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Transcript for 01-12-2014, 1833 lines:

00:01:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69476 @ 0.00035537 = 24.6897 BTC [-] {2}

00:02:07 cazalla: tandacoin, you run that site with microguy, the goldcoin scammer?

00:02:43 mats_cd03: cazalla is a little heavy handed with the criticism

00:03:14 kakobrekla: no time for being soft, time for pokemon!

00:03:21 mats_cd03: works better to educate, then drop the bombs after it fails

00:04:04 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> "this is actually the only cockroach in this soup". <<< lel

00:04:16 nubbins`: "press any button you want except for the one that breaks it"

00:04:24 cazalla: mats_cd03, not reary, the guy was only trying to get an article up on qntra to pump his own site in all likelihood

00:04:29 adlai: "our planes may be old, but they're also uncomfortable"

00:04:31 nubbins`: "which button is that?" "it varies"

00:14:15 mats_cd03: too quick to burn bridges is all i'm saying

00:20:38 adlai: depends what's on the other side, or worse yet, partway across

00:21:33 mats_cd03: the number of newcomers that have become regulars has dwindled massively

00:22:08 mats_cd03: i feel this encourages an echo chamber as it continues

00:22:57 adlai: I'd agree in general that bridges burn fast in assettown, although in this case, let's just reread http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-11-2014#938962

00:22:57 assbot: Logged on 30-11-2014 23:54:29; tandacoin: ive used them for ages and hashstaker is going to make so much money it sold out in hours

00:23:06 mats_cd03: you'll never get a writer that reads chinese and wants to write for qntra at this rate :p

00:24:03 mats_cd03: das all i got. carry on.

00:24:23 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2014#938995 [Citation Needed]

00:24:23 assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 00:21:33; mats_cd03: the number of newcomers that have become regulars has dwindled massively

00:25:47 kakobrekla: the general discussion here also changed a lot over last years

00:28:29 kakobrekla: but i dunno, who joined in last few months that is not worth keeping?

00:29:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56350 @ 0.00034869 = 19.6487 BTC [-] {3}

00:31:40 ben_vulpes: PinkPosixPXE's downright neat

00:31:42 ben_vulpes: i like undata

00:31:53 ben_vulpes: adlai...writes lisp

00:32:00 kakobrekla: yeah fuck him

00:32:06 ben_vulpes: hahaha

00:33:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29007 @ 0.00035218 = 10.2157 BTC [+]

00:33:57 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02CNRT1.txt )

00:33:57 mod6: !b 3

00:34:42 *: asciilifeform back

00:35:21 kakobrekla: o hi, chan was worried.

00:35:26 asciilifeform: l0l

00:36:42 asciilifeform: >> the foundations 10btc should be spent on japanese toilets <<

00:36:48 *: asciilifeform seconds this motion ^

00:36:55 kakobrekla: lol

00:37:34 jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu withdrawals pls

00:37:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:41:45 BingoBoingo: Dat chart http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/a-name-matters-cryptocurrency-names-and-ratings/

00:41:46 assbot: A Name Matters: Cryptocurrency Names and Ratings ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5Xb0r )

00:45:27 asciilifeform: dbus in kernel << mega-lol! afaik the (by now universally-known) 'dbus' exploit is still a reliable 'local root escalation' on any and all boxes where the abomination is installed

00:47:37 asciilifeform: the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead << entirely spurious argument advanced by the poettering folks. 'dbus' is not (to date) used for any application where the context switch overhead would approach detectability, much less really mattering

00:50:00 asciilifeform: (what's 'dbus' ? a somewhat clunky message-passing mechanism. for... folks who don't like unix domain sockets? idk)

00:51:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: frost mage, at your fingertips. all you need is a compressor << notably, as depicted in the liquid helium scene in 'stand on zanzibar'

00:51:42 asciilifeform: (luddite girl gets doused with liquid he hose by programmer in self-defense)

00:53:00 asciilifeform: 'oath keepers' << if it isn't a honeypot, it (from usg's perspective) ought to be.

00:53:14 asciilifeform: can't think of a more perfect list of folks for the politruks to shoot come day X.

00:53:54 asciilifeform: the folks who signed up voluntarily - are, to use the inescapable usaism, 'not the brightest light bulbs at Home Depot' (hardware shop)

00:55:37 asciilifeform: lead crystal << simply a less-leaded version of the (formerly) ubiquitous glass from which crt is made.

00:55:55 asciilifeform: in the latter case, enough lead that it appears nearly black in the aggregate.

00:59:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, whoever else: after some hours and a restart the thing jumped << if it needs hand-holding for normal operation (including blockchain sync) it isn't a usable gizmo.

00:59:50 thestringpuller: at least we're closer

00:59:53 asciilifeform: really.

01:00:03 thestringpuller: last time I tried to sync blockchain, the thing just blew up

01:00:08 asciilifeform: it still blows up

01:00:14 asciilifeform: just more softly

01:01:08 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm glad you're here to hold our feet to the fire.

01:01:17 asciilifeform: this is a tremendously annoying mental glitch that i see just about everywhere - from '3d printer' enthusiasts to man-in-space aficionados. it being, the notion that solving myriad 'small, solvable' problems somehow brings us closer to solving the 'big ones' for which we have no angle of approach

01:01:26 asciilifeform: i also like to call it 'chair-stacking space program'

01:02:05 ben_vulpes: i am familiar with this metaphor of yours.

01:02:11 asciilifeform: the devilish thing is, solving the small turdlets is pleasurable

01:02:34 asciilifeform: one can paint the ww2 tank dredged up from the swamp all kinds of nice colours

01:02:49 asciilifeform: but it will not run again from the paint.

01:03:02 asciilifeform: but it sure is fun.

01:03:36 ben_vulpes: overhauling the engine consists of a myriad of turdlets.

01:03:43 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: actually i stole the chair metaphor (from - forget whom? ted nelson?)

01:03:59 ben_vulpes: boring cylinders, flushing tubes, checking elasticity of remaining o-rings...

01:04:11 asciilifeform: yes, but opening up the hood and taking the engine apart is a very different order of task than paint.

01:04:27 ben_vulpes: if the barbarian opens the hood and immediately disassembles the engine, what can we expect to happen?

01:04:55 ben_vulpes: similarly, there must be a garage, white sheet on the ground, binder for part numbering and notes.

01:05:10 ben_vulpes: this is not cargo cult deconstruction - this is taking the time to do a thing correctly.

01:05:13 asciilifeform: not really arguing with the let's have garage thing

01:05:23 asciilifeform: but hoping that no one confuses the garage with the mechanic

01:05:26 asciilifeform: who is, thus far, absent.

01:05:49 *: ben_vulpes rolls eyes

01:06:24 *: ben_vulpes goes back to building the engine hoist

01:07:08 asciilifeform: so far, not one of us is 'mechanic'

01:07:10 asciilifeform: just painters.

01:07:44 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: use the python tools to do anything with the Trezor << one of these days, someone should explain to me why a gadget like 'trezor' is necessary

01:08:04 asciilifeform: that is, a dedicated box for signing tx is useful, but why does it need to store keys?

01:08:24 asciilifeform: why not simply a keyboard jack.

01:09:21 asciilifeform: (all the scorn for brainwallets - i say - is enemy disinfo. storing private key in brain is ultimately inescapable, whatever other forms of storage are in use. hard disk? key is - where it is kept, plus decryption keys.)

01:09:37 asciilifeform: if you are pwned while using 'brainwallets', simply shows that your brain is defective

01:09:59 asciilifeform: 'must be this tall to ride.'

01:10:56 asciilifeform: so far bitcoin is the only coin that can live -entirely- in a brain, and failure to use this property is a kind of fundamental waste.

01:12:00 kakobrekla: one step at a time, those will be going to people who run winblows and possibly a webwallet

01:12:16 asciilifeform: (the ultimate logical conclusion of this idea would be the hypothetical thing that is so far the only serious improvement on 'bitcoin fundamentals' i've been able to come up with. that is, 'rectothermcoin')

01:12:26 asciilifeform: or, let's keep it short, rectocoin

01:12:29 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: no you don't understand unless it's a perfect solution it's entirely worthless

01:12:39 kakobrekla: ben_vulpes i kno :(

01:12:51 asciilifeform: where there are 'duress signatures' that are not mathematically distinguishable from genuine spends until broadcast and diffused through network

01:12:56 asciilifeform: and destroy the coin.

01:13:12 kakobrekla: we just dont understand how the world works

01:13:15 kakobrekla: now mp can retire.

01:13:17 kakobrekla: again.

01:13:20 ben_vulpes: again.

01:13:27 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2ZD862N.txt )

01:13:27 ben_vulpes: !b 4

01:13:27 asciilifeform: with rectocoin, you won't need to take the cyanide. but you'll probably wish you had.

01:16:54 kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> if you are pwned while using 'brainwallets', simply shows that your brain is defective < no need to test this hypothesis the result is known

01:17:06 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i do recall.

01:17:14 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and i still stand by the statement.

01:17:38 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: those will be going to people who run winblows and possibly a webwallet << if these are dear friends, think again before helping to culture a dangerous sense of false security.

01:18:13 kakobrekla: i will not tell them "this is 100% secure"

01:18:21 asciilifeform: (published pcb prints of that product show a microcontroller reprogrammable in-band - that is, via usb.)

01:18:22 kakobrekla: just "its better than bc webwallet"

01:18:28 asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that it is.

01:18:33 asciilifeform: better than webwallet.

01:19:14 punkman: asciilifeform: you got their website and download signed firmware, which is then pushed to device by way of browser plugin

01:19:21 asciilifeform: well, perhaps beats 'your key is safe with cloudhitler' webatron, but not civilian bitcoind

01:19:25 asciilifeform: browser plugin !?!?!

01:19:27 asciilifeform: serious?

01:19:33 punkman: all kinds of madness in there

01:19:50 asciilifeform: link?

01:20:12 *: kakobrekla admits it hasnt gone beyond asking jurov if its simple enough for my mom

01:20:22 kakobrekla: it ? he.

01:20:36 kakobrekla: unless i already melted into the box here

01:20:44 *: kakobrekla checks

01:21:03 punkman: http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-user/updatingfirmware.html

01:21:04 assbot: Updating your TREZOR’s firmware — TREZOR User Manual 1.0 documentation ... ( http://bit.ly/1y5QFbx )

01:21:39 asciilifeform: lol!

01:21:45 asciilifeform: so not a joke.

01:21:58 asciilifeform: or rather - it is a joke. but on the chumps.

01:22:11 kakobrekla: well ill attach a note, never upgrade.

01:22:39 punkman: they did ship buggy firmware before

01:22:41 ben_vulpes: presumably the upgrade can be forced upon one by nef4ri0s micr0

01:22:41 asciilifeform: that just means luser won't upgrade on his own free will.

01:22:52 ben_vulpes: nevarious*

01:22:56 ben_vulpes: humbug

01:24:23 asciilifeform: the beautifully dark cream-your-pants future of 'shall be delivered' is not attainable until folks learn to remember serious keys (yes, remember. with head.)

01:24:40 asciilifeform: if these are not available, we shall be needing a new 'homo cryptographicus' who can

01:24:53 asciilifeform: just like the folks who can't do written language - fell by the wayside

01:25:35 kakobrekla: myea its worse than it thought this. a well, lucky for them btc has no chargeback!

01:25:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12825 @ 0.00034947 = 4.482 BTC [-]

01:26:12 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: helluva dicelist

01:26:43 asciilifeform: apologies to w. blake, but 'some are born to sweet delight,' and some are born to biodiesel pot.

01:27:01 asciilifeform: a dicelist is a list of folks who are to be diced.

01:27:06 kakobrekla: still i kinda think its a tad better than plain webwallet

01:27:06 asciilifeform: !s killfile killed

01:27:06 assbot: 0 results for 'killfile killed' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=killfile+killed

01:27:14 punkman: https://github.com/trezor too much fukken code

01:27:16 assbot: Bitcoin TREZOR · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1tCeqBF )

01:27:16 kakobrekla: which are the first ones to go

01:27:18 asciilifeform: !s kill file killed

01:27:18 assbot: 5 results for 'kill file killed' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=kill+file+killed

01:28:45 asciilifeform: punkman: i am still not able to find a copy of the actual code actually running on the physical device.

01:28:57 punkman: asciilifeform: here https://github.com/trezor/trezor-mcu

01:28:59 assbot: trezor/trezor-mcu · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1tCeEcf )

01:29:12 asciilifeform: punkman: ty

01:29:21 *: asciilifeform doesn't need this for anything, but wondered if exists

01:30:22 kakobrekla: is there some physical button to enable upgrade ?

01:30:35 punkman: allegedly

01:30:36 kakobrekla: jurov did you upgrade yours?

01:30:51 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: not in the pcb shots i saw. last time i gave a damn.

01:31:14 punkman: I don't get their whole recovery seed, pin codes, password mess

01:32:21 punkman: http://www.hardbit.cn/ this doesn't have USB, talks with QR codes only

01:32:22 assbot: Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1tCfMwf )

01:32:53 asciilifeform: punkman: and where are the circuit and firmware source for this one ?

01:32:54 kakobrekla: with scamdroid insides?

01:33:57 asciilifeform: lol apparently

01:34:10 punkman: asciilifeform: doubt they will open source it

01:34:34 asciilifeform: the reason i even bothered to respond to the trezor thing is to share the hypothesis that all of the available products are dumb because the problem they are 'solving' - is dumb.

01:34:46 asciilifeform: this is an iron law

01:34:52 asciilifeform: stupid problem, stupid 'solutions'

01:35:42 asciilifeform: i'll repeat - dedicated gizmo wherein to crunch the bignums - useful. store keys - no thanks.

01:36:06 kakobrekla: well you must store to compute

01:36:12 asciilifeform: sure.

01:36:17 asciilifeform: for a second or two.

01:36:31 kakobrekla: well you can enter your own private key in trezor and null it after done

01:36:34 kakobrekla: in theory.

01:36:41 asciilifeform: ideally would be sram-based, with heated srams for good measure

01:36:52 asciilifeform: with no flashable components of any kind whatsoever therein.

01:37:08 asciilifeform: only output - public key of addrs, and (human-readable) signed tx-es.

01:37:45 kakobrekla: hm what happend to that guy that was last here arguing about random from ram and temp n shit

01:37:53 asciilifeform: no rng needed for this.

01:38:08 kakobrekla: yes but i cant recall what were they doing

01:38:13 asciilifeform: possibly for nonce, you need.

01:38:33 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they were (or claimed to be) distilling bit flip errors from sram at room temperature

01:39:04 asciilifeform: you can do this now, find an old programmable calculator.

01:39:11 kakobrekla: !s bit flip sram

01:39:11 assbot: 1 results for 'bit flip sram' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bit+flip+sram

01:39:22 kakobrekla: aha

01:39:27 asciilifeform: not a well-behaved rng by any metric whatsoever.

01:39:30 kakobrekla: there it is

01:40:12 asciilifeform: i bring up sram as concession to the fact that the hypothetical calculator discussed earlier needs a small working memory

01:40:27 asciilifeform: what to make it from - is up to the maker. delay-line spool, if you like.

01:42:20 kakobrekla: aha seems they are selling the product.

01:45:32 ben_vulpes: http://bitkey.io/

01:45:33 assbot: BitKey - Secure Bitcoin Live USB key for offline transactions ... ( http://bit.ly/1tChi1A )

01:46:09 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this appears to be a 'linux live cd' of a kind.

01:46:14 asciilifeform: why interesting?

01:47:11 ben_vulpes: fuel for the fire

01:47:26 asciilifeform: 'Electrum Bitcoin client, incognito chromium, bitaddress, qrcode, zxcvbn. File manager, network and wireless manager. Auto-mounting USB storage support.' << mega-lol

01:48:05 asciilifeform: the 'do-ocracy' does what it does best: does.

01:48:18 kakobrekla: wait whut, they diss usb but support wifi ?

01:48:30 asciilifeform: and usb.

01:48:36 kakobrekla: :D

01:49:36 adlai: why does chromium need to be incognito if it's an offline thingy

01:49:42 asciilifeform: offline lol

01:49:46 asciilifeform: it's a generic usb drive.

01:49:58 asciilifeform: packaging their turdware in this form gives it a 'hardware' perfume.

01:50:02 adlai: "Secure Bitcoin Live USB key for offline transactions" (I didn't click the link, just reacting to the title)

01:50:09 asciilifeform: this is not an uncommon tactic among the lowest of the lowliest sc4mz0rz

01:50:24 adlai: you must really love mycelium entropy

01:50:45 adlai: http://mycelium.com/entropy

01:50:46 assbot: Entropy :: Mycelium ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61H0m )

01:50:57 asciilifeform: ^ the sram thing

01:51:06 kakobrekla: adlai there are pages of bashing of that thing in logs

01:51:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60794 @ 0.00034723 = 21.1095 BTC [-] {2}

01:51:24 asciilifeform: pete's article: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt

01:51:26 assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )

01:51:41 asciilifeform: (not sure why he turned that thread into an article, but there it is)

01:52:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9646 @ 0.0003455 = 3.3327 BTC [-]

01:52:48 kakobrekla: for adlai ?

01:53:04 *: adlai found it already from search.b-a, reading

01:53:24 kakobrekla: fuck that search, it finds too many things!

01:54:29 adlai: ddos it

01:54:37 kakobrekla: trice.

02:16:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, other users of 'opera' - which one do you use? the 1990s close-source turd? or the 'new, impr0v3d' idiocy that uses 'webkit' (chrome) rendering engine ?

02:16:54 asciilifeform: *closed

02:17:54 asciilifeform: re: dbus (part ii)

02:17:56 kakobrekla: 'presto' sucks.

02:18:08 asciilifeform: the poettering strategy is not an enigma of any kind.

02:18:14 asciilifeform: they want universal dependence (yes)

02:18:29 asciilifeform: not enough to bake their crap into mainstream linux distos. needs to be in mainstream kernel.

02:18:42 asciilifeform: so the chaps 'building their own' distro are likewise stuck with it.

02:19:54 adlai: maybe my priorities are misplaced, but one huge problem I saw with the whole entropy thingy is... the printer

02:21:25 kakobrekla: well you get a new one without the wifi and when done printing blend it with Blendtec and throw dust in magma

02:21:56 kakobrekla: in 3 different vulcanos, just in case.

02:24:03 asciilifeform: whichever one of you said 'linux is a corpse, and systemd is a fungus growing on it' was correct.

02:24:11 asciilifeform: a living thing - would not tolerate this.

02:25:31 adlai: well, just to go off on a while tear here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho2d1HxtXfk

02:25:32 assbot: Terence McKenna on Mushrooms - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cwsnvy )

02:26:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have not actually pressed any F key in... uh. months ? << 'midnight commander' naturally. and i have f1-f12 mapped to useful things in 'emacs' as well. unlike (apparently) many emacs users, i don't treat my hands as an object of religious sacrifice.

02:26:31 adlai: amazingly, it looks as though these dongles are NOT encrypting the keys before sending them to the printer, so my fears aren't totally crazy

02:26:31 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:26:34 asciilifeform: my ctrl key is where the gods intended it to be (to the left of 'a') likewise.

02:27:45 asciilifeform: also helps to have f-keys in 'godly' position (to the left of 'ctrl' rather than on top of kbd)

02:27:53 adlai: what about ()

02:28:05 asciilifeform: []

02:28:29 *: adlai has () instead of <>, in dvorak, aka qwerty's WE

02:29:30 *: asciilifeform experimented with dvorak a few times over the years, found that he doesn't enter enough human language text to make the effort worthwhile

02:30:09 asciilifeform: it also doesn't help that most non-'model m' keyboards are not readily (visually) dvorakizable

02:30:32 asciilifeform: (why? the caps on the alphabetic rows are not identically shaped)

02:32:48 adlai: oh you'd actually rearrange the keys?

02:33:29 *: adlai learned dvorak on a rollup keyboard that couldn't be rearranged

02:33:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00034484 = 14.5867 BTC [-] {2}

02:34:37 adlai: the macbook pro I used at my last office job still boots into dvorak and has to manually be switched to qwerty, last I checked

02:43:09 BingoBoingo: !up Grumpy_01

02:43:15 BingoBoingo: Hello Grumpy_01

02:43:46 decimation: re: Opera << i use the webkit based one, probably offers little protection against firefox based attacks

02:45:09 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I said systemd was a fungus. I agree, I don't see how this kind of thing is tolerable. Politically, I think Linus is up against a wall to some degree, because he knows redhat, inc pays for most of the kernel 'zeks'

02:46:23 cazalla: if you have full blown autism, nintendo run the best events, you don't have say shit or look at anyone to collect the promo items they give away

02:46:38 decimation: lol

02:46:53 decimation: nintendo has pretty much gone downhill since the 'NES'

02:48:14 decimation: cazalla: did you go to "electronica"?

02:48:38 cazalla: decimation, what's that? a clear no btw

02:49:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18150 @ 0.00034456 = 6.2538 BTC [-]

02:49:33 decimation: http://www.electronica.de/ << the 'world's biggest' electronics trade fair. probably not consumer or games focused though

02:49:34 assbot: electronica - Electronics trade fair for components, systems and applications ... ( http://bit.ly/1zH4U52 )

02:51:32 cazalla: decimation, why would you ask me if i went there? i don't get it

02:51:58 decimation: well, I guess I assumed you went to some kind of trade show with nintendo present.

02:52:48 cazalla: mats_cd03: too quick to burn bridges is all i'm saying <<< i gave him the opportunity but then he started with the gaw miners, altcoins are legit cause he made money with it

02:53:14 cazalla: decimation, nah it was this http://www.nintendo.com.au/index.php?action=news&nid=3580

02:53:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CwvMdG )

02:55:34 cazalla: dunno why they even had reps there, gameboy picks up the items automatically over wireless, they could've just left their gameboy on the counter and had customers walk up to it, do a 360 and then walk out the shops

02:56:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51300 @ 0.00034592 = 17.7457 BTC [+]

02:56:31 cazalla: gameboy app tells me there were 9 people there but i only saw the reps so like i said, it's an autists dream come true

02:57:41 ben_vulpes: is the dosser of the uncloaked still around?

02:58:25 kakobrekla: i can try the waters

02:59:03 ben_vulpes: if you're bored :P

03:03:05 kakobrekla: he is.

03:04:16 decimation: apparently our friend's promise to 'move on' was not to be taken seriously

03:07:44 ben_vulpes: promises by someone out of the wot are to be taken seriously? :P

03:07:59 kakobrekla: ;;gettrust assbot slush

03:07:59 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user slush: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=slush | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=slush | Rated since: Thu Nov 11 10:34:28 2010

03:08:23 kakobrekla: one of the two co-authors of trezor

03:10:57 kakobrekla: apparently thing doesnt jump anymore but spreads bw

03:13:52 decimation: what do you mean kakobrekla?

03:14:50 kakobrekla: as far as i gathered it was ddosing one at a time before ratpoison - it jumped to the last one joining. now it just adds to stack.

03:15:12 kakobrekla: these are my findings from very short time of fiddling with the thing so i may be off.

03:16:31 adlai: why wasn't this one on bitbet? https://www.facebook.com/stephenhawking/posts/735607129859720

03:16:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zH6OT8 )

03:19:24 kakobrekla: cause you didnt write it?

03:19:44 kakobrekla: idk, wild speculation here

03:22:20 *: adlai types too fast to have written that bet

03:26:43 ben_vulpes: > written about in regards to

03:26:44 ben_vulpes: mhm.

03:27:34 ben_vulpes: salud RagnarsBitch

03:29:01 kakobrekla: Shabnam Ansar i don't understand a lot of stuff you say, nevertheless i read them all... you are just so amazing n my role model

03:29:01 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:29:18 kakobrekla: Dear Shabnam Ansar: galdgtaglkg kglafk alfalfkfkfkfkfka

03:29:23 decimation: amusing: http://aworkinglibrary.com/writing/the-conformity-of-lawns/index.html << " As William Levitt himself promised his government patrons, “No man who owns his own house and lot can be a Communist. He has too much to do.” He meant this quite literally." << the nature of modern us 'home ownership'

03:29:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zH7S9s )

03:39:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6526 @ 0.00034592 = 2.2575 BTC [+]

04:08:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92800 @ 0.00034443 = 31.9631 BTC [-] {2}

04:19:37 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/coinjar-relocate-from-australia-to-uk-no-longer-charging-gst/

04:19:38 assbot: CoinJar Relocate From Australia To UK, No Longer Charging GST | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1v97qBV )

04:33:20 pete_dushenski: cazalla aus has 10% gst?!

04:33:23 pete_dushenski: oof

04:35:03 cazalla: pete_dushenski, ya didn't know this?

04:35:23 pete_dushenski: hm nope

04:35:31 cazalla: there is talk of raising it due to budget shortfalls despite the government that brough it in promising the legislation would never allow for such a thing to occur

04:35:33 pete_dushenski: is there also province/state tax on top?

04:36:09 pete_dushenski: a yes, typical "cross my heart" shit

04:36:26 pete_dushenski: have to balance bookz!

04:36:26 cazalla: yeah, stamp tax, land tax, fuck you for even being born tax type shit

04:36:58 pete_dushenski: i was reading up on the russian tax code this weekend and it's completely fucking reasonable.

04:37:04 pete_dushenski: for a european country

04:37:08 decimation: cazalla: do you have to pay income tax too?

04:37:31 cazalla: and then your local council strong arms you on top of all that as well

04:37:33 pete_dushenski: decimation show me a country with no income tax that's not in affrica

04:37:43 cazalla: ^^^

04:37:48 decimation: that's hardcore, what are the marginal rates?

04:38:14 pete_dushenski: i now know a few off the top of my head

04:38:21 decimation: some us states charge upwards of 10% 'sales tax'

04:38:22 cazalla: decimation, for individual, see https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/ for companies like google, 0

04:38:25 assbot: Individual income tax rates | Australian Taxation Office ... ( http://bit.ly/1FH732G )

04:38:25 pete_dushenski: germany's top bracket: 45%

04:38:35 pete_dushenski: us': 40%

04:38:45 decimation: well, those are high income brackets though

04:38:48 pete_dushenski: canada's is 55% (in quebec)

04:38:56 pete_dushenski: russia, get this, 13%

04:39:09 cazalla: defence and welfare are the two biggest costs

04:39:36 decimation: wow 37% over $A 80k?

04:39:39 decimation: that's hardcore

04:39:47 pete_dushenski: russia has other taxes, like vat of 18% and a special welfare tax of 25% on first $14k earned

04:40:14 decimation: pete_dushenski: that's really cheap

04:40:52 decimation: so anyone who isn't 'living on welfare' in australia is a government employee

04:41:18 decimation: I'm okay with a high VAT/GST/sales tax if it comes with no income tax

04:41:42 cazalla: decimation, something like 1 in 5 aussies gets some type of welfare, you can get disability for a sore foot if you are determined

04:41:42 pete_dushenski: that's pretty much what russia has

04:42:15 decimation: cazalla: I assume they all have gov't paid pensions too right

04:42:22 pete_dushenski: anyways, this dovetails into today's article: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/30/agency-goes-to-the-active-or-how-putin-doesnt-understand-how-the-world-works/

04:42:23 assbot: Agency Goes To The Active, Or How Putin Doesn’t Understand How The World Works. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1FH7jyF )

04:42:42 pete_dushenski: rusofiles please to feedback ^

04:43:10 pete_dushenski: keep in mind i'm but a lowly observer... from the clouds

04:43:41 pete_dushenski: basically goes over the many ways putin has figured out capitalism better than almost anyone else.

04:44:17 pete_dushenski: and how to align himself with a religion, and how to politik, and how to generally run a nation state (at least one full of russians)

04:44:35 cazalla: decimation, of course, meanwhile they upped the pension age to 70 from the year 2035, of course, no money for pensions will be available to pay such a thing by then

04:44:50 decimation: well to be fair, putin can live off of massive mineral wealth to some degree

04:45:01 decimation: of course with the price of oil tanking...

04:45:23 pete_dushenski: so the ruble slides with it

04:45:26 decimation: cazalla: that's worse than the us

04:46:06 pete_dushenski: but he's still king of the roost. low debt, plenty of other coal and gas to offset oil, gold

04:46:33 pete_dushenski: decimation but he's definitely in a fortunate position to start with

04:46:55 decimation: actually I was thinking while gasing up my car today... if you add up the fact that usg is funded to a big degree by printed dollars, and that now opec has decided to flood the market with oil to kill off drilling in north america, you realize that you have 'oil printing' vs. 'dollar printing'

04:47:20 pete_dushenski: last one to the bottom loses!

04:47:24 decimation: well, it's hard not to be 'fortunate' when you own like 11% of the world's land

04:47:45 pete_dushenski: canada is in a similar position in the sense of resource wealth

04:47:50 decimation: if he just manages to keep territory, he wins

04:48:05 pete_dushenski: and canada has far more debt, more tax, but more "services"

04:48:28 pete_dushenski: well, canada doesn't have vat, just 5% gst

04:48:32 pete_dushenski: that's it

04:48:32 decimation: well, russia is beating back canada's claims to the arctic, and seemingly doing a good job at it

04:48:56 pete_dushenski: canada can only claim a la obama: with words

04:49:08 pete_dushenski: no powah

04:49:17 decimation: heh yeah. I think they give guns to some of the eskimos too

04:49:32 pete_dushenski: the northwest passage is russia's or china's for the taking

04:50:01 pete_dushenski: lol ya, guns for hunting moose and rabbits

04:50:40 decimation: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-rangers-the-thin-red-line-patrolling-our-harshest-terrain-1.1414341

04:50:41 assbot: Canadian Rangers: the thin red line patrolling our harshest terrain - Canada - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1FH7xpm )

04:50:53 decimation: lol they have lee-enfields

04:50:58 pete_dushenski: what a moustache!

04:51:49 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/539268825552670720

04:51:52 assbot: The next big court event is in Hong Kong. If we win my legal team will seek $2billion in damages for the unlawful destruction of /hashtag/Megaupload?src=hash

04:52:11 pete_dushenski: speaking of nz, has anyone witnessed the haka live?

04:52:16 decimation: don't get me wrong, lee-enfields are fine guns, but canada has the skills and money to invest in a more modern arctic gun, and apparently they can't afford it or don't want to

04:52:24 pete_dushenski: not "anyone" rather "anyone here"

04:52:43 decimation: I've seen something that is supposed to be like it when I was in hawaii

04:52:47 pete_dushenski: canada doesn't fund it's military excessively

04:53:16 pete_dushenski: like at a luau?

04:53:29 decimation: yeah

04:53:39 decimation: they had 'dances from around greater polynesia'

04:54:46 pete_dushenski: heh pretty neat eh?

04:55:14 decimation: yeah the most unusual part is the tongue-work

04:56:38 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtE4t3Alug

04:56:39 assbot: All Blacks vs France mean haka 2011 World cup winners - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FH7KJh )

04:56:56 pete_dushenski: even the rugbiers get that tongue in there

04:59:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00034643 = 19.7119 BTC [+] {3}

05:03:53 BingoBoingo: !up xinxiwang

05:03:59 BingoBoingo: Hello xinxiwang

05:04:05 xinxiwang: thanks.

05:04:06 xinxiwang: Hello

05:04:30 xinxiwang: long time no see

05:06:13 BingoBoingo: How have things been recently?

05:08:17 xinxiwang: great. How are you?

05:10:45 BingoBoingo: Oh, busy

05:24:58 asciilifeform: decimation: i don't get it. with what 'modern' thing would you have them replace the 'enfields', and why ?

05:32:39 pete_dushenski: right. canada knows that new=bad

05:32:55 pete_dushenski: thus cf18 fighter jets are still going strong

05:33:25 pete_dushenski: canada also relies largely on southern neighbour's big stick

05:34:45 pete_dushenski: "A US man has been handed a US$500,000 fine for selling the StealthGenie malware in the first prosecution of a mobile spyware slinger. Police collared Hammad Akbar, 31, in September after he allegedly sold the malware to an undercover agent in 2012."

05:34:59 asciilifeform: serious technical question. how exactly might one improve on a 1890s rifle in the given application (almost never fired; when fired - typically, at large land animals (hence, want full sized cartridge); extreme cold; etc

05:35:20 pete_dushenski: i wonder what they're going to slap the dogecoin android miner guy with. 1 trillion doge!

05:35:47 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform with electronix?

05:36:08 asciilifeform: with death ray.

05:36:43 pete_dushenski: mounted on mooseback

05:36:57 asciilifeform: 'howdah.'

05:37:34 pete_dushenski: 'hihowareyah'

05:37:47 asciilifeform: ;;google howdah pistol

05:37:48 gribble: Howdah pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howdah_pistol; Pedersoli Howdah Hunter 20-Ga. Pistol : Cabela's: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Howdah-Hunter-Ga-Pistol/740261.uts; American Guns: Howdah Pistol Reveal : Video : Discovery Channel: http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/american-guns/videos/howdah-pistol-reveal.htm

05:38:57 pete_dushenski: heh or that

05:39:09 pete_dushenski: i was thinking more along the lines of...

05:39:14 pete_dushenski: ;;google what makes the red man red

05:39:15 gribble: Disney's Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red ? - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_at9dOElQk; Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red (English) - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7yE8TKUB_M; What Made the Red Man Red? - DisneyWiki: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F

05:44:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4210 @ 0.00034947 = 1.4713 BTC [+]

05:45:42 decimation: asciilifeform: well, what about a rifle system that was designed from the ground up to work in very cold conditions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare

05:45:43 assbot: Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1rJSSJh )

05:46:17 decimation: my point was less about the enfields and more about the 'barely-exists' nature of canada's military, when compared to potential rivals in the arctic

05:47:07 pete_dushenski: the area to be protected is simply too large given the population of the country

05:47:40 pete_dushenski: so, why bother?

05:47:53 decimation: well, because maybe they can charge gst on chinese tankers or whatever

05:49:06 pete_dushenski: lol

05:49:19 pete_dushenski: or canada can choose not to spend a dime protecting it

05:49:32 pete_dushenski: and charge china gst for as long as china wants to play nice.

05:50:20 decimation: yeah, it will be interesting to see how that all ends up

05:50:33 decimation: at any rate, I'm off to bed, night all

05:50:35 pete_dushenski: canada is just choosing the path of least resistance and will continue to do so

05:50:40 pete_dushenski: cheers

05:52:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00034827 = 10.8312 BTC [-] {3}

06:00:08 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/539297746084442112

06:00:09 assbot: Evry btc company needs a /VitalikButerin or /gavinandresen . /Cancoin has /lastcanal , lead architect & heady genius single handedly winning

06:00:29 pete_dushenski: every btc company needs more scam!

06:00:37 pete_dushenski: truer words...

06:14:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00035053 = 7.5714 BTC [+] {2}

06:27:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25311 @ 0.00034181 = 8.6516 BTC [-]

06:30:53 BingoBoingo: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/bosnian-community-in-st-louis-outraged-over-fatal-hammer-attack/article_9f15bf49-c8b7-5bc3-8671-ac291f666084.html

06:30:55 assbot: Bosnian community in St. Louis outraged over fatal hammer attack in Bevo Mill neighborhood : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQzS0t )

06:31:10 BingoBoingo: ^ ?I don?t know why this is happening to Bosnians. We could go around and shoot people, too, but we just want peace.?

06:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.0003476 = 27.0085 BTC [+] {2}

07:48:06 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/1049/silver-to-fall-under-15-oz-before-december-27th/ dude this bet...

07:48:07 assbot: BitBet - Silver to fall under $15/oz before December 27th :: 8.63 B (52%) on Yes, 8.08 B (48%) on No | closed 3 hours 31 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/12cCAxh )

07:48:12 mircea_popescu: one of the more wow upsets on bitbet.

07:50:00 BingoBoingo: Everything is crashing

07:50:13 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/qntra-s-qntr-november-2014-statement/

07:50:17 assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12cD3PO )

07:50:43 cazalla: prolly shitcan the coinroll advert

07:53:00 mircea_popescu: yeah, as a general policy it's ok to take per-conversion deals with things that for whatever good reason sell themselves.

07:53:16 mircea_popescu: but with stuff in oversaturated novelty markets... let em pay cpm.

07:57:36 mircea_popescu: cazalla did it actually run the whole month ?

07:58:08 BingoBoingo: It came into being mid month

07:58:49 BingoBoingo: Oh, dunno that it even had two weeks

08:00:19 cazalla: mircea_popescu, no, about 1/2 the month if that

08:00:38 mircea_popescu: aha.

08:01:07 cazalla: was the 20th so not even 2 weeks but still

08:01:33 mircea_popescu: so wait, out of the 10k uniques quantcast reports for a whole month that leaves like 4k people, of which ~80 clicked ?

08:01:41 mircea_popescu: are you fucking shitting me, you're getting 2% ctrs ?!

08:01:52 mircea_popescu: this is what, 100x gawker ? jesus this thing is sweet.

08:01:53 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/002MQAA.txt )

08:01:53 BingoBoingo: !b 2

08:02:37 mircea_popescu: CTR hasn't been over 1% since like 1998]

08:03:48 cazalla: pssh, some of my adsense sites did way better than that but every fkn link was adsense

08:04:29 mircea_popescu: im not talking here for whatever made-for-x astroturf

08:05:04 mircea_popescu: just, you know, a newspaper.

08:05:09 cazalla: i know but point is, CTR could be 100% but who cares if it didn't convert to a paying customer, total revenue this month = 0

08:05:25 mircea_popescu: not the publisher's job to make the sale.

08:06:44 cazalla: yes, so i vote we remove the advert and offer spots per cpm

08:06:57 mircea_popescu: you want to be on qntra, you pay to be on qntra. let all the coin* sites have the "we'll do your job for you" deals.

08:07:21 mircea_popescu: i don't think we even bother selling it until it shows great numbers and they come bangin' on the door.

08:07:39 mircea_popescu: course that raises the problem of wtf are great numbers.

08:08:26 cazalla: just charge in proportion to current numbers, increase as great numbers arrive

08:08:57 cazalla: maybe i'll whack up a sponsorship page outlining the demographics per quantcast

08:09:07 mircea_popescu: problem is like this : advertising is association. think of it like a woman (the publisher) getting married (the advertiser).

08:09:28 mircea_popescu: now, the time flows inversely, because these things improve with age

08:09:45 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, take a case like eva peron : prostitute at 15, singer/dancer at 17,

08:09:50 mircea_popescu: would you want to marry her at 20 ?

08:09:59 mircea_popescu: unless you're peron, she's gonna be a waitress.

08:10:24 cazalla: 6 months in BA and you're singing don't cry for me Argentina

08:10:30 mircea_popescu: lol

08:10:48 mircea_popescu: these people are beyond fucking clueless btw, im half tempted to write an article.

08:11:06 mircea_popescu: cazalla btw, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/coindesk.com

08:11:07 assbot: coindesk.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJp1A )

08:11:08 mircea_popescu: gave up ?

08:11:41 cazalla: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/cryptocoinsnews.com

08:11:43 assbot: cryptocoinsnews.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJEtA )

08:12:20 cazalla: i was going to attribute traffic drop to 2014 being somewhat of a write off but ccn is up and up so perhaps some penguin/panda styled penalty on coindesk, who knows

08:12:23 BingoBoingo: Coindesk still publishes text..

08:13:44 mircea_popescu: isn't ccn mostly run as an mfa ?

08:14:42 cazalla: yeah, various authors so there is your cheap content to publish constantly

08:17:45 cazalla: so what is the solution/plan, the site is going into its third month, it would be nice to generate some revenue even if it is only a small amount

08:19:30 mircea_popescu: why ?

08:19:52 mircea_popescu: what i mean specifically : the site is generating excellent revenue as it is. none of which is monetary.

08:20:07 mircea_popescu: the conversion is very expensive, and not really necessary, so why bother.

08:23:16 cazalla: because there comes a point where i can make more working mcdonalds and using mcbucks to buy btc instead of qntra to btc for my efforts

08:24:51 cazalla: it's not an immediate need, looking more towards long term, do i look back after a year and think yes, on a per hour basis, this earned more btc than turning my mcbucks to bitcoin

08:25:09 mircea_popescu: cazalla just sell some shares neh ?

08:26:08 cazalla: that's like sacrificing long term for right now though

08:26:16 mircea_popescu: what i mean is : qntra is a bitcoin property. if bitcoin does well and qntra does well, it's not possible in a year for it to not be worth btc.

08:26:34 mircea_popescu: if you seek insurance against bitcoin doing well but qntra doing poorly, you can rebalance your shares-btc holdings proportions

08:34:03 mircea_popescu: http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/new-sony-films-pirated-in-wake-of-hack-attack-1201367036/

08:34:04 assbot: Advertisement ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2qyOX )

08:34:05 mircea_popescu: ahem.

08:34:17 mircea_popescu: ew what the shit variety.

08:34:25 mircea_popescu: dude the world's gone to shit.

08:34:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93466 @ 0.00034163 = 31.9308 BTC [-] {2}

08:36:11 mircea_popescu: ?The theft of Sony Pictures Entertainment content is a criminal matter, and we are working closely with law enforcement to address it,? a Sony spokeswoman said in a statement to Variety.

08:36:47 mircea_popescu: apparently mpaa is doing so well in its war with the internet, it reminds one of the glory of the us military in the middle and far east.

08:37:36 BingoBoingo: Indeed http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367056

08:37:37 assbot: Kim Dotcom avoids jail after bail hearing - National - NZ Herald News ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2rdA1 )

08:39:50 mircea_popescu: jaja he looks like such a total derp.

08:40:53 BingoBoingo: Totally, and this is who the MPAA is losing to.

08:41:11 mircea_popescu: not even, they got raped by some script kiddy group lol.

08:42:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00034145 = 12.9751 BTC [-] {2}

08:42:02 BingoBoingo: Sure in this latest loss, but they can't even win against the derps they catch.

08:42:42 mircea_popescu: "He said the US had refused to supply the content of the electronic communications on which many of the allegations were made."

08:42:46 mircea_popescu: dude i don't get this shit.

08:43:06 mircea_popescu: can i now impeach obama on the basis of some sex tapes in which he's fucking his daughters ?

08:43:12 mircea_popescu: im not releasing the tapes btw. so when's the impeachment ?

08:45:10 BingoBoingo: Don't see it happening later than august.

08:48:02 BingoBoingo: Once the new congress comes in in January they'll probably find something to latch on to.

08:53:26 mircea_popescu: cazalla "*This includes a deduction of 175 words"

08:53:33 mircea_popescu: does that mean i have to substract 175 or not ?

08:54:18 mircea_popescu: the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ?

08:55:04 mircea_popescu: also

08:55:06 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6774+5927+1408+315+81

08:55:06 gribble: 14505

08:55:20 mircea_popescu: not 14541

08:55:47 mircea_popescu: a nm, dyslexia strikes again lol. 351

08:58:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00034219 = 12.1477 BTC [+] {2}

09:13:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66309 @ 0.000341 = 22.6114 BTC [-]

09:21:37 cazalla: mircea_popescu, it means i have already deducted what needed removing

09:21:44 mircea_popescu: cool.

09:21:51 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/qntra-sqntr-november-2014-statement/

09:21:52 assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7m2B0 )

09:25:34 cazalla: mircea_popescu: the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ? <<< will keep in mind for december

09:25:42 mircea_popescu: lol

09:26:10 mircea_popescu: it's so disonant for me, fucking summer over here. xmas is coming ? hum.

09:26:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00034257 = 3.3058 BTC [+]

09:28:41 cazalla: white xmas in romania?

09:29:08 mircea_popescu: always

09:31:01 mircea_popescu: http://live.coinbr.com/?mpsic=S.MPOE << monthly chart looks like a fucking coronary

09:31:02 assbot: CoinBr Live S.MPOE ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7nJ1a )

09:32:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90500 @ 0.00034087 = 30.8487 BTC [-] {2}

09:44:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30155 @ 0.00034016 = 10.2575 BTC [-] {2}

09:47:01 cazalla: still not a peep out of bitpay despite their promise that this years bitcoin black friday would be bigger than previous year

09:54:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65316 @ 0.00033898 = 22.1408 BTC [-] {2}

09:57:20 mircea_popescu: awww.

10:06:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46450 @ 0.00034602 = 16.0726 BTC [+] {2}

10:16:13 punkman: supposed to be winter here, a balmy 24 C

10:18:24 mircea_popescu: heh

10:25:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70939 @ 0.00033872 = 24.0285 BTC [-] {3}

10:33:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00033857 = 9.1075 BTC [-]

10:40:00 mircea_popescu: !t m s.qntr

10:40:00 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 7D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 30D: 0.00013514 / 0.00013792 / 0.00015 (4411 shares, 0.61 BTC)

10:40:10 mircea_popescu: lol the cuteness.

10:40:30 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 109786 * 0.00013792

10:40:31 gribble: 15.14168512

10:40:34 mircea_popescu: 15 btc mkt cap!

10:42:17 mircea_popescu: and one of those rare situations where there's more buyside than the whole equity, by a wide margin. even if you discount the penny offers.

10:59:07 punkman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30216638

10:59:08 assbot: BBC News - Vinyl record sales hit 18-year high ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSq84 )

11:00:25 mircea_popescu: anyone still has a tardstalk account ?

11:00:30 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ i can just see one of these donking off player funds in some degen moment

11:00:30 assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSNPZ )

11:00:40 mircea_popescu: me2.

11:01:53 cazalla: can't remember my tardstalk account pwd

11:12:06 cazalla: looks like matonis is a fan of qntra http://i.imgur.com/vnavBv4.png

11:12:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1waWhC2 )

11:14:11 mircea_popescu: how much stock you gonna put in twitter lists.

11:14:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27480 @ 0.00034541 = 9.4919 BTC [+] {2}

11:15:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7389 @ 0.00034622 = 2.5582 BTC [+]

11:17:54 cazalla: not much considering i'm still waiting to be unbanned for making violent threats which i did not even make

11:18:29 cazalla: least they can do is unban, allow me to make threats, reapply ban

11:25:51 mircea_popescu: lol

11:25:58 mircea_popescu: care less, live longer.

11:51:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00034543 = 15.7171 BTC [-]

11:55:17 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-12-2014#939313 < of all people, you should only tolerate tax rates up to 10%

11:55:17 assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 04:41:18; decimation: I'm okay with a high VAT/GST/sales tax if it comes with no income tax

11:56:25 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitbet-sbbet-november-2014-statement/

11:56:25 assbot: BitBet (S.BBET) November 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHoTTd )

11:56:26 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^

11:57:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38154 @ 0.00034079 = 13.0025 BTC [-] {2}

11:57:27 mircea_popescu: tl;dr : best month since may 2013

12:00:37 nubbins`: ooo

12:01:36 mircea_popescu: course may-april 2013 15 btc was like 50 bux.

12:07:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18011 @ 0.00034622 = 6.2358 BTC [+]

12:07:30 mircea_popescu: so i was thinking, aren't these dating sites and dating generally completely inequitable ?

12:07:55 mircea_popescu: why should companies not be allowed to only hire white people, but dudes dating be allowed to only date women ? or straight people ? or w/e ?

12:08:12 mircea_popescu: i hope the rainbow party doesn't stop with the gay marriage victory and goes to the core of the problem.

12:08:17 adlai: "this is not even my final form!" - socialism

12:08:17 mircea_popescu: equal fucking opportunity dating!

12:08:29 mircea_popescu: one shouldn't be rejected merely because he is allegedly of the wrong gender.

12:08:35 mircea_popescu: adlai lol quite.

12:10:33 adlai: it's funny/perfectlylogical how the biggest dating site is also the biggest gun running site

12:11:14 punkman: which one is that?

12:11:17 adlai: well, maybe not gun *running*, but it's definitely a brisker trade than SR

12:11:22 adlai: facebook

12:12:03 mircea_popescu: adlai yep. yet somehow that never gets mentioned.

12:12:43 mircea_popescu: "feds close down 5 dedicated bitcoin-based drug trading sites, accounting together for <1% of online drug trade. the principal drug trading hub online, facebook, remains unaffected"

12:13:12 mircea_popescu: cazalla ^ perspective for teh next time lol. it didn't occur to me back then

12:13:25 punkman: topix is pretty big with drug sellers

12:14:03 mircea_popescu: o is it /

12:14:06 punkman: or rather was

12:14:14 punkman: http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/2/4795430/amidst-silk-roads-takedown-topix-still-a-haven-for-drug-dealers

12:14:15 assbot: Silk Road may be gone, but Topix is still a haven for drug dealers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmhIR )

12:14:24 mircea_popescu: aha

12:14:41 mircea_popescu: so they even know about, just, won't mention the bezzle corps.

12:14:58 nubbins`: sms is full of drug dealers

12:15:02 nubbins`: but it's decentralized

12:15:51 mircea_popescu: doies tribune still own topix btw ?

12:17:19 punkman: example: http://www.topix.com/forum/health/back-pain/T5CM84VAP8M78R86U

12:17:22 assbot: Oxy pain meds in NYC - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15Mmr33 )

12:18:27 punkman: http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/montreal-qc/T0U013KMGTL5BU2PV

12:18:30 assbot: Oxycodone In Montreal - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmuvA )

12:18:42 mircea_popescu: stil lthis entire "pills are drugs nao" online kiddie kick ?

12:19:18 adlai: iirc pain pills are the most-addicted-to drug in bezzland, followed by mood pills

12:19:33 mircea_popescu: Topix's main user base consists of posters from small cities and towns in the United States, particularly those with several thousand or hundred residents. Few people from major American cities use Topix. Topix has a large following in Appalachia, rural areas in the Southern United States, and the Ozarks. Discussions that traditionally took place in person in rural areas began to be posted on Topix. Chris Tolles, the c

12:19:33 mircea_popescu: hief executive of Topix LLC, said that Topix is very popular in "the feud states".

12:19:38 mircea_popescu: ahaha check that shit out. i had no idea.

12:20:00 mircea_popescu: adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone.

12:20:18 adlai: same way you can be "addicted" to heroin?

12:20:48 punkman: those idiots actually try to smoke or IV pills

12:20:51 adlai: you don't have to own a needle or a crack pipe to be an addict

12:21:44 punkman: or all the retarded kids that crush up ritalin and snort it

12:21:48 mircea_popescu: the oxycodone aka heorin argument sounds to me like a hipster's bike aka armored persone carrier argument

12:21:53 mircea_popescu: sure, they both got wheels. o.O

12:22:27 mircea_popescu: punkman back when i was that age, idiots snorted powdered sugar, to pretend like they're whatever.

12:22:34 mircea_popescu: movie stars i guess.

12:23:02 mircea_popescu: visotsky, whatever.

12:23:22 cazalla: i'll stick to nutmeg and banana skins

12:23:53 mircea_popescu: cazalla you know most of not-totally-poor africa makes brisk trade in fake papyrus made out of banana peels ?

12:24:21 mircea_popescu: they paint that shit and sell it to idiot whitey by the barge.

12:24:47 cazalla: i would not know this, i thought jenkem was only export

12:25:31 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone. <<< uhhhh.... o.O

12:26:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59375 @ 0.00033786 = 20.0604 BTC [-] {2}

12:27:05 nubbins`: "once the initial buzz or hit has worn down, most addicts report that their is little to no difference between H or Oxycodone"

12:27:36 mircea_popescu: what do these holy users of all-knowing importance report of the difference between windows and ubuntu ?

12:27:47 mircea_popescu: i totally care what a bunch of fucktards report, it's like, tantamout to science this.

12:28:26 adlai: well being addicted to the rush is a whole separate beast

12:28:28 mircea_popescu: "most people report sun and moon visibly the same size to naked eye"

12:28:57 adlai: "most people blinded by mysterious occurence at noon. more news at 1pm"

12:29:23 mircea_popescu: wait, no, i got better. "most eaters report no substandial difference between i-cant-believe-its-not-butter and butter"

12:29:39 nubbins`: let me try another tack

12:29:47 mircea_popescu: i was having fun with this one ;/

12:30:11 mircea_popescu: i was saving the "their" even!

12:30:15 nubbins`: you have no fucking idea how people can get addicted to snorting opiates, compressing a controlled 24-hour release into about half an hour?

12:30:19 nubbins`: lel @ their ;/

12:30:40 nubbins`: their is three errors in this sentance

12:30:46 mircea_popescu: oxycodone is an "opiate" in the sense your average 300 lb social sciences postgrad is a "woman"

12:31:06 mircea_popescu: ie, nominally.

12:31:09 adlai: what are we even arguing about though?

12:31:12 mircea_popescu: NOT functionally.

12:31:26 adlai: there are still poppy tea addicts today, too

12:31:28 nubbins`: hm.

12:31:29 adlai: so what?

12:31:33 nubbins`: would you call morphine an opiate?

12:31:40 mircea_popescu: yes.

12:31:52 nubbins`: suppose i told you that oxycodone is 1.5x the strength?

12:31:53 mircea_popescu: i definitely can see how one can be addicted to morphine.

12:32:24 mircea_popescu: on what, molar basis ?

12:32:44 adlai: probably binding affinity?

12:33:03 nubbins`: i've erased enough chem from my brain to not be able to definitively say "yes" to that, but i mean 10mg of morphine = 6.67mg of oxy

12:33:26 nubbins`: http://globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm

12:33:28 assbot: Opioid converter, opioid conversions, pain management. ... ( http://bit.ly/15MndwI )

12:33:37 nubbins`: "equianalgesic"

12:34:01 mircea_popescu: nubbins` they're rather close anyway, so mass works nearly good enough

12:34:14 nubbins`: well there ya go.

12:34:24 nubbins`: anyway, with orally-taken morphine as a "1"

12:34:34 nubbins`: oxys are a 1.5, IV/IM morphine is a 3

12:35:00 adlai: these are child opiates though, let's compare them to fentanyl

12:35:09 mircea_popescu: anyway, that's more of a cargo-cultapproach to this science ("i know it's strong because this is how the doctors use it")

12:35:14 nubbins`: fentanyl is in the 50-100 range

12:35:20 mircea_popescu: as best i can see, oxycodone is more like codeine than heroin.

12:35:38 nubbins`: codeine's listed as 1/10

12:35:47 *: nubbins` shrugs

12:36:00 nubbins`: i can only imagine there are endless clinical trials behind these numbers

12:36:16 nubbins`: but anyway.

12:36:23 nubbins`: people get addicted to oxy like nothing else

12:36:32 mircea_popescu: yes, but geared towards a different set of objectives.

12:36:37 nubbins`: it's available everywhere -- WAY more readily so than street opiates

12:36:43 mircea_popescu: let me put it this way : make a buffet with 10 lb bowls of pure powder.

12:36:49 mircea_popescu: one of each substance you test

12:36:56 mircea_popescu: see what % usage you meet.

12:37:10 mircea_popescu: how many people will be snorting your oxycodone when heroin directly available right next to it ?

12:37:23 adlai: can we fill the third bowl with salvinorin B?

12:37:32 nubbins`: HEH

12:37:40 nubbins`: adlai salv A only

12:37:44 adlai: *ethoxymethyl ether

12:37:56 nubbins`: mircea_popescu sure, but this is not an argument against oxy's addictive qualities

12:38:08 mircea_popescu: right...

12:38:12 mircea_popescu: because logic ?

12:38:28 nubbins`: people will choose filet mignon over a big mac, doesn't mean they're not picking up mcd's every day on the ride home

12:38:41 mircea_popescu: "i'm in love with X, manifested by the fact that whenever there's no naked swimsuit models splayed on my bedspread, i fuck X"

12:38:55 mircea_popescu: nubbins` so then are they fucking addicted to the big mac lawl.

12:39:03 nubbins`: love != addiction

12:39:06 adlai: there are also reasons outside pharmacology

12:39:07 mircea_popescu: orly.

12:39:09 nubbins`: ^ (let's see what tangent this spawns)

12:39:35 *: adlai wouldn't be surprised if many americans addicted to oxy, never took a "real drug" before

12:39:38 nubbins`: ^

12:39:49 nubbins`: most of the addicts here are on pharms

12:39:54 adlai: it's the gateway pill!

12:39:56 adlai: that, or xanax

12:39:58 mircea_popescu: "oxycodone : how the idiot generation is getting all the drawbacks of opioid dosing with none of the benefits"

12:40:06 mircea_popescu: so much of contemporary us is all about being incredibly stupid...

12:40:07 nubbins`: there are benefits?

12:40:08 adlai: no, that's kratom

12:40:16 nubbins`: i mean, sure, if you're a musician

12:40:24 nubbins`: take up heroin, you'll make your best work

12:40:27 nubbins`: but otherwise?

12:40:40 mircea_popescu: nubbins` and if you're not a musician NOBODY WILL HEAR ABOUT IT

12:40:47 nubbins`: ^

12:40:50 mircea_popescu: still your best work, just, shitty & obscure. like you.

12:40:54 adlai: "I think the dark side of the moon is worth 100 dead kids" - maher

12:41:00 *: nubbins` claps

12:41:25 nubbins`: adlai incidentally i was in a buyer's club for salvia for a period of time

12:41:25 punkman: adlai: kratom's pretty interesting

12:41:37 nubbins`: mad bulk discounts

12:41:39 mircea_popescu: dude srsly, chewing treebark ?

12:42:02 mircea_popescu: shall there be no end of this "i smoke oregano the older kids sold to me as a mockery BECAUSE I ENJOY IT!"

12:42:05 nubbins`: srsly, lighting plants on fire and breathing the smoke? ;/

12:42:06 mircea_popescu: fucking denial of doom...

12:42:21 *: adlai has never tried verified salvia, the one time somebody brought over "salvia" it was more similar to expired mint leaves, and about as potent

12:42:24 mircea_popescu: let's all be ironic and smoke cow dung.

12:42:30 nubbins`: "Kratom behaves as a μ-opioid receptor"

12:42:31 nubbins`: :o

12:42:33 nubbins`: well til

12:42:37 mircea_popescu: adlai i had a bush in my garden

12:42:57 adlai: that's nothing, i had two in my white house

12:43:01 mircea_popescu: and no, i never fucking smoked it.

12:43:14 nubbins`: also incidentally, salvinorin is a kappa-opiod agonist

12:43:17 nubbins`: but not an opiate

12:43:22 adlai: salvia is like an anti-opiate

12:43:28 nubbins`: it's like an anti-drug

12:43:33 punkman: nubbins`: cup of kratom tea, great substitute for coffee

12:43:41 adlai: you take one hit bro and you're not addicted anymore, man, you can do anything you want

12:43:56 nubbins`: punkman: hit of 10x salvia extract, great substitute for a ten-strip of owsley acid

12:43:57 adlai: how is a cup of a mild opiate a great substitute for a mild stim

12:44:07 adlai: too much logic in here

12:44:09 *: adlai dogwalks

12:44:25 mircea_popescu: logic is a drug!

12:44:28 nubbins`: ^

12:44:36 punkman: adlai, it's also a stimulant in small doses

12:44:38 mircea_popescu: love is the logic antidrug

12:44:41 nubbins`: iirc salvinorin is actually the most potent naturally-occuring drug

12:44:49 mircea_popescu: and addiction is merely bioactive irony

12:44:53 adlai: "TV is the first electric drug... somebody else's trip, plus advertisements" - mckenna

12:44:54 nubbins`: heh

12:45:03 nubbins`: my cells are screaming in pain ironically

12:45:12 adlai: addiction is brilliant, for the plants

12:45:19 mircea_popescu: nubbins` they pretend like it's painful... but it's not.

12:45:22 mircea_popescu: ha-ha.

12:45:32 adlai: your brain cells LOVE addiction

12:45:39 adlai: maybe a few don't, but nobody listens to them anymore

12:45:50 mircea_popescu: my brain is almost entirely made of this later sort.

12:46:02 mircea_popescu: no black brain cells over here.

12:46:04 nubbins`: so you think

12:46:35 mircea_popescu: i kinda know, actually.

12:48:55 adlai: I guess nobody listens to you anymore! :P

12:49:09 mircea_popescu: totally.

12:49:24 mats_cd03: salvia is filthy

12:50:14 nubbins`: i'd paint it more as intensely bizarre

12:50:20 nubbins`: it's wholly unlike anything else

12:50:29 mats_cd03: felt like needles on my skin and dying

12:50:33 mats_cd03: nothx

12:50:36 nubbins`: heh.

12:50:47 nubbins`: i experienced complete synesthesia once on it

12:51:14 nubbins`: classical hallucinogens like lsd, psilo, etc will fuck with / change / alter your perceptions

12:51:22 nubbins`: "the carpet is moving" "the walls are bleeding" etc

12:51:59 nubbins`: salvia just drops you into another place entirely. you're not sitting on your bed looking at your bedside table, you're in the produce section of the grocery store watching people smell your colors

12:52:20 nubbins`: or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room

12:52:22 nubbins`: or w/e

12:52:36 mircea_popescu: eh get out.

12:52:42 *: nubbins` shrugs

12:52:55 nubbins`: i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia

12:52:58 mircea_popescu: takes a very impressionable sort. it's more you than it's it

12:53:00 nubbins`: i thought i did, but nope.

12:53:01 punkman: was a long time, but I can attest to that

12:53:09 nubbins`: mircea_popescu i vehemently disagree

12:53:13 mircea_popescu: and for that money, you could probably have the same results if you just sat on your back and watched the clouds go by long enough

12:53:19 nubbins`: bahaha

12:53:29 mats_cd03: ive never felt that fucked up on anything other than salvia

12:54:04 mats_cd03: and it will only be that one time in high school

12:54:06 nubbins`: mircea_popescu while i can't quantify my "impressionability", you're so far off-base here that i don't know where to begin

12:54:10 cazalla: i took 2 aspirin instead of 1 once upon a time

12:54:15 nubbins`: salvia puts you on fucking mars.

12:54:50 cazalla: i watched some guys have awful trips on salvia on youtube, you couldn't pay me to smoke that

12:54:52 mircea_popescu: nubbins` didn't put him on mars, what of that ?

12:55:31 punkman: can be hard to get the right dose

12:55:32 nubbins`: mircea_popescu the vaporization point of salvinorin is far higher than the temperature of the cherried, smouldering plant. you can quite easily "smoke it wrong".

12:55:50 nubbins`: correct method is to blast it with a butane torch while inhaling

12:56:04 mircea_popescu: some people get really elated watching theatre. heck, most 9yos spend the rest of the day doing weirdo dance move things after their first action movie experience.

12:56:07 nubbins`: otherwise, little to no effects, mostly uncomfortable physical feelings

12:56:22 mircea_popescu: "they're superman nao!"

12:56:27 *: nubbins` shakes head

12:56:55 mircea_popescu: doesn't this thing burn at all ?

12:57:00 nubbins`: if i'm parsing this correctly, you're equating a salvia high to a form of elevated excitement

12:57:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00033985 = 8.8361 BTC [+]

12:57:13 mircea_popescu: seems to me if high temperature is required the correct approach is not a butane torch but a thermostat hotplate.

12:58:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00034054 = 21.7775 BTC [+] {2}

12:58:16 mircea_popescu: nubbins` im merely bringing the argument that an inclination to be impressed with what one sees and a tendency to get excited about what's directly seen is more a thing of youth than a thing of humanity.

12:58:36 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: certainly, and there's no argument on that point.

12:58:46 mircea_popescu: in the same vein with "i won a million bucks in the reader's digest mailing, look!"

12:58:57 nubbins`: however, i'd taken relatively large doses of several different hallucinogens by the time i discovered salvia

12:59:11 mircea_popescu: well if there's no argument on that point, then there's no argument on the "watch the clouds" point either

12:59:14 mircea_popescu: they being the same.

12:59:15 nubbins`: and i knew precisely what hallucination vs impression/excitability was

12:59:43 mircea_popescu: exactly, huh ?

12:59:51 nubbins`: and i'm telling you that about 20 seconds after you inhale a lungful of salvia smoke, everything you see and hear and feel around you is just GONE and replaced with something else.

12:59:53 mircea_popescu: let's translate this logic.

13:00:06 nubbins`: like, completely gone.

13:00:11 mircea_popescu: "i know exactly how garza scams, having watched a number of his scams in trhe past, and i can assure you this one's legit"

13:00:11 nubbins`: not "o i feel funny"

13:00:13 mircea_popescu: something like that ?

13:00:20 nubbins`: but "o, i am physically in a different place"

13:01:40 nubbins`: or "o, it feels like my jaw has detached from my head and is wrapping tightly around my neck, coil after unending coil"

13:01:56 nubbins`: or "o, how long was i out? who broke all this glass?"

13:02:07 mircea_popescu: this happens to me naturally anyway.

13:02:14 nubbins`: well i guess you don't need to smoke salvia

13:02:16 mircea_popescu: !s "how long was i asleep"

13:02:16 assbot: 0 results for '"how long was i asleep"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22how+long+was+i+asleep%22

13:02:22 mircea_popescu: eh gtfo.

13:02:33 nubbins`: can't, i'm a lord or smth

13:02:40 mircea_popescu: not you lol, assbot

13:02:45 nubbins`: HEH

13:02:48 mircea_popescu: i know i've said it dozens of times! THOUSANDS!

13:03:03 *: danielpbarron has smoked salvia

13:03:09 nubbins`: hyperbole aside, i actually cannot recommend that anyone try smoking salvia

13:03:16 nubbins`: i don't want the responsibility

13:03:29 mircea_popescu: "you forgot your panties in my bed" "but i don't wear panties ?" "oh shit... um..."

13:04:17 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so how was it ?

13:04:40 danielpbarron: the most strange experience of my life

13:04:47 nubbins`: ^

13:05:03 nubbins`: <+nubbins`> i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia

13:05:04 danielpbarron: and i've done dmt lsd and shrooms

13:05:41 mircea_popescu: fine, what do i know.

13:05:47 danielpbarron: felt like i became the hardwood floor i was lying on

13:05:50 nubbins`: less than you think you do 8)

13:05:55 punkman: someone sent mp some salvia :P

13:06:05 nubbins`: <+nubbins`> or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room

13:06:08 punkman: *send

13:06:22 nubbins`: he's a grown-up, he can buy his own ;p

13:06:33 nubbins`: i guess it's probably still legal in .ar

13:06:55 nubbins`: the concentrates are better / easier

13:07:03 nubbins`: plain leaf requires the inhalation of plumes of smoke

13:07:12 nubbins`: v hard on the lungs

13:07:12 punkman: plain leaf is impossible

13:07:16 danielpbarron: i used 10x or something

13:07:23 nubbins`: 5x and 10x, i tried

13:07:35 nubbins`: you need an impossibly small amount

13:07:44 nubbins`: like, people would lel.

13:07:49 nubbins`: "i need more than that"

13:07:57 nubbins`: 5 minutes later, wiping tears off their face

13:08:28 punkman: I got a bunch of now respectable people, drooling like idiots on video

13:08:30 nubbins`: telling them it's okay

13:08:55 nubbins`: punkman the DROOL

13:09:01 nubbins`: smth else, hey?

13:09:20 nubbins`: *sluuurp* i've never had a buzz *sluuuurp* like this bef......

13:09:25 punkman: uncontrollable salivation

13:09:27 danielpbarron: salvia does kinda feel like an anti-opiate; it feels like the opposite of comfortable

13:09:32 punkman: so it wasn't just me

13:09:36 nubbins`: (vacant gaze for 20mins)

13:09:41 mircea_popescu: so this is the drug of dog ?

13:10:14 nubbins`: if it grew in another part of the world they woulda called it soma

13:10:46 nubbins`: punkman massiva salivation and internal organs being pulled to one side

13:10:49 nubbins`: *massive

13:10:59 nubbins`: is generally how the come-up was for me

13:11:32 nubbins`: then generally the room/space/forest/whatever would fill with a heavy static buzz, upward from the ground

13:11:45 nubbins`: then you lose yourself

13:12:18 nubbins`: man. this was like ten years ago.

13:12:18 punkman: first time wtih 5x, I remember having a 20min conversation with my keyboard

13:12:22 nubbins`: it's burned into my fucking brain.

13:12:30 punkman: yeah 10+ years ago

13:12:38 nubbins`: my first time with 5x i had a mental conversation in a language i didn't speak with an old woman

13:13:00 nubbins`: who happened to be standing in my bedroom. which was actually a farm.

13:13:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00033834 = 14.2441 BTC [-] {3}

13:14:11 nubbins`: "Based on my own experiments using an adjustable thermocouple-controlled heat gun, I found that the ideal airstream temperature for vaporizing salvinorin A from dried leaves is approximately 277° C"

13:14:14 nubbins`: well there ya go

13:15:52 nubbins`: my oven doesn't get that hot

13:16:41 mircea_popescu: how can your oven not get that hot ?!

13:17:23 *: nubbins` shrugs

13:17:25 punkman: nubbins`: did you ever try a tincture? I always wondered how that worked

13:17:27 nubbins`: 500F is the max

13:17:50 nubbins`: that's what, 260C?

13:17:56 nubbins`: punkman never tried, nope

13:18:14 nubbins`: i suppose if i set it to broil it'd get however hot

13:18:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48172 @ 0.00033715 = 16.2412 BTC [-] {2}

13:18:35 punkman: well maybe I'll give it a shot after a decade

13:19:38 nubbins`: bring a sitter

13:19:56 punkman: *another decade, not keen on smoking salvia any time soon

13:20:51 nubbins`: it does not lend itself to addiction

13:21:10 punkman: indeed

13:21:11 nubbins`: i guess i should be binding books

13:21:27 nubbins`: we actually sold out on saturday and now there's like 25 on backorder

13:21:38 punkman: doing more bird stuff?

13:21:47 nubbins`: same stuff

13:22:05 nubbins`: http://patrickcanning.ca/ first menu link

13:22:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8bEZx )

13:22:32 nubbins`: er directly http://patrick-canning-ppkq.squarespace.com/birdsofnewfoundland/birds-of-newfoundland

13:22:33 assbot: Birds Of Newfoundland — PATRICK THOMAS CANNING ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8bL7n )

13:22:55 *: punkman sneaks off to order some mitragyna speciosa

13:23:43 nubbins`: ethnobotanicals.com 8)

13:24:55 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2014#939837 < mdma. dogs be rollin all day.

13:24:55 assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 13:09:41; mircea_popescu: so this is the drug of dog ?

13:25:05 punkman: nubbins`: pretty expensive

13:25:26 nubbins`: no doubt

13:25:32 nubbins`: ordered from them ages ago

13:25:37 nubbins`: was surprised to see them still running

13:25:46 nubbins`: i think i bought some HBWR seeds from there

13:26:29 *: adlai is most curious these days to try https://www.erowid.org/plants/calea_zacatechichi/

13:26:30 assbot: Erowid Calea zacatechichi Vault ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8cJ3I )

13:26:37 nubbins`: is that the dream one?

13:26:57 nubbins`: also erowid accepts btc

13:28:14 adlai: yes and yes

13:28:14 punkman: these guys take BTC, can recommend: http://www.bikhuk.com/p/buy-kratom.html

13:28:16 assbot: Bikhuk Kratom Powder - Ethnobotanicals buy direct from the source!: Buy Kratom ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8d5HA )

13:28:29 adlai: well erowid doesn't accept btc in the same way as those guys :)

13:28:37 nubbins`: heh

13:28:46 nubbins`: nope

13:29:25 nubbins`: oh hey, the EU banned 25I-NBOMe in september

13:30:01 nubbins`: #bitcoin-alkaloids ;p

13:31:32 adlai: elaborating on the earlier theme of addiction being brilliant for plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

13:31:34 assbot: Ophiocordyceps unilateralis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGvwDg )

13:32:20 adlai: this is a bit of an extreme example, and some people would claim that humans get something out of the relationship, ie, psychoactive plants are symbiotic, not parasites

13:32:52 nubbins`: fwiw i think psychoactives are more denfense mechanisms than anything

13:33:12 nubbins`: show me an animal (besides your dog) that eats weed plants

13:33:22 punkman: adlai, Michael Pollan et al?

13:33:39 adlai: my dog eats weed!?

13:33:46 nubbins`: adlai, only when you're not looking.

13:34:18 nubbins`: not too surprising from a creature that will greedily eat feces without compunction

13:34:43 adlai: he puked a turd a few days ago

13:34:48 nubbins`: right?>

13:34:53 nubbins`: that's pigeon-level stupidity

13:35:16 adlai: to his credit, of all the dogs I've met, he's got the best grasp of newtonian mechanics

13:35:25 adlai: there is no fooling him

13:35:28 nubbins`: bit of a wash with non-newtonian tho hey?

13:35:38 adlai: yeah he was so confused after interstellar

13:35:46 adlai: "urf?"

13:35:47 nubbins`: heh

13:35:53 nubbins`: well don't ever buy him any silly putty

13:36:55 mircea_popescu: nubbins` horse enjoys a good beer...

13:37:21 punkman: I've seen dog enjoying beer as well

13:37:27 adlai: punkman: haven't seen this before. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Botany_of_Desire ) it's not quite what I was describing, though

13:37:28 assbot: The Botany of Desire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8flOR )

13:37:56 adlai: or rather, he's only looking at one *psychoactive* plant, and he's looking at it from the plant's perspective

13:38:26 nubbins`: oh sure

13:38:29 nubbins`: look at orchids

13:38:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00034118 = 1.723 BTC [+]

13:38:56 adlai: i'm also suspicious of any researcher who's named after his subjects' gametes

13:39:01 nubbins`: there are species that still imitate the appearance of their once-favoured pollinators, now long extinct

13:39:47 nubbins`: https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/a-flower-hints-at-the-appearance-of-an-extinct-bee/

13:39:49 assbot: A flower hints at the appearance of an extinct bee « Why Evolution Is True ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGy308 )

13:39:50 adlai: mircea_popescu: graphs on mpex have been wonky today

13:40:37 mircea_popescu: wonky how ?

13:42:09 adlai: they don't all display on the main page, sometimes all do, sometimes one or two missing. sometimes they're missing from the asset page too.

13:42:15 mircea_popescu: a. yeah.

13:42:19 adlai: right now S.WOL is missing

13:42:53 adlai: it has already been established that you sabotage your own uptime to test our attentiveness...

13:43:12 mircea_popescu: transient situation.

13:43:24 adlai: nubbins`: this is my favorite evolution story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_flagella

13:43:25 assbot: Evolution of flagella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGzcEV )

13:43:29 mircea_popescu: (also, swol is not missing, just, nothing there)

13:43:58 adlai: well, earlier mpoe was missing

13:44:40 adlai: first time I didn't mention it, second time I mentioned it but it was back by the time you asked "wonky how"

13:44:50 mircea_popescu: ya.

13:55:04 adlai: why would you have a "featured in" section with images of newspapers, but no links to the actual article!?

13:55:26 *: adlai refuses to link the site because they don't deserve the publicity of getting laughed at

13:55:38 adlai: suffice it to say that it's one of the zillion worthless "bitcoin startups"

13:58:35 mircea_popescu: because they saw it on some other site

13:58:43 mircea_popescu: or more likely, because the theme they ripped came with the icons.

13:59:06 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/mpex-smpoe-november-2014-statement/

13:59:07 assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) November 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGDzQp )

14:01:32 adlai: "Tech, 24.87832294 BTC" awfully specific...

14:02:19 mircea_popescu: kinda no practical way to make these not relate to one another

14:02:31 adlai: punkman: seen https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=411974.0 ?

14:02:32 assbot: Promechard: Proprietary Metablock Chains for Arbitrary Data ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEgJn )

14:02:49 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/mpex-smpoe-july-2014-statement/#footnote_2_55827

14:02:49 assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) July 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEksD )

14:02:59 mircea_popescu: adlai ^

14:03:31 adlai: oic

14:05:23 adlai: !s definitive advertising network

14:05:24 assbot: 0 results for 'definitive advertising network' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=definitive+advertising+network

14:10:28 adlai: lol http://i.imgur.com/kBuk5gu.png

14:10:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGG84S )

14:10:58 adlai: mircea_popescu: why does it want an extra 35.56b

14:16:00 mircea_popescu: adlai huh ?

14:16:28 mircea_popescu: anyway, that was the van network, it was actuve for like a month.

14:16:56 adlai: "Please send exactly 0.01003556 BTC to 1btcaddressblabla"

14:17:27 mircea_popescu: to identify you.

14:19:49 *: adlai mutters something about the benefits of address reuse

14:19:58 mircea_popescu: namely ?

14:20:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53117 @ 0.00034107 = 18.1166 BTC [-] {2}

14:20:42 adlai: one address per customer makes it easier to tell which payment comes from which customer

14:20:53 mircea_popescu: right.

14:23:00 mircea_popescu: ;;nethash

14:23:00 gribble: 309546849.256

14:24:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.10745861 = 5.3729 BTC [+] {9}

14:24:57 mircea_popescu: it also happens to be the wrong thing. it makes it easier for ~everyone~, which is bad for user privacy. it requires more complexity, which costs money and opens the door to errors

14:25:02 mircea_popescu: as kraken found out the hard way.

14:25:45 adlai: and this can't happen with a shitty implementation (or user error) of discrimination based on dust-level change?

14:25:47 mircea_popescu: meanwhile using a single address has no cost associated, other than you know, one particular string of eight digits as opposed to another particular string of eight digits.

14:26:28 mircea_popescu: adlai anything can happen, but if you don't need a database you have less exposure to the things that can happen.

14:26:47 adlai: you don't need a database to associate pending payments to their dust amount?

14:27:08 mircea_popescu: nope.

14:27:26 adlai: what if shit happens between invoicing and payment?

14:27:32 mircea_popescu: like ?

14:28:32 adlai: server restarts for whatever reason, first thing it sees on startup is a payment with some amount of dust. how does it know which customer was issued that specific dust request, before the reboot?

14:29:36 mircea_popescu: you're aware that when you make an order you get sent an email. right ?

14:30:19 *: adlai doesn't have dementia, yet

14:31:15 mircea_popescu: so it looks if it sent a mail for that amount. if it does and the recipient correctly hashes to it, it sends it an email with teh code.

14:31:29 mircea_popescu: not like it matters if it's rebooted or anything.

14:31:40 adlai: "recipient correctly hashes to it" missing piece of the puzzle

14:31:44 mircea_popescu: :p

14:31:51 mircea_popescu: but i enjoyed tormenting you with it fwiw

14:32:14 mircea_popescu: srsly nao, isn't it obvious by now, whenever immutability is achieved without a db, a hash was involved ?

14:32:42 *: adlai suspected something of the sort, but hasn't yet received his jump-to-conclusions mat

14:32:50 mircea_popescu: aok

14:33:35 adlai: and when you're high enough, what's hashing if not a lookup in the database of MATHEMATICS ITSELF

14:33:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44225 @ 0.00035046 = 15.4991 BTC [+]

14:33:59 mircea_popescu: :)

14:34:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, as a general point : breaking the address <-> user relation is the most important thing to do for bitcoin's success on an individual level.

14:34:39 mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea, not reusing addresses.

14:34:45 mircea_popescu: the more ambiguous they are, the better.

14:35:38 adlai: too many negatives there... you're saying that reusing addresses makes them more ambiguous?

14:36:05 nubbins`: it makes the use thereof more ambiguous

14:36:14 mircea_popescu: they're separate clauses.

14:36:35 mircea_popescu: not reusing addresses is a bad idea ; reusing them makes them more ambiguous, which is good.

14:37:30 adlai: how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy

14:37:51 mircea_popescu: explain, because the logic doesn't follow.

14:39:01 adlai: Alice wants to pay Bob a bitcoin. She has one address with 2btc, so she creates a transaction sending bob one bitcoin, and one bitcoin change back to her own address. it's trivial to tell which bitcoin is alice's, and which is bob's.

14:39:43 adlai: scenario 2 - alice creates a transaction paying 1btc to one address, and 1btc to another. it's not trivial to tell (just from the transactions) which address belongs to whom.

14:40:04 adlai: lots more work for Eve

14:40:07 mircea_popescu: so you like to think.

14:40:11 nubbins`: i think you are both using different concepts of "reuse"

14:40:16 mircea_popescu: moreover, look at it in its proper light.

14:40:35 adlai: nubbins`: possibly, i'm against concept reuse :P

14:40:36 mircea_popescu: "adlai, you are charged before this court with high crimes of having derped on the internet in a forbidden manner"

14:40:40 mircea_popescu: "what proof do you have ?"

14:40:41 nubbins`: secnario 3: adlai and nubs each send a tx to 1mpexblahblah. they send their change wherever they like.

14:40:46 mircea_popescu: "you've paid to address X!"

14:40:49 mircea_popescu: "mnope"

14:40:58 mircea_popescu: "well but somebody did!"

14:41:03 mircea_popescu: "sure. lots of people. what's your point ?"

14:42:13 mircea_popescu: the key to escaping responsibility if being one of a group that did whatever. the way to implement this in bitcoin is through address reuse.

14:42:13 nubbins`: "but if all the movies go into the bin behind the movie return slot, how will they know who is returning their movies?"

14:42:14 adlai: "this address, which has previously been associated with you, made on of those transactions"

14:42:26 mircea_popescu: "associated" how ?

14:42:40 mircea_popescu: once this one use per address thing goes away, "associated" is a lolzword.

14:42:41 adlai: "you paid for your 1000btc porsche from it"

14:42:53 mircea_popescu: "wasn't me"

14:42:54 adlai: "kept the change, then paid address X later on"

14:43:09 adlai: ok, let's take the porsche then cuz it's evidently not yours!

14:43:09 mircea_popescu: "wasn't me"

14:43:14 nubbins`: adlai this is an argument against payout address reuse by individuals

14:43:25 nubbins`: mpex situation is accounts receivable address reuse

14:43:29 mircea_popescu: yeah nubbins has it. there's a difference here.

14:43:33 adlai: right

14:43:34 nubbins`: which afaict has no problems

14:43:53 mircea_popescu: bitbet does the same thing, it reuses addresses liberally.

14:43:55 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2014#940002

14:43:55 assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 14:37:30; adlai: how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy

14:44:05 mircea_popescu: nothing to do with transparency really.

14:44:14 mircea_popescu: everything to do with the very privacy of the users.

14:45:32 nubbins`: adlai i mean obviously buying $100k of btc from a government-approved exchange, immediately purchasing a porsche with it, keeping change in same address, buying H from silk road, keeping change in same address, buying mpex shares, etc etc

14:45:33 adlai: well it also gives transparency, as long as the people looking in trust that the business uses only those addresses

14:45:35 nubbins`: is a bad idea

14:45:41 nubbins`: but does this really need to be stated? :S

14:46:20 mircea_popescu: adlai sure but that's difficult to verify

14:46:27 *: nubbins` puts on a t-shirt with his home address and times when he will be away from his house, then goes to buy drugs w/ gold coins

14:46:43 adlai: don't forget to label your keys too

14:46:48 nubbins`: natch

14:47:12 nubbins`: address reuse also thwarts phishing attempts

14:47:28 mircea_popescu: certainly.

14:47:43 mircea_popescu: and in so doing provides the perfect pill against the hearn idiocy of "let's import heardbleed into btc

14:47:46 nubbins`: the forum is riddled with stories of scammers preying on group buys by PMing people saying "hey its me, adlai`, plz to send btc to 1Scamblahblah"

14:47:50 mircea_popescu: it'll work fine if we call it PKI instead"

14:48:07 adlai: nubbins`: aka the idiot tax

14:48:31 adlai: as slimy as phish may be, it's a key part of our survival as a species

14:48:50 nubbins`: ehhhhhhhh

14:48:55 *: adlai actually heard the words "they said it in the factory tour, so it's probably true" a few days ago

14:48:58 nubbins`: key part of our survival as economic creatures

14:49:14 mircea_popescu: it's a key part of the survival OF WOMEN

14:49:26 adlai: ?

14:49:51 mircea_popescu: !

14:49:52 nubbins`: !s WOMEN from:mircea_popescu

14:49:53 assbot: 700 results for 'WOMEN from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=WOMEN+from%3Amircea_popescu

14:50:07 mircea_popescu: !s drugs from:nubbins`

14:50:08 assbot: 59 results for 'drugs from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=drugs+from%3Anubbins%60

14:50:12 mircea_popescu: psss

14:50:13 nubbins`: kek

14:50:22 nubbins`: dat case, dat point

14:50:49 mircea_popescu: http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/

14:50:50 assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbe7Dj )

14:51:13 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 59/ 20746 / 700 / 111250

14:51:13 gribble: 0

14:51:16 mircea_popescu: SEE!

14:51:29 *: adlai won't look at those until they're on bloomberg (due to customer demand)

14:52:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00035116 = 24.5461 BTC [+] {2}

14:52:08 mircea_popescu: !s men from:mircea_popescu

14:52:09 assbot: 288 results for 'men from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=men+from%3Amircea_popescu

14:52:29 mircea_popescu: well at least i'm not gay.

14:52:40 mircea_popescu: !s anal from:mircea_popescu

14:52:41 assbot: 52 results for 'anal from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=anal+from%3Amircea_popescu

14:52:44 mircea_popescu: !s sex from:mircea_popescu

14:52:45 assbot: 253 results for 'sex from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sex+from%3Amircea_popescu

14:52:58 mircea_popescu: hey, that's actually kinda accurate.

14:54:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94500 @ 0.00035156 = 33.2224 BTC [+] {2}

14:54:26 jurov: !s oral from:mircea_popescu

14:54:27 assbot: 14 results for 'oral from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+from%3Amircea_popescu

14:54:35 adlai: it'd be kinda cool to work for nsa or whoever have !s over everything everybody has ever said

14:54:52 jurov: !s oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented

14:54:53 assbot: 0 results for 'oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+to%3Amircea_popescu+%3C%3C+nanotube+this+should+be+implemented

14:54:55 mircea_popescu: nubbins` can you appreciate how damned rare it is, a few occurences over tens of thousands of LINES ?

14:55:01 adlai: probably the lizard schutzstaffel

14:55:14 mircea_popescu: !up kakobrekla

14:55:20 mircea_popescu: as in UP YOURS

14:56:12 punkman: adlai, anything interesting about that besided being lisp?

14:56:37 adlai: punkman: it seems to overlap, to some degree, the goals of the deeds project

14:56:54 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: !s sex http://pastebin.com/FGt21TCn

14:56:55 assbot: mf doom - kookies - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8yikJ )

14:57:06 punkman: adlai: how does it not destroy coins?

14:57:34 nubbins`: or i guess !s jacking off, more accurately

14:58:08 mircea_popescu: emails/females ? that's some hardcore rhyming.

14:58:26 mircea_popescu: ima off sending some shemales some emales nao.

14:58:36 adlai: punkman: "Assuming each of these transactions includes a miner fee of 0.1 mbits (millibits), this would cost the proprietor 36.5 mbits a year."

14:58:46 adlai: (from the paper)

14:58:57 nubbins`: heh

14:59:00 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAYdO30Tcu4

14:59:01 assbot: MF DOOM - Kookies - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbg3vO )

14:59:05 mircea_popescu: adlai what i don't get is : some group is trying to do something punkman already did, and we're using.

14:59:07 nubbins`: if you want it spit instead of typed

14:59:11 mircea_popescu: why are you telling him about them ? tell them about him.

14:59:23 punkman: also, do you see any benefit in including previous metablock hash in next metablock?

14:59:45 adlai: how do you know I haven't told them about him?

14:59:52 mircea_popescu: i don't see them here.

14:59:57 adlai: lol

15:00:08 mircea_popescu: going "oh punkman, you're our idol, bless us"

15:00:14 adlai: availability. punkman is right here, pasting links cost nothing...

15:00:16 mircea_popescu: so either they're dumb or you've not told 'em and they're dumb.

15:00:43 mircea_popescu: yeah, but abusing availability is how availability goes away eh ?

15:00:52 adlai: true

15:03:57 punkman: while we're on the topic, I want to make a service that fetches a URL, hashes contents, and then bundles and notarizes those. thoughts?

15:04:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00035112 = 3.4761 BTC [-]

15:04:32 nubbins`: jurov wrong bot dad

15:04:44 mircea_popescu: punkman as html ?

15:05:05 jurov: nubbins` my bad

15:05:09 nubbins`: np

15:05:40 mircea_popescu: it'd be a great thing, page verification, but so many things can fuck it up. like, any page that includes the current time. a theme upgrade.

15:05:41 punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah but also other options. screenshots or WARC can also be done.

15:05:50 nubbins`: anyway good idea

15:06:08 punkman: mircea_popescu: why's that a problem?

15:06:28 nubbins`: dat regex

15:06:29 adlai: the page will never verify

15:06:45 nubbins`: never ever

15:06:46 mircea_popescu: yeah, it'll be rare that it verifies so impossible to put to practical use.

15:06:49 adlai: if the data you hash includes a timestamp

15:06:56 nubbins`: which rendering engine will you use?

15:06:56 punkman: the service would notarize the fact that on X date, the contents were something that hashes to Y hash

15:07:08 mircea_popescu: yeah but...

15:07:15 nubbins`: how about pages that generate different html based on browser capabilities?

15:07:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50637 @ 0.00035194 = 17.8212 BTC [+] {2}

15:07:20 mircea_popescu: ^

15:07:33 adlai: this could work better in tandem with something(s) that archives the page itself

15:07:35 mircea_popescu: there are incredibly many problems with this. kinda why html is so hated

15:07:38 punkman: I've considered fetching from multiple geographical locations

15:07:41 punkman: at extra cost

15:07:51 nubbins`: i mean

15:07:55 mircea_popescu: there's a reason the wayback machine is run as charity.

15:07:59 nubbins`: you're going to hash a session id?

15:08:09 mircea_popescu: but here's an idea : have THEM maybe use your thing ?

15:08:14 adlai: what about contents?

15:08:19 mircea_popescu: shoot them an email, hash all their pages ?

15:08:22 nubbins`: you and i pull down a website right now using the same browser on the same hardware, we're getting different content

15:08:27 nubbins`: it's unverifiable, full stop

15:08:37 adlai: let the user (who requests hashing site content) specify somehow the part of the site they want hashed

15:08:46 nubbins`: let the user copy and paste it

15:08:54 adlai: then your hash confirms that this site contained a certain text

15:08:58 mircea_popescu: yeah but then how do you prove it's off the site.

15:09:01 nubbins`: bullshit it does.

15:09:11 mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way to do this is with sworn testimony.

15:09:26 mircea_popescu: you basically have to ask someone to go there confirm your screenshot is correct.

15:09:30 punkman: nubbins`: preview before bundling, so you make sure it didn't need JS enabled when you only asked for HTML

15:09:33 nubbins`: let the user open element inspector, change the headline on aljazeera.com to say "adlai sniffs farts", hash that and send it off

15:09:50 nubbins`: it proves they ran the article

15:10:02 nubbins`: right?

15:10:04 adlai: that wouldn't work unless I could change the document that punkman's bot fetched

15:10:05 mircea_popescu: adlai what if i select every 6th letter and it spells out "i did your mom"

15:10:24 nubbins`: adlai think it thru

15:10:38 nubbins`: punkman's bot fetched a document, right?

15:10:38 punkman: the idea is basically this https://archive.today/ but with signing

15:10:39 assbot: archive.today - webpage capture ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8BGfj )

15:10:45 nubbins`: what document did it fetch?

15:11:15 adlai: nubbins`: think what through? you can change whatever you want in your own browser, but you can't change the communication between bot and server without compromising somethnig

15:11:34 nubbins`: fuck the bot

15:11:42 mircea_popescu: actually... sure you can, but let's not get into the entire mitm http story.

15:11:42 adlai: don't kick the baby

15:11:44 nubbins`: i can do a deed by hand

15:11:51 adlai: mitm http = compromising something

15:11:55 nubbins`: i can also hash a html document by hand and send dust to it

15:12:03 nubbins`: "hey man the bot didn't pick up my file"

15:12:09 mircea_popescu: no, because something you can't verify isn't something, it's chtulhu.

15:12:16 adlai: no, that's "I created some file, and the bot isn't agreeing with it"

15:12:39 adlai: nubbins`: the bot's signature on a file isn't proof-of-existence, it's proof-of-that-server-said-this-to-me-at-that-time

15:12:50 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: (i think) << pretty sure you're right.

15:13:15 adlai: back in basic training this one drill sergeant said some words that have echoed with me to this day... "If you ever start thinking something, just stop."

15:13:16 nubbins`: no, it's proof that the bot hashed a string of text and sent dust to the address

15:14:16 adlai: the whole point is that you trust that the bot only does that for text that it fetches from URLs

15:14:16 nubbins`: or are we taking the bot on blind faith now?

15:14:17 mircea_popescu: btw, it occurs to me, the one thing qntra would really need would be a resident business/finance analyst.

15:14:20 punkman: related https://perma.cc/

15:14:22 assbot: perma.cc ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8CLDN )

15:14:29 mircea_popescu: mike_c how you doin' on time these days ?

15:14:39 adlai: punkman: either nubbins` or I are kinda missing the point, can you explain it again pls?

15:14:45 nubbins`: so we trust that the bot fetches text from a website and doesn't alter it and hashes it and sends dust to the address

15:14:55 punkman: adlai, what you said

15:14:58 nubbins`: but there's no way to verify it because we'll never get the same hash

15:15:11 mircea_popescu: well, rarely.

15:15:13 nubbins`: so we actually have to visit the site at the time the bot archives it

15:15:18 mike_c: limited, but I could handle something.

15:15:20 mircea_popescu: i think fraudsters perhaps hashes to the same thing.

15:15:22 nubbins`: to verify with our own eyes that that's what the site said

15:15:23 adlai: which is why you give the bot a URL and an xpath (or regex, or whatever you like for specifying a part of the document)

15:15:29 nubbins`: and then make a note of it for future reference

15:15:42 nubbins`: this is retarded

15:15:45 adlai: so the bot doesn't say, "the entire document fetched from <url> hashed to <hash>"

15:16:05 adlai: it says, "the document fetched from <url> contained a section, located at <path>, hashing to <hash>"

15:16:08 mike_c: you looking for somebody to analyze btc businesses? that's a tough task with the limited information they usually provide.

15:16:22 punkman: you also get the contents the bot fetched so you can download for safekeeping

15:16:45 mircea_popescu: mike_c lemme value proposition you : if you're going to work now and again, it may work much better to be a qntra star analyst and get shares for that work, than sorta be stuck with a solo blog.

15:16:47 adlai: that's working in tandem with an archive, with crowdsourced archives :)

15:17:05 nubbins`: so the bot says "the phrase 'i hate newfies' fetched from the url http://iwouldneversaythatihatenewfies.com hashed to <hash>"

15:17:07 nubbins`: useful

15:17:13 mike_c: yes, but qntra posts don't have graphs

15:17:20 mike_c: maybe i could fix that.

15:17:22 mircea_popescu: mostly because you're not there yet.

15:18:00 mircea_popescu: tandacoin: i have read logs of bitcoin assets but i'm not sure how to get word of trust << o.O the cuteliest!

15:18:05 mircea_popescu: ;;seen tandacoin

15:18:05 gribble: tandacoin was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 hours, 20 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <tandacoin> you guys have no idea how to do business or journalism, im not going to waste my time with u

15:18:05 mike_c: this is perhaps a good idea. i gotta run for a bit. but I think you're right.

15:18:09 adlai: nubbins`: "you can't not communicate". that would say that either the owner of that domain is a liar, and said at that time that he hates newfies, or that bot has become unreliable.

15:18:22 mircea_popescu: awww.

15:18:47 mircea_popescu: that final u is priceless.

15:18:56 mircea_popescu: YOU GUYSE!

15:18:58 mircea_popescu: have no idea.

15:19:32 adlai: how is journo formed??? how page get views?

15:19:54 nubbins`: i pronounce u as "oo" in my head

15:20:10 *: adlai imagines that the author is french and forgot the t

15:20:31 nubbins`: and the o and the i

15:20:34 nubbins`: bbl lunch

15:21:37 mircea_popescu: you mean lnch

15:21:46 adlai: yo mean yo

15:22:00 adlai: http://www.justyo.co/

15:22:01 assbot: Yo - It's that simple. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbntPE )

15:22:32 mircea_popescu: Yoco sounds like a future artist / sextape protagonist

15:23:11 mircea_popescu: cazalla: tandacoin, stick around, i need to finish current article and then head off to a pokemon meetup << bwahahaha

15:23:45 mircea_popescu: im saving this one in a special compartment, it's too good.

15:24:04 punkman: can't tell if trolling

15:24:30 mircea_popescu: no but imagine, perez hilton comes here to get my take on shoes

15:24:40 mircea_popescu: i'm all like "nigga wait, i gotta pokemon brb"

15:26:46 mircea_popescu: "tandacoin:we get 4k pageviews a day how muh do you get?" ahahah this was so great.

15:26:51 adlai: that awkward moment when you say bye, then realize that your friend is also going to pokemon

15:29:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00035268 = 23.1711 BTC [+] {2}

15:29:53 mircea_popescu: fwiw : qntra.net us alexa rank 165,888 ; altcoinpress.com us alexa rank 227,200. (larger is worse).

15:30:33 kakobrekla: isnt alexa rank like rand()*2/2

15:31:42 mircea_popescu: well yeah, about on par with random derp calling ourpages();

15:32:01 mircea_popescu: "And indeed, the output of the CPRNG is very biased. The output of each step of the CPRNG is a number from 0 to 25; you would expect successive outputs to be the same around one time in 26, but my experiments show that the frequency is closer to 1/22.5." <<< shcneier made a cypher. heh.

15:32:46 adlai: how is alexa formed? how does blog get viewy?

15:33:25 mircea_popescu: iirc they had a toolbar.

15:33:36 mircea_popescu: basically it's "how many idiots end up on your site"

15:33:53 kakobrekla: so qntra is actually doing worse idiotwise than that other thing

15:34:15 adlai: what ever happened to backroom deals with ISPs

15:34:22 adlai: they need to learn from nielsen

15:35:07 mircea_popescu: adlai they cost money ? i dunno.

15:35:19 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla well, worse is better.

15:35:44 adlai: they don't have to cost money if you can dress it up as a service you sell the ISP

15:35:54 adlai: for example: you've got the data, we've got the scientists

15:36:11 mircea_popescu: lmao

15:36:16 mircea_popescu: what do you think this is, 1995 ?

15:36:30 mircea_popescu: "honey, you've got the tits, I got the canes"

15:37:33 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: i feel this encourages an echo chamber as it continues << this is prolly true. on the other hand, most of the intelligent people that were ever going to hear about bitcoin have by now.

15:37:42 mircea_popescu: what's left are the idiots.

15:38:19 *: adlai has met a few intelligent people who have heard about bitcoin but are taking their time learning about it

15:38:26 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: the general discussion here also changed a lot over last years << i'd loive to hear your take on that ?

15:39:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o wow, you back ? EMAIL ME!

15:39:44 adlai: it seems that the general cycle is that these people hear about bitcoin, learn a tiny bit about it, and park it in the back of their mind for a few years

15:40:06 mircea_popescu: seems reasonable.

15:40:18 mircea_popescu: i certainly do the same with most things.

15:40:45 mircea_popescu: "Name Most Important. But it was quite unexpected that the name of the coin does play the most important role over the long term, since it?s the only one thing from the five features, mentioned above, that cannot be changed, or significantly improved."

15:40:46 mircea_popescu: lol.

15:41:12 adlai: I guess tacking an X on the end is an insignificant improvement?

15:41:18 mircea_popescu: "So let?s try to build a rating of the cryptocurrency names of real coins, based on various criteria: Brightness. Seriousness of name (as a currency, the name shouldn?t be fun). Whether the name is conceptual (makes sense, dedicated to ideas), or not."

15:41:31 adlai: hobonickles!

15:41:50 mircea_popescu: so bizarre this. deconstructing it, pretty much the only takeaway is whoa, check out the puritans!

15:42:08 mircea_popescu: some esl kid on the fringe of culture nevertheless believes that "as a Category", X "shouldn't be fun".

15:42:25 mircea_popescu: apodictically, just like that.

15:43:24 mircea_popescu: "Does it have money or financial mental associations, or even slight links, for example, Luckycoin is for luck, that is necessary to become rich, Mooncoin means Moon, and the Moon drives ocean waters and financial flows (as assumed in financial astrology) plus ?to the moon? means also price growing process? And MEOW, or BBQ coins have no these associations at all)."

15:43:48 adlai: apodiction breeds apodidaction

15:43:56 mircea_popescu: "Dick Valis. Dick is an altcoin enthusiast and student of philosophy. He enjoys writing about cryptocurrencies and spending his time exploring reality and searching for truth."

15:44:10 mircea_popescu: http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/e2c17ca8e5cb72b7c1f3d2d57561ad10?s=85&d=monsterid&r=G << no way that's actually the author ?

15:44:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Lk1D )

15:44:18 mircea_popescu: why does he sound like a 16yo vietnamese girl ?

15:44:26 adlai: that's philip k dick

15:44:35 mircea_popescu: a so it is.

15:45:15 mircea_popescu: adlai what's apodidaction ?

15:45:46 adlai: apo+dictic = away from speech, unquestionable

15:45:50 adlai: autodidact = self-taught

15:45:58 adlai: cross the two and you get an unteachable idiot

15:46:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead << entirely spurious argument advanced << no but address the actual point rather than the idiots putting it forth.

15:46:28 mircea_popescu: yes but -ion requires a process

15:46:55 jurov: ;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com

15:46:58 gribble: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down

15:47:03 mircea_popescu: punkman ^

15:47:47 mircea_popescu: adlai speaking of which, i wonder how many people who use "i have no words" in their apology realise the irony.

15:48:18 adlai: apodidaction = away/apart from the process of teaching

15:48:56 mircea_popescu: moar like "taking away from teaching". apodidactic, "which is away"

15:49:24 *: adlai is not enough of a classics scholar to debate this much further

15:49:36 adlai: let's just settle on quidquid latine dictum sitis, altus sonator

15:49:41 adlai: sonatUR

15:50:30 mircea_popescu: well... there's good reason for that.

15:50:42 mircea_popescu: they didn't use to teach monkeys and donkeys letters back then, for one.

15:52:28 kakobrekla: i'd loive to hear your take on that ? < well my take is that i used to be one of the smart people on the chan and now im one of the stupid

15:52:30 adlai: cazalla: you missed a spot, over in http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/

15:52:31 assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )

15:52:48 mircea_popescu: ahahaha poor kako. tide went out from under his butt

15:52:59 adlai: so THAT'S why you brought me in here!

15:53:17 mircea_popescu: you;'re smart, the problem with you is that you don't know much.

15:54:08 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0H33QSD.txt )

15:54:08 adlai: !b 1

15:54:56 adlai: iirc it was Dennett who said that ignorance should not be seen as an insult

15:55:20 mircea_popescu: well... someone fishing for insults in b-a would get well fed in short order. but no, it's not an insult.

15:56:01 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: no you don't understand unless it's a perfect solution it's entirely worthless << lawl.

15:56:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keeping the old MIT spirit alive. "what's the most important thing to remember about this great achievement ?"

15:56:32 mircea_popescu: "that it sucks."

15:56:35 adlai: my problem with me is that I don't know what I want to learn next

15:56:52 adlai: so I flutter about, dabbling in this and that, and never really going anywhere

15:57:03 mircea_popescu: that's a problem.

15:57:25 kakobrekla: so now im ignorant?

15:57:30 kakobrekla: idk i wouldnt know!

15:57:34 mircea_popescu: the only way a good intellect can be used is through achieving excellent depth in one field, that can then be leveraged in all fields. otherwise, if you never anchor, it'll just mush around

15:57:39 kakobrekla: cause im ignorant prolly.

15:57:55 adlai: at least you've got strength going for ya

15:58:10 mircea_popescu: no he doesn't.

15:59:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64648 @ 0.00035361 = 22.8602 BTC [+] {3}

15:59:20 *: kakobrekla has nothing.

15:59:29 kakobrekla: but a barrel (ready).

15:59:30 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> if you are pwned while using 'brainwallets', simply shows that your brain is defective < no need to test this hypothesis the result is known << all brains are defective, is the thing.

15:59:43 mircea_popescu: ;;google et la tete sur le robinet

15:59:44 gribble: Tête de robinet... - Plomberie - PiecesPlomberie.com: http://www.piecesplomberie.com/plomberie/tete-de-robinet.html; Robinets thermostatiques, tête thermostatique - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n__r-fIBQow; Tête de robinet : Apiman, tête de robinets courtes et longues, avec et ...: http://www.apiman.fr/126-tete-de-robinet

15:59:47 mircea_popescu: pfff

15:59:56 mircea_popescu: ;;google chevalliers de la table ronde

15:59:56 gribble: Chevaliers de la table ronde: http://www.southwestern.edu/~prevots/songs/?p=30; 113. Chevaliers de la Table Ronde (Traditional French) - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPanlQD4hpA; Comptine Chevaliers de la Table Ronde 35553 - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CDM6C0zZuw

16:00:08 kakobrekla: not homus cyptoheadus or whatever

16:00:20 kakobrekla: crypto*

16:01:28 adlai: mircea_popescu: "excellent depth in one field" << what's yours?

16:01:30 mircea_popescu: "Les deux pieds contre la mureille et la tete sous le robinet." << :D

16:01:47 mircea_popescu: adlai physics, originally.

16:01:59 adlai: that's like "i work with computers"

16:02:20 adlai: excellent depth in physics can mean so many totally different things

16:02:44 mircea_popescu: yeah but it doesn't actually matter which specifically it means.

16:03:11 mircea_popescu: solid state magnetism, fwiw.

16:04:13 adlai: hm

16:05:38 *: adlai doesn't see "work with computers" as a good candidate for excellent depth

16:06:11 mircea_popescu: no, but any of the toipics that often come up here could make it up.

16:06:20 adlai: seems more of a tool for digging into other fields, whether a "hard" science, or just making impossible things hard in other endeavors

16:06:47 mircea_popescu: nah, it's an art in its own, not merely a craft.

16:07:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83550 @ 0.0003445 = 28.783 BTC [-] {7}

16:08:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: browser plugin !?!?! << o.O

16:09:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the beautifully dark cream-your-pants future of 'shall be delivered' is not attainable until folks learn to remember serious keys (yes, remember. with head.) << this is like saying the frankish empire has to wait for people who can make swords. by hand!

16:10:11 mircea_popescu: no it doesn't. charlemagne wasn't a blacksmith, and a thousand years later the orleans that WAS a blacksmith made a shitty king

16:12:49 adlai: well, any advice on how to pick a field is welcome. picture a highschool dropout with centipede's dilemma about where to start fixing his ignorance

16:13:40 jurov: asciilifeform's argument fits better when it's about wielding the sword, not forging it

16:13:48 mircea_popescu: adlai what do you like anwyay ?

16:14:11 adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tFQMjc-IE

16:14:12 assbot: Genesis - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8TJ4Z )

16:15:11 mircea_popescu: jurov true.

16:15:28 adlai: this is an answer on several levels... music plays a rather large role in my life, although the ratio of consumption/production has been too high lately;

16:15:41 mircea_popescu: you like... music ?

16:15:43 adlai: and the second level - this is a song about a lawnmower who gets pushed to do fancier things, but he just likes pushing a lawnmower around

16:16:07 mircea_popescu: has nothing to do with fancy. contrary to what the uncultured imagine, there's nothing fancy about the products of the spirit.

16:16:18 mircea_popescu: no fancier than dung, at any rate, and the results of the same biology.

16:16:46 *: adlai has been thinking a lot lately about generative music

16:17:49 adlai: most music (increasingly so for more popular music) is incredibly formulaic

16:17:57 mircea_popescu: you gotta learn shit before you get creative.

16:17:58 nubbins`: ;;gettrust devthedev

16:17:58 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nubbins` to user devthedev: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nubbins%60&dest=devthedev | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=devthedev | Rated since: Tue Jul 15 12:31:42 2014

16:18:28 mircea_popescu: adlai go read say 1700s treatises on music for a while. either french, italian or german, whatever you speak.

16:19:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the 'do-ocracy' does what it does best: does. << haha buncha progres.

16:20:40 adlai: all this talk is silly, though. the simple answer is to study math, and the real problem is lazyness, rack of dishiprin, etc

16:21:16 mircea_popescu: nah, math is not actually a thing.

16:21:19 *: adlai likes math, at least staring at its ass as it walks by... http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/same.png

16:21:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8V4Zz )

16:21:41 adlai: math is totally a thing!

16:21:49 adlai: math is more of a thing than most other things

16:21:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, other users of 'opera' - which one do you use? the 1990s close-source turd? or the 'new, impr0v3d' idiocy that uses 'webkit' (chrome) rendering engine ? <<< they only moved to webkit last year, version 15 or something. afaik the last usable versions are 10 something.

16:22:04 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla the blockquote text is borkt on http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/

16:22:05 assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )

16:22:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:22:14 mircea_popescu: very much like bitcoin stuff, there's a 7-10 space where the thing's useful.

16:22:32 jurov: $proxies

16:22:33 empyex: jurov: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91

16:22:34 empyex: jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.bz (97 milliseconds), mpex.biz (98 milliseconds), mpex.ws (116 milliseconds), mpex.co (217 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (451 milliseconds)

16:22:35 empyex: jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √

16:24:20 *: adlai slinks off to splash about in the depthless swamp of website construction

16:24:33 jurov: apparently mpex.ws can't be resolved

16:24:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16097 @ 0.00035396 = 5.6977 BTC [+]

16:25:25 jurov: at least from somewhere

16:26:31 nubbins`: !s paper

16:26:32 assbot: 1193 results for 'paper' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=paper

16:26:32 mircea_popescu: http://who.is/whois/mpex.ws ?

16:26:33 assbot: Mpex.ws Whois Lookup - Who.is - Who.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Wt2g )

16:26:51 mircea_popescu: didja get poisoned or something ?

16:26:54 kakobrekla: jurov did you ever update your trezor

16:27:10 jurov: kakobrekla: never

16:27:17 jurov: i never seriously used it yet

16:27:23 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-11-2014#938786

16:27:23 assbot: Logged on 30-11-2014 20:23:56; nubbins`: but FYI, i'm negotiating a price with a buyer now for my genesis block newspaper (the times jan 3 2009)

16:27:30 *: nubbins` rubs hands

16:28:17 jurov: mytrezor.com under linux got broken so i filed it under "fuck that"

16:28:37 kakobrekla: cool

16:28:43 mats_cd03: TSLA down 5 points today

16:29:28 mircea_popescu: wow look at that

16:29:29 jurov: dunno if there's bip32/trezor support in any noobish standalone client.. last i checked electrum was under development

16:29:30 mircea_popescu: over what ?

16:29:50 nubbins`: seen devthedev

16:29:52 nubbins`: er..

16:29:55 nubbins`: ;;seen devthedev

16:29:55 gribble: devthedev was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <devthedev> https://twitter.com/DevinSenaUI/status/534733650349535233

16:30:13 mircea_popescu: Headlines Tesla Stock To Lift Off After Battery Rechargeat Forbes(Mon 1:05AM EST) Demand For Tesla Is Not The Problem, Switching The World To Electric Cars Isat Forbes(Sun, Nov 30) TeslaInvestor's Business Daily(Fri, Nov 28) NVIDIA wants to increase its presence in big data through TeslaMarket Realist(Fri, Nov 28) Tesla Is On The Right Track To Doubleat Forbes(Fri, Nov 28)

16:30:17 mircea_popescu: insufficient pumping!

16:30:42 kakobrekla: well oil got cheaper no?

16:30:49 pete_dushenski: all straws on deck!

16:31:03 pete_dushenski: blow men! blow!

16:31:05 mats_cd03: seems two days ago musk announced tesla "will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology."

16:31:29 mats_cd03: no idea if thats related tho

16:31:34 mircea_popescu: cazalla: there is talk of raising it due to budget shortfalls despite the government that brough it in promising the legislation would never allow for such a thing to occur << typical of ALL TAXES EVER

16:32:00 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 somehow doubt it.

16:32:39 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: decimation show me a country with no income tax that's not in affrica <<< easy, that.

16:33:00 mircea_popescu: argentines are striking against the INTRODUCTION of income tax.

16:33:28 nubbins`: monaco

16:34:26 nubbins`: bahamas

16:34:28 nubbins`: kuwait probably

16:34:46 nubbins`: oman, qatar...

16:36:09 mircea_popescu: the arabs have an equivalent of the serenissima tax tho

16:36:14 mircea_popescu: technically its an income tax

16:36:22 nubbins`: fair enough

16:36:55 pete_dushenski: so argentina has never in its long history had an income tax eh?

16:37:27 nubbins`: wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, says 9-35%

16:37:34 pete_dushenski: and after seeing what it's done to the rest of the world, they kinda have to strike

16:37:59 mats_cd03: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2014/11/russian-european-deadlock-2014113071046562676.html << bets on when Putin lets 'em freeze for a few weeks?

16:38:00 assbot: The Russian-European deadlock - Counting the Cost - Al Jazeera English ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Zobh )

16:39:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1614483-los-salarios-brutos-de-hasta-15000-no-pagaran-impuesto-a-las-ganancias

16:39:25 assbot: Los salarios brutos de hasta $15.000 no pagarán Impuesto a las Ganancias - lanacion.com   ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8ZQX5 )

16:39:28 mircea_popescu: i dunno, it's a convoluted topic.

16:41:34 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski lulzy the confused reaction of a social media dude taken out of the eco chamber.

16:41:47 mircea_popescu: "excuse me ?" seems typical.

16:42:19 pete_dushenski: haha totally

16:42:25 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/ipad-kings-bounty-the-strategy-guide/

16:42:26 assbot: iPad King's Bounty, the strategy guide pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z90BPZ )

16:42:28 pete_dushenski: and i thought i was leading him along nicely

16:42:31 mircea_popescu: these fuckwits fucked up the game for fucks sake.

16:42:54 pete_dushenski: then he went all "wtf my head hurts"

16:43:04 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu game broke?

16:43:36 mircea_popescu: the king's bounty thing

16:44:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.000354 = 15.4698 BTC [+] {2}

16:45:15 pete_dushenski: right. just a new update and all that goodness is out the window or what?

16:45:30 mircea_popescu: nah, i just figured out how to break it.

16:45:40 pete_dushenski: ha o i c

16:45:58 pete_dushenski: what'd it take?

16:46:57 mircea_popescu: rune of "why can't we all be equal"

16:46:59 adlai: !s TSLA from:adlai

16:47:00 assbot: 1 results for 'TSLA from:adlai' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=TSLA+from%3Aadlai

16:47:07 adlai: :-o

16:55:53 ben_vulpes: re qntra advertising: advertising is downright wacky. the numbers say "don't do it" and yet people are constantly doing it.

16:57:37 adlai: fb's "Promoted Stories" are but a step towarsd the inevitable endgame: kickbacks for product placement in casual conversation

16:58:09 adlai: we've got quite a bit of escalation to go in this arms race

16:59:18 nubbins`: ehh i'm not so sure

16:59:59 nubbins`: was lacoste's inevitable endgame paying people to wear shirts with little alligators?

17:00:23 mircea_popescu: aren't they ?

17:00:55 adlai: they "pay" them by letting them associate with the brande

17:01:17 mircea_popescu: adlai anyway, it's bnot going to be run as an actual market, because cattle. so it will be run as a star market.

17:01:26 adlai: "it's"?

17:01:32 mircea_popescu: "tell your friends about budweiser's greatness in narrative form for a chance to win a can of beer"

17:03:25 adlai: I doubt people would be proud of such kickbacks, but shame doesn't stop people from peddling shit from carts in malls all over the world... this is just a few steps further, a few degrees further on the frog-boiling scale

17:03:59 *: adlai is referring to the national pastime, http://americangoy.blogspot.co.il/2008/10/pushy-israelis-in-every-american-mall.html

17:04:00 assbot: The World According to AmericanGoy: Pushy Israelis in Every American Mall ... ( http://bit.ly/1yaNK2y )

17:12:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16872 @ 0.0003471 = 5.8563 BTC [-]

17:23:00 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

17:23:02 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 380.02, Best ask: 380.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.85000, Last trade: 380.86, 24 hour volume: 5838.62655680, 24 hour low: 373.03, 24 hour high: 382.31, 24 hour vwap: 377.722924571

17:28:35 PinkPosixPXE: 17:31 #bitcoin-assets: <+ben_vulpes> PinkPosixPXE's downright neat <<< Thanks! You are awesome as well, and thank you for the rating! :) I'm really glad my contribution helped out, happy to help any time :)

17:33:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all brains are defective, is the thing << elaborate plz

17:37:47 pete_dushenski: maybe in the sense that brains aren't rational computers of ev ?

17:39:05 mod6: ;;rated PinkPosixPXE

17:39:06 gribble: You rated user PinkPosixPXE on Wed Oct 22 13:06:41 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Helped me out testing ben_vulpes install script..

17:39:27 mod6: ;;rate PinkPosixPXE 2 Wrote a script for The Bitcoin Foundation contained in this document: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html

17:39:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A87txO )

17:39:29 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user PinkPosixPXE has changed from 1 to 2.

17:39:41 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: seems to me like he was of the 'brainwallet can be guessed' school of thought. i disagree. if yours can be guessed, you are either lazy or stupid

17:39:49 PinkPosixPXE: Thanks mod6! :D

17:40:10 mod6: No problem. Thank /you/ for putting that together. :]

17:40:35 PinkPosixPXE: Definitely, any time :)

17:40:42 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform to the extent that the vast majority fall into one of those two camps, maybe that'd be the defective element

17:40:57 kakobrekla: actually both camps.

17:41:11 pete_dushenski: and guessed by who, what? is another question

17:41:13 adlai: brains are definitely shitty entropy sources

17:41:19 adlai: but they can work fairly well for storing it

17:41:39 pete_dushenski: brains store stories well, "create" less well

17:42:52 kakobrekla: if you take out convenience factor completely theres is plenty of solutions

17:45:49 adlai: wtfireworks!?

17:46:01 kakobrekla: happy new year

17:46:09 kakobrekla: heard it here first

17:46:59 adlai: you know it's a srs display when chickens and dogs join in

17:47:26 adlai: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer

17:47:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8932L )

17:48:45 pete_dushenski: ^sorta hard to "prove" they have kids

17:48:57 pete_dushenski: not like it's a browser setting

17:49:33 adlai: uhoh, site affinity for reddit.com is 51.2x!

17:52:00 adlai: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net?qcLocale=en_US#!interests%2Fdomains

17:52:01 assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A89UQO )

17:52:14 kakobrekla: meh reddit... 'reddit police' ddosing bbet, 'reddit bitcoin' retweeting bitbet tweets at same time

17:52:17 PinkPosixPXE: ;;rate mod6 2 Great collaboration and work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html

17:52:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A89WZb )

17:52:19 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user mod6 has been recorded.

17:52:43 kakobrekla: love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind.

17:52:45 PinkPosixPXE: ;;rate ben_vulpes 1 Great work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html

17:52:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8a4rm )

17:52:47 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ben_vulpes has been recorded.

17:52:52 mod6: PinkPosixPXE: tyvm!

17:53:07 PinkPosixPXE: you're very welcome! :)

18:03:10 rithm: ;;ratingsystem getrating mod6

18:03:10 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask mod6!~mod6@unaffiliated/mod6 . User mod6, rated since Mon Oct 10 16:26:38 2011. Cumulative rating 46, from 25 total ratings. Received ratings: 25 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 28 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mod6

18:04:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00035408 = 12.499 BTC [+]

18:05:15 rithm: ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks

18:05:17 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.

18:06:36 kakobrekla: oh this is gonna cause so much confusion.

18:08:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1580 @ 0.001245 = 1.9671 BTC [+]

18:08:46 kakobrekla: i see, two soldiers from opposing foundation forces find themselfs in a pitch dark room.

18:09:18 kakobrekla: one hears something moving, points the gun in the dark and asks "who are you? are you with the bitcoin foundation?"

18:09:35 kakobrekla: the other surprised "yes! ... you?"

18:09:38 kakobrekla: "yes me too."

18:09:48 kakobrekla: then they proceed to shooting each other.

18:13:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74666 @ 0.00033987 = 25.3767 BTC [-] {2}

18:14:06 ben_vulpes: adlai: fentanyl: yes please

18:14:24 adlai: kakobrekla: cf "allied athiest alliance"

18:14:36 kakobrekla: a?

18:15:01 adlai: http://www.southparkstudios-q.mtvi.com/clips/2y8xoh/atheist-war

18:15:03 assbot: Atheist War - Video Clips - South Park Studios ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8esa5 )

18:15:27 kakobrekla: aha ok havent seen that

18:15:30 kakobrekla: ignorant n stuff

18:15:35 adlai: there are probably better ways to watch that clip/episode, but I definitely can't send you a url to an external HD that isn't even connected

18:20:01 adlai: tl;dw: three competing organizations wage endless war in the distant future: Allied Atheist Alliance, United Atheist Alliance, and Unified Atheist League

18:20:28 kakobrekla: aha but srsly i dont think that rithm thinks what he thinks he thinks

18:21:09 mod6: ;;gpg info rithm

18:21:11 gribble: User 'rithm', with keyid None, fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1FmiRARq96daxufSYKQM6SHDjwagV1J5XN, registered on Tue Apr 1 16:20:33 2014, last authed on Wed Jul 16 11:52:05 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=rithm . Currently not authenticated.

18:21:11 adlai: Dawkins... thought the future war among the different atheists sects, which he felt had "a certain amount of truth in it"... reminded him of the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea

18:21:28 adlai: (from http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/playboy-interview-richard-dawkins )

18:21:31 assbot: PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8fqmK )

18:21:33 kakobrekla: aha yeah dont you mix those two

18:21:43 mod6: ;;gpg info jcpham

18:21:44 gribble: User 'jcpham', with keyid C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq, registered on Fri Nov 11 12:21:29 2011, last authed on Mon Dec 1 10:26:41 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=jcpham . Currently authenticated from hostmask rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm . CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick.

18:22:33 mod6: ah. ok. rithm, you do realize that gavin & the power-rangers derpation thingy is different than ours tho right?

18:23:48 kakobrekla: <rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks

18:23:49 kakobrekla: new:

18:23:52 kakobrekla: <rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks

18:24:01 kakobrekla: fixes all confusion

18:24:07 rithm: ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks the cocks

18:24:09 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mod6 has changed from 1 to 1.

18:24:21 mod6: heheh

18:24:27 ben_vulpes: rithm: f9beb4d9.org

18:25:09 rithm: this will never work because it's all plain text

18:25:17 rithm: at least use bottstrap

18:25:20 kakobrekla: idk what easier to remember the raw ip or that url

18:25:46 mod6: tough call

18:27:36 ben_vulpes: opera doesn't have browse history?

18:28:40 kakobrekla: i didnt claim it was a problem

18:29:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 915 @ 0.00124945 = 1.1432 BTC [+]

18:46:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00033897 = 22.2703 BTC [-]

18:53:16 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/hsbc-cuts-ties-with-gabi/

18:53:17 assbot: HSBC Cuts Ties with GABI | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHRojw )

18:58:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 800 @ 0.00126967 = 1.0157 BTC [+] {8}

18:58:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22549 @ 0.00034725 = 7.8301 BTC [+]

18:58:26 adlai: global allied bitcoin allianca!

18:58:39 Anduck: .deeds

18:58:42 Anduck: .deed

18:58:48 adlai: ;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com

18:58:52 Anduck: its not up

18:58:53 gribble: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down

19:00:34 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla the blockquote text is borkt on http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ << fixed

19:00:35 assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12gaBN2 )

19:00:39 mod6: State Of Bitcoin Address: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000017.html

19:00:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/12gaEs5 )

19:08:54 adlai: oooh why was I never pointed at http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/

19:08:55 assbot: MPEx tech stuff pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHT7p3 )

19:10:15 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/edwardmccabe/status/538723448189906944/photo/1

19:10:18 assbot: Its signed, must be legit http://t.co/bX3jlrGm79

19:11:33 adlai: hang around bitcoin for long enough and you realized that around these parts, "enhance" is pronounced "hash"

19:12:08 adlai: in case you've been living in a dark attic with no TV shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk

19:12:09 assbot: Let's Enhance - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/12geIJ4 )

19:13:45 kakobrekla: hehe

19:14:14 adlai: best part is when they fucking rotate the picture, I mean... did nobody in the film crew ever hold a fucking camera in their life!?

19:16:33 kakobrekla: bitwise rotation?

19:17:39 adlai: 1:10 in the linked video

19:17:43 adlai: just... just watch it

19:21:23 rithm: therealbitcoin.org is easy enough to remember

19:23:21 rithm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_sZbH4XM8

19:23:22 assbot: Why you don't want to watch CSI - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHUHHD )

19:30:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00033858 = 5.248 BTC [-]

19:39:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << elaborate plz << what's to say really ? brains aren't made for thinking specifically anymore than html is made for the web. they just got pressed into this service.

19:40:04 mircea_popescu: it's a perpetual and uphill battle to keep them more or less in line with logic

19:40:12 mircea_popescu: and that's taking a very lax view of "line" and "logic".

19:40:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: legs weren't made for ballet either. what of it.

19:45:23 mircea_popescu: actually

19:45:29 mircea_popescu: no, legs were made for ballet quite specifically.

19:46:20 mircea_popescu: <adlai> http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer << that's not what the data says.

19:46:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHX9hj )

19:46:31 mircea_popescu: according to whatever indexes they keep, qntra is above average is all.

19:47:10 mircea_popescu: like, if out of the 1bn people on the internet 100mn have kids, and out of the 1000 people on qntra 103 have kids.

19:47:28 kakobrekla: possibly

19:48:26 adlai: oic

19:48:37 adlai: it's an index relative to the internet average

19:49:16 mike_c: yes, and it's 97% certain to be within +- %50 of what it says.

19:52:07 kakobrekla: most of the time on average

19:52:17 mike_c: 11% to 60% of the time

19:52:28 kakobrekla: aha hehe

19:53:17 mircea_popescu: lol

19:54:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, the "no black people" thing was funny. i guess cazalla's putting something in the water.

19:58:27 mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind. << what mind ?

19:58:33 mircea_popescu: that's why it's one reddit, no mind.

20:01:57 mircea_popescu: sooo... icbit is finally gone after all ?

20:03:23 mike_c: just hidden.

20:03:24 mike_c: https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Trading.aspx

20:03:24 assbot: ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHYYe0 )

20:05:02 mike_c: looks like volume is in the gutter though.

20:09:06 BingoBoingo: What, did icbit just pretend to slog along long enough that they won't be down a full month before their Bitbet closes? http://bitbet.us/bet/643/icbit-se-exchange-will-shut-down-in-2014/

20:09:06 assbot: BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZxVg )

20:10:21 mircea_popescu: <adlai> oooh why was I never pointed at << no actually i think you were, like eartly on

20:10:45 BingoBoingo: Is the new scamzor MO, "STFU we outlasted the BitBet Bet?"

20:10:59 mircea_popescu: mike_c well there's this out of business bitbet

20:11:07 mircea_popescu: and ima put a hold on it because srsly it does not seem to exist anymore.

20:11:16 mircea_popescu: i mean, broken website "rebranding" and wtf is this.

20:11:28 adlai: !s http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/

20:11:29 assbot: MPEx tech stuff pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZOr6 )

20:11:30 assbot: 2 results for 'http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Ffraudsters.com%2F2013%2Fmpex-tech-stuff%2F

20:11:38 mike_c: i am glad i'm not a mod. "out of business" is not so clear in btc-land..

20:12:00 mircea_popescu: mike_c fortunately total interest is like a quarter, so nobodu's losing any sleep over it.

20:12:14 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/643/icbit-se-exchange-will-shut-down-in-2014/

20:12:14 assbot: BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZVTz )

20:13:14 mircea_popescu: oops didn't see BingoBoingo's lol.

20:16:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83434 @ 0.00035558 = 29.6675 BTC [+] {3}

20:17:11 adlai: mpex chart dead again

20:17:16 adlai: er, mpoe

20:17:25 adlai: aha, it's only dead on .ws

20:19:14 mircea_popescu: i see it of course.

20:20:00 kakobrekla: <mike_c> https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Trading.aspx == https://orderbook.net/trade

20:20:01 assbot: ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIp )

20:20:01 assbot: OrderBook.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIt )

20:20:04 kakobrekla: same thing

20:21:34 kakobrekla: too much shit when you google their name so they switch my guess

20:21:56 mircea_popescu: you don't understand how rebranding works.

20:22:05 kakobrekla: im ignorant like that.

20:25:52 dub: ignant mafakas in dis #ferguson

20:31:04 BingoBoingo: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/12/warning-fraud-alert/

20:31:05 assbot: WARNING! FRAUD ALERT | The Bitcoin Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI1WiN )

20:31:42 *: ben_vulpes is curious as to the total take

20:32:25 *: kakobrekla waits the day bitcoin foundation puts out a warning about bitcoin foundation

20:32:39 BingoBoingo: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitcointalk.org

20:32:41 assbot: bitcointalk.org Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI25T9 )

20:32:46 BingoBoingo: That decline

20:35:20 mircea_popescu: "Over the past few days we have noticed a significant uptick in complaints directed at our help desk about a fraud being perpetrated upon innocent Bitcoin users."

20:35:28 mircea_popescu: nigga wut ? what desk lol.

20:35:48 asciilifeform: i was actually disappointed to learn that the linked piece was not about us.

20:35:51 mircea_popescu: where did they find a pretentious noob blogger to write this typical sort of pretentious noob blogger shit

20:37:51 BingoBoingo: lol, gawker too today http://gawker.com/magical-thinking-bitcoin-gathers-at-disney-1644521971

20:37:52 assbot: Magical Thinking: Bitcoin Gathers at Disney ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOfKr8 )

20:40:24 rithm: favorite quote so far: "That's enough money to create a small industry of people whose sole work is just sort of talking about bitcoin all the time."

20:40:37 BingoBoingo: Well, that did happen

20:42:19 adlai: if a scammer runs, but nobody in #bitcoin-assets lost money... did it even happen?

20:42:46 rithm: define money

20:43:14 rithm: losing time might be more precious than time in some circumstances

20:43:21 rithm: s/money

20:43:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54250 @ 0.00034363 = 18.6419 BTC [-] {3}

20:44:15 adlai: this is true, it's quite distressing, this lack of fungibility... I can pay somebody else for their time, but I can't buy mine back

20:44:31 adlai: although I guess retiring is a form of buying your own time

20:46:08 mircea_popescu: adlai you ever heard of patrick harnett's bitcoin bank etc ?

20:46:47 rithm: i would regret allowing myself to listen to the scammer in the first place, more than the money, it's a gut feeling thing

20:46:49 adlai: the name rings a bell, I'm sure google can deliver, if it's really relevant that I know this particular scam (it was a scam, no?)

20:46:50 rithm: i hate everyone.

20:47:18 rithm: the misprioritized time would be devastating

20:47:20 mircea_popescu: adlai guy was pretty much a sort of vessenes of 2012

20:47:36 mircea_popescu: kept making all sorts of idiotic claims, giving "ratings" and the whole shebang

20:47:39 rithm: did the starfish pull an exit scam also

20:47:40 mircea_popescu: professional and so forth.

20:47:45 rithm: ?

20:47:51 mircea_popescu: then i lent him some btc he couldn't repay, specifically for this purpose

20:47:55 mircea_popescu: and then that was the end of him.

20:48:09 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, you lent like 200 btc, right ?

20:48:14 mircea_popescu: kinda shocking for the idiots at the time, because before i did that, everyone just schmoozied with the scamers

20:48:30 cazalla: does qntra's november report not verify? is that what davout is saying in his comment? if someone can check, would appreciate

20:48:32 mircea_popescu: as in, you know, rather than book a loss, pretend like it never happened. because if you don't agree it happened, it didn't really happen.

20:48:36 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic something like that.

20:49:08 rithm: if you didn't blink an eye and give it two seconds thought, who is to say it happened

20:49:16 *: adlai has all kinds of things to say about giving 200btc to such a person, although they're founded on initial impressions so he'll keep them to himself

20:49:19 rithm: unless you spent a lot time cementing it into your relaity

20:49:22 mircea_popescu: cazalla : the problem is that wordpress fucks up the dashes

20:49:27 mircea_popescu: put <pre> tags around the text.

20:49:46 mircea_popescu: adlai was about 500 bux at the time.

20:50:02 mircea_popescu: money well spent, because it resolved a particular set of otherwise very pernicious claims.

20:50:11 mircea_popescu: just like the entire posters affair.

20:50:18 adlai: the guy welshed for $500!?

20:50:26 adlai: ok, let's say you weren't the only mark... still

20:51:20 rithm: mircea_popescu did better at "more than a car, less than a house" than me

20:51:31 rithm: unsecured loans are not a good idea, people.

20:53:22 mircea_popescu: adlai not what it was. more of a "couldn't really refuse" sort of thing.

20:54:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2014#936968

20:54:46 assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 12:56:26; nubbins`: mircea_popescu:well if he did nubbins has some 'splainin' to do lol. <<< nope, in fact, i am also mildly perturbed by the fact that i mailed over $4,000 of goods to the guy and we didn't even get a couple measly pictures out of it

20:54:49 mircea_popescu: same principle at work.

20:55:17 mircea_popescu: yeah, it cost me some money, but it also established a point. to my benefit, and of course to anyone else's who's paying attention, but that's a freebie for small fish.

20:55:23 mircea_popescu: kinda how this entire capitalism thing works.

20:55:33 cazalla: ;;later tell davout fixed formatting, you should be able to verify now, ty for headsup

20:55:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:55:39 mircea_popescu: also kinda why any kind of non-regressive taxation is bullshit.

20:55:49 mircea_popescu: the small players always benefit more from the big players than the reverse.

20:56:19 mircea_popescu: gpg: Good signature from "Jonathan Bahr ayup

20:57:13 cazalla: don't go putting my name in the logs lol

20:57:26 mircea_popescu: lol

20:57:31 cazalla: guess too late now

20:57:32 adlai: too late, it's there alongside robby

20:58:14 mircea_popescu: i'm sure anyone who cares enough could as well have folloed the gpg sig ?

20:59:20 mircea_popescu: anyway, who here wants to go to the next porn conference ?

20:59:58 rithm: me me me me i like pron

21:00:36 rithm: i'm bringing weed, crown royal, lots of blow, and not one change of clothes

21:00:41 mircea_popescu: http://show.adultentertainmentexpo.com/ specifically.

21:00:42 assbot: Adult Entertainment Expo 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOn1Hm )

21:01:30 cazalla: step foot on american soil? i'm good

21:01:41 BingoBoingo: Looks like a job for asciilifeform or ben_vulpes

21:01:50 mircea_popescu: aren;'t you closer to las vegas ?

21:01:58 mircea_popescu: maybe petey the pimp is going. yo pete.

21:02:00 rithm: i have people i can stay with in vegas

21:02:35 asciilifeform: i almost fell down. someone showed me a new intel cpu, and it had the inscription 'vietnam.'

21:02:44 mircea_popescu: so ?

21:03:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm closer than alf further than vulpes

21:03:56 mircea_popescu: anyway, i need someone to go there and bring me a coupla affiliate managers.

21:04:08 mircea_popescu: it's the last fucking stand.

21:04:30 rithm: breaking: http://serptonia.com/scoop/

21:04:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOnVUo )

21:04:38 rithm: serp has struck again

21:04:43 rithm: and scooped the bitcoin world

21:05:52 mircea_popescu: wut?

21:06:04 BingoBoingo: !up bettycla1p

21:06:07 BingoBoingo: Hello bettycla1p

21:06:48 rithm: apparently circle has something called circle red, they've just emailed people, and the checkout allows bitcoin

21:06:57 rithm: also coinbase lists "square" as a customer

21:07:04 rithm: so you just got scooped

21:07:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21530 @ 0.00033358 = 7.182 BTC [-] {2}

21:08:32 BingoBoingo: Happens, dunno how much news square can be though. Aren't they the derpy tablet dongle company?

21:10:11 mircea_popescu: http://www.playboy.com/articles/playboy-interview-richard-dawkins << this is the worst indictment of dawkins that could ever be devised, incidentally.

21:10:13 assbot: PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOpuSa )

21:10:13 rithm: something like that

21:10:21 mircea_popescu: dude completely misses the points of theology.

21:10:31 mircea_popescu: prolly should stick to familiar terrain.

21:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61195 @ 0.00033254 = 20.3498 BTC [-] {2}

21:14:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2006 @ 0.00115549 = 2.3179 BTC [-] {14}

21:16:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00034428 = 11.9465 BTC [+] {2}

21:17:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1399 @ 0.00115 = 1.6089 BTC [+] {3}

21:17:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00033097 = 28.0332 BTC [-] {2}

21:18:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1105 @ 0.00115 = 1.2708 BTC [+] {3}

21:22:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20942 @ 0.00035277 = 7.3877 BTC [+]

21:45:15 mircea_popescu: "In investigating these claims, BitBeat viewed a bitcoin address at Blockchain.info that was cryptographically proven to belong to GAW and in which almost 28,000 bitcoins"

21:45:28 mircea_popescu: lol im sure it was.

21:46:09 BingoBoingo: Well, note that they express reservation on the point where GAW never showed them any "virgin" coinbase transactions

21:47:15 mircea_popescu: it was "cryptographically proven" lol.

21:47:25 mircea_popescu: power words!

21:48:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23536 @ 0.00033806 = 7.9566 BTC [-]

21:55:56 cazalla: "single Bitmain order to GAW worth 5 petahashes per second." <<< he twisted this as their latest order, it was their first because hey, gotta scam the funds first

21:56:34 cazalla: 28k bitcoin yet can't point out a single block they've mined

21:58:39 mircea_popescu: who's bitmain, the antminer ppl ?

21:59:22 mircea_popescu: 5ph = ~ 10k antiminers. they never made that many did they ?

22:01:19 rithm: lol at what cazalla said

22:01:32 rithm: generation address pretty easy to prove for a mining op

22:02:15 rithm: idk anything about it, I'm scamfree since 2012

22:02:46 rithm: new coin generation not something to be obscured though, that's for sure for a mining op, huge red flag

22:03:03 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno much other than they seem to ship something.

22:03:20 rithm: but iff all they have is a bunch of miners that doesn't imply new coin generation or a pool

22:03:29 rithm: just means they have a lot of miners mining away

22:03:58 rithm: obv you'd want to run your own block source and clustered hashing for failover purposes

22:04:12 rithm: or new coin generation

22:32:30 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/un-report-criticises-united-states-on-human-rights/

22:32:30 assbot: UN Report Criticises United States on Human Rights | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQ7k5 )

22:35:26 BingoBoingo: Compare and contrast to the Miami Herlad version being passed around http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article4198431.html

22:35:28 assbot: U.N. panel raps U.S. record on torture, cites Guantánamo | The Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQVWi )

22:36:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00034106 = 19.8497 BTC [+]

22:42:02 thestringpuller: ;;seen diana_coman

22:42:02 gribble: diana_coman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <diana_coman> I'm to blame for Sweete__ being here, since he pm-ed me about trading and I asked him why wasn't he in here if he was a trader

22:42:36 jurov: !mpif

22:42:37 assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021745 B (Total: 475.53 B). Delta: 0.52 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]

22:42:42 jurov: !t m f.mpif

22:42:42 assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000195 / 0.000195 / 0.000195 (4601 shares, 0.90 BTC)

23:07:25 mats_cd03: http://youtu.be/aYDfwUJzYQg

23:07:26 assbot: Primus - Wynona's Big Brown Beaver - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSVauo )

23:10:45 nubbins`: so apparently the paper that we're using for the book covers is being discontinued

23:11:40 nubbins`: if any of you live in major metropolitan centres in north america and want something in return for your time, pm me

23:12:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52741 @ 0.00033646 = 17.7452 BTC [-] {4}

23:20:46 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo omfg check this out, pravda lying about what the un said.

23:20:57 mircea_popescu: why history repeats itself so much! boring history! bad history!

23:21:49 mircea_popescu: lol nubsy has a trade network.

23:25:56 nubbins`: no kidding hey

23:26:22 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-blackmailer-given-four-year-jail-sentence/

23:26:23 assbot: Bitcoin Blackmailer Given Four Year Jail Sentence | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXqBI )

23:26:37 nubbins`: boston, seattle, annapolis on the hunt already ;p

23:28:17 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, it's why we needed a qntra to serve as the billboard next to the city's gates. Gotta put indictments somewhere.

23:29:01 mircea_popescu: lol

23:29:33 BingoBoingo: Re: lizard hitler, Deposed? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/usa-hunters-find-bullets-from-american-civil-war-in-185-year-old-alligators-hide/

23:29:35 assbot: USA: Hunters Find Bullets from American Civil War in 185-Year Old Alligator’s Hide ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXRfy )

23:32:33 mircea_popescu: which side ?

23:34:18 BingoBoingo: They are guessing confederate

23:35:29 BingoBoingo: But... can only trust the pravda so much. Prolly from when Obama's great grandfather was sent on a secret mission to assasinate the great reptillian

23:35:48 mircea_popescu: lol

23:38:24 mircea_popescu: "DAWKINS: No, never. But suppose an intermediate species hadn?t gone extinct. Suppose relict populations are discovered in the African jungle. In order to deny chimpanzees rights, you would have to set up apartheid-like courts to decide whether this individual counts as human. Because it?s a continuum. As a practical matter, the intermediates haven?t survived, so it?s possible to give humans basic rights and gi

23:38:24 mircea_popescu: ve chimpanzees none. But I think it?s a worthwhile argument."

23:38:53 mircea_popescu: it's a worhtwhile argument that the only reason blacks aren't chimps is that some middle links died off ?!

23:39:08 mircea_popescu: dude this playboy interview is one of the stupidest things i ever read.

23:39:15 mircea_popescu: i had a much better impression on dawkins

23:41:14 BingoBoingo: Everyone gets a dissapoint today!

23:48:29 gernika: Anyone who has travelled to Buenos Aires have some recommendations for getting pesos once there? I assume the airport kiosks are total ripoff.

23:48:43 mircea_popescu: !up UltimateNate

23:48:56 mircea_popescu: gernika florida.

23:49:21 mircea_popescu: should get 12-13 per dollar.

23:49:37 danielpbarron: how convenient, the intermediate species don't exist... but the Bible is still wrong because science!

23:50:35 gernika: mircea_popescu: Calle Florida. Got it. Thanks.

23:51:10 undata: danielpbarron: the bible can be wrong all on its own, though science can help

23:53:10 undata: As far as *why* there aren't intermediate species left, there are plenty of possible answers. One of them might be that early human populations were into cracking competing skulls

23:53:47 jurov: !deed http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201411.txt.asc

23:53:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT0YnA )

23:53:58 jurov: where's notary?

23:54:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5963 @ 0.00033484 = 1.9967 BTC [-]

23:54:52 mircea_popescu: ya srsly

23:54:54 mircea_popescu: punkman ?

23:54:58 danielpbarron: .deed http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201411.txt.asc

23:54:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT14M2 )

23:57:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00033034 = 9.266 BTC [-]

23:59:24 gernika: danielpbarron: What are the criteria for something to be an intermediate species? How long does something have to have been around and how large does the population have to be for it to be classified as such? Seems like for populations that were at no time higher than the hundreds of thousands it would be very unlikely to expect to find fossils. Google tells me the peak population of neanderthals

23:59:25 gernika: was 70,000.