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Transcript for 06-02-2016, 1059 lines:

00:07:18 BingoBoingo: 21 years old https://i.imgur.com/WUfEizb.jpg

00:07:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20f9Bzn )

00:23:09 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2016/02/intel-chips-to-get-slower/#comment-45052

00:23:10 assbot: Intel: Chips To Get Slower | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Syp9iA )

00:34:19 punkman: ascii_butugychag: i'll pass. << weren't you after blobless workstation with recent cpu?

00:34:30 punkman: Tyan has some boards for it

00:35:33 punkman: http://openpowerfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-technology-Roadmap-webpage-2.png

00:35:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SypXEa )

00:45:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no way chick on the left is 21.

00:46:01 BingoBoingo: Y not?

00:47:13 mircea_popescu: cuz she looks 34 to me ?

00:48:28 mats: weather beaten features

00:48:31 BingoBoingo: It's possible

00:48:49 BingoBoingo: My favorite acid trip from MP's /. adventure http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8713235&cid=51449793

00:48:51 assbot: Bitcoin Capitalist Opens Bounty For New Block Cipher - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1X9uYSF )

00:49:22 BingoBoingo: Modded +4 Interesting with "The block cipher is a proof of work function which takes some effort to compute."

00:49:31 BingoBoingo: Not even wrong

00:50:20 mircea_popescu: o.O

00:50:36 BingoBoingo: But I'm glad MP no longer can disbelieve the one on the right being 21 because "No way she's 21, that isn't enough time to eat so much"

00:50:46 mircea_popescu: holy shit put soup instead of sha i nthe pow, see people cry.

00:51:00 BingoBoingo: lol

00:51:45 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that part is easy : a) you cook a bunch of slop ; b) you catch the sow and chain her down ; c) you insert one tube in ass and another tube in mouth (should be same size, orientation indifferent) and then you d) pour.

00:51:52 mircea_popescu: this is how you create the singularity.

00:52:13 BingoBoingo: The scary thing is she dreams of someone doing that to her

00:53:04 mircea_popescu: mats i guess that's right, surfer chicks do end up looking 514 by the time they're out of college.

00:53:06 BingoBoingo: Now /.adventure this shit spreads https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/44d8je/slashdot_knows_of_our_butterfiend_mircea_popescu/czphupg

00:53:07 assbot: AussieCryptoCurrency comments on Slashdot Knows Of Our ButterFiend Mircea Popescu ... ( http://bit.ly/1X9viRo )

00:53:34 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the internet is but a series of tubes. see c) above.

00:54:14 BingoBoingo: But we need more pouring as in d)

00:54:15 mircea_popescu: "Behold, Mr Mackey, riding a horse so naturally it makes your dick hard. And there be bitches, oh yes." << i wonder what knowitall derp'd do if he actually knew what he's talking about.

00:55:01 BingoBoingo: Prolly do lsd trying to unknow?

00:58:25 BingoBoingo: Ok, this comment might actually take the LSD cake: "This is likely not for *encryption*." Goes on about proof of work http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8713235&cid=51450657

00:58:27 assbot: Bitcoin Capitalist Opens Bounty For New Block Cipher - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SysbDM )

01:11:59 BingoBoingo: brb, stepping away from the anti-social media

01:24:23 mircea_popescu: ok, this one's for asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116441

01:24:24 assbot: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nNj8kJ )

01:26:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00056249 = 2.2657 BTC [+]

01:30:08 mircea_popescu: "256 bits has sufficient entropy to render any brute force attack, and even severe weakening (e.g. sq root effort attacks) utterly infeasible." << dude where the fuck do they come from.

01:30:27 mircea_popescu: what colors are your bits, bitch! and how much entropy is there in this dword ?

01:32:54 mircea_popescu: "Anyhow, it would be a bunch of work for 10 BTC. Hardly worth anyone's time, given this bozo is gonna take all the credit, you probably don't even get fame nor fortune..." << jesus almighty. this is why it's fucking public, and lordship and all that, right ?

01:33:59 mircea_popescu: i suppose the fiat world has burned these poor people so consistently (see the plouffe thing recently discussed, see the notorious wolfram thing etc) it's just the default expectation. and then ~bitcoin~ is the scam.

02:02:12 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397582 << wut

02:02:12 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 01:24:23; mircea_popescu: ok, this one's for asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116441

02:02:31 mircea_popescu: no idea.

02:04:02 asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody ask where daemen and rijmen's 'fame and fortune' are ?

02:06:11 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the slashdot thing is raw sewage. srsly i 'want my five minutes back' plox.

02:07:00 mircea_popescu: i was entertained!

02:17:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397552 << why would i want ibm ?

02:17:09 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 00:34:19; punkman: ascii_butugychag: i'll pass. << weren't you after blobless workstation with recent cpu?

02:17:35 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397554 << aaaaaaaand finally we catch'em in an obvious, rancid lie

02:17:35 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 00:35:33; punkman: http://openpowerfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-technology-Roadmap-webpage-2.png

02:18:06 asciilifeform: from earlier link, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2016#1397463 we see :

02:18:06 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2016 22:49:53; BingoBoingo: https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease_info.php

02:18:17 asciilifeform: 'open-toolchain FPGAs'

02:18:28 asciilifeform: !s xilinx

02:18:28 assbot: 86 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx

02:18:41 asciilifeform: ^ 'open toolchain fpga' will happen some time after pigs fly over a frozen hell.

02:19:00 asciilifeform: and in the 'roadmap' link we specifically see 'xilinx.'

02:20:51 asciilifeform: re: the cipher thread, gotta love how nobody complained re: mircea_popescu asking folks to solve an unsolved mathematical problem, the answer to which eluded two great empires for half a century.

02:39:01 asciilifeform: !up toffoo

02:40:27 mircea_popescu: eh, what do they know.

02:40:41 mircea_popescu: and besides, i'm not asking them to solve it, i'm just saying, should you have a solution...

02:41:02 asciilifeform: next up, fraudsters antigravity prize ?

02:42:32 mircea_popescu: believe it or not, sifting all the incoming email produced some nuggets.

02:43:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/2BVMZ6B

02:43:15 assbot: dpaste: 2BVMZ6B ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3L5PO )

02:44:11 asciilifeform: l0l this is what i wanted to do, recall

02:44:18 asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu was allergic

02:44:28 mircea_popescu: hm ?

02:44:41 asciilifeform: cascades

02:46:19 asciilifeform: if this is the best anybody had to offer, the field is deader than i thought.

02:47:08 mircea_popescu: ya well.

02:48:20 *: asciilifeform expected to see the maths crackpots come out in full strength, propose martian oddities based on, e.g., graph isomorphisms problem, or vertex colouring

02:49:22 mircea_popescu: actually the 4 color map thing is in my head just as good if not better than knapsack

02:49:24 asciilifeform: i actually hit garey & johnson's mega-encyclopaedia 'intractability' and dug

02:49:31 asciilifeform: still diggin'

02:49:54 asciilifeform: incidentally, another b00k worthy of inclusion in #b-a w4r3z dump

02:50:07 asciilifeform: ~the~ canonical work on the subject, quarter century in

02:50:10 asciilifeform: unsurpassed.

02:51:30 asciilifeform: the gotcha is, there is no shortage of demonstrably np-complete problem classes; but converting one into a cryptosystem, esp. ~safely~ is nontrivial

02:52:10 asciilifeform: in fact, as far as i can tell, this has ~never been done at all~

02:52:12 asciilifeform: not once.

02:52:32 asciilifeform: (for n00bz, i will remind, factoring was never demonstrated to be np-complete)

02:54:37 mircea_popescu: aha.

02:55:24 mircea_popescu: moreover, it's sadly unclear what the task even is. yes you can rigurously define assumptions ; yes you can rigurously prove safety.

02:55:37 mircea_popescu: then you invalidate the assumptions in practice without realising and heuristics eats your lunch.

02:56:25 mircea_popescu: math is nice and good, but a method or mechanism through which to prove the corectness of implementation in the sense contemplated here is not yet seen and altogether may be an impossibility.

02:56:47 mircea_popescu: and when i say "not yet seen" i mean that in the strongest sense. not seen ONCE. fucking darwinism is not PROVEDLY correct.

02:57:13 mircea_popescu: it is provedly consistent (what'd be a "mathematical corectness" and empirically applicable with great predictive power. that's... not it.)

03:03:58 mircea_popescu: but in gauzy news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maznqwHuZ81qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

03:03:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3Nn1g )

03:20:39 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: the slashdot thing is raw sewage. srsly i 'want my five minutes back' plox. << Ask gasenwagen driver for a cigarette when the time comes

03:44:31 BingoBoingo: In other news that time you personally get called a lunatic by Luke-Jr and not just a lunatic, but the only lunatic whose opinon doesn't matter. https://archive.is/ChHAo

03:44:32 assbot: luke-jr comments on "Intel Chips To Get Slower" <- Particularly relevant for scaling ... ( http://bit.ly/1SyNCVe )

03:44:47 BingoBoingo: Does anyone know if there's a prize for that

04:01:54 BingoBoingo: !up adnn

04:07:00 danielpbarron: heh, dat vpn

04:12:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00056313 = 1.0136 BTC [+]

04:24:31 BingoBoingo: I have no idea when I'm going to stop glowing about recieving special contempt from Luke-Jr

04:25:45 BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr

04:25:56 Luke-Jr: wait, that's you? I thought it was mircea_popescu

04:26:25 BingoBoingo: No it's Mircea doesn't have time to write that much for Qntra.

04:27:06 BingoBoingo: !down Luke-Jr Before you take my glow away

04:27:30 danielpbarron: hehe

04:30:04 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell Luke-Jr Fuck yourself for editing that reddit comment and taking my glow away. I want you to go to the grave of blessed Mary mother of Jesus and very deeply and profoundly fuck yourself.

04:30:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:35:16 BingoBoingo: 17 months of Qntra, with 5 of them at the helm... I though I hit a significant milestone. Then it turns out that either I was honestly confused for Mircea Popescu or just maybe... Luke-Jr just tried to steal that milestone because he has so much contempt for me he was compelled to steal my satisfaction.

04:53:16 thestringpuller: Luke-Jr keeps on derpin'

05:29:31 mircea_popescu: lol poor bb.

05:29:43 mircea_popescu: dun worry man, we still know you're really me.

05:47:52 BingoBoingo: lol

05:54:06 mircea_popescu: "For the purposes of this vexatious litigation decision what is important is whether or not delivering the September 25, 2015 documents to the Alberta Court of Queen?s Bench satisfies the actus reus and mens rea requirements of Criminal Code, s 423.1. On a balance of probabilities, I conclude that it does."

05:54:18 mircea_popescu: epic. civil procedure applied to criminal code adjudications.

05:54:21 mircea_popescu: this guy is pretty lulzy.

05:54:26 deedbot-: [fraudsters] MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-january-2016-statement/

05:55:56 mircea_popescu: " The fact that this Court would never have entered Boisjoli?s materials as a default judgment that could then be enforced by ?conventional? means is immaterial. Criminal Code, s 24(1) is explicit that the fact an attempt to commit an offence could not succeed is irrelevant to whether or not that offence was attempted:

05:55:57 mircea_popescu: 24.(1) Every one who, having an intent to commit an offence, does or omits to do anything for the purpose of carrying out the intention is guilty of an attempt to commit the offence whether or not it was possible under the circumstances to commit the offence."

05:55:58 mircea_popescu: hurr.

05:56:06 mircea_popescu: check out the great laws they got up north!

06:06:22 BingoBoingo: Truly is 'Murica's hat

06:11:35 mircea_popescu: "[112] I make the above order on an interim basis effective immediately. In keeping with the procedure adopted in R v Fearn, at para 54, Chutskoff v Bonora, at para 138, and Lymer (Re), 2014 ABQB 696 (CanLII) at para 58, final operation of this Order is stayed for 30 days until November 6, 2015 to allow the Minister of Justice and Solicitor General to make submissions to change or vary this order, per Judicature A

06:11:35 mircea_popescu: ct, s 23.1(3), should the Minister of Justice and Attorney General wish to do so within that period of time. Absent any submissions this order will become final on November 6, 2015." << the best part is that the dude spent a while harping about how bullshit foisted agreements are bullshit ; then went on to do EXACTLY the same ; and all the while fails to understand wtf exactly impels the guy to behave thusly.

06:11:50 mircea_popescu: doh. he doesn't think you're special. because you're all equals and whatnot. what's so hard to grasp ?

06:12:27 mircea_popescu: gee whiz, i wonder where plaintif caught on this idea that "unless you so and so in 30 days you so and so"

06:13:22 mircea_popescu: then the bit where he attacks the notary is particularly precious.

06:13:24 mircea_popescu: "[116] I have previously concluded, on a balance of probabilities, that these documents were intended to illegally assert a debt against the Officer and Alberta, and that the attempt to file the documents Powell notarized is an indictable criminal offense. Powell is obviously in breach of the Code of Conduct."

06:13:43 mircea_popescu: how the fuck is the notary to know what you'll find when the stuff he notarizes butthurts your preferred coloring of reality ?

06:14:54 mircea_popescu: bonus points for the item two paragraphs supra, where the judge nigh-on admits that he tried to track down the guy and have a little behind the scenes compact with him. sadly he wasn't also a laywer. this of course is deeply different from "criminal scheme to bla bla".

06:15:26 *: mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.

06:23:04 mircea_popescu: bonus points to where j d rooke got so hot and bothered under the collar he originally made a ruling so broken (through disallowing appeal improperly) he had to come in with a "corrigendum", which apparently is how it works in canada.

06:23:35 mircea_popescu: in every jurisdiction i heard of clerical errors can be corrected by order, unless it touches to the substance. but again, canada, who knows.

06:25:05 mircea_popescu: getting back to the other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83s9b6zNK1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

06:25:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/23P7Z3K )

07:17:57 punkman: http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Home/Web/TAD/FuturePCHardware.html#l1

07:17:58 assbot: The Temple Operating System ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qjn185 )

07:19:55 mircea_popescu: hahaha templeos guy is making his own hardware now ?

07:20:05 mircea_popescu: alf starts all the good fads ;/

07:20:23 mircea_popescu: "We will make a spec for a perfectly standardized, $2500, cryogenically-cooled

07:20:24 mircea_popescu: monster desktop PC. Everybody in the developed world will buy one over the next

07:20:24 mircea_popescu: ten years, so quantity of 400,000,000, perhaps"

07:20:54 punkman: gotta love terry

07:21:51 mircea_popescu: his point re heat is actually quite sound. why the fuck do i have a cpu instead of a motherboard sized asic thing ?

07:22:22 punkman: because 300mm wafer slice is expensive?

07:22:28 mircea_popescu: computers should come on fucking fabric already, i go to the shop buy 8 meters of opteron.

07:23:03 punkman: that's more reasonable yes

07:26:50 punkman: "the display will be 4K (and of course 640x480 16 color)" heh

07:36:12 punkman: http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html#l1 candidate for bitcoin-fs?

07:36:13 assbot: The Temple Operating System ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qjo87M )

07:43:20 punkman: "We do not want UTF, just 8-bit characters. Somebody needs to choose new 8-bit ASCII characters for 128-255, since we do not want text graphic symbols. We want Russian, Greek or Hebrew alphabets, perhaps? ... Japan, China and Korea should switch-over to alphabets. Maybe, the United States will change to metric, out of good will."

07:46:05 danielpbarron: >> God said Linux's Wine should replace Windows. << of course he never cites chapter and verse on any of these "God said"s

07:55:33 punkman: he cites a lot of verses, but also has some kind of bible-markov-chain that says new things

07:57:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00056557 = 3.7893 BTC [+] {2}

07:58:35 fluffypony: danielpbarron: duh, he's quoting 1 Terry 7:38

08:00:37 fluffypony: "And in those days god spake unto Terry. And he said unto him: 'Terry', for that was name. And he proceeded to say: 'Terry, we need to talk about Windows.'"

08:00:38 fluffypony: and so on

08:32:34 punkman: http://jollyrogertelephone.com/

08:32:36 assbot: Jolly Roger Telephone ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd73i4 )

08:38:33 punkman: http://www.wsj.com/articles/high-salaries-haunt-some-job-hunters-1454634475

08:38:34 assbot: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7tF9 )

08:40:04 punkman: http://assets.bwbx.io/images/ioXhw1XZQPAo/v1/-1x-1.png

08:40:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7ARg )

09:35:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00056313 = 2.337 BTC [-] {2}

09:49:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00056557 = 4.0155 BTC [+] {2}

10:09:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15998 @ 0.00056069 = 8.9699 BTC [-] {2}

10:40:29 punkman: https://github.com/Whonix/gpg-bash-lib

10:40:30 assbot: GitHub - Whonix/gpg-bash-lib: gpg file verification bash library, addresses comprehensive threat model, that covers file name tampering, indefinite freeze, rollback, endless data attacks, etc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1USQMAo )

11:38:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00056558 = 5.5427 BTC [+]

12:00:36 BingoBoingo: !Up fuc

12:00:44 BingoBoingo: From the mines: Tinder has blocked one New Jersey 23-year-old, Robyn Gedrich, from using the app after several users reported her for spamming them with the same request: ?Do you feel the bern? Please text WORK to 82623 for me. Thanks!? She sent that message to dozens of matches each day for two weeks straight.

12:12:32 punkman: http://watson2016.com/

12:12:34 assbot: Watson for President 2016 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SzU3Hs )

12:31:17 BingoBoingo: In other marginal news: Docker, employer of the late Debian Founder, has now hired the Alpine Linux founder and is moving all their images to that. Might be relevant if anyone was looking at that musl based distro

12:32:18 BingoBoingo: punkman: Watson's not old enough. IBM's Deep Blue and Deep Though aren't quite old enough yet.

12:33:14 BingoBoingo: Gotta be 35, so ChipTest will be old enough for the 2020 elections

12:35:22 BingoBoingo: Now U of Illinois's Plato could run if it didn't die in 2006. Born in 1960 so 11 years older than Rubio.

12:51:34 BingoBoingo: Of potential ethical and slutical interest http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2016/02/05/sources-u-l-imposing-postseason-hoops-ban/79878760/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

12:51:39 assbot: Louisville Basketball self-imposed post-season ban for 2015-16 season ... ( http://bit.ly/20NBIaW )

12:52:40 BingoBoingo: "The decision comes as the NCAA continues to investigate Katina Powell?s claims that she and other escorts were paid thousands of dollars and given game tickets by former basketball staffer Andre McGee in exchange for dancing for and having sex with U of L players and recruits from 2010-14. The NCAA could still levy further sanctions on U of L in addition to the self-imposed penalty, but university president James Ramsey is hope

12:52:40 BingoBoingo: ful that the postseason ban will reduce the harshness of any potential punishment in the future."

12:59:21 BingoBoingo: !up pete_d_out

12:59:34 pete_d_out: cheers bb

13:00:27 BingoBoingo: You're welcome

13:03:12 BingoBoingo: No shortage of logs for pete

13:03:41 pete_d_out: so catching up : mp opened a nifty contest, intel affirmed the sensibility of the current blocksize, mccollarbone is on "pace" to win the bitbet, and my qntra about technology and politics, if admittedly not about bitcoin, was a bit long-winded. did i miss anything else ?

13:08:09 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397676 <-- found more from this same lulzathon here, for those interested in how the legal system in petelandia works (or doesn't) --> http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?t=10814

13:08:09 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 06:15:26; *: mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.

13:08:12 assbot: Allen Boisjoli - Alberta stomps on vexatious OPCA lititgant - Quatloos! ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKsCd2 )

13:08:36 BingoBoingo: pete_d_out: When you're authed we'll have the discussion to guide the sense of humor in the future that changes everything

13:09:41 pete_d_out: okie dokie karoake

13:11:09 BingoBoingo: pete_d_out: Well McCollarbone is only on pace if he keeps up the pace set in the sample size of two games he has after returning so far.

13:11:51 pete_d_out: aha, see : https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#c5612

13:11:51 assbot: BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 6 days 13 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/20NDbOo )

13:13:01 BingoBoingo: It's not so ridiculous. He's just gotta average a bit over two point per game for the rest of the season.

13:15:25 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397706 <-- para los que non tienen una suscripcion --> https://archive.is/5QNIo

13:15:25 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 08:38:34; assbot: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7tF9 )

13:15:26 assbot: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKtcHV )

13:16:47 pete_d_out: BingoBoingo that's not ridiculous like gavin averaging 100 btc per annum salary for the rest of his days, just as he did when vessenes scam was peaking, isn't ridiculous

13:17:29 pete_d_out: in the same way and for the same reasons

13:17:52 BingoBoingo: Well, the bet is if he lives up to the hype. Doing that for a career? Ridiculous. For 29-30 games perfectly possible if improbable as reflected by the BitBet odds

13:19:09 BingoBoingo: This one seems to be just about as improbably as the money on BitBet demonstrates, and I'm really liking the money I put on "Yes" before he got injured.

13:19:36 pete_d_out: ya, 25:1 isn't far off.

13:20:05 pete_d_out: in other, "how do we measure our cocks, in cm or inches" news, http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/05/most-expensive-car-ever-auctioned-it-depends.html

13:20:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKtwGx )

13:22:18 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396802 << heh. "moolteepahs"

13:22:18 assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 21:59:36; ascii_butugychag: remember the 'desk elephant' ?

13:29:43 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396683 << o.O i can't be the only one who'd like to hear the rest of this story.

13:29:43 assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 20:43:37; ascii_butugychag: or the one who came by my old office disguised as 'friendly neighbour, retired blahblahblah'

13:35:38 BingoBoingo: !up pete_d_out

13:35:50 pete_d_out: gracias

13:37:10 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396617 << bwahaha. finally a use for gimps.

13:37:10 assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 20:20:17; ascii_butugychag: 'fuck you, my public key is m * the next mersenne prime'

13:40:10 pete_d_out: might cause a bit of lag in communication, making 'practical blockchain telegraphy' look zippy, but hey, if it's important enough..

13:43:34 pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.

13:43:34 pete_d_out: “Workers are still a little discounted” in most fields, said Linda Barrington, executive director of the Institute for Compensation Studies at Cornell University’s ILR School. “Employers won’t pay what the last person in the job was paid because labor is now on sale.”" << ahh, i can taste the sweet butthurt tears of bahamas and his dream of a fully employed economy. "no one could've predicted" eh ?

13:48:30 pete_d_out: in other, "no you can't have nice things if you're a plebe" news : http://www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/amd-unveils-virtualized-gpus-new-quiet-chips.html

13:48:31 assbot: AMD Unveils Virtualized GPUs, New Quiet Chips ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKw47D )

13:51:20 BingoBoingo: If AMD can survive its debt for 5-7 years, they'll be in a pretty sweet place for competing with Intel.

13:51:36 pete_d_out: " In the latest move, AMD unveiled its FirePro S-Series GPUs that include the company's hardware-virtualization GPU architecture, Multiuser GPU (MxGPU). The technology is aimed at such segments as virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI), remote workstations, cloud gaming and cloud computing." << is cloud gaming a thing now ? i thought it was all ipad gaming.

13:52:08 pete_d_out: BingoBoingo sorta like which of medusa's heads "wins" at this point

13:52:21 pete_d_out: or cerberus or or etc

13:52:23 BingoBoingo: Cloud gaming is how they suppose they will feed iPads 3D graphics

13:52:29 pete_d_out: aha

13:53:17 pete_d_out: as if the nonexistent demand for counterstrike on an ipad is such a market driver

13:53:34 pete_d_out: but ianag

13:54:03 BingoBoingo: I dunno that customers actually want it. More a buzzword collision that attracts dumb money.

13:54:17 BingoBoingo: From people who don't grok the whole network latency deal.

13:54:50 pete_d_out: like "social media synergy" or "the uber of plasticine houses"

13:56:50 BingoBoingo: Well consider what AMD did with their first generation "Bobcat" fusion chips. Fallout 3 was a bit old when those came out, but when the Bobcats were introduce there was no other way to play fallout 3 in the same power consumption envelope.

13:57:08 BingoBoingo: Gotta stamp out the latency wherever it lives

13:58:08 *: BingoBoingo waits for Bitcoin node on SSD controller chip tutorial

13:58:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00056802 = 5.9642 BTC [+] {2}

13:58:34 pete_d_out: speaking of power consumption and moore's law, i hadn't realised that intel had claimed that the ~pentium 4~ would reach 10 ghz, nor that they actually manufactured the p4 at 3.8 ghz... in 2008. the only reason higher power outputs weren't produced en masse was that, apparently, the chips were already consuming 130w at 3.8 ghz and power consumption scaled linearly from there.

13:59:04 pete_d_out: fuck, i'd totally run a 10 ghz pentium. not like i pay for leccy.

13:59:12 pete_d_out: BingoBoingo that'd be pretty neat

14:00:03 BingoBoingo: pete_d_out: 5gHz overclocks aren't that new

14:00:09 *: pete_d_out imagines unplugging 220v stove to run p4 beastputer

14:00:38 pete_d_out: BingoBoingo that's exactly moore's problem

14:00:47 BingoBoingo: You know AMD chips overclock too.

14:00:54 pete_d_out: they're damn near a decade old!

14:01:19 BingoBoingo: If going 2008 vintage might as well make sure you get ECC and x64 that works with everything on the board

14:01:22 pete_d_out: "oh, but we added more cores so it feeeeels faster"

14:02:35 BingoBoingo: Well more core makes sense on 1 level, places to put other shit. It's what buying opteron fabric by the yard would be based on

14:02:52 pete_d_out: well, my clock's running out. i'll check back in soon :)

14:03:04 BingoBoingo: later

14:06:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10456 @ 0.00055879 = 5.8427 BTC [-] {3}

15:30:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397676 << rule of lawl

15:30:24 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 06:15:26; *: mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.

15:30:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397683 << fart in the wind

15:30:38 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 07:19:55; mircea_popescu: hahaha templeos guy is making his own hardware now ?

15:30:53 asciilifeform: let's see him 'make' so much as a flashlight.

15:31:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397690 << aha.

15:31:10 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 07:22:22; punkman: because 300mm wafer slice is expensive?

15:31:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397691 << fpga fabric. as i described maybe 1,001 times.

15:31:33 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 07:22:28; mircea_popescu: computers should come on fucking fabric already, i go to the shop buy 8 meters of opteron.

15:32:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397693 << the secret gag is that the 4k refers to... usd. it must.

15:32:27 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 07:26:50; punkman: "the display will be 4K (and of course 640x480 16 color)" heh

15:33:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397698 << templeos comes with a 'talk to god' terminal.

15:33:01 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 07:55:33; punkman: he cites a lot of verses, but also has some kind of bible-markov-chain that says new things

15:33:16 asciilifeform: i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.

15:33:27 BingoBoingo: There's 4k screens under $800 now, but at what COST!!!

15:33:51 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a fella i know installed one on his desk instead of a proper monitor. looks - imho - like shit

15:34:13 asciilifeform: pixels the size of gridpaper squares.

15:34:31 asciilifeform: and go and try turning it into vertical orientation, looks like shit soup

15:34:45 asciilifeform: (the correct orientation for a programmer's display is vertical.)

15:35:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397712 << holy FUCK what a steaming crock of shit. where does punkman find these ?

15:35:08 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 10:40:29; punkman: https://github.com/Whonix/gpg-bash-lib

15:37:17 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397741 << to the extent that this is an actual thing, it is an ancient plague, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-08-2015#1223259 , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223627

15:37:17 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:15:25; pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397706 <-- para los que non tienen una suscripcion --> https://archive.is/5QNIo

15:37:17 assbot: Logged on 03-08-2015 17:23:51; ascii_field: gernika: for the record, i once tried to get 'blue collar' work, and failed. turned away, 'overqualified, you'll leave as soon as you can'

15:37:17 assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 02:48:13; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-08-2015#1223506 << i've said it before, will say again: if you can fake your way out of 'overqualified, go away' when applying to be a cook or street sweeper, you can and will work profitably in hollywood or cia

15:37:30 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and go and try turning it into vertical orientation, looks like shit soup << AMD thinkpadish was acquired for acceptable vertical quality. Imagined myself holding it like a book for ebook reading.

15:37:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ick

15:38:05 asciilifeform: mega-unbalance

15:38:21 BingoBoingo: Turns out... occasions I'd want to do that instead of imagine doing that are rare.

15:38:23 asciilifeform: or was it one of those things that folds 180 degree

15:38:41 BingoBoingo: It goes out to near 180 flat

15:38:52 asciilifeform: nono, the other way

15:39:09 asciilifeform: where you end up with the keyboard parallel to and behind the screen

15:39:15 BingoBoingo: Fuck no.

15:39:22 asciilifeform: then useless

15:39:39 BingoBoingo: But actually rather well balanced

15:40:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << work in moar webdev, aha

15:40:01 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.

15:40:01 BingoBoingo: I thank the battery protruding from the back for that.

15:40:34 asciilifeform: being on the interchangeable-part end of fungibility sucks, newz at 11

15:40:45 mircea_popescu: in lieu of good morning, http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pm9kcA871qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

15:40:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nUfSEX )

15:41:20 asciilifeform: guten morgen mircea_popescu

15:41:29 mircea_popescu: how is the world today!

15:43:10 BingoBoingo: Not very changed from yesterday

15:43:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397765 << if you crunch the simple arithmetic re: propagation delays, it reveals that one of two things: a) whole thing is a scam, not actually intended to happen in physical reality b) collectivized, 'kolhoz' of gaming processor will be installed on street corner router cabinets, one per 100 houses or so, this will go great with ownership of actual computer being Officially forb

15:43:24 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:51:36; pete_d_out: " In the latest move, AMD unveiled its FirePro S-Series GPUs that include the company's hardware-virtualization GPU architecture, Multiuser GPU (MxGPU). The technology is aimed at such segments as virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI), remote workstations, cloud gaming and cloud computing." << is cloud gaming a thing now ? i thought it was all ipad gaming.

15:43:25 asciilifeform: idden

15:43:41 asciilifeform: and b) would put amd on the leading edge of advanced usgtronics of the Fyootoor, at last

15:44:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you think this because you don't know gaming.

15:44:41 asciilifeform: in not entirely unrelated news, old-stock opteron cpus are being sold in crates of 1,000+, for ~1-2 usd/ea. in qty.

15:45:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which kind of gaming a) uses gpu silicon b) tolerates 100ms+ wire delay ?

15:45:16 mircea_popescu: i dunno how familiar you are with ipad/android on one hand, and steam and derivatives on the other ; but amd's ploy is plainly to make a hardware-sum-of-these.

15:45:31 mircea_popescu: it won't work, for many reasons, but they are desperate so reaching out for stevejobian straws.

15:45:32 asciilifeform: no but think. whole point of gpu is acceleration

15:45:57 mircea_popescu: ipad gaming, that kind of gaming.

15:46:01 asciilifeform: it has no purpose (when used as prescribed) aside from throwing pixels on a screen in real time

15:46:06 asciilifeform: ~in real time~

15:46:11 mircea_popescu: there's a large segment of idiots that moved to "eye candy slowly" paradigm

15:46:14 asciilifeform: not 100ms later

15:46:19 mircea_popescu: no real time exists anywhere near anything apple.

15:46:32 asciilifeform: idk i saw a perfectly fine 'doom' running on ipad

15:46:42 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes & his hipster friends are happy to wait 30 s for a webmail screen to load

15:46:51 mircea_popescu: that you might have, now go play angry birds.

15:47:22 asciilifeform: iirc that's a '80s-style 2d arcade thing

15:47:26 mircea_popescu: even the notion of "pvp" has been perverted into "pick a team out of this list and cpu will play it for you - thereby you're attacking another player"

15:47:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. this is what they do, because this is what the mob wants, because mob is mentally retarded. PRETTIFY angry birds!

15:47:51 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked Angry Birds runs in most turd browsers with user agent set to chrome

15:47:55 asciilifeform: game began and ended with msdos for me

15:48:15 asciilifeform: fortunately there are more wonderful dos titles than i have expected life left

15:48:28 *: shinohai imagines asciilifeform playing the Oregon Trail still ....

15:48:41 asciilifeform: 'you have died of death, please play again'

15:48:53 asciilifeform: when i say dos, i mean '90s dos.

15:48:56 asciilifeform: not dark age.

15:49:08 mircea_popescu: yes, this is fine and good, i'm just saying the reasons they do what they do are outside of your experience.

15:49:18 asciilifeform: probably. but nobody cancelled speed of light.

15:49:35 mircea_popescu: basically [a segment of] gaming has turned into "gimme a minimally interactive tv show"

15:49:51 asciilifeform: this began in '90s with the appearance of cdrom

15:49:57 asciilifeform: and continued.

15:49:58 mircea_popescu: the trend is evident enoughj that fucking southpark mocked the tendency of kids to prefer to watch youtube vids of other people playing their games.

15:50:13 mircea_popescu: much like their parents much prefer to watch video footage of other [black, preferably] men fucking their wives.

15:50:13 asciilifeform: took a giant leap forward with the extinction of the intelligent, discerning game consumer

15:50:44 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, something like "gpu-powered ipad game, 100ms delayed" is a great competition for cable tv

15:50:45 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: South Park's "Stick of Truth" pretty much set the bar for interactive TV sold as game

15:51:13 mircea_popescu: as social media and general laziness drove the cost of producing tv shows why the fuck up, forcing ever present decreases in quality,

15:51:33 mircea_popescu: it's feasible average consumer would prefer to watch visually upgraded angry birds on amd hardware to watching another talkshow.

15:52:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397780 << straight to your local welding shop, pete_d_out, and fill up yer dewar with ln2, this is an ancient recipe

15:52:37 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:59:04; pete_d_out: fuck, i'd totally run a 10 ghz pentium. not like i pay for leccy.

15:53:05 asciilifeform: (it doesn't go straight on the cpu, no, will crack the mb and drown in condensation. it goes in the tank through which you pump the oil.)

15:53:05 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2016/thats-right-time-to-move-on-please-do-bitcoin-is-really-not-for-you/#comment-116450 << does anyone understand what this fellow is saying ?

15:53:06 assbot: That's right, time to move on. Please do. Bitcoin is really not for you. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nUh3nN )

15:53:28 mircea_popescu: quoted here because my spamthing identified it as legit, and i had do to a triple taker and im STILL not convinced this is not a spam script.

15:53:39 asciilifeform: spam.

15:53:45 mircea_popescu: how do you know ?

15:53:49 mircea_popescu: i gotta train this machine.

15:54:40 BingoBoingo: Phillipino on acid, no real way to mechanically filter

15:54:49 asciilifeform: l0l reads sorta like an actual mentally defective human doesnnit

15:54:52 adlai: > Blocksteams

15:55:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gotta be defective human

15:55:09 mircea_popescu: dude i have no idea, might be cultural barrier.

15:55:16 mircea_popescu: maybe that's how you'rte supposed to speak in indian.

15:55:23 mircea_popescu: one of the 7000 of them out there anyway.

15:55:37 BingoBoingo: Actually does look like maybe a poorly hand corrected google translate

15:55:37 mircea_popescu: more languages spoken in india than languages spoken in total.

15:56:07 mircea_popescu: anyway, it includes one link, and that link does not work.

15:56:31 asciilifeform: 'why did 33 crores (330M) of gods never cough up a flush toilet?' -- uncle al

15:56:46 mircea_popescu: i happen to have an answer for that.

15:56:46 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's a personal landing page site done in Angular.js so invisible to sane browsers

15:56:58 mircea_popescu: the lords had women to lick their asshole clean ; the rest of the world can go hang.

15:57:21 mircea_popescu: i am not overall so convinced clasical eastern despotisms were so very wrong. yes provably wrong, but then again so is the west.

15:57:24 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397806 << I saw mention of nist public rng thing

15:57:24 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 15:33:16; asciilifeform: i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.

15:58:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not so much 'wrong' as have obvious engineering limits. just as the west has own, aha

15:58:25 BingoBoingo: I dunno about provably wrong. Giving Hegel a spin has me feeling rather favorable to the classical eastern despotisms he shat on.

15:58:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea being then that perhaps with better management.,..

15:58:38 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397812 recommended in gpg-users ml. needs moar stuff sticking out the sides

15:58:38 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 15:35:08; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397712 << holy FUCK what a steaming crock of shit. where does punkman find these ?

15:59:10 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wanted to show you what i see, but archive.is hanged for 30s + on GET https://176651799.log.optimizely.com/event?a=176651799&d=176651799&y=false&src=js&s177247141=false&s177238534=gc&s177274055=direct&tsent=1454774294.31&n=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2F&u=oeu1454774294298r0.48049287940375507&wxhr=true&time=1454774294.309&f=2389180153&g=&cx2=a0df6d22

15:59:14 mircea_popescu: make that more like 2 minutes.

15:59:22 BingoBoingo: Anyways Qntra had its not sure if spam comment http://qntra.net/2016/02/intel-chips-to-get-slower/#comment-45062

15:59:23 assbot: Intel: Chips To Get Slower | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ4Z2 )

15:59:24 mircea_popescu: hey everyone : you NEEEEED!!!11 optimizely.com

15:59:31 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's what angular.js does

15:59:32 mircea_popescu: they'll fuck up your pageloads! no need to fuck them up youselves!

15:59:37 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397829 << goes well with http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal-to-coding-appalachian-miners-getting-a-fresh-start

15:59:37 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 15:40:01; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << work in moar webdev, aha

15:59:39 assbot: Appalachian Miners Are Learning to Code - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ3oa )

15:59:54 BingoBoingo: It's a mindset

16:00:00 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://archive.is/KU3op << nothing there.

16:00:01 assbot: about.me | your personal homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ6QG )

16:00:25 mircea_popescu: why the fuck would i want to send people to a landing page "aboput me" where someone else advertises other fucking idiots.

16:00:28 mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck.

16:00:44 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that seems like a reference to something in fraudsters.

16:01:05 BingoBoingo: There would be something there if the javascript was allowed 3 virgin afghan goats and a solstice with which to load

16:01:25 BingoBoingo: Ah

16:04:53 mircea_popescu: !up Peter00

16:04:54 mircea_popescu: "After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Now, as he looks for a job following a layoff, he finds that salary success a burden."

16:04:56 mircea_popescu: bwahahaha.

16:05:13 mircea_popescu: this whole "overqualified" thing is a very peculiar usg instrument of lizardlet punishment.

16:05:34 mircea_popescu: kinda like the soviet equivalent, "oh, so you got kicked out of your party commission thing ? no, you can't have a job. because fuck you, that's why"

16:05:59 mircea_popescu: god forbid everyone in wash dc goes "fuck you, fix the office policies or else ima be a carpenter"

16:07:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397707 << curious if anyone knows how this looked back when the us was an ascending rather than a falling star. say 1880, or 1950.

16:07:07 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 08:40:04; punkman: http://assets.bwbx.io/images/ioXhw1XZQPAo/v1/-1x-1.png

16:08:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397725 << i don't get it, what is wrong with this ?

16:08:40 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 12:52:40; BingoBoingo: "The decision comes as the NCAA continues to investigate Katina Powell?s claims that she and other escorts were paid thousands of dollars and given game tickets by former basketball staffer Andre McGee in exchange for dancing for and having sex with U of L players and recruits from 2010-14. The NCAA could still levy further sanctions on U of L in addition to the self-imposed penalty, but university pres

16:08:47 mircea_popescu: if i were him i'd fucking advertise it.

16:08:56 mircea_popescu: "come play for our team, free hookers buffet at lunch"

16:09:04 mircea_popescu: it is mostly a black kids' thing, neh ?

16:09:14 mircea_popescu: how the fuck are you to compete with rappers.

16:09:17 BingoBoingo: What's wrong is the preemptive punishment

16:09:49 mircea_popescu: "thousands of dollars" ? earlier "electrical engineer" derp apparently made "low six figures", ie, 1/100 of what a house costs.

16:10:12 BingoBoingo: Team just up and punishes itself.

16:10:13 mircea_popescu: what the fuck, whore budget for us tv sports team should be in the hundred mil a year sorta thing.

16:10:24 mircea_popescu: what is wrong with these people ?

16:10:32 BingoBoingo: Everything is wrong with them

16:11:31 mircea_popescu: in vaguely related lulz : romanian women are sane ; as a result they're all over europe fucking the shit out of everything that moves ; as a result butthurt euroheads don't want to extend schengen zone to romania unless it "controils the problem" ;

16:11:37 mircea_popescu: as a result romania decides to legalize prostitution.

16:11:54 mircea_popescu: "why the fuck send the whores there so you make most of the money and still bitch about it ? instead come here, pay 10x as much and we keep it all"

16:12:00 mircea_popescu: idiot is as idiot does.

16:13:58 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397806 << it sounds like witchcraft/divination to me; I burned my yarrow stalks and i ching books over this

16:13:58 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 15:33:16; asciilifeform: i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.

16:14:31 danielpbarron: and on the topic of ipad/phone games. Recently I bought the 'Catan' app after my brother showed me this board game. It's notbad.jpg

16:16:03 danielpbarron: turn based, so latency isn't an issue

16:21:29 mircea_popescu: in other news, banana and peach smoothie kicks ass.

16:21:53 mircea_popescu: settlers of catan is that danielpbarron ?

16:22:14 danielpbarron: yes

16:22:48 danielpbarron: i squeaked out a victory against 2 people and a bot last night; came down to dueling knight cards, and I had more :D

16:22:58 mircea_popescu: cool

16:23:28 mircea_popescu: i played a game of poker with some local whores last night, busted my million within an hour.

16:23:32 mircea_popescu: in 40k rebuys!

16:23:39 danielpbarron: ..

16:24:06 danielpbarron: what is the unit of account here? argentine funny money?

16:24:20 mircea_popescu: ah the funniest thing : they wouldn't play poker. they wanted to play IPAD APP POKER!

16:24:32 mircea_popescu: so we all sat there with tables playing "poker" for a while.

16:24:49 mircea_popescu: so negotiable value of ~0, but i guess fun.

16:24:58 danielpbarron: it probably suffers from the same problem as catan : bad rng

16:25:43 danielpbarron: the catan app at least has a "stack" dice mode where you can get even distribution if not actual randomness

16:25:44 mircea_popescu: well it suffers from the problem of bored waitress (shop girl / whore / whatever), they get into these fixations vaguely reminescent of "la pie a une manie : elle volle tout ce qui brille"

16:26:06 mircea_popescu: anyway, they all had billions in ipad poker money and got some sort of bonus or whatever for inviting new players.

16:27:38 mircea_popescu: "agreed. i like allan as a friend. to meet him you would probably like him too. he isnt nuts in general like many are. i have sat in on a few court dates that cant be brought up on here. allan and his family got shafted. that put al in a hard spot and drove his theories to what we have now. there was no reason for his kids to be taken. if there was i would gladly say so. in a way the courts created allan the vexatious.

16:27:38 mircea_popescu: he even tried the lawyer route for the sake of the children but the families could not afford it for long."

16:27:39 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:27:59 mircea_popescu: OF FUCKING COURSE the courts created the vexatious. what else created it, basil plants ?

16:28:30 mircea_popescu: but somehow it is ok to say "the presence of whores promotes disease", but conventionally not ok to say "the presence of courts promotes vexation".

16:29:12 mircea_popescu: sorta like in the early colonies it was ok to say "tomatoes are poisonous" and nobody was supposed to notice that "Eating off lead plates because you wanna be as cool as the europeans eating off silver but are poor and stupid is still a bad plan".

16:30:01 mircea_popescu: "i can only say so much for a few reasons. first allan is my friend. we dont agree on many points but this does not mean i care to make any assumptions about his beliefs on law and governance or his personal life. second there is a publication ban on things which i hold first hand knowledge of. i belive those cases were sealed as a cover up of what actually went on. there is nothing anyone will write here that will cha

16:30:01 mircea_popescu: nge that. i was actually there. i will say i have seen no judge, crown, or family services member with the best interest of the children in mind (in this case). and that is a hard fact.

16:30:01 mircea_popescu: and i barely see the point of this discussion as we are not allowed by operation of law to discuss many relevant points to the story. i think you could discuss much without including any name. but it does not show the why of allan filing and trying the way he does. if i was him i would have no faith in the courts at all.

16:30:04 mircea_popescu: i can only speak here to clarify certain misgivings about my friend. or i will violate the publication ban as it all links together."

16:30:09 mircea_popescu: and yet the derp still actually upholds the nonsense.

16:30:26 mircea_popescu: dude... fuck delusional "courts bans". no court has the power to prevent public communication OF ANYTHING.

16:30:29 mircea_popescu: and in any manner.

16:33:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << wasn't it just last year the vc circus was special pleading up and down the ying-yang that there's a horrible unmeetable demand ?

16:33:13 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.

16:33:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397768 << oh it was in the logs already.

16:33:56 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:52:23; BingoBoingo: Cloud gaming is how they suppose they will feed iPads 3D graphics

16:34:03 mircea_popescu: aite, BingoBoingo has it lol.

16:34:08 BingoBoingo: yeah

16:34:22 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] “Wouldn’t it be great if it did?” - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/06/6907/

16:35:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397779 << yes, up until mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is a thing.

16:35:00 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:58:34; pete_d_out: speaking of power consumption and moore's law, i hadn't realised that intel had claimed that the ~pentium 4~ would reach 10 ghz, nor that they actually manufactured the p4 at 3.8 ghz... in 2008. the only reason higher power outputs weren't produced en masse was that, apparently, the chips were already consuming 130w at 3.8 ghz and power consumption scaled linearly from there.

16:35:08 mircea_popescu: after mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is no more.

16:35:18 mircea_popescu: this is all coincidence and has exactly nothing to do with mp, of course.

16:35:29 mircea_popescu: then again, history is written by the coincidentors.

16:36:52 mircea_popescu: o look at that, bb's story still on slashdot first page.

16:37:09 mircea_popescu: penultimate item. how long was it now lessee

16:39:24 mircea_popescu: 19ish to 14ish let's say, about 19 hours. the net value of being a majorily contested news item on slashdot first page is ~3500 unique visitors, ~4500 pages read for an average of 1.28 (or in practice, using the 1% rule, ~3 people read the news item and left, ~300 people read 3-4 pages each and may be back).

16:40:42 mircea_popescu: you can buy the same results from google for ~ 1-300 bucks, and seeing how slashdot has 15 items per first page and apparently a new set daily, the upper bound of its productive value would then be somewhere between 45000 and say 100k per month.

16:40:59 mircea_popescu: of course you can get the exact same also free, but then again that requires "skill".

16:41:14 BingoBoingo: So It's about 25% of what it was in early 2013 and exactly what it was in late 2013

16:44:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "- He says current block ciphers suck. Why? It doesn't really become clear from the discussion, which seems to be between two people who have heard a little bit about cryptography, and are trying to outdo each other in what little knowledge they have."

16:45:04 mircea_popescu: see alf ? you don't know things!

16:46:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397943 << house costs 10M ?!

16:46:38 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:09:49; mircea_popescu: "thousands of dollars" ? earlier "electrical engineer" derp apparently made "low six figures", ie, 1/100 of what a house costs.

16:46:40 mircea_popescu: from same person, five minutes later, "Wait. 'Uses a 64 kbyte key' - is he mad? Does he realize the trouble he will have to go through when he has to transport over a network, or do a key agreement on, keys of that size?"

16:46:52 mircea_popescu: movingkeys over the wire!

16:46:58 mircea_popescu: what little knowledge we have!

16:47:02 mircea_popescu: this is better than the circus.

16:47:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the 100k is a salary, 100 years of that buys you a house where your job is. you denying this ?

16:47:45 mircea_popescu: 10m pre-tax, pre interest. worth diddly.

16:47:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397955 << thread was about gpu. do you understand what gpu is and is for ?

16:47:45 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:16:03; danielpbarron: turn based, so latency isn't an issue

16:48:09 mircea_popescu: and now my dear friends, ima be off to send keys over wires. bbl.

16:49:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397983 << actually in anglo world it is routine for a prisoner to be held incommunicado. handy publication ban of whatever you like.

16:49:45 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:30:26; mircea_popescu: dude... fuck delusional "courts bans". no court has the power to prevent public communication OF ANYTHING.

16:50:13 mod6: mornin'

16:50:18 mircea_popescu: and it is routine for rapists to kill their victims, in same anglo world. what of it ?

16:50:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397985 << there is an eternal unmet demand of folks who will do $work for ~$free. hence indians imported, etc.

16:50:24 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:33:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << wasn't it just last year the vc circus was special pleading up and down the ying-yang that there's a horrible unmeetable demand ?

16:50:28 mircea_popescu: heya mod6

16:50:38 mod6: :]

16:50:47 asciilifeform: there is NEVER any shortage of folks who will do $work for $maxint. they will fly down from mars if you pay enough.

16:50:59 mircea_popescu: I think I know what (s)he is talking about - it's similar to this one https://vimeo.com/7125141 [vimeo.com] , and involves MP breaking down in the face of confrontation. Not necessarily crying per se, but he acts like a kid who has been told he can't go out and play until he eats his broccoli. Might even be the same event, but this video was put out by MP and is edited to make MP look good, at least in his own eyes. <<

16:51:00 assbot: Mircea Popescu - Sesiune training Birda, Timis on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1nPgJpL )

16:51:00 mircea_popescu: i dun understand all this coloring.

16:51:12 mircea_popescu: what exactly is "breakinjg down" about me telling some random farmer at political rally why he can't have living wage ?

16:51:32 mircea_popescu: there's all this constant "oh i know why this person that's better than me did what he did, let me tell you!" bullshit.

16:51:43 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397992 << mno, it was quite readily dead in '07 and iirc apparent to most literate folk

16:51:43 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:35:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397779 << yes, up until mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is a thing.

16:51:57 mircea_popescu: apparently i'm "self exiled to argentina" because i'm fucking local now. apparently my slaves are "whores" because hey, "it's unfair" or whatever.

16:52:00 asciilifeform: what there ~was~ is some vague 'hope of comeback' from magical wunderwaffen fabrication tech

16:52:02 mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with people already.

16:52:09 asciilifeform: which - mega-unsurprise - never materialized

16:52:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform link me please.

16:52:37 mircea_popescu: i wish to see place where person in position of management/responsibility makes decision and publicly backs it by plain statement that moore law's a delusion.

16:53:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398004 << this is glorious, can we get the knowing-things fella in here somehow ?

16:53:00 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:45:04; mircea_popescu: see alf ? you don't know things!

16:53:03 asciilifeform: we could really use one

16:53:23 mircea_popescu: well... i suppose if you find prior art re moore's law ima buy slashdot and redirect it to logs.

16:54:06 BingoBoingo: It's amazing the people still around https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012359.html

16:54:06 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

16:54:08 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Increase block size limit to 2 megabytes ... ( http://bit.ly/1ofAg33 )

16:54:19 mircea_popescu: ahaha this is best one yet.

16:54:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i saw the 'multicore' fad as more or less equivalent to a public proclamation of 'moore's law is dead'

16:54:50 asciilifeform: but perhaps this is not quite what mircea_popescu had in mind

16:55:01 mircea_popescu: derp #1 : "What is wrong with existing block ciphers like AES? AES has been in widespread use for over a decade and to the best of my knowledge, there is still no practical attack on it (unless someone has built a working quantum computer and not told anyone about it). Its totally free of patents and IP issues. Its been implemented in a huge variety of hardware and software (including the Intel CPU that I am using to m

16:55:01 mircea_popescu: ake this postining). Even the NSA trusts AES enough to certify it for use protecting top secret information."

16:55:08 mircea_popescu: derp #2 : Nothing. The guy is just a fool who believes that bigger block size is better. He's a very obvious sufferer of the Dunning Kruger effect [wikipedia.org]

16:55:12 mircea_popescu: FANCY THAT!

16:55:21 mircea_popescu: dude wasn't slashdot supposed to be made out of informed people and whatnot ?

16:55:46 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323 << obligatory re: 'aes is certified'

16:55:47 assbot: Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name. ... ( http://bit.ly/1gZ2mwl )

16:55:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform finding threads for events after the event is a fun sort of historical game. nevertheless, the events are the events.

16:56:35 asciilifeform: now what i don't grasp is how the bitcoin block size thing wormed its way into that thread

16:56:37 asciilifeform: from where?

16:56:52 asciilifeform: what, word 'block' does not even exist for these folk outside of bitcoin terminology ?

16:56:56 mircea_popescu: they decided that the true reason (tm) must be workfunction-something.

16:57:05 mircea_popescu: but yeah, prolly free association.

16:57:36 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> apparently i'm "self exiled to argentina" because i'm fucking local now. << I did that troll

16:57:42 mircea_popescu: ah!

16:57:48 mircea_popescu: o wow, this is like 4chan now ?

16:58:06 BingoBoingo: Kinda

16:58:13 BingoBoingo: With less porn

16:58:17 mircea_popescu: sadly.

16:58:49 mircea_popescu: i remember the days, back when the mothers of the current crop of internet kids were still sucking cock on public grounds, that slashdot was really cool.

16:59:08 asciilifeform: not so much 'cool' as 'one of the only few things that there were'

16:59:13 mircea_popescu: then again i suppose there's some middle aged lawyers somewhere that remember the days facebook was really cool.

16:59:16 BingoBoingo: Well, the taco commander had to get paid

16:59:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is what cool means.

16:59:45 asciilifeform: the oasis may be crowded and full of shit but is still oasis

17:00:06 mircea_popescu: you have to understand cool is a political concept, much like "declase" in french salon world of 1800.

17:00:31 mircea_popescu: "if you make the list of places, and cross out the places where you woujldn't want to be seen, the result is the list of cool places"

17:03:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398011 << closer to 10. ~unless~ you use my magic formula and compute using ~the money you have left over to actually pay for the thing~

17:03:07 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:47:26; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the 100k is a salary, 100 years of that buys you a house where your job is. you denying this ?

17:04:27 asciilifeform: in which case you get the ridiculous american number of 30. which assumes an ideal spherical horse of an empire where the chump actually keeps getting that 100k for 30 years, and it isn't eaten away at by spiraling costs of fuel, food, medical, etc.

17:04:44 asciilifeform: (and, as per earlier thread, unemployment)

17:07:04 asciilifeform: which turns into a mathematically plausible but physically-ludicrous discussion akin to 'candle burning for 100 years will move a ferrari 1km forward'

17:07:08 asciilifeform: find me this candle.

17:07:36 asciilifeform: and the eternal, unrusting ferrari on the 100 year track, slowly creeping.

17:07:48 BingoBoingo: AHA, Like motorcarriage powered by radiothermal generator

17:08:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you can get a 1-3kW rtg

17:08:06 asciilifeform: for phreeeeee!

17:08:21 BingoBoingo: But weighs car down how much?

17:08:22 asciilifeform: catch is, you will have to smuggle it out of kamchatka by rowboat

17:08:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a tonne or two

17:09:17 asciilifeform: this output would correspond to ~ 1-3 horses.

17:09:28 asciilifeform: which puts you right where you probably wanted to be.

17:10:04 asciilifeform: bonus, the carriage never gets cold...

17:10:04 BingoBoingo: So six ton golf car roughly after fending off volcanoes and bears with oars from boat

17:10:14 BingoBoingo: *golf cart

17:11:56 asciilifeform: to briefly return to the cipher thread,

17:12:23 asciilifeform: the major boojum re: asking for (as i asked for) a cipher that has an actual mathematical proof of security, is that there is precisely one such known,

17:12:24 asciilifeform: otp.

17:12:41 asciilifeform: afaik no effort to produce another has ever yielded anything.

17:12:58 asciilifeform: (if it had, it is a very well-kept secret, better kept than, e.g., nuke etc)

17:14:06 asciilifeform: (the otp proof is kindergarten-level - the ciphertext tells you nothing at all - as in 0 bits - about the key or the plaintext)

17:14:40 asciilifeform: given as it literally equals key xor plaintext.

17:15:34 asciilifeform: if i tell you that X xor Y == 1, you cannot infer X and Y, only that one is 1 and other is 0

17:15:46 asciilifeform: qed.

17:17:35 asciilifeform: in any ciphersystem ~other~ than otp, the ciphertext carries, theoretically, ~some~ information re: the key.

17:17:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00056211 = 2.2203 BTC [+] {2}

17:18:25 asciilifeform: now one could try to prove that extracting this information usefully is computationally intractable. but this is never been publicly done.

17:18:43 asciilifeform: there are charlatans who will happily help you self-delude that it has been done, however.

17:18:47 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: dunno if this was in logs. but why is the "crypto comoonity" opposed to RSA?

17:18:55 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: guess why.

17:19:08 thestringpuller: every netsec guy at my coal mine is like "RSA is bad don't use it mmmkay. ECC please"

17:19:36 thestringpuller: i figure it's disinformation. but who am I to argue with "crypto experts!!!11" and such

17:21:34 asciilifeform: partly http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-01-2016#1382752

17:21:34 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 15:35:48; asciilifeform: problem is that one doesn't get to 'make a name' in academe as 'cryptographer' by pushing rsa.

17:22:27 asciilifeform: partly that ecc systems are poorly understood and trivial to trapdoor and kleptographically diddle, very usg-friendly

17:23:16 asciilifeform: (find me ~one~ 'netsec' tard who can explain how the curves are chosen)

17:26:16 thestringpuller: an exercise for the reader is always a good exercise. I'll see what 'netsec' tards at work say to that question.

17:29:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> otp. << if the key is 64kb, technically otp would work fine for message up to 64kb.

17:29:27 mircea_popescu: which... i dun recall the last time i used a message longer

17:29:41 mircea_popescu: POINT BEING that in order to justify his oats, horse better pull cart more than donkey.

17:30:00 mircea_popescu: so - if "cryptologists" can not produce what i ask of them - their wives, to the brothel, they themselves to the mines, for fraud.

17:30:12 mircea_popescu: i don't need "experts" and "universities" to tell me 1800 state of the art.

17:31:10 asciilifeform: otp is ww1 state of the art.

17:31:18 asciilifeform: srsly

17:31:24 mircea_popescu: iirc it was known afore.

17:31:28 asciilifeform: it was not.

17:31:41 asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu knows differently, and can show it, historians would like to know

17:32:05 asciilifeform: 'peak crypto!1111' was otp, vernam, ww1.

17:32:06 mircea_popescu: ;;google Frank Miller 1882

17:32:06 gribble: Frank Miller (cryptography) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Miller_(cryptography); One-time pad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad; Frank Miller: Inventor of the One-Time Pad [pdf] - Columbia University: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~CS4HS/talks/FrankMillerOneTimePad.pdf

17:32:11 mircea_popescu: now what ?

17:32:21 gernika: mod6: my 99996 node is wedging every 1k blocks or so. I would be happy to apply any logging or debugging patches that might be out there to help track down the problem.

17:32:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neato! turns out otp has its very own lilienfeld

17:32:38 mircea_popescu: :)

17:32:52 asciilifeform: (for n00bz, lilienfeld invented transistor in the '20s)

17:33:01 asciilifeform: ^ but never made one

17:33:17 mircea_popescu: well... guy made it alright.

17:33:24 mircea_popescu: was telegraphy application

17:33:26 asciilifeform: (but described in workable detail how to make, and not, e.g., davinci style)

17:34:12 asciilifeform: 'Although in theory Miller can claim priority, reality is more complex. As will be explained below, it is quite unlikely that either he or anyone else ever used his system for real messages; in fact, it is unclear if anyone other than he and his friends and family ever knew of its existence. That said, there are some possible links to Mauborgne. It thus remains unclear who should be credited with effectively inventing the one-

17:34:12 asciilifeform: time pad.'

17:34:19 asciilifeform: lulzy, very very lilienfeld.

17:34:20 gernika: or perhaps this is one of those "hands of the drowning" situations. bleh. C++ here I come.

17:34:36 asciilifeform: gernika: wedging ~how~ ?

17:34:40 asciilifeform: what is in the logs ?

17:34:50 asciilifeform: what is the behaviour ? does it respond to rpc ?

17:34:54 asciilifeform: is there network traffic ?

17:35:23 asciilifeform: long before you 'c++', why not try basic naked eye observations.

17:36:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398118 << it remains a challenge to get folks to produce things to scratch your itches when you aren't the one paying.

17:36:59 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 17:30:00; mircea_popescu: so - if "cryptologists" can not produce what i ask of them - their wives, to the brothel, they themselves to the mines, for fraud.

17:37:24 mircea_popescu: "real messages" ? cmon.

17:37:26 asciilifeform: i, for instance, would like a boeing. but it does not surprise me that boeings continue to belong to folks who pay for'em

17:37:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a difference between making a boeing for pay and making a cipher for pay.

17:37:55 mircea_popescu: i can inspect other boeings that were made, including by the people that trained you.

17:38:01 mircea_popescu: show me this previous work in the field.

17:38:10 mircea_popescu: otherwise, cryptographer === magician.

17:38:14 asciilifeform: there is none, because charlatanry.

17:38:16 mircea_popescu: i'll believe you do X when i see X.

17:38:17 mircea_popescu: so then.

17:38:28 mircea_popescu: boeing is exactly unrelated to this.

17:40:04 gernika: asciilifeform: http://www.exusiae.com/shared/debug.log - I am not sure what a useful summarization of what is in the log would be.

17:40:30 asciilifeform: my point was that if you want astronomy, and all you have to work with is astrologers, the only possible thing that could ever work is a) wait 1000 years, be very patient or b) track down promising ones and cut them loose from day job assembling horoscopes

17:40:41 mircea_popescu: neither a nor b.

17:40:52 asciilifeform: i suppose there is c) shout into the dark

17:40:55 mircea_popescu: explain the requirement, offer fame and a little fortune. that's the only one path.

17:41:04 asciilifeform: l0l fortune

17:41:05 gernika: asciilifeform: Since I've already shutdown the node, I can't answer your other questions at this time. I will once I've started it up again and it re-wedges (i.e. no new accepted blocks for 12+ hours)

17:41:05 mircea_popescu: there's no way to extrinsically motivate astrologers to become astronomers.

17:41:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not say 'motivate', but enable existing motivated.

17:41:29 mod6: i don't think a billion units is lulzy at all.

17:41:32 mircea_popescu: nope.

17:41:38 mircea_popescu: and stop dreaming about the liv ing wage

17:41:47 mircea_popescu: the world owes you nothing. now go die, in any manner you choose for yourself.

17:41:54 mircea_popescu: no backsies, to keepsies, no "yes buts"

17:43:04 mod6: gernika: be sure to capture logs. we've seen wedges in the past, and they hvae some distinct tell tale signs in the logs.

17:43:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu laughs at warez aficionados but then wants the things he wants, to fall from the sky for phree

17:43:43 mod6: also, which block was the last accepted? i.e., which block was it grinding on?

17:44:12 mircea_popescu: i don't WANT anything.

17:44:15 mircea_popescu: i already have otp.

17:44:25 mircea_popescu: someone WANTS to be a cryptographer, THAT SOMEONE better be a cryptographer.

17:44:27 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu wanted a non-otp that demonstrably doesn't suck

17:44:34 mircea_popescu: otherwise, whores and miners are abundant and i couldn't care less.

17:44:37 mircea_popescu: no.

17:44:46 mircea_popescu: i GRACIOUSLY offered an opportunity

17:44:49 mircea_popescu: let's not confuse things.

17:45:01 asciilifeform: this is advanced dirigible algebra, prolly beyond my peanut brain.

17:45:20 asciilifeform: i'ma let it be

17:45:22 mircea_popescu: whether workable cipher materializes or not does not decide if mp is mp.

17:45:31 mircea_popescu: it DOES decide whether ~anyone~ is a cryptographer or not, however.

17:45:36 mircea_popescu: so that's where that sits.

17:45:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu did learn a useful fact, if he had not already known it, namely that... there are not yet cryptographers

17:46:46 mircea_popescu: alrighty then!

17:47:15 asciilifeform: on the other hand, 'the spice must flow.' and if i hear nothing, 'g' is coming out with rsa or cramer-shoup in abusive mode.

17:47:17 mircea_popescu: any time any kid grows some balls, ars is longa, well lubed and awaits.

17:47:35 mircea_popescu: as we agreed, cramer-shoup with shared key is acceptable symmetric cipher.

17:47:58 mircea_popescu: and i'd rather that than rsa, myself.

17:48:15 mircea_popescu: if nothing else, the tiny ammt of publicity we've been doing around it pisses people off. so...

17:49:35 asciilifeform: aha!

17:50:40 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You gotta remember Bitcoin runs on drama.

17:50:48 adlai: !s drama

17:50:49 assbot: 631 results for 'drama' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=drama

17:50:59 BingoBoingo: tears > Watts

17:51:04 mircea_popescu: tearwatts!

17:51:49 adlai: if Watts were alive today, he'd prolly amend "the planet peoples" to "the planet Bitcoins"

17:51:57 mircea_popescu: so for everyone watching : s.nsa will be doing double month report next month ; s.mpoe will be filing later today.

17:52:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398158 << this log does not, unfortunately, shed any light.

17:52:29 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 17:40:04; gernika: asciilifeform: http://www.exusiae.com/shared/debug.log - I am not sure what a useful summarization of what is in the log would be.

17:52:47 asciilifeform: (no signs of 'blackhole', and node died peacefully)

17:52:56 mircea_popescu: gernika may be describing the blackhole thing ?

17:53:01 asciilifeform: not as per his log.

17:53:05 mircea_popescu: ah k

17:53:17 asciilifeform: also in the future, folks plz post last 1M max

17:53:21 asciilifeform: rather than 100M turd

17:55:32 mircea_popescu: 10k really would do in most cases

17:55:37 asciilifeform: 1k.

17:55:51 asciilifeform: generally, we are interested in the moment of truth.

17:56:29 mircea_popescu: mod6> i don't think a billion units is lulzy at all. << what is this re ?

17:56:56 ben_vulpes: cramer shoup + shared key does not reduce to...otp?

17:57:24 *: ben_vulpes not even qualified to ask questions about this probably

17:57:43 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: otp is a particular very specific thing

17:57:44 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nope

17:57:59 asciilifeform: where 1 key bit is used, precisely once, to encipher 1 bit of plaintext into 1 bit of ciphertext.

17:58:05 asciilifeform: (typically via xor operation)

17:58:40 ben_vulpes: and the need to share the key does not impose the same operational considerations as otp?

17:59:12 mircea_popescu: in the EP? general scheme of true cryptography, otp occupies a peculiar spot, equivalent to rsa's use of multiplication, where otp uses "multiplication modulo 1" or "multiplication in the binary group" for a ? function

17:59:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all symmetric ciphers share the key.

17:59:39 mircea_popescu: that's why they're symmetric.

18:00:24 ben_vulpes: what does c-s buy one over the otp in that case?

18:00:24 mod6: mircea_popescu: the reward for the Block Cipher contest

18:01:03 mircea_popescu: mod6 ah. well... negotiable insturment, you know. everyone values it as he values it. there's not exactly a dearth of offerings - notably the reward to prove qmail is buggy was 500. knuth's rewards are a dollar and change., etc

18:01:14 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes otp key as long as message.

18:01:15 BingoBoingo: Seriously now, there's people paid to believe warez doesn't lead to innovation.

18:02:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397800 << aha.

18:02:55 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 15:31:33; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397691 << fpga fabric. as i described maybe 1,001 times.

18:02:56 ben_vulpes: hm

18:03:11 punkman: is there a decent otp implementation?

18:03:48 BingoBoingo: otp implementation is as good as your random

18:03:59 BingoBoingo: And your one-timedness

18:04:17 mircea_popescu: punkman well one bash line would do it.

18:04:40 mircea_popescu: but yes, otp on top of prng is asking for trouble.

18:05:10 BingoBoingo: Once you have pad, can be done by hand

18:05:11 punkman: gotta have something to remember how much of the otp has been used

18:05:12 mircea_popescu: the whole power of the scheme comes from "everything's equally likely". yet if everything's not equally likely...

18:05:35 BingoBoingo: <punkman> gotta have something to remember how much of the otp has been used << burn the used pages of your cipherbook

18:05:42 mircea_popescu: for instance, consider the naive situation where you take 1mb worth of debug.log, and xor it against 1mb of perfect noise.

18:05:56 mircea_popescu: i will then proceed to count the As and the Ws and break your thing to a large degree.

18:06:14 mircea_popescu: esp since i know plenty of strings likely to appear in the plaintext.

18:06:20 punkman: mircea_popescu: wut

18:06:41 mircea_popescu: do the experiment for yourself, it's really a great entry thing into cryptanalysis.

18:06:54 mircea_popescu: to be studied in pairs, one kid makes the scheme, the other kid breaks the scheme, then alternate positions.

18:07:19 punkman: does perfect noise random noise?

18:07:33 mircea_popescu: perfect noise = all items have exact same probability to appear.

18:07:55 mircea_popescu: you're doing (items have varying, known probabilities to appear) xor (all items have same probability to appear).

18:08:09 mircea_popescu: the necessary result is (different items have same varying, known probabilities to appear as in the plaintext)

18:08:37 mircea_popescu: this is fundamental instruction in the importance of.... large block sizes.

18:08:56 BingoBoingo: The letter 'e' problem

18:09:02 mircea_popescu: was also a penguin linked here recently, same idea.

18:10:32 mircea_popescu: and yes as noted by alf the "pill" for this fundamental problem is to make sure that message length stays well under statistical sample.

18:10:36 mircea_popescu: nevertheless...

18:10:43 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> was also a penguin linked here recently, same idea. << Problem of using block cipher as code book

18:11:32 BingoBoingo: https://blog.filippo.io/the-ecb-penguin/

18:11:34 assbot: The ECB Penguin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdlYvh )

18:11:36 mircea_popescu: the correct way to apply otp to something like human readable text is to weigh it.

18:11:50 mircea_popescu: this is an operation very close to compression, a sort of crypto-lzw.

18:12:37 BingoBoingo: https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/POP-xsmall.png << Now with moar art

18:12:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rdm6Ld )

18:18:47 punkman: perfect noise = all items have exact same probability to appear. << do 0 and 1s not have same probability to appear in random bitstring?

18:19:31 mircea_popescu: punkman "items" is used there deliberately, to scale with the size of the block you use.

18:20:48 punkman: well say items are bits

18:21:15 mircea_popescu: let's work with a very simple example. suppose we use two bits, and suppose the plaintext is as follows : 00 appears 1 case out of 8 ; 01 appears 2 cases out of 8 ; 10 appears 4 cases out of 8 and 11 appears one case out of 8. 1+1+2+4=8.

18:22:04 mircea_popescu: now, those 4 cases out of 8 of "10" have equal chances to meet 00, 01, 10, and 11. as a result you will see :

18:22:16 mircea_popescu: 10 in 1 case out of 16 ; etc.

18:22:45 mircea_popescu: this is actually usable to describe a lot of the plain text, and exponentially more so when i know that debug.log tends to contain a lot of "connection" strings.

18:26:32 punkman: this sounds like you want to do frequency analysis on otp, but perhaps I'm just thick

18:26:57 mircea_popescu: right.

18:28:23 mircea_popescu: to be plainer : otp works better with biased pad of unknown bias than with unbiased pad of known lack of bias.

18:29:56 punkman: biased otp???

18:31:07 mircea_popescu: understand : if you collect say 1024 random bits, the chances of seeing 512 1s and 512 0s are < 1%

18:32:33 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398069 << my account was created when you needed a college email address to register, and I can tell you it was never cool. I'm pretty sure I got more use out of livejournal even

18:32:33 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 16:59:13; mircea_popescu: then again i suppose there's some middle aged lawyers somewhere that remember the days facebook was really cool.

18:32:45 mircea_popescu: a ok then.

18:33:20 danielpbarron: and yes asciilifeform i know what gpu is, just saying there are some fun games for touch devices

18:34:00 fluffypony: I'm basically addicted to Asphalt 8

18:35:32 danielpbarron: if it works as a board game it probably works on a touch screen, is probably a good general rule

18:45:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394833 << obligatory otp megathread

18:45:24 assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 01:53:21; asciilifeform: actually for many years i have thought about the ideal electric otp.

18:45:49 asciilifeform: for education of n00bz, i will briefly elaborate here.

18:45:52 punkman: isn't compressing your otp akin to whitening?

18:46:01 asciilifeform: punkman: you can't compress random crud

18:46:01 mircea_popescu: punkman compressing the plaintext, not the otp.

18:46:09 mircea_popescu: that;'s the idea there, exactly.

18:46:23 asciilifeform: there are several possible ways to die when otp

18:46:28 punkman: you can't do frequency analysis on otp

18:46:37 asciilifeform: one is to ~ever, for any reason~ reuse any portion of the pad.

18:46:53 asciilifeform: (see, e.g., famously the 'venona' case)

18:47:07 asciilifeform: another is to have anything other than a true physical rng generating the pad.

18:47:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technically speaking, the s-box cipher crapolade is an ellaborate exercise in reusingselect parts of otp

18:47:23 mircea_popescu: since they all use xor.

18:47:33 mircea_popescu: this alone should show they're deeply inadequate, but who knows fundamentals anymore.

18:47:40 asciilifeform: yet another is to have the pad surreptitiously copied by the enemy

18:47:48 asciilifeform: or captured, and then funkspieled

18:47:55 asciilifeform: (the latter is a common concern in all crypto)

18:49:08 asciilifeform: ergo the linked thread, where i posit that an ideal otp is actually a physical object which brings the bits somehow into existence one at a time

18:49:24 asciilifeform: (but, the hard part, same one on both ends

18:49:25 asciilifeform: )

18:49:31 mircea_popescu: there is another way to die using otp, and that way is to use a lengthy biased message the enemy knows most of.

18:49:45 asciilifeform: not so.

18:49:51 mircea_popescu: if i know you will be encrypting one of shakespeare's plays, otp won't save you.

18:49:56 asciilifeform: an actual otp conveys no information whatsoever via the ciphertext.

18:49:59 mircea_popescu: i'll find out which one, probabilistically.

18:50:03 asciilifeform: no.

18:50:08 asciilifeform: because they are all equally probable.

18:50:14 punkman: you would find infinite texts that make sense

18:51:01 asciilifeform: think about it. the ciphertext conveys LITERALLY NO information without the key.

18:51:14 mircea_popescu: they aren't all equally probable if i can rely on your otp being random.

18:51:20 mircea_popescu: because they are long, and structured.

18:51:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think about it, with otp, there is no reason for you to actually intercept the ciphertext

18:51:56 asciilifeform: you can guess the message just as easily with telepathy, at home.

18:52:24 mircea_popescu: are you paying me 10 btc if we do this experiment and i do guess it, "with telepathy, at home" ?

18:52:24 asciilifeform: the ciphertext literally tells you nothing useful, other than an upper bound for the length

18:52:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: specify the experiment ?

18:52:46 asciilifeform: also try randi first, he pays 1M usd

18:53:07 asciilifeform: telepaths - straight to j. randi, plox

18:53:08 mircea_popescu: you pick one of two lengthy, structured plaintexts i provide, you encrypt them with a biasless, purely random rng, and i decide which of the two you picked.

18:53:44 punkman: should add some btc to challenge :)

18:53:58 asciilifeform: i see where mircea_popescu is going

18:54:01 mircea_popescu: punkman why, he didn't feel obliged to add any btc to the other one, just bitch about the insufficiency of the sum.

18:54:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform funny how money clears the mind, even if it's too little to mention.

18:54:31 asciilifeform: specifying wtf you're doing, clears the mind

18:54:42 punkman: so you'd be able to pick the right message more than 50% of the time?

18:54:46 mircea_popescu: yes.

18:55:02 mircea_popescu: if you're making 1 mb of 01111110 and 1mb of 10000001 and then otp them against a random pad

18:55:11 mircea_popescu: you'll fucking see which one is encrypted in five minutes.

18:56:59 asciilifeform: actually this contradicts the xor lemma.

18:57:16 mircea_popescu: yeah i misstared it.

18:57:32 mircea_popescu: the examples given are not structured and readily reduce to "1" and "0", so no, it wouldn't work here.

18:57:34 mircea_popescu: nevertheless!

18:57:43 asciilifeform: in the original challenge it does also.

18:58:10 asciilifeform: let's put it this way,

18:58:23 asciilifeform: xoring the bits does not preserve their statistical distribution.

18:58:32 asciilifeform: (when xoring against properly random string)

18:59:09 asciilifeform: just as in the old thread where we demonstrate that trng XOR hitler's rng is still trng.

18:59:23 asciilifeform: so long as the latter has no feedback from the former

18:59:33 asciilifeform: (i.e. they are independent streams)

18:59:52 asciilifeform: still want to play ?

19:04:15 mircea_popescu: let me put it this way : stuff like CRC, or ECC etc, exists fundamentally out of "we guarantee you can recover the plaintext after it has been otp'd with a pad which is AT LEAST this biased"

19:04:35 mircea_popescu: how biased the otp needs to be is part of the crc spec, for instance "every 8th bit may be a 1" etc.

19:05:02 asciilifeform: this is basic theory per shannon.

19:05:07 asciilifeform: those 'bits' are still 'in there.'

19:05:08 mircea_popescu: but in general, if you do away with the requirement to recover ALL of the plaintext,

19:05:22 mircea_popescu: and if the plaintext is long enough, this is equivalent to a requirement of minimal bias in the otp pad.

19:05:28 asciilifeform: my contention is that in your case 'recover' == guess.

19:05:45 asciilifeform: if you would like to specify this game in a way that doesn't reduce to gambling on coin flips, i will play.

19:05:47 asciilifeform: for 10 b. even.

19:07:33 thestringpuller: ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://dpaste.com/0MGQE6P.txt

19:07:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:08:14 asciilifeform: i will ~happily~ play with mircea_popescu if he insists on betting against arithmetic...

19:08:35 asciilifeform: (perhaps he is trying to teach us something ?)

19:08:37 mircea_popescu: you don't see the crc discussion sufficient for our purposes ?

19:08:48 asciilifeform: nope. because i read shannon.

19:09:18 asciilifeform: crc is built to survive a small fixed percentage (typically 1 in 9) of flipped bits.

19:09:19 asciilifeform: not ALL.

19:09:32 asciilifeform: but why beat the horse? i'm willing to play !

19:10:40 asciilifeform: who wants to referee ? jurov ? kakobrekla ?

19:10:46 mircea_popescu: well, alrighty. can't turn down free moneyz.

19:10:50 mircea_popescu: why does there have to be a referee ?

19:10:53 punkman: mp makes 2 plaintexts, ascii generates 1000 otps, for each otp: picks one of the 2 plaintexts and xors with otp. mp must guess guess correctly 501?, 600? more?

19:11:02 mircea_popescu: one.

19:11:53 asciilifeform: wai wut

19:12:10 mircea_popescu: it really needn't be done over more than one try lol. srsly ? 1k ?

19:12:18 asciilifeform: i'm not playing flippsies

19:12:31 asciilifeform: gotta be a statistically standing result.

19:12:47 mircea_popescu: so basically we'll never know ?

19:12:56 asciilifeform: as in, he gets, say, 700 out of 1000

19:13:02 mircea_popescu: mk, ima bbl see if i can hack together something that satisfies the audience theoretically.

19:13:17 asciilifeform: (and it goes without saying that the plaintexts must be same length)

19:13:28 thestringpuller: and this is what #b-a is the most amazing channel on freenode

19:13:28 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

19:13:40 punkman: asciilifeform: why, would padding be a problem?

19:14:04 asciilifeform: punkman: not problem, but must specify this, otherwise somebody wins/loses on an idiot technicality that teachs nothing

19:14:13 asciilifeform: same length bitstrings.

19:14:27 asciilifeform: otherwise can immediately decode 'which one' based on length.

19:14:52 punkman: well obvs

19:15:03 asciilifeform: anyway i will play if experiment is specified such that mircea_popescu has 100:1 or less odds of winning based on pure guessing ('telepathy')

19:15:04 punkman: but even if you pad with all 0s, works

19:15:12 asciilifeform: sure.

19:15:37 thestringpuller: place your bitbets!

19:15:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice that this isn't "wins/loses". you're just giving 10 btc away, on the if.

19:15:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the if

19:16:21 mircea_popescu: that i guess your message. which i suppose necessarily carries the caveat that "must not be by chance",

19:16:30 mircea_popescu: which is why ima try and show it theoretically.

19:16:34 asciilifeform: the way i read it, the 'if' is whether mircea_popescu can demonstrate convincingly higher than chance guessatronics.

19:16:38 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:16:53 asciilifeform: aha so same rules as randi.

19:17:01 punkman: if you want to do 1, must have 1000 plaintexts instead

19:17:13 asciilifeform: no good.

19:17:16 punkman: why not

19:17:16 asciilifeform: otp doesn't get reused.

19:17:17 asciilifeform: ever.

19:17:23 asciilifeform: no two xors with one motherfucking bit.

19:17:26 asciilifeform: this is not how otp is used.

19:17:28 punkman: you pick one of 1000 plaintexts, generate one otp

19:17:39 asciilifeform: one otp bit, one xor.

19:18:00 asciilifeform: this is kindergarten material.

19:20:18 punkman: well not in kindergarten, but I did play this game on paper once

19:21:00 asciilifeform: if there is one otp key, and it gets used two or more times, with mircea_popescu controlling the input and knowing anything whatsoever about the output, he learns the key trivially.

19:21:19 mircea_popescu: well no not that.

19:21:23 asciilifeform: and anyway that was not the proposed game (because it would not be the least bit interesting)

19:22:59 punkman: I meant instead of doing 100 iterations of guess between 2 plaintexts, one iteration of guessing between 100 plaintexts

19:23:31 asciilifeform: that he gives me, and i xor over, and give back ?

19:23:41 punkman: yeah

19:23:42 asciilifeform: works

19:23:53 asciilifeform: if they are all of length L.

19:24:34 asciilifeform: (and L, trivially, is 7 bits or more.)

19:25:13 punkman: mp could choose padding rule if he doesn't want equal length

19:25:14 asciilifeform: but in practice longer, because they must be N ~distinct~ strings

19:25:24 asciilifeform: punkman: this reduces to 'same length'

19:25:32 asciilifeform: and i'm lazy, he will have to pad'em himself.

19:27:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform : Let message A consist of individual bytes counting down from FFFFFFFF ; let message B consist of individual bytes counting up from 00000000. Let the enemy xor one of these two against a random, unbiased OTP of the same length and supply the enciphered result. Take that result, and count the instances where byte n is larger than byte n+1. Take that result, and count the instances where byte n is larger t

19:27:48 mircea_popescu: han byte n-1. The larger of the two indicates the message encrypted ; the difference between these counts indicate your confidence (or the rng's bias).

19:27:50 mircea_popescu: how about that.

19:28:09 asciilifeform: so, for this variant of game, algo would be 1) mircea_popescu generates his string set, signs, deedbots; 2) i xor'em, sign, deedbot at first only the signature; 3) i post one of the xor'ed strings 4) he telepathies which one 5) i reveal my hand, which is the tarball in step 2 6) if he wins, i lose 10b, or vice-versa

19:29:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can use whatever alchemy you like...

19:29:42 mircea_popescu: o.O

19:29:45 asciilifeform: you are still playing against the xor lemma.

19:30:08 punkman: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/search?q=many+time+pad popular homework question apparently

19:30:09 assbot: Posts containing 'many time pad' - Cryptography Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pe9gKa )

19:30:09 asciilifeform: (i will happily collect the win in its stead, like that fool wanted to collect nobel for satoshi!11)

19:30:23 mircea_popescu: lol wait, collect wut ?

19:31:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the output bits - the lot of them - is necessarily as entropic as my key.

19:31:18 asciilifeform: think about it.

19:31:52 asciilifeform: work it on paper. the plaintext (payload), in xor operation, merely flips the key bit.

19:31:58 asciilifeform: (or doesn't flip.)

19:32:03 asciilifeform: it cannot create pattern.

19:32:12 mircea_popescu: for the very reason that it can't create pattern,

19:32:16 mircea_popescu: it also can't destroy it!

19:32:33 mircea_popescu: long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.

19:32:37 asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu want a free 10b or not.

19:33:27 mircea_popescu: ok i guess ima have to figure out some way to hm. hey asciilifeform , how about this deal : i pay you 10 btc of my eventual winnings, should they exist, but you make the messages and show the result. i dun have a compiler ready and nfi how you generate the described messages in bash

19:34:20 asciilifeform: see earlier recipe ('variant of game')

19:34:39 mircea_popescu: ok, brb.

19:34:59 asciilifeform: it has to be with mircea_popescu generating the magic strings, because this is how he said he will carry out the telepathy - by selecting specially-crafted biased input.

19:35:10 mircea_popescu: kk.

19:35:11 asciilifeform: (this bias, somehow, against xor lemma, surivives xoring.)

19:35:41 asciilifeform: i will suggest a handy recipe:

19:36:12 asciilifeform: 1) mircea_popescu generates 100 files, 1MB (1024^2 byte) in length each. gzips, signs, deedbots.

19:36:36 asciilifeform: 2) i xor over each of them with 1MB from a cardano rng.

19:36:57 mircea_popescu: yeh im doing it.

19:37:10 asciilifeform: 3) i select one of these, sign, and send to jurov or kakobrekla or somebody, referee

19:37:19 asciilifeform: 4) mircea_popescu tells me which of the 100 it was.

19:37:28 mircea_popescu: can just deedbot the result.

19:37:34 punkman: other variant: ascii makes 100 otps, makes 100 plaintexts, X of which are the string "mircea_popescu: long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.", then passes 100 ciphertexts to mp. mp must guess X withing some range.

19:37:39 mircea_popescu: wait, what 100 files. i generate 2 files.

19:37:40 asciilifeform: then we just learn that mircea_popescu can break sha!

19:37:41 mircea_popescu: dude wtf.

19:37:50 asciilifeform: this was punkman's variant

19:37:56 asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu generates two files, we're playing coinflipsies

19:38:03 asciilifeform: and that's no fun at all

19:38:13 mircea_popescu: you can make as many otps as you want, it's still coming out the same way o.O

19:38:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has to demonstrate greater-than-chance telepathics

19:38:35 asciilifeform: if we play with 1 set of alternatives, he has 50% chance of guessing it.

19:39:28 asciilifeform: gotta play with either my original scheme - N sets of 2-pronged - or punkman's - N files.

19:39:38 asciilifeform: demonstrates significance above chance.

19:39:43 punkman: the third variant is also ok I think

19:39:52 asciilifeform: what's the 3rd ?

19:40:56 punkman: mp must guess how many of the 100 ciphertexts are made from the string ""mircea_popescu: long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.""

19:42:15 asciilifeform: vs what

19:43:04 punkman: I guess every other string can be all 0s

19:43:18 punkman: *all the other strings

19:44:01 asciilifeform: 'how many' or 'which ones' ?

19:44:05 punkman: you'd choose

19:44:29 asciilifeform: this is then exactly isomorphic to my original.

19:50:05 asciilifeform: incidentally, the main reason i'd like a referee, is so that everybody knows that my random 'pads' were generated independently of mircea_popescu's challenge strings.

19:52:13 asciilifeform: (and that they were, hence, not crafted specifically to bulldoze whatever magical pattern he put in his strings)

19:54:21 asciilifeform: i invite the curious log reader to play the game mircea_popescu proposed with single bits, with a friend

19:54:23 asciilifeform: that is, with coin flips

19:54:31 asciilifeform: to see how ludicrous the proposition is

19:56:27 asciilifeform: the mircea_popescu side of the game can only be won if 1) rng is biased 2) he knows how

20:00:44 asciilifeform: imagine you find a coin on the street.

20:00:56 asciilifeform: to say that its previous state had any bearing on the face it is showing when you find it,

20:01:06 asciilifeform: suggests that you can magically tell its entire history of flips

20:01:27 asciilifeform: unless you are a telapath, there is nothing useful you can say about a bit which was flipped with probability 0.5.

20:01:48 asciilifeform: *telepath

20:02:12 asciilifeform: this is elementary, and if mircea_popescu comes back and tells us that he had been drinking, i will believe him, and happily forget the whole thing.

20:03:02 *: asciilifeform bbl.

20:15:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform : here we go

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: total 65500 bytes in each message.

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: assay 1 : count 32734 / 32743. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: assay 2 : count 32778 / 32775. expected 1st lower than 2nd. infirmed.

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: assay 3: count 32959 / 32964. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: assay 4 : count 32810 / 32814. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.

20:15:09 mircea_popescu: 3 out of 4 good enough for you ?

20:15:54 mircea_popescu: im too lazy to really run mb length messages etc.

20:17:16 mircea_popescu: (i used mt_rand, whatever that's worth)

20:20:27 asciilifeform: what am i looking at ?

20:20:56 mircea_popescu: the method described above, one plaintext counts up one counts down.

20:21:41 asciilifeform: all i see is that mircea_popescu won 32 games of coin-toss with himself.

20:21:50 asciilifeform: 16, rather

20:22:01 mircea_popescu: well no, 4 games of 65500 bytes each x 2 messages

20:23:14 asciilifeform: consider posting the code ?

20:28:14 asciilifeform: i'ma writin' my own, brb

20:29:31 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/otp.php for the bored

20:32:05 mircea_popescu: now, 64kb aren't that much, and the structure chosen is literally the simplest thing available for ease of implementation. nevertheless, a little DOES leak even so.

20:33:14 asciilifeform: as i said, writing own, brb

20:34:38 punkman: what's the point of public otp

20:35:21 mircea_popescu: so you can verify the program works correctly

20:35:43 mircea_popescu: first plaintext counts up from 1 ; the 2nd counts down from 65535

20:36:21 mircea_popescu: thus nth position in otp xor nth position in ciphered a must yield n and in ciphered b must yield 65535-n

20:37:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is looking at his rng bias.

20:37:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform otp bias cheifly doesn't matter here, as the same otp is delibverately used for both messages.

20:39:02 asciilifeform: it sure as fuck matters.

20:39:09 asciilifeform: or you could just skip the otp alltogether

20:39:22 mircea_popescu: looky : otp bias, message bias, same fucking story.

20:39:33 mircea_popescu: bias xor no bias = no bias xor bias.

20:40:03 mircea_popescu: which was the original fucking point that ended up in all this weird.

20:40:17 asciilifeform: (bias) xor (no bias) == (no bias).

20:40:21 asciilifeform: which is the xor lemma.

20:40:48 mircea_popescu: = less bias.

20:40:51 asciilifeform: mno.

20:41:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu finds a coin on the sidewalk.

20:41:12 asciilifeform: can he say what the ~previous~ flip was ?

20:41:13 mircea_popescu: i had no fucking idea the notion that you're supposed to debias plaintext before otping it is even controversial.

20:41:14 asciilifeform: why not ?

20:41:37 punkman: it is controversial

20:41:45 asciilifeform: ^

20:42:03 mircea_popescu: cuz i don't know ~everything~, obviously.

20:42:17 asciilifeform: i realize that it cries against every mathematical intuition, but with correctly functioning otp, it makes not a whit of difference what your plaintext is.

20:42:28 mircea_popescu: are we confusing entropy and bias here ?

20:42:36 punkman: you can't get the bitmap penguin after otp

20:42:46 asciilifeform: aha. punkman gets it.

20:45:01 asciilifeform: funnily enough, last year there was some derp who shat into mircea_popescu's comment section with 'otp doesn't work because rng might burp out N zeros and then what'

20:45:09 mircea_popescu: let me try a different aprpoach, maybe that's more comprehensible.

20:45:16 asciilifeform: but for some reason mircea_popescu understood why this is lunacy, ~then~, but not now?

20:46:35 asciilifeform: (answer, for the thick, is that your rng, if it works correctly, is EXACTLY as likely to shit out a string that xors yours to 'kill stalin at midnight with table leg' as an equivalent length string of zeros, or any other.)

20:47:14 mircea_popescu: your bias-less rng shits out n/2 ones. they go against a message containing 3/4n ones. they will flip n/2 items in the message, 3/4 of which being 1s and 1/4 being 0s. you thus end up with 3/8 old ones + 1/8 ex-zeroes for a grand total of exactly 1/2 whoa.

20:47:19 mircea_popescu: da fuck.

20:47:32 asciilifeform: ahahahahahahahaha

20:47:50 asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu ~think~ would happen here.

20:48:09 asciilifeform: !b 4

20:48:11 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09XJYNZ.txt )

20:48:11 mircea_popescu: NEVERMIND

20:48:23 asciilifeform: l0l

20:48:26 mircea_popescu: lol

20:48:54 asciilifeform: still wanna play ? mircea_popescu can put the 10 in snsa piggy, if he wishes. or we can let the matter rest.

20:49:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well the whole result here is that ~your~ 10 btc can wait for a better day.

20:49:21 asciilifeform: sure, sure, l0lz

20:50:03 *: asciilifeform polishes imaginary brass 'Arithmetik mit uns' button

20:50:23 mircea_popescu: lol

20:51:02 *: asciilifeform his work here done, off to pet pet.

20:52:21 *: mircea_popescu goes to direct men at work in different field now, having satisfactorily brought his contribution here.

20:52:37 danielpbarron: math : the ultimate aphrodisiac ?

20:55:25 punkman: /me goes look for otp-compatible MAC scheme

21:31:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4638 @ 0.00056542 = 2.6224 BTC [+]

22:26:56 mircea_popescu: !up jixei

22:28:43 mircea_popescu: ;;google B,TMSR~

22:28:43 gribble: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea ...: http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/; China's TMSR Program Presenter: https://public.ornl.gov/conferences/MSR2015/pdf/10-China's%20TMSR%20programm_HongjieXu.%20pptx.pdf; Letter to Morgen E. Peck, freelance writer | Contravex: A blog by ...: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/29/letter-to- (1 more message)

22:28:47 mircea_popescu: heh.

22:29:51 mircea_popescu: <a title='x onmouseover=window.location.href=(this.href) href=http://www.reviewsya.com style=position:absolute;left:0;top:0;width:5000px;height:5000px AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

22:29:51 mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

22:29:52 mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

22:29:57 mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

22:30:02 mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

22:30:07 mircea_popescu: rel="nofollow"></a>

22:30:23 mircea_popescu: there's 73393 of them A's, so i imagine there's some browsers out there that don't do bounds checkingproperly ?

22:36:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8662 @ 0.00056542 = 4.8977 BTC [+]

22:37:53 phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << when i was interviewing last year, was straight up told by several different companies that i should adjust my rate because i won't be able to compete in the market (that's a direct quote from on of the hr people). one company we went through several phone calls where different people were telling me that the salary requirement is a bit high, but maybe we can work something out

22:37:53 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.

22:37:53 phf: that works for all of us, i.e. my impression is that the expectation was that i would cave and take less

22:41:39 mircea_popescu: this is pretty much standard behaviour neh ?

22:42:15 mircea_popescu: trying to find out whether you know how much you're worth or not really at the very least.

22:43:02 mircea_popescu: and speaking of employment interviews, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9dp8uSZoQ1qddd4so1_1280.jpg

22:43:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nV3rJ0 )

22:43:21 phf: well, i was out of the loop for couple of years, working for hsbc, and those guys don't haggle over 50k

22:44:40 mircea_popescu: ironically, they do in their core divisions. but not about it and so forth.

22:44:45 phf: just my impression is that it's gotten particularly toxic. i.e. lower your rate, or we'll just go with somebody else

22:45:10 mircea_popescu: "if my job can be done by somebody else you absolutely should."

22:45:27 phf: right, exactly

22:45:27 mircea_popescu: then they call back and well... it's a 5% more nao. just to get the message across.

22:45:37 phf: oh i like that

22:48:05 mircea_popescu: people not doing that (because people are generally NOT qualified for the jobs they get) is the principal reason it went toxic.

22:58:21 phf: at my old jobs i used to seek out talanted devs, and during weekend drinking convince them that they should go demand a raise, it worked couple of times. those who would listen will immediately start moving up the ladder, "who would've thought". some people still reach out and tell me about their salary fights in the "i tell them go fuck themselves" kind of terms. warms my heart

22:58:55 phf: can't drink with devs anymore though, it gets boring really fast

22:59:08 mats: lol

23:01:44 ben_vulpes: christ seriously

23:03:20 ben_vulpes: whoa thestringpuller v thorough

23:03:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10340 @ 0.00056537 = 5.8459 BTC [-] {2}

23:03:55 ben_vulpes: that's going to take some reading.

23:07:15 phf: oh, a funny thing from last years interviews. i ask for a month vacation time (since 2 weeks is standard here, i just say 2 weeks pto and 2 weeks unpaid leave) written in the contract, so that there aren't any questions. during one interview guy was trying to convince me how that's bad for company and how it's a crazy thing to ask for, finally at the end he started complaining that he's been there for 5 years and was promissed friday

23:07:15 phf: work from home and they would not give it to home and that it's just life

23:11:27 gernika: /query mod6

23:16:11 ben_vulpes: phf: derps gon' derp.

23:27:00 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b38

23:37:53 asciilifeform: re: thread with phf et al: it helps to not be totally broke when negotiating

23:38:07 asciilifeform: otherwise 'take what you're given, churl, and shuddup'

23:40:01 asciilifeform: and yes, when mircea_popescu wakes up he will no doubt supply us with the mega-insight that if i have no money it is because i have no competence at anything and oughta be boiled for soap asap

23:41:02 asciilifeform: also wtf phf, every place i've ever worked will let you take whatever weeks of ~unpaid~ leave

23:41:11 asciilifeform: nobody gives a shit re unpaid leave

23:41:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398559 << l0l!

23:41:36 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 22:30:02; mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

23:41:58 asciilifeform: what was ~after~ these ?

23:42:06 asciilifeform: that there's the payload, let's have it ?

23:42:30 *: asciilifeform bbl

23:47:21 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398568 <<< "We're sorry, but your asshole just won't stretch enough to meet our rigorous employment requirements."

23:47:21 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 22:43:02; mircea_popescu: and speaking of employment interviews, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9dp8uSZoQ1qddd4so1_1280.jpg

23:50:11 mats: i get 24 sick days at this new job l0l

23:51:04 mats: and after some years, not sure when but under ten, i get 48, wtf

23:58:03 mats: ben_vulpes: i remember you suggested that i read 'Leviathan Wakes'

23:58:31 mats: there is a SyFy thing called The Expanse nao

23:59:32 mats: and its p good.