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Transcript for 08-02-2016, 619 lines:

00:00:11 maqp: Okay, so basically I tell my peer that this message should at some point reach my contact

00:00:14 maqp: and evetually it will reach them

00:00:35 mircea_popescu: consider what happened in gossipd when i said the line above : "<mircea_popescu> you don't know who he has in his contacts.". buncha nodes that i know went "we heard mp say so" to their downlist

00:00:45 mircea_popescu: responses may or may not reach me.

00:00:56 mircea_popescu: a line going "hey maqp" may or may not reach you.

00:02:25 mircea_popescu: as far as anyone who wasn't there is concerned, this may as well be a fabrication altogether. and so on.

00:02:53 maqp: Why not instead have a public repository of all public keys similar to Tor

00:03:22 mircea_popescu: because why would i gift upon a would-be atacker that;s really a lame ass kid unable to on hios own merit secure the cost of a proper burial

00:03:23 maqp: then when you want to send a message to contact, you encrypt the message with the public key and ask users to pass along the ciphertext

00:03:26 mircea_popescu: a whole and complete list of keys ?

00:04:19 maqp: Why not? To have even a tiny bit of integrity you need trustworthy peer network

00:04:30 mircea_popescu: i don't want any integrity outside of what my wot provides.

00:04:40 mircea_popescu: it's probably a lie anyway.

00:05:05 maqp: The point is, unless you encrypt the message, anyone might have created the plaintext

00:05:09 mircea_popescu: exactly.

00:05:16 maqp: unless you sign*

00:05:18 mircea_popescu: this is a good thing.

00:05:19 maqp: you can encrypt

00:05:36 maqp: and you can be assured that only the recipient will read what you sent

00:05:52 maqp: so you get secrecy without affecting the anonymity

00:05:57 mircea_popescu: but i do not wish to be assured this ; moreover this "assurance" you provide is false, in substantially the same manner your idea of "infosec" misses security.

00:06:10 mircea_popescu: think about it. can i be assured ? maybe the person saves it in plaintext and loses the laptop

00:06:12 mircea_popescu: what "assured" ?

00:06:53 mircea_popescu: the only assurance to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did.

00:08:53 maqp: Yeah, I'm afraid there's really no situation this could be used in

00:09:10 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> heh anyways i just cracked xotika, picked a random feed and whaddaya know the last frame of the bloomberg video that autoplayed itself is superimposed on this poor girl's face << Known bug on Chromium using OS X and Nvidia

00:09:23 mircea_popescu: maqp i'll use it once it's finally done. but anyway.

00:09:32 maqp: Security is, and has always been about adding layers, enough layers to make attack unbeneficial to attacker

00:09:39 maqp: usually, expensive enough

00:10:04 mircea_popescu: as far as i see that's pseudosecurity. security is and always has been about being secure.

00:10:27 mircea_popescu: adding layers is how you end up making agincourt famous.

00:11:45 maqp: There is no way your system can defeat targeted SIGINT monitoring attack, where government drives within a few hundred meters and collects signals emitted by your keyboard cable.

00:12:00 mircea_popescu: other than by shooting on sight anyone caught doing that.

00:12:05 maqp: Should we abandon all security because security isn't absoulte?

00:12:34 maqp: The range with illuminated retro reflectors is up to 10 miles. You going to shoot anybody within that range?

00:12:36 mircea_popescu: well, there's no "we". but i have no interest in adding layers of sheet metal to my limo when everyone shot got shot getting in or getting out of the limo.

00:13:06 mircea_popescu: sure. i've been hoping to do some snuff videos of "operatives" caught with gear for years now.

00:14:19 maqp: Okay. I really hope you end up creating somethign cool. Just be sure to get someone elses opinion too

00:14:43 mircea_popescu: aha.

00:16:52 BingoBoingo: Ah, there's always someone trying to find an easier, softer, way.

00:20:12 maqp: It's just that this type of nihilistic reasoning and security t-bones with the standard infosec discourse so badly I can't offer advice.

00:22:04 maqp: If you're passionate about the project, I hope you dive into it, write a paper on this and prove us wrong.

00:22:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00056438 = 13.8273 BTC [+] {2}

00:22:40 phf: who's us?

00:23:22 maqp: me and whoever might agree with me

00:23:26 mircea_popescu: yes, that's kinda the point of b-a. it t-bones with standard * discourse so badly, as you put it.

00:28:35 phf: maqp: there's a number of existing cryptographic primitives that, depending on the fashions, are combined with each other in various obvious ways. we understand your approach, because it's obvious, and there similar existing attempts. you find our approach ~confusing~, maybe there's a hidden point that you're missing. a thread model that you're not quiet grokking.

00:28:47 phf: *threat

00:31:33 mircea_popescu: in fairness, person walks into the republican capitol. there's ALL THIS SHIT. it'd be impossible not to feel even the little bit queasy.

00:31:50 mircea_popescu: you fuckers've not been idle for the past years.

00:35:10 maqp: phf: Well, when you look at history of TLS, you'll notice that modes of operation are not obvious. My approach for TFC is first of it's kind (at least in FOSS world). My approach on a-b is to see whether CIA-triad is fulfilled. If my peer can be tricked into sending messages to infiltrator / network attack that changes a single public key etc. all security is lost

00:36:38 mircea_popescu: what's a cia-triad ?

00:37:00 maqp: confidentiality, integrity, availability

00:38:17 mircea_popescu: incidentally - your tinfoil suite is not at issue here. and actually to circle back to an earlier point :

00:38:28 mircea_popescu: you ever thought about selling i dunno, optic diode kits or something ?

00:38:51 maqp: It's a complicated problem. Let me quote an expert on this

00:40:16 maqp: http://pastebin.com/H5LMVB6f

00:40:17 assbot: One of the reasons I decided not to use optocouplers is a story I got from a fr - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ojjxvS )

00:41:15 maqp: Basically, LEDs and phototransistors might be secure against interdiction attacks, but the problem is finding a properly functioning pair

00:41:47 mircea_popescu: this is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard.

00:41:50 maqp: I think it's more safe if people download manuals from the network, and then buy COTS hardware and build data diodes / HWRNG themselves

00:41:58 mircea_popescu: do you seriously imagine this is how this works ?!

00:42:10 maqp: What works?

00:42:11 mircea_popescu: one day someone calls up foxconn and is like hey guise... can i have fridge in cpu ?

00:43:23 mircea_popescu: at best this is a little bit of pious fraud.

00:43:46 maqp: Too bad we can't have a mature discussion about this

00:44:34 mircea_popescu: we can't possibly have a mature discussion about the silly in that dpaste.

00:44:44 mircea_popescu: understand : bitcoin consists of billions of dollars worth of custom run chips. "we"'d know.

00:45:28 mircea_popescu: anyway : it'd be better, of course, if users made their own. but users don't make their own, for many reasons, chief among which that they're lazy. do you specifically not want to market a product ?

00:47:13 maqp: There is absolutely no way to guarantee delivery against interdiction. So unless the device uses unbackdoorable components, then no.

00:47:51 mircea_popescu: huh ?

00:48:40 maqp: hardware you get from mail can be backdoored. https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/nsa-tao-cisco-interdiction.jpg

00:48:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ojknZq )

00:49:00 maqp: Oh, that picture is classified Top Secret

00:49:25 maqp: so if you're emplyed by US gov it's illegal to view it

00:49:48 maqp: unless you have the clearance

00:50:27 mircea_popescu: you understand the difference between a gps beacon and some sort of tiny subvertor that'd fit inside an optodiode somehow ?

00:51:02 maqp: you understand the size of required logic and NSA running best fab in the world? ;)

00:51:09 mircea_popescu: uh.

00:51:46 mircea_popescu: define "best".

00:52:10 maqp: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/01/10/nsa_runs_best_fab/

00:52:10 assbot: NSA runs best fab in world • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ojkKmZ )

00:52:37 mircea_popescu: so you're suspicious that your mail may be subverted, but you don't suspect pravda might be ?

00:52:58 mircea_popescu: tell you what, the best korea register has a story about how that fatass what's his name runs the best fab in the world.

00:55:38 mircea_popescu: Kim Jong-un

00:55:45 maqp: The site uses nsa.gov as a source. If you can disprove their claims, it should make quite a scandal

00:56:43 maqp: But like I said, all the best. It's 3am I'm off. Night everyone!

00:57:02 mircea_popescu: i'll just wait for reality to disprove their claims instead. heck, they're still making the best invisibly-visible aircraft-submarine scooba diving platform, or whatever that was.

02:15:25 phf: ;;later tell maqp if i were you i'd split tfc.pdf into separate papers. HWRNG, data diode communication, tfc otp, tfc cev and "rationale", the last one to include all the superfluous NSA shoutouts

02:15:25 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:21:51 phf: ;;later tell maqp on a cursory inspection i couldn't figure out how the protocol decides between otp and cev, how those are identified on the wire, etc. is that up to the user?

02:21:51 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26850 @ 0.00056963 = 15.2946 BTC [+] {3}

02:22:25 phf: also having read the paper, i stand by my words

02:23:29 phf: for extra lulz paper includes proof of otp perfect secrecy taken from a coursera cryptography course

02:27:02 phf: it is also filled with the kind of things that will give asciilifeform a severe twitch: guy takes hardware rng, runs it on raspberry pi gpio, whiteness the result, and then xors in /dev/urandom. you know, for the kids!

02:30:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6230 @ 0.00056331 = 3.5094 BTC [-] {2}

02:37:04 BingoBoingo: Ah, the best fab piece is from 2001. Plenty of time since then.

02:50:29 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

02:50:36 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 377.25, vol: 2844.61927419 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 380.107, vol: 4527.00977 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 374.65, vol: 11600.84299638 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 365.0, vol: 0.07478758 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 387.016929, vol: 15976.75890000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 374.5001, vol: 229.92817798 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 380.2821504, vol: 16.85402986 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

02:51:44 BingoBoingo: ;;more

02:51:44 gribble: average: 381.177517556

02:51:54 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb

02:52:02 gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2545.0, vol: 15996.97790000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2545.0

02:54:03 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

02:54:06 gribble: Current Blocks: 397314 | Current Difficulty: 1.4411644784734866E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 399167 | Next Difficulty In: 1853 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

03:00:17 mircea_popescu: phf internet produces necessarily a mixed bag. still, the guy correctly identified a workable airgap scheme on his own, should count for something.

03:00:57 danielpbarron: he kinda reminds me of that dude who showed up in #eulora talking about how things are done in gaming or whatever

03:01:13 mircea_popescu: nah, that dude was annoying.

03:02:29 BingoBoingo: It's things like these and the /. comments that reveal's everyone's tolerance for anthropology

03:03:27 BingoBoingo: A test https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/thumb/3/3b/Glomped_weeaboo_horrors.png/800px-Glomped_weeaboo_horrors.png

03:03:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20Q9sUZ )

03:04:51 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude i just laughed hysterically at the korean derp on horse pic.

03:04:55 mircea_popescu: you did this deliberately didn't you ?

03:05:44 BingoBoingo: What. Preet got a picture. I figured I needed to get a picture for Kim when he tested the new bomb.

03:06:13 *: BingoBoingo pretty sure it's a shoop. Kim's kinda a ham.

03:06:20 mircea_popescu: just cuz of the horseback meme.

03:07:27 BingoBoingo: Gotta keep the memes alive

03:09:29 BingoBoingo: Anyways the picuture was found on the internet wilds, likely shooped by Kim himself

03:10:45 BingoBoingo: In other news, apparently contemporary LISP machine is not a thing, but PASCAL machine is http://oberonstation.x10.mx/

03:10:48 assbot: OberonStation - The Oberon computing platform ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJizmQ )

03:22:02 BingoBoingo: https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/d/de/Whatchild.jpg

03:22:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJjioe )

03:25:22 danielpbarron: epic photobomb

03:28:06 BingoBoingo: https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/e/e1/Hambeast_prime_weeaboo_horror.jpg

03:28:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJjIej )

03:37:11 punkman: http://dev.webonomic.nl/how-to-disable-css-transforms-transistions-and-animations

03:54:51 BingoBoingo: !up Alopex

03:54:55 punkman: "-hey guys remember <blink>? -Yeah... -I just reimplemented it in our browser, but even cooler. - So where do I turn this off now? -Why would you ever want to turn this off?"

04:26:46 punkman: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.crypt/oFdR-hzc83w rsa for scheme, and some lulz after that

04:26:48 assbot: Google Groupes ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q4pSHW )

04:34:24 BingoBoingo: I thought R5RS was the good scheme?

04:58:31 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399568 << anybody cached this ?

04:58:31 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 00:40:16; maqp: http://pastebin.com/H5LMVB6f

04:59:50 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399606 << ahahahahahaha

04:59:50 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 02:23:29; phf: for extra lulz paper includes proof of otp perfect secrecy taken from a coursera cryptography course

05:00:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399618 << actually fella reminds me of the medieval folk who tried to build gliders and splat

05:00:53 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 03:00:17; mircea_popescu: phf internet produces necessarily a mixed bag. still, the guy correctly identified a workable airgap scheme on his own, should count for something.

05:01:11 asciilifeform: very depressing.

05:03:35 punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399568 << anybody cached this ? << click the bit.ly link from assbot and you'll find it

05:03:35 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 00:40:16; maqp: http://pastebin.com/H5LMVB6f

05:04:15 asciilifeform: ;;later tell maqp http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399589 << work us through an example of what a subverted diode ought to do. assume a builder with infinite money and hatred of all things good and bright.

05:04:15 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 00:51:02; maqp: you understand the size of required logic and NSA running best fab in the world? ;)

05:04:15 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:04:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some sillyness about how some derp prankcalled an unnamed silicon manufacturer, pretended to be a secret agency so secret not even the name is known, asked for a spec on an unspecified cpu packaging other than "it must be just like irl ones" and received a 100k firm bid on the phone as long as he provides "his ip"

05:04:26 mircea_popescu: it was something else.

05:06:02 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/vhyZk << found it, ty punkman

05:06:03 assbot: One of the reasons I decided not to use optocouplers is a story I got from a fr - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sak7Z7 )

05:07:31 asciilifeform: incidentally, even supposing the great satan knew how to fit an entire battalion of snitches and three whole atomic bombs into an optocoupler, the fun part re: using standard analogue parts is that YOU CAN GET THEM FROM ANCIENT MACHINES

05:07:37 asciilifeform: including soviet etc.

05:08:07 mircea_popescu: i'd actually very much want to see this wunderwaffen where they put bluetooth in the optoitem.

05:08:51 asciilifeform: reasonably it wouldn't be bluetooth but one of the 'shitmonkey' or what was it called, from snowden-II document, simple short-range radio thing

05:09:19 asciilifeform: use one of the legs, or power supply, or whole bus, as antenna.

05:09:34 mircea_popescu: in parts the reddit-powered "infosec" "community" sounds a lot more like some sort of clinically relevant entomophobia in imminent danger of taking the leap into delusional parasitosis.

05:09:59 asciilifeform: dragos ruiu et al

05:10:04 mircea_popescu: aha remember him

05:10:27 asciilifeform: lulzily i was actually in the midst of prototyping a simple bios diddler when that came out

05:11:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6247 @ 0.00057382 = 3.5847 BTC [+] {2}

05:12:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23603 @ 0.0005745 = 13.5599 BTC [+] {2}

05:12:34 asciilifeform: delusional parasitosis is built from two basic components - collective 'tooth-licking' (as naggum called it), where buncha folks happily 'folie a deux' together 2) palpable powerlessness, 'no microscope anywhere can possibly see the bugs', etc

05:13:03 asciilifeform: panic in the face of what is seen as infinitely powerful devil

05:13:38 mircea_popescu: the irony of the situation being that the soviets weren't nearly as impressed by the significantly more powerful soviet state.

05:13:55 asciilifeform: because it was palpably made of 'folks who smell of vodka just like me'

05:13:59 asciilifeform: or somethinglikethat

05:14:10 mircea_popescu: i guess it must be

05:14:11 asciilifeform: there was not the hard caste delineation.

05:14:14 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'ma bbl!

05:14:19 *: asciilifeform also bbl.

05:51:17 punkman: http://www.adacrypt.co.uk/

05:51:19 assbot: Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1SDp3X2 )

05:53:46 punkman: http://popcryspri11.blogspot.com/p/legend-of-adacrypt.html

05:53:47 assbot: Popular Cryptography Magazine Spring 2011: The Legend of Adacrypt ... ( http://bit.ly/1NZbqJy )

07:40:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00057462 = 4.8555 BTC [+] {2}

09:44:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.0005733 = 7.5389 BTC [-] {2}

10:38:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.0005733 = 4.0704 BTC [-]

13:16:40 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399651 << you're welcome :p

13:16:40 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 05:03:35; punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399568 << anybody cached this ? << click the bit.ly link from assbot and you'll find it

13:17:04 danielpbarron: i don't always archive links, but i had a feeling someone would be asking about that noe

14:37:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27654 @ 0.0005733 = 15.854 BTC [-]

15:03:25 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market djia

15:03:26 gribble: Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'okc', 'btcn', 'coinbase', 'cbx', 'btce', 'bfx', 'btcavg', 'btcde', 'krk', 'bitmynt', 'btsp'] or 'all'

15:19:38 nubbins`: CRLF is the standard newline

15:26:17 deedbot-: [Qntra] Falling Aluminum Prices And Unforgiving Electricity Prices Force Noranda Aluminum Bankruptcy - http://qntra.net/2016/02/falling-aluminum-prices-and-unforgiving-electricity-prices-force-noranda-aluminum-bankruptcy/

15:26:30 BingoBoingo: ^ Qntra metals desk returns!

15:33:27 nubbins`: finally

15:33:48 nubbins`: no coincidence that it reappears after yrs trooly

15:35:13 BingoBoingo: It's a wild nubbins`

15:35:15 mircea_popescu: !up liquidassets

15:36:07 nubbins`: i need a 3.5mm TRRS to 3x RCA cable

15:38:06 BingoBoingo: !UP ascii_butugychag

15:38:06 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Node caught back up I think my issue is the crap box I am running it on. Going to start shopping for better node hardware I guess.

15:38:06 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:38:20 ascii_butugychag: wb nubbins` !

15:38:26 ascii_butugychag: how was the submarine ?

15:38:27 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Your node locked up too?

15:38:39 nubbins`: ty! the air was stale, not to my liking. had to resurface

15:38:48 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399682 << glorious timecube

15:38:48 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 05:53:46; punkman: http://popcryspri11.blogspot.com/p/legend-of-adacrypt.html

15:38:54 shinohai: Yup BingoBoingo I keep getting connection boots, had trouble all weekend keeping it online.

15:39:28 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Ah mine just froze about 10-11 hours ago, finally eating blocks again

15:40:22 shinohai: I started another node on Friday on my friends server, it is still catching up. But I think it showed me I need to upgrade some equipments.

15:43:21 ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu do you know of any working implementations of cramer-shoup other than the emacslisp one i linked last week ?

15:43:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:43:29 mircea_popescu: nubbins` so where've you been

15:43:35 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i do not.

15:43:52 ascii_butugychag: mega-unsurprise, they don't appear to exist

15:43:55 shinohai: I guess it isn't much in the face of Bitcoin Classic's 100's of nodes "coming soon" but trying to do my part.

15:44:15 shinohai: *1000's

15:45:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag hey, it's a mature field.

15:45:22 mircea_popescu: sadly all everyone planted were turds, but the field's manure alright

15:45:25 mircea_popescu: oops, i mean mature.

15:45:30 ascii_butugychag: l0l aha

15:46:06 ascii_butugychag: i suppose this then is one of those 'salvation of the drowning..' situations.

15:46:42 mircea_popescu: like oh... everything else to fucking date.

15:47:02 mircea_popescu: one day im going to meet these people in heaven, or else organise a special safari to hell, and give them a piece of my mind.

15:47:57 ascii_butugychag: where did the diode fella who came in from the cold come from ?

15:48:04 thestringpuller: remember though. bitcoin classic is still in beta. and it's chinese new year. and other things.

15:48:20 nubbins`: mircea_popescu same place just w/ less computer usage

15:48:38 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag punkman's wide net of stuff / danielpbarron invitede him

15:48:55 ascii_butugychag: ah

15:49:18 ascii_butugychag: i always found interesting the kind of lice and worms these folks usually walk in with

15:49:27 punkman: the timecube motherlode http://editionsassailly.com/dissidents_english.htm

15:49:28 assbot: Editions d'Assailly ... ( http://bit.ly/20Rd1u5 )

15:49:47 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag self-directed education always looks like this.

15:49:52 nubbins`: made a buncha books. been brewing a lotta beer

15:50:07 thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag you sound like the health food store people. "drink this dewormer before you enter"

15:50:08 mircea_popescu: good for you eh.

15:50:16 ascii_butugychag: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188842

15:50:16 assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 23:53:20; asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'

15:50:53 mircea_popescu: the recent debias-otp-plaintext thing being a splendid if amusing example in this exact line.

15:51:31 ascii_butugychag: i was surprised how nobody reacted to that mega-l0ltr0n

15:51:50 mircea_popescu: (meanwhile i asked for the why and wherefore of the "debiasing" of the plaintext. "no you idiot, it's so you burn less otp. what the fuck's wrong with you!")

15:52:06 ascii_butugychag: ^ aha! dingdingding correct

15:52:30 mod6: shinohai: ok thanks for the update. let us know how it goes.

15:52:43 ascii_butugychag: running out of otp is rather like running out of ammo,

15:52:54 ascii_butugychag: but with the difference that one might, given a miracle, find more ammo

15:53:02 ascii_butugychag: whereas your otp in the field is the one you have.

15:53:08 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag see, bering the commander of a glorious, victorious army unit does not protect one from dying in a drunken bar brawl.

15:53:13 mircea_popescu: local maxima can get you every time.

15:53:45 nubbins`: re: ex-ss agent shaun bridges: hyper-lel

15:53:57 mircea_popescu: nubbins` think about it for a second : that man had no friends.

15:54:01 ascii_butugychag: and in defense of mircea_popescu , the arithmetical boojum involved was a subtle one, sorta like montyhall

15:54:08 mircea_popescu: a fifteen year old in what alf calls "orc" lands has at leastr a coupla of friends.

15:54:16 mircea_popescu: that man, that redditards are supposed to be affraid of, had none.

15:54:21 mircea_popescu: what life is this ? what power, what glory.

15:54:44 nubbins`: mircea_popescu my heart empathetically raced as i imagined the empty pit of despair engulfing him at the moment of re-arrest

15:55:05 nubbins`: the korean term for this is literally translated as "smelling sesame oil"

15:55:09 mircea_popescu: like the idiot thief, sorry he got caught, not sorry he's the sort of dumbass that feeds himself in the least effectual way, yes.

15:55:20 mircea_popescu: a bettrer man would have despaired when realising that he has no soul to rely on.

15:55:36 nubbins`: a better man'd be worm food decades ago

15:55:49 ascii_butugychag: ^

15:55:52 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

15:55:53 nubbins`: what a lel. i wonder what /else/ they nabbed him with.

15:56:07 ascii_butugychag: likely, the keyz

15:56:11 ascii_butugychag: which was the whole point.

15:56:11 nubbins`: ^

15:56:17 ascii_butugychag: (of 'letting him go')

15:56:26 mircea_popescu: so far the usg is like 3-0 for "kidnapped, murdered and extorted keys"

15:56:30 nubbins`: they pointedly stated that the released list of bounty was abridged

15:57:03 mircea_popescu: ofcourse, they're mostly doing their own people, but anyway.

15:57:16 ascii_butugychag: 'the spice must flow', the waterfall gotta get refilled

15:57:24 mircea_popescu: myeah.

15:57:41 *: nubbins` imagines future heavily-fractured internet reminiscent of times of old, "warez & keyz" web rings &c

15:58:04 ascii_butugychag: nubbins`: nobody ever cancelled it

15:58:17 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag incidentally, this is the most shocking part of the maqp kid. he is utterly alone, for this reason entirely hopeless, and his solution is "hey, better aloneliness potion would help!"

15:58:34 mircea_popescu: no you fucking idiot, it won't. "anonimity" is what got you in the pickle in thefirst place, you don't want more of it. you want fucking less.

15:58:49 nubbins`: ascii_butugychag in this fantasy, the s:n ratio is back where it was

15:58:52 mircea_popescu: my article specifically says "it will make kids lose their mind", and kid with lost mind reads it and it helps naught.

16:00:08 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: possibly kid imagines that the company of others leads directly to 'militia', and usg stoolies, and straight into jail

16:00:17 mircea_popescu: if this is so, THIS has to be fixed.

16:00:31 ascii_butugychag: which, for the typical usaschwitz 'dissident' - may well be ~true~

16:00:36 mircea_popescu: irrespective!

16:00:46 mircea_popescu: his present reasoning is "eating hurts, so i'll stop eating".

16:00:53 mircea_popescu: bitch, you stop eating you die. now swallow.

16:01:29 ascii_butugychag: and his answer may well be 'i'll die of starvation instead of eating fallout, fuckyou'

16:01:43 mircea_popescu: fallout won't kill you.

16:01:49 ascii_butugychag: godel famously starved because, in his words, he was convinced that he was being poisoned.

16:01:58 mircea_popescu: on the contrary ; a) make farts visible in the night ; b) maybe you acquire flight.

16:02:09 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag and godel famously wasn't quite together.

16:02:28 ascii_butugychag: no shit

16:02:46 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is where alf's celebrated "engineering is separation" comes in.

16:02:50 mircea_popescu: fix the food, but eat it.

16:02:54 mircea_popescu: trust, but verify.

16:02:56 mircea_popescu: all that jazz.

16:04:56 BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/845983

16:04:57 assbot: Using their weight against them (old shitlording I forgot) | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbnKhz )

16:05:03 BingoBoingo: ^ Related

16:06:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21310 @ 0.00057266 = 12.2034 BTC [-]

16:07:01 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it is almost possible to catalogue the cockroaches typically infesting n00b heads - for instance, having a set of 'too big to contemplate' steps, such as junking 'nacl' et al and writing own libs

16:07:11 ascii_butugychag: 'but mustn't do that, schneier told us never to write own crypto'

16:07:11 ascii_butugychag: etc

16:07:36 mircea_popescu: well, the advice is in general correct.

16:08:00 mircea_popescu: writing own crypto [especially if done by the typically ustardian aloneman, a la shaun bridges etc] is bound to crash in the local maxima problem discussed a minute ago.

16:08:03 ascii_butugychag: in the same way as 'don't cut open a man's abdomen if you want him to live' is ~generally~ correct

16:08:08 mircea_popescu: quite so.

16:08:18 mircea_popescu: and if we know for a fact you're alone, the advice is entirely correct.

16:08:19 ascii_butugychag: and i think mircea_popescu had an article specially about this

16:08:34 ascii_butugychag: the one with the caesar ciphers

16:08:59 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/ ?

16:09:00 assbot: The danger of homebrew crypto on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/20Rfk0r )

16:09:01 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

16:09:15 ascii_butugychag: aha it

16:09:55 ascii_butugychag: and the timecube linked earlier, was an even better illustration

16:10:12 ascii_butugychag: (it was a compendium of writings of a sci.crypt usenet crackpot)

16:10:14 nubbins`: the danger of homebrew beer: too yummy

16:10:26 mircea_popescu: nubbins` more like too much tummy.

16:11:06 *: mircea_popescu votes nubbins` "most likely to exceed".

16:11:21 nubbins`: all things in moderation! i'm down 5kg since the holidays!

16:11:42 nubbins`: thats not to say you can't binge drink, you just do it in moderation

16:11:52 mircea_popescu: im stuck with a bunch of women that all cook well and like to do it. and so i've recently discovered that eating less actually makes me feel better!

16:11:55 mircea_popescu: it was a sad realisation.

16:12:09 nubbins`: yeah no kidding

16:12:22 nubbins`: you can give up booze, smoking, drugs, etc

16:12:26 nubbins`: but you can't stop eating

16:12:26 mircea_popescu: it's not fucking fair. god damned shitlords ruining the world for everyone.

16:12:50 BingoBoingo: lol

16:12:56 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah

16:12:59 mircea_popescu: i'm looking at you BingoBoingo

16:13:10 BingoBoingo: You can't fight biology

16:14:00 mircea_popescu: harem is a fucking unbalanced construction. i should have a small army around it so they could eat my pies and i could look on and be happy in my old age.

16:14:19 nubbins`: take on a youth group or smth

16:14:25 nubbins`: give back to the local community 8)

16:14:35 mircea_popescu: nubbins` my problem is that i really can't stand idiots.

16:14:36 *: nubbins` cackles

16:14:41 BingoBoingo: #b-a goes through its mostly epicurean stage. nubbins` drinks less, mircea_popescu eats less, BingoBoingo realizes he only binge drinks has to stop entirely

16:14:42 mircea_popescu: otherwise - i would.

16:15:18 nubbins`: BingoBoingo get on the reefers dude

16:15:42 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Then I'd fac the Shrem's bong dilemma.

16:16:06 BingoBoingo: Anyways, prolly best to learn to cope with actual sobriety first

16:16:47 nubbins`: write more, they say it helps

16:17:46 BingoBoingo: been working on that.

16:18:23 BingoBoingo: pretty sure December I set a personal record for words. Then January set a personal record for headlines.

16:18:52 BingoBoingo: I think, actually checking would take time away from newsmining

16:19:26 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2016#1399834 << why would you need idiots ?

16:19:26 assbot: Logged on 08-02-2016 16:14:35; mircea_popescu: nubbins` my problem is that i really can't stand idiots.

16:19:40 ascii_butugychag: use smart folks

16:20:01 ascii_butugychag: add moar gurlz, or something

16:20:17 mircea_popescu: !ip jimmy16

16:20:28 nubbins`: "free piez 4 smrt people" leaflets

16:20:30 nubbins`: i like it

16:20:45 thestringpuller: ;;later tell ben_vulpes Box is stood up. Hope you enjoyed superbowl.

16:20:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:21:01 mircea_popescu: in argentina ? i'd end up buried under a 10mn pile of flaming idiots who think they're smart and http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116472

16:21:02 assbot: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbq4oM )

16:21:12 mircea_popescu: "do i have any proof for my <<<claim>>> they're idiots ???"

16:27:33 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jingle-mail-alberta-housing-1.3430867

16:27:34 assbot: Jingle mail rears its ugly head in Alberta again - Calgary - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbqXOj )

16:28:17 mircea_popescu: whassat ?

16:34:07 ascii_butugychag: http://fraudsters.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116476

16:34:09 assbot: B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/20Rib9r )

16:35:06 nubbins`: mircea_popescu alberta has a peculiarity of law where one can walk away from one's mortgage, mail the keys to the bank, & not have any further liability

16:35:33 nubbins`: and now the gov is QQing because a bunch of people are doing it

16:35:34 mircea_popescu: i would call any OTHER law peculiar.

16:35:59 nubbins`: well say in the meantime you razed the house and added a viper-and-mercury pit

16:36:17 nubbins`: lender's out $x

16:36:18 ascii_butugychag: nubbins`: oh noez, fleeing serfs !

16:36:25 ascii_butugychag: somebody nail their feet to the ground !

16:36:34 mircea_popescu: nubbins` lender shouldn't have pissed you off then.

16:36:45 nubbins`: ascii_butugychag i was surprised to learn (a) that this exists only in alberta and (b) that it was once so common that they came up with a catchy name for it

16:36:52 mircea_popescu: credit is credit ; it works like credit. what makes banks special ?

16:37:03 ascii_butugychag: the tone of that article is vomit-inducing

16:38:34 nubbins`: the canadian housing market is very strange

16:40:12 nubbins`: !up ascii_butugychag

16:42:18 nubbins`: it'll be interesting watching canada regress to a hunter-gatherher society over these next few decades

16:42:40 nubbins`: maybe some small-scale subsistence windowsill farming in between to help bridge the gap

16:43:05 mircea_popescu: it would be fucking great. there's absolutely no reason for canada to pretend it's a sort of europe anymore than there's reason for argentina to.

16:43:17 mircea_popescu: fucking frozen wastes/soy fields ultra crepidam already.

17:18:37 shinohai: ;;blocks

17:18:38 gribble: 397409

17:34:41 thestringpuller: agrentina has rainforests tho. which is cool.

17:34:54 thestringpuller: canada has like...tundra

17:35:03 BingoBoingo: One for ascii_butugychag, US police treated as military problem in da club https://archive.is/zJdvN guess who won?

17:35:06 assbot: LeSean McCoy, Curtis Brinkley in altercation with off-duty police | Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia ... ( http://bit.ly/1nYj9TF )

17:35:06 nubbins`: and rainforests

17:36:14 nubbins`: been playing with synthesizers a lot lately

17:37:54 nubbins`: recently watched "i dream of wires" and was sorely disappointed by it

17:39:16 BingoBoingo: In other news Rush Limbaugh just saved Rubio's Saturday debate performance with the other candidates were wrong for insisting Bahamas is jsut stupid and not instead abjectly evil.

17:54:52 asciilifeform: !up ascii_butugychag

17:55:01 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: sport snore

17:55:24 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: But one of them cracked a law enforcement skull

17:55:31 ascii_butugychag: so?

17:55:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00057252 = 7.1279 BTC [-] {3}

17:56:16 BingoBoingo: Just offering for the record that on equal terms US police lose to demographics with more sophisticated doping methods

17:56:46 ascii_butugychag: but the very definition of police is the unequal terms.

17:57:27 BingoBoingo: Right, but this time they were on the wrong side of unequal

17:58:14 ascii_butugychag: ianal, but afaik most usa subjurisdictions multiply penalty manyfold for damaging a whole policeman

17:58:27 ascii_butugychag: (vs same done to somebody else)

17:58:44 ascii_butugychag: this too is part of the 'unequal terms' thing

17:59:51 BingoBoingo: Notable in this case is police are struggling to get arrest warrants for the sportsball players

18:04:11 BingoBoingo: Many ways in this case that the police for the moment are on the wrong side of unequal

18:08:50 thestringpuller: thought it was common "street honor" not to kill five-oh. cop has to do something really fucked up for actual criminal (the one's capable of organizing) to do "whole harm" to one, unless society has finally devolved into all out barbarism here

18:11:57 BingoBoingo: Cop had Champagne and Sportsball player had none in that moment. Apparently that was fucked up enough.

18:17:54 ascii_butugychag: in other equally-interesting news, somebody somewhere prolly got mauled by a rabid dog today.

18:18:22 PeterL: actually, it was a leopard

18:18:48 PeterL: (and it was 3 people)

18:19:19 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: I far more interesting news some dude in India was smote by a meteor

18:19:24 BingoBoingo: *In

18:20:42 BingoBoingo: Picture of the scene of the smiting http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/one-dies-as-meteorite-falls-in-vellore/article8204671.ece

18:20:43 assbot: One dies as ‘meteorite’ falls in Vellore - The Hindu ... ( http://bit.ly/1mnRKsC )

18:25:24 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

18:28:43 mats: wut

18:29:34 mats: why would you do anything less than kill cop and annihilate the remains, when it comes to harm?

18:30:17 ascii_butugychag: because idiot bull ?

18:30:33 mats: give the fella a chance to tell his buddies, have you beaten by plainclothesman in holding cell?

18:31:32 ascii_butugychag: again, what do you expect from a walking hindbrain ?

18:31:39 mircea_popescu: oddly enough, criminals have enough sense to murder rape victim ; do not have enough sense to murder police dude after altercation.

18:31:44 mircea_popescu: women have it pretty rough huh.

18:32:40 mats: m-muh mens rights

18:32:46 mircea_popescu: extra lulz points if the "rationale" is something along the lines of "hey, we'll kiss and make up".

18:33:07 mircea_popescu: your odds to manage that with woman you just fucked without asking about 1000x your odds to manage that with policeman that lost some teeth.

18:36:10 ascii_butugychag: su police, at least formally, were forbidden to appear anywhere in public except as 2+ man group.

18:36:27 ascii_butugychag: for this reason.

18:36:39 mats: ascii_butugychag: who is the 'idiot bull', 'walking hindbrain'?

18:36:47 ascii_butugychag: the ball player

18:36:57 mats: ok

18:37:04 ascii_butugychag: (and likely also the policeman, but that is outside the scope)

18:37:33 ascii_butugychag: i really do not grasp why BingoBoingo enthusiastically follows the doings of walking hindbrains, but that's his business

18:38:19 ascii_butugychag: personally i find the daily life, birth and death of that meteorite linked earlier, more interesting

18:38:25 ascii_butugychag: it is a chunk of stone, but at least it is ~rare~

18:38:49 ascii_butugychag: idiot stotting bulls are a dime a dozen.

18:38:59 ascii_butugychag: and all sum to 0.

18:39:24 ascii_butugychag: (apparently they almost invariably even piss away 100% of the serious money that is paid to them)

18:40:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00057002 = 9.6903 BTC [-] {2}

18:40:26 thestringpuller: it's fun to watch them smash into each other over ball

18:54:24 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> idiot stotting bulls are a dime a dozen. << they're a dime a dozen exactly like how microscope is a dime a dozen in post-usg us.

18:54:32 mircea_popescu: "hey, i can get rocks over here too"

18:56:26 thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag

19:06:46 BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> su police, at least formally, were forbidden to appear anywhere in public except as 2+ man group. << This is part of what interests me in this case. 4 police officers met 4 hindbrains in mutual combat and lost resoundingly. If not for the equal numbers would be far less interesting.

19:09:41 BingoBoingo: Other more boring stories about this species of hindbrain beating police in confrontations this year are piling up, but this is starting to look like a trend.

19:18:50 BingoBoingo: The proper approach to sportsball hindbrains is considering them as a sort of Nevada test site, but for optimizing performance of doorkickers. The trend of these hindbrains whooping the police suggests that the "Black Lives Matter" business is internalizing with the ordinance and the Trinity bomb is going feral.

19:27:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_butugychag

19:27:58 BingoBoingo: But yeah, seems to support the Gendarmie hypothesis

19:30:25 mod6: ascii_butugychag: hi, does this work ok for some reasonable output information for the origin command? http://dpaste.com/2N4BNVW.txt

19:30:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20FPf7V )

19:30:39 mod6: I've basically just added the corresponding source file in the data there.

19:30:59 ascii_butugychag: mod6: looks just like what i had, aha

19:31:10 ascii_butugychag: mod6 et al: is it now clear why i had this knob ?

19:31:58 ascii_butugychag: (did i even have the filename in there? no matter, this is what we want)

19:32:48 BingoBoingo: In other news FSF certified the Talos Power8 workstation board. Looks like Stallman has a new computer.

19:33:16 mod6: and just to verify, we *do* want to be looking at the post-patch hash value correct? the 'b' as opposed to the 'a'.

19:33:46 mod6: this will give us when the hash was introduced, not the last time it was changed.

19:34:43 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: gotta love the unobtainium

19:34:50 ascii_butugychag: recall his loongson ?

19:35:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35474 @ 0.00057716 = 20.4742 BTC [+] {4}

19:35:22 BingoBoingo: Yeah, and web browsing by wget to his email inbox

19:35:52 BingoBoingo: Or something like that

19:36:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5226 @ 0.0005799 = 3.0306 BTC [+]

19:37:24 *: mod6 is just pondering weather the converse is useful. finding the last time the file was changed from <given> hash

19:37:25 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: i specifically mean his 'follow my example, use this here iron!!111' 'but no there is no place for you to get it, hahahaha'

19:37:38 BingoBoingo: Ah

19:38:11 ascii_butugychag: at least i finally hunted down a 'thinkpad x60'

19:38:17 ascii_butugychag: (for lulz)

19:38:20 BingoBoingo: Even got loaned out to get benchmarked https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=talos-workstation&num=3

19:38:21 assbot: For $3100 USD You Can Have A Fast, Fully-Free-Software Workstation - Phoronix ... ( http://bit.ly/20FQjsq )

19:38:28 BingoBoingo: LinuxBIOS?

19:38:38 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: theoretically

19:38:52 ascii_butugychag: (the crate has not come in yet)

19:39:19 mod6: so, by finding the origin of a given hash, such as 'false', this yields us the files that have since been removed from origin: http://dpaste.com/25JSTRY.txt

19:39:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20FQnsd )

19:39:28 mod6: s/from origin/since genesis/

19:39:47 mod6: make sense?

19:40:11 ascii_butugychag: aha

19:40:16 ascii_butugychag: i can see how this might come in handy

19:40:37 mod6: ok, i'll leave origin in for this second beta patch.

19:42:40 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: also gotta love how a single-source, 'monoculture' box built by ibm, as far from wot as can possibly be imagined, is now somehow an appealing thing for 'phree' enthusiasts

19:42:55 BingoBoingo: Seriously

19:43:34 ascii_butugychag: also the nsa fund for this must've been quite pitiful, one would at least suppose they could have it secretly subsidized so it prices to sell !

19:43:39 ascii_butugychag: but no, 3+k

19:45:17 ascii_butugychag: this being said, if the thing consisted 100% of ~documented~ fpga fabric, i would buy it

19:45:21 ascii_butugychag: but notice how this is not so.

19:45:34 ascii_butugychag: !s specificity principle

19:45:35 assbot: 0 results for 'specificity principle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=specificity+principle

19:45:41 ascii_butugychag: !s specificity diddling

19:45:42 assbot: 12 results for 'specificity diddling' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=specificity+diddling

19:45:47 ascii_butugychag: here we go.

19:47:03 BingoBoingo: Desire for FPGA instead gets you $6 PASCAL machine

19:48:02 BingoBoingo: But 3k price tag likely seems to target gullible potentially disloyal lizards. The Clintons and Sean Bridges.

19:48:51 ascii_butugychag: i don't object to the price, this is quite cheap for a proper computer

19:49:35 ascii_butugychag: just that it is unlikely to end up on the desks of the poor 'lone types' mircea_popescu discussed earlier

19:49:52 ascii_butugychag: and therefore is weak honeypot sauce.

19:50:32 ascii_butugychag: but i would readily pay 10k for a box with ONLY open fpga

19:50:44 BingoBoingo: Poor 'lone types' get their own honeypots. This is for rich and mortgaged 'lone types'

19:50:48 ascii_butugychag: (nothing else. no nic, bring own dc power to rail)

19:52:20 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

19:52:27 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 371.5, vol: 5619.07262334 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 377.5, vol: 3644.0701 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 371.49, vol: 14939.00807539 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 365.0, vol: 0.07478758 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.580345, vol: 13589.39610000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 371.6601, vol: 390.88254018 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 376.5216, vol: 116.37527974 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

19:52:42 BingoBoingo: ;;more

19:52:42 gribble: 376.725100753

19:52:49 ascii_butugychag: also no prizes for this guess, but 100% of the 'power8' will be running poetteringola and drepperism

19:53:12 BingoBoingo: Easily

19:53:35 ascii_butugychag: anyone recall mircea_popescu's fable about the trucks ?

19:54:04 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-04-2015#1091236 << found

19:54:04 assbot: Logged on 07-04-2015 21:23:54; mircea_popescu: then the outline showed up. "the change will be introduced in phases. for the first five years, only trucks and vehicles over 5 tons will switch to driving on right"

19:57:58 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

19:58:37 BingoBoingo: aha

19:58:56 PeterL: !up Peter00

20:03:27 mircea_popescu: mod6 im not even sure we can depend on a notion of "time" for v purposes.

20:05:14 ascii_butugychag: v supports one time - 'now'

20:05:18 mircea_popescu: aha.

20:05:26 mircea_popescu: sorta like horny teenagers

20:05:26 ascii_butugychag: but with possible local variations. sorta like relativistic mechanics.

20:07:39 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 im not even sure we can depend on a notion of "time" for v purposes. << oh yeah 'the last time' is probably a bad choice of words, "the last alteration" or some such.

20:07:52 mircea_popescu: basically count nodes

20:07:54 mod6: anyway, doesn't matter for now anyway.

20:08:11 mod6: im just gonna leave what i've got in there. will replicate what alf's does.

20:08:26 mircea_popescu: worx.

20:09:28 ascii_butugychag: i will half-seriously suggest that we refer to the ~set of patches, seals, keys~ that a particular vtron is aware of at his particular point in spacetime, as... his lightcone

20:12:51 mircea_popescu: why not just the set.

20:13:56 ascii_butugychag: i suppose i should restate

20:14:19 ascii_butugychag: your 'set' is specifically what you have in a particular v shot, usually this includes your conscious choices for that run

20:14:43 mircea_popescu: that's the press

20:14:47 ascii_butugychag: your lightcone is all of the possible parts you have access to, and know of, at all, that you might build a set with

20:14:55 ascii_butugychag: your press is what you get from pressing a set.

20:15:42 mircea_popescu: well, what you get and what you start it. "what you press" -> press -> "what you pressed". ie, the press.

20:16:06 ascii_butugychag: you press - a set.

20:16:37 ascii_butugychag: anyway i can only suggest, if mod6 wants to call his 'bzortl' this is his to make

20:17:35 ascii_butugychag: light cones will be relevant once we get autonomous bots scouring the universe for v set components...

20:18:37 ascii_butugychag: but even now, folks who get their sets from mod6's mirror, and folks who get theirs from the ml, are on divergent lightcones

20:19:02 ascii_butugychag: and imho this is not an entirely inconsequential thing, and ought to be remembered.

20:24:05 BingoBoingo: https://www.scottishspca.org/rehome/details/?animal=303561

20:24:07 assbot: Rehome a pet ... ( http://bit.ly/1T0N4pf )

20:26:05 BingoBoingo: In other sports hindbrains http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man-dies-starting-krispy-kreme-challenge-raleigh-36783985

20:26:07 assbot: Man Dies After Starting Krispy Kreme Challenge in Raleigh - ABC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1T0NfkH )

20:28:51 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

20:45:12 ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://github.com/JHUISI/charm/tree/dev/charm/schemes << crypto algo zoo

20:45:14 assbot: charm/charm/schemes at dev · JHUISI/charm · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRc0h3 )

20:45:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:46:29 ascii_butugychag: ^ for educational reading, in case this is not obvious, rather than for battlefield

20:51:00 shinohai: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/67.236.44.54-8333/ \o/

20:51:00 assbot: 67.236.44.54:8333 - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1T0SnFl )

20:53:09 ascii_butugychag: congrats shinohai

20:53:23 ascii_butugychag: but i must point out that a trb node that isn't synced should not be added to connection lists

20:53:32 ascii_butugychag: as it will refuse to relay most tx.

20:53:39 shinohai: Almost @ 70% Just staryed that one a few days ago.

20:53:48 shinohai: *started

20:54:18 ascii_butugychag: this is, iirc, ~20% bytewise

21:10:18 shinohai: t!up ascii_butugychag

21:10:24 shinohai: !up ascii_butugychag

21:10:35 trinque: shinohai: got an SSD?

21:13:43 shinohai: Not yet trinque :(

21:14:19 shinohai: Probably in the upgrade plans for this year though.

21:14:22 trinque: may be extremly slow going from about 350k onward

21:14:48 shinohai: My home node was agonizingly slow fro 300k onward.

21:14:52 trinque: yeah

21:15:37 PeterL: has anybody had ideas for how to make syncing go faster?

21:15:49 thestringpuller: PeterL: SSD

21:17:09 mircea_popescu: in general, the checking of blocks should be properly paralelized. this is a complex task, and will take a while.

21:17:11 ascii_butugychag: PeterL: sign a copy of the blockchain, then push it to new box...

21:17:19 mircea_popescu: in practice results can be achieved with more hardware.

21:17:42 mircea_popescu: the power rangers have esentially gone down the path of "well... let's just not do checking", which is exactly in line with us fashions.

21:17:54 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: actually it would be quite trivial to parallelize, i just haven't the hands presently

21:17:54 PeterL: has anybody here published signed blockchains?

21:18:21 ascii_butugychag: and i measured what takes up most of a sync time - it isn't verification

21:18:24 ascii_butugychag: but i/o derpery

21:18:25 thestringpuller: PeterL: mircea_popescu used to

21:18:35 thestringpuller: on mpex proxy somewhere

21:18:39 ascii_butugychag: and transmission of blocks which can't possibly be absorbed at time t

21:18:39 thestringpuller: forgot where that link went tho

21:18:53 ascii_butugychag: the stock sync mechanism is batshit insane

21:19:30 PeterL: yeah, it seems like there should be a way to tell it to cache some blocks to check later?

21:19:40 ascii_butugychag: no.

21:19:51 ascii_butugychag: i killed this with my own hands

21:19:56 shinohai: I keep backup copy of blockchain on pogo now, I have it syncing from real node every 12 hours.

21:19:57 ascii_butugychag: because it is fucktarded.

21:19:58 PeterL: but I guess that would open up a ddos attack vector?

21:20:04 ascii_butugychag: DID open up.

21:20:08 ascii_butugychag: !s orphanage

21:20:08 assbot: 130 results for 'orphanage' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orphanage

21:20:30 PeterL: but could you connect to a trusted node to get past that?

21:20:41 phf: i recall that was first major trb patch

21:21:02 ascii_butugychag: we have no such thing as 'connect to trusted node'

21:21:04 thestringpuller: orphanage thermonuke test 2

21:21:06 ascii_butugychag: because we haven't any crypto

21:21:16 ascii_butugychag: and nodes haven't any actual hard identity as consequence

21:21:28 ascii_butugychag: i thought we've been through this 1,001 times.

21:21:49 thestringpuller: but openssl

21:21:58 phf: but the thinking at the time was that trb peers shouldn't be cascade sending you bogus chains, when you don't ask for them, and that optimization should start with improvements to block request/response mechanism

21:22:48 mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> the stock sync mechanism is batshit insane << this yes. but even if all that were fixed, verification will still take time.

21:23:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10936 @ 0.00057795 = 6.3205 BTC [-]

21:23:29 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it takes ~10-20s on a reasonable box, for a full block

21:23:37 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:23:53 mircea_popescu: 400k blocks = 2k hours, 100 days.

21:24:02 ascii_butugychag: if they were full.

21:24:12 mircea_popescu: i was discussing the problem in its general form!

21:24:19 phf: it seems like a cool profiling target, how long it takes to eatblock entire chain across different ssds on some test hardware

21:24:25 ascii_butugychag: but i can't argue that the serial processing is asinine

21:24:33 ascii_butugychag: it certainly ~is~

21:24:34 mircea_popescu: phf it's so fucking random you'd have to do 1000s of assays

21:24:51 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: eatblock is deterministic

21:25:10 ascii_butugychag: and can be used even on a nic-less box

21:25:12 ascii_butugychag: (yes)

21:25:17 mircea_popescu: oh sorry he meant eatblock-the-term-of-art

21:25:25 phf: trb eatblock

21:25:27 ascii_butugychag: btw this means, in case nobody noticed in the summer,

21:25:32 mircea_popescu: i missed that part :p

21:25:35 ascii_butugychag: that you can theoretically maintain an airgapped trb node...

21:25:45 mircea_popescu: well yes.

21:25:54 mircea_popescu: wasn't that the point, mostly ?

21:26:12 ascii_butugychag: the point was actually to hunt for leakz

21:26:22 ascii_butugychag: but there are several 'off label' uses, aha.

21:27:02 mircea_popescu: in more stakhanov news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/0f4344bd0e00c15f5c530e3c3088ae02/tumblr_npy7taavP01rdc5oto1_400.gif

21:27:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3Zd7O )

21:27:36 shinohai: ^ how I imagine mircea_popescu would mine for BTC

21:27:48 ascii_butugychag: (picture a trb box eating blocks via diode, and shitting tx out another diode, when the knife switch is on, strictly)

21:42:13 shinohai: !up ascii_butugychag

21:52:27 ascii_butugychag: http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/62999/refusing-to-cite-paywalled-papers << where we find a jwz:

21:52:28 assbot: citations - Refusing to cite paywalled papers - Academia Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q41u2Q )

21:52:33 ascii_butugychag: ' your ideological battles should not be waged on the backs of readers and authors who dedicate their lives to producing and disseminating good science. But if you want to commit career suicide, no one will stop you.'

21:53:29 mircea_popescu: pfff.

21:54:00 mircea_popescu: show me some of this good science an english speaker produced on the basis of anglopsychosis.

21:54:04 mircea_popescu: aka "academia"

21:54:40 mircea_popescu: seems the concept is more likely a derivation of "good law", ie, conventionally not-discarded yet, than actual science in any sense

21:55:22 ascii_butugychag: every other year i do end up dragging my arse to uni library solely to excavate forth a paper

21:55:37 ascii_butugychag: virtually always, they are older than i am

22:14:53 punkman: https://github.com/samshadwell/TrumpScript

22:14:55 assbot: GitHub - samshadwell/TrumpScript: Make Python great again ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q43Crj )

22:58:37 thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag

23:24:08 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Major changes in Eulora ; Another auction. - http://fraudsters.com/2016/major-changes-in-eulora-another-auction/

23:58:46 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6yk0nTQ4d1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

23:58:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20kKdIv )