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Transcript for 05-03-2016, 1116 lines:

00:05:12 danielpbarron: first!

00:20:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055735 = 11.3142 BTC [-] {2}

00:49:42 danielpbarron: this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner! I got a finished article in the hopper, and a stub still to be fleshed out.

00:50:34 danielpbarron: started with the impulse to post something on twatter, pasted it into a draft instead, and expanded from there.

00:52:44 shinohai: I am trying your drink recipe tonight danielpbarron I think I got everything I needed.

00:54:16 danielpbarron: neato

00:57:13 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner! << HA!

00:57:13 shinohai: I was at the liquor store and was like "Hey danielpbarron made a blog post about some drink today, lemme try that!"

01:05:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00055723 = 10.0859 BTC [-] {3}

01:34:53 shinohai: Disney, mircea_popescu style: http://i.4cdn.org/b/1457141383727.png

01:34:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1oWMYUD )

01:45:38 adlai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/97d7825e-3517-4ac0-b378-1d887d50b4d2/?raw=true

01:45:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1oWO8zf )

01:45:40 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:48:05 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422228 << they were using incompatible versions on the same network... what can be expected

01:48:05 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 23:08:49; shinohai: https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/segwit-forked-unexpectedly-on-testnet-t6111.html <<< top kek

01:48:44 shinohai: Yeah upon further investigation I decided it was a non-event.

01:50:24 adlai: the "double spend" is quite a oui-event, even if it was caused by pessimal interaction with eg sturles's node

01:59:22 shinohai: This shit is fucking delicious danielpbarron

02:00:04 shinohai: I am guaranteed kinky sex tonight when gf gets here and tastes it.

02:02:52 adlai: danielpbarron: congratulations on getting the round tuit!

02:16:06 danielpbarron: ty ty

02:17:45 *: danielpbarron is now trying his first attempt at a sort-of cantarina (sort-of because apparently it's supposed to have club soda, although I'm not sure if that's a requirement, or if a side-effect of most bars not having fresh grapefruit and use a grapefruit flavored soda instead)

02:18:38 danielpbarron: and to my surprise the quarter orange i decided to go with is not overpowered by the whole grapefruit or the half lime/lemon

02:19:51 danielpbarron: heh, also tonight i learned that you do not want to squeeze a kiwi, but I have not yet ruled out muddling

02:25:43 shinohai: lol

02:26:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00055706 = 17.6031 BTC [-] {3}

02:44:16 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu broadcast sent !

02:44:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:45:25 asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69&cpage=1#comment-17594

02:45:26 assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qx0oB9 )

02:45:34 asciilifeform: what a high-ranking reich officer!

02:45:43 asciilifeform: visits my obscure corner of the world.

02:45:54 asciilifeform: supposing that it was him (the man doesn't pgp.)

02:47:35 danielpbarron: contradiction! only men pgp

02:49:30 adlai: fallacy! lack of female pgp speakers does not imply absence of male imbeciles

02:49:50 asciilifeform: adlai: hey they aren't all extinct! there is still hanbot and diana_coman

02:50:24 adlai: fallacies are usable on false axioms, too

02:53:23 asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo megatonne of crapple trial crapolade on cryptome, if you still care

02:53:23 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:08:46 mircea_popescu: there's plenty of women using pgp.

03:09:11 mircea_popescu: and who the fuck is peter norvig anyway ?

03:09:21 asciilifeform: google cto.

03:09:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00055921 = 2.852 BTC [+] {2}

03:09:40 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, and bullshit textbook on ai that leads nowhere.

03:09:46 asciilifeform: and author of a really great schoolbook circa 1991, and a terrifyingly abysmal one in 1997.

03:09:57 mircea_popescu: here's a hint : google search quality peaked in 2001

03:10:11 asciilifeform: feedstock quality peaked in '93.

03:13:10 mircea_popescu: anyway, "we own him now" "heh" "and this is why we bought usernet archive, too" "get lost" "why won't you think we're cool!" "because you're old, and lame, and smell bad"

03:13:41 asciilifeform: somethinglikethat.

03:13:51 asciilifeform: and herr norvig, if indeed it is him, is on a comcast line.

03:13:59 asciilifeform: (as was cia director!)

03:14:01 asciilifeform: go figure.

03:14:08 asciilifeform: i'd demand at least a t3 in his place.

03:14:14 asciilifeform: srsly, wtf.

03:15:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25866 @ 0.00055584 = 14.3774 BTC [-] {4}

03:15:46 mircea_popescu: i don't think you understand how the world works.

03:15:51 mircea_popescu: and - more importantly - why.

03:16:04 asciilifeform: evidently.

03:16:32 asciilifeform: but sure, i get it, molotov didn't even get to demand that his wife be let go from gulag.

03:16:34 asciilifeform: much less t3.

03:17:01 mircea_popescu: this is important. not for the "good of the people", as it is broadly misdirected - but for the continued delusion of the imbeciles in question.

03:17:14 mircea_popescu: by NOT getting t3, norvig thinks EVEN MORE of the imbecile system he's plugged into.

03:17:23 asciilifeform: now i'm lost.

03:17:25 asciilifeform: how does this work.

03:17:29 mircea_popescu: because he is, fundamentally, a woman, of that miserable, medieval kind. you gotta beat her.

03:17:44 asciilifeform: isn't being a bureaucrat, beating enough ?

03:17:47 mircea_popescu: creo quia absurdum est and all that crap.

03:17:55 mircea_popescu: mno. people get used to it.

03:18:17 mircea_popescu: why ~the fuck~ do you suppose the koreans gotta do ever more inane absurd shit ? isn't being a korean bad enough ?

03:18:22 asciilifeform: they also get used to 'comcast.'

03:18:22 mircea_popescu: no, it never lasts.

03:18:34 mircea_popescu: which is why they'll get moved to dormitories in due time.

03:18:47 mircea_popescu: and then chair seats will be replaced with dildoes.

03:18:58 mircea_popescu: this is why they gotta fucking come up with a "cultural war" about sitting in the fucking bus.

03:19:25 asciilifeform: which, as far as i can tell, does not yet protrude into meatspace in a way visible to naked eye

03:19:26 asciilifeform: yet.

03:19:43 mircea_popescu: you just saw it with naked eye ?

03:19:53 asciilifeform: possibly.

03:20:11 mircea_popescu: norvig can, on the basis of his achievements such as they are, live a life his father would have thought good enough for a blue colar laborer.

03:20:16 mircea_popescu: this, not protrude ?

03:20:17 asciilifeform: but for all i know, this norvig is a joker and the real norvig is with his harem.

03:20:30 mircea_popescu: sure.

03:20:38 mircea_popescu: because obama has a harem, right ?

03:21:09 asciilifeform: l0l, lacking an intel dept., i can't be entirely certain that he does not.

03:21:16 asciilifeform: but will take mircea_popescu's word.

03:21:31 mircea_popescu: a HAREM. not a bevy of women to fuck. a harem.

03:21:54 mircea_popescu: it is an institution. it is when a man is invited to seat at a table, and he explains that "you will have to seat five women, because i am not married - i am haremed."

03:21:55 asciilifeform: then sure.

03:22:28 asciilifeform: fair'nuff.

03:22:30 mircea_popescu: it is when a man ridicules the nuttery of singles marriage, openly, and doesn't entertain it, openly. it's some luxuries no us president ever had.

03:22:32 mircea_popescu: because poverty.

03:23:14 asciilifeform: kennedy prolly could've, if he weren't stuck caesaropapisming in a weird religion.

03:23:29 mircea_popescu: but he DIDNT. he pretended that mudsickle of jackie is an actual woman.

03:23:40 asciilifeform: aha.

03:23:53 mircea_popescu: did he say, on tv, "bitch you either eat out marylin or ima flay you alive and hang your disgusting carcass by the south gate" ?

03:26:20 asciilifeform: obligatory:

03:26:21 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JduR-9sHk8w

03:26:22 assbot: Mayor McCheese Gets Assassinated - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1YdpiHN )

03:26:59 asciilifeform: http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15900000/Mayor-McCheese-Assassination-family-guy-15951987-505-304.jpg << for those without video

03:27:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ydpozf )

03:27:18 asciilifeform: for n00bz: reference to jackie having actually picked up pieces of jfk's brain and tried to stuff back in!

03:28:03 mircea_popescu: well... that i can see.

03:29:58 mircea_popescu: dude the junk on your blog's unreadable. /me made the mistake to try to wade through comments.

03:30:08 asciilifeform: ahahahaha

03:30:13 mircea_popescu: i recall trying this once before, yars ago, and not being quite as oripilated.

03:30:19 asciilifeform: it was always.

03:30:21 mircea_popescu: i think b-a is ruining me for interidiotnet.

03:30:29 asciilifeform: where, precisely, are the non-junk comments to come from ?

03:30:56 mircea_popescu: pff, check it out, english spells it with h ? horripilated ? tsk.

03:31:36 mircea_popescu: (ancient latin word - horror-haired)

04:32:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26840 @ 0.00055642 = 14.9343 BTC [+] {3}

06:06:03 deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] In which a couple of car guys discuss computers. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/05/in-which-a-couple-of-car-guys-discuss-computers/

06:53:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00055543 = 11.4974 BTC [-] {3}

07:14:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26066 @ 0.00055461 = 14.4565 BTC [-] {3}

07:36:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5059 @ 0.00055484 = 2.8069 BTC [-]

08:07:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16174 @ 0.00055567 = 8.9874 BTC [+]

08:29:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00055484 = 1.5813 BTC [-]

08:32:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00055567 = 7.0292 BTC [+]

08:45:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00055484 = 13.9265 BTC [-]

09:02:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00055443 = 15.8567 BTC [-] {5}

09:09:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00055421 = 13.4673 BTC [-] {2}

09:21:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00055566 = 1.3614 BTC [+] {2}

09:22:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9616 @ 0.00055421 = 5.3293 BTC [-]

09:33:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00055421 = 5.6529 BTC [-]

09:41:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00055567 = 15.2254 BTC [+]

10:34:14 jurov: asciilifeform: nice. maybe put the gpg horrors on qntra or loperos?

11:51:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00055488 = 4.3836 BTC [-]

12:25:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00055488 = 10.4872 BTC [-]

13:11:33 mircea_popescu: not a bad idea.

13:16:15 mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-05.log.html#t05:02:16 << in other news, eulora has progressed to feudalism, has actual redditor serfs and everything.

13:16:16 assbot: #Eulora log for Saturday, 2016-03-05 ... ( http://bit.ly/1prsjZ9 )

13:16:35 mircea_popescu: the rumour goes countess diana_coman bathory bathes in virgins' blood to maintain her youth etc.

13:32:35 diana_coman: bwahahaha AND I teach him ...percentages!

13:32:37 diana_coman: of all things

13:35:10 mircea_popescu: :)

13:35:20 mircea_popescu: algebra ii ? how unpatriotic!

13:48:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15592 @ 0.00055492 = 8.6523 BTC [+] {3}

13:50:16 shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo I couldn't come up with a lulzy enough filler for that story so gonna pass it on to whoever wants it.

13:50:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:52:43 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/492b8r/bitcoin_bounty_offered_of_14_bitcoins/ " I sent them a text calling them a Pig Fucker"

13:52:44 assbot: Bitcoin Bounty Offered of 14 Bitcoins : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1X1Yw41 )

13:59:17 mircea_popescu: shinohai plox to offer short intro for redditard/other tard links. i ended up looking at that only to see that, typical for the mob, it's not any sort of bounty, but a conditional offer predicated on the impossible.

13:59:35 mircea_popescu: "I am offering a 14 Bitcoin Bounty leading to the arrest, conviction, AND return of my 28 Bitcoins that were stolen from me." << fancy that idiocy.

14:00:01 shinohai: Sounds like one of Roger Ver's "Bounties"

14:00:32 mircea_popescu: "i think i'm mp to offer bounties. what, i should have money ?"

14:00:47 mircea_popescu: then the same fucking idiots come by to "comment" on shit i do. as if we're all people now or something, in the same sense.

14:01:23 shinohai: I'll be damned if I help someone that stores 28 Bitcoin in an online wallet

14:01:40 shinohai: Even if I had a magical way to recover said BTC

14:03:11 asciilifeform: betcha some miraculously not-yet-dekulakized 'earlyadopt' scum - keeps 1000s in a gox.

14:03:23 punkman: if anyone's selling 100eur notes for 50eur, I'll buy all of them

14:03:51 punkman: maybe I should post a reddit bounty

14:04:05 mircea_popescu: ^

14:04:17 asciilifeform: (imho every tardwallet thing oughta be called a gox)

14:04:23 mircea_popescu: then they wonder why people think they're idiots.

14:04:49 shinohai: But this guy wants his Bitcoins arrested and convicted the way the sentence reads.

14:07:32 mircea_popescu: i'm offering 14 btc for the arrest and conviction of this particular redditard by isis

14:07:36 mircea_popescu: payable upon beheading.

14:07:41 mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck.

14:09:33 *: asciilifeform still waiting for pubkey written in piles of known heads on camera

14:09:59 asciilifeform: or dictated by gurgling famous captives

14:10:06 asciilifeform: on stakes

14:13:06 mircea_popescu: as if washington has a key.

14:13:14 mircea_popescu: fuck them, fiat states, who cares. "legal process" or w/e.

14:15:44 asciilifeform: washington has no key, but a snitch can walk into any of 1,000,001 gestapo ratholes and chat.

14:16:10 mircea_popescu: so ?

14:16:37 mircea_popescu: obama joining from obama@whitehouse.org is in no better position than random derp joining from anon@isis.ir

14:16:44 asciilifeform: and washington doesn't pgpsign, but somehow it is always very easy to distinguish its spew from all other.

14:17:35 mircea_popescu: only detrimentally.

14:18:05 mircea_popescu: just like should we look for places to poison mice, we'll go by the holes ; but should we look for a hero mice to reward with a wheel of cheese - we won't notice the holes.

14:20:19 asciilifeform: no shit

14:20:38 asciilifeform: but are there such things as heroic mice.

14:21:13 asciilifeform: and if there are, they have own keys.

14:24:45 mircea_popescu: aha

14:31:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00055488 = 11.1531 BTC [-]

14:42:48 jurov: https://medium.com/@barmstrong/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-roundtable-6c11a10d8cdf#.bgn65l10p

14:42:49 assbot: What Happened At The Satoshi Roundtable — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsDGsQ )

14:43:01 jurov: "Bitcoin Classic is ready and being run in production today by a number of bitcoin companies. Bitcoin Core has produced no such option that is production ready, and seems committed to putting out sub-optimal solutions that I described above."

14:43:11 jurov: bezzle-ready!

14:43:25 mircea_popescu: pfff.

14:43:48 mircea_popescu: jurov feel free to fuzz, crashing it every which way will make a somewhat lulzy qntra piece

14:43:54 mircea_popescu: or mats or anyone else so inclined.

14:44:08 mircea_popescu: rather low hanging fruit, that sort of inept claim. classic is about as production ready as windows 7.

14:44:50 asciilifeform: i thought 'classic' was just normal prb but with 2mb constant.

14:45:19 mircea_popescu: eh they have nfi what they're doing. classic is essentially a social media campaign.

14:45:32 mircea_popescu: by idea guys for idea guys.

14:45:42 mircea_popescu: totally ready for "running in production" by other idea guys.

14:46:28 asciilifeform: how hard to twiddle a knob.

14:46:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13490 @ 0.00055567 = 7.496 BTC [+]

14:46:58 asciilifeform: or, what, there is other nonsense in there, not only phatblox?

14:47:34 asciilifeform: 'scorpions were not enough, also needs rusty nails'

14:48:03 kakobrekla: ;;ticker

14:48:05 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 394.26, Best ask: 394.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 394.25, 24 hour volume: 38813.97070032, 24 hour low: 391.5, 24 hour high: 421.7, 24 hour vwap: None

14:48:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00055567 = 11.1134 BTC [+]

14:51:11 mircea_popescu: ^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly.

14:51:37 mircea_popescu: bitcoin as it currently stands is a very iffy proposition. it ~absolutely~ requires the bricking of current miners to have a chance, and major protocol rewrites.

14:53:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you divest, what'll you nuke it with?

14:53:19 mircea_popescu: slownuke.

14:53:25 mircea_popescu: let the fucktards meet the halving on halved prices.

14:53:50 mircea_popescu: oh herp derp we are miners and making conferences ? fucking death warrant you've signed there boys.

14:55:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5993 @ 0.00055486 = 3.3253 BTC [-] {2}

14:55:23 asciilifeform: who ever heard of a slow nuke. dontcha want the panic stampede?

14:55:30 mircea_popescu: nope.

14:56:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16927 @ 0.00055404 = 9.3782 BTC [-] {4}

14:56:19 asciilifeform: but this way the idiots can carry on thinking 'it just happened because the winds blew'

14:56:30 mircea_popescu: and you see a problem with this ?

14:57:25 asciilifeform: aha, when you kill a derp, you do it on the public stake, not by dropping a snowstorm on him, no?

14:57:44 mircea_popescu: except i couldn't care less about the derps. what, you think they're people or something ?

14:58:19 asciilifeform: they're this thing that watches the public stake and follows power?

14:58:32 asciilifeform: or do i catastrophically misunderstand.

14:58:46 mircea_popescu: well, if they had been following power they'd be sending their irs receipts to me rather than obama.

14:59:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3637 @ 0.00055377 = 2.0141 BTC [-]

14:59:10 mircea_popescu: mno, they don't watch anything, just keep humming this tune in their head. which is perfectly fine and utterly uninteresting.

15:00:23 asciilifeform: and just last night mircea_popescu was reminding me of e folly of throwing away old razor for incomplete lisp razor

15:00:45 asciilifeform: if bitcoin is yielded to usg, with what is new one to be built?

15:00:55 mircea_popescu: eh, usg isn't even a player.

15:01:35 asciilifeform: with what is the forkwar to be fought?

15:01:35 mircea_popescu: some idiot somewhere last year looked at whatever the fuck they look at and came to the conclusion that "we'll win this one apple - style, vc and software plox!"

15:01:36 mircea_popescu: idjits.

15:02:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by the looks of it, roughly around july there will be an open competition of ~myriad forks on the market.

15:02:13 mircea_popescu: ideally trb will at that time be ready to propose one of its own.

15:02:18 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell asciilifeform about crapple trial see http://qntra.net/2016/02/fbi-iphone-circle-jerk-theater/ for my perspective. *Interesting* other perspectives welcome.

15:02:19 assbot: FBI iPhone Circle Jerk Theater | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsG7LR )

15:02:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:03:36 mircea_popescu: ;;google site:fraudsters.com consumers revolt

15:03:37 gribble: B,TMSR~ and fundamental justice reform. on fraudsters - A blog by ...: http://fraudsters.com/2015/btmsr-and-fundamental-justice-reform/; Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility - Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/

15:03:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so babelocalypse?

15:03:50 mircea_popescu: 2nd one. not exactly news, this, is it ? was on the books for 3 years.

15:04:25 mircea_popescu: i even got the timing almost right. half month precision over 3 years in bitcoin is pretty impressive.

15:05:02 mircea_popescu: it is just about absolutely clear for me that bitcoin, just like any other technology to date, brings about absolutely no betterment for the common man.

15:05:23 mircea_popescu: strictly because the common man is an unrepentant imbecile proud of his imbecility, but that's a secondary consideration.

15:06:10 asciilifeform: so in what sense would it be worth anyone's time to work on satoshi's turd

15:06:39 mircea_popescu: in what sense is it worth anyone's time to do anything ?

15:07:13 asciilifeform: in the sense where the great satan is the common enemy of all thinking people?

15:07:19 mircea_popescu: aite then.

15:09:12 asciilifeform: gonna be interesting to see btc at fiddycents, kakobrekla , jurov, will get day jobs?

15:09:38 asciilifeform: who is to make wunderwaffen then.

15:09:46 kakobrekla: its barrel time!

15:09:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, by himself?

15:10:06 mircea_popescu: i thought you didn't have any, didn't care to have any and didn't etc ?

15:10:09 asciilifeform: or me, with my toes

15:10:12 jurov: lol yea, day job almost happened last year

15:10:28 asciilifeform: well that's why i didn't mention me

15:10:35 asciilifeform: i came pre-fucked

15:10:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, no fiddy cents. coupla hundy should be enough. miners can't actually support their shit even at current prices, if it halves.

15:11:16 asciilifeform: it'll be cents once gavn phorks and mircea_popescu has no nuke.

15:11:27 mircea_popescu: everyone forks.

15:12:16 mircea_popescu: and honestly, what the everloving fuck do i care. bitcoin with mining cartel is literally, and i do mean LITERALLY just a very slow, unreliable and expensive visa run by idiots.

15:12:27 asciilifeform: the value pumped into the old btc will go to hitler.

15:12:28 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> jurov feel free to fuzz, crashing it every which way will make a somewhat lulzy qntra piece << Jurov takes are always welcome

15:12:48 *: BingoBoingo also doesn't recall seeing a mats piece yet

15:12:57 mircea_popescu: technically the value pumped into the old btc all comes from hitler anyway. what, ustard has money now ?

15:13:36 mircea_popescu: the intellectual value of the work trying to get it to work goes to that great place in the sky where everyone's work ever goes, gauss, newton, who have you.

15:13:38 *: asciilifeform has nfi.

15:14:11 asciilifeform: so trb foundation closes today?

15:14:36 mircea_popescu: it does ?

15:14:47 asciilifeform: well this is implied?

15:14:52 mircea_popescu: how ?

15:15:24 mircea_popescu: i suppose IF the july many-fork time comes and trb has nothing to offer then it might as well close.

15:15:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422471 + http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422529 ?

15:15:56 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 14:51:11; mircea_popescu: ^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly.

15:15:56 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 15:13:36; mircea_popescu: the intellectual value of the work trying to get it to work goes to that great place in the sky where everyone's work ever goes, gauss, newton, who have you.

15:16:27 asciilifeform: and there is no way in hell that adacoin by july, unless mircea_popescu writes it himself...

15:17:00 mircea_popescu: well, not like it HAS to close. it can also continue doing what it did for the ~first half year of its existence, which is to say critique whatever prb

15:17:20 asciilifeform: i would like to be wrong about this. but i see no parachute.

15:17:27 mircea_popescu: that was not yet called either prb or core or anything, because before we came and crackd the nut, inanities avbout how "only one bitcoin software" still had currency amongthe ruminant herd.

15:18:03 asciilifeform: critique 1,000,001 blooming flowers of idiocy?

15:18:09 mircea_popescu: yeao

15:18:12 mircea_popescu: p*

15:19:45 asciilifeform: they have infinite hitpoint. as mircea_popescu taught us.

15:19:57 mircea_popescu: quite.

15:19:59 asciilifeform: what'd be the point?

15:20:22 BingoBoingo: Outlasting? Isn't that the point of every cult?

15:20:23 mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu> in what sense is it worth anyone's time to do anything ?

15:20:48 asciilifeform: to kill hitler.

15:20:59 mircea_popescu: outlasting is, as far as one can discern, the implicit goal of life on earth.

15:21:06 mircea_popescu: cult or no cult, culture or no culture.

15:22:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, to the more general point : all our understanding as to how bitcoin should work, see for instance yest discussion, comes from dissecting how prototype-bitcoin did in fact work.

15:22:37 mircea_popescu: as much as we'd love to suck our own cocks, while we readily agree TODAY that "should be so and so", we'd have had no such agreement a decade ago.

15:23:02 mircea_popescu: no work done on satoshi codebase has yet been wasted, except that done for other people than us, or outside of b-a.

15:23:48 asciilifeform: bitcoin was really 2 things

15:23:58 asciilifeform: 1) this prototype.

15:24:26 asciilifeform: 2) a desperate wartime wunderwaffen that allowed for some temporary sanity

15:24:41 asciilifeform: e.g., kakobrekla without dayjob

15:24:46 mircea_popescu: well, yeah, but that 2 sunk meanwhile.

15:25:00 asciilifeform: and other folks at least working towards kakoization.

15:26:40 mircea_popescu: anyway, relax, you got plenty of time.

15:27:17 asciilifeform: time to do what ?

15:27:26 asciilifeform: buy coin at 400 so i can pay rent with it at 0.50 ?

15:27:27 mircea_popescu: what do you think this is, some sort of cult ?

15:27:34 mircea_popescu: we don't answer that kinda q for you.

15:29:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, what you're missing, perhaps on account of age, is that... well... i recall hanging out with kakobrekla back when bitcoin was 2 dollars.

15:29:37 mircea_popescu: didn't seem to make so much difference.

15:30:07 mircea_popescu: actually - much fewer idiots then, of the purely idiotarian type. of course all sorts of actual idiots seemed quite reasonable, pleasant folk, but what can you do.

15:30:42 asciilifeform: fewer still in '93.

15:30:44 mircea_popescu: (and yes, it was 2 dollars +-10% for a straight year)

15:31:00 asciilifeform: the issue is not that walking the earth sux. the issue is splat from an airplane.

15:31:18 mircea_popescu: myeah.

15:31:29 asciilifeform: but at any rate, it isn't my toy, the owners can break it if they want.

15:31:50 mircea_popescu: free market will provide right ?

15:31:58 asciilifeform: but i for one don't see anyone winning from this but usg.

15:32:04 mircea_popescu: kinda what i was going to say next, "don't worry too much, things have a way of sorting themselves out"

15:32:19 mircea_popescu: eh, costco is a more likely winner than usg.

15:32:23 mircea_popescu: a more significant player, also.

15:32:26 asciilifeform: and costco is something other than usg ?

15:32:33 asciilifeform: all tentacles of fiat are the same animal.

15:32:35 mircea_popescu: fine, fine, asda.

15:32:46 mircea_popescu: ok, ok, prince ibrahim the unknown al saud.

15:32:50 mircea_popescu: still ?

15:32:53 asciilifeform: still.

15:32:55 asciilifeform: absolutely.

15:33:04 mircea_popescu: the problem here might be psychogenic.

15:33:11 asciilifeform: all confiscatable money is the same.

15:33:29 mircea_popescu: lol yeeeeah, that worked really well with the embargo and all lol. anyway.

15:33:46 mircea_popescu: rajit imberdejit, a 2nd vice-governor of uttar pradesh

15:34:02 asciilifeform: if u.s. dept of state can take his goats, he is the same as costco.

15:34:18 asciilifeform: ditto if moscow can.

15:34:18 mircea_popescu: us dept of state can do ~ nothing, but direct the dod to lose some more items .

15:43:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe you are stuck between a rock and a need for vacation?

15:43:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14346 @ 0.00055734 = 7.9956 BTC [+] {4}

15:44:15 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i will have vacation when i'm dead.

15:44:18 asciilifeform: can't afford it.

15:44:35 deedbot-: [Qntra] Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% - http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/

15:45:19 BingoBoingo: I mean the vacation that lets you afford other vacations. You know the one where you sit in a cabin to make trb fork. Not full adacoin, but the possibility of adacoin.

15:45:21 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/33D5WNW.txt

15:45:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ru9cV2 )

15:45:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:45:42 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless it pays immediately, i can't afford it.

15:45:49 asciilifeform: i am not mircea_popescu, and have no wiggle room.

15:50:54 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0V66S68.txt < asciilifeform

15:50:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ru9yuC )

15:51:29 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai Fine. I'll show you how to juice that headline with a story in under 100 words, just to intoduce a target.

15:51:30 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:51:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i agree. but it means a very tight belt.

16:00:50 mircea_popescu: deedbot-> [Qntra] Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% <<< curious if the drops till july will add up to 50% or not.

16:00:58 mircea_popescu: seems somewhat likely

16:19:23 BingoBoingo: In other news looks like OpenBSD Vax is ending at 5.9 as Vax hardware reaches end of operating afterlife.

16:29:50 deedbot-: [fraudsters] No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/

16:32:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47861

16:32:41 assbot: Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2gQd2 )

16:33:23 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47862

16:33:24 assbot: Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2gSSs )

16:34:57 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/#comment-47863

16:34:58 assbot: Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1X2h3wQ )

16:35:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox fix 'subsidize'

16:35:26 asciilifeform: ty

16:36:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422613 << iirc there is an acceptably good emulator, but this would sorta defeat the purpose

16:36:07 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 16:19:23; BingoBoingo: In other news looks like OpenBSD Vax is ending at 5.9 as Vax hardware reaches end of operating afterlife.

16:36:16 BingoBoingo: yes

16:36:44 BingoBoingo: I'll dig up the archive of the theo mail but he sent it today if anyone else wants to dig first

16:37:11 BingoBoingo: fxd

16:39:28 deedbot-: [Qntra] Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" - http://qntra.net/2016/03/frontier-county-prosecutor-alleges-circle-jerk-iphone-carries-cyber-pathogens/

16:39:29 BingoBoingo: ^ shinohai see above, maybe get a blog to practice the writing thing on not-news so that you may better news.

16:42:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: incidentally, nowhere in volkischer beobachter will you find mention of the 100s of folks who mailed in offers to usg to root the pnohe with the very simple nand flash removal method.

16:42:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: See https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=145715162325192&w=2 and following message in thread

16:42:12 asciilifeform: (because the case is not about any of this idiocy, but something else)

16:42:23 BingoBoingo: yes

16:42:34 BingoBoingo: because Hegelian social engineering

16:42:47 BingoBoingo: outcome doesn't matter, but conversation in the media is everything

16:43:01 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.27408011 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b127

16:45:21 BingoBoingo: lulz from mircea_popescu's qntra adventure in Argentina https://archive.is/oSlsr

16:45:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1U1LkwH )

16:46:07 mircea_popescu: awww, argentards dun like to hear ?

16:46:14 mircea_popescu: so surprise much wow.

16:46:40 mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, does retard-argentina have more retards than retard-buttcoin ?

16:46:46 BingoBoingo: I'm honestly pleased that the spanish used it so simple as to be easily and painlessly read without translating thinking

16:53:15 asciilifeform: !up Sheepola

16:59:21 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: i'm half tempted to temporarily lower my iq with drugs just to understand "them" better...

16:59:34 thestringpuller: i guess this is where the phrase, "Can I get what you're somking" comes from

16:59:46 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: they don't make dope this strong, you will need head+brickwall

17:00:41 thestringpuller: sounds like a temporary solutions with long term health side effects

17:02:26 BingoBoingo: Increase velocity and it can be permanent

17:05:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/225HX7Q.txt << lulz from btc-e crudbox. apparently they make filipinos in ru.

17:05:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/21QyX9m )

17:06:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00055377 = 9.1649 BTC [-] {2}

17:07:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Didn't SU have it's own philipino style satellite?

17:07:17 asciilifeform: wut?

17:08:25 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You know. One it converts to speaking ru while leaving to maintain it's tribal intellectual poverty. Maybe the Aleuts or something? Or did RU/SU not do this?

17:08:37 asciilifeform: nope.

17:09:12 BingoBoingo: Ah

17:12:41 BingoBoingo: alf you may appreciate this wholesale name theft https://archive.is/yFJXz

17:12:42 assbot: Ubitquity Releases ‘Revolutionary’ Blockchain Real Estate Platform - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/21QzU1i )

17:13:02 asciilifeform: snore.

17:13:22 BingoBoingo: Stole name from Ubitquiti

17:13:31 BingoBoingo: snore, but shows advancing lack of shame

17:13:54 BingoBoingo: Or peril of naming yourself almost a dictionary word

17:31:18 jurov: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/04/france_to_jail_tech_execs_over_encryption davout wtf?

17:31:19 assbot: French parliament votes to jail tech execs who refuse to decrypt data • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/21QCKDz )

17:41:38 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] The mega-problem of bitcoin - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-mega-problem-of-bitcoin/

17:49:26 asciilifeform: ;;isup danielpbarron.com

17:49:29 gribble: danielpbarron.com is down

17:49:45 asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^

17:51:49 danielpbarron: well that's odd.. i'm ircing from the same ip

17:52:13 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: seems like your www serv fell down.

17:54:21 danielpbarron: very strange, I can ping it on my local network, but can't ssh to it

18:00:29 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: are you sure you have enough RAM on pogo to serve wordpress?

18:01:49 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You may have to flense your wordpress further or consider an alternate blogotron based off of werc (Which I have been thinking about but have lacked the chance to explore myself yet)

18:02:22 danielpbarron: well why has it been working up till now? did so many try to load that at once?

18:03:00 BingoBoingo: It's likely on 256 MB of RAM that that would have knocked down your www tron

18:03:23 asciilifeform: 128

18:03:47 BingoBoingo: Aha

18:04:10 danielpbarron: pretty sure i had swap actived on that one

18:04:29 BingoBoingo: But pogo-speed swap...

18:04:59 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Anyways the first place to look at flensing wordpress is your theme.

18:05:21 BingoBoingo: Reduce the number of php calls it needs to do to look the way it does

18:09:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00055377 = 8.3342 BTC [-]

18:12:39 mircea_popescu: lol france

18:13:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> nope. << orly ? ukr ?

18:14:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where ru built everything that distinguishes it from zimbabwe? please play again.

18:14:36 mircea_popescu: how are the phillipines distinguished from kenya ?

18:15:05 asciilifeform: well there is a dimm on my desk stamped 'made in philippines.' there is not, and i looked, one 'made in kenya'.

18:15:29 mircea_popescu: " where ru built everything that distinguishes it from zimbabwe?"

18:15:40 mircea_popescu: don't tell me lazy ladybois did that!

18:17:07 asciilifeform: 100% of what sets the ukrs - quite temporarily - above the monkeys in the zoo, is of su design and manufacture.

18:17:34 asciilifeform: and yes, largely by long-dead folks.

18:17:46 mircea_popescu: and 100% of what sets the piony - quite temporarily - above the monekys in the zoo is of anglo design and manufacture

18:17:56 mircea_popescu: and DEFINITELY by long-dead folks.

18:18:13 asciilifeform: piony?

18:18:18 mircea_popescu: ;;google pinoy

18:18:19 gribble: Pinoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinoy; Urban Dictionary: pinoy: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pinoy; Pinoy Tambayan | Watch Pinoy TV Shows Online: http://www.pinoytvshows.org/

18:18:34 asciilifeform: ah

18:18:46 asciilifeform: certainly true

18:18:55 mircea_popescu: so then yes - ukraine, direct equiv ?

18:19:02 asciilifeform: not in the sense BingoBoingo asked for

18:19:22 asciilifeform: afaik the anglos did not so much as attempt to culturally 'uplift' the pinoy.

18:19:38 mircea_popescu: depends on your definition thereof.

18:19:52 mircea_popescu: introduced xtianity, for instance.

18:19:56 mircea_popescu: also - clothing.

18:19:57 asciilifeform: the ukrs pulled a successful 'fast one' by swallowing up several mil. native ru folk.

18:20:00 asciilifeform: and enslaving.

18:20:10 mircea_popescu: similarly there

18:20:17 mircea_popescu: enslaving my butt.

18:20:20 asciilifeform: what anglos toil in the philippines ?

18:20:32 mircea_popescu: if only there were enslaving.

18:20:48 asciilifeform: nobody asked donbas if it wants to mine coal to power imbecilic kiev.

18:20:56 asciilifeform: to keep nuland's snatch warm

18:21:05 asciilifeform: so - enslaved.

18:21:11 mircea_popescu: eh, get out of here. the last enslaving went the other way, back in stalin's day.

18:21:44 mircea_popescu: nobody asked ukrs if they wanted to fight "the facscist invader" etc.

18:21:45 asciilifeform: stalin followed peter's 'colonization with the crown as sole european' model.

18:22:35 mircea_popescu: kinda ironic how hitler never realised poland/ukraina/etc actually liked him a lot more than saxony.

18:22:57 asciilifeform: at least until he went into tilt, it did.

18:23:08 mircea_popescu: myeah

18:23:10 asciilifeform: but certainly not where, e.g., dirlewanger, had been.

18:23:21 mircea_popescu: that tilt is not even what anglo sources usually like to pretend.

18:23:24 mircea_popescu: loved the jew burning.

18:23:28 asciilifeform: quite!

18:23:41 asciilifeform: to the point that they didn't leave so many for the germans to use

18:23:51 asciilifeform: ditto baltics

18:24:24 mircea_popescu: well for that matter - france.

18:24:30 asciilifeform: there is an interesting (ru) account of a witness who saw the latvians, in anticipation of german arrival, have some fun at a yeshiva

18:24:49 asciilifeform: they frogmarch the bearded folks to the local mechanic shop

18:24:49 mircea_popescu: by and large, quite happy with hitler. at least he's not english. then degaulle came up with a piously fraudulent reinterpretation of the early 40s

18:24:55 asciilifeform: and stuff the air hose down moth

18:24:57 asciilifeform: *mouth

18:25:04 asciilifeform: blowing out his guts through the arse.

18:25:06 asciilifeform: then - next.

18:25:17 asciilifeform: i have always wondered if this is a plausible tale, anatomically

18:25:33 mircea_popescu: quite.

18:25:47 mircea_popescu: air has to go somewhere.

18:26:41 asciilifeform: yeah but is there enough pressure.

18:26:58 asciilifeform: and wouldn't you expect peritoneal burst prior.

18:26:59 mircea_popescu: quite. asshole not designed or intended to hold pressure in that way.

18:27:11 mircea_popescu: how would you distinguish "peritoneal burst" from this ?

18:27:25 asciilifeform: witness specifically said 'guts fell from arse'

18:27:46 mircea_popescu: this is a trained surgeon that'd so distinguish ?

18:27:55 asciilifeform: devil knows.

18:27:57 mircea_popescu: "not THAt inch, THIs inch!"

18:28:03 asciilifeform: i think about this story every time i turn on my compressor.

18:28:49 mircea_popescu: you recall the story of that weioghlifter who butt-exploded shattering shit and blood all over ?

18:29:01 asciilifeform: no?

18:29:05 mircea_popescu: was a thing.

18:29:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo?

18:29:26 mircea_popescu: ;;google "i remember pushing extra hard" weightlifter anal

18:29:27 gribble: 80 Badass Quotes About Training - Chris McCombs: http://chrismccombs.net/80-quotes-about-training/; Weightlifter - Rotten: http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/; Advanced Body Weight Workout - This Will Kick Your Ass | Nerd ...: http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/17/advanced-body-weight-workout-warning-this-will-kick-your-ass/

18:29:44 mircea_popescu: hm. i recall the exact quote. derp was "and then i felt like i was pushing extra hard..."

18:30:06 asciilifeform: l0l survived ?

18:30:09 asciilifeform: surgeons made him a new arse ?

18:31:15 danielpbarron: my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try

18:32:02 asciilifeform: seems to work.

18:32:08 mircea_popescu: i see it.

18:36:55 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, does anybody else find it curious that the linux kernel offers no way to remap keys ?

18:37:31 asciilifeform: and FUCKING NO, the idiot xmodmap thing is pointedly not it (doesn't work in the console) and the keymap derpery is also not it (doesn't work in X) and neither works in, e.g., 'dosbox'.

18:38:34 asciilifeform: on proper machine i do it in hardware.

18:38:36 punkman: NSFL http://poetry.rotten.com/weightlifter/

18:38:37 assbot: Weightlifter ... ( http://bit.ly/21dKwVP )

18:38:38 asciilifeform: on laptops, stuck with the idiocy

18:40:15 asciilifeform: (i consider a machine where ctrl is NOT where capslock usually is, and capslock isn't GONE, -- UNUSABLE)

18:41:40 asciilifeform: punkman: interesting.

18:43:35 mircea_popescu: word, he found it.

18:44:50 mircea_popescu: that's the one. penn state, looks like 20 eyars ago ?

18:44:52 punkman: snopes says the text is dubious though http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/prolapse.asp

18:44:53 assbot: Weight Lifter with Prolapsed Rectum : snopes.com ... ( http://bit.ly/21dKWvj )

18:48:09 mircea_popescu: i myself am persuaded that's a very accurate model of how "force air in oral cavity" would work.

18:48:15 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo? << was a thing, don't recall exact link or quote

18:48:33 mircea_popescu: there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality.

18:48:48 punkman: the split uniform looks suspicious, could also be some goatse dude instead of weightlifter

18:48:49 BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try << take this opportunity to flense. It's seriously 90%+ of making wordpress www worthy

18:49:21 mircea_popescu: but iirc we did that in the logs.

18:49:31 punkman: fuck wordpress, use one of those static site generators

18:49:52 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how distribute coins without mining?

18:49:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422772 << iirc that was embolism tho

18:49:55 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 18:48:33; mircea_popescu: there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality.

18:50:00 asciilifeform: not blood loss

18:50:04 *: BingoBoingo did suggest werc + plugin universe, but I have yet to explore that much myself

18:50:38 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see last night's thread

18:50:40 BingoBoingo: werc is cat-v/9base thing

18:50:46 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as quoted by danielpbarron

18:51:27 punkman: nice, ETH = 0.02943110 BTC

18:51:31 punkman: ;;ticker --market all

18:51:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 399.11, vol: 18536.01772323 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.598, vol: 10493.82931 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 398.6, vol: 51987.50437469 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 405.01, vol: 1.38919073 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 409.344, vol: 66669.56750000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 392.95, vol: 5581.80816405 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 390.511, vol: 218.100316 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

18:53:10 ben_vulpes: aha

18:53:43 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite possibly cutting mining apart from transacting was a design error.

18:53:54 asciilifeform: ditto address-generation from mining.

18:55:42 asciilifeform: if you want to plow a field, what would you rather have? two strong oxen? or 4294967296 cockroaches.

18:55:45 punkman: #altcoin-assets when

18:55:54 ben_vulpes: #bitcoin-redesign

18:55:55 asciilifeform: punkman: iirc we already had

18:56:02 ben_vulpes: #bitcoin-design, rather

18:57:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00055544 = 6.943 BTC [+] {2}

18:57:42 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the one thing i will say for certain is that the moving parts gotta be ~number-theoretical~ entities, rather than idiot protocol-promise goop

18:58:13 asciilifeform: (with their magic bitfields, etc.)

18:59:16 punkman: does monero solve the miner-can-block-my-tx with its ring signatures? (ping fluffypony)

19:00:43 asciilifeform: punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-05-2014#685870

19:00:43 assbot: Logged on 22-05-2014 17:00:58; asciilifeform: re: 'monero': 'Egalitarian proof of work' << do we need to read past this line ?

19:01:19 asciilifeform: and megatonnes of other misc. retardation.

19:04:44 punkman: I think wot+credit-lines solutions are interesting, sorta like the original ripple before the derps bought the name

19:05:05 asciilifeform: punkman: interesting how ?

19:05:22 asciilifeform: or rather, how is this not a throwback to manually-cranked hawala.

19:05:28 asciilifeform: 8th c. state-of-the-art.

19:05:40 punkman: yep

19:07:38 asciilifeform: if i want this, i can go to kandahar.

19:07:53 asciilifeform: and fuck goats.

19:08:02 asciilifeform: it is, imho, uninteresting.

19:08:18 asciilifeform: or, rather, the folks to whom it is interesting, are already doing it.

19:11:45 fluffypony: punkman: miners can block whatever they want

19:11:56 fluffypony: but as to whether they can tell if a transaction is yours, yes, that's something we solve

19:12:23 asciilifeform: fluffypony: solve how ?

19:12:34 asciilifeform: and what are the boundary conditions ?

19:17:39 fluffypony: asciilifeform: by removing the ability for miners to identify your transaction without, say, compromising your machine

19:22:58 asciilifeform: this is the claim.

19:23:01 asciilifeform: but where is the proof ?

19:23:06 asciilifeform: gimme the theorem.

19:23:55 asciilifeform: and even if it were so, it does not help bitbet, which ~already~ could 'prevent miners from blocking tx' IF it chose to keep them secret, but pointedly DOES NOT WANT

19:25:04 asciilifeform: i know of at least 3 'dark coin' schemes, each of dubious cryptographic foundation, for 'nonpublic tx'

19:26:07 asciilifeform: imho the notion is misguided. existing bitcoin can work this way if one wants it to. but, e.g., bitbet, DOES NOT

19:26:10 asciilifeform: want to.

19:26:40 fluffypony: asciilifeform: https://lab.getmonero.org

19:26:41 assbot: Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future ... ( http://bit.ly/1UIeHoj )

19:26:52 fluffypony: and the original CryptoNote whitepaper: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

19:26:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UIeKQV )

19:26:54 fluffypony: proofs are at the end

19:27:19 fluffypony: the MRL1, MRL4, and MRL5 papers are most relevant to the more enhancements we've made or are making

19:27:28 asciilifeform: ring signature just lets you 'one of keys k1,k2,...kn COULD HAVE signed this.'

19:27:33 asciilifeform: there is nothing magic about it.

19:27:38 fluffypony: nobody said there was

19:27:42 fluffypony: but you asked for proofs

19:27:44 asciilifeform: and does not protect against any serious actor.

19:27:47 fluffypony: they're in the whitepaper

19:28:21 fluffypony: stealth addresses provide unlinkability, ring signatures provide untraceability

19:28:28 fluffypony: definitions of both of those terms are in the whitepaper

19:28:39 fluffypony: RingCT obscures transaction amounts, that's in MRL5

19:28:44 asciilifeform: and if you want to prove that a particular tx was yours ?

19:29:01 asciilifeform: say, because you want to actually get the thing you were paying for ?

19:29:22 fluffypony: you have multiple options, the easiest of which is reveal the private key for that transaction

19:29:31 asciilifeform: ugh

19:29:50 fluffypony: all it does is allow a recreation of the key images for that transaction in order to verify that you actually created it

19:29:57 fluffypony: seriously, read the whitepaper

19:30:07 fluffypony: there's actual maths in it

19:30:09 asciilifeform: and what does this do to the anonymity of your other transactions ?

19:30:46 fluffypony: unless you're in the habit of publicly revealing this information for all your transactions it does nothing

19:30:59 fluffypony: (by nothing I mean its effects are cryptographically negligible)

19:31:36 asciilifeform: if 'ring signature' means what shamir meant by it, than it is not 'negligible.'

19:31:44 asciilifeform: srsly i am tired of the crypto abuse.

19:31:44 fluffypony: dude

19:31:49 fluffypony: READ THE WHITEPAPER

19:31:52 asciilifeform: i did.

19:31:58 fluffypony: really, in 30 seconds?

19:32:01 asciilifeform: the last time we had this thread !

19:32:04 asciilifeform: or what, this is a new one ?

19:32:11 asciilifeform: with different mechanism ?

19:32:23 fluffypony: so then you understand that the ring signatures are only on inputs

19:32:28 asciilifeform: aha

19:32:56 asciilifeform: so if you reveal your connection with whatever inputs, you have given non-negligible info to the enemy.

19:33:04 fluffypony: so if an input appears to come from 20 outputs on the blockchain there is an equiprobable chance that each of those 20 outputs is the real one

19:33:15 fluffypony: if you reveal it then you reveal which of the outputs was really yours

19:33:32 asciilifeform: and when those outputs in turn become inputs ?

19:33:36 asciilifeform: for another tx

19:33:56 fluffypony: yes - so in any future transaction if you happen to use the same output in a ring then one of those is out

19:34:08 asciilifeform: and here we get to the boojum.

19:34:11 fluffypony: but you can blacklist those outputs in your personal capacity

19:34:34 asciilifeform: and so now i'm stuck having to juggle pots of own coin to maintain this so-called auto anonymity ?

19:34:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00055365 = 12.9554 BTC [-] {2}

19:35:02 fluffypony: consider what the chance is of you mixing with an output you've already revealed to an attacker

19:35:09 asciilifeform: this is the thing about fancy schemes, apparently i'm an evil terrorist for thinking 17 steps ahead instead of the apparently assumed 1 or 2.

19:35:35 asciilifeform: fluffypony: if i'm, e.g., bitbet, and ROUTINELY reveal outputs, the chance is 100%.

19:35:36 fluffypony: there's absolutely nothing fancy about this

19:35:57 *: fluffypony lols

19:36:20 fluffypony: so there's a bucket of tens of thousands of outputs, and you routinely reveal outputs, so there's a 100% chance you're going to mix with a previously revealed output?

19:36:38 asciilifeform: as t-->+inf - YES.

19:37:15 fluffypony: sure

19:37:18 asciilifeform: ring signature adds an astonishing amount of complexity, for dubious gain.

19:37:21 asciilifeform: this is my verdict.

19:37:23 asciilifeform: fwiw.

19:37:29 fluffypony: so in this one special case you have to maybe blacklist outputs and not mix with them

19:37:38 fluffypony: for everyone else your special case doesn't apply

19:37:41 asciilifeform: spoonful of shit in barrel of wine.

19:38:03 fluffypony: so your argument adds an astonishingly nonsensical case that presents dubious privacy risks

19:38:05 fluffypony: fin.

19:38:12 asciilifeform: now there is ~at least one~ special case to think about, whereas before there were none.

19:38:32 asciilifeform: whole thing is quite reminiscent of tor.

19:38:46 asciilifeform: where 'no one could possibly break' unless 'special case', which, guess what, reliably happened.

19:38:50 asciilifeform: because it could.

19:38:55 fluffypony: ah yes, the asciilifeform "everything is bad except this hardware thing I've been working on for 4 years and still can't finish" argument

19:39:03 asciilifeform: not even related ?

19:39:34 asciilifeform: except perhaps in the 'you kicked my puppy so i'll kick yours' sense ?

19:39:39 asciilifeform: guess what, i have no puppy.

19:39:51 *: fluffypony chuckles

19:40:27 asciilifeform: kick to your heart's content.

19:41:14 fluffypony: I'm not kicking anything, I just find it amusing

19:42:14 danielpbarron: how was the roundtable, fluffypony ?

19:42:28 fluffypony: equal parts interesting and frustrating

19:42:46 fluffypony: mircea_popescu came up a couple of times

19:43:06 fluffypony: mostly in the context of "we should have invited him to add a voice to this, but I doubt he'd come to the USA"

19:44:26 danielpbarron: oh it was in the US? where? I thought it was on some island somewhere

19:44:41 fluffypony: first one was on an island

19:44:47 fluffypony: this one was in Sandpiper Bay in Florida

19:45:23 asciilifeform: does fluffypony also go to winemaking conferences in riyadh ?

19:45:43 asciilifeform: porn-making conf in teheran ?

19:46:29 asciilifeform: do they also wonder why mircea_popescu won't come.

19:46:46 fluffypony: I don't think there was a question of whether or not he would come

19:46:51 fluffypony: but a question of whether or not he was invited

19:47:00 danielpbarron: they'd have to make room for his harem

19:47:14 *: asciilifeform bbl, heard that the ants in the kitchen are having a conference, and wouldn't mind if he attended to 'add his voice'

19:49:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422780 "catastrophically exploded internal organs".

19:49:44 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 18:50:00; asciilifeform: not blood loss

19:50:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422789 << if this is true, it really takes bitcoin outside of this whole "be your own bank" mental space

19:50:29 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 18:53:43; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite possibly cutting mining apart from transacting was a design error.

19:50:46 mircea_popescu: large part of the promise and value of bitcoin is exactly this chickenizing of banking.

19:50:49 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/#b20

19:51:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422803 << yeah, but think abotu the reason the name was sold in the first place.

19:51:52 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:04:44; punkman: I think wot+credit-lines solutions are interesting, sorta like the original ripple before the derps bought the name

19:52:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422820 << well... ideally does not want.

19:52:41 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:23:55; asciilifeform: and even if it were so, it does not help bitbet, which ~already~ could 'prevent miners from blocking tx' IF it chose to keep them secret, but pointedly DOES NOT WANT

19:55:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422868 << you realise that provability and anonimity are in this exact sense contrary desires, you will necessarily be stuck with something like this if you want to at the same time both.

19:55:01 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:34:34; asciilifeform: and so now i'm stuck having to juggle pots of own coin to maintain this so-called auto anonymity ?

19:55:12 mircea_popescu: this has nothing to do with math, even. it's a given.

19:57:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00055336 = 27.17 BTC [-] {6}

19:59:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14556 @ 0.00055323 = 8.0528 BTC [-]

20:00:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422881 << so what becomes of the outputs then. blacklisted 4evar ?

20:00:28 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:37:29; fluffypony: so in this one special case you have to maybe blacklist outputs and not mix with them

20:02:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422884 << well, the privacy risks aren't exactly dubious in that i don't atm see how ring signatures would prevent miner cartel from attacking bitbet. except, of course, if predicated on "miners are lazy and dumb". which is true - until they aren't. much like ants are lazy and dumb, until they get into the fridge, at which point they'll dumbly&lazily never want to leave.

20:02:28 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:38:03; fluffypony: so your argument adds an astonishingly nonsensical case that presents dubious privacy risks

20:03:57 ben_vulpes: did i miss a fork proposal for july that would nuke miner cartelization, or perhaps even pooled mining?

20:03:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422900 << let's not flatter ourselves. the odds of mp showing up to "add a voice" to $randomitem are ~nil.

20:03:59 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:43:06; fluffypony: mostly in the context of "we should have invited him to add a voice to this, but I doubt he'd come to the USA"

20:04:10 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you did so did i.

20:04:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422905 << actually i'd go to that one.

20:04:40 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 19:45:43; asciilifeform: porn-making conf in teheran ?

20:04:54 mircea_popescu: but mostly to add some nudity.

20:04:56 ben_vulpes: i found an antipooling design 'idea' on hackingdistributed

20:05:09 ben_vulpes: but that's all i've found so far.

20:05:56 mircea_popescu: huh ?

20:06:14 mircea_popescu: you mean http://fraudsters.com/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol ?

20:06:16 assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqDUTU )

20:06:31 ben_vulpes: nono

20:06:34 ben_vulpes: http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/

20:06:35 assbot: How to Disincentivize Large Bitcoin Mining Pools ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqDWuQ )

20:06:44 ben_vulpes: but yes that too

20:07:03 mircea_popescu: i'll click later

20:08:25 mircea_popescu: anwyay, yes, bitcoin is traversing perhaps the first true crisis since its founding, between now and the halving.

20:08:30 mircea_popescu: a sort of puberty i guess.

20:08:58 mircea_popescu: ironically, it had absolutely nothing to do with all the derps, in the end.

20:10:03 mircea_popescu: not with the wanna-be ceos and assorted "captains of industry" ; not with the wanna-be coders and assorted "power rangers" ; not with the wanna-be journos and assorted redditards ; not with the wanna-be sikrit agents and assorted nsa tools.

20:10:14 mircea_popescu: so many wasted lives, huh.

20:10:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i stopped reading at 'Any good solution in this space must also preserve the large investments many miners have made and are planning to make in their equipment.' and the swimming pool photo (??!)

20:11:09 ben_vulpes: it aint' great, asciilifeform

20:11:32 asciilifeform: i want my 10 seconds back.

20:11:50 ben_vulpes: complain to fluffypony he took what, 3 minutes?

20:12:34 asciilifeform: ~30 to date.

20:12:51 asciilifeform: (counting only mine)

20:13:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00055697 = 9.0508 BTC [+] {4}

20:16:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422950 << so am i thick, or what did nsa even want if not for mircea_popescu to go long on fiat?

20:16:01 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 20:10:03; mircea_popescu: not with the wanna-be ceos and assorted "captains of industry" ; not with the wanna-be coders and assorted "power rangers" ; not with the wanna-be journos and assorted redditards ; not with the wanna-be sikrit agents and assorted nsa tools.

20:17:13 asciilifeform: the enemies of sound money are uncorking champagne today.

20:19:03 asciilifeform: the escape hatch from toiletpaper weimarworld closes.

20:19:13 asciilifeform: which is all they want.

20:24:45 mircea_popescu: yea well.

20:25:17 mircea_popescu: you hafta understand mp was rich and powerful long before bitcoin.

20:25:33 asciilifeform: afaik everyone knew this?

20:25:53 mircea_popescu: so it's not that simple.

20:26:38 mircea_popescu: but yes, the enemies of sound money are certainly served by bitcoin miner cartelization. doh.

20:26:43 mircea_popescu: ipso definitio unsound money.

20:27:00 asciilifeform: mp calls artillery strike on own position. takes cover in bunker. the rest of tmsr - in ???.

20:27:28 mircea_popescu: again with the effects talk. looky : what'd you have me do, not say anything ?

20:28:17 asciilifeform: hey if i knew how to fly a dirigible, i'd be flyin.

20:28:28 mircea_popescu: all through the past 7 years the whole spiel was "[these known vulnerabilities] but the miners would never dare do that because of market reaction". what exactly did you imagine that reaction is built out of ? reddit derping ?

20:28:45 mircea_popescu: the market reaction is built out of divestment.

20:29:01 asciilifeform: and anyway i predicted in '13 when first showed up here.

20:29:12 asciilifeform: so i can l0llate.

20:29:21 mircea_popescu: and yeah, sure, perhaps the market's not rational enough, and yeah, sure, maybe fed prints more to buy bitcoin. whatevs.

20:30:12 mircea_popescu: stop worring about what things mean and what may come and so forth, focus on doing the right thing at each juncture i say.

20:30:44 mircea_popescu: as long as "i did nothing wrong" at each successive point, you'll be a happy dead man.

20:31:09 asciilifeform: this is given to no one.

20:31:19 mircea_popescu: what ?

20:31:40 asciilifeform: 'know i did nothng wrong'

20:31:50 mircea_popescu: why not ?

20:32:30 asciilifeform: which is why every old officer wakes up screamng now and then, and recalculates, again and again

20:32:47 mircea_popescu: this trivially reduces to "usable computer can not be built". which is it.

20:33:06 asciilifeform: has not been built.

20:36:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, ftr, re ben_vulpes link (not that i've read it or intend to read random derpage from nobodies on topics) - years ago protecting miner investment made sense as a topic.

20:37:36 asciilifeform: aha. when the bees stop making honey, they are no longer valuable livestock, but just annoying vermin.

20:37:42 mircea_popescu: somethinglikethat.

20:37:46 asciilifeform: and so - ddt.

20:38:52 BingoBoingo: !up JuliaTourianski_

20:39:03 asciilifeform: the problem is that bees also pollinate.

20:39:08 JuliaTourianski_: ;;bcauth JuliaTourianski_

20:39:08 gribble: Request successful for user JuliaTourianski_, hostmask JuliaTourianski_!68c89707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.200.151.7. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:0ae7ad23affed4fee02c6fe2d6a4b48efb8dbeb2660539f943f9ae9c

20:39:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30150 @ 0.00055323 = 16.6799 BTC [-] {2}

20:39:51 BingoBoingo: !t m s.qntr

20:39:51 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00023293 / 0.00039746 / 0.00049913 (203014 shares, 80.69 BTC)

20:39:57 BingoBoingo: !t m s.bbet

20:39:57 assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000105 / 0.000105 / 0.000105 (500 shares, 0.05 BTC)

20:40:04 BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe

20:40:04 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00055323 / 0.00055571 / 0.00055936 (845759 shares, 470.00 BTC), 7D: 0.00055323 / 0.00057967 / 0.00059897 (15875140 shares, 9,202.36 BTC), 30D: 0.00054156 / 0.00056753 / 0.00059897 (87631792 shares, 49,734.17 BTC)

20:40:12 BingoBoingo: !t m s.nsa

20:40:12 assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000085 / 0.00008503 / 0.000086 (3000 shares, 0.26 BTC)

20:40:34 BingoBoingo: !t m s.mg

20:40:34 assbot: [MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00010096 / 0.000105 (7000 shares, 0.71 BTC)

20:40:40 BingoBoingo: !t m x.eur

20:40:41 assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00254562 / 0.00254685 (342 shares, 0.87 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259691 / 0.00262744 (1539 shares, 4.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00273559 / 0.00332476 (9614 shares, 26.30 BTC)

20:41:20 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yer a bit early for the gotterdammerung. give it time.

20:42:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm just trying to figure out how to cover this actual crisis now that Bitcoin has one.

20:42:51 asciilifeform: this is like asking how to cover meteor.

20:43:25 asciilifeform: everyone can just look out the window and see the black sky.

20:43:32 asciilifeform: no need to read.

20:43:59 ben_vulpes: seveneves!

20:44:22 BingoBoingo: What? No one literate enough to make code has started prototyping necessary brick chicom hardware fork?

20:44:26 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: oh how i hated that thing

20:44:31 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: quite mizerable.

20:44:59 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didja miss all the schelling point threads?

20:45:35 BingoBoingo: I'm trying to digest how this all relates if the biggest schelling point of Cliter reign follows halving.

20:45:56 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i read whole thing, and cannot even begin to count the necessary barf buckets.

20:46:33 ben_vulpes: so cartelization, preservation of extant btc distribution not even desireable. sounds like a new genesis, altcoin, if the prototype is even preserveable?

20:46:42 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: we had a rusty old boat. it was pathetic and barely floated, but it was a boat.

20:46:55 asciilifeform: now mircea_popescu opened scuttling valve.

20:47:06 asciilifeform: which was his privilege.

20:47:45 BingoBoingo: So, how do we make a better boat on the open sea?

20:47:51 asciilifeform: nfi.

20:48:04 asciilifeform: or rather i have quite fi

20:48:13 asciilifeform: but no resource.

20:48:19 BingoBoingo: A boat which, in scuttling value we can float new boat in?

20:48:24 asciilifeform: which is ~same as nfi.

20:48:41 asciilifeform: no such thing.

20:49:36 BingoBoingo: Spz adacoin, could not old boat be scuttled into supporting that or?

20:49:50 ben_vulpes: no time

20:49:51 asciilifeform: how?

20:50:12 BingoBoingo: Like the hardfork dilemma.

20:50:54 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu doesn't support things, period. and imho this is reasonable.

20:52:03 BingoBoingo: So, are we reverting back to seeing how many benjies we can shove into the bank of arse?

20:52:19 asciilifeform: so unless BingoBoingo writes adacoin, there is no adacoin.

20:52:29 asciilifeform: get crackin'.

20:53:05 BingoBoingo: hmmm....

20:53:17 *: BingoBoingo going to clear some brush and think about life.

21:02:52 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423034 << that only worked because, in phorkwar, one could sell phork-btc and buy btc, forming an arse-mouth loop.

21:02:52 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 20:50:12; BingoBoingo: Like the hardfork dilemma.

21:03:14 asciilifeform: and any btc holder could play.

21:03:43 asciilifeform: this does not work for alts.

21:04:31 asciilifeform: (because there is no satisfactory way of bootstrapping any alt.)

21:05:34 asciilifeform: nor anything to prevent an alt from being bulldozed by ft meade, or beijing, or whoever else can print money and bake silicon.

21:07:09 asciilifeform: and, as usual, i have a pill against these boojums, but it is very bitter and i promise that no one will want it.

21:08:45 asciilifeform: (tldr: hawala over gossipd. an end to the 'anyone is a bank' dream.)

21:09:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> (because there is no satisfactory way of bootstrapping any alt.) << in principle a ~WELL DESIGNED~ alt with a ~WELL CHOSEN~ pow would work quite well.

21:09:58 asciilifeform: against the printing press ?

21:10:02 mircea_popescu: benefits from all the marketing bitcoin did for it, without having to pay (in the shape of entrenched idiots of all stripes)

21:10:23 mircea_popescu: however, if it is going to be an altcoin, as in, no continuity, then it doesn't matter so much if tomorrow or yest or whenever.

21:10:38 asciilifeform: printing press throws infinite silicon at it.

21:10:57 mircea_popescu: printing press does no such thing. never did.

21:11:09 mircea_popescu: if whatever you're doing is threatened by a government, you're either very stupid or very lazy.

21:11:30 BingoBoingo: So, how do we well design an alt.

21:11:34 asciilifeform: and btc cartel is what?

21:12:36 mircea_popescu: and sure, you can blame the miners. the problem is - the design sort-of forced this endgame upon them. i doubt most of the chinese even understand ~what went wrong~, in the very faint general, letalone in this specific ~what we did wrong~. by the chinese bible they were being very reasonable and i just don't understand how the world works. ach ach my dear fellow mp.

21:12:57 mircea_popescu: after the unintentional hardfork over the imbecillic high-s thing, this was perhaps inevitable. what are they do to ?

21:13:03 asciilifeform: now this is true.

21:13:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btc cartel is a bunch of dudes with some technical ability and no clue generally.

21:13:59 asciilifeform: the interesting moment will be whe usg hyenas feast on the corpses,

21:14:07 asciilifeform: of them.

21:14:18 mircea_popescu: you and your twin anal and usg preoccupations.

21:14:22 mircea_popescu: have you noticed this ?

21:14:49 asciilifeform: i'm a prisoner.

21:14:55 asciilifeform: whaddayawant.

21:15:11 asciilifeform: zek.

21:15:25 mircea_popescu: hopefully some hicks from missouri capture you and i can hear all about the ozarks supremacy for a while.

21:15:46 BingoBoingo: !b 4

21:15:46 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/10ZSWDG.txt )

21:17:19 asciilifeform: same thing.

21:17:44 JuliaTourianski_: the Chinese miners want and like single leadership because chinese.

21:18:16 JuliaTourianski_: they will never go against perceived consensus

21:18:45 mircea_popescu: pity they already did.

21:19:18 JuliaTourianski_: they went against core?

21:19:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://megalyrics.ru/lyric/vladimir-vysotskii/zk-vasiliev-i-zk-pietrov.htm << oblig re zeks.

21:19:30 assbot: 500 Internal Server Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1TWQ8ET )

21:19:48 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski_ no, they went against the consensus. what's core ?

21:19:49 BingoBoingo: JuliaTourianski_: They went against the don't be shitheads when 51+%

21:20:27 BingoBoingo: Further ~80-90 percent of hash all got together and MET!?

21:21:18 JuliaTourianski_: oh thats another thing altogether

21:21:28 BingoBoingo: But the same problem

21:21:31 JuliaTourianski_: i was thinking blocksize

21:21:41 mircea_popescu: stop focusing on teh irrelevant.

21:22:07 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo imagine someone somewhere thinking this is a good idea.

21:22:19 mircea_popescu: now imagine what other incredibly dumb shit they imagine is a good idea for crying out loud.

21:23:56 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This is why /me leans towards well designed altcoin as solution. Something capable being ada-ified, but perhaps implementable in rougher form.

21:24:07 BingoBoingo: Becaus ewe can't have a republic without money

21:24:26 BingoBoingo: At least not without aloha snackbar

21:24:35 mircea_popescu: "well designed" does not happeb by fiat.

21:24:50 JuliaTourianski_: the thing alt coiners don't get is...if btc "fails" alt coins lose all cred. wont get any traction EVEN if perfect

21:25:09 BingoBoingo: JuliaTourianski_: BTC just failed, now what?

21:25:17 BingoBoingo: And there's no well designed alts

21:25:22 JuliaTourianski_: back to gold

21:25:32 JuliaTourianski_: and ur dark place

21:25:38 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski_ nobody wants "the cred" of imbecile redditars & all.

21:25:49 mircea_popescu: i'd honestly much prefer the situation where "evangelism" never happened.

21:25:53 BingoBoingo: And now TSA plucks arsecoin out or arsecoin wallet with flashlight

21:26:15 asciilifeform: if you're talking about gold and you aren't wearing a crown and leading an army -- delusional.

21:26:23 mircea_popescu: in fact, the lot of them getting burned off is at least as valuable as bricking the idiot chinese miner rigs.

21:26:24 JuliaTourianski_: reddit is a pool of people who should never breed

21:27:05 JuliaTourianski_: well guys

21:27:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: famine doesn't affect rats and mice. quite the opposite.

21:27:28 JuliaTourianski_: jackson palmer said usd will outlive btc so lets all fold our cards.

21:27:34 mod6: if this is all correct, then i agree with alf. there is no reason to continue work on trb - we should suspend, indefinately, all efforts therein. At least until somehow we have a re-write that resolves these issues.

21:27:47 shinohai: T_T

21:28:44 mircea_popescu: mod6 your call to make, together with ben_vulpes i guess - the point remains, if no trb offering in july, no trb offering in july.

21:28:52 BingoBoingo: mod6: Well, work on a trb with a new genesis block could be an interesting skeleton for altcoin. It opens the door to flensing far deeper.

21:29:20 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not really.

21:29:35 mod6: Why is july a thing? This doesn't make sense. If prb wants to fork a centralized mining protocol, that doesn't make it any less dead.

21:29:41 asciilifeform: try to undestand the difference between bug and misdesign.

21:30:23 mircea_popescu: mod6 because more or less then, it'll be a case of "well... what does everyone use ?"

21:30:43 mod6: well, everyone who doens't matter.

21:30:55 mod6: and that's not good enough.

21:31:02 asciilifeform: and i admit that i wonder about mpex.

21:31:15 mod6: so if derps wanna use centralized mining shitware, they can continue. but i wont, and you wont.

21:31:28 mircea_popescu: something like that.

21:31:49 asciilifeform: what does mircea_popescu say to the shareholders? 'enjoy the ride dowd to the ground from 20,000 metres' ?

21:32:02 asciilifeform: *down

21:32:16 mircea_popescu: why do you suppose anything has to be said in particular ? i dun follow.

21:32:20 shinohai: without trb, Bitcoin is basically useless. To me anyway.

21:32:29 asciilifeform: ^

21:32:33 *: BingoBoingo will nevar be able to get an address in another currency as beautiful as 1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4 again

21:32:33 mircea_popescu: if gates switches to euros, what would he say to microshit shareholders ?

21:32:50 asciilifeform: not analogous.

21:32:56 mircea_popescu: be specific.

21:33:24 asciilifeform: euros are same as usd.

21:33:33 mircea_popescu: to you.

21:33:49 mircea_popescu: to random microshit investor, bitcoin is the same as flooz.

21:34:05 *: BingoBoingo thinks MPEx can have important role as market between BlightCoin and Coin during the transition.

21:34:09 asciilifeform: well yes.

21:34:48 asciilifeform: and to a bitcoin user, currencies that have to mive physically, or hawalate, are all stone knives.

21:34:54 asciilifeform: *move

21:35:15 asciilifeform: and prop up the state.

21:35:32 mircea_popescu: well yeah.

21:37:21 asciilifeform: but to say that mircea_popescu's retreat is of no interest to mpex users, beggars the imagination and melts my brain.

21:37:35 asciilifeform: but who am i to say.

21:37:43 mircea_popescu: if it's of interest or not it is their call to make neh ?

21:37:52 asciilifeform: the spartans can speak for themselves

21:37:58 asciilifeform: with their swords.

21:38:08 asciilifeform: aha.

21:38:53 mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose it's absolutely obvious and entirely uncontroversial that a bitcoin with cartel-mining is entirely uninteresting to everyone.

21:39:15 mircea_popescu: not that the philipinos won't be coming out of the underbrush to push the unexpected "just as good" verbiage, or w/e.

21:39:43 asciilifeform: the cartel was not reliably in control.

21:39:56 mircea_popescu: hm ?

21:39:57 asciilifeform: there was, e.g., no usg whitelist.

21:40:13 asciilifeform: the way there is with visa.

21:40:20 mircea_popescu: dude wouldja stop with the usg shoehorning ?

21:40:25 mircea_popescu: the united states of america DO NOT MATTER.

21:40:37 mircea_popescu: nobody cares. really. honestly.

21:40:47 mircea_popescu: they have no power, no influence, no impact and no credibility.

21:41:06 asciilifeform: it is simply the current britain. forget the particular.

21:41:13 mircea_popescu: it ended, long ago, various 2nd hand leaders a la putin now and again go to kick the once-great, currently ridiculous loser.

21:41:25 asciilifeform: all fiat is one.

21:41:36 mircea_popescu: wouldja stop being confusing.

21:42:46 asciilifeform: lizards print, while others work. that is what fiat is. in roman debased silver, or today.

21:43:02 mircea_popescu: nobody in the us has done a spot of work in about fifty years.

21:43:48 asciilifeform: why work when you can print, aha.

21:44:16 mircea_popescu: anyway. in my personal scoreboard, this is chalked down as one of those grand disasters of stupidity. exactly in line with an older article of yours,

21:44:41 mircea_popescu: "these idiots were given an opportunity, and they figured running the rigs as efficiently as possible is everything that may ever matter."

21:44:52 mircea_popescu: no nefariousness need be involved for people to fuck up grandiosely.

21:45:01 asciilifeform: and when the time comes and beijing prints, while swedish coolies toil, beijing will be indistinguishable from today's washington.

21:46:05 Reydev: hey guys is the current discussion still related to the bitbet payout thing discussed some days ago?

21:46:27 asciilifeform: Reydev: it is.

21:46:31 Reydev: ok

21:51:52 mod6: mircea_popescu: so if your pre-req for change to btc protocol was adopted, and ASICs were rendered useless, how does one begin to attack the problem of mining pools?

21:52:26 mircea_popescu: ah, that post was made in a happier time, a more innocent time.

21:52:29 asciilifeform: !s non-outsourceable

21:52:29 assbot: 11 results for 'non-outsourceable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=non-outsourceable

21:52:57 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-08-2015#1251979

21:52:57 assbot: Logged on 25-08-2015 18:53:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: workfunctions, there was once some theoretical work concerning 'non-outsourceable puzzles', i.e. mathematical magic preventing the formation of pools by allowing any pool participant to silently and untraceably claim the entire block reward. but i cannot recall if this went anywhere other than academiwankery.

21:53:16 mircea_popescu: but anyway - there's a substantial difference between the degree of brokedness bitcoin experienced between 2010 and about 2013ish, where imbecile independent miners nevertheless gave their vote blank to "pool" operators (mcuh like idiot shareholders let the various brokers to vote for them)

21:53:32 asciilifeform: mod6: but remember, this is only a pill against demoooocracy

21:53:45 asciilifeform: i.e. many small derps pooling

21:53:54 mircea_popescu: and the degree of brokedness bitcoin experiences now, post-cartelization (an event which we'd more or less date as occuring either in degrees or at some point between the high-s fork and march trhe 3rd)

21:54:05 asciilifeform: it does nothing against large monolithic derps.

21:54:07 mircea_popescu: wherein ACTUALY MINERS are centralized, pools are irrelevant.

21:54:51 mircea_popescu: so : by breaking the capital investment of the current idiots that had the unmitigated audacity to meet and the breathtaking stupidity to not only admit it, but bring it like some sort of value in public, like the mongoloid children proud of his fingerpainting works in his own shit

21:55:24 mircea_popescu: we at the very least achieve a very useful head of a mongoloid on a stick for the education of future retarded children of (principally) asian mothers,

21:55:34 mircea_popescu: and hopefully the next crop will have more sense.

21:55:57 asciilifeform: this ever worked?

21:56:26 mircea_popescu: for varying definitions of working.

21:56:40 asciilifeform: in jp there are 1500+ yr old 'tsunami stones'.

21:56:57 asciilifeform: 'do not build after this line.'

21:57:12 asciilifeform: and... guess what.

21:57:13 mod6: is there anything in anyones opinion that the foundation could do with trb to move past this problem?

21:57:26 mircea_popescu: this is deeply unclear as of yet.

21:57:50 mircea_popescu: in general "what to do" has been a foremost topic in everyone's head for days now, i would imagine.

21:58:17 mod6: fair enough.

21:58:30 asciilifeform: seems like mircea_popescu already decided ?

21:58:37 mircea_popescu: what ?

21:58:44 asciilifeform: whattodo.

21:58:52 mircea_popescu: i have ?

21:58:57 asciilifeform: sell btc, buy icecream.

21:59:21 mircea_popescu: well not all of it.

21:59:21 JuliaTourianski_: buy dash coin lol

21:59:34 asciilifeform: am i mistaken?

21:59:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dawg, portofolios get adjusted all the time in response to market conditions, whadda ya want.

22:00:47 JuliaTourianski_: we want ur unshakable faith

22:01:15 asciilifeform: again spurious analogy. or is mircea_popescu about to explain how tmsr still has a philosophical foundation without sound money.

22:01:50 mircea_popescu: sound money can at best be a practical foundation.

22:01:59 mircea_popescu: best i can see both these items sit on the same philosophical foundation.

22:02:10 mircea_popescu: which, inasmuch as it's philosophical, doesn't really get touched by phenomena.

22:03:36 asciilifeform: geographically dispersed honest commerce stands on bitcoin, just as dispersed wot stands on publickey crypto.

22:03:49 asciilifeform: without these things, free world is a dream.

22:04:23 mircea_popescu: you know - i did geographically dispersed honest commerce long before bitcoin.

22:04:44 mircea_popescu: without these things ~free world accessible to arbitrary $fortune~ is a dream.

22:04:47 mircea_popescu: but otherwise...

22:05:00 asciilifeform: and yes, bitcoin is not a boat, but a plank from broken boat.

22:06:13 mircea_popescu: why the fuck did you imagine the various items and pillars to build a coherent world-envelloping system come to me so easily ? i'm not coming up with fucking wot-economy and pgp-corporations and all this de novo, i'm just applying to pre-existing items!

22:06:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a world where a lizard can print is by no reasonable description 'free'.

22:06:52 asciilifeform: but fundamentally soviet.

22:09:03 mircea_popescu: soviet world had it's own free subset ; much like the 1984 world has its free subset. the people running the black market that orwell does not even wish to consider.

22:09:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00055323 = 1.6597 BTC [-]

22:09:43 asciilifeform: go buy a working cramershoup on this blackmarket?

22:10:00 asciilifeform: or a usable computer.

22:10:04 mircea_popescu: i'm more interested in slavegirls and icecream, but sure.

22:10:15 mircea_popescu: note that my interest in computers is, these days, ~strictly predicated on trb.

22:10:40 asciilifeform: there had to be some reason why mircea_popescu even bothered with bitcoin

22:10:48 mircea_popescu: this particular system, for instance, i've been running for a while now on a half dozen long etc hosts, i don't even notice.

22:10:57 asciilifeform: given that he already had lifetime icecream

22:11:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it made sense. but note that it was principally the irc chan that sold me.

22:12:00 asciilifeform: it seems to me that mircea_popescu does not live by icecream and cunt alone ?

22:12:08 mircea_popescu: perhaps not spurious to link here http://fraudsters.com/2013/noob-mp-or-how-it-all-began/

22:12:09 assbot: Noob MP, or how it all began on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ygk7qH )

22:12:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117400 @ 0.00055266 = 64.8823 BTC [-] {10}

22:12:57 *: asciilifeform recalls reading this

22:15:07 *: BingoBoingo notices alf's grieving process skips to simultaneous depression and acceptance

22:15:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6201 @ 0.0005522 = 3.4242 BTC [-]

22:15:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have ~0 btc.

22:15:43 mircea_popescu: rounded to the nearest million ?

22:15:56 asciilifeform: l0l

22:16:13 mircea_popescu: (i'm not porposing you have a lot - merely poking fun at the rounding process you prolly use regardless)

22:17:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Anyways you've got warrants in a substantial portion of S.NSA which are convertible to BTC or its successor on MPEx

22:17:25 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: will soon be worth fiddycents.

22:17:42 asciilifeform: i suppose it will buy a resistor.

22:17:53 asciilifeform: or two.

22:18:27 BingoBoingo: What, no faith in hawalla over gossipd? or a well-designed altcoin ever happening?

22:18:48 asciilifeform: not like 100% of my work wasn't funded by bad old usd always.

22:19:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't pay rent in anything but usd and don't see this changing.

22:19:56 mircea_popescu: and in other icecream news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1956mUMp1qz7dr7o1_1280.jpg

22:19:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ygl5TQ )

22:20:06 asciilifeform: so for me, nothing really changes.

22:20:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.0005522 = 14.302 BTC [-] {2}

22:20:23 asciilifeform: except that i have nfi what we're doing with trb.

22:21:01 mircea_popescu: what do you expect changed with trb ? you weren't doing it to get rich, were you ? you weren't doing it for redditettes to throw their panties at you, were you ?

22:21:02 BingoBoingo: Alf paid his rent in USD and thusly his life had remained unmanageable

22:21:24 mircea_popescu: how is feb 5th differfent from march 5th ? there's a pile of shitty code implementing sort-of kinda badly a concept, that's being extracted to light.

22:21:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was doing it to help kill hitler.

22:21:36 mircea_popescu: it had a failure mode that was known forever. so ?

22:22:03 mircea_popescu: how do you know what you were doing helped kill hitlker and how do you know it doesn't no mo.

22:22:22 asciilifeform: had nfi.

22:22:32 mircea_popescu: well therefore argument is invalid ?

22:22:50 asciilifeform: how?

22:23:09 mircea_popescu: if you already had nfi, no comparison is possible.

22:23:27 asciilifeform: was doing the one thing i knew of that might help, i thought, to nail hitler.

22:23:34 mircea_popescu: and what's changed ?

22:23:44 asciilifeform: well:

22:24:03 asciilifeform: for what currency we will sell cardano et al? camels?

22:24:21 punkman: why not dollars

22:24:23 mircea_popescu: don't tell me we're in any imminent danger of selling cardanos ?!

22:24:33 danielpbarron: we can still play Eulora though, right?

22:24:38 asciilifeform: forget about imminent

22:24:39 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron sure ?

22:24:47 danielpbarron: coppers still sound

22:24:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then how about you make the thing and once it's made we figure out the marketing plan,

22:25:00 mircea_popescu: rather than figure the marketing plan before the thing's even vapour.

22:25:21 asciilifeform: sure.

22:25:44 punkman: black saturday

22:25:51 asciilifeform: but was hoping to hear some conjecture as to what this could even look like.

22:26:01 mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea what the future looks like.

22:26:39 shinohai: Well Gentleman, I have certainly enjoyed working with you all on trb from the past ~1 year nonetheless.

22:26:49 mod6: we should probably discuss solutions, write a spec of new bitcoin, then implement new bitcoin

22:27:05 mircea_popescu: mod6 part of the problem here is that

22:27:08 mircea_popescu: !s perimeter

22:27:09 assbot: 23 results for 'perimeter' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=perimeter

22:27:09 *: danielpbarron would have been more surprised if either 1) bitcoin didn't fail or 2) bitcoin didn't become some sort of one world government causing monster of a thing

22:27:11 mod6: shinohai: o7

22:27:18 asciilifeform: punkman: if you want a dollar cardano, call up ft meade and rsa co., they will happily sell it to you today!

22:27:21 mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure we actually took a single walk around the whole item

22:27:47 punkman: asciilifeform: I'm assuming cardano could also do 'p' one day

22:28:13 punkman: you said you need USD for rent, thus my question

22:28:17 mircea_popescu: ahh where's that dwarves oglaf.

22:28:37 asciilifeform: punkman: i have no intention of partaking in dollar anything, beyond what is required to pay my bills, as anon slave.

22:28:50 mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/obituator/

22:28:51 assbot: The Obituator ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8w27T )

22:29:22 mod6: mircea_popescu: noted. ya, we need to get our heads around this thing.

22:29:49 *: asciilifeform took 'walk around whoe item.'

22:29:55 asciilifeform: what of it.

22:29:57 mod6: what did you see?

22:30:27 asciilifeform: oodles of broken?

22:30:37 mircea_popescu: mod6 even if - and consider i'm speaking of a purely cartoon view of reality, merely for illustration purposes - even if trbf "misses the boat" and instead dilligently focuses on fixing satoshi code, and three years later the "winner" of july competition falls on sword that trbf actually fouind and fixed, the relative position of trbf in the world has not suffered one iota.

22:30:43 asciilifeform: i think i described a good bit of it here.

22:30:59 mircea_popescu: so there's really no call for dramatics, in my own mind. gotta do all the work one can as well as one can and see what tomorrow brings.

22:31:15 asciilifeform: l0l fixing satoshi

22:31:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform big difference between "me" and "we" in this point.

22:31:22 asciilifeform: medicine for corpse.

22:31:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fairnuff

22:32:19 mod6: hmm

22:32:39 mircea_popescu: in other the same news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3e98e7c55649dc7423de0eb26630625a/tumblr_mihjrzicaj1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

22:32:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YgmYQr )

22:32:58 asciilifeform: but every computer user knows that a bad schelling point can take generations to dislodge.

22:33:17 mod6: windows 10

22:33:20 asciilifeform: even microshit is not yet gone.

22:33:22 mircea_popescu: well - i thought you didn't like the father pistols, and shouldn't you be thankful this one's dislodging ?

22:33:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now we have no pistol, just bare hands.

22:33:54 mircea_popescu: omaigerd. what the fuck did you expect was going to happen.

22:34:11 mircea_popescu: engineering consistently presents management with two options : a) either shit takes forever or b) well now there's no pistol.

22:34:12 asciilifeform: ~this.

22:34:31 mircea_popescu: of fucking course ? do it faster next time ? what ? either you take shorter than there's time or longer. tnd.

22:35:15 asciilifeform: except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin...

22:35:34 mircea_popescu: lol that'd be pretty sad.

22:35:41 mod6: srsly

22:36:17 mod6: i need a soda.

22:36:42 asciilifeform: what's sad is also that the observables from my console are only with great difficulty distinguishable from above scenario.

22:36:57 mircea_popescu: o.O

22:36:59 mircea_popescu: what, seriously ?

22:37:17 asciilifeform: well mircea_popescu , what do you think they would do?

22:37:27 asciilifeform: ~not~ slowly sell it?

22:37:51 mircea_popescu: i have nfi. my money'd be on something stupid, really.

22:38:00 asciilifeform: such as?

22:39:19 mircea_popescu: i dunno... trade it for ethereum. support what's the fatass' name, with the "consensus" bullcrap ? huey something ?

22:43:36 asciilifeform: and trading for usd is better?

22:44:06 mircea_popescu: looky : i said divesting, and you're not going to obtain clarification or further infos about it no matter how it gets turned around.

22:44:20 asciilifeform: wasn't asking for.

22:44:43 asciilifeform: besides the manometer speaks for itself.

22:44:50 mircea_popescu: well maybe not deliberately, but yes.

22:46:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does know what it is called when a king divests, though.

22:47:16 mircea_popescu: what ?

22:47:24 asciilifeform: abdication?

22:47:41 mircea_popescu: eh for crying out loud. so what, i can only buy, in your model ? or not even ?

22:48:10 asciilifeform: nah mircea_popescu is doing precisely the logical thing.

22:48:56 asciilifeform: which i am trying to derive the implications of.

22:49:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278490 @ 0.00055084 = 153.4034 BTC [-] {16}

22:50:25 asciilifeform: one of which seems to me, to be the conclusion that anyone with btc is bagholder.

22:50:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208821 @ 0.00054647 = 114.1144 BTC [-] {11}

22:51:11 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423335 << it begins?

22:51:11 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 22:49:51; assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278490 @ 0.00055084 = 153.4034 BTC [-] {16}

22:52:21 mircea_popescu: well yes, in principle anyone left holding "a very slow, unreliable and expensive visa run by idiots" is definitionally a bagholder.

22:52:26 mircea_popescu: this of course has ~nothing to do with me.

22:53:41 asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu know the 'blue eyes puzzle' ?

22:53:50 mircea_popescu: howssat ?

22:53:55 assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.00020901 = 2.0901 BTC [+] {2}

22:53:55 asciilifeform: old lulzy maths riddle

22:54:09 asciilifeform: ;;google blue eyes suicide

22:54:10 gribble: Across Five Aprils - Blue Eyed Suicide - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAlZWnkUc4; across five aprils-blue eyed suicide - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Njk26wIM0E; ACROSS FIVE APRILS LYRICS - Blue Eyed Suicide - PLyrics.com: http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/acrossfiveaprils/blueeyedsuicide.html

22:54:16 asciilifeform: Hm

22:54:58 asciilifeform: http://puzzling.stackexchange.com/a/28196

22:54:59 assbot: The origin of the blue eyes puzzle - Puzzling Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8x1Fd )

22:55:06 BingoBoingo: https://xkcd.com/solution.html

22:55:07 assbot: Blue Eyes - The Hardest Logic Puzzle in the World - Solution ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8x4kj )

22:55:17 asciilifeform: ^ closest to the version i was taught.

22:55:33 asciilifeform: (by - believe or not - brin the elder)

22:56:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i prefer the sultanic one, with the dead chx, moar.

22:56:28 BingoBoingo: lol

22:56:29 punkman: ;;ticker --market all

22:56:38 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 402.55, vol: 16883.73896565 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 405.499, vol: 9116.71013 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 400.97, vol: 45936.99430123 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.737739, vol: 63957.52380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 397.02, vol: 4962.96713209 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 399.92364, vol: 189.31492388 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

22:56:40 BingoBoingo: ;;more punkman

22:56:40 gribble: 406.194456093

22:57:03 asciilifeform: ^ hitler must be buyin'.

22:57:51 asciilifeform: so yes, sultan only told the cuckolds what they already knew...!

22:59:27 asciilifeform: brin's version had h cuckolds grow horns, which only ~other blokes~ could see.

22:59:35 asciilifeform: imho more elegant.

22:59:49 asciilifeform: but logically == to the linked ver.

23:06:36 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.13729319 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b128

23:14:46 mircea_popescu: ah the recursive "it must be me too then"

23:22:48 mircea_popescu: !up CrazyTruthYakDDS

23:23:27 CrazyTruthYakDDS: thanks; was seeing if you had anything on your blog about ETH; seems like major pump and dump to me

23:23:59 CrazyTruthYakDDS: what i saw was portrait of an adult woman :)

23:27:12 mircea_popescu: ;;google site:fraudsters.com eth

23:27:13 gribble: The importance of backups, from the other side. on fraudsters - A blog ...: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-importance-of-backups-from-the-other-side/

23:27:19 mircea_popescu: apparently not ? o.O

23:27:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, major pump and dump. it's in the logs if not on fraudsters./

23:27:57 CrazyTruthYakDDS: oh the logs, forgot about those duh :P

23:28:20 CrazyTruthYakDDS: just find it hilarious everyone is screaming ETH and that BTC is dead

23:28:30 CrazyTruthYakDDS: since oh you can't use the blockchain for coffee purchase

23:28:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1423367 << aha! in brin's ver, it was a traveller, who didnt like the food, and before packing up, spitefully shouts 'hey guyz! some of you have horns!'

23:28:36 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 23:14:46; mircea_popescu: ah the recursive "it must be me too then"

23:29:53 asciilifeform: CrazyTruthYakDDS: see also:

23:29:59 asciilifeform: !s waterfall

23:29:59 assbot: 116 results for 'waterfall' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=waterfall

23:32:59 CrazyTruthYakDDS: ty i will look; i feel ETH is play for some BTC holders to pump and dump to more BTC :)

23:33:46 kakobrekla: i shorted eth at 0.0295

23:36:30 CrazyTruthYakDDS: in 3 months, eth has gone from 30m to close to a billion

23:36:46 CrazyTruthYakDDS: and the only real "value" people have pushed is that microsoft azure is using it as an api

23:37:26 CrazyTruthYakDDS: which is meaningless, i am sure microsoft also has api tools to work with BTC as well

23:37:53 CrazyTruthYakDDS: hell, factom is better, as it is at least taking advantage of the BTC blockchain/security if i am not mistaken

23:37:57 CrazyTruthYakDDS: sort of like counterparty did

23:47:01 shinohai: ;;blocks

23:47:02 gribble: 401337

23:54:18 BingoBoingo: !up CrazyTruthYakDDS