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Transcript for 01-04-2014, 2436 lines:

00:00:15 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla simple ban avoiding technique : make .lk account, link it to bitcointalk.org account

00:00:23 mircea_popescu: if .org acount is banned, make new one, link it again

00:03:46 kakobrekla: not much of a gain just using org directly with moar accounts

00:03:53 kakobrekla: gain over *

00:04:28 mircea_popescu: posts become undeleteable.

00:04:41 mircea_popescu: i guess they are anyway

00:05:05 mircea_popescu: but the political angle is important, that shit must die.

00:05:17 asciilifeform: gentlemen, lol! perhaps the log should stay like this

00:05:35 moiety: btctalk needs to become deleteable on the whole

00:05:51 mike_c: you are directly supporting bitcointalk by paying someone to create high quality posts there. seems contradictory.

00:05:56 tg2: lol, ltcponzi 700 ltc in 15 seconds

00:06:24 mircea_popescu: mike_c i am aware. won't last very long really.

00:07:03 mircea_popescu: was looking for a way out for a while. reducing .org to the status of a lousy scrapper of .lk seems perfect.

00:08:32 mike_c: that cesspool hardly needs killing. it's already a wasteland.

00:09:09 mike_c: i think it is admirable to try to provide a path out of there through mpoe-pr, but if they don't want it..

00:09:48 mircea_popescu: there are two separate problems here.

00:09:58 mircea_popescu: one is that people generally are stupid. this, we knew going in, not a problem.

00:10:04 mircea_popescu: the other is that theymos & co are scammers.

00:10:07 mircea_popescu: this needs resolving.

00:10:18 antephialtic: yes, I agree. Forum should have an entrance exam

00:10:31 mike_c: you can't have an entrance exam. everybody starts off stupid.

00:10:32 tg2: IQ test

00:10:50 antephialtic: it should include a study guide

00:11:01 tg2: 2 week course

00:11:04 tg2: $500

00:11:12 tg2: get crypto certified

00:11:12 mike_c: if you want to kill bitcointalk, you need to create a new forum. it will fill with retards eventually, but it would solve the second problem.

00:11:15 mircea_popescu: antephialtic the problem with any exam that doesn't also include a firing squad is that it creates a class of niggers.

00:11:22 mircea_popescu: mike_c .lk.

00:11:42 antephialtic: on basic principles of bitcoin. to eliminate people who aren't capable of learning, and to make sure that people who get in aren't asking the most basic of questions

00:11:51 mike_c: and it can't be on b-a :) bad juju

00:12:06 antephialtic: HUR DUR whats a change address DERP

00:12:07 asciilifeform: this actually reminds me of something fairly foolish that i almost did

00:12:46 asciilifeform: at one point, i worked on a 'destupidator' (actual working title) - sort of like a 'captcha', but based on the 'raven matrix' iq test.

00:13:25 cazalla: i dunno antephialtic, that seems a reasonable question to me for someone new to bitcoin

00:13:48 antephialtic: cazalla: that should be on the entrance exam

00:14:47 antephialtic: I'd rather have a forum for the 20% of competent people using bitcoin, than a wasteland for those unwilling or uncapable of learning

00:15:00 antephialtic: they are free to hang out on reddit

00:15:27 cazalla: how can they learn if they need to be learned to pass the exam prior to accessing the forum?

00:15:37 antephialtic: exam includes a study guide

00:15:44 asciilifeform: cazalla: exam for write-access

00:15:50 cazalla: all you really need to do is restrict post ability for 6-12 months

00:16:03 cazalla: oh ok, that makes sense then asciilifeform

00:16:11 antephialtic: no. I want smart/motivated individuals to be able to post right away

00:16:15 mike_c: you are describing b-a. study guide is the wiki.

00:16:35 antephialtic: b-a is great, but there is a lot of benefit to a threaded discussion format

00:16:48 pankkake: what about requiring referals?

00:17:30 asciilifeform: here's another crackpot idea. a very 'slow' mailing list, where it costs 1 btc to post. a few days later, you get it back on the sending addr - if you're nice.

00:17:35 asciilifeform: s/nice/intelligent

00:17:39 BCB: is Andreas M. Antonopoulos a core dev?

00:18:11 antephialtic: BCB: no, he's the glenn beck of bitcoin

00:18:24 antephialtic: or rather, the rush limbaugh

00:18:33 BCB: antephialtic: why is he writing "Mastering Bitcoin" for 0'Reily

00:18:39 mike_c: mircea_popescu: was that shorthand for "that's what i'm doing with .lk"? i don't think that works, because the high quality content you influence to go to .lk also ends up in their forum. it's not competition.

00:18:40 cazalla: he's not even a media contact to much butthurt for him

00:18:41 nubbins`: pankkake: referrals? sounds like goat's forum

00:19:12 nubbins`: someone name a movie

00:19:12 mircea_popescu: antephialtic there's a diference between clueless and stupid.

00:19:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` all about eve.

00:19:35 nubbins`: is it as depressing as the bicycle thieves?

00:19:39 mircea_popescu: no.

00:19:53 mircea_popescu: it's hollywood not italian new wave

00:20:04 nubbins`: good, 'cause that was a real downer

00:20:11 mircea_popescu: BCB bitcoin core devs are the folks at conformal.

00:20:13 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: the clueless are redeemable so long as they educate themselves. the stupid are not capable of contributing useless discussion and should be left to rot on reddit

00:20:54 mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah, it is actually.

00:21:36 mircea_popescu: nubbins` downer yeah. good film tho

00:21:41 nubbins`: agreed

00:22:03 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: have you messed around with conformal's btcd?

00:24:01 mircea_popescu: maybe :p

00:25:51 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ipvo-multiple-exchanges-neo-bee-lmb-holdings.167762/page-226#post-5730195

00:25:53 ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings | Page 226 | Bitcointa.lk

00:25:57 mircea_popescu: mike_c looks like your wish may well be granted.

00:26:51 mike_c: lol. awesome response.

00:27:49 kakobrekla: kako sets the fashion trend

00:28:37 mircea_popescu: lol

00:30:21 pankkake: "MPOE-PR perma-banned. His only option to get his account back is an appeal to theymos."

00:30:26 pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551603.msg6010465#msg6010465

00:30:28 ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.

00:30:33 tg2: lol

00:30:46 kakobrekla: he is not fucking around.

00:31:04 mircea_popescu: i guess we're going to tune in to .lk for further mpoe-pr posts.

00:31:46 nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551603.msg6010465#msg6010465

00:31:46 nubbins`: ha

00:31:47 ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.

00:31:55 antephialtic: honestly speaking, mpoe-pr is pretty inflammatory, but speaks the truth

00:32:15 kakobrekla: i guess you all will be wearing shoelacesless shoes by t he conference.

00:32:17 antephialtic: unfortunate that the forum users fail to see that

00:32:23 tg2: yes IP bans are effective obv

00:32:26 mike_c: so someone creates a thread to get herp banned, and that dipshit bans mpoe-pr instead. classic forum.

00:32:36 tg2: why couldn't the otc/vouch system work for a forum?

00:32:45 tg2: you have to get invited by a member with positive rep

00:32:47 mircea_popescu: it's pretty much the system that sunk -otc into irrelevancy, so...

00:32:50 mircea_popescu: at least idiots are consistent.

00:33:02 nubbins`: tg2: that's what goat did with his forum

00:33:05 nubbins`: it's pretty dead there

00:33:14 mircea_popescu: goat has a wot now ?

00:33:16 tg2: the general public is pretty dumb

00:33:27 tg2: it never amazes me at the success of the most blatant scams

00:34:16 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: cryptocrypt.org

00:34:33 kakobrekla: cryptocryptcry

00:34:34 mircea_popescu: nubbins` a wot i mean.

00:34:41 nubbins`: ah

00:34:53 mircea_popescu: anyway, i had a forum on the old polimedia domain, same principle, also pretty dead.

00:34:54 nubbins`: i was thinking in terms of "u wot m8"

00:35:16 tg2: maybe a simpler wot

00:35:40 nubbins`: anyway, membership in the forum is by invite only, and i think being rude gets you banned or something

00:36:45 tg2: we had a car enthousaist forum that had a "premium" section where members could pay and had to be invited to do so

00:36:54 tg2: it was pretty elite compared to the general scrubbery

00:37:01 tg2: sort of a one-way-glass type affair

00:38:33 mircea_popescu: honestly i don't see why .lk can't be used for exactly this purpose.

00:39:27 nubbins`: gigposters.com forums have a "premium membership" option for $20/year

00:39:45 nubbins`: you get access to a special subforum where people post plans for diy equipment

00:39:53 mike_c: 50 people posting on bitcointa.lk is not going to kill btctalk.org.

00:39:59 nubbins`: and if you ask too many questions without VIP, people shame you and stop answering ;(

00:40:27 mircea_popescu: mike_c depends which.

00:40:37 mircea_popescu: i personally don't think there's any value in the forum format, but hey.

00:40:39 mircea_popescu: some people seem to.

00:41:00 mike_c: 50 people posting exclusively on a forum could draw traffic, but i don't believe it works when the content is forwarded to the competition.

00:41:23 mike_c: it would be like if quora sent all their posts to yahoo answers.

00:42:23 mike_c: even that would be better, because at least quora wouldn't have all the shit. but bitcointa.lk does have all the shit too!

00:43:09 mike_c: it's like shit with a sprinkling of honey. i would bitbet this but it's not definable.

00:44:02 mircea_popescu: you don't HAVE to forward it.

00:44:09 mircea_popescu: you get all their shit copied over

00:44:15 mircea_popescu: and you can lol at it or w/e.

00:46:31 BingoBoingo: I really don't see the point of cross posting to the Thermos forum, if the aim is killing the pretense of its relevance

00:48:10 ThickAsThieves: Hey I'm gonna ban myself from the forum

00:48:13 ThickAsThieves: fuck that shit

00:48:49 ThickAsThieves: they have no good reason to ban people that are consistently right and alienated just because people wanna be delusional

00:48:59 asciilifeform: curious - am i the only one here who never posted to btct ?

00:50:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i never posted either.

00:51:10 asciilifeform: that makes 2...

00:51:11 artifexd: Liar

00:51:48 artifexd: I was shocked to find posts by you. Granted, they were a few years ago. But still...

00:52:44 mike_c: everybody starts a newbie (except ascii)

00:52:55 asciilifeform: lol

00:53:06 asciilifeform: mike_c: i'm here by accident, really.

00:53:09 ThickAsThieves: there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551603.msg6010682#msg6010682

00:53:17 mircea_popescu: lol selfban party

00:53:27 mircea_popescu: artifexd i dun think so.

00:53:38 artifexd: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=37923;sa=showPosts <- Not you?

00:53:39 ozbot: Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu

00:54:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i think the traditional way to do it is making this post : https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ipvo-multiple-exchanges-neo-bee-lmb-holdings.167762/page-226#post-5730195

00:54:23 mircea_popescu: give it some ritual lmao

00:54:28 mircea_popescu: artifexd nop

00:54:37 *: pankkake clicks "like"

00:55:14 artifexd: As it is not provably you, I can only accept your word and sit back down, corrected and humble.

00:55:17 ThickAsThieves: well, so I got on my soapbox before saying fuck you, oh well

00:55:37 mike_c: i think he is just forgetting. this certainly sounds like him :) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=37923;sa=showPosts

00:56:18 mircea_popescu: mike_c so do you.

00:56:33 mike_c: hah. perhaps in another year.

00:56:37 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla your forum wordmixer gave mpoe-pr a small heart attack lol

00:56:43 ThickAsThieves: really without mpoe-pr and friends, what's left there anyway?

00:58:17 ThickAsThieves: "bitcoinmagazine.com wants to use your computer's location Allow Deny"

00:58:18 ThickAsThieves: ....

00:58:53 kakobrekla: hehe works as intended then :)

00:59:24 mircea_popescu: lol

01:00:51 mircea_popescu: http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Steve-Carell-Ellie-Kemper-Pop-Champagne-For-To-Celebrate-The-New-Year-.gif

01:15:31 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/please-remove-this-user-from-this-forum.292032/#post-5730099

01:15:32 ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum. | Bitcointa.lk

01:15:35 mircea_popescu: lol maged trying to be the sly cat.

01:15:39 mircea_popescu: bwahahaha

01:16:07 mircea_popescu: is this guy actually gmaxwell or just similarly spineless ?

01:17:03 BingoBoingo: Maybe a bit of both?

01:17:29 mircea_popescu: can you be a bit of both ?

01:20:13 BingoBoingo: Well, maybe there is some simple minded psychotic disease passing through people who think they moderate important parts of bitcoin infrastructure that just suck. And this disease is spread through fucking gmaxwell

01:20:54 antephialtic: ?? why the hate for gmaxwell?

01:20:58 mircea_popescu: gmaxwell got laid ?!

01:21:03 mircea_popescu: impossibru

01:21:16 BingoBoingo: Well, maybe by Maged.

01:21:45 mircea_popescu: antephialtic not rly hate, but for the usual reason neckbeads fail to make it in human society.

01:21:51 mircea_popescu: he has those clammy qualities.

01:22:37 asciilifeform: neckbeard == fellow whom age has taught nothing?

01:22:45 antephialtic: ah, I have to admit I enjoy his opinions on cryptography related matters.

01:22:57 BingoBoingo: This stuff really pops up in most internet fora where the operators develop a pretense of importance and being cereal.

01:22:59 mircea_popescu: neckbeard = 30something male with poor hygiene, lack of socialisation and a monitor tan

01:23:34 mircea_popescu: antephialtic most neckbeards make excellent worhorses. doesn't mean anyone would want them i nthe house.

01:23:52 asciilifeform: richard stallman...?

01:24:37 antephialtic: a friend of mine works in the same building as stallman. says he does all kinds of weird shit in the office

01:24:41 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't go as far as rms.

01:24:53 mircea_popescu: guy's weird, but not desocialised.

01:25:02 antephialtic: but rms is a greybeard. a neckbeard who is respected widely for technical contributions

01:25:11 antephialtic: and has grown senile

01:25:20 mircea_popescu: well senility aside, there's more to it than that.

01:25:34 asciilifeform: rms is a special case. he used to be a fairly sociable creature before his motherland was burned to the ground.

01:25:38 mircea_popescu: there's a deep understanding of what humanity is all about, that someone as fucking weird as dostoievski could exhibit nevertheless

01:26:48 pankkake: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-litecoin-ltc-x11-hardfork-at-block-564-480.291272/ lol

01:26:49 ozbot: [ANN] Litecoin [LTC] X11 hardfork at block 564,480 | Bitcointa.lk

01:26:56 mircea_popescu: hm

01:27:12 pankkake: interesting experiment though - how could a hostile hardfork be received in bitcoin

01:27:24 mircea_popescu: old news tho neh ?

01:27:34 asciilifeform: i thought every alt was a 'hostile fork' ?

01:27:56 pankkake: of the code, not of the chain

01:28:04 mircea_popescu: pankkake https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/450654561947369472

01:29:04 antephialtic: I think forking the chain is interesting, would give a lot of incentive for miners and users to switch if the tech was actually better

01:29:27 antephialtic: dogecoin has intentionally forked at least once to switch the block reward algo

01:29:48 mircea_popescu: a hardfork is a major event, but definitely not impossible.

01:29:54 antephialtic: but with bitcoin it would be a lot more dangerous as many merchants would get scammed while their were still multiple viable forks

01:30:15 antephialtic: would be very damaging to trust unless it was done extremely carefully

01:30:35 mircea_popescu: Hardforking BTC and LTC to X11 would be pretty awesome.

01:30:35 mircea_popescu: And it would be a great way to stick it to the mega banker elite class who invested billions in Asic hardware.

01:30:35 mircea_popescu: Wtf is the point of crypto if a bank can simply mine all the coins themselves, the entire point of crypto was to get away from elitist bankers

01:30:42 mircea_popescu: then again theres that consideration.

01:30:51 mircea_popescu: "bitcoin is here to solve my own problems!!1"

01:31:10 mircea_popescu: antephialtic how exactly would the merchants be scammed ?

01:31:30 asciilifeform: if one is to do something, even something foolish, it ought to be done right. cellular automaton proof-of-work.

01:31:44 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: you send them coins while they are still on the old chain

01:31:51 mircea_popescu: so ?

01:32:00 antephialtic: while double spending on the new chain

01:32:01 mircea_popescu: a hard fork is a political event. they get the old chain coins they chose.

01:32:07 mircea_popescu: or the new chain coins they chose.

01:32:28 antephialtic: yes, but many merchants don't know much about how bitcoin works

01:32:34 mircea_popescu: since the fork will NEVER resolve, tyhere's no scamming.

01:32:35 mircea_popescu: tough.

01:32:57 antephialtic: yes, but bad for everyone if less merchants accept it because they lose trust in the tech

01:33:43 mircea_popescu: a war is a war.

01:33:54 mircea_popescu: when people go to war, they couldn't care less about foreign markets or whatever the fuck.

01:35:32 antephialtic: also, the chain with the asics will have much better network security than the new X11 chain, so many rational merchants would stay

01:36:21 mircea_popescu: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

01:36:26 mircea_popescu: Here?s are the reasons:

01:36:26 mircea_popescu: We have not come across a proof of work algorithm that is truly ASIC-proof and quick to verify. All alternatives will only delay the problem, and at a considerable cost.

01:36:32 mircea_popescu: guy figured it out, apparently.

01:36:45 mircea_popescu: antephialtic in the case of the litecoin fork, yes.

01:36:47 asciilifeform: didn't i post a perfectly usable counter-example?

01:37:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform give them a decade. reading these logs is slow work.

01:38:39 antephialtic: asciilifeform: what are the characteristics of a cellular automaton PoW that make it resistant to an ASIC implementation?

01:39:06 asciilifeform: antephialtic: you can demand an arbitrarily-large 'playing field'

01:39:27 antephialtic: so memory hardness?

01:40:24 asciilifeform: antephialtic: correct. and, if you're clever, you can have difficulty ramp up to outpace any conceivable growth in vlsi density.

01:40:44 asciilifeform: so hashers are stuck using external dram - or even disk, if you're sadist

01:41:10 antephialtic: hah. If you want to require disk, you can do proof-of-storage instead of PoW

01:41:44 asciilifeform: nsacoin.

01:41:48 asciilifeform: no thanks

01:41:56 antephialtic: http://cs.umd.edu/~amiller/permacoin.pdf

01:42:14 antephialtic: sorry for the PDF

01:42:21 asciilifeform: the problem with any such experiment is that, ultimately, 'the race is to the swift.'

01:42:32 asciilifeform: and the lamers aren't going to like who that turns out to be

01:43:09 mircea_popescu: ^

01:43:22 asciilifeform: that is, even a hypothetical permanently 'asic-proof' algo rewards... botnets.

01:43:29 mircea_popescu: there is the problem. it's all trying to somehow build equality out of technology.

01:43:39 mircea_popescu: cryptocoins are here to bring inequality back to its proper size

01:43:43 mircea_popescu: not in any way reduce it.

01:43:58 asciilifeform: there's possible merit to the experiment if you have a specific enemy in mind, who Must Die (tm), rather than some foggy notion of 'equality'

01:44:55 antephialtic: I don't think cryptocoins will make the world any more egalitarian. Probably less so, as their widespread use would deny the state a lot of tax revenue

01:45:22 antephialtic: but I think that is inevitable, and if it is going to happen, I'd rather end up at the top instead of getting crushed in the transition

01:45:48 mircea_popescu: antephialtic but the whole argument behind scrypt,. and behind asic-resistence, and all that jazz is "other people than us have better resources and are being rewarded for this."

01:46:10 antephialtic: and to that I say, that's just how the world works

01:46:10 pankkake: so altcoins are socialism?

01:46:15 mircea_popescu: it's pure jealousy, and well... that's not part of the laws of nature.

01:46:30 antephialtic: This guy gets it: http://blog.gardeviance.org/2013/11/a-spoiler-for-future-bitcoin.html

01:46:37 antephialtic: even if he doesn't like the outcome

01:46:38 mircea_popescu: pankkake not altcoins, but teh people bitching about how other people are eating "their" share of the pie are.

01:46:43 asciilifeform: if you're willing to sign under 'i wish victory to botnet artists but not semiconductor makers', you can work with that.

01:46:59 pankkake: yeah, I've seen that in people praising Bernankoin without getting it

01:48:08 mircea_popescu: antephialtic seems just a rehash of older material really.

01:48:54 pankkake: by the way: http://blog.oleganza.com/post/79783931404/idea-of-a-useful-altcoin (last two paragraphs)

01:49:07 mircea_popescu: "Austerity measures will have taken the route of unprecedented and radical decimation of the state - everything from state provided healthcare to coastguards to income support to education will be practically gone replaced with numerous forms of bitcoin based insurance."

01:49:11 mircea_popescu: this is what, fraudsters cca 2012.

01:50:20 antephialtic: mp: I wasn't reasing fraudsters in 2012 :)

01:51:22 antephialtic: pankkake: I think that is wishful thinking

01:51:31 mircea_popescu: idiot b;logger.com. was gonna leave the guy a reply, but a well.

01:51:48 asciilifeform: i'm genuinely curious if any of the 'alt workfunction' folks are going for something other than 'equality!11'

01:52:09 antephialtic: mp: talk to him on twitter, he's pretty active

01:52:13 antephialtic: @swardley

01:53:39 antephialtic: pankakke: the solution to fixing bitcoin is not to make it more complex. that just increases the inertia of having multiple compatible implementations

01:54:15 pankkake: antephialtic: that's why I said last two paragraphs ;)

01:54:41 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/ < now you can read 2012 fraudsters antephialtic :p

01:54:42 ozbot: Bitcoin and the poor pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:55:28 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-politics-of-bitcoin/ that too i guess

01:55:29 ozbot: The politics of Bitcoin pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:59:26 KRS-One: .bait

01:59:27 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/d837eba941a57a96c6063c04b4b9ecfa/tumblr_n1mdnwSc7F1sajoh5o1_500.jpg

02:00:15 *: KRS-One presses random buttons on ozbot.

02:01:18 Jezzz: .bait

02:01:19 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/11ca367b44729fce0f7e80c22a9a5b55/tumblr_n14r651qYa1rudoyyo1_1280.jpg

02:01:28 Jezzz: .d

02:01:29 ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 837 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.2493% in 4d 22h 8m 25s

02:03:23 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: the first post was quite good

02:04:29 antephialtic: will be interested to see you two fight it out on twitter. his opinions (on politics at least) seem to be the polar opposite of yours

02:04:59 antephialtic: I'm sure this will be quite entertaining to you as well: http://blog.gardeviance.org/2014/03/how-to-fix-bitcoin.html

02:05:15 antephialtic: his recipe for how the government could "fix" bitcoin

02:05:36 antephialtic: his thoughts: "Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility. The laissez faire economic system is an extreme mindset of some of the more ardent supporters of Freidmanism and the Chicago School. There is no basis for assuming a beneficial society can be created without the state and in all likelihood i

02:05:36 antephialtic: t'll lead to a future consolidation of wealth, extremely low levels of social mobility and weak economic performance compared to countries that use a more mixed method. From a competition viewpoint this is not a good position."

02:06:46 MisterE: when was the last time a government "fixed" anything?

02:06:53 MisterE: seriously?

02:08:04 antephialtic: well, inventing the ARPAnet was one kind of cool thing

02:08:18 MisterE: Like lawyers and consultants they thrive on problems not on solving them heh

02:08:29 MisterE: ok I'll concede arpanet :)

02:08:38 Duffer1: nasa

02:08:44 MisterE: +2

02:08:54 Duffer1: that's all i got..

02:08:56 asciilifeform: it seems odd, to say the least, to lump together projects done on embezzled government coin, and ones planned/ordered by bureaucrats.

02:08:57 Duffer1: oh highways

02:09:11 MisterE: well the were nice but are fallig apart now

02:09:18 asciilifeform: same for any idiot organization - see history of 'unix'

02:09:18 MisterE: those grades are the most vluable though

02:09:26 MisterE: can be repaved or whatever

02:10:23 mircea_popescu: ahahaha diablo 3 apparently still thinks it exists, made update, costs 40 bux

02:10:36 asciilifeform: just about every interesting technology attributed to a mega-organization was done on 'stolen time.'

02:10:57 antephialtic: regardless of your thoughts on welfare, with regards to science their are many avenues of basic research that cannot be justified from a pure ROI standpoint yet have long term benefits to technological advancement. Such as the development of pure mathematics, etcetra

02:11:23 antephialtic: hard to see how such pursuits would be funded without a system of universities (and thereby the state that funds it)

02:11:52 MisterE: I wish when government funded that kind of research the first priority was not always to weaponize it if possible

02:12:03 asciilifeform: mr. mold had a good tidbit on this:

02:12:07 asciilifeform: 'The basic problem is that the robber-barons of Silicon Valley, unlike their Victorian forebears, do not realize that, if they want all this science, they will actually have to pay for it - themselves. Instead, they look at their tax forms and think: I gave at the office. But they didn't. They gave to scientocracy. Now, they need to figure out how to patronize science - or there will be no science. Just scient

02:12:07 asciilifeform: ific Bondo, sanded to perfection and painted with meticulous care.'

02:12:14 asciilifeform: (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2010/01/hanson-moldbug-debate.html)

02:12:14 MisterE: you need a state with a surplus to do that too

02:13:36 mircea_popescu: antephialtic if you think the welfare state did anything for the advancement of pure mathematics...

02:13:53 mircea_popescu: look up perelman sometime./

02:14:34 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: not the welfare state, but the state, certainly

02:14:39 mircea_popescu: not at all.

02:14:45 mircea_popescu: the state is everywhere and all the time a drawback.

02:15:01 MisterE: the other thing about the 'intangible benefits' of research and exploration is that it inspires and this is so very much lacking in todays youth. When we were walking on the moon people were amazed and wanted to be engineers, nothing like that now. The biggest value to come out of the Apollo project was the increased interest in science.

02:15:11 mircea_popescu: not that people can't rehash the ancient arguments re the importance of the church and present them de novo in favour of the state.

02:15:17 mircea_popescu: but they're as false today as they were in 1700.

02:15:28 mircea_popescu: MisterE hunger inspires.

02:15:35 mircea_popescu: not "science".

02:15:56 MisterE: hunger inspires looking for food, not looking toward the stars heh

02:16:18 mircea_popescu: so you think.

02:16:25 mircea_popescu: but what would you know of it ?

02:16:40 mircea_popescu: nothing really, all the overfed know of hunger is their terror.

02:16:52 MisterE: nothing other than being a space enthusiast

02:17:15 MisterE: this topic comes up regularly in #space

02:17:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll patronize science just fine.

02:18:03 mircea_popescu: what i dislike is a bunch of fucktards going around with money that isn't theirs, muddying things up.

02:27:44 mike_c: omg. the log is remapping pathways in my brain. it's making me dyslexic.

02:28:14 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you gotta fix that thing srsly.

02:28:24 mike_c: it is funny though :)

02:29:17 kakobrekla: eh, let the girl have a day off

02:29:34 mircea_popescu: i dunno what i'll do tomorro morning.

02:29:49 mircea_popescu: maybe discover who satoshi really is...

02:31:20 mircea_popescu: antephialtic well your friend won't irc and i'm not about to argue with anyone on twitter, so i guess that's that.

02:32:33 antephialtic: eh, too bad

02:34:29 MisterE: Blogging is one thing and quick tweets are easy too but defending your positions in real time is another animal many are not prepared for.

02:34:49 MisterE: I've always been an IMer so prefer it

02:35:10 mircea_popescu: this is true.

02:37:18 antephialtic: agreed. additionally Many do not prefer to enter a potentially compromising conversation when the medium is written

02:37:29 antephialtic: if things go badly, the evidence will be everlasting

02:37:40 kakobrekla: anyway, just add ?stopitkako if you really need a clean log nao.

02:37:59 mircea_popescu: lol

02:38:04 mircea_popescu: wait was this for april fools' ?

02:38:16 kakobrekla: yea

02:38:22 mircea_popescu: awww!

02:38:27 mircea_popescu: well it is a cute joke lol

02:38:33 mircea_popescu: but thanks for the fix.

02:38:39 BingoBoingo: +2 Great troll

02:38:51 MisterE: oh yea, let the fooling begin!

02:39:01 mike_c: now do one on bitbet where all the weights flip!

02:39:04 ThickAsThieves: i enjoyed the garble, was a nice surprise reading logs on tablet

02:39:18 asciilifeform: is there really anyone left who doesn't understand that, if you're transmitting plaintext, 'the medium is written' always?

02:39:25 ThickAsThieves: these forum people now think my account was compromised

02:39:38 ThickAsThieves: this mentality is ...

02:39:44 ThickAsThieves: incurable

02:39:46 MisterE: lol just saw it great work kakobrekla :)

02:39:54 kakobrekla: thank you!

02:40:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people have peculiar interactions with the voices in their heads. it leads to fascinating conclusions.

02:40:58 mircea_popescu: http://szabo.best.vwh.net/history.html << szabo kicks ass btw.

02:40:59 ozbot: History and the Security of Property

02:41:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recently i was reading some vintage dan mocsny (circa '91) and spotted szabo in the thread...

02:42:02 mircea_popescu: they got along ?

02:42:08 ThickAsThieves: jimmothy is disappointed in me

02:42:09 asciilifeform: more or less.

02:44:47 asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.singles/5bYxszUQKDY/o8fkGj7yEzEJ

02:44:47 ozbot: Grupos de Google

02:44:49 antephialtic: a fool and his bitcoin are soon parted

02:45:59 asciilifeform: example of quality mocsny:

02:46:09 asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.singles/5bYxszUQKDY/05P-h5JY6YEJ

02:46:10 ozbot: Grupos de Google

02:46:53 mircea_popescu: da fuck is this google groups bs

02:47:13 asciilifeform: not my fault these bozos bought the world's only reasonably-complete usenet archive.

02:47:18 asciilifeform: ('dejanews')

02:48:28 mircea_popescu: le suck.

02:48:55 ThickAsThieves: new michael jackson album coming

02:49:05 ThickAsThieves: produced by timbland

02:49:12 ThickAsThieves: which means itll be great or horrible

02:49:34 ThickAsThieves: he does a pretty good job with timberlake'

02:49:49 ThickAsThieves: but i suspect the powers that be will pummel him into mediocrity

02:49:59 mircea_popescu: how is it a mj album

02:50:19 ThickAsThieves: unreleased tracks, redone music to be 'modernized'

02:50:22 MisterE: probably samples of unreleased studio stuff

02:50:39 pankkake: sounds fishy

02:50:45 ThickAsThieves: i'm surprised it took this long really

02:50:45 mircea_popescu: i wonder if this nonsense will become a trend.

02:50:50 decimation: guys someone who writes like dotcoin has hacked the log server and raped the logs!!!

02:50:52 ThickAsThieves: it's an old trend

02:51:01 mircea_popescu: decimation lol best 1 so far.

02:51:01 MisterE: indeed been around for a long time

02:51:12 ThickAsThieves: many posthumous albums come from the hip pop world

02:51:17 MisterE: 2Pac and BIG all had multiple albums after death

02:51:39 MisterE: but 2_ac had actually laid down the tracks in a premonition of his upcoming death he went on a recording binge

02:51:43 mircea_popescu: bounce check it out mang, you're now famous http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=92

02:52:00 ThickAsThieves: nice quote

02:52:26 MisterE: Wonder if he recalls making it

02:53:10 ThickAsThieves: the past is the past, only time will tell

03:04:50 cazalla: i wrote this song in 94'

03:08:01 artifexd: What the hell?!? http://www.reddit.com/r/celebs

03:08:53 artifexd: Oh. April Fools.

03:09:17 MisterE: artifexd: http://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead

03:09:39 MisterE: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/us-ukraine-crisis-lithuania-idUSBREA2K1HP20140321

03:09:39 ozbot: Lithuania bans Russian TV station over 'lies'

03:10:14 mircea_popescu: .

03:10:21 mircea_popescu: lol wouldn't cn love to sell reddit.

03:11:32 pankkake: funny stuff, I was reading /r/thewalkingdead when they switched on the thing

03:12:13 diametric: mircea_popescu: reddit's not owned by cn anymore

03:12:19 diametric: as of august 2012 if I remember correctly

03:12:25 mircea_popescu: no ?

03:12:33 diametric: Though, CN's parent company still holds a significant portion of shares they're independently owned

03:13:13 mircea_popescu: still owned by advance

03:13:33 mircea_popescu: idun see much diff.

03:13:58 diametric: Maybe so, I vaguely remember at the time of it happening a lot of organization changes took place but its been a while now.

03:15:43 mircea_popescu: "Charlie Shrem, known for his alleged involvement in the Silk Road scandal, is in talks with US prosecutors for a plea bargain."

03:15:47 pankkake: http://www.coindesk.com/reddit-ceo-thinks-world-dogecoin-slams-crazy-bitcoiners/

03:16:10 mircea_popescu: "According to a March 28th filing in Manhattan federal court, Assistant U.S. Attorney Serrin Turner has asked for the 24-year-old Shrem?s case to be postponed until April 28th."

03:17:10 antephialtic: AKA shrem is talking

03:17:23 asciilifeform: '?It couldn?t be stupider, and that?s why it?s brilliant,? he concluded.' << me brain dumped core.

03:17:26 antephialtic: and probably trying to incriminate others

03:17:48 MisterE: only reason to talk

03:19:20 antephialtic: well the other guy, BTCKing is definitely the bigger prize for the state since he was actually laundering SR money

03:19:31 antephialtic: Shrem was just being used, and too negligent to realize

03:19:35 MisterE: oh I thought BTCKing was done in

03:20:09 MisterE: the whole gaggle of them are retarded and deserve what they get

03:24:25 ThickAsThieves: shrem is 24?

03:24:31 ThickAsThieves: he looks closer to 42

03:24:57 antephialtic: its the natural jew hair

03:25:28 antephialtic: and the smoking of too many substances

03:26:29 mircea_popescu: he's in his 20s. thermos too. most of them are too young for this shit rly.

03:28:35 decimation: asciilifeform: Wong would mock those who use microscopes as hammers; his sophistocated set only use bespoke polished turds

03:28:43 asciilifeform: lol

03:29:22 ThickAsThieves: hell i'm too young and too old for this

03:31:41 mircea_popescu: decimation you familiar with the bespoke fucksmith ?

03:32:50 MisterE: http://whitecollarfraud.blogspot.com/2014/03/update-on-bitcoin-money-laundering-case.html

03:32:51 ozbot: White Collar Fraud: Update on Bitcoin Money Laundering Case: Both Defendants Are Talking to the Feds

03:36:32 decimation: is that from oglaf?

03:36:41 decimation: Your link on fraudsters had me laughing for a few hours

03:37:15 mircea_popescu: yeah, they came up wirth it

03:37:22 mircea_popescu: now i can't see bespoke without thinking of it.

03:38:36 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9qxdcq1b01r1biako1_1280.jpg

03:39:17 decimation: http://freakonomics.com/2014/03/27/why-everybody-who-doesnt-hate-bitcoin-loves-it-full-transcript/

03:39:49 decimation: ANDREESSEN: One of the characteristics of a new idea is all the experts who came up in the old regime look at it and laugh...Almost exactly 300 years ago, a Scottish economist, ironically, named John Law basically invented at the time this crazy idea of paper currency or fiat currency. ... And every economist on the planet 300 years ago thought that he was a complete lunatic. And so I think this is just the story, the recurring story of how

03:39:51 decimation: progress happens.

03:40:12 decimation: Except, anyone who takes bitcoin seriously would also think that John Law is a lunatic

03:40:27 mircea_popescu: notrly.

03:40:32 mircea_popescu: i dun think so for instance

03:42:00 mircea_popescu: the problem with paper money run by a government is exactly the same as the problem with a bitcoin run by government.

03:42:19 mircea_popescu: but it's not of the paper.

03:42:41 decimation: it sounds like trying to grasp both poles of a contradiction

03:42:54 mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?

03:43:14 chetty: keyword = government

03:43:23 decimation: it seems like it's not possible for bitcoin to be run by a government

03:43:33 decimation: assuming some level of permability in cross-border communications

03:43:49 mircea_popescu: im sure when law was writing it wasn't directly obvious that the thing'll end up as a welfare scam either.

03:44:15 decimation: that's a good point

03:44:30 mircea_popescu: that aside, obviously the technology is better, crypto chain > paper issuance.

03:44:43 mircea_popescu: but in the same sense the tech of a pistol is better than the tech of a sword.

03:44:53 mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with either of the two, up until they're being brandished by a thief.

03:45:36 decimation: if bitcoin is the new Venice, will not bitcoin also eventually form its own customs and laws, like Venice?

03:45:44 mircea_popescu: and sink, like venice ?

03:46:03 decimation: probably

03:46:10 MisterE: at the time though paper was an technology upgrade to other mediums of exchange

03:46:11 mircea_popescu: anyway it's already forming its own customs and laws.

03:46:24 MisterE: so reasonable historically

03:46:45 mircea_popescu: MisterE the best part is this : at the time, if i told a proponent that "govt will just monopolize it" he'd just have loled at me. "what are you talking about, ANYONE CAN ISSUE PAPER"

03:46:51 mircea_popescu: well... at the time this was true.

03:46:59 MisterE: yea

03:47:22 mircea_popescu: it didn't last so long, and of course for "very good reasons" (tm)

03:47:25 decimation: that's a good poing

03:47:53 MisterE: bitcoin comes with checks and balances built-in and can be upgraded

03:48:01 mircea_popescu: lol. so does paper.

03:48:09 decimation: meanwhile, the NY state regulator on bitcoin (from my link): LAWSKY: Yes, and I think my understanding and it was really from the day-two testimony when I asked that question again about programmable currency that that is one of the things that potentially you could have with the color coding. They also gave an example of a young person whose parents want to give them an allowance but want to make sure that it goes for certain things and not

03:48:11 decimation: other things.

03:48:14 decimation: sigh

03:48:14 mircea_popescu: you still gotta use them for them to work.

03:48:18 MisterE: heh in a way I guess

03:49:05 mircea_popescu: tech. 2000 years later, still not a silver bullet.

03:49:08 MisterE: there's no built-in check to the amount of fiat that can be created though

03:49:15 MisterE: so it's improving

03:49:39 mircea_popescu: MisterE in the same sense there's no built in check to the number of alt coins that can be created

03:49:42 MisterE: as fiat was an improvement over exchanging chickens and goats I guess

03:49:53 MisterE: true

03:49:55 mircea_popescu: fiat was not a replacement for barter

03:50:08 mircea_popescu: fiat grew out of goldsmith depositary receipts.

03:50:09 MisterE: I generally dont give alt coins much creedance but that may be a mistake

03:50:20 MisterE: no reason to say BTC will be the one that "wins"

03:50:50 mircea_popescu: but anyway, tis late. we'll continue... tomorrow. which is another day.

03:51:04 MisterE: nn

03:51:41 chetty: MisterE: bitcoin comes with checks and balances built-in and can be upgraded//like the US constitution

03:52:09 MisterE: yea problem there is no one has gotten of their ass and upgraded the constitution forever

03:52:40 decimation: http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/chartism.pdf "Conclusive facts are inseperable from inconclusive except by a head that already understands and knows."

03:54:42 chetty: all good ideas get hijacked eventually. we just try to make best use of the window

04:02:41 VanCleef: seedcoin is a massive scam i suspect

04:36:21 nubbins`: !t h smg

04:36:28 nubbins`: dat discount

04:37:08 Mats_cd03: anyone have a link to the chart of bitcoin holders in the world

04:38:45 Mats_cd03: it has something about n numbers of holders having xx% of the holdings

04:42:10 kakobrekla: Panacea perf for March: +0.26%

04:51:21 kakobrekla: oh yeah i forgot to say, take that doctor forehead.

05:03:04 cazalla: Mats_cd03: something like this? http://bitcoinrichlist.com/charts/percent-bitcoins-owned-by-richest

05:12:22 Mats_cd03: no

05:43:37 [\]: so should I get more popcorn?

05:43:39 [\]: anything good?

05:47:38 BingoBoingo: Well, bitcointa.lk overtook itcointalk.org in officialness. Shrem and Failla are racing to negotiate with prosecutors first.

05:50:40 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/please-remove-this-user-from-this-forum.292032/page-2#post-5731773

05:50:42 ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum. | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk

05:50:57 BingoBoingo: Apparently Maged thinks the MPOE-PR account was sold or hacked.

06:08:18 [\]: I agree with ThickAsThieves

06:13:48 Apocalyptic: dat drama

07:55:07 moiety: kakobrekla: here?

07:56:33 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

07:56:57 moiety: BB :D hihi how was your weekend?

08:00:01 BingoBoingo: moiety: Not bad

08:01:46 moiety: BingoBoingo: glad to hear it :) how epic are the logs?!

08:01:59 BingoBoingo: moiety: They look grand today

08:02:01 BingoBoingo: http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/04/01/029249/dvrs-used-to-attack-synology-disk-stations-and-mine-bitcoin

08:02:02 ozbot: DVRs Used To Attack Synology Disk Stations and Mine Bitcoin - Slashdot

08:03:20 moiety: lolol "also run a bitcoin miner"

08:04:09 cads2: huh

08:04:27 cads2: I failed to be able to explain to my romanian cousin the notion of "nerd"

08:05:22 cads2: she couldn't connect the idea of someone really smart with the image of someone really socially inept

08:05:30 cads2: I wonder if in romania nerds simply fail to be socially inept

08:06:33 cads2: yes romanian nerds will hack some shit, but we'll also take some shots, snort some blow, and play with some women.

08:06:57 cads2: probably concurrently.

08:08:54 BingoBoingo: Reads so much better logified

08:17:37 moiety: some some some

08:17:39 moiety: lol

08:17:47 moiety: im loving this

08:18:58 moiety: BingoBoingo: the disappearing blogger returned again, this time to hang around and wondered where you hung around but thinks this is a bit much for him. sends his regards though

08:19:20 BingoBoingo: moiety: Jumpy?

08:19:31 moiety: yeah baby #2 on the way!

08:19:37 BingoBoingo: Ah

08:19:52 moiety: saving doge for college funds lol

08:20:05 moiety: i never thought id see the day

08:47:24 MisterE: BTCe doin a little April 1 funny

08:51:08 antephialtic: glassdoor has a decent one: http://www.glassdoor.com/blog/salaries-glassdoor-bitcoins/

09:07:11 MisterE: heh

09:07:20 bounce: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/01/mpesa_mobile_money_transfer_service_launches_in_romania/

09:12:26 antephialtic: but will we see MPesaEx?

09:18:30 MisterE: this has gotten long: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549572.0

09:27:00 moiety: cant be as good as here MisterE

09:27:06 moiety: re btc-e

09:27:35 MisterE: the log?

09:27:47 MisterE: yea it's just upside down

09:29:56 *: MisterE is jumping out at 497 to book $50 profit :)

09:46:01 andreas_: ;;ticker

09:57:47 MisterE: ;;premium btce

09:58:18 MisterE: ;;premium btceusd

09:58:35 MisterE: ;;premium btce bitstamp

10:02:26 VanCleef: ;;premium btce huobi

10:02:37 VanCleef: racists

10:07:12 MisterE: lel

11:14:06 chetty: http://blog.freenode.net/2014/04/googleplusfreenode/

11:19:20 jadne: chetty: so terrible

11:19:25 jadne: hardly even counts as trying

11:21:55 punkman: !t m x.eur

12:04:35 thestringpuller: http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/bitcoin-could-revolutionize-voting

12:04:48 thestringpuller: ;;google site:fraudsters.com electoral bitcoin

12:04:57 thestringpuller: ;;google site:fraudsters.com electoral system bitcoin

12:10:47 mircea_popescu: morning good channel

12:11:20 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

12:11:24 jurov: morning!

12:12:35 mircea_popescu: ;;coin

12:13:18 nubbins`: morning

12:13:23 nubbins`: fuckin snowpocalypse here

12:13:25 nubbins`: 40cm overnight

12:13:39 thestringpuller: poor canadians

12:13:45 thestringpuller: they don't get spring time

12:13:46 nubbins`: i'm waiting for mother nature to pop out and say APRIL FOOLS LELELEL

12:14:12 mircea_popescu: nubbins` tis global warming.

12:14:35 nubbins`: one of the biggest mistakes ever was referring to man-made climate change as such

12:14:39 mircea_popescu: deck the halls in boughs of snowy

12:14:43 mircea_popescu: lalalala la la la laaa

12:15:08 antephialtic: in other news, coinbase may have been hacked.

12:15:16 mircea_popescu: i suspect one of the biggest mistakes ever would be to try and rescue the stupidity of global warming by semantics.

12:15:28 mircea_popescu: antephialtic myeah.

12:15:40 mircea_popescu: except you know, they are "professional" and thus fail to communicate.

12:16:03 antephialtic: they had a security issue that allowed user accounts to be enumerated, and I suspect that is the problem, that scammers are trying to combine that with fake info and sell as a real dump

12:16:15 antephialtic: but the hacker also has names associated with accounts

12:16:38 antephialtic: and offered to give password hash + last 4 digits of credit card if I pm'd him my email (which I didn't)

12:16:50 antephialtic: somewhat concerning

12:17:08 nubbins`: someone shared this in -otc earlier

12:17:08 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/RzWipJFb

12:17:09 ozbot: ,-----. ,--. - Pastebin.com

12:17:12 antephialtic: I don't have any funds in coinbase, but they are a major point of centralization

12:17:21 jurov: well, i'm looking how will mircea call it when when half of oceania finally drowns

12:17:35 jurov: prolly he'll just call them stupid and move on

12:17:35 nubbins`: jurov: "all a big scam" ;p

12:17:41 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/450692492741320705 antephialtic :p

12:17:42 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: http://t.co/KE3CB9NVZq Today ...

12:17:54 nubbins`: OH MY GOD A SNOW PLOW

12:18:04 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: that is the aformentioned user email enumeration issue

12:18:06 nubbins`: don't i just feel silly for shovelling a walking path down the middle of my street

12:18:09 mircea_popescu: jurov half of "oceania" is what exactly, some islands ?

12:18:15 mircea_popescu: oceania is not a thing

12:18:15 antephialtic: the hackers claim to have actually pwned coinbase

12:18:21 jurov: oceania are islnds by definition

12:18:35 mircea_popescu: jurov just saying, i called it stupid and moved on when i was about 9

12:18:42 mircea_popescu: has nothing to do with this

12:18:49 jurov: ah "not a thing"... another mp's canned reply

12:19:32 mircea_popescu: it's not canned, i make them up fresh.

12:19:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform forwarded you some mile long email, mostly because i have no consideration for your time apparently.

12:20:08 mircea_popescu: but also because who knows, could be a comedy goldmine.

12:20:54 mircea_popescu: jurov no but seriously, what, some coral reefs ? some volcanic islands a mile wide ? this is something someone should care about ?

12:21:02 mircea_popescu: tickle the volcanoes, make a whole new "oceania"

12:22:00 mircea_popescu: antephialtic myeah.

12:23:24 antephialtic: anyways, its just alarming because the full name stuff is apparently real and doesn't seem possible to have been acquired by the email enumeration attack

12:23:42 mircea_popescu: probably leveraged it.

12:23:54 antephialtic: probably.

12:23:55 moiety: wtf freenode+

12:23:56 mircea_popescu: as someone said, when therer's a cockroach in plain sight, that's never the only cockroach around.

12:24:25 antephialtic: yeah I suppose they could have just used the emails to google for the names and then released that as a "partial dump"

12:24:45 antephialtic: when all they really had was the emails, and they were trying to get some idiot to buy their fake dump

12:25:23 jurov: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml

12:25:24 ozbot: Sea Level Trends - NOAA Tides & Currents

12:25:37 mircea_popescu: they also released the known but apparently not widely known fact that coinbase is forwarding all tx history to teh us alphabet soup on a daily basis.

12:25:44 jurov: here the north sees sea level going down because glaciers melt and earth goes up because of reduced weight

12:25:46 nubbins`: jurov: http://imgur.com/Ydmf7Xl

12:26:10 mircea_popescu: hahaha

12:26:16 nubbins`: XD

12:26:29 jurov: but in tropics, everyone who lives in few meters above seal level is going to have problem sooner or later

12:26:31 nubbins`: trying to make the best of this april 1, the weather isn't helping

12:26:46 jurov: nubbins` yup :)

12:26:48 antephialtic: mp: yeah the hacker claimed to have found a file on their server called "compliance_dailysftp.rb" that uploaded a daily dump to IRS/FinCEN/FBI

12:27:00 mircea_popescu: jurov everyone is going to have problems sooner or later anyway. that's the definition of problems.

12:27:08 antephialtic: I asked them to pastebin it, then the guy told me to fuck off :)

12:27:28 mircea_popescu: antephialtic there's reasons we don't trust coinbase after all.

12:27:30 antephialtic: the only credible thing about that was that it is known their site is implemented in ruby on rails

12:27:47 nubbins`: what site isn't?!

12:27:49 mircea_popescu: no, i'll certify it if you care.

12:27:49 nubbins`: (lel)

12:27:53 jurov: as long as the problem don't cause mass migrations, it's fine

12:28:10 mircea_popescu: jurov well mass migrations out of oceania seems to be against your definition of oceania

12:28:17 mircea_popescu: mass migrations out of the tropics have been a thing since the 50s

12:28:19 mircea_popescu: the 1850s.

12:28:25 jurov: southeast asia will be the next

12:28:31 mircea_popescu: because the tropics suck ass, because they had run a welfare system for centuries.

12:29:00 nubbins`: i, for one, am looking forward to warmer summers, if not a drastic increase in the price of food

12:29:00 jurov: nubbins`: you forgot to draw welfare/socialist button

12:29:10 nubbins`: jurov i wanted to strike while the iron was hot ;(

12:29:17 nubbins`: i even forgot the "global warming" button

12:29:20 mircea_popescu: nubbins` ya srsly, how about you make a much bigger board ? this topic deserves some attention

12:30:25 nubbins`: anyway, re: global warming, what are ya, michael crichton? ;p

12:31:07 mircea_popescu: who's that ?

12:31:26 mircea_popescu: "was an American best-selling author"

12:31:36 mircea_popescu: by now that's pretty much become my "close page" cue

12:31:47 nubbins`: heh.

12:31:53 nubbins`: read his book "state of fear", you'd love it

12:32:06 nubbins`: he wrote jurassic park, among others

12:32:15 nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Fear

12:32:16 ozbot: State of Fear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

12:32:42 nubbins`: "Most climate scientists dispute Crichton's science as being error-filled and distorted,[1][2][3][4][5][6] and it was described as "pure porn for global warming deniers" by one skeptical science journalist. [7]"

12:33:19 mircea_popescu: anyway. me leling at the pseudoscience of others does not promote me to the rank of pseudoscience author.

12:33:50 nubbins`: crichton was interesting in that he's the only novelist i can think of who included a lengthy bibliography in each book

12:34:28 nubbins`: "In March 2006, [journalist Michael] Crowley wrote a strongly critical review of State of Fear, focusing on Crichton's stance on global warming. In the same year, Crichton published the novel Next, which contains a minor character named "Mick Crowley", who is a Yale graduate and a Washington D.C.based political columnist. The character was portrayed as a child molester with a small penis. The

12:34:28 nubbins`: character does not appear elsewhere in the book."

12:34:58 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

12:35:08 mircea_popescu: this i can get behind.

12:36:46 nubbins`: anyway, lels aside, he wrote good fiction. his early stuff -- the andromeda strain, the terminal man, the great train robbery, eaters of the dead, congo... all good

12:37:07 nubbins`: almost all of his novels were eventually made into shitty movies, ghosts of their former selves

12:37:10 nubbins`: but that's the way it goes

12:37:38 mircea_popescu: not necessarily.

12:37:45 mircea_popescu: you don't HAVE TO option the book

12:37:53 nubbins`: well, ^

12:38:06 mircea_popescu: not anymore than you have to be "professional" on tardstalk or w/e.

12:38:12 nubbins`: you don't HAVE TO write your critics into subsequent novels as micro-dick diddlers either :D

12:38:20 mircea_popescu: no, that you have to do.

12:38:26 nubbins`: heh.

12:38:42 mircea_popescu: there's haves and then there's have nots, see ?

12:39:04 antephialtic: any of you ever read jonathan carroll?

12:39:06 nubbins`: ^ is that a button or a switch? ;D

12:39:26 nubbins`: ante nope

12:39:38 mircea_popescu: nubbins` lmao the switch is in here : http://fraudsters.com/2011/cum-se-bate-femeia/

12:39:38 nubbins`: name a good one

12:39:42 antephialtic: surrealist fiction. highly enjoyable. I recommend the Land of Laughs

12:39:50 nubbins`: heh!

12:40:20 antephialtic: its a bit sentimental for the crypto-anarchist type, but I enjoy it nonetheless

12:40:29 mircea_popescu: kinda looking forward to a full edition mp space cadet kbd.

12:41:21 nubbins`: antephialtic: as someone who's into g.g. marquez, i don't mind sentimentalism or surrealism ;D

12:42:03 nubbins`: snowplow just came and pushed the contents of the street back onto my front step. gotta get back outside

12:43:37 mircea_popescu: enjoy!

12:44:01 antephialtic: random question: anyone ever tried to reset satoshi's email password before? only required info is birthdate

12:44:26 antephialtic: i doubt he was dumb enough to leave any identifying info there, but it would be interesting nonetheless

12:45:20 mircea_popescu: well how would we know what someone tried ?

12:45:26 mircea_popescu: have you ?

12:54:07 antephialtic: i've tried before, but after 3 (uninformed) guesses, the account got temporarily locked. Seems pretty reasonable to do over a long period of time (assuming gmx isn't smart enough to stop it)

12:54:18 antephialtic: it would probably be easier to just bribe a gmx employee

12:55:46 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/609/bitcoin-difficulty-to-fall#b32

12:55:50 ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin difficulty to fall

12:55:53 mircea_popescu: check that shit out. falling, srsly ?

13:01:38 chetty: http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/03/31/covered-california-sends-deaf-callers-to-hotline-offering-hot-ladies/

13:01:38 ozbot: Covered California Sends Deaf Callers To Hotline Offering ‘Hot Ladies’ « CBS Sacramento

13:03:48 antephialtic: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard.html?hp

13:04:28 antephialtic: man, israel just owns the US. How is it that Israel and Palestine are the ones in conflict, yet, the US is making concessions??

13:04:33 mircea_popescu: the new and much easier to read mpoe statement :

13:04:33 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/mpoe-march-2014-statement/

13:04:35 ozbot: MPOE, March 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:04:43 mircea_popescu: antephialtic gotta pay to play.

13:04:57 antephialtic: this is analogous to the judge allowing Charlie Shrem to bang his daughter in exchange for him accepting a plea bargain

13:05:08 antephialtic: makes no sense.

13:06:41 jurov: mpoe-pr no more????

13:06:51 chetty: Kerry want to claim he made mideast peace

13:07:19 mircea_popescu: jurov aye.

13:08:02 asciilifeform: i thought she just moved to new forum?

13:08:23 mircea_popescu: antephialtic no, it's much more like the judge allowing the two unkempt youths fuck his teenaged daughter in exchange of not having his car all scratched up.

13:08:31 pLambert: does she still get paid even though she got banned?

13:08:48 mircea_popescu: pLambert well she didn't get banned in march

13:09:04 mircea_popescu: what am i going to do, run mr scrooge's offices over here ?

13:09:06 pLambert: depends on where you live

13:09:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform she wants a break.

13:09:41 pLambert: Isn't that how you get rich, byy acting like scrooge? ;)

13:09:45 mircea_popescu: nah.

13:09:51 mircea_popescu: i got rich by acting like gotti.

13:10:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i marvel that she lasted this long - my dosimeter turns full black from just reading that phorum for a few min.

13:10:53 mircea_popescu: two years just about

13:10:55 mircea_popescu: actually...

13:11:21 mircea_popescu: hum the forum's down

13:11:27 mircea_popescu: but yes, feb 27th. she made it 25 months.

13:13:06 mircea_popescu: !t hl rent

13:14:07 ColdHardMetal: I'd say you got your money's worth.

13:15:12 mircea_popescu: ColdHardMetal always a risky proposition, bitcoin divestment for fiat. who knows, maybe in a decade i live to regret it :p

13:15:43 ColdHardMetal: we can only hope :)

13:15:57 mircea_popescu: the strange things we hope for.

13:17:43 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

13:19:51 jurov: ⚠ URGENT: Сoinbase hacked. We just sent you a request to pay 999999.99999999 BTC (worth €354,414,446.99 EUR) using Coinbase.

13:19:52 jurov: Click here to sign in and complete this payment LOLOLOLOL

13:19:58 mircea_popescu: derp.

13:20:03 jurov: funniest scam i have seen recently

13:20:16 mircea_popescu: it's not really a scam

13:20:26 mircea_popescu: well... i mean.... uh.

13:20:53 mircea_popescu: it is a scam, obviously. it's not without coinbase's involvement tho, which is what i mean. htey're using the same infrastructure a legit merchant would be using.

13:21:03 ColdHardMetal: I got one of those from: fuckingspammer@mailinator.com at least they're forthright about it.

13:21:13 moiety: i thought it was an april fools thing because of the ridiculously high numbers

13:21:22 moiety: and the emails

13:21:33 jurov: moiety and you clicked, just for fun?

13:21:50 moiety: i dont use coinbase lol someone showed me what they got

13:22:38 mircea_popescu: twitter's been going pretty nuts over my repaste there.

13:24:09 moiety: tweeter? i havent been today yet

13:24:26 moiety: lies i did earlier

13:26:17 moiety: http://i.imgur.com/NCBsGMt.png?1 thats the coinbase snip i was shown

13:26:58 jurov: i received exactly the text i pasted (minus the trailing LOLOLOL)

13:27:17 cazalla: any truth to this? http://pastebin.com/RzWipJFb

13:27:23 cazalla: "Coinbase provides your full transaction history to the FBI, FinCEN and IRS every day. They are under a gag order."

13:28:21 mircea_popescu: cazalla log ?

13:28:55 thestringpuller: damn

13:29:04 thestringpuller: guess I'm bitcoins on the street for now on

13:29:07 VanCleef: thats pretty messed up if true

13:29:22 cazalla: mircea_popescu: it was on front page of /r/bitcoin

13:29:48 mircea_popescu: no i mean, the answer to your q is in teh log.

13:29:51 cazalla: maybe someone is just taking advantage of the leaked emails to spread more bullshit

13:29:58 mircea_popescu: notrly.

13:30:06 cazalla: yeah, i'm behind

13:30:08 mircea_popescu: there's a reason we don't trust the bitcoin scam foundation bunch.

13:31:12 antephialtic: here's a short convo I had with the hacker

13:31:14 antephialtic: http://0bin.net/paste/hzZBFHPDAbQwhsD2#vKhxu0kyCg8fFDyoU4ERmG8vyr0KK0xrO/3cqJ+lRLI=

13:31:15 ozbot: 0bin - encrypted pastebin

13:31:25 antephialtic: or, rather his messenger

13:31:55 antephialtic: (obviously I wasn't going to buy the dump)

13:32:01 antephialtic: just wanted to see if the hack was real

13:32:10 cazalla: ah, nubbins` already posted it, mb

13:32:36 ThickAsThieves: coinbase joke is stupid

13:33:27 VanCleef: so it is a joke tat?

13:37:03 ThickAsThieves: obv

13:37:34 ThickAsThieves: they were so scared people would think it was real they put hack in the subject of the email

13:37:56 ThickAsThieves: the point of April Fools is for the target to think it's real

13:38:19 ThickAsThieves: it's like Troll Appreciation Day

13:38:48 VanCleef: well 10 chinese bitcoiners did get executed today by the chinese gov, i don't think they're laughing

13:40:10 ThickAsThieves: no, but they are happy

13:41:10 cazalla: VanCleef: I googled that - chinese bitcoiners executed, first result is a laugh

13:41:17 cazalla: "Bitcoiners prefer finance and kindles to sex"

13:42:07 jurov: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2593755/The-subway-train-climb-skyscraper-Radical-new-concept-vertical-stations-New-york-London.html

13:42:07 ozbot: Hyper Speed Vertical Train Hub proposed for New York and London | Mail Online

13:42:10 VanCleef: reading

13:42:10 jurov: lol

13:42:27 jurov: the illustrations with the birds...

13:46:21 mircea_popescu: look kakobrekla now your ?trick is immortalised : https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/450987172683055104

13:55:15 moiety: ThickAsThieves: i thought as much because of the emails and the fact all the amounts were so stupidly high

13:56:49 ThickAsThieves: question, why are US capital gains tax tiers gated by the one-year term? and is it appropriate to apply such to bitcoin under those reasons.

13:57:27 VanCleef: i think its obamas fault

13:57:48 ThickAsThieves: i assume it's to promote longer terms of invetsment, but is that to benefit the dollar itself, or to promote longer-term invetsments in the economy of the country?

14:04:42 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you really must ask a tax accountant that.

14:05:17 mircea_popescu: my own guess would be that it's one of those quirks that end up in legislation of dual party systems

14:05:31 mircea_popescu: ie, some nonsense both sides were too tired and too tied down other places to argue

14:06:14 antephialtic: as you said, its to incentivize long term investment over short term speculation

14:06:36 ThickAsThieves: wow i thought youd have the usual make-me-feel-like-an-idiot answer

14:06:45 ThickAsThieves: i am disappoint

14:06:49 ThickAsThieves: :)

14:07:10 mircea_popescu: lol nubbins` add a switch pls.

14:07:12 ThickAsThieves: antephialtic, but why

14:07:39 nubbins`: you are [an idiot/wasting my time/first against the wall when i am king]

14:07:45 antephialtic: because old people who vote tend to buy and hold over the long term. but uncle sam wants some of those sweet profits from the prop traders on wall street

14:08:08 ThickAsThieves: i doubt thats the reason on record

14:08:13 antephialtic: and as a form of social engineering to make the capital markets more stable

14:08:19 mircea_popescu: sooo.... someone just sent a 2btc donation to mah fraudsters credits address ?

14:08:22 mircea_popescu: ty, kind sir.

14:08:33 ThickAsThieves: it would seem it promotes/protects inflation somewhat

14:08:41 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no, more like "if you throw this the op feels like an idiot"

14:08:46 nubbins`: heh

14:08:51 nubbins`: tat this is related to http://imgur.com/Ydmf7Xl

14:09:19 nubbins`: TBH "bitcoin is here to cum" might be my favourite

14:09:30 the20year2: Major news : Berkshire hathaway acquires RENT.

14:09:56 mircea_popescu: i thought they just bought the month of april.

14:10:21 the20year2: Just april the 1st

14:10:30 ThickAsThieves: har har

14:11:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you have a @twitter or too hipster for THAT too, in adition to atc ?

14:11:34 nubbins`: https://twitter.com/jon_keefe mostly abandoned

14:11:35 ozbot: JK (jon_keefe) on Twitter

14:11:38 mircea_popescu: MPOE-PR : "whai are you a muffin of pubic hair with a sausage finger?!"

14:11:52 mircea_popescu: the obvious answer being, "because that's what nubbins` makes : sausages"

14:11:55 nubbins`: heh.

14:12:02 nubbins`: that's your beard

14:12:05 nubbins`: overhead shot obv

14:12:23 nubbins`: why is mpoe-pr a muffin of pubic hair with a sausage finger?

14:12:24 nubbins`: ;D

14:13:02 mircea_popescu: lol

14:14:15 mircea_popescu: the log's even better : mircea_popescu: a hair MPOE-PR you "whai : are of sausage a finger?!" pubic with muffin

14:14:15 mircea_popescu: 14:11:52

14:14:15 mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: makes nubbins` that's : being, obvious answer sausages" "because the what

14:15:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#596613 ftw

14:15:43 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

14:15:52 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell decimation epic quote, i shall use it!

14:21:29 mircea_popescu: so lemme push everyone's favourite button then.

14:21:30 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/c8a06a01154cdf78222c69e79f4190f4/tumblr_mj8qtnW5CH1s7eb1eo1_500.jpg

14:22:13 nubbins`: haha

14:22:51 locksmith: dude my girlfriend's sitting 1 inch from me

14:23:07 nubbins`: better stop clicking links then

14:23:09 ThickAsThieves: welcome to the internet, gf

14:23:17 mircea_popescu: why so short ?

14:23:20 mircea_popescu: 1 inch isn't much

14:23:36 ThickAsThieves: it's the leftove rinch

14:23:42 nubbins`: 14:22:51locksmith:inch from me sitting dude my girlfriend's 1

14:23:52 locksmith: haahhaahah

14:23:59 mircea_popescu: lol good one tat.

14:24:20 mircea_popescu: locksmith http://fraudsters.com/2014/cunt-size-discussion-this-is-guaranteed-to-be-weird/ << read her that for a bedtime story.

14:24:51 ThickAsThieves: "inside" jokes ftw

14:25:33 ThickAsThieves: in other news: http://www.newsit.com.cy/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=134250&catid=31

14:25:49 locksmith: just read the article as well, I can translate it for anyone interested

14:26:08 mircea_popescu: locksmith go ahead

14:26:12 mircea_popescu: summary tho pls.

14:26:31 locksmith: yep. (it's saying stuff discussed over at btctalk but whatever)

14:26:43 locksmith: title: "NeoBee ceo nowhere to be found"

14:27:09 locksmith: - trading of company's stock halted

14:27:10 moiety: http://imgur.com/blog/2014/03/31/introducing-imgur-viralizer/

14:27:11 ozbot: imgur: the simple imgur blog

14:27:50 mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be ironic if neobee ends up getting more press for free now than they got back when they were paying for it ?

14:28:04 locksmith: they're saying that them (newsit.com,cy) as well as Politis newspaper tried to contact the company and could not get ahodl of them

14:28:15 novusordo: "Coinbase provides your full transaction history to the FBI, FinCEN and IRS every day. They are under a gag order."

14:28:18 antephialtic: TaT: do you actually know why the shares stopped trading?

14:28:45 ThickAsThieves: i believe a reason was given publically, no?

14:29:04 locksmith: also the article goes on and on wondering how many people danny took money from

14:29:28 locksmith: and then just translates bits and pieces from the coindesk article

14:29:33 mircea_popescu: locksmith hopefully they don't keep on with this or else maged might ban newsit.com.cy

14:29:39 locksmith: including danny's supposed "quote"

14:29:41 antephialtic: "questionable trading"

14:29:53 antephialtic: ... what really happened

14:30:06 mircea_popescu: antephialtic my own theory, as a completely uninvolved observer, is this :

14:30:32 mircea_popescu: havelock is under a lot of pressure because all their scammy assets are turning into a visible loss, so rather than man up to it they prefer to simply close trading as the bubbles pop.

14:31:17 VanCleef: i think havelock will close down sometime this year

14:31:22 ThickAsThieves: Neo compliance officer did make a formal recommendation to halt

14:31:36 locksmith: I'm an uninvolved observer as well but have 2 individual sources within Neo. the hard truth is that for the past week the employees could not get ahold of DB, and their paychecks will probably not be met for the month of March (they haven't been paid yet from what I know)

14:31:37 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/617/and-then-there-was-one/

14:31:39 ozbot: BitBet - And Then There Was One

14:31:58 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves locksmith these things seem a little contradictory.

14:32:02 antephialtic: (also uninvolved, just curious)

14:32:57 antephialtic: locksmith, seems like a very elaborate scam, no? why not just steal all the money after the IPO, why go to all the trouble of building a storefront and advertising, etc.

14:33:17 mircea_popescu: antephialtic i dunno that scam was ever seriously argued other than as a technicality.

14:33:26 antephialtic: and MP, that explains the trading freeze, not the disappearance of the CEO

14:34:04 antephialtic: regardless of the tradeing being stopped, surely a competent/engaged CEO would have issued a statement to reassure investors?

14:34:04 locksmith: I haven't called scam. all I'm saying is that they got to a point where they can't pay back their creditors. i.e. they owe over 150,000 euros to their marketing/pr firm Telia & Pavla BBDO

14:34:29 antephialtic: what about all the capital they raised?

14:34:34 antephialtic: down the toilet?

14:34:36 jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/comments/21x29e/a_new_forum_or_board_is_required/ WE BELIEVE

14:34:37 ozbot: A new forum or board is required : neobee

14:34:58 mircea_popescu: antephialtic didja read the http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-psychology-of-the-bagholder/ ?

14:35:18 antephialtic: mp: will do

14:35:32 antephialtic: just sayin, whatever the issue is, it isn't solely with havelock

14:35:32 jurov: ^ just posted clear example

14:35:50 antephialtic: ain't no drama like bitcoin drama

14:35:59 mircea_popescu: kinda why the price is up i guess.

14:36:05 mircea_popescu: bitcoin, still backed by lulz and drama.

14:36:16 jurov: yes, neobee causing bitcoin to soar

14:37:01 locksmith: also, something not said anywhere else: danny announced to his employees on thursday the 13th that he was left in his wallet with 100btc while someone overlooked into his pc and saw a bitstamp account with WAY more than that

14:37:13 antephialtic: bitcoin is a fractal of entertaining scams

14:38:07 lewicki: breaking the bitstamp 2fa is no small feet...

14:38:41 locksmith: I wouldn't be surprised if he was also deep into the karpeles thing, he was looking into a flight to go to japan from cyprus through dubai and couldn't find connecting flights at dubai

14:39:12 locksmith: lewicki - his account was locked in and someone saw it when danny was still on his pc

14:39:38 locksmith: all this are rumours of course, just to keep us entertained as the tower crumbles.

14:39:42 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

14:39:42 mircea_popescu: locksmith well sure, the guy kept trying to buy relevancy, first with his clueless stumble into the bf thing, then probably derping around mtgox,

14:40:05 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller report was out earlier btw.

14:40:15 thestringpuller: yea read it, poor mpoe-pr

14:40:28 thestringpuller: she's taking a break you said?

14:40:53 mircea_popescu: well originally it was ok, so moving over to .lk, but then she was like listen, can i have some time off nao ?

14:41:13 mircea_popescu: and i really don't see how i could've said no.

14:41:33 ThickAsThieves: things have a way of working themselves out sometimes

14:41:42 mircea_popescu: indubitably.

14:41:43 ThickAsThieves: she'll come back to obvious purpose prolly

14:42:13 thestringpuller: MPOE-PR deserves a holiday.

14:42:25 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as any person deserves their sanity.

14:42:46 mircea_popescu: i know few people who could've done it, what she did

14:42:47 mircea_popescu: and they're all women.

14:43:04 jurov: yes, she deserves. and yes

14:56:33 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell cads no, it's not that romanian nerds fail to be socially inept. is that romanian teenage queens fail to be socially apt, and so the nerds have no contrasting background to stand out against.

14:57:37 mircea_popescu: moiety wait, you're pregnant ?!

14:58:39 moiety: lolol! no i was passing on news about someone else, mircea_popescu XD

14:59:01 mircea_popescu: http://rt.com/news/britain-law-children-abuse-405/ < derpiest 1st of april thing yet.

14:59:51 chetty: only problem is - it is not a joke :(

15:00:27 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the part i don't understand are the bottom left buttons. an d and an a ? whay ?

15:00:28 moiety: "making them a scapegoat" - thought thats one of the reasons for having kids?

15:00:37 nubbins`: that's an O and an A

15:01:00 nubbins`: 'cause you're always saying "a a now i get it" or "o"

15:01:04 chetty: moiety, +1

15:01:32 nubbins`: as someone who grew up with these words being spelled "ah" and "oh", respectively, this always struck me as quaint

15:02:03 mircea_popescu: oic

15:02:25 mike_c: btcalpha accountants say: mpoe march revenue should be 180.37141356, not 139.62178334

15:02:34 mircea_popescu: well my a is an ah, but my o isn't really an oh. much more acute.

15:03:02 mircea_popescu: mike_c btcalpha accountants are indeed wise.

15:03:13 mike_c: buncha pencil pushers

15:03:41 moiety: i grew up with it spelt oh but i keep typing o since coming here lol

15:04:09 mircea_popescu: well mohiety, that'd be because you're flexible.

15:04:56 nubbins`: heh

15:05:05 nubbins`: mirceah pohpescu

15:06:07 nubbins`: time for shovelling (round 5)

15:06:30 mircea_popescu: nubbins` did i ever tell you about that one time i had to do it ?

15:06:57 moiety: lolol

15:07:17 mircea_popescu: http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

15:07:17 ozbot: Does Mt.Gox's CEO Have a Secret History of Committing Fraud?

15:07:27 mircea_popescu: at the risk of beating a dead, if fat, horse.

15:07:39 moiety: my friend dug out a race track for his dog in his garden

15:07:45 VanCleef: short answer, yes

15:07:56 VanCleef: very dodgy character

15:09:23 mircea_popescu: davout / pankkake what'd be your english rendition of "sourici?re" ?

15:09:39 davout: mousetrap?

15:10:24 mircea_popescu: well obviously

15:10:45 mircea_popescu: is it the lock-up in the police station where they keep people pre-warrant ?

15:10:52 davout: yes, that too

15:11:08 mircea_popescu: gawker's french is worse than mine.

15:11:59 mircea_popescu: you'd think, you know, for some progressive libtards wearing no bras because their mothers burned them in paris in 68

15:12:07 mircea_popescu: they'd have a more cursive mastery of that language.

15:12:16 davout: whatcha referring to?

15:12:22 mircea_popescu: earlier linked piece

15:12:28 mircea_popescu: http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

15:12:29 ozbot: Does Mt.Gox's CEO Have a Secret History of Committing Fraud?

15:12:30 davout: ah

15:13:02 davout: yes, they got the souricière thing wrong

15:13:20 davout: it doesn't refer to entrapment but more to the cell itself

15:13:28 mircea_popescu: right.

15:13:29 mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin community will surely learn a number of lessons from the Mt. Gox disaster, and here is a simple one: when investing in Bitcoin, make sure the guy you're trusting with your money doesn't have a secret past committing fraud. Even if that means finding someone who knows French."

15:13:35 mircea_popescu: that part at least is workable.

15:13:41 mircea_popescu: though they should take their own advice :D

15:13:50 davout: yes, the bitcoin community totally has a history of learning from lessons

15:14:32 mircea_popescu: vaguely related,

15:14:32 mircea_popescu: http://gawkersucks.blogspot.ro/2013/01/hey-jordan-sargent-fix-your-article.html

15:14:33 ozbot: Gawker Sucks: Hey Jordan Sargent: Fix your article

15:17:34 jurov: lol that's like "make sure you don't disclose anything to secret agent"

15:19:05 aclot: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21xcde/neo_bee_employees_unpaid_and_unable_to_contact/

15:19:35 aclot: :)

15:19:52 antephialtic: http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/comments/21xfdf/is_it_possible_the_person_selling_those_shares/

15:19:52 ozbot: Is it possible the person selling those shares was Danny Brewster? : neobee

15:20:10 antephialtic: lulz

15:20:14 aclot: bwah

15:20:56 mircea_popescu: much lol.

15:22:03 mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21xcde/neo_bee_employees_unpaid_and_unable_to_contact/cghcvfn

15:22:04 ozbot: JuicyGrabs comments on Neo & Bee employees unpaid and unable to contact CEO @BtcDanny

15:22:05 mircea_popescu: i like that part.

15:23:36 mircea_popescu: for my numerous crimes of having known about various future pops months/weeks in advance, i shall henceforth be known as mp_goldstein

15:24:48 antephialtic: <JuicyGrabs> I didn't "lose" anything because I don't invest for short term and to be swayed by trolls and paid shills. I used this chance to buy more.

15:25:56 VanCleef: mp_steinberg

15:26:34 mircea_popescu: which steinberg ?

15:26:41 chetty: mp_nostradamos

15:27:02 mircea_popescu: antephialtic he's fine, his investment is for the longest term.

15:27:15 antephialtic: infinite term.

15:27:57 jurov: till death do us part

15:28:27 mircea_popescu: st peter's book of investments.

15:31:16 antephialtic: they should have named the company herp & derp

15:32:22 mircea_popescu: the neo forum name was taken

15:33:40 mircea_popescu: soo, someone had pointed out an error with the bitbet dividend last month ?

15:35:33 ThickAsThieves: seems somewhat frequent to have numbers errors in mpex reports/divs

15:35:56 mircea_popescu: yup

15:36:13 ThickAsThieves: testing your devotees?

15:36:31 mircea_popescu: well i think there's less error here than the average, really

15:36:34 chetty: his calculator needs new batteries

15:36:37 mircea_popescu: just that my shit gets caught all the time

15:38:22 ThickAsThieves: ive removed btctalk from my bookmarks

15:38:35 ThickAsThieves: feels good to not check it anymore

15:40:56 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitbet-march-2014-statement/

15:40:58 ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

15:41:17 ThickAsThieves: i see an error!

15:41:51 mircea_popescu: what!

15:41:56 ThickAsThieves: April Fool's!

15:42:01 mircea_popescu: god dangit

15:42:06 ThickAsThieves: :)

15:42:34 ThickAsThieves: "It’s just fingershaped happenstance."

15:42:37 ThickAsThieves: lol

15:43:15 mircea_popescu: also since we're on bitbet, and since ppl are asking like http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/#c2703

15:43:31 mircea_popescu: anyone bored could make a tool to add up the balances in publicly displayed addies as an open audit thing

15:43:57 ThickAsThieves: tell kako to use the beer fund

15:44:09 ThickAsThieves: or bitbet's, more appropriately

15:44:15 ThickAsThieves: seems a worthy cause

15:44:18 mircea_popescu: course this probably understates bitbet controlled btc, seeing how if a large chunk is used to make a small payment the remainder is still bitbet's, but anyway

15:44:28 ThickAsThieves: could provide a constant link to dynamic audit

15:44:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well if it's house-released it's not the same thing

15:44:32 ThickAsThieves: pretty fancy really

15:44:45 mircea_popescu: i'd rather decentralize etc.

15:45:03 ThickAsThieves: blockchain is already decentralized, dont be so forumite

15:45:10 mircea_popescu: people are constantly asking "well how to acquire respek and a wot weight". this is *precisely* how

15:45:52 ThickAsThieves: the only centralized part is bitbet expenses and disclosure

15:46:09 mircea_popescu: lurk here, pick one of these that's a good fit for you and run with it. they're like... at LEAST weekly occurences.

15:46:09 ThickAsThieves: the rest could be blockchain-dynamic

15:46:35 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves expenses aren't really that centralised. i mean which lines ?

15:46:40 mircea_popescu: house bets made is public,

15:46:48 mircea_popescu: rectifications are public,

15:47:01 mircea_popescu: referrals i guess aren't public.

15:47:04 ThickAsThieves: expenses?

15:47:21 ThickAsThieves: i just mean why stop at proving you have the coins

15:47:27 ThickAsThieves: your whole book could be dynamic

15:47:31 mircea_popescu: sure.

15:47:46 benkay: derpstributed application bitbet

15:48:12 ThickAsThieves: provably solvent

15:48:15 ThickAsThieves: provably fair

15:48:20 ThickAsThieves: provably homosexual

15:48:21 ThickAsThieves: etc

15:48:23 mircea_popescu: provably fucking your wife

15:48:28 ThickAsThieves: too slow!

15:48:30 mircea_popescu: darn

15:49:20 mircea_popescu: this discussion reads a lolt better in the lolg.

15:51:39 benkay: bitbet is now a dac

15:51:42 benkay: april fewls

15:51:53 antephialtic: http://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/index.html

15:51:54 ozbot: Dual EC DRBG

15:52:21 antephialtic: nice writup of NSA fucking up all the codez

15:52:54 mircea_popescu: dac ?

15:53:08 antephialtic: "Adamantiadis' code recovers the state from 30 output bytes within 12.1 seconds on the reference CPU."

15:53:18 benkay: distributed autonomous corporation

15:53:34 benkay: it'd be soooo lulzy to get -pr to troll btctalk with that

15:53:36 benkay: SO LULZ

15:53:45 benkay: bitcoin might go up 100 dollars on the lulz

15:54:17 benkay: "popescu reverses stance on colored coins"

15:54:29 benkay: "ethereum ready for big boy time"

15:54:39 mircea_popescu: oh lol

15:54:50 benkay: be great

15:55:00 ThickAsThieves: just buy ethereum to kill it

15:55:17 ThickAsThieves: show how weak it is and teach its supporters

15:55:17 benkay: no its too good

15:55:22 mircea_popescu: they're killing it just fine on its own

15:55:24 mircea_popescu: why give them money.

15:56:41 ThickAsThieves: https://twitter.com/jonwaller/status/449909784419270656/photo/1

15:56:42 ozbot: Twitter / jonwaller: We had a great #Ethereum ...

15:56:45 ThickAsThieves: severe lack of beards

15:57:04 mircea_popescu: some beards grow inside the neck.

15:57:19 punkman1: beards = trust

15:57:32 ThickAsThieves: programming with their tablets

15:57:33 mircea_popescu: what the fuck would be going through a weirdo's mind that sported an OHIO tshirt

15:57:35 punkman1: MP's glorious beard being the most trustworthy

15:57:45 mircea_popescu: i mean, obscure band, i can see. you're hoping to hop the solist/celist

15:57:50 mircea_popescu: but obscure state ?!

15:57:53 ThickAsThieves: read the shirt though

15:58:16 mircea_popescu: ok it got even lamer.

15:59:04 ThickAsThieves: a-ha! https://twitter.com/FixmypcRo/status/447036724569702401/photo/1

15:59:20 ThickAsThieves: all their beards combined into one

15:59:46 mircea_popescu: sheeeit

15:59:57 mircea_popescu: that looks just like my pubic hair.

16:00:56 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Vlad_Roberto/status/447102599674621952

16:01:06 mircea_popescu: this guy's pretty epic. "i do ixcoin. i think it'll be huge"

16:01:14 mircea_popescu: should change his name to banya.

16:01:43 benkay: sublime text

16:01:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, meanwhile at Chateau d'Evil, http://31.media.tumblr.com/733c20c6aa6e43421e8082b4cd9ee446/tumblr_mj8quhsSxT1s7eb1eo1_500.jpg

16:02:00 chetty: hey I found ceoDanny

16:02:04 chetty: http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-Shot-2014-04-01-at-9.01.14-AM-620x403.png

16:02:35 mircea_popescu: long legs almost excuse a beard.

16:03:41 mircea_popescu: chetty neobee didn't have a lambo. afaik that's bitpay

16:04:22 chetty: well he has had time to get one

16:04:54 thestringpuller: bitpay wastes a lot of money

16:05:08 artifexd: How the hell can you code on a tablet? The lack of pixels alone...

16:05:38 mircea_popescu: artifexd i never understood it.

16:06:53 antephialtic: thestringpuller: how so?

16:07:25 benkay: artifexd: if you don't strive for efficiency in your process in the first place...

16:08:04 thestringpuller: antephialtic: They spend astronomically more money in comparison to MP's companies...

16:08:10 Mats_cd03: im being mindfucked by the logs

16:08:16 artifexd: I'm used to working on multiple 30" monitors so the thought of working on a 7" tablet scares me.

16:08:20 thestringpuller: so I'd imagine they are spending in excess

16:09:16 chetty: I dont even like coding on a laptop if I can help it

16:10:00 benkay: ugh fix the logs

16:10:08 benkay: actually nvm

16:10:10 Mats_cd03: seriously what is this 19:50:13 mircea_popescu: tumbler, an great bitbet but use how properly this so a much is in purpose, moreover isn't for to trivial how designed is on showing this anyway, it as any service exercise

16:10:13 benkay: i'm sure nothing happened

16:10:17 Mats_cd03: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2014#520188

16:10:20 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

16:10:45 benkay: chetty: some day this year i'll get an office and move back to multiple monitors

16:11:02 Mats_cd03: i spent a few mins reading and i was trying to figure out if im really fucking high or the logs are broken

16:11:06 benkay: but for now, cafe lifestyle

16:11:11 benkay: Mats_cd03: did you check the date?

16:11:52 benkay: i'm considering telling a PM that all of his company's backups failed and have been corrupted for the past month.

16:12:00 Mats_cd03: this is worse than ponies, youre ruining my coffee time

16:12:16 mike_c: Mats_cd03: you've been april fooled :) try this: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?stopitkako&date=20-02-2014#520188

16:12:19 benkay: happy april

16:12:31 benkay: stoppitkako well done

16:12:37 artifexd: lol @ stopitkako

16:12:58 Mats_cd03: thx ily mike_c

16:13:42 benkay: mike_c: i for one do not appreciate the fix

16:13:49 benkay: now i have to read the logs

16:14:26 mike_c: i know, right? no days off around here

16:16:25 benkay: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2014&bots=true#596065

16:16:28 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

16:16:45 benkay: i see you debugging -assets in production, mike_c

16:17:14 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?stopitkako&date=20-02-2014#520188

16:17:14 mike_c: i didn't figure out the algorithm.

16:17:38 mircea_popescu: darn too slow again

16:17:49 mircea_popescu: mike_c prolly just random sort ?

16:17:56 benkay: phprand

16:18:02 mircea_popescu: aynrand

16:18:20 benkay: rand-ish

16:18:21 kakobrekla: yeah the entropy on it is bad, no cardano sorry guise.

16:18:35 benkay: what kind of cabal is this anyways

16:19:51 Mats_cd03: what are we doing tonight brain?

16:20:36 mircea_popescu: fucking ourselves out ?

16:26:00 benkay: ;;later tell Duffer1 NASA was just a wholehearted theft of european talent. nothing endogenous to the USA.

16:26:35 benkay: s/wholehearted/wholesale

16:28:08 benkay: asciilifeform:just about every interesting technology attributed to a mega-organization was done on 'stolen time.' << yeah, as always, asciilifeform has it

16:28:38 mike_c: i feel like i've asked this before, but: bitbet revenue line 'fees from refunds'. how are fees that bitbet paid considered revenue?

16:28:50 benkay: 1%

16:28:55 mike_c: oh oh

16:28:57 mike_c: right

16:29:08 mike_c: i was thinking tx fees on sending out refunds

16:29:15 mircea_popescu: brb found an error in the rectification o.o

16:29:31 benkay: bitbet also mining farm

16:29:37 mircea_popescu: actually : this is a good matter for public consultation.

16:29:43 benkay: APE-WIL FEWLS

16:30:08 mircea_popescu: so : last month bitbet made 3.68215306 btc, which should have gone as follows : 1.104645918 should have gone to the public shareholders, 1.288753571 to kako and 1.288753571 to me.

16:30:17 mircea_popescu: this because we still hold 70% of the shares, not yet listed.

16:30:37 mircea_popescu: through my mistake 3.68215306 have gone to the public shareholders instead.

16:30:55 mircea_popescu: how would teh wise other ppl rectify this problem in the current report ?

16:32:52 mike_c: what can you do? mark it under expense and carry forward.

16:33:43 mircea_popescu: no because that degrades the dividends owed on the 70% of shares not listed

16:34:00 ThickAsThieves: the guys that made the error?

16:34:20 mike_c: overpay yourself and kako in the same amount, then carry forward the expense.

16:34:43 mike_c: screws future investors, but they can see that in the report and take it into consideration.

16:34:46 ThickAsThieves: the question lies in whether and where the culpability lies

16:35:04 ThickAsThieves: i think it is not the shareholders that should be owed

16:35:05 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitbet-march-2014-statement/

16:35:06 ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

16:35:08 mike_c: not really. the company accountant screwed up. can't penalize specific shareholders for that

16:35:09 mircea_popescu: i think this is a better solution

16:35:18 mircea_popescu: "make the mistake larger" seems the wron way to go

16:36:01 ThickAsThieves: so bitbet/you/accountant are eating the loss?

16:36:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no ? it's just a floating charge against public share dividents.

16:36:33 ThickAsThieves: i disagree with that

16:36:47 mircea_popescu: because why ?

16:36:48 ThickAsThieves: account should be settled at time of report

16:37:11 mircea_popescu: that redces to "every corp should dissolve"

16:37:34 ThickAsThieves: its meant to read that an error was made and that cant be undone by carrying it over

16:37:36 ThickAsThieves: as mentioned,

16:37:42 ThickAsThieves: it fucks up trading of shares

16:38:16 ThickAsThieves: i suppose a shareholder should read footnotes and know he'll come in owing some divs

16:38:19 ThickAsThieves: but...

16:38:24 mircea_popescu: but what ?

16:38:45 mike_c: but now it is more confusing. there is no line item for that charge.

16:38:53 mircea_popescu: mike_c myeah

16:39:10 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what happens if one month the revenue from closing bets is 1 btc but the house takes in 1k new bets, worth 100 btc

16:39:26 mircea_popescu: obviously that 99 btc will be carried on the book until it melts away

16:39:52 ThickAsThieves: bitbet accidentally lost some money

16:39:59 ThickAsThieves: that's how it should go

16:40:01 mircea_popescu: (we had something similar happen at least once iirc)

16:40:23 ThickAsThieves: not sure if it washes any different though

16:40:29 mike_c: i guess the issue is that this is a cash flow statement, and the charge belongs on the balance sheet.

16:41:17 mircea_popescu: mike_c myeah kinda smushing things together in there

16:41:20 ThickAsThieves: unless bitbet intends to charge an employee or contractor for the loss, the shareholders eat it regardless

16:42:00 ThickAsThieves: certainly dont pay out MORE to balance the loss

16:42:06 mircea_popescu: that no.

16:42:47 ThickAsThieves: if you had a full board, theyd probly seek reimbursement from the accountant

16:42:52 ThickAsThieves: if that person is an employee

16:42:58 ThickAsThieves: not sure what measures are appropriate

16:43:02 ThickAsThieves: firing in some cases

16:43:05 ThickAsThieves: but...

16:43:21 mircea_popescu: afaik the normal practice is simply clawback.

16:43:32 mircea_popescu: and if you derp you go to jail

16:43:39 mircea_popescu: like that recent guy with the 90k

16:45:24 ThickAsThieves: to be candid though, you have an an accounting problem that appears to be consistenly inconsistent

16:45:37 ThickAsThieves: a change of guard it likely in order

16:45:43 ThickAsThieves: is*

16:46:09 mircea_popescu: in that meta sense : i'm quite happy with it, because it both creates caselaw and casepeople.

16:46:14 ThickAsThieves: on the surface this is healthy

16:46:23 ThickAsThieves: cuz now all your people check every month

16:46:27 ThickAsThieves: and probly enjoy doing so

16:46:39 ThickAsThieves: but what if a major problem happens

16:46:51 ThickAsThieves: more caselaw... ?

16:46:56 mircea_popescu: pretty much. what else ?

16:47:04 ThickAsThieves: prevention?

16:47:13 mircea_popescu: i think this is the road to prevention.

16:47:19 ThickAsThieves: possibly

16:47:31 ThickAsThieves: but you bias

16:47:36 mircea_popescu: well yes i bias.

16:48:22 blackwhite: hello gents

16:48:35 mircea_popescu: heya

16:48:57 mircea_popescu: mike_c half tempted to move bitbet on a nz0 basis tbh.

16:49:48 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the problem is that people who are actually qualified to do this stuff do not wish to do it, because they were qualified by fiat and wish to die in fiat.

16:49:56 mike_c: yeah.. it is not really accurate to call it a nz0 given how many assets it has :)

16:49:57 mircea_popescu: willy nilly have to create and qualify bitcoin cpas.

16:50:17 ThickAsThieves: then maybe my suggestion to go full dynamic aint so bad

16:50:23 mike_c: er, zac

16:50:27 ThickAsThieves: kill multiple birds with one stone

16:50:32 ThickAsThieves: automate the whole thing

16:50:34 mircea_popescu: it's bad. technology has never nor will it ever replace people.

16:50:34 ThickAsThieves: no mistakes

16:50:44 mircea_popescu: if we don't have our own cpas, and our own fucking missiles, we'll have trouble.

16:50:52 blackwhite: technology has already replaced people

16:50:57 blackwhite: in many areas

16:50:58 ThickAsThieves: well your cpa tells your programmer what to make

16:50:59 danielpbarron: who is "we"

16:51:07 ThickAsThieves: once, excel didnt exist

16:51:24 mircea_popescu: doubt we're that far yet, but i can appreciate your point in principle.

16:51:27 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron bitcoin.

16:51:28 mike_c: maybe mpoe-pr wants to learn accounting

16:51:39 mircea_popescu: i just hope she doesn't want to learn breastfeeding.

16:51:51 mike_c: she can do both at the same time

16:52:22 mircea_popescu: didn't work out for smickles, that theory.

16:52:27 danielpbarron: what does that even mean?

16:52:45 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you're new here. why not read the logs for a while and ask q after ?

16:53:08 kakobrekla: perhaps wait a few more hrs with that advice.

16:53:18 mircea_popescu: a there is that

16:53:24 ThickAsThieves: hehe

16:53:24 mircea_popescu: jesus new guy trying to read the log.

16:53:33 kakobrekla: make the wiki work

16:54:06 ThickAsThieves: i made the categories and two links! what more do you want!

16:54:09 *: bounce was going to say that excel isn't really appropriate for much of anything, then thought of "appropriate technology"... and excel is indeed pretty much the opposite.

16:54:12 ThickAsThieves: nah i'll help more tho

16:54:16 mircea_popescu: yeah we need more wiki people. hey moiety, do you know what the manuls have been telling me ?

16:54:21 moiety: aww Scotland tried to April Fool's too, look http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10735711/Alex-Salmond-to-replace-the-Queen-on-new-Scottish-pound-coin.html

16:54:24 danielpbarron: i don't need to read the logs to understand you are collectivizing all bitcoin users as if they all have the same goals

16:54:25 moiety: hmm manuls?

16:54:42 ThickAsThieves: no

16:54:46 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah, but you do need to read the logs to understand other things.

16:54:49 ThickAsThieves: you need it to not say weird shit like that

16:54:55 mircea_popescu: moiety they said you should be working butt off on wiki.

16:55:13 danielpbarron: how about you have your missile and i'll have mine? no need to personify Bitcoin

16:55:20 ThickAsThieves: ...

16:55:28 mircea_popescu: who are you ?! and why are you determined to feed my ignore list ?

16:55:58 moiety: that's because they can't read mircea_popescu .. what does the wiki need

16:56:19 kakobrekla: moiety at this point, a lot of flash, i think.

16:56:28 mircea_popescu: moiety articles. think you're trying to tell stuff to your newb friend, so she can talk in -assets without being silly. what'd go in there ?

16:57:11 kakobrekla: yes in a flash form

16:57:25 mircea_popescu: stop sabotaging the slander omg

16:57:27 kakobrekla: im sorry, dont take me seriously.

16:57:32 kakobrekla: ctrl - z

16:57:32 mircea_popescu: toolate

16:57:33 kakobrekla: ctrl - z

16:57:34 kakobrekla: ctrl - z

16:57:41 kakobrekla: there

16:57:43 kakobrekla: all good.

16:57:52 moiety: lol

16:58:11 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: z ctrl - kakobrekla: ctrl z - kakobrekla: z - ctrl

16:58:15 mircea_popescu: fucken spazz.

16:58:23 kakobrekla: lel

16:59:29 mircea_popescu: so now that mpoe and bbet are all fucked up, allow me to ruin the monthly reports of nsa too.

16:59:46 Mats_cd03: wat

17:00:07 moiety: I'm not actually allowed to include manuls in this am i

17:00:20 mike_c: what's a wiki with no manuls?

17:01:36 benkay: mircea_popescu: list all shares on mpex. divs can only be paid to full float. remove a source of pebkac errors.

17:02:03 mircea_popescu: benkay then people can start pulling a danny.

17:02:14 benkay: pardon?

17:02:19 ThickAsThieves: and it's fud fodder

17:02:21 mike_c: benkay: owner-shares are not supposed to be tradeable

17:02:34 mike_c: they are contracted to maintain a % of ownership

17:02:39 moiety: <mircea_popescu> "[...] without being silly." << you did just ask me, but i will try.

17:02:40 benkay: the problem is this manual "half the shares are not on the exchange" thing.

17:02:48 benkay: or .7 or w/e.

17:03:11 ThickAsThieves: i dont share that concern

17:03:17 mircea_popescu: benkay nothing to stop the issuer from selling the treasury shares.

17:03:17 ThickAsThieves: i think they should not be on the exchange

17:03:27 benkay: well this is a design of exchange thing

17:03:38 benkay: as designed, sure, not really a good idea to set people up to do a runner.

17:04:00 ThickAsThieves: make issuer-grade accounts?

17:04:01 benkay: if you have 2 classes of shares, maybe track both classes of shares with the share tracking thing.

17:04:10 ThickAsThieves: that cannot trade

17:04:14 mircea_popescu: moiety cool. if you fuck it up all these other experts can fix it. but it seems unless someone starts nobody does sortt of thing

17:04:39 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves trade engine wants to kill your guitar.

17:04:57 ThickAsThieves: kako how do i get wiki access

17:05:00 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

17:05:59 ThickAsThieves: that guitar comment went over my head mp

17:06:35 ThickAsThieves: i still think having the shares "listed" isnt a good path

17:06:48 ThickAsThieves: but i can see how it's possible to facilitate such and some benefits it could bring

17:07:57 mircea_popescu: google zappa my guitar wants to kill your momma

17:08:00 mircea_popescu: ;;google zappa my guitar wants to kill your momma

17:08:45 kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves pm

17:09:22 moiety: This is where he tells you to flash your webcam... or was that just me?

17:09:29 Mats_cd03: http://www.reddit.com/user/JuicyGrabs somebody that loves neobee and hates mpex... weird

17:09:30 ozbot: overview for JuicyGrabs

17:09:52 ThickAsThieves: weird?

17:09:57 ThickAsThieves: seems common

17:10:51 mircea_popescu: totally muy muy very weird and strange

17:13:31 Mats_cd03: mp has a powerful effect on people

17:14:40 VanCleef: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.0

17:14:41 ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges

17:14:43 ThickAsThieves: it's is charge in life it seems

17:14:45 ThickAsThieves: his*

17:15:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2014/snsa-march-2014-statement/

17:16:31 mircea_popescu: wait, he found an article from two weeks ago ?

17:16:49 VanCleef: heh

17:16:53 mike_c: first: bug in the snsa report :D "demo-ed before a rapturous applause"

17:17:16 ThickAsThieves: "Bear in mind that we’re almost a full year away and things may well change. A definitive schedule will be published late March 2014."

17:17:29 ThickAsThieves: anything to definitively add?

17:17:31 mircea_popescu: mike_c how do you say past of "to demo" ?

17:17:40 ThickAsThieves: demonstrated

17:17:44 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves notrly.

17:17:45 mike_c: i mean, either demo-ed before a rapturous audience

17:17:50 mircea_popescu: o o

17:18:07 mircea_popescu: there, implemented both fixes.

17:18:07 mike_c: or demo-ed to the sound of thunderous applause

17:18:32 mircea_popescu: pls don't crimp my esl style.

17:18:41 bounce: no no no it was clearly rapturous applause before a thunderous crowd

17:19:16 mircea_popescu: rancorous thunderclapping and also nubbins snowpocalypsae

17:19:33 ThickAsThieves: anyone know a good article explaining WHY the WoT is good, something to convince a noob

17:19:52 bounce: and what's that old fashioned thing with dashes? these days you are supposed to sprinkle apostrophes across your prose just in case you missed a spot, but no dashes

17:20:22 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves maybe a re-write of the girl

17:20:26 mircea_popescu: s wot thing on bitcointalk ?

17:20:30 mircea_popescu: that'd make a decent wiki page anyway

17:21:02 ThickAsThieves: that's my thought, trying to make sure some context is injected into the wiki

17:21:19 ThickAsThieves: a buncha a links is only arguably better than 'go read the log'

17:21:28 mircea_popescu: verily. hence "re-write"

17:21:44 mircea_popescu: btctalk post had some good ideas/sturcture but not really a full and complete "why wot" thing

17:21:48 mircea_popescu: more like a subsection

17:21:58 ThickAsThieves: link handy?

17:22:54 ThickAsThieves: google giving weird returns for the forum

17:22:55 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110861.10;wap2

17:22:56 ozbot: Reputation system?

17:23:10 mircea_popescu: sec

17:24:55 mircea_popescu: why do womenz look so great in ball gags

17:25:00 ThickAsThieves: kakobrekla, how to edit categories and add pages?

17:28:48 VanCleef: this bloomberg interview is interesting

17:28:54 VanCleef: i mean article

17:29:06 VanCleef: mp is famous

17:29:38 mircea_popescu: net notorious mpg

17:29:42 mircea_popescu: teh*

17:30:17 kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves

17:30:18 kakobrekla: https://www.dokuwiki.org/manual

17:30:19 ozbot: manual [DokuWiki]

17:30:22 kakobrekla: see namespaces

17:30:29 VanCleef: what do you think about it all mp?

17:30:36 VanCleef: nothing to worry about for u?

17:30:49 mircea_popescu: not particularly.

17:31:03 VanCleef: herp has got a bit of a hardon for u

17:31:27 mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised nobody's come out with the "herp is really mp" line.

17:31:43 mircea_popescu: i recall j-something was suspected of it

17:32:34 VanCleef: i think this will affect havelock more so

17:32:48 VanCleef: and as i said earlier will probably close down sometime this year

17:32:53 kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves also there is a playground page to play around with

17:33:13 kakobrekla: if there is something specific you want to do i can tell you what you need to do

17:33:51 kakobrekla: if you want to create a new page on top of the dir, just visit the url you wanna create

17:33:53 kakobrekla: and create the page

17:34:03 kakobrekla: it will show in the menu automatically

17:34:35 ThickAsThieves: sweet

17:34:45 kakobrekla: if you want a subpage, you can use nest it

17:34:47 kakobrekla: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/wiki/playground/test

17:34:48 ozbot: wiki:playground:test [bitcoin assets wiki]

17:34:48 kakobrekla: like dat

17:35:03 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitbet-march-2014-statement/#comment-98819

17:35:16 kakobrekla: but for now keep it on one level if you can ThickAsThieves

17:35:20 ThickAsThieves: ok

17:35:43 ThickAsThieves: mostly wanted to edit categories and create them

17:35:59 ThickAsThieves: just need to sort how to edit them now

17:36:25 kakobrekla: edit what, a category?

17:36:31 bounce: so I tried a writeup wrt something on -otc: http://pastebin.ca/2690120 apart from zomfg too long, comments?

17:36:39 kakobrekla: just make a new one delete old

17:36:46 VanCleef: did mpoepr really get banned from bitcointalk?

17:36:52 VanCleef: seems a bit harsh

17:37:07 bounce: ze mod said so, must be true then

17:37:10 VanCleef: sorry if this is old news or asking too many questions

17:38:43 mircea_popescu: VanCleef was yesterday's lulz

17:39:15 mircea_popescu: bounce it's not too bad as a case study

17:40:28 VanCleef: this doesn't seem like something TAT would post

17:40:30 VanCleef: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551603.msg6010682#msg6010682

17:40:32 ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.

17:41:47 ThickAsThieves: well i did post it

17:42:06 VanCleef: oh okey

17:42:16 VanCleef: thanks for confirming

17:42:21 ThickAsThieves: ok i've added short descriptions to all the wiki links so far, surely they'll need editing and maybe some references

17:42:25 VanCleef: thought you got hacked or something :/

17:42:38 ThickAsThieves: why?

17:42:43 bounce: pr00f of h4x, I say. just like mpoe-pr clearly got h4xx0red. the mod was right!

17:42:45 ThickAsThieves: like what is so hard to believe

17:42:48 VanCleef: lol just didn't seem like it was you

17:42:51 ThickAsThieves: that i hate bullshit?

17:42:55 ThickAsThieves: and will swear over it?

17:48:06 mike_c: can he say broken windows a few more times? he doesn't sound dumb enough yet.

17:49:13 mircea_popescu: windows is pretty broken...

17:49:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves https://bitcointa.lk/threads/reputation-system.67046/#post-1153370

17:49:58 mircea_popescu: the wot post

17:55:23 benkay: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7508562

17:55:46 ThickAsThieves: k i added the link as-is for now with suggestion for rewrite

17:55:58 mircea_popescu: "Coinbase isn't some random website made in a basement. It's a well funded, YC backed, known-founder company that complies with relevant banking law. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that they hold a partial reserve or have any ill intention whatsoever."

17:56:02 mircea_popescu: again, this bullshit ?

17:57:18 benkay: let's give the shitshow some credit, shall we?

17:57:21 benkay: "The steal-all-your-money rate of bitcoin businesses is running right around 100%, and you're going to lecture people that "they can only ever lose a small portion of all stored user funds"? Really?"

17:57:25 mircea_popescu: no.

17:57:38 mircea_popescu: "The last "isn't some random website made in a basement" case was NeoBee. There were bunch of others before that, exactly similar.

17:57:38 mircea_popescu: Coinbase IS EXACTLY a random website made in a basement. So is AirBnB. So is everying else YC backed. Get over yourselves, lay down the pipe, you're a laughingstock for a reason.

17:57:38 mircea_popescu: This is the reason."

17:57:53 mircea_popescu: if anyone feels like passing it along.

18:00:28 ThickAsThieves: lol http://i.imgur.com/uJY9QN3.jpg

18:00:54 mircea_popescu: yc imagines itself respectable nao, god help us.

18:00:56 ThickAsThieves: isnt that my quote?

18:01:14 mircea_popescu: "in depth coverage" ?

18:01:23 ThickAsThieves: bitpay i want my pound of flesh!

18:01:44 mircea_popescu: a little girl stole your quote

18:02:01 mike_c: i like coinbase. i don't have to hold any $$ with them in order to buy btc.

18:02:03 ThickAsThieves: she doesnt even look chinese

18:02:24 mircea_popescu: mike_c but you do have to hold your id with them

18:02:50 mike_c: yes, so my buys are recorded. what am i going to do? use localbitcoin and buy all my coin on the street corner?

18:02:56 mircea_popescu: not the point.

18:03:03 mircea_popescu: what if i go out and steal your server now ?

18:03:13 mircea_popescu: i got your actual passport, i got your address, your cc number, anything.

18:03:18 mircea_popescu: i could change your tax accountant

18:03:22 mircea_popescu: i could take out a new credit card.

18:03:32 mike_c: how is this different from any other online service?

18:03:37 mircea_popescu: i could withdraw your 401k early and guess what ? even if you do gert it back, the tax is still due.

18:03:58 mircea_popescu: what is this, how to make bitcoin paypal ?

18:04:46 mike_c: it's not making bitcoin paypal. once i buy my bitcoin, coinbase is no longer involved.

18:04:52 mircea_popescu: i don't think the average us person realises exactly how fucked they are. and the "well everyone else is just as fucked" thinkin doesn't really work.

18:04:59 mircea_popescu: yes, but you're permanently exposed.

18:05:10 mike_c: my bitcoinz are not though.

18:05:16 mircea_popescu: your bitcoins are not, no.

18:05:18 benkay: dude mike_c buying over irc is way more fun

18:05:25 mircea_popescu: if you have the sense to withdraw it

18:05:25 mike_c: steal my 401k, what the fuck do i care? it's worthless anyway.

18:05:28 mircea_popescu: which most people do not.

18:05:45 mircea_popescu: well i see what you mean, but! i imagine so do you.

18:06:34 mike_c: there is a practicality here. i can actually buy bitcoin with coinbase (with no $$ balance). there are extremely limited other ways for me to do that.

18:06:47 mircea_popescu: hey, your own life is yours to lead.

18:06:56 mike_c: i suppose. i wish -otc were better, but it's not.

18:06:56 mircea_popescu: coinbase is still a pos.

18:06:59 mike_c: hehe

18:07:25 mircea_popescu: there's you know, ringworm infested puddles all over africa

18:07:40 mircea_popescu: which are water for the locals, on the basis of the practicality that w/o water your le is a day.

18:08:02 mike_c: ok. yes, i see that point.

18:08:29 mike_c: i guess it's just that the other water sources are filled with sewage, so the ringworm doesn't look so bad.

18:08:32 mircea_popescu: not ringworm, that's fungal

18:08:39 mircea_popescu: wtf is that evil worm thing called

18:09:13 mircea_popescu: ;;google dracunculiasis

18:09:15 mircea_popescu: that thing

18:09:34 benkay: otc is not really a pain in the ass.

18:09:43 benkay: know how much you want to buy, have it in a moneypak.

18:09:48 mircea_popescu: benkay i suppose it depends a lot on where you live etc

18:09:52 benkay: it is *moderately* inconvenient.

18:10:41 benkay: why does it depend on where you live? even in the states one can buy moneypak with cash.

18:11:01 mircea_popescu: how the fuck do i know

18:11:22 benkay: people are insufficiently wary about touching both the fiat rail and the crypto rail at the same time.

18:11:22 mike_c: http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?type=SELL&nick=&thing=BTC&otherthing=&eitherthing=¬es= << who you going to buy from on this list besides sturles?

18:11:23 ozbot: #bitcoin-otc order book

18:11:25 mircea_popescu: maybe he lives five miles from any moneypak thing and it's run by zombies

18:11:30 bounce: s/even/only/ IIRC

18:11:42 Apocalyptic: ^

18:11:59 bounce: need more peeps put their orders in there

18:13:19 benkay: it goes like this mike_c

18:13:27 benkay: "wtb btc with moneypak 2kusd"

18:14:36 bounce: then ignore all the scammers

18:14:38 mike_c: honey for the scammors. i'll try it again sometime.

18:15:00 benkay: yeah well then do your dilligence on trust ratings.

18:15:24 mircea_popescu: alternatively, maybe start with peanuts and work people up.

18:15:32 mircea_popescu: do 10 trades on 10 dolla moneypacks,

18:15:43 mircea_popescu: select the 8 that didn't run, do 50 dolla

18:15:47 mircea_popescu: select the 7 that etc do 100

18:16:16 mircea_popescu: eventually people's histories with you are more valuable to them than any one trade so even the scammers won't scam you.

18:17:37 Apocalyptic: typical otc scammer won't go that far anyway

18:17:48 Apocalyptic: last night dude took 2 hours to scam $10

18:18:06 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:19:32 kakobrekla: http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=318189459efde177c0f0166dd&id=3899f9bfb5&e=e6e4334e18

18:19:32 ozbot: BTC.sx Receives Largest Seedcoin Fund Investment: Virtual Incubator Finances the First Bitcoin-Only

18:20:28 mircea_popescu: again largest and first ?

18:20:31 mircea_popescu: this'll never end will it.

18:20:50 mircea_popescu: largest search engine, first ever to use a search box! derpoogle.co!

18:20:56 kakobrekla: > In fact, this opportunity gives Seedcoin a substantial position in the most reputable, popular and advanced derivative trading platform for Bitcoin.

18:21:12 mircea_popescu: great.

18:21:14 kakobrekla: > We congratulate BTC.sx on their continued success and the global respect they have earned among Bitcoin traders,” says Eddy Travia, Cofounder and Chief Startup Officer of Seedcoin.

18:21:42 moiety: mircea_popescu: i just caught up properly. is mpoe-pr ok? I hope so. it's pretty rough going dealing with shit for a long time and it then it ending unfairly.

18:21:51 mircea_popescu: they should also invest in that casino thing , whatever it was called.

18:22:05 Namworld: I guess in some places, $5 per hour is excellent pay.

18:22:14 mircea_popescu: moiety what's so unfair about it lol. she told teh guy where to stuff it, how many employees get to do that ?

18:22:15 kakobrekla: >With offices in New York City, London and Singapore, BTC.sx has an innovative, intuitive and proprietary platform that allows users to easily trade Bitcoin derivatives.

18:22:19 kakobrekla: brick and mortar, dude.

18:22:21 moiety: ThickAsThieves: if you really want banned, simply go in anything and personally insult people offtopic. its the only thing they ban for, in their words.

18:22:23 Namworld: And the guy knows he's not going to be sued for it.

18:22:57 Namworld: So, well... yeah, I'm not surprised. Those kind of people will be around as long as it works.

18:23:00 moiety: its unfair because of the way that forum is conducted

18:24:03 moiety: imo

18:24:19 bounce: asleep at the wheel then trying to pull a sgt. hardass, wasn't too impressive from what little I saw of it.

18:25:16 mircea_popescu: Namworld good point re the relative safety. i guess many of them aren't unaware of it.

18:26:59 Namworld: It's completly not worth it to sue them, plus people won't do it just for the principle because the person is probably poor and in bad need of money. So why send a message by suing for something so small? (On top of it being close to impossible, re other jurisdiction combined with low amount)

18:27:19 Namworld: I'm sure it's a job for many on the forums/otc.

18:27:43 mircea_popescu: how to make a living as a thirld world flea.

18:28:02 Namworld: Scamming 10 bucks here, 50 there, making new accounts and a few posts and small trades.

18:28:51 Namworld: Some might not be poor. Like a kid, just for the thrill. Scam a little amount.

18:28:54 Namworld: Etc.

18:29:07 mircea_popescu: prolly can clear 10 dollars a day on average, for 8 hour's work, which is just about the worldwide net average salary.

18:32:26 ThickAsThieves: <moiety> ThickAsThieves: if you really want banned, simply go in anything and personally insult people offtopic. /// seems a step too far for me, i'll just not visit anymore unless to view a reference from this chan, or the like

18:33:51 Namworld: At the same time, why would they ban scammers? It's not like it's their job to investigate and provide proof of scams and then ban them. That's not how forums work. Plus the whole thing about banning without proof at first.

18:33:59 moiety: it's actually really easy lpace to forget about

18:34:06 moiety: place* ThickAsThieves

18:34:31 mod6: lol @ logs kako

18:34:44 mircea_popescu: question : who was lilo ?

18:34:44 Namworld: I can see why they'd say they only ban people derailing conversations/insulting without proofs. And just put a little scammer tag only once it's proven it's a scam.

18:34:59 mircea_popescu: answer : a mobster and acting boss of the bonanno crime family.

18:35:00 mod6: lilo` was a freenode admin back in the day.

18:35:16 mircea_popescu: ;;google carmine galante

18:35:17 mod6: oh nm. heh

18:35:46 mod6: (well, when it was openprojects.net or whatever.)

18:36:02 Namworld: They provide a medium to communicate, they don't protect people from themselves/scammers.

18:36:18 mircea_popescu: Namworld yeah except if you ban people that tell you to get fucked after you deleted a half dozen posts they made ostensibly because "you have to minimise the visibility of moderation" but really because you just as well didn't want their content visible

18:36:21 mod6: was reading through the logs, was like: O_o are they all on LSD today?

18:36:26 mircea_popescu: things start looking a little different suddenly.

18:36:29 ThickAsThieves: Namworld i think your view is too black & white on the matter

18:36:35 mircea_popescu: mod6 we are, but it's unrelated.

18:36:40 mod6: haha

18:36:48 ThickAsThieves: it's not their duty to seek and prove scamming

18:36:59 ThickAsThieves: it is in their financial interest to be ethical though

18:37:05 ThickAsThieves: possibly their legal one too

18:37:22 Namworld: Perhaps, I didn't read about that part of deleting posts complaining about moderators.

18:37:34 ThickAsThieves: would YOU have allowed Garr to keep up his antics?

18:37:45 mircea_popescu: generally speaking this is true. it gets real hard to argue no mens rea after you;ve been shown to have taken positive steps.

18:37:58 Namworld: That's the other issue with forums. If some admins/mods are bad and good at it, you won't see it.

18:38:04 kakobrekla: interestingly there seems to be two groups of people. first think asseters took ze drugs, the second group thinks they them selfs are on something. perhaps this tells a thing.

18:38:15 Namworld: Garr? is he still there under his own account?

18:38:17 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol indeed.

18:38:43 nubbins`: vexual hangs in the balance

18:38:45 nubbins`: waiting

18:38:58 mircea_popescu: Namworld in the case of teh btctalk you do see it, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ipvo-multiple-exchanges-neo-bee-lmb-holdings.167762/page-226

18:39:08 ThickAsThieves: yes Nam he is

18:39:23 ThickAsThieves: he has solicited investment after being outted

18:39:27 twizt: mircea_popescu: did they extradite you yet lol

18:39:34 mircea_popescu: totally.

18:39:42 twizt: funny ass thread

18:39:53 ThickAsThieves: mods wanna mod, but dont start with their own rep system for targets?

18:39:53 mircea_popescu: i'm extraditing myself over to the bar in a minute.

18:40:02 ThickAsThieves: the whole thing is obviously hopeless

18:40:06 mircea_popescu: gotta extrudate some shots

18:40:13 twizt: lol

18:40:36 Namworld: I'd probably have left him there, yes. Let people rate each other/sort scammers out/investigate offers. It's trivial to make new accounts anyway. Scammers might as well keep their account with psts but also tainted reputation.

18:40:38 mircea_popescu: mebbe specially rendition some chicks outta their clothes while at it.

18:40:39 twizt: lawyering up atleast?

18:40:49 Namworld: Not like banning them would prevent them from coming back under a new identity.

18:41:08 mircea_popescu: Namworld not giving scammers the ability to make "Self moderated" threads would be one thing.

18:41:22 mircea_popescu: tbh i think it's where mpoe-pr's outlook turned.

18:41:38 mircea_popescu: from "derps derping bitcoin" to "these people are criminals in disguise"

18:41:58 mircea_popescu: at least going by the digests.

18:42:13 Namworld: That should indeed be implemented. So scammers can't leverage an account with lots of post to make a clean thread. Yet again, if you don't look up the guy's history even if the thread is clean...

18:42:50 mircea_popescu: well so then talk about broken windows

18:42:57 mircea_popescu: first, allow any random scammer to moderate hteir own thread

18:43:16 mircea_popescu: after people get used to this, maged can start deleting posts that inconvenience his clients.

18:43:25 mircea_popescu: there you have it. well broked.

18:43:40 ThickAsThieves: the problem is this conversation puts us down to their level, and that pissed me off too

18:43:51 ThickAsThieves: we're here all trying to sort the finer points of why its fucked

18:43:55 ThickAsThieves: it's just fucked

18:44:01 mircea_popescu: well he started it!

18:44:06 ThickAsThieves: hehe

18:44:16 Namworld: They already gave a rating system for people to leave feedbacks/make investigation of scam accusation easy. Rating page will list all the wrongs people are accused of.

18:44:24 ThickAsThieves: it needs owners that care about their thing

18:44:27 ThickAsThieves: they do not care

18:44:34 ThickAsThieves: that's that

18:44:52 mircea_popescu: at best, that.

18:45:23 kakobrekla: you can still rate even if you are banned so i use that to leave messages to people

18:45:32 ThickAsThieves: lol

18:45:34 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:45:41 Apocalyptic: you're still banned kako ?

18:45:44 ThickAsThieves: poor kako

18:46:10 kakobrekla: yes thermos did not respond to my email

18:46:44 ThickAsThieves: didnt thermos entrust John K with forum coins?

18:46:57 ThickAsThieves: cuz he couldnt hold them himself

18:46:59 Namworld: Honestly, I'd probably just ban people insulting others/derailing threads regardless of how likely they are right or the accused is a scammer.

18:47:02 ThickAsThieves: so heavy, the coins

18:47:28 mircea_popescu: "Venezuela Orders Landlords to List Homes for Sale"

18:47:33 mircea_popescu: so much lol coming out of that thing

18:47:34 Namworld: Insult = ban, explanation as to why someone shouldn't be trusted/their offer is bad, okay as long as polite.

18:47:52 ThickAsThieves: Namworld, the forumites are perpetually insulted

18:47:56 mod6: I wanted MPOE-PR to kill that site with fire.

18:48:09 ThickAsThieves: it's a state of being for them

18:48:09 mircea_popescu: "california housing market too expensive for underprivileged groups ? PEOPLE MUST NAO LIST HOUSES FOR SALE PAYMENT IN COWRIES"

18:48:38 mircea_popescu: Namworld that's what you think for lack of experience. what's "an insult" ?

18:48:54 Namworld: Insult as randomly calling people words and swearing at them, not people "feeling" insulted.

18:48:55 mircea_popescu: your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries.

18:48:57 mircea_popescu: what not ?

18:49:25 ThickAsThieves: yeah but you cant train forumites on what to complain about

18:49:31 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy4zULKFDU here, with audio.

18:49:31 ozbot: Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries - YouTube

18:49:32 ThickAsThieves: they have only their feelings

18:49:44 novusordo: "I am insulted that this person is calling out my scam"

18:49:59 ThickAsThieves: your mods would quit

18:50:08 ThickAsThieves: maybe thats why their mods suck

18:50:13 nubbins`: http://thecoinfront.com/leah-mcgrath-goodman-i-am-satoshi-nakamoto/

18:50:13 ThickAsThieves: need better pay

18:50:14 ozbot: Leah McGrath Goodman: "I Am Satoshi Nakamoto" | The CoinFront | Bitcoin News

18:50:36 mircea_popescu: o ywah, let's mess with that stupid cunt some more.

18:51:03 Namworld: Calling out a scam is not an insult. It's at best accurate, at worst an erroneous assumptions.

18:51:33 ThickAsThieves: so do you allow false accusations then?

18:51:50 ThickAsThieves: suddenly youre in the business you said you shouldnt be in

18:52:00 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/451069414604288000

18:52:01 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @truth_eater Hey toots, how's ...

18:52:11 mircea_popescu: pls to keep reminding me nao and again.

18:52:13 mircea_popescu: kthx.

18:52:19 Namworld: What business?

18:53:19 ThickAsThieves: <Namworld> At the same time, why would they ban scammers? It's not like it's their job to investigate and provide proof of scams and then ban them. That's not how forums work.

18:53:42 ThickAsThieves: the line blurs at people making scam accusations

18:54:02 ThickAsThieves: it's not quite an insult, but quite insulting

18:54:18 Diablo-D3: http://app.messages.seagate.com/e/es?s=261&e=304820&elq=35ad4a43ddd141e6a568d623ce442fce

18:54:19 ozbot: YUM Introducing Seagate's New Drive Portfolio.

18:54:22 ThickAsThieves: it's not provable, but also not true discourse if false

18:54:33 mircea_popescu: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/04/01/alleged-silk-road-creators-lawyer-denies-bitcoin-is-monetary-instrument-moves-to-drop-all-charges/

18:54:33 ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Creator's Lawyer Denies Bitcoin Is 'Monetary Instrument,' Moves To Drop All Charge

18:54:35 mircea_popescu: they caught on lmao.

18:54:45 Namworld: And I wouldn't ban scam accusations, weither true or false, like I wouldn't ban someone I thought is probably a scammer, weither true or false?

18:54:57 mircea_popescu: "Your honor, we finally got around to reading 2012 fraudsters. We humbly submit this is a complete gamechanger."

18:56:13 Namworld: There's a difference between "This guy is a scammer LINK" "This is a scam because X, Y, Z or because I think so" and "You sound like a scammer, get the fuck out you dimwit scum"

18:56:50 ThickAsThieves: is there?

18:56:50 mircea_popescu: really ?

18:57:07 mircea_popescu: is there a difference between "i perceive a difference" and "there is a difference" ?

18:57:30 pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.msg6021150#msg6021150 lol

18:57:32 ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges

18:57:53 ThickAsThieves: SELL!

18:57:55 novusordo: uh oh

18:57:55 benkay: jig up?

18:58:01 Namworld: No. But as admin I get to determine what is and what isn't acceptable. Even if the nuance is subtle.

18:58:03 mircea_popescu: wasn't this befoar ?

18:58:03 novusordo: let me post that to reddit without reading it

18:58:15 Namworld: I'm not there to protect people's feeling like I'm not there to protect people from scammers. Just preventing straight up inflamatorry posts without substance.

18:58:17 ThickAsThieves: wow theyre really gonna try and harass you now...

18:58:31 ThickAsThieves: this should last, what, a week at most?

18:58:33 mircea_popescu: Namworld yes well, some people make MPs thing, some other people make Bitcoin thing.

18:58:37 mircea_popescu: do you see a difference there ?

18:58:47 mircea_popescu: if it was JoeDorksForum your position would stand a lot better,

18:59:00 mircea_popescu: especially if that JoeDork was someone with a reputation of any kind.

18:59:08 mircea_popescu: rather than a 20something nobody with nary a clue.

18:59:35 Namworld: There's a reason why I'm not a forum admin tho, hard decisions to make, everyone always butthurt all the time, more bland content and same old being repated you can't read and filter everything.

19:00:07 mircea_popescu: so this has been an exercise in "let's discuss how the salmon would fly if it had no wings" ?

19:00:07 Namworld: It isn't a JoeDork'sForum?

19:00:20 mircea_popescu: ;;google joedorktalk.org

19:00:23 mircea_popescu: apparently not.

19:00:31 kakobrekla: the problem is just one

19:00:37 kakobrekla: they do not moderate the content but the form

19:00:42 kakobrekla: if it were the other way around

19:00:47 kakobrekla: ....

19:01:01 pankkake: bitcointa.lk does not detect the extension :(

19:01:02 Namworld: I wasn't aware it was somehow official. Is the Bitcoin foundation official too?

19:01:03 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla deeper than that : they moderate the content to favour scammers, under a pretense of moderating the form.

19:01:07 mircea_popescu: the gmaxwell sin.

19:01:21 mircea_popescu: Namworld it claims to be. peoples implicit claims are held against them.

19:01:57 Namworld: As such, my point is as valid as if the forum was called theymosandcotalk.org

19:02:23 Namworld: It claims to be a Bitcoin forum like the foundation says Bitcoin Foundation. That people perceive them as official or not, I don't care.

19:03:40 mircea_popescu: well maybe you should run a catholic choir nambla local group then ?

19:04:17 Namworld: A little mention "not official, Bitcoin is decentralized" under the names would be nice, but what if they don't? I ain't going to harass them all day long, now, should I?

19:04:38 Namworld: Why would I run a catholic choir?

19:04:53 mircea_popescu: i have no idea. why would these derps run a bitcoin forum ?

19:04:54 pankkake: I forgot there is https://www.bitcoinforum.com/ too - jurov uses it

19:05:17 Namworld: Because they decided to.

19:06:24 Namworld: If people think they're official, it's because they don't understand Bitcoin, not because they run a Bitcoin forum.

19:06:25 mircea_popescu: "n 1994 Crichton became the only creative artist ever to have works simultaneously charting at No. 1 in television, film, and book sales"

19:06:35 mircea_popescu: jesus that shit's broken

19:06:55 Duffer1: to be fair jurassic park was a good book

19:06:56 nubbins`: that's some bo jackson shit

19:07:05 nubbins`: BO KNOWS

19:07:47 Namworld: Same as if someone thought someone running gunstalk, goldtalk, sportstalk or whatever kind of forum was the official worldwide representative of guns, gold or sports respectively.

19:08:22 Namworld: If someone thing it's official, it's because they have no idea of the substance of the topic, not because the forum owners didn't put enough disclaimers.

19:08:25 Namworld: think*

19:08:39 mircea_popescu: dude get out. if you're running sportstalk.org and ban all discussions of all white players you're going to be drawn and quartered.

19:08:52 mircea_popescu: "o, i'm not racist, it's just how i run my forum which is mine"

19:09:31 Namworld: We're not talking about wether the mods did something wrong or not right now...

19:09:36 tg2: so how many shares of mpex exist?

19:09:45 mircea_popescu: 1bn

19:09:47 nubbins`: Namworld: if sportstalk.org predated widespread use of sports, it probably would be quite the hub of activity.

19:09:49 Namworld: Just about them claiming to be somewhat official.

19:10:10 nubbins`: that's distinct from being official, tho

19:10:40 tg2: so satoshidice was listed on mpex before?

19:10:46 Duffer1: ya

19:10:54 tg2: so how did it get sold to private party then

19:10:59 Namworld: Yes, all I'm saying is, if they're biased, okay. But why blame them for people confusing them for being official?

19:11:19 mike_c: it got sold, shareholders on mpex got paid..

19:11:30 Namworld: Did they ever claim to be official? I recall seeing claims of being the largest discussion forum about Bitcoin and that's it.

19:11:31 Duffer1: tg2 probably a fraudsters article on it

19:11:40 twizt: lol

19:12:08 nubbins`: Namworld not afaik.

19:12:19 tg2: wouldn't all the shareholders have to agree to sell it?

19:12:27 mike_c: most shares on mpex are non-voting.

19:12:34 tg2: yes, but if you owned a share

19:12:37 tg2: and you didn't want to sell it

19:12:40 nubbins`: tough darts

19:12:44 mike_c: and you have a non-voting share..

19:12:45 mircea_popescu: tg2 http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-list-of-discontinued-assets-on-mpex/

19:12:54 tg2: just curious about the process

19:13:11 mike_c: same as if google sold itself and you owned shares. nobody cares what you want.

19:13:20 mircea_popescu: there's no process. mpex shares hold no voting rights. nobody asks your opinion on how the comp is run.

19:13:32 mike_c: geez, i am starting to sound like you.

19:13:41 Mats_cd03: you get paid and you go on your merry way

19:14:03 tg2: > The MPEx holders nevertheless received 0.0035 per share,

19:14:03 tg2: i see

19:14:54 Namworld: and that's the point I was talking about. I don't care about people believing them to be official because of that. It's not like it's their problem or anyone's to go put disclaimers on everything so people don't have to think and just follow directions.

19:15:23 tg2: how difficult is it to get listed on mpex?

19:15:38 mircea_popescu: that depends. most derpcorps find it impossible.

19:15:51 tg2: yet pptapr and giga no issues?

19:15:51 Namworld: Not too hard I suppose, but yeah, what Mircea said.

19:15:53 mircea_popescu: otherwise kakobrekla asciilifeform etc could comment on it

19:16:16 Namworld: It's not like the requirements are too much or too hard to meet.

19:16:48 Namworld: It's that most scams fail to even come close to meet those requirements.

19:16:48 tg2: so if the dice buyout was kosher, ie: all the buyers got their fair value for their shares, why is SEC sniffing around for that corp in particular?

19:17:18 Namworld: Because some people wanted to keep shares/complained?

19:17:34 benkay: MPEx is the big target.

19:17:44 Namworld: I suppose especially those who bought from the slices of shares over IPO prices.

19:18:10 tg2: things like that happen though in regular companies that are listed, private party has an interest, buys all the shares above market, non-voting can't do much about it

19:18:44 Namworld: Because sell price way under IPO price, yet all MPEx shareholders got like 3x the price per share such they they'd get over the initial IPO price at the expense of private shareholders.

19:19:09 Namworld: Yet this excellent deal for MPEx holders didn't please people who bought way over IPO price.

19:19:15 mircea_popescu: tg2 we never got to know what they actually wanted because they could never figure how to express themselves.

19:19:30 mircea_popescu: the simile would be a down syndrome kid walking into a shop going GLEEEERHRHRHR!!

19:19:37 Namworld: Afaik, I think it was not Erik that sold shares over IPO, but the offer was other shareholders that wanted to sell at those high prices?

19:19:43 mircea_popescu: shop owner goes hey! if you want to buy sometrhing, go like this, if you want to borrow something, go like this

19:19:48 mircea_popescu: kid goes GLEEEERHRHRHR!!

19:19:49 Namworld: or something to that effect.

19:20:05 mircea_popescu: eventually shop owner calls the special down syndrome kid number to have the kid removed from the premises.

19:20:14 ThickAsThieves: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/81407694500/update-on-coinbase-data-security TLDR: There is nothing wrong with our system, but we fixed it

19:20:24 mircea_popescu: hopefully they find someone in new york whose brain works and they patch it up.

19:20:44 mircea_popescu: alternatively, they get a pitchfork mob going, and i'll have to hire a security detail around the shop.

19:20:46 mircea_popescu: either way, life.

19:21:04 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves such fucktards with this bs. just won't learn will they.

19:22:07 Namworld: Either way, people butthurt about buying too high from the bigger shareholders who sold when the price was high.

19:22:57 Namworld: If I recall right, I bought afterward, when price was much lower, not long before SD sold.

19:23:22 Namworld: and all holders on MPEx got a very good deal in that sale.

19:23:27 tg2: SEC isn't really used ot asking nicely

19:23:36 tg2: I know people involved in the awesomepennystocks.com fiasco

19:23:43 tg2: sledgehammer approach

19:24:09 tg2: take houses, take cars, indict everybody

19:24:18 mircea_popescu: tough tits for them. i was not kidding when i said their future is at stake. it is.

19:24:24 mircea_popescu: they wanna take a crap all over it, no big deal really.

19:24:35 Namworld: Basically, contract was respected. People are mad about the SD deal because they can't verify anything about the sale. They bought at a high price and claim Erik sold to "himself" for low after selling some shares for a very high price or other such accusations.

19:24:44 mircea_popescu: we give bitcoin to the russian-ec or to the chinese-ec or to the cyprus-ec

19:24:45 Namworld: Now, if they could prove that, the story would be different.

19:24:53 mircea_popescu: whoever finds a non-down syndrome kid first wins.

19:24:54 tg2: that's a tough accusation to clear

19:24:55 mircea_popescu: tis a race.

19:25:08 tg2: but yeah it does open the door to fukc al ot of people when you pull strings on both sides

19:25:13 tg2: ie: oh profits are down on dice..."

19:25:14 tg2: shares drop

19:25:16 tg2: -> buy back

19:25:27 tg2: that kind of stuff

19:25:45 Namworld: But without proof, contract was respected, shareholders got a great deal, and people are complaining about buying high before profits diminished and price going much lower.

19:25:54 tg2: "great deal"

19:26:20 mike_c: getting bought out well above market price is a great deal.

19:26:21 tg2: hard to calculate who got the great deal

19:26:23 tg2: and who didn't

19:26:25 mircea_popescu: afaik there was this longstanding theory that erik is betting with himself. i never could see any proof for it, people were welcome to find it etc.

19:26:28 tg2: but in general yes

19:26:44 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-question-of-the-year-in-btc/

19:26:44 ozbot: The question of the year in BTC pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:26:47 mircea_popescu: hardly any sort of news.

19:26:47 Namworld: They get 1/2 instead of 1/6th of what they paid because MPEx shareholders got about 3x too much for what the sale price was.

19:27:16 Namworld: They got like .0032 instead of ~0.0011 I think as the sale price commanded.

19:27:19 tg2: how much was bought over ipo

19:27:33 tg2: presumably it was sold by vorhees

19:27:39 tg2: then it deflated

19:27:43 Namworld: 10 million at 0.0022 and 0.0027 I think it was, in two slices. Or was it 3?

19:27:44 tg2: then bought back at "ipo" price

19:28:09 Namworld: The IPO was lower than the price holders got.

19:28:45 tg2: how high did it climb after ipo

19:28:54 Namworld: People complained because new shares were put up and sold in the 0.004-0.006 range if I recall right, for about 5 million shares?

19:29:57 Namworld: Afaik it was not Voorhees' I think, just one of the private shareholder selling. I suppose accusations come from people who bought then.

19:30:08 ThickAsThieves: it was actually the first thing i ever did in bitcoin communication, sent a msg to erik asking how it could be proven he wasnt stealing

19:30:25 ThickAsThieves: it's why i made a forum account

19:30:41 mircea_popescu: what did he say ?

19:30:46 ThickAsThieves: lemme find it

19:30:47 Namworld: They got the short end of the stick, but is it because a scam occured? Contract was respected and outperformed. They bought at the high.

19:31:11 Namworld: Now without proof Erik did anything wrong... what are you to do?

19:31:12 tg2: ultimately somebody had to buy above 'value'

19:31:22 tg2: whether or not erik did anything to deflate or inflate that value

19:31:28 tg2: is really the only way he could be guilty of anything

19:31:40 mircea_popescu: generally, btc stocks follow a hump pattern

19:31:48 mircea_popescu: asicminer went from .1 to 5 then to .5

19:31:48 ThickAsThieves: "What could stop SatoshiDice.com from using it's own profit pool to place bets on it's own site to hide profits from shareholders?

19:31:48 ThickAsThieves: Am I missing something about the setup that prevents this?"

19:31:56 ThickAsThieves: "Hi,

19:31:56 ThickAsThieves: How would this hide profits from shareholders? It would do the opposite... it would inflate the site's earnings (because 1.9% of all bets becomes site profit) and then would require that the site pay shareholders -more- than they should legitimately have.

19:31:56 ThickAsThieves: For example, if I took 10 btc of SD earnings and rebet it over and over and over, eventually it would all be owned to the shareholders on mpex because they would see that the site had xxxxxxx in bets and xxxxxxx in profit owed to them.

19:31:56 ThickAsThieves: Does that answer the question?

19:31:56 ThickAsThieves: -Erik"

19:32:05 mircea_popescu: many children, many people with no training or much understanding, lot of hype.

19:32:18 Namworld: A dose of mob justice, with unproven guiltyness??

19:32:18 tg2: yeah its pretty clear when you use fixed wallets

19:32:22 ThickAsThieves: "Yes, thank you Smiley

19:32:22 ThickAsThieves: I thought I had answered my own question after I sent my message to you. I thought your answer was going to be "Because all of the coins are stored in the public addresses on the home page, and everyone would see we were filtering out money". Do the coins all stay in the wallets posted on the home page (until dividends are paid), or do they get moved around in storage?

19:32:22 ThickAsThieves: Your answer makes sense though.

19:32:22 ThickAsThieves: Thanks again! "

19:32:24 tg2: to see where money and bets are going

19:32:29 ThickAsThieves: "The coins are not stored on the public addresses shown on the homepage. They go into a secret chamber buried underneath the arctic circle Wink

19:32:29 ThickAsThieves: -Erik"

19:32:30 ThickAsThieves: that's it

19:32:33 tg2: the only way to counterplay would be to know the private keys in advance

19:32:45 tg2: but you'd see the house % going down

19:32:51 ThickAsThieves: from January 2013

19:33:35 Namworld: Well to be fair, it's not a proof of innocence. But justice isn't supposed to work that way. It's not supposed to be guilty until proven innocent.

19:34:22 tg2: anybody working on a distirbuted-trust system for these types of scenarios?

19:34:38 tg2: where every voting shareholder gets a proportionate, verifyable voting mechanism?

19:35:27 mircea_popescu: tg2 anyway, you can take the message upstairs. "guy actually said you either play ball or he buries you, it seems improbable but he does have a history of doing exactly that."

19:35:29 tg2: I knew somebodyw as working on a wallet-splitter where you sent to an address and it split it by a fixed % and sent back out to the other x addresses

19:35:35 tg2: but you still ahve to trust the service

19:35:49 Namworld: I'm not sure how such a system would work to actually prevent fraud. Unless that system had exclusive amangement of funds. But then running a business would be close of impossible if all money spent needs to be approved by shareholders.

19:36:05 tg2: yeah I think the reality is it would be possible

19:36:08 Namworld: Plus it still doesn't prevent fraud...

19:36:16 Namworld: Assuming majority is in on the fraud...

19:36:47 tg2: but yeah ultimately it comes back to the same issue where the people running the business have to maek hte decisions

19:38:24 domsch: Hey guys, Dom here. I’m in the process of setting up a few businesses and am actively involved in a few crypto-hubs. Just wanted to hang out in a few IRC channels to talk with people from the space.

19:38:28 tg2: I guess there just needs to be more liability there

19:38:35 tg2: which is sort of why the SEC was created in the first place

19:38:37 ThickAsThieves: Hi Dom

19:39:19 benkay: what kinda biz, domsch?

19:39:33 kakobrekla: domsch prolly a good call.

19:40:28 domsch: Crypto-related. We are mostly concerned on the educational aspects of the space and are creating several tools that are there to add liquidity to the market and help users embrace the new technology (not just bitcoin of course) in their every day life.

19:40:40 benkay: add liquidity how?

19:40:51 benkay: where's the overlap between "educational aspects" and "tools to add liquidity"?

19:40:52 domsch: http://imgur.com/a/pVsEJ

19:40:52 ozbot: Bitcoin POS Terminal - Imgur

19:41:13 *: twizt thinks its time for a bunch of big words to be used, while making little to no practical sense

19:41:27 benkay: well that's better than a QR sticker.

19:41:36 kakobrekla: lol

19:41:45 domsch: educating and approaching the average consumer goes hand in hand.

19:42:03 domsch: and yes, it definitely is lol

19:42:08 Namworld: There's already large processors offering service plus conversion plus daily bank deposit for 1% fee.

19:42:09 ThickAsThieves: tell those BitcoinBigfoot guys that Dom

19:42:20 ThickAsThieves: they make "educational" brochures filled with logos

19:42:21 Namworld: But this little device is actually quite elegant.

19:42:27 benkay: bitcoin consumer tech, man.

19:42:41 benkay: just say no.

19:42:43 twizt: bro for something that big

19:42:50 twizt: it better play hd movies

19:43:01 ThickAsThieves: ascii porn at least

19:43:05 mircea_popescu: domsch who's "we" ?

19:43:07 benkay: .asciibait

19:43:35 twizt: that thing looks as big as a mac mini

19:43:41 twizt: lol

19:43:52 domsch: yes I really like what Bigfoot is doing. I don’t think that anyone in this space can be treated as a competitor (in broad perspective of course) - we are mostly all after the same and pursue the same ideals.

19:43:58 kakobrekla: its not meant to be carried around eh

19:44:04 mircea_popescu: dude. who. is. we.

19:44:05 benkay: you're all after the same thing but not competitors?

19:44:06 benkay: what?

19:44:21 domsch: me and my team. I’m not alone. We are around 7 people right now.

19:44:25 twizt: we is me

19:44:27 mircea_popescu: do you have a name ?

19:44:27 Namworld: A mac mini? This thing looks smaller than a small computer fan. How small is a mac mini?

19:44:28 twizt: I am we

19:44:54 mircea_popescu: dominik schiener sez your client. that you ?

19:45:19 domsch: yep.

19:45:34 mircea_popescu: you the 17yo italian guy with fileyy / 360box game hacks ?

19:45:58 kakobrekla: the name sounds german

19:46:03 domsch: I am actually 18. And I’m german.

19:46:07 mircea_popescu: europe. gets complicated.

19:46:12 mircea_popescu: ok. get in the wot, and read this :

19:46:13 domsch: and I have never owned an xbox.

19:46:28 twizt: https://angel.co/dominik-schiener

19:46:29 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/bitcoin-is-creating-a-whole-new-set-of-problems/

19:46:30 ozbot: Dominik Schiener - AngelList

19:46:30 ozbot: Bitcoin is creating a whole new set of problems pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:46:43 mircea_popescu: and i do mean read it.

19:47:18 domsch: ok hold on

19:47:25 mircea_popescu: take your time.

19:47:50 twizt: 18 years old developing hardware.. or ur professors doing it?

19:51:51 domsch: Good read. And I definitely agree with you on some of the aspects that young people (of my age, younger or older) are in this space to grasp an opportunity - these are the people that don’t see the future, the long-term benefit. These are the people that are there to fuck you in the ass when they see the slightest chance to get away with a few bucks.

19:52:21 benkay: what what, in the butt

19:52:44 domsch: I can tell you a personal story, how I tried to run my first startup, (a performance based advertising network, known as CPA = Cost Per Action) and how I was scammed out of my last $1000 and had to work over the summer as a construction worker to get enough money to continue working on the project.

19:53:17 domsch: I am not in this space to make a buck and seize every tiny opportunity, or even try to scam people. I’m here for the bigger picture. I may be young, I may be dumb - but I am trying.

19:53:29 benkay: ;;google fraudsters variety speak

19:53:59 benkay: "nobody knows how to make movies, but there are some people who know how to not make movies"

19:54:07 benkay: maybe reconsider the point-of-sale angle, sir.

19:56:49 mircea_popescu: domsch just don't let that grasping fuck you over.

19:57:02 mircea_popescu: a 50yo that fucks up is therefore losing his key for ages 51-70 or w/e

19:57:22 mircea_popescu: a 18yo that fucks up is losing his key for all time. you're risking a lot more than the 50yo, who already fucked the girls, drank the meads, got bored.

19:57:32 mircea_popescu: and in this space, fucking up is extremely easy. just ask danny.

19:57:39 mircea_popescu: or charlie or whoever.

19:58:34 mircea_popescu: benkay eh, he can't argue everything simultaneously. first let him you know... introduce it.

19:59:28 twizt: whos danny

19:59:43 mircea_popescu: danny "cyprus" brewster.

19:59:54 Namworld: domsch, so many young people with your mindset came around to do BTC services/business, only to have everything go down because of the tiniest mistake. BTC doesn't forgive, hackers don't forgive. Smallest error can doom you.

19:59:56 twizt: what company?

20:00:05 Namworld: High failure/scam ratio.

20:00:10 mircea_popescu: twbt newbie.

20:00:20 mircea_popescu: twizt i mean

20:00:32 twizt: neo bee?

20:00:43 twizt: it fucked up already? lol

20:00:51 mircea_popescu: if you prefer the cyrillics spelling

20:01:47 domsch: yeh I definitely understand where this is coming from. As people say: “It doesn’t matter what your idea is, it only mattes who you know.” That’s why I’m trying to be surrounded by the right guys. I am working on the networkign right now and meet the right people that have been there, done it.

20:02:20 mircea_popescu: aite, dun worry about it.

20:02:49 twizt: i wonder how much money neobee wasted on all that promotional crap

20:02:54 twizt: what are their sales?

20:02:55 twizt: lol

20:03:01 domsch: and don’t worry. I won#t be the Chief Compliance Officer, President, CEO, developer and support staff of this project lol

20:03:22 mike_c: what will you be?

20:03:36 ThickAsThieves: "we" of course!

20:03:45 twizt: I shall be we

20:03:50 twizt: gdammit ThickAsThieves

20:03:52 ThickAsThieves: it is written

20:03:53 twizt: beat me to it

20:03:57 domsch: an entrepreneur.

20:04:03 ThickAsThieves: a thought leader

20:04:24 twizt: We have written it, I shall be done

20:04:44 ThickAsThieves: is there an english word for entrepreneur, it's annoying

20:04:52 ThickAsThieves: business man

20:04:53 nubbins`: yes

20:04:53 ThickAsThieves: ?

20:04:57 mike_c: it would be better at this stage to attach yourself to a more experienced entrepreneur.

20:04:57 nubbins`: "entrepreneur" :D

20:05:02 twizt: BMEN

20:05:04 nubbins`: is there an english word for restaurant? :D

20:05:10 domsch: in the early days of a startup titles don’t matter anyways as we still have to prove all of the hypothesis and actually get a working model up and running. So all these fancy titles are useless. It’s about getting shit done.

20:05:15 thestringpuller: Man i love this channel

20:05:17 twizt: drive thru nubbins

20:05:23 thestringpuller: smarter over time

20:05:41 mike_c: domsch: that is bs. somebody is in charge.

20:05:41 thestringpuller: rather than the general trend of the internet to become less intelligent over time

20:05:46 pLambert: nubbins`: diner

20:05:50 twizt: domsch: all im reading is canned rhetroic lol

20:06:05 twizt: you sound too sales pitchy

20:06:08 nubbins`: pLambert: that's french too

20:06:09 twizt: (in my mental voice)

20:06:18 pLambert: eatery?

20:06:28 nubbins`: ehhh.

20:06:45 nubbins`: jim bob's rib hole is an eatery

20:06:52 nubbins`: different from a restaurant :D

20:07:03 thestringpuller: domsch: "Right and wrong are just words. It doesn't matter who you know or what you say. What matters...is what you do."

20:07:04 mike_c: it would be better to learn by attaching yourself to someone experienced. this is a bad industry to learn by failure for the reasons already mentioned.

20:07:17 domsch: there is definitely someone in charge. But what’s the point of all the titles in the early days?

20:07:19 pLambert: food-place

20:07:33 thestringpuller: mike_c: you can learn by failure via spectating

20:07:58 mike_c: to a degree. you still must get in the trenches to really learn.

20:08:01 domsch: great quote

20:08:52 thestringpuller: mike_c: true, you will never be able to fully comprehend the defense strategy against a large DDoS without having experienced it like say mircea_popescu

20:09:08 mike_c: or by working for mp when it happens.

20:09:56 truffles: <thestringpuller> u sure its him or he's paying some minions

20:10:14 thestringpuller: paying minions to DDoS him?

20:10:29 truffles: of expertise

20:11:04 ThickAsThieves: <twizt> you sound too sales pitchy /// methinks youre attacking the kid a bit too prematurely

20:11:18 thestringpuller: ThickAsThieves always the nice guy

20:11:21 ThickAsThieves: at least let him fuckup for himself before declaring him a fuckup

20:11:44 ThickAsThieves: he's here aint he?

20:12:10 truffles: noisy spectators get a bad rap itc

20:13:04 mircea_popescu: <twizt> i wonder how much money neobee wasted on all that promotional crap << me too. but it doesn't seem like theres ever going to be a report.

20:13:26 truffles: 0.0

20:13:42 mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> smarter over time << word. this shit sharpens under my very eyes. it's... uncanny.

20:14:25 mircea_popescu: whoa look at that, truffles still exists ?! when did that happen.

20:14:38 truffles: i happen all the time dood

20:15:12 mircea_popescu: dood eh ? so what were you in for these past few months ? larceny ? truculence ?

20:15:28 pankkake: promo crap, oracle license, building

20:15:47 truffles: u want to know why i left n returned just ask

20:15:57 truffles: im bored

20:16:21 thestringpuller: lol oracle license

20:16:27 thestringpuller: mpex doesn't even use oracle...

20:16:36 pankkake: MP is the oracle

20:16:40 truffles: i enjoy poking at u mp cuz others dont seem to dare :D

20:16:55 mircea_popescu: yeah but you suck at it.

20:16:57 thestringpuller: what about tiberius?

20:17:12 truffles: :(

20:17:40 truffles: i wouldnt wanna be good at that nonetheless

20:18:49 truffles: has ur english improved mp?

20:19:36 thestringpuller: ;;seen nanotube

20:19:45 truffles: ill wait for the spam n check it out i gues

20:23:50 twizt: i didnt say he was a fuck up lol

20:24:17 truffles: u said mp's a fuck up?

20:24:42 truffles: didnt say that*..

20:25:11 twizt: truffles: talking abt domsch

20:25:37 truffles: ofc some1 else ok

20:25:39 twizt: mysql server is free who need a oracle lisence?

20:26:43 twizt: open question: anyone know how i can pull the kraken spot price using their api? where do I insert the symbol/pair on the url to retrieve the price?

20:27:11 domsch: I wouldn’t say fuck-up. I am rather trying to participate and be actively involved.

20:27:23 twizt: im not calling u a fuckup lol

20:27:38 twizt: chill

20:27:43 truffles: domsch what do u do?

20:27:45 twizt: <3 all around

20:29:03 thestringpuller: domsch: lurk first. there will always be work to do. learn to do the work first tho

20:29:14 twizt: ^^

20:29:25 truffles: hint hint dont step on toes

20:29:33 twizt: lol truffles

20:29:46 twizt: nah fuck that burn bridges domsch

20:29:47 domsch: one of the products http://imgur.com/a/pVsEJ we have have been working on. But there is more to come.

20:30:16 domsch: and yes, lurking, reading and listening to the mistakes of others is probably the only way to be prepared for this.

20:30:31 truffles: only way..

20:30:37 truffles: so what is this

20:30:42 steven-__: very nice unit how much ?

20:30:54 pankkake: so it's a nfc payment terminal?

20:31:07 thestringpuller: looks like it uses QR codes too

20:31:12 pankkake: oh right

20:31:23 pankkake: pretty cool, very simple design

20:32:07 domsch: as a young kid that is just getting started, doing the above is pretty much the “only way” to prepare oneself. A problem that I have seen in the past is that a lot of people are reluctant to work with youngsters like me - which I do really understand.

20:32:30 truffles: do u look scary?

20:32:54 domsch: part of that is why it’s great that Internet and Bitcoin allows people to stay anonymous for some time and just convince the other person through words and their abilities.

20:32:55 truffles: if one can get the job done..

20:33:17 cazalla: he's got those shrem eyebrows that make you think twice

20:33:24 thestringpuller: domsch: you said "we" you don't have niggas?

20:33:31 thestringpuller: where's your crew?

20:33:44 domsch: haha - no I hope I don’t. But it’s most stereotypes with locals. I live in the Alps and people around here are process driven: You go to school, college, then you work for someone for a ffew years and ONLY then you can consider running the show.

20:33:48 twizt: we is me

20:34:16 gx: anyone with some BTC twitter followers wanna help a brother out with a retweet? trying to get our beta update out to the public. pm me if interested, thx. sex and drugs in return

20:34:31 twizt: lolol

20:34:33 domsch: and yes, this is an NFS terminal. They are not ready for serial production yet as we will do some tests in Zurich sometime soon.

20:34:44 domsch: NFC*

20:34:50 twizt: domsch check ur pm

20:34:56 truffles: oh u dont think any1 will copy it huh

20:35:15 domsch: ou I definitely do - we will open-source it all.

20:35:25 truffles: ohh

20:35:41 domsch: this is a gadget supposed to be there for the public use - it is there to add value, not generate money.

20:35:52 truffles: so its for free?

20:35:54 truffles: ??

20:36:37 gx: https://twitter.com/Coinigy/status/451094162037673984 <- fuck it. i dont understand social media. share it if you care

20:36:38 ozbot: Twitter / Coinigy: Coinigy Beta Update & ...

20:36:51 khersonus: domsch: gpl/bsd/something else?

20:37:27 truffles: if u paint it black it could be like a little black box :D

20:37:39 kakobrekla: >We Need Your Help

20:37:39 kakobrekla: As with any new startup, exposure and early adoption are the keys to success. Please help us out by telling your friends, liking our Facebook page and following us on twitter.

20:37:40 kakobrekla: --

20:37:41 domsch: all the CAD files + software will be free. But if you want to buy the actual unit (meaning already produced) you’ll have to pay. This is for those who don#t have access to a 3d printer and don’t want to go through the hassle.

20:37:42 kakobrekla: yes.

20:37:45 kakobrekla: impressions.

20:37:56 gx: kakobrekla is there something wrong with that line?

20:38:15 kakobrekla: well unless this is a faucet, then no

20:38:32 truffles: domsch ok, sounds interesting gl

20:39:05 kakobrekla: an exchange does not need facebook likes, it needs market makers, for example. and those arent on facebook.

20:39:13 gx: kakobrekla we're not an exchange.

20:39:13 thestringpuller: LOLOLOL

20:39:22 gx: reading comprehension goes a long way nowadays.

20:39:24 kakobrekla: faucet then

20:39:43 kakobrekla: dunno i would say you faild to convey the message

20:40:11 truffles: is the bitcoin message board down or something?

20:40:12 domsch: thanks a lot truffles.

20:40:26 gx: ok, thanks for the constructive criticism, any idea what we could do to improve on conveying the message?

20:40:34 kakobrekla: well

20:40:35 khersonus: "less than 20s of delay. This number will be lowered in time to only a few seconds." << I don't think I'd call that "low latency"

20:40:39 kakobrekla: when i open that link

20:40:45 kakobrekla: i get about 1000 px of white space first

20:40:57 kakobrekla: would be a good place to write "WE DO <this>"

20:41:05 kakobrekla: or "WE ARE <this>" or whatever

20:41:06 gx: which link specifically?

20:41:12 kakobrekla: http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=9f03eb56fbb3842181db7f674&id=c4520742b6

20:41:13 ozbot: Coinigy Beta Update & Screenshots

20:41:15 gx: the link is a copy of the email blast we just sent out

20:41:24 gx: are you on mobile perchance

20:41:27 kakobrekla: its what you gave me.

20:41:41 kakobrekla: no

20:41:43 gx: i understand, i was curious if you were getting whitespace on coinigy.com vs the link i gave you

20:41:52 gx: i'm not getting whitespace so i'm just inquiring

20:42:05 kakobrekla: anyway, pictures are bad

20:42:11 kakobrekla: you are not in photography biz

20:42:15 kakobrekla: as far as i can tell

20:42:16 kakobrekla: so far

20:42:20 gx: clearly not

20:42:24 gx: bad in what respect

20:42:39 gx: are you positive you're not looking at this on a tandy?

20:42:47 gx: ;)

20:42:55 truffles: so coinigy is the name?

20:43:10 kakobrekla: whatever, free advice ends here.

20:43:13 gx: correct. did we not convey the name properly?

20:43:20 truffles: coinigy?

20:43:22 gx: kakobrekla i'm just ribbing you a little bit

20:43:35 truffles: srsly?

20:44:24 *: truffles wants to go to all the btc startups and shake em

20:44:27 gx: truffles seriously? is that rhetorical? in which case, no- that's not the name.

20:44:42 truffles: what is the name

20:45:10 gx: we've been tossing some ideas around, such as MPEZ or HAVELOX. but they're not rolling off the tongue.

20:45:33 truffles: those sound a lot better though

20:45:56 gx: regardless, appreciate the feedback, as negative as it's been :)

20:46:13 truffles: if its great, i wont say one bad word

20:46:19 bounce: tandycoin

20:46:19 gx: can't improve without constructive criticism. so far apparently there's whitespace, the pictures are shit, and the name sucks

20:46:36 kakobrekla: i dont see any pictures so whatever content you got there is gone

20:46:36 truffles: dude that name is turrble

20:46:42 rithm: derp

20:46:51 gx: there's a pronunciation guide for you oin coinigy.com

20:46:54 gx: you racist bastard :)

20:47:12 kakobrekla: so this is aka btcrt

20:47:13 TomServo: first indicator that it's no good.

20:47:16 kakobrekla: or rtbtc

20:47:18 kakobrekla: or what is it

20:47:18 truffles: if u have great product none will care

20:47:21 pankkake: maybe because I'm French, coinigy is hard to pronounce

20:47:22 rithm: what is coinigy

20:47:22 truffles: so make it great

20:47:32 rithm: why are we calling people nigy's

20:47:41 phf`: gx: just fyi mac speech synth pronounces it as "coy-niggy"

20:48:15 kakobrekla: well, you have a presence on irc so props for that.

20:49:27 gx: kakobrekla regarding latency, the <20s is a catchall as not all exchanges offer websockets support. so we're forced to poll.

20:49:30 pankkake: google translate says coy niggy too

20:49:32 kakobrekla: what is the biz model of this?

20:49:51 truffles: lol at these pronounciations

20:49:51 twizt: fees kako

20:49:55 rithm: i'm not a coy nigger

20:50:07 kakobrekla: twizt you cant just say 'fees' and think you are done explaining

20:50:07 rithm: this site has upset me.

20:50:14 truffles: lol

20:50:21 gx: kakobrekla users purchase credits.

20:50:26 *: rithm runs off to eat watermelon

20:50:47 kakobrekla: credits , like a monthly subscription or ?

20:50:52 gx: credits are good for manual and auto trades

20:51:02 kakobrekla: so pay as you go

20:51:09 gx: not monthly, credits that are banked in your account, and are used up when you place a trade through the system

20:51:12 thestringpuller: damn mpoe is going to crash down before divs are paid

20:51:21 kakobrekla: yes, pay as you go.

20:51:31 mike_c: !t m mpoe

20:51:36 thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe

20:51:52 truffles: "We've been purposely vague up until this point as to what exactly Coinigy is, and how it works. " good stuff


20:52:16 kakobrekla: you know wouldnt hurt to list those

20:52:20 TomServo: truffles: exactly where I stopped reading.

20:52:31 kakobrekla: i have no idea what standards you got to apply for 'major'

20:52:32 truffles: im trying to continue

20:52:35 truffles: looked at pics though

20:53:01 kakobrekla: anyway time is out.

20:53:06 truffles: this is tldr stuff

20:53:17 truffles: dude i can shorten this up for u

20:53:22 gx: it's an email blast that we sent to our subscribers, it's not meant to be short nor tldr

20:53:28 thestringpuller: damn stop wasting kako's time

20:53:30 thestringpuller: he has like

20:53:30 truffles: umk

20:53:32 thestringpuller: stuff to do

20:53:58 thestringpuller: ask kako .01 btc / answer

20:54:09 truffles: its kinda bad was offering free help u know

20:54:11 gx: regardless, we're still in alpha, we're not listing the specific exchanges although they can be seen in the screenshots.

20:54:54 gx: i appreciate any help- and i expected criticism. main thing is just trying to get the word out.

20:54:54 truffles: anyways it nice to see creativity

20:55:00 thestringpuller: okay don't listen gx

20:55:02 thestringpuller: get the word out

20:55:08 thestringpuller: have a bunch of people use your product

20:55:15 thestringpuller: then it fails for the smallest reason

20:55:17 thestringpuller: then everyone hates you

20:55:24 truffles: i wont hate u

20:55:30 thestringpuller: truffles won't hate you

20:56:46 gx: i don't care if anyone hates me, i pasted it here for a reason, harshest critics :)

20:57:06 truffles: i think theyre being nice though

20:58:11 thestringpuller: gx hate is a dumb word, lets use distrust instead

20:58:28 truffles: u trust him now then

20:58:32 thestringpuller: if people distrust you, then you have no foundation at all, and getting this "word out" is meaningless

20:59:03 gx: understandable. we'll be updating the site with more information about us, including shoe pics, SSNs, etc soon.

20:59:30 mike_c: ;;gettrust gx

20:59:31 twizt: lol

20:59:38 rithm: ;;ident

20:59:44 rithm: no trust here either gx

20:59:49 rithm: don't feel bad

20:59:59 gx: you guys are really crushing my soul right now.

21:00:18 twizt: dude who cares look at ur [m

21:00:20 twizt: pm*

21:00:21 twizt: lol

21:00:23 truffles: u can always start over

21:00:23 mircea_popescu: gx so who might you be ?

21:00:56 gx: mircea_popescu i'm just a coder with ambition, that's all. and i've done trades on otc, just not under this nick

21:01:07 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust gx

21:01:22 mircea_popescu: well under which nick ?

21:01:48 thestringpuller: This user is currently NOT AUTHENTICATED. This user has not authenticated for more than 311 days. If you are currently talking to someone who claims to be this person, you may be talking to an impostor and scammer.

21:01:49 gx: i'm trying to remember, it was a damn long time ago

21:02:02 thestringpuller: smh

21:02:10 mircea_popescu: so then nm that neh ?

21:02:17 mircea_popescu: anyway. so you're a coder with ambition. got a name ?

21:02:33 gx: sure, my name is william kehl. add me to your untrusted sources file :)

21:02:43 mircea_popescu: phf` lmao that's pretty kickass a name

21:02:58 BingoBoingo: http://www.mst.edu/

21:02:58 ozbot: Missouri University of Science and Technology

21:03:03 mircea_popescu: aite.

21:03:13 gx: anyways. my otc nick wouldve been gxdia or guardia, guess i didnt deal with that. maybe i'm thinking of litecoin otc

21:03:19 gx: if that exists

21:03:24 mircea_popescu: afaik it does not.

21:03:34 mircea_popescu: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php that's a full list tho

21:03:35 rithm: ;;gpg info guardia

21:03:45 rithm: ;;gpg info gxdia

21:04:04 thestringpuller: ;;gpg info gx

21:04:12 rithm: bam

21:04:14 gx: guess not- i've bought and sold via irc though. a few years ago. guess i'll register with otc and then all will be well

21:04:27 mircea_popescu: o look TomServo lives. /me waves

21:04:31 rithm: ;;balance 14nQyQz1mxgPTmq7BGTQpgtT6mGdmsikeD

21:04:35 gx: since having an otc account is some standard of trust, lmao

21:04:37 thestringpuller: lol

21:04:39 rithm: you guys are stalkers sheesh

21:04:51 thestringpuller: WoT works tho...

21:04:54 TomServo: mircea_popescu: Ahoy!

21:05:01 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust Athero

21:05:08 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust Aethero

21:05:11 rithm: aethero

21:05:15 rithm: like the butterfly

21:05:29 rithm: it's a genus or a species i do not reminder

21:05:37 mircea_popescu: this log is too short. pls thestringpuller to halp elongating ty.

21:05:37 rithm: lepidoptera was his girl

21:06:23 mircea_popescu: gx ok so you're an ambitious coder by the name of kehl, and you did what ?

21:06:42 mircea_popescu: some sort of autotrader script or am i not following ?

21:07:03 gx: metrics and autotrading script that ties into multiple exchanges, yes.

21:07:19 mircea_popescu: cool.

21:07:26 gx: and i'm still digging up my otc account

21:07:28 gx: i swear i have one

21:07:40 mircea_popescu: you have any sort of relevant background ? like being a quant or a latency tech or something ?

21:07:43 gx: ctrl+f'ing all over the place

21:08:11 gx: mircea_popescu i'm just a coder, but my biz partner has experience with quant and we have advisors who are daytraders

21:08:33 mircea_popescu: ic.

21:08:47 mircea_popescu: well, lotsa new people on here these days, pretty cool.

21:09:00 gx: i've been idling in here for quite awhile, just dont speak up much

21:09:21 mircea_popescu: either that or you're significantly brighter than the average and just got lucky.

21:10:07 mircea_popescu: anyway. i gotta go now to stand trial as a witness in a civil proceeding @ a local bar, so.

21:10:14 mircea_popescu: plz don't break bitcoin while i

21:10:16 mircea_popescu: 'm gone.

21:10:18 gx: enjoy

21:10:23 mircea_popescu: i wanna be here to liveblog it when it happens.

21:11:21 diametric: so, i'm sifting through the scrollback. some kind of daytrading tool coming out soon?

21:11:37 gx: i also have to bow out for some beers, it's been a pleasure, thanks for the lambasting everyone

21:11:40 gx: ;) hugz

21:50:51 benkay: did i hear truffles is back?

22:01:44 benkay: truffles is back, all these new faces

22:01:49 benkay: something's fishy.

22:38:28 zacm: WOW mpex in bloomberg

22:40:37 arizona: yessiree

22:41:38 tg2: Dun dun dunnnn

22:44:20 benkay: not the old news?

22:44:58 benkay: or very much the old news.

22:45:05 dexX7: live? link?

22:47:02 benkay: http://search1.bloomberg.com/search/?content_type=all&page=1&q=mpex

22:47:03 ozbot: mpex - Bloomberg Search

22:47:15 dexX7: 21 Mar 2014?

22:47:15 benkay: silly socks are silly, trolling with old news

22:47:21 dexX7: yea

22:47:31 benkay: zacm, arizona, tg2

22:47:37 benkay: no subtlety, these guys.

22:47:57 dexX7: i think zacm is legit, have seen him in #bitfunder for a long time

22:48:10 benkay: ah well bitfunder == legit then nooz to me

22:48:17 tg2: what about arizona

22:49:00 tg2: oic, sock accuasations from benkay - ahem

22:49:44 tg2: ;;gpg eauth tg2

22:49:55 benkay: well, 'sock'

22:50:11 benkay: who are you again?

22:50:49 tg2: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:288632a9b19b898d49bd8da2a1e442d4f3aac51b71cde6fc8d4609ae

22:50:57 pankkake: zacm is a legit idiot, yes

22:51:13 tg2: benkay why u calling me a sock

22:51:29 tg2: sock for who

22:51:34 tg2: which secret agenda am I pushing here lol

22:51:39 benkay: u savvy scare quotes?

22:52:04 tg2: scare for what?

22:52:26 benkay: implies b) c) or d) definitions for word

22:52:39 benkay: or maybe just a shibboleth

22:53:07 benkay: hard to tell on the internet.

22:53:09 benkay: hello?

22:53:10 benkay: this is dog.

22:54:16 tg2: you skipped your clozaril regimen?

22:54:44 benkay: !b 8

22:55:47 KRS-One: .bait

22:55:49 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m305oyIb8V1qf3yy5o1_1280.jpg

22:55:55 tg2: > implying

22:56:03 KRS-One: T'sup nubbins.

22:56:17 pankkake: nice dress

22:56:17 nubbins`: having a business meeting :0

22:57:15 benkay: well get off irc! how rude.

22:57:46 tg2: > business meeting is on irc

22:57:50 zacm: hm

22:59:01 zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess

22:59:21 benkay: what, govcoin?

22:59:36 zacm: the article is from 2014-03-19 but I only saw it today from this bitcointalk post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.0

22:59:42 benkay: not three years of 'forum sucks, mpex at least isn't a scam' getting under everyone's skin?

22:59:44 dexX7: ah okay

22:59:48 dexX7: yea it's kinda old news

22:59:53 zacm: benkay, or whatever the federally approved crypto ends up being...

23:00:12 tg2: federally approved lol

23:00:13 dexX7: there is another thread opened by mpoe-pr

23:00:44 benkay: o there's a new photo of mircea_popescu

23:00:48 dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.0

23:00:49 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide

23:00:57 tg2: mpoe-pr lol

23:02:09 pankkake: that pic is horrible. *saves*

23:09:46 tg2: has anybody put any thought into a bitcoin insurance company?

23:10:00 tg2: not in the sense that "oh we'll replace your bitcoins if they get stolen or lost" type of stuff

23:10:08 dexX7: but?

23:10:08 tg2: but for insuring companies that are traded

23:10:21 dexX7: ?

23:10:31 neilol: like a credit default swap

23:10:33 neilol: i guess

23:10:34 dexX7: ah

23:10:40 neilol: need a derivative market

23:10:46 tg2: would make sense

23:10:55 tg2: you'd have to evaluate the business being insured

23:10:56 neilol: might be tough to get someone to take the other side

23:10:59 tg2: figure out a premium that makes sense

23:11:16 benkay: which companies would you insure, tg2 ?

23:11:20 dexX7: well, there are afaik a few who want to open an insurance serivce.. even this twobitsidiot

23:11:32 tg2: any companies, they companies would pay the insurance as a sign of faith against insolvency

23:11:33 dexX7: and reddit rumors mentioned a "big player"

23:12:07 benkay: well given that 99% of 'bitcoin companies' are barely concealed scams, the thing doesn't fly unless you can point at a potential customer that's not a scam.

23:12:14 neilol: well SecondMarket CEO said that some large insurance companies were approaching him looking to create products around btc

23:12:19 tg2: maybe not like insurance, but instead a certification

23:12:29 neilol: like an auditor

23:12:35 neilol: someone audited coinbase

23:12:36 dexX7: ah, i think that was what i meant, neilol

23:12:49 tg2: well not exactly

23:12:54 neilol: its definitely a business

23:12:55 turbo_ac100: There is a working bitbet search plugin on mycroft now (no ref :P). The 2nd hit is the right one. For it to make sense it should be made auto-discoverable though. Like so https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Creating_OpenSearch_plugins_for_Firefox#Autodiscovery_of_search_plugins

23:13:02 tg2: there would be certification requirements

23:13:07 tg2: like proving that you are solvent every so often

23:13:11 tg2: proving that you follow certain guidelines

23:13:15 dignork: neilol, but audit was strictly technical, keys safety etc.

23:13:20 tg2: proving that certain key individuals are known identities

23:13:24 tg2: and who have actual real-world assets

23:13:28 tg2: without having them divulge that

23:13:31 tg2: but if they break their certification

23:13:39 tg2: everybody knows right away

23:14:00 tg2: a hybrid bond/certification system

23:14:04 neilol: yeah dignork you're right. I'm thinking something like a KPMG or Deloitte would do

23:14:12 benkay: seems a bit premature. there's barely anyone to trust in the first place, much less people in whom one can trust instead of actually trusting your counterparty.

23:14:19 neilol: full rip through of financials, accounts, investory etc and certify books match real life

23:14:24 tg2: no but I think that now would be time for that

23:14:46 benkay: neilol: let's just get someone who's not an MPEx scam to issue financials first before we worry about auditing those financials, eh?

23:14:54 neilol: haha

23:14:58 mike_c: he's not kidding.

23:15:00 benkay: tg2: so start building some trust. run that operation.

23:15:05 tg2: it allows exchanges to prove to a certain degree of trust that that they are solvent without having to show their cold wallets to everybody

23:15:14 tg2: liek an audit

23:15:17 neilol: wild west has its drawbacks

23:15:23 tg2: but with an additional level of oversight

23:15:45 benkay: tg2: you'll have to overcome the stigma ratings agencies in btc face post-pirate.

23:16:02 neilol: begs the question: how could you do an audit without counter party trust

23:16:09 neilol: might be an oxymoron

23:16:14 benkay: no that is actually the question

23:16:24 benkay: trust is that which all business runs on.

23:16:28 benkay: no trust, no business.

23:16:47 benkay: "trust but verify" requires trusting first.

23:16:57 kakobrekla: turbo_ac100 the second hit?

23:17:23 tg2: it does yes

23:17:38 tg2: why do people trust bonds

23:17:40 HeySteve: working on a Proof of Trust coin. the Web of Trust has been an inspiration

23:17:42 tg2: why do they trust fannie/freddy

23:17:57 tg2: not that it isn't misplaced

23:17:57 benkay: tg2: why do they trust neobee?

23:18:06 benkay: tg2: why did they trust pirate?

23:18:14 benkay: tg2: why do people by pmbs?

23:18:38 tg2: well that is different, those people had direct interests with the company they were representing

23:18:44 mike_c: we need a trusted auditing company like Arthur Anderson

23:18:57 mike_c: then this shit won't happen anymore

23:19:11 benkay: we need companies that need auditing first, mike_c .

23:19:15 benkay: "need", also.

23:19:31 tg2: <benkay> we need companies that need auditing first, mike_c .

23:19:47 mike_c: ugh. how old are you guys?

23:19:54 mike_c: is enron before your time?

23:19:55 tg2: <benkay> well given that 99% of 'bitcoin companies' are barely concealed scams

23:19:56 benkay: too young :)

23:20:02 benkay: not entirely.

23:20:27 tg2: I think there is a need for this kind of liability secured "trust"

23:20:27 benkay: but let's go down the list by market cap, shall we?

23:20:41 benkay: who's got the biggest mktcap in btc-denominated securities?

23:20:44 tg2: sort of like a whoisguard but that holds the parties behind it responsible and sets up audit procedures and processes they have to follow

23:20:52 tg2: like a hybrid ISO and compliance board

23:21:07 tg2: really a 3rd party

23:21:28 tg2: who's best interest is in securing these businseses

23:21:36 benkay: ;;calc 0.00094307 * 1000000000

23:21:43 benkay: so that's mpex

23:21:50 benkay: almost a mil.

23:22:01 tg2: 500m $USD

23:22:14 tg2: yet it holds no liability to the companies it lists OR the individuals that invest in it

23:22:22 tg2: *invest in those companies

23:22:52 benkay: "holds no liability to the companies it lists"

23:22:54 benkay: uh

23:23:03 benkay: like i'm twelve, please.

23:23:10 tg2: its worth $500m

23:23:19 benkay: 943k, but semantics.

23:23:20 tg2: that is no security against the companies it lists running away and taking everyones $

23:23:31 benkay: are you familiar with bitvps, tg2 ?

23:23:38 tg2: yes i just read it actually

23:23:42 tg2: from the link posted by mircea_popescu before

23:23:57 benkay: so...

23:25:12 tg2: you're asking how a situation like that could have been mitigated by sucha trust organization?

23:25:47 benkay: har the value of S.MPOE is probably in that mircea_popescu delisted bitvps 'aggressively', whereas everyone else lists outright scams.

23:26:06 benkay: not really. everyone got paid out at par per the contract.

23:26:09 benkay: nothing to mitigate.

23:26:19 tg2: who paid them out

23:26:23 benkay: mpex

23:26:28 benkay: this trust thing, you see.

23:26:29 tg2: ok, I didn't read that in the delisting doc

23:26:50 benkay: well if it didn't happen you have quite the scoop there

23:26:54 tg2: no legal recourse from mpex -> bitvps?

23:27:01 benkay: ;;google fraudsters gpg contracts

23:27:05 benkay: no recourse in bitcoin.

23:27:21 tg2: but this company operates in the meatspace

23:27:52 benkay: think about it for a while

23:27:55 benkay: read the stuff

23:28:08 benkay: everything ultimately operates in meatspace.

23:28:10 benkay: ffs...

23:28:34 kakobrekla: that link should be in the wiki

23:28:43 tg2: I honestly wasn't aware that mpex paid out for delinquent listings

23:28:56 benkay: tg2: you should read the listing contracts.

23:30:24 benkay: so anyways if you come up with anyone to whom you'd sell this bond/insurance/rating thinger let us know

23:30:29 benkay: but it sounds a little defocused.

23:30:43 turbo_ac100: kakobrekla: second hit when searching on mycroft. There are two versions since they (he?) do versioning by hand. Since 1998 I guess...

23:30:51 tg2: I'm just surprised that noone has pursued it, it seems that mpex is doing just that however by covering their delinquent listers

23:31:02 tg2: so that is good to see, not sure why that isn't advertised more prominently

23:31:34 kakobrekla: turbo_ac100 i managed to come to that page but i still dot get it, what is the url that needs to be provided for the plugin

23:31:39 benkay: refrain of everyone who's looked into mpex more thoroughly, tg2

23:31:44 benkay: been there myself

23:32:00 benkay: the 'why' tho is that mp doesn't care about people who don't read in detail.

23:32:38 tg2: makes sense

23:32:49 tg2: I read the listing criteria I saw nothing about absolving personal liability in ti

23:32:57 tg2: other than WOT

23:33:04 benkay: well read the gpg contracts thing

23:33:05 kakobrekla: apparently theres some xml file ?

23:33:22 tg2: but I guess that would go against it

23:33:22 benkay: 'no recourse in bitcoin'

23:33:27 tg2: ^

23:34:43 kakobrekla: turbo_ac100 can you pastebin the xml ?

23:35:28 turbo_ac100: sure

23:38:52 turbo_ac100: http://pastebin.com/X6T6RJ19

23:38:52 ozbot: [XML] bitbet search - Pastebin.com

23:40:06 turbo_ac100: The "template" part should be axed. The mail address used was a meltmail.

23:40:25 antephialtic: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/01/us-bitcoin-mtgox-karpeles-idUSBREA3021920140401?irpc=932

23:40:26 ozbot: Judge orders Mt Gox CEO to U.S. for questions on failed bitcoin exchange

23:40:42 antephialtic: Karpeles in the US - should be interesting

23:44:30 kakobrekla: added to bitbet, can someone with firefox confirm it is actually working

23:45:23 mike_c: it should be here? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?atype=4

23:45:53 kakobrekla: i have no clue

23:47:03 mike_c: might have worked http://i.imgur.com/WD4R2ZI.png

23:47:15 mike_c: i don't know if that was there before :)

23:47:36 turbo_ac100: for me it says Firefox couldn't download search engine http://bitbet.us/media/search.xml

23:48:13 mike_c: "error on line 10 at column 16: Opening and ending tag mismatch: Image line 0 and SearchPlugin"

23:48:32 turbo_ac100: newline fuck up?

23:48:49 mike_c: looks like <os:Image tag is not closed

23:49:12 mike_c: or rather, it is closed before the 'data' element.

23:49:32 turbo_ac100: ehm.

23:49:41 turbo_ac100: my bad. Just a second

23:49:49 kakobrekla: hm

23:49:56 kakobrekla: i removed one part of it

23:50:05 kakobrekla: this

23:50:06 kakobrekla: <os:Url type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" method="GET" template="http://mycroftproject.com/updateos.php/id0/bitbetusv4.xml" rel="self">

23:50:06 kakobrekla: </os:Url>

23:50:14 mike_c: i mean this line:

23:50:17 kakobrekla: isnt this waht you said to axe out


23:51:15 kakobrekla: a yea

23:52:00 turbo_ac100: http://pastebin.com/sax3cFV7

23:52:00 ozbot: [XML] bitbet search - Pastebin.com

23:52:22 kakobrekla: aha

23:52:41 kakobrekla: what about that get template thing

23:53:35 kakobrekla: mike_c does it work nao?

23:54:18 mike_c: looks good to me

23:54:25 turbo_ac100: second to last line there is a 'template=' part pointing to mycroft that *shouldn't* be needed since you can't use the template anyway

23:54:30 turbo_ac100: works here too

23:54:36 kakobrekla: great, thank you both

23:54:40 kakobrekla: ;;rated turbo_ac100

23:54:52 kakobrekla: ;;rate turbo_ac100 1 did a firefox plugin for bitbet

23:55:05 kakobrekla: do you have a handle?

23:55:44 turbo_ac100: Will register. Haven't done so for too long. I'll come back to you.

23:55:54 kakobrekla: okie

23:55:54 mike_c: just what i needed.. easier access to bitbet. there goes another pile of coins.

23:56:00 kakobrekla: lol

23:56:01 mike_c: thanks turbo_ac100!

23:56:15 turbo_ac100: Itch == scratched!