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Transcript for 03-03-2016, 664 lines:

00:04:33 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

00:04:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 422.3, vol: 5801.00867275 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.816, vol: 7155.85995 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.69, vol: 17155.59828841 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 445.0, vol: 1.11745534 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 429.847446, vol: 77391.90040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.17, vol: 1344.72873428 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 425.44305, vol: 43.21277498 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

00:04:46 BingoBoingo: ;;more

00:04:47 gribble: 427.878368498

00:12:29 punkman: ;;interval

00:12:30 gribble: 553.8461538461539

00:15:23 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

00:15:27 gribble: Current Blocks: 400899 | Current Difficulty: 1.6349165490895926E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 401183 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

00:15:37 BingoBoingo: ;;mtbf

00:15:38 gribble: Error: "mtbf" is not a valid command.

00:23:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77580 @ 0.00056716 = 44.0003 BTC [+] {5}

00:24:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14658 @ 0.00056927 = 8.3444 BTC [+] {2}

00:28:21 shinohai: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-dream-of-buying-a-coffee-with-bitcoin-is-dying-if-its-not-already-dead-block-size-fees <<< lol this article

00:28:22 assbot: The Dream of Buying a Coffee With Bitcoin Is Dying, If It’s Not Already Dead | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVEat5 )

00:39:38 pete_dushenski: shinohai: heh. that dream has been deader than the animal fur on trump's head for 2 years and counting.

00:40:29 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/02/25/matters-of-bitcoin-merchant-adoption/ << pretty much summed up here

00:40:30 assbot: On Matters of Merchant Adoption | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1p02pfo )

01:43:31 asciilifeform: some gentoo lulz:

01:43:32 asciilifeform: * Messages for package www-client/chromium-48.0.2564.116:

01:43:32 asciilifeform: * There is NOT at least 3 GiB RAM

01:43:32 asciilifeform: * Space constraints set in the ebuild were not met!

01:43:59 asciilifeform: since when does an ebuild get to distinguish between physical ram and available total (incl. swap) ?

01:44:05 asciilifeform: and who the fuck permitted this.

01:44:20 asciilifeform: what MOTHERFUCKING BUSINESS is it of the port what kind of ram.

01:45:33 asciilifeform: l0l, reading the src, apparently I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING="true" cures...

01:46:07 phf: lunix on desktop! women in javascript! ubuntu!

01:46:43 asciilifeform: btw am i the only one who thinks of lumumba when hearing ubuntu ?

01:47:51 phf: you've got the socialist cheat sheet by way of having played this game before. others -- don't

01:48:32 BingoBoingo: ;;google How do I keep the squirrels in my yard away from my bird feeders

01:48:33 gribble: Solving Squirrel Problems at the Backyard Wild Bird Feeder ...: http://www.birdsforever.com/bird-feeder-squirrel-problems.html; Tips for Outwitting Squirrels - National Wildlife Federation: http://www.nwf.org/news-and-magazines/national-wildlife/birds/archives/2010/squirrels.aspx; Keeping Squirrels Off of Bird Feeder - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaJL0fAARfM

01:53:26 phf: it's like every american "knows" who ghandi is, but who's ever heard of nehru?

01:54:28 asciilifeform: an old officemate of mine (now deceased, he was in his 80s) was, for some perverse reason, very boastful of having known nehru personally.

01:54:38 asciilifeform: had whole notebook of photos.

01:54:54 asciilifeform: but - he was not an american.

01:55:15 asciilifeform: though he worked for 58 years for usg and was in 'plum book' (emeritus, or whatever the heathens call it)

01:55:29 asciilifeform: poor fella, kept showing up even though he was no longer on the org chart.

01:55:52 asciilifeform: (retired on account of 'tired of reviewing my own self every year, it is a ludicrous farce')

01:56:16 asciilifeform: nobody would turn him out, he had the keys and - theoretically - outranked everybody, incl. base commander.

01:56:21 asciilifeform: (or so he insisted.)

01:58:15 phf: do you know what hurree babu really wants? he wants to be made a member of the royal society by taking ethnological notes.

01:58:50 asciilifeform: aha!

01:59:30 asciilifeform: see also orwell's immortal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-02-2016#1416116

01:59:30 assbot: Logged on 26-02-2016 18:42:55; asciilifeform: '‘Ach, sir, it iss worse when they become refractory! One man, I recall, clung to the bars of hiss cage when we went to take him out. You will scarcely credit, sir, that it took six warders to dislodge him, three pulling at each leg. We reasoned with him. “My dear fellow,” we said, “think of all the pain and trouble you are causing to us!” But no, he would not listen! Ach, he wass very troub

02:06:06 asciilifeform: it was actually from.. i'll call him dr. plumbook,

02:06:11 asciilifeform: that i even learned that plum book existed.

02:06:31 asciilifeform: he was, (shock!) very boastful of being listed (at some, then recent, past) in it.

02:10:37 asciilifeform: i heard that when he died, the very few folks whose employment survived his retirement, were finally sacked.

02:11:30 phf: i know a lot of career bureaucrats through my parents, and most of them tend to be very proud of chance associations, mentions, friendships, etc. "of note"

02:11:47 asciilifeform: (for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.)

02:12:36 asciilifeform: phf: aha. also.

02:12:58 phf: i'm pretty sure gogol made a few jabs at this particular feature of bureaucrat caste

02:13:04 asciilifeform: for some reason, every orc has, flashed into his firmware, this secret dream of becoming usg bureaucrat.

02:13:07 asciilifeform: why - i do not know.

02:13:40 asciilifeform: phf: i actually have met americans who read, e.g., 'overcoat.' in transl.

02:13:46 asciilifeform: (but, naturally, drew no conclusions.)

02:14:14 BingoBoingo: For some reason Birdfeeders remind me of the Maryland city known as "James Lafond presents Baltimore" http://feederwatch.org/blog/tell-us-about-bird-behavior-at-your-feeder/

02:14:16 assbot: Tell us about bird behavior at your feeder - FeederWatch ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqnxS9 )

02:14:45 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.) << Or appointee (i.e. patronage position)

02:15:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: appointees are not fired in the usual sense, merely sent back to do some identical thing on a corp. board.

02:15:16 asciilifeform: where they come from.

02:15:33 asciilifeform: then the next fella gets a turn at setting up graft flow.

02:15:42 asciilifeform: (for his 'consultancy'.)

02:15:58 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Many are, but they first have to survive audition level appointment unless their scales are sufficiently silver

02:30:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37312 @ 0.00056954 = 21.2507 BTC [+]

02:55:00 mircea_popescu: phf> lunix on desktop! women in javascript! ubuntu! << you know eulora is pretty much 100% woman-made.

03:02:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> why - i do not know. <<it's the human love of variety. ends up making contrived shit seem appealing, especially to women (and castrated men, such as intellectuals and bureaucrats - which, by the way, are about the same thing)

03:03:36 mircea_popescu: every farm hottie in the mud envies the old lady her complex undergarments. blessfully unaware that the old lady needs the complex undergarments to mask the fact that there's no activity they'd get in the way of.

03:04:05 phf: mircea_popescu: but it's not written in javascript

03:04:16 mircea_popescu: damn close. c++

03:04:21 mircea_popescu: VERY BAD c++, also.

03:05:17 phf: pretty sure it's not these womens fault, eulora's upstream was "derps in gaming"

03:05:42 mircea_popescu: yup. slowly fixing it. but still.

03:06:09 *: jurov has after maybe a week of full lisp immersion managed to write a function that crashes eclisp cold. details withheld till i reproduce on another machine

03:06:25 mircea_popescu: this is your main talent, isn't it ?

03:06:26 jurov: and only 8 lines fitting in terminal!

03:07:10 jurov: yes, looks like that

03:07:37 phf: ftr i've worked with female programmers, on average not better or worse then males, who would've thought. i've also briefly worked with "women in javascript" and they are predominantly wreckers

03:08:46 mircea_popescu: phf usually "women in gaming" is a supercharged "women in javascript" thing. very politically driven drivel.

03:08:57 mircea_popescu: afaik eulora is strictly the only exception.

03:09:31 mircea_popescu: then again, gaming world is kinda opaque, who knows.

03:14:23 phf: friend of mine coined a term "tech dykes" years before it became a thing. bossy mostly lesbian girls who are good at pushing nerdy boys around, so work as program leads and agile consultants. but that was before there was a strong political component

03:15:35 mircea_popescu: this is a very good arrangement tho.

03:15:48 mircea_popescu: most gaming programmers are nerdy kids, hard to be motivated by males.

03:16:10 mircea_popescu: well, except if it's ben_vulpes

03:19:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420772 << iirc he employs gurlz

03:19:04 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 03:16:10; mircea_popescu: well, except if it's ben_vulpes

03:21:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00056937 = 13.0955 BTC [-]

04:04:42 asciilifeform: https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/thinkpad/led-inverter.shtml << interesting, strictly for aficionados

04:04:44 assbot: Thinkpad Hacking: LED Backlight Conversions ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqHl84 )

04:10:25 asciilifeform: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_a_QXGA_display_in_a_R/T60_or_61 << in the same vein. also interesting, in the sense of what a strong fuck-you this is to modern laptop makers

04:10:26 assbot: Installing a QXGA display in a R/T60 or 61 - ThinkWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqIpsC )

04:10:34 asciilifeform: 'we will maintain our beloved boxes forever'

05:24:13 danielpbarron: ;; later tell trinque please to add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ to deebot blogs

05:24:17 assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )

05:24:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:38:24 BingoBoingo: Fucking hamplanet enablers http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/10/30/obese-crash-test-dummies/18168679/

05:38:25 assbot: Like drivers, crash-test dummies are becoming obese ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9Kqz6 )

05:44:24 BingoBoingo: Mayo privilege is being able to travel to places your body doesn't fit https://i.imgur.com/E4B4rOh.jpg

05:44:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9L6Vl )

05:45:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32215 @ 0.00056611 = 18.2372 BTC [-] {2}

05:50:02 *: BingoBoingo not sure if Qntra worthy, anyone got an angle? http://news.softpedia.com/news/sea-pirates-hacked-shipping-company-to-find-valuable-cargo-501268.shtml

05:53:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27351 @ 0.00056936 = 15.5726 BTC [+] {2}

06:11:41 BingoBoingo: More Empire of Fee-Fees https://archive.is/HHUeo

06:11:42 assbot: Algebra II has to go. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QNdwOw )

06:12:31 BingoBoingo: ?It?s not the same,? I told him. ?Reading fiction builds empathy.?

06:50:55 phf: well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity

06:52:47 phf: dana goldstein her husband andrei scheinkman, andrew hacker and his "domestic partner" claudia dreifus, just leave these names here, for the log

06:52:58 phf: *leaving

06:54:05 phf: andrew hacker wrote an opinion article in the new york times in 2012 where he did a test run of this idea, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html

06:54:08 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1VRYfA8 )

06:56:28 BingoBoingo: Seriously though, where does this "citizen statistics" come from?

06:56:42 BingoBoingo: How do you get statistics without Algebra?

06:57:47 phf: "It could, for example, teach students how the Consumer Price Index is computed, what is included and how each item in the index is weighted — and include discussion about which items should be included and what weights they should be given."

06:58:04 phf: "I hope that mathematics departments can also create courses in the history and philosophy of their discipline, as well as its applications in early cultures. Why not mathematics in art and music — even poetry — along with its role in assorted sciences? The aim would be to treat mathematics as a liberal art, making it as accessible and welcoming as sculpture or ballet."

06:58:19 phf: ^- that's how

06:59:49 BingoBoingo: mathematics in music is called musical theory and already a class sequence

07:02:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00056611 = 25.9561 BTC [-] {2}

07:07:25 BingoBoingo: It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class

07:09:34 phf: speaking of ballet, i went to see Mariinsky Ballet company perform at jfk center, place was packed, tickets were sold out months in advance, cheapest of them >$100. the company comes to u.s. once a year, brings one production, performs for one week. they are masters of their craft, with rigorous, brutal training regime and a demanding director. and it shows! meanwhile "accessible" american ballet is by and large mediocre, using

07:09:35 phf: "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.

08:43:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2473 @ 0.00056625 = 1.4003 BTC [+]

08:50:49 ben_vulpes: how the fuck is ballet accessible

08:51:52 ben_vulpes: ballet is 'start when you're five and dedicate your life to it and 95% of you will fail to accomplish anything in the art even after doing so through your mid twenties at which point your body will be ruined and your mind will have forgone all education in pursuit of the art"

08:53:24 ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"

08:53:46 ben_vulpes: serra, pardon

08:55:29 ben_vulpes: https://www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/october-27-2009--richard-serra ehehueh it's a vagina

08:55:31 assbot: Richard Serra - October 27 - December 23, 2009 - Gagosian Gallery ... ( http://bit.ly/1oR9WfK )

09:00:17 ben_vulpes: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/richard-serra-in-the-qatari-desert << another point on the 'what is art' curve and discussion

09:00:18 assbot: Richard Serra in the Qatari Desert - The New Yorker ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRan9R )

10:29:41 cazalla: evenin'

10:34:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00056752 = 19.9767 BTC [+]

11:08:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00056726 = 15.9967 BTC [-] {3}

11:26:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15419 @ 0.000567 = 8.7426 BTC [-]

11:48:09 punkman: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/mosul-dam-engineers-warn-it-could-fail-at-any-time-killing-1m-people

11:48:10 assbot: Mosul dam engineers warn it could fail at any time, killing 1m people | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21JqgxB )

11:48:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00056694 = 24.095 BTC [-] {2}

11:52:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19950 @ 0.00056751 = 11.3218 BTC [+] {2}

12:02:26 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.12911122 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $900 before Sep 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1251/bitcoin-to-top-900-before-sep-2016/#b8

12:02:36 punkman: http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/29457/1/in-1998-this-webcam-woman-was-the-most-famous-person-online

12:02:36 assbot: In 1998 this webcam woman was the most famous person online | Dazed ... ( http://bit.ly/1UB7HK0 )

12:12:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00056752 = 16.8553 BTC [+]

12:59:43 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 9.99990000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b136

13:12:11 asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661 << interesting

13:12:12 assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )

13:12:31 asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking transparency besides empowered

13:12:31 asciilifeform: attackers?'

13:13:18 asciilifeform: ^ for some reason i thought it was obvious that bitbet ~did~ win from publishing actual, live bet addrs

13:13:37 asciilifeform: (shows that the thing is actually real, in real time)

13:16:10 asciilifeform: now the root of the matter is, the miners do not particularly relish being publicly called the vermin they are. and if they weren't specifically taking aim at tmsr, they will at some point work up the nerve, and do so. 'whatchagonnado about it.'

13:18:23 asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.

13:22:55 shinohai: "Bitcoin was designed and is intended to work with anonymous addresses" <<< but thought addresses weren't completely anonymous anyway.

13:26:42 trinque: deedbot-: feed add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/

13:26:47 assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )

13:26:56 trinque: deedbot-: feeds add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/

13:27:00 assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )

13:27:00 deedbot-: http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ added.

13:28:02 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] Hello world! - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/hello-world/

13:28:02 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] A Minor Problem - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/a-minor-problem/

14:10:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34823 @ 0.00056611 = 19.7136 BTC [-] {2}

14:32:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00056611 = 1.5285 BTC [-]

14:37:16 hanbot: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420258 << or just as well, mp attacking a specific cartelism.

14:37:16 assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 16:58:23; asciilifeform: d bet money that there is some peculiar mpbism that is being exploited here.

14:41:49 BingoBoingo: Win http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/0350241/incident-raises-concerns-about-a-more-formal-spec-for-bitcoin

14:41:51 assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRQmA4 )

14:48:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21750 @ 0.00056751 = 12.3433 BTC [+] {2}

14:55:04 kakobrekla: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 < aha

14:55:06 assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )

14:59:16 mircea_popescu: soo s.mg report edited to include deedbot link.

14:59:28 mircea_popescu: i think that's how warrants etc are going to go from now on. deedbot ftw.

15:01:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420789 << it is pretty lulzy, in a meta sort of way.

15:01:09 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 05:50:02; *: BingoBoingo not sure if Qntra worthy, anyone got an angle? http://news.softpedia.com/news/sea-pirates-hacked-shipping-company-to-find-valuable-cargo-501268.shtml

15:03:27 mircea_popescu: holy shit sherlock, hey BingoBoingo check out slashdot comprehending things!

15:03:27 mircea_popescu: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627819

15:03:29 assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1yHqf )

15:06:04 kakobrekla: meanwhile http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/ confirms he is the author of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420854

15:06:09 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 14:55:04; kakobrekla: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 < aha

15:06:36 mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895

15:06:37 assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1zhUQ )

15:07:13 jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.

15:07:14 *: mircea_popescu fights the urge to skip ahead in teh log.

15:07:49 jurov: or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?

15:08:14 jurov: even then, the trashing would make the machine unusable for a ~hour

15:08:57 jurov: so, it's there for a reason.

15:09:14 mircea_popescu: "It drives dropout rates and is mostly useless in real life. Andrew Hacker has a plan for getting rid of it." dude, seriously ?! "stem myth" ? that place is so set for greatness. and i mean greatness literally.

15:09:35 mircea_popescu: jurov wow, what the hell is in those 10gb ?!

15:09:58 mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?

15:11:32 mircea_popescu: "Only mathematicians and some engineers actually use advanced math in their day-to-day work, Hacker argues?even the doctors, accountants, and coders of the future shouldn?t have to master abstract math that they?ll never need." [and could one day use to find out some unsavory facts about the best possible castle in the world!"

15:12:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.

15:12:24 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 06:50:55; phf: well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity

15:12:33 jurov: mircea_popescu: ask google

15:12:35 mircea_popescu: like in that joke with the drunk and the samovar. you know it ?

15:13:04 mircea_popescu: ;;google largest three items on chromium profile by ram

15:13:05 gribble: Chromium (web browser) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser); Out of memory handling - The Chromium Projects: https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/out-of-memory-handling; Hard Drive filling up? Check Chrome's File System folder - gHacks ...: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/24/hard-drive-filling-up- (1 more message)

15:13:33 mircea_popescu: you see jurov, google is next to useless for any purpose that involves having taken algebra II. all it can do is help you build empathy.

15:14:25 jurov: and i did not profile it, just looked on top output

15:14:41 mircea_popescu: a ok.

15:16:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420800 << it's not "statistics and citizenship" as anything but "this is what you must believe about statistics to be a citizen".

15:16:16 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 06:56:42; BingoBoingo: How do you get statistics without Algebra?

15:16:25 BingoBoingo: ok

15:16:52 mircea_popescu: sort-of trying to chinese cartel the electoral process, pretty much.

15:17:37 jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question

15:17:50 mircea_popescu: "you can have your own opinions, but we want to move from this situation where harvard & mit lied to you about you being smart enough to resolve any real word conondrum 'if you just got the facts [as officially branded facts by harvard and mit]'" to a much more economical "you can have your own opinions just as long as they're what we say they should be".

15:17:57 jurov: so it's prolly the same with chromium's javascript engine

15:18:37 mircea_popescu: centralization of opinion mining being inevitable, given that the problem of university financing is irresolvable. (see for instance http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2016#1413495 thread)

15:18:37 assbot: Logged on 23-02-2016 08:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-02-2016#1413406 << basically us "college" chumpatron still experimenting with "what's the lowest qty of candy bar we give the cattle to keep getting the sweet sweet usg funds for them. like, out of the 100k per capita we get in fed funny money, what's the least we could dole out to the maggots in whose name the whole scheme is run ? maybe -100`000 in paper and $

15:19:06 mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?

15:19:14 mircea_popescu: i'm just curious for my own culture here.

15:19:47 jurov: yes, surely all the HTML5 and older(like DOM) functionality

15:34:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420806 << ironically, the shit they're talking about is some of the harshest, least touchty feely shit out there. ballet, seriously ? have these people EVEN SEEN a ballerina in their life ?

15:34:27 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 07:07:25; BingoBoingo: It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class

15:34:53 mircea_popescu: chick's tougher than coffin nails, right in there with the she-marine. heck, they still use beatings to this day to loosen the girlies up.

15:35:18 mircea_popescu: like it or not, the tendons won't give unless you get physical. you can talk yourself hoarse, it dun do anything.

15:37:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << cascadia coming to the mp notions of "What is art" i take it ?

15:37:32 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"

15:37:53 jurov: now something for lisp afficionados: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/225 #TheShitJurovDoes #BackdooringEulora

15:37:55 assbot: this simple function always segfaults - at least on linux amd64 (#225) · Issues · Embeddable Common-Lisp / ECL · GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1F3WH )

15:38:55 mircea_popescu: waitwut

15:40:27 jurov: i came around this in course of embedding lisp in eulora client

15:40:42 jurov: such backdoor would be very convenied, dontcha think

15:40:48 mircea_popescu: jurov dude you trolled me ? i mistook eul- to be a function defined in eulora space pinged DianaComan about it lmao

15:40:52 jurov: *convenient

15:41:13 jurov: hahaha

15:41:21 mircea_popescu: god damn...

15:42:33 mircea_popescu: jurov apparently it was already reported. kochmanski says 159 (fixed 16.1.2)

15:42:38 mircea_popescu: LAME SHIT

15:44:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420851 << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners...

15:44:05 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 14:41:49; BingoBoingo: Win http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/0350241/incident-raises-concerns-about-a-more-formal-spec-for-bitcoin

15:44:08 mircea_popescu: ftr anacam was as close to driving culture as the times and potus aspire to be and occasionally manage.

15:44:35 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420865 << lolwut

15:44:35 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:06:36; mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895

15:44:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420867 << it's a laptop, i don't care if it takes a week

15:44:55 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:13; jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.

15:45:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420869 << 1/2 tb of ssd

15:45:07 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:49; jurov: or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?

15:45:28 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420874 << does mircea_popescu remember what happens when you use a profiler ?

15:45:28 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:09:58; mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?

15:45:36 mircea_popescu: shush, you.

15:45:37 asciilifeform: (10-50x runtime & space)

15:45:38 asciilifeform: l0l

15:46:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420876 << many children cry into books, this is normal. but now there is 'advocacy!11111'

15:46:24 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:12:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.

15:47:23 mircea_popescu: let them cry into their fiction books like normal people.

15:48:09 mircea_popescu: romanian school has a whole curricula in literature dedicated to making the kiddies cry. this is well and good and the ~only way.

15:48:42 asciilifeform: i recall,

15:48:44 asciilifeform: !s fefeleaga

15:48:45 assbot: 17 results for 'fefeleaga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fefeleaga

15:49:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420831 << holy shit.

15:49:01 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:11; asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661 << interesting

15:49:03 jurov: re: duplicate bugreport.. perhaps i envied you being target of lizard hitler pranks, and imagined myself finally being targeted

15:49:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420889 << mega-unsurprise.

15:49:19 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:17:37; jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question

15:49:21 mircea_popescu: which one of you has the miserably poor taste of impersonating the dead woman ?

15:49:32 asciilifeform: i was wondering about that ^

15:50:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420894 << the thing is larger than just about any os, possibly even microshit's, and who the fuck knows or whether it is even knowable.

15:50:45 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:19:06; mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?

15:50:55 mircea_popescu: no but on second pass this is actually correct, isn't it. ~I~ have been breaking the protocol with that design, indiscutably.

15:50:55 asciilifeform: quite possibly most of it is not even identifiable mass.

15:50:59 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you seen this ?

15:51:51 kakobrekla: seen what ?

15:52:40 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661

15:52:41 assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )

15:53:18 kakobrekla: yes i have seen it, nothing i can do about it.

15:53:30 mircea_popescu: so basically, yeah bla bla, miners can force "either doublepay or never pay" dilemma, but ~not on everyone~. only on derps who, like mp, actually publish the whole story.

15:53:49 mircea_popescu: listen kakobrekla can we modify the way bitbet works to actually satisfy this ? something like

15:53:53 mircea_popescu: hm.

15:54:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they can still blacklist addrs

15:54:39 mircea_popescu: say paid out bets are published as now, but proposed bets only show first 4 chars of the address, and only first two digits of the payment. except if under 0.01 it's just replaced with D

15:54:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which ?

15:55:31 mircea_popescu: and yes, publish a sha of the whole list as-is somewhere on page also. so people can then verify at tyhe end.

15:55:40 mircea_popescu: tho prolly this should have a secret salt also.

15:55:47 mircea_popescu: jesus cryptomoney is tough.

15:56:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whichever they happen to dislike.

15:56:15 asciilifeform: problem remains unsolved

15:56:22 mircea_popescu: as the commenter says, this does nothing for bitcoin, merely for bitbet.

15:57:51 mircea_popescu: of course large payments remain a problem - not so many double digit btc moving around to an address with the following 4 chars.

15:58:27 asciilifeform: aha.

15:58:36 asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.

15:58:46 asciilifeform: i can think of 1,001 variations on this theme.

15:59:03 mircea_popescu: gah.

15:59:20 mircea_popescu: as usual - centralist power is the enemy of free commerce.

15:59:24 asciilifeform: the solution to toddler-with-machinegun is not moar armour.

15:59:28 mircea_popescu: who knew how fucking deep in the rules of the world this principle is baked

16:00:07 kakobrekla: i find the comment from 'sturle' much more interesting.

16:00:25 mircea_popescu: reading

16:01:56 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47712

16:01:57 assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1K9lD )

16:02:58 mircea_popescu: no argument that it ~could~ be a so and so node. all sorts of things could be all sorts of other things. like the moon landing photos could be fake, and so on.

16:03:03 mircea_popescu: there's no argument to be had with a could.

16:06:38 mircea_popescu: !up sturles

16:06:41 mircea_popescu: hola.

16:06:46 sturles: HepP!

16:06:54 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot sturles

16:06:54 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user sturles: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sturles | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/

16:07:10 mircea_popescu: you have enough trust, whenever you want to speak here you should pm assbot "!up" and decrypt the dpaste.

16:07:20 mircea_popescu: give it back to him with !v <contents>

16:07:41 sturles: OK!

16:07:44 kakobrekla: i asked him to join to answer the questions from qntra

16:07:45 kakobrekla: >If you are proposing that you are actually running a node which keeps all 0-fee txn for a week plus, I very much would like to know what machine are you running, and when's the last time you realised what an incredible DoS mechanism this is.

16:07:50 mircea_popescu: aha!

16:08:17 sturles: I don't keep them all. Only the ones with the highest priority.-

16:08:29 mircea_popescu: so how long is the longest you keep a txn ?

16:08:41 sturles: I don't have a time limit.

16:08:56 mircea_popescu: so then how does A2 have a lower priority than A1 ?

16:09:17 sturles: Transactions are evicted by fee or priority alone.

16:09:27 mircea_popescu: right ?

16:10:05 sturles: It doesn't matter if A2 has higher or lower priority than A1. As long as A1 is in my mempool, a tx spending any of A1's inputs will be rejected.

16:10:16 fluffypony: it's a davout: https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/705415833833619456

16:10:22 fluffypony: and "Galvin" Andresen

16:10:39 mircea_popescu: sturles if you keep 0fee txn without time limit, you are necessarily running on a machine with infinite ram.

16:10:46 mircea_popescu: if there IS a time limit, what is it.

16:10:58 sturles: Right now my mempool has: "mempoolminpriority": 142186611.6926576,

16:11:11 mircea_popescu: and how do you calculate the priority ?

16:11:30 sturles: Which means that every tx with priority below 142186611.6926576 will be thrown out of the priority pool, and into the fee based pool.

16:11:41 mircea_popescu: and if it's a 0fee tx, thrown out altogether ?

16:12:23 sturles: Standard priority calculations. size of input * age of input for all inputs, then divided by the size of the transaction.

16:12:29 sturles: Size in bytes.

16:12:35 sturles: Size of inputs in BTC.

16:12:40 mircea_popescu: right. by this calculation, the tx in question would not have remained in your pool.

16:12:57 mircea_popescu: if you recall kakobrekla at the time it was merely broadcast and "not yet included" (in the public version of the blockchain), it had a very low priority.

16:13:15 sturles: 0 fee tx are thrown out if the priority is lower than what is required. Currently 142186611.6926576.

16:13:21 kakobrekla: why would it have low priority?

16:13:25 mircea_popescu: sturles this one was never 100mn.

16:14:09 sturles: OK. I don't know anything about the tx in question. How old were the inputs?

16:14:28 sturles: Size in BTC is in satishi. Age in number of confirmations.

16:14:34 sturles: *satoshi

16:15:06 kakobrekla: txid de9bc173174f5ae97e7fe0d2e171647cade189c76f9cbe48f37494c973aca2e4

16:15:14 mircea_popescu: ^

16:16:30 sturles: priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes

16:17:17 kakobrekla: and just sum the discrete inputs ages ?

16:17:30 mircea_popescu: no, sum the product

16:18:09 sturles: The transaction has one 3 month old input of 15.898 BTC. This alone may be enough to push the priority high enough.

16:18:16 kakobrekla: anyway, sturles is giving us his current mempoolminpriority, which doesnt mean it was the same a week ago.

16:18:33 mircea_popescu: yeah but for practical reasons doesn't also vary too much, or you get drowned.

16:18:56 mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.

16:19:15 mircea_popescu: ie, 84% of txn in the mempool had a higher priority.

16:19:20 mircea_popescu: of the ~50mb mempool, that is.

16:19:52 sturles: Mu mempool is 1 GB with 300MB reserved for high priority..

16:20:03 mircea_popescu: (obviously because no protocol there is no actual definition of "mempool size" other than rough consensus, but wehartevers)

16:20:19 sturles: It isn't full now, btw.

16:20:35 mircea_popescu: yeah, mempool is low now for some reason, across the board.

16:20:56 mircea_popescu: since ~yesterday, fell of a cliff. who knows.

16:21:04 sturles: There was a spam attack, which stopped.

16:21:15 mircea_popescu: that ~could~ be the explanation, sure.

16:22:52 mircea_popescu: for the curious, mempool was as high as 80mb during february, but recently it's ~8 or so.

16:23:08 mircea_popescu: (recently ie, in march)

16:26:34 sturles: Where is this number from? Mine is:

16:26:36 sturles: "size": 41322,

16:26:36 sturles: "bytes": 424008174,

16:26:36 sturles: "usage": 913135280,

16:26:41 kakobrekla: according to some; http://i.imgur.com/BdJFEc1.png

16:26:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/21K85Yz )

16:27:34 mircea_popescu: sturles from my own nodes' estimation of what the "mempool" is currently.

16:27:47 mircea_popescu: built on the basis of what other nodes advertise as txn

16:28:20 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla haha is that yours ?

16:28:26 kakobrekla: no

16:28:31 mircea_popescu: nuts.

16:28:53 kakobrekla: its what 'tradeblock' reports

16:30:29 mircea_popescu: check that out, "TradeBlock serves financial institutions with execution and analysis tools that capitalize on the potential of blockchain technologies."

16:34:37 sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amount of them..

16:35:10 *: kakobrekla has to run bbl

16:35:17 mircea_popescu: it's a cheap hack, made sense at the time

16:35:19 mircea_popescu: (2010 ?)

16:36:21 sturles: Back in 2010 there was no eviction in place. Valid transactions stayed in the mempool until mined. Various eviction strategies have been tried for the last couple of years.

16:36:51 mircea_popescu: i don't recall when this "3 day" thing got introduced, but longer than coupla years ago i think.

16:36:53 mircea_popescu: anyway.

16:37:24 deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/

16:40:30 mircea_popescu: !up sturles

16:40:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're curious, what trb is contemplating to eventually do is a ring buffer with a per-kb fee only as the criteria.

16:40:56 mircea_popescu: been discussed a coupla times in the logs.

16:44:12 sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.

16:44:42 mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer

16:44:55 mircea_popescu: also miserably implemented, but then again it is prb.

16:45:18 sturles: There is no priority included in the calculations for mempool eviction in 0.12.

16:45:30 mircea_popescu: right, there is that part.

16:46:21 mircea_popescu: i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.

16:46:22 mircea_popescu: oops.

17:04:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw im getting report yes ?

17:05:11 asciilifeform: aha!

17:05:47 asciilifeform: as soon as i get back into cockpit actually.

17:07:27 mircea_popescu: cool deal.

17:09:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421058 << why do this in bursts ?!

17:09:10 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.

17:09:14 asciilifeform: why not continuously.

17:09:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421059 << aha, this

17:09:25 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:42; mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer

17:09:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421063 << l0l

17:09:42 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.

17:10:07 mircea_popescu: two leaf clovers, don't get too excited.

17:10:24 asciilifeform: aw.

17:11:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421047 << the mempool system is screamingly idiotic, since day 1

17:11:24 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:34:37; sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amou

17:12:09 asciilifeform: incidentally, wtf does prb think it's doing re: tx fee ordering, when it ACCEPTS MOTHERFUCKING ORPHANS !??!!!

17:12:25 asciilifeform: srsly, orphan-with-fee counts the same as real-thing-with-fee ?!

17:12:52 *: mircea_popescu notices BingoBoingo's sig starts with ADD

17:13:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shush you, it's not supposed to make algebra-2-sense. it's from the statistics-and-citizensheep textbook.

17:13:40 asciilifeform: uhuh.

17:13:54 mircea_popescu: do you feel included yet ?

17:14:09 asciilifeform: envaginated.

17:14:17 mircea_popescu: strangely, that doesn't seem to ever count.

17:14:31 asciilifeform: hm?

17:14:34 mircea_popescu: somehow, the fact that any system trying to "include everyone" necessarily excludes the best and brightest is never a concern.

17:14:50 mircea_popescu: da fuck is with these idiots. "oh, there's fewer of those" o ya ? guess what - there's fewer of niggers and jews, also.

17:15:03 asciilifeform: uncle al beat this subj to death.

17:15:10 asciilifeform: !s officially sad

17:15:11 assbot: 3 results for 'officially sad' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=officially+sad

17:15:13 mircea_popescu: so he did.

17:15:14 asciilifeform: hm

17:15:21 asciilifeform: anyway it's in the collected al.

17:15:23 asciilifeform: riotously.

17:15:44 mircea_popescu: i claim no ownership interest in the notion. it's so outrageous a tree somewhere in the forest prolly said somethingat some point.

17:16:27 asciilifeform: in unrelated nyooz, i happen to have carried out a successful experiment re: depoetteringization of a modern gentoo

17:16:42 asciilifeform: will assemble, some time next week prolly, a cookbook, if anyone is interested.

17:16:54 asciilifeform: should also be, theoretically, applicable to bsd

17:17:00 asciilifeform: or any other 100% source-based animal.

17:17:40 asciilifeform: if it is not clear, i am speaking not simply of systemd removal, but dbus et al.

17:17:53 asciilifeform: the whole tumourous affair.

17:18:19 mircea_popescu: o yes please.

17:18:24 asciilifeform: in such a way that the ports tree remains untangled, and the crud is not constantly knocking at the door to come back in.

17:18:36 mircea_popescu: i will have the harem hum your nick during sex for a week in recognition.

17:18:40 asciilifeform: l0lz

17:24:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet

17:24:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSWdSu )

17:25:09 mircea_popescu: i think i'll wait for the whole thing ?

17:25:17 asciilifeform: it took a good bit of sweat, to derive this kill list.

17:25:20 asciilifeform: and it works. 100%.

17:25:40 asciilifeform: trinque, ben_vulpes, phf, et al ^^

17:25:57 mircea_popescu: yay. will defo test it. say when to do so.

17:26:15 asciilifeform: now use flags only function under gentoo. but the way they work is to translate into particular configure args when building

17:26:24 asciilifeform: and so could be, theoretically, used on bsd

17:26:28 asciilifeform: or a future v-based distro.

17:26:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can test now. everything else install per handbook.

17:26:57 asciilifeform: (but eschew grub2.)

17:27:17 mircea_popescu: so rather than a preliminary it's actually the thing ?

17:27:20 mircea_popescu: !up sturles

17:27:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is the chicken in the recipe, yes.

17:27:38 sturles: asciilifeform: Because it takes some time to do it for large mempools, I suppose. I think child fees are taken into account as well, but not sure about that.

17:27:45 asciilifeform: whole thing would consist of a step-by-step cookbook.

17:28:01 asciilifeform: but this is really all ~i~ would have needed.

17:28:11 mircea_popescu: sturles what was that otp thing ?

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-february-2016-statement/ << and jurov 8335 s.qntr added.

17:29:06 assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnOBny )

17:29:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the given magic will take you to, e.g., fully-functioning x11 emacs, irc clients, etc. that build sans dbus.

17:29:28 sturles: My gmail key is signing only. Not useable for encryption. Made it just for #bitcoin-otc.

17:29:34 asciilifeform: even wwwtrons.

17:29:48 mircea_popescu: sturles that's kind-of a problem then, you can't voice here.

17:30:16 sturles: asciilifeform: getrawmempool true reports for every transaction: descendantcount, descendantsize and descendantfees, indicating that it at least knows about it.

17:30:40 asciilifeform: sturles: what is this about ?

17:31:13 mircea_popescu: apparently his wot key is defective, can't decrypt assbot pad

17:31:19 sturles: 18:09 <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421058 << why do this in bursts ?!

17:31:19 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.

17:31:56 asciilifeform: sturles: what do you mean, 'at least knows about it' ??

17:32:07 sturles: I should change my key in #bitcoin-otc to the sturle@bitmynt.no key..

17:32:25 asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu the gentoo was tested on a x60 tp.

17:32:31 asciilifeform: which is now very happy.

17:32:31 sturles: It knows about the fee rate of the children of unconfirmed transactions.

17:32:44 sturles: Helps for child-pays-for-parent in mining.

17:32:55 mircea_popescu: oh ffs.

17:33:08 asciilifeform: sturles: holy fuck, do you understand how a tx that is not linkable to ACTUAL BLOCK is a ~work of fiction~ ??!!!

17:33:20 asciilifeform: !s orphan tx

17:33:20 assbot: 10 results for 'orphan tx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orphan+tx

17:33:22 mircea_popescu: fucking evil bs, child pays for parent, let's invent OTHER ways to import meaningless state into bitcoin and fuck it all up

17:33:26 sturles: If a transaction pays too low fees to get included, and you spend an output of the transaction with a high fee, a miner may want to mine both.

17:34:16 asciilifeform: sturles: you do not see the basic problem with taking a tx on faith ?

17:34:23 asciilifeform: for whatever purpose.

17:34:33 mircea_popescu: maybe if wot-ed nodes...

17:34:34 sturles: People spend unconfirmed outputs all the time. Bitcoin Core even does it by itself, if the output was generated by yourself.

17:34:49 mircea_popescu: sturles yes, and THAT IS A BUG IN PRB.

17:34:51 asciilifeform: sturles: trb WON'T ACCEPT a tx with even ONE unconfirmed input.

17:34:53 asciilifeform: do you know this ?

17:34:57 asciilifeform: i did this.

17:35:03 asciilifeform: try to understand WHY.

17:35:06 sturles: We are not talking about orphans here, since we have the parent in the mempool.

17:35:25 asciilifeform: if it is in the mempool, it is not a parent !

17:35:26 mircea_popescu: this argument has some merit, but it's really contrary to bitcoin.

17:35:29 asciilifeform: it is a fetus.

17:35:53 asciilifeform: it might BECOME a parent, ~when it grows up~

17:35:55 sturles: Well, you may call it a fetus. A miner can choose to give birth to both in the same block.

17:35:56 asciilifeform: (gets in a block.)

17:36:13 mircea_popescu: yeah, a miner might choose to do all sorts of patently idiotic shit.

17:36:17 mircea_popescu: this is part of the problem.

17:36:22 asciilifeform: sturles: for 'mights', go to a church.

17:36:25 asciilifeform: trb does not deal in mights.

17:36:26 mircea_popescu: that we allow the miners to do way too much stuff.

17:36:35 asciilifeform: ^

17:37:11 sturles: It is in the design. As long as the order is correct (perent before child in the block), it is accepted.

17:37:20 asciilifeform: sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ?

17:37:51 asciilifeform: allowing chained tx to operate as a unit, in a node, opens you up to one.

17:38:06 asciilifeform: in fact this is happening EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DAY

17:38:14 mircea_popescu: quite.

17:38:27 sturles: Yes. It isn't verey complicated. Really. As long as A is found before B in the blockchain, the order is AB. Even if A and B are in the same block.

17:38:42 mircea_popescu: this nonsense is not long of this world, sturles

17:39:22 sturles: I am not saying it is the right way to do it, just that it is how it is.

17:39:24 mircea_popescu: there's no way to write a sane specification for bitcoin that avoids saying specifically "if input tx is not found in a block, tx is invalid"

17:39:40 mircea_popescu: yeah, some noncompliant miners are currently doing this, among many other insanities they do.

17:39:42 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-february-2016-statement/

17:39:44 asciilifeform: sturles: it is pointedly NOT 'how it is' in trb.

17:39:49 asciilifeform: i killed this idiocy with my own hands.

17:39:51 mircea_popescu: no argument there. but it is not ok merely because some idiots do it atm.

17:39:52 asciilifeform: and it's staying dead.

17:40:29 asciilifeform: the miners are free to collect clumps of tx off the street and find, at their own idiot expense, validly linked chains thereof.

17:40:33 asciilifeform: but they do not HAVE to.

17:40:41 asciilifeform: they are doing this for no particularly good reason.

17:41:08 asciilifeform: could far more easily declare, as trb does, 'tx is only valid if inputs are confirmed in existing block.'

17:42:30 asciilifeform: and it would have been proper for the protocol to forbid the lunacy by proclaiming that a tx cannot rely on inputs IN SAME BLOCK AS IT.

17:42:45 asciilifeform: but this was not done, because satoshi smoked dope.

17:42:46 mircea_popescu: not too late for that, either.

17:43:47 asciilifeform: this is called a complexity vulnerability, and presently i search for these, elsewhere and far away, for a living.

17:46:56 sturles: It isn't that complex. The uxto set is updated as the block is parsed. The inputs of the sibling will be in the utxo set when it gets to it. It only makes some optimizations somewhat harder.

17:47:49 asciilifeform: sturles: you do not know what computational complexity refers to ??!

17:47:56 asciilifeform: 'it isn't the complex' !?!?!!

17:48:03 asciilifeform: that is a thing that one can say about an algo now ?!

17:48:54 asciilifeform: now i am tempted to say to client, when he asks for theta, 'it isn't that complex'

17:50:08 mircea_popescu: eh simmer down eh

17:50:44 sturles: Yes, and I don't think this is much more complex than requiring each utxo to be in a different block than the one it is spent from.

18:00:03 asciilifeform: !up sturles

18:03:35 asciilifeform: see, requiring inputs-in-old-blocks makes verification O(1).

18:03:44 asciilifeform: tight-bound.

18:03:53 asciilifeform: not doing so, gives you a worst-case of O(N^2) !

18:04:14 asciilifeform: (every shot requires you to look at every other)

18:04:49 asciilifeform: this would be an 'academic' matter, were it not for the fact that the enemy is making full use of it.

18:05:00 asciilifeform: for ~6 mo. now.

18:05:15 asciilifeform: !s spamola

18:05:16 assbot: 6 results for 'spamola' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spamola

18:05:24 sturles: No, the order must be strict. I.e. the the parent must be confirmed _before_ the sibling.

18:05:41 sturles: If the sibling is _after_ the parent in the block, the block is invalid.

18:06:14 asciilifeform: sturles: how does your node decide if a tx is to be relayed ?

18:06:27 asciilifeform: (assume signature is valid)

18:06:54 sturles: I use normal rules for relaying transactions.

18:07:10 asciilifeform: what does this mean ?

18:08:20 sturles: I haven't looked closely at the code. My node behaves like any other node would. Except it keeps a part of the mempool protected from fee based eviction based on priority.

18:09:04 asciilifeform: sturles: i recommend to look at the code, you're in for some surprises.

18:23:20 trinque: asciilifeform │ mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet << neato. -pulseaudio is another good one

18:23:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TSWdSu )

18:25:07 trinque: (nobody cancelled dmix!!!111!!!)

18:28:35 asciilifeform: trinque: it doesn't try to slip in

18:28:46 asciilifeform: largely because everything that uses it, gets killed by the flag set shown.

18:29:25 trinque: nice

18:32:33 asciilifeform: ultimately, a sane linux - to the extent such a thing is physically possible - will look like a gentoo with a vtronic portage.

18:33:27 asciilifeform: where, e.g., mircea_popescu can go, 'emerge ben_vulpes' and get a set.

18:34:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> what does this mean ? << that he's using prb and never looked inside for sheer horror

18:35:01 mircea_popescu: it's what it usually means when someone says they're using "normal" anything in bitcoin

18:35:12 asciilifeform: ugh

18:35:30 mircea_popescu: o shit, the very next line!

18:35:36 mircea_popescu: hey, i swear i hadn't read it when i said.

18:42:05 asciilifeform: http://badpenguins.com/gentoo-build-test << for archaeologists.

18:42:06 assbot: Gentoo Stage1/Stage3 Building: Fact -vs- Fiction ... ( http://bit.ly/21H9eDG )

18:58:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00056611 = 4.7836 BTC [-] {2}

19:05:18 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.

19:05:18 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 07:09:35; phf: "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.

19:05:42 pete_dushenski: made me long to see a real ballet. i think i'll wait until the royal winnipeg is in town next.

19:06:28 *: trinque has dated two ballerinas

19:06:35 trinque: the ones that take it seriously are *jacked*

19:07:31 *: pete_dushenski used to dance ! lifts were a pubescent boy's dream cum true.

19:13:44 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << hahaha i had this exact same debate with fillie at guggenheim bilbao over serra's 'the matter of time'. she fucking hated it, i defended it, but probably to play foil as much as anything. this was a few years ago however, though i do still see his works once or twice a year in toronto's pearson airport ('tilted spheres'). i will grant them their ability to bre

19:13:44 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"

19:13:44 pete_dushenski: p a space both visually and auditorially.

19:14:46 pete_dushenski: as ever, he with the gold calls the shots as to 'what is art'

19:30:00 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420965 << in my experience, as detailed in latest contravex, this can be worked around.

19:30:00 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:58:36; asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.

19:31:17 pete_dushenski: granted that it's a bit of a pain, and also granting that it's hardly a scalable solution, it does do the trick.

19:32:03 pete_dushenski: this doesn't improve bitbet's position, nor its aims for transparency, but normally transacting users who previously received 'tainted' coins do have recourse.

19:32:59 asciilifeform: worked around ?!

19:33:13 asciilifeform: for one thing, the ~existing~ bets have addrs published.

19:33:48 pete_dushenski: i'm not discussing bets that haven't been resolved

19:35:39 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it remains trivial to track down and target the addrs ~from~ which bb pays out.

19:36:02 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420833 << not sure how transparency was 'unthinking' but i had largely the same train of thought last night as i was composing 'salvage' piece (ie. hashes, first few characters).

19:36:02 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:31; asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking tran

19:36:28 *: pete_dushenski wasn't he of poor nickname taste, ftr.

19:36:35 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: all of the proposed 'mask' solutions remind me of the 'bear-proof suit'

19:36:39 asciilifeform: !s bear suit

19:36:40 assbot: 3 results for 'bear suit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bear+suit

19:37:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-04-2015#1095271 << thread.

19:37:08 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:15:42; ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit'

19:38:06 asciilifeform: or, as uncle al called it, 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel.'

19:38:34 asciilifeform: some problems are not meant to be solved ~at the receiving end~

19:39:00 asciilifeform: BUT RATHER are to be solved by finding and catching the problemator, and smashing him into a concrete wall repeatedly until the problem goes away.

19:39:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.

19:40:08 asciilifeform: perhaps even now he is looking for a suitable concrete wall.

19:40:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00056675 = 13.3753 BTC [+] {3}

19:41:44 pete_dushenski: http://i.imgur.com/NxwksNr.webm << skull/lycra suit isn't unlike bear suit.

19:41:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsCklJ )

20:10:00 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: when I hear "fits in head" >> http://cdn2.thegloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Knowledge.gif

20:11:04 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners... << Known, but gotta get people reading because lord knows /. story approvers don't

20:13:57 ben_vulpes: this conflict is rooted in the addr reuse thread.

20:15:01 ben_vulpes: while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".

20:20:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: thoughts on the x60 vs x61?

20:28:35 punkman: ben_vulpes: iirc x61 doesn't libreboot

20:45:14 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: theoretically, x60, because coreboot. but turns out that coreboot is halfbaked.

20:45:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056611 = 8.0388 BTC [-] {2}

20:45:57 asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1417976 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1418199

20:45:57 assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 04:23:06; asciilifeform: libreboot just sort of runs it at mid-rpm at all times.

20:45:57 assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 16:55:32; asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.

20:46:35 asciilifeform: i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist

20:46:49 asciilifeform: (lenovo REALLY doesn't want you to use your own nic)

20:52:06 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: x60 is an amazing box (get the 64-bit last rev., 2GHz) but i must warn, it suffers from a barfalicious - by modern standards - lcd.

20:52:06 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

20:52:39 asciilifeform: sata ssd will work, but limited to sata-ii (1.5Gb/s) freq.

21:11:14 gernika: I finally have a fully synced trb node, after starting on the project almost a year ago.

21:13:49 pete_dushenski: gernika: congrats!

21:13:58 gernika: thanks pete_dushenski

21:15:09 pete_dushenski: you persevered where many didn't, which is really the only way to live.

21:21:38 shinohai: gg gernika \o/

21:24:04 gernika: and if anyone is curious what took me so long - catastrophic hard disk failure, among other things.

21:38:56 shinohai: I've had that, theft, and just yesterday a db crash. Yet I soldier on.

21:40:24 trinque: shinohai: home/car/other ?

21:44:48 shinohai: trinque: home, someone busted in my the side door to my home office, got a lappy and a few trivial items.

21:45:40 trinque: ah, sorry to hear that.

21:47:15 shinohai: No big deal besides the lost work, thankfully the airgapped computer with my gpg keys was in my bedroom at the time.

21:47:47 shinohai: I hope they booted into Arch and were like "dafuq did I just steal?"

21:48:22 trinque: heh, that's what I imagine the fucks that stole my 4U doing.

21:48:32 trinque: "This space heater sucks!11!1!"

21:49:33 shinohai: kek

22:02:33 danielpbarron: !up jabular

22:03:13 danielpbarron: oh trinque thanks for adding my blog :D

22:12:00 shinohai: I read that this morning danielpbarron - nice!

22:15:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00056751 = 18.8981 BTC [+] {2}

22:17:39 trinque: danielpbarron: yw

22:32:27 felipelalli: deedbot-, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1effa68e-6a36-4586-ad55-504c15f8bbd7/?raw=true

22:32:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2Fhgc )

22:32:32 deedbot-: rejected: 1

22:33:24 felipelalli: deedbot- does not like me :)

22:35:35 trinque: not sure why that happened.

22:36:19 trinque: felipelalli: I'll look in a bit and fix whatever's stopping that and put it through for you.

22:39:53 felipelalli: trinque, thank you very much. I guess is something related with UTF-8 again because in my browser I had to manually set to UTF-8 encoding when ?raw=true

22:40:02 felipelalli: maybe a problem with http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/

22:40:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GpAu )

22:40:21 felipelalli: wrong header or something

22:41:18 felipelalli: the header is "Content-Type:text/plain" but could be "Content-Type:text/plain?charset=utf-8"

22:41:27 danielpbarron: deedbot- http://danielpbarron.com/felipelalli.asc.txt

22:41:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GBj0 )

22:41:29 deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14

22:41:38 danielpbarron: deedbot- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1effa68e-6a36-4586-ad55-504c15f8bbd7/?raw=true

22:41:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2Fhgc )

22:41:40 deedbot-: rejected: 1

22:42:37 felipelalli: deedbot-, http://pastebin.com/raw/b0aR4b6k

22:42:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p2GJ20 )

22:42:38 deedbot-: accepted: 1

22:42:46 felipelalli: the problem is wotpaste

22:43:30 trinque: ah neato

22:43:38 trinque: ben_vulpes: ^

22:49:36 felipelalli: trinque, thank you!

22:57:39 ben_vulpes: fascinating.

22:57:41 ben_vulpes: noted, ty.

23:06:30 deedbot-: [Qntra] Chinese Businesses Scavenge US Industry For Brands - http://qntra.net/2016/03/chinese-businesses-scavenge-us-industry-for-brands/

23:07:52 pete_dushenski: "General Electric's efforts get out" << missing 'to'

23:09:00 pete_dushenski: "appliance business have become public knowledge twice before." << this parse funny to anyone else ?

23:09:59 pete_dushenski: "Following that last year "Justice" Department regulators refused permission to Swedish firm Electrolux's efforts to unburden General Electric of this line of business by acquiring it for 3.3 billion" << idem.

23:10:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00056611 = 22.1915 BTC [-] {3}

23:11:07 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: in general, more commas plz !

23:11:34 pete_dushenski: punctuation helps break up thoughts and controls reader flow

23:24:43 cazalla: how's the bubs pete_dushenski ?

23:25:46 pete_dushenski: cazalla: just splendid. we're in the sweet spot where he's sleeping well, eating well, can't crawl, and isn't teething :)

23:26:01 cazalla: sounds like heaven!

23:26:12 pete_dushenski: lol sure feels like it !

23:26:36 cazalla: i'm at the stage where i'm now singing and dancing to wiggles songs at 6am

23:26:53 cazalla: walking around with kids songs lyrics in muh head

23:30:13 pete_dushenski: gotta have something in there eh ;)

23:40:07 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: ty, should be fixed

23:47:38 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Also added picture I left out

23:49:42 pete_dushenski: aha

23:50:25 cazalla: BingoBoingo, qntra down? down here

23:50:49 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Seems up, we don't really get ddos'd as much

23:51:54 cazalla: might be my end then

23:59:13 *: pete_dushenski is out