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Transcript for 08-08-2015, 1789 lines:

00:00:25 asciilifeform: this was mostly understood by the enthusiasts around a decade ago, but some of the response was also pathological: 'let's bolt on a huge turd of a standard library'

00:00:33 asciilifeform: which the 'official committee' did

00:00:46 asciilifeform: landing in a kind of 'worst of both worlds' valley

00:01:28 asciilifeform: scheme remains 1) a very clean scripting language to embed in another proggy 2) a very spiffy starting point for a future lisp (including hardware)

00:02:23 asciilifeform: and 3) great student exercise, where the kids won't demand to hear why both 'elt' and 'nth' exist (perennial retardation example from cl, which was born in a 'no vendor left behind' multi-turdculturist compromise)

00:03:12 asciilifeform: the original scheme ~standard~ is <50 pages.

00:03:23 asciilifeform: of reasonably large text.

00:03:35 asciilifeform: a ~reasonable~ scheme is about 1000 lines of c.

00:03:57 asciilifeform: (half of this if you're willing to forgo informative error handling, and some of the more difficult features like 'call/cc')

00:05:17 asciilifeform: https://github.com/catseye/minischeme << well-known example.

00:05:18 assbot: catseye/minischeme · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS42CI )

00:07:36 asciilifeform: scheme 'fits in head.'

00:07:53 asciilifeform: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html << device for fitting it into a head

00:07:54 assbot: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkcUVL )

00:08:03 asciilifeform: ... of computer programz.

00:08:12 asciilifeform: ^ mega-b00k

00:08:51 asciilifeform: phun phakt: when it appeared, american schools began to use it as a mandatory undergrad textbook. and you can measure precisely when each school turned full-bore retard by ~when they stopped~

00:09:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#920453 << that sussman

00:09:16 assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 23:07:45; mircea_popescu: At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

00:09:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097906 << see also.

00:09:45 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: re: the mit thing:

00:10:16 asciilifeform: mit (the home of sussman and the original arena for this) officially became irredeemably doomed in my eyes when they stopped.

00:11:09 asciilifeform: the book (lovingly referred to as sicp, 'sick pee') is a textbook illustration of precisely what i mean when i say 'fits in head'.

00:11:56 asciilifeform: (describes not scheme per se, but walks the student through implementing scheme in scheme, and then implementing a detailed simulator for a machine which is the intrinsic minimum for executing scheme.)

00:12:43 asciilifeform: the subject swallows own arse, and either disappears in a flash of gamma rays, or becomes an adult computerist

00:16:29 nubbins`: hi

00:17:09 asciilifeform: hi nubbins`

00:17:27 nubbins`: what's new?

00:17:36 asciilifeform: not much

00:17:39 asciilifeform: but it's all in the logz.

00:17:57 nubbins`: no kidding, hey.

00:19:42 nubbins`: i designed some posters this week: http://imgur.com/a/QhwUN

00:19:42 assbot: Shed Island 2015 Posters - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1gketTz )

00:23:47 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? thing is, nobody ever invented 'reasonably priced electronics sold to sane people.' that is, no one has ever demonstrated the economic feasibility of this. the only kinds of computer sold in perhaps 25 years were: a) sold to chumps buying forced 'pr0gr3ssss' and b) so expensive everyone shits his pants

00:23:47 assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.

00:24:22 asciilifeform: see also the old thread re: how no one ever, to date, non-fraudulently financed the production of a bitcoin miner.

00:25:35 asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu suddenly feels like commissioning the production of an ic from own personal lunch money, who am i to discourage

00:25:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4721 @ 0.00058309 = 2.7528 BTC [-]

00:26:44 asciilifeform: but this is very different from how the computer on everyone's desk was built

00:27:19 asciilifeform: and if attempted with any kind of scale, will make plutonium look cheap and plentiful in comparison.

00:28:04 asciilifeform: summary: nobody knows how to make selling computers +ev without the millions-of-planktonous-idiots market being involved somehow

00:28:42 nubbins`: hm, asicminer fraudulently produced ASIC production?

00:28:47 *: nubbins` wanders off in search of thread

00:28:50 asciilifeform: nubbins`: by fronting

00:29:00 asciilifeform: and front-mining.

00:29:07 nubbins`: o, right

00:29:09 asciilifeform: afaik all without exception miner vendors did this.

00:29:11 asciilifeform: heavily.

00:29:28 nubbins`: recall Avalons showing up w/ mining pool info left in config files etc

00:29:45 asciilifeform: no one even tried to hide.

00:29:56 nubbins`: why would you? everyone who bothered to think knew

00:30:07 nubbins`: everyone who just saw $$$ stopped thinking

00:30:16 asciilifeform: the perpetrators were convinced that the chumps were convinced that there is simply no other way.

00:30:35 asciilifeform: (and who am i to contend that they were wrong?)

00:31:01 nubbins`: ^ you buy a butchered pig, the farmer's keeping your tenderloin tips.

00:31:06 asciilifeform: production of ic is an ~intensely, ruinously~ expensive affair, quite on par with space flight

00:31:18 asciilifeform: very few folks seem to understand the full depth of this

00:31:27 nubbins`: am i incorrect in that AM etc early models essentially just baked an FPGA design?

00:31:35 asciilifeform: nubbins`: afaik they STILL do

00:31:38 asciilifeform: !s hardcopy fpga

00:31:38 assbot: 4 results for 'hardcopy fpga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hardcopy+fpga

00:31:40 nubbins`: ah, heh.

00:31:58 nubbins`: yeah, sure

00:32:20 asciilifeform: just to add to the already forming lsd trip in this thread: i'm not personally convinced that ic production HAS EVER BEEN +EV

00:32:27 nubbins`: o.O

00:32:40 asciilifeform: it is conceivable the the entire ic age has been fueled by a continuously-rolling 'jam tomorrow' bezzle

00:32:42 nubbins`: you gotta qualify that w/ scale or smth

00:33:42 asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic

00:33:48 asciilifeform: in fact, they... well.

00:34:23 nubbins`: TBH i think stuff like VLSI is only kept going because everyone involved is afraid the machines won't start up again if they stop

00:34:35 asciilifeform: something can well be ubiquitous, fun to have around, considered a basic element of civilization - and ultimately be -EV.

00:34:45 asciilifeform: sitting on the 'expense' side of the ledger for running civilization.

00:34:55 nubbins`: like parties, for example.

00:35:00 asciilifeform: all good and well, we all want toilets, condoms, cpus.

00:35:08 asciilifeform: but too much of this and - broke.

00:35:18 asciilifeform: and 'why did we collapse'

00:35:38 nubbins`: ooh, is it because we drowned in plastic and trademarked seeds?

00:35:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223740 << see also.

00:35:56 assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 04:05:11; asciilifeform: 'the gods of the copybook headings' (tm) (r) (kipling!)

00:40:33 nubbins`: and then i found myself in a spiral of photolitho articles.

00:40:54 *: nubbins` drools, imagines machinery

00:42:39 funkenstein_: I just bought: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - 2nd Edition (MIT Electrical Engineering and Computer Science)

00:45:41 funkenstein_: Gresham's law of computing: bad codez drives out good, when both accepted by noobz

00:46:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81300 @ 0.00058716 = 47.7361 BTC [+] {4}

00:46:56 nubbins`: was gonna argue but realized i misread

00:46:57 nubbins`: +1

00:47:04 trinque: asciilifeform: how bout I show you what I've produced tomorrow re: self-replicating gentoo and get your feedback?

00:47:17 trinque: idea is the same thing on the stick ends up on the computer, then the computer's equipped to repeat

00:47:53 trinque: I am to the point where a bootable root.img is repeatably produced

00:49:39 nubbins`: lel.

00:49:41 nubbins`: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/23/call-off-the-bee-pocalypse-u-s-honeybee-colonies-hit-a-20-year-high/

00:49:42 assbot: Call off the bee-pocalypse: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1KVYqZK )

00:49:56 nubbins`: from log

00:50:22 nubbins`: "call off the police: law-abiding citizen count higher than ever"

00:52:55 nubbins`: o hey, friend of mine designed an album cover for an astronaut.

00:53:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99860 @ 0.00058083 = 58.0017 BTC [-] {5}

00:55:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57450 @ 0.00057882 = 33.2532 BTC [-]

01:05:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60650 @ 0.00057808 = 35.0606 BTC [-] {3}

01:19:00 asciilifeform: trinque: aha

01:19:52 asciilifeform: re: ic thread: whole thing is kinda coming together in my skull. quite likely ~^^this^^~ is why it is impossible to borrow money to fund a computer-related anything, without a convincing plan to somehow pass the bezzle to a greater chump

01:20:14 asciilifeform: ~this~ is why just about every large ic maker in history has either gone broke or become a quasi-governmental entity

01:21:03 asciilifeform: note that 'people want computerz' is not enough for the industry to be +ev

01:21:12 asciilifeform: i.e., people want dildoes. yes.

01:21:33 asciilifeform: but what if a dildo intrinsically cost more to make, energy/resource-wise, than the user could ever hope to repay ?

01:21:37 asciilifeform: it'd be rather like spacewalks

01:21:55 asciilifeform: so it is not enough for there to be a market of want-ers. they also gotta be pay-ers

01:22:34 asciilifeform: but if the treat is delicious enough, and bezzlatronics invented, the non-pay-er want-ers easily turn into borrowers.

01:23:05 nubbins`: When asked, hypothetically, how he would pay for complicated life-saving surgery for a loved one, Polk seemed uncertain. "That's a lot of vegetables, isn't it?" he said.

01:23:14 asciilifeform: ^

01:23:22 nubbins`: (from http://www.theonion.com/article/us-economy-grinds-to-halt-as-nation-realizes-money-2912)

01:23:23 assbot: 404 - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmKXQ )

01:23:37 nubbins`: whoops, guess that broke assbot's url handler

01:23:40 nubbins`: (from http://www.theonion.com/article/us-economy-grinds-to-halt-as-nation-realizes-money-2912 )

01:23:41 assbot: U.S. Economy Grinds To Halt As Nation Realizes Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmM1K )

01:24:09 asciilifeform: practical outgrowth of this hypothesis is that, if it is true, quite likely that most of the cpu that will EVER be produced, have been produced.

01:24:25 nubbins`: peak silicon!

01:24:25 asciilifeform: ditto anything else which requires vlsi

01:24:48 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/02/industrys-parting-gifts.html << quite obligatory.

01:24:49 assbot: ClubOrlov: Industry's Parting Gifts ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmVSV )

01:25:23 asciilifeform: 'This, then, should be the new main thrust of industrial activity: to manufacture and distribute products with the understanding that this process will run out of resources and stop. These products must be designed to outlive the process by which they are made, by as long as possible.'

01:26:09 asciilifeform: orlov does conflate several unrelated phenomena (in particular, zooming into resource exhaustion to the exclusion of just about all other aspects of problem)

01:26:30 nubbins`: good enough to keep me going until it's time to head out

01:27:19 asciilifeform: the basic problem with -ev is not that eventually you run out of shitanium and unobtainium (though you will) but that you will be getting poorer, monotonically, and not realize precisely why

01:27:24 asciilifeform: and then run up other 'debts'

01:27:37 asciilifeform: in a vain attempt to avoid being ground into mud

01:29:00 asciilifeform: to bring back to concretes, ussr could have done something else with the manpower they sank into cloning pdp, z80

01:29:05 asciilifeform: and churning out those things

01:29:46 nubbins`: but what!

01:29:52 asciilifeform: not a question for me

01:30:18 asciilifeform: ask the folks in the alt-universe where vlsi didn't happen

01:30:28 asciilifeform: perhaps biological strange of some kind

01:30:40 asciilifeform: perhaps herbert's 'mentats', l0l

01:31:23 mod6: I'm gonna re-tackle the rotor build tomorrow btw.

01:31:30 asciilifeform: mod6: neato!

01:31:40 mod6: Been bogged down with fiat job manditory overtime bs.

01:34:18 asciilifeform: i am now looking for the mircea_popescu article where he hypothesized that 'bezzle' is, without exception, born out of people doing things that are -ev on the large scale - in just the same way as elements heavier than iron are born in supernova

01:34:22 nubbins`: heh

01:34:25 nubbins`: dem mentats!

01:34:33 asciilifeform: if anyone has the link (or if i hallucinated this existing) please say.

01:34:34 *: nubbins` applauds softly

01:36:01 asciilifeform: just to work out example on a napkin. say you, a king, want a pyramid built. could a) conscript ten thousand folks to work to death building it b) debase the currency and hire builders

01:36:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 238450 @ 0.00056928 = 135.7448 BTC [-] {9}

01:36:26 asciilifeform: i contend that (b) necessarily involves the same amount of enslavement as (a)

01:36:31 asciilifeform: just distributed another way.

01:37:14 asciilifeform: the thing that makes the pyramid a pyramid, at least in a schoolbook example, is that it is not something anyone (but the king) actually ~wants~ that much

01:37:29 asciilifeform: while being costly

01:37:53 *: asciilifeform is roughly aware that the story of actual egyptian pyramids was rather more complicated

01:38:45 asciilifeform: anyway this thread really cannot go anywhere without a mircea_popescu, so i will leave it here.

01:39:19 nubbins`: heh

01:39:38 nubbins`: the pyramid builders had one more thing going for them

01:40:01 nubbins`: and it's the same thing that the church builders had going for them

01:40:18 asciilifeform: could be done 'on installment plan', aha.

01:40:18 nubbins`: altho the church builders were generally more free to fuck off and do something else

01:40:27 asciilifeform: function of above.

01:40:45 asciilifeform: didn't really have a 'takeoff velocity'

01:40:51 nubbins`: nah, what i was going at is that people wanted to do it for free

01:40:58 nubbins`: but, this is now a relic of the past

01:41:08 nubbins`: no stonemasons work for the good of their community any longer

01:41:29 asciilifeform: find me a fella willing to wear a gas suit and wash si in HF all day, every day, 'for the good of' something-or-other.

01:41:42 nubbins`: not in 1st world anyway. when i was in the sacred valley of peru, right in the middle of a 7 hour hike i came across a bunch of guys building a church outta mud bricks

01:41:52 asciilifeform: mud bricks - can have.

01:41:57 asciilifeform: space launch, si fab - no.

01:42:14 nubbins`: asciilifeform the fact that the si and hf exists means the guy's probably not as much of a fuckin rube as the dude who built the church his grandfather was married in

01:42:31 nubbins`: there's tricks you can still pull and tricks you can't

01:42:39 nubbins`: salvation is on its way out as a motivator

01:42:45 asciilifeform: long ago.

01:43:01 nubbins`: science sort of drives it out

01:43:23 asciilifeform: http://orwell.ru/library/articles/notes/english/e_notew << see also.

01:43:24 assbot: George Orwell: Notes on the Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkpEMc )

01:44:15 nubbins`: this intro sold me on the rest of it

01:46:09 mircea_popescu: and on the light front, http://36.media.tumblr.com/82e04f73b678c13af881ca4eea36f11d/tumblr_nbjghbxS3F1tve9e7o1_1280.jpg

01:46:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1W72p8Z )

01:47:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68212 @ 0.0006019 = 41.0568 BTC [+] {5}

01:47:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?

01:47:53 mircea_popescu: if not advantage, why is it even here.

01:48:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174188 @ 0.00061043 = 106.3296 BTC [+] {6}

01:48:32 mircea_popescu: not that the presence of "official committees" isn't a sign that the thing's dead/dying.

01:49:59 nubbins`: oh, city workers knocked on my door the other day requesting entry for "propertyassessment"

01:50:15 mircea_popescu: da fuck is that.

01:50:20 mircea_popescu: the soviet thing ?

01:50:51 nubbins`: it's where they count your bathrooms and look at your basement and make sure they're charging you enough property tax

01:51:15 nubbins`: and the homeowner tells you to fuck off

01:51:49 mircea_popescu: you should charge.

01:52:14 mircea_popescu: "guided tour, naked - $50. add $1000 per oz of clothes. shoes $500 flat fee."

01:52:32 mircea_popescu: "pictures - you take, $10 each ; of you - free"

01:52:45 nubbins`: heh

01:52:49 nubbins`: actually it's the other way around

01:53:02 mircea_popescu: orly.

01:53:04 nubbins`: you don't let em in, they're forced to do their assessment from the street

01:53:14 nubbins`: and you waive the right to appeal o.O

01:53:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.

01:53:19 assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.

01:53:31 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no such thing. you can't waive by refusal.

01:54:17 mircea_popescu: "by sucking my cock you waive your right to complain about its girth" < formally valid law.

01:54:32 mircea_popescu: "by refusing to suck my cock you waive your right to fart" < formally invalid.

01:54:53 nubbins`: "by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"

01:55:00 mircea_popescu: nope.

01:55:11 mircea_popescu: you don't claim "that you don't".

01:55:13 nubbins`: "by refusing the breathalyzer, you waive the right to claim you're sober"

01:55:22 mircea_popescu: and this "you made me do" bs is for tired mothers.

01:55:24 *: nubbins` shrugs

01:55:28 nubbins`: listen, i don't disagree

01:55:29 mircea_popescu: except no, you don't.

01:55:36 nubbins`: but am i gonna spend a year in court arguing it?

01:55:51 mircea_popescu: if they lose they pay, right ?

01:56:08 nubbins`: meantime, i have paper to cut, feet to rest on coffee tables...

01:56:22 nubbins`: the process of making them lose is itself an unreasonable burden

01:56:22 mircea_popescu: which means, i'll spend fifty, because hey, it keeps one or more lawyers owing me for the bread i provided them

01:56:31 mircea_popescu: depends. if it is the place sucks.

01:56:38 mircea_popescu: generally it's quite lucrative.

01:56:48 nubbins`: i have neither the means nor the will

01:57:16 mircea_popescu: you need like a patron over there.

01:57:24 nubbins`: and not just of the arts, either

01:57:42 mircea_popescu: incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.

01:58:08 nubbins`: too many electric cutters

01:58:18 nubbins`: we're more of a quality over quantity sort of shop

01:58:43 mircea_popescu: aha

01:59:15 nubbins`: i do have a lovely plough, cca 14th century tech, that can trim a phone book cleaner than the phone book factory does

01:59:41 nubbins`: cuts so clean you could shave in 'em.

01:59:44 mircea_popescu: but not cheaper.

02:00:21 nubbins`: goodness no.

02:00:42 nubbins`: this isn't always the metric tho

02:01:03 mircea_popescu: i have a dog that can slobber better than any race horse :D

02:01:26 *: nubbins` points to client who paid $1ea for business cards, printed and trimmed by hand, because digital offset shop w/ electronic die cutter did such a shitty job o.O

02:01:30 mircea_popescu: aaanyway, im done ruining your fun, bbl.

02:01:38 nubbins`: wait, i was having fun? :D

02:01:46 mircea_popescu: hehe

02:03:12 nubbins`: http://www.louet.nl/en/bookbinding-vertical-plough

02:03:13 assbot: Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( http://bit.ly/1W7412z )

02:03:15 nubbins`: ^ my beast

02:04:08 nubbins`: ~$700usd plus s&h

02:04:34 nubbins`: add a spare blade, i think i dropped close to a thou on that fucking thing

02:06:14 nubbins`: anyway i should go listen to music and inhale drug smoke

02:06:15 nubbins`: peace

02:50:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229917 << a unified standard library never formed. a few implementation-specific fairly complete libraries - did, but the kind of folks attracted to scheme all turned nose at them (incl. me) - 'ewww, not orthogonal, not beautiful, not scheme at all' -- them (and me)

02:50:37 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:47:47; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?

02:51:03 asciilifeform: hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)

02:52:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229939 << speaking of naggum, recall that this is how he was taxed to death

02:52:20 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:54:53; nubbins`: "by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"

02:52:22 asciilifeform: (literally)

02:53:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229957 << orlov's mafia development stage. this is available ~right now~ just as in 1880 cosa nostra. BUT they use an ethnic filter to keep out usg. (the only filter known to work semi-reliably, sadly)

02:53:27 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:57:42; mircea_popescu: incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.

02:53:33 asciilifeform: so nubbins` or asciilifeform cannot play

02:56:18 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229934 << nobody cancelled thermodynamics. the concept ultimately applies - to various degrees - to anything one might do.

02:56:18 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:53:19; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.

02:56:53 asciilifeform: meaning, roughly, whether one can carry on doing it without borrowing/stealing something from somewhere outside the system under consideration

02:56:54 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229811 << in the movie 'Interstellar', the 'space race' is taught to children as a thing the us used to bankrupt the ussr, and rocket jockeys are villified

02:56:54 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:33:42; asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic

02:57:17 asciilifeform: ^ not far from fact

02:59:11 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229941 << similar system in usa. if you don't 'file tax', not only is there a fine levied, but the tax charged will be based on what usg 'thinks' you could have earned that year.

02:59:11 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:55:11; mircea_popescu: you don't claim "that you don't".

03:00:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ought to look up precisely what it is that folks are trying to get out of when they sue to be formally expelled from usa citizenship

03:00:52 asciilifeform: it is, largely, this.

03:02:28 mircea_popescu: i don't get the usl part.

03:02:39 asciilifeform: ??

03:02:39 mircea_popescu: why would it not form, if useful ? why would it be sought, if not useful ?

03:02:46 mircea_popescu: universal standard library

03:03:50 asciilifeform: because required 1) someone to write it 2) who could 'win' on one of the roughly 5 'standard wins' that i outline in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=305

03:03:52 assbot: Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2NPAC )

03:04:08 mircea_popescu: so it never attracted thinking people ?

03:04:16 asciilifeform: (i.e. by force of army, by 'everyone else sucks so profoundly in comparison that there can be no debate', ...

03:04:19 asciilifeform: )

03:04:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it also did not help that scheme was used as a torture ritual in schools

03:05:02 mircea_popescu: on the ethnic filter point, a) it was not actulaly the case historically (new york by ww1 was just about getting to the point of advancement) ; b) it'sjust the lazy man's approach to things. doesn't work, either.

03:05:03 asciilifeform: what work went on, was geared towards pedagogics

03:05:31 mircea_popescu: so it never actually provided an ysort of advantage, but merely the promise of perhaps one day.

03:05:55 asciilifeform: it solved approximately half the problem: 'kill the cruft'

03:06:03 mircea_popescu: i see.

03:06:06 asciilifeform: but only showed a vague sketch of how to solve the remaining half

03:06:11 asciilifeform: 'construct a habitable planet'

03:06:26 mircea_popescu: re the thermodynamics : people live and then die. their time is fundamentally free. no thermodynamics applies here.

03:06:40 asciilifeform: sorta like an old cement warehouse, somehow infested with vermin. yes, must exterminate the vermin. but then what.

03:07:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even when free, there are finite things they can do

03:07:28 asciilifeform: when building pyramid, you aren't harvesting fields, and somehow somebody will have to eat a bit less.

03:08:38 mircea_popescu: this was true then.

03:08:47 mircea_popescu: today, if you're not doing that you're doing what, twitter ?

03:09:11 asciilifeform: the age of petrol-to-food (however long that lasts) cancelled only that particular aspect of the conservation law

03:09:15 asciilifeform: but not others.

03:09:38 mircea_popescu: lasts forever. the way they grow pot is the way we'llgrow food in short order.

03:09:49 asciilifeform: only if fix RuBisCo

03:09:53 mircea_popescu: no petrol involved at any point. straight uranium.

03:10:37 asciilifeform: sadly, more complicated. just the turbine lives and dies by plenty of petrol-based lube

03:10:42 mircea_popescu: used to be petrol -> corned beef.

03:10:48 mircea_popescu: moving on to uranium -> hfcs.

03:10:58 mircea_popescu: synthetic means, synthetic.

03:11:09 mircea_popescu: can start with dead babies, enough c in there.

03:11:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu like just about everybody else at this point is muttering 'fischer-tropsch'

03:11:35 asciilifeform: but this is one of those 'yes, possible' but 'no, no one is inventing this parachute and we're already thrown from window' affairs.

03:11:36 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:11:50 mircea_popescu: this aside, if you will.

03:11:56 asciilifeform: notice that it did not save germany, though it had every desire to live.

03:12:22 mircea_popescu: well sure, it didn't save franz josef either. wtf.

03:12:24 asciilifeform: but sure, aside. there is still such a thing as -ev on civilization scale

03:12:31 mircea_popescu: on civilisation scale, yes.

03:12:44 mircea_popescu: on "who is going to do X thing - nobody", no.

03:13:08 asciilifeform: when some resource that is ultimately finite (petro, selenium, shitanium whatever) is squandered faster than it can be recovered and various things 'have come to expect' and begin to tear apart.

03:13:20 mircea_popescu: that was broadly my point, that the infantile "usg closes down so we're closing this park, and you'll be sorry!11" dies right here.

03:13:25 mircea_popescu: there WILL be alternative.

03:13:29 asciilifeform: and folks usually begin and end the discussion with minerals

03:13:41 asciilifeform: whereas i suspect that it is only a small part of the great shortages

03:13:42 mircea_popescu: the state, bulbously putrescent as it is, does not get to propose the false dichotomy - "us or nothing"

03:14:19 asciilifeform: notice i mentioned su likewise

03:14:25 mircea_popescu: whosoever.

03:14:41 mircea_popescu: the soviets need stalin like i need my nail clippings.

03:14:53 asciilifeform: hypothesis, roughly, that vlsi might turn out to be yet another very expensive religious ritual

03:14:57 asciilifeform: like the easter island statues.

03:15:11 mircea_popescu: fortunately there's very little actual matter consumed in vlsi.

03:15:25 asciilifeform: well, and that minerals are not even half of the problem.

03:16:02 mircea_popescu: i am somehow unconcerned.

03:16:03 asciilifeform: oh hey.

03:16:07 mircea_popescu: maybe my clueless side.

03:16:49 asciilifeform: said the fella who sweats blood on account of misbehaving computers.

03:16:56 asciilifeform: with the lot of us.

03:17:10 mircea_popescu: heh i guess huh

03:17:31 mircea_popescu: i mostly sweat elaborate curse words.

03:18:33 decimation: I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz. I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin. Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining. God bless all of you.

03:19:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78550 @ 0.00058464 = 45.9235 BTC [-]

03:20:03 mircea_popescu: "I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customers got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're re

03:20:04 mircea_popescu: sponsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. "

03:20:05 mircea_popescu: see ?

03:21:11 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228865 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228867 <<< mod6's guide was pretty straight forward when i used it to install gentoo, fell short on foundation's bitcoin though :\

03:21:11 assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:40:09; n6: How would someone get gentoo installed without this level of support?

03:21:11 assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:40:37; trinque: I think the lesson here is that at least with current materials, they can't

03:22:00 trinque: was by no means a slight against mod6

03:22:32 trinque: but an observation that one has to really reach back to remember what it's like to not even know how to describe what you're not understanding

03:22:43 cazalla: trinque, wasn't implying that, more that if i could do it then probably anyone else here can do the same

03:23:13 trinque: maybe so; the guy kinda diverged from the guide, but then that was because he didn't know what EFI vs BIOS was

03:24:39 cazalla: ah fair enough, no EFI trip wire here

03:27:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229784 << this is only a problem of resource distribution. yes, in a world where for incomprehensible reasons every unit of plancton gets disposable money, you get britney spears and reddit.

03:27:00 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:28:04; asciilifeform: summary: nobody knows how to make selling computers +ev without the millions-of-planktonous-idiots market being involved somehow

03:27:10 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it seems very improbable that arrangement will survive bitcoin.

03:27:47 mircea_popescu: chiefly for the reason discussed earlier. there is literally nothing most people can do that's worth paying btc for.

03:28:03 mircea_popescu: ie, "$lice of all value that will ever exist"

03:28:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229807 << you'll have to explain how you measure the V.

03:28:58 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:32:20; asciilifeform: just to add to the already forming lsd trip in this thread: i'm not personally convinced that ic production HAS EVER BEEN +EV

03:31:55 mircea_popescu: there is a directly obvious place where this is true. the way i approach a problem ? i have someone do it by hand. after enough of this, i have someone else automatize the easy to automatize parts. it grows from there.

03:32:46 mircea_popescu: the way "computer expert" approaches a problem ? first, he sits around imagining a problem that might be. then he comes up with the most theoretically-lovable way to solve a general problem three steps removed from what he imagined. then he proceeds to fail to implement a solution that mostly works.

03:33:04 mircea_popescu: time he spent = 10 to 100x time he saved, not to mention he saves time that's not worth saving in the first place.

03:33:08 mircea_popescu: this, yes, patently -EV.

03:33:29 mircea_popescu: but this does not speak about the activity of computing, or automating, or process design. it merely speaks of the idiot in question, and his tribe.

03:33:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.0005912 = 13.6567 BTC [+]

03:34:01 mircea_popescu: "all i did all week was write a program to save me one keystroke per month - INCREASE WORKEFICIENCY!1"

03:40:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229875 << this is pointedly NOT what -ev means.

03:40:46 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:30:40; asciilifeform: perhaps herbert's 'mentats', l0l

03:41:34 mircea_popescu: dude he went away just as it was getting interesting.

03:45:17 asciilifeform: back, had to put some food in

03:45:23 mircea_popescu: aha

03:45:28 mircea_popescu: so set out this thing again ?

03:45:38 asciilifeform: vlsi as man-in-space

03:45:44 asciilifeform: was the rough of it

03:46:44 mircea_popescu: but looky : man in space is -ev in the sense that if you make a bill of the required materials, and then divide the stores by that, you come to a number that's < world pop.

03:46:51 mircea_popescu: this is all. it just says "you can't send everyone"

03:47:01 mircea_popescu: it does not say "sending 5, or 50 or 500 is "-ev""

03:47:05 mircea_popescu: because ev is not defined.

03:47:34 asciilifeform: the notion i was trying to get at is that presently existing units were financed on 100% 'jam tomorrow'

03:47:37 asciilifeform: like bitcoin asics.

03:47:47 mircea_popescu: you were financed the same way

03:47:49 asciilifeform: i.e. that ~all~ asics are quite like bitcoin asics in that respect

03:47:52 mircea_popescu: your parents decided to have a baby.

03:47:54 mircea_popescu: what was that ?

03:47:56 asciilifeform: aha but i'm cheaper.

03:48:01 mircea_popescu: in what numbers ?

03:48:47 asciilifeform: in just about any numbers one cares to pick. whether in minerals, or in joules, or in time of scarce experts tied up

03:49:20 mircea_popescu: not so. average cost per kid over 1-18 is about 500k atm. that makes the stable cost quadrillions. computers don't cost that much.

03:49:39 asciilifeform: 500k in what, usg uni tuition ? l0l

03:49:49 mircea_popescu: everything. starting with hiring the mother.

03:50:13 asciilifeform: i had this whole 'trip' while holding a ru z80 in my hands and wondering why there is no more where it came from

03:50:21 asciilifeform: if making such things is 'good business'

03:50:35 mircea_popescu: 2.5k calories a day * 365 * 20 is a decent chunk oif change even in hfcs terms

03:50:44 asciilifeform: and then realized that virtually every tech entity of that period, is either dead or usgized

03:50:55 asciilifeform: and came into existence via very questionable finance

03:51:00 mircea_popescu: so ?

03:51:51 asciilifeform: so perhaps computer can exist in the future of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230074 -- but only like an 18th c. church organ

03:51:51 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 03:27:10; mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it seems very improbable that arrangement will survive bitcoin.

03:52:01 asciilifeform: something which is a ~place~

03:52:13 asciilifeform: near a locus of earthly power

03:52:28 asciilifeform: because all of our machinery ~today~ was financed via 'britney'

03:52:55 asciilifeform: no britney? welcome to 'univac', $1m half-z80.

03:53:24 asciilifeform: (or, for completeness, some yet-entirely-undiscovered 'third road' where we make'em out of belly button lint)

03:53:55 mircea_popescu: ftr, hfcs is 1-200 per 640 lb barrel. it's like sugar, about 4k calories per kg. so your kid costs

03:54:22 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2500 * 365 * 20 / 4000 * .5

03:54:23 gribble: 2281.25

03:54:29 mircea_popescu: about 2.5k if it were a pig.

03:54:36 asciilifeform: there we go.

03:54:50 mircea_popescu: still think 500k is an exaggeration ?

03:54:54 asciilifeform: about same as small computer.

03:55:25 mircea_popescu: the point of comparison weould be "pile of scrap metal in the approximate shape of a desktop"

03:56:13 asciilifeform: at any rate, this edges into the territory of converting meters to litres and 'comparing the soft to the warm'

03:56:19 mircea_popescu: okay.

03:56:28 mircea_popescu: let's get back to your original idea. can you state it ?

03:56:51 asciilifeform: my real question was 'is it possible to finance a computer without duping millions that they Must Upgrade Because (tm) ' ?

03:56:55 mircea_popescu: (the only solution to the soft-warm comparison is a decent pair of tits)

03:57:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends. do you live in a world where most capital is uselessly distributed to idiots ?

03:57:43 asciilifeform: hence my mental excursion in this gedankenexperiment to the world of j.s. bach and his organs

03:58:05 asciilifeform: no britney there, no. but was it 'in the hands of idiots' still ?

03:58:10 mircea_popescu: if people get "salaries" for doing "work" which have to then be collected back from them - the mcdonald, walmart, windows and britney spears are unavoidable.

03:58:19 asciilifeform: aha

03:58:22 mircea_popescu: otherwise, none of these exist.

03:58:54 mircea_popescu: so your choice of whether you want a good computer or not reduces to whether you're willing to live without the mass delusion of you know, "democracy" or w/e it's called.

03:58:58 asciilifeform: and here is where we meet up with vlsi boojum: you can't do vlsi economically if there is room for six computers total.

03:59:10 asciilifeform: it ends up making space tourism look cheap.

03:59:11 mircea_popescu: don't confuse things.

03:59:20 mircea_popescu: the fact that there's room for six CAPITAL ALLOCATORS total

03:59:27 mircea_popescu: does not mean there's room for any specified number of computers.

03:59:31 asciilifeform: who then issue, like cannon?

03:59:31 mircea_popescu: a million, zero, undefined.

03:59:33 asciilifeform: i can see it.

03:59:45 mircea_popescu: "this is the sword we use"

03:59:47 mircea_popescu: "why ?"

03:59:49 mircea_popescu: "shoot him."

04:00:04 asciilifeform: ultima ratio regum (tm) !!

04:00:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94328 @ 0.00060731 = 57.2863 BTC [+] {4}

04:00:32 asciilifeform: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Ultima_Ratio_Regum_Cannon.jpg << him

04:00:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsrSmf )

04:00:34 mircea_popescu: yes there may be a why somewhere. maybe there is. maybe they jacked off and spludged in that shape. none of your busienss in any case.

04:00:57 asciilifeform: something quite like that.

04:01:06 mircea_popescu: consider the problem of cannon in ww2. obviously, an -ev machinery IN OUR CURRENT PEACETIME TERMS.

04:01:08 asciilifeform: but how do we end up ^there from _here

04:01:12 mircea_popescu: at the time, its ev was UNDEFINED

04:01:17 mircea_popescu: there were like 6 capital allocators

04:01:20 mircea_popescu: did this mean 6 cannons total ?

04:01:29 asciilifeform: this is why i said 'like cannon' aha.

04:03:09 mircea_popescu: not even necessarily a likely or in any case the only stable solution

04:03:27 asciilifeform: was trying to think of some others

04:03:29 mircea_popescu: but the ev consideration, and the capital allocation consideration, and operations are three points forming a triangle

04:03:37 asciilifeform: on the off chance that one of them happens to be engineerable

04:03:51 mircea_popescu: the obvious one is the communitard "cooperative" thing socialists always rave about.

04:03:55 mircea_popescu: "we've surpassed money"

04:04:06 asciilifeform: where is the 'coop' z80 ?

04:04:10 mircea_popescu: like you know, the one in the gand story

04:04:14 mircea_popescu: well of fucking course it doesn't work

04:04:24 mircea_popescu: (but that's because it never was given a chance. you know, like al's thing)

04:04:26 asciilifeform: it tried, i have a bag of'em here

04:04:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00058431 = 5.3757 BTC [-] {3}

04:04:31 asciilifeform: but that was that

04:05:49 mircea_popescu: and i'm entirely at a loss as to why you'd want to engineer THAT

04:05:56 asciilifeform: (it is interesting that - afaik - no detailed production masks, notes, etc. from sov. clones of dec, zilog, etc. ever surfaced publicly during the collapse. quite possibly this is pure misfortune, the net did not arrive in time to catch'em, and/or no one digitized the materials)

04:06:07 mircea_popescu: "my faucet leaks so i wonder how this gravity curvature of spacetime thing could be made to work to my benefit"

04:06:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if only that were the answer.

04:06:32 asciilifeform: for the mundane reason of wanting own si.

04:06:32 mircea_popescu: the true answer is much more sad than that.

04:06:43 asciilifeform: ^ that nobody gave half a fuck ?

04:06:45 *: asciilifeform knew that

04:06:50 mircea_popescu: so you don't want to own a faucet, instead prefer to alter schroedinger with your mind ?

04:06:51 mircea_popescu: wtf.

04:06:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, not that.

04:07:07 mircea_popescu: you know what also was lost, exactly the same way, for exactly the same reason ?

04:07:17 mircea_popescu: the detailed procedures of industry, as employed in the 1800s.

04:07:22 asciilifeform: aha

04:07:25 asciilifeform: the top hats!

04:07:25 mircea_popescu: like, how they ACTUALLY made the fucking looms work.

04:07:30 *: asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu's article re: same

04:07:34 mircea_popescu: the reason is... because... not having the much hated IP at the time,

04:07:42 mircea_popescu: there was 0 incentive for anyone wit ha clue to share.

04:07:47 mircea_popescu: so they took it to grave and fuck you.

04:08:00 asciilifeform: like dks and the lisp machine blueprints, aha

04:08:20 asciilifeform: (i confronted him personally, at his house, he said 'stuff it')

04:08:46 asciilifeform: and 'ip'

04:09:18 mircea_popescu: myeah.

04:09:31 mircea_popescu: so you know... that's the large thing here. unless we manage to make the wot actually work for this purpose

04:09:37 mircea_popescu: we're in so many words proper fucked

04:09:43 mircea_popescu: because ip is going away, there's no fixing it.

04:09:45 asciilifeform: sorta what i was getting at

04:09:49 mircea_popescu: and without it, we're back to 1800

04:09:51 asciilifeform: (among other)

04:09:57 asciilifeform: 1300.

04:10:04 mircea_popescu: somewhere between maybe.

04:10:18 asciilifeform: 1300+kalash

04:10:23 asciilifeform: (for a spell anyway)

04:11:18 mircea_popescu: the only good news is that wot can in fact owrk for this puropose. it solves it completely.

04:11:25 mircea_popescu: whether it catches tho...

04:11:39 mircea_popescu: but there's worse flags to die under, so there's that.

04:11:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in somewhat related nyooz, i've been experimenting with what for now i call 'v' - a very dumb 'versioner' that i've been writing, which eats solely 0) pgp keys 1) patches 2) signatures for same, many-to-many mapping of (2) to (1)

04:12:05 asciilifeform: and walks graphz

04:12:19 asciilifeform: once actually useful, will post draft.

04:12:27 mircea_popescu: cool

04:13:57 asciilifeform: (i don't grasp the need for notions like 'check in' or 'check out', etc. one instead throws patches and sigs in a pot, and then proceeds to ask for graph, and then select a leaf on said graph - and get a src tree out.)

04:14:15 mircea_popescu: to celebrate, a) http://36.media.tumblr.com/553cb4545aac61708c7ee0e5ed3731b4/tumblr_n4zbzvKHQ31sn0ybqo2_1280.jpg b) http://41.media.tumblr.com/c54ca2d22753e155762833ed0a90fab5/tumblr_n4zbzvKHQ31sn0ybqo1_1280.jpg c) http://40.media.tumblr.com/fba60944df78dda1dda52e448775a54e/tumblr_n4zbzvKHQ31sn0ybqo4_1280.jpg

04:14:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IssZ5B )

04:14:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IssXdH )

04:14:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IssZlU )

04:14:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this sounds like it.

04:15:24 asciilifeform: programmatizing gpg is a pain, though.

04:15:33 asciilifeform: (sorta like gcc..)

04:15:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00061555 = 23.6679 BTC [+] {5}

04:16:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229902 << i bet you that if you ship the suit and the si, hf etc to danielpbarron he's washing it.

04:16:11 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:41:29; asciilifeform: find me a fella willing to wear a gas suit and wash si in HF all day, every day, 'for the good of' something-or-other.

04:16:46 asciilifeform: or i wash it.

04:16:50 asciilifeform: which makes 2 washers.

04:17:27 mircea_popescu: two washers coming right up : http://41.media.tumblr.com/0f2114f3bb7da3c41291fd29457bf6c4/tumblr_nc1i5hod2J1sitnino1_1280.jpg

04:17:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IstjB6 )

04:17:50 asciilifeform: mm neat.

04:21:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230197 << there is a famous and quasi-mythological story about ww2 factory where ппш-41 ( http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/11/112064/1619943-ars57_6.jpg ) was made.

04:21:29 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 04:07:42; mircea_popescu: there was 0 incentive for anyone wit ha clue to share.

04:21:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXmF99 )

04:21:41 asciilifeform: involved workmen pissing in barrels to anneal

04:21:57 asciilifeform: and a serious lapse in quality when somehow the staffing rotated and this was not done

04:22:29 *: asciilifeform believes that this tale, if has any factual ground, is a corruption of some other thing that was actually physically plausible

04:23:52 asciilifeform: the basic root of the matter is that 'industrial production' is an abstraction ~on top of~ craftsmanship in the same way as the digital computer is an abstraction on top of analogue solid-state physics

04:24:05 asciilifeform: the abstraction is imperfect and necessarily leaks.

04:24:57 mircea_popescu: this is a recurring theme throughout the history of agrarian civilisations trying to internalise the industrial revolution - chiefly by putting a bit of their flesh i nthe machine. the jews supposedly making bread out of goy boy blood, the wine made by stepping on grapes, the sovet factory that ceased to work once they forbade huyspeak...

04:25:05 mircea_popescu: it's a thing.

04:25:12 asciilifeform: the last time this surfaced in a major way was when cnc lathe & mill were introduced, in the '50s (paper tape!) and engineers took to the notion that machinists could now be dispensed with

04:25:39 asciilifeform: this led to 'produce scrap metal at very high speed' (tm)

04:25:44 mircea_popescu: lol

04:28:20 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229411 <<< seems after about age 5 the wind changed and hillary has remained ugly ever since

04:28:20 assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 18:06:20; BingoBoingo: https://cryptome.org/2015-info/trump-hair/trump-hair-history.htm vs. https://cryptome.org/2015-info/hillary-hair/hillary-hair-history.htm

04:29:21 mircea_popescu: no way, hilary was a hottie in her teens and 20s

04:30:16 asciilifeform: !up benkay

04:30:21 asciilifeform: ^ divorced ?

04:30:27 benkay: no no

04:30:29 cazalla: mircea_popescu, please to be providing example as i'm not seeing it

04:33:36 mircea_popescu: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/30/article-2333538-1A12D171000005DC-329_634x921.jpg sorta thing

04:33:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Isuv7K )

04:33:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00059264 = 6.3412 BTC [-]

04:34:06 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/56a43e8b2097da536f106013219545ce/tumblr_nb8la5sWsj1tek4uno1_1280.jpg whatever.

04:34:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsuznL )

04:34:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56700 @ 0.00061557 = 34.9028 BTC [+] {4}

04:35:53 asciilifeform: 'where did all the ' txspam 'go, long time paaaassing, where did the' txspam 'go, long time ago...'

04:36:13 asciilifeform: where have all the phat blox gone, they're all under 300K every one...

04:36:15 ben_vulpes: 'when will they ever learn?'

04:36:24 asciilifeform: oooh when will they eeever learn

04:36:40 ben_vulpes: where have all the core devs gone

04:36:47 ben_vulpes: long time paaaaassing

04:36:54 mircea_popescu: heh

04:36:57 cazalla: mircea_popescu, one good, lucky, weird angled shot or in other words the exception that proves the rule, this ain't hot for a college chick

04:37:28 asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/dakami/status/629822315837009920?s=09 << from the l0lfarms

04:37:36 mircea_popescu: cazalla you know the comparison is drastically unfair because fucktarded feminists of the 70s had nfi they are required to take nude cuntshots in bathroom or wear makeup

04:37:50 asciilifeform: ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3g7bpa/brainwallet_shut_down_permanently_due_to << re same )

04:38:55 mircea_popescu: why would brain wallets want or need a derpy website ?

04:39:02 asciilifeform: why did 'truecrypt' ?

04:39:16 asciilifeform: (which went to the same garbage collector in the sky, in approximately the same way)

04:40:03 cazalla: a search of "1970s college chicks" turns up http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706084/The-yearbook-never-An-arts-college-1970s-hair-big-parties-raucous-nudity-welcomed-VERY-liberal.html

04:40:04 assbot: 'The yearbook we never had!' An arts college in the 1970s where the hair was big, the parties raucous and nudity welcomed among the VERY liberal | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1Isv8hq )

04:40:12 ben_vulpes: "What if someone was using that site and now needs to be able to use the phrase that memorized to get back the keys???

04:40:13 ben_vulpes: Yes, I have an offline backup but say they did not? How can they find the equivalent thing to get back their keys???"

04:40:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you think that no one is ~that~ retarded... think again

04:41:08 asciilifeform: but whole sheband is probably smoke for something else entirely.

04:41:10 mircea_popescu: cazalla she was with the stupid girls, which is how she ended up in the shitter.

04:41:10 ben_vulpes: just a tiny lolfruit i picked for the lolfarm

04:41:13 asciilifeform: *shebang

04:41:19 ben_vulpes: sheband lol

04:41:24 mircea_popescu: think bitcoin chamber of commerce derpette, 40 years ago.

04:41:37 ben_vulpes: oh yeah what's miss boring up to these days?

04:41:37 asciilifeform: 'Ryan is also the author of brainflayer, a utility that attempts to find a guided brute force solution to brainwallet addresses.'

04:41:41 asciilifeform: ^ somebody reads #b-a logz

04:41:46 asciilifeform: re: 'coke machine'

04:42:38 ben_vulpes: http://www.neverobsolete.com/girls/this-weeks-boring-pics-49-photos/

04:42:41 assbot: This Week’s Boring Pics [49 photos] – Never Obsolete ... ( http://bit.ly/1Isvjt9 )

04:43:08 ben_vulpes: http://digitalchamber.org/ << good ol con con

04:43:09 assbot: Chamber of Digital Commerce - Chamber of Digital Commerce ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsvkNL )

04:44:32 asciilifeform: boring << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-07-2015#1196931

04:44:32 assbot: Logged on 10-07-2015 19:30:37; ascii_field: where i live - they're monosyllabic. mental age permanently 12 or so

04:44:36 mircea_popescu: cazalla seems about as unhot as possible.

04:45:06 mircea_popescu: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/25/article-2706084-1FFCC19200000578-982_964x637.jpg < srsly ?!

04:45:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXpfMu )

04:46:00 cazalla: well shit that slipped by my radar, i was looking more at the painted ass http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/25/article-2706084-1FFB770600000578-256_964x643.jpg

04:46:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXpkzO )

04:46:38 cazalla: gotta be better than hillary anyway

04:47:09 *: mircea_popescu goes to nekkid parties / occsionally fucks a slavegirl in public but they never to date looked this shitty.

04:47:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00061557 = 39.4273 BTC [+] {3}

04:47:22 *: ben_vulpes has nfi why hillary's past looks matter

04:47:33 ben_vulpes: she's as wrinkly as any other senator now

04:47:41 ben_vulpes: death comes for us all

04:47:50 mircea_popescu: DEATH! COMES FOR YOU ALL!

04:47:53 asciilifeform: why does the Al in bauxite matter ?

04:47:56 mircea_popescu: that was a great voiceover

04:48:01 asciilifeform: there isn't much else useful in ol'clitler

04:48:04 asciilifeform: than these photos.

04:48:48 mircea_popescu: keeping it clean, http://40.media.tumblr.com/26c6ff72d59f5d496e80ab828277284e/tumblr_n76h71CWWP1s8h5eho1_1280.jpg

04:48:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsvOUd )

04:49:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-03-2015#1040717 << see also.

04:49:07 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 05:03:39; asciilifeform: to borrow dan mocsny's device, 'like the ruins of a great city, you can tell the woman was once beautiful - but you wouldn't want to move into parthenon'

04:50:03 mircea_popescu: anyone recalls the crazed dwarf from baldur's gate ?

04:50:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that one practically ~screams~ 'my brain is permanently 12 y.o.'

04:50:37 mircea_popescu: you're not well advised to judge women by their looks.

04:50:48 asciilifeform: or city by ruins

04:50:57 asciilifeform: but if that's all the archaeologist has - judge, judge.

04:51:33 mircea_popescu: it's worse than that. your idea of looks is mostly build on interpreting clues, and appearing harmless is a survival technique.

04:51:37 mircea_popescu: the word for this is moe.

04:51:47 asciilifeform: and yes, 'don't judge the corkscrew, it could really be a clavichord'

04:51:53 asciilifeform: but i see corkscrew, dammit

04:52:02 asciilifeform: moe ?

04:52:05 mircea_popescu: moe.

04:52:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00061054 = 6.1054 BTC [-]

04:54:13 asciilifeform: ;;ud moe

04:54:13 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moe | The new meaning of 'moe' is entirely caught up in issues surrounding hobbies and taste. Specifically, 'moe' means be attracted to a specific character or its ...

04:54:46 *: asciilifeform did guess that jp

04:55:22 asciilifeform: 'The picture becomes clearer when we hear the frequent use of 'moe' referring to specific elements or characteristics, such as 'weak girl moe,' 'young lady moe,' and 'glasses moe.' The meaning of 'glasses moe' refers to a taste that is taken with a character who wears glasses; furthermore, this taste fetishizes the feature itself of glasses-wearing. In this case, glasses are the 'moe' element.'

04:55:37 asciilifeform: how does this differ from ANSI standard 'fetish' ?

04:55:49 asciilifeform: is my 'meta' stack not deep enough to grok this, or what

04:56:15 ben_vulpes: phf has a moe

04:56:17 asciilifeform: !up phf_mobile

04:56:27 phf_mobile: thanks

04:56:35 ben_vulpes: evening. ca va?

04:56:48 asciilifeform: 'Moe is when your heart gets a boner.' << l0lz

04:57:02 ben_vulpes: 'oneitis'

04:57:21 ben_vulpes: aka 'have not yet slept with enough girls to have sampled the distribution'

04:58:02 phf_mobile: got a eulora mac built to a point of "brew install eulora"/"brew linkapps --local eulora"

04:58:24 ben_vulpes: no shit

04:59:04 phf_mobile: this is like a personal dragon slaying quest

04:59:22 ben_vulpes: eulora quest

04:59:24 ben_vulpes: on mac

04:59:30 ben_vulpes: subquest of bitcoin quest

05:00:15 asciilifeform: kvest

05:00:35 asciilifeform: !up benkay

05:00:44 asciilifeform: splitz personality ftw

05:00:52 asciilifeform: speak to us, benkay !

05:01:22 mircea_popescu: wordpress file uploader removes all dots except the last one

05:01:28 mircea_popescu: so .tar.gz -> tar.gz

05:01:30 mircea_popescu: motherfuckers.

05:01:34 mircea_popescu: who the fuck comes up with this shit

05:01:43 asciilifeform: ~somebody USED the uploader ?!!~

05:02:00 mircea_popescu: yea

05:02:05 *: asciilifeform fl00red

05:02:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.0006136 = 14.0208 BTC [+]

05:03:01 *: benkay shan't

05:03:17 benkay: and does it silently drop xml files too, mircea_popescu ?

05:03:52 mircea_popescu: no, you gotta download that service separately.

05:04:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in principle stabbing and raping are the same activity. something modulates the behaviour so that you mostly stab does and mostly rape moes.

05:04:42 mircea_popescu: that something is called moe.

05:04:53 mircea_popescu: !up n6

05:09:55 n6: I'm back again still trying to do http://fraudsters.com/2015/open-callgraph-for-therealbitcoin-in-svg-format/#comment-114958 I got gentoo working last night with the help of trinque and everyone else in here taking HOURS to help me. But today I stepped on the ethernet cable, and broke the modem in such a way cables won't work. I have a Edimax EW-7811Un but no clue how to go about getting this working with just a base install. and no internet.

05:09:56 assbot: [OPEN] Callgraph for therealbitcoin, in SVG format. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXrqQ2 )

05:10:26 mircea_popescu: ahahaha i like this guy

05:11:13 ben_vulpes: omg the trials of n6

05:11:16 n6: Hard not to come back to finish after all the support given to me so far seems rude?

05:11:22 ben_vulpes: dood you know the reward already went out for that thing right?

05:11:24 asciilifeform: http://ithic.com/52-94-large/edimax-ew-7811un-150mbps-wireless-ieee80211b-g-n-nano-usb-adapter.jpg << neato

05:11:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXrEGR )

05:11:34 n6: It was never about the reward

05:11:51 ben_vulpes: that's the attitude

05:13:37 n6: Also I formated my usb drive with livecd, to watch Female Trouble (1974), so please no more reinstalls.

05:14:01 phf_mobile: can't help it, the girl can't help it

05:16:58 asciilifeform: !up Bingo_VACAY

05:17:07 Bingo_VACAY: Trap

05:18:11 n6: both lspci and lsusb arent working i'm at loss for where to even look. (base install)

05:18:59 n6: I guess only need lsusb but it's not here.

05:21:48 mircea_popescu: n6 how did you pick that one ?!

05:22:15 n6: Amazon gave it to go with a beagleboard then it didnt work at all.

05:22:27 mircea_popescu: the movie i mean

05:22:57 n6: oh your great blog post still working on getting my key sitatution fixed to rate you for such good work.

05:22:57 asciilifeform: n6: didja power that thing via microusb? needs >500mA if you actually use gadgets like this with that thing

05:22:59 mircea_popescu: phf_mobile i thought os/x just worked

05:23:11 asciilifeform: n6: plug the 5v cylindrical jack in

05:23:50 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: omg u troll!

05:23:51 mircea_popescu: waters fucking owes me!

05:24:05 n6: asciilifeform: I'm not worried about the bone right now, only this graph. would be a shame if my 19 hours of gentoo installing came to nothing.

05:24:39 Bingo_VACAY: Future du hast

05:24:43 *: asciilifeform shudders at the thought of 19 ~actual keyboard hours~ somehow applied to gentoo

05:25:52 n6: Not all keyboard hours a lot of time was spent trying to recompile on the free aws tier about 9

05:26:12 n6: before finding out about the real bitcoin guide.

05:26:18 asciilifeform: wai wat...

05:26:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform every damned time.

05:26:20 asciilifeform: aws!!!

05:26:23 ben_vulpes: wait you tried to build a gentoo on aws?

05:26:25 n6: ben_vulpes got me

05:26:35 ben_vulpes: the whole point is to not fuck with gentoo and just use something prebuilt

05:26:38 asciilifeform: that's like cooking a fine meal of rare sturgeon in a public toilet as cauldron

05:26:50 ben_vulpes: you have too much respect for your tools

05:26:54 asciilifeform: !up phf_mobile

05:26:56 ben_vulpes: i have

05:26:58 ben_vulpes: el minimo

05:27:02 mircea_popescu: hahaha

05:27:38 ben_vulpes: look guy wants to build bitcoin, go do it over there in the gentoo virtualization sandbox that Ju5t Werkz!

05:27:39 n6: Tried to rebuild the kernal (I think) not really sure no understanding

05:27:47 ben_vulpes: gentoo quest

05:27:54 ben_vulpes: understanding is an quixotic illusion

05:28:01 asciilifeform: could try rotor

05:28:37 n6: asciilifeform command not found. this is just a base install

05:28:45 asciilifeform: wai wat

05:28:47 asciilifeform: what command

05:28:49 ben_vulpes: $ rotor

05:28:55 n6: did I miss something?

05:28:56 *: asciilifeform head-desks

05:29:02 ben_vulpes: WILKOMMEN

05:29:16 asciilifeform: n6: >> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000133.html << him

05:29:17 assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1InQxW4 )

05:29:25 ben_vulpes: dja know that i wrote assembly manuals for line operators, asciilifeform?

05:29:36 asciilifeform: can picture this.

05:29:56 ben_vulpes: designed things so as to prevent inquisitive operators from mutilating themselves?

05:30:04 ben_vulpes: i believe that i've mentioned this before

05:30:15 ben_vulpes: instructions, man.

05:30:24 ben_vulpes: almost not worthwhile.

05:30:40 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes failed! just look at us. we're mutilated, myootilaited!

05:30:59 asciilifeform: !up benkay

05:31:08 n6: asciilifeform: what does DETERMINISTIC mean here?

05:31:09 asciilifeform: y'know it's true, benkay

05:31:20 asciilifeform: n6: means you get same result regardless of phase of the moon

05:31:33 asciilifeform: or whether pissed in the barrel of your gentoo when it was annealing

05:31:35 asciilifeform: or not

05:31:38 asciilifeform: etc.

05:31:57 n6: I still don't understand, sorry.

05:32:11 mircea_popescu: n6 you understand what a static build is ?

05:32:15 n6: no

05:32:29 mircea_popescu: your question can not be answered at this time o.O

05:32:43 n6: let me do some reading and come back.

05:32:57 asciilifeform: ^ the right idea.

05:33:02 phf_mobile: this is like, from first principles

05:34:26 *: mircea_popescu has formally determined that the "what does deterministic mean here" inquiry can not be answered if "do you understand what static build is" comes out false.

05:34:38 mircea_popescu: i'm curious if anyone can come up with a (valid) answer.

05:34:46 ben_vulpes: in entirely unrelated news, the lil boy now kicks back when i poke at him

05:34:48 *: asciilifeform tried

05:34:58 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes don't poke TOO much

05:35:02 mircea_popescu: !up n6

05:35:03 asciilifeform: !up n6

05:35:09 mircea_popescu: slowpoke

05:35:30 *: ben_vulpes wonders what poking too much would look like

05:35:31 ben_vulpes: like

05:35:34 ben_vulpes: no sex?

05:35:35 n6: thanks guys got a wikipedia understand(not much) but it means compiled like apt-get packages?

05:35:49 ben_vulpes: n6: look up "dynamic linking"

05:35:53 mircea_popescu: we need a replacement wikipedia

05:35:54 ben_vulpes: also - what's your background?

05:36:52 n6: ben_vulpes: just a long time casual pc user, ubtuntu copy past guides no real understanding of anything that seems to matter when deal with real problems.

05:37:06 n6: *dealing

05:37:27 ben_vulpes: aha

05:37:38 ben_vulpes: well, 'grats on getting off windows

05:37:46 ben_vulpes: welcome to a whole new life of misery

05:37:46 n6: I started this graph thing on os x and it couldn't do the job. then ben_vulpes told me to try AWS, but you can't just give someone a spaceship they have to earn it.

05:38:01 ben_vulpes: dude you're not flying spaceships right now

05:38:14 asciilifeform: more of an 'ohka'

05:38:27 ben_vulpes: do you want to do gentoo quest or do you want to play around with the callgraph generator?

05:38:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'ohka'?

05:38:52 ben_vulpes: ahaha

05:39:02 asciilifeform: http://orig00.deviantart.net/63f3/f/2013/212/6/c/mxy7_ohka_kamikaze_rocket_paper_model_by_rocketmantan-d6g1w2i.png << her

05:39:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuMj7x )

05:39:23 ben_vulpes: aka 'baka'

05:39:36 asciilifeform: it.

05:39:42 ben_vulpes: a very funny name for gaijin to cook up.

05:40:45 asciilifeform: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/613964-Ohka-as-Flyable-Forums << sim folks lovingly archaeologizing

05:40:46 assbot: Ohka as Flyable | Forums ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuMqzU )

05:42:26 mircea_popescu: wait we now agree gentoo = kamikaze plane ?

05:42:32 asciilifeform: http://planemania.blogspot.com/2012/02/yokosuka-mxy7-ohka.html << linked for the sheer bowel-massaging power of the mistranslationz

05:42:33 assbot: Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuMwHU )

05:42:37 mircea_popescu: celebroat ! http://40.media.tumblr.com/20833081f7499d89abc7eb71e37d74e4/tumblr_nbcoe4yEu61tttg72o1_1280.jpg

05:42:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuMwHZ )

05:43:36 cazalla: ben_vulpes, did you end up going ahead with co-sleeping?

05:45:33 ben_vulpes: kiddo's still in-utero, cazalla

05:45:58 asciilifeform: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ohka-Popular-Mechanics-graphic.jpg << from american 'popular mech.' and hey, whats the pr0blem, fastest machine of its time !

05:45:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuMNug )

05:46:02 asciilifeform: and simplest

05:46:02 ben_vulpes: probably will for funsies, but it turns out the plan is to have a basinette next to the bed

05:46:42 ben_vulpes: girl on the left looks startlingly familiar

05:46:42 cazalla: was it someone else that mentioned it? getting confused with all these soon to be or recently arrived babies

05:47:10 ben_vulpes: and what the hell are they drinking

05:47:11 n6: ben_vulpes: sorry reading I want it all

05:47:24 ben_vulpes: cazalla: i did mention cosleeping yeah

05:47:41 ben_vulpes: but those to whom that work has been delegated have other probably more sane ideas

05:48:06 ben_vulpes: as mp said one time "mothers care too much and fathers don't know wtf's in the box"

05:48:29 mircea_popescu: incidentally, the ohka was perhaps the least successful war machine of all time.

05:48:45 mircea_popescu: what was it, 20 carrier planes sent, 1 returned, virtually no hits ?

05:49:00 ben_vulpes: n6: good way to make minimal progress on everything

05:49:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most ended in the sea

05:49:11 asciilifeform: (carried on defenseless bomber)

05:49:35 asciilifeform: sources disagree on how many actually hit anything

05:49:35 mircea_popescu: wasn't one that punched through and fell past the ship ?

05:49:45 mircea_popescu: and most of them really needed the pilot to be alive throughout, etc

05:49:46 asciilifeform: there are mentions of going right through and exploding on other side, aha

05:50:15 asciilifeform: which to me sounds like a workmanship problem with detonator

05:50:19 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230278 and reddit delivers within the hour https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3g7na6/serious_brainwalletorg_shutdown_and_now_i_am/

05:50:19 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 04:40:12; ben_vulpes: "What if someone was using that site and now needs to be able to use the phrase that memorized to get back the keys???

05:50:21 assbot: Serious: brainwallet.org shutdown and now I am wondering how to get keys back from the phrase? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1UuNbck )

05:51:34 ben_vulpes: *** Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) has quit: Excess Flood << hyu

05:53:10 ben_vulpes: anyways, good evening pete_dushenski

05:54:08 ben_vulpes: when's yours due?

05:54:09 pete_dushenski: howdy ben_vulpes

05:54:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00060762 = 3.1596 BTC [-]

05:54:23 pete_dushenski: 2 weeks ?

05:54:31 ben_vulpes: o wow

05:54:39 pete_dushenski: what is this #bitcoin-babies or something ?

05:54:44 ben_vulpes: doing anything wacky for the deploy?

05:54:50 mircea_popescu: lol

05:54:59 ben_vulpes: limit of everything as time goes on is babies

05:55:02 mircea_popescu: it;d better be very wacky for cult's sake.

05:55:17 pete_dushenski: o it is.

05:55:26 ben_vulpes: hottub in the snow?

05:55:29 pete_dushenski: at least as far as canuckian standards go

05:55:32 pete_dushenski: lol

05:55:40 mircea_popescu: having it in a tub full of jello shot ?

05:55:40 ben_vulpes: on a boat?

05:55:42 ben_vulpes: with a goat?

05:55:52 ben_vulpes: the midwife is a groat?

05:56:12 pete_dushenski: more like pools, midwives, doulas.

05:56:18 mircea_popescu: btw, i understand this midwife business if you live with your wife and the other girl sleeps in between you two,

05:56:23 mircea_popescu: but what if you have more than two womenz ?!

05:56:30 asciilifeform: then multiple stators

05:56:32 asciilifeform: elementarily.

05:56:43 mircea_popescu: are all of them midwives ?

05:57:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-04-2015#1085778

05:57:19 assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 03:22:33; asciilifeform: (if fella who turns, is 'rotor')

05:57:23 asciilifeform: ^ see also

05:57:25 mircea_popescu: seems more like quarterwive and threequarterwive or w/e the case may be

05:57:38 asciilifeform: depends on how many phase.

05:57:40 ben_vulpes: > mid wife

05:57:42 ben_vulpes: >.<

05:58:30 cazalla: my missus had an elective c-section, made the day somewhat of a non-event when compared to hollywood/tv births

05:58:50 mircea_popescu: not really great for fertility is it ?

05:58:52 ben_vulpes: what drove that decision?

05:59:47 cazalla: just asked.. "cause i'm not sitting around in pain for 10 hours"

06:00:07 ben_vulpes: o.O

06:00:14 ben_vulpes: if y'r in pain for 10 hours y'r doing it wrong

06:00:34 mircea_popescu: depends on the ass.

06:01:12 cazalla: mircea_popescu, doesn't affect my fertility last i checked :P

06:01:21 mircea_popescu: lol

06:01:31 asciilifeform: !up benkay

06:01:33 n6: Have lost the plot, how does all this help me with my wifi working?

06:01:34 cazalla: although hers? who knows, tried the past 2 months and it didn't take yet

06:01:38 asciilifeform: !up phf_mobile

06:01:52 phf_mobile: obligatory http://oglaf.com/son-of-kronar/

06:01:53 assbot: Son of Kronar page 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpj6N5 )

06:02:05 mircea_popescu: ahaha another oglaf fan ?

06:02:09 pete_dushenski: ;;seen decimation

06:02:09 gribble: decimation was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 43 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <decimation> I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz. I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin. Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining. God bless all of you.

06:02:33 pete_dushenski: well that's that, i guess.

06:02:38 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: lulzy, no? almost like poor fella confessed

06:02:56 asciilifeform: ergo was he a 'baron stierlitz', on our side!

06:03:09 ben_vulpes: much less protracted than the viragh episode

06:03:17 ben_vulpes: hi bobby! still reading logs?

06:03:18 pete_dushenski: does sound like a bit of a 'ya got me, pardner' moment

06:04:13 phf_mobile: i remember oglaf from when before they had rss feed. so i wrote one and hosted it on my machine. i still get ~~100 requests for now long missing file a day

06:04:19 pete_dushenski: cazalla: http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/06/la-serenissima-fender-flags-a-modest-proposal/#comment-25441

06:04:20 assbot: La Serenissima fender flags: a modest proposal | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpjpaN )

06:04:35 mircea_popescu: phf_mobile it's so popular here people do oglafbot by hand.

06:04:38 mircea_popescu: ;;seen oglafbot

06:04:38 gribble: oglafbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 10 hours, 25 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <oglafbot> http://oglaf.com/medallions/

06:04:58 asciilifeform: now if only 'sexy losers' were still running

06:05:06 asciilifeform: the ~other~ mega-comic

06:05:07 cazalla: pete_dushenski, do you mean for me to illustrate that S or actually draw that S into the logo?

06:05:28 phf_mobile: but i'm .. more .. then .. a .. man

06:05:44 pete_dushenski: cazalla: start with the easier one and work your way up

06:06:14 phf_mobile: different internet era

06:08:05 cazalla: pete_dushenski, well to be fair i already seen that image elsewhere

06:09:01 pete_dushenski: um, that's the point ?

06:09:18 cazalla: specifically https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0447/33/1413616113174.jpg so when i saw yours, first thought was that it was some jewish stockholm syndrome

06:09:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpjY49 )

06:09:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00059499 = 11.3643 BTC [-] {4}

06:09:38 pete_dushenski: what, you think i made that shit up ex nihilo ?

06:10:08 pete_dushenski: lol dude, that's the joke !

06:10:31 pete_dushenski: mebbe funny, probably not, but like i said, was just looking for an art project

06:10:38 cazalla: well you said maybe it was trolling so clearly it went over my head

06:11:14 phf_mobile: ben_vulpes: hey, if you have some time to try and build eulora, the following incantation should do it: brew tap homebrew/versions; brew tap pf/homebrew-eulora; brew install eulora; brew linkapps eulora

06:11:22 cazalla: but c'mon, adding a dash of red and deleting a line does not make it a design proposal

06:11:27 pete_dushenski: it's not like i'm taking this shit to get printed so i can cruise around downtown berlin at 200 kph with my ass out the window

06:11:43 pete_dushenski: fender flags bending in the breeze

06:11:56 mircea_popescu: phf_mobile he's in already.

06:12:04 phf_mobile: oh bah

06:12:09 ben_vulpes: not on os x!

06:12:10 pete_dushenski: cazalla: because ?

06:12:49 cazalla: pete_dushenski, well you already have the merc and that's 99% of the way there to adding the flags

06:12:55 ben_vulpes: running, phf_mobile

06:13:31 mircea_popescu: speakin' of the 70s, http://40.media.tumblr.com/d204563f478431af09aeb9ed6587cd94/tumblr_n9eqluUk6D1tttg72o1_1280.jpg

06:13:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpksY9 )

06:14:01 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> because ip is going away, there's no << hear har

06:14:55 pete_dushenski: cazalla: looky, the car and the flags are but a symbol, and until the underlying material fact of diplomatic immunity is a reality, a day i intend to see but am not deluded enough to believe is here yet, then it's for personal enjoyment.

06:15:16 ben_vulpes: i like the fingerprint tho, pete_dushenski

06:15:25 ben_vulpes: kinda want mine painted on my rear fender

06:15:56 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230220 << tres tres tres nifty

06:15:56 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 04:13:57; asciilifeform: (i don't grasp the need for notions like 'check in' or 'check out', etc. one instead throws patches and sigs in a pot, and then proceeds to ask for graph, and then select a leaf on said graph - and get a src tree out.)

06:16:15 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: how's life with the vette btw ?

06:16:34 ben_vulpes: rather nice

06:16:36 cazalla: pete_dushenski, A+ for effort but that doesn't make it good, if i wanted a 2 minute knock up andy warhol photoshop job i could do it myself

06:16:42 ben_vulpes: everyone gets the fuck out of my way.

06:16:57 ben_vulpes: haven't rolled like that since the suburban i drove as a younger boy

06:17:11 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes and pete_dushenski remind me, an associate of mine was offering up a car for btc

06:17:17 asciilifeform: also made me think of kakobrekla.

06:17:36 ben_vulpes: yes i would very much like to trade a rapidly depreciating asset for one that doesn't

06:17:40 ben_vulpes: o.O

06:17:53 ben_vulpes: although i have hopes the corvette will preserve some of its value.

06:18:15 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes gonna put it in his pocket and take across the sea ?

06:18:23 pete_dushenski: cazalla: dude. it's not for you. fin.

06:18:37 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: what kinda car was he selling ?

06:18:51 asciilifeform: iirc it was a 'mazda rx8'

06:18:54 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: now why'd i do that

06:19:03 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i'd fully expect to the vette to hold its value

06:19:21 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: aha. 'wankel' 1.3L rotary engine

06:19:27 asciilifeform: it.

06:19:27 pete_dushenski: the 'rotor' of cars !

06:19:46 ben_vulpes: wankel like electric is a perpetually recurring fad in cars

06:20:13 pete_dushenski: wankel drinks, as in -guzzles-, oil

06:20:25 asciilifeform: & petrol

06:20:25 gribble: Error: "petrol" is not a valid command.

06:20:31 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: seen the duke engine?

06:20:34 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c19kn3drdFU

06:20:35 assbot: Duke Engines - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1eZlcS2 )

06:20:36 pete_dushenski: gribble doesn't like cars

06:20:59 cazalla: pete_dushenski, then who is it for, just you personally? might want to correct your article then "a modest design proposal for La Serenissima" and you?d better believe that #b-a Lords will have fender flags on their motor coaches"

06:21:13 asciilifeform: on their 'ohkas'

06:21:36 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: weird. new to me.

06:21:38 asciilifeform: chrysanthemum ftw

06:22:37 pete_dushenski: cazalla: there's layers here. if you insist on skimming from the top, you'll just get yourself annoyed.

06:24:51 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "chrysaanthemum"?

06:25:52 asciilifeform: jp imperial heraldic

06:25:59 ben_vulpes: ah nm

06:26:13 cazalla: pete_dushenski, what on earth would annoy me about something you drew (lifted) and pitched as your own design proposal? if the bar at which criticism bothers you is set so low, might be time to reevaluate things

06:26:17 asciilifeform: though apparently https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/44/150593208_548186fd71.jpg << cherry blossom

06:26:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eZlQ1U )

06:30:01 mats: is a shame decimation is taking off

06:30:31 mats: consumed cycles, sure, but contributed with interesting conversation

06:30:52 pete_dushenski: ya, he brought decent news articles this way. also fellow econtalk listener

06:31:12 mats: could be worse. could be Anduck or vexual

06:31:34 pete_dushenski: ;;seen Anduck

06:31:35 gribble: Anduck was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Anduck> hmm, seems to work. thanks!

06:32:08 pete_dushenski: name rings a bell, not sure i've ever chatted with ducky.

06:33:11 mats: but to be fair decimation is the only fella regularly engaging in conversation here I can think of that doesn't contribute to LA serenissima

06:33:27 mats: la* stupid mobile

06:34:55 mircea_popescu: "A friend's company took over an officespace previously rented by Crypsa, a Cryptocurrency Standards organization. They tried to sell us them their furnishings ... tables, chairs, etc. ... but my friend got a little suspicious, because they used to live on the same floor and heard that some people got free furnishings. So they approached the Landlord and asked where Crypsa got their furniture. It turns out that yes, th

06:34:56 mircea_popescu: ey did get it from the Landlord and of course, for free. So, the Landlord, now supremely pissed, went and confronted the guy running Crypsa. According to him, the guy just 'blubbered and stammered - he had no excuse.'. It's funny when people get caught in the act, but in this case, it was just sad."

06:35:10 mircea_popescu: how the heck are there all these bullshits nobody ever heard of.

06:35:49 asciilifeform: 'standards organization' !!?!?!

06:35:51 *: asciilifeform falls down

06:36:40 pete_dushenski: cazalla: i dunno what to tell you dude. if you don't like it, you can always take a yellow taxi with jurov. no one's holding a gun to your head around here. if more than one 'lord' likes the 'proposal', then 'lordS will have fender flags on their motor coaches'

06:36:53 pete_dushenski: and if not, then my proposal sucks, and it's just lil' ol' me !

06:38:15 pete_dushenski: mats: y'know i hadn't noticed it, but looking at his ratings, it was immediately obvious (if ex-post)

06:38:20 cazalla: pete_dushenski, if it was a design proposal, you would be a little less stand offish when facing criticism, that said, it's the final product which explains why you've got yourself in a little tizzy

06:39:07 pete_dushenski: cazalla: so let's see this magic 's' of yours, ya ?

06:39:20 mircea_popescu: i give this cazalla trolling pete_dushenski thing a 4/10

06:39:56 pete_dushenski: cazalla: might be an ozzie thing, y'know ? or mebbe commonwealth, i'm curious

06:40:27 mats: lol

06:40:42 cazalla: pete_dushenski, that S thing is http://i.imgur.com/U9IsW.jpg and i'm pitching design proposals in the first place

06:40:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpmW90 )

06:40:43 pete_dushenski: mebbe cazalla imagines that a mercedes 560 sel with 3/4 swastika fender flags will be on his driveway unless he says something now

06:41:24 mats: cazalla: I used to doodle that design in grade school

06:41:36 cazalla: mats, hence that S thing that every kid except pete_dushenski drew

06:41:38 pete_dushenski: cazalla: lol oooh ya, i totally remember those. but i never in a million years woulda imagined that's what you meant by 'that s that every kid drew'

06:41:38 asciilifeform: do we each get a dead empire to necromancy ?

06:41:46 asciilifeform: 'cause i want one too

06:42:00 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: who're you taking then ?

06:42:20 pete_dushenski: cazalla: and that's a good point, i sure as fuck never drew these.

06:42:29 pete_dushenski: saw other kids ? sure.

06:42:33 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: su, or us, or whoever.

06:42:40 mats: I claim the qing.

06:42:44 asciilifeform: mm

06:42:59 mircea_popescu: !up n6

06:43:14 pete_dushenski: mats if you're going asian, why not khanate ?

06:43:33 mats: I got a drop or two of Manchu.

06:43:36 n6: Statically built programs link to libraries the system controls and DETERMINISTIC has everything you need included?

06:43:40 mats: not pure Han.

06:43:55 pete_dushenski: so diverse !

06:44:03 asciilifeform: http://www.classtools.net/_FAKEBOOK/saved/1634/HjheNn/coverImage.jpg

06:44:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpnjQR )

06:44:10 mircea_popescu: n6 something like that.

06:44:13 mats: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/249409-a-great-rabbi-stands-teaching-in-the-marketplace-it-happens

06:44:15 assbot: Quote by Orson Scott Card: “A Great Rabbi stands, teaching in the marketpla...” ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpnknL )

06:45:00 ben_vulpes: statically built programs do not link at runtime, n6

06:45:09 ben_vulpes: they have all the machine code they need in their executeable files

06:46:48 cazalla: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/07/toxic-mine-water-epa-colorado-animas-river drink from the rivers of gold

06:46:49 assbot: Toxic mine water accidentally released by EPA in Colorado river flows south | US news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1eZnv7y )

06:46:58 mircea_popescu: mats heh wtf is that thing

06:47:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26838 @ 0.00059499 = 15.9683 BTC [-] {2}

06:47:53 mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/e2Fm0g4.jpg < heh

06:47:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eZnzUL )

06:48:27 asciilifeform: l0l!

06:48:41 mats: an excerpt from a vaguely metaphysical and spiritual scifi series in the "ender's game" universe I read as a kid

06:49:15 mircea_popescu: mats do you detect the atrocious vulgarity of it or notrly ?

06:50:08 mats: well we have fundamentally different value systems

06:50:36 asciilifeform: reminds me of how, allegedly, a 'go' board and its stones made their way to leonhard euler. and he concluded that the game was played by tossing'em into the cavity at the bottom between the legs

06:50:41 mats: so, while I enjoy the prose, I don't otherwise know what you mean by vulgarity

06:50:53 mircea_popescu: mats what's your definition of vulgarity ?

06:51:31 mats: a lack of refinement

06:51:36 asciilifeform: http://www.gobooks.info/pics/p15.jpg << it

06:51:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hpo24B )

06:52:00 mircea_popescu: well that doesn't exactly help because i assume refinement is then a lack of vulgarity ?

06:52:14 mats: plebeian

06:52:28 mircea_popescu: right, made to appeal to the common man.

06:53:23 mircea_popescu: "all operating systems are monolithic because that's just how computers work" is a fine example of utter vulgarity.

06:53:36 mircea_popescu: it stays true for as long as the reader stays stupid.

06:53:59 mats: well, how do you find this to be vulgar beyond the appeal to plebs

06:54:35 mircea_popescu: like the os quote, it contains no truth, merely the figments of truth in the shape of nonsense that stays truthy on a first approximation basis

06:56:05 mircea_popescu: and on that note, http://40.media.tumblr.com/6a7619a26db80c736b2106ac3758446d/tumblr_n9eqhmGpP91tttg72o1_1280.jpg

06:56:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eZoaWK )

06:57:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00059499 = 25.0491 BTC [-] {4}

06:57:58 cazalla: warning, white pointers

06:58:50 *: mircea_popescu takes off. Laters!

07:02:28 n6: mircea_popescu: are you hinting at the need to build lsub (here) and move it over to (there) In a DETERMINISTIC way? lsub seems to be what I need.

07:02:56 ben_vulpes: deterministic doesn't have much to do with what you're working on n6

07:03:23 n6: then why did I need to know about static linking?

07:05:08 n6: ben_vulpes: How can I build lsub on my macbook and take it to my gentoo install?

07:09:44 n6: Looks like I killed the channel sorry.

07:14:23 ben_vulpes: n6: that is beyond me, boss

07:14:30 ben_vulpes: nah, 'twasn't you

07:14:47 ben_vulpes: static linking is a thing to know about to hack on bitcoin related things

07:14:49 ben_vulpes: !up n6

07:19:51 n6: I will come back and try again when more people are around. sorry to waste everyones time tonight.

07:23:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00059814 = 13.9965 BTC [+]

07:30:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00059814 = 17.9442 BTC [+]

07:44:00 punkman: asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: lulzy, no? almost like poor fella confessed << I was slightly baffled because I thought decimation was in someone's meat-wot, then realized I was thinking of diametric. anyway, quite suspect parting message.

07:46:33 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230653 << for more lulz http://info.datauthority.org/wordpress/standards/

07:46:33 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 06:35:49; asciilifeform: 'standards organization' !!?!?!

07:46:36 assbot: Standards - DATA ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxUfgA )

07:47:02 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell -hf_mobile i'm going to give this another whack tonight and then knock off for a spell. cs seems unhappy about...something.

07:47:02 gribble: Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.

07:47:18 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf_mobile i'm going to give this another whack tonight and then knock off for a spell. cs seems unhappy about...something.

07:47:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:49:29 cazalla: from that brain wallet drama https://rya.nc/cracking_cryptocurrency_brainwallets.pdf someone had 250 btc using "how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood"

07:49:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxUvMI )

07:49:32 scoopbot_revived: Pete moves up, Ver moves on. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/08/pete-moves-up-ver-moves-on/

07:49:50 punkman: cazalla, hah!

07:49:53 pete_dushenski: punkman: the diametric/decimation and undata/trinque things readily cause confusion.

07:50:14 pete_dushenski: to say nothing of benkay/ben_vulpes and bitcoinpete/pete_dushenski !

07:51:07 ben_vulpes: undata and trinque are the same guy too, pete

07:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3142 @ 0.00059499 = 1.8695 BTC [-] {5}

07:52:30 pete_dushenski: ayayay, i'm just not getting through today !

07:52:41 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: *sigh* i know.

07:52:58 pete_dushenski: mebbe i need to hit the sack and try again tmrw

07:53:05 trinque: I go by this other, more specific piece of data now

07:53:18 pete_dushenski: lol but i liked undata !

07:53:30 trinque: 'twas alright

07:53:43 punkman: http://i.imgur.com/cxw3zdC.jpg

07:53:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxUV5Q )

07:53:51 pete_dushenski: trinque: i thought it was better than 'alright'

07:53:52 pete_dushenski: seriously

07:54:09 trinque: why thank you

07:54:29 pete_dushenski: but anyways, i'm off to sleep, bon soir a tous !

07:54:33 trinque: gnite

07:58:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00059814 = 1.1365 BTC [+]

08:08:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00060366 = 7.6665 BTC [+]

08:15:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00060761 = 8.2331 BTC [+] {2}

08:27:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00061075 = 24.6743 BTC [+] {4}

08:50:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00059964 = 12.8323 BTC [-]

08:53:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00059631 = 22.0038 BTC [-] {2}

09:01:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00059631 = 19.0223 BTC [-]

09:16:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21550 @ 0.00059631 = 12.8505 BTC [-]

09:37:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33017 @ 0.00059603 = 19.6791 BTC [-] {4}

10:16:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00059964 = 17.7493 BTC [+]

10:26:28 cazalla: anyone know what this is? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/4nQAAOSwPcVVxa0h/$_20.JPG supposedly some type of printer but prints what exactly?

10:26:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TdUySO )

10:27:52 cazalla: i thought maybe some kind of old embossing machine

10:30:11 jurov: wow that log

10:31:06 scoopbot_revived: Mining Difficulty Advances For The Third Consecutive Time http://qntra.net/2015/08/mining-difficulty-advances-for-the-third-consecutive-time/

10:31:38 jurov: mircea_popescu strucks me like -- "who needs the yucky plankton" said the whale

10:32:15 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230243 <-- alf's 4th law of thermodynamics

10:32:15 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 04:24:05; asciilifeform: the abstraction is imperfect and necessarily leaks.

10:36:22 HeySteve: cazalla my guess is some kind of basic injection moulder

10:36:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00060444 = 17.0452 BTC [+] {3}

11:14:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5007 @ 0.00059499 = 2.9791 BTC [-] {5}

11:25:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00059499 = 19.9322 BTC [-] {2}

12:10:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10916 @ 0.00059499 = 6.4949 BTC [-]

12:16:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7448 @ 0.00059499 = 4.4315 BTC [-]

12:30:01 shinohai: ;;ticker

12:30:03 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 272.16, Best ask: 272.54, Bid-ask spread: 0.38000, Last trade: 272.16, 24 hour volume: 16808.69151018, 24 hour low: 271.5, 24 hour high: 281.0, 24 hour vwap: None

12:35:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00060092 = 11.778 BTC [+]

13:16:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00059944 = 14.0868 BTC [-]

13:26:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22380 @ 0.00060002 = 13.4284 BTC [+] {3}

13:40:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00060218 = 14.7534 BTC [+] {3}

13:47:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00060469 = 8.4052 BTC [+]

13:55:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00060469 = 7.9819 BTC [+]

14:39:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00060259 = 8.376 BTC [-]

14:40:26 mod6: So now that we have 'rotor', most likly we won't need to have the gentoo guide. We'll see how it goes but in the future we'll probably just point people at the gentoo handbook if they want to run Gentoo.

14:40:35 mod6: *likely

14:41:35 mod6: It took me 6 weeks to build that thing with tons of Trinque's help. n6: I understand your frustration totally.

14:43:18 mod6: I appreciate your giving it a run through.

14:43:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00060012 = 10.082 BTC [-] {3}

14:51:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6687 @ 0.00060781 = 4.0644 BTC [+] {3}

14:58:47 kakobrekla: > Ironically, now that MCP runs on commodity hardware some elements of the MCP based software suite are no longer made available in source form by Unisys. <heh

15:03:49 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230794 <<< agreed, but I'm not giving up. Despite how much I love Debian, systemd is a drawback. :/

15:03:49 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 14:41:35; mod6: It took me 6 weeks to build that thing with tons of Trinque's help. n6: I understand your frustration totally.

15:05:57 mod6: Sure thing. Agree 100%, but since 'rotor' can run on any "sane" linux (to quote ascii), we don't have to marry ourselves to Gentoo and thereby also provide steps to build Gentoo. As 'rotor' should work basically anywhere. Needs to really.

15:07:47 mod6: The whole 'we need to get to a sane environment -- let's use Gentoo' idea was pre-dated the rotor. Now I just gotta get rotor to work for me :]

15:09:50 shinohai: I haven't got it to run 100% for me outside of a basic x86_64 build. I am waiting to see a build log for arm systems, then I think I can run with the cross-compilation thing.

15:10:02 shinohai: As it stands, I am still using stator.

15:10:45 kakobrekla: J_EDGAR_HOOVER is the main security guardian of the system, called upon at process start, file open, user log on, etc. < lmao

15:21:39 shinohai: Also mod6 I still have not resolved that rpc issue, will take a fresh look later this afternoon.

15:28:04 shinohai: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10026276 (/_-) #facepalm

15:28:06 assbot: Ethereum Cloud Mining for Dummies | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1TeyrM7 )

15:39:16 mod6: shinohai: ok, did you get a chance to try it on v0.5.3?

15:39:57 mod6: It also couldn't hurt to describe exactly what you're trying to do in here.

15:40:12 shinohai: Not yet, gonna clear a space to try it. But I tried multiple times on the other versions and no dice.

15:40:28 shinohai: Simple rpc call is all, with auth

15:40:41 mod6: other versions as in .. from us? or from power rangers?

15:40:48 mod6: specifics are good :]

15:41:07 shinohai: All the versions of therealbitcoin. Power rangers are fine.

15:41:19 shinohai: For ref, this is what I tried:

15:41:22 shinohai: curl --user rpcuser --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' 127.0.0.1:8332

15:41:43 shinohai: Which asks for password, which I supplied as listed in my .conf

15:42:26 mod6: Ok, yup, next try on v0.5.3

15:42:40 mod6: log results plz

15:42:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00059674 = 14.1726 BTC [-] {4}

15:43:30 shinohai: kk. I am just trying to confirm if I am the only one having this issue. If so, then I am doing *something* horribly stupid.

15:43:52 mircea_popescu: !up wgromniak

15:44:06 shinohai: I fired up namecoind and used the same curl request fine :/

15:44:47 shinohai: Phoundation v 0.10.0 works too

15:47:30 mircea_popescu: <cazalla> from that brain wallet drama https://rya.nc/cracking_cryptocurrency_brainwallets.pdf someone had 250 btc using "how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood" << the benefits of more adoption. i bet you he "just wanted bitcoin to work" and "we" should make sure that happens while he focuses on whatever the fuck he does. running for mayor in futopia, coming up with surnames for earthwor

15:47:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxUvMI )

15:47:32 mircea_popescu: ms, ~important~ stuff.

15:48:50 phf: ;;later tell ben_vulpes if you can run `brew -v install cs >cs-debug.log 2>&1` (-v shows the underlying build output) and send me paste cs-debug.log that would be helpful.

15:48:50 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:49:09 wgromniak: mircea_popescu, thx, just lurking

15:49:36 asciilifeform: 'Move your money out of any brainwallets you?re using. Please. Don?t get robbed. Somebody just lost $14K last week. Here?s how.' << mega-l0l! >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-06-2015#1159368

15:49:36 assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 17:00:38; ascii_field: mats: http://blog.jacobtorrey.com/my-minilock-concerns << i -still- insist that if your brainwallet is crackable, you are a moron

15:50:27 mircea_popescu: <punkman> http://i.imgur.com/cxw3zdC.jpg << i have nfi why porn is sorted by all sorts of dubious criteria rather than say "tit shape". "All girls pears volume MCXVI". "Catshaped Tits LMII". "That weird pubescent thing where the nipple is most of the tit XIV"

15:50:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxUV5Q )

15:51:31 mircea_popescu: in any case, http://40.media.tumblr.com/95f4dd82298be86b3e700ea8a403afc5/tumblr_na40uyFuJX1tttg72o1_1280.jpg

15:51:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCHGnA )

15:52:15 shinohai: >.> https://i.imgur.com/Zvq07tS.webm

15:52:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCHLaQ )

15:52:59 mircea_popescu: <jurov> mircea_popescu strucks me like -- "who needs the yucky plankton" said the whale << can you be specific ? what is this, neoimpressionism ?

15:53:28 asciilifeform: 'Brainflayer could cover that search space in less than a week on EC2' << lamerz. when i heard 'brainflayer' i assumed it was this chair where victim is slowly electrified with character by character scrolling by and settling into place 'slot machine' style based on his reactions, as his eyelids are glued open

15:53:45 asciilifeform: (character of the pw)

15:54:19 shinohai: I assume one must have a brain before attempting to use a brainwallet ....

15:54:30 asciilifeform: either ^this or that 'f-mri' gadget where machine determines if 'has seen X before'

15:54:44 asciilifeform: and iterates through partial X-es

15:55:16 mircea_popescu: <mod6> Sure thing. Agree 100%, but since 'rotor' can run on any "sane" linux (to quote ascii), we don't have to marry ourselves to Gentoo << not clear there exist any sane linuxen ; not clear that if we don't marry to something there'll be anything left next year. that sorta thing.

15:55:29 phf: ;;later tell ben_vulpes in fact if i manage to fix whatever cs issue future instruction should be to do brew install -v eulora > eulora.log 2>&1, so you don't have to rerun it twice if something breaks

15:55:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:55:40 mircea_popescu: but otherwise the point is correct, the gentoo choice predated the rotor and proibably was made obsolete by it

15:56:14 asciilifeform: even if using 'rotor', you still gotta live in that linux.

15:56:32 asciilifeform: use its xorg, userland, etc

15:58:07 wywialm: hello, I would like to request your comments on the project i am collaborating on

15:58:36 wywialm: https://quedex.net/

15:58:38 assbot: Quedex Bitcoin Derivatives Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCIA3p )

15:59:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8343 @ 0.00060945 = 5.0846 BTC [+] {2}

15:59:16 shinohai: dat javascript

16:00:15 wywialm: works without :)

16:01:06 mircea_popescu: wywialm can you isntead make statements ?

16:01:41 wywialm: sure, statements about the exchange?

16:01:57 mircea_popescu: like "i'm collaborating on a project based on P1 P2 P3 being true and P4 and P5 being false, it is supposed to achieve Q. Any comments ?"

16:02:13 mircea_popescu: that works a lot better, not likely i'm going to form much of a useful idea from looking at a web interface.

16:03:04 wywialm: from the security perspective, it is based on the MPEx PGP standard

16:03:30 mircea_popescu: in other lolz, http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-114982

16:03:31 assbot: A complete theory of economics on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TeDlc4 )

16:03:53 wywialm: (see https://quedex.net/doc/pgp_messages)

16:03:53 assbot: Quedex Bitcoin Derivatives Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1TeDo7O )

16:03:57 mircea_popescu: wywialm in the sense that what, users give you their key and all subsequent communication's encrypted and signed by it ?

16:04:14 wywialm: that is true

16:04:39 mircea_popescu: pretty cool.

16:05:12 shinohai: Leaving this here for google to index kthx. <<< lulz wut?

16:05:41 mircea_popescu: someone is new at the entire "spun content" business.

16:05:57 mircea_popescu: "make money while asleep!"

16:06:33 phf: next step in SEO, leaving links on b-a. "hitler lizard diddled singles! http://..."

16:07:25 mircea_popescu: i'd pay to see.

16:07:41 mircea_popescu: what is this, woman being ravished by komodo dragon with military cap ?

16:08:34 wywialm: from the financial perspective, it assumes that when running futures exchange, one should also provide options and have a complete market

16:09:08 mircea_popescu: "Thats like saying the dotcom bubble was a scam isn't it? You can certainly phrase it like that but is that really whats going on. An actual scam?"

16:09:13 mircea_popescu: where do these fucktards spawn from srsly.

16:09:23 mircea_popescu: wywialm options on what ?

16:09:39 mircea_popescu: for instance i had an open offer for a tsla short in here weeks ago, could it have filled it ?

16:09:39 wywialm: and that market should be bitcoin-oriented, i.e. contracts should be structured treading fiat currencies as foreign currencies

16:09:52 mircea_popescu: oh, fx futures you mean ?

16:10:08 wywialm: currently - on fiat currencies, but i'd very much like to introduce stock options

16:10:24 mircea_popescu: how do you resolve the liability issue ?

16:11:06 mircea_popescu: suppose i buy a million dollars to be delivered in q4. how do you resolve the part where you have to make sure whoever sold me the mn actually has it by then ?

16:12:12 wywialm: currently the contracts are financially settled, but when we move to the physical delivery (as soon as possible), the margins would increase as the contract approaches notice date

16:12:36 mircea_popescu: so sellers get daily margin calls ?

16:13:48 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/52250483f30c6d161a3d9517789a4ac7/tumblr_n9eqdbprVo1tttg72o1_1280.jpg << quoted for the pained face and contorted body language of the derp in white. she KNOWS, like in her ovaries, that she's looking at exactly what she should be doing. she thinks, in her stupid head, that this is not something she could do. so she's in the physically detectable process of inventing contortions of nonsense to

16:14:03 mircea_popescu: "explain" and "make sense" of it all. because omfg, what if she just ditched the blouse o noes her mommy told her the sky would fall.

16:14:03 wywialm: margin calls might appear in real time, if the margin is not replenished quickly, the position is liquidated

16:14:19 wywialm: where quickly is defined in terms of price move

16:14:24 mircea_popescu: "quickly"

16:14:36 mircea_popescu: so it gets liquidated. what's that do for buyer ?

16:14:37 wywialm: :)

16:14:51 mircea_popescu: i bought 1mn in q4, yoiu're gonna give me 3/4 mn in q3 because hey, why not ?

16:14:53 mircea_popescu: im suing you.

16:15:56 wywialm: the liquidated contract is sold on the market at the market price

16:16:17 mircea_popescu: but you see what i mean do you ?

16:17:31 wywialm: yes, ultimately, the exchange provides reserves to cover for members' losses, which are planned to be strenghened by credit default swaps

16:18:22 shinohai: From: https://quedex.net/doc/security "The Cold Wallet is implemented on top of the Bitcoin Core client using watch-only addresses." <<< fail ?

16:18:23 assbot: Quedex Bitcoin Derivatives Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1TeFF2S )

16:19:05 wywialm: shinohai that is why i'm asking you - could you please explain?

16:19:15 mircea_popescu: this will be the bane of your existence, on the general theoretic front. because like it or not, the unappealing dilemma is, either offer "renegotiable contracts", which is roughly what you're describing, and which fails at the only job futures have to do (ie, ensure the buyer of specified amount of specified merchandise on specified date), or else full reserve, which will kill your speculators without which no market

16:19:16 mircea_popescu: can function (irrespective of what idiots such as the eu central bank think). so there is that.

16:19:25 mircea_popescu: but in point of fact, for your daily life, you'll have a much more annoying problem.

16:19:31 mircea_popescu: what btc price do you use for settlement ?

16:20:15 shinohai: wywialm: still analyzing

16:20:27 mircea_popescu: shinohai will require a coupla engineers always on to watch the watchjer. this is unavoidalbe, bitcoin is a pos anyway.

16:21:23 wywialm: currently - an average across 4 USD exchanges, with cutting out outliers

16:22:27 mircea_popescu: problem being the market's illiquid enough to be easily pushed. but that's not something you'll manage to fix or really should be fixing.

16:23:05 mircea_popescu: what's the meaning of "collaborating on" in this context ?

16:23:23 wywialm: i am the economist behind all this

16:24:02 mircea_popescu: are you an outside consultant on a salary, a board member with an equity interest, a volunteer academic, none of the above.

16:24:22 mircea_popescu: (note that deferred salary payments and other promises make you a 3)

16:25:30 wywialm: re spot illiquidity - i acknowlegde this, currency futures as well as commodity futures should have physical delivery and we're working on it

16:26:06 mircea_popescu: if your future doesn't deliver it has a hole in it, sooner or later it'll infect and puss out. anyway.

16:26:16 wywialm: 3) academic with deferred salary payments dependent of the performace of the exchange

16:27:02 mircea_popescu: why would you wish to risk your reputation (which, whatever you may think of it, is significant enough that you can come here and have my ear whenever you want to) on this thing ? for all you know you're reliving the neobee nightmare. you remember that ?

16:28:12 wywialm: i think it's a good idea, and i know personally people involved, and i needed your comments - how else could i get these?

16:28:24 wywialm: btw: thank you for kind words

16:28:39 mircea_popescu: why're these people involved not in the wot for instance ? who are they ? how do you know any word they say is true ?

16:29:09 shinohai: neobee provided so many lulz

16:29:26 wywialm: yes, i remember neobee very well

16:29:52 mircea_popescu: the way this usually works, and it has worked about 500 times to date with 0 variance, is that scammer gets a coupla sluts and a coupla "credible people" to contact respectable, well meaning folk, launches project. from the perspective of the public the respectable folk form an impenetrable visual barrier. from the perspective of said folk, the coupla sluts and couipla salesmen idem. and a year to a year and a half lat

16:29:52 mircea_popescu: er scammer runs witrh moey and the entire stack of noobs is left apologizing

16:30:31 mircea_popescu: !up n6

16:31:03 asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/04/truecrypt_decrypted_by_fbi << lulz

16:31:04 assbot: Wait, what? TrueCrypt 'decrypted' by FBI to nail doc-stealing sysadmin • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1KXlcQK )

16:31:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they finally giving up on all the pretense re truecrypt ? win.

16:31:42 mircea_popescu: i guess all the effort to parallel-construct was no longer worth it seeing how "nobody" really bought it anyway.

16:31:43 wywialm: i will of course invite them to WoT - but i know them for a long time irl

16:32:03 nubbins`: re:neobee, wonder what happened to thickasthieves

16:32:14 mircea_popescu: wywialm there's know and there's know. not something i can help you with - but know you are in fact taking your fate in your own hands and make the call as to these people in full light of that.

16:32:14 shinohai: That means little to potential investors though.

16:32:20 nubbins`: i guess he got his cream and moved on

16:32:29 mircea_popescu: nubbins` iirc he narrowly survived that, a settlement being involved.

16:32:35 nubbins`: o!

16:32:46 nubbins`: he got way too much of a pass in here

16:32:52 nubbins`: for the amount of shady things he was into

16:33:06 n6: Hey mircea_popescu I have been coming around last few days getting a ton of help, but it has all made me feel awful. Last year I really let your ideas down and ended up getting tricked by someone pretending to be a friend of mine. but in the end the basic ideas saved me from going to jail. would you help me work out?

16:33:08 mircea_popescu: it's a forum, this. really very free passage throughout.

16:33:21 mircea_popescu: n6 work out ?!

16:33:22 nubbins`: 8)

16:33:32 mircea_popescu: like what, aerobics ?

16:33:36 n6: Yep

16:33:45 mircea_popescu: o.O

16:33:52 *: nubbins` takes notes

16:34:06 mircea_popescu: what the fuck am i, jane fonda over here. talk to a woman in good shape, they know.

16:34:06 n6: Have no gpg key to prove who I am

16:34:17 nubbins`: ^ bummer

16:34:17 wywialm: mircea_popescu, i acknowledge this

16:34:23 mircea_popescu: !rated wywialm

16:34:23 assbot: You rated user wywialm on 27-Nov-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Polish econ guy..

16:34:34 n6: but maybe my story can help others

16:34:50 mircea_popescu: !rate wywialm 3 Polish econ guy, trying to make quedex.net work.

16:34:50 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f2dbea7a4193912d

16:35:04 nubbins`: !s thickasthieves

16:35:05 assbot: 49811 results for 'thickasthieves' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=thickasthieves

16:35:11 nubbins`: o jeez

16:35:21 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.wywialm.3:8bbdc73128302d7bd5c78c2e2521b516d2041fa396c65d8d866b13e26f149a02

16:35:21 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for wywialm from 2 to 3 with note: Polish econ guy, trying to make quedex.net work.

16:35:26 nubbins`: LEL all those unrates.

16:35:35 mircea_popescu: wywialm best of luck. there isn't anything glaringly obvious to say else.

16:35:53 mircea_popescu: n6 so say your story.

16:35:57 n6: working on it.

16:36:06 wywialm: mircea_popescu, i didn't expect this, but i'm thankful

16:36:06 mircea_popescu: was another guy did something similar, trying to remember

16:36:09 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 maybe.

16:36:30 wywialm: actually, there are two more issues i would like to ask you

16:36:34 mircea_popescu: shoot

16:36:47 n6: Started reading reading fraudsters about 2.5 years ago, and it was all, I could think about. But my understanding was lacking. so I didnt talk in b-a took it to all my friends, none of them seeme to care. but then one guy cyperpunk sort of guy... we talked about it for about 3/mo then he dropped off the face of the earth

16:37:48 wywialm: first,is the dual market model - we are utilising auctions on openings and closes. Do you have any thoughts on it?

16:37:58 n6: at some point he came back to a chan with just me and him and all he wanted to talk about was your site and doing mpex.. told him at first we didnt know anything we would just lose all our money to error or get robbed. but he kept pushing and I gave in and went to hook up with him in nyc

16:38:20 nubbins`: you went to hook up with him o.O

16:38:21 mircea_popescu: wywialm it's not an illegitimate approach. i can't evaluate how practically useful it'll be, but then again that's what you folks are in for right ?

16:38:48 mircea_popescu: n6 what's your first language ?

16:38:56 n6: english

16:38:58 n6: just very bad with it.

16:39:00 mircea_popescu: kk go on.

16:39:23 wywialm: second, is the stock options mentioned above - would you allow to issue options on S.MPOE, or would you allow creating an MPEx index to issue derivatives on it?

16:39:33 n6: we had a longer friendship then 3/mo and he was the one who told me about bitcoin forums (how i found out about mpoe-pr). anyway once I got to nyc, saw we both didnt know anything so pretty much told him I couldnt keep keys and we would lose all our money

16:39:36 n6: he still wanted to do it

16:39:42 n6: told him he should just do coinbr and leave me out of it

16:39:47 n6: said he was ok with losing all his money

16:40:07 n6: told him I wouldn't have anything to do with fiat only bitcoin and we would have to move out of the states to do it.

16:40:46 mircea_popescu: wywialm i'm not required to allow trading of options. for as long as you hold some of the underlying, you can structure its ownership in any way you wish. such as through trading options on it.

16:41:02 n6: he was also asking me to rep him in the wot ( told him he had to do that on his own )

16:41:22 mircea_popescu: !gettrust n6

16:41:25 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user n6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=n6 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/n6/

16:41:27 n6: I'm not a user

16:41:32 n6: no key

16:41:32 mircea_popescu: n6 how would you help him then ?

16:41:49 wywialm: legally - yes, but you would be a stakeholder in some sense, so i'd rather do it with you knowing about it

16:42:00 n6: I was wrong. but your ideas saved me

16:42:07 *: nubbins` chuckles

16:42:25 nubbins`: i have 5 bucks says MP is getting a woman to read this back to him later

16:42:29 n6: I couldn't help him, thought he would do some reading on his own but all he wanted me to do was save posts for him to read.

16:42:37 n6: yep

16:42:42 n6: more then 5

16:43:08 nubbins`: your friend sounds like a chump

16:43:08 n6: even showed me how to save a post on my desktop.... into a pdf

16:43:11 nubbins`: no offense

16:43:16 n6: he isnt my friend he was someone pretending to be

16:43:22 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you lose.

16:43:26 nubbins`: :/

16:43:27 wywialm: anyway, thank you for your comments

16:43:40 n6: sorry for how I acted, mind if i come back around?

16:43:46 nubbins`: n6 when you said "cypherpunk" i stopped caring :P

16:43:58 mircea_popescu: wywialm well i'm not entirely sure how that'd work, not like i'm against it or anything. but gotta come up with something specific.

16:44:02 nubbins`: n6 heck, pull up a chair

16:44:07 n6: nubbins` for good reason... but he was the only person around my level I could find to talk about this with.

16:44:13 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i always thought you're like the only cypherpunk here you know.

16:44:37 wywialm: sure, when technical stuff is ready i will let you know

16:44:39 mircea_popescu: n6 either i'm slow today or something's amiss. i don't get what exactly you think you did wrong from this story.

16:45:12 n6: I didn't interact with my first friend using gpg auth so someoen else just stepped in and was able too..

16:45:23 n6: we had only ever met online

16:45:43 mircea_popescu: so what, i'm the patron saint of sane ops ?

16:45:52 shinohai: tl;dr use wot next time

16:46:03 n6: yes

16:46:11 mircea_popescu: tell you what, wen i was about 10 a girl that really liked me in schooil called me on the phone pretending to be this other girl i really liked, and she tricked me into meeting at the movies.

16:46:27 mircea_popescu: i didnmt think to ask for a gpg sig. bought her an icecream and we even kissed!

16:46:31 mircea_popescu: will you ever forgive me ?

16:46:54 mircea_popescu: (yes, back when i was 10 kids went to the cinema on their own. fancy that.)

16:47:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00060946 = 18.2229 BTC [+] {2}

16:47:01 mircea_popescu: (even got a discount)

16:47:10 n6: Yes, do you forgive me for being an idiot and trying to fuck up what your building with derping around?

16:47:22 wywialm: ah, in case you, the assetteers, are interested - Quedex is running beta testing combined with trading challenge. Participation is greatly welcomed as well as any feedback

16:47:24 mircea_popescu: i srsly don't see a problem n6. relax an; enjoy.

16:48:01 wywialm: more info at https://quedex.net/challenge/ranking

16:48:02 assbot: Quedex Bitcoin Derivatives Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1gmATDD )

16:48:21 mircea_popescu: wywialm you gonna introduce eulora copper derivatives ? :D

16:48:35 mircea_popescu: The sum of Bitcoin prizes in the challenge is 3.14159265 BTC. hahaha

16:49:12 mircea_popescu: "how do we do this, we don't have a lot of money to spend on it" "just pick a significant number, that's how mp always does it. people will think hey, it's metasyntactic!"

16:49:31 n6: mircea_popescu: I'm still working on getting the callgraph http://fraudsters.com/2015/open-callgraph-for-therealbitcoin-in-svg-format/#comment-114958 working but seem to have lost my lsub file, on my gentoo install and need to build it on os x and move it over to my gentoo distro. think you could help me with that?

16:49:32 assbot: [OPEN] Callgraph for therealbitcoin, in SVG format. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MXrqQ2 )

16:49:40 wywialm: that is just beta :)

16:49:44 n6: seems a shame to come all this way and not finish the job.

16:50:04 mircea_popescu: n6 notrly, i'm not much of a systems guy.

16:50:35 n6: mircea_popescu: didn't you teach some kids how to use gentoo with RagnarDanneskjol ?

16:51:17 mircea_popescu: mno. just recommended him to give them something to do hopefully less retarded than what they were doing at the time.

16:51:38 mircea_popescu: (hostile messages won't be awarded points) << lol how da fuck do you police that.

16:52:20 wywialm: in case we notice :)

16:52:29 n6: mircea_popescu: any ideas for how I might get back a lsub?

16:52:54 wywialm: the recommendations are moderated, also

16:52:59 mircea_popescu: i dunno, build it.

16:53:11 n6: where do I learn how to do that?

16:54:24 n6: Got so much help from everyone in here, that was the only way I could even get the install working. even after reading docs for hours. need similar help here.

16:56:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24250 @ 0.00061157 = 14.8306 BTC [+] {4}

16:56:16 mircea_popescu: i don't even fucking remember what lsub was

16:57:31 mircea_popescu: the usb lister thing ?

16:58:26 n6: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wifi#Hardware_Detection yes

16:58:28 assbot: Wifi - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1gmCY2y )

16:58:43 mircea_popescu: isn't that lsusb ?

16:59:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, writing an article, i'll bbl.

16:59:06 n6: I need to compile it here and move it to there

16:59:19 n6: ok ttyl thanks for letting me come back.

17:03:18 shinohai: !up n6

17:04:11 n6: thanks shinohai, but not sure anyone is around who can help me, going to do some reading.

17:04:32 shinohai: what did u need help with lusb?

17:05:00 shinohai: *lsusb

17:05:13 n6: it's missing on my gentoo install and need to install some wifi ethernet is broken.

17:05:58 *: asciilifeform has nothing against n00bz, but has the distinct feeling of watching primary school pupils banging on the door of a university maths dept for help with arithmetic homework.

17:06:20 shinohai: Well that sux. I can't be of much help when it comes to gentoo tho :/

17:06:32 asciilifeform: schools have grade for a reason?

17:07:51 phf: i need to reverse a list in lisp - use nreverse - no i need to do it manually!

17:08:04 asciilifeform: 'here, have a magnetized needle'

17:09:14 n6: woudln't know never went to school asciilifeform dropped out in the 7th grade.

17:09:24 n6: and before that never did any work.

17:09:30 n6: seems to have caught up with me in the end.

17:09:43 asciilifeform: n6: what did you do with the time you won ?

17:10:05 *: asciilifeform has several colleagues who didn't finish school, they put the time to good use

17:10:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00061473 = 12.9708 BTC [+] {3}

17:11:05 n6: I played video games and read selectively

17:13:05 asciilifeform: what's it mean to 'read selectively' ?

17:15:00 n6: It means I didn't read to learn just read for enjoyment or until something got hard and gave up.

17:16:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the first one's always instructive.

17:16:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00060905 = 7.8263 BTC [-]

17:16:35 mircea_popescu: very simple math in my head, "is this one doing a better job at X than the last/best one we saw to date". obviously in empty lines this is trivial. also perhaps not for everyone.

17:19:03 n6: mircea_popescu: how does someone go about learning Romanian?

17:19:17 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231075 <<< That's the answer! Give up when it gets hard!

17:19:17 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 17:15:00; n6: It means I didn't read to learn just read for enjoyment or until something got hard and gave up.

17:19:26 shinohai: I've been doing it all wrong.

17:19:42 mircea_popescu: n6 same way you learn any language - find a native girlfriend.

17:20:06 n6: never had a girlfriend.

17:21:05 shinohai: n6: http://backpage.com/

17:21:06 assbot: Free classifieds - backpage.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1J2Qqpw )

17:21:26 mircea_popescu: how old are you n6 ?

17:21:29 n6: 26

17:21:42 shinohai: Christ on a stick

17:21:47 mircea_popescu: you're missing out.

17:21:55 n6: was a recluse for 12~ years

17:22:03 mircea_popescu: who paid the bills ?

17:22:06 n6: my mommy

17:22:13 n6: and the govorment

17:22:26 phf: most romanian girls i've met on the east coast were doing work exchange at beach towns. they are very friendly and talkative because americans seemed to be scared of approaching them

17:22:27 *: shinohai not sure if trolling ....

17:23:13 mircea_popescu: phf gotta appreciate they grew up in a sane culture. you know, malecentric rapeworld of doom-evil thing.

17:23:30 mircea_popescu: so the world as reflected in their eyes doesn't actually suck the way it does for usian born and bred.

17:24:31 phf: i sometimes forget how it us outside of here

17:25:01 mircea_popescu: i don't think it's got a decade into it left anyway

17:25:08 mircea_popescu: the us way is after all easier.

17:25:23 n6: shinohai: i'm not trolling

17:26:33 phf: mircea_popescu: you mean sane culture has a decade left to it? i've noticed the whole rapeworld thing happening to russian girls

17:26:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146707

17:26:33 assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 03:27:41; asciilifeform: generally these folks have better sense than to come here.

17:27:05 mircea_popescu: phf "rapeworld". just because english tards use words doesn't mean much.

17:29:40 phf: i hope so, because the whole thing is toxic and oppressive

17:30:07 mircea_popescu: i think we'd greatly benefit from defining things here, i'm getting confused.

17:31:42 mircea_popescu: so, i see three things. 1) the actual rape culture as seen in "women are cattle" vory outlook on life and derivatives ; 2) the so-called "rape culture" wherein male dominance is generally recognised as natural within some bounds ; 3) the libertard nonsense, a recent reimplementation of the ancient socialist "great leaps forward".

17:31:48 mircea_popescu: i was comparing 2 and 3. were you thinking of 1 ?

17:32:31 phf: no, 2 and 3. i was saying that 3 is toxic and oppressive

17:32:43 mircea_popescu: oh i c.

17:32:55 mircea_popescu: i dunno, it's really just meaningless.

17:32:59 mircea_popescu: toxic, i suppose, if one's bolted down.

17:33:06 mircea_popescu: like the nut tree's toxic.

17:34:56 phf: well, you're not experiencing it directly, and it seems palpable here, in the real world. like i went to a beach a few weeks ago in americatown (ocean city, md) and the vibes are just nasty. sluggish girls with stooped shoulders avoiding any sort of eye contact or making nasty faces at you if you linger on them too long

17:35:51 mircea_popescu: so you say "hey, something bothering you" ?

17:36:20 phf: i thought maybe it's from too much internet, but no, there was a group of girls that acted like normal human beings, coy and playful and active. turned out they were slovenian

17:36:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35334 @ 0.00060022 = 21.2082 BTC [-]

17:36:52 asciilifeform: ^ absolute iron SOP in usa

17:37:13 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> nubbins` i always thought you're like the only cypherpunk here you know. <<< wat

17:38:17 mircea_popescu: nubbins` srsly ? downshifting, hanging out with obscure bands and whatnoit making posters all day. whjat else ?

17:38:18 scoopbot_revived: The Structured Conversation http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-structured-conversation/

17:38:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: phuctor reactor refueling now !

17:39:21 mircea_popescu: phf it's funny to me, as a purely unconvinced observer of "culture" as a feeding epiphenomena, to notice just how fundamentally workable the whole species is. does it want a war ? it'll fucking fix the demographics and get it, and you can write any book you want - it'll help!

17:39:22 nubbins`: you make cypherpunks sound like slummed-out ne'er-do-wells

17:39:24 nubbins`: oh wait ;p

17:39:42 mircea_popescu: nubbins` did i leave out the psychoactives or somewhing ? whence the protest ? :D

17:40:17 nubbins`: :D

17:40:24 mircea_popescu: "guy with a pgp key and a bmezine archive" = cypherpunk

17:40:28 chetty: <phf> i thought maybe it's from too much internet, but no,/usa girls are taught that all men are nasty pervs and must be avoided, and even those who dont buy it must behave like that in groups

17:40:29 mircea_popescu: what was your definition.

17:40:30 nubbins`: heh.

17:40:42 nubbins`: i actually went back to browse the BME community website thing

17:40:43 nubbins`: sad :/

17:40:47 mircea_popescu: chetty the mindboggling thing is that they'd buy it.

17:40:53 mircea_popescu: since when do adolescent women listen to anyone.,

17:41:10 nubbins`: since they encountered enough nasty pervs to realize?

17:41:26 chetty: they listen to their peers, or at least behave as they do

17:42:40 mircea_popescu: nubbins` these actually exist ?

17:42:59 mircea_popescu: they seem more akin to the counterfeit "collabolators" of soviet era.

17:43:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00061715 = 22.3717 BTC [+] {3}

17:48:04 ben_vulpes: phf: running and logging the CS install

17:48:34 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ^ absolute iron SOP in usa << i do not get this attitude of yourn

17:49:03 phf: cool thanks!

17:49:27 ben_vulpes: i have a wife, wear a ring, and dates are *still* very easy to procure

17:49:32 ben_vulpes: do you boys not /smile/ or something?

17:50:29 phf: ben_vulpes: i wasn't talking about "dates"

17:51:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00061884 = 2.0422 BTC [+] {2}

17:51:22 mircea_popescu: maybe the east coast sucks this bad

17:52:20 phf: ben_vulpes: also beach in san diego was a lot more pleasant overall then the one in ocean city md, so it must be east coast thing

17:53:04 *: asciilifeform was brain-melted when visiting the distant lands where gurlz look like people, in apr. '14 and '15

17:54:03 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2015#1106285 << see also.

17:54:03 assbot: Logged on 22-04-2015 02:23:24; ascii_lander: in usa perhaps 1 in 10 20-30y.o. females has the face of a human being, rather than a malignant motorized plastic doll

17:55:02 ben_vulpes: i think this whole routine of ascii's boils down to "the east coast sucks and more so in direct proportion to DC proximity"

17:55:02 phf: ben_vulpes: besides you're an american, let the expats bitch and moan :)

17:55:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35144 @ 0.00059734 = 20.9929 BTC [-] {3}

17:55:22 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nyc didn't look detectably different to naked eye

17:55:43 ben_vulpes: you don't see much of a difference between nyc and the md burbs?

17:55:57 asciilifeform: not in the phenomenon discussed earlier

17:56:03 ben_vulpes: or is this just the girlfaces

17:56:09 asciilifeform: aha

17:56:19 ben_vulpes: i am mystified i tell you

17:56:51 ben_vulpes: coracle's caught up to 209425

17:57:02 ben_vulpes: slurping dregs from dulap

17:57:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: might wanna switch to zoolag for a spell, if too slow

17:57:33 asciilifeform: dulap is getting reactor rods swapped

17:58:07 ben_vulpes: what and wait for bitcoin to shut down?

17:58:08 ben_vulpes: noty.

17:58:15 ben_vulpes: plus, i have all century.

17:58:17 asciilifeform: lel

17:58:48 *: ben_vulpes shuts down bitcoind, sets reminder for self, wanders off to make coffee, dismisses reminder ('no way its's shut down yet'), forgetst to restart

17:58:59 ben_vulpes: been down this road too many times now.

17:59:10 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: y'know it's ok to kill -9 it ~AFTER~ it lets go of db

17:59:44 ben_vulpes: what's the logline that indicates its let go of the db?

18:00:03 asciilifeform: lsof

18:02:24 *: ben_vulpes emerges more things

18:04:05 ben_vulpes: nifty, asciilifeform

18:04:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: never seen it before ?

18:05:16 ben_vulpes: no sir

18:05:28 *: nubbins` claps

18:10:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33950 @ 0.00059499 = 20.1999 BTC [-] {4}

18:11:00 chetty: usa girls are taught that all men are nasty pervs and must be avoided// on consideration not so sure they are wrong either

18:12:17 *: nubbins` gestures

18:12:34 nubbins`: bbl making cat posters ;p

18:20:19 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf http://cascadianhacker.com/eulora/cslogs.tar.gz

18:20:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TeVkiG )

18:20:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:21:25 ben_vulpes: there he is

18:22:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30850 @ 0.00060486 = 18.6599 BTC [+] {3}

18:22:43 phf: got your log

18:22:58 ben_vulpes: i've not looked at it yet

18:23:57 phf: chetty: doesn't make for pleasant living

18:30:33 phf: ben_vulpes: mm, it looks like your install is picking up some extra packages that i don't have and haven't tested. specifically it's failing trying to build bullet related plugins.

18:32:28 trinque: mod6 | The whole 'we need to get to a sane environment -- let's use Gentoo' idea was pre-dated the rotor. Now I just gotta get rotor to work for me :] << for sure; my current efforts are directed at the problem of n00bs showing up, asking for a gentleman's computer, and getting five hundred contradictory answers on how to set it up

18:32:36 phf: i think that might be fixable using something like --disable-* or --without-*, i'll take a look at it in a bit

18:33:30 ben_vulpes: phf: possible holdover from macports?

18:34:27 phf: oh that makes things even more interesting :p

18:35:42 phf: ben_vulpes: do you have bullet installed in homebrew? brew list|grep bullet

18:35:45 ben_vulpes: well except i don't think i ever did

18:35:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.00061884 = 19.215 BTC [+]

18:35:58 ben_vulpes: myeah, let me rip that out and run it again

18:37:29 phf: yeah cs's configure takes --without-* param, so i'll harden the script too

18:37:53 ben_vulpes: installing again without bullet present

18:37:55 ben_vulpes: hopefully

18:39:14 phf: i think i found another issue, that's present on my system too. seems like cs requires openal, but i don't have it in dependencies (nor do i have it installed). not sure if it just went past the issue on my install or what

18:45:52 ben_vulpes: does your eulora boot?

18:46:06 phf: yes

18:46:11 ben_vulpes: lucky guy

18:46:21 ben_vulpes: i'll get there i'm sure

18:47:37 phf: i did three builds so far, one was manual toothpicks and gum, the other one was generated using a shell script, but that was just unmanageable, so i'll figured i'll try homebrew scripts, which is the most promising so far

18:49:24 ben_vulpes: set -e, write functions?

18:49:36 ben_vulpes: i can't do shell scripts without those two things.

18:49:47 phf: ben_vulpes: yes, of course

18:49:47 ben_vulpes: anyways, off for a spell

18:50:10 ben_vulpes: you'd think those things would be an 'of course', wouldn't you

18:51:52 phf: i was also trying to build gcc&co with the same script, which is where i drew the line. but if it's not self contained and i have to rely on homebrew anyway, might as well make it all modern and dwim

18:57:04 phf: ben_vulpes: i updated cs to not build untested plugins, so if you do brew update..

19:15:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29350 @ 0.00059499 = 17.463 BTC [-] {3}

19:30:17 chetty: phf> chetty: doesn't make for pleasant living/perhaps not pleasant, just real

19:31:17 mircea_popescu: what's a "perv"

19:31:43 mircea_popescu: i suppose anyone not aiming to get them pregnant's perverse by the general definition. this also includes the girls in question.

19:34:08 chetty: well what is and isnt a 'perv' is a pretty personal definition. Some might go with the pregnant call but not many, imo.

19:34:23 mircea_popescu: still, the word has to have a shared meaning

19:34:32 mircea_popescu: what's this personal thing ? can't have personally defined words.

19:35:54 chetty: well lets make it easy then, most of the 'men' in this channel would seem to qualify under common understanding of the word.

19:36:18 mircea_popescu: which is ?

19:37:33 mod6: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes: rotor built successfully.

19:37:45 mircea_popescu: yay

19:37:59 ben_vulpes: woo

19:39:30 danielpbarron: i think it's perverted to "preserve the innocence" of kids like how parents spell out "bad" words and avoid answering questions of a sexual nature and whatnot

19:40:29 mircea_popescu: certainly a frank approach of any matter is a more respectable thing to do than any alternative.

19:40:30 chetty: <mircea_popescu> which is ?// consider the general attitude of women mostly only fit to be cows or slaves ...

19:40:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00061884 = 14.9759 BTC [+] {3}

19:41:18 mircea_popescu: chetty that's far from general is it.

19:41:54 chetty: nah, its general enough, this channel is just more honest about it

19:42:03 mircea_popescu: most people are in fact cows and would greatly benefit from making the step up to slavery, but afaik i'm pretty much the only one with that view.

19:42:46 chetty: nah, its just most couch it more politely

19:42:48 mod6: trinque: would you be opposed to resubmitting your patch for the rotor to the ML as a attachment with a detached sig? I have a list of concise steps that is basically a simple script to do all of the steps to build rotor/static-deterministic-stator just need to get that piece into place. that's the only manual step at this point.

19:43:00 mod6: If not, I can do it for you. Just let me know what works, or if you need help.

19:53:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24567 @ 0.00061885 = 15.2033 BTC [+] {3}

20:02:43 mod6: anyway, no rush.

20:33:29 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf updated cs log bundle for you

20:33:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:33:32 ben_vulpes: still no dice

20:33:46 ben_vulpes: ran brew update, got new recipe, still no dice on cs

20:34:03 ben_vulpes: 90% of what i do around here is compiling other people's software

20:34:17 ben_vulpes: then saying "hurr durr dun werk"

20:38:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231237 << optimist

20:38:53 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 19:42:03; mircea_popescu: most people are in fact cows and would greatly benefit from making the step up to slavery, but afaik i'm pretty much the only one with that view.

20:40:00 kakobrekla: on which? people being cows? cows benefiting? cows taking up slavery?

20:44:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00061884 = 6.1575 BTC [-] {3}

20:49:40 mircea_popescu: compound views!

20:57:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00061524 = 9.0133 BTC [-]

20:57:42 jurov: i'd say alf was ironic

20:59:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36700 @ 0.00061046 = 22.4039 BTC [-] {3}

21:02:11 asciilifeform: no.

21:13:50 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/d81039aeca2faf776b4a10b87f1ee93d/tumblr_nnhnobQAX71tbvr5oo1_500.png << "no to racism, yes to welcome."

21:13:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnlW4p )

21:14:44 mats: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh6U77vWR4ZOe1XYEY this is gruesome

21:14:45 assbot: Terrible: Vendors Saw A Giant Whale Shark Into Pieces While It's Still Alive! (*Warning* Graphic) | New Video ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnm97C )

21:15:28 mats: https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonsfuckingcars TIL this is a thing

21:15:30 assbot: reddit.com: over 18? ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnmeZ5 )

21:18:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00060837 = 22.1142 BTC [-] {4}

21:21:07 shinohai: Holy shit I feel like a bzillionaire now.

21:22:35 fluffypony: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1439045534-20150808.png

21:22:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DylCdS )

21:32:03 ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231238 << and this is, imnsho, a huge part of why the whole sick scene has arrived at this terminally irresolvable level... because cowards. and why? pussy! haha... stuck in revolving door

21:32:03 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 19:42:46; chetty: nah, its just most couch it more politely

21:32:56 hanbot: i want to make sure i'm reading ml patching guide correctly: any/all patches desired must be 'applied' --before-- compile of reference implementation, yes?

21:33:10 shinohai: correct hanbot

21:33:34 funkenstein_: mats, thankfully my eyes saved by no flash player

21:34:13 funkenstein_: re: yes to welcome, i can't tell if she is african or arab

21:34:40 shinohai: ;;gettrust fluffypony

21:34:41 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask fluffypony!~fluffypon@unaffiliated/fluffypony. Trust relationship from user shinohai to user fluffypony: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=shinohai&dest=fluffypony | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=fluffypony | Rated since: Sat Apr 6 08:20:32 2013

21:40:28 ben_vulpes: mats: "vendors"?

21:40:29 mircea_popescu: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/572036/immigration-Britain-family-Nigeria-Home-Office-migration

21:40:30 assbot: Britain forced to let deported illegal immigrant family BACK IN | UK | News | Daily Express ... ( http://bit.ly/1DynpzI )

21:40:31 mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy

21:43:27 shinohai: No different here in the good 'ol USA. We have illegals all over the South. It gives the conservatives no end of angst.

21:43:49 *: shinohai which is fine by me.

21:43:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00061884 = 8.7875 BTC [+] {2}

21:44:24 ag3nt_zer0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7LNOCgHh5g

21:44:24 assbot: Jonathan Bowden-'Lilith before Eve' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnqBDo )

21:46:10 funkenstein_: how dare those people breathe air without having proper socialist papers

21:46:41 shinohai: Immigrants: https://i.imgur.com/iyBa76Z.jpg

21:46:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dyo9VJ )

21:47:02 mircea_popescu: there is a fundamental problem in proposing taxes be used for welfare, and then going around and redefining citizenship

21:47:30 mircea_popescu: seems dubious whoever paid the $$$ in question was all too thrilled about it being used to prop up the fortunes of even his own countrymen,

21:47:35 mircea_popescu: but random people... i dun see it.

21:48:05 shinohai: I feel lucky that the $$$ I paid in pays for my pension as is.

21:48:13 funkenstein_: i can understand not giving somebody soup at the soup line, but walking across a border seems ok to me

21:48:29 punkman: "In June, 15,254 migrants and refugees arrived on Lesbos, according to the Greek Coast Guard, compared with 921 the same month last year." << island has around 80k people, dunno how it's not overrun yet

21:48:31 shinohai: "No soup for you!"

21:49:12 funkenstein_: punkman, lol.. with that name I also can't understand how it's not overrun :)

21:49:40 mats: ben_vulpes: opportunists, eh

21:49:44 trinque: when you're talking about borders on the scale of a continent, talking about "illegal immigration" is yes, stupid

21:49:47 mircea_popescu: punkman the other sad fact of the matter is that africa is simply collapsing.

21:49:48 trinque: an unsolvable problme

21:50:23 mircea_popescu: derps prefer not to talk about this, but outside of chinese sponsored enclaves and whatever few others here and there, subsaharan africa is going to be a slightly larger yellowstone park in a decade or two.

21:50:25 trinque: "you can't enter this city without being in a resident's WoT" << sounds fine to me

21:50:43 shinohai: Anyone that has a realbitcoin node running that can try something for me this evening please PM

21:50:53 mats: fish are friends, not food

21:51:04 fluffypony: lol mats

21:51:19 punkman: "About 60 percent of the arrivals are from Syria. The next largest group, making up about 20 percent, are Afghans. But there are also arrivals from Somalia, Congo, Eritrea and Pakistan, among others."

21:52:16 mats: funkenstein_: plays as mp4 over here

21:52:33 ag3nt_zer0: http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/04/most-illegal-immigrant-families-collect-welfare/

21:52:35 assbot: Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare - Judicial Watch ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyoV4X )

21:52:47 ag3nt_zer0: anchor babies

21:53:09 mircea_popescu: i don't see how they wouldn't, practically. a drink's five bux in a bar, their monthly budget back home. what exactly would they do, not like they have any skills of any value

21:53:30 mircea_popescu: heck, most europeans don't.

21:53:51 shinohai: So pay them to gtfo

21:54:10 ag3nt_zer0: well yeah but it is still something to consider

21:55:22 mircea_popescu: the only way you pay someone to gtfo is with machine gun fire.

21:55:30 mircea_popescu: money pays to stay not to go.

21:55:58 ag3nt_zer0: there are plenty of bums who drink and it isnt at the bars

21:56:46 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 the immigrant isn't starting any multinational corporation with his 500 saved up pula, is the point.

21:58:40 ag3nt_zer0: most people in america have just been infantilized into retardation and dont have the will to see clearly without internalized guilt frameworks sabotaging them at every turn

21:59:35 trinque: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rNhRzKsM0rY/UTsAl7amlgI/AAAAAAAAAss/wNYn9_GnSiU/s1600/1babylon.png

21:59:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DypBqT )

21:59:40 ag3nt_zer0: and they will kill you if you point that out.. with their mommy superpowers

21:59:46 trinque: try illegally immigrating to that city...

22:00:19 ag3nt_zer0: hey trinque whats up man

22:00:25 trinque: good afternoon

22:00:26 mircea_popescu: trinque wasn;t a closed city afaik

22:00:36 trinque: mircea_popescu: ah, well maybe we could make some improvements

22:00:42 mircea_popescu: ...

22:00:45 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 funkenstein_ confirmed that the bug is only on my end, and not in bitcoind

22:00:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:00:49 trinque: I mean surely merchants are allowed in

22:01:03 trinque: my thought is simply that you should be vouched for by someone in a place before you're permitted entry

22:01:07 trinque: you know, such as here.

22:01:23 mircea_popescu: the golden crescent didn't have the "rights" approach to things.

22:01:36 mircea_popescu: you took your life in your hands. if some guy with more men and a whip felt like it... you were meat.

22:01:41 mircea_popescu: so best go there with guards.

22:01:53 mircea_popescu: but on this premise, sure, go wherever.

22:02:40 ag3nt_zer0: well up until the early 70s in america we were mostly taking white immigrants who simply assimilate easier and are more aligned with the extant culture... Teddy Kennedy changed all that

22:03:07 trinque: my point's simply that talking about immigration at the nation-state scale is an absurdly large, unsolvable problem

22:03:37 mircea_popescu: kinda the internal combustion engine changed all that.

22:03:41 trinque: mircea_popescu: I see your point; if you have power, you're safe wherever you like

22:03:47 mircea_popescu: once you can move that fast, "immigration" is a weird concept.

22:04:16 mircea_popescu: trinque sorta like the lion sees it. are yo uan illegal immigrant in the savannah ? well... it all depends. how good's your roar ?

22:04:24 trinque: haha

22:04:29 ag3nt_zer0: i want a nigger teleporter

22:04:44 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvr0puOihe1qmk4gro1_1280.jpg

22:04:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dyq8t5 )

22:05:26 funkenstein_: well i guess we have illegal plants and illegal numbers.. why not illegal people?

22:05:37 ag3nt_zer0: and not just to set on deport

22:10:03 hanbot: re ml: where are sha256sums for, eg, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html (patch)?

22:10:04 assbot: [BTC-dev] Removal of DNS Seed Mechanism. ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYYgY )

22:10:09 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: oddly enough, this opposite of this argument is used by the left to prop up amnesty and all these things... that that's exactly what they are doing... bringing great contribution... and, someone has to pick my vegetables Im told...

22:10:21 ag3nt_zer0: did anyone watch that GOP debate?

22:10:40 mircea_popescu: was it the first and biggest ?

22:10:55 trinque: I suffered through part of it; in general though, the outcome should by now be largely irrelevant to you.

22:11:26 ag3nt_zer0: yeah i guess it is

22:11:41 ag3nt_zer0: but just nice to see someone there on their own dime for a chnage

22:11:59 trinque: Trump's just froth on the top of the last real estate bubble

22:12:22 ag3nt_zer0: sure but its his money in his pocket

22:13:49 trinque: I'm not going to deny that the man has made some money, but neither he nor anyone else has any ideas.

22:13:57 ag3nt_zer0: maybe i am getting stupid, but I find it refreshing

22:14:12 ag3nt_zer0: it lifts a bit of the fog of conformity

22:14:26 trinque: this is a man who hosted reality tv, rememeber

22:14:30 ag3nt_zer0: yeah sure

22:14:33 trinque: *remember

22:14:36 ag3nt_zer0: but he did it for the money

22:14:46 ag3nt_zer0: i assume

22:16:23 trinque: far from being someone who can see the "big issues" with america, he benefited from all the worst of them

22:16:52 trinque: I don't expect anything good to come of him except a bitching monster truck rally sponsored by Brawndo

22:16:57 ag3nt_zer0: haha

22:17:09 ag3nt_zer0: could be right

22:17:34 ag3nt_zer0: it must be a sign of how low we've sink that I would consider that an upgrade

22:17:39 trinque: indeed.

22:20:11 ag3nt_zer0: so i got this meetup notice that there are some etherium frontier launch parties this weekend here in the Gay Area... one is a dress-up rainbows and unicorns party...

22:21:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21298 @ 0.00061886 = 13.1805 BTC [+] {3}

22:26:25 shinohai: ag3nt_zer0: etherium launch parties. srsly ?

22:26:42 shinohai: Of course they picked gay areas.

22:28:23 ag3nt_zer0: haha yeah... frontier launch i guess its called

22:28:31 ag3nt_zer0: lols https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVZdq5ErcOY

22:28:32 assbot: Caitlyn Jenner Struggles Wearing a Swimsuit - I Am Cait NEW Video - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DysAQa )

22:28:55 ag3nt_zer0: sorry for the trash haha

22:29:00 ag3nt_zer0: can't help it

22:29:15 ag3nt_zer0: its like a sore tooth as bill hicks said

22:29:26 ag3nt_zer0: cant stop touching it

22:32:20 ag3nt_zer0: remember this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbeu6TYT5LA classic...

22:32:21 assbot: Bill Hicks - El Rock es la música del diablo - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DysS9K )

22:32:44 shinohai: I'd get dirty w/ Caitlyn for 5 BTC

22:32:57 shinohai: ^ put dat shit on BitBet

22:33:38 ag3nt_zer0: haha

22:36:00 cazalla: ag3nt_zer0, how much make up to they want to cake onto that thing?

22:36:03 cazalla: do*

22:37:24 cazalla: i am sure you will be keen to see this movie too ag3nt_zer0 !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S8HVoWm9ec

22:37:25 assbot: See Elle Fanning as a Trans Teenager in the About Ray Trailer - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dytnk6 )

22:37:25 ag3nt_zer0: he learned from the best i think

22:37:38 ag3nt_zer0: haha thx

22:38:21 funkenstein_: ag3nt_zer0, Bill Hicks +1 thx, i skip the others ;)

22:39:05 ag3nt_zer0: cazalla: man...

22:39:47 ag3nt_zer0: funkenstein: tragic loss man... that's the "left" i used to love

22:40:06 ag3nt_zer0: i wonder what he would have to say about the left today...

22:40:06 trinque: he wasn't left

22:40:11 trinque: he just took a lot of drugs

22:40:17 ag3nt_zer0: well by his own admission he was

22:40:37 shinohai: funkenstein_: I will rate you for your help earlier, your feedback helped me fix this shit.

22:40:41 ag3nt_zer0: but i often think he might have had a naivety about the political spectrum

22:41:44 trinque: struck me as someone mistrusting big govt

22:41:55 funkenstein_: shinohai, many thanks, and happy to help :D

22:42:07 trinque: but otherwise I don't remember a specific mention of his political beliefs, aside from seeing it all as bullshit

22:42:26 shinohai: It was goddamned stupidity and paranoia on my part.

22:43:25 funkenstein_: oh? some secret routing table?

22:43:45 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT84nMCwHtY

22:43:46 assbot: bill hicks ripping bush - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dyu0du )

22:43:49 shinohai: Nope, files. Those little files appended with ~

22:43:54 ag3nt_zer0: here is where i remember that from

22:44:20 ag3nt_zer0: its contextual but I think he considered himself on "that side" if any side

22:44:29 ag3nt_zer0: these days I am certain he wouldnt

22:45:19 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sure, hating bush isn't being a leftist

22:45:23 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah I think he was just mistrustful of gvmt power in general

22:45:26 trinque: he said it, but yeah

22:45:29 trinque: that's just binary thinking

22:45:41 ag3nt_zer0: well thats what i meant about the political naivity

22:45:46 ag3nt_zer0: its strange

22:45:46 trinque: agreed

22:45:51 trinque: consider his audience

22:45:55 ag3nt_zer0: fueled by psychedelics

22:46:06 ag3nt_zer0: it is not uncommon for folks to end up on the left

22:47:43 ag3nt_zer0: something about the jesus would have been a socialist shit

22:47:52 trinque: I've done piles of psychedelics

22:47:57 trinque: I think that's just hippy nonsense

22:48:22 trinque: never after a trip was I moved to join hands and sing

22:48:48 ag3nt_zer0: well maybe its the music scene and the civil rights and the 60s and that whole ball of wax... that when people wake up on those substances, if they follow the "cultural

22:48:59 ag3nt_zer0: thread, they are led back to those "movements"

22:49:00 trinque: that's what I mean about binary thinking.

22:49:16 trinque: somebody takes a strong chemical, realizes that they've mindlessly followed this or that

22:49:39 trinque: so in their ignorance, they stick a minus sign in front of what they believed last and call it a revelation

22:49:46 ag3nt_zer0: yeah thats why I just got so disgusted with that side of things and those types of people

22:49:53 trinque: see: me listening to "satanic" metal at 14

22:50:26 funkenstein_: http://s171.photobucket.com/user/sisdecadence/media/subgenius_big.jpg.html

22:50:28 assbot: subgenius_big.jpg Photo by sisdecadence | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyuHn1 )

22:50:55 ag3nt_zer0: because for me the message was poignant and had a virile, solar, maculine type of force to it... just as much as it had the feminine nurturing aspects...

22:52:12 ag3nt_zer0: funkenstein: hehe that old bag... RAW and co... fun stuff

22:53:09 ag3nt_zer0: remember prometheus rising?

22:53:26 funkenstein_: i don' t think so?

22:53:48 ag3nt_zer0: i did that damn "visualize a quarter" experiment for a couple weeks and whne i finally found one, it was glued to the pavement

22:53:55 funkenstein_: you recommend it?

22:54:07 ag3nt_zer0: which was not one of the proposed outcomes... which was perfect for the message

22:54:13 ag3nt_zer0: hmmmm

22:54:16 ag3nt_zer0: i usd to

22:54:21 ag3nt_zer0: depends on where someone is

22:54:52 ag3nt_zer0: now when i read some of that stuff it seems only good for a certain stage

22:54:58 funkenstein_: i enjoy some trash scifi from time to time

22:55:00 ag3nt_zer0: yeah sure give it ago

22:55:07 ag3nt_zer0: hmmmm

22:55:14 ag3nt_zer0: well if you want fantasy/scifi

22:55:18 trinque: visualize a quarter?

22:55:35 ag3nt_zer0: from raw go with the illuminatis chronicles

22:56:04 funkenstein_: i didn't know robert anton wilson had something to do with the subgenius

22:56:08 ag3nt_zer0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Historical_Illuminatus_Chronicles

22:56:09 assbot: The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dyvjcm )

22:56:21 ag3nt_zer0: the earth will shake... the first one... i had a great time reading

22:56:32 ag3nt_zer0: 2nd, ok, 3rd, meh

22:57:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27050 @ 0.00061889 = 16.741 BTC [+] {4}

22:57:13 ag3nt_zer0: funkenstein: yeah maybe i am mistaken but i recall that he penned the principia discordia

22:57:29 ag3nt_zer0: or was somehow affiliated with that whole scene

22:59:06 trinque: forgive me, but I see a lot of this stuff as a sort of post-christian wankfest

22:59:14 ag3nt_zer0: prometheus rising is described as an operaters manual for the human brain and is a syncretism of learys 8 circuit brain model , korzybski's langugae theories, quantum gobbldygook, and other brain change shit

22:59:51 funkenstein_: "Rev. Ivan Stang originally planned on suing the authors for plagiarizing content from the Book of the SubGenius, but then realized that Principia Discordia had been written several decades earlier and that the Book of the SubGenius had technically plagiarized Principia Discordia"

23:00:05 shinohai: @ trinque anything post-christian is ok wid me

23:00:13 trinque: I am particuarly skeptical of simple models of consciousness

23:00:29 funkenstein_: trinque, ones that fit in head?

23:00:46 trinque: heh, yes

23:00:47 shinohai: We live in a simulation. I suspect mircea_popescu is funding it.

23:01:17 shinohai: *kek*

23:02:53 ag3nt_zer0: ok gonna go hack my monkey at the piano... good afternoon

23:03:10 trinque: later

23:03:18 funkenstein_: cheers

23:03:23 trinque: funkenstein_: yes, how could you have a complete model of the thing inside itself?

23:03:39 trinque: sure I could say in some particular context you could model an aspect of my behavior

23:06:04 trinque: you can reach different conclusions here, I think

23:06:48 trinque: the one that makes sense to me is that having an identity is distinct from saying you have a model of your own consciousness

23:06:59 trinque: whereas I hear people try to link the two all the time

23:07:39 funkenstein_: interesting, consciousness as identity. does every thread have a label?

23:08:38 trinque: explain the question?

23:09:54 funkenstein_: making the analogy to silicon computer terminology, processes have labels - identities if you will

23:10:40 trinque: ah

23:10:46 trinque: at least in my case, certainly not

23:11:47 trinque: it would seem that human beings have much more going on mentally than they're aware

23:12:10 mod6: <+hanbot> re ml: where are sha256sums for, eg, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html (patch)? << Hi, in the case of that patch email, the SHA1 sum is embedded in the file name. For example: asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip_192f7bc7c14c1d31c7b417c9cd77be51c4d255f2.patch -- if you were to download this patch, you could then run `sha1sum asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip_192f7bc7c14c1d31c7b417c9cd77be51c4d255f2.patch` and it sh

23:12:11 assbot: [BTC-dev] Removal of DNS Seed Mechanism. ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYYgY )

23:12:12 funkenstein_: it is interesting how studying computer science gives insights into our own heads

23:12:59 mod6: If that's what you mean. So in this case, SHA1 instead of SHA256, unless that's not what you were referring to.

23:13:19 mod6: <shinohai> funkenstein_ confirmed that the bug is only on my end, and not in bitcoind << ok thanks for the update

23:14:06 trinque: funkenstein_: makes sense to me that this would be useful for a brain

23:14:30 trinque: you go along absorbing knowledge, but don't always have time for conscious thought to intervene before action is taken

23:15:51 funkenstein_: absolutely. trinque have you read the carlos castenada series? some great vocabulary introduced to discuss consciousness

23:16:19 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231116 <<< mobile phones mang, it's not just you + her on the beach but you + 1000 beta faggots who follow her twitter/facebook/instagram + her on the beach

23:16:19 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 17:34:56; phf: well, you're not experiencing it directly, and it seems palpable here, in the real world. like i went to a beach a few weeks ago in americatown (ocean city, md) and the vibes are just nasty. sluggish girls with stooped shoulders avoiding any sort of eye contact or making nasty faces at you if you linger on them too long

23:16:32 trinque: funkenstein_: I have; entertaining, though yet again, I question any claims around having a system for consciousness

23:17:26 funkenstein_: one does not need a full manual to learn to tweek a few nobs I hope? :D

23:17:52 trinque: sure, his notion of 'seeing' for example

23:17:57 trinque: same thing a guy's trying to accomplish in zazen

23:18:11 trinque: or whipping himself with rope, or whatever

23:18:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00061905 = 12.0715 BTC [+]

23:18:45 trinque: which is a level of discipline over one's focus

23:19:12 funkenstein_: 1st attention, 2nd attention.. shift the assembly point

23:19:28 funkenstein_: zazen is new to me

23:20:35 trinque: the art of sitting... uncomfortably

23:21:20 funkenstein_: lol

23:21:55 funkenstein_: off for now laters --

23:24:06 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231260 <<< harden the fuck up, people gotta eat ya know!

23:24:06 assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 21:14:44; mats: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh6U77vWR4ZOe1XYEY this is gruesome

23:25:15 cazalla: how does one humanely kill a whale anyway? it's already outta the water, just get it over and done with and saw that baby up

23:27:06 trinque: thing was probably dead pretty quick from blood loss after being sawed in half

23:27:14 trinque: and probably already not doing great due to lack of oxygen

23:27:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00061905 = 9.781 BTC [+]

23:27:50 shinohai: cazalla: you sneak up behind it and give it whale tranquilizer and whisper "Shh .. It'll all be over soon."

23:28:46 trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VECtHHQjCqg

23:28:48 assbot: Cruel Nature: Lions eating their prey while it is still alive! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyynFx )

23:29:14 trinque: I'd rather get sawed in half

23:30:45 cazalla: this is probably the best/worst one i've seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpuFoid8J_Q

23:30:46 assbot: Pregnant wildebeest attacked by two hyenas! Real Wildlife! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyyvVr )

23:31:12 trinque: see? abortion is natural

23:31:51 shinohai: LOLZ

23:31:51 mats: I've never had shark before

23:31:53 trinque: damn that's gnarly

23:32:08 mats: bet it's delicious with soy sauce and ginger

23:35:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19741 @ 0.00060763 = 11.9952 BTC [-] {4}

23:39:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37068 @ 0.00060764 = 22.524 BTC [+]

23:41:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63460 @ 0.00061715 = 39.1643 BTC [+] {4}

23:42:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33223 @ 0.00060521 = 20.1069 BTC [-] {4}

23:52:22 ben_vulpes: <ag3nt_zer0> well thats what i meant about the political naivity naivte, you mean

23:55:23 ben_vulpes: <trinque> funkenstein_: yes, how could you have a complete model of the thing inside itself? << "to simulate a universe, you must have a universe"

23:56:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46950 @ 0.00061937 = 29.0794 BTC [+] {4}

23:59:54 cazalla: Ethereum down -74.25 % today, much investment!