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Transcript for 01-09-2015, 1489 lines:

00:14:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7959 @ 0.00068778 = 5.474 BTC [-]

00:24:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15423 @ 0.00068778 = 10.6076 BTC [-]

00:35:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00068729 = 13.2647 BTC [-] {2}

00:40:58 mod6: asciilifeform: I took a look at v99 just briefly, so far, looks good. I dropped in my sigs from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000158.html into ~/.seals along with the sigs/*.sig files that it comes with and I was able to genereate the following: http://dpaste.com/198XBTF.txt

00:40:59 assbot: [BTC-dev] orchestra+breath-of-life (UPDATED) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLszWf )

00:41:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q4VGbt )

00:41:53 mod6: Will work through some more of this tomorrow after I get the SoBA out.

00:59:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00068406 = 4.6516 BTC [-]

01:00:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dulap ~still~ trailing by 35 blx

01:01:01 asciilifeform: mod6: neato. try 'pressing', get a feel for how it works.

01:02:06 mod6: ok i'll give it a whirl.

01:03:28 asciilifeform: http://xkcd.com/1571 << l337 m4rk3t1ng

01:03:29 assbot: xkcd: Car Model Names ... ( http://bit.ly/1JI76RF )

01:04:36 asciilifeform: who wouldn't want a 'toyota cervixxx' !

01:05:08 asciilifeform: take the ol' 'nissan doody' and 'volkswagen woodpony' to the scrapyard.

01:05:49 phf: growing up on a dacha i remember putting quicklime (calcium oxide) into sealed containers with water. one time a friend of mine got his vein opened with glass shrapnel, my grandfather drove him to a hospital and that was the extent of drama, no national news, no "dangers of quicklime", no concerned mothers calling for bans

01:05:49 mod6: haha 'toyota cervixxx'

01:05:59 *: asciilifeform once heard allegation that virtually all major product names, esp. in usa, are purchased from one particular firm specializing in names...

01:07:10 asciilifeform: phf: related: http://yarchive.net/med/social_osteoporosis.html

01:07:11 assbot: Social osteoporosis (Steven B. Harris, M.D.) ... ( http://bit.ly/1JI7Aae )

01:07:13 mod6: i've kinda heard this too - you buy a word from them that hits on certain brain based reactions. something like that.

01:08:57 *: punkman made crappy gunpowder with other kids, nobody was maimed

01:09:06 *: asciilifeform also

01:10:06 phf: oh man, i think we would build another version of "metal pipe + match shavings" every other summer

01:10:30 asciilifeform: good for 20years-to-life (tm) in good old usa

01:11:15 asciilifeform: 'possession of terrorist weapon'

01:12:20 phf: i thought twice before googling "негашеная известь бомба" just now, pretty sure on a list at this point. thought i suspect hanging out on b-a does that too

01:12:54 asciilifeform: phf: american kids make same jar with vinegar and soda, iirc

01:15:23 mats: such interesting childhoods

01:16:47 punkman: hydrochloric acid and strips of aluminum foil > vinegar

01:17:10 asciilifeform: punkman: point being that boy finds vinegar in mother's kitchen

01:17:34 punkman: asciilifeform: and hydrochloric acid in the bathroom cleaning materials

01:17:55 asciilifeform: punkman: uncommon in modern usa

01:18:07 asciilifeform: punkman: usually it is either ammonia, or enzymatic detergent crud

01:18:39 asciilifeform: heavy on the perfumes and dyes, light on items-which-actually-dissolve-things

01:18:46 punkman: I never mixed the thing myself, but I saw a kid make a pretty big fireball once

01:19:21 phf: oh vinegar is acetic acid

01:19:44 asciilifeform: much of the 'progress' in common household chem in the past few decades focused on making things less... repurposable

01:20:23 asciilifeform: from sneeze meds that are less meth-worthy to floor cleaners lacking acids

01:20:28 phf: seems like it's the same in pharmacology

01:20:49 asciilifeform: phf: aha. dxm, for instance, is just codeine-with-less-bloodbrainbarrier-penetration

01:21:00 asciilifeform: ditto loperamide (antidiarrheal common in usa)

01:21:21 asciilifeform: and prolly six other common pharmacy items i can't recall immediately.

01:21:29 asciilifeform: all the same basic theme.

01:21:44 asciilifeform: 'slave has no business doing what is not on the menu'

01:21:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00068346 = 11.9606 BTC [-] {4}

01:23:08 asciilifeform: this, just as was predicted ~15 years ago, is to be applied to electronics as well as chemistry.

01:23:12 asciilifeform: see thread, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257284

01:23:12 assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 17:49:55; ascii_field: trinque: it is about more than wifi in particular, but the entire box it happens to be installed in

01:23:54 phf: more like bureaucratic cancer. bureaucrat is "responsible" for an area of human endeavor, same way as cancer is responsible for your lungs or liver

01:23:55 asciilifeform: general-purpose programmable computer is far more feared by usg than the most powerful dynamite.

01:26:58 asciilifeform: young people already make a face of disbelief if you tell'em that when you were a boy it was routine to modify the asm routines of your os directly, or bypass them entirely

01:27:15 asciilifeform: or that 'remote update' was not yet a thing

01:28:25 asciilifeform: this trend carries on.

01:28:52 asciilifeform: it was naive of rms & co. to predict 'microshit will ban linux' in '01 or whenever the 'palladium' thing started going

01:29:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00068496 = 21.0968 BTC [+]

01:29:13 asciilifeform: no one is banning linux. instead there is a 'linux foundation' (see log) which will sign 'legit, non-terrorist' kernels for you

01:29:23 asciilifeform: that you can run on the nintendoized cpu.

01:29:31 asciilifeform: complete with systemd-in-silicon

01:30:35 asciilifeform: unless mircea_popescu pulls a cpu fab out of his shirt pocket, there is nothing preventing this disease from progressing.

01:31:31 phf: it's a common thread here, the whole rise of "open" as true openness disappears. to paraphrase snl skit, "our hardware is maker open - what does that mean? - not open"

01:32:03 phf: odd to read rms from 10-15 years ago and see his predictions come out right..

01:32:27 asciilifeform: phf: except, in ways no one afaik particularly expected to be possible, ~more~ direly than rms predicted.

01:32:36 phf: yes!

01:33:10 asciilifeform: this is because rms likely grew up on the usual 20th c. dystopian fictions where there is always folks struggling to escape, etc

01:33:36 asciilifeform: on account of how you can't really write an engaging yarn about inhabitants of the real thing, as we have it

01:33:51 phf: right, well, it's the whole 1984 vs brave new world

01:34:42 asciilifeform: in real world, 'telescreen' is not in every room but in every toilet stall, and people not only do not hide from it but pose for it, and complain about not enough resolution on the ccd.

01:36:05 asciilifeform: re: 'nintendoized' cpu: folks who are counting on the chinese to 'carry the torch' of real computer, are fooling themselves

01:36:10 asciilifeform: they are not interested in it any more than usg is.

01:37:02 asciilifeform: they would, in fact, make exact copies of intel's crud (complete with nsa) -- if they could. (ever wonder why they do not?)

01:38:43 punkman: they don't?

01:38:51 asciilifeform: nope.

01:38:55 phf: it's probably heinlein point, true freedom exists only at frontier, but because folk are preoccupied with practical things like "how to survive" rather then "my neighbor is smoking weed and ~gasp~ enjoying it"

01:39:02 asciilifeform: and even their cheap 'arm' cores are direct-licensed now, from britain.

01:40:24 phf: while china is playing catch up, you get a computing equivalent of wild west with areas where the control simply didn't have resources to manifest, as soon as u.s. stops driving chip design, china will start closing up same holes u.s. is in the process of closing up right now

01:40:40 asciilifeform: this is a perpetual 'will tomorrow'

01:40:57 asciilifeform: so far, EVERY SINGLE SI FAB ON THE PLANET and ALL THE DESIGN TOOLING (with the exception of chuck moore's...) runs on winblowz

01:41:04 asciilifeform: with the same 3 american vendors supplying it

01:41:10 asciilifeform: (at a few $mil a pop)

01:41:27 asciilifeform: there is no sign of the slightest threat of this changing.

01:42:10 asciilifeform: and - even aside from the winblowz, this actually matters. none of it will do general-purpose asynchronous logic, for instance.

01:42:59 asciilifeform: and this is just one particular kind of factory, note.

01:43:20 asciilifeform: one time, out of idle curiosity, i looked into what it would have taken .ir to run natanz u refinery on not-winblowz

01:43:30 asciilifeform: they would have had to build own electronics industry then.

01:43:45 phf: it's the main factory though, since everything else can be done pashtun style

01:43:58 asciilifeform: this is also an illusion

01:44:26 asciilifeform: try making so much as something like a reasonable diesel engine 'pashtun-style'

01:45:33 asciilifeform: there is, after all, a reason why civilized men drive ferrari while the pashtun lives and dies in own shit and fucks goats

01:45:52 asciilifeform: and is only alive because civilized man has not computed a +roi for neutron-bombing him

01:48:58 phf: that's not a problem that i'm facing though, since i don't know of diddle diesel engines (i'm sure they are but..)

01:50:32 asciilifeform: phf: diddling is not the only or even the most traditional exertion of control by the crown

01:50:46 asciilifeform: more commonly it is simply to deny modern tech to the vanquished

01:50:56 asciilifeform: as american pc was denied to su

01:51:04 asciilifeform: or cnc milling machine

01:51:13 asciilifeform: or rifle, to the zulu

01:51:18 asciilifeform: etc.

01:52:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00068321 = 7.7203 BTC [-]

01:53:34 phf: i don't know how much of this concern is driving cause vs. purposes, i.e. real limitations experiences by you vs. building civilization from first principles anathema millenials style.

01:53:44 phf: *is driven by

01:54:56 phf: i know that my computing rug is slowly being swept from under me

01:58:01 asciilifeform: the rug was somewhat imaginary to begin with.

02:02:07 phf: that's obvious with hindsight, but imaginary in the same sense that лихие 90ые were imaginary, or really any other "interesting times"

02:02:22 asciilifeform: aha.

02:02:57 asciilifeform: but more practically, user hasn't had true grasp of his hardware for a very long time. at least since mid-80s.

02:03:03 asciilifeform: so he was 'spread but not entered yet'

02:04:49 asciilifeform: or think of even something so humble as msdos. despite the fact that you could fill several bookcases with material like 'norton's guide', 'undocumented dos', etc. the thing was never fully reverse-engineered by anyone

02:04:58 asciilifeform: to the point that 'freedos' still won't run certain gamez

02:05:12 asciilifeform: and this despite the fact that msdos 6.2 source leaked in late '90s

02:05:20 asciilifeform: (freedos folks make a show of refusing to look at it)

02:07:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00068321 = 15.0989 BTC [-]

02:09:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00068321 = 21.3162 BTC [-]

02:09:47 phf: yes nobody will be able to build freewindows10

02:21:12 phf: at some point you had SAIL and Augment basically design by men for men, lisp machines, xerox park as products of that. later you get two bit hacks selling imperfect copies of the glimpsed technology, thats your 80s and 90s. at this point there's already "no grasp", but the control is limited, basically a byproduct of commercialism. now you get the next stage, which is when the bureaucrats are getting involved

02:26:40 BingoBoingo: cmake is a piece of shit

02:27:57 gernika: my daughter is currently playing with logo on freedos. freedos is perfect for kids.

02:28:35 gernika: boots up to C:\. Then they just have to type in the name of the game they want to play and hit enter.

02:32:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14813 @ 0.0006831 = 10.1188 BTC [-] {3}

02:34:15 asciilifeform: gernika: no argument. my point concerned the traditional argument 'oh but anything can be reverse-engineered perfectly'

02:34:32 asciilifeform: yes, it can. but it is rare for anyone to give the megatonne of shit that must be given, for it to actually happen;

02:34:42 asciilifeform: and when it happens, it is normally for commercial reasons and in secret

02:34:52 asciilifeform: rather then 'bower to the beoble'

02:35:33 gernika: asciilifeform aha. so that's why comander keen doesn't even work.

02:35:37 asciilifeform: aha.

02:36:00 *: asciilifeform fond of commander keen.

02:36:32 asciilifeform: recall his brief cameo appearance in wolfenstein ?

02:37:21 gernika: I do not.

02:37:25 asciilifeform: or hm, was it in doom ii

02:37:31 asciilifeform: ^ apparently

02:37:42 asciilifeform: http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Commander_Keen

02:37:43 assbot: Commander Keen - The Doom Wiki at DoomWiki.org - Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, and more ... ( http://bit.ly/1KATjwL )

02:37:45 *: phf spent more time with duke nukem

02:37:52 gernika: Tried derive.exe on freedos too - doesn't work either.

02:37:53 asciilifeform: ^ also good timez.

02:38:02 asciilifeform: gernika: now ~that~ is odd

02:38:07 asciilifeform: it runs fucking everywhere

02:38:18 gernika: it starts - but the screen is filled with garbage

02:38:21 gernika: executes commands, etc

02:38:38 asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder if 'freedos' is actually run by wreckers

02:38:55 asciilifeform: a 'bitcoin phoundation' of a kind

02:42:58 asciilifeform: there are some very serious folks who are working on having it be forgotten that a 486 was an entirely usable thing, and in many ways a superior cultural artifact, all things considered, than the computer you and i are sitting in front of today

02:43:16 phf: what isn't. at some point freedos was legit in a poc||gtfo kind of way, i.e. "we did it for the lulz", but now it's positioned as the only legitimate way to run dos programs. that you of course purchased from GoG.

02:43:17 asciilifeform: esp. considering the games.

02:43:43 asciilifeform: ahahahaha

02:43:49 asciilifeform: always there is a one of these, lurking inside

02:44:01 asciilifeform: whenever you scratch the surface of damn near anything.

02:46:42 phf: how else would you ensure that linus is not mean to anybody?

02:50:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.0006838 = 13.1632 BTC [+]

02:51:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257800 << it's updated, what. most recent this month.

02:51:14 assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 23:26:04; ascii_field: would be even cooler if it updated

02:51:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after the thread!

02:53:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257852 << you're telling me like i'm the one shitting in the broadband lol

02:53:54 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:00:40; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dulap ~still~ trailing by 35 blx

02:54:01 asciilifeform: l0l

02:56:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257861 << and it's run by george costanza, "name your daughter soda"

02:56:17 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:05:59; *: asciilifeform once heard allegation that virtually all major product names, esp. in usa, are purchased from one particular firm specializing in names...

02:57:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257882 << it is pretty much what it was "same cleaning, more or less, but not as harsh"

02:57:40 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:20:23; asciilifeform: from sneeze meds that are less meth-worthy to floor cleaners lacking acids

02:58:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: addison whitney

02:58:15 asciilifeform: (re: names firm)

02:58:20 mircea_popescu: sorta like Rembrandt School of Art : since 1950, making paintings almost as good as rembrandts, with less work per sq in

02:59:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, wanna-bes.

03:02:29 mircea_popescu: in local news, argentina GDP fell 4.9% today because one of the lengthy queues accidentally merged with its own ending, resulting in 84`755 people spending an average of 8 hours following a very intricate 12 mile pattern through town for no apparent purpose.

03:04:41 phf: get in queue, figure out what's available later, su style

03:05:59 asciilifeform: ;;later tell gernika http://loper-os.org/pub/derive_and_more.img.gz << floppy image containing PROPER msdos, sys utils (for making more of self), himem, edit, qbasic, buncha other stuff, and Derive.

03:06:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAXR6u )

03:06:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:06:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257900 << specifically, this log http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-08-2015#1254484

03:06:05 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:29:13; asciilifeform: no one is banning linux. instead there is a 'linux foundation' (see log) which will sign 'legit, non-terrorist' kernels for you

03:06:05 assbot: Logged on 28-08-2015 16:50:54; mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/082XAM5.txt

03:06:12 asciilifeform: $ sha512sum derive_and_more.img.gz

03:06:13 asciilifeform: 49e7e9968bdbfee0a96fddbd4f9deb7b8df9911381805710797f2d4e56637c1f4a0efacb4675e7e28020c877fc02b6725a3263ca5f8b5b2ed51cd6aa7908a7b3 derive_and_more.img.gz

03:06:29 mircea_popescu: qbasic lol.

03:06:34 mircea_popescu: so much better than gwbasic

03:06:37 mircea_popescu: why ? the eval!

03:06:39 asciilifeform: aha.

03:06:43 mircea_popescu: dedicated eval window

03:06:51 asciilifeform: fuck yeah.

03:07:12 asciilifeform: ;;later tell gernika it will boot in 'qemu' too.

03:07:13 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:08:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257909 << quite.

03:08:12 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:33:36; asciilifeform: on account of how you can't really write an engaging yarn about inhabitants of the real thing, as we have it

03:08:24 mircea_popescu: reality beats fiction mostly because fiction has to be things reality does not.

03:08:34 mircea_popescu: oh, you're not so very engaged by this reality ? FUCK YOU BITCH LMAO

03:08:42 asciilifeform: such as having conscious peopl ein it, aha

03:08:49 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell fluffypony Is this really the way to seed anything? https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/blob/master/src/crypto/oaes_lib.c#L503

03:08:50 assbot: bitmonero/oaes_lib.c at master · monero-project/bitmonero · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAYcWR )

03:08:50 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:08:55 gernika: asciilifeform - I haven't tried it. Running it on an old thinkpad. Got msdos 6.2 working in parallels - but parallels is literally a virus.

03:09:27 asciilifeform: gernika: it's a straight floppy image with the real thing in it, created strictly with actual msdos running on emulated hardware

03:09:29 gernika: ok not a virus but malware

03:09:34 asciilifeform: boots cleanly on actual dos box, tested.

03:09:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the funniest protests (sexually repressed women generally) bring to my sexual themed writings is "oh, it would never happen like that".

03:10:01 mircea_popescu: "why not ?" "because uhm."

03:10:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naturally. in the mental universe various folks inhabit, nothing mircea_popescuine could even begin to contemplate happening.

03:10:40 mircea_popescu: in fairness most literature is not after life.

03:11:01 mircea_popescu: but it also has very little regard for you know, "the reader has come to expect"

03:11:04 gernika: asciilifeform oh derive.exe? derive.exe works in my parallels 6.2 image.

03:11:43 asciilifeform: at any rate, the fdd image is here for n00bz as well

03:11:51 asciilifeform: i encourage folks here to mirror it, somewhere.

03:12:16 asciilifeform: never know when a WORKING computeralgebratron will come in handy

03:12:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257921 << wait, no meta-fabs ?

03:12:44 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:40:57; asciilifeform: so far, EVERY SINGLE SI FAB ON THE PLANET and ALL THE DESIGN TOOLING (with the exception of chuck moore's...) runs on winblowz

03:12:56 asciilifeform: btw i've always thought it would be interesting to get the lisp src of derive (yes) out of the exe

03:13:10 asciilifeform: it was written in 'mulisp', which is compiled in such a way as to make this theoretically feasible.

03:13:41 asciilifeform: reversing 'derive' is this thing that i come back to for a week or two every other year or so.

03:13:51 gernika: Wonder if the Soft Warehouse guys still live, and if they have it.

03:14:04 asciilifeform: gernika: they sold the rights to texas instruments

03:14:04 mircea_popescu: ^

03:14:06 mircea_popescu: word!

03:14:09 asciilifeform: so in that sense, no

03:14:18 asciilifeform: (doubt they'd release it)

03:14:19 mircea_popescu: aww

03:14:36 asciilifeform: 'texas' made prolly close to a billion, with it

03:14:42 phf: like some game enthusiasts trying to get source from electronic arts, good luck

03:14:44 asciilifeform: (they turned it into a line of calculators that was wildly popular)

03:14:50 gernika: I sadly DID NOT KNOW about this program in junior high and highschool.

03:15:03 asciilifeform: l0l!

03:15:13 asciilifeform: gernika: what would you have done, snuck dos box into exam ?

03:15:30 gernika: I would have checked then even numbered answers

03:15:33 gernika: on my homework

03:19:02 mircea_popescu: so i've been sort-of idly thinking maybe monero is actually something should be taken seriously. then BingoBoingo dug up https://forum.getmonero.org/4/academic-and-technical/303/a-formal-approach-towards-better-hard-fork-management

03:19:03 assbot: Monero | Academic and Technical » A formal approach towards better hard fork management ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAZNvy )

03:19:11 mircea_popescu: check this out :

03:19:20 mircea_popescu: "Basic bottom line: every 6 months there's a hard fork. You get 1 hard fork's grace before you have to update or be left behind.

03:19:20 mircea_popescu: Details

03:19:20 mircea_popescu: Every 6 months, either on March 15 + September 15 or on April 15 + October 15, the Monero network will have a hard fork. 30 days before the fork we will have a code freeze + tag + release, and if there are no major changes we'll have an increase in the protocol version (ie. that's at a minimum). A similar fork system to Bitcoin will apply, whereby a rollover to the new code after the trigger block will only occur if a

03:19:21 mircea_popescu: sufficient number of miners are running the new code.

03:19:23 mircea_popescu: Anything that is more of a soft fork will kick in immediately (as long as it doesn't drop pre-fork clients off the network). Anything on the p2p layer (ie. hard forkable) will be kept in the wings until the next fork date (as roughly estimated from block height) and then is enabled.

03:19:27 mircea_popescu: The upshot of this is that you can run a client that is a year old, but pretty much after that 1 year anniversary you'll be dropped off the network (even if there have been no "real" changes in that year)."

03:19:30 mircea_popescu: and i'm like..... mmmkay nevermind.

03:20:21 asciilifeform: it is 'interesting' in the same sense as denizen of insane asylum who thinks he is a glass bottle is more interesting than the fella who thinks he is ordinary napoleon ?

03:21:45 asciilifeform: can mircea_popescu or anyone else remind me, what was supposed to be the upside of being a glass bott^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing monero ?

03:21:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more in the sense that the blondy teen that is always clenching her jaws shut is vaguely interesting in a way her verbose airheaded cogeners are not

03:22:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257960 << definitely worked for me.

03:22:57 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:28:35; gernika: boots up to C:\. Then they just have to type in the name of the game they want to play and hit enter.

03:23:10 asciilifeform: was it the ring signature thing ?

03:23:19 mircea_popescu: that behaviour is certainly the l;argest contributor of wy i am even vaguely interested in computers at all

03:23:34 mircea_popescu: had i met linux as a boy i'd be pissing with froth on the entire stupid stack.

03:23:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly.

03:24:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have written on many occasions, that this (the froth) is why the very youngest of the folks worth anything in computerdom are circa early 1980s

03:24:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257968 << ever tried captain comic ?

03:24:26 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:36:00; *: asciilifeform fond of commander keen.

03:24:34 asciilifeform: aha!

03:29:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257994 << no, it was not after the thread.

03:29:35 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:51:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after the thread!

03:29:45 mircea_popescu: wehn i linked to it, i linked to an item put there a week or so ago.

03:31:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8502 @ 0.0006859 = 5.8315 BTC [+]

03:32:00 mod6: this press command is pretty neat

03:37:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=417 << incidentally, champagne doesn't live too well in bottle.

03:37:48 assbot: #bitcoin-assets bash ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIntcu )

03:37:53 mircea_popescu: a year is one thing, but five's too many.

03:39:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00068401 = 17.8527 BTC [-] {3}

03:47:28 mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu: giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things."

03:47:35 mircea_popescu: im in fucking love with the fucking bash omg/

03:48:46 phf: the only thing enemy will drink is amontillado

03:50:23 asciilifeform: 'for the love of god, montrezor!!!'

03:50:41 phf: for the love of god

03:50:51 asciilifeform: !s montrezor

03:50:52 assbot: 10 results for 'montrezor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=montrezor

03:51:11 phf: bah, naturally

03:54:51 asciilifeform: http://ww3.ac-poitiers.fr/math/prof/logic/der1/der12009.htm << DERIVE lives in fr !!

03:54:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIpoO9 )

03:57:15 mircea_popescu: so speaking of http://fraudsters.com/2013/recapitulatio/ how long till coinbase is filing for creditor protection ?

03:57:16 assbot: Recapitulatio on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ifv4ta )

03:57:49 asciilifeform: waiwat

03:57:52 asciilifeform: why would they?

03:58:05 mircea_popescu: for the same reason.

03:58:09 asciilifeform: i mean, they are more or less the only mass vendor of coinz in usa

03:58:33 asciilifeform: i just gave them more than kilo personally not long ago

03:59:10 asciilifeform: terrible place to ~sell~, but perfectly workable to buy...

03:59:19 asciilifeform: (while supplies last...)

03:59:36 mircea_popescu: how much did they make on that deal ?

03:59:49 asciilifeform: perhaps 10 usd

04:00:04 asciilifeform: and change.

04:00:12 mircea_popescu: how many alfs are there ? how many do they need, to cover their immense if fictitious debt base ?

04:00:36 mircea_popescu: your 10 bucks buys them less than a second of life.

04:01:01 asciilifeform: 30! two of my neighbours in uranium mine also bought! aha

04:01:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still can't figure out why they are (?) in debt. am i thick or what

04:01:42 asciilifeform: why does it actually cost anything to run 'coinbase'

04:01:55 mircea_popescu: you kidding me they just took even more millions at whatever dilution

04:02:04 asciilifeform: it's a straight 'buy cheap, sell dear, get occasional mountain of looted coinz from usg' deal, no ?

04:02:05 mircea_popescu: why. because it's run by the catamite club of us.

04:02:35 asciilifeform: what is the reason to think that they will ever have to pay it back ?

04:02:56 mircea_popescu: "Alydian Inc., a unit of CoinLab Inc., on Friday filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. bankruptcy court in Seattle. The 10-page court filing didn't disclose why Alydian filed for bankruptcy or how it hopes to repay its debts."

04:02:59 mircea_popescu: why did those ?

04:03:12 asciilifeform: because not lubricated enough of a catamite ?

04:03:33 asciilifeform: did not go to yaletonward with the right folks ?

04:03:34 mircea_popescu: there's a finite count of failing to goal that these things can survive.

04:03:34 asciilifeform: idk

04:03:57 phf: (asciilifeform: by the way if you haven't played http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/darkeye/darkeye.htm. it's not much of a quest, but it has a consistently fantastic mood. Burroughs does voice acting for one of the characters)

04:03:58 assbot: Hardcore Gaming 101: The Dark Eye ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIqv0o )

04:04:14 asciilifeform: 'coinbase' will be kept alive via whatever means, while it does its job (rat our folks who cash out to usd; keep price fire-extinguished a la gold)

04:04:30 asciilifeform: phf: neato

04:05:08 mod6: asciilifeform: qq, I was under the impression that when using press, if I picked something like 'maxint_corrected', it would patch all the way up through that one. but it didn't seem to apply the -verifyall patch? or do I misunderstand how its supposed to work? http://dpaste.com/1J2BS40.txt thoughts?

04:05:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIqDwE )

04:06:01 mod6: OH

04:06:15 mod6: i see, when i check flow, i see that 'verifyall' comes /after/ maxint

04:06:23 asciilifeform: ^^ aha

04:06:25 mod6: which isn't the case chronoligicaly

04:06:33 mod6: but in this case, it is. i get it. sorry.

04:06:34 asciilifeform: but there are no timestamps, remember !

04:06:40 mod6: yup yup

04:07:31 mod6: i was mechanically cross checking the output file checksums against the v054-TEST2 bundle and noticed that i didn't come out with -verifyall in there. was really wondering for a minute lol.

04:08:23 mod6: *chronologically too

04:08:29 asciilifeform: mod6: does it make sense to you how 'flow' works ?

04:08:39 asciilifeform: this is perhaps the only difficult part of the thing

04:10:17 mod6: yeah, i don't grasp that part fully yet. but it does make sense from genesis up through patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch

04:10:33 mod6: i suspect that I'll need to look at the touched files and the hashes to make sense of this.

04:11:18 asciilifeform: roughly, the way it works - must work - is that no patch is applied for which the dependencies have not already been applies.

04:11:21 asciilifeform: *applied

04:11:33 asciilifeform: this is what 'topological sort' means

04:11:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00068299 = 17.0748 BTC [-] {4}

04:12:55 mod6: ok, i think i get it. neither patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch or patches/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option.vpatch have any dependants (d's)

04:12:57 asciilifeform: incidentally, your unixlike box almost certainly has 'tsort' utility

04:13:00 asciilifeform: which does just this.

04:13:02 mod6: but the rest do, so they come last.

04:13:39 mod6: well, the 2 i just mentioned come last. is there any reason on the sort order of the last 2? or i just need to grok toposort more?

04:13:42 asciilifeform: descendants !

04:13:48 asciilifeform: OPPOSITE!

04:14:15 asciilifeform: time for a brief likbez, perhaps. antecedent - earlier patch that must have happened to satisfy a given patch

04:14:18 mod6: <+asciilifeform> descendants ! << mean this, my apologies.

04:14:26 asciilifeform: descendant - later patch, which requires this patch.

04:15:08 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, http://31.media.tumblr.com/2bee425c083912f62e0841981d446c0a/tumblr_ntcvokvrnL1tcjd1io1_400.gif

04:15:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ifwFyZ )

04:15:12 mod6: heheh, my fingers didn't want to type what my brain was trying to say. it's a little baked from the sun today at the fair.

04:15:25 mircea_popescu: perhaps the anatomically nudest orgasm depiction

04:15:43 asciilifeform: waitasec that's a human ?!

04:15:52 mircea_popescu: yes.

04:15:53 mod6: oo a gif

04:16:04 mircea_popescu: purely mechanical functioning human.

04:16:12 asciilifeform: mod6: btw if my terminology is confusing, please do not hesitate to suggest alternate

04:16:29 asciilifeform: in place of, e.g., descendant, antecedent, etc

04:16:40 mod6: no, not at all. it is accurate in my opinion

04:17:07 asciilifeform: other than various fixes / cleanups, the 1 thing i still wanna add to 'v' is file histories

04:17:12 asciilifeform: e.g.,

04:17:32 asciilifeform: ./v.py patches h foo/bitcoin/src/main.cpp

04:17:39 mod6: i know nothing of python... although from reading your code, i'm starting to grasp it.

04:17:41 asciilifeform: and dumps changed, in topo-order, with signators

04:17:44 asciilifeform: *changes

04:20:40 asciilifeform: btw mod6 does the 'o' command make sense?

04:20:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2965 @ 0.00068137 = 2.0203 BTC [-]

04:20:52 asciilifeform: (as in, can you guess, without explanation, why i included it)

04:21:09 mod6: the origin cmd is pretty neat too

04:21:27 asciilifeform: it is mainly because my disk is littered with 1,001 copies of therealbitcoin tree

04:21:32 asciilifeform: from various stages of vivisection

04:21:39 asciilifeform: some corresponding to a released patch set, others not

04:21:55 asciilifeform: and it is helpful to litmus-test these and place where (if anywhere) they belong

04:22:38 asciilifeform: unrelatedly,

04:22:49 asciilifeform: the one other thing i neglected to explain anywhere is how to make the wot

04:23:15 asciilifeform: place pubkeys in the dir (defaults to home dir, subdir .wot) and, importantly,

04:23:37 asciilifeform: nicknames end up being the respective filename-sans-extension.

04:23:43 asciilifeform: as shown in the demo tarball.

04:23:51 asciilifeform: (there is literally no other place 'v' could possibly learn them..)

04:24:25 mod6: sure. i was able to figure that out straight off np. helped by having a few bundled up in v99/wot/

04:24:27 asciilifeform: i think this is literally all.

04:25:00 mod6: but yeah, i just `mkdir -p ~/.seals ~/.wot` and dropped the sigs into ~/.seals and the pub keys in ~/.wot and off it went.

04:25:53 asciilifeform: now all we need is to persuade jurov to set up something like 'rsync' on his box

04:25:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17549 @ 0.00068108 = 11.9523 BTC [-] {3}

04:25:59 mod6: i saw punkman say something about dropping in a python-gnupg side-by-side with V -- i've gotta try that yet. might be cool for an airgap box or something.

04:26:10 asciilifeform: mod6: wai wat

04:26:14 asciilifeform: mod6: 'v' doesn't do crypto

04:26:21 asciilifeform: doesn't need an airgap

04:26:24 BingoBoingo: comment spam lol, "own datacenter" uses aws http://dpaste.com/0F4ATGC

04:26:25 assbot: dpaste: 0F4ATGC ... ( http://bit.ly/1JItkyj )

04:26:25 mod6: no no.

04:26:27 asciilifeform: (you can't sign with it)

04:26:46 mod6: i know.

04:27:04 mod6: i guess i don't mean to confuse.. was just thinking about it in the capacity where a stripped down box is being used.

04:27:09 asciilifeform: oh and if it isn't clear, python-gnupg just shell-callouts to ordinary gpg.

04:27:27 mod6: oh it's just a wrapper?

04:27:31 asciilifeform: aha

04:27:39 asciilifeform: no gpg-compatible anything of any other kind exists anywhere.

04:27:46 asciilifeform: (see thread)

04:28:33 mod6: anyway, thanks for putting all this together!

04:28:43 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2015#1250164 << thread

04:28:43 assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.

04:28:45 mod6: and for taking the time to explain some of it to me.

04:28:47 asciilifeform: mod6: yw

04:29:17 asciilifeform: my hope is that it means hanbot can go back to writing fiction

04:29:35 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2015#1250164 << thread << thx. ya, i recall this. long road ahead haha.

04:29:35 assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.

04:29:36 asciilifeform: rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil

04:30:28 asciilifeform: 'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck

04:30:48 asciilifeform: which was really not the case before, despite well-intentioned efforts of the people here at making automatic build scripts, etc

04:31:18 phf: i spent some time going through exercise of getting rid of main in gnupg 1.*, compiling it into a dynamic library, loading into a lisp and calling c functions through ffi. it's doable, but yeah environment very hostile to librarification: often times reporting is done only as a printf, with no status codes, so impossible to do simple (= (ffi-call...) 0) without unpacking the c level function

04:31:20 mod6: fair assesment there. but, i think it's great, and clean, and "works". responsibility is on the signer to read what they sign. same in life.

04:31:52 asciilifeform: phf: ffi with c crud is a nightmare always and everywhere

04:32:07 asciilifeform: none of it has any notion of intelligent error handling, or restarts, or, or...

04:33:30 *: asciilifeform bbl

04:33:33 phf: sure, but i did some large scale projects using ffi (including things like modifying arrays on heap from inside c libraries), so i don't think it's necessarily dead end. just that gnupg doesn't make it easy at all and requires basically full environment scaffolding before you can do anything useful

04:33:36 mod6: <+asciilifeform> rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil << imagine how much easier it is now for a person to literally pick a place in the flow and patch directly to it. instead of wading through mutliated corpses trying to find the least smelly ones.

04:35:01 phf: which wouldn't be a problem in a traditional c code, but in case of gnupg half of the code seems to have hidden, side channel concerns, that i just don't have yet enough experience in practical crypto to grok

04:36:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00068045 = 15.7184 BTC [-] {3}

04:41:13 phf: for example this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/154625 validates signatures (using ccl's ffi generator and slightly patched gnupg 1.4.19), but on failure verify_signature either prints to stdout, with no notable return code or sometimes exit(...)'s the whole process

04:41:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIvo9D )

04:44:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51950 @ 0.00067731 = 35.1863 BTC [-] {5}

04:45:34 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-September/000162.html

04:45:36 assbot: [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIvXjD )

04:48:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105413 @ 0.00067078 = 70.7089 BTC [-] {8}

04:49:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16122 @ 0.00066132 = 10.6618 BTC [-]

04:51:21 BingoBoingo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/010798.html

04:51:22 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIwQce )

04:53:31 BingoBoingo: spam started

04:53:33 BingoBoingo: https://btc.blockr.io/address/info/1111111111111111111114oLvT2

04:53:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JItgTJ )

05:00:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.0006852 = 10.7919 BTC [+] {3}

05:04:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9567 @ 0.00066618 = 6.3733 BTC [-]

05:05:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20083 @ 0.00066627 = 13.3807 BTC [+] {2}

05:11:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00067449 = 8.9033 BTC [+]

05:23:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22364 @ 0.00067449 = 15.0843 BTC [+]

05:24:19 BingoBoingo: !up laurita

05:24:23 BingoBoingo: !up donpillou

05:29:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30965 @ 0.00068325 = 21.1568 BTC [+] {5}

05:32:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13654 @ 0.00066439 = 9.0716 BTC [-] {4}

05:43:46 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

05:43:50 gribble: Current Blocks: 372468 | Current Difficulty: 5.425663032788996E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 372959 | Next Difficulty In: 491 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

06:09:11 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck << blind trust is only a problem to the blind trustor.

06:11:23 mircea_popescu: !up laurita

06:13:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, the "blocking ports" bs has been going on for nigh on 20 years now.

06:13:32 BingoBoingo: Sure

06:13:48 mircea_popescu: incidentally, the "bitcoin uses port 8333" thing is retarded.

06:13:56 mircea_popescu: bitcoin should use any arbitrary port, including 80

06:14:16 mircea_popescu: this notion where we respect ~anything~ has got to go.

06:14:27 mircea_popescu: BODB.

06:14:29 mircea_popescu: bitcoin over dead bodies.

06:24:35 BingoBoingo: prolly skip port 25 though, MSExChange servers pissing spam everywhere prolly ruined that one

06:50:14 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu Also it looks like Kim kinda went Monero... https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/31/3a08dc9a038e0c30bb568b48d0f758cd.jpg

06:50:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MZlSnW )

06:50:16 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:54:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3838 @ 0.00056039 = 2.1508 BTC [-]

07:05:27 mircea_popescu: dude she's a tank

07:07:21 BingoBoingo: Inflation is a bitch

07:08:06 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: you'd have to complain to the author of the OpenAES library :)

07:08:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00056671 = 12.2976 BTC [+] {2}

07:08:38 BingoBoingo: So much #ifdef, seeding with time and process id

07:08:54 fluffypony: that's an oaes thing

07:09:08 fluffypony: I just fixed it to use gettimeofday instead of ftime on BSD

07:11:43 *: mircea_popescu wouldn't feel safe fucking kim w/o a coupla wrestler wingmen ready to tag.

07:12:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Time machine could also work

07:14:05 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Seriously though all the ifdefs scattered everywhere

07:15:33 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: well it's either that or we have to refactor every exception into functions_windows.cpp / functions_bsd.cpp / functions_linux.cpp etc., which would make the code splintered and extremely hard to work with

07:22:42 BingoBoingo: The way everything is organized now is also very hard to work with. cmake scattered all over every directory

07:25:13 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's a CMake best practices thing, the guy that did that (Ben Boeckel) is one of the CMake developers

07:25:47 BingoBoingo: But is cmake itself a good thing?

07:25:59 fluffypony: yes very much

07:26:02 fluffypony: autoconf is horrible

07:26:14 BingoBoingo: what about just... make

07:26:27 fluffypony: too many disparate environments for that

07:27:42 BingoBoingo: Even qt.pro as implemented in bitcoin, for people who still use it that way, seems more organized

07:29:07 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257612 <<< almost clicked off while waiting but figured alf would not link such a thing without providing the goods.. did not disappoint

07:29:07 assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 20:55:11; ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/ibUaHil.gifv << sapping practice.

07:34:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00055048 = 8.7526 BTC [-]

07:46:47 mircea_popescu: o.O

07:50:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100000 @ 0.00063841 = 63.841 BTC [+] {9}

08:03:35 BingoBoingo: In the world of license mess http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/the-peculiar-libretunnel-situation

08:03:42 assbot: the peculiar libretunnel situation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5Anqr )

08:18:01 punkman: BingoBoingo: I dunno why anyone humors the license derps

08:18:28 BingoBoingo: Neither do I, but they are so easy to troll

08:18:43 shinohai: ;;later tell trinque despite me being the most "Special Ed" of anyone here, persistence paid off: http://i.imgur.com/3xAoZTN.png?1

08:18:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NUuCfK )

08:18:44 gribble: The operation succeeded.

08:19:39 btcdrak: No surprises here then, common VCs backing BIP101 http://qntra.net/2015/08/bip-101-syndicate-shares-fiat-ties-opposition-to-actual-bitcoin/

08:19:40 assbot: BIP-101 Syndicate Shares Fiat Ties, Opposition to Actual Bitcoin | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1NUuFbw )

08:20:53 BingoBoingo: None at all.

08:22:42 shinohai: Because as we say in the South, "Backdoor guests are best".

08:22:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00063391 = 11.4104 BTC [-]

08:22:51 shinohai: not really

08:24:01 mircea_popescu: punkman well some people still persist in this vc fairytale/pipedream

08:24:27 mircea_popescu: they'll sell their worthless startup for billions and so forth, if only they respect licenses and never say bad things about fat people or something

08:24:42 BingoBoingo: !b 2

08:24:43 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3VTC7N2.txt )

08:26:17 shinohai: Nice article BingoBoingo All you need to do now is drop it off in r/darknetmarkets and a few .onion forums, there goes your BIP101 support

08:26:59 cazalla: deedbot- http://qntra.net/0815.txt

08:27:20 mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.

08:27:27 mircea_popescu: what next, cisco still sells routers ?

08:27:30 deedbot-: accepted: 1

08:27:30 deedbot-: [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://qntra.net/2015/09/qntra-s-qntr-august-2015-statement/

08:27:31 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Why would I ever participate in discussions there. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/

08:27:39 assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog

08:28:05 shinohai: Read that one.

08:28:31 shinohai: Jees, how hard are you being watched?

08:29:09 BingoBoingo: Well, If I know the FBI/Treasury/WTFObolaBBQ is watching why would I even create an opportunity to be framed as a person looking to participate in drug commerce?

08:30:25 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://31.media.tumblr.com/1aa153796752dbb8d067f547d5944174/tumblr_mzxmu4NJkS1qaoeoqo6_r2_400.gif

08:36:58 shinohai: morning exercise.

08:39:23 mircea_popescu: chick's great, and check out how deeply she bothers the two other insecure ones.

08:45:53 mircea_popescu: jurov : qntra shares added.

09:01:01 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-august-2015-statement/

09:10:16 jurov: "SERENISSIMAFAT12" kek

09:11:20 jurov: asciilifeform: your server serves it as "Content-Type text/plain"

09:16:14 mircea_popescu: whassat ?

09:29:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00067086 = 9.8616 BTC [+]

09:30:05 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/AYCbrqP.jpg <<<tequila

09:30:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hQoAB6 )

09:33:17 cazalla: shame about those eyebrows but still

09:49:19 shinohai: http://www.wdrb.com/story/29927097/supreme-court-rejects-ky-gay-marriage-case-forcing-rowan-co-clerk-to-issue-licenses

09:49:20 assbot: Supreme Court rejects Ky. gay marriage case, forcing Rowan Co. c - WDRB 41 Louisville News ... ( http://bit.ly/1hQrRjC )

09:49:39 shinohai: ^ How about just do your goddamned job, and quit if you love Jesus more?

09:49:54 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258271 <<< is this from just make skinny chicks fat, fat chicks skinny blog?

09:49:54 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 06:50:14; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu Also it looks like Kim kinda went Monero... https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/31/3a08dc9a038e0c30bb568b48d0f758cd.jpg

09:50:13 punkman: looks pregnant

09:50:15 BingoBoingo: cazalla: No, MTV awards

09:51:37 cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?

09:51:50 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/q7m31TM.jpg

09:51:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hQscTu )

09:52:03 punkman: cazalla: probably

09:52:13 cazalla: might be time to make a kanye leaves kim bitbet

09:52:13 adlai: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/15BJ4H4.txt

09:52:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hQsdXv )

09:52:15 deedbot-: accepted: 1

09:52:22 adlai: cazalla: ty for the poem

09:52:37 *: adlai reminds: web != network

09:52:38 cazalla: adlai, ah don't thank me, i was drunk

09:53:52 cazalla: kim looks fat moreso than pregnant, at least at that angle

09:56:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6657 @ 0.00065401 = 4.3537 BTC [-]

10:03:22 jurov: !rated adlai

10:03:23 assbot: You have not rated adlai.

10:03:48 jurov: !rate adlai 2 scalpl rocks!

10:03:48 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/35faf40adbf51a54

10:04:44 jurov: !v assbot:jurov.rate.adlai.2:cb5011365bf06199a6d2cceaba400a8cd7d09136245e39a056356edb7184477f

10:04:44 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for adlai with note: scalpl rocks!

10:18:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00066805 = 8.9185 BTC [+]

10:30:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00065401 = 12.23 BTC [-]

10:48:44 shinohai: http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/yemen-child-marriage-human-rights-519066

10:48:45 assbot: 8-year-old Yemeni child dies at hands of 40-year-old husband on wedding night | Al Bawaba ... ( http://bit.ly/1MZHDnE )

10:59:10 davout: pretty disgusting...

11:03:38 shinohai: I'm not certain someone like that can be truly described as "human".

11:07:45 shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.

11:11:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39784 @ 0.00065881 = 26.2101 BTC [+] {4}

11:26:12 shinohai: Any bibliophiles here that would care to make a recommendation for my Winter reading list?

11:31:56 punkman: I put "The Three-Body Problem" on my list recently, seems like it got a Hugo award in the meantime

11:37:23 shinohai: punkman: This I assume? http://www.amazon.com/The-Three-Body-Problem-Cixin-Liu/dp/0765377063

11:37:25 assbot: Amazon.com: The Three-Body Problem (9780765377067): Cixin Liu, Ken Liu: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0f9G1 )

11:37:36 punkman: ye

11:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00065658 = 7.4522 BTC [-]

11:49:51 shinohai: Haven't read any sci-fi in a while. That will be good.

11:59:40 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNzubpQWwAA7gSX.png

11:59:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0jUPP )

12:00:33 shinohai: lol?

12:03:07 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255261 << https://twitter.com/Adil0809/status/638349260610605056

12:03:07 assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 12:16:01; mats: http://www.gliderzz.com I have been seeing these around a lot lately

12:06:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065927 = 41.1384 BTC [+]

12:10:42 punkman: http://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_are_switching_written_numbers_when_scanning

12:10:43 assbot: Xerox scanners/photocopiers randomly alter numbers in scanned documents · D. Kriesel ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0m6H4 )

12:25:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00065927 = 1.0219 BTC [+]

12:34:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10129 @ 0.0006567 = 6.6517 BTC [-] {2}

12:57:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00065752 = 14.7942 BTC [+]

13:25:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00065697 = 16.4899 BTC [-]

13:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00065184 = 12.8087 BTC [-] {4}

13:57:11 punkman: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/31/petraeus-use-al-qaeda-fighters-to-beat-isis.html

13:57:12 assbot: Petraeus: Use Al Qaeda Fighters to Beat ISIS - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1KD2dtP )

14:03:29 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu dulap: 'reboot system boot 2.6.32-431.el6.x Tue Sep 1 03:05 - 10:05 (07:00)' << phuctor is dead in the water until this stops.

14:03:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:06:13 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-production-of-evil.html << lulzy

14:06:15 assbot: ClubOrlov: The Production of Evil ... ( http://bit.ly/1KD4Prw )

14:06:23 asciilifeform: 'The most important thing in such a creation is that it must be horrible. It must be self-evidently horrible. So horrible that everyone?even the idiots?could understand that this?this thing covered in blood, holding a torn-off human leg in its hand?is the only alternative to having the United States of America in complete control of everything. That burning people alive, mass executions, beheadings, sanctioned rapes?

14:06:23 asciilifeform: this is the only alternative to gay marriage, feminism, total surveillance of everyone and extraterritorial American ?justice.?'

14:06:36 asciilifeform: 'The western establishment is nurturing ISIS like an attack dog, feeding it, training it to like human blood, in order to then release it and offer people the freedom of choice: you can die in its teeth, or you can hide behind a gate, the keys to which are in the hands of global capitalism. And they will charge you for the entry?but not in money. That is, not just in money. The payment they require is your freedom?your rig

14:06:36 asciilifeform: ht to choose for yourself what is good and what is evil. Anyone who wants to enter has to relinquish this right, and give it to the owner. Because anyone who enters through the gate automatically acquires an owner.'

14:21:10 thestringpuller: wow my article really pissed off reddit: http://coinbrief.net/realcoin-bad-idea/

14:24:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258318 << bitcoin is keeping it alive, far past expiration date

14:24:01 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 08:27:20; mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.

14:24:08 asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-06-2015#1180045

14:24:08 assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:49:55; asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat

14:24:44 asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.

14:25:31 asciilifeform: the best that could be achieved is 'ada ecc lib that provably does what the openssl routines claimed to do'

14:25:45 asciilifeform: but this is pointedly not equivalent to 'do precisely what openssl did, bug for bug.'

14:26:45 asciilifeform: the bug-for-bug compatibility thing ensures that nsa will follow bitcoin (yes, therealbitcoin) around, like an inoperable cancer

14:26:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00064586 = 9.0097 BTC [-]

14:27:55 *: asciilifeform bbl.

14:37:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56243 @ 0.00064791 = 36.4404 BTC [+] {4}

14:47:35 thestringpuller: http://www.coindesk.com/datt-decentralized-reddit-bitcoin/ << Ryan X. Charles returns with more lulz. How to make reddit better?!? Make it decentralized!!!111

14:48:27 punkman: what could possibly be the target for bug-to-bug compatibility?

14:50:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00065689 = 2.1349 BTC [+] {3}

14:54:15 punkman: we maybe could have bug-to-bug compatibility between bitcoinds built with rotor, but otherwise when did bitcoind have bug-to-bug compatibility across versions of itself, openssl, bdb, etc

14:54:57 shinohai: https://www.humankode.com/security/how-a-bug-in-visual-studio-2015-exposed-my-source-code-on-github-and-cost-me-6500-in-a-few-hours <<< Moar Windowze plox

14:55:01 assbot: How a bug in Visual Studio 2015 exposed my source code on GitHub and cost me $6,500 in a few hours ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIaQls )

15:02:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65000 @ 0.0006554 = 42.601 BTC [-] {2}

15:22:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78804 @ 0.00064088 = 50.5039 BTC [-] {6}

15:23:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190816 @ 0.00061551 = 117.4492 BTC [-] {8}

15:27:10 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell jurov any updates on coinbr ?

15:27:11 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:27:31 punkman: pete_dushenski: it was working earlier when I looked, I think

15:28:45 pete_dushenski: Hmm I'm still seeing "Status : Internal error" on the mpex receipts

15:29:23 mats: it falls

15:30:07 pete_dushenski: like what is this, 'rule 48' day ?

15:30:31 pete_dushenski: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/24/rule-48-the-arcane-nyse-rule-to-tame-a-wild-market.html

15:30:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hv2l2S )

15:35:15 trinque: aw what happened to that "RALLY!" I heard so much about only days ago?

15:35:57 mod6: circut breaker used 1,200 times: MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

15:36:58 mats: rice and beans for dinner

15:37:44 trinque: mod6: surely this is just a temporary correction or whatever the fuck the propaganda term is now

15:38:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00055185 = 5.8772 BTC [-]

15:41:48 trinque: shinohai: grats on gentoo quest

15:42:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.0005552 = 15.268 BTC [+]

15:42:38 pete_dushenski: trinque 'technical recession'

15:43:02 pete_dushenski: not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas

15:45:31 trinque: lol, now technical means "not really a (but yes really a)"

15:45:36 trinque: english... will it blend?

15:46:12 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-09-2015#1257911 << strikes me how well mass-surveillance fits with American narcissism. Look ma, I'm on reality TV!

15:46:12 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:34:42; asciilifeform: in real world, 'telescreen' is not in every room but in every toilet stall, and people not only do not hide from it but pose for it, and complain about not enough resolution on the ccd.

15:51:39 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?

15:52:38 trinque: maybe so people would be discouraged from automating its use

16:00:06 mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production

16:00:18 mats: just like bitcoin, huh

16:03:44 ben_vulpes: i'm asking specifically about the conspiracy, mats.

16:05:09 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform has referred to rms doing this with i believe a compiler as well, and i would hear the story. 'cawsmic rayz and shitgnome bitrot' isn't the kind of story to scare children into losing sleep over.

16:05:28 trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic

16:05:48 trinque: and therefore a barrier to say ripping off components and making non-free versions

16:07:42 ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?

16:07:54 ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?

16:08:01 ben_vulpes: mein gott.

16:12:53 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] American “social mobility” is really just luck, says data. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/09/01/american-social-mobility-is-really-just-luck-says-data/

16:19:49 trinque: ben_vulpes: also a barrier to poetterings, maybe

16:19:59 trinque: coming in and fixing it

16:22:45 phf: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform has referred to rms doing this with i believe a compiler as well, and i would hear the story << https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/

16:22:47 assbot: Extracting the abstract syntax tree from GCC [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu1Epo )

16:25:46 trinque: "better not make it too good, or people will want to use it"

16:25:56 phf: ccl for example uses a hacked up version of this ffi generator http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/lth/ffigen/, which is in turn a set of intrusive patches against gcc. can be done, but wouldn't go into upstream for political reasons

16:25:57 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu26nF )

16:25:58 trinque: strikes me as exactly the idiocy of "free software"

16:27:01 trinque: and also, utterly ironic to be worrying about how "free software" might be used

16:37:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

16:37:39 ascii_field: 'They then use these keys to spawn large numbers of EC2 instances to mine for bitcoins.' << exercise for the reader: calculate how much, e.g., litecoin, could have been mined by the attacker.

16:38:06 ascii_field: (answer: enough for one bus fare in new york)

16:38:50 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258445 << i do not know. but partly for the same reason as gcc, likely.

16:38:50 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:51:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?

16:39:32 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258453 << obfuscation is not quite it. 'librarifiability' needs a kind of deliberate design discipline, which one may choose to follow - or not

16:39:32 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:42; ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?

16:39:53 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258451 << NO. not to understanding. to separatability.

16:39:53 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:05:28; trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic

16:40:13 ascii_field: think of your internal organs. what if they were as easy to steal, cleanly and quietly, as a bicycle ?

16:40:53 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258454 << the only reason why we still have something like open source softs to kick around is that rms did this.

16:40:53 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?

16:41:05 trinque: I said that too.

16:41:13 trinque: but I do also see a benefit in barriers to poetterings

16:41:27 trinque: large and complex doesn't necessarily mean incoherent, just not friendly to noobs

16:41:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00054648 = 15.0282 BTC [-] {2}

16:42:18 ascii_field: specifically, and by design, unfriendly to ~slicers~

16:42:32 ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em

16:42:34 trinque: yep, that makes perfect sense

16:43:06 phf: re gnupg, that was actually in faq for a while, but they shortened the whole answer to "not a chance"

16:43:28 phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?

16:43:28 phf: This has been frequently requested. However, the current viewpoint of the GnuPG maintainers is that this would lead to several security issues and will therefore not be implemented in the foreseeable future. However, for some areas of application gpgme could do the trick.”

16:44:05 ascii_field: also it is a mistake to suppose that this practice is merely for protecting against plagiarism

16:44:14 ascii_field: it is really a weapon against 'embrace & extinguish'

16:44:17 ascii_field: the only weapon.

16:45:41 ascii_field: or at least, the only one with some track record of success.

16:45:48 phf: https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#keep_dreaming 8.21 I’m a programmer and I need a way to call GnuPG internals directly. Is there a library for this? No, nor will there be.

16:45:50 assbot: GnuPG Frequently Asked Questions ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu4cnw )

16:46:04 phf: i like the href name

16:50:22 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258486 << looks very much, again, like the gcc thing

16:50:22 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:43:28; phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?

16:52:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10083 @ 0.00054477 = 5.4929 BTC [-]

16:52:13 ascii_field: yes, i would ~like~ a gcc library; (and a gpg library.) but i understand the authors' logic re: how this could easily and catastrophically help the enemy

16:55:39 ben_vulpes: for argument, how is this 'slicing' different from what we're doing with bitcoin?

16:57:10 ascii_field: what we are attempting is rather like buying, cleaning, repairing old car; they - pulling off the wheels off someone else's parked machine, as in india

16:57:22 *: btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.

17:05:23 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258386 << Glorious! what became of this ?!

17:05:23 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 12:10:42; punkman: http://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_are_switching_written_numbers_when_scanning

17:06:06 ascii_field: ^ from my reading, this had a very real chance of destroying the non-pgp contract as even a theatrical production

17:06:08 punkman: ascii_field: I remember reading about it in 2013, stumbled upon it today. nothing inbetween

17:06:30 ascii_field: that suggests it was successfully hushed up.

17:08:52 punkman: "A reader tells me there is a small notice in his copier's admin panel about character substitution. On his device, the “bug” can be avoided by setting compression from “normal” to higher. As a consequence, the issue must have been known by Xerox – so why was nobody telling us?"

17:10:09 punkman: "Rick Dastin, Vice President at Xerox, is the first one actually working at Xerox being able to tell me that character substitutions actually can occur and Xerox knows (in contrast to their support). They also tell me that this is wanted."

17:10:13 punkman: yep it's a feature

17:10:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:10:21 ascii_field: ... and then the whole thing Unhappened.

17:12:09 punkman: "More and more known enterprises reach out ot me these days, asking theirselves if they have a huge problem with their scanned documents. Others are already certain thay actually have a huge problem, some of them in security critical contexts. All have in common that they understandably are afraid of publicity."

17:15:30 punkman: from the comments: "Have there been any lawsuits by companies against Xerox for damages caused by Xerox machines substituting characters in various financial reports or other types of reports. I'm having difficulty getting people to believe your report. "

17:15:38 ascii_field: the xerox thing is brain-meltingly hilarious

17:15:41 punkman: "I work for Xerox and I had to hear this from outside sources like this one. "

17:16:07 ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug

17:16:16 punkman: heh

17:16:21 ascii_field: (meta-moscow, naturally)

17:23:36 mircea_popescu: ascii_field eh ffs.

17:27:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40004 @ 0.00054659 = 21.8658 BTC [+]

17:28:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, sent note pointing out that if it happens again that's it for that box. i'm not so convinced it'll do anything. consequently... prep to move it, i guess. got any suggestions of location ?

17:28:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31717 @ 0.00054499 = 17.2854 BTC [-] {4}

17:29:02 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i am ready to move it. but can't think of, yet, a good place to move it ~to~

17:29:19 ascii_field: that wouldn't be ruinously expensive, poorly jurisdictioned, or both.

17:29:20 mircea_popescu: me either.

17:29:25 BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas << Testnet Americans

17:29:28 mircea_popescu: what's your idea of ruinous ?

17:29:55 ascii_field: more than a coin a mo. or close.

17:29:58 ascii_field: imho

17:30:29 mircea_popescu: not the end of the world.

17:30:32 ascii_field: but this is really for mircea_popescu to decide, given as he supplied this item as 'pro bono'

17:30:52 mircea_popescu: yeah i dun see a problem paying 1-1.5 for this. provided the box is decent and the dc unretarded, i'd take it.

17:31:52 ascii_field: i would dare to suggest that the subcontract should include a stipulation that >1 unsanctioned reset per year == termination

17:32:35 mircea_popescu: i prefer the more broad "unretarded"

17:33:15 ascii_field: diametric informed me that his bisp box has not experienced resets...

17:33:31 mircea_popescu: they're right next to each other, amusingly enough.

17:33:47 ascii_field: i think this clinches it

17:34:07 ascii_field: little goblins hang around specifically dulap

17:34:42 *: mircea_popescu inquires with online webexperts

17:34:56 mircea_popescu: online webexperts assure me that this is a coincidence and also was published before by a scientist somewhere.

17:35:00 BingoBoingo: Dulap probably needs a datacenter with dogs on the floow

17:35:01 ascii_field: l0lz

17:35:20 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think you should apologize before making fool of self kthx.

17:35:21 BingoBoingo: *floor

17:35:21 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i'd settle for a welded 1u with internal 12v battery

17:35:34 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: clearly, aha

17:35:48 mircea_popescu: ascii_field how long's your lease where you're now ?

17:36:06 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: my earthly carcass ?

17:36:11 mircea_popescu: yes

17:36:19 ascii_field: ~10 mo

17:36:22 mircea_popescu: o.O

17:36:28 mircea_popescu: wtf's wrong with you.

17:36:41 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: traditional lease in this part of the world, for human habitation, is 1y

17:36:46 mircea_popescu: nuts.

17:36:53 ascii_field: state of maryland requires vendor to offer 2y

17:36:54 mircea_popescu: i won't even discuss it for less than 3 years.

17:37:14 ascii_field: business leases are typically 3-5

17:37:20 mircea_popescu: anyway, you still got that spiffy ups ?

17:37:27 ascii_field: aha

17:37:46 mircea_popescu: how about you pick out a system, i buy it, and then you run nsa from home.

17:37:57 ascii_field: no static ip

17:37:59 ascii_field: and can't get.

17:38:07 mircea_popescu: it'll be cheaper than paying a coin a month for 10 months i'm sure, and we also get the added advantage that we put all the eggs in your basket

17:38:15 mircea_popescu: heh so get a vps bridge

17:38:44 jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.

17:39:11 jurov: ANN: all funds are there, it just got nonsensical answers from mpex

17:39:15 punkman: TARFUN

17:39:22 mircea_popescu: well i never!

17:40:35 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did think about this, earlier; principal obstacle is the provision of adequate cooling in my sorry hovel. but in the absence of a better idea, will have to resort to this

17:41:20 punkman: http://www.datacentermap.com/dr-congo/kinshasa/gbsdc1.html

17:41:21 assbot: GBSDC1 - Data Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu9m2I )

17:41:51 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:41:53 ascii_field: punkman: l0l!

17:41:59 ascii_field: punkman: yours ?

17:42:05 trinque: alright, when do we buy a cruise ship?

17:42:11 trinque: the scientologists have this figured out

17:42:35 ascii_field: dirigible.

17:42:42 punkman: unfortunately, I don't yet own a datacenter in the Congo

17:42:48 ascii_field: aw.

17:44:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189059 @ 0.00061087 = 115.4905 BTC [+] {15}

17:44:23 mircea_popescu: congo, detroit, what the hell's the difference.

17:44:36 pete_dushenski: jurov thanks for the update :)

17:44:37 ascii_field: big difference

17:44:42 ascii_field: usg won't diddle in the congo

17:45:00 pete_dushenski: http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2015/09/01/102963213-google.530x298.jpg?v=1441123832 << new usgoogle logo

17:45:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu9EH0 )

17:45:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34250 @ 0.00066404 = 22.7434 BTC [+] {2}

17:45:33 mircea_popescu: orly ?

17:45:43 mircea_popescu: how exactly is congo a sovereign again ?

17:45:53 ascii_field: it isn't. just a sheepskin not worth the tanning

17:45:55 ascii_field: typically

17:45:59 mircea_popescu: ...

17:46:12 mircea_popescu: you've never been to africa have you.

17:46:25 ascii_field: must confess that i have not.

17:46:34 ascii_field: not itching to, either

17:46:44 mircea_popescu: your idea is amply divergent from reality. do you know WHO is itching to go ?

17:46:50 mircea_popescu: and lord it over the well hung locals ?

17:47:00 mircea_popescu: disfigured 50yo "socialites" from florida.

17:47:00 ascii_field: chinese?

17:47:03 ascii_field: hm

17:47:19 trinque: I hear Christian "missionaries" do very well in Africa

17:47:28 mircea_popescu: place's crawling with "whornorary ambassadors" and whatnot

17:50:00 mircea_popescu: ascii_field why aren't you renting on a llc anyway ?

17:50:31 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: residential zone

17:50:45 ascii_field: we have banana republic here, recall.

17:51:06 mircea_popescu: so what if it is a residential zone ?!

17:51:11 ascii_field: laws of the monkeys proclaim, must stand upside-down on head on odd-numbered tuesdays

17:51:26 mircea_popescu: i dun get it.

17:51:36 ascii_field: if found to run business in residential zone, will HAve Pr0blemz

17:51:47 mircea_popescu: you don't run any business.

17:52:00 mircea_popescu: your company rents a place from some other company to crimp the ceo (ie, you)

17:52:04 mircea_popescu: perfectly legal.

17:52:18 ascii_field: then have problem with isp:

17:52:23 ascii_field: must buy 'business line'

17:52:26 ascii_field: 4x cost.

17:52:36 mircea_popescu: actually a honest signal to all the twerps involved not to mess around.

17:52:38 ascii_field: long list of this idiocy

17:52:45 ascii_field: and it all costs, costs.

17:52:46 mircea_popescu: ascii_field 4x 40 bucks ? so ? why do you care ? tax deductible.

17:52:50 ascii_field: 100+

17:52:56 ascii_field: brb, eating food

17:52:58 trinque: yeah dude, gotta run everything through an llc

17:53:03 trinque: haven't you seen Arrested Development?

17:53:10 mircea_popescu: what's that ?

17:53:25 trinque: ok comedy series on bezzleland's mcmansion industry

17:53:30 mircea_popescu: ah

17:54:32 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're a smart kid, do the math. or better yet, have the girl do the math.

17:54:51 mircea_popescu: i'm not about to go all crazy here and suggest you actually hire an expert, you've not been buying bitcoin for long enough yet.

17:55:35 mircea_popescu: yes you pay more for utilities, but not THAT much more and in general actually less than what the tax would have cost you, and you get to deduce the rent too, and it never really ends.

17:56:08 mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.

17:56:49 mircea_popescu: don't credit newspapers just because they're newspapers when you know in your own field what a shitfest they are ; don't expect the laws etc are anythig but badly written, poorly maintained code full of holes. as reverse-engineerable as anything else.

17:57:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00066628 = 10.8271 BTC [+] {3}

18:06:18 jurov: http://anarchapulco.com/ jesus in attendance, too

18:06:57 mircea_popescu: which one ?

18:07:47 trinque: I am already offended by this site's loading screen

18:07:50 trinque: which is stuck on 0%

18:07:57 trinque: what is this, 90s flash?

18:08:03 mircea_popescu: "IS THE WORLD'S FIRST AND LARGEST"

18:08:12 trinque: lol

18:08:16 mircea_popescu: oddly enough it loads for me.

18:08:19 trinque: now stuck on 99%

18:08:42 trinque: mmyeah I knew what this site was gonna look like.

18:09:16 mircea_popescu: why the fuck is this "casey research ring my scam bell"

18:09:21 mircea_popescu: o wait.

18:09:26 mircea_popescu: ;;google fraudsters DOUG CASEY

18:09:27 gribble: So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. on fraudsters - A blog ...: http://fraudsters.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail/; Doug Casey | Casey Research: https://www.caseyresearch.com/team/staff/doug-casey; Totally Incorrect - Doug Casey's New Book - Casey Research: https://www.caseyresearch.com/ee/legacy/totally-incorrect/?ppref=

18:09:30 mircea_popescu: herp.

18:09:55 mircea_popescu: when are people going to learn that it doesn't wash.

18:11:57 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/9866451ba59203a02e9931a467016546/tumblr_nr6nndTs371u6xnhgo1_500.gif

18:11:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vuc9cb )

18:12:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066766 = 4.3064 BTC [+]

18:20:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258346 << if you conceive it in the butt, you carry it in the butt!

18:20:33 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 09:51:37; cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?

18:20:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00066785 = 28.3836 BTC [+] {2}

18:22:05 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/EDKCLyy.jpg

18:22:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVL5k7 )

18:22:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258371 << or rotten.

18:22:56 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 11:07:45; shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.

18:23:08 mircea_popescu: ""According to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls will become child brides. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before the age of 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15." << note how little the agenda has to do with the purely fabricated news story.

18:23:30 mircea_popescu: convenient enough that there's nobody in english speaking places reading the yemenite newspapers about how "child dies at hands of doctor" or similar nonsense.

18:24:20 mircea_popescu: "oh, doctoring is a privileged activity, if some people die that's just not mentioned ; a functioning society is pointedly not a privileged activity, if anyone dies we'll put it in the newspaper".

18:24:24 mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this even.

18:25:00 mircea_popescu: " Most pro age-limit organizations agree that 18 should be the legal age for marriage." << check it out, voting works NOW.

18:25:13 mircea_popescu: the fact that most of the world agrees girls can marry once they can walk, that doesn't count.

18:25:29 mircea_popescu: but if the whorbassadors i ncongo agree the age should be 18, then hey, DEMOCRACY!!11

18:25:32 mircea_popescu: they had a consensus.

18:31:01 BingoBoingo: lulz https://bitcoinmagazine.com/21809/open-letter-bitcoin-community-developers/

18:31:02 assbot: An Open Letter to the Bitcoin Community from the Developers – Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vue54v )

18:34:34 mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258565 pls no

18:34:34 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:38:44; jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.

18:34:49 BingoBoingo: Corn uppdate http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/midwest-corn-goes-from-soaked-to-choked/article_46179f53-7983-5625-8c51-3a6e1804306b.html

18:34:50 assbot: Midwest corn goes from soaked to choked : Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1VueFz6 )

18:34:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.000665 = 10.0415 BTC [-]

18:37:27 mircea_popescu: dat xerox bug.

18:37:45 *: mircea_popescu is impressed with dkriesel

18:39:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258408 << how about first let the usg spend its resources on ultimately useless mining farm neh

18:39:32 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 14:24:44; asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.

18:39:48 BingoBoingo: http://thesouthern.com/news/local/dozens-rally-in-harrisburg-to-support-confederate-flag/article_dce53cb2-dc9f-565f-9af6-20d1854e629e.html

18:39:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vuf2de )

18:40:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258442 << apparently "standard" means "common" in the nca parlance nao.

18:40:57 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:45:36; trinque: english... will it blend?

18:41:29 mircea_popescu: because it really makes one sleep better at night, to see teh crime fightin' experts couldn't find someone older about 13 or so to write their writings.

18:42:00 trinque: glad to see the PA cousin-fuckers love the rebel flag

18:42:05 trinque: what a shithole of a state.

18:42:51 BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah, Harrisburg Illinois

18:43:09 trinque: ah my mistake

18:43:24 trinque: says Pennsylvania in the tags

18:44:00 BingoBoingo: Probably because of retarded auto-tagging

18:45:04 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:47:17 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258630 << thing is, there ~is~ upfront cost, and from where exactly am i to come up with it ?

18:47:17 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:56:08; mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.

18:47:33 trinque: registering an llc is like 300 bucks

18:47:39 trinque: depending on the state

18:47:43 ascii_field: trinque: every beggar in town has an llc

18:47:47 ascii_field: i'm talking about the rest of it

18:47:53 trinque: right, and they're taking deductions on goddamn everythig

18:47:54 mircea_popescu: what rest ?

18:47:55 ascii_field: the 'businessized' version of everything

18:47:55 trinque: *thing

18:48:10 ascii_field: isp, additional taxations, accounting

18:48:18 ascii_field: lawyers.

18:48:20 mircea_popescu: alfie stop telling yourself stories and read the book of nature instead.

18:50:51 ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?

18:51:32 trinque: gonna die anyway, why not act tactically til then?

18:51:50 ascii_field: trinque: this means what ?

18:52:08 mircea_popescu: ascii_field that was entirely a different story. he was trying to organise his coding income through a llc.

18:52:13 trinque: take every deduction you can, and so on.

18:52:15 mircea_popescu: you are trying to organise your ~expenditure~

18:52:16 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: precisely!

18:52:21 mircea_popescu: not precisely at all.

18:52:27 trinque: your side projects are this llc. not your job

18:52:43 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i did not put my income through it, then it is a plain tax shelter and this lasts precisely five seconds if anyone so much as farts on it

18:52:48 ascii_field: where i live, at my weight class.

18:52:56 trinque: dude nobody says your side business has to be profitable

18:53:00 trinque: there wouldn't be any if that were the case.

18:53:16 mircea_popescu: im telling you, whether you'll like it or not : this conversation is to me indistinguishable from conversation with blondy who has decided "she doesn't have a math head". meanwhile she has exceptionally keen eye for shoes, to a degree most math heads could not keep up.

18:53:19 ascii_field: trinque: understand what an llc without a dime of income or so much as threatening to earn any, looks like ?

18:53:26 mircea_popescu: you're the fucking same thing in a different color scheme already!

18:53:44 mircea_popescu: the same head that yields beautiful code also yields legal arguments, yo!

18:53:47 ascii_field: consider that i actually operate an llc (with partner) since '10, and not speaking entirely from my arse

18:53:58 trinque: sure, you're not the only one.

18:53:58 mircea_popescu: reality isn't like, you pick if to be an archer or a tank like fucking wow.

18:54:05 trinque: who said "not a dime"

18:54:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23410 @ 0.00066979 = 15.6798 BTC [+] {2}

18:54:17 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no but reality means that if i have to spend two weeks appearing in a courtroom, for whatever reason, i starve.

18:54:19 trinque: but if you buy computers, it's an expense. pipe to house? expense.

18:54:21 trinque: etc

18:54:35 mircea_popescu: i'll tell you what it looks like : FUCKING COINBASE.

18:54:41 mircea_popescu: and airbnb and you fucking name it.,

18:54:42 mircea_popescu: bejesus.,

18:54:52 mircea_popescu: WHY do you think they keep doing those, huh ?

18:54:57 ascii_field: coinbase is blessed by his lizard majesty.

18:55:02 ascii_field: ditto airbnob

18:55:05 mircea_popescu: they're exactly your stage +2. "since we gotta have all these llcs anyway, hopw about we derp more"

18:55:16 ascii_field: quod licet jovis...

18:55:26 mircea_popescu: if this isn't proof that people pick their life, nothing is.

18:59:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3140 @ 0.00067286 = 2.1128 BTC [+]

19:00:15 mike_c: mod6, ben_vulpes: does the foundation have any ideological opinions on something like trac?

19:00:49 trinque: would not interface with V for one

19:00:54 ascii_field: ^

19:01:14 mike_c: hm. I was thinking for issue tracking.

19:01:15 mircea_popescu: hes got to use something to make the graphs

19:01:42 ascii_field: trac iirc is a www-based bug ticketing thing ?

19:01:48 trinque: yep

19:01:56 mike_c: yeah. like bugzilla but newer with bells.

19:02:14 mike_c: i don't care a whit for it specifically, more for some kind of issue tracking generally.

19:02:19 mike_c: fraudsters job board only goes so far.

19:02:30 mircea_popescu: not very far at that.

19:02:40 trinque: betcha not a single person did this right either, as with VCS

19:02:43 *: mircea_popescu is still waiting for someone to murder get a freelancer with

19:02:55 mircea_popescu: trinque no, the market is an utter shitmess.

19:03:09 ascii_field: i recall this from conf2 ?

19:03:12 trinque: thing about trac is it's exactly this "cram it all into our project" mentality

19:03:12 mike_c: you know, ascii says 'someone should add file history to V' and I think, yeah, that is much needed and I could bang it out quickly

19:03:16 mircea_popescu: i've been having my eye on this yeah

19:03:26 mike_c: and etc., etc.

19:03:30 trinque: I could see V being applied to this problem too

19:03:34 trinque: where proposals are signed

19:03:46 ascii_field: mike_c: please don't hesitate to experiment with 'v'

19:03:59 mircea_popescu: trinque not sure why you'd need chaining etc

19:04:23 mike_c: I will, but scattered todo lists in various places, feels like it needs a little project management.

19:04:45 phf: there lies the road to hell

19:04:52 trinque: mircea_popescu: maybe not; thought was you patch in new textfiles into some directory structure

19:05:00 trinque: and perhaps my idea extends yours

19:05:02 mike_c: phf: like most things, not if done well

19:05:07 trinque: it's just V-wiki

19:05:39 trinque: and at that, maybe it's a docs folder in the actual bitcoind project

19:05:46 phf: mike_c: "dianetics is not wrong, it's just that you're failing at apply it", aha ;)

19:06:00 mike_c: having a provable and validated package of code is important enough to have something like V. not sure tracking bugs needs to be so rigorous

19:06:02 ascii_field: i dare say this may be an example of the kind of thing one doesn't actually need unless already in a state of dire sin

19:06:20 mike_c: what, managaing a todo list?

19:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62383 @ 0.000665 = 41.4847 BTC [-] {2}

19:06:24 ascii_field: not as such

19:06:28 ascii_field: but systems like 'trac'

19:06:31 trinque: hopefully V becomes an example of how problems ought to be approached around here.

19:06:45 trinque: damned precise approach to a single problem

19:06:48 trinque: trac's way in the other direction

19:07:01 ascii_field: 'v' is for small groups of t3rr0r1stz who all quasi-know each other and share a wot

19:07:20 ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery

19:07:36 ascii_field: in fact, look at the people who ~do~ appear to need it. how much it helps them ?

19:08:00 mike_c: it helps. just because idiots use it doesn't mean it's not helpful.

19:08:14 mike_c: here's the problem - there are ~6 people who may work on V

19:08:21 mircea_popescu: trinque that spirit is right, but it can't become a "vchain technologee in your fridge" thing

19:08:25 mike_c: there are ~10 things that could/should be done

19:08:34 mircea_popescu: ascii_field who says v is for that ?

19:08:35 mats: i am curious to know when 'yi yi zhi yi' progresses to 'yi fa yi yi

19:08:36 mike_c: who keeps track of who claims what?

19:08:42 mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.

19:08:54 mircea_popescu: ie, a mega system deployed by billions of people in a million different nooks and crannies

19:08:58 mircea_popescu: that's what v's for.

19:09:20 mircea_popescu: mike_c claim ? how you mean ?

19:09:36 ascii_field: mats: translation?

19:09:38 mike_c: just like someone claims something on your job board and you put their name on it

19:09:43 mircea_popescu: how about "people who don't know each other aren't working on the same software, no matter what they might think"

19:09:46 mike_c: so 3 out of the 6 people don't run off and do the same thing

19:09:51 mircea_popescu: why not ?

19:09:51 ascii_field: mircea_popescu has it

19:09:56 trinque: might not be a bad thing that they do all duplicate effort

19:09:59 trinque: say 3/4 suck

19:10:03 mircea_popescu: either they know each other so no problem, or they don't and so no problem space.

19:10:19 mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"

19:10:20 mircea_popescu: mike_c understand, there's no promise that V will result in even similar bitcoins.

19:10:34 mircea_popescu: in point of fact all the bitcoin-copy altcoins could just as well have run on v

19:10:36 mircea_popescu: all of them.

19:10:51 mircea_popescu: "use this signset to package ltc ; use this signset to package rippe" etc

19:11:54 mircea_popescu: mike_c my definition of "know each other" is, "they can navigate the who's doing what maze". that's the bar.

19:12:10 ascii_field: ^^

19:12:14 mike_c: and the list of "what needs to be done"?

19:12:21 mircea_popescu: fits in head

19:12:31 mike_c: mhm. recite the todo list for V :D

19:12:39 trinque: or blog it

19:12:40 mircea_popescu: (that list MUST be kept. in one head, or a collection of heads approximable to one head.

19:13:00 trinque: not the list, but say you want to explain why you did something

19:13:00 mircea_popescu: if it is not, you will have rebuilt washington dc. you don't want that. dead 8yo girls from cunt explosion is much better.)

19:13:03 trinque: actually ML, not blog

19:13:12 phf: mike_c: there's a recent openbsd presentation that argues against claiming. their point is that the problem of duplicate effort is a lot rarer then lock grabs. and i must add duplicate effort always results in increased understanding if both solutions are analyzed

19:13:46 mike_c: locks only happen with mediocre and lower workers

19:13:53 mircea_popescu: phf the way "claiming" has to date worked in b-a has been as a gubernatorial function, mostly me encouraging/discouraging people from certain projects.

19:14:02 mike_c: who will not suffer wot penalty for not doing what they claimed

19:14:07 mircea_popescu: moderate success rate on former, low on later, soft sort of thing anyway.

19:14:12 mircea_popescu: and i think it's the only way to go.

19:14:59 mircea_popescu: in any case the concept of "democratic self management" is about as idiotic as it gets. like a one-legged chair.

19:15:05 mike_c: I for instance have worked things to 75% completion before locking to avoid stalling something.

19:15:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9327 @ 0.0006587 = 6.1437 BTC [-] {2}

19:15:37 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:15:38 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:17:32 jurov: just to remind, i had an offer from my wot for colo but must take whole half of cage for ~3 coins/mo

19:17:42 jurov: if bisp is interested

19:17:43 ascii_field: jurov: colo where ?

19:17:51 jurov: here in slovakia

19:18:04 mircea_popescu: mike_c incidentally the reason i won't recite a todo list for v (and deleted alf's proposed list) is specifically because we don't even understand yet fully its implication. bitcoin-like.

19:18:17 phf: !

19:18:20 mats: ascii_field: translates loosely to '[learning] the way of the barbarians to control barbarians'

19:18:33 mircea_popescu: which is how you end up with disputes like the one re scope above ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258788 )

19:18:33 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:08:42; mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.

19:18:48 ascii_field: mats: yi yi [verb] yi ?

19:19:00 jurov: here i would be able to manage the hardware with my own hands

19:19:07 ascii_field: mats: and it always bothered me that the tonality is not attached to the pinyinization

19:19:15 ascii_field: (or is it normally, somehow?)

19:19:16 mircea_popescu: you can do tone ?

19:19:22 mike_c: perhaps I see it too simply. It is the way for me to get source code from people I designate as trusted.

19:19:33 mircea_popescu: mike_c so it is.

19:19:44 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did most of a linguistics degree, can do certain things

19:19:47 mats: it is attached, my keyboard isn't setup: the three accents are associated with three of the four tones in pinyin

19:19:57 ascii_field: neato

19:20:10 mats: 'zhi': govern

19:20:12 *: mircea_popescu sorely regrets his chinese disability.

19:21:09 mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?

19:22:42 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225685 << where, i think, 'v' begins

19:22:42 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:26:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers

19:23:05 phf: mircea_popescu: i've come to appreciate the approach from observing it. one person who shapes the entire thing, and everyone else works with the given directions or else operates fully autonomously. people can still form subgroups for short term goals, but without imposing structure on the rest. etc. etc.

19:23:09 mats: 'yǐ yí zhì yí' is the pinyin

19:23:20 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225073 << or here.

19:23:20 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 03:55:05; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.

19:23:30 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-05-2015#1149162 mircea_popescu, yes

19:23:30 assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 22:36:03; jurov: I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo

19:23:40 phf: observing it here that is

19:23:50 jurov: iirc was 8u

19:24:10 ascii_field: jurov: and if it starts rebooting ?

19:24:24 jurov: then i can irl negrate people

19:24:26 shinohai: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/watch-florida-pastor-says-women-should-greet-their-husbands-looking-spiffed-up-with-a-hot-meal-waiting/ XD

19:24:28 assbot: WATCH: Florida pastor says women should greet their husbands looking ‘spiffed up’ with a hot meal waiting ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTBaNP )

19:25:00 jurov: what more do you want?

19:25:33 mike_c: trac is opensource. I bet I could integrate V.

19:25:44 jurov: brb

19:25:54 ascii_field: mike_c: the beauty of 'v' is that no server, as such, is needed

19:26:08 ascii_field: just a place to park the latest stuff

19:26:19 ascii_field: and if it is ever tampered in any way, becomes immediately apparent to everyone.

19:26:41 ascii_field: would this be true of a hypothetical 'bugtracker with v' ?

19:26:44 mike_c: Surely. But integrating V could allow for "this patch solved this problem"

19:27:12 mike_c: patches are signed, so I don't see why tampering wouldn't be evident.

19:27:12 ascii_field: and now we have unsigned text and a centralized place to pwn and track activity

19:27:29 mike_c: why unsigned?

19:29:01 ascii_field: because what, you will sign every comment? every stateful change, button click ?

19:29:13 mike_c: No, just every patch. I'll fiddle with it and see if anything interesting happens.

19:29:33 mike_c: ah, but i see your point. mailing list is signed, this wouldn't be.

19:29:39 ascii_field: precisely.

19:31:15 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258848 << iirc a traditional cage is 42u.

19:31:15 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:21:09; mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?

19:31:17 mike_c: perhaps then less is more. just a todo-list with open/closed and claimed/unclaimed. communication all stays on mailing list

19:31:50 phf: mike_c: do you have a todo list for bitcoind written somewhere? or for v?

19:32:10 ascii_field: phf: the one for 'v' can be found in my original posting of it on the ml

19:32:11 mike_c: no, neither does anyone else.

19:32:26 mike_c: ascii_field; but it's out of date and incomplete

19:32:30 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150831/v_429012f762de1faf81e97b14832c2a9098ec851b.py << here.

19:32:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTC7pD )

19:32:50 ascii_field: and mike_c is right, it is not entirely current.

19:33:26 ascii_field: however, i am not convinced that merely following the conversation here is not bugtracky enough

19:33:34 ascii_field: it was plainly not enough to reconstruct patch flow, yes

19:33:44 ascii_field: but for 'who wants to do what', it ought to suffice imho

19:34:17 mike_c: I think we may be close to the line.

19:34:24 mike_c: if not already over

19:34:40 ascii_field: mike_c: can you think of a time when two+ people ended up doing the same things?

19:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3973 @ 0.00067118 = 2.6666 BTC [+]

19:34:51 ascii_field: or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting

19:35:04 mike_c: But I agree with your point about avoiding a lot of unsigned commentary

19:35:40 mike_c: ascii_field: the locking thing is not the biggest thing to me, more the accurate list of things that could/should be done.

19:36:09 mike_c: but to answer your question, yes.

19:36:09 phf: mike_c: ah but it's not true that nobody has those lists. ascii has one, i'm sure does mp, mod6 and ben_vulpes. i keep one too from reading the logs in a text file

19:36:26 mircea_popescu: jurov so it would be ~600 bucks for 8u of space, then hire you to manage it and then buy the actual machines. as an upside you actually have physical access and will lock down the boxes ?

19:36:37 phf: i think at issue is not really collision, but getting someone else to construct a todo list for you..

19:37:15 mike_c: I don't think that issue is phrased quite right. I'm not looking to get someone else to do anything.

19:37:25 mircea_popescu: phf more layers to it but as a first approximation yea

19:39:12 mike_c: !gettrust phf

19:39:13 assbot: Trust relationship from user mike_c to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mike_c&to=phf | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/phf/

19:39:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8466 @ 0.00065577 = 5.5517 BTC [-] {2}

19:40:15 mircea_popescu: another very important chunk of the story is the fallout from the "causes not purposes" philosophy. all b-a software exists because, not for, and this is HOW we end up with things like "well we now have this v-jewel, what's it for ?"

19:40:20 mircea_popescu: something that never happens ailleurs.

19:42:24 mircea_popescu: ascii_field and a traditional wife cooks. what's your point.

19:43:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ah point is to explain that 'cage' is a kind of standard term, like 'barrel' in petro industry

19:43:21 ascii_field: for anyone who did not know

19:43:40 mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting << i could give some examples of this, but of dubious actual substance.

19:43:56 ascii_field: let's have example ?

19:43:59 mircea_popescu: barrel is two and a half gallons now.

19:44:00 ascii_field: even if tenuous

19:44:05 ascii_field: l0lwat

19:44:21 mircea_popescu: o you didn't know ? grew upwards in larger size from previous.

19:44:40 ascii_field: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=40+rods+per+hogshead+in+mpg

19:44:44 assbot: 40 rods per hogshead in mpg - Wolfram|Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTDc0z )

19:44:49 ascii_field: 'in my days we got forty rods to the hog's head and we loved it!!'

19:45:03 mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc the french kid that was going to do one of the versions of the job board thing got upset and left in part because iho he was waitinfg for me.

19:45:26 ascii_field: pankkake ?

19:45:38 ascii_field: (or was it pankakke ?)

19:45:46 mircea_popescu: right

19:46:42 mircea_popescu: am i the only one getting spam from people trying to push blog-on-app "solutions" ?

19:47:04 mircea_popescu: that's fucking exactly what fraudsters needs, an annoying dinger on people's phones ffs.

19:47:11 jurov: mircea_popescu: yes i will ask about the locking and exact dimensions. also will need someone to make the shopping list and plan,

19:47:30 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:47:37 mircea_popescu: jurov but to be perfectly clear, this is a deal where you physically have access to the boxes in question and nobody else touches them

19:47:38 jurov: since i planned a rack onyl once so far, not something i'm proud of

19:48:00 ascii_field: jurov: if this were me, and here in this town, i would set up the batteries, tamper sensors, mains loggers, camera...

19:48:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26115 @ 0.00065489 = 17.1025 BTC [-] {3}

19:48:04 ascii_field: but it is impractical to have it here

19:48:09 jurov: yes, i understand. if it can be locked only together with other boxen, will say so

19:48:23 mircea_popescu: huh /

19:48:51 ascii_field: jurov: may be worth asking if your cage can be an actual locking sarcophagus

19:49:09 mircea_popescu: and talking of 8 year olds, http://40.media.tumblr.com/a31c0e8f0f214b72c92bf13dba150d08/tumblr_nnvzxmtliK1rlxc3wo1_1280.jpg

19:49:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NLa36u )

19:49:43 mircea_popescu: jurov in general, worth asking to get very clear answers because in principle i would be interested, but i have to clearly know what i'm interested in.

19:51:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29011 @ 0.00064788 = 18.7956 BTC [-] {2}

19:52:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66135 @ 0.00064974 = 42.9706 BTC [+] {3}

19:53:29 BingoBoingo: !up indiancandy1

19:53:35 indiancandy1: hii

19:54:22 jurov: ofc will ask everything

19:55:35 jurov: but i suspect the features you ask and the price will diverge considerably :(

19:57:56 jurov: also, what if lizards reboot the machine remotely with magic packets?

19:58:30 jurov: what was the proximate cause ?

20:04:57 *: kakobrekla checks last bitbet comments and zomgwtfisthatdudethinking

20:06:32 ascii_field: jurov: kinda why i want to place arbitrary hardware of my own making in there

20:08:07 ben_vulpes: what's new, indiancandy1?

20:10:34 ascii_field: let them magicpacket my fpga.

20:11:47 mike_c: kakobrekla: it's not even right..

20:12:03 mike_c: oh, nvm, those are payouts

20:13:11 mike_c: I guess he trusts you not to muck with his comment more than to get the payments right :)

20:13:14 jurov: ascii_field: you relish in impossible requirements, don't you? i just that ... palpable improvement over some box no one in the wot ever saw, is possible

20:13:36 ascii_field: jurov: colo is impossible now ?

20:13:39 ascii_field: expensive, yes

20:13:43 ascii_field: but impossible ?

20:13:57 jurov: yes i meant at that price

20:14:31 ascii_field: now price - possibly

20:14:48 jurov: and the juxtaposition of you doing it all personally and it being not in the north america

20:14:48 ascii_field: certainly 2btc doesn't buy so much as a parking space here where ~i~ live

20:15:04 ascii_field: jurov: well yes, i will not be doing it personally, unfortunately

20:15:18 ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done.

20:17:08 thestringpuller: ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done. << doesn't this technically make it impossible?

20:17:14 mircea_popescu: jurov im not interested in what may happen as much as im interested in taking specific reasonable measures.

20:17:16 thestringpuller: with the circumstances

20:17:36 mircea_popescu: and what exactly diverge you mean ? someone offered you half a rack for 500 except if you wish to touch it it's 19500 ?

20:17:52 jurov: no

20:18:17 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no you know, he's saved it there because that way, if we do something fishy, the record will be left behind.

20:18:24 mircea_popescu: on our own site. in the comments section.

20:18:29 mircea_popescu: weblogic.

20:18:56 jurov: if it turns out it's not possible to have lockable sub-compartment and must have whole vage for 1000 euro

20:19:02 jurov: *cage for

20:19:05 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:19:11 mircea_popescu: jurov that'd be the least of my concerns.

20:19:35 jurov: okay. another concern would be?

20:19:54 mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/

20:21:54 mircea_popescu: just find out if you can put your hands on it and figure out if you want to.

20:22:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258447 <<< because cool toy, aha.

20:22:28 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:00:06; mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production

20:23:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258454 << you don't understand, it's fine when we do it. and the people we like. and poettering.

20:23:25 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?

20:23:43 mircea_popescu: "open source people" used to mean something, like "burning man attendant" used to mean something. now it means something else.

20:27:16 mircea_popescu: anyway, basically stallman saw the problem of "if i release bitcoin then the twerps will get it and pretend to be using it, and then pretend to be improving on it and soon enough it will be indistinguishable from the sort of shit that it was made to kill. because the source of the shit drowning us is neither god nor the aliens nor unforseen circumstances - it's the lesser apes we insist on calling humans for no reason."

20:27:33 mircea_popescu: and his solution to it was a sort of "so i'll release just the tip"

20:27:44 mircea_popescu: because that works now, and such nonsense counts as strategic design.

20:27:58 ascii_field: not only that, but rms is not mircea_popescu and the thieves would cry 'stop thief', sue inventor for using own item, and win.

20:28:22 mircea_popescu: doesn't matter who one is, bad strat is bad strat.

20:28:40 mats: because search is broken i am having trouble discovering the revocation thread. anyone have a link, or would mind explaining implications for e.g. keyserver?

20:29:03 mircea_popescu: what revocation ?

20:29:28 mats: key revocation

20:29:35 mircea_popescu: explain what this means.

20:29:44 mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-05-2015#1132549

20:29:44 assbot: Logged on 15-05-2015 03:34:04; assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 21:44:05; ascii_field: i'm kinda curious why mircea_popescu considers a new key signed with a previous key to not be a logical continuation of the same identity. (is it because of the impossibility of hard-guaranteed revocation, as discussed in previous thread?)

20:30:07 mircea_popescu: the concept as intuited by gpg users is meaningless.

20:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14343 @ 0.000665 = 9.5381 BTC [+]

20:30:52 mats: so, practically, i shouldn't even bother handling revocation signatures?

20:31:09 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258978 < but women arent in amsterdam?

20:31:09 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 20:19:54; mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/

20:31:11 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't fault you for ignoring them. i would fault you for "handling" an undefined concept in a weird way.

20:31:48 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla on occasion they are.

20:32:50 kakobrekla: when the phuctor is down i guess.

20:32:51 ascii_field: iirc what mircea_popescu painstakingly explained in that old thread is that there is not, of course, a magical incantation which makes a 'revoked' key stop working

20:33:36 ascii_field: kakobrekla: it is presently not working other than for the display of old results. and will not work again until it gets 6+ weeks of uninterrupted mains current.

20:34:01 mircea_popescu: o.O that bad ?!

20:34:11 kakobrekla: there is too many or to few womenz in ams.

20:34:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes, that bad

20:34:41 ascii_field: and if on 6wk - 1minute it resets, count again.

20:34:42 mircea_popescu: i thought it was a coupla weeks.

20:34:49 ascii_field: my rough calculation is this.

20:35:04 mircea_popescu: lol well this will need a redesign then.

20:35:08 mircea_popescu: too damned vulnerable.

20:35:41 ascii_field: any redesign of that thing means rewrite 100%

20:35:51 kakobrekla: yeah you need aws

20:35:51 ascii_field: because 1st step non-negotiably is to stop using sqlite.

20:35:53 *: kakobrekla runs

20:36:05 ascii_field: kakobrekla: laugh, but that's where it lived for 1st year and a half

20:36:10 kakobrekla: i know!

20:36:55 mircea_popescu: stop using whatever it takes, but the idea is, if a power outage a season means it does no useful work worth the mention, we can't have it. because we no longer live in the world of our forefathers, where shit worked. even obama gets power interrupted once a year.

20:37:40 kakobrekla: once a year ends up at 90% utilization which is acceptable, no ?

20:37:57 ascii_field: thing is,

20:38:06 ascii_field: if i can put a 12v lead-acid cell in the 1u colo,

20:38:09 ascii_field: no interruptions

20:38:21 ascii_field: supposing the place is actually a data center and has ~some~ backup power

20:38:27 ascii_field: rather than multi-hour outages

20:39:07 mircea_popescu: if multi hour outages are what you need, multi hour outages are what you'll get.

20:39:15 mircea_popescu: software that's more friable than the hardware is a bad idea.

20:39:53 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: even with optimal design, it can save the product of moduli perhaps once per 24h

20:39:54 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6/52

20:39:54 gribble: 0.115384615385

20:40:00 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla not even a single nine.

20:40:00 ascii_field: so every outage is 24h of lost cycles.

20:40:13 ascii_field: there is NO WAY to save it after every multiplication!

20:40:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_field 24 hours is within range. even, maybe, a week.

20:40:17 mircea_popescu: six weeks is insanity.

20:40:29 ascii_field: so they will pull power every day

20:40:29 mircea_popescu: take it out of weeks and into days.

20:40:34 mircea_popescu: this i wish to see.

20:40:43 ascii_field: mircea_popescu did say, 'if you need x hour outages you will get'

20:40:50 kakobrekla: lulz

20:40:51 mircea_popescu: that, yes.

20:41:02 ascii_field: we already established that it is not affecting diametric's machine

20:41:15 mircea_popescu: why are you arguing with me!

20:41:18 ascii_field: so what, monkey tasked with pulling out my mains cord, his arms will get tired?

20:41:21 ascii_field: from pulling every hour ?

20:41:28 mircea_popescu: yeah. maybe i manage to shoot one.

20:42:09 mircea_popescu: somehow this reminded me of bofh

20:42:18 ascii_field: 'solar flares!'

20:42:25 funkenstein_: phuctor@home

20:42:27 ascii_field: ... he pulled new leaf from Excuse Calendar

20:42:37 ascii_field: funkenstein_: it is serial process

20:42:40 ascii_field: so no at home.

20:44:33 mircea_popescu: "I recognize that you don't want me to "change the subject" to refactoring, but I don't see this as a change of subject."

20:44:38 mircea_popescu: dude what the fuck is wrong with these people.

20:44:56 ascii_field: oh certainly i must rewrite it

20:44:59 mircea_popescu: "i will now say some words about your position after which we disregard it and replace it with mine. MAGIC!!1"

20:45:07 ascii_field: but do not have the time, and don't know when i will.

20:45:26 mircea_popescu: ascii_field was quoting from a summary of that ast debate someone linked.

20:45:32 ascii_field: ah lol

20:46:57 mircea_popescu: ascii_field can't it be made to dump the product to disk along with some state every however long ? once a day ?

20:47:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes. and nothing whatsoever can happen when it dumps

20:47:16 mircea_popescu: a hack, obviously

20:47:23 mircea_popescu: no problem there.

20:50:16 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:50:19 ascii_field: this, too, means rewriting a good chunk of the thing.

20:50:22 ascii_field: and will happen.

20:50:24 ascii_field: at some point.

20:50:56 ascii_field: probably i ought to explain why.

20:50:58 mircea_popescu: "I was amazed that they were able to persuade RMS not to block the conversion to C++, and as the article points out, five years of plugins have not led to disaster;"

20:51:03 mircea_popescu: orly ? they have shown this ?

20:51:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34185 @ 0.000665 = 22.733 BTC [+]

20:51:07 ascii_field: right now the factorizer and the web crud are entirely separate programs

20:51:10 mircea_popescu: to whom, and where the fuck was he looking

20:51:14 ascii_field: which do not communicate except via sharing a db.

20:51:37 mircea_popescu: ascii_field so that db, can't it be snapshotted by a third thing ?

20:51:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not without stopping all of it

20:52:00 mircea_popescu: the design as described is good, and it should be db-replicated

20:52:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field go in as root, lock the db, dump it, unlock it.

20:52:15 mircea_popescu: what, someone'll complain ?

20:52:21 mats: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gdp-economy-recession-1.3210790

20:52:23 assbot: Recession confirmed as Canada's GDP shrank in 2nd quarter - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJU4TS )

20:52:29 ascii_field: mno, what happens is that the result is not consistent.

20:52:35 ascii_field: sqlite is a steaming pile of shit.

20:52:43 mircea_popescu: mats lucky that the us was corrected up from the previous corection of 4.5

20:52:46 mircea_popescu: to 9.18 or w/e

20:52:53 mircea_popescu: ascii_field it can't be locked ?

20:53:53 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not effectively. recall, the two processes do not know about one another.

20:54:10 mircea_popescu: so ?

20:54:14 mircea_popescu: this is what db locks are for.

20:54:20 ascii_field: it was an ultra-minimal design, that cannot be changed at all without making 25x more complicated.

20:54:28 ascii_field: afaik.

20:54:42 mircea_popescu: what does your factorizer do if the db returns "wait" or w/e it returns if a lock's active

20:54:55 mircea_popescu: heck, the db shouldn't even complain, just hold the data

20:55:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.000665 = 29.5925 BTC [+]

20:59:14 jurov: you swear on bitcoind's bdb hardwired in, yet you apparently did the same with phuctor and sqlite? O.o

20:59:52 jurov: if it's sane python+sql, maybe two lines

21:00:41 ascii_field: jurov: appreciate, the thing was written in a coupla hours.

21:00:48 ascii_field: jurov: and i don't ~do~ www

21:01:12 jurov: i appreciate very much. but can't readily imagine this situation

21:01:22 mircea_popescu: iirc the code was release no ?

21:01:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the non-www part, yes

21:01:34 mircea_popescu: released*

21:01:42 mircea_popescu: db calls and all ?

21:01:48 ascii_field: 1sec..

21:02:34 mircea_popescu: it occurs to me this;d be a fine project for a young gent. "here's this code alf himself wrote (in two hours). here's the problem. fix it without breaking anyhing!"

21:02:50 mircea_popescu: it can go straighht to ml, and it can be an early 2nd simpler project to handle via V

21:03:42 ascii_field: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/werker.c

21:03:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAjHWZ )

21:04:41 ascii_field: thing is, it also needs to be rebuilt as discussed before, where it stores ~known factors of any given modulus~ in the db

21:04:49 ascii_field: rather than flagging 'phuctored moduli'

21:05:14 mircea_popescu: one thing at a time neh ?

21:05:15 ascii_field: potentially folks could even submit 'i know a factor for modulus m!' into a box somewhere, regardless of why

21:05:26 mircea_popescu: neah.

21:05:27 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: some things cannot be retrofitted. this is one of them.

21:05:40 mircea_popescu: trinque you wanna derp with this db ?

21:05:52 ascii_field: and it is the only way of having moduli be retestable without temporarily unphuctoring them

21:06:47 ascii_field: phuctor is one of those things that is mechanically deadly simple on paper but very, very easy to fuck up irrevocably in practice

21:06:57 ascii_field: consider, flip so much as one bit in the product

21:07:00 ascii_field: and it is garbage.

21:07:29 jurov: that make it even more important to snapshot it

21:07:51 mircea_popescu: myeah

21:07:56 ascii_field: jurov: problem is that it takes a while to - reliably - save or load a GB.

21:08:09 ascii_field: and while it happens no multiplication can take place.

21:08:17 mircea_popescu: that "a while" is not six weeks.

21:08:25 mircea_popescu: during which we just established jack shit's taking place.

21:08:38 ascii_field: well, yes. but in 6 wks product is reliably regenerated

21:09:01 mircea_popescu: i don't care about the site being down an hour a day, to save its guts.

21:09:11 mircea_popescu: i do care about airing air for the next two months.

21:09:15 ascii_field: (incidentally, it ~is~ possible to do this faster by splitting multiplications into a tree and distributing between machines. but this is considerably more moving part than what we have now, and quite enough for ph.d. thesis)

21:10:09 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is very much right that the thing ought to save itself nightly. but this in fact requires rewrite.

21:10:16 ascii_field: of more or less whole thing.

21:12:01 ascii_field: also would be nice to NOT ignore the 5% or so of sks keys that have utf8-isms in'em

21:12:34 ascii_field: but this requires not only rewrite but the remaking of pgpdump lib !

21:13:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00067349 = 16.8036 BTC [+] {3}

21:16:06 punkman: sqlite has online backups https://www.sqlite.org/c3ref/backup_finish.html

21:16:07 assbot: Online Backup API. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWxNV )

21:16:19 punkman: ascii_field: which part in werker takes 6 weeks?

21:16:40 ascii_field: read.

21:16:56 ascii_field: gen_prod.

21:19:51 ascii_field: BingoBoingo et al: http://www.ksat.com/news/ksatcom-exclusive-unedited-video-of-fatal-deputy-involved-shooting

21:19:54 assbot: KSAT.COM EXCLUSIVE: Unedited video of fatal deputy-involved... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWVMu )

21:20:07 ascii_field: ^ fella shot by cop after surrendering, on camera

21:20:13 ascii_field: with hands up

21:21:47 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:21:57 ascii_field: we might be nearing mircea_popescu's magic 3% figure...

21:28:48 ascii_field: and then they drag the body..

21:29:42 thestringpuller: this is like some gta stuff

21:30:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00067506 = 17.3153 BTC [+] {3}

21:32:01 thestringpuller: ascii_field: this is why you avoid leaving the house huh?

21:32:11 thestringpuller: damn d00d isn't even black...

21:32:31 ascii_field: thestringpuller: i only ~wish~ i could avoid leaving house

21:32:41 ascii_field: but at any rate, can get firing squad wherever

21:32:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00068063 = 16.9137 BTC [+] {2}

21:32:46 ascii_field: doesn't have to be at home.

21:33:21 ascii_field: i personally would not be very astonished to end up killed in some variation on this theme.

21:38:47 mats: jurov: plz privmsg when coinbr returns from maintenance mode

21:43:18 mats: in the future some prior notification would be nice so i could shift into neutral

21:43:40 jurov: well, you said yourself you had some orders in error state

21:43:49 mats: not me

21:43:49 jurov: what other notification do you need?

21:43:59 mats: not today, anyway

21:44:38 jurov: if i had to stop it every time there's unexpected balance discrepance, that would be several times per day

21:45:54 mats: this is not reassuring

21:46:16 jurov: did you read my mpex manual? it's explained there

21:47:35 jurov: and i complained numerous times here, too

21:49:09 jurov: also, i suspect i recently started using more proxies, which may have exacerbated the problem.. it's arduous to research, not done yet

21:53:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258483 << which is pretty much all of america, sadly.

21:53:14 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:42:32; ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em

21:53:19 mircea_popescu: which is why the design eventually failed.

21:54:04 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:54:51 mircea_popescu: or to quote the webexperts in derpxertises, "The elephant in the room is that GCC and emacs aren't competing against proprietary compilers so much as they are against LLVM and clang. Whichever one has better features and support for programming is going to win mindshare and without mindshare you are dead. This is compounded by the fact that there are several major corporations helping LLVM along so you need steady cont

21:54:51 mircea_popescu: ributions and use just to stay even with them."

21:55:33 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019862 << see also.

21:55:33 assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 21:43:42; asciilifeform: 'but Richard is seemingly frightened about the compiler competition from LLVM that is out under a permissive free software license.' << fud artist lies through his teeth. rms is not 'frightened of competition under permissive licenses', but is pointing out that organized attack by shitgnomes flying (as always) flags of convenience, is under way.

21:56:14 mircea_popescu: myeah.

21:56:25 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-02-2015#1015336 << also.

21:56:25 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 22:07:54; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the llvm thing, prior to career as apple crud, had a previous life as a darling plaything of u.s. 'comp sci' academitardia

21:56:45 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:57:13 ascii_field: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html << from horse's mouth

21:57:14 assbot: Richard Stallman - Re: clang vs free software ... ( http://bit.ly/1L2e9RN )

21:57:58 mircea_popescu: Posted Jan 25, 2015 13:39 UTC (Sun) by dakas (guest, #88146) [Link]

21:57:58 mircea_popescu: Uh, Eric Raymond explicitly created the "Open Source" label exactly to appeal to industry players who considered bothering with principles suspicious. So yes, Open Source is for people without principles. That's not Stallman's pitch, but an explicit design goal of the Open Source agenda. To replace the appeal to principles, a bunch of technical and marketing criteria are propounded.

21:57:58 mircea_popescu: The dearth of actually successful Open Source companies (where Open Source is part of a permanent rather than an exit strategy) makes it pretty clear that this "realistic" advertising strategy is not actually founded in much realism.

21:58:02 mircea_popescu: guy has a point.

21:58:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00068214 = 12.4832 BTC [+] {3}

21:58:21 trinque: I am prepping to move cross-country, so I can't make hard commitments re: time this week or next; however I don't mind taking a look at phuctor's db use at all.

21:58:24 mircea_popescu: and perhaps the best illustration in history of what ~exactly~ "flag of convenience" means.

21:58:37 ascii_field: aha

21:58:45 mircea_popescu: "hey, some 8 yo might have died for some reason - wouldn't you like this list of washington apointees to decide who can marry in pakistan and when and wqhy ?"

21:58:57 ascii_field: typical human approach to orcraft

21:59:46 mircea_popescu: also what "stealing the stealing" is. check out gcc, and it's "mindshare". because that's what we're calling reddit votes now.

22:00:08 mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised we're not hearing all about faux-bitcoin "mindshare".

22:01:46 mircea_popescu: in other news, "you charging passerbys for the sexual use of your wife is very bad because she'll lose mindshare. should give her away for free, and then raise the children. experts agree!"

22:02:55 mircea_popescu: .gif

22:05:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00067906 = 7.3338 BTC [-]

22:09:11 ascii_field: BingoBoingo et al: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/08/25/Police-Men-plotted-to-use-drone-to-smuggle-drugs-gun-porn-into-prison/3451440520682 << l0l

22:09:54 trinque: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/illinois-police-officer-shot-prompting-manhunt-reports-article-1.2344209 << another cop shot too

22:09:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L2gADC )

22:10:02 trinque: didn't see it in logs, might've already been treated

22:10:37 trinque: gonna need a hashtag for this shit; it's trending

22:11:13 ascii_field: trinque: usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to.

22:12:01 mircea_popescu: and you know this how.

22:12:10 ascii_field: hypothesis.

22:12:16 trinque: I think it will behave ever more incoherently until it shakes apart entirely

22:12:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00068365 = 11.2337 BTC [+]

22:12:30 ascii_field: i mean, it was happily spreading microbes in own cities, as early as '60s

22:12:35 ascii_field: 'for test'

22:12:41 ascii_field: 'harmless'

22:13:52 trinque: sure wasn't that in california somewhere (among others probably)

22:14:20 ascii_field: iirc san fran.

22:14:22 ascii_field: brb

22:14:52 mircea_popescu: these are kinda different.

22:15:24 mircea_popescu: the important point about bombs is not the destruction. it's that they are loud and enforce in the recipient a taste of his own powerlessness.

22:15:50 mircea_popescu: i think i said it before, but anyway : the important thing about a beating isn't the actual beating, but the part that forces the recipient to internalise he has no recourse.

22:16:25 mircea_popescu: if you go kloink some dude on the street upside the head, he'll just think himself mistreated, go look for places to complain - the police station, the church, wherever.

22:16:34 mircea_popescu: he'll fantasize about being made whole, all that nonsense.

22:16:56 mircea_popescu: when you beat a slave, it is educative because she knows that this is strictly reality, and the only way out is internalised change.

22:17:22 mircea_popescu: so no, microbes can not be used as substitute for your original " usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to." specifically because that one chief ingredient is missing.

22:17:55 trinque: the microbes were tested on people because they wanted to know the results

22:18:15 mircea_popescu: (this is also why the agreement wass in england that if hitler had in fact the resources and the will to continue bombing for six weeks he'd have won the war with britain.

22:18:17 trinque: speaks to maybe their sense of impunity but nothing else

22:18:23 mircea_popescu: not because "britain would have bene destroyed" per se.)

22:19:12 mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.

22:19:23 trinque: you need cowards.

22:19:34 mircea_popescu: not exactly cowards. you need jwz's.

22:19:40 mircea_popescu: people who've decided "they just want to X".

22:19:42 trinque: whatever he is, a worm

22:19:50 mircea_popescu: a civilised man!

22:19:59 *: trinque clears his throat

22:20:01 trinque: my mistake!

22:20:02 mircea_popescu: polite and not fucking his secretary.

22:20:03 trinque: haha

22:20:16 pete_dushenski: one who 'doesn't say things like that'

22:20:35 mircea_popescu: because it isn't necessary!

22:20:38 pete_dushenski: and 'doesn't bang her like that' idem

22:20:43 mircea_popescu: or called for! or fair to the black people!

22:21:22 phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...

22:21:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpIyPq )

22:21:42 trinque: because civilization is something which happens in the absence-of, not something which happened due to some particular mechanism of conditioning

22:22:03 trinque: you just prevent all the meanies from being mean, and then wealth and empire emerges

22:22:26 trinque: speaking of bombing, when does the Fed start buying stocks directly

22:22:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258501 << you're nine months old to that party. what reputation ?

22:22:39 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:57:22; *: btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.

22:23:01 btcdrak: bwahahahaha

22:23:17 mircea_popescu: phf not a half bad idea

22:24:21 mircea_popescu: trinque the fed mostly owns privately issued paper anyway. mostly bond bundles, but most of them are tied to stocks (via banks) so in point of fact the fed owns atm ~118-122% or so of the entire us economy

22:24:44 trinque: ah, then I'm way behind

22:25:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 53100 @ 0.00038573 = 20.4823 BTC [+]

22:26:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258516 << it does have a very 1970s spy flick air to it doesn't it.

22:26:03 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:16:07; ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug

22:34:01 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258703 << he fought the law, foolishly, and the law won. as it does.

22:34:01 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 18:50:51; ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?

22:34:14 ben_vulpes: he also fought entrenched interests, and they won. as they do.

22:40:34 mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.

22:42:08 trinque: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/you-think-the-stock-market-is-crazy-look-at-oil-prices/2015/09/01/63b35f40-50e9-11e5-b225-90edbd49f362_story.html << money's sloshing all over the place

22:48:26 jurov: deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201508.txt.asc

22:48:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpL3RN )

22:48:29 deedbot-: accepted: 1

22:48:55 jurov: deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150902/attachment_a339ad5e335ee4a41bd52737e69623d7b3355301.txt

22:48:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpL603 )

22:48:57 deedbot-: accepted: 1

23:00:58 jurov: mircea's entrepreneur experience in 90's romania is germane to everything

23:03:15 jurov: here, too, practically gave up on income tax avoidance to this day

23:03:46 jurov: the govt.. and try make that up on VAT

23:05:40 jurov: and (completely lawful) nonrecognition of business expenses happens, too.

23:09:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.0006905 = 15.0874 BTC [+]

23:10:57 trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency

23:10:59 trinque: why take the risk?

23:11:04 trinque: and if you're not, good job!

23:11:18 trinque: well, I should say, it is a move you ought to be prepared to back up.

23:15:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14806 @ 0.00068314 = 10.1146 BTC [-] {3}

23:17:32 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258779 << i'm aware of "tx dumper" as a TODO item that alf gives a shit about and that's more or less all. everything else is in his and mircea_popescu's heads.

23:17:32 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:07:20; ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery

23:17:46 ben_vulpes: mod6 probably has his own as well.

23:18:36 hanbot: getting ready to implement something ben_vulpes?

23:19:57 ben_vulpes: since when have i implemented anything, hanbot?!

23:20:41 hanbot: todo list!

23:21:02 hanbot: it's a full day just following along the ml, honestly.

23:21:12 ben_vulpes: "every software development company eventually ends up writing their own issue tracker, time tracker, and billing system."

23:21:45 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258801 << you and i i think are coming at this from the wrong angle.

23:21:45 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:10:19; mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"

23:22:16 ben_vulpes: work on this thing cannot be marshalled. must be self-organized, by the selves so involved.

23:23:51 ben_vulpes: hanbot: i once cooked up a wiki page on the topic. has since languished, rotted, died.

23:24:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4744 @ 0.00067592 = 3.2066 BTC [-]

23:27:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259238 << entirely impractical. 1) IT TAKES FOREVER 2) nothing can happen while it happens!

23:27:44 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:21:22; phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...

23:28:28 asciilifeform: phf: or, if this is only for period snapshots, then yes

23:28:37 asciilifeform: phf: and i have a half-written version of that. somewhere

23:28:41 asciilifeform: still does not help me now

23:28:49 asciilifeform: because have to somehow regenerate the lost product

23:28:58 asciilifeform: and motherfuckers strategically yank the mains cable

23:29:07 asciilifeform: comical idiocy, and i have no way around it presently

23:30:15 asciilifeform: aaaand it would have to be db-aware, because has to remember now ~which~ moduli in db are represented in the snapshot..

23:30:47 hanbot: look on the bright side: at least people care enough to find the holes in your design.

23:30:50 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259224 << afghan doesn't rely on food trucks, flush toilet, or mains wiring. fragile things.

23:30:50 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:19:12; mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.

23:31:11 asciilifeform: hanbot: these are not 'holes' as such, in that i was aware of them from hour 0.

23:32:01 hanbot: hey, i have some of those too!

23:32:07 asciilifeform: l0l

23:34:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259255 << very germane. american tax law designates specifically people like me for maximum pederasty treatment at every possible opportunity.

23:34:29 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:40:34; mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.

23:35:50 asciilifeform: 'enough money to be worth raping and killing, but not enough to hire lawyers or run away to .ar etc'

23:36:09 asciilifeform: aka usg feeding pool.

23:38:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259268 << also recall the several threads where i explained that not only are virtually all of my expenses (and 100% of income) denominated in usd, but specifically the insta-trackable electronic kind.

23:38:36 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 23:10:57; trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency

23:46:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i hope you're awake for this one

23:46:44 mircea_popescu: because maximally, we accidentally found a magic packet.

23:49:24 kakobrekla: magic packet that plugs the mains cable?

23:49:29 kakobrekla: pulls*

23:49:32 mircea_popescu: yes

23:49:37 kakobrekla: niggawut

23:49:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/1Q5WYQQ << every single time.

23:49:50 assbot: dpaste: 1Q5WYQQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKsQMt )

23:49:55 mircea_popescu: you ask for that tx. it disconnects.

23:50:16 mircea_popescu: i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.

23:51:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8366 @ 0.00068294 = 5.7135 BTC [+]

23:51:37 *: kakobrekla for a second thought magick packet rebooted phuctor

23:51:52 mircea_popescu: that's in next week's crop kako

23:51:58 kakobrekla: heh

23:53:24 mircea_popescu: and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.

23:56:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00067926 = 3.0227 BTC [-]

23:56:38 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker

23:56:39 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 227.97, Best ask: 228.06, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 228.06, 24 hour volume: 9813.28330955, 24 hour low: 226.55, 24 hour high: 232.39, 24 hour vwap: None

23:58:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !!

23:58:29 asciilifeform: glorious

23:59:06 *: asciilifeform washes chopping block

23:59:57 asciilifeform: if (nPos > ReceiveBufferSize()) {

23:59:57 asciilifeform: if (!pnode->fDisconnect)

23:59:57 asciilifeform: printf("socket recv flood control disconnect (%d bytes)\n", vRecv.size());

23:59:57 asciilifeform: pnode->CloseSocketDisconnect();

23:59:57 asciilifeform: }