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Transcript for 04-03-2016, 924 lines:

00:48:08 mircea_popescu: first!

00:49:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.

00:49:41 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:05:18; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.

00:49:57 mircea_popescu: they had the unmitigated audacity to leave envelopes on the tables, "thanks for halping us continue with our art"

00:50:19 mircea_popescu: i crossed out art and wrote in "you stink" and "get a job", but something tells me they won't take this to heart and execute it exactly

00:50:31 mircea_popescu: just like any other derp/redditard to whom i give key life advice.

00:50:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00056585 = 17.994 BTC [-] {2}

00:51:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!

00:51:15 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:06:28; *: trinque has dated two ballerinas

00:54:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421265 << and what exactly do you want me to do, invade china ?

00:54:13 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:39:39; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.

00:54:23 mircea_popescu: the brits of 1800 are nowhere to be seen.

01:00:40 asciilifeform: keccak?

01:03:03 mircea_popescu: i did not say "the machine gun". i said THE BRITS.

01:03:15 mircea_popescu: people other than orwell, who unlike orwell had sex and mattered in the world.

01:06:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3965 @ 0.00056576 = 2.2432 BTC [-]

01:11:09 mircea_popescu: in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning

01:11:32 mircea_popescu: seriously, not time to make america great again, it never ceased being great, gotta unite it more ? bitch, you lose. you lose so badly... jesus.

01:11:43 mircea_popescu: i don't recall when's the last time a democrat was so culturally inept. maybe carter.

01:19:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421273 << as alf aptly points out, merely not telling people where you sleep does nothing to chillax the band of armed murderers going about the streets.

01:19:55 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 20:15:01; ben_vulpes: while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".

01:21:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421281 << the shit this guy does...

01:21:12 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 20:46:35; asciilifeform: i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist

01:23:50 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning << It was Romney, but really no diff

01:23:57 mircea_popescu: in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth

01:24:07 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wait wut ?

01:24:30 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Romney attacked Trump and offered brokered convention as a solution in his speech

01:24:40 mircea_popescu: nono, that's different

01:24:54 BingoBoingo: i.e. Let Trump win a plurality but not majority of delegates

01:25:00 BingoBoingo: Oh

01:25:30 mircea_popescu: anyway, trump got 7, next ghuy what, 3 ? 4 ? it's all over. i hope to hell he a) fails to get enough delegates and then b) spits in their faces re "brokered convention" and then c) starts his OWN party on pretty much a platform of "fuck the republicans and what are these democrats supposed to even be ?"

01:26:00 mircea_popescu: ideally the republican party should end by being spit in the face by "an outlier" and never recovering from it. best thing for them.

01:26:18 *: mircea_popescu is wishing trump the most mp-esque of fates.

01:27:33 BingoBoingo: Well, the writing's on the wall for that except for the part about such a fate being MP-esque, I mean Donald Trump-Clinton is a serial scammer.

01:27:41 mircea_popescu: sadly.

01:27:49 mircea_popescu: but for a better man, the correct strategy is exactly this.

01:27:56 mircea_popescu: besides, the us is just about ripe for a peron of its own

01:28:05 mircea_popescu: gotta become the argentina it always was, deep down.

01:28:18 mircea_popescu: what's the ivanka v2's name, evita trump what ?

01:29:51 BingoBoingo: This is really the fatal flaw in the whole voting business. All politicans get habituated to lying, scamming, and under delivering but these these outsiders like Donald Trump-Clinton beat them at their game because they practiced those things without the rest of the circle jerk more openly and more criminally.

01:29:57 *: mircea_popescu drinks a toast to the new PJBFRAWTFATDESTB US party.

01:30:01 BingoBoingo: I don't recall

01:30:19 mircea_popescu: (ie, Partido Justicialista Because Fuck Republicans And What The Fuck Are These Democrats Even Supposed To Be)

01:30:57 mircea_popescu: first party in history with a double fuck in the full name.

01:31:17 mircea_popescu: and that only because it abstains from discussing the economy.

01:32:40 *: BingoBoingo would just prefer a more honest wrecker to do the parting

01:33:15 mircea_popescu: and speaking of the us and its future - so macri's been in power for a few weeks now, the peronistas (ie, criminal-socialist party) kept hewing and hawing about how they'll bring the street power to bear. today they finally called out a demonstration, it was on all the news outlet. deeply zoomed in, it looked almost like a thing. but zoomed out, it was ~50 to 100 people in a yellow box "blocking traffic". all the plaza

01:33:15 mircea_popescu: de mayo wide the fuck open, more police than protestors, 50 miles of fence and 300 yards of protestor perimeter.

01:33:44 mircea_popescu: an utter humiliation, i have no idea why the fuck they even did it. but it's quite clear that without the cona house they got ~nothing.

01:35:12 mircea_popescu: so macri's here to stay, and the country's definitely going on sale. staples prices already up ~50 to maybe 100%, salaries frozen, all bureaucrats discussing in hushed tones their fears of which jobs will be cut... it's a pleasure.

01:35:17 mircea_popescu: i hope they all fucking starve.

01:35:25 mircea_popescu: oh wait, they sold the corn earlier. they're definitely starving.

01:36:25 BingoBoingo: lol

01:37:11 *: BingoBoingo wondering if much of the US is even planting corn this year

01:37:44 mircea_popescu: well the us has the advantage that the people contain enough food for ~decade, give or take.

01:37:50 mircea_popescu: they can just redistribute the fat.

01:40:30 mircea_popescu: and besides, since they ended canada's oil boom with their inept russian embargo shenanigans, the great farmland to the north can get back to agriculture. great obama-hruschev common single planning organ success!

01:42:17 BingoBoingo: lol pete_dushenski and nubbins' in two dog land have to dust off their hos

01:42:54 mircea_popescu: actually, for the interested us scholar, the history of the comecom should be read carefully. it's not merely informative, but will be quite predictive.

01:43:08 mircea_popescu: comecon*

01:45:14 asciilifeform: oblig: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581098

01:45:14 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:55:09; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of, in reverse: '...Идет пленум ЦК, Генеральный секретарь читает доклад: Больших успехов достигли хлеборобы Кубанщины, Ставропольщины, Смоленщины, Техасщины, Колорадщины.'

01:45:24 BingoBoingo: Here they pronounce it Comicon

01:45:28 mircea_popescu: lmao

01:45:45 mircea_popescu: check out alf's elephantine memory!

01:46:32 asciilifeform: http://www.cbm.sfks.se/pics/elephant-memory-systems.jpg << who remembers these

01:46:44 *: asciilifeform still has a box full.

01:47:44 asciilifeform: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/401048414225_1.jpg << them.

01:47:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUagFn )

01:48:28 mircea_popescu: ha-ha!

01:50:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420838 << what with the unmitigated audacity of organising "conferences" and announcing "agreements" as if anyone gave the slightest bit of a fuck.

01:50:23 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:18:23; asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.

01:51:00 mircea_popescu: and these imbecile stallmans of a new generation, encouraging this nonsense. pfff.

01:53:39 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421354 << sounds like the band asciilifeform and i got as far away from as possible while still able to gawk at the audience in bsas!

01:53:39 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 00:49:41; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.

01:54:11 mircea_popescu: the audience took me back 20 years. back in mid 90s, there was this bar in cluj, mostly favoured by highschooler chicks that were just mediocre but liked to think themsleves special.

01:54:14 BingoBoingo: More Real America Future: https://archive.is/5NU2l

01:54:20 assbot: Stories from Asian parents ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUaVqu )

01:54:23 ben_vulpes: remember that, asciilifeform ? we had more or less the whole upstairs to ourselves?

01:54:25 mircea_popescu: they went there to overdemonstratively socialise and pretend like they're drunk and please grab my teat.

01:54:31 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha!

01:54:38 mircea_popescu: except these bovines would have counted as lamers in that ~lame set.

01:55:10 ben_vulpes: i do admire the stairs-barely-bolted-to-the-wall argentine asthetic

01:57:20 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: link to clitler speach?

01:58:46 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421377 << today i learn that dirigibilists drink vermouth qua vermouth

01:58:46 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 01:23:57; mircea_popescu: in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth

01:59:09 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes believe it or not i read it in la nacion.

01:59:35 ben_vulpes: i just threw up in my mouth

02:01:00 ben_vulpes: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1875089-hillary-clinton-gano-las-primarias-en-carolina-del-sur-con-casi-el-80-de-los-votos << eso?

02:01:14 mircea_popescu: mno

02:03:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1876161-guerra-declarada-hillary-pasa-al-ataque-y-va-por-trump << aqui

02:03:24 assbot: Guerra declarada: Hillary pasa al ataque y va por Trump - 03.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUbIYm )

02:05:04 mircea_popescu: why does she look so much like a fucking bird anyway.

02:05:23 mircea_popescu: this year in us election, an ogre runt and a quail on lsd.

02:05:36 ben_vulpes: THE ACID TRIP NEVER ENDS

02:08:22 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what is the 'comecon'?

02:08:34 mircea_popescu: derpy soviet take on economy.

02:10:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, did the argentinos hallucinate the story ? never happened ?

02:10:52 ben_vulpes: ask someone who cares

02:11:04 mircea_popescu: was just asking in general :)

02:11:43 mircea_popescu: gotta say i like the language. the derps are fucking useless - saw a fucktard SLEEPING IN THE SHOP today, banned the shop - but check out "envalentonada".

02:11:46 ben_vulpes: look i'm always down to see people humiliate themselves or be humiliated but the acres of derping around before the hammer comes down isn't edging its just fucking boring

02:12:38 mircea_popescu: hm ?

02:12:47 ben_vulpes: the whole electoral farce

02:12:53 ben_vulpes: when it coughs up lols, i'll lol

02:12:55 ben_vulpes: but track it?

02:12:57 ben_vulpes: noty.

02:13:07 mircea_popescu: oh oh. my interest is mostly linguistic.

02:13:37 ben_vulpes: MOOOOOO

02:13:51 mircea_popescu: lol andrew cuomo does impressions now ?

02:14:09 ben_vulpes: cuomoo

02:14:15 mircea_popescu: i thought he was ~headed for jail. except you know, "tough on crime" beeeeeehehehehe towelhead forgot the keys to the toughness vault or something.

02:14:47 mircea_popescu: what's his name, polly-wanna-baccarat or whatever the fuck.

02:14:58 *: BingoBoingo still rather convinced Hillary rodham-clinton and donald trump-clinton are colluding

02:15:33 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incidentally - imagine the fucking ratings once trump turns the white house into a nbc studio

02:15:39 mircea_popescu: "BE A PRESIDENTIAL ASSISTANT!"

02:16:31 mircea_popescu: chinese'd watch that shit.

02:16:31 *: BingoBoingo also kinda thought this just Trump juicing his ratings after NBC canned his struggling show

02:17:14 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA << oblig

02:17:15 assbot: President Camacho's State of the Union - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUd7yc )

02:19:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12349 @ 0.00056751 = 7.0082 BTC [+] {2}

02:19:06 mircea_popescu: anyway, needless to say the argentine press utterly hates trump. "o noes, male with an ego! hilary is for kids and women! NO UNA MENOS!!!1 herpderp"

02:19:49 *: mod6 just caught up on logs

02:20:19 mod6: lol @ PJBFRAWTFATDESTB

02:20:46 mircea_popescu: :p

02:21:03 BingoBoingo: They both have the same clinton ethical disorder

02:23:24 mircea_popescu: ;;ud bennett

02:23:25 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bennett | A bennett is an individual who is known for his skills with females both sexually and relationship wise. A bennett is typically tall with a long bl...

02:23:28 mircea_popescu: so now you know.

02:26:20 cazalla: BingoBoingo, do you vote?

02:26:39 BingoBoingo: Sometimes for sport

02:26:55 cazalla: i'd vote for Trump, just for sport

02:27:29 cazalla: get a job help building that wall as well

02:27:46 mircea_popescu: lol. prolly a pretty good job.

02:28:50 BingoBoingo: Nah, prolly doing my sport voting for rubio or cruz in order to do my part for the brokered convention outcome

02:29:58 mircea_popescu: no love for mr hairday guy ?

02:30:12 cazalla: how was your winter? i just pulled the rest of the tomatoes out this morning, tfw no more summer and winter is coming

02:30:14 asciilifeform: vote for Vermin!11

02:30:46 punkman: http://donaldjdrumpf.com/

02:30:48 assbot: Make Donald Drumpf! ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUesoL )

02:31:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, romanians have been trading votes for years now. go in there with your smartphone, take pic of vote and id card, get 30 lei or w/e

02:31:48 asciilifeform: l0l sounds like a job for a gimp script (tnyscheme!11)

02:31:51 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I refuse to vote for a clinton so no, can't vote for hairday guy

02:32:17 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> vote for Vermin!11 << This general election course of action

02:32:33 asciilifeform: aha.

02:32:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously you could take as many pics as payers. but in spite of the ridoinculousness, the nonsense provably works.

02:33:05 asciilifeform: provably?

02:33:09 asciilifeform: how

02:34:35 mircea_popescu: compare the counties where scheme was implemented (it's always done by the "local barons", not a central thing) with the counties where it isn't.

02:43:20 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/#comment-41310

02:43:22 assbot: The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUfIYQ )

02:43:56 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: pray explain how it works.

02:43:58 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421360 << recently learned that 'freres de lait' shared wet nurse.

02:43:58 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 00:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!

02:44:20 asciilifeform: so you send a privkey. recipient does what?

02:45:21 asciilifeform: now you gotta transact ~twice~

02:45:31 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: user can't send tx because blackholed for using verboten tmsr service, let's say. user exports privkey from wallet, imports to bc.info, sends coins to new wallet and continues on his merry way.

02:45:46 asciilifeform: once to fill up the addr

02:45:59 asciilifeform: and now also he had to empty it.

02:46:29 pete_dushenski: issues may arise if coins are sent to 'wiped' address on throw-away bc.info wallet. thus, my response

02:46:43 asciilifeform: no, think

02:47:32 asciilifeform: say you happened to have addr with x btc just lying around. you pay me by sending its privk.

02:47:48 asciilifeform: now ~i~ want to spend.

02:48:07 asciilifeform: what, i send key again to next dest?!

02:48:34 asciilifeform: creating ~3~ wallets with identical key?!!

02:48:51 pete_dushenski: i must be thick

02:48:56 asciilifeform: and 3 folks who can spend it.

02:49:04 asciilifeform: even by accident

02:49:34 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: think about why we even have bitcoin?

02:49:54 asciilifeform: instead of just saying 'i own this integer'

02:50:08 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420598

02:50:08 assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 22:56:04; pete_dushenski: if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much.

02:50:44 mircea_popescu: take it the other way, pete_dushenski

02:50:54 asciilifeform: do you recall the ancient derpage where folks sold accounts?

02:51:07 asciilifeform: or how mtgox was sold.

02:51:23 mircea_popescu: so you meet a shady guy in a bar, and he shows you an address with 10 btc in it, and gives you the privkey in exchange of taking the lady in the back alley half-n-half.

02:51:32 mircea_popescu: the lady side aside, do you think this is a sensible deal ?

02:51:45 pete_dushenski: no, because he can have copies of privkey

02:51:49 mircea_popescu: so then.

02:52:32 pete_dushenski: but if no more coins are sent to the shared privkey, then all's kosher, neh ?

02:52:42 mircea_popescu: how is it kosher ?

02:53:01 mircea_popescu: it's not kosher, it's a race as to who can spend first, and you're hoping the lady's good enough to keep him busy long enough for you to get to a wifi ?

02:53:07 deedbot-: [fraudsters] MPIF (F.MPIF) February 2016 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-february-2016-statement/

02:53:22 mircea_popescu: which i suppose works ok in this extemporaneous prostitution scenario, but pretty much nowhere else.

02:53:26 pete_dushenski: because it's then a throwaway intermediary. and yes, hoping that bc.info doesn't spend same coins in same 10 minutes is the risk.

02:53:29 asciilifeform: generally, situation where 2+ people each have full control of a prvkey, is a deadly failure

02:53:43 pete_dushenski: it's. 10. minutes.

02:53:44 asciilifeform: like short circuit in electronics.

02:54:05 pete_dushenski: after that, one hopes, no more.

02:54:22 mircea_popescu: well... what happens if the tx is not included in a block ?

02:54:26 pete_dushenski: i'm not advocating regular use of webwallets here

02:54:32 mircea_popescu: or, better yet, broadcast but "not seen", magically ?

02:54:54 mircea_popescu: by "the network", of course.

02:54:54 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what 10min?! whatever kept you from transacting like normal people, will keep you from moving the 'temporary' coinz

02:55:39 punkman: where the hell does bc.info come in and why

02:55:39 pete_dushenski: then bc.info has miners who prioritise their txen ?

02:55:43 asciilifeform: this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!'

02:55:50 pete_dushenski: l0l

02:56:26 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: then user is fucked because he's now shared privkeys and ~still~ has no way of transacting lol

02:56:38 pete_dushenski: punkman: just a place to import privkeys

02:56:56 pete_dushenski: one that seems to get tx included in blocks, i might add

02:57:04 punkman: pete_dushenski: I read the blog post, didn't make sense

02:57:31 pete_dushenski: just my experience

02:57:36 mircea_popescu: basically, the most charitable read of the thing i can come up with is, "if you find your own wallet unable to transact - try move the privkey to a webwallet, maybe it works there".

02:57:44 mircea_popescu: that much... i guess may make sense, maybe.

02:57:54 punkman: sure

02:58:07 punkman: but stuck coinz don't get unstuck because you moved priv keys

02:58:21 mircea_popescu: no, but you can now bitch at vc derps and post on reddit.

02:58:25 asciilifeform: let hitler try spendng for you! ahaha lol

02:58:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somethinglike that. given that his guide announces itself as "opportunistic smalltimer defense", it's not necessarily wrong.

02:58:59 pete_dushenski: punkman: i wouldn't have thought so either

02:59:36 asciilifeform: before long, there will be special magick services that will help you spend...

02:59:37 *: pete_dushenski is nothing if not "opportunistic smalltimer"

02:59:45 asciilifeform: bitpal.

02:59:57 mircea_popescu: bitpal by mital.

03:00:13 asciilifeform: see where the train goes.

03:02:02 punkman: I try to keep in mind: "network might be down for a year, can you live with that"

03:02:55 punkman: is this a bastardized mp quote? can't recall the source

03:03:48 mircea_popescu: i'll gladly take the credit if it saves you the time to search for sauce.

03:04:46 punkman: from the i-don't-even department http://i.imgur.com/k1x1n5b.png

03:04:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUhNEf )

03:06:12 pete_dushenski: also from gur, https://i.imgur.com/NxwksNr.gifv

03:06:17 assbot: There's always that one guy.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUhVnh )

03:06:28 mircea_popescu: is this something by that dank dude ?

03:06:30 pete_dushenski: wait... that's a double post

03:07:05 pete_dushenski: meant to post this https://i.imgur.com/B4n0csF.webm

03:07:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3btQw )

03:08:45 asciilifeform: l0lzy, neutron blackening of optics

03:09:11 punkman: imgur videos are the worst with noscript. I click+delete the flash placeholder, allow the mp4, it reloads, then I allow the webm and maybe it start playing

03:10:43 punkman: !s jl777

03:10:43 assbot: 2 results for 'jl777' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jl777

03:10:51 punkman: (supernet guy)

03:11:53 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> like short circuit in electronics. << For live examples see brainwallets

03:12:18 asciilifeform: brainwallet is an iq test.

03:12:30 asciilifeform: ~the~ iq test.

03:12:33 BingoBoingo: Also tx propagation test

03:12:53 BingoBoingo: Who can spend inputs first when they arrive

03:13:16 asciilifeform: if you have a reasonable brain you can even brainrsakey.

03:13:27 asciilifeform: yes.

03:15:33 BingoBoingo: Oh no, I mean enough people have keys for many brainwallets so anytime they recieve coins it is off to the races for at least tens of scrapers

03:15:48 BingoBoingo: Wait,

03:17:16 asciilifeform: ah you meant idiotwallets

03:17:42 asciilifeform: with keys like sha512('foo').

03:17:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27561 @ 0.00056784 = 15.6502 BTC [+]

03:18:24 BingoBoingo: aha

03:18:44 BingoBoingo: Yes, I mean the actual in the wild phenomenon

03:18:54 punkman: there's a new 8char brainwallet challenge, apparently nobody solved the last one https://keybase.io/warp/warp_1.0.8_SHA256_5111a723fe008dbf628237023e6f2de72c7953f8bb4265d5c16fc9fd79384b7a.html

03:18:57 assbot: WarpWallet - deterministic bitcoin wallet generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3cWGB )

03:23:16 BingoBoingo: Cool Origin Story https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/897336

03:23:18 assbot: Once upon a time... I accidentally killed a deathfat | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3dxbi )

03:26:26 BingoBoingo: !up alnit

03:34:22 BingoBoingo: Deviancy https://i.sli.mg/lCpdtO.png

03:34:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3eLDn )

03:35:42 cazalla: i dunno how you stomach it BingoBoingo, one of your fold mold comments on /r/bitcoin i think it was made me gag

03:35:58 BingoBoingo: lol

03:36:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ~the~ iq test. << "variant thought" and iq are at best orthogonal.

03:36:44 BingoBoingo: This is becoming a problem even for me, did I write that thing I just came across or not

03:37:27 cazalla: doesn't read like previous ones of yours i've read, so i guess no

03:37:31 mircea_popescu: lol first culture problems.

03:49:07 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

03:49:14 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 421.85, vol: 6744.23638592 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.06, vol: 6696.72947 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.83, vol: 15402.83472685 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 428.8068, vol: 56255.23460000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 422.147, vol: 3751.10880038 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.71995, vol: 67.15733005 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

03:49:23 BingoBoingo: ;;more

03:49:23 gribble: 426.601357001

03:51:16 cazalla: http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/04/new-extremism-guidelines-require-schools-to-report-suspect-behaviour straya!

03:51:20 assbot: New extremism guidelines require schools to report suspect behaviour | Australia news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21LA6yV )

03:53:35 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.35570199 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b20

04:03:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28654 @ 0.00056797 = 16.2746 BTC [+] {2}

04:11:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6301 @ 0.00056694 = 3.5723 BTC [-] {3}

04:15:42 *: asciilifeform falling down, will finish broadcast when he wakes up.

04:28:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00056525 = 22.7231 BTC [-]

04:43:00 ben_vulpes: !up felipelalli

04:43:01 felipelalli: ben_vulpes, yes, I have my photo in there.

04:43:35 felipelalli: ben_vulpes, but I didn't understand the relation.

04:44:14 trinque: asciilifeform │ this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!' << bahahaha dear god my sides

04:46:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12185 @ 0.00056826 = 6.9242 BTC [+] {2}

04:58:39 punkman: http://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/computing/it/reports-coming-in-of-mass-us-layoffs-underway-today-at-ibm

04:58:40 assbot: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDCLZs )

05:01:15 punkman: "They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining."

05:10:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38584 @ 0.00056519 = 21.8073 BTC [-] {3}

05:11:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24249 @ 0.00056201 = 13.6282 BTC [-]

05:15:13 punkman: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/48pree/why_there_are_5_months_old_unconfirmed/

05:15:14 assbot: Why there are 5 months old unconfirmed transactions sitting in the mempool? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qp1Iox )

05:18:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40129 @ 0.00056201 = 22.5529 BTC [-] {2}

05:22:47 punkman: !up PaulCapestany

05:31:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00056195 = 9.6655 BTC [-] {2}

05:32:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00056182 = 19.2142 BTC [-] {3}

05:35:27 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.56056253 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b22

06:07:58 punkman: https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tromer/mobilesc/

06:08:00 assbot: ECDSA Key Extraction from Mobile Devices via Nonintrusive Physical Side Channels ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsAR8P )

06:16:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00056166 = 19.967 BTC [-] {2}

06:23:28 TomServo: ;;blocks

06:23:29 gribble: 401082

06:25:12 TomServo: yay! finally a sync'd node.

06:44:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76747 @ 0.00056139 = 43.085 BTC [-] {3}

06:45:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4103 @ 0.00055984 = 2.297 BTC [-]

06:47:50 TomServo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414960 << Any suggested reading on this topic?

06:47:50 assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers

07:03:26 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 45.67770000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b50

07:46:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00056354 = 23.4996 BTC [+] {2}

07:47:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00055983 = 3.9468 BTC [-] {3}

07:49:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14049 @ 0.00056632 = 7.9562 BTC [+] {2}

08:17:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16342 @ 0.00056788 = 9.2803 BTC [+]

08:21:13 danielpbarron: !up Taek

08:46:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00056414 = 26.5146 BTC [-] {5}

09:30:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52550 @ 0.0005666 = 29.7748 BTC [+]

10:22:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3655 @ 0.00056773 = 2.0751 BTC [+]

10:23:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00056307 = 21.0588 BTC [-] {3}

10:31:06 punkman: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-March/012489.html

10:31:07 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] Hardfork to fix difficulty drop algorithm ... ( http://bit.ly/1RsJP5L )

11:19:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9213 @ 0.00056156 = 5.1737 BTC [-]

11:36:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39400 @ 0.00056001 = 22.0644 BTC [-] {4}

12:08:03 mircea_popescu: punkman> "They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining." <<< pretty generous.

12:08:28 mircea_popescu: TomServo> yay! finally a sync'd node. << wd!

12:17:03 mircea_popescu: TomServo> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414960 << Any suggested reading on this topic? << mid 1800s, galveston was the world's cotton center. by the 1900s, dallas had overtaken it as the center of texas. lots of discussion of this change that's emblematic from a more general shift from "midwest = great american desert" to "we built some pumps and whatnot, let's farm and raise cattle" to "holy shit

12:17:03 assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers

12:17:04 mircea_popescu: oil!" to, finally, "flyover country". not entirely sure who'd be the indicated canon on the topic. as everything else to do with culture, starting with the great "american" novel and ending with the great "american" dictionary, the us has failed to produce usable works. maybe one day a gibbon is born in kenya or wherever and writes its history.

12:26:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21196 @ 0.00055945 = 11.8581 BTC [-]

12:39:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80492 @ 0.00055945 = 45.0312 BTC [-]

12:49:58 shinohai: ;;ticker --market all

12:50:04 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 420.2, vol: 6541.50522339 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.957, vol: 7173.25211 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 420.36, vol: 12985.15674317 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.579272, vol: 49212.27850000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.513, vol: 2737.18385922 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.160837, vol: 80.75259039 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

12:51:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00055984 = 21.6658 BTC [+] {2}

12:54:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34705 @ 0.00055945 = 19.4157 BTC [-]

13:05:40 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Portrait of an adult woman - http://fraudsters.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/

13:19:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00055937 = 27.9126 BTC [-] {3}

13:39:18 davout: I started looking into how bitmex's engine actually works, and god, it's an abomination

13:40:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.00055888 = 24.9819 BTC [-] {4}

13:40:20 davout: kindof reads to me like "ohai, we're offering x100 leverage, but because we can't be sure to liquidate positions properly, we spread losses on everyone who actually made a profit"

13:40:28 davout: in other words: "spreading works"

13:42:26 davout: therefore, echo "bitmex" > niggers.txt

13:44:09 mircea_popescu: they published the engine or is this just probing ?

13:44:33 davout: it's their documentation

13:45:02 davout: https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation

13:45:03 assbot: Dynamic Profit Equalisation - BitMEX ... ( http://bit.ly/1QxxIor )

13:45:36 mircea_popescu: heh. also this sounds exactly like icbit / bitfinex. same people ?

13:45:49 davout: i don't think so

13:46:01 mircea_popescu: same language i guess then.

13:46:07 davout: "language"

13:46:10 mircea_popescu: heh.

13:47:06 davout: so basically you can actually use high leverage, except it doesn't quite work so well when you win, because it doesn't work very well when you lose

13:48:44 davout: reddit dude sums it up nicely "Even though every contract has a counterpart, think of whole thing conceptually as being somewhat pooled with no specific counterparty and the winning traders jointly as bagholders of last resort."

13:49:14 davout: Bagholders. Of last resort.

13:49:26 davout: aka the Bitcoin movie

14:12:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00055875 = 4.5818 BTC [-] {2}

14:58:18 thestringpuller: i think icbit got shut down

15:25:17 davout: "A weird exchange nobody really trades on, Orderbook.net, has run into some trouble with the CFTC."

15:25:26 davout: http://www.bitcoinfuturesguide.com/bitcoin-blog/orderbooknet-formerly-icbit-gets-cease-and-desist-notice-from-cftc

15:26:43 thestringpuller: i remember when MP exposed them as a scam way back in 2012

15:30:12 kakobrekla: an i thought tycho (deepbit) retired?

15:31:13 kakobrekla: davout if the fork (say 'classic') happens, is paymium expected to stay on the current blocks ?

15:33:11 davout: kakobrekla: https://twitter.com/davoutplantaire/status/689431734765547520

15:33:58 kakobrekla: you will have two separate trading markets ?

15:35:35 davout: tbh i don't know, what i know is that there won't be any bullshit like "oh btw, withdrawals on chain [A|B] are deprecated"

15:39:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25950 @ 0.00055875 = 14.4996 BTC [-]

15:47:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42008 @ 0.00055883 = 23.4753 BTC [+]

15:49:37 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 33.65869796 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b51

16:02:01 PeterL: With bitbet doublesending the Jeb Bush bet, are they going to have to take out a bridge loan from MPIF again?

16:04:41 PeterL: And is that going to be classified under "advertising expenses" since it got the bitbet name out in a bunch of media?

16:08:08 jurov: i believe it should be budgeted to security or R&D dept... who ever seen marketing monkeys to meddle with technology so

16:09:30 jurov: or actually... as the whole thing was about bitcoin protocol enforcement, law dept would be prolly best choice.

16:11:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7769 @ 0.00056105 = 4.3588 BTC [+] {3}

16:11:58 jurov: *legal dept, i mean

16:12:27 jurov: and there is likely also no-such-dept. involved

16:13:57 danielpbarron: for BingoBoingo >> https://i.imgur.com/CX9sBUAl.jpg << warning : NSFL

16:13:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QqjLux )

16:17:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00056241 = 19.8531 BTC [+] {4}

16:41:20 mircea_popescu: "no such dept" not even a half-bad idea.

16:41:45 mircea_popescu: "we've had some no such expenses this month somehow related to the bitcoin protocol of the future's many advantages which can not be specified for guess why reasons."

16:41:49 mircea_popescu: everyone happy with that ?

16:44:53 mircea_popescu: and in other "woman is a book" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/7316eaa09f84216a8fe356ffba3c9df0/tumblr_mm4rjyzjH81qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

16:44:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nluSKC )

16:47:51 *: asciilifeform awake, cranks out broadcast slowly while on the stake

16:48:10 asciilifeform: meanwhile, a golden oldie, just for mircea_popescu : http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2012/Dec/151

16:48:11 assbot: Bugtraq: GnuPG 1.4.12 and lower - memory access errors and keyring database corruption ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlvtw6 )

16:48:13 thestringpuller: whoa, asciilifeform just dropped some phat rhymes

16:50:02 mircea_popescu: skate/stake/steak/on the take etc bla bla, enough rhymes in there for a full rap album.

16:50:34 mircea_popescu: Alfie Lifeform not a terribru rapper name, either.

16:50:39 asciilifeform: l0l!

16:53:33 mircea_popescu: in other news, according to reddit i am by far the bitcoiner most likely to have a collection of human body parts in my fridge.

16:53:48 mircea_popescu: depending on the exact definition of "human body parts" you use, i will grant that this is actually the case.

16:55:41 asciilifeform: at any rate, i suspect that i found one of the magical orifices the dud keys went in.

16:56:47 asciilifeform: also as i write this, my cellmate/boss is fuzzing gpgtron.

16:57:07 mircea_popescu: lol are you subverting the kolhoz for counter-party activities ?

16:57:21 asciilifeform: how else.

16:57:21 mircea_popescu: you should start wearing round glasses and a pickaxe hole in the temple already.

16:57:38 asciilifeform: prolly been fitted for the hole'n'glasses already.

16:59:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421718 << l0lwut?

16:59:13 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 16:41:20; mircea_popescu: "no such dept" not even a half-bad idea.

16:59:19 shinohai: More for BingoBoingo - a possible front view of what danielpbarron posted earlier: https://i.imgur.com/WELwzH0.jpg

16:59:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlwWm3 )

16:59:23 mircea_popescu: see next line.

16:59:45 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ?

17:00:34 asciilifeform: it'd be a welcome change from the usaschwitz crud

17:01:01 mircea_popescu: see, this is exactly what i'm asking him : if you should be allowed to continue in this childhood delusion :)

17:01:55 asciilifeform: l0l which one

17:01:59 mircea_popescu: shinohai i don't get it, person should go through 1-200ish gallons of water a year, every year. what's the problem there ?

17:02:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that it'd be a change.

17:02:25 asciilifeform: wai wut i thought my delusion was that usg is everywhere

17:02:54 mircea_popescu: you know, if you meet two retarded teenagers cca 2004, it doesn't mean "britni is everywhere".

17:03:08 mircea_popescu: retardation belongs to no-one, even if it is always and perpetually the exact same.

17:03:22 shinohai: I guess the point being she is adamant that fluid is the reason she is fat, and not the 28 BigMacs she consumes for lunch daily.

17:07:43 mircea_popescu: she does look pretty edematous

17:26:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36016 @ 0.00055875 = 20.1239 BTC [-]

17:27:24 asciilifeform: https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/1/18/524 << lulz

17:27:25 assbot: LKML: Jeff King: Re: Don't use PGP/GPG signatures in mail that contains patches ... ( http://bit.ly/1nlDIrO )

17:27:58 asciilifeform: we - in case anybody had any doubts - 'don't exist', never happened...

17:30:16 mircea_popescu: doh.

17:30:32 mircea_popescu: and we can say jack shit about it - because guess what ? phuctor still down.

17:30:44 mircea_popescu: this has been a perfect case of typically lispian self-sabotage, for the record.

17:31:56 asciilifeform: i actually shelved the lisp ver.

17:31:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30699 @ 0.0005617 = 17.2436 BTC [+] {2}

17:31:59 asciilifeform: having realized this.

17:32:40 mircea_popescu: not a comment on the language - a comment on the mentality. "oh this box is not good". fine. "oh this other box is not yet ready". fine. whatever all this may mean in the ideal world of ideals, what it means in practice is that - never happened.

17:32:55 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] The Big Singer - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-big-singer/

17:34:32 mircea_popescu: check out the drinks guy!

17:35:24 danielpbarron: :D

17:35:43 mircea_popescu: you gotta re-doi the overlay on the header tho, i can see the edges and a nose/hairline of a guy in the irght

17:35:44 danielpbarron: more to come in that category!

17:35:55 danielpbarron: heh, ok

17:42:58 danielpbarron: btw, that guy on the right is Birdman of Eulora infamy

17:43:55 danielpbarron: dealing poker at porcfest; that picture was taken in the morning near the end of an all-night game

17:44:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056368 = 8.5116 BTC [+] {2}

17:45:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00056041 = 8.6864 BTC [-] {4}

17:58:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00055862 = 5.7538 BTC [-] {2}

17:58:28 asciilifeform: sooo crying over 'math is hard!111' is hip now ? >> https://medium.com/@fjmubeen/ai-no-longer-understand-my-phd-dissertation-and-what-this-means-for-mathematics-education-1d40708f61c#.492j0fjqn

17:58:30 assbot: I no longer understand my PhD dissertation (and what this means for Mathematics Education) — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1OViU0P )

18:01:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36850 @ 0.00055856 = 20.5829 BTC [-] {3}

18:06:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12733 @ 0.00055847 = 7.111 BTC [-] {2}

18:12:17 mircea_popescu: new party line i guess. proactively closing the uni financing gap and all that.

18:14:15 asciilifeform: it isn't as if most of the meatpuppets were doing whatever mathematical thing.

18:14:45 asciilifeform: so the reason has to be something else.

18:15:12 mircea_popescu: something else other than the uni-money pump can't be sustained anymore ? why ?

18:16:01 asciilifeform: because then the article would be 'the new, hip trade schools!11' or the like.

18:16:14 mircea_popescu: oh in somewaht lulzy news : obama is going to be in argentina 23-24th. he (and his 850 camp followers) is however not going to stay in buenos aires, but some far flung provincial shithole. either because afraid of running into me on corrientes, or else because petrified of LEFT WING PROTESTS.

18:16:33 mircea_popescu: cuz yeah, the socialists here more or less ready to firebomb the socialists from there.

18:16:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform much like soviet economy endgame, stuff isn't being replaced. simply removed.

18:17:28 asciilifeform: well yeah, but the ~order~ of removal is peculiar.

18:17:39 asciilifeform: most of the participants in the college racket are innocent of mathematics as it is.

18:17:50 mircea_popescu: why ? currently the harvard/mit/etc hedge funds masquerading as universities are pretty much the largest problem on fed's map.

18:18:11 mircea_popescu: oh, this isn't about math. this is about stem. stem costs TURKEY dollars.

18:18:16 mircea_popescu: the "studies" whores cost paper dollars.

18:18:48 PeterL: isn't the "m" in "stem" math?

18:19:20 asciilifeform: it used to ~cost~ when an engineering graduate expected to build bridges, pipelines.

18:19:23 asciilifeform: but not now.

18:19:28 mircea_popescu: you can replace the ~100 trn worth ivy league & friends that do a 10-20 bn spending on actual hardware each year and otherwise shuffle paper on the exchanges with a new-and-improved thing worth ~1-2 bn that spends 50 bucks on mcdonalsa a year.

18:19:38 asciilifeform: now he only expects, reasonably, to derp in cad and crap out 'intellectual property!111'

18:19:49 asciilifeform: he costs same as 'womenz studies' chick.

18:20:05 mircea_popescu: that's 100 trn in air bubble to breathe while the dod keeps losing trucks nominally full of trucks that were fully loaded with trucks.

18:20:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik this isn't true.

18:20:51 mircea_popescu: specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon.

18:21:17 mircea_popescu: notably enough : romania told the soviets to shut it, and as a result the policy was updated to allow people (ie, romania) to do w/e it pleases.

18:21:31 mircea_popescu: curious if any of the loser satellites will succeed, or for that matter try, something similar.

18:21:43 mircea_popescu: (but now we know what the "protests" were for. softening - in preparation of this.)

18:22:01 asciilifeform: (i am speaking of cost of his doing business. ~wage~ is paid in the same toilet paper to everybody in usaschwitz)

18:22:11 mircea_popescu: right. so am i.

18:22:20 mircea_popescu: PeterL only marginally.

18:22:34 mircea_popescu: you know what the eu cyclotron cost ? you know, that thing the us could never afford ?

18:22:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421801 << what would this look like ?

18:22:45 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 18:20:51; mircea_popescu: specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon.

18:23:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it looks like, mit still is the hedge fund it was, whether it spends x on wage and y on fixed/capital goods or just x/2 on wage and epsilon on f/c

18:23:30 mircea_popescu: the savings show in mit's bottom line, not in the fed's.

18:23:43 asciilifeform: it's a usg crown hedgefund. in what sense does it not serve hitler ?

18:23:57 mircea_popescu: it is NOT a usg crown hedgefund anymore than romania was a soviet property.

18:24:14 asciilifeform: dunno about that, good chunk of mit income is direct usg grantolade

18:24:19 mircea_popescu: it has its own head. and this is a serious problem for the pretense of central planning, because they effectively suck down resources.

18:24:25 mircea_popescu: yep, it is.

18:24:34 mircea_popescu: try having children sometime, and then give them money, and then see what happens.

18:25:19 mircea_popescu: i don't think any human being in the history of this "man-woman family" idiocy has EVER heard "sure dad, go ahead, it's your money anyway"

18:26:49 mircea_popescu: ironically, sultans and other practitioners of "man-slavegirls-theirlitter family" did and regularly do hear such, for reasons that should be obvious and for which reason they're never discussed in idiocy-land.

18:27:03 mircea_popescu: anywya.

18:27:08 asciilifeform: hey, now we have man-wienerschnitzel and woman-sofa phamily. pr0gr355555!111

18:27:29 PeterL: The chemistry building where I went to college sits adjacent to the "National superconducting cyclotron", they were in the process of building the "facility for rare isotope beams" when I graduated

18:27:43 jurov: Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-10-2015#1290136

18:27:50 mircea_popescu: PeterL how much does that sorta thing cost ? you know ?

18:28:03 PeterL: I dunno, bunches of dollars?

18:28:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is what i'm saying here making sense to you ?

18:28:05 asciilifeform: PeterL: the usg uni thing was originally a product of the 1950s wunderwaffen obsession, that has been fading since

18:28:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which

18:28:19 asciilifeform: the sultan thing ?

18:28:21 asciilifeform: not entirely

18:28:25 mircea_popescu: nah, the thing with money flow.

18:29:15 asciilifeform: the argument is clear but i don't see how the wunderwaffen payola is necessarily 'turkeydollar'

18:29:30 asciilifeform: so an engineer is paid 200k-usd. he spends it in same place as the lit major.

18:29:33 asciilifeform: housing racket.

18:29:35 mircea_popescu: because the cyclotron building either works or does not. and they can't lie about the latter.

18:29:39 mircea_popescu: nonononon

18:29:40 PeterL: heh, looks like they are still in the process of building it http://www.frib.msu.edu

18:29:44 assbot: Welcome to FRIB | frib.msu.edu ... ( http://bit.ly/1QY4PXR )

18:29:46 mircea_popescu: not that. "National superconducting cyclotron" < that.

18:29:47 asciilifeform: actually they can.

18:29:55 asciilifeform: familiar with the webb space telescope ?

18:30:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, beause the euros and the chinese are building actual working things.

18:30:06 asciilifeform: 1) spend $xx B on project.

18:30:09 asciilifeform: 2) cancel 'at last minute'

18:30:12 mircea_popescu: PeterL see what i mean ?

18:30:13 asciilifeform: 3) profit!111

18:30:16 thestringpuller: free money111

18:30:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only works if you're alone. the us is quite behind in tech fixed goods atm.

18:30:29 mircea_popescu: QUITE behind.

18:30:44 mircea_popescu: this means the good chinese phds do not go there anymore ; and that the americans who aren't fucktarded long left.

18:31:04 PeterL: well, the cyclotron works currently, the frib is an addition

18:31:09 asciilifeform: place is still packed with chinese.

18:31:16 mircea_popescu: and all the smoke and mirrors the vc freakshow may aim to deploy with software ain't gonna help lipstick this one pig.

18:31:38 asciilifeform: and usa is quite alone in its solipsist hell.

18:31:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's all sorts of chinese, and enough of each sort, to feed all bologna factories both with workers and raw material. and still have leftover actual phjds.

18:31:47 asciilifeform: (no one knows or cares about chinese telescope here.)

18:32:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall the lulz i had in the logs when it was discovered the icbc, an economic institution with a sheet larger than the entire us banking sector, was actually NOT EVEN TRADED in the us ?

18:32:24 asciilifeform: l0l real phds? you mean like these - http://retractionwatch.com/2011/02/28/crystal-myth-11-more-retractions-from-crystallography-journal-after-2010-fakery ?

18:32:29 assbot: Crystal myth: 11 more retractions from crystallography journal after 2010 fakery - Retraction Watch at Retraction Watch ... ( http://bit.ly/21c48tB )

18:32:29 mircea_popescu: pinksheets, barely, a fund-of-a-fund thing ?

18:32:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seeing how the article is about english articles, exactly not like those.

18:33:35 asciilifeform: so, meta-china ?

18:33:40 asciilifeform: the one that doesn't publish anything ?

18:33:46 mircea_popescu: PeterL your definition of works being, of course, that it's never included in any actual measurements of anything. look through the actual research sheets, the euros never bother asking them to replicate jack.

18:33:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform publishes plenty, and the ru even translate here and there.

18:35:26 asciilifeform: can haz example?

18:36:00 mircea_popescu: no, because i don't read chinese, nor actually care punctually. i just get (and care about) synthetic reports.

18:37:11 asciilifeform: the ghost cities suggest that cn beats usa at entirely everything, including fraud and bezzle.

18:37:24 mircea_popescu: sure. but the stupid parts are not of particular interest here.

18:41:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform meanwhile i asked for sauce

18:41:25 mircea_popescu: here you go, very partial list of first pass : http://dpaste.com/2823GVE

18:41:27 assbot: dpaste: 2823GVE ... ( http://bit.ly/21c52q1 )

18:42:20 asciilifeform: what even is this

18:42:30 asciilifeform: library catalogue ?

18:42:41 mircea_popescu: aha.

18:43:00 asciilifeform: it is not a mega-surprise that there are libraries in cn.

18:43:06 asciilifeform: but where is the room-temp supercon.

18:43:13 asciilifeform: it is in the same nowhere as here, afaik.

18:43:27 mircea_popescu: libraries in cn about physics written in cn by cn that you can't get in english

18:43:27 asciilifeform: (though uncle al had a pretty solid suspicion that they built his eotvostron)

18:43:29 mircea_popescu: was the discussion.

18:43:32 asciilifeform: ah.

18:44:45 mircea_popescu: and curse you, now i want to read inept shit about cuprate superconductives.

18:44:51 mircea_popescu: blergh. i knew i shouldn't have done this.

18:45:07 asciilifeform: lulzily, i threw one into google and got http://pub.nsfc.gov.cn/pinscn/ch/reader/create_pdf.aspx?file_no=1135253573185568&flag=1&journal_id=pinscn&year_id=2006

18:45:12 asciilifeform: that has... english abstract.

18:45:13 asciilifeform: as most of'em appear to.

18:45:20 asciilifeform: (why???!)

18:45:33 mircea_popescu: no idea.

18:45:46 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421824 <<< ty jurov

18:45:46 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 18:27:43; jurov: Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-10-2015#1290136

18:45:48 asciilifeform: where did mircea_popescu even get this list. took it off a dead nazi ?

18:45:50 PeterL: "English is the language of science!"

18:46:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the way my intel works is that i don't give a shit about the source data, i read summaries of summaries. but god fucking help you if i go for a endpoint-to-endpoint spot check and the whole conduit isn't there.

18:46:38 mircea_popescu: so if i want the raw for something, i can generally get the raw for something.

18:46:51 mircea_popescu: or as much as fits in the buffer i'm willing to handle, at any rate.

18:46:53 PeterL: Abstract in English so that people can decide whether or not they need to get the rest of the paper translated

18:47:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reasonable.

18:47:24 mircea_popescu: PeterL honestly i suspect it's more of a "we're slowly outgrowing this quaint historical convention where it's what's done."

18:47:33 mircea_popescu: !up CryptoSiD

18:47:42 CryptoSiD: hello

18:47:50 mircea_popescu: hi

18:47:51 CryptoSiD: why do i get voiced

18:47:57 CryptoSiD: im that popular!

18:48:17 CryptoSiD: feel like a freenode star right now:D

18:48:36 mircea_popescu: who're you ?

18:49:00 CryptoSiD: im CryptoSiD!

18:49:02 CryptoSiD: :)

18:49:05 mircea_popescu: !down CryptoSiD

18:49:07 mircea_popescu: have fun now.

18:49:13 shinohai: lolz

18:53:51 mircea_popescu: come to think about it, i guess good intel works pretty much like you want your lisp ast thing to work.

18:54:03 mircea_popescu: surprising i guess ~ no one

18:54:15 asciilifeform: aha.

18:54:45 asciilifeform: correct things are all quite alike, broken crapolade is each broken in its own broken-glass way

18:54:48 asciilifeform: or how did it go.

18:58:23 mircea_popescu: somethinglike.that

19:01:47 mircea_popescu: and in other gross and deeply disturbing news you had no idea you were interested in : the right way to get the butt flavour in girl's mouth is to fuck ass with condom on, then take it off and have her suck you. bacteria - do not cross the silicon barrier. mercaptans and other intoxicating goodies - do.

19:08:09 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ? << Go for it

19:21:33 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421174 can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs

19:21:33 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 17:37:20; asciilifeform: sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ?

19:25:50 jurov: verification is not O(1) even if no unconfirmed inputs is enforced, it's O(N) where N is number of inputs

19:28:45 jurov: to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine

19:29:21 jurov: (i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly)

19:30:25 jurov: it will be done some day in shivascheme, maybe even by me, but I don't seehow to keep good (or predictable) memory usage

19:30:45 jurov: this is *the* problem, not chained unconfirmed transactions

19:37:13 mircea_popescu: jurov> (i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly) << yeah i know it's rather miserable.

19:43:13 asciilifeform: jurov: iirc your prototype crashed for everybody

19:43:25 thestringpuller: LOL. my coworkers just bailed. it's weird being the responsibile one...

19:52:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421921 << this is nonsense, please take 5 min to think !

19:52:42 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 19:21:33; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421174 can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs

19:53:05 asciilifeform: a mysterymeat orphan piece of shit takes up ~space~

19:56:19 asciilifeform: and if you allow chained tx, now you have to walk the mempool when checking the validity of ~any~ incoming tx.

19:56:26 asciilifeform: what is so hard to grasp about this.

19:57:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421924 << use a fibonacci heap.

19:57:19 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 19:28:45; jurov: to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine

19:57:56 asciilifeform: http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm

19:59:16 asciilifeform: http://maryrosecook.com/blog/post/the-fibonacci-heap-ruins-my-life << lulzy and related.

19:59:17 assbot: The Fibonacci heap ruins my life ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyEEl6 )

20:03:51 jurov: you have to "walk" mempool for every tx regardless

20:03:55 jurov: to check for conflicts

20:04:59 asciilifeform: why?

20:05:07 asciilifeform: this is the miner's job

20:05:31 asciilifeform: a tx that spends an input that is not yet spent in an actual block, is valid.

20:05:43 asciilifeform: (assuming that it is validly signed, and violates no rule)

20:05:53 jurov: so i can generate N doublespends with high tx fee and you're happily gonna carryy them in mempool and propagate?

20:05:54 mircea_popescu: ^

20:06:02 mircea_popescu: jurov yes.

20:06:07 asciilifeform: jurov: absolutely.

20:06:18 asciilifeform: how am i to know which one is 'double'

20:06:21 mircea_popescu: the notion that it works any other way is so fucktarfded i couldn't begin to explain it

20:06:23 asciilifeform: and which - the 'legit'.

20:06:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it.

20:06:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13110 @ 0.00055846 = 7.3214 BTC [-] {2}

20:06:47 mircea_popescu: and if one day a double jurov appears, your wife better fuck BOTH of you, and well, or else she gets beaten.

20:06:59 mircea_popescu: and by both, for EACH case once. so four times.

20:07:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35640 @ 0.00055829 = 19.8975 BTC [-]

20:07:53 asciilifeform: who has seen the film 'the prestige' ?

20:08:07 jurov: i have no words

20:08:23 mircea_popescu: i did not.

20:08:29 asciilifeform: it is kinda about this.

20:08:31 asciilifeform: and overall notbad.

20:08:36 *: mircea_popescu adding to list

20:08:43 mircea_popescu: i "saw" 6 films ion the space of an hour last night

20:08:58 mircea_popescu: "close and wipe this. how the fuck did it end up in ?" x6.

20:09:03 asciilifeform: l0l

20:09:20 mircea_popescu: "well it had kidman and malkovich in it" sorta answers.

20:09:20 jurov: and the rule is simple - the 'double' is the one with lower txfee.

20:09:25 mircea_popescu: jesus the shit people will act in.

20:09:37 mircea_popescu: jurov that's the end result, once proper ring buffer sorts by fee yes.

20:09:41 asciilifeform: jurov: aha

20:09:43 jurov: if there same and lower, jsut drop it

20:09:54 mircea_popescu: but it is absolutely not the relay's fucking job to attempt to otherwise "check" txns

20:10:03 mircea_popescu: "is it signed validly ? are the inputs in blocks ?" and that is IT.

20:10:07 asciilifeform: from miner's pov, that'd be a defective relay

20:10:11 asciilifeform: and is to be eschewed.

20:10:14 mircea_popescu: ^

20:10:25 asciilifeform: it is really not so fucking hard to grasp the protocol

20:10:46 asciilifeform: (though a number of folks do a mighty fine job failing, somehow, to)

20:11:07 mircea_popescu: you mean to guess what the protocol should have been

20:11:20 jurov: the realy that allows to fillt is mempool by conflicting transactions is indeed defective

20:11:31 jurov: damn kdb

20:12:01 mircea_popescu: there is absolutely nothing wrong relaying multiple txn that spend the same inputs ; there is EVERYTHING wrong with the notion you shouldn't do this.

20:12:08 asciilifeform: jurov: beyond 'throw out the cheapo crapola', it is not relay's place to resolve the conflict.

20:12:43 mircea_popescu: certainly ANY relay that currently drops on the floor a VALIDLY SIGNED txn is broken. no possible argument here.

20:12:47 mircea_popescu: the job of relaying is - to relay.

20:13:19 asciilifeform: well, validly-signed but inputs-already-spent-and-this-is-in-a-block is noise.

20:13:28 jurov: so, i'll spend 1 btc million times with 0.1 fee, feed it to you and you'll be like "not my problem"?

20:13:30 mircea_popescu: the overarching design principle being that ALL the information deciding the treatment of a txn MUST BE ~COMPLETELY~ in the txn in question.

20:13:34 mircea_popescu: you may NOT have state.

20:13:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a permitted state - it is called the blockchain.

20:13:48 asciilifeform: as in, the actual blocks.

20:13:59 jurov: this is wankery.

20:13:59 mircea_popescu: and the idiots that made a state machine out of the fucking relays are so stupid it's basically inhuman.

20:14:11 jurov: and won't work in practice.

20:14:14 mircea_popescu: psssh.

20:14:36 asciilifeform: jurov: works great in practice. in your trb node.

20:14:56 jurov: my node does check for conflicts

20:15:34 jurov: that works great, too

20:18:00 jurov: !up Reydev

20:19:23 asciilifeform: jurov: checks for conflicts ?!

20:19:27 asciilifeform: and what does it reject ??

20:19:32 asciilifeform: whatever comes second ??

20:19:37 jurov: so far, yes

20:20:07 asciilifeform: verily this is lame.

20:21:19 jurov: letting memory to fill with turds isn't lame?

20:21:23 jurov: both are.

20:23:00 asciilifeform: it isn't a turd if it is valid.

20:23:19 asciilifeform: (well, it can be, if it falls below the specified fee/byte mark)

20:26:38 jurov: your memory together for all the conficted txs falls below the specified fee/byte mark, you can admit at least this is true

20:27:14 asciilifeform: jurov: the logical thing to do would be to resolve all conflicts by maximizing fee.

20:27:19 asciilifeform: the only logical thing.

20:27:33 asciilifeform: but 'seen first is The One' is asinine.

20:27:37 jurov: but ALL the conflicts have same $maxint fee

20:28:02 jurov: YES, first one, si asinine, lit's move on

20:28:34 jurov: i don't argue to keep current algo!

20:28:50 jurov: i just am asking ahy you give your memory so cheaply?

20:29:05 asciilifeform: the original thread was re: how the current protocol, which allows a tx to refer to unconfirmed inputs, is retarded.

20:29:35 jurov: and you reacted by putting forward no less retarded notion to keep everythign that has inputs in block

20:29:57 asciilifeform: while maximizing summed fee, aha

20:30:05 asciilifeform: what's the problem with that ?

20:30:17 asciilifeform: and yes, you sum over the non-conflicting tx.

20:30:45 jurov: but then you have to check for conflicts!

20:31:11 trinque: lol

20:31:23 jurov: am i dense or what's happening here

20:31:41 asciilifeform: you check ~when expelling~ from the pool

20:31:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but 'seen first is The One' is asinine. << srsly.

20:32:05 jurov: either there's a state machine that considers other txen in mempool, or no conflict resolution, there's no third way

20:32:14 mircea_popescu: no conflict resolution.

20:32:17 mircea_popescu: it is not a relayer job.

20:32:39 mircea_popescu: dumbass doing the original ~prototype~ had nfi of design, ended up shoehorning everything in everything else

20:32:55 mircea_popescu: producing the equivalent of penises with a clitoral hood and cunts with a bit of penile foreskin and on and on.

20:33:49 jurov: no conflict resolution = free memory for attacker

20:34:34 jurov: messing with your clitoris wont change it

20:34:57 asciilifeform: conflict resolution == free cpu for attacker.

20:35:50 jurov: how free?

20:36:08 jurov: they must make all these zillion conflicting signatures

20:36:27 jurov: and also loses txfee when one of these tx is mined

20:37:41 jurov: oh and actually, how do you check if enemy sends the same tx many times?

20:37:57 jurov: without even producing new sigs?

20:38:16 asciilifeform: he can make'em in O(1)

20:38:22 asciilifeform: you resolve in O(N^2).

20:38:40 asciilifeform: asymptotic death.

20:38:41 jurov: why O(N)?

20:38:53 jurov: *why not

20:39:50 mircea_popescu: jurov> no conflict resolution = free memory for attacker << you drop stuff under minfee.

20:40:11 mircea_popescu: jurov because you have to search omg.

20:40:20 jurov: mircea_popescu of course. please reread and think

20:40:29 mircea_popescu: EVEN if you build a tree - which you do not, chiefly because don't know how - you STILL lose out on the rebalancings

20:40:33 mircea_popescu: which you must do and he - not.

20:40:35 jurov: we don't have anything better than cartesian joins?

20:42:34 jurov: eh why do i strive here, like with NAT, inputs vs. addresses and maybe several other things, you will eventually come to terms with what i meant

20:43:03 jurov: after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot

20:43:04 mircea_popescu: well, for practicing speech if nothing else.

20:43:18 mircea_popescu: what do you think this is in reference to ?

20:44:34 jurov: i explained why NAT is stupid, like one way telephone that only accepts calls, you laughed at me and told you wouldn't want any other

20:44:51 jurov: *that only allows outgoing calls

20:45:34 jurov: then we had dicsussion where I was unable to explain why addresses aren't spent, but outputs are, same reult

20:46:31 mircea_popescu: specifically : "<jurov> after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot" << you propose i did what ?

20:46:43 jurov: why did you list NAT.ROUTERS?

20:46:47 jurov: "list"

20:47:04 mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea, it's a random string. it certainly didn't have some sort of intention, and i was certainly not thinking of you.

20:47:17 mircea_popescu: i think i had moneys-something in there for a while also, or whatever.

20:47:49 mircea_popescu: but this aside. so you said nat routers are stupid and i said i'm happy with them and this evnetually means i came to terms to what, using the jurov two way router ? or what ?

20:48:30 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ?

20:48:40 jurov: overall, i feel i can't explain myself well to you no matter what i try

20:49:15 mircea_popescu: in all cases when what you're trying to explain makes no sense or generally ?

20:49:32 jurov: in many cases. then alf or someone other explains again and you get it

20:51:04 mircea_popescu: must be frustrating. well, generally a good starting point of understanding a problem is, making a list of observed cases.

20:51:27 mircea_popescu: but the important part there is making the complete list, like with any other scientific approach.

20:51:28 jurov: yes this needs some examples and i don't have it

20:51:58 mircea_popescu: in the interim, http://36.media.tumblr.com/da92abb4cb83ac6ed09106da2fd1421e/tumblr_mlfknbycbE1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

20:52:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L7ykEr )

20:57:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suppose his idea is, in plainer english, that in principle fee is no deterrent, because if he makes 1mn txn that are all valid but spend the same inputs, only one can be eventgually mined and so he can create as many txn as he wants for you to relay and only pay the fee once, eventually. whereas only keeping the first seen one protects from this.

20:58:27 mircea_popescu: how this is supposed to be an argument against sane design i have no idea, but whatevs, "kludge works for me" is how we get kludges ever since kludge one.

21:05:52 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ? << yes

21:06:18 mircea_popescu: plox to change ref then

21:07:12 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422061 << i betcha that mircea_popescu could make an argument for nat! perhaps involving greek slavegurlz who can only speak outside the households through master's lips, or the like.

21:07:12 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 20:46:43; jurov: why did you list NAT.ROUTERS?

21:08:03 mircea_popescu: see also first paragraph of http://fraudsters.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/#comment-116653

21:08:04 assbot: Please stop using DNS already, and other considerations on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1XPA1bf )

21:08:12 mircea_popescu: the current abomination was never intended re : internet.

21:08:19 mircea_popescu: flatware etatist bullshit.

21:08:41 asciilifeform: aha.

21:09:28 asciilifeform: and it comes back to the tx thing like this: eventually we learn who shat out the million crud tx.

21:09:40 asciilifeform: and stop peering with him.

21:10:09 asciilifeform: and then he has to beg, to use the network at all.

21:10:38 asciilifeform: the net-as-publictoilet era will end.

21:10:49 asciilifeform: and good fucking riddance.

21:12:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's no such actual thing as flatgraph - only star topology with thinly disguised star.

21:13:00 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the net-as-publictoilet era will e << and this is exactly the situation we have now, except we don't like the miners.

21:13:13 asciilifeform: aha.

21:13:19 mircea_popescu: the expectation you'll fix broken protocol sociall is inept.

21:13:23 mircea_popescu: fix the protocol.

21:13:36 asciilifeform: the ancient and inevitable pill for such situations is called:

21:13:40 asciilifeform: war.

21:14:26 mircea_popescu: war is the thing that happens when idiots fucked up the design.

21:14:33 asciilifeform: aha.

21:15:52 mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the issue. having nodes discard dupes is in principle stupid ; having nodes discard dupes on a first-seen basis is entirely warantless ; trying to run an implementation of this design will run into problems.

21:15:58 asciilifeform: my point was, minertards won't go willingly into the good night.

21:16:20 mircea_popescu: the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance.\

21:16:45 mircea_popescu: which is why bitcoin protocol discussions are so complex, and the whole thing so hard : because omfg, the complexity. you don't even rightly know where the problem comes from really, in the rat's nest.

21:16:50 asciilifeform: (and the protocol actually selects for idiots, smart folks don't mine)

21:17:54 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422102 << waiwut??

21:17:54 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 21:16:20; mircea_popescu: the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance.\

21:18:05 asciilifeform: what's this mean

21:18:07 mircea_popescu: yes, what ?

21:19:30 mircea_popescu: for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one way.

21:19:37 asciilifeform: bitstrings are 'dupable' by nature, bitcoin's whole purpose is to hack around this, to the extent physically possible, like a ship is a hack around the sea

21:19:46 mircea_popescu: they don't have to be.

21:20:56 asciilifeform: it still isn't '1 way' - sig nonce, timestamp, scriptolade...

21:21:05 mircea_popescu: (yes i'm aware that the above example allows no payments other than in multiples of 50 btc for a while, then multiples of 25, and EVENTUALLY in sasothis. MIND YOU that this is a feature and what you are using now a bug - da fuck do you do when the coinbase is split up in all the satoshis it could be ? ha ? oh, "works for you as it is" ? ty.)

21:21:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform none of that.

21:21:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00055936 = 3.524 BTC [+]

21:21:48 asciilifeform: i like unitary coinz.

21:21:52 mircea_popescu: of course you do.

21:22:03 mircea_popescu: because unlike shitforbrainsatosi stuff, they make sense.

21:22:12 asciilifeform: my useless unpublished 'bitcoin' circa 07 - had.

21:22:27 asciilifeform: unitaries.

21:23:08 asciilifeform: like castle title.

21:23:29 mircea_popescu: i just put that there to generally and pars pro toto show that when i say bitcoin is a steaming pile of shit, and broadly an undesigned kludge i mean very specific things.

21:23:57 mircea_popescu: and derpy arguments "won" with me over the particular brokedness of the prototype implementation are roughly the same value and consistency as used toiletpaper.

21:24:05 asciilifeform: i suspect that we all here know which.

21:24:28 mircea_popescu: im not even sure I know which! there's too many. and the bitch with things like these is you always forget one.

21:24:31 mircea_popescu: heck, i usually forget two.

21:24:41 asciilifeform: bitcoin is a desperate wartime wunderwaffen.

21:25:38 deedbot-: [Qntra] Hold on to your butts – Argentina is going on sale. - http://qntra.net/2016/03/hold-on-to-your-butts-argentina-is-going-on-sale/

21:25:48 mircea_popescu: o hey! check me out i'm a qntra star!

21:27:51 BingoBoingo: Seriously

21:28:47 *: BingoBoingo wonders how hot a bride one can acquire from Argentina in 12 months by bartering a 40 foot container of nyger seed

21:29:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think they even ~make~ non-hot gurlz in ar

21:30:03 asciilifeform: go, see.

21:30:24 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Do two or three brides for a container of thistle seed is possibru?

21:31:01 mircea_popescu: if you're not picky about tall, you can prolly have brides for the feeding.

21:31:06 mircea_popescu: go to teh provinces.

21:31:47 mircea_popescu: they don't make ~fat~ gurlz here. but they do make shorties.

21:33:51 BingoBoingo: short's fine

21:36:10 shinohai: Just realized I had a misspelling in that dpaste I sent BingoBoingo

21:36:25 asciilifeform: i have nfi whether they make good pets tho

21:36:52 shinohai: actually, two

21:38:04 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Then just resubmit, haven't opened it yet.

21:40:08 shinohai: ok one moment

21:43:25 shinohai: BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/3PSTK7V

21:43:27 assbot: dpaste: 3PSTK7V ... ( http://bit.ly/1LFuodR )

21:51:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422109 << btw this doesn't cure doublespends.

21:51:23 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 21:19:30; mircea_popescu: for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one way.

21:51:51 asciilifeform: can still transmit 'x -> y' and 'x -> q'

21:54:35 asciilifeform: where y != q

21:56:22 asciilifeform: but verily, s put the turingcompleteness in the ONE place it least belonged, the tx processor.

21:56:43 asciilifeform: rabid idiocy.

21:58:39 asciilifeform: as we have it, comparing 2 tx is.. undecidable.

22:06:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i said, just example.

22:07:32 asciilifeform: aha

22:07:56 mircea_popescu: at least on this design the problem is sanely approacheable - make address creation REASONABLY expensive, for SANE, DEFINED, PROTOCOL reasons.

22:08:01 asciilifeform: it solves malleability- but not doubles

22:08:14 mircea_popescu: not "why is it chained liek so ?" "uhhhh... [spittle dribbling]" as is currently the case.

22:09:10 mircea_popescu: so that someone asking for a payment to address x already has skin in the game - whatever it cost him to make the address.

22:09:57 asciilifeform: pow to make addr?

22:10:01 mircea_popescu: why not ?

22:10:06 asciilifeform: interesting idea

22:10:10 mircea_popescu: i'm just saying - if you're actually designing, you DESIGN.

22:10:22 mircea_popescu: if shit just falls on the ground and you try to pretend it's art, on the other hand...

22:10:41 asciilifeform: aha. my design, for instance, had tx-as-integer

22:10:49 asciilifeform: addr - prime

22:11:36 asciilifeform: tx-making - modular exp.

22:11:47 asciilifeform: you can sorta guess the rest.

22:11:51 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Rewrite with an emphasis on how stupid everyone involved in this has to be for this shit to have even been uttered.

22:12:33 shinohai: kk

22:12:58 hanbot: <mircea_popescu> i did not. << you saw it, you didn't like it

22:13:06 mircea_popescu: which one was this ?!

22:13:44 hanbot: you know, where they got david bowie to play tesla.

22:13:53 asciilifeform: it.

22:13:55 mircea_popescu: oh the one with blondy whats her face ?

22:14:34 hanbot: buncha sepia-toned stage magician stuffs with typical christopher nolan over-foreboding.

22:14:37 asciilifeform: mentioned re: duplicates.

22:14:37 hanbot: and yeah, her.

22:14:39 BingoBoingo: shinohai: It's a lulzy thing, but it needs more of a hook

22:14:44 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, wanna-be the superimaginarium/illusionist except with very bad historic research.

22:15:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was so miserable i even deleted it from ram.

22:15:12 mircea_popescu: doublespent!

22:15:20 asciilifeform: imaginarium rocked.

22:15:26 mircea_popescu: hard to beat.

22:15:33 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Mebbe bring an actual pathogen into the discussion so as to contrast this herpajerk

22:15:57 shinohai: I warned you I was a very green journalist.

22:16:10 BingoBoingo: I know that's why now you gotta practiced.

22:16:43 BingoBoingo: Since you submitted this I expect you to resumbit better this.

22:17:54 *: BingoBoingo still awaits mp's fraudsters review of the Verhoeven masterpiece Robocop

22:19:14 mircea_popescu: i loved that when i was... i dunno, 9 ?

22:19:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38980 @ 0.00055831 = 21.7629 BTC [-] {2}

22:23:04 BingoBoingo: But did you write it up on fraudsters when you were 9?

22:24:05 mircea_popescu: nope. which may well mean it missed its chance

22:24:49 BingoBoingo: Shame, the #b-a canon it poorer for it.

22:25:25 mircea_popescu: you write it! you got a blog neh ?

22:28:14 BingoBoingo: Ah, but that would be the lesser Bingo review of Robocop. What do you think authors are, fungible?

22:31:17 shinohai: Shit bbib I need a drink.

22:34:15 asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=log << check out the claptrap.

22:34:17 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/log ... ( http://bit.ly/1VWTwNP )

22:40:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be interesting if a valid addr could only come to exist with a coinbase formation !

22:41:59 asciilifeform: great plebespray.

22:45:41 asciilifeform: perhaps i had everything backwards.. possibly, being able to transact ~without~ mining, is the bug. not mining...

22:46:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68500 @ 0.00055791 = 38.2168 BTC [-] {5}

22:48:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00055747 = 12.7382 BTC [-]

22:50:21 asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=28e2513721ff0cec920564d4087f3600cce8672e << for fucks sake

22:50:22 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/1TwW9IF )

22:57:59 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: now that's a thought-provoker.

23:01:37 asciilifeform: ~nobody wants to admit, but ~the~ mega-problem of bitcoin is... that it is FAR too accessible.

23:01:46 trinque: This feature is independent of --use-tor and automagically uses Tor if available. << wahahahahaha

23:02:30 asciilifeform: trinque: and he checks for it by running hardcoded shellout...

23:04:12 trinque: who can discern malicious actor from useful idiot in this sea of shit

23:04:24 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> perhaps i had everything backwards << which is exactly my metapoint here. for as long as such can occur, it is CLEAR we don't have the perimeter of this thing yet.

23:04:56 asciilifeform: quite.

23:05:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ~nobody wants to admit << nobody wants to admit except for the guy that's been saying it for years. yeh!

23:05:56 asciilifeform: but imho i found the '2nd law of thermo' in re bitcoin- the nothing-for-showing-up principle.

23:06:14 mircea_popescu: may the historians long name you for it.

23:06:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha 1 guy

23:06:22 asciilifeform: l0l

23:07:25 asciilifeform: trinque: what is the point of attempting this distinction?

23:07:48 asciilifeform: !s wyatt dog

23:07:49 assbot: 4 results for 'wyatt dog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=wyatt+dog

23:08:12 mircea_popescu: "This patch also fixes a memory leak of opt.keyserver en passant." << first rule of koch, drepper, weiner & all nsa goons : ALWAYS bundle new vulns with memory leak fixes etc.

23:08:16 trinque: most people are and have always been followers; it is the leaders who are the problem

23:08:16 mircea_popescu: "en passant" indeed.

23:08:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-02-2015#1014374

23:08:19 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 03:25:08; mircea_popescu: this is like asking wyatt earp "how do you distinguish between the f brothers and stray dog"

23:08:36 mircea_popescu: trinque no, this is certainly malicious to the hilt.

23:08:48 asciilifeform: how else.

23:08:49 shinohai: https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/segwit-forked-unexpectedly-on-testnet-t6111.html <<< top kek

23:08:50 assbot: SegWit forked unexpectedly on testnet - The Bitcoin Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qrhyiv )

23:08:50 mircea_popescu: nobody ever did or ever would do this combo except deliberately and for this reason.

23:09:00 mircea_popescu: lol shinohai

23:09:05 mircea_popescu: feel free to qntra, all the lulz.

23:09:11 asciilifeform: anyway i have a fat bag of this horror

23:09:30 asciilifeform: dug for ages.

23:09:43 asciilifeform: thoroughly revolting.

23:10:05 trinque: mircea_popescu: I see the malice in the act, but am commenting on the pervasiveness of propaganda such that malicious acts can be projected through many obedient, subservient nodes

23:10:35 mircea_popescu: aha

23:11:39 asciilifeform: e.g., usb (!!!) invocations

23:11:57 asciilifeform: read, weep

23:13:27 asciilifeform: how long, i wonder, has koch been dead.

23:22:06 asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c34711539fc2c34aea8da0fd49ae6aa28991518;hp=9f4f77bc4b8bf17010796fe3c2d23024047154ea

23:22:06 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commitdiff ... ( http://bit.ly/24GUC64 )

23:22:15 asciilifeform: ^ run moar dns

23:27:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00055747 = 6.6896 BTC [-] {2}

23:30:00 asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=7735bbe539af35ce16e270946d5ae798c5989d6e

23:30:01 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVlEo )

23:30:07 asciilifeform: 'Remove gethostbyname hack;

23:30:09 asciilifeform: we require getaddrinfo anyway.'

23:31:27 asciilifeform: ( he took it out in http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=927f34603d942868af6a7bd0f347681bbad76a94 --- and then put back !! )

23:31:28 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVuaQ )

23:31:59 asciilifeform: or hm.

23:32:48 asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=6fafda979df8e7e117f8e6929bcce89513a6e746 << refuses to BUILD if dns is not available.

23:32:49 assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( http://bit.ly/24GVA2j )

23:33:04 asciilifeform: 'For dirmngr I made liberal use of getaddrinfo w/o

23:33:25 asciilifeform: without checking. Just in case someone tries to build on an old

23:33:27 asciilifeform: platform we now error our with a suitable #error.'

23:34:06 mircea_popescu: you know... we aren't using this shit for a [number of] reasons.

23:34:23 asciilifeform: well yeah

23:34:34 asciilifeform: but i can't fathom WHY he did it

23:34:47 asciilifeform: or what, was impaled ?

23:35:32 mircea_popescu: why. cuz he's an evil goatfucker.

23:36:06 asciilifeform: was born one ?

23:36:16 asciilifeform: if so, why did he write gpg to begin with, as disinfo ?

23:36:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00055742 = 24.2901 BTC [-] {4}

23:38:46 mircea_popescu: you understand how virulence works in pathogens ?

23:38:54 asciilifeform: i think so.

23:39:08 asciilifeform: e.g., ebola burnout.

23:39:11 mircea_popescu: he's a fuycking spirochete. does useful shit until govt shows up.

23:41:22 mircea_popescu: one can have zona zooster by the pail in the system, nothing happens

23:41:35 mircea_popescu: then one day you eat the wrong end of a lovage leaf and holy shit you're covered in hives.

23:42:36 asciilifeform: is this a p450 thing ?

23:42:50 asciilifeform: i could've sworn we had a thread.

23:42:59 BingoBoingo: !s CYP450

23:43:00 assbot: 1 results for 'CYP450' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=CYP450

23:43:09 BingoBoingo: !s CYP 450

23:43:09 assbot: 4 results for 'CYP 450' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=CYP+450