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Transcript for 01-03-2015, 1940 lines:

00:00:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113953 @ 0.00040584 = 46.2467 BTC [-] {2}

00:01:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5397 @ 0.00039494 = 2.1315 BTC [-]

00:04:30 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: to round off the earlier thread, house will be confiscated a) ahead of schedule, if you get lucky b) when your local real estate racket's ability to crank out drywall, pour cement, assemble the thing is outpaced by, e.g., flood of $refugees from $pisshole who 'deserve' your house and your neighbour's

00:05:29 asciilifeform: when it becomes a question of physical difficulty in obtaining any other way, or even prior - a symbolic but tasty bone thrown to folks who hate you for what you are - the confiscations.

00:07:11 ben_vulpes: how do rentals fare in this model?

00:07:48 asciilifeform: packed denser, repaired even more seldom, and again denser, and at geometrically climbing cost

00:08:00 ben_vulpes: does the political power du jour really go so far as to entirely alienate the rentiers?

00:09:22 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2015#996757 << obligatory thread

00:09:22 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 04:09:15; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the town where i live is being slowly converted into gigantic sov-style communal flats (officially, 'student housing', in practice - they will live their whole lives therein)

00:09:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the rentiers are swimming 'in chocolate' and happier than could ever wish

00:09:51 asciilifeform: the renters - different story.

00:10:25 ben_vulpes: 'chocolate'?

00:10:48 ben_vulpes: i'm sure there's some fatalistic reasoning against buying property and renting it out in this scenario

00:10:48 asciilifeform: 'gravy' in trad. engl. i think.

00:10:58 ben_vulpes: aha.

00:11:26 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where i live, the rental racket is being rapidly rolled up by mega-conglomerates who specialize in building titanic blocks of communal flats

00:11:29 asciilifeform: literally communal

00:11:36 asciilifeform: (see linked thread)

00:12:11 asciilifeform: just a few hrs ago i drove past a street where they were knocking down, as we speak, sixteen or so blocks of rental houses

00:12:26 asciilifeform: where mega-highrise kommunal flats will be built

00:12:55 asciilifeform: these will be inhabited, incidentally, by chumps feeding the 'college' chumpatron

00:13:31 asciilifeform: (the on-campus housing is packed to the gunnels)

00:14:20 asciilifeform: these folks are being prepared, by the flats far more so than anything in the lecture halls, for how the rest of their lives will be lived.

00:14:32 asciilifeform: if their luck holds.

00:15:11 ben_vulpes: 'komunalki' < hm

00:15:13 ben_vulpes: yeah.

00:15:17 ben_vulpes: see also kibbutz

00:15:21 ben_vulpes: ?

00:15:26 asciilifeform: nah

00:15:43 asciilifeform: kibbutz, kolhoz - had at least a nominal collective purpose

00:15:54 asciilifeform: rather than straight cynical meat warehouse

00:16:08 asciilifeform: the practical difference is that folks -work- at a kolhoz

00:16:17 asciilifeform: not merely park their arses there

00:17:09 gabriel_laddel: Incidentally, a friend of mine from Romania told me a story about what happened to his family's house during the communist revolution: It was seized, concrete was poured on the (expensive hardwood!) floors after it was stripped of any valuables.

00:17:22 gabriel_laddel: Used for communal something-or-other

00:17:44 gabriel_laddel: also the kibbutz is a voluntary arrangement afaik

00:17:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919411

00:17:51 assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 05:31:28; asciilifeform: 'Astolphe de Custine was brought up for a time by a faithful servant, living in penury with her in the only room of the Custine home that had not been looted and sealed off by Jacobin zealots and thieves.'

00:18:15 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: voluntary (nominally) for the adults, yes

00:20:24 asciilifeform: outfits such as 'google', i'm told, are experimenting with bringing back the factory dormitory. which would have a bright future in usa, if there were any factories

00:21:34 gabriel_laddel: the hell that googlers live in now is amusing

00:21:52 asciilifeform: the hell they lived in from day one was always amusing

00:21:55 asciilifeform: from safe distance

00:22:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-04-2014#607098 << relevant classic thread

00:22:51 assbot: Logged on 06-04-2014 05:30:22; asciilifeform: one man's 300k is not the same as another's

00:23:10 gabriel_laddel: hehe yeah

00:24:14 gabriel_laddel: I've listened to my friends talk about their sibling's lives at google. They make (nominally) lots of money, but it all is consumed by the costs of living.

00:25:10 gabriel_laddel: I think this "Stanislav Datskovskiy" guy has the right idea though...

00:25:16 gabriel_laddel: Question for Mr. M:

00:25:16 gabriel_laddel: In an "arbeit macht frei" world, will you - in particular - be permitted to busy yourself with writing unorthodox operating systems - or, for that matter, articles like this one? Or with carving wooden toys?

00:25:16 gabriel_laddel: Who gets to become a "delicate aristocrat," dodging carving duty, and why?

00:25:16 gabriel_laddel: Could we instead ask for concertina wire, mine fields, and automatic turrets separating the human beings - with their robotic plenty - from the zombies, with their decay and hunger for flesh?

00:25:16 gabriel_laddel: Has anyone considered the possibility that the living dead are kept around, safe from the Soilent Green pot, encouraged to be fruitful and multiply, etc. precisely to help make arbeit macht frei ever so slowly more palatable to the remaining humans?

00:25:17 gabriel_laddel: I hope you like carving toys (or demunging databases) for Mr. Altman and his ilk. Because that is what we'll both be doing soon enough. If permitted to live...

00:25:17 gabriel_laddel: "Where do you want to go today?" To a Sharashka or garden-variety GULAG? Largely a matter of taste (and luck.)

00:25:20 gabriel_laddel: from http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/03/sam-altman-is-not-blithering-idiot.html

00:25:21 assbot: Unqualified Reservations: Sam Altman is not a blithering idiot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnlA1X )

00:25:40 asciilifeform: l0l

00:25:57 *: asciilifeform tries to recall what that was about

00:27:25 asciilifeform: incidentally - and i am quite sure that mr mold would disagree - but he went to the precise place where i proclaimed he is doomed to go.

00:27:33 asciilifeform: when his benjie bag ran dry.

00:27:47 gabriel_laddel: the impotent bezzle-lords?

00:27:57 gabriel_laddel: yeah

00:28:03 asciilifeform: more specifically.

00:28:06 gabriel_laddel: urbit it teh lameness

00:28:43 asciilifeform: no more urbit circa '2010, and certainly no 'unqualified reservations', but urbit-flavoured webdev for arseappchatbookville.

00:29:07 gabriel_laddel: "urbit-flavoured webdev" lol where?

00:29:15 asciilifeform: why funded and by whom ?

00:29:33 asciilifeform: watch his film (somebody filmed him pitching at a conference of one kind or another)

00:30:05 asciilifeform: now, no one is at risk for having to do web dev in it

00:30:28 asciilifeform: but as i gather the urbit folks are occupied primarily with pitching just this elaborate scam on the vc circuit

00:30:40 BingoBoingo: reservations http://sexylosers.com/021.html

00:30:41 assbot: #021 - The Strip From Hell ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnmvPY )

00:30:41 asciilifeform: hence precious little time left over for actual work

00:31:01 gabriel_laddel: I don't think it's a scam exactly... what they want is for nothing to change, and he provided it. :/

00:31:02 asciilifeform: (of which, because of the braindamaged design, there is an inexhaustible amount)

00:33:58 gabriel_laddel: "why funded and by whom ?" << I really can't figure this out, it's like the relationship the USG club have with the Saudis. *mumble mumble* ... little boys... *mumble mumble*

00:34:07 asciilifeform: ^

00:34:13 asciilifeform: aka 'merit wash'

00:34:18 gabriel_laddel: The things these VCs fund are simply /strange/

00:34:42 asciilifeform: but also a certain amount of 'sultan has infinite money, why shouldn't he sit down on a toilet of monocrystalline diamond, the costlier and more useless - the better'

00:34:59 asciilifeform: why ru oligarchs buy british sport teams, without giving a damn whether it wins or loses, etc

00:35:22 asciilifeform: see also mircea_popescu's 'tin woman' article.

00:35:29 gabriel_laddel: Eh, perhaps I'm strange, but these things don't tickle me in the right places. Mountains of coke? Fun, surely, but it gets boring after a while...

00:36:07 gabriel_laddel: Also, I /don't like/ the macbook retina, fancy as it may be

00:36:08 asciilifeform: the madness of the terminally bored is key to understanding much of what we spoke of here.

00:36:42 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i recently watched such a machine burst lcd for no discernible reason

00:36:47 asciilifeform: right in front of me

00:37:09 gabriel_laddel: lolol

00:37:11 asciilifeform: apple wouldn't take it back.

00:37:32 asciilifeform: it was roughly 2 wks old.

00:37:33 gabriel_laddel: unsurprising. Mine would get extremely hot for no particular reason.

00:37:56 asciilifeform: another colleague of mine is shipping his back as we speak - kernel panics every 20min or so

00:38:05 gabriel_laddel: hahahahahaa

00:38:14 asciilifeform: and - he'll be given an identical box.

00:38:19 asciilifeform: because what's the alternative.

00:38:20 gabriel_laddel: feminist computing, about as good as feministfim

00:38:24 gabriel_laddel: feminist theater

00:39:02 gabriel_laddel: (I have a $300 compaq that I prefer to any apple crapware - same one as MP iirc)

00:39:22 asciilifeform: link?

00:39:48 gabriel_laddel: http://www.amazon.com/CQ57-439WM-Presario-Dual-Core-Accelerated-Processor/dp/B007DXEOEU

00:39:50 assbot: Amazon.com: Compaq CQ57-439WM 16-Inch Presario Laptop PC (AMD Dual-Core E-300 Accelerated Processor and Windows 7 Home Premium): Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/18abSHy )

00:40:28 asciilifeform: do all the peripherals - incl. gpu and power management module (e.g., suspend-to-ram) function without burping under linux/bsd ?

00:40:46 asciilifeform: can i connect 10,000 x 8,000 of lcd acreage ?

00:40:53 gabriel_laddel: I doubt it.

00:40:55 asciilifeform: ecc ram ?

00:41:05 gabriel_laddel: probably not

00:41:13 asciilifeform: see where this is going ?

00:41:34 asciilifeform: apple plays like monopolist because it -is- a monopoly

00:41:41 asciilifeform: on portable unix box that sorta works

00:42:06 gabriel_laddel: Yes. Someone needs to specify their requirements, then someone else needs to take a trip to china, find suppliers etc. and assemble somthing sane. Like system76, except not for Ubuntu crap

00:42:20 asciilifeform: sane is countereconomic.

00:42:32 gabriel_laddel: Nonsense.

00:42:32 asciilifeform: who's gonna pay the $25K that thing will - inevitably - cost ?

00:43:06 gabriel_laddel: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233532779857997@naggum.net.html

00:43:07 assbot: Re: Upper limits of CL - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnplEL )

00:43:16 gabriel_laddel: ^ you'll remember this

00:43:20 asciilifeform: aha

00:43:50 asciilifeform: or my own 'professional computing' article

00:43:59 gabriel_laddel: sure.

00:44:21 gabriel_laddel: Also, MP gave 20K to openBSD - there are people willing to fund such ventures.

00:44:22 asciilifeform: incidentally, there is apparently a market for diamond-and-gold-encrusted but otherwise ordinary wintel laptops.

00:44:28 asciilifeform: but not professional equipment. go figure.

00:44:34 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: 20k is pocket change

00:44:43 asciilifeform: in hardware biz

00:44:56 gabriel_laddel: I agree. My point is that there is a market.

00:45:07 gabriel_laddel: I'd happily pay 100k for a computer that actual /worked/

00:45:08 asciilifeform: it wouldn't buy a (new) pick'n'place robot, for example, unless you go ultra-chinese

00:46:15 gabriel_laddel: My point with the 20k is that there are individuals who are willing to fund such ventures. Yes, MP hasn't put up 5MM usd for sane computing, but afaik, no one has proposed such a plan to him.

00:46:36 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: problem is, the folks willing to be the 'pioneers with arrows in their back' would each have to pay 100M not 100K for the thing to happen.

00:47:02 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: possibly because i explained to him just what would be involved

00:47:06 gabriel_laddel: I disagree. You want to do this in one fell swoop. There are other ways to go about it.

00:47:17 asciilifeform: and how 5m wouldn't even appear as a droplet of rain in the seven seas.

00:47:40 asciilifeform: this is probably where we are doomed to disagree.

00:47:56 gabriel_laddel: If your goal is to do a chip level restart, one needn't start there, from a business perspective.

00:48:06 gabriel_laddel: And yes, we probably are doomed to disagree.

00:48:13 asciilifeform: i specifically assign the failure of each and every attempt to date with the notion that you can get to the moon by piling chairs.

00:48:58 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: well actually your observation is correct above: the only way to fund such a thing is to be obscenely successful in some entirely unrelated venture.

00:49:19 asciilifeform: so quite right - one needn't (mustn't!) start there.

00:49:26 gabriel_laddel: I'm glad to have communicated that.

00:49:53 asciilifeform: but if that venture relates to computing in any way, you will probably render your brain unfit for the original mission.

00:50:41 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: after putting your brain through x86 etc. you're unable to think non-von neumann?

00:50:46 gabriel_laddel: nonsense.

00:50:50 asciilifeform: no

00:50:57 asciilifeform: more abstract problem

00:51:05 gabriel_laddel: do explain

00:51:13 asciilifeform: when you solve certain kinds of problems long enough, and get good enough at it, you start -liking- it

00:52:03 gabriel_laddel: ! how did I end up doing this?

00:52:14 gabriel_laddel: !s how did I end up doing this?

00:52:15 assbot: 0 results for 'how did I end up doing this?' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=how+did+I+end+up+doing+this%3F

00:52:15 asciilifeform: and no one will undo the 40 yrs of retardation who has reached this state

00:52:29 asciilifeform: must be fueled by burning hatred for the way it all is

00:52:59 BingoBoingo: "Cocaine Induced Brain Atrophy" is the obstacle

00:53:05 gabriel_laddel: my search failed, but I specifically remember you complaining in here about what you currently do. You've been doing this for some time now iirc

00:53:12 asciilifeform: for the 'a-students' who have all the crud memorized unthinkingly and 'are marketable'

00:53:27 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> when you solve certain kinds of problems long enough, and get good enough at it, you start -liking- it << With regard to this

00:53:28 asciilifeform: for the microshit and www stack shit eaters

00:53:28 asciilifeform: etc

00:53:29 gabriel_laddel: also, I've been doing this programming thing for going on 3 years - let me be clear - I /hate/ it.

00:53:37 asciilifeform: keep hating.

00:53:42 gabriel_laddel: cocaine causes your brain to atrophy?

00:53:58 asciilifeform: it lets you know - you're still a man

00:55:02 gabriel_laddel: related to "cocaine" - the only way I can do boring parsing tasks anymore is by drinking enough caffine to get high.

00:55:10 gabriel_laddel: else it is simply far too boring

00:55:25 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: When you make your fortune on stupidity, the cocaine you can afford makes you liek the stupidity

00:55:26 asciilifeform: prepare for the day when the dope doesn't work, the flesh had enough

00:55:44 asciilifeform: ^ goes equally well for king and slave alike

00:56:03 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Could also be called yacht or pile of hookers induced brain atrophy

00:56:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18750 @ 0.00041283 = 7.7406 BTC [+]

00:56:15 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: well yes, c does modify the rewards pathway, but one neednt do it.

00:56:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the next phase of the disease, as i understand, is to 'turn nero'

00:56:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: where do you suppose the legends of moneyed folks hunting bipedal prey in arizona, etc. come from ?

00:57:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Exactly

00:57:09 asciilifeform: milder cases - fund urbits

00:57:54 gabriel_laddel: ^ on the macro scale, far more damaging

00:58:37 asciilifeform: believe or not, this actually happened in past empires

00:58:52 gabriel_laddel: Hunting humans? Of course.

00:58:53 asciilifeform: e.g., turkish eunuch having (decorative, naturally!) harems of their own, complete with... eunuch guards

00:59:10 asciilifeform: speaking of multilevel parasitism here

00:59:14 asciilifeform: hunting - sop

00:59:56 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2015-statement/

01:00:10 cazalla: damn, you scooped that instantly scoopbot

01:04:45 gabriel_laddel: Vaguely related to the conversation above, I'm hoping for a war sometime soon - they are a good way to go about separating content from nonsense. Von N., Teller, etc. wouldn't have been able to work on the atomic bomb without the various powers that be helping out.

01:04:54 gabriel_laddel: I suspect we won't have to wait long.

01:04:59 gabriel_laddel: Vaguely related:

01:05:10 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: check your time machine settings. you've arrived at the wrong war

01:05:16 gabriel_laddel: Only a crisis - actual or perceived - produces real change. when that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. that I belive is our basic function: to develop altenatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable.

01:05:17 gabriel_laddel: -- Milton Friedman

01:05:23 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: how so?

01:05:43 asciilifeform: this one is gonna be short on manhattan project and long on amulets issued to the cannon fodder that 'ward off bullets with the power of jizzus'

01:05:53 asciilifeform: a la iran-iraq war

01:05:59 asciilifeform: or boko haram.

01:06:44 gabriel_laddel: nah, those who invest in voodoo will get slaughtered by those who enact the plan you voiced on Mr. M's blog.

01:07:05 asciilifeform: it'll be voodoo + 50 yrs. of accumulated modern arms

01:07:58 asciilifeform: presently tested against designated foreign 'orcs' (what do you suppose urban battallions in iraq was a dress rehearsal for ?)

01:08:16 *: gabriel_laddel is not entirely sure how things will play out, but MF's prescription is really the only available option

01:08:24 BingoBoingo: Yesterday's linked megalol re: video voodoo is related

01:08:29 gabriel_laddel: in any case, I don't plan to be around for it

01:08:42 asciilifeform: pointing out that the voodoo will be the wunderwaffen of choice for a hypothetical 'berlin '45' usg, rather than wunderwaffen

01:08:57 asciilifeform: (of the working hardware kind)

01:09:50 asciilifeform: not having an intelligence agency of my own, i regard it as an open question just how usg might behave should it ever begin to lose

01:10:09 asciilifeform: right now (see earlier thread) 'fat' is embezzled. what of when 'meat' is ?

01:10:47 asciilifeform: say, today there's a 'quadra tracker' for every five or six working portable mass-spec products, what if the proportion were reversed ?

01:11:20 asciilifeform: what if, as in mircea_popescu's gedankenexperiment, usg were unable to resupply its men on schedule ?

01:11:33 asciilifeform: then - we learn what the 'b plan' is.

01:11:48 asciilifeform: my guess - quite like the soviet 'b plan'

01:12:05 asciilifeform: consisting of a buncha newly minted retirees in the swiss alps

01:12:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036409 << speaking of the entire "deserve your house', the fema experiments in st louis were a complete success.

01:12:21 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:04:30; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: to round off the earlier thread, house will be confiscated a) ahead of schedule, if you get lucky b) when your local real estate racket's ability to crank out drywall, pour cement, assemble the thing is outpaced by, e.g., flood of $refugees from $pisshole who 'deserve' your house and your neighbour's

01:13:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's nothing whatever optional about these "plans". they're not plans in the normal sense, moar like, "what is the plan b of yonder artificial lake, once dykes fail ?"

01:13:20 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: sov. plan b >> http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Gorbachev-and-Pete-Mercedes-560-SEL.png (left hand. gorby on a very well-known d.c. street.)

01:13:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1E471Ed )

01:13:32 mircea_popescu: us has been run on the path of least resistance since at least the 60s

01:13:46 gabriel_laddel: I will note for those reading, Argentina's orcs look the part.

01:14:00 gabriel_laddel: perhaps mircea_popescu will expound on the situation there?

01:14:03 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how so ?

01:14:28 mircea_popescu: ahaha that pete mercedes pic. dude looks like a total stoner paratrooper.

01:14:33 mircea_popescu: "i have come to liberate the buds man!"

01:14:37 asciilifeform: l0l

01:15:03 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: local political situation (are the orcs known as such?), number of useful nuclear engineers to take care of the two reactors you've got etc.

01:15:19 mircea_popescu: actually this was in log, lemme see.

01:15:24 asciilifeform: "what is the plan b of yonder artificial lake, once dykes fail ?" << 'what should one do when a shell lands in the trench ?' -- 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around.' (brit., circa ww1)

01:16:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-01-2015#985095

01:16:50 assbot: Logged on 20-01-2015 23:17:04; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, it's clarified some things for me. i live within blocks of the center of all "manifestations" "public meetings" and so forth. there's on average two a week of these. they're not all political, but the political ones seemed quite suspect to me

01:16:55 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel ^ that entire discussion

01:18:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ar has ru-style 'meetings' ? i.e. crowds of folks with prefab picket signs, paid chump change to wave around ?

01:18:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036423 << ironically, the decay contains its own cure. there is literally nothing better for your average redditard than a forced communal living situation.

01:18:23 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:11:29; asciilifeform: literally communal

01:18:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. and they're all colored.

01:18:56 mircea_popescu: (argentina is moar racist than 1850s charleston, you gotta be white.)

01:19:04 gabriel_laddel: sounds like home

01:19:46 mircea_popescu: not aryan white, either. dat vampire look, darkhaired goldilocks

01:20:08 asciilifeform: wai wat

01:20:44 mircea_popescu: yes.

01:21:13 gabriel_laddel: http://imgur.com/zwz0KnY << does this quality? I've not heard of this "darkhaired goldilocks" before...

01:21:14 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1E48M4t )

01:21:14 mircea_popescu: i fully expect they elect 15yo christina ricci as the next president.

01:21:29 BingoBoingo: !b 5

01:21:30 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/00SWTGT.txt )

01:21:47 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel mebbe.

01:22:31 mircea_popescu: is that you ?

01:22:41 gabriel_laddel: yeah

01:22:54 mircea_popescu: all teh cute doods are in b-a i swear.

01:23:01 gabriel_laddel: :)

01:23:17 asciilifeform: lol i thought it was pete_dushenski

01:23:34 mircea_popescu: fwiw, i thought you were like 50.

01:23:43 gabriel_laddel: me?

01:23:45 gabriel_laddel: why?

01:24:58 mircea_popescu: you sound ancient, whadda ya want from me

01:25:05 gabriel_laddel: lolk.

01:25:24 *: asciilifeform used to routinely get flames which presumed old age

01:25:32 *: asciilifeform never fully understood why

01:26:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036462 << yeah, he is.

01:26:02 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:25:20; gabriel_laddel: from http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/03/sam-altman-is-not-blithering-idiot.html

01:26:13 mircea_popescu: sam altman is the exact equivalent of britni spears.

01:26:17 punkman: asciilifeform: because you were shouting "get off my lawn" at them?

01:26:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you also sound ancient.

01:26:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: with the difference (see earlier in this thread) being that spears does not operate a multilevel mmmatron for cranking out copies of self

01:26:52 gabriel_laddel: That sam altman is a fuckwit isn't in contention amongst those in here.

01:26:55 mircea_popescu: yes, actually, she does.

01:27:00 asciilifeform: her handlers - yes, do

01:27:03 asciilifeform: spears ?

01:27:11 mircea_popescu: spears, altman, both, identically, on all scores.

01:27:13 mircea_popescu: minus the tits.

01:27:30 gabriel_laddel: He has people run their grubby little fingers through all HN comments, and they warn people who are too "right-wing"

01:27:31 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i'm not certain that he's a fuckwit; could also be scum that knows precisely what he's doing

01:27:43 mircea_popescu: spears thought she "recorded records", altman thinks he "made reddit gain more users than hn has in total"

01:27:47 mircea_popescu: exactly the same thing

01:28:26 asciilifeform: but - a hitler, or just a lowly feldfebel ?

01:28:28 gabriel_laddel: Even if he knows what he is doing, still a fuckwit. Everyone knows the story of the scorpion and the monk, right?

01:28:32 mircea_popescu: a britni spears.

01:29:32 mircea_popescu: "the most elitest minds of a society"

01:29:37 mircea_popescu: you know this guy is retarded.

01:29:53 mircea_popescu: srsly, the most elistest minds OF A SOCIETY ?

01:30:00 asciilifeform: or employs a monkey to write 'his' communique

01:30:15 asciilifeform: if good enough for potus,...

01:30:37 *: mircea_popescu pictures asciilifeform in bed with a woman he picked up earlier in metro. she goes "oh honey, that was SO FUCKING GREAT!" he goes "or maybe i wasn't even in!"

01:30:59 gabriel_laddel: lol

01:31:03 asciilifeform: 'that was the depth gauge, silly'

01:32:03 asciilifeform: (for readers not zoologically-inclined: herr altman is paul graham's right-hand man / catamite)

01:32:28 asciilifeform: presently running the pg lulzatron as crown prince

01:32:37 mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : http://oglaf.com/rally/

01:32:38 assbot: Rally 'round the white flag ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYGFEE )

01:34:42 mircea_popescu: remarkably on point.

01:34:55 asciilifeform: http://www.psywarrior.com/PassRebuttalF.jpg

01:34:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYHjSw )

01:35:33 asciilifeform: ^ spoof, afaik

01:35:39 asciilifeform: http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/001/015/930/606_002.jpg?v=1 << example of the real thing

01:35:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYHwVI )

01:36:25 asciilifeform: http://www.psywarrior.com/GermanSCP.html

01:36:27 assbot: Standard Allied Safe Conduct Passes of WWII ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYHL31 )

01:37:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036486 << it's called vc circus for a reason.

01:37:04 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:34:18; gabriel_laddel: The things these VCs fund are simply /strange/

01:37:23 mircea_popescu: now where's that trrilema article i want to reference. the one pointing out this entire vc thing is old guys dating.

01:37:39 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: do you have pointers to any information about Uncle Al's roach repellent other than mailing list / forum posts and the patent?

01:37:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00041283 = 20.6002 BTC [+]

01:38:05 gabriel_laddel: also, any more information on the Chinese run?

01:39:19 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/

01:39:19 assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1E4c5bQ )

01:39:48 mircea_popescu: "That'd be your VC circuit : a bunch of old men who have no time to spend with their actual children. They claim this is because "they have to work", but in fact it's because a) they're afraid of their actual children and b) their actual children hate and despise them, in no particular order. This in turn because they've failed to live, as an actual act in this world, and impose their existence upon those children, so

01:39:48 mircea_popescu: that everyone may be happy. Instead everyone's frustrated."

01:39:51 mircea_popescu: shit yeah. tyvm

01:40:32 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/#identifier_1_52654 win of all time.

01:40:32 assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1E4cknk )

01:41:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036529 << cargo society.

01:41:15 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:44:28; asciilifeform: but not professional equipment. go figure.

01:41:29 mircea_popescu: in africa there's a market for gold encrusted trabant, not so much for an actulaly good car.

01:42:14 gabriel_laddel: "This in turn because they've failed to live, as an actual act in this world, and impose their existence upon those children,so that everyone may be happy. Instead everyone's frustrated."

01:42:41 gabriel_laddel: this is exactly correct. PG, for example, sees me coding in a coffee shop, is there with his kid.

01:42:59 gabriel_laddel: he then tries to convince the kid that they should go home and code instead of answering the kids questions

01:43:05 mircea_popescu: nuts.

01:43:48 mircea_popescu: the situation where i never had children yet understand more of parenting than all these people with children depending on them is about as alarming as the situation where i'd not be a woman but know more about fucking than all women. what a shitworld!

01:45:40 gabriel_laddel: I might as well explicate my thoughts on the matter, perhaps I'll learn something from someone else who has thought about it.

01:45:58 gabriel_laddel: If your kid is asking question - answer them. They'll arrive at coding and mathematics by themselves.

01:46:24 gabriel_laddel: The reason these things are interesting is becuase they exist independently of us, they're unavoidable.

01:46:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036553 << you know, just because hunters wear animal skins doesn't mean they're furry animals.

01:46:34 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:51:13; asciilifeform: when you solve certain kinds of problems long enough, and get good enough at it, you start -liking- it

01:46:56 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel if you got a purpose in mind, you need a tool not a child.

01:47:11 mircea_popescu: you ever read the discussion wit hthe slaves re the dead rabbit ?

01:47:26 gabriel_laddel: as to why you killed it and not a wolf?

01:47:30 gabriel_laddel: yeah

01:47:46 mircea_popescu: that one. important part there being about understanding the animal is an animal, which is a category of things to be.

01:48:01 mircea_popescu: liek teh child. in this sense, children are animals. not "people" in the sense of, "just like me".

01:48:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55495 @ 0.00041036 = 22.7729 BTC [-]

01:48:23 mircea_popescu: but anyway, do go on.

01:49:37 gabriel_laddel: I've nothing else to say. Your grasshopper article coupled with the rabbits exposition covers it all. Don't try and make things into that which they are not. And if you have a kid, care for /them as an individual/. Your life is over. Make way for the next generation.

01:49:58 gabriel_laddel: Incidentally this is what Sean Parker's father did, and Sean is one of the coolest Silly con valley people

01:50:21 mircea_popescu: which the fuck is the grasshopper article

01:50:29 gabriel_laddel: /s/grasshopper/dragonfly

01:50:54 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ ?

01:50:55 assbot: The complexity of life, a triad pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYLopK )

01:52:08 gabriel_laddel: nope. The one where you detailed your relationship with your father

01:52:22 gabriel_laddel: "he refused to stop living"

01:53:25 mircea_popescu: ah

01:55:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036593 << certainly an apt description ofwhat we're doing here.

01:55:00 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 01:05:16; gabriel_laddel: Only a crisis - actual or perceived - produces real change. when that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. that I belive is our basic function: to develop altenatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable.

01:55:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036601 << you will notice the imperial mooks got utterly owned in that play

01:55:40 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 01:07:58; asciilifeform: presently tested against designated foreign 'orcs' (what do you suppose urban battallions in iraq was a dress rehearsal for ?)

01:56:16 decimation: point of interest - on youtube one can easily obtain copies of the vienna philharmonic new year's concert (neujahrskonzert). it's clear that it is broadcast all over europe, yet I have never heard of it being broadcast in the us

01:56:33 gabriel_laddel: btw, I was using the word "mooc" the other day, and I think you read it as "mook". I meant "MOOC" as in "massively open online course"

01:56:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036608 << fwiw, the merging of those two ideas yields a pretty powerful metaphor. i've been considering it since you mentioned it first, earlier.

01:56:46 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 01:10:09; asciilifeform: right now (see earlier thread) 'fat' is embezzled. what of when 'meat' is ?

01:56:49 decimation: apparently this is one artifact of the divorce between england and the 'continent'

01:57:01 mircea_popescu: decimation it's a big deal in yurp

01:57:10 mircea_popescu: civilised people tend to play it for xmas.

01:57:16 decimation: right, which is why it amazes me that it's unheard of in the us

01:57:18 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel no i got that.

01:57:35 mircea_popescu: coursera et al.

01:57:56 gabriel_laddel: kk

01:59:14 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1123/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 25.00350855 BTC. Current weight: 83,568.

02:05:38 gabriel_laddel: http://fraudsters.com/2014/how-i-was-wrong-cuckolding-or-a-story-about-sigmas/

02:05:39 assbot: How I was wrong : Cuckolding, or a story about sigmas pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYPfmE )

02:06:36 decimation: asciilifeform: another colleague of mine is shipping his back as we speak - kernel panics every 20min or so << I'm convinced that the 'gpu issue' happens on even more recent macbooks

02:06:54 decimation: apple assumes that you don't need to use your computer to compute, so it isn't designed for sustained levels of cpu-pegging

02:07:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10255 @ 0.00041036 = 4.2082 BTC [-]

02:10:47 decimation: asciilifeform: not having an intelligence agency of my own, i regard it as an open question just how usg might behave should it ever begin to lose < My prediction is 'descent into regional civil war'

02:37:17 ben_vulpes: "failed to live...and impose their existence upon those children" << i'm a bit confused about the "give up, make way for the next generation" attitude when put next to the "parents should impose their existence upon their children".

02:41:44 *: mod6 is caught up

02:42:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14515 @ 0.00039494 = 5.7326 BTC [-]

02:45:23 mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034915 << we still need to have this talk, indeed. I haven't forgotten :]

02:45:23 assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:54:23; asciilifeform: with regards to 0.5.3, i was expecting to see some technical discussion re: total rework of the blockchain sync mechanism and its idiocies, but this didn't happen

03:00:47 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes tis complicated.

03:32:17 cazalla: anyone know if i'm missing any from the list? http://i.imgur.com/CFu2wJZ.png just using alexa as one metric, will find others for use in comparison each month going

03:32:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zOPv1R )

03:33:05 cazalla: oops, forget to remove tardstalk from that one (have a longer list with other non news sites)

03:51:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42546 @ 0.00040542 = 17.249 BTC [+]

04:02:38 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: any more information on the Chinese run << of al's e?tv?s experiment ? just some private correspondence, where he confirms the same story told on usenet

04:02:49 asciilifeform: (i have no reason not to believe him)

04:03:20 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: ditto the roach repellent

04:03:54 asciilifeform: though i have not tried it personally, nor do i know enough about roaches to say if there are nuances not accounted for

04:05:13 asciilifeform: (i did work through a good chunk of the maths behind al's e?tv?s adventures, for own edification and to attempt to come up with a way to rescue him - to learn how that went, see old thread)

04:08:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you will notice the imperial mooks got utterly owned in that play << afaik usg accomplished their one non-negotiable thing in iraq - break the orcs into eternally-warring bantustans, 'vaccinate' against any possible emergence of a real sovereign

04:09:33 asciilifeform: plus they churned inventory, the real immediate purpose of all usg .mil maneuvers

04:10:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the merging of those two ideas yields a pretty powerful metaphor. << let's have the ps0t, yes. looking forward to reading it

04:11:30 asciilifeform: decimation: the 'gpu issue' happens on even more recent macbooks << it's been a thing ever since the mandatory switch to pb-free

04:11:43 gabriel_laddel: (for the record, I've not run the numbers on Schwartz's experiment yet, don't know for sure yet that it is valid, but can say that yes, everything he says is falsifiable and yes, everyone who say "he is a crank" etc. is a lying scumbag for not pointing out the exact sentence where he missteps. EG: http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/7757/weak-equivalence-principle-tests in which a "string theorist" knowingly

04:11:44 assbot: parity - Weak equivalence principle tests - Physics Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1AI8MGd )

04:11:44 gabriel_laddel: glosses over the whole point of the experiment, which he would know if he has read it)

04:11:55 asciilifeform: decimation: it is quite possibly impractical to make bga (ball grid array) ic packages without pb

04:12:00 asciilifeform: but they insist on it anyway

04:13:08 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: let's put it this way. the theoretical work gives very specific - numeric - predictions

04:13:13 asciilifeform: that could easily be tested.

04:13:33 gabriel_laddel: yep.

04:13:47 gabriel_laddel: that should be clear to anyone reading it

04:14:06 gabriel_laddel: I'm not going to claim to know that the math works out unless I do it myself though

04:14:24 asciilifeform: 'For example, Newton's apple contains vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) which is parity-asymmetric, and it would accelerate differently if the laws of gravity cared about the mirror images.' << lying scum, yes. implying that effect cannot exist because not observable with naked eye on naturally-occurring objects

04:14:55 asciilifeform: whereas all kinds of bullshit, which cannot be observed anywhere, ever, even in principle - is entirely real to a 'string theorist.'

04:15:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00040538 = 6.6888 BTC [-]

04:16:45 asciilifeform: physics - as a discipline - is 99+% tumour, with scarcely any patient tissue remaining

04:16:53 asciilifeform: of the ordinary sort

04:17:13 gabriel_laddel: reality will do a backtracking branch cut soon enough

04:17:17 gabriel_laddel: we just have to wait

04:17:24 asciilifeform: all tumours eventually stop growing...

04:18:38 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: btw, do you know any category theory?

04:19:00 asciilifeform: only the very basics.

04:20:06 gabriel_laddel: it seem to me that they're not doing the obvious, which bothers me somewhat.

04:20:23 asciilifeform: the experiment ?

04:20:25 asciilifeform: well, yes.

04:20:36 asciilifeform: if they did it, someone, somewhere, might dig up the fella who actually invented it

04:21:08 gabriel_laddel: nah, the obvious, in the case of category theory: Sucking up all the mathematics ever via some OCR routines and categorizing it via computer. Have an intern write a parser for latex -> ast

04:21:11 asciilifeform: the whole affair went on in its current form far too long for the usual dance of the buggers - 'pretend it never happened' - to go as does

04:21:18 *: asciilifeform head-desks

04:22:11 gabriel_laddel: my basic understanding of category theory is that there are interesting things that can be derived when you break down basic mathematics into some abstractions such as functors, mappings etc.

04:22:36 asciilifeform: 1) ocr doesn't work because 99.99% is still ludicrously low - human reader -who fully understands the text- still required 2) no ocr exists or is reasonably likely to ever exist for anything rich in notation 3) the machine-readability of most mathematical work is a fully ai-complete problem

04:23:30 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if you're thinking of a human-cranked systematization project, straight to doug lenat's 'cyc' (i'll spoil it for you: it was stillborn)

04:23:49 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: this is exactly what I was thinking of

04:24:04 gabriel_laddel: well, I've not looked at cyc yet, but thanks for the pointer.

04:24:12 asciilifeform: !s cyc

04:24:13 assbot: 6 results for 'cyc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cyc

04:24:19 *: gabriel_laddel hand-cranked systematization is exactly what I had in mind

04:24:52 asciilifeform: the politics of cyc etc. aside, such projects are about as interesting as the historical proposals to go to the moon in balloons, shooting men from cannons, etc.

04:25:04 asciilifeform: fact is, we haven't actually built computers yet

04:25:16 mircea_popescu: cazalla alexa's pretty clueless fwiw.

04:25:26 asciilifeform: any more than montgolfier brothers had 'aviation'

04:26:08 cazalla: mircea_popescu, yeah but at least it is clueless to each site equally on the list

04:26:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nonsense. the middle east always was enternally-warring. this is like husband stuck with a bad divorce, "at least i made her into a slut"

04:26:16 mircea_popescu: mno.

04:26:34 asciilifeform: iraq had (past tense, note) army, industry, economy

04:26:39 asciilifeform: now has soup

04:27:27 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel string theorists are a lot like freudian psychanalists. the better ones follow the lieberman line.

04:27:29 mircea_popescu: the rest...

04:28:37 mircea_popescu: cazalla no, it's not.

04:30:07 mircea_popescu: think of it in terms of throwing bowling balls at a tree from outer space. you won't get within a mile. and if the first ball lands 735`331meters rom the tree, the next five won't land 735`331 meters from the next five threes.

04:30:23 mircea_popescu: trees*

04:30:58 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> that could easily be tested. << not easily, no. but yes, they could be.

04:31:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i devised a test costing approximately 50k usd.

04:31:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: al ended up having to explain to me... well, the concept i outlined in the first thread re: this subject here in #b-a

04:31:38 asciilifeform: regarding provenance.

04:31:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108600 @ 0.00040512 = 43.996 BTC [-] {3}

04:31:45 mircea_popescu: exactly.

04:32:03 mircea_popescu: and that ftr is a valid objection.

04:32:28 asciilifeform: (most of the 50k, in case anyone cares, covers two well-used microcalorimeters.)

04:33:10 mircea_popescu: incidentally, in the ideal model which sits at the fundament of us academia, this would have been arranged over a phone call and tried the next week.

04:33:12 mircea_popescu: for free.

04:33:18 asciilifeform: it was a perfectly valid objection, which is why the experiment will not happen publicly on this side of the coming civilizational demolition.

04:33:19 mircea_popescu: and ironically, it's the environment i grew up in.

04:33:43 asciilifeform: i actually worked with a number of folks at the time who were ready to wangle access to the instruments for me.

04:33:52 asciilifeform: but al didn't want to pursue

04:34:10 mircea_popescu: why not ?

04:34:25 asciilifeform: well, he would have had to blow a rather expensive single-use wad

04:34:55 mircea_popescu: um ?

04:37:07 mircea_popescu: re alexa : last time i measured their accuracy, it came out to about 96% error rating. ie, if alexa reads 100, it can see anything between 4 and 2500.

04:37:31 asciilifeform: synthetic crystal of two chiral isomers of $censored that would have, according to the model, very small difference in energy of phase change

04:37:54 asciilifeform: in a way not accounted for by any previously known effect

04:38:26 mircea_popescu: i don't get it. he didn't want the experiment made in the end ?

04:38:45 asciilifeform: he understood that it wasn't free

04:39:18 asciilifeform: that is, that a failure for any number of reasons unrelated to the physical prediction - such as my hands growing out of my arse - would set him back (if such a thing were possible) years

04:40:15 asciilifeform: anyone who wants to know what was going through his head - write to him! i don't relish playing 'broken telephone'

04:40:23 asciilifeform: and the man can speak for himself, and really ought to

04:41:17 *: thestringpuller refreshes contravex

04:41:54 pete_dushenski: ;)

04:42:52 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu stoner paratrooper << fighters have a lot of relaxing to do!

04:45:43 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/01/the-asylum-has-its-moments/

04:45:44 assbot: The asylum has its moments. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17H8NP6 )

04:45:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun follow this logic.

04:47:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it made sense to me. 'the lysenkoists refuse to even try' is bad enough, but 'see, somebody tried, it failed, shuddup' is quite possibly worse

04:48:13 asciilifeform: so if trying, has to be the 'full nine yards'

04:48:22 mircea_popescu: why does he care about implication footsie game ?

04:48:24 asciilifeform: rather than some kid and ratty old instruments from us army

04:48:30 mircea_popescu: no, it doesn't. if you try, you gotta try.

04:49:08 asciilifeform: iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all

04:49:16 mircea_popescu: check it out, the web2.0 is being useful : http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Footsie

04:49:17 assbot: How to Play Footsie: 5 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbvOY2 )

04:49:27 mircea_popescu: i hope you're changing the world, schmuckos!

04:50:44 gabriel_laddel: iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all << this makes a great deal of sense

04:51:09 mircea_popescu: this can't be a rationale not to try.

04:51:25 asciilifeform: basically he insisted that a negative result must come from one of the two eotvos torsion balances

04:51:27 gabriel_laddel: he isn't giving up, as far as I know, but biding his time

04:51:46 asciilifeform: as i gather, he's engaged in a contest of who-dies-first with adelberger

04:51:52 mircea_popescu: "biding his time" ?

04:51:56 asciilifeform: see above

04:51:59 mircea_popescu: suppose i go make the measurement myself ?

04:52:05 mircea_popescu: not like it's tied to his forehead.

04:52:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i confess, i almost decided to

04:52:16 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: how would i learn to play footsie if not via a wikihow article?

04:52:20 asciilifeform: might do it still

04:52:24 asciilifeform: if ever get out of here alive

04:52:26 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the opposition lie through their teeth at every given moment, you don't want to give them anything to work with

04:52:30 mircea_popescu: this is science not politics, what's biding your time do.

04:52:39 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel this is not how it works.

04:53:02 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: did you read the stackoverflow post linked above?

04:53:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00039163 = 2.9764 BTC [-]

04:53:10 mircea_popescu: i confess i did not. why would it matter ?

04:53:15 mircea_popescu: science has no opposition.

04:53:48 gabriel_laddel: lemme finish making this burrito and I'll write up something on the game being played

04:54:27 mircea_popescu: my empanadas are made already.

04:55:50 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller makes you wonder how children were made before they invented shoes.

04:56:58 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: I thought you know storks and stuff...

04:57:15 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/chiral.jpg << pet critter holding my [6.6]chiralane.

04:57:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17H9F6w )

04:57:19 asciilifeform: from those das

04:57:22 asciilifeform: *days

04:58:10 asciilifeform: (whazzat? http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.paper.SCS.2008-4nS.petitjean.pdf << original paper, schwartz & petitjean - they co-invented it)

04:58:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17H9HeH )

04:58:34 asciilifeform: phun phact, it broke the definition of 'chirality' taught in schoolbooks

04:58:56 asciilifeform: had 'handedness' but no 'chiral centers' - that is, carbon atoms that are topologically 'key'

04:59:15 asciilifeform: that is, each carbon has -exactly the same thing- on all four bonds

04:59:15 mircea_popescu: what's in the middle, sulphur ?

04:59:25 asciilifeform: all c

04:59:38 asciilifeform: well, outer h'es not shown

04:59:44 asciilifeform: (as they typically aren't on a model)

04:59:59 mircea_popescu: but the big ball in teh centre

05:00:14 asciilifeform: fat carbon for clarity

05:00:16 asciilifeform: l0l

05:00:24 asciilifeform: yeah everybody asks about fat carbon

05:00:29 asciilifeform: everyone i ever showed it to

05:01:06 mircea_popescu: a lol k

05:02:59 asciilifeform: actually my explanation is off, the center is topologically unique. but the thing meets none of the ochem textbook graph-theoretical definitions for chirality

05:03:11 asciilifeform: but is optically non-superimposable on its mirror image

05:03:46 asciilifeform: and, incidentally, there are other chiralanes possible (you can generate them as computer model, that is. there is, afaik, no known synthesis for any of them)

05:04:32 asciilifeform: anyone who still gives a damn - read the paper.

05:05:09 asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/chiral2.gif http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/schwart3.png << for those who can do 'crosseye'

05:05:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytkp )

05:05:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytku )

05:05:51 asciilifeform: and o hey

05:05:51 asciilifeform: http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771

05:05:52 assbot: organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbyBAs )

05:05:58 asciilifeform: al's still kicking.

05:06:19 gabriel_laddel: What Al would like to test is pretty simple. Is gravity mirror-symmetric? If it is, then you can drop two stereoisomers in a vacuum, and they'll fall at the same rate. We don't know that this is the case, and the universe actually violates mirror-symmetry on many scales. Perhaps a violation will be observable.

05:06:22 gabriel_laddel: But you have to test it.

05:06:34 ben_vulpes: (people can't do "crosseye"?)

05:07:17 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the interesting thing, and important to explain mircea_popescu's puzzlement, is that the enemy has been studiously arranging experiments to avoid actually testing the effect in question and declaring it 'settled'

05:07:26 asciilifeform: or rather, the question of nonexistence as 'settled'

05:07:28 mircea_popescu: eh get out already.

05:07:33 asciilifeform: seriously

05:07:33 mircea_popescu: "the enemy" coudl as well be in korea.

05:07:52 gabriel_laddel: The Eot-wash group won't test this. And the string theorist in that stackoverflow question is more than happy to state that because a large construction of molecules falls at the speed we expect it to, it couldn't possibly happen on a small scale.

05:07:55 asciilifeform: they proclaimed 'settled' after 'carefully testing' left- and right-handed machine screws in a torsion balance

05:07:59 gabriel_laddel: which is obviously horse shit

05:08:00 asciilifeform: and failing to find difference

05:08:17 asciilifeform: lysenko lives

05:08:27 gabriel_laddel: left and right handed machine screws != chirality !11!

05:08:34 gabriel_laddel: but the grant funding people don't know this

05:09:07 mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue.

05:09:24 mircea_popescu: we're not discussing why some other blokes aren't testing it, we're discussing why the proponent isn't.

05:09:26 asciilifeform: the actual matter here is 'what's one physical effect vs hundred thousand respectable careers of respectable people (tm)'

05:09:37 mircea_popescu: and the proponent can't be doing or not doing "because of other people" (tm)

05:10:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he thought (as of our last at-length exchange, ~3 yrs or so) that he still had a chance to make the torsion balance owners see the light

05:10:48 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue. << Oh, but it is. These people are prepared to lie at every turn. See the stack overflow post, or the output of the Eot-wash group. If Al or Stan were make a mistake in the run, they'd never be able to test it again.

05:11:17 gabriel_laddel: check this out http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/

05:11:18 assbot: HOME | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbzEAt )

05:11:19 asciilifeform: incidentally, he mentioned that other folks also offered to arrange, and he held off for same reason

05:11:25 gabriel_laddel: "1) Search for experimental signs of quantum gravity that violate Einstein's Equivalence Principle and/or the Newtonian inverse-square law."

05:11:29 gabriel_laddel: fuckwads

05:11:47 asciilifeform: aha see they are only interested in finding effect predicted by the usg-sponsored paper machine

05:11:57 asciilifeform: if it doesn't exist, they'd rather not turn up anything

05:12:11 asciilifeform: and certainly not a 'crackpot'-predicted boojum

05:12:22 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel exactly why not lol ?

05:12:26 asciilifeform: the legitimacy of the whole shebang is at stake

05:12:35 gabriel_laddel: As far as I can tell, it comes down to the basic strategic necessity of killing your enemy when you indend to.

05:12:43 mircea_popescu: ...

05:12:53 gabriel_laddel: If you're not strong enough now, retreat, lick your wounds and then strike when the time is right.

05:12:57 mircea_popescu: i never heard of this bizarro shamanistic approach to research.

05:13:06 mircea_popescu: the shit's hard enough without waiting for complex voodoo to allign.

05:13:11 gabriel_laddel: !s cognitive dissonance

05:13:12 assbot: 13 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance

05:13:25 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-11-2014#937006

05:13:25 assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 15:36:04; mircea_popescu: no wonder everyone in the us needs a college degree. there's no way native intelligence could deal with a tenth of the cognitive dissonance dished out on a daily basis.

05:13:35 mircea_popescu: just measure the damned thing. if it doesn't come out, either refine the machinery or give up.

05:13:36 gabriel_laddel: the US is fucking nuts right now. you live in a bubble of sanity

05:13:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's gedankenexperiment. say we build the thing and it runs as predicted (see the last chemistry.stackexchange link for what we'd be doing, roughly)

05:13:42 mircea_popescu: if it does come out, put it on your blog and move on.

05:13:46 asciilifeform: then what

05:13:48 mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares what anyone else does ?

05:14:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's it.

05:14:24 asciilifeform: al doesn't, as i understand, agree. he wants it to keep walking from there

05:14:31 asciilifeform: which takes a few $b in imperial money

05:14:37 mircea_popescu: you will notice that the scam foundation is being fucking buried. in spite of... welll... consensus.

05:14:43 mircea_popescu: this shit only works if you buy into it.

05:15:41 mircea_popescu: all this nonsense of little girl stuck on the trans side of maturity river, discussing whether she wants to cross or not, what if the cis side won't be all that it's cracked up to be etc. wtf.

05:15:44 mircea_popescu: maturity is not optional.

05:15:49 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: walk where? wants grant money for himself as a result of the discovery?

05:16:04 asciilifeform: have the thing pursued

05:16:20 mircea_popescu: well it's certainly closer to being pursued after being measured than before eh.

05:16:23 asciilifeform: see if effect can be had somewhere -left- of the eigth decimal

05:16:27 asciilifeform: for actual practical uses

05:16:31 asciilifeform: (we discussed some)

05:17:10 mircea_popescu: imagine! "i won't accidentally discover clorophorm unless it can be used as an anesthetic!"

05:17:49 mircea_popescu: this meta cancer upon the modern brain. people spend so much time considering "the implications" of shit that never happened they have no energy left to do stuff.

05:17:51 asciilifeform: what if chlorophorm cost what the 'difference engine' cost.

05:18:10 mircea_popescu: i suppose it's time to do a kickstarter.

05:18:16 asciilifeform: l0l

05:21:17 *: mircea_popescu links http://fraudsters.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ here, and then proceeds to quote from http://fraudsters.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/

05:21:18 assbot: Causes and purposes pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBiC4 )

05:21:19 assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBkdf )

05:21:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought you had a handle on the 'provenance' thing - that is, that al doesn't win unless his opponents actually lose by their own rules and surrender by their own free hand

05:21:34 mircea_popescu: "This flat, unyielding ignorance-as-the-forerunner-of-oblivion is both perfectly safev and exactly the adequate pill for the poison in dicussion, because it expends very little productive effort on the part of the productive members of society, while at the same time forcing upon the unproductive the exact Gordian knot they've been trying to talk their way around (and plenty, no doubt, hoped they had succeeded). That k

05:21:34 mircea_popescu: not is of course practice, which is to say : if I were to declare I am ignoring "all that Einstein jazz", all physics penned after 1900 or so, and then built a cathodic tube television that worked just fine without accounting for quantum effects, the trashing and bashing of Einstein fans would be all in vain : I'll just shrug my shoulders, keep building and selling my television sets and care not on whit of whatever th

05:21:35 mircea_popescu: ey may write."

05:21:53 asciilifeform: that is, if one day we simply exterminate them, he still hasn't really won, just sat down in lysenko's throne

05:21:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing keeps him from forking chemistry tho.

05:22:10 gabriel_laddel: !s lab nigger

05:22:10 assbot: 2 results for 'lab nigger' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lab+nigger

05:22:27 asciilifeform: al actually spent years battling idiots who 'forked physics' and 'forked chemistry' on usenet, in much the same style as mpoe-pr battled btc sc4mz0rz

05:22:41 asciilifeform: it isn't really a concept he finds digestible

05:22:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a fundamental difference between lysenko (nutter whose shit DIDNT WORK) and this (if it works)

05:22:53 gabriel_laddel: Not as easy as it sounds. Life is finite, as exemplified by MP not reading Al's experiment spec, and Al not being MP

05:23:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look, irrespective of all that : he can just do the thing.

05:23:10 asciilifeform: except if the difference only becomes palpable a few $b and decades later, it does't really exist to the naked eye

05:23:19 mircea_popescu: so /

05:23:28 mircea_popescu: it is still a material step that way.

05:23:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the conclusive test requires the torsion rotor

05:24:20 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: would you mind explaining the exact logistics of the equipment you'd need to put together to run the experiment?

05:24:34 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there were two proposed experiments.

05:24:44 gabriel_laddel: so as to demonstrate exactly why it isn't as easy as "just measure the thing"

05:24:48 asciilifeform: the one i very nearly ended up participating in, is described (roughly) in earlier link

05:25:04 asciilifeform: http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771

05:25:05 assbot: organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc1SN )

05:25:25 asciilifeform: or actually

05:25:32 asciilifeform: only the feedstock is described therein

05:26:13 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm#a5

05:26:14 assbot: PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc4OA )

05:26:49 asciilifeform: see vi. parity calorimetry experiment

05:27:15 asciilifeform: section 'VIII. Parity Molecular Rotors' was my demented suggestion

05:27:50 asciilifeform: (suitably poured into the mold of the physically practical by al's expert hands)

05:28:22 asciilifeform: notice specific predicted divergence in microwave spectrogram.

05:28:42 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel the problem isn't exactly of the equipment. the problem is that if you make new equipment, you don't know if you're measuring the new equipment vs the old equipment or an actual effect.

05:29:29 asciilifeform: remember http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846621 ?

05:29:29 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'

05:29:41 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I don't know the cost associated with calibrating these instruments and can't speak to the truth of that

05:29:50 asciilifeform: essentially, according to 'neutral' folks in physics, al simply doesn't -get to- make the instrument

05:29:56 mircea_popescu: well you asked as to the logisticsa.

05:29:58 asciilifeform: it doesn't count if it's his

05:30:03 asciilifeform: or, at this point, mine

05:30:05 asciilifeform: or mircea_popescu's

05:30:19 asciilifeform: in order for it to 'count' - yes, we have to 'fork physics'

05:30:27 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: well, I was asking Stan specifically becuase he could supply detailed information as to costs and political constraints

05:30:43 gabriel_laddel: which you have hand-waved away

05:30:47 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i can only speak re: the costs of the component which i was to wangle time on

05:31:18 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: well, as the resident expert, would you mind expounding on these costs?

05:31:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a thought : if al spent the past five years measuring things rather than skulking, he'd be in a much better position todasy than five years ago.

05:31:23 gabriel_laddel: just so we have a sense?

05:31:24 mircea_popescu: ya kno ?

05:31:27 asciilifeform: incidentally, iirc i also suggested use of microbolometer (aka infrared camera chip die) as a cheapo version of microcalorimeter

05:31:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he operates under constraints quite similar to mine

05:31:48 asciilifeform: that is, works in jungle conditions

05:32:01 mircea_popescu: yeah, wellllll....

05:32:03 asciilifeform: i even marvel that he managed to grow the benzil crystal without going to jail

05:32:42 mircea_popescu: why would he go to jail ?

05:32:57 mircea_popescu: i grew permanganate crystals, at least that's a meth precurso.

05:32:59 asciilifeform: unlicensed possession of glassware, caustics, 'drug precursors', ...

05:33:11 gabriel_laddel: intent to manufacture...

05:33:22 decimation: asciilifeform: it seems the polarization version of the experiment would be much easier to set up

05:33:32 mircea_popescu: !up kyuupichan

05:33:42 mircea_popescu: eh get out.

05:33:47 kyuupichan: Hello, bitbet is stuck on the blockchain.

05:33:52 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ?

05:34:03 asciilifeform: !

05:34:12 kyuupichan: Once it catches up please review submitted bets.

05:34:38 kyuupichan: thx

05:34:42 mircea_popescu: if thjey got rejected you'll prolly have to resubmit.

05:35:20 kyuupichan: Got rejected as no zeroconf but they were, so either reconsider or refund, but at the moment as you think zero was sent you won't be refunding anything right?

05:35:57 mircea_popescu: it'll refund once it catches up im sure.

05:37:31 kyuupichan: Perhaps site needs an alarm where e.g. it's compared vs blockchain.info or blockr.io?

05:38:03 mircea_popescu: this might be an idea.

05:42:27 asciilifeform: 'A money-losing economy, like a money-losing restaurant, sucks. It sucks in all kinds of ways that have no apparent connection to finance. The entire dining experience is grim. This, indeed, is the experience of the entire "old economy" outside the little bubbles of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. My in-laws live in Columbus. Columbus sucks. Even with Chairman Ben's 85-billion-a-month bond-buying "recovery." It is more

05:42:27 asciilifeform: and more palpably a Soviet restaurant.'

05:42:34 asciilifeform: ^ from mr mold's old post, dropped here for the record

05:43:10 gabriel_laddel: why?

05:43:18 asciilifeform: his problem, like al's, is quite arguably: that he hasn't fully accepted death yet.

05:43:45 asciilifeform: and so tries to carve some corner for himself in the shadow of the seemingly-invincible thousand-year reich

05:43:49 gabriel_laddel: Ah. I'd like to point out that Al, unlike Mr. M has done useful work in the interim.

05:44:02 asciilifeform: what al does in his cellar, only the devil knows

05:44:25 gabriel_laddel: From what I could tell, from reading his usenet posts, he continues to work at Occidental research corp.

05:44:43 asciilifeform: i'll point out that publishing -everything- one does is generally a habit of mediocrities desperate for attention

05:44:45 mircea_popescu: the soviet restaurant thing is quite palpable here in argentina.

05:44:52 mircea_popescu: the places where usians go ? shit service, shit food.

05:45:01 mircea_popescu: the rest of the city ? great service, great food.

05:45:08 *: asciilifeform doesn't publicize so much as a fraction of a percent of what he spends time on

05:45:12 mircea_popescu: it's almost as if they deliberately constructed a home away from home, these people.

05:45:17 asciilifeform: (same probably for everyone here)

05:45:27 mircea_popescu: i can't tell you how many times i've stormed out of a shithole, inexplicable in context.

05:45:32 mircea_popescu: mthreat saw a few instances.

05:46:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the observation that usa tends to 'follow' the expats wherever they happen to congregate en masse, is an old one

05:46:27 mircea_popescu: there's even a chain of HORRIBLE icecream. in this town, that has the best icecream i have ever tasted, by a long shot, and abundantly supplied by numerous artisanal gelaterias

05:46:28 asciilifeform: fred 'fred on everything' reed mentioned it in his books

05:46:35 mircea_popescu: the usians have a fucktarded chain selling the worst goop.

05:47:21 asciilifeform: my brain melted the first time i learned that many folks in usa can't really make themselves eat actual food

05:47:33 asciilifeform: and only feel the least bit comfortable eating the recycled kind

05:48:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, now tell me this : how does teh ussa follow teh expat masse ? shadow fuhrer directs it ?

05:48:47 decimation: I had a similar experience when I went to italy on holiday

05:48:53 mircea_popescu: or is it just, like the gestapo, simply the only shared figment of their infertile imaginations ?

05:49:00 asciilifeform: there's a great ru line from, i think, 'dog's heart'

05:49:26 asciilifeform: something like 'decay isn't this old witch who walks around, it's you and i having bad aim and missing the pisser'

05:49:38 decimation: in the major italian tourist cities, the 'inner ring' around the tourist sites are full of restraunts that are obvious chumpatrons targeting usians and germans

05:49:53 mircea_popescu: there's fruit, and it's grandiose. then there's "fruit", imported by supermarkets for the usian market. you can get quite startling contrasts by buying in both.

05:50:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Что вы подразумеваете под этим словом? […] Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый

05:50:30 asciilifeform: вечер, начну у себя в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, р

05:50:31 asciilifeform: азруха не в клозетах, а в головах. Значит, когда эти баритоны кричат «бей разруху!» — Я смеюсь. […] Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! И вот, когда он вылупит из себя всякие галлюцинации и

05:50:36 asciilifeform: займется чисткой сараев — прямым своим делом, — разруха исчезнет сама собой. Двум богам служить нельзя! Невозможно в одно время подметать трамвайные пути и устраивать судьбы каких-то испанских оборванцев! Это никому не удается, докто

05:50:40 mircea_popescu: o.O

05:50:41 asciilifeform: р, и тем более — людям, которые, вообще отстав в развитии от европейцев лет на 200, до сих пор еще не совсем уверенно застегивают свои собственные штаны!'

05:50:49 mircea_popescu: you'll get docked for spam!

05:50:55 decimation: mircea_popescu: I assume you saw this article http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/21/a-feast-of-engineering-whats-really-in-your-food

05:50:57 assbot: Inside the food industry: the surprising truth about what you eat | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/17HedcY )

05:51:02 asciilifeform: i suppose i gotta translate it now

05:51:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50099 @ 0.00039606 = 19.8422 BTC [+] {3}

05:51:16 decimation: "The strapline for a product called Butter Buds®, described by its makers as “an enzyme-modified encapsulated butter flavour that has as much as 400 times the flavour intensity of butter”, sums it up in six words: “When technology meets nature, you save.”"

05:51:19 asciilifeform: problem is, 'разруха' doesn't translate.

05:51:24 mircea_popescu: decimation i think it was here. i didn't care to check it out.

05:51:35 decimation: it's as depressing as you would think

05:51:48 asciilifeform: approx. 'ruin' but also shades of 'decay', 'decline', general civilizational degringolade

05:52:50 decimation: "Over the past few years, the food industry has embarked on an operation it dubs “clean label”, with the goal of removing the most glaring industrial ingredients and additives, replacing them with substitutes that sound altogether more benign." "If you noticed that it contained an amino acid such as L-cysteine E910, your enthusiasm might wane, especially if you happen to know that this additive can be derived from animal and human

05:52:51 decimation: hair. But a range of new-wave yeast extracts is increasingly replacing E910. "

05:52:52 mircea_popescu: decimation there's a reason i don't live in "civilised" shitholes. i can taste their "feasts of engineering".

05:53:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, everything in that world devolves to spam, it's one and only true mother.

05:53:35 decimation: new! "contains" "natural" "ingredients"!! it's profitable for us and "ok" for you

05:53:42 mircea_popescu: "labels limit the shitification of food ? SPAM THEM!"

05:53:51 mircea_popescu: money prevents us from being stupid ? SPAM IT!

05:54:02 mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing the west ever does is, "try and spam it!"

05:54:27 mircea_popescu: somehow the world should be impressed with this "progress", much in the manner parents should be impressed with "look, no hands!"

05:54:47 decimation: it smacks of 'all voice, no exit'

05:55:09 mircea_popescu: not to mention the "all metaconsiderations, no agency"

05:55:20 mircea_popescu: prolly the same exact fundamental.

05:55:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tLsXBtS9 << passable 'pro' translation

05:55:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17HeAUV )

05:55:45 asciilifeform: not mine

05:56:00 decimation: yeah in fact the reason the us succeeded as it were for the first hundred years was because there was much empty virgin territory, so people could 'express agency'

05:56:07 mircea_popescu: the story of individual america is basically one line : "there's no difference between the rich man and the poor man who hasn't yet decided what to buy".

05:56:30 mircea_popescu: as if. but somehow, a billion idiots picked this bit of shoeshiner's philosophy as their foundational line.

05:58:47 mircea_popescu: lettuce all sit forever and ponder the implications of asking the girl out, of measuring the fucking crystals, of spitting on the ant.

05:59:05 mircea_popescu: draw up the entire putative history eight nine steps removed in all directions, till the night comes and we go home.

06:00:14 *: asciilifeform still thinks the crystal thing made perfect sense in light of protagonist not being ready to 'fork physics'

06:01:05 mircea_popescu: better men later on.

06:01:27 mircea_popescu: but it's inescapable. everything's getting forked. gpg, linux, the world.

06:02:37 asciilifeform: we, in spite of the sweat required, are the lucky fellas.

06:02:52 asciilifeform: because don't need, at least for most of that list, $maxint

06:03:23 asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ?

06:03:37 asciilifeform: build out of scrap iron in cellar ?

06:04:38 asciilifeform: it is also not entirely clear to me where the 'better men' are to get the $b

06:04:55 asciilifeform: and why they might like to throw it into a strongly -ev pit

06:05:31 asciilifeform: fact is, 'basic science' is -ev when viewed through the lens of a typical human lifespan

06:05:50 gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"

06:06:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151550 @ 0.00041401 = 62.7432 BTC [+] {2}

06:08:38 decimation: asciilifeform: "-ev" < it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'

06:09:13 decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research

06:10:08 gabriel_laddel: nein nein nein nein!

06:10:15 asciilifeform: any who are inclined, as mircea_popescu seems to be, to think that 'any idea can be tested and developed in your cellar' should study the history of semiconductor

06:10:16 gabriel_laddel: ;; google John Von Numann

06:10:17 gribble: John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann; John von Neumann | Institute for Advanced Study: https://www.ias.edu/people/vonneumann; History of Computing Science: John von Neumann: http://www.eingang.org/Lecture/neumann.html

06:10:30 asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product

06:10:40 gabriel_laddel: ;; google manhattan project

06:10:41 gribble: Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project; The Manhattan Project [ushistory.org]: http://www.ushistory.org/us/51f.asp; Manhattan Project | United States history | Encyclopedia Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/362098/Manhattan-Project

06:10:43 gabriel_laddel: ;; google symbolics inc

06:10:44 gribble: Symbolics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics; Symbolics.com : The first and oldest registered domain name on the ...: http://symbolics.com/; Symbolics, Inc.: http://www.symbolics-dks.com/

06:11:03 gabriel_laddel: ;; google Leonardo Da Vinci

06:11:04 gribble: Leonardo da Vinci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci; Leonardo da Vinci - Biography - Writer, Mathematician, Inventor ...: http://www.biography.com/people/leonardo-da-vinci-40396; Leonardo Da Vinci - The complete works: http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/

06:11:21 gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo

06:11:42 gabriel_laddel: and countless derps before that

06:11:48 decimation: gabriel_laddel: who was the 'herri seldon' who foresaw the development of leonardo?

06:12:09 decimation: er, 'hari seldon'

06:12:55 gabriel_laddel: decimation: afaik, no one predicted leonardo, but there were three generations of masters preceding him. He learned from their works

06:13:09 gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random"

06:13:16 gabriel_laddel: nor because of "cranks"

06:14:14 decimation: but the earlier masters couldn't have predicted the results of their erudition

06:14:20 gabriel_laddel: of course not

06:14:26 gabriel_laddel: but that doesn't make it random

06:14:45 gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?

06:15:11 gabriel_laddel: we know sorta-kinda how it is going to function, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised

06:15:12 decimation: I'm not using the word 'random' to mean 'acausal'

06:15:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#548254 << obligatory thread re: cranks

06:15:23 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 23:06:12; asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another)

06:15:53 asciilifeform: 'crank' in this context is really anyone who 'forks science' and ends up an army-of-one

06:16:08 asciilifeform: happily chugging along on his lonesome blockchain

06:16:16 asciilifeform: (or not so happily, as the case may be)

06:16:19 decimation: sometimes this happens in unconnected pairs

06:25:12 *: ben_vulpes checks to see if a > 1mb block is floating around

06:26:26 gabriel_laddel: and sometimes it happens through e.g., MIT, Stanford, library of Alexandria, Manhattan Project

06:26:35 gabriel_laddel: "it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'"

06:26:48 gabriel_laddel: ^ I don't see that this is true.

06:26:53 decimation: what 'basic science' did the manhattan project advance?

06:27:22 gabriel_laddel: the effective use of computing machines iirc

06:27:51 gabriel_laddel: (is this 'basic science'? What is basic science?)

06:28:42 gabriel_laddel: (conceptually basic, atoms and the like, or basic in the sense of a starting point that is eventually abandoned, e.g., alchemy)

06:28:50 gabriel_laddel: is that science?

06:29:22 asciilifeform: basic in the sense of maximally distant from applications.

06:29:32 asciilifeform: e.g., boolean algebra in the lifetime of g. boole.

06:29:58 asciilifeform: in the same sense as the base of a tower is the point maximally far from its tip.

06:30:13 asciilifeform: and on which the rest of the tower - stands.

06:30:24 gabriel_laddel: http://rin.io/

06:30:25 assbot: math is art | "Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else." — Grothendieck ... ( http://bit.ly/1DF4iA9 )

06:30:30 gabriel_laddel: ^ here is a blog I've not gotten around to reading yet

06:30:43 gabriel_laddel: this girl was given 100k by Pete Thiel to think.

06:30:59 gabriel_laddel: she is doing category theory and physics research.

06:31:26 gabriel_laddel: Does this qualify? will she produce anything of interest? I don't yet know.

06:31:54 gabriel_laddel: Christopher Olah, Thiel fellow. Does research on conv. neural networks.

06:31:57 gabriel_laddel: is this basic science?

06:31:58 asciilifeform: he also funded mr mold's crap.

06:32:23 gabriel_laddel: and?

06:32:26 asciilifeform: 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush

06:33:01 decimation: it seems to me that basic science is something that is only obvious in distant hindsight

06:33:16 gabriel_laddel: my point is that this is an organized effort

06:33:30 gabriel_laddel: and organized effords have existed in the past

06:33:42 gabriel_laddel: they will exist in the future, assuming we don't end up glassing the whole planet

06:34:10 gabriel_laddel: 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-02-2015#1035968

06:34:10 assbot: Logged on 28-02-2015 04:19:51; mircea_popescu: if you ask the slut, often enough it's because "he's the only one that asked, and i was getting bored"

06:34:14 asciilifeform: in that sense, the ubiquitous state lottery is also 'organized effort'

06:34:41 asciilifeform: thus far i know of no particular reason why thiel picked the folks he did

06:35:01 gabriel_laddel: (he is attempting to fund basic science)

06:35:05 asciilifeform: except for a vague 'flavour' of 'up&coming young'

06:35:22 asciilifeform: and he is, in that sense, continuing the tradition of the equally boring 'mcarthur prize'

06:36:07 gabriel_laddel: I'm not saying that I beneficiary agree with Thiel's funding decisions, but I am pointing out that there are people attempting to fund basic science, and that there are two specific people I've cited who can be vetted for their contributions.

06:36:12 asciilifeform: (can you name, off the top of your head, a single person who was given the prize - which is intended to set promising young thinkers free from workslavery) who amounted to anything ?

06:36:30 gabriel_laddel: Christopher Olah

06:36:35 asciilifeform: no idea who that was

06:36:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? <<< i thought it was 50k.

06:37:00 asciilifeform: 50k for the might-work calorimetric variant

06:37:12 decimation: so did the swiss patent office 'organize' to advance physics by paying einstein in exchange for clerk-serfdom?

06:37:18 gabriel_laddel: http://colah.github.io/archive.html

06:37:19 assbot: Archives - colah's blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNXZNa )

06:37:22 asciilifeform: decimation: no because serfdom

06:37:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, i'm not proposing anyone's obliged to follow any particular flight of fancy.

06:37:47 mircea_popescu: but the proposition that one shouldn't or understandably wouldn't for it may turn out to be just fancy... that's nonsense.

06:37:57 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: and to what does that thing amount ?

06:38:04 mircea_popescu: this is the very stuff of life, following our flights of fancy.

06:38:07 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: what would we lose if it never happened

06:38:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did try to convince the fella.

06:38:44 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: well, in Chris's case, some research on neural networks

06:38:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall.

06:38:56 gabriel_laddel: In Rin's case, idk yet

06:39:48 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i confess that thiel's experiment would be considerably more interesting if it were 100m not 100k

06:39:49 mircea_popescu: incidentally... olah is kinda how hungarians say romanian.

06:39:54 mircea_popescu: corruption of valah

06:40:21 asciilifeform: 100k buys half a garage where i live

06:40:27 gabriel_laddel: A summary of my points. 1) there are some people attempting to fund basic science 2) I don't agree with all of their funding decisions 3) this isn't the first instance of this occuring in history

06:40:30 asciilifeform: and two garages in alaska

06:40:55 asciilifeform: but then he'd actually need a proper heuristic for choosing his 'soldiers'

06:40:56 mircea_popescu: but thiel wants web2.0 not a new nuke.

06:41:00 asciilifeform: and he hasn't a prayer, and knows it

06:41:08 gabriel_laddel: 4) perhaps the fault lies with those attempting to peruse basic science, for not giving him a heuristic

06:41:13 mircea_popescu: specifically for that reason, yes.

06:41:31 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: find someone whose heuristic isn't 'give it to -me-'

06:41:35 asciilifeform: and then talk to thiel

06:42:00 mircea_popescu: lol

06:42:03 asciilifeform: i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage

06:42:23 asciilifeform: 'why should -this- piece of shit get 100k to enjoy life, while i sit on this stake...'

06:42:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037139 << of course. meanwhile the last attempt by some other kids to pretend this is the case just imploded ?

06:42:33 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:05:50; gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"

06:42:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the idea wasn't that, but to educate thiel so he's less of a schmuck.

06:43:04 gabriel_laddel: ^ yup

06:43:04 mircea_popescu: people with money they don't know what to do with are the very definition of schmuckdom

06:43:33 asciilifeform: i'm not certain that it is possible to give him a heuristic good enough that he can ditch 'r-strategy' and go with 'k-strategy', to use the zoologist's terms

06:43:37 gabriel_laddel: if you watch thiels videos in particular you can see that he wants to fund interesting things but doesn't know how

06:43:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037142 << this is necessarily true, it directly flows from the definitions of the words you use.

06:43:43 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:09:13; decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research

06:44:18 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel or what they are. or how to look for them. essentially he's a girl that'd like to fuck but never heard of clothes, or make-up or going out.

06:44:32 gabriel_laddel: lol I know

06:44:33 mircea_popescu: thiel the nubile savage.

06:44:38 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he's stuck relying on 'legitimate' communities of 'domain experts' and is doomed to never see anything of genuine interest, which is 100% on crank islands

06:45:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude gtfo, nobody said management is required to be illiterate.

06:45:08 gabriel_laddel: Eh, I read his startup notes, he has a brain.

06:45:15 gabriel_laddel: and uses it

06:45:19 mircea_popescu: but not an education.

06:45:52 gabriel_laddel: it remains to be seen if he'll grok bitcoin. if he does, he'll probably end up funding interesting things.

06:45:52 *: mircea_popescu quotes newman :

06:46:02 mircea_popescu: "the education which gives a man a clear conscious view of his own opinions and judgments, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant."

06:46:10 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: think of how you, yourself, came upon al schwartz's thing

06:46:19 gabriel_laddel: yes?

06:46:21 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: was it by speaking with 'legit' physicists ?

06:46:29 gabriel_laddel: No.

06:46:34 *: mircea_popescu gleefully notices how alf is now using the "you yourself" device.

06:46:36 asciilifeform: or with anyone to whom they might give the time of day?

06:46:42 gabriel_laddel: Nope.

06:46:52 asciilifeform: it was by hanging with sewer rats

06:46:53 gabriel_laddel: lemme find the video

06:46:59 gabriel_laddel: one sec

06:47:02 asciilifeform: brown, grizzled, with monstrous teeth, no ?

06:47:10 mircea_popescu: in this line : "oh mp must be insane to spend all his time on irc, if i was rich i'd do [???]".

06:47:12 asciilifeform: would thiel read, e.g., my site ?

06:47:22 asciilifeform: for all the platinum-iridium toilet in the world ?

06:47:26 gabriel_laddel: he might

06:47:34 asciilifeform: nope. and you can take that to the bank

06:47:43 gabriel_laddel: and you know this how?

06:47:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the matter with it, you writing with different letters or something ?

06:48:27 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel, mircea_popescu: simply pointing out that most fiat 'barons' are more like herr buffett than mircea_popescu

06:48:42 mircea_popescu: but not for any structural reason, is the important point.

06:48:57 asciilifeform: for the structural reason of preferring their familiar private kitchens to a sewer hatchway

06:49:03 asciilifeform: that leads to hell knows where

06:49:04 mircea_popescu: whether most women in x population are more like californians or saudis has nothing to do wit ha cunt being a cunt.

06:49:06 asciilifeform: and smells funny

06:49:13 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage << a good eighth of my time is spent talking smart young guys down out of a shartup-inspired rage attack

06:49:20 gabriel_laddel: Youtube doesn't have grep, and I'm not going to troll through all these videos to find the one I'm thinking of. In any case, in one of them he states that "scientists have been replaced with baccarats" and that "MOOCs are not going anywhere"

06:49:40 gabriel_laddel: vaguely related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFVsVnczYqY

06:49:42 assbot: Peter Thiel Was Right - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNYvux )

06:49:47 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's pretty "disruptive" alright, huh. "what are we disrupting ?" "the moral fiber of society"

06:50:17 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel actually moocs are the superlative american college.

06:50:29 gabriel_laddel: baccarats -> bureaucrats

06:50:41 *: ben_vulpes goes to buy a bottle of wine to fuel the ruby rage

06:50:43 *: asciilifeform was actually trying to picture casino game

06:51:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037154 << i have my doubts about this "productive" perspective.

06:51:00 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:11:21; gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo

06:51:17 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i appreciated your point about hating programming recently

06:51:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gabriel_laddel i just parsed it as "a weird way to say mountebanks"

06:51:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm not even fully certain if i hate only programming specifically or work in general

06:51:51 gabriel_laddel: 06:54 << becuase american college sucks

06:52:11 mircea_popescu: well... because it's "universal". once no kid's left behind, the boat's not sailing anywhere.

06:52:25 mircea_popescu: the very fucking point of academia is to sail away.

06:52:42 gabriel_laddel: Yep. Which is my point. Thiel has detected this.

06:52:47 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: thiel's spewing trendisms to work your hindbrain

06:52:49 gabriel_laddel: Is he here in #b-a? No.

06:52:51 ben_vulpes: work requires only energy.

06:53:00 ben_vulpes: programming requires obscene mental contortions.

06:53:14 ben_vulpes: oh and dealing with the output of people who "like it".

06:53:15 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: if he was spewing trendisms he'd be /supporting/ the MOOCs

06:53:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was speaking of work in the economic sense rather than physical

06:53:26 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel there are two threads here. one is "thiel is dumb". this is not being entertained. the other is, "thiel's uneducated". this is my position.

06:53:34 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he's selective re: which trendisms to employ

06:53:38 asciilifeform: so as to work your hindbrain.

06:54:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll add a third

06:54:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037147 << if memory serves industrial productness was no part of the discussion.

06:54:07 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:10:30; asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product

06:54:16 asciilifeform: which is that herr thiel is operating on an understanding with the folks who allow him to exist

06:54:22 mircea_popescu: we're at the "known for a long time" hurdle yet.

06:54:27 asciilifeform: that precludes certain things, and requires others

06:54:36 mircea_popescu: that's a null hypothesis.

06:54:57 mircea_popescu: for instance i said null hypothesis as part of a deal with my brain to allow me to continue to exist.

06:55:05 asciilifeform: lol!

06:55:26 asciilifeform: let's make it concrete

06:55:30 mircea_popescu: (by nh i mean, a statement which has no content)

06:55:44 asciilifeform: what do you suppose would happen if herr thiel decided to pump every penny he had into buying btc ?

06:55:53 asciilifeform: how far would he get before 'having problems'

06:56:02 mircea_popescu: indefinitely far.

06:56:15 asciilifeform: would the folks who can zero his bank balance by pressing a button, let btc climb to 100k usd ?

06:56:25 mircea_popescu: in your craziest models you don't have a hitler lizard tribe capable to handle such sudden bends of activity.

06:56:27 asciilifeform: or use a ten cent bullet

06:56:32 gabriel_laddel: WE DONT KNOW

06:57:09 mircea_popescu: what you describe is a what, 3 sigma event ? there's not a plan in place for two sigma events even. banal shit like "they used plane as rocket"

06:57:34 asciilifeform: this is more along the lines of the mircea_popescu article where 'buffett is not actually rich because his dollars can't be sent to isis'

06:57:45 asciilifeform: ^ which is entirely true, imho

06:58:07 mircea_popescu: so far my bitcoins are getting sent to the btc bears lol.

06:59:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever would happen would come as a surprise to everyone, including in no particular order : a) the people running btc-usd exchanges ; b) you ; c) the friendly usg log reader delegate ; d) isabelle boring or w/e her name is ; etc

07:00:04 mircea_popescu: what WAS that chick's name ?

07:00:13 asciilifeform: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, ^ the bears inevitably get the coin unless a fully bitcoinized supply chain materializes for mircea_popescu and others to use

07:00:29 mircea_popescu: ;;google boring miss florida congressional aide made a derpy "bitcoin chamber of commerce"

07:00:30 gribble: No matches found.

07:00:34 mircea_popescu: sigh.

07:00:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i meant the berkshire bet.

07:00:49 asciilifeform: ah

07:01:20 *: asciilifeform confesses that he wondered if the purpose of that bet was not necessarily to win, but to soften a target

07:01:32 asciilifeform: that is, to exhaust the resources of folks tasked with arranging mircea_popescu losing it

07:02:00 mircea_popescu: https://bitcoinpresscenter.org/presslist-filtered/spoken-arabic << this shit's so lulzy.

07:02:02 assbot: Bitcoin Press Center | A global media center for bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zP24tZ )

07:02:16 mircea_popescu: and wtf is "rooteleven.com" anyway

07:02:44 asciilifeform: ;;calc sqrt(11)

07:02:45 gribble: 3.31662479036

07:02:53 asciilifeform: ^ it

07:03:43 gabriel_laddel: 10:37 - who is that with Thiel, could it be the evil racist Charles Murray?

07:03:58 gabriel_laddel: debating on the /same side/?!?!?!

07:04:26 gabriel_laddel: That's not respectable at all!

07:04:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the intelligence vs education thing. i wish i had words to express my meaning in intelligible english. let's try by saying that a good mark of one's education is what sort of thing he fills his space with.

07:04:37 *: asciilifeform won't give a damn if thiel appears with watson and putin also

07:04:46 mircea_popescu: "but honey, you can't marry this guy. his parents have no library in the house!"

07:05:48 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: this is, as far as I can tell, roughly the equivalent of reading your blog.

07:06:02 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: lol nope.

07:06:19 gabriel_laddel: ?

07:06:22 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you don't need to open a sewer hatchway to get to herr murray

07:06:26 asciilifeform: or watson, or putin

07:06:36 mircea_popescu: Charles Murray, 1st Earl of Dunmore ?!

07:06:40 mircea_popescu: what murray is this ?

07:06:45 asciilifeform: they're mainstream 'guiding lights', albeit - in the degenerate anglo world, with a 'minus' sign

07:07:07 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(political_scientist)

07:07:09 assbot: Charles Murray (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZ33v )

07:07:09 asciilifeform: nah the other one

07:07:12 asciilifeform: aha him

07:07:24 mircea_popescu: "Charles Alan Murray (born 1943) is an American paleoconservative and paleolibertarian leaning political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit."

07:07:31 mircea_popescu: what's "paleo" mean in wikipedia ?

07:07:41 mircea_popescu: he doesn't eat bread with conservatives ?

07:08:16 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so wait, would visiting e.g., Schwartz qualify for "stepping into the sewer"

07:08:25 asciilifeform: it would

07:08:44 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: try to see the pattern here

07:08:50 decimation: mircea_popescu: roughly, 'conservative' in america today means 'republican', which also means 'pro-state'

07:08:54 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I gotcha

07:09:04 gabriel_laddel: finally.

07:09:05 mircea_popescu: so paleo is anti-state ?

07:09:18 decimation: not exactly, but he wouldn't be invited to any parties at cpac

07:09:31 mircea_popescu: do words have any meanings whatsoever anymore ?

07:09:38 mircea_popescu: THIS is a fine example of what i fucking mean by educated.

07:09:39 asciilifeform: murray put his hands firmly on the 'third rail' in usa

07:09:43 mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter how intelligent us kids are.

07:09:50 mircea_popescu: in that cesspool they can't be anything but louts.

07:10:05 decimation: mircea_popescu: modern us politics is a sandpile built upon equivocation

07:10:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you need a full body containment suit just to survive as a thinking man here.

07:10:14 mircea_popescu: as opposed to what, finance ?

07:10:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: preferably with closed filtration cycle

07:10:26 mircea_popescu: or to wha texactly. erotica ?

07:11:03 mircea_popescu: what part of english as a single language ISNT perpetual and universally equivocal synonymy

07:11:35 mircea_popescu: Murray's Law:

07:11:35 mircea_popescu: 1. The Law of Imperfect Selection: Any objective rule that defines eligibility for a social transfer program will irrationally exclude some persons.

07:11:35 mircea_popescu: 2. The Law of Unintended Rewards: Any social transfer increases the net value of being in the condition that prompted the transfer.

07:11:35 mircea_popescu: 3. The Law of Net Harm: The less likely it is that the unwanted behavior will change voluntarily, the more likely it is that a program to induce change will cause net harm.

07:11:38 mircea_popescu: ok, that much makes sense.

07:11:59 mircea_popescu: no idea why this'd be "murray's law", but at least i see something.

07:12:38 gabriel_laddel: !s cognitive dissonance

07:12:39 assbot: 16 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance

07:12:44 gabriel_laddel: the US is fucking insane

07:13:07 mircea_popescu: 1. Any rule applied uniformly over a group with a view to some purpose will result in measurable contradiction of the purpose before it results in measurable achievement of the purpose.

07:13:08 gabriel_laddel: people try codifying common sense to make it more palatable - doesn't work

07:13:13 decimation: generally, my understanding is that 'paleoconservatives' want to wind us society back to something resembling the 'cis-democracy' in that moldbug peice

07:13:15 mircea_popescu: 2 is good as is.

07:13:25 mircea_popescu: 3. too.

07:13:27 mircea_popescu: cool.

07:14:13 mircea_popescu: for the record, the earl dunmore was pretty cool too.

07:14:55 decimation: one of murray's books advanced the idea that the ruling us elite were cutting asunder all social mores and strictures that bound the masses

07:15:13 mircea_popescu: i dun think this is controversial.

07:15:29 asciilifeform: one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them

07:15:34 decimation: while they silently keep those mores alive amoung themselves

07:15:54 asciilifeform: and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot

07:16:10 asciilifeform: mr mold once confessed that he might like an 'islamization pill'

07:16:20 decimation: george will sort of fits that description

07:17:03 asciilifeform: i, (in my mental card catalogue, naturally) call this 'the green pill'

07:17:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically they yearn to be women.

07:17:13 asciilifeform: adjunct to blue & red already in the pharmacy we know

07:17:25 asciilifeform: (green for the colour of the prophet's banner, naturally!)

07:17:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it

07:17:37 decimation: oh, murray also co-authored 'the bell curve'

07:17:48 decimation: which controversially asserted that jews were smarter than blacks

07:18:03 mircea_popescu: how did the ets do ?

07:18:22 asciilifeform: based, iirc, on longitudinal (that is, lifetime progress) study of children, esp. adopted cross-ethnically at birth

07:18:36 asciilifeform: the conclusions of which, interestingly, none of the establishment types bothered to attack directly

07:18:39 asciilifeform: because it was bulletproof

07:18:51 *: gabriel_laddel *gasp*

07:18:53 asciilifeform: instead they had to declare murry a public enemy and 'hitler'

07:18:54 decimation: no, but they strongly 'taught the controversy'

07:18:57 asciilifeform: aha

07:19:18 mircea_popescu: how many children ?

07:21:04 asciilifeform: ~13,000

07:21:07 asciilifeform: iirc

07:21:25 mircea_popescu: almost respectable.

07:21:37 mircea_popescu: i was all prepared to hear 300 and say "rubbish"

07:21:47 asciilifeform: it wasn't rubbish.

07:22:01 asciilifeform: that's why the solid wall of bullshit built around the subject by usg

07:22:09 asciilifeform: almost impenetrable by the idly curious

07:22:53 mircea_popescu: ftr, i dun actually credit the race/intelligence theory. not that i have strong feelings either way

07:22:56 asciilifeform: visit a university library; 'bell curve' is a little brick, the 'refutations' - a book case and climbing

07:23:09 mircea_popescu: but the whole thing strikes me like an attempt to establish a link between female beauty and hair color.

07:23:21 decimation: one datapoint "“The NLSY, administered in 1980 to by far the largest sample (6,502 whites, 3,022 blacks) in a national study, found a difference of 1.21 standard deviations on the AFQT.”"

07:23:58 decimation: AFQT means 'armed forces qualifying test'

07:24:03 mircea_popescu: if iq tests worked we'd have usable software.

07:24:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can work without being any more than 'dismal science'

07:24:20 asciilifeform: that tells you just how fucked you are

07:24:27 gabriel_laddel: if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. << see symbolics inc

07:24:28 mircea_popescu: wait wut !?

07:24:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i gather, intelligence is only slightly heritable, but stupidity - is very

07:24:58 mircea_popescu: lol.

07:25:27 mircea_popescu: intelligence, in a strict sense of whatever, bus speed ? bus width ? ram ? cpu cycles ? frequency of parity errors ?

07:25:29 asciilifeform: as are a thousand mental dysfunctions most of which haven't even a name

07:25:37 asciilifeform: !s myelin sheaths

07:25:37 assbot: 2 results for 'myelin sheaths' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=myelin+sheaths

07:25:38 mircea_popescu: is really the small part of the discussion. thiel is smart, and it doesn't help him

07:25:47 asciilifeform: ^ i had a physical, testable hypothesis

07:25:54 mircea_popescu: yes.

07:25:58 asciilifeform: check back in 10,000 years when the cockroaches replace us

07:25:59 asciilifeform: they'll test.

07:26:09 mircea_popescu: well... "testable" . you gotta kill people.

07:26:29 asciilifeform: i don't expect it tested in mouse or man in own lifetime

07:26:39 asciilifeform: 'too much fun'

07:26:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037159 << your point actually fails under its own weight. are fractals random ?

07:26:50 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:13:09; gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random"

07:27:07 gabriel_laddel: no

07:27:11 mircea_popescu: it advances at random to a random degree, is the thing.

07:27:14 decimation: from the book: “In any case, you are not going to learn tomorrow that all the cognitive differences between races are 100 percent genetic in origin, because the scientific state of knowledge, unfinished as it is, already gives ample evidence that environment is part of the story. But the evidence eventually may become unequivocal that genes are also part of the story. We are worried that the elite wisdom on this issue, for years

07:27:15 decimation: almost hysterically in denial about that possibility, will snap too far in the other direction. It is possible to face all the facts on ethnic and race differences in intelligence and not run screaming from the room: That is the essential message.”

07:27:19 mircea_popescu: which actually means a very good quality random.

07:27:44 mircea_popescu: decimation does it at any place say what it deems intelligence to be, this book ?

07:28:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, but it does go into the subject of stupidity

07:28:15 mircea_popescu: not a very good book eh.

07:28:21 gabriel_laddel: http://youtu.be/xzTH_ZqaFKI?t=9m57s << neat, working software, with the foundations built by high IQ individuals

07:28:24 assbot: LiveCoding in CommonLisp. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZVVP )

07:28:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a perfectly good epidemiological work.

07:28:54 mircea_popescu: why does it define stupidity and make statements about intelligence ? should stick to stupidity.

07:29:01 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: eww opengl blackbox

07:29:10 *: asciilifeform saw five seconds, saw enough

07:29:12 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel it occurs to me the templeos guy is kinda high iq

07:29:40 asciilifeform: see also link to classic thread re: 'cranks' coming 'untethered'

07:29:44 asciilifeform: for good or ill

07:29:50 gabriel_laddel: ^

07:30:04 asciilifeform: terry davis doesn't have to answer to a grant committee

07:30:07 mircea_popescu: lmao wtf was this, monkey @ lisp term ?!

07:30:23 asciilifeform: and ends up with certain things, some interesting, some not, with a heavy flavour of jizzus jizzm

07:30:38 asciilifeform: i, in his place, would come up with something quite else

07:30:53 asciilifeform: you - yet else

07:30:53 asciilifeform: etc

07:31:11 mircea_popescu: i dun see what "in his place" would mean.

07:31:16 asciilifeform: his 'thiel fellowship' came from usg.

07:31:28 asciilifeform: starvation pension, but enough to keep his computer lit

07:31:33 gabriel_laddel: !s langton's ant

07:31:33 assbot: 9 results for 'langton's ant' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=langton%27s+ant

07:31:42 gabriel_laddel: "what is intelligence?"

07:31:56 mircea_popescu: "like beauty, but for men"

07:32:02 gabriel_laddel: haha yeah

07:32:09 mircea_popescu: srsly.

07:32:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'his place' - thinking man who found, by accident or otherwise, an escape hatch from arbeit macht frei

07:32:32 mircea_popescu: i dun follow ?

07:32:39 asciilifeform: he doesn't have to work a day job

07:32:47 mircea_popescu: so then im in his place ?

07:32:49 asciilifeform: aha

07:32:54 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perianne.

07:32:54 mircea_popescu: and you aren't ?

07:32:58 asciilifeform: nope

07:33:00 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bless you.

07:33:01 decimation: the book has a whole chapter on the subject of defining intelligence

07:33:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because you HAVE to ?

07:33:12 mircea_popescu: decimation anything good ?

07:33:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha

07:33:19 mircea_popescu: or just teachin' the controversy

07:33:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to keep the lights on

07:33:24 gabriel_laddel: monkey @ lisp term ?! << outside of that, have you ever seen any program written as "fluidly"? Which comes back to the original discussion of "what is intelligence"

07:33:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mayhap that needs work ?

07:33:31 decimation: but essentially ends up with the 'classical' theory, which is 'this statistical thing that tends to pop out reliably on these tests'

07:33:39 gabriel_laddel: "why prefer incremental compilation over batch?"

07:33:58 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i dunno, i dun tend to spy on people writing code that much, i'm prolly the most ignorant in the room on that score.

07:34:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wat ?

07:34:04 gabriel_laddel: because its prettier

07:34:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "have to". if you were writing software it'd be a magic variabler.

07:35:01 asciilifeform: iirc i described the kinds of thing i do for living..

07:35:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, that's not it. if i were in prison, would i HAVE TO be in prison to keep the lights on ?

07:35:20 mircea_popescu: ie, would it be my job ?

07:35:45 asciilifeform: in ru prison circa 1951 - aha, job. want to eat? dig

07:35:55 mircea_popescu: just then ?

07:36:03 asciilifeform: (or, if very talented, beat another fella into digging your share)

07:36:27 asciilifeform: just then << 'peak stalin'

07:36:29 mircea_popescu: my point being, your have to is weak. not to any personal effect, but it does ruin our theory.

07:36:43 asciilifeform: after he croaked, that kind of thing was - at least on paper - somewhat curtailed

07:36:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037164 << the important point here is that causes not purposes.

07:36:54 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:14:45; gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?

07:37:07 mircea_popescu: for all i care the wot world can result in the sky combusing.

07:37:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is true in that, technically, i could cough up tomorrow's lottery number and play and then 'not have to' and no physical law prevents it

07:37:13 mircea_popescu: combusting*

07:37:19 asciilifeform: but this is not an algorithmic soluton.

07:37:21 asciilifeform: *solution

07:37:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or learn to eat air. or w/e.

07:37:27 asciilifeform: aha air

07:37:32 asciilifeform: unbeatable taste

07:37:33 mircea_popescu: well... maybe templeos guy did ?

07:37:47 asciilifeform: not according to his account

07:37:55 mircea_popescu: and he'd know.

07:37:56 asciilifeform: he gets usg pension.

07:38:01 mircea_popescu: because the first thing fish mentions is the water.

07:38:06 asciilifeform: i've no reason to doubt the fact of it

07:38:21 asciilifeform: plenty of folks do - simply that most of them don't write oddball os

07:38:35 mircea_popescu: if facts were facts debates would be silent observances.

07:39:13 asciilifeform: must confess, i don't know him in person

07:39:31 asciilifeform: but his self-portrait isn't in any way stretching belief

07:39:36 mircea_popescu: did i ever tell you about the naked gypsy girl ?

07:39:43 asciilifeform: gets small pension from usg, lives alone in tiny flat, eats little

07:39:51 asciilifeform: hm?

07:40:19 mircea_popescu: took some ppls to see the enchanted gypsy palaces in turda (romania). which, you know, are pretty elaborate.

07:40:51 mircea_popescu: took a wroing turn, ended up on mud street from 1750. down towards us, completely naked 9yo girl, rope tied around her waist. literally rope.

07:41:08 mircea_popescu: everyone's aghast.

07:41:24 mircea_popescu: but barefoot girl in the mud aside : she probably had parents, who similarly had to work to keep the lights on.

07:41:30 mircea_popescu: in the shape of the sun, i guess.

07:42:14 decimation: someone had to shape the mud into huts

07:42:43 asciilifeform: unless the gurl photosynthesizes - yes, they have to, or starve.

07:42:46 mircea_popescu: no these are literally palaces.

07:42:50 mircea_popescu: lemme dig something up here

07:43:08 asciilifeform: what 'work' means in the gypsy palace, i haven't any notion

07:43:15 mircea_popescu: ;;google palate tiganesti turda

07:43:15 gribble: Palatele tiganesti din Buzescu - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTBPhQcXCY; case de tigani - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UQZ64SoDtw; palatul lui Juliano radu - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7C00pWpDI8

07:43:22 asciilifeform: but whatever it is they do to keep the trucks coming

07:43:24 mircea_popescu: see the pics / whatevs.

07:43:26 decimation: at any rate, the "iq" thing seems more useful when applied on the population level

07:43:29 asciilifeform: derivatives trading?

07:43:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a long array of things, all more or less coney.

07:43:57 decimation: it might not tell you who to hire next, but it would explain why nobody in the city you are visiting has heard of plumbing

07:44:22 asciilifeform: or why 400 years of plumbing school at gunpoint had no effect

07:44:25 asciilifeform: decimation has it.

07:44:43 mircea_popescu: decimation would it now ? seems more a function of where htey were born, if they heard of plumbing or not.

07:44:53 gabriel_laddel: omfg

07:44:54 asciilifeform: (by 'plumbing' here mean 'not shitting where you drink')

07:45:05 decimation: aye

07:45:18 mircea_popescu: i doubt this is inborn.

07:45:31 decimation: wow those really are palaces

07:45:54 mircea_popescu: yes. and you should see the insides, furs and shit. it's really very azn

07:46:04 asciilifeform: complete with wall carpets?

07:46:16 mircea_popescu: always good for a culture shock for usians, because somehow they think starbucks is luxury.

07:46:24 decimation: is this what they do with all the coins they manage to scrape together?

07:46:25 mircea_popescu: meanwhile these dudes fuck on tiger fur.

07:46:45 mircea_popescu: decimation well, some of those were built out of begging, some out of scrap metal theft, some out of who knows what.

07:47:05 asciilifeform: eh betcha it's been deluxurized by chinese tiger farms

07:47:14 asciilifeform: but basic point stands

07:47:44 mircea_popescu: anyway, i was cheating a little ( http://fraudsters.com/2010/nuditatea-la-copii-si-sugari/ << original article where scene above is described). it just so happens that in that culture, kids are supposed to be naked pre puberty.

07:47:45 assbot: Nuditatea la copii si sugari pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC5Aqy )

07:48:00 asciilifeform: described in, among other places, orlov's

07:48:04 asciilifeform: '5 stages'

07:48:12 mircea_popescu: but point remains : what man HAS TO do is never clear.

07:48:12 asciilifeform: (he takes a strange fixation with the gypsies)

07:48:18 decimation: my usian upbringing causes me to conjure some dude living in a hovel or a wagon upon hearing 'gypsy'

07:48:41 mircea_popescu: decimation in fairness, most do. these are the rare exceptions not the bulk. recall orwell's "jew makes a dollar a day" thing

07:49:35 asciilifeform: i can picture that if mircea_popescu ever opens a jail, all of the cages will open from the inside with a 32-bit combination lock. nobody will 'have to' sit in this jail

07:49:44 asciilifeform: can always open the lock, no ?

07:49:45 mircea_popescu: quite.

07:50:11 mircea_popescu: 32 bit may be a little short.

07:50:21 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6**27

07:50:21 gribble: 1023490369077469249536

07:50:21 asciilifeform: this, incidentally, might be a fairly good 'business model'

07:50:26 mircea_popescu: 6 letter lock.

07:50:33 gabriel_laddel: "let me tell you a story about a mouse I caught in a field..."

07:50:48 asciilifeform: in that the occasional escaped maniac is outweighed by the folks who will sit for decades flipping digits

07:50:57 mircea_popescu: incidentally : this would be a great prison. judge doesn't give you a term. judge gives you a frequency count.

07:51:00 asciilifeform: aha

07:51:09 mircea_popescu: you can get out once you're industrious enough.

07:51:25 asciilifeform: i came up with this based on the more well-known 'schrodinger jail'

07:51:27 mircea_popescu: 1:1024*2 for theft.

07:51:35 decimation: plus the prisioners would be occupied with something, instead of scheming how to spray bodily fluids on whoever happens by the slot

07:51:42 asciilifeform: where you get a probability spread as sentence

07:52:00 asciilifeform: and get days off your term for playing 'russian roulette'

07:52:08 mircea_popescu: !up shesek

07:52:20 asciilifeform: decimation: aha, that'd be the point

07:52:59 mircea_popescu: lmao fucken dyslexia

07:53:03 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 27**6

07:53:03 gribble: 387420489

07:53:12 mircea_popescu: i was thinking wtf that many ?!

07:53:28 *: asciilifeform was thinking 'which six letters'

07:53:36 asciilifeform: and 'why 27 of'em'

07:53:46 decimation: another variant: all the prisoners play 'WoW' - upon gaining some princely sum of gold they can be freed

07:53:54 asciilifeform: decimation: sop in china

07:53:56 mircea_popescu: this is how china does it already.

07:54:00 decimation: hehe yeah

07:54:21 mircea_popescu: "rate jail best on ijail 5bn times, walk free!"

07:54:41 asciilifeform: except afaik they do 'get to eat' instead of 'walk free'

07:55:22 decimation: maybe someone should make a bitbet for the date of the appearance of an official usg 'game'

07:55:44 mircea_popescu: how'd you specify it.

07:55:47 asciilifeform: 'america's army'

07:55:54 asciilifeform: or some other kind of game meant here ?

07:56:00 mircea_popescu: wasn't it "army of one" ?

07:56:17 asciilifeform: http://www.americasarmy.com

07:56:18 assbot: America's Army ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO23wG )

07:56:46 ben_vulpes: skinned counterstrike or some such?

07:56:55 *: mircea_popescu half expects to find some bad retailer on the other end

07:56:58 decimation: the purpose of the game would be to 'sink' hours of the otherwise idle usg employees

07:57:07 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, zynga something.

07:57:10 asciilifeform: iirc it was freeware

07:57:34 mircea_popescu: "america's army products community" yep right on.

07:57:48 asciilifeform: 3d 'shooter' where you had to 'pass bootcamp', dig pits, die in ten minutes of firefight dropping like potato, etc

07:58:03 asciilifeform: 'realism'

07:58:16 asciilifeform: was commissioned as a recruiting gimmick

07:58:44 mircea_popescu: "About Rin I?m Cathe(rin)e Ray." not bad.

07:59:06 asciilifeform: http://store.steampowered.com/app/203290

07:59:08 assbot: America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta on Steam ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC7PtG )

08:00:00 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i sent her an email. iron a shirt in case shows up.

08:01:21 mircea_popescu: http://www.thielfellowship.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fellowship-banners_about-1280x460.jpg << is it me or it's mostly guys and mostly white ?

08:01:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO2uY7 )

08:01:46 gabriel_laddel: Not just you.

08:01:56 gabriel_laddel: Also, lots of asian males.

08:02:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these are the only folks for whom there isn't already $maxint in handouts

08:02:53 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel azn as in indian, but not chinese.

08:03:26 gabriel_laddel: nah, some Chinese, Vietnamese too

08:03:48 gabriel_laddel: but yes, there are a lot of indians, which I didn't previously notice

08:04:00 mircea_popescu: and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt.

08:04:07 mircea_popescu: well... good for em.

08:04:09 gabriel_laddel: (these being from the previous generations)

08:05:02 mircea_popescu: "Alum and current fellows have produced more than $100 million in economic activity including investments, exits, revenue, and grants. "

08:05:05 mircea_popescu: uh.

08:05:20 gabriel_laddel: I, with the devil's own smile, invite them to take pictures

08:05:20 gabriel_laddel: "If we show up at the border with That We're going straight to prison!"

08:05:20 mircea_popescu: "Fifty-eight organizations and startups have been founded by fellows, employing over 200 people, and creating new technologies that are being deployed around the world."

08:05:21 gabriel_laddel: ahahahaha

08:05:26 mircea_popescu: wait, there's 40 people a year right ?

08:05:27 gabriel_laddel: (From MPs gypsy girl story)

08:05:31 mircea_popescu: so basically they employ themselves ?

08:05:35 gabriel_laddel: yeah

08:05:38 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel truth.

08:05:55 gabriel_laddel: most of the companies are just pathetic in practice

08:06:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the u.s. military technical term for this is 'self-licking icecream cone'

08:06:30 asciilifeform: !s self-licking

08:06:31 assbot: 10 results for 'self-licking' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=self-licking

08:06:31 gabriel_laddel: the neat people in the Thiel fellowship are the mathematics kids, who are sort of the odd ones out

08:07:03 *: mircea_popescu was a recipient of something vaguely similar at a similar age.

08:07:08 mircea_popescu: it doesn't do much.

08:07:25 asciilifeform: because it's a temporary parole, for one thing

08:07:54 asciilifeform: if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ?

08:08:17 decimation: you could ration it slowly if you lived in rural kansas

08:08:17 gabriel_laddel: 2 years to play with Mathematics sounds wonderfully useful to me.

08:08:26 mircea_popescu: ah, i a) didn't actually need the money ; b) wasn't really about the money per se anyway

08:08:44 gabriel_laddel: well, in truth the Thiel fellowship doesn't even give it all away at once

08:08:47 gabriel_laddel: which is fucking stupid

08:08:53 mircea_popescu: no, it's not.

08:08:53 gabriel_laddel: they want them to play nicely with the world

08:08:57 gabriel_laddel: fuck that

08:09:04 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: play nicely ?

08:09:07 mircea_popescu: best way to get a bright kid killed is by giving him ten bricks of benjamins.

08:09:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what, he buys bazooka ?

08:09:33 asciilifeform: what if getting killed with honour is precisely what he wanted and needed

08:09:37 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: they don't want them to e.g., make a napster

08:09:47 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: wai wut

08:09:51 asciilifeform: i thought that was the point

08:09:57 gabriel_laddel: they dole it out a month at a time

08:09:58 asciilifeform: make something thiel-flavoured

08:10:01 gabriel_laddel: and check up on you

08:10:08 asciilifeform: aha so kommisars.

08:10:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kids. they'll find something to do.

08:10:23 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i didn't think the thiel thing could get -more- snoreworthy

08:10:28 asciilifeform: but evidently i was wrong!

08:10:30 gabriel_laddel: hehe

08:10:53 mircea_popescu: omg you buncha antisocial haters. you can't have a mentor or anything ?

08:10:55 gabriel_laddel: it seems to me the model is to find smart, angry people, fund them and then when things go to shit, stand behind them and keep them out of trouble.

08:11:02 mircea_popescu: da fuck are some kids gonna suffer from talking to adults ?

08:11:09 gabriel_laddel: but I don't know anything

08:11:10 decimation: what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?

08:11:20 asciilifeform: decimation: nothing - it's called army

08:12:13 asciilifeform: if they dole it out month at a time - it's a fucking -job-

08:12:47 gabriel_laddel: the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery

08:12:52 gabriel_laddel: which would actually be useful

08:12:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's called an annuity!

08:13:05 mircea_popescu: which is the better way to get a windfall anyway.

08:13:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a job if you gotta do xxxxx to keep'em coming

08:13:18 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how do you know this, sight unseen ?

08:13:23 asciilifeform: and avoid doing yyyyy

08:13:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you know this ?

08:13:49 asciilifeform: only from gabriel_laddel's summary thus far

08:14:21 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. << reminds me of the intro line newcomers to pdx-burningman were subjected to without fail for years, presumably if the political correctness mob hasn't gotten to them yet still are: "are you hot?"

08:14:25 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: know what in particular?

08:14:55 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel thgat the adults are not going ot be happy.

08:15:16 gabriel_laddel: Oh, I've teh insider information

08:15:21 mircea_popescu: ah.

08:15:28 asciilifeform: i for one would like to know if any thiel folks have been 'fired'

08:15:31 asciilifeform: and if so, for what.

08:15:31 mircea_popescu: you know blondy, too ?

08:15:52 asciilifeform: i bet they're NDA'd etc. but if you turn the screws, can probably find out.

08:15:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad approach.

08:16:00 gabriel_laddel: ^ I know of one in particular...

08:16:40 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes both genders ?

08:16:51 gabriel_laddel: He presented someone else's program as his own. They didn't check, being fuckwits, but eventually found out.

08:16:56 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: everyone.

08:17:07 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i bet you could toss 19 out of 20 of'em for this

08:17:15 ben_vulpes: portland's a moderately kinky town.

08:17:20 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel why the fuck would he do that.

08:17:22 asciilifeform: almost invariably 'high powered' kids in usa are simply cribbing mindlessly

08:17:26 asciilifeform: ask a college prof

08:17:28 gabriel_laddel: being a poorfag

08:17:28 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes seems harmless enough.

08:17:43 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sets the tone, you know?

08:18:23 *: decimation to bed

08:18:26 decimation: !down decimation

08:18:32 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? << good grief your burn rate, man.

08:18:54 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at least his harem isn't 40k a month!

08:19:08 asciilifeform: did i ever tell the tale of how i was once about to do a little consulting for an engineering prof, and discovered that the code that implemented 'his' algo was plagiarized wholesale by his students?

08:19:08 mircea_popescu: and what IS burning man but fuck club ?

08:19:24 asciilifeform: and that the same happened again after he fired the first set and replaced entire staff ?

08:19:46 asciilifeform: cribbed from public domain libs, quite unrelated to the actual project, passed off as 'new'

08:19:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you didn't end up beaten as a result of this ?

08:20:04 *: mircea_popescu pictures kramer @ karate class.

08:20:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had to refuse the client

08:20:24 asciilifeform: which was painful because he was a family friend and a man i respected

08:20:25 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is that *your* harem's burn rate?

08:20:35 asciilifeform: but he tried to convince me to participate in a sc4m4tr0n

08:20:56 asciilifeform: knew about the 'little problem' and said nothing when commissioning the work

08:21:02 asciilifeform: thought i wouldn't find out.

08:21:08 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah merely reference to a discussion in logs a few days ago

08:21:15 ben_vulpes: !s 40k

08:21:16 assbot: 93 results for '40k' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=40k

08:21:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, what's the objection to macarthur prizes ?

08:21:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no objection as such, aside from 'gimme'

08:21:57 mircea_popescu: 125k a year for five years, beats thiel, but anyway

08:22:00 mircea_popescu: ah

08:22:14 asciilifeform: just that none of the folks involved, afaik, coughed up anything i'd miss if it were thermonuked

08:22:21 asciilifeform: all summed to zero.

08:22:29 mircea_popescu: imo it's pretty well designed.

08:22:34 asciilifeform: designed to what ?

08:22:39 mircea_popescu: wolfram guy got it, didn't he ?

08:23:02 asciilifeform: iirc he was already rich from scamming

08:23:13 asciilifeform: that is, cribbed 'macsyma' and passed off as own work

08:23:26 *: asciilifeform doesn't like sc4mz0rz

08:23:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, for 500k, enough respectable names there.

08:24:17 asciilifeform: yes but how many respectable -after- the prize and not before

08:24:23 asciilifeform: as in, not at all before

08:24:26 asciilifeform: street urchin

08:24:44 mircea_popescu: more than half.

08:25:41 mircea_popescu: Klainerman << fine example.

08:26:04 asciilifeform: did he need it ?

08:26:12 asciilifeform: or would've been golden with or without

08:26:15 mircea_popescu: romanian immigrant post revolution

08:26:18 mircea_popescu: whadda ya think ?

08:26:39 asciilifeform: hm.

08:26:47 ben_vulpes: <decimation> what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?, <asciilifeform> decimation: nothing - it's called army << do reconsider la serenissima in this light

08:26:50 *: asciilifeform not insisting it had a 0% coefficient of useful work

08:27:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when do i get to die in a tank

08:27:28 asciilifeform: and can it be a t-34

08:27:34 mircea_popescu: Norman Manea << another fine example.

08:28:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the way it worked (works? i think, still exists?) is via a kind of secret wot

08:28:39 asciilifeform: which means that these folks weren't total islands

08:28:43 mircea_popescu: o look daniela rus too

08:28:50 mircea_popescu: no srsly, it's 3/3 so far.

08:29:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup. which is why i had a vague positive idea about it. never bothered looking.

08:29:15 mircea_popescu: but now that i did look, it seems clearly that the thing works.

08:29:25 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is not the war you grew up idolizing. it's war, which means it's going to be horrible and unpleasant for all involved.

08:29:28 asciilifeform: it has same problem as the aids test

08:29:30 mircea_popescu: MUCH better than the buffett out. "i leave my money to bil lgates"

08:29:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's got death, no ?

08:29:49 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'sexy' or not

08:29:56 ben_vulpes: so you claim.

08:30:10 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes btw, daniela rus should be right up your alley.

08:30:20 asciilifeform: same problem as aids test meaning here, that i'm much more interested in the folks left bugling in the dark

08:30:20 mircea_popescu: self reconfigurin robots etc

08:30:35 asciilifeform: and i use extant academia as an antiwot

08:30:56 asciilifeform: i.e. if you can get printed there, you're suspect

08:31:12 asciilifeform: (at the very minimum - of being a snore)

08:31:15 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm actually pretty disgusted with "modern" "robotics"

08:31:20 asciilifeform: ^

08:31:22 gabriel_laddel: ^^

08:31:35 ben_vulpes: a) it's all usg "tin woman" crap

08:31:39 mircea_popescu: mebbe look into this one ?

08:31:52 ben_vulpes: i'll *keep* looking

08:32:05 ben_vulpes: cursory inspection reveals nothing interesting.

08:32:08 asciilifeform: wake me up when a roboticists asks me for the waveguide motor

08:32:16 ben_vulpes: i'm more interested in underactuated systems.

08:32:30 ben_vulpes: map servers and massively parallel SLAM

08:32:37 asciilifeform: y'know, the one where you can have arbitrary jointless articulation without precision parts, lubrication, or freely moving parts at all

08:32:48 asciilifeform: for the cost of a length of copper cable.

08:32:51 mircea_popescu: afaik the woman's idea was "hey, what if we made robots capable of altering their own geometry, that way they won't have to be pre-programmed"

08:32:55 mircea_popescu: which is a golden thought.

08:33:05 asciilifeform: when somebody so much as asks, i'll believe there's life in 'robotics';

08:33:05 ben_vulpes: you still have to program the meta layer.

08:33:14 asciilifeform: until then it's makework

08:33:20 asciilifeform: and cargokultism

08:33:50 asciilifeform: (yes i can buy a 4-axis arm from fujitsu, and it'll do same thing as in 1969, whoopie)

08:33:51 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes or make more of them

08:34:15 gabriel_laddel: ^ ascii, I've mentioned this idea to 3 people - all reject it on grounds of "it can't be that easy, my school had all sorts people working on these problems and they never thought of it"

08:34:20 gabriel_laddel: none took the time to test it out

08:34:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doing any of it with mechanical articulation is a sad joke

08:34:53 ben_vulpes: especially and in particular the underwater stuff.

08:34:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think what was being contemplated was more akin to a synthetic amoeba than a mechanical sheep.

08:35:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the only place the required - non-negotiably - tech exists - is in my skullcase.

08:35:32 *: asciilifeform did look

08:35:36 mircea_popescu: so how would they ask ?

08:35:43 asciilifeform: because i spilled it here, for one thing

08:35:49 mircea_popescu: may take a decade.

08:35:54 ben_vulpes: as a guy who's cobbled together the odd machine or two, the notion that you can have a million little bits cooperating to give you the power of a purpose-designed driveshaft one moment and slither through a keyhole the next strikes me as wankery of the first degree.

08:36:01 asciilifeform: for another, spilled to various folks in periphery of academwot

08:36:16 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, "cooperating".

08:36:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's your finger made of ?

08:36:34 ben_vulpes: purpose built mechanisms.

08:36:38 mircea_popescu: "if you're willing to pay for ten million of these, i can prove to you that in any conceivable situation no less than 3 will be useful to your purpose"

08:36:50 ben_vulpes: several joints, some tension mechanisms and some springs.

08:36:53 mircea_popescu: and good math to show it, too

08:37:19 ben_vulpes: grey goo pipe dreams.

08:37:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is a great convo but bed's better, so! tomorrow.

08:37:32 asciilifeform: nightie

08:37:36 ben_vulpes: we don't even have computers that cooperate.

08:37:49 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: basic idea, if you recall, was same as in ordinary ac motor

08:37:54 asciilifeform: that is, rotating field.

08:38:29 asciilifeform: except you don't have a rotor or stator as such, they're dynamically 'moving' via phase shifting

08:39:40 asciilifeform: this should be enough for chinese or north kr skunk works to build it.

08:39:43 asciilifeform: and i sincerely hope they do.

08:39:53 asciilifeform: perhaps same division that built al's thing.

08:40:28 ben_vulpes: superimposed waves traveling through wire applying force at arbitrary points?

08:40:36 asciilifeform: aha

08:40:40 asciilifeform: work it out yourself if you like

08:40:47 ben_vulpes: what's to work out?

08:40:51 asciilifeform: the details

08:40:57 asciilifeform: the ones where 'the devil lives'

08:41:16 asciilifeform: realize, it flexes

08:41:19 asciilifeform: (that being the point)

08:41:25 asciilifeform: so geometry is not static

08:41:30 ben_vulpes: right, there's a recursive aspect to the problem.

08:41:37 asciilifeform: only reason tesla didn't build it

08:41:40 asciilifeform: didn't have a pc

08:41:53 asciilifeform: otherwise all of the parts were available to him

08:42:00 ben_vulpes: aside from the sims.

08:42:29 asciilifeform: (no, this is not in his materials, don't bother looking, merely pointing out that the fella who discovered rotating magnetic field application could have made the next step and went here)

08:43:05 ben_vulpes: this brings back my hankering for real time optimization problems.

08:43:43 asciilifeform: i have a friend whom i see very rarely, and often asks about 'the elephant trunk'

08:44:00 asciilifeform: and i say to him 'no, and probably never, need 1+ yr when i don't have to think about work even once;

08:44:02 asciilifeform: '

08:44:37 ben_vulpes: ugh this conversation makes me downright mournful

08:44:40 asciilifeform: the cockroaches take over - they will build.

08:44:49 ben_vulpes: morose*

08:44:54 ben_vulpes: do you know what i'm doing right now?

08:44:58 asciilifeform: drink?

08:45:14 ben_vulpes: loading the "rails" stack into my head.

08:45:30 ben_vulpes: and yes - drinking. albeit lightly.

08:45:47 *: asciilifeform doesn't know precisely what is involved, but imagines that it's a rather dreary thing

08:47:22 ben_vulpes: i would rather be working on satoshi c++.

08:47:34 ben_vulpes: at least that bends somewhat to grep.

08:48:32 asciilifeform: and... whatever that was.. doesn't ?

08:48:35 asciilifeform: closed turd?

08:49:12 *: asciilifeform to bed

08:53:30 ben_vulpes: not...readily.

08:53:41 ben_vulpes: i must learn more incantations, apparently.

09:10:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16389 @ 0.00040823 = 6.6905 BTC [-] {2}

09:11:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58718 @ 0.00038879 = 22.829 BTC [-] {2}

09:28:27 gabriel_laddel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frondizi_y_Kennedy_en_Estados_Unidos_1961.jpg

09:28:28 assbot: File:Frondizi y Kennedy en Estados Unidos 1961.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO6Uhr )

09:28:42 gabriel_laddel: they look like trustworthy fellows

09:34:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00038818 = 9.4328 BTC [-]

10:40:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79150 @ 0.00040432 = 32.0019 BTC [+] {2}

10:41:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]

10:42:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]

10:43:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6344 @ 0.0004136 = 2.6239 BTC [+]

12:31:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00039253 = 12.3254 BTC [-]

12:33:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00041375 = 16.881 BTC [+] {2}

13:07:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22847 @ 0.00039253 = 8.9681 BTC [-]

13:08:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23553 @ 0.00039181 = 9.2283 BTC [-]

14:05:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100328 @ 0.00041223 = 41.3582 BTC [+] {2}

14:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74453 @ 0.0004198 = 31.2554 BTC [+] {2}

14:07:34 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

14:07:37 gribble: Current Blocks: 345698 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 1053 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47431145154.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.59961

14:11:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2747 @ 0.00039181 = 1.0763 BTC [-]

14:12:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38353 @ 0.00038818 = 14.8879 BTC [-]

14:16:34 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery << Plain OCR is normally sufficient for books without advanced mathematics as long as you are willing to liberate the pages from the spine. Test it with a sheetfed scanner sometime.

15:05:45 fluffypony: http://aadrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-than-your-hadoop-cluster.html

15:05:46 assbot: Adam Drake ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAlWFK )

15:45:59 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: That is a great experiment. The PGN format is maximally user and machine readable. Amazing how the blockchain makes some stuff people try to pass as "big data" seem much smaller.

15:45:59 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

15:49:38 punkman: blockchain is not big data, not yet at least

15:50:30 punkman: everyone's wants to work on "big" data now, you use enough buzzwords you get a raise

15:50:43 fluffypony: yeah Hadoop != blockchain

15:50:56 BingoBoingo: punkman: Blockchain's awfully dense.

15:51:13 fluffypony: Hadoop doesn't have anything remotely resembling a blockchain

15:51:37 punkman: why would it

15:51:56 BingoBoingo: I dunno that hadoop does anything that can't be doen better with key value stores

15:51:56 fluffypony: it's also exceptionally powerful for analysing very large datasets

15:52:06 fluffypony: like in the multi-terabyte or multi-petabyte range

15:52:15 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: it *is* a key-value store

15:52:44 fluffypony: what it does better is that each piece of data is stored on at least 3 servers in the cluster

15:52:50 fluffypony: and then queries are distributed

15:53:17 fluffypony: so map->reduce works by sending the queries out to all the servers, they do the analysis, reduce it, and send the results back

15:53:36 fluffypony: and then all you're doing is re-assembling the small set of results you get and doing any final analysis on it

15:53:43 BingoBoingo: It sounds like if hadoop appears to solve a problem, then you have a number of other problems

15:54:34 punkman: well it's Java, so you are fucked

15:56:39 fluffypony: why? it's not accessible on the open Internet

15:56:54 punkman: because enterprise

15:59:02 punkman: maybe I've never seen the good Java

15:59:12 punkman: probably because it's buried in 132 subfolders :P

16:02:53 punkman: fluffypony: why? it's not accessible on the open Internet << or is it... https://www.shodan.io/search?query=hadoop

16:02:56 assbot: hadoop - Shodan Search ... ( http://bit.ly/1E66QIB )

16:04:33 fluffypony: badly configured anything is bad :-P

16:09:21 punkman: http://qntra.net/2015/02/tour-of-a-chinese-bitcoin-mine/ << so I tried this Path of Exile game mentioned in the article

16:09:21 assbot: Tour Of A Chinese Bitcoin Mine | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1E68nyk )

16:09:30 punkman: weird economy

16:14:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33538 @ 0.00038826 = 13.0215 BTC [+]

16:51:32 BingoBoingo: !up AdrianoOliveira

16:52:06 AdrianoOliveira: thanks

16:57:56 jurov: http://oglaf.com/virgincobbler

16:57:57 assbot: The Virgin Cobbler ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHnkwi )

17:03:26 BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could

17:07:59 jurov: by force of procrastination!

17:15:31 jurov: http://hpmor.com/chapter/113 lol yudkowski threatening the readers by "Otherwise you will get a shorter and sadder ending."

17:15:32 assbot: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 113: Final Exam ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHrOmp )

17:16:07 jurov: gotta start the monthly stuff now

17:31:21 BingoBoingo: lol

17:33:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00040201 = 16.6432 BTC [+]

17:45:22 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: and what IS burning man but fuck club ? << not entirely this is about 1/3 of it. Another 1/3 is "Holy shit I'm on so many drugs what's even going on, how do I survive, OMG this is so fucking awesome I wanna run around and do nothing cause I have no obligations or worries at the moment." Another 1/3 is "Holy fuck that giant thing is burning holy fuck holy fuck that is fucking awesome." IMO Burns are probably the

17:48:00 thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.

17:53:12 thestringpuller: http://democracyos.org/ << um why?

17:53:58 thestringpuller: "With 2 million+ citizens, Buenos Aires is one of the most demanding cities in the world. All 16 political groups in power helped to make it the first one in Latin America to let its citizens have direct input on its bills." Uh huh.

17:55:13 asciilifeform: fuck - with the thickest stake in the wallachian forests - the people who brand every idiot ubuntu rebrand as an 'os'

17:56:09 thestringpuller: Looks like the founder is HQ'ed in B-A

18:07:24 punkman: asciilifeform: it's a web thingy, not ubuntu

18:07:43 asciilifeform: punkman: even worse

18:10:02 punkman: basically forum software

18:10:24 punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."

18:10:43 thestringpuller: punkman: i think democracy and cryptofeudalism are incompatible

18:11:31 punkman: oh it has a blockchain too "Trust is deeply built into DemocracyOS using decentralized authority to certify every single decision made."

18:12:41 punkman: "But aware that in politics not everything happens online, we also created a new kind of political party: The Net Party. Its candidates are committed to always vote in Congress according to what citizens vote online."

18:13:32 *: asciilifeform head-desks

18:13:52 punkman: "The foundational document of The Net Party is its manifesto. Written in a collaborative process by the founding members, it consists of 60 expressions in tweet form so it can be easily shared in any kind of network. It expresses our deepest beliefs on how democracy and the net can help improve our institutions."

18:14:08 punkman: "The Net Party got 22.000 votes (1.2%) in its 1st election in Buenos Aires, October 2013."

18:14:21 punkman: myeah

18:16:14 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's okay. it's not your fault.

18:16:19 asciilifeform: lol, virtually undisguised usg muppetronics

18:16:54 thestringpuller: but everyone loves Chuck E Cheese and Disneyland!!!

18:18:23 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-02-2015#1033086 "the administration is boosting efforts to counter ISIS on social media. The plan centers around a small State Department agency that pushes against ISIS and other groups' online propaganda."

18:18:23 assbot: Logged on 25-02-2015 10:37:23; punkman: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/

18:18:36 punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"

18:18:54 asciilifeform: spam like a pro, usg.

18:19:48 thestringpuller: good afternoon mr. popescu

18:19:52 mircea_popescu: hey

18:20:04 thestringpuller: how are you?

18:20:33 mircea_popescu: not bad.

18:22:50 asciilifeform: http://www.laverdad.es/gente-estilo/201502/16/detienen-mujer-masturbarse-cine-20150216133322.html

18:22:52 assbot: Detienen a una mujer por masturbarse en el cine con 50 sombras de Grey . La Verdad ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvBgOt )

18:24:00 mircea_popescu: pr piece.

18:24:08 asciilifeform: ^ was my guess

18:24:31 mircea_popescu: so fucking transparent by now. you seen the buzzfeed "great idea" ?

18:24:32 asciilifeform: surprising that this isn't a more common tack for these

18:24:47 asciilifeform: "great idea" << nope

18:25:14 mircea_popescu: they created permanent sessions for users, showed some a dress like so, others a dress like something else

18:25:29 mircea_popescu: then idiot usians had debates about the true dress and the biological causes of not seeing it right

18:25:40 mircea_popescu: because they're, by now, this fucking stupid.

18:26:28 mircea_popescu: i could scarcely conceive of an experiment to more convincingly verify the "our audience is entirely worthless" theory. it's verified alright.

18:26:32 asciilifeform: wai wat

18:27:02 mircea_popescu: http://www.europapress.es/desconecta/curiosity/noticia-explicacion-vestido-cambia-color-genera-mas-27-millones-visitas-20150227184200.html

18:27:03 assbot: The Dress: La explicación del vestido que cambia de color genera más de 27 millones de visitas ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKWJYO )

18:27:08 mircea_popescu: there, to keep to the es theme.

18:30:06 mircea_popescu: !up lrak

18:30:21 mircea_popescu: !up mogreen

18:30:34 mircea_popescu: !up nijotz

18:31:00 mircea_popescu: !up so

18:31:06 mircea_popescu: !up Stellarflip

18:31:21 mircea_popescu: !up tsoulus

18:31:34 mircea_popescu: !up yrashk

18:33:47 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel argentina has a fixation on electing newspaper men. mitre, frondizi, etc.

18:33:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:36:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.0003877 = 10.7781 BTC [-] {2}

18:36:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037936 << i played it maybe two years ago, was a decent diablo clone.

18:36:38 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 16:09:30; punkman: weird economy

18:37:12 punkman: the crafting's kinda fun

18:39:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037942 << i found one before too! your bot's like broken.

18:39:19 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 17:03:26; BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could

18:39:52 BingoBoingo: !s from: oglafbot

18:39:53 assbot: 0 results for 'from: oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3A+oglafbot

18:40:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2015#1036688

18:40:19 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 01:32:37; mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : http://oglaf.com/rally/

18:44:52 kakobrekla: BingoBoingo i think you need to cut the space there

18:45:10 BingoBoingo: !s from:oglafbot

18:45:11 assbot: 28 results for 'from:oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aoglafbot

18:45:26 BingoBoingo: ty kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2015#1029530

18:45:26 assbot: Logged on 23-02-2015 00:47:56; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/rally/

18:46:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65247 @ 0.00038578 = 25.171 BTC [-]

18:56:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.0003848 = 13.2179 BTC [-] {3}

18:57:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037950 << it's just "poor kids in college". roughly speaking salmon to the bear.

18:57:21 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 17:48:00; thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.

18:58:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037958 i don't even want to get into a discussion of how barbarously stupid they are.

18:58:33 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 18:10:24; punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."

19:00:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037971 << "i have an idea... let's pay isis people to tweet anti-isis messages instead of beheading our guys. a) it worked for the idiot usians and b) it's easier to do, right ? which is what the consumers have come to expect"

19:00:20 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 18:18:36; punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"

19:00:41 mircea_popescu: this is pretty much the entire story of the us : let's pay everyone pretend money so they pretend we're important enough to invent money.

19:01:07 mircea_popescu: approximately the life plan of a sexually worthless, narcissistically superlative 15 yo priss.

19:07:53 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "pay everyone pretend money" << reminds me of http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Red_October_Sky from american dad

19:08:59 thestringpuller: "When Francine tells Stan she wishes he hadn't spent all their savings, he says he needed to spend money to make money. Francine then says that Stan didn't make any money, which Stan says implies that he didn't spend any money either"

19:11:02 mircea_popescu: o.O

19:11:31 mircea_popescu: what's this, the simpsons theatrical release ?

19:12:31 thestringpuller: nah it's seth mcfarlane trolling amercians cause they're too dumb to realize what's really going on

19:25:23 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's a spin off of a spin off of a spin off, because when people develop a taste for a particular shit, why not enlist more orfices to produce it

19:25:37 mircea_popescu: mhm

19:25:51 mircea_popescu: for the record, i just started writing a solution to that harry potter thing.

19:26:03 asciilifeform: solution?

19:26:05 mircea_popescu: i never read the damned books, but the challenge is interesting.

19:26:10 mircea_popescu: should be done in an hour.

19:38:07 BingoBoingo: http://hpmor.com/chapter/4 << Monetary system

19:38:08 assbot: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 4: The Efficient Market Hypothesis ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI0nsQ )

19:38:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104700 @ 0.00038341 = 40.143 BTC [-]

19:47:24 mircea_popescu: .

19:52:23 mircea_popescu: jurov http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-harry-potter-challenge/

19:52:24 assbot: The Harry Potter challenge pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI3CjT )

19:55:14 jurov: orly

19:55:50 mircea_popescu: yeh.

19:57:55 jurov: it's good. But not clear if voldemort going completely insane implies "allow Harry to evade immediate death"

19:58:12 mircea_popescu: he crushed the situation.

19:58:16 mircea_popescu: it never happened.

20:00:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, some comments in the general, for the aspiring writer : a) the most important weapon in the quiver of the scammer, which is what all fiction is, is misdirection. you were being misdirected into thinking harry potter should have agency by all the insistence on how he doesn't. (look up chekov's gun, while at it). the correct solution of a problem of agency is to attack the agent.

20:00:22 mircea_popescu: which is why it took me twenny minutes.

20:00:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: related field - stage magic

20:00:53 mircea_popescu: b) agency means growth. you can recast any actual situation into something that's a personal experience, and vice-versa. this is a major power.

20:00:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite.

20:01:15 asciilifeform: unrelated, and for aficionados only: re: the old 'integrated circuits by hand' thread: http://www.155la3.ru/k240.htm

20:01:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dr4wYQ )

20:01:19 mircea_popescu: voldemort jacking off by himself to visions of a destroyed enemy is not unlike harry potter "studying magic really hard".

20:01:38 asciilifeform: pictured device is a half-adder

20:03:26 asciilifeform: when i was a boy, these were being sold, laid on carpets in the town market, right next to rabbits and dogs

20:03:56 mircea_popescu: i saw that kinda flea market

20:04:15 asciilifeform: for some reason the theft of several examples of these curios by usg from sunken submarine is still considered a deep secret in usa

20:04:54 asciilifeform: (ru sub, howard hughes and his record-breaking salvage boat, famous project)

20:07:28 asciilifeform: if one were to read the data sheet (scan, http://www.155la3.ru/datafiles/2lb402_tu_1975.pdf ) will find that it had around 50-60 nSec propagation delay. which is pretty good for the period

20:07:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI7oK4 )

20:08:32 asciilifeform: i should like to learn how these were assembled.

20:08:41 asciilifeform: one can safely guess that it was pants-creamingly cheap

20:08:58 asciilifeform: compared to american ic of the modern type, of that period

20:09:24 asciilifeform: also notice the em cage around the package.

20:10:09 asciilifeform: correction: first device pictured is a timer. second - half adder

20:10:33 asciilifeform: or rather, eight half-adders

20:11:09 thestringpuller: Full adders are cooler than half adders

20:11:20 thestringpuller: need dat carry bit all day erryday negro

20:11:44 asciilifeform: the timer appears, on cursory reading, to be a clone of the universally known '555'

20:12:09 asciilifeform: but contains six of'em

20:12:41 asciilifeform: anyway, posted here solely for the photos of 'what if we just had very small transistors and planted them down on very fine pcb'

20:12:50 asciilifeform: discussed in last week's thread.

20:14:31 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you don't like IC's?

20:15:06 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: thread was re: whether and how one could build a reasonable computer without access to ic fab or the output of one

20:15:27 asciilifeform: that is to say, with the ability to arrange arbitrary logical elements

20:15:29 thestringpuller: ah yes. log reference or search keyword?

20:15:44 thestringpuller: i have pondered the same thing myself

20:15:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-02-2015#1022401

20:15:59 assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 18:03:08; asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down'

20:16:14 asciilifeform: (thread above and below link)

20:17:09 thestringpuller: I do wonder if we'll ever be able to print IC's without being millionaires or wholesalers.

20:17:24 thestringpuller: wholesellers*

20:18:23 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if interested in this subject, read - at least that - thread

20:22:05 mircea_popescu: jurov what is this anyway ? i thought some woman wrote harry potter ?

20:22:13 mircea_popescu: who's yakudskty

20:22:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26323 @ 0.00040124 = 10.5618 BTC [+]

20:22:22 jurov: !s eliezer

20:22:22 assbot: 4 results for 'eliezer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eliezer

20:22:42 asciilifeform: !s yudkowsky

20:22:43 assbot: 18 results for 'yudkowsky' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yudkowsky

20:22:46 jurov: and yes, j.k. rowling aoriginally wrote it

20:23:01 asciilifeform: we did yudkowsky here at least five times, iirc

20:23:20 jurov: but herr yudkowsky was apparently upset at harry's stupidity and wrote a fanfic

20:23:24 mircea_popescu: i dun get it.

20:23:35 mircea_popescu: oh oh i c.

20:23:36 asciilifeform: jurov: nope. he wrote it as a propaganda device for his cult

20:23:39 asciilifeform: and it works

20:23:45 jurov: ah, that too

20:23:58 mircea_popescu: so ima have two things out of this. first an arguent with alf, then once laddel and the rest of the proponents of "intelligence" wake up, ima have one with them.

20:24:23 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022584 << So what is the "value" of interns?

20:24:24 mircea_popescu: so asciilifeform, do you see how the situation here maps exactly on the uncle al and the magical molecule situation ?

20:24:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read the foibles of al slightly differently. more as a failure to intellectually detach from usg

20:25:01 asciilifeform: because, in his mind, there is no place to go

20:25:13 mircea_popescu: but have i just forked "the world" ?

20:25:29 mircea_popescu: i have no guarantee that this goes into the... canon, or w/e, fanon-type-45345

20:26:29 asciilifeform: the way al saw his situation, there are precisely two choices for him - usg and its apparatchiks, and the world of unfiltered and unfundable idiot alchemists, astrologers, 'phree energy' imbeciles, and other usenet denizens which he spent all of the '90s recreationally hunting for sport

20:26:58 mircea_popescu: right. and here the same : paste your text as a "review", or publish it on your blog.

20:27:01 asciilifeform: these figures living, as they do, in 'forked worlds'

20:27:04 mircea_popescu: like you know, all the other blogs.

20:27:06 mircea_popescu: except... not.

20:27:07 mircea_popescu: why not ?

20:27:17 asciilifeform: he did publish on his www

20:27:23 mircea_popescu: in this perspective, al's lament reduces to tim sweeney's lament. "oh woe that not being in the wot my ideas hold no value"

20:27:28 asciilifeform: the thing's been there since mid '90s

20:27:34 mircea_popescu: well... stfu and get in the wot. nobody, NOBODY is above the intern work for a year.

20:27:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not how this works.

20:27:55 mircea_popescu: the equivalent of "story published on blog" is "50k calorimetry assay"

20:27:58 asciilifeform: he wants to be in the wot of the folks with the machine

20:27:59 mircea_popescu: not "also published on blog"

20:28:01 asciilifeform: the bloody machine

20:28:03 asciilifeform: not ours.

20:28:07 mircea_popescu: fuck him. it's not about what he wants.

20:28:09 mircea_popescu: he does not want, he does.

20:28:15 mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone.

20:28:27 mircea_popescu: people have to fucking realise, for once in their life, that a_) fuck them and b) it's not about what they want.

20:28:37 asciilifeform: incidentally, upon rereading last night's log, i must publish a correction

20:28:48 asciilifeform: i did emphatically did -not- invent or design the calorimetric test

20:28:59 asciilifeform: but rather the feedstock for the spectroscopic test.

20:29:06 asciilifeform: of similar difficulty and expense

20:29:07 mircea_popescu: aha

20:30:40 mircea_popescu: but back to the story : if your call on the y fellow is correct, he makes for an absoluely perfect model of "chemistry usg".

20:30:47 asciilifeform: idea being, 'me: if gravity has chiral component, consider two propellers glued back to back as 'barbell'. ought to rotate in a particular direction depending on orientation. align using electromagnetic means, infer angular momenta' al: 'here's how'

20:31:06 asciilifeform: *molecular 'propellers' that is

20:31:12 asciilifeform: not, of course, macroscopic ones

20:31:48 asciilifeform: 'barbell' rotates if propellers face in same dir

20:31:58 chetty: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPN2taxx0xD

20:32:00 assbot: Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links - 28 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrcfGl )

20:32:04 asciilifeform: but if not - bond strain increases - which you can also measure

20:32:18 asciilifeform: chetty: based on phacts

20:32:29 mircea_popescu: chetty this has been going on for a while actually.

20:33:10 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022638

20:33:23 thestringpuller: ^- didn't he end up eating green eggs and ham at the end of the book?

20:33:46 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://www-psych.nmsu.edu/~linda/greeneggs/gepage1.htm

20:33:50 asciilifeform: ^ l33t w4r3z

20:34:20 asciilifeform: and, spoiler: sure he did

20:34:34 chetty: <mircea_popescu> chetty this has been going on for a while actually.//it just sounds worse when the internet is a public utility

20:34:46 mircea_popescu: hehe

20:35:08 mircea_popescu: but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics"

20:35:35 mircea_popescu: and so are plenty of other things. the guardian and washpo and the rest of the buzzfeed carrion crawlers aren't up there because they favorably compete with qntra on some sort of machine basis

20:35:38 mircea_popescu: they're just "facts".

20:35:57 mircea_popescu: and once i get my hands around their throats, the "facts" will be slightly divers.

20:46:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 25000 @ 0.000065 = 1.625 BTC [-]

20:48:17 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_AkylovBaydakovVasiliev.pdf << even if you don't know ru, you may find this interesting for the diagrams. use and engineering manual to famous ru 'igla' ('needle') rocket.

20:48:30 mircea_popescu: in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak-wzUv_FvY

20:48:31 assbot: Physical Examination of the Vulva, Vagina and Cervix in the Mare - Towcester Equine Clinic - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Drgyl5 )

20:48:33 asciilifeform: afaik no analogous american document exists in open literature

20:52:04 cazalla: punkman: re: path of exile, i like that the economy is based around orbs (at least it was when i was playing) but i quit after my hardcore char died in lower 90s

20:53:27 cazalla: for anyone that has not played it, orbs act a little similar to soj economy, but unlike d2, poe did away with gold drops and crap like that, pure barter system

20:56:24 thestringpuller: the soj economy was rigged!

20:56:30 thestringpuller: cazalla: was a dooper

20:56:33 thestringpuller: !!!!!

20:56:33 thestringpuller: jkjk

20:56:59 thestringpuller: but srsly soj economy was so annoying. the rune economy was a bit better

20:57:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00040124 = 1.0031 BTC [+]

20:58:02 cazalla: i didn't play much lod which from memory brought runes

20:58:25 cazalla: i tried to sell orbs for btc in poe 2 years ago but noone had heard of bitcoin except 1 guy

20:59:53 thestringpuller: baal runs made it easy to get that XP

20:59:59 thestringpuller: just sit in corner level up

21:00:06 thestringpuller: then go magic find on meph runs

21:00:14 thestringpuller: LoD was dope

21:03:48 cazalla: thestringpuller, poe map runs > baal runs

21:04:12 cazalla: it's one thing they did really well but i think poe made it more noob friendly

21:04:26 thestringpuller: D2 was kinda like crack. You played it, didn't know why, and before you knew it you were hooked.

21:05:39 cazalla: problem with playing D2 from australia was that you could still only get dialup and it was better to play on a fake battle.net hosted at your isp

21:11:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00039199 = 12.7397 BTC [-]

21:23:39 mircea_popescu: "Background for non-transhumanists:

21:23:39 mircea_popescu: Transhumanists are not fond of death. We would stop it if we could. To this end we support research that holds out hope of a future in which humanity has defeated death. Death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magic

21:23:39 mircea_popescu: al ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. If I could create a world where people lived forever, or at the very least a few billion years, I would do so."

21:23:41 mircea_popescu: lmao this fucktard.

21:23:54 mircea_popescu: why are all these driven nuts so mentally simple anyway ?

21:24:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's bait

21:25:09 asciilifeform: he's no imbecile, but cynical bastard who knows exactly what he's doing

21:25:18 mircea_popescu: if it is or if it isn't...

21:25:23 asciilifeform: ancient device of immortality 'jam tomorrow' promise

21:25:29 asciilifeform: reworked for homo redditicus

21:25:30 mircea_popescu: so he's another modlbug. what difference does it make ? still simple.

21:25:39 asciilifeform: simple bait, works.

21:25:44 mircea_popescu: besides the point.,

21:26:05 mircea_popescu: "why are you spending your time with cockroaches ?" "i kill them" "yes. but you're still spending time with them."

21:26:29 asciilifeform: ^ life of programmers

21:27:03 mircea_popescu: imagine the horror of this. "i invented a machine which lets you live on for a billion years, so you can write stupid shit so that stupid people keep on powering it"

21:27:08 mircea_popescu: said every literary hack ever.

21:28:23 mircea_popescu: anyway. if there's anyone who actually had the patience ot read all this stuff and wishes to proffer a summary please do.

21:29:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-11-2014#927657

21:29:01 assbot: Logged on 18-11-2014 15:38:39; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks

21:29:15 mircea_popescu: i see the guy's been pouring out a coupla million words, which is more than moldbug, but i won't be bothering to actually read the shit, it's too stale.

21:29:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.

21:38:29 thestringpuller: CLOUD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk << at least I'm not him

21:43:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "igla" << why must you torture me

21:45:38 ben_vulpes: there's no reason why these things should cost $MAXINT, aside from the prohibition on owning the constituent materials for any not favorite son.

21:45:48 ben_vulpes: ugh your paradigms are infectious.

21:46:03 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: homo redditicus << can I use this in future qntra articles?

21:49:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: IFF mechanism << another application for asymmetric crypto.

21:51:24 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: gorgeous diagrams. thank you.

21:54:21 thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/03/man-who-establishes-bounty-to-replace-vessennes-bitcoin-foundation-on-board/

22:16:33 danielpbarron: !up indiancandy1

22:17:01 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you must be omnitwitteraware

22:17:16 thestringpuller: second bb posted my article was downstaires getting moar beer

22:17:27 thestringpuller: i see "You have 1 new twitter mention" on my phone

22:17:28 thestringpuller: lolol

22:17:47 *: danielpbarron shrugs

22:18:35 indiancandy1: thanks daniel

22:27:33 cazalla: oh.. no scoopbot :\ http://qntra.net/2015/03/silberts-bit-to-trade-on-pink-sheets/

22:27:33 assbot: Silbert's BIT To Trade On Pink Sheets | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0RMNn )

22:31:59 jurov: btw have you seen the "nyse to invest to CBSE" tidbit?

22:32:43 jurov: http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/nyse-usaa-and-bbva-make-75m-coinbase-investment/

22:32:44 assbot: NYSE, USAA and BBVA Make $75M Coinbase Investment | PYMNTS.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0S1I6 )

22:34:05 jurov: !t m d.cbse

22:34:06 assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.

22:35:17 jurov: lol, assbot ate it

22:36:24 jurov: The total raised by Coinbase has now hit $106 million. Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company reports that there are 2.1 million bitcoin wallets from a customer base of 1.9 million

22:36:38 jurov: ;;calc 106/1.9

22:36:38 gribble: 55.7894736842

22:36:43 jurov: ^ per chump

22:37:40 indiancandy1: oi

22:37:55 cazalla: jurov, yeah that's old news now

22:38:09 jurov: haven't seen it discussed here

22:38:27 jurov: maybe i miss something but D.CBSE looks attractive

22:39:08 cazalla: i think BingoBoingo wrote that up if memory serves

22:39:35 BingoBoingo: Old news, being repeated because google news sucks

22:39:35 thestringpuller: jurov: attractive to short?

22:40:22 jurov: you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million?

22:40:32 jurov: that's what D.CBSE price implies

22:42:01 thestringpuller: jurov: haven't they raised in the 100's of mn?

22:42:19 jurov: yes

22:42:54 thestringpuller: SF, prosperity built on fake money.

22:43:17 jurov: so if they manage to IPO coinbase, it can raise so much, no?

22:43:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24666 @ 0.00039445 = 9.7295 BTC [+] {2}

22:43:43 thestringpuller: they'd have to raise more than their "implied valuation" right? like 100 mn+ ?

22:44:11 thestringpuller: so early investors can exit cleanly, aka the FB IPO scam.

22:44:27 jurov: For D.CBSE long investment to be even, it needs "only" $46m IPO or buyout

22:44:38 jurov: at current btcusd

22:44:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14984 @ 0.00040351 = 6.0462 BTC [+] {2}

22:44:50 jurov: and i'm curious why mircea thinks that won't ever happen

22:44:54 thestringpuller: risky cause who knows if they ever IPO...

22:45:06 thestringpuller: or get bought out.

22:45:45 jurov: imo they can't afford to wait either

22:46:37 jurov: (they=the bezzle investors)

22:47:23 thestringpuller: jurov: what if the bezzle investors don't care tho?

22:47:50 thestringpuller: you do bring up good question tho: what is the bezzle investors endgame (or what they have in mind at least)?

22:48:47 jurov: waterfall operators definitely care

22:49:18 jurov: yes, maybe they want just to drive it to the ground

22:50:29 jurov: i dunno, just asking. and don't want to tie more bitcoins for indeterminate time in D.CBSE, either.

22:51:02 mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1

22:51:09 thestringpuller: if company is run into ruins (i.e. MtGox)...it is moot issue

22:51:31 indiancandy1: hi mp

22:52:33 mircea_popescu: <jurov> you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? << you realise this round was utterly dillutive right ?

22:53:23 mircea_popescu: 75mn with btc at 250 means 300k extra btc worth of shares.

22:53:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14539 @ 0.00038341 = 5.5744 BTC [-]

22:55:02 jurov: yes, dilutive.. on other side, it increased the number of people interested to inflate it beyond all reason and then release it

22:55:38 mircea_popescu: right.

22:56:10 mircea_popescu: just because of btc/usd vagaries, the original investment (which happened at 1200) lost 85% of its value.

22:57:57 mircea_popescu: <jurov> that's what D.CBSE price implies << actually, no, the price implies they can't sell for over 350k btc at the time they sell.

22:58:26 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: gorgeous diagrams << that thing contains perhaps 80% of the info required to construct the rocket.

22:59:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the algorithmics are not described in great detail, but the waveforms representing the proportional-control mechanism are shown, and at this point the 'multicopter' folks have rederived all of it and then some

22:59:15 asciilifeform: very basic maths

22:59:41 jurov: they can't sell for over 350k btc.. << or else? you'll keep selling as many D.CBSE as necessary?

23:00:18 mircea_popescu: suppose in 2020 coinbase lists on nyse, 100mn shares, and they go for 50 bux each. that's 5 bn.

23:00:57 mircea_popescu: suppose at the same time btc/usd trades for 18`560

23:01:17 mircea_popescu: at that point, the coinbase listing has actually been a net loss for d.cbse holders.

23:03:51 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: some of the more interesting stuff is in the text - e.g., description of the molten-electrolyte battery; the sensor cooling system; the guidance loop per se

23:06:51 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'll add that the document is in fact a textbook for detachment commanders operating the rocket

23:07:31 asciilifeform: published by tomsk politechnik university press

23:10:15 asciilifeform: similar textbook for a cannon: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_Machinko.pdf

23:10:33 mircea_popescu: jurov as an example, if someone bought 100 shares on mpex today at the 0.239 price paying 23.9 btc, he would control (if memory serves) 1% of the 1% f.derp stake in the origial coinbase. that'd entitle him to 0.01% of the value of 50/350 parts in the coinbase ipo, which would come to

23:10:34 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 5000000000?50?350?0.0001

23:10:34 gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)

23:10:43 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 5000000000*50/350*0.0001

23:10:43 gribble: 71428.5714286

23:11:16 mircea_popescu: 71k usd is a great return for a 24 btc investment,

23:11:17 asciilifeform: (yes, mircea_popescu would probably point out that it is not a cannon, but a heavy machine-gun.)

23:11:25 mircea_popescu: provided coinbase goes to 5bn while btc stays under

23:11:42 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 71428.5714286 / 23.9

23:11:42 gribble: 2988.64315601

23:12:40 mircea_popescu: otherwise, if coinbase opens for a mkt cap of 250mn in two years (accounting for inflation, basically)...

23:15:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, the utter chilling of d.* trade past while shows kinda plainly where that ship's going, imo.

23:15:56 jurov: i see

23:18:03 mircea_popescu: obv this is just napkin calcs, a definitive version'd come out once that unicorn stomps its foot.

23:22:12 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << remarkably unsticky, dat social media "traffic"

23:22:14 assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1z30vvN )

23:24:19 jurov: oh and thx for shedding the light on d.cbse

23:26:24 mircea_popescu: (and all this neglecting their previous round, http://recode.net/2014/11/14/bitcoin-company-coinbase-raising-new-investment-at-400-million-valuation/ )

23:26:25 assbot: Bitcoin Company Coinbase Raising New Investment at $400 Million Valuation | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ4Wap )

23:27:18 mircea_popescu: basically, they're trying for a usg mpex. which... hey, fine, have fun trying.

23:27:45 cazalla: mircea_popescu, yeah i think it was bb that said we'd be lucky to turn 1% of it into reg readers

23:27:47 jurov: !t m f.mpif

23:27:47 assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 7D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020657 / 0.000207 (1750 shares, 0.36 BTC)

23:29:01 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: they're trying for a usg mpex. << More like Reddit MPEX

23:29:21 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no.

23:29:59 cazalla: i thought it was a cardinal sin for it to be called anything other than MPEx? :P

23:30:25 thestringpuller: although coinbase is a part of the waterfall only derps utilize it.

23:30:31 mircea_popescu: well, horowitz and the rest of the policy vehicles are on board, so.

23:31:27 thestringpuller: this doesn't mean the customer base is anything other than homo redditicus

23:32:02 thestringpuller: although MPex has it's idiots (see: http://fraudsters.com/2013/because-most-people-are-idiots-in-spite-of-never-manning-up-and-admitting-to-it/) don't think it's near the same percentages as coinbase users

23:32:45 mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important in this discussion.

23:33:06 mircea_popescu: but in other news, http://i.imgur.com/kqxF9Mo.jpg

23:33:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ665V )

23:35:16 mircea_popescu: and incidentally that must be a typo, 1.9mn users 2.1mn accounts. more like 190k.

23:35:33 mircea_popescu: seems improbable even that many actually sent the ridoinculous "kyc" paperwork.

23:39:35 mircea_popescu: cazalla the "usg mpex" comment was chiefly because there's no conceivable need a webwallet operator could have for even 1mn.

23:39:48 mircea_popescu: somewhat mirroring the "mpex is worth a billion dollars ?!?!?!" thing.

23:39:54 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important << I don't but the inevitabilibty of such an endeavor (i.e. http://qntra.net/2015/02/us-political-crisis-may-impoverish-homeland-security-department/#comment-11399), doesn't seem like a good thing

23:40:08 mircea_popescu: mebbe so.

23:40:11 thestringpuller: particularly with "those people" involved

23:40:30 mircea_popescu: im moreover curious if they're going to actually try and rescue the scam foundation or just make a new and "real" one.

23:41:00 mircea_popescu: kinda win-win situation, if they try to rescue the scam foundation they will fail, if they don't you know we scare them.

23:41:37 thestringpuller: what if they just let foundation die and then try again?

23:41:48 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the only "people involved" by now are horowitz and the us fed.

23:41:51 thestringpuller: there is no endgame for them launching a foundation.

23:42:04 thestringpuller: or resucing existing one

23:43:09 asciilifeform: if there's one thing we 'know' about the undead, it is that they can walk indefinitely until physically scattered

23:43:15 asciilifeform: into smallish pieces

23:43:33 asciilifeform: consider the 'silent circle' and 'redphone' crap by the subverted zimmerman

23:43:52 asciilifeform: anal opening a mile wide is found? no matter, carries on exactly as before.

23:43:54 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: we also know undead are more "effective" when there are lots of them.

23:44:26 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916

23:44:26 assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.

23:44:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice how none of the coverage included a "this C round utterly dilutes naive investors from the previous B and A rounds"

23:44:42 mircea_popescu: heck, the B round's not even mentioned AT ALL.

23:44:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because that's SOP !

23:44:45 asciilifeform: also sop

23:45:07 asciilifeform: that'd be like coverage of an assassination describing the exact mechanical workings of the rifle

23:45:13 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

23:45:21 asciilifeform: 'and then the hammer hit the firing pin, and the...'

23:45:56 mircea_popescu: so some derp on reddit wanted to know "why do we even want to kill banks then" in the blockchain subversion debate.

23:46:02 mircea_popescu: well... this is why : so this sort of shit stops washing.

23:46:12 mircea_popescu: not so that random redditard can buy his porn for 0 fees.

23:46:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.0003979 = 15.4584 BTC [+]

23:48:03 mircea_popescu: ( http://fraudsters.com/2015/and-then-she-went-splat-on-the-asphalt/#footnote_5_60229 ref)

23:48:04 assbot: And then she went splat! on the asphalt. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ8Cck )

23:49:01 asciilifeform: 'why spent time with roaches ?'

23:49:28 mircea_popescu: i eat them.

23:49:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37739 @ 0.00040159 = 15.1556 BTC [+] {2}

23:49:54 asciilifeform: chinese school, i see.