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Transcript for 05-08-2015, 1984 lines:

00:12:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.0005168 = 26.2018 BTC [-]

00:26:59 BingoBoingo: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhK9j5aY3lFfCD9036

00:27:00 assbot: Needed Her Money: Alleged Prostitute Rides On The Hood Of A Cop's Car! | New Video ... ( http://bit.ly/1IWz0e0 )

00:41:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98235 @ 0.00051292 = 50.3867 BTC [-] {4}

00:47:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145274 @ 0.00050124 = 72.8171 BTC [-] {3}

00:49:46 scoopbot_revived: US DoD May Surrender Substantial IPv4 Address Territory http://qntra.net/2015/08/us-dod-may-surrender-substantial-ipv4-address-territory/

00:50:50 BingoBoingo: Loosing to ISIL and the Internet

00:50:54 BingoBoingo: *Losing

00:51:04 BingoBoingo: Loosing comes later... in the ass

00:55:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12976 @ 0.00049661 = 6.444 BTC [-]

00:58:16 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

00:58:23 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 284.13, vol: 6222.69687933 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 280.56, vol: 5019.50454 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 285.08, vol: 11510.87784978 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 291.84, vol: 0.51593653 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 283.61277, vol: 10554.99960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 282.7, vol: 36.60723768 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 286.027924, vol: 32.92292037 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

00:58:26 BingoBoingo: ;;more

00:58:26 gribble: 283.757614044

00:58:32 BingoBoingo: Needs moar drama

01:27:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00050801 = 24.3337 BTC [+]

01:38:53 decimation: no, you see bitcoin is unusable because the btc/usd price swings wildly

01:39:32 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

01:39:35 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224678 << wanna bet this will be parcelled out for strictly nominal fee (if any) to favourite sons? just like fucking radio spectrum

01:39:35 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 00:49:46; scoopbot_revived: US DoD May Surrender Substantial IPv4 Address Territory http://qntra.net/2015/08/us-dod-may-surrender-substantial-ipv4-address-territory/

01:39:37 gribble: Current Blocks: 368449 | Current Difficulty: 5.227830484559168E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 368927 | Next Difficulty In: 478 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47150109359.0 | Estimated Percent Change: -9.80941

01:39:40 BingoBoingo: Seems like the most stable thing

01:41:29 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << wanna bet this will be parcelled out for strictly nominal fee (if any) to favourite sons? just like fucking radio spectrum << Probably not yet. This seems like a clean return to keep the fire burning. Now later...

01:47:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20594 @ 0.00052819 = 10.8775 BTC [+] {3}

01:47:26 decimation: there are plenty of other class A blocks

01:47:47 decimation: the 'shortage of ipv4 addresses' is strictly imaginary

01:47:56 asciilifeform: all ultimately controlled by the 'international komyooonity' aka usg

01:48:16 decimation: not all of them, some are controlled by us corps

01:48:38 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IPv4_address_blocks

01:48:39 assbot: List of assigned /8 IPv4 address blocks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ma9YIW )

01:48:58 decimation: MIT has a whole class A

01:49:55 asciilifeform: whole list consists of direct crown subsidiaries of usg

01:50:03 asciilifeform: almost a literal catalogue of'em

01:50:14 asciilifeform: e.g., 'general electric', 'at&t'

01:50:17 asciilifeform: 'ford motor'

01:50:23 asciilifeform: 'halliburton'.

01:50:39 decimation: heh ham radio still has 44/8

01:50:42 decimation: I have a few of those

01:51:08 *: BingoBoingo thinks 2 meter band has promise. Still needs to get radio.

01:51:30 decimation: BingoBoingo: it's kinda like slightly less retarded CB

01:51:59 decimation: I find shortwave to be more interesting

01:52:07 decimation: but it takes years of 'reading logs' to know what's on there

01:52:10 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you may also discover the little 'secret' re: how ham folks keep usg from selling their spectrum to the highest bidder (or most favourite son)

01:52:14 BingoBoingo: Sure, but on the used market there seems to be some actually interesting rigs made for it with broad listening spectrum.

01:52:36 decimation: asciilifeform: it's a big deal, hams know their number is up

01:52:36 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: you may also discover the little 'secret' re: how ham folks keep usg from selling their spectrum to the highest bidder (or most favourite son) << The part where cellular is worthless?

01:52:44 asciilifeform: as for shortwave, virtually nobody owns their band properly speaking - the crackpot stations lease a time slot (typically, weekly)

01:52:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the part where they work as amateur stoolies for usg

01:53:00 BingoBoingo: Ah

01:53:02 asciilifeform: ratting out spectrum violators

01:53:15 asciilifeform: to the point where usg proper barely ever has to hunt for'em

01:53:26 decimation: my understanding is that the fcc doesn't give a fuck unless it interferes with broadcast radio or aircraft

01:53:35 asciilifeform: or licensee complains

01:53:38 decimation: yes, usg has been spoiled

01:53:39 asciilifeform: which is what usually happens

01:54:01 decimation: asciilifeform: they do more than just report 'pirates'

01:54:16 asciilifeform: they actively drive around, do the gruntwork, triangulate

01:54:19 decimation: for instance: http://www.arrl.org/grow-light-rfi

01:54:21 assbot: Grow Light RFI ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaabvT )

01:54:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104159 @ 0.0005338 = 55.6001 BTC [+] {2}

01:54:30 decimation: yeah, because usg is too lazy to do it

01:54:36 decimation: who else is gonna keep people off their bands

01:54:48 decimation: apparently 'grow lights' are extremely terrible rfi generators

01:55:02 decimation: to the point that they can effectively jam shortwave for miles

01:55:32 decimation: hams complain to the fcc: why aren't you cracking down on noisy-ass producers?

01:55:42 asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if there weren't some usg collusion with the manufacturers

01:55:51 decimation: hehe that's possible

01:55:55 decimation: hams would be the last to know

01:56:03 asciilifeform: there is nothing intrinsically noisy re: fucking lamp

01:56:06 asciilifeform: srsly

01:56:13 decimation: there is if you are a dumbfuck

01:56:26 asciilifeform: what are they using, arc lights ?

01:56:30 asciilifeform: it is 1870 now ?

01:57:54 decimation: apparently extremely shitty ballasts on florescents

01:58:18 asciilifeform: usg could interdict at customs. doesn't. no prizes for guessing why.

01:58:47 asciilifeform: poor idiots, broadcasting 'i am growing weed!' for miles

01:58:52 decimation: http://www.w0qe.com/RF_Interference/grow_light_electronic_ballasts.html < details

01:58:53 assbot: Grow light electronic ballasts ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaaqqD )

01:59:07 decimation: "Being anonymous and trying to fly under "the radar" is not easy when you are generating this much RF interference. The fourth item in the table was 1/2 mile away and still was easily heard on 40 meters.

01:59:15 decimation: (7 mhz)

01:59:37 decimation: yeah actually if the conditions are right you could pick that stuff up from 1000 miles away

01:59:49 decimation: spams the entire world

02:00:11 decimation: ah apparently they use 1000w high pressure sodium lights

02:01:44 decimation: I can't imagine that these lights are installed safely

02:02:26 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> poor idiots, broadcasting 'i am growing weed!' for miles << I remember freshman year of undergrad being high as fuck reading about infared indentification of marijuana and not realizing till I sobered up that they were talking grow lights and not smoke.

02:02:40 asciilifeform: l0l

02:02:47 BingoBoingo: <decimation> ah apparently they use 1000w high pressure sodium lights << Best part of spectrum for plant growth.

02:03:09 BingoBoingo: Then change color temperature to maximise flowering

02:03:09 decimation: sure, but to handle that kind of power you really should use 220v circuits

02:03:24 decimation: and non-shit magnetic ballasts, cost $$

02:03:47 BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt?

02:04:09 decimation: well, I'm assuming most installations use several of these 1000w units

02:04:26 decimation: but if you are going to do it industrially, than 480v three-phase

02:04:35 decimation: using 208v single phase strings

02:06:05 BingoBoingo: Honestly by now I'd expect them to embrace the LED efficienty or build their own reactors.

02:06:23 decimation: I think they do make LED grow lights but then you are talking $$$$

02:07:35 decimation: https://www.blackdogled.com/phytomax800.html < 800w for $2.34k

02:07:38 assbot: PhytoMAX 800 LED Grow Lights | Black Dog LED Growing Lights ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaaJln )

02:08:27 BingoBoingo: There's always $$$ involved in industry.

02:09:21 decimation: yeah but high pressure sodium is less than $500

02:09:41 decimation: granted, it's less efficent, but you gotta invest for the long term to make back that kind of money

02:10:20 BingoBoingo: Lighting really doesn't need that much time to roi.

02:10:48 BingoBoingo: Anywhere really

02:16:27 decimation: well, it appears to cost 5x up front for roughly double the efficiency

02:16:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33956 @ 0.00053373 = 18.1233 BTC [-]

02:18:21 BingoBoingo: And then add time and a low IR signature

02:19:24 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, decimation: after a certain energy cost, the balance tips to 'grow it in goatfuckistan and fly in on horizon-hugging drone'

02:19:34 decimation: heh it still produces 2730 btu

02:19:40 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Of course

02:20:09 asciilifeform: or for that matter, let transgenic e.coli piss out the active ingredients of the dope

02:20:15 asciilifeform: (e.coli don't need sunlight)

02:20:25 BingoBoingo: decimation: If serious though why go for apparatus designed for "grow"

02:20:41 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or for that matter, let transgenic e.coli piss out the active ingredients of the dope << Soon

02:20:47 asciilifeform: or not

02:21:00 asciilifeform: i can hardly think of any industry more idiotically hidebound than the dope folks

02:21:00 decimation: I suspect if were simple it would have been done already

02:21:49 BingoBoingo: There's already opiate shitting e. coli probably it will take one niche at a time.

02:22:02 asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ?

02:22:11 asciilifeform: or did they succeed in keeping this under wraps

02:22:15 decimation: same thing. I think they still grow poppies for us opiate industry

02:22:16 BingoBoingo: <decimation> I suspect if were simple it would have been done already << Why no 7nm junction consumer chips?

02:22:54 decimation: because it's neigh impossible to scale euv light sources?

02:23:37 asciilifeform: decimation: poppy is cheaper - but only when there are no armies coming at you for growing'em

02:23:57 asciilifeform: (cheapest still when there are armies ~defending~ your fields - e.g., u.s. army in afghan)

02:24:30 asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin

02:24:34 asciilifeform: i will not say that this is factual

02:24:45 asciilifeform: but i will also not say that it is an unfounded belief

02:25:05 decimation: I suspect that usg isn't too heartbroken over it

02:25:27 asciilifeform: they did help afghan restart opium

02:25:30 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (cheapest still when there are armies ~defending~ your fields - e.g., u.s. army in afghan) << Medical poppy in India, Culinary poppy in Eastern Europe, and Recreational poppy in Afghanistan

02:25:37 decimation: well, what else are they gonna grow? dirt?

02:25:41 asciilifeform: dirt.

02:26:12 asciilifeform: pushing opium at the untermenschen is a long, proud anglo tradition.

02:26:16 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin << US pretty rotten with heroin too. DEA pressure on doctors and economy will do that.

02:26:27 asciilifeform: u.s was rotting with it in 1910

02:26:42 asciilifeform: in ru it was virtually ~unknown~ until '90s

02:26:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19986 @ 0.00051451 = 10.283 BTC [-]

02:27:15 BingoBoingo: Back in 1910 US was rotting with tincures of opium. Now Zohydro is stocked to the gills in most pharmacies.

02:27:17 asciilifeform: the internashnal komyoooonity helped to change this.

02:27:38 decimation: according to wikipedia it's not legal to grow poppies for food seed/paste

02:27:49 asciilifeform: any more than hemp, for rope.

02:28:16 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-07-2015#1205975 < jurov got me interested in the european 'poppy bread'

02:28:16 assbot: Logged on 18-07-2015 21:13:26; jurov: and its brother makovník, best stuffed by so much poppy seed that it makes you very sleepy

02:28:54 decimation: http://dobruchut.azet.sk/recept/6087/makovnik-a-orechovnik/

02:28:55 assbot: Makovník a orechovník - Dobruchut.sk ... ( http://bit.ly/1MabGdq )

02:29:11 decimation: asciilifeform: surely in ru/ukraine they have something similar

02:29:21 asciilifeform: could've sworn i had this dish here

02:29:24 asciilifeform: in good old mordor

02:29:30 asciilifeform: but it was probably from an importer

02:29:37 decimation: yeah, you can buy poppy in safeway

02:29:42 decimation: poppy seeds

02:29:55 BingoBoingo: Most "medical" opiates come from Indian latex and EU straw. Seeds aren't an economicaly viable source of drug product.

02:30:48 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but it was probably from an importer << ROasted seeds are happily imported en mass.

02:33:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83767 @ 0.00051451 = 43.099 BTC [-] {2}

02:33:21 BingoBoingo: www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/04/russia_locust_invasion_swarms_of_locusts_devastate_crops_defy_government.html << Meanwhile no US news stories on the molds which are going to reduce North American grain yields substantially this year.

02:33:43 decimation: yeah it's been terribly wet in the midwest

02:35:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0005285 = 11.5742 BTC [+] {4}

02:36:09 BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.

02:36:43 decimation: yeah makes sense. looks like usg's weather bureau is calling for a cold and wet winter for the southern half of the us

02:37:22 BingoBoingo: Winter doesn't really matter much in the scheme of things outside the California desert.

02:37:36 decimation: not as far as food productiong goes, no

02:37:41 decimation: florida too

02:38:27 BingoBoingo: Dry summers kill crops. Hot wet summers kill crops. The best a we winter does here is offers crops a marginal head start.

02:39:40 BingoBoingo: This year though with the water so far has been awfully bad for orchards.

02:40:06 BingoBoingo: Peach trees are splitting left and right.

02:40:06 decimation: amusingly california is still lacking water

02:40:21 decimation: although it looks like the colorado river will be up

02:40:30 BingoBoingo: They knew it was a desert fuck them

02:40:59 BingoBoingo: Just like the rest of Aztlan

02:41:46 BingoBoingo: In a month and a half it will be interesting to see if edible apples happen this year.

02:45:08 BingoBoingo: If the apple trees start breaking up like the peach trees when they put out fruit this year that will be a double whammy rare, takes a decade to catch up damage.

02:49:35 BingoBoingo: Winter 2013-2014 we got weeks of subzero weather, but no lasting damage. Summer 2012 mega-drought (by midwest standards) best peaches ever no lasting damage. This year with a bit cooler than normal summer and lots of rain... it looks like shit is going to be expensive for a while

02:51:35 decimation: eh, people will just get apples from new zealand

02:51:41 decimation: or chile

02:52:13 BingoBoingo: Maybe? Or perhaps they just won't get apples because economy.

02:59:11 BingoBoingo: !up jordandotdev

03:00:55 decimation: what brings you here jordandotdev?

03:01:30 ben_vulpes: what brings you /back/, jordandotdev?

03:01:44 *: ben_vulpes is alive, barely

03:01:44 jordandotdev: I don't know it was in my autojoin channels list

03:01:53 jordandotdev: haven't logged into irccloud in a few weeks

03:05:19 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: WHat ails you? Kittens? Puppies?

03:06:18 decimation: ragweed?

03:06:19 ben_vulpes: an surfeit of things to do and people to do them

03:06:23 ben_vulpes: a*

03:06:52 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> increasingly, becoming a problem i nthe us, too. << tell me about it

03:07:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25971 @ 0.0005145 = 13.3621 BTC [-] {4}

03:08:27 BingoBoingo: Has giant ragweed made it that far north yet?

03:08:50 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/nrX72 << Moar streaming, Moar copyrastas

03:08:51 assbot: Major League Baseball just signed a huge deal to stream NHL content | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOO75 )

03:09:06 mircea_popescu: proposed BingoBoingo boxing partner http://41.media.tumblr.com/966fea39212db8797c6799648e7d8025/tumblr_n2ea5m0ZnX1ss63vyo1_1280.jpg

03:09:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOR2R )

03:09:36 *: BingoBoingo may lose, but would be ok with that

03:09:43 mircea_popescu: to lose is to win!

03:09:51 BingoBoingo: It really is.

03:13:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224763 << yeah, you really want "triphased" ie 380v

03:13:01 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:03:47; BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt?

03:13:17 mircea_popescu: which, in europe, costs the asking.

03:13:24 mircea_popescu: in south america simply can't be had period

03:13:29 mircea_popescu: i imagine in the us it costs note from stalin

03:14:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you got mailz

03:14:50 asciilifeform: (broadcast!)

03:14:57 mircea_popescu: cool!

03:15:38 decimation: in us you must have 'note from local stalin' ie zoning board

03:15:49 decimation: and/or local electric monopoly

03:15:50 *: BingoBoingo waiting for mails. Doing the dance again with Uni to set up job interview. This time as customer service god. Would once again take cheapest of accomodations available for the lulz.

03:16:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13031 @ 0.00050581 = 6.5912 BTC [-]

03:18:02 decimation: interesting europe does use 380v

03:18:03 decimation: weird

03:18:16 asciilifeform: in same places as usa - 240

03:18:18 mircea_popescu: yes. why weird ?

03:18:39 BingoBoingo: http://www.bnd.com/news/local/crime/article29918518.html << Apparently US bullets don't kill anymore? Or false flag?

03:18:40 assbot: Shiloh police investigating gunshots fired toward tavern | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijlo9i )

03:18:47 mircea_popescu: europe uses 220 for residential, 380 optional. or otherwise you can get a 2 or 5kv industrial line.

03:18:49 decimation: mircea_popescu: because usa uses 480v

03:19:00 decimation: for industrial three-phase

03:19:04 mircea_popescu: i think the usa 480 is used in place of the 2kv myeah

03:19:46 BingoBoingo: Fuck it, I want the raw shit before it hits the transformer. I want to light my abode with an arc stretching across the room.

03:20:39 mircea_popescu: not os healthy.

03:21:05 asciilifeform: http://i.imgur.com/KgCCvTC.jpg

03:21:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQspk )

03:21:09 BingoBoingo: Ozone isn't as bad as the cigarettes I already smoke

03:21:11 asciilifeform: ^ in the city where i wurk

03:21:22 decimation: us actually uses 240 for residential but it's delivered in two phases which are split at the panel. but it's common to use the full 240 for dryers and large equipment

03:21:44 asciilifeform: according to fishwrap, some schmuck argued with gurl. policeman busted in. he snapped, drew pistol, shot gurl, then self in the head, brainz in all directions

03:22:21 decimation: wait, schmuck or policeman?

03:22:28 asciilifeform: schmuck

03:22:32 mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely clear why the thiord phase is 160 rather than 110 in eu syste, but anywya

03:22:40 *: BingoBoingo can't wait till Fergusonversary

03:22:42 asciilifeform: possibly all the police in the county ended up at the scene. largely standing around and looking busy

03:23:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lower number is generally root-mean-square

03:23:05 asciilifeform: the higher, peak to peak sine

03:23:14 asciilifeform: this is the basic confusion of voltage oddities

03:23:16 mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to fit

03:23:24 mircea_popescu: but i'm too lazy to actually figure it, so.

03:23:48 BingoBoingo: That was a good parking garage http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/officers-won-t-face-charges-in-fatal-shooting-at-mizzou/article_5e355582-020d-564a-b61c-9348bf74194b.html

03:24:34 BingoBoingo: And further a lol only socialism can bring http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-sues-own-civil-service-commission-over-reinstatement-of/article_ff9a4c8e-9783-5d43-aefb-f52aa07180d9.html

03:24:35 assbot: St. Louis sues own Civil Service Commission over reinstatement of police officer : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQRrK )

03:24:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: approx., rms ~= 0.7071 * peaktopeak

03:24:58 asciilifeform: e.g., rms(170) ~= 120, the u.s. traditional

03:25:12 decimation: yeah for example in us 3-phase 480 volt, half (phase to neutral) is 240

03:25:18 decimation: which is what is split off and run to house

03:25:20 asciilifeform: (1/sqrt(2) for the curious)

03:25:43 decimation: typically ac voltage is worked in rms, because it acts like dc

03:25:52 asciilifeform: aha

03:26:05 asciilifeform: or rather, the rms value is the one which makes any sense to use in calculation of wattage

03:26:11 decimation: yes

03:26:47 *: decimation didn't take power engineering in ee school; had other things to worry about

03:26:55 BingoBoingo: Fuck it, it has been a while http://slashdot.org/submission/4733189/dod-surrenders-large-legacy-ipv4-allocation

03:26:57 assbot: DoD Surrenders Large Legacy IPv4 Allocation - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoR7ad )

03:27:37 decimation: my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time

03:27:48 decimation: along side 'electricians'

03:27:58 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is about as 'shocking' as when usg 'surrendered' the 'strategic helium reserve' to smiths's detection corp. to make neutron detectors to sell back to usg/dhs

03:28:42 decimation: I found it disappointing that having an ee degree counts for nothing when designing wiring for your house

03:28:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is a traditionally american type of graft, practiced enthusiastically and mostly openly since george washington

03:28:47 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't understand. If Assad did this the rope would be on Ebay

03:28:53 asciilifeform: l0l

03:29:15 decimation: asciilifeform: go try to pull an electrical permit from pg county on the basis of your degrees

03:29:23 asciilifeform: decimation: aha, it is a guild thing

03:29:31 asciilifeform: no apprenticeship, no permit

03:29:45 asciilifeform: go and get license to practice medicine on the basis of, whatever, nobel in biology

03:29:49 asciilifeform: same idea.

03:29:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cool beans

03:29:54 decimation: indeed.

03:30:21 BingoBoingo: <decimation> my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time << In hometown I once pulled permit to fuck with wiring by saying "Hey mayor Joe, sign this"

03:30:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually in ro they let you do it.

03:30:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, in ru you can even get driver license for a benjie

03:30:58 asciilifeform: (no exams, etc)

03:31:00 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not on front page yet, but may as well submit since no one else took this low hanging tomato

03:31:15 asciilifeform: almost a 'litmus' for orc lands

03:31:29 asciilifeform: can you get license without ever having touched a steering wheel

03:31:34 decimation: asciilifeform: you should try that in pg county

03:31:36 decimation: I bet it would work

03:31:41 mircea_popescu: nah, the idea is that if you get a good enough achievement, you get auto-diploma or w/e.

03:31:51 mircea_popescu: i got to bypass normal college entrance exams because olympiads.

03:32:11 decimation: us knows nothing like this

03:32:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is the basic 'orc' mechanism - someone had the liberty to say 'this kid passes, because fuck all of you'

03:32:15 mircea_popescu: so yeah, can practice medicine on basis of nobel prize.

03:32:21 asciilifeform: in usa this is unthinkable

03:32:23 mircea_popescu: nah, it was a rule per se.

03:32:27 decimation: absolutely unthinkable

03:32:35 decimation: think of all the bureaucrats that would suddenly be powerless

03:32:39 mircea_popescu: quite.

03:32:43 asciilifeform: even ~actual~ medical degree from, e.g., ussr, is specifically not recognized by usg

03:32:45 mircea_popescu: which is the very poiint of it.

03:32:52 asciilifeform: doesn't matter how many decades of practice

03:33:09 decimation: asciilifeform: yes, same for pharmacists & other medical 'trades'

03:33:14 mircea_popescu: iirc had that too. if decades of practice, valid degree by default.

03:33:27 asciilifeform: (i suppose the entrails of untermenschen differ from those of aryans, hence degree doesn't count)

03:33:29 mircea_popescu: might have been thrown out meanwhielk tho

03:33:58 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-August/078072.html << l0l

03:33:59 assbot: Leak or legit ? 11/8 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjnxBP )

03:36:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224790 << the deal is, the us keeps pretending like it's fighting and in exchange the cartels keep pretending like they're fighting too.

03:36:40 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ?

03:37:07 mircea_popescu: the idiotic non-violent behaviour of ruminants is not limited to ruminants. nobody really aims to gore the other party.

03:37:14 mircea_popescu: except maybe us, allegedly.

03:37:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my (admittedly limited) understanding is that usg play-fights with ~some~ organizations, and ~actually~ interdicts others

03:37:33 mircea_popescu: maybe

03:38:07 mircea_popescu: it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ?

03:38:15 mircea_popescu: even that got negotiated away.

03:38:27 mircea_popescu: pencildicks wanna use the heads. because dicks frangible.

03:38:28 decimation: they do when the papers say embarassing things

03:38:36 decimation: embarassing to bureaucrats

03:38:51 decimation: otherwise the bureaucrats don't give a fuck

03:39:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224797 << if you can you must and all that. recall the discussion.

03:39:18 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:24:30; asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin

03:39:18 asciilifeform: dope from 'favourite sons' - passes. from less-favourite - interdicted, to keep the jailatron lubed, and the high priesthood supplied with coke

03:39:30 mircea_popescu: heroin is really the perfect answer to the overpopulation problem.

03:39:34 mircea_popescu: reddit can't resist it, so...

03:40:05 asciilifeform: perfect answer to ~the other fella's~ 'overpopulation' yes

03:40:13 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Cloud cleanses all historicity

03:40:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2014#544231 << see also

03:40:19 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2014 01:44:19; asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.'

03:40:32 mircea_popescu: everyone's.

03:40:45 ben_vulpes: !s unable to join

03:40:46 assbot: 0 results for 'unable to join' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=unable+to+join

03:40:48 mircea_popescu: the problem is simply this : as you get successful you get fat, and that fat is then... coming to expect.

03:41:20 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? << Much of this demographic is USG. Not in the informant sense, but USG peeps needed meanign in their lives.

03:41:54 ben_vulpes: has anyone else compiled the maxint patch and received db.log errors of "unable to join environment"?

03:42:09 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: please post your debug.log

03:42:17 BingoBoingo: ^

03:42:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have not observed this, no

03:42:35 decimation: asciilifeform: did you figure out how you are gonna 'free' the data pointed to by map?

03:42:41 asciilifeform: got 3 (well, 3 public, 1 test platform) nodez running, with patch

03:42:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224830 << will make hfcs just fine

03:42:49 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:36:09; BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.

03:42:50 asciilifeform: decimation: yes

03:42:57 mircea_popescu: and besides, there's plenty stockpiled

03:42:59 asciilifeform: decimation: not ready for primetime yet

03:43:26 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0W6AR1C

03:43:27 assbot: dpaste: 0W6AR1C ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjoJoM )

03:43:29 decimation: in which cpp file is the allocation stuff?

03:43:30 asciilifeform: this is actually why only prices of ~food-grade food~ rise in usa

03:43:40 asciilifeform: of the recycled food - never

03:43:51 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Can make HCFS, but... less of it. Far less ears on the corn than I expect to see.

03:43:54 asciilifeform: decimation: nowhere. implicit destructor

03:44:14 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it stops here ?

03:44:17 decimation: my uni was across the river from massive hfcs plant. every day whole *trains* of hfcs tank cars would leave the station there

03:44:41 asciilifeform: decimation: i often watch the trains go by, where i live. often, whole train is this.

03:44:49 asciilifeform: prolefeed.

03:44:49 decimation: asciilifeform: lol no wonder 'leak'

03:45:05 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't even see it doing anything with strace

03:45:22 ben_vulpes: i'll try to nuke some state and come back with more useful information.

03:46:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you mentioned an error ?

03:46:07 asciilifeform: where does it appear

03:46:11 asciilifeform: i don't see it in the paste

03:46:24 ben_vulpes: db.log, sir.

03:46:32 asciilifeform: plz post?

03:46:56 asciilifeform: (historically, i've found that fatal problems with db typically come from a dirty death)

03:47:13 ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/2W61D9D abridged

03:47:14 assbot: dpaste: 2W61D9D ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijpcr6 )

03:47:17 asciilifeform: which is why bitcoin has to be prevented from crashing, at more or less any cost

03:47:25 ben_vulpes: myes, i agree.

03:47:35 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ~which~ patch did you apply ?

03:47:38 ben_vulpes: however the build i made on 7-15 with the dumpblock patch boots from the same datadir.

03:47:45 ben_vulpes: maxint_locks

03:47:48 asciilifeform: link?

03:48:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you check this sig ?

03:48:18 mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7

03:48:18 mircea_popescu: gpg: WARNING: signature digest conflict in message

03:48:18 mircea_popescu: gpg: Can't check signature: general error

03:48:26 asciilifeform: !

03:49:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hash of plaintext?

03:49:41 mircea_popescu: 65865b6fdb76424c2535cf7a5f203fc88a541927e3e113db5c26a82e8a0561a8ca428ebe6611b1122f5ebc88c6bf3a3bcf1306ecfb1f4b4af29200967de43fc1

03:50:02 asciilifeform: sha512?

03:50:19 ben_vulpes: the first, asciilifeform

03:50:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does not match mine!

03:50:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no nm, false alarm.

03:50:54 mircea_popescu: the hash:sha512 line got mangled.

03:50:57 asciilifeform: l0l

03:51:59 asciilifeform: what a downer

03:52:04 asciilifeform: was hoping, glass cannon fired.

03:52:04 decimation: asciilifeform: so the basic problem with the map is that it never goes out of scope?

03:52:25 asciilifeform: decimation: the point is that .clear() doesn't invoke the destructors

03:52:31 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: did you find a reason why maxint wouldn't work, or is the second patch just using mircea_popescu's lock values for 'myzteeri0us reezuns'?

03:52:40 asciilifeform: this is apparently well-known to habitual users of 'boost'

03:52:57 decimation: ah, this is a feature of 'boost'?

03:52:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: go get the first (not 'CORRECTED') version of the patch

03:53:03 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it uses maxint

03:53:06 mircea_popescu: sorry but that

03:53:06 asciilifeform: and see what it does on your box.

03:53:09 ben_vulpes: that's the one i'm using!

03:53:14 asciilifeform: ahahahahaha

03:53:19 asciilifeform: that's why yer node is dead

03:53:35 asciilifeform: guessed as much.

03:53:38 ben_vulpes: ...

03:53:49 ben_vulpes: so i am to expect that patches arriving in the ML aren't even tested now?

03:53:56 asciilifeform: it was tested!

03:54:02 asciilifeform: and correction was posted minutes later

03:54:06 mircea_popescu: lol

03:54:08 asciilifeform: recall, flagship nodes were wedged

03:54:13 asciilifeform: was a very rushed thing.

03:54:21 ben_vulpes: "here's a fix"

03:54:24 ben_vulpes: "does it work?"

03:54:26 ben_vulpes: "let me see"

03:54:26 asciilifeform: see logz

03:54:50 asciilifeform: srsly, ben_vulpes managed to install the uncorrected patch in the minutes between it and the new one ??

03:54:50 ben_vulpes: plz for to slightly more detail in patchdescs.

03:54:55 decimation: oh I thought this was all about the stl map, not boost unordered map

03:54:59 asciilifeform: did not read logz?

03:55:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.

03:55:08 asciilifeform: just 'here's a patch, i'd better eat it'

03:55:10 ben_vulpes: started at ml, canonical information repository.

03:55:24 ben_vulpes: second patch contained a link to mp's "dis wat i do, yo"

03:55:32 ben_vulpes: so ofc i /try/ first patch

03:55:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he does have a point. and normally i include some 'work of literature' with these

03:55:35 asciilifeform: but world was on fire.

03:56:04 mircea_popescu: you know world is on fire to that degree pretty much weekly.

03:56:25 ben_vulpes: not even a note in correction about "lol sry first patch doesn't work"

03:56:28 asciilifeform: eh no. my nodez ran from ignition until wedge day

03:56:32 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> was hoping, glass cannon fired. << Might never fire

03:56:34 mircea_popescu: so you're new.

03:57:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if there is every any symptom of folks reading the ml but not #b-a, it might be worth considering to use the ml as something other than a file dumping ground for #b-a

03:57:38 ben_vulpes: here's your indication!

03:57:55 asciilifeform: at any rate, ben_vulpes is invited to fill in the gap and write literature for this piece

03:58:01 asciilifeform: i gotta eat. brb

03:58:45 ben_vulpes: not that i'm not infinitely indebted to you for unwedging my coracle but a hint of context'd be useful.

03:58:54 mircea_popescu: the ml process needs some reviewing. it's sort of grown organically to a point where it's troublematic.

03:59:09 ben_vulpes: say it again.

03:59:20 mircea_popescu: for one thing, most everyone but us has a stable and a testing list.

03:59:34 mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the heroism of "fuck you, it's all stable". but then that comes at a cost.

03:59:43 mircea_popescu: the more common cop out is "fuck you, it's all testing".

03:59:54 mircea_popescu: that stance may come with a cost to the ego.

04:00:02 ben_vulpes: "all testing" which is what we've seen to date.

04:02:24 mircea_popescu: of course the logical approach would be to promote to stable ml patches that were signed

04:02:35 mircea_popescu: which is why the fuck we evern have the complexsignature scheme in place.

04:02:52 mircea_popescu: plox tell me it's not one of those where everyone is waiting for me to do it first or something.

04:03:07 ben_vulpes: i tried once

04:03:10 ben_vulpes: fucked it up somehow

04:03:43 mircea_popescu: how about submiutting a "This doesn't work - don't use it" thing on the broken one

04:03:45 ben_vulpes: i'm all for barriers to entry here but this is a goddamn development obstacle course

04:04:49 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: broken << sure, yeah.

04:06:30 *: ben_vulpes is struck by the eerie resemblance to $dayjaeorb here

04:06:35 ben_vulpes: "here have a pull request"

04:06:37 ben_vulpes: "does it work?"

04:06:43 ben_vulpes: "i don't know, let's test it during code review"

04:07:03 ben_vulpes: grand exaggeration.

04:07:07 ben_vulpes: nevertheless.

04:07:14 decimation: I'm still confused about this map thing. does anyone know exactly which map ascii is talking about?

04:07:40 ben_vulpes: decimation: i'm still 1.5klol behind

04:08:17 decimation: this is an infinite argument amoung developers: 'repo is for good code', 'no repo is for new code as it is being written'

04:09:10 ben_vulpes: dvcs means we can all have a repo

04:09:29 ben_vulpes: the fewer enforced constraints upon us, the more discipline with which we must act.

04:10:05 BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?

04:10:47 ben_vulpes: last release, i'd prefer. asciilifeform tends to stack his patches atop one another.

04:10:47 scoopbot_revived: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement http://fraudsters.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/

04:11:21 ben_vulpes: if you're up to date on the patching, submit a patch and note its antecedents.

04:11:52 ben_vulpes: this makes for quite the testing nightmare. those interested in testing must reverse applied patches to your antecedent tip and then apply yours.

04:12:14 ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.

04:12:38 ben_vulpes: but this is bitcoin, where since time immemorial people have been shipping code that can only ever be tested in production and then standing by in amazement claiming that "nobody could have predicted!"

04:13:02 ben_vulpes: !s testing in production

04:13:03 assbot: 13 results for 'testing in production' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=testing+in+production

04:13:17 trinque: hey yo, I made a lot of noise about process early on

04:13:22 trinque: then stepped back when shouted down

04:13:41 trinque: the patch signing is great, but it's not a process by itself

04:13:49 trinque: will either need tools built to support it, or will need to grab tools

04:14:12 trinque: I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead.

04:14:15 ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments

04:14:28 ben_vulpes: "a real contributor would write all of their own tooling to solve this"

04:14:36 ben_vulpes: "what's so hard about applying patches to your private repository?"

04:14:45 ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate this process that keeps the tards at bay?"

04:14:49 trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"

04:14:55 trinque: then you can you know, use a power drill

04:15:02 trinque: and still work with non-dickheads

04:15:03 ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate the nuclear power plant?"

04:15:10 trinque: hear fucking hear

04:15:36 ben_vulpes: i'm just trying to operate within these crazy boundaries. i don't have any process improvements that i'm sure wouldn't get shot down in a new york second from asciilifeform.

04:16:18 ben_vulpes: *i* have a repo. *it* has a *stable* and an *experimental* branch.

04:16:29 trinque: I bet it's in git too, you filthy swine

04:16:37 ben_vulpes: how much hell would i catch for sharing this with others?

04:16:53 ben_vulpes: of course!

04:17:10 trinque: look everything's bad. bad bad bad

04:17:28 trinque: I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table

04:17:38 trinque: gonna rebuild everything on earth? or gonna start somewhere

04:18:27 decimation: I thought ascii was okay with repos as long as it was clear which patches 'caused' the repo state

04:18:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59768 @ 0.00050358 = 30.098 BTC [-] {3}

04:19:01 ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"

04:19:07 ben_vulpes: he can correct me if i'm wrong.

04:19:08 decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside

04:19:19 decimation: (for signers)

04:19:25 trinque: you can do the same process better with a hierarchy of git repos

04:19:27 trinque: ffs

04:19:39 ben_vulpes: patches and signatures in the repository itself. i'd not be averse.

04:19:44 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works

04:20:13 ben_vulpes: i know this.

04:20:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ideas welcome !

04:20:42 ben_vulpes: can we share a git repository yet?

04:21:04 ben_vulpes: i'm not critiquing your patchstacking, note.

04:22:23 ben_vulpes: i will be off to eat shortly.

04:22:49 asciilifeform: btw the db patch is not marked with antecedents because it has none (since last release)

04:23:02 asciilifeform: (iirc the 40000 was set prior to it)

04:23:16 ben_vulpes: of course.

04:23:33 *: ben_vulpes to food

04:23:36 asciilifeform: and what's more, this is pretty clear from reading it.

04:24:34 asciilifeform: but yes, my particular ml posts are geared toward helping the folks i know to be presently involved ( ben_vulpes, mod6, trinque, mircea_popescu, shinohai, punkman, hanbot, who else?) to build.

04:24:47 asciilifeform: rather than for everyone on the planet.

04:25:18 trinque: all I'm grumpy about is having something structured to put the patches in, really, with branching

04:25:39 asciilifeform: trinque: please put, if it helps you

04:25:48 trinque: the patches page helps a bit, but for example seeing easily from where various experimental patches derive

04:25:59 asciilifeform: can even get your favourite version control gizmo to shit out patches

04:26:02 asciilifeform: (iirc ben_vulpes does this)

04:27:48 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu your www layout somehow cuts the lines on s.nsa statement

04:27:49 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:28:14 asciilifeform: ^ anyone else sees this?

04:28:21 asciilifeform: (graphical browser)

04:29:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114645 @ 0.00052851 = 60.591 BTC [+] {3}

04:30:19 mod6: it does the same for me on multiple browsers too

04:30:28 asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes i have nothing against 'git', 'mercurial', etc., and even sometimes use these in civilian life, there is even somewhere ~horror~ a 'github' page with my name and some old crud, yes. but the ~canonical walk from pedigreed 0.5.3 to therealbitcoin~ has to be in .patch form!

04:30:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:31:25 asciilifeform: it is the finger pushing in the plug into the hole the night leaks through.

04:32:16 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah my browser eats too (firefox)

04:36:08 decimation: asciilifeform: are the maps in question contained in your 'mempool zap patch'?

04:36:43 asciilifeform: decimation: they are the two maps which hold mempool state

04:36:48 asciilifeform: see the text of the patch.

04:37:44 *: decimation was seeing

04:38:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << we're not signing because it has 'upside' now. but 1) because unsigned code is 'written by no one' and hence is a work of the great satan by default implication 2) for the archaeologists 3) for the revolutionary tribunals

04:38:09 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside

04:39:15 decimation: my point is that it was made clear that anyone who signed something that fucked stuff up would suffer the negrating consequences

04:39:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-07-2015#1200332

04:39:42 assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 03:22:40; asciilifeform: a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven

04:40:53 asciilifeform: i sign xxx. the readers are then free to rate me accordingly. this is how is works, by design.

04:42:27 asciilifeform: also the continuity of identity. if, for example, my patches at some point go from tiny to elephantine, from single-purpose to 'omnibus', from deadly-simple to 'wtf is that' - folks are to presume that i have been finally killed and key is in hands of hitler. and should then rate accordingly.

04:43:09 asciilifeform: this, incidentally, is an important reason why patches need to be deedboted

04:43:16 asciilifeform: (can automate this?)

04:43:53 asciilifeform: need hard ~dates~ as well as identity.

04:44:32 asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc

04:44:47 asciilifeform: guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness'

04:44:54 asciilifeform: 'why do i have to move these sandbags?'

04:45:18 asciilifeform: 'why am i sleeping in a hole in the ground next to hole in the ground where i shat'

04:45:33 asciilifeform: 'why do i have to stand here and watch the hill'

04:46:03 decimation: part of the problem with the mailing list I see is that it's difficult to reconstruct the context of patches

04:46:04 asciilifeform: perhaps mircea_popescu will add to this illustration.

04:46:22 asciilifeform: decimation: the context is typically filled in, in pedantic detail, here.

04:46:24 decimation: you usually do a good job of this

04:47:37 ben_vulpes: oh don't mind me, i'm just grumpy about a frictive process

04:47:37 decimation: I can't think of an off-the-shelf tool that would do everything mentioned above though

04:47:53 asciilifeform: the tool that man can trust to replace his brains is not yet born

04:48:02 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper

04:48:35 decimation: asciilifeform: yes but you could take that argument to 'can't use computer withou seeing registers'

04:48:51 ben_vulpes: decimation: and he does, regularly

04:48:56 decimation: it all depends on what is a reasonable risk to accept

04:49:19 asciilifeform: once hygiene was invented - not using it was no longer 'reasonable'

04:49:21 trinque: git's binary db format is certainly *not* capable of being the canonical representation of the project

04:49:27 trinque: however, these are separate concerns

04:49:44 trinque: the ML is imo for releases, which should consist of bundles of signed patches

04:49:58 decimation: it would be nice to have a button to click: download the 'original tree' plus patches to get to this patch

04:50:10 trinque: dev is its own concern which might have other processes; you could say that a particular feature branch eventually gets flattened down into a release patch

04:50:11 decimation: for each patch

04:50:18 asciilifeform: trinque: i happen to think that throwing patches to ml, where they are all visible in chronological order, is a step forward from them living on my www

04:50:20 trinque: decimation: I was thinking this might be a web app

04:50:21 asciilifeform: and linked here

04:50:47 decimation: trinque: a web page with links to whatever deedbot spits would be sufficient

04:50:49 trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, but the patches are a tree, not a timeline

04:50:55 ben_vulpes: i am now imagining all sorts of dumb things like patches contributed in ml 'threads'

04:50:58 decimation: plus automatics to package tarball and patches

04:51:15 asciilifeform: you lot are reinventing 'version control' gadget

04:51:19 ben_vulpes: heck, it'd be a huge improvement if /patches.html rendered in chronological order

04:51:23 asciilifeform: ^

04:51:24 asciilifeform: agree

04:51:31 asciilifeform: (why aren't they?)

04:51:33 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell jurov pretty please

04:51:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:51:41 ben_vulpes: dunno, have asked twice now

04:51:48 decimation: yes, that's step one of 'we gotta invent version control too'

04:52:01 *: ben_vulpes would learn fossil

04:52:18 ben_vulpes: don't care, can operate anything made by humans

04:52:34 asciilifeform: i said before, will say again: if the labour of crunching the patches looms large, it is only because folks are not undergoing the greater torment of reading them

04:52:54 ben_vulpes: 'tis not the patches but the whole workflow

04:53:05 asciilifeform: what other than the patches ?

04:53:07 ben_vulpes: a forest, not any particular tree

04:53:23 decimation: asciilifeform: for one thing, you would need to see the patch in context

04:53:37 decimation: which you can't get unless you have the whole repo stepped forward to the state of ap articular patch

04:53:37 asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~

04:53:46 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the antecedents thing for one

04:53:56 decimation: thus, you need the whole repo state per patch

04:54:01 decimation: I don't see any way around that

04:54:06 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log)

04:54:09 decimation: yes, this is version control

04:54:10 ben_vulpes: now is when i admit that i've yet to successfully compile bitcoin with rotor

04:54:43 ben_vulpes: tendon-snipped by "use your noggin, eedjit" instructions

04:55:00 ben_vulpes: tripped, fell, yelling in fury

04:55:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: make use of the fact that i am yet alive! post errorz, logs

04:55:13 ben_vulpes: trinque: was there, saw, comiserated

04:55:30 ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out

04:55:31 ben_vulpes: CLEARLY

04:55:32 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm tuned in for what, 12-14 h/day? write in

04:56:50 trinque: rock climbing comes to mind

04:57:04 trinque: sometimes you get a shitty handhold, but you don't immediately shout "fuck this!" and let go of the wall

04:57:13 ben_vulpes: no, for another read through and another hack at "etc. as before" will resolve this.

04:57:34 *: trinque the fatty who hasn't exercised in 6mos... talking about rock climbing...

04:57:35 ben_vulpes: i'll save my "eedjit points" for when i actually cannot resolve things myself.

04:58:15 ben_vulpes: in the meantime, know that these few hours per day *i* do have might be put to better use than derping of dirs.

04:58:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't hesitate to publicly gripe if i omitted a step in cookbook, etc

04:58:48 ben_vulpes: note that i haven't.

04:59:54 decimation: asciilifeform: mapTransactions appears to be a std::map to me

05:00:13 asciilifeform: hm

05:00:20 asciilifeform: decimation is right

05:00:25 decimation: maybe I can't distinguish between boost and stl

05:00:48 decimation: one of the annoyances of c++ is that it is strongly typed and yet devilishly hard to tell *what* type

05:00:50 asciilifeform: does have the behaviour described earlier, though

05:00:55 asciilifeform: aha

05:01:08 decimation: and there is no tool (as far as I know) that automates this task

05:01:21 asciilifeform: not in the land of sunshine & kittenz, at any rate

05:02:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my patches are useless if folks can't build them and test

05:02:21 decimation: folks can, I've done anyway

05:02:31 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223731 << ahahahahahaha

05:02:31 assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 04:03:19; asciilifeform: also ok to use live lusers

05:02:34 decimation: my stator with eatblocks is almost synced after a month of running

05:02:54 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al: if anyone wants to suggest how to make recipe more digestible, please write.

05:04:17 trinque: my only problem with rotor was that berkdb is a piece of shit, ignored env vars that every ball o' source should care about without its own magical flag

05:04:44 trinque: things like that though, that many pieces, sure it's going to snag on machines

05:05:04 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220389 << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell.

05:05:04 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 04:37:34; BingoBoingo: was very slow to eat 51, but it did

05:05:14 trinque: what's needed imo is something which displays the history of *decisions* made, secondarily patches

05:05:27 ben_vulpes: aha trinque's decisionmachine emerges!

05:05:30 trinque: wahaha

05:05:47 trinque: that's what I as a newb trying to wade in wanted to know

05:05:56 trinque: what's the social structure here, what decisions did it fart out?

05:06:01 asciilifeform: what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ?

05:06:02 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts.

05:06:04 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it matters what kind of pointers that mapTransactions is accepting

05:06:12 trinque: asciilifeform: I've read *far* more logs than that

05:06:17 decimation: asciilifeform: one annoyance about the logs: missing entries

05:06:20 asciilifeform: so trinque then knows the decisions

05:06:36 asciilifeform: decimation: this is also why i keep boxes going 24/7, logging

05:07:11 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: still need instructions, for when script explodes with no explanation

05:07:26 asciilifeform: there is, sadly, no possible substitute for actually grasping the mechanism

05:07:37 asciilifeform: if i knew of one - would say what it is, promise.

05:08:12 ben_vulpes: mine explode at the line that fails instead of airily carrying on as though nothing happened.

05:08:15 ben_vulpes: helps, somewhat.

05:08:37 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release

05:08:49 asciilifeform: (i somehow forgot this feature even existed in sh)

05:09:36 decimation: the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects

05:09:37 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr )

05:09:50 decimation: calling clear() simply zeros the hashes but does not deallocate the objects

05:09:55 asciilifeform: aha

05:09:58 asciilifeform: i explained this earlier

05:10:01 decimation: one would need to iterate through all of them and call delete

05:10:08 asciilifeform: except have to iterate cleverly

05:10:16 decimation: yes, it would be annoying

05:10:17 asciilifeform: because deleting destroys iterator

05:10:33 asciilifeform: (forgot this, and relearned the hard way, sat with gdb for a spell)

05:11:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131950 @ 0.00050986 = 67.276 BTC [-] {7}

05:11:45 *: asciilifeform bbl

05:11:48 decimation: I wonder if wrapping in auto_ptr would help

05:11:57 decimation: no, because it still doesn't leave scope

05:17:28 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage?

05:17:52 ben_vulpes: shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases?

05:18:14 ben_vulpes: i have no answers, only this hill to watch.

05:18:21 *: ben_vulpes to have a brow soothed on a sweet busom

05:43:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72253 @ 0.00052755 = 38.1171 BTC [+]

06:00:33 BingoBoingo: <trinque> I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table << What. People don't die of drink anymoar because it feels good man?

06:01:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107475 @ 0.00053128 = 57.0993 BTC [+] {5}

06:02:05 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works << Ugliest artifact. MIN_RELAY_TXFEE and MINTXFEE live in main.h and init.h when patched. very volatile line numbers

06:04:58 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness' << It always has, at least until armor became to weighty for civilized legionaries

06:15:38 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator

06:16:28 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> ... << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell. << I remember more than a minute, but only resorted to spring powered time after already waiting

06:17:51 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ? << New challenges revert "seasoned" into n00b again

06:18:21 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. << And then shell changes

06:19:25 BingoBoingo: <decimation> the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects << Far worse in PoundNation 0.9+ where classes

06:19:27 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr )

06:20:57 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? << Honestly prolly. A recipe that provides ABI compatibility with 2.6.x Linux kernel is prolly fine. People can adapt to other environments.

06:32:27 BingoBoingo: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B << #ba-courts

06:32:28 assbot: dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL )

06:32:28 deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.

06:32:39 BingoBoingo: trinque ^

06:32:49 trinque: nothing's broken; there's other shit on the line

06:33:01 trinque: also html url

06:33:05 BingoBoingo: <BingoBoingo> deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B

06:33:07 assbot: dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL )

06:33:22 BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt

06:33:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX )

06:33:30 BingoBoingo: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt

06:33:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX )

06:33:32 deedbot-: accepted: 1

06:33:38 trinque: heh ding ding

06:33:45 *: BingoBoingo may be rather intoxicated

06:33:57 BingoBoingo: But, #b-a courts

06:35:37 trinque: ;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^

06:35:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:35:40 BingoBoingo: Got to get the condemnation in before feeding the lawyer fiat for next month's hearing

06:35:41 trinque: BingoBoingo: cool

06:38:28 BingoBoingo: Also if anyone with a bunch of power words (danielpbarron) can identify either on any relevant Bitcoin related WoT I would appreciate a heads up.

06:40:49 BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.

06:41:35 BingoBoingo: I might not remember why in the morning I decided tonight would be the night to file this, but I left myself copious notes.

06:42:57 *: BingoBoingo used to believe St Cliar County authorities might read this chan, now pretty sure they don't, but figure there is a lack of better public records so their doom if they don't read.

06:45:47 *: BingoBoingo notes filings issued in venues other than a #b-a deedbot will from now and from twenty years in the past be treated as suggestions rather than orders.

06:49:04 punkman: http://fraudsters.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << the broadcast overflows and gets clipped, have to view source

06:49:05 assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM )

06:52:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.000532 = 16.5984 BTC [+]

06:54:53 BingoBoingo: ;;kittenlasers

06:54:54 gribble: Error: "kittenlasers" is not a valid command.

06:56:54 BingoBoingo: Seems about as true as ever http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2014#726890

06:56:54 assbot: Logged on 21-06-2014 14:11:51; moiety: are you near asciilifeform, punkman? he needs a kitten, he just hasn't fully realised it yet

07:03:10 BingoBoingo: !up knotwork

07:07:22 BingoBoingo: Parody, but should it be? http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/03/ativan-diffuser/

07:07:24 assbot: FDA Finally Approves The Ativan Diffuser for all Hospital Units | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGdtQ )

07:08:31 BingoBoingo: I mean if http://epmonthly.com/article/you-re-suing-me-for-what/ isn't parody

07:08:33 assbot: West Virginia Supreme Court Ruling Allows Physician Liability for Patient Addiction - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGj4B )

07:10:17 punkman: BingoBoingo, seems like a good way to stop docs prescribing

07:10:17 BingoBoingo: !up diametric

07:10:23 BingoBoingo: !up diana_coman

07:10:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142681 @ 0.00053065 = 75.7137 BTC [-] {2}

07:10:51 BingoBoingo: punkman: Well hopefully they stop prescribing for their old coots threatening their licenses first

07:11:11 BingoBoingo: Only industry to win is Afghan

07:16:54 *: BingoBoingo contemplates migrating to a completely suckless/cat-v desktop. Pros? Any cons?

07:21:21 BingoBoingo: Well, maybe not entirely. I may keep cwm over dwm

07:22:57 BingoBoingo: Also, how out of sync is the medical profession with the youth? http://epmonthly.com/article/palca-what/

07:22:59 assbot: The Top Ways Palcohol Abuse Could Present to the Emergency Department - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasJfk )

07:24:12 punkman: didn't USG ban that?

07:24:47 punkman: guess not

07:25:43 BingoBoingo: punkman: They tabled that motion so not banned.

07:26:17 BingoBoingo: Also alcohol bound in carbohydrates? Prolly going to be a fat sack to the shit jsut to get buzzed.

07:26:24 BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve

07:26:31 HeySteve: hi there

07:26:44 punkman: I remember some discussion about how much the thing would weight

07:27:17 BingoBoingo: hi HeySteve

07:27:52 BingoBoingo: punkman: Well consider a pint bottle of cheap vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, roughly the same by mass

07:28:25 BingoBoingo: And now it gets topped off with sugars that will help it clear stage 2 metabolism faster

07:28:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93500 @ 0.000532 = 49.742 BTC [+]

07:29:30 BingoBoingo: Still to get a slight buzz one is talking at least an once or more of raw ETOH plus binders.

07:31:56 punkman: "Mark searched for powdered alcohol and it wasn't available. Over a few years, with the help of scientists around the world, Mark was able to create powdered alcohol.  So he began his quest to create it. After years of research, experimentation and consultation with scientists around the world, he finally came up with powdered alcohol and called it Palcohol."

07:32:06 punkman: of course it's the first best palchohol

07:32:08 BingoBoingo: For a 110 pound teenager to reach the poisoning level and hit the ER it would still take hald a poing of the stuff, plus binders.

07:32:13 punkman: even though patent dates to 1974

07:32:41 BingoBoingo: patents are probably all on the binders, probably all borrowed from Eli Lily

07:32:46 BingoBoingo: Or leased

07:38:43 *: BingoBoingo wonders if Byrne/Swanson et al ever wander here and see the hate I spew for far smaller problems and wonder... What if Bingo isn't just an MP sock puppet that emerges under the influence of coke?

07:39:38 shinohai: You got to stop giving the butters content there BingoBoingo

07:39:43 BingoBoingo: What if there really are a lot of #b-a people and they really are strong with hate

07:40:44 BingoBoingo: shinohai: I might have the rare opportunity to interview for a fiat job. If I get it I want a part of this window to get cheap coins.

07:41:36 shinohai: Ah good luck on the job.

07:42:32 shinohai: I'd like to have easy to buy coins that don't require writing my autobiography to obtain.

07:43:12 *: BingoBoingo would have to relocate bu plans to get the beapest place that only requires two months rent on top of deposit

07:43:58 shinohai: What sort of job is it BingoBoingo, may i ask/

07:44:35 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Customer service at a regional univeristy. Nothing glamorous, but given how long as it has been since I was last fiat employable.

07:45:19 shinohai: Don't feel bad, I haven't worked at a fiat job in 6 years now.

07:46:26 punkman: shinohai: retired?

07:46:50 BingoBoingo: Shhh, i'm using that line.

07:47:04 shinohai: Disability pension from an accident. Doc declared me unfit for duty so I'm not complaining.

07:47:37 shinohai: In the real world I have to use Windows

07:47:55 *: BingoBoingo entered into deedbot that condemnation for more than just "there exists" a misdemeanor charge

07:50:05 shinohai: I need a good virtual job, that reddit shit that pays $5 in btc is pointless.

07:51:46 BingoBoingo: I just hope one day to become.

07:53:01 BingoBoingo: I've already had the FBI at my front door. I'd just like to become the sort of #b-a dragon who can embrace axe time

07:53:54 shinohai: You had the FBI? You got more rep than me. I only had FCC come to make me take down my super yagi.

07:54:54 shinohai: When you are unemployed and bored, naturally you want a wifi antenna capable of covering the whole neighborhood with internet.

07:55:34 BingoBoingo: Well it was one FBI agent and one Treasury agent. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/ I still have the Treasury agent's card. FBI fucker never offered his.

07:55:36 assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2loNL )

07:56:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110000 @ 0.00052667 = 57.9337 BTC [-] {4}

07:58:26 BingoBoingo: It was hot, I didn't let them in so we had a pow wow on the front lawn until they quit.

07:59:52 shinohai: > "the FBI agent name dropped Coindesk as a thing he reads...."

08:00:02 shinohai: AT leas he admits he has a problem.

08:00:09 BingoBoingo: But this is exactly how to handle an encounter of the Federal kind. You sweat them away and you disclose it happened.

08:00:34 BingoBoingo: To be fair qntra didn't quite exist yet.

08:01:12 BingoBoingo: http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Jen-Selter-Instagram-5.jpg

08:01:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2mau4 )

08:01:30 BingoBoingo: Rome didn't burn in a day

08:03:56 shinohai: Musta been a slow crime month, they were looking to invent something.

08:04:43 BingoBoingo: The exact service they asked me about was the late BTCPak operated by DBordello. All I knew was I used it and it worked.

08:05:22 shinohai: I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader

08:07:15 shinohai: I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc.

08:08:29 punkman: girl's sister was at her parent's house for a night. parents were on vacation, so neighbor hears noise and calls the cops. cops show up banging on the door at 3am, she opens door and there were 3-4 submachineguns pointed at her.

08:08:50 punkman: I'd sue them

08:09:50 shinohai: Unfortunately, policing doesn't seem to be a service you can unsubscribe from.

08:10:07 shinohai: You just get hit with "early termination" fees. ;)

08:12:18 BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader << iirc he made it rahter clear he was shady. BTcPak had a .com site and everything I needed to believe in it at the time.

08:13:12 BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. << I'd already met alf here. For all they know everything has the thermite.

08:13:23 shinohai: Yeah it appears he got sloppy or just didn't care. I bought btc from him several times despite the war between him and TradeFortress.

08:13:56 BingoBoingo: TradeFortress appears in retrospect to have jsut been another parasitic chicom

08:14:04 shinohai: ^

08:15:06 BingoBoingo: But MPT made it way to clear in his adverts that he did "dark web stuff" to address him as a person. That would be like buying a gram of blow from the white boy dressed as a pimp.

08:15:07 shinohai: I never used inputs.io though. The whole thing of not owning your keys seemed silly to me.

08:15:49 BingoBoingo: I spent time on his coinshat thing tying to tell n00bs to not be such n00bs. Fat lot of good it did.

08:16:25 shinohai: A fool and his money .....

08:17:50 BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.

08:20:49 shinohai: He definitely had a way with people. There are peeps to this day that still defend him and inputs.

08:20:54 BingoBoingo: People really underestimate how long I can keep my hate fresh

08:21:23 shinohai: Same. I hold grudges for way too long.

08:21:35 BingoBoingo: I was trying to save precious n00bs on his site, and he fuck it. So I hate.

08:22:29 shinohai: n00bs generally go for the shiny and loud

08:23:00 shinohai: Things that require little effort, not realizing your security comes at a price.

08:23:29 shinohai: But no: "The app developer *assures us it is safe, so it must be*"

08:23:40 BingoBoingo: It was an inflection point. I mean back then Eulora was jsut a jizzlet in MP's balls

08:23:45 BingoBoingo: !up afreakk

08:23:57 BingoBoingo: 1up afreakk_Z_Z_

08:24:19 BingoBoingo: !up afreakk_Z_Z_

08:26:24 shinohai: I had such enthusiasm for Eulora, I may take a fresh look at it when I have good drugs.

08:26:37 BingoBoingo: It was around then though that I realized that no amount of 1 on 1 coaching directed at unknowns could have the same impact MP had when he declared Max Keiser was a doody head.

08:27:03 BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.

08:27:23 BingoBoingo: But first I gotta chop on my bitcoin first

08:27:33 BingoBoingo: And fuck it

08:27:36 BingoBoingo: Bed time

08:27:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 426459 @ 0.00053309 = 227.341 BTC [+] {8}

08:29:16 shinohai: gn m8

08:38:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9585 @ 0.0005338 = 5.1165 BTC [+] {2}

09:00:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67950 @ 0.00052422 = 35.6207 BTC [-] {2}

09:25:39 punkman: youtube apparently doesn't like songs titled "Cunt Make It Up"

09:27:20 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-gvxxhcS8s

09:27:21 assbot: Tarantula Deadly Cargo - Sleaford Mods - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OPK2ju )

09:33:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93750 @ 0.00052422 = 49.1456 BTC [-]

09:40:10 punkman: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret lol secret

09:40:11 assbot: Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1W17506 )

09:45:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130050 @ 0.0005355 = 69.6418 BTC [+] {6}

10:28:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122250 @ 0.00053699 = 65.647 BTC [+] {4}

10:45:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88700 @ 0.0005288 = 46.9046 BTC [-]

10:48:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @ 0.00053995 = 4.7991 BTC [+]

10:59:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80400 @ 0.00053211 = 42.7816 BTC [-] {4}

11:16:22 punkman: http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/04/news/companies/greek-bank-shares-crash/ heh

11:16:23 assbot: Uber is worth five times Greece's banks - Aug. 4, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ825s )

11:35:17 jurov: http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1262 kek

11:35:19 assbot: Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ9R24 )

11:47:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00051947 = 20.0515 BTC [-] {2}

11:49:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @ 0.00051943 = 56.7218 BTC [-] {3}

11:51:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 336600 @ 0.00054208 = 182.4641 BTC [+] {5}

11:58:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96550 @ 0.00054789 = 52.8988 BTC [+] {8}

12:14:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120750 @ 0.00055026 = 66.4439 BTC [+]

12:15:27 mircea_popescu: !up v_smith

12:15:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shouldn't, in browser that respect "font size=small".

12:15:52 mircea_popescu: doesn't, in mine, in any case.

12:21:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00055026 = 12.1057 BTC [+]

12:33:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225116 << i can see this as pretty legitimate.

12:33:23 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:10:05; BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?

12:34:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225121 << in fact few are going to actually test anything even when it is easy to do so.

12:34:25 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:12:14; ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.

12:34:39 mircea_popescu: in short we gotta restructure this pancake castle less it falls over.

12:35:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use.

12:35:39 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:15; ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments

12:37:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225134 < this is uniquely impractical because a) an actually stared definition of laziness that fails to include most everyone otherwise occupied has yet to be seen and b) you'd better not dare create a system that insults the powerful.

12:37:22 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:49; trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"

12:37:35 mircea_popescu: shit on the powerless, that's what they're there fo.

12:38:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225149 << iirc that was gitHUB

12:38:42 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:01; ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"

12:41:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << this proposition is false. similarly, going to the market has "all downside and no upside" for goers : they know for a fact they'll spend money. and who knows if the stuff they get will be any good, won't spoil en route, won't get stolen before they get home or for that matter won't sprout heads and tentacles and eat them. so let's "safely" aka stupidly round th

12:41:21 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside

12:41:21 mircea_popescu: e first to 1 and the 2nd to 0, and then go 1 = 0 har har.

12:41:58 mircea_popescu: not how it works. it has A LOT of upside and virtually no downside. what ELSE are you going to do with that "money" if you don't go to the market ? and what ELSE are you going to do with that certain time and alleged expertise if not sign this stuff ?

12:42:50 mircea_popescu: there is NOTHING else. anything where you spend your time for any other purpose is either a) masturbation, ie, the xtian "building castles on sand". whether you spend time with your kid or groom your beard or fuck the woman, it's all sensata. or else b) uranium mines.

12:43:24 mircea_popescu: the only kingdom of heaven accessible to earthlinks is fucking reading and signing patches. don't want it, fine, but don't get fucking existential on me on your deathbed about how you wasted your life. yes, you have. shoulda not have.

12:53:19 shinohai: ;;ticker

12:53:20 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 282.95, Best ask: 282.98, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 282.95, 24 hour volume: 8721.96406275, 24 hour low: 281.49, 24 hour high: 285.94, 24 hour vwap: None

12:54:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93999 @ 0.00051937 = 48.8203 BTC [-] {2}

13:12:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @ 0.00051937 = 38.1218 BTC [-]

13:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69100 @ 0.00052279 = 36.1248 BTC [+] {3}

13:33:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43811 @ 0.00051885 = 22.7313 BTC [-] {5}

13:36:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225197 << honestly thinking about it i dun see any way to avoid involving deeds in here.

13:36:01 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:43:53; asciilifeform: need hard ~dates~ as well as identity.

13:36:22 mircea_popescu: i suspect we might be belabouring under the burdens imposed by a design problem which ultimately stems from conceptual confusion.

13:37:54 mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.

13:38:02 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".

13:38:29 mircea_popescu: the other is MANAGE. specifically - hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question.

13:39:41 mircea_popescu: i am perfectly aware that a fine answer to both these is "just grow a beard", which is to say, "know", knight style, just "what is going on" so that you can reboot the machine into a working state. and "know", mp style, just whop the moles are.

13:40:23 mircea_popescu: this is not practicable, if for no other reason then because the very earth will end up growing a beard and that'll be bad for the climate.

13:43:37 mircea_popescu: but in point of fact, approaching the matter conversely, a straight github repository would be just fine from the M perspective if it were doubled by duly deedbotted hashes of the plaintext. and on the other hand, irrespectively how inscrutable -r content would be just fine from a U perspective, just as long as someone can somehow convert it into a plaintext they can sit down with, follow, and never be surprised.

13:45:20 mircea_popescu: and returning to the issue, the good quality recipes are exactly equivalent to the "wot of patches" management technique : they allow people to ride on the shoulders of giants ~of their own choice~.

13:46:03 mircea_popescu: this "choose your own giant" system is definitely powerful enough to take over the world, but we still gotta figure out a way to allow such seating.

13:46:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00052304 = 18.0972 BTC [+]

13:46:35 mircea_popescu: and both sides gotta be done at the same time.

13:47:01 mircea_popescu: this is ultimately why foss failed. yes, it did (sort of, but originally much better than currently) allow the U seating part.

13:47:41 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, because it failed to even conceptualize the M part, let alone address it, it remained open to attack which the us first probed (with its corporate tentacles, ms etc) and then crushed, with its agency teeth.

13:47:55 mircea_popescu: the reason this was possible is fortunately very easy to fix, once we understood what the hole was.

13:48:29 mircea_popescu: but in any case, a purely M wot will eventually fail, no matter how effectual or powerful it is (and it is, ftr, factually) on the financial side

13:48:41 mircea_popescu: which is why they're probing the U side atm.

13:52:41 asciilifeform: wai wat

13:52:50 mircea_popescu: from which leaf ?

13:52:54 asciilifeform: last

13:53:15 mircea_popescu: what do you think all this "software for the people" kick is ?

13:53:22 mircea_popescu: actual, bona fide love of the multitudes ?

13:53:28 asciilifeform: ah, that

13:53:42 mircea_popescu: stalin despised the peasant, and the usg despises the scum we despise, equally if not moreso.

13:54:37 mircea_popescu: but just as the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee of future success. that we readily crushed the "omai, bigger blocks" initiative, like all "initiatives" to date does not offer any guarantee we'll manage next time.

13:54:55 mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.

13:55:39 asciilifeform: what can i say, go get more of me somewhere

13:55:53 mircea_popescu: mno. this is a tooling problem.

13:56:13 mircea_popescu: when you have a phd assembly line, the problem is not "insufficient phds"

13:56:31 asciilifeform: i just don't see it, really

13:56:35 mircea_popescu: which part ?

13:56:46 asciilifeform: plenty of folks who aren't the least 'phd' have built, and are running, the thing

13:57:04 asciilifeform: with griping, sweating, q&a, yes - but running.

13:57:17 mircea_popescu: how is this an argument and what does it argue for ?

13:57:41 asciilifeform: that the existing process is precisely correct

13:57:49 mircea_popescu: correctness is not in dispute.

13:57:57 mircea_popescu: correct it clearly is.

13:58:04 mircea_popescu: it's not effectual and won't scale is the dispute.

13:58:19 asciilifeform: what precisely means 'scale' ?

13:58:24 asciilifeform: in this context

13:58:39 mircea_popescu: hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces <

13:58:47 asciilifeform: iirc she did

13:58:47 mircea_popescu: and hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question., inseparable.

13:58:59 mircea_popescu: she eventually got a stator up ?

13:59:21 mircea_popescu: where do i ping it

13:59:31 *: asciilifeform searches log

13:59:45 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell hanbot so is the node up ? where ? is there a recipe-from-own-eyes somewhere ? where ?

13:59:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:59:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-07-2015#1219909 << apparently not

13:59:46 assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build.

14:00:04 mircea_popescu: "still working" is not "she did"

14:00:24 mircea_popescu: in fact, "still working" a week later is its own precious sort of failure, srsly.

14:00:29 mircea_popescu: there's no reason for this to take a week to do.

14:00:33 asciilifeform: i did offer to help. what do i have to do, get on a plane with chalkboard in bag ?

14:00:37 mircea_popescu: no.

14:00:46 mircea_popescu: why do you think it's about you anyway ?

14:01:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes sorta implied this

14:01:06 mircea_popescu: what does he know.

14:01:10 asciilifeform: but would like to think that it isn't, aha

14:01:34 mircea_popescu: anyway. the idea here is specifically that we want you to be in a position where the plane and chalkboard perspective doesn't loom.

14:01:38 asciilifeform: aha

14:01:43 *: asciilifeform would like this very much

14:01:48 mircea_popescu: right.

14:02:01 chetty: go to meeting?

14:02:06 asciilifeform: l0l

14:02:30 asciilifeform: (in unrelated newz, dulap is getting blackholed again)

14:02:32 mircea_popescu: so basically, help me out here. this should be a website which maintains a code tree and a signature tree ?

14:02:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes has one

14:03:08 mircea_popescu: can we just design the thing, if for no other reason then for the exercise, and then see what already exists and if we like it ?

14:03:44 asciilifeform: i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that anything that can't come out of a printer and then ocr'd back in could be the canonical representation of the path from pedigreed 0.5.3 to us

14:04:14 mircea_popescu: ok, gefuxexperiment. suppose you get hit in the head, and go into a coma.

14:04:24 mircea_popescu: suppose you come back in 2025. suppose we've been living and thriving though this time.

14:04:35 mircea_popescu: you go to the ML, and lo, there's 1`677`321 messages in there.

14:04:38 mircea_popescu: how do you proceed ?

14:04:59 asciilifeform: i'd read them.

14:05:10 mircea_popescu: suppose you can't read at the pace new ones get added.

14:05:12 asciilifeform: sorta doing this with the linux kernel, actually

14:05:18 mircea_popescu: there's 75`000 contributors in 2025 alone.

14:05:22 asciilifeform: aaaaand this is when i decide that the thing has brain cancer.

14:05:25 asciilifeform: like linux !

14:05:25 mircea_popescu: why ?

14:05:30 asciilifeform: it is ~The~ test.

14:05:39 asciilifeform: software is not that intrinsically complicated.

14:05:43 mircea_popescu: looky here : i am a magical witch doctor that can spot where cancer starts.

14:05:47 mircea_popescu: care to hear where it started ?

14:05:52 asciilifeform: nothing needs 1`677`321 changes to go to zero kelvin !!

14:05:59 asciilifeform: aha?

14:06:05 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that <

14:06:59 asciilifeform: and i say that no work of man needs 1`677`321 changes.

14:07:09 asciilifeform: or 677`321 for that matter.

14:07:09 mircea_popescu: depends how it's designed.

14:07:28 asciilifeform: in fact 7`321 is pushing it

14:07:34 mircea_popescu: reproduction is the work of man, and reproduction has TO DATE taken over 2 million strokes. today.

14:07:36 mircea_popescu: will take more.

14:07:45 asciilifeform: nah it's the work of 'aunt dumb'

14:07:46 mircea_popescu: if you design your thing like reproduction works, do not be surprised.

14:08:00 mircea_popescu: narciflattering but untrue.

14:08:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to it : in ordere to ever reach 0 kelvin, you must use at least some elements that provably reduce temperature.

14:10:00 asciilifeform: this'd be the snip-snips.

14:10:17 mircea_popescu: ideally.

14:10:26 mircea_popescu: they need to be supported, is what im telling you.

14:10:47 mircea_popescu: atm we're veering dangerously close to the old -dev process, where they just shat magic stones.

14:11:00 asciilifeform: so let's have idea ?

14:11:06 mircea_popescu: let's have idea!

14:11:18 asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu presently have ?

14:11:19 mircea_popescu: how would this b-a versioning system work ?

14:11:22 mircea_popescu: i do not, no.

14:11:42 mircea_popescu: i don't even fully understand wtf hole we're filing. tho i think i understand a lot better right now than 3 hours ago.

14:12:00 asciilifeform: i will add that a while ago i pictured myself in the predicament of folks trying to assemble the thing. which is why i included an unofficial flattened source with 'stator'

14:12:14 mircea_popescu: aha.

14:12:30 mircea_popescu: no, if you look at the history with open eyes it's quite clear we had this problem on back for a while now.

14:13:01 mircea_popescu: i swear this is a problem that's structural and should be solved, rather than just pushed against.

14:13:48 jurov: structural? ohmy mircea's going to ban something :D

14:14:00 mircea_popescu: lolwut

14:14:06 asciilifeform: it is a problem. but i must point out that most of the troubles folks have spoken of so far do not stem from it. e.g., trinque et al with their misbehaving systems.

14:14:15 jurov: but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it

14:14:34 punkman: context?

14:14:39 asciilifeform: jurov: link?

14:14:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i bet you dollars to anything that the reason you don't get deluged in that is simply that moist folks are too interdicted by the task to even attempt, soi we don't hear about 99% of compat issues

14:14:50 mircea_popescu: jurov so you have.

14:14:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: entirely possible

14:15:26 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000100.html << example of one of my patches listing antecedents

14:15:27 assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke! ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYWpv )

14:15:33 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178271

14:15:33 assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 21:23:15; jurov: ok ascii_field not turd , but this leaves things to be desired, too: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html

14:15:37 mircea_popescu: and the last we heard of davout he was told exactly the same, and for all i know he's fallen in there never to be heard from again

14:16:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1221213 << seems like he is there

14:16:42 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 18:51:53; davout: second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-)

14:17:49 mircea_popescu: lemme state apropos of nothing that if you blame people for process not only are you an incredibly bad manager, but your organisation will fail, and in so doing give everyone a sigh of relief.

14:19:23 asciilifeform: won't blame people, but will say that the state of the ecosystem (i.e. what folks are building on) is in such a sad state that the only plausible solution is os standardization

14:19:36 mircea_popescu: question : what if we ran this to look more like a wiki than a mailing list ?

14:19:38 asciilifeform: something i've been loathe to suggest because guess to whom the chore will fall

14:19:45 mircea_popescu: ie, all things we do have a "current page"

14:19:49 mircea_popescu: which lists everything

14:19:51 asciilifeform: that'd be very spiffy

14:19:55 mircea_popescu: changes, in the history tree - all signed.

14:20:02 asciilifeform: esp. if it can be limited to the wot set

14:20:07 mircea_popescu: can't see why not.

14:20:23 mircea_popescu: and that page can get sub-pages

14:20:31 asciilifeform: well, one reason why possibly not is that i suspect that the ml is as quiet as it is because signing things is arduous

14:20:31 mircea_popescu: for testing, for corner cases, for whatever the shit.

14:21:08 *: punkman just realizes he forgot to post working debug_sanity revision

14:21:54 mircea_popescu: jurov what do you think about switching to mediawiki ?

14:22:05 punkman: poor jurov :/

14:22:11 mircea_popescu: not the doing. the notion.

14:22:18 asciilifeform: wiki is a neat idea, but someone will have to invent signed-edits-wiki

14:22:29 mircea_popescu: last i heard it was os php

14:22:36 punkman: dokuwiki is a better candidate

14:22:41 mircea_popescu: is it ?

14:22:44 punkman: much smaller

14:22:46 *: mircea_popescu knows nothing about these.

14:23:08 punkman: kako uses it on bitcoin-assets wiki as well

14:23:15 mircea_popescu: aha

14:24:16 jurov: i use dokuwiki for some stuff, too. and it can be authed only once per seesion like assbot

14:24:29 asciilifeform: auth is easy, but how about verify ?

14:24:38 mircea_popescu: in practice, it'd prolly be more practical to transition deedbot and its site to this job i think

14:24:40 mircea_popescu: than the ml

14:24:41 asciilifeform: as in, can i download whole thing and attribute every delta to a wot person ?

14:25:08 jurov: i see it as minor change. majur obstacle is how to sanely track stuff who released, who signed

14:25:17 jurov: mere switch to wiki won't solve it

14:25:29 mircea_popescu: jurov what if the only way to add an edit is "deedbot pastebin/soandso" ?

14:25:37 punkman: with some metadata in diff files, we could have a script that creates a branched git repo entirely out of signed patch files

14:25:42 mircea_popescu: ^

14:25:56 mircea_popescu: this is where im headed. have the syntax as a burden ON THE WRITER

14:26:03 mircea_popescu: not on the fucken reader. prolly 2/3 of our problem as is

14:26:15 mircea_popescu: so : you wanna contribute, use this and that markup, then rest is done by itself.

14:26:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers

14:26:49 mircea_popescu: (reason is that stuff's written once, read many times)

14:28:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl http://fraudsters.com/autobitcoin.sh | gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them

14:28:10 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DtYhd5 )

14:28:31 mircea_popescu: and the only time i hear of any peep from the entire shebang is when one of them has gone over and i need to come in here and start with the !rate -10

14:30:12 mircea_popescu: and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work.

14:30:22 asciilifeform: the only way to guarantee that the selected set of authors adds up to a single nonconflicting merge is to only build official releases (that is, tree signed by mod6 & ben_vulpes)

14:30:34 mircea_popescu: sure.

14:30:42 asciilifeform: again with the meat models. in point of fact most viruses ~don't work~

14:30:48 mircea_popescu: gimme the mechanics, lemme worry about the people.

14:30:54 mircea_popescu: of course in point of fact most viruses don't work.

14:31:02 mircea_popescu: yet most people to date have been killed by viruses.

14:31:05 mircea_popescu: gimme the mechanics!

14:32:12 asciilifeform: as i understand, any mechanized thing really depends on patches stating their antecedents

14:32:39 jurov: is adding "applies-to" a problem?

14:33:08 asciilifeform: thinking of a modified unix-patch util that stuffs sha512 into comment preceding each file diff

14:33:30 asciilifeform: from patches like these, one could conceivably auto-build a dependency graph

14:33:35 mircea_popescu: jurov i dun see why it would be

14:34:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually a hashed diff / patch-util is a must irrerspective of anything else.

14:34:47 asciilifeform: i'm about to post an example

14:34:51 mircea_popescu: i have nfi how come it doesn't exist. must be a switch

14:35:00 jurov: i get it

14:36:48 jurov: though, with this in-band signalling we will limit ourselves to patch format

14:37:19 mircea_popescu: as opposed to what ?

14:37:21 jurov: there may be ned to publish other signed artifacts

14:37:26 *: mircea_popescu likes, perhaps irrationally, the patch format

14:37:37 jurov: like chicken.tar.gz was

14:37:48 mircea_popescu: i didn't care for that.

14:37:50 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original

14:37:51 assbot: dpaste: 0MWBGJ1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpniDc )

14:37:56 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented

14:37:58 assbot: dpaste: 04XFDSF ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ipnja8 )

14:38:06 mircea_popescu: in fact, if you ask diana_coman, she recently delivered a bot for eulora client, and i had her make me diffs.

14:38:13 asciilifeform: jurov: 'chicken' was a dire, necessary evil

14:38:20 mircea_popescu: i dunno how you folks understand code otherwise, might be that i'm rusty or inept, but anyway.

14:38:23 asciilifeform: because the alternative was a multi-megabyte pile of minus signs

14:38:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even sure the pile was worse.

14:38:56 jurov: diana_coman: you actually tried to apply the diffs?

14:38:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12165 @ 0.00052304 = 6.3628 BTC [+]

14:39:03 mircea_popescu: ~I~ applied the diffs.

14:39:07 mircea_popescu: with her there holding my hand

14:39:09 mircea_popescu: took an hour.

14:39:28 mircea_popescu: and yes, i applied, by hand, compiled, etc.

14:40:08 jurov: yes. far cry from just running some .sh

14:40:21 diana_coman: yes jurov, I did verify it, applied it etc

14:40:27 mircea_popescu: jurov sure.

14:40:34 asciilifeform: see the dpastes

14:40:46 asciilifeform: imho this would correct a fundamental flaw in the whole diff thing

14:40:52 diana_coman: it took me half an hour only, but yeah, I did not have to re-read the code or anything

14:41:01 asciilifeform: in that, having a bag of patches in hand, you could magically coalesce them into a dependency graph

14:41:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do they handle the "armored"/asciifucks issue ?

14:41:28 jurov: by running gpg --decrypt on clearsigned text

14:41:31 asciilifeform: afaik this was never an issue with patches (they were attached as binaries)

14:41:33 jurov: no other way

14:41:35 asciilifeform: and detach-signed

14:41:41 asciilifeform: same as a tarball would be

14:41:58 asciilifeform: it was an issue with message text on ml

14:42:11 asciilifeform: hence the 'never, ever include a patch in message text' thing.

14:42:19 mircea_popescu: kk

14:43:11 jurov: i like it. to be able to remove files without dumping whole contents, patch should be patched, too

14:43:20 asciilifeform: i will add, if it isn't obvious, that patches like the one i suggested will apply on a standard unix patch util

14:43:20 mircea_popescu: ^

14:43:51 asciilifeform: jurov: it was not a thing before, because there was no way to guarantee that the contents are what the patch author thought they were

14:43:54 asciilifeform: but now - can.

14:44:04 asciilifeform: and thereby can safely snip a file after stating its checksum

14:44:20 asciilifeform: but now both sides of the patch (author and applier) will need the custom util.

14:44:26 mircea_popescu: this all makes me feel a lot better about my life expectancy.

14:44:58 asciilifeform: now, the above is not a magic pill! somebody will still need to write the graph traverser

14:45:06 mircea_popescu: yes.

14:45:13 asciilifeform: but it is a necessary start.

14:45:15 mircea_popescu: and the documentation.

14:45:16 mircea_popescu: yes.

14:45:46 mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.

14:46:06 asciilifeform: curious what ben_vulpes, for instance, might add

14:46:39 asciilifeform: incidentally it is not necessary to alter the unix patch util. the checksums can be added by a proggy which eats standard patch file and the 'before' tree, and shits - this

14:46:54 asciilifeform: prolly 3 lines of perl

14:47:17 shinohai: My node isn't connected to anyone again today *sigh*

14:47:22 mircea_popescu: !rate diana_coman 4 Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.

14:47:22 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1c7400936902f591

14:47:25 asciilifeform: shinohai: blackholed ?

14:47:35 asciilifeform: i.e.,

14:47:43 asciilifeform: accepted connection 104.236.95.174:49539

14:47:43 asciilifeform: accepted connection 178.18.90.41:42497

14:47:43 asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0

14:47:43 asciilifeform: disconnecting node 62.210.127.113:34814

14:47:53 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.diana_coman.4:f03c096e55ea00704ee7e685df39127f5c24a5bfc36808528b00217764e046d2

14:47:54 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 4 with note: Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.

14:48:28 asciilifeform: shinohai: this is a persistent problem, and i have every reason to expect that it will get worse.

14:48:35 shinohai: T_T

14:48:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph

14:49:16 shinohai: Also getting 11db cannot allocate memory errors

14:49:16 mircea_popescu: shinohai please run this : cat debug.log | grep -c "no message in first 60" and report result

14:49:38 *: asciilifeform marvelling that no one, apparently, ever noticed the glaring omission in 'patch'

14:49:39 shinohai: kk 1 sec

14:50:47 shinohai: returns 0 xD

14:50:57 mircea_popescu: then it's not that. prolly gotta pursue the memory issue.

14:52:21 shinohai: Watching tail though I see exactly what asciilifeform describes

14:53:44 mircea_popescu: ... what gives ?

14:54:50 shinohai: Where it attempts to connect but disconnects (no message in first 60 sec)

14:55:06 mircea_popescu: then why is grep returning 0. one or the other neh ?

14:56:49 shinohai: Could be I just started this one, the one I am already running returns 28670932

14:57:05 mircea_popescu: o.O

14:57:10 mircea_popescu: advertised ip ?

14:57:37 shinohai: The one I just started has advertised ip

14:57:44 mircea_popescu: but the other one no ?

14:57:52 mircea_popescu: well... the network is pretty noisy.

14:57:52 shinohai: nope

14:59:11 shinohai: I can see 8333 from ny1.hashbang.sh tho

15:00:29 *: asciilifeform bbl

15:01:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70143 @ 0.00054298 = 38.0862 BTC [+] {4}

15:01:47 trinque: mircea_popescu | asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph << I'm in; seems like yet another static site generator job

15:02:20 mircea_popescu: mostly, yes.

15:02:33 trinque: and I can modify deedbot- however it helps; he already statically generates his site, perhaps he could interpret metadata in certain deeds and take action

15:03:16 mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.

15:03:34 mircea_popescu: this readily enforces the two restraings we want enforced, which is : a) wot restricted and b) signed permanently.

15:03:40 shinohai: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: this is what I get http://dpaste.com/1889469

15:03:41 assbot: dpaste: 1889469 ... ( http://bit.ly/1gKcYyN )

15:04:06 mircea_popescu: shinohai this is "normal"

15:04:12 mircea_popescu: in the sense of retarded but commonly seen

15:04:27 jurov: mircea_popescu: deedbot has currently even less friendly archives than mailman

15:04:31 shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't

15:04:40 mircea_popescu: hm.

15:05:03 mircea_popescu: jurov i wasn't proposing they be used as is.

15:06:15 jurov: email was chosed because it allows for structured text + attachments. not sure how to do it with deedbot

15:06:16 trinque: to date I've tried to keep it simple, hence the deeds are plain textfiles linked to by a single index

15:06:27 trinque: no reason I can't add some html nav around that a la dpaste

15:06:54 mircea_popescu: bears more thinking

15:07:51 jurov: yes the signed email + extra signed attachs is a kludge

15:10:00 jurov: there must be better system to put together few files + text that already has crypto or can be extended easily

15:11:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49485 @ 0.00053671 = 26.5591 BTC [-]

15:12:09 trinque: the way git handles this is that "everything's a Blob" then "some Blobs are a Tree which points to n Blobs which may be Trees or Blobs"

15:12:43 trinque: you could implement the data structures needed for VCS atop deedbot in a similar manner

15:13:01 trinque: one thing that would be needed on my end is a saner URL for a given deed; it needs to just be the hash

15:13:08 trinque: easily done

15:13:56 jurov: how would it look for user? got a .txt, a .patch , now what?

15:16:00 trinque: so, git does it this way: there are Blobs, which are a k/v pair of which the k is the hash of the v; blobs can be one of: Reference, Commit, Tree, Blob

15:16:09 jurov: (currently on has to clearsign the .txt, make detached armored sig for .patch and use non-braindamaged email client to put them together)

15:16:34 jurov: i am not a git

15:16:37 jurov: :D

15:16:38 trinque: I probably missed one, and they also divide into further classifications, ref for example can be a tag, branch, stash

15:16:54 trinque: hehe

15:17:12 mircea_popescu: jurov word. there must be.

15:18:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125000 @ 0.00053491 = 66.8638 BTC [-] {3}

15:18:40 trinque: so if you say did the structured data in the "blobs" as sexps you could sign that text easily

15:19:40 trinque: and then maybe deedbot farts out additional nav controls on the html versions of these interesting deeds with a particular sexp in them

15:19:50 trinque: anyhow one thought.

15:20:31 punkman: drowning in rube goldberg?

15:23:22 trinque: implementing a VCS isn't rocket science; it's just a matter of getting the abstractions right

15:24:59 punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.

15:26:09 trinque: sure, and that's another thought

15:26:36 trinque: wrap git or mercurial or something in hooks which enforce the constraints desired

15:27:45 trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons

15:29:18 *: Adlai mumbles something about darcs

15:29:46 trinque: Adlai: it does that?

15:29:50 trinque: I mean they all can, but well?

15:30:38 Adlai: ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc

15:32:21 trinque: sounds worth investigating

15:33:26 *: trinque wanders off for coffee

15:42:41 punkman: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-05/china-to-set-up-security-offices-inside-internet-companies

15:42:42 assbot: China to Set Up ‘Security Offices’ Inside Internet Companies - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpuQpx )

15:53:34 punkman: I imagine they already have people in those companies, why make it official?

16:13:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47950 @ 0.00054691 = 26.2243 BTC [+]

16:24:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00054189 = 23.518 BTC [-]

16:29:16 ben_vulpes: <Adlai> ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc << how so? i've never touched darcs, the question comes from ignorance.

16:29:47 Adlai: git signs blobs, darcs signs patches

16:30:00 ben_vulpes: git produces patches tho--

16:30:00 ben_vulpes: oh

16:30:15 ben_vulpes: interdasting

16:30:30 *: ben_vulpes is not terrifically familiar with the git gpg integration

16:30:57 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225499 << i know, apologies all around

16:30:57 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 12:35:39; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use.

16:32:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00052804 = 57.926 BTC [-] {5}

16:38:16 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: my coracle's been wedged at 367850 since last night, even with the new db locks config. last 500 lines of debug.log: http://dpaste.com/1XB21DH.txt , please let me know if more would be useful

16:38:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuoN65 )

17:14:35 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

17:14:50 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225805 << this is what i refer to as 'blackholed'

17:14:50 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:04:31; shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't

17:15:51 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!!

17:15:51 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:03:16; mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.

17:16:12 ascii_field: if someone was wondering how the system could ever be made ~less~ n00b-friendly - this'd be it..

17:17:17 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225833 << can do this now!

17:17:17 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:24:59; punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.

17:17:21 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski You should see it when the DDoS abates

17:17:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:17:39 punkman: ascii_field, I'm doing it

17:18:45 punkman: but I'm guessing as to patch order, branches, etc

17:25:16 ben_vulpes: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-03/for-his-next-trick-barefoot-genius-aims-to-end-broker-rip-offs

17:25:19 assbot: For His Next Trick, Barefoot Genius Aims to End Broker Rip-Offs - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQRv1Q )

17:27:57 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: the debug.log fragment you pasted does not reveal the cause of your jam

17:28:23 ben_vulpes: i was hoping you'd contradict my own conclusions, but alas.

17:28:49 danielpbarron: 500 lines isn't enough

17:30:21 ben_vulpes: let me restart the thing and grab the whole bootup log for inspection

17:32:26 BingoBoingo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol

17:32:27 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit"--new research paper suggests ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQSsXP )

17:33:25 danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, I don't recognize those names you mentioned earlier

17:33:43 BingoBoingo: It's for the best

17:34:09 BingoBoingo: non-people

17:34:17 ascii_field: philippinos, snore.

17:36:18 punkman: a question that future patch submitters might have: should I patch against last release or most active branch?

17:37:48 ascii_field: punkman: depends on who you think is 'longest chain'

17:38:07 ascii_field: if wrong about this, will have to merge by hand, and there is no going around this

17:38:37 jurov: if a big problem, you can always rebase and rerelease

17:39:35 ben_vulpes: what was the rollover patch called?

17:41:39 punkman: rollover?

17:42:34 punkman: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000144.html this won't truncate your debug.log unless you tell it to

17:42:34 assbot: [BTC-dev] fixed debug_sanity ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQU7N8 )

17:45:31 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform http://cascadianhacker.com/wedged.log

17:45:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQUQ0S )

17:46:14 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:46:21 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: .txt plz

17:46:31 ascii_field: (or www browser barfs)

17:49:33 ben_vulpes: haw

17:50:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94900 @ 0.00054409 = 51.6341 BTC [+] {3}

17:50:15 ben_vulpes: Bitcoin version 0.5.4-beta

17:50:15 ben_vulpes: Default data directory /home/ec2-user/.bitcoin

17:50:15 ben_vulpes: Loading addresses...

17:50:15 ben_vulpes: dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/db.log

17:50:18 ben_vulpes: Loaded 39823 addresses

17:50:21 ben_vulpes: addresses 26456ms

17:50:24 ben_vulpes: Loading block index...

17:50:27 ben_vulpes: LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000000000dfc height=367850

17:50:30 ben_vulpes: block index 63562ms

17:50:33 ben_vulpes: Loading wallet...

17:50:36 ben_vulpes: nFileVersion = 50400

17:50:39 ben_vulpes: fGenerateBitcoins = 0

17:50:42 ben_vulpes: nTransactionFee = 0

17:50:45 ben_vulpes: fMinimizeToTray = 0

17:50:46 punkman: why do you have 40k addresses?

17:50:48 ben_vulpes: fMinimizeOnClose = 0

17:50:51 ben_vulpes: fUseProxy = 0

17:50:54 ben_vulpes: addrProxy = 127.0.0.1:9050

17:51:55 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225757 << i like the deedbot idea; that is submit patches as deeds. The mailing list has stuff i need to decrypt/verify anyway, and I'm not a big fan of email in general

17:51:55 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:45:46; mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.

17:53:02 ben_vulpes: meep. sorry.

17:53:04 danielpbarron: I also like the idea of a webpage (maybe a wiki) that organizes it all, linking to the deeded content of course

17:53:39 ben_vulpes: punkman: hell if i know

17:54:08 punkman: a standalone Ada wallet would be an interesting project

17:54:58 ascii_field: punkman: perhaps if you ask mircea_popescu nicely, he'll give you a copy

17:55:02 punkman: I grabbed a random Ada book last week, it was awful. need to look again

18:00:14 gernika: punkman - I have the Ada 95 reference manual. Seems thorough. Also you can print out a copy of the GNAT User's Guide at Kinkos - which I've also done. Haven't actually made any progress in reading it but... Seems good by looking at TOC.

18:00:21 mod6: ;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx!

18:00:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:03:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66900 @ 0.00054662 = 36.5689 BTC [+]

18:03:47 punkman: gernika, my beard being short, I'm looking for something closer to "Ada for dummies"

18:05:11 punkman: I'm also tempted to go with Ada 2005 so I can have all teh unicodez

18:05:49 ascii_field: 'Ada for software engineers', M. Ben-Ari.

18:06:00 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: has warez?

18:06:05 ascii_field: 'Data structures with Ada.', Michael B. Feldman.

18:06:29 ascii_field: 'Ada for programmers.', Eric W. Olsen.

18:07:43 ascii_field: 'Ada 95: The Lovelace Tutorial.' David A. Wheeler << probably the most n00bish

18:08:02 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't digitized copies of these. but doesn't hurt to look around

18:08:23 ascii_field: anyone seriously into the subject will also want the 'standard' and 'rationale' documents.

18:08:37 punkman: http://kto.web.elte.hu/oktatas/ada/books/ase.pdf 'Ada for software engineers'

18:08:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQYHuR )

18:09:41 ascii_field: neato

18:09:52 ascii_field: actually, the best book i have so far is in ru

18:10:12 ascii_field: written by, of all people, fella claiming to be former lead programmer of ukraine central bank...

18:17:18 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:22:19 punkman: "Like any contract, the Ada Referebce Manual is written in very precise language, and the term ‘language lawyer’ is often used for people who are experts at interpreting the document."

18:22:34 ascii_field: it has chapter, verse, line numbers

18:22:39 ascii_field: like talmud.

18:24:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41613 @ 0.00053474 = 22.2521 BTC [-]

18:49:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83950 @ 0.00054068 = 45.3901 BTC [+]

18:53:20 mod6: so I've looked at deedbot.org

18:53:30 mod6: and I like the site, and the bitchin motif

18:53:49 mod6: i also like how it lines up the signatures to a specific hash horizontally

18:53:50 shinohai: deedbot.org rules

18:53:54 mod6: however

18:54:25 mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:

18:54:45 mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html

18:54:46 assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )

18:55:16 mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.

18:55:30 trinque: mod6: heh I did the site with a nod to the foundation's

18:55:32 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:55:42 trinque: mod6: as for how deedbot- might be used, not clearly defined yet

18:55:43 mod6: trinque: i think it's awesome :]

18:55:45 ascii_field: clearsigning MUTILATES

18:55:47 trinque: just one spitball of many

18:55:49 mod6: ^

18:55:54 mod6: ascii_field has it

18:55:56 trinque: does it have to be clear?

18:56:01 ascii_field: for deedbot!

18:56:06 trinque: I could change the thing

18:56:27 mod6: will deedbot take 2 parameters, a non-signed .patch file and a detached signature and somehow colese them?

18:56:41 ascii_field: who thought this was a good idea, and why

18:56:42 trinque: thought gpg could wad a sig and a file together in other ways than clearsign

18:56:51 ascii_field: even worse, imho, in every respect, than ml

18:57:01 punkman: you can also --armor --sign instead of clearsign

18:57:03 mod6: ascii_field: im simply referring to the converstaion from this morning

18:57:04 ascii_field: deedbot as adjunct to ml - works

18:57:06 trinque: I gotta depart to a meeting, but to summarize I have no strong opinion that deedbot is the solution

18:57:07 ascii_field: but as replacement?!

18:57:24 trinque: was merely saying I am willing to put in the work *should* deedbot- be some part of it

18:58:08 ben_vulpes: we're just exploring the possibility space here

18:58:12 ben_vulpes: !up n6

18:58:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108450 @ 0.00053321 = 57.8266 BTC [-] {3}

18:58:18 danielpbarron: can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ?

18:58:27 mod6: i've been thinking alot about the ML issues that have been brought up lately. and lastnight I bascially came up with: Mailing list A: for all submissions testing or experimental or otherwise.. Mailing list B: for accepted, signed and released patches, in order. And jurov's /patch.html (or w/e its called) should draw from there.

18:58:35 trinque: danielpbarron: punkman has it; --armor --sign

18:58:37 mod6: danielpbarron: we're not talking about encryed docs

18:58:38 trinque: and then yeah decrypt on the other end

18:58:51 trinque: danielpbarron: yeah but you can do a sig in similar fashion

18:58:57 trinque: where it's a wad o... what, base64?

18:59:00 trinque: I don't remember

18:59:08 trinque: er last was for mod6

18:59:12 *: trinque departs!

18:59:14 n6: thanks ben_vulpes, can anyone help me make a call file for http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-07-2015#1202737 ? never made one and keep coming up with errors.

18:59:14 assbot: Logged on 15-07-2015 19:25:10; solrodar: http://178.62.64.22/dot-filter.py << instructions at top

18:59:39 punkman: yeah it's a base64 blob that includes file and signature when you --sign --armor

18:59:45 danielpbarron: what about this: gzip the patch and clearsign that

19:00:01 *: jurov gasps

19:00:18 mod6: see, we could uu encode stuff or gzip stuff or do any number of things, but then it's far less readable "as-is"

19:00:18 ben_vulpes: n6: all of my noodling on the topic resides at http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/

19:00:20 assbot: Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1gXRYVd )

19:00:28 mod6: and i thought that was kinda one of the requirements.

19:00:32 mod6: "easy to read"

19:00:37 ben_vulpes: mod6: not that my browser will do anything with the patch files but download them.

19:01:29 mod6: that's fine, but what if I just wanna look through the submitted patches in deedbot? i now have to do a bunch of extra gyrations to even see the text

19:01:52 ben_vulpes: there's always /patches.html...

19:02:41 punkman: I just mentioned it as an easy way to make deeds out of patches

19:02:45 danielpbarron: deedbot isn't where you go to read it all; it's where you go to verify it all

19:02:55 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable.

19:03:14 mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions?

19:03:14 punkman: (or deeds out of binaries)

19:03:23 mod6: and there are 75`000 people and 50 submissions per day?

19:03:39 mod6: could be scripted i suppose... but just sayin

19:03:40 punkman: wat

19:03:50 mod6: punkman: taking it back to the earlier premise.

19:04:11 mod6: are you guys following what I'm saying?

19:05:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53705 @ 0.00054068 = 29.0372 BTC [+]

19:07:50 mod6: maybe not. lol.

19:08:01 n6: ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your callgraph.sh, what am I missing?

19:08:16 punkman: mod6, "unsigned new submissions" < wat

19:08:30 ben_vulpes: n6 i have no idea, buddy

19:08:46 ben_vulpes: n6: are you running on os x?

19:08:52 n6: yes.

19:09:02 ben_vulpes: ah well

19:09:07 ben_vulpes: you're on your own brave soul

19:09:16 mod6: punkman: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable. <+mod6> what about for unsigned new submissions?

19:09:26 mod6: how does anything get into /patch.html ?

19:09:29 ben_vulpes: i recommend spinning up an aws gentoo instance. i've given up on macos support for this project.

19:09:31 mod6: it first must be signed.

19:09:52 n6: I will try that, thanks.

19:10:01 ben_vulpes: n6: i understand that this is not a welcome message.

19:10:07 mod6: and /patch.html imho should not draw off of just any submission, only signed submissions from ben, myself and the author.

19:10:21 mod6: it still doesn't help me view a base64 encoded submission to the deedbot

19:10:24 ben_vulpes: n6: d'you plan to get into the wot as well?

19:10:36 n6: ben_vulpes: what more welcoming then support for free?

19:10:41 n6: I'm already in the wot just have to auth.

19:10:48 ben_vulpes: !gettrust n6

19:10:49 assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user n6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=n6 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/n6/

19:11:05 mod6: anyway, the main point i wanted to bring up re: clearsigned patches into deedbot was this email: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html

19:11:06 assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )

19:11:37 mod6: as you can see clearsign mangles the text: - --- a/rotor.sh .... - -../dist/configure

19:11:52 mod6: gnupg tries to escape lines that begin with a dash

19:12:01 jurov: mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it

19:12:03 mod6: s/tries to//

19:12:04 ben_vulpes: !rate n6 1 crusty blood

19:12:04 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/596b688700f85b60

19:12:29 mod6: jurov: to me thats an extra step... is that what we're all prepared to live with?

19:12:37 n6: thanks, I'm going to try and get this to work and come back

19:12:55 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.n6.1:e630ded4962e532d208a74d782ea9c37451b0858c31fb4280fd9f2c7ddce525e

19:12:55 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for n6 with note: crusty blood

19:13:17 jurov: mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step

19:13:45 mod6: i'd like to make something better, this is for sure. just whatever it is, i wanna know that it is better, not just sideways.

19:13:47 punkman: 30 pages in, "Ada for Software Engineers", the code examples look gnarly

19:13:58 jurov: turdatron needs to take bundles of patch + manifest (at least, can be any other files aside from patches)

19:14:13 jurov: and metadata what the patch applies on

19:14:28 jurov: question is, how to do this all better?

19:14:56 mod6: good question. not sure that i have any useful answers here at this time.

19:15:08 mod6: other than what I already talked about and that's not really better either.

19:15:58 mod6: i guess im just trying to picture in my mind how i would have to use, step by step, the proposed system every single day.

19:16:26 mod6: and if those proposed steps are easier/better than what we currently hvae.

19:16:34 jurov: maybe we end up all using a script to put the package together and sign it.. but in this case it can just output an email message to be just fed to sendmail

19:17:24 jurov: or if someone come up with less turdy format than MIME

19:17:42 punkman: I wouldn't mind something like http://gogs.io/ but too much css I guess

19:17:44 assbot: Gogs: Go Git Service - A painless self-hosted Git service ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTzyTP )

19:20:29 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step << i think partly ... my general concern is my understanding of how this proposed system would work. this concern is based on the fact that when the current system was proposed, i had the oppertunity to speak out and put in my say in the matter, but I didn't understand it so I don't think I objected very much. and now look at where we are.

19:20:55 mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.

19:21:25 ascii_field: colour me thick, but i still don't get where the 'crisis' is

19:21:28 jurov: so you still not understand what's this all about?

19:23:07 ascii_field: yes, i agree with mircea_popescu re: how patches should embed hash of antecedent file. and imho this solves whatever problem exists (that is, enables it to be solved locally by any participant, in the style he prefers)

19:23:40 ascii_field: while preserving the simultaneously total and minimal representation of .patch

19:25:04 mod6: I think I need to see a concrete example of this - end to end. I just can't picutre it mentally.

19:25:11 jurov: yes that one is solved. but deedbot can be used only if clearsigned and without any accompanying text

19:25:51 jurov: mod6 you have seen alf's patch with embedded sha512 example?

19:25:57 jurov: !up ascii_field

19:26:17 jurov: if yes we can start from there

19:26:31 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225713 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225715

19:26:31 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:50; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original

19:26:31 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:56; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented

19:26:39 *: mod6 looks

19:27:25 jurov: !up fromphuctor

19:27:41 mod6: ok and that sha512 hash is of the file /before/ the changes were made resulting in the patch?

19:27:48 mod6: (the unchanged original file)

19:27:50 jurov: yes

19:28:14 mod6: ok. will diff take that and run it and ignore that first line with the hash?

19:28:32 jurov: no, must roll ou our won diff/patch

19:28:38 jurov: *roll out

19:28:48 ascii_field: mod6: it will

19:29:00 ascii_field: because comment

19:29:09 mod6: it does now, or it will because we must now reinvent diff/patch ?

19:29:13 ascii_field: what it won't do is take the hash into account when patching

19:29:21 ascii_field: that requires either modified 'patch' util, or wrapped in perl etc

19:29:24 jurov: but it's universally usable to (1) determine what version patch applies to (2) allows to remove files without listing whole contents

19:29:30 ascii_field: ^

19:30:18 mod6: ok forget that im still confused for a moment because im dumb, and maybe I'll just get it in a few minutes...

19:30:19 ascii_field: this magic pill lets you take a bag of patches, and determine in what order they apply

19:30:26 mod6: how do we reconsile this with the patches already created/applied

19:30:28 mod6: ?

19:30:29 ascii_field: by scripted brute force if necessary

19:30:42 ascii_field: mod6: easy. i take mine and sign'em again

19:30:48 ascii_field: and the rest of us, same.

19:30:55 ascii_field: not so many that this is a mega-labour

19:30:56 punkman: or can start from next release

19:31:03 ascii_field: aha.

19:31:03 mod6: so everyone else from the beginning of time (october 24th 2014) must resign all patches?

19:31:04 ascii_field: also works

19:31:15 ascii_field: all what, 25 of'em

19:33:21 mod6: i need to re-read all of the logs from today and have a nice long "think" about it.

19:33:33 hanbot: mod6: ;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx! << heya, i've got one

19:33:47 ben_vulpes: poor mod6 can't catch a break around here

19:34:14 hanbot: (am starting today's logs myself)

19:34:17 mircea_popescu: mod6 sounds liek a plan

19:35:30 ascii_field: mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine

19:35:40 ascii_field: mod6: in the interest of maintaining the 'tree from beginning of the world' thing

19:35:57 ascii_field: which a robotic graphatron could then walk

19:36:21 mircea_popescu: good idea this

19:38:42 mod6: i kinda like what i heard about that earlier.

19:39:20 mod6: i gotta think about it a bit

19:39:33 trinque: putting the information to construct the tree in the patches themselves has a nice decentralized nature to it

19:42:43 mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine << ok no rush here. lemme just re-read and think about all of these things for a bit.

19:45:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225198 << blessfully, i don't think we're short these, by any sort of conceivable measure. nobody has that quality*count. we were however becoming a little short in organizing their effort, but i think that's resolving.

19:45:00 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:44:32; asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc

19:46:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225210 << apparently not. emulate me, will you!

19:46:00 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:48:02; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper

19:46:38 ascii_field: l0l

19:48:13 mircea_popescu: the "rocks fall, everyone dies" of ai : "write mp emulator"

19:48:39 shinohai: mod6: debian wen fine again: Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 (2015-07-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux

19:48:46 shinohai: I saved the hated Ubuntu for last

19:48:48 *: ascii_field played privately with a mircea_popescu (from log linez) shannonizer

19:48:50 ascii_field: it was lulzy

19:48:57 mircea_popescu: anything good ?

19:49:00 ascii_field: esp when set against one made from me

19:49:12 mircea_popescu: post the bash thereof lol

19:49:16 ascii_field: nah i get to see enough meat shannonizing in real life

19:49:19 ascii_field: doubt anyone wants this

19:49:24 ascii_field: but if yes - then will, at some point

19:50:00 mircea_popescu: why do you think people read reddit ? it's got shannonappeal.

19:50:01 ascii_field: also this is pretty easy to write and good exercise for n00bz

19:50:07 mod6: shinohai: excellent work! thank you. these are the first steps in a series of similar things needed.

19:51:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15440 @ 0.0005467 = 8.441 BTC [+] {6}

19:56:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225245 << you're sounding like you expect this to be exceptional ? how the fuck often do i rebuild anything! what's more often than "once per machinbe" ? on ce per season ? recompile every election november ? once per pair of underwear ?

19:56:15 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:53:37; asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~

19:59:15 mircea_popescu: this incidentally would be a pretty great equivalent of old style personality cult bs. all os must contain picture of stalin. once he dies, computing takes day off while everyone recompiles new picture in. for everything.

19:59:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:59:29 BingoBoingo: Oh, the many ways and times qntra suffers the slings and arrows of DDoS. People just can't stop endorsing us this way

19:59:31 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: vs when tree updates

19:59:33 mircea_popescu: bestkoreaos

19:59:44 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aww, again ?

19:59:55 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you just described glibc, l0l

19:59:59 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah been going on for a couple hours nao

20:00:59 mircea_popescu: "fixed".

20:01:05 mircea_popescu: ascii_field lulzy is lulzy.

20:02:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225256 << me recalls when people noticed the "make directory dev (mkdir dev). navigate to it (cd dev)" snippet.

20:02:32 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:55:30; ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out

20:02:35 mircea_popescu: it IS USEFUL.

20:02:57 mircea_popescu: in the strictly limited but ever present sense that its presence prevents its absence from being harmful.

20:03:16 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is a fan of knuth's 'literate programming' ?

20:03:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119200 @ 0.0005489 = 65.4289 BTC [+] {6}

20:03:27 mircea_popescu: sure.

20:03:37 mircea_popescu: i'm a fan of knuth generally.

20:03:44 ascii_field: http://www.literateprogramming.com << apparently exists !

20:03:45 assbot: Literate Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRlDJB )

20:04:00 mircea_popescu: he may be argued with it, but so far without exception the "you'll come to agree, because you're smart and i'm right" controlled to date.

20:04:13 ascii_field: nah that's dijkstra

20:04:15 ascii_field: but sure.

20:04:19 mircea_popescu: same person.

20:04:23 ascii_field: l0l

20:04:38 ascii_field: shared beard.

20:05:08 mircea_popescu: i wonder how they dereference it.

20:06:17 mircea_popescu: actually i have nfi why knuth's book isn't the basis of cs in the us.

20:06:27 mircea_popescu: much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really

20:06:49 ascii_field: http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.S;h=45e6e854a5d2a4c3f26af264dfce56379d401425;hb=HEAD << example of literate programming alive

20:06:52 assbot: 192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.S ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRm4Uk )

20:07:03 ascii_field: (my personal favourite. mirror - original vanished)

20:07:47 ascii_field: my imaginary bitcoin book was to be a work of 'literate programming'

20:07:49 ascii_field: for example.

20:07:56 mircea_popescu: actually it's perfect.

20:08:03 *: ascii_field sadly pines for the book

20:10:18 *: mircea_popescu briefly considers mirroring it, then notices it's actually histed on author's own domain, desists.

20:10:40 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.f;h=5c1309574ae1165195a43250c19c822ab8681671;hb=HEAD << the other half of it

20:10:42 assbot: 192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.f ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRmBWh )

20:10:44 ascii_field: and yes, it runs

20:10:52 ascii_field: and is a complete os, in a sense

20:10:57 ascii_field: cople kb.

20:11:01 ascii_field: *couple-a

20:11:05 mircea_popescu: looks pretty hairshirty.

20:11:22 ascii_field: but not really. 'simple as possible, not simpler'

20:11:38 ascii_field: there's a fella somewhere who wrote an 'arm' version, if any aficionados of that arch are reading this

20:12:08 shinohai: I'm none too thrilled with my foray into arm since bitcoin

20:12:36 ascii_field: shinohai: why?

20:13:13 shinohai: I'm still not at a level where I can cross-compile. So I have a rather useless box atm.

20:13:29 ascii_field: shinohai: you have 'rotor' built, yes ?

20:13:43 shinohai: yup

20:14:12 shinohai: binary still doesn't run on mah pogo so I did something wrong.

20:14:27 ascii_field: didja set the arch to arm ?

20:15:05 shinohai: I need to see someone's build log that doesn't mind sharing, I'm sire it will click what I'm not changing.

20:15:29 ascii_field: i guess this is one more thing i will have to post.

20:16:40 shinohai: Once I do figure out this necromancy, I am sure I will kick myself for the next 2-3 years for failing to see it.

20:17:07 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226167 << i personally prefer landau

20:17:07 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 20:06:27; mircea_popescu: much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really

20:17:43 mircea_popescu: for russian kids.

20:18:02 mircea_popescu: let each culture have its own fucking buildings already. what is this globalisation.

20:19:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225356 << this actually sounds sane.

20:19:40 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 06:40:49; BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.

20:19:40 ascii_field: where is the zimbabwean landau, aha

20:20:28 ascii_field: btw there is a pretty fine british translation

20:21:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field zimbabwean may not be a thing.

20:21:12 ascii_field: and didn't mircea_popescu eat it in french l0l

20:21:14 mircea_popescu: and sure, there is.

20:21:22 mircea_popescu: and yes, i did.

20:21:45 mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing it be forbidden or anything. just, i give localised first choice.

20:22:20 mircea_popescu: i made italian slavegirl read d.c. and english slavegirl read shakespeare not the other way around. why not ? works either way after all, by definition.

20:22:34 *: ascii_field pictures the gurlz lapping up feynman

20:24:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225397 ,<< "from around the world".

20:24:12 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 07:32:13; punkman: even though patent dates to 1974

20:24:27 mircea_popescu: at least it wasn't built with the ground up with getting laid in mind, so i guess there is that.

20:31:28 diametric: !up ascii_field

20:31:53 mircea_popescu: ascii_field mike_c and whomever else concerned : http://fraudsters.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/#comment-114967 ?

20:31:54 assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRpgiH )

20:32:17 ascii_field: appears to display

20:32:36 mike_c: ah, good news. fixed for me.

20:32:50 ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu

20:32:53 mircea_popescu: does it also verify ?

20:34:19 ascii_field: nope.

20:34:35 mike_c: html and pgp don't mix

20:34:48 ascii_field: Dear MP,\n

20:34:48 ascii_field: gpg: invalid armor header:

20:34:48 ascii_field: gpg: Signature made Tue Aug 4 23:13:13 2015 EDT using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7

20:34:48 ascii_field: gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy <stas@loper-os.org>"

20:36:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225448 << get out of here. back in 2012 i was in a chan just like this one (or so it seemed), surrounded by idiots who blessfully got pushed out of bitcoiun by their own mentally stunted disability, but who at the time BELIEVED.

20:36:12 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 08:17:50; BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.

20:36:22 mircea_popescu: like they believe in global warming and fuck knows what else.

20:36:28 mircea_popescu: as a substitute for a personality.

20:36:52 ben_vulpes: ascii_field, mircea_popescu: didn't hanbot teach us about the dangers of html and gpg earlier?

20:37:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's one or the other it seems. either i <pre> it which makes it verify, but then linmes are fixed length. or else iu don't, which lets you read it, but ascii gets fucked.

20:37:23 mircea_popescu: the pill for this would be : never ever sign a cleartext with lines longer than the signature.

20:37:57 mike_c: or add some css for pre

20:37:59 trinque: could do that derpy overflow-x: auto in css at the cost of an eyesore scrollbar

20:38:01 trinque: yeah

20:38:03 ascii_field: ugh

20:38:13 mircea_popescu: i suppose i could add a style markup to the pre tag.

20:38:17 mircea_popescu: anyone know right off what it is ?

20:38:30 trinque: mircea_popescu: that one I said, if you want a scrollbar

20:38:37 trinque: overflow-x: auto;

20:38:38 mircea_popescu: "style=overflow-x:auto;" ?

20:38:51 *: ascii_field blissfully ignorant of this matter

20:38:52 ben_vulpes: trinque: continuing our windowing and emacs sojurn: https://github.com/ch11ng/exwm

20:38:53 assbot: ch11ng/exwm · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRq0UZ )

20:38:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62800 @ 0.00053312 = 33.4799 BTC [-]

20:38:53 trinque: style="overflow-x: auto"

20:39:04 mike_c: sheesh, put a semicolon at the end :)

20:39:27 mircea_popescu: isn't there a style that makes it wrap ?

20:39:28 trinque: mike_c: not required by the spec

20:39:42 mike_c: really? hm. spec is lazy.

20:40:04 mike_c: mircea_popescu: yeah, linewrap.

20:40:21 mircea_popescu: can i plox has usable format ty

20:40:30 mike_c: if you throw it up with the pre I can play with it and give you good css?

20:40:45 trinque: there's white-space: pre-wrap in css3

20:40:50 trinque: mircea_popescu: ^

20:40:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00053312 = 3.1987 BTC [-]

20:41:06 mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7

20:41:07 mircea_popescu: gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy <stas@loper-os.org>"

20:41:16 mircea_popescu: in victory radio news, the thing doesn't work anymore full stop.

20:42:10 trinque: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/white-space << options

20:42:12 assbot: white-space - CSS | MDN ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqr1w )

20:43:44 trinque: mike_c | really? hm. spec is lazy. << yup, everything in the browser has the squish of trying to be maximally permissive

20:44:17 mike_c: i concur, still doesn't verify. overflow-x did make the scrollbar appear all the way at bottom, still sucks. white-space: pre-wrap also works, and makes the line breaks look even worse, but content is at least all visible.

20:45:11 mike_c: Feels like a line-ending problem. dpaste the original?

20:45:15 mircea_popescu: still bad signature.

20:45:20 mike_c: yeah

20:45:41 mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2Y7KA8E.txt

20:45:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqRFj )

20:45:43 deedbot-: accepted: 1

20:45:46 mircea_popescu: original works.

20:46:06 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/5BPo3BK.jpg

20:46:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqSZV )

20:46:08 mircea_popescu: there was an issue where pre created a new line. why ? FUCK YOU FOR USING THINGS THATS WHY

20:46:16 mircea_popescu: but even with that fixed, still broken

20:46:30 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: ew

20:47:02 mike_c: I think mpex method is perhaps best method. Just show the text and link to verifiable text blob.

20:47:11 ben_vulpes: ^^

20:47:13 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Only so many nuggets I can do when qntra under DDoS

20:47:25 trinque: a literal shit-heel...

20:47:26 ascii_field: mike_c, ben_vulpes: sad that text has to appear twice

20:47:31 trinque: the wonders in life, man

20:48:02 mircea_popescu: yeah i guess so mike_c

20:48:27 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i still don't get it, why was it necessary to shit in a bath tub ?

20:48:48 mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's reddit baiting.\

20:48:49 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Because OP was "galaxy" sized

20:49:01 mircea_popescu: people used to try and suck producer cock to "be a tv star"

20:49:10 ascii_field: iirc they make custom 'american' toilets for this

20:49:10 mircea_popescu: now they sit on couch try to "invent viral memes"

20:49:24 ascii_field: somebody linked one earlier

20:49:48 mircea_popescu: mike_c anyway ima link to deedbot just as soon as it pops.

20:49:51 ascii_field: (photo of reinforced mega-toilet)

20:50:17 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Installing toilet is work. Acquiring toilet costs money that could be spent on Beetus fuel.

20:50:30 mike_c: technology aside, that is still good news. Perhaps 2015 will be the year!

20:51:08 mircea_popescu: ya srsly.

20:51:26 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: embrace the webshit. iframe to signed thinger!

20:51:38 ascii_field: ick

20:51:50 ben_vulpes: embrace the shit

20:51:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225462 << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ?

20:51:53 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 08:27:03; BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.

20:51:54 *: ascii_field actually wrote a web thing!

20:51:54 ben_vulpes: swallow the shit

20:51:56 ben_vulpes: love the shit

20:51:57 ascii_field: (phuctor)

20:52:11 *: ben_vulpes goes looking for shitposts

20:52:50 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ? Hard to stick in portable machine. Also problem isn't machine. Problem is cg isn't available as source or for OpenBDSM

20:53:05 ben_vulpes: But thoughtful Pointsman, anticipating this, has been sending laxative pills with her meals. Now her intestines whine softly, and she feels shit begin to slide down and out. He kneels with his arms up holding the rich cape. A dark turd appears out the crevice, out of the absolute darkness between her white buttocks. He spreads his knees, awkwardly, until he can feel the leather of her boots. He leans forward to surround the hot turd

20:53:05 ben_vulpes: with his lips, sucking on it tenderly, licking along its lower side . . . he is thinking, he’s sorry, he can’t help it, thinking of a Negro’s penis, yes he knows it abrogates part of the conditions set, but it will not be denied, the image of a brute African who will make him behave. . . . The stink of shit floods his nose, gathering him, surrounding. It is the smell of Passchendaele, of the Salient. Mixed with the mud, and the

20:53:05 ben_vulpes: putrefaction of corpses, it was the sovereign smell of their first meeting, and her emblem. The turd slides into his mouth, down to his gullet. He gags, but bravely clamps his teeth shut. Bread that would only have floated in porcelain waters somewhere, unseen, untasted—risen now and baked in the bitter intestinal Oven to bread we know, bread that’s light as domestic comfort, secret as death in bed . . . Spasms in his throat

20:53:05 ben_vulpes: continue. The pain is terrible. With his tongue he mashes shit against the roof of his mouth and begins to chew, thickly now, the only sound in the room. . . .

20:53:14 ben_vulpes: (Pynchon)

20:53:41 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that's a point huh.

20:54:01 BingoBoingo: Turn out Eulora isn't completely Open Source yet.

20:54:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: When I get time though I'll try chopping Eulora to remove the parts that depend on it and see if it works

20:54:37 ascii_field: aha, this is why i haven't tried it yet personally

20:54:59 mircea_popescu: honestly i don't even recall how or why cg is in there. mebbe chetty can shed a light

20:55:16 BingoBoingo: It's probably there for shader effects

20:55:25 mircea_popescu: you can definitely turn those off.

20:55:54 BingoBoingo: Best way to turn off is with <delete> key

20:56:50 BingoBoingo: Also Crystal space uses cg at least until its next release

20:56:50 mircea_popescu: hey, i'd be all for a special "all open" client if you feel like doing this

20:57:36 mircea_popescu: do it, get some pickaxes to dig up the euloran lands

20:57:50 BingoBoingo: I'll give it a try

20:58:53 BingoBoingo: If anyone else better equipped for task wants to attempt They would probably require less time.

20:59:20 mircea_popescu: no shortage of tasks.

20:59:53 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Ubuntu builds fine for me w/ image provided.

20:59:53 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:00:37 mod6: w00t

21:00:42 mod6: thanks shinohai

21:01:12 shinohai: nw, vm building was a bit slow but I chalk it up to Ubuntu bloat.

21:02:36 mod6: if anyone else wants to try here are the steps: http://dpaste.com/1Q96E5N.txt

21:02:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsLWh )

21:02:38 shinohai: !up ascii_field

21:02:52 ascii_field: since my broadcast was mentioned: any interest in 'rotolinux' ?

21:02:56 mod6: please ensure that you are running x86_64 by doing `uname -a`

21:03:13 gernika: ^^

21:03:29 mod6: if NOT, if you're running i686 or i386, replace auto.sh with: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000071.html

21:03:30 assbot: [BTC-dev] Modified Portatronic build script for building statically linked 32bit bitcoind: auto.sh (v0.0.5-32) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsTVK )

21:03:44 shinohai: *32-bit and Winblowze coming soon (tm)*

21:03:55 *: mod6 slaps shinohai with a large unix manual

21:04:34 shinohai: I spent all day yesterday getting slapped by Windows users asking questions about gaming.

21:04:40 ascii_field: i'd sooner port to 'amiga'

21:04:44 ascii_field: but - to each his own

21:05:03 shinohai: I refuse to buy a Windows box just to play a game.

21:05:21 mod6: i had a neighbor once who showed me his amiga. never stopped raving about it.

21:05:46 mod6: this was like in '06... it still worked. *shrug*

21:06:15 shinohai: I still have my childhood Tandy

21:09:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225836 < word./

21:09:03 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:27:45; trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons

21:10:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225862 << explain to me why do you need magic numbers.

21:10:25 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 17:15:51; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!!

21:10:36 ascii_field: ?

21:10:42 mircea_popescu: what do you suppose a binary is ?

21:10:51 ascii_field: an unmutilated string of bitz

21:11:00 mircea_popescu: all binaries are magic numbers.

21:11:04 mircea_popescu: they do not belong in the code pot.

21:11:49 ascii_field: can't post unmutilated - can't sign

21:11:53 ascii_field: just the way it is.

21:12:11 mircea_popescu: i dun follow

21:12:20 ascii_field: didn't we just have this thread ?

21:12:25 ascii_field: re: s.nsa broadcast?

21:12:29 mircea_popescu: maybe i had an aneurism or something.

21:12:36 mircea_popescu: but that's not a bin oh you mean text-as-binary ?

21:12:56 ascii_field: retarded code rapes text because it can

21:13:16 mircea_popescu: well calling it "binary" doesn't protect it you know, just confuses me. but i see what you mean.

21:13:18 ascii_field: 'binary' is what folks call strings of bits that will die if raped

21:13:37 ascii_field: hence why i insist that a turdatron must support 'binaries'

21:13:48 ascii_field: because enough with the rape plz

21:13:56 mircea_popescu: feminist.

21:14:15 ascii_field: 'i meant what i said, and i said what i meant, a walrus is certain a hundred percent'. go, rape, but that wasn't what i signed wazzit.

21:14:45 mircea_popescu: this conversation is hateful of male values and triggers me.

21:16:04 ascii_field: can always sign uuncode, l0l

21:16:08 ascii_field: *uuencode

21:16:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225877 << im not reading that, but did you find the actual thesis ?

21:16:13 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 17:32:26; BingoBoingo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol

21:17:04 mircea_popescu: on the face seems more of gavin-the-retard having "studies" and "Economists agree" and "industreew support" bs "if we say it then it becomes a thing because magic is magic" stuff

21:17:16 mircea_popescu: ascii_field could also just be gents and not rape the text.

21:17:26 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Gavin doesn't know how mining works or is a liar.

21:17:37 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: gpg rapes.

21:17:42 ascii_field: mail client rapes

21:17:53 ascii_field: sendmail rapes

21:17:54 ascii_field: etc.

21:17:56 mircea_popescu: mail yes, but i hope to see it disused eventually. gpg does not ? afaik ?

21:18:04 ascii_field: gpg does!

21:18:12 ascii_field: see the dashes in my broadcast, for example.

21:18:27 mircea_popescu: sigh

21:18:28 ascii_field: (they get 'escaped')

21:18:41 mircea_popescu: well it needs the dashes!

21:18:43 shinohai: What potential rape may look like: https://i.imgur.com/LcKy6eQ.jpg

21:18:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gKWGWF )

21:18:48 mircea_popescu: they only get escaped if leading line!

21:18:52 ascii_field: this breaks code. (not even speaking of binaries, e.g., tarball)

21:19:10 mircea_popescu: shinohai nice tits.

21:19:11 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: regardless, can't rely on arbitrary string staying intact

21:19:21 mircea_popescu: sad but true huh.

21:19:22 mircea_popescu: -r ?

21:19:38 mircea_popescu: i HATE not being able to read shit.

21:21:34 ascii_field: -r ?

21:22:01 mircea_popescu: armorer

21:22:06 ascii_field: -a

21:22:37 mircea_popescu: heh right you are.

21:23:33 jurov: maybe we and up patching gpg to scan for unmodified content from the beginning and for signature(s) from the end

21:23:38 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << more or less fixed, i guess

21:23:39 assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM )

21:23:39 jurov: *end up

21:24:11 jurov: no mutilation needed

21:25:33 ascii_field: jurov: that still leaves the other rapists

21:25:40 ascii_field: mail clients, filters, etc

21:25:46 ascii_field: even paste buffers on some systems

21:26:58 jurov: only if you insist.

21:27:32 jurov: my mail client (kmail) allows to turn off wordwrap and html by two clicks.

21:27:38 jurov: never had any problem

21:27:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225953 << me is dutifully considering

21:27:47 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:54:25; mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:

21:28:11 ascii_field: jurov: i use squirrelmail, and - afaik - mutilatory

21:28:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field traditionally it must be observed, the problem of rapists has been resolved by controling the social group you hang out with, not by altering male anatomy.

21:29:40 ascii_field: i don't see why i oughta custom gpg, custom squirrelmail, custom shoelaces

21:30:04 jurov: you alread have custom squirrelmail

21:30:10 jurov: just not customized by you

21:30:19 jurov: :D

21:30:33 ascii_field: custom as in opening up rusted shut things that i haven't adjusted for many years

21:30:51 ascii_field: verily this is a dumb idea

21:30:58 mircea_popescu: zing.

21:31:10 mircea_popescu: "already customized!" alfie.

21:31:39 mircea_popescu: you have any idea what all the tim swansons of the world gotta do wrt rusted shut things they've not adjusted for years ?

21:31:49 mircea_popescu: you complainin' bout squirrelmail, what's ferrocranium to say ?

21:32:11 ascii_field: wai wat

21:32:44 ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?

21:32:45 ascii_field: no thx.

21:32:52 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

21:32:57 mircea_popescu: molci i susi.

21:33:10 ascii_field: i'll switch to ebcdc first.

21:33:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated.

21:33:33 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.

21:33:34 ascii_field: *ebcdic

21:33:58 ascii_field: TEXT FILES GET RAPED

21:34:11 mircea_popescu: for lack of a better example, might consider http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/foxy_eulora_craftbottar.gz (included manifest), which does in fact do this, if crudely.

21:34:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRvxeh )

21:34:20 mircea_popescu: ascii_field binary text, gimme a break.

21:34:38 mircea_popescu: a magical distillate whereby i can read it and programs don't rape it. binartytext.

21:34:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101699 @ 0.00053762 = 54.6754 BTC [+] {3}

21:35:13 ascii_field: aka gpg --deatch-sig

21:35:30 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226427 << now this is interesting. have a link?

21:35:30 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 21:32:44; ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?

21:35:54 ascii_field: jurov: no link. just experience.

21:36:16 ascii_field: but i promise to post a sample next time it pops up

21:36:20 jurov: cuz i never noticed in 10 or so years married to xfree86/xorg

21:37:11 ascii_field: jurov: possibly this is a bug triggered by locale

21:37:40 jurov: i do have locale set

21:37:49 ascii_field: you have 100% latin!

21:38:07 jurov: % ls nonex

21:38:09 jurov: ls: nie je možné pristupovať k nonex: Adresár alebo súbor neexistuje

21:38:17 jurov: ^ 100%latin

21:38:17 ascii_field: latin.

21:39:12 jurov: but anyway, we're talking about code, where do you want to use 8th bit?

21:40:15 ascii_field: jurov: nowhere in the payload proper

21:40:37 ascii_field: but reflecting on the fact that i don't always get 'out' of paste buffer what comes 'in'.

21:40:52 jurov: ok, will wait for the occassion.

21:40:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14980 @ 0.00053404 = 7.9999 BTC [-]

21:44:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225969 < me. to read.

21:44:08 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:56:41; ascii_field: who thought this was a good idea, and why

21:44:27 ascii_field: can't read patches now ?

21:44:56 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150710/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option_e35906e7432550b0cadd46bbc253258d39a8c210.patch << loads in all browsers

21:44:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRwenZ )

21:45:09 ascii_field: they're all entirely readable. what am i missing ?

21:45:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226007 < wut ?!

21:45:52 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:03:14; mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions?

21:45:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208550 @ 0.00052796 = 110.1061 BTC [-] {7}

21:46:33 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the objection to ml as is was not that individual patches are unreadable.

21:47:30 ascii_field: what, then ?

21:48:31 mircea_popescu: well i don't feel equal to the task of restating the whole conversation as ongoing for past weeks / peaked today. i'll just say : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225521

21:48:31 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 13:37:54; mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.

21:48:50 ascii_field: imho embedding antecedents solves.

21:49:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00053807 = 22.5451 BTC [+] {4}

21:49:03 mircea_popescu: if it stays as a ml, becomes a wiki, somehow otherwise including deedbot or not changes i do not care per se

21:49:14 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated. << i didn't understand that this problem could be side-stepped with gpg --decrypt

21:49:14 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.

21:49:14 mircea_popescu: just a pile of options that were considered

21:50:41 mircea_popescu: but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ?

21:50:48 jurov: so, ml can stay as is (without filename mutilation)?

21:50:49 mircea_popescu: well, grapher+verifier ideally.

21:50:58 ascii_field: that was my original suggestion earlier, yes

21:51:08 mircea_popescu: i have no objections to this

21:51:15 ascii_field: it would make it possible for, e.g., hanbot, to view the 'patchchain' cleanly

21:51:28 ascii_field: and ask meaningful questions about branches

21:51:28 jurov: plus it will detect (and optionally show decoded )clearsigned patches?

21:51:34 mircea_popescu: ^

21:51:55 mircea_popescu: and ideally, have it spit out a "final version" with regressions accessible through some procedure (clicking)

21:52:14 ascii_field: jurov: the problem is that gpg 'escaping' is not a reversible operation

21:52:36 ascii_field: in that it is impossible for the machine to determine that a particular '- -' is to be transformed into a '-' or not

21:52:42 mircea_popescu: you just remove "- " from all lines :D

21:52:46 ascii_field: the 'escape' operation is thermodynamically lossy.

21:52:52 mod6: ascii_field: so does `gpg --decrypt` work for that as danielpbarron & jurov said?

21:53:00 ascii_field: mod6; decrypt ?

21:53:06 mod6: they said ...

21:53:08 *: mod6 scrolls back

21:53:19 ascii_field: it solves nothing

21:53:28 jurov: well, if gpg can't undo it and it causes the patch to fail...then it fails.

21:53:39 jurov: sender will have to resend with detached sig

21:53:51 mod6: <+danielpbarron> can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ? <+jurov> mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it

21:54:00 ascii_field: 'undoes'

21:54:10 ascii_field: will destroy certain non-escaped text.

21:54:13 ascii_field: as described earlier.

21:54:21 mod6: so mutilates

21:54:24 ascii_field: aha.

21:54:32 mod6: ok then we're settled.

21:55:34 mod6: i guess for me thats the one big thing, we can't have any mutilation of the patch files. or we'll just find ourselves banging our heads all the time.

21:55:43 ascii_field: ^^

21:55:58 jurov: it computes shasums of everything submitted already

21:56:05 mircea_popescu: i just tried this... it doesn't mutilate on encrypt/decrypt

21:56:07 jurov: can check easily

21:56:09 mod6: and honestly, this is no poor reflection on deedbot. the thing is cool.

21:56:42 mircea_popescu: ie, - came out as - and - - as - -

21:58:01 ascii_field: that's because the output of 'encrypt' is a base64 turd that isn't expected to coexist with text the way a clearsigned string is.

21:58:05 jurov: as with xorg buffer, i'm curious, will see if anyone submits something with valid sig that gpg fails to unescape.

21:58:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00052531 = 6.724 BTC [-]

21:58:40 mircea_popescu: ascii_field right

21:59:14 mod6: ah, encrypt/decrypt, but we want clearsign or am i misunderstanding this?

21:59:31 ascii_field: mod6: somebody wanted 'clearsigned patches'

21:59:36 jurov: mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file

21:59:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup...

21:59:41 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.

21:59:50 ascii_field: and i was trying to explain that this is deeply broken

21:59:51 jurov: will spew out the original

22:00:06 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup... << lol indeed

22:00:06 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.

22:03:14 mircea_popescu: tbh an equivalent of the callgraph / mike's wot graph but for PATCHES would not be amiss.

22:03:23 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

22:03:39 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: to be clear, that is precisely what i had in mind when suggested the hash embed thing

22:03:42 mircea_popescu: have all the wot listed on the side. have all the patches AS A TREE listed next to it. have relations from wot tyo patches.

22:03:50 ascii_field: aha.

22:03:56 mircea_popescu: this would help me immensely.

22:04:40 jurov: can enlist trinque or anyone's help with graphics

22:05:08 mircea_popescu: so basically ml as restateds + grapher in the sense of the above, svg (clickable) is really the definitive word on this ?

22:05:31 jurov: clickable svg *gasp* :D

22:05:35 mircea_popescu: already sounds like a quantum leap tbh

22:05:44 mircea_popescu: jurov wut!

22:05:49 ascii_field: this is precisely what i had in mind, aha

22:06:02 mircea_popescu: mod6 ^ give that a long think.

22:06:15 ascii_field: (when i said 'graph walker' earlier today)

22:06:35 mircea_popescu: trinque and with a bonus "click here for this patch" and "click here for this patch + all its antecedents" spew.

22:07:15 ascii_field: 'show who signed this'

22:07:28 ascii_field: 'load all sigs'

22:07:33 mircea_popescu: epic.

22:08:05 ascii_field: first needs the chicken, err, the embedded antecedent indicators

22:08:07 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 ^ give that a long think. << i like this idea with the wot graph + source patches as a tree next to it so relations can be easily seen & drilled into.

22:08:14 mircea_popescu: yes.

22:08:31 mircea_popescu: i knew this was a tooling problem mostly. pretty much 99% of all that's needed is already here.

22:08:38 mircea_popescu: just need to amass the pile into a sane shape

22:08:46 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> already sounds like a quantum leap tbh << it is.

22:10:07 mircea_popescu: and opbvciously, with a checkbox "allow this antecedent"

22:10:17 mircea_popescu: pruning the tree of all ulteriors that depend on an unclicked patch

22:10:29 jurov: and "launch missiles"

22:11:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00055024 = 8.6938 BTC [+] {2}

22:12:40 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file << this indeed works. created file A.txt. copied A.txt to B.txt and subtracted some lines. created a unified diff of both. clearsigned the diff -- which is mutilated for escaped hyphens. upon `gpg --decrypt` of the clearsigned output patch file, i get the same hash as the pre-clearsigned hash file.

22:17:16 mod6: *patch file.

22:18:38 mod6: main difference seems to be... we would now need to enter our password every time to verify the signature as opposed to just --verify

22:19:12 ascii_field: no-go.

22:19:24 mod6: oh actually, im wrong about that.

22:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47037 @ 0.00055025 = 25.8821 BTC [+] {5}

22:19:34 mod6: it doesn't ask. derp.

22:19:47 ascii_field: this is still procrustean

22:19:52 mod6: was gonna say. "how does that makes sense?!"

22:21:51 mod6: had to look that up.

22:21:55 mod6: ok well, yah

22:24:41 jurov: ;;ud procrustean

22:24:42 gribble: Google found nothing.

22:25:27 mod6: ok so another question i have about the deedbot way.. would be: if we submit a patch to deedbot, how do we tie a message to that same submission? say we wanna be like "Hey, this thing is neat!" Will it need to reference anothe deedbot submission or does the patch have to come after our statment in the clearsigned message?

22:26:13 jurov: you can just submit both at once

22:26:29 jurov: or otherwise suggest to deedbot they're related

22:26:54 ascii_field: throw message prior to the first 'diff ....' in the ,patch

22:27:08 ascii_field: but for the record i think this 'cram all in one file' thing is braindamaged.

22:27:41 mod6: im not ciked about that either.

22:27:54 ascii_field: braindamaged and entirely unnecessary.

22:28:16 ascii_field: throw hashes in deedbot, sure. or even uuencodes. but to make it a canonical repository of anything else, is a microscope-hammer.

22:28:25 ascii_field: or perhaps more of a hammer-microscope.

22:30:06 jurov: having an option to tell deedbot "present these together on one page" should suffice

22:31:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @ 0.00052119 = 29.786 BTC [-] {4}

22:31:59 mod6: but then you could just have detached sigs?

22:32:00 scoopbot_revived: Pity the lil' goldbuggers. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/05/pity-the-lil-goldbuggers/

22:32:33 mod6: that would be the way to do it as I said earlier. but not sure if that's really feasable.

22:33:54 mod6: !up ascii_field

22:34:03 ascii_field: detached sigs are the way to go, imho.

22:34:10 ascii_field: esp since >1 person can sign a patch

22:34:21 ascii_field: there is not a 1:1 mapping between sigs & patches

22:34:44 ascii_field: storing the same text >1 time is retarded

22:35:04 ascii_field: dealing with mutilations - likewise

22:35:26 mod6: well and probably error prone if he/she has to cut the upper text out just to get down to "bare" patch to re-clearsign and submit to deedbot... could miss line, something bad.

22:35:30 mod6: etc

22:35:32 ascii_field: aha.

22:35:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.0005516 = 22.1743 BTC [+] {3}

22:37:24 ascii_field: http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/detail/government-ruins-the-dishwasher-again << lol (via pete_dushenski)

22:37:27 assbot: Government Ruins the Dishwasher (Again) : Anything Peaceful : Foundation for Economic Education ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqt8UN )

22:39:05 ascii_field: 'Welcome to regulated America, where once fabulous consumer inventions like refrigerators, freezers, washing machines, and dishwashers have been reduced to a barely functioning state. The reasons are always the same: 1) phosphorous-free detergent, 2) a fetish with saving water, 3) weaker motors that use less electricity, 4) more tepid water due to low default settings on hot water heaters, and 5) reduced water pressure in

22:39:05 ascii_field: general.'

22:39:53 ascii_field: 'If the regulators really do get their way, functioning dishwashers could become like high-flow toilets: contraband to be snuck across borders and sold at a high black market prices.'

22:40:05 jurov: same in eu. can't find washmachine with <2 hour cycle anymore cuz "saves water and electricity"

22:40:16 ascii_field: i can confirm, ~proper~ toilets have been rare and collectible in usaschwitz, since '90s

22:41:28 ascii_field: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html << unrelated l0l

22:41:31 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IqtE5i )

22:41:47 ascii_field: 'In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.'

22:44:13 ascii_field: https://archive.is/EOetK

22:44:14 assbot: In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqu4IO )

22:44:18 danielpbarron: heh, the locals are food in the "circle of life"

22:45:14 ascii_field: http://fraudsters.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same << obligatory

22:45:15 assbot: Peripateticists, kinda, except girls not boys, bare cunt instead of toga and walking around the house not the garden, but otherwise exactly the same. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqucbd )

22:51:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.0005186 = 14.2096 BTC [-] {4}

22:52:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102129 @ 0.00054998 = 56.1689 BTC [+] {4}

22:53:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146871 @ 0.00055312 = 81.2373 BTC [+] {5}

23:00:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7971 @ 0.00051829 = 4.1313 BTC [-]

23:16:22 Adlai: oh look, it's shitpost o'clock: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2014#953986

23:16:22 assbot: Logged on 15-12-2014 23:14:04; assbot: The MPEx Shuffle - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBYQL8 )

23:16:24 Adlai: goes well with music

23:18:46 mircea_popescu: jurov ie, like being in procust's bed, crushed by a giant to fit.

23:19:00 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-08-2015#1224601 << https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/activity

23:19:00 assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 21:50:14; ascii_field: danielpbarron: he was a relatively early 'computer sucks and must be rebuilt' person. sadly, i've no idea what he is up to these days.

23:19:01 assbot: asdf / asdf | GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1UpfF7i )

23:19:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform [...] microhammer << was just an early suggestion, no one's married to it.

23:36:21 mircea_popescu: to celebrate new fraudsters header, i give you... http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/letscallhershm.jpg

23:36:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5Vbxr )

23:37:54 shinohai: Bravissimo

23:46:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70018 @ 0.00053621 = 37.5444 BTC [+] {2}

23:47:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22282 @ 0.00053924 = 12.0153 BTC [+]

23:51:06 asciilifeform: dulap ~STILL~ wedged

23:51:19 asciilifeform: 'getinfo' call i made this morning ~STILL~ waiting

23:51:39 asciilifeform: disconnecting node 82.130.102.211:58774

23:51:39 asciilifeform: accepted connection 103.1.71.45:50543

23:51:39 asciilifeform: socket closed

23:51:39 asciilifeform: disconnecting node 103.1.71.45:50543

23:51:39 asciilifeform: ...

23:51:41 asciilifeform: etc

23:52:18 asciilifeform: other nodes - normal

23:53:07 shinohai: I still have 0 connections on both my nodes

23:53:10 asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0

23:53:13 asciilifeform: motherfuckers

23:53:29 asciilifeform: guess this means i'ma have to set up vpn between the nodez

23:53:45 asciilifeform: but this is not enough, will need the hard-fuckyou-never-disconnect-from-nobles patch

23:54:18 shinohai: O.o

23:55:46 asciilifeform: think of it this way: zoolag and incitatus were plugged into dulap with -addnode. but this was not enough

23:56:26 trinque: needs something akin to connect but with multiple, right?

23:56:38 asciilifeform: -connect takes multiples

23:56:51 asciilifeform: but is RETARDED in that it creates a drone node that can't be connected to by anyone.

23:56:56 shinohai: I was about to say ... ive been using -connect only for weeks

23:57:12 shinohai: which defeats the purpose

23:57:35 asciilifeform: confirmed, neither zoolag nor incitatus is presently connected to dulap

23:57:40 asciilifeform: this should not be a thing.

23:57:51 asciilifeform: connect or fucking die.

23:58:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164100 @ 0.00055226 = 90.6259 BTC [+] {8}

23:58:35 asciilifeform: i was loathe to implement hardcoded noble-peer by ip, because hitler can put whatever he wants at that ip, from the perspective of my box

23:58:38 asciilifeform: (mitm)

23:59:10 asciilifeform: for now it'll have to be hardcoded to port on localhost, pumped through ssh tunnel to remote host, where same.

23:59:30 trinque: asciilifeform: ah right

23:59:35 trinque: is this just stupid behavior entirely re: connect?

23:59:37 trinque: seems so

23:59:45 asciilifeform: trinque: i don't have ANYTHING -connect'ed

23:59:46 trinque: should be separate concerns entirely

23:59:52 asciilifeform: this concerns all modes.