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Transcript for 02-08-2015, 1076 lines:

00:00:02 trinque: I shall do neither.

00:00:05 kakobrekla: ftr, toshi (postgres) currently has 488 gb database for the 30 or so gigs of blockchain

00:00:07 gernika: mircea_popescu Interesting. That's one thing you and Michael O. Church agree on.

00:00:12 ben_vulpes: 'twas a joke, joke only.

00:00:18 trinque: I know I know

00:00:22 mircea_popescu: gernika the difference being that he's poor.

00:00:27 kakobrekla: theres a reason for that.

00:00:28 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: ever run an 'abe'?

00:00:41 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla there maybe is or maybe is not.

00:00:42 kakobrekla: ben_vulpes sure, and a bunch of other explorers.

00:00:57 kakobrekla: some, not public.

00:01:09 ben_vulpes: which to avoid, which are not miserable?

00:01:11 mircea_popescu: having someone from here try it is still a great thing.

00:01:18 kakobrekla: they are all miserable.

00:01:28 ben_vulpes: o well then

00:01:31 trinque: I'll say writing deedbot- was highly instructive.

00:01:36 kakobrekla: but yeah stay away from abe

00:01:41 trinque: shinohai: ^^

00:01:47 ben_vulpes: why is abe so bad?

00:01:57 kakobrekla: last i checked, years ago, that was a piece of spaghetti pythons that broke weekly

00:02:07 ben_vulpes: aside from "can't serve while indexing lol"?

00:02:54 shinohai: abe sucks, i'd rather rebuild bitpay insight -css

00:02:56 *: ben_vulpes kicked off its indexer this morning

00:03:11 ben_vulpes: ah jesus insight is a shitshow that much i know from pissing on the fence in question

00:04:12 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: 'toshi' creates its db from a rails schema iirc, no surprise that it's 10x blockchain size

00:04:23 ben_vulpes: but transaction indexing etc should take *that* much space...

00:04:24 shinohai: then i have no framework

00:04:34 kakobrekla: ben_vulpes others arent that much smaller

00:04:40 shinohai: besies bitcoind output

00:05:27 gernika: mod6 asciilifeform fyi I just successfully built stator bitcoind on top of rotor. Gentoo inside Parallels. Needed trinque's patch.

00:05:29 kakobrekla: blockr was something like 200-300 gigs iirc

00:05:43 ben_vulpes: wow.

00:05:56 mircea_popescu: blocker's in past tense now ?

00:06:11 ben_vulpes: whence the extra data? most of the relationships should live in foreign keys.

00:06:14 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, there's a reason i keep saying plain html and db on disk and stuff

00:06:19 kakobrekla: sort of.

00:06:23 *: ben_vulpes off for a bit

00:06:25 mircea_popescu: exactly to piss on the face of all the "developer" kids with "ideas"

00:07:00 kakobrekla: plain html and db on disk and stuff < yes we want another duplicate of useless stuff stored in blockchain files

00:07:09 shinohai: You shouldn't trust developers tis true

00:07:10 mircea_popescu: yes. we do.

00:07:20 mircea_popescu: to replace the useless duplicate of all the shit in a ruby install.

00:07:34 trinque: the vast majority of websites out there should be this

00:07:36 mircea_popescu: if disks are gonna fill with rubbish, i want it to be my meaningless rubbish, not theirs.

00:07:39 shinohai: ruby is just as useless as java

00:07:40 trinque: how often do you publish vs read

00:08:05 mircea_popescu: trinque ill confess about quarterly i get an itch to convert fraudsters

00:08:18 trinque: people "MVC", then it's memcached this and redis that

00:08:23 trinque: mircea_popescu: I bet, perfect example

00:10:30 mircea_popescu: re that "academic" link earlier : wtf is WRONG with these people. i can not see a date onthe page.

00:10:40 mircea_popescu: what is the point of even fucking existing if one's going to be this dumb ?

00:10:51 mircea_popescu: what, they've not invented dating in their culture ? what is this, polinesia online ?

00:10:57 kakobrekla: i dont see why save all html files beforehand if you can just dumpblock on the fly, its a stupid operations it gets done fast.

00:11:00 mircea_popescu: fucking sumerians had it, it's not even european.

00:11:46 kakobrekla: its not like you are querying for abalance of an address.

00:12:43 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you know nothing prevents you from doing even the balance, in plain html.

00:13:20 mircea_popescu: suppose you accept a new block. now you do 1) list it in /blocks/ ; 2) iterate over all the txn it includes, list them in /txn/ ; 3) iterate over all addresses included, add and substract from /addresses/address.html

00:13:22 mircea_popescu: presto.

00:13:24 kakobrekla: well you will end up with 100gigs+ db or so. or unusably slow.

00:13:47 mircea_popescu: you end up with a pile of html files that would conceivably be smaller than the blockchain (no sigs)

00:15:09 mircea_popescu: (or larger, of course - html mark-up. but anyway)

00:15:19 kakobrekla: keeping all the balance for all the addresses wont be that small.

00:15:43 mircea_popescu: the balance of any address is a longint.

00:16:15 kakobrekla: number of tx * avg number of in/outputs = ?

00:17:10 mircea_popescu: you can trivially opt to "only list txn over X".

00:17:14 mircea_popescu: update the balance, but not list the txn.

00:18:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221499 << what "her" fucking choice ? since when it's her choice, have we EVER even seen a documented case of a female attacker ?

00:18:25 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 22:21:53; punkman: " the attacker is not able to forge new valid signatures, but Seifert’s attack allows the attacker to pass — with a certain probability — the signature verification step, for a message of her choice, by corrupting the public modulus"

00:25:26 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, maybe because in crypto the attacker is usually called Eve

00:25:44 mircea_popescu: unflattering as that may be

00:26:00 mircea_popescu: eve's like one of maybe five people in the jewish cannon i'd consider hanging with

00:26:23 Apocalyptic: (stems from "eavesdropping")

00:30:12 gernika: mod6 Built v0.5.4-TEST2 with rotor but can't run it on the system I built it on because: "-bash: ./bitcoind: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error." This is on gentoo built from stage3-i486-20150728.tar.bz2

00:32:00 trinque: gernika: anything interesting from dumpelf on the file?

00:32:34 gernika: trinque: Don't think so: ./bitcoind: file format elf64-x86-64

00:33:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00050864 = 13.2246 BTC [+]

00:33:12 gernika: Not sure if I accidentally built a 32 bit gentoo or what...

00:34:31 gernika: objdump: ./bitcoind: not a dynamic object

00:34:31 mircea_popescu: it says it's 64

00:34:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you see any problem with me thinking https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ is basically retarded ?

00:38:35 gernika: Well shit. Somehow I built 64 bit binaries on a 32 bit install of gentoo.

00:39:00 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221623 << I made a point of hunting 1990's keys from universities to feed the Phuctor. Many were of short length. I though maybe they'd fall first and prime the beast, but...

00:39:00 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 23:40:28; mircea_popescu: 163 would imply a 512 bit key except iirc no key under 768 was even allowed ?

00:39:22 mircea_popescu: gernika it's a wonder they built, you had multilib installed for some reason ?

00:39:50 gernika: mircea_popescu Yeah I did.

00:39:57 gernika: Looks like

00:39:59 mircea_popescu: grats, i guess ? o.O

00:40:17 gernika: I guess I get to get more practice installing gentoo :)

00:40:26 mircea_popescu: you could just rebuild for your platform.

00:40:37 mircea_popescu: very few people still use 32bit, might be interesting test case.

00:40:46 gernika: I'll give that a shot

00:40:51 mircea_popescu: i dunno that any of the currently standing nodes are on 32 bit platforms

00:41:15 trinque: gernika: there are knobs in buildroot for that

00:41:28 trinque: and also in rotor.sh, every mention of 64 must change

00:42:08 mircea_popescu: "Note: I am well aware that dynamic documents are a huge, gaping, ugly hole in the digital imprimatur scheme. I have not expended a great deal of effort thinking about ways to better secure such documents; I'm sure this issue will be explored in detail"

00:42:42 mircea_popescu: aka "note : my idiocy falls apart at hte most cursory examination, but i am the sort of dumb schmuck that aims to insulate himself from this by waving hands and weaving words, rather than a thninking person"

00:42:46 mircea_popescu: meh.

00:43:28 mircea_popescu: and before anyone wants to tell me the author has five concubines gifted by from cornell west and is widely respected by robed pamplonocrats or w/e : i dun give a shit kthx.

01:03:27 TheNewDeal: if anyone is interested in taking the no side on this https://bitbet.us/bet/1153/btc-to-top-350-before-september/ . leave me a note and perhaps we can strike a deal

01:03:29 assbot: BitBet - BTC to top $350 before September :: 23.71 B (30%) on Yes, 54.46 B (70%) on No | closing in 1 week 1 day| weight: 21`395 (100`000 to 10`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1IcNWRU )

01:03:40 TheNewDeal: a new deal of sorts

01:07:52 TheNewDeal: I'm thinking of adding perhaps 2 days equivalent timeweight. Say weight it 21000, two days ago weight was 23600. I would accept your amount, and pay out on the timeweight two days prior, 23600. Terms negotiable

01:22:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40015 @ 0.00051334 = 20.5413 BTC [+] {3}

01:30:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221782 << my brain pulls its frequent trick; i distinctly recalled there being a point in that thing

01:30:33 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:34:46; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you see any problem with me thinking https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ is basically retarded ?

01:30:55 asciilifeform: (which was, that www makes things very easy for the censor, much easier at any rate than rounding up 10,000 books to burn)

01:31:11 asciilifeform: but it is buried in a pile of fuck-knows-what, yes

01:31:20 asciilifeform: (it got garbage-collected in my memory)

01:31:50 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221786 << no it is not 'a wonder' - it will build on a z80!!! cross-compiler, remember ?

01:31:50 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:39:22; mircea_popescu: gernika it's a wonder they built, you had multilib installed for some reason ?

01:32:00 asciilifeform: multilib not relevant!

01:32:14 asciilifeform: 'rotor' makes use of nothing other than the libs we include

01:33:17 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221769 << other than the polish chick (joana rutkowska [sp?]) - not known to me

01:33:17 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:18:25; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221499 << what "her" fucking choice ? since when it's her choice, have we EVER even seen a documented case of a female attacker ?

01:33:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221792 << as easy as setting up for 'arm' build, etc. change the knob.

01:33:46 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:37; mircea_popescu: very few people still use 32bit, might be interesting test case.

01:33:53 asciilifeform: get x86-32, mips, cray, whatever.

01:34:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221794 << danielpbarron's pogo, possibly

01:34:15 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:51; mircea_popescu: i dunno that any of the currently standing nodes are on 32 bit platforms

01:34:25 asciilifeform: (pogo is an arm32)

01:35:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221762 << store'em compressed

01:35:37 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:13:47; mircea_popescu: you end up with a pile of html files that would conceivably be smaller than the blockchain (no sigs)

01:35:38 scoopbot_revived: Scottish Bank, Police & Court Harass Bitcoin Trader, Conspire To Steal His Cash http://qntra.net/2015/08/scottish-bank-police-court-harass-bitcoin-trader-conspire-to-steal-his-cash/

01:36:53 asciilifeform: 'The cash was seized, pending an inquiry that was hampered by the individual?s initial refusal to provide any information about its source. Once the investigation was complete and no basis for forfeiting the cash had been established, it was handed back.' << ahahahaha

01:36:58 asciilifeform: 'handed back'

01:37:04 asciilifeform: just by asking nicely, aha

01:37:14 asciilifeform: no mention of legal fees, having to sit broke for months, etc

01:37:20 asciilifeform: and 'hampered by refusal'

01:42:22 asciilifeform: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2955572/italian-police-shutter-dark-web-marketplace.html << l0lz

01:42:24 assbot: Italian police shutter Dark Web marketplace | PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1N16dmg )

01:45:53 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 interestingly, incitatus synced and stayed synced today

01:45:53 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:45:59 asciilifeform: i'll leave it up, for now.

01:47:01 asciilifeform: dulap appears to have fallen into an nsa silent hole again...

01:47:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you still getting ^this on your nodes ?

01:54:42 decimation: asciilifeform: doesn't it seem more likely that there's something fucktarded about the sync code?

02:10:04 asciilifeform: decimation: no.

02:10:15 asciilifeform: decimation: i 'wiresharked' many hours of this.

02:10:45 asciilifeform: it is precisely as if someone were snipping out just the packets with useful payload, while leaving enough in place to leave the connection open.

02:11:18 asciilifeform: it also ~never~ happens between directly-connected nodes on my lan, for example.

02:47:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00050402 = 13.7597 BTC [-]

02:52:19 ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221623 << I made a point of hunting 1990's keys from universities to feed the Phuctor. Many were of short length. I though maybe they'd fall first and prime the beast, but... << bb you're awesome

02:52:19 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 23:40:28; mircea_popescu: 163 would imply a 512 bit key except iirc no key under 768 was even allowed ?

02:52:55 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> grats, i guess ? o.O << hyuuuuahahaha

02:54:45 ben_vulpes: <TheNewDeal> a new deal of sorts << i will give you points for this even if nobody else will

03:06:11 ben_vulpes: http://developersdevelope.rs/

03:06:11 assbot: Developers Developers ... ( http://bit.ly/1SSaIBo )

03:23:12 scoopbot_revived: Australian Faces 88 Charges Related To Darknet Child Pornography Sites http://qntra.net/2015/08/australian-faces-88-charges-related-to-darknet-child-pornography-sites/

03:33:22 decimation: http://www.techspot.com/article/1039-ten-years-intel-cpu-compared/page7.html < moore's law sample point "

03:33:23 assbot: Then and Now: Almost 10 Years of Intel CPUs Compared > Summing Up: Up to 11 Times the Performance - TechSpot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCPRlE )

03:33:25 decimation: The 4690K is just 32% faster than the 760 in Excel, 25% faster in 7-Zip and just 17% on average when comparing gaming performance."

03:34:24 decimation: granted, there are measurements that show more improvement, but 4 years and 45-22nm buys you as little as 17% improvement

03:50:55 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: pgp.mit.edu was a gold mine for academic keys they may not have made the transition to sks. I retrieved manually though by schoool.

03:51:47 decimation: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/31/weak-recovery-makes-for-wage-winners-and-losers.html " That's why many economists are scratching their heads after the latest quarterly data Friday showed that overall compensation in the three months ending in June inched up at the slowest pace since 1982. "

03:51:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCRu2Y )

04:02:50 decimation: http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Aspen-Colorado/ "Average price per square foot for Aspen CO was $909, an increase of 23% compared to the same period last year."

04:03:45 decimation: http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/11968-Southampton/ "Average price per square foot for homes in 11968 was $1,010, an increase of 81.7% compared to the same period last year. "

04:11:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.00051961 = 18.2383 BTC [+] {4}

04:14:24 decimation: http://woodbury-house.com/the-contemporary-art-market-trends-january-2015/ "Over the last ten years, the Art market has grown from $22bn in 2003 to $56,1bn in 2013. All in all, what will be probably reminded from 2014, are the astronics turnovers realized by Sotheby’s and Christie’s on Contemporary art auction in 2014."

04:14:27 assbot: Woodbury House Gallery | The Contemporary Art Market Trends - January 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCToAr )

04:16:42 BingoBoingo: This might be interesting workstation board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182957

04:16:45 assbot: SUPERMICRO MBD-H9SKV-420 Mini ITX Server Motherboard BGA 769 (FT3) AMD G-series SOC DDR3 1600 - Newegg.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCTBnt )

04:17:13 decimation: no ecc?

04:17:46 BingoBoingo: Damn, chip supposedly supports it, board doesn't

04:22:49 cazalla: BingoBoingo, why not dual nvdia titans for eulora?!

04:23:39 BingoBoingo: I'll prolly just wait for Eulora emacs edition. There's no source package floating around for cg toolkit so it won't openBSD unless I rip it out.

04:23:48 cazalla: or maybe a VR system like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR-lxPhGunU

04:23:49 assbot: The Future - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCUix0 )

04:43:11 *: BingoBoingo put a bitcent against rousey tonight on a shitbook for the lulz

04:45:16 decimation: http://worldif.economist.com/article/8/what-if-the-panama-canal-gets-a-rival-trench-warfare-in-nicaragua "After all, what wouldn’t China pay to see one of its naval fleets one day emerging from the Central American jungle right under America’s nose?"

04:45:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgLQhG )

04:47:04 trinque: BingoBoingo: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ufc-rousey-correia-20150801-story.html << damn correia's eyes alone make me want to see this fight

04:47:05 assbot: Bethe Correia vows to take fight to Ronda Rousey in UFC title match - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgM48i )

04:47:20 trinque: also, that's a pretty reasonable vow

04:47:49 BingoBoingo: trinque: I'm not watching if I hear it is interesting may acquire later. Otherwise, just liked the odds

04:51:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45534 @ 0.00050402 = 22.95 BTC [-] {2}

04:52:00 decimation: BingoBoingo: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fe92x/im_ashley_barr_aka_adam_turner_the_first_mtgox/ < might be good for some lulz

04:52:02 assbot: I'm Ashley Barr, A.K.A "Adam Turner", the first Mt.Gox employee, and alleged DPR (:/). AMA : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCWSDf )

04:56:54 BingoBoingo: decimation: I've been following it a bit, but I dunno how much to trust the source

04:58:23 BingoBoingo: By source I mean a long dead account on a social media site desperate for interactions

04:59:41 decimation: yeah, I would take with a big cube of salt

05:02:53 BingoBoingo: I just remember when the satosi@gmx.com email address was "revived"

05:12:54 BingoBoingo: !up a3voices

05:12:59 BingoBoingo: Hello a3voices

05:13:07 a3voices: hi

05:13:33 BingoBoingo: What bring you around these parts?

05:13:51 a3voices: nothing specific, just looking for good channels

05:14:08 BingoBoingo: cool

05:14:28 BingoBoingo: If you want to keep voice prolly best to register with assbot

05:14:30 BingoBoingo: !h

05:14:30 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

05:24:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38632 @ 0.00050402 = 19.4713 BTC [-]

05:26:12 a3voices: cool well now I have a pgp key for the first time

05:29:26 BingoBoingo: Which version did you use roughly?

05:29:53 cazalla: if ya ever wanted to know what australian welfare recipients were like, this is pretty spot on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s96drQkfpPI

05:29:54 assbot: Damo and Darren 3 - 'Centrelink' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgODXZ )

05:30:18 a3voices: gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.13

05:30:58 BingoBoingo: good a3voices

05:31:01 BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski

05:35:49 BingoBoingo: So, since everyone is apparently looking at db behavior in BTC now... A few hours ago I reset my BIOS clock back a full day. Rightly It refused to acknowledge blocks more than two hours into the future. Then I reset clock to be right. Client refused to correct itself all at once. However many block it scooped up in the verifying databases phase seems to be as far as it got before permawedgeing. Killing and restating fixed issue. B

05:35:50 BingoBoingo: ehavior was on 0.7.whyamIdoingthis and I lack any idea for making a better report. Also vodka. This is definitely an edgecase. Killing and restarting Bitcoin until verify database phase of startup ate all blocks on disk seems to have remedied issue.

05:35:58 BingoBoingo: !Up shovel_boss_

05:37:15 BingoBoingo: Thing is at 368044 nao reports fully sync'd

05:39:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00050377 = 17.7831 BTC [-] {6}

05:40:51 BingoBoingo: Test was not a planned test. Popped hard drive with weirdOS in laptop and it fucked BIOS clock.

05:41:17 BingoBoingo: No idea of impact on TheRealBitcoin if any

05:45:35 BingoBoingo: !up a3voices

05:56:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39250 @ 0.0005037 = 19.7702 BTC [-]

06:00:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27048 @ 0.00052254 = 14.1337 BTC [+] {3}

06:01:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4181 @ 0.00052255 = 2.1848 BTC [+]

06:12:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28850 @ 0.00052628 = 15.1832 BTC [+] {3}

06:36:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.0005379 = 9.3057 BTC [+] {3}

07:10:42 cazalla: BingoBoingo, did ya bet for or against rousey?

07:11:14 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Against, but just a Bitcent, learning moderation

07:11:37 cazalla: was rousey fav?

07:16:39 BingoBoingo: By more than 10x

08:00:30 gernika: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221791 << Built it. It runs and syncs.

08:00:30 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:26; mircea_popescu: you could just rebuild for your platform.

08:00:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

08:04:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20097 @ 0.00053394 = 10.7306 BTC [-]

09:40:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12459 @ 0.00051591 = 6.4277 BTC [-] {4}

09:48:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00053705 = 5.0483 BTC [+]

10:43:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00054019 = 15.9356 BTC [+] {5}

11:20:48 scoopbot_revived: F.MPIF July 2015 trading statement http://explo.yt/post/2015/08/02/F.MPIF-July-2015-trading-statement

11:52:08 fluffypony: lol davout

11:52:14 fluffypony: reddit hates your comments :-P

11:56:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00054054 = 10.3513 BTC [+]

12:15:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00054585 = 20.4967 BTC [+] {5}

12:41:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00052824 = 7.1312 BTC [-]

12:47:19 chetty: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11777486/Executive-arrested-over-disappearance-of-390-million-in-Bitcoins.html

12:47:20 assbot: Executive arrested over disappearance of $390 million in Bitcoins - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1fWcG6Y )

13:18:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10220 @ 0.0005282 = 5.3982 BTC [-] {5}

13:19:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11144 @ 0.00051459 = 5.7346 BTC [-] {2}

13:59:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18566 @ 0.00050924 = 9.4545 BTC [-] {5}

14:03:36 mircea_popescu: gernika wd.

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221808 << ok, but the broad point is still "technology makes it easier". sure. to what ? to whatever. sure.

14:10:43 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 01:30:55; asciilifeform: (which was, that www makes things very easy for the censor, much easier at any rate than rounding up 10,000 books to burn)

14:11:25 mircea_popescu: is it easier for censor to censor documents if documents are deliberately created in easy to censor ways ? sure.

14:11:39 mircea_popescu: is it easier for anti-censor to create documents in formats not easy to censor ? sure.

14:11:40 mircea_popescu: etc.

14:12:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221813 << how is a 32 bit machine going to build for another platform if one doesn't deliberately put the "build for other platforms" code in there!

14:12:25 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 01:32:00; asciilifeform: multilib not relevant!

14:12:45 mircea_popescu: obviously c will compile for anything. but not by itself!

14:14:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221837 << on and off.

14:14:54 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 01:47:14; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you still getting ^this on your nodes ?

14:20:39 ben_vulpes: phf: http://paste.lisp.org/display/152826 << nifty!

14:20:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxKwpO )

14:21:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221842 << exactly. the behaviour itself can not be reproduced over lans.

14:21:12 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 02:11:18; asciilifeform: it also ~never~ happens between directly-connected nodes on my lan, for example.

14:23:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221858 << how the fuck does this work, 1k per sqft omfg.

14:23:08 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 04:02:50; decimation: http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Aspen-Colorado/ "Average price per square foot for Aspen CO was $909, an increase of 23% compared to the same period last year."

14:23:35 mircea_popescu: euro housing costs ~1-2 keuro per sqmp! that's a fucking degree of magnitude.

14:24:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054026 = 22.0426 BTC [+] {3}

14:25:18 ben_vulpes: http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/portland-oregon

14:25:23 ben_vulpes: ehuhueeuhe

14:25:27 ben_vulpes: gaze ye and weep

14:26:53 mircea_popescu: i have no idea why anyone would do this.

14:27:12 mircea_popescu: i point and laugh at the locals six digit price delusions for real estate in the dead centre of ba.

14:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00052554 = 10.5371 BTC [-]

14:31:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00054773 = 13.6385 BTC [+] {3}

14:42:30 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i just looked at online.net. nowhere does it advertise hosting illegal content. i'm not giving them any money.

14:42:59 kakobrekla: hosting illegal content?

14:43:02 mircea_popescu: to qualify for any payments, a host must prominently advertise hosting illegal content.

14:43:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.00055022 = 5.5847 BTC [+]

14:43:03 mircea_popescu: yep.

14:43:10 mircea_popescu: i will not give money to derps who follow usg.

14:43:24 kakobrekla: where does phoenixnap do that pls show

14:43:43 mircea_popescu: you understand how grandfathering works right ?

14:44:12 mircea_popescu: in any case : i will not pay any isp that fails to advertise ignoring "law".

14:44:16 kakobrekla: you are worried about dmca?

14:44:31 kakobrekla: i dont see phoenixnap doing it, so whatevs.

14:44:38 mircea_popescu: i am worried about living in a world which contains isps that follow "law"

14:46:43 mircea_popescu: and yes, it's a difficult principle to apply uniformly, and yes i don't universally managing atm. nevertheless, i'm not taking stuff back to the dumbass world. and yes i think it'd be just grand if everyone follows it wherever possible.

14:46:58 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-05-2015#1125737 < funny.

14:46:58 assbot: Logged on 08-05-2015 21:46:38; asciilifeform: i guess my red-hot doug lenat k001 w4r3z stays on kako's box, l0l

14:47:29 mircea_popescu: it's purely a pr thing. got to get people used to the idea that they MUST say they despise the usg.

14:47:49 mircea_popescu: to get paid.

14:48:11 mircea_popescu: none of this "people agree, rule of law, bla bla" nonsense any more.

14:48:28 kakobrekla: this is all based on nothing.

14:48:32 mircea_popescu: people happen to agree alright, it's just the other way.

14:48:57 kakobrekla: dont worry, you can say its just too much css.

14:49:02 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you're a nihilist. everything's ultimately based on nothing as fatr as you're concerned, if you're willing to take the time and look.

14:55:29 chetty: <mircea_popescu> it's purely a pr thing. got to get people used to the idea that they MUST say they despise the usg.// just the usg? lots of other places seem equally worthy of it

14:55:44 mircea_popescu: nah, generally speaking.

14:55:59 mircea_popescu: gotta get back to the good old 80s "if you follow the law you're unfuckable, an idiot and get lost"

14:56:06 mircea_popescu: it's after all how the soviets ended.

15:01:11 mircea_popescu: lulz of today : if one googles for bulletproof hosting stuff in the last month, the first 5 results are this dumbass trendmicro "report", and the rest references to it. like : "A new report from TrendLabs -- the research arm of security company Trend Micro -- uncovers the existence of what it calls 'Bulletproof Hosting Services' (BPHSs) which provide"

15:01:19 mircea_popescu: fancy that, trendmicro discovered the hole in the donut!

15:13:10 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> obviously c will compile for anything. but not by itself! << my point was that i put a complete kit in there. that will build x86_64 on whatever you like, x86-32, cray, pdp11.

15:13:23 mircea_popescu: o i c

15:17:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fortunately there is wildlife that lives on usg-free net, whose turds one can follow to find the forest. i speak, of course, of crapware artists and sp4mz0rz

15:17:26 mircea_popescu: of course.

15:17:32 mircea_popescu: but forget the discreet bs.

15:17:36 mircea_popescu: mainstream all the things.

15:17:45 asciilifeform: 100% mainstream in ru

15:17:58 mircea_popescu: myeah.

15:18:12 mircea_popescu: 100% mainstream anywhere outside of "my mother had me with a retard" land.

15:23:25 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, incitatus still synced (along with the other two)

15:24:03 asciilifeform: from a closer look, it appears to have been running into swap earlier

15:24:37 asciilifeform: what is really needed is moar s00p3rn0d3 l1f3styl3!!! nodez

15:24:49 asciilifeform: like dulap

15:25:54 asciilifeform: though, strangely enough, the best-performing (e.g., fewest 'black hole' issues) node in my fleet thus far has been 'zoolag', which is sitting under my desk, on residential fiber

15:26:37 asciilifeform: 50 connections, presently (dulap - 40; incitatus - 32)

15:28:11 mircea_popescu: how long it's been on is the largest factor for that metric.

15:28:23 asciilifeform: not only

15:28:39 asciilifeform: but the 'black hole' effect, also.

15:29:01 asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fi92w/how_important_are_individual_full_nodes_and_how << check out the philippinos

15:29:03 assbot: How important are individual full nodes, and how much does it benefit the network per individual? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1E2oyu2 )

15:29:13 asciilifeform: apparently - still in business

15:29:16 mircea_popescu: doh.

15:41:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0526 << interestingly, these appear to be dead code. what were they meant for ?

15:41:27 assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDYpY1 )

15:42:11 asciilifeform: trinque's gcov paint these a very deep red (0 runs)

15:42:29 asciilifeform: and indeed, i see no graph path to them

15:42:49 asciilifeform: speaking of which, anyone ever get solrodar's graph into a readable form ?

15:46:28 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu did iirc, via gimp

15:46:51 ben_vulpes: but i never did.

15:47:07 mircea_popescu: yea.

15:47:20 asciilifeform: if it was what i saw, that wasn't readable !

15:47:31 asciilifeform: fucking ball of yarn

15:47:34 mircea_popescu: ...

15:47:42 mircea_popescu: how would i decide that if.

15:48:20 asciilifeform: well i just gave an example. can you tell from that picture whether it is theoretically possible for the 'subscription' routines to be called?

15:48:21 ben_vulpes: readable, renderable...

15:48:25 trinque: asciilifeform: that thing's a bit jacked

15:48:34 trinque: split the results between the build dirs and the ourlibs dir

15:48:34 *: asciilifeform used grep to answer the question, unambiguous 'no'

15:49:02 trinque: I'm going to give that thing a few more shoves today and see if I can get it all in one tree

15:49:20 asciilifeform: trinque: gcov is useful but doesn't prove code to be alive or dead, can only suggest

15:49:34 asciilifeform: (wallet, for instance, would look entirely 'dead' on a gcov run where such was not used)

15:49:45 ben_vulpes: i don't see any usage of anysubscribed at least, asciilifeform

15:49:47 trinque: yep, makes sense

15:50:58 asciilifeform: the place i'm trying to go with this is: dead code ought not be in The Book, except - in the one and only case where it pre-dates gavin et al, it could be shoved into an appendix

15:51:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's keep it simple. have you loaded the svg in gimp and examined the picture painted.

15:51:22 asciilifeform: link to latest version of this?

15:51:49 mircea_popescu: i don't have one. lesee

15:51:56 mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea gimp

15:51:58 assbot: 8 results for 'from:mircea gimp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea+gimp

15:52:16 asciilifeform: http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph ?

15:52:17 assbot: Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZBuh )

15:52:33 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/bitcoin-dot.svg

15:52:37 assbot: Call graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZFds )

15:53:25 asciilifeform: yeah that was what i saw

15:54:23 asciilifeform: incidentally, it is worthless if flattened into a bitmap

15:54:32 asciilifeform: gotta be viewed in a graphical www browser, so you can search

15:55:10 trinque: http://getspringy.com/demo.html

15:55:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZVZX )

15:55:26 asciilifeform: and, after you do this, aside from the nightmare of intersecting lines and bubbles light-years away from their ~only~ antecedent, etc,

15:55:37 trinque: would be nice to grab a node and shake

15:56:10 asciilifeform: you will see things like: 'CNode :: PushVersion' is connected! to whom?? to 'CNode :: CNode'.

15:56:18 trinque: http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/ << also looks neat

15:56:21 assbot: cola.js: Constraint-based Layout in the Browser ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE0141 )

15:56:37 asciilifeform: this conveys ~zero~ useful information. in particular, the fact that 'CNode :: PushVersion' is a deadcode island is no longer visually apparent.

15:56:56 trinque: http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/examples/browsemovies.html << in particular

15:56:57 assbot: Incremental exploration of a large graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE03c9 )

15:57:26 asciilifeform: the above observation is not a criticism of solrodar's work, but of the catastrophically inadequate existing tooling

15:59:30 mircea_popescu: mkay. well....

15:59:47 trinque: so... what about those JS things

15:59:56 asciilifeform: trinque: the 'springy' thing is quite like the molecular strain sims i've used

16:00:14 asciilifeform: except there is no reason to make it a clicking and dragging game

16:00:37 trinque: yeah, best to just have some layout algo make it readable

16:00:48 asciilifeform: can give the 'atoms' electrostatic-style charge, so they repel, and the bonds - 'strain', so they contract

16:00:50 trinque: clicking collapsed nodes to expand might be helpful

16:00:51 asciilifeform: then simulated-anneal.

16:00:55 trinque: yeah

16:01:17 asciilifeform: at any rate, i originally wanted this as a wall poster

16:01:28 asciilifeform: so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search

16:01:36 trinque: http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/examples/dotpowergraph.html

16:01:37 assbot: Grid Layout ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiecpW )

16:01:42 trinque: that helps my eyes a bit

16:01:52 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/152828#1 << do forgive my ignorance, but what am i missing about converting the "command" into a string? (Adlai, asciilifeform, your eyes'd be appreciated too)

16:01:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HieixP )

16:01:53 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:01:54 trinque: would need a legend or bigger boxes

16:01:59 asciilifeform: ew

16:02:11 asciilifeform: 'help the mouse find the cheese'

16:02:13 asciilifeform: no thx

16:02:21 trinque: lol

16:03:36 asciilifeform: the most critical thing re: the graph is probably to make it reflect ~only function calls~ rather than class membership

16:03:55 asciilifeform: the latter is ~entirely irrelevant~ to a call graph!

16:04:48 punkman: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fggjj/someone_has_broadcast_a_transaction_with_20000/

16:04:49 assbot: Someone has broadcast a transaction with 20,000 inputs! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE0PG5 )

16:08:07 asciilifeform: why the fuck are 0-valued outputs spendable !?

16:08:35 asciilifeform: (or even valid in a block)

16:10:06 asciilifeform: https://www.f2pool.com/pushtx << interesting

16:10:22 punkman: plenty of pages like that

16:11:17 punkman: https://bitbucket.org/pankkake/pushtx

16:11:18 assbot: pankkake / pushtx — Bitbucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hig6XM )

16:11:55 asciilifeform: punkman: the linked page is connected to a live pool. and demands password (presumably subscriptions are sold?)

16:12:07 asciilifeform: reminiscent of what mircea_popescu suggested, but with moar duct tape and chicken wire

16:13:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222073 << this is seriously, deeply 'un-lispy' code. it explicitly reads fields!!! what you oughta do is define the 'message' structure in the most minimal way you can think of, and then write a routine that snarfs any structure defined that way, whatever it may be.

16:13:38 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 16:01:52; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/152828#1 << do forgive my ignorance, but what am i missing about converting the "command" into a string? (Adlai, asciilifeform, your eyes'd be appreciated too)

16:14:25 ben_vulpes: well how'd i know without putting myself up for the cane

16:14:36 asciilifeform: then you will have a jewel in your toolbox that you can use 20 years from now

16:14:40 asciilifeform: as it is, you have... perl.

16:15:24 asciilifeform: http://www.cliki.net/binary-types << most famous example

16:15:25 assbot: CLiki: Binary-types ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE26g9 )

16:15:51 ben_vulpes: this has come up before, and i had forgotten.

16:15:53 asciilifeform: https://github.com/frodef/binary-types << mirror

16:15:54 assbot: frodef/binary-types · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE28om )

16:16:10 asciilifeform: and yes, it seems like 50x more work, at first glance

16:16:12 asciilifeform: because... it is.

16:16:38 asciilifeform: but the whole point of a computer is that you do the 50, so you don't have to do the 50,000 over next 20 years.

16:17:18 asciilifeform: re: binary-types, see esp. the mirror link, for example

16:17:29 asciilifeform: it has definition of 'elf' (unix executable) format parser

16:17:56 ben_vulpes: am reading, yes

16:19:28 trinque: hm yeah, that's much cooler; it's a lot like you'd describe a grammar for a parser generator

16:19:38 trinque: well fuck, it is that

16:19:40 trinque: lol

16:19:42 *: trinque finds coffee

16:21:43 ben_vulpes: (but ascii - i /can/ mutate in place, therefore i /must/!)

16:22:07 asciilifeform: wai wat

16:22:34 ben_vulpes: just a joke

16:22:43 ben_vulpes: "we can, therefore we must"

16:22:45 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236870273259433@naggum.net.html << obligatory

16:22:46 assbot: Re: two questions about strings - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE2ZW8 )

16:23:12 asciilifeform: (mainly last paragraph)

16:24:04 asciilifeform: ;;isup fraudsters.com

16:24:08 gribble: fraudsters.com is down

16:24:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^

16:24:48 mircea_popescu: aha.

16:25:01 mircea_popescu: shoulda read it yesterday, what is this.

16:25:09 mircea_popescu: you read when you feel like ?!?!?!

16:25:11 asciilifeform: prolly more of the usual

16:25:58 punkman: every ;;isup fraudsters.com feeds the troll

16:26:15 asciilifeform: the troll lives on sunshine

16:26:26 asciilifeform: and big fat duffels of benjie from usg

16:26:30 mircea_popescu: lol

16:26:47 mircea_popescu: srsly, there;s nothing new there as opposed to yest.

16:27:10 trinque: "Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two." << wahahaha

16:27:14 asciilifeform: except that i linked to mircea_popescu's pgp key in a post

16:27:24 asciilifeform: and clicked (by mistake) just now, noticed that no one can see it.

16:27:26 trinque: people who don't like "mean" people have no appreciation for comedy

16:27:36 mircea_popescu: aha.

16:27:57 mircea_popescu: well, it exists as a signed thing in the hands of the conference participants.

16:28:00 asciilifeform: aha.

16:28:32 punkman: how do you pronounce shotgun with more/less syllables than two?

16:28:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote a short post last night, linking to an archive.today of the phuctored list, and exhorting the folks whose names appear therein to write

16:28:52 asciilifeform: (doubt it will have any effect. perhaps ought to consider spamming them?)

16:29:02 mircea_popescu: fuck em, why would you care/bother ?

16:29:02 scoopbot_revived: Doing "God's Work" http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/02/doing-gods-work/

16:29:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would like to find what they have in common ?

16:29:33 mircea_popescu: you're coming from tyhis weird place where we're all possessed of functioning brains here on this great internet and stuff. wtf.

16:29:45 asciilifeform: what, ~nobody on the list~ has brain ?

16:29:47 asciilifeform: not one ?

16:29:55 mircea_popescu: they have in common being either dumb per se or else i nthe crosshairs of the manacling-with-dumb cannon.

16:30:12 mircea_popescu: neither class wants to talk to you about it, for different reasons.

16:30:23 asciilifeform: i suppose now that their names have been 'googleable' for months, and still no reaction - this conclusion is nearly inescapable

16:30:35 mircea_popescu: something like that.

16:30:44 punkman: asciilifeform: did you email all of the already? I remember some mention of emails

16:30:46 mircea_popescu: you got one schmuck exercising his right to be idiotic is the sumall.

16:31:07 asciilifeform: punkman: nope. and it would almost certainly vanish in their spam filter, also.

16:31:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yeah i recall. was it anvin? iirc

16:31:29 mircea_popescu: some anon.

16:31:34 asciilifeform: ah that one

16:31:39 mircea_popescu: because hey, that's the way to do things.

16:31:39 asciilifeform: that one didn't even sign his name!

16:31:59 mircea_popescu: i'll take it a notch further : none of them had anything to sign. ever.

16:32:06 mircea_popescu: this includes the pgp mailing list.

16:32:11 asciilifeform: 'go to the place - where? no one knows, and bring me back that - which? no one knows' (tm)

16:32:12 mircea_popescu: crazy as it may sound.

16:32:42 asciilifeform: wai wut

16:33:02 asciilifeform: as in, nothing ever changed from their signature being on it or not ?

16:33:04 mircea_popescu: not.a.single.entry.on.your.list.ever.hand.any.legitimate.use.for.encryption.

16:33:09 asciilifeform: well no shit.

16:33:20 mircea_popescu: the impersonated ones, i mean.

16:33:24 mircea_popescu: they just have no business here.

16:33:28 asciilifeform: idk, the 'update signing key' people

16:33:37 asciilifeform: had at least in their own planet, a use

16:33:47 mircea_popescu: it's a case of, 12 yo girly playing a game she doesn't understand with toys that aren't really toys. except online and with boys.

16:33:53 asciilifeform: and some of the maths students may have had something or other to say to someone or other

16:34:00 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:34:17 asciilifeform: and the folks releasing code (anvin? a few others?) did sign it

16:34:51 mircea_popescu: i bet you, dollars to donuts, that they signed it for "wouldn';t it be cool if" reasons. an d the thing doesn't actually work / is not full lengthj /.trivially defeated on some op sec hole or other.

16:34:52 asciilifeform: what i mean to say is, the folks selected for this special delicacy treat, were selected presumably for reasons ?

16:35:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc linus checks sigs

16:35:38 asciilifeform: (of anvin et all)

16:35:40 *: mircea_popescu suddenly realised, sometimes last night, that the deep reason nothing works is simply that - all of it was made on a lark.

16:35:43 mircea_popescu: not for serious.

16:35:53 asciilifeform: but how often? between him and the gods. i wouldn't know

16:35:58 mircea_popescu: orly ? i thought he just dumps code someone emailed him intop the kernel.

16:36:43 asciilifeform: l0l

16:36:50 mircea_popescu: for srs.

16:36:59 asciilifeform: (if he did, by all rights 2015 ought to have happened in 2005, or 1995... ?)

16:37:17 mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall some incident where precisely this happened.

16:37:26 mircea_popescu: i suppose i should stfu if i can't link it.

16:37:32 *: asciilifeform also recalls

16:37:37 asciilifeform: but it may have involved freebsd

16:37:52 mircea_popescu: anyway : there's this entire pretend culture, and it goes very deep. dunno how to properly illustrate it in its meta splendor.

16:38:03 asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/15/openbsd_backdoor_claim << rumour

16:38:04 assbot: FBI 'planted backdoor' in OpenBSD • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1HilwSq )

16:38:04 mircea_popescu: but i'm nothing oif not persistent, so lemme try.

16:38:53 asciilifeform: and the 'pretend culture' at least in as far as it concerns public key crypto, was a very deliberate plank of the 'cypherpunk' folks - 'let's use crypto for every piece of shit, to defeat traffic analysis'

16:38:53 mircea_popescu: case A : kid sees girl in bar. waits for moment when no-one's looking around 3am, kloinks her in the head with bottle, drags her dark alley outside, shreds her clothes and her virginity.

16:39:34 mircea_popescu: case B : kid sees girl in bar, works up his courage until 3am, eventually approaches her and explains that he's into kinky stuff. which works out, because she always dreamed about being raped, so they meet in dark alley and have some great sex.

16:40:07 mircea_popescu: and i posit that the entire fucking thing, "from the ground up", is B. all of it.

16:40:34 mircea_popescu: "hey, woiuldn't it be cool if you could like... encrypt shit ?" "why ?" "so you cxould be like... a secre agent!"

16:40:48 mircea_popescu: then they went about roleplaying their super-secret-agent kink for a while

16:40:51 mircea_popescu: and then forgot about it.

16:41:22 mircea_popescu: guitar hero for a different generation.

16:42:08 trinque: sounds like the problem with letting most people define themselves on their own

16:42:14 mircea_popescu: possibly the last time anyone did anything for serious with computers was in tyhe 80s.

16:42:25 trinque: you're going to get fake representations out of most, if it cuts it with the people looking at them

16:42:27 mircea_popescu: since then, everyone's just been trying to salvage utility out of the kids' roleplaying

16:42:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: industry exists

16:42:35 trinque: I was fumbling for that idea the other day re: internal representations of identity

16:42:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform does it.

16:42:44 asciilifeform: i know, this sound like 'martians live among us'

16:43:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall that pdp emulator fella ?

16:43:07 asciilifeform: somebody's buying that.

16:43:17 asciilifeform: folks with beards as long as my arm.

16:43:21 mircea_popescu: aha. exactly.

16:43:26 mircea_popescu: those are hobbists not industrialists.

16:43:32 asciilifeform: on whom the remnants of 'the west' stand, like on elephants on turtles.

16:43:45 asciilifeform: not hobbyists. those use 'open source' emu

16:43:54 asciilifeform: this one is intended for industrial plant

16:43:57 asciilifeform: which still runs, yes, on pdp

16:44:14 mircea_popescu: as someone's hobby.

16:44:15 asciilifeform: (as do a great many american .mil systems, of the kind which still work)

16:44:27 mircea_popescu: the "industry", such as it is, is fucking google, holding hackathons

16:44:34 asciilifeform: no.

16:44:39 mircea_popescu: trying to feed themselves out of used condoms left behind in dark alleys

16:45:05 asciilifeform: the industry, in actuality, is grey beards maintaining code written in 1973, which keeps the water mains pressurized and the lights on.

16:45:19 asciilifeform: and the condom injection molds going

16:45:20 asciilifeform: etc

16:45:32 mircea_popescu: aha. what's your definition of "industry" ?

16:45:39 asciilifeform: easy: the ox

16:45:43 asciilifeform: not the flies on his horns.

16:45:43 mircea_popescu: because i suspect you go by ops whereas i go by financials./

16:45:51 mircea_popescu: yea. okay.

16:46:00 asciilifeform: if you go by financials, then the 'industry' is the u.s. fed.

16:46:05 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

16:46:06 asciilifeform: which prints the payola

16:46:13 asciilifeform: and then gives it out to demented bums

16:46:15 mircea_popescu: alrighty then. that was my sad storyt for today.

16:46:24 shinohai: http://www.bbspot.com/News/2006/08/paris-hilton-tinkerbell-linux.html

16:46:26 assbot: BBspot - Paris Hilton Releases Tinkerbell Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hinhz7 )

16:46:59 mircea_popescu: do not expect a girl with a collar is actually a slave - she probably thought it looks good for her facebook ; do not expect someone with a pgp key is a lord - they probably were just trying to impress someone.

16:47:03 asciilifeform: Slutware Linux << win

16:48:01 asciilifeform: iirc the 'cypherpunk' folks thought of themselves as anonymous soldiers trying to pave the way for 'lords' to use key without insta-flagging

16:48:23 shinohai: LOL @ slutware

16:48:35 shinohai: I should push a slackware release

16:49:00 trinque: is that poor guy still maintaining it?

16:50:59 kakobrekla: heh, re pdp, apparently http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/

16:51:00 assbot: Nuke plants to rely on PDP-11 code UNTIL 2050! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hiobf3 )

16:51:12 kakobrekla: i guess end of world is 2051

16:52:04 trinque: jurov: how hard is it to dump maildir mail files from mailman?

16:52:47 trinque: I wrote a python script last night that turds together maildir mail from the txt dumps, but it's a hack at best

16:53:10 trinque: at least there are sigs; I don't really care about having identical mail headers to the originals

16:58:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6580 @ 0.00055022 = 3.6204 BTC [+]

17:00:01 asciilifeform: i will add, btw, that yes, i know that 'code from 1973' is not 'maintained' in the modern idiot bottomless-barrel-of-bug sense

17:00:30 asciilifeform: instead, it is, e.g., transplanted to a 486 using the emulator mentioned earlier, handwritten by a fella with prolly a metre-long beard

17:00:48 asciilifeform: because if it were not - the water stops coming out of the tap

17:01:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it was officially proclaimed, at one point, that the sole remaining american land-based nuke delivery vehicle, 'minuteman', is 100% vax-powered

17:02:13 asciilifeform: (in the rocket, a miniaturized variant; on land - the real thing)

17:03:17 asciilifeform: 'PDP-11 assembler coders are hard to find' << what a pile of shit

17:03:20 *: asciilifeform raises hand

17:03:38 asciilifeform: but no, the unspoken qualification is the two-metre-long beard

17:03:42 asciilifeform: and yes, i can understand why.

17:05:05 asciilifeform: the thing that ~must~ be understood is that the ancient iron is maintained entirely, wholly, as a shield against microshitification

17:05:24 asciilifeform: when a pc runs reactor - yes, that is the end.

17:05:53 asciilifeform: yes, let's have winblowz, poettering, drepper, chinese capacitors, in reactor room.

17:05:57 asciilifeform: it'll be grand.

17:06:18 jurov: yes they do

17:06:20 asciilifeform: just let me know the day before, so i can catch the last plane out.

17:06:35 kakobrekla: out to where ?!

17:06:44 jurov: in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k

17:06:44 asciilifeform: 'away from here'

17:07:00 kakobrekla: no such place.

17:07:03 asciilifeform: http://www.kafka.org/index.php?aid=172 << obligatory

17:07:04 assbot: The Kafka Project | English | My Destination (transl. Alex Flores) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiriDN )

17:07:10 kakobrekla: everywhere i go, im here.

17:09:37 jurov: trinque it's easy, if you're subscribed you can publish it yourself

17:10:04 jurov: i will, too. eventually.

17:16:09 trinque: jurov: I missed a bunch of messages due to that tls thing, so I'm trying to grab all those

17:22:02 jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/btc-dev.mbox.xz this one is from july 3

17:22:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiuFKK )

17:22:34 trinque: cool! thanks!

17:22:41 trinque: that actually covers everything I needed, I think

17:26:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess that's a point yea.

17:35:28 mircea_popescu: <jurov> in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k << why not me while at it.

17:40:10 jurov: me is not properly certified

17:41:42 jurov: can't even imagine what noise would austrians do if a reactor nearby would be allowed to run on something homebrew

17:42:20 jurov: everything had to be modernized by siemens & co..

17:43:10 kakobrekla: >I cooked up a multi-user general ledger system based on this hardware in '79. My client was a rural Iowa accountant who (what a prophet!) was afraid of hacks, so he insisted it NOT be compatible with anything else on the planet. So, though NorthStar DOS was way ahead of it's time, I had to ditch it. I burned my own boot EPROMs, wrote the whole thing using Ashley's assembler. You just can't do that anymore.

17:43:11 kakobrekla: hehe

17:43:34 kakobrekla: same problem in 79

17:54:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5960 @ 0.00052554 = 3.1322 BTC [-] {2}

18:19:34 mircea_popescu: in other news, https://i.imgur.com/TCjVzuQ.jpg

18:19:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MFXj0g )

18:23:24 shinohai: LOL

18:50:13 shinohai: LOL BingoBoingo haz to update his article: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/02/world/cecil-the-lion-brother-jericho-alive/

18:50:14 assbot: Cecil the lion's brother Jericho is alive - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiMDgk )

18:53:50 punkman: "Reportedly, Koko enjoys seeing human nipples and will request her female caregivers to show them to her on occasion. This has resulted in sexual harassment lawsuits by caregivers who have felt pressured by Patterson to show their nipples to Koko against their will. Attorney Jody Weiner, who previously represented KoKo in licensing agreements, writes that he should have recognized warning signs of a sex scandal. "

18:56:22 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Nope. Jericho it turns out is not actually Cecil's brother. CNN is just listening to any crank who calls in.

18:57:09 shinohai: I had hoped you could churn out another story based on that xD

19:12:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2949 @ 0.001135 = 3.3471 BTC [+]

19:15:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11565 @ 0.00052268 = 6.0448 BTC [-]

19:23:35 mod6: <asciilifeform> interestingly, incitatus synced and stayed synced today << ahh ok, thanks for the heads up

19:26:11 shinohai: I m syncing the dark side's wallet, keeps crashing with CDB: Error -30974, can't open database

19:56:10 mircea_popescu: !up eric

19:56:13 mircea_popescu: !up livegnik

19:56:19 mircea_popescu: !up roasbeef

19:58:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> can give the 'atoms' electrostatic-style charge, so they repel, and the bonds - 'strain', so they contract << this is actually a pretty great idea. and then run iterations over the thing until stable.

19:59:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search << technically speaking, needing "search" is a symptom that you've not yet learned it.

19:59:33 mircea_popescu: ie, fit it in head.

20:00:49 decimation: 17:42 <+jurov> everything had to be modernized by siemens & co.. < jurov, but why does 'modernize' mean 'run on winblows 2k?'

20:01:08 decimation: where's the german alternative to microsoft?

20:01:10 jurov: ask siemens

20:02:14 mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.

20:02:53 decimation: agilent - runs spectrum analyzers on winblows. rohde & schwarz - same

20:03:24 decimation: it's not like they sell enough of them for 'people to come to expect'

20:04:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222307 << no shit. and if i'd learned it, wouldn't need the diagram.

20:04:39 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 19:59:28; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search << technically speaking, needing "search" is a symptom that you've not yet learned it.

20:05:09 mircea_popescu: anyway, re punkman's reddit link - the tards miss the fruit and focus on the pit of that thing, as usual.

20:06:29 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (or even valid in a block) << they are not valid. they are spendable for reasons that have to do with what the protocol says, ie, unintentionally.

20:06:48 asciilifeform: well sure

20:07:19 jurov: decimation: perhaps you missed how my info how gigawatts of steam turbines are simulated and projected ... in excel

20:08:16 jurov: (i mean, when they are installed, hopefully not when they are built. but not sure on that, either)

20:08:22 mircea_popescu: or my info as to how the entire fucking house of cards came down chiefly bewcause some idiots were doing copula calculations

20:08:25 mircea_popescu: also in excel

20:08:58 mircea_popescu: (gauss copula, look into that sometime. if you want "pseudoscience that burned the world", global warming's nothing, witch hunts are nothing, this thing ruioned trillions)

20:09:06 asciilifeform: jurov: the thing is, nothing is built from the ground up (except for the circus mentioned earlier just now by mircea_popescu) with 'excel'. the infrastructure is running on fumes

20:09:23 asciilifeform: and i'd bet good money that there is, somewhere deep inside that win2k reactor, a real computer

20:09:32 asciilifeform: largely autonomous from the shitputer

20:09:46 asciilifeform: (which in turn is mostly a display of gui dials and gauges)

20:10:03 jurov: like in iran?

20:10:23 asciilifeform: jurov is almost certainly thinking of the refinery

20:10:30 asciilifeform: where yes, winblowz

20:10:51 asciilifeform: this is because the poor saps were stuck buying new

20:10:57 asciilifeform: can't get the pdp new.

20:11:08 asciilifeform: buy new, get 'siemens', run moar winblowz.

20:11:40 jurov: um..er.. how is half of europe gonna get a whiff of pdp?

20:11:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222312 << aha, international komy000nity!!!

20:11:44 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 20:02:14; mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.

20:11:58 asciilifeform: jurov: ask the folks with the intact sov reactors

20:11:59 scoopbot_revived: Line betting on BitBet, July 2015 http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-july-2015/

20:11:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your idea of nuke plants is more akin to a UP's big boy control hatch. this is not how they work, whole shit's run in java these days. for that matter - remember the recent airbus which had all 4 engines stop because counter smash issues ?

20:12:15 jurov: ^

20:12:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1) nothing realtime-reactive runs in java 2) the counter overflows after what was it, 8 months of continuous engine time ????

20:12:36 mircea_popescu: i tell you. there are no professionals left. all children posing for the mirror.

20:12:45 mircea_popescu: a world of play-pretend like they're adults and doing things

20:13:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i recall, maxint / 100 it was.

20:13:05 jurov: and i strongly suspect the computers of yore aren't what alf imagines, either. have them eat a text with arbitrary linelengths and see

20:13:13 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 8 *30 * 24 * 3600 * 100

20:13:13 gribble: 2073600000

20:13:17 mircea_popescu: seems about right

20:13:21 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-05-2015#1118863 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-05-2015#1118867

20:13:21 assbot: Logged on 03-05-2015 03:39:28; decimation: asciilifeform: I have a friend who is an old graybeard EE, been working on actual circuitry since the 80's

20:13:21 assbot: Logged on 03-05-2015 03:40:09; decimation: he said recently a sea change has come with kids coming out of school; they want to specify massive cpu, memory for very simple micro-controllers so they can run java

20:13:24 asciilifeform: jurov: go feed it the text

20:13:28 hanbot: deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_072015.txt.asc

20:13:31 deedbot-: accepted: 1

20:13:47 mircea_popescu: jurov or with locales :D

20:14:01 asciilifeform: but jurov isn't wrong, per se, there probably ~is~ a reactor somewhere handled by four java boxes trying to cover for each other's garbagecollector pauses

20:14:15 mircea_popescu: a nuclear reactor is a kind of flywheel

20:14:19 mircea_popescu: you got plenty of time.

20:14:19 asciilifeform: and you can tell from a distance when a sector of civilization has been consumed by the cancer

20:14:23 chetty: feed the computer anything, with front panel switches

20:14:23 asciilifeform: !s flashlight crash

20:14:24 assbot: 4 results for 'flashlight crash' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=flashlight+crash

20:14:52 jurov: all out email and else woes are due to text originally defined as "interspersed by cr in shorter intervals than any buffer wherever gets() is used"

20:15:02 jurov: all else is binary by definition

20:15:21 asciilifeform: jurov: don't confuse the retardation of unix&descendants for 'the real computer'

20:15:34 mircea_popescu: i suspect this is actually the correct definition of "text" for computing.

20:15:34 decimation: you guys realise we are gonna have to respecify email too right?

20:15:40 asciilifeform: 'the real computer' was and is programmed in asm ab initio - yes, from entirely empty space; for every task.

20:15:50 mircea_popescu: decimation how about respecifying email as null.

20:15:50 jurov: asciilifeform: and your pdp example is?

20:15:55 asciilifeform: ab initio.

20:16:06 decimation: mircea_popescu: sounds good to me. file transfer a .txt

20:16:23 asciilifeform: respecifying email as null << win

20:16:27 mircea_popescu: imagine if every so often i had to click here to see if there's new lines

20:16:32 mircea_popescu: then click on the lines indioviduallky

20:16:36 mircea_popescu: FUCKING HELL WHO DID THIS

20:16:44 decimation: actually you could argue that 'email' as a concept is 'let's pretend we are working at the post office'

20:16:48 mircea_popescu: ^

20:16:57 decimation: not 'let's build a system for reliably transmitting information'

20:16:58 mircea_popescu: it makes as much sense as drawing horses on a car.

20:17:14 mircea_popescu: it had its importance selling technology to the retards.

20:17:27 mircea_popescu: but other than that, it's as useful as "wysiwyg" or "point and click" or "just works!"

20:17:54 mircea_popescu: nonsensical gimmicks of the ilk of "stop fucking your sister or else santa won't bringf you presents" and "eat your veggies so you can overpower your sister and stick it in her"

20:18:19 asciilifeform: l0l

20:19:09 decimation: much of it stems from "need to hustle to make money, use what's on the shelf and make it fit"

20:19:56 decimation: I was watching a 'banking' show on the BBC the other day. it featured a young afghan who managed to make it from goat-fuck-stan to the uk welfare state

20:21:03 decimation: he complained that in afghanistan, everything is free - but people are poor and live in mud huts. they envy the english for their warm houses &etc. but now he works 12 hour days to try to make rent, pay bills - and never has time to enjoy his warm house

20:21:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also the idiocy of 'skeumorphism'

20:21:28 decimation: because nothing is free

20:21:44 asciilifeform: decimation: this and precisely this, is why i laugh at people who discuss compensation in terms of money

20:22:09 decimation: yeah, it would be interesting for someone to interview people exactly like this: grew up orc, came to 'first world'

20:22:13 asciilifeform: ~i don't give a fuck~ what you're paid, how much of it do you get to ~keep~, and how much time do you get to sit in the warm house and drink tea and not think of work

20:23:00 decimation: later in the episode he managed to somehow get an offer from the uk govt - he could buy his flat for 20k pounds

20:23:07 asciilifeform: very few orcs have the brains to even consider this formula

20:23:11 decimation: but the minimum loan from the bank is 25k

20:23:36 decimation: he was like 'what am I gonna do with an extra 9k and I have to pay interest!"

20:24:16 decimation: the rest of the show featured idiots with 25k credit card balances trying 'refinance'

20:24:23 asciilifeform: l0l

20:24:52 asciilifeform: must have been filmed a while ago, these figures would probably have an extra trailing zero today

20:24:56 asciilifeform: at least where i live.

20:24:58 decimation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b061xf9j/the-bank-a-matter-of-life-and-debt-3-lending < can watch here if you manage to obtain uk ip

20:24:59 assbot: BBC iPlayer - The Bank: A Matter of Life and Debt - 3. Lending ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qb2h )

20:25:41 asciilifeform: back to the earlier observation, the attachment orcs have to the myth of 'the west' is a truly religious affair

20:25:56 decimation: yeah you could tell the guy was disappointed with his situation

20:26:09 asciilifeform: not even being planted nose-first into the genuine pile of shit, has any curative effect

20:26:27 asciilifeform: he will probably try to make his way 'moar west'

20:26:30 decimation: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/07/09/illegal-immigrants-exploit-channel-tunnel-closure/ < for example here

20:26:31 assbot: Illegal Immigrants Exploit Channel Tunnel Closure - Breitbart ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qfz5 )

20:26:32 asciilifeform: to, say, canada, or usa.

20:26:51 asciilifeform: where he can work 14 hour days for a flat with six of his kind

20:27:07 asciilifeform: (or get into the jail, where, approximately, same)

20:27:18 decimation: somehow people from Eritrea are convinced that if they only make it to the uk they can supports their entire families!

20:27:38 decimation: not realizing the complete chumpatron they are entering

20:27:58 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-07-2015#1214974 << see also

20:27:58 assbot: Logged on 28-07-2015 04:36:46; asciilifeform: 'hot', in this case, being the world of the coolie, and 'cold' being the world he aspires to enter (or at least send his children to, oxbridge and harvaprinceyaleton)

20:28:53 decimation: usa was kinda like this in the 1800's

20:29:04 jurov: yet no one goes back to afganistan

20:29:10 decimation: east coast cities swelled with immigrants trying to get some monies

20:29:21 decimation: but at least at that time they could buy a cheap farm in kansas

20:29:33 decimation: jurov: good point

20:29:38 asciilifeform: jurov: warm house is addictive. or whole 'west' circus would voluntarily rebuild afganistan at home

20:29:41 mircea_popescu: decimation> yeah, it would be interesting for someone to interview people exactly like this: grew up orc, came to 'first world' << ie, half of romania under 50yo.

20:29:44 asciilifeform: (they are anyway, but slowly)

20:29:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16425 @ 0.00052268 = 8.585 BTC [-]

20:29:50 mircea_popescu: prolly 1/4 of russia or so, cause they're orc-er.

20:30:36 mircea_popescu: and re the myth of the west, there was that fraudsters article linked from a recent one, "florida and other places".

20:30:39 mircea_popescu: tis a sad thing.

20:30:54 asciilifeform: jurov: it is the very meaning of the word 'addiction' as commonly used. (no one speaks of being 'addicted' to air, sunlight, etc)

20:31:14 mircea_popescu: jurov actually plenty of people do go back to afghanistan.

20:31:16 asciilifeform: if you want things that are ultimately doing you in in double time, and aren't even particularly fun - that is it

20:31:26 mircea_popescu: heck, 50% of the 1st generation immigrants return home with the loot, marry and live there.

20:31:34 mircea_popescu: the retards - stay.

20:31:42 mircea_popescu: the rest just loot and leave.

20:31:48 asciilifeform: when there is what to loot..

20:31:54 mircea_popescu: which is ~why~ the libertard open border stuff doesn't work.

20:32:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for as long as china takes the coupons...

20:32:10 asciilifeform: (in more recent times, the 'loot' is in the form of bait, handed out monthly at welfare office)

20:32:26 decimation: it stands a prayer of working if someone gets nothing for 'just showing up'

20:32:37 mircea_popescu: no, it does not.

20:32:39 decimation: but that implies nobody gets paid just to exist

20:32:46 mircea_popescu: because the people you want don't want you, and the people you want you nobody wants.

20:33:06 decimation: yeah, there's some raw human truth there

20:33:10 mircea_popescu: myeah.

20:33:34 decimation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/28/us-finland-immigration-idUSKCN0Q22JJ20150728 < finland is going through this now

20:33:37 assbot: Thousands rally in Finland against lawmaker's anti-immigration remark | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qxG5 )

20:33:45 mircea_popescu: there hasn't yet in the history of mankind been a wealth marriage that was happy. and "free immigraton" is notexceptional just because large.

20:33:55 asciilifeform: decimation: they envy sweden its great mosques

20:34:01 decimation: some politicians suggesting that maybe it's not good to import africa wholesale in one generation isn't such a great idea

20:34:03 trinque: against racism lol

20:34:09 decimation: of course they are hateful racists for suggesting it

20:34:18 mircea_popescu: finnish chicks want the cock, what.

20:34:20 mircea_popescu: i can see it.

20:34:31 mircea_popescu: what';d you have them to, wait on rpietilla ?

20:34:46 asciilifeform: l0l!

20:34:50 jurov: is there any successful example of resisting immigration?

20:34:59 asciilifeform: Ze Supernoud Lifestyle

20:35:07 asciilifeform: jurov: japan.

20:35:14 asciilifeform: resists, to the bitter end.

20:35:17 asciilifeform: like real men.

20:35:19 decimation: ^ true

20:35:24 decimation: except they are not reproducing

20:35:41 asciilifeform: wake me up when they reach 1900 level and still drop

20:35:42 mircea_popescu: there's no resisting immigration. vienna fell. byzantium fell.

20:35:42 trinque: that's the economic side's fault

20:35:54 asciilifeform: what do we need the extra people post-1900 for anyway

20:35:58 decimation: where's that rammstein 'amerika' song

20:36:04 asciilifeform: ^

20:36:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1215885

20:36:20 assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 02:37:56; shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxroiTRg7Tg

20:36:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'there is no resisting ants and flies, giraffe fell, elephant fell'

20:37:05 mircea_popescu: quite so.

20:37:09 asciilifeform: but not from flies.

20:37:15 mircea_popescu: of course not.

20:37:29 mircea_popescu: the idea that immigration is the problem is braindamage of the level of thinking the maggots made the corpse.

20:37:43 mircea_popescu: somehow the immigrants weren't the problem back when azns were washing gold miner's shirts for a penny

20:37:59 mircea_popescu: and the irish fought the blacks for who's gonna polish knob tonight

20:37:59 asciilifeform: the only shred of logic in there is that the maggots sometimes do feast on living flesh

20:38:05 mircea_popescu: never.

20:38:11 mircea_popescu: in fact, fly maggots used to clean wounds.

20:38:22 mircea_popescu: they like live flesh about as much as you like birdshit.

20:38:25 asciilifeform: yes. and removed when they start to eat the living flesh

20:38:31 mircea_popescu: "the humans sometimes feast on the bird shit". i guess ?

20:38:31 asciilifeform: (they will, from lack of what else, eventually)

20:38:55 decimation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/19/dirt-poor-haitians-eat-mu_n_168339.html

20:38:56 assbot: Dirt Poor Haitians Eat Mud Cookies To Survive ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qGJx )

20:39:12 asciilifeform: decimation: i suppose they haven't any accordions to boil

20:39:13 mircea_popescu: is this more jenkem journalism from the jenkem journals ?

20:39:24 decimation: lol yeah where's jenkem

20:39:33 mircea_popescu: huffpo huffed it.

20:39:42 mircea_popescu: hence huffpopo.

20:39:43 decimation: no look it's in real media too http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2008/01/31/haitians_trick_empty_bellies_with_dirt_cookies/

20:39:44 assbot: Haitians trick empty bellies with dirt cookies - The Boston Globe ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qKZK )

20:39:45 asciilifeform: actually, iirc washpost huffed it

20:39:46 asciilifeform: in the '90s

20:40:11 asciilifeform: 'dirt cookie' was a favourite in chinese cultural revolution

20:40:28 asciilifeform: (there is ~some~ nutritious matter in the earth)

20:41:02 mircea_popescu: and vitamins!

20:41:18 mircea_popescu: thing is - there's more nutritious matter in shit.

20:41:23 mircea_popescu: especially if a rich dude shat it.

20:41:47 mircea_popescu: (for the obvious reason - what do you think earth is after all. microorganism digested shit)

20:41:49 decimation: re:immigrants -> it seems to me that there is a difference between "we have empty land that someone could show up and till" and "one more derp could survive on the scraps here"

20:42:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usually in china they put it through a pig first. but yes.

20:42:14 mircea_popescu: decimation the difference is whether you run pinkerton or welfare.

20:42:21 decimation: https://suite.io/vic-sanborn/3des2zr

20:42:22 assbot: Night-Soil Men, the Human Waste Collectors of Georgian London ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qXvX )

20:42:52 asciilifeform: ^ was big business esp. in the brief time when piss was boiled for nitrate

20:43:09 mircea_popescu: most of classical london consisted of a majority of "recyclers".

20:43:26 mircea_popescu: and a minority of tradesmen, moving goods on an abstract mercator map

20:43:31 asciilifeform: world's biggest unsurprise. of what is there most in a city? shit

20:43:44 mircea_popescu: well, these days it's "shitheads"

20:43:52 decimation: now we are too rich to care, apparently, just dig up more fossilized shit

20:44:00 asciilifeform: obligatory >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2014#552444

20:44:00 assbot: Logged on 09-03-2014 01:03:00; asciilifeform: 'Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought nothing out but loads of dung. That was their return cargo. London turns dirt into gold. Rome turne

20:47:23 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ?

20:48:31 mircea_popescu: "the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia authorized a search warrant" << for the record, this is not how it works. a judge authorises it, and im nary too enchanted by this tendency of individuals to hide behind imaginary shields.

20:55:56 decimation: asciilifeform: was thinking about that 'pcb card' problem. what if you terminated each trace into its own tank circuit, and then 'probed' the circuit with a vna?

20:56:25 decimation: each tank would resonate at a particular frequency, or not, if trace is not blown. could terminate into bnc

20:57:18 mircea_popescu: if you're going to do this why not measure inductance/harmonics/etc.

20:57:39 mircea_popescu: end up with a weird sort of ADC

20:58:01 decimation: yeah that's what I'm suggesting (complex impedance - part of which is inductance)

20:59:00 decimation: if one is clever, one could make the tank circuit out of pure pcb trace, making it cheaper. 'crosstalk' could be a problem though

20:59:43 jurov: inb4 "multilevel ROM" by placing resistors

21:00:03 mircea_popescu: ya lol

21:00:17 decimation: yeah but placing/removing components is a pain and expensive

21:00:39 mircea_popescu: what would be really great would be if your thing could somehow be made out of glass

21:00:56 mircea_popescu: you buy 6x6 inch panbes of glass and crash them

21:01:00 mircea_popescu: thatr's your secret key

21:01:09 decimation: heh

21:01:17 decimation: the breakage geometry you mean?

21:01:26 mircea_popescu: you plug the thing in whatever.

21:01:34 mircea_popescu: and measure its remaining connections

21:01:49 decimation: ah I see what you mean.

21:01:51 mircea_popescu: much better than a pcb, if can be had.

21:02:38 asciilifeform: decimation: crosstalk and rf

21:02:48 mircea_popescu: so you know... some people generate their keys at the firing range. some people have a designated bat. some people make a new key after each domestic argument/divorce

21:02:56 decimation: asciilifeform: sure, but those could be managed

21:03:07 asciilifeform: decimation: look into why analogue computer went away.

21:03:33 decimation: I get it, but I just wanna store some values, not compute derivatives

21:03:39 asciilifeform: the 'crushed glass secret key' was picked up by academitards as 'physically unclonable function'

21:04:01 asciilifeform: but it doesn't do any good unless there are 2 of'em (at minimum)

21:04:12 asciilifeform: (goes without saying that it is only good for symmetric crypto)

21:04:24 asciilifeform: break a glass rod.

21:04:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just an exotic way to rng, is in the end what he was trying to build

21:04:32 mircea_popescu: "take a pcb and scratch it"

21:04:36 asciilifeform: then sure

21:04:39 mircea_popescu: necessarily goes to "crush glass pane"

21:04:50 asciilifeform: just don't be surprised when it stops working when it is wet/cold/hot in the room

21:04:53 asciilifeform: or if different room

21:04:56 mircea_popescu: yawell.

21:05:05 asciilifeform: (see mircea_popescu's old 'dragonfly' article based on my conf-II chat)

21:05:57 asciilifeform: very often, folks forget just how much analogue strange there is in the world, that is kept (mostly) out of their digital computer

21:06:03 decimation: actually that gives me another idea: http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/lichtenbergs.html

21:06:05 assbot: What are Lichtenberg Figures, and how are they Made? ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ4XVi )

21:06:23 decimation: could make a lichtenberg figure key and use a camera to distill down into bits

21:07:27 asciilifeform: decimation: what is the point of it

21:07:35 asciilifeform: once 'distilled to bits', that'd be your key

21:07:35 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was thinking about generating key in a seperate machine and then 'hand-carving' the pcb to store key

21:07:52 asciilifeform: the reason why 'physical function' is that it ought to be precisely a ~function~

21:07:58 asciilifeform: that can be used as a one-time pad

21:08:15 asciilifeform: so can 'ask' the glass a 64-bit integer, and get another

21:08:20 decimation: I'm thinking about ways to manage key material that involve physical devices that can be inspected

21:08:25 asciilifeform: and your partner behind enemy lines asks same, and gets same answer.

21:08:52 asciilifeform: decimation: if that's all you want, get a 'sinclair'

21:09:02 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ? << That's a cazalla

21:09:17 decimation: asciilifeform: well, also I want to be reliable

21:09:24 decimation: sinclair uses floppies?

21:09:35 asciilifeform: can use sd card, with a little soldering

21:09:50 asciilifeform: incidentally,

21:09:55 *: asciilifeform has been greatly enjoying http://www.zxdesign.info/book

21:09:56 assbot: The ZX Spectrum ULA: How to design a microcomputer ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ5wyk )

21:10:08 asciilifeform: it is a priceless tour of 1980s chip design, among other things

21:10:34 decimation: oh I thought they used 6502 like everyone else

21:10:40 asciilifeform: z80

21:10:44 decimation: ah

21:10:46 asciilifeform: the other giant of the '80s

21:11:05 asciilifeform: anyway, the book is about the i/o chip

21:11:09 asciilifeform: not the cpu

21:11:18 asciilifeform: man does not live by cpu alone !

21:11:29 decimation: yeah the 'secret sauce' of the commadore was the video chip

21:11:59 asciilifeform: it was not an era of elusive 'sauces'

21:12:04 asciilifeform: but overall good design

21:12:14 decimation: yes.

21:12:15 asciilifeform: that doesn't reduce to 'xxxx chip'

21:12:43 decimation: based on that 'bil herd' interview, it sounds like the board designers and chip designers worked in same building, with fab!

21:12:48 asciilifeform: and consider also that, of all the toy computers, the one with the singularly worst design in every conceivable way, won.

21:12:59 decimation: because cheap.

21:13:04 asciilifeform: no, WAS NOT CHEAP

21:13:07 asciilifeform: either.

21:13:18 asciilifeform: but bezzle-annointed, yes

21:13:21 decimation: cheaper than s/360

21:13:26 asciilifeform: so it did not matter that it was a stinking pile of shit

21:13:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52911 @ 0.0005037 = 26.6513 BTC [-] {3}

21:13:33 asciilifeform: wasn't competing with s/360

21:13:41 asciilifeform: but with typewriter.

21:13:52 asciilifeform: and secretary (who did the job 10x better, but...)

21:14:22 decimation: true. people who wanted 'adult' computers in the 80's, had

21:14:28 decimation: or at least could get access to one

21:14:29 asciilifeform: http://www.oldcomputers.net/ibm5150.html << prices

21:14:33 assbot: IBM 5150 Personal Computer ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdODl5 )

21:14:50 asciilifeform: add a zero or so for modern usd.

21:15:16 decimation: yeah my dad paid about $1500 in 1989 dollars for x86 pc... 'epson apex'

21:15:33 asciilifeform: the thing was, in every respect, a 'soviet' production in the stereotypical western sense of the word

21:15:45 asciilifeform: it was made by folks who did not have any reason whatsoever to give a fuck re: quality or cost.

21:15:59 asciilifeform: who ~knew~ that they were winners as soon as they popped out of the womb

21:16:07 asciilifeform: and 'winners', naturally, win

21:16:35 asciilifeform: the ibm pc, recall, was that abomination where they didn't even bother to use dram chips that passed qa

21:16:46 asciilifeform: instead, 'deadbugging' several duds over one another

21:16:54 asciilifeform: to get a close approximation of one working unit

21:17:36 decimation: and yet still cost $3k 1981 dollars!

21:18:15 decimation: about $8k 2015 dollars

21:20:50 mod6: All: I've put some steps together for installing ubuntu 10.04 & debian 6.0.10

21:21:13 mod6: I've tested installing the iso's indicated on a VM and went through my own steps 2x (once for each OS)

21:21:47 mod6: if someone with some spare time can validate my findings that would be great -- these are just the first two of a number of these that need to be discovered/defined

21:22:05 mod6: http://dpaste.com/1TMGCVA.txt

21:22:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdPty7 )

21:22:08 decimation: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/IBM_System_36091.sj.jpg < ascii, entire machine state visible for inspection

21:22:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdPtyj )

21:22:24 asciilifeform: as on 'univac'

21:22:32 asciilifeform: and no, not whole state

21:22:35 asciilifeform: just the regs

21:22:44 decimation: well, yeah no storage

21:23:42 shinohai: mod6: I'll do a confirm this week.

21:23:51 mod6: shinohai: thanks!!

21:23:56 mod6: much appreciated

21:23:56 shinohai: nw

21:24:56 shinohai: I haven't got to build that latest yet though, still fails on boost every time.

21:26:30 asciilifeform: mod6: have you had a chance to build 'rotor' ?

21:27:09 mod6: no, not since i couldn't get it to build before. i'll try it again this coming week for sure.

21:27:58 asciilifeform: mod6: note that the toolchain and deps build only ever needs to be done once, per machine

21:28:15 asciilifeform: after that, it is precisely the same as working with 'stator'

21:28:17 decimation: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/26/the_identity_crisis_of_the_modern_zoo/ < amusing: "“If you asked somebody in our profession 10 years ago, ‘Is the gorilla happy?’, they would get really upset and say, ‘Why would you ask such an anthropomorphic question?’ ” said Kagan, 57. “But these sort of things now are legitimately a part of scientific study and assessment.”"

21:28:18 assbot: The identity crisis of the modern zoo - The Boston Globe ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ7sXQ )

21:28:34 mod6: asciilifeform: ok, thanks. so noted.

21:29:17 mod6: i.e. I dont have to rebuild the buildroot & "universe" every time I want to add a patch, just rebuild 'stator'.

21:29:44 decimation: you only really need to rebuild bitcoind if that's what you patched

21:30:00 asciilifeform: aha

21:30:01 decimation: just make sure you are using the correct paths

21:30:10 mod6: yeah, i was trying to say this: <+decimation> you only really need to rebuild bitcoind if that's what you patched

21:30:40 decimation: one nice thing about 'rotor' system: only one choice of build environment

21:30:49 mod6: right.

21:30:55 mod6: i like the allure of this.

21:31:31 asciilifeform: the main allure, for me, was 1) drepper goes to the furnace where he belongs; no glibc 2) can switch cpu arch by turning a knob

21:31:52 mod6: gotcha.

21:33:23 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fg0jw/could_a_cartel_of_pool_operators_collude_to/ctoh97g

21:33:24 assbot: luke-jr comments on Could a cartel of pool operators collude to 51%-attack the blockchain and/or change the protocol? ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ7QFR )

21:43:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00052762 = 5.1707 BTC [+]

21:54:28 asciilifeform: 'It is mid-boggling that a protocol that "handles assets worth billions of dollars" is defined only by a bloated C++ implementation -- maintaned by one company, that of course will not be responsible for any losses...'

21:54:30 asciilifeform: lulzy

21:59:42 williamdunne: jurov: What would you like on the Eurola website? Starting out with clisp so I'll see if I can get that done as my hello world project

22:00:29 jurov: marketplace with orders managed from irc

22:02:21 williamdunne: Wanna do a brief or summin?

22:02:59 asciilifeform: trinque, ben_vulpes, anyone else with 'clang' -- here's an idea, use the graph-walker solrodar used to determine the subset of openssl (see old thread re: same)

22:03:57 trinque: asciilifeform: maybe discernable with better lcov output too?

22:04:17 asciilifeform: trinque: see earlier thread today re: coverage

22:04:29 trinque: the lcov stuff would probably be more helpful with a battery of tests run upon it such as mod6 has discussed

22:04:29 asciilifeform: just because a line did not execute in ten billion hours does not mean that it could not

22:04:38 asciilifeform: have to prove that it is unreachable.

22:04:41 asciilifeform: before it can be cut.

22:04:52 trinque: yeah, true, this would call for static analysis to know it can be cut

22:05:07 asciilifeform: which is what i was talking about.

22:07:12 jurov: doesn't openssl use function pointers?

22:07:27 asciilifeform: does it ?

22:07:30 trinque: odeary me

22:07:37 *: trinque bbl

22:08:06 jurov: just asking, i wouldn't put it past them

22:10:27 williamdunne: jurov: I'm not sure how long I'll be around for, but if you drop me a doc outlining what you want I'll have a look at it tomorrow

22:10:46 asciilifeform: jurov: this kind of thing is at the root of a very old disagreement i have with mircea_popescu

22:11:06 asciilifeform: jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.

22:11:28 asciilifeform: because no one will ever fully nail down the function of the existing orchestra

22:11:42 asciilifeform: in such a way as to guarantee 100% compatibility

22:12:12 jurov: i remember

22:12:13 asciilifeform: my position is that this is reasonable, but what is unreasonable is to ever have more respect for a program than its author did.

22:12:19 jurov: williamdunne: eventually.

22:13:20 asciilifeform: and that if you are using a pile of shit which fits in no one's head, don't be surprised when the inevitable happens

22:13:35 asciilifeform: and that there is not a magical elixir that absolves you of the need to 'fit in head'

22:13:58 asciilifeform: all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions

22:14:24 asciilifeform: (note that i did not specify ~which~ head)

22:14:36 asciilifeform: but there has to be... ~a~ head.

22:25:09 asciilifeform: related...

22:25:11 asciilifeform: 'Overriding and updating old information is something I have to work really hard at. The end result of the way I think and the way the standard is defined is that I immediately saw these massively complex ways to do things that "nobody" understood. Take HyTime and what it calls "architectual forms" -- I vividly remember a long walk around a quiet Tallahassee one summer night with the creator of this concept, when I questione

22:25:12 asciilifeform: d some of the designs and how it would be implemented, and he was quiet for the longest time before he said that I was probably the first person to have understood what he was _really_ trying to accomplish. That would have been _such_ a great thing if it had been, say, rocket science, but it was not. It was a man-made complexity so great that it had required _months_ of brain-wracking to really get my intuition working. Tha

22:25:13 asciilifeform: t was the first time I had really serious doubts about the wisdom of SGML's structuring process, because the massive complexity of it all is _completely_ pointless and a result of spreading the semantics so thin that you had to keep mental track of an enormous number of relationships to end up with an idea of what something should do or mean. It does not have to be that way. It was _profoundly_ disappointing to discover that

22:25:17 asciilifeform: at the end of this long process of grasping something that looked intellectually challenging lie only a complexity that resulted from _rejecting_ simplicity of design at a few crucial points. Hell, it still took me years to figure out what alternatives they _should_ have picked up, and by then it was too late.'

22:25:22 asciilifeform: ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3207878053204561@naggum.net.html )

22:25:23 assbot: Re: XML and lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEOrah )

22:28:00 asciilifeform: '...But it is the same problem we find in C++. The question to be asked of massive complexity like that is not "what wonderful things did you find out that made this necessary", but "whatever did you _miss_ that made this so horribly complex"? You can sometimes see people who are really, really dumb go about some simple tasks in a way that tells you that they have arrived at their ways of performing it through an incredibly

22:28:00 asciilifeform: painful process that they are loathe to reopen or examine at all no matter how hard it is to get it right for them.'

22:33:39 punkman: asciilifeform: all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions << don't some things require more than a single head?

22:34:11 asciilifeform: no

22:34:29 asciilifeform: if something ~requires~ >1 head, it consists of separable things.

22:35:27 asciilifeform: i happen to believe that we have not yet devised the means for truly separating - conceptually - computer programs

22:36:04 asciilifeform: this is why, to return to earlier thread, pdp11 programmed by a single mind who writes every single instruction that the machine will ever execute, can be a jewel that is maintained for generations,

22:36:10 asciilifeform: while pdp11 with unix - loses linefeeds

22:36:14 asciilifeform: and evolves into what we have now

22:36:52 asciilifeform: and is a bottomless pit of 'nobody could have foreseen's

22:38:04 asciilifeform: observe the 'CRITICAL_SECTION' turds in bitcoind

22:38:18 asciilifeform: are those the work of a fella who truly, deeply understood what the machine is doing?

22:38:27 asciilifeform: who had a machine for which this claim could be made, even in principle ?

22:38:43 asciilifeform: or are they something else.

22:43:09 punkman: clearly not understood considering the number of results in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?q=deadlock&type=Issues

22:43:11 assbot: Search Results · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEREH5 )

22:44:08 asciilifeform: it is a result of the kind of cargocultism driven by justified and maniacal fear that leads, e.g., c programmers to pepper their code with redundant parenthesis

22:44:17 asciilifeform: (leading to a lifelong phobia of that key on the keyboard)

22:49:45 asciilifeform: my point, incidentally, was not that satoshi was a tard (though it may be)

22:50:10 asciilifeform: but that winblowz makes the kind of certainty needed to avoid the 'grasping for the handrails' described earlier, impossible

22:50:15 asciilifeform: and unix - marginally less so

22:50:42 punkman: Ada on bare metal then?

22:50:48 asciilifeform: for example.

22:52:45 asciilifeform: but also must be very particular, ~which~ metal

22:52:52 asciilifeform: read the src to linux's bootloader some time

22:53:02 asciilifeform: can you tell me which lines are actually necessary ?

22:53:05 asciilifeform: betcha you can't

22:53:13 asciilifeform: even if you took 'operating systems' at uni

22:53:27 asciilifeform: for instance, the 'a20 gate' is almost certainly not actually implemented in your chipset

22:53:36 asciilifeform: yet it is in EVERY MOTHERFUCKING BOOTLOADER on the planet

22:53:38 asciilifeform: even microshit's

22:53:44 asciilifeform: because wat if you have a 386, aha.

22:54:01 asciilifeform: much of this crud is quite like satoshi's 'critical sections'

22:54:10 asciilifeform: included because author has no fucking idea what is going on

22:54:22 asciilifeform: and cut&paste, because 'people have come to expect'

22:54:37 asciilifeform: or 'nobody was ever fired for making bootloader six bytes larger'

22:55:20 asciilifeform: and this shit adds up

22:55:37 asciilifeform: the notion that it doesn't, that it doesn't matter whether bootloader is six bytes of liquid shit heavier,

22:55:40 asciilifeform: is the fundamental lie.

22:55:48 asciilifeform: all of it - matters.

22:56:11 asciilifeform: the fact that x86 cpu has idiot ibm-mandated instructions for doing binary-coded-decimal - MATTERS

22:56:55 asciilifeform: the fact that there is no standardized chipset, and that x86 is really a loose collection of mostly-incompatible shitboxes that somehow pretend to run the same soft - matters.

22:57:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1086967 << see also.

22:57:34 assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 19:07:33; mircea_popescu: look. whatever whatever may be built as or not, i have two basic expectations. one is, for fucking machinery to behave the same way from night to next evening. the other, albeit weaker, is that if i get a "minimal work" thing i actually have to do minimal work.

23:04:23 kakobrekla: The BIOS in many personal computers stores the date and time in BCD because the MC6818 real-time clock chip used in the original IBM PC AT motherboard provided the time encoded in BCD. < heh

23:05:48 kakobrekla: compatible with the pyramids or what was it

23:08:04 mircea_popescu: contemptible with the pyramids.

23:15:27 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ < dragonfly article.

23:15:28 assbot: The complexity of life, a triad on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LZbV9r )

23:17:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222602 << fucking monitor was like 1200, cca 1985-86

23:17:24 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 21:15:16; decimation: yeah my dad paid about $1500 in 1989 dollars for x86 pc... 'epson apex'

23:17:50 mircea_popescu: or 120k of the romanian lei of the time. 50 or so salaries.

23:22:15 mircea_popescu: heh Luke-Jr fighting a loser's battle with his "bitcoin core" matters twu faith.

23:23:44 mircea_popescu: hey midnightmagic ask me things about things will you.

23:24:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222651 << total win.

23:24:10 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 22:00:29; jurov: marketplace with orders managed from irc

23:24:28 mircea_popescu: if jurov finally gets a proper chat system built in, and we have a chat bot that does auction lists etc...

23:24:40 mircea_popescu: eulora is suddenly more advanced than the state of new york.

23:26:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222669 << the problem is this : you have to verify old blocks. all of them, al lthe way to genesis. if you do not, for whatever reason, you are on an alt. and if you're going to make an alt, better make it properly and deliberately rather than the idiot woman "i had too much too drink so things happened" approach.

23:26:31 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 22:11:06; asciilifeform: jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.

23:29:25 mircea_popescu: but that aside, naggum's via alf point re complexity being usually and generally as a safe bet the result of someone missing the thinkboat certainly stands resplendent on its own feet.

23:31:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222718 << no, not "because what if you have a 386" but because a) does it work as is ? and b) do we know anyone who could cut it out and not introduce a bug ?

23:31:20 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 22:53:44; asciilifeform: because wat if you have a 386, aha.

23:31:25 mircea_popescu: same reason you have an appendix.

23:31:36 mircea_popescu: "hurts nothing and too hard to take out"

23:32:48 scoopbot_revived: The very very jealous with envy thing, part deux. http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-very-very-jealous-with-envy-thing-part-deux/

23:35:00 asciilifeform: yes, yes appendix.

23:35:10 asciilifeform: problem is, we're drowning in appendices

23:35:14 asciilifeform: and they all have appendicitis.

23:35:19 mircea_popescu: so it is.

23:36:11 mircea_popescu: every generation has this, an overpowering, indomitable reason why the previous one fails to matter.

23:36:39 mircea_popescu: for kids born in the 80s when talking to their parents it's "shut the fuck up, you fucked women in a single hole your entire life"

23:36:48 asciilifeform: as for the deliberate alt, it is somewhat like the ancient discussion about whether one would rather be 'scanned in' and shot and ~then~ replaced by the robot running the sim, or to have a neuron at a time replaced with electric one

23:36:52 mircea_popescu: and it stands. no man can look you in the face past that, for he's a sort of a toy.

23:36:57 asciilifeform: same result, but many more takers for the latter than the former.

23:37:17 mircea_popescu: but it goes all the way to the fucking celts, you knoiw, "you never had iron tools. everything you say, and everything you think you mean or stand for is therefore invalid"

23:37:26 asciilifeform: ^ well no shit

23:37:26 mircea_popescu: perhaps this is the next one.

23:37:31 mircea_popescu: "you can't code. fuck you."

23:37:54 asciilifeform: these words are uttered, yes, today. by childrenz who 'code' php...

23:38:08 mircea_popescu: it's not fucking magic, yo. utterance is not the glue that makes it stick.

23:38:20 asciilifeform: i see no glue, thus far. only the utterance.

23:38:43 mircea_popescu: we're discussing the future.

23:38:51 mircea_popescu: the reason you can not see the substance of the future should be apparent.

23:38:55 asciilifeform: 'what did the future ever do for me' (tm) (r)

23:38:58 mircea_popescu: >D

23:39:01 mircea_popescu: off to eat bbl

23:48:31 kakobrekla: It seems that evolution had not merely selected the best code for the task, it had also advocated those programs which took advantage of the electromagnetic quirks of that specific microchip environment. The five separate logic cells were clearly crucial to the chip’s operation, but they were interacting with the main circuitry through some unorthodox method < heh

23:49:26 kakobrekla: 'Furthermore, the final program did not work reliably when it was loaded onto other FPGAs of the same type.' < fun

23:50:53 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/iFfGs

23:50:54 assbot: losermcfail comments on A single political entity effectively has 57% control over Bitcoin's hashpower. What do we do about it? ... ( http://bit.ly/1N2UHGW )

23:51:02 hanbot: sounds like what asciilifeform was talking about.