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Transcript for 04-07-2015, 1559 lines:

00:00:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184791 << it's not that far off, i was thinking g_l sounded a lot like a much younger rms.

00:00:31 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 00:07:59; trinque: asciilifeform: the thought actually was... "so emacs is a sort of masamune... lol!"

00:02:06 punkman: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/

00:02:07 assbot: The Zero-Armed Bandit • Damn Interesting ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ral2ZG )

00:02:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184817 << the loller of all time. when bitcoinj were making a 2nd implementation, the same crowd gnashed teeth about what a horribly bad and not good and dangerous and canned doom of an idea it is.

00:02:26 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:24:07; asciilifeform: meanwhile, in turdmeisterdom, http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/07/03#l1435884599.0

00:02:51 mircea_popescu: now that usg finally arrayed enough ethereum shitfountains to imagine it can pull it off, the tune changed. and it changed mid sentence and full spin around.

00:03:41 *: mircea_popescu loses interest after six lines or so.

00:03:58 mircea_popescu: this is why i have people doing summaries of the shit, which summaries i generally do not read.

00:04:20 mircea_popescu: i dunno how or why it'd be worth anyone's time, outside of the perverse interests of entomologists etc.

00:05:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184828 << speaking of which : a) you folk are gonna publish ips once the sync's done yes ? and b) bringing a seed up on nsa hardware this month maybe ?

00:05:12 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:27:53; asciilifeform: shinohai: mircea_popescu has one up

00:06:21 shinohai: on block 217340, will publish ip when synced fully

00:06:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184841 << was an important milestone this. at least for my internals.

00:06:22 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:34:33; asciilifeform: all i can personally say about this is that it serves up (big fat surprise!) apparently correct blocks

00:06:28 mircea_popescu: shinohai great.

00:08:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17321 @ 0.0005028 = 8.709 BTC [+] {2}

00:08:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184853 << that

00:08:25 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:39:38; asciilifeform: or does it open ordinary sockets and expect a tcp stack

00:11:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184908 << this is dubious. people failed to realise and walk away from us, why would they move away ever ?

00:11:20 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:54:30; decimation: if house always wins, people will realized and move on

00:12:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184912 << but you would have statistically visible "overwinning".

00:12:20 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:56:25; asciilifeform: whose only purpose is to be one of the 'provably fair' winners that day

00:13:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184940 << wait.

00:13:09 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 02:19:38; trinque: the docker daemon itself is this vast wad o' golang that runs as root

00:13:10 mircea_popescu: wut ?!

00:14:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184941 << would be infinitely better if it used "english dictionary" instead of "base64" as an encoding mechanism.

00:14:18 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 02:19:40; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://github.com/Rossem/RedditStorage << somebody liked your reddit-shitburial idea

00:14:28 mircea_popescu: nobody could distinguish its output from normal reddit functioning.

00:16:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184982 << there is a difference between "reason to believe poses a threat" and "no reason to believe doens't pose a threat".

00:16:57 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 02:57:14; decimation: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/30/heres-why-an-officer-was-legally-allowed-to-shoot-the-escaped-prisoner-in-the-back/ < "You cannot shoot any fleeing felon, but certainly you can shoot the one who poses a real threat. There was no reason to believe this person who had killed a police officer before was not posing a real threat."

00:17:22 mircea_popescu: this difference is a lot more marked than the subtle contortions the supreme court's been using these last years to rule in favour of unexamined hipsterism

00:21:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185066 o.O

00:21:55 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 11:01:01; jurov: plus some utterly vexing and hapless dreams gratis

00:22:06 mircea_popescu: want a loaf of tuber bread ?

00:23:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @ 0.00051533 = 53.2594 BTC [+]

00:24:29 shinohai: "due to there incompetence in securing there system" >>> http://redd.it/3c1n6r

00:24:30 assbot: Blockchain paid 17 BTC belonging to me to scammer : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1GV8M5f )

00:24:45 shinohai: [sic] their

00:24:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185122 << dat sentence :D

00:24:54 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 11:58:29; jurov: she wore out several of them

00:24:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185130 << thread's not easy to wear out.

00:24:56 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 12:03:45; diana_coman: very solid for a piece of thread basically :)))

00:26:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185163 <<< but i thought they OWNED REDDIT NOTES!!11

00:26:47 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 13:37:30; decimation: oh no the reddit owners treat the tens of thousands of people that work for them for free as slaves!

00:26:51 mircea_popescu: fucktards srsly.

00:27:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185164 << o has it ? mod6 you got any opinion on the subject ?

00:27:46 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 13:43:50; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-07-2015#1184469 << this has *always* gotten up my nose

00:33:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186165 << my idea is to bring up node on dulap as soon as syncs

00:33:44 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 00:05:12; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184828 << speaking of which : a) you folk are gonna publish ips once the sync's done yes ? and b) bringing a seed up on nsa hardware this month maybe ?

00:34:40 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186176 << not if done correctly. all the peanutgallery could see is 'the statistically expected number of players won'

00:34:40 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 00:12:20; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184912 << but you would have statistically visible "overwinning".

00:34:49 asciilifeform: they'd just all happen to be employees of the house.

00:35:01 asciilifeform: (or rather, tx's issued by house.)

00:36:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1186154 << l0l, short supply ?! most plentiful thing on planet3

00:36:24 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 23:58:23; mircea_popescu: this is rank nonsense if you think any about it. the only part of sex that's in short supply is the erect penis. everything else is overabundant. how exactly would the owners of the only rare part be paying anyone for anything whatsoever ?

00:37:03 asciilifeform: doesn't sell very well on its own.

00:39:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: anybody interested in multiprocessorizing bitcoin sig check ?

00:39:33 asciilifeform: it'd be trivial

00:39:50 asciilifeform: (but afaik, no one has done it yet... why ?)

00:40:41 ben_vulpes: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/primate-diaries/raising-darwins-consciousness-an-interview-with-sarah-blaffer-hrdy-/ << asciilifeform l0l 404!

00:40:43 assbot: 404 - Scientific American Blog Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1GVa9AZ )

00:40:55 ben_vulpes: i am *not* logged up

00:41:33 asciilifeform: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:acA0xSOPfrAJ:blogs.scientificamerican.com/primate-diaries/raising-darwins-consciousness-an-interview-with-sarah-blaffer-hrdy-on-mother-nature/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

00:41:33 assbot: Raising Darwin's Consciousness: An Interview with Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on Mother Nature - The Primate Diaries - Scientific American Blog Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1GVaeVi )

00:41:49 asciilifeform: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rdkpk4a5oh4J:blogs.scientificamerican.com/primate-diaries/raising-darwins-consciousness-sarah-blaffer-hrdy-on-the-evolutionary-lessons-of-motherhood/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

00:41:50 assbot: Raising Darwin's Consciousness: Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on the Evolutionary Lessons of Motherhood - The Primate Diaries - Scientific American Blog Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1GVafIN )

00:41:54 ben_vulpes: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/primate-diaries/raising-darwins-consciousness-an-interview-with-sarah-blaffer-hrdy-on-mother-nature/

00:41:55 assbot: Raising Darwin's Consciousness: An Interview with Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on Mother Nature - The Primate Diaries - Scientific American Blog Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1GVafZf )

00:41:55 asciilifeform: ^ up, for the time being

00:42:21 ben_vulpes: lol @ btc->sexprs, asciilifeform

00:42:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185338 << and the phf went & did

00:42:45 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 17:50:03; phf: i was exploring block storage format, so i wrote some lisp code to read blocks out of .dat in sequence or directly from dumpblock'ed file http://paste.lisp.org/+38JG. i'm not sure where i'm going with it, so i'm leaving it here for interested parties.

00:43:01 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: blockchain->sexprs or ragel parser

00:43:07 asciilifeform: one of those beautiful magic momentz

00:43:12 asciilifeform: when i don't have to do a chore personally

00:43:48 ben_vulpes: leading any charge is risky and painful

00:44:55 ben_vulpes: muchas gracias for the hrdy link

00:45:01 asciilifeform: np

00:45:09 asciilifeform: save the thing somewhere (archive.today ?)

00:45:19 asciilifeform: i bet the linked turd is not long for this world

00:45:50 ben_vulpes: first link already 404d

00:46:36 ben_vulpes: https://archive.is/39iJE

00:46:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDFEWm )

00:47:09 ben_vulpes: how does this thing even work

00:47:25 ben_vulpes: phf: ty for lisps

00:47:53 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that cutblock c util was very instructive, ty

00:48:20 ben_vulpes: phf: (v. instructive among other good things)

00:48:23 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: could do an even shorter/sweeter bidirectional (!) version with 'binary-types' ( http://www.cliki.net/binary-types )

00:48:24 assbot: CLiki: Binary-types ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDFNZH )

00:48:32 punkman: I run stator.sh and it barfed http://dpaste.com/3GHQRAC.txt

00:48:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDFOwP )

00:48:56 asciilifeform: punkman: you gotta download the deps !

00:49:02 punkman: I did

00:49:08 ben_vulpes: aha that's really nifty.

00:49:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^

00:49:50 asciilifeform: punkman: your shell, for some reason, isn't seeing the install dir

00:49:58 asciilifeform: and tries to create bdb's 'include' in root

00:50:05 asciilifeform: whatcha building on ?

00:50:07 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185122 << i grow curious about average hrs/user spent in eulora

00:50:07 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 11:58:29; jurov: she wore out several of them

00:50:10 asciilifeform: vax?

00:50:10 ben_vulpes: of the active users.

00:50:13 phf: ben_vulpes: like asciilifeform said there are better approaches, but yw

00:50:16 punkman: some version of Mint

00:50:28 ben_vulpes: phf: well hey like i said instructive

00:50:36 asciilifeform: punkman: from here i can only conclude that your unixlike is braindamaged beyond repair!

00:50:39 asciilifeform: get a gentoo ?

00:50:51 asciilifeform: or what BingoBoingo or mod6 built on ?

00:52:54 phf: the general pattern is a bunch of read-* functions, that are all ultimately reduced to read-byte or read-sequence. the an (unsigned-byte 8) stream and return whatever datrastructure

00:53:08 phf: *they take

00:53:51 asciilifeform: it is nifty and very educational and mega-recommended to all students of the subject ^

00:55:15 punkman: I think the problem was I didn't have "realpath"

00:55:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185971 << wai wut, is kakobrekla now fearing gavinocalypse ?

00:55:27 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 21:35:10; kakobrekla: the switch happens when there is 90% of miners on the new chain (determined by checking last n blocks rolling window)

00:55:49 ben_vulpes: punkman: have you tried my a47.sh?

00:56:05 punkman: ben_vulpes: no

00:56:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1186009 << a modern (vs. the infrared diode + mirror mat '80s kind) optic mouse is a pretty hefty computer by itself. complete with bugs

00:56:53 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 21:48:42; mircea_popescu: meh. what causes optic mice to acquire pointer jitter ?

00:57:08 asciilifeform: (there was a proggy posted some years ago to use one as a camera!)

01:01:30 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186157 << mega-classic, and was discussed here before. including the fact that later bombmeisters have added the necessary detail of bar of soap and photocell (fluoresces under xray, sets off secondary detonator)

01:01:30 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 00:02:06; punkman: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/

01:02:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96700 @ 0.00051396 = 49.6999 BTC [-] {2}

01:05:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186241 << it has bug, i realized later, will die if finds testnet blocks

01:05:16 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 00:47:53; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that cutblock c util was very instructive, ty

01:05:17 asciilifeform: go, fix

01:06:10 punkman: !s photocell

01:06:11 assbot: 3 results for 'photocell' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=photocell

01:11:04 asciilifeform: phun phakt: you can't buy (new) halon fire extinguishers in usa, but you can get... freon (hcfc-123)

01:11:10 *: asciilifeform just unpacked a crate with one

01:13:21 asciilifeform: not cheap either. but you can still get! (until the envirowhiners get to it, too)

01:14:16 *: asciilifeform wonders what mircea_popescu keeps in his fire extinguisher

01:14:46 asciilifeform: (virgin tears? vodka ?)

01:15:22 *: trinque gets a funny feeling like he's watching a fast-forward replay of history itself whenever syncing a new blockchain

01:15:43 trinque: all the events which transpired which are marked by a particular transaction

01:15:52 asciilifeform: trinque: you're only ~really~ replaying history if you 'eatblock' from mircea_popescu's raw blkxxxxen

01:15:54 trinque: deedbot- fascinates me for precisely this reason

01:16:04 asciilifeform: otherwise you're merely reenacting history

01:16:10 trinque: good point

01:16:15 asciilifeform: like those folks who play out old battles with dummy rounds

01:17:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00051544 = 28.8131 BTC [+] {2}

01:18:54 trinque: pulled the trigger on this one just to see whether it'd fire up and work, but yeah, I'll use mircea_popescu's node for the gcov run

01:19:12 asciilifeform: trinque: what's in your set ?

01:19:25 trinque: I am currently syncing from deedbot-'s node

01:19:33 asciilifeform: i meant, what patches

01:19:47 trinque: oh, I am using stator with no additional patches

01:19:51 trinque: which others should I apply?

01:20:05 asciilifeform: trinque: ought to suffice

01:20:17 asciilifeform: if you want 'dumpblock' and 'eatblock', those are not included in stator

01:20:20 asciilifeform: gotta apply manually

01:21:43 trinque: k

01:22:11 asciilifeform: they don't really do much good in a 'civilian' bitcoin node, though

01:22:14 asciilifeform: more for laboratory work.

01:30:21 decimation: asciilifeform: it's lulzy that they regulate the shit of out freon for hvac, but use in fire extinguishers?

01:31:09 decimation: seems like co2 would be useful for many situations

01:37:39 punkman: ok, stator compiled successfully I think, anyone wanna give me a node IP?

01:41:26 mod6: trinque: this may help you in your journey: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/stator-buildlog-wDumpBlockAndEatBlockApplied.txt

01:41:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD75iv )

01:42:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107000 @ 0.00050961 = 54.5283 BTC [-] {3}

01:44:16 decimation: the 'realpath' thing is hilarious

01:44:49 decimation: why do half the distros use it, others use readlink

01:48:22 trinque: mod6: thank you sir

01:48:33 trinque: I'm going to grab some food, then read up on gcov

01:56:58 mod6: ok cool

01:58:05 mod6: no prob

02:06:56 DanyAlos: Sorry for the sudden change of topic:

02:07:07 DanyAlos: I was looking for #bitcoin-assets on this search engine (http://irc.netsplit.de/channels), and realized that it is not listed. Is there any particular reason for not being there?

02:16:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40900 @ 0.00051748 = 21.1649 BTC [+] {3}

02:19:10 mod6: 258k+

02:30:46 punkman: updated my mirror with thermonuke branch https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/commits/thermonuke

02:30:48 assbot: Commits · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HCmjCv )

02:33:32 asciilifeform: punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1184829

02:33:32 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 01:28:04; asciilifeform:

02:34:05 asciilifeform: decimation: co2 extinguishers, are, interestingly, very expensive (largely on account of their size. you need a great lot of it)

02:34:26 asciilifeform: also thermal shocks machinery

02:34:30 punkman: asciilifeform: it's working, good job on the stator

02:34:50 asciilifeform: punkman: it's an interim thing. still need to shoot glibc in the head

02:35:04 punkman: it complained about getaddrinfo, that's to be expected then?

02:35:21 asciilifeform: yes. but it never gets called in bitcoin

02:35:29 asciilifeform: (not in the dns-free variant)

02:35:43 punkman: yeah I tried to find it in the src, nothing there

02:35:51 asciilifeform: something in 'boost' theoretically can invoke it, or rather - gcc is too dumb to know that it will never happen

02:35:52 asciilifeform: so it whines

02:35:58 asciilifeform: and puts a null stub there

02:36:55 mats: DanyAlos: this channel has the flag +s, and so it is unlisted

02:41:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186324 << very good for folks reading patches. but remember, the patches ~are~ the canonical patches...

02:41:00 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 02:30:46; punkman: updated my mirror with thermonuke branch https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/commits/thermonuke

02:41:47 punkman: yeah I don't pull back from github, only push

02:42:25 asciilifeform: so long as it is used as a 'graphical diff', oughta be harmless

02:43:21 decimation: I'm syncing static node with some random ip, to see if I get the same blkxxxx.dat results

02:43:31 decimation: one of them on mircea's list

02:44:23 asciilifeform: the hash list ?

02:44:31 decimation: no his fraudsters post

02:44:34 asciilifeform: ah

02:45:35 decimation: asciilifeform: did we do a thread on 'headers only' block data?

02:45:47 asciilifeform: mentioned on several occasions

02:45:55 decimation: it occurs to me that it would be useful to broadcast a digest of a block in addition to the actual block data

02:46:08 decimation: mainly for users on bandwidth constrained channels

02:46:11 asciilifeform: that'd be the header, no ?

02:46:17 decimation: I guess.

02:46:22 asciilifeform: node already has option of asking for those

02:46:26 asciilifeform: it is part of the protocol

02:46:35 decimation: ah, I will read the code

02:46:46 asciilifeform: what i think would be considerably more useful is a provision for 'programmable checkpoints'

02:46:49 decimation: For something like shortwave broadcast, this is what you would want

02:46:59 asciilifeform: that is, an ascii file similar to my sums.txt.gz

02:47:12 asciilifeform: signed with pgp, verified by user, dropped in .bitcoin

02:47:46 decimation: aye, that would be useful for a 'starter pak' node

02:47:50 DanyAlos: mats: Thx

02:48:06 decimation: one wonders why this hasn't been done already, seems an obvious fix to 'node takes forever to sync'

02:48:17 asciilifeform: won't make'em sync any faster

02:48:37 asciilifeform: but will discourage some of the more hamfisted kinds of shitgnomery

02:48:39 decimation: oh you just mean the sums

02:48:41 asciilifeform: aha

02:48:53 decimation: yeah okay, that would be useful for double-checking chain integrity yes

02:49:40 decimation: for the headers thing, I'm imagining a scenario where someone is waiting for a transaction to clear

02:49:53 decimation: it would be useful to know when a new block is found, so you can ask your peers for a copy

02:50:58 asciilifeform: what's wrong with the old-fashioned 'inv' ?

02:51:45 decimation: I suppose if a peer is available, you could do that. but then you are only trusting one node's say

02:52:08 decimation: imagine three frequencies with three different nodes around the world, all with agreement on headers

02:56:05 decimation: at any rate, I'm imagining ways to sew parachutes before they are needed

02:56:36 asciilifeform: when else.

02:58:30 decimation: unfortunately with the effective bandwidth needed by the current blockchain makes global synchronization quite expensive

02:58:47 decimation: and internet-dependent

03:00:15 decimation: weird, the last four blocks had no transactions

03:00:25 asciilifeform: this may well be one of those things that can be made 'as simple as possible but not simpler'

03:01:24 asciilifeform: <decimation> weird, the last four blocks had no transactions << betcha somebody's playing with the 'tx selector' thing

03:01:44 asciilifeform: and botched horribly

03:02:02 decimation: I guess as long as they find a block that matches difficulty it will be valid

03:02:35 decimation: it would sure make it simpler to devise a big asic machine to find hashes if it doesn't need to bother with transactions

03:03:02 asciilifeform: not really

03:03:20 decimation: although you would give up on fees

03:03:22 asciilifeform: given the merkle tree thing, tx's don't really add to the load

03:04:04 decimation: ah yeah good point

03:04:15 asciilifeform: but it would stand to reason that miners will eventually exert more tx fee pressure

03:04:23 asciilifeform: perhaps this is already happening.

03:04:56 decimation: the big blocks are running nearly a mb or so

03:05:00 asciilifeform: at any rate, various folks have mined empties before. afaik, it is not publicly known precisely why.

03:05:37 asciilifeform: decimation: bozos are stuffing'em full of garbage tx, in an attempt to prop up gavinism

03:05:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90320 @ 0.00051341 = 46.3712 BTC [-] {2}

03:09:03 decimation: asciilifeform: maybe the naked blocks are a counterpoint :)

03:10:38 decimation: 5 blocks. 4 are attributed to f2pool, one to antpool by blockchain.info

03:11:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13830 @ 0.00051629 = 7.1403 BTC [+]

03:11:22 punkman: didn't those guys want 8mb blocks?

03:15:34 *: asciilifeform kinda wants a wall-sized callgraph of therealbitcoin

03:15:39 asciilifeform: possibly using http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel/projects/codeviz

03:15:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NCXyX5 )

03:15:47 asciilifeform: nubbins` ^^^

03:15:58 decimation: asciilifeform: I've tried printing such things before, even on a big plotter the results are disappointing

03:16:05 asciilifeform: how come ?

03:16:20 decimation: plotter is usually limited to 4 ft rolls I think

03:16:28 decimation: so you gotta make multiple passes

03:16:47 asciilifeform: local printery has 4ft inkjets

03:17:11 decimation: sure, but you gotta spend time massaging the graph into something legible even at that size

03:17:21 decimation: what comes out of 'dot' tends to be fucktarded with complex graphs

03:18:01 asciilifeform: so far i'm utterly failing to even get 'codeviz' to build.

03:18:11 asciilifeform: it seems to insist on downloading an ancient gcc and fails

03:18:17 decimation: heh

03:18:24 asciilifeform: mod6, ben_vulpes ^^^ who wants to try

03:18:36 decimation: to be clear, my experience is mainly with feeding dot such things, not from codeviz

03:18:46 asciilifeform: i want the fucking callgraph

03:18:48 asciilifeform: on my wall

03:18:57 asciilifeform: tired of looking at the thing through a keyhole

03:19:09 decimation: I think you can massage valgrind to dump callgraph

03:19:22 asciilifeform: want static callgraph

03:19:27 asciilifeform: rather than one which depends on a walk

03:19:57 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, ben_vulpes ^^^ who wants to try << i might be able to give it a go later this weekend ... maybe.

03:20:31 decimation: as in, all possible routes into and out of functions?

03:20:45 mod6: any idea how old of a version is required?

03:21:01 asciilifeform: mod6: it's 4.something but dies because not found on the gnu ftp

03:21:23 asciilifeform: http://www.gson.org/egypt/egypt.html << another tool

03:21:24 assbot: egypt - create call graph from gcc RTL dump ... ( http://bit.ly/1NCXWVC )

03:21:26 asciilifeform: not tried yet.

03:21:49 mod6: ah, i can give it a go with something as old as like 4.5.4 for sure.

03:22:02 asciilifeform: http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/html/Shot3Large.html << and yet another.

03:22:03 assbot: KCachegrind ... ( http://bit.ly/1NCXYgf )

03:22:03 mod6: maybe even 4.0.4 (if it'll build)

03:23:44 asciilifeform: ^ refuses to build on my boxes also

03:23:47 asciilifeform: qt retardation

03:26:45 mod6: as always :]

03:27:11 decimation: the egypt thing appears to have limited support for C++

03:28:11 cazalla: apparently network forked or some business

03:31:38 punkman: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c2cnj/f2pool_is_not_properly_validating_blocks_their/

03:31:39 assbot: F2Pool is not properly validating blocks, their fork is winning temporarily. SPV clients and Blockchain.info are inaccurate : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kzrh5m )

03:31:42 punkman: shitgnomes strike again?

03:32:16 decimation: why are they 'inaccurate'

03:32:54 mats: o calamity

03:34:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10653 @ 0.00051757 = 5.5137 BTC [+]

03:35:13 decimation: it does seem blockchain.info and insight.bitpay.com have two different chains

03:36:13 punkman: "BIP66 protocol rule changes have gone active in part thanks to Antpool and F2Pool's support of it - but their pool appears to not actually be enforcing the new rules, and is now mining invalid blocks."

03:36:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84234 @ 0.00051578 = 43.4462 BTC [-] {3}

03:36:38 punkman: "SPV nodes and Bitcoin Core prior to 0.10.0 may get false confirmations, possibly >6 blocks long, until this is resolved."

03:42:13 mats: so you're saying now is the time to fleece bitpay

03:43:04 decimation: here's the bip66 diff https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5713/files

03:43:06 assbot: Implement BIP66 by sipa · Pull Request #5713 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzsolH )

03:48:03 mircea_popescu: sooo... we splitted hjuh ?

03:48:31 decimation: looks like it yes

03:48:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66300 @ 0.0005095 = 33.7799 BTC [-] {2}

03:48:46 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

03:48:49 gribble: Current Blocks: 363736 | Current Difficulty: 4.940201493122746E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 364895 | Next Difficulty In: 1159 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

03:48:56 mircea_popescu: i see 736 throughout

03:49:00 mats: it stalls

03:49:06 decimation: and apparently several folks fucked it up too

03:49:26 mircea_popescu: hm.

03:49:36 decimation: so this 'IsSuperMajority' code is totally absent in

03:50:22 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> they'd just all happen to be employees of the house. << if you only divulge winning tickets you get the natural occurence of winners + extras.

03:50:47 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: anybody interested in multiprocessorizing bitcoin sig check ? << i don't see the benefit.

03:51:14 mircea_popescu: decimation old nodes are all fine.

03:51:19 mircea_popescu: apparently new nodes are all shit.

03:51:27 mircea_popescu: news at 12:55, which happens to be the time here.

03:52:21 mod6: heheh

03:52:32 decimation: do they reject blocks because the nVersion = 1?

03:52:56 mircea_popescu: <assbot> Raising Darwin's Consciousness << all this "consciousness" bs reads to me like direct pastiche from "class consciousness" or however that nonsense was translated to english

03:54:05 mircea_popescu: i don't run one so nfi what its problem would be. ion all likeliness something stupid.

03:55:09 mats: looking forward to seeing the post mortem in the morning

03:55:17 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> of the active users. << well, like a dozen or so people, spent a month in game last month. so like, 2 hrs / day or somesuch

03:55:21 mats: and hopefully discount coins

03:59:33 mircea_popescu: heh we actually are forked nao. i dun see any such 738

04:00:08 decimation: yeah I think we were forked a long time ago actually

04:00:23 decimation: this getconsensus stuff is lulzy

04:03:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186461 << sync at line speed

04:03:00 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 03:50:47; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: anybody interested in multiprocessorizing bitcoin sig check ? << i don't see the benefit.

04:03:04 asciilifeform: is the benefit.

04:03:12 asciilifeform: having to wait for cpu on a 16 core box is retarded.

04:03:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, seems the chain actually forked.

04:03:20 asciilifeform: i see

04:03:31 mircea_popescu: none of my nodes verify the imaginary 737-738 blockchain.info claims to exist.

04:05:06 phf: somebody was saying bitcoind doesn't build on a 32 bit system?

04:05:17 asciilifeform: phf: pogo is 32bit

04:05:23 asciilifeform: builds beautifully

04:05:27 mircea_popescu: accepted connection

04:05:28 mircea_popescu: version message: version 70002, blocks=363738

04:05:46 phf: ah

04:06:40 mircea_popescu: 363738 16 minutes 320 4,982.79 BTC BitFury 180.66

04:06:40 mircea_popescu: 363737 21 minutes 166 3,059.67 BTC BW.COM 65.25

04:06:50 mircea_popescu: anyone actually see these ?

04:06:51 asciilifeform: axe-time, sword-time

04:07:54 mircea_popescu: seems so.

04:08:05 mircea_popescu: i guess they eventually settled on pretending it's an accident or what ?

04:08:24 ben_vulpes: FORK

04:08:25 ben_vulpes: FORK?

04:08:27 ben_vulpes: FORK!

04:08:35 ben_vulpes: forkforkforkforkfork

04:08:36 asciilifeform: 0.8 sees the phork

04:08:43 ben_vulpes: ph0rk

04:08:49 asciilifeform: phr0k

04:09:04 mircea_popescu: i dun see another peer other than the 148 above that claims to have 738

04:09:11 ben_vulpes: r4ngn4phr0k

04:09:16 mircea_popescu: [ This is the only occurrence ]

04:09:30 mircea_popescu: anyone see one ?

04:09:45 *: asciilifeform envious of mircea_popescu's spiffy ph0rkdebugger

04:09:55 mircea_popescu: ( cat debug.log | grep -B3 "blocks=363738" if nothing else)

04:10:22 asciilifeform: but yes, i've had sync scrolling for says, and seeing quite a few 'nonstandard tx, rejected...'

04:10:36 mircea_popescu: yes, but those happen all teh time

04:10:40 asciilifeform: yes.

04:11:47 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/blocks << apparently they orphaned everything past bw.com's https://blockchain.info/block-height/363730

04:11:47 assbot: Blocks mined on 04/07/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfKfp )

04:11:48 assbot: Bitcoin Blocks At Height 363730 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfLQv )

04:12:21 mircea_popescu: looks a lot like a withholding chain attack tbh

04:12:24 asciilifeform: 363741 on 0.8

04:12:35 mircea_popescu: note the orphaned is 8 blocks long

04:12:39 mircea_popescu: the "lonmger chain" 6.

04:12:49 mircea_popescu: sorry, i mean 6 and 5.

04:13:11 mircea_popescu: anbd how teh fuck does it continue on an orphan block anyway

04:13:36 ben_vulpes: "However, this also means they're not checking the new BIP66 rule, and are now mining invalid blocks because of it. (another miner happened to create an invalid, non-BIP66 respecting block) If you're not using Bitcoin Core, you might be accepting transactions that won't be on the longest valid chain when all this is fixed." << curious to see if 0.5.whatever comes out on top at the end of this

04:14:18 ben_vulpes: my position being "if your notion of a valid block has to patch 0.5.*, get fucked."

04:14:24 asciilifeform: ^

04:14:36 decimation: yeah but this apparently happened awhile ago

04:14:44 decimation: when they put the IsSuperMajority code check in

04:14:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes tjhat's the only position.

04:14:57 asciilifeform: i did say, no?

04:14:58 ben_vulpes: "The majority of hashing power is mining an invalid chain - it's not going to "win" - they're just wasting their effort." << euheuheuheuheuheheehueheuheuheehu

04:15:02 mircea_popescu: "new bip66 rule" my foot.

04:15:06 asciilifeform: shitgnomatic bitcoin has been a fork since gavin turned

04:15:08 asciilifeform: and likely prior.

04:15:17 mircea_popescu: anyway.

04:15:35 ben_vulpes: simple rehash of the "let's probe network cohesion strength" fork

04:15:38 asciilifeform: a fork that hasn't sprung yet is still fok

04:15:39 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wait, the usg dept of stupid is now on the record that miners don't, after all, decide ?

04:15:40 asciilifeform: fork

04:15:44 ben_vulpes: so what, f2pool and phrenz dies next week?

04:15:44 mircea_popescu: can they make up their mind or something ?

04:15:50 ben_vulpes: nigga pleez

04:16:06 mircea_popescu: anyway, foundation ppl : plox to make a statement on this matter

04:16:25 ben_vulpes: "Except BIP 66 received 95% support from the relevant group (miners). " << ehuehuehehueeueueueueueeeee

04:16:27 mircea_popescu: gotta explain to the masses 1) how irresponsible it is to empower scammers, whjether they call themselves "pirate", "Gavin" or anything else

04:16:33 mircea_popescu: and 2) retty much that.

04:16:43 *: ben_vulpes sighs

04:16:44 asciilifeform: 3) не шагу назад

04:16:54 asciilifeform: (tm) (r) (stalin)

04:17:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: translation plox?

04:17:10 asciilifeform: 'not one step back'

04:17:11 mircea_popescu: not a step bac

04:17:35 asciilifeform: the title of a 'papal bull' he signed during the war

04:18:02 mircea_popescu: BIP66 protocol rule changes have gone active in part thanks to Antpool and F2Pool's support of it - but their pool appears to not actually be enforcing the new rules, and is now mining invalid blocks << lulzy.

04:18:08 mircea_popescu: "we just sittin' here noddin'"

04:18:58 ben_vulpes: Bitcoin 0.5.3 is the canonical reference implementation. If a fork occurs and one side validates on the 0.5.3 codebase while the other does not, the chain that validates under 0.5.3 is the only valid chain.

04:19:02 mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Core (after 0.10.0) rejects these invalid blocks, but a lot of other stuff doesn't. SPV Bitcoinj wallets do no validation what-so-ever, blindly following the longest chain. blockchain.info doesn't appear to do validation as well; who knows what else? <<

04:19:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, todd is right. the only way this affects us is that we don't really give much of a shit.

04:19:22 ben_vulpes: mod6 if you feel compelled to elaborate on this, go ahead.

04:19:24 mircea_popescu: let 'em figure out how to do soft forks or w/e.

04:19:32 ben_vulpes: i have a porch of meatwot and babes that actually need attending to.

04:19:37 ben_vulpes: frantic action is for the impotent.

04:19:53 mircea_popescu: i have nfi how the power rangers imagine they'll manage a hardfork when they can't as much as get a "relevant support" softwork that's fairly uncontroversial.

04:20:23 ben_vulpes: i've not yet accepted this soft/hardfork duality.

04:20:29 asciilifeform: ^

04:20:38 ben_vulpes: things either validate under 0.5.whatever or they don't.

04:20:41 mircea_popescu: well, any people can at any time decide to narrow the rules. this makes some sense.

04:20:41 decimation: they claim this is a softfork

04:20:47 mircea_popescu: hard fork is enlarging the rules.

04:20:54 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all thios would validate under .5

04:20:57 decimation: actually I think this is gonna be fine on 0.5

04:21:05 mircea_popescu: the idea is they don't want to see some stuff that validates anymore

04:21:10 mircea_popescu: this is no skin off my back, who cares.

04:21:15 ben_vulpes: too bad, fuck them.

04:21:15 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> Bitcoin 0.5.3 is the canonical reference implementation. If a fork occurs and one side validates on the 0.5.3 codebase while the other does not, the chain that validates under 0.5.3 is the only valid chain. << I have nothing further to add to this at this time.

04:21:15 decimation: the problem is that 0.5.3 blocks generated by 0.5.3 won't validate if those IfSuperMajority rules check

04:21:24 mircea_popescu: decimation provided their "mine support" actually materializes

04:21:26 mircea_popescu: otherwise, no.

04:21:34 decimation: well actually yes

04:21:43 decimation: because they already did a 'softfork' on the nVersion

04:21:51 decimation: I'm not sure if there are enough blocks to trigger it

04:22:08 ben_vulpes: T.I.A.S. (tm) (r) (#emacs)

04:22:50 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: anyone can narrow the rules, but whether that's "bitcoin" is an open question.

04:24:44 mircea_popescu: i dun see it. the rule is "come to school dressed". if you all agree to wear skirts or all agree to wear cardigans, it's still school.

04:24:51 *: ben_vulpes is also curious to see how much "political capital" the derpdation burns today

04:25:10 decimation: if (block.nVersion < 2 && IsSuperMajority(2, pindexPrev, consensusParams.nMajorityRejectBlockOutdated, consensusParams))

04:25:12 mircea_popescu: o yea. that's part's gonna be epic.

04:25:22 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes knows full well that it'll be blamed on 'wreckers'

04:25:29 ben_vulpes: primarily, me.

04:25:40 mircea_popescu: lmao right.

04:25:45 mircea_popescu: get out.

04:25:48 ben_vulpes: :P

04:25:58 ben_vulpes: i never did anything, we all know that. joke's almost too easy.

04:26:41 ben_vulpes: "Updating to the latest when what you have works is how you break things.

04:26:43 ben_vulpes: "

04:26:44 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is jit to lay kakobrekla's wonderments to rest.

04:26:49 mircea_popescu: happy pappy ?

04:26:52 ben_vulpes: "They're not running full nodes because the current 500KB blocks are too big.

04:26:53 ben_vulpes: "

04:26:55 ben_vulpes: ehueh

04:27:02 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:27:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32404 @ 0.00051768 = 16.7749 BTC [+]

04:27:22 ben_vulpes: reddit, for all the silencing and muting of the actual bitcoin foundation, seems to be turning the corner on sense

04:27:26 mircea_popescu: this is such a goatfucked moment for teh schmucks...

04:27:43 ben_vulpes: "Most likely this is caused by broken-by-design-for-profit mining code, but none of their stuff is open source AFAIK. Maybe more details will be known with time."

04:27:52 ben_vulpes: << lukejr

04:28:12 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell lukejr listen you gotta stop it wiht this "i can tell miners what's right and wrong" bs

04:28:12 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:28:35 mircea_popescu: why ? he's a god fearing rotinculo from wisconsin or whatever.

04:28:58 mircea_popescu: on the record having lied for profit and all that good stuff, but why should anything matter.

04:29:13 ben_vulpes: man all i can do is nail this coffin closed

04:29:18 ben_vulpes: one goddamn nail at a time

04:29:28 ben_vulpes: hey kakobrekla how much can i cram into a rating field?

04:29:30 asciilifeform: wait for'em all to get in

04:29:33 asciilifeform: before nailin'.

04:29:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nodeps!

04:30:00 ben_vulpes: i want a man in the ground, i don't make that dependent on his wife squirting or w/e

04:30:43 mircea_popescu: Uh oh all these block explorers just flipped over to the invalid chain:

04:30:43 mircea_popescu: http://btc.blockr.io/ <-- (seems to be flip flopping between the two chains)

04:30:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8L )

04:30:44 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/

04:30:44 assbot: Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8O )

04:30:44 mircea_popescu: https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/

04:30:46 assbot: Bitcoin Block Exporer | BlockCypher ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8Q )

04:30:46 mircea_popescu: Explorers on the good chain:

04:30:46 mircea_popescu: https://insight.bitpay.com/

04:30:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBoBM )

04:30:47 mircea_popescu: https://chain.com/

04:30:48 assbot: Bitcoin API - Chain ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBoBO )

04:30:48 mircea_popescu: loller

04:31:49 mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/fFMZr for later.

04:31:51 assbot: PSA: F2Pool is mining INVALID blocks : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBqJG )

04:32:07 mircea_popescu: "Current status: F2Pool still broken; Antpool fixed (but no promise they won't intentionally re-break in the future)." is really all that one needs to lol

04:32:25 decimation: this is the dumbest fucking thing I've seen in all my years with bitcoin

04:32:53 decimation: if there's any reason why bitcoin will never be adopted, it's this kind of shit

04:32:54 ben_vulpes: "re-break"?

04:32:58 mircea_popescu: nah, the "we'll move to this new db system one schmuck that gofer'd coffee at google wrote with his chest hairs and nobody tested in any way" was the stupidest sahit

04:33:10 ben_vulpes: meaning adopt the power ranger braindamage again?

04:33:29 mircea_popescu: but the "we'll make wallet a plaintext file" and the "we'll target windows" and the "you know what's better than boost ? qt!" were pretty epic turn points too

04:33:33 ben_vulpes: shinohai: you around?

04:33:37 mod6: shinohai: is your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node up to dayte?

04:33:51 mircea_popescu: i don't think any sane nodes can be up to date atm, until this resolves.

04:34:08 asciilifeform: i doubt anything can ever beat the 'i'll use c++, and on vs for good measure' moment

04:34:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, having been duly amused for the evening, i retire to my eulorean empire.

04:34:21 ben_vulpes: trinque: do you have a RI up-to-date?

04:34:28 trinque: errr what's up to date?

04:34:33 asciilifeform: i got one that's a few hrs away from sync

04:34:34 trinque: I have a stator build

04:34:52 mod6: the hope was to find if he can verify if v0.5.3.1 rejected or accepted the blocks in question; 363738

04:34:55 ben_vulpes: synced

04:35:01 trinque: ah no sir

04:35:08 trinque: just deleted muh blockchain to resync

04:35:13 mod6: mine is currently sync'ing against mp's seed.

04:35:16 ben_vulpes: plz foar not to buhlete!

04:35:22 trinque: I have others

04:35:26 ben_vulpes: cp ~/.bitcoin.bak/

04:35:51 trinque: this laptop has not infinite gigs

04:36:06 ben_vulpes: ah mhm.

04:36:21 ben_vulpes: how's btcd handling r4gn4phr0k?

04:37:14 trinque: the who and the whatnow?

04:37:38 trinque: was syncing pretty quick, but I stopped and deleted for to be syncing against mircea_popescu's node

04:38:01 trinque: got to like 150k I think before I stopped

04:38:11 ben_vulpes: no no the conformal impl

04:38:18 ben_vulpes: i thought you were running a conformal impl somewhere

04:38:26 trinque: I am, how is it handling what though

04:38:29 trinque: you got too 1337 on me

04:38:32 ben_vulpes: there's a ph0rk in progress

04:38:35 trinque: oh!

04:38:40 trinque: lemme see muh logz

04:38:50 ben_vulpes: check ur lawgz bru

04:38:58 trinque: yeh just got home

04:39:11 ben_vulpes: i'm nominally on vaycay but...panzer

04:39:19 trinque: REORGANIZE

04:39:27 trinque: quite a bit of that.

04:39:28 ben_vulpes: euhue

04:39:33 trinque: EXTEND FORK

04:39:39 *: ben_vulpes has never seen a reorg happen live

04:39:40 trinque: would the logs be interesting in any way?

04:39:45 trinque: can paste

04:39:57 mod6: sure, dpaste 'em up for maxtime

04:40:01 trinque: kk

04:40:02 ben_vulpes: foar posterity and posteriors

04:40:57 asciilifeform: gavin alert out

04:41:02 ben_vulpes: ugh man i kinda hate this

04:41:14 ben_vulpes: "the chain that is the real chain is the chain that verifies under 0.5.3"

04:41:35 ben_vulpes: this is almost as bad as defining a word with the word to be defined

04:41:54 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we're doing war, not mathematics

04:42:14 asciilifeform: enemy is defined by pointing 'that one'

04:42:29 asciilifeform: 'the fella shooting our way'

04:44:34 trinque: man chrome sucks at big pastes

04:44:41 ben_vulpes: trinque: host it y'self.

04:45:25 decimation: 'you may not be interested in a fork, but...'

04:45:36 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, mod6, asciilifeform: i don't see a reason to make this much more than 25 words. do you think much detail or polemic is necessary here?

04:45:57 asciilifeform: 25 oughta do

04:46:13 asciilifeform: 'who comes to us with a fork, shall die by the fork'

04:46:13 decimation: better to say less until we know wtf is going on

04:46:45 ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/02M3YRK.txt

04:46:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eqM1hS )

04:46:55 *: mod6 looks

04:47:14 ben_vulpes: perhaps a hash of the codebase instead of the semver crap?

04:47:40 *: ben_vulpes is somewhat at sea w/r/t propaganda semantics

04:47:46 decimation: I would say that on its face, bip66 isn't such a terrible idea

04:47:55 decimation: but the way it's being forced is pretty stupid

04:47:58 trinque: http://dpaste.com/2KR17VF.txt << btcd log of 2015/07/03 fork

04:47:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eqM7Gq )

04:47:59 asciilifeform: if gavinists bring cure for cancer - it is bad idea.

04:48:03 asciilifeform: this is an absolute.

04:48:17 mod6: s/must be considered/is a/ ?

04:48:29 decimation: yeah, it's not the bip66 issue, it's the mechanism they inserted for forcing change

04:48:32 mod6: er /is an/

04:48:36 ben_vulpes: mod6: myeah entirely.

04:49:01 asciilifeform: 'bip66' is a grappling hook, yes

04:49:07 ben_vulpes: well this signature issue is tricky as shit already - openssl is already blowing up validating the chain with anything other than...

04:49:23 ben_vulpes: what was the version number of openssl we determined necessary to validate the full chain?

04:49:33 mod6: 1.0.1g

04:49:41 ben_vulpes: ty, 1.0.1g

04:49:44 mod6: otherwise we had issues on 168`001 iirc

04:49:58 *: mod6 doublechecks the SoBAs

04:50:13 asciilifeform: stator built on 1.0.1g.

04:50:16 asciilifeform: for this reason.

04:50:18 decimation: 'please sir, accept my resonable patch in exchange for agreeing to forever accept what 'our mechanism' brings'

04:50:45 asciilifeform: this is why shitgnomes are to be written out of the script permanently and unconditionally

04:50:51 decimation: although as I've noted, they already incremented this machine

04:50:52 mod6: yeah here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000055.html

04:50:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCpJW )

04:50:57 asciilifeform: regardless of what they bring, or claim to bring, or promise to bring, to the table

04:51:03 asciilifeform: political, rather than technical decision

04:51:34 asciilifeform: (for as long as it carries under 'technical', the weasels can whine, wheedle, emit 'reasonable reasonings', even persuade the persuadable)

04:51:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00052134 = 4.2229 BTC [+]

04:51:45 asciilifeform: political - and absolute. like blade of guillotine.

04:52:08 decimation: asciilifeform: I can already hear jwz saying that he doesn't want politics, just to do the right thing

04:52:08 ben_vulpes: mod6, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/367HMKF.txt

04:52:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCwFj )

04:52:25 ben_vulpes: must be considered-> is an

04:52:35 mod6: nice

04:53:08 ben_vulpes: an informal signoff from y'bosses would be nice before i deposit this in the white porcelain turdotron

04:53:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33230 @ 0.0005207 = 17.3029 BTC [-] {2}

04:54:00 *: ben_vulpes was looking through recent "bitcoin-core" pull requests, found many integration testing scripts

04:54:12 ben_vulpes: looks like the shitgnomes have been working overtime to address my complaints.

04:54:42 *: ben_vulpes is amused, but not honored. if ye'd only had actual management once upon a time, this'd not be a notable achievement.

04:54:59 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gavinandresen ^^

04:55:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:55:10 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985338 < I think this is what he was talking about (nVersion)

04:55:10 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 02:48:11; Luke-Jr: it can't, if you don't have the 0.8.1 hardfork patched in..

04:55:52 decimation: err, no that was the bdb lock thing

04:56:05 mod6: ok mp says he can see signing that statement ben_vulpes. go ahead, he'll even sign later when he gets on his other box.

04:56:42 mod6: fire at will.

04:56:55 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985356 << this still hurts, every time i see it

04:56:55 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 02:59:30; mod6: it was selected because "reasons"

04:57:05 asciilifeform: '...let the motherfucker burn'

04:57:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33267 @ 0.00052134 = 17.3434 BTC [+]

04:58:38 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> << this still hurts, every time i see it << awe!

05:00:50 ben_vulpes: ah fml

05:00:57 mod6: whatup?

05:00:58 ben_vulpes: deedbot wru

05:01:14 ben_vulpes: trinque: whar deedbot

05:01:58 decimation: where did this consensus shit enter into the code base?

05:01:59 mod6: anyway, you think i should have just called him out instead of saying "reasons"?

05:02:37 mod6: or what hurts?

05:02:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84850 @ 0.00052155 = 44.2535 BTC [+] {2}

05:03:09 ben_vulpes: "reasons" being that i wrote a blog post saying "i don't think much happened after this"

05:03:50 ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000114.html << ahaha fattest fingers.

05:03:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCYUe )

05:04:35 mod6: ah...

05:04:46 mod6: yeah, i should have just pointed him to your blog.

05:04:55 mod6: my bad.

05:05:20 mod6: lol

05:05:35 ben_vulpes: those hafta be the 2 derpiest typos of my life.

05:05:43 ben_vulpes: anyways

05:10:35 trinque: awaken.

05:11:24 trinque: ben_vulpes: ^

05:11:44 trinque: ben_vulpes: guess what else I'll be rewriting in cl at some point.

05:12:02 trinque: the golang part gets into some dumb state where it wont reconnect.

05:13:25 mod6: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1P0JEFS.txt

05:13:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eqOLMh )

05:13:26 deedbot-: accepted: 1

05:13:46 decimation: at any rate this whole rejection machine can be permanantly jammed by setting nversion to MAX_INT

05:16:40 ben_vulpes: deedbot-: http://cascadianhacker.com/ph0rk.txt

05:16:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eqP2yI )

05:16:42 deedbot-: accepted: 1

05:20:53 decimation: I'm fairly certain that if were used to mine a block with nVerion=1 it would be rejected

05:21:28 decimation: as more than 950 blocks have passed since the first instance of the IsSuperMajority machine being used

05:22:20 mod6: thanks ben_vulpes

05:22:41 mod6: i put it out there on derp-media too

05:26:45 decimation: I would also note that the bitcoind github commits and comments lie about the IsSuperMajority machine. They say that the mandatory rejection won't take effect until 95% of the blocks are incremented - but in fact it's only 950

05:28:53 decimation: 950 out of the last 1000 blocks

05:29:11 decimation: hardly 'consensus' in view of the 363000 block history of bitcoin

05:32:44 decimation: which amounts to one week of 'voting window'

05:32:51 decimation: one week out of years of doing things a certain way

05:38:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16414 @ 0.0005214 = 8.5583 BTC [-] {2}

05:42:44 decimation: at any rate this mechanism dates back to 2012 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1525 and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1526

05:42:45 assbot: Use CTransaction/CBlock version numbers for smoother upgrades by gavinandresen · Pull Request #1525 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LNKrVq )

05:42:47 assbot: Transition to requiring block height in block coinbases by gavinandresen · Pull Request #1526 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LNKrVs )

05:45:39 decimation: which would have been released in 0.7rc1 roughly

05:48:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.0005145 = 26.2395 BTC [-] {3}

05:49:38 midnightmagic: decimation: 1000 blocks is a couple percent of all work done ever on the entire blockchain since inception, and the current hashrate could rewrite the entire history up to something like august 2014 in somewhere close to the span of time that non-vote took place over, times a very small number. :( unfortunately.

05:50:03 ben_vulpes: oh look

05:50:10 decimation: this machine is braindamaged in my opinion

05:50:22 ben_vulpes: a midnightmagic

05:50:24 decimation: at any rate, it's not like you couldn't jam it by changing nversion to an arbitrary value

05:50:33 ben_vulpes: decimation: srsly.

05:50:42 ben_vulpes: magic numbers and magic thinking.

05:50:51 decimation: to spite, you could even pick a value between 4 and MAX_INT randomly

05:50:54 ben_vulpes: another value for derpfiguration.

05:50:58 ben_vulpes: euhue

05:51:19 midnightmagic: i'm just saying that it sounds like a little bit in comparison to both time, and integerial block height, but actual work-wise it a significant chunk. again, very unfortunately.

05:51:26 phf: ha, stator build on openbsd i386

05:51:49 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: this is a basic feature of integrals and curves.

05:52:29 ben_vulpes: lol 'integerial'

05:52:48 decimation: midnightmagic: the "amount of work" argument utterly fails to impress

05:53:19 decimation: also, it's probably not going to be true in a year or two as 14 nm asics fan out and become barely economic

05:54:09 midnightmagic: that is the inverse of what will happen as more-efficient mining equipment arrives.

05:54:53 decimation: also, your argument would also be true if nMajorityWindow=10000 or 100000

05:55:59 ben_vulpes: decimation is ready to bet against diff increases?

05:56:16 decimation: I think it's likely to level out in the coming year or two, maybe longer

05:56:23 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic is ready to work more student exercises?

05:56:43 decimation: unless someone can tell me exactly how they are going to 'get efficient'

05:56:58 ben_vulpes: efficiency is not a prerequisite for fab runs.

05:57:13 decimation: no, but it is for profitability in the face of non-zero electric rates

05:57:45 ben_vulpes: since when has midnightmagic's employer given a shit about profitability?

05:58:28 midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: #trollfail. That sort of thing doesn't work on me, especially when it comes from someone like you.

05:58:47 ben_vulpes: lol and yet you bit

05:59:20 midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: You would call a bite any response. That is the fundamental nature of #trollfail.

06:00:02 ben_vulpes: y'ever hear the line: "don't feed the trolls"?

06:00:05 midnightmagic: Regardless, a 1000-block window is not unreasonable if one accepts that mining hashpower is the vote that counts.

06:00:14 decimation: I don't accept it.

06:00:33 decimation: nor does this argument hold for 1000, because the same argument can be made for 50000

06:01:05 ben_vulpes: i don't accept it either.

06:01:54 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: you make this mistake of letting the plants control the conversation. "what's the right magic number of blocks to signal fork acceptance?" answer: there isn't. there is only the long-term behavior of the network.

06:02:13 midnightmagic: Correct. I am saying your complaint about it being unreasonable is illogical by any measure of the mining work done: there *is* no other meaningful window, or measurement, of the bitcoin network without shifting to PoS or DPoS. But if you want to do that, fork bitshares.

06:02:37 ben_vulpes: this moronic 'acceptance-in-blockchain' algo doesn't work, because hashpower can revert and rewrite an arbitrarily-lengthed blockchain.

06:03:05 midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: On that at least, we agree. I agree with that: the current hashrate is as illegitimate as a vote of private keys would be in determining a softfork. What else is there?

06:03:07 ben_vulpes: 's just no window.

06:03:19 ben_vulpes: there's* just no window.

06:03:59 ben_vulpes: just the network. that, only that, no more, no less.

06:04:20 midnightmagic: Thus, backing up further, there is the legitimacy of BIP66 at all. If it is not legitimate, we have a consensus code failure every time openssl decides they want to change behaviour.

06:04:41 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: art thou familiar with the 1.0.1g issue?

06:04:57 decimation: you are subjugating human judgement to unthinking machinery - this can never be reasonable

06:05:12 ben_vulpes: openssl changed behavior. bitcoin did not.

06:06:01 decimation: midnightmagic: who is holding a gun to your head, requiring you to update openssl?

06:06:14 midnightmagic: I'm familiar with the DER-encoding change they made, and I'm aware of, if not familiar with, every major bug in openssl since 2001 or so. Could I draw a line between releases that had bugs and releases that fixed them? No. Not even close.

06:06:56 decimation: why isn't anyone seriously attempting to extract the open-ssl code paths used by bitcoin?

06:06:56 ben_vulpes: bitcoind's built with openssl versions after 1.0.1g don't sync.

06:07:17 ben_vulpes: this, i gather, is news to you.

06:07:22 ben_vulpes: bitcoinds*

06:07:27 midnightmagic: decimation: Nobody, of course. Then we go back to static builds and what happens when an actual bug hits and the fork is so old that the fix doesn't backport? How divergent are we willing to accept?

06:07:44 midnightmagic: lol. No, it's not news to me. Yes, I already knew that.

06:08:16 decimation: midnightmagic: the cure to that problem is not forcing changes of an uncertain nature, but to gain certainty in the codebase

06:09:18 decimation: why wouldn't we want a static bitcoind that is correct for all time?

06:09:29 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: you were probably just on the cusp of killing hitler too.

06:11:14 ben_vulpes: <decimation> why wouldn't we want a static bitcoind that is correct for all time? << we do. midnightmagic does not.

06:11:21 midnightmagic: well, then we have the forking risk I mentioned above: what happens when the openssl people make a fix or the internet finds a bug in the component that we depend on? If we sit on 0.9.8 or whatever the version was before those idiots got their hands on it and started adding malicious exploits, what happens?

06:11:41 decimation: understand the code, make sure it doesn't happen

06:11:55 decimation: pretending like others are there to solve your problems seems like a poor approach

06:11:57 midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: You can keep guessing what I mean without actually asking me, but you're no less wrong.

06:12:26 ben_vulpes: decimation: no but you see we need to slurp the spitoon because if we don't something terrifying that we can't reason about won't happen!

06:13:03 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: no less wrong than what now?

06:13:25 midnightmagic: I'm not pretending that; I'm explicitly saying, divergence implies there is no reason to even *use* openssl at that point. strip out the components, use them, skip openssl entirely, and, I guess, trust in your ability to monitor the progenitor of your codebase for bugs that *explicitly affect your consensus-critical code*.

06:13:58 decimation: agreed, except "consenus-critical" means "compatible with what satoshi wrote" in my book

06:14:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159666 @ 0.00052679 = 84.1105 BTC [+] {5}

06:14:05 midnightmagic: or, do what sipa did and write a secp256k1 lib because the openssl people don't give a shit they're wrecking dependencies.

06:14:44 midnightmagic: because, like I said, I think some people in there appear to be adding exploitable code with absurd frequency.

06:14:48 decimation: again, nobody is forcing anybody use a version of openssl they don't want to use.

06:16:19 midnightmagic: ehh. satoshi's code, bugs and all. we could also stick with bdb and accept the quirks like the old accidental fork post-leveldb.

06:16:46 midnightmagic: .. which appears to have been a gavin/hearn originated bug.

06:16:48 ben_vulpes: it's all well and good to say "strip out the components", i just don't buy that that's possible.

06:16:59 decimation: his code sucks, I don't deny, but it's the closest thing to a spec that we have

06:17:09 decimation: start there and iterate the code toward perfection

06:17:40 decimation: ideally, writing a damn spec first

06:18:37 midnightmagic: it's all a question of how much you trust your ability to make code that converges on consensus. are you so awesome you can either sit on an old openssl, or write your own replacements? are you so godlike you can write testcases for every corner-case, bugs and all? I know I'm not. Maybe you guys are. I dunno.

06:19:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69387 @ 0.00053112 = 36.8528 BTC [+] {2}

06:19:36 midnightmagic: Say, why did you guys stop openly calling out Gavin and Hearn anyway?

06:19:55 decimation: gavin is mentioned on here from time to time

06:19:59 midnightmagic: Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

06:20:06 decimation: !s usgavin

06:20:07 assbot: 43 results for 'usgavin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=usgavin

06:20:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126663 @ 0.00053379 = 67.6114 BTC [+] {5}

06:20:15 midnightmagic: Yeah, I mean aside from the grumbling in here which nobody but people *in here* seems to read.

06:20:50 midnightmagic: For a while you were writing reddit posts and qntra articles and all sorts of stuff. Half the time you got Gavin himself "derping" as you put it, in your comments.

06:21:03 decimation: well, it wasn't me doing any of this stuff

06:21:09 midnightmagic: Or coming in here and randomly arguing with you.

06:21:20 decimation: he did a few times, rather unimpressively

06:22:37 ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> Yeah, I mean aside from the grumbling in here which nobody but people *in here* seems to read. << how could you possible know

06:22:40 ben_vulpes: possibly*

06:23:20 ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come? << hipsters always move on, boss

06:24:27 midnightmagic: Unless you are implying people outside the bitcoin world are voracious readers of the -ass logs, as far as I can tell in all the articles, reddit posts, twitter feeds, etc, I don't see more than a passing mention. But even if that weren't so, really I'm a little disappointed the wind all went out of your sails, as it were.

06:24:31 ben_vulpes: 6/10 #spergytrollfail

06:25:10 decimation: I don't really read reddit or twitter, but I recall that gavin captiulated, more or less

06:25:35 midnightmagic: And here they are, going on little half-drunken joke-rants about how maybe they should just remove everyone else's commit access and unilaterally take control again.

06:26:14 decimation: who where is?

06:26:18 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: reddit? twitter? d'you want to roll medium and perhaps bitcointalk.org into that as well?

06:26:42 midnightmagic: You guys *heads* were exploding in here, and then when "the rest" of the bitcoin-core devs took up the flag you all went quiet again. wtf?

06:26:52 ben_vulpes: for a grand coup of shit-as-what-don't-matter?

06:27:24 ben_vulpes: so we won, and you want to 3/10 troll on the topic?

06:27:32 midnightmagic: I presumed your head would explode if I mentioned forbes (due to its primary bitcoin author being a douchebag), or mainstream media.

06:27:56 midnightmagic: He didn't capitulate.

06:28:00 ben_vulpes: *derpboom*

06:28:18 trinque: gcovr outputs a nice html version of the gcov output

06:28:25 trinque: gonna let this run for a while, then I'll share the results

06:28:30 midnightmagic: What? He's pushing his BIP and pullreq, and Hearn is busy doing pullreqs which he knows doesn't have a chance of making it.

06:29:09 decimation: if bitcoin core devs agree with what people here are writing, why don't they venture here to make their case?

06:29:28 midnightmagic: .. why would they do that?

06:29:33 ben_vulpes: moreover, if the decisions made here trickle down to "bitcoin core", why should we pursue them further?

06:30:03 decimation: umm, why would we give a shit about what they are saying otherwise? I donno bro, you're the one accusing here.

06:30:41 midnightmagic: Besides, you went quiet well before he "capitulated".

06:30:57 ben_vulpes: why bang on about points that are already settled?

06:31:10 midnightmagic: I guess that answers my question.

06:31:15 midnightmagic: fair enough.

06:31:45 decimation: all I can say, for myself, is that folks write stuff on this channel, I would read; comment - as would others

06:32:09 midnightmagic: I grok.

06:32:57 decimation: with respect to bip 66 in particular, it's not a terrible idea, but it strikes me as backwards

06:33:13 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: re #trollfail it's supposed to be lighthearted elbows-in-ribs

06:33:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00053547 = 19.4643 BTC [+] {2}

06:33:28 decimation: why not solidify the questionable openssl code first, before lightly restricting certain signature forms?

06:33:54 midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Dude man, with the shit you guys say in here, I have no idea when you're ribbing someone, or promising a spear in the gut. :(

06:34:44 ben_vulpes: you're not in line for a stake

06:34:45 ben_vulpes: yet

06:34:47 ben_vulpes: :P

06:34:49 midnightmagic: lol

06:35:03 decimation: at least you show up, comment

06:35:10 ben_vulpes: myeah

06:35:13 ben_vulpes: conflict is productive!

06:35:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00053567 = 34.3097 BTC [+] {2}

06:36:48 ben_vulpes: anyways, chickens run around with their heads cut off for minutes. what of it? they still lost to the butcher.

06:37:41 ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> ben_vulpes: Dude man, with the shit you guys say in here, I have no idea when you're ribbing someone, or promising a spear in the gut. :( << the ambiguity has to be completely intolerable

06:37:52 midnightmagic: Maybe my appraisal is just wrong. Could be. Seems to me they're just taking a breather to set up the schism.

06:38:10 decimation: 'they' being gavin et al?

06:38:18 midnightmagic: Yeah, Gavin/Hearn.

06:38:25 midnightmagic: The Satoshi-Halo-Wearers.

06:38:34 decimation: yes. ultimately this is war, and we have a strategy

06:38:34 thestringpuller: oh did i come back for drama?

06:39:11 ben_vulpes: nah we seem to have defused the antagonism for now

06:39:39 midnightmagic: thestringpuller: not at all, I mainly wanted to know why you all were being so quiet lately. :-P

06:41:25 ben_vulpes: quiet!?

06:41:52 ben_vulpes: dumpblock, eatblock, exposure of the ancient blockchain is quiet now?

06:42:01 ben_vulpes: i thought you said you were reading logs!?

06:42:14 decimation: midnightmagic: yeah actually we are mostly focusing on building a working, sane bitcoind

06:42:15 thestringpuller: midnightmagic: cause I fucked up my shoulder being on the computer all day at work so I read comic books instead after work.

06:42:18 midnightmagic: Yes, I saw all that. I mean *outwardly* quiet.

06:43:01 decimation: I think there's a general ambivalence about what bitcoin-devs want or do

06:43:25 thestringpuller: midnightmagic: there really isn't news. just gavin/hearn having a temper tantrum like a little kid because they want more subsidies for poor people.

06:45:36 thestringpuller: midnightmagic: also mircea_popescu 's series on the subject (http://fraudsters.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/) outlines and details the idiocy of every redditard comment that was, is, and will be on the subject

06:46:20 decimation: at any rate, I'm going to sleep, I'm sure others will comment tomorrow on this discussion.

06:48:16 ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: that's some wack ass disingenuous shit. you jumped in on the n block consensus line.

06:54:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10788 @ 0.00053569 = 5.779 BTC [+]

06:54:55 midnightmagic: Just trying to be polite.

06:55:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115612 @ 0.00053634 = 62.0073 BTC [+] {3}

07:02:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186287 << co2. still the best solution in any perspective.

07:02:37 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 01:14:46; asciilifeform: (virgin tears? vodka ?)

07:04:38 trinque: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mod6: http://bot.deedbot.org/stator-gcov/ << here's what my gcov run looks like so far. 135k

07:04:40 assbot: Head ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFAlEp )

07:05:00 trinque: nice way to read the source

07:05:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186321 << gotta ask whoever runs that site.

07:05:19 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 02:07:07; DanyAlos: I was looking for #bitcoin-assets on this search engine (http://irc.netsplit.de/channels), and realized that it is not listed. Is there any particular reason for not being there?

07:05:47 mircea_popescu: currently the cannonical b-a log service is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com

07:05:49 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFAqb1 )

07:06:40 mircea_popescu: (an important point about co2 extinguishers is that they also cool when deployed. this effect is significant. heavier gases - not so much)

07:07:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186358 << also touched upon in here a few times. definitely the right way to do this.

07:07:55 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 02:46:46; asciilifeform: what i think would be considerably more useful is a provision for 'programmable checkpoints'

07:09:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186389 << for a long time in 2012/2013 there were "gencoin only" miners, at the peak doing like 15% ish of total hashing

07:09:35 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 03:04:15; asciilifeform: but it would stand to reason that miners will eventually exert more tx fee pressure

07:09:35 mircea_popescu: no txn included.

07:12:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60112 @ 0.00053707 = 32.2844 BTC [+] {2}

07:13:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21038 @ 0.00053837 = 11.3262 BTC [+]

07:15:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186697 << i dun think it does anything useful ; on the other hand it doesn't do anything whatsoever that wasn't either already done, or as good as already done. but whatever, let the flies buzzing in front of the truck get their fly trophies for opening the road to trucks.

07:15:35 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:47:46; decimation: I would say that on its face, bip66 isn't such a terrible idea

07:15:53 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, being critted for > 9k ironies over something like this is beyond comedic.

07:16:03 mircea_popescu: fitting for the empire of stupid, but still.

07:17:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186699 << seems it handled it gracefully.

07:17:04 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:47:58; trinque: http://dpaste.com/2KR17VF.txt << btcd log of 2015/07/03 fork

07:18:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186723 << it has historically proven to have been a massive mistake, perhaps the largest mistake on record, that people in the early f/oss made to argue on supposed technical merits and play-pretend the "impartial scientists".

07:18:41 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:51:34; asciilifeform: (for as long as it carries under 'technical', the weasels can whine, wheedle, emit 'reasonable reasonings', even persuade the persuadable)

07:18:48 mircea_popescu: i believe the lesson was learned.

07:20:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186772 << and watch the PR implementation crash and burn over division by negative zero and things.

07:20:32 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 05:13:46; decimation: at any rate this whole rejection machine can be permanantly jammed by setting nversion to MAX_INT

07:21:18 mircea_popescu: but at any rate : setting the "nversion" to maxint has at least the important symbolic significance of saying "this is the last version".

07:21:22 mircea_popescu: which may be a valuable thing.

07:22:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186780 << this is true, but broadly uninteresting.

07:22:45 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 05:26:45; decimation: I would also note that the bitcoind github commits and comments lie about the IsSuperMajority machine. They say that the mandatory rejection won't take effect until 95% of the blocks are incremented - but in fact it's only 950

07:23:12 mircea_popescu: i mean, other than painting the picture of the vermin in unflattering tones, which it does. in the field it can do precisely jack.

07:24:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186807 << more efficient mining equipment is not really happening past this point.

07:24:28 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 05:54:09; midnightmagic: that is the inverse of what will happen as more-efficient mining equipment arrives.

07:24:37 mircea_popescu: certainly nothing like we've seen to date.

07:26:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186836 << this is actually quite true.

07:26:45 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:06:14; midnightmagic: I'm familiar with the DER-encoding change they made, and I'm aware of, if not familiar with, every major bug in openssl since 2001 or so. Could I draw a line between releases that had bugs and releases that fixed them? No. Not even close.

07:27:02 mircea_popescu: pure spaghetti mess, wherein no soul can tell where the pasta ends and the cook's hairs begin

07:27:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186837 << for the same reason no one's attempting any other flavour of serious works anywhere in the decaying west, on any topic, for any reason. too busy posturing in front of things.

07:27:39 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:06:56; decimation: why isn't anyone seriously attempting to extract the open-ssl code paths used by bitcoin?

07:28:35 mircea_popescu: an exquisitely african thing this, as late as 2000 one could notice that all the egyptians seem willing to do is stand in front of the pyramids with their chests pushed out, or else gesturing importantly. meanwhile... the people who built those things don't look anything like the arab mongrels currently populating the place, if extant statues are to be believed.

07:28:43 mircea_popescu: similarly is the case of "americans".

07:29:15 mircea_popescu: whose great-grand parents noticed, while taking the upper-middle class mandatory "tour of europe", that the italians similarly etc etc.

07:31:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186847 << while this problem exists, i think the case that it is strictly preferable to attempt building a functional system than to bemoan one's fate of having been born to parents this poor, stupid and useless needs not be further pressed.

07:31:47 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:11:21; midnightmagic: well, then we have the forking risk I mentioned above: what happens when the openssl people make a fix or the internet finds a bug in the component that we depend on? If we sit on 0.9.8 or whatever the version was before those idiots got their hands on it and started adding malicious exploits, what happens?

07:32:12 midnightmagic: Almost like a sort of mass-ennui/retirement mentality. Tired of working for something they don't believe in anymore.

07:32:35 mircea_popescu: it is in point of fact better to have a static build that specifically ennumerates blocks prior to height X and then proceeds from there, than to have the present situation.

07:33:02 mircea_popescu: and that's 40 gb's worth of magic number.

07:33:07 midnightmagic: I meant to suggest that the amount of effort of doing it oneself compared with the projected risk of it happening while someone else is working on it.. which option is less expensive/reliable?

07:33:54 midnightmagic: And sipa, it seems, agrees with you, hence the existence of libsecpblah

07:33:55 mircea_popescu: you familiar with my observation re alf's "folk with brains are useless - they want to use the brains" that in terms of "optimal impact", you're always better off waiting ?

07:34:42 midnightmagic: No, but I do know for a fact that procrastination has saved my life at least six or seven times. :)

07:34:45 mircea_popescu: this is not actually a rational reason to wait.

07:34:50 mircea_popescu: sure, so it has. mine too.

07:38:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186854 << it's a complex mess. satoshi generally wrote stuff that didn't actually work for the intended purpose. it is very far from inconceivable we shall in a year discover a fundamental bug in any of a dozen dozens different essential components.

07:38:10 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:13:58; decimation: agreed, except "consenus-critical" means "compatible with what satoshi wrote" in my book

07:39:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186857 << not just there. which is why the entire signed patches business.

07:39:54 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:14:44; midnightmagic: because, like I said, I think some people in there appear to be adding exploitable code with absurd frequency.

07:40:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186865 << time will definitely tell.

07:40:56 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:18:37; midnightmagic: it's all a question of how much you trust your ability to make code that converges on consensus. are you so awesome you can either sit on an old openssl, or write your own replacements? are you so godlike you can write testcases for every corner-case, bugs and all? I know I'm not. Maybe you guys are. I dunno.

07:41:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186869 << this is where policy is set, not followed.

07:41:20 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:19:59; midnightmagic: Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

07:42:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186881 lmao "hey guise, everyone is now playing to your tune, what do you mean everyone's playing to your tune ?!?!?! so sad to see wind out of your sails as everyone's playing to your tune!!!"

07:42:37 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:24:27; midnightmagic: Unless you are implying people outside the bitcoin world are voracious readers of the -ass logs, as far as I can tell in all the articles, reddit posts, twitter feeds, etc, I don't see more than a passing mention. But even if that weren't so, really I'm a little disappointed the wind all went out of your sails, as it were.

07:42:41 mircea_popescu: what are you, on vitamins ?

07:44:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186909 << have you looked into that thing, god help you ?

07:44:51 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:33:28; decimation: why not solidify the questionable openssl code first, before lightly restricting certain signature forms?

07:45:03 mircea_popescu: it's a complete re-write. ask anyone.

07:46:52 midnightmagic: :-P No, just wondering why you think anyone else is more capable than you are at ensuring a value-destroying fork doesn't happen.

07:46:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186924 << hearn was never included in that.

07:46:53 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:38:25; midnightmagic: The Satoshi-Halo-Wearers.

07:47:14 midnightmagic: He is while he's riding around on Gavin's back. The Halo's right there above him.

07:47:15 mircea_popescu: i think what ? how is this even a problem ?

07:47:29 mircea_popescu: in this sense the halo's about as stretched as gavin's mother.

07:47:31 midnightmagic: You "set the policy" and then stopped.

07:47:56 mircea_popescu: stopped what ?

07:48:24 midnightmagic: Externally combating a blocksize increase with articles, comments, and discussion external to -ass.

07:49:17 mircea_popescu: why ? point's well made, everyone's happy to be part of bitcoin by standing on borrowed intelligence. let them.

07:49:42 mircea_popescu: next time they'll need some they... ahem... won't read b-a logs etc once more.

07:50:25 midnightmagic: Because they haven't stopped yet. Hearn's submitting pullreqs he's going to use as propaganda to push people to -XT, and Gavin's going through the bip/pullreq motions when he knows he's going to be voted down. Again.

07:50:32 mircea_popescu: so ?

07:50:49 mircea_popescu: and lawsky's going around trying to scam people like a resurected antonopopo derpopopop.

07:50:58 midnightmagic: "Miners, merchants, and exchanges," all agree with him. Supposedly.

07:51:04 mircea_popescu: any idea how long the list is ? even nefario is making the occasional reappearance.

07:51:09 mircea_popescu: yes yes.

07:51:21 mircea_popescu: every bum drunk has a story of greatness. go, listen. care.

07:51:30 midnightmagic: What? Nefario is back?! His huge black eyes all healed up?!

07:51:46 mircea_popescu: eh, they nibble discreetely at teh periphery.

07:51:59 midnightmagic: Lawsky.. name sounds familiar.

07:52:11 midnightmagic: oh, the litlicence guy.

07:52:18 mircea_popescu: heck, kenna and the armandi fellow are prolly due for a novel attempt too

07:53:12 mircea_popescu: the legions of hell are truely an infinite headcount. why do you care so much about some particular schmucks in the chorus ? why not that tv scammer dude while you're at it, what was his name

07:53:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00052491 = 14.9599 BTC [-] {2}

07:53:47 mircea_popescu: keiser.

07:54:27 midnightmagic: Dude wears the Halo. The other scammers don't matter so much. And if I really cared, I'd be doing something other than flicking out belly button lint in the shower. I'm just curious to know why *you guys* stopped.

07:54:31 mircea_popescu: to you.

07:54:51 mircea_popescu: he only wears the halo ~to you~. because you're a particular sort of inner build, and because you ate a particular diet.

07:55:10 mircea_popescu: your experiences and inner life are not nearly as universal as you imagine before you examine it.

07:55:31 midnightmagic: No, not to me. He wears the halo that makes large audiences cheer for him instead of throwing spitballs, when he says he should revoke everyone's commit access and be a dictator.

07:55:50 mircea_popescu: to most everyone else, gavin's just another washed up website designer with a great story from five years ago.

07:56:05 mircea_popescu: sort-of like how rassah bought a car or some guy bought a pizza.

07:56:11 mircea_popescu: "dude i could have been so rich and important".

07:56:13 midnightmagic: Nobody wears a halo to me. Well. Maybe Grigori Perelman..

07:56:16 mircea_popescu: yeah, sure. no shortage.

07:56:33 mircea_popescu: "and then we came THIS CLOSE to selling out to amazon for 5 trtillion"

07:56:43 mircea_popescu: go hang out in sf, see how often this comes up.

07:57:23 mircea_popescu: anyways. my 2c.

07:59:15 midnightmagic: (but Perelman's a safe bet because he's a recluse and there's no possibility of that image ever being shattered)

07:59:40 mircea_popescu: he's still alive. never trust the living. for all you know he ends up like donald trump, doing reality shows in his 70s

08:04:50 midnightmagic: blech

08:26:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00051343 = 30.4464 BTC [-] {2}

08:38:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30341 @ 0.0005312 = 16.1171 BTC [+]

08:39:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25159 @ 0.00053427 = 13.4417 BTC [+]

08:50:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16351 @ 0.00052446 = 8.5754 BTC [-]

09:06:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00053618 = 24.3426 BTC [+]

09:54:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.0005281 = 29.468 BTC [-]

10:05:28 punkman: so... did the DER chain lose the race?

10:07:51 punkman: I just started a stator patched to not skip VerifySignature, wonder if it'll work this time

10:17:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51900 @ 0.00053626 = 27.8319 BTC [+] {2}

10:17:09 mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/acrophobia/ << this one rocks

10:17:09 assbot: Acrophobia ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0g322 )

10:18:31 punkman: next one was good too http://oglaf.com/rangerron/

10:18:33 assbot: Ranger Ron's Wilderness survival guide ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0gc5I )

10:21:53 Jautenim: dafuq https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining

10:21:55 assbot: Some Miners Generating Invalid Blocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaUyaC )

10:37:47 mircea_popescu: see logs mebbe ?

10:38:09 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186613 < i dont see any difference?

10:38:09 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:30:43; mircea_popescu: Uh oh all these block explorers just flipped over to the invalid chain:

10:45:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00053217 = 29.7483 BTC [-]

10:56:01 *: kakobrekla caught up

10:56:06 kakobrekla: so we are stuck on v3 now.

11:01:06 shinohai: I'm at 254300 this morning, yay

11:02:18 shinohai: so http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-07-2015#1186636 almost there mod6

11:02:18 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:33:37; mod6: shinohai: is your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node up to dayte?

11:02:53 mircea_popescu: http://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-135.html << at least they sign.

11:02:54 assbot: XSA-135 - Xen Security Advisories ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAf28N )

11:04:21 punkman: "We are using 10.2 but got this message anyway: "Your node software is out of date and may accept an invalid blockchain fork. Do not trust confirmation."" "There was a mistake made and an alert that showed up on v0.10.2 was sent out accidentally; should be now fixed."

11:05:05 mircea_popescu: oh a mistake ? aww.

11:05:18 punkman: petertodd's answer ^

11:05:31 punkman: lukejr: "Sorry, accident, ignore."

11:06:01 punkman: petertodd: "Honestly I was half-expecting this to happen, and was actually busy writing up a warning for SPV wallets users when this issue came up."

11:06:51 shinohai: http://redd.it/3c305f <<< whelp can't trust my 0.5.3 node /s

11:06:53 assbot: If you are using any wallet other than Bitcoin Core 0.10.x or 0.9.5 (or something backed by one of those versions), then you should not trust incoming transactions until they have ~30 confirmations. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0jGVG )

11:06:59 kakobrekla: so if nothing else, cpu mining code needs to be updated in the ref implementation now or what

11:06:59 mircea_popescu: honestly i fully expect fail to "happen"

11:07:25 mircea_popescu: i thought reddit went private.

11:07:25 punkman: cpu mining code probably needs more than a couple fixes

11:07:37 kakobrekla: or does it need to work only on alpha centauri?

11:07:50 kakobrekla: or should i say only not-earth

11:08:30 mircea_popescu: check out all the miners that were mining off thin air, incidentally. because the bandwidth doubled so much.

11:10:23 kakobrekla: fees not large enough to offset the finite speed of light

11:10:49 shinohai: It appears f2p pool "almost" mined them out xD

11:17:56 mircea_popescu: quantum computing will solve this.

11:24:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00052768 = 19.0756 BTC [-] {2}

11:36:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37849 @ 0.00052533 = 19.8832 BTC [-] {2}

11:48:32 punkman: in other news, stator (with openssl1.0.1g) patched to not skip VerifySignature, has not barfed up to block 146k (previous attempt barfed earlier than that)

12:00:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143250 @ 0.00051227 = 73.3827 BTC [-] {4}

12:09:56 punkman: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=140078 relevant to ^

12:09:59 assbot: New Bitcoin vulnerability: A transaction that takes at least 3 minutes to verify ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD6BHo )

12:11:25 cazalla: wow GG America, well and truly lost the plot now http://myfox8.com/2015/07/03/florida-teacher-who-had-sex-with-three-teens-sentenced-to-22-years-in-prison/

12:11:27 assbot: Florida teacher who had sex with three teens sentenced to 22 years in prison | myfox8.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD6N9w )

12:12:31 punkman: "Two other male students, both also 17 years old, came forward as victims after Fichter was arrested." << lol assholes

12:12:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00050978 = 19.0658 BTC [-]

12:14:31 punkman: http://myfox8.com/2015/04/10/teacher-accused-of-threesome-with-student-avoids-jail-time-posts-gleeful-pic-to-instagram/

12:14:32 assbot: Teacher, accused of threesome with student, avoids jail time; posts gleeful pic to Instagram | myfox8.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD738B )

12:15:29 shinohai: 22 years, srsly ?

12:19:20 cazalla: tbh at 17 i think i would've been willing to do 22 years to fuck my english teacher

12:20:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8034 @ 0.00050978 = 4.0956 BTC [-]

12:20:52 shinohai: I always wanted to fuck my math teacher. She was smokin'

12:22:28 cazalla: now and then i've thought of the few teacher's aids that would come for a school term as part of their studies.. they were so young and pretty but would be old bags now

12:33:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58519 @ 0.00050549 = 29.5808 BTC [-]

12:57:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.0005057 = 7.3327 BTC [+]

13:16:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00050579 = 33.7868 BTC [+] {2}

14:04:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12091 @ 0.00051471 = 6.2234 BTC [+] {2}

14:05:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5909 @ 0.00052578 = 3.1068 BTC [+] {2}

14:08:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00050549 = 12.7904 BTC [-]

14:10:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11639 @ 0.00050549 = 5.8834 BTC [-] {2}

14:11:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32411 @ 0.000505 = 16.3676 BTC [-]

14:17:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71600 @ 0.000505 = 36.158 BTC [-]

14:23:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.000505 = 5.555 BTC [-]

14:32:49 punkman: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/07/04#l1435978998.0

14:32:51 assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1IXhgsV )

14:38:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90650 @ 0.00050402 = 45.6894 BTC [-] {4}

14:45:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136900 @ 0.00052845 = 72.3448 BTC [+] {3}

15:07:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143014 @ 0.00050724 = 72.5424 BTC [-] {3}

15:10:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2732 @ 0.00053217 = 1.4539 BTC [+]

15:17:28 asciilifeform: 363408

15:17:36 asciilifeform: my sync is almost at axe-time...

15:19:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00053628 = 10.8597 BTC [+]

15:19:18 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186971 << aha

15:19:18 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 07:21:18; mircea_popescu: but at any rate : setting the "nversion" to maxint has at least the important symbolic significance of saying "this is the last version".

15:19:57 asciilifeform: and from general principle, there is no reason ~not~ to make life maximally difficult for the enemy if this costs us nothing

15:27:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187074 << vMAXINT !

15:27:02 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 10:56:06; kakobrekla: so we are stuck on v3 now.

15:27:28 asciilifeform: the buggers like to monkey with versioning? fine - let's nail their ears to their heads.

15:29:54 asciilifeform: 363673... almost there

15:32:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186991 << nah, more practically, a few dozen MB (sha512 sums)

15:32:13 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 07:33:02; mircea_popescu: and that's 40 gb's worth of magic number.

15:34:21 asciilifeform: ... and now i'm synced with mircea_popescu.

15:38:56 shinohai: congrats, I am still about 167k or so

15:39:02 shinohai: *267k

15:55:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00053628 = 10.2698 BTC [+]

16:01:16 punkman: no-verifysig-skipping stator reached 169k, so I'm gonnna call this a success for now.

16:01:56 asciilifeform: somebody last night had problem building stator:

16:02:06 asciilifeform: i did learn that many linux distros lack 'realpath'

16:02:09 asciilifeform: which is used in the script

16:02:26 punkman: maybe we should add a .conf option that lets whoever really wants it to skip VerifySig between checkpoints

16:02:36 asciilifeform: as temporary workaround, replace the realpath thing (whole right side of equal sign) with the absolute path of 'ourlibs'

16:02:45 punkman: yeah that's what I did

16:02:48 asciilifeform: aha neat.

16:03:49 punkman: asciilifeform: what do you think about making no-verifysig-skip the default for next release?

16:04:00 asciilifeform: can't think of any reason not to

16:06:20 punkman: as it is versions will accept blocks of version 1 and 2, allowing shitgnomes to induce forks. what's gonna happen with this?

16:07:28 punkman: (can be combined with very-slow-to-verify block for bonus points)

16:08:12 punkman: sig op parallelism would help in that regard

16:08:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00053639 = 4.8275 BTC [+]

16:10:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1980 @ 0.00053639 = 1.0621 BTC [+]

16:11:24 danielpbarron: http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-program-discussion/1169541-2-police-detectives-house-cyber-crime-yesterday-post20514733.html >> They said tax information and records were continually being pulled. They kept asking me questions about bitcoin, blah blah blah.

16:11:27 assbot: 2 police detectives showed up to my house for cyber crime yesterday. - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1UlYt3p )

16:13:08 mod6: my stator is @ 281k

16:17:04 asciilifeform: 'nd that they sell over 30k student emails for $20, which I had bought;' << l337 sp4mz0r ?

16:17:25 phf: so stator builds and syncs on openbsd 5.6 i386

16:17:27 phf: OpenBSD 5.6 GENERIC#274 i386; -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 5.0M Jul 4 02:34 bitcoind; bitcoind: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, statically linked, stripped

16:17:47 asciilifeform: phf: you may be the first to achieve openbsd build! consider posting recipe

16:17:48 phf: i had to make some minor changes http://paste.lisp.org/display/151074

16:17:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Um06hx )

16:18:06 asciilifeform: neat!

16:18:18 asciilifeform: send it to the ml ?

16:18:33 phf: asciilifeform: it pretty much builds out of the box. the only tricky part is the " -Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" business

16:19:13 phf: apparently gcc doesn't always include all the necessary pthread bits (not just openbsd but other unixes), which results in segfault on launch

16:19:51 asciilifeform: good work phf

16:19:51 punkman: 30k student email list? I scraped like 5mil for leet sv startup last year.

16:19:56 phf: asciilifeform: i have a small backlog of things i want to send to the list, i'll wrap it up sometime over the weekend

16:21:19 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i built stator on dulap just now. unchanged from public recipe other than the 'realpath' thing (mentioned earlier.) same process ought to work on your other centos boxes. it will run as a public node as soon as i shove a blockchain in there.

16:21:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:23:32 asciilifeform: has anybody as of this moment received a block past 363734 from mircea_popescu's node ?

16:24:43 punkman: heh "I shook hands with the man I did most of the talking with and they took off... I was a little shooken up but realized I made a big mistake! I forgot to shake the black police detective's hand... shit!!! "

16:26:43 *: williamdunne has a mailing list of 13,000 bitcoiners

16:41:04 asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...

16:41:04 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:41:26 asciilifeform: the miners ~are~ zombies

16:44:22 mod6: <+asciilifeform> phf: you may be the first to achieve openbsd build! consider posting recipe << please do!

16:44:36 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu any of your nodes past 363734 at this time ?

16:44:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:45:00 mod6: <+phf> apparently gcc doesn't always include all the necessary pthread bits (not just openbsd but other unixes), which results in segfault on launch << on my obsd 5.6 on x86-64 that's the same problem i kept running into; segfault at execution time.

16:45:54 mod6: <+asciilifeform> has anybody as of this moment received a block past 363734 from mircea_popescu's node ? << im a day a way or so yet

16:45:58 mod6: *away

16:46:16 mod6: height=281810

16:46:19 asciilifeform: mod6: i've been synced for ~1hour and it looks like it's firmly stuck there

16:46:41 asciilifeform: (not a connectivity problem - i'm getting mempoolisms just fine)

16:51:24 punkman: http://images1.backpage.com/imager/u/large/175386055/slide-three.jpg

16:51:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKyr6b )

16:51:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00053639 = 12.927 BTC [+]

16:52:02 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, mine stops at 36 http://danielpbarron.com/invalid_chain.txt

16:52:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKywXD )

16:52:19 danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node is at height=363815

16:53:04 mod6: thx for posting dpb

16:53:15 danielpbarron: the one stuck at 36 is not limited to one seed, but it is running on a pogo with archlinux

16:58:46 danielpbarron: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1108304.0 >> F2Pool is building on a wrong side and there is fake confirmation since block 363731. (EDIT: the bogus chain of 363731 is already orphaned and not relevant to normal users)

16:58:48 assbot: Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKzxPt )

17:03:32 *: asciilifeform out to meatspace for most of the remaining day

17:04:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00053732 = 2.2567 BTC [+]

17:05:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 203404 @ 0.0005391 = 109.6551 BTC [+] {4}

17:08:31 trinque: I am seeing a bunch of ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() in my stator run

17:11:34 punkman: trinque: what does it say after "AcceptToMemoryPool()"

17:13:03 williamdunne: http://www.followingthetrend.com/2015/06/a-random-ass-kicking-of-wall-street/

17:13:05 assbot: A Random Ass Kicking of Wall Street | Following the Trend ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBFH4 )

17:14:18 williamdunne: PRNGs selecting 50 random stocks each month from S&P 500 vs S&P 500 index:

17:14:18 williamdunne: http://www.followingthetrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Figure-15-1-Benchmarking-Randomness.png

17:14:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBNX2 )

17:14:45 trinque: punkman: http://dpaste.com/2M49VAC.txt

17:14:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBSdf )

17:21:15 trinque: williamdunne: I tend to take stock market prices as inflation indicators these days

17:21:35 trinque: I'm sure they used to mean something else, but we're in bizarro land where the length of a meter changes day to day

17:22:53 williamdunne: I'm not going to disagree with you completely, but I do still believe that S&P500 beats inflation by a couple of percent

17:23:04 williamdunne: Which still leaves room over official rates

17:23:18 trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic

17:23:59 trinque: well, matters how you measure inflation too

17:24:10 *: trinque wanders in search of coffee

17:24:24 williamdunne: True, some things are deflationary too, dependent on how you measure 'em

17:26:03 fluffypony: is that a post-coital penis joke?

17:26:35 trinque: you have to measure inflation from the balls!

17:29:09 punkman: trinque: I think that's to be expected with orphanage amputations. I have those and also plenty of "ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction type"

17:29:18 trinque: ah ok

17:31:12 williamdunne: fluffypony: Yes, well spotted

17:31:34 williamdunne: trinque: I always measured from my asshole, am I doing something wrong?

17:33:01 trinque: williamdunne: no one can tell you where your dick begins and ends... this is AMERICA!

17:33:25 williamdunne: Wooo, now I get to brag about my 3 inch glory!

17:38:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00053612 = 10.6152 BTC [-] {2}

17:40:03 danielpbarron: !up sergiohlb

17:42:23 shinohai: Height=273952 :/

17:44:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51717 @ 0.00054114 = 27.9861 BTC [+] {2}

17:44:51 jurov: lol, that's actually true that dick continues deeper in the body

17:44:51 mod6: shinohai: is that with your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node?

17:46:27 shinohai: @ mod6 yes, other one still not built yet

17:48:54 mod6: ah ok thanks

17:52:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61337 @ 0.00054139 = 33.2072 BTC [+]

18:01:26 williamdunne: jurov: Quite a bit further IIRC

18:19:44 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186869 << it's not unlike my approach to Christianity -- most everyone already believes in the nice sounding bits, so why should I bother talking about them? I stick to the parts of the message that are not popular

18:19:44 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 06:19:59; midnightmagic: Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

18:26:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054139 = 20.7623 BTC [+]

18:40:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36083 @ 0.00053589 = 19.3365 BTC [-]

18:42:06 shinohai: @ danielpbarron I like table-flipping Jesus best.

18:56:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00054113 = 37.0945 BTC [+] {2}

19:00:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00054139 = 25.5536 BTC [+]

19:03:16 trinque: shinohai: same

19:03:19 trinque: with the whip iirc

19:15:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72200 @ 0.00054139 = 39.0884 BTC [+]

19:30:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054147 = 16.4607 BTC [+] {2}

20:01:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the dispute was 730/736

20:07:37 trinque: mircea_popescu: is your node down?

20:07:40 trinque: getting connection refused

20:07:59 mircea_popescu: ima look into it.

20:16:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00054188 = 18.5323 BTC [+]

20:22:28 mircea_popescu: trinque i dun see anything

20:23:40 punkman: ^ works here

20:24:04 trinque: I got connection refused starting at 07/04/15 20:02:12 UTC

20:24:17 trinque: came back at 07/04/15 20:09:46

20:24:22 *: trinque shrugs

20:24:31 trinque: ass-goblins in the intertubes

20:24:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform : "Reorg!

20:24:51 mircea_popescu: Cut 6 start 000000000000000006a3 end 000000000000000013fe

20:24:51 mircea_popescu: Add 7 start 000000000000000006a3 end 0000000000000000014e"

20:24:59 mircea_popescu: they should. eventually.

20:25:07 mircea_popescu: fork's only been actually resolved a few hours ago.

20:29:43 punkman: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c404r/shout_out_to_the_american_core_devs_that_are/

20:29:45 assbot: Shout out to the American Core Devs that are spending their 4th ensuring the health of the blockchain : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1TcE1R7 )

20:30:00 trinque: pfff

20:30:50 trinque: speaking of which, I'm adding the coverage flag to the deps too, and will regen that gcovr html thereafter

20:31:33 trinque: I was surprised to find that bitcoin doesn't actually look that *big* compared to other C++ projects I've seen

20:31:38 trinque: just... messy

20:32:19 trinque: it'll be neat to see for example how much of boost or openssl is actually used

20:32:29 trinque: might be able to just rip those bits off from the dep, then cut off the dep

20:32:48 jurov: !s openssl monkeys

20:32:49 assbot: 1 results for 'openssl monkeys' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=openssl+monkeys

20:33:09 punkman: you can't cut off boost

20:33:14 jurov: trinque and anyone other: mandatory reading

20:33:22 trinque: jurov: hyper-lol

20:33:27 trinque: punkman: whysat

20:33:32 trinque: too interconnected?

20:33:42 punkman: you'll just have to reimplement everything

20:33:49 trinque: but what's "everything"?

20:33:52 trinque: 2% of boost?

20:34:03 trinque: it'd be boost's interconnectedness that might prevent it, maybe

20:34:27 trinque: anyhow this is what I wanna see with the gcov thing

20:35:59 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019971

20:35:59 assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 22:34:28; asciilifeform: 2) tearing out 'boost' while keeping the project in cpp will turn it into an unreadable morass of crud that makes the existing turd look like the finest sausage

20:36:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60200 @ 0.00054492 = 32.8042 BTC [+] {2}

20:36:51 mircea_popescu: trinque, asciilifeform, wimc : if client fails to progress past 363736, the likely culprit is the db locks limit. look in derp.log (assuming standard derp) for "REORGANIZE\nREORGANIZE: Disconnect 6 blocks; 000000000000000006a3..000000000000000013fe\nREORGANIZE: Connect 7 blocks; 000000000000000006a3..0000000000000000014e\n\n\n************************\nEXCEPTION: 11DbException\nDb::get: Cannot allocate memory\nbitcoin i

20:36:51 mircea_popescu: n ProcessMessage()\n\nProcessMessage(block, 947244 bytes) FAILED\n" which is the confirmation. then increase the number o' locks.

20:37:12 trinque: k, ty

20:37:22 mircea_popescu: alternatively, feed it the last few blocks through the mechanism discussed that alf created recently i guess.

20:38:50 mircea_popescu: <trinque> might be able to just rip those bits off from the dep, then cut off the dep <<< ahahaha you.

20:39:54 trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm sure I'm about to see a nightmare when I pull the deps into the gcov thinger

20:40:01 trinque: but bitcoin! it seems so simple!

20:40:07 *: trinque shakes his head

20:42:19 jurov: can gcov cope with templated function generated by macros?

20:45:29 mod6: 286k+

20:47:47 trinque: jurov: according to this you lose a lot of detail, i.e only get statistics for the line of the macro call http://codingfreak.blogspot.com/2009/02/gcov-analyzing-code-produced-with-gcc.html

20:47:48 assbot: Gcov - analyzing code produced with GCC ~ Codingfreak ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPkDIz )

20:48:14 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1186129 << a tape recorder is the one thing I forgot to bring (I had specifically prepared one for the event but forgot to pack it) -- the mere act of having such a device around free-staters would probably trigger them into a rage

20:48:14 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 23:48:17; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-07-2015#1184704 << dude you gotta wear a recording devince next and have someone transcribe it.

20:48:46 trinque: danielpbarron: s-stop the surveillance!

20:50:38 jurov: you can record with cellphone, no?

20:50:59 jurov: or is removing battery mandatory at such meetings?

20:52:28 mircea_popescu: incidentally, am i the only one finding it a wee bit suspicious that the orphan chain ended up 6 blocks long, ie, exactly the size normally deemed "safe" ?

20:53:21 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: you think there was a big transaction that got double-spent ? or...

20:53:42 mircea_popescu: one could definitely have existed, on this basis.

20:53:45 danielpbarron: jurov, by the time i can get my iphone out of pocket, unlocked, open the recording app, start recording.... the lunatic has already spouted off the gems worth recording

20:53:51 pete_dushenski: what i can't figure out is why the hashrate didn't seem to split with the ph0rk...

20:53:59 mircea_popescu: then again plenty of people do not even wait for one.

20:54:16 jurov: pete_dushenski does anyone do such fine statistics?

20:54:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186531 << the clients do seem to run into similar problems eh.

20:54:51 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 04:15:35; ben_vulpes: simple rehash of the "let's probe network cohesion strength" fork

20:55:11 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski 6 blocks wouldn't necessarily be visible. even three deep reorgs happen with some regularity naturally.

20:56:10 pete_dushenski: jurov: perhaps not.

20:57:38 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ok, but assuming those 6 invalid orphan blocks are off on their own, how is it that some sites (eg. bc.i) are reporting that this foundation of sand is still being built on ?

20:58:03 mircea_popescu: are they ? i've not looked.

20:58:36 pete_dushenski: bc.i is

20:58:36 jurov: no it reports them as orphaned

20:59:04 jurov: https://blockchain.info/blocks just the numbering is messed up

20:59:05 assbot: Blocks mined on 04/07/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfKfp )

20:59:28 pete_dushenski: jurov: perhaps ima confoozed, but don't orphaned blocks have to be replaced with valid blocks in the main chain ?

20:59:45 jurov: yes.. that's why i say numbers are messed up

20:59:49 pete_dushenski: so the numbers are meaningless ?

21:00:12 pete_dushenski: must be...

21:00:18 mircea_popescu: here's what's the idea : after botching the soft fork, it seems illogical that the entire bip system should continue at all.

21:00:30 mircea_popescu: these are people who have been so far causing nothing but problems for bitcoin.

21:00:45 mircea_popescu: there can not be a single instance documented where they did anything useful to any degree or in any sense

21:00:54 mircea_popescu: an abundance of instances can be documented where they fucked things up

21:01:21 mircea_popescu: then they go on reddit to "explain" why what they fucked up isn't their fault, and "what really happened" , and collect cheap applause from the celenterates therein living.

21:01:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00054516 = 13.4655 BTC [+]

21:01:47 *: pete_dushenski searches memory for instances of useful 'devs'... blank.

21:01:54 mircea_popescu: this is EXACTLY how usg works throughout. first, cause black people to be poor and depenedent. then cause them to be violent. then go on press conferences about how "they're doing things about black violence"

21:02:04 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 new build successful and now in sync ...

21:02:04 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:02:05 mircea_popescu: right. splendid. how about go home and the problem goes away with you.

21:02:22 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, BIP 999 : No more fucking BIPs.

21:02:36 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's the broken window/car accident economy

21:02:46 pete_dushenski: great for gdp.

21:02:55 mircea_popescu: i do not see any gdp here.

21:03:00 pete_dushenski: shitty for civilisation.

21:03:26 mircea_popescu: for the unsubstantiated delusionsm of a few random geeks, working to make the world believe they're knowledgeable and important, bitcoin hiccups every so often.

21:07:02 pete_dushenski: !gettrust travispatron

21:07:02 assbot: travispatron is not registered in WoT.

21:07:29 pete_dushenski: for when he does...

21:08:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170149 @ 0.00054549 = 92.8146 BTC [+] {4}

21:08:55 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell travispatron you sucked before, you suck now, and you will always suck. enjoy the periphery, derp.

21:08:55 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:09:26 pete_dushenski: for posterity, because menahem's comment was beleeted once and it'll obviously happen again :https://archive.is/mKOij

21:09:55 menahem: lulz

21:12:51 jurov: pete_dushenski: looks like b.info is hopelessly stuck on showing only orphaned blocks

21:13:08 jurov: http://btc.blockr.io/block/info/363736 vs. https://blockchain.info/block-height/363736

21:13:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPnpNX )

21:13:11 assbot: Bitcoin Blocks At Height 363736 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPnpO1 )

21:13:45 jurov: (blockr is right)

21:13:51 pete_dushenski: such vc funding...

21:13:59 pete_dushenski: wait, who owns blockr again ?

21:16:34 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> here's what's the idea : after botching the soft fork, it seems illogical that the entire bip system should continue at all. << Very much agreed. If someone wants to change something they should write to The Foundation's btc-dev mailing list and submit a patch. And if they can't because they're not in the WoT, well they're not in the WoT. They can make a personal appeal here in person.

21:17:16 mircea_popescu: alternatively they could just shut down and stfu already.

21:17:28 mod6: haha. yeah, that too.

21:17:35 shinohai: lel

21:17:42 mats: pete_dushenski: coinbase

21:18:56 pete_dushenski: mats: aha thanks. just goes to show that there are shades of grey in the braindead morass of veecee moolah, not all are created equal.

21:22:56 mircea_popescu: also lulzy for all the people using blockchain.info to validate txn.

21:23:57 jurov: or b1ockchain.info or other similar derivatives

21:40:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58249 @ 0.00054577 = 31.7906 BTC [+]

21:45:11 mircea_popescu: "wangchun Luke-Jr: I do not know how that v2 pool was relayed, log was lost in a screen session"

21:45:17 mircea_popescu: this gotta be a... cultural thing.

21:45:22 mats: le pgp key server almost done cooking

21:46:05 mats: mircea_popescu: should i make it publicly available for auditing?

21:46:36 mircea_popescu: mats of course.

21:46:37 mats: or keep it in house; perhaps jurov or asciilifeform would be interested in doing it

21:46:43 mats: alright

21:46:47 mircea_popescu: consider sign and submit to list.

21:48:54 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_modem

21:49:11 mircea_popescu: apparently in the world we live in, the best way to ensure nobody reads something is to publish it as code anyway

21:49:26 ascii_modem: so where are the pikes with the headz??

21:50:05 mircea_popescu: there is no physical punishment for being extremely ridiculous.

21:50:24 ascii_modem: oh and no reorgs in my log

21:50:29 mircea_popescu: there are some people that go around introducing themseves as "bitcoin devs" who just spectacularly failed the least controversial soft fork to date.

21:50:33 mircea_popescu: this isn't washing

21:51:09 mircea_popescu: but whatever, phantomcircuit is still the guy who ran "a security companmy" that oversaw 3 bitcoinica thefts, and still the guy who hacked a python one liner to send every customer an email with the full list of customer emails

21:51:18 mircea_popescu: yet he's still walking around as if he were somehow still a person.

21:51:34 mircea_popescu: the dead don't know they're dead ; the ridiculous don't know they're ridiculous. the world is well constructed for one's amusement.

21:52:09 ascii_modem: the enemy accomplished his objective, which probably had something to do with discrediting chinese mines

21:52:36 mircea_popescu: to pin objectives on brownian motion...

21:52:45 mircea_popescu: "the enemy" is barely cogent enough to be enmitous at all.

21:53:42 ascii_modem: not brownian - has very obvious aims (keeping turdalicious-bitcoind in circulation being one)

21:54:09 mircea_popescu: i suspect this obviousness is a fruit of your eye, not of the thing you're lookling on. like people perceive souls in cats' eyes.

21:54:26 mircea_popescu: just because you have one, and it's a very reflective surface, doesn't mean it has one too.

21:54:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00054735 = 13.848 BTC [+]

21:55:30 mircea_popescu: neway, of more interesting things : confirmed my seeder's stuck on 363736.

21:55:41 ascii_modem: aha

21:55:52 ascii_modem: was when i last saw

21:56:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_modem this is incidentally an exceptional opportunity to test our recent toolset.

21:56:54 ascii_modem: hm?

21:56:58 mircea_popescu: what happens if you import the 7 block alt-chain into the stator ?

21:57:30 ascii_modem: innit in there now? or am i confused

21:58:21 mircea_popescu: atm the situation is that block 363730 is forked. one chain, 6 blocks long, proceeds atop a v2 block. the current main chain proceeds from 363730 on v3 blocks.

21:58:54 mircea_popescu: the difference between v3 and v2 is , as best anyone can determine, actual fucking validation for the openssl nonsense. hardly avoidable.

21:59:21 mod6: !gettrust phf mod6

21:59:21 assbot: Trust relationship from user phf to user mod6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=phf&to=mod6 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mod6/

21:59:30 mircea_popescu: this, obviously, would also be where to bury who knows what. but if it's there, nobody's found it yet that i know

21:59:44 ascii_modem: so evil wins?

21:59:51 mircea_popescu: how so ?

22:00:15 ascii_modem: we involuntarily backport a gavinism?

22:00:36 mircea_popescu: how's it a gavinism to begin with ?

22:00:51 ascii_modem: because not ours?

22:01:03 mircea_popescu: lemme lay out the issue here in detail, i think it's mebbe getting fudged.

22:01:54 mircea_popescu: so 1. it was observed that the idiots running openssl, who for historical reasons are actually wholesale pulled into bitcoin, decided to fuck up the way they do signatures, which is to say, make items signed come out in rnadom shapes. this is obviously very dangerous for bitcoin

22:02:14 ascii_modem: aga i recall

22:02:25 mircea_popescu: 2. a voluntary, user-enforced change to the protocol was proposed (iirc by petertodd) where only DER sigs are accepted anymore.

22:02:44 mircea_popescu: this is neither a bad idea nor in any sense avoidable. because, again, without it we'll fork daily.

22:02:54 mircea_popescu: it'd have been ideal to not import the satoshism in question into bitcoin, but before our time.

22:03:31 mircea_popescu: 3. in order to avoid the situation that happened tonight, a supposed "voting" mechanism was deployed where people switched an irrelevant byte in the blocks they mined, to go from 2 to 3, to indicate they are ready and willing to follow the new rules.

22:03:56 mircea_popescu: this, again, has nothing to do with us. if tomorrow miners decide as a social game to never communicate any blocks they find that hash to odd, it's THEIR problem

22:03:58 ascii_modem: where were the daily forks b/w january (?) and now ?

22:04:05 mircea_popescu: and we'll never see an odd hash block for as long as they keep at it.

22:04:16 mircea_popescu: lemme finish

22:05:12 mircea_popescu: 4. the people who voted did so as all people voting ever do : blankly, mouth only. then, someone mined a v2 block on top of a v3 block (which to them look identical) and the supposed 95% majority that promised by that vote to distinguish failed to distinguish. well, half of them or so. the other half distinguished

22:05:42 mircea_popescu: this utterly proves that a) the BIP system provides no benefit and should be disused ; b) the peoiple involved with all this nonsense should be muted ; c) voting does not work. nothing here is novel.

22:06:02 mircea_popescu: none of this in any way invalidates anything about the new chain, nor is it a point of concern that i can distinguish

22:06:12 mircea_popescu: done.,

22:07:21 ascii_modem: got plan?

22:07:26 mircea_popescu: ascii_modem where were the daily forks b/w january (?) and now ? << costs a little to make one, nobody cared enough. (also lots of manual intervention and general ducttaping at the miner and relayer level - bitcoin is quickly becoming an excellent makework tool, keeping idiots both employed and in a delusion of importance)

22:07:55 mircea_popescu: well, just let the chain reorg an' carry on, imo.

22:08:11 mircea_popescu: i still don't see how it affects us / anything of concern.

22:08:15 ascii_modem: where is my reorg?

22:08:26 ascii_modem: my node is dead in the water

22:08:29 mircea_popescu: the only problem is that the clients ain't reorging properly, which needs looking into/

22:09:43 mircea_popescu: which is why i said, perfect time to test our tools.

22:09:51 ascii_modem: i saw no signs of blocks happening at all

22:09:54 mircea_popescu: specifically, what happens if you put the new chain into a node

22:10:05 mircea_popescu: well you're only looking at mine, and mine's not relaying.

22:10:14 ascii_modem: ah

22:10:36 mircea_popescu: which it's how it's made to work, better fail than be stupid.

22:10:39 ascii_modem: gonna plug in the one on dulap when i get home

22:10:59 mircea_popescu: now, since you're synced to my level, and you have a full validating node, i see no reason to not open the listen port. do you ?

22:11:25 ascii_modem: open

22:11:27 mircea_popescu: the original point of this thing i run here was to give all comers the historical chain as is in my custody.

22:11:45 mircea_popescu: i do intend to replace it with a foundation one as soon as practicable.

22:11:57 mircea_popescu: but for now it can stay as it is, because i think more people were syncing to it.

22:12:32 mircea_popescu: im also going to have it unstuck, but i got a shitpile of stuff cooking atm.

22:12:37 mircea_popescu: behind on reports and etc.

22:12:51 ascii_modem: from your earlier pastes, mirceacoind has slightly spiffier debug...? than ri

22:13:17 mircea_popescu: i dunno, mebbe

22:13:26 mircea_popescu: i dun think i ever used the original.

22:13:44 mircea_popescu: what's bitcoind debug toolset ?

22:13:59 ascii_modem: just about nil

22:14:08 ascii_modem: only the log

22:14:09 mircea_popescu: then perforce ?

22:14:30 ascii_modem: ?

22:14:32 trinque: ascii_modem: some lcov output for ya http://bot.deedbot.org/stator-lcov/

22:14:33 assbot: LCOV - coverage.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFihdx )

22:14:41 trinque: added the --coverage flag to all the deps

22:14:43 mircea_popescu: ascii_modem anything will be spiffier than nil neh ?

22:15:13 ascii_modem: trinque: neato - will read as soon as i'm not on street

22:15:44 trinque: cool, just wanted to post the link

22:16:48 ascii_modem: fellas, we gotta infer, divine, & reimplement mircea_popescu's mega-debugger

22:17:20 mircea_popescu: i run a public company wut do you want from me, blood ?

22:17:21 mircea_popescu: omaygerd

22:18:20 ascii_modem: l0l

22:19:08 mircea_popescu: anyway, i am very much amused at the way discussion with kakobrekla turned out. 600 hours "oh miners will just so and so " "nobody cares what miners do" ; 1800 "oh miners just so and so'd!!1" "and it turns out nobody cared".

22:19:40 mircea_popescu: so what, is "95% consensus" going to gavincoin next ? for ... all of six blocks again ? cool.

22:20:14 thestringpuller: !up ascii_modem

22:20:58 ascii_modem: picture if we had pogos deployed

22:21:07 mircea_popescu: wouldn't have changed anything.

22:21:09 thestringpuller: d00d i can't spend shit this weekend.

22:21:20 thestringpuller: "We need 20 confirms sorry"

22:21:21 ascii_modem: how many other ways for fuckers to wedge us

22:21:33 mircea_popescu: oh oh.

22:21:36 mircea_popescu: myeah.

22:21:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142438 @ 0.00054539 = 77.6843 BTC [-] {2}

22:21:57 mircea_popescu: this is a major problem, and the fact we're looking into it one of the few things giving me solace and better rest at night

22:22:37 ascii_modem: this incident makes it very tempting to just unzip, piss on satoshid, and go ada sanityfork (tm)

22:22:55 mircea_popescu: gotta make the fambly unit work alfie.

22:23:11 ascii_modem: ?

22:23:40 mircea_popescu: i know she's stupid and fat and you want a divorce, but...

22:23:45 mircea_popescu: gotta make the fambly unit work.

22:23:58 ascii_modem: right now we got an anthill in the living room

22:24:16 mircea_popescu: and you don't even know about the used condoms behind the bed headboard

22:24:23 ascii_modem: there are different schools of thought re how to furnish a room

22:24:29 punkman: I think we need to put a lot more comments on the code, kinda clunky to do through patches to ML though

22:24:34 ascii_modem: but none include anthill

22:24:36 thestringpuller: you married alf?

22:24:55 mircea_popescu: punkman you can resubmit it commented.

22:25:11 mircea_popescu: an' signed, an' people will prolly prefer referencing yours unless it's dumb

22:25:24 mircea_popescu: in which case they'll prolly change it rather than start from the original. unles it's VERY dumb.

22:25:38 mircea_popescu: which sort of reorg apparentyly happens, or used to happen, a whole lot.

22:27:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00054068 = 24.8172 BTC [-]

22:27:11 ascii_modem: so far i'm not sure any of you apprehend just what a steaming turd the thing is

22:27:52 punkman: in other news, ATMs getting ddos'd even at 1am. rejects transaction, spits out card, and you gotta start over. perhaps intentional rate-limiting.

22:28:06 ascii_modem: where?

22:28:25 mircea_popescu: he's in greece.

22:28:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, the main sufferance in my head atm is that reading the chinese stuff (in translation) clarifies in my head an objection that may well be a second major flaw to the protocol, after the "relay nodes gotta do it for the glory" : its altogether unclear a purely financial incentive is the correct solution for miners.

22:28:32 ascii_modem: ah!

22:28:49 ascii_modem: ^^^^

22:28:51 mircea_popescu: specifically : atm there is an arbitrage open, where you can either make money by "brute forcing" it ie hashing,

22:29:20 mircea_popescu: or else by fucking up other people's miners. i ordered a listing of "all the ways you could exploit a miner with crafted comms for a hash advantage"

22:29:29 mircea_popescu: the process hasn't returned yet, the list is already hundreds of entries long

22:29:39 mircea_popescu: most only apply to specific implementationms etc, but! fuck me...

22:29:42 ascii_modem: this is the exam thread all over again

22:29:55 mircea_popescu: it pays more as a pool operator to be into skulldugery than into running your pool

22:30:00 ascii_modem: where 'exams optimize for examsmanship'

22:30:08 mircea_popescu: ipso facto "running pool" ===== "nefariousness in layers"

22:30:34 mircea_popescu: sure, people don't do it yet. mostly because lazy, 2nd mostly because stupid, 3rd mostly because it's not even txn time yet.

22:31:03 mircea_popescu: but when that begins all this may fucking collapse under the weight of... if money's the incentive to mine mining will not exactly allign with "securing the network"

22:31:34 mircea_popescu: (txn time = when most miner revenue comes from block txn)

22:31:56 ascii_modem: the mire scant the crumbs, the bloodier the crumbfight

22:31:56 scoopbot_revived: Bitcoin's 4th of July : INDEPENDENCE FROM AMERICA DAY http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/04/bitcoins-4th-of-july-independence-from-america-day/

22:32:14 mircea_popescu: lol

22:32:15 ascii_modem: *more

22:32:39 pete_dushenski: ^my modest post-mortem, perhaps early...

22:32:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_modem more specifically put : currently everyone is mining with a "god given" known tx of 25 btc + whatever they pick off the ground.

22:32:58 mircea_popescu: tomorrow, they will not KNOW immediately through act of god where that 25 btc comes from

22:33:46 ascii_modem: 12.5...

22:34:18 mircea_popescu: atm 99.x% of income comes through this immediate, sent-from-heaven-above channel

22:34:34 mircea_popescu: if as much as 66% comes that way and the other 33% has to be found out about... o baby.

22:34:52 mircea_popescu: hard to convey what the changes in dynamic such a thing brings.

22:35:13 ascii_modem: also touches on the mempool thread

22:35:21 mircea_popescu: really the % of income "just known" vs "information acquired" is the proper measure.

22:35:39 mircea_popescu: atm the split is .999 - .001 or somesuch. this will change monotoniucall;y the other way

22:35:42 ascii_modem: whole thing is mostly duct tape by weight

22:37:20 punkman: "A blockchain that does not validate under 0.5.3 is an altcoin blockchain." << both forks were valid in 0.5.3, right?

22:37:23 ascii_modem: so far there is no structure remotely enough to take up the weight if the duct tape is ripped out

22:37:49 mircea_popescu: punkman right. hence all the "We don't give a shit" verbiage here.

22:39:06 mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't envisage as much as an inkling of a solution. just more stuff to worry about.

22:39:43 ascii_modem: one one hand, i don't give a shit, yes. on the other, a human turd pressed a button, my nodes are halted, and there is no guarantee that they don't have a bottomless magazine of these

22:39:48 mircea_popescu: but this situation is why im so cold on your ada idea. sure, you go put all the god damned effort into writing a fully correct, fully specified implementation oif an... broken idea.

22:39:55 mircea_popescu: i like you too much for something liek that.

22:40:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.00053931 = 31.0643 BTC [-] {3}

22:40:19 ascii_modem: so invent correct idea ?

22:40:26 mircea_popescu: until we know exactly wtf to do about relayers, about miners now, there is no point. the prototype's still prototypin'.

22:40:34 mircea_popescu: dude, how about you actually get some data first omfg.

22:40:53 mircea_popescu: yea, i get it, may mean that this makes your fate be to muddle in the dirt, piling up data for your kid, who maybe might do it.

22:41:03 mircea_popescu: fuck you, your grandparents were farmers. it's how this fucking world works.

22:41:04 ascii_modem: would really help to have a fucking reasonable platform for this

22:41:25 mircea_popescu: yes. it would really help.

22:41:39 ascii_modem: that means not hairball

22:41:45 mircea_popescu: no, i know.

22:43:18 ascii_modem: actually ~my~ grandparents were approx. what i am now, l0l

22:43:36 ascii_modem: the male ones at least

22:44:02 ascii_modem: but farming is tempting, yes

22:44:22 punkman: "Chrome extension "BitcoinWisdom Ads Remover" by MasterX will change your btce deposit address after page is loaded. Do not use this app or remove it if you installed."

22:44:47 punkman: surprised we aren't seeing more of these

22:44:53 ascii_modem: run moar chromedowz!!

22:44:57 punkman: farming is tempting?

22:45:08 ascii_modem: compared to c++

22:45:23 punkman: wait until you try to debug plants

22:45:29 trinque: or a cow's arse

22:46:18 ascii_modem: bbl

22:49:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just sayin, humanity was built by originally trudging the muck with no tools.

22:49:20 mircea_popescu: there is no reason to expect any better in this new field. it is, after all, a field.

22:49:36 mircea_popescu: and yes, most men died before seeing the thing they were working for. historically, to date.

22:49:42 mircea_popescu: there's no reason to expect etc etc.

22:50:48 mircea_popescu: <punkman> wait until you try to debug plants << he has a point there. tho in fairness iirc alf debugged mice at some point.

22:52:02 *: mircea_popescu is mildly impressed at alf's lineage in any case. my grandparents were teachers and whatnot, but great-grandparents deifnitely farmers.

22:52:39 punkman: I get very frustrated at things like "o hey we've sprayed 12 different solutions at it and the damn lemon tree still has fungus"

22:52:43 mircea_popescu: not really *that* far off

22:53:37 mircea_popescu: punkman i had problems with, "artichoke does so well here, it actually STAYED GREEN THROUGH WINTER, suppoirting an inch of snow on its upturned broad leaves. meanwhile, magnolia sapplings grow < 1inch per year and will never flower"

22:54:05 mircea_popescu: the town was fully of blooming magnolias and i never saw a single artichoke plant outside of my garden

22:56:53 punkman: for a short time I believed in the mythical farmer that actually knows what he's doing. But after watching the experts debug these things, my only conclusion is they sometimes get lucky and that's the best I could hope for.

22:57:23 punkman: maybe they got better corn science over in the US, dunno.

22:57:24 mircea_popescu: just like coders.

22:57:42 mircea_popescu: yeah, if you agree to make unedible crud you may have better control.

22:58:08 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187199 << whoops. My pogo node is the one that is fully synched after today's craziness; it's my 0.7.2 node that is currently stuck..

22:58:08 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:52:19; danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node is at height=363815

22:58:30 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron are yuou up to date ? what's lastblock ?

22:58:41 danielpbarron: height=363856

22:58:41 punkman: I tried heirloom tomatos for a bit. I now know why everyone's using the same boring/bland strain.

22:58:58 mircea_popescu: yeah that' right

22:59:04 mircea_popescu: consider pubnlishing ip if not done so already

22:59:20 danielpbarron: i don't have port forwarded to that machine

22:59:21 mircea_popescu: punkman meanwhile hanbot used to grow cherry tomatoes on her windowsill.

22:59:29 mircea_popescu: like... half pount per six inch tall plant

23:02:11 danielpbarron: aha my isp provided modem/router is working again. will have ip in a moment

23:02:32 danielpbarron: (previously forwarded all ports to one DMZ machine)

23:03:13 hanbot: oh yeah, those windowtomatoes were great.

23:03:29 mod6: <+danielpbarron> height=363856 << your v0.5.3.1ish node has this height?

23:03:46 mircea_popescu: hanbot it still seems thermodynamically impossible.

23:03:58 mircea_popescu: a two ounce leaf can not carry a twelve ounce load!

23:04:19 mircea_popescu: mod6 the blockchain is not compromised.

23:04:24 hanbot: you don't understand the way the windowmato works.

23:04:34 mircea_popescu: just some nodes have trouble unsticking, which as i said above, great place to test our new block manip tools etc.

23:04:44 danielpbarron: mod6, yes

23:04:46 mod6: yeah, read that.

23:05:04 mod6: mp, you're right, should test the new dump/eat tools with the orphan blocks

23:05:15 mod6: see what happens.

23:05:19 mircea_popescu: i still dunno why they do it. i've not yet managed to unstick a stuck one from last night

23:05:20 mod6: danielpbarron: great! thanks

23:05:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80000 @ 0.0005447 = 43.576 BTC [+] {2}

23:05:54 mircea_popescu: superficially it seemed reorg blocks like it did in 2013, but maybe deeper than that. have not yet gone too deep into

23:05:55 punkman: we need something that stores these forks for inspection and replaying. I think ben_vulpes had a thread about that

23:06:09 mircea_popescu: punkman well now we have it! alf wrote the shitblock!

23:06:38 mircea_popescu: this is exactly the sortt of situation the entire deterministic thing he was crowing about is meant for.

23:06:53 mircea_popescu: which, in terms of parachutes.. .you gotta admit... perfect timing

23:07:05 danielpbarron: port 8139 is a fully synched node

23:07:13 mircea_popescu: almost as if someone was holding off hitting the muppets over the head with a 2x4 until b-a crowd had its ducks lined

23:07:19 punkman: yeah but after reorg it throws the things away right? you'd have to shitblock at just the right time

23:07:21 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187574 <<< never had a problem with them down under.. 4-5 day heat wave is the only thing that fucked my tomatoes 2 seasons ago

23:07:21 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 22:58:41; punkman: I tried heirloom tomatos for a bit. I now know why everyone's using the same boring/bland strain.

23:07:30 mircea_popescu: punkman which is why im keeping stuck nodes.

23:07:42 mircea_popescu: the one i originally advertised for instance.

23:07:51 punkman: cazalla: I fucked the up with too much sunlight many times.

23:07:56 mircea_popescu: cazalla did you spray water ?

23:08:55 cazalla: mircea_popescu, nope, good water in the evening and morning but the 4-5 days of 40-44 degree heat toppled em

23:09:10 mircea_popescu: people in heatwave places have these fine nozzles

23:09:25 mircea_popescu: a gallon of water makes half hour's mist, protects the plant if there's any air draft at all

23:09:34 mircea_popescu: otherwise, stews it. which...

23:11:45 cazalla: might've been the uv damage that killed em, i don't really know other than summer 2013 provide no tomatos

23:11:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00054735 = 9.7428 BTC [+]

23:14:09 cazalla: thinking about making some tomato wine this coming summer but from what i've read, it isn't that nice

23:14:39 ben_vulpes: <mats> alright << i'd love a read

23:15:47 punkman: cazalla: might as well get some grapes

23:16:55 cazalla: unfortunately i don't really have a place suitable for a few vines

23:18:10 punkman: cazalla, you can grow a tall vine and have it hang from a pergola type thing

23:18:28 mod6: phf: hey, i was able to apply your patch for OpenBSD onto stator, but I hit this problem after boost compiled: http://dpaste.com/0WRAK16.txt any thoughts?

23:18:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0zgki )

23:19:09 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187419 << this was *so* stupid.

23:19:09 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 22:03:31; mircea_popescu: 3. in order to avoid the situation that happened tonight, a supposed "voting" mechanism was deployed where people switched an irrelevant byte in the blocks they mined, to go from 2 to 3, to indicate they are ready and willing to follow the new rules.

23:19:55 cazalla: punkman, no pergola but we have a clothesline i could commandeer but doubt the missus would like that heh

23:19:56 scoopbot_revived: MPEx (S.MPOE) June 2015 Statement http://fraudsters.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-june-2015-statement/

23:20:36 punkman: cazalla: makes for a nice shade too, http://st.houzz.com/simgs/14316d7f0d69c5f6_4-2255/traditional-landscape.jpg

23:21:00 cazalla: punkman, that's lovely, just wish i had the room :\

23:21:01 punkman: used to have one of these on 2nd floor roof, vine roots at ground floor

23:21:46 punkman: shade's good for the bunnies too, such synergy

23:22:40 cazalla: punkman, killed em off a while ago, might take em up again once i own a larger block of land

23:27:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165384 @ 0.00053421 = 88.3498 BTC [-] {3}

23:28:18 punkman: https://twitter.com/_joac/status/617152001504378880

23:28:38 punkman: "Después de encontrar una vulnerabilidad grave en el sistema de voto electrónico a #MSA estan allanando mi casa, los de delitos informaticos."

23:28:51 punkman: (in argentina)

23:33:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57908 @ 0.00053236 = 30.8279 BTC [-]

23:34:24 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187606 << thank you! very cool.

23:34:24 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 23:07:30; mircea_popescu: punkman which is why im keeping stuck nodes.

23:35:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8306 @ 0.00053236 = 4.4218 BTC [-]

23:35:47 gernika: For any interested: using phf's patch with a few mods for amd64 I have successfully built stator on OpenBSD.

23:35:54 gernika: It is syncing

23:36:13 punkman: gernika: cool

23:36:18 ben_vulpes: so's this phr0k the nail in 20mb blocks' coffin?

23:36:46 punkman: gernika, maybe write up your process/mods

23:37:11 gernika: Will do. Need to sign up for the mailing list.

23:37:19 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: "i sell bitcoins and bitcoin-backed derivatives"

23:37:39 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes myeah.

23:38:32 ben_vulpes: 1mb's too big already.

23:38:36 punkman: didn't need more nails

23:38:38 ben_vulpes: how convenient!

23:39:03 thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: is now known as ben hill

23:39:04 mircea_popescu: <punkman> "Despu?s de encontrar una vulnerabilidad grave en el sistema de voto electr?nico a #MSA estan allanando mi casa, los de delitos informaticos." << in case anyone else missed it, this country is mostly a parody.

23:39:06 ben_vulpes: clearly you don't fight enough zombies

23:39:12 mircea_popescu: gernika well done.

23:39:16 mircea_popescu: !rated gernika

23:39:16 assbot: You have not rated gernika.

23:39:22 mircea_popescu: !rate gernika 1 New blood.

23:39:22 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3cb6bf2132382215

23:39:41 gernika: thanks mircea_popescu

23:39:41 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gernika.1:eb318647a108e0be29f9865dd2fdfb67a3b866e012eab068bab5f31c1d2db831

23:39:41 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gernika with note: New blood.

23:39:41 ben_vulpes: wait gernika's new blood?

23:39:48 mircea_popescu: is to me.

23:40:15 mircea_popescu: <punkman> gernika, maybe write up your process/mods << also a good idea. submit to mail list, now you can.

23:40:40 punkman: he voiced himself, could post at ml already

23:40:57 mircea_popescu: ah right. missed that.

23:42:41 shinohai: @ ben_vulpes did you need anything important when you pinged me earlier? It was like 4 am here, so I missed it

23:44:10 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: from whence this quote ?

23:44:12 pete_dushenski: travis ?

23:45:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187150 << i think this is a bad idea.

23:45:56 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:02:26; punkman: maybe we should add a .conf option that lets whoever really wants it to skip VerifySig between checkpoints

23:46:04 pete_dushenski: alas, some cabin and some party with some people beckon. a demain !

23:46:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187155 << this isn't the right aproach. can you think of any reason TO include it ?

23:46:50 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:04:00; asciilifeform: can't think of any reason not to

23:46:56 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185459 << i don't think this addresses collusion.

23:46:56 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 18:17:00; ascii_field: and shamir for the original poker

23:47:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187156 << how exactly would they do this ? by mining a block ? at this diff ?

23:47:06 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:06:20; punkman: as it is versions will accept blocks of version 1 and 2, allowing shitgnomes to induce forks. what's gonna happen with this?

23:47:23 ben_vulpes: shinohai: wanted to know about your's behavior during the phr0k

23:47:46 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski king of the hill: "i sell cars and car backed securities"

23:47:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:47:49 shinohai: Oh it is still syncing

23:47:52 punkman: mircea_popescu: well it costs 25btc, if they can doublespend more than that somewhere...

23:48:55 mircea_popescu: if that costs 25btc then any chip alf wants costs ~50 cents

23:48:58 mircea_popescu: cause that's "what chips cost"

23:49:38 punkman: yeah that was stupid, never mind

23:49:49 mircea_popescu: im not saying it's not possible, obviously.

23:49:51 punkman: but still, any derpy miner can do this

23:50:29 mircea_popescu: best i can discern, this is not only legitimate, but will be the ultimate end situaiton

23:50:38 mircea_popescu: one day, someone WILL mine a version 1 block that WILL stick.

23:50:52 mircea_popescu: the current power ranger derpitude is like america.

23:51:01 mircea_popescu: "for as long as gargle lasts"

23:51:35 ben_vulpes: eh, alf may actually get to the ada impl before a block v1 sticks again.

23:52:04 mircea_popescu: he might.

23:52:05 mircea_popescu: or he might not.

23:52:08 mircea_popescu: management's about doors.

23:53:02 ben_vulpes: howso?

23:53:18 mircea_popescu: "I shook hands with the man I did most of the talking with and they took off... I was a little shooken up but realized I made a big mistake! I forgot to shake the black police detective's hand... shit!!!"

23:53:24 mircea_popescu: heh. these people... adult infants i swear.

23:53:29 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes not a very good q.

23:54:40 ben_vulpes: d'you mean that management is about "you may do XXX but not YYY" when you say "doors"?

23:55:18 mircea_popescu: no, i mean, sure, maybe x will happen. but then again maybe x won't.

23:55:20 mircea_popescu: like so :

23:56:50 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/old-story/#selection-665.1-665.37

23:56:51 assbot: Old story on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEzPWy )

23:58:15 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185611 << i keep a git repo on disk, i think someone else has one of these running in public as well

23:58:15 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:21:32; mod6: I will work on a patch list and maybe a script later this month. It is a bit hard to follow.

23:59:09 punkman: https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/commits/thermonuke

23:59:10 assbot: Commits · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDVz4L )

23:59:14 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin << i keep the patches in their own directory

23:59:15 assbot: extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDVzlg )

23:59:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187175 << there is a world under the ground we know little about.

23:59:21 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:19:51; punkman: 30k student email list? I scraped like 5mil for leet sv startup last year.