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Transcript for 02-02-2014, 2799 lines:

00:00:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.171 BTC [-]

00:01:04 deadweasel: that guy can't get farther from her.

00:01:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

00:01:31 deadweasel: who is that fool?

00:01:38 Vexual: goldfinger

00:02:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.171 = 0.342 BTC [-]

00:02:58 kleeck: :)

00:03:12 kleeck: Good evening to you as well, mircea_popescu. :D

00:03:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.171 = 0.342 BTC [-]

00:04:19 kleeck: Been away for a bit, wanted to focus on my new job for a while. Settled in now so I can bullshit with you guys.

00:05:15 ThickAsThieves: kleeck is smidge, or ?

00:05:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC {2}

00:06:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 955 @ 0.00091541 = 0.8742 BTC [+]

00:07:14 kleeck: LOL

00:07:21 kleeck: ThickAsThieves, round 2?

00:07:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.171 BTC [-]

00:07:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

00:07:36 kleeck: I missed this channel.

00:08:06 kleeck: Kleeck is TAT, or ?

00:08:29 kleeck: What's the securities drama, guys?

00:08:35 kleeck: Fill me in.

00:08:59 ThickAsThieves: www.bitcointalk.org

00:09:13 ThickAsThieves: www.fraudsters.com

00:09:21 ThickAsThieves: http://assass.headfucking.net/

00:09:26 kleeck: Oh god.

00:09:27 ThickAsThieves: now you are all caught up!

00:09:30 kleeck: Don't link me that shiti.

00:09:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.171 = 0.342 BTC [-]

00:09:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

00:09:49 kleeck: I knew fraudsters was going to be linked. I just knew it.

00:10:05 ThickAsThieves: no you didnt

00:10:15 kleeck: I did!

00:10:22 kleeck: I even put up a bitbet on it

00:10:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.171 = 0.342 BTC [-] {2}

00:12:09 ThickAsThieves: Evil thought of the moment: Will we eventually see a trend of tricking people into losing their bitcoins? (Decreasing supply)

00:12:34 ThickAsThieves: not scamming, just half-scamming

00:13:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.56000121 = 1.12 BTC [-]

00:13:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC {2}

00:14:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC

00:14:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.171 BTC [-]

00:16:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.171 BTC [-]

00:16:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

00:17:24 pankkake: the amounts propably won't be enough for the cost

00:17:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00569894 = 0.1425 BTC [+] {3}

00:17:55 pankkake: (the cost of tricking people)

00:20:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.171 BTC [-]

00:21:25 ThickAsThieves: passive aggressive scamming

00:23:51 Vexual: pankakke selling boobies

00:24:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1097 @ 0.00042 = 0.4607 BTC [-] {3}

00:25:07 kleeck: He's got to be selling something, right?

00:25:19 kleeck: Is he done plugging Bitbet every 5 minutes?

00:25:42 Vexual: bow bubudaba

00:25:57 pankkake: I am trying to buy boobies, would be more exact

00:25:58 KRS1: o/ Vexual

00:26:09 Vexual: he

00:26:21 kleeck: Are you bitbetting how many boobies you'll buy/

00:26:41 kleeck: because that's important. You don't really mean anything unless you bitbet it.

00:26:44 pankkake: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2014#473235

00:26:56 mircea_popescu: <pankkake> the amounts propably won't be enough for the cost << this is kind-of the birth of dragons.

00:27:14 mircea_popescu: people who dealt in thousands are going to be quite uninterested in helping idiots misplace their half bitcent

00:27:51 pankkake: as for number of boobies, wise words from http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=35

00:27:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC {2}

00:28:40 pankkake: but even if you have bitcents, people losing bitcents won't make you significantly richer

00:28:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00092896 = 29.3551 BTC [+]

00:29:25 mircea_popescu: in this sense people don't use ebay because people sending them 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of all usd won't make them significantly richer

00:29:30 mircea_popescu: you're thinking like a dragon.

00:30:03 pankkake: I believe the discussion was about making others lose, but not lose to you

00:30:16 mircea_popescu: " helping idiots misplace their half bitcent"

00:30:28 Apocalyptic: if you send coins to limbo, every holder profits

00:30:39 pankkake: yes, I am not arguing against that

00:30:41 Apocalyptic: so that's kinda "lose to you" in part at least situation

00:31:09 mircea_popescu: well otherwise, what exatly are the fixed costs to scamming ?

00:31:29 mircea_popescu: or weren't you really referring to what ThickAsThieves was saying ?

00:32:22 pankkake: I feel like no one is understanding each other

00:32:37 Vexual: bow bubudaba

00:33:11 mircea_popescu: lol irc, it happens.

00:33:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

00:34:58 pankkake: MPOE-PR didn't take my bait :(

00:35:08 KRS1: .bait

00:35:25 KRS1: ;;seen ozbot

00:35:25 gribble: ozbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 54 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <ozbot> 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 610 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.0561% in 3d 12h 14m 55s

00:35:26 Vexual: bots mining atc

00:35:35 KRS1: wtf mining? I need my baits

00:36:01 Namworld: Found a nice graph. I like it. http://i.imgur.com/1srrQRV.jpg

00:36:03 mircea_popescu: pankkake wha was that ?

00:36:32 Namworld: The heat and feet part makes it.

00:37:00 pankkake: boobs for altcoins

00:37:33 pankkake: the bitcoin part is almost irrelevant

00:37:43 pankkake: what hardware is that?

00:37:54 mircea_popescu: that cryptsy thing looks exactly as retarded as if burnside had come back from the dead.

00:38:06 mircea_popescu: is it his ?

00:38:11 Vexual: 38gh id say pankkake

00:42:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.179 BTC [+]

00:43:22 mircea_popescu: https://www.cryptsy.com/pages/jobs ahahah best jobs section yet.

00:44:36 Apocalyptic: heh

00:45:15 kleeck: yeah... hilarious..?

00:45:39 mircea_popescu: where you get to "hiring lawyers, with a degree or comparable experience and attention to detail" it becomes quite hilarious.

00:45:49 mircea_popescu: perhaps they also sew footballs.

00:47:52 mircea_popescu: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4359 << generally a good read for eager minds and benkay.

00:48:16 pankkake: fucking fuck, "Don't access Project Gutenberg from hosted servers."

00:48:24 pankkake: my IP is hated by half the internet

00:49:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

00:49:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.24999999 BTC [+]

00:50:19 Vexual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_Braille#Hausa_Braille

00:54:24 Apocalyptic: what happened to ozbot btw ?

00:57:43 Vexual: unfunded?

00:58:26 Apocalyptic: I miss his diff estimates

00:59:16 Vexual: 2 hours in 3 days must br fairly close

00:59:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17100002 BTC [-]

01:03:16 KRS1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DALvNCbgcKg

01:04:08 KRS1: Birdman - Fire Flame

01:05:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.08033333 = 0.482 BTC [-] {2}

01:05:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00281432 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {2}

01:06:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

01:06:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00280902 = 0.1152 BTC [-] {4}

01:08:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.08 = 0.48 BTC [-] {2}

01:09:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

01:10:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17200003 BTC [+]

01:11:15 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj-z-BbvlHs

01:11:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17200002 BTC [-]

01:12:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.172 = 0.344 BTC [-]

01:13:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

01:14:21 Vexual: .exchange 100 ATC BTC

01:14:35 Vexual: nope

01:16:28 ThickAsThieves: http://bitcoinbigfoot.com/coinapult-sponsors-plan-%E0%B8%BF-brochure-bitcoin-bigfoot/

01:16:37 ThickAsThieves: first time i see the baht in a url

01:17:17 ThickAsThieves: i cant even read past the CSS

01:17:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.172 = 0.688 BTC [-]

01:18:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

01:18:46 ThickAsThieves: bitcoin in html http://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin.html

01:19:33 nubbins`: why the picture of gob bluth in that bigfoot link?

01:19:41 nubbins`: lel, i kid ;(

01:19:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2971 @ 0.00092903 = 2.7601 BTC [+]

01:20:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.172 = 0.344 BTC [-]

01:20:45 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 1200 @ 0.00166806 = 2.0017 BTC [+]

01:20:59 mircea_popescu: !t m x.eur

01:21:00 assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00166806 / 0.00166806 / 0.00166806 (1200 shares, 2.00 BTC), 7D: 0.00166114 / 0.00167482 / 0.00170089 (5000 shares, 8.37 BTC), 30D: 0.0016245 / 0.00179463 / 0.002 (20739 shares, 37.22 BTC)

01:25:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

01:26:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.172 = 0.344 BTC [-]

01:28:16 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=84995

01:28:22 mircea_popescu: dude! they gave up!

01:28:34 mircea_popescu: this loss for bitcoin retardedness shall never be bridged.

01:33:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.58700102 = 1.174 BTC [+] {2}

01:34:58 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 850 @ 0.00166806 = 1.4179 BTC [+]

01:46:23 Vexual: hi benkay, how goes the trivia answers?

01:47:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04750011 = 0.2375 BTC [-]

01:48:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.0475 = 1.14 BTC [-] {2}

01:53:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [-]

01:54:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.061 = 0.183 BTC [-]

02:00:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.24999996 BTC [+]

02:09:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 32 @ 0.00448889 = 0.1436 BTC [+] {3}

02:11:51 diametric: ugh i hate when the channel lights up because my name was said but i was afk long enough for it to disappear on scrollback.

02:12:52 Duffer1: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/

02:13:26 diametric: ahh yes

02:13:45 Duffer1: ^.^

02:14:58 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4886026#msg4886026

02:15:13 mircea_popescu: countdown to joffrey headexplosion in 3..2...

02:15:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

02:16:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.24999999 = 0.75 BTC [+] {2}

02:17:36 benkay: hewing and hawing?

02:17:43 benkay: chopping and chortling?

02:18:11 mircea_popescu: skippin' an' scrappin'

02:18:45 benkay: would someone kindly a) write my name in channel and b) pm me?

02:18:53 benkay: s/name/handle

02:19:04 Duffer1: benkay

02:19:40 benkay: excellent, thanks Duffer1

02:19:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.00550211 = 0.4677 BTC [-] {2}

02:20:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

02:22:02 benkay: what's news, gents?

02:22:48 jurov: benkay pm

02:23:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 158 @ 0.0055 = 0.869 BTC [-]

02:24:21 jurov: benkay lots of lulz

02:24:32 jurov: half of which i missed cuz trying to code

02:24:40 jurov: benaky

02:24:42 benkay: o you should offload that

02:24:45 jurov: *benkay

02:25:00 jurov: ;;tell benkay benkay

02:25:04 benkay: rewrite coinbr in clojure and i'll take it off your hands

02:25:19 benkay: ;;tell jurov jurov

02:25:25 mircea_popescu: lol

02:25:37 mircea_popescu: clojure is a thing now ?!

02:25:46 benkay: lisp devours all

02:26:20 mircea_popescu: (o(k))

02:26:41 jurov: yes, we can do, there's convertor from python :DDD

02:26:58 mircea_popescu: ahahaha automated conversions to lisp are the tits.

02:27:18 jurov: (,)(,)

02:27:26 benkay: i'd love to see the 'turing equivalent conversion' of a python class tangle to lisp

02:27:32 benkay: har lisp is tits!

02:29:31 jurov: haha zactly.sqlalchemy is practically built out of class tangle, i just started to understand it

02:30:09 jurov: (un)fortunately, it seems equally impenetrable to pentesters

02:30:31 benkay: OOP as security

02:30:35 jurov: only now, after a year some figured out how to reach json decoder

02:30:59 jurov: which isn't actually used for anything

02:31:11 benkay: what did the attacks look like?

02:31:50 jurov: malformed utf, sql injections, various tries to subvert int(function)

02:31:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.24999996 BTC [-]

02:32:07 benkay: (much wailing and gnashing of teeth, Vexual, but my pattern-finding is getting better and faster)

02:33:15 benkay: Vexual: I also found the instrument mircea_popescu put together to go short pirateat40

02:33:19 benkay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77268.msg858592#msg858592

02:33:56 mircea_popescu: benkay wd

02:36:53 jurov: oh and people try acunetix all the time.. if someone knows of acunetix exploit, talk to me

02:37:08 mircea_popescu: heh half my fraudsters errorlog is full of that

02:37:19 mircea_popescu: kidz be haxing into the credits yo

02:39:22 benkay: so MP how did PPTAPR/MAY work out for you? you underwrote what i understand to be insurance against BS&T and I imagine sold it for more than the .00128 face value?

02:40:44 benkay: dah do'h no it only paid out if bs&t didn't have a credit event

02:41:14 mircea_popescu: right

02:41:33 mircea_popescu: it actually worked great because ppl bought huge

02:41:43 mircea_popescu: then i dun recall what stupid sidestep they did and ppl panicked

02:41:47 mircea_popescu: sold into my lowball buys

02:42:00 mircea_popescu: was like a week the whole thing

02:43:24 Duffer1: MPOE-PR: taking people down a few pegs, even if they only started with 2

02:44:00 mircea_popescu: lol

02:44:45 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves pankkake seems atc has a quite solid bottom in nao.

02:44:54 mircea_popescu: and it didn't even cost me that much btc

02:44:55 mircea_popescu: lolz.

02:45:12 herbijudlestoids: afternoon fellows

02:45:13 benkay: altcoin is a thing now?

02:45:29 herbijudlestoids: what a saturday night!

02:45:34 mircea_popescu: benkay they drug me into it.

02:45:41 benkay: someone save some for me

02:45:51 benkay: i'm too busy doing historical research to mine the -asset altcoin

02:45:59 benkay: goddamnit i'm going to die broke with a donation address on my blog

02:46:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18512 @ 0.00093125 = 17.2393 BTC [+]

02:47:37 mircea_popescu: so help you.

02:47:40 jurov: cuz your toolchain is dusty and thus nobody can pay you

02:48:01 benkay: jurov my bitcoins are safe in your keeping.

02:48:06 benkay: HA

02:48:08 benkay: best wallet ever

02:48:13 benkay: GPG contracts with trusted individuals.

02:48:28 pankkake: someone sold altcoins?

02:49:07 jurov: don't provocate, or i'll sell the contract to mircea

02:49:21 jurov: like he offered yest

02:49:25 benkay: have at

02:49:33 mircea_popescu: wait, what did i offer ?

02:49:40 benkay: nothing would please me more than for mp to owe me btc

02:49:46 benkay: wait that's not true at all

02:49:53 benkay: definitely up there though

02:50:25 mircea_popescu: lol so lend me a btc.

02:51:23 benkay: ;;gettrust mircea_popescu

02:51:23 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=mircea_popescu | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mircea_popescu | Rated since: Fri Jul 22 11:04:26 2011

02:51:33 herbijudlestoids: so, todays "i hope this even remotely is interesting" timeseries is the un-annualised rolling 20 tick volatility of 20 tick returns for ~1wk http://imgur.com/ncCX4Mq

02:51:39 benkay: ;;gettrust jurov

02:51:39 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user jurov: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=jurov | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=jurov | Rated since: Fri Jan 20 18:16:32 2012

02:51:46 benkay: i can't deal with either of you right now :(

02:52:00 herbijudlestoids: obviously some timestamps would make this more useful

02:52:45 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.

02:52:50 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#471309 this was mircea's offer

02:53:01 mircea_popescu: also bear in mind it's a scam as per https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103

02:53:25 benkay: how does that thread have 14 pages!?

02:53:49 mircea_popescu: because of all the arguments.

02:54:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00092903 = 11.1484 BTC [-]

02:54:32 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i think it'll be much more interesting in 1-2 monmths, that thing

02:56:06 jurov: ;;eauth jurov

02:56:07 gribble: Request successful for user jurov, hostmask jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/677ABD62D0AEE7D7

02:56:31 jurov: gribble why won't you respond in pm?

02:56:44 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: yes, i guess what im trying to do right now is see what needs to happen in my data processing scripts etc to make this automated and easy for me

02:56:58 herbijudlestoids: right now its about 5 commands when i wake up, id like to just get an email of the graphics

02:57:11 herbijudlestoids: hopefully you guys dont mind me spamming various images until then :P

02:57:20 jurov: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:072aced25f3df57050d15f4a1727256a97805396c485d39121f254cc

02:57:20 gribble: You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7

02:57:26 benkay: mircea_popescu: you're welcome to assume jurov's debt to me. i don't think i even get a say.

02:57:33 herbijudlestoids: for example today i learned i need to rbind with timestamps in the timeseries

02:58:11 jurov: lol

02:58:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25215 @ 0.00092893 = 23.423 BTC [-] {4}

02:59:10 jurov: ;;rate benkay 1 good work on mpex missing manual

02:59:11 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user benkay has been recorded.

02:59:13 mircea_popescu: benkay i was just dicking around lol

02:59:30 benkay: well like i said i don't think i even get a say

02:59:39 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids nope. alos, cron does wonders

03:00:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

03:02:44 jurov: ;;rate Vexual 1 good music and fun overall

03:02:45 gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.

03:02:55 jurov: kick him

03:03:38 mircea_popescu: wtf

03:03:39 Vexual: ouchie

03:03:53 jurov: ;;rate asciilifeform 1 really knows his shit

03:03:54 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.

03:04:17 jurov: ;;rate asciilifeform 1 really knows his stuff

03:04:46 jurov: ok ok i'm done

03:05:02 mircea_popescu: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has not been recorded because shit.

03:05:18 jurov: :/

03:05:20 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 1.

03:05:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 588 @ 0.00093125 = 0.5476 BTC [+]

03:07:43 KRS1: ethereum looks like a really strong project

03:08:01 mircea_popescu: why ?

03:08:06 mircea_popescu: i never really looked into it

03:08:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.19 BTC [-]

03:10:11 jurov: ;;rate davout 3

03:10:13 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.

03:11:18 jurov: forgot anyone?

03:12:19 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: hmm not sure i understood what you mean? all i was saying is i need to work the timestamps into my script so that R correctly interprets them and makes it easy for me to have timestamped graphs

03:12:24 jurov: ;;rate scrat 2

03:12:45 herbijudlestoids: the timestamps are actually being recorded by the irc bot

03:13:04 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user scrat has been recorded.

03:13:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

03:14:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

03:14:52 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids> right now its about 5 commands when i wake up, <<

03:15:17 mircea_popescu: jurov so are you now running coinroll ?

03:15:29 jurov: yes almost

03:15:48 jurov: it was complicated process and still not finished

03:17:40 herbijudlestoids: this interview is supposedly about decentralisation of energy but seems to cover the idea that crowdfunding, p2p lending etc: "Even the assistant director general of the Bank of England, Andy Haldane has said this is showing signs of becoming such a trend, such a potential mega-trend, that it could disenfranchise the main banks, the high street banks in the way that I think some of these trends in renewable energy

03:20:19 herbijudlestoids: i guess this is the article he was referencing http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9749573/Crowdfunding-could-revolutionise-lending-says-Andrew-Haldane.html

03:20:51 herbijudlestoids: definitely considering the aggregate demand for junk bonds it does seem there is a lot of stupid people out there willing to fund anything

03:21:02 mircea_popescu: derp.

03:21:17 mircea_popescu: imo "crowdfunding" as in, kickfunder etc is a fad not unlike social media.

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: then again, i'm the god of bias.

03:21:54 herbijudlestoids: i personally dont disagree, but interesting to hear someone from BoE say that technology could kill banking

03:22:28 herbijudlestoids: i guess its probly more efficient for the economy for people to fund bad ideas directly than have to buy junk bonds in the bad ideas

03:22:28 lewicki: not if they all commit suicide first...

03:22:36 mircea_popescu: yeah, interesting to me too. in the following sense : a londoner goes to the country, and upon hearing a goose meow he expresses his astonishment : listen to the cock neigh!

03:22:49 Duffer1: i wish people would stop throwing money at kickstarters

03:23:00 Duffer1: until kickstarters start offering equity

03:23:08 mircea_popescu: anyway. bad ideas being funded is a serious problem for any society.

03:23:09 herbijudlestoids: they cant offer equity

03:23:27 herbijudlestoids: if they offer equity then they fall under the various financial regulations

03:23:52 Vexual: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19d2au_jonwayne-the-come-up-ft-scoop-deville_lifestyle

03:23:54 herbijudlestoids: basically they need to list on MPOE :P

03:23:59 Duffer1: hehe

03:24:03 Duffer1: i'd love to see that

03:24:27 herbijudlestoids: somehow i doubt most kickstarters would be considered viable by mircea_popescu for listing though :P

03:24:36 Duffer1: exactly

03:25:48 herbijudlestoids: i wish cunts would stop hyping bitcloud :(

03:26:13 Vexual: whats bitcloud?

03:26:43 herbijudlestoids: approx the same idea as urbit or tornet, rehyped and the tech media are cum guzzling it hard

03:26:49 Vexual: ah

03:27:04 herbijudlestoids: except the difference is both urbit and tornet actually have some code committed somewhere

03:27:08 herbijudlestoids: bitcloud has nothing.

03:27:19 mircea_popescu: but bitcloud has bit and cloud

03:27:23 mircea_popescu: you understand nothing

03:27:25 Vexual: sounds good

03:27:47 mircea_popescu: actually, did moldbug&co ever manage to stop urbit from crashing ?

03:27:48 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: my official job title is Director of Cloud Operations, so i like to think i know something :)

03:27:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.24310363 = 1.7017 BTC

03:28:10 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids something you may know, but this is hindering you from seeing the true pure beauty of Bit and Cloud!

03:28:14 benkay: mircea_popescu: it's somewhat less leaky and crashy

03:28:37 mircea_popescu: if you had done nothing but reddit, retardopedia and lesssex for the past two decades...

03:28:50 mircea_popescu: benkay so how long has it been online currently ?

03:29:28 benkay: hah got me

03:29:36 benkay: and what do you mean by "online" and "long"?

03:29:40 mircea_popescu: ok, did it crash in the current month ?

03:29:40 mircea_popescu: lmao

03:29:43 herbijudlestoids: has anyone come up with any useful use cases for urbit? all i could think of was a mutt clone lol

03:29:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.19 = 1.33 BTC [-]

03:29:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

03:29:53 benkay: since last universe reset or whatever they call it?

03:30:04 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-this-urbit-thing/

03:30:07 mircea_popescu: yes.

03:31:13 Vexual: i think bitcloud should be a proof of work image board with extra stenography

03:31:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.19 BTC [-]

03:32:49 Vexual: or a small amount of visible water vapour in the sky

03:32:52 Duffer1: ya there's a reason why mpoe-pr recommends taking a year off to read first :P

03:32:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.19 BTC [-]

03:32:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

03:33:24 jurov: Vexual: steganography

03:33:32 Vexual: ty jurov

03:34:02 herbijudlestoids: god fucken damnit...just saw bitalpha.com

03:34:09 herbijudlestoids: btcalpha.com even

03:34:22 herbijudlestoids: stupid postmodern internet

03:34:47 mircea_popescu: what;'s wrong with it ?

03:34:56 Vexual: too tumbler

03:35:18 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: nothing, its just kind of what i would like to do :P

03:35:21 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/people-have-made-blogs/ << see here herbijudlestoids, avoid such surprises.

03:35:25 mircea_popescu: it's actually mike's blog.

03:35:29 jurov: have you seen live.coinbr.com ? it's timeless :DDDD

03:35:33 mircea_popescu: hehehe

03:35:41 mircea_popescu: i linked him earlier iirc

03:36:24 mircea_popescu: one of the things i enjoy most about bitcoin is all the shit people don't know. ot

03:36:29 mircea_popescu: it's like... :D

03:36:40 Vexual: thats me

03:36:51 Vexual: im waiting for benkays cheat sheet

03:37:08 herbijudlestoids: yo, so based on the bitcointalk forum, which is i assume populated by heavily qualified financial analysts, wasnt the price of MPOE supposed to be "negative" this morning?

03:37:15 herbijudlestoids: i was looking forward to scooping up the entire company

03:37:21 herbijudlestoids: and having mircea_popescu pay me for the privilege

03:37:38 Vexual: snooze you lose

03:37:42 mircea_popescu: ^

03:37:44 herbijudlestoids: did you already buy it Vexual ?

03:37:56 herbijudlestoids: can i buy it off you for -3BTC?

03:38:13 Vexual: mpoe?

03:38:14 mircea_popescu: Vexual at the rate benkay is posting on that cascade of his, the cheatsheet will need a flatbed truck.

03:38:41 Vexual: ah the trivia list

03:38:46 Vexual: no i didnt buy it

03:38:55 mircea_popescu: also, benkay baby, more naked girl / dressed pitbull pics. you've lernered nothing off fraudsters ?

03:38:57 Vexual: i was hoping it would be free then returned in kind

03:39:28 Vexual: but i should pay for it more than mp should

03:39:42 Vexual: hes already got it in his head

03:39:50 mircea_popescu: all i have is like these altcoins

03:39:51 jurov: benkay is actually paid in debts

03:40:13 jurov: Vexual so you should make one first

03:40:15 Vexual: hes gonna pop out overed in gold

03:40:22 Vexual: one what?

03:40:23 herbijudlestoids: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ArXcPfoCIAE1r0G.jpg

03:41:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.061 = 0.122 BTC [-]

03:41:16 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids did you see all the failed darknet drug marketplaces btw ?

03:41:32 mircea_popescu: speaking of php. the stuff had me in a state of ptss for a few hours

03:41:51 Vexual: wait if bitwasp gets finished, that'll be like altcoin pools of drug markets

03:41:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2014#471866 <

03:42:03 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i did, after reading about how silk road went down they wer eall so fucking stupid

03:42:09 herbijudlestoids: but there is a new one i read about, running on i2p

03:42:14 herbijudlestoids: sounds much more secure

03:42:25 Apocalyptic: security-wise it's a disaster

03:42:43 herbijudlestoids: this one http://www.dailydot.com/crime/deep-web-black-markets-beyond-tor-i2p/

03:42:58 mircea_popescu: lay it on us Apocalyptic

03:42:58 herbijudlestoids: "The Marketplace"

03:43:48 herbijudlestoids: if they manage to take that one down i will be impressed

03:44:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15081 @ 0.00093244 = 14.0621 BTC [+]

03:44:13 Apocalyptic: it appears that almost every new marketplace is prone to basic SQL injections

03:44:21 herbijudlestoids: lol

03:44:44 Apocalyptic: more drama on that on #bitcoin-hidden everyday

03:45:21 mircea_popescu: anything specific about this i2p thing ?

03:46:02 herbijudlestoids: asking me?

03:46:08 mircea_popescu: no, Apocalyptic

03:47:04 Apocalyptic: not that I recall of, let me grep the logs

03:47:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

03:47:42 herbijudlestoids: at least judging from that article, it sounds like th eguys who set it up have tried their hardest to learn from the failures of the other morons

03:47:55 herbijudlestoids: i still really cant believe the security behind silk road was so fucken poor

03:48:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]

03:48:28 mircea_popescu: why not ?

03:48:30 Vexual: the real dpr is in tokyo stinking of ylang ylang

03:48:55 TomServo: I really hope so.

03:49:06 TomServo: Like herbijudlestoids said.. it's sad otherwise.

03:49:06 mircea_popescu: i thought he was with elvis

03:49:07 Vexual: poor zombie tho

03:49:30 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i just kind of assumed that anyone who wanted to setup a website like that might be the kind of person who knows even the first thing about security

03:49:50 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you know, this entire generation of twentyspomething fuckups strictly exists because we keep presuming.

03:50:10 mircea_popescu: exactly these types of presumtpions. they're like some mutant cockroaches which have somehow adapted to live in the cracks of this presumption.

03:50:42 herbijudlestoids: yep, well you can bet the big vendors on those sites are now doing their "security due diligence" before they list products on a given market

03:50:43 Apocalyptic: <herbijudlestoids> i still really cant believe the security behind silk road was so fucken poor // then you won't believe this

03:50:49 Apocalyptic: http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/01/29/cantina-marketplace-pwnd-admin-password-was-password1/

03:50:55 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you can bet no such thing.

03:51:21 mircea_popescu: you know, no ammount of salmon being eaten by bears makes the salmon wear fucking german ww1 helmets.

03:51:31 mircea_popescu: they just take their chances. they survive by schooling.

03:51:32 Vexual: cool ones do

03:51:35 mircea_popescu: that's your us druggies.

03:52:24 jurov: it's not just twentysomethings. the password for national office that gives security clearances

03:52:28 herbijudlestoids: lullllllwut Apocalyptic

03:52:30 jurov: was "mbusr123"

03:52:43 jurov: guess what was the office named

03:52:50 Vexual: maoney bursary

03:52:51 Vexual: ?

03:53:05 jurov: NBU SR

03:53:15 jurov: and the pass was nbusr123

03:53:22 Vexual: ah

03:53:25 mircea_popescu: derp.

03:53:30 herbijudlestoids: HAHA

03:53:36 Vexual: little bit mafia there with the trascription

03:53:37 herbijudlestoids: im still reading

03:54:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]

03:54:16 Apocalyptic: herbijudlestoids, that's the state of the average marketplace out there

03:54:24 Apocalyptic: just unreal

03:54:45 herbijudlestoids: baaaa

03:54:55 herbijudlestoids: i guess the barrier to entry is just too low

03:55:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

03:55:17 Vexual: if i wanted to use doog drugs id move to addis abar and have excellent herbal amphetamines

03:56:19 Vexual: *good

03:56:45 Vexual: coffee and khat

03:56:46 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you know that's the exact link i gave you earlier in the logs :D

03:57:09 mircea_popescu: but yes. freedom = no barrier to entry = chaos. nttawwt.

03:57:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.062 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2}

03:58:44 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: which link? i happen to be retarded and often forget things that i dont immediately note down

03:59:42 herbijudlestoids: iv got "So this urbit thing" and "People have made blogs" saved in my list, as well as "The stuff all good conspiracy theories start with" because i wanna see the photo of MPOE-PR :P

04:01:05 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2014#471866 <

04:01:55 herbijudlestoids: ah right right

04:01:55 herbijudlestoids: i see

04:02:40 herbijudlestoids: my main concern is if you setup a legit, correctly secured darknet site, its just going to make you an even bigger target for the NSA really

04:03:19 herbijudlestoids: youll be going up against a very scary adversary who will hand your details over to the FBI or local equivalent as soon as they de-anon your server

04:03:41 herbijudlestoids: not sure the risk/reward is skewed in your favor

04:03:43 Vexual: or visa versa

04:03:51 mircea_popescu: why would you be in the us ?

04:03:56 Apocalyptic: ^

04:04:19 herbijudlestoids: why would your location matter to the NSA?

04:04:23 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLixRMmzsy4

04:04:37 herbijudlestoids: in fact being in the US is pretty much the only legal defense against NSA spying lol

04:04:44 mircea_popescu: herp.

04:04:48 Vexual: :)

04:04:57 mircea_popescu: 1. nsa is nowhere near as competent as they'd like you believe

04:05:07 mircea_popescu: 2. most jurisdictions couldn't give less of a shit about the us and its problems.

04:05:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

04:05:49 mircea_popescu: the idea is to implement technically sound solutions. this means god himself can not de-anon your server.

04:05:58 mircea_popescu: if you can't do that, you've got little business doing it in the first place.

04:06:15 mircea_popescu: it'd be like bitcoin relying not on chain but on people being nice to each other.

04:06:17 Apocalyptic: i really don't see HK or Russia extradite a drug marketplace owner

04:06:21 Vexual: make it cant break it only existed very recently

04:08:07 herbijudlestoids: the way i see it workin gis something like this: FBI discovers new online drug marketplace, probably tipped off from dutch intelligence or similar agency who actually has the knowhow. they poke it, cant de-anon it, and so they call up the NSA to take a poke. initial pokes are unsuccessful so they go all out against it.

04:08:35 herbijudlestoids: somehow i feel like the NSA is probably quite competent enough considering the resources at their disposal ;)

04:08:48 mircea_popescu: except they have a list of things to do

04:08:53 mircea_popescu: and a list of people that can do it.

04:08:59 Vexual: yeah snowden tok it with him

04:09:02 mircea_popescu: and the worst morale in the history of secret servicing.

04:09:08 mircea_popescu: now... the 2nd list is always shorter.

04:09:18 mircea_popescu: and so... no. they don't have the resources to anytihng.

04:09:38 mircea_popescu: besides, the nsa is dead. the us is scrambling to create a new, actually secret replacement, while pretending nsa is still a thing.

04:09:46 mircea_popescu: that puts further pressure on the manpower available.

04:10:00 herbijudlestoids: s/NSA/5eyes spy conglomerate

04:10:21 herbijudlestoids: when i say NSA i dont mean NSA so much as any sigint that has permissions for global ops

04:10:25 mircea_popescu: you work in hosting, right ? how many competent sysadmins are there, that you can actually motivate to do the job ?

04:10:31 mircea_popescu: and how many jobs need doing ?

04:10:58 Vexual: none

04:11:06 herbijudlestoids: true that unemployment for good ops is very low to nonexistent in our particular sector atm

04:11:27 herbijudlestoids: mostly i write the puppet modules and we hire meatsacks to watch errors

04:12:39 mircea_popescu: so then what do you think, the problem eases as you go up ?

04:12:43 mircea_popescu: it doesn't ease. it aggravates.

04:13:24 mircea_popescu: what particular sector ? it's the same all through. how many db experts are there ?

04:13:30 mircea_popescu: what atm ? it's been the case since 1960.

04:14:17 mircea_popescu: smart people are few and far between. things they can do are the grass o nthe fields. monstrous socialist regimes have this problem compounded by the fact that they're only popular with idiots.

04:14:26 mircea_popescu: the us may hire as many Fargo policewomen as it can pay.

04:14:39 mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if it can currently hire any ONE of the top five crackers in any field.

04:14:52 mircea_popescu: even if it had infinite money, which it clearly does not.

04:15:08 Vexual: they already been to hawaii and smoked the pakalolo for more than 100kpa

04:15:59 KRS1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIUZlzd37sI

04:17:59 Vexual: it was written 1000s or years ago

04:18:05 mircea_popescu: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/is-your-money-safe-at-the-bank-an-economist-says-no-and-withdraws-his/

04:18:58 Vexual: o/

04:19:56 herbijudlestoids: haha i saw that

04:20:22 mircea_popescu: "Someone should start a bank (or maybe someone has) that charges (rather than pays) interest and does not make loans. "

04:20:46 mircea_popescu: this is what, amsterdamsche wisselbank

04:21:11 mircea_popescu: fucktards with their "let's make the world fair" as if it weren't managed to bomb us all the fucking way to the stone age.

04:21:22 mircea_popescu: the once glorious wester civilisation has to restart at fucking 1600 ?!

04:21:51 mircea_popescu: flay a libertard alive today. he's earned it. then salt the wounds and make his mother watch.

04:22:09 Vexual: pay a nigerian

04:23:03 herbijudlestoids: in early 2009 when FASB changed the rules from mark to market, to mark to unicorn, it was obvious what was going on if it wasnt already. the banks are by "Generally Accepted Accounting Principles", completely insolvent.

04:23:23 herbijudlestoids: so i dunno why this guy is bothering to talk about leverage and FDIC insurance lol

04:23:37 herbijudlestoids: due diligence shows the banks as failed capitalist enterprises

04:23:48 herbijudlestoids: dun need to go further than that.

04:24:09 Duffer1: fdic insurance is probably about the only thing the average american derp understands about banking

04:24:27 Duffer1: he's jsut using it as an example to highlight a point, smart guy knows his audience

04:24:52 mircea_popescu: im with d.

04:25:54 mircea_popescu: this is just damage control anyway. most of the deposits belong to companies, which a) are legally required to keep their funds in a bank and b) are not insured anyway.

04:26:16 mircea_popescu: you think the cypriots had it bad... watch till it happens in the us.

04:26:21 herbijudlestoids: ye

04:26:46 Vexual: so mpoe

04:26:54 decimation: it's all the idiocy of maturity transformation

04:26:56 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bank-steals-deposit.png

04:26:59 mircea_popescu: that's how it looks

04:27:46 herbijudlestoids: i hear that NEO and BEE setup btc financial services in cyprus and opened recently

04:27:48 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/time-for-europe-to-repeal-the-us-backed-aml-crap/ since we're on it

04:28:07 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBKowgK41E0

04:28:21 Duffer1: neo&bee is open?

04:28:47 herbijudlestoids: dunno, thats just what i heard today

04:28:55 Vexual: legals still taking money they cant afford to pay unemploed builders at any price

04:29:19 Vexual: id be getting free rent

04:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00093239 = 13.0535 BTC [-] {2}

04:30:21 Vexual: lpanned to open march i think?

04:31:07 Vexual: i expect tellers with broken computers and a stopwork from govt

04:31:28 Vexual: shoulda been in berlin

04:31:33 herbijudlestoids: so are you buying shares then Vexual?

04:32:17 Vexual: no

04:32:34 Vexual: then berlin, then that awful volcano

04:32:40 Vexual: *frankfurt

04:34:30 herbijudlestoids: whats the opinion on havelock investments?

04:34:59 Vexual: seems to work

04:35:11 Vexual: verily don't listen to me tho

04:35:26 mircea_popescu: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=31

04:43:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00093389 = 17.0902 BTC [+]

04:48:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i hereby demand to be gassed by the new, spiffy, Meta-NSA, rather than the tired old one.

04:48:57 mircea_popescu: glwt.

04:49:12 decimation: where are its headquarters?

04:49:38 Vexual: prolly not cuba so you can't have fun if you get busted out by someone mp sent

04:49:40 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/dOOTKA0aGI0

04:49:51 asciilifeform: decimation: on a subterrine.

04:50:43 decimation: I particularly like that this sketch shows them digging, thus mocking the idiots who tried to setup an idiot commune during the English civil war

04:50:50 mircea_popescu: subterrine de gascogne

04:51:25 herbijudlestoids: i love dennis

04:51:29 mircea_popescu: shit i got the wrong sketch

04:51:34 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYV-qYeWPkk << i meant this one

04:51:37 decimation: I donno, how are they going to attact elite coders to work in a hole?

04:52:21 mircea_popescu: decimation that's where the gascogne comes into play.

04:52:40 decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers

04:53:09 decimation: sounds dubiously competent for the usg

04:53:12 asciilifeform: http://spox.ru/cache/imagemanager/2559156.jpg

04:53:22 Vexual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digger_%28soldier%29

04:53:47 Vexual: thats a shit sub

04:54:01 decimation: lol maybe they can dig a tunnel to the uk while they work

04:54:14 Vexual: yeah but you wont do x knots

04:54:31 herbijudlestoids: if i went around, saying i was emperor just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me...

04:55:19 Duffer1: moistened bint is my new favorite pejorative

04:55:34 Vexual: fast or quiet, those are the options

04:56:22 mircea_popescu: put a dint in the bint like you don't care...

04:57:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

04:58:17 Vexual: or, you can forgo the urnanium powered steam, and be noisy and slow

04:58:40 Vexual: which is in fact the only option

04:58:50 Vexual: also your parrot is dead

05:02:15 Vexual: its not unreasonably slow sir

05:02:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43851 @ 0.00093235 = 40.8845 BTC [-]

05:03:02 Vexual: in two teths of the time it takes an a 380 to fly round the world you could be to cuba and back

05:03:36 Vexual: provided you set out from the modern spanish main

05:06:13 Vexual: or just roll around in the pacific and its all cool

05:07:19 Vexual: ive seen the rooster tail off one of those nuke subs and ill tell you they are well fast even on the surface

05:08:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26966 @ 0.00093421 = 25.1919 BTC [+] {3}

05:08:52 herbijudlestoids: so

05:09:07 herbijudlestoids: has anyone heard of reggie middletons ultra coin, not to be confused with ultracoin the altcoin?

05:09:13 herbijudlestoids: http://www.zerotrustdigitalmoney.com/

05:09:28 herbijudlestoids: something like zerocoin i guess

05:09:48 Duffer1: i haven't been able to read the altcoin forums since coingen came out

05:09:48 herbijudlestoids: looks like: http://boombustblog.com/images/stories/Bitcoin/Untitled.png (apparently)

05:14:45 KRS1: herbijudlestoids: I'd like to know more about that screenshot

05:16:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 992 @ 0.000405 = 0.4018 BTC [-] {4}

05:16:58 herbijudlestoids: KRS1: from what i understand its using zero trust contracts in a closed bitcoin system to do financial obligations (basically)

05:17:38 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC2q6_GM9zs

05:18:33 herbijudlestoids: im watchin the youtube video about it now, seems like he has hired some indian guy to do the coding and the explanation video is just a skype screencast of him showing reggie what he has paid for

05:18:50 Vexual: codemonekys

05:20:39 herbijudlestoids: confusing because there is an alt called ultracoin that has nothing to do with it

05:20:51 Vexual: thats why theres altcoin

05:24:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00093431 = 27.1884 BTC [+]

05:27:27 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids have heard, yea. sort-of ripple/ot/etc

05:27:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29570 @ 0.00093431 = 27.6275 BTC [+]

05:29:05 herbijudlestoids: seems a bit vapey right now? i tried to reg for the forum but doesnt work etc

05:29:11 herbijudlestoids: opinion?

05:29:22 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Ofl8IRf7o

05:29:31 herbijudlestoids: seems approx equv to the idea of p2pex, implemented with zero trust

05:31:03 mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem like anything, tbh.

05:31:39 mircea_popescu: lot of hype, no actual subtance that i so far noticed.

05:31:44 Vexual: lasbians

05:31:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12261 @ 0.00093235 = 11.4315 BTC [-]

05:32:08 mircea_popescu: "Here's the latest Max Keiser in which he and Stacey Herbert to a good job of explaining what I have in mind. " this sort of thing will instakill any project, for instance.

05:32:22 herbijudlestoids: truth

05:32:55 mircea_popescu: in general, a large number of fluffers are trying to scam various particular venues. there's all the dorks pretending like they have projects for the benefit of the clueless va market.

05:33:05 mircea_popescu: there's all the various scammers trying to peel the eager youth public

05:33:08 mircea_popescu: on it goes.

05:33:45 Vexual: are you gonna do mpex forever mp?

05:34:22 mircea_popescu: probably not.

05:34:32 Vexual: who could manage it

05:34:54 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whats-the-plan-with-mpoempex/

05:34:57 Vexual: could someone?

05:35:09 mircea_popescu: why not ?

05:35:35 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/smpoe-takes-strategic-investor/

05:35:51 mircea_popescu: maybe this year i cut a deal with a large bank. or maybe i buy one. or maybe next year. or who knows

05:35:51 herbijudlestoids: sweet accounting gimix from italy today http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-01/italy-enacts-most-bizarre-bank-bailout-yet

05:35:57 mircea_popescu: i'm not even 40 yet. there's plenty of time.

05:36:17 mircea_popescu: haha yea i saw that. ppl were like... headshake and backing up

05:36:30 herbijudlestoids: you should buy the worlds oldest bank! monte dei paschi di siena

05:37:25 herbijudlestoids: http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/BMPS:IM

05:38:16 mircea_popescu: not particularly strong.

05:38:30 decimation: what's the point of owning a fiat bank?

05:38:39 Vexual: old monmey and contacts

05:38:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34461 @ 0.00093228 = 32.1273 BTC [-] {2}

05:39:02 mircea_popescu: that you can tell the government of X irrelevant country to either adapt its enforcement to what you do or else prepare for eating treebark

05:39:10 mircea_popescu: like hsbc sent the usg packing

05:39:37 herbijudlestoids: i dun think you can afford a strong bank, thats why i suggested one of the weaklings :P

05:39:50 decimation: all the banks are poor in bitcoin

05:40:03 mircea_popescu: i don't need a weakling.

05:40:17 mircea_popescu: and on the strength of having grown from 10mn to 1bn in ayear, i can literally afford anything.

05:40:37 mircea_popescu: in the current situation, the only reason i conceivably could not lbo a bank with 100trn in "assets"

05:40:49 mircea_popescu: is that the people supposed to finance lbos are either poor or stupid.

05:42:06 decimation: seems like bank ownership would come with all kinds of soveirgn meddling

05:42:25 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thickasthieves https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443108.msg4887312#msg4887312 << seems they've decided it's called ALT not ATC.

05:42:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:42:30 Vexual: you might have a son in the next few years mp

05:42:46 mircea_popescu: decimation obviously it'd be a complex matter.

05:43:35 mircea_popescu: anyway, the actual reason would be, of course, that the last thing any one government wants is me at the helm of a huge fiat bank.

05:43:39 decimation: I agree at some point it will happen. In fact, at some point banks will be begging for the bitcoin rich to tell them what to do

05:43:43 mircea_popescu: they'd rather not eat all that much treebark if at all possible.

05:43:59 Vexual: well if mpex is anything to go by, youd own a priavte bank

05:44:19 Vexual: and still be the goto guy for bitcoin shit

05:44:22 mircea_popescu: Vexual 500 dollars a year to bank there and no further fees.

05:44:25 mircea_popescu: tell me you wouldn't use it.

05:44:33 Vexual: i cant tell you that

05:44:53 mircea_popescu: unlike the children spending their lunchbreak on bitcointalk, irl people actually have to like... you know, pay the rent and shit

05:44:58 Vexual: i imagine youd still use mpex too

05:45:14 mircea_popescu: yes. you'd need gpg for internet banking.

05:45:21 decimation: I would pay if I could get 100% backed deposits in whatever currency I'm banking

05:45:35 mircea_popescu: decimation well is it a bank or is it money storage ?

05:45:51 decimation: money storage for me

05:46:01 mircea_popescu: you could have that, i dun see why not.

05:46:08 decimation: with a convienent loan-matchmaking system

05:46:27 mircea_popescu: course at least for psychological reasons it's prolly better to have the storage and the banking business separated.

05:47:19 herbijudlestoids: how about the bank that lets you choose what rate you are willing to loan your money out at

05:47:20 decimation: the hilarious thing is that the fiat gov't would think they have leverage over you

05:47:41 mircea_popescu: decimation folks love to think this, story of my life.

05:47:43 herbijudlestoids: if you choose, say, 0% it cant loan the money out, at 0.5% only low risk investments, etc

05:48:02 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids maybe. the problem here is this : the more choice you give people, the more fuckwited they are and the more scams you enable.

05:48:22 mircea_popescu: so in practice you want to either give all choice or no choice.

05:49:12 decimation: you can have a fractional subsidary for the idiots to bank with

05:49:13 mircea_popescu: sorta like you can either be male or female. have to pick one.

05:49:19 mircea_popescu: there's no gender-ambiguous connector.

05:49:20 decimation: "why don't my checking account pay interest?" etc

05:49:27 herbijudlestoids: realistically, there should be no bitcoin bank, doesnt seem necessary as long as there is a highly liquid market for bitcoin duration notes and bonds, like 10,30,90 day 2,5,7,y bonds

05:49:49 mircea_popescu: the note market is much more difficult than meets the eye.

05:50:00 Vexual: why isnt my coal mine making money? it is now

05:50:40 Vexual: coz powerplant and shit

05:51:09 mircea_popescu: look at that, paschi di siena is on hte pinksheets now.

05:51:18 mircea_popescu: maddof helped them so.

05:51:49 decimation: the bank would provide research and screening of businesses wanting loans, as well as negotiating terms for classes of investors

05:52:01 decimation: ie a real finiancial middleman in the proper sense

05:52:14 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCE3Ge4bCLk

05:52:17 mircea_popescu: decimation you'll never be able to hire.

05:52:33 mircea_popescu: how do you think i'll be able to coerce herbi here to do all that legwork for your blind "classes"

05:52:40 mircea_popescu: when he could just as well set up shop for himself.

05:53:10 Vexual: yeah herbi got it, hes a surity

05:53:52 decimation: there will be people who just wanna have some passive income, and will be willing to pay the bank fees to make sure the deal is reasonable

05:54:04 mircea_popescu: you still won't be able to hire.

05:54:09 herbijudlestoids: decimation: why cant any business wanting loans list a bond and their financial deets and allow me to quantify them and bid in the free market on their rate?

05:54:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00093166 = 28.4156 BTC [-] {2}

05:54:34 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids why do you need a bank to interface your etrade account ?

05:55:09 herbijudlestoids: pls adjust your analogies for australia retards

05:55:35 decimation: MP, as in you won't be able to find anyone who is qualified to make these kinds of subjective creditworthiness judgements?

05:55:46 mircea_popescu: decimation not for any price youll afford to pay.

05:56:01 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i just mean that if you want to dd on your own you can't possibly need a bank for any purpose.

05:56:34 Vexual: etrade is a stock broker here u know mp?

05:56:43 decimation: Well, you certainly wouldn't find anyone qualified working for banks today. He/she would have to be grown from scratch somehow.

05:56:47 mircea_popescu: decimation so then you try to "make it work" which means you push both ends and then a decade down the road your shitty officers bring about a crisis of unheard magnitude

05:57:09 mircea_popescu: what, you think financial top management particularly WANTED a crisis ?

05:57:31 mircea_popescu: Vexual yes.

05:57:39 Vexual: thought so

05:57:44 KRS1: herbijudlestoids>: he's finding the contracts in the blockchain?

05:57:54 KRS1: looks like theres also a rating to them

05:58:00 mircea_popescu: that's my point. if he wants a self-service thing he doesn't need the bank to anything.

05:58:47 decimation: I'm not sure the crisis would be of the same magnitude as what fiat banks have gotten into

05:58:52 herbijudlestoids: well what would i need the bank for, if i can for example loan 10 day money in a liquid market to some business directly, and then when i need some money sell the appropriate amout of 10 day loans back into the mkt?

05:58:56 KRS1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhsUFuqbCM

05:58:57 decimation: but you certainly could lose alot of money on idiocy

06:00:07 decimation: what if you wanted to divide a loan amoung a few others to reduce the risk?

06:00:27 mircea_popescu: decimation you want sane business models at all times. this one you're contemplating proposes to make 10 dollar steaks out of nine meat. that leftover dollar isn't enough to hire anything but mcdonalds staff. which won't make what you want.

06:00:47 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yes. if you want to do all the work, you don't need someone to do the work for a group of "you".

06:01:17 mircea_popescu: if you want to cut wood and feed stoves, "town heating services" aren't useful to you.

06:01:17 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: marginal savers can do the legwork and rest of the market can take the interest rate as the signal

06:01:25 mircea_popescu: this is the path to disaster.

06:02:18 mircea_popescu: it's basically the equivalent of driving a car by touch.

06:02:19 herbijudlestoids: decimation: im assuming the loan granularity is extremely fine so you can loan your bitcoins equally amongst them or however you like...

06:02:44 mircea_popescu: fun fact : loan granularity only becomes fine in systems which well handle coarse.

06:02:55 mircea_popescu: if you need fineness as an input your system is thereby aborted.

06:03:05 decimation: That sounds like alot of work for investors and businesses alike

06:03:12 decimation: But I guess the work has to exist somewhere

06:03:32 mircea_popescu: this is kind of the general point here : you ignore workload at your peril. sooner or later it will punish you.

06:03:43 mircea_popescu: the later the worse.

06:03:49 herbijudlestoids: the businesses have to do nothing except list the bond and their verifiably true financials

06:04:05 mircea_popescu: sadly there is no such thing as a "verifiable true financial"

06:04:20 decimation: I guess I'm pushing it into the black boxed labeld "competent bank", and you are saying such a bank would have to charge enormous fees to employ the right people

06:04:30 herbijudlestoids: ye

06:04:42 herbijudlestoids: thereby compressing any profit margin

06:04:43 mircea_popescu: decimation something like that. you're basically saying "it should be done", like a govt.

06:04:49 mircea_popescu: well... that's fine but it doesn't actually work.

06:05:29 mircea_popescu: you know how they pass laws going "nothing in the foregoing should be construed as doing X" ?

06:05:38 mircea_popescu: that's wishful thinking in a bowstring. what the fuck.

06:05:50 decimation: That's in nearly all us laws now

06:05:55 mircea_popescu: indeed.

06:06:23 mircea_popescu: "nothing i do now should be construed as rape" *pow* *smack* *riiiip*

06:06:59 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1581430/plain/)

06:06:59 Duffer1: !bash 1

06:07:04 decimation: Well, at least my "competent bank" would be better than current gov't and banks because the liabilities would be explicit and clear

06:07:05 Duffer1: ^.^

06:07:16 mircea_popescu: they won't stauy explicit and clear

06:07:23 mircea_popescu: everyone involved has a definite interest to muddy them

06:07:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22092 @ 0.00093433 = 20.6412 BTC [+] {2}

06:07:34 mircea_popescu: because your model fundamentally doesn't work, and so they're all stuck

06:07:57 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 omg context

06:08:10 Duffer1: ya i just realized >.<

06:08:29 Duffer1: i should have added a few more lines

06:08:42 mircea_popescu: be ashamed. you've even broken the rules nao.

06:08:43 Duffer1: sorry hehe

06:09:20 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0hOKCSuns

06:10:11 decimation: Do you have an alternative in mind? The only thing that occurs to me is rugged investors and businesses creating gpg contracts on their own terms.

06:11:00 mircea_popescu: i don't have a fully polished, drop-in alternative in any sense.

06:11:16 mircea_popescu: what's worse, i doubt there can actually be an alternative to toughening the agents the fuck up.

06:11:41 mircea_popescu: i've been measuring it across the board, you've perhaps seen the tail ends of ti

06:11:54 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0;all etc

06:12:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25885 @ 0.00093203 = 24.1256 BTC [-] {2}

06:12:37 KRS1: Vexual: groovyy

06:12:45 KRS1: Straya cunt

06:13:22 Vexual: sup florida

06:13:38 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvCkxg0BOI

06:14:41 decimation: it's the quis custodiet ipsos custodes problem

06:15:20 mircea_popescu: in general, the problem is vast. the day your average us citizen has decided that politics is a problem that other people should solve for him, so he can focus on w/e his job is

06:15:29 mircea_popescu: that day politics got fucked irretrievably.

06:15:42 mircea_popescu: yet people don't generally want to nor generally can be renaissance complete personalities.

06:15:43 decimation: which is the current situation more or less

06:15:52 mircea_popescu: well, the same is true of everything.

06:16:02 mircea_popescu: the day you quit cleanning your house it will cease to be clean.

06:16:18 mircea_popescu: the day you decide your financial security is "to be" ensured by nebulous third parties...

06:16:21 mircea_popescu: guesswhat.

06:16:30 mircea_popescu: they may be experts, but they aren't you.

06:16:41 decimation: even if they start out competent and strong, the inevitible incentives to cheat...

06:16:55 mircea_popescu: if you never talk to your girlfriend

06:16:56 mircea_popescu: ever

06:16:59 mircea_popescu: she will eventually quit you.

06:17:08 herbijudlestoids: unless youre mute

06:17:16 mircea_popescu: see ? this seems to be a rather universal rule.

06:17:21 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids s/talk/communicate/

06:17:24 herbijudlestoids: :P

06:17:49 herbijudlestoids: lessons in personal responsibility from mircea_popescu

06:18:10 mircea_popescu: well more like... you know... what alternative shall i have, woe unto me. i dun see one, other than lieing it you

06:18:15 mircea_popescu: (dun worry baby it'll all be alright)

06:18:29 decimation: "intellectuals" call it the "noble lie"

06:18:35 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCZ_bv9aLc

06:18:47 mircea_popescu: yes, but apparently you won't have classes, and be happy inferiors of some selected caste of masters.

06:18:53 mircea_popescu: this makes such lie impopssible.

06:18:59 Duffer1: herbijudlestoids it's a lot better than lessons from Labcoin :P

06:19:23 mircea_popescu: the original observation, however, to wit that politics has very quickly diminishing marginal returns, and in general you don't need more than 100 men involved in it in any case, is sound.

06:19:35 mircea_popescu: (fun fact : 50% of all wealth today is owned by 97 people, i hear)

06:19:49 herbijudlestoids: noway

06:19:58 herbijudlestoids: sauce?

06:20:02 mircea_popescu: research it, im curious if it can be confirmed

06:20:11 herbijudlestoids: i think its a lot lower, more like 8% :P

06:21:20 mircea_popescu: 1% own 40%, according to the un.

06:21:28 mircea_popescu: i guess it depends on how conspiracy-minded the approach is.

06:21:45 Vexual: yeah thats the humanitarian brach of the nsa

06:22:07 Vexual: not really

06:22:09 herbijudlestoids: yes i would agree 1% own 40%...so what is 1%? seventy million people!

06:22:35 herbijudlestoids: another number i found for 2013 is that 29 million own 39% of global assets

06:22:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00093454 = 12.8499 BTC [+] {2}

06:22:44 mircea_popescu: yeah, of which 69`999`923 people do banking with a select few :)

06:22:51 herbijudlestoids: lol

06:22:55 mircea_popescu: so in the end...

06:23:39 herbijudlestoids: nowaybro, if global assets includes say, a cashflow positive farm or car factory or whatever then that piece of ass(et) doesnt matter who you bank with

06:23:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02969 = 0.1188 BTC [-]

06:23:59 mircea_popescu: methinks i was forcing a point.

06:24:08 herbijudlestoids: i have heard a number that the richest 100% own a lot, but the number i heard was like 8%

06:24:16 herbijudlestoids: err s/100%/100 people/

06:24:18 Vexual: it mght affect where you are able to sell your product effectively herbi

06:24:48 decimation: well, it certainly is the case that money will stay in the hands of those who have the ability to hold it

06:24:56 decimation: and that those people are rare

06:25:01 mircea_popescu: ownership is a muddled thing anyway. so you own your house. you can't set it on fire. you can't dig a hole in the livingroom. etc.

06:25:31 decimation: everyone else needs an arrangement with the local duke or landgrave

06:25:57 mircea_popescu: decimation you know what a house mother is ?

06:26:15 decimation: Like someone who stays home to raise the children?

06:26:22 mircea_popescu: no.

06:26:35 mircea_popescu: heterosexual couples ended up doing cellular families, somehow, for some reason.

06:26:42 mircea_popescu: at least in the english world.

06:26:54 mircea_popescu: gay people however, tend[ed] to live in groups

06:27:13 mircea_popescu: also other opressed groups (entertainers, especially sex workers, for instace ; drug users definitely)

06:27:33 Vexual: hookers

06:27:35 mircea_popescu: much like average people going out to drink have a designated driver, these cvasi-familial arrangements have a house mother

06:27:47 mircea_popescu: who is the sort of... well.. landgrave, technically.

06:27:58 mircea_popescu: resolves "whose hairbrush it really is" disputes

06:28:02 Vexual: i tak eit you dont mp

06:28:08 herbijudlestoids: its my fucken hairbrush

06:28:11 mircea_popescu: in most large towns cops reflexively seek him out in any conflict

06:28:13 Vexual: lol

06:28:32 mircea_popescu: this meanwhile has expanded to college aged kids, who are in fact an opressed group by now.

06:28:50 decimation: yeah in frat houses in us universities there is often such a person

06:28:50 mircea_popescu: not deliberately, just, they're too fucking dumb and uninformed to survive in the world as it is.

06:28:56 mircea_popescu: and so slowly the model spreads

06:29:02 mircea_popescu: there's your landgrave.

06:29:46 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57P9C4SAW4

06:30:27 mircea_popescu: so in the end, the future looks like, two to six slaves living i nthe care of one master, who gets in the wot and tries to make sense of whether mp or x or y is more sensible to keep his house's money.

06:30:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8824 @ 0.00093507 = 8.2511 BTC [+]

06:30:53 mircea_popescu: sorta mini-tribal.

06:30:57 Vexual: youtube thinks im a french tween

06:30:58 decimation: yeah that sounds about right

06:31:27 mircea_popescu: in the end, this all yields a richer conenctivity in society,

06:31:43 mircea_popescu: and it's a well known fact that the more connected model always emerges victorious.

06:31:46 Vexual: yeah then it breaks people starve and start over

06:32:03 mircea_popescu: which is fundamentally why england conquered scotland rather than the other way around

06:32:10 mircea_popescu: even though it was a scottish king who did the union

06:32:12 decimation: yeah here's a blog that shows a map of individualism vs. collectivism https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/national-individualism-collectivism-scores/

06:32:21 Vexual: say that in an aberdeen pub

06:32:23 mircea_popescu: i woudln't call this collectivism tho.

06:32:31 mircea_popescu: possibly because the term is in my mind strictly related to stalin.

06:32:33 decimation: the individualist are better at coordinating things on a large scale

06:34:55 decimation: Interestingly Hungary is a major outlier in Eastern Europe

06:35:20 mircea_popescu: is this hbd supposed to be "sanity ready to fight spurious accusations of racism" ?

06:35:47 Vexual: hbd?

06:35:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00093874 = 21.9196 BTC [+] {2}

06:36:18 decimation: her thesis is that many of the behaviours people exhibit can be traced back to inbreeding vs. outbreeding

06:36:56 mircea_popescu: https://hbdchick.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/individualism-collectivism-hofstede.jpg?w=460

06:37:00 Vexual: how can hungary inbreed, the border keeps moving

06:37:01 mircea_popescu: no seriously ? can i lol yet ?

06:37:14 mircea_popescu: the us is under 50.

06:38:04 mircea_popescu: "remember that it?s the individualists who seem to work together best towards the collective ? the BIG collective ? society as a whole ? a nation, for instance. meanwhile, the ?collectivists? (as hofstede calls them) ? or the clannish groups (as i call them) ? don?t manage to handle, or even to create, commonweals hardly at all."

06:38:14 mircea_popescu: this is really very naive 1930s whig anthropology.

06:38:31 mircea_popescu: for one thing, the clannish groups don't actually need the large constructs like the alienated individuals do.

06:39:04 mircea_popescu: but anyway.

06:39:09 Vexual: yeah

06:39:39 herbijudlestoids: i need a cheeseburger

06:39:45 Vexual: get me one

06:39:48 herbijudlestoids: yes sir

06:40:32 herbijudlestoids: anyone else want anything?

06:40:43 Vexual: yeah get me the whole amore meal

06:40:59 herbijudlestoids: wtf is an amore meal?

06:41:01 Vexual: two extra cheezeburgers

06:41:04 mircea_popescu: yea srsly.

06:41:44 mircea_popescu: apparently mcd is taking advantage of the aussies' polyglot nature.

06:41:49 mircea_popescu: https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/amore-big-mac-meal

06:42:18 herbijudlestoids: allofmywut.pptx

06:42:36 Vexual: yeah its acutally the fat cunt meal

06:42:38 herbijudlestoids: what is the amore about? as in, i love mcdonalds so much, give me one of everything on the menu?

06:42:58 Vexual: your girl is supposed to get a salad and eat some of your chips

06:42:59 mircea_popescu: no, as in take the gf. you eat the big hoovespaste thing, she eats the small one

06:43:03 mircea_popescu: then you fight on the apple pie

06:43:08 Vexual: lol

06:43:19 herbijudlestoids: glegh

06:43:29 mircea_popescu: what do these things cost anymore ?

06:43:29 herbijudlestoids: glad there is a proper burger joint down the end of my street

06:43:36 mircea_popescu: is that thing like 20 dollars ?

06:43:38 Vexual: bacon on mine

06:43:48 Vexual: if you dont mind

06:44:09 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: id guess about that, with the current FX rate at 0.87

06:44:25 herbijudlestoids: altho there is the convenient big max index if you wanna work out your PPP that way

06:44:30 herbijudlestoids: s/max/mac

06:44:33 Vexual: 123 bux amore

06:44:36 Vexual: 12

06:44:59 mircea_popescu: i was just idly curious

06:45:18 mircea_popescu: last time i ate in a popular joint i left like 40 dollars there iirc.

06:45:33 herbijudlestoids: we just got...TGIF here

06:45:36 mircea_popescu: this being, of course, romania, where labour an' materials are cheap

06:46:46 Vexual: can one get a good burger there mp?

06:46:56 mircea_popescu: i never had one.

06:47:07 herbijudlestoids: what do you eat mircea_popescu? soylent? :D

06:47:22 mircea_popescu: last burger i had was at some irish restaurant in boston. i ate it with a knife and fork, much to the waitstaff's delight

06:47:26 cazalla: i don't know any aussies that buy a family deal from maccas

06:47:31 cazalla: it's usually fish and chips mate

06:47:32 mircea_popescu: (all the chicks came one by one to discreetly check me out)

06:47:46 herbijudlestoids: ooo cazalla you just paused me mid sohe

06:47:48 herbijudlestoids: shoe*

06:48:03 cazalla: i just sat down with a cuppa

06:48:05 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids http://fraudsters.com/2013/tandoori-mousaka/

06:48:33 Vexual: u veg?

06:48:43 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: my fraudsters buffer is now at 5 articles, if you want me to read more you will have to pay 0.01BTC for a subscription to my HTTP GETs :P

06:48:56 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/how-to-sandwich-like-a-badass/ http://fraudsters.com/2012/pilaf/ etc

06:49:05 mircea_popescu: my blog is like an exhaustive mp compendium

06:49:16 Vexual: its a delicious clump of pluerotus mushrooms

06:49:19 mircea_popescu: haha sokay, they'll wait

06:49:32 mircea_popescu: Vexual no, i eat girls.

06:49:46 Vexual: vitamin v

06:49:51 herbijudlestoids: Vexual: ooo did i tell you that i am a fine grower of pleurotus eryngii?

06:49:55 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/sauerbraten/

06:50:15 Vexual: im not all that much of a mushroom afficianardo to be honest

06:50:31 herbijudlestoids: i got a lil obsessed from when i lived in victoria

06:50:31 cazalla: those tomatoes look average

06:50:40 Vexual: unless theyre draped on a porterhouse

06:50:43 herbijudlestoids: lactarius deliciosus especially

06:50:44 cazalla: then again, i grow my own (heat wave is killing em atm though)

06:51:07 herbijudlestoids: ok fucken ill be back, going to get some burgers before you guys convince me off it completely

06:51:28 Vexual: what cut is that mp? lower back?

06:51:34 Duffer1: ;;google congestive heart failure

06:51:34 gribble: Congestive Heart Failure Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment - WebMD: http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide-heart-failure; Heart failure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure; Congestive Heart Failure - American Heart Association: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/CongenitalHeartDefects/TheImpactofCongenitalHeartDefects/Congestive- (1 more message)

06:52:59 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIra8QTbKgs

06:53:47 mircea_popescu: actually, wow there's a ton of shit. http://fraudsters.com/2012/martipan/ http://fraudsters.com/2012/nsfw-cum-gatim-curcan/ http://fraudsters.com/rata-pe-varza-umpluta-cu-legume http://fraudsters.com/sa-carabanim-un-crab http://fraudsters.com/ce-mincam-vara http://fraudsters.com/paste-n-sos-de-rosii http://fraudsters.com/2011/sugestie-de-prezentare/ and finally : http://fraudsters.com/2012/o-mina-priceputa-acum-cu-ilustratii/

06:53:58 mircea_popescu: there's like... 500`000 trillion apparently.

06:54:10 mircea_popescu: Vexual which one ?

06:54:34 mircea_popescu: ah the sauerbraten. upper leg.

06:54:39 Vexual: sauerbraten

06:54:54 Vexual: mmm, do you keep beef?

06:55:16 Vexual: whats the marinade, i cant translate, too salivating

06:55:56 mircea_popescu: Tot in practica eu n-o marinez in otet, cum e ideea nemteasca, ci-n vin, ceva rosu (in imagine dinsus aveti un cupaj de Merlot / Pinot Noir de la Recas. Daca nu sunteti alcolisti ca si mine puteti folosi lapte batut, am mincat o data facuta asa de austriece miini, fu delicioasa. (Si, si).

06:56:15 Vexual: yeah

06:56:26 mircea_popescu: also in practice, i don't use vinegar, like the germans, i use wine, something red (depicted above, merlot/pinot noir from recas)

06:56:48 Vexual: i feel you

06:56:48 mircea_popescu: if you're not alcoholics like me you can use buttermilk, i had it once made by austrian hands, it was delicious (both)

06:57:19 Vexual: that looks like thew kinda cut that gets full price in japan

06:58:07 Vexual: i see four steaks

06:58:57 KRS1: Billy Goat? lol

06:58:58 mircea_popescu: lotta mouths to feed.

06:59:31 Vexual: yeah u roast in the cast iron?

07:00:23 mircea_popescu: yeah

07:00:30 mircea_popescu: or clay dutch oven

07:01:44 Vexual: on a fire in the garden?

07:02:12 mircea_popescu: nah

07:02:34 mircea_popescu: too much hassle to improvise useful fires when you got an oven and everything

07:03:46 Vexual: thats why theres a lip on the lid of the pot, for coals

07:04:55 Vexual: you with your fancy gas

07:07:00 mircea_popescu: :p

07:07:55 twizt: .bait

07:08:00 twizt: ;9

07:08:04 twizt: ;(*

07:08:52 KRS1: ;;seen ozbot

07:08:53 gribble: ozbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <ozbot> 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 610 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.0561% in 3d 12h 14m 55s

07:09:06 KRS1: no bait tonight

07:09:44 Vexual: ;;see Graet

07:09:45 gribble: Error: "see" is not a valid command.

07:09:51 Vexual: ;;seenGraet

07:09:52 gribble: Error: "seenGraet" is not a valid command.

07:09:55 Vexual: ;;seen raet

07:09:55 gribble: I have not seen raet.

07:10:01 Vexual: ;;seen Graet

07:10:01 gribble: Graet was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 17 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Graet> yep, got eta tho?

07:10:19 Vexual: drool fail

07:10:26 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/85351720c79eb5e87ef5429a7b5c73be/tumblr_mhyfurBsTJ1rmcr76o1_1280.jpg

07:10:37 mircea_popescu: there. double cheezburgers, an' goodnite.

07:13:26 Vexual: me too, im off to find spatchcock

07:15:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.18 = 1.8 BTC [-] {2}

07:18:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00093964 = 31.384 BTC [+] {3}

07:20:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11237142 = 0.7866 BTC [+] {6}

07:21:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [+]

07:25:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

07:27:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

07:27:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.58 BTC [-]

07:30:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

07:32:03 dub: wat

07:32:12 dub: usagi back?

07:37:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26847 @ 0.0009401 = 25.2389 BTC [+] {2}

07:46:47 KRS1: hah that bait looks lionish rawr

07:54:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34950 @ 0.00093577 = 32.7052 BTC [-]

08:03:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.08154999 = 0.3262 BTC [-] {4}

08:04:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.07741 = 0.7741 BTC [-] {3}

08:06:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [-]

08:11:52 Namworld: There are so many people borrowing USD to go long on BTC on Bitfinex...

08:12:10 herbijudlestoids: gg

08:12:15 herbijudlestoids: leverage always ends well

08:12:34 herbijudlestoids: at least the borrow rate is relatively low for USD :P

08:13:16 Namworld: relatively low? looks kind of high

08:13:38 Namworld: The "usury" kind of high

08:14:58 Namworld: 18.7 million USD vs 3000 BTC borrowed

08:19:16 herbijudlestoids: whats the USD interbank rate? 0.25%? 0.5%? here in aus its ~3%

08:19:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00093459 = 10.6076 BTC [-] {2}

08:19:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.11899999 = 0.238 BTC [+] {2}

08:28:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1205 = 0.241 BTC [+] {2}

08:35:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26313 @ 0.00093379 = 24.5708 BTC [-] {2}

08:37:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

08:39:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1761 @ 0.00280177 = 4.9339 BTC [-] {7}

08:42:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 617 @ 0.00093354 = 0.576 BTC [-]

09:06:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.1242 = 0.621 BTC [+] {2}

09:10:05 Namworld: I have no idea

09:10:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

09:11:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.18 BTC [-]

09:13:52 Namworld: Why the discussion about the interbank rate?

09:16:47 Namworld: Whatever they are, they're lower than Bitfinex

09:19:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

09:23:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00093454 = 22.1953 BTC [+]

09:32:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.12475 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2}

09:36:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

09:37:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00093579 = 27.0443 BTC [+] {3}

09:38:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

09:55:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00093136 = 26.0781 BTC [-] {2}

10:02:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6623 @ 0.00093132 = 6.1681 BTC [-]

10:06:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31825 @ 0.00092988 = 29.5934 BTC [-]

10:09:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30050 @ 0.00092929 = 27.9252 BTC [-] {2}

10:11:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00092862 = 7.754 BTC [-]

10:20:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29640 @ 0.00093194 = 27.6227 BTC [+] {2}

10:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30100 @ 0.00093535 = 28.154 BTC [+] {2}

10:32:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3527 @ 0.002801 = 9.8791 BTC [-] {4}

10:40:14 herbijudlestoids: anyone around?

10:40:29 Duffer1: how's it goin

10:41:01 herbijudlestoids: alright, just trying to plug sensitivity analysis into the just-dice numbers

10:41:25 herbijudlestoids: not sure there is a positive kelly criterion value so the best bet is to "invest" with the house

10:42:25 herbijudlestoids: yeah...all the values seem to come out negative, not including the house edge

10:42:57 Duffer1: do you have your own site or blog where you're showing this info?

10:44:02 herbijudlestoids: nope

10:44:54 Duffer1: are you just analyzing for the hell of it or do you intend to apply your findings to trade?

10:45:29 herbijudlestoids: this is the equation f=(p*(b+1)-1)/b where b=0.65 and p=0.6

10:45:53 herbijudlestoids: and then i did sensitivity analysis for b and p looking for positive f values

10:46:07 Duffer1: right, but why hehe

10:46:17 herbijudlestoids: hmm well im analysing because some people on here mentioned it, id only apply if i could find an optimal betting equation

10:46:29 herbijudlestoids: i find it nice you can invest with the house tho

10:46:35 Duffer1: oh i see

10:47:48 Duffer1: i wish dooglus hung out in b-a

10:48:05 Duffer1: i bet that'd be very interesting

10:52:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00280003 = 0.56 BTC [-] {4}

10:59:21 Namworld: Possibly

11:10:29 Namworld: If there's no house edge, then it's always going to be zero for f. Unless there's rounding issues in the winnings vs odds since you can adjust those.

11:11:28 Namworld: If the odds are negative (house edge), f will be negative.

11:11:36 Namworld: So you know... go with the house

11:21:45 herbijudlestoids: Namworld: thought thats what i said

11:22:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00092817 = 20.3733 BTC [-] {4}

11:26:57 jurov: that's clear, but did you come with best strategy when to withdraw?

11:35:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 30 @ 0.24310363 = 7.2931 BTC

11:38:10 herbijudlestoids: jurov: i have some ideas already ;)

11:38:43 herbijudlestoids: we know the long run house edge is 1% but highly volatile in the short term, so basically arb against that 1%

11:40:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.24310363 = 2.1879 BTC

11:51:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25966 @ 0.00092694 = 24.0689 BTC [-] {3}

11:53:22 herbijudlestoids: ok

11:53:30 herbijudlestoids: well duffer1 is gone but i made it into a blog post http://bitquant.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/just-dice-kelly-criterion-sensitivity.html

11:59:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00292356 = 0.2924 BTC [+]

12:05:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

12:06:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2234 @ 0.00092577 = 2.0682 BTC [-]

12:11:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00092941 = 22.3058 BTC [+]

12:20:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.04750011 = 0.57 BTC [+]

12:21:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.1792 = 0.896 BTC [-] {2}

12:22:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.17299166 = 2.0759 BTC [-] {3}

12:24:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.075 = 0.225 BTC [-]

12:27:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.07200002 = 0.144 BTC [-] {2}

12:30:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.0731 = 0.4386 BTC [-] {2}

12:30:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 993 @ 0.000405 = 0.4022 BTC [-] {5}

12:32:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8884 @ 0.00092862 = 8.2499 BTC [-]

12:34:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47149 @ 0.00092626 = 43.6722 BTC [-] {3}

12:44:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.164 BTC [-]

12:45:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.16366666 BTC [-]

12:46:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

12:49:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC

12:55:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.18999998 BTC [+]

12:56:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.18999999 = 1.71 BTC [+]

12:58:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.19 = 1.52 BTC [+]

13:03:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.0009256 = 29.249 BTC [-]

13:07:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.0009256 = 10.5518 BTC [-]

13:18:49 jurov: herbijudlestoids, good article. i did not realize there's formula for this

13:22:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.24310363 = 2.431 BTC

13:23:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00092547 = 26.5147 BTC [-] {2}

13:24:09 herbijudlestoids: jurov: glad you liked it! :)

13:24:58 herbijudlestoids: jurov: i put it on reddit, but im not really a bitcoin person so i dunno where is good to share it to generate some discussion, if theres anywhere you think might be interested pls feel free to repost it there

13:25:47 jurov: where? i can upvote

13:26:57 herbijudlestoids: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wsvc7/bitquant_justdice_kelly_criterion_sensitivity/

13:27:00 jurov: just put it ro /r/bitcoin under catchytitle and hope for the best

13:27:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1711 BTC [-]

13:27:54 herbijudlestoids: yep thats approx what i did :P dunno how catchy the title is

13:28:16 herbijudlestoids: anyway, bed now, goodnight

13:28:25 jurov: i am not an expert, maybe ask Bingo

13:32:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 2000 @ 0.000645 = 1.29 BTC [+]

13:32:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14140 @ 0.00092537 = 13.0847 BTC [-] {2}

13:34:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00092969 = 11.7606 BTC [+] {2}

13:34:46 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 150 @ 0.00166806 = 0.2502 BTC [+]

13:41:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04979776 = 0.1992 BTC [+]

13:42:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.0009302 = 22.8829 BTC [+]

13:43:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.04979777 = 0.3984 BTC [+]

13:50:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00092499 = 5.4574 BTC [-]

13:59:49 mircea_popescu: so since pretty much anyone here has a better knowledge of webstuff than i do, here's a question :

14:00:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00093333 = 21.2799 BTC [+] {2}

14:00:18 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as you're going to do a site with accounts, which people can log in over http (stupid as this may be)

14:00:55 mircea_popescu: wouldn't the best practice be, that upon user registration you generate a user salt and a nonce, send these as a hashed cookie,

14:01:26 mircea_popescu: and upon each subsequent login you a) check if the user has the old cookie ; b) hash the salt, store it, increment the nonce, store it ; c) send a new cookie

14:02:18 mircea_popescu: if your salt+nonce -> cookie process is deterministic you can even verify it's the same actual user to any arbitrary degree of fineness (such as, same ip)

14:03:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 25 @ 0.005 = 0.125 BTC

14:03:16 mircea_popescu: the question being, is anyone currently doing this ?

14:04:12 mircea_popescu: (obviously in this case by "login" i mean, any http request to your server at all)

14:08:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]

14:09:09 nubbins`: hi

14:11:17 mircea_popescu: buna sa-ti fie inima, straine.

14:15:24 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell herbijudlestoids those same people said to you http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2014#472180

14:15:25 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:15:35 nubbins`: toată lumea de aici este strainu

14:15:52 mircea_popescu: haha

14:15:59 nubbins`: or whatever :D

14:16:03 mircea_popescu: "este straină"

14:16:06 mircea_popescu: but otherwise wd.

14:16:30 mircea_popescu: anywya : hi in romanian is, to this day, "buna ziua", ie good day.

14:16:40 mircea_popescu: the ancientest response to this is "may your heart be good, stranger"

14:16:49 mircea_popescu: used liberally cca... 1700

14:17:27 nubbins`: that's bordering on an arabic level of eloquence

14:17:48 mircea_popescu: romania had been bordering on an arabic invasion of the western world all through the middle ages.

14:17:56 nubbins`: well there ya go!

14:18:06 nubbins`: peace be upon you as well, etc

14:18:14 mircea_popescu: for instance the town i live in, has been sieged by the turks and by the germans about 18 times, switching sides like 7

14:18:25 mircea_popescu: because it controls the only easy access into the west from constantinople.

14:18:30 nubbins`: fun fact, i only learned two arabic phrases when visiting morocco

14:18:45 mircea_popescu: bismallah being one ?

14:19:15 nubbins`: actually only learned that one afterward

14:19:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]

14:19:54 nubbins`: anyway, people were much less impressed with my wa'alaykum salaam when it became clear that i didn't need to buy a rug

14:20:06 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell herbijudlestoids srsly, blogspot ? why such evil ;/

14:20:06 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:20:14 mircea_popescu: hahaha

14:21:02 nubbins`: "cutting a rug" is a euphemism here, but not for what you'd think

14:21:20 mircea_popescu: dancing ?

14:21:31 nubbins`: you're more perceptive than most

14:21:37 nubbins`: also known as "having a scuff"

14:21:47 mircea_popescu: you know, all that grammar truffles doesn't know.

14:21:49 mircea_popescu: i know it >D

14:22:27 KRS-: "cleaning a rug" is a euphamism here, commonly paired with "laying pipe".

14:22:30 KRS-: .bait

14:22:35 nubbins`: ﷽‎

14:22:41 nubbins`: ^ that's a single glyph!

14:23:02 KRS-: How did you type nothing

14:23:16 nubbins`: how do you not have any arabic fonts installed?

14:23:23 mircea_popescu: amusingly, it reads like a square with f0f0 written in it, which'd be a short form of a romanian euphemism for... cunt, of course

14:23:23 KRS-: ah thats why

14:23:25 mircea_popescu: fofoloanca.

14:23:34 KRS-: haha

14:23:47 nubbins`: right in the fofolanca

14:23:48 mircea_popescu: maybe it's really fdfd and im just being freudian

14:23:48 pankkake: mircea_popescu: most websites, and almost all frameworks I've seen, only use a cookie that isn't refreshed, and is either left to expire stupidly, or never expiring

14:24:09 mircea_popescu: pankkake so then this'd be beyond my comprehension. why in the fuck ?

14:24:12 nubbins`: pankkake: fuckit, drive space is cheap ;p

14:24:12 pankkake: if you add a signed timestamp to the cookie, maybe you can limit logins from old stolen cookies

14:24:24 mircea_popescu: obviously you have to chain cookies if you're using that retarded method of keeping track of user state.

14:24:33 nubbins`: my favourite euphemism for pussy these days is "ham wallet"

14:24:45 mircea_popescu: what are you, an aluminum siding salesman ?!

14:25:11 nubbins`: great for industrial buildings as well as the home!

14:25:26 mircea_popescu: (guy walks into a girlscout cookie clambake. as the festivities progress he keeps getting more and more excited

14:25:27 KRS-: pankkake: good luck with that cookie strategy if you are using multiple web servers

14:25:39 mircea_popescu: eventually he asks a supervisor : so when do you skewer their meatflaps already ?)

14:25:50 mircea_popescu: KRS- what'd be the problem ?

14:26:04 pankkake: KRS-: it's a signed cookie, not session cookie; and managing sessions over multiple servers is possible too

14:26:27 pankkake: but usually the process is that you have an auth cookie (lifetime = high), and a session cookie (lifetime = short)

14:26:33 nubbins`: managing sessions over several servers is commonplace

14:26:38 pankkake: and we're only talking about the auth cookie

14:26:45 mircea_popescu: pankkake so is the session cookie changed on each pageload ?

14:26:53 KRS-: Load balanced web servers would associate that cookie to one particular web server, if the load balancer stategy isn't carefully chosen (if possible) when the load balancer shifts traffic the cookie could become invalid beecause another web server doesn't know about the cookie.

14:27:06 nubbins`: ^

14:27:11 mircea_popescu: KRS- inasmuch as they all run your code they all know about the cookie.

14:27:12 nubbins`: have seen this

14:27:14 pankkake: no, it doesn't change, that's the point

14:27:20 mircea_popescu: pankkake well that's fucktarded.

14:27:41 pankkake: unless you store session data in it, but usually it's just a secret ID

14:28:06 nubbins`: had to troubleshoot a web app once where there was a round-robin load balancing setup. each new page request launched a new session, up to a max of 3 (the number of servers)

14:28:19 KRS-: I've dealt with this problem before. You have to carefully pick a load balanced strategy or pick another session persistence.

14:28:20 mircea_popescu: why so much derp ;/

14:28:35 pankkake: the session cookie isn't kept. if you close the browser, it's removed, etc.

14:29:21 pankkake: it's a poor's man stateful over stateless crap

14:29:22 nubbins`: what are you guys talking about, anyway

14:29:31 mircea_popescu: very poor man.

14:29:48 KRS-: This is my kind of it work, not much of a developer..love this stuffl.

14:29:49 mircea_popescu: today we learn nubbins` doth not read the logs

14:30:01 nubbins`: i read like halfway through today

14:30:07 nubbins`: lotta noise ;(

14:30:15 KRS-: pankkake gets it =D

14:30:23 KRS-: sysadmin pankkake?

14:30:23 pankkake: but the auth cookie thing is interesting. it wouldn't be so hard to write a more secure implementation that most of what's out there

14:30:32 KRS-: true

14:30:39 nubbins`: oh jeez, literally right before i joined

14:30:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00093336 = 16.0538 BTC [+] {2}

14:30:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.16366666 = 0.3273 BTC [-]

14:30:42 pankkake: sysadmin for fun and dev for work, basically

14:31:02 KRS-: ya its hard to find work as sysadmin where I live, but the work lasts a very long time.

14:31:07 KRS-: secure

14:32:13 nubbins`: so let's suppose the user loses their old cookie, what then?

14:32:19 KRS-: sign back in

14:32:39 KRS-: unless like pankkake said, its just a signed cookie not session

14:32:45 nubbins`: but http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2014#474411

14:33:06 nubbins`: you're no longer verifying it's anybody if the old cookie is gone, no?

14:33:47 pankkake: ooh actually I wrote something like it earlier, without thinking much about it. the auth cookie has an expiration, but at every session cookie recreation, the auth cookie is refreshed

14:34:10 nubbins`: sure, but suppose the user clears his cookies.

14:34:10 pankkake: so it allows auth cookies that still expire fast, while not forcing you to relogin if you visit the site often

14:34:29 pankkake: well any cookie removal logs you out obviously

14:34:40 KRS-: mitm comes to mind

14:34:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6651 @ 0.00093273 = 6.2036 BTC [-]

14:35:08 nubbins`: so you can verify it's the same user logging in each time, unless they perform a relatively common, semmingly benign action, like clearing their cookies

14:35:39 nubbins`: why even bother with all the hocus pocus?

14:36:06 KRS-: maybe to incorporate the salt+nonce that mircea_popescu was talking about?

14:36:17 KRS-: not sure

14:36:22 pankkake: it's a way to ensure you only have fresh cookies - stealing old cookies cannot work

14:36:42 pankkake: helps prevent replay attacks… kinda

14:36:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15766 @ 0.0009273 = 14.6198 BTC [-]

14:36:47 nubbins`: hm

14:36:58 pankkake: it's not going to be very good

14:37:33 nubbins`: seems like rubber bands and paperclips

14:37:42 pankkake: when I did implement that thing, it was more because I wanted cookies to expire in a smarter way

14:37:53 nubbins`: if you're that worried, just let the auth cookies expire after a half hour.

14:38:41 nubbins`: there's no "keep me logged in" checkbox on my bank's website

14:38:59 nubbins`: if you're worried about cookies being stolen, there should be no such checkbox on your site either

14:39:16 pankkake: my bank is using RC4 "encryption"

14:39:35 pankkake: 128 bit too

14:39:46 pankkake: and if you try to force it to do something else, it rejects you

14:40:03 pankkake: lol, banks

14:42:02 nubbins`: when i lived in korea, my bank required that i ran an activex control, had a cookie stored on a usb thumb drive, and asked for two separate five-digit codes from a list of about 50 that were provided as a wallet-sized card

14:42:09 nubbins`: before i could even enter my card number :o

14:42:39 nubbins`: such intentions, many fail, etc

14:42:47 asciilifeform: ah, korea, land of eternal IE6.

14:42:50 nubbins`: ^

14:42:52 KRS-: why RC4

14:43:09 KRS-: securing transport layer is hard anyway

14:43:40 pankkake: mircea_popescu: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/latest/api/authentication.html see reissue_time, it looks like those guys thought of it too :)

14:44:19 pankkake: KRS-: probably because of the BEAST attack, but they must have botched the configuration

14:44:47 KRS-: hopefully they are using it together with another mechanism, which is probably the case and would be just fine.

14:44:56 pankkake: no, they are very incompetent

14:45:03 KRS-: seems to be the case everywhere..

14:45:19 pankkake: 1) it's a bank 2) it's a FRENCH bank 3) their website reeks incompetence

14:46:06 KRS-: pankkake I've done a lot of consulting...from the private sector to government..none of them got it right. I imagine the big guys do like BOA, Google, etc.

14:46:58 pankkake: sadly the gpg over http projects seem to go nowhere

14:47:22 KRS-: One exception was the Florida Turnpike Enterprise (a private business implementation of a government roadway function to accept tolls and what not)..they had a firm grasp on I.T. security from their payment processor to their wireless roadway nodes..I was very impressed.

14:47:40 KRS-: Ya wonder why that is..it seems pretty solid to me.

14:48:52 nubbins`: years ago i did maintenance on a lottery corporation website

14:48:58 nubbins`: THEY had security figured out

14:49:15 pankkake: CACert allows you to authenticate with a browser certificate, though. I don't know any other website allowing it

14:51:04 mircea_popescu: pankkake too late, ima post it.

14:51:24 nubbins`: i should take a dump before the gym

14:51:27 pankkake: post what?

14:54:14 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/02/nsa-gchq-quisquater.pdf

14:56:00 nubbins`: nice formatting ;(

14:56:18 asciilifeform: nubbins`: not mine

14:58:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6912 @ 0.00093379 = 6.4544 BTC [+]

14:59:02 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that korea story reminds me of playing old z80 games

14:59:17 mircea_popescu: "please look in your manual to continue moving larry around the lounge"

15:00:08 KRS-: pankkake: probably because the CA cert won't complete the certificate chain for the general public. The cert would have to be signed by a custom CA I think.

15:00:35 nubbins`: lel yeah

15:00:49 nubbins`: "to continue sir graham's quest, type the 8th word on page 5"

15:00:50 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> seems like rubber bands and paperclips << it's fucking stateful http. It WOULD be.

15:00:54 KRS-: large intranets would prob use that

15:01:13 nubbins`: anyway, time to strap myself to a torture machine for an hour, seeya

15:01:19 KRS-: c ya

15:02:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00092794 = 11.2745 BTC [-]

15:21:57 water4ll: who is trading S.MPOE?

15:23:15 jurov: water4ll, there were ~40 new mpex accounts last month alone

15:23:36 jurov: plus others via coinbr

15:23:38 water4ll: I'm just a little surprised at consistent trading volume

15:23:52 mircea_popescu: why is consistent trading volume surprising ?

15:24:04 water4ll: well it's a higher barrier to entry than say havelock

15:24:10 water4ll: even with broker

15:24:31 jurov: i'd say the barrier motivates people to take care of their assets

15:24:51 water4ll: and high value traded too, none of that 0.05btc nonsense

15:24:54 water4ll: always 10,20 etc

15:25:01 mircea_popescu: water4ll yes, the fact that mpex is a respectable exchange makes it have consistent volume

15:25:05 mircea_popescu: unlike all the scamexchanges to date.

15:25:11 mircea_popescu: what in there is surprising ?

15:25:27 water4ll: seems a lot of inflated volume

15:25:55 mircea_popescu: Feb 02 05:05:26 <assbot> [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 588 @ 0.00093125 = 0.5476 BTC [+]

15:26:01 mircea_popescu: it happens, but apparently not too often.

15:26:19 mircea_popescu: water4ll listen, there's a difference between "i don't want X to be true and therefore i'll say things" and "X is surprising".

15:26:20 jurov: water4ll, i'm doing S.MPOE/BBET-PT passthrough payout and in 3 months so far only half of people went through it

15:26:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC

15:26:38 jurov: it clearly shows they don't give a fuck

15:26:45 jurov: unlike on mpex

15:26:58 water4ll: jurov": what do you mean? via coinbr?

15:26:58 jurov: they paid (or have to pay monthly)

15:27:18 jurov: yes, it's the passthrought from BTCT

15:27:29 water4ll: BTCT I thought closed down some time ago

15:27:34 water4ll: oh nvm

15:27:36 water4ll: got t

15:27:38 mircea_popescu: wow you still struggling with that ?!

15:27:43 water4ll: lol

15:27:51 water4ll: hard to keep track these days

15:27:52 mircea_popescu: poor jurov lol

15:27:53 jurov: yes, i just left it there

15:27:58 water4ll: glbse bitfunder

15:28:00 jurov: no additional expense

15:29:24 jurov: hey everyone who was on btct, try checking here: https://coinbr.com/btct/nampt_1

15:29:40 jurov: maybe you'll get a surprise ;)

15:30:17 jurov: and if you want to try coinbr, you have free 1 month till next monthly fee and 1 free withdrawal

15:30:29 mircea_popescu: now that's an idea

15:30:34 mircea_popescu: prolly best advertised on forum tho

15:30:55 jurov: oh, it was announced there when I put it online\

15:31:02 jurov: and then again and again

15:31:14 jurov: they just cnat raed

15:31:50 mircea_popescu: why would theyu right ?

15:32:03 mircea_popescu: like that jimmothy fellow. "ingore everything that's said, quote wikipedia"

15:32:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, http://fraudsters.com/2014/your-cookies-are-borkt-seriously/ if anyone would like to critique.

15:33:03 water4ll: mircea_popescu: how many articles do you pump out daily?

15:33:23 mircea_popescu: been averaging 1-2 in 2013.

15:33:50 mircea_popescu: bout where it is, 30-60 a month.

15:33:54 water4ll: Wow

15:34:13 mircea_popescu: lol you think that's wow, talk to benkay. i think he's done thirty this week.

15:34:23 water4ll: I tried to write a blog once, after 5 minutes I found myself opening some new tabs

15:35:22 mircea_popescu: to quote george for you, "They're men with jobs, Jerry! ... They're married, they have secretaries."

15:35:31 water4ll: http://samy.pl/evercookie/

15:36:11 mircea_popescu: that sounds like the clap not a cookie.

15:37:17 water4ll: they are both persistent

15:40:47 ThickerThanThiev: I'm also not savvy on cookies, but my naive question is, why doesn't the browser manage user auth?

15:41:02 pankkake: mircea_popescu: your irc copy paste is broken, the last part is about using RC4, and not related to the rest

15:41:16 mircea_popescu: oh

15:41:18 pankkake: i.e. anything after "Probably because of the BEAST attack"

15:41:39 water4ll: crime more concern than beast

15:41:40 mircea_popescu: so is psylon a french bank ?

15:42:08 pankkake: pylons is a web framework, sort of

15:42:29 pankkake: I don't know why you mangled those two things together

15:42:30 mircea_popescu: that's nice, had too much quite in there anyway. check it ?

15:42:40 mircea_popescu: why, because i'm doing fifty things that;s why.

15:42:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

15:43:00 mircea_popescu: be glad i don't accidentally insert nudes in rndom tech articles or something.

15:43:13 pankkake: that would be less confusing

15:43:33 water4ll: mircea_popescu: I think it's time

15:44:04 mircea_popescu: "it too :)" alligns with "probably" on the next line in my view. so i just read over krs and thus it formed one line.

15:44:10 water4ll: has anybody got the address of rpietila's new private bitcoin forum

15:44:19 mircea_popescu: lmao

15:44:34 mircea_popescu: you can't have that unless you post a pic with a bunch of junk metal all over your head.

15:44:51 water4ll: i sent shoe on head pic to him via pm

15:45:02 water4ll: nobody here invited?

15:45:14 mircea_popescu: sorry man. can't share it without the pic.

15:45:18 mircea_popescu: that's what he said.

15:45:46 water4ll: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=v3f1c8&s=5

15:48:02 mircea_popescu: you're a pregnant woman.

15:48:10 water4ll: http://fraudsters.com/2014/why-do-gentlemen-prefer-blondes/

15:48:24 water4ll: she said the 3rd is the cutest

15:48:35 water4ll: whatever brand of animal these are

15:48:44 water4ll: but you can barely see it

15:48:50 water4ll: it's covered by the other one

15:48:52 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/lectie-comasata-atit-de-decadentism-cit-si-de-bogatie-de-lux/ the shit i find. champagne float.

15:49:06 water4ll: I have to be frugal with these links

15:49:12 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.

15:49:27 water4ll: open cupboard is bare

15:49:28 mircea_popescu: or go mine some ATC and trade it for BTC to buy fraudsters credits with

15:49:33 mircea_popescu: a crypto economy!

15:49:36 water4ll: need to travel pickup few precious trilemna credits

15:49:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02900003 = 0.377 BTC [-] {4}

15:50:16 water4ll: mircea_popescu: will you stay in romania for remainder of your life?

15:50:38 mircea_popescu: i've only come here recently. i was in cr/central america for a few years.

15:50:47 mircea_popescu: the us before that, etc.

15:51:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02895 = 0.3474 BTC [-] {3}

15:51:06 water4ll: I had known some guys from romania, they couldn't wait to leave. for places like HK

15:51:49 water4ll: I've not been personally

15:51:58 mircea_popescu: how old were they ?

15:52:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

15:52:09 water4ll: some in early 20's some in 30's

15:52:25 water4ll: very enterprising bunch

15:52:41 mircea_popescu: were they poor ? were they married ?

15:52:50 water4ll: well they started selling potatoes

15:53:16 water4ll: so initially poor, but now mostly have plenty of $

15:53:22 mircea_popescu: in short : why should it be surprising that socially and sexually unattached young males wish to travel ? of course they would, if they're healthy.

15:53:32 kakobrekla: hey

15:53:38 kakobrekla: we are getting assraped here

15:53:39 water4ll: not so much travel, because they don't have intention of coming back

15:53:45 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla waitwut ?

15:53:59 mircea_popescu: water4ll that's travel.

15:54:01 kakobrekla: whole country = code red

15:54:06 mircea_popescu: snow ?

15:54:10 kakobrekla: yes

15:54:13 kakobrekla: ice

15:54:17 mircea_popescu: you don't deserve it.

15:54:20 kakobrekla: no power no nothing.

15:54:22 kakobrekla: no water

15:54:23 water4ll: where is snow?

15:54:32 mircea_popescu: you got snow right ? whatcha mean no water.

15:54:42 kakobrekla: from the pipes!

15:54:45 water4ll: kakobrekia: which country?

15:54:51 kakobrekla: slovenia

15:55:15 mircea_popescu: take girl out, remove bra, put snow on her, obtain water from the titties.

15:55:19 mircea_popescu: better than water from the pipes.

15:55:23 water4ll: wow it looks so beautiful

15:55:26 kakobrekla: anyway, im on my last ups now and its running low, so i might be offline for a day or three

15:55:32 mircea_popescu: jesus.

15:55:35 mircea_popescu: listen, come over.

15:55:38 water4ll: just a ps soon

15:56:00 kakobrekla: im not driving in this weather

15:56:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

15:56:06 mircea_popescu: well i can't teleport you

15:56:11 mircea_popescu: there's no power there.

15:56:12 kakobrekla: yes sucks.

15:56:17 kakobrekla: hehe

15:56:33 deadweasel: snowmobile?

15:56:42 deadweasel: :P

15:56:53 mircea_popescu: exercise 1 hr, irc 5 minutes

15:57:02 mircea_popescu: a week later, kako looks like peyton manning

15:57:15 kakobrekla: lmao

15:57:36 water4ll: kako 'mr legs' brekla

15:57:48 mircea_popescu: the best part of any frog.

15:59:57 mircea_popescu: http://www.montrealgazette.com/travel/Thousands+without+electricity+Slovenia+weather+also+causes/9459657/story.html

16:00:02 mircea_popescu: pic looks good.

16:00:18 water4ll: I love the snow

16:00:26 water4ll: isn't it exciting?

16:00:47 water4ll: even better when trails are cancelled and lights go out

16:01:27 mircea_popescu: yeah well, some people got shit to do.

16:02:17 water4ll: I just use as excuse to smoke in train toilet

16:02:31 water4ll: then you can relax and read a book or something

16:02:54 water4ll: makes a change to normal dailly routine

16:03:18 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla think about it tho. here everything's fine, snow is melting. you can see the ground.

16:03:24 water4ll: the water in slovenia is so clean

16:03:30 mircea_popescu: sucks to drive for a few hours but what if you're stuck there for 2 weeks

16:04:20 water4ll: I don't understand why you can be trapped anywhere in the snow

16:05:12 water4ll: wow

16:05:13 water4ll: http://www.darioendara.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/22-Slovenia-snow-horse.jpg

16:05:17 water4ll: look at this snow horse

16:06:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9940 @ 0.00093092 = 9.2533 BTC [+] {2}

16:09:05 kakobrekla: ok, going back dark, wish me luck.

16:09:08 kakobrekla: cya

16:09:16 water4ll: stay strong

16:12:15 jurov: kakobrekla, no trains either? here we have a little ice, but no such problems

16:12:32 jurov: just go to vienna and from there

16:13:14 jurov: gone ...

16:13:27 water4ll: been consumed by an avalanche

16:14:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00092823 = 7.2402 BTC [-]

16:14:42 mircea_popescu: apparently railroads are blocked too

16:14:48 mircea_popescu: serbia can't move into hungary etc

16:15:05 water4ll: what's the problem, stock up on wood and candles and food

16:16:28 jurov: but if you heat by electricity...

16:17:06 jurov: and slovenia has usually mild climate, they don't have gas/central heaters everywhere like here

16:17:44 water4ll: oh

16:28:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 13000 @ 0.00011108 = 1.444 BTC [+] {6}

16:29:14 ThickerThanThiev: During Fiscal Year 2013, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing delivered approximately 26 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $1.3 billion. About 90 percent of the notes are used to replace notes already in, or taken out of circulation.

16:29:24 ThickerThanThiev: How do you replace a note already in circulation?

16:31:11 ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443108.msg4887312#msg4887312 << seems they've decided it's called ALT not ATC. <<< The hear wants what the hear wants!

16:31:21 ThickAsThieves: heart*

16:31:22 mircea_popescu: indeed.

16:32:28 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what they mean is "notes are used to either send to consumers which sell us burned/destroyed paper money, or else to banks or other institutions that have the authority to remove paper from circulation"

16:32:34 mircea_popescu: but reporter can't write.

16:33:12 ThickAsThieves: its from the the official website

16:33:13 ThickAsThieves: hehe

16:33:35 ThickAsThieves: great domain too http://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurrency/annualproductionfigures.html

16:34:11 mircea_popescu: yeah, great indeed.

16:34:21 ThickAsThieves: is there a counter like the National Debt Clock for dollar dilution?

16:34:37 ThickAsThieves: thats all i'm looking for really

16:34:51 mircea_popescu: no.

16:34:57 mircea_popescu: they ceased publishing the m3 in 2005

16:35:02 mircea_popescu: becase "it wasn't interesting"

16:35:14 mircea_popescu: notwithstanding the only time i heard someone in this channel wanting some sort of info from the usg

16:35:23 mircea_popescu: it was you wanting the m3 above.

16:35:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 233 @ 0.00083501 = 0.1946 BTC [-] {2}

16:36:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1767 @ 0.00082157 = 1.4517 BTC [-] {11}

16:37:13 ThickAsThieves: the clock wouldnt tell the whole story anyway I guess, but would still be an easy way to show US people clearly what happens

16:37:27 ThickAsThieves: people really dont understand money gets printed daily

16:37:32 ThickAsThieves: NEW money

16:38:04 mircea_popescu: people understand all too well they do not wish to understand this if they wish to continue whatever it is they're doing.

16:38:06 mircea_popescu: so... no.

16:38:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 14500 @ 0.00011141 = 1.6154 BTC [+] {2}

16:39:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 180 @ 0.00082 = 0.1476 BTC [-] {3}

16:40:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00011142 = 0.1671 BTC [+]

16:44:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00092659 = 8.8953 BTC [-] {2}

16:47:23 ThickAsThieves: So am I correct in stating the USG reports there exists approx $11,000,000,000,000?

16:47:25 ThickAsThieves: http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/default.htm

16:48:41 ThickAsThieves: which would be $500,000,000 new dollars in 2013?

16:49:37 ThickAsThieves: wait

16:49:53 ThickAsThieves: $500,000,000,000

16:49:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27060 @ 0.00093135 = 25.2023 BTC [+] {2}

16:51:08 chetty: What dollars? They are just 1's&0's in computers somewhere - oh wait thats btc, oh wait ..

16:52:11 ThickAsThieves: i'm just trying to understand the money supply better

16:52:19 ThickAsThieves: not which of it is paper

16:52:48 KRS-: i think i'm going to change careers..i want to become a rapper.

16:53:02 ThickAsThieves: have you ever rapped before?

16:53:03 KRS-: what are my chances

16:53:04 KRS-: no

16:53:14 KRS-: but i like rap

16:53:19 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:53:24 ThickAsThieves: do you like pizza?

16:53:26 KRS-: thats how some people are these days with I.T.

16:53:29 ThickAsThieves: maybe you should become one of those

16:53:34 KRS-: ikr

16:53:55 KRS-: "oh i can click shit and run the wizard" "I is a computer expert"

16:54:01 ThickAsThieves: Windows Exper

16:54:02 ThickAsThieves: t

16:54:08 KRS-: dime a dozen

16:54:36 ThickAsThieves: depends where you are

16:54:50 ThickAsThieves: like if you work in a retirement home

16:54:57 ThickAsThieves: WIndows Experts are pretty useful

16:55:15 ThickAsThieves: or a numkber of small nonprofits

16:55:17 KRS-: worked at this one company where upper IT management thought they were all hot shit like that but had no idea of the underlying concepts

16:55:37 KRS-: then went running to the dev's for support

16:56:14 KRS-: and took credit for the effiencies, increased sales and gains

16:56:17 ThickAsThieves: I had to give this one adult day health care place all new staff emails twice in two years because staff turnover and "but they wanna use their Yahoo"

16:56:29 KRS-: hah

16:57:56 KRS-: the best was a nonprofit i consulted for..the 68 yo CFO was telling me how to do my job..needless to say i didnt service them past the initial 2-3 visits.

16:58:04 ThickAsThieves: small business web hosting mostly consists of "I lost my iPhone can you get my email back the new one?" and "Why are erection pill ads on my home page?"

16:58:50 ThickAsThieves: old people really dont trust IT people at all

16:58:53 KRS-: haha ya or the formatting isnt quite right on my spreadsheet or word document

16:59:08 ThickAsThieves: probly from being burned by all the expert nephews and windows experts

16:59:20 KRS-: ya i guess i cant blame them..much incompetence out there.

17:00:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.50889948 BTC to 444 shares, 114617 satoshi per share

17:00:39 KRS-: other SMB's have been great, long time clients, low workload, worked 2-4 days a week on average and made great money..thinking about going that route again, i just hate selling myself..maybe i can get a marketing company to do that.

17:00:53 ThickAsThieves: a ha "There was approximately $1.23 trillion in circulation as of January 29, 2014, of which $1.18 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes."

17:01:00 KRS-: ouch

17:01:00 ThickAsThieves: http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm

17:01:27 ThickAsThieves: i cant sort how these numbers add up though

17:01:28 KRS-: see the news lately, DOW and other markets are looking flaky

17:01:37 KRS-: most US currnecy overseas

17:03:01 ThickAsThieves: like, how doe sthe first report show $11t, the second say 1.23t, and the debt clock say $17.st

17:03:11 KRS-: smoke and mirrors dude

17:03:28 ThickAsThieves: nah there has to be some sort of path through the math

17:03:34 ThickAsThieves: made up or not

17:03:45 KRS-: ..was going to say if you want to trust those numbers.

17:04:02 ThickAsThieves: it is has to add up somewhere right?

17:04:06 KRS-: the government has been pulling back i hear

17:04:21 ThickAsThieves: maybe the simple answer is to just use the largest one

17:04:25 KRS-: ThickAsThieves: it does. Its carefully scrutinized, but where you go for the numbers are for those in the know.

17:04:30 KRS-: Pretty sure.

17:04:39 KRS-: Like labor statistics..published vs unpublished.

17:05:02 ThickAsThieves: if we owe $17.25t then that is probly the minimum amount of dollars, no?

17:05:06 ThickAsThieves: printed or not

17:05:27 KRS-: you would think

17:05:35 KRS-: Either way its a bad situation.

17:06:04 ThickAsThieves: i'm looking for an easy way to educate my circles on dollar inflation and dilution

17:06:22 KRS-: is that of benefit to you?

17:06:24 ThickAsThieves: i want them to undestand they do not have $X in the bank

17:06:31 KRS-: oh for proper investment?

17:06:44 ThickAsThieves: and that tomorrow, they will have less $ in the bank whether they withdraw or not

17:06:50 KRS-: I'm sure serious investors already know this.

17:06:58 KRS-: I'm sure most investors do.

17:06:59 ThickAsThieves: this is for friends and family

17:07:07 KRS-: ah ..another story.

17:07:11 KRS-: Good

17:07:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.00082 = 1.64 BTC [-] {2}

17:07:16 ThickAsThieves: its total ignirance out there man

17:07:18 ThickAsThieves: ignorance

17:07:36 KRS-: You aint kidding...got similar family like that thinking their 401k's are fine and all.

17:07:41 KRS-: They wont even listen to me.

17:07:42 ThickAsThieves: or at least what mp says total ignore-ance

17:08:04 mircea_popescu: yeah i was gonna say, glwt but it ain't happening/

17:08:12 mircea_popescu: that's why family is best organised as slaves in a harem

17:08:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 11131 @ 0.00011144 = 1.2404 BTC [+] {2}

17:08:19 mircea_popescu: you tell them what to do and are done with it.

17:08:46 mircea_popescu: with ppl as they are, even picking a fucking place to eat takes tw odays.

17:09:01 mircea_popescu: by the time you explain the situation to them you could have made more money than their aggregate savings by just... working.

17:09:18 mircea_popescu: like, doing something useful. which explaining stuff to idiots rarely is.

17:09:24 KRS-: heh

17:09:25 ThickAsThieves: you are so right about picking place to eat!

17:09:27 KRS-: so true man

17:09:32 ThickAsThieves: when we travel,

17:09:40 KRS-: give people a choice and it is teh fucks up everything

17:09:46 mircea_popescu: dude, you just yell "on your knees" and everyone is on their knees.

17:09:49 ThickAsThieves: I pre-choose every mean place before we even get to the airport

17:09:51 mircea_popescu: makes things so fucking easy.

17:10:02 ThickAsThieves: meal*

17:10:18 KRS-: people actually want to be told imo

17:10:19 chetty: It does not have to add up. THey don't think the masses can do math so they bother with things like that

17:10:43 ThickAsThieves: so you guys are saying there really is no answer?

17:11:00 mircea_popescu: chetty actually, banks came up with clown&baloon patterns for the back of cheques, i wonder how long till your actual bank statment is in pictures

17:11:02 ThickAsThieves: that there are vastly conflicting ways to count the money?

17:11:04 mircea_popescu: numbers being racist and all.

17:11:37 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2014#474726

17:11:51 nubbins`: ^ sounds like it doesn't snow where that guy lives

17:11:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves there are in fact vastly different ways to ACCOUNT.

17:11:56 mircea_popescu: "Those assets that he had, they were in fact somehow valued. On one approach to valuation, they came out X. On another approach to valuation, they came out Y. There?s little convergence between the series of Xs and Ys."

17:11:59 lippoper: I want ozbot back

17:12:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1300 @ 0.00011529 = 0.1499 BTC [+] {6}

17:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12819 @ 0.00093299 = 11.96 BTC [+]

17:12:28 ThickAsThieves: sure, but how do i sort out what a dollar is worth, ignoring outside inflations

17:12:33 mircea_popescu: you don't.

17:12:35 chetty: Some congress critter said they need to do weather reports in eubonics, thats why so many in NO didn't leave, they didn't understand.

17:12:43 mircea_popescu: how do you sort out what the word "it" means, ignoring outside inflations ?

17:13:15 ThickAsThieves: by striclty looking at money creation changes

17:13:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00011907 = 0.2381 BTC [+] {9}

17:13:37 mircea_popescu: the reason pure mercantilist views are derided by ws today is sound tho.

17:13:48 mircea_popescu: you're trying to live in 1700, which doesn't work.

17:14:27 ThickAsThieves: i want to be be able to form a sentence like "If we print the same amount of money in 2014 as 2013, your $1 with be worth .82"

17:14:28 mircea_popescu: the us dollar is a negotiable credit instrument, like any paper. it does not have this "fixed" value you wish toassign it.

17:14:36 mircea_popescu: yes, but you can't form that stance.

17:14:45 mircea_popescu: and if you could, i could write a bot to exploit your currency and make me rich

17:14:50 mircea_popescu: rendering your statement false in the process.

17:15:07 mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is largely what soros vs bank of england was all about)

17:15:13 ThickAsThieves: that implies things happen to icrease dollar value no?

17:15:36 mircea_popescu: that implies that the exchange value of a negotiable instrument is only known after the negotiation completes.

17:15:47 nubbins`: ^

17:16:03 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/

17:16:10 nubbins`: you don't know what the value of your white tamagotchi is until some sucker buys it

17:16:13 mircea_popescu: "The problem inflationary currency bestows upon capital allocators is insolvable. They are given money of no certain value (pretty much the only sure thing about the paper currency is that it is, literally, burning in your hands, it ticks away like a bomb, it blows in the wind like dust - all this while you?re holding it) and have to do something with it. They always, always, always, absolutely always have more than

17:16:13 mircea_popescu: is in fact needed."

17:16:23 nubbins`: and even then, that only settles the question of what YOUR white tama was worth.

17:16:25 mircea_popescu: that "no certain value" is in there for a reason.

17:16:26 nubbins`: to one guy, even.

17:17:08 ThickAsThieves: ugh

17:17:55 ThickAsThieves: I get it, I do, but this is not easy to communicate to normals

17:18:00 mircea_popescu: myeah.

17:18:10 mircea_popescu: which is why normals can't make exchanges, or ipos, or etc.

17:18:27 mircea_popescu: nor can they understand WHY is it that you won't let them.

17:18:34 mircea_popescu: obviously, it's because scam and racist.

17:19:15 ThickAsThieves: why the fuck is the phenomenon that uneducated think complicated info is untrustworthy

17:19:33 mircea_popescu: if you think about it, that's the stable game-theoretic solution.

17:19:38 ThickAsThieves: like if i rant on all this to my mom, she'll think i'm a conspiracy theorist

17:20:03 mircea_popescu: what should your server do with requests it doesn't comprehend ? a. drop them b. anything else.

17:20:21 ThickAsThieves: well your server is a slave right

17:20:26 ThickAsThieves: it does what you tell it to

17:20:42 mircea_popescu: well it'd better not be enough of a whore to do anything any user tells it.

17:20:51 mircea_popescu: ideally it's your slave, as you have the ssh

17:20:52 nubbins`: are you asking why people don't trust things they don't understand? :(

17:20:54 ThickAsThieves: the risk with slaves!

17:21:23 ThickAsThieves: well i dont necessarily want to conversate about that aspect nubbins

17:21:27 asciilifeform: 'Postel's Law,' that historic mistake.

17:21:31 mircea_popescu: iirc jurov was trying some experiments with giving anon users root on the box or something

17:21:38 nubbins`: not much to converse about :D

17:21:53 nubbins`: or conversate, for that matter ;p

17:22:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually postel's is great for the web. it's just that the web is NOT great for "anything"

17:22:57 mircea_popescu: and that's what the fucktarded altchainers have been doing to the internet, try to make everything out of web

17:23:15 mircea_popescu: just like some insane dood at your favourite eatery, where you once had some marzipan and like it.

17:23:30 mircea_popescu: next time you visit it's all like "yo dawg! i hear yu like marzipan so now I made everything out of marzipan!

17:23:39 mircea_popescu: like... the steak. the milk. YOUR CHAIR"

17:23:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik, postel's law came out of electronics, where you want to emit clear 'high' or 'low' voltage but do something other than choke & die if you're given a weird glitch (something in between)

17:24:05 mircea_popescu: make everything out of web, make everything out of blockchains, make everything out of etc.

17:24:08 ThickAsThieves: they in their own type of Kink High, let them play!

17:24:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also a web-ish sort of situation.

17:25:24 asciilifeform: exactly. we had 'Muller's gate' in the '50s, with 'ready' signals. but nobody uses.

17:26:02 mircea_popescu: basically, <KRS-> has it : people actually want to be told

17:29:07 nubbins`: ugh, i find myself in the unenviable position of having funds in my paypal account that i wish to convert to btc

17:29:20 nubbins`: this has literally never happened before D:

17:29:47 ThickAsThieves: people want to be told > thus rely on trust > thus capitalism becomes great liar

17:30:07 mircea_popescu: nah, a model where 90% of the population trusts 10% in chunks of ~10 individuals, and then in turn and hten in turn

17:30:13 mircea_popescu: is pretty much the most stable thing in nature.

17:30:33 mircea_popescu: you need about a dozen or so tiers and you're golden.

17:31:15 mircea_popescu: the problem we have now is with the nationalist state of napoleon (and the us which is really just a pale copy) having successfully attacked this natural wot

17:31:26 mircea_popescu: with the result of 99.99999% trusting 0.00001%

17:31:30 mircea_popescu: with just one tier you're fucked.

17:31:45 ThickAsThieves: is it even possible to prevent?

17:31:58 mircea_popescu: it's a self-limiting condition.

17:32:09 mircea_popescu: and teh time's tick tock.

17:33:13 ThickAsThieves: i mean in general, is a wot's compromise inevitable

17:33:25 mircea_popescu: my read of history shows it is, yes.

17:33:30 mircea_popescu: game theory indicates it is, too

17:33:45 mircea_popescu: the nation model only emerges in situations where "the right thing" is plainly obvious

17:33:54 mircea_popescu: these are necessarily limited in time and exceptional.

17:34:27 ThickAsThieves: so the compromise of bitcoin is inevitable

17:34:40 mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?

17:34:48 ThickAsThieves: it is a wot, no?

17:34:52 ThickAsThieves: miners mining

17:35:00 ThickAsThieves: people trusting the ledger

17:35:44 nubbins`: ehh....

17:36:01 mircea_popescu: but look : ten people in boondocks, new jersey somewhere who heard of bitcoin are tier 1

17:36:08 mircea_popescu: they all know this guy down the street, and trust him cause he's cool

17:36:10 mircea_popescu: he's tier 2.

17:36:25 mircea_popescu: he knows of the wot, and keeps deals with some other people so he can buy/sell btc for his friends at home

17:36:26 mircea_popescu: there

17:36:28 ThickAsThieves: core devs core-developing ( i also shoulda have added )

17:36:33 mircea_popescu: 's a guy that knows the mall and escrows for them

17:36:36 mircea_popescu: that guy is tier 3

17:36:41 mircea_popescu: these guys kind-of know each other

17:36:51 ThickAsThieves: but you are just making that all upo

17:36:53 ThickAsThieves: up

17:36:55 mircea_popescu: then one day mp wants to pay a girl in boondock, nj to wash his car with her tits

17:37:04 ThickAsThieves: i can make up tiers of compromise too

17:37:09 mircea_popescu: and the tier 3 guy goes "you know... you reall don't need to escrow mp

17:37:18 nubbins`: haha

17:37:22 nubbins`: "statistically speaking..."

17:37:30 mircea_popescu: im not making it up in that this has in fact happened.

17:37:34 nubbins`: nod

17:37:52 ThickAsThieves: yes but it does not counter the inevitable

17:37:52 nubbins`: fun fact, the Salty Spitoon is a restaurant in the Spongebob Squarepants cartoon

17:38:04 mircea_popescu: what'd be the inevitable ThickAsThieves ?

17:38:13 twizt: ty nubbins`

17:38:20 ThickAsThieves: that trusts systems are compromised on some timescale

17:38:23 nubbins`: np

17:38:23 twizt: not knowing that really bothered me for the last few days ;)

17:38:25 nubbins`: :)

17:38:30 ThickAsThieves: and i dont mean the earth exploding

17:38:37 nubbins`: i'm here to enlighten and occasionally mislead

17:38:38 mircea_popescu: i jus' don't see how this follows.

17:38:41 mircea_popescu: go into detail.

17:38:44 ThickAsThieves: for example

17:39:00 ThickAsThieves: i buy a GPU in tier 1, i mine,

17:39:12 ThickAsThieves: I buy an Erupter farm in tier 2

17:39:17 mircea_popescu: um

17:39:23 nubbins`: you can't be in both tiers

17:39:25 mircea_popescu: this doesn't seem to have anything to do with what i was saying

17:39:34 nubbins`: ^

17:39:55 ThickAsThieves: my point is that parties will seek to exp.loit the trust system

17:40:00 mircea_popescu: not really.

17:40:01 nubbins`: i think this went off the rails when tat stated that bitcoin is a web of trust

17:40:09 mircea_popescu: do your beer mates try to trick you into paying for their beer ?

17:40:15 ThickAsThieves: no

17:40:18 twizt: sometimes

17:40:23 mircea_popescu: right. parft of the definition of even beeing your mates

17:40:29 mircea_popescu: if they do you ditch them and get better ones.

17:40:37 mircea_popescu: now, suppose i need to evaluate 10mn beer drinkers.

17:40:40 mircea_popescu: can i do this ? how ?

17:40:43 twizt: or trick them into buying your weed

17:40:49 nubbins`: ^

17:40:50 mircea_popescu: simple : i ask all the people who know people who pay beer tabs.

17:40:52 mircea_popescu: 3 tiers.

17:40:56 nubbins`: twizt, nobody falls for that trick

17:41:03 mircea_popescu: this is how i find women, incidentally. i don't go into bars.

17:41:09 mircea_popescu: i just know girls that know girls that know girls.

17:41:10 twizt: its like barter

17:41:13 twizt: i got ur cheap beer

17:41:16 twizt: u get me expensive weed

17:41:20 twizt: (well atleast in USA)

17:41:29 KRS-: I saw two dancers french kissing yesterday it was nice.

17:41:31 ThickAsThieves: we are zoomed in to different parts of the 'wot'

17:41:36 mircea_popescu: seems so.

17:41:37 ThickAsThieves: i never said trust cant be develped

17:41:47 ThickAsThieves: nor that a wot cant be trusted

17:41:48 nubbins`: twizt, weed costs about the same to grow as tomatoes

17:41:51 nubbins`: plant-for-plant

17:41:58 ThickAsThieves: simply that over time, a trust system breaks down

17:42:01 twizt: wish i could grow yo

17:42:01 mircea_popescu: it's more than trust, tho. it's about control.

17:42:03 ThickAsThieves: and bitcoin is probly no different

17:42:05 nubbins`: consider that an ounce of weed should cost the same as a dozen hothouse tomatoes

17:42:09 twizt: my life would be 100x easier

17:42:10 mircea_popescu: what people in your wot say controls what you do.

17:42:29 mircea_popescu: which makes the wot a distributed political system

17:42:43 mircea_popescu: it's just that "distributed" does not mean one to many, as the nationalist representation of bork would have it.

17:42:44 nubbins`: a wot is not a static thing

17:42:49 ThickAsThieves: and what if we vote into power the wrong powers

17:42:53 nubbins`: i could trust someone fully today

17:42:56 mircea_popescu: it means few to one which groups in few to one which groups in few to one etc.

17:43:05 nubbins`: and then tomorrow he tries to strike my wife

17:43:11 nubbins`: now i don't trust him at all

17:43:12 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves if YOU vote the wrong guy YOU are screwed.

17:43:17 nubbins`: and any wot in which we both exist has changed

17:43:39 ThickAsThieves: suppose bitfury has 66% of mining right now

17:43:43 mircea_popescu: this is kind-of the gist of the old mpoe-pr post re personal responsibility

17:43:45 ThickAsThieves: just in their back pocket

17:43:59 mircea_popescu: "if all idiots vote in the wot like it is a nationalistic election, you will get a wot that works like your fucking country"

17:44:31 nubbins`: i rate +3 the users i'm most likely to enjoy drinking a beer with"

17:45:15 nubbins`: feel free to add the missing " or remove the dangling one

17:45:38 nubbins`: tautology either way

17:46:59 twizt: sounds like a martingale to me

17:47:01 ThickAsThieves: another thing I have trouble with is how we can easily point out the problems with inflationary money, but when we discuss the problems with deflationary we stop at "well hopefully it calms down"

17:47:23 twizt: some people can be trust worthy 99% of the time, and the 1% of time they get sketchy

17:47:31 twizt: can out weigh the 99% of times they were 'good'

17:47:31 mircea_popescu: we do?

17:47:42 ThickAsThieves: last time it was a topic at least

17:47:54 mircea_popescu: this is not on my list. quote!

17:48:42 ThickAsThieves: plz hold

17:50:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9349 @ 0.00092721 = 8.6685 BTC [-]

17:52:29 nubbins`: aha! paypal bucks sent, btc received

17:52:46 nubbins`: honestly thought it'd take longer

17:53:03 deadweasel: cool, now you can say you never rec'd and get your cash back! ;)

17:53:33 nubbins`: heheh

17:53:50 nubbins`: nah, this is a guy who i've traded casascius coins with before

17:54:08 deadweasel: glad he was trustworthy, twice!

17:54:13 ThickAsThieves: [18:10] <ThickAsThieves> we're kinda saying all spending of bitcoin is bad business, right?

17:54:13 ThickAsThieves: [18:10] <mike_c> yes

17:54:13 ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> we're saying that the quick increase in the btc rate puts responsible, competent ceos in the position where they forego fiat deployments

17:54:13 ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> this is a major problem for bitcoin atm.

17:54:13 ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <ThickAsThieves> atm, or forever?

17:54:14 ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> no argument. which is why it's a problem.

17:54:14 ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves hopefully it settles down.

17:54:24 nubbins`: me too

17:54:28 nubbins`: he sent first, even :0

17:54:34 deadweasel: whoa

17:54:54 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, mircea_popescu: all spending of btc is not bad business.

17:54:58 mircea_popescu: but this is an interfacing problem, not a deflation problem

17:55:09 mircea_popescu: you'd have the same difficulties if you landed in zimbabwe with a trunk full of dollars :

17:55:16 ThickAsThieves: does the interfacing problem exist without deflation?

17:55:20 mircea_popescu: you can't "invest" in zimbabwe until their failrency settles down

17:55:49 ThickAsThieves: does deflation "settle"?>

17:55:59 mircea_popescu: there is no deflation caught in that discussion at all.

17:56:06 ThickAsThieves: what amount of settling is likely or required?

17:56:17 mircea_popescu: it's just the fiat bubble bursting.

17:56:33 ThickAsThieves: same result no?

17:56:56 ThickAsThieves: when fiat bubble is done, will we not continue to deflate?

17:56:57 mircea_popescu: in the sense jumping out of a plane and having a piano fall on you yield the same result.

17:57:09 mircea_popescu: it's just that parachutes do little to protect you from falling objects.

17:57:30 ThickAsThieves: more like jumping off the earth vs out of a plan

17:57:37 nubbins`: it behooves one wealthy in btc to delay purchases/spending for as long as possible

17:57:39 ThickAsThieves: youll die from both

17:57:40 mircea_popescu: when the fiat bubble is gone we will actually deflate, but the effects of THAT are not judgeable by this.

17:57:46 nubbins`: but that's distinct from never spending at all

17:57:46 mircea_popescu: besides, bitcoin is hugely inflationary.

17:57:50 ThickAsThieves: but you wont land jumping off the earthj

17:57:54 mircea_popescu: much more so that fiat CLAIMS to be

17:58:12 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-bitcoin-macroeconomy/

17:58:16 mircea_popescu: see there, para I

18:00:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15390 @ 0.00093078 = 14.3247 BTC [+] {2}

18:03:01 ThickAsThieves: hmm

18:03:27 ThickAsThieves: do you believe the fiat bubble will actaully finish?

18:03:32 mircea_popescu: yeah.

18:03:43 ThickAsThieves: how long?

18:03:49 mircea_popescu: what am i, mafalda ?

18:03:54 ThickAsThieves: hehe

18:04:03 ThickAsThieves: well it seems like it drag out pretty far

18:04:14 mircea_popescu: hmm apparently this doesn't convert to english

18:04:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, mafalda was a late 1800s famous seer

18:05:06 ThickAsThieves: when i search i just get cartoons

18:05:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 432 @ 0.00293973 = 1.27 BTC [+] {11}

18:05:17 ThickAsThieves: i assumed she could tell the future

18:06:32 mircea_popescu: https://blogideologic.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/mafalda-in-cultura-populara-a-romanilor/

18:06:40 mircea_popescu: it's an actual historical person.

18:07:11 nubbins`: after skimming this article, i now understand

18:07:11 nubbins`: ;p

18:07:29 ThickAsThieves: i guess this conversation nullifies another question i had

18:07:32 nubbins`: you guys don't have paragraph breaks in romanian?

18:08:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04979777 = 0.1992 BTC [+]

18:08:17 ThickAsThieves: during the recent NY panels, we do they only mention volatility, and never bitcoin's deflationary problems

18:08:23 ThickAsThieves: why

18:08:29 mircea_popescu: because they read fraudsters.

18:08:44 ThickAsThieves: which i guess i should reform to, why do they not worry about hoarding

18:08:59 ThickAsThieves: answer is, cuz there's nothing they can do about it

18:09:01 mircea_popescu: why do you think hoarding would be a problem ?

18:09:02 ThickAsThieves: i guess

18:09:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.00295299 = 0.3809 BTC [+] {3}

18:09:46 ThickAsThieves: wouldnt extreme hoarding cause more volatility?\

18:09:57 mircea_popescu: let's do the following mental experiment.

18:10:14 mircea_popescu: suppose the original satoshi prototype only had 2.1mn total bitcoin, and original block reward was 5 btc.

18:10:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00295799 = 0.2662 BTC [+] {2}

18:10:22 mircea_popescu: what, if anything, do you think'd be different today ?

18:10:42 ThickAsThieves: core devs would add decimal places? :)

18:10:46 mircea_popescu: right.

18:11:00 mircea_popescu: now, imagine a different situation, in which 18.9 mn bitcoins have been hoarded.

18:11:09 mircea_popescu: why would things be different ?

18:11:20 nubbins`: s/hoarded/saved

18:11:25 mircea_popescu: strictly because those 18.9 mn coins COULD BE SPENT. but if they're spent... they're no longer hoarded.

18:11:37 ThickAsThieves: well it leaves potential for intense volatility

18:11:42 mircea_popescu: hoarding is self limiting. you either hoard or matter.

18:11:49 mircea_popescu: yes. it does.

18:12:01 mircea_popescu: guess what ? intense volatility hurts large holders most.

18:12:10 mircea_popescu: yet another point of elegant beauty typical of satoshi designs.

18:12:19 asciilifeform: that's sorta like saying that falling out of an airplane sans parachute isn't really so bad, i fell out of my bed as a boy once

18:12:20 mircea_popescu: definitely intelligent design at work here.

18:12:25 ThickAsThieves: heh

18:12:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part you mean ?

18:13:27 asciilifeform: traditional argument - if enough of the hoard were dumped, one could see a catastrophic stampede

18:13:33 mircea_popescu: sure.

18:13:43 mircea_popescu: but it is in fact the people hoarding that have least interest to see this happen.

18:13:54 ThickAsThieves: then hoarding is just building a bubble

18:13:56 mircea_popescu: the incentives are correctly alligned, which is the absolute most you can say of any system

18:14:07 asciilifeform: well that would depend on who's hoarding and why

18:14:14 mircea_popescu: notrly.

18:14:16 mircea_popescu: money perverts.

18:14:22 mircea_popescu: you can go into it thinking anything you wish

18:14:28 mircea_popescu: you'll come out of it thinking what it needs you to.

18:14:32 asciilifeform: 'nsa satoshi' hypothesis

18:14:45 ThickAsThieves: or anarchist satoshi

18:14:52 mircea_popescu: this is me doing the ny jew hand gesture.

18:14:56 ThickAsThieves: hehe

18:16:08 ThickAsThieves: can't have trust as value without thinking everyone is out to get you!

18:16:38 mircea_popescu: and can't have sex as value without trying to hump vaguely calf-shaped electricity poles.

18:16:46 mircea_popescu: or perhaps...

18:18:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, take the nsa satoshi hypothesis. so the nsa spent 5mn making this thing, which we all embraced. as part of that expenditure it has premined 10mn BTC, which it kept, secretly. we don't know.

18:18:59 mircea_popescu: today at nsa headquarters, "sir, i would like to apply for permission to spend 10bn usd dollars in btc equivalent by dumpting our stash"

18:19:08 mircea_popescu: "we don't have 10bn in the budget. application denied."

18:19:17 jayk: hohoho

18:19:38 mircea_popescu: bitcoin, even should it have made by nsa, has actually taken it over.

18:19:40 mircea_popescu: win.

18:19:53 ThickAsThieves: and for Anarcho Satoshi?

18:19:59 jayk: JP morgn wants to take it over

18:20:07 jayk: with their own version

18:20:40 ThickAsThieves: maybe i should make Satoshi was an Anarchist shirts, everyone will buy them thinking it's for the opposite reason

18:20:42 mircea_popescu: there's no way to ensure it won't be tat taking it over, with his own version.

18:20:53 ThickAsThieves: well thats obv

18:21:06 mircea_popescu: that's the problem here. bitcoin selects for and promotes some very narrow, specified things.

18:21:10 mircea_popescu: and it doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

18:21:16 mircea_popescu: for real, this time.

18:21:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

18:21:31 mircea_popescu: (generally, the old adage goes, careful what you claim for yourself, you might live to meet it)

18:22:08 ThickAsThieves: we just say, careful what you wish for

18:22:18 ThickAsThieves: (you just might get it)

18:22:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15000107 BTC [-]

18:23:01 ThickAsThieves: didnt Namworld buy that bitcoin shirt company?

18:23:06 mircea_popescu: ya but i like mine better.

18:23:11 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if he'll do it for real

18:23:12 jayk: before the banks accept bitcoin, they are trying to start their own version, like jp morgan is doing

18:23:39 ThickAsThieves: i just dont buy that

18:23:47 ThickAsThieves: no corp will make a coin anytime soon

18:24:13 ThickAsThieves: theyd have to be horribly out of touch

18:24:18 ThickAsThieves: like OracleCoin

18:24:20 ThickAsThieves: or such

18:24:49 ThickAsThieves: pretty much only Google or the USG could do it

18:25:12 Duffer1: you're talking about bankers here

18:25:21 Duffer1: horribly out of touch is their slogan

18:25:37 jurov: amazon alluded to it (maybe unintentionally)

18:25:49 mircea_popescu: a bank could od a very respectable coin.

18:25:49 ThickAsThieves: they arent so out of touch that they would sell something no one would buy

18:25:55 jurov: but that wouldn't be bad step

18:26:02 mircea_popescu: problem is, it'd need diametric's hr. which they dont have.

18:26:20 Duffer1: i fully expect jpmorgan or somesuch to ipo an alt coin then bet against it

18:26:29 ThickAsThieves: no way

18:26:29 mircea_popescu: lol

18:26:52 jayk: i expect someone like netflix to offer payments in bitcoin soon

18:26:55 ThickAsThieves: USG probly wont even let a bank make its own money

18:27:10 Duffer1: sure they could do a respectable coin

18:27:17 ThickAsThieves: netflix wont accept btc in 2014

18:27:26 jayk: publicity stunt

18:27:29 ThickAsThieves: nope

18:27:32 jayk: drive theit stock up

18:27:32 jayk: yes

18:27:37 ThickAsThieves: they have enough momentum without it

18:27:42 ThickAsThieves: they wouldnt wanna compromise

18:27:43 jayk: $$$

18:27:53 jayk: it works

18:28:01 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it wouldn't have to be an us bank.

18:28:19 mircea_popescu: fun fact : at the time the amsterdam bank rose to prominence, the thing that propelled it was its marginality

18:28:21 ThickAsThieves: they likely learned their lesson about confusing their audience when they announced that new thing that never happened

18:28:23 ThickAsThieves: what was it

18:28:28 mircea_popescu: specifically, small countries had problems with their clipped/worn currency

18:28:47 mircea_popescu: in general, a small outlier could take over the entire world economy by doing something smart like this.

18:28:52 jayk: overstock has gone up $15 in 1year

18:28:56 jayk: they now accept bitcoin dont they

18:29:03 ThickAsThieves: lol

18:29:51 ThickAsThieves: that outlier would have to have some way to get trust and establish a blockchain

18:30:17 ThickAsThieves: like google putting its own into Android

18:30:32 mircea_popescu: no. like getting the ok of someone in the space with enough authortiy to ok it.

18:30:46 mircea_popescu: problem being, of course, the space is full of fakers, and otherwise insanely expensive.

18:31:13 ThickAsThieves: so what wot do they use?

18:31:23 mircea_popescu: one of those "pay through the nose or waste your money" sort of situations which institutions handle so poorly.

18:31:51 jayk: haha: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1wt6mm/dont_broadcast_your_wifi_ssid_and_password_on/

18:32:03 jayk: superbowl wifi password broadcasted on national tv

18:32:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23080 @ 0.00092721 = 21.4 BTC [-]

18:32:46 ThickAsThieves: oh yeah thats today huh

18:33:35 Duffer1: wow..

18:34:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]

18:36:17 ThickAsThieves: "Interesting fact: $1 million dollars weighs 10kg exactly"

18:36:39 ThickAsThieves: finally found a qay to quantify dollars!

18:36:41 ThickAsThieves: way*

18:36:49 jayk: i placed my first bitbet, mircea_popescu

18:36:56 mircea_popescu: lol i wonder what on

18:37:05 jayk: snowden

18:37:37 mircea_popescu: a

18:37:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12428 @ 0.00092636 = 11.5128 BTC [-] {2}

18:42:14 nubbins`: huh, http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304626804579358943360702878

18:42:42 ThickAsThieves: dang

18:42:58 mircea_popescu: aww

18:43:38 Mats_cd03: 1mil or $10,099

18:43:44 mircea_popescu: he was better in flawless.

18:43:48 mircea_popescu: wtf is capote.

18:46:33 ThickAsThieves: why do celebs do heroine anyway? they spent all the other indulgences?

18:46:41 benkay`: "We won't be issuing another series for a while, nor will we be making further attempts to support seemingly "worthy" or "credible" "financiers" for a while, mostly because we're running out of quotes."

18:46:54 mircea_popescu: waithat ?!

18:47:48 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76515.msg1311976#msg1311976

18:48:21 benkay`: old gold is all

18:48:30 ThickAsThieves: when will mpex buy Ukyo & Graet debt?

18:48:32 benkay`: quick on the trigger you are today, ThickAsThieves

18:48:48 mircea_popescu: lol 2012

18:49:41 mircea_popescu: can't believe that chick's been building the snark since two years ago, and yet last month's noobs still "ambush" her

18:49:45 jurov: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/edward-snowden-intelligence-leak-nsa-contractor-extract

18:50:04 jurov: for anyone who did not follow it very closely

18:51:52 mircea_popescu: Feb 01 16:41:24 <ThickAsThieves> getting my hands on the source will be Altcoin's "2 weeks" << did you ?

18:52:28 ThickAsThieves: still waiting

18:52:34 benkay`: mircea_popescu: i don't see the hash options on your list of closed mpex assets

18:52:55 benkay`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77712.0 & http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-list-of-discontinued-assets-on-mpex/#identifier_1_48644

18:53:18 benkay`: drop the footnote link etc

18:53:31 mircea_popescu: becayuse theyre still on neh ?

18:53:36 nubbins`: TheTrueHOOHA is actually a better name than DPR

18:53:43 mircea_popescu: $vwap X.IDIFF.JUN

18:53:45 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.

18:53:50 mircea_popescu: lol

18:53:52 mircea_popescu: well, they are.

18:54:03 blg: HOOHA sounds very sexual

18:54:29 nubbins`: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/30/1391079438373/Young-snowden-2-008.jpg

18:54:34 nubbins`: looks very sexual too

18:54:39 benkay`: what, you tryna tell me an option to buy hashes is a future diff?

18:54:44 blg: nubbins`: lol

18:54:57 benkay`: (diff future i mean)

18:55:15 benkay`: i'm really just being a pedant here

18:55:43 jurov: benkay` id right, it was distinct from today's futures

18:55:48 jurov: *is

18:56:05 mircea_popescu: jesus yeah, there was a distinct set that died horribly. ie, with the mm taking it up the ass.

18:56:10 benkay`: just from the pedants perspective that asset series closed

18:56:45 mircea_popescu: see, you're adding value already.

18:57:00 mircea_popescu: now go make a post.

18:57:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9470 @ 0.0009272 = 8.7806 BTC [+]

18:57:09 benkay`: when did that series close?

18:57:41 mircea_popescu: i don't remember.

18:57:54 jurov: try archive.org

18:57:56 nubbins`: ` is so trendy these days

18:58:05 mircea_popescu: (dude this is so cool, i'ma do a series of i don't remember / i don't recall and be just like a real banker nao!)

18:58:21 nubbins`: jurov wins, benkay, you're out

18:58:30 mircea_popescu: benkay seriously tho, im pretty sure it was in a mpoe report. prolly died summer 2013 ?

18:58:58 benkay: this is the point at which i decide to archive all mpoe reports

18:59:58 nubbins`: but if you do that, what are you gonna spend your credits on?

19:00:10 benkay: learning romanian duh

19:00:18 nubbins`: lel

19:01:21 nubbins`: makes about as much sense as learning spanish just to read cien años de soledad, i guess

19:01:35 ````: doesn't copying content from fraudsters need consent written by a sharpie which is then put into the ass?

19:01:40 mircea_popescu: more sense than learning spanish to talk to the maid.

19:01:57 benkay: french is next on the docket

19:02:01 mircea_popescu: ```` as long as he doesn't distribute it...

19:02:19 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, i actually met someone who was doing that once

19:02:23 nubbins`: (for the book, not the maid)

19:02:32 mircea_popescu: i met both

19:02:38 mircea_popescu: my mother learned greek to read kavafis

19:02:41 nubbins`: TBH even in english it's beautiful, beautiful prose

19:02:52 nubbins`: i can't even imagine what it's like in the original language

19:03:56 benkay: the answer is August 2012, for those who care.

19:03:59 benkay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64962.msg1152708#msg1152708

19:04:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00093231 = 5.0345 BTC [+]

19:05:12 mircea_popescu: so summer indeed. wrong year, but hey.

19:07:17 ThickAsThieves: me: "How is it 2pm already?""

19:07:25 ThickAsThieves: wife: "You are a furry mess."

19:09:33 mircea_popescu: now rant at her about high finance

19:09:42 mircea_popescu: as if that makes it ok "no but honey til!"

19:09:52 ThickAsThieves: "Yeah well your dollars are turning into dust!"

19:10:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 93 @ 0.00295799 = 0.2751 BTC [+] {2}

19:15:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 45 @ 0.003 = 0.135 BTC [+]

19:23:44 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/kevinrose/status/429668252810100737 << ThickAsThieves

19:24:15 mircea_popescu: basically bitcoin got attacked in 2013 by the most unlikely of sources : the dieing start-up circus.

19:24:42 mircea_popescu: most nobody even noticed, or cared. except for the finest tuned of watchdogs or w/e

19:27:59 benkay: attacked?

19:28:06 mircea_popescu: well yes.

19:28:26 mircea_popescu: "There are more transactions of the cryptocurrency than Bitcoin, although it is only worth a tiny fraction of Bitcoin."

19:28:30 mircea_popescu: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/blog/2014/01/29/blog-dogecoins-message-chinese-investor-wolong

19:28:38 mircea_popescu: it's quite clear if you do aggregate counting.

19:29:06 mircea_popescu: they are attacking bitcoin. perhaps in the manner an ant attacks a rhino, but nevertheless. as far as the ant is concerned, in its own system of representations, that's what's going on.

19:29:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#469653

19:30:25 benkay: entertaining and all but from the ants perspective how is what they're doing an attack?

19:30:44 mircea_popescu: ant will kill rhino, skin it, wear the skin as king of the jungle.

19:31:01 benkay: like 'i am startup and will rule all the buttcorns'?

19:31:14 mircea_popescu: because if you get more fuckwits to retweet your inane shit you will thus therefore be "bigger" and "more important" than people with fewer retweets.

19:31:21 mircea_popescu: it's web start-up brain rot, quite typical.

19:32:15 mircea_popescu: in principle, every circlejerk imagines itself "the only thing out there". like, the us thinks it's "the world". any us court thinks it has universal jurisdiction. any us politician thinks that his decisions matter universally.

19:32:41 mircea_popescu: the va circus, as hopelessly fucked as they are, imagine that "all entrepreneurship" is... well... them.

19:33:07 mircea_popescu: that they will be crushed by much larger things that exist independent of their knowledge or understanding is about as aliento them as mpex customers to jimmothey

19:33:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999999 BTC [+]

19:33:59 mircea_popescu: so basically what we have here, is "everyone" in the sense of "everyone that goes to tech conferences in SF and reads techcrunch religiously" figures they can take over this novel idea.

19:34:01 ````: i can vaguely recall some very negative sentiment on ycombinator and else

19:34:18 mircea_popescu: ;;google ycombinator jointly and severally

19:34:19 gribble: Ycombinator continues to suck, jointly and severally : Bitcoin - Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19en4a/ycombinator_continues_to_suck_jointly_and/; Series AA Stock Purchase Agreement - Y Combinator: http://ycombinator.com/seriesaa/Series_AA_SPA.docx; European reforms are not enough, joint liability needed: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/12/european-reforms- (1 more message)

19:34:20 ````: then the silicon valley bank deal came (which ended nowhere)

19:34:27 mircea_popescu: there you go.

19:34:42 benkay: well sv bank can hardly be thought of as a high finance operation

19:34:48 benkay: they do payroll and what have you

19:35:10 mircea_popescu: anyway. an attack it is.

19:35:29 mircea_popescu: ironically, while the correct move may seem to be to support ltc to crush them back into the swamp,

19:35:40 mircea_popescu: the actual correct move is to simply support other alternatives to burn their underbase.

19:36:01 mircea_popescu: you want them to eat ltc's lunch to some degree, much like you want about 50 other groups to start their own, doge-food eating bitcoin killers.

19:36:41 mircea_popescu: so you know... ATC/ALT getting more hash than doge serves a good purpose in the end.

19:36:50 mircea_popescu: (funny how nobody seems to have noticed that, too :p)

19:37:16 ThickAsThieves: so what you're saying is Altcoin really is the first altcoin with a purpose

19:37:26 mircea_popescu: hehe. myeah.

19:37:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.16 = 0.48 BTC [+]

19:37:45 ````: woooo what a plot

19:37:59 jayk: a

19:38:11 jayk: :|

19:38:38 mircea_popescu: You see dear Internet, Juraj Variny was a simple country boy... you might say a cockeyed optimist, who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue.

19:38:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.16 BTC [+]

19:40:07 jurov: better go back to milk goats

19:40:20 benkay: goat tits

19:40:22 mircea_popescu: you can never go back.

19:40:26 jayk: goat milk is will keep you alive for weeks

19:40:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

19:40:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.165 BTC [+]

19:41:24 jayk: -is

19:41:27 jurov: only for weeks? afaik it's retty complete nutrition

19:41:40 jurov: *pretty :)

19:41:41 jayk: you might get sick of it and prefer to die

19:41:48 mircea_popescu: needs some slibowitz

19:41:51 jurov: ^^

19:42:04 jayk: ovaltine

19:42:31 KRS-: Mmm plum brandy?

19:42:58 KRS-: Humans are the only animal who natually drink another animal's milk.

19:43:12 KRS-: Although cats enjoy milk from cows, its not like they would get it in the wild.

19:43:25 mircea_popescu: cats do too if they can get it.

19:43:44 jayk: my cat is afraid of ducks

19:43:59 jurov: no duck milk for her, then.

19:44:01 benkay: cats are filthy scavenging vermin

19:44:06 jayk: lol

19:44:12 benkay: undomesticated to boot

19:44:45 ThickAsThieves: blasphemy

19:44:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.174 BTC [+]

19:44:56 benkay: get thee hence

19:45:25 jurov: *#b-assets erupts into riots caused by unkind remark about cats*

19:46:10 benkay: listen i expect my dependents to honor my every desire and worship at my feet

19:46:50 benkay: women are hard enough to domesticate

19:46:53 benkay: cats are impossible

19:47:13 ThickAsThieves: for example?

19:47:32 mircea_popescu: srsly, cats aren't that bad.

19:47:40 mircea_popescu: much like women, they autodomesticate if you're cool.

19:47:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 18 @ 0.00574444 = 0.1034 BTC [-] {2}

19:47:58 benkay: oh you

19:47:59 mircea_popescu: you may occasionally have to throw one out the window into traffic, but w/e

19:48:03 mircea_popescu: what's it cost, 200 bux tops.

19:48:27 ThickAsThieves: pretty much if you get a cat while its impressionable, make a good impression, it is a great pet

19:48:36 ThickAsThieves: sometimes you get crazy ones

19:48:41 chipug: same with women

19:48:43 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

19:48:52 mircea_popescu: most mistreated cats will actually also come to sanity

19:49:16 ThickAsThieves: maybe, but those are also void of personality

19:49:22 mircea_popescu: they're not that stupid to not be able to tell the difference, just need some time to decompress

19:49:27 mircea_popescu: nah, not rly.

19:49:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]

19:50:04 benkay: perhaps its that i live in america where men don't know how to handle women or cats and so all cats i encounter are of the 'let me out now let me in now let me piss on your rug' variety

19:50:20 ThickAsThieves: the only cat I have problems with is the wanna-be alpha that keeps attacking the smallest female

19:50:23 punkman: cats are assholes

19:51:12 mircea_popescu: benkay so take a kitten and raise it separately.

19:51:27 mircea_popescu: pankkake http://fraudsters.com/2014/your-cookies-are-borkt-seriously/#comment-97890

19:51:33 ThickAsThieves: well thats your first problem benkay

19:51:36 ThickAsThieves: dont let cats outside

19:51:57 benkay: i am not maintaining a shitbox.

19:52:06 ThickAsThieves: get a maid

19:52:12 benkay: i am not paying someone to maintain a shitbox in my residence.

19:52:39 ThickAsThieves: you cant both have time for the finer things AND do everything yourseldf

19:52:39 benkay: i am not having fucking absorbent chemically impregnated who knows the fuck what scattered all about my living space

19:53:02 benkay: finer things, in my case, are dogs.

19:53:16 ThickAsThieves: like those dont stink or need to go outside?

19:53:35 benkay: works with my personal proclivities marginally better

19:53:40 benkay: you know, like going outside

19:54:02 benkay: all living things stink

19:54:24 Bones: I'm a dog man myself, but benkay you still have a yard full of shit. Now what?

19:54:31 ThickAsThieves: all dead things stink too

19:54:33 benkay: i personally walk my dog

19:54:42 benkay: why on earth would i have a yard!?

19:54:47 benkay: or a house!?

19:54:55 benkay: sounds like a great deal of overhead.

19:55:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00093239 = 11.0022 BTC [+] {2}

19:55:06 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/smg-ianuarie-2014-statement/

19:55:10 Bones: So you would rather pick up shit than clear a shitbox. To each their own I suppose?

19:55:16 ThickAsThieves: lol, sounds like a joke

19:55:27 ThickAsThieves: I don't want a house, too much over head

19:55:49 benkay: Bones: did you miss the part where the shit is in your living space in one of those scenarios? or does that not matter to you?

19:55:50 mircea_popescu: he lives on a hilltop.

19:56:20 mircea_popescu: benkay i got news for you. the stuff that makes beer good ? it's shit, man. little craps taking a doodoo in your drink.

19:56:42 benkay: oh its chemistry o'clock nao

19:56:52 mircea_popescu: bread chiefly consists of other species' farts.

19:57:27 jurov: and fish piss into drinking water

19:57:29 ThickAsThieves: what is the proper daily dose of cat shit?

19:57:30 mircea_popescu: #bitcoin-assets grossout party ftw.

19:57:40 benkay: is this an elegant demonstration of the modern practice of saying things are other things cause words and derp?

19:57:46 mircea_popescu: we;re like preteen girlies over here.

19:58:05 Bones: lolpoop

19:58:05 benkay: look i farted - now you have my poo particles in your mouth

19:58:21 ThickAsThieves: benkay, we're just making you pay the price of hating on the world's most loved animal

19:58:30 benkay: what, women?

19:58:32 mircea_popescu: he hated on anteaters ?!

19:58:37 ThickAsThieves: ...

19:59:01 ThickAsThieves: this is serious business ladies!

19:59:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5500001 BTC [-]

19:59:05 mircea_popescu: ok Chickasschivas.

20:00:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55 BTC [-]

20:01:02 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/mina-competenta.gif << speaking of kitty training

20:02:02 benkay: i like the little recoil and pouty face

20:05:28 benkay: goat hiding his tracks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82573.0

20:05:53 mircea_popescu: doh.

20:06:40 benkay: not terribly effectively though

20:08:50 mircea_popescu: the thing with goat is that he's pretty much azn

20:09:01 mircea_popescu: he does a superficial 1st take of anything and leaves it at that.

20:09:16 mircea_popescu: other than that he;s just persistent. pretty much his whole strat.

20:10:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC

20:11:13 benkay: not a terribly bad strategy so long as he allocates correctly on his +ev options

20:11:42 mircea_popescu: it takes a particular sort of scum to actually apply it tho.

20:12:06 mircea_popescu: more adequate to whoring out anyway. i guess as an older guy he can't enjoy that where he is, so what's one to do.

20:14:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0288 = 0.1152 BTC [-]

20:19:08 ThickAsThieves: question, if i take the source from a different coingen package, is that not the same thing as what i need

20:19:19 ThickAsThieves: since we need to reverese engineer from genesis block anyway

20:19:56 benkay: aw man

20:20:12 benkay: the -assets altcoin doesn't have source in the wild. that's hilarious.

20:20:24 ThickAsThieves: well it was a whim

20:20:27 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what is the problem there anyway

20:20:40 ThickAsThieves: my guess, it's the weekend

20:20:41 benkay: "a thing worth doing is worth doing well"

20:20:46 mircea_popescu: ^

20:20:56 mircea_popescu: you never know when your whim coallesces into a schelling point.

20:21:05 ThickAsThieves: kill all the whimsy!

20:21:15 benkay: life is dead serious

20:21:18 benkay: be serious or be dead

20:21:25 mircea_popescu: this is why satoshi ran off

20:21:33 ThickAsThieves: heh

20:21:34 mircea_popescu: he couldn't cope with responsibilities of fatherhood.

20:21:40 mircea_popescu: deadbeatdadscoin

20:21:43 ThickAsThieves: smart man

20:22:03 mircea_popescu: ^ think about it. the coin to pay all alinomy in. utterly worthless coin everyone loves

20:22:05 mircea_popescu: FOR THAT REASON

20:22:46 ThickAsThieves: it is interesting though, how much work it really takes these days to promote a coin

20:23:50 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.msg4899791#msg4899791

20:24:01 mircea_popescu: i wonder if she just killed yet another thread or else we get epic butthurt

20:24:19 ThickAsThieves: but back to my orginal question

20:24:27 ThickAsThieves: if i get other coingen'd source

20:24:32 ThickAsThieves: can we work from it?

20:24:57 ThickAsThieves: i assume itd need to be a SHA256 coin

20:25:06 mircea_popescu: possibly. you'll need the original block details tho

20:25:14 mircea_popescu: which you should be able to have a miner dump

20:25:21 ThickAsThieves: pankakke mined it

20:25:39 mircea_popescu: then i have no doubt pankake can do by hand whatever's done automatically by coingen.

20:25:44 mircea_popescu: which... sucks for him.

20:25:55 ThickAsThieves: why?

20:25:58 pankkake: from what I see with bernankoin, all the details of the genesis block are in block 0 too

20:25:58 ThickAsThieves: i'll pay

20:26:20 mircea_popescu: why, cause it's work.

20:26:30 pankkake: it's annoying, lol

20:26:38 ThickAsThieves: so annoying you wouldnt do it?

20:26:40 mircea_popescu: pankkake you want to make a better coingen.io ?

20:26:46 pankkake: making that thing work was half my "development" time

20:26:54 mircea_popescu: with incorporated market (so all your new coins can be INSTA traded for al lothers ?)

20:26:59 mircea_popescu: that may actually be a revenu driver.

20:27:01 pankkake: maybe, not sure if it's worth the time

20:27:08 ThickAsThieves: insta pools, etc

20:27:14 mircea_popescu: hard to guess, maybe a few bitcoins a month.

20:27:16 pankkake: yes, it has to provide exchange

20:27:21 ThickAsThieves: likely what the new owners of coingenio plan to do...

20:27:33 mircea_popescu: you can definitely sink the coingen thing, from what my research shows bluematt sold it to an idiot.

20:28:01 mircea_popescu: and you can blow cryptsy right out of the water, because in is wholly manned by idiots

20:28:02 ThickAsThieves: mp if you put money into such i thing i will too

20:28:08 mircea_popescu: (check out their hiring page sometime for lulz)

20:29:16 ThickAsThieves: who was it that had the exchange

20:29:20 ThickAsThieves: maybe we start with that

20:29:25 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic ?

20:29:28 ThickAsThieves: bt-x or something

20:29:29 ThickAsThieves: yeah

20:29:34 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic baby, can you code ?

20:29:53 mircea_popescu: the beauty of #bitcoin-assets. businesses just fall in your lap all the time

20:30:02 mircea_popescu: to the degree one can't humanly cope.

20:30:11 pankkake: yeah :|

20:30:19 mircea_popescu: and also, benkay, you doing anything other than blogging and fucking your cat these days ?

20:30:27 ThickAsThieves: lol

20:30:43 mircea_popescu: cause a CLOJURE driven altcoin maker + exchange would be so fucking cool

20:30:45 benkay: dealing with the ungodly long enterprise sales cycle is all

20:30:52 benkay: oh god stop

20:30:56 mircea_popescu: nosrsly.

20:31:00 mircea_popescu: read the log

20:31:08 benkay: oh i have

20:31:16 benkay: let's do it in clojure you guys

20:31:37 benkay: someone knock together a reasonable ownership structure

20:32:14 pankkake: altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool

20:32:42 pankkake: set up an api for middlecoin

20:32:47 mircea_popescu: benkay you just put in all the work, then we list x% on mpex and people can invest.

20:32:55 mircea_popescu: let the market sort out the ownership structure.

20:32:56 ThickAsThieves: later we partner with fiverr for logo designers

20:33:08 benkay: i hate working for free

20:33:09 blg: 99designs is good too

20:33:09 benkay: HATE

20:33:10 ThickAsThieves: he maybe we need to make a bitcoin fiverr too

20:33:15 mircea_popescu: a that's a point.

20:33:28 mircea_popescu: well, how much do you want to be paid to altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool ?

20:33:51 pankkake: altcoin singularity

20:33:52 blg: 1000 btc

20:34:08 benkay: that's a great big fuck off pile of work

20:34:31 benkay: ;;calc 1000*800

20:34:31 gribble: 800000

20:35:08 mircea_popescu: blg what do you think this is, testnet btc ?

20:35:24 blg: 15:33 < mircea_popescu> well, how much do you want to be paid to altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool ?

20:35:27 blg: i was answering that question

20:35:34 ThickAsThieves: he was too

20:35:41 blg: then i dont get the reference

20:35:43 blg: sorry

20:35:57 ThickAsThieves: he's saying will you be paid in monopoly btc?

20:36:06 blg: oh lol

20:36:26 ThickAsThieves: cmon it really cant cost $1m to make such thing

20:36:29 blg: i have no problems turning monopoly in to real

20:36:34 ThickAsThieves: just buy the existing pieces

20:36:41 ThickAsThieves: :)

20:36:50 blg: well you have to buy a good programmer for the alt coin

20:37:00 benkay: ahaha

20:37:02 benkay: ho

20:37:09 pankkake: lol

20:37:12 ThickAsThieves: blg you misunderstand

20:37:13 benkay: tee hee

20:37:29 blg: i didnt read the scrollback at all once again i apologize

20:37:48 pankkake: the cost would be mostly having to run each coin daemon/pool

20:38:05 pankkake: otherwise, everything is automated

20:38:13 pankkake: well I don't know how to automate the windows build

20:38:27 benkay: yeah we skip windows build

20:38:30 mircea_popescu: automate the windows build IN CLOJURE

20:38:33 benkay: no.

20:38:36 mircea_popescu: come on, if this isn't sexy i dunno what is.

20:38:39 pankkake: no people are mad if there is no windows

20:38:48 benkay: really?

20:38:49 mircea_popescu: must has windows. this is altscams here.

20:38:58 mircea_popescu: nobody even knows what linux is in that subforum

20:39:01 pankkake: yes. first posts of bernankoin :(

20:39:05 Duffer1: the world isn't ready for MP coin ^.^

20:39:08 ThickAsThieves: help us centralize decentralization

20:39:27 Duffer1: still rely on windows deployment for mass adoption

20:39:37 mircea_popescu: coelho has warped ThickAsThieves' brain to the degree i don't know when he's paraquoting anymore.

20:39:53 benkay: windows over os x?

20:39:58 mircea_popescu: you kidding ?

20:40:05 mircea_popescu: you can't buy osx ready systems on food stamps.

20:40:10 benkay: no i have no idea about altcoin mkt

20:40:22 benkay: oh i see welfarecoin

20:40:25 benkay: (s)

20:41:18 pankkake: what's next, KentuckyFriedCoin?

20:41:22 ThickAsThieves: maybe with contract with USG for UScoin

20:41:24 ThickAsThieves: we

20:41:47 benkay: okay so concerns

20:41:50 benkay: i don't want to run this

20:42:16 lippoper: we should make a pizzacoin

20:42:29 benkay: more than happy to set up servers etc but it must be actually run by not me

20:43:01 ThickAsThieves: well it should run wherever whomever knows best thinks it should

20:43:26 benkay: location is another concern i want delegated to capitalizers of operation

20:43:47 mircea_popescu: what's "location" ?

20:43:52 ThickAsThieves: of servers

20:43:59 benkay: well there's an altcoin market involved right?

20:44:07 mircea_popescu: if he doesn't run it how exactly could he establish location

20:44:13 mircea_popescu: benkay altcoin-to-coin stricjtly.

20:44:18 mircea_popescu: we don't encourage the use of scamfiat.

20:44:25 benkay: ofc

20:44:29 benkay: so needs dedi

20:44:33 mircea_popescu: definitely.

20:44:56 blg: mircea_popescu: i'm PM'ing you if that's ok

20:44:57 mircea_popescu: you'll be herp-ddos'd all the time too. needs a decent dedi.

20:45:00 mircea_popescu: go ahead

20:45:39 benkay: colo with mpex?

20:45:46 mircea_popescu: then again this could easily live in the cloud.

20:45:57 mircea_popescu: prolly better that way as you'll have inelastic loads lal the time

20:46:06 benkay: no way are you suggesting putting wallets on virtual instances

20:46:26 mircea_popescu: why not /

20:46:35 jurov: benkay: no way you are suggesting putting wallets on frontend webserver

20:46:40 mircea_popescu: ^

20:46:54 benkay: right

20:47:04 benkay: oh well sure web heads are virtualized

20:47:05 mircea_popescu: so they'r evirtual. what of it ? so are you. backup well, be happy.

20:47:51 jurov: and amazon does offer persistent storage since 2 years ago or so

20:48:04 benkay: talking about different things here

20:48:16 mircea_popescu: jurov you wanna host this ?

20:48:25 benkay: i'm talking about linode-style virtualization compromises of wallets

20:48:41 mircea_popescu: benkay no because they can't read CLOJURE

20:49:01 jurov: and i'm asking why does one need zero-latency wallet access

20:49:14 benkay: one doesn't, jurov

20:49:20 jurov: it can happily live 50ms away

20:49:27 benkay: mp stoppit

20:49:44 mircea_popescu: what, are you trying to put a CLOJURE on my expression ?

20:49:53 benkay: ermergerhd

20:49:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 67 @ 0.003 = 0.201 BTC [+]

20:49:56 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:50:18 benkay: playing my biases so obviously just puts my hackles up

20:50:28 mircea_popescu: no, this is a legitimate business angle.

20:50:31 mircea_popescu: we'll just os the entire thing.

20:50:46 mircea_popescu: get a buncha fucktarded kids try to learn clojure to make their own market thing.

20:50:48 mircea_popescu: epic.

20:51:01 benkay: well, it's just lisp so they shouldn't have too hard of a time

20:51:07 mircea_popescu: so you think.

20:51:14 mircea_popescu: windows lips compiler ?

20:51:20 benkay: agqreiuhglerjbgaksdljbfsd

20:51:22 mircea_popescu: preferably as a python module ?

20:51:28 asciilifeform: obligatory turd! http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42

20:51:39 mircea_popescu: can you compile lisp in python run on linux via cygwin ?

20:51:54 asciilifeform: (how many people keep a flame war strong for ~5 yrs)

20:51:59 mircea_popescu: (provided of course you use ALL CAPS in the code)

20:52:02 benkay: mircea_popescu: http://docs.hylang.org/en/latest/

20:52:06 jurov: only with javascript and node emulation layer

20:52:25 mircea_popescu: jurov you mean they could get this in phpmyadmin ?

20:52:29 asciilifeform: write it in INTERCAL.

20:52:31 mircea_popescu: cause that'd help, they know phpmyadmin

20:52:33 jurov: implemented in haskell

20:53:09 mircea_popescu: but all the fun aside, srsly, a foss clojure implementation of this would actually be a great thing.

20:53:34 benkay: so: dev priorities then

20:53:55 Namworld: What the heck is this you are all talking about? Some retarted process that equals job security because you're then the only one able to update and maintain the business apps and software?

20:54:21 benkay: coingen, exchange, poolgen?

20:54:24 mircea_popescu: Namworld im trying to give the kid a breadloaf and he;'s trying to price himself out of it.

20:54:27 mircea_popescu: like all business ever.

20:54:48 benkay: exchange, coingen, poolgen?

20:54:52 mircea_popescu: benkay all 4 are needed out of the gate.

20:55:20 mircea_popescu: anyway, from what i read of lisp it is very productive and should be easy if you know what you're doing so like 500 lines of code.

20:55:24 benkay: what's number 4?

20:55:28 mircea_popescu: seeds

20:55:30 Jere_Jones: lol

20:55:34 benkay: ah seeds

20:55:38 Jere_Jones: "Just a couple of if statements"

20:56:07 mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones i know bunches of ppl who freelance, right ? "plz build me a better brain. should be easy if you know what you're doing'. 90% of all projects.

20:56:15 asciilifeform: intercal, i tell ya. what other language has a 'come from' statement.

20:56:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basic read backwards ?

20:57:45 Jere_Jones: mircea_popescu: I'm in process of writting an exchange and the devil is in the details. Anyway, that was a joke from a manager that I used to have where everything was simple and just needed a "couple of if statements".

20:58:13 KRS-: Oh cool, another coin.

20:58:17 KRS-: http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/150/6

20:58:21 mircea_popescu: another coin, another dolla.

20:59:28 KRS-: Other currencies, like Bitcoin, use dumb hard coded ‘mining’ processes that produces coins at a fixed rate that can’t change.

20:59:39 pankkake: oh god another DAC. where is the code, how is it supposed to work, stfu

20:59:40 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

20:59:45 ThickAsThieves: the longer we take to get to the altcoin singularity, the less bitcoins we can make off it

21:00:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2425 @ 0.00011977 = 0.2904 BTC [+]

21:00:05 jurov: all this ruckus.. just use some mature language supported by IDE with proper visual debugger

21:00:06 mircea_popescu: and meanwhile, i invite you all to a sing-along!

21:00:07 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY92AE1Aj-U

21:00:15 jurov: does clojure has it?

21:00:20 KRS-: This is really odd.

21:00:20 mircea_popescu: yes actually

21:00:30 jurov: php does not to this day (except some commercial ones)

21:00:30 pankkake: IDEs? visual debuggers? real men don't use that

21:00:39 jayk: mircea_popescu: how many companies do you have active

21:00:43 jurov: we are not talking about real men

21:01:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00011978 = 0.5989 BTC [+]

21:01:06 pankkake: next you're going to tell me you use a MOUSE

21:01:11 mircea_popescu: jayk a number thereof. i need an accountant for an exact count. why ?

21:01:21 jayk: curious i know of mpex and bitbet

21:01:28 mircea_popescu: a public btc corps, 4

21:01:33 KRS-: ThickAsThieves can you describe the altcoin singularity? I'm not sure what to make of all this coin sillyness.

21:01:33 jayk: oic

21:01:42 jurov: pankkake you use coinbr in lynx?

21:01:49 jayk: i signed up for mpex i will study it later

21:01:55 pankkake: I use pentadactyl

21:01:56 mircea_popescu: not any rush

21:01:57 ThickAsThieves: i dont think i wanna subject this channel to me describing it

21:02:06 KRS-: link?

21:02:07 benkay: jurov: it's called emacs

21:02:09 mircea_popescu: fuck i lost my drink

21:02:12 mircea_popescu: what is this world coming to.

21:02:13 jayk: oh

21:02:16 jayk: i dont drink

21:02:24 mircea_popescu: well now neither do i.

21:02:27 jayk: hah

21:02:33 jayk: superbowl time

21:02:33 jayk: bbl

21:02:55 pankkake: altcoin singularity = you only need to input parameters, exchange, pool comes online, middlecoin mines it and sells it

21:03:10 mircea_popescu: and sends you a report of how much profit it made.

21:03:29 mircea_popescu: and an animated gif of the champagne.

21:03:33 mircea_popescu: it's all very virtual.

21:03:43 benkay: has anyone here built an altcoin from source?

21:03:44 jurov: benkay i'm visual person and do bes with actual shapes, not just screenful of text

21:03:50 KRS-: an easier way to get BTC because of the inflated value?

21:03:55 jayk: benkay: i have a link for you

21:03:57 jayk: if you want to

21:03:58 mircea_popescu: benkay iirc pankkake has.

21:04:04 jayk: coingen.io

21:04:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2425 @ 0.000119 = 0.2886 BTC [-]

21:04:12 jayk: or there is a free verison but it might give yoau headache

21:04:16 mircea_popescu: omg ppls read the log.

21:04:25 benkay: free version of coingen?

21:04:32 benkay: can't say as i know what you're going on about.

21:04:35 jayk: i think he charges .05?

21:04:40 jayk: oh ok nvm

21:04:46 benkay: go watch your sportsball.

21:05:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00093295 = 21.2507 BTC [+] {2}

21:05:15 jayk: http://coingen.bluematt.me/build/f6ae0f64.zip

21:05:36 benkay: asciilifeform: it's a turd, but it ain't java.

21:05:59 ThickAsThieves: ;;ud singularity

21:06:00 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=singularity | singularity. A point in time at which, theoretically, technological progress accelerates exponentially, such that nothing taking place follwing said point can be ...

21:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3022 @ 0.00093379 = 2.8219 BTC [+]

21:06:20 ThickAsThieves: predicted

21:06:33 mircea_popescu: jayk http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2014#475503 KRS- http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2014#475319

21:07:26 ThickAsThieves: tonight, we dine on lunch!

21:07:36 KRS-: Thanks mircea_popescu

21:08:09 jayk: oh

21:08:31 benkay: going afk for a bit gents

21:09:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.099 = 0.594 BTC [+]

21:09:48 jayk: you dont like that

21:09:53 jayk: guy

21:09:56 benkay: also mircea_popescu save me from myself and help me not price myself out

21:10:04 ThickAsThieves: thats easy

21:10:11 ThickAsThieves: just say what it really costs

21:10:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1185 = 0.237 BTC [+]

21:10:31 benkay: requires knowing how long it really takes

21:10:45 ThickAsThieves: or estimation thereof

21:11:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

21:11:49 nubbins`: ^

21:12:03 pankkake: I seems like an awful lot

21:12:21 pankkake: many different things

21:12:39 benkay: such moving parts

21:12:39 ThickAsThieves: it's a whole business really

21:12:52 ThickAsThieves: not just a dev project

21:13:06 benkay: 's why i keep saying stop saying clojure to mp

21:13:07 mircea_popescu: it is a lot of work, yes. that's part of why it's worth doing, it always pays to sink your teeth in and do a fundamental bit well than try and chew a little off the edges.

21:13:08 ThickAsThieves: needs ongoing work too

21:13:56 benkay: how is the relationship with kakobrekla set up for ongoing work on bitbet?

21:13:59 pankkake: writing the exchange can be fun. the rest… eh

21:14:10 mircea_popescu: he got half the equity.

21:14:25 benkay: so he's incentivized to ship more to improve his profits

21:14:56 mircea_popescu: he's incentivised to have the thing running smoothly., which it has been.

21:14:56 benkay: i actually think setting up build servers would be fun

21:15:30 mircea_popescu: and that too was a lot of work, even if not necessarily obvious immediately.

21:16:06 benkay: uptime's a thing, yes

21:16:19 benkay: back in a few

21:20:03 turbo_ac100: Weren't all No bets on 'BitBet haxxed in 2013' supposed to be refunded and not paid out?

21:20:23 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 yeah.

21:20:33 dub: uptime is 13 years, 31 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 29 minutes

21:20:42 mircea_popescu: dub your c0k ?

21:20:44 jayk: did kakobrekla make the appl mistake?

21:21:43 turbo_ac100: But the were paid. Gift from kakobrekla I suppose. Thanks.

21:21:44 mircea_popescu: dub but srsly, you wanna host things ?

21:21:51 dub: fuck no

21:21:57 nubbins`: heh

21:22:00 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 make sure to make a thread about how bitbet's been scamming users tho.

21:22:16 dub: I just draw pictures, actual work is for monkeys

21:22:35 nubbins`: heh, ^

21:22:39 mircea_popescu: the paradox of honestly : idiots fucking up will amply report how it's all your fault. when you fuck up and you cover it... well... nobody really wants to mention it, cause w/e, kinda embarassing.

21:22:48 dub: what needs hosting?

21:23:00 mircea_popescu: the future of stupidity!

21:23:00 turbo_ac100: kakobrekla is scamming himself; not enough troll food in that one, sadly

21:23:12 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 exactly.

21:24:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.24310363 = 2.1879 BTC

21:27:03 nubbins`: "Listings for virtual currency are not permitted on the ebay.ca site and this category will be removed on February 10, 2014. You may continue to list these items on the ebay.com site in the Coins & Paper Money>Virtual Currency category in the Classified Ad format only."

21:29:07 dub: wat

21:29:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00082017 = 0.8202 BTC [+] {5}

21:29:35 ThickAsThieves: you wanna sell this garbage, go to america!

21:29:37 dub: I thought ebay.uk was adding virtual currency category onfeb 10

21:29:56 mircea_popescu: it's all very complicated.

21:31:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6500 @ 0.00011978 = 0.7786 BTC [+]

21:40:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00093192 = 8.3407 BTC [-]

21:41:25 jurov: bitstamp got hdd failure?

21:41:29 jurov: or what?

21:41:48 jurov: or they ran out of power in slovenia?

21:42:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00093379 = 16.8549 BTC [+]

21:44:22 mircea_popescu: apparently slovenia has an issue

21:44:26 herbijudlestoids: mornin

21:44:27 mircea_popescu: kako ran out of juice earlier

21:44:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.04800011 = 0.336 BTC [-]

21:45:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18551 @ 0.00093102 = 17.2714 BTC [-] {2}

21:46:33 mircea_popescu: http://www.bertc.com/subsix/i95/images/95-30.jpg << guess the chick.

21:46:34 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i hadnt really planned to make it into a blog post, but duffer1 asked if i had and i thought maybe it might be interesting to see what happens if i put it in a blog post :P ...whats wrong with blogspot?

21:47:02 mircea_popescu: it sucks omg!

21:47:11 mircea_popescu: seriously, get a blog you control.

21:47:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.169 BTC [-]

21:47:57 herbijudlestoids: very specific of you :P

21:48:19 mircea_popescu: you don't want some random idiots with a "here's a link to our other stuff" on your page,

21:48:25 mircea_popescu: you don't want to be stuck if you want to move domains,

21:48:37 mircea_popescu: you don't want anyone deciding if and when to put a "warning page" on your material,

21:48:47 mircea_popescu: you don't want them filtering your comments, or generally,

21:48:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

21:48:56 mircea_popescu: you don't want to help google in any way whatsoever unless it's paying for it.

21:49:01 mircea_popescu: do your own things.

21:50:34 herbijudlestoids: i think im ok with most of those things, and i feel like as long as there is no ads on the site then its probably costing google more than they are making off me in analytics

21:51:01 mircea_popescu: i'm never going to comment on it, for instance.

21:51:28 herbijudlestoids: im sure in the cases where iv said something stupid enough to warrant your comment, ill hear about it from gribble anyway :P

21:51:47 mircea_popescu: entirely possible.

21:52:07 mircea_popescu: all hitler needs is for ordinary people to keep using google.

21:52:55 punkman: we need Mircea Popescu's Search Engine

21:53:07 mircea_popescu: nah, let them do that.

21:53:18 jayk:

21:53:18 mircea_popescu: just don't help them do other things. buy ford cars, don't buy ford umbrellas.

21:55:22 punkman: the Android AIDS is spreading pretty fast

21:56:46 jayk: android aids?

21:58:43 herbijudlestoids: so basically i gotta go and setup fkn wordpress and buy a domain just to write some blogs i didnt originally intend to write lol

21:58:54 herbijudlestoids: yea i think ill pass

21:59:01 punkman: herbijudlestoids: http://staticsitegenerators.net/

21:59:10 punkman: you can just pastebin it

21:59:17 punkman: beats blogspot

21:59:30 mircea_popescu: pretty much anything beats blogspot.

21:59:44 mircea_popescu: pankkake see, there's the usercase

22:00:02 pankkake: ?

22:00:27 mircea_popescu: assets-blog

22:00:34 herbijudlestoids: well i would prefer pastebin but it doesnt let me insert content like images and equations

22:00:38 mircea_popescu: can you put a wordpress.com clone on the assass ?

22:00:38 pankkake: you're just switching evil google by evil MP

22:00:58 mircea_popescu: there's a difference in evil. @mp you can scream.

22:01:02 pankkake: WP.com is open source too, but… it's work to maintain it. I don't see the point

22:01:08 herbijudlestoids: ^

22:01:47 mircea_popescu: the point of work is control.

22:01:53 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i showed your blog to a few people over the weekend, they *all* asked if the guy in the photo with the beard is me

22:02:00 mircea_popescu: lol

22:02:02 herbijudlestoids: i kind of look like that

22:02:10 herbijudlestoids: (especially when im bearded)

22:02:24 mircea_popescu: "if your daddy doesn't have a beard you have two moms"

22:02:24 pankkake: I do host my own blogs, but it takes time, sometimes I fuck up, etc. I don't want to do that for other people

22:02:39 mircea_popescu: pankkake why not ? the more you fuck up for other people the more you have reason to love them.

22:02:55 pankkake: no, and I have done it before

22:03:26 herbijudlestoids: so between posting the blog article here and on reddit i managed to drive 180 views to the article

22:03:34 herbijudlestoids: interesting

22:03:51 mircea_popescu: no, see ?

22:03:53 pankkake: also needs backups that are dead man proof

22:03:56 KRS-: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wu6je/bitcoin_investment_55_450_daily_for_80_days_lets/

22:03:57 ozbot: Bitcoin Investment - 55% - 450% DAILY FOR 80 DAYS. Lets make Bitcoin the international currency norm

22:03:57 mircea_popescu: six months down the road you will be kicking yourself.

22:03:57 KRS-: seems legit

22:04:23 mircea_popescu: pankkake ppl can backup their own shit in wp.

22:04:35 pankkake: hm, right

22:04:42 pankkake: with wordpress.COM too by the way :p

22:04:52 KRS-: If Russia makes BTC illegal with all businesses and financial institutions what market value hit do you think we'd see? 10%?

22:05:00 pankkake: so you can always chose to go elsewhere easily

22:05:03 mircea_popescu: KRS- + more likely than -

22:05:09 herbijudlestoids: wihle i was on reddit last night i saw someone with a thread about how mtgox was going to bust soon, they apparently have even stopped btc withdrawals?

22:05:25 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids they've been dead man walking since april 2013.

22:05:39 jurov: KRS- negative govt recognition always helps

22:05:43 mircea_popescu: other than the penny ante noobs not rly anybody still using them as best one can determine

22:05:46 KRS-: what rly

22:06:00 KRS-: wouldnt a ton of coin be dumped by those who cant use it anymore

22:06:10 mircea_popescu: what are you, 12?

22:06:17 KRS-: Wouldnt the supply increase?

22:06:23 mircea_popescu: the last thing someone does in a jurisdiction that made btc illegal is dump it

22:06:35 KRS-: oh it does the opposite

22:06:38 mircea_popescu: doh.

22:06:50 Dimsler_: no they wouldn't

22:06:52 TATonawalk: added thoughts on bitcoin fiverr - integrate with wot to manage reputation. package that integration method as an identity service for other cryptobizzes. handholding the masses into compliance and get paid for it.

22:06:54 Dimsler_: thats just silly

22:07:09 Dimsler_: you can apply that to prohibition in the US

22:07:11 Dimsler_: and the war on drugs

22:07:17 Dimsler_: nobody was dumping anything

22:07:21 mircea_popescu: TATonawalk adding to the workload at this point is stupid. let it be simple.

22:07:22 KRS-: makes sense..sorry for my ignorance.

22:07:36 jurov: rly. if govt wanted to tax it instead, that could cause some problem.

22:07:38 TATonawalk: just sharing

22:07:46 mircea_popescu: KRS- dun feel too bad

22:08:26 KRS-: Its cool..I don't mind learning..I'm an IT guy with a business degree, I actually should know better.

22:08:45 benkay: i was perusing a buddy's lady's business textbook

22:08:52 TATonawalk: could be an independent thing anyway

22:08:55 benkay: goodness the things they say about network design

22:09:09 TATonawalk: making the wot friendly easy

22:09:17 mircea_popescu: not a bad idea.

22:12:57 herbijudlestoids: 20 tick returns distribution: http://imgur.com/ABfjFaX

22:13:07 herbijudlestoids: 20 tick vols: http://imgur.com/AJsBk7H

22:13:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1300001 BTC [-]

22:13:58 herbijudlestoids: pretty good to see vols clustering and mean reverting, good sign of a healthy microstructure in the market

22:14:07 mircea_popescu: this thing really gives the finger.

22:14:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.13000008 = 0.26 BTC [-] {2}

22:14:19 mircea_popescu: i mean... both pics nao

22:15:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.12666666 = 0.76 BTC [-] {3}

22:16:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10899999 BTC [-]

22:17:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10966666 = 0.329 BTC [+] {2}

22:18:12 benkay: what's the hot jam for running pools?

22:18:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.12 = 0.84 BTC [+]

22:18:31 nubbins`: cum

22:18:46 benkay: eloipool?

22:18:54 nubbins`: oh, sorry, thought you said ruining pools

22:19:21 benkay: no clarification needed nubbins`

22:19:27 mircea_popescu: cum ruins pools ?!

22:19:30 mircea_popescu: o may gawd....

22:20:24 TATonawalk: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtz2b/2124_btc_destroyed_in_proofofburn/ dafu?

22:20:25 ozbot: 2124 BTC destroyed in proof-of-burn : Bitcoin

22:20:36 herbijudlestoids: here is a detrended price oscillator against the same timeseries http://imgur.com/zZgcAqn

22:21:29 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids all this stuff almost makes me believe s.mpoe is not a scam after all.

22:21:44 mircea_popescu: i mean... it almost looks like a regular stock

22:21:52 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, ikr? weep for what you have done

22:21:57 herbijudlestoids: almost, trades a lot less tho

22:22:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3050 @ 0.00011978 = 0.3653 BTC [+]

22:22:56 mircea_popescu: nubbins` all these years...

22:23:10 mircea_popescu: TATonawalk you mean dafe ?

22:23:55 mircea_popescu: "The Counterparty Team just went ahead and wrote their own stuff, doing what Colored Coins, NxT and Mastercoin failed to do these past 6 ? 9 months. Not even Ripple has assets like these issued and trading."

22:24:06 mircea_popescu: well at least *part* of that statement is correct.

22:25:06 asciilifeform: 1) set up 'proof of burn' addrs with secret escape hatch 2) profit

22:25:34 pankkake: oh of course it comes with its coin

22:25:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neverhteless, the assessment that nxt, cc, mc etc did nothing the past 9 months is correct.

22:26:21 mircea_popescu: then again cc did nothing over 3 installments and 2+ years.

22:26:25 asciilifeform: did nothing?

22:26:32 asciilifeform: other than chump-vacuuming, you mean ?

22:26:45 mircea_popescu: hardly any of that, either.

22:27:10 mircea_popescu: the thing with chump vacuuming is that creating the impression of a lot of chumps having been vacuumed already is part and parcel of the model.

22:27:34 mircea_popescu: sort-of like if a lion's success in catching gazelles was helped by it going around with a lot of dead gazelles.

22:27:52 asciilifeform: naturally, a discerning chump will insist on parking in a mass grave of his peers, not some lonely hole in an abandoned lot

22:27:58 mircea_popescu: there;d be dead gazelle lure shops for entrepreneurial lions

22:28:08 pankkake: I haven't looked up nxt's proof of stage algo… the half open java source doesn't help

22:28:13 pankkake: of stake*

22:28:37 mircea_popescu: i can't believe someone's still expecting to be taken serious with java

22:29:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 31 @ 0.00448889 = 0.1392 BTC [+]

22:29:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 36681 @ 0.00011978 = 4.3937 BTC [+] {3}

22:30:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [-]

22:30:40 ThickAsThieves: 'we arent spending those burned coins, just moving to safer location!'

22:31:08 mircea_popescu: waitwut

22:31:15 ThickAsThieves: joking

22:31:15 asciilifeform: 'phoenixcoin,' rises from ashes.

22:31:17 dub: proof of scam

22:31:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0288 = 0.1152 BTC [+]

22:31:36 pankkake: phoenixcoin exists by the way

22:31:46 asciilifeform: ought to include 'burns'

22:32:00 ThickAsThieves: every satoshi spent is a burn

22:32:02 nubbins`: smashrate

22:32:02 nubbins`: etc

22:32:20 pankkake: we could generate every coin for every word of the dictionnary, but the port numbers would conflict

22:32:30 nubbins`: sure, until portcoin

22:33:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02879999 = 0.1152 BTC [-] {2}

22:33:39 ThickAsThieves: we will have to refer to our conversation of bitcoin business names for altgen.io

22:33:50 pankkake: getrichquick.io

22:34:03 pankkake: getrichordietry.in

22:34:06 ThickAsThieves: coinularity

22:34:10 asciilifeform: 'getpoorquick'

22:34:21 herbijudlestoids: judging from the charts, MPOE does seem like a very good candidate for mean reversion trades

22:34:26 pankkake: well, we're not saying who's getting rich

22:35:01 ThickAsThieves: gryft

22:35:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29984 @ 0.00093403 = 28.006 BTC [+] {3}

22:35:52 ThickAsThieves: crowdcoin

22:36:11 benkay: what the hell is up with the pool software space

22:36:12 ThickAsThieves: crowncoincloud.io

22:37:11 ThickAsThieves: fortune9000

22:37:15 pankkake: hahaha

22:37:24 benkay: fortuneover9000

22:37:47 pankkake: thatsthejoke.io

22:38:04 benkay: upyourbutt.coin

22:38:13 ThickAsThieves: piratesbengay

22:38:19 mircea_popescu: lol

22:38:43 mircea_popescu: yourefuck.ed ?

22:39:21 KRS-: heh

22:39:22 ThickAsThieves: cryptogen

22:39:23 mircea_popescu: yourefuck.edu actually. just for that lovely your e-fuck, youre fuck etc grammar splendor.

22:39:49 ThickAsThieves: all in the name of education

22:39:52 mircea_popescu: the ideal one'd be co.in of course.

22:40:09 mircea_popescu: i don't think we're springing for that tho

22:40:29 ThickAsThieves: maybe this guy is selling http://altco.in

22:40:43 jurov: fc.uk

22:42:57 ThickAsThieves: i shoulda done the damn domain squatting ipo

22:42:59 ThickAsThieves: .coin

22:43:01 ThickAsThieves: .bitcoin

22:43:02 ThickAsThieves: etc

22:43:15 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in countries which are not slovenia : http://noescapepublicnudity.tumblr.com/image/42491287328

22:43:56 jurov: that's in czech rep

22:44:24 mircea_popescu: mhm

22:44:33 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbdt/doge_devs_just_fucked_all_the_initial_investors/

22:44:34 ozbot: Doge devs just fucked all the initial investors by making Doge very inflationary and removing the ca

22:44:45 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ha!

22:44:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

22:44:49 herbijudlestoids: lol "investors"

22:44:59 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids no, they actually believe this

22:45:25 KRS-: http://shouldipanicsell.com/

22:45:25 ozbot: Should i panic sell ?

22:45:27 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbdt/doge_devs_just_fucked_all_the_initial_investors/cf5fcfg

22:45:27 KRS-: lmao

22:45:28 ozbot: TATInvestments comments on Doge devs just fucked all the initial investors by making Doge very infla

22:45:32 KRS-: Hey ozbot wb

22:45:38 KRS-: .bait

22:45:39 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzynlvUDlu1r2mc2eo1_500.jpg

22:45:47 ThickAsThieves: actually

22:45:51 KRS-: ThickAsThieves think this is a good buying opportunity?

22:45:54 ThickAsThieves: no source code!

22:45:59 ThickAsThieves: its a feature!

22:46:00 KRS-: Oh my bait

22:46:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76350 @ 0.00093503 = 71.3895 BTC [+] {3}

22:47:11 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves here's the cool part : 19:24:15

22:47:12 mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu:

22:47:12 mircea_popescu: basically bitcoin got attacked in 2013 by the most unlikely of sources : the dieing start-up circus. that was... bout 6 hours 20 mins ago ?

22:47:36 mircea_popescu: the numerous conincidences of cryptozoo.

22:48:12 pankkake: http://i.imgur.com/cE3U4dJ.jpg

22:48:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

22:48:53 ThickAsThieves: i wash my hair of this!

22:49:23 pankkake: dogecoin isn't especially inflationary

22:49:48 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbiu/how_i_stole_roughly_100_btc_from_an_exchange_and/

22:49:51 ozbot: How I stole roughly 100 BTC from an exchange and how I could have stolen more : Bitcoin

22:49:56 ThickAsThieves: (Coinbase)

22:50:33 pankkake: lol what kind of noob thing allows that

22:50:45 pankkake: first post on point

22:51:36 benkay: wowee #dogecoin is an utter shitshow

22:51:41 ThickAsThieves: mpex does same thing sometimes, no?

22:51:46 ThickAsThieves: the Bugpowder incident

22:51:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12323332 = 0.3697 BTC [+] {2}

22:52:08 KRS-: Mmm

22:52:09 KRS-: .bait

22:52:10 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0m64is25j1qaooc8o1_500.jpg

22:52:17 dub: benkay: yeah lol

22:52:18 jurov: but it did not end up with successful withdrawal

22:52:25 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how you mean ?

22:52:31 herbijudlestoids: KRS- just sits in here baitin all day

22:52:31 dub: its like /b/ without ritalin

22:52:40 ThickAsThieves: he got a receipt for an option he didnt get

22:52:55 KRS-: .bait is a nice feature.

22:53:05 jurov: afaik only once me and smickles confused mircea into doing a withdrawal twice

22:53:06 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxmqrg63E61r1ricko1_1280.jpg

22:53:37 mircea_popescu: so how is this related ?

22:54:13 ThickAsThieves: just saying that not just noobs have systems that can break linear value movement

22:54:32 jurov: oh yes, lock yer balances correctly

22:55:08 mircea_popescu: mpex spouts all sorts of crap all the time tho,

22:55:24 mircea_popescu: bujt the problem there seems to be that they executed crap, not that they claimed crap

22:56:06 ThickAsThieves: pots and kettles can share color, but not shape

22:56:43 mircea_popescu: making a woman is hard enough

22:56:53 mircea_popescu: making her also say what she means is beyond even what god can accomplish

22:57:01 ThickAsThieves: amen

22:57:51 ThickAsThieves: mpex is a tin woman?

22:58:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.125 = 0.25 BTC [+]

22:58:05 ThickAsThieves: the burden of money

22:58:07 davout: mircea_popescu: lol

22:59:26 mircea_popescu: look, we got fixed len str

23:00:32 mircea_popescu: jurov there's a guy that managed to get his assets transferred twice back in the old days (2012), netted like 300 btc from it.

23:00:45 mircea_popescu: opperator error.

23:00:56 jurov: nice. i gained only 10btc.

23:01:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00093536 = 14.2175 BTC [+] {2}

23:02:25 mircea_popescu: "I don't see this making a difference. There are lost coins in every currency. A 10K block reward is peanuts. Any anyways, the developers could always modify this in the future if it became a problem."

23:02:31 mircea_popescu: gotta love all the damage control.

23:02:36 mircea_popescu: someone's working overtime this weekend.

23:03:11 ThickAsThieves: the realize the power of Altcoin and that they need to gut themselves quickly

23:03:15 ThickAsThieves: they*

23:03:42 herbijudlestoids: here are the MPOE trade volumes http://imgur.com/fNa5B9q per tick, no discernible diurnal pattern

23:03:52 ThickAsThieves: 100 Bitcoin ATMs Land In Australia

23:03:54 ThickAsThieves: not bad!

23:04:25 mircea_popescu: actually from there seems people are coding their bots to sorta split orders over ticks huh

23:04:45 herbijudlestoids: almost certainly

23:04:49 mircea_popescu: (i wouldn't expect any pattern, since most everyone will be trading via pympex or similar, it's trivial to just schedule w/e)

23:05:02 mircea_popescu: diurnal or w/e i mean

23:05:25 herbijudlestoids: well most stuff i watch is traded algorithmically in aggregate and still has strong diurnal patterns

23:05:35 herbijudlestoids: i guess usage is much higher

23:05:38 mircea_popescu: this is a point

23:05:49 mircea_popescu: maybe people actually suck at algos in fiat ?

23:06:01 mircea_popescu: ie, their algorithmia is more akin to a wheelchair than a car

23:06:51 mircea_popescu: alternatively, australia, japan, china, russia, iran, europe, the us... there might be some slight pattern not visible cause low sample yet.

23:07:01 herbijudlestoids: yes thats possible too

23:07:19 mircea_popescu: basically what do you see in the other stuff, the pacific ocean right ?

23:07:54 herbijudlestoids: depends, but mostly the tokyo/london/NY is the 3 prominent phases

23:07:59 mircea_popescu: ah

23:08:09 mircea_popescu: well also yeah, bitcoin doesn't realyl have "financial centers"

23:08:11 herbijudlestoids: and the hours where they overlap liquidity is strongest

23:08:58 herbijudlestoids: for example tokyo/london overlap is only slightly less liquid than london/NY overlap, and in currencies like AUDJPY or index futs like HSI its more liquid

23:09:33 herbijudlestoids: doesnt have financial centers, yet ;)

23:09:57 mircea_popescu: i doubt it'll ever have any. why would it ?

23:11:08 mircea_popescu: also... i suspect a large number of btc people are not-normal sleep patterned.

23:11:32 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: lets say for example bitstamp becomes the #1 worldwide retail payment gateway foreverything forever

23:11:41 mircea_popescu: okay

23:11:52 herbijudlestoids: obviously they will affect the diurnal pattern because they do payouts on a cyclical basis

23:12:00 herbijudlestoids: err bitstamp==bitpay, sorry

23:12:18 mircea_popescu: lol bitstamp made some sense, even if kako was gonna kill you once he got his electric chair back

23:12:26 mircea_popescu: but bitpay ?! i dun see it in any sense.

23:13:07 mircea_popescu: anyway. few people if at all trade on this junkie's routine, of gotta wait for check to clear style.

23:13:25 mircea_popescu: generally people maintain liquidity through planning, it'd be rare that a trade has to be stayed because waiting for confirms.

23:14:04 herbijudlestoids: ye, i was mostly just curious, actually kind of hoping to see an obvious time based pattern so i could focus some efforts into that window

23:14:08 mircea_popescu: it'd also be antieconomical

23:17:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17 BTC [+]

23:17:20 herbijudlestoids: anyway, i guess i better do some real work today since its monday.

23:17:26 herbijudlestoids: behave yourselves children :)

23:22:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2633 @ 0.0009328 = 2.4561 BTC [-]

23:22:39 benkay: mircea_popescu: pm

23:23:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

23:25:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.57724998 = 2.309 BTC [+] {3}

23:29:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 400 @ 0.005 = 2 BTC

23:36:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14161 @ 0.00093541 = 13.2463 BTC [+]

23:37:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 38 @ 0.00448889 = 0.1706 BTC [+]

23:48:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

23:52:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00295769 = 1.4788 BTC [+] {6}

23:57:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17244 @ 0.00093564 = 16.1342 BTC [+] {4}