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Transcript for 04-03-2015, 1994 lines:

00:00:46 BingoBoingo: What, those are some tig ole bitties

00:01:08 gabriel_laddel: you kid, correct?

00:03:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00036995 = 22.419 BTC [+] {2}

00:03:56 gabriel_laddel: in other news: http://www.shadbase.com/black-humor/

00:03:58 assbot: Shädbase - Black Humor ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ne3XJV )

00:04:22 BingoBoingo: Sometimes you have to look past everything else and jsut acknowledge some big titties.

00:04:35 gabriel_laddel: myeah. no.

00:18:24 gabriel_laddel: !up jordandotdev

00:34:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.00037281 = 24.5309 BTC [+] {2}

00:49:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81856 @ 0.00037283 = 30.5184 BTC [+]

01:03:49 pete_dushenski: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_INR8ZXIAIIs2q.jpg << lulzy shot of coinbase orderbook, allegedly from earlier today, showing an order for *negative* bitcoin

01:03:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELm1HO )

01:04:22 adlai: pete_dushenski: where's that from?

01:05:04 pete_dushenski: guy on twitter, lemme find the link

01:05:25 asciilifeform: pay'em to take it away

01:05:35 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/KyleHolzhauer/status/572534708594208770

01:05:36 assbot: /coinbase what's going on here... Shenanigans I tell ya http://t.co/Skb7C0FLkp

01:06:34 cazalla: seen a few variations of that pop up

01:07:00 pete_dushenski: remarkable..

01:07:16 adlai: i'm ashamed to admit that i have no clue what idiocy could produce such an error

01:07:19 Pierre_Rochard: tried it myself, got “Invalid size” error. May be an API bug (or photoshopped)

01:07:30 cazalla: was here a week back http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2x24lp/what_do_negative_bids_mean_coinbase_exchange/

01:07:32 assbot: What do negative bids mean? (Coinbase Exchange) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELmolF )

01:07:32 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard hello hello !

01:07:58 cazalla: client side apparently.. not that i'd know

01:08:12 Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: hello! how’s the new ride been treating you?

01:08:46 pete_dushenski: lol it's rock solid in the winter

01:08:57 pete_dushenski: starts up every time

01:09:18 Pierre_Rochard: do you need chains on the wheels or are they civilized enough to sweep?

01:09:19 nubbins`: hi

01:09:32 pete_dushenski: nubbins`heyo

01:09:49 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard they plow, sweep, etc. plus i have blizzak winter tires

01:10:17 pete_dushenski: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19465/breaking-canadian-exchange-quadrigacx-become-worlds-first-publicly-traded-bitcoin-exchange/ << i met the owner of this thing last year, gerald

01:10:18 assbot: Breaking: Canadian Exchange QuadrigaCX to Become World’s First Publicly Traded Bitcoin Exchange – Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELmFF6 )

01:10:36 pete_dushenski: at the time it seemed like a basement operation

01:10:43 pete_dushenski: now, going 'public'

01:11:11 nubbins`: dat feb state of bitcoin address

01:11:37 BingoBoingo: !up Guest37440

01:11:52 Pierre_Rochard: ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. May be wishful thinking

01:12:29 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard so basically a bank you already know and trust with a btc trading platform

01:13:20 Pierre_Rochard: not necessarily the same entity but in practice yes

01:14:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015-info/guardian-redact/guardian-redact.htm << wtf ?

01:14:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELn4ro )

01:14:26 asciilifeform: (who filmed ?)

01:14:59 asciilifeform: or was it idiot after-the-fact mock-up

01:16:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they have nothing. this is proof positive that the cia is as worthless as the vassar feminist book club; think about hassling beria in that manner << to be fair, p. was no longer heading anything when he was 'flushed'.

01:16:52 asciilifeform: hruschev was a whole gensec and what did that get him after retirement.

01:17:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I may have to watch again less drunk, but I believe Poitras was behind the camera most of the time.

01:17:06 BingoBoingo: !up MartinPonce

01:17:12 BingoBoingo: Hello MartinPonce

01:17:15 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform i'm guessing after the fact.

01:17:26 nubbins`: for those of you who collect shiny things:

01:17:27 nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.0

01:17:28 assbot: Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6Zxiw )

01:20:12 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard anything new on your end these days ? any accounting software updates ?

01:20:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: beria actually picked up women... << based on the sources, i don't regard it as a solid historical fact

01:22:28 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-03-2015#1039672

01:22:28 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 08:58:24; mircea_popescu: " They also remember the high-tech crash of 1984, and the screams of pain up and down Wall Street." << heh it nearly killed gaming altogether, and is responsible for killing consoles. (yes they still exist, but gaming is essentially a pc item)

01:22:40 gabriel_laddel: ^ ummm... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/playstation-4-passes-18-5-million-sales-worldwide/

01:22:41 assbot: PlayStation 4 passes 18.5 million sales worldwide | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELo12U )

01:23:40 Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: I’ve split the accounting logic from the webapp so that it’s just a python package. Cleaner and decrufted. Getting close to a stable-enough version to write up documentation

01:23:52 gabriel_laddel: as for the original PSP, 76.3 million sales (as of March 31, 2012)

01:23:56 gabriel_laddel: (worldwide)

01:24:47 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard awesome

01:26:15 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the safest assumptions from the film though is that one of the core group of Snowden journalists had at some poin been turned or always was an unsavory side vegetable. Likely Greenwald, likely before meeting snowden in HK.

01:26:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.00037428 = 29.0816 BTC [+] {2}

01:28:02 BingoBoingo: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_save_you_this_time.php

01:28:04 assbot: Sand Won't Save You This Time. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELotOq )

01:29:06 BingoBoingo: ^ Potentially useful for home 100nm IC fab

01:32:33 nubbins`: pete_dushenski re: quadriga going public, here's the exchange: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Securities_Exchange

01:32:34 assbot: Canadian Securities Exchange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELp1Ec )

01:32:58 BingoBoingo: http://web.archive.org/web/20060318221608/http://www.airproducts.com/nr/rdonlyres/8479ed55-2170-4651-a3d4-223b2957a9f3/0/safetygram39.pdf

01:34:09 pete_dushenski: nubbins` ayup.

01:37:01 decimation: pete_dushenski: segregated fiat? like 100% reserve, physical bills laying in a warehouse?

01:39:17 nubbins`: uh, what?

01:39:25 nubbins`: quadrigacx lets you deposit gold

01:39:57 decimation: nubbins`: can you withdraw gold?

01:40:10 nubbins`: yes

01:40:25 nubbins`: RCM 1oz bars

01:40:32 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Dunchu No, U let everyone deposit everything and just hope some sort of market stability sticks

01:40:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00037631 = 17.3855 BTC [+] {2}

01:41:14 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: notice how the remaining consoles are lightly-modified x86 boxes internally ?

01:41:44 *: nubbins` shrugs

01:41:47 nubbins`: wild

01:41:52 nubbins`: gold->btc easier if this works

01:43:41 pete_dushenski: decimation lol don't ask me, it's Pierre_Rochard's fantasy

01:43:51 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And the previous generation PowerPC. Pure Apple style trechery.

01:44:41 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo which new console is running powerpc guts ?

01:44:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: actually no secret why. no one (and i mean no one) is making a serious serial-execution non-x86 cpu today

01:44:52 asciilifeform: no one.

01:45:07 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Neither, but the Ms360 and PS3 were bother powerPC

01:45:42 decimation: I don't think we yanks can send money to canadian banks

01:45:46 pete_dushenski: heh, who knew that i have a powerpc collecting dust at home!

01:46:01 pete_dushenski: decimation paypal.

01:46:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Amazing the damage a single decade does

01:46:06 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

01:46:50 decimation: pete_dushenski: paypal does canadian EFT?

01:47:14 Pierre_Rochard: decimation: this is about separating the traders’ cash from the exchange’s cash. Comingling of funds is not a good idea, as you point out it can lead to “fractional reserve” by the exchange (more precisely, defalcation)

01:47:21 pete_dushenski: decimation it does indeed.

01:47:24 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Nope.

01:48:07 decimation: Pierre_Rochard: yeah that makes sense

01:48:11 BingoBoingo: Then again the PowerPC console generation came as Apple left the architecture and IBM wanted anyone else to jsutify its continued work there

01:48:30 asciilifeform: plenty of ppc in usg proprietary machinery

01:48:31 decimation: Pierre_Rochard: I kinda assumed that non-scam exchanges would do this, but apparently nobody can resist

01:48:47 asciilifeform: (but not enough for a legit commercial fab to turn a profit unless 'favourite son')

01:49:14 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The value of the game consoles was the illusion of volume

01:49:31 BingoBoingo: Or illusion of viability through volume

01:50:06 BingoBoingo: But M$ in particular hit the same issues that sent Apple away "Red Ring of Death"

01:58:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00037652 = 15.6632 BTC [+]

01:58:35 gabriel_laddel: "illusion of volume" << ?

01:59:34 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Intended meaning one line lower. Vodka time

01:59:46 ben_vulpes: !rate vhost- 2 taught me much

01:59:47 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/c419dfe455e10429

01:59:52 BingoBoingo: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-a-faq.htm#Q-META-CSS-STYLE >> Last word on design ever

01:59:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELsceX )

02:00:16 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.vhost-.2:45f33ea63fd332565cd5944c27d4e2d71efa99db12620aef65556fa23229d0f5

02:00:16 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for vhost- with note: taught me much

02:01:36 BingoBoingo: And the only thing about Javascript that matters is >> http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-a-faq.htm#AEN562

02:01:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELsqTi )

02:06:04 BingoBoingo: !up Guest21461

02:11:55 BingoBoingo: !up ebit_

02:16:27 decimation: BingoBoingo: that CIF3 stuff is nasty

02:17:06 BingoBoingo: decimation: Of course it is, but... semiconductor lithography... In the neighbor's shed!

02:22:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00036354 = 10.3609 BTC [-]

02:27:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58800 @ 0.00037883 = 22.2752 BTC [+] {2}

02:29:01 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

02:29:07 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 281.84, vol: 18796.51371096 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 278.38, vol: 19043.02781 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 283.73, vol: 78418.16176281 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 282.3469, vol: 147610.75430000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 278.35492, vol: 22.49694774 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 287.325999989, vol: 177.90471922 | Volume-weighted last average: 282.438491329

02:36:12 decimation: re: petraeus < I said they would never prosecute, and I'm not sure if I'm right or not

02:36:35 decimation: it will be interesting to see how he is sentenced

02:37:17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: read the ClF3 link again, notice that it is used in si fab solely for cleaning tools.

02:37:45 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but cleaning after the fact is the next best thing to starting from a clean workspace

02:38:27 BingoBoingo: decimation: Basically it seems the objective of the scandal was to keep him out of national politics. Mission accomplished as it rarely is.

02:38:28 asciilifeform: the gas is merely one of 1,000 reasons why the fab costs what it does.

02:39:21 asciilifeform: it is interesting to compare, in this respect, the semiconductor industry to... nuclear one

02:39:58 asciilifeform: entirely workable schemes ('intrinsically safe' reactors made of pellets, etc.) have been proposed for reasonably inexpensive fission plants for home use

02:40:22 asciilifeform: no one was in a great hurry to buy - but there were designs

02:40:29 asciilifeform: si fab on the other hand:

02:40:31 asciilifeform: zilch.

02:40:35 BingoBoingo: Sure, Just cutting out safety seems to open a number of options. Like it does in batteries.

02:41:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00036354 = 11.0153 BTC [-]

02:43:04 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cutting out completely looks rather like this: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp_tankhunters/fig1_japanese_lunge_mine_antitank.jpg

02:43:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELxabN )

02:43:16 decimation: BingoBoingo: that's an interesting angle on petraeus (keeping him out of politics)

02:43:27 decimation: of course nearly everyone in washington is guilty of exactly the same crimes

02:43:31 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for most engineered items, even for suicide soldiers, one finds something less extreme

02:44:10 decimation: yeah, nuclear reactors are actually pretty simple in principle

02:44:26 asciilifeform: decimation: how many usg employees that were once dealing in official secrets would come up entirely clean if their belongings were searched ? as in, not even a 'post-it note'

02:44:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, but I imagine applications of walking biodiesel

02:44:53 decimation: asciilifeform: well, look at that diane roark chick

02:45:09 BingoBoingo: decimation: The thing is he took the post as an active duty officer and the affair itself presented another potentially chargeable crime.

02:45:17 decimation: agents took nearly all of her personal papers and 'decided' which ones were actually classified at their own discretion

02:45:29 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: these only get 'clintonized' if someone wills it to happen

02:45:30 decimation: then they argue that the courts are not able to decide these matters

02:45:45 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: because subject 'needs to have problems'

02:45:50 decimation: BingoBoingo: yes, but under the ucmj

02:46:28 BingoBoingo: decimation: But UMCJ would have applied. Part of the way to defanging nation.

02:46:59 decimation: BingoBoingo: eh?

02:47:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Of course. Petraeus's greatest problem was going as high as a primate could go. Purely sublizard being

02:47:27 decimation: someone at DOJ had an agenda against him

02:47:31 BingoBoingo: decimation: Higher you go the more UCMJ hit if it is applied

02:47:45 decimation: everything usg does has a civil servant with an agenda behind it

02:49:26 decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah, but instead he's going to jail instead of taking a demotion

02:49:34 decimation: I don't get how that is even in the same ballpark

02:50:08 BingoBoingo: decimation: Hasn't been sentenced yet. Anyways UCMJ provides for the occasional death penalty

03:00:09 decimation: at any rate, I suspect the whole petraeus affair is merely designed to pour encourager les autres while simultaneously dinging a potential political rival

03:00:58 *: BingoBoingo remembers in early 2012 before scandal Petraeus being floated as a more serious threat to Obola than Congress

03:02:37 decimation: !up Dr-G

03:02:58 BingoBoingo: !up bitspill

03:03:02 BingoBoingo: !up bitstein

03:03:40 BingoBoingo: Oh, the Harry Potter thing updated with two new chapters and still isn't over yet.

03:04:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46777 @ 0.00036097 = 16.8851 BTC [-] {2}

03:08:03 decimation: “There is light in the world, and it is us!" Eliezer Yudkowsky, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality << "We are the ones we've been waiting for" Obama

03:10:57 *: BingoBoingo still only on chapter 66 and closing chapters, which ought to be expected as I'm from a town with "auf wiedersehen" on the signs at its borders

03:13:04 BingoBoingo: !up roseebit

03:13:14 trinque: decimation: hilarious how close that is to christian rhetoric

03:13:36 trinque: same heaven on earth myth too

03:13:42 trinque: just with gadgets

03:14:09 decimation: trinque: as a Christian I find their statements abhorrent

03:14:46 decimation: because it asserts a form of 'christianity' without Christ

03:15:02 decimation: "man is your god, and I am your prophet"

03:15:05 trinque: right-o, it's a sort of techno-atheist christianity

03:15:38 *: BingoBoingo is dissapoint in this fanfic/propaganda piece. Halfway through and no fucking?

03:16:01 trinque: decimation: seems like bitcoin has attracted a lot of christians, not that I mind. I'm curious why that is, if so

03:16:27 decimation: BingoBoingo: what about your woodchipper fetish harry potter?

03:16:38 trinque: maybe there are more out there than I think

03:17:17 BingoBoingo: decimation: Had the virtue of being short. At least blood has a lubricant quality all its own.

03:17:58 BingoBoingo: decimation: And I did not write the woodchipper fanfic. Merely found it searching for tales of awesome machines.

03:19:01 decimation: trinque: for myself, my interest in bitcoin flows directly from my interest in competent government

03:20:53 trinque: makes sense

03:22:22 decimation: I also think the fiat machine that enables mass theft from everyone's savings is a form of usary

03:23:44 danielpbarron: decimation, what do you think of this?: Revelation 13:16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

03:24:26 gabriel_laddel: ...

03:24:42 trinque: danielpbarron: sounds like antibitcoin

03:24:52 danielpbarron: "no one may buy or sell except one who has ... the number of his name"

03:25:17 danielpbarron: isn't a private key a number?

03:25:18 trinque: danielpbarron: heh I could project the beast's key and my key onto that too

03:25:48 decimation: danielpbarron: revelation is a difficult book. I have no idea what that means

03:26:30 trinque: danielpbarron: I enjoy thinking of the usgov as the whore, though I've heard people argue thats the catholic church

03:26:33 trinque: ...supposedly

03:27:27 decimation: danielpbarron: it is very interesting though

03:27:44 danielpbarron: i'm not saying GPG and the WoT is the number and the beast necessarily, but the similarity is more striking than most ideas i've heard

03:28:20 danielpbarron: seems more likely than the idea that carbon credits and rfid chips are the beast and mark

03:28:26 decimation: hehe

03:29:24 trinque: danielpbarron: evil does that doesn't it? takes something and twists it just a hair

03:29:40 trinque: bitcoin plus some kind of address validation scheme plus govt-captured mining

03:29:43 trinque: sure, it'd be just like that

03:29:52 danielpbarron: no twist needed

03:31:44 danielpbarron: Romans 13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have

03:32:15 danielpbarron: but this could also refer to the serene republic

03:32:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00037984 = 4.8999 BTC [+] {2}

03:33:13 decimation: danielpbarron: that was what I was going to bring up next. this text (romans 13) is difficult to put into practice in a universal suffrage democracy

03:33:51 decimation: who exactly is to be the object of your submission? the law as written? or as interpreted by bureaucrats? or as voted by your neighbor?

03:33:53 danielpbarron: the USG is surely wicked in that it enforces laws that are counter to The Bible

03:34:27 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Could even the good doktor mark such a large keyspace as RSA as his numebers?

03:34:27 danielpbarron: but if we are to take God at His word, even this wicked government is for good

03:34:42 decimation: danielpbarron: aye

03:35:03 BingoBoingo: Anyways, revelations is awfully late to be considered God's word.

03:35:24 decimation: but that 'goodness' might be delivered through great destruction

03:35:28 trinque: sounds a lot more like that guy John went on one hell of a psychedelic trip

03:35:41 BingoBoingo: End of the world stuff would probably be better in Ezekiel with the horse dicks

03:35:58 danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, interestingly enough consider if someone came along who could factor any number of arbitrary length -- would that not appear to be a miracle?

03:36:22 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I'd need to know if they have a time machine or not.

03:36:26 danielpbarron: such a person could sign a message as any user

03:36:41 BingoBoingo: Depends on how good their time machine is

03:38:25 trinque: danielpbarron: the passivity in romans 13 is the kind of thing I rejected on the way out of the church

03:39:00 trinque: I could see myself in the past saying "well, if this 'authority' is not godly, they're no real authority"

03:39:52 danielpbarron: i think it's along the lines of how this world is temporary anyway -- it's like the tower of babel to try to make heaven on earth

03:41:15 danielpbarron: i mean, USG or b-a in charge either way this all gets destroyed ultimately ; but i think i'd rather have b-a in charge if there is a choice

03:43:23 trinque: danielpbarron: ultimately no one's in charge of much

03:43:53 mircea_popescu: !up roseebit

03:43:57 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: But there is always the constraint that particular lives are bound by finitude. Tis the extraordinarily rare prophet of doom who gets to see the doom while living. Jeremiah didn't

03:43:59 mircea_popescu: roseebit are you in the wot ?

03:44:25 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think whoever they are is in the DoS loop

03:45:05 mircea_popescu: howdja mean ?

03:45:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: They keep getting voiced, bumped to guest*** and rejoining

03:45:53 mircea_popescu: oh that yeah

03:46:02 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040396 << are we confusing prime factorization and discrete logarithms?

03:46:02 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:36:26; danielpbarron: such a person could sign a message as any user

03:46:34 danielpbarron: isn't a private key a composite number with two very large prime numbers?

03:46:42 trinque: +BingoBoingo | danielpbarron: But there is always the constraint that particular lives are bound by finitude. << my world ends whether "the" world ends or not

03:46:47 danielpbarron: or rather, relating to such a number

03:47:19 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Depends on your algorithm.

03:47:22 adlai: not really, there's just a single prime in bitcoin crypto, and there's no need to factor anything

03:47:34 mircea_popescu: looking in the logs, apparently alf created a new word nao, "portatronic"

03:47:43 mircea_popescu: sounds like a great vc toiletry service.

03:48:03 danielpbarron: i guess i meant GPG specifically

03:48:13 adlai: ok, so the confusion was on my end :)

03:48:23 adlai: although not all gpg keys are rsa

03:50:23 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron in the rsa scheme

03:50:52 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Even with GPG not everything is RSA. Some people are stupid and use version 2-ish though it lacks backwards compatibility or they use 80's fail crypto which breaks easily.

03:51:09 BingoBoingo: 70's and 90's RSA is the strong stuff

03:52:11 mircea_popescu: lol criptoenology

03:53:43 BingoBoingo: IN the very worst case and RSA fails at least private languages aren't too bad compared to DES, provided the grammar and semantics are unique

03:54:25 danielpbarron: even though it's still not proven, i'll go out on a limb saying that the ability to factor a number of arbitrary length would have to come from a supernatural source, and such a being could probably break all the alternative methods

03:56:11 nubbins`: such a strange place, this

03:56:33 BingoBoingo: If anyone has a time machine to lend I have all kinds of trans cholonolgical arbitrage opportunities that can enrish you provided you give me exactly one whole minute longer than it takes to start the machine alone with it.

03:57:02 trinque: hahaha

03:57:20 nubbins`: ^ me from the future

03:57:55 adlai: well anyone can factor a number of arbitrary length in arbitrary time... consistently being able to factor arbitrary length numbers in constant time, now that is a 'supernatural' algorithm, relative to current knowledge

04:00:02 trinque: paradox police got him

04:00:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5814 @ 0.00037993 = 2.2089 BTC [+]

04:00:42 mircea_popescu: this "private language" thing is a lot easier said than done.

04:00:50 mircea_popescu: and i have some practical experience wiht the issue.

04:01:51 mircea_popescu: anyonw wanna send 50 bux via paypal for me ?

04:02:30 *: adlai is no longer a pay pal >:(

04:02:52 danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, i can do that

04:03:06 mircea_popescu: i remember a time, maybe 10 or so years ago, when having a paypal was like, a point of pride.

04:05:10 adlai: >:( expresses annoyance, not shame (or lack of pride)

04:06:06 adlai: ;;ticker --market all

04:06:12 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.71, vol: 18996.35978116 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 274.711, vol: 18812.28951 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 279.58, vol: 84375.6220414 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 278.13706, vol: 152561.77060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 276.31875, vol: 22.90894774 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 280.367, vol: 178.00907986 | Volume-weighted last average: 278.248147885

04:06:33 adlai: chicken coming down to roost

04:06:45 mircea_popescu: where is that valkirie

04:06:53 danielpbarron: lol paypal nags me every time i log in now about how i haven't given them enough KYC but they let me send money regardless

04:07:02 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AlEvy0fJto

04:07:03 assbot: Richard Wagner - The ride of the Valkyries from "Die Walküre" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJS1rJ )

04:07:30 *: adlai needs to try this as coding music

04:08:00 mircea_popescu: totally.

04:09:04 adlai: got good mileage out of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhT0g9jULpw but can't get too locked to one genre

04:09:06 assbot: Metallica - Ride The Lightning - Full Album (HD 720p) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJSQ3B )

04:09:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of a "deprecated symbol" boggles my mind.,

04:09:24 mircea_popescu: can you explain wtf it's supposed to be even ?

04:10:07 decimation: adlai: recently i've become a fan of arvo pärt (yes, via moldbug)

04:10:51 adlai: also tatran

04:11:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2015#1040051 << this is exactly correct. obscure fucking sides of an obscure place in an fucking thing (linux)

04:11:00 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 22:23:41; ascii_field: every time i do this, i get the distinct feeling that i'm the only living thing other than the package maintainer/developer who tried to build it

04:11:05 mircea_popescu: obscuritas in tenebrae.

04:11:16 adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNudxZEIfqU

04:11:17 assbot: TATRAN - WW III (Album Version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUGKFo )

04:12:41 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> this "private language" thing is a lot easier said than done. << Is any truly dark art otherwise? When you surrender the truth of mathematics to language?

04:13:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wtf it's supposed to be << it's precisely what it looks like to the unarmed eye: a perfectly good symbol that a shitgnome whose arsehole pines for the stake decided to zap to boost his feeling of relevance and be '1337 contributor'

04:14:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: obscure fucking sides of an obscure place << widely used gizmo. but apparently everybody but me just takes the binary

04:14:29 decimation: asciilifeform: how can you 'do' package management without keeping track of the symbols

04:14:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform overheard right now "o yeah ? well the gentoo manual was down for likle... 3 days. i don't think this is a good sign"

04:15:12 adlai: fwiw, 'private language' has served organisms rather well for countless generations, we've only been toying with information hiding for an instant in comparison

04:15:15 asciilifeform: decimation: subject of thread was yet another case of gizmo that won't build on account of 'obsolete' things having been removed from something

04:15:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your idea of widely differs from nature.

04:16:05 mircea_popescu: what's widely, 50 actual usecases which all depend on the same three contractors ?

04:16:13 decimation: asciilifeform: yes but didn't you once say that package management can only be properly done at the language level?

04:16:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neh those use proprietary adas

04:16:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'widely' is mostly uni students

04:16:31 asciilifeform: decimation: aha

04:16:40 asciilifeform: decimation: but i didn't create the universe in question, nobody asked me

04:16:47 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-02-2015#1012685

04:16:47 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2015 18:50:39; asciilifeform: trying to explain that it is quit impossible to have a package management system above the language level that is not dumbed down by support for braindamaged languages.

04:16:53 asciilifeform: aha

04:17:14 asciilifeform: decimation: but in this case the package manager is not at fault. someone deliberately sabotaged a library.

04:17:21 adlai: asciilifeform: any particular reason for your love of ada, specifically?

04:17:24 asciilifeform: (yes, let's call things by their true names - sabotage)

04:17:31 asciilifeform: adlai: i'd love to learn of a substitute for ada

04:17:43 decimation: asciilifeform: well, this is a general problem in C programming - the failure to provide a global namespace

04:18:27 decimation: "no, I want the writef() that does the stuff, not the writef() that displays singing monkeys"

04:18:28 asciilifeform: that is, a hard-standardized (iso preferred) prog. lang. with safe types and deterministic memory usage, that has extant compiler back-ends for all major cpu architectures

04:18:38 asciilifeform: and is happy with, e.g., 64k of total machine ram

04:18:57 asciilifeform: ^ ocaml, say, is right out

04:19:02 asciilifeform: ditto erlang

04:19:31 asciilifeform: ada's the only game in town for this not-uncommon set of constraints

04:19:37 decimation: asciilifeform: also it's probably never going to attract hipsters

04:19:42 asciilifeform: in much the same way that mpex is the only game in town in its field

04:20:05 asciilifeform: i don't give a flying fuck either way about the hipsters

04:20:08 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> decimation: but in this case the package manager is not at fault. someone deliberately sabotaged a library. << So on OpenBSD I'm nt finding an Ada port or package that works with sufficient frequency to make it too the tree. Looking like the turdswitch may have been flipped in GCC

04:20:29 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's a set of ports for 'dragonfly bsd'

04:20:34 asciilifeform: which ought to work on others

04:21:54 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dragonfly ports are mostly loose FreeBSD ports with little guarentee of working. There are older Ada and the visual Ada IDE ports for OpenBSD, but... it seems fuckers would on the whole rather test "go"

04:22:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if gcc works, so will ada, enable it when configuring gcc

04:22:36 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you insist on the ada foundation's bleeding edge thing - that's another matter that i can't help with

04:22:39 mircea_popescu: !up roseebit

04:23:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, "uni studends" right. "use" mhm kay.

04:23:04 *: BingoBoingo is working on the pressing problem of testing other possible bitcoind/qts atm

04:23:37 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So far been searchin for 95 compatible gnat and IDE safety net

04:23:59 asciilifeform: http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-201502-15.xml << speaking of gentoo...

04:24:00 assbot: Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Samba: Multiple vulnerabilities ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJYP8E )

04:24:17 *: adlai stumbles upon https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/impl/alsp/0.html

04:24:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJYVgv )

04:24:18 asciilifeform: ^ you don't have to use winblows to be pwned using winblows pwnhole

04:24:31 adlai: Version: 1.0 (17-MAR-86)

04:24:37 asciilifeform: ^ don't keep windblows box in the house. then no need for 'samba' and the associated idiocies

04:24:46 adlai: iirc that's before 0.5.3

04:25:05 mircea_popescu: what is samba again ?

04:25:10 adlai: windows filesharing

04:25:18 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Windows NFS substitute

04:25:19 decimation: mircea_popescu: it's an implementation of cifs, which is the standard windows network filesystem

04:25:24 mircea_popescu: "Samba is a suite of SMB and CIFS client/server programs." szus nothing to me

04:25:28 mircea_popescu: oh oh

04:25:31 asciilifeform: adlai: interestingly, symbolics lisp mach. had full datastructure interoperability between zetalisp, common lisp, fortran, ada, - even c.

04:26:27 adlai: "had"? i thought there was at least one working lispm in the republic!

04:26:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2015#1040172 << but srsly, you watching its uptime ?

04:26:30 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 23:59:18; PeterL: sorry, cazalla

04:26:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17346 @ 0.00038114 = 6.6113 BTC [+] {2}

04:26:47 asciilifeform: adlai: haven't switched it on in a good long while.

04:27:02 decimation: asciilifeform: re: software that kills < http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319903 < the toyota thing was discussed here in the past

04:27:04 assbot: Toyota Case: Single Bit Flip That Killed | EE Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GibvJH )

04:27:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26954 @ 0.00038246 = 10.3088 BTC [+]

04:27:38 *: BingoBoingo confesses running to OpenBSD instead of Gentoo not because of knowledge, but from a lack of knowledge. Still determine personal minimal set of installed software. No confident enough to make best choices on a whole workstation (as opposed to appliance) stack.

04:27:40 asciilifeform: speaking of the ada foundation, i randomly tested their mac port ( http://mirrors.cdn.adacore.com/art/ee55f5eb79cb118552c03fc83fa2d5c1580f5353 ) and it only segfaults.

04:27:48 asciilifeform: as in, every single one of the executables.

04:27:54 asciilifeform: does -anybody- test this crap ?

04:28:19 mircea_popescu: dude that shadbase.com thing...

04:28:23 decimation: asciilifeform: I spent a few days trying to get ada working on osx 10.9, gave up

04:28:24 mircea_popescu: wtf is it, someone's lcd trip ?

04:28:37 asciilifeform: decimation: use gcc's.

04:28:43 decimation: macports has a 'port' of gcc-gnat , but it requires an existing ada compiler to build

04:28:47 adlai: lcd trip = lsd + advertisements?

04:28:52 asciilifeform: decimation: comes with one, typically

04:29:03 decimation: it swore that it didn't

04:29:10 decimation: I don't understand why

04:29:19 asciilifeform: i suppose that was only on real computer

04:29:43 mircea_popescu: adlai lol

04:30:00 gabriel_laddel: lcd trip?

04:30:10 mircea_popescu: it's a joke!

04:30:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040184 << obviously, their ada wasn't tested.

04:30:21 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:03:49; pete_dushenski: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_INR8ZXIAIIs2q.jpg << lulzy shot of coinbase orderbook, allegedly from earlier today, showing an order for *negative* bitcoin

04:30:30 decimation: asciilifeform: macports suggested four alternatives, none of which were available or worked

04:30:30 gabriel_laddel: haha...

04:30:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00037921 = 5.0435 BTC [-]

04:30:46 adlai: asciilifeform: what's the lispm good for these days? i'm intrigued by them but (as you yourself have said) software sim is much more practical these days

04:30:58 BingoBoingo: One of these days, would love to use as main online computter http://webspace.webring.com/people/a7/717171/Blacky.html

04:30:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK1krB )

04:31:05 asciilifeform: adlai: for satisfying curiosity about what it actually felt like in the period

04:31:14 asciilifeform: adlai: for just about everything else, the emulator

04:31:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040208 << it's only like the... 5th or so to falsely claim firstness on that score.

04:31:23 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:10:36; pete_dushenski: at the time it seemed like a basement operation

04:31:41 asciilifeform: adlai: though if you want a '100% authentic' experience with the emulator, you'll need a symbolics keyboard and an adapter

04:31:44 mircea_popescu: but hey, bitcoin ragazine material.

04:32:08 asciilifeform: (not available commercially. i reversed the keyboard, then some german fella made adapter)

04:32:15 asciilifeform: not even sure if he used my schematic or not

04:32:19 asciilifeform: don't much care today

04:32:31 adlai: you used a regular keyboard with the lispm?

04:32:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040212 << iirc this exists, since about 2011. davout's thing.

04:32:32 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:11:52; Pierre_Rochard: ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. May be wishful thinking

04:32:38 asciilifeform: adlai: no. reverse

04:32:40 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There were people inquiring about qntra submisisons on the firstness of that, but when pressed to source... saw necessary hedges unnews'd it

04:32:42 adlai: or the symbolics keyboard with the emulator?

04:32:43 asciilifeform: lispm keyboard with pc

04:32:46 adlai: ok

04:33:29 BingoBoingo: adlai: Why can't scalpl beat http://fraudsters.com/2013/internet-story/

04:33:30 assbot: Internet story pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2bIF )

04:34:07 asciilifeform: adlai: http://www.asciilifeform.com/images/3.png

04:34:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2nYt )

04:34:25 adlai: BingoBoingo: "why did the dinosaur cross the road? because the chicken hadn't yet evolved"

04:34:28 asciilifeform: adlai: of what? of http://www.asciilifeform.com/bolix/bolix.png

04:34:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2uDh )

04:34:59 asciilifeform: there was another, later white kbd, which i have, with entirely different internals - but protocol-compatible with the old scanned-matrix one pictured here

04:35:17 BingoBoingo: adlai: If I had knowledge to author regex, I'd have a refutation...

04:35:35 adlai: no, you'd have two problems

04:35:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00037649 = 11.8594 BTC [-]

04:35:59 adlai: regex authorship is a treacherous knowledge

04:36:31 asciilifeform: lispm gives an interesting feeling straight away - of computer that cost what a business airplane cost, and intended to maximize the thinking power of an economically-important thinking person

04:37:04 asciilifeform: for instance, the console was really a powerful computer in its own right (contained video rendered and sound card) and could be separated from the (very loud!) machine by, iirc, 200 metres!

04:37:17 asciilifeform: a multiaxial shielded cable was included for this purpose

04:37:25 asciilifeform: we -still!!!!- don't have this with x86 pc!

04:37:28 BingoBoingo: adlai: A number of technologies produce by a factor of ten more probems than they solve, why would regex be so bad. Not like it is python...

04:37:36 asciilifeform: i listen to fucking fans all day long

04:37:39 asciilifeform: because we don't have this.

04:37:41 mircea_popescu: haha fawks was evil.

04:38:07 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> haha fawks was evil. << The phoenix, no. Chaotic neutral

04:38:19 mircea_popescu: i mean evil as in, wicked.

04:38:42 gabriel_laddel: interestingly, the common lisp standard doesn't contain regular expressions. Why? Because they're unnecessary when you don't ever have to parse input.

04:38:47 asciilifeform: ^

04:38:49 asciilifeform: see also naggum

04:39:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040220 << beria is the better comparison point.

04:39:07 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:16:52; asciilifeform: hruschev was a whole gensec and what did that get him after retirement.

04:39:22 BingoBoingo: Amazingly sbcl, no problem on OpenBSD. Any Ada at all, huge fucking pain.

04:39:22 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

04:39:37 adlai: does it thread?

04:39:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried the one built into gcc yet?

04:39:59 asciilifeform: adlai: sbcl, iirc, threads everywhere at this point

04:40:10 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you stil lthink 18mn units sold means something ?

04:40:19 asciilifeform: if asking about ada, the standard requires platform-independent 100% usable threading

04:40:42 asciilifeform: in fact, it requires program to behave in exactly the same way on any platform, if using only what is contained in the standard

04:40:42 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: with respect to the claim that console gaming is 'dead' - yes.

04:40:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Haven't got response to it yet, lack time for my Micheal J Fox hands. adlai Even bitcoin-qt threads beautifully here

04:41:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040238 << it's never the case that you can find one of these "things that be" (as per http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2015#1038150 ) that doesn't have a mole ready to go wherever.

04:41:23 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:26:15; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the safest assumptions from the film though is that one of the core group of Snowden journalists had at some poin been turned or always was an unsavory side vegetable. Likely Greenwald, likely before meeting snowden in HK.

04:41:23 assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 20:35:08; mircea_popescu: but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics"

04:41:32 mircea_popescu: it's kind-of like looking for a soviet army unit without a political comissar.

04:41:34 adlai: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html < pogobsd seems unsupported

04:41:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK4XxI )

04:41:43 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "dead" in the sense of, "not what gaming is"

04:41:51 mircea_popescu: they had a chance at making games = consoles, prior to 94

04:41:56 asciilifeform: adlai: who the fuck needs regex when you have set-macro-character ( http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_ma.htm ) and brain

04:41:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5aAM )

04:41:57 gabriel_laddel: adlai: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=comp.lang.lisp/XpvUwF2xKbk/Xz4Mww0ZwLIJ

04:41:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5aRr )

04:42:04 mircea_popescu: apple came a lot closer to making phones = iphone

04:42:12 mircea_popescu: ultimately also failed. it's a hard fcking thing.

04:42:20 mircea_popescu: but ibm did succeed, making computers = their micros.

04:43:05 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I watched citizenfour at my drunk and most socially aware BAC. They talked about the shortlived Snowden2.0 in Russia. His opsec failure was making any contact with Greenhole.

04:43:15 adlai: asciilifeform: who the fuck needs lispworks when you have http://l1sp.org/search?q=s-m-c

04:43:16 assbot: s-m-c - l1sp.org search ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5GyT )

04:43:41 asciilifeform: adlai: it seems to link right back to lispworkd

04:43:44 asciilifeform: s

04:44:02 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: kk.

04:44:08 adlai: well yes, but shorter and clearer what you're sinking to, cf http://l1sp.org/cl/3.1.2.1.2.3

04:44:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GidMEQ )

04:44:18 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so yeah, not dead dead. "dead".

04:44:57 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, "xerox" is still how you say copier machine / to copy paper by machine in most of the world.

04:44:59 adlai: gabriel_laddel: c.l.l...

04:45:09 gabriel_laddel: adlai: ?

04:45:21 gabriel_laddel: adlai: I was linking you to it b/c you asked why one might want a lispm

04:45:32 gabriel_laddel: adlai: apparently the text editor rocks

04:45:40 gabriel_laddel: Which is unsurprising.

04:46:02 asciilifeform: adlai: 3.1.2.1.2.3 is clearer than f_set_ma ?!?! on what planet, wtf

04:46:05 *: BingoBoingo amazed building python2.7.8 from ports much less pain than building sbcl whatever the available was.

04:46:20 mircea_popescu: it occurs to me you're all very drunk.

04:46:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But on what? (easier to answer for what I am drunk on than the others)

04:46:50 adlai: for values of EtOH approaching Δ9-THC

04:47:13 BingoBoingo: You Jews and your herbs

04:47:23 BingoBoingo: Moses set a bad example

04:47:33 adlai: gabriel_laddel: i'm reading, thank you. asciilifeform dunno, i recognize many sections by number

04:47:38 decimation: asciilifeform: regex does seem to be a kind of 'hair shirt' that is proudly worn by modern programmers

04:47:51 asciilifeform: adlai: lol, i do also, but the other folks here ?!

04:47:54 asciilifeform: doubt it

04:50:30 adlai: ;;isup l1sp.org/mop

04:50:32 gribble: l1sp.org/mop is up

04:50:37 adlai: lies

04:50:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040271 << tbh, i suspect there are fundamental problems that prevent functional implementations of this segregation in functional currencies. you're essentially stuck choosing : either fiat currency and imaginary "segregation" (of definitionally worthless "money") or else strong currency and no segregation.

04:50:41 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:47:14; Pierre_Rochard: decimation: this is about separating the traders’ cash from the exchange’s cash. Comingling of funds is not a good idea, as you point out it can lead to “fractional reserve” by the exchange (more precisely, defalcation)

04:50:55 mircea_popescu: the correct solution probably is to simply put someone in charge, and have them answer with their head.

04:50:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00038039 = 24.1928 BTC [+] {2}

04:51:02 adlai: you people seen tlsnotary yet?

04:51:07 mircea_popescu: which will make large banking concerns impossible, but perhaps to no detriment.

04:51:11 decimation: BingoBoingo: one thing snowden is his brazen equivocation between domestic and foreign espionage

04:51:33 mircea_popescu: decimation missing a verb ?

04:51:56 decimation: ah sorry, ^ one thing that bothers me about snowden

04:52:03 gabriel_laddel: adlai: No, but looking at the website.... why do you mention it?

04:52:07 mircea_popescu: can you explain the difference ?

04:52:55 adlai: tlsnotary lets you turn any bank with functional online services into the fiat side of a wot-based exchange

04:53:07 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, today at $censored_firm we were suddenly excited to learn that a very, very costly $censored_guild_professional will accept a document via 'pgp'... only to learn that he was speaking of a 100%-proprietary turdware

04:53:30 adlai: tlsnotary [purports to let you]*, (but they seem to know what they're doing, as far as i can tell)

04:53:38 asciilifeform: that won't touch normal pgp keys, and requires centrally-blessed 'certs'

04:53:50 BingoBoingo: decimation: Snowden is still you enough for an Anerican to be angry about his circumstances of origin. Provided the documentary interviews actually involved him he seemed personally slighted that his HK room hotel phone listened.

04:54:30 adlai: gabriel_laddel: i was just trying to show off more l1sp.org features

04:55:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aha they took reop as is... Even with the part where it only exists as a "go" turd

04:55:04 decimation: BingoBoingo: snowden seems to be 5% 'whistleblower' and 95% 'media sensation'

04:55:20 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope. ssl-based crap

04:55:22 adlai: asciilifeform: the convenience of pgp with all the trustlessness of ssl!

04:55:31 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: by $american_megacorp

04:55:48 asciilifeform: very similar to what's used in usg dod

04:56:07 mircea_popescu: adlai lmao exactly.

04:56:11 asciilifeform: anyway, you lot missed the only remarkable fact about this tale

04:56:14 BingoBoingo: decimation: Media sensation part seem sto mostly have been an asbestos jacket. He seems, if film was honest to know it was a life shortening ploy, but less so than what manning did.

04:56:18 asciilifeform: that the fella actually thought he was 'using pgp'

04:56:25 asciilifeform: i.e., that this is what pgp is

04:56:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you think the idiocy of a bureaucrat is remarkable to any degree ?

04:56:38 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: S.Mime

04:56:45 adlai: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2014-September/022803.html < tlsnotary overview by the author, conveys details better than a tl;dr

04:56:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKbcRZ )

04:56:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not a bureaucrat

04:56:47 mircea_popescu: he thinks his life is a life, and his woman a woman, and so on and so forth

04:56:50 mircea_popescu: orly ?

04:58:17 *: adlai guesses that $censored_guild has set the bar rather low...

04:58:20 decimation: ultimately, snowden's downfall is that he's a libertard, and that by 'creating a conversation' or 'raising awareness' he can accomplishing anything is a fallacy

04:58:40 asciilifeform: adlai: apparently.

04:58:46 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe have one of the more socially perceptive girls screen the citizenfour thing to see if it is worthy of your eyes. Nothing about it suggest weakening opsec in the slightest. Just do they get the same Greenwald was the snitch vibe that I did.

04:58:53 mircea_popescu: decimation a lot has been accomplished however.

04:59:22 *: adlai mourns the pun's sad lonely death

04:59:47 decimation: mircea_popescu: satans invisible world revealed?

04:59:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: WOuld explain alot about Omi*'s reported media empire failure method

05:00:09 decimation: BingoBoingo: it's pretty obvious that snowden got 'help' from somebody

05:00:09 mircea_popescu: decimation nope. understand : when usg wants to impress me it's stuck prosecuting derps like shrem.

05:00:21 mircea_popescu: when i want to impress it i need but point to that.

05:00:26 mircea_popescu: score is about 1000:1 so far.

05:00:31 mircea_popescu: just for this reason.

05:00:42 mircea_popescu: puts every single usg drone in a very uncomfortable position.

05:00:45 asciilifeform: greenwald is the same animal as every other creature who 1) had a copy of The Goods + 2) sat and continues to sit on it

05:00:56 asciilifeform: + 3) throws out censored gibblets

05:00:57 BingoBoingo: decimation: May also be infered from film that he prolly fucked the Poitras chick to here positive reception

05:01:11 adlai: the state of "digital signatures" in the fiat world is quite sad... if anybody wants a sad laugh, https://boards.greenhouse.io/hellosign/jobs/5726

05:01:12 assbot: Job Application for API Evangelist at HelloSign ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKd0dZ )

05:01:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform meta-people, basically. unable to act because stuck pondering implications as a passtime.

05:01:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: much too charitable a reading

05:01:38 asciilifeform: i see them as fellating usg actively, plain and simple

05:01:44 mircea_popescu: adlai all this "evangelist" bs. they should just hire linda for an evening's outcall and stfu already.

05:01:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the two aren't distinct.

05:01:54 decimation: asciilifeform: they would see themselves as reformers

05:02:10 mircea_popescu: the usg essentially consists of this : "instead of doing anything, why not sit on your ass and ruminate the future ?"

05:02:16 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc greenwald doesn't go chicks

05:02:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: schwartz summed it up as 'More Studies Needed! (tm)'

05:02:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No greenwald loves the cock. Talking likely Snowden Poitras affair

05:02:47 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i muchly doubt anyone ever fucked the poitras chick.

05:03:04 asciilifeform: why not ?

05:03:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But you haven't even heard the loving narration.

05:03:17 mircea_popescu: she has that vibe. the female equivalent of the male creep.

05:03:39 asciilifeform: to borrow dan mocsny's device, 'like the ruins of a great city, you can tell the woman was once beautiful - but you wouldn't want to move into parthenon'

05:03:47 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thar she does, but snowden was compelled to "prison rules"

05:03:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more studies needed, this is the controversy, progress and change, all sortsa gunk.

05:04:00 decimation: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-assange-wikileaks-and-russia-2013-8?op=1

05:04:02 assbot: Snowden, Assange, WikiLeaks, and Russia - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1GigUAw )

05:04:34 gabriel_laddel: Germane to the discussion of "humanity sucks", http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/crap.htm

05:04:35 assbot: STURGEON WAS AN OPTIMIST ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gih0bx )

05:04:45 BingoBoingo: Snowden2 though contacted the wrong one of the set of journalists first and was quieted.

05:05:09 asciilifeform: !b 1

05:05:09 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/11GVEF9.txt )

05:05:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040339 << this much is true.

05:05:43 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:00:58; *: BingoBoingo remembers in early 2012 before scandal Petraeus being floated as a more serious threat to Obola than Congress

05:05:43 BingoBoingo: Film was ambiguous, but leaned towards greenwald having been contacted first.

05:05:44 decimation: BingoBoingo: you mean wikileaks?

05:05:49 adlai: or one from the wrong set from the set of sets of journalists

05:06:42 *: adlai recalls some mention of poitras being contacted first, but read this in an interview with her and only her

05:06:48 BingoBoingo: decimation: I mean Petraeus was on track to be the next two term president following Obola based on his opposition to Obola which would have followed both without consequence

05:07:03 decimation: snowden might have contacted wikileaks acting as a foil for the russian security services

05:07:40 *: adlai wonders how much longer the business model of leak-digestion will survive, before leakers just... leak

05:07:52 decimation: at any rate, I don't think poitras or greenwald have enough of a clue to move a person of interest across borders

05:07:56 BingoBoingo: adlai: Snowden successfully contacted Poitras first. More than a year after attempting Greenwald the frist time. Not sure, but second snowden seemed to contact Greenwald while snowden1 in Moscow. Disappeared.

05:07:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040355 << you shall know a lizzard always and everywhere by this sign, that being a reptile has no grasp or appreciation for mammal reproduction.

05:07:57 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:15:38; *: BingoBoingo is dissapoint in this fanfic/propaganda piece. Halfway through and no fucking?

05:08:02 mircea_popescu: they lay fucking eggs.

05:08:40 asciilifeform: !b 3

05:08:40 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B53W5M.txt )

05:08:51 adlai: but this is not even his final form! beware platypus-hitler

05:09:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040363 << wait so you're against interest ?!

05:09:22 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:22:22; decimation: I also think the fiat machine that enables mass theft from everyone's savings is a form of usary

05:09:36 adlai: BingoBoingo: i've lost track of the snowden's of yesteryear

05:09:37 mircea_popescu: the us fed is just about ready to implement the ancient christian venice.

05:09:52 decimation: mircea_popescu: the meating of usary has changed over the ages

05:10:02 mircea_popescu: so what do you mean ?

05:10:07 mircea_popescu: (and it's usury)

05:10:08 BingoBoingo: adlai: You are kinda in the USian ideology testlab. sounds dangerous

05:10:10 adlai: usary!

05:10:17 decimation: 'theft of money lent'

05:10:23 mircea_popescu: as in, defalcation ?

05:10:32 decimation: heh I suppose so

05:10:42 decimation: perhaps 'theft' is more appropriate

05:10:45 adlai: BingoBoingo: ...?

05:11:33 *: adlai isn't sure whether BingoBoingo is talking about geopolitics, ideology, or some mix of them; and to what degree trolling/mockery is distinguishable from his own actual opinions/beliefs

05:11:35 BingoBoingo: adlai: Modern Israel is nothing more or less than the average middle west resident imagines gryffindor to be

05:11:47 mircea_popescu: the common law has some categories. there's robbery, with violence. there's theft, without violence but with the knowledge of the victim. there's fraud, without the initial knowledge of the victim. there's embezzelment, where the victim isn't a person per se. and there's defalcation, which is merely negligent or reckless, rather than intentional.

05:12:12 BingoBoingo: adlai: Maybe the point is you can't know.

05:12:34 decimation: it's hard to say, because who can divine the intent of usg?

05:12:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040368 << everything's a number, in the sense of , ennumerable.

05:12:50 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:25:17; danielpbarron: isn't a private key a number?

05:12:53 adlai: slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?"

05:12:57 *: BingoBoingo working on that since I can't code for shit

05:13:39 BingoBoingo: <adlai> slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?" << At our local malls those were all hookers at the carts

05:13:42 adlai: mircea_popescu: it gets better when you realize that even everypair's a number

05:14:06 mircea_popescu: adlai who ?

05:14:31 adlai: eg, "compressed ECDSA key" is pretty much the same general idea as the proof that there are 'as many' rational numbers as integers

05:15:17 mircea_popescu: there's a lot of space in that pretty much.

05:15:25 adlai: uncompressed ECDSA key = (x,y) on the curve; compressed = a single number that can have the coordinates extracted from it, because the lines described by the range of compressed keys each intersect the [top half of the] curve at one point

05:16:33 BingoBoingo: Are we sure the fanfic propaganda guy isn't a teen girl "As it turned out, nobody had worked out that her challenging Neville to a Most Ancient Duel meant that she liked him. She'd thought it would be obvious but no, nobody else had even thought of that apparently."

05:17:00 mircea_popescu: lmai

05:17:02 asciilifeform: concat (int a, int b) -> int n

05:17:04 asciilifeform: ^ proof

05:17:07 mircea_popescu: why are all these derps so adolescent ?

05:17:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so 22/3 = 2/23 ?

05:17:37 mircea_popescu: why not f(a,b) = 1 then

05:17:55 adlai: concatenation doesn't work, you need to interleave

05:17:59 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Actual line from text you though worthy of offering a solution to: "Currently she was being referred to as the Sparkly Unicorn Princess of the Noble and Most Ancient House of Sparklypoo."

05:18:14 adlai: (or use funky encodings)

05:18:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: just proving membership in ring!

05:18:16 mircea_popescu: cast down the heretic adlai, he means to leaven our numbers!

05:18:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not equality

05:18:57 *: adlai is still trying to get over the amazement that there's the 'same number' of rationals and complexes

05:19:27 mircea_popescu: not so.

05:19:36 mircea_popescu: only if your definition of complexes is based on rational parameters.

05:19:41 mircea_popescu: 1+ei is not in that set.

05:19:45 BingoBoingo: ^

05:19:53 adlai: ok ok ok

05:19:57 mircea_popescu: true that this is the pedestrrian definition given in school

05:20:05 BingoBoingo: Aleph as many subs

05:20:07 mircea_popescu: a fine example of "teachning kids math = making kids unable to understand math"

05:20:39 mircea_popescu: and ima link http://fraudsters.com/2014/its-not-the-sauce-its-the-poultry-and-other-metamathematical-considerations/ here because it's muy related.

05:20:39 assbot: It's not the sauce, it's the poultry and other metamathematical considerations pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKl6TD )

05:20:51 *: adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes

05:20:58 asciilifeform: 'The darwin x86_64 gnat crashes with "illegal instruction: 4" on my macbook pro / OS X 10.7.5 :-(Edit: I upgraded to OS X 10.8.3. Now gnat works...' -- from a forum comment. shitgnomism.

05:21:38 asciilifeform: and fuck, i blew a benjie on chinese aftermarket ssd made just for that box, so it would hold this thing

05:21:44 asciilifeform: was to be the ada-in-bed machine

05:22:04 asciilifeform: (box in question has proprietary disk controller that won't take standard drives)

05:22:36 asciilifeform: every time i pick it up from shelf, thinking of using it for something...

05:22:37 asciilifeform: this.

05:23:29 BingoBoingo: * adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes << Aleph progresses in cardenality up through ALeph sub aleph

05:24:11 asciilifeform: me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target'

05:24:12 *: adlai is still in א₀

05:25:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, people have been trained to believe in this "upgrade and everything's gonna be better" mantra.

05:25:17 mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea ever. but it's so much like "progress", and "what the consumers should come to expect"

05:25:31 adlai: (not yet convinced that real numbers 'exist' outside of theory and approximations)

05:25:44 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target' << 9" model and .22 LR makes a nice pop when phosphors are too faded

05:25:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the direct effect of shitgnomism where 'the doctor healed the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'

05:26:32 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wrong mac

05:26:38 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that one doesn't deserve it

05:26:52 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Everything later is just NeXT abotus

05:26:59 BingoBoingo: *abortus

05:27:28 BingoBoingo: Born of the same reasoning that leads one to jack off inside a pussy in a .gif

05:28:50 BingoBoingo: But still eventually CRT phosphors become worn and mercy needs to be applied

05:29:24 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've a massive 'sun' trinitron here that 'needs mercy'

05:29:28 BingoBoingo: The lead on glass on lead pop is a satisfying noise

05:29:30 decimation: asciilifeform: the devilish thing about apple 'upgrades' is that the old versions no longer exist

05:29:50 decimation: try 'upgrading' a 10.6 mac to 10.7 and not 10.8, for instance

05:30:19 asciilifeform: decimation: exists as much as you want. l33t w4r3z

05:30:26 decimation: asciilifeform: aye

05:30:27 trinque: decimation: not that I run OS X, but I think that justifies torrenting anything prior

05:30:28 asciilifeform: decimation: problem is that the later turds won't run on that box

05:30:36 asciilifeform: they EOLed a '09 box, yes

05:30:38 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Are there any open spaces? the cheapest .22 LR rounds tend to be more satisfying. If you have a camera that can capture slow motion, especially avoid the copper plate ones

05:30:40 asciilifeform: i shit thee not

05:31:08 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nearest 'open' space in your customary sense is many hours away.

05:31:18 BingoBoingo: decimation: Mac OS versions ended at 7.x

05:31:19 asciilifeform: and has a 'tresspassers will be shot again' sign, most certainly.

05:31:23 decimation: asciilifeform: yes, I have a couple of early intel macbooks that have been abandoned

05:31:38 adlai: survivors*

05:32:01 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted

05:32:02 decimation: they run 10.6.8, and will forever I guess

05:32:16 asciilifeform: decimation: aha. this one does.

05:32:33 decimation: even macports is failing to keep updates going, because they were 32-bit

05:32:43 *: adlai feels that survivors of https://www.bitfinex.com/account/api are likely to be shot again, by their own trigger

05:32:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giljnh )

05:32:55 decimation: I did manage to hack the efi bootloader into 'dual booting' gentoo once

05:33:06 decimation: but it was pointless because of the driver brokenness

05:33:10 asciilifeform: decimation: a box without 100% working suspend-to-ram is worthless to me

05:33:21 asciilifeform: decimation: if BingoBoingo lived here i'd give it to him to shoot.

05:33:25 adlai: random retardation of the day: trade history has no indication of whether an action took place on margin or was an asset exchange

05:33:35 asciilifeform: decimation: hence total lack of interest in attempting to put a civilized unixlike on these

05:33:46 decimation: yeah. it's a lost cause

05:34:04 decimation: it would be more 'comfortable' to use one of those tadpole laptops

05:34:09 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Honestly I'd prolly try to save it if I made it. Hard to find anything with built in 13w3

05:34:19 asciilifeform: i've ran across folks who claim to have done it - but on close examination, it always turns out that they're living with some 'small' imperfection that i find utterly intolerable

05:34:25 asciilifeform: (e.g. the suspend mode thing)

05:34:57 adlai: s2ram is just a fancy way of saying "leave the dustoff at the bureau, all you need is quick hands and an evidence bag"

05:35:01 decimation: yeah the suspend mode thing is really annoying

05:35:10 decimation: without it you just have a rather useless desktop

05:35:23 asciilifeform: adlai: don't process 'interesting' bits on a proprietary crudware box

05:35:34 BingoBoingo: decimation: If you get the chance A/Ux is a pretty fun unix

05:36:01 decimation: eh, I rather have one of asciii's genera boxen

05:36:09 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has said this in the past, and it boggles my mind - what posixy gadget of any interest whatsoever builds on a/ux ?

05:36:41 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My fascination stems from it being the first vagually *nixy thing I encountered.

05:36:46 asciilifeform: ah

05:37:05 asciilifeform: i suppose this is how folks end up with 'shoe fetish' etc

05:37:08 *: decimation recalls using an ancient hp 'portable' computer running hp/ux as a youth

05:37:23 BingoBoingo: less than 3 years later I enountered mandrake linux more than 10 years more recent and was disappoint

05:37:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00037125 = 16.1865 BTC [-] {2}

05:37:52 BingoBoingo: Now I yearn for Ti-89BSD

05:37:58 adlai: ah more excellent kodmuzik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI-2i6t7Zs

05:38:00 assbot: The Bad Plus - Seven Minute Mind - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GimfrJ )

05:38:16 adlai: though it irks me to no end that the song is not in fact seven minutes long

05:38:28 *: asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed

05:38:39 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Prolly.

05:38:45 *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to actually get to do it, ever

05:39:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you did, imagine the warfain you'd need

05:39:05 decimation: asciilifeform: what about your chorded keyboard device? does that feel comfortable while lying down

05:39:09 BingoBoingo: *warfarin

05:39:19 asciilifeform: decimation: no and you can't program with it anyway

05:39:27 asciilifeform: (assuming you were speaking of 'microwriter')

05:39:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00038677 = 10.1721 BTC [+] {2}

05:39:55 decimation: yeah, but it seems a chorded entry system of some kind would allow you to lay on your back

05:40:22 asciilifeform: decimation: not even thinking of anything so ambitious

05:40:23 BingoBoingo: At some point faced with the twin maws of conspiracy and poisons one must choose discomfort of some measure.

05:40:32 asciilifeform: just an actual computer that can be used other than on a desk

05:40:44 *: adlai has yet to see a good human-touchscreen api for reading and editing source code... but assuming one existed, a 'tablet' would be quite convenient for bedcode

05:41:15 asciilifeform: adlai: and a pill that lets you fart 10000N*m would be very convenient for transatlantic flight

05:41:23 asciilifeform: but same idea.

05:41:30 BingoBoingo: !b 3

05:41:31 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DG3NMA.txt )

05:41:36 *: gabriel_laddel is lying on a couch, writing on a laptop computer

05:41:45 adlai: like the romans ate?

05:41:53 adlai: that cramps my vestigial wings

05:42:06 decimation: adlai: try waving your hands around like tom cruise in 'minority report' for about 10 minutes and see how you feel

05:42:09 trinque: adlai: I've got a sort of AST making circle menu thing in my head

05:42:16 trinque: have never tried to make it

05:42:25 trinque: you'd sort of crawl along the grammar

05:42:27 gabriel_laddel: adlai: nah, lying on my back

05:42:30 trinque: eventually though you need to type words...

05:42:35 asciilifeform: trinque: i tried just this

05:42:39 adlai: decimation: touchscreen ≠ glove-activated vaporware

05:42:41 asciilifeform: not recommended.

05:42:52 trinque: asciilifeform: cooler to look at for 5min I'd guess

05:42:57 asciilifeform: touch screen in the best of times sucks for the same reason as mouse

05:43:18 asciilifeform: clutters visual cortex & attention span window with what ought to be 100% spinal column work

05:44:43 adlai: ideally, something where i could hold the device with one hand, and do all tasks with a single finger... you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing, and a program-aware editor can do much much much better than the current keyboards because namespacing greatly narrows the likely lexemes

05:44:51 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> clutters visual cortex << Wait you trust that api???

05:45:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?

05:45:43 *: asciilifeform thinks that if BingoBoingo is going to 'don't trust your brain' he needs to share the good dope first

05:45:58 decimation: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html

05:45:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GinBmi )

05:46:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That high up on the brain, thing could lie. Gotta trust the lizard brain and little higher

05:46:11 decimation: ^ above link demonstrates 'alternate text entry'

05:46:22 asciilifeform: decimation: ew

05:46:25 decimation: hehe yeah

05:46:43 trinque: asciilifeform: yeah roughly that but with grammar rules

05:46:46 decimation: it would be good if you could only move your tongue though

05:46:47 trinque: it'd probably suck

05:46:49 BingoBoingo: If the responsible part of the brain touches the skull, my general rule is to doubt it

05:47:23 trinque: er meant decimation

05:47:59 decimation: adlai: gesture typing sucks, at least as implemented on 'modern' phones

05:48:01 adlai: why should you trust an internal part of the brain any more than the grey stuff? it's not like you have [consciously available] stimuli re: what's happening there

05:48:23 decimation: I liked 'typing' gestures into my palm pilot, but somehow that technology disappeared

05:48:35 asciilifeform: decimation: i loved that thing

05:48:43 asciilifeform: decimation: it... worked

05:48:46 adlai: as i said, gesture typing needs to be boosted with program-awareness

05:48:49 decimation: yeah, modern gesture 'typepads' suck by comparison

05:48:51 asciilifeform: and didn't throw glitter garbage in your face

05:48:53 asciilifeform: ever.

05:49:12 decimation: asciilifeform: especially considering it had like 1% of the modern smartphone's cpu

05:49:15 adlai: when your likely input set is an entire language, even a crappy markov chain leaves tons of noise

05:49:25 trinque: adlai: I worked on a visual programming bullshit thing for a year and a half as a job

05:49:26 asciilifeform: decimation: precisely -why-

05:49:43 trinque: really don't think it can be made to do more than toy interfaces for end users

05:49:49 decimation: adlai: somehow customizing the input 'typepad algorithm' is a 'missing option' on all smart devices

05:49:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00038703 = 19.7579 BTC [+]

05:49:57 trinque: at least without a huge slowdown compared to typing it out

05:50:28 trinque: for example imagine doing sql joins with a venn diagram

05:50:29 trinque: say 20 joins

05:50:32 trinque: :p

05:50:40 trinque: but it seems like such genius with a single join!

05:50:47 BingoBoingo: http://www.drunkard.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36899

05:50:48 assbot: Modern Drunkard Forum • View topic - Lizard Brain's taking over ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX5VFq )

05:51:02 decimation: trinque: asciilifeform has explained before why graphical interfaces suck for programming

05:51:27 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019353

05:51:27 assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 05:30:33; decimation: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/ << "I can’t speak for everyone, but when I program, I like to be able to make use of the rather-hefty chunk of my brain that evolved as a language co-processor. Language provides compact abstractions in a way that is difficult to beat using graphics except for inherently-visual tasks (the motion of mechanical parts, etc.)"

05:51:50 trinque: ^ yep

05:51:57 asciilifeform: ^ soemwhere in there yes

05:51:59 trinque: language is precisely for this

05:52:15 adlai: typing [+slime-fuzzy] is likely to remain faster than pretty much any other muscle-based input, just due to evolutionary accident... but the quest here, as i see it, is for a drastically more convenient interface, which sacrifices less than the current ones (which aren't even that convenient)

05:52:21 trinque: this being describing some set of actions, facts, whatever, for something else to learn and/or carry out

05:52:41 trinque: adlai: what I'd like to see is the structure of the program in some way

05:52:49 trinque: use the visual part to traverse, not to write code

05:52:50 asciilifeform: so far, every alternative i've tried vs qwerty keyboard - simply stinks

05:53:05 asciilifeform: notice that i didn't end my 'engelbart's violin' article with 'and now i use microwriter'

05:53:10 decimation: asciilifeform: have you followed the 'movement' to re-create stenotypes?

05:53:13 trinque: there are types of code mess that at least seem like they'd "look like shit" with the right goggles

05:53:15 asciilifeform: but with 'i should have been forced to use microwriter since age 3'

05:53:26 asciilifeform: decimation: fuck stenotypes

05:53:37 asciilifeform: decimation: confined to natural lang.

05:53:41 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, I looked into them, but they seem useless for programming

05:53:43 decimation: aye

05:53:57 asciilifeform: and what 're-create'

05:53:59 asciilifeform: they never went anywhere

05:54:05 asciilifeform: visit a courthouse anywhere in usa

05:54:19 asciilifeform: so much stenotype 'can eat them with your arse'

05:54:19 decimation: the story I got was that those devices are priced at bezzle rates

05:54:23 decimation: plus the training to use them

05:54:30 adlai: anybody tried one-handed dvorak?

05:54:33 asciilifeform: certified guildsmen

05:54:38 asciilifeform: but if you just want one for no reason - ebay

05:54:51 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah but try to hook it up to your computer to run emacs :)

05:54:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00036462 = 4.2478 BTC [-]

05:55:12 asciilifeform: decimation: a good many have standard rs232 tty

05:55:40 decimation: ah well then maybe it's straightforward

05:55:53 decimation: some folks try to make a 'ghetto steno' using a keyboard

05:56:08 decimation: but most keyboards cannot handle chorded keypresses

05:56:10 asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.loper-os.org/mwemu/mwemu.html << go right ahead

05:56:11 assbot: MwEmu ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gippf9 )

05:56:34 asciilifeform: ^ i wrote this for folks who just couldn't help but want

05:56:48 decimation: hehe

05:57:03 adlai: being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position

05:57:24 asciilifeform: adlai: what would you use for the machine itself ?

05:57:42 asciilifeform: adlai: any hobbyist worth his salt can build a keyboard

05:57:46 asciilifeform: but the computer - we don't have.

05:58:23 adlai: any vanilla keyboard, mapped to some bastardization of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard#One-handed_versions

05:58:25 assbot: Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipKhO )

05:59:01 asciilifeform: why the preoccupation with single hand, anyway? just came back from iran, got chopped ?

05:59:08 decimation: http://plover.stenoknight.com/2011/10/split-screen-demonstration.html < guy doing 'steno' on a qwerty keyboard

05:59:09 assbot: Plover, the Open Source Steno Program: Split-Screen Demonstration ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipT4M )

05:59:56 decimation: if not single hand, why not single finger? or two? can do with morse

06:01:50 trinque: adlai: I've got most of what I do in stump down to a single-handed binding

06:02:05 decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_icJLmsFNU < 60 wpm morse 'entry'

06:02:07 assbot: High Speed Morse Code with an N3ZN Telegraph key by WØAAA - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqpQg )

06:02:14 BingoBoingo: adlai> being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position << You'd be surprised what you can do when you surrender to WIMP, your keyboard has a clit, and the ETOH has reduced you to half f a lizard's funtioning brain mass

06:02:15 trinque: not as happy with stump as I'd hoped

06:02:25 asciilifeform: decimation: 'glass arm' candidate

06:02:26 adlai: for one, you'd be able to touchtype 'roman style' ( http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/files/2012/08/reclining_triclinium.jpg ); also, you'd have a hand free for tending to non-computer matters, such as pets or your poison of choice

06:02:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giqsvs )

06:02:35 trinque: I want an uppermost level concept of task, then several layouts for that task

06:02:47 trinque: I'm building that now around stump

06:03:02 adlai: anything public?

06:03:02 decimation: asciilifeform: nah, he's using a keyer with very small entry force

06:03:02 trinque: might jack the "tasks" back into helm

06:03:09 asciilifeform: decimation: even worse

06:03:10 decimation: if you wanna hurt your hand you use a straight key

06:03:14 trinque: adlai: neh once I extract the tasks thing from my config maybe

06:03:16 asciilifeform: decimation: it's the repetitive action that nails you

06:03:23 asciilifeform: telegraphers were the first to discover

06:03:33 decimation: asciilifeform: sure, but only if you are doing it with alot of force

06:03:40 decimation: note he's moving his hand side-to-side

06:03:40 trinque: adlai: but! it improves daily as stumpwmrc and the repl side by side are a binding

06:03:43 adlai: trinque: please /join #stumpwm and share if/when you do

06:04:05 trinque: yeah maybe so

06:04:24 decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsgEdmlUf0 < high speed straight key, impressive

06:04:26 assbot: High speed morse telegraphy using a straight key - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqP9j )

06:04:43 *: adlai has often pondered how to get stumpwm more aware of what the windows are doing, but the ways he imagines doing this involve teaching stumpwm more about the programs than they like to reveal programmatically

06:04:58 trinque: adlai: I'm just farting around with window titles

06:05:07 trinque: define-frame-preference

06:05:30 trinque: and in fact this sucks, since emacs changes it several times after making a new frame and loading shit

06:05:42 trinque: need to find a good place to call place-existing-windows

06:05:43 adlai: see why i'm so curious about the lispm :P

06:05:44 *: BingoBoingo wonders if he is the exception planning his interface not around his most capable moments, but around his least...

06:05:52 trinque: adlai: man I want one too

06:06:06 trinque: even if all it does is edit text, check email, and transfer files

06:06:07 adlai: BingoBoingo: on the contrary, i think of all this as 'stoner-proof productivity'

06:06:28 ben_vulpes: hear hear

06:06:30 trinque: adlai: yeah

06:06:33 asciilifeform: decimation: ru text says 'telegraphy bowl ... 1st stage, 2-4 feb. '07, brest'

06:06:38 decimation: hehe yeah

06:06:42 decimation: he was almost certainly east german

06:06:43 adlai: my goal is to increase transaction costs for distractions, and decrease them for productive activities - and have some reasonably real-time control over the productivity gradient

06:06:45 trinque: I can be blazed as hell and press one button

06:06:49 trinque: boom, project is open and arranged

06:07:04 decimation: my understanding is that in the ru high speed telegraphy is something of a minor sport

06:07:04 BingoBoingo: adlai: But even if your choice of intoxicant you set a floor for its effect

06:07:16 BingoBoingo: !up Asenath

06:07:22 adlai: "even if"?

06:07:25 asciilifeform: decimation: must be a practice run - plug is dangling on the floor

06:07:37 decimation: aye

06:07:54 ben_vulpes: adlai: this distraction thing is a human factors problem.

06:08:04 ben_vulpes: discipline thyself.

06:08:23 *: adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbORXEmbnk

06:08:24 assbot: You rack disciprine - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7Mdv )

06:08:35 BingoBoingo: adlai: Do you indulge in any aqueous intoxicants which push both your peripheral and centeral nervous system to functional minimums

06:08:59 trinque: "do you like booze, bro?"

06:09:02 trinque: lol

06:09:08 BingoBoingo: trinque: Maybe?

06:09:54 decimation: asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9S-NzsUD5w < another contestant apparently at the same competition, except she is using a keyer

06:09:55 assbot: High Speed Telegraphy Transmission - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7WBA )

06:09:55 *: adlai makes no a-priori constraints on intoxicant choices, since supply, demand, and the threat of violence are strict enough already

06:10:29 asciilifeform: decimation: woah

06:10:39 decimation: yeah that's highly impressive

06:10:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ check out the gurl

06:11:08 adlai: although i have a 'standing desk', which places a lower limit to the motor control necessary for all computer use

06:11:19 decimation: she doesn't have anything that is slowing down the propagation along her myelin sheaths :)

06:11:41 asciilifeform: lol re: the ru-built exam box

06:11:57 decimation: yeah it is probably providing audible 'beeps'

06:12:27 asciilifeform: the one in the first min. appears to be a digital decoder

06:12:28 decimation: typically the way the keyer works is that one side is continuous dashes and the other is continuous dots

06:12:32 asciilifeform: not mere buzzer

06:12:43 decimation: asciilifeform: probably the 'keyer' electronics

06:12:50 asciilifeform: decimation: i know, built one meself as a boy, who hasnt

06:12:55 asciilifeform: both kinds

06:13:10 decimation: the fancy ones have alternating dots and dashes when held together

06:13:23 adlai: this (gurl's skill) is really just a matter of having a good word->twich compiler

06:13:25 decimation: she might have some kind of 'grading' software

06:13:53 asciilifeform: every bit as interesting as what a good pianist does

06:14:01 mircea_popescu: whoa nelly

06:14:08 asciilifeform: where are the telegraphygurlz in usa!?

06:14:10 *: mircea_popescu goes back to catching up oin the log for the 3rd time today

06:14:20 asciilifeform: what even is this place

06:14:22 asciilifeform: without them

06:14:26 decimation: asciilifeform: I think ru still uses telegraphy in aircraft

06:14:47 asciilifeform: decimation: telegraphy is the 'internet of last resort'

06:14:52 asciilifeform: from now until alpha centauri

06:15:06 asciilifeform: doesn't get any lower tech while still electric

06:15:57 decimation: asciilifeform: we don't even have typistgurls in the usa anymore

06:16:00 asciilifeform: but even in ru they bowed out and gave agents portable tape-punchies

06:16:03 adlai: develop a good compiler-compiler for new daily telegraphies, and you don't even need crypto!

06:16:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040834 << not everyone lives in chicago you know.

06:16:21 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 05:32:01; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted

06:16:46 adlai: the real competition should be "who can learn fastest a new randomly-generated telegraph encoding"

06:17:34 asciilifeform: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/spy/r350/burst.htm << puncher

06:17:34 assbot: R-350 Burst Encoder ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitakB )

06:17:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I live on th other side of Illinois North/South Axis, still more lawless, especially if diversity is invoked

06:17:54 mircea_popescu: adlai or hire one, 599 /month

06:18:52 decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position

06:18:54 assbot: Exploring the Tupolev Tu-95 "Bear" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitoYW )

06:18:54 asciilifeform: notice also the pen for cheating

06:18:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040868 << why ?

06:18:56 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 05:38:28; *: asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed

06:19:01 mircea_popescu: seriously now. why not shower in bed ?

06:19:10 mircea_popescu: why not program in wheelchair ?

06:19:18 BingoBoingo: !b 3

06:19:18 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03S37SY.txt )

06:19:19 mircea_popescu: be as genius as that hawkins dude

06:19:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's like asking a shoe fetishist, why shoes, why not socks, hats

06:19:38 adlai: i'm guessing the ones for hire have hardcoded, monolithic parser-compilers, from countless hours spent translating the same encoding... sure, it's impressive to watch, but useless when a new alphabet pops up

06:19:42 asciilifeform: i like bed, blankets, warmth

06:19:45 asciilifeform: idleness

06:19:46 mircea_popescu: i've been known to do that.

06:19:51 mircea_popescu: also ask lesbos why no c0k

06:19:54 asciilifeform: aha

06:19:58 asciilifeform: good question, no?

06:20:03 asciilifeform: but never an interesting answer

06:20:11 asciilifeform: because spinal column can't talk

06:22:02 adlai: another solution is dictation, but it seems that for years to come, the best way to dictate code is via a human typist

06:22:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113000 @ 0.00036114 = 40.8088 BTC [-] {4}

06:23:24 adlai: !down

06:23:30 adlai: !down adlai

06:24:12 mircea_popescu: noob adlai

06:26:59 mircea_popescu: "you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing" basically you lot just aspire to be cripples.

06:27:15 mircea_popescu: "oh, how glorious if i couldn't stand and i only had one weavery appendage i could move"

06:27:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60200 @ 0.00037881 = 22.8044 BTC [+]

06:27:34 *: asciilifeform 'tried' once (broke a hand) - didn't like

06:27:43 decimation: mircea_popescu: if one day you have a stroke and could only blink one eye, you might find the skill useful

06:28:03 mircea_popescu: i would certainly not use my only fucking remining blinker to code omfg.

06:28:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu is colorblind, that's a kind of crippled

06:29:05 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you're not the poor sod who'd starve without coding either.

06:30:07 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [04:55] that the fella actually thought he was 'using pgp' << wait wut? who biffed at this epic scale?

06:30:22 *: BingoBoingo doesn't imagine his ideal interface for coding uses, but for handling "ideal datacenter" eventually

06:30:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i'd blink my way to broadway success!

06:30:51 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-2dfEc70gU << airplane from earlier

06:30:52 assbot: RARE | Tupolev Tu-95MS Inflight | HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Givx6Z )

06:31:00 asciilifeform: peculiarly good film

06:31:40 decimation: asciilifeform: the 'long range aviation command' still flies those things

06:33:10 *: asciilifeform not specialist, doesn't know what the point of those machines is, if you have rocket

06:33:33 asciilifeform: but for some odd - i suspect, ceremonial - reason - they still exist

06:34:19 decimation: well, they can carry rockets

06:34:29 asciilifeform: (ballistic rocket)

06:34:51 asciilifeform: why such a thing as 'trans-oceanic bomber' is needed, is beyond me

06:35:07 decimation: heh. to annoy countries across the ocean

06:35:19 trinque: you can't buzz your enemies with a rocket, turning back at the last moment

06:35:26 asciilifeform: so - ceremonial.

06:36:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25533 @ 0.00038703 = 9.882 BTC [+]

06:36:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ceremonial, and... at one point they outnumbered rockets... Hence NIke Hercules

06:36:51 asciilifeform: at one point musketry.

06:36:59 asciilifeform: at one point slings.

06:37:37 asciilifeform: but for some peculiar reason - no musket brigades in modern armies

06:37:47 asciilifeform: nor sling corps

06:38:12 mircea_popescu: ahem.

06:38:20 mircea_popescu: ;;google 13eme dragons parachutistes

06:38:21 gribble: 13th Parachute Dragoon Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Parachute_Dragoon_Regiment; 13e régiment de dragons parachutistes - Ministère de la Défense: http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/presentation/organisation-des-forces/arme-blindee-cavalerie/13e-regiment-de-dragons-parachutistes; 13eme RDP - Régiment des dragons parachutistes (1 more message)

06:38:51 mircea_popescu: suck on that for a while. paradragoons!

06:39:21 decimation: wait, I thought dragoons were horse-mounted infantry

06:40:04 decimation: do they paracute with their horse?

06:40:15 mircea_popescu: lol.

06:40:33 asciilifeform: laugh, but ru parachutists often had dogs

06:40:52 asciilifeform: nobody trained the beasts to pull the cord, no. dropped in boxes

06:40:59 asciilifeform: with autoparachute

06:41:04 decimation: oh, re: La Marseillaise < I find the lyrics hilarious, especially in modern times

06:41:29 decimation: a white communist and a black algerian living in the suburbs could both sing La Marseillaise and mean exactly opposite things

06:42:00 asciilifeform: (you can drop anything you want with chutes, even tank. read how.)

06:42:13 decimation: asciilifeform: a dog is a useful asset in the military, for a variety of tasks

06:42:21 asciilifeform: well yes

06:43:11 asciilifeform: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882621/Special-forces-soldiers-dogs-tandem-parachute-freefall-10-000ft.html << nato soldiers had dogs tied to them instead

06:43:13 assbot: Special forces soldiers and their dogs take part in tandem parachute freefall | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQt80R )

06:43:13 asciilifeform: turns out

06:44:24 trinque: sounds like a great way to get sprayed with shit and piss on the way down

06:44:53 asciilifeform: if muzzle falls off,

06:44:54 asciilifeform: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png/220px-Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png

06:44:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQtlB0 )

06:45:22 decimation: 'and the dog too!'

06:45:57 asciilifeform: decimation: the dog was there to add 'spice'

06:46:01 asciilifeform: he'd nibble a bit

06:46:14 asciilifeform: notice both hanging by legs

06:46:18 mircea_popescu: motherfucker

06:46:29 mircea_popescu: google is now serving "filtered" results and no way to turn the shit off anymore ?!

06:46:39 mircea_popescu: WHAT THE FUCK AMERICA! GET LOST!

06:47:17 mircea_popescu: ;;google skydiving fucking gif

06:47:18 gribble: fuck yeah skydiving: http://fuckyeahskydiving.tumblr.com/; Referees Showing Some Sass, a Skydiving Seizure, and the GIFs ...: https://sports.vice.com/article/referees-showing-some-sass-a-skydiving-seizure-and-the-gifs-you-missed; airplane+skydiver=fuck - Album on Imgur: http://imgur.com/a/M4sK5

06:47:29 mircea_popescu: ^ was going to say teh americans are taking their bitches

06:47:36 mircea_popescu: but no, they aren't.

06:47:47 trinque: censorship, the humor destroyer

06:47:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'google images' ?

06:48:00 asciilifeform: still shows as optional here

06:48:29 mircea_popescu: Moderate SafeSearch is on and clickable. if you click on it tho,. "Set your SafeSearch preferences in the blue box below." and the blue box says

06:48:35 mircea_popescu: SafeSearch Filtering

06:48:35 mircea_popescu: Google's SafeSearch blocks web pages containing explicit sexual content from appearing in search results.

06:48:35 mircea_popescu: Show most relevant results

06:48:35 mircea_popescu: Filter explicit results.

06:48:37 mircea_popescu: which bs.

06:48:56 trinque: google "skydiving fucking"... get http://s17.photobucket.com/user/wetfrombirthx/media/newyears08066.jpg.html

06:48:58 assbot: newyears08066.jpg Photo by wetfrombirthx | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiyO6n )

06:49:07 BingoBoingo: !up BananaLotus

06:49:10 BingoBoingo: !up guruvan

06:49:25 mircea_popescu: trinque there's this one bangbros if memory serves scene

06:49:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: works as usual here

06:49:37 mircea_popescu: where they did actually spend the 28k or w/e to shoot a chick being pounded in air

06:49:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess it won't last.

06:50:00 mircea_popescu: google has been on a shitmission the past 5 years or so, it becomes less and less useful.

06:50:06 asciilifeform: what's been censored anyway

06:50:19 asciilifeform: w4r3z ?

06:50:36 mircea_popescu: well, apparently for some reason i can't have pronz in google nao.

06:50:43 asciilifeform: weird

06:50:50 asciilifeform: what else is 'images' used for.

06:51:03 mircea_popescu: last week they came up with the "no pronz in bloigger" thing, which got everyone riled up so they decided they'll just implement it covertly instead of overtly

06:51:08 trinque: mircea_popescu: found this http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13d_1318607927

06:51:09 assbot: LiveLeak.com - Skydiving Sex Stunt (un-censored version!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giz8lA )

06:51:17 mircea_popescu: and generally speaking i'm sick and fucking tired of the new generation of usians and their ideas about the world.

06:51:57 asciilifeform: new?

06:52:04 mircea_popescu: newly voiced.

06:52:04 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Titties of the continent http://motherchubbypornphotos.org/teenfatanalsex/piece/piec/pi1025.jpg

06:52:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GizfO0 )

06:52:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:52:10 asciilifeform: as if the old idiots didn't try to censor pr0n

06:52:31 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i read as 'fatal anal sex'

06:52:31 *: mircea_popescu is fucking riled up.

06:52:46 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lol

06:52:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: does engl. have a catch-term for 'fatal buggery' ?

06:52:59 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe yoy are being singled out

06:53:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, "Mr Hands"

06:53:09 mircea_popescu: conspiraci!

06:53:12 asciilifeform: ru 'turkish wedding'

06:53:14 trinque: BingoBoingo: *shudder*

06:53:21 asciilifeform: normally implies spade handle or the like

06:53:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mr Hands died organically, by horse and normal intestinal flora

06:54:19 asciilifeform: 'by horse' l0l

06:54:24 BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel

06:54:25 gabriel_laddel: Thanks.

06:54:39 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: r.e., tits - eww.

06:54:43 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Literlly, Horse fucked Mr Hands to death

06:54:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some people do a lot more than spade handles, for fun. let me introduce you to daisy, from ny. http://gatsbyswhore.tumblr.com/ <<

06:54:57 assbot: Gatsby's Whore ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQv757 )

06:54:57 trinque: BingoBoingo: only took a few good thrusts

06:55:03 gabriel_laddel: SUBJECTIVE TASTE ISN'T

06:55:08 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Seriously that one, small waist big tits, what is the problem?

06:55:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l

06:55:58 gabriel_laddel: I guess I just have different tastes

06:56:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good candidate for smuggling 'mule'

06:56:44 mircea_popescu: yup.

06:56:51 asciilifeform: ... or not. could fall out

06:56:57 asciilifeform: much too easily

06:56:59 mircea_popescu: i kinda suspect that's how the entire anal stretcher niche got to be a thing.

06:57:04 mircea_popescu: nah.

06:57:16 asciilifeform: but at any rate, betcha that thing's way out of calibration

06:57:32 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/ffd6514e0619eaaa5d2295c912d807ef/tumblr_n877uvkGV61sg0ns8o1_1280.jpg

06:57:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiA9df )

06:57:40 trinque: bet it makes for easier human skull exit

06:57:41 mircea_popescu: "even the asshole shoots once"

06:57:46 gabriel_laddel: http://www.shadbase.com/gamer360/

06:57:47 assbot: Shädbase - L33t Gamer ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiAf4J )

06:58:07 trinque: I wonder if there've been cultures that did fisting as a sort of obvious "of course you fist before squatting out humans"

06:58:34 mircea_popescu: ;;ud squatting out

06:58:35 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squatter | squatter. In public toilets one who sits all day on a commode waiting for a penis to come at him through a glory ... We can't get these squatters out of our house!

06:59:14 asciilifeform: trinque: questionable given the actual bottleneck in the system (cervix)

06:59:27 asciilifeform: trinque: not that no one tried - but how well worked.

06:59:55 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... or not. could fall out << Sutures

07:00:05 trinque: BingoBoingo: zipper!

07:00:08 asciilifeform: superglue

07:00:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo behind the times

07:00:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have a purely anatomical view of what is a physiological process.

07:00:31 mircea_popescu: the girls that fist that i fucked don't have worse grasp than the naive set.

07:00:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> superglue << Too great a chance of "healing"

07:00:59 mircea_popescu: similarly, the girls that can swallow a snake don't puke a lot.

07:01:28 asciilifeform: ^ that one actually makes naive sense

07:01:34 BingoBoingo: Sutures spaced, don't make matching folds the same... cyanoacrylate though...

07:02:07 trinque: mircea_popescu: the thing does seem to have an "accepting" mode

07:02:18 trinque: activated by being well-fucked among other methods I'm sure

07:02:24 mircea_popescu: now obviously if done badly/traumatically the results are more like you know, that guy with the telephone poole

07:03:18 mircea_popescu: another internet classic which is apparently disappeared.

07:04:17 mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was on rotten.com

07:05:24 trinque: I'm off, goodnight all

07:15:14 *: asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in

07:15:20 gabriel_laddel: hahaha

07:15:44 asciilifeform: tried to take photo, but 2 in the morning and damn near impossible to get a good shot through glass and mosquito net

07:15:55 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Why did you choose to name the #b-a lordship as such? Is there a historical system of governance you are drawing inspiration from in particular?

07:16:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the photo in question was the famous 'goatse'

07:16:46 asciilifeform: and it can never disappear

07:17:35 asciilifeform: the lonesome disk that survives the great nukefest will turn out to contain it

07:17:39 *: asciilifeform to bed

07:18:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00038703 = 15.7908 BTC [+]

07:18:33 adlai: true legends never die, they simply fade to plaintext... http://goatse.ch/

07:18:34 assbot: ASCII Goatse ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQzWvh )

07:20:31 adlai: gabriel_laddel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Serene_Republic

07:20:33 assbot: Most Serene Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQAjWW )

07:20:49 BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in << Left side of their face seems to be more receptive to blunt trauma if it comes to that... if your deer are anything like ours

07:34:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59654 @ 0.00038335 = 22.8684 BTC [-] {2}

07:35:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15147 @ 0.00036571 = 5.5394 BTC [-]

07:58:15 cazalla: haha holy fuck, derpopulous actually told the australian senate (with a straight face) he invisions a kid on a skateboard in indonesia running a billion dollar remittance business

08:00:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15904 @ 0.00036571 = 5.8163 BTC [-]

08:24:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15762 @ 0.00037023 = 5.8356 BTC [+]

08:28:21 fluffypony: lol cazalla

08:55:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00037023 = 6.0718 BTC [+]

09:01:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00036968 = 13.8075 BTC [-] {2}

09:31:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00036677 = 17.5499 BTC [-] {2}

09:34:59 kakobrekla: http://i.imgur.com/ose0MfD.gifv

09:35:00 assbot: This is bad, i guess. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NfnWIa )

09:39:46 fluffypony: ah South Africa

09:39:51 fluffypony: we're even training our lions, now

09:41:07 fluffypony: source vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeaztQK9If0

09:41:08 assbot: Lion opens car door - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18jEKNs )

09:43:19 adlai: clever girl!

09:50:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30390 @ 0.00037336 = 11.3464 BTC [+]

09:51:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg

09:51:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18jFfqX )

09:51:47 mircea_popescu: happened to someone else too!

10:05:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64542 @ 0.00037357 = 24.111 BTC [+] {2}

10:23:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4571 @ 0.00036429 = 1.6652 BTC [-]

10:25:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65166 @ 0.00036851 = 24.0143 BTC [+] {2}

11:11:21 fluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=974058.msg10633083#msg10633083

11:11:22 assbot: Chinese Mining mogul FriedCat has stolen more than a million in AM hash SCAM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EMBJ5p )

11:11:30 fluffypony: "I think FriedCat is not a real name. Does anyone know about FriedCat's real identity ?"

11:11:38 *: fluffypony giggles

11:12:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104400 @ 0.00037767 = 39.4287 BTC [+] {2}

11:32:52 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_HZWhmWoAIoxD8.jpg:large

11:32:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F8HkB1 )

11:36:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00037646 = 4.6681 BTC [-]

11:48:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00038333 = 13.4932 BTC [+] {2}

12:20:18 jurov: mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda-0.5.3.1

12:21:15 jurov: so to keep things clear, would be best to notch the version up.. but since you already officially announced it

12:21:18 jurov: then dunno

12:21:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.000372 = 23.8452 BTC [-] {2}

12:27:24 jurov: btw, #bitcoin-foundation is taken and invite-only

12:27:43 jurov: but #bitcoinfoundation was free and is now regged to me

12:29:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52700 @ 0.00038479 = 20.2784 BTC [+]

12:29:54 cazalla: scoopbot fetch

12:30:34 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/

12:30:35 assbot: Leaked Emails Detail Inner Workings Of Josh Garza's Scams | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BH153L )

12:33:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00037105 = 8.1631 BTC [-]

12:35:53 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/

13:05:31 danielpbarron: https://bitcointalk.org/seclog.php

13:05:32 assbot: Security log ... ( http://bit.ly/1M56OS6 )

13:06:01 danielpbarron: height=249322 vs height=198662 (usb3: height=234461)

13:06:21 punkman: cazalla: lol those emails

13:08:13 cazalla: hilarious eh

13:11:16 jurov: <Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?

13:12:04 punkman: cazalla: who leaked the emails btw?

13:13:39 punkman: cazalla: "Antonopoulos' appearance as an expect witness" << expert*

13:14:10 cazalla: not sure tbh, likely someone that worked there seeing garza burned bridges with his previous cohorts

13:14:30 cazalla: punkman, ty

13:14:42 punkman: you should find out how much they paid derpopoulos

13:15:04 fluffypony: "just seems pretty armature for him"

13:15:07 fluffypony: wtf spelling

13:15:17 fluffypony: I hope that's autocorrect wobblies on his part

13:16:05 cazalla: fluffypony, nope, that is how he spells

13:16:13 punkman: typing on a touch screen is just the best

13:16:13 *: fluffypony shudders

13:16:26 fluffypony: children should not be allowed to start companies.

13:17:35 punkman: why not

13:21:37 cazalla: there's more too, not as big a deal but still lulzy.. an employee says he needs some software for his work so garza sends him a cracked ms office https://drive.google.com/a/geniusesatwork.com/file/d/0By3omGwrRu9lcWpYSjZ3Q0IyOVU/view?pli=1

13:21:38 assbot: Microsoft Office 2011 _CRACKED - operatingsystem.rs.zip - Google Drive ... ( http://bit.ly/1M58DhX )

13:25:09 cazalla: guess rumours that he left US for Belguim is true too given his kids airline tickets http://mt.thalys.com/?srvgucc8cjnf4klwcq http://mt.thalys.com/?tonc68vv189e0pbv27

13:25:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSL3u )

13:25:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSHAL )

13:26:03 cazalla: train even

13:29:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46314 @ 0.00038266 = 17.7225 BTC [+]

13:35:26 davout: cazalla: lol

13:35:31 davout: that's next tuesday

13:35:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37886 @ 0.0003764 = 14.2603 BTC [-]

13:35:34 davout: if i count correctly

13:35:47 davout: coach 3, seat 16 :D

13:54:41 cazalla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu did ya see kruger of kruger industrial smoothing died?

13:54:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:54:47 mod6: <+jurov> mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda-0.5.3.1 << wat?

13:55:01 mod6: and i have #btcf

13:55:32 jurov: btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/?v=0.5.3.1 mod6 i explicitly asked you how to label this one

13:55:49 cazalla: apparently kruger shot himself in the head back in 2012 but it didn't work so good

13:55:56 jurov: and the consesus was 0.5.3.1 is as good as any

13:56:28 mod6: oh i see what you're saying

13:56:34 mod6: is that stuff patched?

13:56:56 jurov: yes, it was even published on website

13:57:16 mod6: o.O

13:57:22 mod6: i've never seen this before.

13:57:24 jurov: "chicken" was first version

13:57:40 jurov: then there was (your) build script with

13:57:44 jurov: additional patches

13:57:58 jurov: which we agreed upon to call 0.5.3.1

13:58:06 jurov: and the development goe son

13:58:42 jurov: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v0.5.3-0-gd05c03a.tar.gz and this is published, don't remember which one is that

13:58:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17QhfMj )

13:58:54 mod6: that's the base code

13:58:58 jurov: chicken?

13:59:14 mod6: no, the unpatched source from the powerrangers.

13:59:26 jurov: aha

14:00:31 jurov: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html and this is what i published as 0.5.3.1

14:00:46 jurov: because it does include the version bump patch

14:02:00 mod6: which patches does it include specifically?

14:02:25 jurov: you don't know which patches your script includes?

14:02:52 jurov: iirce they are listed here http://thebitcoin.foundation/

14:02:53 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/17heCm3 )

14:02:53 mod6: to make it build statically, there is another patch that I still need to submit yet (probably today) and another patch & full source to submit of a modified poratronic build script.

14:03:03 mod6: ah, it was with my script. ok

14:03:14 jurov: :D

14:04:18 jurov: so i propose to go on to 0.5.3.2 .. release early, release often

14:05:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00038479 = 4.983 BTC [+]

14:11:54 mod6: so yeah, when we said we were going to release in january; we hadn't hit the 160`001 tx sig verification issue yet and we hadn't considered the last-minute requirement of a static build.

14:12:30 mod6: so what you have is ok, but you're missing the stuff that'll be pushed out before we make a signed tar

14:12:49 mod6: which we're referring to as a "milestone" release

14:12:54 jurov: there will be many more bumps. don't expect any Release to End All Releases in near future

14:13:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117550 @ 0.00038551 = 45.3167 BTC [+] {2}

14:13:51 mod6: which will be: v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (static-makefile) } + modified poratronic build script & release notes.

14:13:53 jurov: better to make more minor releases properly numbered

14:14:20 mod6: we want to ensure that what is "released" actually works, and has been thoroughly tested.

14:15:10 mod6: we do a lot of regression testing :]

14:15:29 jurov: this is same pretense as what phoundation operates "it works we tested it"

14:15:42 jurov: nope. we are at bleeding edge and use at own peril

14:17:13 mod6: heh. ok what i mean is, "it compiles and we got it to fully sync, send/receive, generate..." but yeah, use at your own risk. we want to deliver something that doesn't just blow up -- kinda what ascii was frustrated with yesterday.

14:17:38 mod6: make sense?

14:18:58 jurov: not

14:19:27 jurov: i am just not placing any expectations to any piece of software anymore

14:19:56 jurov: but i understand you as management that wants to label the product somehow,

14:20:12 mod6: haha. ok. but i don't see a problem with testing our own thing. even if no one else uses this, i'd like to know if it works or not.

14:21:47 jurov: that actually stregthens the reason for bumping the version numbers often so that we can say X blows up when.., X+1 does not

14:24:01 jurov: so that people won't act surprised that "there was some version published" like you did few minutes ago

14:25:01 mod6: when we release there will be a formal annoucement to the mailing list, signed patches by ben & I, and an included signed tar of the patched source code with release notes.

14:26:17 Pierre_Rochard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041323 < thanks for the tip, I’ll set up a euro bank account when I’m in france this summer

14:26:17 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 13:11:16; jurov: <Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?

14:26:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 228740 @ 0.00038814 = 88.7831 BTC [+] {5}

14:26:42 jurov: Pierre_Rochard: and you're aware it's ran by davout ?

14:27:24 Pierre_Rochard: jurov: I am, brain had not connected all the way to “I should try it out”

14:27:34 jurov: heh

14:28:30 jurov: mod6 so then please if you publish signed build scripts like http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html

14:28:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6utP2 )

14:28:53 jurov: set the version to 0.5.3.x.dev

14:29:04 jurov: so that no one mistakes that for release

14:29:07 mod6: jurov: so as far as shorter release cycles, i think going forward they will be. the foundation will focus on say, one specific problem and then tackle it, patch it, and then regression test, release.

14:34:51 PeterL: why in c is a long int the same size as int?

14:38:25 mike_c: because int is shorthand for "long int"

14:38:36 mike_c: short int = 16 bits, long int = 32 bits

14:47:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29450 @ 0.00038995 = 11.484 BTC [+]

14:47:46 jurov: trinque, have you tried drakon editor? i actually use it for business logic

14:48:25 jurov: it isn't faster to create the code, but it makes it sooo easier to find the right place where stuff needs to be fixed

14:48:35 jurov: say, after several months

14:49:52 jurov: the downside is, generated code for complicated diagrams isn't anything you'd want to show to anyone

14:57:04 lobbes: Dr-G: You gotta fix your connection, my man. grep -c 'Dr-G' on my logs for yesterday returns over 100 lines...

15:10:38 thestringpuller: mike_c: lies. all lies. this is only if you use strict typing and you machine is coherent. every machine treats it differently!

15:11:04 thestringpuller: short ints however are always shorter than long ints hence the name

15:14:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00038995 = 11.2306 BTC [+]

15:28:26 jurov: !up Xuthus

15:28:30 jurov: !up indiancandy1

15:31:04 indiancandy1: why thank u

15:31:33 indiancandy1: any one know anything about internet marketing#

15:32:30 PeterL: I am sure you can search for "search engine optimization", or SEO, and lots of sites will come up who promise to help

15:36:19 PeterL: mircea_popescu:asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg << I don't know why, but this made me laugh until my eyes waterred

15:36:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5tYYw )

15:50:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00039007 = 17.0461 BTC [+] {3}

16:02:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3510 @ 0.00039117 = 1.373 BTC [+]

16:04:46 thestringpuller: http://imgur.com/RJUknE7

16:10:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30283 @ 0.00039142 = 11.8534 BTC [+] {2}

16:11:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36567 @ 0.00039337 = 14.3844 BTC [+]

16:24:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67900 @ 0.00038447 = 26.1055 BTC [-] {2}

16:29:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8842 @ 0.00038129 = 3.3714 BTC [-]

16:31:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54300 @ 0.00038129 = 20.704 BTC [-]

17:07:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00039337 = 4.7401 BTC [+]

17:09:14 asciilifeform: for zoologists >> http://housejeffries.com/articles/unix-delenda-est << every month or so, i turn up a new lamer who read my articles but catastrophically failed to get the message. the ones who 'agree', like this specimen, are the worst kind.

17:09:15 assbot: housejeffries ... ( http://bit.ly/1BSLUpS )

17:39:35 PeterL: asciilifeform: why do you say he did not get the message?

17:48:28 asciilifeform: PeterL: article is full of retardation (e.g. 'immutability', 'optimize for novices', etc)

17:49:02 asciilifeform: too much to list

17:58:30 BingoBoingo: Updated http://cryptome.org/2015/03/snowden-hk-security-devices.htm

17:58:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1B77x2n )

18:07:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167600 @ 0.00037987 = 63.6662 BTC [-] {3}

18:17:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55483 @ 0.00038964 = 21.6184 BTC [+] {2}

18:18:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118297 @ 0.00039874 = 47.1697 BTC [+] {3}

18:21:14 BingoBoingo: !up sjsqd

18:21:19 sjsqd: Thank you

18:21:24 jurov: !up sjsqd

18:21:32 sjsqd: I'm writing some articles on the bitcoin foundation via Let's Talk Bitcoin

18:21:42 sjsqd: and happened upon http://thebitcoin.foundation/ during a search

18:21:43 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLALLE )

18:21:53 sjsqd: Would anyone be interested in discussing it with me?

18:22:03 jurov: just ask

18:22:24 sjsqd: I couldn't find much reference to the original foundation in the documentation

18:22:36 asciilifeform: sjsqd: the first thing to know is that there are two foundations.

18:22:36 sjsqd: but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation?

18:22:56 jurov: sjsqd: the original one is the pirate one

18:22:58 fluffypony: altfoundation

18:23:00 fluffypony: :-P

18:23:07 nubbins`: sjsqd, what jurov said

18:23:20 sjsqd: is this thread official in nature? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934517.0

18:23:21 assbot: Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAPen )

18:23:24 PeterL: this new foundations works on the assumption that the previous one does not exist

18:23:36 sjsqd: ah ok

18:23:41 nubbins`: sjsqd the only official statements are PGP-signed statements from members of assbot's wot

18:23:58 sjsqd: I have done quite an amount of research on the foundation but never seen this page

18:24:02 nubbins`: if you check the mailing list archives on the .foundation website, there's a bunch of stuff there

18:24:10 sjsqd: do you know if anyone from the previous foundation is aware of it?

18:24:14 nubbins`: who cares

18:24:17 sjsqd: will do nubbins`

18:24:57 sjsqd: nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates

18:25:02 asciilifeform: sjsqd: the more heavily-advertised 'foundation' (vessenes, hearn, andresen, et al) was a scam from day one

18:25:13 nubbins`: ^

18:25:13 sjsqd: which I'm not aware anyone else has done so far

18:25:32 sjsqd: its certainly interesting to see two foundations with the same name (:

18:25:48 sjsqd: I will look at the mailing list, if I have further questions is there any email address I could use or is this IRC channel the best method of communication?

18:25:58 PeterL: this chan is best

18:26:04 nubbins`: think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph

18:26:09 BingoBoingo: sjsqd: That foundation has never really had any transparency. Vessenes birthed it in the shadows and snuck out the same way.

18:26:17 sjsqd: ok great, I will keep a record of this channel in my notes then

18:26:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.0003869 = 33.5829 BTC [-]

18:26:29 sjsqd: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-one

18:26:31 assbot: A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part One | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAWXl )

18:26:37 sjsqd: This is the first article I made if anyone is interested

18:26:44 sjsqd: second is here: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/transparency-a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-two

18:26:45 assbot: Transparency: A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part Two | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAXdR )

18:26:51 sjsqd: I will probably be publishing a third at some point this week

18:26:53 nubbins`: rad

18:27:07 nubbins`: this foundation is more interested in uh

18:27:16 nubbins`: making the codebase not a steaming pile of shit

18:27:19 PeterL: is gmaxwell associated with the phoundation? I remember him coming by here a few times

18:27:26 nubbins`: instead of campaigning/rallying/whatever

18:27:42 sjsqd: nubbins`:interesting

18:27:59 nubbins`: sjsqd the latest foundation release is 0.5.3.1

18:28:06 sjsqd: nubbins`:given the current state of foundation communications it is actually quite difficult to ascertain exactly what it is tasked with doing

18:28:24 nubbins`: think of it as a LTS stream

18:28:28 sjsqd: I'm still quite new to bitcoin, is the client that you release an alternative client?

18:28:41 nubbins`: it's the official foundation client :D

18:28:43 jurov: no it's the original client

18:28:57 jurov: it should be stripped to bare minimum first

18:29:01 sjsqd: I guess the term official/alternative isn't the best to use

18:29:04 nubbins`: based on the original 0.5.3 source code, with plain ol' unix patches applied to de-turdify it

18:29:13 sjsqd: but I assume the client you work on is different to bitcoin core?

18:29:17 nubbins`: each patch is intended to be small enough that a human can read and understand it

18:29:31 sjsqd: but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does?

18:29:31 ben_vulpes: sjsqd: it's just the old code.

18:29:34 nubbins`: the goal is to trim the fat from the oldest still-working code base

18:29:39 ben_vulpes: sjsqd: it's just. old. code.

18:29:42 asciilifeform: sjsqd: starting point was phoundation's release circa 2012

18:29:48 nubbins`: rather than add more fat to the same, which is how the current "bitcoin core" release came to be

18:29:50 sjsqd: ahh ok understood

18:29:58 ben_vulpes: no "gavinblocks"

18:30:08 ben_vulpes: someone removed the "alert" feature

18:30:13 ben_vulpes: dns is on the chopping block, etc.

18:30:19 nubbins`: win32 "features" removed

18:30:20 asciilifeform: already zapped

18:30:29 ben_vulpes: a right, asciilifeform excised the dns.

18:30:33 sjsqd: very interesting

18:30:35 ben_vulpes: no win32, no qt

18:30:38 nubbins`: slowly bringing it closer to the ideal of "one program to do one task"

18:30:45 asciilifeform: in the process of removing the idiot hardcoded seed list

18:30:47 nubbins`: ripping qt was ++

18:30:52 ben_vulpes: the question under consideration is "what precisely does it mean to bitcoinate?"

18:30:55 sjsqd: ok I will save everyone's time and look through the mailing list, I might return with some further questions later on

18:30:58 sjsqd: thanks for your time

18:30:59 ben_vulpes: the goal is to do that and nothing more.

18:31:47 BingoBoingo: <sjsqd> but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does? << Very different from multibit. Multibit is based on the Hearn BitcoinJ turd.

18:33:33 jurov: sjsqd, you can peruse the searchable logs here, too

18:33:50 nubbins`: ^

18:34:12 sjsqd: BingoBoingo: I'm not that well acquainted with how the different clients originated or their quality, more just a question of whether it is a bitcoin or an altcoin client; from what I understand it is a bitcoin client

18:34:22 sjsqd: ahh I see the URL for logs in the title

18:34:26 sjsqd: thanks for the pointer

18:34:34 ben_vulpes: sjsqd: a bitcoin client.

18:34:51 sjsqd: ben_vulpes:thanks

18:36:59 danielpbarron: sjsqd, how many LTBcoin did you get for writing those?

18:37:15 sjsqd: I got about 180k for the first one

18:37:21 sjsqd: clocked in at about 40ish USD

18:37:27 sjsqd: but I am holding the LTBcoin

18:37:34 sjsqd: (I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disclose that)

18:37:43 sjsqd: not enough to live on

18:37:51 sjsqd: but a good alternative income

18:37:56 danielpbarron: what determines how much you get for an article?

18:38:01 sjsqd: you basically earn based upon your proportion of page views

18:38:09 sjsqd: its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware

18:38:21 sjsqd: there is an editor too who makes my posts more readable

18:38:35 sjsqd: she gets a cut before I do

18:38:45 jurov: sjsqd, you know about qntra? it also pays (kinda) contributors

18:39:03 sjsqd: No I hadn't heard of it

18:39:11 jurov: qnra.net :)

18:39:11 sjsqd: Thanks I will check it out

18:39:20 jurov: * qntra.net

18:39:29 sjsqd: I found out about let's talk bitcoin via the foundation forums (andresen forums if you want to call it that)

18:39:45 danielpbarron: your 180k ltbcoin are worth about 0.02 bitcoin by my estimation

18:39:49 sjsqd: because I made some posts saying the website wasn't adequate in certain terms

18:40:04 danielpbarron: that's like what, 6 bucks?

18:40:13 danielpbarron: i wrote 2 paragraphs for qntra and its worth like 15 bucks

18:40:13 sjsqd: danielpbarron: I'm not interested in writing for money anyway

18:40:22 danielpbarron: lolk, then i guess you're in the right place

18:40:59 sjsqd: according to poloniex 180k is about 0.16

18:41:06 sjsqd: where I live I can't buy bitcoins easily

18:41:11 sjsqd: so its nice to have a little coming in from writing

18:41:15 danielpbarron: i checked the actual DEX

18:41:17 sjsqd: I used to blog years and years ago

18:41:17 BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Anyway the qntra thing can probably also help with some background on differences between the Vessenes' foundation and the (dot)foundation

18:41:39 sjsqd: even with hundreds of thousands of page views I only ever made about 70 USD over 2-3 years

18:41:47 danielpbarron: no you didn't

18:41:48 sjsqd: BingoBoingo:thanks I'll have a look on there

18:41:53 danielpbarron: you said you still have your LTBcoin

18:42:01 danielpbarron: that means you still have.. ltbcoin, not dollars

18:42:05 sjsqd: danielpbarron:I was referring to a different blog

18:42:12 sjsqd: pre-bitcoin days (to some extent)

18:42:31 sjsqd: completely separate platform, just was using it as a point of reference

18:43:14 sjsqd: I might look at writing something for qntra

18:43:27 sjsqd: let's talk bitcoin is interesting because there are quite a few podcasts and such

18:44:19 danielpbarron: podcasts are trash

18:44:31 asciilifeform: sjsqd: there are, approximately, two 'bitcoin universes.' the one where scammers and u.s. fed stoolies scratch one another's backs,

18:44:32 pete_dushenski: sjsqd: I might look at writing something for qntra << wot first http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/13/qntra-reaffirms-wot-irc-yeshiva-in-no-way-optional/

18:44:33 assbot: Qntra Reaffirms That The WoT And IRC Yeshiva Are In No Way Optional | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1AJJS49 )

18:44:33 asciilifeform: and this one.

18:44:36 danielpbarron: nothing of value is discussed in a podcast

18:44:47 PeterL: I would much prefer to read an article than to listen to some guy talking

18:44:49 sjsqd: I don't personally listen to them but there are some interesting topics

18:45:00 danielpbarron: no, there really aren't

18:45:07 danielpbarron: that is a common misconception

18:45:20 sjsqd: I understand the idea of bitcoin universes, I didn't get into it to make a quick buck selling for cash or anything

18:45:26 sjsqd: I read about bitcoin a few years back

18:45:32 sjsqd: downloaded the mining software, my ADD kicked in

18:45:42 sjsqd: and I went and played games

18:46:06 sjsqd: but I've read as much as my mind can understand on it (I'm not a coder though)

18:46:15 danielpbarron: !b 4

18:46:16 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2F5VY0V.txt )

18:46:26 sjsqd: and I really like the idea of being able to carry around my money on my phone

18:46:30 sjsqd: or have my passport on my phone

18:46:34 danielpbarron: ack a bashed too soon

18:46:45 sjsqd: and I live in a city where the government evolves quickly

18:46:57 PeterL: lol, bitcoin is not meant to be on a phone

18:47:00 sjsqd: so the likelihood of bitcoin being adopted widely is high (although it hasn't happened just yet)

18:47:16 danielpbarron: what does government have to do with it!?

18:47:20 sjsqd: PeterL:I use my phone, Windows computer and a VPS or two to store my coins

18:47:25 PeterL: read the logs, then you will understand how bitcoin should (and should not) be used

18:47:39 sjsqd: danielpbarron:in this specific locale the government has to allow it because of terrorism and money laundering etc

18:47:50 sjsqd: but it is also a locale where you could pay for a house in cash and no one would ask any questions

18:47:50 danielpbarron: what locale is that? everywhere?

18:47:53 sjsqd: Dubai

18:48:00 PeterL: do you consider your phone a safe place for your money?

18:48:05 sjsqd: camel to computer in 30 years

18:48:25 sjsqd: PeterL depends, I try to be sensible about what I install

18:48:38 danielpbarron: clearly you aren't

18:48:43 danielpbarron: you install malware

18:48:45 pete_dushenski: windows is sensible on what planet ?

18:48:55 PeterL: phones can get lost or stolen, then what?

18:48:56 sjsqd: I need it for work unfortunately

18:49:05 sjsqd: my phone is encrypted

18:49:10 danielpbarron: so... stupid..

18:49:12 sjsqd: and cannot be unlocked without pin code

18:49:16 pete_dushenski: a $100 linux laptop does the trick

18:49:26 sjsqd: all my wallets are locked and require separate passwords to open

18:49:33 sjsqd: a friend of mine had his phone stolen

18:49:34 PeterL: how long would it take an attacker to brute force your pin?

18:49:38 pete_dushenski: of course, your level of security depends on how much you're trying to secure

18:49:55 sjsqd: PeterL it wouldn't matter because all my wallets are locked, no passwords are stored locally

18:49:58 pete_dushenski: but no one wants to be another '4,500 btc hard drive in the landfill' guy

18:50:13 sjsqd: I'm looking at upgrading to a phone with a fingerprint scanner

18:50:21 sjsqd: or moving to the Mozilla phone or something

18:50:23 *: danielpbarron stabs sjsqd

18:50:24 PeterL: pete_dushenski: paper backups are a good idea?

18:50:39 mike_c: easy dpb :) everybody starts somewhere.

18:50:44 sjsqd: pete_dushenski:yes for long term usage, no one is going to pull out a fully fledged laptop to pay for their groceries

18:50:50 pete_dushenski: sjsqd: biometric: http://www.contravex.com/2014/09/27/on-the-stupidity-of-biometric-security-for-smartphones-and-smartwatches/

18:50:51 assbot: On The Stupidity Of Biometric Security for Smartphones and Smartwatches | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLC25j )

18:51:03 PeterL: why do you think you need bitcoin for groceries?

18:51:05 pete_dushenski: PeterL: i'd say so

18:51:12 sjsqd: PeterL:I enjoy eating

18:51:30 PeterL: convert btc -> local cash -> food

18:51:38 asciilifeform: sjsqd: in dubai, famously, there are 'gold atm' - where you run a card and get 100g bricks out. but do you pay for food with these ?

18:51:41 pete_dushenski: sjsqd: just because you like to eat, doesn't mean you should steal food

18:51:59 asciilifeform: !up sjsqd

18:52:05 sjsqd: asciilifeform:haha yes there are 2-3 of them, no I don't own any gold

18:52:20 asciilifeform: sjsqd: but if you did - would you think of paying for groceries with it ?

18:52:21 sjsqd: pete_dushenski:how is it stealing if the vendor eventually accepts bitcoin?

18:52:34 sjsqd: asciilifeform:no I'm very sceptical of gold for a number of reasons

18:52:48 sjsqd: I personally believe that the entire gold/silver/etc markets are manipulated like crazy

18:53:26 sjsqd: and I've seen firsthand how depending upon culture people will dump their life savings into buying some gold

18:53:35 sjsqd: when they get married or as an investment

18:53:40 sjsqd: and then it sits in a cupboard

18:53:42 asciilifeform: and this is the only reason you wouldn't want to pay in a restaurant with gold?

18:53:47 pete_dushenski: sjsqd: it's more along the lines of, just because you like to do something, doesn't mean than a particular avenue of approach is appropriate

18:53:50 sjsqd: its inconvenient obviously

18:53:52 asciilifeform: would you want to pay with diamonds? plutonium? rembrandts ?

18:54:07 sjsqd: asciilifeform:that's why I want to pay with bitcoin or something similar

18:54:08 asciilifeform: for a meal

18:54:18 sjsqd: I only ever pay with cash or my card

18:54:32 sjsqd: and my card has been cloned once, and I've had tons of issues with my bank

18:54:37 asciilifeform: sjsqd: try to understand why bitcoin is more analogous to diamonds or rembrandts than to the national currency you grew up with

18:54:46 asciilifeform: even though surface appearances may deceive

18:54:50 sjsqd: I hate operating hours of banks (even though you can access full bank services till like 10PM at nighttime here)

18:54:58 asciilifeform: and idiots are spending their coin as if it were toilet paper

18:55:19 sjsqd: asciilifeform:yes I kind of understand that bitcoin is more of a long term cryptocurrency (my view anyway) than a day-to-day currency for a number of reasons

18:55:23 PeterL: save in btc, spend dollars

18:55:47 sjsqd: PeterL:there is almost nowhere to even spend it here (beyond paying web hosting bills etc) so I am pretty much saving it right now

18:56:09 asciilifeform: sjsqd: this is actually good fortune, that you've nowhere to blow it just yet

18:56:24 sjsqd: the local currency here hasn't ever really fluctuated

18:56:28 sjsqd: it is permanently tied to the USD

18:56:35 sjsqd: 3.68 AED - 1 USD

18:56:43 sjsqd: the same rating for something like 2 decades

18:56:45 asciilifeform: sjsqd: once you understand the above, it will never occur to you to carry bitcoin on your person in the street, or spend it in a restaurant

18:56:47 PeterL: and you don't see being tied to usd as a problem?

18:56:50 sjsqd: fuel price rarely changes

18:57:06 sjsqd: PeterL:I obviously do, but have little choice in the matter

18:57:27 PeterL: save in bitcoin, then you don't have to be tied to usd

18:57:46 sjsqd: I'm not wealthy (at all) so its more an incapability of keeping more bitcoin at the moment

18:58:12 sjsqd: asciilifeform:I haven't really spent any, only to show friends how it works

18:58:27 sjsqd: On a recent flight I used the plane's WiFi which cost like 1 USD

18:58:40 sjsqd: and managed to teach a friend in pakistan as well as a friend in Dubai how to set up a wallet on their phone

18:58:46 sjsqd: and sent money from 37,000 feet

18:59:03 sjsqd: obviously sent them some dust just to show them how it works

18:59:22 sjsqd: but beyond having to scrape into my savings to pay for a VPS here or there I actually don't have any way to spend it here yet

18:59:34 sjsqd: and I don't carry any worthwhile amount on my phone

18:59:35 danielpbarron: you should better teach them how to run a full node

18:59:59 sjsqd: danielpbarron:that depends on people's technical ability though

19:00:01 danielpbarron: the whole "crypto on your phone" thing is more of a hinderance than a help

19:00:30 sjsqd: danielpbarron:because it doesn't contribute network resources?

19:00:35 danielpbarron: they need to refine technical ability then; don't give them fire without teaching fire safety

19:01:13 lobbes: 'crypto on phone' defeats the purpose of bitcoin

19:01:24 lobbes: which is a secure store of value

19:01:43 lobbes: that only you can access (if you know what you are doing)

19:02:03 sjsqd: danielpbarron:as much as I understand what you're saying its difficult to explain to people the fire safety aspect

19:02:07 sjsqd: Ubuntu is fairly easy

19:02:16 danielpbarron: so is a noose

19:02:18 sjsqd: but is a long way from any sort of plug and play operation

19:02:23 danielpbarron: just slip it over head

19:02:45 sjsqd: unless people understand how to compile software its too difficult

19:03:05 danielpbarron: understanding these things is like understanding how to ride a horse in the 1800s

19:03:17 danielpbarron: if you don't know how, you are practically illiterate

19:03:23 sjsqd: here there are interesting applications of bitcoin besides paying for things with phones

19:03:30 sjsqd: money remittance specifically

19:03:41 sjsqd: 90% of the population are foreign

19:03:53 sjsqd: and send a shit ton of money through methods like western union or their banks

19:03:56 danielpbarron: paying for things with phones is NOT an application of bitcoin!

19:04:22 danielpbarron: you have apple pay and paypal and whatever app of choice for that

19:04:29 sjsqd: do you think there is an altcoin more suited for that?

19:04:37 danielpbarron: no

19:04:41 sjsqd: I would never, ever personally use anything branded by Apple in a million years

19:04:53 danielpbarron: but you use windows..

19:04:55 sjsqd: I don't care if its a lifeboat on the titanic

19:05:13 sjsqd: danielpbarron:mainly because Adobe won't release their software on Linux just yet

19:05:33 sjsqd: Windows is kind of a necessary evil if you want to play modern video games or use 'creative' software

19:05:35 danielpbarron: you won't use apple to literally save your life but you'll use windows to save your job.. ok..

19:05:39 sjsqd: my opinion anyway

19:05:53 sjsqd: I do some photography work so using Adobe is pretty much mandated

19:05:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43100 @ 0.00038453 = 16.5732 BTC [-]

19:06:04 sjsqd: Unless you want to deal with the limitations of GIMP

19:06:20 sjsqd: or deal with Apple's Aperture software

19:06:33 sjsqd: I understand open source could probably do a better job

19:06:40 sjsqd: but we haven't quite reached that point yet

19:06:53 sjsqd: having said that, my disdain for Adobe is growing on a daily basis

19:07:01 danielpbarron: that doesn't excuse you using bitcoin on your windows computer

19:07:17 sjsqd: tbh, if I had the choice I'd have a separate computer for linux and a separate computer for windows

19:07:24 danielpbarron: you do!

19:07:31 danielpbarron: my laptop cost 250 bucks on ebay

19:07:41 sjsqd: I have a laptop and I am moving *towards* that

19:07:45 danielpbarron: and even that is a bit pricy -- i picked one with a fast GPU

19:07:57 sjsqd: but at the moment I have a family member in intensive care unit

19:08:04 sjsqd: and I'm writing articles about the bitcoin foundation

19:08:23 sjsqd: as well as waiting for legalization of my residency status (its been 3 years of not being a resident so far)

19:08:29 sjsqd: so its kinda taken a back seat (:

19:08:52 sjsqd: I will be moving all my financial things onto Ubuntu or something similar fairly soon though

19:09:00 danielpbarron: ubuntu is not recommended

19:09:04 sjsqd: debian?

19:09:08 danielpbarron: maybe

19:09:14 sjsqd: jeez

19:09:17 sjsqd: debian is a challenge

19:09:21 danielpbarron: don't use gnome if so

19:09:27 danielpbarron: lol debian is easy

19:09:29 sjsqd: I've run a few debian VPS servers before

19:09:39 sjsqd: its all about balancing convenience vs security I suppose

19:09:51 sjsqd: screen. I hate screen.

19:10:03 sjsqd: its great functionally but it confuses the hell out of me

19:10:29 danielpbarron: you do realize debian can have a desktop environment, right?

19:10:32 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you hate podcasts, but do you like radio at all?

19:10:34 sjsqd: the biggest thing I've noticed about computer security is that its almost impossible to get decent biometric security

19:10:38 danielpbarron: thestringpuller, not really

19:10:44 sjsqd: danielpbarron:yeah I tried it once on a VPS but it didn't end well

19:10:57 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: curious to the reason you dislike the medium?

19:11:07 jurov: sjsqd: biometric is overrated

19:11:23 danielpbarron: thestringpuller, if there is something worth discussing, just write a blog post

19:11:26 sjsqd: the problem I have with debian is that unless you run some specific version (I usually run the latest version) most of the documentation on the internet is kinda only 75% there

19:11:36 sjsqd: and unless you're familiar with how to compile etc it gets pretty confusing quickly

19:11:38 thestringpuller: jurov: i kno rite. so not only will someone kidnap me, they'll cut off or extract appendages to unlock my stuff...

19:12:03 danielpbarron: talking free-form into a mic is for people not smart enough to write down what they mean in a concise manner

19:12:30 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: ah. but what about say, Gang Busters? Or rehearsed stuff. Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast?

19:12:36 danielpbarron: sjsqd, not that i'm recommmending debian, but it uses a package manager that downloads binaries, not source

19:12:54 sjsqd: danielpbarron:to be fair when it comes to interviews I'd rather hear the full conversation rather than what someone else has cut up from the discussion

19:12:59 danielpbarron: i would recommend gentoo over debian

19:13:14 sjsqd: danielpbarron:yeah apt-get is easy enough to use, but when you need to install a custom altcoin wallet for instance

19:13:27 sjsqd: that is when I get stumped

19:13:29 danielpbarron: well don't do that

19:13:40 sjsqd: although I did manage to compile a few wallets on Ubuntu successfully

19:14:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00038453 = 7.1715 BTC [-]

19:14:11 sjsqd: danielpbarron:when I get the time I will probably get a harddrive, install a barebones Debian installation on different partitions for each altcoin

19:14:15 sjsqd: so they are completely separete

19:14:19 sjsqd: seperate

19:14:23 danielpbarron: thestringpuller, sure I wouldn't mind someone reading something that had already been written down; that's more like an audio book than a podcast

19:14:31 sjsqd: indeed, separate

19:14:41 danielpbarron: sjsqd, save yourself the trouble and don't install any altcoins

19:15:15 sjsqd: danielpbarron:then how am I going to walk around with my augmented vision paying for things in 20 years time if bitcoin isn't the ideal cryptocurrency?

19:15:28 danielpbarron: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ So for the benefit of all the derps derping about "cryptocurrencies" : there is no such thing. There's Bitcoin and that's it, because there can only be one.

19:15:29 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/17RjJtN )

19:15:55 lobbes: sjsqd: what others have said: save in bitcoin, spend in (local currency)

19:16:30 sjsqd: for now that is how I'm operating (especially given no one accepts bitcoin here except like 1 pizza restaurant)

19:16:48 sjsqd: but in the future if I can receive 100% of my pay via cryptocurrency I will

19:17:01 sjsqd: I personally have little interest in cash

19:17:04 danielpbarron: via bitcoin*

19:17:14 sjsqd: on the topic of altcoins

19:17:22 thestringpuller: lobbes: i wouldn't save in bicoin during a bubble

19:17:24 sjsqd: I do see that many of them have ended up as scams and so on

19:17:29 danielpbarron: on the topic of altcoins, they are all scams -- avoid them

19:17:36 sjsqd: but there are a few that have been ok so far

19:17:41 sjsqd: DNOTES is quite interesting

19:17:51 sjsqd: they've put together the first long term savings plan

19:18:04 sjsqd: I have no doubt it is manipulated via bots

19:18:07 danielpbarron: that doesn't make sense

19:18:08 sjsqd: but then again, what isn't nowadays?

19:18:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12838 @ 0.00037468 = 4.8101 BTC [-]

19:18:37 sjsqd: Well that is what the limitation (in my eyes) is of most altcoins and bitcoin itself

19:18:42 sjsqd: no communication and no marketing

19:18:52 sjsqd: unless you want to dig through 2000 page threads on bitcointalk

19:18:58 sjsqd: stay on IRC 24/7

19:19:03 sjsqd: or use reddit 24/7

19:19:07 danielpbarron: yes! stay on irc 24/7!

19:19:07 thestringpuller: sjsqd: they make logs for a reason...

19:19:28 danielpbarron: forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions

19:19:31 sjsqd: thestringpuller:yes but most people outside of extreme enthusiasts are not going to look through logs

19:19:40 sjsqd: even then

19:19:41 lobbes: forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions << yes

19:19:41 danielpbarron: so? screw them.

19:19:49 PeterL: focus on the log for this chan, yes, that is how you will learn

19:19:51 asciilifeform: sjsqd: what do you need the remaining people for ?

19:20:06 thestringpuller: sjsqd: this is akin to someone pretending to be involved in history and but didn't read any history books.

19:20:19 thestringpuller: sjsqd: this doesn't work.

19:20:20 danielpbarron: What did Noah do when nobody else would get on the Ark? He.. GOT ON THE ARK.

19:20:21 sjsqd: except a history book is just a summary of events in most cases

19:20:27 sjsqd: even if its provides sources, its a summary

19:20:37 jurov: sjsqd if someone takes an effort to do a marketing toward you, they're after your money or soul

19:20:42 jurov: get used to it

19:20:47 sjsqd: to find out what is happening with bitcoin or xyz altcoin it isn't important to read through thousands of pages

19:20:52 sjsqd: jurov:wouldn't surprise me

19:21:05 sjsqd: I did save some money a few years back in a bonds thing backed by the government

19:21:07 thestringpuller: sjsqd: you should probably read some huxely with the logs.

19:21:11 sjsqd: a decent whack of money

19:21:19 sjsqd: sat there for an entire year

19:21:24 sjsqd: and I got 50 USD in interest

19:21:36 sjsqd: not worth it at all

19:21:45 sjsqd: all my bank accounts get chewed out the ass with fees and such

19:21:51 PeterL: sjsqd: important stuff shows up on qntra.net if you don't want to wade through the logs

19:22:09 sjsqd: PeterL:yes I will be adding it to my reading list

19:22:42 danielpbarron: i cashed out some bonds that my grandma got me when i was born; did the math and realized it should have been worth many ounces of gold instead of a measly 1k or whatever it matured to

19:23:11 jurov: !up sjsqd

19:23:24 PeterL: that inflation will kill you on long-term investing

19:23:54 danielpbarron: best gift for a baby? golden pacifier or something

19:23:54 sjsqd: I'm not even that familiar with how traditional currency or banking works

19:24:02 PeterL: sjsqd, you should get in the wot too

19:24:03 sjsqd: but in terms of whether I trust a computer or a human more

19:24:08 sjsqd: I trust a computer

19:24:26 sjsqd: every time I have an issue with a bank it requires dealing with 20 humans

19:24:30 danielpbarron: unfortunately computers are made by humans..

19:24:38 sjsqd: and I'm pretty sure their jobs are going to disappear within a few years

19:24:51 sjsqd: If I want to use my debit card from another country here

19:24:58 sjsqd: I had to try 5 different ATM machines the other day

19:25:07 sjsqd: "DO NOT HONOR"

19:25:15 sjsqd: miraculously it works on a different machine though

19:25:17 danielpbarron: think of FIAT like illegal drugs and you'll have an easier time

19:25:29 sjsqd: not only that

19:25:37 sjsqd: I'm paying like 20 USD just to withdraw cash

19:25:42 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: can you elaborate?

19:25:45 sjsqd: so it *should* work unless the internet is down

19:26:01 sjsqd: I went on a work trip to lebanon once, tried to use my ATM card twice and it lagged out

19:26:08 sjsqd: of course I didn't get any cash

19:26:12 danielpbarron: if you want just a 20-bag, it costs a much higher premium

19:26:18 danielpbarron: than if you bought a whole ounce

19:26:21 sjsqd: but the bank took my money anyway (I got it back after filing forms etc)

19:27:00 sjsqd: I do get the hesitation towards altcoins

19:27:17 danielpbarron: you should better keep savings in bitcoin, and find local street dealers to sell you FIAT as needed

19:27:18 sjsqd: but I do think that at least 2-3 of them will shine above the rest

19:27:42 sjsqd: danielpbarron: there are only a few BTC sellers here so its economically unfeasible to use bitcoin like that yet

19:27:55 sjsqd: I should probably note that I only just moved back here anyway

19:27:59 sjsqd: so I'm not 'set up' just yet

19:28:00 danielpbarron: a few is all it takes to keep it competative, no?

19:28:13 danielpbarron: buy a months worth at a time

19:28:19 sjsqd: that and its a free market

19:28:23 danielpbarron: this ties into the "don't buy groceries with bitcoin" thing

19:28:39 sjsqd: danielpbarron:I wouldn't buy them just yet because cash still works just as well

19:28:41 danielpbarron: buy a months worth of FIAT with bitcoin, and use that to buy groceries

19:28:45 sjsqd: but potentially in 5 years time

19:28:51 sjsqd: if bitcoin or similar is stable enough\

19:28:57 sjsqd: I would use it 100%

19:29:05 danielpbarron: well you can't bring your cash across borders

19:29:12 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i see what you mean now. re-up on fiat with your bitcoin.

19:29:15 sjsqd: exactly

19:29:21 thestringpuller: now is the best time to do it cause there is not a lot of volatility

19:29:22 sjsqd: and I got permanently banned from using paypal for life too

19:29:43 sjsqd: after several thousand USD worth of transactions and 0 complaints

19:30:09 sjsqd: I used one of those bitcoin exchanges recently

19:30:18 sjsqd: and added all my bank accounts (I have 3 in 3 different countries)

19:30:29 sjsqd: and thought "oh wow this is cool I can now manage all my money from one place sort of"

19:30:47 sjsqd: (keep in mind the bank accounts were verified via the usual 0.01 transaction shit)

19:30:56 sjsqd: then I get a message asking for a copy of my ID as well as a video interview

19:31:12 sjsqd: because I tried to buy $50 USD worth of bitcoin

19:31:16 danielpbarron: kinda the point of why bitcoin will eventually win

19:31:22 sjsqd: exactly

19:31:32 sjsqd: although windows isn't the absolute best solution for computer security

19:31:52 sjsqd: I run a software firewall, as well as malware bytes, an adblocker that blocks malicious sites

19:31:55 danielpbarron: it's not even a mediocre solution; it's not even a consideration

19:32:02 sjsqd: and keep my system 100% updated at all times

19:32:11 *: danielpbarron slaps sjsqd around a bit with a large update

19:32:14 sjsqd: and I also barely own any cryptocurrency

19:32:21 sjsqd: so at this point in time

19:32:42 sjsqd: running linux exclusively to keep my internet money safe is too inconvenient to be worth it (although I will be moving to a better system very soon)

19:33:14 danielpbarron: a lot of these things were discussed in here recently; you should definitely get to reading the logs

19:33:21 sjsqd: I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings

19:33:31 sjsqd: I like the idea of my phone being shot at by terrorists

19:33:32 danielpbarron: no no no bad

19:33:34 sjsqd: and just kinda shrugging

19:33:39 sjsqd: and walking into a phone store and purchasing a new phone

19:33:47 danielpbarron: you are really very stupid

19:33:51 sjsqd: logging in and getting access back in 3-5 minutes

19:33:55 danielpbarron: the only redeeming quality about you is that you ended up here somehow

19:34:02 sjsqd: danielpbarron:that would be for day to day usage

19:34:14 thestringpuller: damn I wish I could have bashed that

19:34:17 sjsqd: danielpbarron: haha, its actually been very many years since I spammed an IRC channel

19:35:06 danielpbarron: that is a luxury afforded to you because you are new

19:35:15 jurov: sjsqd you will never be safe if you treat technology as magic

19:35:18 danielpbarron: now your task is to read the log for at least 6 months

19:35:32 jurov: "just throw this spell to it"

19:35:36 ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation? << no.

19:35:59 sjsqd: ben_vulpes:noted. I had taken that title from what appears to be an unrelated bitcointalk thread.

19:36:13 ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates << the goal of your articles is to apparently rack up pageviews.

19:36:24 ben_vulpes: you yourself may ascertain whatever you may ascertain.

19:36:25 sjsqd: I will definitely write about this bitcoin foundation in my articles at some point

19:36:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16019 @ 0.000375 = 6.0071 BTC [+] {2}

19:36:48 ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph << no, we're the fundation!

19:37:07 sjsqd: ben_vulpes:I'm not motivated by money, it is just nice to be able to write something and get at least a little appreciation for it

19:37:20 sjsqd: all I do is tweet the link to the article

19:37:20 ben_vulpes: look into qntra.net

19:37:30 sjsqd: and post it onto /bitcoin/ subreddit

19:37:38 jurov: sjsqd it depends whose appreciation you want

19:37:49 ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware << so how would you know if things are working as expected?

19:37:51 danielpbarron: yeah, prepare to be hated and banned

19:37:58 jurov: those stupider than you or those more intellinget than you?

19:38:13 sjsqd: I don't spam my article URLs or anything like that (I provided it here because it was relevant to show what I was writing)

19:38:37 sjsqd: I don't think anyone has to read my articles or consider my viewpoint, its just my way of writing about the foundation

19:38:54 ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> I understand the idea of bitcoin universes << what you don't seem to understand is that there are separate WoTs in action.

19:39:06 sjsqd: as there are many issues with the foundation (andresen edition) I was invited to post on the let's talk bitcoin website

19:39:20 sjsqd: so that is purely the reason I ended up writing

19:39:44 lobbes: <sjsqd> I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings << Oh god no

19:39:49 sjsqd: for this series of articles I will probably keep them on let's talk bitcoin, but for future articles or if I come up with anything else to write at the same time I might consider qntra.net

19:40:11 danielpbarron: you don't consider qntra; qntra considers you.

19:40:23 sjsqd: danielpbarron:then I would do my best to be considered.

19:40:42 sjsqd: Please understand that I've spent many years of my life writing about issues such as internet censorship and the like

19:40:57 sjsqd: so when a platform exists that can at least reward you a little

19:41:12 sjsqd: you may not be that cynical

19:41:19 mats: nobody cares

19:41:24 sjsqd: (:

19:41:32 mats: kill yourself

19:41:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00037468 = 3.6719 BTC [-]

19:42:41 ben_vulpes: !down sjsqd

19:42:59 PeterL: mats: kill yourself << a bit harsh?

19:43:17 pete_dushenski: now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/

19:43:18 assbot: Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17RoW4G )

19:43:46 pete_dushenski: ^new record for longest article

19:44:02 pete_dushenski: i hadn't quite appreciated the size of the undertaking when i started

19:44:15 pete_dushenski: good practise in any event

19:45:00 PeterL: pete_dushenski: good practise in any event << darn canadian spelling looks odd

19:45:38 pete_dushenski: PeterL: lol 'tis british spelling, good sir

19:46:43 BingoBoingo: !up sjsqd

19:46:58 BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Read the logs a while and come back later

19:47:34 BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Try to understand why the second (dot)foundation was discovered necessary

19:48:12 sjsqd: Yes I will. I can already see part of the reasoning when it comes to transparency.

19:49:45 BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Just don't burn too much time on conversation here before you get to understanding a large part of the *why* the (dot)foundation does things as peculiarly as they do. A good amount of history there.

19:49:56 pete_dushenski: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041083 << impressive. brings to mind 'spruce goose'

19:49:56 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 06:18:52; decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position

19:50:18 sjsqd: BingoBoingo:sure.

19:51:11 sjsqd: afk.

19:51:29 pete_dushenski: http://www.diseno-art.com/images_7/hughes-h-4-spruce-goose-lar.jpg << nearly twice the length of 737-800, all wood

19:51:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIrQVw )

19:52:44 ben_vulpes: sjsqd: also, don't poison the well against yourself.

19:53:28 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/wiretapped/status/573172370141253632

19:53:30 assbot: I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T

19:54:03 PeterL: other people realizing the dangers of dependencies?

19:54:42 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well what follows is "#PSA: using @golang's "go get" on conference wifi is equivalent to running a passwordless telnet server on your laptop. srs shame on go devs"

19:56:49 PeterL: does Eulora have an official website?

19:56:59 thestringpuller: PeterL: no.

19:57:05 thestringpuller: someone maintains eulorum.org

19:57:12 PeterL: aha, thanks

19:57:15 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Kid's just been hit with the discovery he's got a year of learning and unlearning to get to zero. Just maybe this one gets there.

19:59:01 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: not everyone can make the journey tho.

20:00:08 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Kid's not hopeless though. He was luck enough to make it in the place where he could ask questions and people were polite enough to point him where to start the reading. Rest is on him.

20:01:07 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: optimistic BingoBoingo is best BingoBoingo

20:01:31 asciilifeform: golang << ahahaha.

20:01:51 asciilifeform: how many of these do we need before we can shoot it in the head and forget ?

20:01:56 PeterL: asciilifeform: you don't like golang?

20:02:02 asciilifeform: PeterL: guess.

20:02:15 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what is rule #1 of the undead?

20:03:19 asciilifeform: PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979697 << see old thread

20:03:19 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 23:44:58; *: asciilifeform was simply floored with mindfuck that anyone would choose google's turdlang for a piece of critical infrastructure, and could not resist ringing the bell

20:03:35 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'scatter the pieces'

20:07:19 *: jurov thought of rule 34

20:07:53 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: so brought up ADA at work, and coworker started having Vietnam-esque flashbacks from school. Is this normal behavior?

20:08:01 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: absolutely

20:08:07 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try 'scheme' on him

20:08:13 asciilifeform: never fails to bring back 'vietnam'

20:08:32 PeterL: and this is what you want people to use?

20:08:39 thestringpuller: this compels me to learn the language more.

20:09:35 asciilifeform: PeterL: life-critical embedded systems must be written in a typesafe, bound-safe standardized language with hard-real time run (that means no garbage collection) and static memory alloc.

20:09:47 asciilifeform: PeterL: there is precisely one such language in existence.

20:09:53 BingoBoingo: !up qntranet

20:09:58 BingoBoingo: Hello visitor

20:10:09 asciilifeform: PeterL: it's ugly as sin, and originally usg-promulgated, but that doesn't change the facts.

20:10:26 PeterL: could we make a prettier version?

20:10:40 asciilifeform: PeterL: sure, go make. we'll check again in 50 yrs.

20:10:59 PeterL: ok, I'll get right on that

20:11:02 asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts

20:11:16 PeterL: what part do you find ugly?

20:11:19 asciilifeform: 'it's not sexy. whaddayamean i have to specify thing'

20:11:21 BingoBoingo: !b 7

20:11:21 assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1W3HXTC.txt )

20:11:29 asciilifeform: PeterL: the pascal syntax mostly

20:11:40 asciilifeform: but even it contributes to the actual purpose of the thing.

20:12:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037468 = 1.48 BTC [-]

20:12:07 asciilifeform: which is safety and nonambiguity at any cost.

20:12:30 PeterL: in my initial introduction to ada, it seems verbose, with extra words hanging around where a symbol could work just fine

20:12:42 asciilifeform: that's just about everybody's first impression

20:12:52 asciilifeform: then you actually read a book and try to think of which 'verbosity' could be cut

20:13:02 asciilifeform: and find that you are actually snipping off a living organ and not dead weight.

20:13:24 asciilifeform: there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you

20:13:26 jurov: http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs/ << some samples

20:13:27 assbot: Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIwYJr )

20:13:35 asciilifeform: it's numbered like a bible - for folks to quote chapter & verse.

20:13:36 PeterL: well, it has the same named closing tags like you complain about in html (begin thing ... end thing)

20:14:04 asciilifeform: PeterL: has many things that feel 'heavy'

20:14:18 asciilifeform: but the result adds up to the fact that there will never, ever be an 'underhanded ada contest'

20:14:56 PeterL: programs should be boringly obvious what they are doing?

20:15:01 asciilifeform: precisely.

20:15:14 kakobrekla: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/bank_of_canada_urges_star_trek_fans_to_stop_spocking_their_fivers

20:15:14 assbot: Bank of Canada urges ‘Star Trek’ fans to stop ‘Spocking’ their fivers | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxgjm )

20:16:33 pete_dushenski: lmao!

20:18:20 pete_dushenski: spocking "may interfere with the security features and reduces its lifespan."

20:18:53 pete_dushenski: the lifespan of the polymer bills is already mediocre

20:19:13 pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold

20:19:18 pete_dushenski: also, melt on car dash

20:19:39 pete_dushenski: not sure why cash would be on car dash, but hey

20:20:03 jurov: bundle ready for tickets

20:20:42 PeterL: pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold << the dangers of living in a frozen wasteland

20:21:28 pete_dushenski: !up airgapped

20:21:43 pete_dushenski: PeterL: to say nothing of the bears !

20:21:54 lobbes: So one defines their own data types in ADA? I'm not sure why I find that interesting

20:22:42 pete_dushenski: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/vintage_purses_with_bold_feminist_slogans << what do you even say to a girl who sports a purse that says 'choice' or 'my body my business' ?

20:22:42 assbot: Vintage purses with bold feminist slogans | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1M7KgC5 )

20:24:56 danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, "how much do you charge?"

20:26:13 pete_dushenski: this could be a fun caption contest

20:26:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00037468 = 3.7468 BTC [-]

20:26:54 pete_dushenski: ima header. cheers!

20:47:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00037468 = 2.7726 BTC [-]

21:05:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00037468 = 1.6299 BTC [-]

21:06:24 mats: dow down 100 points huhu

21:11:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00037644 = 4.4043 BTC [+]

21:14:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037644 = 1.4869 BTC [+]

21:15:54 bitstein: This is pretty lulzy: https://github.com/jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx

21:15:55 assbot: jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FaSe9C )

21:51:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.0003725 = 6.8168 BTC [-]

22:25:13 BingoBoingo: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150304092744

22:25:14 assbot: LibreSSL 2.1.4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1zL8JVk )

22:31:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00037051 = 8.3365 BTC [-]

22:42:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00037281 = 2.2741 BTC [+] {2}

22:42:39 mircea_popescu: cazalla i had not no

22:44:53 mircea_popescu: Dear Customer,

22:44:54 mircea_popescu: We detected irregular card activity on your American Express Check Card on 4 March,

22:44:54 mircea_popescu: 2015. As the Primary Contact, you must verify your credit card activity before you can

22:44:54 mircea_popescu: continue using your card, and upon verification, we will remove any restrictions

22:44:54 mircea_popescu: placed on your card.

22:45:02 mircea_popescu: dude, the fucking notion that this shit sounds credible.

22:47:07 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly,

22:47:07 mircea_popescu: Theodore Sturgeon, respected creative and prolific science fiction author, shed the following offhand remark which instantly codified as Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is shit." One might visit a university library and walk through Women's Studies or hyphenated-American literature areas and wonder where Sturgeon's 10% is cloistered. Why pay parking fees? The 90% will come knocking at your door, then break it down d

22:47:07 mircea_popescu: emanding entry.

22:47:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11552 @ 0.00037467 = 4.3282 BTC [+] {2}

22:50:31 asciilifeform: sumbody's been reading al

22:50:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00037212 = 7.2191 BTC [-] {2}

22:51:28 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu appears to get exactly the same spam as my spam-magnet, turd for turd

22:52:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure it's all the same. but the point being... this works ?

22:52:10 mircea_popescu: why. how.

22:52:15 asciilifeform: cargo cult

22:52:19 asciilifeform: quite likely it never once worked.

22:52:43 asciilifeform: or, to the spamz0r's great misfortune - exactly once.

22:52:56 asciilifeform: resulting in lifetime cargoaddiction

22:53:23 mircea_popescu: heh

22:53:46 mircea_popescu: sadly i don't have credit cards, as i don't subscribe to open liability deals. but i wonder what the original texts say

22:53:50 mircea_popescu: i imagine this must be cribbed off one

22:54:54 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i don't have credit cards << do you deal with credit at all (i.e. loc)?

22:55:04 mircea_popescu: sure.

22:55:31 thestringpuller: random point: do you think bitcoin will ever be ready for credit?

22:55:38 thestringpuller: given people playing banker in 2012

22:55:50 asciilifeform: iirc wot folks have borrowed from one another before

22:56:25 thestringpuller: ah I guess the liquidity loan from F.MPIF -> S.WOL is similar

22:56:37 thestringpuller: but that was interest free loan no?

22:56:47 asciilifeform: (though it is potentially - and thus, in fact is - an infinite-liability deal; how can you guarantee that you will find the coin to repay)

22:57:00 thestringpuller: ^- exactly

22:57:02 asciilifeform: and what kind of collateral could possibly suffice for btc

22:57:18 thestringpuller: ^- really nothing. definitely not fiat

22:57:20 asciilifeform: (let's say tomorrow's 'day x' and 1 btc > your organs)

22:57:56 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: repay with your life? (not in sense of deadmen don't pay, but contractual servitude)

22:57:58 asciilifeform: so borrowing btc, as shown above, is an uncapped liability

22:58:03 asciilifeform: as is, conversely, lending

22:58:30 asciilifeform: (you lose 1btc because poor schmuck couldn't come up the the ten sets of organs, only one, and you lost most of what you lent him)

22:59:21 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what somebody's worth as a slave is still a finite sum, that isn't especially difficult to come up with (ask the romans)

22:59:23 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: then in that case entire meatspace family is in servitude? wasn't this a thing in history? Can't repay debt so X generation of people are slaves?

22:59:36 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller these things aren't related. bitcoin has been fine for credit for years. idiots aren't or ever will be ready for life.

22:59:50 mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> but that was interest free loan no? << no.

23:00:06 asciilifeform: ^ if above reasoning is flawed, i'd like to learn how

23:00:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by having bitcoin revenue, of course.

23:00:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: problem is that most sources of bitcoin revenue are made of flesh and likely to suffer damage on hypothetical 'day x'

23:00:40 mircea_popescu: this is not true.

23:00:45 asciilifeform: say, you are in the habit of selling $gizmos for btc

23:00:45 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: but what if your revenue stream is no longer a stream but a trickle like man with swollen protrate trying to pee?

23:00:56 mircea_popescu: imaginary sources of bitcoin, pretend "bitcoin businesses" like coinbase or w/e suffer from the problem ytou describe

23:01:07 mircea_popescu: actual bitcoin companies, such as for instance listed on mpex, generally don't have the problem.

23:01:09 asciilifeform: btc heats up, begins to climb, revenue drops..

23:01:31 mircea_popescu: this widely consensusified notion has no met any sort of practical validation so far.

23:01:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mpex, as i understand, consists of ultra-long-haul folks

23:01:43 mircea_popescu: bitbet largest revenue to date is not when btc was 3 bux

23:01:53 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i would say this is true for the zero asset corporations. the non-zero asset corporations seem to be holdling their own, but too early to tell.

23:03:06 mircea_popescu: anywya, it was a point long discussed (among the financial minds) that the nature of btc makes distinction of loans and equity difficult. this was principally centered around the mpoe bonds back when those ran.

23:03:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your explanation essentially that exchange value of btc (in the secular world at large, not speaking of usd in particular) and the btc income of a well-organized business are tightly coupled and the 'rope never breaks' ?

23:03:28 mircea_popescu: buncha threads from 2011/2012 prolly very informative for this topic

23:03:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00037051 = 2.149 BTC [-]

23:03:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the explanation is that "exchange value of btc" is a broadly meaningless notion, and only vaguely useful as a temporary crutch.

23:04:19 mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as the "exchange value of money". money is the one thing without an exchange value, being the exchange value of all things.

23:04:56 asciilifeform: defined strictly for the purpose of this line of inquiry as 'that which might cause btc sphincters to tighten and less to be spent tomorrow'

23:05:15 mircea_popescu: consider the bank loans you money for a mortgage, and tomorrow houses go for 2 dollars each.

23:05:25 mircea_popescu: this sort of counterfactual is a tad nonsensical.

23:05:41 mircea_popescu: but that aside : the terms of the loan specify the recourse, and that's that.

23:05:45 asciilifeform: 'asteroid falls, everyone died'

23:06:13 mircea_popescu: (which is why i won't take a mortgage deal that has recourse past the item bought, nor would any sane businessman. yet usian idiot consumers regularly do, because hey. they've come to expectorate.)

23:06:28 asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu is right re: earlier observation that the mega-bubble didn't seem to kill anyone

23:07:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik 100% of mortgage deals in usa do

23:07:31 mircea_popescu: nope.

23:07:34 mircea_popescu: only chump ones.

23:07:37 asciilifeform: that is, if you default they take money+house

23:07:53 mircea_popescu: you can write whatever contracts you wish.

23:07:54 asciilifeform: and the money consists of what 'is worth now' according to magic arse rng

23:08:02 mircea_popescu: the trick is to not write that many donations while alive

23:08:23 asciilifeform: there are non-chumpatronic mortgages?

23:08:27 mircea_popescu: of course.

23:08:29 asciilifeform: how does that even work

23:08:40 mircea_popescu: limited recourse, or no recourse deals.

23:08:54 asciilifeform: no recourse ?

23:09:07 mircea_popescu: the former are mortgages proper (if the payer goes bust you get the item and that is all) , the latter are commercial paper (if the payer goes bust you suck it).

23:09:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15694 @ 0.00037051 = 5.8148 BTC [-]

23:10:03 asciilifeform: how can it work in the latter case, payer stops paying and keeps the goods ?

23:10:17 mircea_popescu: no recourse real estate deals are in the vast majority of the time attempts by some crown or other to hike the land values.

23:10:17 asciilifeform: or - his creditors

23:10:33 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you've said GNAT is bad, you would not have it with a GNU or in a zoo?

23:10:34 mircea_popescu: like, give a million no recourse loan to the nude girlies show to produce itself on your new fairgrounds

23:10:40 thestringpuller: What ada compiler should I learn on?

23:10:42 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gnat's the only game in town for ada

23:10:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform payer can't keep going and stop paying.

23:10:58 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gnat

23:11:10 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: how to get it on your system is a puzzler that you would have to resolve

23:11:18 thestringpuller: nah already done

23:12:04 asciilifeform: (will point out, for the record, that there are other adas, not descended from gnat - but i will never see them so long as i live, and quite likely neither will you)

23:12:19 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

23:12:21 thestringpuller: lol gtk-ada

23:12:23 gribble: Current Blocks: 346203 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 548 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47829064524.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.45197

23:12:37 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: for folks who need graphical whatevery

23:13:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00037755 = 2.6995 BTC [+]

23:13:29 *: thestringpuller imagines asciilifeform reading graphs as their tabular representation and constructing image in mind

23:14:04 thestringpuller: what was that thing you showed us a while back...ratpoison? Some OS

23:14:55 hanbot: hey asciilifeform! i'm putting a gentoo box together for playing eulora, i want it nice and secure, have zilcho gentoo experience. how wouldja advise me?

23:15:12 thestringpuller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratpoison << ah found it

23:15:28 asciilifeform: hanbot: if it's a reasonably recent gentoo with reasonably recent contents, there is no escape but to read the manual.

23:16:12 asciilifeform: hanbot: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 << 'installation' << assuming you're on an x86 system

23:16:14 assbot: Handbook:AMD64 - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fbigt9 )

23:17:13 hanbot: asciilifeform thanks, will dig in.

23:25:24 mike_c: hanbot: if you install gentoo and eulora from scratch it would be cool to have a step-by-step for http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora#Gentoo

23:25:26 assbot: Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3E4Yd )

23:28:04 hanbot: mike_c noted!

23:36:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00037755 = 5.399 BTC [+]

23:39:51 gabriel_laddel: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/egggun.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/rit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/pringle.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/blood.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/fat.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/olestra.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/petit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/garden.htm

23:39:52 assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HABT )

23:39:53 assbot: INTELLIGENT DYE SIGN ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HBWm )

23:39:54 assbot: THE FREE SAMPLE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDNY )

23:39:55 assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDO4 )

23:39:56 assbot: THE FAT IS IN THE FIRE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HCcX )

23:39:56 assbot: IT'S NOT JUST FOR LUNCH ANY MORE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDOc )

23:39:57 assbot: Petitjean's Quantitative Chirality ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4D )

23:39:58 assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4L )

23:40:33 gabriel_laddel: ^ All Al articles absent from the homepage.

23:40:46 gabriel_laddel: (that can be found in the first 10 pages of google results)

23:41:27 gabriel_laddel: (that are not preliminary drafts of PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY)

23:44:52 gabriel_laddel: oh, and these: https://www.fictionpress.com/u/427609/Uncle-Al

23:44:54 assbot: Uncle Al | FictionPress ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbnmFM )

23:54:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9629 @ 0.00037111 = 3.5734 BTC [-]