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Transcript for 05-11-2015, 1613 lines:

00:00:15 BingoBoingo: Gerland I thought wasn't florida, but Shrem had a florida dude

00:00:28 asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2014/12/judge-rejects-florida-mans-bid-to-dismiss-case << this one, i think

00:00:29 assbot: Judge Rejects Florida Man's Bid to Dismiss Case | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMllFU )

00:01:27 *: mircea_popescu shrug

00:01:32 mircea_popescu: typical "do not live in the us" fodder.

00:01:59 asciilifeform: no shortage of this, mircea_popescu

00:02:00 mircea_popescu: could get "caught" in a "sting" for selling a used fridge for 525 dollars

00:02:07 asciilifeform: i fully expect to.

00:03:04 mircea_popescu: supermarkets here want to see id for cash payments over ~100 dollars. everyone else pays you a discount because well, they don't actually report/pay the tax.

00:03:24 asciilifeform: wai wat

00:03:25 mircea_popescu: incomprehensibly, a few people still use the supermarkets.

00:03:25 asciilifeform: where?!

00:03:30 asciilifeform: in ar ?

00:03:34 mircea_popescu: everywhere ? yeah.

00:03:39 asciilifeform: l0l!!

00:03:46 asciilifeform: turns out usa is 'land of ze phreeedom'

00:03:51 asciilifeform: no id for cash.

00:03:55 asciilifeform: spend a whole sack.

00:04:20 asciilifeform: (just don't be found with it at traffic stop)

00:04:24 mircea_popescu: i love it, really. it's basically a tax on supermarkets.

00:04:57 mircea_popescu: (but ftr, china is land of the freedom. they actually and specifically do not do any of the aml bs.)

00:05:23 asciilifeform: let's try a phun experiment:

00:05:27 asciilifeform: ;;google m_debug gpg never worked

00:05:28 gribble: Using the GNU Privacy Guard: GPG Configuration Options - GnuPG: https://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gnupg/GPG-Configuration-Options.html; gpg manpage - GnuPG: https://www.gnupg.org/gph/de/manual/r1023.html; Using the GNU Privacy Guard: GPG Esoteric Options - GnuPG: https://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gnupg/GPG-Esoteric-Options.html

00:05:36 mircea_popescu: here's a tidbit : all "named" banks actually operate under license, separately. because the chinese will strangle you if you actually send info over.

00:05:45 asciilifeform: hm. from my ip it ends in on log.b-a

00:05:47 mircea_popescu: and so the westerners are too petrified by the double whammy, and can't operate themselves.

00:06:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i see what gribble sees.

00:06:29 asciilifeform: unsurprise.

00:07:04 *: asciilifeform collected five versions of gpg, not in one is the thing actually implemented

00:07:35 asciilifeform: ergo the last time anyone could have easily tested the allocator is - at the very latest - 1997

00:07:42 asciilifeform: supposing it were ever tested

00:08:08 asciilifeform: and (and i could go on and on) the thing is implemented in a profoundly braindamaged way

00:08:32 asciilifeform: as a kind of reimplementation of malloc that... uses malloc internally for the segments !

00:08:53 asciilifeform: how hard would it have been to allot a static buffer at warmup ?!!!!!

00:09:20 asciilifeform: how easy it would have been to bitwalk it (like the braindead 'secmem' thing in gpg insists on doing PER SEGMENT !!?!!!)

00:09:23 mircea_popescu: you're not trying to argue that gpg is to be replaced are you ?

00:09:35 asciilifeform: i'm trying to salvage what is salvageable.

00:09:48 asciilifeform: and the answer turns out to be 'precious little'

00:09:53 mircea_popescu: aite. nothing wrong with putting the many warts in the log, either

00:09:58 mircea_popescu: just, you sound so indignantly surprised.

00:10:19 asciilifeform: i cannot help but be surprised when i encounter, in the old words of ben_vulpes, 'clown cars glued to a spinning ceiling'

00:11:02 asciilifeform: someone worked astonishingly hard to make this thing a nearly-incomprehensible morass.

00:12:59 asciilifeform: incidentally - there is a very convenient 1-byte flag, that, if 'poked', will instantly cause gpg to use ordinary (paged) memory.

00:13:35 asciilifeform: this is AT RUNTIME

00:13:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316085 << not so.

00:13:36 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 19:30:55; asciilifeform: incidentally hardware raid utterly annihilates (if used correctly - that is, for striping rather than mirroring) all known and unknown 'hdd firmware diddles'

00:13:44 mircea_popescu: people tend to use the same exact hdd in raid

00:14:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and how is one to conspire with the others ?

00:14:16 asciilifeform: if each holds a reed-solomon stripe

00:14:22 asciilifeform: let's say there are 4 of'em.

00:14:41 mircea_popescu: i suppose i should have said "not necessarily"

00:14:50 asciilifeform: which is why i said 'when used correctly'

00:14:55 mircea_popescu: aha. yea.

00:15:48 asciilifeform: but yes, if the disks 'know' (somehow) that you have a raid-5 of n disks, using a particular controller, they could, e.g., 'agree' to return a patched boot sector.

00:16:10 asciilifeform: but they must know without fail. otherwise the offending disk gets thrown out.

00:16:24 mircea_popescu: not like this doesn't happen

00:16:33 mircea_popescu: think about it.,.. well, i dunno how much experience you have with it, but

00:16:50 mircea_popescu: "fail new disk" error rate seems to be 5 to 10x higher in raid setups than in solo setups.

00:16:52 mircea_popescu: .... why ?

00:17:10 asciilifeform: because a solo will happily carry on with a rotten disk ?

00:17:14 asciilifeform: how's he to know

00:17:27 asciilifeform: a solo disk doesn't get thrown out, typically, until it begins to smoke

00:17:33 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

00:18:06 asciilifeform: raid also tends to be used by folks who run boxes 24/7, and hot

00:18:12 asciilifeform: which brings out the duds.

00:18:53 asciilifeform: another thing is that the drives usually share power rail and one can cascade-kill the rest

00:18:55 shinohai: see bitcointalk going down every 2 weeks for an example of shitty raid configs.

00:19:05 asciilifeform: (it is an inductive load, thinkaboutit)

00:19:31 mircea_popescu: says Hansjoerg Mueller of the Alternative for Germany party.

00:19:33 mircea_popescu: ahahah.\

00:20:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform inductive ? not for ssds, no ?

00:20:12 asciilifeform: no.

00:20:21 asciilifeform: mechanicals.

00:20:33 asciilifeform: ssds are, as a general rule, made of old toilet paper, however.

00:20:36 asciilifeform: (or may as well be)

00:21:42 BingoBoingo: for the cockroachologists: "The Patriots tight end claimed in a recent published memoir -- which he totally wrote all by himself -- that he has yet to touch one dime of his signing bonus or NFL contract money and that everything he has been spending has come from endorsements." http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/156348992/rob-gronkowski-money-advice-gronkonomics

00:21:43 assbot: Rob Gronkowski offers financial tips ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMn4v0 )

00:22:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316103 << code to properly handle the republic's own nodes would be a good move forward.

00:22:07 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 20:13:17; trinque: two things there: one I think I will begin looking into the connect vs addnode tangle this weekend, as it's affecting the proper functioning of the deedbot-

00:22:21 mircea_popescu: i think you probably recall the design discussions for this ?

00:22:51 asciilifeform: the most basic thing would be to permit a static nodelist.

00:22:58 asciilifeform: (snarfed up at warmup)

00:23:16 asciilifeform: with the selector respecting ordering.

00:23:26 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

00:23:31 gribble: Current Blocks: 382088 | Current Difficulty: 6.225398244976082E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 383039 | Next Difficulty In: 951 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 1 hour, 22 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

00:23:44 mircea_popescu: i'm up to date, 105 connections.

00:23:59 mircea_popescu: a ton of orphan blasting, looking through the logs, but they don't actually do anything to me.

00:24:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316104 << sadly, no.

00:24:50 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 20:13:41; trinque: and two, I would like to move the hosting of the thing off AWS if anyone can recommend a friendlier host

00:25:13 mircea_popescu: finding a solution to the hosting problem, a ~correct~ solution is actually higher priority than anything else atm.

00:25:16 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316307 it was drafted and submitted to mpex and havelock, that did not work out, so we just coasted on.

00:25:16 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 23:46:19; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316029 <<< i have a faint recollection of the thing being in this "we'll draft it" position before and magically not getting drafted.

00:25:35 mircea_popescu: but pretty much the only thing western kids wanna do is derp with webdev ; and the eastern kids wanna polish the kalash.

00:25:40 asciilifeform: btw bucephalus up for 44 days contiguous

00:25:41 mircea_popescu: nobody wants to do anything useful.

00:25:43 asciilifeform: 46 conns

00:26:08 *: asciilifeform wants useful but there is only one of him

00:26:26 mircea_popescu: eh dun take it personally, i'm talking of everyone else.

00:26:29 asciilifeform: l0l

00:26:31 mircea_popescu: "if you don't read it - it's for you"

00:26:46 *: asciilifeform mildly surprised that bucephalus has not exhausted memory quite yet

00:27:03 asciilifeform: but it is very close.

00:28:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316132 << mno.

00:28:28 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 21:05:09; funkenstein_: trinque: I don't know who they are but i have had some luck with bitcoincloud.eu vps

00:28:29 asciilifeform: b. has 4G of addressable ram. it is approx. the size of a hardcover book, and lives in a locked cage.

00:28:46 mircea_popescu: derpy resellers are right out. machines in natoland are right out. derps unable/unwilling to wot are right out. etc.

00:29:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cage where ?

00:29:28 asciilifeform: usa.

00:29:48 asciilifeform: in a run-down part of town. office, not datacentre.

00:30:01 mircea_popescu: mk

00:30:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316137 << MOOOO

00:30:09 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 21:14:52; mike_c: I am not understanding this romanian mess.. what the hell does some fire in a club have to do with the PM

00:30:16 asciilifeform: whole thing services by ancient 10mb link

00:30:20 asciilifeform: *serviced

00:31:39 mircea_popescu: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 << certainly. this is how stupid women go for attention, ever since 6th grade.

00:31:42 assbot: From kafkatrap to honeytrap ... ( http://bit.ly/1ktx7KJ )

00:31:52 mircea_popescu: a society that doesn't bitchslap them opens itself to this sort of gunkification.

00:33:24 mircea_popescu: a very simple solution is, "never fuck newbies without at least one slavegirl participating"

00:33:35 mircea_popescu: but i can foresee alf going "broomstick" at me.

00:33:52 mircea_popescu: yet it's not my fault the models you all learned as children are constructed to serve your society, not your own needs and interests.

00:34:02 mircea_popescu: learn better models or drone on, whatevs.

00:34:12 asciilifeform: better model often asks one to die

00:34:17 BingoBoingo: Nah, makes perfect sense you gotta bring your own orgy to the one night stand

00:34:18 mircea_popescu: always.

00:34:23 asciilifeform: because - elementarily - not room for many mircea_popescu on one planet.

00:34:39 mircea_popescu: better model; always asks current ego to die because current ego is a piece of shit.

00:35:14 asciilifeform: !s chicken also wants

00:35:15 assbot: 3 results for 'chicken also wants' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chicken+also+wants

00:35:42 asciilifeform: http://www.ruthenia.ru/folklore/neckludov19.htm

00:35:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMo1mS )

00:35:45 asciilifeform: ^ canonical.

00:35:53 mircea_popescu: btw does that carry any petuk subtext ?

00:36:00 asciilifeform: quite possibly.

00:36:41 asciilifeform: 'Цыпленок тоже хочет жить.'

00:37:14 asciilifeform: http://a-pesni.org/dvor/cyplenok.php << moar history

00:37:15 assbot: Неизв. авторы - Цыпленок жареный (с нотами и видео) ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMo4PI )

00:38:18 asciilifeform: specifically 'образ "цыпленка пареного" как символ обывателя, который "просто хочет жить"' >> the image of a steamed chicken as a symbol of a jwz who 'only wants to live'

00:39:08 *: mircea_popescu is sadly too busy to pursue this folklore angle.

00:39:41 *: asciilifeform leaves it in the logz for the idlerz

00:39:59 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHQDpGv19kM

00:40:00 assbot: Аркадий Северный Цыпленок жареный - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMog1e )

00:40:26 asciilifeform: ^ prison version

00:41:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316143 << this stupidity is perhaps the finest exercise in "how to fuck up women under the guise of protecting their rights".

00:41:02 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 21:19:42; asciilifeform: 'This is SOP for STEM/Biz profs, too. Never be alone with female students. Never mentor them. Never supervise a graduate thesis. A bad review/grade turns into a sexual harassment claim far too easily.'

00:41:11 mircea_popescu: who suffers ? the middling comnpetent female.

00:41:21 asciilifeform: hey the chicken just wants to live

00:41:23 mircea_popescu: which is EXACTLY the sort the female-politics niggers HATE to see

00:41:33 asciilifeform: or what, you think a prof can afford to defend himself ?

00:41:38 mircea_popescu: if all females were she-rakims their life would be so smooth.

00:42:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't mind in the slightest - more flesh for me.

00:42:08 mircea_popescu: to pick among.

00:42:50 asciilifeform: i thought mircea_popescu considered most of said flesh far too contaminated for any practical use

00:43:14 mircea_popescu: depends how determined & obedient.

00:43:47 mircea_popescu: it is, contrary (to whose surprise ?) to what the derps try to tell them, pretty much the only important characteristic.

00:44:10 mircea_popescu: i can teach constitutional law to a rodent that's obedient and determined, enough of it at any rate to surpass the present mulatto in chief.

00:44:24 asciilifeform: eh that last one's not so hard

00:44:36 mircea_popescu: nevertheless.

00:51:10 mircea_popescu: lol is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1315827 <--> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316197 supposed to be like, trolling or something ?

00:51:10 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 17:05:49; mircea_popescu: are we broke yet ?

00:51:10 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 23:11:00; imposter: r0kit are we rich yet?

00:55:29 mircea_popescu: "How long would it take for Toyota to start living up to these accusations in earnest? And why should it not do so? What is to be gained from corporate sainthood?" << "De ce te uiti de parca ti-am furat ceva. Daca tot te uiti asa, mai bine ti-as fura."

00:55:47 mircea_popescu: falsely complain of rape ? get raped. might as well.

00:55:59 mircea_popescu: what exactly does one have to gain by NOT doing it ?

00:56:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in english they say 'may as well hang for a sheep as for a lamb'

00:56:13 mircea_popescu: not the same sentiment.

00:56:28 mircea_popescu: i think maybe the white rapper guy had some verse to the point

00:56:32 mircea_popescu: my memory fails me

00:56:41 pete_dushenski: more of a double jeopardy

00:57:02 pete_dushenski: white rapper = eminem ?

00:57:11 mircea_popescu: aha

00:59:23 BingoBoingo: white rapper = Little Debbie?

00:59:34 mircea_popescu: (the original, ie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZrgcSQRN0U says "why do you look at me as if i stole from you ? if you're gonna do that, i might as well...)

00:59:35 assbot: B.U.G. Mafia - Cuvinte Grele (feat. Puya, Luchian, Maximilian, Pacha Man & ViLLy) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nf0rvQ )

01:00:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but entertain me, for my own education, on a purely business matter of some public interest.

01:00:46 asciilifeform: shoot

01:01:17 mircea_popescu: i could spend money to have eulora interface translated into some sort of an iapp. it'd prolly work, more or less. i... aren't bothering myself with actually doing this.

01:01:29 mircea_popescu: do you not count it as an example of developer eschewing the monopoly ? and to apple's detriment ?

01:01:33 asciilifeform: it'd have to be sideloaded

01:01:37 mircea_popescu: sure, they got a monopoly on all the candy crush. so ?

01:01:41 mircea_popescu: hm ?

01:01:48 mircea_popescu: what is "sideloaded" ?

01:01:57 asciilifeform: run solely on cracked machines

01:02:00 mircea_popescu: why ?

01:02:22 asciilifeform: apple demands that any transfer of value of whatever kind inside an ipnohe proggy happen using their system

01:02:25 asciilifeform: with their vig taken.

01:02:30 mircea_popescu: there is no "transfer of value" within eulora

01:02:35 asciilifeform: ergo no bitcoinatronic apps period.

01:02:36 mircea_popescu: 100% free app, i charge for nothing.

01:02:55 mircea_popescu: same thing as with steam : i would not even accept money from them.

01:02:56 asciilifeform: aha but the first time anyone thinks of using it to move coin, it gets pulled.

01:03:03 mircea_popescu: because how ?

01:03:14 mircea_popescu: they're gonna what, police users ?

01:03:24 asciilifeform: as a non-player, am i mistaken that one can move btc using eulora .. ?

01:03:28 mircea_popescu: but forget this nonsense, focus on the business interest.

01:03:39 mircea_popescu: so : there is a thing. it doesn't go there. to their detriment. what of the monopoly ?

01:03:48 mircea_popescu: or you're proposing that I need ~them~ or something ?

01:04:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, very apparently, does not need the kolhoz, no.

01:04:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can move btc using email, too. what of it ? your problem.

01:04:13 mircea_popescu: but the point is important, in light of your article.

01:04:48 asciilifeform: when i wrote that piece, there was a very temporary phenomenon where the small-time independent programmer appeared to be a thing again

01:04:55 asciilifeform: like in the mid '90s 'shareware scene'

01:05:01 mircea_popescu: so s.mg is excepted because it's... big ?

01:05:11 asciilifeform: because it doesn't actually need anything from anyone.

01:05:19 mircea_popescu: but this is true of all success, ever.

01:05:29 mircea_popescu: ipad didn't get any fortress-whatever that's called action either.

01:05:37 asciilifeform: i wasn't speaking of success, but of a living wage in the leprosorium.

01:05:44 asciilifeform: s.mg does not live in the leprosorium.

01:05:47 mircea_popescu: in fact, and i had this deeply reviewed, ipad is an approximation of "Flash games"/arcade website, which was always a bit player.

01:05:58 mircea_popescu: they have like... 3 types of games, and rehashed ad nauseam.

01:06:03 mircea_popescu: want me to describe ?

01:06:17 asciilifeform: today - yes. it transitioned to the spamatronic cargo cult phase

01:06:20 mircea_popescu: imo they failed unconscionably at this.

01:06:23 asciilifeform: where everything is an imitation of a cheap imitation.

01:06:23 mircea_popescu: right.

01:06:32 mircea_popescu: and they HAD, 5 years ago, a thing.

01:06:37 asciilifeform: had, aha.

01:06:44 mircea_popescu: missed by a mile, they weren't even shooting towards it.

01:06:49 asciilifeform: today 'steam' appears to be doing the temporary 'having' of that thing

01:06:53 mircea_popescu: right.

01:06:56 asciilifeform: tomorrow it'll be another, similar.

01:07:02 mircea_popescu: and i'm marginally consdiering them (iirc was in the logs), but also kind-of meh.

01:07:08 asciilifeform: it's a kolhoz

01:07:18 asciilifeform: all kolhoz follow the same dynamic, afaik.

01:07:18 mircea_popescu: and the reason is, apparently, that steam doesn't have the wisdom to have expert packagers out there looking for work.

01:07:25 mircea_popescu: which is what i/bezos would have done as #1 thing to do.

01:07:51 mircea_popescu: it's very strange how stupid perpetuates itself in that market, in spite of better exampled extant, and well publicised.

01:07:56 asciilifeform: at any rate, i (and $maxint others) will port $whateverthefuckyouwant to, e.g., cray II. for a fee.

01:08:09 mircea_popescu: it's almost like the dating market : some people are decent at picking up c hicks, and the losers watch them do it and... still suck.

01:08:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would honestly think it's a waste of your time to do this ?

01:08:49 asciilifeform: you know that's how i waste most of it, right ?

01:08:52 mircea_popescu: not that it's not open to folk wanting the work and +wot centrality, but hey.

01:08:53 asciilifeform: doing wurk to make rentz.

01:09:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, that may be, but i do not waste most of my money downshifting people. in general i waste it upshifting people.

01:09:41 mircea_popescu: hence "pay for your tits" schemes etc.

01:09:50 mircea_popescu: course... people are talented at resisting it, but hey :D

01:14:11 mircea_popescu: "You want a non-tyrannical Apple? Rather than striving to weaken Apple so that it can be devoured by its brawny-yet-mindless competitors, do something constructive. Experiment with GUIs which don?t trace their descent to Xerox PARC. Forever renounce the idiotic practice of copying Microsoft, that cheap imitation of a cheap imitation. If you are creative, create. Otherwise, strive to find a strong-willed Jobs fig

01:14:11 mircea_popescu: ure gifted with good taste, and become his loyal servant."

01:14:14 mircea_popescu: wow, this is 2010 too ?!

01:14:17 BingoBoingo: !s five words

01:14:17 assbot: 8 results for 'five words' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=five+words

01:14:17 asciilifeform: aha

01:16:18 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo which one ?

01:16:39 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The hang with words one. Finally doing the Severance/sheriff piece

01:16:49 BingoBoingo: Cardinal Richelieu

01:17:13 mircea_popescu: ah right

01:19:02 trinque: bitcoind trashing the debug.log each time has got to go

01:19:23 mircea_popescu: word.

01:19:31 mircea_popescu: poor trinque fell into a soup.

01:19:36 trinque: it's good for a guy

01:19:49 asciilifeform: trinque: there was a patch. iirc it didn't make it in for some trivial reason

01:19:55 trinque: I'll have a taste of some low-hanging fruit this weekend

01:23:41 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316402 <--> http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=304

01:23:41 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 00:10:19; asciilifeform: i cannot help but be surprised when i encounter, in the old words of ben_vulpes, 'clown cars glued to a spinning ceiling'

01:23:41 assbot: #bitcoin-assets bash ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nf1EmX )

01:23:51 pete_dushenski: twas ol' decimation ftr

01:24:14 asciilifeform: was, wasn't it.

01:29:32 pete_dushenski: http://www.nhregister.com/government-and-politics/20151101/cops-to-grab-unlocked-stuff-from-cars-in-east-rock-area-x2014-for-safekeeping << one for BingoBoingo

01:29:33 assbot: Cops to grab unlocked stuff from cars in East Rock area — for safekeeping ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nf1Xy0 )

01:29:57 BingoBoingo: lol sure you don't want it pete_dushenski

01:30:25 trinque: jurov: pls switch disgests on the mailing list to off for me; I cannot

01:30:30 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1315736 << the way to do it is gpg --homedir /tmp/dirthatyoumadefortheoccasion << got it. will work on this tonight.

01:30:30 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 13:43:59; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> that's not so good. <+asciilifeform> which is not a thing that you want. << Ah, ok. Thanks for looking at it. Instead of using ~/.gnupg, would it be alright to create a ~/.gpgtmp upon startup and rm ~/.gpgtmp when complete?

01:30:39 trinque: *digests

01:30:52 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you're the u.s. legal/policing expert 'round these parts :)

01:31:22 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Alright

01:31:27 pete_dushenski: security and finance are my qntra fortes

01:33:34 BingoBoingo: Sometimes it can help to branch out

01:34:41 deedbot-: [Qntra] Man Convicted as Serial Killer Over Circumstantial Evidence - http://qntra.net/2015/11/man-convicted-as-serial-killer-over-circumstantial-evidence/

01:35:32 jurov: trinque you should be set

01:36:52 trinque: jurov: :) ty

01:37:21 mircea_popescu: the circumserial killer.

01:37:38 asciilifeform: how come nobody says 'parallel killer'

01:39:42 pete_dushenski: not everyone's shiva

01:40:23 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316544 << the back-and-forth over gpg registration would be entertaining, at least

01:40:23 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 01:02:00; mircea_popescu: why ?

01:41:02 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> how come nobody says 'parallel killer' << Like McVeigh?

01:41:29 trinque: the nazis had quite the multiprocessing going for a time

01:42:35 pete_dushenski: mao too

01:47:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for my curiosity, does your outfit hire ?

01:49:59 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: spiffy article. but fails to mention that the writings of s. have not (afaik - has anyone tried hard?) been seen by the public; nor is it publicly known how and where usg obtained them (it is known, iirc, that they were NOT public)

01:50:21 asciilifeform: by all indications, they jailed the crippled man and ransacked his home.

01:50:34 asciilifeform: where they found some schizo notebook of his

01:50:55 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aha, hinted but yes a point for the comments!

01:50:59 mircea_popescu: which we know was "of his" because washington post would never lie.

01:51:00 asciilifeform: and stitched it into something for the jury.

01:51:01 asciilifeform: aha.

01:51:03 asciilifeform: 'his.'

01:51:36 asciilifeform: the whole thing smells as strongly as anyone might wish, of usg pushing the bounds of the possible.

01:52:20 BingoBoingo: Definitely for the comments, because I was not thinking of this part

01:52:44 asciilifeform: this, in short, is why i found the case interesting to begin with...

01:53:04 asciilifeform: in ru we say the case was 'stitched together'

01:53:15 asciilifeform: or 'stitched with white thread'

01:53:35 mircea_popescu: "|Ulanoff completely fails to examine this "oh yeah, we suck in some areas claim". Why? The guy's a "car reporter". No more, no less. If he says negative things about the companies that pay his salary, he gets fired and the publication for whom he works never gets another scoop/lead/exclusive." << BUT WHY ?

01:53:44 mircea_popescu: "because the public doesn't matter." ah, okay.

01:53:45 mircea_popescu: so then...

01:54:09 asciilifeform: (this comes from old notebooks having held together with thread, that turned dark with dirt and age. when pages were inserted or removed surreptitiously, new thread was often used to stitch the thing back)

01:54:19 asciilifeform: hence the application to spurious criminal cases.

01:54:33 asciilifeform: white thread.

01:54:39 BingoBoingo: aha

01:55:32 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'Of course the political assassination theory neglects motive for killing the real estate' -- missing a dash

01:55:39 asciilifeform: killing -- the real estate

01:55:41 asciilifeform: --

01:56:55 BingoBoingo: "Of course the political assassination theory neglects motive for killing the real estate agent instead killing the sheriff." better?

01:57:12 asciilifeform: still can't parse

01:57:36 mircea_popescu: "Apple's fabrication partners appear to be taking the opposite approach, which is to select parts whose tolerance errors cancel each other out." << this is wartime engineering.

01:57:44 mircea_popescu: that's how the nazis were beaten.

01:58:03 mircea_popescu: +-5% mechanical parts and patience.

01:58:08 asciilifeform: it is soviet sop.

01:58:12 BingoBoingo: "Of course the political assassination theory neglects motive for killing the real estate agent instead of killing the sheriff." << better?

01:58:22 asciilifeform: was ~the only~ way to get functioning circuits, for instance.

01:58:33 asciilifeform: (chix with bucketz sorting transistors)

01:58:54 asciilifeform: phun phakt, the reject parts went to... schools

01:58:56 mircea_popescu: i don't recall who had this display of "100 ohm resistors" that measured from 30 to a whopping 1.5k

01:58:59 mircea_popescu: aha

01:59:19 asciilifeform: which is how my brother still doesn't fully believe, in his gut heart, that physics works

01:59:32 asciilifeform: he learned on the 1.5k 100ohm resistors.

01:59:35 mircea_popescu: gutheart lol

02:00:33 asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#654839

02:00:33 assbot: Logged on 02-05-2014 02:36:33; asciilifeform: decimation: for some reason, this reminds me of a tale my consulting partner (physicist, grew up in india, 1970s) told me. students would qualify on instruments that barely worked, but belonged, to, e.g. the great Bose.

02:01:53 mod6: asciilifeform: are you impartial to /tmp instead of ~/gnupgtmp ? I just put in the changes and this is what gpg spit back at me: http://dpaste.com/23A824E.txt

02:01:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMur5G )

02:02:19 asciilifeform: mod6: home dir is prolly the correct approach

02:02:28 asciilifeform: mod6: see if perl doesn't have a built-in notion of temp dirs

02:02:44 mod6: ah, similar to your py implementation? i'll take a look.

02:02:51 asciilifeform: 'v' doesn't deal in secrets, ergo the actual location is unimportant.

02:02:56 mircea_popescu: and in today's milking news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/91c1efcf80578e17d367a6cfc6d97787/tumblr_miljedZhkU1rdbtrjo1_1280.jpg

02:02:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMuuhM )

02:04:42 mod6: at first glance, looks like one needs to "use File::Tempdir", so will veer away from that.

02:07:09 asciilifeform: homedir oughta work, but the trick is that you gotta know that it's one you made, every time

02:07:24 asciilifeform: and not one that was previously lying around, that is now about to have its contents zapped

02:07:38 asciilifeform: in lisp parlance, it has to be a 'gensym'

02:08:13 asciilifeform: -- a unique thing that never was and never will be again.

02:08:20 asciilifeform: (literally)

02:08:24 mircea_popescu: q : wouldn't the right way to do this be, "gen session key" ?

02:08:44 asciilifeform: it would, if there were secretz

02:08:51 mircea_popescu: so what if they aren't ?

02:09:06 mircea_popescu: it does offer a firm guarantee that "always the one you made"

02:09:15 mod6: my thought was to create if it doesn't exist, otherwise die. and delete at the end of execution. however there is a scenario where if for instance a seal exists from a key that is not in the wot and the application exits before main returns.

02:09:39 mircea_popescu: gen memory key, keep it in a file keyed thus, delete on finish.

02:09:39 asciilifeform: create in such a way that creation fails if dir existed. problem solved.

02:09:51 mircea_popescu: you can still be lied to.

02:09:54 asciilifeform: sure.

02:10:06 mircea_popescu: symlinks among others

02:10:36 asciilifeform: and at the end of the day, 'v' is a unix proggy and isn't even a compiled thing, and utterly depends on 1,000,001 things that no one has examined since 1991.

02:10:43 mircea_popescu: true.

02:10:46 mircea_popescu: just a thought.

02:11:11 mod6: i guess i could hash the epoch time and append it to the dir name, store it as a global for "session" key.

02:11:27 mircea_popescu: how's a time dependency help you ?

02:11:32 mircea_popescu: "time" is not your friend.

02:11:51 mod6: just something unique to when executed.

02:12:02 asciilifeform: this kind of thing can only be implemented as a global thing.

02:12:40 mod6: hmm.

02:12:47 mod6: i don't wanna over complicate this to begin with.

02:13:02 asciilifeform: 'fortunately' it can't be done at all on unix.

02:17:37 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/NbOUr5U.jpg

02:17:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GMvF0D )

02:27:32 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

02:27:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 437.84, vol: 107876.68218332 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 425.989, vol: 58789.66874 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 434.2, vol: 283207.14469946 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 415.0, vol: 16.91547596 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 466.847448, vol: 128374.06380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 431.0, vol: 442.62947362 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 396.64464, vol: 774.64764333 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

02:38:08 BingoBoingo: ;;more

02:38:08 gribble: average: 441.223864598

02:44:58 trinque: ShrinkDebugFile() << lol, the autism in this thing

02:45:10 asciilifeform: trinque: how so ?

02:45:31 trinque: that it's a debug log and someone thought well gee if it gets too big better shrink it

02:45:34 trinque: wtf?!

02:45:37 trinque: I'm debugging! leave it!

02:45:57 asciilifeform: trinque: iirc it doesn't shrink, in the classical 0.5.3, if debug flag is on.

02:45:58 trinque: furthermore that it's even the job of the thing to clumsily rotate its own log

02:46:11 asciilifeform: trinque: would you prefer that it depend on a unix log rotator ?

02:46:12 phf: mod6: use File::Temp qw/:mktemp/; $foo = mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXXXXXX"); print $foo."\n"; # => /tmp/foowq51sxd

02:46:16 asciilifeform: can't have it both ways

02:46:21 phf: i'm not sure how more easy can this be

02:46:35 mod6: i dont wanna "use" anything if it can be helped.

02:46:38 asciilifeform: ^

02:46:52 trinque: asciilifeform: yes I would prefer that it only do one thing, but you are correct that it calls this only if !fDebug

02:46:59 phf: mod6: file::temp is perl stock

02:47:53 phf: mkdtemp is a canonical way of creating a temporary directory on unix, that'll also ensure a) no collisions b) proper permissions, i.e. 700

02:49:36 trinque: asciilifeform: one might rotate a production log, fine

02:49:45 trinque: the rotation was put in the debug log; that is mega-autism

02:50:03 trinque: and not even rotation, goofy head-trimming

02:50:19 asciilifeform: i must confess that i disagree. the thing runs, as it might, self-contained, to the extent practical.

02:50:30 asciilifeform: if you recall, the original wasn't even assured of running on a unix

02:50:35 asciilifeform: where a log autorotator can be had

02:50:56 trinque: if it were the ADA version or even one written with as few deps as possible, I'd grant you're right

02:51:00 trinque: this is *not* standalone at all

02:51:29 asciilifeform: thing was written for winblowz, in its heart, by a winblowz programmer, this is beyond dispute.

02:53:21 trinque: how does the fact that it was written for windows argue for the retardation staying

02:53:52 asciilifeform: staying ?

02:54:26 asciilifeform: on a machine like pogo it does not make sense to produce the log at all

02:55:00 asciilifeform: in any form.

02:57:38 asciilifeform: trinque: this is reminiscent of the thread concerining upnp.

02:57:42 asciilifeform: *concerning

02:58:28 asciilifeform: we threw it out, because it is really a harmful thing, but later ended up with an impression that it will have to be - in a separate process, yes - put back, if pogo is to be deployed to civilian households

02:59:34 trinque: I am commenting on the idiocy of a thing *ever* taking it upon itself to erase the history of its own operation

02:59:54 asciilifeform: trinque: you don't ever flush your toilet ?

02:59:57 trinque: when it is sitting on a system where the user can decide to do this if he chooses

03:00:13 trinque: no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves....

03:00:15 asciilifeform: there is no human user on, e.g., pogo.

03:00:23 asciilifeform: it is poured into cement.

03:00:25 asciilifeform: in orbit

03:01:03 asciilifeform: yet it still makes sense to have a small 'crash recorder' sort of log, for when it shits itself.

03:01:12 asciilifeform: how do you propose to do this ?

03:01:30 asciilifeform: unrelatedly,

03:01:35 asciilifeform: but this is pure gold,

03:01:37 asciilifeform: esp for mircea_popescu:

03:01:40 asciilifeform: #ifdef M_GUARD

03:01:40 asciilifeform: if( a ) {

03:01:40 asciilifeform: #error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work"

03:01:48 asciilifeform: ^^^^^^^^^ guess from where ^^^^^^^^^

03:03:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you do know that aircraft crash boxes traditionally ran the tape in a loop, right ?

03:03:49 asciilifeform: because guess what, finite tape fits in box.

03:04:08 asciilifeform: and it was not deemed acceptable for the box to ever not be recording.

03:04:09 trinque: this log file is a small fraction of the size of the blockchain which is also constantly being written

03:04:24 asciilifeform: no

03:04:28 asciilifeform: think about it

03:05:00 asciilifeform: a) a wedged node still pisses into the log b) log contains tx ids, many of which correspond to nothing that ends up in the blocks

03:05:27 trinque: I was thinking of a lower log level than whatever I'd expect from "debug" but in that case yes

03:05:27 asciilifeform: i have machines here where the size of the log approaches the size of the blockchain.

03:15:57 trinque: asciilifeform: why not have the thing barf everything to stdout and stderr and let whatever's out there do with it what it pleases; opposed to unix-y small proggies that do one thing here?

03:16:02 phf: mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/158520, but there are some other things to keep in mind,

03:16:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hsnu4e )

03:16:03 phf: e.g. http://search.cpan.org/~dagolden/File-Temp-0.2304/lib/File/Temp.pm#safe_level (particularly if you read the paragraph under HIGH)

03:16:50 asciilifeform: trinque: and when it runs daemonized ?

03:17:16 trinque: runit runs things in precisely this manner, and is the smallest init guy I know

03:17:17 asciilifeform: see, the whole 'unix philosophy' thing would be considerably more interesting if we had a machine where it actually... worked.

03:17:34 asciilifeform: trinque: i don't even know how big it is, but will tell you that it is too big for pogo.

03:17:39 trinque: ....

03:17:46 asciilifeform: because ANYTHING is too big

03:17:54 trinque: there will be no init?

03:18:03 asciilifeform: prolly not.

03:18:11 asciilifeform: (why waste the precious ram on that ??)

03:18:36 trinque: one sec while I go find the ram usage of runit on a similar device

03:18:49 asciilifeform: if it's 8kb that's too much.

03:21:39 asciilifeform: my argument here is not that the behaviour of the classic debug log is a beautiful thing, but that any change to bitcoin that MAKES MANDATORY the presence of so much as an 8kB proggy on the machine, is LETHAL

03:21:41 asciilifeform: to pogo.

03:22:14 phf: should there even be logs on pogo?

03:22:24 asciilifeform: phf: log in the airplane 'black box' sense only.

03:22:25 asciilifeform: if that.

03:22:55 asciilifeform: moreover, since unix has no future, but unfortunately we are stuck with a junkyard of rusting x86 and arm boxes, it makes sense for bitcoin to evolve in the direction of being an os

03:22:57 trinque: bout two orders of magnitude north of that

03:23:01 phf: in that case you'd better truncate it doing run too, because if that pogo doesn't go down, there's no cap on the log

03:23:14 asciilifeform: but it does NOT make sense for it to evolve in the direction of being 'a good unix util'

03:24:39 trinque: this makes sense

03:25:21 asciilifeform: ... not that the thing is in any way close to being pogoizable

03:25:32 mircea_popescu: !up woivis

03:26:10 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

03:26:14 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 445.21, Best ask: 445.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 445.2, 24 hour volume: 285121.27754096, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None

03:26:18 asciilifeform: and it won't be a matter of a few changed lines, either.

03:26:20 mircea_popescu: this is better than daytime dramaz

03:26:21 woivis: thank you mircea

03:26:27 mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?

03:26:41 trinque: init on the same device is taking about 300kb more than runit, as on this thing I have the former starting the latter

03:27:08 asciilifeform: trinque: neither really belongs there.

03:27:19 asciilifeform: in fact, a battlefield bitcoinatron has no business having a conventional 'userland' at all.

03:27:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316733 << we applaud this notion.

03:27:29 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 02:46:35; mod6: i dont wanna "use" anything if it can be helped.

03:27:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then you will love the current thread...

03:28:02 *: asciilifeform brb, food

03:28:04 *: mircea_popescu getting there

03:28:29 *: trinque is curiously googling what init=bitcoind would take

03:29:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316749 << the principle of this is sound. if you're debugging on pogo you've got more pressing problems than the log. such as your psychotherapy appointment.

03:29:17 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 02:54:26; asciilifeform: on a machine like pogo it does not make sense to produce the log at all

03:30:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316757 << lol zing.

03:30:16 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 03:00:13; trinque: no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves....

03:30:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316768 << heh.

03:30:43 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 03:01:40; asciilifeform: #error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work"

03:32:05 mircea_popescu: actually the rotating tape is not such a bad idea. not just for pogo-log, but in general. wild notion, but, asciilifeform how about memory allocator that simply overwrites the beginning ?

03:33:26 phf: system message buffer operates that way (i.e. what you get with dmesg)

03:33:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316780 << i have no idea why reasonable to use.

03:33:32 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 03:16:02; phf: mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/158520, but there are some other things to keep in mind,

03:33:38 mircea_popescu: phf so it does.

03:34:01 mircea_popescu: and for this same exact reason, as alf would say, "cement".

03:34:16 trinque: I suppose given you can fire up networking entirely from within the linux kernel, init=bitcoind may be all that is needed at some point

03:34:26 phf: mircea_popescu: i honestly thought it was a thin wrapper around call to unix mkdtemp, glad i checked

03:34:45 mircea_popescu: trinque the eventual end goal is to have bitcoinix. as alf says, no userland at all. nor really a kernel in the common sense.

03:35:39 mircea_popescu: kinda have a) a nix ; b) a bitcoin and c) an obvious pogo-merge for these two.

03:37:07 phf: apropos this conversation, emacs as init http://informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html, prototyped using "user-mode-linux", http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net something that could be used for bitcoind

03:37:10 assbot: Page Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpLA7E )

03:37:10 assbot: The User-mode Linux Kernel Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpLA7G )

03:37:13 mircea_popescu: back to tape : not to mention that since these these things are virtualized, you could in principle specify how you wish the available mem to be split among the various rotating tapes.

03:50:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: an allocator that knows that it is acceptable to lose some old bits is called a circular buffer and behaves like a looped tape, yes

03:50:14 asciilifeform: e.g., your nic's buffers

03:50:26 asciilifeform: everything on your box that can safely behave this way, pretty much already does.

03:50:36 mircea_popescu: why not mempool ?

03:50:49 asciilifeform: mempool is a great example

03:50:57 asciilifeform: of a mechanism which ought to work this way

03:50:57 mircea_popescu: but not implemented thus currently.

03:51:07 asciilifeform: (see old threads where we beat this to a liquid pulp)

03:51:50 mircea_popescu: apparently not liquid enough. "liquifying - works ; drinking - not yet."

03:52:16 asciilifeform: ^ aha.

03:56:55 trinque: asciilifeform: thinking the kernel's automount mech. for pogo's external disk slot?

03:57:17 asciilifeform: mount at warmup.

03:57:28 asciilifeform: why ever any time else?

03:59:48 *: trinque nods

04:01:24 mircea_popescu: so the fucking web idiots have come up with a novel css hell that chokes my browsers.

04:01:38 mircea_popescu: what the fuck these fucking idiots and theyr css. should be hanged.

04:01:44 asciilifeform: this happens regularly enough.

04:01:46 mircea_popescu: your "formatting" does not work inline, go die in a fire.

04:01:49 liquidassets: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316034 << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no?

04:01:49 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 18:50:13; *: asciilifeform would like input from his WoT re: what is the correct thing to do with obvious usg honeytrapping as described earlier.

04:01:54 trinque: whole thing is a massive sin

04:02:23 mircea_popescu: it has its merits liquidassets

04:02:24 liquidassets: “only the Übermensch will have the strength to fully accept all of his past life, including his failures and misdeeds, and to truly will their eternal return” grepped straight from the logz

04:04:10 liquidassets: anytime you're opened up to liability, the one who documents best seems to win

04:05:16 BingoBoingo: <liquidassets> ... << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no? << Yes, like that time I blogged the FBI visit to my front door

04:05:53 BingoBoingo: For honeydicking, I am less certain the proper course of action

04:10:08 mircea_popescu: pics help.

04:10:17 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 7.47500000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b40

04:14:09 liquidassets: Exactly BingoBoingo except I still have to go back and read more to get the full context

04:16:03 liquidassets: honeydicking <<a bitch by definition

04:17:36 mircea_popescu: 4:1 on trump ? cmon.

04:17:45 mircea_popescu: who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ?

04:18:18 asciilifeform: wat about the chick

04:18:27 mircea_popescu: who ?

04:18:32 mircea_popescu: the republicans also have chicks now ?

04:18:38 asciilifeform: the one that killed hp

04:18:40 trinque: yeah, old CEO of HP

04:18:44 mircea_popescu: ahahahaah right

04:19:06 trinque: bragged about HP's role helping the NSA under her watch, too

04:19:10 mircea_popescu: i wasn't even aware she's still ruinning

04:19:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ? << Doctor Stoner is actually leading now. Rubio appears to be the establishment alternative now that Jeb is dead in the water

04:19:46 BingoBoingo: NEarly all the repubes are still ruining

04:19:49 mircea_popescu: never in history has a nobody been elected before

04:19:53 mircea_popescu: o wait... obama. nm.

04:19:58 asciilifeform: l0l aha

04:20:29 mircea_popescu: i would imagine the republicans understand enough of their small penis issues to not imagine they can pull democrat tricks.

04:20:36 BingoBoingo: Obama, Clinton, Truman...

04:20:46 trinque: Trump and Carson practically fist-bumped on stage in that CNBC "debate"; I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up running together

04:20:48 mircea_popescu: clinton was well known

04:20:53 mircea_popescu: "that guy with the hot wife"

04:20:58 BingoBoingo: Not Bill

04:21:13 BingoBoingo: George Clinton was well known at the time though

04:21:32 mircea_popescu: let's limit this discussion to "after tv"

04:21:58 BingoBoingo: ;;google george clinton

04:21:59 gribble: George Clinton Parliament Funkadelic official website: http://georgeclinton.com/; George Clinton (musician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Clinton_(musician); George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/georgeclintonpfunk/

04:22:08 BingoBoingo: ^ That CLinton was well known

04:22:09 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:23:15 BingoBoingo: But seriously none of the republicans are going to stop before the first primaries because they gotta build their profile in public to become TV hosts

04:23:32 BingoBoingo: It's the way of their people

04:24:04 BingoBoingo: Democrats on the other hand quit well in advance because getting appointed to various offices is the way of their people

04:24:38 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts

04:25:17 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts << Too late BitBet exists

04:28:29 asciilifeform: hey it mostly dropped sport crud

04:29:47 BingoBoingo: Sure, this may too fade

04:31:36 BingoBoingo: !up woivis

04:32:00 trinque: perhaps asciilifeform is waiting for "The USG scam wont see 2019"

04:33:54 BingoBoingo: Mebbe

04:41:17 asciilifeform: i don't personally expect to see 2019.

04:41:20 asciilifeform: so no, won't bet.

04:44:38 BingoBoingo: These years creep up on people

04:45:24 asciilifeform: in other 'news', malloc is very very complicated.

04:45:51 BingoBoingo: fuck yeah

04:46:16 asciilifeform: considerably more so than, e.g., knuth's, garbage collector.

04:49:18 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu finally dug up the sysv6-on-x86 thing. http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1114

04:49:22 assbot: Embedded in Academia : Xv6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po3G8F )

04:49:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:49:37 asciilifeform: turned it up ~by accident~ while looking for entirely unrelated thing.

04:50:21 asciilifeform: 'Xv6 is a rewrite of v6 UNIX in modern C that runs on multicore x86 chips. It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU. It took me a while to see the genius of Xv6, which is that it is simpler than I would have thought a working multicore OS with shell and filesystem could be. For example, it lacks wait queues and ready queues ? in Xv6, both wakeup and scheduling are accomplished by looping over the

04:50:21 asciilifeform: all-process table. Similarly, there?s no malloc() in the kernel, but rather just a page allocator. The pipe implementation copies one byte at a time. Amazingly, even the bootloader is a pleasure to read. Another nice thing about Xv6 is that it comes with a short textbook that explains OS concepts in terms of their implementations in Xv6.'

04:50:21 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

04:54:11 asciilifeform: ^ the animal in the lions book, rewritten for x86.

04:55:16 asciilifeform: robert morris of all people.

04:55:33 asciilifeform: i thought he was dead...

04:57:43 BingoBoingo: Shit, Unix lives again

04:57:58 asciilifeform: if that's living.

04:58:20 asciilifeform: https://github.com/ahorn/xv6 << for those who must read in www browser..

04:58:21 assbot: ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBspXy )

04:59:04 asciilifeform: https://github.com/ahorn/xv6/blob/master/kill.c << example of why lions book was a thing

04:59:05 assbot: xv6/kill.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBstqi )

04:59:27 asciilifeform: https://github.com/ahorn/xv6/blob/master/grep.c

04:59:29 assbot: xv6/grep.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBsuL2 )

04:59:37 asciilifeform: ^ ~100 lines.

05:00:19 asciilifeform: 'cat' is 38 lines.

05:00:27 asciilifeform: isn't it a marvel, what these looked like before the cancer ?

05:01:13 asciilifeform: i wonder if anybody's ported fabrice bellard's tinycc compiler to this.

05:01:20 asciilifeform: because then it's a complete and almost usable os.

05:01:45 asciilifeform: which could handily compile itself in a few mSec on boot.

05:03:12 asciilifeform: adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though.

05:04:01 asciilifeform: ditto drivers for any kind of actual iron beyond the interrupt controller and bare bones ata

05:05:15 asciilifeform: interestingly, multiprocessor is supported.

05:06:34 asciilifeform: reading this thing i - astonishingly - don't feel like i'm chewing on gravel

05:06:45 BingoBoingo: LIVING

05:06:48 asciilifeform: which is what reading, e.g., linux kernel, or gpg, feels like

05:12:31 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency eur

05:12:47 gribble: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 380.387742, vol: 105198.11150770 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 385.119, vol: 828.06894 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 422.675, vol: 122629.81590000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 379.0, vol: 36666.8323811 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 377.0, vol: 744.07905649 | Volume-weighted last average: 399.691877425

05:12:54 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

05:13:04 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.42, vol: 105197.42750770 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 404.829, vol: 59697.13119 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 414.81, vol: 276471.40389639 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 15.52203902 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 459.404, vol: 122609.60230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 409.45669, vol: 439.20838303 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 409.7613, vol: 744.07905649 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

05:13:09 BingoBoingo: ;;more

05:13:09 gribble: average: 423.160688002

05:29:04 BingoBoingo: http://www.ibtimes.com/us-navy-poised-order-new-boeing-fighters-fa-18-super-hornet-jets-could-be-ordered-2168862

05:29:05 assbot: US Navy Poised To Order New Boeing Fighters, F/A-18 Super Hornet Jets Could Be Ordered Soon ... ( http://bit.ly/1kcbejJ )

05:37:16 mircea_popescu: " It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU." o.O

05:37:58 mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?

05:39:31 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though << the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage.

05:40:02 mircea_popescu: "could be ordered soon" wtf news is this

05:50:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316953 << add a network stack, nic driver, disk caching (without which no real time bitcoin), then the unspeakable horror of even the smallest known incarnation of libc...

05:50:16 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 05:37:58; mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?

05:50:20 asciilifeform: and you get linux.

05:50:33 mircea_popescu: why do you need libc again ?

05:50:39 asciilifeform: to build bitcoin ?

05:50:46 mircea_popescu: network stack could actually be purpose built.

05:50:47 mircea_popescu: mno.

05:51:21 asciilifeform: the smallest known tcp stack is that swedish one

05:51:26 asciilifeform: and it's still a mega-turd

05:51:32 mircea_popescu: not what im saying.

05:51:37 asciilifeform: hm?

05:51:45 mircea_popescu: purpose built. it does bitcoin and nothing else.

05:52:01 asciilifeform: bitcoin as presently existing rides on top of tcp.

05:52:05 mircea_popescu: fuck that.

05:52:14 mircea_popescu: it rides on top of qt and bdb, too.

05:52:37 asciilifeform: let's rephrase, it relies on the pipe abstraction

05:52:49 mircea_popescu: and on the boost "abstraction"

05:52:50 asciilifeform: ('can throw bytes from point a to point b and back and they get there in order')

05:52:59 mircea_popescu: these aren't abstractions as much as they are infections.

05:53:45 asciilifeform: anyway i'll be the last to cry for tcp.

05:54:16 mircea_popescu: seems this v6 thing would be a great starting point for a great many things.

05:54:20 mircea_popescu: encrypted conn for one.

05:55:19 asciilifeform: thing is, it only looks sexy because there is nothing sitting on it

05:55:23 asciilifeform: it is sorta like minix1

05:55:37 asciilifeform: if it were to be sat upon actual iron, it would very quickly come to resemble minix3.

05:55:43 mircea_popescu: " the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage."

05:56:01 mircea_popescu: because why ? and don't say gfx card.

05:56:13 asciilifeform: even if you make the networking go over slip (yes, it has uart driver! behold)

05:56:26 asciilifeform: you still gotta cache the disk.

05:56:45 asciilifeform: no way to weasel out of it, if you want to keep up with the blockchain.

05:56:52 mircea_popescu: so you cache the disk.

05:57:20 asciilifeform: and you need a memory allocator.

05:57:22 asciilifeform: which is absent.

05:57:28 asciilifeform: which is actually how i found this thing at all.

05:57:36 asciilifeform: was looking at ancient 'malloc's

05:57:51 mircea_popescu: right. you get one you can trust.

05:57:57 mircea_popescu: like, a rowhammer immune one.

05:58:15 asciilifeform: no such thing on the pc.

05:58:45 asciilifeform: for so long as somebody can lead you to walk contiguous path in ram, you can rowhammer.

05:58:54 asciilifeform: (if you own that particular type of iron)

05:59:08 mircea_popescu: but they can't.

05:59:15 mircea_popescu: because you write your own allocator.

05:59:33 asciilifeform: it still creates contiguous swaths

05:59:46 asciilifeform: because the pc, unlike the lisp, doesn't have 'broken hearts'

05:59:52 mircea_popescu: mmm

06:00:06 asciilifeform: (these were magical bits that one could set in any memory word, that would cause it to transparently redirect to another word)

06:00:19 asciilifeform: it abolished the need for actual continuity in allocated segments.

06:00:34 asciilifeform: but at the obvious cost of... well, having such things kicking around.

06:00:50 asciilifeform: like so many little wormholes.

06:01:01 asciilifeform: *the lispm

06:01:47 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

06:01:52 gribble: Current Blocks: 382118 | Current Difficulty: 6.225398244976082E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 383039 | Next Difficulty In: 921 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

06:04:54 asciilifeform: at any rate, the correct way to build memory is - cons cells. as in, every addressable unit actually contains a word followed by another which acts solely as an address of 'next word.'

06:05:40 mircea_popescu: but that aside : if you build your own allocator you can do a lot of things you wish you could have done.

06:05:41 asciilifeform: when you desperately need speed / compactness, you use 'cdr coding' which is a cheat whereby you set a bit in the former word which signifies 'next is not an address but actually the next word.'

06:06:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in so far as the code is c code and the allocator needs to return contiguous regions of ram, you end up with malloc.

06:06:25 mircea_popescu: no

06:06:31 mircea_popescu: you end up with WHAT YOU THINK MALLOC IS.

06:06:43 mircea_popescu: but dollars to donuts that is pointedly not what malloc actuyally is.

06:07:11 *: asciilifeform was researching this very this

06:07:41 mircea_popescu: "this very this" lol. i'm not going to even research it. i know it's what the nexus of all diddlery would have to be if i was running the diddle department.

06:08:01 mircea_popescu: subtle, yes. there. has got to be there.

06:08:12 asciilifeform: if you want to laugh, cry, read the one in gpg 1.4.10.

06:08:17 mircea_popescu: noty

06:08:27 asciilifeform: (which has fudge factors, even, yes!)

06:08:42 asciilifeform: and rides on top of the system malloc at the same time (yes)

06:09:00 mircea_popescu: larger amt of phone number is always best

06:09:49 asciilifeform: this is one of the problems i've been fighting with for perhaps a year now.

06:10:15 asciilifeform: and the only promising heuristic thus far is a somewhat mircea_popescuine one - namely, to de-generalize the problem

06:10:34 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: myes, although mayhap we talk of different things

06:10:58 asciilifeform: (don't guarantee any arbitrary allocs whenever, but only bignums and only in strictly defined progression)

06:11:01 mircea_popescu: there should, i imagine, be a way to extract significant cheating out of the fact that we don't intend to support random gunk.

06:11:05 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what do you have in mind ?

06:11:24 ben_vulpes: various kinds of salaried and hourly employment. yourself?

06:11:55 ben_vulpes: "employ" in the states is a peculiar contractual arrangement where the employer agrees to remit taxes on behalf of the employed.

06:12:23 mircea_popescu: well, ok, but specifically. sf salary + benefits ? oregon salary + sorta ? low salary + equity ?

06:12:40 mircea_popescu: and doing what, webstuff in java only ? or ?

06:12:53 ben_vulpes: ah

06:14:33 ben_vulpes: i pay technical staff hourly rates such that should staff choose to work a 35+ hour week, they'd make depending on their value to my org ±10% of a bigcorp salary.

06:14:54 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?

06:15:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: l0l srsly, 10%?!! what are they, legless cambodians, hanging in nets ?

06:15:28 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and do you have workload they can actually work 35 hour weeks every week ? and doing what, tech wise ? js ? ruby ? py ? perl ?

06:15:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform +-10% means 90 to 110%

06:15:42 asciilifeform: ah

06:15:52 *: asciilifeform has been, perhaps, out of bed for too long

06:15:52 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: heh.

06:17:30 ben_vulpes: re technologies, we do mobile in obj-c, swift (i guess theoretically), java, server stuff in python/django/whatever, ruby/rails/whatever, java/clojure/{it's all algol you know}, and actual web stuff in whatever hodgepodge of html/css and js is already in place or pretty well-curated tools that...abstract over the hodgepodge to one degree or another.

06:18:09 mircea_popescu: well... asciilifeform meet ben_vulpes ; ben_vulpes meet asciilifeform

06:18:23 asciilifeform: i think i met ben_vulpes somewhere

06:18:25 asciilifeform: l0l

06:18:26 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: staff are guaranteed 32 hours/wk, client work backstopped out of my pocket.

06:18:57 ben_vulpes: i can always cook up work for people to do on my own tooling.

06:19:11 mircea_popescu: alfie grew an extra hand, was looking for exactly this type of flexible deal to help pay for his latest nuclear missile arrangement.

06:19:27 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you're familiar with stan's line about "working on anything not of my own mind is only slightly better than suicide"?

06:19:39 mircea_popescu: eh fuck him, what, he gets a say now ?

06:20:19 asciilifeform: eh i do items like 'port $proggy to $toaster'

06:20:35 asciilifeform: or 'determine if this hdd is able to serve up diddled boot sector.'

06:20:37 ben_vulpes: well should i need someone to port eulora to ipad i'll ring him up

06:20:44 asciilifeform: do.

06:21:01 asciilifeform: will port to supernintendo if someone wants.

06:21:41 ben_vulpes: as it stands, he hates the kind of work my shop does, and i have a list of people who also hate the kind of work that we do but also find the company company so beguiling that they're willing and sometimes even eager to do it anyways.

06:22:50 *: asciilifeform cannot compete with coolies either in cost or in enthusiasm

06:22:57 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform knows: life in the galleys is marginally less miserable with phri3ndz

06:23:04 asciilifeform: aha.

06:24:15 ben_vulpes: not eager to do it, i misspoke. eager to spend time in our mines rather than wherever they slave normally.

06:24:21 ben_vulpes: oh and shut the fuck up

06:24:29 ben_vulpes: i know your rates, and you could live comfortably out here.

06:25:04 ben_vulpes: 220V, 3 phase, a poured pad, and nobody would bat an eye if you weather-proofed the ADU.

06:25:44 asciilifeform: not looking for indenture with quarter. more of an old-fashioned thing-with-deliverables

06:26:13 ben_vulpes: d'you know? i only landed my first of those within the past month.

06:26:20 asciilifeform: congrats ben_vulpes

06:27:13 ben_vulpes: operating as a corporation rather than an individual has benefits like that.

06:28:35 ben_vulpes: much like picking up chixx, it's easier if you have a few in tow already.

06:29:56 ben_vulpes: also worth mentioning that gracefully handling rapidly shifting requirements is core to how the business operates.

06:30:25 asciilifeform: i suppose this means that ben_vulpes is also ready to port to supernintendo.

06:31:30 ben_vulpes: port natoblock $thing, sure.

06:32:13 ben_vulpes: !s bezzlecorp

06:32:13 assbot: 2 results for 'bezzlecorp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bezzlecorp

06:32:33 ben_vulpes: it is purpose designed, asciilifeform.

06:32:43 *: asciilifeform remembers very well what ben_vulpes's shop makes, from hanging out at c3.

06:33:48 *: ben_vulpes is unsure if this is wankery or pricing exercise

06:34:06 *: mircea_popescu wonders himself.

06:34:13 asciilifeform: prolly the former

06:34:42 mircea_popescu: mkay.

06:35:41 ben_vulpes: if i find anything, i'll let you know

06:35:52 asciilifeform: ty.

06:36:02 asciilifeform: or wake me up if folks start paying for sunlight, aha.

06:36:19 ben_vulpes: if you want intros to indenturitude, i can provide this as well.

06:36:28 asciilifeform: no but ty.

06:37:06 ben_vulpes: culture out here is such that you can skirt by for ~30/wk and a relatively cheap commute, with no "lifetime commitment".

06:37:18 ben_vulpes: this provides for some small amount of thinking time.

06:37:46 mircea_popescu: o.O

06:37:48 asciilifeform: not interested in indenture.

06:37:48 mircea_popescu: 30 whats ?

06:37:55 ben_vulpes: hrs

06:38:22 mircea_popescu: ah ah

06:40:08 asciilifeform: at any rate, i must confess that i don't do www or ipnohe for any amount of pay.

06:40:13 ben_vulpes: do consider the improvement in the serf's quality of life when biking (or walking!) thirty minutes to and fro the galley each day, compared to the hour in the wheelbox each direction that can be had in other places, composed with the shorter work week that is possible.

06:40:39 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: for log readers only, this confession.

06:40:44 asciilifeform: aha.

06:40:55 ben_vulpes: and googOS?

06:40:58 asciilifeform: ditto

06:41:01 mircea_popescu: not necessarily unrelated, http://38.media.tumblr.com/d9339db6fd73911e33ca9b1641e31b12/tumblr_n5mvjw7ee01ts9k3wo1_400.gif

06:41:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoiT9Q )

06:41:19 asciilifeform: ^ aha this is a good picture of www programming.

06:41:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, this "can't have X, can't have non-X" sorta thing will necessarily resolve itself in time. there's no other way.

06:43:41 asciilifeform: guess what, i don't give milk either.

06:44:08 asciilifeform: or lay eggs.

06:44:17 mircea_popescu: also liable to resolve in time

06:44:33 mircea_popescu: random thought of the day : wtf is this "boyfriend" bs. girlfriend i can see, but it's manfriend innit.

06:44:54 asciilifeform: why not 'cockfriend'

06:45:12 mircea_popescu: maybe if you're gay.

06:45:44 asciilifeform: does have that flavour, doesntit

07:15:00 liquidassets: Boyfriend suggests, ‘he’s not fucking other women just me’ Manfriend, not so.

07:31:29 BingoBoingo: Boyfriend suggest alterboy being buggered over the altar

07:35:45 punkman: guten morgen

08:01:43 punkman: heh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/04/pentagon-farmed-out-its-coding-to-russia.html

08:01:44 assbot: Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1HsLbJM )

10:03:32 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

10:03:33 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 383.52, Best ask: 383.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 383.52, 24 hour volume: 286173.58836608, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None

10:45:45 davout: messieurs dames

12:19:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2360 @ 0.00059225 = 1.3977 BTC [+] {7}

12:25:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2246 @ 0.00073859 = 1.6589 BTC [+] {11}

12:42:41 punkman: dat havelock action

13:08:25 jurov: i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync

13:09:10 jurov: returned to 0.10 which works

13:09:12 shinohai: ;;later tell SuchWow Your quit message is atrocious. "This too is temporary, as most things are" reduces your comma usage and makes you not sound like a hippy.

13:09:12 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:09:53 shinohai: jurov: I have had same results. it won't sync against new core.

13:12:20 punkman: what happens with 0.11?

13:14:46 shinohai: I can't get core to not crash 0.11 xD

13:15:10 shinohai: I have an old 0.10.0 binary that does.

13:19:06 jurov: punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore

13:21:00 punkman: jurov, does the 0.11 instance ban the 0.5.4?

13:22:56 jurov: at first it did

13:23:33 jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11

13:23:48 jurov: then 0.5.4 connected but could not get data

13:24:30 jurov: then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later

13:28:05 shinohai: I can't say for certain until I clone my drive, had to idle it for a bit.

13:28:31 shinohai: Got new shitty 500 mb drive yesterday from china! :D

13:53:23 punkman: http://qz.com/540571/baidu-found-chinas-ghost-cities-but-it-is-keeping-their-locations-mostly-a-secret/

13:53:24 assbot: Baidu found China’s “ghost cities,” but it is keeping their locations mostly a secret - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRCXz2 )

13:58:15 shinohai: http://www.wsj.com/articles/mexicos-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-personal-marijuana-use-1446670474 << haz paywall sorry

13:58:16 assbot: Mexico’s Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Personal Marijuana Use - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRDDEx )

15:08:18 asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?

15:08:18 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 13:24:30; jurov: then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later

15:09:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317131 << might want to patch trb's version thing instead

15:09:10 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 13:23:33; jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11

16:41:08 mircea_popescu: liquidassets which is the point.

16:41:28 mircea_popescu: <assbot> Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast << ahahahaha no, really ?

16:41:52 mircea_popescu: <jurov> i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync << this is a horribru error message.

16:42:39 mircea_popescu: <jurov> punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore << nuts. so 0.11 is forked off the network then ?

16:47:01 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume << loller.

16:47:01 assbot: Bitcoin Total Output Volume ... ( http://bit.ly/1WCGRyD )

16:54:15 thestringpuller: what's with reddit complaining about the blocksize bullshit again?

16:55:37 trinque: The Department of Defense's posture on cybersecurity ultimately affects national security. << There's a deep cultural flaw in this sentence emanating from the word posture.

16:57:12 mircea_popescu: why ? the country admits it's posturing.

16:57:16 trinque: the notion that merely looking like the thing you wish to be is sufficient has seeped into everything

16:57:18 trinque: right

16:57:23 mircea_popescu: this is good.

16:57:41 mircea_popescu: thank you for your leadership.

16:58:16 punkman: so according to that chart 11million btc moved in a day?

16:58:56 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't think it's worth a crap in absolute terms.

16:59:01 mircea_popescu: "~5x more than previously average"

16:59:16 mircea_popescu: within an unknown error margin.

16:59:41 punkman: days destroyed is much smoother

16:59:54 mircea_popescu: which indicates that it's mostly people moving the same btc back and forth.

17:00:18 mircea_popescu: ie, that same 1-2% of the coins that are in hands of self important usg ceo/vc types.

17:00:41 mircea_popescu: my god, ceo is going to go the way of nigger and handicapped within my lifetime isn't it.

17:00:46 mircea_popescu: it already is practically an insult.

17:25:32 mircea_popescu: and mpex is back. sorry for the downtime everyone.

17:29:02 *: adlai is surprised nobody has yet accused the marshals of building the recent eiffel tower, as auction optimization

17:32:29 punkman: the what?

17:33:19 adlai: patternspeak for up-and-down. i'm probably misusing it, iirc it's only an eiffel if the down returns to levels before the up

17:36:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00054231 = 15.8355 BTC [+] {2}

17:48:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2360 @ 0.00053447 = 1.2613 BTC [-] {2}

17:51:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00053447 = 23.3831 BTC [-]

18:09:40 mircea_popescu: adlai because it's not true. they get accused of the scams they actually pull.

18:11:58 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.33730996 BTC on 'Yes' - Luke Skywalker Turns To The Dark Side In Episode VII - http://bitbet.us/bet/1218/luke-skywalker-turns-to-the-dark-side-in/#b7

18:17:46 mircea_popescu: jurov : qntra shares added.

18:21:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42793 @ 0.00054238 = 23.2101 BTC [+] {7}

18:25:21 PeterL: mircea_popescu: so what was the problem with MPEx?

18:25:50 mircea_popescu: yes.

18:26:39 adlai: !b 2

18:26:40 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/39NEZA9.txt )

18:32:42 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Qntra (S.QNTR) October 2015 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-october-2015-statement/

18:33:35 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1315952 << You are saying chemistry is not still alive? Seems to me that there is alot going on in chem right now?

18:33:35 assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 18:01:40; asciilifeform: which more or less died out as a scientific field in the 'civilized' world.

18:34:43 mircea_popescu: jurov ^ qntra shares added, also.

18:34:51 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:35:17 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: my broadcast later tonight when i get out of the pit

18:35:24 mircea_popescu: cool ascii_field

18:36:03 ascii_field: PeterL: most of what's happening in chem is a) usg grantsmanship b) monkey tricks to extend pharma patents. and most of what remains is being done by folks who grew up with hobby chemistry.

18:38:20 PeterL: There is also chemistry research at, for example, Dow Chemical, which they don't publish but instead use to make themselves money, does this not count?

18:38:55 ascii_field: PeterL: in so far as i can see from my perch, nothing fundamental has happened in at least a generation.

18:39:01 ascii_field: whole thing runs on 1960s fumes.

18:39:06 mircea_popescu: we were just discussing tropsch last week!

18:39:10 mircea_popescu: lots is happening.

18:39:17 ascii_field: nothing fundamental.

18:39:22 ascii_field: e.g., nylon.

18:39:30 mircea_popescu: catalysts are fundamental enough.

18:39:34 ascii_field: it's massage.

18:39:42 ascii_field: e.g., +10% yield, -10% cost

18:39:45 ascii_field: like semiconductors.

18:39:46 mircea_popescu: yes well nothing fundamental has happened in physics since mendeleev

18:39:53 mircea_popescu: what the fuck's gonna happen, invent a new electron load ?

18:40:15 PeterL: there is alot of organic synthesis space that has been investigated since then

18:40:19 ascii_field: fission's pretty fundamental. even something like tunnel diode.

18:40:28 mircea_popescu: so then catalytic chemistry counts.

18:40:51 PeterL: a bunch of small improvements adds up over time

18:41:03 mircea_popescu: how the fuck do you think you have genome sequencing, otherwise, and why the fuck do you think woman's stockings is a bigger deal.

18:41:11 ascii_field: it'd be fundamental if it opens up a whole concept that was previously closed. e.g., if a catalyst were to be found that makes electrolysis of h2o reasonably efficient

18:41:37 ascii_field: or room temp supercon.

18:41:38 ascii_field: etc

18:42:18 PeterL: I see, if you push the goal posts far enough away then nobody will ever score

18:42:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yer looking in the wrong end of the funnel. yes, women still wear stockings, but american south no longer can have plantations, because the fiber doesn't grow out of the ground.

18:42:44 ascii_field: but comes out of a nozzle in cn.

18:43:39 ascii_field: PeterL: there is such a thing as invention.

18:43:58 ascii_field: and it - for the most part - isn't happening.

18:44:05 PeterL: but you are saying only super-invention counts?

18:44:11 mircea_popescu: this is nonsense, srlsy. the 70s-90s in catalysts are more important than anything that ever happened in chemistry.

18:44:18 ascii_field: didn't say 'useless'

18:44:22 mircea_popescu: you can fucking go around looking for biosynthesizers now, for this reason

18:44:23 ascii_field: just - not fundamental.

18:44:52 ascii_field: 'fundamental' is an actual thing. it doesn't resolve to 'very spiffy', it has a meaning

18:45:07 mircea_popescu: it IS fundamental.

18:45:10 ascii_field: as in, you can build ~new~ structure on it

18:45:11 mircea_popescu: what is your definition ?

18:45:15 mircea_popescu: yes, new structure.

18:45:21 ascii_field: the 17th floor of empire state bldg is not a fundament.

18:45:33 mircea_popescu: but the FACT that now there are 17 floor buildings IS fundament.

18:45:47 PeterL: but without the 17th floor you can't build the 18th floor

18:45:48 mircea_popescu: i don't care you sat on your tatched roof in mongolia and thus "dreamed" of skyscraper.

18:46:43 ascii_field: bldg has a foundation. it is different from the other parts of the structure in that it lets you start having floors where prior you could only sit down in the dirt.

18:47:20 ascii_field: this is not a moral judgement, just an observation - you need different people for the foundation of a concept, than for 17th floor

18:48:31 ascii_field: poor old j.c.maxwell gets no rest when this comes up, but i'ma have to use him as example again. he didn't even bother ~trying~ to build a radio...

18:48:41 mircea_popescu: you've still not defined your "fundamental" "actula thing"

18:48:42 ascii_field: though he derived all of the maths that have or will ever apply.

18:49:11 ascii_field: ~that~'s fundamental.

18:49:22 ascii_field: yesterday no one knew em wave was a thing. and then - it is.

18:49:37 mircea_popescu: and you expect this to happen in chemistry ?

18:49:50 mircea_popescu: it never happened in chemistry. it was always physics.

18:49:50 ascii_field: it was happening as late as 1960s

18:49:54 mircea_popescu: was not.

18:50:03 mircea_popescu: this is like complaining electric engineering didn't invent any new type of electron.

18:50:04 ascii_field: belousov-zhabotinsky reaction.

18:50:09 mircea_popescu: of course it doesn't. it's engineering.

18:50:11 mircea_popescu: lol ?

18:50:28 mircea_popescu: THAT is fundamental, catalythics are now ?

18:50:33 mircea_popescu: not* ? what are you, hungarian ?

18:50:45 ascii_field: it was utterly fundamental

18:51:03 mircea_popescu: less words more proof.

18:51:05 ascii_field: startling to the point that nato lands shelved it as sov disinfo for decades

18:51:20 mircea_popescu: what nato does informs no one to no degree.

18:51:20 ascii_field: proved that thermodynamics is only stochastically applicable.

18:51:42 ascii_field: (that energy is only conserved on a large enough time scale)

18:52:09 ascii_field: aww i ~liked~ kakobreklaa

18:52:11 ascii_field: so finnish

18:52:11 mircea_popescu: but by your very definition this is not a fundamental result.

18:52:19 mircea_popescu: it is merely the experimental verification of the theoretically obvious

18:52:36 mircea_popescu: ever since qm reduced macro tm to the status of macro tm

18:53:16 mircea_popescu: !up kakobreklaa

18:53:20 kakobreklaa: fuckin chanserv

18:53:27 mircea_popescu: hola!

18:53:27 kakobreklaa: nickserv i mean

18:53:34 kakobreklaa: hi

18:53:47 mircea_popescu: this inspires me! tonight ima have one girl write nickserv on her pubis, and the other chanserv

18:53:53 mircea_popescu: boi o boi am i hgonna have a fun

18:54:00 ascii_field: http://www.ux.uis.no/~ruoff/BZ_Phenomenology.html

18:54:01 assbot: BZ-Phenomenology ... ( http://bit.ly/1PdhdBA )

18:54:43 mircea_popescu: "In its classical form the BZ reaction consist of a one-electron redox catalyst"

18:54:57 mircea_popescu: aka "let's ignore what's being said and run off with one marginal example of the broad category discussed".

18:55:10 kakobreklaa: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317035 < i dont see how this fixes your dust problems - you may feel better handling it but you still need to handle it. i suspect you let some retarded algo chose your tx outputs for you amirite?

18:55:10 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 06:14:54; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?

18:55:17 ascii_field: iirc mircea_popescu was speaking of petro cracking catalysts earlier ?

18:55:29 ascii_field: which are '% massage' rather than 'new field'

18:55:35 mircea_popescu: no. speaking of catalythic chemistry. as a thing. which it is.

18:55:52 mircea_popescu: and my examples were around genome research and biosynthesizer identification

18:56:00 mircea_popescu: neither of which can be read reductionistically to "petrochem".

18:56:10 mircea_popescu: kakobreklaa it will discourage people from sending them.

18:56:20 kakobreklaa: lol, like poorfags read

18:56:24 ascii_field: these last two, i had the misfortune to be involved in.

18:56:32 mircea_popescu: it's also a problem of cost. dust txn impose a cost on us.

18:56:45 mircea_popescu: currently this CAN work as an extraction engine - it costs me more to make the payouts than i take in.

18:57:19 ascii_field: l0lwut, bitbet is undergoing shitburial ?

18:57:21 mircea_popescu: ascii_field so you hate them, that's fine, but you can't impugn the whole subdiscipline just because idiots somewhere

18:57:22 kakobreklaa: if you leave dust sitting long enough and at some point flush all the dust in a single tx to a nondusty result ?

18:57:40 mircea_popescu: "long enough" = cost ; flush = cost. etc.

18:57:55 mircea_popescu: it is not worth my time to handle 10k satoshi txn for less than 10k satoshi. this is a fact.

18:57:56 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i don't hate'em, but i did search in vain for signs that somebody was ~thinking~ rather than merely piling intel xeons ten metres high

18:58:16 ascii_field: and doing dynamics sims

18:58:19 kakobreklaa: the long enough cost on dust is dust.

18:58:47 mircea_popescu: think that i have to keep SOME dust over here while idiots get aggitated because "o noes it's been 25 hours" so im now creating more dust

18:58:58 mircea_popescu: which will come back to me, and i have to sit on it, and create more dust to payout.

18:59:20 mircea_popescu: i suppose if you prefer i can instead make it a time rule, and be like "bets under 0.0001 are paid in a year. bets under 0.01 are paid in a week"

18:59:28 mircea_popescu: seems it is saner to be paid in money than in time, to me.

18:59:41 kakobreklaa: so you wanna make poorfags even poorer to a point where they no longer send a satoshi, is this the idea?

19:00:19 mircea_popescu: they can save up.

19:00:23 kakobreklaa: l0l

19:00:34 mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions.

19:00:39 phf: v6 is a beauty, but for the amount of stuff that's required to be written why not lisp os?

19:00:40 punkman: why not a minimum bet amount, everything else gracious donation

19:00:45 mircea_popescu: it's just not worth anyone's time for them to exist.

19:01:01 mircea_popescu: punkman kinda what i was proposing, a progressive scale. imo the way i stated it is better pr, but whatevs.

19:01:03 ascii_field: phf: i was trying to see if anyone comes to this conclusion independently of my saying it.

19:01:17 mircea_popescu: phf because unix runs on 486 and lisp does not.

19:01:20 ascii_field: phf: THE SIMPLEST malloc() is 10x more complicated than, e.g, the gc engine in 'tinyscheme'

19:01:28 ascii_field: and it sure as fuck runs on 486

19:01:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, im off will bbl.

19:01:34 ascii_field: and even 16bit micro.

19:01:47 mircea_popescu: ascii_field god damned weren't you going on about how it needs sbcl machine bla bla ?

19:01:55 ascii_field: for periphs

19:02:01 mircea_popescu: this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen.

19:02:03 ascii_field: if you want to use it as a graphical terminal

19:02:10 ascii_field: let's not mix the warm and the soft

19:02:24 ascii_field: i have raw scheme going on x64 metal right now

19:02:27 ascii_field: just no useful i/o.

19:02:44 phf: mircea_popescu: i'm just stirring shit up

19:03:04 PeterL: mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do?

19:03:14 mircea_popescu: anyway bbl fo reals.

19:03:49 kakobreklaa: way cooler to just do it arbitrarily.

19:07:12 lobbes: !up ascii_field

19:07:43 phf: ascii_field: my undergrad "thesis" was putting a malloc on a one of those teaching os's, it was interesting in that "wrestling with bare metal" sort of way, but then i learned how lispm does it, and realized that i was lied to

19:08:32 ascii_field: aha

19:08:41 ascii_field: phf: i tried to explain some of this in last night's thread

19:09:08 ascii_field: but realized that my interlocutors did not know the fundamentals involved (because scarcely anybody does, and not everyone is an archaeologist)

19:13:25 thestringpuller: phf: ugh they made you do that shit too? we had to write malloc for the game boy advance, or a game boy advance game for a final project for course in C

19:21:12 phf: ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad"

19:21:42 ascii_field: or 'gc sux because java'

19:21:45 ascii_field: etc

19:21:47 phf: right

19:23:13 kakobreklaa: live and learn

19:24:01 thestringpuller: !up kakobreklaa

19:27:17 shinohai: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/us/louisiana-police-shooting-marksville.html?_r=0

19:27:20 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1KZN6FY )

19:27:33 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317140 << for electrum server

19:27:33 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 15:08:18; asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?

19:28:36 ascii_field: jurov: do i understand, this needs a heavily patched client ?

19:28:48 ascii_field: and only available presently for the heathen one ?

19:28:58 lobbes: kakobreklaa: fuckin chanserv << I know what you mean. I had to ghost my nick off earlier

19:30:03 phf: thestringpuller: it wasn't actually forced. started as a final project in william arbaugh's (the guy who did the smooth handover wireless implementation at umd) class, where we were writing a malloc for the teaching os as a final project, only three mallocs came anywhere near the spec, since mine was one of them i had the opportunity to say that the whole thing was a sham "shit code written by retards", etc. and that you can have orders

19:30:03 phf: of magnitude improvements and that the whole thing is not even funny. he suggested that i do an implementation as an indepedent study for another semester and that's what i did

19:31:00 *: ascii_field remembers this os

19:31:55 phf: i've been trying very hard for the past 15 minutes to remember its name or anything about it, and even though i spent 8 months with it, i'm completely failing to

19:31:56 ascii_field: that was where i learned to despise unix.

19:32:14 ascii_field: in my era it was named 'geek os' but it had some earlier name.

19:32:32 PeterL: if unix is so horrible, why is there no alternative taking over the world?

19:32:57 PeterL: oh, wait, windows already did, right?

19:33:59 ascii_field: PeterL: iron

19:34:18 PeterL: the element?

19:34:36 ascii_field: no, the element is mainly si

19:38:54 trinque: PeterL: are you arguing from the wisdom of the mass market customer?

19:39:02 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:39:09 ascii_field: i'ma do a worked example for PeterL

19:39:12 ascii_field: so here goes.

19:39:31 ascii_field: your NIC, regardless of who built it, operates with ring buffers, roughly like this

19:39:35 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-11-2015#1316588 << when I was in middle school we went on a field trip to the Warren (MI) Army Tank Plant, tour included the Cray II, cool looking room sized machine with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain

19:39:35 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 01:07:56; asciilifeform: at any rate, i (and $maxint others) will port $whateverthefuckyouwant to, e.g., cray II. for a fee.

19:40:20 ascii_field: when a packet comes in over the wire, it gets thrown into a buffer pointed to by a particular register in the card's cpu, and the latter reads the addr of the next buffer from a pre-baked list

19:40:29 ascii_field: and rotates through said list.

19:40:34 ascii_field: ditto for transmission.

19:40:45 PeterL: trinque: yes, sarcasm flag operational, mostly

19:40:52 ascii_field: but what if - per last night's thread - you decided that you DON'T WANT TO REPRESENT STRINGS AS CONTIGUOUS BYTES ?

19:40:56 ascii_field: but rather, as cons cells?

19:41:12 ascii_field: where each character is stored in half of a word, with the other half being a pointer to the next char ?

19:41:43 PeterL: wouldn't that make strings take up twice as much memory?

19:41:43 ascii_field: suddenly you need a massive 'bureaucracy' to convert between the contiguous blobs your devices eat and shit, and your notion.

19:41:56 ascii_field: PeterL: see 'cdr coding' for why this does not have to be the case

19:42:30 ascii_field: i picked this example out of a tall hat with many others, to demonstrate the impedance mismatch between the lisp way of doing things and pc iron

19:42:42 ascii_field: and how it cannot be cleanly papered over in software.

19:43:29 ascii_field: AND this is a device for which we HAVE the specs !

19:43:33 ascii_field: for most pc iron - we do not...

19:43:41 ascii_field: and worse, ~think~ that we do.

19:43:50 ascii_field: !s intel me

19:43:51 assbot: 21 results for 'intel me' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=intel+me

19:44:39 ascii_field: i am deliberately not even mentioning gpu, because it is possible to have a useful computer with no vga board (e.g., you can speak x11 over tcp)

19:44:42 ascii_field: but you do need the nic.

19:45:41 ascii_field: likewise, pc arch is braindamaged in 1,001 ways which are NOT realistically correctable, and certainly not in software

19:45:51 ascii_field: e.g., there is no powerfail interrupt

19:46:04 ascii_field: nor any built-in provision for battery-backed transactional ram

19:46:16 PeterL: so the only way to get a better operating system is to start with purpose built hardware?

19:46:19 ascii_field: yes.

19:47:06 ascii_field: i learned this the hard way.

19:48:08 ascii_field: and all questions of os aside, you will need to bake own silicon if you don't like running usg blobs.

19:48:28 ascii_field: (the odds are very good that your southbridge is running just one such as we speak.)

19:50:06 ascii_field: even if we ignore the profound braindamage of the x86 arch - instruction set, memory structure, clumsily retrofitted multiprocessor, etc. -

19:52:27 ascii_field: the basic fact is that no two x86 pc boxes can be relied upon to have the same iron

19:52:37 PeterL: If you hypothetically could make your own silicon, and "real computer", do you think it could ever displace the entrenched systems everybody is currently using?

19:52:46 ascii_field: so now you have to constantly chase the largely nonexistent docs for new southbridge, etc

19:53:02 ascii_field: PeterL: no likelier than bitcoin displacing usd

19:53:34 ascii_field: or 'mazerati' killing 'ford'.

19:54:14 ascii_field: and you can't somehow beat microshit and crapple by competing on an imaginary playing field

19:54:16 ascii_field: there is no playing field

19:54:18 PeterL: derpiest will continue running winblows

19:54:21 ascii_field: there is usg diktat and that's it.

19:54:47 ascii_field: it'd have to be a computer for 100 people.

19:54:49 trinque: PeterL: this assumes that the same group of derps will continue to exist forever

19:54:52 ascii_field: i do not know how to make a cpu for 100 people.

19:55:23 PeterL: lacks a certain "economy of scale"

19:55:36 trinque: sounds more like "will this superior military weapon ever supercede this other weaker weapon in terms of market penetration?"

19:55:42 trinque: well. yes, but not that way

19:58:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19974 @ 0.00053447 = 10.6755 BTC [-]

19:59:25 PeterL: military weapons measure penetration by inches of steel, not percentages of market

20:00:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00053447 = 3.5275 BTC [-] {2}

20:00:05 trinque: that was not the point.

20:01:08 trinque: if I have 10 nukes and you have 100 artillery in a fortress, and I nuke the fortress, does a nuke silo spring up in its midst?

20:02:36 trinque: quantity is not the only consideration, nor is everyone on the same side

20:02:38 PeterL: so "real computer" takes over when "winblows users" all die off?

20:05:36 trinque: takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone?

20:06:20 ascii_field: PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken

20:06:25 ascii_field: so you are reasoning with broken priors.

20:07:02 PeterL: trying to fit trinque's nuke-artillery metaphore onto computers, clearly failing

20:07:14 ascii_field: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html << see also.

20:07:15 assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1GNEnfd )

20:08:15 ascii_field: in particular,

20:08:16 ascii_field: 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.'

20:08:35 ascii_field: microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people.

20:09:47 PeterL: !up ascii_field

20:11:19 ascii_field: PeterL: one of the things to understand is that your computer is the way it is because the 'computing industry' consists of 1,001 people mutually sucking one another's cocks and profiting off the braindamage to every fella actually trying to get useful work done.

20:11:39 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-10-2015#1308878 << see thread.

20:11:39 assbot: Logged on 27-10-2015 15:31:19; asciilifeform: this keeps in perfect fitting with the 'computing industry'-as-a-protection racket business model of the last 20+ yrs, where it 'solves' exclusively those problems which it, itself, creates.

20:13:43 PeterL: I'm off to get the kids from school, mostly I lurk by reading the logs

20:16:43 ben_vulpes: phf: where's a sane place from which to procure gpg-error? i've found some text files scattered about the web but nothing in the gpgme lang/cl dir

20:17:22 ben_vulpes: aha libgpg-error i guess, derp.

20:17:26 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: the thing is shaky beyond belief

20:19:05 ascii_field: not entirely unrelatedly,

20:19:23 ascii_field: i have a puzzle for ben_vulpes, who is awake, and mircea_popescu, who might soon awaken, and the rest:

20:19:31 ascii_field: this being:

20:19:33 ascii_field: what is 'v' worth ?

20:20:06 *: ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages"

20:20:23 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: when they ~are~ common lisp packages

20:20:25 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: don't mind me, i'm just trying to learn the violin.

20:20:26 ascii_field: ffi turds stink

20:20:30 ascii_field: invariably.

20:20:52 ascii_field: the author of an ffi pkg has no control over what c turd is on your box

20:30:03 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: any "v", your "v" or "v" in the abstract?

20:30:10 ascii_field: part II of puzzle for ben_vulpes and mircea_popescu - what was the continuity bridge worth ? - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225544

20:30:10 assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 13:54:55; mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.

20:30:38 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: in the abstract.

20:31:07 ascii_field: or rather, the concept+the working mechanism (ver 99)

20:32:48 ben_vulpes: possibly unvaluable and invaluable

20:32:58 ascii_field: these aren't things.

20:33:04 ascii_field: 'valueless' is a thing

20:33:08 ascii_field: 'valuable' is a thing.

20:33:31 ben_vulpes: well, what is the value of bitcoin?

20:33:41 ascii_field: to whom?

20:33:50 *: ben_vulpes bows

20:34:22 ascii_field: it is very valuable to, e.g., mircea_popescu

20:35:28 ben_vulpes: are you then asking what the value of 'v' is to me, then?

20:35:34 ben_vulpes: then then then

20:36:05 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: the thing i'm trying to figure out is whether i'm smarter than a chicken.

20:36:21 ascii_field: so far the evidence points to the negative

20:36:32 funkenstein_: what's the value of a bach partita?

20:36:59 ascii_field: funkenstein_: to his patrons, his ability to produce'em was valuable

20:37:03 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: I don't follow. again, as though I were five?

20:37:09 ascii_field: in the genuine sense of 'paid for.'

20:37:17 punkman: loper machine needs patrons too

20:37:22 ben_vulpes: !t s.nsa

20:37:22 assbot: You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey.

20:37:27 ascii_field: punkman: and mars needs women

20:37:38 ben_vulpes: !t m s.nsa

20:37:38 assbot: The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.

20:38:22 ben_vulpes: !t m s.qntr

20:38:22 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC)

20:38:57 funkenstein_: aha, proggys need patron model not box in store model

20:40:32 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: do you understand why chicken in particular ?

20:43:10 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field

20:43:26 ben_vulpes: not in the slightest.

20:43:41 ben_vulpes: in the sense of grown to be eaten?

20:44:07 ascii_field: in the sense that dumb bird lays eggs for free.

20:45:13 ben_vulpes: what the ever loving fuck is this mkerrorcodes.awk

20:45:26 ben_vulpes: well, "free". bird is fed.

20:45:41 ascii_field: aha. bird is smarter than ascii_field.

20:46:09 ben_vulpes: ascii_field is the proud owner of some equitytoiletpaper?

20:46:32 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: specifically discussing other works.

20:46:40 ben_vulpes: right.

20:47:20 punkman: http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr03/31/16/enhanced-19864-1391203636-19.jpg

20:47:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NSuEUq )

20:47:46 ascii_field: summary of what punkman thought of the other works ?

20:48:54 jurov: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 "if you are any kind of open-source leader or senior figure who is male, do not be alone with any female, ever, at a technical conference."

20:48:57 assbot: From kafkatrap to honeytrap ... ( http://bit.ly/1ktx7KJ )

20:49:07 ascii_field: jurov: its in the logz

20:49:10 ascii_field: whole thread

20:50:07 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: chicken cannot learn from its mistakes.

20:50:17 trinque: ascii_field: this is why I spoke of military hardware; it's only valuable if it's a) used and b) the user wins something of value

20:50:29 ascii_field: required reading for context: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html

20:50:30 assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1OKBnPu )

20:51:56 punkman: ascii_field: summary of what punkman thought of the other works ? << not at all

20:52:41 *: ascii_field not trying to troll people, but wants to get some sort of big picture view

20:53:08 *: ascii_field has a very distinct feeling, prompted by last night's thread, that he is failing a kind of economic iq test

20:54:36 phf: ben_vulpes: libgpg-error, and share/common-lisp is installed with brew version, but

20:54:58 phf: gpgme bindings are broken, since they've not been updated since 2008 or so, i'm surprised they are in the source tree at all

20:55:07 ascii_field: ^^

20:55:23 *: ascii_field distinctly recalls warning people about this a while back

20:55:44 ascii_field: gpg is ~extremely~ librarization-resistant, much like gcc.

20:55:46 phf: luckily for you today only you can get a new and improved PATCH from me that will at least let you create context, since i only finished it like last night, i don't yet know if it will actually encrypt, but it might

20:56:05 ben_vulpes: nifty, phf.

20:56:07 trinque: ascii_field: gotta invent the path which leads to the thing desired, not just the thing itself

20:56:33 trinque: there are plenty more knowledgable on this than myself, but this is why I ask periodically about smaller components of the thing, if such a thing exists at all

20:56:43 ascii_field: the most elementary component

20:56:44 ascii_field: is time.

20:56:46 ascii_field: my time.

20:57:01 ascii_field: there is not, it turns out, in many of these cases, any substitute for it.

20:57:20 trinque: that is certainly so

20:57:47 ben_vulpes: high performance individuals can hobble a team like this.

20:57:54 ascii_field: also there is no means of getting more than 24 hours of it per day.

20:58:08 ben_vulpes: "ah fuckit, get out of my way, i'll do it in a tenth the time and it'll be twice as good."

20:58:35 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: we are speaking of cases where there isn't even an 'it' prior.

20:59:17 ben_vulpes: separate the doing of it from the thinking up of the it to do.

20:59:25 ascii_field: and at any rate, i'm not a 'high-performance' anything.

20:59:46 trinque: could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft

21:00:38 ascii_field: trinque: even the hypothetical of 'without the theft' is rather like asking for 'without scurvy'

21:00:50 trinque: it means without bitcoin

21:00:53 ascii_field: at a certain stage of tech development, widespread scurvy is more or less certain

21:01:02 trinque: rather, before bitcoin this theft was possible

21:01:28 trinque: there was the thread about mathematics in the USSR which rings a bell here

21:01:48 ascii_field: multiple threads.

21:01:55 ascii_field: where i was trying to say more or less the same thing each time.

21:01:56 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: what's more valuable: a honed and tidied 'v' implementation or several different implementations from wotmembers?

21:02:09 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i was speaking of neither

21:02:19 ben_vulpes: no i know. but i'm asking you another question of value.

21:02:20 trinque: sure, that market distortions happen doesn't mean they don't happen in a useful direction. it only means that other things will suffer greatly, that things are imbalanced.

21:02:32 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: but of the system consisting of the invention plus the demonstration of its feasibility.

21:02:44 ascii_field: i.e. the thing i made.

21:03:00 trinque: ascii_field: it's simply this, that other than via magical thinking and zealotry, your thing will only happen when it costs less than someone is willing to pay to solve a problem he has

21:03:23 ascii_field: trinque: aha

21:03:39 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: 'value of ideas'?

21:03:46 ascii_field: not of motherfucking 'ideas'

21:03:49 trinque: ascii_field: so you should go cause problems for people meantime!

21:03:59 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: of the working item

21:04:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7852 @ 0.00053447 = 4.1967 BTC [-] {2}

21:04:09 ascii_field: which the other implementations are using as a crib sheet

21:06:10 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: or take the example of my trb patches.

21:06:18 ascii_field: (and the research that went into them)

21:07:06 ascii_field: this work had nothing to do with s.nsa product.

21:08:05 ben_vulpes: while noble, i do not see much turkey-buying value in pogoquest.

21:08:34 ascii_field: how about trb as a whole ?

21:09:00 ascii_field: or the continuity bridge, from old thread linked earlier ?

21:09:36 ascii_field: or the removal of the 'orphan' blk and tx dos vectors ? etc

21:10:14 ben_vulpes: what is the value of a put on facebook expiring 5 years from now?

21:10:16 ascii_field: see, it is this 'noble' thing that i don't grasp

21:10:40 ascii_field: because so far what it appears to mean is 'that's nice, chicken, keep laying eggs, but go and look for food ~somewhere~'

21:10:44 trinque: do you benefit from a world where bitcoin functions or don't you?

21:10:51 trinque: it's not rhetorical, it's *the* question

21:10:55 ascii_field: i happen to think that i do.

21:11:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12808 @ 0.0005402 = 6.9189 BTC [+] {2}

21:11:18 ascii_field: but i could be wrong.

21:11:22 trinque: this I think is the value in doing "world-building" work

21:11:26 ascii_field: and anyway nobody asked me whether it 'ought to exist'

21:11:28 ascii_field: it exists.

21:11:29 trinque: not that there's immediate pay; it's a long position

21:11:55 trinque: whether it exists theoretically is distinct from whether this run of the idea takes now or after the next dark age

21:11:56 ben_vulpes: so you've captured the value. bitcoin survives, and you benefit from its survival. so do other people, but when you advertise you also pay for people to learn about the solutionspace in general, including your competition.

21:12:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24397 @ 0.00054354 = 13.2607 BTC [+] {2}

21:12:41 ben_vulpes: doesn't necessarily mean it's -ev to advertise, just that someone else is deriving value from your media buys as well.

21:13:20 ben_vulpes: there's an old thread around the shop: "ain't nobody motivated by money in the bank"

21:13:24 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field

21:13:39 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: that sentence is incomplete

21:13:51 ascii_field: add '... until rent is due'

21:13:54 ben_vulpes: go, complete.

21:13:59 ascii_field: completed.

21:14:19 ben_vulpes: but then the money's not in the bank anymore!

21:14:36 *: ascii_field changes gas mask canister

21:14:47 phf: hehe

21:14:57 ben_vulpes: dafuq do you breathe, anyways.

21:15:02 ascii_field: air.

21:15:07 trinque: ben_vulpes: at his next cartridge change, slip him one with something that knocks him out, and make sure that he wakes up at your hq

21:15:11 trinque: heh!

21:15:22 phf: i think v is pretty cool

21:15:44 ascii_field: phf: but, as i think has been well established, not money-cool.

21:16:05 ascii_field: ditto trb.

21:18:08 phf: i don't know what that means, money's not cool, it's barelly adequate at purchasing cool (a highly debatable point)

21:18:29 mircea_popescu: ascii_field about the same that the us court system is worth.

21:18:30 ascii_field: money-cool means something that economically stands on its own

21:18:44 mircea_popescu: you can't sell it. if you keep it functioning well and in good shape, you can have an empire on the basis of it.

21:19:03 ascii_field: aha! mircea_popescu gets it.

21:19:18 phf: nobody's going to pay for v, but i thought that v is a dna level building block in a construction process of something that's beyond "money-cool", or bezzle cool as that's really what you're talking about ("rent is due")

21:19:54 ascii_field: nobody's ever paying for trb either. not even on lsd.

21:20:03 ascii_field: sunlight.

21:20:39 mircea_popescu: you're approximately in the position of a 20something woman who wants to be part of the cast of friends but doesn't have the rent.

21:20:56 *: ascii_field doesn't get the ref

21:20:59 mircea_popescu: you can't be in this cast if you can't make rent. and no, wondering "What my youthfull good looks are worth" does not work with that show

21:21:03 mircea_popescu: it's for a different show.

21:21:20 mircea_popescu: ;;google Friends

21:21:21 gribble: Friends - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends; Friends (TV Series 1994–2004) - IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108778/; The Original Friends Site: http://www.friends-tv.org/

21:21:29 ascii_field: they charged the actors money ?

21:21:38 mircea_popescu: not the show. the ACTUAL thing.

21:22:18 *: ascii_field reads the pediwik in search of 'actual thing'

21:22:42 mircea_popescu: "hip cool young people and the things they do"

21:22:49 mircea_popescu: "the in crowd"

21:22:50 mircea_popescu: etc.

21:23:05 ascii_field: anyway i'm safely not these, already.

21:23:54 mircea_popescu: no, you're breaking the comparison.

21:24:01 ascii_field: how?

21:24:09 mircea_popescu: ok, lemme go into painful detail.

21:24:59 mircea_popescu: there was once a group of 20something chicks that lived in so and so apartments and did so and so deeds and things. their history became the controlling factor for an entire generation of english speakers, who went and got rachedo's and so on and so forth. part A of comparison.

21:25:47 *: ascii_field escaped knowing any of this, somehow

21:26:00 mircea_popescu: there is today a group of people that do so and so with encryption and bitcoins and etc. their history will be the controlling factor for an entire generation [of mostly chinese and russian speakers], who'll go about calling themselves the MP of cmpany X, because ceo is uncool now. this is part B of comparison.

21:26:29 mircea_popescu: your notion that "oh, what is my participation in B's cool worth" is akin to the dumb polack chick in A going "what are my good looks worth, i can't make hollywood rent control"

21:26:34 mircea_popescu: nonsense.

21:26:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu seems to think that i was looking for an answer other than the one i already derived.

21:26:57 ascii_field: i know full well that it is worth nothing.

21:26:59 mircea_popescu: you asked me. if you weren't looking for an answer, wh yask me ?

21:27:05 mircea_popescu: nothing is not the word.

21:27:22 ascii_field: wanted to see if anyone, incl. mircea_popescu, might find an error in my reasoning.

21:28:03 ascii_field: e.g., do i contribute something in particular, or is it fungible like the 'good looks of a 20yo cunt'

21:28:35 *: trinque marvels at both the output of this guy and his assessment of it

21:28:41 mircea_popescu: neither of these approaches is actually meaningful, you're just murking up the material.

21:28:59 mircea_popescu: http://www.shefinds.com/files/2011/01/Jennifer-Aniston-Rachel-Cut.jpg <racheldo, ftr.

21:29:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1XTorMv )

21:29:09 mircea_popescu: sorta canine, i always thought.

21:30:37 mircea_popescu: anyway, to put the thing in more distant, and thus perhaps more comprehensible terms even if you'll likely not be able to resist the temptation to crush naisl with the microscope : "what is the value of rsa to kenyan ?" and "obviously all this 'crypto work' is general 20yo cunt good looks" to kenyan.

21:30:44 mircea_popescu: all this is rank nonsense.

21:31:14 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317308 << As long as it is not inflamed and angry it should be fine

21:31:14 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 19:02:01; mircea_popescu: this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen.

21:31:15 mircea_popescu: if i cared what kenyans value anything i might ask them. as it is, they don't even get a voice in blockchain size.

21:32:18 ascii_field: anyway i know very well that mircea_popescu runs a roman army, where you gotta bringe the horse, and the armour, and not a soviet army.

21:32:42 mircea_popescu: soviet armies are evil.

21:33:06 *: ascii_field was not advocating the merits of soviet armies.

21:33:42 mircea_popescu: nothing, least of which me, keeps you from running your own hoisehold soviet army style or any other style.

21:33:48 mircea_popescu: but in the forum there's no place for anything else.

21:33:53 ascii_field: no argument

21:34:01 mircea_popescu: alrightythen!

21:34:04 ascii_field: i suppose i ought to cut to the chase:

21:35:02 ascii_field: my main project is cardano. which i would like to roll out before i get 'accidented', starve (which may happen quite soon), or exhaust the patience of my co-author or of the shareholders. and thus,

21:35:29 ascii_field: from this point on i will have to ignore everything else, until rollout.

21:36:01 ascii_field: BUT if trb foundation really wants various things, it can make'em happen by... paying.

21:36:03 mircea_popescu: in other news, ima make myself some romanian style pickled cabbage!

21:36:15 ascii_field: neato

21:36:20 *: ben_vulpes has been waiting for this particular old tomato for some time

21:36:59 mircea_popescu: eh, relax wouldja. do what you can and let others do what they can and that's the whole story.

21:37:11 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that's really the lot of it

21:37:15 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317424 << Like bitcoin I am going to have to value it as an Aleph, just dunno which one

21:37:15 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:19:33; ascii_field: what is 'v' worth ?

21:37:45 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i posted all of this to add another 'can' to the list: services for pay. if anyone is interested in such.

21:37:53 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1219/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jan-2016/#b12

21:38:45 mircea_popescu: what's foundation got, like 10 btc or so ?

21:39:03 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-November/000177.html

21:39:04 assbot: [BTC-dev] Treasury October 2015 statement ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdlXV4 )

21:39:09 mircea_popescu: iirc they were disinclined from getting servers even, for yet

21:39:25 ascii_field: 13.82746102.

21:39:41 mircea_popescu: neway. voluntary is voluntary. has its upsides an' its downsided.

21:40:10 ascii_field: aha.

21:40:16 mircea_popescu: and as always is the case in life, if one doesn't manage to make one thing work, one'll sooner or later meet the same thing later on, with worse downside and less upside.

21:40:35 mircea_popescu: after all, soviet armies even are a thing because the reason prefers to sleep, or how was that quote.

21:40:55 ascii_field: again, not trying to troll people, but fact of the matter is that i only got so much 'voluntary'. and gotta prioritize.

21:41:13 ascii_field: 'cause if i starve, this cheats the shareholders.

21:41:17 mircea_popescu: makes sense.

21:41:31 mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone was really going "hey, alf is not doing enough works!" or anything ?

21:42:35 ascii_field: wouldn't surprise me

21:42:52 mircea_popescu: a part of your problems are in your own head, alfie.

21:43:04 mircea_popescu: !s it's a job not a conviction

21:43:04 assbot: 1 results for 'it's a job not a conviction' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=it%27s+a+job+not+a+conviction

21:43:27 phf: ascii_field: you're producing the most output by a margin of anyone here

21:43:51 mircea_popescu: :D

21:43:54 mircea_popescu: assbot rules.

21:43:56 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

21:43:57 phf: kek

21:44:00 ascii_field: they're only in my head in the sense that i'm not clever enough to be 'stand on own' economically as described in mircea_popescu's article re: same.

21:44:16 ascii_field: gotta work, pretty much every day of the year.

21:44:25 mircea_popescu: it'll come.

21:45:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, i appreciate the sentiment, i really do, it's pure love "oh im sorry i couldn't do more". fine, but don't let it consume you.

21:45:16 mircea_popescu: do what you can, when you can, you got a lifetime ahead o you.

21:45:26 ascii_field: pretty sure i got maybe a year or two

21:45:28 ascii_field: but aside.

21:45:44 mircea_popescu: a lifetime is not temporally specified.

21:45:49 ascii_field: aha!

21:46:29 ascii_field: anyway my objective wasn't to 'emo' people - recall, i have two bits of emotion register.

21:47:05 mircea_popescu: the objective emotion, in 28 days!

21:47:21 ascii_field: but to state 'various xxxxx is now available for a fee, unless at some point i get rich enough to afford the armour without having to pull own plow.'

21:48:05 ascii_field: and no, i don't expect any takers. and don't intend to 'emo' the non-takers

21:48:12 ascii_field: because i'm not (imho) retarded.

21:48:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00054456 = 27.7453 BTC [+]

21:49:24 ascii_field: http://pastebin.com/DPLFCgps << meanwhile schmucks advertise 0days 'FOR RENT!!'

21:49:25 assbot: Exploit kit! RIG v4.0 i am make Service Regular Updates Rebu - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7sTGf )

21:49:31 ascii_field: wtf, how does this work.

21:51:13 mircea_popescu: well... tghey get more rooted boxes.

21:51:43 ascii_field: but it never made any sense how one could evict a 'tenant' on one of these.

21:51:54 ascii_field: you'd end up playing 'core wars'

21:56:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317314 << dollar is only in this discussion because trying to give a newfag dimension to it. otherwise, the transaction fees/limits are established byt miners.

21:56:48 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 19:03:04; PeterL: mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do?

21:57:24 *: ascii_field sees 'newfag' for 1st time in engl.

21:58:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317323 << i think this is a drastic reduction that entirely misses the point. i'm generally careful not to discuss things i don't understand.

21:58:04 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 19:21:12; phf: ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad"

21:58:41 ascii_field: ^ i think he was referring in general to judgements on ~the possible~ based on ~the extant~

21:59:10 mircea_popescu: yeah well that never fucking worked.

21:59:27 mircea_popescu: but the spots on my spleen were because we can't seem to pin this down for five minutes.

21:59:30 mircea_popescu: keeps shapeshifting.

21:59:44 ascii_field: which this

22:00:22 mircea_popescu: actually, this is probably long overdue and a major public service. so i ordered teh gals bring cognac and i shall proceed

22:00:23 ascii_field: i'm seein' five or six thises

22:00:29 mircea_popescu: to ennumerate whatever the fuck we're even doing.

22:00:53 ascii_field: 571st regiment of cat reports for catuty!

22:00:59 mircea_popescu: Thing 1. We're trying to reduce bitcoind to a form where it's actually worth cutting trees to print it ;

22:01:09 ascii_field: ^ what asciilifeform wanted!!

22:01:22 mircea_popescu: Thing 2. We're trying to create an actually statically linked, weaponized bitcoind that's suitable for the pogo.

22:01:23 ascii_field: so he can write his.

22:01:54 mircea_popescu: Thing 3. We're trying to re-create a software management system that's based on sanity (=crypto). this mostly exists gratia alf & mod6 efforts, and it's called v.

22:02:01 phf: mircea_popescu: i was referring to those instances where it's ascii fielding objections from assorted people, not necessarily debates between you two

22:02:41 mircea_popescu: Thing 4. We're trying to create a proper (=crypto) communication system ; as part of this gpg was cut up and we're still barfing at the results. this is a huge task and if thee end product is reasonably well understood, the design's still widely open.

22:03:23 mircea_popescu: Thing 5. We're trying to create a sane os. This led to gentoo being cut open, libc being cut open, gcc being cut open, and we're still barfing at the results. I don't even want to think about it.

22:04:00 mircea_popescu: Thing 6. We're trying to create a sane computer (other than pogo). Part of this consideration is some in-principle fundamental research work into ternary to be maybe attached to Thing 3.

22:04:29 mircea_popescu: Thing 7. We're trying to create a pr core, which is roughly in the spot Thing 4 was a year ago, ie, when artifex got somehow married to it.

22:04:39 ascii_field: !seen artifexd

22:04:47 ascii_field: ;;seen artifexd

22:04:47 mircea_popescu: other than that there's other things (ie, a bitcoin game etc etc) but i got those.

22:04:47 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

22:04:54 mircea_popescu: this about it ?

22:05:22 ascii_field: afaik

22:05:22 shinohai: Very succinct

22:05:38 mircea_popescu: yeah, succint like 82 life sentences to run concurrently.

22:05:53 ascii_field: 1-6 are actually subdirs on my hdd.

22:06:11 ascii_field: each.

22:06:11 mircea_popescu: alright.

22:06:38 mircea_popescu: and cardano is vaguely bolted into either 7 or 4. in fact the entire anthill got opened mostly through there.

22:06:57 ascii_field: aha.

22:07:01 mircea_popescu: basically far from ascii_field getting paid, i think the thing here is, s.nsa should be hiring.

22:07:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00054456 = 8.1684 BTC [+]

22:07:33 *: ascii_field falls down l0lling

22:07:52 *: ascii_field spins, like turtle

22:08:23 phf: we lost him

22:08:33 mircea_popescu: we pee on him to put him out ?

22:08:44 ascii_field: eh, me console is designed for this

22:08:47 *: ascii_field gets up

22:09:13 ascii_field: kakobrekla no more finland ??

22:10:22 kakobrekla: finland is a fallback

22:10:26 ascii_field: ah

22:10:41 mircea_popescu: anjyway. while this... project is epicly delayed and way the fuck over budget, i am not particularly worried .

22:11:14 ascii_field: kakobrekla: 'Finlandia, Finlandia, sinne taas matkalla oli Iivana.'

22:11:28 ascii_field: (mega-classic, http://lyricstranslate.com/en/njet-molotoff-no-molotov.html )

22:11:29 assbot: Njet Molotoff lyrics + English translation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7tKXo )

22:12:57 kakobrekla: lol

22:13:05 mircea_popescu: who is bobrikov

22:13:42 kakobrekla: some su dude sounds like.

22:13:46 ascii_field: viceroy in fi under late ru empire

22:13:53 mircea_popescu: o

22:14:02 ascii_field: plugged in 1904.

22:15:46 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:15:57 ascii_field: http://heninen.net/njet/index.html << ru ver. and link to (i think) original audio.

22:15:58 assbot: Нет, Молотов ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7tSGi )

22:16:43 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: supposing for a moment that the notion was a serious one, who should we be hiring ?

22:16:54 ascii_field: (and with what)

22:17:37 mircea_popescu: with stock.

22:17:45 mircea_popescu: adn who, i dunno.

22:18:12 ascii_field: and to what

22:18:32 mircea_popescu: take your pick of the items in there.

22:18:36 mircea_popescu: not like there's not work to do.

22:19:45 ascii_field: so far, other than pieces of #3, and the whole of #7, it's all things that sit still except when i push'em.

22:20:08 mircea_popescu: well we can't hire mod6 mostly because if we do the foundation ends.

22:20:11 ascii_field: (7 is black magic and i won't even come near it)

22:20:57 ascii_field: what does mod6 do for living anyway

22:21:02 mircea_popescu: same as you.

22:21:05 ascii_field: re?

22:21:09 ascii_field: hm

22:21:11 mircea_popescu: works in some mine.

22:21:15 mircea_popescu: except he also raises some kids.

22:21:17 ascii_field: ah in that sense

22:21:21 ascii_field: aha this i recall

22:21:28 mircea_popescu: and hunts!

22:21:44 ascii_field: and prolly other interesting things.

22:21:55 thestringpuller: mod6: has kids?

22:21:56 thestringpuller: news to me

22:22:06 mircea_popescu: iirc he also judges new stripper in a six county area.

22:23:18 mircea_popescu: maybe phf, but the dude's not even bothered to collect the pile of mushrooms he earned doing i don't recall what for eulora

22:23:23 mircea_popescu: ah, mac porting was it.

22:27:05 jurov: qntra shares adistributed

22:27:11 jurov: !t m s.qntr

22:27:11 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC)

22:27:17 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/1bdffa8b7d57686c09bd57ecf43c8b7b/tumblr_n98tvuC3m41r1ux1wo1_1280.jpg

22:27:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ng3xjg )

22:28:36 BingoBoingo: Foodstamp culture: "I saw an episode of Bridezillas that she wanted to use EBT for her wedding cake. Except it was her friends card and it was not a store she was getting it from it was a lady baking out of her house and the baker lady was going to buy the stuff for the cake and like $700 in groceries as her 'payment'. They all got fines, the baker got shut down and the friend lost her ability to receive stamps and I think lost cu

22:28:37 BingoBoingo: stody of her kids to their dad because she had the kids on her case but because she was filmed letting her friend use the card they said she was neglecting to 'use state resources alloted for her kids' on her kids, so they opened a case against her and the judge let the kids say who they wanted to be with and it was dad. "

22:30:43 mircea_popescu: rape and microaggression.

22:30:49 BingoBoingo: srs

22:31:57 BingoBoingo: So pete still working on a PR setup? How does their compensation work? One share per tard tear?

22:32:36 mircea_popescu: i have nfi.

22:33:52 mircea_popescu: "with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain" << if the coolant bubbles you got serious problems. it's not supposed to do that.

22:34:53 ascii_field: mno

22:34:58 ascii_field: fluorinert boils

22:35:02 ascii_field: this was part of the design

22:35:18 ascii_field: (heat of phase change)

22:35:28 mircea_popescu: nuts

22:35:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00054309 = 18.1392 BTC [-]

22:35:40 ascii_field: somewhere north of 50c

22:35:59 ascii_field: hence the bubbles

22:37:24 mircea_popescu: check it out, "two phase collant", it's a thing

22:37:29 ascii_field: aha

22:37:44 ascii_field: big bux

22:37:54 ascii_field: iirc recently somebody opened a btc mine under f.

22:38:21 ascii_field: (or claimed to, at any rate)

22:39:21 ascii_field: http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/350001/view << photo of c2

22:39:23 assbot: Cooling system of Cray 2 super-computer - Stock Image T450/0126 - Science Photo Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uKe5 )

22:41:42 ascii_field: http://www.0x07bell.net/WWWMASTER/CrayWWWStuff/Criscan/Cray2cascade.jpg << 'waterfall' in upper centre of photo

22:41:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uPOJ )

22:41:44 ascii_field: operating.

22:42:27 ascii_field: from http://www.0x07bell.net/WWWMASTER/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqp2.html which is pretty spiffy historical pile

22:42:28 assbot: Cray Faq Part 2: Tales from the crypto and other bar stories ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uOuh )

22:42:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317405 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317404 control. has "industry" "taken over" "farming" ? no, it has not, people still farm. except, people who farm (argentina) get to suck the cock of people who industry (romania). but otherwise, feudalism continues unimpeded both as a thing in itself in east asia and as a thing to look forward to, maybe one day

22:42:39 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:06:20; ascii_field: PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken

22:42:39 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:05:36; trinque: takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone?

22:42:39 mircea_popescu: they develop it, in africa and venezuela etc. see also http://fraudsters.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/#comment-114814

22:42:40 assbot: Bitcoin and the poor on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uOKE )

22:43:57 ascii_field: linked site claims that the last known cray2 was not thrown out until '99.

22:44:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317411 << this, ftr, is deeply wrong. pluralism does not suffer because "mass markets". it would benefit from them, if the [people who were supposed to be the] elite weren't fucktards.

22:44:14 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:16; ascii_field: 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.'

22:44:37 mircea_popescu: this is like saying "abundance makes lazy apes want to watch tv". guess what ? it doesn't have to! nobody forces you to misuse your freedom!

22:44:48 ascii_field: recall the meth thread ?

22:44:52 mircea_popescu: i do.

22:44:56 ascii_field: so then.

22:45:00 mircea_popescu: so then what ?

22:45:07 ascii_field: they could all be erdos

22:45:09 mircea_popescu: all that discussion was about the mass.

22:45:09 ascii_field: if they wanted

22:45:13 mircea_popescu: no, they couldn't.

22:45:17 mircea_popescu: not ALL. there is no all.

22:45:46 ascii_field: sure. then where did we get the retarded elite?

22:45:48 mircea_popescu: until and unless you come to terms with the simple fact that you're special, you'll be stuck trying to explain friends to me.

22:45:50 ascii_field: martians came and put them in?

22:46:07 mircea_popescu: i blame the parents.

22:46:33 mircea_popescu: (not for maleducation. for poor sexual hygiene. fucking all the roadkill and such.)

22:46:44 mircea_popescu: lemme find this ad, maybe i manage.

22:46:51 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:47:30 ascii_field: don't have the thread handy, but at one point i explained how computing is tricky because its very existence as its current thing - that is, vlsi - is predicated on mass uptake

22:47:39 ascii_field: and how this is the root of the sux

22:48:12 mircea_popescu: was.

22:48:47 ascii_field: still is, until mircea_popescu or i figure out how to make 100 cpus.

22:49:10 mircea_popescu: well i can't find it. anyway, fucktarded outdoor thing in ba, "siempre se vuelve al primer amor" trying to sell italian classes. depicts an ugly chick in flats holding a huge red heart.

22:49:10 ascii_field: or even 1000.

22:49:19 mircea_popescu: that stupid bitch didn't look like something dogs would fuck

22:49:24 mircea_popescu: yet these idiots think she's someone's first love.

22:49:37 mircea_popescu: stop fucking all the ugly inept women. that's how you get stunted kids.

22:49:44 ascii_field: hey a sack of potatoes with a hole augered in is prolly somebody's 1st luv

22:49:59 mircea_popescu: not a matter of "someone".

22:50:26 mircea_popescu: a matter that the top male of 1015 (ie, STRONG) fucked hotties and had good children. whereas the top male of 2015 (ie, SMART) fucks horsefaces and is happy for it.

22:50:41 mircea_popescu: that's the martians that put the chlorotic non-elites on earth.

22:50:53 mircea_popescu: go for the hot ones like you own their mothers.

22:51:02 ascii_field: not enough war.

22:51:26 ascii_field: (how else do you resolve the problem of there being 1000 takers to each)

22:51:40 mircea_popescu: ascii_field we can make 100 cpus TODAY, and on tech that didn't even exist in 1960.

22:51:48 mircea_popescu: this is exactly how bitcoin mining got started.

22:52:01 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: in all srsnes i'd like to know how.

22:52:04 mircea_popescu: so no, the problem is not an absent "mass market". the problem is that there's work to be done for future uncertain benefit.

22:52:37 ascii_field: teach me how to make 100 cpus.

22:53:03 mircea_popescu: umd will let you tack on 100 cpus to some prototype run they got, won't it ?

22:53:18 ascii_field: those ain't cpus

22:53:21 mircea_popescu: shut up.

22:53:27 ascii_field: they won't package or test or guarantee so much as 1 working unit.

22:53:34 ascii_field: and you can't package in a kitchen.

22:53:36 ascii_field: i tried.

22:53:42 mircea_popescu: and no, i wont bother the bitfury guy, or anyone actually involved in doing things with this inept nonsense. for the same reason i shouldn't have queried ben_vulpes yest.

22:53:47 ascii_field: (tried how? you can buy bare dies)

22:53:52 mircea_popescu: entertaining anal child resistences is a bad plan.

22:54:26 mircea_popescu: you know for a fact, incontrovertible and above your ability to contest, that you can do 100 cpus, and it doesn'rt even cost that much.

22:54:27 mircea_popescu: moving on.

22:54:45 ascii_field: also we don't need z80 for anything.

22:54:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.0005422 = 7.0757 BTC [-] {2}

22:55:24 ascii_field: (show me where we can do a 486 or a dram of the time, for something like what the shared die folks charge.)

22:56:43 mircea_popescu: so i guess this can wait a few years then.

22:57:13 ascii_field: the base cost of doing any of it is only moving up.

22:57:20 ascii_field: esp. as the old 'secondhand' fabs fold.

22:57:31 ascii_field: recall the thread re: 'the middle dies' ?

22:57:44 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=13-06-2015#1163457 << it

22:57:44 assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 17:27:26; mircea_popescu: if you need anything that has to be made on something in the middle, make it now.

22:58:05 ascii_field: ^ was actually about this fab

22:59:52 mircea_popescu: looky, if we miss the window to civilisation we'll have missed the window to civilisation, that's all.

23:00:30 ascii_field: would still rather not, no?

23:00:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317412 << and mcdonalds' existence has kept alive a great many people that belonged dead. and all this has some ~statistical~ influences. it is not relevant on a case by case basis and it can't be an excuse for you.

23:00:49 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:35; ascii_field: microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people.

23:01:16 ascii_field: ftr it is my considered belief that if tmsr is sunk, it will be because it was unable to fab si.

23:01:24 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't, personally, give a rats ass either way. if yes, sure. if not, whatever, i have no problems riding a horse.

23:01:43 ascii_field: horse while enemy has gamma ray blaster.

23:01:49 ascii_field: in orbit.

23:01:59 mircea_popescu: eh nonsense.

23:02:17 mircea_popescu: i'm fucking "the enemy" ie some conclave of old fart's both daughters and occaisonally wife. always have.

23:02:23 mircea_popescu: i pointedly couldn't care less.

23:02:51 ascii_field: you might be fucking the wives of his dead skin cells

23:03:19 ascii_field: but i have nfi.

23:03:27 mircea_popescu: i keep getting sucked into discussing science fiction movie scripts with this guy.

23:03:32 mircea_popescu: i don't even like science fiction.

23:04:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317425 << the one that went "this works [because nobody's ever used it, like you know, burning man before it got populat]" ?

23:04:26 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:20:06; *: ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages"

23:05:00 ascii_field: the ones that don't reference items in the sea of c shit - work.

23:05:06 mircea_popescu: for now.

23:05:09 ascii_field: for ever.

23:05:14 ascii_field: that's what ansi cl means.

23:05:31 mircea_popescu: and once they become popular, they will BE the sea of lisp shit.

23:05:37 mircea_popescu: c worked in the 70s just fine, also.

23:05:48 ascii_field: common lisp did not exist in the 70s

23:05:57 mircea_popescu: the problem here is keeping the herd out of computing, nothing else.

23:05:58 ascii_field: it was actually an answer to the tower of babel which prevailed then.

23:06:12 mircea_popescu: and it continues to appear to work for as long as it fails to appear interesting.

23:06:14 ascii_field: a kind of 'trb cleanup' of its time

23:06:31 mircea_popescu: because it has no mechanisms of institutionalized opression of the median.

23:06:32 ascii_field: but yes, the machines were expensive and the room temp iq folks were kept out.

23:06:36 mircea_popescu: right

23:06:36 ascii_field: on other side of locked doors.

23:06:49 mircea_popescu: that accidental, happenstantial mechanism is crap.

23:06:57 mircea_popescu: originally worked for unix, also.

23:07:01 *: ascii_field happens to agree

23:07:19 mircea_popescu: so now you know why you must go stand on own, with one go.

23:08:07 ascii_field: not exactly

23:08:15 mircea_popescu: of course not, god forbid.

23:09:24 ascii_field: what i meant was, what does it mean, 'with one go'

23:09:52 mircea_popescu: that in the same go, as you understand one, you understand the other. they being the exact same thing.

23:11:58 ascii_field: i don't see the connection

23:12:04 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes whty is the painter with ebola chick wearing high heeled platforms ?

23:13:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317481 << the thing that has haunted alf for years now.

23:13:04 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:50:29; ascii_field: required reading for context: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html

23:13:14 ascii_field: aha.

23:13:17 mircea_popescu: same thing happens to me, i get various bits i end up keeping for a long time.

23:13:37 ascii_field: see also my observation about being dumber than a chicken.

23:15:17 mircea_popescu: 1023 more of you , we could almost have a cpu.

23:15:22 ascii_field: aha.

23:18:11 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

23:19:23 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i don't think it is 'emo' to question my priorities when, after giving away my work to apparent applause for a year, i mention starving and audience suggests 'web dev'

23:19:44 ascii_field: audience collectively worth what, $1B ?

23:20:40 ascii_field: to me 'web dev' means 'work 17y.o. does' and is exactly equivalent to 'you are worth your weight in pork'

23:20:46 mircea_popescu: this is entirely besides the point. how you organise your own affairs is your own call. b-a is an equity play : you do things ; when and if they bring money in, you can have money ; when and if they bring chicks in, you can have chicks. that's how equity plays work : you get a claim to whatever future brings.

23:20:57 ascii_field: no argument

23:21:24 mircea_popescu: i understand that salaried work is both more common and more convenient, but i have personally no patience for salary types, and more importantly, there's no room in b-a for such, because it's not a fucking ewmpire, it's a republic,

23:21:31 mircea_popescu: \and in the early revolutionary phases at that.

23:21:39 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: wasn't speaking of 'salary types'

23:21:53 ascii_field: what did you pay that plumber in anyway

23:22:02 ascii_field: chocolate ?

23:22:19 mircea_popescu: which plumber ?

23:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22216 @ 0.00054456 = 12.0979 BTC [+]

23:22:27 ascii_field: the fella with the angle grinder

23:22:48 mircea_popescu: im either doing too many things at once or whatever. who ? link ? what ?

23:22:51 ascii_field: the hand-held one

23:23:07 mircea_popescu: oh, i don't recall, 200 pesos for the labour or something it was

23:23:30 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-10-2015#1298163

23:23:30 assbot: Logged on 13-10-2015 21:01:03; mircea_popescu: ok this is the most insane thing i ever saw. so plumber, looks like he escaped comicon or something, dorkiest dude ever. but THEN he proceeds to CUT THROUGH METAL PLATE FREEHAND

23:23:32 ascii_field: that one

23:23:35 ascii_field: just random example

23:23:41 mircea_popescu: right. ~200 pesos.

23:23:50 ascii_field: aha. fella did something that needed doing

23:23:56 ascii_field: does that make him 'salary type' ?

23:24:00 mircea_popescu: yes.

23:24:09 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as he doesn't get to put his name on the thing.

23:24:16 ascii_field: but i thought mircea_popescu didn't care for those

23:24:21 mircea_popescu: i don;t.

23:24:26 ascii_field: ought to have used a republic plumber

23:24:30 mircea_popescu: which is why if he came to have a chat with me i'd have the girls send him off.

23:24:32 ascii_field: who works for glory?

23:24:40 mircea_popescu: but i'm not fucking insane.

23:24:54 mircea_popescu: nor do i hire plumbers to do the code nor do i hire usian kids to do my plumbing.

23:24:55 ascii_field: what am i missing here

23:25:35 mircea_popescu: you are stubbornly missing here that what you'd like the world to be does not matter one whit, and whatever way you dress that masturbation up doesn't change its masturbatory content.

23:25:45 mircea_popescu: it's either or, pick one or the other and enough with it already.

23:25:57 mircea_popescu: you don't want to do webwork, don't. do not expect any sort of actual pay.

23:26:02 ascii_field: this might be asking the mega-s33krit, but what kind of people ~does~ mircea_popescu use to, e.g., maintain mircea_popescucoin ?

23:26:13 mircea_popescu: you don't want to be in start-ups, don't. do not expect you get to open your mouth.

23:26:20 mircea_popescu: either way, pick one live with it.

23:26:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is, i think, accustomed to smashing idiots' skulls and instinctively reaches for the designated hammer. but i'm not an idiot and don't expect things.

23:26:50 mircea_popescu: most people live with a mix of the two, which is fine, pick a mix you like and stick to it.

23:26:56 mircea_popescu: well so then!

23:27:41 *: ascii_field picked.

23:27:53 mircea_popescu: so then what is teh problem!

23:27:58 ascii_field: none afaik.

23:28:08 ascii_field: but wanted to take a proper shit into the record

23:28:13 ascii_field: in case anyone is later confused.

23:28:18 *: mircea_popescu thumbsup

23:28:57 ascii_field: mainly i gotta live out the oath that i swore.

23:40:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054456 = 16.5546 BTC [+]

23:41:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317506 << this is almost a certainty.

23:41:34 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 20:59:46; trinque: could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft

23:41:44 mircea_popescu: the russians got steel plants faster with stalin then they'd have without.

23:43:52 kakobrekla: doenst this apply to pretty much everything govt made

23:44:07 kakobrekla: the bad and the ugly

23:46:23 shinohai: !up Cristina

23:46:40 shinohai: vez eso? lo puedo hacer porque *ya he verifcado*

23:46:50 Cristina: !up

23:46:56 Cristina: ya me deja jeje

23:47:21 shinohai: The things I go through ...

23:51:46 shinohai: If Cristina has done anything, she has proved to me that winblowze is never going to be the correct tool for anything related to gpg

23:57:49 BingoBoingo: !up Cristina

23:58:25 mircea_popescu: this wasn't terribly controversial shinohai. howdja meet her anyway.

23:59:03 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah. baltimore'd have never had such good crime without govt.