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Transcript for 05-05-2015, 1643 lines:

00:00:18 mircea_popescu: mod6> So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. << you hear that alf ?

00:00:30 mircea_popescu: and i thought i was retarded.

00:01:18 mircea_popescu: trinque that's the "innovation" << exactly. and inasmuch as the us tort system is insane, this is both unavoidable and in a sense useful. but this doesn't mean uber makes any sense, anymore than shaving head in women makes sense. "but she's got lice" "well in THAT case"

00:02:27 trinque: hah indeed

00:03:54 trinque: mircea_popescu: speaking of women, I've mused before about a service that handles all financial and bureaucratic considerations for an average american

00:04:11 trinque: you give it your paychecks, it makes sure your taxes are done, all that, and gives you an allowance

00:09:27 mircea_popescu: tits app ?

00:09:56 mircea_popescu: i imagine Pierre_Rochard 's thing is actulaly very close to that. prolly bestwork as a wrapper on it

00:20:16 trinque: mircea_popescu: looks interesting; this is for maintaining and publishing your books?

00:20:31 trinque: looks like as a business, but similar needs

00:20:46 mircea_popescu: you mean Pierre_Rochard s thing ?

00:20:48 trinque: yeah

00:21:09 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: trinque yup that’s right up my alley

00:21:10 mircea_popescu: i dunno, he's working on it. but basically yeah, should be a web/bitcoin interface for accounting'

00:21:47 Pierre_Rochard: I have a “personal finance” chart of accounts and a “service business” chart of accounts, they’re CSVs that are easy to customize

00:22:25 trinque: Pierre_Rochard: very cool; I think americans would pay for a managed version of this

00:22:33 trinque: nobody wants to do their damn taxes, or pay their own rent

00:22:43 trinque: they just want to be given an allowance by dad after everything's handled

00:23:10 trinque: I'm not sure there's enough allowance left to allow sufficient margin for the accounting service

00:23:17 trinque: americans are after all mostly poor

00:23:18 mircea_popescu: should be a very interesting world once the us is poor and east/central asia ric

00:23:27 Pierre_Rochard: trinque: agreed, I’m thinking I’ll have a source code subscription for the hacker types, and a hosted treasury concierge for the lazy/busy

00:23:39 trinque: Pierre_Rochard: right on

00:23:40 Pierre_Rochard: yeah this isn’t for poor people

00:23:52 Pierre_Rochard: poor people don’t have money problems, they have lack of money problems

00:23:59 trinque: !b 2

00:24:00 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09J2KJ0.txt )

00:24:58 mircea_popescu: in other news, shoe problems http://40.media.tumblr.com/996bce3d7cadf68f3dcb6cbca5d36ca5/tumblr_n1kzmtoDiA1sx2zfgo4_r1_1280.jpg

00:24:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwg2Y )

00:25:04 Pierre_Rochard: asians understand the value of good accounting, went to school with many of them

00:25:15 mod6: http://dpaste.com/1NHSMPB.txt << patched into bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE, sig looks good, although the hash's didn't match what the filename was changed to on btc-dev ml

00:25:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwkjk )

00:25:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00026691 = 8.3276 BTC [-] {2}

00:25:47 mircea_popescu: mod6 iof the hashes don't match you shouldn't generall merge

00:25:52 mircea_popescu: tho i suppose this one's small enough to read

00:26:34 mod6: i wonder if I did something wrong... jurov?

00:26:37 trinque: also mod6 output of a recent genkernel build http://dpaste.com/00XCYJR.txt

00:26:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwA1W )

00:26:45 trinque: maybe relevant to your barf message

00:27:40 mod6: these are the commands I ran:

00:27:41 mod6: curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_2d219fdd1a0da960be38797566e9c0820df11ce6.patch -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch

00:27:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwKX6 )

00:27:52 mod6: curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_6f320afb2423a2892d89e855829e3915c8b7a170.patch.sig -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch.sig

00:27:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwM14 )

00:31:42 mod6: mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, agreed. I did look it over, and is matching from website as far as I can tell. & byte count is the same.

00:32:09 mod6: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4007 May 5 00:19 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch

00:32:17 mod6: *shrug*

00:33:43 mod6: ... taking gentoo snapshot for 3rd AMI attempt.

00:33:56 danielpbarron: mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.txt

00:33:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuxRG3 )

00:35:05 mod6: yep, got that too... but check the sha256's of the dl'd patch files, see if they match the checksums that the ml inserted into the file name.

00:35:35 mod6: if not, see if they came out same as mine from my dpaste

00:37:14 danielpbarron: same as yours

00:37:20 mod6: s/files/and sig files/

00:37:29 danielpbarron: i'm not sure it's supposed to come out the same as the thing that gets shoved into the filename

00:37:33 mod6: ok gotcha. just need some clairification from jurov on that.

00:37:46 danielpbarron: it should match whatever hash ascii referenced in his signed email message though

00:38:00 mod6: i thought it /was/ supposed to be the same. but, maybe im just derp derperton tonight.

00:38:54 mod6: The hash referenced inthe email was for the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz tarball, which is correct.

00:39:31 danielpbarron: the patch.sig is by ascii's key, so it shouldn't matter what it hashes to or what btc-dev says

00:39:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 50000 @ 0.00009 = 4.5 BTC [-]

00:39:59 mod6: yeah, shoudn't being the key word there; in my mind, it certainly should match.

00:40:03 mod6: otherwise, why do it?

00:40:21 mod6: what purpose would it serve?

00:40:30 danielpbarron: i do not know

00:40:33 mod6: :]

00:41:08 danielpbarron: to make it a pain in the ass to verify any of this stuff; to set the bar high so as to keep out the children

00:42:20 mod6: sweet, new ami complete.

00:42:25 *: mod6 builds new instance with AMI

00:47:07 danielpbarron: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev The system will rename the patch and add unique identifier (SHA-1 hash of the contents) to the filename, both in the outgoing email and in the archives. Any additional signatures must refer to this received filename including the hash.

00:47:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuzXG7 )

00:48:08 danielpbarron: there's yer answer: it's sha1; not sha256

00:48:13 danielpbarron: checks out on my end

00:49:20 mod6: ah sha1, see, derp derperton

00:49:32 mod6: mine matches just fine too. thx for digging that up.

00:49:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.00026447 = 5.1439 BTC [-]

00:52:04 mod6: meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt

00:52:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuAS9t )

00:52:20 mod6: i'll post my build steps.

00:53:54 decimation: http://www.itworld.com/article/2917587/open-source-tools/singapores-prime-minister-shares-his-c-sudoku-solver-code.html < imagine a us politician releasing a C++ sudoku solver

00:53:55 assbot: Singapore’s prime minister shares his C++ Sudoku solver code | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuBbBe )

00:55:56 trinque: not bad

01:00:47 mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/build-stage3-notes.txt << build notes

01:00:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCjon )

01:01:15 mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/kernel-config-20150503 << kernel config

01:01:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCosg )

01:02:37 trinque: nicely done

01:02:42 trinque: mod6: boots?

01:03:12 mod6: no fails 1/2 checks, kernel panic'd

01:04:15 trinque: ah

01:04:16 mod6: check the last 3 lines of this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt

01:04:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCMXH )

01:04:45 trinque: did you try that rootfstype=ext4 ?

01:04:51 trinque: on the kernel command line

01:05:02 mod6: that's for the kernel config right?

01:06:04 mod6: i had build this kernel yesterday. i don't see anything about "ROOTSTYPE" in my config that I used... (posted above)

01:06:14 mod6: i guess I can rebuild again and stick that in there.

01:06:43 trinque: for the kernel boot parameters provided by the bootloader, might be via this thing https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/UserProvidedKernels.html

01:06:44 assbot: PV-GRUB - Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuDcND )

01:08:48 mod6: oh huh.

01:09:04 mod6: i thought that one thing said that I didn't need Grub unless i was using hvm or whatever.

01:09:10 mod6: i try it with that...

01:14:51 asciilifeform: mod6: you have an ext4 rootfs dontcha.

01:14:59 asciilifeform: mod6: either 1) don't or 2) build ext4 into the kernel

01:15:54 trinque: (and not as a module)

01:16:52 asciilifeform: aha

01:18:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46345 @ 0.00026111 = 12.1011 BTC [-] {2}

01:19:24 danielpbarron: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34uu02/why_increasing_the_max_block_size_is_urgent_gavin/cqycy4h "Rather, the only push you see against larger blocks come from strong advocates of personal autonomy and decenteralization, like Peter Todd; or the MPOE crowd (regardless of what you might think about them, they wouldn't be any to bend to commercial or government interests)."

01:19:25 assbot: nullc comments on Why increasing the max block size is urgent | Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuFigz )

01:19:31 *: asciilifeform started valgrindized run of thermonuked-orphanage tester

01:20:11 asciilifeform: is anyone still having checksum problems ?

01:21:46 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> tho i suppose this one's small enough to read << they should ALL be small enough to read.

01:21:57 asciilifeform: no exceptions.

01:25:36 asciilifeform: <mod6> meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again << that's not a real kernel panic, again. that is a box that can't read its rootfs

01:25:57 asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere

01:27:03 asciilifeform: sha512(asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch) == 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78

01:27:10 asciilifeform: please say if you got something else.

01:27:39 asciilifeform: jurov: can we have less mutilation (file names?) plz ?

01:27:52 asciilifeform: i much prefer systems where what i put in, is what ends up coming out.

01:28:00 asciilifeform: unless explicitly asked otherwise.

01:31:27 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? << 'airbnb', 'uber', etc. fill a direly urgent market niche in usa - 'orcish' favour-style services for folks with no friends. it would take a very strong chance of being busted, for folks to quit using these. (consider what is the penalty for, e.g., smoking weed - does it deter?)

01:31:41 danielpbarron: !up livegnik

01:31:52 livegnik: Thank you Daniel! Hi everyone.

01:32:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu> sort-of like impromptu dentistry << big business in the turd world (of which usa is properly considered - a part)

01:32:22 livegnik: I'm Tim Pastoor, co-founder of Identifi. I'm just the business developer who's working on the project. Sirius is the real dev in there.

01:32:31 mod6: ok bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 + Orphanage Nuke is running with `nmon -f -s3` & `vmstat 1`, so we should have some good metrics when complete.

01:33:01 danielpbarron: "CEO & Co-Founder of Identifi -- Collaborating on an Open Source Protocol for Sending Trust over the Internet; Advancing the Wild Wild Web into a Web of Trust."

01:33:17 *: asciilifeform actually used 'uber' for the first - and so far, only time - getting back from airport after c3

01:33:28 livegnik: I didn't know in what other way to describe it in ~140 characters. Open for suggestions / feedback anytime :)

01:33:34 mod6: asciilifeform:

01:33:35 mod6: # sha512sum asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch

01:33:36 mod6: 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch

01:33:55 mod6: it's fine, I just didn't realize that in the filename, the turdolator uses SHA1

01:33:56 asciilifeform: <trinque> poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected << one of the major brainmelters for me, when i went to c3, was that the gurlz who serviced the hotel rooms, were pretty

01:34:01 asciilifeform: this is unheard of in usa

01:34:14 trinque: asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig

01:34:35 asciilifeform: <trinque> end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility << this is part of it, but the major profit comes from de-institutializing - de-usgizing - the cabbies and hotels

01:34:59 asciilifeform: in the sese that random schmuck driving 'uber' has no paperwork, no pensions, no unemployment insurances, cannot sue for anything, etc.

01:35:09 trinque: asciilifeform: hm yeah, "this is so much better!" because it's not wearing lead shoes

01:35:11 mod6: I should re-iterate that I'm still waiting on a pogo to come to me...so this v0.5.3.1+OrphanageNuke test is running on AWS deb6 (amd64)

01:35:14 trinque: makes sense.

01:35:16 asciilifeform: and probably has a day job, so he doesn't need anything like a 'living wage' either

01:36:21 asciilifeform: there will be myriad parasitic waterfalls like 'uber', i expect, which feed upon the difference between what it -actually- costs to do something like driving cab - at butugychag subsistence levels with zero regard for the meatbag's future - and what usgtronic tentacles which masquerade as american firms presently charge.

01:36:50 asciilifeform: (naturally, usg will pocket the bulk of this difference, but such is the nature of muppet war)

01:39:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135400 @ 0.00025545 = 34.5879 BTC [-] {4}

01:40:27 asciilifeform: livegnik: are you familiar with the 'wot' we use here ?

01:43:38 livegnik: I've just bumped into it, thanks to danielpbarron pointing me to it, and that's how I've ended up in here :)

01:44:19 asciilifeform: livegnik: consider telling us what you perceive is the advantage of your product over what you now know is the state of the art.

01:45:35 danielpbarron: livegnik, not sure how much you've already found; here's a good starting point http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/wot_and_reputation

01:45:35 assbot: wot_and_reputation [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMwpI )

01:45:43 livegnik: It's a protocol for identity management for both humans, entities, and machines. It gives the ability to create Sybil-proof WoTs (to the extent that the least trustworthy node added, decides the strength of your security), for almost anything.

01:46:21 asciilifeform: livegnik: what is involved in a 'sybil-proof' wot for machines ?

01:46:34 asciilifeform: or, for that matter, people? (how do you decide what constitutes a person?)

01:46:40 livegnik: Yesterday I've written an extensive comment on Ian Grigg's article about ID issues, especially in combination with the blockchain. It's quite the read, but I think it'll be worth your time, if you want to get a more in-depth view of Identifi:

01:46:41 livegnik: http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001556.html

01:46:42 assbot: Financial Cryptography: The Sum of All Chains - Let's Converge! ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMAFN )

01:47:27 livegnik: asciilifeform: Mostly a whitelist. Whitelisting solves the Sybil. The thing is, whitelisting hasn't been very user-friendly up till now, without the security trade-off.

01:47:40 asciilifeform: whitelist composed by whom? kim jong un ?

01:47:44 asciilifeform: the pope ?

01:47:58 livegnik: asciilifeform: A set of attributes, identifiers. I've extensively elaborated on it in the comment on Ian's article.

01:48:03 livegnik: Might be tl;dr though ...

01:49:05 livegnik: There's no whitepaper atm, so the comment in that article probably explains it best/most thus far.

01:49:19 asciilifeform: try to answer this one compactly, it should be answerable. who composes the whitelist ?

01:49:25 livegnik: Also, you can find the proof-of-concept on GitHub: https://github.com/identifi/identifi

01:49:26 assbot: identifi/identifi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMY7b )

01:49:36 livegnik: The identity to whom the whitelist belongs.

01:49:46 livegnik: Each identity creates it's own whitelist / WoT.

01:50:02 asciilifeform: so your system reduces to 'if you trust 1,001 people who turn out to be sybils, shame on you, you oughta have known better' ?

01:50:37 asciilifeform: this is how existing wots work. but to say that this 'solves sybils' is, at the very least, odd

01:50:43 livegnik: You could put it that way, yes. But it can visualize sybil swarms by showing the few 'real IDs' linking to it.

01:51:02 asciilifeform: what is a 'real id' ?

01:51:30 livegnik: The people you know and trust (for whatever reason) basically, and therefore have verified.

01:51:35 trinque: So we're all the same -- we people are the same as smart contracts, as block chains, etc, and we should be able to make recipe that describes us. We should be able to collect all these things together and make it such that we all look the same. << wtf

01:51:44 trinque: this is written in a haphazard manner

01:52:03 trinque: aside that it just strings together analogies

01:52:10 danielpbarron: !gettrust livegnik

01:52:10 assbot: livegnik is not registered in WoT.

01:52:20 asciilifeform: the text is astonishingly painful to read.

01:53:13 asciilifeform: so far it seems to add up to a 80% re-implementation of the proper wot out of toothpicks and tape.

01:53:18 livegnik: brb

01:53:27 asciilifeform: with a distinct lack of clarity re: what it is all for.

01:53:31 danielpbarron: livegnik, what do you make of this? -> http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=danielpbarron

01:53:32 assbot: WoT Trust - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjNt1e )

01:54:30 trinque: So we can have a "mainnet" can we also have "AliceNet" or "Mynet?" Yes, in theory we can. << this does *not* follow

01:54:56 trinque: insofar as you're saying will computers run and call themselves asscoin if I create an asscoinnet, sure

01:55:17 trinque: considering "what is bitcoin" is called for before calling it fungible with any other *net

01:55:20 trinque: or *coin

01:55:43 trinque: "I mean, they're all blockchain technology."

01:57:44 trinque: livegnik: this "guid" you're reaching for is called a keypair

01:58:04 livegnik: I'll need 10 more minutes, sorry guys.

02:02:16 asciilifeform: !up livegnik

02:12:40 mod6: trinque: where can I add "rootfstype=ext3" or "rootfstype=ext4" to the list of boot params? I don't see anything thing like that in the kernel config -- except where I've already enabled EXT4 and EXT3

02:13:37 mod6: well, i guess I didn't have EXT3 enabled, just: "Use ext4 for ext2/ext3 file systems" under "Filesystems"

02:13:47 mod6: (in `make menuconfig`)

02:17:56 livegnik: I'm back. Sorry for the interruption.

02:18:20 livegnik: asciilifeform: my/Ian's/both our text pain to read?

02:19:19 livegnik: asciilifeform: Hopefully this interview I've done with current partner, before I joined the project, clears up what it could be used for in the 'real' world: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/

02:19:19 assbot: Unbit.nl - Martti Malmi on Bitcoin & Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLRWZL )

02:20:45 livegnik: danielpbarron: I like Bitcoin-OTC, even though I haven't used it myself. I do believe that I grasp the concept itself though.

02:21:38 trinque: livegnik: reading that I'm not clear on what "it" is

02:22:03 trinque: mod6: that parameter is one provided to the kernel at boot

02:22:05 livegnik: trinque: it == Identifi

02:22:20 danielpbarron: "Martti Malmi is a former computer science student from Helsinki University of Technology who nowadays works as a software developer. He is well-known for being the first person to join Satoshi Nakamoto in the development of Bitcoin."

02:22:38 mod6: trinque: from grub??

02:22:45 livegnik: danielpbarron: The main difference between Bitcoin-OTC and Identifi, if I understand correctly, is that the Bitcoin-OTC WoT acts as a WoT-for-all, whereas with Identifi each identity has it's own WoT, and there's no 'general' score.

02:23:04 trinque: mod6: yeah from whatever the bootloader is; there's also a way to build command line (meaning kernel command line) parameters into the kernel itself

02:23:13 mod6: ah, ok.

02:23:16 mod6: thx

02:23:18 trinque: np

02:23:18 danielpbarron: the general score can be ignored for the most part (in the OTC / assbot WoT)

02:23:44 trinque: livegnik: ah I'm looking at the website for that project now

02:24:07 livegnik: I agree that it can be ignored for the most-part, but Identifi doesn't even contain it.

02:24:18 livegnik: trinque: Would that be identifi.org or identi.fi?

02:25:02 danielpbarron: livegnik, do you get the whole L1 L2 thing?

02:25:03 livegnik: The first is a quite shallow explanation of the project, we'll update it within a few months or so (after rounding up the pilot projects, board of advisors, and funding).

02:25:23 livegnik: The latter (http://identi.fi/) is a proto-type of what a front-end COULD look like.

02:25:33 trinque: livegnik: so this is a haxed bitcoin where the payments are instead ratings, yeah?

02:25:47 trinque: livegnik: was looking at everything linked from github

02:25:55 livegnik: danielpbarron: Could you elaborate on the L1 L2 thing for me?

02:26:02 decimation: livegnik: what are you going to use funding for?

02:26:08 livegnik: trinque: Yes, for the most part. And there's no blockchain.

02:26:21 danielpbarron: livegnik, my L1 or "level one" consists of users that I trust (have given a rating) directly

02:26:45 danielpbarron: my L2 "level two" consists of all the users trusted by users in my L1

02:27:11 danielpbarron: so it is like a WoT within a WoT as you might imagine, where each user is a WoT or whatever

02:27:24 livegnik: trinque: There are 2 types of messages: 1.) verifications of identity's identifiers, and 2.) trust ratings ("Alice is a terrific barber!". "Bob is the worst car salesman!", "DID_REPAY_LOAN_ON_TIME", etc.)

02:27:43 livegnik: danielpbarron: Ah, the viewpoints. Capice.

02:27:47 danielpbarron: !up sunbeachbabe

02:28:05 livegnik: danielpbarron: Identifi does the same with the trust ratings, you can set your viewpoint from 0 to infinite.

02:28:08 sunbeachbabe: Lol assbot

02:28:26 danielpbarron: in the real WoT, the max is 2

02:28:59 danielpbarron: what would an L3 consist of? friend of a friend of a friend? no thanks

02:29:07 livegnik: Within Identifi networks the max is infinite, but the proto-type of our front-end hands you the options 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or infinite degree.

02:29:30 livegnik: Well, that info is there. It's up to you to filter.

02:29:33 danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZd_YyFzPD0

02:29:35 assbot: Spaceballs - "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLSLln )

02:29:41 livegnik: ghehe

02:29:43 trinque: danielpbarron: what does that make us?

02:29:46 trinque: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

02:29:48 trinque: ah great movie

02:30:03 decimation: livegnik: what are you going to use your funding to do?

02:30:26 livegnik: decimation: Mainly for further development, in cooperation with our pilot partners.

02:31:03 livegnik: I'm actually not interested in a very high valuation, to be honest, just to be able to pay a few devs to work on this full-time.

02:31:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95296 @ 0.00025239 = 24.0518 BTC [-] {3}

02:32:01 livegnik: The idea for business model for the company we have in mind probably comes closest to Red Hat, without the Enterprise edition.

02:32:25 livegnik: One size that fits all. Additional applications could be ran on-top of the node.

02:32:25 decimation: you get the government to pay you for other people's work?

02:32:41 trinque: !up livegnik

02:32:41 decimation: !up livegnik

02:32:50 livegnik: decimation: Not sure if I understand ...

02:33:05 decimation: what is 'redhat's business model without enterprise'?

02:33:31 livegnik: Services mostly. Helping business who want to integrate Identifi nodes within their existing environments mostly.

02:33:39 livegnik: Mostly.

02:33:47 livegnik: Sorry, 4:33am(sterdam) over here.

02:35:13 trinque: I'd be interested to see an example of that business model working for something that's not a) propped up by VC b) propped up by govt or c) already had a viable consulting business

02:36:17 danielpbarron: heh, Anduck is in your "address book" of ratings

02:36:21 livegnik: trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project full-time. I've actually quit my dayjob for it and am burning my savings.

02:36:27 livegnik: Yep.

02:36:33 danielpbarron: !gettrust assbot Anduck

02:36:33 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -5 via 7 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/

02:36:46 livegnik: Everyone in the Bitcoin-OTC WoT should be in there, if correct. There's a Bitcoin-OTC crawler for Identifi nodes :)

02:37:01 decimation: livegnik: what do you have to offer over properly using gpg?

02:37:03 livegnik: https://github.com/identifi/identifi-crawlers

02:37:04 assbot: identifi/identifi-crawlers · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLThQq )

02:37:47 livegnik: decimation: Well, I guess usability on many fronts mostly. Also, it can be integrated within many existing fields.

02:38:01 danielpbarron: sounds like this idea can be adapted to the gribble/assbot divide problem

02:38:08 livegnik: I'd even dare to predict that this should enable business models like, e.g, a decentralized credit rating agency.

02:38:26 livegnik: What's the gribble/assbot divide problem, if I may?

02:38:34 danielpbarron: the WoT forked

02:38:44 livegnik: Hmm. How did that happen?

02:38:57 danielpbarron: someone mined a block that was too big :p

02:39:02 livegnik: Ah :P

02:39:19 danielpbarron: it's in the log which you should read

02:39:32 livegnik: Identifi is blockchain-agnostic in itself.

02:39:39 livegnik: Got url?

02:40:22 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109240

02:40:22 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 13:15:14; mircea_popescu: gribble went down at some point. this is rare, but whatever, happens. nanotube was also unresponsive. after a few days in this position assbot got enabled to wot

02:41:52 livegnik: Can I drop a few lines (like 15 or so) in here to give some examples of what Identifi nodes could be applied to?

02:42:16 danielpbarron: any of the many free txt file hosting services

02:42:26 livegnik: Sure thing.

02:42:38 danielpbarron: dpaste is a favorite in here; also pastebin

02:43:01 livegnik: There ya go: http://pastebin.com/ucczV0hr

02:43:02 assbot: - One-way authentication, so that the party that you're authenticating with does - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLTH9q )

02:43:20 livegnik: I'll check dpaste. I've been using pastebin up till now for the most-part; years.

02:43:59 danielpbarron: so there should be a link on your site to my "address book" listing ?

02:45:19 livegnik: http://identi.fi/id/account/danielpbarron%40bitcoin-otc.com

02:45:19 assbot: Identifi - danielpbarron ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjUDTa )

02:45:49 trinque: livegnik | trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project << for the logs, it is never, ever a good idea to leap off into some venture with both feet when the venture has no profitability or plan to achieve it

02:46:02 trinque: livegnik: this killed my last employer, as it should have

02:46:34 trinque: the idea that profitability is something you can "figure out along the way" if at all, is a braindead american VC concept

02:46:43 livegnik: trinque: We plan to break-even within (max) a year or 3.

02:46:49 trinque: as noted earlier in the logs, these days our chief export is bullshit

02:47:08 livegnik: I can't say too much about it at this time, but I can tell you that we have an accountant who's helping us to crunch the numbers.

02:47:26 trinque: yes but this is "if we get x and y consulting dollars" and so on?

02:47:40 livegnik: That's one revenue stream, yes.

02:47:52 livegnik: Happy to elaborate on the others when I can make that info public.

02:47:55 trinque: sure

02:48:26 trinque: and maybe you will; difficult position to be in to say the least

02:48:59 trinque: livegnik: what does each node store its WoT in?

02:49:11 livegnik: An sqlite3 database.

02:49:22 trinque: as I understand it you're basically using the bitcoin transaction propagation stuff to send out rating data?

02:49:27 trinque: then stuffed into sqlite

02:49:29 trinque: ?

02:49:32 livegnik: Yes,

02:49:46 trinque: so you're merely using "bitcoin" as a gossip layer

02:50:11 trinque: keypairs and gossip about ratings is probably not far from the mark

02:50:13 livegnik: And we're working on a permission database / filter/firewall & communication application that can run between the node that stores the actual data, and the other trusted nodes, in order to set thresholds based on permissions for sharing info.

02:50:41 livegnik: You could put it that way. It's a layer to shuffle your marmot around, or whatever analogy you prefer.

02:50:57 livegnik: Not far from the mark?

02:52:19 trinque: if you're not using the blockchain I dunno why you don't just use gpg keys and some gossip protocol; as I understand it bitcoin isn't even very good at that part

02:52:49 danielpbarron: lolol "shuffle your marmot"

02:53:03 trinque: heh

02:53:23 *: trinque reserves judgment on whether this is a nice marmot yet

02:53:30 trinque: seems there's a simpler way

02:54:28 livegnik: trinque: I'm not much of a coder, so I'm not able to answer that last remark at this point. Martti probably has a fitting answer for that one, according to my previous experiences with his mostly-always-sufficient answers.

02:54:50 trinque: livegnik: get in our WoT so you can self-voice, and invite him along too

02:54:51 livegnik: I'm open for suggestions though, and again, I'm just the business developer. Martti is the real dev on this one.

02:54:58 trinque: debate is how things operate around here

02:55:12 livegnik: That's why I love hearing your feedback.

02:55:42 livegnik: I've been trying to find people to break this theory, but haven't bumped into them yet. At the same time, there aren't too many people working on these types of solutions throughout the world atm.

02:55:49 trinque: livegnik: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

02:55:49 assbot: irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUtTH )

02:55:52 trinque: instructions on registering

02:56:55 livegnik: I'm finishing up some things atm, and will then go catch some rest. My IRC server is up 99% of the time (the missing 1% was yesterday), so I'll be back in here :)

02:57:10 livegnik: Thanks for your thoughts on this so far. I'll invite Martti to join us in here.

03:00:44 trinque: I see two problems, one solved by gpg entirely, which is establishing an identity

03:00:53 trinque: the other is a publishing problem, mostly solved by gpg

03:00:58 trinque: "who says"

03:01:22 trinque: the rest of the problem is what they said, about whom, and how that information is discoverec

03:01:27 trinque: *discovered

03:02:53 danielpbarron: You can try it out at http://identi.fi. You can easily log in with FB/G+/Twitter/email and give ratings and verifications. It's still in alpha stage and the user interface is under constant development. My goal is to make it easier to use than the address book on your phone. << that part's got to go if it's going to be worth anything

03:02:55 assbot: Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUXt8 )

03:03:21 danielpbarron: !up livegnik do you have a GPG key?

03:03:51 livegnik: Not for this purpose, yet. I'll fix it later today (after I wake up).

03:03:52 trinque: rather than gossip protocols and all this other fancy shit, what's wrong with a simple gpg message format that constitutes a rating

03:04:23 livegnik: Sorry for bothering you with level-upping me constantly. I won't be on for much longer now anyhow, so I won't waste too much of your typing and/or clicking ;)

03:05:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94476 @ 0.00025766 = 24.3427 BTC [+]

03:05:18 livegnik: There's probably not much wrong with simple gpg messages. There's more to Identifi than rating messages however.

03:05:21 danielpbarron: it's less of a bother than your apology for the perceived bother

03:05:34 livegnik: lol

03:06:06 livegnik: In that case, sorry to bother you with the apology for the perceived bother.

03:06:13 trinque: oh shit, meta-apology

03:06:16 trinque: livegnik: go to bed!

03:06:18 livegnik: ghehehe

03:06:31 trinque: and bring your partner in here for a beating next

03:06:39 livegnik: haha

03:06:43 livegnik: I'll try and do that.

03:07:10 livegnik: I know who's beating I'll put my money on though.

03:07:21 trinque: heh sounds like you already have

03:07:38 livegnik: I did? Oh, I might have become insusceptible to them then by now.

03:09:22 livegnik: Disregard that last one, miscommunication on my side. I think you're right about me going to bed then.

03:09:43 livegnik: I enjoyed talking to all of you. See y'all in Round 2! :)

03:09:53 danielpbarron: http://unbit.nl/wp-content/uploads/5399242443_45f4a3b223.jpg << http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/graph/

03:09:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLVqM1 )

03:09:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLVr2n )

03:10:11 trinque: livegnik: cheers

03:11:02 livegnik: danielpbarron: Thanks for that link! With Identifi it could look something like this: https://twitter.com/timpastoor/status/585515976566960128/photo/1

03:34:12 mod6: trinque: same thing :/

03:35:01 trinque: sheeit

03:35:52 mod6: http://dpaste.com/0578KZ6.txt << my grub

03:35:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLWWOc )

03:36:14 mod6: has the same error in the System Log.

03:38:04 mod6: oh well, i guess we can pick it back up tomorrow.

03:38:24 trinque: mod6: http://dpaste.com/1PBGHN3.txt

03:38:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZ9xkZ )

03:38:41 trinque: may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2

03:39:00 trinque: and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long

03:39:29 trinque: kernel /boot/bzImage root=/dev/xvda1 rootfstype=ext4

03:39:35 trinque: from menu.lst

03:40:57 mod6: yeah isn't that what i have in grub? ^^^

03:41:01 trinque: yup

03:41:04 mod6: meanwhile...:

03:41:18 mod6: # ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getblockcount

03:41:19 mod6: 138922

03:42:41 mod6: <+trinque> may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2 << i'll try this out tomorrow

03:42:51 mod6: <+trinque> and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long << ok sweet!

03:43:00 trinque: sounds good; bbl

03:43:15 mod6: anyway, if my grub looks good, then maybe it's my kern. but it could be something else... not quite sure.

03:43:19 mod6: ok night

03:43:44 decimation: http://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-talent-wars-engineers-come-get-your-250k-salary/ < lol silly-con valley 'bizness'

03:43:45 assbot: Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLXpQj )

03:44:14 decimation: "It's "a horrific idea," [paying $250k] said Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, Silicon Valley's most prestigious technology incubator. "It seems on paper like a really good idea [since] great engineers can create huge value. [But] here's why it doesn't work: You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries. And so if your company is known as the place where you can make a huge cash salary, you end up

03:44:16 decimation: attracting" the worst cultural fits. "

03:45:03 decimation: of course he's not a fan, because if suddenly 'talent' thinks they are worth $250k instead of $50k, his own business implodes

03:46:15 Pierre_Rochard: ^ place this quote under “self-serving” in a dictionary

03:48:15 decimation: Pierre_Rochard: exactly. also, given that if you are making less than $150k in silicon valley you are literally a bum - it won't take much for 'salary fashions' to change

03:48:16 mircea_popescu: lmao.

03:48:26 Pierre_Rochard: “You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries.” <- well let’s say their are fewer missionaries in the labor market than there are missionary positions. You have to compete for them somehow.

03:49:01 Pierre_Rochard: “we’re more religious than the next guy d00d!! we only worship helping consumers with javascript!!”

03:49:17 *: mircea_popescu places sam altman's "mp killed our business model, sadly, as he said he would" quote under "unexpected honesty" in his own personal disectionary.

03:49:18 scoopbot_revived: News! The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume X URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-x/

03:51:34 danielpbarron: ;;later tell livegnik see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065991

03:51:34 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 22:08:54; assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 15:07:09; Adlai: this is a good point... even if each wot rating is signed, this can be a false friend - what if you're not looking at the latest version of the ratings? if only we had some way of achieving trust-minimized consensus...

03:51:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:53:34 asciilifeform: <decimation> http://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-talent-wars-engineers-come-get-your-250k-salary/ <<< the mega-l0l is that 250kusd doesn't even buy a garage there

03:53:35 assbot: Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbjTa )

03:54:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120239 << i was wonderin the same thing. time for sha512 erryone.

03:54:00 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:25:57; asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere

03:54:17 decimation: asciilifeform: amusingly here's a breakdown of silly-con valley real-estate: http://allenc.com/2015/04/salary-requirements-for-a-house-in-silicon-valley/

03:54:19 assbot: Salary Requirements for a House in Silicon Valley ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbopL )

03:54:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's a modest condo, like 1.5-2mn ?

03:54:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to decimation's chart - very close to this.

03:54:50 decimation: median price in palo alto was $2.4 mil in 2014

03:54:54 asciilifeform: where i live - about 1/2mil

03:55:05 mircea_popescu: "Let?s assume we want a $1.0M, below-median house in Redwood City. You?d have to start by coming up with ~$220k in savings for the down payment + closing costs, and then take out a mortgage for the remaining $800k"

03:55:08 mircea_popescu: heh. mkay.

03:55:21 mircea_popescu: decimation but those be houses, mostly. right ?

03:55:33 decimation: yeah freestanding homes

03:56:01 decimation: I think a small flat goes for 0.5-1 mil

03:56:05 mircea_popescu: A car is pretty much a requirement in the suburbs. Even without accounting for car payments, gas and insurance and tolls will eat up $200-300 per month easily. << i thought tesla is free!

03:56:08 mircea_popescu: or is that only in sweden

03:56:23 asciilifeform: phree

03:56:28 decimation: you are saving so much in gas!

03:56:50 asciilifeform: they built phree charging garages in key chump habitats in usa

03:57:05 asciilifeform: (promotional gimmick)

03:57:08 mircea_popescu: "Salaries and bonuses and stock grants may be jumping higher in our current boom cycle, but a lot of it is recaptured in real estate." heh

03:57:18 decimation: no shit sherlock

03:57:25 mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that "quantitative easing" essentially ends up as a real estate bubble.

03:57:45 asciilifeform: the squid giveth, the squid taketh away.

03:57:48 decimation: exactly. there's nowhere for all the vast slosh of bezzlars to go, other than real estate and the stock market

03:57:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o i know. was very amused at some incredibly hamhanded esl scam-pushing linked earlier.

03:58:35 decimation: the indentfi guy?

03:59:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of penalties and actual deterrence : it's as you may know rauchen verboten here. so i pull out a cigarillo and head to a table where three girlies are derping (at starbucks). ask for a light. they... all have it.

03:59:45 mircea_popescu: who the fuck carries matches/lighters around if they don't fucking smoke.

03:59:57 asciilifeform: folks who smoke weed

04:00:06 mircea_popescu: "oh, better keep this in the purse ever as i pretend smoking disgusts me, who knows, maybe hott gringo asks

04:00:22 asciilifeform: poke smot, woke smeed (TM)

04:00:24 mircea_popescu: yeah right. these chicks looked like they haven't even mastered the blowjob yet. what weed.

04:00:33 asciilifeform: then pyromania.

04:00:47 mircea_popescu: !up livegnik

04:00:49 decimation: candles?

04:00:50 mircea_popescu: wtf is identifi

04:01:00 mircea_popescu: ima name myself popesci, it's trendi eri

04:01:16 mircea_popescu: decimation on the street ?!

04:01:20 asciilifeform: PopeSci - laboratory supplies approved by the holy see

04:01:22 decimation: some guy made a web 2.0 version of nanotube's wot, thinks he is gonna make money

04:01:27 asciilifeform: mega-business, yes

04:01:31 asciilifeform: must happen.

04:01:42 mircea_popescu: let me guess, easier to use ?

04:01:52 decimation: lol

04:01:57 mircea_popescu: anyway, sirius as in the 2009 sirius ?

04:02:13 mircea_popescu: ie, the actual founder of tardstalk.org ?

04:02:16 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120385 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120388

04:02:16 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:37:01; decimation: livegnik: what do you have to offer over properly using gpg?

04:02:16 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:37:47; livegnik: decimation: Well, I guess usability on many fronts mostly. Also, it can be integrated within many existing fields.

04:02:44 decimation: it's almost like these guys are a broken record

04:02:44 mircea_popescu: afaik sirius had been working at a web-ish sort of wot for ages now.

04:03:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120250 << neato mod6 !

04:03:11 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:32:31; mod6: ok bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 + Orphanage Nuke is running with `nmon -f -s3` & `vmstat 1`, so we should have some good metrics when complete.

04:03:44 asciilifeform: speaking of,

04:03:54 asciilifeform: 173874.

04:04:10 mircea_popescu: nb.

04:04:17 asciilifeform: (not continuous run, this was a portable box that spent ~4 or so hrs in a car)

04:04:40 mircea_popescu: !gettrust livegnik

04:04:40 assbot: livegnik is not registered in WoT.

04:04:45 mircea_popescu: o.O

04:04:46 asciilifeform: will post valgrind output tomorrow

04:05:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120259 << if i were a hooker, i'd get a job as a hotel maid.

04:05:17 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:34:01; asciilifeform: this is unheard of in usa

04:05:38 mircea_popescu: perfect spot. guy alone ? take off clothes, do the work naked, see what he says.

04:05:40 decimation: cleaning shit is at least an honest business

04:06:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought about flipping the cardboard flag to lure'em in

04:06:14 mircea_popescu: you don't have to pay anyone for leads that way, don't have to commute to work... with a little luck can do a dozen numbers and make more than the manager makes per month

04:06:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform alternatively you coulda just asked.

04:06:35 mircea_popescu: you know women are possessed of speech. you can talk to them.

04:06:43 asciilifeform: in deep theory, yes

04:06:46 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:07:02 mircea_popescu: i talked to one just now!!

04:07:05 asciilifeform: w0w

04:07:31 decimation: you don't even have to be a missionary for your shit cleaning

04:07:34 decimation: just a mercenary

04:07:37 mircea_popescu: didn't even have to repeat myself or nuttin.

04:07:52 asciilifeform: pets don't count, you know

04:07:53 mircea_popescu: decimation how's this mercenary position again ?

04:08:06 decimation: pay me to clean your shit?

04:08:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you think just erryone gets to be a pet ?

04:08:19 asciilifeform: clearly not erryone.

04:08:35 asciilifeform: but distinct problem from chatting with wild creatures, yes

04:09:03 asciilifeform: (not really problem, as such, unless one made catastrophic mistake in empetting)

04:09:56 mircea_popescu: anyway, it's my experience that the unconcerned asker usually does fine. it's the hedger that ends up in the soup.

04:10:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120278 << check it out, an entire network away from b-a. because why ?

04:10:55 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:46:40; livegnik: Yesterday I've written an extensive comment on Ian Grigg's article about ID issues, especially in combination with the blockchain. It's quite the read, but I think it'll be worth your time, if you want to get a more in-depth view of Identifi:

04:11:46 asciilifeform: because came up with it in the dark, used chewing gum, knife, remains of his parachute straps, and bones of travelling companion to build it.

04:12:00 asciilifeform: (however much of it there is)

04:12:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120287 << not a terribly fair sourging, this. we're not doing so very much better, yet. ( http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-new-lordship-list/#comment-113945 )

04:12:16 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:49:19; asciilifeform: try to answer this one compactly, it should be answerable. who composes the whitelist ?

04:12:17 assbot: A new Lordship List ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZdtCg )

04:12:19 decimation: asciilifeform: he does have rounded corners on the wot listings

04:13:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was not initially clear what was meant by 'whitelist'

04:13:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120299 << this is urgently becoming a major tell-tale sign of eventual failure.

04:13:33 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:52:03; trinque: aside that it just strings together analogies

04:13:38 asciilifeform: assumed centralized derpatron, because this is almost inevitably in the mix when folks reinvent in the dark

04:14:03 mircea_popescu: yeah. but even if construed favorably, the point remains : you will have some hierarchies of trust.

04:14:08 asciilifeform: the most worrying sign is that the fella intends to somehow make a living from this

04:14:12 mircea_popescu: gpg nbetwork calls it "the strong set"

04:14:29 mircea_popescu: kind-of what i'm trying to build too, kind-of what's utterly required : until critical mass, danger will robinson!

04:15:25 mircea_popescu: and i suspect (the math on this is fuzzy and still bneing worked out) that the critical mass for wot is exponentially more expensive than the critical mass for bitocin.

04:15:57 asciilifeform: almost certainly will rest on meatgangs, just as the old world did. (i.e. sets of folks who actually interact daily, not necessarily in meatspace)

04:16:18 mircea_popescu: seems probable. hence teh conferences.

04:16:31 felipelalli: http://i.imgur.com/oLki4kF.jpg << USGavin blocktrain

04:16:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZdXrZ )

04:16:47 decimation: lol

04:16:52 asciilifeform: this deserves to be posted somewhere

04:17:01 mircea_popescu: there was a great pic of a loaded train yest, where was it

04:17:02 asciilifeform: (somewhere permanent)

04:17:44 felipelalli: I searched on Google by "india crowded train" ahahah

04:18:11 mircea_popescu: http://travel.smart-guide.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Pakistan-Crowded-Train.jpg

04:18:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZec6o )

04:18:23 felipelalli: it is insane!

04:18:28 asciilifeform: there we go.

04:18:35 mircea_popescu: http://travel.smart-guide.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/The-Most-Crowded-Train-in-Pakistan.jpg prolly better

04:18:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZeaLH )

04:18:46 felipelalli: but here in Brazil we have this: http://www.anonymousbrasil.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/120717-Metr%C3%B4SP2.jpg

04:18:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZebiM )

04:18:52 asciilifeform: rivers'o'meat!

04:18:57 decimation: I was watching a bbc show about indian frontier railways a few weeks ago

04:19:00 mircea_popescu: omfg

04:19:18 decimation: apparently neither india nor pakistan have upgraded anything since the brits left

04:19:57 decimation: still using ancient signaling devices, etc

04:19:59 asciilifeform: decimation: not quite, in got some su hardware on the cheap

04:20:13 asciilifeform: but probably not enough to be visible to unarmed eye

04:20:14 felipelalli: the new blocktrain: http://img.qga.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/metr%C3%B4-sp-0.jpeg

04:20:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZeslR )

04:20:28 danielpbarron: http://fraudsters.com/2014/cryptographs-revived/ << loaded train

04:20:29 assbot: Cryptographs, revived. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZesSX )

04:21:25 decimation: asciilifeform: the frontier railways are pathological cases, going between indian and bangladesh, nepal

04:22:24 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: "Martti Malmi is << sirius. and yes.

04:23:17 asciilifeform: so this character is known here, but is not in wot proper ?

04:23:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120329 << the general score is an implementation error, due to originator noobishness. it's been mostly since remedied. see stuff like http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

04:23:23 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:22:45; livegnik: danielpbarron: The main difference between Bitcoin-OTC and Identifi, if I understand correctly, is that the Bitcoin-OTC WoT acts as a WoT-for-all, whereas with Identifi each identity has it's own WoT, and there's no 'general' score.

04:23:24 assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZeJoS )

04:23:45 asciilifeform: !s wot not scalar

04:23:46 assbot: 1 results for 'wot not scalar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=wot+not+scalar

04:24:22 mircea_popescu: myeah.

04:25:02 mircea_popescu: in other news : i

04:25:15 mircea_popescu: i'm "hacking" gravtar, been exposing gmail emails all day.

04:25:19 mircea_popescu: will make a post later about it.

04:25:24 asciilifeform: l0l

04:25:49 mircea_popescu: oh i recall this identi.fi thing being discussed at some point cuz anduck was in it. maybe a year ago ?

04:25:56 mircea_popescu: !s "identi.fi"

04:25:56 assbot: 3 results for '"identi.fi"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22identi.fi%22

04:26:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were some results with dictionary attack a while ago

04:26:11 asciilifeform: (it used md5, iirc)

04:26:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2014#868256

04:26:13 assbot: Logged on 11-10-2014 03:19:12; mircea_popescu: http://identi.fi/id/account/mircea_popescu@bitcoin-otc.com << check out the scrappers ?

04:26:15 mircea_popescu: word.

04:26:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. this is going the other way.

04:26:45 asciilifeform: http://www.developer.it/post/gravatars-why-publishing-your-email-s-hash-is-not-a-good-idea

04:26:46 assbot: Gravatars: why publishing your email's hash is not a good idea ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZf6Qe )

04:27:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. this is going the other way tho : make emails, hash, test.

04:27:40 mircea_popescu: im going through ~100/s, fished out a few dozen already.

04:27:40 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: not only emails but the photo together. :)

04:27:41 asciilifeform: that works

04:27:48 asciilifeform: l0l

04:28:55 *: asciilifeform doubts that anyone will be shocked at the discovery that one can do this

04:29:13 mircea_popescu: i intend to email the people so i guess we see.

04:29:20 decimation: why use unsalted md5?

04:29:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47150 @ 0.0002504 = 11.8064 BTC [-] {2}

04:29:47 mircea_popescu: because gravatar, which is a subsidiary of automattic, which exists in order to shit on the internet.

04:30:11 mircea_popescu: there's an entire subculture of these asinine imbeciles, from altman to fetlife to automattic to you name it.

04:31:07 mircea_popescu: "everyone can drive a car" results sooner or later in the "nobody could have foreseen that curve" soccer mom and old person automotive club

04:34:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120368 << rhel was not BORN a usg agency. it first made money, on a totally different business model, before folding in. this celia approach to life doesn't work as a way to START. it's a way to end.

04:34:48 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:32:01; livegnik: The idea for business model for the company we have in mind probably comes closest to Red Hat, without the Enterprise edition.

04:35:05 mircea_popescu: (but i do recall a kid who, whenever asked what he aims to become in lyf, would answer "pensioneer")

04:35:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37700 @ 0.00024984 = 9.419 BTC [-] {2}

04:35:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120380 << if only people did their year of logs before proceeding into walls.

04:35:50 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:36:21; livegnik: trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project full-time. I've actually quit my dayjob for it and am burning my savings.

04:36:34 decimation: I remember the early days of redhat, when everyone thought they were the heros for trying to 'make money' on open source software

04:36:54 mircea_popescu: mhm

04:37:02 mircea_popescu: well, back then they were the heroes.

04:37:35 mircea_popescu: heck, at some point graham was a very respectable lisp hacker, and buffett a supremely wise capital allocator.

04:37:39 mircea_popescu: age gets to us all.

04:37:44 decimation: then they realized that they occupied a massive vacuum left by sun and old purveyors of unix to usg

04:37:53 mircea_popescu: myeah

04:38:08 mircea_popescu: the problem with people, generally, is that they never aim to destroy.

04:38:33 mircea_popescu: the thought of your average joe when confronted with a vacuum is never "holy shit ima make SUCH A fucking earthquake here..."

04:38:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120414 << this is exactly what planning is not.

04:38:57 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 02:46:43; livegnik: trinque: We plan to break-even within (max) a year or 3.

04:39:08 decimation: but he has an accountant!

04:39:15 mircea_popescu: women plan like thus : i would like for X to happen. men plan like thus : X is probably going to happen want it or not.

04:39:22 mircea_popescu: the former's daydreaming, the latter's planning.

04:39:32 mircea_popescu: because human culture is an exercise in opressing the female viewpoint

04:39:40 mircea_popescu: principally because the female viewpoint is retardedly infantile.

04:41:01 mircea_popescu: decimation : to quote the original variety speak, "the budget goes crunch, but the names pack punch, so they called over the accountants and they're gonna do lunch"

04:41:58 cazalla: AU slashed interest rates to 2.0%, lowest on record, gotta juice the housing market a bit more i guess

04:42:38 decimation: mircea_popescu: the idea that an accountant is the guy who should be planning your business is a little silly

04:42:59 mircea_popescu: he means the accountant will shrug at their projections and go "i guess"

04:43:11 mircea_popescu: which makes them ever so slightly better than blindfold darts

04:43:32 decimation: yeah, reminds me of 'technical analysis' of stocks

04:44:03 mircea_popescu: accountant is definitely useful, in this process.

04:44:16 mircea_popescu: like the mill generator is important in aircraft.

04:44:21 mircea_popescu: it won't land the thing for you tho.

04:44:30 decimation: sure, but in the sense of knowing where you are, not where you are going I would think?

04:45:00 mircea_popescu: accountant's a tool. can only shine in the hands of providential management.

04:45:39 decimation: yes. one problem with the us business world in general is that many 'staff' positions like accountancy have been mistaken for management

04:46:20 mircea_popescu: if you don't have providential management, da fuck you gonna do. trust in the tools.

04:46:50 mircea_popescu: cargo cultism at its most base. "well we don't have a mechanic, but all the toolboxes are here and open just like he would have had them, were he here"

04:47:13 decimation: maybe if we let the tools decide?

04:48:08 *: mircea_popescu imagines very sad repair shop operated by the surviving children of dead mechanic, through throwing wrenches and whatnot at engines.

04:48:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24979 @ 0.00024961 = 6.235 BTC [-] {2}

04:48:53 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: << that part's got to go << that's the part which provides "usability".

04:49:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118121 @ 0.00024879 = 29.3873 BTC [-] {3}

04:50:41 *: mircea_popescu pokes asciilifeform the conquering hero as to THE STATE OF THE DAMNED GPG KEYS!111

04:52:12 mircea_popescu: thinking about it, i'm not even sure what ycombinator's business model is supposed to be past the old yahoo scam (trick old ladies into thinking X is big so they pour their money into it, pocketing most of it, etc)

04:53:13 decimation: yeah, but richer and more sophisticated ladies, because they are qualified investors

04:53:30 mircea_popescu: right.

04:53:45 mircea_popescu: well yahoo in the golden age (1999-2002ish) also swindled the same market.

04:54:42 mircea_popescu: same Katie Courics/Elie Wiesels/Alicia Koplowitzes that madoff took to the cleaners too.

05:57:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117421 @ 0.00025244 = 29.6418 BTC [+] {2}

06:05:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00025766 = 10.3064 BTC [+]

06:07:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93401 @ 0.00024651 = 23.0243 BTC [-]

06:17:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89750 @ 0.00024651 = 22.1243 BTC [-]

06:53:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74350 @ 0.00026059 = 19.3749 BTC [+] {2}

06:56:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50100 @ 0.00024651 = 12.3502 BTC [-]

07:16:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.experian.com/small-business/mailing-lists.jsp << check out the mad skills of experian.

07:16:40 assbot: Buy Mailing Lists, Marketing Lists & Leads Online | Consumer Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZASDu )

07:36:49 mats: https://www.mininodes.com/64-bit-arm-servers-now-available/

08:26:38 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120242 if you have any better idea how to come up with patch ID and propagate it

08:26:38 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:27:39; asciilifeform: jurov: can we have less mutilation (file names?) plz ?

08:28:31 cazalla: http://agar.io/ sweet game

08:28:31 assbot: Agar.io ... ( http://bit.ly/1IcV82B )

08:30:10 mircea_popescu: namespaces, best problem in cs.

08:54:42 davout: ;;later tell funkenstein_ nice blog post

08:54:43 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:08:22 jurov: lmao.. liberlanders tried to board their homeland, get detained by croatian customs for "crossing border outside of b.point"

09:08:46 jurov: promise "we'll try next time using proper protocol for boarding from international waters"

09:10:05 jurov: with "We have assistance of Serbian police, which is now coordinating the action so everything would go well in keeping with the international laws."

09:12:15 jurov: sauce: https://www.facebook.com/theliberlandtimes

09:12:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvMN6X )

09:15:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00024651 = 2.12 BTC [-]

09:19:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139617 @ 0.00024729 = 34.5259 BTC [+]

09:29:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00024729 = 4.9458 BTC [+]

09:30:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170100 @ 0.00024729 = 42.064 BTC [+]

09:30:53 punkman: jurov, also funny http://www.paraduin.nl/?p=173

09:30:54 assbot: Illegal Liberland flag removed from Siga | Paraduin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvPuoX )

10:20:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 211 @ 0.01075639 = 2.2696 BTC [+] {5}

10:22:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48462 @ 0.00024729 = 11.9842 BTC [+]

10:30:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33610 @ 0.00024622 = 8.2755 BTC [-] {2}

10:31:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102858 @ 0.00024471 = 25.1704 BTC [-] {3}

10:41:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00024729 = 18.6209 BTC [+]

10:49:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.0002428 = 7.4175 BTC [-]

11:55:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41630 @ 0.00024457 = 10.1814 BTC [+] {2}

11:56:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91200 @ 0.000248 = 22.6176 BTC [+]

12:14:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25520 @ 0.00024839 = 6.3389 BTC [+]

12:24:17 jurov: http://journal.liberation.fr/publication/liberation/1849/#!/0_0 lulz for mircea_popescu

12:24:17 assbot: Libération, journal numérique du 5 mai 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1zK2eJ4 )

12:33:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179900 @ 0.00024393 = 43.883 BTC [-] {3}

12:41:26 mats: it falls

12:50:17 jurov: http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote wow,$42 for 0.1 pseudobtc? /r/buttcoin has field day with this

12:50:18 assbot: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Bitcoin Investment Trust - OTCMarkets.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1zK4no8 )

12:51:52 davout: jurov: re liberation maximum kek

12:54:40 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120260 <<< didn't stop dominique strauss kahn :D

12:54:40 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:34:14; trinque: asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig

12:56:03 davout: asciilifeform: really curious to see how the orphanage thermonuke patch will work in the field

13:17:56 mats: https://twitter.com/hackerfantastic/status/595576361512755200

13:25:56 asciilifeform: 182842

13:46:07 asciilifeform: jurov: please check turdatron

13:46:14 asciilifeform: ate msg for no reason that i can discern

13:46:27 asciilifeform: nm, just slow

13:46:40 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000089.html

13:46:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dKnsN3 )

13:46:45 asciilifeform: ^ achtung, panzers

13:46:57 asciilifeform: [BTC-dev] Full Orphanage Thermonuke Valgrind Output.

13:49:02 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al ^^^

14:01:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166650 @ 0.00024604 = 41.0026 BTC [+] {2}

14:02:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 181302 @ 0.00023476 = 42.5625 BTC [-] {2}

14:03:11 *: mod6 looks

14:11:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16398 @ 0.00023326 = 3.825 BTC [-]

14:12:38 mod6: ;;calc 50655817/1024000

14:12:39 gribble: 49.4685712891

14:12:46 mod6: so about 10x that much eh

14:14:52 mod6: 187980 << im at this block

14:15:04 mod6: but overnight my nmon capture died :<

14:16:08 mircea_popescu: jurov what's liberanders ?

14:17:55 mod6: here's what I'm seeing in my vmstat.out -- before bitcoind was started, and currently: http://dpaste.com/3E5W7SB.txt

14:17:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMoe2W )

14:18:27 mircea_popescu: <jurov> wow,$42 for 0.1 pseudobtc? << i don't see anything on that page ?

14:20:00 jurov: dunno, works from here. and it went up to $55

14:20:08 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu jurov give me two mins and i'll have a little qntra piece on it

14:20:11 jurov: http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

14:20:12 assbot: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Bitcoin Investment Trust - OTCMarkets.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMoqzn )

14:20:17 mircea_popescu: http://md0.libe.com/api/libe/v2/paperpage/218512/?size=x500&format=jpg << what the fuck idiotic format is that.

14:20:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMosHr )

14:20:29 jurov: oh you mean liberation

14:20:50 jurov: that's worse shit than scribd, i did not realize at first

14:22:32 mircea_popescu: anyway. so some senator wants the bitches in decolletage. big whoop.

14:22:42 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gbtc-otc-derp.png << this what you see ?

14:22:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMoEX3 )

14:23:13 jurov: yea, that i saw when i had js disabled

14:23:59 mircea_popescu: ah ok. it'll be good enough then. no quotes.

14:24:13 Pierre_Rochard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120718 < bizarre statement, if you think of your CFO as staff, you hired the wrong guy

14:24:13 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 04:45:39; decimation: yes. one problem with the us business world in general is that many 'staff' positions like accountancy have been mistaken for management

14:24:26 mircea_popescu: "The Liberlanden goverment seems to have a lot of plans for the future. Paraduin appears to have no plans. Why clutch the control of a nation which you have no intrest in?" << wtf is with these retarded children. they're comparing their reality on the grounds of the extension of their hopes and dreams now ?

14:24:55 mircea_popescu: "you and sara aren't nearly as much a thing as me and sara, because I even draw weird pictures of her in my fictional dungeon doing really slave-y shit!!1"

14:24:56 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo http://dpaste.com/0J7BCR7.txt << qntsideration

14:24:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JO3mhY )

14:24:57 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:25:01 mircea_popescu: meanwhile sara doesn't know who either are.

14:25:21 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard cfo is nonsense in the first place.

14:25:30 mircea_popescu: what are you, a private bank ?

14:26:21 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla http://dpaste.com/3SJX45Z.txt << qntsideration

14:26:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JO3u19 )

14:26:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:27:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform (Fragging; or dynamic crud somehow not covered by valgrind, etc.) << i toldja it doesn't only leak in that place.

14:27:20 Pierre_Rochard: seriously? I’ve only worked in handful of businesses, but I can’t imagine them operating for long without a CFO

14:27:38 mircea_popescu: but ==4466== ERROR SUMMARY: 303360 errors from 25 contexts is not bad.

14:28:05 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard yeah, but what they did was glorify their accountant into "officer"hood.

14:28:24 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GBTC-quote-May-5-2015.png << this is what i see.

14:28:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JO3DSd )

14:28:28 mircea_popescu: a business couldn't conceivably operate for long without the cleanning lady, either, but that doesn't mean she's not staff.

14:29:12 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski lol. doesn't even... price outside of week range etc ? p.lulzy.

14:29:49 pete_dushenski: mebbe "pink sheets" don't have such fancy rules ?

14:30:11 pete_dushenski: still, $550 for APPROXIMATELY one coin

14:30:18 mircea_popescu: i'm having a lol at "greyscale" having made essentially the same tired out bitcoin scam.

14:30:22 pete_dushenski: what's the margin for error here, me wonders.

14:30:34 mircea_popescu: these fiat derps really imagine they're going to be such hot shit once "they get regulatory approval"

14:30:42 mircea_popescu: then they do and it turns out... that's still not where it's at.

14:31:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00024361 = 19.7202 BTC [+]

14:32:05 pete_dushenski: "no one could've predicted"

14:32:39 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: there’s been generalized inflation of “C” positions, but if you’re going to glorify someone, may as well be the financial steward of the company. He’s a key part of governance and oversight. Or at least, that’s been my experience

14:33:02 mircea_popescu: oversight he is, but that's staff.

14:33:12 mircea_popescu: governance is the job of the fucking board not the job of the officers

14:33:17 mircea_popescu: for crying out loud k ?

14:33:46 mircea_popescu: i get it, everyone wants to pretend and pretense is expensive so everyone agrees to pretend in a cheaper, mutually recognised way

14:33:48 mircea_popescu: nevertheless...

14:35:28 mircea_popescu: unless you're out and out making tax avoidance and marginal financial scams a part of your business model (hence my "are you a private bank" question), in which case yes the cfo is in fact a chief of a department and needs to come up with planning for the board etc,

14:35:32 Pierre_Rochard: oversight is the definition of management. A board’s governance is over the officers of the company in practice

14:35:37 mircea_popescu: having a cfo is like having an afterburner. for your car.

14:35:51 Pierre_Rochard: that’s the street view

14:35:51 mircea_popescu: no. oversight is the definition of parenting.

14:36:14 mircea_popescu: if oversight were the definition of management, all parents of autistic children should be in jail.

14:37:18 Pierre_Rochard: Your view of cfos reveals something about the cfos you’ve had experience with...

14:37:36 mircea_popescu: in no case can random corp that's NOT a private bank actually afford a cfo. (who no, is not an accountant, and who yes costs more than a good ceo - which again isn't "i'm the boss")

14:38:44 Pierre_Rochard: right, characters out of hollywood movies are generally not available for hire

14:38:59 mircea_popescu: man...

14:41:18 mircea_popescu: competent people are not "characters out of hollywood movies". this is like... guy wanting to break up with his wife because she's... whatever, middleaged fatty, and she breaking out the "supermodels aren't available!!1"

14:41:39 mircea_popescu: depends for whom. yes, for middle aged fatty married to middle aged fatty they aren't. which is why he calling her a "porn star" is dubious in the first place.

14:43:17 mircea_popescu: the conflict here being that you like accountancy and imagine that "being an accountant" is a part of one's identity, and i used to like being a cfo back when i was still available to hire, and i had a very strict "accountant ne ultra crepidam" then, too.

14:46:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00024361 = 3.3253 BTC [+]

14:47:29 wyrdmantis: ;;bc,stats

14:47:42 gribble: Current Blocks: 355080 | Current Difficulty: 4.7643398017803444E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 356831 | Next Difficulty In: 1751 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

14:48:34 mircea_popescu: difficulty choking with price uptrend

14:48:41 mircea_popescu: we're going to see 1000s this year aren't we.

14:49:10 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

14:49:11 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.95, Best ask: 235.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 235.0, 24 hour volume: 35540.0351353, 24 hour low: 231.05, 24 hour high: 241.99, 24 hour vwap: None

14:49:27 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you familiar with the "poisoned reactor" phenomenon ?

14:49:28 pete_dushenski: tis possibru

14:49:39 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu hm. no ?

14:49:39 Pierre_Rochard: my background does color my view, but a competent cfo isn’t one who’s great at tax avoidance (that’s why you hire…. tax accountants!) or cooking the books. (1) A competent cfo is one who build a great financial planning and analysis team and uses them well - to inform the CEO’s strategy and constraints under which the business operates. (2) A competent cfo also builds a great internal audit team to maintain

14:49:40 Pierre_Rochard: control over assets and operations

14:50:01 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard yes man, in theory this is true. in practice you know what it is.

14:50:13 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski well then pull a chair and let old man me tell you a story!

14:50:20 Pierre_Rochard: that’s what I’ve seen in practice…

14:50:21 pete_dushenski: my favourite!

14:50:48 mircea_popescu: so, nuclear reactions happen a lot like dating : whenever a nucleon breaks up, it spits out some accelerated particles. either these hit another nucleon and start another reaction or they don't.

14:51:45 mircea_popescu: in order for the nuclear reaction to be a nuclear explosion, the average nucleons hit / nucleons broken must be >1. in order for it to be a nuclear reactor (the civillian kind) it must be exactly 1. but exactly. if it goes below 1 the reaction extinguishes, so most reactors are run as a 0.999 - 1 oscillation, practically.

14:52:30 mircea_popescu: the way this is accomplished in practice is with "moderators", which are rods of particle absorbers. these soak up the particles, reducing the rate of reaction. in practice, large barium rods go in and out of the core

14:53:10 mircea_popescu: now, some particular fuels have the unfortunate property that if the reaction is ever decelerated, they produce nuclear poisons. nuclear poisons are usually gases (like xeon) that absorb particles and decay.

14:53:59 mircea_popescu: a very dangerous situation can develop in practice (especially in "manually operated" reactors) where the core is well poisoned, which makes it look like it is working way way under 1, which prompts the techs to remove the moderator further.

14:54:08 cazalla: pete_dushenski, it's up

14:54:20 mircea_popescu: nothing happens, of course, because the poisons are still sucking up the particles. so they pull the moderator even further, not getting any feedback.

14:54:47 mircea_popescu: at which point hte poison suddenly runs out, and now you have a critical reactor and not enough time to moderate it (because those rods take time to move, being mechanical in nature).

14:54:53 mircea_popescu: and this is how chernobyl happened.

14:55:28 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu mercy... well told!

14:55:40 pete_dushenski: cazalla cheers mate.

14:56:42 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard what i've seen in practice is a lot of "industry standards" and "nobody could have predicted", neither of which do a cfo make.

14:57:31 mircea_popescu: in fact whenever an officer of any kind justifies anything by "it being industry standard" that officer should be therewith fired and sent back to the staff position he belongs in.

14:57:49 mircea_popescu: it's leadership not followship. you gotta have much better reasons to do anything than "erryone else's doing it"

14:58:09 Pierre_Rochard: I agree

14:58:11 mircea_popescu: and this includes "compliance"

15:00:31 pete_dushenski: is scoopbot_revived seriously down again ?

15:00:37 mircea_popescu: now maybe you live in the magical land over the rainbow where people making 75-150k a year with an accountancy degree under their belt somehow actually come up with strategies and organise departments and whatnot. in practice, you'll get a whole lotta copy/paste, shannonization of varous recycled material (what they got from "books" / overheard at conferences etc) and so on.

15:00:37 pete_dushenski: ^williamdunne

15:04:11 Pierre_Rochard: often better than them trying to reinvent the wheel, that’s when you get some real cargo culting

15:04:26 Pierre_Rochard: “triple entry accounting!!” etc

15:04:49 mircea_popescu: no argument.

15:05:12 mircea_popescu: im not saying that accountants trying to cope with being officers by being bland are better or worse than those trying to cope by being insane.

15:05:23 mircea_popescu: im saying you shouldn't really put people in positions where they have to cope in production

15:05:28 mircea_popescu: coping stress is for school.

15:06:45 mircea_popescu: course school doesn't do that anymore, they just take the tuition, so now business is stuck doing primitive on-job training like it were 1700 all of a sudden.

15:06:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233700 @ 0.0002351 = 54.9429 BTC [-] {4}

15:07:00 Pierre_Rochard: agreed, and I will say not every company’s top accounting/finance person should be cfo, they often should just be treasurer or controller

15:07:02 mircea_popescu: really, the immensity of cultural decay in the west is not something people can appreciate off the street.

15:07:25 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard nothing wrong with that, you know ? be the fucking treasurer, nobody died of it yet sorta thing.

15:07:28 cazalla: pete_dushenski, seems to be.. i swear he was here earlier

15:07:40 pete_dushenski: hm.

15:07:53 mircea_popescu: ima ban pete, he keeps breaking the scoop.

15:07:58 cazalla: if i post a qntra link, it's duplicated seconds later, but if i don't.. nothing!

15:08:03 mircea_popescu: lalw

15:08:24 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu why would nuclear reactions ever be decelerated ? why not just add more barium rods to absorb the excess nucleons ?

15:08:34 mircea_popescu: that's decelerating it.

15:08:41 mircea_popescu: when it goes from 1 to 0.999 it decelerated.

15:09:03 pete_dushenski: oh.

15:09:26 pete_dushenski: which fuels are more likely to poison reactors ?

15:10:06 mircea_popescu: iodine pit, xenon pit. whichever make those.

15:10:39 pete_dushenski: and if you think banning me will make all your earthly woes vanish, you've got another thing coming!

15:10:47 mircea_popescu: (most of them, in practice)

15:10:52 mircea_popescu: like the candu shit you people use.

15:11:11 pete_dushenski: lolk.

15:11:22 *: ben_vulpes wonders if thing is an l2 pun he doesn't understand the context for

15:11:30 pete_dushenski: my dad always says "you people" to refer to jooz.

15:11:53 pete_dushenski: he's... a goy.

15:11:59 *: ben_vulpes enjoys a brief moment of respite to catch up on logs

15:12:37 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what thing

15:12:45 ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> and if you think banning me will make all your earthly woes vanish, you've got another thing coming!

15:12:50 mircea_popescu: lol

15:14:20 *: ben_vulpes pages impatiently through the rhetoric looking for mod6 and asciilifeform and trinque's convos

15:19:27 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "iconv" << is this another one of those "lol u tried to make a static bin sucker" traps?

15:19:28 *: mircea_popescu totally luhvs job jurov is doing as f.mpif manager.

15:19:34 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes exactly.

15:20:05 ben_vulpes: and even though the produced binary is "static" it still loads system modules at runtime?

15:20:10 mircea_popescu: exactly.

15:20:20 mircea_popescu: because orcs must have their dead worm pictures.

15:20:55 ben_vulpes: carving cthulus name over athena's face.

15:21:44 mircea_popescu: you know, for kids.

15:22:12 pete_dushenski: that's pretty fuckin bizarre

15:22:21 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how did you find that in bitcoind? a derpy grep through the 0.5.3 source doesn't show iconv anywhere.

15:22:29 ben_vulpes: (

15:23:04 mircea_popescu: so xoom (some derpy bitcoin exchange thing) : 1. pays google to advertise on pages where it gets 1st slot organically anyway ; 2. fails to even fucking load the landingpage : http://dpaste.com/306CZPS

15:23:05 assbot: dpaste: 306CZPS ... ( http://bit.ly/1F41TDf )

15:23:07 ben_vulpes: mod6, mircea_popescu, trinque, decimation, mats: ^^ anyone else is welcome to answer as well

15:23:15 jurov: lol thanks, why? it's not exactly demanding job

15:23:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it ends up pulled through glibc which is the source of this poison

15:23:38 mircea_popescu: jurov people have fucking serious problems doing well simple jobs like this.

15:23:59 mircea_popescu: so when it's been working correctly for months without needing all sorts of suddenly needed fixes, i'm as happy as i can be.

15:24:39 mircea_popescu: https://www.xoom.com/home?_rt=kac-all-branded-google-xoombrandedsearch-row-en&cid=ps_brd_dsk_all_all_pd__gog_gxbs___ad_acq__us_&languageCode=en&gclid=CLmS3tjzqsUCFQIQ7AodgG8AYQ << lawler.

15:25:01 mircea_popescu: languageCode = underscoreLisp

15:26:00 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5F8ObYgjI

15:26:01 assbot: You know, for kids - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AC1HE0 )

15:27:23 pete_dushenski: heh. gbtc 'daily range' now $55.00 - 94.86. 52wk range unaffected, still 37.98 - 42.00.

15:27:55 thestringpuller: http://gavinandresen.ninja/it-must-be-done-but-is-not-a-panacea

15:28:38 pete_dushenski: next lowest ask: $175 for 1 share, then $299.95 for 100 shares.

15:28:49 jurov: kicking can down the road since 2010 (tm)

15:29:28 ben_vulpes: jurov: http://tm.shithouse.tv

15:29:29 assbot: ™ ... ( http://bit.ly/1F42DrY )

15:31:23 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> and i thought i was retarded. << mind you, the feat being performed is sort of one of profound retardation from the ground up, so the guy's up against a pretty epic tower of abstractions

15:31:31 ben_vulpes: !s dark tower

15:31:32 assbot: 2 results for 'dark tower' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dark+tower

15:31:32 pete_dushenski: gavin: "The ten-minute settlement time of blocks on the network is not fast enough for those problems," << so... go diddle litecoin.

15:32:02 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski pretty lulzy.

15:32:34 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i have nfi why the guy even imagines himself to be involved in bitcoin still.

15:32:35 thestringpuller: "You cannot expect people to do things for free if we want to keep the system decentralized. Its just not going to happen."

15:32:37 mircea_popescu: must be mental inertia.

15:33:15 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> in other news, shoe problems http://40.media.tumblr.com/996bce3d7cadf68f3dcb6cbca5d36ca5/tumblr_n1kzmtoDiA1sx2zfgo4_r1_1280.jpg << tango's given me a new appreciation for the range of girls' ability to derp around in heels

15:33:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AC2RiA )

15:33:42 mircea_popescu: http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks << ahahaha derp's actually expecting to pull that thing into core ?

15:33:43 assbot: Time to roll out bigger blocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1AC2WCV )

15:33:50 davout: "We are years away from a time when we can confidently tell a wallet developer “use this solution to give your users very-high-volume, very-low-cost, very-low-minimum-payment instant transactions.”" <<< someone show them to a mysql howto or something

15:33:51 mircea_popescu: why, on the grounds that "it's a year away so nobody can think about that" ?

15:34:58 mircea_popescu: hey power-rangers : nothing changes because it's a year away. if you put this in now, i will STILL attack your pathetic shit once you diverge from bitcoin, and i will still sink it. and you will probably try to pull a "nobody could have foreseen", except in your case, like in the case of the bfl scammers, i have the record pre-made, it's right here.

15:35:04 mircea_popescu: "nobody could have foreseen" my foot.

15:35:56 mircea_popescu: gotta love gavin's move from his blog to this thing where there's no comments. clearly, the man has a lot of support o.O

15:38:46 ben_vulpes: maybe he just likes static html

15:38:47 thestringpuller: ^- http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34uu02/why_increasing_the_max_block_size_is_urgent_gavin/ << redditards are too lazy to comment on stuff other than reddit

15:40:02 mircea_popescu: "It's pretty easy to have blocks of arbitrary size with no commercial disadvantage to miners-- and doesn't require fancy relay protocols; just all use a single large pool and a mining protocol like stratum that conceals whats being mined from the miners. The more data/cpu required to synchronize state, the more advantage there is in centralizing the function."

15:40:03 mircea_popescu: riiiight.

15:43:37 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [15:05] course school doesn't do that anymore, they just take the tuition, so now business is stuck doing primitive on-job training like it were 1700 all of a sudden. << jesus tell me about it

15:43:48 ben_vulpes: "no. 10am. at the latest."

15:43:52 mircea_popescu: i thought you paged through the rhetoric

15:44:16 ben_vulpes: i don't think you really grok how much rhetoric you drop

15:44:17 mod6: the good news is, I got my gentoo-stage3 to boot without a kernel panic. the bad news seems to be that i can't seem to login... something went sideways with the pubkey auth

15:44:22 mircea_popescu: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/05/05#l1430840272 << aww two hours short of leet.

15:44:23 assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1AC4z3y )

15:44:43 mircea_popescu: mod6 dude my heart goes out to you. all this shit that works until you try it...

15:44:53 mod6: :]

15:44:55 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you're prolly right.

15:45:12 jurov: mod6 aws cloud-init injects other keys

15:45:20 ben_vulpes: besides that was a *different* *uninteresting* block of rhetoric *upstream* of the shit i was interested in

15:45:30 mircea_popescu: lol k

15:45:38 jurov: which you specify when starting the instance

15:45:40 ben_vulpes: aaand logged

15:46:06 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i get my headers and usb widgets on wednesday night

15:46:52 mircea_popescu: jurov how does that work anyway ?

15:47:30 jurov: aws has the concept of machine image, which must be customized on first startup

15:47:45 jurov: so, ssh pubkey is supplied extra and injeced then

15:47:57 mircea_popescu: but how does the injection work ?

15:48:19 jurov: a script called cloud-init runs on startup and does it

15:48:34 davout: yay, gavinanderpsen appeared in #bitcoin to defend his nonsense, fun ahead

15:48:58 mircea_popescu: davout i imagine alarms went out all through fort derp.

15:49:36 mircea_popescu: jurov can you verify they actually inject your key rather than one of theirs for to mitm you with ?

15:49:45 davout: lol

15:49:53 mircea_popescu: (obviously aws the corp owns the servers, but i mean... random employee could totally do this, could they ?)

15:50:25 jurov: they don't need ssh, at all

15:50:47 mircea_popescu: thinking about it, i guess that's actually a point.

15:50:55 mircea_popescu: check out the degradation of modernity!

15:51:08 mircea_popescu: !up Adlai

15:51:16 Adlai: danke

15:51:32 mircea_popescu: np.

15:51:57 jurov: anyway, mod6 has to check /etc/init.d whether clud init is there

15:52:11 jurov: and it it's the case, remember which ssh pubkey he supplied

15:52:37 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 aws cloud-init injects other keys << hmm. it asked me when making the instance from my gentoo-stage3 AMI what key's i wanted to use. I also added "00_getsshkey.sh" script(s) as described in here: http://www.blackswanent.com/gentoo/building-a-gentoo-ami

15:52:38 assbot: Building a Gentoo AMI | BlackSwan ... ( http://bit.ly/1F4565F )

15:53:00 mod6: So when it asked me, I picked a keypair that I already had in use. just expected it to let me use that... but guess not.

15:54:16 mod6: <+jurov> anyway, mod6 has to check /etc/init.d whether clud init is there << i would check on the target environment, but i can't even get in there. I'll check in the chroot'd to-be-ami'd fs.

15:55:12 jurov: kk. cron nor init scripts usually never work on the first try.

15:55:41 mircea_popescu: x.x

15:55:58 mircea_popescu: cron and init. more like sex than you'd have ever guessed.

15:56:09 mod6: :D

15:56:49 jurov: also, i don't see steps to avoid systemd in that doc

15:57:12 jurov: iirc systemd does not do /etc/local.d

15:57:58 mod6: hmm. now that, i do not know. once I get it up and going, i'll have to see what kinda clown cars are spinning in there.

15:58:16 *: mod6 is not a linux ninja

15:58:48 jurov: dat's good. since ninjas were assassins

15:59:03 jurov: and gavin's bitcoin ninja

15:59:10 jurov: :D

15:59:11 mod6: haha, i saw that

15:59:14 mircea_popescu: lol

16:03:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114239 @ 0.0002443 = 27.9086 BTC [+] {2}

16:08:28 mod6: <+jurov> iirc systemd does not do /etc/local.d << ok so yeah, i have these: 00_getsshkey.start 00_getsshkey.stop in /etc/local.d

16:08:48 mod6: there are a bunch of scripts in /etc/init.d

16:09:32 mod6: and under /etc/systemd there is one directory, 'network', which has nothing in there.

16:09:32 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

16:11:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: THE DAMNED GPG KEYS!111 << dealing with sks retardation; see log

16:11:52 mircea_popescu: i know i know. i'm just being managerially helpful over here.

16:11:59 jurov: mod6 try looking into /var/log/rc.log

16:12:01 ascii_field: mircea_popescu always h3lpfu11!

16:12:45 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120816 << the 'micronations' derpage has been going on since '70s

16:12:45 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 14:24:26; mircea_popescu: "The Liberlanden goverment seems to have a lot of plans for the future. Paraduin appears to have no plans. Why clutch the control of a nation which you have no intrest in?" << wtf is with these retarded children. they're comparing their reality on the grounds of the extension of their hopes and dreams now ?

16:13:12 ascii_field: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#900429

16:13:12 assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 19:27:57; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strauss is a (now very old) man who was involved with some of the '70s derpistans (actual attempts at island 'nations' by american jokers). worth reading if only for zoological purposes.

16:14:48 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 try looking into /var/log/rc.log << there is no rc.log

16:15:30 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120940 << process memory map

16:15:30 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 15:22:21; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how did you find that in bitcoind? a derpy grep through the 0.5.3 source doesn't show iconv anywhere.

16:16:09 mircea_popescu: sometimes i suspect you read a lot more than me

16:16:11 jurov: mod6: then enable rc_logger in /etc/rc.conf and after reboot you'll see whole startup

16:16:19 mircea_popescu: but it's understandable - i got a lot to write :D

16:16:32 mod6: jurov: ok thx

16:16:57 mircea_popescu: !up dhill

16:17:13 dhill: greetings

16:17:28 *: ascii_field cheats by writing less, yes

16:17:54 mircea_popescu: you this fellow https://github.com/dajohi ?

16:17:56 assbot: dajohi (David Hill) · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1F47hpG )

16:17:56 *: ascii_field writes a good bit but mostly garbage for machine rather than words for men

16:18:09 mod6: rebooting...

16:18:12 dhill: yes i am that fellow

16:18:18 mircea_popescu: so get in teh wot.

16:18:37 mircea_popescu: and yes we're broadly aware of btcd.

16:18:39 mircea_popescu: !s btcd

16:18:40 assbot: 93 results for 'btcd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=btcd

16:18:40 punkman: "retarded children" -> "Representatives from the Confederation of Âûtia, a micronation for people on the autism spectrum, visited the [Liberland] area on 17 April 2015, but the Croatian police prevented the planting of their flag."

16:19:04 mircea_popescu: punkman were they actually trying to plant anything ?

16:19:21 dhill: new release today

16:19:35 punkman: I'm just wondering how many people want that little piece of land

16:19:59 jurov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland lol already a thing acc.to pediwikia

16:20:00 assbot: Liberland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1F47r0l )

16:20:04 mircea_popescu: punkman danube delta's pretty sweet spot. heck, 500 different migratory tribes tried to get it.

16:20:43 jurov: williamdunne: how comes pediwiki goes with such fad?

16:21:22 dhill: btcd is replacing leveldb. should be much faster soon.

16:22:19 jurov: dhill, with what?

16:22:22 dhill: boltdb

16:22:24 williamdunne: jurov: Almost anyone can publish, anyone has a large variety of interests

16:22:43 dhill: github.com/boltdb/bolt

16:23:09 jurov: williamdunne you know what i mean. "almost everyone" has usually stuff taken down cuz not noteworthy

16:23:10 punkman: dhill, why u no sqlite

16:23:50 williamdunne: jurov: I don't really know enough about the demographics of the high-priests of WikiPedia to say anthing too intelligent. But I'm guessing they think it has a chance

16:24:05 mircea_popescu: jurov "everyone". there's stuff the pedos in charge like. that stays.

16:24:12 dhill: we started with sqlite. but it requires cgo.

16:24:21 punkman: what?

16:24:36 mircea_popescu: there's no pure go sqlite ?

16:24:48 dhill: i have a postgresql branch :)

16:24:51 punkman: ahh btcd, never mind, thought we were talking about bitcoind

16:25:06 mod6: ok jurov: got the log; I don't see any reference to systemd in there -- but keep in mind this is the parent system.

16:25:10 punkman: so sqlite didn't work out well for you?

16:25:13 dhill: i don't think there is a pure go sqlite? we used mattn's.

16:25:15 mod6: lemme post.

16:25:47 mircea_popescu: !up davec

16:26:01 jurov: mod6 if the guest does have /etc/rc.conf then it's not systemd, tha'ts ruled out

16:26:02 dhill: davec is lead on btcd

16:26:06 ascii_field: dhill: please say a little re: your choice of prog. lang.

16:26:18 ascii_field: davec ^

16:26:37 dhill: golang or c is basically all i can stomach.

16:26:52 ascii_field: so why was the former chosen ?

16:27:31 dhill: autoconf, different OSs, etc

16:28:35 dhill: a huge one is test coverage

16:28:56 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 if the guest does have /etc/rc.conf then it's not systemd, tha'ts ruled out << ok *whew*. so yeah, both the parent and the chroot *have* /etc/rc.conf

16:29:01 dhill: golang reports which lines of code were never hit in test coverage.

16:29:20 davec: integrated test infrastructure, no active memory management (therefore no buffer overflows and all of the other common security issues that come with it), standard formatting, platform independent code without the need for an installed runtime (ala JRE), excellent concurrency primitives, built-in profiling, and documentation facilities, etc

16:29:35 ascii_field: davec: ordinary gprof does this for c, cpp, even fortran

16:30:22 davec: sure, it not impossible ot do with other, but it's not as nicely integrated nor part of the culture

16:30:41 mod6: here's that log from the parent gentoo, if you still care: http://dpaste.com/1ZPNT0S.txt

16:30:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F48mxW )

16:31:13 jurov: mod6 i meant *all* paths inside the chroot. so if rc_logger="YES" then you'll get the log where hopefully you'll have any error messages from the local script

16:32:02 dhill: davec, what was the db read time for both leveldb and boltdb?

16:32:06 dhill: huge difference..

16:33:48 mircea_popescu: !h

16:33:48 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

16:34:02 mircea_popescu: you two seriously should tkae a few minutes and register your keys.

16:34:23 mircea_popescu: it'll be valuable later on, and you'll regret not doing it sooner.

16:37:18 dhill: oh i need a pgp key

16:37:44 mircea_popescu: yes.

16:38:51 jurov: dhill, davec, and don't forget to gpg-sing all stuff you publish, esp. binaries

16:38:57 mircea_popescu: ascii_field shockingly enough, i suspect he actually has a point re the culture. somehow golang has this, whereas java or ruby do not.

16:39:11 dhill: jurov: we sign our releases

16:39:15 mircea_popescu: i have no idea how the hell one fashionable language managed to do it, but i am definitely curious.

16:40:57 mod6: !up ascii_field

16:41:02 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 'year zero' where there isn't maxint lines of existing legacy crud that spews ten quintillion profiler errors - is why the 'culture' thing is less impressive than it sounds

16:42:38 kakobrekla: from some random source, and I quote; " * Module to easily and possibly securily sign strings."

16:45:46 mircea_popescu: ahahah

16:45:54 mircea_popescu: ascii_field might well be yeah

16:48:07 jurov: !up dhill

16:48:43 davout: kakobrekla: nice

16:51:54 mircea_popescu: ascii_field to be perfectly honest, i suspect a dark eminence over at google had something to do with it too

16:51:56 mircea_popescu: no idea who tho

16:52:57 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: pike ?

16:53:41 mircea_popescu: maybe

16:53:53 mircea_popescu: they do credit thompson as a designer too

16:54:40 mircea_popescu: now if anyone should know the importance of culture...

16:54:52 williamdunne: Possibly 15 years and becoming a registered sex offender for sex on the beach

16:54:52 williamdunne: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article20191164.html

16:54:53 assbot: Couple found guilty of having sex on Florida beach | Miami Herald Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMODOa )

16:55:12 mircea_popescu: williamdunne yo where's the scoopbot

16:55:59 williamdunne: lawd knows

16:56:09 williamdunne: Should be on a server soon

16:56:18 mircea_popescu: that "sex offender" thing suffered as badly on the libertard threadmil as rape. nobody cares anymore.

16:56:24 davout: williamdunne: get it a cloak

16:56:40 mircea_popescu: used to be someone being an alleged rapist was a big deal. these days, it just mean kid went to college and wasn't entirely autistic

16:57:26 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I think the problem is that a bunch of people are legally obligated to care, and apparently little background info is provided

16:57:37 williamdunne: i.e raping a kid looks the same as shitting in a park

16:58:01 ascii_field: from article, looks like fella had priors

16:58:15 mircea_popescu: ascii_field by the looks of elissa... im sure he did.

16:58:21 ascii_field: so it is quite like the 'life term for stealing candy' case from '90s

16:58:58 mircea_popescu: "Video played in the courtroom during the 1- 1/2-day-long trial showed Alvarez moving on top of Caballero in a sexual manner" << does this actusally mean he pegged her ?

16:59:39 ascii_field: http://www.takepart.com/article/2012/07/03/steal-pizza-die-prison << re: candy thief

16:59:40 assbot: Californians Could Reform the Three Strikes Law | TakePart ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMPkad )

16:59:40 williamdunne: Yeah but the woman is looking to go to jail too

17:00:10 mircea_popescu: The state will ask for jail time for Alvarez and prison time for Caballero. "We gave them a reasonable offer, what we felt was reasonable, and they decided it wasn't something they wanted to accept responsibility for," Dafonseca said. "Despite the video, despite all the witnesses."

17:00:14 mircea_popescu: you have GOT to be shitting me.

17:01:16 *: mircea_popescu last had sex in public... last month.

17:01:27 mircea_popescu: since when are the non-fuckers making the rules ?! wtf is this, grammar school ?

17:01:45 ascii_field: 'you'll starve again unless you learn the meaning of the law' (TM) (R)

17:02:27 williamdunne: you pedo

17:02:33 williamdunne: *sex offendor

17:02:44 mircea_popescu: actually... if the children are watching me fuck, they're adultos.

17:02:53 mircea_popescu: pedo is when I watch *them*

17:03:43 williamdunne: What about awkward eye contact during the fact? Is that a rape?

17:04:27 mircea_popescu: awkward eye contact ?

17:04:46 mircea_popescu: if you have time for eye contact, you gotta bring more bitchez next time.

17:05:59 mircea_popescu: In 2000, repeated non-violent thief Louis Rodriguez was sentenced to a Third Strike life in prison sentence for stealing a candy bar and some cheese from a Los Angeles grocery store. After more than eight years behind bars, he died in a prison hospital from terminal liver failure. At the end of his life, he wound up costing California taxpayers more than $100,000 a year in housing and medical expenses.

17:06:16 mircea_popescu: bwahaha. "your honor, i'm a diabethic. better cut the sentence in half."

17:07:05 mircea_popescu: "In 2004, Californians voted on Proposition 66, which would have undone the state?s three strikes law. Polls showed 74 percent of voters supported the bill, but a zero-hour negative ad push by the California Peace Officers Association, then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and most of the law enforcement community turned public sentiment against it. The bill wound up failing by a 53 to 47 percent margin."

17:07:10 mircea_popescu: "public sentiment" my foot.

17:08:22 mircea_popescu: http://www.laopinion.com/sex-beach-playa-caballero-alvarez << the video if anyone cares.

17:08:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMQF0E )

17:08:41 williamdunne: Cheers

17:10:50 williamdunne: I mean they're pretty clearly fucking, but not sure what difference that makes

17:11:10 williamdunne: !up ascii_field

17:11:14 mircea_popescu: yeah, they are. they suck at it too.

17:11:50 williamdunne: Pretty boring clip, especially stupid that they didn't even try and conceal it

17:12:11 mircea_popescu: well if they were gonna conceal it, might as well went to a room

17:12:54 williamdunne: From my understanding some people enjoy the thrill of doing it in public, no? Doing it in a way that is less than obvious but still public surely would still deliver the same thrill

17:13:44 mircea_popescu: the principal reason to fuck in public is to manifest your ownership of the public space, specifically against putative/imaginary/hallucinated ownership by people like the woman that made the video.

17:14:02 mircea_popescu: the point is to humiliate and bother her, and to enact, especially for her benefit, her social inadequacy and inferiority.

17:14:58 williamdunne: Not a reason I've heard before, but fair nuff'

17:15:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48081 @ 0.00023278 = 11.1923 BTC [-]

17:15:45 danielpbarron: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3068709/Mother-23-confesses-having-sex-giving-drugs-boy-15-just-three-years-arrested-charged-having-sex-two-DOGS.html

17:15:46 assbot: Brittany Sonnier, 23, confesses to having sex with boy, 15 and two dogs | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMRPte )

17:15:48 mircea_popescu: im sure there's people doing it out of infantile fixation, too.

17:16:18 danielpbarron: "The boy reported the relationship after he grew concerned that Sonnier may have given him a venereal disease

17:16:21 danielpbarron: Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3068709/Mother-23-confesses-having-sex-giving-drugs-boy-15-just-three-years-arrested-charged-having-sex-two-DOGS.html#ixzz3ZHkwhtTD

17:16:23 assbot: Brittany Sonnier, 23, confesses to having sex with boy, 15 and two dogs | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMRWVJ )

17:17:34 williamdunne: Shame about the face

17:17:48 mircea_popescu: sounds about like the daily mail

17:18:50 mircea_popescu: for the record, i knew a chick that had a relationship with her dog.

17:19:01 williamdunne: "relationship"

17:19:26 mircea_popescu: hey, dog spent the night, k ?

17:19:55 williamdunne: Did it make breakfast in the morning?

17:19:58 williamdunne: Did she borrow his shirt?

17:20:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75238 @ 0.00023173 = 17.4349 BTC [-] {2}

17:20:15 ben_vulpes: in what world does the guy cook in the am?

17:20:45 mircea_popescu: ^

17:21:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169562 @ 0.00022165 = 37.5834 BTC [-]

17:21:14 mircea_popescu: anyway, dog ended up with strange ideas about the world, scared the shit out of this chick i visited with once.

17:21:26 ascii_field: unrelated: therealbitcoin is still unbuildable for cross-arm using anything but old makefile + my (unmerged) portatronic patch

17:21:59 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Good point

17:24:12 mircea_popescu: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/04/14/284CF10100000578-0-image-a-14_1430747845405.jpg << lulzy teenage controversies

17:24:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JOoggU )

17:24:20 mircea_popescu: "men make me sick! i'd know!"

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: in other news,

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: Subject: Holded invoice alert

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: Be adviced that your invoice include bad values. Look at the invoice and make amounts.

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: Jane Roberts, CFO

17:35:09 williamdunne: I wanna beat someone over the head on #bitcoin

17:40:02 ascii_field: unrelated: i know folks who want to lease respectable servers for btc

17:40:14 ascii_field: was there any public movement on this front, at any point ?

17:40:31 mircea_popescu: lease as in to acquire or lease as in, to give away

17:40:38 ascii_field: the former

17:40:54 ascii_field: (afaik the latter would be 'let' in engl.)

17:41:02 mircea_popescu: it would yeah.

17:41:29 mircea_popescu: motherfucker am i going to end up with a btc isp on top of everything ?

17:41:35 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

17:41:49 ascii_field: isp l0l sure

17:42:13 mircea_popescu: those people can get respectable servers once they're in l1.

17:42:46 ascii_field: actually fella is in my chain gang - diametric - and is in l1

17:43:46 mircea_popescu: o hey, haven't seen him in a while.

17:43:55 ben_vulpes: didn't he drop his keys on the floor?

17:44:17 mircea_popescu: he did ?

17:44:32 ascii_field: nope that was another bloke

17:46:57 diametric: i'm still alive

17:47:02 diametric: i've just been busy

17:47:12 ascii_field: there he is.

17:47:31 diametric: yes i'd pay for a server with btc.

17:47:44 ascii_field: diametric does actual work. while i distract him.

17:47:54 diametric: sometimes

17:51:13 BingoBoingo: !b 2

17:51:13 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2HMT9N1.txt )

17:52:26 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-01-2015#983559 << seems what you want isn't a mining pool, rather just a working implementation of atomic swaps talking to a node on each fork

17:52:26 assbot: Logged on 19-01-2015 17:00:31; mircea_popescu: davout http://fraudsters.com/2015/rfc-the-gavin-assassinsen-memorial-mining-pool-implementation/ there you go, degraded to rfc.

17:57:13 scoopbot_revived: News! Gravatar still sucks URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/gravatar-still-sucks/

18:14:24 williamdunne: http://gavinandresen.ninja/block-size-and-miner-fees-again

18:14:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JOsCVh )

18:15:04 *: Adlai likes the "Now read this" closing each post. So say we all!

18:19:05 pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field

18:20:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98535 @ 0.00023512 = 23.1675 BTC [+]

18:20:19 danielpbarron: no comments, no date, no author (save the url)

18:21:32 danielpbarron: link to twitter at the bottom; i guess that's where comments are supposed to go

18:36:51 jurov: damn, i could have some servers ready by now. but when i mention who my clients are....

18:41:05 mod6: finally.

18:41:22 mod6: got it working, logged into gentoo instance built with my own stage3 ami

18:41:42 mod6: ec2-user@ip-172-31-7-151 ~ $ uname -a

18:41:42 mod6: Linux ip-172-31-7-151 3.18.11-gentoo #1 SMP Sun May 3 14:58:30 CDT 2015 x86_64 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2670 v2 @ 2.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

18:41:45 mod6: ec2-user@ip-172-31-7-151 ~ $ ps aux | grep "init"

18:41:48 mod6: root 1 0.2 0.0 4248 1508 ? Ss 13:33 0:01 init [3]

18:42:19 mod6: gentoo stage3, amd64, hardened, nomultilib

18:43:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71900 @ 0.00022736 = 16.3472 BTC [-]

18:43:57 trinque: mod6: nice job

18:44:13 jurov: yea

18:46:10 mod6: thx :]

18:46:54 williamdunne: jurov: What problem is who giving you?

18:47:18 jurov: "we have enough ddoses already no thanks"

18:47:39 jurov: i was searching for a partner who already does some dc stuff

18:47:43 mod6: lol, i didn't emerge sudo

18:47:48 mod6: smh

18:48:01 jurov: this happened. som now i'm on my own trying to put some setup together

18:48:35 williamdunne: Who did you say your customers are?

18:48:47 jurov: "bitcoin"

18:48:54 williamdunne: Wait srsly?

18:48:58 williamdunne: I've never had trouble with that

18:49:24 williamdunne: Probably for the best anyway, it they're that faggoty they'll give up the moment a DMCA/Subpoena comes through the post

18:49:43 jurov: !up ascii_field

18:50:33 jurov: i was kicked out of bitvps myself due to ddos, myself

18:51:00 thestringpuller: jurov: < gavinandresen> jurov: I said I asked economists review my ‘block size economics’ post, and they did (and gave valuable feedback). It would be a full-fledge research project to estimate the impact of a technical change like increasing the max possible block size, I think

18:51:20 jurov: ^yes, thins needs no further comment

18:51:48 jurov: research would be too much, just keep kicking the can

18:51:49 williamdunne: Thats stoopid, definitely needs to be someone who doesn't care

18:53:05 jurov: still asking around, hopefully this time i'll end up with something

18:53:38 williamdunne: I would offer to help but not sure how much I could do without being physically there

18:54:08 jurov: yea, demand is for trustworthy machines ill put together myself

18:54:22 jurov: but i can run the whole setup by you, definitely

18:55:55 mircea_popescu: <jurov> damn, i could have some servers ready by now << aha ?

18:56:04 mircea_popescu: wd mod6 !

18:56:17 wyrdmantis: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/05/05#l1430850750 << Lolz, Adlai strikes tru

18:56:18 assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1GYHfVg )

18:56:50 mod6: mircea_popescu: ty :]

18:56:56 mircea_popescu: what fucking "economists" for crying out loud.

18:57:26 mircea_popescu: the only economists qualified to discuss bitcoin are here, and afaik the consensus is "gavin is too dumb to understand how ridiculous he is"

18:59:25 danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, there's more than one way to attack a scamcoin (re: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/05/05#l1430843591 )

18:59:26 assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1GYHKi3 )

18:59:40 mircea_popescu: shit, what have i started

19:01:20 mircea_popescu: jurov i don't understand this ddos thing. were you renting a vps ?

19:01:28 jurov: yes

19:01:32 mircea_popescu: ah.

19:05:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154750 @ 0.00023458 = 36.3013 BTC [+] {2}

19:11:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148450 @ 0.00023984 = 35.6042 BTC [+] {2}

19:12:21 ascii_field: 192013

19:12:56 ascii_field: 120309 (pogo, fired up ~2hr ago, currently ~50% ram used)

19:17:48 williamdunne: jurov: That'd be cool

19:23:55 mod6: !up ascii_field

19:31:11 williamdunne: I think the biggest issue will be physical security

19:31:31 williamdunne: Could do with some way of disabling power when certain triggers happen

19:31:54 ascii_field: wai wat

19:31:54 williamdunne: Which would drop any decrypted stuff hopefully

19:32:06 williamdunne: Jurov's DC idea

19:33:03 jurov: i can't do everything at once, such shenanigans may be added later

19:34:46 williamdunne: Sure, I appreciate that. Still better than most the crap out there

19:35:23 williamdunne: Roughly where in the world are you located? I know its Slovakia/Slovenia, but NESW?

19:35:48 jurov: if you read the logs, mircea supects someone gave the rack a hefty kick, damaging multiple drives in the raid

19:36:00 jurov: what's nesw?

19:36:21 jurov: apparently no data leaked bud rebuild was needed

19:36:42 williamdunne: North East South West

19:36:51 jurov: bratislava, slovakia

19:39:16 williamdunne: Ah, if East could have access to some stuff in Ukraine easily. Can't imagine they would care too much for any bullshit, bigger stuff to deal with

19:39:38 jurov: but i don't know anyone i can trust in ukr

19:40:03 jurov: and ahuling servers throught the border can be pita

19:40:08 jurov: *hauling

19:40:34 trinque: going to need a #b-a undersea base

19:40:49 trinque: or space station

19:41:01 williamdunne: SeaStead

19:41:06 williamdunne: Volcano anyone?

19:41:17 jurov: liberland is actually closer than ukr or sea from here

19:42:05 williamdunne: Liberland might actually be a cool option, although no-one recognizes it yet so no-one would criticize the US for raiding a DC there, no?

19:42:08 williamdunne: http://robocraftgarage.com/media/build/original/6b11da/abaed388b146946c2f0ec8bc26.png

19:42:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKgSRu )

19:42:11 jurov: but then i can prolly drop the servers into danube, either :DDD

19:43:33 jurov: we have our own secret service to raid the dc. and when they do it, they take everyone's stuff :D

19:43:54 williamdunne: Thats clever

19:44:22 williamdunne: And then promptly apply a healthy dosage of thermite to the HDDs

19:45:41 jurov: nice fantasy, but that would make my situation worse

19:46:00 williamdunne: And more expensive

19:46:34 williamdunne: What do you need, and is there anything I can help with. I'll happily speak to a couple of them for you, I've made harder sells before

19:46:46 jurov: couple of whom?

19:46:56 williamdunne: Potential DC people

19:47:16 williamdunne: The ones who previously turned down because of DDoS

19:48:22 BingoBoingo: williamdunne> Liberland might actually be a cool option, although no-one recognizes it yet so no-one would criticize the US for raiding a DC there, no? << Downside, no credible army makes Liberland easy to annex. Look at how easily Croatia bullies them.

19:48:52 mats: arxiv.org/pdf/1504.05647v1.pdf "A New Covert Channel over Cellular Voice Channel"

19:48:59 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Has Croatia bullied them yet? All I've seen is the border closed which seems sane if its a separate country

19:49:39 jurov: lol. for example https://sk.linkedin.com/in/jbednar is locally recognized linux/libertard activist that has a company (digmia.com) which does some hosting, too

19:49:41 assbot: Juraj Bednar | LinkedIn ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKhExV )

19:50:04 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: But closed in which direction? If I recall they blocked people from leaving croatia... May be recalling wrong

19:50:50 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I think they're not stopping anyone doing anything, just doing passports or summin

19:51:06 jurov: they tried to enter from croatia by road and ford, customs stopped them and barred the road

19:51:25 ascii_field: mats: ripoff of old paper ('11, irrc)

19:51:29 ascii_field: *iirc

19:51:39 jurov: then they tried to float from serbian side of danube , croatian customs detained them, too

19:52:23 mats: ascii_field: do you remember who may have authored it?

19:53:23 ascii_field: mats: not off the top of my head, but idea was same ('speechification' modem for using stock gsm chipsets on arbitrary bits)

19:56:05 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

20:00:47 ascii_field: 'In the proposed channel, the voice call throughput was entirely occupied in order to convey covert information, and it achieved a throughput of 13 bps...' << l0l lamers

20:04:32 trinque: mod6: what'd that ext error end up being?

20:06:04 ascii_field: williamdunne et al: 'micronations' are interesting right up until you try actually using them for something (e.g., resisting usg dictate) and it gets bulldozed. so, approximately as interesting as a pistol that is guaranteed to explode in your hand.

20:06:39 williamdunne: Seems like it can only work if it gets past a certain point

20:06:46 trinque: what point?

20:06:54 trinque: having its own nukes? lol

20:06:58 mod6: <+trinque> mod6: what'd that ext error end up being? << i needed to add the correct AKI to the AMI created from the Volume Snapshot.

20:07:00 ascii_field: williamdunne, trinque: the point of effective thermonukes + delivery vehicles

20:07:20 mod6: using 'default' just isn't the right thing.

20:07:28 williamdunne: trinque: Pretty much, or at least the point of being something equivalent to Hong Kong

20:07:43 ascii_field: hong kong was tolerated until it wasn't

20:07:48 trinque: williamdunne: doesn't seem like the chinese communists have had any trouble steamrolling hk

20:07:54 ascii_field: this kind of faux sovereignty may be interesting to some folks - but not me.

20:07:58 trinque: to the extent that it is still hk it is at their pleasure

20:08:07 williamdunne: Maybe Singapore is a better comparison

20:08:17 ascii_field: precisely same thing as hk

20:08:25 williamdunne: How so?

20:08:31 ascii_field: no teeth

20:08:43 williamdunne: Don't think they are meant to be outwardly aggressive

20:08:56 trinque: it's protecting against inward agression that's the issue

20:09:13 ascii_field: letting it be known that you will wreck usg is not 'aggressive' except to usg muppet theatre

20:10:29 williamdunne: Seems to be doing well, a lot of growth there and is well off compare to Malaysia,

20:10:32 williamdunne: *compared

20:10:48 ascii_field: ben_vulpes suggests that portland is also doing well

20:10:54 ascii_field: doesn't mean a thing re: sovereignty

20:11:03 ascii_field: somewhere not far from where i stand, a cow in a barn is doing well.

20:11:26 williamdunne: Ok, I see your point

20:11:37 williamdunne: They basically aren't against any US rhetoric

20:11:41 williamdunne: Regardless of reasons behind it

20:11:46 williamdunne: So the US has no need to crush them

20:11:57 ascii_field: if anything, they are more eager to enforce usg dictate than usg proper

20:12:04 ascii_field: (e.g., hanging suspected dope peddlers)

20:12:40 williamdunne: I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if they were, off the top of my head outside of various south American shitholes I can't think of good examples of it

20:12:41 ascii_field: 'suiciding' btc exchange folks

20:13:01 williamdunne: Iran maybe

20:13:45 williamdunne: 'suiciding' btc exchange folks << eh?

20:14:02 trinque: the only things big enough to meaningfully oppose nato are russia and china

20:14:07 williamdunne: ascii_field: Think the dope one has more to do with Islam

20:14:12 trinque: certainly not some kind of sealand or things of that magnitude

20:14:33 ascii_field: williamdunne: http://rt.com/business/radtke-bitcoin-death-singapore-134 << that one

20:14:34 assbot: Bitcoin CEO found dead in Singapore, suicide suspected — RT Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKjMFK )

20:14:37 trinque: every other political entity is busy playing their relationships with those big three against each other

20:14:46 trinque: williamdunne: like Iran which you bring up

20:15:02 trinque: being able to wreck continents gives you a bit of an advantage

20:15:18 ascii_field: not just 'advantage'

20:15:27 ascii_field: it is the requisite token to even play.

20:15:29 trinque: an understatement for sure

20:16:03 williamdunne: ascii_field: Its not the only exchange in Singapore by far, it probably was a suicide

20:16:43 williamdunne: ascii_field: Somehow I think Liberland will struggle to get even a single Trident sub

20:17:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141550 @ 0.00022736 = 32.1828 BTC [-]

20:17:53 trinque: I think it's foolish to think of it in terms of that

20:18:06 trinque: like there's gonna be some grand war of liberation

20:18:16 trinque: look at the scientologists... heh

20:18:25 trinque: they worm their way inside the machine

20:18:52 trinque: break it without ever letting it see you

20:20:15 trinque: scientology's tax exempt status is a goddamn hilarious defeat of usg

20:20:22 trinque: they win.

20:20:24 ascii_field: williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2014#934786 << pertinent thread

20:20:24 assbot: Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.

20:21:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 239158 @ 0.00022736 = 54.375 BTC [-]

20:24:59 trinque: ascii_field: this is why I favor the idea of a capitalist political party more than some kind of conflict

20:25:39 trinque: International Capitalism!

20:25:42 trinque: imagine that

20:26:58 trinque: !up ascii_field

20:27:33 ascii_field: political party l0l

20:27:45 trinque: ascii_field: worked for the communists

20:27:47 ascii_field: derps will vote for own gassing, yes

20:27:54 trinque: who said anything about voting

20:28:42 trinque: point is they aren't making more dirt

20:28:50 trinque: and the dirt we have is already occupied

20:28:59 ascii_field: recall napoleon's 'can do anything you want with a bayonet but to sit on it' ?

20:29:50 ascii_field: (or was it talleyrand ? )

20:30:35 trinque: ascii_field: I understand the quote to mean that militarism is good for destroying things, not for building a place to sit, eh?

20:31:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00024175 = 8.5338 BTC [+]

20:31:28 trinque: if a major war between the largest powers breaks out, there wont be much of a place to sit either

20:31:41 ascii_field: trinque: it also means that if you're on the throne, you gotta pander to derps to some extent - because this is implicit in ruling a naturally-occurring herd containing both halves of the 'bell curve'

20:32:29 trinque: ascii_field: in TX for example I think anti-communism has teeth

20:32:39 trinque: provided the right screaming bastard to articulate it

20:33:14 trinque: TX is culturally already quite hierarchial, if not formally so

20:33:33 trinque: tons of business, and you can grab an average person off the street and get them yelling about socialism in about 5 sentences

20:34:05 trinque: were I in any position to do so, I'd encourage the states to pick fights with the federal govt

20:35:02 ascii_field: trinque: tx imports nothing from rest of usa ?

20:35:02 ascii_field: american 'anti-communism' in all ages was a cartoon idiocy

20:35:14 ascii_field: again, tx is autarkik ?

20:35:35 trinque: ascii_field: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/state/data/tx.html

20:35:37 assbot: State Exports from Texas ... ( http://bit.ly/1dLiC20 )

20:36:06 ascii_field: how is it fixed for orc control ?

20:38:43 trinque: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png

20:38:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKmHhN )

20:38:47 trinque: ascii_field: orc control how?

20:39:02 thestringpuller: https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-capacity-cliff-586d1bf7715e - "Finally, a brief word about my own background for those who don’t know me. I have spent the last five years implementing Bitcoin wallets, and before that I spent nearly 8 years at Google. Three of those years were spent on the Geo Team (Maps/Earth), where I was a professional capacity planner for one of the world’s busiest websites. Just like now, capacity pl

20:39:04 trinque: but I'd say being in a bad currency is one of the most obvious problems

20:39:20 ascii_field: trinque: this map only counts dollar-denominated payouts from usg to states

20:40:18 ascii_field: (and is it about cash flow to state gov. or to residents at large ? )

20:40:26 mats: i smell merit washing

20:41:23 trinque: mats: that's not something I can even respond to.

20:41:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2246 @ 0.00127713 = 2.8684 BTC [+] {10}

20:41:36 trinque: ascii_field: this is the ratio of federal taxes paid vs federal expenditure in the state

20:41:44 trinque: does not count defense contractors and such

20:41:49 trinque: that'd be the next question

20:41:56 ascii_field: thestringpuller: the usg muppets are in high gear, yes

20:42:35 ascii_field: what, srsly, is the next step after this idiocy, 'small blocks kill kittenz!!111!!11'

20:43:10 ascii_field: in other news, pogo blew oom at 129647.

20:43:11 mats: trinque: was referring to thestringpuller's message

20:43:46 trinque: ah my mistake

20:44:08 trinque: ascii_field: http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/ << claims 10 federal employees per 1000 in tx

20:44:10 assbot: 2015’s States Most & Least Dependent on the Federal Government | WalletHub® ... ( http://bit.ly/1dLjKTf )

20:46:32 trinque: ascii_field | american 'anti-communism' in all ages was a cartoon idiocy << not talking about mccarthy here, but the average TX business owner

20:48:13 ascii_field: trinque: put a red flag and lenin face on it and sure, allergenic; but sell it as 'farm subsidies' and welfare-subsidized min wage slaveforce and it sells just fine

20:48:55 ascii_field: to describe any kingdom where the crown is the largest economic actor in any terms other than socialist, is stark nonsense

20:48:59 ascii_field: branding does not matter here.

20:49:13 trinque: I don't think you're appraised of the cultural setting there.

20:49:30 ascii_field: cultural setting can be anything you like

20:49:37 ascii_field: but the economic reality there - communist.

20:50:15 trinque: on that point there's no disagreement.

20:51:17 trinque: but unless la serenissima intends to blast off for another planet, it's going to have to pick its battles

20:51:52 ascii_field: so far it runs the ancient cn algo of 'sit by the river and wait for your enemy's corpse to float by'

20:52:23 trinque: when the fed falls over, Texas may well secede

20:52:36 trinque: and along the way it wouldn't surprise me for that state to grow ever-more independent of it

20:52:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82032 @ 0.00023359 = 19.1619 BTC [-]

20:52:55 trinque: there are at least people there who would welcome that

20:53:03 ascii_field: will be absorbed into aztlan in less than decade.

20:53:20 trinque: I don't buy that

20:54:12 ascii_field: where is their demographic vector pointing ?

20:55:56 trinque: for one, texas is more economically powerful than mexico, at least going by bullshit GDP numbers

20:56:14 trinque: as for the ratio of ethnic mexicans there, they're not lazy socialist ticks, that's for sure

20:56:22 trinque: hardest-working people there are

20:56:31 ascii_field: cow is more 'economically powerful' than farmer, sure

20:56:38 ascii_field: hardest-working is not the only metric

20:56:51 ascii_field: there is also 'willing to butcher town at a time to prove point'

20:57:01 ascii_field: so far mexico wins

20:58:24 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:58:31 ascii_field: the aztlan thing is not about communism. it is about how there is (allegedly) an effective chingis khan operating in mexico

20:58:50 ascii_field: (by some accounts, he is dead. but new one will appear. it is good fertile ground for them.)

20:59:57 trinque: lots of military bases and equipment in TX

21:00:36 trinque: and the cops are used to dealing with well-armed gangs

21:00:52 ascii_field: there was an army, and police, in mexico as well

21:01:02 trinque: maybe in southern california; in TX you don't see much of the waving of Mexican flags

21:01:27 ascii_field: there would not necessarily be a flag - just piles of skulls

21:03:00 trinque: say this fight began

21:03:26 trinque: what do you think the massively wealthy people living in various gated communities in tx would do?

21:03:33 trinque: what the political response might be

21:03:54 trinque: seems like a prime opportunity to demonstrate the failures of "give everyone a vote"

21:03:56 ascii_field: same thing they do now - ignore the reports of poor schmucks getting beheaded, and sit pretty in their forts

21:04:39 trinque: how is this distinct from the kind of privilege often discussed here?

21:04:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00022888 = 4.5776 BTC [-]

21:05:07 ascii_field: which one

21:05:50 trinque: ascii_field: I observe that there is *already* a privileged class in TX

21:05:57 ascii_field: aha

21:06:29 ascii_field: the fella in the fort doesn't get beheaded, but he will notice that the face that shows up to collect the benjies is a different color, one day, that's all.

21:07:00 ascii_field: and then it asks for 7.62 rounds instead of benjies, at some point.

21:08:12 trinque: ascii_field: if the gangs were a real problem in TX I'd expect the population to support treating it as military action instead of policework

21:08:21 trinque: the cops themselves are already rather terrifying there

21:08:42 trinque: and that's speaking as a white male that never had much trouble with them

21:09:29 trinque: and also the fact that most (and especially the wealthy) are heavily armed there

21:09:45 ascii_field: su police were likewise intimidating. but this did not stop them from turning free agent when central gov. collapsed.

21:10:32 trinque: were there states which were more self-reliant in the SU that fared better in the aftermath?

21:10:36 trinque: I am unfamiliar.

21:10:43 ascii_field: depends on your notion of 'better'

21:11:25 ascii_field: none were both nutritionally and industrially self-contained

21:13:58 trinque: ascii_field: the prevailing politics there pre-collapse wouldn't help, I'd think

21:14:47 trinque: I'd like to find numbers on the agricultural situation in TX, but I know there's quite a bit of it

21:15:17 trinque: also re: Mexico their cashflow relies on USAians buying drugs, neh?

21:15:47 trinque: at least the power structure I understand you to be referring to

21:16:28 trinque: this could all very well be my own inability to imagine how collapse occurs.

21:16:54 trinque: still I think there's a lot culturally and economically in tx that's valuable

21:16:59 lobbes: looks like Texas gets around 102 $billion from Mexico via exports

21:17:00 lobbes: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/state/data/tx.html

21:17:02 assbot: State Exports from Texas ... ( http://bit.ly/1JOHjrw )

21:17:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94630 @ 0.00022325 = 21.1261 BTC [-] {2}

21:18:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35570 @ 0.00021959 = 7.8108 BTC [-] {2}

21:21:37 lobbes: not sure how you'd measure black market economic activity, but this article claims 25% of Mexican GDP is such:

21:21:39 lobbes: http://www.worldcrunch.com/business-finance/the-threat-of-mexico-039-s-massive-undergound-economy/shadow-economy-gdp-black-market-employment-benefits-taxes/c2s16698/#.VUkz95O0K20

21:21:40 assbot: The Threat Of Mexico's Massive Undergound Economy ... ( http://bit.ly/1JOHGlP )

21:22:04 lobbes: but, 'GDP' is dubious enough as is as a metric

21:24:13 ascii_field: http://milianw.de/blog/heaptrack-a-heap-memory-profiler-for-linux << ben_vulpes, mod6, et al

21:24:14 assbot: Heaptrack - A Heap Memory Profiler for Linux | Milian Wolff ... ( http://bit.ly/1JOHOle )

21:24:18 ascii_field: anyone tried ?

21:26:37 ascii_field: (it refuses to build on any of my boxes)

21:28:36 ascii_field: later tonight i might do a valgrind with 'massif' with --pages-as-heap=yes

21:29:31 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:29:39 ascii_field: http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/ms-manual.html#ms-manual.not-measured << it

21:29:40 assbot: Valgrind ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKrjo5 )

21:30:33 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu et al ^^

21:34:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121302 << everyone in slovakia is in bratislava.

21:34:47 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 19:36:42; williamdunne: North East South West

21:34:56 mircea_popescu: seeing how the entire country is roughly the size of the town's suburbs

21:37:12 jurov: notrly, there are other 2 million in the far end

21:38:22 jurov: but it's chumps everywhere

21:39:53 jurov: corruption scandal related to most expensive highways/km worldwide? but we're playing hockey now and must have a new national stadium built!

21:40:35 mircea_popescu: im pretty sure romania has the most expensive highway km

21:40:46 ascii_field: not usa?!

21:41:39 mircea_popescu: usa hasn't built a highway since 1985

21:41:53 jurov: it's at least 18m eur/kilometer

21:42:22 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Ohio-Serbia01.jpg << check it out, the tram conductors' corps

21:42:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKsnbq )

21:42:26 trinque: mircea_popescu: http://texas.construction.com/projects/0506_TC_Top10hwy.pdf

21:42:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKsnbD )

21:42:36 trinque: I'll convince you all that TX is the future break-away state yet.

21:43:05 mircea_popescu: http://www.antena3.ro/economic/auto/cum-arata-cea-mai-scumpa-autostrada-din-lume-9-miliarde-de-dolari-pentru-40-de-kilometri-277914.html << there. 9bn for 40 kms. BIOTCH.

21:43:07 assbot: Cum arată cea mai SCUMPĂ autostradă din lume. 9 MILIARDE de dolari pentru 40 de kilometri ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKsrIo )

21:43:37 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: (by some accounts, he is dead. but new one will appear. it is good fertile ground for them.) << Several, appear to operate on clear iterative succession.

21:43:46 lobbes: usa hasn't built a highway since 1985 << maintenance surely a money-pit though?

21:44:00 mircea_popescu: lobbes inasmuch as anything's still maintained (kinda spotty, this)

21:44:15 lobbes: true

21:45:31 jurov: ah we're doing maximal price, you beat me. they managed 75 km for 9mld.

21:45:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: we have ~4BN for a 40km road (maryland 200) here

21:45:43 mircea_popescu: can't beat teh russians.

21:45:43 ascii_field: nm, 28km

21:45:53 mircea_popescu: still not good enough!!1 :D

21:45:54 ascii_field: 4bn usd for 28km.

21:45:55 ascii_field: usa

21:46:02 mircea_popescu: 9bn for 40km. soci.

21:46:07 ascii_field: mega-road.

21:48:04 mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transport_megaprojects << gotta love the navelgazingikia.

21:48:06 assbot: List of transport megaprojects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKsPGV )

21:50:12 BingoBoingo: Illinois constantly tears up perfectly smooth rural highways for repaving with proper asphalt, the Missouri legislature debates letting their rural highways (the letter ones) revert from crude tarmac to plain macadam

21:51:18 BingoBoingo: Federalism leads to some discrepancies between bezzel projects across state lines

21:51:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121313 << a dc where dude ?

21:51:20 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 19:42:05; williamdunne: Liberland might actually be a cool option, although no-one recognizes it yet so no-one would criticize the US for raiding a DC there, no?

21:51:28 mircea_popescu: you can't build a dc atop a limb of danube silt.

21:51:45 mircea_popescu: you can't actually even build a mall.

21:52:45 williamdunne: When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.

21:53:33 mircea_popescu: the lad also has to marry the daughter of the largest tracts of open pigfarms in all england.

21:54:40 williamdunne: Thats fine, he can just take a mistress

21:54:52 williamdunne: I'm sure there would be a queer guard somewhere in the armoury

21:55:09 williamdunne: What is the male equivalent of a mistress?

21:55:32 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Locally they are building a new hospital with Obamacare bezzel in the epicenter of mine subsidence (building rules prohitbit houses with basements in the middle of tornado county the issue is so prevalent)

21:56:14 mircea_popescu: marrying http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121342 to http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-problem-of-enforcement/

21:56:14 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:06:04; ascii_field: williamdunne et al: 'micronations' are interesting right up until you try actually using them for something (e.g., resisting usg dictate) and it gets bulldozed. so, approximately as interesting as a pistol that is guaranteed to explode in your hand.

21:56:14 assbot: The problem of enforcement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GZa7N3 )

21:56:14 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: A mister

21:56:29 williamdunne: They can just tax some more to build the three following hospitals

21:56:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39750 @ 0.00022712 = 9.028 BTC [+]

21:57:04 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the logic there ? why no basements ?

21:57:09 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Well private hosptial, but it is great at milking medicaid for its part of the building

21:58:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Many of the mines are shallow enough that it's possible to dig into some supports and trigger some collapsing

21:58:38 mircea_popescu: oh, wait, you people built houses on top of an abandoned minefield ?

21:58:45 BingoBoingo: All the time

21:58:51 ascii_field: mine, as in coal

21:59:05 mircea_popescu: why the fuck ? not enough land in the usa ?

22:00:05 BingoBoingo: Nah, towns that burnt the coal got full so where the mines were become "subdivisions" with the vinyl siding and roads that occasionally crack and shift

22:00:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121371 << that's in no way related to usg. they have hanging dope peddlers forever, with a brief interruption while britain bullied them into stopping it because it had no other trade goods available.

22:00:06 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:12:04; ascii_field: (e.g., hanging suspected dope peddlers)

22:01:26 lobbes: !up ascii_field

22:01:45 BingoBoingo: ;;google belleville 15 mine subsidence

22:01:47 gribble: Planned Coal Mine Subsidence in Illinois: A Public Information Booklet: http://isgs.illinois.edu/sites/isgs/files/files/c573.pdf; Mine Subsidence - St. Clair County: http://www.co.st-clair.il.us/departments/mapping/Pages/mines.aspx; Mine collapse damages several homes - KSDK.com: http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/illinois/2015/04/09/mine-collapse-damages-several- (1 more message)

22:02:20 BingoBoingo: ;;google mine "illinois 15"

22:02:21 gribble: List of History of Illinois Coal Mine Disasters: http://www.hinton-gen.com/coal/disasters.html; Coal Mines of Franklin County, Illinois: http://hinton-gen.com/coal/franklin_mines.html; Coal and Coal Mining - Gillespie, Illinois: http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/mining.html

22:02:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121379 << dude srsly... wtf is "first meta". no woman got killed by lizard hitler because of words she wrote on her blog. whatever the pretense they were purporting to put forth, "bitcoin exchange", "intercepting cia with her dentures", etc.

22:02:23 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:14:33; ascii_field: williamdunne: http://rt.com/business/radtke-bitcoin-death-singapore-134 << that one

22:02:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00022888 = 3.8566 BTC [+]

22:02:55 BingoBoingo: ;;google st elezabeth ofallon

22:02:56 gribble: O'Fallon Medical Building - St. Eliz - St. Elizabeth's Hospital: http://www.steliz.org/services/ofallon-medical-building/; Welcome to HSHS St. Elizabeth's Hospital - St. Eliz: http://www.steliz.org/; St. Elizabeth's to move new hospital to O'Fallon, Ill.; Belleville mayor ...: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/illinois/st-elizabeth-s-to-move-new-hospital-to-o-fallon (1 more message)

22:02:59 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Currently it allows you to trade dollars for linden dollars

22:03:07 mircea_popescu: yaya.

22:03:59 BingoBoingo: A bit further north http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/illinois/illinois-district-replacing-elementary-school-ruined-by-collapsing-mine/article_ef5a27fa-df51-5c36-b52c-eaf53b1b905a.html

22:04:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121404 << ftr he's readiong between the lines correctly.

22:04:28 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:27:33; ascii_field: political party l0l

22:04:54 mircea_popescu: im not making a different country. i'm making THESE countries. let the reds make "their own country", on fucking mars preferably.

22:05:16 trinque: we're not making more dirt.

22:06:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121415 << this is by no means either well studied or soundly proven.

22:06:03 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:31:41; ascii_field: trinque: it also means that if you're on the throne, you gotta pander to derps to some extent - because this is implicit in ruling a naturally-occurring herd containing both halves of the 'bell curve'

22:06:37 *: ascii_field does not assert this hypothesis as hard fact. but bets on it

22:06:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121421 << us imports everything through tx, ca and ny. mostly tx.

22:06:51 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:35:02; ascii_field: trinque: tx imports nothing from rest of usa ?

22:08:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png << lol at the 0.30 of delaware.

22:08:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GZbKKL )

22:10:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121441 << i am very much amused at the late game, desperate attempts of the tools to play up their imaginary qualifications and generally certificatorily merit wash.

22:10:27 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:42:35; ascii_field: what, srsly, is the next step after this idiocy, 'small blocks kill kittenz!!111!!11'

22:10:46 mircea_popescu: seriously, mike hearn isn't the slimy fucktard we all know ? he's some sort of google expert now ? allow me to lulz for a spell.

22:11:22 ascii_field: expect him to wipe his arse with 7 ph.d. diplomas before this is over.

22:11:32 ascii_field: and five 'nobels.'

22:11:47 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_hearn suppose you chill it with the pretense of my-google-job-is-my-social-proof so the huge pile of embarassing emails etc won't have to be leaked. google's been embarassed enough this year already.

22:11:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:12:11 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you play bridge any ?

22:12:23 ascii_field: nope

22:12:32 ascii_field: once learned how, but not enough people.

22:12:43 mircea_popescu: okay. but you know what finessing is right ?

22:12:48 ascii_field: that deck o'cards (inherited from brother) did play a lot of it.

22:12:50 ascii_field: back in the stone age.

22:12:53 ascii_field: aha

22:13:23 mircea_popescu: myeah. so teh usg has all these minor muppets it keeps trying to use in that manner. get the majors out so they can finally play

22:13:32 mircea_popescu: except unlike bridge, irl does not have discrete mandatory tricks.

22:14:02 ascii_field: this is a kind of professional disease of agent masters, yes

22:14:07 mircea_popescu: and honestly i don't suspect the entire array actually contains one head apt enough to fucking finesse me. what is this, the future ?!

22:15:10 ascii_field: meanwhile...

22:15:11 ascii_field: 200005.

22:20:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102000 @ 0.00022888 = 23.3458 BTC [+]

22:22:24 pete_dushenski: whoa, sec makes us companies report on 'climate change.' why not make them report what they ate for lunch ?

22:24:04 pete_dushenski: so says, David Pogue, Global Director of Corporate Responsibility, CBRE

22:24:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 384430 @ 0.00021999 = 84.5708 BTC [-] {4}

22:24:17 pete_dushenski: for what that's worth

22:26:05 mircea_popescu: www.ceres.org/files/investor-files/sec-guidance-fact-sheet

22:28:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121448 << not that fine in texas.

22:28:44 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:48:13; ascii_field: trinque: put a red flag and lenin face on it and sure, allergenic; but sell it as 'farm subsidies' and welfare-subsidized min wage slaveforce and it sells just fine

22:29:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121456 << believe it or not there are people for whom this actually works.

22:29:43 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 20:51:52; ascii_field: so far it runs the ancient cn algo of 'sit by the river and wait for your enemy's corpse to float by'

22:30:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121476 << not really.

22:30:40 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 21:00:52; ascii_field: there was an army, and police, in mexico as well

22:30:45 mircea_popescu: when, this ?

22:30:51 mircea_popescu: !up wpalczynski

22:32:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121495 << this is not actually true, ftr. the police itself never turned free agent ; the army afaik didn't in ru (it did in ro, but diff story there). individuals, of course. but individuals are individuals.

22:32:46 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 21:09:45; ascii_field: su police were likewise intimidating. but this did not stop them from turning free agent when central gov. collapsed.

22:33:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00021201 = 4.2402 BTC [-]

22:34:12 Adlai: does the egyptian army count as "free agent"?

22:34:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121499 << finland, romania, poland, germany, bohemia, yugoslavia even.

22:34:15 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 21:11:25; ascii_field: none were both nutritionally and industrially self-contained

22:34:40 mircea_popescu: Adlai i would say egypt is copying the turkish style to a decent degree. turkey is afaik the only stable situation with a free agent army.

22:35:11 mircea_popescu: problem is for all the linguistic and (ancient) cultural differences, misr is still stuck in the islam pit.

22:35:51 *: Adlai didn't follow the egyptian 'spring' too closely, but it seemed to be a general process of the army becoming a free agent, and the public not disliking that sufficiently for another revolt (or not having a second army handy to oust the first)

22:36:24 mircea_popescu: was free agent b4. current fossil replaced previous (anwar saddat) at a military parade.

22:39:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121502 << you have to understand something essential about drugs : they aren't products. this in the sense that their flux isn't pull, it's push (which is why the sellers are called pushers). so no, the mexican economy does not rely on others buying drugs anymore than britain's economy relied on chinese buying opium.

22:39:17 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 21:15:17; trinque: also re: Mexico their cashflow relies on USAians buying drugs, neh?

22:39:31 mircea_popescu: the others' abjection is enforced by the forcing of drugs upon them. exactly backwards from commerce.

22:39:52 mircea_popescu: pimp doesn't "sell" meth to the crack whore.

22:40:01 trinque: that makes sense

22:40:05 mircea_popescu: pimp fleeces crack whore with the meth.

22:40:06 scoopbot_revived: News! The Chinese blackbox. URL: http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/05/the-chinese-blackbox/

22:40:23 pete_dushenski: it worx!

22:40:34 pete_dushenski: unban me plz

22:43:04 mircea_popescu: lol

22:44:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform masif is a worthy move. never used the other thing, no.

22:45:57 mircea_popescu: mod6 incidentally, a count of memory allocation of the entire codebase by function would be another worthy goal. just how much mmap, mremap, brk etc does it do.

22:49:48 mod6: agreed, so noted.

22:50:00 BingoBoingo: So yardwork story from today. This year we've had a bumper crop of what I though were bumblebees move it, turns out they are carpenter bees. Rather harmless things I'm trimming trees the squirrels planted in the flower beds and the big bees are just buzzing around pollinating the shit out of the columbine... Yellowjacket wasp gets the jump on one of the bees near me and as I retreat because fuck yellow jackets, all of the carpente

22:50:00 BingoBoingo: r bees start raping the shit out of the yellow jacket.

22:50:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lmao dat first line. SO SURREALIST.

22:51:11 BingoBoingo: Seriously

22:51:16 BingoBoingo: So surreal

22:51:30 BingoBoingo: Bodyguard bees.

22:52:21 Adlai: what is bee shit, and how does it get raped? stinging?

22:52:37 Adlai: actually the pertinent shit is that of the jacket

22:52:37 mircea_popescu: metaphors are metaphorical.

22:52:46 Adlai: the pertinent question is "stinging?"

22:53:46 BingoBoingo: Adlai: Well the stinger is part of their reproductive organ, so stinging==rape

22:54:00 BingoBoingo: ;;google yellowjacket

22:54:01 gribble: Yellowjackets Online: Welcome To The Official Yellowjackets Website!: http://yellowjackets.com/; Yellowjacket (Marvel Comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket_(Marvel_Comics); Yellow jacket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jacket

22:54:15 BingoBoingo: ;;google yellowjacket wasp

22:54:16 gribble: Yellow jacket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jacket; How to Kill Get Rid Yellow Jacket Nest | Yellow Jacket Control: http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/yellowjackets.htm; What is a Wasp-Hornet-Yellowjacket-Bee? - Colorado State University: http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4DMG/Pests/whatis.htm

22:54:29 *: Adlai is wondering about the effectiveness of thwacking the stinger against the arthropod exoskeleton

22:54:59 BingoBoingo: Adlai: Yellowjackets look like mircea_popescu's familiar european wasp, but sting with greater effect

22:55:02 Adlai: not sure what else bees can do, though... suffocate it with honey?

22:55:24 mircea_popescu: the common polen wasp as found in yurp doesn't really sting worth a shit.

22:55:33 *: Adlai is familiar with the yellowjacket, it was the first insect to ever attack him

22:55:46 Adlai: (within surviving memory)

22:56:26 mircea_popescu: Adlai a friend living in texas at a time was covered by fire ants as an infant, during a brief break in parental care.

22:56:35 trinque: ouch

22:56:36 Adlai: re:drugs, one of my stoner friends has a theory that the real fleecers are the plants

22:56:53 mircea_popescu: imgine, leave your toddler in its thing out by the apple tree, come back with some pie, ants dragging it away

22:57:16 mircea_popescu: "we found a worm! hey everyone! big juicy worm right here!"

22:57:18 Adlai: ie, genus Cannabis, like genus Triticum before it, has domesticated the monkeys

22:57:35 mircea_popescu: Adlai on what (other than ganja) is this theory predicated ?

22:58:23 Adlai: the fact that humans, upon discovering any naturally occurring psychoactive, generally attempt to ensure its survival

22:58:40 Adlai: a notable exception to this being peyote, which has been almost driven extinct

22:58:50 mircea_popescu: grain did a lot better by this metric.

22:59:30 BingoBoingo: One of the carpenter bees on some Columbine http://imgur.com/EllagIW

22:59:31 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1PneaSB )

22:59:40 Adlai: yet peyote survives in private gardens, as does cannabis, and psilocybe, and claviceps, and...

23:00:22 jurov: if some psychoactives were eradicated, how would you know?

23:01:10 Adlai: if some trees fell silently, how would you know?

23:02:59 Adlai: oh, not to mention coca and poppies! but in the case of meth, that really is just a case of one person fucking another

23:04:12 Adlai: the pimp best at this is young kim

23:07:16 BingoBoingo: Adlai: Peyote is kind of a victim of its native environment

23:12:58 mircea_popescu: Adlai and lice, crabs, threadworms, bad clothing, warm beer, nose hairs, dresses in unflattering colors, lanky adolescent girls and cavities.

23:13:00 mircea_popescu: ya know ?

23:13:26 Adlai: not quite

23:14:13 cazalla: BingoBoingo, do you eat that columbine plant?

23:14:24 mircea_popescu: (by the way, oxyuriasis is one of the major risks of rimming)

23:15:24 Adlai: some "symbiotic" relationships are downright parasitic; others are less so

23:17:45 BingoBoingo: cazalla: The columbine are totally poisonpus

23:18:34 cazalla: BingoBoingo, so wikipedia would've got me killed for eating the leaves eh lol

23:19:32 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Leaves might not be bad. The stuff bacically crowds a flowerbed like a weed, but looks pretty so it gets to live

23:20:01 BingoBoingo: I dunno if the whole plant is poisonous, but enough parts are to leave it to the bees

23:32:26 BingoBoingo: !up teek

23:32:32 BingoBoingo: !up WolfGoethe

23:32:39 BingoBoingo: !up t4nk

23:34:56 ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> williamdunne: A mister << nice one, mister

23:38:39 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png << lol at the 0.30 of delaware. << oregon has a good ticket on the bezzletrain. and i'd wager with the new governor, will procure ever more for favored classes.

23:38:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKB5GG )

23:38:49 ben_vulpes: (also, heya holtzy!)

23:40:21 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he'd better, because the only way that thing can exist is via subsidies. like the student dorm

23:40:46 ben_vulpes: ooooooh do i have some lulz for YOU

23:40:55 mircea_popescu: we take lulz today/

23:41:03 *: asciilifeform raises periscope

23:41:12 ben_vulpes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Brown << new guber

23:41:13 assbot: Kate Brown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKBdGh )

23:42:14 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so what about it ?

23:43:34 ben_vulpes: familiar with the john kitzhaber story?

23:44:23 ben_vulpes: http://www.wweek.com/portland/tag-0-2-John+Kitzhaber.html << some stuff

23:44:25 assbot: Contents relevant to "John Kitzhaber" ... ( http://bit.ly/1EW0PPS )

23:44:41 *: asciilifeform fired up valgrind-massif with --pages-as-heap=yes

23:45:09 ben_vulpes: http://www.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2015/02/12/the-john-kitzhaber-and-cylvia-hayes-scandal-a-handy-primer << some shorthand

23:45:14 assbot: The John Kitzhaber and Cylvia Hayes Scandal: A Handy Primer | Blogtown, PDX | Portland Mercury ... ( http://bit.ly/1EW0Xia )

23:45:40 ben_vulpes: guy got in bed with a girl

23:45:53 ben_vulpes: girl took him for a few tens of ks or hundreds, depending on how one looks at it

23:46:02 ben_vulpes: leveraged herself into a "first lady of oregon" type situation

23:46:12 ben_vulpes: (not even married, lolariously)

23:46:15 mircea_popescu: what part of this is the scandal ?

23:46:20 danielpbarron: Brown is the state's second female governor, after Barbara Roberts, as well as the first openly bisexual governor in US history.

23:46:24 ben_vulpes: y'know i've yet to figure that out myself

23:47:25 mircea_popescu: i don't get it, so dude has a girlfriend.

23:47:35 ben_vulpes: the funny part is how bent people got

23:48:43 mircea_popescu: does nobody in oregon have a gf ?

23:49:03 ben_vulpes: the kind that work, pay for themselves, refuse to suck cock - sure

23:49:08 mircea_popescu: in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

23:49:09 assbot: George Carlin ~ The American Dream - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EW1hgM )

23:50:43 mircea_popescu: if only it were the case that people are lazy and stupid because lizard hitler.

23:50:52 BingoBoingo: !up jonvaage

23:50:53 mircea_popescu: yo t4nk fix that connection before you end up on a ban list.

23:51:15 BingoBoingo: !up t4nk

23:51:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 280300 @ 0.00020858 = 58.465 BTC [-] {2}

23:51:43 BingoBoingo: Ah Oregon, the success story founded by the Klan

23:54:53 ben_vulpes: ethnic homogeneity is a heckuva legacy

23:55:19 BingoBoingo: Well, its true.

23:56:35 ben_vulpes: don't i know it!

23:56:37 ben_vulpes: and live it

23:57:30 BingoBoingo: I've seen the legacy sprinkeled about around here, but nothing on the scale you got going on

23:58:14 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121663 << as far as i can tell, the db isn't fully synchronous...

23:58:14 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 22:45:57; mircea_popescu: mod6 incidentally, a count of memory allocation of the entire codebase by function would be another worthy goal. just how much mmap, mremap, brk etc does it do.

23:58:30 ben_vulpes: mod6, trinque, asciilifeform, anyone else interested in the "what happens in der clord": http://slides.com/technolo-g/intro-to-unikernels-and-erlang-on-xen-ling-demo

23:58:31 assbot: Look ma, no OS! Deploying an Erlang/OTP application as a LING unikernel in EC2 by Matt Bajor ... ( http://bit.ly/1KKCwoD )

23:58:46 trinque: interesante

23:58:52 jonvaage: How much good does homogeneity help if the predominant culture is fucked?

23:59:23 *: asciilifeform enjoyed the original erlang book, but did not enjoy attempting to write in it

23:59:54 asciilifeform: ('concurrent prog. in erlang', armstrong 1996)

23:59:55 ben_vulpes: jonvaage: and how'd you know anything about culture around here?

23:59:56 jurov: !down ben_vulpes