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Transcript for 07-09-2014, 901 lines:

00:15:59 TheNewDeal: ;;nethash

00:16:00 gribble: 225405912.852

00:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00063455 = 2.8872 BTC [-]

00:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00063186 = 2.1483 BTC [-]

01:15:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00063484 = 6.1262 BTC [+]

01:22:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00063664 = 4.8066 BTC [+]

01:30:41 asciilifeform: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/fergusons_paradox.html

01:30:42 assbot: Ferguson's Paradox

01:49:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4081 @ 0.00063495 = 2.5912 BTC [-]

01:49:19 asciilifeform: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/desmodromics.html

01:49:20 assbot: Desmodromics Camshaft Mechanism

01:49:25 asciilifeform: and many other neat pictures.

02:01:20 asciilifeform: ^ spot the perpetuum mobile.

02:01:49 asciilifeform: !up strup`fndr

02:02:00 asciilifeform: ninjashogun?

02:02:53 asciilifeform: stirrup finder ?

02:02:57 kakobrekla: strup as in poison?

02:03:04 asciilifeform: strup`fndr> hi, yes I am the same person (startup founder, offered services as well.)

02:03:09 asciilifeform: !down strup`fndr

02:03:09 asciilifeform: lol

02:06:11 asciilifeform: ^ anyone who yearns to hear this fellow talk - can turn the required knob.

02:06:44 kakobrekla: lol

02:07:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00063186 = 2.1167 BTC [-]

02:08:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00063154 = 7.1048 BTC [-]

02:16:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00063264 = 3.5428 BTC [+]

02:18:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.0006309 = 15.1416 BTC [-] {2}

02:19:26 asciilifeform: !up strup`fndr

02:47:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00063264 = 7.4968 BTC [+]

03:37:24 TheNewDeal: ThickAsThieves any foia response?

03:55:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00062792 = 6.8757 BTC [-]

03:57:20 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin difficulty to fall before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1040/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.11998 BTC. Current weight: 85,892.

04:06:03 asciilifeform: this is just too good.

04:06:06 asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LQKkpS3b

04:07:11 asciilifeform: assuming mr. spam is, in BingoBoingo's words, an 'unsavoury garnish', i'd like to nominate him for red banner of lenin.

04:07:28 asciilifeform: (obvious. the man is clearly a mole, and doing a terrific hash of his duties on purpose.)

04:09:11 asciilifeform: he can collect his 'order of lenin' right after that chap who burned down a u.s. nuke sub a few years ago.

04:09:33 asciilifeform: (who? him: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/navy-nuclear-submarine-burned-arsonist-scrapped-article-1.1421356)

04:09:33 assbot: Page Not Found

04:11:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6171 @ 0.00062792 = 3.8749 BTC [-]

04:11:49 asciilifeform: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/real-estate-tycoon-larry-glazer-wife-aboard-plane-crashed-jamaica-article-1.1929548 << 'problems' !

04:11:50 assbot: Real estate tycoon Larry Glazer, wife were aboard plane that crashed near Jamaica - NY Daily News

04:12:18 kakobrekla: hrm, if he is really a mole he is doing a terribly poor job :(

04:12:23 Apocalyptic: "i.e. just turn on either the microphone/speakers or monitor/webcam to read and communicate with the cardano)?" you gotta be kidding me...

04:12:24 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: soviet mole.

04:12:29 asciilifeform: in usg.

04:12:41 asciilifeform: hence the one-star performance.

04:12:45 Apocalyptic: who in their right mind would favour such a thing

04:12:46 kakobrekla: lol

04:13:24 asciilifeform: at this point it seems clear - the man is working hard to make us laugh

04:13:32 Apocalyptic: clearly

04:14:24 asciilifeform: clearly he deserves - reward for his efforts.

04:14:26 asciilifeform: and so,

04:14:27 asciilifeform: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Order_of_Lenin_type4.jpg

04:15:22 kakobrekla: o a type 4.

04:19:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00062472 = 1.8742 BTC [-]

04:20:33 asciilifeform: anyone here not familiar with vonnegut's 'mother night' -or- semyonov's 'seventeen moments of spring' ? book or film, either.

04:22:35 asciilifeform: approximately same idea.

04:31:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00062428 = 14.296 BTC [-]

04:36:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9597 @ 0.00062286 = 5.9776 BTC [-] {2}

05:15:59 ThickAsThieves: <+TheNewDeal> ThickAsThieves any foia response? // None reported.

05:16:10 TheNewDeal: :(

05:16:30 ThickAsThieves: At this point I don't care, as it wouldn't really affect the market price to find out

05:16:42 ThickAsThieves: but i do have a bet on it...

05:16:45 ThickAsThieves: fukn annoying

05:19:23 TheNewDeal: same

05:43:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00062668 = 7.9588 BTC [+]

05:54:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00062512 = 17.3158 BTC [-]

05:54:12 mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform has seen this said about more than one obscure natural language, it always seems to be a reflection of the linguist's ineptitude, in practice. << quite. it's not true of inuit languages any more it's true of russian.

05:54:32 mircea_popescu: so you have to specify the gender of the teacup in some contexts. does not equate to "speaker can not make ambiguous statements"

05:54:52 mircea_popescu: this is not the case in any natural language, poetry exists anywhere.

05:59:04 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> http://www.mekanizmalar.com/desmodromics.html << i read desdemona in there for some reason, which reminds me of a story. picture youthful mp at maly, for a staging of othello, in russian. now, bearin in mind that in romanian "zdreanta" means rag or figuratively whore, picture youthful mp hearing a very decided othello burst out "davai zdreanta, desdiemona!!1" and go into incontrollable peels of laughter

05:59:05 assbot: Desmodromics Camshaft Mechanism

05:59:05 mircea_popescu: mode

05:59:19 mircea_popescu: to the degree he had to be escorted out by the ushers

06:16:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00062121 = 10.6656 BTC [-] {2}

06:23:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00062553 = 12.0727 BTC [+] {2}

07:08:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4831 @ 0.00062099 = 3 BTC [-]

07:15:07 []bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin over $600 before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1025/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 33(Y):67(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.55600627 BTC. Current weight: 39,112.

08:10:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.0006 = 7.68 BTC [-]

08:35:16 punkman: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746369/We-ll-guards-Scottish-border-Ed-Miliband-reveals-incendiary-plan-new-poll-reveals-vote-knife-edge.html

08:35:16 assbot: We'll put guards on Scottish border: Ed Miliband reveals incendiary plan as Yes camp leads for first time in shock new poll | Mail Online

09:02:39 punkman: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/nobel-chemistry-idUSL5E7L51U620111005

09:02:40 assbot: CORRECTED-UPDATE 3-Ridiculed crystal work wins Nobel for Israeli | Reuters

09:38:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52700 @ 0.00060069 = 31.6564 BTC [+] {3}

09:42:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11975 @ 0.00059784 = 7.1591 BTC [-] {2}

10:05:16 RagnarDanneskjol: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2186186-17-year-old-catches-693-pound-swordfish-off-florida-coast

10:05:17 assbot: 17-Year-Old Catches 693-Pound Swordfish off Florida Coast | Bleacher Report

10:32:34 BingoBoingo: %t

10:32:36 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 24h-Vol: 8k High: 221 Low: 221 VWAP: 221

10:32:48 BingoBoingo: %d

10:32:51 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 276487.09 in 1375 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -85.28

10:33:03 BingoBoingo: %p

10:33:07 atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net

10:33:07 atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 702.47 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s

10:33:10 BingoBoingo: %ob

10:33:11 atcbot: 8k@260 2k@245 35k@221 | 12k@205 85k@198 6k@194

10:34:57 BingoBoingo: %v

10:34:58 atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 1.56M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195

10:56:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00059987 = 5.1289 BTC [+]

11:18:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17350 @ 0.0006015 = 10.436 BTC [+]

11:46:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50541 @ 0.0006015 = 30.4004 BTC [+]

11:57:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00060243 = 5.0303 BTC [+]

12:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00060269 = 14.9768 BTC [+] {2}

12:26:02 BingoBoingo: !mpif

12:26:02 assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00022 BTC [+]

12:39:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00060214 = 2.0172 BTC [-]

12:42:43 xmj: mm

13:00:04 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

13:00:06 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 481.89, Best ask: 481.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 481.93, 24 hour volume: 2712.17222932, 24 hour low: 478.4, 24 hour high: 485.0, 24 hour vwap: 481.38721431

13:07:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7546 @ 0.00060208 = 4.5433 BTC [-] {2}

13:22:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3149 @ 0.00060202 = 1.8958 BTC [-]

13:58:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00060118 = 8.2963 BTC [-]

14:16:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 422 @ 0.00365223 = 1.5412 BTC [-]

14:57:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22149 @ 0.00060143 = 13.3211 BTC [+] {2}

15:10:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12293 @ 0.00060209 = 7.4015 BTC [+]

15:17:10 ThickAsThieves: MPOE will be .0005 soon

15:31:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7901 @ 0.00060198 = 4.7562 BTC [-]

15:42:32 mircea_popescu: gooood morning bitcoin ppls!

15:45:36 ThickAsThieves: http://www.coindesk.com/peter-thiel-fellowship-ethereum-vitalik-buterin/

15:45:36 assbot: $100k Peter Thiel Fellowship Awarded to Ethereum's Vitalik Buterin

15:45:39 ThickAsThieves: :(

15:46:03 mircea_popescu: aaaahahahhha

15:46:13 ThickAsThieves: good morning mircea

15:46:18 ThickAsThieves: sounds like a tv show

15:46:28 ThickAsThieves: Mornings with Mircea!

15:46:39 mircea_popescu: "Thiel stressed the need for his programme while expressing optimism about what this year?s class could achieve"

15:46:42 mircea_popescu: derp.

15:46:51 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i nearly had my radio show in romanian a few years ago.

15:47:24 ThickAsThieves: well considering your Howard Stern similarities, it's a shame it didnt happen

15:47:44 mircea_popescu: in very winchell fashion i insisted the contract include an indemnity clause tho, and well... fell through.

15:48:27 mircea_popescu: romanians are neither very litigious nor is the local fcc very tough, but to make up for it ro publishers are very very poor.

15:49:03 mircea_popescu: but yeah, i'd have listened to it. the shit we talk about with the slavegirls alone would make an hour of excellent show pretty much daily.

15:49:07 ThickAsThieves: how are you liking argentina, in contrast?

15:49:26 mircea_popescu: o, i love argentina.

15:49:32 mircea_popescu: not that they're not poor or anything.

15:50:09 ThickAsThieves: seattle and potland were nice, seattle seems to be very healthy

15:50:42 mircea_popescu: anyway, once ethereum cracks open thiel being interviewed for his complicity in propping the scam will become a prerequsite for any further discussions re collaboration of bitcoin authorities with us authorities.

15:50:45 mircea_popescu: just so we know in advance.

15:51:12 ThickAsThieves: i heard rumors thiel sent a rep to scout Neo, i guess he dodged that one

15:51:44 BingoBoingo: !up Aquent

15:51:49 mircea_popescu: myeah.

15:52:03 BingoBoingo: Aquent: You wouldn't happen to be Thiel by any chance?

15:52:19 Aquent: no lol

15:52:28 BingoBoingo: !down Aquent

15:52:37 ThickAsThieves: heh

15:53:01 mircea_popescu: lmao

15:53:24 ThickAsThieves: "Whenever I see that Thiel is giving away money, I get the goosebumps. How comes that he is always mentioned in connection with PayPal, but almost never in connection with Palantir, Prism, NSA and CIA?"

15:53:57 assbot: Last 9 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3T4KFH5.txt )

15:53:57 BingoBoingo: !b 9

15:54:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves "because guess".

15:54:51 mircea_popescu: fucking us oligarchs will end up with bitcoin community interdictions at this rate

15:54:58 mircea_popescu: until their regime starts fucking conforming to international law.

15:55:03 ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/09/05/alibaba-biggest-ipo-by-market-value-of-all-time/

15:55:03 assbot: Alibaba: Biggest IPO By Market Value of All Time - MoneyBeat - WSJ

15:55:13 mircea_popescu: o hey, i think i had some bets on that

15:55:19 ThickAsThieves: thatll be fun, my guess is all the other tech stocks will suffer

15:55:44 ThickAsThieves: this TSLA is so boring, time for Alibaba!

15:55:44 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/1019/alibaba-ipo-mkt-cap-over-150b-end-of/

15:55:44 assbot: BitBet - Alibaba IPO mkt cap over $150B end of opening day :: 1.63 B (64%) on Yes, 0.92 B (36%) on No | closing in 2 weeks 6 days | weight: 42`661 (100`000 to 1)

15:55:51 mircea_popescu: check out the preciseness of bitbet. 150bn ?

15:56:18 ThickAsThieves: bb has a way

15:57:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00060288 = 21.6132 BTC [+] {4}

16:00:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.40915124 BTC to 15`372 shares, 9167 satoshi per share

16:01:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 4.69195104 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 408 satoshi per share

16:04:17 mircea_popescu: punkman: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/nobel-chemistry-idUSL5E7L51U620111005 <<< i don't think useful original work has EVER not been ridiculed.

16:04:18 assbot: CORRECTED-UPDATE 3-Ridiculed crystal work wins Nobel for Israeli | Reuters

16:04:59 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves 5 before back to 8 or w/e it does ?

16:05:09 BingoBoingo: Moar NBA drama http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11481937/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-selling-team

16:05:10 assbot: Atlanta Hawks owner Bruce Levenson selling team - ESPN

16:05:30 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves 5 before back to 8 or w/e it does ? /// i think i figured out exactly what it does actually

16:05:37 mircea_popescu: whassat ?

16:05:39 mircea_popescu: or secret.

16:05:54 ThickAsThieves: not secret, mike_c is gonna check i think

16:06:16 ThickAsThieves: basically the bot is pegged to a certain conversion value for a specific amount of btc

16:06:48 mircea_popescu: like in reverse ?

16:06:48 ThickAsThieves: the idea being the bot assumes MPOE is worth 80,000btc

16:06:50 ThickAsThieves: and that is some dollar value

16:06:53 ThickAsThieves: they are pegging

16:07:10 mircea_popescu: so it asumes it is worth X dollars practically ?

16:07:14 ThickAsThieves: right

16:07:19 mircea_popescu: so why isn't it going up.

16:07:30 ThickAsThieves: sry

16:07:35 asciilifeform: thiel is also a sponsor of 'urbit'.

16:07:38 ThickAsThieves: it assumes the btc worth

16:07:40 ThickAsThieves: converted

16:07:49 ThickAsThieves: so if btcusd goes down

16:07:53 ThickAsThieves: so does mpoe

16:07:56 asciilifeform: or, more precisely, of mr. yarvin's first full-time toady

16:07:57 mircea_popescu: but if it assumes x btc worth and shares trade in btc it should be stuck at 8

16:08:01 ThickAsThieves: cuz its assets are the btc

16:08:24 *: asciilifeform surprised that no one remembered this

16:08:34 ThickAsThieves: now i'm confusing myself

16:08:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no one said != no one remembered. ppls remember :)

16:08:43 asciilifeform: ahaha

16:08:57 asciilifeform: anyone find it peculiar how small is thiel's prize ?

16:09:02 mircea_popescu: nope.

16:09:16 ThickAsThieves: well he leaks money all over the place

16:09:19 mircea_popescu: cheap whores aren't given expensive prizes for a very good reason

16:09:22 asciilifeform: 100k buys what - a year or two of food and roof in usa somewhere on the cheaper side.

16:09:26 mircea_popescu: that is, if you give them too much money it makes them stupid.

16:09:52 mircea_popescu: give them a little now and a little later they'll be sucking the c0k and doing a good job of it for years.

16:10:02 asciilifeform: or one new electron microscope (and get your food somewhere else)

16:10:41 mircea_popescu: incidentally, it is shocking, outrageous but also very amusing to see just how copy-pasted the final days us is from the peak of romania. it's almost as if instead of the romanian idiots copying teh superior us businessmen, the reverse happened.

16:11:26 asciilifeform: smells more like ussr circa 1988 or so, imho

16:11:30 mircea_popescu: i could prolly write a book of psychoantropology on the topic, but sadly it'd be rather incomprehensible in english without a ton of notes which kinda ruin the whole thing, and for 5 romanians able to read and write it's scarcely worth the year o' work.

16:11:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well obv. they'd be the same thing.

16:12:18 thestringpuller: you know how I know you're not american mircea_popescu : you hate cars

16:12:19 mircea_popescu: actually maybe you should write the book, except in russian. larger market.

16:12:35 mircea_popescu: good thing to do in prison, you know ? as it's requiring memory-only, no tools.

16:12:51 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i dun hate cars ?

16:13:13 mircea_popescu: i dun think much of the concept of everyone being able to have their "own" car

16:13:19 mircea_popescu: but i guess that's what you actually meant.

16:14:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, re the original copy-paste point : i feel like i could practically translate my romanian articles mocking the romanian "press" and its associated "blogosphere" word for word, just substitute names.

16:14:59 mircea_popescu: ridoinculous.

16:16:50 mircea_popescu: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24553/24553-h/24553-h.htm just for teh hell of it.

16:16:50 assbot: Error 403

16:19:01 mircea_popescu: you think i write complicatedly, try morley for a spin

16:21:30 ThickAsThieves: <+thestringpuller> you know how I know you're not american mircea_popescu : you hate cars /// i cant stand driving and all the stuff about cars other than that they get me places

16:22:07 mircea_popescu: i can't stand sucking cock either doesn't mean i hate blowjobs. what's driving to do with it.

16:24:02 ThickAsThieves: my wife is the one that gets new cars, i get the hand-me-downs. yesterday i was positing that i should just sell mine and take cabs or uber or whatever everywhere

16:25:19 mircea_popescu: it works splendidly here. i guess depends on the cab quality

16:25:22 ThickAsThieves: when vacationing driving is also a major drag

16:25:51 mircea_popescu: well, get a girl for that.

16:27:39 ThickAsThieves: so why would S.MPOE go down when BTCUSD goes down?

16:28:20 mircea_popescu: i thought you had a theory

16:29:54 ThickAsThieves: i thought i did too, seems to merely be an observation for now

16:33:23 thestringpuller: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/10-year-old-boy-autism-treated-police-state/

16:33:23 assbot: This is How a 10-Year-Old Boy With Autism is Treated in a Police State | The Free Thought Project

16:34:00 mircea_popescu: "Currently the leadership of the House of Savoy is contested by two cousins: Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples, who used to claim the title of King of Italy, and Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta, who still claims the title of the Duke of Savoy. Their rivalry has not always been peaceful ? on May 21, 2004, following a dinner held by King Juan Carlos I of Spain on the eve of the wedding of his son Felipe, Prince of Astur

16:34:00 mircea_popescu: ias, Vittorio Emanuele punched Amedeo twice in the face."

16:34:24 thestringpuller: This problem has to do with society.s dependence upon state sanctioned force to solve problems.

16:36:00 mircea_popescu: i don't see much in that. so some asshole kid thinks himself special, got roughed up in the slightest.

16:36:05 mircea_popescu: how is this supposed to be a problem again ?

16:38:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cars << another thing in usa. more or less everybody is condemned to be his own cabbie, and to some extent, mechanic

16:38:23 mircea_popescu: that works great for 16yo boys.

16:38:53 asciilifeform: which is why we're more or less doomed to drive cabs (the lucky ones, that is) around the world, far more certainly than soviet emigres were

16:39:34 mircea_popescu: it's not such a bad fate.

16:39:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00059994 = 8.9991 BTC [-] {2}

16:39:57 mircea_popescu: o wow that's a first innit

16:40:03 mircea_popescu: well done tat for callin' it.

16:40:16 asciilifeform: then again i'm not certain any country will recognize american driver's licenses when the hour comes.

16:40:35 asciilifeform: for entirely practical reasons.

16:41:02 mircea_popescu: they're not neatly that bad drivers.

16:41:06 mircea_popescu: i've seen much worse.

16:41:38 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: why you hatin' on fixin' cars

16:41:42 thestringpuller: dis is murica

16:42:10 thestringpuller: i just saw an turbo charged e30 that puts ~450hp to the wheels

16:42:42 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'tis one thing if you like oil, dirt, metal (matter of fact - i do) but another if you're stuck with them whether or not you do

16:43:30 thestringpuller: ah. the dilemma of "We're murica, you must own car"

16:43:36 thestringpuller: even if you don't want to

16:43:55 mircea_popescu: you know i lived there just fine w/o driving or owning a car.

16:43:55 thestringpuller: not so much in the big cities tho (NYC, Boston, etc.)

16:44:21 thestringpuller: public transit doesn't reach where I live

16:44:27 asciilifeform: not impossible - but difficult if work for a living

16:44:33 thestringpuller: I have to bike 7 miles to the nearest bus stop

16:44:43 thestringpuller: which isn't effective for commuting...

16:45:03 mircea_popescu: i never biked.

16:45:13 mircea_popescu: but they had a towncar service that would basically go anywhere.

16:46:17 thestringpuller: i guess this is why Uber is becoming so overvalued...

16:46:29 thestringpuller: because of suburbia with poor rapid transit

16:48:17 asciilifeform: 'Recently I heard a story on NPR about a poor family that went around looking for discounted food items at various groceries and stopping at the food pantry?in their own private minivan! And so here is a poor family that owns what in many parts of the world would amount to a bus company!' (orlov)

16:48:32 asciilifeform: (npr is an american government-funded radio station)

16:48:39 mircea_popescu: well not that many. maybe guatemala and assimilated shitholes.

16:49:47 asciilifeform: fact is - much of the cost of owning vehicle in usa - is a fixed cost, whether or not it moves

16:50:07 mircea_popescu: it's really not THAT expensive.

16:50:10 asciilifeform: and so, everybody owns - a taxi. and some, even a bus or garbage truck.

16:50:25 asciilifeform: but for some odd reason aren't cabbies, bus drivers, or garbagemen

16:50:50 asciilifeform: $posint is expensive to the man who is flat broke

16:51:10 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is a fixed cost, whether or not it moves << this isn't true

16:51:34 thestringpuller: the cost is always depreciating especially if it doesn't move

16:51:37 thestringpuller: slowly to 0

16:51:52 thestringpuller: unless you own like a cold war volvo

16:52:00 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it's approximately true - most folks pay insurance (mandatory) and usually bought the machine on credit (so, they pay and pay)

16:52:21 asciilifeform: neither is strongly connected to how often it moves.

16:52:29 artifexd: If anybody is curious, I know why MPOE is falling.

16:52:37 mircea_popescu: shoot ?

16:52:41 artifexd: The reason is simple: I bought some.

16:52:45 mircea_popescu: haha

16:52:57 mircea_popescu: well don't buy anymore then lol

16:53:06 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: oh yes in that sense! i was thinking of how there is an increasing cost to keep the car moving

16:53:07 artifexd: I need to DCA

16:53:18 jurov: oh there's mandatory car insurance in the us, too? so sooooocialist!

16:53:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the credit part is stupid.

16:53:35 mircea_popescu: jurov look, if you let poor people drive, there's no way to not have mandatory insurance.

16:53:41 mircea_popescu: otherwise they are incentivised to drive poorly.

16:54:42 thestringpuller: rich people buy vehicles on credit too

16:54:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which part is stupid? most of these people couldn't hope to buy so much as a plastic&cardboard 'trabant' without massive credit

16:55:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then let them walk.

16:55:35 thestringpuller: in a land without infrastructure?

16:55:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as discussed in the past - the various u.s. castes have, for reasons of their own (ask them!) decided never to live in walking distance of one another, if it can be helped

16:55:46 thestringpuller: better off to tell them to just die

16:56:00 mircea_popescu: ok, so let them just die.

16:56:17 mircea_popescu: just because it's practically inconvenient doesn't make it less the correct solution.

16:56:24 asciilifeform: death is free, at least, for king and slave alike.

16:56:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this convention, like all things man made, is attendant on it being possible.

16:57:11 mircea_popescu: if they can't have had so agreed, they in fact didn't so agree.

16:58:44 asciilifeform: at the risk of sounding like orlov - modern 'machine civilization' tends to create wildly thermodynamically-unfavourable situations like this one.

16:59:06 asciilifeform: what usa does with transport is not unlike housing, e.g., penguins in sahara

16:59:13 mircea_popescu: it creates the POSSIBILITY of it asciilifeform. not the actuiality and not really the obligaiton.

16:59:19 asciilifeform: goes on for so long as you have infinite joules to throw at the problem.

16:59:34 mircea_popescu: much like cellars create the possibility of very uncomfortable sleep in the dank darkness.

16:59:34 mircea_popescu: nobody forces you to sleep in the fucking basement

16:59:34 mircea_popescu: or to rent basements to live in

16:59:38 asciilifeform: more like the olympic drugs.

16:59:42 asciilifeform: can -> must

16:59:55 mircea_popescu: you can always die.

16:59:59 mircea_popescu: this is so easily discarded.

17:00:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever captured a mouse ?

17:00:32 asciilifeform: sure!

17:00:45 mircea_popescu: want me to tell you the story of my recent adventure with a cute little fuzzball ?

17:00:58 *: asciilifeform killed the last two in old flat with own hands

17:01:20 *: asciilifeform lacked cat

17:01:25 asciilifeform: yes - story

17:01:55 mircea_popescu: so last autumn i was living in a recently developped residential area - i guess what would be a gated community in the us, except romanians don't gate.

17:02:09 mircea_popescu: for centuries prior, that land had been - how do you call fields cultrivated with hay ?

17:02:18 asciilifeform: pasture ?

17:02:37 mircea_popescu: something like that. so one night while in here, i see movement in the corner of my eye

17:03:24 mircea_popescu: so i know it's a mouse, right ? and so i get a large bowl, and tape some floss to a pack of ciggs. put some cheese under the propper bowl and get back to chatting.

17:03:53 mircea_popescu: a little later, the guy is caught, of course. so i put him in a large glass jar with a metal lid, after punching some holes with a screwdriverr in that lid.

17:04:40 mircea_popescu: and i get a good look at the guy, you know ? after all, this had been his land for a long long time, generations of his forefathers had hunted for hayseeds and whatnot on complicated , traditional walk patters all over the field of my garden

17:05:02 mircea_popescu: what did he do ? he kept jumping. trying to push the lid off with his tiny nose. ding-ding-ding-ding

17:05:13 asciilifeform: lemme guess, little bugger died of exhaustion

17:05:48 mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that the lid was you know, on a thread for crying out loud. and since i punched the holes from outside, notwithstanding that there were jagged shards of metal pointing his way, which he could i guess sorta- avoid. tho he mostly looked to be jumping blindly.

17:06:19 mircea_popescu: eventually i was oh enough of this shit, and so put the vessel on its side.

17:06:19 mircea_popescu: so it stopped jumping.

17:06:20 mircea_popescu: instead, it kept trying to chew sheet metal with it's truely tiny, half mm in width teeth.

17:06:27 mircea_popescu: and it never stopped.

17:06:48 mircea_popescu: the animal's desire of freedom properly surpassed any consideration of self preservation.

17:07:05 mircea_popescu: which is why i eventually stood up from my fucking work, took it to a vacant field further down and let it be.

17:07:37 mircea_popescu: now - the point here being that a correct set of priorities will in fact move mountains, and my work at my computer as compared in any perspective to a mouse's activities is mountaineous.

17:07:51 mircea_popescu: so : let them fucking die trying. you can't live where you are ? walk to where you can live.

17:07:56 mircea_popescu: die on the road, it's a noble death.

17:08:59 asciilifeform: u.s. motto could be: st augustine's prayer, 'god grant me chastity - but not yet'

17:09:06 mircea_popescu: it's also why i tend to be suspicious of people that despise animals. generally it's the sign they're not as intellectually respectable as the average field mouse.

17:09:44 mircea_popescu: when they start with the "we're not animals" bits, i tend to glaze over and think "no, you're not, are you".

17:09:47 asciilifeform: most people, esp. in infested dwellings, are quite particular about which animals they like

17:10:15 mircea_popescu: well sure, but this was as to the general

17:12:18 asciilifeform: i actually 'liked' the rats in that flat quite a bit more than the mice. the latter - shat every quarter metre they walked, or so it seemed. the rats - more disciplined, organized, had battalions, detachments - respectable.

17:12:26 mircea_popescu: lol

17:12:48 mircea_popescu: mebbe your rats were overfed

17:12:54 mircea_popescu: mice i mean.

17:13:41 asciilifeform: possible.

17:14:11 asciilifeform: rats, it is said, even have penal battalions, used as scouts.

17:14:32 asciilifeform: after finally killed one in an electrical trap, the entire force retreated to a neighbour's.

17:15:05 BingoBoingo: Maybe asciilifeform has the actual NIMH rats

17:15:09 mircea_popescu: i thought it's just the young/shitty ones

17:15:26 mircea_popescu: lol this here is the premise of a decent speculative spy fiction story

17:15:26 *: asciilifeform does not know precisely how rats assign rank

17:15:40 mircea_popescu: usg makes mechanical spy rat, person catches it because well, it doesn't properly batallion

17:15:56 asciilifeform: this almost happened:

17:16:44 asciilifeform: usg caught an alley cat, tamed, and implanted a listening device, then released (in moscow, i think)

17:16:54 asciilifeform: the poor beast promptly got run over by a bus.

17:17:13 mircea_popescu: "problems" ?

17:17:28 asciilifeform: or just not quite right.

17:17:32 mircea_popescu: lol

17:18:35 asciilifeform: as for mice, if they have organizational abilities, this was not apparent in my kitchen.

17:20:22 mircea_popescu: you know, this was the first mice i've seen in a decade.

17:20:28 asciilifeform: and yes, animals will fight to the death, to exhaustion - what else might one expect them to do? negotiate a conditional surrender with the mousetrap? a ceasefire with the glass jar ?

17:20:30 mircea_popescu: the last set being in egypt for crying out loud.

17:20:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will notice that he could have just resisted the glass jar through culture.

17:20:57 mircea_popescu: ;;google "rezistenta prin cultura"

17:20:57 gribble: Rezistenţa prin cultură - TVR+: http://www.tvrplus.ro/emisiune-rezistenta-prin-cultura-351; Andrei Plesu despre rezistenta prin cultura - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxzvAkbjP98; Rezistenţa prin cultură - Alice Voinescu - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUm4to0vQtQ

17:21:22 mircea_popescu: and of course, the definitive words on that topic, http://fraudsters.com/2010/vina-batranilor/

17:21:25 assbot: Vina batranilor pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

17:22:24 asciilifeform: mice have not yet invented smoking dope, and so do not know how to 'resist through culture'

17:22:53 mircea_popescu: except the romanian "intellectuals" and for that matter the zeks got no dope.

17:24:53 asciilifeform: i suppose a handful of natural schizoids, and slavish imitation thereof, can substitute for dope.

17:25:09 mircea_popescu: no, dope doesn't enter into it. all that's required is the proposition that surviving today is more important than living well.

17:25:21 mircea_popescu: something of which mice are malignantly made the figurehead of. they are not.

17:28:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00059946 = 7.1935 BTC [-] {2}

17:32:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sex anal cu tractoare, motocositoare si combine agricole >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mVOd8zY3D8 << 'in Flyshitte, in the Red Corpse Kolhoz... there lived Tractoresse!'

17:32:10 assbot: . [HD] - YouTube

17:32:23 asciilifeform: ^ song about the harm of studying mathematics.

17:32:59 mircea_popescu: lol

17:33:23 oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/pretaliation/

17:33:23 assbot: pretaliation

17:33:51 asciilifeform: 'she plowed all the fields... for wheat, but not also for scalars, vectors, and even galois fields...'

17:33:55 asciilifeform: *now also

17:35:11 mircea_popescu: tractoritza lol. that's exactly how you'd say it in romanian.

17:35:29 mircea_popescu: how diminutives work. victoria - victorица

17:37:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: slightly different in ru. e.g., минетчица ~= 'blowjobesse', тракторица ~= 'tracroresse' - in same sense as Fr. 'comedienne.'

17:37:44 mircea_popescu: in romanian comedienne is formed as the diminutive. comediette.

17:37:53 cazalla: nothing like someone using a chainsaw at 3am to wake you up

17:37:54 asciilifeform: aha.

17:38:01 mircea_popescu: cazalla good mornin'.

17:38:06 asciilifeform: cazalla: 'find some meat!'

17:38:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thus doctor - doctorita. literally, little-she doctor.

17:40:04 asciilifeform: Мухосранск ~= 'flyshit', analogous to american 'bumfuck, illinois.' proverbial agropesthole.

17:42:01 cazalla: asciilifeform, would be nice but they're cutting down trees

17:42:37 cazalla: chainsaw wakes me but baby never does, just the wife, she is still sleeping, didn't hear chainsaw

17:43:00 mircea_popescu: clearly you're tuned for machinery and she's tuned to babies.

17:43:58 cazalla: i've read that before, i assume because the fathers need sleep to hunt the next day

17:44:03 jurov: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2014-09-06-zeroing-buffers-is-insufficient.html

17:44:04 assbot: Zeroing buffers is insufficient

17:45:18 asciilifeform: jurov: as usual, author stops half-way.

17:45:29 mircea_popescu: i came back to say "wait, that's only part of the story"

17:45:32 mircea_popescu: i don't read fast enough.

17:46:24 jurov: i got an idea about virtualization - i foubt any hypervisor erases SSE registers betweeen guests

17:46:28 jurov: *doubt

17:46:38 jurov: (not mentioned in tfa at all, fo course)

17:48:48 asciilifeform: let's suppose that you cannot escape the sin of running crypto on a multiuser os with von neumann cpu (for sake of argument.) let's also suppose that you are stuck with a traditional 'C' compiler, and your work must remain portable (no inline asm)

17:49:04 mircea_popescu: "decided to sanitize his stack by zeroing until he triggered a page fault" this in particular does nothing.

17:49:06 asciilifeform: even then - can simply declare 'volatile'

17:49:20 asciilifeform: if your compiler does not respect 'volatile' - throw it out

17:49:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the os may not respect volatile.

17:50:17 asciilifeform: a sufficiently dumb os won't provide a way of allocating non-paged heap, yes.

17:50:33 mircea_popescu: the problem is unresolvable : without cryptographically verified multi-user ability, there is no way to run crypto on shared system.

17:50:38 jurov: he's writing about registers, not memory.. but then, on one side they get wiped on context switch

17:50:49 mircea_popescu: how to make an os that behaves "provalby fair", for that matter, ios still very much an open question

17:50:49 jurov: on other side, they get saved into..memory

17:51:00 asciilifeform: 'provably fair' ?

17:51:02 asciilifeform: in what sense

17:51:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. ie, that you can cryptographically verify that no other user can read your space, ever, at all.

17:51:36 mircea_popescu: this includes any and all superusrs.

17:51:55 asciilifeform: superusers << 'god creates stone, so heavy, he can't lift'

17:52:02 asciilifeform: what even means 'superuser' in such a machine

17:52:03 asciilifeform: ?

17:52:12 mircea_popescu: one that can start/stop it.

17:52:20 mircea_popescu: as an obvious definition.

17:52:40 asciilifeform: starts, stops - but can't saw it open ?

17:52:47 mircea_popescu: even should he saw it open.

17:52:59 mircea_popescu: it's an unresolved problem for good reason eh.

17:53:00 jurov: you are prolly talking about cpu that guarantees no unencrypoted data leaves its internal cache?

17:53:28 mircea_popescu: in principle you should be able to define an object whose malleability allows enough functions to work so as to be turing-complete.

17:53:47 mircea_popescu: jurov no. i am talking about an os that only processes encrypted data.

17:53:58 mircea_popescu: the no-raw-machine/

17:54:13 asciilifeform: !s paillier

17:54:14 assbot: 7 results for 'paillier' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=paillier

17:54:23 asciilifeform: solvable for particular meanings of 'process'

17:54:25 mircea_popescu: yeah, that may be a good starting point

17:54:30 mircea_popescu: bjt kd

17:54:46 mircea_popescu: but ideally - while i can live without running a webserver off this - i still want to have bash

17:54:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27706 @ 0.00060102 = 16.6519 BTC [+]

17:55:56 mircea_popescu: Consider the "XMM" registers on the x86 architecture: They will only be used by the SSE family of instructions, which is not widely used in most applications ? so once a value is stored in one of those registers, it may remain there for a long time. One of the rare instances those registers are used by cryptographic code, however, is for AES computations, using the "AESNI" instruction set.

17:56:03 mircea_popescu: one of the best reasons to not use aes seriously.

17:56:08 mircea_popescu: i wasn't aware this is public knowledge.

17:56:37 asciilifeform: you're just as fucked if you use another cipher via, e.g, microshit's vendor lib

17:56:54 mircea_popescu: but this is universal, nothing to do with ms.

17:56:57 jurov: mircea you know of any crypto that doesn't need registers?

17:57:06 asciilifeform: no one forces you to use intel's aes instructions!

17:57:31 mircea_popescu: jurov im pretty sure it all does, but they don';t all have to be xmm via aesni

17:57:47 asciilifeform: next year, suppose, they include a gigantic multiplier and special instructions for rsa. want to use these ?

17:57:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "no one" ? yes, one. the machine may force you to whether you want to or not.

17:57:54 mircea_popescu: you don;'t know what it does.

17:58:22 jurov: xmm registers aren't anything exceptional. os saves them into memory on context switch like everything else

17:58:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fundamental misunderstanding. machine does not know (unless it is fiendishly complicated, and elaborately trapped, perhaps) that you are doing, e.g., rsa.

17:58:38 mircea_popescu: jurov the discussion was as to how often they get overwritten

17:59:03 asciilifeform: but the cpu manual offers compiler writers the option of using 'our new exciting accelerator for 4096-bit chinese remainder theorem'

17:59:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think you're thinking of the case where you compile your thing and install it as bytecode. i was thinking of the case where you compile locally.

17:59:30 mircea_popescu: more properly, "was at some ptoint compiled locally"

17:59:57 asciilifeform: compiler can use 'fancy' instruction that does various things 'in one shot' - or can use ordinary i386-style fixint multiply, etc.

18:00:39 mircea_popescu: It gets worse. Nearly every AES implementation using AESNI will leave two values in registers: The final block of output, and the final round key. The final block of output isn't a problem for encryption operations ? it is ciphertext, which we can assume has leaked anyway ? but for encryption an AES-128 key can be computed from the final round key, and for decryption the final round key is the AES-128 key. (For AES

18:00:39 mircea_popescu: -192 and AES-256 revealing the final round key provides 128 bits of key entropy.)

18:00:41 mircea_popescu: good article.

18:00:52 asciilifeform: likewise compiler has the option of pissing out 'xor reg, reg' etc - clean up after yourself

18:01:03 mircea_popescu: i guess the author doesn't realise it or something, but this lays bare a much used, fundamental, very valuable exploit of aes.

18:02:07 asciilifeform: to see this as issue with aes in particular is a grave mistake. it's an issue with using a 'food chain' that you aren't intimately aware of to the bottom.

18:02:43 mircea_popescu: in practice it's used as an aes hole. but yes.

18:02:48 asciilifeform: consider the problems dr. evil faces when he designs a diddled cpu.

18:03:12 asciilifeform: he wants to know when you - victim - will be deciphering/signing battle plan.

18:03:38 asciilifeform: chip will transmit plan to waiting gasenwagen with antennae, over power line hiss.

18:03:51 asciilifeform: but first it needs to know when to begin and end transmission

18:04:19 asciilifeform: because it would not do to transmit constantly (might interfere with neighbour's teledildotron and she'll tip you off)

18:05:28 asciilifeform: it is, in principle, possible for dr. evil's cpu to recognize when, e.g, given version of gpg is in the process of taking the modular exponentiation.

18:05:45 asciilifeform: but this would take up a good deal of real estate on the chip die, and someone might notice.

18:06:07 mircea_popescu: that's nonsense. here's a simpler approach : every time a new value is loaded into sse register append it to a special buffer. buffer gets dumped in return for any packet headed so sent to port so.

18:06:13 asciilifeform: instead - why not fool you - victim - to let the cpu know precisely when it is handling private key.

18:06:17 asciilifeform: so it can begin sending.

18:06:22 mircea_popescu: it's "for debugging purspoes"

18:07:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: baked. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1441

18:07:09 assbot: Loper OS » Mechanics of FLUXBABBITT.

18:07:14 mircea_popescu: exactly.

18:07:57 asciilifeform: but have some sympathy for poor dr. evil. he only has, what, half a dozen vans in a city. doesn't care to sift through every idiot playing 'quake' pissing in his sse regs.

18:08:09 asciilifeform: only want to hear rsa key. (or aes, whatever.)

18:08:30 mircea_popescu: orly ?

18:08:41 mircea_popescu: afaik that's exactly what he wants : to inflate the categories.

18:08:50 asciilifeform: so he begins with cheapest variant - politely asks microshit to include convenient crypto routines in os.

18:08:54 mircea_popescu: if he can get paid to listen to rsa keys buyt then for "technical reasons" can make that baloon 10x,

18:08:54 mircea_popescu: he'

18:08:57 mircea_popescu: s thrilled to do it.

18:08:58 asciilifeform: which conveniently record key and mail it off.

18:08:59 mircea_popescu: more money.

18:09:15 asciilifeform: then somebody finds it. or miscreants start using illegal111 os without said feature.

18:09:28 asciilifeform: so now dr. evil needs to sell nice, convenient cpu with baked in crypto

18:09:43 asciilifeform: amazing aes! fast.

18:09:43 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

18:10:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.0005989 = 20.4225 BTC [-] {3}

18:11:06 asciilifeform: notice when diddled cpus are commonly thought to have appeared. not only when vlsi went far enough to create a comfortable padded hiding place, but when spread of linux, etc. exposed the limits of the diddled-os approach.

18:16:48 mircea_popescu: heh.

18:17:28 mircea_popescu: im sure thiel will give 100k prizes to whoever came up with the brilliant idea of a wait, no. they don't need it.

18:21:01 asciilifeform: lol

18:24:54 bitstein: More usability nonsense. Trusted servers are soooo much better than PGP, right? http://www.wired.com/2014/09/oxguard/

18:24:55 assbot: The Open Source Tool That Lets You Send Encrypted Emails to Anyone | Enterprise | WIRED

18:25:19 mircea_popescu: "encrypt" your emails to everyone. it's good for the emails and ok for you!

18:26:35 bitstein: Loved your post on usability, btw.

18:29:02 *: mircea_popescu waves

18:32:17 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how difficult does this procedure look: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/pictures-how-to-replace-an-snes-cartridge-save-game-battery

18:33:46 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: soldering lithium 'clock' batteries will dramatically shorten their life - and possibly explode

18:33:52 asciilifeform: unless done with a spot welder or laser

18:34:27 thestringpuller: damn so this guy is an idiot?

18:34:34 thestringpuller: :( I guess I'm not saving games anytime soon

18:34:35 asciilifeform: not idiot - merely poor

18:34:50 thestringpuller: how much do you charge for electronic surgery?

18:36:35 asciilifeform: i regret to say that i do not run a repair shop.

18:37:23 asciilifeform: i recommend attaching a replacement battery using conductive epoxy.

18:37:28 asciilifeform: this is less than ideal, but will work.

18:42:31 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller heating them is no good for them

18:47:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 4 @ 0.12773454 = 0.5109 BTC [+] {3}

18:50:43 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: alternatively, solder in a battery holder of appropriate shape, and insert battery after it cools.

18:51:09 asciilifeform: (soldered-in batteries are a classic 'forced obsolescence' scam.)

18:52:57 asciilifeform: it doesn't have to be a coin cell, either. can attach one of, say, these - http://www.ictradenet.com/models_pic/BH2AA-W.jpg - to outside of cartridge. drill a hole, attach terminals to correct spots. won't win any beauty contests, but will work.

18:53:21 asciilifeform: use lithium 'aa' cells rather than alkalines, or you won't have >3v when cells are not quite new any more.

19:03:33 kakobrekla: http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

19:03:34 assbot: Manna, Chapter 1, by Marshall Brain

19:06:57 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is this "fast food employee tries to parlay his work experience into a novel, because write what you know" ?

19:07:23 kakobrekla: dunno, just another end game.

19:07:35 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: lol!!! i read that years ago

19:07:57 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: lost the link also long ago. thank you for digging it out

19:08:30 kakobrekla: :)

19:10:41 asciilifeform: this kind of tale will read as utopian hogwash when the -proper- (e.g., with electroshock and mine) collars are issued.

19:11:08 asciilifeform: as pictured in films 'cloud atlas', 'deadlock', etc.

19:11:45 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: thanks for the advice!

19:13:53 decimation: re: lithium batteries << yes the conventional solution is a spring-clip style battery holder if one can't spot-weld lead to device

19:14:20 asciilifeform: soldered batteries are an atrocity.

19:14:34 decimation: asciilifeform: but the chinese factory saved several cents!

19:15:16 decimation: not that it really matters anyway, because their production is subsidized by the prc, and the purchaser is subsidized by usg

19:15:17 mircea_popescu: several in the sense of .8

19:18:28 asciilifeform: '"Do you have guest status with any resident?" The robot asked. "No." "Do you have means of support unknown to me?" I suppose I could have stashed a cache of gold under my mattress, and this question allowed me to declare it. Such a cache would, of course, be grounds for arrest, so I was screwed either way. "No." I was without any means of support. "In accordance with ordinance 605.12b, you have been assigned ro

19:18:28 asciilifeform: om 140352 in building 16, resident quant C. This assignment provides you with suitable housing and nourishment to sustain your life. Please board the bus."'

19:19:54 asciilifeform: great story. how nostalgic! like robert sheckley's 'the academy.' usa was once a rich country, people imagined that they would get to retire into comfortable prisons when an 'age of the robot' comes

19:20:43 decimation: Re: Thiel working with usg << I can't imagine anyone running a 'bank' or 'bank-like' service and not being a spy for usg, it's the law yo

19:21:27 mircea_popescu: it is the law.

19:23:04 asciilifeform: thiel, like his fellows, is less of a baron (with the attendant inviolable privileges) than a... reichsf?hrer. whose lands, posts - are contingent on playing ball and being good boy.

19:24:48 mircea_popescu: well paypal definitely can have problem.

19:25:23 mircea_popescu: but as far as i recall, it was a serious source of friction between the third reich gauleiters and eastern european nobility, that the latter despised the former on the grounds of... well... this, exactly.

19:25:30 asciilifeform: well yes!

19:25:49 mircea_popescu: obviously since we're speaking of germany, an east european power par excellence, these were often the same people.

19:25:50 *: asciilifeform recommends the 'manna' story except for final chapters. just like mircea_popescu's snip of the 'dulap' tale.

19:25:53 asciilifeform: a necessary snip.

19:25:58 mircea_popescu: especially in the army.

19:26:12 mircea_popescu: hence hitler's constant suspicions of being betrayed by teh heer

19:28:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe that's cause for a rewrite.

19:28:24 asciilifeform: paypal is a classic 'crown privilege' monopoly.

19:28:32 asciilifeform: from day one.

19:34:16 mircea_popescu: one can only wonder how the us would have fared had it not turned socialist in 1930.

19:35:12 mircea_popescu: fdr had scarcely the secessionist excuses of lincoln to fuck the country up. without his lame contribution, it'd have stayed in one piece, but perhaps may have survived the 21st century.

19:37:16 decimation: re: hitler < the "old right" nobility and "old republican-style" conservatives in germany gave Hitler control after his party won a minority share because they thought they could 'control him'

19:38:33 mircea_popescu: not rly quite as broad. it was one schmuck

19:38:52 mircea_popescu: von pappen

19:39:45 decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_November_1932 They were all worried about the communists too

19:39:45 assbot: German federal election, November 1932 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

19:40:16 []bot: Bet created: "Euro sinks against USD" http://bitbet.us/bet/1041/

19:41:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 2190 @ 0.00040521 = 0.8874 BTC [-] {2}

19:41:53 []bot: Bet created: "Arrest related to the Fappening" http://bitbet.us/bet/1042/

19:44:02 chetty: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/09/02/warning-world-washington-nato-eu-vassals-insane-paul-craig-roberts-2/

19:44:03 assbot: Warning to the World: Washington and its NATO & EU Vassals are Insane -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org

19:45:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.0006025 = 1.5063 BTC [+]

19:45:47 mircea_popescu: oh, no, it's just that putin i mean roberts "does not understand how the world works"

19:45:51 mircea_popescu: said every insane person ever.

19:48:55 decimation: Imagine if the us were at war with mexico, and russia was openly contemplating sending troops/planes/whatever to the mexican border. people in the us would go apeshit

19:49:09 asciilifeform: 'zimmerman telegram'

19:49:19 mircea_popescu: "The American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian army collapsed under Russian counterattack in 5 hours."

19:49:38 decimation: asciilifeform: one can see a copy hanging in the nsa museum as I recall

19:49:43 mircea_popescu: lol check it out, the russian foreign service is quite active in the fringe of the us discourse. orlov, roberts, there's a list with these talking points.

19:50:15 *: asciilifeform feels like a chump, apparently works for russian foreign service for free, should demand pay

19:50:24 decimation: https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic_heritage/museum/virtual_tour/museum_tour_text.shtml#zimmermann_telegram

19:50:25 assbot: National Cryptologic Museum - NSA/CSS

19:50:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whyssat ?

19:51:18 asciilifeform: because i have no quarrel with anything in that piece - imho, entirely factual.

19:51:36 mircea_popescu: it's not, but before we get there,

19:51:38 mircea_popescu: He was a prime minister of Denmark who saw he could rise beyond Denmark by serving as Washington?s puppet. As prime minister he strongly supported Washington?s illegal invasion of Iraq, declaring that ?we know that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.? Of course, the fool didn?t know any such thing, and why would it matter if Iraq did have such weapons. Many countries have weapons of mass destructi

19:51:38 mircea_popescu: on.

19:51:54 mircea_popescu: isn't it funny how global-warming this sounds ? "we know there is anthropogenic bla bla"

19:52:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't have any issue with anything in that piece either, but this isn't the criteria. the form specifically is what one uses to identify these things.

19:53:17 decimation: To me, mature adults could sit down and hash this stuff out "yes, you can have east Ukraine in exchange for helping us keep a lid on the crazy islams down in the middle east"

19:53:49 asciilifeform: decimation: except that 'crazy islam' is an animal of which usg is a studious gamekeeper.

19:53:59 mircea_popescu: decimation the russians are unable to do anything in the middle east, as proven by their fabulous failures in afghanistan and cecenia. what's worse, they know this, and won't bargain for it.

19:54:02 asciilifeform: (occasional rabid bite nonwithstanding)

19:54:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so. they like to pretend like they are, much like the 11 yo child of a man who keeps fighting dogs pretends to be the master of said dogs for the benefit of any visiting classmates.

19:55:01 decimation: I guess as an american far away from everything I would vastly prefer russian hegemony over asia than crazy islam rule, but somehow my 'leaders' see things differently

19:55:36 asciilifeform: decimation: it is necessary to understand why usg must do what it does. as in a 'wild west' film, 'ain't room enough in this town for the both of us'

19:55:38 mircea_popescu: it really makes no difference. no matter his hair color, a married man is a married man. and so no matter the "ideology", whoever is stuck administering two billion people over ten million acres is similarly caught.

19:56:03 mircea_popescu: they'll do exactly what they can get away with, and no more.

19:56:07 asciilifeform: the worst thing for a totalitarian reich (like usg and its 'international kommunity' muppet theatre) is - the existence of a 'pepsi' alternative.

19:56:21 asciilifeform: i.e. - a place to which thinking men could defect.

19:56:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for the reason that then the coke and the pepsi must bid for my allegiance

19:56:50 mircea_popescu: much in the way mpex has no home unless some territory with pretentions of statality makes an excellent offrt

19:57:08 mircea_popescu: kinda how the holy roman emperor got ground into dust.

19:57:18 asciilifeform: this is key.

19:57:27 decimation: mircea_popescu: and that's my point, for purely practical reasons alone, one would think that the 'married men' who have to deal with reality would prefer a power that has a track record of at least keeping a lid on the crazies at home and showing up to the diplomacy table with things in order

19:57:44 mircea_popescu: decimation nope. in general, sane people would prefer the alternative. perpetually.

19:57:56 mircea_popescu: let nothing ever be "well settled".

19:57:59 asciilifeform: everybody focuses on, e.g., petro-war, when looking for reason for usg bleeding to the bone in effort to undermine russia

19:58:08 asciilifeform: but it's a secondary thing.

19:58:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so. admire this wonder of wonders :

19:58:41 mircea_popescu: these people who use that terminology SAY petro war, but ONLY because in their cluelessness the petro- stands for the symbol you correctly use.

19:59:02 mircea_popescu: ie, you both mean the same thing. if you allow oil to stand for the "root" account of the world, then yes it's petro-war.

19:59:47 jurov: <asciilifeform> because i have no quarrel with anything in that piece - imho, entirely factual. << did anyone confirmed kiev started by murdering civilians?

20:00:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14504 @ 0.00060326 = 8.7497 BTC [+] {2}

20:00:22 decimation: under this petro-war theory, is the us trying to keep russian oil out of the world market? to the detriment of the us?

20:00:23 asciilifeform: jurov: if you ask kiev, the east 'started it' by refusing to fellate nazi cock and speak the west's made-up language

20:00:28 mircea_popescu: jurov dja think this makes a practical difference ?

20:01:00 jurov: ascii says it's "factual"... so i'm asking about the facts

20:01:21 mircea_popescu: decimation the idea is for russian oil to be sold in the manner of oil owned by the us. it doesn't matter who gets paid, as long as the "pay" is in accounts run by thiel, and it all follows kyc etc.

20:01:31 mircea_popescu: same exact play as they're currently trying and failing re bitcoin.

20:02:15 mircea_popescu: jurov ah yea. well, i agreed with his "it's factual", but i never took an absolute view of this factuality. just, as far as it's worth determining, yeah, that's what it was.

20:02:57 decimation: jurov: are you referring to those who were shot while rioting in Kiev?

20:03:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is "nazi cock" anywya ?

20:04:26 asciilifeform: the entire 'great ukrs' national concept. created by brits, then picked up by germany, then - usa, into present time.

20:04:41 asciilifeform: the tired old 'cut 'em up into bantustans, make them a language, etc' recipe.

20:04:46 jurov: as opposed to "great russia"

20:04:57 jurov: ascii, you're so incredibly one sided

20:05:08 jurov: russians are orcs, as well

20:05:39 asciilifeform: like them or not - the russians are historically actual, rather than fictional.

20:05:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what's the beef with the polish-ukrainian confederacy ? just as actual.

20:06:08 asciilifeform: quite.

20:06:17 mircea_popescu: what am i not following here ?

20:07:19 asciilifeform: except that the modern ukrs aren't a resurrected 'Res Publica Polonia' - they're a cheap muppet of usg.

20:07:29 mircea_popescu: but this is not the argument you bring.

20:07:53 mircea_popescu: whether they're well organised or not presently has no bearing on whether they at all exist.

20:07:56 asciilifeform: aha

20:08:06 jurov: donetsk republic are muppets, too

20:08:19 jurov: putins wants strelkov out? okay, off he goes

20:08:25 asciilifeform: this brings up the old discussion of whether the arsonist 'builds' a city

20:08:26 mircea_popescu: which... whatever, just how well they actually exist is reasonably unclear to me. how does slovakia exist or so forth

20:08:44 mircea_popescu: jurov supposedly russia refused them union or somesuch.

20:08:57 jurov: "refused" for now

20:09:02 mircea_popescu: well obviously.

20:09:04 asciilifeform: usg does not have the strength or will to conquer - it merely destroys

20:09:07 jurov: just waiting till it "becomes" inevitable

20:09:09 Azelphur: mircea_popescu: I've accepted that job offer from RagnarDanneskjol btw :)

20:09:16 mircea_popescu: a good for you.

20:09:31 Azelphur: indeed, seems much more my speed, thanks for the recommendation :)

20:09:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is somewhat like saying billy jean does not have the strength or will to form famblies - he merely fucks.

20:09:43 mircea_popescu: well... maybe the girl sucks.

20:09:45 Azelphur: Bitcoin salary, gonna be fun.

20:10:02 asciilifeform: jurov: picture yourself as russian king. do you want to annex ua? if so, for what.

20:10:14 mircea_popescu: bread ?

20:10:32 jurov: asciilifeform "satellite state" says you something?

20:10:39 mircea_popescu: the fact that they were historically more accomplished russians than the muscovy, and earlier so ?

20:10:45 mircea_popescu: the seaside resorts ?

20:11:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's correcting khruschev's wandering pencil, and then real conquest

20:11:46 decimation: I guess putin isn't happy with having a 'near abroad' anymore

20:11:56 jurov: so putin should give kurils to japan too

20:12:01 mircea_popescu: lol right.

20:12:02 jurov: the people there want to

20:12:10 mircea_popescu: isn't that like 1/2 of all sub bases in russia ?

20:12:17 asciilifeform: wait there are still people there! lol

20:12:22 mircea_popescu: lol.

20:12:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with "real" conquest is that it sounds a lot like "let me just put the tip in". what do you mean "real".

20:13:02 asciilifeform: well put it this way - which things you get from conquest, that you can't buy.

20:13:20 asciilifeform: for two decades, the ru and ua mafias had an understanding.

20:13:23 mircea_popescu: lotta buttsex with a lot of very scared womenz ?

20:13:33 jurov: utter mess

20:13:45 asciilifeform: when does conquest seem like an appealing answer, to what problems.

20:13:46 mircea_popescu: yes well, no mafia understanding stands forever.

20:13:49 decimation: certainly no one is selling allodial rights to anything these days

20:13:58 mircea_popescu: this happens to be a great thing, it's why mafias are better administrators than constitutions.

20:14:33 mircea_popescu: "At what point will the Russian government decide that Washington?s mendacity, and that of its European puppets and corrupt Western media, render hopeless Russia?s efforts to resolve the situation with diplomacy and unprovocative behavior? "

20:14:36 mircea_popescu: ahahaha herpy-derp.

20:14:43 mircea_popescu: dude, seriously. the propaganda war is a propaganda war.

20:14:56 mircea_popescu: this is like asking "how long will a chess player tolerate the other's crafty artfulness"

20:14:58 mircea_popescu: duh. forever ?

20:15:02 asciilifeform: lol

20:15:27 mircea_popescu: it is the curse of the contemporary postmodern world that most jobs are done by amateurs.

20:15:32 asciilifeform: i'm not even convinced that the ceremony where ua voted for 'independence' happened as advertised.

20:15:44 mircea_popescu: these fuckwits couldn't qualify for a driver job for the classic propaganda spinners of a century ago

20:16:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform join the crowd that has similar doubts about you know... bush's election.

20:16:02 mircea_popescu: so what of it ?

20:16:04 decimation: it is interesting how russian propaganda took a noticeable right-wing turn sometime around 5 years ago

20:16:08 asciilifeform: ah nothing in particular

20:16:17 mircea_popescu: who's about to invade the us on account of you know, it botching the bush election ?

20:16:31 mircea_popescu: and conversely, once i'm about to invade the us, you can bet your sweet ass it will be to rectify ancient evils

20:16:32 asciilifeform: just that derpers going about 'vox populi, vox dei' are tiresome.

20:16:37 mircea_popescu: such as that, or whatever you may feel like.

20:16:38 decimation: someone in the russian intel service decided that the 'useful idiots' on the left weren't so useful anymore

20:16:55 mircea_popescu: decimation no, it's the direct effect of capitalism.

20:17:04 mircea_popescu: people once allowed free markets turn their ideas against the us idiocy.

20:17:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00060233 = 2.5298 BTC [-]

20:17:20 decimation: because they always choose the alternative right?

20:17:27 mircea_popescu: which is why free markets are so important, and why "regulated" us-style so pernicious.

20:17:41 mircea_popescu: not just that, tho prolly a large part.

20:18:25 mircea_popescu: but also you know, many things that constitute th "reasonable" for they locked up into a tower / locked up into a 12yo body / locked away in that early phase of sleep melt away as ridiculous once the full mind is awake

20:18:47 decimation: this is true

20:19:16 mircea_popescu: i mean i clearly recall ths experience where i was falling asleep, and my through process in the remainder part of the brain was "oh my god what if i don't know how to open the door anymore"

20:19:18 mircea_popescu: literally, that.

20:19:24 mircea_popescu: had a good lol when i woke up.

20:19:37 *: asciilifeform experiences this regularly.

20:19:41 mircea_popescu: now- this is exactly the thought process of your run of the mill us citizen, or otherwise socialist derp.

20:19:49 mircea_popescu: "must has the state for i can't open the fucking door"

20:19:54 *: asciilifeform chalks it up to REM paralysis

20:20:06 mircea_popescu: but once some experience with doors is gained... well... lol. ok nm, moving on to saner approaches.

20:20:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's prolly quite related.

20:21:01 mircea_popescu: this is the life of the "theoretician", ie, the guy living in an artificial environment surviving on "grants", and of the child (the prototype of all contemporary scientists - he writes grant applications for to study the new xbox)

20:21:53 decimation: mircea_popescu: there's a good story about that in the podcast link I put up yesterday: "But even without Russ's lectures, people began to recognize the potential for the Tragedy of the Commons. And quite quickly formed Cattlemans' Associations--the kind of thing that Elinor Ostrom would, you know, love to talk about; and I've talked about it with her. Russ: These are voluntary restrictions on the use of resources, not government,

20:21:54 decimation: right? Guest: Government wasn't even a--close to Montana at the time these were formed, these were people saying, 'Gee, our cattle are mixing with one another and are breeding and maybe we don't want that. And if you put all your cattle where I put mine, there will be a tragedy of the commons.' "

20:22:46 decimation: ranchers in ungoverned lands just got together and figured out how to solve the problem of overgrazing/herd mixing, without any state involved

20:23:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.0006059 = 7.4526 BTC [+]

20:23:37 mircea_popescu: the key ingredient ?

20:23:52 mircea_popescu: armed ranchers. armed ranchers who weren'tfrom the ozarks, but had heard of the ozarks.

20:24:05 jurov: actually, does anyone knows how hunters and gatherers stumbled upon this horrid idea of having a state?

20:24:18 asciilifeform: jurov: j.c.scott. 'the art of not being governed.'

20:24:25 mircea_popescu: jurov yes. it goes like this : if me and my friends meet you and your friends, we'll want to fight.

20:24:26 decimation: yeah they had a pretty close approximation to 'allodial rule'

20:24:31 asciilifeform: ^ sweeping masterwork on the subject

20:24:31 jurov: if the former arrangement is superior, why does the history repeat?

20:24:36 mircea_popescu: if i have more friends than you, you're fucked, even if you may be better than me.

20:24:38 mircea_popescu: and so there it goes.

20:25:21 asciilifeform: see also:

20:25:22 asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb

20:25:23 assbot: 4 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb

20:27:48 jurov: so... you're all dreaming of stuff that works only in sparsely populated land?

20:28:49 mircea_popescu: jurov no, it works fine just as long as one has the upper hand.

20:29:05 mircea_popescu: and until such a time, one breaks the hands of the opposition and beats it over the head with them until rendered.

20:29:48 jurov: again, that works best on sparsely populated land

20:30:22 mircea_popescu: if "best" is defined specifically so as to favour that, sure.

20:30:33 mircea_popescu: if not, inamushc as it's the only thing that works, it works best anytime anywhere.

20:31:13 decimation: jurov: certainly a few hundred years ago the major population centers of europe were ruled in a 'non-populist' way

20:31:39 decimation: I blame the french.

20:32:09 jurov: decimation dunno, in latin hungary there was always a struggle between a king and nobility

20:32:21 jurov: king had to be quite a populist

20:32:52 mircea_popescu: but nobility did not.

20:33:29 mircea_popescu: there's never going to be a solution for "all people", mind. what's at stake is for the solution to exist for the *right* people.

20:33:51 decimation: jurov: and I suspect that the solution was not to give every breathing biped a nanoslice of power

20:34:04 mircea_popescu: and gauleiters, or for that matter bureaucrats of any persuasion, can never be the right people.

20:34:54 jurov: decimation but they do have nanoslice of power regardless

20:35:02 jurov: if they decide

20:35:07 jurov: to use it

20:35:30 decimation: jurov: that's true, they can always riot/subvert, etc, which ultimately puts a lid on the king's/noble's power

20:35:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38451 @ 0.00060679 = 23.3317 BTC [+] {3}

20:36:03 decimation: but this usually doesn't end well for anyone ie Napoleon

20:36:22 xmj: hmmm

20:36:24 decimation: or Caesar (Julius) for that matter

20:36:27 xmj: if you guys want exposure to some fun,

20:36:33 mircea_popescu: these are both bad examples.

20:36:35 xmj: look into "Aristocratic Egalitarianism"

20:36:39 mircea_popescu: you're thinking sylla

20:36:40 xmj: and Propertarianism.

20:36:43 xmj: you might like it.

20:38:00 decimation: yeah sylla pretty much put an end to the 'old republic

20:38:13 mircea_popescu: decimation but importantly, on the sort of populist grounds contemplated here,

20:38:16 mircea_popescu: or else the grachi

20:38:34 mircea_popescu: caesar is not much for an example. similarly napoleon, minus his pr, was not jacobin at all.

20:39:31 decimation: no, but my point is that destroying the structure of power typically empowers some megalomaniac to step in and fix things

20:40:30 decimation: of course one could also argue that the reason the french/roman aristocracy fell is because they sucked and had it coming

20:41:00 asciilifeform: the chinese, with their 'mandate of heaven' - get it.

20:44:12 decimation: asciilifeform: but that's effectively a capitulation to the idea that the permanent state is a necessity when humans live 'at scale'

20:44:42 asciilifeform: 'mandate of heaven' ?

20:44:55 decimation: someone needs to be mandated right?

20:44:58 asciilifeform: usually discussed in terms of losing it.

20:45:16 asciilifeform: that is, if king is overthrown, clearly he was unfit.

20:45:42 Apocalyptic: how so ?

20:45:44 decimation: right but then the next king takes over (usually with a different style), not an outbreak of anarchy-capitalism or whatever

20:46:22 asciilifeform: can be extended to 'if you end up sucking kingly cock, clearly you were unfit to maintain your anarchowhatever pastoral reservation.'

20:46:59 decimation: heh, as the jews say, if you take the king's shekels you take the king's shackles

20:47:01 asciilifeform: not a political statement, really a physical 'captain obvious.' -- 'if you went splat, clearly your parachute was inadequate.'

20:49:40 jurov: xmj from propertarianism.com "Flourishing requires that we suppress free riding in all its forms." << who decides about free riding and who's gonna supress it?

20:50:13 xmj: they have that elaborated there too

20:50:44 asciilifeform: jurov: gotta love the american 'anarcho-something-alists' who prattle on about 'rights' and a grandiose 'we' who 'shall do' things.

20:51:50 asciilifeform: jurov: i like to tell them, 'come back when you've invented a pocket neutron bomb that can be made from sticks and grass. until then, enjoy the state (tm) .'

20:52:58 decimation: asciilifeform: agreed. to me, rule under a wise king/baron/whatever is much more likely to approach their 'libertarian' ideals than statelessness

20:52:59 jurov: it seems to me as some kkind of ultracalvinism... without religious adherence to these principles whole thing falls apart

20:54:20 asciilifeform: jurov: back when the 'rights' folks believed in god, they at least had a sound psychiatric reason for pretending to have the pocket neutron bomb without actually having it

20:54:39 asciilifeform: 'respect my rights (tm) or god will zap'

20:54:51 asciilifeform: but today, 'respect my rights because i have rights'

20:56:50 chetty: religion does have purpose

20:56:55 asciilifeform: sometimes it's a 'respect my rights!11! or usg will set your house on fire.'

20:57:12 xmj: jurov: well it shouldn't

20:57:22 decimation: asciilifeform: as a Christian I find these 'godless anarcho-whatevers' to be amusing because they want to make usg into their god

20:57:26 xmj: jurov: ideally we'll come up with a set of self-perpetuating institutions.

20:57:32 asciilifeform: this generally works if opponent lives in a house usg has a habit, or otherwise might like, to set on fire - and could use pretext.

20:58:38 asciilifeform: (why usg needs pretext? has own internal rituals.)

20:58:38 chetty: people seem to need religion, they drop one, they invent another, by a different name ..greenies for instance

20:58:40 asciilifeform: !s morloch

20:58:41 assbot: 3 results for 'morloch' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=morloch

21:01:56 decimation: think what you will about Jaweh, but don't say he didn't warn people what was going to happen: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+8%3A10-20&version=KJV

21:01:57 assbot: 1 Samuel 8:10-20 KJV - And Samuel told all the words of the - Bible Gateway

21:02:28 asciilifeform: it is particularly entertaining, at least in limited dose, to read people whine about usg - the same people in whose heads it lives, of whom it is made in fact.

21:03:01 xmj: ^

21:03:12 decimation: asciilifeform: which is pretty much every adult who lives within 30 miles of you :)

21:03:22 xmj: decimation: 300 miles, too

21:03:29 chetty: kinda waste of effort to hate an idea

21:03:30 xmj: even 500miles, if you'd walk that far

21:03:32 asciilifeform: the presumption of a totalitarian 'we' - that will 'fix things' once 'take control' - jumps straight out of the page.

21:04:19 asciilifeform: xmj: complicated. imagine you happened to live near a fission reactor.

21:04:19 decimation: I suspect it's particularly obvious to anyone who lived in the ussr

21:04:25 chetty: the 'we' seems to be a bunch of very annoying bureaucrats

21:04:38 asciilifeform: xmj: suppose you are, e.g, an amish, and haven't much use for electric mains personally

21:04:58 asciilifeform: xmj: what kind of fate do you wish for the reactor

21:05:15 asciilifeform: first thing you might like is to move - far away

21:05:28 asciilifeform: but what if for some reason you haven't been able to do this.

21:05:44 chetty: better move fast, the fences are going up

21:06:14 asciilifeform: chetty: the best fences - invisible. and have been 'up' for very long time.

21:06:52 chetty: yeah but lately they been adding some not so invisible barbed wire

21:06:53 decimation: asciilifeform: perhaps if you can't move away from the reactor, your next 'defense' is to understand how it works so that you can predict 'danger'

21:07:23 asciilifeform: what good it does you to 'predict danger' if you can't pick up & go?

21:07:31 asciilifeform: (if you could - why would you wait until it pops)

21:08:09 chetty: asciilifeform, easy answer, the couch tv and potato chips are there

21:08:34 asciilifeform: -- couch tv and potato chips are there << or the chalkboard and cyclotron.

21:09:00 decimation: asciilifeform: in other words, invent an alternative reactor that doesn't suck?

21:09:04 chetty: well at least thats a respectable excuse

21:09:52 asciilifeform: this is why the death of ussr is a global calamity - even folks like jurov and mircea_popescu, who saw the underside of the colonial boot, might see the argument as to how

21:10:15 asciilifeform: no pepsi-chalkboard, no pepsi-cyclotron to the moribund 'coke.'

21:10:52 decimation: asciilifeform: indeed, and this is why you are making 'cardano' within a 30 minute drive of fort meade :)

21:10:57 chetty: yeah at least 2 lions can argue over the carcass and leave the mice alone. One lion gets greedy

21:11:17 jurov: ussr was definite exercise in proving eugenics futile... dunno how it could have not fallen

21:11:53 xmj: huh?

21:11:54 asciilifeform: decimation: world's laziest bureaucrats. perhaps they're out of duffel bags and garotte wire.

21:12:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00062544 = 3.6901 BTC [+]

21:12:46 asciilifeform: decimation: that - or they're long under the control of soviet saboteurs like 'stirrup finder'

21:13:01 xmj: asciilifeform: you're talking about the old dichotomy. exit or voice.

21:13:01 decimation: asciilifeform: I doubt that there is anyone in usg that is empowered to use garotte wire within the us

21:13:27 xmj: asciilifeform: ribbonfarm.com had a good article on that one

21:13:27 xmj: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2014/09/03/how-to-fall-off-the-wagon/

21:13:28 assbot: How to Fall Off the Wagon

21:13:28 xmj: about who's likely to use which way of changing things.

21:14:01 asciilifeform: !s stirrup finder

21:14:01 assbot: 1 results for 'stirrup finder' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=stirrup+finder

21:14:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11583 @ 0.00062612 = 7.2523 BTC [+]

21:14:32 decimation: whatever one says about nsa, it's clear that the 'we protect computers & networks' section hasn't been doing much for the past 30 years

21:14:32 decimation: even by usg standards

21:14:32 asciilifeform: arsebot dead ?

21:17:09 chetty: decimation, sure they do stuff, just like the irs, they surf for porn

21:17:40 asciilifeform: doubt that there is anyone in usg that is empowered to use garotte << apparently they prefer limpet mines on auto and plane fuel tanks. perhaps they're also short on these ?

21:35:13 *: asciilifeform was fond of nixon for so long as knew the story about him - because there must have been something fundamentally good about the man if his fellow leeches threw him under the bus.

21:38:25 decimation: asciilifeform: that was the point of the blog: http://28sherman.blogspot.com/2014/08/unified-theory-on-watergate.html << "Despite Nixon's capture of the presidency, he learned where real power lay. In Haldeman's "Ends of Power", he writes ...by 1971 Nixon had realized he was virtually powerless to deal with the bureaucracy in every department of thegovernment... Civil servants, almost all liberal Democrats, would thumb their noses at

21:38:25 assbot: 28 Sherman: Unified Theory on Watergate

21:38:26 decimation: him. Washington insiders all acknowledge that the man who is still King in Washington has been dead for 32 years. Franklin D. Roosevelt's legacy lives on."

22:49:30 ben_vulpes: http://www.dailydot.com/news/volcano-mt-tavurvur-eruption-footage/

22:49:30 assbot: Stunned tourists capture incredible volcanic eruption

22:53:18 mircea_popescu: xmj: they have that elaborated there too <<, they being a lone guy who flatters himself that he's going to "continue" things he scarcely understands, from a purely theoretical perspective. because this works now, and the ample supply of tims and culwicks is somehow not self-defeating.

22:53:20 kakobrekla: TheNewDeal you can do that yourself.

22:53:23 mircea_popescu: or for that matter self-deafening

22:54:53 xmj: thank god there's a lone guy judging another lone guy.

22:55:12 mircea_popescu: nice, but relativism doth not work merely because it would be convenient for it to.

22:55:18 Duffer1: so here's a first for me, i got advertising dust today https://blockchain.info/address/1LaxoTrQy51LnB289VmoSAgN6J6UrJbfL9

22:55:18 assbot: Bitcoin Address 1LaxoTrQy51LnB289VmoSAgN6J6UrJbfL9

22:55:27 mircea_popescu: wd.

22:56:24 kakobrekla: i didnt get shit :(

22:56:35 mircea_popescu: your advertising is weak!

22:57:03 mircea_popescu: decimation samuel was in all likeliness a pre biblical wiseguy. so technically jahweh just copy-pasted.

22:57:21 Duffer1: looks like everyone they sent to is in WoT, but i don't see some of the bigger names from this chan

22:58:47 mircea_popescu: chetty: well at least thats a respectable excuse << every excuse is respectable to the one guy whose respect matters you know.

23:00:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: this is why the death of ussr is a global calamity - even folks like jurov and mircea_popescu, who saw the underside of the colonial boot, might see the argument as to how << i certainly do not see such.

23:01:07 mircea_popescu: it was a very enjoyable experience to piss in the chalice in byzantium, looking forward to pissing i nthe chalice in rome.

23:01:35 jurov: stan apparently thinks ussr kept tejh us in check. now they're gone, usg destroys everything

23:02:03 mircea_popescu: jurov: ussr was definite exercise in proving eugenics futile... dunno how it could have not fallen << tell more ?

23:03:07 mircea_popescu: jurov well they kept the us mentally in check, so to speak. they're muppets in the fields of kansas, the best they can do is "we're better than x", very limited meanness. once no more x, there isn't a good reason not to patriot act all over the bed. i suppose that's the strongest reading of that.

23:03:08 jurov: dunno, i just think the ussr eugenics program was overdone

23:03:18 mircea_popescu: i didn't think they had one. how did it go ?

23:04:34 mircea_popescu: xmj: asciilifeform: you're talking about the old dichotomy. exit or voice. << how the fuck are the 70s old!

23:05:01 jurov: what else to call their management of the population?

23:06:12 mircea_popescu: i dunno, i don't think it's a settled matter

23:06:15 xmj: ?

23:06:22 xmj: exit or voice has been around forever.

23:06:24 mircea_popescu: which is why i'm kinda curious of what you mean, cuz it doesn't seem much represented.

23:06:36 mircea_popescu: xmj it's hirschman's idea, and it has been around since forever in the sense of the 70s.

23:06:53 xmj: that doesn't matter

23:07:07 mircea_popescu: right.

23:07:12 xmj: he may have been the one to put a name on it, the idea behind it has existed for millennia

23:07:15 xmj: ^ what i mean

23:07:37 mircea_popescu: a dubious assertion, but lettuce let it lay.

23:07:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00079684 = 4.781 BTC [+]

23:09:57 mircea_popescu: whoa back to 8

23:10:01 mircea_popescu: dude the volatility in this thing

23:13:22 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker

23:13:24 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 479.01, Best ask: 479.09, Bid-ask spread: 0.08000, Last trade: 479.1, 24 hour volume: 2198.42967875, 24 hour low: 477.25, 24 hour high: 483.0, 24 hour vwap: 480.399542153

23:16:51 mircea_popescu: "The 40th anniversary of President Richard Nixon's resignation just passed. The myths around the Watergate scandal are many and deep. Like all bits of American history, there is the official version and the truth. We will never know the truth, but the official version looks shakier with each year. The reason for pushing him out looks quaint as our elected and unelected elite commit far more heinous acts and far greater

23:16:52 mircea_popescu: abuses of power. Members of his team bugged an office? Heh, how simple. Bug the world like Bush-Obama. I have always been intrigued by Nixon's rise, fall and return like a rock star set to politics, and this is my current take on a unified theory of Watergate."

23:17:07 mircea_popescu: this is such nonsense. let's write it about ted bundy now.

23:20:28 mircea_popescu: "The 40th anniversary of Ted Bundy's conviction just passed. The myths (not really, but we can call things anything, right?) around the crimes and their prosecution are many and deep (no reference required here). Like all bits of American (spurious, this is true of all history, but hey, gotta pander to the reader's "sentiment") history, there is the official version and the truth. We will never know the truth (delibera

23:20:29 mircea_popescu: tely so), but the official version looks shakier with each year (by simple working of the poor quality of this kind of idiot's memory). The reason for pushing him out looks quaint as that guy in Belgium kept a girl in a basement or whatever, and that's how things work now, by comparison and recourse to derpmemory. Because we're living in fucking post-literate society among barbarians. Here is my very important fanon on

23:20:30 mircea_popescu: the topic please read it and care because I have nothing else."

23:29:47 BingoBoingo: %t

23:29:48 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 24h-Vol: 9k High: 221 Low: 221 VWAP: 221

23:30:04 BingoBoingo: %v

23:30:05 atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 1.56M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195

23:33:33 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMeanie4

23:34:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28750 @ 0.00079702 = 22.9143 BTC [+] {2}

23:40:45 BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe

23:40:45 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00059659 / 0.00062126 / 0.00079764 (859525 shares, 533.99 BTC), 7D: 0.00059659 / 0.00075371 / 0.00086027 (3582668 shares, 2,700.31 BTC), 30D: 0.00059659 / 0.00073704 / 0.00088145 (16887234 shares, 12,446.73 BTC)

23:42:02 BingoBoingo: !up vos_vos

23:42:07 BingoBoingo: Hello vos_vos

23:42:19 vos_vos: hi

23:45:15 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/guba1a/status/508685213342662656/photo/1

23:45:17 assbot: Gibraltar XI's occupations today against Poland... http://t.co/xevwyPvHvZ

23:45:44 []bot: Bet placed: 1.75 BTC for No on "Euro sinks against USD" http://bitbet.us/bet/1041/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.85 BTC. Current weight: 99,843.

23:47:55 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^ :D

23:50:11 kakobrekla: 3 months is kinda short aint it

23:50:36 mircea_popescu: the skirt is kinda short an' the stockings kinda red, but it'll have to do

23:54:06 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

23:54:08 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 476.53, Best ask: 477.37, Bid-ask spread: 0.84000, Last trade: 477.4, 24 hour volume: 2853.01037943, 24 hour low: 474.95, 24 hour high: 483.0, 24 hour vwap: 479.288412986

23:54:28 ThickAsThieves: now mpoe goes up, my theory is crap

23:54:46 ThickAsThieves: bot owner is trolling me

23:55:50 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Maybe USG got an MPEx account just to fuck with you?

23:56:11 mircea_popescu: or maybe a battle's been raging for a few weeks

23:57:43 BingoBoingo: Eh, this MPOE volatility has been happening for what? since it broke 100000 satoshis?

23:57:50 BingoBoingo: It's just faster now

23:57:58 ThickAsThieves: since it broke 7 i think

23:58:09 mircea_popescu: something like that

23:59:31 BingoBoingo: For all we know the USG might take a break from shorting BTC and send the Euro under the dollar tomorrow by telling Germany it lost their gold.