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Transcript for 07-02-2016, 905 lines:

00:01:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00056824 = 6.7621 BTC [+] {4}

00:01:51 ben_vulpes: mats: the expanse is a surprisingly high-quality-for-such-a-low-budget scifi flick

00:01:53 ben_vulpes: er, show

00:02:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00056425 = 2.6238 BTC [-] {2}

00:02:29 ben_vulpes: the nullg scenes are judiciously placed for effect most of the time

00:03:00 ben_vulpes: for instance the blood cloud that collapsed when the martian warship began its burn was pretty good

00:03:26 ben_vulpes: but the drifting thinger in the cabin of episode 7? 6? was hilariously bad.

00:03:33 ben_vulpes: mats: did you ever read the books?

00:03:54 mats: i finished Leviathan Wakes, didn't get around to the others, but i will now

00:04:04 ben_vulpes: fairly entertaining

00:04:10 ben_vulpes: no actual physics violations iirc

00:04:26 ben_vulpes: mebbe the 'stealth' tech

00:05:08 mats: i know enough physics to put my pants on in the morning

00:05:32 ben_vulpes: "and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve"

00:06:02 mats: hay, small enough sample and i can be whatever i wanna be!

00:09:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50176 @ 0.00056899 = 28.5496 BTC [+] {2}

00:10:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3924 @ 0.00057008 = 2.237 BTC [+] {2}

00:11:41 ben_vulpes: the throwaway joke mats is that the top of the bell curve is entirely average, just like putting on pants in the morning

00:12:21 mats: i got the joke, yo.

00:14:15 ben_vulpes: aight aight

00:25:13 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head?

00:25:23 ben_vulpes: not a pressing question.

00:27:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19443 @ 0.00055889 = 10.8665 BTC [-] {3}

00:30:54 shinohai: https://sandstorm.io/ <<< am I only person that thinks this is a horrible idea?

00:30:55 assbot: Sandstorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1UUh45m )

00:33:49 BingoBoingo: The nausea, if only they knew Mp doesn't have this kind of time https://archive.is/sJc9d

00:33:50 assbot: sciencehatesyou comments on Slashdot Knows Of Our ButterFiend Mircea Popescu ... ( http://bit.ly/1UUhnNy )

00:35:04 ben_vulpes: shinohai: something like that could murder the google apps system

00:35:16 ben_vulpes: no idea if that one's going to

00:41:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38453 @ 0.0005693 = 21.8913 BTC [+] {3}

00:51:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.0005703 = 25.1217 BTC [+] {2}

01:19:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29454 @ 0.00055644 = 16.3894 BTC [-] {3}

01:20:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33895 @ 0.00055769 = 18.9029 BTC [+] {2}

01:36:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00055644 = 4.9801 BTC [-]

01:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40125 @ 0.00055235 = 22.163 BTC [-] {4}

01:51:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> "and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve" <<< haha good one.

01:53:28 mircea_popescu: shinohai <<< am I only person that thinks this is a horrible idea? << i can't discern what the idea is supposed to be. glorified vps ? 9.95 a month sorta deal.

01:54:00 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's pretty flattering, in honesty. look at all the things i have time to do in a day!

01:54:17 mircea_popescu: a bit like how well traveled washington was. fucker slept in all beds ever found in new england.

01:57:59 mircea_popescu: but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/a95fe147aad2fc835bdf3710567b1c38/tumblr_nrqscruWPc1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

01:58:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/23Qwyxd )

02:04:06 mircea_popescu: !up archStanton

02:05:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00057042 = 14.0894 BTC [+] {3}

02:20:30 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is this return to copying of loglines instead of referencing the log an attempt to make life easier for the future archaeologists by not polluting the global threadspace?

02:21:00 mircea_popescu: nah, dpeends if i load from log. webpage or from the scrollback

02:21:16 mircea_popescu: i'd have thought the referencing is easier

02:22:03 ben_vulpes: sure

02:22:52 ben_vulpes: thought it might've indicated some difference in threads for archival/archaeology and emphemera

02:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00055324 = 19.64 BTC [-]

02:45:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00055735 = 13.1535 BTC [+]

02:50:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00055735 = 2.0622 BTC [+]

02:52:31 ben_vulpes: http://b-a.shithouse.tv/

02:52:32 assbot: b-a ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5SNce )

02:54:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3970 @ 0.000552 = 2.1914 BTC [-] {3}

02:55:10 danielpbarron: what in the .. who made that?

02:56:00 ben_vulpes: who could ever know

02:56:18 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: do you also try to find where the pictures on tumblr come from?

02:59:06 danielpbarron: well they don't come with 'b-a' in the name with content about blockchains

02:59:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00055057 = 24.3903 BTC [-] {3}

03:00:15 ben_vulpes: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2016-01-14/wall-street-s-straight-man-in-washington unrelolzted

03:00:17 assbot: Wall Street’s Straight Man in Washington - Bloomberg Politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5TkuN )

03:00:32 ben_vulpes: "In Washington, the committee is known as the ATM, because banks and hedge funds shower the chairman with contributions."

03:03:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24484 @ 0.00055179 = 13.51 BTC [+] {2}

03:06:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22929 @ 0.00055734 = 12.7792 BTC [+] {2}

03:07:45 ben_vulpes: today in imgurlols: "Unknown file type application/octet-stream"

03:13:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00055979 = 16.9057 BTC [+] {2}

03:18:49 ben_vulpes: one for shinohai: http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt1itiWyRx1r31wtyo1_500.jpg

03:18:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5UXIJ )

03:24:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13744 @ 0.0005598 = 7.6939 BTC [+]

03:31:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.0005598 = 9.6006 BTC [+]

03:32:57 mircea_popescu: four! http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_magwsowhhO1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

03:32:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5VQBb )

03:33:21 ben_vulpes: i count...six?

03:33:28 mircea_popescu: that's before the otp.

03:33:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, matching tops and curtains' gotta be some new sort of win.

03:45:23 phf: asciilifeform: nobody gives a shit re unpaid leave << maybe when begged for day at a time, but try taking a week of unpaid leave ~explicitly~ for vacation, and you're going to find yourself in "conversation" with hr pretty fast. putting that in contract is even trickier. it's a control issue, first and foremost

03:45:23 phf:

03:48:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39376 @ 0.0005598 = 22.0427 BTC [+]

03:50:39 ben_vulpes: all i care about is some warning

03:50:42 ben_vulpes: proportional to the time off

04:00:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00055999 = 11.0878 BTC [+] {2}

04:05:19 *: adlai is qntring up the impending diff increase, adding statistics about the "fee market"; any specific requests/suggestions?

04:07:17 adlai: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, et al ^

04:08:13 adlai: ;;bc,stats

04:08:16 gribble: Current Blocks: 397149 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 minutes and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

04:10:26 adlai: hmm, this is a bit confusing of gribble: block #397151 still uses the same difficulty. it determines the next difficulty, but the first block using the new diff is 397152

04:13:03 ben_vulpes: adlai: just out of curiosity, do you have historical mempool data?

04:13:44 adlai: kinda sorta http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2015#1043341

04:13:44 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:14:45; mike_c: mm, not quite. because order book could have been better than price history at times

04:13:55 adlai: (the relevant bits are the "mm, not quite")

04:14:26 adlai: ultimately, it doesn't matter in quite a similar manner to how past orderbook data doesn't matter

04:15:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24352 @ 0.00056325 = 13.7163 BTC [+]

04:16:08 adlai: ben_vulpes: you can scrape several months from https://bitcoinfees.github.io/#1d

04:16:09 assbot: Bitcoin Fee Estimation ... ( http://bit.ly/1nQk7AH )

04:16:14 adlai: but it's not raw data

04:21:30 ben_vulpes: myeah.

04:21:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22386 @ 0.00056471 = 12.6416 BTC [+]

04:22:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38502 @ 0.00056824 = 21.8784 BTC [+] {4}

04:44:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20792 @ 0.00056822 = 11.8144 BTC [-] {3}

04:45:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00056109 = 8.22 BTC [-] {4}

04:53:44 mircea_popescu: and in posteriority news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx6c3vAPiZ1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

04:53:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHXtoU )

04:55:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00057042 = 13.0626 BTC [+] {2}

05:01:51 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_rear

05:05:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51773 @ 0.00056966 = 29.493 BTC [-] {4}

05:07:02 mircea_popescu: "Beginning on October 3 and continuing through December 18, 2015, an unknown party accessed without authorization two cloud providers used by Gyft. This unknown party was able to view or download certain Gyft user information stored with these cloud providers and make a file containing some of that user information.

05:07:03 mircea_popescu: What Information Was Involved?

05:07:03 mircea_popescu: The information potentially accessed from the cloud providers included names, addresses, dates of birth, phone numbers, email addresses, and gift card numbers. Gift card numbers could have been used to make unauthorized purchases."

05:07:03 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398627 << precisely reactor crank - so that you ~are conscious~ of what you are doing!

05:07:03 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 00:25:13; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head?

05:07:04 mircea_popescu: herp.

05:08:53 ben_vulpes: ascii_rear: ah.

05:09:38 mircea_popescu: and in random tardstalk craft, "Stop posting that I am a scam or it is simple I can have my lawyer visit your site and send you a size and assist letter not to be slandering."

05:09:40 ben_vulpes: i don't see how this is anything other than busy work, if i'm to curate the patchdir for presses anyways.

05:09:59 ben_vulpes: perhaps though i would jump out of a plane with a mispacked parachute?

05:10:33 mircea_popescu: "by the looks of you, you already did"

05:10:47 ben_vulpes: plz no bully :(

05:10:50 mircea_popescu: lol k.

05:11:52 mircea_popescu: lettuce instead discuss isis. http://40.media.tumblr.com/91ff21b4a51443b40d0859003cb21d0b/tumblr_mt0j1rGPz21qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

05:11:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHYEEQ )

05:12:37 ben_vulpes: ascii_rear: i recall reading in the log that your vtron's implicit pressing behavior is asciibetical up to indicated head, but i'm having trouble reconciling that with other reqs i once read: that vs press longest chain, and also that vs press all usable patches. would that accurately modify to 'longest chain up to indicated head'?

05:17:49 deedbot-: [fraudsters] MPEx (S.MPOE) January 2016 Statement - http://fraudsters.com/2016/mpex-smpoe-january-2016-statement/

05:21:58 ben_vulpes: (also ascii_rear i am having trouble understanding how vdiff turns $2 [which i'd expect to be the dir] into individual files for hashing and writing into the vpatch)

05:28:49 danielpbarron: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CalfZHeXEAUOgJr.png:large "Kiss'n'Kill" featuring the "KONDOM SIMULATOR"

05:28:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHZuBq )

05:33:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2064 @ 0.00057043 = 1.1774 BTC [+] {2}

05:48:12 ben_vulpes: yeah i basically have nfi how vdiff is making the per-file hashes happen

05:48:16 ben_vulpes: C'EST UN MYSTERE

05:49:08 ben_vulpes: ^^ asciilifeform, mod6, phf, polarbeard, mircea_popescu: if any of you are willing to explain the inscrawkutable vdiff to my maleducated self i'd be much obliged

05:51:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00057043 = 4.8772 BTC [+] {2}

05:57:02 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron looks like that needs some hilfe.

05:57:13 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes just hashes the file content, what ?

05:57:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00056612 = 12.0017 BTC [-] {3}

05:59:05 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how is it disambiguated from $2, which is the dir input to diff?

05:59:37 mircea_popescu: it recurses through the dir, neh ?

05:59:49 ben_vulpes: oh because that's in the context of the awk statement and the file path is the second entry in that context?

06:00:15 ben_vulpes: keep in mind that awk is acting on the text output of diff, it's not recursing anywhere

06:00:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41556 @ 0.00056219 = 23.3624 BTC [-] {3}

06:00:48 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform ^^ i believe that i understand how vdiff works, if you'd confirm, i'd appreciate.

06:00:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:13:31 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395703 << so here's what my (unreleased, v2) vtron does: it grabs all patches and all sigs, merges them into an alphabetically sorted list, and then munches through that list attaching sigs whose name matches the previous patch to that patch. is this a blindingly stupid thing to do? i realize that it depends implicitly on the naming convention, but would like to hear about other unrealized

06:13:31 assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 21:04:13; ascii_butugychag: phf: O(N^2)

06:13:32 ben_vulpes: stupidities in the approach.

06:29:24 ben_vulpes: also of note vdiff does not work under macos

06:29:49 ben_vulpes: craps down 'false' instead of *hash*

06:30:02 ben_vulpes: *closed* *wontfix*

06:37:01 mod6: ;;tslb

06:37:05 gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 16 seconds

07:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7694 @ 0.00056873 = 4.3758 BTC [+] {2}

07:08:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056878 = 12.9113 BTC [+] {2}

07:19:54 adlai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo for your qind qntsidration, http://dpaste.com/17C2ZPT.txt

07:19:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20huda7 )

07:19:55 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:23:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00056897 = 4.95 BTC [+] {2}

07:24:22 mats: TIL ppc macs had a Forth shell by way of 'OpenFirmware'

07:30:04 mats: OLPC does too, but i've mentioned that before.

07:45:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31864 @ 0.00056699 = 18.0666 BTC [-] {3}

07:47:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25813 @ 0.00056247 = 14.519 BTC [-]

08:07:59 BingoBoingo: ty adlai

08:08:17 deedbot-: [Qntra] Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Crosses 144 Million With 20.06% Rise - http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-crosses-144-million-with-20-06-rise/

08:09:15 *: adlai is open to suggestions of fee market statistics to display, beyond the obvious "picture is worth >9K shares"

08:09:19 punkman: mats: there is a SyFy thing called The Expanse nao << possibly the only SyFy show I didn't stop watching mid-episode

08:09:56 punkman: the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak

08:11:04 ben_vulpes: kinda hate ancient earth babe

08:11:39 ben_vulpes: although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test

08:13:46 mats: holy shit, 1exahash and at 20% increase

08:13:59 punkman: did we break sha256 yet

08:14:13 ben_vulpes: 512 up

08:15:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0005629 = 2.4768 BTC [+] {2}

08:17:17 punkman: I'm gonna hack on my diff implementation today, any suggestions welcome

08:17:26 ben_vulpes: diff impl?

08:17:32 ben_vulpes: link to original?

08:17:36 ben_vulpes: or v impl

08:17:47 punkman: diff

08:18:07 ben_vulpes: have you shared something from which suggestions might bloom?

08:18:58 punkman: not much to share yet

08:19:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00056461 = 9.8807 BTC [+] {2}

08:23:58 punkman: the obvious stuff: file deletes without needing to dump whole file in the diff. also thinking on how to handle simple renames.

08:25:39 punkman: perhaps a token-replace operation, but then we are venturing in ascii's "turing-complete-diff"

08:37:03 ben_vulpes: adlai: do you know how to rebind a var to a specific value at the beginning of every iteration through a loop in cl?

08:37:10 ben_vulpes: (and wouldja share if so?)

08:38:48 punkman: is it different than setting a regular variable?

08:39:50 adlai: ben_vulpes: (loop for a = 10 do (stuff :to a)) ?

08:40:03 ben_vulpes: for's rebind, with's do not?

08:40:24 adlai: correct, but the full picture is much more subtle

08:40:34 adlai: for x = init then next

08:40:45 adlai: leaving out next rebinds to init each time

08:40:53 ben_vulpes: huh

08:41:23 ben_vulpes: where can i get my hands on complete documentation for the loop macro?

08:41:26 ben_vulpes: clhs keeps failing me

08:41:42 ben_vulpes: and 'loop for black belts' has a limited set of recipes.

08:41:47 punkman: inspect it in the repl?

08:42:15 adlai: this no-next-defaults-to-init behavior is potentially confusing because the do macro does not have this behavior

08:42:39 adlai: ben_vulpes: http://l1sp.org/cl/

08:42:40 assbot: CLHS: Section ... ( http://bit.ly/20OTLNZ )

08:42:40 *: ben_vulpes has to step out, apologies for asking at an beforehand-unknowably-importune moment

08:42:53 ben_vulpes: thanks adlai

08:42:55 ben_vulpes: bb shortly

08:42:58 adlai: section 6 is/willbe your friend when you return

08:46:51 BingoBoingo: adlai: BTW you did the off by thousand error thing

08:47:30 punkman: http://coccinellery.org/

08:47:31 assbot: Coccinellery: A gallery of semantic patches for use with Coccinelle ... ( http://bit.ly/1TM0MgC )

08:48:25 adlai: BingoBoingo: it's just a single letter, they're even adjacent on dvorak

08:54:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19784 @ 0.00056357 = 11.1497 BTC [-] {2}

08:55:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7316 @ 0.0005629 = 4.1182 BTC [-]

08:59:27 BingoBoingo: adlai: https://twitter.com/qntra/status/696255988500815873 and http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-crosses-144-million-with-20-06-rise/#comment-45239

08:59:30 assbot: Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Crosses 144 Billion With 20.06% Rise | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/20OUz5u )

09:05:19 BingoBoingo: In other news apparently AWS isn't good enough for this round of forkers https://archive.is/Jqv9Q

09:05:20 assbot: Bring Up Your Nodes : btc ... ( http://bit.ly/20OUPBs )

09:09:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.0005629 = 15.9864 BTC [-] {2}

09:13:48 ben_vulpes: > sending a supremely strong message to all

09:13:49 ben_vulpes: sure

09:13:54 ben_vulpes: who is this aquentin again?

09:14:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00056915 = 9.7325 BTC [+] {3}

09:16:44 ben_vulpes: adlai: a) i am annoyed that someone has coopted your 3 letters of tab completion and never says anything in here b) monthly averages and standard deviations of transaction fees as percentage of total miner subsidy would be far more informative

09:17:33 adlai: hmm, tab completion is worth defending

09:19:04 ben_vulpes: i'll take cab funpletion over dick blocks any day

09:20:10 ben_vulpes: whoa

09:20:24 ben_vulpes: was adlie one of yours?

09:20:33 ben_vulpes: also thank you for the link to chapter six.

09:21:34 adlai: np. and yes: SaslServ (SaslServ@services.): liead!~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai has just authenticated as you (Adlai)

09:23:31 ben_vulpes: thank you for the 6 pairs of 'ai' that you saved me from typing over the next month

09:23:45 adlai: "ai must come from within"

09:24:13 ben_vulpes: "the spirit of stallman compels you!"

09:26:27 adlai: re:CL, i suggest at some point taking http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382968 seriously and going over the spec cover to cover, not to grok its content, but rather - the structure

09:26:27 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:31:57; asciilifeform: 978 motherfucking keywords in ansi std.

09:26:38 ben_vulpes: man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point?

09:27:35 ben_vulpes: adlai: noted.

09:28:13 ben_vulpes: however i don't see myself doing that any time soon, and sicp is...somewhat higher on the list.

09:28:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14570 @ 0.0005629 = 8.2015 BTC [-] {2}

09:28:56 adlai: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/index.html << looks alive!

09:28:57 assbot: Kent Pitman's Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8t858 )

09:30:48 punkman: https://github.com/maqp/tfc-otp

09:30:50 assbot: GitHub - maqp/tfc-otp: Tinfoil Chat (OTP) ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8th8K )

09:31:36 ben_vulpes: usually all i'm curious about is 'why is *that* implementation dependent?!'

09:31:54 adlai: because http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/cl-untold-story.html

09:31:55 assbot: Common Lisp: The Untold Story ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8to44 )

09:32:58 ben_vulpes: punkman: either 1/10 troll or you have better repl foo than my incompetent self and should share this wisdom

09:33:00 adlai: the handwritten notes bit ("5.2 Early Politics and Posturing") is excellent, all relevant to bitcoin too

09:33:31 ben_vulpes: oh man adlai i didn't even know i was looking for that

09:34:08 punkman: ben_vulpes: I don't lisp but thought lisp was cool enough to let you inspect everything in repl

09:35:25 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> who is this aquentin again? << troll dude

09:35:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20788 @ 0.00056256 = 11.6945 BTC [-] {2}

09:35:57 adlai: punkman: the problem is that http://l1sp.org/cl/loop is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of http://l1sp.org/cl/6.1.1

09:35:58 assbot: CLHS: Macro LOOP ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbuICE )

09:35:58 assbot: CLHS: Section 6.1.1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbuJGN )

09:36:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26836 @ 0.00056243 = 15.0934 BTC [-] {2}

09:37:20 adlai: the other hairball horrorshow being, eg, http://l1sp.org/cl/

09:37:20 assbot: CLHS: Section ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbuNGy )

09:37:55 ben_vulpes: i am not ready for the tildenightmare

09:38:00 adlai: ben_vulpes: C-c C-d ~

09:38:34 adlai: second only to C-c C-d #

09:40:02 adlai: infuriatingly enough, `C-c C-d h` does not work for loop keywords such as the for-=-then clause

09:40:50 ben_vulpes: well that's a helluva shortcut

09:40:53 ben_vulpes: thank you, adlai

09:41:06 *: adlai is glad to see ben_vulpes using lisp enough to need these!

09:42:50 ben_vulpes: mwell i don't really 'get to' code except for tmsr any more

09:43:15 ben_vulpes: although i do drive-by javascript debugging pretty well

09:44:11 ben_vulpes: and can *almost* run down objective c weirdness on my own when qa'ing others' work

09:44:53 ben_vulpes: but good god

09:44:55 ben_vulpes: the clicking

09:45:03 ben_vulpes: endless

09:45:04 ben_vulpes: clicking

09:57:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00056136 = 5.5013 BTC [-] {2}

10:41:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056835 = 11.7648 BTC [+] {2}

10:48:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00057001 = 12.0842 BTC [+] {2}

10:58:02 deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/02/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system.html

11:08:21 ben_vulpes: mod6, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, phf, punkman: feedback greatly appreciated

11:15:33 ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker

11:15:53 ben_vulpes: (month late, only looked it up today)

11:15:54 BingoBoingo: Congrats ben_vulpes

11:16:20 ben_vulpes: ty BingoBoingo

11:16:33 ben_vulpes: remember when mircea_popescu liked to troll people into starting blogs?

11:16:52 BingoBoingo: Doesn't he still? People just listen less now.

11:17:07 ben_vulpes: i'm still a dumb sucker

11:17:15 BingoBoingo: In other news only takes 14 point to get third place on /r/bitcoin https://archive.is/n9uZe

11:17:16 assbot: Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1K6kSQw )

11:17:28 ben_vulpes: hey one post slightly more frequently than every week for two years

11:18:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00057043 = 8.5565 BTC [+] {2}

11:19:28 ben_vulpes: https://archive.is/zfBPO << oh so that's what happened to c4

11:19:29 assbot: Satoshi Roundtable | Private Retreat ... ( http://bit.ly/1PfjZE5 )

11:20:21 ben_vulpes: https://twitter.com/ioerror/status/695986986079928320 << someone bother the dood?

11:22:53 punkman: ben_vulpes: s/descendents/descendants

11:23:02 BingoBoingo: ioerror dude is tor developer. Bothering likely goes straight to fort meade

11:23:57 ben_vulpes: well in that case

11:24:00 ben_vulpes: ty punkman

11:24:14 punkman: ooh seems both are valid words actually

11:24:22 BingoBoingo: And danielpbarron seems to have already bothered

11:25:23 ben_vulpes: punkman: that would explain why i john kerry all over them

11:26:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00057145 = 21.8008 BTC [+] {3}

11:27:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00056999 = 18.9237 BTC [-] {2}

11:35:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00056999 = 1.8525 BTC [-]

11:38:42 punkman: "Subgraph Mail is a new desktop email client written from scratch, with its own implementation of OpenPGP built-in." that will surely end well "

11:40:33 punkman: "Subgraph believes that managed runtimes and memory-safe languages should be used where possible. For this reason, Subgraph Mail, the Metaproxy, and other components of the Subgraph OS are written in higher level languages that are memory-safe or run in managed runtimes, making them less susceptible to memory corruption style implementation vulnerabilities. "

11:40:49 punkman: so we used... Java

11:44:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14962 @ 0.00057154 = 8.5514 BTC [+]

11:46:08 BingoBoingo: !b 2

11:46:10 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03Y3PG2.txt )

11:53:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00056999 = 22.5146 BTC [-] {2}

11:57:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00057156 = 15.7465 BTC [+] {2}

11:58:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16454 @ 0.00056999 = 9.3786 BTC [-]

12:19:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4759 @ 0.00056999 = 2.7126 BTC [-]

12:37:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19637 @ 0.00056719 = 11.1379 BTC [-] {2}

12:51:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19148 @ 0.00056649 = 10.8472 BTC [-] {2}

12:58:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00056982 = 36.6964 BTC [+] {2}

13:15:03 oglafbot: http://media.oglaf.com/archive/arc-perhaps.png

13:15:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PIoqsv )

13:17:15 mircea_popescu: o hey new oglaf

13:18:53 BingoBoingo: Well, it is Sunday

13:19:18 BingoBoingo: Ah, linked the wrong thing

13:19:32 BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/perhaps/

13:19:33 assbot: Perhaps ... ( http://bit.ly/1NYcSfj )

13:37:37 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-02-2016#1398673 <<< yiss ben_vulpes

13:37:37 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 03:18:49; ben_vulpes: one for shinohai: http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt1itiWyRx1r31wtyo1_500.jpg

13:38:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056983 = 7.9776 BTC [+]

13:43:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56200 @ 0.00056983 = 32.0244 BTC [+]

13:48:44 mircea_popescu: such delicious bacons!

13:50:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37121 @ 0.00057081 = 21.189 BTC [+] {2}

13:51:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7579 @ 0.00057168 = 4.3328 BTC [+]

13:55:11 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo check it out, reads exactly like contemporary anglo literature.

13:55:35 BingoBoingo: Which thing read that way?

13:57:54 mircea_popescu: Iron Men III!

14:00:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398769 << what's space-noir mean here ? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398771 << da fuck is a bechdel test ?

14:00:20 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 08:09:56; punkman: the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak

14:00:20 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 08:11:39; ben_vulpes: although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test

14:00:30 *: mircea_popescu feels like he's 5 years old all of a sudden!

14:00:51 mircea_popescu: "The Bechdel test (/ˈbɛkdəl/ BEK-dəl) asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man."

14:00:53 mircea_popescu: ha.

14:01:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00056657 = 13.4277 BTC [-] {4}

14:02:18 mircea_popescu: this is not a bad idea, is it! imagine if all conversation between dudes was either absent (such as is traditionally in westerns and other tough-man stuff in the style) or otherwise entirely about "booze bitches blunts" as in the usual dudefare.

14:02:39 mircea_popescu: you'd think it's all made in hollywood, going on the tiresome superficiality.

14:05:31 mircea_popescu: "It is decision time guys and right now the number of nodes is what is most important, perhaps, even decisive." << o hey, it trickled down ?

14:05:46 mircea_popescu: "I worry that support for classic has become rather wishy-washy (like with everything else in bitcoin currently). Miners need to get serious right now, no more messing around." hurr durr.

14:05:47 mircea_popescu: mkay.

14:06:36 copypaste: people who have no say in anything thinking they matter

14:06:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398825 << yes.

14:06:37 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 09:20:24; ben_vulpes: was adlie one of yours?

14:07:29 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/#comment-116464 << in other news, longstanding reddit-based admirer/landwhale finally broke the wall!

14:07:31 assbot: The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1W2eQRJ )

14:07:48 mircea_popescu: did you know sciencehatesyou actually abbreviates to "shy" ? neither did i! but apparently it's what it stands for!

14:08:11 BingoBoingo: Oh

14:12:15 mircea_popescu: "In TFC, Alice enters her message into Tx.py running on her Transmitter Module (TxM), a TCB separated from network. Tx.py encrypts the message and signs the ciphertext. TxM then relays the packet to Network Handler (NH) through RS-232 interface and a data diode."

14:12:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398839 << look what punkman1 dredged up! it actually looks interesting.

14:12:32 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 09:30:48; punkman: https://github.com/maqp/tfc-otp

14:12:45 mircea_popescu: or at least, no obvious "gtfo flags" i immediately notice.

14:13:55 mircea_popescu: now who's Markus Ottela aka mapq and why isn't he in here.

14:16:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398850 << i like this cogent version of adlai better than any other i've to date perceived!

14:16:58 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 09:35:57; adlai: punkman: the problem is that http://l1sp.org/cl/loop is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of http://l1sp.org/cl/6.1.1

14:18:16 mircea_popescu: guy sounds like a competent lawyer. (and yes, contrary to the view commonly held by people who have no idea, there exists such a thing as competent lawyers, it's an intellectual field like any other and just as capable to contain "lovely gems and brilliant coups" as the field of mel is.)

14:19:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398875 << cheers!

14:19:53 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker

14:20:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398880 << ha, they actually listen slightly more!

14:20:28 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:16:52; BingoBoingo: Doesn't he still? People just listen less now.

14:20:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056564 = 12.84 BTC [-]

14:23:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398886 << lol naw.

14:23:08 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:19:28; ben_vulpes: https://archive.is/zfBPO << oh so that's what happened to c4

14:23:49 *: mircea_popescu braces himself for a bunch of people doing riding shots of themselves next.

14:25:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398901 << i have nfi how they figure that the LANGUAGE is going to protect you from the hardware. what can it do ? say to any misbehaving items sharing its heap that "oh no you don't, this here is extra special good stuff!" ?

14:25:29 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:40:49; punkman: so we used... Java

14:27:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00056564 = 4.7231 BTC [-]

14:33:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00057118 = 18.4777 BTC [+] {4}

14:49:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11073 @ 0.000567 = 6.2784 BTC [-] {2}

14:55:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40389 @ 0.00056363 = 22.7645 BTC [-] {3}

14:58:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26032 @ 0.00056202 = 14.6305 BTC [-] {2}

15:07:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00056896 = 10.9809 BTC [+] {2}

15:23:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31650 @ 0.00056148 = 17.7708 BTC [-] {3}

15:32:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.0005725 = 3.2346 BTC [+] {2}

15:33:02 polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command,

15:33:05 polarbeard: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/polarbeard/trb/master/patches/polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc.vpatch

15:33:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8wmhn )

15:33:08 polarbeard: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/polarbeard/trb/master/sigs/polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc.vpatch.polarbeard.sig

15:33:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8wnSr )

15:34:44 phf: ^- http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc

15:34:45 assbot: polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8wFZq )

15:37:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056691 = 9.4107 BTC [-] {2}

15:39:19 phf: polarbeard: hey, do you mind linking to your pgp key

15:40:47 phf: never mind, found it

15:40:53 polarbeard: here you are: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x11CC9042929D3682

15:40:54 assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x11cc9042929d3682 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8xvp5 )

15:41:37 phf: yeap

15:44:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47500 @ 0.00057257 = 27.1971 BTC [+] {3}

15:50:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20683 @ 0.00057258 = 11.8427 BTC [+]

16:04:59 phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398750 << http://paste.lisp.org/display/306741 i thought i posted this before, but there are two fixes required on mac os x, sha512sum needs to be replaced with shasum -a 512 (and on openbsd with sha512). since awk can't find the command, it always goes for false. second fix is that you need to explicitly close the external checksum command, because bsd awk doesn't. instead it keeps all

16:04:59 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 06:29:24; ben_vulpes: also of note vdiff does not work under macos

16:05:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20CmIQt )

16:05:00 phf: those open files around until eventually running out of handlers ("too many files open" message)

16:06:45 mircea_popescu: polarbeard nice.

16:07:41 phf: as far as what it does i hope formatting in the paste above makes it more readable. for each line that starts with --- or +++ awk extract the filename and runs shasum on the file, then prints the new diff line with shasum included. for other files it just outputs whatever's there. so it's a filter that transforms mentions of diff'ed files into diffed files + checksum

16:07:47 phf: ben_vulpes: ^-

16:17:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00057821 = 8.5575 BTC [+] {2}

16:22:08 deedbot-: [Qntra] Foundation Co-Chair Publishes Introduction To V Provenance System - http://qntra.net/2016/02/foundation-co-chair-publishes-introduction-to-v-provenance-system/

16:39:09 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "Mirror of antecedents, returns patches that depend on it's argument." << its.

16:41:37 mircea_popescu: "Stan delivers a beautifully terse toposort implementation here. He leverages language features in both data structure and control flow, and the resulting code is terse and readable." << too much terse!

16:42:15 mircea_popescu: funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ?

16:43:40 mircea_popescu: "Stan's program makes excellent and judicious use of global state, but I am nowhere near disciplined enough to do the same to good effect" << a simple trick [expert programmers hate] to achieve this is you know you can map state on paper for a while until it's learned.

16:45:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00057804 = 3.1503 BTC [-] {2}

16:46:22 mircea_popescu: "I'll leave the bombast and politics to those typically responsible for such." << ha!

16:47:14 mircea_popescu: !up hdbuck

16:48:37 hdbuck: hello there

16:49:25 mircea_popescu: heya.

16:49:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes very nice summary, actually.

16:50:20 phf: ben_vulpes: man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point? << probably better question, who has died, because the majority of the people form the committee are still alive. http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/cl/dpANS3/chap-0-edit-history.tex has an almost complete list of 104 ("These are attendees from minutes back through 3/88"), of those i recognize about 40, of those ~~10 i've been in touch with in the past year and another ~~10 are

16:50:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SWL6Gs )

16:50:21 phf: still doing things with public output (e.g. guy steele, richard gabriel, ...)

16:51:02 hdbuck: hum so any chance you’d let me know if I would still be leaking IP now?

16:51:17 mircea_popescu: hdbuck nope, * hdbuck (~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck) has joined #bitcoin-assets logged correctly.

16:53:31 phf: ben_vulpes: oh i remember dan weinreb died couple of years ago, of cancer actually.

16:54:38 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_rear

16:54:46 deedbot-: [Qntra] DPRK Launches Satellite Into Space - http://qntra.net/2016/02/dprk-launches-satellite-into-space/

16:56:01 ascii_rear: ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it

16:56:55 ascii_rear: most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this

16:58:44 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398850 << 'loop' is a macro, you can read the source in steele's cltl2

16:58:44 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 09:35:57; adlai: punkman: the problem is that http://l1sp.org/cl/loop is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of http://l1sp.org/cl/6.1.1

16:59:41 ascii_rear: and yes, eternal comp.lang.lisp holy war re: it constituting a heathen small language within cl

17:00:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00057183 = 34.0525 BTC [-] {4}

17:01:16 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398974 << nothing against this, but was hoping folks would make all new rpc calls shivatronic...

17:01:16 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 15:33:02; polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command,

17:02:06 mircea_popescu: ascii_rear> most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this << the problem here is that the only reason why is not obvious is because of issues in the reader's head, and a general treatise to address all possible personal issues can not really be made.

17:02:14 mircea_popescu: we're stuck discussing it with them one at a time. like education.

17:02:45 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398951 << tor?!

17:02:45 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 14:12:45; mircea_popescu: or at least, no obvious "gtfo flags" i immediately notice.

17:03:02 mircea_popescu: ascii_rear the backport works right now, for trinque's use for instance. shivatronic, tomorrow.

17:03:03 punkman: relevant quote in something I was just reading: "History is not the study of origins; rather it is the analysis of all the mediations by which the past was turned into our present."

17:03:17 ascii_rear: works, works

17:03:26 mircea_popescu: ascii_rear in general, but mind the peculiar way he is using it. merely there to hide metadata from the people who don't have it anyway

17:03:43 mircea_popescu: punkman truth.

17:03:46 punkman: ascii_rear: can easily be adapted to anything that takes serial protocol

17:03:55 punkman: also uses dbus to talk to pidgin

17:04:05 ascii_rear: ick

17:04:21 mircea_popescu: no but he has a point : if you're going to throw up might as well because "pidgin"

17:04:22 punkman: the otp implementation is possibly decent though

17:04:23 mircea_popescu: rather than tor

17:04:26 ascii_rear: and what part is new? diode is ancient

17:04:31 mircea_popescu: nothing is new.

17:04:37 phf: loop's source is not in cltl2, but the canonical implementation, MIT LOOP, is available in cmu archive https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/iter/loop/mit/0.html

17:04:39 assbot: Package: lang/lisp/code/iter/loop/mit/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1NYtNyj )

17:05:05 ascii_rear: phf : open your cltl2, it sure as hell is there

17:05:25 phf: can't, all the books are in storage, so i have to talk out of my ass

17:05:49 ascii_rear: what, phf is the only user without warez copy?

17:05:58 ascii_rear: L0l

17:06:11 punkman: mircea_popescu: what's space-noir mean here << film-noir-in-space

17:06:30 mircea_popescu: but... what does this mean!

17:06:41 mircea_popescu: i got as far on my own, but... wut ?!

17:07:31 punkman: the film-noir aspects of the series?

17:07:45 mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?

17:11:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108312 @ 0.00057871 = 62.6812 BTC [+] {5}

17:11:51 punkman: well I couldn't really give you a good definition of "film-noir", but there's a cynical private-dick type guy, searching for a girl that disappeared mysteriously

17:12:52 deedbot-: [Qntra] Tribulations Of Nordic System Affecting Universities - http://qntra.net/2016/02/tribulations-of-nordic-system-affecting-universities/

17:13:10 ascii_rear: how about 'dark city' mega-film ?

17:13:47 punkman: dark city was fun, I think I actually saw it in a cinema

17:20:43 mircea_popescu: oh oh that i see.

17:21:06 mircea_popescu: so basically dick tracy in space

17:21:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6363 @ 0.00056826 = 3.6158 BTC [-] {2}

17:22:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22337 @ 0.00056691 = 12.6631 BTC [-]

17:26:06 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_rear

17:31:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10692 @ 0.00057239 = 6.12 BTC [+]

17:35:13 BingoBoingo: In other news, Qntra just passed 1000 posts. http://qntra.net/2016/02/dprk-launches-satellite-into-space/ was number 1000

17:35:15 assbot: DPRK Launches Satellite Into Space | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qlqa7n )

17:36:50 BingoBoingo: And Qntra is in hour 6 or seven near the top of /r/bitcoin without getting blackholed down yet https://archive.is/NE4qu

17:36:52 assbot: Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qlqh2E )

17:39:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00056204 = 18.4911 BTC [-] {4}

17:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00057239 = 6.0387 BTC [+]

17:50:12 danielpbarron: Luke-Jr must be beside himself

17:57:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18598 @ 0.00057538 = 10.7009 BTC [+] {3}

17:58:55 mircea_popescu: grats on the millenium!

18:10:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00057831 = 13.4168 BTC [+]

18:23:42 mats: i wonder what it cost to spin up the 20% diff increase

18:25:54 mircea_popescu: coupla hundred mils or so.

18:26:19 mats: good to know.

18:27:27 mircea_popescu: by no means the end of the world. won't even buy you a walk's worth of county road.

18:32:19 polarbeard: asciilifeform: will play with shivatronics soon, probably after exploring gcov dumping

18:36:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6468 @ 0.00056901 = 3.6804 BTC [-] {2}

18:41:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00056902 = 17.2698 BTC [+]

18:47:08 punkman: http://rfc.zeromq.org/spec:22

18:47:09 assbot: 22/C4.1 - Collective Code Construction Contract - 0MQ Requests for Comments ... ( http://bit.ly/1TMTQ2S )

18:48:41 mircea_popescu: punkman Pieter Hintjens is imo gunk, the epitome of the plowing fly.

18:49:44 mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard design to do away wi

18:49:44 mircea_popescu: th the Caps Lock key. It was funded by donations from the campaign's supporters and eventually raised ?194.91." << this is a good summary of the man's contributions. they evaluate to < 200 euro + a wikipedia paragraph.

18:52:45 mircea_popescu: tomes could be written on the particulars of an overcompensating inferiority complex that seeks to remedy internal tension through far reaching "reforms" of the outer world. i'm too lazy. tomes could similarly be written about tardspedia, but i've done all of that i could be bothered to. so let's forget they both ever existed and move on.

18:56:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18023 @ 0.00056743 = 10.2268 BTC [-]

18:59:12 punkman: he drove all the important folks away from 0mq too

19:04:14 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_rear

19:06:34 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399080 << wut?!?

19:06:34 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 18:47:08; punkman: http://rfc.zeromq.org/spec:22

19:07:39 ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399083 << i've remapped it to cntrl for decade+, like other sane folk

19:07:39 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard d

19:08:03 ascii_rear: where is my campaign l0l

19:08:31 mircea_popescu: heh

19:09:29 ascii_rear: i dun get it

19:12:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4286 @ 0.00056743 = 2.432 BTC [-] {2}

19:20:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00055999 = 18.3397 BTC [-] {2}

19:36:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00056724 = 25.7527 BTC [+] {3}

19:44:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00056906 = 20.6853 BTC [+] {3}

19:53:25 punkman: !up maqp

19:54:39 maqp: Hey. Came to say hi after someone requested

19:58:28 mircea_popescu: o hey there.

19:58:39 mircea_popescu: you're the guy with the open source otp / airgapped thing are you ?

19:58:54 mircea_popescu: !up Conflict

19:58:55 maqp: yes

19:59:01 mircea_popescu: nice work!

19:59:23 mircea_popescu: !s tinfoil chat

19:59:24 assbot: 1 results for 'tinfoil chat' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tinfoil+chat

19:59:32 mircea_popescu: ^that's the discussion in the log.

19:59:51 mircea_popescu: you ever gave any thought to making some sort of marketable item out of that ?

20:00:07 maqp: thanks. I wanted to recommend you guys take a look at the TFC-NaCl that's fresh out of oven and has better design compared to OTP/CEV versions

20:00:39 mircea_popescu: link

20:00:56 maqp: https://github.com/maqp/tfc-nacl

20:00:57 assbot: GitHub - maqp/tfc-nacl: Tinfoil Chat (NaCl) ... ( http://bit.ly/20Px1xm )

20:01:26 mircea_popescu: also, it's a good idea to register your pgp key with assbot. that way you create an identity in the wot we can attach to.

20:01:38 maqp: I haven't had the time to update the two other versions

20:02:15 mircea_popescu: otherwise, you ever heard of bitcoin ?

20:02:25 maqp: Well, since this is a public chat room with no secrecy/authenticity, I don't really see the need at the moment

20:02:42 mircea_popescu: oh, there's plenty of authenticity. like so :

20:02:46 mircea_popescu: !gettrust punkman

20:02:50 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user punkman: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 13 via 13 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=punkman | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/punkman/

20:03:24 maqp: So are you running something that signs all your IRC messages or what are we talking about?

20:03:30 mircea_popescu: just no secrecy, deliberately.

20:03:42 mircea_popescu: nah, but you can order specific things be entered into the record by signing them

20:03:55 mircea_popescu: one case is ratings, which is how that wot is made. i go !rate x y

20:04:11 mircea_popescu: the other case is signed documents, there's a bot that keeps a notary service.

20:04:19 mircea_popescu: http://deedbot.org/ <

20:04:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UxGNEF )

20:04:33 adlai: !b 42

20:04:34 assbot: Last 42 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2H1CN12.txt )

20:05:00 mircea_popescu: autosigning things is poorly regarded here.

20:05:11 maqp: I see. The problem with GPG however is the lack of deniability. I'd rather keep things off the record <:

20:05:46 mircea_popescu: aha.

20:05:50 mircea_popescu: so you ever heard of bitcoin ?

20:06:36 maqp: yeah, sure. I haven't had the need for it. At least yet.

20:06:43 mircea_popescu: would you like some ?

20:06:55 maqp: like donations?

20:07:02 mircea_popescu: myeah.

20:07:26 phf: ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399083 << i've remapped it to cntrl for decade+, like other sane folk << you know that's a filthy unixism and is going to overwork your already qwerty abused left hand even further? lispm puts control on both sides of spacebar, followed by alt/meta, follwed by other stuff..

20:07:26 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard d

20:07:56 mircea_popescu: phf why the hell woulc you switch ctrl and alt around o.O

20:08:06 maqp: Maybe. Provided that there are no obligations to where my project should be heading towards. I could use a cup of coffee, but it'll take some time to learn how to secure the account and endpoint

20:08:15 mircea_popescu: maqp post an address

20:08:37 phf: mircea_popescu: emacs

20:08:43 mircea_popescu: i guess.

20:08:51 maqp: i.e. I'll have to look into secure deployment when generating one.

20:09:17 mircea_popescu: maqp i suppose you could look into TRB. get yourself V and make your own secure node.

20:10:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a 1 BTC with your name on it here. if you post an address in this session you got it. if you disconnect before you registered a sig with assbot, you won't be able to get it cuz i won't know it's you.

20:10:07 phf: it sort of relies on the idea that control is easier to chord with. all the control combos are basic text manipulation stuff, so when i'm emacsing i chord with the thumb opposite of key, i.e. c-a is left pinky a, right thumb control

20:11:10 mircea_popescu: i keep the pinky on ctrl. which is why making it further in would be inconvenient for me.

20:14:01 maqp: I won't have to disconnect since it's running on uni server's screen. But you get more assurance on my future bitcoin account signed with my PGP key https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x085ADF061C2B20CD

20:14:02 assbot: Search results for '0x085adf061c2b20cd' ... ( http://bit.ly/20PxPlJ )

20:14:28 mircea_popescu: !h

20:14:28 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

20:14:43 phf: actually i think original tom knight keyboard puts control and meta under pinky by spacing things out

20:14:48 phf: http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/Knight1.jpeg

20:14:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20PxWhh )

20:16:08 mircea_popescu: maqp basically you go !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD

20:17:46 mircea_popescu: phf aha something like that. i suppose that's really it, move alt to shift or caps or something. tho really caps lock is kinda too high, crosses the fingers.

20:20:36 maqp: mircea_popescu: What's the prefix in front of pub key fingerprint?

20:21:10 maqp: 559..d8b

20:21:17 ben_vulpes: that's the full-length fp

20:21:34 mircea_popescu: you're using half-fingerprints which is silly.

20:22:52 maqp: interesting. There doesn't seem to be a setting for that when uploading key to MIT key server

20:23:13 ben_vulpes: it's a 'print from GPG' setting

20:23:13 mircea_popescu: myeah.

20:23:33 mircea_popescu: !up maqp

20:23:37 ben_vulpes: 'keyid format 0xlong'

20:23:43 mircea_popescu: --fingerprint also does it.

20:23:50 ben_vulpes: echo "keyid format 0xlong" >> ~/.gnupg.conf

20:24:31 ben_vulpes: don't actually do that please.

20:25:04 punkman: !s saneprefs*

20:25:05 assbot: 4 results for 'saneprefs*' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=saneprefs%2A

20:25:46 ben_vulpes: > now who's Markus Ottela << lol hey buddhi

20:26:15 maqp: !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD

20:26:15 assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD. This may take a few moments.

20:26:16 assbot: Key 1C2B20CD / "Markus Ottela <oottela@cs.helsinki.fi>" successfully imported.

20:26:16 assbot: Registration successful.

20:26:20 maqp: yay

20:27:07 mircea_popescu: cheers.

20:27:13 mircea_popescu: !rate maqp 1 diodes

20:27:13 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/32540d5779b7cecb

20:27:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00056907 = 1.821 BTC [+]

20:27:36 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.maqp.1:b036a6fcaa5939edc3d055c0d2d45c2e6e0e3c8d50eb416c651e482d87c90d7a

20:27:36 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: diodes

20:28:00 mircea_popescu: maqp now you can self-voice ; just say !up to assbot in a pm and it'll give you a string to decrypt. pass it with !v and you're voiced.

20:28:15 ben_vulpes: welcome maqp

20:28:22 ben_vulpes: you're now a terrorist

20:28:33 mircea_popescu: no i think he was a terrorist before.

20:28:44 ben_vulpes: the world just didn't know it yet!

20:29:01 ben_vulpes: maqp: where does the handle come from?

20:29:08 mircea_popescu: hey, an interest in actual crypto / security ? DEFINITELY terrorism.

20:31:43 ben_vulpes: http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-new-lordship-list/ << mircea_popescu did you ever finalize this?

20:31:44 assbot: A new Lordship List ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYer1O )

20:32:18 mircea_popescu: finalize as in what ?

20:32:46 ben_vulpes: as in publish your next lordship list

20:33:00 mircea_popescu: well no, not really april yet. there should prolly be some discussion for a new one huh.

20:33:03 ben_vulpes: you proposed changes, but i'm not seeing those changes cemented anywhere.

20:33:15 maqp: Handle is mixed play with markus, nickname maku, how q is pronounced ku and p and q in crypto

20:33:17 ben_vulpes: right, and given the extremely long lead time for review around here i want to kick the conversation off now

20:33:18 mircea_popescu: iirc that update got applied or not ?

20:33:34 ben_vulpes: i dunno i'm not diffing your html with my face

20:33:49 mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was applied then.

20:34:07 mircea_popescu: and what, you dunno who the peers are ? for shame!

20:34:10 ben_vulpes: o wait this'd be the canonical list

20:34:11 ben_vulpes: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/assbot/

20:34:12 assbot: assbot WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3Sp00 )

20:34:15 mircea_popescu: well yes

20:34:22 ben_vulpes: nigga you think i keep shit in my head that computers remember for me?

20:34:30 mircea_popescu: this shit, you must keep in your head.

20:34:43 mircea_popescu: computers lie.

20:34:51 maqp: As far as it goes with cast iron list, it remains to be seen who's now closer to "terrorists"

20:34:55 ben_vulpes: fair nuff.

20:35:07 mircea_popescu: maqp wassat ?

20:35:27 maqp: jokingmate

20:35:30 ben_vulpes: ;;seen mthreat

20:35:31 gribble: mthreat was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <mthreat> any problems, lemme know

20:35:47 ben_vulpes: ;;seen dignork

20:35:48 gribble: dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <dignork> PeterL: I'm lurking

20:36:00 ben_vulpes: ;;seen artifexd

20:36:00 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

20:37:00 mircea_popescu: i wonder how gabriel spoonful's doing these days.

20:37:57 maqp: So anyway, as far as the TFC goes, NaCl is the first one to provide practical public key crypto

20:38:14 ben_vulpes: ;;seen diametric

20:38:15 gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 42 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <diametric> not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.

20:38:34 maqp: I tried it earlier, but the classic Diffie-Hellman had much less security and a lot longer public key

20:39:13 maqp: The current version has 72 hex char key you have to manually type to transmitter device; it's similar to manually typing Ricochet/Tox ID

20:39:24 maqp: Since it's ECDHE, the security is actually 3072-bit RSA equivalent

20:39:26 mircea_popescu: !up pussyfreak

20:39:37 pussyfreak: thanks

20:39:47 ben_vulpes: i propose excising artifexd from the lordship, and i further propose adding phf to it

20:40:03 mircea_popescu: maqp you actually type hex digits ?

20:40:08 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1232/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jul-2016/#b22

20:40:20 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no objection ; and in light of the traverser no objection.

20:40:25 maqp: unfortunaltely that's the only way to prevent nation state from remotely injecting malware to transmitter device after setup

20:40:40 mircea_popescu: maqp but you could type base64 ?

20:40:46 ben_vulpes: traverser and *myriad* other contributions.

20:41:12 maqp: That could work of course, base58 might be better as there's less similar looking chars

20:41:12 ben_vulpes: also does lordship survive termination of corporeal instantiation?

20:41:19 mircea_popescu: chetty should also come off, seeing how she's no more.

20:41:26 mircea_popescu: i don't see how it could.

20:41:29 ben_vulpes: aha precisely what i was asking.

20:41:32 punkman: maqp, is that a carter-wegman MAC in your otp version?

20:41:36 mircea_popescu: maqp right. fewer keystrokes anyway

20:42:38 maqp: punkman: It's a classical one-time MAC with excess key expenditure. Not a good idea I admit

20:42:49 ben_vulpes: i also don't quite know what mthreat's doing in there beyond running search and being a known usg antagonist.

20:43:02 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, the search is running ok. this is a thing.

20:43:24 ben_vulpes: 'running ok' is the criteria?

20:43:44 mircea_popescu: my thinking, vague as i admit it may be, is that if the guy's service is running, the guy is ok.

20:43:48 ben_vulpes: i don't intend this as an attack on mthreat, trying only to tease out the logic.

20:43:58 mircea_popescu: otherwise what, wipe mike_c because he had a kid ? nonsense i say!

20:43:58 ben_vulpes: yes but /inclusion in the lordship/ for that?

20:44:00 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.maqp.1:cf9f8d6640cd6e94e71f6be044d2a4c9147ca162e812e5c5b414694eccbb44a1

20:44:00 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: I showed him the log, and he joined! I'm on a roll.

20:44:06 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dude he has like three

20:44:07 mircea_popescu: well hes' included already.

20:44:16 maqp: mircea_popescu: indeed. I just figured the few extra chars were't that important, and that typing upper/lower case might make it slower. I'll have to look into that

20:44:33 mircea_popescu: maqp so you could do base 37 lol.

20:45:16 maqp: I wonder if there's a library for that

20:45:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes generally i'm thinking, to make it in people gotta put you in ; but once you're in, yoiu're in, and baring disaster you stay in.

20:45:41 maqp: But since users are verifying the public key over Signal call

20:46:20 maqp: having to say "upper case B, lower case c".. is almost as bad as the one used in Telegram

20:46:31 maqp: "lightish square, a bit darker square, white square"...

20:46:32 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you don't show up in the forum, marshall hoplits on demand, are you still a senator?

20:46:36 ben_vulpes: hoplites

20:46:46 mircea_popescu: yup. it's called lacoonism.

20:46:52 punkman: lol

20:47:12 mircea_popescu: as long as you do what's expected of you - no case can be brought.

20:48:02 maqp: But since you don't have to read the public key in Base58 format, it could use two different encodings

20:48:06 ben_vulpes: izzat a coon pun?

20:48:42 mircea_popescu: no, it's a historical reference.

20:48:59 mircea_popescu: WITH an interspersed poon.

20:49:04 maqp: Base36 would reduce public key length to 56 chars

20:49:04 mircea_popescu: i mean pun

20:49:15 maqp: (checksum included)

20:49:17 mircea_popescu: maqp better than 72 i'd say

20:49:27 maqp: indeed. I'll look into that <:

20:49:38 mircea_popescu: as the saying goes, #b-a presence counts for 30 iq points.

20:49:43 ben_vulpes: aha!

20:51:06 maqp: NaCl also lets you pre-share 256-bit XSalsa20-Poly1305 keys. It was the only practical post-quantum solution at the moment

20:51:15 punkman: I think pronounceable words beat baseX

20:51:48 punkman: http://blog.acolyer.org/2015/10/29/how-to-memorize-a-random-60-bit-string/ some neat ideas in this paper

20:51:49 assbot: How to memorize a random 60-bit string | the morning paper ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3Tkh8 )

20:51:57 maqp: It's also a lot easier with NaCl than with OTP/CEV (there's a separate command for adding PSKs)

20:52:07 punkman: what's CEV?

20:52:17 maqp: CEV is the cascading encryption version

20:52:30 maqp: basically it's like OTP but with forward secret cascading encryption

20:52:37 mircea_popescu: post-quantum ?!

20:52:39 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399000 << in the sense that most everything i read here gets filed away and pops up unexpectedly elsewhere. but no, not explicitly.

20:52:39 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 16:42:15; mircea_popescu: funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ?

20:52:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00056335 = 21.2946 BTC [-] {3}

20:53:04 maqp: Keccak512-CTR - XSalsa20 - Twofish-CTR - AES256-GCM - HMAC-SHA512 - SHA3-512-MAC

20:53:35 maqp: "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" makes a lot more sense than "why use information theoretically secure ciphers"

20:54:03 mircea_popescu: you ever looked into cramer-shoup ?

20:54:09 punkman: you can !up yourself now maqp

20:55:03 ben_vulpes: phf: thank you for the rewriting and clarification on why vdiff doesn't on macos.

20:55:39 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399016 << where do the provided explanations fall flat?

20:55:39 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 16:56:01; ascii_rear: ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it

20:58:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36722 @ 0.00056906 = 20.897 BTC [+] {2}

20:58:06 maqp: works well

20:58:20 ben_vulpes: well, works.

20:58:30 punkman: "why use information theoretically secure ciphers" << not really plural there, there is only otp

20:59:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8428 @ 0.00056968 = 4.8013 BTC [+]

20:59:13 ben_vulpes: anyways, i now return you to your regularly scheduled programming

20:59:28 ben_vulpes: the superb owl impends, and the girls need a hand hefting cakes and buckets of wangs

20:59:35 shinohai: >.>

20:59:52 shinohai: Super Owl? O.o

21:00:00 ben_vulpes: supberb* owl

21:00:35 ben_vulpes: you know

21:00:37 shinohai: {o,o}

21:00:39 shinohai: |)__)

21:00:41 shinohai: -”-”- o rly?

21:00:43 ben_vulpes: mountain ponies

21:00:47 ben_vulpes: jungle cats

21:01:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00056968 = 5.0132 BTC [+]

21:01:09 ben_vulpes: aka racial discourse kittens

21:01:32 punkman: "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" << because it's nice if the whole thing fits-in-head, and even if you cascade there is still the possibility of meet-me-in-the-middle attacks or I dunno what else

21:02:30 maqp: punkman: splitting hairs but yeah. Algorithms woul've come closer

21:02:38 maqp: would've*

21:04:09 punkman: maqp: what other algorithms are you thinking of that fit the title?

21:04:25 maqp: one-time MAC

21:04:55 punkman: ah ok

21:05:10 maqp: unconditionally secure authentication fits information theoretically secure algorithms (not ciphers)

21:05:35 maqp: but yeah, my bad <:

21:06:26 mircea_popescu: !up ieephm

21:07:26 mircea_popescu: maqp you ever saw http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/ ?

21:07:27 assbot: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UWcHH8 )

21:11:47 fluffypony: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/whatsapp-group-chats-bigger-maximum-size-256-people-users-a6856491.html

21:11:47 assbot: WhatsApp increases group chat size limit to 256 people | News | Lifestyle | The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3UzwG )

21:12:03 fluffypony: "It's not clear why WhatsApp settled on the oddly specific number, but it'll be good news for those users for whom 100 just wasn't big enough."

21:12:15 punkman: heh

21:16:17 maqp: mircea_popescu: Didn't see that. CEV was built to distribute trust over multiple cryptographic primitives and designers

21:19:28 maqp: Snowden hinted something about using cascading at Harvard Privacy Synopsium when he was talking with Schneier. Schneier disagreed but it left me wondering whether Snowden's tongue slipped. Cascading was agreed as a good practice in the Schneier's Friday squid blog so I had a go

21:20:31 maqp: Additive keystreams have very low risk after all and I didn't have to trust single external crypto library

21:20:41 maqp: That's pretty much the story behind CEV

21:23:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00056133 = 17.4574 BTC [-] {4}

21:25:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00056088 = 3.7859 BTC [-] {2}

21:25:30 ben_vulpes: what the fuck is this "tongue slipped"

21:25:39 ben_vulpes: faux patriotism routine makes me fucking retch

21:30:03 shinohai: One cannot save what is already hopelessly crumbling.

21:30:39 maqp: AFAIK Snowden hasn't got a degree in math/crypto, but what he said might indicate something in the leaks the journalists chose not to publish. It's a long shot but since there was no harm in cascading...

21:57:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.00056952 = 19.1928 BTC [+] {5}

21:59:12 danielpbarron: ;;seen rdymac

21:59:13 gribble: rdymac was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 26 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, and 24 seconds ago: <rdymac> Any Rails dev here?

21:59:32 danielpbarron: !rated rdymac

21:59:32 assbot: You rated user rdymac on 07-Dec-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: that bobbaer guy http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2014#947497.

21:59:36 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.rdymac:7d086a2d0691adca56545a6ba7495e533c0b19805f9eab706a138362b2424cd1

21:59:36 assbot: Successfully unrated rdymac

22:01:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00057165 = 9.8324 BTC [+]

22:02:52 maqp: ben_vulpes: I think you're confusing patriotism with nationalism

22:03:26 danielpbarron: !rated thestringpuller

22:03:26 assbot: You rated user thestringpuller on 08-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: https://twitter.com/thestringpuller.

22:03:33 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.thestringpuller.1:fac5f227134ae0795380be7386c83629c975a9201a61ee30e1c88e35be8490b1

22:03:33 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 1 to 1 with note: wrote the hard fork missile crisis qntra article

22:05:10 danielpbarron: ;;seen thomas_d

22:05:10 gribble: thomas_d was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 10 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <thomas_d> xanthyos ?

22:05:21 danielpbarron: !rated thomas_d

22:05:21 assbot: You rated user thomas_d on 24-Nov-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: plays on seals as thomas_dick.

22:05:25 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.thomas_d:9efb94b8241695ed4e1ac3950d1e04460f8c53d60ca67c29fd41cb7621ecc241

22:05:25 assbot: Successfully unrated thomas_d

22:06:56 danielpbarron: ;;seen napedia

22:06:56 gribble: napedia was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 51 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <napedia> I don't write for SNI. My opinion is that I'd like to see SNI sort it out with economic reasoning and good articles. Pierre's arguments are most persusasive.

22:07:05 danielpbarron: !rated napedia

22:07:05 assbot: You rated user napedia on 17-Nov-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: https://twitter.com/napoleon/status/534321538657308672.

22:07:10 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.napedia:236b863d49c33ccac6b3b7a47ecb08b435f106b4d2d9f1dbf751cb9579a851a5

22:07:10 assbot: Successfully unrated napedia

22:07:33 shinohai: danielpbarron is thinning out the herd O.o

22:08:43 danielpbarron: heh, my list was getting a little too long to fit in my head so to speak

22:09:11 guruvan: seems like people round here need bigger heads

22:09:30 danielpbarron: a year is long enough. picking out the ones with old dates mostly

22:09:46 danielpbarron: ;;seen dionyziz

22:09:46 gribble: dionyziz was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 17 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <dionyziz> Bye for now.

22:09:58 danielpbarron: !rated dionyziz

22:09:58 assbot: You rated user dionyziz on 06-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: OpenBazaar, http://twitter.com/dionyziz.

22:10:05 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.dionyziz:4934dc5af58b6fd8461a8a34e055cb688a1943e719d247506c3acfded7a455bc

22:10:05 assbot: Successfully unrated dionyziz

22:11:07 *: danielpbarron dusts off hands

22:15:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056911 = 21.6558 BTC [-] {2}

22:17:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14483 @ 0.00057349 = 8.3059 BTC [+] {3}

22:23:22 shinohai: http://news.softpedia.com/news/avast-safezone-browser-lets-attackers-access-your-filesystem-499990.shtml /me likes how antivurs companies that can't protect computers from viruses think their luck will be better at web browsers.

22:23:31 shinohai: *antivirus

22:32:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14128 @ 0.00057382 = 8.1069 BTC [+] {2}

22:33:23 mircea_popescu: guruvan> seems like people round here need bigger heads <<< i thought "the consensus" was b-a heads already too big

22:48:10 ben_vulpes: ;;seen naphex

22:48:10 gribble: naphex was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Naphex> .

22:49:09 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yo what happened with xotika?

22:49:18 mircea_popescu: no idea.

22:50:53 ben_vulpes: heh anyways i just cracked xotika, picked a random feed and whaddaya know the last frame of the bloomberg video that autoplayed itself is superimposed on this poor girl's face

22:51:23 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hurt Naphex' feelings with the camho piece?

22:52:26 ben_vulpes: the thing has like 4 girls online atm

22:52:45 shinohai: !up pussyfreak

22:52:49 mircea_popescu: uh i dun see it. guy was gonna do some things, then got sick, then came back, then never did the things. i dunno, lost interest or w/e.

22:53:04 pussyfreak: cheers

22:53:13 mircea_popescu: i'm not exactly in the business of pushing people to do things.

22:53:18 mircea_popescu: who're you pussyfreak ?

22:53:37 pussyfreak: i'm a friend of shinohai

22:53:50 pussyfreak: bitcoiner

22:54:38 shinohai: Programs in Java but I won't hold it against him.

22:54:46 shinohai: pollon.

22:54:47 pussyfreak: xD

22:54:53 pussyfreak: mostly nodejs these days

22:54:56 pussyfreak: thankfully

22:55:32 maqp: mircea_popescu: I looked at the backlog someone linked me and I wanted to address one thing about TFC using it

22:55:50 maqp: since you and ascii_rear disapproved

22:55:58 mircea_popescu: link to the line in log for context ?

22:56:04 maqp: sure just a second

22:56:28 maqp: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-2-2016#1399034

22:56:28 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 17:03:55; punkman: also uses dbus to talk to pidgin

22:57:18 maqp: I completely agree with ioerror on that "pidgin is a flock of zero-days flying in formation"

22:57:38 maqp: However, the entire computer Pidgin is running on is not part of the trusted computing base.

22:58:37 mircea_popescu: i think we understand that yeah.

22:58:40 maqp: plaintext input, output, encryption, decryption, key generation and storage happens on separate computers

22:58:44 maqp: great <:

22:59:14 mircea_popescu: that was my point : that if he was going to barf over tor, which doesn't actually matter or significantly touch the scheme, might as well pick any other random unrelated item

22:59:27 maqp: So Pidgin is just a way to transmit ciphertexts from dbus to XMPP server

22:59:29 mircea_popescu: eg pigdin

23:00:21 mircea_popescu: but anyway, tor has a miserable reputation here, publicly due to http://fraudsters.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/ but otherwise ancient.

23:00:22 assbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Te2i8l )

23:03:02 maqp: I'll have to read the article. Tor sucks slides indicate it puts up a fight even against FVEY agencies

23:04:18 maqp: Sure it has it has it's problems. But the only alternative is secure-by-policy VPN

23:04:54 maqp: I'd prefer secure by design approach any time

23:05:56 maqp: But if you find Tor insecure and suspect someone is remotely breaching for example your Tails live session

23:06:08 maqp: Then TFC can really help since Tails and Pidgin only see TFC ciphertexts

23:06:42 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:06:57 mircea_popescu: you should prolly also look into the vaporware that still is gossipd.

23:07:04 maqp: So breaking the anonymity won't reveal content of chat that could compromise their identity

23:07:26 maqp: Vaporware?

23:09:01 mircea_popescu: it's this secure communication thing dreamed up by b-a.

23:09:04 mircea_popescu: !s gossipd

23:09:04 assbot: 239 results for 'gossipd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossipd

23:09:17 mircea_popescu: we've not really got around to doing much practically with it.

23:14:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36541 @ 0.00056961 = 20.8141 BTC [-] {2}

23:17:15 hanbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin/nodes << dude srsly who named their node "mine", how the fuck'm i gonna search logs for it.

23:17:16 assbot: the_real_bitcoin:nodes [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkrP9b )

23:18:57 maqp: are you referring to this? https://github.com/JosephSWilliams/urcd

23:18:59 assbot: GitHub - JosephSWilliams/urcd ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rz31nT )

23:20:58 hanbot: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-09-2015#1280954 << mircea_popescu, care to better dub the poor thing?

23:20:58 assbot: Logged on 21-09-2015 11:51:55; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla missing

23:21:28 maqp: "URC can be as private and secure as military systems"

23:21:45 mircea_popescu: hanbot iirc that one's dead.

23:22:16 mircea_popescu: maqp no, it's a not-yet implemented, not-yet fully designed irc/pigdin/mail/etc replacement

23:22:19 kakobrekla: on that matter, how are you going to search for 'v'?

23:22:29 mircea_popescu: myeah

23:22:54 kakobrekla: or other single letter contraptions.

23:23:45 maqp: Is there a memo on that design?

23:24:40 phf: maqp: http://fraudsters.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/

23:24:41 assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nRGplr )

23:24:43 maqp: (IMO you should be spending your efforts on Ricochet or fork it.)

23:25:02 maqp: Ok, I'll skim it

23:26:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00056807 = 11.5602 BTC [-] {2}

23:27:32 hanbot: kakobrekla vspace isn't too horrid, aside from the voice stuff...which i guess makes it an unfortunate choice. at least it's not a heh.

23:27:42 hanbot: mircea_popescu oic.

23:28:00 maqp: I see nothing being discussed about forward secrecy or deniability

23:28:02 phf: maqp: that was the original proposal, that outlines some principles, but there's been a lot of discussion in the logs about it

23:28:11 mircea_popescu: maqp neither of these are of any interest here.

23:28:30 maqp: So it's a secure chat with track record?

23:28:37 maqp: Have you discussed the threat model?

23:29:23 mircea_popescu: you'll probably get overloaded with reading material, but anyway, the general idea is that only children could possibly imagine anonimity is a sufficient substitute for lack of sovereignity. a reasona . a discussion in more detail is in http://fraudsters.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/

23:29:25 assbot: Anonimity, or the urban versus rural dispute. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nWP4nr )

23:32:59 maqp: The article steers away from infosec discourse faster than CRC32 collision. I skipped to the end--

23:33:17 kakobrekla: !s v -!v

23:33:18 assbot: 0 results for 'v -!v' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=v+-%21v

23:33:22 kakobrekla: muh

23:33:49 mircea_popescu: well it would, because we don't even agree on what "infosec" is.

23:34:32 maqp: There's nothing bad being a Moose. It can be hard to be a moose when your family is being tortured in another room when you chose not to use anonymity to hide participation in dissidence movement

23:34:48 maqp: I think we need both

23:34:54 mircea_popescu: people with families do not belong in "dissidence movements", providing such exist.

23:35:41 maqp: it depends on how well they can weigh the threat and what track record the tools of their OPSEC have

23:36:17 mircea_popescu: no, they philosophically have no business there. once you've decided to settle down and reproduce, you've by that token accepted the world as is, declared your own submission to it and all that.

23:36:34 maqp: It doesn't have to be a family, it might be a parent, friend, someone we look up to

23:36:35 mircea_popescu: what's this game of everythingsies, i wanna be tanned but also untanned and sit in the sun and the moon at the same time bla bla.

23:36:46 mircea_popescu: if you are the sort of person who cares, you are the sort of person who cares.

23:37:05 mircea_popescu: no amount of "infosec" is going to change the fact that for any discussion on these lines, you go with the sucker herd.

23:38:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-01-2016#1382256 << something like that.

23:38:05 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.

23:41:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15097 @ 0.00056651 = 8.5526 BTC [-] {2}

23:42:58 maqp: Well, we must depend on those who are able to do something then given their current social and societal situation

23:44:23 maqp: But I fail to see the rat in the sewer, when you're giving the government a finger by bouncing traffic across the globe

23:44:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16845 @ 0.00056083 = 9.4472 BTC [-] {2}

23:45:29 mircea_popescu: well now you lost me.

23:46:12 maqp: So the urban vs rural talks about anonymity being a "rat in a sewer"

23:46:20 mircea_popescu: anyway, the model gossipd is supposed to use is, you pass along traffic to your peers, if you're satisfied that it comes from either youself or a peer. it's a sort of messaging-over-wot. exactly like v works.

23:46:48 maqp: v works?

23:47:01 mircea_popescu: v does work yes, it's how bitcoin is installed currently.

23:47:08 phf: ben_vulpes: ty

23:47:10 maqp: v? *

23:47:32 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/02/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system.html << there's a discussion. or if you prefer to see code,

23:47:33 assbot: V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system ... ( http://bit.ly/1nWQIFF )

23:47:39 mircea_popescu: http://thebitcoin.foundation/

23:47:40 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZPY9X )

23:48:56 maqp: Can you give a tldr on how ciphertexts propagate in the network?

23:50:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46400 @ 0.00056019 = 25.9928 BTC [-] {5}

23:50:54 phf: maqp: in case of gossip there's no propagation. it's a p2p where each node, explicitly your peer, makes claims about what was said or heard elsewhere. не веришь, прими за сказку

23:52:01 mircea_popescu: i doubt he speaks russian.

23:52:09 mircea_popescu: let's walk through this maqp

23:52:14 maqp: sure

23:52:38 mircea_popescu: i wish to say "Hi" to you. my peers are X, Y and Z. i encrypt "please say Hi for me to maqp" with X, Y, Z pubkeys.

23:52:59 mircea_popescu: X, Y and Z see this, and if they like me enough, and if they have your pubkey, pass along the Hi to you.

23:54:44 mircea_popescu: basically the whole system is an implementation of "have you heard what X said", but with computers.

23:55:00 maqp: So are you signing the plaintext before you send it to the peer?

23:55:06 mircea_popescu: you are not signing anything.

23:55:17 mircea_popescu: the information you receive is only as good as the trustworthyness of your peers.

23:55:31 maqp: So a friend who holds a grudge on you can change a message?

23:55:35 mircea_popescu: yup.

23:55:39 mircea_popescu: moreover, they should.

23:55:58 mircea_popescu: the power of the system is exactly this : that an attacker doesn't know NOR CAN KNOW if he';s being sybilled to death or not.

23:56:52 maqp: so a secure communication system with no anonymity between peers, no secrecy, no integrity and no authenticity unless all peers are trustworthy

23:57:48 mircea_popescu: complete anonimity between peers more than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of the wot trust.

23:58:41 mircea_popescu: you know, sorta how language works.

23:59:03 maqp: Why couldn't this work on OTR. I have a OTR messaging with my friend and I ask them to relay a message for me to someone peer has on their contacts?

23:59:19 mircea_popescu: you don't know who he has in his contacts.