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Transcript for 02-04-2014, 2173 lines:

00:06:10 benkay: beery musings on hiring cut rate developers and bringing technical debt down on your non-technical ass: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/01_i-dont-build-vms-on-developer-machines.html

00:06:43 benkay: blackwhite, mike_c mircea_popescu kakobrekla jurov and others with experience in software game thoughts welcome

00:07:26 BingoBoingo: Fodder for people writing BitBets http://deadspin.com/60-maybe-surprising-player-projections-from-baseball-1556153816

00:07:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20797 @ 0.00093956 = 19.54 BTC [-]

00:14:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 37 @ 0.04297892 = 1.5902 BTC [-] {17}

00:15:24 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=552981.msg6025913#msg6025913

00:15:25 ozbot: MPOE-PR Perma-Banned after warning, Temp Ban more appropriate?

00:15:52 pankkake: :(

00:16:35 benkay: she needs a break anyways

00:16:48 benkay: all that cortisol's gotta hurt after a while

00:18:09 BingoBoingo: Yeah.

00:19:22 blurden: who was she?

00:20:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 753 @ 0.00093959 = 0.7075 BTC [+]

00:21:00 BingoBoingo: blurden: She did PR work for mircea_popescu on the forum. And was banned yesterday. Only real ourcomes is the forum is nao shittier and MPEx loses a recurring expense.

00:21:11 benkay: ;;ticker m s.mpoe

00:21:11 gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the (1 more message)

00:21:21 benkay: !t m s.mpoe

00:21:22 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093761 / 0.00094363 / 0.00095224 (1204518 shares, 1,136.63 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094315 / 0.00095866 (6836953 shares, 6,448.31 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087678 / 0.00096 (29662669 shares, 26,007.79 BTC)

00:21:30 BingoBoingo: !t h neo

00:21:30 assbot: The vision of Christ that thou dost see ... is my vision's greatest enemy.

00:21:53 benkay: !t h neobee

00:21:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK:NEOBEE] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00155000 / 0.00222093 / 0.00288888 (79093 shares, 175.66021386 BTC), 30D: 0.00155000 / 0.00341061 / 0.00540000 (458355 shares, 1563.26867969 BTC)

00:24:42 blurden: !t h rentalstarter

00:24:43 assbot: The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.

00:24:59 blurden: !t h rent

00:25:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00750000 / 0.0075 / 0.00750000 (1705 shares, 12.78750000 BTC), 7D: 0.00525030 / 0.00722193 / 0.00750000 (20590 shares, 148.69955354 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.00614936 / 0.00900001 (59161 shares, 363.80201440 BTC)

00:25:29 BingoBoingo: ! h cog

00:26:54 BingoBoingo: http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/the-people-behind-bitcoin/

00:26:55 ozbot: The people behind Bitcoin | bitslog

00:29:09 benkay: "So once again, I must thank Aravind, Gavin, Timo, Luis and all other great people for being behind Bitcoin, which means no other thing that transmitting the passion for it to other people."

00:30:42 BingoBoingo: I smell another hardfork in the next 18 months

00:37:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62450 @ 0.00093696 = 58.5132 BTC [-] {3}

00:38:13 turbo_ac100: !t h cog

00:38:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK:COG] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 30D: 0.00200000 / 0.03005337 / 0.06998899 (913 shares, 27.43872983 BTC)

00:38:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00093677 = 6.37 BTC [-]

00:39:02 kakobrekla: more of a FOG than COG

00:39:44 pankkake: kakobrekla do you know who banned you?

00:40:03 kakobrekla: first time yes, second time no

00:40:19 pankkake: so they actually act anonymously. cowardly scum

00:41:14 pankkake: who was the first?

00:41:29 kakobrekla: badbear

00:42:03 pankkake: ah, with the good trust trating already lol

00:57:43 asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform

00:57:43 gribble: Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7

00:58:46 asciilifeform: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:6d513a0718c57a04a7b7789d1718a0451eb1f4173191a8c2476bf21b

00:58:47 gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7

00:59:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/snsa-march-2014-statement << looks correct.

00:59:50 asciilifeform: damn i leave for one day to do meatspace crap and miss all the fun.

01:01:14 asciilifeform: how difficult is it to get listed on mpex... kakobrekla asciilifeform etc could comment on it << i still have no idea what to say to hypothetical random people who want to be listed.

01:01:36 asciilifeform: aside from 'have useful idea, mp might invite you as co-author'

01:03:47 mike_c: well, you're skipping the step where you spent x years becoming an expert in your field.

01:04:03 BingoBoingo: Well, the history of ventures without MP as a coauthor on MPEx hasn't been spectacular with X.EUR's fate undetermined as of yet. Maybe davout should be included in the asked as well.

01:10:06 asciilifeform: plenty of people know how to program.

01:10:29 asciilifeform: but, for some reason, they are all very far away.

01:10:37 asciilifeform: or, almost all.

01:15:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10347 @ 0.00093871 = 9.7128 BTC [+]

01:18:44 BingoBoingo: Well, there's programing, programming well, copypasta, and then just being a dick to a REPL prompt

01:19:01 BCB: who did MP piss off this time?

01:19:12 BingoBoingo: BCB: The PR pissed off Maged

01:19:28 BCB: ha

01:19:37 BCB: what happened ;;tldr

01:19:53 BingoBoingo: Maged or other mods had been deleting posts, so... loss doesn't seem to be big

01:19:59 mike_c: maged: "shut up". PR: "fuck you". maged: "you're banned".

01:20:11 BingoBoingo: Basically it was the NeoBee thread.

01:20:26 BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/04/01/betting-analysis-gems-bitbet-py/

01:20:27 ozbot: Betting Analysis Gems: BitBet.py | Bingo Blog

01:21:43 mike_c: BingoBoingo: can you wrap that in <pre></pre> ?

01:22:25 BingoBoingo: mike_c: It doesn't work with the footnotes tool like that. Simply returns the same result.

01:22:39 BingoBoingo: And April Fools, so puzzle

01:23:19 mike_c: hehe. you are full of puzzles lately.

01:24:45 BingoBoingo: mike_c: Well, why not?

01:25:05 mike_c: no reason. keep us on our toes.

01:27:15 BingoBoingo: At least I didn't try translating the thing to a LISP first

01:37:30 MisterE: haha: http://isecpartners.github.io/passwords/2014/03/31/smart-password-evaluator.html

01:37:57 MisterE: All ur pass are belong to iSec

01:37:57 asciilifeform: MisterE: reminiscent of the 'is my bank card stolen' service.

01:38:07 MisterE: :D

01:41:18 asciilifeform: for those who remember mp's essay about bezzle-dollars:

01:41:36 asciilifeform: apparently one of the things you can't get for these is: rental house in the wash. dc metro area.

01:42:01 asciilifeform: it is always one thing to read a philosophical bit, and another to taste it on one's sorry skin

01:43:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40216 @ 0.00094042 = 37.8199 BTC [+] {2}

01:43:29 asciilifeform: if only we had that 'rental starter' crap here.

01:45:14 *: asciilifeform will soon have finished 7th year in a 30 m^2 flat.

01:45:58 MisterE: I live in a box too

01:47:28 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, if moving to the midwest was an option for you...

01:47:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'd move to antarctica if there were work there.

01:48:06 BingoBoingo: And such is the problem

01:48:18 asciilifeform: hell, to mars.

01:51:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00583999 = 0.292 BTC [+] {3}

01:54:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.00584186 = 0.222 BTC [+] {2}

01:55:22 asciilifeform: not far off is the day when the black mold outweighs me, gram for gram.

01:56:12 BingoBoingo: Well, I had the great fortune of once living next to the bulding whose walkway collapsed first

01:56:40 asciilifeform: i do believe that my kitchen floor will collapse 'when', not 'if'

01:56:44 MisterE: LMAO @ MOPE PR banned

01:57:47 thestringpuller: old news

01:57:50 thestringpuller: check logs

01:57:52 thestringpuller: move on

01:58:28 MisterE: so a comment is not allowed being that the world and this chanel doesn't revolve around your time zone?

01:59:20 MisterE: I dont read bitcointalk unless directed to it

01:59:32 thestringpuller: what time zone are you in?

02:05:44 MisterE: +7

02:05:49 MisterE: Bangkok

02:07:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17895 @ 0.00094128 = 16.8442 BTC [+]

02:10:24 thestringpuller: whatever happened to goat?

02:11:05 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Now he wants Garr's head

02:11:38 thestringpuller: lolol whut?

02:12:20 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Now that Cog has become so far beyond saving, he finally got angry

02:13:01 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/kKgYXoH

02:13:02 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

02:13:07 nubbins`: ^ early draft of a poster we're working on

02:13:08 nubbins`: lel

02:13:33 benkay: embiggen sunburst

02:14:53 KRS-One: Vaca Cabeza.

02:15:28 KRS-One: If anyone spots a tsunami lemme know.

02:21:48 MisterE: yea been loking myself

02:21:54 MisterE: this is where it is headed

02:29:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00094128 = 5.177 BTC [+]

02:29:27 Mats_cd03: a tsunami is coming towards your home

02:29:53 Mats_cd03: created by local field disturbances created by...

02:29:57 Mats_cd03: your mother

02:31:50 MisterE: not possible, mother is not local

02:32:49 nubbins`: heh, a guy i sold a casascius coin to has decided he really can't afford it and is wondering if i'll buy it back from him

02:32:52 nubbins`: imagine

02:33:21 Mats_cd03: i distinctly recall saying you basically robbed the guy

02:33:28 Mats_cd03: so... surprise?

02:33:41 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i wonder if anyone would buy a casascius coin that i've touched, after what i said about them

02:33:45 MisterE: plot thickens...

02:34:09 nubbins`: Mats_cd03, i resent that!

02:34:15 nubbins`: nobody was basically robbed :0

02:34:30 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It might have extra numismatic value

02:34:33 asciilifeform: lol

02:35:31 nubbins`: asciilifeform: only way to be certain is to buy one and try to sell it ;p

02:36:16 nubbins`: "I've been reconsidering my finances and I'm not sure I am in a position to hold on to this collectors item"

02:38:25 nubbins`: i mean, i feel bad for the guy

02:38:34 nubbins`: but i'm not about to buy a coin off some random noob with no trust ;p

02:39:30 mike_c: those things are such a crapshoot. you have to trust the whole chain of people who have ever touched it.

02:41:26 mike_c: how's the market? has the premium over btc moved up or down?

02:41:46 joecool: on those coins? they hold a nice premium

02:42:02 mike_c: yeah, i'm wondering the trend. nubbins` has been dealing them for awhile

02:42:02 joecool: i sold mine at 50% premium months ago and i'm seeing em go for 100% over face now :-\

02:42:06 mike_c: wow

02:42:22 dexX7_: re: mpoe-pr ban ... was this an april fools joke? i don't see any sign of a ban

02:42:37 nubbins`: percentage over face isn't a great way to price them, it's better to think in terms of absolute value over face

02:42:54 nubbins`: mike_c: depends on the coins. brass ones in general pull smaller premiums

02:43:09 nubbins`: the silver 1btc coins fetch 2.1-2.3 these days

02:43:18 kakobrekla: O_O

02:43:21 Ken`: will mtgox yubikeys ever become a collector's item?

02:43:34 Ken`: got one here with logo

02:43:50 nubbins`: the last silver 0.5btc coin i sold (rare holo, mintage 45) went for 6btc

02:43:53 kakobrekla: 10$ in 10 years Ken` .

02:43:58 nubbins`: unfortunately kako already used the largest eyes possible

02:44:13 joecool: nubbins`: what are the 10BTC silvers goin for?

02:44:31 kakobrekla: also whats with the brass hate

02:44:34 nubbins`: joecool i've seen rubes offering upwards of 25btc, but this is a guaranteed loss.

02:44:43 kakobrekla: its 99% guaranteed brass

02:44:45 joecool: nubbins`: omg really?

02:44:50 nubbins`: i wouldn't pay a satoshi over 15

02:44:57 joecool: nubbins`: i sold mine for 15

02:45:26 nubbins`: kakobrekla: honestly i don't know.

02:45:35 nubbins`: the casascius market is on drugs

02:45:48 nubbins`: 2011 1btc with series-1 "error" holo: 3-5btc

02:45:53 joecool: it's like the miner market, OVERPAY FOR ANYTHING WITH BTC STAMP ON IT

02:46:14 nubbins`: 2011 1btc with series-2 holo (much more rare): 2btc

02:46:16 nubbins`: go figure

02:46:30 kakobrekla: should make a special btc logo featured turdtwister

02:46:31 nubbins`: 25btc coin: 35-40btc

02:46:39 nubbins`: because "less than 2x face"

02:46:52 mike_c: hah. nice.

02:46:57 nubbins`: so all the poor rubes go "ah, less than 2x face, great deal", thinking that's how coins are priced.

02:47:02 nubbins`: it's shocking

02:47:59 kakobrekla: how much are the empty ones?

02:48:11 nubbins`: depends, maybe a hundred bucks for a brass

02:48:19 kakobrekla: fucked.

02:48:21 nubbins`: empty 25s go for several hundred

02:48:28 joecool: crazy, mike's doin p.well for himself i guess

02:48:45 nubbins`: afaik he was independently wealthy before he started making coins

02:49:03 nubbins`: but yes, at the time he stopped, he no doubt had a massive pile of btc

02:49:18 nubbins`: i personally gave him something over 60btc

02:49:40 joecool: i was looking at the gox db leak, he moved coin out of there pretty quickly, i do not think he was one of the big losers in there

02:50:13 nubbins`: nah, he's smarter than that

02:50:22 MisterE: "numismatic value" lmao

02:51:28 nubbins`: MisterE: it's a real thing, imagine ;D

02:51:41 MisterE: lol I know :)

02:52:23 MisterE: I'd just like to buy the bullion without the numismatic part sir

02:52:41 MisterE: you can keep the extended warranty service too.

02:53:06 nubbins`: heh.

02:53:07 MisterE: self-sufficiency is its own reward :)

02:53:17 nubbins`: well, ya know... amagimetals.com, silvergoldbull.com, etc :D

02:53:30 MisterE: silvergoldbull haha

02:53:33 nubbins`: bullion is a nice hedge

02:53:55 nubbins`: ah hey, Square gives you a free card reader when you sign up for an account

02:53:56 nubbins`: neat

02:56:50 asciilifeform: i set the 'bozo bit' on 'square' when they caved in to the FUD and replaced their purely-analogue card reader with an elaborate crypto turd

02:57:04 asciilifeform: just so people couldn't use it as a generic magstripe reader.

02:57:23 nubbins`: too bad

02:57:39 MisterE: just what stores with a rack of 8 readers need, another one

02:57:55 asciilifeform: http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/square1.jpg?w=716

02:57:57 asciilifeform: (new)

02:58:02 joecool: asciilifeform: good to know, i need to dig around and see if i have any of the old style

02:58:09 MisterE: I'm so glad I hang out here and dont have to track all these scams by myself

02:59:05 asciilifeform: http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/square.jpg?w=470&h=136

02:59:07 asciilifeform: (old)

02:59:53 MisterE: Ahh these are for smartphones

02:59:55 nubbins`: wow, look at that.

03:00:03 nubbins`: MisterE yep, turn a tablet into a PoS

03:00:15 asciilifeform: amazing what people are willing to spend on inserting antifeatures.

03:00:15 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:00:31 nubbins`: that really is a crypto-turd

03:00:38 MisterE: pretty good side by side comparison, obviously the old model is just a magnetic head

03:00:44 nubbins`: yeah

03:01:02 MisterE: pay moar, for less functionality!

03:01:03 nubbins`: suppose you could make one out of an old tape recorder and a few lines of objective-c

03:01:09 asciilifeform: excuse was, if i recall, that scammers will use the reader to lift cc #s.

03:01:18 asciilifeform: as if these had any trouble buying chinese readers

03:01:29 asciilifeform: (these, and stacks of blank cards, sell on ebay every day)

03:01:35 MisterE: thats exactly what I was thinking when I saw it, old tape recorder

03:02:11 asciilifeform: alignment is critical

03:02:19 asciilifeform: most cards have multiple tracks.

03:02:20 MisterE: yea cloning is trivial and has been I don't buy it

03:03:17 asciilifeform: the more realistic explanation is that they didn't care to see people write magstripe stuff using their reader

03:03:46 asciilifeform: (original 'square' reader was usable by any machine that had a 3.5mm headphone jack)

03:04:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61789884 = 1.2358 BTC [+] {2}

03:08:53 nubbins`: nod

03:09:22 nubbins`: wellllll, still a tip-two ring-sleeve jack

03:09:32 nubbins`: tip-two-ring-sleeve

03:09:36 nubbins`: w/e, you know what i mean :D

03:09:59 nubbins`: (this is the same sort of jack that headphone+microphone combos use)

03:14:53 MisterE: or A/V/cables

03:15:00 MisterE: A/V cables*

03:15:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 58 @ 0.0039993 = 0.232 BTC [-] {4}

03:18:54 nubbins`: yep

03:20:20 asciilifeform: yeah - but the new turd craps out a blob rsa'd to square's public key.

03:20:25 asciilifeform: rather than plain stripe bits.

03:26:27 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/maged-permabanned-mpoe-pr-because-she-swore-shock.292615/page-2#post-5747430

03:26:28 ozbot: Maged permabanned MPOE-PR because she swore shock | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk

03:28:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00592698 = 0.1126 BTC [+] {2}

03:28:41 VanCleef: bitcointa.lk loads up really slow

03:36:01 MisterE: damn! http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Apr/14

03:38:33 Diablo-D3: lol

03:38:51 stompysteve: where in the world is carmen sandiego

03:38:56 stompysteve: i mean danny brewster

03:39:37 VanCleef: nobody knows

03:39:45 VanCleef: maybe he really is in a coma

03:40:22 stompysteve: doesnt make any sense

03:40:49 stompysteve: you would think someone would have maybe made like a half ass statement or something by now

03:41:50 MisterE: maybe the scammers disappeared him

03:43:28 stompysteve: mpex got him tied up

03:43:40 BingoBoingo: Who really knows if "Danny Brewster"==Danny Brewster.

03:44:16 stompysteve: what does he have a fake family now too lol

03:53:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0075 = 0.375 BTC [+]

03:53:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [-]

03:55:43 BingoBoingo: stompysteve: Who is to know that Neo Danny wasn't some orderly who stole coma Danny's identity

03:58:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61594729 BTC [+]

04:16:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23655 @ 0.00094095 = 22.2582 BTC [-] {2}

04:28:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31529 @ 0.00094622 = 29.8334 BTC [+]

04:43:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00094622 = 14.3352 BTC [+]

04:47:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.056 = 0.224 BTC [-]

05:45:26 benkay: hey

05:45:29 benkay: hey assettes

05:45:40 benkay: every two weeks

05:45:49 benkay: bitcoin derp central in southeast portland

05:45:50 benkay: this week

05:46:06 benkay: "why u no spend time and energy pumping crypto train its good for everyone"

05:46:08 benkay: "well"

05:46:10 benkay: "you see"

05:46:21 benkay: "i am more interested in checks landing in my mailbox."

05:46:41 benkay: "every bit of energy spent not making checks eventually arrive in my inbox is time wasted."

05:47:04 benkay: "but but but this twitter tweet douchebot!"

05:47:13 benkay: "pennies. from paupers. get out of my face."

05:52:37 Mats_cd03: im content to just collect dividends from mpex

05:53:10 benkay: its pretttty great

05:53:23 Mats_cd03: i figure if btc goes up in ten years or less i can retire to a beach in asia

05:53:32 benkay: don't think like that

05:53:34 benkay: never stop hustling

05:53:49 Mats_cd03: i reverse engineer firmware

05:54:08 Mats_cd03: i can do that on a beach while getting rimmed by a thai prostitute

05:55:08 random_cat: what is this derp central?

05:55:27 Mats_cd03: bitcoin meetup i bet

05:55:29 benkay: central location of derpage

05:55:36 benkay: zone

05:55:37 benkay: o'clock

05:55:38 *: random_cat scratches behind ear over benkay comments

05:56:30 benkay: you and me both, random_cat

05:57:19 random_cat: where is this derpage happening?

05:58:16 benkay: a bar

05:58:31 benkay: do you know the area, random_cat ?

05:58:38 random_cat: yes

05:58:48 benkay: oh holy shit

05:59:13 benkay: uh lucky lab

05:59:16 benkay: se

05:59:18 random_cat: oic

05:59:25 benkay: come out in two weeks!

05:59:39 benkay: ;;gettrust random_cat

05:59:39 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user random_cat: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=random_cat | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=random_cat | Rated since: Sat May 21 17:28:44 2011

05:59:41 random_cat: tuesdays? what time?

05:59:52 benkay: every other

05:59:55 benkay: 8p

06:00:00 benkay: hey tg2 you see that?

06:00:00 *: random_cat isn't a huge fan of lucky lab's beers

06:00:01 benkay: that's a rating

06:00:39 benkay: ya well it ain't about the beer

06:01:55 benkay: random_cat: pm

06:02:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00093712 = 31.0655 BTC [-] {4}

06:08:23 chetty: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100026946/monks-recant-bundesbank-opens-the-door-to-qe-blitz/

06:08:24 ozbot: Monks recant: Bundesbank opens the door to QE blitz – Telegraph Blogs

06:09:42 benkay: HAW

06:09:44 benkay: i love ambrose

06:11:16 benkay: funny how the telegraph line length clusters around 72

06:15:34 random_cat: i'd call it awesome

06:17:23 benkay: i think i'm going to rebel against my gui conditioning and agree with you

06:17:34 benkay: TAKE THAT DAD

06:20:56 Mats_cd03: holy fuck this irc client rules

06:21:28 Mats_cd03: embeds tweets and pastebins

06:21:41 Mats_cd03: and i just noticed it embedded a link from gist

06:21:53 Mats_cd03: code snippets o/

06:26:43 benkay: "In several cases my changes take the form of a Turing-complete program that dynamically modifies the upstream source code in several attempts until it passes tests. I’m not kidding."

06:30:07 benkay: (i think he's kidding)

06:33:11 Mats_cd03: id love to see code for that

06:34:00 Diablo-D3: hes not kidding

06:53:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18044 @ 0.00093631 = 16.8948 BTC [-]

07:09:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00093363 = 13.0241 BTC [-] {3}

07:34:14 MisterE: bitcoin-assets.com

07:34:19 MisterE: lol fail

07:41:30 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

07:41:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 477.25, vol: 17444.61766036 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 479.435, vol: 13599.58296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 477.1492, vol: 14700.48263507 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 488.01, vol: 43.6548417 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 464.734836, vol: 3681.68780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 488.96, vol: 22.76701776 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 489.198088, vol: 104.27305101 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

07:59:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29094 @ 0.00093362 = 27.1627 BTC [-]

08:08:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54179 @ 0.00093981 = 50.918 BTC [+] {3}

08:18:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 24 @ 0.056 = 1.344 BTC [-]

08:18:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 98 @ 0.0075 = 0.735 BTC [+]

08:52:27 peterl: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319 danny speaks finally

08:52:28 ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

08:52:30 Apocalyptic: .d

08:52:30 ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 626 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.0800% in 3d 16h 28m 16s

08:54:53 VanCleef: lol aweomsome now they are locking the thread

08:56:46 BingoBoingo: So... got scared, went fraud

08:57:37 antephialtic: ... and neo is out of money and probably fucked

08:57:45 antephialtic: Good News For Bitcoin (TM)

08:57:47 VanCleef: and hes quitting

08:58:30 peterl: I just started a new thread for people to continue the discussion. I doubt, however, that he will answer in it.

08:58:48 BingoBoingo: The thing is he seems to describe it as neo's money

08:59:33 peterl: I wonder if the line between his money and NEO's money was not clear enough?

09:00:19 BingoBoingo: Seems like it as his solution to Neo's lack of money is trying to take his equity in no money for someone else's money to acquire his worthless equity

09:02:57 VanCleef: i knew there was something wrong when i seen pictures of their office

09:03:00 VanCleef: big watse of money

09:06:48 antephialtic: well I guess bitcoin is really going to take off in cyprus now

09:08:20 VanCleef: shotgun some neobee office shairs

09:08:22 VanCleef: chairs

09:08:25 VanCleef: they look mint

09:18:26 BingoBoingo: This is the problem that happens when Facebook is allowed to IPO and a shitty Facebook game is allow to IPO soon after

09:21:13 VanCleef: dotcom bubble 2.0

09:23:06 VanCleef: but yeh i hope MP books a flight to russia soon

09:23:09 VanCleef: he will be safe there

09:23:25 BingoBoingo: MP's probably safe most places in the world.

09:23:44 VanCleef: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20

09:23:45 ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges

09:23:54 VanCleef: scary the amount of power usa still has :/

09:24:05 VanCleef: go to russia dood

09:29:55 antephialtic: why would anyone want to buy the equity of an insolvent company

09:30:09 antephialtic: he doesn't mention the actual debts of neo&bee

09:30:26 antephialtic: which I am sure are quite massive

09:30:47 VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year

09:30:51 antephialtic: were a white knight to save them, all the existing shareholders would get wiped out anyways

09:31:03 BingoBoingo: The thing read as though "I wanted to go insolvent on my schedule, but I deposited with people who went insolvent first"

09:31:24 chetty: the sky is falling, the sky is falling the sky is falling

09:32:15 antephialtic: i don't have any money in neo. its just annoying to see another implosion that makes bitcoin look stupid to the rest of the unenlightened population

09:32:55 BingoBoingo: Eh, it seems by his retelling he could only disappear a quarter of what inputs.io disappeared. Progress-ish

09:33:01 chetty: agreed, that and the derps inventing stuff about MP in trouble

09:33:05 cazalla: those commercials are prime candidates for new subtitles aka hitler finds out type style

09:33:22 VanCleef: lol

09:34:03 chetty: not enough actual drama, must invent some more !!!

09:34:43 BingoBoingo: Pirate disappeared a quarter million BTC, TradeFortress disappeared 4000, Danny disappeared 1200. Soon we will get down to a single BTC being a newsworthy heist

09:37:26 VanCleef: dont forget bitfunder/weex scam

09:38:46 BingoBoingo: http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/comments/2200w1/danny_has_broken_the_silence/cgi1862

09:39:02 BingoBoingo: VanCleef: Is that the thing neo bailed out for no damned reason?

09:40:25 cazalla: so lose 10% to cypriot banks, lose the remaining 90% to neo?

09:47:45 BingoBoingo: Well, just holding BTC oneself was an option

10:30:09 Apocalyptic: hum looks like havelock is offline

10:57:13 zacm: wonder what happened with bitfunder, still not been revealed

10:57:42 zacm: cazalla: ouch!!!

11:02:39 mircea_popescu: haha i got my hitler paintings today.

11:04:44 mircea_popescu: zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess << i wouldn't read too much into the derpage of a coupla tards tbh.

11:05:31 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 pretty cool!

11:06:08 Neil: Something I'd wanted to know for a long time; now I can produce this easily: http://pastebin.com/7QSb6ypA

11:06:19 Neil: Block 266381 was good for 110 trillion difficulty!

11:06:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1521 @ 0.00013758 = 0.2093 BTC [+] {3}

11:06:41 Neil: Also the genesis block was 2,536 times harder than necessary. Which is odd. It held the record for 1430 blocks.

11:06:56 mircea_popescu: tg2 the problem with your approach is that protocols are designed and implemented by they involved, not by the armchair generals. tis not up to you or whatever random derp on reddit to "draw up guidelines", there's no government of the people in bitcoin. there's government by bitcoin opf the people.

11:07:36 mircea_popescu: Neil pretty cool yeah, did you generate it ?

11:07:55 Neil: Yup

11:08:02 mircea_popescu: cool.

11:08:31 mircea_popescu: poor mike_c and his prime sarcasm falling on deaf ears :D

11:08:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3332 @ 0.00013799 = 0.4598 BTC [+] {4}

11:11:16 mircea_popescu: blurden who are you perhaps the more instructive question.

11:12:08 artifexd: ;;later tell Mats_cd03 What irc client are you using?

11:12:08 gribble: The operation succeeded.

11:15:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: it is always one thing to read a philosophical bit, and another to taste it on one's sorry skin << do tell ?

11:17:42 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: but i'm not about to buy a coin off some random noob with no trust ;p <<< ajaahaha the moment we've all been waioting for. nubsy baby, maybe buy it FOR ATC ?!?!?!?!

11:17:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00094379 = 11.0423 BTC [+]

11:18:28 mircea_popescu: Ken` actually they just might.

11:24:15 mircea_popescu: so did neobee finally issue that vaunted first quarterly statement that really shoulda been the third ?

11:25:50 mircea_popescu: VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year << not such a bad idea. http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/ only goes june 2011-dec 2012. there's all of 2013 to cover, plus a chunk of 2014

11:25:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18374 @ 0.00094596 = 17.3811 BTC [+] {3}

11:26:47 mircea_popescu: aand all caught up. that wasnt so very bad huh.

11:30:19 VanCleef: nice

11:30:31 VanCleef: must read

11:32:15 jurov: wasn't benkay doing it?

11:32:29 VanCleef: i only get till 28th of september 2012 mp

11:32:50 VanCleef: 8th of december sorry

11:33:04 bounce: ``Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility.'' -- this widely accepted in economists' circles?

11:34:02 mircea_popescu: bounce only state-sponsored circles.

11:34:08 mircea_popescu: it's kenseyanism

11:34:48 mircea_popescu: austrian school holds exactly the opposite to be true. back when the us-uk alliance consisted of reagan and thatcher, the exact opposite was widely held in... amusinglyt.... the same economist circles.

11:35:09 bounce: seems to me a bit of a mistaking the road for the horse

11:35:22 VanCleef: time to update it mp

11:35:47 mircea_popescu: kinda yeah.

11:36:03 VanCleef: might take a while heh

11:37:49 wywialm: mircea_popescu: isn't it socialism and not keynesianism? afaik keynesianism is "the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility" but only when there are aggregate demand defficiencies

11:38:08 VanCleef: ima make a lil list of the last 2 years anyway

11:38:19 MisterE: What do you do when you work at a scrapyard and someone brings in an unexploded WW2 bomb?

11:38:25 MisterE: Bust out the plasma cutter and cut it open of course... http://news.yahoo.com/bangkok-scrap-workers-killed-opening-suspected-ww2-bomb-102333123--finance.html

11:38:37 VanCleef: win

11:38:41 dexx: how comes i have the impression there are only very few successful bitcoin businesses?

11:38:52 VanCleef: few? that's too many

11:38:56 mircea_popescu: wywialm i fail to distinguish socialism and keynesianism myself.

11:38:56 VanCleef: maybe a couple

11:39:15 mircea_popescu: seems a distinction without a difference.

11:39:21 dexx: > they used a blow torch to try to cut open the bomb

11:39:22 dexx: lol

11:39:32 MisterE: yea, smart eh?

11:39:39 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/hitler-mp/

11:39:40 ozbot: Hitler MP pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

11:39:47 mircea_popescu: ;;eauth mircea_popescu

11:39:48 gribble: Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452

11:40:15 mircea_popescu: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:55114a79cafe0a548c8c138fea790f6468e25914906b2aa5e2198e6e

11:40:16 gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452

11:40:32 wywialm: well, socialism sometimes vs socialism always is a difference even in principle and not only in quantity - the market is still the default in keynesianism

11:40:34 mircea_popescu: ;;rate DrahogErusiel 1 Artwork delivered.

11:40:35 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user DrahogErusiel has been recorded.

11:40:45 mircea_popescu: ;;rate SaltySpitoon 1 Escrow agent

11:40:47 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user SaltySpitoon has been recorded.

11:41:01 dexx: hehe

11:41:03 mircea_popescu: btw, someone with a forum account drop a line to salty / the artist

11:41:10 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/portraits-commissions-and-original-paintings-by-maureen-gubia.204435/page-2#post-4486969

11:41:13 ozbot: portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk

11:41:14 mircea_popescu: or post in thread or something

11:41:43 mircea_popescu: wywialm arguably. just like rape always and rape sometimes are ostensibly a difference in principle and not only in quantity.

11:41:57 mircea_popescu: like if you keep a girl tied to a post in your basement and only rape her when she's not... willing, i guess you'd call it ?

11:42:26 turbo_ac100: Does google rank your site worse if I dont have the relevant TLD and do geotargeting only with webmaster tools?

11:42:46 turbo_ac100: *yours mine - SOME site.

11:43:04 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 i don't think it makes much difference.

11:43:50 turbo_ac100: grounded on what?

11:44:12 mircea_popescu: well, is .com the relevant tld for fraudsters ?

11:44:20 mircea_popescu: was .us/fraudsters/ relevant ?

11:44:25 mircea_popescu: i saw exactly 0 difference in switching.

11:45:09 wywialm: mircea_popescu: great comparison - though, the keynesian would maintain that the girl's always willing, only sometimes too shy to ask

11:45:22 mircea_popescu: right right

11:45:32 mircea_popescu: we don't buy that in court, so why would we buy it otherwise.

11:45:46 wywialm: i'm not selling keynesianism

11:46:01 mircea_popescu: merely the presence of "government contracts" in the us renders entire sectors state controlled/planned

11:46:19 mircea_popescu: and for that matter they are well aware of this, hence the entire "conquer education by federal grant" programme past 20 years

11:46:30 mircea_popescu: wywialm i know you aren't, but stating it for teh record.

11:48:52 wywialm: you're very right on the govt contracts stuff, but i suppose the regulatory burden is much heavier for the economy than plain old fiscal intervention

11:49:26 mircea_popescu: the state has absolutely no business in economy at all.

11:49:41 mircea_popescu: this entire "oh but we know better" bs is simply mindboggling.

11:50:04 wywialm: true as well

11:50:39 mircea_popescu: anyway, as technology frees more and more time, people can't resist the temptation to try and feel it with a delusion that they actually matter.

11:51:09 mircea_popescu: which is teh deep reason the western world slid into socialism past century or so.

11:51:26 mircea_popescu: s/try and feel it/try and fill it/

11:51:29 wywialm: but still - i'd opt for a government scandinavian style that is just fiscally opressive but much less tries to mix with the rules

11:51:45 bounce: well, you know. there's things that look like economics but are more important in other respects, and so the state might well step in and run the show.

11:51:54 mircea_popescu: til neobee had IT'S OWN REDDIT ?! http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/

11:52:02 bounce: though clearly enough often enough the government has no clue either way and everyone suffers

11:52:03 mircea_popescu: this would be the first time reddit scammed teh btc public then ?

11:52:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0564 = 0.1692 BTC [+]

11:52:27 mircea_popescu: wywialm i wouldn't.

11:52:28 wywialm: bounce, any examples?

11:52:40 mircea_popescu: yeah, examples ?

11:53:49 bounce: say, public transport. first you end up with lots of PT companies doing their thing and a right jumble it is. then the state steps in and puts it all under one umbrella. N years later it gets a bug up the old bum about privatisation and you end up with lots of little companies again... and worse service to higher cost.

11:53:52 mircea_popescu: omfg, this is beyond cute. the derps on tardstalk actually tried to like... fud s.mpoe ?!

11:53:56 mircea_popescu: o god.

11:54:09 mircea_popescu: nubbins`s sides! etc!

11:55:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.04349965 = 0.261 BTC [-] {4}

11:55:22 mircea_popescu: bounce that's actually a great example.

11:55:48 bounce: or public health. you could provide good basic service to the entire population at a reasonable price (hidden in the tax bill), but if it has to be "market driven" you're certainly not going to get that. and that when it's to everyone's benefit that the workforce is healthy.

11:55:57 mircea_popescu: public transportation is perhaps the best way to drive that entire argument.

11:56:11 VanCleef: i think SatoshiIsland needs some sort of governence but it should be like a company where you hire people for the positions via very complicated hard test, previous background and experiences and these positions should be interchangable every year and performance based

11:56:28 VanCleef: and interviews

11:56:54 mircea_popescu: bounce the only way i see this to be approachable is the medieval method (still used in romania for emergency medicine say) : you hire a boss. he does whatever he wants.

11:57:30 mircea_popescu: this is pretty much how the guilds ran things, back when european economy actually worked. it's how romania runs emergency medicine, thge guy's name is raed arafat.

11:58:24 mircea_popescu: (for the exotically curious : parliament passed a law, guy went on tv to say the law fucking sucks, president called in to say well why didn't you tell me! let's iron it out!". it was a sight, the whole thing. )

11:58:53 wywialm: bounce: i can't see any economic justification for things turning that way. The evolution of PT in Poland is a direct proof to the contrary - a few efficient contractors in the bigger cities and between them, successfully coping with ever-increasing regulation

11:59:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SMG] 2980 @ 0.000081 = 0.2414 BTC [-] {11}

12:01:02 bounce: heh. guilds have the same problem as, well, anything else that gets power. it tends to become more important to hold onto power (by whichever means) which eventually might come at the cost of the thing they exist for

12:01:18 mircea_popescu: wywialm you familiar with the dumping issue ?

12:01:50 bounce: so I'll buy that as a vivid example of getting the right knowledge at the right place, but don't buy the form as a solve-all.

12:02:10 mircea_popescu: bounce there's no solve all, outside of poincarre's.

12:02:12 wywialm: and regarding emergency medicine: i agree with mircea_popescu, adding that the most probable explanation for this are large economies of scale and perhaps public good as well

12:03:13 bounce: basic healt care at any rate. the frivolous stuff, less so. and there's always the risk of glossing over the rare but expensive medical cases

12:03:21 bounce: s/lt/&h/

12:03:41 wywialm: at least partially, and as far as i managed to research it, i believe it's a non-issue, perhaps you could point to something convincing me to believe otherwise?

12:04:27 mircea_popescu: wywialm let me formalise it for the sake of public discussion.

12:05:00 mircea_popescu: admitting for the sake of argument that competition happens on measurable parameters of defined products, all businesses will normally compete on operational efficiency

12:05:14 mircea_popescu: whoever manages to produce x as defined cheapest wins most of the market.

12:05:49 mircea_popescu: however, if dumping is allowed, then company Y could sell product X for 0. inasmuch as none of its competitors have more money in the bank, they would necessarily go out of business.

12:05:57 mircea_popescu: as a de facto monopoly, Y can now charge infinity for X.

12:06:09 mircea_popescu: this will drive new competitors in the market, of crouse, but the system has two major problems :

12:06:27 mircea_popescu: one is that a competition on operational efficiency has been transformed in a simple financial competition of "who can support dumping longer"

12:06:39 mircea_popescu: and moreover, the entire point of the economy is to close the zero-infinity price window as soon as possible.

12:06:41 wywialm: well, it's very conditional of market organisation - barriers to entry for example

12:06:42 mircea_popescu: this goes against that.

12:07:00 mircea_popescu: yes, but as a model, this is the economical reason you were asking for earlier.

12:07:12 mircea_popescu: there does in fact exist *an* economical reason for things to play out that way.

12:07:28 mircea_popescu: not necessarily strong enough for it to happen too often, or even at all. but factually, it does exist.

12:07:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94778 @ 0.00094343 = 89.4164 BTC [-] {2}

12:08:31 wywialm: as a theoretical possiblity - i agree. but empirically, i have never seen it done

12:08:36 mircea_popescu: i have.

12:09:05 mircea_popescu: it's how supermarkets work, fundamentally, all across the world. they drive out small shops in phase 1, with low prices

12:09:17 mircea_popescu: they take advantage of the captive market they created, afterwards.

12:09:32 bounce: and regularly attack each other with the same trick afterward

12:09:34 mircea_popescu: phase 1 lasts 3-5 years, and is actually evaluated as part of the financing of a new development.

12:09:52 bounce: it's not quite 0..inf but it does happen all the time

12:09:57 wywialm: have a look at education, for example - govt is permanently dumping the sector, there are no expectations to the reversal of the course and yet it doesn't manage to win the whole market

12:10:14 mircea_popescu: this is why the us sucks, basically. it, not having ancient microstructure in place, turned into a sprawl hellhole

12:10:27 mircea_popescu: european style towns where commercial and residential zones are not separated are rare in the us

12:11:02 mircea_popescu: wywialm it is not dumping the whole sector. even if mcdonald sold for free i wouldn't patronise them. i stll eat at good restaurants.

12:11:24 mircea_popescu: in fact, mcdonalss DOES sell for free in most of the us, it does more business as a proxy for usg welfare than anything else.

12:11:29 mircea_popescu: same for all the ff chains.

12:13:26 wywialm: but the product differentiation is a good defense against dumping, as it can work only in very simple markets, food and education is not one of them

12:14:29 mircea_popescu: depends.

12:14:39 mircea_popescu: we're dumping the shit out of high-end btc education in this chan, for instance.

12:14:43 wywialm: and i believe the 0..inf is never an option, the dumping winners can charge only a monopoly rent afterwards, having erected (rather weak) barriers to entry

12:14:49 mircea_popescu: it's part of my evil strategy of preventing the usg from ever mattering in this space.

12:15:45 wywialm: in a well-developed economy capital requrements are much less significant barrier, for example

12:15:51 mircea_popescu: maybe.

12:16:04 bounce: you're saying the us gov't *cannot possibly* learn?

12:16:08 mircea_popescu: it does get complicated real quick just as soon as one tries to take the theoretical model to the actual market

12:16:13 mircea_popescu: which is why economy is such metaphysics.

12:16:33 mircea_popescu: bounce it can not possibly afford to pay people that can outcompete us in teaching.

12:16:57 bounce: economists do tend to get a bit hung up on solutions without really getting down to the structure of the underlying drivers

12:17:01 mircea_popescu: which brings in an interesting side point : recently the us propaganda press ran a story comparing military spending, showing the us as the sum of europe and other states.

12:17:16 mircea_popescu: the quietly glossed over point being, of course, that a dollar of usg spending does not buy it a dollar of rl value.

12:17:28 mircea_popescu: i buy at a discount, often significant. they buy at a premium, always significant.

12:17:51 mircea_popescu: this and other imbalances make it so that the usg can not actually afford to compete in this particular market.

12:18:07 bounce: governments tend to do that. but how does the premium between us and eu gov'ts compare?

12:18:45 wywialm: thats funny that govt always points to costs and expenditures as something inherently positive

12:19:01 bounce: (at least what little I've seen of economists... let's see if I still have that impression in a year or so, say)

12:19:33 bounce: well, aren't they the drivers of the economy? so money raked in and tossed out is driving the economy, surely?

12:20:24 wywialm: hope we'll continue this fascinating discussion sometime later, i'll be going now

12:20:27 mircea_popescu: wywialm indeed. very funny.

12:20:56 mircea_popescu: bounce so they propose. like you know, the plowing fly proposes its exertions drive the ox.

12:20:58 wywialm: bye

12:21:21 mircea_popescu: later.

12:22:50 bounce: it's a bit dishonest, really. like the nth level manager proclaiming he did all the work. much rather he'd just admit others did the work, he just make the work effective. which is nothing to sneeze at if done well.

12:23:09 bounce: s/make/helped &/

12:39:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 18 @ 0.01400945 = 0.2522 BTC [-] {5}

12:46:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00094386 = 15.1018 BTC [+]

12:47:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 118 @ 0.00088447 = 0.1044 BTC [+] {3}

13:07:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00094958 = 20.321 BTC [+]

13:15:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.57975513 = 3.4785 BTC [-] {5}

13:16:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.57228777 = 14.8795 BTC [-] {7}

13:19:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00571686 = 1.1434 BTC [-] {5}

13:23:59 Guest17831: http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-04-02/

13:24:00 ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

13:25:01 Guest17831: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553818.0

13:25:03 ozbot: My new TREZOR

13:26:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 340 @ 0.00088646 = 0.3014 BTC [+] {5}

13:28:29 Namworld: That comic looks spot on.

13:32:10 MisterE: MS is still dumping Xbox afaik

13:32:19 MisterE: sold at a loss for years

13:33:51 chetty: mircea_popescu, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20// when are getting a medal from the foundation for taking the heat?

13:34:29 mircea_popescu: i think they only have medals perpared for the surprisingly-arrested

13:34:43 mircea_popescu: nothing designed for the surprisingly-not-arrested

13:34:45 Guest17831: Danny speaks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

13:35:33 Guest17831: one thing i dont get, is why he'd be stepping down for death threats, before anyone was worried about the rumors

13:35:36 Guest17831: doesnt quite add up

13:35:56 mircea_popescu: o look at that, scott adams trying to kaching on things that are happening but he can't be bothered to understand

13:35:59 mircea_popescu: how very hot topic of him.

13:36:06 chetty: sure it does, 2+2=5, no?

13:36:26 mircea_popescu: Guest15829 classical scammer talk. "the scam would have been fine if it weren't for the evil interlopers fud"

13:37:34 Guest17831: also, he says he covered for the locked coins in BF/Gox

13:37:45 Guest17831: but then says if he had them there would be enough money

13:37:50 Guest17831: :?

13:38:26 Guest17831: and wraps up it up in a neat little bow by saying he wants to sell his stake

13:38:28 mircea_popescu: it's very simple : "if you people were nice i'd have paid for this out of pocket but because you were mean i am not so neeneer"

13:38:39 mircea_popescu: just about at the conceptual level of the average bitcointard.

13:39:15 Guest17831: he should just pass his stake to Neo, it has no value with all that debt anyway

13:39:30 mircea_popescu: obviously "what's best for his fambly" is trying to make a split anyway.

13:39:54 mircea_popescu: hardly teh point. i dunno why all these scammor dudes imagine that's an argument. yes dude, if we wanted to feed your fambly we'd have just donated you the btc.

13:40:12 mircea_popescu: next time when you're out to do "what's best for your fambly" go ask for donations. ceos do what's best for their shareholders.

13:41:14 Guest17831: i didnt verify my nick now that i set enforce on :(

13:41:18 Guest17831: how long must i wait!

13:41:31 Namworld: April 1, nice date for such a topic, chetty.

13:42:29 mircea_popescu: just say release

13:42:45 mircea_popescu: /msg NickServ release nick

13:43:46 Namworld: Herp has a rating agency? He forgot derp in the title for Herp Derp Rating Agency

13:43:47 ThickAsThieves: thx!

13:44:15 mircea_popescu: wb

13:45:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.5710002 = 2.284 BTC [-]

13:45:58 mircea_popescu: wait. hadn't danny claimed that they had lost nothing on mtgox

13:46:02 mircea_popescu: "because the signs were there" ?

13:46:10 mircea_popescu: way to prove oneself a liar jeez.

13:46:38 mircea_popescu: i mean stupid is one thing. hard to hide, already well known, no big deal. but a liar is a different story.

13:47:41 ThickAsThieves: well he manages to say it both ways in this post

13:47:49 ThickAsThieves: that any losses were personal

13:47:51 VanCleef: lol

13:47:56 VanCleef: another bitcoin classic diaster

13:48:03 ThickAsThieves: but if he had the coins lost everything wouold be ok

13:48:16 ThickAsThieves: did he cover the losses but not cover them?

13:48:18 mircea_popescu: that's besides the point.

13:48:23 VanCleef: i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday

13:48:28 mircea_popescu: two weeks ago he claimed no funds were lost in gox. today he claims funds were lost in gox.

13:48:32 mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the end of hte line.

13:49:03 ThickAsThieves: sigh

13:50:05 VanCleef: i heard he doesn't even have a daughter

13:50:09 Mats_cd03: so much for limited liability

13:50:31 ThickAsThieves: he has a daughter

13:51:08 chetty: VanCleef, i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday // at least you know you will be cheated, in btc space its still an open question

13:51:15 mircea_popescu: lol

13:52:19 ThickAsThieves: if it werent for the handful of people not cheating, btc would be much easier to read

13:52:32 ThickAsThieves: i blame mp!

13:52:47 ThickAsThieves: youre what makes scamming possibru

13:53:56 VanCleef: at least wallstreet and banks take off your pants first before fucking you in the ass, bitcoiners make you wear a pair of jeans first

13:54:43 VanCleef: just a bunch of cowards hiding behind their computers

13:56:53 ThickAsThieves: wow even TradeFortress posted in a Neo thread

13:57:06 ThickAsThieves: odd

13:58:53 mircea_popescu: i should intradite myself.

13:59:41 VanCleef: i hope tf got fucked over

13:59:57 ThickAsThieves: well he aint in jail, soooo

14:00:06 VanCleef: like the jizz sock that he is

14:00:17 Mats_cd03: ;;tell artifexd irccloud

14:02:18 Mats_cd03: ;;later tell artifexd irccloud

14:02:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:02:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00094652 = 12.0681 BTC [-]

14:04:26 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/7f9ed98dbff9c7ccce7056a9b53dad68/tumblr_mj8r2tO4ZR1s7eb1eo1_500.jpg

14:04:31 mircea_popescu: brunettes make the best blondes.

14:07:15 Mats_cd03: i dont discriminate based on hair color

14:07:37 Mats_cd03: all boobies are legal in my jurisdiction

14:08:36 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitbet-march-2014-statement/

14:08:37 ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

14:08:46 mircea_popescu: the hopefully final-final restatement of that thing jesus.

14:12:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3555 @ 0.00012411 = 0.4412 BTC [-] {11}

14:12:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17248 @ 0.00094719 = 16.3371 BTC [+] {2}

14:15:49 pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6033647#msg6033647

14:15:51 ozbot: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)

14:18:39 chetty: "but if it weren't for the trolls it appears that it could have still managed."

14:20:32 mircea_popescu: well at least sa is having fun.

14:20:35 ThickAsThieves: "MP should buy Neo and Bee and be the next CEO."

14:21:14 ThickAsThieves: so backwards, this buying of the company concept

14:21:30 pankkake: kakobrekla was also nominated as Cognitive new CEO

14:21:51 mircea_popescu: so basically "mp is the only solvent entity in bitcoin finance we would like us to spend his money just as we whine about how mean and evil he is" ?

14:21:58 mircea_popescu: sounds a whole fucking lot like socialism to me.

14:22:19 mircea_popescu: congrats, western world, this is what you've built.

14:22:29 mircea_popescu: now go beat up your children and send them naked i nthe street to earn a living

14:22:32 mircea_popescu: it'll be for their own good.

14:22:48 ThickAsThieves: it's like multi-layered thought is no longer possible

14:22:54 ThickAsThieves: just one level

14:23:12 ThickAsThieves: the lizards are taking over!

14:23:47 chetty: ThickAsThieves, nah that happened a long time ago

14:23:54 mircea_popescu: isn't bitcoin great tho ? it empowers me to literaly urinate all over their faces.

14:24:11 mircea_popescu: were it not for bitcoin, i'm sure some elected official or other would have thought this is "prudent".

14:24:45 ThickAsThieves: to be honest i still get shaken that bitcoin just wont work because humans

14:25:07 mircea_popescu: it'll work just fine.

14:25:19 mircea_popescu: those humans will just make very fine human skin lampshades is all.

14:25:45 mircea_popescu: it was always about the salvation of the worthy, never about the salvation of the flock as a whole.

14:26:04 ThickAsThieves: so many of them, so few of us

14:26:12 ThickAsThieves: i hope yer right though

14:26:24 ThickAsThieves: odds are in your favor

14:26:26 ThickAsThieves: that's for sure

14:26:32 mircea_popescu: well technically there are more chickens too.

14:26:47 ThickAsThieves: indeed indeed

14:26:55 ThickAsThieves: one more thing to worry about, thanks!

14:26:57 mircea_popescu: The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000

14:27:32 mircea_popescu: (amusingly, bangladesh and nigeria are in the top 15)

14:28:17 VanCleef: fuck sake securities thread is mostly made up of neobee and activemining threads

14:28:54 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if this forum investor IPO thing is over now

14:29:00 ThickAsThieves: to be clear,

14:29:01 mircea_popescu: just like in the old glbse blowup days lol

14:29:08 ThickAsThieves: i do think scams will still come around

14:29:14 ThickAsThieves: but the audience is gone

14:29:30 ThickAsThieves: no room for notable ones

14:29:45 ThickAsThieves: the forum is like 5 guys with 500 accounts

14:29:49 ThickAsThieves: and .5 bitcoin

14:29:51 VanCleef: lol

14:29:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067 = 0.201 BTC [+]

14:29:57 VanCleef: probably hey

14:30:36 jborkl: mircea_popescu> The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000 < I wonder how many people taxpayers employed to count all the chickens?

14:30:45 jborkl: :)

14:30:57 VanCleef: lets face it bitcoin is only good for scamming

14:31:06 VanCleef: hope the price goes to 0

14:31:21 ThickAsThieves: vancleef what i'm saying is, how much more scamming can there really be

14:31:29 ThickAsThieves: Wall Streets turn i guess

14:31:33 mircea_popescu: jborkl well most of this is farmed, you know ? they're reported anyway, for various regulatory purposes

14:31:42 VanCleef: wallstreet is much safe than bitcoiners

14:31:50 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves we said (or moreover, hoped) exactly the same 3-4 times already.

14:31:53 jborkl: yeah I know

14:32:01 VanCleef: they'll always be scams and suckers

14:32:01 mircea_popescu: the collection of dr foreskins, ie, pompous if clueless nobodies, is endless.

14:32:09 mircea_popescu: hence the story of pointless and witless.

14:32:11 CheckDavid: Why is gold more popular than platinum in finance?

14:32:13 VanCleef: thanks to this bitcoin shit, scamming has become alot easier

14:32:15 ThickAsThieves: i guess the next rallies will bring the new blood

14:32:26 ThickAsThieves: the menstrual cycle of money

14:32:34 mircea_popescu: exactly. the forum had been negligible btc anyway, for a long time now.

14:32:39 VanCleef: yeh the rally scam

14:32:50 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid "more popular" ?

14:32:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1477 @ 0.00012185 = 0.18 BTC [-] {6}

14:32:57 jborkl: but that means somedud is out there chocking his chicken 16 billion times to make nuggets

14:33:26 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: lack of a better term :(

14:33:39 mircea_popescu: jborkl actually it's mostly automatred now. most chickens in the world touch a human inside the mouth for the first time in their... existence.

14:33:48 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid but what were you trying to say

14:33:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5831 @ 0.00011783 = 0.6871 BTC [-] {11}

14:34:30 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: for example. I rarely see platinum as an instrument on brokers. But gold is very common

14:34:52 CheckDavid: Gold is always mentioned historically as a store of value and currency

14:34:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 957 @ 0.00011196 = 0.1071 BTC [-] {5}

14:35:00 chetty: I dont think bitcoin has more scams that other things, its just more visible, to us

14:35:05 VanCleef: man i'm so sick of scams, i try and do the right thing and not be scammy and support this bitcoin shit but its just full of fucking animals

14:35:29 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid are you trying to ask why isn't platinum a monetary metal ?

14:35:54 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: maybe. Let's put it that way. I m just looking for some perspective

14:36:18 VanCleef: from now on whenver a mainstrea person asks me about bitcoin i'm just going to tell them to stay away from it because its all just bullshit and lies and a pyramid scheme and full of pos scammers

14:36:25 VanCleef: fuck you satoshi

14:36:30 mircea_popescu: because gold is, and there can only be one.

14:36:51 mircea_popescu: VanCleef who was going to ask you ?

14:37:19 VanCleef: i get asked about it from mom and pop investors

14:38:11 VanCleef: i didn't even invest in neobee but just so sick and tired of all the scams all the time

14:38:15 VanCleef: fucking animals

14:38:26 mircea_popescu: so you didn't invest,w hat do you care.

14:38:38 mircea_popescu: and what's some random dork, long exposed anyway, have to do with bitcoin

14:38:40 VanCleef: the whole bitcoin industry

14:38:48 mike_c: just tell them to stay away from havelock, it's not hard.

14:38:53 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: what about platinum vs silver?

14:38:59 VanCleef: havelock will shut down this year

14:39:28 VanCleef: i want to work at a government agency and bring bitcoin down

14:39:32 VanCleef: sick of it

14:39:33 mike_c: insert money into mouth :) http://bitbet.us/bet/617/and-then-there-was-one/

14:39:38 mircea_popescu: probably too expensive per ounce

14:40:04 CheckDavid: So it's a matter of volume mircea_popescu ?

14:40:32 mircea_popescu: silver is appealing to poor people in the manner ltc is appealing to kids with gpus

14:40:42 CheckDavid: I see

14:40:43 mircea_popescu: platinum does not share that trait.

14:40:43 mike_c: while i'm shilling bitbet, these are outrageously good odds on 'yes'. http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/

14:41:20 CheckDavid: And maybe it's not ' beautiful' as good

14:41:22 pankkake: so, when will there be a gold future on mpex? will it be called pmex? :)

14:41:23 CheckDavid: *gold

14:41:24 mircea_popescu: weren't all the good teams in the west ?

14:41:39 mike_c: except miami heat and indiana pacers

14:41:40 mircea_popescu: pankkake just as soon as someone with an actual gold business grows some balls.

14:41:53 mircea_popescu: indiana pacers is now a good team !?

14:41:54 mircea_popescu: wow.

14:42:07 mircea_popescu: (i last followed nba cca 1993, cause i was playing some pretty cool simulator for the pc.

14:42:13 mircea_popescu: it had byrd and johnson etc)

14:44:24 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/37378da0d39c775f54ab0d2276aade5e/tumblr_mkz6zdxz6W1reurnmo1_1280.jpg

14:47:49 ThickAsThieves: http://www.eatliver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/t1.jpg

14:47:58 pankkake: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Crocker%27s_rules

14:47:58 ozbot: Crocker's rules - Lesswrongwiki

14:48:00 nubbins`: mircea_popescu i can ask him if he'd accept ATC... what's 6BTC worth of ATC these days, anyway?

14:48:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094554 = 16.1687 BTC [-]

14:48:19 mircea_popescu: like 100 satoshi per atc afaik ?

14:48:27 mircea_popescu: but i dun recall wha we're discussing here

14:48:33 nubbins`: also, i got this weird twinge in my sides at 11:54, strange

14:48:48 nubbins`: me rebuying a casascius coin

14:48:48 mircea_popescu: lol

14:48:52 mircea_popescu: o o hehe

14:49:00 nubbins`: "hello sir plz to rebuy"

14:49:14 pankkake: 6BTC is probably the whole ATC market cap!

14:49:27 mircea_popescu: just a bout.

14:49:52 ThickAsThieves: nonsense, i'll sell 10% of my ATC for 6btc

14:52:07 nubbins`: well, i tell ya what. there's this guy, see, and he wants to sell a coin

14:52:32 nubbins`: altho TBF if he's realized he just blew too big of a wad and wants $$ back, i think ATC will be a bit of a hard sell

14:53:03 nubbins`: http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/50-for-50-fine-silver-coin-polar-bear-2014-prod1930018#.Uzwjg61dVro

14:53:04 ozbot: $50 for $50 Fine Silver Coin - Polar Bear (2014)

14:53:25 nubbins`: i really like these "face for face" silver coins

14:54:23 chetty: http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

14:54:24 ozbot: Study: Vegetarians Less Healthy, Lower Quality Of Life Than Meat-Eaters « CBS Atlanta

14:55:34 nubbins`: ahahah lel @ portrait mp

14:57:24 nubbins`: http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/200000/10000/7000/100/217164/217164.strip.gif

14:57:52 Namworld: I'm not sure why you're so pissed VanCleef... Bitcoin acts like cash but digital. hard to get back, no reversal mechanism.

14:58:28 ThickAsThieves: chetty read the paper

14:58:40 Namworld: People borrowing/wanting cash for their business/family/whatever. Even friends/family often. You then have to run after the money/never see it again.

14:58:42 ThickAsThieves: the study represents about 31 vegetarians

14:59:09 pankkake: so the study doesn't even even try to separate other factors (i.e. vegetarians being more physically active and health conscious, while non vegetarians includes mcdonalds eating couch potatoes)

14:59:22 Namworld: The issue is people fail to realize Bitcoin isn't like banks, it's like cash for the digital space.

14:59:34 ThickAsThieves: it also doesnt separate whether those vegetarians became such to help with said health problems

15:00:07 mike_c: ;;create bitbet "The dilbert comic from April 2nd will be posted in b-a more than 10 times"

15:00:09 ThickAsThieves: for example i'm pretty sure going whole food vegan reduces allergies

15:00:12 ThickAsThieves: not adds them

15:00:34 nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

15:00:36 ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

15:00:54 Namworld: Sending Bitcoins to Neobee is like investing cash in the guy screaming on the street corner he's starting a bank. He start by buying pamphlets and distributing them for advertising the business, hyping and taking further cash in.

15:01:46 Namworld: Most of the time, the appearance of being professional, having offices and all is pure artifice and money wasting.

15:03:11 Namworld: The forum is like the street, don't invest lots of cash with anyone you meet with good sounding claims.

15:03:43 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i thought it wasn't that bad rly.

15:03:57 Namworld: Scams aside, if you're not doing any kind of lending/investing, BTC can be very secure and works very well in the digital space for wealth transfer.

15:04:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves dun hate jus' because your life quality is lower :D

15:04:45 ThickAsThieves: well how would i know anyway

15:04:47 ThickAsThieves: hehe

15:04:51 ThickAsThieves: my life is my life

15:05:01 mircea_popescu: damaged lifegoods

15:05:18 chetty: typical of whats being put out as 'science' these days actually

15:06:24 pankkake: Namworld: reminds me of Shooting Fish

15:06:35 Namworld: ?

15:06:45 mircea_popescu: on the let's lulz @wikipedia angle : article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mircea_Popescu&action=history 12kb, untouched since last month.

15:06:55 pankkake: a movie about scammers; they get investors but everything is faked

15:07:05 mircea_popescu: article about how there shouldn't be an article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mircea_Popescu&action=history 19kb, updated daily.

15:07:18 chetty: ThickAsThieves, I actually did 5ish years as vegetarian, it was fine health wise

15:07:19 mircea_popescu: almsot as good trollage as the forum on display.

15:07:46 mircea_popescu: pankkake wasn't that wall street ?

15:07:48 mircea_popescu: (1980s film)

15:07:56 VanCleef: sorry namworld bit emotional

15:08:02 pankkake: it's a british movie

15:08:06 pankkake: haven't seen wall street

15:08:16 mircea_popescu: no wait not the 80s one

15:08:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.5715001 = 4.572 BTC [+] {2}

15:08:32 VanCleef: boiler room is a good movie

15:09:20 mircea_popescu: yeah that one!

15:09:23 mircea_popescu: wd cleefsy.

15:10:58 nubbins`: hmm i think my homo zebra needs a cigarette

15:11:10 mircea_popescu: pipe ?

15:11:16 mircea_popescu: long cigholder ?

15:11:18 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/kKgYXoH

15:11:19 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

15:11:31 nubbins`: just a plain ol' cig

15:11:34 nubbins`: a dart, if you will

15:11:52 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Cigarette_holder.png

15:11:54 mircea_popescu: that. srsly.

15:11:59 mircea_popescu: he's so working class it bleeds.

15:12:11 nubbins`: ah, a hepburn/thompson

15:14:41 nubbins`: so the power button on my cellular telephone has been working only intermittently these past weeks

15:14:47 Namworld: I got hit hard when I joined the forum. Didn't expect what I stumbled upon. It seems everyone are connected with sock puppets. Mostly artifices.

15:14:48 nubbins`: on the bright side, a replacement part is only $25

15:14:59 nubbins`: on the dim side, it requires a complete dismantling of the phone

15:15:27 Mats_cd03: reminds me of an opium pipe

15:15:39 Mats_cd03: but, you know, small.

15:15:45 Namworld: Should have been more careful. Kind of expected "high risk", should have expected "ludicrous risk".

15:19:40 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canadian-brad-katsuyama-in-spotlight-over-rigged-markets-allegation-1.2594639

15:19:42 ozbot: Canadian Brad Katsuyama in spotlight over 'rigged' markets allegation - Business - CBC News

15:20:14 Namworld: Speaking of life quality, by all estimates, I won't be lacking funds in the future. But as long as that's not a reality and is just on paper, my living standards are pretty low. Well according to local standards anyway.

15:20:32 Namworld: I could probably live better on much less if I moved to another country.

15:21:31 nubbins`: Namworld this is generally true of anyone living in a "first world" country

15:21:52 nubbins`: doubly so if you're in a "first world neighbourhood" of said country

15:22:32 Namworld: I'm in a poorer area of the city, but far from the poorest.

15:23:19 nubbins`: due to the wonders of gradual gentrification, there are very few "poor areas" in my city larger than a block or so

15:23:39 nubbins`: generally it's a mix of poor drug addicts and professionals

15:24:26 thestringpuller: lol "gentrification"

15:24:35 nubbins`: nice word hey?

15:24:48 nubbins`: "making it fit for the gentry"

15:25:07 nubbins`: same root as "gentleman"

15:26:08 nubbins`: but srsly. there's maybe 40 houses on my dead-end street, property values ranging from $80k to $250k

15:26:16 Namworld: Going to stay like that until I at least repay all my debts. Probably going to stay like that for a while after I repay my debts. You make sure you have no debts and the business is well and you have a nice cushion.

15:26:35 diametric: nubbins`: sounds like you're talking about Baltimore.

15:26:45 nubbins`: diametric: sure, except we don't really have black people here

15:26:47 Namworld: Then you can live well, not the other way around.

15:27:11 Namworld: Otherwise you jeopardize everything.

15:27:44 thestringpuller: Namworld: 0 debt? What if you need credit for a large project.

15:27:57 nubbins`: something like 1% of the population of st john's is black

15:28:11 thestringpuller: I'd assume as long as you make a profit despite capital expenses, credit/debt can be good sometimes

15:28:12 Namworld: Ideally you don't. Although I haven't had problem getting credit.

15:28:12 diametric: It's pretty incredible to look at. In on block you'll see very expensive homes, rich white people walking expensive toy dogs. Go one block down, and you have thugs peddling herion on the corner and prostitutes blowing dudes in the alley.

15:28:23 Namworld: But yes, I agree.

15:28:50 thestringpuller: I guess "short-term" credit is much better than "long term"

15:28:58 nubbins`: diametric: that sounds nice

15:29:16 thestringpuller: given taking short term credit is for expenses leading to a profit and not just buying Ferrari

15:29:46 diametric: nubbins`: Its even better because the crime rarely crosses the boundary of the block because the police and criminals have an informal pact. They don't mess with the gentrified areas, the police don't mess with their shitholes.

15:30:18 nubbins`: everybody's happy except the poor people who aren't criminals!

15:30:22 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

15:30:22 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094107 / 0.00094958 (958718 shares, 902.23 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7302745 shares, 6,885.75 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087815 / 0.00096 (30017455 shares, 26,360.00 BTC)

15:30:31 thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe

15:30:31 assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094554 BTC [-]

15:31:03 diametric: nubbins`: exactly

15:31:05 VanCleef: neobee was a pretty shitty name anyway

15:31:14 Namworld: If you make largesses to yourself, you go "Boohoo, I've run out of funds, spending everything on advertising and a big salary to myself, now there's nothing left. I'm sorry. So sad." Like neobee and the like.

15:31:52 ThickAsThieves: the name was actually just Neo

15:32:09 Mats_cd03: what, you don't think hamsterdam (a la The Wired) would work?

15:32:30 nubbins`: Mats_cd03 not without an omar ;(

15:32:45 Mats_cd03: (i personally do -- that reality has played out thousands of times in thousands of jurisdictions)

15:32:53 VanCleef: Neo & Morpheus

15:32:56 nubbins`: ^

15:33:02 Namworld: I'll still call it Neobee. Neo never existed anyway, or came close to fruition.

15:33:17 nubbins`: what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms?

15:33:27 VanCleef: lol nubbins

15:34:10 pankkake: first time I loled to a morpheus meme!

15:34:18 Namworld: and in Danny's fat salary?

15:34:30 Namworld: How much was he paying himself anyway?

15:35:22 nubbins`: you'll never find out

15:36:17 mike_c: unless tat tells us

15:36:44 VanCleef: nubbins

15:36:47 VanCleef: http://imgur.com/AqkNYGG

15:36:47 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

15:37:16 pankkake: VanCleef: too simple to be funny

15:40:48 Apocalyptic: anyone knows if the blockr.io guys hang out on IRC ?

15:40:57 Namworld: I still owe so much BTC. Not happy about it.

15:41:00 mike_c: kakobrekla is somehow related

15:41:09 jurov: pankkake no these are supposed to be deep wisdoms

15:41:18 ThickAsThieves: <mike_c> unless tat tells us /// that kinda info resided with Neo, I assume

15:41:26 *: Namworld looks at Ukyo

15:41:55 jurov: everyone says to swim against the stream. no one says, make sure you know the direction first

15:42:46 mike_c: ThickAsThieves: you didn't know anything non-public about their financials?

15:43:31 Apocalyptic: doubtful

15:43:39 jurov: mike_c TAT got away to avoid investigation. you expect him to say he knows internal info?

15:43:49 mike_c: no. silly question.

15:44:45 VanCleef: i remember on the second day of neobee ipo i called it a scamm and tat put me on ignore for trolling

15:44:57 VanCleef: apology accepted

15:45:25 pankkake: lol

15:45:43 pankkake: what made you think it was a scam then?

15:46:06 VanCleef: i cant remmeber was a while ago

15:46:21 ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure scam is an appropriate term, however liberally some would like to use it

15:46:35 ThickAsThieves: but the story isnt over yet it seems

15:46:39 Namworld: I'm down a lot of my debt. I have last requests to fulfill. And a lot of people who never replied to me about it.

15:47:17 VanCleef: alot of neobee problems seems to be related to bitfunder and ukyo as well

15:47:43 Namworld: TAT must be satisfied. But a few of my larger lenders are going to get pissed. At least I think so? They don't seem to ask/be in a hurry about it a lot.

15:48:11 nubbins`: busy filing paperwork

15:48:15 jurov: not to mention passthrough shareholders

15:48:38 Namworld: As for most others who lent me smaller amounts... I typically have to run after them for repaying them?

15:48:44 Namworld: Yes, passthrough holders too.

15:49:17 jurov: everyone is so accustomed to scam that they don't even think of researching if we don't offer repayment

15:49:47 Namworld: I send them messages asking about claiming/repaying them and never receive replies...

15:50:01 Namworld: Sometimes for hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

15:50:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.067 = 0.603 BTC [-]

15:50:31 nubbins`: so put a time limit on your next message and wash your hands if they don't reply

15:51:12 Namworld: If I harass them for a few months, they eventually reply, "oh yeah, right, why not? I'll take it."

15:51:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6554 @ 0.00010534 = 0.6904 BTC [-] {17}

15:52:03 Namworld: I'd probably go with Canadian laws about unclaimed debt. Not sure how long it is, but probably a few years.

15:52:30 ThickAsThieves: i had someone redeem 1 BF TAT.ASICMINER share today

15:52:39 Namworld: Keep the list a few years. It's just a file. Not a problem keeping it.

15:52:43 ThickAsThieves: a rare occurence now

15:52:49 Namworld: eh

15:52:50 ThickAsThieves: but some people eventually claim their shit

15:54:57 Namworld: Like, what are people doing? Giving money around to whine against scammers, and when it's not a scam, go "That one is nice. Will leave them my money."

15:57:47 VanCleef: someone give us something good to invest in

15:58:03 thestringpuller: why don't you make your own shit to invest in

15:58:21 Namworld: If I had something good to invest in, I'd probably take it all to myself...

15:58:30 thestringpuller: ^- that

15:58:37 VanCleef: thestringpuller cause i dont want to scam people

15:58:53 Namworld: not share it around. Not before having invested as much as I could reasonably do first.

15:59:11 thestringpuller: VanCleef: how would you scam niggas if you are only investing in your own product?

15:59:16 nubbins`: VanCleef: invest in your future, don't wait for someone else to do it :D

15:59:26 VanCleef: well i'm not a technical person

15:59:31 nubbins`: doesn't matter

15:59:33 nubbins`: learn a trade

15:59:34 VanCleef: so i cant make anything

15:59:40 thestringpuller: nubbins` isn't technical

15:59:45 thestringpuller: but he's good at making art

15:59:50 thestringpuller: as he just said learn a trade

15:59:50 thestringpuller: lol

15:59:56 VanCleef: like what?

16:00:01 thestringpuller: what do you like to do?

16:00:02 nubbins`: TBF i worked as a programmer for 5 years

16:00:11 VanCleef: i just like jizzing

16:00:14 Namworld: Fuck, I'm even wearing rags, come to think of it.

16:00:18 thestringpuller: make porn then

16:00:25 nubbins`: but i dislike corporate like

16:00:26 nubbins`: *life

16:00:27 ThickAsThieves: go work at a zoo

16:00:28 thestringpuller: i'm sure mp would invest in it

16:00:29 ThickAsThieves: as a amonkey

16:00:36 VanCleef: no money in porn when its free on the internet

16:00:50 Namworld: My clothes are full of holes.

16:00:50 nubbins`: VanCleef: well, y'know, get a list of trades that are in demand and pick one

16:00:59 mike_c: throw a dart at the mpex security list and invest.

16:01:06 nubbins`: you know all those idiots driving around in F350 pickups? they did it

16:01:33 VanCleef: hmmm

16:01:59 Namworld: Bail out my lenders, take over my debt.

16:02:00 nubbins`: not sure about where you live, but there's a nation-wide shortage of skilled tradespeople in canada

16:02:08 Namworld: Eh

16:02:14 nubbins`: you can make $80k a year just doing electrical work on a job site

16:02:19 nubbins`: or welding, w/e

16:02:27 VanCleef: no thanks nubbins

16:02:35 VanCleef: i already have a good job at subway

16:02:45 nubbins`: one of those words didn't belong in that sentence

16:02:46 Namworld: oh, yes. Electrician/plumber/welders/etc get high pay in Canada.

16:03:09 Namworld: Like better than tech sector/accountant/lawyers/doctors often.

16:03:15 nubbins`: yup

16:03:30 Namworld: welders, not that high, but electrician/plumber for sure.

16:03:32 VanCleef: i think sfi will be the next scam to fall

16:03:32 nubbins`: shit, substitute teachers make $35-40/hr

16:03:46 nubbins`: Namworld: underwater welding is where it's at these days

16:03:51 Namworld: But welders still get a good pay.

16:04:00 Namworld: oh, underwater. Well yes.

16:04:06 VanCleef: i read you can make 100k working in a laundry room on an oil rig

16:04:25 VanCleef: but yeh just looking for bitcoin related security to invest in

16:04:29 VanCleef: no a job or career

16:04:34 nubbins`: VanCleef i have a friend who did a 3-year ROV course at a local college

16:04:43 nubbins`: he paid off his student loans in three months WASHING DISHES on a supply boat.

16:04:52 Namworld: If you don't mind living on an oil rig, yeah, I suppose.

16:04:57 VanCleef: money isn't a problem

16:05:06 VanCleef: just asking what to invest in

16:05:10 nubbins`: ah

16:05:11 nubbins`: well

16:05:12 nubbins`: nothing.

16:05:16 nubbins`: seriously.

16:05:23 VanCleef: mmmk

16:05:27 nubbins`: not joking

16:05:35 Namworld: Well you could take over my BTC debt. It's BTC denominated.

16:05:40 Apocalyptic: VanCleef, gimme money

16:05:46 nubbins`: throw some money down on some bitbets

16:06:25 nubbins`: there's 5.5btc up for grabs on the s.mg VWAP bet, and that's closing around the time chetty said the next release is coming out

16:06:47 Apocalyptic: more seriously though, if you have to ask what to invest in, it's probably better not to invest at all

16:06:56 VanCleef: yeh true apo

16:07:09 VanCleef: maybe i should sponser a hackathon thingy

16:07:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.47941077 BTC to 4`937 shares, 50221 satoshi per share

16:07:33 *: VanCleef shrugs

16:08:09 drkow: my girlfriend had 20k burning a hole in her pocket and invested it at some bank last week, I can't wait for her to lose it so I can laugh

16:08:37 Namworld: I doubt you can fullfill buying my debt in any meaningful fashion tho.

16:08:55 nubbins`: ...you can't wait for your girlfriend to lose twenty thousand dollars... so you can laugh at her?

16:08:58 ThickAsThieves: thats idiotic to say

16:09:01 *: nubbins` raises eyebrow

16:09:11 VanCleef: maybe i should start investing in the stock market

16:09:34 nubbins`: maybe you should create a diverse portfolio like an adult would

16:09:41 thestringpuller: the only thing to invest in is MPOE

16:09:50 Apocalyptic: the stock market is so inflated it hurts

16:09:51 thestringpuller: and that might bubble if too many people start dumping money in it

16:10:09 VanCleef: we're already in a bailout bubble

16:11:40 thestringpuller: ;;google vim golf

16:11:41 gribble: VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: http://vimgolf.com/; Changelog, Rules & FAQ - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every ...: http://vimgolf.com/about; Leaderboard - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: http://vimgolf.com/top

16:12:44 thestringpuller: nubbins`: what do you charge for screen printing?

16:12:59 thestringpuller: like what's the upfront per screen fee, and cost per shirt?

16:14:32 nubbins`: varies based on quantity and number of colors. generally there's a flat setup fee of $40, plus $15 for each extra color after the first

16:14:48 nubbins`: blank shirts are $5 for regular, $7 for organic, plus printing labor

16:15:25 nubbins`: ink costs, etc

16:15:34 nubbins`: if you had some numbers in mind, i could give you numbers bac

16:15:35 nubbins`: k

16:16:01 VanCleef: cool nubbins you make shirts?

16:16:14 nubbins`: shirts, posters, download cards, cd/vinyl sleeves, books, w/e

16:16:21 VanCleef: i have a friend starting his clothing label looking to me to outsource it for him

16:17:03 nubbins`: you'd probably get a better price from a local company, since they wouldn't have to ship the product to you

16:17:03 VanCleef: yeh nice

16:18:37 benkay: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/02_bitcoin-q1-2014.html

16:18:38 ozbot: Bitcoin Q1 2014

16:18:40 benkay: ;;gpg eauth benkay

16:18:41 gribble: Request successful for user benkay, hostmask benkay!~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/39F274AFBC7ACAC7

16:18:46 benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:9b1f48c2d3f7308c2bfc37b583412ab487e081fbf3942171827ad295

16:18:47 gribble: Error: Incorrect one-time password. Try again.

16:18:50 benkay:

16:18:53 benkay: morning.

16:18:59 benkay: wat

16:19:15 VanCleef: yeh true nubbins

16:19:16 benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13dc0a8f650d9a3d5bc25aa33a2bb9b6b90e2985d8f072845fe7fad9

16:19:16 benkay:

16:19:17 gribble: You are now authenticated for user benkay with key 39F274AFBC7ACAC7

16:19:57 nubbins`: "despite it processing buttloads and buttloads of btc-denominated bets"

16:20:03 nubbins`: what's the buttload-to-btc rate these days?

16:21:07 nubbins`: hm, apparently roughly 1:1

16:23:05 benkay: whatever i want :)

16:26:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0436 = 0.1308 BTC [+]

16:27:00 benkay: hey does anyone have a concise "merge commits suck and you suck for producing them" on tap?

16:27:20 pankkake: no, but I'd like to

16:27:29 pankkake: also one of the reasons I hate github

16:27:37 benkay: i have a contractor whose hand needs to either be slapped or held, can't decide yet.

16:27:57 pankkake: worst is merge commits with nothing

16:27:58 benkay: pankkake: what does github have to do with merge commits?

16:28:04 pankkake: just a bad git pull

16:28:13 pankkake: you can merge pull requests from the web interface

16:28:26 pankkake: and it creates a github merge commit

16:28:50 benkay: ah

16:29:16 benkay: eh i'm not so hateful about that. it's nice to have a point at which the test branch was merged into master to point at.

16:30:02 benkay: it's the dev fucking with the test branch generating oodles of 'merging XXX of remote into XXX'

16:30:03 pankkake: but it gets for every little fix - actually little fixes are extremely insuited to pull requests

16:30:14 pankkake: just let me send a .patch…

16:30:16 benkay: sure sure

16:30:35 pankkake: :)

16:30:38 benkay: but apparently people can't even email any more

16:30:43 benkay: much less send patches over email

16:30:56 pankkake: yup

16:31:07 benkay: so here's the problem: people working on css do not understand or care about complexities of version control

16:31:20 benkay: nor, probably, should they.

16:31:36 benkay: (open to argument on that one. i don't know anything anyways.)

16:32:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00094423 = 27.2882 BTC [-] {2}

16:33:10 VanCleef: i actually like pankkake idea getting paid to troll

16:33:13 pankkake: I worked with a css guy that mastered version control, it's great but indeed rare

16:33:19 VanCleef: id love to setup a call centre in india doing that

16:33:25 benkay: ;;later tell blackwhite remind me to ask you about pricing models some day

16:33:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:33:26 pankkake: VanCleef: never happened and isn't open to business now

16:33:42 benkay: pankkake: sounds dangerously close to actually learning how to program :D :D :D

16:33:43 VanCleef: do you think the idea could work?

16:34:09 VanCleef: i might steal it

16:34:26 benkay: VanCleef: don't even need a call center. just a few effective humans somewhere cheap.

16:34:29 benkay: course

16:34:31 benkay: "effective"

16:34:33 benkay: "cheap"

16:34:34 pankkake: benkay: yeah, he knew how to. which is why I loved working with him: the CSS he was writing made sense. I almost never had to touch it, because it was thought for what was going to be written

16:34:51 VanCleef: troll patrol inc

16:35:02 benkay: VanCleef: do it.

16:35:13 pankkake: anyway, with git you can rewrite commits etc., so perhaps you could have some sort of staging branch for those who don't understand git

16:35:25 VanCleef: yeh maybe benkay

16:35:37 benkay: client ain't gonna pay for that

16:35:48 benkay: easier to crack the whip on new devs than get client to pay for vcs maintenance

16:36:02 pankkake: still they might have to rebase one day

16:36:06 VanCleef: troll/hyping service

16:36:31 pankkake: VanCleef: I don't think many have the funds for it

16:36:44 VanCleef: to pay for the serivce or set it up?

16:36:49 pankkake: to pay for the service

16:37:04 VanCleef: just like having a marketing budget

16:37:37 bounce: er. this is the usual "never time to do it right the first time, always time to do it again later, at higher cost" argument. yet somehow there's always room for people with clue. funny how that works.

16:38:16 pankkake: my theory is that smart clients don't outsource anyways

16:38:49 pankkake: but perhaps I'm jaded by past experiences

16:39:17 VanCleef: hmmm

16:39:36 benkay: just do less, but do it right.

16:39:45 bounce: at the very least they'll be picky about whom they outsource to

16:39:46 benkay: i like smart clients who know nothing about compute.

16:40:08 pankkake: doing less, but shipping on time, have less bugs etc. = happy client

16:40:20 pankkake: the issue is that you don't have to overpromise first

16:40:55 benkay: yeah f overpromising.

16:40:58 benkay: f overdelivering.

16:41:21 pankkake: I was fed up with having to fill overpromises I didn't make

16:41:50 pankkake: the worst was when my estimates were modified without my knowledge

16:41:57 benkay: ho ho ho

16:42:00 benkay: that's a funny one

16:42:11 pankkake: reasoning: "we need to have the contract, it will bring more business later"

16:42:16 *: bounce waits for a couple of /good/ devs and assorted other techies to team up and find themselves /competent/ management to lord it over them. that'll be the day.

16:42:49 pankkake: bounce: I know a few companies like that

16:43:00 benkay: bounce: the only solution is to be the competent management you wish to see in the world :)

16:43:49 bounce: no, that's not the only solution. far from it. but understanding that with good management you achieve more is a prerequisite.

16:44:10 benkay: i hear you.

16:45:04 pankkake: what I've seen is: people who know each other for years, start a company, struggle a lot but at least they enjoy it

16:45:33 pankkake: no recruiting outside the web of trust basically

16:45:35 bounce: that might work. it might also end in tears.

16:45:44 pankkake: yeah. lots of drama too

16:45:52 pankkake: sometimes

16:46:43 bounce: well, that's very limiting. what you need to do is very picky who you pick for what task. including picking promising newbies and give them leeway to earn (or lose) trust.

16:47:31 benkay: bounce: if you go that route you gotta set aside the time for mentorship and training as well.

16:48:03 bounce: ayup. but if you don't... you have more fires to put out. those aren't free either.

16:49:31 thestringpuller: lol never do business in btc outside web of trust

16:49:59 thestringpuller: benkay: would you rather the homie rebase the commits?

16:50:09 benkay: i don't really care

16:50:17 benkay: don't pollute test or master with your damn merge commits

16:50:26 benkay: i think i'm just going to say: 'see this? stop it.'

16:50:56 bounce: git patch output over email to the mentor

16:50:57 benkay: feelings be damned, he's not even my contractor.

16:51:20 thestringpuller: so tell him to do --no-ff or something

16:54:07 blackwhite: morning gents

16:55:43 pankkake: you could provide a .gitconfig wich prevents those by default

16:56:22 MisterE: fun market today ;)

16:56:40 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

16:56:41 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 443.0, Best ask: 445.57, Bid-ask spread: 2.57000, Last trade: 443.0, 24 hour volume: 26274.54235203, 24 hour low: 440.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 468.462041006

16:56:50 thestringpuller: damn missing out on all the buying opportunity

16:56:56 MisterE: yea

16:57:07 MisterE: I'm gonna take a big GULP

16:57:36 thestringpuller: damn 50 USD spread over 24 hours

16:57:46 thestringpuller: market is becoming volatile

16:57:52 MisterE: down that much in 6

16:58:18 thestringpuller: volume is relatively low though...

16:58:22 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

16:58:22 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094123 / 0.00094958 (896526 shares, 843.84 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7325348 shares, 6,907.07 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087825 / 0.00096 (30005155 shares, 26,352.03 BTC)

16:58:44 thestringpuller: $depth mpoe

16:58:45 mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE Bids: ['15650 @ 0.000944', '1292 @ 0.00094275', '29800 @ 0.00094126', '25400 @ 0.000939', '30700 @ 0.00093838']

16:58:46 mpexbot: thestringpuller: Asks: ['23152 @ 0.00094554', '16100 @ 0.00094958', '11500 @ 0.00095027', '35600 @ 0.00095069', '118611 @ 0.00096']

17:00:19 MisterE: LTC is a bloodbath lel

17:06:53 benkay: still gotta bleed out all of the enthusiasm of 2012

17:08:57 thestringpuller: enthusiasm? 2012 was frightening

17:09:08 thestringpuller: nothing compares to pirate's default...

17:10:06 jborkl: idk $266 to $50 was rough

17:10:12 jborkl: in a day

17:11:37 jborkl: but yeah $13 to $7? with pirate was pretty nasty, I thought it was over then

17:12:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23152 @ 0.00094554 = 21.8911 BTC [+]

17:16:36 MisterE: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/okcoin-fxbtc-btc38-announce-end-chinese-yuan-deposits-starting-april-3-2014/2014/04/02

17:16:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 133 @ 0.0008329 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {2}

17:21:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 160 @ 0.00084066 = 0.1345 BTC [+] {2}

17:21:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.57100012 = 17.13 BTC [-] {4}

17:23:01 MisterE: !ticker m btce

17:23:02 assbot: You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.

17:23:26 MisterE: ;;ticker

17:23:28 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 434.99, Best ask: 435.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.0, 24 hour volume: 28041.83140952, 24 hour low: 435.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 466.903021318

17:23:50 mike_c: ;;ticker --market btce

17:23:50 gribble: BTC-E BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 427.682, Best ask: 428.999, Bid-ask spread: 1.31700, Last trade: 429.0, 24 hour volume: 18362.17626, 24 hour low: 426.01999, 24 hour high: 498.70001, 24 hour vwap: 462.36

17:26:30 MisterE: ;;volume --market btce

17:26:31 gribble: Error: "volume" is not a valid command.

17:26:51 MisterE: ;;depth --market btce

17:26:51 gribble: Error: "depth" is not a valid command.

17:27:05 MisterE: grrrribble!

17:28:51 punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/21589145-how-sort-best-rest-whos-good-forecasts

17:30:24 MisterE: ;;baratio --market btce

17:30:24 gribble: BTCChina | Total bids: 1750087 USD. Total asks: 8049 BTC. Ratio: 217.42721 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 23.5225 seconds

17:37:02 benkay: wow baratio that's a new one

17:37:28 benkay: ;;baratio --market bitstamp

17:37:28 gribble: Bitstamp | Total bids: 9380174 USD. Total asks: 24265 BTC. Ratio: 386.56786 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 192.8659 seconds

17:37:52 benkay: ;;baratio --market kraken

17:37:53 gribble: Kraken | Total bids: 10750 USD. Total asks: 62 BTC. Ratio: 170.90992 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0002 seconds

17:38:23 benkay: ;;calc 9380164/450

17:38:23 gribble: 20844.8088889

17:38:34 benkay: ;;calc 20844.8088889/24265

17:38:35 gribble: 0.859048377865

17:38:48 benkay: ;;calc 9380164/386.56786

17:38:49 gribble: 24265.2454345

17:39:02 benkay: whoop

17:39:13 benkay: ;;calc 9380164/24265

17:39:13 gribble: 386.571770039

17:39:34 Mats_cd03: wow kraken is still operating

17:39:45 benkay: jurov kakobrekla is usd/btc sensible in the context of a bid/ask ratio?

17:39:56 benkay: is this how the pros do it?

17:42:13 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

17:42:14 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 437.74, Best ask: 437.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 437.9, 24 hour volume: 28545.80434639, 24 hour low: 430.51, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 465.254654461

17:44:11 benkay: ;;ticker --market kraken

17:44:12 gribble: Kraken BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 450.0, Best ask: 457.28141, Bid-ask spread: 7.28141, Last trade: 457.28141, 24 hour volume: 18.86593899, 24 hour low: 452.73035, 24 hour high: 502.0, 24 hour vwap: 487.36119

17:44:16 jurov: honestly i dont know

17:46:45 benkay: has the gox practice of allowing unfunded bids and asks spread to bitstamp et al.?

17:49:01 Apocalyptic: benkay, btw what's your basis for the "stamp may be running a fractional" ?

17:49:14 benkay: rumors. fud.

17:49:40 benkay: one of those things that's hard to prove ahead of time.

17:49:52 benkay: see also: Gox.

17:49:57 Apocalyptic: not asking you to prove anything, just wondering

17:50:03 benkay: although they had known epic haxx ahead of time.

17:50:08 benkay: oh i can't prove anything, no worries :)

17:50:17 Apocalyptic: well afaik mircea hasn't called out stamp on fraudsters just yet

17:50:25 Apocalyptic: so it's different from the gox situation

17:53:02 thestringpuller: gox was called out almost a year ago

17:53:06 thestringpuller: is not more

17:54:12 jborkl: pankkake , you round

17:54:20 pankkake: yes

17:54:28 jborkl: you are in France correct?

17:54:31 pankkake: yes

17:55:49 jborkl: Can you see what the price of this piece of equipment is, the interwebs will not find it in english

17:55:58 jborkl: Gyspot Inverter BP.LC it is French made

18:02:59 pankkake: jborkl: http://www.outillage-btp.com/fr/p/5257-poste-de-soudage-par-point-gyspot-inverter-bp-lc-s7 … this is the best I can find so far

18:03:06 pankkake: apparently they don't want the price to be public

18:03:23 pankkake: http://www.kessaoutil.com/marque-gys-croissant-1.html sells the brand, and the product doesn't seem to be there

18:04:08 pankkake: http://ww1.outillage-francilien.fr/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?ref=5S2001110&type=526&code_lg=lg_fr&num=2 9 840.00 €

18:04:10 ozbot: 5S2001110 - POSTE DE SOUDURE PAR POINTS INVERTER GYSPOT BP.LC-S7 REFROIDI LIQUIDE GYS

18:04:11 jborkl: Thank you for looking, I need to buy a few and the price controls are tight.

18:04:30 jborkl: well a few oem approved from somewhere besides here

18:04:32 pankkake: "outillage" seems to be a good keyword for finding

18:04:32 benkay: state-backed price controls?

18:04:55 jborkl: no, vendor price control

18:09:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06847499 = 0.2739 BTC [-]

18:14:58 jurov: https://www.progressbar.sk/en/blog/posts/keynescoin first cryptocoin with exhaustive secification

18:15:00 ozbot: KeynesCoin - ProgressBar HackerSpace

18:18:22 cads: hey guys, where should I learn marketing?

18:19:23 rithm: 4chan

18:19:50 cads: I've got a small virtual firm, with just one client that gives us a $1K job every couple of weeks

18:20:04 Mats_cd03: and what does your firm do

18:20:26 pankkake: jurov: ahahah. not even a reference to bernankoin though :(

18:20:38 cads: I wanna make a site and push some calls out to some other companies, I just... currently have no idea how to do that efficiently, and every reason to learn how

18:21:18 jurov: bernankoin is too unregulated

18:21:19 cads: Mats_cd03: we're a 2 person product prototyping team with a 3d printer and cad capability

18:21:30 pankkake: yeah

18:22:09 Mats_cd03: compile a list of companies operating in a space that could use your service

18:22:21 nubbins`: ^

18:22:23 Mats_cd03: and start cold calling/pitching

18:22:26 nubbins`: ^^

18:22:54 nubbins`: also, yellow pages (srsly)

18:23:13 nubbins`: start going to trade shows etc too

18:23:36 Mats_cd03: build a site with a nice template and short, legible URL and then start printing flyers

18:23:46 Mats_cd03: old school is best school

18:24:42 cads: so call random companies that I know develop products, get someone medium level on the phone and then explain something like, "hey I'm cads with shopcoin prototypes, and the reason I'm calling you today is to learn a little bit about how your company currently uses prototypes in its product design phase"

18:25:25 Mats_cd03: sure

18:25:45 Mats_cd03: that sounds more like research doe

18:25:59 Mats_cd03: when i do things like that i offer to buy lunch and see them in person

18:26:41 Mats_cd03: incidentally, you get some good networking done if you have a decent sized lunch budget

18:26:51 cads: Haha, I'll keep that in mind!

18:27:21 drkow: satoshi will speak to you for a free lunch

18:27:36 punkman: cads, companies that develop products likely don't need you. better to target designers, wannabe inventors, marketers, etc

18:29:14 Mats_cd03: yeah, pretty much that

18:29:35 Mats_cd03: the small bidness angle works better in that space

18:29:49 Mats_cd03: since theres no moat in 3d printing

18:30:13 cads: We are local and so we can deliver faster than the major prototyping houses

18:30:49 cads: we don't want to deal with small people because that kills our margins and forces us to deal with really bad 3d modelling.

18:31:11 cads: I think that's definitely an area to grow in, though.

18:31:12 Mats_cd03: thought about offering a design service?

18:31:28 MisterE: poorest customers are always the most hassle

18:33:31 cads: Mats_cd03: the design service we offer is great - I have 10 years cad experience and so does my partner. And it's a good price - 35 an hour for these low level cusomers (60 for corporate) - and where our corporate client is happy with our prices, the low level clients hate to even think of paying 35 an hour....

18:34:24 cads: they're like "well lemme go back to sketchup and see if I can make a part that you'll say is makeable, thanks"

18:35:26 cads: or they'll contact you wanting a huge order of 300 of some small, crude looking widget

18:35:29 Mats_cd03: on average, what are your billable hours per design

18:35:29 cads: their great invention

18:37:07 Mats_cd03: i think theres a sweet spot for pricing that can still be profitable for a two man operation

18:38:05 cads: Mats_cd03: I wouldn't bill more than two hours for converting a 2d drawing into a part, say with one round of revision for the client.

18:40:22 cads: to be honest I need to learn more about how to structure and price design work

18:41:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00094649 = 31.4235 BTC [+]

18:42:49 ThickAsThieves: cads

18:42:52 ThickAsThieves: flat rates

18:43:00 ThickAsThieves: with boundaries

18:43:21 ThickAsThieves: tell them exactly what they get for a flat rate, and what costs might be beyond that

18:43:37 ThickAsThieves: and what might induce extra costs

18:44:11 ThickAsThieves: if youve been doing it 10 yrs this shouldnt be hard to map out

18:44:40 cads: with the clients I feel like just talking to them about their designs and what it would take to make them makeable means they get expert input without paying a dime, and then they realize they can't afford the job and we're out half an hour worth of email correspondence time.

18:45:12 cads: I don't want clients that don't know how to do well for themselves, lol

18:45:53 ThickAsThieves: it's okay to have standards and minimum things worth your time

18:46:07 ThickAsThieves: it does get tricky to bill for a pitch process

18:46:12 ThickAsThieves: but it's not absurd

18:46:48 cads: yeah, I definitely wanna regroup my efforts and get with some known best approaches

18:47:28 cads: getting discouraged by my interactions so far would seem to imply I've done everything under the sun and it didn't work, but that's not at all true

18:47:51 cads: ThickAsThieves: I like the flat rate approach!

18:48:21 ThickAsThieves: hourly from the get-go just doesnt work

18:48:39 cads: one thing I notice is that charging people per hour seems to throw them for a loop

18:48:46 cads: not corporate people

18:48:49 cads: but regular people

18:48:52 nubbins`: okay, so.

18:48:56 ThickAsThieves: not all people

18:48:58 nubbins`: we had some snow here the other day.

18:49:06 nubbins`: check out this video (sorry about the ads): http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/NL/Featured/ID/2446160712/

18:49:14 ThickAsThieves: however it's just as much a burden on you as tge customer

18:49:27 ThickAsThieves: tracking all your hours, feeling guilty and adjusting hours

18:49:34 cads: right, extra record keeping or guessing and adjusting

18:49:41 ThickAsThieves: trying to "play" it to what you think the client will accept

18:49:44 cads: right

18:49:45 ThickAsThieves: it's a silly game

18:49:47 cads: this is just so much simpler

18:50:11 ThickAsThieves: also, dont compromise your minimum package

18:50:15 nubbins`: aaah i'm fuckin crying watching this video

18:50:24 ThickAsThieves: truly know what your minimum sized project is

18:50:28 cads: maybe have a "maker" tier design service and a "industrial" tier

18:50:30 ThickAsThieves: and dont do less

18:51:04 ThickAsThieves: also have a process for giving fair warning about extra costs

18:51:14 ThickAsThieves: dont spend the budget and leave a client stranded

18:51:30 cads: for the freemium tier the client gets their design automatically validated by my software - I do that for all prints anyways

18:51:41 MisterE: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-supreme-court-campaign-contributions-ruling-impact-20140402,0,2106567.story

18:51:42 ozbot: Supreme Court ruling on campaign contributions: More clout for the rich - latimes.com

18:51:56 mike_c: i have contracted out many many tasks on hourly and flat-fee basis. both sides have always been happier with flat fee.

18:52:11 ThickAsThieves: earlier asked about learning marketing, which is obv a loaded question

18:52:13 mike_c: but those are largely recurring tasks, and the fee can be adjusted if one side is unbalanced

18:53:01 ThickAsThieves: also dont feel guilty when your flat feed is 500% more cost than work was actually needed to complete

18:53:12 ThickAsThieves: youll need that padding for the ones that are the reverse

18:54:53 cads: I don't want those minimal customers to sense that, lol

18:55:00 thestringpuller: sorry to interrupt

18:55:08 thestringpuller: BUT

18:55:12 thestringpuller: ThickAsThieves hit nail on head

18:55:15 ThickAsThieves: dont worry about what they "sense" the rates are on the label

18:55:43 ThickAsThieves: dont take no shit, and dont be no shit

18:55:44 cads: by complying to the flat fee they actually have to come to a stance that it's at least fair-ish

18:56:01 ThickAsThieves: not "-ish"

18:56:06 ThickAsThieves: it's the price to play

18:56:24 ThickAsThieves: without it, you dont exist and cant provide the service they value

18:56:31 Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, maybe he meant it in the karpeles way

18:56:35 thestringpuller: As T-Pain would say, "Whatever I send out homie I'm a make back. Put that on my Maybach"

18:57:25 cads: ThickAsThieves: the customer may grudgingly accept the price knowing full well they will utilize only 10% of the service bundle they're purchasing. And this is okay because it get them the play they need.

18:58:12 cads: sounds good

18:58:14 Mats_cd03: i think charging $100 for every design would serve you well

18:59:32 Mats_cd03: its a nice round number that establishes value and leaves you with negotiating power

19:00:26 punkman: missing a 0 there

19:00:35 cads: so right now my clients feel too cheap to pay $60 design fee, _and_ they find out how much I ostensibly work.

19:00:40 thestringpuller: or a few zeros

19:00:54 thestringpuller: find better clients?

19:00:57 cads: telling them 100 stops the games of when the customer is assuming it'll only take 20 minutes of design work.

19:01:16 cads: and keeps the truly cheap customers from even coming in the door

19:01:19 ThickAsThieves: cads, even if the minimum is perceived to be more work than needed, it does a very important thing

19:01:31 ThickAsThieves: allows you opportunity to OVER-deliver

19:01:46 cads: this is what we were able to do for our large client

19:01:57 ThickAsThieves: it also motivates you to do good work

19:02:00 ThickAsThieves: and impress

19:02:02 ThickAsThieves: etc

19:02:08 cads: we gave him a part that was so strong you could club a seal with it

19:02:33 cads: where the part that the company's overseas printer made would creak if you squeezed it

19:02:50 cads: I was particularly proud of our machine for that

19:03:19 cads: ThickAsThieves: that's a very very important point to me

19:03:19 ThickAsThieves: yep, set yourself up for success and progress, everyone wins

19:03:37 ThickAsThieves: if it doesnt work out, do something else

19:03:47 ThickAsThieves: at least you dont need to spend 20 years being miserable

19:04:21 cads: lol, even if I produce failure after failure there are still gonna be the moments where everyone is brilliant!

19:05:16 punkman: cads, what kind of printer do you have?

19:06:38 cads: it is a delta gantry printer with a cylindrical build volume approximately 200mm in diameter and 300mm tall - a Rostock Max, manufactured by the awesome See-Me-CNC

19:11:55 punkman: cads, cool stuff, haven't had a chance to play with a delta bot. I've built a couple Prusas myself, calibration was kinda impossible though and I had better things to do, so I just got rid of them.

19:14:58 benkay: over deliver on quality, though. not features or time spent on the thing.

19:21:58 [KS]: cads: my 0.02c - customers bring customers. start with the cheapskates and guess what your future customers will be ... it's very important you chose your "inital" group of customers carefully and that you don't hesistate to fire the ones you don't want. return customers are more valuable than one-offs.

19:22:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.06600011 = 0.594 BTC [-] {2}

19:25:07 [KS]: if you have enough experience, you can even evaluate the "avg lifetime worth" of a customer, that helps price your service as well.

19:28:33 diametric: cads: Oh you have a Rostock Max?

19:29:30 cads: yep, it's given us the deepest of headaches and the purest of joys :P

19:29:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 472 @ 0.0008881 = 0.4192 BTC [+] {5}

19:30:42 diametric: cads: nice. I'm very familiar with it =)

19:30:47 cads: get it tuned up and you have a formidable machine

19:30:57 cads: ah, nice!

19:31:04 diametric: I've been to SeeMeCNC's machine shop, John's a friend of mine

19:31:04 cads: You have a Romax?

19:31:14 cads: John's great.

19:31:15 diametric: cads: http://i.imgur.com/xHo4VDX.jpg pic of my lab

19:31:21 diametric: He is, he's a pretty awesome guy

19:31:24 cads: Saved our butt during a job.

19:32:40 cads: hey have you given any thought to the thermal engineering that'd go into a heated build volume for a delta beast?

19:33:27 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

19:33:28 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 441.04, Best ask: 442.55, Bid-ask spread: 1.51000, Last trade: 442.55, 24 hour volume: 31652.77079318, 24 hour low: 430.51, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 461.473930677

19:33:38 kakobrekla: hi, who ranged

19:34:02 cads: we don't want to build our next printer but we will, if we can't find a well engineered delta printer with heated build volume

19:34:26 cads: also the outer envelope of the machine _needs_ to be completely inert and safe

19:36:05 diametric: hmm

19:36:44 diametric: You could try keeping the part warm with IR heat lamps pointed at the build area

19:36:45 diametric: but its not idea

19:37:32 kakobrekla: Apocalyptic what about blockr

19:37:50 diametric: ideal*

19:38:02 punkman: if you build an enclosure, the heated platform and extruder can probably heat up the whole thing. You just want to avoid overheating the steppers after that.

19:38:16 diametric: yeah, it definitely will

19:38:28 cads: the steppers can easily live outside of the volume in the romax design, luckily

19:38:29 diametric: I've used giant cardboard boxes as enclosures on parts I had warping issues with

19:38:34 cads: to wit, they already do

19:38:37 diametric: yeah

19:39:00 Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, wanted to contact them regarding the lack of market listing for ATC

19:39:17 kakobrekla: what the vol

19:39:24 cads: I'm thinking of lasering an acrylic envelope for the whole printer

19:39:32 kakobrekla: whats the vol*

19:39:36 diametric: cads: You could probably use some extrusions and build yourself an acrylic octagon enclosure.

19:39:45 diametric: Just put hinges on a part of it and you can literally wrap it around

19:39:49 cads: I estimate $200-$300 to have the stuff made

19:39:52 Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, what timeframe ?

19:39:57 punkman: cads, there's still the extruder's stepper, unless you go bowden cable

19:40:07 diametric: punkman: Almost all deltas are bowden

19:40:16 kakobrekla: dunno, spit out the numbers, daily, weekly, monthly

19:40:20 diametric: Theres a few that aren't, but most of them are since its a lot of weight to move around

19:40:25 cads: we can put the extruder out of the space I think

19:40:33 diametric: I'm even using the magnetic ball joints

19:40:39 cads: err, the e-motor

19:40:50 cads: diametric: how are you those working for you?

19:40:51 punkman: I've been told bowden is a headache, but I wouldn't know

19:41:03 cads: I don't know anything other than bowden

19:41:15 cads: and yeah, we still can't do bridging right

19:41:36 cads: there are some weird issues

19:42:30 cads: and some practical ones - like the bowden tube twice popped out of its push-n-lock connector

19:42:56 Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, current daily: 38,532 ATC, weekly: 544,043 ATC, monthly: 3,159,523 ATC

19:43:23 cads: I'd definitely feel iffy about putting an extruder motor directly on the end of the delta effector arm

19:43:41 cads: already I feel like there's too much sway in the arm and in the printer columns

19:43:44 kakobrekla: whats that in btc

19:43:46 kakobrekla: ?

19:43:57 Apocalyptic: would be nice to have the charts like other coins do

19:44:01 punkman: cads, romax page shows a direct-drive extruder, you got a different one?

19:44:24 kakobrekla: yes Apocalyptic but the signal must not be fucked or else its useless

19:44:30 punkman: oh never mind, I wasn't looking close enough

19:44:40 kakobrekla: meaning you need some vol to average out, is all im saying.

19:45:08 Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, you can divide by a million roughly

19:45:24 Apocalyptic: afaik it's the most active ATC market

19:46:20 kakobrekla: whats the url again?

19:46:24 kakobrekla: sorry forgot

19:46:34 Apocalyptic: https://x-bt.com/markets/atcbtc

19:46:35 ozbot: X-BT - The new marketplace for trading Bitcoin with Litecoin, Namecoin and Altcoin

19:46:43 kakobrekla: k, ill let you know.

19:46:55 cads: punkman: link?

19:47:00 cads: oh

19:47:02 cads: lol

19:47:04 Apocalyptic: I sent an email in the meantime

19:47:36 kakobrekla: well you can send as many as you want, those are free.

19:47:59 Apocalyptic: heh

19:48:02 cads: punkman: all in all I like bowden

19:48:38 cads: for example if you have a 5 filament drive with a mixing extruder, you need bowden drives

19:48:48 cads: even if your extruder has a motor on board for the mixing

19:49:31 cads: (the reason to go to all this trouble is, of course, variable color)

19:49:55 cads: (and to a less extent, variable material properties)

19:50:09 punkman: cads, I wonder why there aren't more people working on adding servo/feedback loops on an extruder

19:50:30 punkman: patents maybe?

19:50:46 diametric: punkman: direct drive and bowden are not mutually exclusive

19:50:55 diametric: unless I misunderstood what you said

19:51:52 cads: punkman: problably the entry cost for the design work required for the sensors is what's the main issue

19:52:31 punkman: cads, you in Europe btw?

19:52:32 diametric: punkman: complexity and cost.

19:52:40 diametric: for feedback, is the primary reason.

19:53:00 cads: the math/control/coding is not too hard

19:53:09 cads: at least imo

19:53:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 59 @ 0.0075 = 0.4425 BTC [+]

19:53:39 Apocalyptic: anyway thanks for relaying kako

19:53:53 diametric: cads: the servo motors that have the torque required as much more expensive

19:54:20 cads: ah

19:55:12 diametric: Theres a crazy guy, I think his name is Jetguy on various forums, built such a machine though.

19:55:15 diametric: He spared no expense

19:55:25 cads: I was thinking feedback loops with sensors reading the filament travel, extrusion rate, or extruder pressure

19:55:39 diametric: I was next to him at Makerfaire NYC, its a crazy machine but like $10K USD in cost for a very marginal improvement over a similar $2K machine.

19:56:11 cads: diametric: a company is launching a printer that has a feed sensor that detects that filalement is coming out of the extruder drive and travelling into the bowden tube

19:56:26 diametric: cads: Thats not too hard to do

19:56:37 diametric: Are they doing it for calibration or for safety during a jam?

19:56:46 cads: but the features that gives seem to be lame duck - it can cancel the print if you run out of filament, and that's it

19:57:03 diametric: Yeah that is lame. You can do a really simple encoder on the idler bearing of the extruder

19:57:08 diametric: and detect when it stops extruding due to a jam.

19:57:12 cads: maybe they implement jam detection

19:57:20 cads: I would hope they do

19:57:25 diametric: But it won't cover all jams (such as popping the bowden tube and filament just freely spooling in the air)

19:57:50 cads: right, that's happened to us but it was under our supervision at the time

19:57:57 cads: human feedback loops, we were :)

19:58:10 diametric: I saw that, did you make sure the PTC teeth didn't break? Every time I've had that happen, PTC teeth broke and the whole fitting was weaker as a result.

19:58:11 cads: a pair of*

19:58:17 diametric: Now I have spare PTC fittings, though I haven't had any jam issues.

19:58:22 diametric: cads: What hotend are you using?

19:59:43 cads: diametric: we talked to john about the push to connect - apparently the first batch was cheap chinese stuff

19:59:49 diametric: if you're having bowden bursting jams I'm guessing an E3D while printing PLA.

19:59:55 diametric: or that too.

20:00:00 cads: we got some from mcmaster

20:00:05 cads: and no problems

20:00:42 cads: I don't know what caused the initial explosion but we thought we fixed it and it popped out again

20:00:53 cads: it went a couple weeks without popping out, lol

20:01:04 cads: and didn't pop out due to a jam

20:01:47 cads: so whatevs, we have what appears to be the reason for incidents

20:01:51 diametric: oh okay

20:02:33 cads: and yes, pnc connectors (an amazing technology, really!) are definitely one of those things to have on hand

20:02:33 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

20:07:31 thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe

20:07:31 assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094649 BTC [+]

20:09:08 cads: punkman: we're here in Atlanta, Georgia

20:11:58 mircea_popescu: cedivad hey

20:12:13 cedivad: mircea_popescu hey

20:12:19 mircea_popescu: nice work on the .lk thing

20:14:10 mircea_popescu: (that is yours is it ?)

20:15:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.043895 = 0.439 BTC [+] {2}

20:16:16 mircea_popescu: nubbins`:what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms? << that's only part of it. even should the guy have been fucktarded enough to pay ratecard, which is not entirely impossible, given how well his brain worked otherwise,

20:16:28 mircea_popescu: i can't for the life of me imagine those firms didn't throw him kickbacks under the table

20:16:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0560255 = 0.2241 BTC [-] {4}

20:16:43 mircea_popescu: we're talking cyprus here, which is worse than greece, which is about 50x as bad as chicago in 1890.

20:16:55 cedivad: yes, it is, and thank you (again) :)

20:17:19 mircea_popescu: kickback culture is about as ingrained as kleenexing in the us, i just can't imagine any context in which it'd have been omitted.

20:17:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.577 = 1.154 BTC [+]

20:17:39 mircea_popescu: cedivad you actively working on it ? or kinda made-and-forget sorta deal for oyu ?

20:18:10 cedivad: i'm sporadically working on it

20:19:03 mircea_popescu: aite. well if you need help say, who knows.

20:24:40 mircea_popescu: http://31.media.tumblr.com/0ebe6561215a6a7a5af83de0a80989b1/tumblr_mkz9xgXFqM1rmcr76o1_1280.jpg

20:24:43 mircea_popescu: ckk powar!

20:28:29 moiety: that one *really* needs shoes

20:28:37 moiety: evening all

20:29:08 mircea_popescu: the imf is now "warning of low inflation". for the love of all the gods, this is like living in a dali painting.

20:29:30 mircea_popescu: weren't these fuckwits all over everyone's case all through the 90s about how they're supposed to deflate ? argentina, brazil, asia, the works ?

20:29:36 mircea_popescu: moiety hey there.

20:29:59 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: why do you keep posting pics of poor people from your country with no clothes?

20:30:04 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkOqFEECUAAqEVZ.png << half of china is roughly the size of california.

20:30:44 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid actually that's the ukraine, and i'm trying to get a trend going.

20:30:46 Mats_cd03: i anticipate a tripling of chinese expats in the next ten years

20:30:58 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 whyssat ?

20:31:06 Mats_cd03: .cn sux

20:31:19 mircea_popescu: even if you're rich /

20:31:19 mircea_popescu: ?

20:31:26 moiety: CheckDavid: they generally look quite happy

20:31:27 Mats_cd03: and the nouveau rich are numerous enough to leave the country

20:31:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.57102 = 2.8551 BTC [-]

20:31:51 Mats_cd03: yeah, even if youre rich, the weathy and smart chinese try to leave

20:31:57 Mats_cd03: or at least send their children to western schools

20:32:10 mircea_popescu: hm

20:32:27 mircea_popescu: i always thought it's quaintly corrupt and thus quite comfortable.

20:32:34 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: which trend? Posting pics. Taking them? Or just hanging around naked on the street?

20:32:41 moiety: there's more people in london than the whole of scotland

20:33:17 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid women under 30 spending their life in the buff.

20:33:33 mircea_popescu: moiety yeah but what about sheep ? :D

20:33:59 CheckDavid: Buff?

20:34:14 mircea_popescu: dude you're really new are you ?

20:34:15 mircea_popescu: naked.

20:34:40 thestringpuller: ;;ud buff

20:34:41 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buff | When someone is looking fine u say they are buff (London ting)

20:34:41 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: buff

20:35:01 CheckDavid: I didn't know that term that's all

20:35:15 moiety: mircea_popescu: thats something we have in abundance! take *that* london!

20:35:27 mircea_popescu: :D

20:35:28 mircea_popescu: C?sar Salazar ?Lo m?s dif?cil es dar el primer paso? - Alguien que nunca lleg? al cent?simo paso

20:35:41 mircea_popescu: whoa check that out, apparently you can say intelligent things in spanish!

20:35:42 mircea_popescu: who knew.

20:36:02 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid so now you do :p

20:36:02 CheckDavid: Baha

20:36:12 CheckDavid: Yeah now I do

20:37:08 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: if you watch modern family. There's zone got chick there always quoting popular wisdom is Spanish

20:37:36 CheckDavid: She was talking with this single woman who couldn't find a partner

20:37:44 moiety: http://metro.co.uk/2014/04/01/the-elephant-in-the-living-room-baby-elephant-wanders-into-familys-house-4685779/

20:37:45 CheckDavid: And said something like

20:37:54 ozbot: Thula Thula Private Game Reserve: Elephant wanders into family's house | Metro News

20:38:07 moiety: that guy beats my sheep D:

20:38:09 CheckDavid: Love is always waiting around the corner.

20:38:26 moiety: well CheckDavid can it stop waiting please, im no spring chicken

20:38:39 CheckDavid: (I come from a country with a lot of prostitutes)

20:38:51 mircea_popescu: hahah

20:38:53 moiety: thats nice for you

20:38:55 mircea_popescu: what country is that ?

20:38:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41018 @ 0.0009464 = 38.8194 BTC [-] {2}

20:39:17 diametric: yeah that narrows it down...

20:40:03 mircea_popescu: diametric :p

20:40:14 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=czUeYuR_M0Y

20:40:25 CheckDavid: Sorry moiety ?

20:40:48 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: I think she is from Columbia

20:41:10 Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: the country has been pooped on by industrialization

20:41:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17608 @ 0.00094548 = 16.648 BTC [-]

20:42:48 mircea_popescu: moiety lol shit's adorable

20:46:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00094565 = 9.1728 BTC [+]

20:46:17 blg: CheckDavid: you are from columbia?

20:46:59 CheckDavid: No blg

20:47:08 CheckDavid: moiety: very cute elephant

20:47:08 blg: oh

20:47:29 ThickAsThieves: "Given Russia's ongoing violation of Ukraine¹s sovereignty and territorial integrity, until further notice, the U.S. Government has determined that all NASA contacts with Russian Government representatives are suspended, unless the activity has been specifically excepted. This suspension includes NASA travel to Russia and visits by Russian Government representatives to NASA facilities,

20:47:29 ThickAsThieves: bilateral meetings, email, and teleconferences or videoconferences. At the present time, only operational International Space Station activities have been excepted. In addition, multilateral meetings held outside of Russia that may include Russian participation are not precluded under the present guidance."

20:48:10 ThickAsThieves: we wont do business with you! except where we really need you!

20:48:13 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:48:20 mircea_popescu: so no more us flights to the space station ?

20:48:37 ThickAsThieves: SpaceX never felt so special

20:48:39 mircea_popescu: first they cut the sub-mars nasa budget, now they cut its space station budget under the guise of politics

20:48:45 mircea_popescu: nasa is sort-of like the next neobee

20:49:20 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://jezebel.com/the-united-states-of-bros-a-map-and-field-guide-1550563737 << check out the liberated girls that last got laid back when their hair was a lot shorter hating on teh chicago brohood.

20:49:28 bounce: so, care to step in and fund mpspace and mpmooncolony?

20:49:52 mircea_popescu: i'd rather give to Worldwide Nude Whoredom Foundation.

20:49:54 bounce: especially seeing that mpoe-pr needs a vacation

20:50:11 mircea_popescu: ahaha so you want mpoe-pr sent to teh planets ? noted.

20:50:54 bounce: it'd make for a goodly long trip literally far away from all teh tr0lls

20:51:07 steven-__: people are always blathering on about women in tech where is the outrage over MPOE-PR, surely this is more of a story than that github whore or the nigger who tweeted a picture of some boys making dongle jokes?

20:51:28 bounce: right, scratch that idea. instead of giant pepsi and/or coce ads in orbit we'd get giant nekkid lahdeez in orbit

20:53:45 mircea_popescu: steven-__ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2014#563571

20:55:07 mircea_popescu: and since on it, CheckDavid http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2014#476559 :p

20:55:17 mircea_popescu: you aaaaare noooot aloooone

20:57:19 mircea_popescu: drkow why so mean ?

20:59:02 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: I guess I have to go to ukraine

20:59:09 CheckDavid: The women are just my style

20:59:15 CheckDavid: Physically

20:59:47 mircea_popescu: news at eight : tall young white women in everyone's style, this reporter has learned.

21:00:48 bounce: checkdavid is "everyone" now?

21:01:19 mircea_popescu: i'm being journalistic, stop hating.

21:01:35 mircea_popescu: do you want me to go practice my pistol skills on leah's range ?

21:01:56 Mats_cd03: sounds hot

21:02:30 bounce: turns out "everyone" hates paparazzi. scientific fact.

21:02:55 CheckDavid: My friends criticize my likings in woman

21:03:06 CheckDavid: That's why I said it's style

21:03:12 CheckDavid: *my

21:03:46 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nice find

21:03:49 bounce: s/coce/coke/ and I didn't even notice. such a den of corruption.

21:04:12 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid i nearly said "well fuck them", but then i checked myself.

21:05:38 mircea_popescu: so people who have been following asicminer a lot closer than me... how bad is it ?

21:05:47 mircea_popescu: missed dividends et all, whole thing coming unglued ?

21:07:54 thestringpuller: ;;mine

21:07:54 gribble: Error: "mine" is not a valid command.

21:07:59 thestringpuller: ;;generate

21:07:59 gribble: Error: "generate" is not a valid command.

21:08:04 thestringpuller: ;;gen

21:08:04 gribble: Error: "gen" is not a valid command.

21:08:22 mircea_popescu: genrate dude.

21:08:50 thestringpuller: thank you mircea_popescu

21:08:52 thestringpuller: :P

21:09:26 mircea_popescu: bounce waits for a couple of /good/ devs and assorted other techies to team up and find themselves /competent/ management to lord it over them. that'll be the day. <<< how the fuck do you think mpex works.

21:10:09 BingoBoingo: !t h am1

21:10:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.57100010 / 0.57405722 / 0.61789884 (85 shares, 48.79486377 BTC), 7D: 0.52200000 / 0.60507272 / 0.67470380 (725 shares, 438.67772256 BTC), 30D: 0.52200000 / 0.61177017 / 0.69510000 (3175 shares, 1942.37027936 BTC)

21:10:24 thestringpuller: time at work flies when mircea_popescu is online

21:10:41 mircea_popescu: kik

21:10:45 thestringpuller: I thank you for making my work day during "busy work" from keeping me from going insane.

21:11:27 jurov: http://thebitcoinnews.co.uk/2014/04/02/prypto-group-limited-to-be-listed-on-bitcoinbourse-eu-from-april-15th-2014/

21:11:33 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/b4a37cb3a29bd98adea2e82c27fc171c/tumblr_mkm7tvzCix1rmcr76o1_500.jpg

21:11:37 jurov: IPO for scratch cards. Not impressed.

21:11:37 ozbot: Prypto Group Limited to be listed on BitcoinBourse.eu from April 15th, 2014. | The Bitcoin News

21:11:38 mircea_popescu: have a coupla metro whores.

21:11:54 moiety: CheckDavid: they bring the girls, i infiltrate -assets with cute :D

21:12:09 *: bounce can't afford mpex so no idea how it works

21:12:14 mircea_popescu: (you can tell they're strippers by the back grill they sport there)

21:12:30 Mats_cd03: they need to spend more time in the gym

21:12:53 mircea_popescu: at their age ?

21:12:58 BCB: http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-04-02/

21:12:59 ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

21:13:22 mircea_popescu: i think that makes 5 ?

21:13:44 jurov: BCB, Trezor folks used this on facebook and wrote a comment "can't happen with Trezor"

21:13:53 moiety: there a fight going on outside somewhere :(

21:13:55 jurov: do tell about missing a point

21:13:56 CheckDavid: moiety: haha good job

21:13:58 moiety: there's*

21:14:11 moiety: sorry im like super distracted this pat few days

21:14:18 BCB: jurov: link?

21:14:29 punkman: moiety, http://25.media.tumblr.com/26c81247ed77ecf150566fe28c47af45/tumblr_mh9jtdJxi21rebih1o1_1280.jpg

21:14:31 bounce: bitcoinbourse is the "I SUE YOO" guy, no?

21:14:49 moiety: jurov: omg!! lololololol

21:15:02 moiety: jurovan* sorry i have no idea why i typed jurov

21:15:04 jurov: https://www.facebook.com/BitcoinTrezor?fref=ts

21:15:06 Mats_cd03: i drooled butt grease from bad pizza once

21:15:09 moiety: punkman -- im still doing it

21:15:10 mircea_popescu: lmao

21:15:15 Mats_cd03: true story... ruined some shorts

21:15:20 mircea_popescu: moiety got a crush ?

21:15:30 moiety: lol i havent even talked to him for a few days lol

21:15:32 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 i think that's called olestra.

21:16:01 jurov: bounce, that's dotcoin

21:16:07 moiety: mybrain totally isnt in gear, sorry again punkman

21:16:17 Mats_cd03: it was a place called ciceros pizza thats in san jose ca

21:16:30 jurov: bounce, not sure if that's the guy you hace in mind

21:16:46 *: bounce has been reading too many things lately

21:16:46 Mats_cd03: cicero is an asshole, apparently

21:16:58 mircea_popescu: so kraken pretty much sunk post theyr 600 btc debacle did it.

21:17:12 mircea_popescu: a well. live and fucking learn, when the girl tells you to stfu and fix things you stfu and fix things.

21:17:30 mircea_popescu: o wait... the girl is no longer on the forum. inexplicably, all the rubes muchly relieved. d'oh.

21:17:55 bounce: of course. saves a lot of singtfu and fixing things.

21:18:29 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic as far as i know, stamp's problems in our heads all trace to kakobrekla not likeing them, which was a year ago and he never really explained past "i met them and they're fucktarded".

21:18:58 bounce: the -assets rating agency in action

21:18:58 kakobrekla: go ahead and like them.

21:19:05 jurov: kako explained he has inside info about bitstamp being in mysql backed once a day or so

21:19:13 jurov: and about nejc being an asshole

21:19:20 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i ain't arguing, you speak their language.

21:19:45 *: bounce would concur with the mysql verdict

21:19:51 jborkl: mircea_popescu> so kraken pretty much sunk post theyr 600 btc debacle did it. ??

21:19:55 jborkl: they out

21:19:58 jborkl: ?

21:20:07 kakobrekla: <jurov> kako explained he has inside info about bitstamp being in mysql backed once a day or so < on the same server. only.

21:20:14 mircea_popescu: jborkl apparently doing less volume on their exchange than i do buying stockings.

21:20:23 mircea_popescu: <bounce> the -assets rating agency in action << word.

21:20:33 Neil: More insane hashing power seems to have hit the network. With the price dropping precipitously there must be miners who are hurting.

21:20:55 Mats_cd03: good

21:20:56 mircea_popescu: Neil yeah. the ones not backed by governments.

21:21:02 jborkl: oh and now that -pr is banned, who is going to tell the 3 sock puppets they suck?

21:21:10 bounce: backups on the same server. oh dear. well, I suppose it /might/ guard against mysql inexplicably fscking up in some creative way or other

21:21:37 mircea_popescu: jborkl the theory i heard was more like "well now that mpoe-pr is not there to walk all over their faces, kinda lost interest in the whole show"

21:21:58 mircea_popescu: apparently more poeople were tuning into tardstalk to check out the lady with a chainsaw at the special olympics

21:22:06 mircea_popescu: than for the actual special olympics.

21:22:38 jborkl: good point

21:22:54 kakobrekla: and also, "he never really explained past " < - i did a lot of explaining around, just maybe not in your private window.

21:22:54 bounce: does give the test to the "been propping them up" hypothesis

21:23:16 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla was it in the log somewhere ?

21:23:47 kakobrekla: forums, logs, emails, written in stone, you name it

21:23:53 Neil: 6 blocks in 10 mins ffs

21:23:53 mircea_popescu: cool lol.

21:24:02 mircea_popescu: far as i'm concerned it's still "kako didn't like them"

21:24:15 kakobrekla: well they dont know what they are doing

21:24:18 mircea_popescu: my brain actually works like this. once you become stupid i might start caring about the details of whart they did.

21:24:20 kakobrekla: i dunno why i should like them.

21:24:29 bounce: the brave new bitcoin world so needs code auditors, as well as financial auditors.

21:24:32 mircea_popescu: but until then, whatever. too much stuff to remember anyway.

21:24:50 BingoBoingo: .d

21:24:50 ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 503 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.8722% in 2d 20h 48m 20s

21:25:00 kakobrekla: eh mp, question everything.

21:25:05 mike_c: it's all explained right here. http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=5

21:25:18 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "why am i lazy ?"

21:25:40 kakobrekla: does this has something to do with your last line in pm?

21:25:45 kakobrekla: have

21:25:49 bounce: heck, not even code autitors so much as systems design auditors

21:25:59 mircea_popescu: no, that's different lazy.

21:26:12 mircea_popescu: bounce let's not bounce ahead of ourselves by leaps and bounces.

21:26:25 mircea_popescu: start by getting everyone to FUCKING REPORT BY STANDARD!

21:26:28 bounce: vewwy punny

21:26:47 kakobrekla: anyway i slept for an hour, been up all day, need a break. later

21:26:48 mircea_popescu: there's a standard, every fuckwit dimwit and captain foreskinhead out there thinks they know better.

21:26:52 mircea_popescu: cheers.

21:27:40 mircea_popescu: this one's for moiety : http://25.media.tumblr.com/80bc3ec4c57cfc2e146892d57b5e83a1/tumblr_mkm81qiJRT1rmcr76o1_1280.jpg

21:27:50 bounce: You are the unexpected inquisition and I claim my comfy chair, thanks.

21:29:25 moiety: yay hollandish outings! nice windmill mircea_popescu :P

21:29:50 thestringpuller: ;;google site:fraudsters.com airgap

21:29:52 gribble: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea ...: http://fraudsters.com/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide; Why I suspect Schneier is an US agent. pe fraudsters - Un blog de ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/why-i-suspect-schneier-is-an-us-agent/; Octombrie 2013 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2013/10

21:29:56 moiety: this one is for punkman: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7082531328/hE69CD758/

21:30:12 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: how much must we pay for a "production guide" ?

21:30:41 moiety: why do i live in scotland and not holland? seriously

21:31:00 bounce: because you don't like genever

21:31:55 punkman: this is for people who want to start an "exchange": http://i.imgur.com/5C8zhB5.jpg

21:32:10 moiety: bounce: i believe i would though

21:32:14 KRS-One: heh

21:37:05 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller a production guide ?

21:37:57 mircea_popescu: aww poor happy, has to wear freezer bag shoes now ;/

21:39:34 moiety: lol http://i.imgur.com/3CILnz4.jpg

21:39:37 mircea_popescu: cads: hey guys, where should I learn marketing? << for srsly.

21:39:40 moiety: ok i promise to refrain

21:40:12 cads: mircea_popescu: I have all the marketing acumen of an aspergers kid.

21:40:40 cads: note how the idea that I compile a list of companies that might need my services and cold call them was like this huge epiphany for me :)

21:40:42 mircea_popescu: it shows. but srsly, it's a pretty large topic.

21:40:48 mircea_popescu: what are you doing even ? saas ?

21:41:04 cads: prototyping as a service

21:41:15 mircea_popescu: you don't coldcall something like that.

21:41:24 mircea_popescu: you ask your previous custom to refer new custom.

21:41:42 mircea_popescu: "Hey, we're looking to expand, can you think of anyone who could use our services ?"

21:42:07 ThickAsThieves: [ATC Mined] ATC Mined (to date): 13019648 Total ATC (to be mined): 268435456 % Mined of Total: 4.85

21:42:33 mircea_popescu: check that out, ThickAsThieves finally figured how to run a client for atc :D

21:42:38 ThickAsThieves: not me

21:42:42 mircea_popescu: a ok

21:42:45 ThickAsThieves: in #altcoin

21:42:50 ThickAsThieves: they ar emaking atc bot stuffs

21:43:10 mircea_popescu: cool!

21:43:37 mircea_popescu: i'm kinda curious what happens should cads coldcall some random doods and then proceed to "get someone medium level on the phone and then explain something like"

21:43:51 ThickAsThieves: hehe

21:43:52 mircea_popescu: should be a webcast. i'm sorry i said anytihing even.

21:43:57 ThickAsThieves: referrals are best

21:44:12 ThickAsThieves: if you wanna reach out, find the most appropriate venues

21:44:16 ThickAsThieves: (not the phone)

21:44:24 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 what decent size budget when his entire line is like 20k a year ?

21:44:29 mircea_popescu: that's basically...steaks.

21:44:59 punkman: cads, you get my pm?

21:45:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves incidentally, best fun i ever had in boston was the day i decided ima coldcall small publishers for my book.

21:45:37 mircea_popescu: turns out buncha eager shaved beavers work for low end publishing houses in 2000s boston. i ended up with many new friends.

21:45:41 cads: mircea_popescu: I'm thinking it'll be fun

21:46:07 cads: oh hey, yeah

21:46:17 ThickAsThieves: finding a book publisher isnt easy, so i can see phone calling being a method of you dont have connections

21:46:17 cads: I could always seduce the secretaries as I went along

21:46:19 mircea_popescu: cads only if you're the sort of type that enjoys failing in a humiliating manner

21:46:26 mircea_popescu: which you only actually comprehend months after the event.

21:46:28 ThickAsThieves: finding a book PRINTER aint much easier

21:46:37 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i didn't phonecall. i inperson called.

21:46:38 cads: mircea_popescu: welcome to my life!

21:46:41 ThickAsThieves: ah

21:47:50 ThickAsThieves: Google Apps is trying so hard to purge their grandfathered free users

21:47:58 mircea_popescu: and secretaries you don't seduce. they're always busy at work.

21:48:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.06539228 = 0.9155 BTC [-] {3}

21:48:10 ThickAsThieves: in a couple weeks i'll surely have former clients calling me

21:48:16 mircea_popescu: 5th wheel intern-ish girlies without clear responsibilities, which'd be the ones answering to a call like that, those you can seduce.

21:48:24 cads: really I know if we just go to a trade show and knock some people unconscious with our sturdy ass prototypes, we'll come away with at least people we can talk to without 99.999% failure

21:48:28 mircea_popescu: the rough equivalent being the it corp dudes that go to check out the babes at it conferences.

21:48:42 mircea_popescu: http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/13/booth-babes-dont-convert/

21:48:43 ozbot: Booth Babes Don’t Work | TechCrunch

21:48:46 mircea_popescu: that guy rants about them.

21:49:01 mircea_popescu: course in typical nerd fashion he misrepresents what happened, but hey.

21:49:12 ThickAsThieves: they should try booth whores

21:49:16 ThickAsThieves: might work better

21:49:24 cads: blah I'm going to read that article by extrapolating it from its title

21:49:47 cads: nice article, doesn't surprise me

21:50:00 mircea_popescu: that's because you equally don't have a clue :)

21:50:56 cads: yeah my conference experience is limited to math conferences

21:51:15 ThickAsThieves: most conferences are scams

21:51:22 cads: where 90% of the crowd would probably kill to have booth babes

21:51:35 mircea_popescu: lmao

21:51:39 mircea_popescu: so why not get some booth babes ?

21:51:50 ThickAsThieves: who will talk to them to hire them?

21:51:51 mircea_popescu: how hard can it fucking be, freakin campuses.

21:51:56 mircea_popescu: o that. myeah.

21:52:15 mircea_popescu: "you" can have a girl hang around the whole day for the cost of two beers, except not YOU.

21:52:29 cads: lol, maybe a student organized math conference with cute undegrad booth babes is in order

21:53:04 mircea_popescu: cads do this as a power play. it's what i'd do if i were somehow inexplicably interested in math academia.

21:53:12 cads: the AMA and university bodies and others that organize math conferences tend to be way to conservative to take that as anything other than a joke

21:53:26 mircea_popescu: get the hottest 12 chicks to boothbabe topless, only invite to present those professors who you owe favours to.

21:53:36 mircea_popescu: kick out the dinosaurs, humiliatingly so.

21:53:44 mircea_popescu: before you know it, you now control peer review in your field.

21:54:21 mircea_popescu: basically, always and everywhere take THEM as the joke, see how long they last.

21:54:34 mircea_popescu: not that hard rly.

21:55:06 cads: I'd be known as that mathematician that hasn't done any actual math, but has a harem of booth babes and has pushed forward the field into the next millenium.

21:55:15 mircea_popescu: sound familiar ? :D

21:55:45 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea how would one use airgapping in production?

21:56:10 thestringpuller: would be a neat guide since I have yet to find a way to do it practically for something in production

21:56:11 cads: Other mathematicians that would publish with me would eventually measure themselves according to their Cads number.

21:56:16 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller well that general question has been answered in the general as best it could on the post man.

21:56:24 mike_c: how can i airgap my web server?

21:56:30 mircea_popescu: to actually implement it you hire someone to do it you know ?

21:56:45 mircea_popescu: you're asking "so how do i build my house". well... hire an architect ?

21:56:47 cads: the cads number - the number of times you've come up with a math breakthrough while recieving fellatio from one of my booth babes

21:57:14 mircea_popescu: cads to quote diogenes, if only it were that easy.

21:57:19 thestringpuller: I'm more asking "how do I learn to build a house" don't say "stay in schoo"

21:57:32 mircea_popescu: well what would i say ;/

21:57:43 thestringpuller: :D

21:58:36 cads: airgapping bothers me, but the way I'd use it is as a fully offline reference system

21:59:00 mircea_popescu: but the man doth have a point. i find it shocking that us pretend-academia will offer "women's studies" shit about that twerking girl, but there's no actual airgapping programme anywhere.

21:59:09 cads: systems goes online once in its life to acquire the required reference materials, and then gets all its wireless adaptors removed

21:59:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0444 = 0.222 BTC [+]

21:59:30 mircea_popescu: cads that's airbandaided.

21:59:48 thestringpuller: how else would the college derp get laid without a women studies class?

22:00:13 bounce: "arrange things such that sensitive stuff is offline as much as possible"

22:00:22 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:hourly from the get-go just doesnt work << it does work in some fields. lawyers are the typical usecase, but also many high-demand few specialist engineering fields. you pay the hourly rate to qualify yourself as an actual customer

22:00:27 mircea_popescu: rather than random schmoe bored online.

22:00:30 bounce: some jugging around with public key crypto goes a ways there

22:00:34 cads: mircea_popescu: I know there's a military handbook that describes design of airgapped systems (the red/black system design philosophy)

22:00:42 mircea_popescu: cads sure.

22:01:15 cads: such a traditional system might still use punch cards to transfer data from the black to the red system

22:02:10 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:trying to "play" it to what you think the client will accept << what the fuck self-sabotaging second guessing bullshit is this, seriously! bejaysus.

22:02:38 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/cum-iti-negociezi-salariul/

22:02:43 mircea_popescu: this should be translated to english

22:03:12 bounce: depends. if you do an automated transcription of ethernet frames to punch tape and back again, you don't really have an air gap. just like putting a wireless hop in the network to have an "air gap" doesn't really work.

22:03:22 mircea_popescu: ^

22:04:31 bounce: ISTR the cacert people had a description up of how they did it: serial cable to the box with the signing key and a custom protocol that only understood signing requests and returned signed certificates, no other connection to anything whatsoever.

22:04:57 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/

22:05:01 ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June

22:05:06 mircea_popescu: there's no way this is right

22:05:07 bounce: that still depends on the front making intelligent decisions as to what to sign, but, you know...

22:05:10 ThickAsThieves: the self-sabotaging of that nature probly is an american cultural thingy

22:05:31 ThickAsThieves: customer always right, every service person is your bitch

22:05:34 ThickAsThieves: stuff like that

22:05:53 ThickAsThieves: yes hourly does indeed work out fine in higher-paying fields

22:06:20 ThickAsThieves: but i do question why it is more accepted, other than people are more loose with their money

22:06:34 ThickAsThieves: even lawyers want a retainer anyway

22:06:37 ThickAsThieves: not THAT different

22:06:37 mircea_popescu: because you have to establish yourself to the provider, not the other way around.

22:06:37 cads: bounce: hum, I'd like to read that document

22:06:57 bounce: been years since I'd seen it. probably somewhere up at cacert.org

22:07:14 mircea_popescu: fast food chains compete for customers. rich people compete for seats at the hot club.

22:07:18 ThickAsThieves: yes but ive never felt more cheesed for my hourly payout than with a lawyer

22:07:21 mircea_popescu: ever saw those queues in front of major clubs ?

22:07:24 cads: what I recall was that these punched cards were transfered over by humans, but I remember nothing of how they'd use that to prevent arbitrary content from entering the red system

22:07:39 ThickAsThieves: my last one still hasnt sent an invoice of any kind, after many requests

22:07:50 ThickAsThieves: but was quick to tell me the retainer was up

22:07:53 ThickAsThieves: and that i owed

22:08:00 cads: my source material is probably the wikipedia article on the military design document I mentioned earlier, instead of the actual document

22:08:02 ThickAsThieves: nigga wont show me

22:08:12 ThickAsThieves: cuz i know he's making it up

22:08:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0646 = 0.1292 BTC [-]

22:08:33 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if he's reading this

22:08:34 ThickAsThieves: hehe

22:09:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.06388734 = 1.5972 BTC [-] {9}

22:09:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves sue him.

22:09:43 benkay: make him present his derriere before your new lawyer

22:09:45 ThickAsThieves: i just might, would be nice to get the damn bill first...

22:09:54 mike_c: <mircea_popescu> http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/ << i agree, but a lot of volatility right now. it could bounce below.

22:09:58 ThickAsThieves: google apps is fucking with me for real now

22:09:59 mircea_popescu: cads diametric you two should joint or several work out something i can ipo.

22:10:14 ThickAsThieves: i already followed their instructions to activate the accounts the wanna shut down

22:10:18 mircea_popescu: mike_c considering how it bounced right off 500...

22:10:21 ThickAsThieves: and now they say i havent done it yet

22:10:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00094654 = 15.9965 BTC [+] {2}

22:10:29 mircea_popescu: another 25% seems quite outlandish in my head.

22:10:55 mike_c: yeah, i hope you are right (i am in on that bet).

22:10:57 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves prolly have to move it on punched paper acroiss airgap

22:11:25 ThickAsThieves: meh, for tomorrow, for now, off to the rap show!

22:12:04 cads: bruce schneir described the airgapping "effort" he was using to research the NSA papers and write the articles reviewing them.

22:12:17 mircea_popescu: cads you mean bnc connector ? or is there some diff ?

22:12:33 cads: which consisted of a brand new laptop that had never been connected to the internet, and a thumbdrive

22:12:56 cads: and... I'm hoping he really did something better than i'm thinking

22:13:18 bounce: that means something like linux or a *BSD is Right Out because... those come FROM the internet!!1!

22:14:01 moiety: 22:47 <mircea_popescu> and secretaries you don't seduce. they're always busy at work. << a good secretary can't be seduced. this is true. however, also means loyalty.

22:14:29 cads: actually

22:14:31 cads: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/10/air_gaps.html

22:14:32 ozbot: Schneier on Security: Air Gaps

22:14:56 cads: I'm being more pessimistic than necessary - his advice is actually about as decent as you can get

22:15:10 cads: for example use read only cdrs to dump data into the machine

22:15:39 cads: I don't like that he suggests a usb key, because usb keys have been penetrated before

22:16:07 bounce: wipe it and format it on a linux machine

22:16:19 bounce: (or anything but a windows machine, really)

22:16:22 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/why-i-suspect-schneier-is-an-us-agent/ cads mdear.

22:16:23 ozbot: Why I suspect Schneier is an US agent. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

22:16:26 cads: "Malware can silently write data to a USB stick, but it can't spin the CD-R up to 1000 rpm without your noticing. "

22:16:37 mircea_popescu: that thing is beyond ludicrous.

22:17:07 cads: haha, I suspect that too

22:18:03 bounce: well, the sentiment is sensible enough: minimise infection vectors, build in barriers and things that might tip you off

22:18:14 mircea_popescu: jurov "In this paper we will describe some of the shortcomings and suggest solution"

22:18:16 mircea_popescu: needs proofread.

22:18:28 bounce: the execution in the context of stupidly complex machinery a bit less so

22:18:40 jurov: mircea_popescu: ?

22:18:55 mircea_popescu: earlier link ou dropped from your hackathon thing ?

22:19:03 cads: mircea_popescu: but what prominent security expert is _not_ under reasonable suspicion of being a government agent?

22:19:11 mircea_popescu: plenty.

22:19:24 jurov: ah that

22:19:41 jurov: http://explo.yt/post/2014/02/26/Bruce-Schneier-passwords-fail my take on his other advice

22:19:42 ozbot: Bruce Schneier passwords fail - serialized delusions

22:20:12 cads: yeah, I suddenly want to read some more criticisms

22:21:11 cads: the suggestions he gives for airgaps would not protect against the kind of measures the NSA is claimed to be able to take

22:21:33 mircea_popescu: which is precisely why he makes the sort of cargo cult suggestions he does make.

22:22:25 cads: mircea_popescu: what are the odds you put on Snowden himself being a US agent?

22:22:52 bounce: wonder how hard it is to TEMPEST-proof a laptop. if a can of metallic paint to the inside of the shell is enough that should be a nice enough niche earner

22:22:54 mircea_popescu: nil.

22:23:16 mircea_popescu: bounce or make a nice al case :p

22:23:24 cads: I think that the capabilities being divulged are too over the top and being divulged in a way engineered to make the vast majority of people accept them.

22:24:12 mircea_popescu: there's a difference between snowden and "what the guardian represents".

22:24:20 mircea_popescu: were you asking about the latter ?

22:24:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.0009449 = 37.7488 BTC [-] {2}

22:25:34 cads: snowden's revalations have continued to detail a number of really extensive cyber capabilities that the NSA has

22:25:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1292 @ 0.00094275 = 1.218 BTC [-]

22:26:05 cads: including stuff that the media has spun as "the ability to store all the transfers on the internet for a whole 4 day review period"

22:26:10 mircea_popescu: did you read the actual leaks

22:26:14 cads: no

22:26:17 mircea_popescu: or 2nd and 3rd hand commentary by us propaganda sources?

22:26:23 mircea_popescu: then what are you talking about.

22:30:56 cads: I mean, you're familiar that QUANTUM is allegedly a massive attack and risk mitigation suite with a huge encyclopedia of attacks and expert systems for deploying them. And that other aspects of the tailored access unit have allegedly done such things as pushing backdoors into cryptoprotocols.

22:32:37 mircea_popescu: the latter claim is uncontroversial.

22:32:51 mircea_popescu: kinda the reason why the rsa corp is going the way of cisco.

22:33:03 cads: the way it's being covered just seems suspicios - the technologies are made to sound super duper scary, almost unimaginable, and nobody I've read is writing any serious counterplans

22:33:48 cads: and now, even with the revelations, normal people are even _less_ likely to want to imagine their capabilities and how to fight them

22:34:00 mircea_popescu: the counterplan is quite obvious : https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/447044579049873408

22:35:55 turbo_ac100: ;;gpg eregister turbo_ac100 32CCD4DEC831411C

22:35:57 gribble: Request successful for user turbo_ac100, hostmask turbo_ac100!~turbo@port-92-206-246-199.dynamic.qsc.de. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/32CCD4DEC831411C

22:36:12 BingoBoingo: I wonder if reutereEmily is going to cover the NeoBee fiasco

22:36:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo she kinda did just disappear huh

22:36:34 mircea_popescu: i guess fell down the reading rabbit hole

22:36:49 cads: so one hypothesis is that there's a body of people that had this information made up to some extent, at the very least glorifying the capabilities and making them seem starkly unopposeable.

22:37:01 cads: Nowhere do we see documents on what the NSA percieved to be a serious threat!

22:37:13 cads: what scares the NSA?

22:37:20 cads: or the people behind it?

22:37:25 cads: it's not in the documents

22:37:32 bounce: that with tweets maxing at 160 chars and irc messages at a little more, wouldn't it make sense for ozbot to special-case twitter.com/.../status/... and include the actual tweet?

22:37:41 BingoBoingo: Possibly. She has yet to tweet this month, and seemed rather interested in the topic. This reading thing is a hell of a drug

22:37:43 cads: maybe the agency doesn't know itself well enough to imagine it has _any_ fears

22:38:07 cads: but more likely those documents simply didn't make it into the package snowden has revealed

22:38:10 Duffer1: cads what scares the NSA? >> any entity that could threaten its funding

22:38:42 cads: I think it's reasonable that they would have made study of factors that could legitimately destabilize them, and come up with ways to counter.

22:38:46 cads: and where are those studies?

22:39:10 cads: I would imagine those would be the first to be released if snowden had them, and was hardcore

22:39:42 turbo_ac100: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:b08a40e815e8a29bae955ebfa66c2c032868815a12a6ddf38b15e480

22:39:43 gribble: Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user turbo_ac100 with key 32CCD4DEC831411C

22:39:45 cads: after building the case that they're fucking everyone, he would have been like "but this. This is what they really don't want you to see"

22:39:52 Duffer1: strategies to counter congress likely weren't as available as the rest of snowden's material

22:40:49 cads: that's highly likely, and it would be nice if someone acknowledged the documents snowden didn't manage to get

22:40:54 mike_c: countering congress is easy. ask j edgar

22:41:01 Duffer1: though given clappers' behavior it's not like we even need snowden to know such material exists

22:41:17 moiety: BingoBoingo: can we play chess tomorrow or soon? preferrably after you have had a ton of vodka

22:41:45 mircea_popescu: bounce this is a good point actually.

22:42:12 mircea_popescu: cads snowden was a contractor. he didn't have access to the strategic bundle.

22:42:49 BingoBoingo: moiety: Possibly

22:43:06 moiety: can anyone explain to me how a self-confessed "indoor cat" like snowden ended up with a model gf? im suspicious of this

22:43:21 moiety: possibly is good enough for me :D

22:45:47 turbo_ac100: I have a different user ID on the keyserver and eregistered here. Matters?

22:47:37 cads: mircea_popescu: also I know you don't like schneier, but for a while he had his "NSA Exploit of the day" that was a near daily analysis of a new exploit from his researches of the leaked documents - here he apparently concludes that with basically saying, I've shown you all these exploits. Now we need to come up with ways to defend against them because not only the NSA will use them, but also criminals and other countries

22:48:18 asciilifeform: cads: are you familiar with the 'two NSAs' hypothesis?

22:48:19 bounce: "criminals and other countries"

22:49:26 cads: more recently he covered something called MYSTIC, which is a system that can "record 100% of a nation's phone calls"

22:50:16 asciilifeform: phone should be regarded as something like plaintext email.

22:50:17 cads: it's kinda like he's playing some kind of theatre, dazzling and shocking us with these capabilities, then here and there dropping a paragraph about how we should do something against them

22:50:27 mircea_popescu: moiety i never saw his gf. pix ?

22:50:36 cads: never suggesting anything against it

22:50:40 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 not particularly.

22:51:20 mircea_popescu: cads wait, you doubting 100% of all plaintext phonecalls are being recorded ?

22:51:44 cads: no, not at all

22:51:54 mircea_popescu: i dun follow your argument then

22:52:12 bounce: too bad cryptophones et al are still too spendy

22:52:53 moiety: mircea_popescu: http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Lindsay-mills-cupcakes.jpg

22:52:55 turbo_ac100: kakobrekla: make my day :)!

22:53:03 cads: mircea_popescu: if he's an agent why talk about these capabilities? To brag. And more importantly to mislead and misinform.

22:53:25 moiety: http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/v8Ia1C08LqY/hqdefault.jpg

22:53:40 moiety: now explain how he met her?!

22:54:07 moiety: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8510/8520081840_cabe3ee1f4_z.jpg?from=http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8510/8520081840_cabe3ee1f4_z.jpg

22:54:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14008 @ 0.00094256 = 13.2034 BTC [-]

22:54:36 cads: when he covers a larger new outlet's story on the revelation of a new capability, he's always pointing out the technical ways in which the capabilities go further than the article explains

22:55:52 bounce: journos are not great at this tech thing

22:55:57 cads: so possibly he's doing us a favor by explaining the capabilities in more complete way

22:56:28 cads: even if he was an agent he could be reporting faithfully

22:56:47 cads: especially if someone else knows it's cooked up documents anyways

22:57:12 mircea_popescu: moiety she's not THAT hot is she ?

22:57:34 mircea_popescu: bounce maybe with s.nsa...

22:57:40 cads: everyone knows they're recording the phone calls, now everyone believes that they can only keep the phone calls for a month, that the program to do it is called MYSTIC, and that it hasn't been used against the US

22:58:00 cads: two of those three are probably false :D

22:58:05 mircea_popescu: moiety anyway, smart chicks dig famous underdogs.

22:58:23 mircea_popescu: cads he's just a random has-been talking about the topic of the moment, imo.

22:58:27 moiety: mircea_popescu: no but still, how did they meet? and she did know about what e was going to do, they left their home in may.

22:58:28 mircea_popescu: not much more not much less.

22:58:30 bounce: one of the reasons I bought a nokia e52 was because there was cryptophone source available that was supposed to work on that thing

22:58:39 bounce: then reality hit.

22:58:59 *: moiety has looked into es a lot

22:59:03 mircea_popescu: es ?

22:59:07 skinnkavaj: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=554902.0

22:59:08 ozbot: Why coinmarketcap.com got destroyed

22:59:17 moiety: edward snowden

22:59:24 wutwhutwut: http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/

22:59:25 ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June

22:59:39 mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj more like "because they fucked up a bitbet."

22:59:48 mircea_popescu: "then got banned by bitbet, then curtains."

23:00:15 mircea_popescu: moiety i imagine cupcake mantits met snowden the same way you met BingoBoingo

23:00:25 skinnkavaj: Stop trolling

23:00:30 mircea_popescu: not to imply anything about either your bra filling abilities or his bar hopping skills.

23:00:36 mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj i'm not trolling yo.

23:00:54 moiety: i dont even know how i ended up on that site. but im glad i met BingoBoingo

23:01:21 cads: anyways mircea_popescu I'm glad my argument for heavily doctored NSA papers is not strong. I saw similar arguments claiming the pentagon papers were exactly what the higher ups wanted released, nothing more, nothing less, and those arguments seem cranky

23:02:51 mircea_popescu: first line of damage control.

23:02:59 mircea_popescu: not so far off from claiming neobee floundered because mpex.

23:04:07 bounce: it's a valid concern, though. spy shops must be masters of misinformation.

23:05:22 cads: "obviously the corporate leaks were not done by the CEO" "But he's gotten great publicity!" "he's going to spend his life in jail" "yeah but he'll be a mover/shaker in the real world via his letters" "he hanged himself last night" "yeah but this was all of his plan so that now he can laugh at us and manipulate the stock market from Hell"

23:05:24 mircea_popescu: nsa is not a spy shop tho.

23:05:39 mircea_popescu: the us made the mistaken strategic decision to move from humint to sigint at the end of the cold war.

23:05:50 bounce: at the same time I find it hard to see what this leak could possibly achieve being misinformation. what would they steer us away from and how massive would that have to be?

23:05:59 mircea_popescu: the us humint was never any good, even at the height of the cold war they were more of a laughingstoc operationally,

23:06:12 mircea_popescu: rthe only difference betweenthem and the french being that the french had no money, either.

23:06:16 bounce: they're not a human spy shop, no. they do deal in information and so also in misinformation.

23:06:35 mircea_popescu: so basically think fat kid that's allowed in the sikrit fraternity because he lets everyone borrow the stuff his rich parents buy him

23:07:05 mircea_popescu: anyway : meanwhile things have deteriorated, and the us "spyshop" doesn't even count. it's in there in the 3rld world, between congo and indonesia or something

23:07:16 bounce: that more or less defines the us int'l relations, spyish or otherwise

23:07:29 mircea_popescu: i guess.

23:07:46 mircea_popescu: generally diplomacy by and large goes the way of spyshop-y.

23:09:29 cads: is it really hard to believe that they'd reveal some version of their capabilities knowing that fear and uncertainty would actually legitimize those practices?

23:09:53 bounce: I forget whose documentary it was where some cia operative went "well we just have to step into all these messes you lot (==all the world) keep on being in" -- meaning it seriously and conveniently turning a blind eye to the glaring fact it's the us, more specifically the cia, that's been busy causing the messes in the first place

23:09:54 mircea_popescu: cads this sort of thinking is fed by watching movies and faping on reddit.

23:10:17 mircea_popescu: on the actual ground, the us has serious problems hiring people who don't spend most of their time wondering if "deep down" theyt're really women or not.

23:10:26 mircea_popescu: shit bullet as asciilifeform;d say.

23:10:45 cads: mircea_popescu: touche

23:11:03 mircea_popescu: also, sargent is not allowed to beat recruits

23:11:19 mircea_popescu: i have no idea how you imagine someone with the capability of running an actual spyshop could be lured to work for the us

23:11:27 mircea_popescu: when there's so many so very much better offers o nthe table.

23:11:47 bounce: the us fan club named nato and the inner "five eyes" circle keeps on fapping on all that wonderful computer-y stuff nsa and gchq must shirley have

23:12:00 mircea_popescu: you know, brain surgeon ain't likely to work for the cockroach infested hospital. because he prefers working with people he respects,

23:12:09 mircea_popescu: and who respect themselves enough not to live in the cockroach trap.

23:12:46 moiety: lol shit bullet is a new one on me

23:13:04 bounce: so who's got good or at least respectable humint going on these days?

23:14:17 mircea_popescu: china russia israel korea brazil more or less in order

23:16:01 bounce: not a european country among them. huh.

23:16:03 mike_c: um, which korea?

23:16:15 mircea_popescu: bounce watch the influence spheres move as a result.

23:16:21 mircea_popescu: mike_c the 2nd best one :p

23:16:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.062009 = 0.124 BTC [-]

23:16:32 cads: south?

23:16:37 cazalla: north korea is best korea

23:16:53 cads: their emperor is a God!

23:17:16 mike_c: north korea isn't good at anything except extorting money from the us.

23:17:26 bounce: not sure if it's a cause or an effect, but the shifting is happening, yes

23:17:30 mircea_popescu: and inventing hairdos

23:17:42 cads: and their economy is so productive.

23:17:46 mike_c: and applying makeup to their soldiers

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: mike_c you seen that pic ?

23:17:54 bounce: didn't they run their own usd presses?

23:17:57 mike_c: yeah :)

23:18:01 cads: lol

23:18:18 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/hair-the-musical/ epic fucking shit.

23:18:18 ozbot: Hair, the musical pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

23:18:44 mike_c: their faces would glow in the dark

23:20:40 asciilifeform: the interesting thing is that nsa-as-we-know-it, but with a pill against modern crypto hidden in an 'indiana jones'-style vault, would scarcely be distinguishable from what we can now see

23:20:53 asciilifeform: see winston churchill and the demolition of coventry.

23:21:13 asciilifeform: it's a pill that would be kept in reserve for some unspecified 'dire times' that never come - as nukes are

23:21:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the average cunt with a hidden angler fish right under the flesh would be also indistinguishable from the average cunt.

23:21:34 asciilifeform: because you can only really use it once.

23:21:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00094718 = 2.4627 BTC [+]

23:22:12 mircea_popescu: there's a romaina guy that did extensive "research" on this topic, his name was lucian blaga

23:22:36 mircea_popescu: one of his lines is meanwhile common cultural cliche in romanian, "sa nu strivim corola the minuni a lumii"

23:22:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00094653 = 20.1611 BTC [-] {2}

23:22:52 mircea_popescu: something like "let us not dispell the world's corolla of wonder"

23:23:04 asciilifeform: lol

23:23:18 asciilifeform: which topic? cunt cum angler-fish?

23:23:18 mircea_popescu: it's mostly used derrisively to bother anticultural and antiintellectual lines

23:23:31 mircea_popescu: (who aren't likely to get the reference or have read the guy's work)

23:23:38 mircea_popescu: no, he was a philosopher, theory of knowledge.

23:24:03 cads: asciilifeform: is that the "two NSAs hypothesis"?

23:24:05 mircea_popescu: 1956 nobel prize nominee etc

23:24:24 mircea_popescu: (communists protested the nomination)

23:24:32 asciilifeform: cads: the two-nsa hypothesis is that the americans have a stable of folks with brains squirreled away somewhere

23:24:55 asciilifeform: it's mostly a product of my diseased imagination, but has some grounding in soviet history

23:25:16 cads: ... err, "squirreled away"?

23:25:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, is there anything in russian by the guy ?

23:25:28 asciilifeform: nsa writes crapware for winblows, 'meta-nsa' then would do something interesting.

23:25:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rezun (pseudonym suvorov) and his histories of gru, which he ran away from

23:25:54 cads: this would be the "strategic level" that mircea_popescu alluded to

23:26:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean by lucian blaga

23:26:12 asciilifeform: not that i know of

23:26:15 mircea_popescu: i can't conveniently search for the shit, no good kbd

23:26:20 cads: ie, we just saw leaks from the software development department

23:26:30 cads: we didn't see leaks from the operations and strategy department

23:27:01 asciilifeform: cads: likewise no leaks from the math farms.

23:27:09 cads: right!

23:27:15 mircea_popescu: there's a german Peter Sragher version which is pretty decent. but otherwise the guy seems an incredibly well kept secret. funny how that works.

23:27:33 asciilifeform: these people claim (not entirely implausible) to be the largest employer of math phd types in the usa

23:27:52 asciilifeform: what, if anything, they have to show for it, is another matter

23:27:53 mircea_popescu: well, academia is hte largest, but ohter than that as a single entity, i believe it.

23:28:24 cads: all those mathematicians and they're still a laughingstock to mircea_popescu

23:28:54 mircea_popescu: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Die-luziferische-Erkenntnis-Lucian-Blaga/dp/3643504055

23:29:00 asciilifeform: personally i've no evidence in favour or against the 'they've got the pill and are sitting on it' hypothesis

23:29:05 cads: I seriously doubt either of the koreas have higher technical capalities

23:29:06 ozbot: Die luziferische Erkenntnis: Amazon.co.uk: Lucian Blaga, Rainer Schubert: Books

23:29:09 mircea_popescu: cads understand that a spyshop is not math kids.

23:29:27 mircea_popescu: if you were a party organiser and all you had to show me were math wallflowers i'd equally point and laugh at you.

23:29:29 turbo_ac100: ;;later tell kakobrekla im turbo_ac100 on otc now.

23:29:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:29:49 mircea_popescu: technical capabilities are not the question.

23:29:55 cads: free as the north one is to grant the humint operators the latitude needed to implement every single tactic from their wet dreams

23:30:08 mircea_popescu: zee germanz had much better "technical capabilities" than their intellectual, strategic and ultimately human capabilities.

23:30:20 mircea_popescu: what do you think sunk hitler, technological inferiority ? puhleaze.

23:30:47 mircea_popescu: cads that's nonsense, the north korea is much less free than the average. in fact, about as unfree as the us.

23:30:56 mircea_popescu: if you actually bother looking at the facts, the two regimes are scarcely different.

23:31:03 cads: haha, all I know about what sunk the germans I learned from a fictional account of breaking the Enigma machine

23:31:18 cads: ie, fiction - apparently we were dycyphering everything

23:31:36 cads: but using it in a way such that they could not deduce that we were decyphering everything

23:31:41 bounce: the germans had some good cryptologists too. funny how you never hear about them.

23:31:42 cads: maybe that happened during part of it

23:31:50 cads: yeah

23:32:04 cads: I can't imagine we didn't enjoy the exact same treatment

23:32:04 mircea_popescu: bounce you know how wikipedia-history based on press-narratives works.

23:32:27 cads: haha, the book I refer to was neal stephenson's cryptonomicon

23:32:28 cads: soooo

23:32:40 cads: I'm not even /claiming/ any kind of historical knowledge :)

23:32:51 asciilifeform: anyone who had the misfortune of attending u.s. schools is in for a little mindfuck - the evidence that sk (at the behest of its puppeteer across the ocean) started the korean war is, imho, convincing.

23:32:53 mircea_popescu: well i wasn't talking of you strictly :[

23:32:55 mircea_popescu: :p*

23:32:58 cads: usually I'm less clueless than that but I'll at least not argue based on it :)

23:33:07 bounce: esp. going on the end they also put a lot of faith in "wonder weapons", "victory weapons", and such. bit of a parallel with the US, that

23:33:28 mircea_popescu: bounce dreaming is the last refuge of the defeated. you know who else did it ?

23:33:39 mircea_popescu: the paleologoi. christ himself, you see, was going to come lift the siege.

23:33:39 asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of translating the russian expression for these - 'wonderwaffles'

23:33:52 asciilifeform: ('wunderwaffe' original)

23:34:02 mircea_popescu: waffe doesn't mean waffle lmao

23:34:09 asciilifeform: naturally.

23:34:16 mircea_popescu: Der Wafflen SS!

23:34:38 asciilifeform: it's a derisive poke

23:34:39 mircea_popescu: god help you if you bring any outside syrups

23:34:56 bounce: you know, it's not even so much wikipedia as some good old fashioned propaganda that put bletchley park on such a socket

23:35:12 asciilifeform: 'вундервафля'

23:35:27 bounce: could be something to do with the shameful treatment of turing, too, though. (including the recent "rehabilitation" thing)

23:35:36 mircea_popescu: bounce i'd say it's uncontroversial that they did a lot of very good work. the problem with the propapress -> wikipedia -> reddit machine oif nonthink is that it flattens alternatives

23:35:46 cads: bounce: yeah, now I wonder about the enemy's opposing cryptoparks

23:35:47 mircea_popescu: very totalitarian system. soon enouhg ALL THERE IS is X topic.

23:36:09 bounce: they did do a lot of good work, but they certainly weren't the only ones

23:36:13 cads: bounce: and whether they had attacks against our techs

23:36:14 mircea_popescu: exactly.

23:36:22 asciilifeform: https://www.google.com/search?q=вундервафля&source=lnms&tbm=isch

23:36:26 cads: I'm sure they did but I've heard nary a one

23:37:52 bounce: paleologoi doesn't light a bulb nor produces comprehensible search results. colour me uninformed.

23:38:16 cads: dat moment when you realize you suddenly need to know a lot more about what was going in and around some historical event.

23:38:36 cads: bounce: I think that was his point

23:44:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00094753 = 21.1299 BTC [+] {2}

23:49:16 asciilifeform: handbook that describes design of airgapped systems (the red/black system design philosophy) << read the crap. red/black has nothing to do with airgaps, for the most part.

23:49:46 asciilifeform: it is mainly about separating wiring for 'red' (plaintext that must not leave) and 'black' ciphertext that can go outside the walls

23:49:55 asciilifeform: incl. power supplies

23:50:22 asciilifeform: everyone's seen the photos of the general sitting next to two keyboards, two monitors, etc.

23:50:47 asciilifeform: but this is not mandatory - there are plenty of gadgets with 'red' and 'black' connectors on one panel

23:50:56 asciilifeform: (trivial example: anything that enciphers/deciphers)

23:52:06 asciilifeform: now, these gadgets are blessed by a priest, sprinkled with holy water before deployment, etc.

23:52:24 asciilifeform: whether this has anything to do with practical security is a puzzle for students of u.s. bureaucracy.

23:53:23 asciilifeform: usb keys have been penetrated before << this refers to various experiments where you re-flash the microcontroller inside a usb drive, to do various useful things.

23:54:03 asciilifeform: i've tried this personally - it works. (you need a drive for which either docs or some reverse-engineerable flash diddler from the factory are available.)

23:54:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.05600001 = 0.28 BTC [-]

23:54:27 bounce: not just that. there's been cases where the gold key image had some virus or other, causing $largenum of usb keys to ship that way from factory

23:54:54 mike_c: no reason cardano wouldn't be susceptible to that is there?

23:55:02 asciilifeform: and then there's the winblows-specific crap, which i regard as uninteresting:

23:55:02 asciilifeform: http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/plug-and-prey-malicious-usb-devices

23:55:04 ozbot: Plug and Prey: Malicious USB Devices

23:55:43 asciilifeform: mike_c: cardano emulates a usb drive, when connected to pc.

23:55:54 mircea_popescu: it's not actually reflashable is it ?

23:56:03 asciilifeform: not from usb.

23:56:23 asciilifeform: but it is worth pointing out that many, if not most, usb gadgets - are.

23:56:56 asciilifeform: incidentally, this is one of the reasons it took me so long to find an appropriate micro for cardano

23:57:05 bounce: do cheap usb keys do any wear leveling, like ssds do?

23:57:08 asciilifeform: most of the available ones are designed to be reflashed via usb

23:57:20 mircea_popescu: myeah

23:57:21 asciilifeform: bounce: they do.

23:58:44 bounce: the keys I have here are all well before the large leaps around the time of the barefoot controller. perhaps should replace a few. then again, I'd get inferior flash.

23:59:13 asciilifeform: generally, the newer the 'flash', the more threadbare the actual eeprom cells

23:59:31 asciilifeform: in the sense that a recent 'ssd' would barely last a few thousand write cycles without leveling.

23:59:49 bounce: right. so ideally would want a new controller with old chips

23:59:50 asciilifeform: this subject has been beaten to death in engineering literature