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Transcript for 09-07-2015, 1882 lines:

00:00:04 solrodar: yes, but not used it

00:00:09 mircea_popescu: !h

00:00:09 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

00:00:28 mircea_popescu: solrodar consider register a signature with the bot.

00:00:33 mircea_popescu: registering*

00:00:58 solrodar: ok

00:01:32 mircea_popescu: also consider leaving a comment with the link and a functional email address on the fraudsters post.

00:01:54 mircea_popescu: (trying to make sure you can actually claim your prize - as it is anyone can in principle use a freenode nick)

00:12:03 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

00:12:21 gribble: Current Blocks: None | Current Difficulty: 4.940201493122746E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 364895 | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

00:33:08 BingoBoingo: !up solrodar

00:40:29 solrodar: !rate assbot 1 testing

00:40:29 assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.

00:40:35 solrodar: heh

00:43:27 ben_vulpes: !rate solrodar 1 doolb wen

00:43:27 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f2cf461b4bf2e335

00:44:34 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.solrodar.1:898d1835333b88e8a1aeafa9acb92bbad9b839fc1cf4135f8a2ea7ea45bf4c5f

00:44:35 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: doolb wen

00:45:38 BingoBoingo: solrodar: Now !up yourself

00:47:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00057586 = 6.3345 BTC [+]

00:48:14 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1194040 << sorry, totally useless

00:48:14 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:59:32; solrodar: http://imgh.us/bitcoin-dot.svg

00:48:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-07-2015#1192228 << see thread

00:48:27 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:11:38; ascii_field: my patience for 'help the mouse find the cheese' ran out when i was four

00:49:02 solrodar: it's not great I know

00:49:19 solrodar: but if that's the actual structure of the code then what else can you do?

00:50:01 shinohai: I need a projector to see it

00:50:06 asciilifeform: solrodar: gonna tell me that the structure requires putting, e.g., CWalletDB::ReadBestBlock a mile away from AppInit2, even though the former connects to ~nothing else~ ???!!

00:51:20 asciilifeform: and see example of CreateNewBlock

00:51:25 asciilifeform: if you had ~only~ this chart,

00:51:31 asciilifeform: could you say what it calls ?

00:51:39 asciilifeform: i'd be lying if i said yes

00:52:24 asciilifeform: not trying to be a spoilsport, but pointing out fact

00:52:47 solrodar: yeah some things are oddly positioned

00:52:58 trinque: it's gonna take manual arrangement

00:53:01 trinque: no way around it

00:53:08 asciilifeform: trinque: i really don't understand why

00:53:21 asciilifeform: the most obvious problems have nothing to do with shortest paths

00:53:36 trinque: and/or some really nice force directed graph thing

00:53:42 trinque: of which I've found nothing but shit

00:53:43 asciilifeform: another problem is abominably small print

00:53:52 asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.

00:54:13 solrodar: I don't think any amount of manual arrangement would shrink the overall size that much

00:55:28 asciilifeform: solrodar: tell you what. i'm not the one who put up the bounty (that was mircea_popescu) but i was the one who asked for the chart. if you can produce a dependency graph in s-expression format, embodying the info in this graph, ~and~ show me how to get same using open source utils, i will say the job is done

00:55:35 solrodar: there are so many edges that you need to leave space between the nodes to keep them from overlapping too much

00:55:59 asciilifeform: (the job won't be done, but it will become possible for me to do it)

00:56:25 asciilifeform: you know, there is no reason why all the letters have to be parallel with the bottom of the page

00:56:37 asciilifeform: plenty of room if you remove that limit

00:58:37 solrodar: I don't follow you

00:58:53 solrodar: what's parallel with what?

00:59:01 asciilifeform: the captions

00:59:03 asciilifeform: are all horizontal

00:59:08 asciilifeform: they don't have to be

01:00:55 solrodar: I don't see how changing that would give you more space

01:01:09 BingoBoingo: !b 9

01:01:10 assbot: Last 9 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2SZRD5W.txt )

01:01:23 asciilifeform: ferfuxxake

01:01:38 asciilifeform: i could draw the picture and explain. but then i will have drawn the picture

01:01:55 BingoBoingo: !b 2

01:01:55 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B3S7RR.txt )

01:02:56 solrodar: I mean it's the positioning of the boxes which is the problem

01:03:46 BingoBoingo: The problem is the thing being modeled, hence the bounty

01:04:16 asciilifeform: !up solrodar

01:04:35 solrodar: you can get dot to lay the graph out from top to bottom rather than left to right, but it won't be any better

01:04:52 asciilifeform: wasn't the idea

01:05:04 asciilifeform: idea is, to make the text sit down at whatever angle is needed

01:05:10 asciilifeform: 31 degrees if need be

01:05:11 asciilifeform: or 5

01:05:19 asciilifeform: to maximize space for the arrows.

01:06:38 asciilifeform: and other thing, if a node is a leaf of only one stem, it should be right next to it

01:06:41 asciilifeform: and not half the page away.

01:06:50 asciilifeform: there is room for this to be the case everywhere.

01:07:17 solrodar: yeah, I don't know why it doesn't always do that

01:07:28 solrodar: it's clearly doing it in some places

01:07:30 asciilifeform: because the tool is retarded

01:07:35 asciilifeform: i can use that tool too, you know.

01:07:48 asciilifeform: i don't need the garbage that comes out of codeviz or those other 3

01:07:52 asciilifeform: i need a usable graph

01:08:13 asciilifeform: this is probably more than 1 btc worth of work

01:08:25 asciilifeform: and so i'm not holding my breath waiting for it to get done by anybody.

01:08:25 solrodar: looks that way

01:09:16 solrodar: so if I provide the graph in s-expression format with instructions, do you have any specific plan for visualizing it?

01:10:09 solrodar: or you just want the data to experiment?

01:10:15 asciilifeform: data.

01:10:24 asciilifeform: but not only it, but a complete recipe whereby i can regenerate it.

01:10:38 solrodar: of course

01:11:46 asciilifeform: solrodar: might wanna ask mircea_popescu if he will award the prize for this item, which is not what he asked for, before putting in serious effort

01:12:43 solrodar: at this stage the only extra effort is to output it in sexpr format rather than dot format

01:13:07 solrodar: I'm already pulling the graph into a script to do some filtering

01:13:15 asciilifeform: neat.

01:13:23 *: BingoBoingo wonders how his 0.7.2 qt build ever worked on OpenBSD

01:13:26 asciilifeform: thank you for the effort, solrodar

01:13:49 solrodar: because if you include all the low-level functions and bignum classes and so forth in the graph then it'll be 10 times worse

01:13:55 asciilifeform: eheheheeh wat

01:13:59 asciilifeform: these are missing?!!!

01:14:03 asciilifeform: then entirely useless

01:14:05 asciilifeform: i want every token

01:14:11 asciilifeform: in *.cpp and *.h

01:14:13 asciilifeform: in that tree.

01:14:15 solrodar: you can have every token

01:14:21 asciilifeform: gotta have those.

01:14:25 solrodar: including std:: and boost::

01:14:29 asciilifeform: how did you even choose what to exclude ?

01:14:33 solrodar: just remove the filters

01:14:44 asciilifeform: where did the filter come from ?

01:14:50 solrodar: started with the standard library

01:15:28 solrodar: then cut out nodes with very high in-degree which appeared to be low-level functions

01:15:34 punkman: btw aren't all those stacked "using namespace std;" "using namespace boost;" statements a bad idea?

01:15:36 asciilifeform: would like a way of adjusting this

01:16:03 solrodar: yeah, it's just a list of regexes, you can change them as you like

01:16:07 asciilifeform: ok

01:17:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.

01:17:02 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:17; mircea_popescu: owner of node may choose to depend on it

01:17:08 BingoBoingo: solrodar: If your recipe works a narrative of it could be welcome qntra material

01:17:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what

01:17:38 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:23; mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.

01:17:54 solrodar: the one thing which is missing which you asked for is virtual function calls, which are only used in the keystore base class

01:18:11 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193951 << it's why they produce incompatible ones regularly. because no way to know if it happened or not yet, save for passage of time

01:18:11 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:19:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.

01:18:32 solrodar: they don't appear to be in the clang output

01:19:17 asciilifeform: solrodar: your tool doesn't see virtual functions ?

01:20:02 solrodar: it sees their implementations but it doesn't see calls to them via the virtual lookup mechanism

01:20:41 asciilifeform: solrodar: and how do you know that they are only used in keystore base class ?

01:21:07 solrodar: grep virtual *.h :)

01:21:49 asciilifeform: fair enough.

01:22:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'

01:22:46 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:32:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.

01:22:47 scoopbot_revived: S.MPOE: Trader's Delight. http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/08/s-mpoe-traders-delight/

01:22:47 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what << How often? A minute over a century and ignoring should be fine

01:23:09 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and if they decide that 'national s33k0000r1ty' requires a leap week ?

01:23:18 asciilifeform: to thwart 'financial terrorizm!!!1111'

01:23:27 asciilifeform: (aka bitcoin use)

01:23:47 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The time nerds burn the... Well QuickTrip and CVS were done so I guess WalMart

01:24:10 solrodar: !rate ben_vulpes 1 welcomed me to #b-a

01:24:10 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c4aa8cc715c6d75

01:24:36 asciilifeform: !rate solrodar 1 flow graphs

01:24:36 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ebf2651b9eb17fd5

01:25:06 solrodar: !v assbot:solrodar.rate.ben_vulpes.1:be7ce5a08c6698de2492a0c464338aa0a12c9c6070b6d7a9a6feffbe27ef763a

01:25:06 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for ben_vulpes with note: welcomed me to #b-a

01:25:08 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.solrodar.1:0a8d0ab5914fc2d41371f84fe250e40f9eab92aab2afdf54f7774066895e50c5

01:25:08 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: flow graphs

01:25:39 BingoBoingo: Leapweek would purely put USG time in the realm of clearly fiat time

01:25:48 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it was always fiat time

01:26:02 asciilifeform: just as argentine peso was fiat when it was still worth real money

01:26:20 asciilifeform: we haven't invented non-fiat time yet

01:26:48 BingoBoingo: Yes, even with the Romans fiat time. But poerverted like now dollar fiat time. At present still enjoy 1934 dollar fiat time

01:27:10 asciilifeform: (yes, decimation will teach you to tell epoch time within +/1 1000 by using the stars and moon. that does not change the essence of the fact that global epoch synchronized by machines is a fiat - specifically usg - creature)

01:27:17 decimation: asciilifeform: how is 'mean solar day is split into two parts; divided into 24 peices' fiat time?

01:27:31 decimation: you were the one arguing to ditch leap seconds

01:27:32 asciilifeform: it is fiat if i can't see the sun and rely on the kind to tell me

01:27:37 asciilifeform: *king

01:27:43 decimation: okay.

01:27:43 BingoBoingo: As far as I can tell time does not exist other than as a projection perpetrated by the brain

01:27:52 asciilifeform: this is a subtle point, granted

01:27:59 asciilifeform: and i don't expect everyone to grasp it immediately

01:28:04 decimation: time is absolute, space squishes and streches to nail to its strictures

01:28:45 decimation: asciilifeform: what does 'time outside of humanity' even mean?

01:28:51 BingoBoingo: decimation: Astronomical time is probelematic in that we do not know if LizardHitler mothership can subtly tow sun a few miles or give the moon a push

01:29:06 decimation: sure, he could do that

01:29:09 asciilifeform: decimation: 'outside of humanity' is a tall order. and not what anybody was asking for

01:29:21 asciilifeform: just needs to be 'outside' to the same extent bitcoin is (or naively appears to be)

01:29:38 asciilifeform: that is, massively resistant to organized diddling

01:29:46 decimation: what's the use of 'bitcoin outside of humanity'

01:30:06 asciilifeform: !s martian bank

01:30:06 assbot: 6 results for 'martian bank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=martian+bank

01:30:33 decimation: even martians could live with a 24-hour earth day

01:30:40 decimation: 'dude just tell us how to set our clocks'

01:31:22 asciilifeform: because they can all see the sun

01:31:26 asciilifeform: and feel its warmth

01:31:32 asciilifeform: but say they lived underground, and could not.

01:32:00 asciilifeform: the sun is almost literally blinding decimation, making the problem look far easier than it actually is for us

01:32:03 asciilifeform: pogo cannot see the sun!

01:32:10 decimation: aye, that's a problem

01:32:17 decimation: but quite separate than 'we depend on time'

01:32:23 asciilifeform: it cannot see the moon, or the stars

01:32:37 decimation: I guess I just can't see 'we need to sun' to be a huge limitation on any human endeavour

01:32:55 asciilifeform: in so far as you, i, and every other fella on the net wants to know 'what second' it is 'right now', we are dealing in usgtronics

01:33:00 asciilifeform: because there is no other known way to do it

01:33:06 asciilifeform: within any kind of serious accuracy

01:33:09 decimation: yes, but that's conditional

01:33:14 decimation: and we don't need serious accuracy

01:33:23 decimation: +/- 5 min would be fine

01:33:26 decimation: or even more

01:33:32 asciilifeform: actually we do

01:33:34 asciilifeform: because drift

01:33:38 decimation: easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon

01:33:44 asciilifeform: long enough at +/- 5m and we get >2h off

01:33:46 asciilifeform: and it's game over.

01:33:55 decimation: yeah but these aren't launching into space

01:34:00 asciilifeform: they sorta are.

01:34:01 decimation: can emerge, get reset

01:34:14 asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates

01:34:18 decimation: well, if that were a hard spec I would agree, need txco or ocxo

01:34:36 decimation: and there's no way around it, if actual human cannot set

01:34:37 williamdunne: From the looks of things, S.MPOE used to have a thousand BTC or so volume per day

01:34:40 williamdunne: Pretty solid

01:34:44 decimation: or we cannot build a trusted network of time sources

01:35:16 asciilifeform: my argument was that this apparently-unsolvable problem can be solved

01:35:22 asciilifeform: if a certain constraint is loosenes

01:35:56 decimation: you mean modifying the bitcoind to accept wider windows of blocks?

01:35:56 BingoBoingo: <decimation> easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon << This leads you to my world, where my mechinical autowinding watch is always perfectly accurate because I declare it so

01:35:58 asciilifeform: to have the concept of difficulty, nodes only need to know that time has passed, using a timebase that 1) is independent variable from aggregate hash 2) is prohibitively expensive to manipulate

01:36:18 decimation: BingoBoingo: can you use your winding to predict the sunrise

01:36:20 asciilifeform: i possibly have a scheme for this. but it won't help pogo, because this is no longer bitcoin

01:36:39 asciilifeform: right now i don't know how to help the pogo problem.

01:36:47 mats: recently S.MPOE has stood still

01:36:49 decimation: asciilifeform: you do, it involves hardware

01:36:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al were contemplating a surrender to ntp even.

01:36:54 mats: its a real bummer

01:36:54 decimation: unless you just want to give into ntp

01:36:55 BingoBoingo: decimation: Realtive to UTC, yes. I live about a minute in a half to UTC's future

01:37:10 asciilifeform: decimation: adding any hardware at all will raise the cost to where we no longer have anything over the phoundation.

01:37:19 asciilifeform: and their standard x86 turd boards.

01:37:29 decimation: well, if that's a hard spec, and 'launch into space' is a hard spec, the project is a failure

01:38:01 decimation: unless you are willing to accept the risk of a global ntp/router delay attack

01:39:23 BingoBoingo: to the extent ntp is depended upon by other implementations, it seems ntp servers may need to be polled. If they need to be polled the prolly ought to be polled at arc4random() intervals selecting arc4random() out of the pool each go

01:39:46 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my concern was blackholing

01:39:57 decimation: BingoBoingo: ascii's argument is that method is defeated if enemy controlls isp

01:39:57 BingoBoingo: Serious concern

01:39:59 asciilifeform: where every single ntp query gets picked up by your isp and replaced.

01:40:33 asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done

01:40:43 asciilifeform: it's a cheap bullet with our name on it

01:41:00 shinohai: T_T

01:41:16 decimation: I dispuse the 'nothing but pogo would fail'

01:41:27 decimation: plenty of shit is poorly engineered into depending on that kind of stuff

01:41:42 asciilifeform: say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past

01:41:42 BingoBoingo: Only way to truly defeat ISP is mock over the horizon radar which can force PCB to recieve all data as an involuntary antenna.

01:42:08 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past << Burn a Walmart

01:42:09 asciilifeform: eventually pogo drifts off into neverneverland

01:42:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you won't know that you have segmented into a parallel universe

01:42:44 asciilifeform: not like pogo has a screen, where it tells you that it is (or is not) receiving valid blocks

01:42:54 asciilifeform: for that matter, 'you' may be one of mircea_popescu's pogopregnated chixxx

01:42:58 asciilifeform: and have no idea what a block is.

01:43:05 asciilifeform: or what that box he plugged into your wall is for

01:43:31 BingoBoingo: Perhaps L1 and L2 pogo impregnators should herd the impregnated pogos

01:43:43 asciilifeform: all ~100 of us ?

01:43:44 asciilifeform: lol

01:43:47 decimation: no just pogo but all ntp clients

01:45:04 decimation: and such an error, if it ends up driving the clock off by several minutes, would be detectable in a variety of ways

01:45:13 asciilifeform: how?

01:45:18 BingoBoingo: NBC

01:45:20 asciilifeform: detecting an off clock requires another

01:45:23 decimation: well, predicting sunrise for one

01:45:28 BingoBoingo: ABC, FOX, et al

01:45:30 asciilifeform: again with the sun and stars

01:45:31 decimation: some other isp client finds his computer is 'off'

01:45:47 asciilifeform: again with the human eyes and hands.

01:46:15 asciilifeform: i specified a problem. what is the point of saying 'no, let's solve this other trivial problem'

01:46:18 decimation: your scenario would imply that no human looks at the time served by said isp

01:46:20 asciilifeform: i already know how to do that.

01:47:46 decimation: I'm emphasizing the sun because that's the policy by which time is defined

01:48:13 decimation: usg didn't make this policy any more than england did

01:48:30 asciilifeform: sure

01:48:58 decimation: and usg fucking with the way computers distribute time would ultimately be noticed by some innocent bystander

01:48:59 asciilifeform: but we don't have a mechanism of syncing n-bit counters with second resolution across a planet that ~doesn't~ operate at hitler's pleasure.

01:49:11 decimation: don't need second resolution

01:49:19 asciilifeform: decimation: one very obvious way for it to fuck, and be noticed, is to simply fail

01:49:50 decimation: as in, terminate all ntp services?

01:49:53 asciilifeform: aha

01:50:07 asciilifeform: from lack of money to pay the electric bill, say.

01:50:29 decimation: I would also note that if the pogo clock varies in a systematic way (constant frequency error)

01:50:40 decimation: it could be corrected

01:50:48 asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, it does not.

01:50:54 asciilifeform: and the reason is no mystery

01:51:01 asciilifeform: (interrupts vary quite unpredictably)

01:51:06 decimation: yeah, makes sens

01:51:37 decimation: so if the pogo syncs to a random node once per month and keeps time within a few minutes, it'll be fine

01:51:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31452 @ 0.00057008 = 17.9302 BTC [-] {2}

01:52:02 decimation: is it vulnerable? yes. more vulnerable than proof-of-work? yes, if in the hands of an idiot

01:52:09 asciilifeform: random node ?

01:52:13 asciilifeform: which also gets to drift ?

01:52:14 decimation: ntp node

01:52:37 decimation: most ntp nodes are tracable to some source (yes often usg) to two layers

01:52:54 decimation: but that usg clock is depended on by and awful lot of shit

01:53:09 decimation: if usg starts messing with gps it would be quickly noticed and shouted at

01:53:37 asciilifeform: decimation: there is no reason why ~all~ ntp servers proper would have to be diddled

01:53:46 asciilifeform: just the queries from known bitcoin nodes

01:53:47 asciilifeform: incl pogo

01:53:56 asciilifeform: not like it's a secret who they are.

01:54:07 decimation: agreed, but to selectively fuck with known bitcoin nodes would imply the deployment of an awful lot of hardware and expertise globally

01:54:12 asciilifeform: tomorrow hitler says 'anybody talking on 8333 gets timewarped'

01:54:16 asciilifeform: won't affect anything else.

01:54:22 decimation: hitler spends $100 mil to do it?

01:54:24 asciilifeform: it's deployed!

01:54:25 asciilifeform: already!

01:54:27 asciilifeform: srsly

01:54:35 asciilifeform: what do you suppose 'narus' makes ?

01:54:53 decimation: you think you could call up your local comcastic office, pretend to be hitler, and demand that a particular protocol be selectively fucked with?

01:55:00 asciilifeform: you - no

01:55:04 asciilifeform: the folks with the key to room 641a - yes

01:55:10 decimation: that's one chokepoint

01:55:12 asciilifeform: they don't work for crapcast either

01:55:18 asciilifeform: they come and go when they want.

01:55:19 decimation: no reason your ntp query need cross it

01:55:29 asciilifeform: it is merely an example

01:55:31 asciilifeform: of how it is done

01:55:37 decimation: yes, and I"m sure it's not cheap

01:55:42 decimation: nor easily mass deployed

01:55:45 asciilifeform: there is a 'room 641a' at every single major infrastructural junction

01:55:49 asciilifeform: certainly in nato-reich

01:55:56 decimation: not every isp office

01:55:57 asciilifeform: and similar in ru, cn

01:56:06 asciilifeform: every backbone.

01:56:24 decimation: so, don't cross backbones

01:56:33 decimation: or, cross several

01:56:35 asciilifeform: and the argument that some backwards isp, somewhere, may not be 'up to date', does not sway me.

01:57:10 BingoBoingo: I guess Bitcoin builds an Argentina, Phillipines, somolia, ISIS backbone and moves geographically

01:57:12 decimation: but your 'fucked with at the isp level' argument falls apart in that case

01:57:29 asciilifeform: at what level the fucking will be done, is debatable

01:57:47 asciilifeform: but that it is doable, and trivial, and can be carried out in such a way as to affect only known bitcoin nodes, seems obvious to me

01:58:14 decimation: I would agree that if the pogo needs to be launched into space, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it knew where it was on the internet topology, especially relative to other bitcoin nodes

01:58:29 decimation: asciilifeform: it's possible but again it requires expertise and equipment

01:58:42 decimation: comcast can barely keeps the lights running

01:58:48 asciilifeform: comcast - sure

01:58:50 asciilifeform: upstream - no

01:59:04 asciilifeform: and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in

01:59:11 asciilifeform: no imagination needed

01:59:17 asciilifeform: just mutilate packets if regexp matches.

01:59:49 decimation: what usg agency would perform this work domestically?

02:00:33 asciilifeform: at&t.

02:00:47 decimation: they ain't gonna do it for free

02:01:06 decimation: and 'fucking with bitcoin' is probably pretty low on usg's hitlist (not that it should be so low)

02:01:21 asciilifeform: how the hell would i (or anyone else) know where it is on what list ?

02:01:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's intel dept. - possibly

02:01:30 asciilifeform: me? no

02:01:44 asciilifeform: but i don't get to say 'it's low on the list, let's all sleep'

02:01:54 BingoBoingo: I doubt that after today. After the Chicom stockmarket sell embargo and NYSE glitch

02:02:23 decimation: neither do I. but assuming the pogo isn't a complete bust, someone's gonna have to evaluate the risk

02:02:26 asciilifeform: my point is that this kind of attack is not only the kind of thing usg specializes in, but pretty much the only thing they know how to do at all

02:02:58 decimation: how would you know that, if you don't know the hitlist

02:03:16 asciilifeform: can't know. only conjecture.

02:03:51 asciilifeform: based on existing nonsense coming out of the we-don't-know-how-to-break-rsa-yet-agency

02:03:58 asciilifeform: no idea what the ~other~ nsa does

02:04:07 asciilifeform: that gun hasn't publicly fired yet.

02:08:09 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

02:08:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00056898 = 6.2588 BTC [-]

02:09:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193991 << was linked as 'entomological sample' ! specifically, example of folks 'spinning their wheels'

02:09:23 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:39:06; mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.

02:10:01 asciilifeform: i bet if some helpful fella gave them a few kg of plastique each, they would put it to good use...

02:10:12 asciilifeform: just as mr stack probably would have

02:10:51 asciilifeform: and what, precisely, ought one expect of folks raised in a zoo?

02:11:08 asciilifeform: how do lions in the zoo get things, other than being 'given' ?

02:13:09 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188651 < a map that demonstrates your point: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/07/mapping-the-us-by-property-value-instead-of-land-area/397841/

02:13:09 assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 21:44:22; mircea_popescu: that's really the tension here : usians currently use the us like inept argentines: they huddle around the coast and pull their cocks.

02:13:10 assbot: A Map of the U.S. by Property Value Instead of Land Area - CityLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1TmJRPW )

02:13:37 asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.

02:13:39 decimation: "The total value of all the residential property in Kentucky ($300 billion) falls just short of the value of all the housing property in Queens ($317 billion). The housing value of the Upper East Side all by itself is greater than that of six states."

02:13:41 asciilifeform: hence folks live there.

02:13:48 decimation: aye

02:14:25 asciilifeform: it hands it out there for historical reasons (it is where the majority of the chump candidates live, given as that is where the anthill mega-cities are found)

02:14:41 asciilifeform: on account of having been built there back when actual honest commerce was a thing

02:15:44 asciilifeform: but point of fact is, to ~me~ kentucky may as well be pluto

02:15:52 asciilifeform: and to everyone i know.

02:15:53 BingoBoingo: decimation: Too be fair Kentucky isn't "flat" enough for intentive Monsanto'ing

02:16:06 decimation: asciilifeform: it's actually a pretty nice place

02:16:09 asciilifeform: aha

02:16:12 asciilifeform: pluto is nice too, i hear

02:16:19 asciilifeform: in its own way

02:16:46 decimation: nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country'

02:16:51 BingoBoingo: Kentucky is beautiful. Like Southern Illinois, but entirely politically divorced from Chicago aside from Obola

02:16:53 asciilifeform: because it is.

02:17:03 asciilifeform: because wtf can you live on there.

02:17:17 BingoBoingo: <decimation> nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country' << I prefer this arrangement

02:17:22 asciilifeform: that's what 'foreign country' even ~means~, historically

02:17:25 asciilifeform: that one is not wanted there.

02:18:01 asciilifeform: kentucky, or argentina, etc, literally don't need me in particular for anything but 'weight in pork'

02:18:03 asciilifeform: if that.

02:19:00 asciilifeform: doesn't mean that i dislike those places, or their inhabitants

02:19:05 asciilifeform: ar, in particular, i liked very much.

02:19:19 asciilifeform: and the inhabitants.

02:21:00 decimation: yeah, I get it, the meatwot is important

02:21:21 decimation: also being within 'reasonable transport' distance of good food, places of learning, etc

02:21:50 decimation: I predict that if the 'hyperloop' actually works (dubious) it would rot the suburbs around megacities

02:22:22 decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes

02:22:29 decimation: if not farther

02:24:21 decimation: !up The20YearIRCloud

02:24:34 The20YearIRCloud: It's alive!

02:25:35 williamdunne: What's alive?

02:25:56 The20YearIRCloud: Boy I had a crappy day, one of the renters called me and nothing would drain. Only to find out they've been parking a car on the main drain line. I offered to go out rather than my crew to take care of it, 3hrs later and $400 we've determined that it's all due to someone parking on the drain line and actually pushing it out of the fittings.

02:25:58 The20YearIRCloud: The chat!

02:26:33 asciilifeform: wai wat

02:26:39 asciilifeform: these drains are made of rubber ?!

02:26:53 Vexual: u charged 400?

02:26:57 asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: how is it even physically possible ?

02:27:11 asciilifeform: i, for instance, park on top of my house's drain pipe every single day.

02:27:12 decimation: yeah, like did they forget to use pvc cement?

02:27:15 The20YearIRCloud: loose soil, 3000lbs car sitting on it ~10hrs/day

02:27:23 asciilifeform: i know where it is, because the city excavated it last year.

02:27:31 asciilifeform: it is two metres under the asphalt.

02:27:35 asciilifeform: ah

02:27:46 The20YearIRCloud: there was a 8ft PVC section between two clay drain sections

02:28:00 The20YearIRCloud: This was 4ft under soil

02:28:02 decimation: clay drain? Like terra cotta?

02:28:10 The20YearIRCloud: yep

02:28:15 The20YearIRCloud: 110 year old drain

02:28:15 asciilifeform: where was this? africa ?

02:28:20 decimation: lul

02:28:28 The20YearIRCloud: still works somewhat well, but parking on it certainly hasn't helped things

02:28:42 The20YearIRCloud: Part of that $400 was to have a guy come out with a camera and inspect the line

02:29:20 Vexual: plus cakes for you while u lurk?

02:29:37 decimation: the 'loose soil' must be underneath the pipe

02:29:47 decimation: I would guess the drain is eroding the surrounding soil

02:30:21 The20YearIRCloud: Quite possibly, there's a concrete walkway that's actually sunk down about 6"

02:30:27 decimation: lul

02:30:28 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194417 << remember how the spiel went when the highways were built ?

02:30:28 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 02:22:22; decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes

02:30:48 Vexual: is it being dug up now?

02:30:50 decimation: asciilifeform: except the highways were ultimately not built

02:30:51 asciilifeform: the only thing new infrastructure is used for, in usa, is to pack in more chumps for same kind of life.

02:31:08 asciilifeform: there will simply be more folks who get to drive the obligatory 1-2 hr

02:31:13 decimation: md 200 should be a full freeway, connect with 95 on at least two other river crossings

02:31:33 asciilifeform: and if it were ?

02:31:42 asciilifeform: they'd just put 2x as many 500k houses in.

02:31:51 decimation: asciilifeform: yes but I'm convinced the reason that people live 2 hours away is because of zoning policy

02:32:16 decimation: could easily fit the entire metro area's population inside the beltway (affordably) if you could build 50 story highrises

02:32:41 decimation: but there's this weird need to have 'own country estate' in the us

02:32:59 asciilifeform: not weird at all

02:33:13 asciilifeform: ~i~ want to put as much distance as possible between own arse and these folks.

02:33:22 asciilifeform: it makes god's own sense to me

02:33:28 asciilifeform: that they would feel same way.

02:33:38 decimation: actually I agree with you, I feel the same way to some degree

02:33:52 decimation: my theory is that the space you had as a child 'imprints'

02:33:57 asciilifeform: aha

02:33:59 decimation: city kid can live in apartment for life

02:34:05 decimation: suburb kid needs a suburb

02:34:27 The20YearIRCloud: Not all people are like that, in Columbus they're building lots of 30-40 story apartments because people want em

02:34:39 asciilifeform: i grew up in a city

02:34:43 The20YearIRCloud: They're relatively cheap - $150k-$200k in really well-to-do areas, people want em because they're in the middle of everything and cheap

02:34:44 asciilifeform: but it had almost no traffic

02:34:46 Vexual: opposition leader is explaining to the royal commission here on tv, how to build roads that don't need fixing all the time

02:34:51 The20YearIRCloud: But personally, I'd never want to live there

02:34:52 asciilifeform: so traffic noises drive me batshit

02:35:01 asciilifeform: as do screaming morons

02:35:02 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: yeah but in columbus at least it is legal to build more than 5 stories

02:35:04 asciilifeform: we didn't have those, either

02:35:08 The20YearIRCloud: Correct, why it's cheap

02:35:14 trinque: I spent time on a large farm as a kid, cannot stand the population density of cities

02:35:19 trinque: so naturally I live in one

02:35:28 The20YearIRCloud: I can't wait to go back to a farm setting

02:35:51 trinque: just the background noise is irritating, like living in an engine room

02:36:02 The20YearIRCloud: Yeah

02:36:16 The20YearIRCloud: I don't like that, but i REALLY don't like not being able to stand on the back porch and not see anything

02:36:21 decimation: but this means that there are probably many people who are 'trapped' - desire more space between themselves and others - but cannot move away in order to keep a job

02:36:35 The20YearIRCloud: As it stands now ,if I do that here I see tall grass, a trailer, a half plywood house, then a large agricultural facility

02:36:38 trinque: The20YearIRCloud: ah man, best thing in the world is to not see another human in any direction

02:36:41 decimation: 70-80% of the population in cities ?

02:36:41 trinque: but to each his own

02:36:53 asciilifeform: what trinque said

02:36:55 The20YearIRCloud: Off the back porch on the farm, the closest house was 2mi

02:37:02 asciilifeform: except that i also want to not have to see them ever

02:37:12 decimation: asciilifeform: you should buy a farm in kentucky

02:37:25 asciilifeform: that sounds like actual work

02:37:27 asciilifeform: fuck that

02:37:48 The20YearIRCloud: We have areas here in ohio that have less population than many in kentucky

02:38:03 decimation: go 'full perelman'

02:38:14 asciilifeform: perelman, as i understand, lives off his mother's pension.

02:38:26 trinque: I'm thinking getting some land in Washington state might be ideal

02:38:37 decimation: trinque: not west of the mountains?

02:38:38 trinque: close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it

02:39:21 decimation: !up warptangent

02:39:23 decimation: !up Vexual

02:39:37 trinque: decimation: not sure, I've yet to spend time east of them

02:40:04 trinque: maybe there's something nice down 90 waiting for me

02:40:25 phf: i lived 8 hours north of anchorage for 6 months or so, working remote. when i get out of the house in the morning my ears would heart from the silence. best 6 months of my life

02:40:38 asciilifeform: ^

02:40:44 trinque: sounds lovely.

02:40:45 The20YearIRCloud: hurt or heart?

02:40:56 The20YearIRCloud: Silence? No wind or animals?

02:41:21 trinque: and the concentration that can be mustered (in my case at least) cannot be matched inside the engine room

02:41:21 phf: The20YearIRCloud: after a bit your start hearing the trees lightly creaking in the wind

02:42:08 The20YearIRCloud: I know on the farm it wasn't really ever quiet, there was always something

02:42:18 The20YearIRCloud: but going from that to the city is very, very hard

02:42:22 asciilifeform: another device that did not exist in the city where i grew up was: the subwoofer

02:42:23 trinque: sure, wind, bugs

02:42:32 trinque: but things your mind is quite used to

02:42:42 decimation: asciilifeform: especially mobile ones?

02:42:45 asciilifeform: any kind

02:42:53 phf: The20YearIRCloud: this was on denali highway which is a kind of a wind tunnel nearby from a glacier. most of it is freezing all the way till mid summer (though i don't know, i spent a winter there)

02:43:08 *: decimation has subwoofers, but attenuates by 30 dB at least

02:43:09 trinque: as opposed to the hiss of hydraulic brakes, blare of horns, rumble of combustion engines

02:43:16 decimation: I find it really annoying to have muddled bass

02:43:17 Vexual: alf had a crystal set

02:43:18 trinque: bugs I can tune out easily

02:43:22 asciilifeform: it isn't even that su didn't know how to make loudspeakers

02:43:36 asciilifeform: but that the idea of turning one on inside a block of flats...

02:44:12 phf: The20YearIRCloud: but when the wind dies down (mornings mostly) it's what i would call dignified solitude. mountains, quiet. lots of interesting people living within 100 mile range :>

02:44:44 The20YearIRCloud: hmm

02:48:24 Vexual: for a day of funk phreakers blowing holes in speakers, a discussion on silence is delicious

02:50:30 phf: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rw9Z6h3DDMo/TrTY5FJydDI/AAAAAAAAG4Y/m-uVqliksdA/s1600/denali%2Bhwy-6.jpg

02:50:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dNhE4G )

02:52:31 Vexual: you'd notice a bear from miles away

02:53:21 Vexual: and the inverse i guess

02:54:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193778 << the going rate in that market is a few hundred.

02:54:53 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:42:45; bagels7: i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis

02:55:17 mircea_popescu: an' for that matter the "basis" doesn't work like you imagine it does.

02:58:33 Vexual: hey funk i saw clinton play, guy made ozone, ya could smell it

02:59:58 phf: Vexual: kodiak bears stay away mostly. sometimes you get teenage bears looking for trouble, but i've only heard second hand stories

03:00:45 Vexual: what happenis if theres a bear looking for trouble? do you run away?

03:00:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193856 << yeah lol, that'll work better than befoar.

03:00:52 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:13:37; ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball

03:00:53 phf: bear mace :)

03:01:18 Vexual: kinda short range ??

03:04:42 phf: that specific breed of bears is tame. mostly you spook them and they run away, or you stay and wait for them to sniff and leave. after a few encounters like that the idea of macing a bear from close range doesn't seem particularly disconcerting

03:05:28 funkenstein_: Vexual, awesome :) where was the show?

03:05:42 Vexual: bluesfest byron bay

03:06:01 funkenstein_: were you singing?

03:06:16 Vexual: no, i din't even yell out

03:07:01 funkenstein_: lol yeah right

03:07:04 funkenstein_: this year?

03:07:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193867 >> pretty much. reddit being shut out of bitcoin is a sign of bitcoin working correctly.

03:07:11 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them

03:07:14 Vexual: few years back, i forget

03:07:34 mircea_popescu: reddit then creating a new dogecoin to serve its perceived needs is a sign of reddit staying reddit, which is top say fucktarded and unable to learn from its mistakes.

03:07:53 mircea_popescu: this is a necessity, given that reddit simply is "that collection of people at the age and level of stupidity of a redditard"

03:08:08 mircea_popescu: so, whatever, dogecon, keisercoin, auroracoin, gavincoin, blablacoin, let the kids have fun

03:08:31 funkenstein_: better than playing video games

03:08:47 funkenstein_: well, mostly ;)

03:08:52 mircea_popescu: the shitty videogames they have now, for sure.

03:09:07 mircea_popescu: also better than watching vr mj or whatever it is emi puts out

03:09:38 funkenstein_: reminds me, showed girl b-a channel yesterday. respones, wow cool.. people chat online who aren't just trying to get laid?

03:10:06 mircea_popescu: lol how did she meet you ?

03:10:26 funkenstein_: er, you got me there

03:11:15 mircea_popescu: who else has she met ? :D

03:13:09 funkenstein_: one never knows, could be more but not so few as indicating severe problems

03:15:01 mod6: height=363734 << wedged here for ~2 hours.

03:15:28 mod6: I don't see any attempt to reorg... but i'm gonna increase the db locks * 2 and see if that changes anything.

03:15:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194085 << svg is svg yo. not had to fix that part

03:15:58 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 00:53:52; asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.

03:16:17 mircea_popescu: mod6 iirc asciilifeform saw the same wedge spot for a bit.

03:16:34 mod6: yeah, im fairly sure that he did.

03:17:08 mod6: asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?

03:18:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194155 << unreliably. maybe they decide to stop.

03:18:31 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.

03:18:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second.

03:18:58 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what

03:19:05 mircea_popescu: this is a power not to be neglected in the slightest.

03:19:30 mircea_popescu: it already allows me to publicly mock all sorts of traditional power structures, reject nist, what have you.

03:21:20 decimation: wait, to be anti-leap second is to be pro-'usg controls time'

03:21:44 decimation: the policy becomes 'time is what my clock in my fortress says' not 'what the sun does'

03:21:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194169 << i didn't misunderstand it. i simply do not credit it at all, just like i don't credit that an object could be arbitrarily pink but shapeless.

03:21:46 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:22:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'

03:22:20 mircea_popescu: decimation there is no "sun does" immediately. sun doesn't. what there is, is, "here's what i say the sun does".

03:22:34 decimation: umm okay

03:22:51 mircea_popescu: the original leap second is http://fraudsters.com/2015/this-is-why-medicine-is-not-a-liberal-profession-but-a-servile-career/#selection-229.0-229.213

03:22:52 assbot: This is why medicine is not a liberal profession, but a servile career on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2i8dP )

03:23:22 BingoBoingo: <trinque> close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it << I would not mind life in Duquoin Illinois if I could support myself there. Trains to Chicago and St Louis, bars walkable. Secondary State Fair. Just everything else... ick

03:23:51 decimation: the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun

03:24:01 funkenstein_: the concept of "fiat time" is interesting. If we are going to think about what is money ourselves instead of believing the guy in the funny hat, should we also do the same when asked what time it is?

03:24:37 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ turtles all the way down.

03:24:52 decimation: funkenstein_: sure, but note that humanity has a pretty solid informal standard going, has for a long time

03:24:57 mircea_popescu: decimation if this facetious "precision" were the point, it wouldn't be t here and t+1 hour a km away.

03:25:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194574 << moved the clock. hence the clock thread.

03:25:04 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:17:08; mod6: asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?

03:25:05 mircea_popescu: it's not precision. it's political influence.

03:25:22 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << the going rate in that market is a few hundred. << I read the original message as hope for a winning "ticket"

03:25:25 decimation: okay, if it's political influence, what's the policy?

03:25:31 mircea_popescu: there is no policy.

03:25:39 mircea_popescu: "do what we tell you - it's a useful habit for later"

03:25:43 funkenstein_: decimation, not really.. the adjustments are to sync the cycles together

03:25:44 mircea_popescu: it is. just, wrong source.

03:25:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194577 << if mircea_popescu has figured out how to 'reject usg time', i'm all ears.

03:25:46 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:18:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second.

03:26:04 decimation: funkenstein_: you mean leap seconds?

03:26:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if bitcoin nodes agree to any different time, it's rejected.

03:26:16 asciilifeform: how are they to agree ?

03:26:18 mircea_popescu: again, the possibility is here more important than the actuality.

03:26:20 funkenstein_: yeah. the mayans had a better system

03:26:21 mircea_popescu: never you mind.

03:26:25 asciilifeform: we haven't invented the mechanism !

03:26:34 asciilifeform: 'if enemy comes, we will shoot him with death ray'

03:26:36 decimation: funkenstein_: you are confusing calendar and clock

03:26:38 asciilifeform: 'what death ray'

03:27:06 mircea_popescu: you've just described "atomic balance"

03:27:12 mircea_popescu: or w/e it's called.

03:27:43 asciilifeform: i described the 'death ray balance' envisioned by tesla.

03:27:55 asciilifeform: who, as far as we know, did not actually have a working electron cannon

03:28:01 asciilifeform: but 'so close' in his own mind.

03:28:14 *: BingoBoingo notes that in most client software not handling leap seconds seems safe http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150628132834

03:28:15 assbot: Handling Leap Seconds the OpenBSD Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2iq4n )

03:28:24 mircea_popescu: no, the thing they spent a trillion to build missiles and subs

03:29:06 decimation: there are three important periodic behaviours. the orbit of the earth about the sun, (lesser - moon about the earth), the rotation of the earth about its axis, and the vibration of cesium atoms. leap seconds syncronise earth's rotation with cesium. calendar synchronizes earth's rotation with its orbit

03:29:12 BingoBoingo: <decimation> the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun << No, it is because Sun and Cesium disagree

03:29:32 asciilifeform: decimation: vibrations of atom don't come with indices. nor do sunrises.

03:29:37 asciilifeform: is this such a difficult concept ?

03:29:40 decimation: nope, nor do years

03:29:43 asciilifeform: aha

03:29:47 decimation: it's not to me

03:29:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194235 << i really don't think that's the primary mission for it

03:29:49 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:34:14; asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates

03:30:19 funkenstein_: decimation, you miss the long cycle, but thanks for the distinction between leap second and leap year

03:30:28 decimation: yet, I can use cesium to predict sunrises and use sunrises to predict cesium

03:30:40 asciilifeform: i must confess that i'm not 100% clear on the primary mission. but did have the distinct impression that it involves making use of net jacks that don't have literate and attentive humans attached to them

03:31:38 mircea_popescu: the idea was to make use of net jacks in people's houses

03:31:40 mircea_popescu: ~people~s.

03:31:46 decimation: if we were to ditch leap seconds, I would need to know the 'current delta' to predict cesium from sunrises and vice versa

03:31:58 *: BingoBoingo watches "Gladiator(2000)" for the first time. Damn the Nordic system sucks.

03:32:01 mircea_popescu: "so you'd like to learn more about bitcoin ? here's a pogo and here's a webpage, make it work"

03:32:23 asciilifeform: and what of cuckoldry ?

03:32:44 asciilifeform: ethernet jack in broom closet ?

03:32:46 decimation: "Step one: configure an accurate ntp server. if you don't know how to check the time, ask your parents"

03:32:50 asciilifeform: that's where $20 pogo really shines

03:33:01 *: asciilifeform head-desks

03:33:47 decimation: or alternatively "Step one: after booting, ensure the pogo has acquired accurate time"

03:34:31 decimation: asciilifeform does have a good point, it seems like a 'sealed system' would have a wider application

03:34:48 asciilifeform: the ~only~ advantage pogo has over pc

03:35:12 asciilifeform: is that you can stuff it in broom closet, camouflage with old bum rags, get on motorcycle and never see the place again.

03:35:44 decimation: better yet, build one in the shape of a power strip (with wifi) and install in local starbucks

03:36:01 asciilifeform: sorta like what aaron swartz went around doing before he was hanged

03:36:15 asciilifeform: decimation: no upnp in starbucks

03:36:19 asciilifeform: gotta have that external 8333

03:36:28 decimation: yeah that's a major sticking point

03:36:35 decimation: upnp hardly works anywhere

03:36:42 decimation: other than as an orifice

03:36:51 asciilifeform: the most problematic aspect, possibly

03:36:59 asciilifeform: i suspect that perhaps 1 in 5 pogos will actually run

03:37:04 asciilifeform: solely on account of this

03:38:30 decimation: you might be able to hijack "STUN" servers meant for sip

03:38:38 decimation: but they might only tunnel udp

03:38:50 asciilifeform: lol, fat lot of good that does.

03:39:07 BingoBoingo: By argument via Hollywood /me has no idea how Romans beat Spartans to conquer Greece

03:39:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12812 @ 0.00056898 = 7.2898 BTC [-]

03:40:19 decimation: http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/interactive-connectivity-establishment

03:40:20 assbot: Interactive Connectivity Establishment | Internet Society ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cqdong )

03:40:49 decimation: https://code.google.com/p/rfc5766-turn-server/

03:40:50 assbot: rfc5766-turn-server - High-performance free open source TURN and STUN Server implementation. VoIP media traffic NAT traversal and gateway. TURN client library included. - Google Project Hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqdsDz )

03:41:01 decimation: ^ would create a choke point of course

03:41:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i said, this wasn't to my mind related to the p2p relay thing

03:41:13 asciilifeform: umm let's ~not~ tunnel through microshit ??

03:41:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha i know

03:41:37 mircea_popescu: we will never have enough of these to simply throw away either

03:41:39 mircea_popescu: you realise

03:41:45 asciilifeform: throw away, no

03:41:47 mircea_popescu: this is a $100 dollar gift, why make it to idiots.

03:41:54 asciilifeform: deploy in places where pc cannot work - yes

03:42:14 mircea_popescu: well, an item has the advantage that it can be used as it can be used, rather than as can be intended.

03:42:15 asciilifeform: also 'never say never'

03:42:27 mircea_popescu: but the idea throughout, at least in my head, was to have something to give new bloods

03:42:42 asciilifeform: at some point i ~will~ locate the pieces to make something like pogo en masse

03:43:16 asciilifeform: hell, 'hootoo' would be it right now if we could sit down in 32m.

03:43:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194264 << eh get out.

03:43:35 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:40:33; asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done

03:44:29 asciilifeform: i'll bite. what else will perma-wedge if usg clock moves 2h into the past for a day ?

03:44:49 asciilifeform: it can be passed off as 'botched daylight savings' in my locale

03:45:21 decimation: bank, local merchant shop cash register, games, winblowz, local govt, etc

03:45:32 asciilifeform: winblows - reboot as always

03:45:33 decimation: and that's the unimportant shit

03:45:39 asciilifeform: merchant shop - fails every other day

03:45:47 mircea_popescu: decimation: what usg agency would perform this work domestically? asciilifeform:at&t. << top kek

03:45:50 decimation: what do trains, planes rely on?

03:45:56 asciilifeform: all of it is reparable because it customarily breaks every morning six times before breakfast

03:46:05 asciilifeform: like all of fiatworld

03:46:12 asciilifeform: esp on winblowz

03:46:15 mircea_popescu: you're moving your goalposts asciilifeform

03:46:20 asciilifeform: ?

03:46:29 mircea_popescu: yes the shop fails every other day.

03:46:32 mircea_popescu: it still would fail.

03:46:48 asciilifeform: btw this is not uncommon where i live

03:47:10 asciilifeform: quite often 'creditcard machine ain't working today. but we dusted off this carbon paper and press...'

03:47:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @ 0.00056898 = 5.0571 BTC [-]

03:47:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194389 << argentine govt does exactly same stupid failure mode bs

03:47:59 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 02:13:37; asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.

03:48:02 asciilifeform: at any rate, down in the log, i point out that it would be absolutely trivial to serve diddled ntp solely to known btc nodess.

03:48:06 mircea_popescu: borrows in europe, distributes loot to people in capital

03:48:17 asciilifeform: where else? in pampas, to the pampas cats?

03:48:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck do these schmucks need as much as a cigarette butt ?

03:48:23 mircea_popescu: give it to the people going deeply inside.

03:48:27 decimation: I think "absolutely trivial" is a bit of an overstatement

03:48:30 mircea_popescu: that way you won't lose wars with fucking peri

03:48:32 mircea_popescu: peru*

03:48:44 asciilifeform: l0l!

03:48:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. like the us did it back when it mattered.

03:49:00 mircea_popescu: 50 acres and a mule, if you swear to never go to town

03:49:16 asciilifeform: that was before monsanto and winblowz-traktor

03:49:17 asciilifeform: aha

03:49:30 mircea_popescu: they wanna be independent

03:49:38 mircea_popescu: and "patria doesn't give blowjobs" bs

03:49:43 decimation: those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today

03:50:30 mircea_popescu: one of the lulziest electroal slogans here (in the line of "podremos vivir mejor", of course) was... "hay mas futuro"

03:50:35 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

03:50:36 mircea_popescu: hipster country.

03:50:55 mircea_popescu: who the fuck even comes up with this shit. "there's future left"

03:51:06 decimation: sounds like an obamaism

03:51:07 asciilifeform: 'no there isn't'

03:51:18 decimation: "we are the ones we have been waiting for"

03:52:05 decimation: "things are getting better comrades"

03:52:49 mircea_popescu: "that's not the plumber in your mother's bedroom"

03:52:53 mircea_popescu: actually this could be a film.

03:52:56 asciilifeform: http://image1.thematicnews.com/uploads/topics/preview/00/01/24/91/a5825d35bb.jpg

03:52:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2jLbs )

03:55:21 decimation: asciilifeform: what does it say?

03:55:56 asciilifeform: 'living's become better, living's become merrier'

03:56:04 asciilifeform: famously attributed to stalin circa '37

03:56:39 decimation: heh yeah

03:57:16 mircea_popescu: well... keynesian logic. if consumption drives production then clearly the economy's never been ion a better shape

03:58:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194583 << would like to see this expanded if mircea_popescu has time.

03:58:16 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:21:46; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194169 << i didn't misunderstand it. i simply do not credit it at all, just like i don't credit that an object could be arbitrarily pink but shapeless.

04:00:54 *: asciilifeform bbl

04:09:45 Vexual: so if we have sealevel sattelites that don't move...

04:14:07 BingoBoingo: Fuck, in Gladiator (2000) there are plain tire tracks on the cravel roads

04:14:24 Vexual: !g filipino black eyed peas

04:14:43 Vexual: ;;g filipino

04:14:43 gribble: Error: "g" is not a valid command.

04:15:23 BingoBoingo: <decimation> those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today << Please point me to 50 US acres that are truly abadon. No "owner" no renter, no Sheriff.

04:15:36 Vexual: you mean like a cinemagraphical error?

04:15:59 BingoBoingo: Especially the last point because sheriff usually enforces abadon remaining verboten

04:16:08 BingoBoingo: Vexual: More like lazy cinema

04:16:24 Vexual: the eyes have it

04:21:07 decimation: BingoBoingo: there's plenty of 'wasteland' out west

04:21:14 decimation: but certainly has sheriff

04:21:42 BingoBoingo: WHich is problem. Even if you shoot sheriff, there exists deputy

04:21:49 funkenstein_: sheriff shows up sometime after you put something valuable there

04:22:48 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Nah, they don't want hippies, chase away merely warm bodies

04:23:39 *: funkenstein_ recalls being woken "can't sleep here" on various travels

04:25:20 BingoBoingo: Anecdotally Urban US squats safer than rural US squats

04:25:57 funkenstein_: read my mind; i was just going to ask about when will squat culture arise

04:31:41 BingoBoingo: Squat conture arised in USia 60 years ago

04:32:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00057357 = 3.212 BTC [+]

04:32:38 funkenstein_: somehow it appears stronger in continental europe

04:34:01 funkenstein_: could also be who i was rolling with at the time

04:35:36 funkenstein_: 1950s eh?

04:39:16 BingoBoingo: Continental Europe had a head start

04:39:29 BingoBoingo: See Christiantown

04:48:42 decimation: I'm watching a youtube of some uk guy who decided to hop freight trains in canada

04:49:04 decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FYjiGEtsU

04:49:05 assbot: Brave Dave's Canadian Catch Out - Freight Train Hopping In Canada - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MgHJF2 )

04:50:36 decimation: he decides to be a hobo for fun I guess

05:15:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.00057362 = 28.2795 BTC [+] {2}

05:16:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5589 @ 0.00057586 = 3.2185 BTC [+]

06:50:25 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2623&pr=1

06:50:26 assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1eI4MO8 )

06:58:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00057586 = 2.8793 BTC [+] {2}

07:11:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00057778 = 16.1282 BTC [+] {4}

07:12:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3136 @ 0.00057877 = 1.815 BTC [+]

07:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00056751 = 12.2015 BTC [-] {2}

07:35:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22641 @ 0.00056664 = 12.8293 BTC [-]

08:12:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00056072 = 3.0279 BTC [-] {2}

08:34:28 shinohai: https://np.reddit.com/user/Bitcoin_SS <<< rofl this is the funniest shit evah

08:34:30 assbot: overview for Bitcoin_SS ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqIyLv )

08:40:03 punkman: not bad

08:41:10 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?

08:41:10 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:59:04; asciilifeform: and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in

08:41:16 jurov: shiffing, yes.

08:41:25 jurov: *sniffing

08:42:06 jurov: but actively intercepting and replacing individual packets is much more complicated effort

08:42:33 jurov: so far only china managed that with any degree of success

08:43:47 BingoBoingo: shinohai: If you must link to reddit no np.reddit links, for they are a trap to preserve their platform

08:44:12 jurov: and it needs so much manpower that someone from "terrorist-packets-on-backbone-diddling-dept." would already spill the beans

08:44:34 shinohai: I fergotI forgot i was laughing so hard BingoBoingo

08:44:53 shinohai: It is EXACTLY like them

08:49:00 jurov: say, let's put time.windows.com or google's addy among there and make the occassional packet look like systemd or windows emit

08:49:26 jurov: what is usg to do? risk diddling time on throngs of linux/windows machines?

08:50:06 jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?

08:51:24 jurov: or make buth m$/google move the servers to different IPs? no way that wouldn't get noticed, actually would be useful signal for us

09:00:24 punkman: BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2623&pr=1 << is that part of a series or one-off?

09:00:25 assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqLsQ9 )

09:00:34 BingoBoingo: punkman: Both?

09:21:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2013 @ 0.00056826 = 1.1439 BTC [+]

09:32:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056826 = 8.5807 BTC [+]

09:56:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13143 @ 0.00056455 = 7.4199 BTC [-] {2}

09:57:41 punkman: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/silvio-berlusconi-sentenced-to-3-years-for-bribing-italian-senator

09:57:42 assbot: Silvio Berlusconi sentenced to 3 years for bribing Italian senator | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqY7mJ )

09:57:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11917 @ 0.00055623 = 6.6286 BTC [-]

09:58:31 punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."

10:01:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40689 @ 0.00056581 = 23.0222 BTC [+] {3}

10:10:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4917 @ 0.00055282 = 2.7182 BTC [-] {2}

10:14:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.0005789 = 2.5761 BTC [+]

10:28:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9949 @ 0.00055098 = 5.4817 BTC [-] {2}

10:29:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48629 @ 0.00054501 = 26.5033 BTC [-] {4}

11:40:25 punkman: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228440.700-dotdashdiss-the-gentleman-hackers-1903-lulz.html

11:40:26 assbot: Dot-dash-diss: The gentleman hacker's 1903 lulz - tech - 27 December 2011 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaI79R )

11:48:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055023 = 8.1709 BTC [+]

11:59:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00054715 = 3.2282 BTC [-]

12:40:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055492 = 11.2649 BTC [+] {2}

12:51:14 thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu On Qntra you said, "This is a resource war and you people are poor." Well some poor redditard was venting this morning and in his rage said, "I wish I had the money to...do xyz". Ironic how denial turns to anger, almost like stages of grief.

12:51:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:53:16 thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3cnobx/regarding_raising_the_1mb_block_size_limit_just/ << for those interested in some more "hard fork lulz"

12:58:26 punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."

13:01:19 shinohai: rofl

13:01:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00056266 = 4.5013 BTC [+] {2}

13:01:57 punkman: yeah because people are gonna stay on your stupid fork of course

13:12:22 punkman: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/bitfury

13:12:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhPSrH )

13:35:42 shinohai: np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3cnw86/bitcoiners_throws_temper_tantrum_as_miners_fail/

13:36:36 kakobrekla: 1 hour 52 minutes ago 974.7 kB ?

13:43:36 jurov: ;;bc,tslb

13:43:37 gribble: Error: "bc,tslb" is not a valid command.

13:43:43 jurov: ;;tslb

13:43:50 gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.

13:46:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83123 @ 0.00054175 = 45.0319 BTC [-] {2}

14:10:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12668 @ 0.00054166 = 6.8617 BTC [-]

14:27:19 punkman: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3co3x5/safello_now_buys_4611_sek_and_sells_at_2388_sek/

14:27:20 assbot: Safello now buys @ 4611 SEK and sells at 2388 SEK per Bitcoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1NR5VOT )

14:28:30 punkman: http://i.imgur.com/PHjb0ah.png

14:28:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NR66d4 )

14:36:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4206 @ 0.00054166 = 2.2782 BTC [-]

14:45:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << 'quantuminsert' and 'ferretcannon', just off the top of my head (from the snowden papers)

14:45:45 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?

14:46:09 asciilifeform: iirc there were other 'postbox names' in there, amounting to the same idea

14:48:06 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194795 << feed diddled ntp to ~known public bitcoin nodes~.

14:48:06 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:50:06; jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?

14:48:41 asciilifeform: it won't happen every day, naturally. just when 'national s333k000r1ty' requires a stinkbomb dropped on the network - to keep a certain tx from getting relayed, say

14:48:47 jurov: how do you know ntp is from the bitcoin node and not from other machine on the same network?

14:49:06 asciilifeform: naturally, you don't

14:49:41 decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/us/south-carolina-representative-jenny-anderson-horne-flag-speech.html < http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-02-2015#1025531

14:49:44 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7gBU )

14:49:44 assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 03:34:05; mircea_popescu: In addition, anti-fascism was never to have as cheap as today. Previously, he could cost you your life, today it costs no more than lip service among peers - and heard to this, the exclusive circle of the upright, decent, brave. The fighters against law form the peerage of enlightened society. Or even a shot polemical: Here is an indulgence trade takes place; the moral superiority can be acquired sim

14:49:44 asciilifeform: i can envision other scenarios

14:49:45 jurov: so, instruct chumps "scream if you notice weird time"

14:50:35 asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers

14:50:58 decimation: asciilifeform: read the description of room 641a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

14:50:59 assbot: Room 641A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7okT )

14:51:10 asciilifeform: jurov: idea is that no one will 'notice weird time', nodes will just silently drift off the network

14:51:11 decimation: reportedly it was a passive beam splitter

14:51:24 decimation: how you gonna delay packets with that

14:51:54 asciilifeform: decimation: i can't comment on what's in the other '641a's.

14:51:59 asciilifeform: or for that matter, in the original

14:52:09 asciilifeform: (today, that is)

14:52:10 jurov: asciilifeform: and my idea is that pogos will be together with other computers behind the NAT

14:52:32 jurov: and these other computers can server as canary, users *do* notice time off by hour

14:53:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00054579 = 13.0171 BTC [+] {2}

14:54:07 asciilifeform: jurov: gotta understand, my allergy to ntp is more of a 'reason from causes, not from purposes'-theorem application

14:54:21 asciilifeform: than dread of a specific boojum

14:54:36 jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?

14:54:42 asciilifeform: i believe that it is wrong for a large network of bitcoin nodes to depend on a usg institution.

14:54:55 asciilifeform: i am only dreaming up specifics because asked to

14:55:09 asciilifeform: since everybody seems to insist on doing mental gymnastics to come to peace with using ntp

14:55:26 jurov: and i keep telling you they already do cuz internet *is* usg institution

14:56:15 asciilifeform: once 'gossip' is running, the only thing enemy will be able to do is pull plugs

14:56:31 jurov: jam tomorrow

14:56:35 asciilifeform: so in that sense it is 'usg institution' in exactly the way my house, and my earthly carcass, are

14:57:07 asciilifeform: jurov: the particular example, 'gossip', ~is~ jam tomorrow, yes. but it is possible to run encrypted tunnels of various sorts even today.

14:57:14 asciilifeform: enemy is stuck pulling plugs.

14:57:38 asciilifeform: ntp, on other hand, is a pants-down unauthenticated plaintext (for reasons explained previously, this cannot really be helped)

14:59:27 jurov: we're stuck with ntp since you rejected everything other short of bitcoin reimplementation

15:00:19 jurov: if we agree to ship with pogos also 100 of authed ntp servers, I'm all for it

15:00:28 asciilifeform: jurov: probably

15:00:33 jurov: (provide, i mean)

15:00:44 asciilifeform: gotta think of a way to sanity-check it

15:01:44 jurov: just that in your scenario of hostile isp and everything, they will be yet more easy to block than time.windows.com

15:02:18 asciilifeform: hence sanity-check rather than reliance

15:02:28 jurov: aha

15:03:36 asciilifeform: i've also thought about personally retrofitting the pogos with the crystals

15:04:28 asciilifeform: (it also needs a capacitor or li battery on the power input to the rtc)

15:05:21 asciilifeform: could probably do several hundred in a weekend, if they were sent to me disassembled

15:06:55 asciilifeform: i also learned last night that chinese rtc modules, complete with battery, are about fifty cents in quantity

15:07:02 asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo

15:07:30 asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-New-RTC-DS1302-Real-Time-Clock-Module-For-AVR-ARM-PIC-SMD-Arduino-Y5RP-/311396590299 << example

15:07:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq98dW )

15:08:15 asciilifeform: these clocks would still have to be ~set~, but it can be done en masse, once.

15:09:12 decimation: it could be altuh

15:09:23 decimation: ~.

15:09:26 asciilifeform: ?

15:10:24 decimation: sorry tmux died

15:10:35 asciilifeform: incidentally, if anybody feels up to falling on this grenade with me, please speak up

15:10:50 decimation: asciilifeform: are there specs for the rtc modules? specifically thermal stability?

15:11:05 asciilifeform: decimation: not afaik. probably best to assume the worst.

15:11:36 asciilifeform: but overall i'm much less allergic to the idea of letting ntp adjust a running clock by a percent now and then

15:11:50 asciilifeform: than straight intravenous injection from ntp into a machine with no clock to speak of

15:12:09 decimation: aye

15:18:48 lobbes: heh, we need a b-a factory.

15:19:28 asciilifeform: lobbes: we don't even have a b-a restaurant yet.

15:24:06 kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.

15:25:21 kakobrekla: or the need for one. can service others in yurop i guess.

15:41:25 williamdunne: Cheap Romanian labour for #b-a factory?

15:44:44 punkman: http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/woman-staged-rape-scene-with-knife-vodka-called--/article_9295bdbe-167c-11e5-b6eb-07d1288cc937.html

15:44:45 assbot: Woman staged 'rape' scene with knife, vodka, called 9-1-1, police say - LancasterOnline: Local News ... ( http://bit.ly/1fqZ83K )

15:45:08 punkman: "However, a Fitbit device Risley was wearing told a different story, the affidavit shows. The device, which monitors a person’s activity and sleep, showed Risley was awake and walking around at the time she claimed she was sleeping."

15:47:29 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yeawell...

15:47:42 punkman: http://openssl.org/news/secadv_20150709.txt

15:47:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MhYXSF )

15:49:46 asciilifeform: punkman: lulziez!

15:49:56 asciilifeform: why is anyone using that thing again...?

15:51:25 mircea_popescu: because bitcoin uses it

15:51:40 asciilifeform: not the cert crud

15:52:01 mircea_popescu: people don't know. "openssl" right ?

15:52:13 mircea_popescu: "During certificate verification, OpenSSL (starting from version 1.0.1n and 1.0.2b) will attempt to find an alternative certificate chain if the first attempt to build such a chain fails. An error in the implementation of this logic can mean that an attacker could cause certain checks on untrusted certificates to be bypassed, such as the CA flag, enabling them to use a valid leaf certificate to act as a CA and "issue"

15:52:13 mircea_popescu: an invalid certificate."

15:52:13 asciilifeform: (though it's been a while since i looked at the turdation's tree - perhaps they do ?)

15:52:45 mircea_popescu: and yet, "we do not feel compelled to denounce the person who added this hole in our codebase, and call for a boycott from everyone on it against their sorry ass. because, fundamentally... it's us."

15:53:14 asciilifeform: who else.

15:53:17 asciilifeform: not martians, no.

15:53:32 mircea_popescu: "As per our previous announcements and our Release Strategy (https://www.openssl.org/about/releasestrat.html), support for OpenSSL versions 1.0.0 and 0.9.8 will cease on 31st December 2015. No security updates for these releases will be provided after that date. Users of these releases are advised to upgrade."

15:53:36 mircea_popescu: non sequitur prize of the year.

15:54:02 mircea_popescu: "we will stop deliberately adding holes to these versions aftyer this date, and you are please asked to upgrade because we won't be sending patches a quarter afterwards, either"

15:54:02 mircea_popescu: herp.

15:54:10 mircea_popescu: DO NOT EVER FUCKING UPGRADE ANYTHING.

15:54:25 mircea_popescu: that way, you won't need "security patches" in the first place.

15:55:06 asciilifeform: incidentally, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191327 << this thread fell through the cracks, i think

15:55:06 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 17:37:15; trinque: https://security.gentoo.org/glsa/201507-04

15:55:11 asciilifeform: relates.

15:55:25 mircea_popescu: you may be the only one here seriously following gentoo.

15:55:45 asciilifeform: it isn't a gentoo-specific thing

15:55:46 asciilifeform: unfortunately

15:55:54 asciilifeform: it is in ~EVERYTHING THAT USES UNICODE~

15:55:59 asciilifeform: more or less.

15:57:02 mircea_popescu: guess that wasn't apparent.

15:57:05 asciilifeform: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pedrib/PoC/master/generic/i-c-u-fail.txt

15:57:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr1Kie )

15:57:09 asciilifeform: ^ proof of concept

15:57:17 asciilifeform: or wait, no

15:57:23 asciilifeform: just the raw animal

15:57:25 mircea_popescu: Workaround There is no known workaround at this time.

15:57:36 mircea_popescu: yes there ios a known workaround. has been known since 1985. FUCK UNICODE.

15:57:46 shinohai: whelp I hve a pogo now. A blank canvas, if you will.

15:57:58 mircea_popescu: shinohai wd. follow danielpbarron's instructions

15:57:58 *: shinohai graciously thanks mats again ...

15:58:06 mircea_popescu: !rated mats

15:58:06 assbot: You rated user mats on 08-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Lotta paralegal work on http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/.

15:58:51 mircea_popescu: !rate mats 2 http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.

15:58:51 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1be7db6ba38c2aa6

15:58:52 assbot: So who's running the Courts circus ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr25Bn )

15:59:11 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mats.2:69e8f3590c3e3179d8606f89cade86164889b7457861391f4944b9ffca387e6d

15:59:11 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 2 with note: http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.

15:59:17 mircea_popescu: !rated lobbes

15:59:17 assbot: You rated user lobbes on 06-Feb-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Well... he did teach himself how to view a directory....

15:59:32 mircea_popescu: !rate lobbes 2 #eulora logs bot

15:59:32 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8d485e72deea6e0b

15:59:38 shinohai: I am sorry to report that I have not yet received an email from fraudsters with a deposit addy

15:59:53 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.lobbes.2:81f948807d830af41e59c4726108dd6ddae1f995b52730f156735b2897c1a68b

15:59:53 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for lobbes from 1 to 2 with note: #eulora logs bot

15:59:59 mircea_popescu: shinohai spam filters ?

16:00:03 mircea_popescu: !rated danielpbarron

16:00:03 assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 29-Jul-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Logician in charge of logistics..

16:00:15 shinohai: I dunno. I get the dev mailing list.

16:00:39 shinohai: but not fraudsters, and nothing in spam folder so i dunno :/

16:01:02 shinohai: I could send to deedbot or something?

16:01:28 mircea_popescu: lemme send you an email now and we see. addy ?

16:01:34 mircea_popescu: (pm if you want)

16:03:54 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJe3A19W8AA9DgO.png:large

16:03:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mi1Enb )

16:06:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00055059 = 1.2113 BTC [+]

16:07:12 mircea_popescu: whassat punkman ?

16:07:26 mircea_popescu: the dram thing ?

16:07:32 punkman: javascript corrupting memory

16:08:08 mircea_popescu: http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com.ar/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html

16:08:09 assbot: Project Zero: Exploiting the DRAM rowhammer bug to gain kernel privileges ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr43lp )

16:08:15 mircea_popescu: for background

16:08:20 *: asciilifeform remembers very well

16:14:16 shinohai: Not seeing my drive :/

16:14:48 asciilifeform: shinohai: what are you running ?

16:15:10 shinohai: Busybox on pogo mount: mounting /dev/sda1 on /tmp/usb failed: Invalid argument

16:15:31 asciilifeform: what's on the drive ?

16:16:05 shinohai: nothing

16:16:21 asciilifeform: of course it won't mount

16:16:26 asciilifeform: gotta partition it

16:16:37 punkman: the "spam" is now up to 0.00034513 fee

16:17:20 *: shinohai checks

16:18:25 shinohai: Fer crissakes I forgot to partition fr.

16:18:37 shinohai: But it must wait until sfter lunch.

16:18:42 shinohai: *after

16:28:21 mircea_popescu: shinohai got email ?

16:28:37 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00034513 * 270

16:28:37 gribble: 0.0931851

16:28:43 mircea_popescu: 10 cents, not bad.

16:29:49 shinohai: got email

16:31:43 asciilifeform: 'brother can you spare a dime'

16:31:46 asciilifeform: (tm) (r)

16:35:44 decimation: asciilifeform: www.ebay.com/itm/INBOARD-RTC-DS3232-Real-Time-Clock-and-Temperature-Sensor-I2C-BUS-PIC-AVR-ARM-/120841157983 < hi-spec part

16:36:03 decimation: unlike alot of the other rtcs, the crystal is on-chip and temp compensated

16:36:16 mircea_popescu: that's a spiffy clock.

16:36:33 decimation: my reading of the spec sheet is that combined aging and temperature stability (assuming 0-40C) would be about 8.5 ppm

16:36:43 decimation: which means about 4.5 minutes per year

16:36:51 decimation: for 10 years

16:37:06 mircea_popescu: yeah it's good for a decade, since we have ~2 hours to spare

16:37:08 decimation: likely, the cr1203 battery wouldn't last that log

16:37:20 mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised. those damned things... i've had one for a decade.

16:37:46 asciilifeform: i have a 15 yr-old one that's still going

16:37:54 asciilifeform: and i've had ones die after <5

16:37:58 decimation: but as you can see it isn't cheap, the chip is about $9 in single quantity and about $4 in units of 1000

16:38:01 asciilifeform: 'your mileage may vary'

16:38:04 mircea_popescu: yeah. like hdds : either dead in six months or good forever.

16:38:17 mircea_popescu: like humans, actually. either die as a youthful ape, or else get cancer, or else... age 150

16:39:00 asciilifeform: decimation: the thing you linked to costs more than pogo...

16:39:06 decimation: I know :(

16:39:09 asciilifeform: may as well suggest atomic

16:39:22 shinohai: I got a really old SATA with debian wheezy on it

16:39:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's still a very good clock by the looks of it.

16:39:49 asciilifeform: it is

16:39:54 decimation: unfortunately the really cheap ($1) rtcs available do not come with specs, it would be interesting to know what they are

16:39:55 asciilifeform: probably better than most pc mobos

16:40:00 decimation: yes, it certainly is

16:40:01 mircea_popescu: definitely.

16:40:20 decimation: also I'm not sure if pogo has i2c bus

16:40:26 mircea_popescu: iirc - no.

16:40:28 asciilifeform: l0l i think ~it~ is on my mobo

16:40:36 asciilifeform: the very same

16:40:42 mircea_popescu: maybe on the better ones

16:41:07 asciilifeform: highest end amd mobo of ~8 yrs ago

16:41:13 decimation: asciilifeform: you can configure ntp to ignore the network and use RTC

16:41:24 mircea_popescu: i don't expect technologee changed these much since the 90s

16:41:27 asciilifeform: decimation: what good does that do ?

16:41:39 decimation: you set rtc, usg doesn't set your clock?

16:41:49 asciilifeform: then why ntp

16:41:52 mircea_popescu: he doesn't want to set anything

16:41:59 decimation: to discipline the kernel timebase

16:41:59 mircea_popescu: he just wants things to do shit!

16:42:29 decimation: likely the rtc has a more stable clock than the 2ghz clock that runs your cpu

16:42:35 asciilifeform: decimation: and can't do this without a proggy that opens sockets ?

16:42:39 asciilifeform: why the fuck not ?

16:42:52 mircea_popescu: moar unpnp ? :D

16:43:04 decimation: well, the advantage that ntp brings is the long-term PLL that gently corrects

16:43:17 decimation: but you could periodically bang the clock

16:43:17 asciilifeform: decimation: i'd have bitcoind snarf time straight from the rtc chip

16:43:19 asciilifeform: why the ceremonies.

16:43:29 decimation: in the case of bitcoind that would work

16:43:37 decimation: for other applications moving the clock around might make them sad

16:43:46 asciilifeform: there are no other proggies on pogo

16:43:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ready for the will/intelligence discussion ?

16:43:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fire away

16:44:10 *: decimation back to mines

16:44:10 scoopbot_revived: Eulora News Bulletin of today. http://fraudsters.com/2015/eulora-news-bulletin-of-today/

16:44:18 mircea_popescu: me ? you're the one to fire. you proposed pink shapeless.

16:44:32 mircea_popescu: o incidentally. that article ^ prolly interests you

16:44:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, the impression i get is that you think 'will' is a scalar

16:49:12 asciilifeform: will is not a scalar. perelman has will, mircea_popescu has will, i have will, and napoleon had will, and comparing magnitudes alone is rank nonsense

16:49:47 mircea_popescu: but that's not where the problem lies. the problem lies at the spot where you propose there exists an "intelligence" that nevertheless does not have control of the processor.

16:50:05 mircea_popescu: if one is purportedly intelligent, how is it then that his brain does not work intelligently ?

16:50:19 asciilifeform: intelligence is 'car,' will is 'driver'

16:50:28 mircea_popescu: then intelligence is no sort of intelligence at all.

16:50:34 mircea_popescu: i dub it "derp" and rename your will intelligence.

16:50:55 asciilifeform: driver sans car sits and makes 'vroom, vroom' noises; car without driver - sits, rusts.

16:51:04 mircea_popescu: for this is the definition of intellectual faculty : the driver.

16:51:09 mircea_popescu: everything else, muscle power.

16:52:23 mircea_popescu: and yes, redditards are not necessarily unintelligent in the sense of derp.

16:52:26 mircea_popescu: they're actually very derpy.

16:52:32 mircea_popescu: problem is they're dumb as rocks, is all.

16:53:10 asciilifeform: other thing is that the meat brain is not a von neumann machine, and has specific circuits for certain problems. it is possible to walk around with those damaged and others - functional

16:53:37 mircea_popescu: so is a guy paralised on half his body half an athlete ?

16:53:52 asciilifeform: if he's an arm wrestling champ !

16:53:59 asciilifeform: and has his working arm.

16:54:15 mircea_popescu: kinda why arm wrestling is not athletics :)

16:54:28 mircea_popescu: in any case, weren't you bravely accusing ME of viewing things as scalars ?

16:54:37 mircea_popescu: how come they're now divisible with 2.

16:55:31 funkenstein_: there is a special space in the hilbert space of stupidity for those who think intelligence can be well described with a scalar

16:55:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my contention was that you describe will as a spectrum, perhaps between 'spineless clerk' and 'napoleon'

16:55:52 mircea_popescu: i dun think i do.

16:56:18 mircea_popescu: there is an ennumerable list of people by their intelligence. this usually reduces to sorting them by score

16:56:21 asciilifeform: whereas i contend that it is possible to be 'napoleon' with theorems and 'spineless piece of shit' with girlz

16:56:22 mircea_popescu: and that score is how much money they have.

16:56:24 asciilifeform: or vice-versa

16:56:37 mircea_popescu: only if one WANTS TO

16:57:03 funkenstein_: i have found fiat wealth correlates linearly with a broad integral of stupidity

16:57:04 asciilifeform: well that'd be a kind of perverse but technically correct definition of 'will'

16:57:05 mircea_popescu: "oh it can be the case i can lift rocks but not railroad metal"

16:57:05 mircea_popescu: rly.

16:57:08 asciilifeform: how strong is your 'want muscle'

16:57:22 asciilifeform: it's more of a 'i can lift rocks but not porcupines'

16:57:50 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as they both exist, they both exist. inasmuch as the one you're good at doesn't exist, you're basically wanking.

16:58:10 *: asciilifeform confused

16:58:13 mircea_popescu: the curse of existence is that it is approachable. just like a tool has its uses, irrespective of a maker's intention.

16:58:20 mircea_popescu: everything that is, is. which has some effects.

16:58:43 asciilifeform: which is the item mircea_popescu is describing as not existing? and which - not ?

16:58:57 mircea_popescu: i am doing no such thing.

16:59:14 mircea_popescu: i am merely pointing out that if both things you discuss exist, then both necessarily, by definition of existence, are approachable.

16:59:38 mircea_popescu: this is traditonally pointed out to the shy young male as "you know, even the lady of your heart farts"

16:59:53 mircea_popescu: or whatever, your hero also bleeds, there's a lengthy cultural history of this idealisation problem.

17:00:24 asciilifeform: proof of twin-primes conjecture is also 'approachable' by this token

17:00:33 asciilifeform: in that it is sitting 'there' to be dug up

17:00:37 mircea_popescu: only if it exists :)

17:00:42 mircea_popescu: which atm we do not know.

17:00:51 asciilifeform: it is possible that it does not exist

17:00:55 mircea_popescu: but if it does exist, then yes, it will necessarily be found eventually.

17:00:56 asciilifeform: better example - pluto

17:00:59 asciilifeform: we know where it sits

17:01:02 asciilifeform: come, get.

17:01:05 mircea_popescu: get what ?

17:01:10 asciilifeform: a piece of pluto.

17:01:22 mircea_popescu: so you are saying mining pluto is an impossibility.

17:01:41 mircea_popescu: and why not ceres ? she's just as big!

17:01:49 mircea_popescu: nobody ever thinks of ceres.

17:01:57 asciilifeform: not impossible, but not strictly a matter of 'wanting to' either

17:02:05 mircea_popescu: orly ?

17:02:22 mircea_popescu: and if it were the case the commercial value of piece of pluto ten times exceeded the commercial cost of sending miner ?

17:02:28 mircea_popescu: it'd be mined next week.

17:02:43 mircea_popescu: so no, we currently do not wish to, is all.

17:03:01 asciilifeform: this is logical, but for some reason this scenario did not play out re: bitcoin asics

17:03:03 asciilifeform: why?

17:03:11 mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?

17:03:12 asciilifeform: (afaik, there are still no true asics!)

17:03:23 mircea_popescu: too low margins

17:03:31 mircea_popescu: do the math, sometime. a miner earns 0.2% or some shit.

17:03:48 asciilifeform: partly this is on account of using 'hardcopy fpga'

17:03:51 mircea_popescu: currently foundries are working on .9%

17:03:56 asciilifeform: which is 100% of what is presently sold as 'btcasic'

17:04:01 mircea_popescu: yeah

17:04:18 mircea_popescu: of course, sold != deployed, but the error isn't great.

17:04:23 asciilifeform: partly this is on account of the derpitude of keeping them all in a warehouse, rather than having chumps pay for power

17:04:29 asciilifeform: (as discussed in 2013 here)

17:04:44 mircea_popescu: they are kept in warehouse for same reasdon you want untouched pogo

17:04:49 asciilifeform: but that 0.2% is made of a long list of bad decisions

17:04:53 mircea_popescu: people have this fixed idea that getting others involved is the worst play.

17:05:02 mircea_popescu: it isn't the worst play, but hard to get the notion through.

17:05:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. chief among them, a poor handling of cooperation.

17:05:27 asciilifeform: aha

17:05:49 asciilifeform: think of what just one backroom cocksucking deal with a major microcontroller maker to include hidden miner would have been worth.

17:06:06 mircea_popescu: ~nothing much

17:06:24 asciilifeform: what's the logic here?

17:06:36 mircea_popescu: hard to explain, but i will give the anecdotic.

17:06:54 mircea_popescu: i am not unaware of this possibility, yet i apparently discounted it, preferring a divergent approach. maybe i'm just that dumb.

17:07:14 asciilifeform: (that the hidden boojum would not stay hidden, is a no-brainer. idea would be to exploit the first-mover advantage, naturally)

17:07:28 mircea_popescu: shitty thing to build a life of.

17:07:36 mircea_popescu: you want last-mover advantage. if you can get it.

17:07:45 asciilifeform: life of miner is a life of a soldier, disposable, as mircea_popescu reminded us last night

17:07:56 mircea_popescu: what else has first mover advantage ? making a bitcoin foundation ?

17:07:58 mircea_popescu: they lost.

17:07:59 asciilifeform: l0l

17:08:15 asciilifeform: there is a whole array of strange things that miner builders do, which puzzle me greatly

17:08:16 mircea_popescu: o, wait, that schmucky chick. what was it, chamber of buttsex ?

17:08:38 asciilifeform: i'll name just one (because i am not in the business of handing out free advice to derpatronicists) -

17:08:53 asciilifeform: why the fuck does 'as much has as possible' have to be packed in one die ?

17:09:00 asciilifeform: creates the heat nightmare

17:09:03 mircea_popescu: !up cosmo

17:09:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're just going through the motions. they don't really know what they're doing, nobodyu sat dowqn and thought things through.

17:09:29 asciilifeform: and it isn't like ten dies would take up unpalatable floor space

17:09:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it

17:09:39 mircea_popescu: the packing thing is a result of the consumer electronics market

17:09:56 mircea_popescu: they don't understand that if you sell for yourself, and not to put in a desktop, you have diff engineering constraints

17:10:10 asciilifeform: so what i'm saying is, pluto is sitting there, made of priceless unobtainium, and schmucks are schmucking around

17:10:12 mircea_popescu: actually more floor space = better for a short interval at the place they're now.

17:11:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and at some point, america teemed with fucktarded savages and nobody came to kill the males and rape the females.

17:11:05 mircea_popescu: sure, nobody did.

17:11:08 mircea_popescu: for... a little bit.

17:11:24 mircea_popescu: and ... nobody will ever again.

17:11:34 mircea_popescu: for... hm. for EVER AND EVER THIS TIME!!11

17:11:40 asciilifeform: 8k years was 'a little bit' ?

17:11:44 asciilifeform: i suppose - geologically...

17:12:06 mircea_popescu: iirc the vikings did a little recuntissance

17:12:48 asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)

17:15:22 asciilifeform: back to the miners, i say that if money were the handy iq test mircea_popescu suggests it is, this kind of situation would be quite impossible.

17:15:32 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ << that's basically the ideology of butthurt.

17:15:47 mircea_popescu: it is drastically unwise to imagine a certificate of intelligence as a sort of consolation prize.

17:15:50 funkenstein_: the point at which Americas so teemed began in 1600 or so

17:16:05 mircea_popescu: that's what late empire matrons tell their effette offspring that just lost at the races to the hearty barbarians : "don

17:16:10 mircea_popescu: 't woprry honey, they're stupid"

17:16:26 mircea_popescu: they're not so stupid, and the measure of their superior intelligence is to be found in the joyous cries of the noble roman's girlfriend.

17:16:36 funkenstein_: it's not a question of "don't worry" .. actually, we should be worried

17:17:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. improbable, which all reality ever is.

17:17:08 mircea_popescu: not impossible, nor long of this world.

17:17:16 asciilifeform: there very much ~is~ such a thing as 'stupid and effective'

17:17:26 asciilifeform: such as the bacteria that eventually eat everybody's girlfriend

17:17:27 mircea_popescu: like how would that be ?

17:17:29 asciilifeform: (along with anyone else)

17:17:33 mircea_popescu: is gcd stupid but effective ?

17:17:35 funkenstein_: the reason wealth is often correlated with dumb is probably similar to why gps ownership is correlated with poor navigation skills

17:17:47 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ such as in sattelites and missiles ?

17:17:53 mircea_popescu: glwt.

17:18:20 mircea_popescu: i propose that gcd is one of the few smart things we know.

17:18:24 mircea_popescu: it is smart enough to be the END of a class.

17:18:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja know that paul erdos had a story about these ?

17:18:46 asciilifeform: this class.

17:18:53 mircea_popescu: nope

17:19:03 asciilifeform: he liked to say that god had a book, containing the best possible proof of each theorem

17:19:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00054405 = 5.0053 BTC [-]

17:19:15 asciilifeform: highest compliment paul e. could give a colleague was to say 'this is from The Book'

17:19:23 mircea_popescu: ahaha not bad.

17:19:33 asciilifeform: hence 'end of a class'

17:19:40 mircea_popescu: makes sense, dunnit ? even without being jewish.

17:19:40 asciilifeform: it is actually a very rare thing

17:19:54 asciilifeform: (being able to prove that you can't do better runtime than particular algo, say)

17:20:51 asciilifeform: however, there are still interesting boojums:

17:20:59 funkenstein_: see e.g. the god algorithm for cube solving

17:21:09 asciilifeform: romans could very well have 'proved' that their arithmetic is 'optimal'

17:21:15 asciilifeform: while being entirely wrong by our lights

17:21:26 mircea_popescu: even gods bite it eventually.

17:21:26 asciilifeform: because 'notation is worth 80 iq'

17:21:30 asciilifeform: ^

17:21:43 mircea_popescu: kinda why i do not actually regret golden antiquity.

17:21:48 mircea_popescu: had a good run, but it did run its course.

17:22:10 mircea_popescu: and so it came to pass zeus eventually ran out of book.

17:22:31 asciilifeform: everybody eventually runs out of book.

17:23:08 mircea_popescu: for my curiosity, how'd such a roman proof look like ?

17:23:12 mircea_popescu: i don't readily see it.

17:24:19 mircea_popescu: (but this is perhaps the most obscure field of all scholarship - constructive cultural antrhopology, which is to say : construct FUTURE development of science on the basis and with the methods available in X context.

17:24:38 mircea_popescu: a superlative form of hermeneutics if you wish. certainly decent training exercise for the more advanced students.

17:25:04 asciilifeform: this is normally where 'alt history' storytellers fail, yes

17:25:10 mircea_popescu: ayup

17:25:15 asciilifeform: 'show me nazi internet' (mr mold)

17:25:20 mircea_popescu: even the most cursory effort to consider the matter sunks people like orlov.

17:25:39 mircea_popescu: it should be standard class in disinfo ministry, but hey. they're also saving these days.

17:26:46 asciilifeform: sometimes the 'construct future with past' thing gets taken up and run ragged, though. as in the case of 'square the circle with ruler and compass' problem that drove folks batshit until 19th c even.

17:26:55 mircea_popescu: aha.

17:27:21 asciilifeform: and there are still legions of crackpots trying to prove ftl with what they studied in school.

17:27:39 mircea_popescu: where is that discussion with cads

17:27:44 asciilifeform: a maths prof informed me that until recently, it was customary to answer their letters. but not any more.

17:27:55 mircea_popescu: !s riemann

17:27:55 assbot: 1 results for 'riemann' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=riemann

17:29:07 mircea_popescu: hm

17:29:44 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/squares-do-morals-a-porno/#footnote_9_49613

17:29:46 assbot: Squares do Morals. A Porno. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Toj2L7 )

17:32:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, all kinds of folks spent whole lives 'lala i can't hear you' to cantor's diagonal.

17:32:22 asciilifeform: probably even now

17:32:31 asciilifeform: something about it pisses off certain types

17:32:40 mircea_popescu: aham.

17:33:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, re nazi internet : minitel

17:33:11 asciilifeform: probably not too far off!

17:33:21 mircea_popescu: mhm

17:34:13 asciilifeform: (twist: rewrite orwell's '1984' where 'minilove' is actually a dour and heavily bureaucratized network of official brothels.)

17:34:50 mircea_popescu: not bad idea.

17:35:04 mircea_popescu: like they have in indonesia / poor asia generally and it fascinated tarantino

17:35:13 asciilifeform: them.

17:35:24 mircea_popescu: ever seen the sexploitations in question ? women on cots, 500 to a hall, separated by hanging sheets ?

17:35:38 asciilifeform: didn't see alive, no. but who hasn't seen photos.

17:35:43 asciilifeform: sorta like an old military hospital

17:35:46 *: mircea_popescu visited one such thing, in costa rica. it is the closest i ever got to a medieval hospital.

17:35:50 mircea_popescu: ha!

17:36:00 asciilifeform: obvious mental association

17:36:06 mircea_popescu: sexploitation = a movie

17:36:14 asciilifeform: haven't seen, no

17:36:19 *: asciilifeform adds to list

17:37:11 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/women-in-cages/

17:37:12 assbot: Women In Cages on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmuYQ9 )

17:40:33 asciilifeform: 'Anyway, it is my considered opinion (along with, I wager, most everyone else's) that positively the ONLY way that's getting show to be inconsistent is by some intoxicated kids during having sex or somesuch. Everything else was tried to death.' (from mircea_popescu's www) <<<< 'ftl drive will be discovered by an ee student on the verge of flunking, designing stero amps.' (al schwartz)

17:41:56 asciilifeform: incidentally, for anyone who missed, gabriel_laddel found that schwartz is not only alive but cranking out nonstop commentary re: everything, largely on some godforsaken redditron

17:42:16 asciilifeform: might be time to attempt persuading him to visit, again.

17:47:50 asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-IIC-Module-Real-Time-Clock-Memory-Module-For-Arduino-DS3231-AT24C32-/400932997447 << also temp-compensated ?

17:47:52 assbot: High Quality IIC Module Real Time Clock Memory Module for Arduino DS3231 AT24C32 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmwFwO )

17:48:02 asciilifeform: ~88 cent

17:48:49 asciilifeform: (plus battery)

17:52:57 asciilifeform: what i wonder is where these are typically used.

17:53:05 asciilifeform: they are produced, and apparently sold, in vast quantities.

17:53:15 asciilifeform: clearly ~somebody~ isn't eager to use ntp for everything.

17:54:09 asciilifeform: where do these little modules go? toasters? time bombs in afghan ?

17:58:11 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah DS3231 is the older version of the same chip that doesn't have any onboard sram

17:58:14 decimation: would work fine

17:58:23 decimation: I think the 3231 is end of life, probably trying to ditch stock

17:58:52 decimation: asciilifeform: I think at least one use is utility meters

17:59:09 decimation: any case where you have a cheap sensor that you 'launch'

17:59:56 asciilifeform: sram could be useful, to keep 'last seeds' in or whatnot. but entirely luxury.

18:00:13 decimation: aye

18:00:35 decimation: oh they also use them in gps receivers

18:00:38 decimation: for 'cold start'

18:00:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9920 @ 0.00054166 = 5.3733 BTC [-] {2}

18:01:19 decimation: yeah the ds3231 has the same spec for time performance

18:02:31 asciilifeform: and costs 18x less, l0l

18:02:35 asciilifeform: (than earlier link)

18:02:39 decimation: someone must be ditching stock

18:02:44 asciilifeform: like pogo..

18:03:16 decimation: 'cause a 3231 costs like $4.50 from digikey in qty 1000

18:03:31 asciilifeform: ^ not including pcb, battery holder, etc

18:03:32 asciilifeform: xtal

18:03:38 decimation: no xtal is in chip

18:03:42 asciilifeform: ah hm.

18:03:45 asciilifeform: even so.

18:03:47 decimation: but yeah

18:12:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.

18:15:09 mircea_popescu: yeah somebody with still a reddit acct plox ask scwhartz to come over.

18:15:19 asciilifeform: it wasn't reddit

18:15:22 *: asciilifeform digs in log

18:15:23 danielpbarron: discus

18:15:30 mircea_popescu: meh.

18:15:36 mircea_popescu: fucking discus. what the fuck is wrong with that guy.

18:15:43 asciilifeform: it

18:15:51 mircea_popescu: i mean of all the places... no wonder it took forever to find him.

18:16:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's a compulsive ant-stomper. went where the enviro-whiners congregate

18:16:11 asciilifeform: to apply his futile flamethrower

18:16:16 asciilifeform: every 15 min. or so, all day...

18:16:37 asciilifeform: i guess his isp finally stopped carrying usenet..

18:16:54 mircea_popescu: he should be here, i'm sick of being the most lines.

18:17:05 *: asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines

18:17:48 asciilifeform: somebody oughta send him a link with b-a search string of his name, or whatnot

18:18:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00054405 = 4.842 BTC [+]

18:19:10 mircea_popescu: or the discussion of the apparatus

18:19:45 asciilifeform: definitely it.

18:20:04 asciilifeform: or gabriel_laddel going over his dozen favourite al essays

18:20:13 asciilifeform: or this thread!

18:20:20 asciilifeform: ferfuxxsake.

18:21:31 asciilifeform: come visit us, uncle al! we'll dine on adelberger's roasted ballsack and wash it down with lagavulin !

18:22:08 ag3nt_zer0: anyone seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD5oMxbMcHM

18:22:09 assbot: The Act of Killing - Official Trailer (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboL4C )

18:22:11 asciilifeform: and while you're here, bring penny and anybody else still alive from mensa.talk.misc

18:23:43 funkenstein_: i think i saw him on sci.physics.relativity a decade ago

18:23:44 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 youtube stopped working for me with some update or other.

18:24:16 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: he was all over sci.* a decade+ ago

18:24:24 asciilifeform: 1990-2004 or so

18:24:57 asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal << www still up!

18:25:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboXRn )

18:25:02 asciilifeform: no new essays for some years though

18:25:23 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/0ff0aff9dffec8a9a978794148cd219e/tumblr_mjw7i4bmlm1qfaf1fo1_1280.jpg

18:25:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboYEI )

18:25:34 *: asciilifeform recalls the ordeal of convincing mircea_popescu that al schwartz isn't a 'timecube'

18:25:40 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I watched that last week.

18:26:04 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=34&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQtwIwAzge&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2F58004844&ei=pLyeVcuAEcm2ogSx-5rgBg&usg=AFQjCNH_j-TsYTnEvRDHiEZH3WbYMAwywg&sig2=JNwKq1S17c8cSu5k9ZR6sA&bvm=bv.96952980,d.cGU

18:26:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbp5jL )

18:26:09 ag3nt_zer0: wtf sorry

18:26:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not even convinced yet. just, not particularly convinced of the contrapositive.

18:26:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00054499 = 3.1882 BTC [+] {2}

18:26:34 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 vimeo never worked. for some reason html5 standards are too hard for these schmucks

18:26:46 mircea_popescu: (that reason being, obviously, that they can't get to play their inept advertising with it)

18:27:09 *: asciilifeform convinced, but it took many years of actually working through the maths

18:27:16 *: asciilifeform does not expect anyone here to do this.

18:27:33 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: well, it's called The Act Of Killing and you should look at it

18:27:35 mircea_popescu: maybe after teh war.

18:27:38 asciilifeform: after.

18:27:44 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 can it be a text ?

18:27:59 mircea_popescu: i had no idea just how iconoclastic i actually am, before b-a

18:28:36 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: a text? don't understand

18:28:54 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195308 << https://disqus.com/home/discussion/neuroskeptic/could_travelling_waves_upset_cognitive_neuroscience/#comment-2127007121

18:28:54 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:20:13; asciilifeform: or this thread!

18:28:55 assbot: Disqus - Could Travelling Waves Upset Cognitive Neuroscience? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpgvv )

18:28:57 mircea_popescu: that film or whatever it is, does it have a script or some such textual equivalent ?

18:29:11 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: what'd you think? fucking bizarre?

18:30:33 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: no script... it's like nothing else I have seen - http://www.theactofkilling.com/

18:30:34 assbot: The Act of Killing ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpkey )

18:31:08 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: eh them recalling the days of murdering people... it seemed rather natural

18:31:52 trinque: having them reenact the events was a little strange, but what I was struck with was the matter-of-fact attitude they had towards the events, mostly

18:31:55 funkenstein_: wait violence and killing in movies? what a novel idea

18:32:06 trinque: I figure I live a pretty padded life not knowing what that's like

18:32:40 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah, natural in a way... but the vibrant colors, the recreations, them watching the takes and commenting... the translations... fucking crazy

18:33:00 mircea_popescu: "The government chose not to enact coercive measures, however, stating that the regulation of the online activities of children was up to parents, not the government. " << most important thing about minitel.

18:33:02 trinque: funkenstein_: docu has folks from kissinger's indonesian bloodletting reenacting and recounting their stories

18:33:09 mircea_popescu: i'd have much rather had french internet than ustardian internet.

18:33:11 mircea_popescu: !up mike_c_alt

18:33:18 ag3nt_zer0: I wasn't in the mood the first few times I started it, so I stopped... finally last night had the receptivity and it hit pretty good...

18:33:38 mircea_popescu: and generally, the world will be broadly a better place once the colonies get their voice turned down to the 1.6-2.2 they deserve.

18:34:02 mircea_popescu: there is no conceivable reason the combined cultural pull of us should exceed that of greece. they're about the same toilet.

18:35:07 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: there's another along these lines, was pretty good

18:35:11 trinque: I'm trying to recall the name

18:35:13 mike_c: Sorry for part spam.. different client/computer than usual.

18:35:33 trinque: had 'nam vets and such talking about how they couldn't come back from war mentally because they liked war so much

18:35:44 trinque: wasn't the majority of them, but some felt that way

18:35:52 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: added mine, for what it's worth

18:36:07 trinque: the idea of a "warrior" seems foreign these days, I guess

18:36:24 mircea_popescu: mike_c how you doin' these days

18:37:05 mike_c: Who knows. I try not to think about it.

18:37:22 mircea_popescu: o.O

18:37:41 mike_c: way too busy!

18:37:52 trinque: heh, I know that feeling

18:37:52 mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla

18:37:58 mike_c: got a couple of good blog posts coming up though that are half way done.

18:38:00 mircea_popescu: but experimentally, it seems to be a transient phase

18:38:02 asciilifeform: mike_c: good busy or bad busy

18:38:21 mike_c: bad busy. Time is sucked away on things that aren't worth it.

18:38:35 mircea_popescu: sucks.

18:38:40 *: asciilifeform is ^ much of the time

18:40:42 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah I suppose... unless you have to sit through a multiculturalism focused education program in humboldt county run by marxism-hypnotized dykes... then noticing fruits of their labor in Silly Valley public ed... then start thinking warrior again

18:40:59 ag3nt_zer0: haha it isnt even just under the surface

18:41:19 mircea_popescu: so argue them into the dirt.

18:41:44 ag3nt_zer0: yeah working on it

18:41:59 mircea_popescu: fwif i'm a multiculturalism fan.

18:42:09 ag3nt_zer0: why?

18:42:16 mircea_popescu: cuz i'm from central europe ?

18:42:21 ag3nt_zer0: haha

18:42:25 asciilifeform: usa does nulliculturalism

18:42:26 asciilifeform: not multi

18:42:29 mircea_popescu: just because they sell shit under imported names in the us doesn't mean the originals are bad

18:42:35 mircea_popescu: it just means the us destroys everything it touches

18:42:53 trinque: asciilifeform: hey, they change the holiday aisle at walmart for cinco de mayo!

18:43:21 ag3nt_zer0: I am a fan of apple because I live in silly valley

18:43:47 mircea_popescu: nah, doesn't reduce to that. central europe used to be run by a multicultural empire.

18:43:57 mircea_popescu: we did the funny naming conventions they used here before

18:44:01 mircea_popescu: !s cezaro-craiesc

18:44:02 assbot: 0 results for 'cezaro-craiesc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cezaro-craiesc

18:44:06 mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!

18:44:31 asciilifeform: !s царь-государь

18:44:31 assbot: 0 results for 'царь-государь' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C-%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C

18:44:32 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: multi-racial? or just multicult?

18:44:37 asciilifeform: ferfuxsake

18:44:40 asciilifeform: search is broken.

18:44:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i blame you and your antistemming policies.

18:44:50 asciilifeform: CAN HAZ GREP PLZ

18:44:55 asciilifeform: as in, exact same behaviour

18:44:55 asciilifeform: ?

18:45:05 asciilifeform: why does b-a search have to not be grep ?

18:45:10 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 let's put it this way : you couldn't as a middle class woman marry some douche who didn't speak multiple languages. because your parents wouldn't let you.

18:45:36 mircea_popescu: because that meant he is stupid.

18:46:19 asciilifeform: sorta like illiteracy today

18:46:23 mircea_popescu: quite like.

18:46:31 asciilifeform: or iprogrammacy tomorrow

18:46:37 mircea_popescu: doubt that.

18:46:42 *: asciilifeform also doubts

18:46:47 mircea_popescu: but hopes ? lol

18:46:47 asciilifeform: but there once was this notion.

18:46:48 trinque: along those lines, I only just found naggum's hyperspec.el

18:47:01 trinque: let it be known that I resent having had to search the landfill for this shit

18:47:27 ag3nt_zer0: I mean maybe we aren't speaking of the same thing... here, in US, multiculti is synonymous with "tolerance" and "diversity" and cultural relativism.... which translates to, in many cases, classrooms full of unruly mexican children claiming racism if you say that 2+2=4

18:47:32 asciilifeform: trinque: i've spent years trying to pull naggum, uncle al schwartz, et al out of the landfill

18:47:48 asciilifeform: trinque: it is one of those things that has to be done.

18:48:01 asciilifeform: like the excavation of aristotle in the old days

18:48:05 mircea_popescu: and i bet you they told you all you needed to hear about gravity wells and whatnot.

18:48:37 ag3nt_zer0: meanwhile, any good student, mexican, white, asian, whatever, is completely fucked and her education is retarded even more than it would be normally, just by virtue of the PE system... but this shit makes it so much worse

18:48:52 asciilifeform: gravity wells ?

18:48:56 mircea_popescu: what's pe ?

18:49:06 asciilifeform: public ed?

18:49:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, can't leave disqus because that's where his discwot is.

18:49:09 mircea_popescu: aok

18:49:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubt it. he's switched 'discuses' a couplea times in the past few yrs, it looks like

18:49:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35257 @ 0.00054529 = 19.2253 BTC [+] {2}

18:49:46 asciilifeform: doesn't seem to have much positive to say re: the folks therein

18:49:47 mircea_popescu: yeah. and if us falls over how many folk will go to canada.

18:49:49 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: that reduces to "you should, as the teacher, be in charge of the fucking room."

18:50:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he plays a role similar to what hanbot once did on tardstalk

18:50:07 asciilifeform: but without any good reason to

18:50:11 mircea_popescu: he can not. for who is the employer

18:50:13 mircea_popescu: aha

18:50:16 ag3nt_zer0: https://www.archive.org/stream/bugbearofliterac035352mbp/bugbearofliterac035352mbp_djvu.txt

18:50:19 assbot: Full text of "The_Bugbear_Of_Literacy" ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbqU04 )

18:50:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << zing.

18:50:49 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?

18:51:05 *: asciilifeform answered that one...

18:51:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194806 << typically italian.

18:51:50 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 09:58:31; punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."

18:52:38 asciilifeform: mr b is probably closest thing southern europe has to a 'lizard'

18:53:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194820 << the reason he doesn't have the ~2 trillion required is EXACTLY that he would do this with it. and it's a stupid idea and it shouldt be done. in the general case, money works to limit the power of influencing the course of events people have, and gathers itself in the hands of those who ~SHOULD~ have most to say.

18:53:07 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 12:58:26; punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."

18:53:09 mircea_popescu: that's whgat it is.

18:53:10 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yes but these ridiculously reductionist tolerance ideas put into the heads of idiots just amounts to, as MP says something about in a blurb about professionalism on fraudsters, amateurs playing the racist card or what not... any number of limp-dicked excuses and diversions from what should be the teacher's right to maintain a fucking orderly environment

18:53:30 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds kinda like men's rights

18:53:40 trinque: what I'm saying is if you were in power in the situation it wouldn't matter

18:53:51 trinque: the idea that a bunch of kids can overrule you is insane, aside from a fantasy

18:53:56 asciilifeform: re: market, see also, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193867

18:53:56 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them

18:54:12 asciilifeform: imagine if 'reddit' folk actually had anything

18:54:44 asciilifeform: we still haven't recovered from their species having net connections

18:55:08 mircea_popescu: BitFury pool (~ 16% of hashrate) drops their max block size to 135 kB amidst large mempool backlog << check out all the gavin miner support.

18:55:16 mircea_popescu: they should have a vote!

18:55:18 trinque: haw!

18:55:23 mircea_popescu: make the block version be 81!

18:55:30 mircea_popescu: noi wait 42. 42 is the right version to have.

18:55:45 kakobrekla: BitFury pool < back to 974

18:55:51 asciilifeform: maxint.

18:56:06 kakobrekla: kb

18:56:14 mircea_popescu: "You can't solve a problem of lack of bandwidth by higher fees for access. A system that is too bandwidth limited to serve it's users isn't fixed by making the service more expensive."

18:56:15 mircea_popescu: herp.

18:56:24 mircea_popescu: i gotta love idiots, srsly. if not me, then who.

18:56:48 asciilifeform: i wonder if any of them ever encountered phrase 'load shedding'

18:57:07 asciilifeform: i bet they ~will~, but only when the words appear on their - final - electric bill.

18:57:12 asciilifeform: some time this decade.

18:57:36 mircea_popescu: mmmyeah.

18:58:08 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: to reword what I was saying, thinking in terms of rights means somebody else is in charge, doesn't it?

18:58:09 mircea_popescu: "bandwidth just comes from whining to dad, money has nothing to do with it. why should i get a summere job ??!?!?!"

18:58:31 trinque: whereas the problem you describe is one of *you* not being in charge

18:58:37 asciilifeform: in related newz, i sometimes go to a 'dry cleaner' shop. their price, unchanged for a decade+, has gone up 50%. it was actually part of the chain's name, and they have to put garbage bags over the neon signs...

18:58:46 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: to be fair, I was subbing last year, and so these were not "my" classrooms, but still, it is just so fucking degenerate man... but check this: even of it IS your classroom it can still be quite dufficult with these fucking democratically programmed idiots in charge

18:58:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform two words from a pile of paper you yourself regard as disinfo ?

18:58:48 asciilifeform: 'inflation doesn't exist. if exists, doesn't matter. and fuckyou for asking'

18:58:52 mircea_popescu: very shitty answer, afl.

18:59:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which pile

18:59:10 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: oh I know; I think it's too fucked to salvage

18:59:16 mircea_popescu: ferretsomething

18:59:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'hangout' != fiction

18:59:52 asciilifeform: best hangout is to expose a genuine secret. just one that still 'works' fine after exposed.

18:59:58 mircea_popescu: that rope's gettin' tight.

19:00:03 asciilifeform: that cannon's still shootin'.

19:00:03 mircea_popescu: point out just one ? for love ?

19:00:26 ag3nt_zer0: for instance, I just got a job teaching music at a school 2 days a week... so it's my own classroom. however, I have already been told that "we don't ever raise our voices here"... "we all go by our first names"... etc all this hippy slop

19:00:54 ag3nt_zer0: and also "we use a program called "positive discipline"....

19:00:58 trinque: lol!

19:01:19 ag3nt_zer0: so i resisted for a while, then finally looked it up thinkning "ok, I'll have a good go at it and backburner my cynicism"

19:01:28 *: asciilifeform bbl

19:01:31 ag3nt_zer0: well gwt this fucking shit!

19:01:33 trinque: and when the child screams for another cupcake, you shall deliver it to him in no less than 15 seconds

19:01:36 ag3nt_zer0: I looked it up

19:01:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194852 << this would be a massive win situation

19:01:42 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:50:35; asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers

19:01:52 mircea_popescu: sort-of like the "here's gavin's head on a plate, fuckwits. now what ?"

19:02:10 ag3nt_zer0: and it turns out the entire thing was created by a guy who commited suicide in a hotel room after he was accused of molesting kids

19:02:18 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 so you told them that "maybe YOU do, miss derp, but I do not. anything else ?"

19:02:26 mircea_popescu: did you or didn't you ?

19:03:01 trinque: really do have to be willing to fight people to keep any sanity in the states

19:03:03 ag3nt_zer0: and trinque, this is a PARENT PARTICIPATION school... and none of these motherfuckers seem to know that their entire discipline system was created by this jack ass

19:03:23 trinque: so piss in all their cheerios or leave, mang

19:03:27 trinque: and/or

19:03:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194866 << zing.

19:03:29 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:54:36; jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?

19:03:33 mircea_popescu: i like jurov's logic machine.

19:03:36 ag3nt_zer0: but I won't say anything till I make my money to travel the world next year... then when I quit I will mention that they should look into their shit a little more

19:03:38 shinohai: pogo is up mats \o/

19:03:49 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: hell I've written php for rent

19:03:57 mircea_popescu: wd shinohai

19:03:59 trinque: the whole thing's coming down anyway

19:04:16 trinque: it's not like you're going to save that public school from itself and then that'll somehow mean the empire doesn't fall over anyway

19:04:39 trinque: sling php with abandon, I say, and study common lisp all evening and night

19:04:46 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: the principal said that I have a choice... but it was just a sidelined statement really

19:04:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194889 << i also like his pincered skullcap :D

19:04:58 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:07:02; asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo

19:05:12 mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 looky here. nobody asked him anything.

19:05:32 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes

19:05:36 mircea_popescu: you went to school, learned a trade, now youy're gonna aplly it.

19:05:41 mircea_popescu: they don't like it, they can call the union

19:05:59 mircea_popescu: you, of all the only people here, are in the best position. stop making up random excuses.

19:06:22 mircea_popescu: "i don't care how you do it. this is how i do it. get out of my classroom."

19:06:28 ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes, I still have to learn the ropes in these ways... don't fret, my inner psychopath is learning

19:07:01 mircea_popescu: nay! it stands for, "nobody asked you".

19:07:08 trinque: !b 1

19:07:09 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/19NRB2V.txt )

19:08:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194905 << this can prolly be arranged, if we actually decide to humour this patent insanity

19:08:56 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:24:06; kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.

19:09:04 mircea_popescu: instead of just eating ntp shitsandwich

19:09:19 mircea_popescu: the life and times and the choices before us, good lord.

19:10:11 ag3nt_zer0: my problem is that I get so fucking mad at these poseurs who have the nerve to claim that they carry the flame of knowledge to pass on to these kids... when all they are doing is trying to make themselves appear nice in their own mirrors

19:10:20 mircea_popescu: so tell them that.

19:11:06 mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel; any better, this is a traditional problem of teaching as practiced since that bismarck's invention of the "school"

19:11:16 ag3nt_zer0: yeah... it's coming... just need to do it wisely

19:11:25 mircea_popescu: one kid unhappy with the other poseurs in the "cancelarie" of romanian schools cca 1980. maybe two. in each school.

19:11:27 mircea_popescu: 60s, same.

19:12:13 mircea_popescu: ;;google tovarasul profesor isoscel

19:12:14 gribble: Tamara Buciuceanu - Wikipedia: https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamara_Buciuceanu; extemporal la dirigentie: profa de mate - scena 1 - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7isr9wzmWw; Tamara Buciuceanu - Actor - CineMagia.ro: http://www.cinemagia.ro/actori/tamara-buciuceanu-2416/

19:14:05 ag3nt_zer0: thanks for the words of encouragement

19:18:00 mats: good to hear shinohai

19:18:32 shinohai: I have everything except a working static build of bitcoind

19:31:45 trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmZsstddULc&list=PL7M0G2a-TISfqmuk24assKLdQQz87lPzZ << great metal album

19:31:46 assbot: El Altar Del Dios Desconocido - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWBQOD )

19:45:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24875 @ 0.00053783 = 13.3785 BTC [-] {2}

19:46:20 asciilifeform: http://www.businessinsider.com/heartbleed-fix-faw-openssl-hacking

19:46:21 assbot: Fresh 'high severity' security flaw found in OpenSSL - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQxeuj )

19:46:30 asciilifeform: l0l re: 'team discovered'

19:46:34 asciilifeform: ~created~.

19:46:36 decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski There is no

19:46:36 decimation: USB support yet, which means that there is no local storage

19:46:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:46:42 decimation: (no onboard CompactFlash).

19:47:03 decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/5.7/octeon/INSTALL.octeon < they claim that openbsd doesn't support usb storage

19:47:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQxmKi )

19:47:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:50:15 asciilifeform: in other 'news,' my node has 44 connections

19:50:23 asciilifeform: afaik that's a new record.

19:52:11 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/07/caspar-bowden-cpunks-1996-98.txt << unrelated, historical lulz

19:52:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWEqEm )

19:52:17 Naphex: https://xotika.tv/static/munin/main/main/mbitcoin_transactions.html for the interested

19:52:18 assbot: Munin :: main :: main :: mbitcoin transactions ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWEqUO )

20:09:37 shinohai: 44 O.o

20:09:58 danielpbarron: !up opus8

20:12:05 shinohai: udev

20:13:24 trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?

20:13:46 trinque: I'm archiving things for the derpocalypse

20:13:59 danielpbarron: you mean like archive.is ?

20:14:30 trinque: nah a command line thinger I can toss a url or regexes at and have it duplicate the site locally

20:14:48 punkman: trinque: there is no hope

20:15:15 trinque: lol, at least it will give me something to read til the power goes out

20:16:53 punkman: wget can recurse a bit

20:17:14 shinohai: snapshill bot

20:19:27 trinque: shinohai: link?

20:19:51 trinque: https://github.com/justcool393/SnapshillBot << this?

20:19:52 assbot: justcool393/SnapshillBot · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWHW1j )

20:20:14 trinque: has a bunch of shit regarding those archive sites in it

20:20:25 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBot.rss

20:20:26 assbot: SSBot: this subreddit is private ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWI1lE )

20:20:46 shinohai: whelp thats dead

20:20:57 trinque: I'm just gonna bash script it up

20:21:26 trinque: regex match URLs, if it's from the same domain and not on disk, wget the shit

20:21:28 trinque: sounds easy

20:21:47 punkman: you'll be pulling your hair out soon enough

20:22:18 trinque: WHAT COULD GO WRONG

20:26:47 trinque: also keeping a running archive of my /usr/portage/distfiles

20:32:30 punkman: trinque: http://www.httrack.com/ might be of interest

20:32:31 assbot: HTTrack Website Copier - Free Software Offline Browser (GNU GPL) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWJM2i )

20:33:15 trinque: punkman: sweet, it's in portage. ty

20:45:20 trinque: punkman: that thing works great.

20:45:53 trinque: did exactly what I wanted; sane defaults; a++++

20:57:06 decimation: asciilifeform: amusing thread re: Guido et.al. discussing how how exactly they should fuck somebody trying to just 'import pkg' https://mail.python.org/pipermail/import-sig/2012-March/000430.html

20:57:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWNgBZ )

21:12:53 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174822 << that was me and juliatourianski_ at the "bitcoin free-roll" poker tourny at porcfest. We made it to the final table; she busted out on the bubble and I busted out right after that. Sold my 0.3 prize on the spot for 75 dollars (since USD is not so ironically the most liquid asset, even at a libertarian festival)

21:12:53 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:19:40; mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?

21:13:39 mircea_popescu: ic

21:15:07 danielpbarron: related: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIhnfgZUcAEeEXG.jpg << b-a WoT group photo

21:15:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWQVzR )

21:15:47 mircea_popescu: o hey, pretty cool

21:16:22 asciilifeform: http://bgr.com/2015/07/08/hacking-tools-pita-encryption-keys-radio-waves << why is this ~2 yrs. plus-old project constantly in the nyooz

21:16:24 assbot: Hacking Tools: PITA uses radio waves to steal encryption keys | BGR ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWR4mK )

21:16:31 asciilifeform: while interesting things - nowhere to be found

21:16:31 danielpbarron: that's julia, me, birdman, and rassah (in the group photo)

21:16:33 asciilifeform: rhetorical q.

21:17:47 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195567 << what's wrong with 'wget -m' ??!

21:17:47 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 20:13:24; trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?

21:18:36 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195171 << Viking recuntissance in North America happened at a pre-Apocalyptic time. By the Anglo Arrival diseases brought by the Spanish had left North America post-apocolyptic

21:18:36 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 17:12:48; asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)

21:21:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 140 @ 0.07996427 = 11.195 BTC [+] {6}

21:21:07 BingoBoingo: Squanto was actual IRL implementation of a helpful NPC from Fallout

21:21:31 decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/ "However, some U.S. officials caution against taking actions against foreign states when the cyber theft is conducted for traditional spying motives. The United States has not officially named China or the motive, but privately officials say it appears China was conducting a form of trad

21:21:32 assbot: Hack of security clearance system affected 21.5 million people, federal authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWRQ3f )

21:21:40 decimation: wait wait let's not be too hasty here...

21:21:59 asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz!

21:22:04 decimation: heh

21:23:19 decimation: I would like to see the moral reasoning that leads one to believe it is 'ok' to 'conduct traditional espionage' but not the kind that 'can benefit industry'

21:24:46 decimation: I guess it's roughly the same logic that leads one to conqueror Iraq (or Afghanistan) and then pretend that extracting tribute is immoral

21:24:48 mircea_popescu: the only scandal here is that 21.5 mn people worked for the government.

21:24:52 asciilifeform: decimation: there is an official usg fiction that dirt lifted from 'airbus' isn't passed straight to 'boeing', etc

21:24:59 mircea_popescu: really, this should be in the constitution : not more than one person per million.

21:24:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try 300 mn

21:25:25 mircea_popescu: !up Xemist

21:25:30 mircea_popescu: Xemist you wouldn't be al would you ?

21:25:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the funny part is that there are various limits, in fact, because actual civil servant gets pension, health cover, holidays, statutorily

21:25:47 mircea_popescu: decimation i like that the only thing said there is "we like china cock - so delishious!!1"

21:25:54 asciilifeform: so when i worked in an army lab, it was 1 actual usg 'green badge' for 25-30 'purples'

21:26:04 asciilifeform: (the latter - us, coolies - contractors)

21:26:27 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195302 << http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ Between asciilifeform and ascii_field actually most lines past 7 and 30 days

21:26:27 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:17:05; *: asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines

21:26:28 assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqTuPn )

21:26:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: damn, that's even worse

21:26:46 mircea_popescu: get a lyf alf!

21:27:48 decimation: mircea_popescu: it was more like "what china is doing is okay because we do it too!"

21:27:50 asciilifeform: 'Not every spy?s data is in the system. The CIA conducts its own security clearance investigations and keeps that data to itself. Even so, some U.S. officials have said that a foreign spy service might be able to identify U.S. intelligence operatives by comparing stolen OPM records with rosters of U.S. personnel at embassies overseas.'

21:28:07 asciilifeform: ^ trivial. if fella works at embassy and ~isn't~ in the list, he's cia

21:28:34 mircea_popescu: decimation not at all.

21:28:46 mircea_popescu: it was, literally, "we like this kind of rape - the guy is strong enough."

21:31:56 asciilifeform: hey, the mega-cunt left vacant by su had to be filled

21:32:14 asciilifeform: cn fills it, if you also add a few pillows

21:32:27 mircea_popescu: i dun follow.

21:32:47 mircea_popescu: all i see here is, the usg is no longer a virgin. today, china raped them and they thanked it for the service.

21:32:56 mircea_popescu: tomorrow, i rape them, and they give me a congressional medal of honor for it.

21:33:13 mircea_popescu: either before that tomorrow or after that tomorrow, some arab kids too.

21:33:32 asciilifeform: the 'thanking' is not wholly stockholm syndrome, but is used to justify giving every other printed usd to the .mil contractors

21:33:36 asciilifeform: (the favourite sons)

21:33:51 decimation: ^

21:34:17 asciilifeform: which recently pioneered mega-innovations like switching to wholly-imaginary, rather than merely underpowered, airplanes

21:34:25 mircea_popescu: doesn't matter WHY she claims to have liked it.

21:34:30 asciilifeform: 'cybers33k0000rity' systems which actually spread crapware

21:34:31 asciilifeform: etc

21:34:45 decimation: mircea_popescu: sure it does, if she has a strap-on and another 300 men lined up

21:34:48 mircea_popescu: obviously it was for the children

21:34:57 mircea_popescu: whateverfor else

21:35:47 decimation: actually I predict this event will mark a turning point for usg

21:35:56 asciilifeform: how?

21:36:10 decimation: because now even the little kids growing up today will know what they are signing up for if they work for usg

21:36:19 asciilifeform: decimation: and in vietnam war they didn't ?

21:36:31 decimation: that didn't affect folks who just pushed paper

21:36:40 asciilifeform: so far i don't see any 'affect'

21:36:54 decimation: now even the janitors have to worry

21:36:59 *: asciilifeform looks out window for chinese gasenwagen rounding up folks on list

21:37:01 *: asciilifeform doesn't see one

21:37:17 decimation: well, if they are smart they will be a bit more subtle than that, but it's a fair point

21:37:38 asciilifeform: this is precisely what the pencilpushers mean by 'standard traditional intelligence gathering'

21:37:45 asciilifeform: it means 'business as usual', no gassings

21:37:52 asciilifeform: 'they have list' - 'we have list'

21:37:57 asciilifeform: 'parity'

21:38:07 asciilifeform: 'nothing happens, your bills are still due'

21:38:18 mircea_popescu: isn't asciilifeform cute :D

21:38:25 decimation: asciilifeform: the irony is that cn govt and us govt know what is going on, but the average usian voter is kept in the dark

21:38:38 mircea_popescu: what parity ?

21:38:40 asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/07/08/map-how-much-100-is-really-worth-in-every-state-2 << now check out new low of loathsome garbage

21:38:41 assbot: Map: How much $100 is really worth in every state - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqUrqP )

21:38:43 mircea_popescu: who exactly has the chinese lists ?

21:38:48 mircea_popescu: what on EARTH are you talking about ?

21:38:55 mircea_popescu: the us doesn't even have a fgucking missile spec sheet.

21:38:55 asciilifeform: (^ it is very plain that they disregarded real estate)

21:39:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Official Truth is that all cn rockets are still run on asymmetric hydrazine

21:39:33 asciilifeform: and take ~20h to fill up

21:39:41 mircea_popescu: sigh.

21:39:48 asciilifeform: as designed by korolev.

21:39:59 asciilifeform: in '59

21:42:54 decimation: "The RPPs are calculated using price quotes for a wide array of items from the CPI, which are aggregated into broader expenditure categories (such as food, transportation, or education)1. Data on rents are obtained separately from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey (ACS). The expenditure weights for each category are constructed using CPI expenditure weights, BEA's Personal Consumption Expenditures, and ACS rents expenditur

21:43:25 asciilifeform: fact is, there are 20k usd houses and same building elsewhere for 2mil.

21:43:39 decimation: yeah, well virginia is especially lulzy

21:43:50 asciilifeform: and you would not ever guess this fact, from the linked chart.

21:44:00 decimation: as if the vast collection of trailer parks 'downstate' makes up for the $mil condos in arlington

21:44:04 asciilifeform: because its entire purpose is to throw smoke on it.

21:44:43 decimation: you would end up with that chart I posted yesterday, which shows that 10 counties 'own' the majority of us real estate wealth

21:45:17 asciilifeform: own?!

21:45:18 asciilifeform: l0l

21:45:21 asciilifeform: get fleeced, rather

21:45:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75521 @ 0.0005334 = 40.2829 BTC [-] {3}

21:45:42 asciilifeform: by bank first, by tax collectors - perpetually

21:45:57 decimation: yeah, good point. the vast majority of the 'real estate wealth' I just mentioned is actually notional value on some bank's loan sheet

21:46:08 trinque: asciilifeform: this thing punkman linked lets me feed it regexes of interesting stuff to look for

21:46:21 asciilifeform: trinque: neat

21:46:40 asciilifeform: could use wget+perl

21:46:58 trinque: yeah that would work

21:47:07 decimation: anyway, the net effect of this 'govt secrecy' racket seems to be to keep secrets from usians, not from foreign spies

21:48:03 asciilifeform: in other newz, uncle al was smart. emailed me at my consulting co. to see if comment was from an actual human

21:48:08 asciilifeform: let's see if he remembers how to pgp

21:48:41 mircea_popescu: win.

21:49:52 pete_dushenski: decimation i continue to confuse the bsd's... for the edgerouter, i used freebsd as well !

21:50:01 decimation: ah that explains it then

21:50:24 asciilifeform: from thread on www: '"8^>) I'll stop by as soon as I push back some alligators.'

21:50:25 pete_dushenski: ayup. i can't seem to keep them straight.

21:50:43 asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^

21:50:45 asciilifeform: see thread

21:50:58 pete_dushenski: decimation mebbe if i knew wtf the difference was, i'd be of more use to others

21:52:22 danielpbarron: neato, and in "other news" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJgOvqFUwAAzEKy.jpg

21:52:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVlUl )

21:53:05 punkman: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-09/market-complexity-broke-the-nyse-before-saving-it

21:53:06 assbot: Market Complexity Broke the NYSE Before Saving It - Bloomberg View ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVkjc )

21:53:06 scoopbot_revived: Female Trouble http://fraudsters.com/2015/female-trouble/

21:54:21 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lmao you are there are you ?

21:56:32 danielpbarron: i wish, i suppose

21:57:04 decimation: https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg138968.html < ah well then I am pleased to annouce that apparently openbsd will be supporting oceton usb in the very near future

21:57:05 assbot: Re: NetBSD has now support for USB on EdgeRouter Lite ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVxD1 )

21:57:12 decimation: at least, that's what I got out of that email

21:57:45 asciilifeform: if i were setting that thing up ~today~, i'd probably roll a 'buildroot' linux for it

21:57:59 asciilifeform: because to hell with having items that aren't in constant required use, in there.

21:58:00 decimation: asciilifeform: would you include binary driver turd?

21:58:01 asciilifeform: at all.

21:58:06 asciilifeform: decimation: why'd i do that

21:58:10 decimation: hehe

21:58:14 decimation: performance?

21:58:18 asciilifeform: it performs now.

21:58:22 asciilifeform: sans turds

21:58:22 pete_dushenski: o hey bloombergview figured out footnotes. they're catching on to the style, those nooz types, next is qntra-level content.

21:58:30 asciilifeform: 100% uptime since plugged in, early february

21:58:37 decimation: so is there an open source replacement for that driver then?

21:58:37 asciilifeform: never once coughed, sputtered

21:58:42 asciilifeform: decimation: there is not.

21:58:51 asciilifeform: it is running without the weird acceleration crap

21:59:16 decimation: well, there must be some level of 'basic functionality' the eth device supplies without it

21:59:25 asciilifeform: aha, like other chipsets

21:59:36 asciilifeform: it moves packets fast enough to keep up with my rotating disks

21:59:44 asciilifeform: i fail to see why i would need them to move any faster.

22:00:06 trinque: heh so far ate moldbug and uncle al's sites

22:01:09 trinque: fraudsters and loper I expect to be able to get via hamsterwheel shortwave gossipd someday

22:01:15 danielpbarron: trinque, is this a good candidate for archival? -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3;sa=showPosts;start=0

22:01:16 assbot: Latest posts of: satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToGJmx )

22:01:21 asciilifeform: trinque: if you need my site for anything, it's there

22:01:35 asciilifeform: no paywall

22:01:49 mircea_popescu: nice uptime.

22:02:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's plugged into a massive ups

22:02:15 trinque: danielpbarron: the whole forum?

22:02:18 asciilifeform: (along with everything else that is worth anything)

22:02:25 danielpbarron: i lost my nearly 4 month uptime on my pogos when a tree took the power out yesterday afternoon :/

22:02:25 mircea_popescu: aha

22:02:39 danielpbarron: trinque, just satoshi's posts

22:02:52 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there is a dead-tree book containing 'satoshi's posts'

22:03:05 asciilifeform: i have it. has some extraneous garbage, but appears to actually contain... satoshi's complete posts

22:03:21 danielpbarron: is published somewhere?

22:03:27 *: danielpbarron will go, buy.

22:03:38 asciilifeform: http://www.bookofsatoshi.com

22:03:39 assbot: The Book of Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVV4n )

22:03:43 asciilifeform: download for phree

22:03:44 trinque: call me paranoid, but yeah, I'm stockpiling information from now on.

22:03:47 asciilifeform: buy if you like dead tree

22:03:59 pete_dushenski: "Overall, the fact that the rise of top incomes has been much greater in certain sectors, such as finance, and among senior executives is more consistent with a pattern of rent (excess earnings relative to market-determined earnings) creation and extraction specific to those sectors than with a competitive market for skills." << because "market" is now synonymous with "fair". donchaknow.

22:04:13 asciilifeform: someone here might have told me that the fella who put that book together later turned sc4mz0r somehow

22:04:30 trinque: pete_dushenski: god.. the "fair market" is ripe for use as a propaganda term on their end

22:04:42 pete_dushenski: and because "competition" means worse people getting more shit free !

22:04:50 pete_dushenski: trinque seems to be moving that way

22:05:09 pete_dushenski: another word for socialists to reappropriate

22:05:40 pete_dushenski: because "the market doesn't work unless we make it work"

22:05:49 mircea_popescu: you generally know who the retards wish to be by looking whose words they try to misuse.

22:05:55 pete_dushenski: fascinating hubris, these guys.

22:05:58 mircea_popescu: currently, all signs point to... us.

22:06:19 pete_dushenski: 'all roads lead to rome'

22:06:45 pete_dushenski: or venice, as the case may be.

22:07:39 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, aha the forward of the book is by berwick, the galt's gulch guy who got a write up in fraudsters

22:07:42 asciilifeform: what part of the linked text is false ?

22:08:30 asciilifeform: gonna tell me that the folks who service the money printers are paid 'for unique skills' rather than 'because who will stop them from taking every other bucket home' ?

22:09:19 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/be78def1cabf80ec440a73edf5dbbd7b/tumblr_n9svk1RoIs1s6dk4zo1_500.jpg

22:09:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWfjD )

22:09:49 asciilifeform: is that even female.

22:10:06 mircea_popescu: sexist.

22:12:13 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195371 <<< what can i say other than the longer i am sober the more inclined i am to head outside than sit here on pc

22:12:13 assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:37:52; mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla

22:12:16 *: trinque is slurping naggum posts from here http://xach.com/naggum/articles/

22:12:17 assbot: Erik Naggum comp.lang.lisp archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWpaQ )

22:13:07 asciilifeform: trinque: have you tried emailing xach for a copy of the archive and very spiffy browsing scripts ?

22:13:11 asciilifeform: that'd be the real deal

22:13:40 asciilifeform: incidentally, he's - as fas as i can tell - an actual person and probably would belong here.

22:14:57 trinque: I have not; could do that, yeah

22:16:23 trinque: would be great to grab all these http://www.xach.com/naggum/books/

22:16:24 assbot: The Erik Naggum Bookshelf ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWICs )

22:16:47 asciilifeform: trinque: your stockpile probably isn't complete without a stack of 'mitsui' gold-reflector cd burns

22:17:09 asciilifeform: trinque: i bid on some of those

22:17:19 asciilifeform: the coveted ansi standard, in particular

22:17:22 trinque: baby-archivist steps so far, but I was looking at tape archive systems earlier :p

22:17:26 asciilifeform: it was gone seemingly minutes after he died

22:17:29 asciilifeform: never had a chance

22:17:53 asciilifeform: (the pdf you get if you're an idiot and pay ansi $20, or on warez - same, is an almost unreadable scan)

22:18:28 asciilifeform: i have wanted that thing for years. but i;m not paying usg 500 for a book

22:18:52 asciilifeform: esp. since i have it on good authority that they've been laser-printing that pdf

22:18:56 asciilifeform: for anyone dumb enough to pay

22:19:20 trinque: lol

22:20:56 asciilifeform: waitasec

22:21:02 asciilifeform: those aren't naggum's books!

22:21:03 asciilifeform: scam!

22:21:08 asciilifeform: fucktonnes of garbage

22:21:16 trinque: orly

22:21:17 asciilifeform: and i ~remember~ the list from his estate sale

22:22:00 trinque: yeah "adobe flex for dummies" lol?!

22:22:38 trinque: I dunno, maybe this included the basement books

22:23:05 trinque: heh osu has throttled me for pulling too many distfiles from them

22:23:22 asciilifeform: original was at http://www.flownet.com/ron/Cat_Naggum.06.10.pdf

22:23:24 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqX9wI )

22:23:24 asciilifeform: but long gone

22:23:30 asciilifeform: it did not have garbage.

22:24:49 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/books/catalog.pdf << here we go

22:24:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqXdfI )

22:25:18 asciilifeform: notice, none of the american pablum

22:25:24 asciilifeform: and none of the microshit

22:25:30 asciilifeform: how those got in the other list, i do not know

22:26:36 trinque: cool, ty

22:27:42 asciilifeform: about to post a de-pdf'd version

22:29:59 asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt

22:30:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJHYb )

22:30:26 trinque: nice

22:30:37 trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt

22:30:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJOTN )

22:30:39 deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.

22:30:40 trinque: derp

22:30:45 trinque: not signed

22:30:51 asciilifeform: 1sec

22:32:18 asciilifeform: try now

22:32:26 trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt

22:32:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJTXE )

22:32:29 deedbot-: rejected: 1

22:32:33 asciilifeform: dafuq

22:32:38 trinque: bwah?

22:32:43 asciilifeform: i motherfucking signed it

22:32:49 trinque: yeh, I'll figure it out

22:34:37 asciilifeform: wtf did that ~other~ list come from

22:34:41 danielpbarron: idk if anyone else had tried this already, but I sent some bitcoin to an address created by on my pogo, and I think I have successfully sent it all back out but bc.i doesn't want to admit my transaction exists yet

22:34:41 asciilifeform: it made me want to throw up

22:35:11 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when carrying out this experiment, please remember that pogo HAS NO RNG

22:35:26 kakobrekla: yet

22:35:27 danielpbarron: i sent in 0.001 and sent out 0.0005 with a 0.0005 fee

22:35:31 kakobrekla: we will be bolting it on shorty.

22:35:33 kakobrekla: lulz

22:35:51 trinque: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/c/cd/Locutus_complexion_drain.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130214005126&path-prefix=en

22:35:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToKgkW )

22:37:51 danielpbarron: also, BingoBoingo's proposed change to 0.001 of the minrelayfee is very handy for keeping pogo synced

22:38:18 asciilifeform: ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^

22:38:23 trinque: this python-gnupg is a motherfucking piece of shit

22:38:34 danielpbarron: was formerly a dozen or so blocks behind, after restart with new setting, almost fully synced in half an hour

22:38:36 asciilifeform: sure is!

22:38:49 danielpbarron: no patch necessary; it's a config option

22:41:14 trinque: like... I'm just going to shell out to the gpg binary

22:41:20 trinque: ENOUGH.

22:43:36 asciilifeform: trinque: know that gpg was built just like this.

22:43:39 asciilifeform: like gcc was

22:43:47 asciilifeform: doesn't 'libraryize' at all - by design.

22:44:04 asciilifeform: i imagine this was done for similar reasons as for gcc.

22:48:17 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^ << This is a bitcoin.conf option

22:51:56 decimation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datum-Symmetricom-BC635PCI-U-PCI-Time-and-Frequency-Card-BC635PCI-QTY-Avail-/161733020476 < for folks wishing to create their own usg-free ntp server

22:51:58 assbot: Datum Symmetricom BC635PCI U PCI Time and Frequency Card BC635PCI Qty Avail | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToLWe6 )

22:57:05 decimation: appears to have onboard ocxo, which the datasheet claims 5e-8 stability - about +/- 1.5 seconds per year

22:58:42 jurov: ..at 25 +/- 0.1 C , no?

22:59:20 hanbot: !rated jurov

22:59:20 assbot: You rated user jurov on 24-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: A dili-, intelli-, gent..

22:59:42 jurov: lol my name's day here

23:01:07 hanbot: !rate jurov 3 A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.

23:01:07 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/4b856e57905757bc

23:02:07 hanbot: !v assbot:hanbot.rate.jurov.3:7d94608b06d5546bfb17e08573890583b92baec4a8e2116ff570e0ffe5a8f477

23:02:07 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 1 to 3 with note: A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.

23:03:07 jurov: meh. not exactly cutting my own throat

23:10:13 ben_vulpes: GOOD AFTERNOON

23:11:14 BingoBoingo: Oh United Nuclear has graduated to selling metallic Uranium in quantity https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_8&products_id=1078&zenid=b7a1b3d5deedd67923024b5154d3d3ea

23:11:16 assbot: Uranium Metal, large samples : United Nuclear , Scientific Equipment & Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1CsMVpi )

23:16:53 asciilifeform: decimation: what's that thing do

23:16:59 asciilifeform: decimation: i don't see anything oven-like

23:17:05 asciilifeform: or large enough to be a ru oscillato

23:17:06 asciilifeform: r

23:21:37 BingoBoingo: ^

23:22:06 asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Cesium-Beam-Frequency-Standard-5061A/151274829277 << cheap!

23:22:08 assbot: HP Cesium Beam Frequency Standard 5061A | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToP1Ln )

23:22:23 asciilifeform: less than my computer, even

23:23:53 asciilifeform: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/primary-frequency-standards.cfm << illustration for n00bs, of usg's cesium fountain

23:23:54 assbot: primary frequency standards ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToPahF )

23:35:40 asciilifeform: iirc the tube's good for about a decade

23:35:46 asciilifeform: so probably not such a deal after all.

23:39:23 asciilifeform: http://www.ieee-uffc.org/main/history-atomichron.asp << historical

23:39:25 assbot: IEEE UFFC | History | Atomichron: The Atomic Clock from Concept to Commercial Product ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToQzVJ )

23:40:50 trinque: asciilifeform: the text of that message silently crashes or hangs python when **printed!!**

23:41:08 asciilifeform: 'Though the instrument spoke well for itself, National continued its promotional efforts. These were misplaced, for there was in those early years no commercial market. Ninety percent of those first fifty Atomichrons were purchased by military agencies for their own installations and for loan to other government facilities, university-operated military laboratories, and university laboratories. The other 10 percent were purcha

23:41:08 asciilifeform: sed by other U.S. and foreign government agencies. Apart from their evident utility as frequency standards in laboratories engaged in research in that field, or responsible for the maintenance and transmission of standard frequency and time signals, there was at first no well-established application for these instruments. '

23:41:13 asciilifeform: trinque: wai wat

23:41:16 asciilifeform: which messag

23:41:21 trinque: also cannot copy/paste and reupload to dpaste. dpaste gives me a blank screen after POST

23:41:28 trinque: asciilifeform: naggum's lib on your server

23:41:30 asciilifeform: dpaste gave me a 'too long'

23:41:47 trinque: I just grabbed it with requests *and* verified it with the gnupg turd by hand

23:41:52 asciilifeform: trinque: can you get me any output from the crash ?

23:42:00 trinque: it doesn't say shit, but trying, yeah

23:46:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00053037 = 3.7391 BTC [-]

23:51:00 *: asciilifeform realizes with horror that he owns perhaps 90% of the titles in naggum's library list

23:51:08 asciilifeform: if not more

23:53:41 mats: u r naggum

23:53:49 asciilifeform: not dead of colitis yet...

23:54:07 asciilifeform: i suppose when i end up with ~all~ the bookz - then.

23:54:25 trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt

23:54:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToRWnk )

23:54:28 deedbot-: accepted: 1

23:54:36 asciilifeform: trinque: so what was that about

23:54:36 trinque: solution being... use less python

23:55:23 trinque: asciilifeform: dunno, python was choking on the string silently; maybe I'll investigate more later

23:55:34 asciilifeform: python 2 or 3 ?

23:55:35 trinque: as for now, I made curl and gpg kiss via the shell (quoted of course)

23:55:38 trinque: python 2

23:55:57 asciilifeform: iirc 2 chokes on just about anything other than straight ascii

23:56:03 asciilifeform: guess there was a uniturd in there, somewhere

23:56:07 asciilifeform: probably the norwegian titles

23:56:10 trinque: towards the end, yeah

23:57:43 trinque: and I'll be curious at 5:15 whether it shits something verifiable on deedbot.org

23:57:48 trinque: for now, I depart

23:57:58 asciilifeform: later.

23:59:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19392 @ 0.00052413 = 10.1639 BTC [-] {2}