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Transcript for 05-02-2015, 2297 lines:

00:08:03 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot beautyon

00:08:03 assbot: beautyon is not registered in WoT.

00:09:02 BingoBoingo: !gettrust assbot Irdial

00:09:02 assbot: Irdial is not registered in WoT.

00:18:03 mircea_popescu: scoopbot -fetch

00:20:10 mircea_popescu: i guess that's not how that works. anyway : http://fraudsters.com/2015/open-assbot-wot-website/

00:20:11 assbot: [OPEN] Assbot WoT website pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KexrFi )

00:20:20 mircea_popescu: erryone lemme know if you like / want more icecream a la mode.

00:24:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 8000 @ 0.00097074 = 7.7659 BTC [+] {6}

00:25:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2300 @ 0.000971 = 2.2333 BTC [+]

00:34:20 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-01-2015#994929 << what about this cream

00:34:20 assbot: Logged on 28-01-2015 05:29:24; mircea_popescu: adlai so that's how it works. you get some btc, publish your trades, etc.

00:34:40 mircea_popescu: adlai huh ?

00:34:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 10549 @ 0.00095022 = 10.0239 BTC [-] {14}

00:35:27 adlai: i'd like to test scalpl on larger amounts of btc than i have at my personal disposal.

00:35:37 mod6: perhaps what i can do here, is take the copy of the blockchain that i tried to sync day-before yesterday (copied @ ~160000 blocks) and use gdb to try to see what's going on with that that block

00:36:21 mod6: seems to be: 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed ... invalid block=0000000000000a40136b height=168001

00:37:07 mod6: not sure exactly what to be looking for... but turning over a few 'stones' might find something.

00:38:26 kakobrekla: adlai curious, whats the min youd take?

00:39:18 asciilifeform: adlai: why does it have to test on actual live-fire btc anyway?

00:39:21 adlai: depends what's at hand

00:39:57 adlai: because anything else is roughly equivalent to changetip

00:40:02 asciilifeform: adlai: when i laboured under the delusion that i could write a useful trading automaton, i found it simple enough to 'trade' with imaginary btc, gold, etc.

00:40:10 asciilifeform: to see if algo is worth something

00:40:36 adlai: sure, this is possible to implement. that doesn't mean the answers are relevant.

00:40:48 asciilifeform: adlai: let me guess, your machine relies on actually moving the market ?

00:40:51 kakobrekla: this works for fx better than btc

00:40:59 adlai: nope

00:41:23 asciilifeform: then what is the hidden gotcha in testing with imaginary objects ?

00:41:27 decimation: I wouldn't mind trying to run a trade bot but it would involve much tax paperwork in the us

00:41:36 asciilifeform: decimation: 'not caught, not thief'

00:42:07 adlai: decimation: i'm not a lawyer, but i gather from conversations with them that it's a matter of *precisely* documenting the net p/l and paying tax on that

00:42:15 kakobrekla: isnt it 'not thief, caught' in murica ?

00:42:20 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998041

00:42:20 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 04:33:41; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'Явка с повинной облегчает совесть и удлиняет срок.' (ru. jailhouse proverb: 'a guilty plea lightens your conscience and lengthens your sentence.')

00:42:32 asciilifeform: decimation: just avoid fiat...

00:42:49 decimation: adlai: yes, one would have to document each lot traded

00:44:09 kakobrekla: <adlai> depends what's at hand < anyway not helping, ofc you will take whats at hand. if not there, not even the army can take.

00:44:42 adlai: ofc?

00:44:51 kakobrekla: ;;ud ofc

00:44:52 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ofc | Used in Instant Messaging for Of Course (Of Fucking Course if in all caps). " John121: u going to the movie tomorrow?" "Alex33: ofc". by MisterEgo October 09 , ...

00:45:02 adlai: which course?

00:45:17 kakobrekla: south please.

00:45:32 *: adlai is placing offers in the book, not market orders

00:49:08 kakobrekla: i forgot, do you use buttstamp too? if so i have sort of an exploit for their so called trading engine

00:50:14 *: adlai does not

01:06:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108150 @ 0.00038 = 41.097 BTC [+]

01:10:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 196300 @ 0.00038082 = 74.755 BTC [+] {2}

01:19:25 mircea_popescu: adlai ok so what did you have in mind ?

01:19:42 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> adlai: why does it have to test on actual live-fire btc anyway? << so he can make a buck ?

01:21:38 decimation: re: meritwashing < I think the way this plays out in actual us business is that you are friends with someone who controls bezzlars

01:23:07 mircea_popescu: Явка с повинной облегчает совесть и удлиняет сок :D

01:24:31 decimation: heh

01:25:05 adlai: 03:19:17 | [adlai away: zzz]

01:25:08 adlai: 03:19:26 +mircea_popescu | adlai ok so what did you have in mind ?

01:25:21 mircea_popescu: lol

01:25:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101750 @ 0.00037822 = 38.4839 BTC [-] {2}

01:26:17 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-01-2015#994882 << i've been running it on N btc of my own money, how many are you willing to risk?

01:26:17 assbot: Logged on 28-01-2015 05:19:40; mircea_popescu: adlai how much capital were you looking for ?

01:27:14 mircea_popescu: well, if you make a f.mpif pc and report your trades, say daily, and submit monthly sum reports, i dunno, 10 ?

01:28:00 adlai: technically speaking, wouldn't this be simplest accomplished by having you provide me with api keys to an account on, say, btce, and us both publishing a readonly key to that account?

01:28:10 adlai: (this would also be more profitable than other exchanges...)

01:28:37 mircea_popescu: i don't keep accounts on teh scamchanges.

01:29:10 adlai: this necessitates trusting them, even if indirectly

01:29:22 mircea_popescu: nope. it's on you.

01:29:39 mircea_popescu: this is how finance works.

01:38:19 decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/jill-kelley-e-mails-depict-a-striving-tampa-socialite-and-a-smitten-military-brass/2015/02/03/ef8cb06c-a800-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html?hpid=z2 << apparently being a bigshot usg general means you get to handpick 'honorary ambassadors' to serve you meals

01:38:20 assbot: Jill Kelley e-mails depict a striving Tampa socialite and a smitten military brass - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1AubAI0 )

01:38:53 decimation: "Nor has anyone fully explained why Allen, while busy overseeing the war in Afghanistan, exchanged a blizzard of correspondence with Kelley — between 20,000 and 30,000 pages of e-mails, according to some senior defense officials. Other officials have said that figure includes many duplicate notes and exaggerates the extent of their communications, adding that there were only about 300 total e-mails."

01:39:29 decimation: why would some four star usg general spend time to send 300 emails to some lebanese groupie chick?

01:40:08 asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/a/e2RWY << made this quick likbez for the folks here

01:40:09 assbot: JTAG on PogoPlug. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1AubOPz )

01:41:01 *: adlai does some arithmetic

01:42:33 decimation: then I heard this podcast: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/glenn_reynolds.html << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that everybody just loved the job. And

01:42:35 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1Auc9lf )

01:42:35 decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "

01:43:37 decimation: asciilifeform: why do you need jtag? to blow the fuses?

01:43:52 decimation: or for online debugging?

01:44:01 asciilifeform: decimation: lamer reason: it makes reflashing considerably faster.

01:44:08 decimation: ah

01:44:08 asciilifeform: decimation: no need to reboot into a working kernel

01:44:24 asciilifeform: decimation: also lets you play with bootloader safely

01:44:47 asciilifeform: (it is actually possible to reflash the bootloader through serial port alone, but takes forever)

01:44:54 decimation: is that a flash card? can you boot off that?

01:44:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57500 @ 0.00038225 = 21.9794 BTC [+]

01:45:01 asciilifeform: where?

01:45:19 asciilifeform: there's an sd in the slot, yes. you can boot off that, but only if you have a working bootloader

01:45:20 decimation: the little sim-card connector thingy on the left

01:45:23 decimation: ah

01:45:25 mircea_popescu: <decimation> why would some four star usg general spend time to send 300 emails to some lebanese groupie chick? << i wrote like a billion lines in here. why not ?

01:45:43 asciilifeform: also, the bootloader does not automatically find kernels on arbitrary devices, you have to script it

01:45:46 asciilifeform: and it's annoying

01:46:02 decimation: yeah I can imagine

01:46:08 asciilifeform: (has to be told what exactly to initialize and where the offset of kernel is, and length)

01:46:23 asciilifeform: but this is described elsewhere and i will not waste space on it here.

01:46:29 mircea_popescu: chick's so drastically ugly tho...

01:46:33 decimation: one would have to write software to craft the correct binary turd

01:46:35 mircea_popescu: she looks reconstructed out of flotsam.

01:46:50 asciilifeform: as for jtag itself, my current favourite is 'busblaster' - made in singapore

01:46:53 decimation: mircea_popescu: her emails are not particularly intellectually stimulating either

01:47:43 decimation: asciilifeform: you earlier mentioned using a 'bus pirate' for spi connections

01:47:54 asciilifeform: aha

01:48:00 decimation: do you know the max data rate one can continuously suck off the spi?

01:48:07 asciilifeform: 'bus pirate' is dog slow

01:48:08 decimation: the documentation is poor.

01:48:19 asciilifeform: i don't remember the exact rate, no

01:48:32 decimation: I wouldn't mind having a device that interfaces to arbitrary serial ports at reasonable rates

01:48:53 asciilifeform: 'blaster' will do 30+MHz

01:49:29 asciilifeform: it's a little thing with a 'xilinx' fpga (nonvolatile) and 'ftdi' usb2 diddler

01:49:48 asciilifeform: you can repurpose it for something non-jtag-ish easily enough

01:50:03 decimation: ah interesting, one can reprogram the fpga?

01:50:05 asciilifeform: aha

01:50:12 decimation: that sounds useful

01:50:32 asciilifeform: cpld really

01:50:35 asciilifeform: it's an xc2c64a.

01:50:55 asciilifeform: this is not a rare device, they're sold by the megatonne

01:50:59 asciilifeform: on various hobbyist sites

01:51:12 decimation: yeah you would just need a little reprogramming to change the serial output/input state machines

01:51:41 asciilifeform: but if you can build 'openOCD' for your system, this will do everything the 'adult' jtag machines ($xxxxx golden toilets) will.

01:51:49 thestringpuller: scoopbot --fetch

01:52:01 decimation: also, today I was thinking about your rsa-signed-udp-packets thingy

01:52:24 decimation: it struck me that you could probably use one of those edgerouter lites to make a cheap version

01:52:28 thestringpuller: o look a hanbot

01:52:34 asciilifeform: decimation: cheap version of what ?

01:52:35 *: hanbot waves

01:52:48 asciilifeform: decimation: it doesn't need dedicated hardware, strictly speaking

01:52:50 decimation: 'check all incoming udp packets for signature'

01:52:55 decimation: no, but it would be nice

01:52:55 thestringpuller: how are you this evening?

01:52:56 asciilifeform: not all!

01:53:02 asciilifeform: there'd be no room for anything useful

01:53:05 asciilifeform: think.

01:53:19 asciilifeform: assume a 4096 bit key

01:53:33 decimation: you would want enough of a protocol to identify 'possible traffic'

01:53:46 hanbot: thestringpuller sick, but souping out nicely

01:54:22 asciilifeform: decimation: the practical way is to sign 'hello'

01:55:15 asciilifeform: in response to a valid, non-replayed 'hello' (from known pubkey, naturally), machine sends back a single-use rsa pubkey (generated for the occasion) to the requester

01:55:15 thestringpuller: all the fluids! I hope you feel better hanbot !

01:55:31 asciilifeform: who in turn generates a block cipher (symmetric) key for the occasion

01:55:40 asciilifeform: and sends it back to the session pubkey

01:55:57 mircea_popescu: we still doing the symetric cypher thing ?

01:55:57 asciilifeform: machine decrypts this. now both sides have a symmetric key

01:56:15 decimation: yeah but you would want a block cipher that could tolerate lost packets

01:56:20 asciilifeform: decimation: nope

01:56:31 asciilifeform: decimation: embed frame

01:57:38 decimation: what about just signing each packe?

01:59:08 asciilifeform: decimation: assume 4096-bit rsa. and udp mtu (576.)

01:59:14 asciilifeform: also remember that padding exists

01:59:28 asciilifeform: now compute the maximum payload.

01:59:43 decimation: yeah but in exchange you can use a full-broadcast model

02:00:04 asciilifeform: decimation: where do you intend to broadcast?

02:00:51 decimation: well, if ip multicast were functional that would be ideal

02:01:09 asciilifeform: but it isn't.

02:01:54 asciilifeform: also why make the enemy's job easier by transmitting plaintext ever?

02:02:22 asciilifeform: ideally even the 'hello' could be encrypted to the destination's pubkey if you know it (and you ought to)

02:02:37 asciilifeform: no one sitting on the wire should be able to observe anything but garbage.

02:03:06 asciilifeform: to log readers wondering about the purpose of the disposable rsa key: forward secrecy

02:03:35 asciilifeform: lacking this, a captured 'hot' node would allow decryption of traffic captured at an earlier time.

02:03:51 decimation: assuming the programmer properly cleared the old keys

02:04:00 asciilifeform: (this is an elementary method and i did not in any way invent it)

02:04:16 asciilifeform: assuming programmer is not retarded.

02:05:10 decimation: asciilifeform: what about the dream of a persistent global namespace?

02:05:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41448 @ 0.00038233 = 15.8468 BTC [+] {2}

02:05:25 asciilifeform: decimation: how do you suppose it plugs in here ?

02:06:03 decimation: it doesn't. but individually signed packets do.

02:06:35 asciilifeform: you'd have to transmit >mtu packets - or use shorter keys

02:06:37 asciilifeform: neither really appeals

02:07:54 asciilifeform: or rather, if you implement one of the error codings discussed earlier, you can shoot out a small signed gibblet at a time, yes

02:07:59 asciilifeform: and have them reassemble

02:08:30 decimation: I suppose mircea has already described why a 'global namespace' is a poor fit for chat

02:08:51 asciilifeform: 'zooko's triangle' etc

02:09:32 asciilifeform: thing is, if you forget about the 'memorable', there is no triangle.

02:09:37 asciilifeform: all you need is a better memory.

02:09:49 asciilifeform: pgp keys are, in practice, all the global namespace you could ask for.

02:10:05 asciilifeform: nobody's going to generate a colliding key.

02:11:04 decimation: yeah that's a good point

02:27:01 thestringpuller: alf: http://mightyohm.com/files/soldercomic/FullSolderComic_EN.pdf

02:31:05 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: send that back in time to the 9 y.o. me

02:31:35 asciilifeform: !up Vexual

02:32:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52997 @ 0.00038235 = 20.2634 BTC [+]

02:32:42 thestringpuller: i imagine 9 yo you had a giant robot and a laboratory

02:33:26 asciilifeform: no, but had soldering iron

02:36:26 mircea_popescu: hence his ideas about thermocrypto.

02:37:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.my-garage.spb.ru/img/238.jpg << a cryptoanalytic soldering iron.

02:37:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zhxFaZ )

02:37:49 coderwill: hi everybody

02:38:10 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/how-do-the-aparatchicks-live/ << hopefully the entire us civil service reads this.

02:38:10 assbot: How do the aparatchicks live ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zhxLzi )

02:40:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 203950 @ 0.00037822 = 77.138 BTC [-]

02:44:25 coderwill: anyone working on any new projects?

02:45:51 coderwill: i was reading about qntra, btw, that sounds really cool - i like the idea behind it. definitely would love to submit some material, it's going to take me a while to read 6 months of the logs though. :)

02:46:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Years, decades, you've done your part to build the great progressive future... ...the work instead of imaginary devils...' << who said the general necessarily believes in anything other than the fat paycheck (not from army, naturally, but 'consulting' gigs) and cheap whores ?

02:46:31 mircea_popescu: coderwill http://fraudsters.com/category/job-board/

02:46:32 assbot: Page not found pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zhzaGb )

02:46:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if that scrawny harpy is what a fat paycheck buys in the us

02:47:01 mircea_popescu: give me mongolia.

02:47:35 coderwill: mircea_popescu: thanks for the link, must not be any jobs since it 404'd, hehe

02:47:41 mircea_popescu: uh ?!

02:48:03 mircea_popescu: assbot doesn't knoiw what it's talking about.

02:48:17 coderwill: haha

02:48:38 thestringpuller: can asswot graph be in d3?

02:48:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: any reason to think that the particular specimen was the primary whore ?

02:49:06 asciilifeform: could just as easily be a spare.

02:49:40 mircea_popescu: once we're in the camp, i wish to be in the room with alf.

02:49:41 coderwill: also, sorry, didn't mean to just come across like i was looking for work (although this page looks great, thanks). also was just asking for conversational purposes if any new stuff is happening.

02:49:48 mircea_popescu: for clearly it will not be the real camp, but merely a spare one.

02:50:04 *: asciilifeform adjusts stake^H^H^H^Hchair

02:50:05 mircea_popescu: coderwill but more productive for that purpose to read teh logs.

02:50:26 coderwill: mircea_popescu: ok

02:50:36 *: asciilifeform has not met especially many specimens of u.s. military brass, but the ones he saw alive gave the impression of being something quite like professional actors.

02:50:55 mircea_popescu: dead on the inside ?

02:50:57 asciilifeform: just another role, for these folks; all you need - hindbrain.

02:50:58 asciilifeform: aha.

02:51:06 mircea_popescu: lemme show you aman

02:51:21 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_20th_Chief_of_Staff%2C_Lt._Gen._Benny_Gantz.jpg

02:51:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/16r3suI )

02:51:26 mircea_popescu: find me an us counterpart.

02:51:54 asciilifeform: not familiar with this one

02:52:03 mircea_popescu: the jews are ahead.

02:52:06 asciilifeform: or are we just doing physiognomy.

02:52:07 Vexual: GAMMPool spec are a little thin, what do you actually wanna do?

02:52:13 mircea_popescu: we're doing physiognomy.

02:52:32 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea ass graph is pretty big, dont' think 1 in regards to: http://fraudsters.com/2015/open-assbot-wot-website/ will be very pretty

02:52:55 asciilifeform: if physiognomy - not that different from a certain boss's boss i remember

02:53:00 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller like 500-1k points on a 700k field neh.

02:53:55 thestringpuller: http://cookiechief.com/wotviz/ << well even with heavy force the lords are overlap each other. maybe l2 may not be as bad. gimme on sec and I'll update with postive ratings from L2

02:54:26 mircea_popescu: ah you were working on a corner of this weren't you

02:54:37 mircea_popescu: course nothing loads.

02:54:47 thestringpuller: not loading for you?

02:55:09 asciilifeform: but it wouldn't surprise me the least bit to learn that today's u.s. colonels who think too much, tend to retire as colonel

02:55:43 asciilifeform: perhaps mats has something to add to this.

02:55:43 thestringpuller: oh you run noscript don't you?

02:56:58 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller prolly best to imgmagik it into a png or jp

02:57:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking too much is fine, for as long as it's mere spinning, and never productive.

02:57:46 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> thestringpuller prolly best to imgmagik it into a png or jp << Actually used imagemagick 20 minutes ago assembling a document package for qntra post in progress

02:57:49 mircea_popescu: god help the man that a) thinks ; b) gets a result and c) expects the system to CHANGE to accomodate HIS result.

02:58:00 mircea_popescu: the system changes for no man and even less than that for mere thoughts.

02:58:09 mircea_popescu: exactly why the system must be trampled underfoot.

02:58:37 thestringpuller: the graph is interactive via js, dumping to img will take that interactivity away. but if that's "best" yea you could run it and dump out raw svg elements that aren't interactive.

02:59:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't even assume that 'medcom' is really representative of the rest of the american army.

03:00:01 mircea_popescu: can it be interactive via html5 then ?

03:00:40 decimation: mircea_popescu: people who think (the phrase in the us is 'change the system from the inside') are generally beaten down and otherwised smashed by the system

03:01:29 thestringpuller: the <canvas> element still requires js: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_canvas.asp

03:01:55 thestringpuller: i guess for "noscript users" it can precompile to SVG's and they can just stare at it and imagine it being interactive

03:02:03 mircea_popescu: lol

03:02:09 mircea_popescu: can't hurt to degrade

03:02:19 decimation: I think moldbug captured the picture well: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2014#782110 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2014#782111

03:02:19 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2014 20:55:13; decimation: "(I actually have great sympathy for the professional. In a bureaucratic oligarchy like ours, the professional both rules and is ruled. At the top, there is no one on top of him. Yet he cannot change his mind. He would simply be replaced. There are always younger, more eager professionals. Sovereignty is conserved; it is always humans who rule; and yet, it seems that no one rules. Who gets to put

03:02:19 assbot: Logged on 02-08-2014 20:55:15; decimation: stand there, and look like a captain. Chicks dig it. And yes, sir, it sure does pay.)"

03:02:43 mircea_popescu: heh

03:02:48 mircea_popescu: a) what chicks and b) what pay.

03:02:54 decimation: well, see your post

03:03:10 decimation: apparently while you are on a hopeless mission in the desert you can email that 'socialite'

03:03:24 mircea_popescu: i'd rather email a goat.

03:03:47 mircea_popescu: and the unmitigated impudence of these "journalist" shitheads ...

03:04:06 mircea_popescu: tell you what, the fact that he can't round up gawker, atlantic, wp and anyone else who ever wrote his name in print and shoot the lot

03:04:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: b) they're all reasonably loaded (for a clerk) a) they're generally old enough, not necessarily for impotence, but to mostly lack interest.

03:04:16 mircea_popescu: is enough reason to make his profession -ev for a man of ability and intellect.

03:04:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion that old men are not inclined to fuck and the notion that poor people are content with poverty are both nonsense of the first degree.

03:04:52 mircea_popescu: if he could get a better cunt he would,

03:04:58 mircea_popescu: and if he could get two he would get two.

03:05:20 mircea_popescu: it's not like she's some sort of anais nin, this woman.

03:05:30 mircea_popescu: she's readily replaceable with a wooden valet.

03:05:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: impudence... he can't round up... and shoot the lot << remember michael hastings ?

03:06:04 mircea_popescu: (and by the way : kardashian ? WAY better model for any 16 yo girl than this levy sandsack)

03:06:41 mircea_popescu: dude, that's not how this goes.

03:07:09 asciilifeform: http://whowhatwhy.org/2013/07/14/the-michael-hastings-wreck-video-evidence-offers-a-few-clues << for n00bz

03:07:12 assbot: Video: Journalist Murdered? - WhoWhatWhy ... ( http://bit.ly/16r6Vta )

03:07:31 asciilifeform: ^ article picked more or less at random

03:07:49 mircea_popescu: if the question can be asked, it's not in your camp.

03:08:18 mircea_popescu: no dude. send your aide de camp to drag a naked victim behind his horse all the way to your gate and nail them there.

03:08:20 mircea_popescu: that's what i mean.

03:08:40 mircea_popescu: not bs cockless "oh, maybe they spiked his car, maybe they cut his glass stool and he spilled wine on his good tie'

03:08:51 asciilifeform: and general has this prerogative today where? in zimbabwe?

03:09:34 asciilifeform: possibly gaddafi was the last.

03:09:53 asciilifeform: or at least, last until sanity comes back to the planet.

03:10:01 mircea_popescu: i do not care where.

03:10:05 mircea_popescu: without it, the pay is not good enough.

03:10:12 decimation: even he gave up that prerogative in exchange for friendship with usg, that turned out to not serve him very well

03:11:10 asciilifeform: the pay is not good enough << can't disagree

03:12:05 asciilifeform: imagine having to put up with the company of the whole muppet pyramid.

03:12:10 asciilifeform: above and below.

03:12:20 mircea_popescu: let amanda hess go conquer baghdad the 50th time

03:12:39 mircea_popescu: i'll be sure to tweet criticisms of her accessories as she does it.

03:13:26 asciilifeform: in other news,

03:13:29 asciilifeform: 277777.

03:15:11 decimation: re: muppet pyramid: actually gen. stanley mccrystal (whom michael hastings interviewed) pretty much 'gave up' because of the muppet pyramid above

03:15:28 mircea_popescu: yeah well... it's always wise to give up on libertardism when one is 20

03:15:40 mircea_popescu: rather than 50, with 30 years worthless except for that camp's whims.

03:16:03 decimation: hey he went to afghanistan and annoyed some pederasts

03:16:08 mircea_popescu: completely unrelated, "Poe's outlook is at best a wild romanticism and at worst is not far from being insane in the literal clinical sense. Why is it, then that stories like The Black Cat, The Tell-tale Heart, The Fall of the House of Usher and so forth, which might very nearly have been written by a lunatic, do not convey a feeling of falsity?"

03:16:11 mircea_popescu: not a bad question.

03:16:21 asciilifeform: afaik, the generals (and bulk of the war machine) aren't into liberasty as such. they're 'only following orders' (TM)

03:16:27 asciilifeform: i.e. 'it's a job'

03:16:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and how much must your enemy pay you for you to love him ?

03:17:00 decimation: asciilifeform: more than likely they were promoted because they looked especially good with their hand on the captain's wheel

03:17:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do not convey a feeling of falsity << ahahaha. i'm nearing the end of what must be my 5th rereading of mr o's complete output.

03:18:05 mircea_popescu: such patience.

03:18:07 coderwill: do you all things will be more or less the same they are now, geopolitically in the next 5 years, or do you all think they will change drastically?

03:18:20 coderwill: think things*

03:18:26 mircea_popescu: seems dubious the us still has five years left in it.

03:18:27 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

03:18:29 mircea_popescu: the eu, idem.

03:18:33 asciilifeform: coderwill: why do you ask ?

03:18:58 coderwill: asciilifeform: i stopped reading the news because it is so negative

03:19:06 mircea_popescu: he hibernates five years at a time and would like to know if to drink some coffee.

03:21:40 coderwill: i used to worry a lot about what was going to happen in the world, but the things that are happening make no sense

03:21:59 decimation: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fcc-chairman-wheeler-net-neutrality/ << lol "The phone network’s openness did not happen by accident, but by FCC rule. How we precisely deliver that kind of openness for America’s broadband networks has been the subject of a debate over the last several months. "

03:22:01 assbot: FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler: This Is How We Will Ensure Net Neutrality | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1LOjkYW )

03:22:08 mircea_popescu: coderwill as chance would have it, im reading a bit of orwell discussing exactly the same.

03:22:43 coderwill: mircea_popescu: interesting - i'm not sure if it will be similar to orwell, but i just bought a book this afternoon called "the third policeman"

03:22:52 asciilifeform: 'It is as though in the space of ten years we had slid back into the Stone Age. Human types supposedly extinct for centuries, the dancing dervish, the robber chieftain, the Grand Inquisitor, have suddenly reappeared, not as inmates of lunatic asylums, but as the masters of the world.'

03:22:55 mircea_popescu: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part12 chapter iii if you feel like it.

03:22:57 assbot: Fifty Orwell Essays ... ( http://bit.ly/1LOjsYw )

03:22:57 asciilifeform: ('notes on the way')

03:23:08 coderwill: cool thanks for the link

03:23:20 mircea_popescu: extinct eh ?

03:23:33 asciilifeform: supposedly-extinct.

03:24:02 asciilifeform: ^ was really mr o's puzzlement at the failure of own mental model, rather than statement of fact

03:24:16 mircea_popescu: "While I have been writing this essay another European war has broken out. It will either last several years and tear Western civilization to pieces, or it will end inconclusively and prepare the way for yet another war which will do the job once and for all."

03:24:26 mircea_popescu: pretty excellent seeing how it's ww2 he's talking about.

03:25:51 coderwill: mircea_popescu: it's really interesting that his sentiment was that it is either going to be this one or the next one that does us all in

03:26:14 lobbes: mircea_popescu: seems dubious the us still has five years left in it. << would you not agree that it is already dead? A decomposing body still sticks around for some time. Where is the line of 'no longer left'?

03:26:59 mircea_popescu: lobbes well i can agree wiht that, but apparently he doesn't, so when talking to him i'll pretend like perhaps it hasn't.

03:28:55 decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/glenn_reynolds.html << "The parts he likes makes sense and the others are crazy; what do you do? Here's the problem with public officials--because that's really his audience--deciding to ignore the Constitution. If you are the President, if you are a member of Congress, if you are a TSA agent, the only reason why somebody should listen to what you say instead of horse-whipping you out of town

03:28:56 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/16rc58y )

03:28:56 decimation: for your impertinence is because you exercise power via the Constitution. If the Constitution doesn't count, you don't have any legitimate power. You are a thief, a brigand, an officiant busybody, somebody who should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail for trying to exercise power you don't possess. So, if you are going to--if we are going to start ignoring the Constitution, I'm fine with that; the first part I'm

03:28:57 decimation: going to start ignoring is I have to do whatever they say."

03:29:46 asciilifeform: decimation: in practice they 'sit on the bayonets'

03:29:53 asciilifeform: not a piece of parchment.

03:30:08 asciilifeform: as the 'sovereign citizen' crackpots reliably discover

03:30:16 mircea_popescu: decimation quite exactly the trunk that my earlier "half a milion people shoot half a million cops".

03:30:29 mircea_popescu: no constitution ? then quo warranto ? bang-bang.

03:30:31 asciilifeform: (the folks who like to walk into a court waving a copy of american constitution)

03:30:38 decimation: well that crazy guy in pennsylvania tried that, didn't get very far

03:30:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then shoot them.,

03:30:50 mircea_popescu: the only reasonable answer in that context.

03:31:20 decimation: !up Vexual

03:32:24 coderwill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olduvai_theory

03:32:26 assbot: Olduvai theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/16rd1de )

03:32:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a little more complicated than this. just like quite a few folks who have never drawn a proper 'federal' paycheque are really members of usg, quite a few folks (tens of millions) in usa are in fact 'policemen' though they do not know it

03:32:41 coderwill: A few years ago I read a white paper about this thing called the Olduvai Theory.

03:33:00 BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/02/04/angela_ames_sex_discrimination_case_breast_feeding_mom_loses_because_men.html

03:33:02 assbot: Angela Ames sex discrimination case: Breast-feeding mom loses because men can lactate too. ... ( http://bit.ly/16rda0b )

03:33:07 asciilifeform: for instance, the petty criminals who are nurtured and catch-and-released to terrorize the white suburbanites

03:33:16 asciilifeform: (to keep real estate bezzle heated up)

03:33:56 mircea_popescu: i have my doubts about that theory.

03:33:58 coderwill: Essentially, it states that due to population growth and the rate of consumption, and that at some point in the future it will be mathematically implausible for the world to meet the consumption demand.

03:34:09 mircea_popescu: coderwill what demand ?

03:34:11 asciilifeform: you'd need an old-fashioned, 1918-style multi-sided (5+) civil war to turn usa into something thermodynamically stable

03:34:33 coderwill: Food, fresh water, energy

03:35:18 mircea_popescu: people seem manifestly capable of living without food.

03:35:43 coderwill: mircea_popescu: yes, but collectively it ends in geopolitical turmoil, it seems

03:36:03 PeterL: coderwill: that assumes constant population growth

03:36:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, scanning that page it seems that a) it's more of the usual american retardation, ala http://fraudsters.com/2014/anonymous-derpage/ as it simply rebrands a collection of old shit

03:36:25 assbot: Anonymous derpage pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/16re3pG )

03:36:40 mircea_popescu: and b) wtf 2bn. i don't want to consider a 2bn end scenario. what's wrong with 10 million ?

03:37:15 mircea_popescu: i've not even met one million people yet i'd ever wish to meet again, wtf billions.

03:37:34 coderwill: well, hopefully no one will get hurt anywhere, it's awful the state of the world

03:37:50 coderwill: not many people trying to help one another, more so many serving their own interests despite one another

03:38:06 coderwill: hence why i stopped reading the news

03:39:10 mircea_popescu: hopefully no one will get hurt ?!

03:39:11 coderwill: the mass media pushes a divisive agenda, whatever causes the most polarization makes the most profit

03:39:19 mircea_popescu: no baby, hopefully everyone will get hurt

03:39:27 mircea_popescu: and to such a degree they kill their children with their own hands, at that.

03:39:44 coderwill: ?

03:39:57 mircea_popescu: !

03:40:13 mircea_popescu: check us out, brincusi discussing things with hegel.

03:41:12 asciilifeform: here, let me help:

03:41:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-01-2015#964345

03:41:13 assbot: Logged on 04-01-2015 01:02:05; mircea_popescu: apparently kids crying are annoying in general, but for that month it takes them to die of hunger...

03:41:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62250 @ 0.00037661 = 23.444 BTC [-] {2}

03:42:08 mircea_popescu: ten million is plenty.

03:43:52 asciilifeform: that'd be roughly... 3000 b.c. ?

03:46:59 mircea_popescu: something like that. reroll homer.

03:47:43 asciilifeform: while we're at it, i'd like there to be a maximum of six mosquitoes.

03:48:23 asciilifeform: !s tolerate bugs

03:48:24 assbot: 3 results for 'tolerate bugs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tolerate+bugs

03:48:34 lobbes: coderwill: there will always be turmoil. The best thing you can do is look out for your own interests.

03:48:40 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2014#650478

03:48:40 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2014 22:56:06; asciilifeform: 'Dijkstra said angrily. (He?d been visibly shaking his head through out the talk even before this outburst.) ?How many bugs are we going to tolerate?? he demanded. ?Seven,? Teitelman shot back.'

03:49:34 lobbes: asciilifeform: can we apply that to wasps, for that matter?

03:49:53 asciilifeform: etc.

03:51:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: atrocious OCR! 'They hand us now in Shrewsbury jail' << hang.

03:51:35 *: asciilifeform has the dead tree, or would've been a bit puzzled

03:51:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform Uke Miller was a pretty good one too

03:51:56 *: asciilifeform wonders what else crept in

03:52:04 mircea_popescu: tons. most are -> arc

03:53:14 asciilifeform: incidentally, the biggest downer of 'djvu' wavelet compressor is that it... actually introduces typos like this (!)

03:53:37 asciilifeform: a 'c' is quite similar to an 'e' after all, esp. if the press was running a little hot that day

03:53:42 asciilifeform: hence - compressed.

03:53:53 asciilifeform: (introduces into images!)

03:53:58 PeterL: I have a couple of ebooks with typos like that

03:54:06 asciilifeform: PeterL: that'd be bad ocr

03:54:25 asciilifeform: i'm speaking of the reverse, something which no engl. speaker has likely ever seen

03:55:00 PeterL: EG game of thrones, I still don't know if the character's name is Jojen or joien, since it shows up with about equal amounts of each spelling?

03:55:47 mircea_popescu: yup

03:55:53 asciilifeform: PeterL: the former

03:56:18 mircea_popescu: you actually read that thing ?

03:56:24 asciilifeform: tried to, once.

03:56:32 PeterL: I thought it was great

03:56:37 mircea_popescu: o really ?

03:56:52 PeterL: it seems like something you would like?

03:57:06 mircea_popescu: im too snobbish even for sf

03:57:13 asciilifeform: atrociously written thing

03:57:23 asciilifeform: but, oddly enough, tolerable film.

03:57:27 PeterL: in the way of people do what they want and rape each other and kill anybody in their way, etc

03:57:31 asciilifeform: quite the opposite of the usual way around

03:58:38 asciilifeform: !up Vexual

03:58:52 Vexual: black sails is back

03:59:15 Vexual: 'hoes and money and violence an polotx

04:01:30 Vexual: i guess it's gonna try explain the battle for control of nassau

04:06:24 phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, cooperation is common in nature. Even without submission/domination. Examples include Geese taking turns leading migrations, alarm signals (sometimes seen as altruistic), herd/school protection.

04:07:12 phillipsjk: What is rare/non-existent is altruism, which is what I assume you meant here: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2015#1006655

04:07:12 assbot: Logged on 04-02-2015 19:39:56; mircea_popescu: submission is cooperation, just, functional. the sort of cooperation you have in mind is simply not found in nature is all.

04:07:24 mircea_popescu: which of these examples is "without submission/domination" ?

04:08:44 phillipsjk: Did you understand the examples?

04:09:05 mircea_popescu: that's not a question that can be answered.

04:10:21 mircea_popescu: but it would seem to me that even should i decide to take turns with the woman as to who's on top, this does not automatically preclude us from enjoying a D/s relationship.

04:10:25 phillipsjk: Well, with the goose example, the lead bird has to work extra hard to fly through the air. By taking turns, the "leader" does not have to drope dead half-way.

04:10:36 mircea_popescu: tho perhaps some observer may think he understood the example better than the geese

04:10:50 mircea_popescu: sure.

04:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169450 @ 0.00038236 = 64.7909 BTC [+] {2}

04:13:03 mircea_popescu: and to complete your headspin : there is no altruism, either ever seen or in principle possible, outside of a domination/submission relationship.

04:13:11 mircea_popescu: by its very definition, no less. to give, someone has to take.

04:13:56 phillipsjk: You seem to be claiming that hierarchy always forms in groups of animals. Therefore, any non-hierarchical behavior noted just reflects the observer's bias.

04:14:01 mircea_popescu: whosoever takes will take in the manner that it is given, and there you have your submission.

04:14:07 trinque: phillipsjk: have you ever seen geese up close?

04:14:17 trinque: they fight each other and establish dominance ongoingly

04:14:20 mircea_popescu: phillipsjk quite.

04:14:36 mircea_popescu: trinque actually they'll fight you, too. more than one woman got scared shitless of flocks of geese

04:14:44 BingoBoingo: !b 8

04:14:45 assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3EPHQGT.txt )

04:14:45 trinque: yup

04:14:50 mircea_popescu: somehow they think women are also geese.

04:15:02 asciilifeform: geese are pestilentially common here.

04:15:05 mircea_popescu: will try to get them in line, and whatnot.

04:15:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform throughout eastern canada too, or at least were.

04:15:41 decimation: I saw a goose trying to cross an interstate once; it caused a feather explosion

04:15:56 asciilifeform: they like to cross roads, slowly, single file, and - given their lengthy 'runway' - one might imagine that they would occasionally get flattened. but i have yet to see this.

04:17:04 decimation: they are actually a fairly significant object to hit at high speed

04:17:32 asciilifeform: decimation: as per the famous 'frozen turkey test' at airplane factories.

04:17:37 mircea_popescu: can be a decent 20-30kgs sure.

04:18:16 phillipsjk: Um It is my understanding that the turkey is supposed to be thawed for the test.

04:18:58 asciilifeform: thawed << would make sense

04:19:30 mircea_popescu: well it's engineering... if they test with it still frozen

04:19:36 mircea_popescu: stronger airplane.

04:20:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'тяжело в учении легко в бою'

04:20:31 asciilifeform: (bonus: throw that in 'google images')

04:20:35 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: .bait

04:20:38 mircea_popescu: yup

04:20:49 ben_vulpes: (sil vous plait)

04:20:55 mircea_popescu: lol i got nuttin

04:20:58 decimation: re: stronger airplane << can be a problem - what if you want the engine to shut down?

04:21:17 mircea_popescu: http://demotivators.to/media/posters/726/5720776_tyazhelo-v-uchenii-legko-v-boyu.jpg << here, stan's.

04:21:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5AMJ0 )

04:21:20 asciilifeform: http://demotivators.to/media/posters/726/5720776_tyazhelo-v-uchenii-legko-v-boyu.jpg

04:21:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5AMZr )

04:21:22 asciilifeform: lol!

04:21:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu 'inb4'

04:21:47 asciilifeform: http://anekdotov.net/pic/photo6/0744110i.jpg

04:21:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5ATV0 )

04:22:05 mircea_popescu: anekdotov sounds like a great name

04:22:10 mircea_popescu: i'd make him ambassador to the us.

04:22:33 asciilifeform: approx. translation for n00bs - 'the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war.'

04:22:46 mircea_popescu: "train hard - fight easy"

04:22:51 asciilifeform: aha.

04:23:05 mircea_popescu: im a great believer in the principle myself.

04:23:11 mircea_popescu: all the way to making the girls do the cucumbers.

04:25:01 phillipsjk: source of my last comment: http://www.snopes.com/science/cannon.asp

04:25:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5BOol )

04:26:38 mircea_popescu: there's a lot of lulz on that topic.

04:26:40 Vexual: thfe

04:26:51 coderwill: altruism in nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWH_9VRWn8Y

04:26:52 assbot: Penguin, Depressed... Werner Herzog - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5CqdG )

04:26:52 mircea_popescu: like the us borrowed a uk gun, and then trying to understand why the damage was so bad asked the english

04:26:58 mircea_popescu: who told them to thaw the chickens

04:27:00 mircea_popescu: etc etc

04:27:21 Vexual: push dont pull

04:27:28 mircea_popescu: that looks like a dude. scam.

04:27:38 Vexual: ts not even a thing

04:28:29 Vexual: flocculant

04:28:40 asciilifeform: 'what color is is? Just bought a plane and would like to know whats in it.'

04:28:45 asciilifeform: -- from an 'amazon' review.

04:29:08 Vexual: lol

04:29:30 BingoBoingo: !up diatonic

04:30:39 phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, you called it :"The way the Air Force had it figured, if a canopy could survive an impact with a frozen bird, it would certainly live through a chance introduction to one that could still fly under its own power. They further believed cold chickens provided a better simulation of a bird that had tensed to prepare for the impact. "

04:31:27 mircea_popescu: lucky guess.

04:33:24 mircea_popescu: in any case : so called "altruistic" behaviour as perceived by humans in animals is nonsense of a prime order even afore all these discussions. soemthing in the line discussed in http://fraudsters.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same/

04:33:25 assbot: Peripateticists, kinda, except girls not boys, bare cunt instead of toga and walking around the house not the garden, but otherwise exactly the same. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5E92I )

04:33:48 mircea_popescu: "You're thinking of animals based not on interaction with animals, but on interactions with human depictions of animals. Such as animals drawn by a person in a book, "animal" cartoon characters made to resemble people, people in animal plush costumes and so forth. All of this creates in you the false but deep seated impression that animals are residually a sort of people. This is not true. Animals are not at all a sort

04:33:48 mircea_popescu: of people with different characteristics. Animals are animals. It's a thing into itself, not some anthropomorphized cuteness. Fundamentally, we could present the problem in saying that you're a furry."

04:34:01 BingoBoingo: scoopbot: -fetch

04:34:25 asciilifeform: why not obsess over 'altruism' of cells in a multicellular organism ?

04:34:34 asciilifeform: wtf is the thread even about

04:34:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, this thread is about new guy trying to make sense of the batshit insane that is b-a.

04:35:05 asciilifeform: lol

04:35:21 mircea_popescu: can't say i dislike his approach.

04:35:33 decimation: what about the 'altruism' of mitocondria?

04:35:36 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/muckrock-dea-documents-show-parallel-construction-widely-used/

04:35:36 assbot: MuckRock: DEA Documents Show Parallel Construction Widely Used | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5EEK1 )

04:35:47 mircea_popescu: decimation but it's being held captive ?

04:36:01 decimation: it likes to submit to its betters

04:36:10 mircea_popescu: well... biggers, at any case.

04:36:48 trinque: almost done rsyncing my wad o blocks to the server; when I come back in a bit imma publish the first bundle

04:36:50 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007275 << https://github.com/adlai/scalpl

04:36:50 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 02:44:25; coderwill: anyone working on any new projects?

04:36:52 assbot: adlai/scalpl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5EX7I )

04:37:06 trinque: might've taken a while but the end result isn't a piece of shit

04:37:16 mircea_popescu: cool.

04:38:02 BingoBoingo: <decimation> what about the 'altruism' of mitocondria? << It's not altruistic. It is lazy and wants to be fed with minimum effort.

04:38:44 decimation: re: python < so I was comparing guido von rossum and linus torvalds today, found a good quote on hacker news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8772325

04:38:45 assbot: GvR fading away would help but not cure the problem he started, i.e Python desig... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5FmHh )

04:38:59 asciilifeform: re: qntra article 'parallel construction' >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2014#770468

04:38:59 assbot: Logged on 26-07-2014 18:48:15; asciilifeform: this is why i simply don't get people who continue to think of their relationship with the u.s. court system in legal, rather than military, terms.

04:39:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no, it just wants to go on doing what it's best at!

04:39:13 mircea_popescu: pure us capitalims i tell ya

04:39:29 decimation: comparing guido and linus, one finds guido did all the wrong moves

04:40:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Hence the PNGs of the pages and the hashes.

04:40:16 decimation: whatever life python has left is primarily driven by usg academic types

04:40:28 decimation: who use it as a license-free matlab (numpy)

04:40:32 mircea_popescu: decimation except ruby came to peak and then withered before python managed to get a new major version out :D

04:40:43 asciilifeform: decimation: python is widely used as a less-carcinogenic substitute for perl

04:40:47 mircea_popescu: ^

04:40:50 decimation: guido has managed to completely ignore this set in exchange for creating some random dangly bits that no one cares about

04:40:55 *: asciilifeform uses it in that and only that capacity

04:40:58 mircea_popescu: i actually use it on occasion, when bash is gnarly.

04:41:11 asciilifeform: aha. exactly this

04:41:28 decimation: guido could have delivered a better 'non-perl' instead of derping with stupid shit

04:41:31 BingoBoingo: substitute for perl, substitute for matlab, and all of this on version 2. Version 3 is a hostile hardfork.

04:41:46 mircea_popescu: decimation other people's could haves you know...

04:42:10 decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah that's precisely my point

04:42:22 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that was the lulziest thing ever. "we'll break with 2.x but still have 1.x issues"

04:42:48 BingoBoingo: I guess even the scientific stuff though is just acaderps prefering python to perl

04:42:50 decimation: all the 'web developers' have already moved on to node.js or whatever crazy shit of the day

04:43:04 decimation: so guido has no audience other than the one that he is trying hard to ignore

04:44:17 BingoBoingo: He doesn't really have an audience anyway. Python 2.x is fine

04:44:41 mircea_popescu: yeah, what IS the web crowd doing these days ?

04:44:42 BingoBoingo: Well, fine for being a perl substitute

04:44:47 mircea_popescu: i think node.js was like 2011

04:45:08 decimation: I donno, they are probably selling each other software as a service as a service

04:45:12 BingoBoingo: It's still node.js and iterations on that theme.

04:45:19 BingoBoingo: !s ryanxcharles

04:45:20 assbot: 24 results for 'ryanxcharles' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ryanxcharles

04:45:24 mircea_popescu: i think it's ripe for a revolution then

04:45:29 mircea_popescu: it takes them ~3 y.

04:48:00 mircea_popescu: actually julia sounds very interesting, have we discussed yet ?

04:48:10 mircea_popescu: You can see the compiled assembly code for any just typed in function

04:48:26 mircea_popescu: this would be the first compiler brave enough to expose itself to programmer scrutiny thus

04:49:11 mircea_popescu: supposedly faster than c

04:52:51 decimation: huh. interesting

04:52:56 decimation: uses 1 based arrays though :(

04:53:30 BingoBoingo: decimation: Julia is generally aimed in the direction of scientific computing crowd.

04:53:32 mircea_popescu: ianae.

04:54:22 decimation: 1-based arrays are a matlabism, which got it from fortran

04:54:29 mircea_popescu: so they are.

04:54:48 mircea_popescu: still, this is like the first thing i've seen in nigh on 20 years making me almost feel like trying to code in it.

04:57:05 *: adlai wonders whether mircea_popescu has heard of lisp

04:57:27 mircea_popescu: !s lisp

04:57:29 assbot: 487 results for 'lisp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lisp

04:57:34 mircea_popescu: perforce.

04:57:34 adlai: :P

04:58:26 adlai: specifically referring to things like http://www.sbcl.org/1.0/manual/Statistical-Profiler.html#Statistical-Profiler C-f 'disassembler'

04:58:29 assbot: Statistical Profiler - SBCL 1.0 User Manual ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5LejL )

04:58:43 mircea_popescu: im {un/}fortunate to be in this position where thje actual business end of my mental life can in no manner by done by machines. so lisp is entirely useless to me.

04:58:50 adlai: !up Vexual

04:58:55 mircea_popescu: the sorts of tediums i have machines do is generally seen as closest to c

04:59:26 mircea_popescu: practically, closer to bash for that matter.

05:00:40 mircea_popescu: adlai what about the profiler ?

05:01:28 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007633 + sampling data

05:01:28 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 04:48:10; mircea_popescu: You can see the compiled assembly code for any just typed in function

05:01:52 Vexual: all business

05:02:20 mircea_popescu: well obviously profilers exist. just, people seem sorta shy to put the bytestream in your face so.

05:04:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: adlai is correct, any decent modern commonlisp gives you asm/disasm

05:04:28 asciilifeform: sbcl doesn't even -include- an interpreter.

05:04:35 asciilifeform: (and doesn't need one)

05:05:52 mircea_popescu: i never said otherwise!

05:06:34 asciilifeform: * (disassemble '(lambda (x) (+ x 3)))

05:06:34 asciilifeform: ; disassembly for (LAMBDA (X))

05:06:34 asciilifeform: ; 059DF529: 488B55F8 MOV RDX, [RBP-8] ; no-arg-parsing entry point

05:06:34 asciilifeform: ; 2D: BF06000000 MOV EDI, 6

05:06:34 asciilifeform: ; 32: 4C8D1C25E0010020 LEA R11, [#x200001E0] ; GENERIC-+

05:06:35 asciilifeform: ; 3A: 41FFD3 CALL R11

05:06:37 asciilifeform: ; 3D: 480F42E3 CMOVB RSP, RBX

05:06:39 asciilifeform: ; 41: 488BE5 MOV RSP, RBP

05:06:41 asciilifeform: ; 44: F8 CLC

05:06:41 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU6lQGbr_SU

05:06:43 asciilifeform: ; 45: 5D POP RBP

05:06:45 asciilifeform: ; 46: C3 RET

05:06:47 asciilifeform: ; 47: CC0A BREAK 10 ; error trap

05:06:49 asciilifeform: ; 49: 02 BYTE #X02

05:06:51 asciilifeform: ; 4A: 18 BYTE #X18 ; INVALID-ARG-COUNT-ERROR

05:06:55 asciilifeform: ; 4B: 54 BYTE #X54 ; RCX

05:06:57 asciilifeform: NIL

05:06:59 asciilifeform: ^ example

05:07:01 asciilifeform: (amd64, for the very unalert reader)

05:07:06 decimation: lol @ vexual

05:07:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112120 @ 0.00037463 = 42.0035 BTC [-] {2}

05:07:24 Vexual: such interjection

05:07:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that asm code breaks on https << unknown instruction

05:08:11 asciilifeform: lol!

05:08:27 asciilifeform: Vexual wins again.

05:08:51 mircea_popescu: incidentally this is a shitty asm!

05:10:09 asciilifeform: * (defun foo (x) (declare (fixnum x)) (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) (+ x 3))

05:10:09 asciilifeform: FOO

05:10:09 asciilifeform: * (disassemble 'foo)

05:10:09 asciilifeform: ; disassembly for FOO

05:10:09 asciilifeform: ; 059E2CC2: 488D4203 LEA RAX, [RDX+3] ; no-arg-parsing entry point

05:10:10 asciilifeform: ; C6: 486BD002 IMUL RDX, RAX, 2

05:10:12 asciilifeform: ; CA: 710E JNO L0

05:10:14 asciilifeform: ; CC: 488BD0 MOV RDX, RAX

05:10:16 asciilifeform: ; CF: 4C8D1C25D0050020 LEA R11, [#x200005D0] ; ALLOC-SIGNED-BIGNUM-IN-RDX

05:10:18 asciilifeform: ; D7: 41FFD3 CALL R11

05:10:20 asciilifeform: ; DA: L0: 488BE5 MOV RSP, RBP

05:10:21 asciilifeform: ; DD: F8 CLC

05:10:26 asciilifeform: ; DE: 5D POP RBP

05:10:28 asciilifeform: ; DF: C3 RET

05:10:30 asciilifeform: NIL

05:10:32 asciilifeform: ^ here we've pulled the safety out.

05:10:43 ben_vulpes: groovy jams Vexual

05:10:53 asciilifeform: this gives us around 80-95% of 'c' speed

05:10:58 asciilifeform: (in typical case)

05:12:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1) it's a disasm 2) you won't see what you're almost certainly expecting to see (add rax, 3...) , because lispy memory architecture is still in use

05:12:15 mircea_popescu: moar like the evil one's used to

05:13:20 asciilifeform: i won't say this is the world's best illustration, but it took no more than half a minute to generate.

05:13:45 asciilifeform: perhaps adlai would care to offer a neater one.

05:14:14 Vexual: thanks ben_vulpes

05:14:58 ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot Vexual

05:14:58 assbot: Vexual is not registered in WoT.

05:15:04 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot Vexual

05:15:05 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never

05:15:21 Vexual: fuck off cnt

05:15:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69580 @ 0.0003735 = 25.9881 BTC [-]

05:15:22 ben_vulpes: first citizen of -assets

05:15:34 ben_vulpes: up yours, buddhi

05:15:59 decimation: I am retiring gentlemen, have a good evening

05:16:02 decimation: !down decimation

05:16:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the original point wasn't that there don't exist profilers, but that it's rare for a language to put the bytecode in the programmer's face, and especially for a new and (at least in my perception) hip one.

05:16:38 mircea_popescu: you'd normally expect the opposite

05:16:45 asciilifeform: lol, 'java' barfed bytecode routinely (on debug)

05:16:56 asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel

05:16:56 mircea_popescu: wasn't this improved out of it ?

05:16:59 gabriel_laddel: ty

05:17:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was

05:17:08 mircea_popescu: kinda my point.

05:17:56 ben_vulpes: good evening gabriel_laddel!

05:18:04 gabriel_laddel: regarding the preceding discussion on asm, common lisp vs. julia vs. C, the book Let over Lambda is quite good and discusses these and related issues in-depth.

05:18:06 mircea_popescu: an' tbh it wasn't much more than a passing remark anyway, so we've made more of it than its frail back can carry

05:18:22 *: asciilifeform read 'let over lambda', was not terribly thrilled

05:18:28 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: Hello. How is life treating you?

05:19:02 asciilifeform: that book had possibly the spammiest jacket, for reasonably sane subject matter, of any crackpot self-pub work ever printed.

05:19:09 *: asciilifeform blows dust off LOL

05:19:40 asciilifeform: 'only the top percentile of programmers... if you can understand this book, you are in the top...'

05:20:05 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: lol. The idea of a closure doesn't need to be stretched out across several chapters, but e.g., the cl-ppcre chapter is good for the non-lisper to read.

05:20:14 ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: i yet yearn for the day i dual boot os x and a lispy gentoo

05:20:29 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I'm currently counting lines of algol and fixing up the dashboard

05:20:34 adlai: http://paste.lisp.org/+34DL

05:20:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5SQTm )

05:20:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sbcl runs entirely without problem on mac os

05:21:00 *: ben_vulpes resists temptation to troll alf

05:21:06 ben_vulpes: i know, i know.

05:21:26 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: can you run gentoo on your macbook?

05:21:27 ben_vulpes: but that which gabriel_laddel described was a damned siren song for a boy who grew up on os x.

05:21:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176250 @ 0.00038187 = 67.3046 BTC [+] {3}

05:21:28 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: laugh, but that's actually what i used mine for

05:21:37 *: asciilifeform blows dust off 'macbook air'

05:22:04 Vexual: powerpc?

05:22:06 ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: for a gentoo like what you describe, i'd go through the headaches of dual booting.

05:22:19 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why not sbcl on gentoo?

05:22:42 asciilifeform: on strange iron?

05:23:00 ben_vulpes: forgive me, but is it all not strange?

05:23:23 ben_vulpes: i'm entirely naive to quirks of the underlying chips.

05:23:32 asciilifeform: anyone even has suspend-to-ram working on linux-on-apple ?

05:23:39 asciilifeform: gpu?

05:23:59 asciilifeform: the demented 'broadcom' wireless nics?

05:24:05 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: okay okay!

05:24:07 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOLJx0qoiNs

05:24:15 ben_vulpes: what do you mean by "strange iron", though?

05:24:19 asciilifeform: actually for all i know, they might

05:24:28 asciilifeform: it was long ago that i last tried.

05:24:45 asciilifeform: strange iron being, say, that very same 'air' (circa '09)

05:25:03 asciilifeform: as in 'that which few have gentood before'

05:25:08 Vexual: yah mean safari?

05:25:17 ben_vulpes: is the point to run sbcl on "strange iron"?

05:25:43 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i somehow got the impression that you were considering gentoo-on-applehw

05:25:53 gabriel_laddel: that is what he's considering.

05:25:57 ben_vulpes: myeah, but i think i missed a leap in your reasoning.

05:26:19 Vexual: do tell

05:26:28 asciilifeform: describing the gotchas from the last time i personally tried this.

05:26:33 ben_vulpes: ah.

05:26:35 asciilifeform: not necessarily current.

05:27:10 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: sbcl runs entirely without problem on mac os << so as to say "why bother with gentoo?"?

05:27:45 asciilifeform: in case ben_vulpes wants to play with it on one of his existing stock macs

05:28:34 ben_vulpes: i'm using sbcl for stump, now that we mention it

05:28:40 mod6: ok all, not getting much of anywhere with debugging.

05:28:41 asciilifeform: on what?

05:28:51 asciilifeform: (stump on mac?!?)

05:29:03 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: :D

05:29:25 asciilifeform: lol!

05:29:30 asciilifeform: this actually works as expected ?

05:29:32 ben_vulpes: why so amuse?

05:29:35 ben_vulpes: well

05:29:38 ben_vulpes: "as expected"

05:29:41 asciilifeform: or only within a running x11

05:29:42 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

05:29:57 ben_vulpes: mas tracks sil vous plait Vexual

05:30:05 Vexual: oui

05:30:09 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: only within x11

05:30:15 Vexual: yah long bit

05:30:19 asciilifeform: ah then

05:30:23 *: asciilifeform was about to be surprised

05:30:24 mod6: i've basically run and break when nBestHeight=167999 and then go from there, but not turning anything meaningful up yet. however, i'm sure i'm not sure how to dig into these vectors properly yet.

05:30:27 ben_vulpes: why would one bother with the native cruftery?

05:31:16 mod6: i'll carry on tomorrow. im like X_X at this point.

05:31:46 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i can't help but wonder how many folks carry around 'mac' as just a unix box with a very peculiar set of window decorations

05:31:55 mircea_popescu: here asciilifeform : "I never read the proclamations of generals before battle, the speeches of F?hrers and prime ministers, the solidarity songs of public schools and left-wing political parties, national anthems, Temperance tracts, papal encyclicals and sermons against gambling and contraception, without seeming to hear in the background a chorus of raspberries from all the millions of common men to whom these high

05:31:55 mircea_popescu: sentiments make no appeal. Nevertheless the high sentiments always win in the end, leaders who offer blood, toil, tears and sweat always get more out of their followers than those who offer safety and a good time. When it comes to the pinch, human beings are heroic. Women face childbed and the scrubbing brush, revolutionaries keep their mouths shut in the torture chamber, battleships go down with their guns still firin

05:31:56 mircea_popescu: g when their decks are awash. It is only that the other element in man, the lazy, cowardly, debt-bilking adulterer who is inside all of us, can never be suppressed altogether and needs a hearing occasionally."

05:31:57 asciilifeform: guessing - quite a few

05:32:04 mircea_popescu: a damned sight more optimistic than you, this pessimist

05:32:34 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i did burn in excess of two days attempting to get either a firefox or chrome to connect to x under os x

05:32:38 ben_vulpes: net result?

05:32:40 ben_vulpes: total failure.

05:32:49 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOLJx0qoiNs

05:33:00 ben_vulpes: Vexual: stale.

05:33:06 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the idea with the native cruftery is, he found a reliable way to wedge the bitcoind at a certain heright which just so happens to be the checkpoint

05:33:06 Vexual: penis you

05:33:18 mircea_popescu: but no one else ever ehard of this, and so we wish to see his block

05:33:19 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'll have to compile it meself, apparently.

05:33:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i assume you built them for x11

05:33:28 asciilifeform: or ^

05:33:38 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where did you get them?!

05:33:39 ben_vulpes: mno, i am a nixy pleb

05:33:48 Vexual: liar

05:34:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually this very wedge (though differing tx id) has been documented in the past. see last night's log.

05:34:52 ben_vulpes: while it must surprise everyone here, the fact that i am a process man who's only barely grasped the basics of *nix operation bears trotting out on a *regular* basis apparently

05:34:56 mircea_popescu: well is it the same ?

05:34:59 asciilifeform: but afaik no one posted a meaningful dumped block

05:35:07 mircea_popescu: right.

05:35:25 mod6: how can i do that?

05:35:30 mod6: need guidence

05:35:52 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you were trying to get $proggy built for apple's gui to draw on an x11 instance, i regret to inform you that this won't work...

05:36:10 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: your lessons come too late, sir!

05:36:34 asciilifeform: http://geekotic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/image37.png << these do work

05:36:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5Xxg5 )

05:36:40 ben_vulpes: instead, instruct me on the arcane art of dumping specific blocks from a bitcoind 0.5.3

05:36:45 asciilifeform: http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/img/idekiller.jpg << as do these

05:36:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5XzVc )

05:37:33 Vexual: 053 becomes a thing

05:37:52 mircea_popescu: if the worst comes to worst diff blk00x.dat pre and post

05:37:58 asciilifeform: ^

05:38:06 mircea_popescu: also blkindex.dat

05:38:26 ben_vulpes: tips on running for precisely a single block?

05:38:53 mircea_popescu: there should also be a bdb based method but it probably would take longer to untangle

05:39:22 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes have a logwatcher trigger ? renice everyything ?

05:39:43 mod6: during debugging, i did see something that mentioned "blk%04d.dat" when looking at the txout.scriptPubKey vector: http://dpaste.com/1E4QQ9A

05:39:45 assbot: dpaste: 1E4QQ9A ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5Yp4d )

05:39:51 mod6: think that's the one to check?

05:40:42 mircea_popescu: mod6 they become full at 2gb

05:40:48 mircea_popescu: whichever's not 2gb is the one you're working on

05:40:49 mod6: (This was from inside where it does VerifySignature())

05:41:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, that's all for me. nighty!

05:42:21 mod6: looks like 'i've only got 1: blk0001.dat, 985Mb

05:42:48 mod6: anyway, thanks guise.

05:44:06 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwGWJMM740

05:44:16 ben_vulpes: pfff

05:48:57 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvcdEx-kdSk so jazzy

05:51:17 Vexual: stil drink peroni

05:51:22 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> chick's so drastically ugly tho... << pretty indicative of the tail to which us brass has access

05:52:57 ben_vulpes: maaaaaas, Vexual

05:52:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50620 @ 0.0003758 = 19.023 BTC [-] {2}

05:54:30 Vexual: ja neber descibe

05:58:18 cazalla: oh that argentine pres.. what a racist! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/04/argentinian-president-racist-joke-china-trip

05:58:20 assbot: Argentina's president Cristina Kirchner attacked for 'racist' Chinese joke | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1I63Ikf )

05:58:33 punkman: I setup a 0.5.3.1 node yesterday, stuck on 168000 today

05:59:00 ben_vulpes: thanks for the repro, punkman

05:59:17 punkman: (on debian wheezy, rev_bump patch)

05:59:47 ben_vulpes: would you be a dear and sync an unmolested 0.5.3?

05:59:53 ben_vulpes: with a known-good blocksource?

06:01:08 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

06:01:14 phillipsjk: I don't think 0.5.3 supports bootstrap.dat, but I could be wrong.

06:01:46 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: what does bootstrap.dat have to do with anything?

06:03:05 BingoBoingo: Everyone who wanted qntra to have a category page http://qntra.net/categories/ now lives

06:03:05 assbot: Categories | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1I65hi8 )

06:03:23 ben_vulpes: oh, d'ja hack the whoopies BingoBoingo?

06:03:27 punkman: ben_vulpes: what's a known-good blocksource?

06:03:58 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] a) what chicks and b) what pay. << i can speak to the chicks

06:04:01 ben_vulpes: the pay, not so much

06:04:05 asciilifeform: http://www.ussiowa.org/general/html/willie_d.htm << of historical interest, re: fdr and u.s. brass

06:04:07 assbot: The Willie D ... ( http://bit.ly/1I65D8o )

06:04:08 danielpbarron: here's some progress: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-build-nohup-tail.txt <- http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-build.sh.txt

06:04:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I65G48 )

06:04:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I65DFj )

06:04:25 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Nah, hand listed at least for now. Over the next month or two will work on making categories more useful for browsing since mike_c wanted it so

06:04:37 ben_vulpes: punkman: using addnode= to add a node from which to pull the blocks

06:05:00 punkman: ben_vulpes: I had one of BingoBoingo's nodes plus dnsseed

06:05:02 asciilifeform: 'the new state-of-the-art destroyer, her ambitious captain and seemingly fumbling crew were placed under arrest and sent to Bermuda for trial. it was the first time in the history of the United States Navy that an entire ship and her company had been arrested. The William D. Porter was surrounded by Marines when it docked in Bermuda and was held there for several days as the closed-session inquiry attempted to find out what ha

06:05:02 asciilifeform: d happened.'

06:06:42 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TzGV6YNmEM << what is this shit Vexual

06:06:43 assbot: Bok van Blerk - Land van Melk en Heuning (AMPTELIKE HD MUSIEK VIDEO) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I66qGt )

06:08:49 trinque: asciilifeform: I once finished gentoo quest on a two-generations-back macbook pro

06:08:57 *: trinque laments his misspent youth

06:09:19 asciilifeform: trinque: finished in the sense of there not remaining a single peripheral that could be described as not entirely working to spec ?

06:09:28 asciilifeform: even, e.g., power management ?

06:09:30 trinque: yep

06:09:33 asciilifeform: neato.

06:09:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ^

06:09:49 trinque: I still have the kernel config somewheres

06:10:03 trinque: that said fuck that shit; I'm sure there's an easier machine to deal with

06:10:41 trinque: and that is decidedly not anything lenovo's squeezed out recently

06:11:40 ben_vulpes: oh asciilifeform that's a great story

06:12:13 asciilifeform: trinque: ever found the 'easier machine' ?

06:12:23 punkman: jurov: https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A10/A10-OLinuXino-LIME/open-source-hardware guess we'll end up with this << I had one of these. It doesn't have wifi or built-in NAND, has SATA, can run off battery. Doesn't need binary blobs if you don't care about GPU.

06:12:24 assbot: A10-OLinuXino-LIME - Open Source Hardware Board ... ( http://bit.ly/1I68gak )

06:12:31 trinque: asciilifeform: nah, tis but the rambling of an addict who will never find his fix

06:12:36 punkman: but also it died the other day, and no warranty

06:12:45 asciilifeform: punkman: unfortunately - expensive. and no chassis/powersupply

06:12:50 trinque: -or- when the hell do I get a dataflowputer

06:12:52 trinque: :D

06:13:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129202 @ 0.00036638 = 47.337 BTC [-] {2}

06:13:38 trinque: I was thinking my love of relational databases (view composition, etc) would map to that model pretty well

06:20:23 trinque: there's this idea of streaming queries that's been kicked around a bit

06:20:31 trinque: sounds sort of like what I read on loper

06:21:01 asciilifeform: when you plug a lamp into a mains socket, is that also a 'streaming query' ?

06:22:41 ben_vulpes: every night these koans

06:22:52 ben_vulpes: every night my tiny brain

06:23:12 trinque: zen stick's good for ya, haha

06:24:53 trinque: asciilifeform: yes, the power has been declared to be, then the lamp may make use of that fact as it does

06:25:11 trinque: vs say asking "hm, at this point in time are there electrons moving in this wire?" *plug* "Yes." *unplug*

06:25:46 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> when you plug a lamp into a mains socket, is that also a 'streaming query' ? << For some kinds of lamp sure.

06:26:02 asciilifeform: except that this is an astonishingly abstruse model for what the lamp/socket do.

06:26:08 trinque: select * from qntra; -- streaming version would give me new articles that occur after the query was begun

06:26:19 asciilifeform: that nobody in his right mind would normally suggest.

06:26:32 asciilifeform: why, then, suggest it for a computer program?

06:27:08 trinque: why suggest relational modeling?

06:27:16 trinque: lots of reasons treated by smarter guys than myself

06:27:19 asciilifeform: 'streaming query'

06:27:43 trinque: "new shit came to light"

06:28:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What of lamps that monitor/diagnose issues with mains power, totally a query.

06:28:36 asciilifeform: what of airplane propelled via pilot's farts.

06:28:54 trinque: BingoBoingo: or say I only read when the light is on

06:29:19 trinque: the reactive model of just firing up reading when there's some light to do it by is nice

06:29:25 ben_vulpes: <Vexual> [] 'hoes and money and violence an polotx << legendary

06:29:53 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> what of airplane propelled via pilot's farts. << If pilot is gassy enough why not? Optimize diet for flight.

06:30:05 asciilifeform: or let's have water polling bottle on what shape to be.

06:30:24 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] trinque actually they'll fight you, too. more than one woman got scared shitless of flocks of geese << this one time i was eating a burrito on the waterfront

06:30:31 ben_vulpes: idling by my bicycle

06:30:39 ben_vulpes: doing nothing of import, minding my own business

06:30:49 ben_vulpes: goose *catches my eye*!

06:30:52 phillipsjk: DeathAndTaxes on bitcoin talk made a detailed post explaining why the 1MB block size in not good for anything other than inter-bank transfers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0 He estimetes 2-4 TPS basked on the last million transactions

06:30:53 assbot: Permanently keeping the 1MB (anti-spam) restriction is a great idea ... ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6edUF )

06:30:55 ben_vulpes: i shit you not it makes eye contact

06:31:06 ben_vulpes: and then proceeeds to march over to intimidate me

06:31:20 trinque: ben_vulpes: "bitch!" spans many species, lol

06:31:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212700 @ 0.00036541 = 77.7227 BTC [-] {4}

06:31:38 phillipsjk: !gettrust Deathandtaxes

06:31:38 assbot: Deathandtaxes is not registered in WoT.

06:31:43 asciilifeform: exercise for student: when you wake up, think of six entirely factually-correct - but disastrously intellectually-crippling - models for some commonplace thing or other.

06:31:56 ben_vulpes: now i can't quite beat the thing senseless with my helmet as, well, ussa

06:32:07 phillipsjk: s/basked/based

06:32:13 ben_vulpes: conclusion of story left for reader

06:32:15 trinque: asciilifeform: I'll do it while wiping my paper with ass

06:32:23 asciilifeform: !b 5

06:32:23 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09VBVWZ.txt )

06:33:25 ben_vulpes: and lo, i am logged.

06:33:31 ben_vulpes: my toy bitcoinds, wedged.

06:33:42 *: asciilifeform off to indent a bed.

06:33:49 ben_vulpes: my girl, somnulent.

06:33:58 trinque: my booze, gone

06:34:06 ben_vulpes: mine is not!

06:34:10 ben_vulpes: although i have no fags left

06:34:20 *: ben_vulpes elbows trinque

06:34:48 ben_vulpes: smokes, let's go!

06:35:33 trinque: ben_vulpes: I'm deedbottin

06:35:55 trinque: to-night!

06:36:16 ben_vulpes: get it done!

06:36:29 trinque: let me get the thing to publish once and I'll see if you're still up for a cig

06:37:05 ben_vulpes: go go go

06:37:07 ben_vulpes: i've got...

06:37:14 ben_vulpes: a glass of tinto left?

06:37:36 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or let's have water polling bottle on what shape to be. <<Water is perfect for polling bottle of its volume

06:39:10 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> now i can't quite beat the thing senseless with my helmet as, well, ussa << disappeared into sack?

06:40:47 trinque: BingoBoingo: he'd be arrested for... fowl molestation

06:41:35 BingoBoingo: trinque: I mean bird disappears into his sack, not his sack disappeared into bird for a bit.

06:44:24 ben_vulpes: http://bernardlunn.com/2015/02/03/change-the-bank-by-importing-startup-culture/ << makes muh brain hurt

06:44:26 assbot: Change The Bank By Importing StartUp Culture | Fintech by Bernard Lunn ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6i0kE )

06:45:39 trinque: ben_vulpes: hah yes let the banks imitate the fucking valley

06:45:42 trinque: please do

06:46:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16989 @ 0.00037081 = 6.2997 BTC [+]

06:47:32 punkman: damn, 200mb debug.log

06:47:49 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the last million transactions are probably by volume idiocy spawned by wallets that inhibit address reuse

06:47:54 ben_vulpes: !gettrust phillipsjk

06:47:54 assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user phillipsjk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/phillipsjk | http://w.b-a.link/user/phillipsjk

06:48:09 ben_vulpes: from namworld?

06:48:13 ben_vulpes: are you fucking kidding me?

06:48:32 punkman: ben_vulpes, I'm working on "1-click" deploy/build/run/log ansible playbook

06:49:43 phillipsjk: ;;later tell mircea_popescu I sincerely hope the 1MB line in the sand is not simply a power-trip.

06:49:43 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:49:58 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: who are you anyways?

06:50:00 phillipsjk: ben_vulpes, got imported from gribble. I trade with him

06:50:08 ben_vulpes: yeah no clearly i can read that much

06:50:09 phillipsjk: *traded

06:50:29 ben_vulpes: no need to summarize your *one* rating for me.

06:50:38 phillipsjk: http://phillipsjk.ca/resume2014.html

06:50:39 assbot: Resume for James Phillips ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6k3Fm )

06:51:10 ben_vulpes: absolutely none of this qualifies you to have an opinion about block size.

06:51:36 phillipsjk: Not even my 2 year electronic program or running a node for a year?

06:52:00 ben_vulpes: no, not at all.

06:52:12 ben_vulpes: ./bitcoind -datadir=my_butt/ -daemon

06:52:34 ben_vulpes: no more than merely existing gives you a say in how the world works.

06:52:46 trinque: b-b-but my pulse!

06:52:55 ben_vulpes: back to the deeds, you

06:53:14 ben_vulpes: don't make me finish this bottle aone, trinque

06:53:21 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot muxne

06:53:21 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user muxne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=muxne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=muxne | Rated since: Sun Jun 22 00:11:14 2014

06:53:24 trinque: :( sad thought

06:53:33 ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot muxne

06:53:33 assbot: muxne is not registered in WoT.

06:53:37 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla:

06:53:48 ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?

06:53:58 punkman: ^ no gpg key

06:54:17 punkman: !up Vexual

06:54:53 ben_vulpes: ah ha

06:56:15 phillipsjk: Well, if I ever get my Money Service Business registered, I will let you know.

06:56:54 ben_vulpes: dude

06:56:57 ben_vulpes: you're not registering shit

06:57:01 *: phillipsjk has not worke on that in like 75 days months

06:57:37 ben_vulpes: the mind boggles.

06:58:09 ben_vulpes: why'd i think that a thing you've dropped for 2.5 months would ever see any action?

06:58:14 Vexual: what are you actually trying to do?

06:58:26 ben_vulpes: Vexual: tunes, let's go

06:59:04 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-YJ3z4oPrI pearler

06:59:09 phillipsjk: Buy and sell BItcoin following the *letter* of the law. I am passive-aggressive that way.

06:59:16 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fEGY3x3dMI

06:59:17 assbot: Black Sails OST - The Golden Vanity (feat Doug Lacy) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zCaiaV )

06:59:25 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the san-serif headers are kinda..bleh

06:59:40 Vexual: that got elanors tits? punkman?

07:00:10 punkman: no tits

07:01:37 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: well pipe down, read logs, learn something and then start derping about "power trips"

07:01:50 Vexual: ross about to get sentenced

07:02:17 ben_vulpes: bitcoin is a rare, scarce, unpollutable thing unlike everything else under the domain of the fiat tyrants.

07:03:07 ben_vulpes: the 1mb line is about preserving that scarcity in the face of all who'd turn gold into paper in Schwabe accounts and make your dollar into ninety cents tomorrow.

07:05:11 ben_vulpes: even though all i can ever aspire to own in terms of vehicle is that crown jewel in the plastic bezzle crown (the honda element), i yet recognize those valuable scarce and uncounterfeitable things like bitcoin and well-husbanded women.

07:05:22 phillipsjk: The problem is with 1MB blocks, Bitcoin will only be used for inter-bank settlements. Either that, or remain a niche. We are talking less than 1 million users world-wide.

07:06:08 ben_vulpes: you've made no argument as to this 1e6 number.

07:06:26 danielpbarron: how is that even a problem?

07:06:30 phillipsjk: Death and taxes made a table.

07:06:43 trinque: /markov

07:06:48 ben_vulpes: dpaste it

07:06:48 Vexual: penis

07:06:56 ben_vulpes: i know no death and taxes

07:07:00 ben_vulpes: forum posts carry no weight here.

07:07:16 ben_vulpes: a table lol do mine eyes deceive me

07:07:25 ben_vulpes: trinque: i pour!

07:07:40 Vexual: look at my codebus dls

07:07:54 trinque: I'm at like 37% of rsync'ing leveldb turds up to the server

07:08:04 trinque: ben_vulpes: better just finish that yerself

07:08:07 ben_vulpes: bwahaha

07:08:11 danielpbarron: it's not that banks are bad; it's that fiat is bad. A bitcoin bank could work well. A service that holds bitcoin for you and lets you spend it with a debit card or something

07:09:37 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: anyone who could hold bitcoin (in the sense of actually controlling their keys, robustly) should trivially be able to wield either credit cards or local fiat

07:10:23 phillipsjk: https://dpaste.de/oUck Quadruple the numbers for 8TPS

07:10:24 assbot: dpaste.de: Snippet #302180 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6pMeu )

07:11:22 trinque: phillipsjk: dem stats is not the fucking point

07:11:34 trinque: what TPS will the network do if it fails entirely?

07:11:48 ben_vulpes: no no no no no

07:11:52 trinque: or hell, let me run trinquecoin from my laptop; I'll be the whole network

07:11:53 phillipsjk: well, that would be about 0.

07:12:02 trinque: and I'll do a goddamn million tps

07:12:19 ben_vulpes: bitcoin is a store of value and a way to move money around without governmental interference.

07:12:26 ben_vulpes: it is not visa, ffs.

07:12:30 ben_vulpes: it is not mastercard.

07:12:34 ben_vulpes: it is not even swift.

07:12:43 ben_vulpes: if you touch bitcoin, you are going up against the fiat state. end of story.

07:12:44 trinque: GOLD.

07:12:47 trinque: get your forklift

07:12:59 phillipsjk: How many transaction per decade do you expect people to need?

07:13:05 danielpbarron: i feel like this confusion phillipsjk is having would be easily resolved by reading the log for 6 months or so :p

07:13:13 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: right?

07:13:30 ben_vulpes: too bad he insists on waltzing in here and telling us about how the proletariat must transact in bitcoin several times per year.

07:13:46 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: proles will be lucky to buy a fraction of a bitcoin once per decade.

07:14:39 phillipsjk: The top 1% will be lucky to buy Bitcoin once per decade.

07:14:54 danielpbarron: stock up

07:14:56 punkman: phillipsjk: the proposal is not to have 1MB block forever and ever

07:15:07 ben_vulpes: <trinque> get your forklift << not a bad analogy. preserving private keys is tough.

07:15:22 trinque: ben_vulpes: requires equipment and *taps noggin*

07:15:54 trinque: all sorts of other financial instruments can be derived from bitcoin once the thing itself is safe

07:15:59 trinque: right now it's nowhere near safe

07:16:11 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the vast majority of people run winblowz and use iOS devices. are we to count them in our set of people who might use bitcoin someday?

07:16:33 trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in

07:16:36 ben_vulpes: trinque: tell me about it.

07:17:54 ben_vulpes: at this point, i'm seriously entertaining the notion that phillipsjk is 3 phillipinos frantically composing sentences that sort-of make sense in english

07:18:36 phillipsjk: ben_vulpes, I have always assumed that if Bitcoin users commonly used Windows or IOS, we will learn that some major company had an "insider" push BItcoin stealing malware. (I think I mentioned that within my first 10 Bitcointalk posts.)

07:19:45 ben_vulpes: anyways, block limit ain't going anywhere. it diddles important scarcity characteristics, and the system isn't even in steady-state yet.

07:19:54 danielpbarron: are we supposed to have read your post history on some forum while you have not read the history here?

07:20:08 phillipsjk: Well, I guess I have to read logs to learn your "roadmap"

07:20:08 punkman: debug.log snippet for my node stuck on 168000: http://dpaste.com/3SS8V6X.txt

07:20:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6sTTN )

07:20:23 punkman: looks same as mod6's

07:20:36 ben_vulpes: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed << that's familiar

07:20:39 phillipsjk: danielpbarron, not really, no.

07:20:48 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: what roadmap

07:20:50 ben_vulpes: bitcoin is.

07:21:05 ben_vulpes: and it ain't changing.

07:22:45 punkman: did anyone try running phoundation's 0.6 ?

07:22:57 phillipsjk: It has and will change. The 1MB block limit was introduced to stop spam. You seem to be more militant than luke-Jr who called Bitcoin gambling sites spam. You appear to call all "trivial" transactions spam.

07:23:19 punkman: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam

07:23:42 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam.

07:24:06 fluffypony: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam.

07:24:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 196400 @ 0.00036017 = 70.7374 BTC [-] {2}

07:24:31 phillipsjk: <ben_vulpes> anyways, block limit ain't going anywhere. it diddles important scarcity characteristics, and the system isn't even in steady-state yet.

07:25:09 ben_vulpes: yes, i said that.

07:25:21 punkman: not just scarcity, slower block propagation can be disastrous

07:25:42 trinque: dude the average block size has to be what, 250kb right now?

07:25:45 ben_vulpes: the 1MB limit is actually in place because of block propagation chaos.

07:26:23 ben_vulpes: once upon a time, blocks were of unbounded size

07:26:34 ben_vulpes: propagation of blocks over the network was at that time...weird.

07:26:59 ben_vulpes: today, 3 mining consortiums might find a block within just a few minute of each other

07:27:07 phillipsjk: I always cringe when lusers on the forum brags some alt has faster "confirmation" times.

07:28:14 phillipsjk: That is the primary reason I am wary of Monero actually. 1 minute block|

07:29:17 phillipsjk: Well, thanks for the chat.

07:29:56 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: you're aware that monero's an experiment, right?

07:30:10 phillipsjk: So is Bitcoin.

07:30:33 punkman: So is earth.

07:31:33 phillipsjk: Currently Bitcoin is testing whether a secure, networked application is even possible.

07:31:37 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: ya well bitcoin monetized, and monero hasn't yet and likely won't so that's the kind of comment that paints you as entirely ignorant of the domain.

07:31:46 ben_vulpes: no, it's possible.

07:31:50 ben_vulpes: the sigs hash.

07:31:52 ben_vulpes: the blocks chain.

07:31:57 ben_vulpes: the experiment succeded.

07:32:03 ben_vulpes: scuse me, monero is a "hobby".

07:32:23 ben_vulpes: there is no "testing" of bitcoin.

07:32:49 trinque: will my btcd still fart transactions at other nodes if I haven't finished syncing the blockchain?

07:32:49 ben_vulpes: the notion that the bitcoin protocol needs testing is pure FUD, from the enemies of hard crypto.

07:32:57 ben_vulpes: trinque: TIAS

07:33:12 ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: where did you get that key, anyways? did you buy it?

07:33:26 trinque: ben_vulpes: wat

07:33:29 punkman: trinque: if you can build the transaction elsewhere

07:33:34 ben_vulpes: Try It And See

07:33:41 trinque: ben_vulpes: no way sounds lame

07:33:54 ben_vulpes: Welcome to BITCOIN

07:34:09 phillipsjk: No, back in 2009, my ISP said that they reserve the right to "inject ads in the browser". I have been singing my e-mail ever since.

07:34:09 ben_vulpes: trinque: i'd hope so.

07:34:34 ben_vulpes: i singed my butthole with a particularly firey fart the other night

07:34:48 trinque: lol

07:35:13 ben_vulpes: back in 99 Vexual was my isp and we only communicated with caesars cipher

07:35:36 BingoBoingo: <phillipsjk> It has and will change. The 1MB block limit was introduced to stop spam. You seem to be more militant than luke-Jr who called Bitcoin gambling sites spam. You appear to call all "trivial" transactions spam. << His definition of spam is both more complex and stupider than that

07:36:16 punkman: "let's block fee paying transactions, yay!"

07:36:27 phillipsjk: BingoBoingo, for some strange reason, I don't doubt you.

07:36:33 ben_vulpes: the point that i'm making (for the clinically slow) is that the odds of a key from...2013 just showing up and having anything pointful to say, especially when citing bitcointalk as proof or substantiation of anything are...low.

07:37:21 ben_vulpes: especially when that key simply parrots that which is only said by those who wish to wreck the scarcity and value of core bitcoin economics.

07:37:25 ben_vulpes: ;;ident phillipsjk

07:37:25 gribble: Nick 'phillipsjk', with hostmask 'phillipsjk!~james@unaffiliated/phillipsjk', is not identified.

07:37:35 ben_vulpes: oh well clearly fuck right off then.

07:37:40 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.phillipsjk.-1:162b44943bc0180c83a6648fa5aaaa3cbbeb78a4506a70bcbddccf8766452878

07:37:40 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for phillipsjk with note: get back to me in six months

07:37:44 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.ben_vulpes.1:d92e6c6794ef16570291b960cfc1f164b7e1dd41eb85d812c2ecfe1b9f870592

07:37:44 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for ben_vulpes with note: a *real* bitcoin dev

07:37:55 ben_vulpes: oh gosh don't do that danielpbarron

07:38:08 ben_vulpes: you'll bring der furer down on me and i'm trying to get to ars in the spring

07:38:24 ben_vulpes: :P

07:38:48 ben_vulpes: how is this phillipsjk voiced again?

07:39:08 phillipsjk: I authe with assbot, not gribble.

07:39:17 phillipsjk: !down

07:39:28 phillipsjk: !down phillipsjk

07:39:31 ben_vulpes: no, you're not even identified.

07:39:46 ben_vulpes: mm oh

07:39:57 punkman: ;;ident ben_vulpes

07:39:57 gribble: Nick 'ben_vulpes', with hostmask 'ben_vulpes!~ben_vulpe@unaffiliated/benkay', is not identified.

07:40:06 ben_vulpes: *sigh*

07:40:07 ben_vulpes: FINE

07:40:12 ben_vulpes: ;;ident ben_vulpes

07:40:12 gribble: Nick 'ben_vulpes', with hostmask 'ben_vulpes!~ben_vulpe@unaffiliated/benkay', is not identified.

07:40:19 ben_vulpes: ;;eauth ben_vulpes

07:40:20 gribble: Request successful for user ben_vulpes, hostmask ben_vulpes!~ben_vulpe@unaffiliated/benkay. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/2AFA1A9FD2D031DA

07:40:36 punkman: we don't really do that anymore

07:40:49 ben_vulpes: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:c04e17d42f4139a1cf13c592cf1722b9116798c9122e99590d8dedff

07:40:50 gribble: You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA

07:40:57 ben_vulpes: punkman: no, but it makes a point.

07:41:00 ben_vulpes: my tooling works.

07:41:03 trinque: deedbot-: add-key http://dpaste.com/1F6JBV6.txt

07:41:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6yUQq )

07:41:26 punkman: add-key?

07:42:10 ben_vulpes: yeah, what is this add-key?

07:42:12 trinque: deedbot-: add-key http://dpaste.com/1F6JBV6.txt

07:42:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6zfCs )

07:42:17 trinque: doo eeeet

07:42:33 trinque: something's not talking to something *crawls back under car*

07:42:40 ben_vulpes: !s testing in production

07:42:41 assbot: 19 results for 'testing in production' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=testing+in+production

07:42:41 trinque: add-key adds your public key to the bot's keyring

07:42:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148200 @ 0.00037334 = 55.329 BTC [+] {3}

07:43:26 trinque: ben_vulpes: nah works in pm

07:43:32 trinque: I think that's a setting

07:43:46 trinque: anyhow add-key adds your key *if* you're in assbot's L1 or L2

07:44:18 danielpbarron: doesn't the bot know your key if it knows you're in the l2?

07:44:18 trinque: add-deed noms a gpg signed document and queues it for timestamping

07:45:02 trinque: danielpbarron: you give it your key; it checks the web api, adds the key to the keyring if you're in l1/l2

07:45:04 trinque: as per spec

07:45:22 trinque: and only eats docs with signatures it can verify

07:46:23 danielpbarron: ah

07:48:17 ben_vulpes: deedbot-: add-deed http://dpaste.com/2JTGWWA.txt

07:48:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6B0Q8 )

07:48:52 ben_vulpes: that's going to have to work in-channel, trinque

07:49:16 trinque: ben_vulpes: duh

07:49:37 ben_vulpes: ALL I HAVE IS DUH

07:49:42 ben_vulpes: LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE

07:49:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97330 @ 0.00038368 = 37.3436 BTC [+] {2}

07:50:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42136 @ 0.00038734 = 16.321 BTC [+] {2}

07:51:15 trinque: !up deedbot-

07:51:23 punkman: lol

07:51:29 trinque: deedbot-: add-key http://dpaste.com/1F6JBV6.txt

07:51:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/16jKyFV )

07:51:31 deedbot-: imported: FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4

07:51:34 trinque: deerrrrppp

07:51:47 ben_vulpes: deedbot-: add-deed http://dpaste.com/2JTGWWA.txt

07:51:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6B0Q8 )

07:51:48 deedbot-: accepted: 1

07:51:50 danielpbarron: !b 17

07:51:50 assbot: Last 17 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02BHHPQ.txt )

07:52:25 ben_vulpes: is the flatfile host up yet?

07:52:58 trinque: deedbot.org

07:53:01 trinque: I'm fiddling with the publisher

07:53:17 ben_vulpes: dat unstyled text

07:53:21 ben_vulpes: turns me on

07:53:27 trinque: probably will have no css

07:53:48 ben_vulpes: no css is best css

07:54:05 ben_vulpes: mebbe a tidy little dinosaur in the footer

08:16:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31019 @ 0.00038861 = 12.0543 BTC [+]

08:17:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 19493 @ 0.00096996 = 18.9074 BTC [+] {11}

08:18:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.0009705 = 1.941 BTC [+] {2}

08:18:51 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBis7_FhgmQ

08:18:52 assbot: Frames Janco - No Sleep [Prod. by SouthWest] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18PRFI5 )

08:18:58 punkman: !up Vexual

08:21:38 punkman: !up deedbot-

08:22:14 Vexual: didnt james franco cut his arm of for sport?

08:23:33 BingoBoingo: Bioshock is real life

08:23:34 BingoBoingo: http://io9.com/confirmation-that-photosynthesizing-sea-slugs-steal-gen-1683702602

08:23:35 assbot: Confirmation That Photosynthesizing Sea Slugs Steal Genes From Algae ... ( http://bit.ly/18PSfp1 )

08:23:51 Vexual: bioshokc pron is a thing

08:24:18 Vexual: forget bix

08:25:25 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlgaRgcDeFI

08:25:26 assbot: Hazel - Dayglo [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18PSyAl )

08:25:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00038861 = 13.5625 BTC [+]

08:27:32 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YW_RqTuZMw

08:27:33 assbot: BADBADNOTGOOD & Ghostface Killah - Ray Gun ft. DOOM (Official Video) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18PSNv4 )

08:27:56 danielpbarron: height=185126

08:28:09 punkman: danielpbarron: with orphanage burner?

08:28:17 danielpbarron: not sure

08:28:28 danielpbarron: that's the one ascii compiled and hosted

08:28:54 danielpbarron: i hope i'm close to getting it compiled myself

08:29:58 danielpbarron: !s pogo

08:29:59 assbot: 78 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo

08:30:06 danielpbarron: Vexual, ^

08:30:37 punkman: danielpbarron: this one? "bitcoin-armv5-bastard includes the 'orphanage burner'"

08:32:10 danielpbarron: ya

08:32:11 Vexual: ill be loadinging up m old eeepc

08:32:25 danielpbarron: oh i forgot he made two of them

08:32:26 Vexual: maybe if it owrks

08:33:13 Vexual: ive obly got one?

08:34:17 Vexual: luckily the book doesnt nessitate anything in particular

08:35:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87790 @ 0.00038861 = 34.1161 BTC [+]

08:38:25 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1tlyGcAHbU

08:38:26 assbot: Jay Electronica - Eternal Sunshine (The Pledge) (Full 15-minute version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18PUdpq )

08:40:18 punkman: http://matrix.org/

08:40:20 assbot: Matrix.org | A new basis for open, distributed, real-time communication ... ( http://bit.ly/18PUsRn )

08:44:16 punkman: artifexd, maybe some relevant ideas for gossipd in that spec

08:50:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134500 @ 0.00036454 = 49.0306 BTC [-] {3}

08:59:25 punkman: lol http://www.anthemfacts.com/

08:59:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DB31c3 )

09:00:37 punkman: "if you are Anthem member, or if you were an Anthem member, you've been doxxed... and quite comprehensively. And you were doxxed nearly two months ago. Or maybe not, because Anthem goes out of its way to NOT tell you when this occurred. If you were affected here's how they will notify you:"

09:00:46 punkman: "We continue working to identify the members who are impacted. We will begin to mail letters to impacted members in the coming weeks."

09:03:42 fluffypony: what's Anthem?

09:03:48 fluffypony: (scuse my ignorance)

09:05:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42700 @ 0.00038861 = 16.5936 BTC [+]

09:05:48 punkman: fluffypony: some insurance company

09:05:53 fluffypony: ah ok

09:57:56 punkman: "app rating farm" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9EKh_lIEAE1O8u.jpg

09:57:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ku6eMS )

10:01:47 punkman: http://www.omaha.com/money/impostors-bilk-omaha-s-scoular-co-out-of-million/article_25af3da5-d475-5f9d-92db-52493258d23d.html

10:01:49 assbot: Impostors bilk Omaha's Scoular Co. out of $17.2 million - Omaha.com: Money ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ku6Guz )

10:04:22 punkman: scammer pretended to be the CEO, told employee to plz send monies to china: "For the last months we have been working, in coordination and under the supervision of the SEC, on acquiring a Chinese company. ... This is very sensitive, so please only communicate with me through this email, in order for us not to infringe SEC regulations."

10:10:02 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008005 < did no such thing

10:10:02 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:53:48; ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?

10:12:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156200 @ 0.00038899 = 60.7602 BTC [+] {2}

10:12:38 punkman: https://cpunks.org//pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-February/006670.html

10:16:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5802 @ 0.00095 = 5.5119 BTC [-] {8}

10:18:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1145 @ 0.00094837 = 1.0859 BTC [-] {4}

10:29:17 cazalla: from a ransomware news piece.. "Once their files are returned, the Niedermayers plan to have their hard drive professionally wiped, and will change their IP address."

10:30:11 fluffypony: LOL

10:30:20 fluffypony: I'm going to offer professional wiping services

11:00:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183550 @ 0.00039151 = 71.8617 BTC [+] {2}

11:09:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156572 @ 0.0003924 = 61.4389 BTC [+]

11:25:22 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007996 < ilold

11:25:22 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:52:46; trinque: b-b-but my pulse!

11:25:42 kakobrekla: enjoyable logs tonite.

11:53:03 kakobrekla: http://www.mit.edu/~jerryzli/SprayList-CR.pdf

11:53:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DBxpTI )

11:54:46 kakobrekla: they basically claim random ftw, which is lulzy

13:07:01 BingoBoingo: http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/03/worlds-most-expensive-drug-prescription-that-costs-up-to-700000-per-year-too-expensive-canada-says/

13:09:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66250 @ 0.00038908 = 25.7766 BTC [-]

13:10:15 thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2utl7p/lol_coinbase_for_getting_mad_at_redditors_for/cobkp02

13:10:25 thestringpuller: can coinbase and bitpay die already?

13:12:14 thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2uu1iu/permanently_keeping_the_1mb_antispam_restriction/ << redditards are so dumb

13:15:12 thestringpuller: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0 << has deathandtaxes argument been discussed et?

13:20:03 jurov: adlai: if you have problems opening exchange account, maybe we can do it together. but i'm not touching btc-e or buttstamp

13:20:46 jurov: we can use paymium or maybe coinmate.. but dunno if it works with smaller volume

13:21:22 jurov: perhaps i can look into kraken

13:38:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39650 @ 0.00038908 = 15.427 BTC [-]

14:09:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102900 @ 0.0003877 = 39.8943 BTC [-]

14:36:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16682 @ 0.00038366 = 6.4002 BTC [-]

14:39:19 thestringpuller: ls

14:52:02 PeterL: PeterL: http://bablogs.btcscoop.com is back up now

14:52:03 assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts ... ( http://bit.ly/1KuJf4y )

14:59:15 lobbes: woo, finally got my VPS up and running. Now I just have to teach myself the basics of linux (Debian 7). So far I know how to view my current directory. Next step: running a node!

14:59:24 lobbes: plenty of comedy gold (tm) to follow

14:59:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108650 @ 0.00038366 = 41.6847 BTC [-]

15:04:11 thestringpuller: PeterL: is scoopbot fetching again :P

15:04:30 PeterL: should be, I just restarted it a minute ago

15:05:00 PeterL: I'm not sure why he stops, but it seems to get fixed if I restart

15:12:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101371 @ 0.00038759 = 39.2904 BTC [+] {2}

15:15:20 mike_c: PeterL: nice! i missed having that page.

15:29:24 asciilifeform: 282547.

15:29:42 mircea_popescu: like 5k over a day ?

15:31:26 jurov: https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/epel-formula insanity. this recipe properly downloads and checksums a gpg key for epel repository, and then happily uses another one

15:31:27 assbot: saltstack-formulas/epel-formula · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1D20CJg )

15:31:45 jurov: like, no one looked at it before?

15:31:56 mircea_popescu: jurov o.O ?!

15:32:58 asciilifeform: Many Eyes (TM) !11!

15:33:31 PeterL: well now somebody found it, many eyes worked

15:33:35 mircea_popescu: i dunno of any "profession" "industree" etc ever in history of mankind to be so fucking... i don't even know. inconsistent ? mixed ?

15:33:41 mircea_popescu: not even medicine. not even religion.

15:33:54 mircea_popescu: PeterL i hope for the sake of your soul that you're being kako-level sarcastic.

15:34:03 PeterL: the profession of prostitute includes alot of fucking ...

15:34:04 jurov: PeterL: yes I found it..after half year

15:34:15 jurov: er.. one and half year

15:34:19 PeterL: I think I forgot my sarcasm tag somewhere

15:34:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28768 @ 0.00038366 = 11.0371 BTC [-]

15:34:34 mircea_popescu: sarcasm tag's one history!

15:35:27 jurov: #devops at one's own peril

15:35:27 mircea_popescu: computers are evil, there's no two ways about it.

15:36:34 mircea_popescu: http://www.tennessean.com/story/insession/2015/02/03/swingers-club-council/22813945/

15:36:39 assbot: Swingers club adds councilwoman's picture to website ... ( http://bit.ly/1D21tK3 )

15:38:04 punkman: swinger's club next to christian school campus, synergy!

15:38:37 mircea_popescu: lol

15:39:02 mircea_popescu: "christisn school campus" wtf is that even

15:39:30 mircea_popescu: place for a bunch of derps to go and be all weird and pretend it's jesus' fault amirite.

15:39:42 punkman: http://goodpasture.org/

15:39:45 assbot: Goodpasture Christian School | "Building confidence, intellectual growth, and spiritual strength." ... ( http://bit.ly/1D223at )

15:40:03 mircea_popescu: motherfucker. the cheek.

15:40:28 mircea_popescu: haha check out the almost-mscomic font.

15:41:29 punkman: running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far

15:41:30 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1D22jX3 )

15:41:33 mircea_popescu: To see the cast list for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the attatchment.

15:41:33 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

15:42:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91900 @ 0.00038267 = 35.1674 BTC [-] {2}

15:44:23 mircea_popescu: !up Rippleflip_

15:44:34 Rippleflip_: hello

15:44:34 mircea_popescu: !up BigBitz

15:44:43 mircea_popescu: i up noobs anyway ya know.

15:44:48 BigBitz: mircea_popescu opportunity of a lifetime coming up.

15:44:48 Rippleflip_: i have been forwarded here from #bitcoin-otc

15:45:13 Rippleflip_: we run stellarflip.com and rippleflip.com and are possibly selling these services

15:45:26 PeterL: who is we?

15:45:35 Rippleflip_: our team. read more from https://stellarflip.com/sale.txt

15:45:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D233eO )

15:45:37 mircea_popescu: ripp, lef and lip

15:46:04 BigBitz: 1250BTC. Cheap.

15:46:20 chetty: how does one person typing use 'we' unless of course its a royal we

15:46:22 Rippleflip_: bitbet.us is valued at 2000 BTC

15:46:28 Rippleflip_: sorry chetty for my language

15:46:30 mircea_popescu: market-valued.

15:46:34 Rippleflip_: yes

15:46:38 mircea_popescu: you know, kinda different story.

15:46:55 Rippleflip_: yes, i see.

15:47:08 mircea_popescu: so what do these do, exactly ? some sort of coin flip thing ?

15:47:16 Rippleflip_: yes. gambling.

15:47:19 BigBitz: mircea_popescu gambling for Stellar and Ripple.

15:47:33 mircea_popescu: and limited to ripple and "stellar", ie, two dead scamcoins ?

15:47:36 Rippleflip_: we have much indonesian speaking players

15:47:45 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: yes.

15:47:52 BigBitz: scamcoin 101.

15:47:56 BigBitz: pump. dump. run.

15:47:59 mircea_popescu: that's cool, but wh ydo you think the site's worth something in bitcoin ? neither ripple nor stellars are worth anything in bitcoin

15:48:16 mircea_popescu: how about 1250 ripples ? or 1250 stellars ?

15:48:26 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: we're open to offers but 1,250 BTC sounds reasonable to us.

15:48:42 mircea_popescu: let me guess, it would roughly repay what you think the valuable value of your time spent on it so far

15:48:48 mircea_popescu: plus perhaps a little something for the missus ?

15:48:55 BigBitz: Rippleflip_ I did offer 25 Doge.

15:49:29 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: i don't know. we set the price on the low end compared to other gambling site valuations

15:49:59 Rippleflip_: bitbet.us has been played significantly less than ours, yet it's valued at 2000

15:50:08 jurov: Rippleflip_: the valuations include the bankroll. but you are keeping the bankroll i presume

15:50:14 mircea_popescu: how do you figure significantly less ?!

15:50:14 jurov: and selling only code/domain

15:50:17 PeterL: do you have a report on monthly income produced over the past year?

15:50:25 Rippleflip_: jurov: the bankrolls we have are quite small

15:50:42 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: wagers per time

15:50:47 Rippleflip_: or just wagers.

15:50:51 mircea_popescu: nonono. wagers-time.

15:50:52 Rippleflip_: do your research please

15:51:00 danielpbarron: !b 10

15:51:01 assbot: Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1X1RKKN.txt )

15:51:04 mircea_popescu: if someone puts 1 btc for 1 year on bitbet, and someone puts 1000 ripples for 10 seconds on your site,

15:51:33 mircea_popescu: you got 10k ripple seconds and bitbet got 31536000 bitcoin-seconds

15:51:39 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: i meant stellarflip.com itself has been wagering more in 6 months than for example, bitbet all-time

15:51:47 mircea_popescu: see above.

15:53:09 punkman: 8million STR total profit = 134 BTC

15:53:57 mircea_popescu: ah now i see his logic. so

15:54:12 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2000 / 21340 * 134

15:54:13 gribble: 12.5585754452

15:54:19 mircea_popescu: that's whence the 1250 comes from

15:54:47 mircea_popescu: can you even sell 10mn "stellar" without ruining the market permanently ?

15:54:54 Rippleflip_: yes

15:55:03 mircea_popescu: where does it even trade these days ?

15:55:03 Rippleflip_: i assume it is possible.

15:55:08 thestringpuller: so why is this channel only boppin' when a nigga gotta put in work?

15:55:13 punkman: 3,595,158,975 stellars available now

15:55:14 BigBitz: 'assume' do your research, please.

15:55:17 Rippleflip_: poloniex.com at least. and inside network

15:55:17 mircea_popescu: well of coruse you'd assume, no doub on that socre.

15:55:17 thestringpuller: and not when you know I'm in a meeting trying to kill time.

15:55:37 mircea_popescu: oh inside network ?! nobody i know would touch it. inside of what ? got its own wot ?

15:55:42 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: you have to verify everything,, there is no point if i tell you

15:56:01 Rippleflip_: for serious inquiries please email us.

15:56:19 mircea_popescu: is stellar xmr ?

15:56:21 Rippleflip_: or pm here, both work.

15:56:24 Rippleflip_: no

15:56:26 BigBitz: selling 10M STR would destroy their market.

15:56:28 mircea_popescu: a no str

15:56:52 mircea_popescu: STR 0.00001654 63.358 -2.88 Stellar

15:57:33 mircea_popescu: STR 0.00387111 0.080 +0.10 Stellar

15:58:04 mircea_popescu: so according to poloniex, 10 cents worth of stellar (at 0.004) and 64 bitcoins' worth of same (at 0.00whatever) sold in the past what is this, day ?

15:58:31 Rippleflip_: looks like that

15:59:04 mircea_popescu: seems it only exists to trade xmr this thing, since https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_str styill spends 90% of the page listing the xmr market. weird.

15:59:06 assbot: Poloniex - Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1D25fmt )

15:59:14 mircea_popescu: fluffypony is this poloniex thing your folks' ?

15:59:22 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: no

15:59:32 mircea_popescu: where is the official place to trade monero ?

15:59:44 fluffypony: that has the most liquidity

15:59:55 fluffypony: hitbtc is most probably a scam so I'd avoid that

16:00:06 mircea_popescu: "24hr Volume: 646.141 BTC / 195.554 XMR / 2838.69 XUSD" nuts.

16:01:12 mircea_popescu: if this liquidity is natural i'll eat my hat. for one thing, the people interested in alts are interested in alts specifically because they're bitcoin poor. to propose to me that they are 100x more likely to trade btc than usd seems beyond counterintuitive.

16:02:35 fluffypony: there's a shitload of liquidity in alts

16:02:40 fluffypony: because it's a circle of scams

16:02:48 fluffypony: scammers scamming scammers

16:03:05 mircea_popescu: well, web people love that "hyip" thing

16:03:10 fluffypony: they make hundreds of BTC on one scam, then lose half of it to another scam the next day

16:03:20 fluffypony: yeah they do

16:03:30 fluffypony: that's why PoS is a "thing"

16:03:41 fluffypony: the new altcoin PoS scam is "hyperinflation"

16:03:55 fluffypony: they had MMXIV with 2014% staking

16:03:56 mircea_popescu: kinda what the web even exists these days. for people like mako to be all fucking weird (they call it "altrusitic" of course - http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/the-institute-for-cultural-diplomacy-and-wikipedia )

16:03:58 assbot: The Institute for Cultural Diplomacy and Wikipedia | copyrighteous ... ( http://bit.ly/1D264vz )

16:04:00 fluffypony: and now some 10 000% staking coin

16:04:09 mircea_popescu: and for other people to be all like "I MAKE MONEY WHILE YOIU SLEEP!!11"

16:04:21 mircea_popescu: what is this staking ?

16:04:36 fluffypony: you basically just have to have the wallet open

16:04:43 fluffypony: and then your coins add to the "stake weight"

16:04:57 mircea_popescu: wow, realsolid's idea ?

16:05:00 fluffypony: so no mining, just wallets "staking" and earning "interest" for it

16:05:03 fluffypony: no, PeerCoin

16:05:10 mircea_popescu: nah, this was solidcoin

16:05:13 fluffypony: Sunny King or whatever his name is

16:05:41 mircea_popescu: if you look, throughout 2011/12 some mentally deficient dank clone spent his time producing prose (not so different from the gavincoin crapolade) professionally explaining how bitcoin is obsolete

16:05:46 mircea_popescu: and now solidcoin is here to stay!!1

16:06:08 mircea_popescu: then artforz found it had a hole, and then it changed to having 12 magic nodes with 10 mn "unspendable" coins each

16:06:10 mircea_popescu: which then got spent.

16:06:36 fluffypony: ok not sure about SolidCoin, but PeerCoin's whitepaper is from August 2012

16:06:49 fluffypony: it may have been influenced by ideas RealScammer had

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: pretty sure realsolid was the first altscammer.

16:07:27 fluffypony: PPCoin wasn't meant to be a scam

16:07:33 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: freicoin is PoS

16:07:49 fluffypony: I think King and Nadal genuinely wanted to find an alternative to PoS

16:07:53 fluffypony: agh, to PoW I mean

16:08:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75308 @ 0.00039026 = 29.3897 BTC [+] {2}

16:08:05 mircea_popescu: fluffypony https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63957.0 << ancient stuff.

16:08:06 assbot: Do YOU want RealSolid to be lead developer( of solidcoin)? ... ( http://bit.ly/1D26Rgc )

16:08:42 mircea_popescu: well there's a difference between wanting and trying things out you know. i also want to find a cure for cancer, but i'm not going around feeding people pills.

16:09:14 the_scourge: fluffypony: there was a post about possible PoS vulnerabilities written by Vitalik. for what his opinion is worth

16:09:36 fluffypony: the_scourge: PoS is not a terrible idea, it just doesn't work

16:09:57 the_scourge: fluffypony: you may very well be right. what are the top reasons why not?

16:10:14 fluffypony: the_scourge: Vitalik's approach to solving anything is to layer complexity on top, his Delegated PoS thing is just ugh

16:10:22 mircea_popescu: ^

16:10:33 the_scourge: 'cause reasons like 'keeping it anonymous AND democratic' don't fly for me anymore. butterin is worried about democracy or whatever, i'm past that point

16:10:40 mircea_popescu: this is pretty much the "us academia" solution to everything. "make it more complicated, people won't notice"

16:10:52 the_scourge: :D

16:11:08 the_scourge: the freicoin solution is shockingly simple. my mind appreciates that :D

16:11:10 thestringpuller: Is ethereum not dead yet?

16:11:19 fluffypony: the_scourge: Poelstra's write-up is normally my go-to when PoS comes up in convo: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf

16:11:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D27mqo )

16:11:22 the_scourge: put a fork in it

16:11:27 mircea_popescu: pretty much born out of their poverty years, each academic spent some time going "well if i think of it really complicatedly, i won't be so hungry anymore and those won't really be cockroaches"

16:11:27 the_scourge: fluffypony: thanks

16:11:36 fluffypony: he updates it regularly

16:11:46 mircea_popescu: he upgrades a pdf regularly ?

16:11:52 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: this reminds me of conversation we had of Grad students being pimped out.

16:12:06 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you'll have to link a logline.

16:12:14 Rippleflip_: PeterL: no. it's also worth nothing if we make it. potential buyer has to do the research. we can of course give you data

16:12:17 thestringpuller: Yay markov chains!

16:12:24 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah, he has it in git if you want to step back to previous versions

16:12:31 fluffypony: 6.4 is the section where he rips PoS a new one

16:12:47 PeterL: Rippleflip_: what's worth nothing?

16:12:48 mircea_popescu: you know the guy ?

16:12:57 Rippleflip_: PeterL: the info we give to you.

16:13:11 PeterL: where else would info come from?

16:13:12 Rippleflip_: PeterL: it is all 100% verifiable from public ledger

16:13:17 Rippleflip_: the ledger.

16:13:32 the_scourge: fluffypony: is apoelstra his github account?

16:13:44 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: he's attached to the Monero Research Lab as one of the MRL Friends, so he's participated in some of the Schnorr signature multi-sig discussions we've had

16:14:06 Rippleflip_: well, a bit over 20000 unique players, over 1,5 million usd wagered (possibly over 2 million with bitcoin value being higher in the past)

16:14:09 fluffypony: the_scourge: yes

16:14:47 the_scourge: fluffypony: i'm intruiged by his ideas and would like to subscribe to his newsletter

16:14:47 Rippleflip_: been operating with the same engine for over 1.5 years

16:14:48 mircea_popescu: https://github.com/apoelstra << lol at kanzure

16:14:49 assbot: apoelstra (Andrew Poelstra) · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1D27Z3u )

16:15:01 mircea_popescu: srsly, "Textual enumeration of incentives related to Bitcoin software." ?!

16:15:07 fluffypony: the_scourge: he doesn't have a newsletter

16:15:13 the_scourge: :(

16:15:44 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell kanzure saw your enumeration incentives thing. lolz were had.

16:15:44 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:15:47 the_scourge: fuck another canadian expat. we are fucking awesome

16:16:10 mircea_popescu: Rippleflip_ you know, the only moral here is that spending 1.5 years outside of the wot essentially cost you 1250 btc

16:16:24 mircea_popescu: or w/e chance at that you might have built over the 1.5 years in question.

16:16:28 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: is that incentives whitepaper actualy kanzure ?

16:16:29 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-12-2014#951402

16:16:41 mircea_popescu: the_scourge i would imagine so, and if not i'll soon find out.

16:17:02 mircea_popescu: !up Rippleflip_

16:17:07 Rippleflip_: thanks

16:17:29 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: we will of course use escrow with the buyer

16:17:38 Rippleflip_: so i do not see it essential to being in the WoT

16:17:47 mircea_popescu: heh mkay.

16:18:10 Rippleflip_: #bitcoin-otc laughed at the pricing of 1,250. is it really too much?

16:18:13 mircea_popescu: fluffypony got a link to the actual github in question ?

16:18:15 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I already told him that when he joined -otc nearly two hours ago

16:18:15 fluffypony: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wxtZcttv

16:18:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D28tq5 )

16:18:33 Rippleflip_: fluffypony: told me what?

16:18:41 *: the_scourge is reading whitepapers but would like to pause and say that maybe alf is right, intelligence and creativity are orthoganal to complexity

16:18:42 mircea_popescu: Rippleflip_ to put it plainly : someone who does not see being in wot as esential can not possible have yet done anything whatsoever worth any amount at all, in crypto.

16:18:50 Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: i do have wot...

16:19:03 mircea_popescu: !gettrust Rippleflip_

16:19:03 assbot: Rippleflip_ is not registered in WoT.

16:19:14 Rippleflip_: look without _

16:19:22 fluffypony: !gettrust Rippleflip

16:19:22 assbot: Rippleflip is not registered in WoT.

16:19:26 fluffypony: guess not

16:19:29 thestringpuller: LOL

16:19:31 Rippleflip: try DaleC

16:19:32 Rippleflip: ...

16:19:38 thestringpuller: !gettrust DaleC

16:19:38 assbot: Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user DaleC: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/thestringpuller/DaleC | http://w.b-a.link/user/DaleC

16:20:01 thestringpuller: !gettrust assbot DaleC

16:20:02 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user DaleC: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/DaleC | http://w.b-a.link/user/DaleC

16:20:24 fluffypony: !gettrust DaleC

16:20:25 assbot: Trust relationship from user fluffypony to user DaleC: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/fluffypony/DaleC | http://w.b-a.link/user/DaleC

16:20:26 mircea_popescu: ;;google Tim Swanson site:fraudsters.com

16:20:27 gribble: No, you don't have something to say on the topic. pe fraudsters - Un ...: http://fraudsters.com/2014/no-you-dont-have-something-to-say-on-the-topic/; The thorny problem of violence, or the miracle of the talking ass. pe ...: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-thorny-problem-of-violence-or-the-miracle-of-the-talking-ass/; The witch hunt pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: (1 more message)

16:20:31 fluffypony: sorry Daley

16:20:58 mircea_popescu: Rippleflip tom swanson famously argued the same stuff, from perhaps a better position than you'll find yourself in.

16:21:26 mircea_popescu: actually was it tim. yeah it was tim.

16:21:30 Rippleflip: alright

16:21:42 Rippleflip: anyway, over 1 year in wot already :)

16:21:48 mircea_popescu: so now : take that website, give it away or whatever, go to read the logs for the next year or so.

16:21:59 mircea_popescu: after which, come back, do something useful with your time, that'll actually be worth money.

16:22:07 Rippleflip: thanks for your advice.

16:22:11 mircea_popescu: cheerios.

16:22:16 thestringpuller: he didn't even charge you Rippleflip

16:22:21 thestringpuller: What a nice guy!

16:23:04 the_scourge: would this be a good time to talk about how the mud pie fallacy is VERY apropos :)

16:23:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106086 @ 0.0003924 = 41.6281 BTC [+]

16:23:29 the_scourge: i actually wish there was a marxist around to make it. at this very instant. < speaking of making things insanely complex

16:23:48 fluffypony: lol the_scourge

16:24:27 mircea_popescu: the_scourge myeah. http://fraudsters.com/2009/capitalism-si-naivitate/ << romanians have the same problem, if it helps anything.

16:24:27 assbot: Capitalism si naivitate. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D29nDf )

16:24:35 mircea_popescu: in any case it indicates it's a fallacy older than feudalism.

16:25:16 the_scourge: well it's true. my dad was smart enough to say shit like 'it doesn't matter how hard your working if the thing you're working on is useless', and yet today the highest academics actually think that this universal gnon rule can be broken because they invented more complexity?

16:25:42 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: will google translate do that justice?

16:26:15 mircea_popescu: it is more a function of people being removed from the means of production than anything. no living thing will ever accept its pointlessness. as such, cargo cults and mud pies everywhere.

16:26:30 mircea_popescu: the_scourge from experience, not even human translation by billingual hands do my prose justice.

16:26:46 mircea_popescu: i mostly link it to torture people.

16:28:20 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: mission accomplished. i'm going back to reading that whitepaper

16:28:47 mircea_popescu: fluffypony srsly, got a link to the whitepaper's github ? guy's tree's gnarly.

16:30:57 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I've pinged him to ask where it is

16:31:21 mircea_popescu: a ty

16:33:07 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot BigBitz

16:33:08 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user BigBitz: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/BigBitz | http://w.b-a.link/user/BigBitz

16:33:13 mircea_popescu: !up BigBitz

16:33:17 mircea_popescu: you know how to voice ?

16:36:08 BigBitz: Yeah.

16:36:20 BigBitz: I just don't have my key on this terminal.

16:36:24 BigBitz: I am authed with gribble :)

16:36:30 BigBitz: ;;ident

16:36:30 gribble: Nick 'BigBitz', with hostmask 'BigBitz!~BigBitz@unaffiliated/bigbitz', is identified as user 'BigBitz', with GPG key id AB6B34E4289B7F96, key fingerprint E6D96C3A035A057AD9DD8A9DAB6B34E4289B7F96, and bitcoin address 1BigBitzyouKT2eVYvHbRUNMkCp9bvAvSu

16:37:21 mircea_popescu: kk jus checking.

16:37:25 BigBitz: :)

16:45:29 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: it's at git://git.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alt-essay.git

16:45:53 fluffypony: so no pretty github interface, but git works fine

16:46:48 mircea_popescu: ty

16:47:12 mircea_popescu: curl: (1) Protocol git not supported or disabled in libcurl

16:47:14 mircea_popescu: blergh

16:47:42 mircea_popescu: a kind soul with git installed pls dpaste that shit sometime ty.

16:51:22 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: nix-env -i git-all

16:51:27 the_scourge: "Finally, it should be mentioned that developer-signed blocks are known in the PoS community as

16:51:30 the_scourge: checkpoints. This is a very misleading name because it is already used to describe an anti-denial-of-

16:51:33 the_scourge: service measure of Bitcoin’s peer-to-peer network; Bitcoin’s checkpoints have nothing whatsoever

16:51:36 the_scourge: to do with consensus."

16:53:12 the_scourge: erg sorry for multi line but this does not explain why peercoin's checkpoints won't work. we should call them something else if the word is causing a problem in discussing it

16:55:13 fluffypony: the_scourge: because with Bitcoin checkpoints are optional, and won't be needed eventually. with PeerCoin they will always be needed (for pure PoS).

16:55:25 fluffypony: otherwise they're open to stake-grinding attacks the minute they take them away

16:55:58 fluffypony: whereas with Bitcoin if you remove the checkpoints nobody has enough hashing power to be able to rewrite history back several thousand blocks

16:56:07 fluffypony: or wherever the last checkpoint was

16:56:50 mircea_popescu: in other words : in bitcoin checkpoints exist mostly because the protocol is strong, and the power rangers are trying to leech strength to prop their own shitty code.

16:57:01 mircea_popescu: in ppcoin they exist because the protocol is very weak, even weaker than the code,

16:57:12 mircea_popescu: and the local power rangers are trying to prop both by fiat.

16:57:17 mircea_popescu: (ie, their own trust)

17:02:35 the_scourge: at some point, the checkpoints in ppcoin won't be needed

17:02:47 punkman: when it's dead?

17:03:16 the_scourge: 'cause the coin-days of legitimate holders will far exceed whatever a grinder could possibly come up with

17:04:22 the_scourge: i don't see very much difference between that and PoW blockchains which have vulnerabilities early on, and can't be truly invulnerable until legitimate mining is consuming 51% of the earth's electricity

17:04:39 the_scourge: until that point, it's still just probability

17:06:15 mircea_popescu: you're committing the shaman mistake. that is to say, the mistake to believe categories in your mind have objective substance.

17:06:16 the_scourge: ppcoin is more of an agorist/WoT effort to get past that post. more activity, more coin-days, more legitimate: less chance of a grinding attack. until that point, you're hoping that the highly improbable does't happen. how is that different?

17:06:21 mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as a "legitimate holder"

17:06:48 the_scourge: WoT is proof that there is 'legitimate holder', n'est pas?

17:06:50 mircea_popescu: it's a post hoc determination, and for this reason can not be used in any phenomena discussion.

17:07:09 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/im-not-sure-i-can-truly-convey-the-lulz/

17:09:49 mircea_popescu: the difference from the wot is actually quite instructive. in the wot, one is at the liberty to consider history, but in no sense required to do so. in your model, one automatically is held to consider history. it's true that they both to some degree rely on the continuation fallacy,

17:10:06 mircea_popescu: however once that's automatic everything changes. which is why the wot can not be automated.

17:12:17 the_scourge: automated can mean 2 things: 1. reduce the roteness, man the hard things easy 2. skynet

17:12:29 the_scourge: *make

17:13:40 the_scourge: and considering i'm a NRx'er, i'm pretty sure i'm for the former and against the latter

17:14:00 the_scourge: *an NRx'er

17:14:52 mircea_popescu: i dunno what most of these are.

17:15:33 the_scourge: NRx is just shorthand for neoreaction

17:16:25 mircea_popescu: like shorthand for "yarvin's readership" ?

17:16:38 the_scourge: but basically, post-libertarianism. therefore bitcoin is designed with the wrong assumptions about society. it's designed by progressives. every person in the world born after 1805 is a progressive, more or less

17:17:10 mircea_popescu: ...

17:17:18 the_scourge: i think it's a misconception that yarvin started NRx or even is/was a leader in any way. he's a good writer. he is NRx, yes

17:17:23 mircea_popescu: can youstick to one nonsequitur per paragraph, instead of one per sentence.

17:17:32 mircea_popescu: nobody can chase an explosion of rabbits.

17:18:09 the_scourge: please point them out, i'll not say a word in the meantime

17:19:42 mircea_popescu: so let's leave aside the "therefore" bitcoin this and that, as i dun have the energy. instead, re "nrx" : i have little doubt that there are some kids in the us that thought the one repackaging of stuff they ran across is somehow more significant than all the repackagings they don't know, and definitely more significant than the originals. and that they need a name and so on. this exercise in nominalism does not instit

17:19:42 mircea_popescu: ute them as important, contrary to the tenets of the us religion of marketing.

17:20:06 mircea_popescu: so i'm not too inclined to see any of these lables as anything more than "ignorant kids from the us web". be it "nrx" or "neoreaction" or etc.

17:20:22 mircea_popescu: now, that make any sense ?

17:21:22 the_scourge: yes

17:21:41 mircea_popescu: ok. this much given, it can never be denied that the repackager of any one is, for all purposes, the 'leader'.

17:22:15 mircea_popescu: the entire thing having no further substance past repackaging, obviously the coca cola company is the coca cola thing, and yarvin is the "nrx" thing.

17:22:19 mircea_popescu: that much make sense ?

17:23:33 the_scourge: uh, about my first yes, i should have said i understood where you're coming from, but i'm not sure you're observations are at all correct. on the second yes, you're very much wrong

17:23:49 the_scourge: *second ... checkpoint :)

17:23:56 mircea_popescu: so then on the 2nd, "no, you're very much wrong"

17:23:58 fluffypony: GPG guy: http://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encryption-software-relies-on-one-guy-who-is-going-broke

17:24:00 assbot: The World’s Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who is Going Broke - ProPublica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cybgc4 )

17:24:14 mircea_popescu: fluffypony reheheheally.

17:24:33 fluffypony: thought it might be slightly relevant

17:24:36 mircea_popescu: fuck him, after gpg2 i'm happy to hear.

17:26:14 fluffypony: omfg wikipedia is down

17:26:14 the_scourge: fluffypony: it is relevant. this is another sign that society will colapse and i and many others were TOTALLY misguided on many thing in the last days of the empire

17:26:20 fluffypony: err'one panci

17:26:22 fluffypony: *panic

17:26:46 the_scourge: well who didn't pay them

17:26:59 fluffypony: the_scourge: I think we're going to end up like the people in Wall-E

17:27:04 *: the_scourge raises hand < don't call me a prick, no one else did

17:27:20 fluffypony: http://blogs.elpais.com/.a/6a00d8341bfb1653ef017d4158076b970c-pi

17:27:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJuuZo )

17:27:23 the_scourge: fluffypony: never seen it, would idiocracy be a similar example?

17:27:58 the_scourge: la wik is up again

17:28:00 fluffypony: oh my

17:28:07 fluffypony: let me see if there's a snippet

17:28:32 fluffypony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kngspqvHa0

17:28:33 assbot: Wall-E Fat People - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJuKHX )

17:28:40 mircea_popescu: http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Wall-E.html this /

17:28:42 assbot: Wall-E Script at IMSDb. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJuMiM )

17:28:45 fluffypony: or this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy0DDuf8fYw

17:28:46 assbot: Wall-E ... Social Media funny fat people - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJuMPW )

17:28:52 mircea_popescu: Warning: mysql_select_db() expects parameter 2 to be resource, boolean given in /home/imsdb/public_html/dbscon.php on line 5 << ahaha epic

17:29:12 *: the_scourge fires up tribler, i think mrs scourge would enjoy that one!

17:34:19 punkman: yarvin is the "nrx" thing. <- if not yarvin, who?

17:35:26 the_scourge: there are hundreds of writers. probably thousands like myself who haven't got a public profile.

17:35:34 the_scourge: do you want me to start rattling off urls?

17:35:40 mircea_popescu: by all means.

17:35:59 punkman: there is the LessWrong crowd, and the guy that left to make MoreRight

17:36:01 mircea_popescu: last time intel got the job to diagnose this (after princessnell brought it up) it turned out there's maybe a few dozen blogs, all dead.

17:36:21 punkman: but yarvin pretty much came up with the term "neoreactionary"

17:37:30 punkman: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of "writers" that saw "NRx" and thought "hey, Rx is the good stuff right"

17:37:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121189 @ 0.00039296 = 47.6224 BTC [+] {2}

17:37:39 mircea_popescu: lmai

17:38:29 mircea_popescu: actually it wouldn't surpriose me to find that's the process through which it was invented. all like nlp and shit, yarvin sat down and figured hey, this is going to positively attract the esl retards.

17:38:35 mircea_popescu: (where esl = english as a sole language)

17:39:23 *: fluffypony twitches every time he sees "nlp"

17:39:40 punkman: hey nlp is natural language processing, good stuff

17:39:45 fluffypony: hah hah

17:39:55 mircea_popescu: nlp is like, "the law of attaction", before it was dumbed down for daytime tv.

17:40:17 mircea_popescu: nlp/tloa

17:40:50 the_scourge: nick land, freenortherner, dalrock, sunshinemary, socialmatter.net darwinianreactionary.wordpress.com, anarchopapist, anomalyUK, cappy (captain capitalism) < all these have posts within the last week or less

17:41:02 mircea_popescu: there's something to be said for a society so dumb, even the scams have to be dumbed down lower and lower each generation.

17:41:20 punkman: the_scourge: well now it's "cool" to write about it

17:41:22 mircea_popescu: and the something that's to be said is : hory shit that puts isis, china and everyone else in a bad light

17:41:58 the_scourge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Eia

17:41:59 assbot: Harald Eia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cydubr )

17:42:40 mircea_popescu: whoa that guy looks sXe

17:43:06 pete_dushenski: heya the_scourge did you ever read http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/ ?

17:43:08 assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1CydE2w )

17:43:39 pete_dushenski: some of your fellow nx'ers picked up on an article of mine

17:43:46 pete_dushenski: nick land kicked it off

17:44:19 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski the proposition that kids should (or want to) "improve the world" is untenable.

17:44:31 mircea_popescu: they are busy with much more suited tasks : picking a group and figuring the hierarchy.

17:44:35 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: are you contravex.com ?

17:44:37 mike_c: but that title :D awesome.

17:44:46 mircea_popescu: mike_c that it is :D

17:45:03 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol i guess so

17:45:06 punkman: maybe "improve your world"

17:45:21 mircea_popescu: but it IS a perfectly valid if not the only available means for them to improve hteir world.

17:45:21 pete_dushenski: but from the perspective of reality-divorced idealists...

17:45:34 mircea_popescu: a while back they could also improve it by handing out at elbow of papa while papa worked

17:45:37 mircea_popescu: but now that's illegal.

17:45:41 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: mhm tis i

17:46:15 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski anyway, it's actually been in the logs.

17:46:16 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: well poseidon isn't wrong you are reactionary

17:46:19 mircea_popescu: !s nrx

17:46:20 assbot: 10 results for 'nrx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nrx

17:46:20 pete_dushenski: mike_c: ha ya i went for an mp-esque long one there

17:46:27 mircea_popescu: !s neoreaction

17:46:27 assbot: 9 results for 'neoreaction' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=neoreaction

17:46:31 mircea_popescu: hm wtf.

17:47:07 punkman: !s moldbug

17:47:08 assbot: 103 results for 'moldbug' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=moldbug

17:47:22 mircea_popescu: ah there we go, it's right, i forgot it indexes after a delay.

17:47:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2014#660125

17:47:24 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2014 01:39:07; mircea_popescu: i also picked up "nrx" today

17:49:45 the_scourge: i agree with everyone's sentiment regarding hipsters trying to figure out what ism they are. as someone who's had to earn all his priviledge, i went to uni with such people but cannot relate to them much. however didn't we just tell mr BigBitz and partner that it doesn't matter how hard you work, if you're working on the wrong thing?

17:49:46 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/#comment-8560 << alrenous guy seems pretty cogent.

17:49:47 assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyeqwx )

17:50:18 mircea_popescu: the_scourge so how do these two come together in your reasoning there ?

17:50:55 mircea_popescu: !up BigBitz

17:51:03 the_scourge: right, so we know that working on a stupid protocol or technology is just wasting time. what about working within a social framework which is even more broken?

17:51:05 BigBitz: You told me, what?

17:51:34 BigBitz: the_scourge ... ?

17:51:36 mircea_popescu: the_scourge but you see the difference between working on and working within ?

17:51:49 the_scourge: BigBitz: sorry, was it your friend Rippleflip who was the proprietor of those sites

17:51:50 mircea_popescu: like, working on a mud pie is stupid, working in a badly designed house may or may not be stupid ?

17:51:52 the_scourge: ?

17:51:54 BigBitz: my friend, lol.

17:51:55 BigBitz: No.

17:52:06 BigBitz: I have no idea who he is. I banned him from -otc originally.

17:52:23 BigBitz: don't associate me with him ;)

17:52:40 the_scourge: oh! ... i joined today at the point where you said "opportunity of a lifetime" < perhaps slightly /sarc ? :)

17:52:48 BigBitz: massively.

17:52:48 the_scourge: BigBitz: i won't, sorry!

17:53:20 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: i can see the difference

17:53:39 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski if you got the guy's email by virtue of him commenting, and you don't mind, drop him a note saying i loathe blogspot, but if he has time drop by for a chat.

17:53:40 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:54:05 the_scourge: i think "badly designed" might be giving too much credence

17:54:30 mircea_popescu: the_scourge the standing advice for all usians has been "get the fuck out of the us" for at least a year.

17:54:48 mircea_popescu: some people listen, most don't, which hey. sounds almost like irl.

17:54:53 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/mpif-fmpif-january-2015-statement/

17:56:16 mircea_popescu: the jews found themselves in a similar situation all through the 30s.

17:56:32 mircea_popescu: (and in this perspective, the holocaust is proper and well deserved fucking punishment. next time - listen better.)

17:56:57 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: good advice but as a non-USian who has spent 90% of his life outside the US and 100% of his adult life outside of N/A, and has lived in non-western places as well, i think there could be something said for living for a short while in california or new england

17:57:15 mircea_popescu: yeah, but in the 90s.

17:57:19 mircea_popescu: mebbe 00s.

17:57:39 the_scourge: why? the cracks weren't as obvious then

17:57:56 the_scourge: i lived in socal in mid-90s. i could see them, but they were not obvious

17:58:08 the_scourge: i think a teenager today would find them obvious.

17:58:39 mircea_popescu: kinda the proof that it's too late.

17:58:59 the_scourge: too late to prepare?

17:59:05 mircea_popescu: no, too late to bother visiting.

17:59:25 the_scourge: why would you go other than to see the cracks and be warned?

18:00:03 mircea_popescu: the only reason one'd ever go to either republic, would be to fuck college girls.

18:00:07 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: definitely. i'm answering one of his comments right now, as it so happens

18:01:14 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008336 << this is now stuck at 124275

18:01:14 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 15:41:29; punkman: running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far

18:01:28 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: you seem to have read some of nick land

18:01:52 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: a handful, sure

18:02:14 pete_dushenski: i think i referenced another one of his articles in the comments section of that first one

18:02:26 pete_dushenski: it wasn't half-bad

18:02:35 pete_dushenski: some strong points, some weaker ones

18:04:20 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/#comment-8576

18:04:22 assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyhbhe )

18:04:23 the_scourge: lol but you quote moldbug as nick land!

18:04:33 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: ^ fix that quick!

18:05:15 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: lol read more closely

18:05:25 pete_dushenski: i said that it was nick's article

18:05:40 pete_dushenski: on his blog, not that he was the author of the points

18:05:59 pete_dushenski: nick calls it "his manifesto"

18:06:00 the_scourge: ok fine

18:06:04 the_scourge: what....

18:06:05 pete_dushenski: ;)

18:06:06 the_scourge: wut?

18:06:08 the_scourge: really?

18:06:52 pete_dushenski: "If there is a ‘we’ — this is what we believe." <<

18:07:04 pete_dushenski: if that's not a manifesto...

18:07:19 mircea_popescu: it seems to me this entire "we" whatever it is, if it had any sense whatever, would show up here.

18:07:38 mircea_popescu: it's unclear if we politically agree or not, but it is not yet in any sense clear we disagree to any degree, and more importantly, we have nuclear weapons.

18:07:42 mircea_popescu: they do not.

18:08:08 mircea_popescu: so in the sense western "intellectuals" migrated to russia in the 30s, they're stuck migrating here anyway.

18:08:52 pete_dushenski: alrenous' invite: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/31/on-pretending-googling-is-still-a-thing-that-works/#comment-9857

18:08:53 assbot: On pretending “Googling” is still a thing that works any more than “USG” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyi3m8 )

18:09:08 the_scourge: oh yah he takes it as a manifesto. obviously my reaction would only be for those who are meticulously combing through UR, and haven't even bothered to have a gander at xenosystems yet

18:10:01 mircea_popescu: "What is this? The first*, the biggest** and the best*** IRC community." kakobrekla you sly* dog** you*** :D

18:10:08 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this exactly. twas my comment about nrx not grokking economics, money, and the fundaments of power

18:10:24 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu see footnotes :p

18:10:27 mircea_popescu: night's still young

18:10:32 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla o i have :)

18:10:36 kakobrekla: a ok:)

18:11:10 mircea_popescu: "Say what? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com" < can this be "Say what? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com << Read this. Now."

18:11:12 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyinRO )

18:12:48 the_scourge: the question is, have NRx found out that we actually live in a world where 'nuclear' weapons don't do anything? that's potentially one of the corellaries to the entire argument

18:13:54 mircea_popescu: coro

18:14:33 mircea_popescu: mod6: looks like 'i've only got 1: blk0001.dat, 985Mb <<< heh how about that, first 168k blocks fit in 1gb, the next 168k blocks fit in 35 gb.

18:15:05 mircea_popescu: if the next 168k blocks fit in 1.25 tb we're so fucked...

18:16:09 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i've read more xeno that ur, it so happens

18:16:25 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: and nuclear weapons most definitely do something

18:16:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> chick's so drastically ugly tho... << pretty indicative of the tail to which us brass has access << kinda my supposition yeah. kinda sad if true. the competition to be him is at least 100k to 1. the competition to be her ? it's like superunitary, 0.x to 1.

18:16:28 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: ah that explains my crossed wires

18:16:50 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski which is this xeno thing it seems familiar somehow

18:17:00 pete_dushenski: we're essentially assembled here to make sure wmds do something productive

18:17:55 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Everyone who wanted qntra to have a category page << remove the <li>, separate them by ; instead ?

18:17:56 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: nick land's blog. what first put me on to "nrx" as per http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-144/

18:17:59 assbot: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Quote note (#144) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyjgd6 )

18:18:11 mircea_popescu: oh now i know whence i know him, he linked to me a few times.

18:18:23 mircea_popescu: !s nick land

18:18:23 assbot: 4 results for 'nick land' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nick+land

18:18:52 pete_dushenski: not hugely surprising

18:19:03 pete_dushenski: that he STILL hasn't showed up here... is

18:19:25 mircea_popescu: Bitcoin address: 18YKtNeAy43kFVBzynHeusiaiiAa8pCZFP no less.

18:19:30 pete_dushenski: how long do people have to admire from a distance before talking to the pretty girl ?

18:19:54 pete_dushenski: particularly when the pretty girl is friendly and open to conversation like 20/24 hrs every day

18:20:06 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/18YKtNeAy43kFVBzynHeusiaiiAa8pCZFP << sole txn lol.

18:20:08 assbot: Bitcoin Address 18YKtNeAy43kFVBzynHeusiaiiAa8pCZFP ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyjrFa )

18:20:09 pete_dushenski: on a digital forum where you don't even need to fuss about body language

18:21:04 ben_vulpes: <kakobrekla> [] http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008005 < did no such thing << my mistake, figured it out

18:21:04 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:53:48; ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?

18:21:11 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: because most don't quite understand the point. i kinda get the perceived problem (thanks to alf) but the solution, while cool, hasn't struck me as nuclear (yet)

18:21:20 ben_vulpes: anyways, good morning

18:21:36 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you were on twatter right ?

18:21:45 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: yep

18:21:55 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: morning!

18:21:59 mircea_popescu: ask @Outsideness if he still has the priv key to that bitcoin addy ?

18:22:32 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: it does take a significant amount of interest in investing, monetary history, politics, to grasp

18:22:43 trinque: anybody know how to tell btcd to start from a previous block and re-generate the rest?

18:23:10 mircea_popescu: glwt.

18:23:21 trinque: that fuss about orphan blocks in btcd's log the other day was a jacked drive, killed 3 ldb files out of 15k

18:24:04 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron <command-line>:0:0: warning: "_FORTIFY_SOURCE" redefined << that doesn't sound so good.

18:24:19 mircea_popescu: somehow running a duplicate along with the original or something ?

18:24:19 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: yah, i thought i had a modicum of those things and while i totally grasp it, my age + intution is doing this thing saying: it would never pan out like that anyways"

18:24:35 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/563402724666900480

18:24:37 assbot: Hey /Outsideness, I'm curious: do you still have the private key for this address ? https://t.co/4euFxZqSW8

18:24:44 danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, that's a compilation error

18:25:23 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: huh funny thing that intuition sometimes

18:25:36 pete_dushenski: mine told me the exact opposite

18:25:39 mircea_popescu: the_scourge the nuclear part is explained here : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-01-2015#987147

18:25:39 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 23:53:56; mircea_popescu: jurov for what it's worth, here's my experience with bitcoin remittances : i sent btc to otc correspondents, ordered wires sent out to the hk account of my local agent, who has paid me dollars, in cash, in argentina. the entire process took less than what it takes to get a letter of credit, and significantly less than what international trade normally settles in.

18:26:04 danielpbarron: and it turns out there's an error before that one; currently trying to compile as root in case it's something i messed up with the cross compiler install

18:26:11 mircea_popescu: ahak

18:26:27 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: but i need to formulate my concerns. it's mostly to do with ... if you've succeeded in preserving a clean, elegant, un-pwnable bitcoind variant, then all the poser cyperpunks GTFO, leaving only a small minority of (VERY valuable BTC) who are then in a VERY phys-sec vulnerable position

18:26:40 the_scourge: but i need to write this out in a better way ^

18:26:45 the_scourge: reading link

18:27:24 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: ya the "phys-sec" thing is something i've heard about for years and years now

18:27:55 pete_dushenski: to which bitcoin responds: 1) deniability, and 2) fuck you

18:28:15 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski yeah. me too. specifically : here. most recently, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-01-2015#999217

18:28:15 assbot: Logged on 31-01-2015 01:25:17; mircea_popescu: so no, when i'm talking about hanging each and every us bureaucrat, through a war crimes court, within our lifetime i am not being in any sense and to any degree metaphorical.

18:28:37 mircea_popescu: but more generally, http://fraudsters.com/2014/georg-ritter-von-flondor-and-what-his-unhappy-life-can-teach-us/

18:28:38 assbot: Georg Ritter von Flondor, and what his unhappy life can teach us pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/16vmosh )

18:28:44 pete_dushenski: did the kings and aristocrats that nrx'ers so rose-tintedly adore stay under their sheets all day ?

18:29:05 mircea_popescu: mno.

18:29:25 pete_dushenski: right

18:29:36 mircea_popescu: anyway : the only people in a very untenable phys-sec position are the various bureaucrats, us or otherwise.

18:29:38 pete_dushenski: so why would we, their heirs ?

18:29:38 mircea_popescu: we'll be fine.

18:30:09 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: it's worth noting that most people "in bitcoin" tremble in fear a lot

18:30:18 the_scourge: reading

18:30:20 pete_dushenski: mostly because that's what they've always done

18:30:57 the_scourge: woah deja vue

18:31:05 pete_dushenski: this is where we flip the table and say, "now hold on just a minute. if we have the power, and we do, who should be scared of who now?"

18:31:11 the_scourge: i remember seeing that war crimes comment a LONG time ago

18:31:28 the_scourge: and i'm pretty sure i came in here to ask about it...

18:32:02 pete_dushenski: hang out here long enough and your fears about phys-sec (and most other things) slowly dissipate

18:32:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 'the new state-of-the-art destroyer << is this the story that late bogart film was based on ? "mutiny on the bounty" i think it was called.

18:32:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1700 @ 0.00096968 = 1.6485 BTC [+] {6}

18:32:36 mircea_popescu: the_scourge if you did log probably has the line somewhere.

18:33:37 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: what... how are we the heirs???

18:33:56 mircea_popescu: jews don't understand this heritage concept like normal people.

18:34:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00039193 = 20.4196 BTC [-]

18:35:45 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i suppose this is another admonition not to use "we"

18:36:25 the_scourge: ok hang on. are you REALLY saying that greed is more powerful and delusion (or religion)? because if you want to buy hitmen or hold the entire world ransom to a dirty bomb or nuclear warheads, you're going to 1. have to find really fucking greedy nuclear engineers and/or suicide bombers and/or military guys

18:36:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: when you plug a lamp into a mains socket, is that also a 'streaming query' ? << win :D

18:36:44 the_scourge: *that delusion or religion

18:36:51 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol so it would seem

18:37:04 mircea_popescu: the_scourge you don't understand how the world works :)

18:37:32 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: have you ever seen someone explode themselves to influence the course of history? i have, in person

18:37:38 the_scourge: it wasn't for bitcoin or fiat

18:37:57 mircea_popescu: this is not what's being discussed. you proceed from the naive locus where the bureaucrat somehow= the entire world.

18:37:59 the_scourge: an btw the progressive delusion is FAR more powerful that the allah delusion, it's more craft and more sublte

18:38:01 mircea_popescu: nothing can be further from the truth.

18:38:09 mircea_popescu: the only subhuman profession is bureaucracy.

18:38:23 mircea_popescu: there's no need to hold anyone hostage to enact a public gutting of government servants.

18:38:28 mircea_popescu: it's their natural fate.

18:38:37 the_scourge: dude i am arguing the exact opposite. the beueaucrat has NOT power whatsoever. that is the entire point

18:38:43 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i'd say allah's been around longer so... lindy effect

18:38:45 mircea_popescu: cool. so they're getting it.

18:39:19 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> anyway : the only people in a very untenable phys-sec position are the various bureaucrats, us or otherwise. <<

18:39:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00039193 = 10.4841 BTC [-]

18:39:55 the_scourge: right, but the religionists might defend them (or their right to a trial) to the death

18:39:58 mircea_popescu: see also the always popular

18:40:02 mircea_popescu: !s we know where you live

18:40:03 assbot: 4 results for 'we know where you live' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=we+know+where+you+live

18:40:15 mircea_popescu: sure sure, or else jesus might visit.

18:40:22 the_scourge: wtf

18:40:28 pete_dushenski: ...assuming "progressives" are in the french revolutionary vein

18:40:30 the_scourge: i don't understand waht that has to do with it

18:40:48 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: they all are

18:40:57 mircea_popescu: lolz.

18:40:58 the_scourge: it's homogenous, this is provable

18:41:05 mircea_popescu: i guess then it will get proven.

18:41:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, tell gavin i'm off to eat.

18:41:44 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: all = modern only. rousseau didn't invent socialism

18:41:48 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: sure, i'll pick it up later, remember your question

18:42:09 the_scourge: all = the ones we have to worry about

18:42:28 pete_dushenski: perhaps, but not the only ones to learn from

18:42:54 pete_dushenski: and it's not clear to me that religionists are going to risk their necks for paper-pushers

18:43:04 the_scourge: wait, are you suggesting that socialism isn't part of The Cathedral?

18:43:25 pete_dushenski: tc being... ?

18:43:29 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: by religionists, i mean atheists

18:43:53 pete_dushenski: meh "atheists" are just as religious as the next

18:44:05 pete_dushenski: their alter is scientism

18:44:17 the_scourge: no, we need to end this conv.

18:44:39 the_scourge: because that's not what i mean at all.

18:44:45 the_scourge: er.. not end, just pause for a sec

18:45:23 pete_dushenski: no rush

18:45:35 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: if you read how dawkins got pwned, then you'll understand what i mean by religionists

18:45:59 pete_dushenski: dawkins got pwned ?

18:46:09 *: pete_dushenski is ignorant of this

18:46:41 the_scourge: actually to be honest you really need to the gentle introduction and take the red pill, do the original sources on the revolutionary war, then read the dawkins stuff, then 'open letter'

18:46:59 the_scourge: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-1.html

18:47:00 assbot: Unqualified Reservations: How Dawkins got pwned (part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1CymDRd )

18:48:30 chetty: so what ya'll think about the 'journalist' caught in the big lie? will it help people 'get it' about the news?

18:49:09 the_scourge: chetty: are you talking about CHris Kyle? ... i guess he is a 'journalist' lol

18:49:12 the_scourge: *was

18:49:31 pete_dushenski: The God delusion is a parasitic meme because, being alien to reason, it does not serve the interests of the host. << utter nonsense

18:49:54 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: explain?

18:50:09 pete_dushenski: that's quite specifically what religion is for: coping, thus survival

18:50:49 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: you've obviously not aquainted yourself with NRx at all. if you chose to read a little and open your mind, it will hurt for several days

18:51:30 the_scourge: but yes, we have all been taught our whole lives that religion is for coping, atheists worship 'science', etc etc

18:51:59 the_scourge: trust me, those assertions seem like total nonsense to me now, even though i fully believed them as recently as 3 weeks ago

18:52:31 *: the_scourge was a total progressive. a libertarian, tory, ancap progressive

18:52:49 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: are you american?

18:52:50 pete_dushenski: whatever is was, it got you here right?

18:53:22 pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i'm in edmonton. and iirc you're in canada too

18:53:23 mike_c: <+the_scourge> trust me, those assertions seem like total nonsense to me now, even though i fully believed them as recently as 3 weeks ago << imagine what you'll whole heartedly believe a month from now!

18:54:47 the_scourge: mike_c: i'm starting to think that i've taken a pill which ran an end-run around #b-a ... not sure yet

18:55:30 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: oh yah cool BC is my stomping grounds but i worked in eddyville for a few summers

18:56:07 pete_dushenski: the summer's the time to be here :)

18:56:24 chetty: <the_scourge> chetty: are you talking about CHris Kyle? ... i guess he is a 'journalist' lol// no Brian Williams

18:59:04 trinque: +the_scourge | mike_c: i'm starting to think that i've taken a pill which ran an end-run around #b-a ... not sure yet << I came for the bitcoin, stayed for the mindfuck

18:59:57 chetty: <trinque> +the_scourge | mike_c: i'm starting to think that i've taken a pill which ran an end-run around #b-a ... not sure yet << I came for the bitcoin, stayed for the mindfuck// aren't they the same thing?

19:00:11 the_scourge: trinque: ok, having experienced both, i'm pretty sure old moldbug is a much better mindfuck

19:02:20 punkman: contemplation takes time

19:02:33 punkman: pill taking not encouraged

19:02:45 the_scourge: i agree the perspective here is refreshing and contrarian

19:02:54 the_scourge: but it only goes halfway

19:03:27 pete_dushenski: kinda soon to make that call neh?

19:04:05 ben_vulpes: hey so why did the hipster burn himself on his coffee?

19:04:26 lobbes: he drank it before it was cool

19:04:33 trinque: heyooo

19:04:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, where were we.

19:04:37 ben_vulpes: ka-zing

19:04:54 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: we were halfway...

19:05:26 the_scourge: pete_dushenski: probably, yes. i do like to hear things out. but i wish it was more prosaic in this case!

19:06:16 pete_dushenski: ah but then you'd miss out on the mosaic!

19:06:50 the_scourge: obviously not everyone in the world enjoys prose, otherwise everyone in the world would agree with modlbug that atheists worship equality, not science

19:07:17 mircea_popescu: the_scourge: wait, are you suggesting that socialism isn't part of The Cathedral? << a) "the cathedral" is about as solid a concept as moldbug's new os.

19:07:18 *: the_scourge does not want mosaics, he wants answers. diversity is for suckers

19:07:24 mircea_popescu: b) not really worth going into after that.

19:07:42 the_scourge: explain why the concept does not reflect reality

19:08:22 chetty: <the_scourge> obviously not everyone in the world enjoys prose, otherwise everyone in the world would agree with modlbug that atheists worship equality, not science// atheists worship not worshiping

19:08:30 the_scourge: er, please explain :)

19:08:49 mircea_popescu: im sorry, i don't do that. if you wish to use it, introduce it. as per http://fraudsters.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/

19:08:49 assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CypPwf )

19:09:11 mircea_popescu: yarvin doesn't get an out of jail free card just because he is "with us", as opposed to whoever, golf club pattern proponent

19:09:29 mircea_popescu: they're just as much pseudo, the political motivation of pseudoscience makes not on wit of difference.

19:10:19 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: if you want a first principles argument for the existence of the cathedral, that has been given already. i'm not going to repeat it in an IRC channel. everyone knows where to find it, i'm just wondering why you in particular haven't looked at it

19:10:39 the_scourge: if it helps, let me vouch that it IS first principles and it is worthy of your time

19:10:45 the_scourge: brb, eating

19:10:54 mircea_popescu: well so then there the conversation ends. you are a believer in some strange notions that don't carry currency here.

19:11:18 mircea_popescu: not teh first, not teh last, nothing wrong with it.

19:11:46 mod6: <+punkman> running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far << check out this patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html

19:11:47 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1D22jX3 )

19:11:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyqcqK )

19:20:36 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: ok it wasn't quite ready. it's not a strange notion what can be argued from first principles. i'm agreeing with your post

19:21:04 mircea_popescu: not like there's any rush. the logs stretch endlessly.

19:21:25 the_scourge: the part about the socialist professors and their books rings esp. true. what you fail to realize is that everything YOU believe falls into the same category (minus the stuff which can be argued from first principles)

19:21:44 the_scourge: it = supper

19:22:45 the_scourge: so what carries currency here does not matter. reality matters. that is it. we've been living in a suspension of reality for at least 300 years, so i'm not surprised that our conversation is missing each other

19:23:03 *: pete_dushenski grabs popcorn

19:23:20 mircea_popescu: well if what carries currency here doens't matter, why are you talking ?

19:23:34 mircea_popescu: dun waste your time, you don't have so much of it. go do something that matters somewhere where it does.

19:23:56 chetty: the_scourge, only 300?

19:24:16 the_scourge: chetty: no, that is a minimum figure

19:24:37 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: http://media.giphy.com/media/yhbze3D8QhFe0/giphy.gif

19:24:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyrCkR )

19:26:16 pete_dushenski: anyone care to translate this pdf of the_scourge's ? http://www.moreright.net/a-gentle-introduction-to-unqualified-reservations-pdf/

19:26:19 assbot: A Gentle Introduction to Unqualified Reservations — PDF | More Right ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyrRfR )

19:26:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00039333 = 17.8178 BTC [+]

19:26:53 the_scourge: http://moldbuggery.blogspot.ca/ < here you go. html, under the section titled "a gentle introduction"

19:26:54 assbot: Moldbuggery ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyrQbI )

19:27:49 pete_dushenski: goodness gracious... what a dozen posts and 15,000 words each ?

19:28:00 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: you've yet to meet mr mold?

19:28:00 mircea_popescu: yeah, the guy was verbose.

19:28:22 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: nah i'm familiar with his work

19:28:42 pete_dushenski: have i read mold as exhaustively as asciilifeform ? no. have i read some ? yes

19:29:12 ben_vulpes: i remember some really long stony nights in college going through the works

19:29:17 pete_dushenski: reading the fraudsters pieces in his direction were a sufficient cure to reading more

19:29:39 mircea_popescu: anyway, that "how dawkins got pwned" thing reads to me like "unemployed grad was playing Plague Inc. on his ipad while dawkins was on tv"

19:29:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform's a sucker for punishment

19:29:58 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: russian, neh ? ;)

19:30:11 mircea_popescu: the similarities are shocking.

19:30:18 ben_vulpes: not only expects, but welcomes the stake.

19:30:26 pete_dushenski: lmao

19:30:31 ben_vulpes: "at long last, my expectations are fulfilled."

19:30:40 pete_dushenski: #calledit

19:30:55 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes actually i confess i do the same sort of obsessive rereading myself. tho perhaps not on orlov and yarvin

19:31:01 mircea_popescu: but then again...

19:31:14 ben_vulpes: OKAY CLIENT WHY AREN'T YOU IN OUR CONFERENCE CALL

19:31:32 mircea_popescu: he wants you to hang out here moar.

19:31:59 pete_dushenski: and work on 0.5.3!

19:32:06 ben_vulpes: myeah i want this too

19:35:34 mircea_popescu: "In the more recent past, the Allied victors eradicated militarist traditions in Germany and Japan through their control of the educational system." << lulzy. and of course, defeated japanese and german troops erradicated the same in the us and its allies by... also control of the educational system ?

19:35:49 mircea_popescu: "o no wait, that's what we wanted anyway" "like fuck you did"

19:36:42 pete_dushenski: moldbug?

19:37:13 mircea_popescu: yeah.

19:37:47 pete_dushenski: i scanned that dawkins piece a bit more... there were more unfounded claims than i could take

19:37:54 pete_dushenski: so: in the trash

19:38:04 mircea_popescu: kinda the problem with this guy, he's writing a bizarre sort of fiction.

19:39:47 mircea_popescu: "For example, one common trope in various religious traditions is asceticism: the voluntary renunciation of material comforts. Since this tends to be much easier for those who start out wealthy and comfortable, it's an effective status marker."

19:39:55 pete_dushenski: "Christianity is simply a set of behavioral patterns that harm other human patterns in some respect and help in others. Catholic priesthood does, however, exhibit parasitic (viral) behavior on fatherhood."

19:40:05 mircea_popescu: fucking a. didn't this guy as retold by asciilifeform end up sucking cock because "gentleman" in his own opinion ?

19:40:07 pete_dushenski: too anti-religious for me

19:40:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, enough of this.

19:40:29 pete_dushenski: not like god-worship is sane, just that it works

19:40:35 pete_dushenski: myea

19:41:43 pete_dushenski: Ukrainian Central bank raises overnight refinancing rate to 23% from 17.5%

19:42:04 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: that's quite specifically what religion is for: coping, thus survival << that coping worked better pre industrial revolution that post.

19:42:26 pete_dushenski: granted

19:42:36 mircea_popescu: on which score, orwell has an excellent quote

19:42:44 mircea_popescu: one sec to package it so it doesn't end up flooding log

19:42:58 pete_dushenski: modern technology is marvellous for coping

19:43:39 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/1T7Z9SG <

19:43:41 assbot: dpaste: 1T7Z9SG ... ( http://bit.ly/1FaZLph )

19:45:31 mircea_popescu: "Mr Upward would no doubt answer that a belief which was appropriate several centuries ago might be inappropriate and therefore stultifying now. But this does not get one much farther, because it assumes that in any age there will be ONE body of belief which is the current approximation to truth, and that the best literature of the time will be more or less in harmony with it. Actually no such uniformity has ever exist

19:45:31 mircea_popescu: ed. In seventeenth-century England, for instance, there was a religious and political cleavage which distinctly resembled the left-right antagonism of to-day. Looking back, most modern people would feel that the bourgeois-Puritan viewpoint was a better approximation to truth than the Catholic-feudal one. But it is certainly not the case that all or even a majority of the best writers of the time were puritans."

19:45:32 danielpbarron: ;;later tell asciilifeform any suggestions? this output is from your auto.sh -> http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-error.txt

19:45:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fb0cjo )

19:45:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:45:35 mircea_popescu: as a great quote.

19:46:49 mircea_popescu: his general point is well taken : as whole groups, the burgeois-puritans were more on point than the feudal-catholics. however, (and he says it, but he hides it too because he does not want to confront it) : as elites, the catholics mashed the puritans into the ground.

19:46:55 mircea_popescu: because, then as now, socialism does not work.

19:47:13 mike_c: danielpbarron: looks like you are missing zlib, no?

19:47:25 mircea_popescu: nobody wants a plate of twelve "kinda-shitty" dishes when he could have an exquisite dish and eleven helpings of garbage, readily discarded.

19:48:08 danielpbarron: i guess there are some dependancies that most users are assumed to already have on their system, mike_c ?

19:48:29 danielpbarron: i thought maybe it was all contained in the three tarballs in distfiles/

19:48:44 mircea_popescu: if it isn't it must be!

19:49:38 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: "nobody" wise

19:50:08 pete_dushenski: this does not include those disposed towards "the starving kids in africa"

19:50:09 mike_c: danielpbarron: can you link me to it

19:50:11 mircea_popescu: well, nopbody capable of want.

19:50:24 mircea_popescu: obviously the garbage composter will take either just as happily, and so would the toilet.

19:50:26 danielpbarron: mike_c, to what? auto.sh?

19:50:29 mike_c: yeah

19:50:52 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: want of materials, yes

19:51:00 pete_dushenski: want of "rights" less so ;)

19:51:07 danielpbarron: mike_c, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150128/auto_5acaf3182f7d59b9ef11dc90f80bdcc4f8fdd59c.sh

19:51:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyuFd1 )

19:51:12 pete_dushenski: this is the railroad vs. freedom debate

19:53:17 pete_dushenski: "It seems therefore that for a creative writer possession of the 'truth' is less important than emotional sincerity." << well said

19:54:11 mircea_popescu: remarkably, wikipedia manages to write however many words on poe without mentioning the guy was batshit insane.

19:54:51 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:54:55 ascii_field: danke mircea_popescu

19:55:01 mircea_popescu: doing ddos research ? :D

19:55:25 ascii_field: heavy industrial pipe here.

19:55:39 ascii_field: danielpbarron: it's all wrong

19:55:54 thestringpuller: oh hey ascii_field left his house

19:55:55 ascii_field: danielpbarron: no, it should -not- be using any libs installed on your box

19:56:01 danielpbarron: that's what i thought

19:56:03 ascii_field: not openssl, not bdb

19:56:08 ascii_field: and from your dump, it clearly is

19:56:15 danielpbarron: hrm

19:56:28 ascii_field: check that 1) you actually built them 2) results went to the specified dir 3) envir vars got set to point there

19:56:32 ascii_field: one of 1, 2, 3 - is false.

19:57:18 mircea_popescu: 3 bering my guess

19:57:20 danielpbarron: will do; thank you for the insight

19:57:27 ascii_field: have it dump'em

19:57:32 ascii_field: the vars, that is

19:57:32 mircea_popescu: probably they're in the path, but not being defaulted to

19:57:42 mike_c: the export lines look ok..

19:57:45 ascii_field: other thing is

19:57:55 ascii_field: try building on a box that doesn't even -have- the libs

19:58:01 ascii_field: (installed the usual way)

19:58:04 ascii_field: that way - no confusion

19:58:04 mircea_popescu: well then it'll work, nothing to default to

19:58:24 ascii_field: no, then, assuming nothing changed, will croak

19:58:46 ascii_field: the locally built libs either 1) aren't there 2) aren't pointed to by the envir.

19:59:07 ascii_field: and here's another dead giveaway

19:59:12 ascii_field: the thing shouldn't ever be asking for zlib!

19:59:17 ascii_field: read build.sh

19:59:48 ascii_field: clearly marked, zlib is toggled off; and, in the comment, warns that recent 'boost' is braindamaged and demands it anyway

20:00:02 mircea_popescu: there's that.

20:00:03 ascii_field: hence, either 1) your build is trying to use a 'modern' boost

20:00:19 ascii_field: 2) your build isn't even happening with the patched (non-zlib) makefile

20:00:33 ascii_field: (you did patch, right?)

20:00:36 danielpbarron: yes

20:00:38 ascii_field: ok

20:00:40 ascii_field: then (1)

20:00:49 ascii_field: tertium non datur

20:01:06 danielpbarron: but just to clarify, i'm supposed to patch with the portatronic thing after the chicken etc.. patches?

20:01:15 ascii_field: yes

20:01:21 ascii_field: though technically shouldn't conflict with any of them

20:01:24 danielpbarron: and that all seems to work with no errors

20:01:36 danielpbarron: i think i tried the portatronic patch first and it didn't work

20:01:45 ascii_field: what was the output ?

20:01:51 danielpbarron: i don't recall and didn't save it

20:02:01 ascii_field: 'pikz or didnt happen'

20:02:10 ascii_field: (TM)

20:02:16 danielpbarron: i can repeat for you

20:02:26 ascii_field: may be useful

20:04:03 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: http://tm.shithouse.tv

20:04:04 assbot: ™ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyw9nx )

20:04:45 mircea_popescu: http://www.ussiowa.org/general/html/willie_d.htm << ok this is a great fucking read.

20:04:46 assbot: The Willie D ... ( http://bit.ly/1CywdUc )

20:04:52 mircea_popescu: check out the meta-nsa at work !

20:13:43 ascii_field: http://tech.mit.edu/V134/N60/walterlewin.html << somehow missed this when it was on

20:13:44 assbot: MIT cuts ties with Walter Lewin after online harassment probe - The Tech ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fb6AqH )

20:13:54 ascii_field: ^ physics prof purged

20:15:06 mircea_popescu: "Institute revokes emeritus title, removes online courses of popular physics professor who starred in viral videos"

20:15:35 mircea_popescu: if i weren't so lazy i guess i'd organise a special cell to create these derpy "controversies" about every single intellectually productive us person and have the academia "sever ties" with them.

20:15:49 mircea_popescu: fortunately, i am lazy. also fortunately, it's a job that does itself.

20:16:40 ascii_field: what'd be the objective ?

20:17:08 ascii_field: that they defect? or simply denied to the enemy ?

20:17:26 mircea_popescu: well, the enemy proposes that relevancy is a matter of headcount.

20:17:35 mircea_popescu: so... it's a win-win move.

20:18:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128300 @ 0.00039338 = 50.4707 BTC [+] {2}

20:18:21 mircea_popescu: "With his wiry grayish-brown hair, his tortoiseshell glasses and his intensity, Professor Lewin is the iconic brilliant scientist ? he is at once larger than life and totally accessible."

20:18:28 mircea_popescu: "which is great, unless he fucks someone"

20:19:13 the_scourge: excommunicate him! heretic! :) < it's galileo all over again

20:20:23 ascii_field: hey if j. watson can be lowered into pederasty, why not any other greybeard lecturer

20:20:31 mircea_popescu: quite.

20:20:59 mircea_popescu: "never interrupt the enemy when he's making a mistake". fortunately the internet makes so that "help him instead" remains undetectable.

20:20:59 ascii_field: it isn't like they have an alternative 'pepsi usa' which they can escape to and help it build death rays.

20:21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the notion that there exists an ending for every character doesn't hold.

20:21:37 ascii_field: ?

20:21:57 mircea_popescu: whether they have or they don't have a choice today, it makes little difference.

20:23:41 ascii_field: watson is a special case here (see his auction escapade, for instance) - but a garden-variety physics prof going 'on strike' means: taxicab

20:23:52 mircea_popescu: no it does not.

20:24:07 mircea_popescu: it could as well mean blog going "Fuck you, of course I fuck my students!"

20:24:10 mircea_popescu: i'd blogroll it.

20:24:48 ascii_field: and how does that fix the fella up with food & house ?

20:24:55 mircea_popescu: the "turn the other cheek" folk over there. the "if you as much as bother a hair of my beard I'll gouge your fucking eyes out with your own detached ribs" folk over here.

20:25:26 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:25:30 ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu

20:25:34 mircea_popescu: why'd you expect one's finances to derive from one's politics ?

20:26:16 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: actually just that. pointing out that virtually none of the people involved are 'free men' in the sense of having any kind of independent finance

20:26:24 mircea_popescu: so ?

20:26:34 mircea_popescu: neither were any of the men involved in, say, the end of the soviet union.

20:26:39 ascii_field: actually

20:26:41 mircea_popescu: quite more literally than is the case here, anyway.

20:27:31 ascii_field: one of the few genuinely valuable nuggets in orlov is his summary (for engl. folks) of how sov. supply chain had such abundant slack (no 'just in time' anywhere) that many folks had access to serious stashes of $good

20:28:28 mircea_popescu: they built that access.

20:28:31 ascii_field: e.g., if you worked at a paper factory in '91-93, you had a good chance of becoming de-facto owner of a hundred tonnes of paper - suddenly unobtainable in the usual way - and some pull.

20:28:33 mircea_popescu: and, actually, that slack, too.

20:28:44 mircea_popescu: do you know how much time and effort the central command spent trying to narrow it down ?

20:28:53 mircea_popescu: 90% of all available anything, towards the end of things.

20:28:57 ascii_field: aha.

20:29:02 mircea_popescu: well ?

20:29:05 ascii_field: except - orcs, so it was hopeless

20:29:10 the_scourge: doesn't our politics and philosophy entirely derive from our finances? it's pretty clear that a liberal is just a fascist with effective plumbing and sanitary solutions

20:29:22 mircea_popescu: it is not so clear.

20:30:01 mircea_popescu: for one thing, the fascists had better plumbing than the us does.

20:30:55 the_scourge: er, sorry i didn't mean to reference one specific form of fascism ... i should have used 'left' and 'right' instead

20:31:03 the_scourge: looking for citation right now....

20:31:57 mircea_popescu: the_scourge are you looking for the log bit about the spanish revolutionary right ?

20:32:14 ascii_field: !s answer lies in the sewers

20:32:14 assbot: 11 results for 'answer lies in the sewers' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=answer+lies+in+the+sewers

20:33:23 mircea_popescu: look at that, all alf :)

20:35:17 the_scourge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/20/smelly-environment-gay-marriage_n_5358253.html

20:35:19 assbot: Smelly Environment Can Increase Homophobic, Politically Conservative Views According To Study ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fbbi82 )

20:35:29 the_scourge: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/opinion/24pizarro.html

20:35:32 assbot: All Politics Is Olfactory - NYTimes.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbbhAK )

20:35:52 the_scourge: sorry for the sources, i was struggling with my history grepping and resorted to ddg

20:36:02 the_scourge: ascii_field: yes, i believe it's the same effect

20:36:11 ascii_field: what effect ?

20:37:23 mircea_popescu: lol the_scourge you ever heard of one McCune ?

20:38:05 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: don't ring a bell

20:38:46 ascii_field: i must confess - despite having read every word of mr mold's UR (and got my fair fill of the author in his previous life, and likewise played in his hindley-milner mathemasturbatorium until could take it no more) - i am still no closer to grasping the_scourge's arguments

20:39:01 mircea_popescu: unsurprisingly. sara miller mccune is a reputed con woman that came up with the following scam : make up fake "peer reviewed" scientific journals, then charge variouis idiots that were stpid enough to try and carve careers out of "social studies" a few hundred dollars to publish their goop

20:39:16 the_scourge: ascii_field: i thought perhaps your 'answer lies in the sewers' paper was talking about the olfactory conservative/liberal thing, but upon reading it, it seems like it's talking about something else... spanish nobility dumping their worker's bodies in the sewers? am i close?

20:39:26 mircea_popescu: then charge for the amassed pseudoscience to be repeated in drivelly sources like the huffpo.

20:39:36 ascii_field: the_scourge did not actually read a word of it

20:39:40 mircea_popescu: this works splendidly well, on a certain crowd, creating "consensuses" and "progresses" and whatnot.

20:39:41 ascii_field: we now know.

20:39:46 mircea_popescu: also doesn't happen to carry currency here.

20:40:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_field well... chuka.

20:40:40 ascii_field: the_scourge: you are making a loud public fool of yourself, unnecessarily. friendly warning.

20:41:39 TheNewDeal: Anyone interested in a bitbet repurchase?

20:41:49 mircea_popescu: how's that work ?

20:42:02 mike_c: TheNewDeal: what are you holding?

20:42:22 TheNewDeal: It works like so. Purchaser sends btc

20:42:36 TheNewDeal: I pay out after receiving payment from bitbet

20:42:38 the_scourge: ascii_field: duly taken. i'm just trying to connect McCune to the articles i linked

20:42:48 TheNewDeal: I give a small premium on timeweight

20:42:56 mike_c: yeah, so what are you selling?

20:42:57 mircea_popescu: and on trust ? and interest ?

20:43:09 TheNewDeal: No interest

20:43:12 TheNewDeal: Yes trust

20:43:31 TheNewDeal: Im holding no on https://bitbet.us/bet/1114/btc-to-rise-vs-usd-in-february/#b7

20:43:32 assbot: BitBet - BTC to rise vs USD in February :: 4.21 B (69%) on Yes, 1.89 B (31%) on No | closing in 2 weeks 6 days | weight: 90`871 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbdwUE )

20:43:47 *: mircea_popescu kinda interested to see this model developped, but the fact that txns have to take a time, and a risk premium on top of what's actually bneing sold seems insurmontable

20:43:59 mike_c: it's been done before

20:44:15 TheNewDeal: I did it before, check out my otp page

20:44:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00039193 = 2.4496 BTC [-]

20:44:39 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal but your holding is worth at the very most .189 BTC, and that if no has a 100% chance to win ?

20:44:58 TheNewDeal: 1.75

20:45:00 mircea_popescu: mike_c TheNewDeal no dispute it can be done and has done. just, impediments, friction, that sort of consideration

20:45:10 TheNewDeal: Ill sell up to .75

20:45:28 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal what i mean is, the value of buying 1 btc from you rather than betting 1 btc is given by the weight differential

20:45:45 mircea_popescu: as weigh is at 90k, even should you hold all the no you can't expect to make more than .189

20:46:16 TheNewDeal: To me it doesnt matter the exact amount I make

20:46:39 ascii_field: '(S//REL NATO) We assess that any unclassified NATO network that is directly connected to the Internet should be considered potentially compromised, creating uncertainty regarding the confidentiality, integrity and continued availability of all data on that network.' << mega-lol

20:46:43 TheNewDeal: I saw the bet, it looked unbalanced, and then i bet

20:47:03 TheNewDeal: Im not saying you shouldnt just bet no

20:47:14 TheNewDeal: But you could bet no, and buy no from me

20:48:29 TheNewDeal: Why do yoy say I can expect to make .189?

20:48:54 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: done some reading on sarah miller mccune, very interesting. is that somehow connected to http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095572

20:48:57 assbot: PLOS ONE: Disgust and the Politics of Sex: Exposure to a Disgusting Odorant Increases Politically Conservative Views on Sex and Decreases Support for Gay Marriage ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbeUXm )

20:49:30 mircea_popescu: if not in fact, in spirit.

20:49:40 TheNewDeal: The maximum i can make atm is 3.9

20:49:50 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: incidentally, the mccune thing is not in any way fundamentally different from the -rest- of mainstream academia

20:50:10 ascii_field: which is a pure rapefest from the standpoint of the phd coolies

20:50:20 mircea_popescu: ascii_field do they have classified networks directly connected is ther implication there ?!

20:50:35 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i just picked her name out of a bucket.

20:51:26 the_scourge: mircea_popescu: oh yah, i take every "finding" and "study" with a grain or shovelful of salt. so, well spoken

20:51:36 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal just trying to think through the valuations of this device. it's interesting.

20:51:43 TheNewDeal: Any who, if someone is interested or becomes more interested as time goes on, send me a gribble message

20:52:46 TheNewDeal: I usually just place a premium, like, 3% on the timeweight

20:53:35 TheNewDeal: So if purchaser paid me at 90k timeweight, I would payout at 90k*1.03

20:54:19 TheNewDeal: The specific premium and amount are what needs be negotiated

20:54:54 mircea_popescu: so basically the diff between betting and buying is 3% on one side, vs the risk premium on the other.

20:55:23 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> when you plug a lamp into a mains socket, is that also a 'streaming query' ? << For some kinds of lamp sure. << LAMP! geddit ? roflmao

20:56:18 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/05/this-is-the-wrong-way-to-do-the-internet-dont-worry-theres-also-a-right-way/

20:56:20 assbot: This is the wrong way to do the Internet. Don’t worry, there’s also a right way. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRaFVw )

20:57:02 TomServo: !up ascii_field

20:57:03 pete_dushenski: ^stab at wp, pump for qntra

20:57:11 pete_dushenski: not wordpress, washington post

20:57:13 ascii_field: ty TomServo

20:58:13 mircea_popescu: "When I was in Sicily, I couldn't even get a frickin' wifi login at the McDonalds without an Italian passport *and* a local registered sim. "

20:58:16 mircea_popescu: this has got to be a joke

20:58:42 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: sop in cn

20:58:47 TheNewDeal: Mp, The largest difference is someone else being able to purchase a larger percentage sstake in the pool I am in

20:59:18 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal the most advantageous implications of the whole idea that i see probably have to do with privacy.

20:59:39 TheNewDeal: oOo

20:59:45 TheNewDeal: I like that

20:59:55 bitstein: Bravo, pete_dushenski

20:59:57 mircea_popescu: it's a sort of ad hoc, informal sidechains for btc.

21:00:05 pete_dushenski: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2015/02/05/382664837/map-the-most-common-job-in-every-state << heh america is all truck drivers now

21:00:06 assbot: Map: The Most Common* Job In Every State : Planet Money : NPR ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRbIVq )

21:00:41 TomServo: Waterfall update: One step closer to drying up. Down to 5,038.29 from 10,295.86 on 28-01-2015.

21:00:44 pete_dushenski: bitstein: thx, sorta low-hanging fruit but hey

21:01:11 jurov: http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/Gallup-Daily-Workforce.aspx << not so many USians have a job anyway

21:01:14 assbot: Gallup Daily: U.S. Employment ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRc1jh )

21:01:43 mircea_popescu: job not needed. they're doing their part being part of the greatest derpocracy in history.

21:01:47 mircea_popescu: should be a salary in that.

21:01:56 pete_dushenski: redditnotes!

21:02:06 mircea_popescu: also.

21:03:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176850 @ 0.00039134 = 69.2085 BTC [-] {2}

21:04:31 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "breeching the Silk Road" < breaching.

21:04:39 mircea_popescu: you breech a gun, you breach a maiden.

21:05:07 pete_dushenski: in your breeches

21:05:48 BingoBoingo: fxd

21:06:07 mircea_popescu: "One particularly interesting tidbit is that when information about parallel construction in a case leaks, a special "Taint Review Team" must consult with a judge to determine which evidence must be turned over to the defense. The Taint Review team is also responsible for insulating prosecutors from evidence that would reveal the application of parallel construction methods in a case."

21:06:14 mircea_popescu: this also suggests how the problem is to be attacked.

21:06:34 mircea_popescu: make prosecutors personally liable for the use of fraudulently produced "proofs".

21:06:47 mircea_popescu: each da jailed for contempt & disbarred is a step forward.

21:06:57 ascii_field: lol, what's next, policeman liable for strafing crowds ?

21:06:58 mircea_popescu: i doubt the system couldsurvive a dozen total years of jailtime on this score.

21:07:17 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have with my own eyes seen men hang for that.

21:07:25 mircea_popescu: anything can come apart if correctly approached.

21:07:46 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: these folks show every sign of intending to keep it all up until glassed.

21:07:59 mircea_popescu: appearances deceive.

21:10:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.00039371 = 12.0672 BTC [+] {2}

21:12:21 mircea_popescu: besides, what "these folks" in the general wish and what individual folks actually managed when confronted with a bloody club are quite divorced matters.

21:15:01 jurov: "You were tipped 0.11 XPM for your commit on Project saltstack-formulas/epel-formula. Please, log in and tell us your primecoin address to get it."

21:15:03 jurov: O.o o.O loool

21:15:16 mircea_popescu: that's an approach

21:15:53 mircea_popescu: are these the folks that checked and then ignored signatures yest ?

21:16:04 jurov: yes

21:16:15 mircea_popescu: do you feel what, amused ? insulted ?

21:16:20 jurov: amused

21:16:23 ascii_field: jurov: now to discover the payload!

21:16:48 mircea_popescu: i wonder if it's per line.

21:16:51 jurov: https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/epel-formula/pull/16 << they quickly merged it

21:16:53 assbot: Force usage of verified gpg key by jurov · Pull Request #16 · saltstack-formulas/epel-formula · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRfC0E )

21:18:26 mircea_popescu: hm you did 22 lines right ?

21:18:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Everyone who wanted qntra to have a category page << remove the <li>, separate them by ; instead ? << Work in progress. Things in the categories will be getting some better sorting.

21:18:39 mircea_popescu: it's actually 0.005 per line.

21:19:01 jurov: guess qntra pays better

21:19:31 mircea_popescu: inb4 "this github commit is worth 1k btc on a qntra size arithmetic"

21:20:51 mircea_popescu: i dun believe the web is starved of anything nearly as badly as it's starved of usable value points of comparison. neatly mirrors how those kids are starved for exemplary leadership irl.

21:21:09 mircea_popescu: a sad fate for a race with such well recorded history.

21:21:12 ascii_field: redhat patch << i can't help but think that this is a 'wait, there was dioxin in my cyanide pill!111!' situation.

21:22:02 mircea_popescu: ascii_field "fixed sexist pronouns in manual for use of the alcohol swab employed pre-lethal injection"

21:22:18 ascii_field: aha

21:25:31 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/ScottMAustin/status/563444449226014722 << O.o

21:25:32 assbot: Likely why Twitter has been trying to get news out ahead of earnings: User growth was only 1.4%, the worst on record. /search?q=%24TWTR&src=ctag

21:25:41 mircea_popescu: "he problem isn't a limit in general but that 1MB is so low that under any meaningful adoption scenario it will push all individual users off the blockchain to rely on trusted third parties. In essence you will probably be priced out of the blockchain and the blockchain becomes yet another network you will never have direct (peer) access to, just like FedWire, SWIFT, and other private closed transfer networks. "

21:25:47 mircea_popescu: he forgot to add mpex in there.

21:29:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182100 @ 0.00039435 = 71.8111 BTC [+] {2}

21:38:41 mircea_popescu: anyway, writing a response to http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007935

21:38:41 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:30:52; phillipsjk: DeathAndTaxes on bitcoin talk made a detailed post explaining why the 1MB block size in not good for anything other than inter-bank transfers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0 He estimetes 2-4 TPS basked on the last million transactions

21:38:43 mircea_popescu: should be good.

21:39:20 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: if you or anyone else has any suggestions for sorting archive pages, it'd be sweet if contravex didn't only post one article at a time

21:39:53 pete_dushenski: i've tried a few angles without success thus far

21:44:25 jurov: http://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encryption-software-relies-on-one-guy-who-is-going-broke

21:44:26 assbot: The World’s Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who is Going Broke - ProPublica ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRl7wk )

21:45:28 pete_dushenski: twas in the logs

21:45:29 mircea_popescu: jurov actually was on log.

21:46:58 the_scourge: bears repeating :)

21:48:30 pete_dushenski: speaking of bears, i'm hungry as one. laters

21:57:16 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Search for "Clean My Archives" if you consider using it be sure to read it. There isn't much to it.

21:57:16 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:02:40 BingoBoingo: http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/

22:02:42 assbot: The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( http://bit.ly/16lJFMQ )

22:05:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.0003903 = 34.9319 BTC [-]

22:06:27 BingoBoingo: "Ms. Kim has one of the all-time great LinkedIn profiles: Harvard, Cornell, Columbia Law, the Innocence Project, Shearman & Sterling, two other law jobs, founder or CEO at two start-ups and now a venture capitalist."

22:07:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.0003903 = 1.1709 BTC [-]

22:08:19 BingoBoingo: "Ms. Kim?s next big idea was to drop hints to the world that Mr. McCaleb was Satoshi Nakamoto. According to one person who worked at Ripple Labs at the time, ?Joyce was creating all kinds of rumors that Jed was Satoshi and Jed was happy to go along with it, smiling like the cat that ate the canary."

22:17:21 mod6: has anyone else seen the "G0D" magic number?

22:17:31 mod6: tail -500000 blk0001.dat | xxd | grep "G0D" | wc -l

22:17:32 mod6: 159025

22:18:45 BingoBoingo: "This all culminated in a showdown meeting in which the board and key investors sided with Mr. Larsen. It was a 5-1 vote to keep Mr. Larsen as CEO with Mr. McCaleb himself being the lone dissenter. Even Mr. McCaleb?s ally, Mr. Powell, voted to retain Mr. Larsen, as did Roger Ver, another McCaleb friend in the room."

22:19:29 BingoBoingo: mod6: Wait, Was it a bible verse that doesn't want to verify?

22:21:16 BingoBoingo: "After the vote, as would prove to be his habit when faced with a situation not to his liking, Mr. McCaleb simply disappeared. He and Ms. Kim went to Costa Rica to surf, then to Brazil. Even close friends at Ripple Labs had no idea where their mercurial founder was for months at a time."

22:21:32 mod6: na, just saw a bunch of those in there when looking through the hex of blk0001.dat, i think it's an OP_ script of some type maybe

22:21:57 BingoBoingo: Ah

22:23:59 BingoBoingo: "Meanwhile, Mr. McCaleb and Ms. Burzlaff negotiated a settlement for their children?s support, but his behavior toward his kids mirrored his departure from Ripple and, to some degree, every company he incubated. He fled the scene when things went south at eDonkey. At Mt. Gox, he actually claimed the company no longer had any of his coding DNA, even though he still owned 12 percent of the company and advised on an attempt to acqu

22:23:59 BingoBoingo: ire its assets."

22:29:51 the_scourge: i'm undecided as to wether such scams demonstrate a concerted smear attempt or are simply exposing the nasty nature of our 'corportate' culture

22:30:03 BingoBoingo: "Ms. Kim has an impressively broad resume, but it is not especially deep. Ms. Kim appears on Stellar legal documents and itswebsite as ?secretary,? ?executive director? and ?member? (under its bylaws). Whatever her talents, they do not include leadership. Her legacy at SimpleHoney was a pair of false-start products, punctuated by a blog post titled ?How to Build a Startup from a Beach.?"

22:30:36 BingoBoingo: the_scourge: It is the plague of people having no concept of history pretending they can haz bzns

22:31:18 the_scourge: the internet is sirz bitnit

22:33:11 the_scourge: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/133/593/innanep.jpg

22:33:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkzQ1f )

22:36:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.0003903 = 5.6008 BTC [-]

22:37:58 BingoBoingo: "This circular process pinned an initial value on STRs. Stellar repaid the $3 million loan with 2 billion STRs. Based on the finite distribution of 100 billion STRs, the transaction implied the currency?s market cap was $150 million. (Its current market cap is about $17 million.)"

22:41:46 BingoBoingo: "Charlie Shrem, the Bitcoiner who is headed to prison and is very close to Mr. McCaleb and Mr. Karpeles and has done business with them, shared his suspicion that the Mt. Gox money actually disappeared much earlier than had been revealed: ?I think he lost those coins early on. Like many years ago in the first hack.?"

22:43:35 ben_vulpes: the_scourge: shit doesn't even really count compared to actual impressive public market scamming like VGMC

22:47:47 danielpbarron: height=187521

22:48:25 mod6: lel: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44887.msg537071#msg537071

22:48:26 assbot: Bit-error in Block 108009, Tx 23 ? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkE0Gn )

22:48:53 the_scourge: ben_vulpes: wow that is some seriously seedy shit.... surely they didn't get anyone's money?

22:51:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136800 @ 0.0003903 = 53.393 BTC [-]

22:56:49 ben_vulpes: the_scourge: you really have to ask?

22:57:29 the_scourge: idk human stupidity surprises me to this day and probably will do well into the future

23:17:11 ben_vulpes: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-boy-suspended-bringing-ring-power-school-article-1.2099103

23:17:13 assbot: Texas boy suspended after bringing 'ring of power' to school - NY Daily News ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkLngO )

23:18:03 mircea_popescu: !up kanzure

23:18:04 mircea_popescu: hey there.

23:21:17 danielpbarron: ok so apparently the openssl make install was getting stuck on making documentation (apparently a known bug for the version ascii chose) and the fix is to use "make install_sw" instead of "make install"

23:23:55 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell phillipsjk http://fraudsters.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/

23:23:55 assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkN264 )

23:23:55 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:30:22 trinque: ben_vulpes: everyone in texas has borderline personality disorder

23:32:14 jurov: border personality?

23:32:37 BingoBoingo: !b 2

23:32:37 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0XSXRHH.txt )

23:34:04 mircea_popescu: lol

23:34:20 trinque: jurov: haaaaw

23:34:56 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/2333/

23:35:08 cazalla: oops, forgot title

23:35:44 cazalla: the one time scoopbot fetches an article within seconds..

23:35:52 ben_vulpes: haw

23:36:10 mircea_popescu: lawk

23:37:34 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/bitcoin-atm-operators-remove-machines-in-singapore/

23:37:35 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/muckrock-dea-documents-show-parallel-construction-widely-used/

23:40:34 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron wow nice find

23:40:51 ben_vulpes: srs

23:40:56 ben_vulpes: qntra's turning into quite the source these days

23:42:26 mircea_popescu: mhm!

23:43:02 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/

23:51:15 mircea_popescu: "The one great example is IBM, which faced disruption and existential threat from PCs in the early 1990s and emerged stronger and is still a thriving company. "

23:51:26 mircea_popescu: who the fuck is this bernardlunn.com imbecile.

23:52:55 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the last million transactions are probably by volume idiocy spawned by wallets that inhibit address reuse << at least half.

23:55:13 mircea_popescu: phillipsjk: Not even my 2 year electronic program or running a node for a year? <<< jesus god he's adorable. totally pwned ben_vulpes too, because the joo's a lazy reader. meanwhile in the linked cv ? "Objective. To find a day or night job in the Edmonton area."

23:55:24 mircea_popescu: !rated phillipsjk

23:55:24 assbot: You have not rated phillipsjk.

23:55:36 mircea_popescu: !rate phillipsjk 1 His simplicity is endearing.

23:55:36 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/87ab615b672803ae

23:56:00 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phillipsjk.1:4fc7cc9d4122a9dc2f24d42a0cec09a573a66f334b6631c311ab16c1b7bd82d4

23:56:00 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for phillipsjk with note: His simplicity is endearing.