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Transcript for 05-04-2016, 242 lines:

00:05:00 punkman: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/08/tantrums_as_sta.html

00:05:02 assbot: Tantrums as Status Symbols - Marginal REVOLUTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1RV1PJe )

13:36:00 kakobrekla: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/11/gay-talese-the-voyeurs-motel

13:36:01 assbot: The Voyeur’s Motel - The New Yorker ... ( http://bit.ly/203Eqbw )

13:45:50 punkman: that's pretty cool

15:08:05 fluffypony: 'the obese fellow who checked in with a much younger man and then dressed him up in a furry costume with horns, saying, “You are heavenly; I have never seen a more beautiful sheep-boy.”'

15:08:11 fluffypony: well there's that :-P

15:53:29 jurov: nencrypted http is dead http://arxiv.org/abs/1602.07128

15:53:31 assbot: [1602.07128] Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCemCv )

15:53:35 jurov: *unencrypted

16:54:53 kakobrekla: https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/t31.0-8/12885888_10153905947190700_5062386587518612961_o.jpg

16:54:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SNzch3 )

17:03:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] [PAID] 250,000.00000000 BTC to 500`000`000 shares, 50000 satoshi per share

17:03:45 kakobrekla: whut

17:04:51 TomServo: S.MPOE no longer listed on mpex.co, or am I blind?

17:05:03 kakobrekla: it seems so

17:10:50 jurov: http://fraudsters.com/2016/mpex-smpoe-closing-statement/

17:10:51 assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) Closing Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RZRm28 )

17:16:34 kakobrekla: > It makes no sense to maintain the pretense < hahaha that combo of words.

17:16:53 kakobrekla: what is this, pretending sanity ?ž

17:17:57 kakobrekla: i guess the shame of losing all trading volume after bitbet fiasco was too much to bear

17:18:42 asciilifeform: l0l megatonne of coin now in circulation again.

17:18:53 kakobrekla: nah

17:19:06 asciilifeform: how not ?

17:19:38 kakobrekla: he is owning 99%+ of that

17:19:51 asciilifeform: this is conjecture afaik.

17:20:17 kakobrekla: like ufos and mining konspiraci sure

17:22:52 punkman: "The practice has been that MPEx became ever less transparent. By now its opacity verges on the ridiculous. " myeah

17:23:39 kakobrekla: i dont see the problem, mp the man when it comes to secret evidence in secret court

17:23:53 kakobrekla: why is this suddenly a problem?

17:24:24 *: kakobrekla would be delighted to know

17:25:36 asciilifeform: i have nfi! ask him ?

17:26:09 kakobrekla: afaik dead people have the nasty habit of not answering questions

17:26:37 asciilifeform: fella's alive'n'kicking

17:27:17 kakobrekla: wouldnt know

17:29:25 kakobrekla: at any rate, he is inconsistent as any fiat derp so his answers have a weight of 0

17:29:59 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: for a subj with 'weight of 0' it seems to still take up a good bit of space in kakobrekla's head ?

17:30:14 kakobrekla: but if someone worthwhile figures out a theory id be glad to lissen

17:30:18 PeterL: jurov: how soon will s.mpoe changes be reflected in coinbr?

17:30:37 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: you were chums with him long before i found you lot, you oughta know something ?

17:30:46 jurov: PeterL: the dividend about a minute ago?

17:31:11 PeterL: aha, awesome, thanks!

17:31:59 kakobrekla: asciilifeform some things i know, some things i theorize about - none of those things seem to be treated with appropriate attitude so why bother

17:32:37 kakobrekla: but i am potentially interested of other peoples thoughts, curious mind i guess

17:33:23 kakobrekla: bbl

17:37:43 jurov: Actually seeing the coin movement will be easy, we'll see how many pebbles will fly out of mircea's blender

17:39:08 jurov: (that was reference to kako's rating in the New True WOT)

17:46:31 fluffypony: the New True WOT?

17:46:35 fluffypony: there's another one?

17:47:22 *: fluffypony can't keep up with the cool kids nowadays

17:48:51 jurov: fluffypony: #t-a forked assbot wot and it's impelmented in deedbot

17:48:57 fluffypony: ah

17:49:10 fluffypony: what's this tmsr thing, excuse my ignorance?

17:49:24 asciilifeform: !s tmsr

17:49:24 assbot: 224 results for 'tmsr' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tmsr

17:49:43 fluffypony: but I need to be spoonfed

17:50:22 fluffypony: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/tmsr

17:50:24 assbot: tmsr [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1XYs04a )

17:50:25 fluffypony: found it

18:06:40 kakobrekla: lol. reading that tmsr wiki page i find the discrepancy between the theoretical and the applied sanity hilarious.

18:06:57 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: hm?

18:08:46 kakobrekla: doing sane this, doing sane that, while insanity going off the charts. the best explanation would be the analogue gauge has blown.

18:13:58 punkman: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-05/iceland-pm-resigns-following-protests-over-offshore-investments

18:14:00 assbot: Iceland PM Resigns Following Protests Over Offshore Investments - Bloomberg ... ( http://bit.ly/1qonCAb )

18:14:17 kakobrekla: this is related to the leak?

18:14:23 punkman: yeah

18:17:16 nubbins`: can't wait to see if any .ca folk get burned

18:20:45 kakobrekla: jurov what rating is that ?

18:21:12 kakobrekla: im dont get it

18:21:21 kakobrekla: -m

18:21:24 jurov: <deedbot> mircea_popescu updated rating of kakobrekla from 5 to -5 << Cap'n of industree, borrowed my blender, then decided to try and make gravel and... it just didn't work out!

18:21:36 kakobrekla: hahaha

18:22:18 nubbins`: heh

18:22:31 nubbins`: talk about obsessed

18:22:34 kakobrekla: http://oglaf.com/delusionist/

18:22:35 assbot: Delusionist ... ( http://bit.ly/1qoptF3 )

18:22:39 kakobrekla: relevant

18:22:51 nubbins`: i bet mp's managed to work me into a blag post or two as wekk

18:22:58 nubbins`: *well

18:24:42 kakobrekla: the only thing that was his was the mistake he made. apart from that it was ours or mine. the pretense on this dude, too bad it doesnt have any market value.

18:24:50 nubbins`: yeah

18:25:59 nubbins`: mpex looking deader than havelol these days

18:26:27 kakobrekla: how do we say, mega unsurprise ?

18:26:50 nubbins`: i guess selling mpoe is one way to avoid the shame of having to publish the financials showing the absolute tanking

18:26:58 PeterL: just about nothing left there, s.mg had what, 1 btc profit so far with 8000 btc investment?

18:27:15 punkman: f.mpif :P

18:27:34 nubbins`: with s.mpoe erased w/o a parting financial statement, and with mp vanishing into a log-less channel, he could almost wait a couple months and then start the scamtrain going again

18:27:39 PeterL: is f.mpif even in the black? seems all they do is lose a few bitcents on bbet

18:27:54 PeterL: I guess bitbet shutting down is actually a good thing for f.mpif

18:28:01 nubbins`: PeterL the only MPIF "profit center" i know of is hanbot's, and she's done nothing but lose money

18:28:28 kakobrekla: bitbet shutting down is a good thing, period.

18:28:31 nubbins`: her blog is pretty much just a record of her failures at managing funds

18:28:35 jurov: i have a PC too, to scalp mpif

18:28:37 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: waiwut

18:28:40 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: how's that

18:28:43 punkman: hmm the DERPs aren't on btalpha?

18:28:48 PeterL: nubbins` they will have a log, in like two weeks or something

18:28:50 jurov: would be funny if that ends up most profitable :D

18:28:53 nubbins`: PeterL (TM)?

18:29:15 asciilifeform: nubbins`: the log-less channel is false

18:29:39 asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you want log, glyf.org/h/t-a (temporary, by phf, there is to be a more elaborate log soon)

18:29:49 kakobrekla: asciilifeform well perhaps not shutting down but making the noise and getting delisted.

18:31:32 kakobrekla: if nothing else its driving religious nuts out of my life and business. this in priceless.

18:31:48 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what will you do with your new free time ?

18:32:00 kakobrekla: enjoy life, theres only so much of it.

18:32:24 asciilifeform: what kind of things does kakobrekla like to enjoy ?

18:33:58 kakobrekla: today i went out biking and then i encountered a field of primroses. i picked a bag of those - they are good to put in the salad and making tea.

18:34:23 asciilifeform: neato

18:34:42 punkman: /me went biking too and picked a bag of cheeses

18:35:01 punkman: good for salad, not tea

18:35:28 kakobrekla: to be more specific and not poison a fella: only flowers are picked and used.

18:37:02 kakobrekla: they are sweet to eat btw

18:37:36 punkman: haven't tried

18:38:19 punkman: kakobrekla: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primula_vulgaris this one?

18:38:21 assbot: Primula vulgaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1qosp4H )

18:38:53 kakobrekla: yes thats the one. you can blow in them and they make a trumpet sound too.

18:39:26 kakobrekla: or have them fresh in the salad, or dry them and make tea. good for regulating sleep.

18:40:15 punkman: I had pickled samphire the other day, was pretty good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crithmum )

18:40:28 kakobrekla: only the yellow ones grow naturally here but i guess other colors would work too.

18:41:32 kakobrekla: whats it used for ?

18:41:39 kakobrekla: punkman ^^

18:41:43 *: kakobrekla brb

18:42:52 nubbins`: i haven't been on my bike since last summer

18:43:03 nubbins`: tried winter cycling one year, 0/10 would not repeat in this city

18:43:18 punkman: never saw it for sale before, guess it's not in fashion, apparently they use it fresh in salads or pickled

18:44:33 punkman: crunchy/chewey texture, lemon-y slightly spicy

18:45:42 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mississippi-service-denial-lgbt-couples-1.3521595 i dgaf enough to actually track down the text of the legislation, but i'd love for some sharia law proponent to get a job at the DMV and start denying license renewals to infidels

18:45:43 assbot: Mississippi governor signs law allowing service denial to gay couples - World - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1RM0fqP )

18:59:27 *: nubbins` recommends everyone should have a book of edible wild plants that grow in their region

19:02:59 punkman: pretty sure the locals here discovered and ate anything even remotely edible during ww2 but I've not come across any good books yet

19:07:05 kakobrekla: afaik the knowledge of various edible tubers got lost after the ww as people really got tired of them in the period

19:08:57 kakobrekla: https://github.com/blog/2144-gpg-signature-verification

19:08:58 assbot: GPG signature verification · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1RM3O08 )

19:09:24 punkman: great success

19:09:46 kakobrekla: > You can upload your GPG keys by visiting the keys settings page.

19:09:47 kakobrekla: wait whut

19:10:46 kakobrekla: not sure if they want me to upload private or public key ?!

19:11:49 kakobrekla: its public i gather

19:11:53 kakobrekla: sheesh

19:12:03 punkman: yeah public only

19:31:36 kakobrekla: but can you get actual signature or they just claim the authenticity?

19:37:09 punkman: if you clone the repo you get the sigs

19:37:55 asciilifeform: we had this thread

19:39:32 kakobrekla: here? about the feature released today?

19:40:20 asciilifeform: the git signing thing is old

19:40:48 asciilifeform: the only new bit appears to be a built-in display thing in shithub

19:41:12 kakobrekla: ah right. i guess i got confused.

19:41:18 asciilifeform: still lulzy

19:41:29 asciilifeform: shithub cribs from trb...

19:43:04 kakobrekla: perhaps it does, perhaps it doesnt.

19:44:05 kakobrekla: perhaps is like saying ti stole ic tech from fairchild. perhaps the other way around. perhaps none of that.

19:44:13 asciilifeform: perhaps cosmic rays ahahaha.

19:45:23 kakobrekla: or comic rays. i can readily see those.

19:45:53 asciilifeform: expose a blank hdd to cosmic rays, long enough, and it will tend to fill itself with bastardized versions of our work, aha!

19:46:27 kakobrekla: well, it was called the 'gang of noise' wasnt it?

19:46:45 asciilifeform: waiwut

19:46:51 kakobrekla: !s gang noise

19:46:52 assbot: 11 results for 'gang noise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gang+noise

19:48:14 asciilifeform: ah

19:50:03 kakobrekla: anyway you seriously think the github tags have anything to do with v?

19:51:04 asciilifeform: yes?

19:52:10 kakobrekla: to me this is in line with 'plastic car toys for kids (those things kids can sit in and pedal forward) manufactures seriously follow automotive industry developments"

19:52:33 kakobrekla: puh-lease.

19:53:02 asciilifeform: which is the toy car in the analogy ?

19:54:11 kakobrekla: lol!

19:54:41 asciilifeform: no, i would like to hear what kakobrekla actually thinks. it is why i'm still here.

19:57:47 kakobrekla: fine fine, the toy car is the github.

19:59:42 asciilifeform: v is not even a car. it is a plank with a rusty nail. but will take you to such places!111

20:01:24 kakobrekla: github singing thing was before v right?

20:02:14 kakobrekla: the idea that v made github manifest a button that was maybe suggested by a ux/ui guy ... is funny.

20:09:32 kakobrekla: but i get you will prefer an explanation in the style of mp, where tmsr is accredited for good weather if it happens to be so.

20:12:01 jurov: Whatever proves "the supremacy of the Republic over all other groups and persons", goes.

20:12:33 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i'm not mp, if you need him you know where to find him...

20:13:35 kakobrekla: i dun dig graves

20:14:17 jurov: asciilifeform: he asked you, not mp, why do you think github was inspired by v or by phf's site

20:14:37 jurov: and i'm curious why you think it, too

20:14:52 asciilifeform: jurov: the git pgp thing existed for ages (afaik ~nobody but linus used it). i was thinking of the gui widget.

20:15:00 asciilifeform: why ~now~ and not before.

20:15:45 asciilifeform: if you want to answer 'for no good reason at all, satan decreed that it happen today' go ahead, if it pleases you.

20:16:31 jurov: but you actually did not answer either

20:17:42 asciilifeform: i answered.

20:17:58 asciilifeform: 'because it came after.'

20:18:12 jurov: github has far bigger problem with everyone 'quantuminserting' it recently than some 'plank with a rusty nail' competition

20:18:22 jurov: don't you think?

20:19:51 asciilifeform: and this problem was not had last year ?

20:20:16 jurov: it only *started* late last year

20:21:00 jurov: actually, chinese mitm happened this january

20:21:40 asciilifeform: american mitm - for years

20:22:24 asciilifeform: and at any rate, how does the web-based thing help ? mitm will just as well spoof the little green mark 'verified!'

20:22:54 jurov: it's not there to help

20:23:03 asciilifeform: aha.

20:23:03 jurov: except to feel better

20:23:13 asciilifeform: it is there to create the illusion.

20:24:19 jurov: you see - it's so far removed from actual 'v' so that even if there was some causation, does not mean anything

20:25:26 adlai: ~git~ has supported pgp for a while, but it is quite a nuisance to hand-verify (rather than trust "porcelain" tools such as `git tag -v`)

20:26:24 asciilifeform: adlai: not only this, but there was fundamentally unsigned and unsignable meta-information in there.

21:17:59 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2016#1443487 < this is compelling, however not sufficient. but if it makes you feel better, aite. faith is a powerful thing.

21:17:59 assbot: Logged on 05-04-2016 20:17:58; asciilifeform: 'because it came after.'

21:18:16 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2016#1443501 < care to spill details ?

21:18:16 assbot: Logged on 05-04-2016 20:26:24; asciilifeform: adlai: not only this, but there was fundamentally unsigned and unsignable meta-information in there.

21:18:40 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: git src is available, go, read.

21:19:03 kakobrekla: thought you might summarize it

21:19:34 asciilifeform: summary would be, approx, that if it signed ALL matter that impacts the tree, it would look PRECISELY like v. it does not look like v.

21:20:15 adlai: it signs the tree hash, which does "cover" the entire tree

21:21:42 asciilifeform: there is also a separate question of ~how~ 'it signs'

21:21:49 asciilifeform: my understanding is that it is not airgap-friendly.

21:22:47 adlai: it most certainly is not. you'd have to use the "plumbing" to produce porcelain-readable signatures.

21:23:14 adlai: (it expects the signing keyring to live on the same box)

21:23:20 asciilifeform: aha.

21:23:50 adlai: nobody said git was perfect, it's just good enough for the kernel!

21:24:01 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2016#1443465 < actually i find this insulting to nailed plank

21:24:01 assbot: Logged on 05-04-2016 19:50:03; kakobrekla: anyway you seriously think the github tags have anything to do with v?

21:25:16 *: adlai still maintains that V would at least benefit from studying darcs, if not outright stealing their "patch theory" model

21:25:24 asciilifeform: adlai: illustrate ?

21:25:36 asciilifeform: in particular re the patch theory

21:26:48 adlai: unfortunately, i've never used darcs beyond typing in commands from www. but i gather that they have struggled with the whole business of how to merge conflicting patches for years; and their patches are, similar to V, just plaintext patches; although i don't think their patches include checksums of each file.

21:27:11 asciilifeform: adlai: this'd be a major difference

21:27:16 asciilifeform: they CAN merge

21:27:19 asciilifeform: we - can NOT.

21:27:39 adlai: for those who love asciified mathematics (where's mircea when you need him!) - http://darcs.net/Theory/GaneshPatchAlgebra

21:27:40 assbot: Darcs - Theory/GaneshPatchAlgebra ... ( http://bit.ly/22ayoFF )

21:27:53 asciilifeform: just like rabbit can eat own shit, while man - generally - cannot.

21:28:26 adlai: "That list and the archives are currently dead." nuff said.

21:30:06 asciilifeform: adlai: what, in particular, do you think ought to be in v , from the darcs link ?

21:30:20 asciilifeform: i think i have explained well why i do not believe in merging.

21:30:26 asciilifeform: do you disagree ?

21:31:46 *: adlai digs up asciilifeform's explanation before [dis]agreeing

21:32:56 adlai: although ultimately, unless you write your own 'g' (or was it 'p'? or both!?), this is all a fancy farce.

21:33:08 asciilifeform: adlai: hm?

21:33:12 adlai: hitler finds your anus, no matter how many fig leaves you drape over it.

21:33:36 asciilifeform: adlai: more specifically ?

21:34:15 adlai: even with V, you're trusting a pgp implementation; and a compiler; and an OS, and hardware, and.... at some point, you must stop verifying, and start praying.

21:34:43 adlai: maybe not to a deity, maybe just to trusted friends.

21:35:10 adlai: (and to the improbability of every single device, and all software, being crafted specifically to ensnare ~you~)

21:37:21 asciilifeform: adlai: realize, this is equivalent to 'why bother to wipe my arse, everything's covered in microbes anyway'

21:37:56 adlai: i'd say that V is soap, but this doesn't mean you have to use it if you didn't piss on your hands.

21:38:45 *: adlai has a meatwot friend - his 'sensei' at baduk - who washes hands ~before~ peeing, because he "knows where it's been, but the hands go all over the place"

21:41:59 jurov: adlai: 'v' is about unambiguous proving an origin of some artifact

21:42:22 jurov: it does not solve trust problems per se, no technology does

21:45:52 adlai: i guess v has less room in the [fantasy] world where all software 'fits in head' of the computer's sole 'operator'

21:49:15 kakobrekla: good news for ascii it seems http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-second-progress-report#comment-8398

21:49:16 assbot: BitBet receivership second progress report | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/22aAUeY )