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Transcript for 09-09-2015, 2211 lines:

00:02:35 ben_vulpes: who needs agency, when you have bad opsec?

00:05:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0007418 = 11.8688 BTC [+]

00:07:43 midnightmagic: built-in sigs are not very WoT-friendly. Without gitian-gverify'ing a binary, the same thing is technically true from the perspective of people running the main bitcoin bins

00:08:13 BingoBoingo: Who would even use a QT client without compiling it so they could put in coin-control???

00:09:54 midnightmagic: trinque: It would be interesting, but he would instantly submarine the entire effort for sure.

00:11:54 midnightmagic: :-o only mike and gavin are publishing gitian sigs for the result. On the small chance they are doing something sneaky, if you gitian and find a mismatch, you could kill xt in about 20 minutes of compile-time per-release.

00:12:28 trinque: really depends on the difference between weakening in some subtle way vs putting some explicit back-door

00:12:39 trinque: but sure, something overt would be tactically stupid on their part

00:12:48 midnightmagic: true enough

00:14:07 midnightmagic: They've claimed that with the microscope on their efforts looking for bugs to discredit them, that this translates into equivalent-to-normal-auditing. (??)

00:14:56 shinohai: I don't even need a microscope. Naked eye working fine thus far.

00:16:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22341 @ 0.00074272 = 16.5931 BTC [+] {4}

00:28:54 BingoBoingo: Cmon Venus, beat that orc serena

00:34:19 BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski

00:34:55 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: oh the williams sisters are going at it in a major ? that doesn't happen often enough

00:35:30 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm not watching it, just bet. Watching "To Catch a Contractor" instead

00:35:58 pete_dushenski: aha. is that a show or a movie then ?

00:37:02 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's a show, a true gem. Really destroys one's faith in American real estate

00:37:54 pete_dushenski: i've been trying to put my finger on this mats guy for a while, ever since the decimation episode, and i think i've distilled it. without further ado :

00:37:59 pete_dushenski: !rate mats -1 drama queen http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amats+drama

00:37:59 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a7adc39df7b1380d

00:38:00 assbot: 6 results for 'from:mats drama' - #bitcoin-assets search

00:38:13 BingoBoingo: Features Adam Corolla, also known as low rent Tim Allen

00:38:27 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.mats.-1:33fbc075d363f966c5a2041fe3ce19f176f71eec14fdd72e3cdee9400bc41912

00:38:27 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for mats with note: drama queen http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amats+drama

00:38:51 BingoBoingo: !rated mats

00:38:51 assbot: You rated user mats on 28-Aug-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Around a while in various forms.

00:39:27 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-09-2015#1261218 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1264688 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-09-2015#1266617 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-09-2015#1259365 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-09-2015#1259164 << moar

00:39:27 assbot: Logged on 03-09-2015 05:46:51; mats: you hate me

00:39:27 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 01:00:03; mats: your mom

00:39:27 assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 20:54:05; mats: shots fired

00:39:27 assbot: Logged on 02-09-2015 00:33:47; mats: whoa, whoa, such cynicism

00:39:27 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 21:45:54; mats: this is not reassuring

00:39:51 pete_dushenski: i get the sense that it's more than sarcasm coming from mats and i dun take kindly to it.

00:40:20 BingoBoingo: At least this is the healthy sort of dissent

00:40:49 pete_dushenski: myeah

00:41:13 *: ben_vulpes frowns.

00:41:21 pete_dushenski: it's not like i expect him to go anywhere a la pankkake, tat, or decimation, but i don't trust him.

00:41:23 cazalla: logged into the qntra twitter account.. http://i.imgur.com/lBu5pin.png and then! http://i.imgur.com/lrMj3py.png

00:41:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1g8jY7y )

00:41:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1g8jY7D )

00:41:40 pete_dushenski: cazalla: they say it's lonely at the top

00:41:42 ben_vulpes: not really how this is supposed to work.

00:42:31 cazalla: i like how the text "no thanks" and "yes" are smaller than big blue buttons that work in their favour

00:42:47 BingoBoingo: I think mats is getting polish. He claims a knowledge base which explains a lotta cognitive dissonance that appears on subjects like ASLR (For the record I use an OS with ASLR by default)

00:42:49 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: dude's manufacturing discontent. what.

00:44:34 *: BingoBoingo learned more in fewer spans than those in which asciilifeform and mats have discursively danced. I really clear up what the traditional common wisdom has been.

00:46:08 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Why do we need to find people?

00:46:13 pete_dushenski: http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ << A) A Culture of Honor in part 6 aptly describes the wot

00:46:15 assbot: Where microaggressions really come from: A sociological account | The Righteous Mind ... ( http://bit.ly/1g8kylG )

00:46:50 cazalla: BingoBoingo, we don't, but apparently our friends are finding it difficult to find us

00:47:41 pete_dushenski: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-08/russia-s-main-bourse-says-trading-halted-across-all-markets << usians not the only ones with 'blow-off valves'

00:47:53 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, maybe we celebrate our fifth birthday with a 500 kilowatt AM station?

00:49:56 cazalla: we could use my 5 watts for 1st birthday but.. no licence lol

00:51:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00074423 = 9.4145 BTC [+] {3}

00:53:26 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Wouldn't be the same unless we got the money to hire a hot chick to read it

00:53:46 BingoBoingo: !up benkay

00:53:57 BingoBoingo: benkay: On webchat?

00:54:05 benkay: what discontent pete

00:54:14 benkay: bb mhm

00:54:29 benkay: and what moreove is wrong with it

00:55:08 benkay: you want further homogeneity? in the cult?

00:55:39 mircea_popescu: !up Jrum

00:55:42 benkay: additionally, i do not see substantiation of the drama claims.

00:56:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266760 << the idea of children being -ev is so counter-historical.

00:56:08 assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 23:36:03; ben_vulpes: eh, just pay for the children.

00:56:29 *: BingoBoingo has yet to see pete_dushenski talk about wishes to leave a tract of geography disputed by two Satans

00:57:08 mircea_popescu: "s-as-effort-to-rescue-bitcoin-falters" hahahaha WHAT ?

00:57:17 mircea_popescu: they didn't manage to save it like syria or wut ?

00:57:44 benkay: i retain hope mine'll be +ev. like my wife. unlike anyone elses.

00:57:47 BingoBoingo: No, Greece and Hungary are supposed to save Syria by becoming Syria mircea_popescu

00:57:52 mircea_popescu: !s from:trinque technologyreview

00:57:53 assbot: 0 results for 'from:trinque technologyreview' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Atrinque+technologyreview

00:57:56 mircea_popescu: odd.

00:57:59 benkay: (apparently)

00:58:28 mircea_popescu: hope is what the world spins on.

00:58:44 pete_dushenski: benkay: what happened to the 'ben_vulpes

00:58:54 pete_dushenski: *' experiment ?

00:59:34 *: BingoBoingo guessing ben_vulpes is at a bar

01:04:57 pete_dushenski: "I thought the support BitcoinXT had was way bigger because of so many people praising it on /r/Bitcoin. I wanted to help scale bitcoin so I spent about $200 to set up 10 BitcoinXT nodes for a month."

01:05:06 pete_dushenski: "The $200 I spent was almost 1/3 of my bitcoin savings and I regret wasting my money on this. Maybe I will keep running BitcoinXT at home but I haven't decided."

01:05:18 pete_dushenski: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3k0imx/the_number_of_xt_blocks_in_the_last_1000_is/ << sweet redditard tears

01:05:19 assbot: The number of XT blocks in the last 1000 is almost back to zero : bitcoinxt ... ( http://bit.ly/1g8mz1l )

01:05:49 shinohai: LOL pete_dushenski thanks for logging that

01:06:07 danielpbarron: hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone

01:06:32 pete_dushenski: shinohai: np :)

01:06:45 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: and sounds like you've made a pretty penny off that investment too

01:06:53 danielpbarron: we'll see

01:07:40 danielpbarron: i win all the auctions -- doesn't mean i'm profiting :/

01:07:41 shinohai: I spent most of my BTC on stuff I *still use*

01:07:51 shinohai: Not fleeting fads

01:08:00 mats: ah, my first neg rate

01:08:02 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: very true.

01:08:18 BingoBoingo: hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone << Exchange rate adjusted I have spent more drinking at 2nd Mardi gras

01:08:25 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: what, did the nick disconnect while i wasn't looking?

01:08:31 danielpbarron: not sure if shinohai's comment is directed at Eulora, but it's 1) not fleeting and 2) i still have the stuff i bought

01:08:45 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: looks like, ya

01:08:46 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I hope you are at least reading EVE-Online history

01:08:49 shinohai: No danielpbarron not directed at you or Eulora, at XT

01:09:01 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: the "experiment", i mean.

01:09:19 BingoBoingo: ah, my first neg rate << a test and a milestone

01:09:19 shinohai: Euora I would consider a good investment, and will when I buy my next computer

01:09:24 mats: in the service of that note, i can't say i particularly care about a guy whose chief 'contribution' is blathering at length on a blog

01:09:32 mats: carry on

01:09:36 BingoBoingo: Oh Shit

01:09:52 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: benkay has left IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)

01:10:01 BingoBoingo: God Damn, Let me see those hips swing

01:10:07 ben_vulpes: benkay: what happened to the 'ben_vulpes

01:10:07 ben_vulpes: *' experiment ?

01:10:12 ben_vulpes: the.

01:10:13 ben_vulpes: experiment.

01:10:16 ben_vulpes: did it disconnect?

01:10:25 *: trinque wonders wtf is going on

01:11:05 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i just saw 'benkay' logged in and was inquiring, as i hadn't seen that handle in a coon's age.

01:11:13 BingoBoingo: Everything and nothing is going on. Which is why mircea_popescu's Bitcoin exam will eventually need metaphysics and biology sections

01:11:48 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: i just saw 'benkay' logged in and was inquiring, as i hadn't seen that handle in a coon's age. << Coon vernacular for that period of time is "a minute" now

01:12:05 pete_dushenski: for serial ?

01:12:16 *: danielpbarron nods

01:12:19 pete_dushenski: so coon's age is a short time period ??

01:12:34 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, just a minute is a long time nao

01:12:46 danielpbarron: no, a "minute" is a long time in the retarded brains of today's youth

01:13:13 danielpbarron: a vine clip is 6 seconds and that's already pushing it

01:13:18 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Nah, just in the minds of the Urban youth blessed by the #gayfish in chief

01:13:39 pete_dushenski: ;;ud coon's age

01:13:40 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Coons+Age | Jonny, I haven't see you in a coon's age, How the hell are you? by Tbone ... I've been waiting a Coon's Age for you to get your sorry keister out of the bathroom!

01:14:00 ben_vulpes: anyways, pete_dushenski, i'd love to talk some day when you've got something other than "lol ur handle bro" lined up

01:14:45 BingoBoingo: ;;ud coon's age << But biologically a coon's maximum lifespan is 18 months to 36 months

01:15:49 *: ben_vulpes dosimieter

01:16:15 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: You should try the newsmines

01:18:19 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: wasn't lolin' man, was just wondering what the occasion was !

01:19:46 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266855 << not particularly. but the disagreement should be productive, not 'please explain why i shouldn't use winbloze' level

01:19:46 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:55:08; benkay: you want further homogeneity? in the cult?

01:19:58 asciilifeform: dulap therealbitcoin node going down starting now.

01:20:25 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: and i'm none too amused by 'oh no she didn't' 'oh yes she did' banter either

01:20:55 pete_dushenski: it's not helpful and it's not constructive

01:26:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: dulap removed from -addnode on my machines, restarted

01:27:15 mats: howbout reasons why win10 ain't so bad as win7, 8, 8.1.

01:27:23 shinohai: http://www.attactics.org/2015/09/windows-10-extracting-hashes-plaintext.html

01:27:24 assbot: attactics[dot]org: Extracting Hashes & Plaintext Passwords from Windows 10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1g8oQJK )

01:27:35 mats: not because i'm trying to convince anyone to use it, but maybe, zoological purposes

01:27:52 mats: seems nobody is really talking about how 'CFG' is enabled by default in win10

01:28:11 mats: 'control flow guard', which verifies functions at call sites, ensuring target is in fact a function.

01:29:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.0007418 = 18.545 BTC [-]

01:29:12 BingoBoingo: Telemetry kinda kills Win 10, but now also kills Win 8 and 7

01:29:12 mats: there are also new security features that have been rolled out over the last year, ie, isolated heap and deferred free lists

01:29:30 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you've got mail

01:29:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:29:52 pete_dushenski: well, choir practise beckons, gents. hasta luego!

01:30:01 shinohai: Nos veremos

01:30:11 mats: the CFG implementation is quite weak based on a cursory inspection, but in general all this stuff raises the cost of attack

01:30:39 mircea_popescu: mats which incidentally is a valid point re your earlier "gps beacon" considerations.

01:30:50 mircea_popescu: resistence is not about DOING anything, but merely preventing the enemy from doing his stupid shit.

01:31:04 mircea_popescu: so yes, even with the cctv bla bla. not driving a gps beacon is that much better.

01:31:57 asciilifeform: mats: how does any of it raise the cost of usg using its dedicated pwnholes ?

01:32:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.

01:32:42 mats: it doesn't. but random passerby has to spend a shiny dime for the privilege of diddling your box

01:32:54 mircea_popescu: those are least concern tho

01:33:52 mats: i have never ventured the opinion these mitigations actually defend against MS, INTC, USG, etc...

01:34:15 mircea_popescu: what good are they then ?

01:34:19 mircea_popescu: there is no enemy but the enemy.

01:34:24 BingoBoingo: those are least concern tho << I'm not sure least concern. Lesser concern, yes. Probably by attack frequency not least.

01:34:29 mats: i'm a researcher. not a defender offering his opinion on how to defend a winbox.

01:34:41 mircea_popescu: ah now that's a point

01:35:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No point being able to beat full USG if vulnerable to papersigners like new look voorhes and shren at the same time.

01:36:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19722 @ 0.00074179 = 14.6296 BTC [-] {2}

01:36:38 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the idea there is that in any situation of scarce resources, you pick the main threat and work towards that. working towards lesser threats is a waste of your resources and promises to paint you in the corner of a local maximum.

01:36:50 mircea_popescu: it is exactly how the middle class usian became a captive of ipad and suburbia.

01:37:00 mircea_popescu: they didn't want to fight the government, but niggas passing by

01:37:02 BingoBoingo: And so it is

01:37:02 mircea_popescu: and well...

01:37:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82559 @ 0.0007462 = 61.6055 BTC [+] {7}

01:38:43 *: BingoBoingo would like to see moar weirdix and weirdonet adapters

01:38:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, it rebooted TWICE AGAIN last night

01:38:58 mats: that some folks suggest the substance of any of my debates begin with 'so explain why i shouldn't windows' indicates they've no idea whats actually being discussed

01:39:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was down for 2 1/2 hours total, even.

01:39:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15809 @ 0.00074743 = 11.8161 BTC [+] {3}

01:39:29 mircea_popescu: i guess the gig is ip

01:39:30 mircea_popescu: up*

01:39:56 *: mircea_popescu waves to the poor unfortunate schmuck stuck in this particular shitty job.

01:40:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see gpggram for another interesting tidbit.

01:42:30 *: BingoBoingo wonders if there are any li-polymer batteries that fit in 2.5" drive bays

01:42:54 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: batteries are a trivial thing, this is not the hard part.

01:43:34 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, making sure everything else is batteried a bit harder, keeping Satan out much harder

01:44:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the hard part is that the box is physically in the hands of a liar and a traitor

01:44:44 BingoBoingo: There is little recourse possible if the Great Red Dragon and God's lamb decide to wage the final battle of mortal existance in the same toom machine is

01:44:48 BingoBoingo: That too

01:45:35 BingoBoingo: definition: toom = the interior space of a tomb

01:46:06 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266861 << rescue!!11111 destroy the village to save it!

01:46:06 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:57:08; mircea_popescu: "s-as-effort-to-rescue-bitcoin-falters" hahahaha WHAT ?

01:46:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lulziest part is that this is OFFICIAL usg newspeak. e.g., police 'swat' tanks in my town have big fat RESCUE stencilled on the side

01:47:06 asciilifeform: they stand ready to 'rescue' folks with hot lead.

01:47:22 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/09/consumers-begin-revolting-bitcoin-is-not-visa/ << this was actually a great read.

01:47:23 assbot: Consumers Begin Revolting, Bitcoin Is Not Visa | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1VMnHYs )

01:48:31 BingoBoingo: It was, major props to thestringpuller

01:48:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266858 << the mains socket is equally counter-historical, aha

01:48:48 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:56:08; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266760 << the idea of children being -ev is so counter-historical.

01:49:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technology and the spawn of women are not like things, plox no spurious comparisons.

01:49:57 asciilifeform: but not unrelated - what exactly was ever +ev about offspring once they could no longer be harnessed to the plow, or run the shop ?

01:50:07 mircea_popescu: i'll consider such arguments once you can take the 3yo product of white woman, put it in cage with 3yo product of thirld world woman, and it emerges victorious. every time.

01:50:25 mircea_popescu: that consideration makes zero difference doesn't it.

01:50:38 mircea_popescu: "i'm only worthless because X" is of no practical importance.

01:51:27 asciilifeform: turd world is riding the back of the very same train, give'em time.

01:52:03 mircea_popescu: aite.

01:52:31 asciilifeform: and if everything were settled via cage match, we would not be having this particular set of problems

01:53:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266784 << lulz of all time.

01:53:02 assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 23:46:49; trinque: binary releases..

01:53:13 *: asciilifeform recalls the legend where saddam h. supposedly challenged bush II to gladiatorial combat, in lieu of war

01:53:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you wish to say "kids are like socket mains" then you must show that white woman kid beats random kid eighty million tries out of eighty million.

01:54:11 asciilifeform: nah, meant that the -ev thing is strictly a result of events which have no historical parallels

01:54:23 asciilifeform: not that there is some hidden up-side to it

01:54:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00074213 = 18.5533 BTC [-]

01:54:41 mircea_popescu: like what events ?

01:55:38 asciilifeform: prohibitions (in the west, mainly) on 'child labour' etc

01:55:48 mircea_popescu: the spawn of greek speaking white women in constantinople cca 1200 was equally worthless.

01:55:56 asciilifeform: the extension of 'education' to even 30 y.o.

01:55:56 mircea_popescu: plenty of historical parallels.

01:56:07 mircea_popescu: yup.

01:56:16 mircea_popescu: byzantine man was schooled up to ~30

01:56:28 asciilifeform: i suppose if these count, then we can also count mazdakism in persia

01:56:33 mircea_popescu: even a few emperors "too young" to assume the crown atthat age

01:56:37 mircea_popescu: yup.

01:56:37 asciilifeform: 1000 yrs yet before byzantium

01:56:45 asciilifeform: then yes, mircea_popescu has it.

01:56:53 mircea_popescu: and there's at least hte sad end of the manchuko in china

01:56:54 mircea_popescu: etc

01:57:16 mircea_popescu: but iirc this sort of fail was on a ~1400 year period in that place.

01:57:34 mircea_popescu: ie happened on record like 5-6 times already

01:58:27 BingoBoingo: Sparta still feared by Huns through 900 AD

01:59:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266803 << ahahaha what ?!

01:59:13 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:14:07; midnightmagic: They've claimed that with the microscope on their efforts looking for bugs to discredit them, that this translates into equivalent-to-normal-auditing. (??)

01:59:18 mircea_popescu: nobody gives a flyiong fuck what they do.

01:59:29 asciilifeform: bbbbbut mit !!1111!111!!1

01:59:30 mircea_popescu: and i mean that in the most literal sense. i doubt even the computers bother reading their code.

02:01:51 BingoBoingo: bbbbbut mit !!1111!111!!1 << At the point MIT Technology review loses to qntra...

02:02:31 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mit dead tree press has been a sad circus, with 'privilege' on every catalogue page, and 'climate' in every other title, for many years.

02:03:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but qntra won rather quicly

02:03:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097985 << see also

02:03:26 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:55:30; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my first gig out of school was at an abominable usg-contracting salt mine where little gurlz straight out of mit, for that fact alone, were promoted, repeatedly, over everyone else's head

02:03:42 mircea_popescu: lmao. so there exists an #anonops on freenode. nobody there, bout half dozen amazon shells.

02:04:42 shinohai: lol

02:04:56 asciilifeform: https://anonops.com << them ?

02:04:56 assbot: AnonOps • Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1K6mWkP )

02:05:10 asciilifeform: what a cheap honeypot

02:06:02 mircea_popescu: ?under federal law, a judge is technically allowed to sentence a defendant based on conduct that was uncharged, [or]charged and dismissed, or even charged and acquitted. That?s because the standard of proof at trial is beyond a reasonable doubt while the standard of proof at sentencing is by a preponderance, i.e. more likely than not. [?] The government can dismiss charges if it wishes, but if the court thinks yo

02:06:02 mircea_popescu: u probably did it, you can still be sentenced based on those charges. [?] Essentially, the government loses but then gets to punish you anyway.?

02:06:04 mircea_popescu: lmao

02:06:25 mircea_popescu: can't even spell preponderence.

02:06:31 shinohai: There was an i2p irc they had for a while too iirc

02:06:53 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'they' == usg

02:07:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'loses' is a smoke screen to begin with. usg never really loses a trial, how could it

02:08:02 shinohai: Anon movement never was my thing, seemed quite silly.

02:08:19 mircea_popescu: oh, but it could.

02:08:19 asciilifeform: it isn't as if these trials took place in the court of some independent sovereign

02:08:30 asciilifeform: they take place in usg fortresses

02:08:30 mircea_popescu: the brits never won a trial in imperial india, not ever.

02:09:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, note the incredibly braindamaged defense put up by one caduddu

02:10:01 mircea_popescu: the first mistake these folks make is accepting the inept counsel.

02:11:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00074769 = 23.5522 BTC [+]

02:12:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266842 << ->> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998185

02:12:06 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:46:13; pete_dushenski: http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ << A) A Culture of Honor in part 6 aptly describes the wot

02:12:06 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:51:36; mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.

02:12:11 BingoBoingo: ?under federal law, a judge is technically allowed to sentence a defendant based on conduct that was uncharged, [or]charged and dismissed, or even charged and acquitted. That?s because the standard of proof at trial is beyond a reasonable doubt while the standard of proof at sentencing is by a preponderance, i.e. more likely than not. [?] The government can dismiss charges if it wishes, but if the court thin

02:12:11 BingoBoingo: ks yo << And people were wondering why I wouldn't just plea out and pay a fine

02:12:22 mircea_popescu: "microagressions" come from a world that's not starshaped with the "usg" at the center of all things.

02:12:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yep. only right move.

02:12:54 mircea_popescu: don't sign with the devil. you will live to regret it if you do.

02:13:02 mircea_popescu: like shrem, like esr, like EVERYONE who ever did.

02:13:35 BingoBoingo: "misdemeanor" isn't such anymoar

02:14:23 *: BingoBoingo this weekend may have actually met targeted operation. Some nigga found me at the bar and kept trying to sell me drugs.

02:14:54 BingoBoingo: Spotted me specifically, made a bit of smalltalk and then than coon tried to sell me the entire spectrum of drugs.

02:14:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't know of any reason to think that esr regrets turning; he probably regrets not taking sufficiently many 'pieces of silver'

02:15:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same thing.

02:15:16 mircea_popescu: so does shrem. obviously he's not one bit sorry he fucked the goat.

02:15:21 mircea_popescu: he just wishes he had more to show for it.

02:16:04 mircea_popescu: but this is also the problem : you will never be able to get a sufficient number of "nothing". the devil's giold coins have this way of turning to leaves in your hands

02:16:18 mircea_popescu: that;s kinda the point of the whole "you're his now"

02:16:23 asciilifeform: aha

02:16:29 asciilifeform: this is an ancient idea, even

02:16:37 asciilifeform: recurs in myth and legend

02:16:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo next time film him, put him online.

02:16:51 mircea_popescu: really butthurts low level wanna-be undercover agents.

02:17:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.

02:18:18 BingoBoingo: BingoBoingo next time film him, put him online. << He may or may not have been recorded. If his handlers read this they probably ought to see if their agent has a file with one of the more trusted local constables.

02:18:20 *: asciilifeform just pried open a crate of ru dead tree material concerning crypto research, some of it historical, most of it entirely unavailable in en

02:18:52 mircea_popescu: in other news today, asciilifeform reads by the crate.

02:19:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it had to go on a boat!

02:19:12 BingoBoingo: I thought it was known ascii only read by the crate

02:19:59 asciilifeform: very spiffy little monograph on a/v stego in there, as well

02:20:15 asciilifeform: and a tome on polymorphic virii.

02:21:14 *: asciilifeform usually reads by the MB, but sometimes - by the crate.

02:22:42 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i confess that i imagine you living in a proper old west town, with saloon, with spittoon

02:24:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266831 << i don't know the fella personally, but as i gather his main problem is starvation. it makes people foolish, i speak from experience

02:24:59 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:41:21; pete_dushenski: it's not like i expect him to go anywhere a la pankkake, tat, or decimation, but i don't trust him.

02:26:50 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266873 << how much megablox-moving-horsepower does one get for 20 usd/mo, exactly...?

02:26:50 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:04:57; pete_dushenski: "I thought the support BitcoinXT had was way bigger because of so many people praising it on /r/Bitcoin. I wanted to help scale bitcoin so I spent about $200 to set up 10 BitcoinXT nodes for a month."

02:28:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he didn't think that far ahead.

02:28:39 mircea_popescu: derp on a 500 bucks budget blows half of it to cover a month of random retardation he found on the net.

02:28:45 mircea_popescu: these people have less sense than the average insect.

02:28:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00074769 = 18.4679 BTC [+]

02:29:21 asciilifeform: 500 bux would buy a very decent pistol to eat !

02:29:48 mircea_popescu: not in the us.

02:30:01 asciilifeform: sure it does

02:30:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, am i mistaken ?

02:30:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266887 << i managed to lose one of a set of historical bitcoin cufflinks last week. they cost more than his budget back before they became historical.

02:30:55 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:08:18; BingoBoingo: hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone << Exchange rate adjusted I have spent more drinking at 2nd Mardi gras

02:31:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of this, does kakobrekla's magical car still run ?

02:31:34 mircea_popescu: wait you're askinbg me ?

02:31:35 BingoBoingo: BingoBoingo, am i mistaken ? << $500 in US could buy quality eating pistol

02:32:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a nagant, circa 1940s, sells for around 100 usd iirc. so the reddit fella could, if he had a bit of budget left, literally eat nagant.

02:32:55 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even with more familiar stuff plenty of 1911 clones floating around $350 to $450 new

02:33:25 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, if for eating, doesn't much matter if the nonpressurized parts are of zamac

02:33:44 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And if willing to eat rifle Mosins around $200

02:33:54 BingoBoingo: BingoBoingo: aha, if for eating, doesn't much matter if the nonpressurized parts are of zamac << Yes

02:34:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266921 << dosimIeter check him out, he's developing a russki accent now.

02:34:36 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:15:49; *: ben_vulpes dosimieter

02:34:46 asciilifeform: l0l

02:36:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266935 << how the fuck is this even supposed to work ?

02:36:14 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:28:11; mats: 'control flow guard', which verifies functions at call sites, ensuring target is in fact a function.

02:36:23 mircea_popescu: gotta leave symbols table in elfxecutables or what ?

02:36:30 asciilifeform: elf l0l

02:36:34 mircea_popescu: :)

02:36:37 asciilifeform: it's winblowz he spoke of, no ?

02:36:39 asciilifeform: pe !

02:36:39 mircea_popescu: ya

02:36:58 asciilifeform: they haven't got tables of anything, just shit soup.

02:37:07 BingoBoingo: Everyone knows MP is a darkELF on PDP-99

02:37:17 mircea_popescu: wiatwut

02:37:58 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I though you manced the necros? Isn't that what dark ELF's do?

02:38:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00074846 = 24.9986 BTC [+] {4}

02:38:11 mircea_popescu: but srsly, if anyone who understands these things is willing to explain it to me, how exactly is the kernel going to "verify target is in fact a function" ?

02:38:31 mircea_popescu: doesn't even seem a halt-decidable problem

02:38:40 cazalla: BingoBoingo, seriously now.. iksar necro far cooler than delf necro

02:39:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i had to guess, would say that it checks for a standard prologue before jumping to the return addr found on stack

02:39:13 mircea_popescu: and this helps because...

02:39:19 asciilifeform: ask microshit not me.

02:39:19 *: BingoBoingo wonders why kernel ought to care

02:39:23 asciilifeform: or ask mats, aha.

02:39:27 mircea_popescu: things that aren't functions that got injected couldn't have the extra fixed payload injected along ?

02:39:29 mats: it prevents rop chains

02:39:35 mircea_popescu: but it doesn't ?

02:40:07 asciilifeform: mats: nope. so i jump to somewhere that has the prologue. solved.

02:40:19 mats: yes

02:40:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it.

02:40:28 mircea_popescu: every time the endless chorus of people that keep repeating "no srsly, ms improved" gets me to believe it on a simple "regression to mean" theory, shit like this happens

02:40:44 mircea_popescu: and im like no, wtf, this is like 1990 all over again

02:41:25 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is Soviet Eeyore also a sad donkey?

02:41:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: microshit has not improved a single thing it touched, from z80 rom basic, xenix, msdos (yes), to this day

02:41:29 mats: it doesn't protect against all forms of control flow hijacking

02:41:34 mircea_popescu: not that the general problem of "i will now emit a string of bits and you tell me if this is a function" isn't a very interesting ai topic.

02:41:36 BingoBoingo: Or is he jaundiced instead of Pooh?

02:41:36 mircea_popescu: but srsly...

02:41:51 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nobody is jaundiced in ru transl. of pooh

02:42:01 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Wow

02:42:29 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: see https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1438&bih=2473&q=%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8+%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%85 etc

02:42:30 assbot: винни пух - Recherche Google ... ( http://bit.ly/1ETm72B )

02:42:54 asciilifeform: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5702/65435673.1d1/0_87bdb_b406c8ac_orig << american pooh

02:42:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ETm9Yj )

02:42:55 mircea_popescu: o look, alf also knows google img search short form.

02:44:52 *: BingoBoingo jealous RU pooh has claws

02:46:11 asciilifeform: so today i cut open the winblowz version of 'derive', v.6. it has mulisp buried in there!! a 32-bit version thereof. hand-coded in asm, at least partly.

02:46:25 mircea_popescu: lol

02:46:29 asciilifeform: dwarfed by the gui crud

02:46:49 asciilifeform: (hastily welded on, it is elephantine for the time, hundreds of kB!)

02:47:34 asciilifeform: mulisp has an interestingly forth-like self-mod compiler

02:47:52 asciilifeform: very stimulating reading.

02:48:10 BingoBoingo: so today i cut open the winblowz version of 'derive', v.6. it has mulisp buried in there!! a 32-bit version thereof. hand-coded in asm, at least partly. << I my cursory seach Texas Instruments apparently "owns" derive

02:48:34 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they have what, three separate product lines based on it? no shit

02:48:42 asciilifeform: (not incl. the pc version, which was discontinued a decade ago)

02:48:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Butt, Butt, Butts they depreciated it for ARM shit

02:49:04 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: still runs it

02:49:33 asciilifeform: i will add that it is not actually easy to write a useful computeralgebratron.

02:49:39 asciilifeform: ask anyone who's tried.

02:49:41 BingoBoingo: Not that they will admit. "Totally supplanted by 'NSpire' thing"

02:51:49 *: BingoBoingo filling up on ETOH to try to reclaim last week's useful qntra venom

03:05:35 BingoBoingo: !up bounce

03:06:04 mats: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/Sources-We-were-pressured-to-weaken-the-mobile-security-in-the-80s-7413285.html << some engineers finally come out with the story

03:06:05 assbot: Sources: We were pressured to weaken the mobile security in the 80's - Aftenposten ... ( http://bit.ly/1ETqn2f )

03:06:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Damn it, you got me looking at TI-92's nao

03:15:49 asciilifeform: mats: ancient news

03:16:48 *: asciilifeform bbl

03:18:34 *: BingoBoingo rolls around in some jools hoping they embed in the skin

03:31:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00075346 = 14.0897 BTC [+] {5}

03:33:08 ben_vulpes: "struggle session" << anyone have any decent literature? the only thing i can recall offhand is the book White Swans.

03:34:48 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: On that topic truly useful literature is going to be elusive

03:34:53 ben_vulpes: wild swans, i mean.

03:36:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27150 @ 0.00075451 = 20.4849 BTC [+] {3}

03:51:24 mircea_popescu: mats that's nice to have. i always puzzled over the incredibly poor security of mobile as a design decision

03:51:58 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what's your definition of decency ?

03:53:28 BingoBoingo: Decency == Bare Cunt, Big Nipples

03:54:25 ben_vulpes: primary sources ideally, first generation translations would be nice.

03:54:49 ben_vulpes: oh yeah and can't make modern readers think too hard about their own versions

03:55:51 mircea_popescu: ;;google 镇压反革命

03:55:52 gribble: Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries - Wikipedia, the free ...: ; Campanha de repressão aos contrarrevolucionários – Wikipédia, a ...: ; September 2015 | prchistory.org: (1 more message)

04:02:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5481 @ 0.00074932 = 4.107 BTC [-]

04:05:38 *: BingoBoingo becoming convinced no one does better blackface than the Japs

04:11:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00074932 = 7.0061 BTC [-]

04:11:58 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?

04:13:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet password lists. ESPEC

04:13:30 assbot: Logged on 05-09-2015 02:38:55; mircea_popescu: in today's lulz : it turns out that bitcoin-qt interface, if presented with a malformed value such as 1,275 btc instead of the 1.275 notation,

04:13:31 mircea_popescu: IALLY seeing how the fucktarded implementation of "accounts" etc pretty much ensures everyone will be using multiplew wallets.

04:16:40 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqfjiuqVrV4 << when usg says "jump," gates jumps !

04:16:41 assbot: Bill Gates jumping over a chair like a gangster - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ox8INT )

04:17:41 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano? << He only needs format comptibility

04:22:23 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1265774 << I hack it using the parenscript REPL you can find in the Masamune repository. Mozrepl (the basis) provides some very rudimentary debugging facities that tbh, I almost never use due to a burning hatred of js and no reason to ever sharpen that edge of the blade.

04:22:23 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:21:26; trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Conkeror has made its way into daily use; JS debugging tips? Best thing providing a JS REPL in Emacs?

04:24:02 gabriel_laddel: Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions...

04:24:52 gabriel_laddel: Something like 40% of the conkeror js translates to PS without signaling conditions using the included js->ps transpiler.

04:25:33 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1265693 << nifty

04:25:33 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 21:39:45; ascii_field: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://www.sigsam.org/bulletin/articles/178/stoutemyer.pdf << some actual implementation details re: 'derive' & 'mulisp'

04:25:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00074966 = 20.3158 BTC [+] {3}

04:27:07 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1265781 << I lol'd

04:27:07 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:28:45; trinque: davout: ruby is objectively butts. rebuttal?

04:32:17 BingoBoingo: Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions... << How is "improving:" and not "killing" the word here

04:32:19 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267085 << the famished take self-funded sabbaticals now ? not that mats is wealthy, but eating wallpaper he ain't.

04:32:19 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 02:24:59; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266831 << i don't know the fella personally, but as i gather his main problem is starvation. it makes people foolish, i speak from experience

04:32:49 pete_dushenski: though, yes, to be sure, hunger can make a man crazy.

04:33:11 pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.

04:33:59 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.

04:34:31 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sharp blades excise tumors like javascript

04:34:38 gabriel_laddel: whatever

04:34:44 gabriel_laddel: e.g., scriping combinations of browser movements, OCR routines and X windows level key-presses together for data mining

04:35:09 gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js

04:35:17 gabriel_laddel: just hack parenscript (which compiles down to JS)

04:35:23 gabriel_laddel: you get macros etc.

04:36:52 BingoBoingo: Scripting web content ought to entirely be the user's choice

04:37:38 gabriel_laddel: ?

04:37:41 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzIXy-oFlU << if anything is microaggression, this is it. unambiguously directed yet so far from lethal it's laughable.

04:37:42 assbot: Hungarian camerawoman fired after intentionally kicking, tripping refugees - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxbRxc )

04:37:49 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I don't think you have context here

04:38:28 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: A page is a document. Why should anyone other than the user impose any scripts upon the text?

04:39:03 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because I want your information pl0x and I'm not going to ask nicely.

04:39:36 BingoBoingo: Because FUCK YOU. Few things are worse than a textbooks with highlights already

04:40:37 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: it is quite obvious that I've poorly expressed exactly why the web interface for Masamune exists.

04:40:46 gabriel_laddel: I don't know wtf textbook highlighting has to do with anything

04:42:14 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: You have to understand I am appraoching this as a trained Librarian. Scripting is at best a form of highlighting (never a reason for broswerscript or postscript to be turing complete) Everything else it does is vandalism

04:42:31 gabriel_laddel: nah, you've got it backwards

04:42:47 gabriel_laddel: the correct model is that you never have a DSL or "mini-language"

04:43:00 gabriel_laddel: the full power of the machine should be yours, at all times

04:43:28 gabriel_laddel: Want to launch a 3D visualization from a button press in the back of the settings menu? Sure, why not.

04:43:37 BingoBoingo: Who are you pointing "yours" at?

04:44:06 gabriel_laddel: He who wields Masamune, a loper device, lispm etc.

04:45:26 BingoBoingo: I'm just wondering who at all should have to eat javascript asbestos to become a Great Red Dragon of the Information age.

04:45:27 punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?

04:46:13 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: Enough with the almost analogies already. They're an escape hatch to nowhere.

04:46:36 BingoBoingo: Fuck You Imma Dragon.

04:46:57 gabriel_laddel: punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language.

04:47:04 gabriel_laddel: one sec, thinking of an example...

04:47:05 BingoBoingo: This Dragon says No Javascript or experiance famine

04:47:56 BingoBoingo: punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language. << In nearly every case a 3rd part gives you code you don't want a full language. You want a plainly crippled language.

04:48:29 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: wrong wrong wrong, study more

04:49:13 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: If I want to print pretty papers I don't need, want, or desire turing complete postscript

04:49:27 trinque: not until you do

04:49:38 gabriel_laddel: punkman: the problem with creating "DSLs" in ALGOL is that you end up losing M-. (jump to definition) and any ability you may have had to interact with the AST of the previous programming language (read: the actual language, as it is the thing that contains all the semantics) when you change the syntax

04:49:41 trinque: better to be able to extend your DSL at will

04:50:02 gabriel_laddel: punkman: the whole DSL thing doesn't have a name in lisp because it isn't needed

04:50:25 gabriel_laddel: "Here are some abstractions, solve the problem." The end

04:50:47 BingoBoingo: The entire point of domain specific languages is shutting opportunities to drop turds everywhere out

04:51:28 punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"

04:51:39 gabriel_laddel: punkman: have you tried lisp yet?

04:51:42 trinque: BingoBoingo: dunno bout that; isn't it to model your problem in clear terms?

04:51:54 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: thins can all be done at the UI level

04:52:09 BingoBoingo: trinque: Yes, and almost always my problem is reading some fucking text

04:52:26 trinque: !up refferedbyloper

04:52:31 trinque: speak mortal!

04:52:36 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: hide it all behind Super-Meta-click and leave the rest to Congnition Stratifies(TM)

04:52:43 punkman: gabriel_laddel: I haven't because I don't wanna emacs

04:52:48 gabriel_laddel: punkman: okay, okay

04:52:56 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: No, You don't fucking make XML

04:53:03 gabriel_laddel: punkman: so when you create a new format or something in ALGOL you have to create a new parser right?

04:53:10 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: meh, I'm done here, read more or something

04:53:55 gabriel_laddel: punkman: and everytime this happens you need all new tooling for this new language, right?

04:54:20 gabriel_laddel: because you can't "get at" the AST, because that isn't how people naively write parsers.

04:54:37 gabriel_laddel: so, this doesn't happen in lisp because everything IS it's own AST, as is.

04:55:03 gabriel_laddel: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html#sec-6-2-1 << check the image here out

04:55:04 assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxemzJ )

04:55:47 gabriel_laddel: now, that AST (in blue) can be mapped, with no loss of information to the "lisp" (s-expression) under it: (/ (* (+ 3 2) 8) (* 3 (^ 3 6)))

04:56:01 trinque: gabriel_laddel: nice "hey look we invented lisp" at the beginning there

04:56:18 gabriel_laddel: punkman: When you hack lisp, everything "deals in" (modifies, returns) these structures.

04:56:25 gabriel_laddel: so you never have to write another parser

04:56:30 gabriel_laddel: and all your tooling always works

04:57:07 gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs

04:57:17 gabriel_laddel: which you already speak, because you're lisping

04:58:46 gabriel_laddel: trinque: at the beginning of (I'd assume "A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem" but don't see it there)?

04:59:41 trinque: gabriel_laddel: just the bit about how if we don't make all these assumptions about order of operations, and arrange things sensibly, we've got sexps

05:00:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40890 @ 0.000755 = 30.872 BTC [+] {6}

05:00:33 gabriel_laddel: trinque: Oh.

05:00:55 trinque: I taught someone a bit of scheme recently (alongside SICP) and used roughly that approach.

05:00:57 BingoBoingo: What part of the utterance "Fuck You" is formal enough to be an sexpr

05:01:25 trinque: started with math, said "what if we didn't have any order of operations except those explicitly stated, and also "wtf re: infix anyway?"

05:01:30 trinque: student got it just fine

05:02:16 gabriel_laddel: yeah

05:02:26 gabriel_laddel: nothing particularly challenging about it

05:02:27 BingoBoingo: Human language contains ambiguities, Machine languages are formal, why try to bin them together entirely?

05:02:37 trinque: gabriel_laddel: not at all; they've already learned more syntax via basic algebra

05:02:51 gabriel_laddel: good for them

05:02:52 trinque: BingoBoingo: not sure I hear the question

05:02:54 gabriel_laddel: trinque: hey guess what

05:03:03 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc

05:03:09 trinque: neato

05:03:15 gabriel_laddel: and figured out how to get and eval maxima ASTs

05:03:29 BingoBoingo: trinque: No question, FYIAD

05:04:11 gabriel_laddel: Partially through translating the imaxima LaTeX stuff such that you can take a maxima AST, view it as LaTeX, maxima syntax or lisp all at the CLIM listener.

05:04:15 trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary

05:04:40 trinque: gabriel_laddel: sounds very nice

05:04:47 gabriel_laddel: Reader macros also allow you to deal with syntax mechanically for whatever it's worth.

05:05:13 trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit

05:05:18 BingoBoingo: Parse less of everything.

05:05:19 trinque: never found a use for them in my own code to date

05:05:31 gabriel_laddel: trinque: reader macros or macros?

05:06:00 trinque: haven't used either for anything aside from regular macros to make some stumpwm config prettier

05:06:06 gabriel_laddel: ah

05:06:08 trinque: and that was more or less looking for a reason

05:13:50 *: BingoBoingo wonders when unblemished text became the problem.

05:14:14 BingoBoingo: WHy do such things need parsed by machine?

05:15:55 trinque: no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is.

05:15:59 BingoBoingo: When did graphs in D3 become essential and not luxuries

05:16:38 trinque: XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much

05:17:01 BingoBoingo: no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is. << And at what point should barin authored text end and machine authored text begin?

05:17:22 trinque: in my opinion one is a subset of the other

05:17:28 trinque: supposing your syntax has a "here be dragons" token

05:17:33 gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminating to go a littl

05:17:33 gabriel_laddel: e bit further back, to the Middle Ages. One of its characteristics was that 'reasoning by analogy' was rampant; another characteristic was almost total intellectual stagnation, and we now see why the two go together. A reason for mentioning this is to point out that, by developing a keen ear for unwarranted analogies, one can detect a lot of medieval thinking today." -- https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/

05:17:33 gabriel_laddel: EWD10xx/EWD1036.html

05:17:39 BingoBoingo: XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much << It is, and When gabriel_laddel talks massamune unfortunately I read XML or XML with paren

05:17:59 trinque: we shall see; guy hasn't released anything yet and signed his name thereupon

05:19:11 BingoBoingo: But even in LISP people there is a divide between machine language and "people" language. One can not adequately enjoy the lamentations of enemy women in machine language

05:19:27 gabriel_laddel: I cut 3 paragraphs from that quote, which are quite relevent to this conversation.

05:19:40 BingoBoingo: dpaste? deedbot?

05:19:58 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I swear to you that you can input arbitrary strings in LISP.

05:20:11 trinque: "here be dragons" was poetic license for that

05:20:22 trinque: any grammar can just say "here's the header, here's the footer, go nuts kid"

05:20:30 BingoBoingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtXZScvbdcs

05:20:31 assbot: Lil Debbie - LOFTY - Official Video - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oxipfe )

05:20:35 trinque: you know... like strings

05:20:56 gabriel_laddel: trinque: lol, we understand each other. BingoBoingo doesn't though.

05:21:08 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: But at some point people want to put arbitray string on their own.

05:21:29 trinque: nothing can be on its own

05:21:35 BingoBoingo: The point where you decide to eat javascript is the point you go coprophilliac for satan

05:22:11 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: why take my (or anyone else's) word for it, spin up an SBCL REPL.

05:22:21 gabriel_laddel: apt-get install sbcl or whatever.

05:22:54 BingoBoingo: Cutting HTML, markdown, or postscript to bare text is fine. Cutting javascript to OMGWTFBBQ 3D graphs but translated is the devil incarnate.

05:23:26 BingoBoingo: If you catch the devil hold him close for you shall not catch him again.

05:23:46 trinque: are we talking about the web here?

05:23:57 trinque: or generally that there should be more text-only content?

05:24:18 trinque: I would agree that where the written word is concerned, please do not give me a single-page JS app

05:24:29 gabriel_laddel: trinque: he is discussing nope.js, the javascript to parenscript transpiler

05:24:34 BingoBoingo: trinque: I am referring to the latter in reference to gabriel_laddel's assertion javascript should be parsed at all.

05:24:34 gabriel_laddel: (partially complete)

05:24:44 trinque: mein gott

05:24:44 gabriel_laddel: (it does an old version of JS)

05:24:56 BingoBoingo: No version of JS is acceptable

05:25:55 BingoBoingo: No version of postscript is acceptable either unless read with eyes and generated with TeX under careful watch with rifle at hand.

05:26:10 gabriel_laddel: srsly gtfo

05:26:26 BingoBoingo: Srsly we are dealing with the devil and his works

05:26:53 trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow

05:27:01 trinque: I tend to lean the way deedbot.org looks

05:27:16 pete_dushenski: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/08/a-white-guy-named-michael-couldnt-get-his-poem-published-then-he-became-yi-fen-chou/ << "Hudson’s critics said the literary bait-and-switch was fraudulent, racist and fundamentally different from Charlotte Bronte publishing “Jane Eyre” under the name Currer Bell."

05:27:17 assbot: A white guy named Michael couldn’t get his poem published. Then he became Yi-Fen Chou. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0tS81 )

05:27:20 BingoBoingo: I'm not about to feed nytimes.com into anything that would do other than discard its JS

05:27:23 trinque: but I've written some parenscript and it worked fine, and kept my brain from having context-switch fatigue

05:28:53 trinque: the languages are close enough that it's really just an alternate JS syntax; not like you're compiling haskell to JS

05:29:01 punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.

05:29:03 trinque: the JS output is entirely readable

05:29:14 trinque: punkman: yeah well I don't start with boil the ocean

05:29:24 trinque: but that'd be cool.

05:29:25 BingoBoingo: trinque: I may be drunk so I may not have started my objections at the right place. Whatever code you privately jizz onto servers is yours. Code you try to make other people execute is a crime.

05:29:40 trinque: now that's a place to begin talking.

05:29:46 BingoBoingo: punkman: I'm liking Dillo a lot.

05:30:29 trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind

05:30:55 gabriel_laddel: punkman: trinque: the idea here is to use nope.js on conkeror, which is written in js

05:30:58 BingoBoingo: trinque: Than do as I do, and don't run it.

05:31:05 trinque: indeed.

05:31:11 gabriel_laddel: it does about 40% right now

05:31:13 gabriel_laddel: needs some love

05:31:15 trinque: gabriel_laddel: yeah that immediately pissed me off

05:31:25 trinque: expected lisp in conkeror, then... sadness

05:31:53 gabriel_laddel: scripting it with PS sucks unless it is the "base layer" of the UI

05:31:57 gabriel_laddel: which will take some work

05:31:57 BingoBoingo: What is nope.js and how does it differ from mozilla pdf.js???? Why trust any javascript runtime?

05:31:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7170 @ 0.00075661 = 5.4249 BTC [+]

05:32:12 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: nope.js is the name of the transpiler

05:32:17 punkman: gabriel_laddel: well even if you can translate all the worl'ds js to lisp, I still don't want any JS

05:32:19 trinque: BingoBoingo: he's talking about in the sort of XUL layer, if I understand firefox

05:32:26 BingoBoingo: Yet you still write it in JS???

05:32:38 BingoBoingo: trinque: And that's a problem

05:32:44 gabriel_laddel: punkman: there isn't really anyway out of that

05:32:53 gabriel_laddel: unless I'm missing something big

05:32:58 BingoBoingo: Zool is not a container, it is another devil.

05:33:07 gabriel_laddel: my plan is to OCR + script the fuck out of the web

05:33:11 gabriel_laddel: we shall see how it goes

05:33:28 gabriel_laddel: building tesseract atm

05:34:07 BingoBoingo: Fuck it, lets pass around javascript turds as FLAC files so we can infect our machines with cassette tapes

05:34:45 trinque: I'm actually on-board that hypertext shouldn't specify executable code within

05:34:55 punkman: I think youtube-dl has the right idea. https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl

05:34:57 assbot: rg3/youtube-dl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0uw5t )

05:34:57 trinque: maybe it's got some data structure in it that has various "viewers"

05:35:15 gabriel_laddel: trinque: presentation methods!?

05:35:19 trinque: gabriel_laddel: yeah that

05:35:26 trinque: CLIMweb when?

05:35:28 gabriel_laddel: wtf is this hypertext

05:35:31 gabriel_laddel: why "web"

05:35:37 trinque: gabriel_laddel: hypertext is a word.

05:35:37 gabriel_laddel: just programs with networking functionality

05:35:50 trinque: has a very useful meaning.

05:35:53 gabriel_laddel: what, every MMORPG is a "web" too?

05:35:55 trinque: no, hypertext is not that

05:35:59 gabriel_laddel: trinque: it does?

05:36:02 trinque: oh stop, there were hypertext systems on general

05:36:02 punkman: hypertext is term of art

05:36:05 trinque: *genera

05:36:24 gabriel_laddel: trinque: they didn't do *everything* correctly, but yes.

05:36:41 gabriel_laddel: maxima has it's own syntax, for example.

05:36:45 trinque: point being!

05:36:48 gabriel_laddel: but I want the AST!

05:36:49 trinque: this hypertext thing has massively worked out

05:36:53 trinque: don't be stupid and ignore that

05:36:57 trinque: because the browser is shit

05:37:16 gabriel_laddel: why not use presentations?

05:37:21 gabriel_laddel: I don't get why I need another language?

05:37:33 gabriel_laddel: here are some objects, display them. "OK"

05:37:35 trinque: don't care what you use; give me a universal reference to *THAT* concept

05:37:56 trinque: and let me point at your concepts and make reference to them on *my* thing

05:38:02 trinque: in the don't-call-it-hypertext

05:38:25 gabriel_laddel: You want Super-Meta-Click IMHO

05:38:26 gabriel_laddel: one sec

05:38:27 gabriel_laddel: finding link

05:38:49 trinque: hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was.

05:39:01 trinque: you don't just write in isolation; you write in a vast context of interrelated concepts

05:40:20 trinque: so no, I don't think "run lisp program and open socket" is enough

05:40:45 trinque: mabye we're all running the same lisp program, but you have to have a space within which (distributed CLOS??) the thing we're doing poorly on the www can be done better

05:41:27 gabriel_laddel: Sure, I send you a sexpr containing a program you can load.

05:41:38 gabriel_laddel: dunno what else you could possibly want, other than sane 3D etc.

05:42:05 trinque: how did I know I want your program?

05:42:06 gabriel_laddel: the "scaffolding" will evolve as you go

05:42:15 gabriel_laddel: WoTnet.

05:42:22 trinque: which is composed of what structure

05:42:43 trinque: meaning. today I google some nonsense and google gives me my propagandized results

05:42:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267215 transpiller should totally be a word.

05:42:52 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:35:09; gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js

05:42:56 mircea_popescu: it spills trans.

05:43:18 BingoBoingo: it spills trans. << I though that was called prison???

05:43:37 trinque: damn socialists spilling trans everywhere

05:43:49 gabriel_laddel: trinque: so someone could write and distribute a "~google search" that looks over the CLIM streams of all GUIs it knows about.

05:44:00 mircea_popescu: alternatively it could be transpieler. where you play with the tran.

05:44:01 trinque: right, that thing is necessary

05:44:01 gabriel_laddel: if you don't like it, well, you've got the sexprs right there

05:44:20 mircea_popescu: also i would like to point out that sex needs no pr.

05:44:27 trinque: wahaha

05:44:44 trinque: getting rather well known

05:44:46 BingoBoingo: hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was. << Seriously there is a specific harmless language or subset of language necessary for playing the presentation role. Something that by it's Phoosis can be presented safely

05:45:05 trinque: I see what's asked for there.

05:45:25 trinque: and on the other end, gabriel_laddel will tell you that's a (small) subset of his lispy metaverse

05:45:48 mircea_popescu: the drunk to cereal interaction is very golden.

05:45:48 trinque: gabriel_laddel: what of gentlemen like BingoBoingo that want to write and link things

05:46:04 BingoBoingo: For safety though it should not be a part of that, but merely interpreted through a progam in that

05:46:10 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I don't see how this is a problem?

05:46:11 trinque: in what space do these links exist? what are they addressing? so on so on

05:46:33 gabriel_laddel: trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development.

05:46:37 trinque: dunno that you see or perhaps don't value the problem the web did solve

05:46:46 BingoBoingo: trinque: I don't see how this is a problem? << I am a librarian, a collector. I want to collect information without collecting a bunch of executable rat turds

05:46:50 trinque: seems to me you end up with another browser

05:47:16 BingoBoingo: trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development. << NO, this is developing separate universes

05:47:20 gabriel_laddel: trinque: the whole lispm is a "browser" if you go that direction with words.

05:47:37 trinque: "you can do anything at zombocom" is not why the web blew up

05:47:42 trinque: it blew up because it was absurdly simple

05:47:44 gabriel_laddel: that browser (to me) means strictly JS+CSS+HTML

05:47:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267251 << moreover, if gpg messages were code rather than data i'd have gpg rewritten to a thing that keeps messages strictly as data. BingoBoingo exactly has it : there is no room nor need for every bit of text to be "really code". i want my nano to be UNABLE to do anything whatsoever with the text. which is why i use nano rather than emacs.

05:47:52 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:51:28; punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"

05:48:05 mircea_popescu: if i want it to be able to do things with the text, then yes i want full ast bla bla.

05:48:28 BingoBoingo: Executable things can go in the Lispy read, sign, check signatures, and execute world. Documents need to be in the don't give a fuck read the derp and laugh universe

05:48:44 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion

05:48:58 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion << FUCK YOU IMMA DRAGON

05:49:03 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case.

05:49:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case. << AND yet you Hearnia around the details

05:49:36 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I do?

05:50:22 trinque: ^ guy is just more interested in his lisp system than a particular app on it. I contend the mega-app on any computer now and in the future will be a hypertext system.

05:50:38 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: The difference between what you do now and what Mike Hearn does is 2013 and 2015. Mike Hearn knew his mission was to destroy through evangalism. You may no that, you may not but that is still your net effect.

05:50:40 trinque: because that's what language always was

05:50:41 gabriel_laddel: I fucking write "apps" for it now, for money.

05:50:45 gabriel_laddel: it isnt' a big deal

05:50:46 gabriel_laddel: just do it

05:51:30 BingoBoingo: For a while I did girls for money, was a huge hassel, not worth it, because the girls were huge. Giggolo is a dead end.

05:51:46 trinque: lol

05:52:04 BingoBoingo: Seriously are we channeling Nike shoe slogans here, Just do it?

05:52:44 BingoBoingo: AND I am the one using ambiguous metaphores???

05:52:48 trinque: a safe hypertext system could easily be tossing sepxrs over the wire with *no* code, just piles of data

05:52:57 pete_dushenski: "[Damon] Wayans defended [Bill] Cosby. Among his comments: “I don’t believe he was raping. I think he was in relationships with all of them.” “If you listen to them talk, they go: ‘Well, the first time.’ The first time? Bitch, how many times did it happen?”

05:52:57 pete_dushenski: “Some of them, really, is un-rapeable. I look at them and go, ‘No, you don’t want that.'” “If it was my daughter, then I would have killed Bill Cosby. But sitting back looking at it, I think it’s a money hustle.”

05:52:59 trinque: various presentations for various kinds of data yes, one of them a link

05:53:02 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.

05:53:08 mircea_popescu: you won't have a leakless pipe, ever.

05:53:28 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: well by that token, the same stands for nano

05:53:39 mircea_popescu: mno.

05:53:43 mircea_popescu: nano isn't a pipe.

05:53:52 mircea_popescu: and if it is fouind behaving like a pipe it gets shot in the head.

05:54:00 mircea_popescu: whereas your thing is only maybe shot in the head if found leaking.

05:54:05 mircea_popescu: very different standards these.

05:54:13 gabriel_laddel: how many LoC is nano?

05:54:16 gabriel_laddel: vs. SBCL?

05:54:22 gabriel_laddel: SBCL is 400k

05:54:27 gabriel_laddel: or thereabouts

05:54:27 mircea_popescu: ;;google how many loc is nano

05:54:28 gribble: Microservices? What about Nanoservices? - InfoQ: ; Nanotron Technologies GmbH - Transceivers: ; Máy lọc nước Nano, Nhập khẩu Nhật Bản 100% chính hãng ...:

05:54:44 mircea_popescu: heh. google is so useful seriously.

05:54:55 mircea_popescu: no wonder they stopped working on search to develop... what the fuck is it they do these days again ?

05:55:07 trinque: surveillance apparatus as far as I can tell

05:55:08 gabriel_laddel: self driving cars

05:55:11 trinque: o that

05:55:18 trinque: I count that under "ad company"

05:55:34 trinque: as in, google does self-driving cars and definitely not surveillance

05:55:42 trinque: though I guess that's getting them into the assassination gig

05:56:14 pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void

05:56:19 trinque: gabriel_laddel: if I don't know you, I may still want to listen to you for a moment, to see what you're about

05:56:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00075661 = 8.6254 BTC [+]

05:56:43 gabriel_laddel: trinque: ?

05:56:48 trinque: why should I have to run a program *of yours* at all to get certain information from you?

05:57:00 gabriel_laddel: you shouldn't.

05:57:01 trinque: I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations

05:57:07 BingoBoingo: how many LoC is nano? << a large portion is what those LOC do

05:57:13 gabriel_laddel: holy fuck, bind *read-eval* to nil

05:57:18 gabriel_laddel: then read in the string

05:57:19 gabriel_laddel: the end

05:57:45 gabriel_laddel: "Do I like this string, would I like more from the identity that produced it?"

05:57:48 gabriel_laddel: and airgap

05:57:54 gabriel_laddel: dunno what I'm missing here

05:58:00 BingoBoingo: I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.

05:58:31 BingoBoingo: dunno what I'm missing here << All of the shit you want to hinge on this

05:58:38 *: gabriel_laddel will find nano LoC stats *after* I find the quote I am looking for.

05:59:04 BingoBoingo: Right now we plainly live on C machines.

05:59:18 trinque: anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today.

05:59:39 BingoBoingo: anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today. << Gopher is beautiful

05:59:41 trinque: and that I can see is readily built on a proper lisp system

05:59:45 trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah I recall it

06:00:00 trinque: strict about the URL structure or w/e it was, isn't it?

06:00:09 trinque: has some concept of menu

06:00:12 *: trinque looks

06:00:13 BingoBoingo: Very strict

06:02:15 mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"

06:02:22 mircea_popescu: this should never be a possible question.

06:02:33 BingoBoingo: Seriously

06:02:55 mircea_popescu: and no, it's not ok to take the windows route and just execute everything.

06:03:08 BingoBoingo: I have not seen a graphical WWW browser other than Dillo that does not execute any documents.

06:03:23 mircea_popescu: links

06:03:33 mircea_popescu: and, of course, curl. that golden standard of all browsers

06:03:35 mircea_popescu: FOR THIS REASON

06:04:07 BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg

06:04:32 mircea_popescu: neither displays jpegs anyway

06:04:57 gabriel_laddel: trinque: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=comp.lang.lisp/XpvUwF2xKbk/Xz4Mww0ZwLIJ

06:04:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoVPZc )

06:05:06 gabriel_laddel: ^ quote I was looking for

06:06:38 pete_dushenski: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-upkJ-O10HnE/UDVo-nADThI/AAAAAAAAITk/PPcqRRrAY_U/w800-h800/photo.jpg << dilbert on google. apt.

06:06:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoVUMg )

06:07:35 mircea_popescu: ok this just beats all.

06:08:34 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/198EDMN

06:08:35 assbot: dpaste: 198EDMN ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS50ep )

06:08:46 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Links displays images, Lynx is the one that doesn't

06:09:06 trinque: lolol and a facebook link

06:09:10 mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.

06:09:16 mircea_popescu: saddest waste of a log reading ever i swear.

06:09:48 mircea_popescu: "Singyue star, china". you know, like "rome, wisconsin".

06:10:04 BingoBoingo: Prolly less Obesity at least

06:10:17 mircea_popescu: i'd expect.

06:10:43 BingoBoingo: Hard to get fat on plastic

06:11:17 pete_dushenski: i think the rice was paper now

06:11:36 trinque: gabriel_laddel: how do I refer to your CLOS object which represents a paper you have written? I would like to direct people to it from my CLOS object representing a blog post.

06:11:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.0007479 = 21.4647 BTC [-] {4}

06:11:52 trinque: this the web has, and it is why it blew up.

06:11:59 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, Chicoms are mixing US corn with polymer to make rice now. Cheapest option

06:12:23 gabriel_laddel: trinque: you call a program to display my paper?

06:12:31 gabriel_laddel: sorry, are you asking what the UI should look like?

06:12:34 trinque: no.

06:12:43 gabriel_laddel: or do you want a spec for how the "dispatch" occurs?

06:12:48 BingoBoingo: How does the flow look like

06:12:49 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: corn, obv. and paper too ! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-09-2015#1265384

06:12:49 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 17:43:24; fluffypony: damn the Chinese are getting desperate for profit: http://shanghaiist.com/2015/09/06/fake_paper_rice.php

06:13:17 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Ah, sorry. People make paper for cigarettes out of rice starch.

06:13:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267299 << there is incidentally a very fine use for macros : where you're playing eulora.

06:13:43 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:05:13; trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit

06:13:52 gabriel_laddel: ...

06:14:08 mircea_popescu: which is directly that, hair on someone else's shit (aka game server)

06:14:19 mircea_popescu: except deliberately so.

06:14:33 gabriel_laddel: trinque: Right now I can press C-t m, pull up a "map" of all "research nodes" and "lessons" and right click to get a menu from which I can run the associated program.

06:14:36 trinque: yep, that's sort of how I see them; this interface is butts, I would like to pretend it is not

06:14:43 mircea_popescu: (ie, that's the point of a game in the general sense : to not let you solve problems the obvious way. (which in this context would just be skill++ or something equivalent))

06:14:47 trinque: gabriel_laddel: you will not have the whole internet on one machine!

06:14:54 trinque: what is the addressing mechanism for a world of clos objects?

06:15:08 gabriel_laddel: trinque: PGP identity with a list of programs to run.

06:15:17 trinque: I want to make reference to your information, not host it

06:15:19 trinque: no, not enough

06:15:59 gabriel_laddel: I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key"

06:16:06 gabriel_laddel: or "here are the sources"

06:16:23 mircea_popescu: how about http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-importance-of-backups-from-the-other-side/#selection-41.0-41.15

06:16:24 assbot: The importance of backups, from the other side. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWpGf )

06:16:27 mircea_popescu: that's reference enough

06:16:46 trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed! I don't think gabriel_laddel sees what hypertext is

06:17:11 BingoBoingo: I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key" << Publication. Paper and film only have the problem that they are slow and take too much volume for their information density. Why should machines not offer a path at least as safe.

06:17:13 mircea_popescu: tbh this extended hypertext thing i got on fraudsters kicks all imaginable butt

06:17:27 mircea_popescu: 50 times a day i go for it on random sites and they're too web 0.5 for it

06:17:42 trinque: yep, and I wanna poke someone's data set with something that specific

06:18:29 trinque: gabriel_laddel has a CLOS object which represents his number of slithey toves

06:18:35 trinque: and I want to make reference to that, not copy it

06:19:03 gabriel_laddel: trinque: you can only make a reference with 'respect to me'

06:19:10 gabriel_laddel: using whatever criteria you'd like

06:19:17 gabriel_laddel: nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577

06:19:19 trinque: no that sucks

06:19:26 trinque: www wins still.

06:19:37 gabriel_laddel: trinque: this is how URLs work already.

06:19:52 trinque: ah well elaborate then

06:19:55 FUIAD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Reddragon.jpg/464px-Reddragon.jpg

06:19:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWz0n )

06:19:56 trinque: define "with respect to me"

06:20:04 trinque: gabriel_laddel: so you have your own addressing scheme

06:20:10 FUIAD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/William_Blake_003.jpg/487px-William_Blake_003.jpg

06:20:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWwS9 )

06:20:29 trinque: www also worked because HTTP

06:20:39 trinque: not your particular way of addressing things per server

06:20:43 AndTheBeastFromT: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Blakebeast1bg.jpg/536px-Blakebeast1bg.jpg

06:20:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWA4j )

06:22:48 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them. Your "references" can be any arbitary computation, buut probably some standards will evolve (e.g., we don't check sexprs who pass some test of being a plist of the structure (:name ... :version ...)).

06:22:56 gabriel_laddel: where :name names the program, :version, the version

06:23:29 gabriel_laddel: it will evolve out of whatever the "networking" substrate ends up being and tbh, I don't see what the big deal is?

06:23:41 gabriel_laddel: none of this is hard to code - you hack around until something "clicks"

06:23:58 BingoBoingo: trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them... << It is essential for WoT to exist that I can safely point at the enemy's words and bury them in sulfur

06:24:10 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: yep.

06:24:19 gabriel_laddel: "I don't want to see people who cite XYZ"

06:24:24 gabriel_laddel: because morons.

06:24:41 BingoBoingo: But that means their publication MUST BE safe, crippled, non-executable characters

06:25:06 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: bind real eval to nil

06:25:14 BingoBoingo: "I don't want to see people who cite XYZ" << No who cites XYZ is how you make rope to hang

06:25:36 gabriel_laddel: whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against

06:25:39 gabriel_laddel: you can hang whoever

06:26:09 mircea_popescu: nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.

06:26:26 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: fuck you and your intuition about things

06:26:29 gabriel_laddel: ;)

06:26:35 mircea_popescu: lol

06:26:38 trinque: this whole email thing is a turd

06:26:45 trinque: spamassassin raping my VPS

06:26:45 mircea_popescu: it is a shade better than just intuition :)

06:27:00 BingoBoingo: whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against << FYIAD, I don't need structure: I eat, hang, and burn

06:27:25 gabriel_laddel: ;; ud FYIAD

06:27:26 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FYIAD | Aug 26, 2007 ... Top Definition. FYIAD. Fuck You, I'm A Dragon Originated in some lame back-and -forth furry argument, but when you think about it, it's a good ...

06:27:26 punkman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu

06:27:27 assbot: Project Xanadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoWQAi )

06:27:33 BingoBoingo: spamassassin raping my VPS << I don't find email important enough to not outsource

06:27:45 gabriel_laddel: punkman: yeah, several people have dropped that link on me

06:28:23 punkman: required reading for anyone dabbling in hypertext

06:30:32 BingoBoingo: For the record this is the original and only meaningful spec for hypertext, predates LISP by two decades https://archive.is/ezrwO

06:30:34 assbot: As We May Think - Vannevar Bush - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS7kSD )

06:31:57 punkman: gabriel_laddel: yeah, don't be ted nelson :P

06:33:07 ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: are you running Masamune in production?

06:33:10 ben_vulpes: "production"?

06:33:42 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: something like that

06:33:57 BingoBoingo: How can one even pretend to have a hypertext spec or its substitute without citing Vannevar Bush

06:34:01 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I did the project, they thought it had "too many options" so I'm cutting some out

06:34:22 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I should actually be cutting out options right now, but I'm instead drinking and browsing the net

06:34:23 ben_vulpes: how's masamune progressing?

06:34:27 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: slowly

06:34:37 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: you can use it iff you follow the guide

06:35:19 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.

06:35:46 ben_vulpes: ah nifty.

06:36:00 ben_vulpes: what does 'master lisp proc' mean in this context? the lisp image you run continuously?

06:36:04 gabriel_laddel: yeah

06:36:07 gabriel_laddel: so I have CLIM etc

06:36:16 gabriel_laddel: for those of you who have not seen femlisp, MGL-MAT and MJR_CALC, the full nifty of this might not be readily apparent.

06:36:29 gabriel_laddel: all loaded in the same proc, all with access to BLAS, CUDA etc.

06:38:38 mircea_popescu: none of this is hard to code - you hack around until something "clicks" << this ftr is philosophically wrong. in that it reduces to the exact opposite of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-07-2015#1217312

06:38:38 assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:10; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else

06:38:43 trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm about ready to pull the plug on this server and give all smtp over to the enemy

06:38:51 mircea_popescu: esp the "no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else." part.

06:39:28 ben_vulpes: trinque: what's happening to your smtp holes?

06:39:29 BingoBoingo: trinque: Fastmail.fm isn't the shittiest. Can't really endorse any email provider, but they are the least condemned as far as I know.

06:40:10 trinque: ben_vulpes: cron job doing sa-learn on incoming spam is choking the box; while moving I have IRC up there instead of at home, proving... laggy

06:40:28 ben_vulpes: wait, what happened to tls cutting all of your spam to nil?

06:40:39 trinque: the turdatron

06:40:41 mircea_popescu: "femlisp" ? women in tech ?~!

06:40:48 ben_vulpes: ahyu

06:40:53 BingoBoingo: "Professionally our methods of transmitting and reviewing the results of research are generations old and by now are totally inadequate for their purpose. If the aggregate time spent in writing scholarly works and in reading them could be evaluated, the ratio between these amounts of time might well be startling. Those who conscientiously attempt to keep abreast of current thought, even in restricted fields, by close and continuou

06:40:53 BingoBoingo: s reading might well shy away from an examination calculated to show how much of the previous month's efforts could be produced on call. Mendel's concept of the laws of genetics was lost to the world for a generation because his publication did not reach the few who were capable of grasping and extending it; and this sort of catastrophe is undoubtedly being repeated all about us, as truly significant attainments become lost in the

06:40:54 BingoBoingo: mass of the inconsequential." << Critical application of actual hypertext

06:41:07 trinque: I give up; google owns mail

06:41:27 BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google

06:41:30 ben_vulpes: herr mircea_popescu has as well, you're in good company

06:41:47 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.

06:41:54 trinque: so I run my own mailserver, and I get what

06:41:57 mircea_popescu: my problem is that middlemen are broken

06:42:12 ben_vulpes: what's your spamsolution, mircea_popescu?

06:42:19 trinque: I get a terrible hobby.

06:42:27 ben_vulpes: heh.

06:42:51 BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to have fashioned the thousands of

06:42:52 BingoBoingo: parts for a single car, and that car would have broken down on the first trip to Giza."

06:43:01 mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.

06:43:02 mircea_popescu: silentily.

06:43:18 mircea_popescu: works splendidly, too.

06:43:43 ben_vulpes: hm

06:44:38 BingoBoingo: brb scouting pillage and jools

06:44:40 mircea_popescu: occasionally i fish through the mire, as a curiosity thing. but it's quite different

06:45:24 mircea_popescu: ie, the "bayesian" twerps have it all wrong. it's dumbass to try and protect an inbox with regexp, and especially their halfbaked regexp based ai

06:45:37 mircea_popescu: however, it's fun to fish in a swamp with regexp. when you feel so inclined.

06:47:56 ben_vulpes: youtube-dl?

06:48:00 ben_vulpes: because vlc is too hard?

06:48:41 BingoBoingo: youtube-dl? << Or save-as

06:48:52 punkman: ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though?

06:49:03 punkman: save-as doesn't work

06:49:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267314 << for the record, ascribing purpose to phenomena is basically animism 2.0, and just as medieval as the other thing. for all you know gauss was not "a bit of a coward", and your p[rojection into the future whebn discussing einstein more indicative of an anachronistic mind than some sort of valuable intuition. for all you know gauss just didn't think the idiots arou

06:49:05 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:17:33; gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminati

06:49:05 mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.

06:49:19 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though? << VLC, Parole, pretty much eveything works

06:49:27 BingoBoingo: except x.265

06:49:40 mircea_popescu: "the prince of mathematicians" in-fucking-deed.

06:49:48 BingoBoingo: save-as doesn't work << If it doesn't the problem is higher up your toolchain

06:51:36 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: http://www.femlisp.org/

06:51:37 assbot: FEMLISP Homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS9WA3 )

06:51:53 mircea_popescu: i r disappoint.

06:51:55 punkman: BingoBoingo: ok, how do I save-as on vimeo?

06:52:30 mircea_popescu: "this femlisp privileges useful work and meaningful abstractions over other verbiage that is a lot more important to us"

06:52:30 mircea_popescu: ~luce irigaray.

06:53:22 mircea_popescu: punkman generally you need a decent video driver, something that does the equivalent of "print to file"

06:54:26 mircea_popescu: if you get it to run under x it's a lot easier.

06:54:28 punkman: I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser

06:55:01 mircea_popescu: oh.

06:55:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63100 @ 0.00075033 = 47.3458 BTC [+] {3}

06:55:21 mircea_popescu: the only way such a thing will be published will be under a tmsr license. for obvious reasons.

06:55:24 punkman: the save-as button I have, does work in many occasions. but mostly doesn't

06:55:33 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: as for that quote, agreed - I should have quoted 3 paragraphs up.

06:56:57 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: and wrt "hacking around until something clicks", this is the only way I know how to work on UIs and other 'finicky' programs? You certainly don't distribute this to friends who don't program.

06:57:21 gabriel_laddel: so, for example, the notion of references on a CLIMweb running on a WoTnet

06:57:24 mircea_popescu: i still manage to distribute fraudsters to people who don't program

06:57:41 mircea_popescu: note that im not saying this is a good idea. i'm entirely unconvinced at the moment. but still, fwiw, iwii.

06:58:06 gabriel_laddel: sure, but you rewrite sentences several times before you distribute.

06:58:11 mircea_popescu: that, i do not.

06:58:19 gabriel_laddel: oh right, I knew that

06:58:36 mircea_popescu: i would estimate less than 1% of fraudsters words were ever rewritten. it's pretty much first pass.

06:59:25 thestringpuller: i read an article that F. Scott Fitzgerald used to revise for years after his first draft...

06:59:53 mircea_popescu: flaubert is famous for having declaredly spent weeks trying to decide on a temperature value in cote de chez swann

06:59:58 mircea_popescu: iirc he settled oin 29 in the end

07:00:39 ben_vulpes: > femlisp

07:00:43 ben_vulpes: whoa

07:01:56 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: http://www.mitchr.me/SS/mjrcalc/

07:01:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0DvDQ )

07:02:39 ben_vulpes: no stop i have to go do things to a girl

07:02:40 *: mircea_popescu is kind-of nonplussed nobody called him on the misattribution of proust's work. but anyway, twas "Bouvard et P?cuchet", and the dilemma was 30 or 34, and he settled on 30. you people need to read more literature.

07:03:02 gabriel_laddel: lol

07:03:30 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: ftr, MJR_CALC compiles without any work on my part aside from

07:03:37 gabriel_laddel: (let* ((mjrcalc-path (qlpp "/lispy/")))

07:03:37 gabriel_laddel: (load (merge-pathnames mjrcalc-path "lib-meta.lisp"))

07:03:37 gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_load-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")"))

07:03:37 gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_use-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")")))

07:03:39 *: pete_dushenski goes to read more literature. gnite !

07:04:19 gabriel_laddel: Completing the above thought (CLIMweb) : there are two obvious categories of references, those that contain (backup) the reference and those that do not. Those that do not should be of one of two types - an identifier coupled with an identity, which you can use to lookup in the WoT you can "see" and "speculative" references, e.g., some arbitary computation.

07:05:07 gabriel_laddel: Now, I don't *know* exactly what particular sexpr will 'click' for my program, so I'll write a few versions, find something I like and then distribute it.

07:09:54 BingoBoingo: I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser << Of all things Chromium on OpenBSd has this along with most other browsers

07:13:42 BingoBoingo: (let* ((mjrcalc-path (qlpp "/lispy/")))... << How exactly to we trust this far before hardware?

07:17:42 BingoBoingo: Pretending to thing that do not yet exist is the definition of "terminal psychosis"

07:19:33 punkman: !up Vexual

07:19:43 Vexual: meta tiem

07:20:50 Vexual: notrlly

07:25:09 Vexual: !s trippy

07:25:09 assbot: 18 results for 'trippy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trippy

07:36:24 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Seriously read the Vannevar Bush paper. You are solving too many problems with too few tools. Classic circular saw/Hammer problem.

07:36:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:40:57 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUge-brzn94

07:47:17 BingoBoingo: "Let us project this trend ahead to a logical, if not inevitable, outcome. The camera hound of the future wears on his forehead a lump a little larger than a walnut. It takes pictures 3 millimeters square, later to be projected or enlarged, which after all involves only a factor of 10 beyond present practice. The lens is of universal focus, down to any distance accommodated by the unaided eye, simply because it is of short focal l

07:47:17 BingoBoingo: ength. There is a built-in photocell on the walnut such as we now have on at least one camera, which automatically adjusts exposure for a wide range of illumination. There is film in the walnut for a hundred exposures, and the spring for operating its shutter and shifting its film is wound once for all when the film clip is inserted. It produces its result in full color. It may well be stereoscopic, and record with two spaced glas

07:47:20 BingoBoingo: s eyes, for striking improvements in stereoscopic technique are just around the corner." << This was Vannevar's design

07:49:49 BingoBoingo: Laser printers etc. "Another process now in use is also slow, and more or less clumsy. For fifty years impregnated papers have been used which turn dark at every point where an electrical contact touches them, by reason of the chemical change thus produced in an iodine compound included in the paper. They have been used to make records, for a pointer moving across them can leave a trail behind. If the electrical potential on the p

07:49:49 BingoBoingo: ointer is varied as it moves, the line becomes light or dark in accordance with the potential." << Are we getting spooked yet?

07:58:49 BingoBoingo: OLEDs how do they work? "Use chemically treated film in place of the glowing screen, allow the apparatus to transmit one picture only rather than a succession, and a rapid camera for dry photography results."

08:06:14 BingoBoingo: Also actual computers, a rarity: "With machines for advanced analysis no such situation existed; for there was and is no extensive market; the users of advanced methods of manipulating data are a very small part of the population. There are, however, machines for solving differential equations?and functional and integral equations, for that matter. There are many special machines, such as the harmonic synthesizer which predicts

08:06:14 BingoBoingo: the tides. There will be many more, appearing certainly first in the hands of the scientist and in small numbers."

08:14:04 BingoBoingo: ;;google memex

08:14:04 gribble: Memex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Memex – DARPA's search engine for the Dark Web | Naked Security: ; Memex In Action: Watch DARPA Artificial Intelligence Search For ...:

08:14:14 *: BingoBoingo done spamming, brb sleep

08:31:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00074639 = 11.6064 BTC [-] {3}

08:40:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << i must confess i am very much enamoured with the idea of a b-a web browser.

08:40:07 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.

08:40:53 mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.

08:42:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267362 << word. so very much word!

08:42:22 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:30:29; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind

08:44:00 Naphex: mircea_popescu: oh man browsers still can't render the same thing properly :o

08:44:31 mircea_popescu: they never will. the browser process as it exists is almost an exact mirror of the us "democracy" electroal process.

08:44:43 mircea_popescu: it will converge to sense. eventually. in the year 72015.

08:45:14 mircea_popescu: (in the year 72015 in the sense that it can be mathematially proven it won't happen before. but who knows, maybe after. patience little wanobi!)

08:45:25 Naphex: :D

08:47:32 Naphex: chrome runs it okay, but its filled with goog data plugs; got to spend 40mins just to do a "sane" config. Firefox somehow got stuck in 2010. And IE just gets stuck eats all memory and crashes with OOM

08:48:25 mircea_popescu: hm.

08:48:47 Naphex: the typical stuff when doing "webapps"

08:48:55 mircea_popescu: maybe this is retarded, but, wouldn't you be better off adding a slight delay, converting to something like gifv on the fly and relying on html5 ?

08:51:06 Naphex: getting everything rendered server-side would probably help

08:51:09 Naphex: but not worth it at all

08:51:20 Naphex: use plain html5, render stuff on the fly

08:51:35 *: mircea_popescu is clueless re web video etc.

08:52:44 Naphex: it's pretty meh, video is solved with flash and rtmp. the other interface "eye-candy" and functionality is what bogs most of it down

08:53:04 Naphex: web video as in the new mp4 and webrtc is pretty much useless for low-latency video streaming

08:53:20 punkman: flash doesn't belong in sane browser though

08:53:32 Naphex: punkman: it doesn't but it's a bussiness pick

08:54:11 Naphex: RTMP has a lot of hardware support[switchers, video compositing, streaming tools, relays;etc] and most video producers just use that

08:55:34 Naphex: now adobe has some sort of patent on RTMP

08:56:09 Naphex: so most browsers implement webrtc; you have to rely on 3rd party video players(like vlc) or flash to decode and render the content

08:56:54 Naphex: you could also try HLS from apple for some decent compatibilty and just delivering mp4 parts by HTTP

08:57:05 Naphex: but it's a straight up 2s->5s delay for everything

08:59:12 Naphex: which users absolutely hate in the context of live video chat

08:59:37 Naphex: a shitfuckstack

09:01:13 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sagq3V5K_CA

09:01:14 assbot: Reggie Watts - Fuck Shit Stack - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UGlbR5 )

09:01:20 Naphex: punkman: exactly :P

10:28:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18298 @ 0.0007484 = 13.6942 BTC [+]

10:39:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23612 @ 0.00075251 = 17.7683 BTC [+]

10:46:54 shinohai: ;;ticker

10:46:55 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 239.06, Best ask: 239.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 239.06, 24 hour volume: 14672.0436584, 24 hour low: 239.23, 24 hour high: 246.52, 24 hour vwap: None

10:49:14 shinohai: http://thenextweb.com/us/2015/09/09/john-mcafee-might-run-for-president/ <<< Wait until he gets pilled up on Xanax again and starts firing missiles at Belize.

10:49:15 assbot: John McAfee might run for president ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOcS4a )

11:21:45 Naphex: shinohai: belize is so screwed :))

11:26:11 mircea_popescu: we should xt mcafee

11:26:17 mircea_popescu: more cheaper missiles.

11:29:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.0007484 = 10.5524 BTC [-]

11:34:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period.

11:34:48 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.

11:37:57 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267210 << strictly when not hungry

11:37:57 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:11; pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.

11:38:54 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267099 < dunno if magical, but still runs.

11:38:54 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 02:31:21; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of this, does kakobrekla's magical car still run ?

11:39:00 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: neato

11:39:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267236 << the path to fits-in-head STRICTLY depends on every particular thing on the machine being implemented ONCE. this includes lexer, parser, related items.

11:39:38 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:45:27; punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?

11:41:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'

11:41:49 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:57:07; gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs

11:42:41 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267296 << this.

11:42:41 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:04:15; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary

11:43:10 asciilifeform: most of the 'small languages' on a unix box are 'glue'. you don't need glue on a sane computer.

11:43:38 asciilifeform: just as properly made furniture does not contain glue.

11:46:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267350 << mega-l0l! can't wait for arbitrarily more of this!

11:46:49 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:27:16; pete_dushenski: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/08/a-white-guy-named-michael-couldnt-get-his-poem-published-then-he-became-yi-fen-chou/ << "Hudson’s critics said the literary bait-and-switch was fraudulent, racist and fundamentally different from Charlotte Bronte publishing “Jane Eyre” under the name Currer Bell."

11:47:01 shinohai: @ asciilifeform is your node back up and running? One I was connected to is down :/

11:47:10 asciilifeform: shinohai: zoolag is running

11:47:21 shinohai: ip ?

11:47:28 asciilifeform: same as before

11:47:30 asciilifeform: !s zoolag

11:47:30 assbot: 47 results for 'zoolag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zoolag

11:47:55 shinohai: thx

11:49:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << what is 'sane browser' ? if it is simply 'loads text', then mircea_popescu has it, run 'curl' ! but noooooo, you wanna read new york birdcage liner, aha ? then you're stuck with the shit soup, sorry.

11:49:23 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.

11:49:30 shinohai: So close to full sync

11:50:01 kakobrekla: btw iirc today is tx spam day ?

11:50:02 asciilifeform: a good bit of the 'modern' www has dynamically loaded text, even, just as a pill against folks using lynx etc

11:50:16 kakobrekla: or tomorrow

11:50:35 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if it's today, the spamatron must be clogged

11:50:41 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'cause i'm not seeing it.

11:50:49 kakobrekla: let see

11:54:03 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267483 << mircea_popescu: actually this is an order of magnitude tighter guarantee than ANYTHING pertaining to 'nano' or other c crapolade presently in use on your machine.

11:54:03 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:02; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.

11:55:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267484 << this is an uncommonly poor analogy, considering that even the humble world of physical pipes is full of pipes which do not leak. trivially, e.g., a rifle barrel

11:55:56 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:08; mircea_popescu: you won't have a leakless pipe, ever.

11:56:36 asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.

11:58:02 asciilifeform: but engineering is fundamentally about ~known~ constraints. and this can be achieved in, e.g., cpu design, and the whole motherfucking system, there is no magic here. microshit's greatest crime is teaching three generations of people that it ~is~ somehow magic, and unachievable. this is a crock of shit.

11:58:56 asciilifeform: even ~actual~ cosmic rays can be dealt with. we know how.

12:00:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267505 << like a dung beetle, google does not devour anything valuable to you and i. the only possible exception might be the usenet archive

12:00:13 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:56:14; pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void

12:00:37 asciilifeform: but in the case of the latter ('dejanews') there never WAS any competition

12:00:49 asciilifeform: they purchased and rebranded THE monopoly.

12:02:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48836 @ 0.00074457 = 36.3618 BTC [-] {6}

12:02:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267519 << the great inventor wheatstone wanted to build a telephone grid! but, of course, using vibrating piano wire. how else.

12:02:32 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:58:00; BingoBoingo: I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.

12:03:00 asciilifeform: iirc he was the first man to conceive the words 'telephone' and 'microphone'

12:03:19 asciilifeform: (and a thousand other now-ubiquitous concepts)

12:04:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267551 << for what, exactly ? and did the asteroid hit, or what, is there a shortage of cn speakers now?

12:04:44 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:09:10; mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.

12:04:55 shinohai: Zoolag: trying connection 195.211.154.159:8333 lastseen=-372722.3hrs lasttry=-400500.1hrs

12:04:57 shinohai: connect() failed after select(): Connection refused

12:05:27 asciilifeform: shinohai: that ain't zoolag

12:06:05 shinohai: My bad.

12:07:07 shinohai: I changed the ip in my alias, dunno why it is still connecting there

12:07:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267570 << this kind of 'macro' has precisely as much to do with lisp macros as microshit excel macros do. which is to say, NOTHING AT ALL. they are as closely related as cat is to chair - both have four legs, that's it

12:07:32 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:13:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267299 << there is incidentally a very fine use for macros : where you're playing eulora.

12:08:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267625 << WTF why not counting libc !!!!

12:08:46 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:26:09; mircea_popescu: nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.

12:08:50 asciilifeform: count libc !!!

12:10:10 asciilifeform: btw, 'nano' is titanically bloated - see, http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.2/faq.html#3.6

12:10:12 assbot: The GNU nano editor FAQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Npr2LL )

12:11:01 asciilifeform: and ftr i fucking HATE nano. it SHITS SPURIOUS LINEFEEDS into pasted text !!

12:11:28 asciilifeform: if i want a line feed, i will PRESS THE FUCKING HUGE KEY ON MY KBD WITH THE ARROW ON IT

12:12:14 asciilifeform: http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.2/BUGS << list of selected cockroaches removed from the kitchen.

12:12:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NprkCl )

12:12:27 asciilifeform: which must be oh-so-clean for their removal, aha.

12:13:34 asciilifeform: items like 'nano' is precisely how the unix crud remained dominant among thinking people for as long as it did. it has a clean coat on the outside, and presents the illusion of hygiene, for so long as you do not care to look inside. in EXACTLY the same way as a coffin hides the decay of a corpse.

12:14:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00074276 = 4.9765 BTC [-]

12:14:46 asciilifeform: in case anyone forgot, here's gnu diff: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1246256

12:14:46 assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 23:00:38; ascii_field: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/diffutils.git/tree/src/dir.c

12:14:52 asciilifeform: try and sit down and read that.

12:14:54 asciilifeform: without barfing.

12:15:04 asciilifeform: and it doesn't even have user-interaction, like text editor !

12:16:47 asciilifeform: 'nano' is NOT 'clean'.

12:17:59 asciilifeform: which is why there is not the option of living on a farm in the countryside. you ARE in a city, and the choice is between mexico city and tokyo. i'll take tokyo^H^H^H^Hemacs tyvm.

12:18:35 asciilifeform: (but if you ~really~ like the farm, try 'ed'...)

12:20:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267652 << do you ever, when driving car, think 'i need to harness more horses to this' ?

12:20:22 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:35:19; gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.

12:20:59 asciilifeform: if your project demands human compilers, your project is retarded.

12:21:04 asciilifeform: no exceptions.

12:21:26 asciilifeform: programming a computer is not building pyramid, there is no legitimate role for brute muscle.

12:22:08 asciilifeform: making use of brutes, in whatever capacity, is how we ended up buried in the pile of shit in which we sit.

12:24:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267674 << the way this works is that google silently drops messages not coming from 1) itself 2) 'blessed' usg-megacorp entities

12:24:42 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:27; BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google

12:24:48 asciilifeform: see also the jwz thread.

12:25:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267676 << knuth also has no problem with spam. and for approximately the same reason.

12:25:37 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:47; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.

12:26:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267684 >>>>>>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266708

12:26:44 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:43:01; mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.

12:26:44 assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 22:01:26; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2015#1266458 << the principal way through which the usg world of chimps succeeds is by getting the intelligent people to withdraw rather than kill them.\

12:26:49 asciilifeform: this is not a win.

12:27:18 shinohai: Ironically I have zero problem with Spam on my email provider. fraudsters hates it though.

12:28:03 asciilifeform: shinohai: i run a mailserver, of approximately the same kind as mircea_popescu, but when i need to communicate with 'civilians' i end up forced to use gmail.

12:28:10 asciilifeform: or NOTHING GETS THROUGH

12:28:51 kakobrekla: yea, the sadness.

12:29:54 asciilifeform: everyone uses 'half-baked, bug-ridden implementation' of wot. even idiots. the idiot version of wot for email is, roughly, 'reject all messages not coming from u.s. fortune-500 corp domains.'

12:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10914 @ 0.00074276 = 8.1065 BTC [-]

12:31:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267682 >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2014#934786

12:31:02 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:42:51; BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to hav

12:31:02 assbot: Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.

12:32:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267699 << this is an excellent point, and the standard narrative of 'progress, science' is very much reminiscent of the old claptrap re: 'building communism together!!11!!!11'

12:32:59 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:49:05; mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.

12:33:49 asciilifeform: see also canonical thread, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#548272

12:33:49 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 23:12:13; asciilifeform: people who regularly have ideas usually have fat notebooks full of strange

12:33:56 asciilifeform: re: gauss & co.

12:35:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'

12:35:42 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 08:40:07; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267355 << i must confess i am very much enamoured with the idea of a b-a web browser.

12:36:06 asciilifeform: let's work it out

12:36:22 asciilifeform: a) don't need graphics? use lynx. or curl, even. EXISTS.

12:36:35 asciilifeform: b) want graphics. WE DON'T HAVE A SANE GRAPHICS STACK

12:37:00 asciilifeform: ergo there is nothing to do re: browsers at this time.

12:38:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267769 << in what way is this hypothetical item distinct from 'lynx' ?

12:38:29 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 08:40:53; mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.

12:38:37 asciilifeform: lynx is right there. go, use.

12:39:19 asciilifeform: there is also the other side of the problem, which is that WWW ITSELF is fundamentally retarded.

12:39:38 asciilifeform: and this seeps into browsers, and not - as commonly supposed - only the reverse.

12:40:04 asciilifeform: see also, http://xml.coverpages.org/greenspu.html

12:40:04 assbot: We Have Chosen Shame and Will Get War ... ( http://bit.ly/1UGQLOP )

12:40:51 asciilifeform: and i fucking hate the word 'secure'

12:41:29 asciilifeform: eliminate buffer overflows, use-after-free, type mismatch, by SHOOTING MOTHERFUCKING C MACHINE IN THE HEAD and the whole concept sorta goes away

12:42:16 asciilifeform: the whole mentality of 'secure' is EXACTLY the miasma theory of disease transmission

12:42:39 asciilifeform: exactly it.

12:42:51 asciilifeform: vaguely factual, yes, but fundamentally and disastrously misattributes causation

12:46:12 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267531 << 'would you like to eat this cake or inject it'

12:46:12 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:02:15; mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"

12:47:24 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 please consider updating therealbitcoin www to include the actually usable version thereof ?

12:47:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:47:25 punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period. << eh, geddoutofhere.

12:47:25 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.

12:47:52 asciilifeform: punkman: text compresses well.

12:49:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267539 << again with the miasma theory. ~yes~ the swamp sucks to live in. yes, you get malaria and die. but it is not because of the swamp gas.

12:49:24 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:04:07; BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg

12:50:07 asciilifeform: hygiene does not consist merely in the ritualistic and unthinking avoidance of things that stink. though it begins there.

12:50:59 asciilifeform: but if you want to have, e.g., an operating room, it is important that it does not ~end~ there.

12:51:14 asciilifeform: need grasp of the ACTUAL mechanism of contagion.

12:51:51 asciilifeform: voodoo with a minus sign in front of it is STILL VOODOO.

13:00:52 punkman: what is 'sane browser' ? << must render HTML+CSS, with pictures. I don't need webfonts/flash/silverlight/java/webgl. A scripting language that doesn't suck would be nice, so I can perhaps write some userscripts for certain websites. Small amounts of signed javascript might be okay.

13:02:39 asciilifeform: punkman: must render HTML+CSS, with pictures << if you think this results in a proggy that views 'modern www' usably, go and try, e.g., 'dillo' or 'arachne' - the result is disappointing.

13:02:54 asciilifeform: because www as we have it is ~intrinsically~ retarded.

13:03:18 punkman: asciilifeform: I run noscript, a lot of it works.

13:03:31 asciilifeform: if you try to implement 'sane subset' (and which would that be?) you end up able to view sites that work fine in lynx anyway - and not much else

13:04:22 asciilifeform: even something as mundane as 'show pictures' is VASTLY nontrivial from the sanity perspective

13:04:28 asciilifeform: e.g., should it display jpegs ?

13:04:34 asciilifeform: and what, we use libjpeg ? which one ?

13:04:53 asciilifeform: the spittoon ~is~ in one strand.

13:05:10 asciilifeform: can't 'i'll just take one sip'

13:15:33 davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sure, send me the details

13:15:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:16:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00075143 = 8.3409 BTC [+]

13:22:41 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267191 << i see no such restriction in therealbitcoin...

13:22:41 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:13:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet pa

13:24:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267190 << not using classical gpg, no.

13:24:44 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:11:58; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?

13:25:31 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266842 <-- thanks -- interesting to idiots like me who have trouble opening my eyes, in naming "the rise of the victim". other bits were cursory at best.

13:25:31 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:46:13; pete_dushenski: http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ << A) A Culture of Honor in part 6 aptly describes the wot

13:25:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267171 << they are cheap because they were, almost from the day they came out, forbidden to u.s. schoolchildren on account of the qwerty keyboard

13:25:51 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Damn it, you got me looking at TI-92's nao

13:26:22 asciilifeform: (89 is essentially the same machine but sans keyboard)

13:26:51 *: asciilifeform had, at various times, 85, 86, 89, grey-89

13:27:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you like mc68k cpu, you will enjoy 89/92 series.

13:27:55 asciilifeform: programmable in asm, yes.

13:28:05 asciilifeform: (get a cheap chinese cable)

13:28:52 funkenstein_: "All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four ?control dramas?: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me?s make us feel guilty and responsible for them."

13:29:14 asciilifeform: l0lwut

13:29:24 funkenstein_: -- celestine prophecy

13:30:03 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267220 << censored

13:30:03 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:37:41; pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzIXy-oFlU << if anything is microaggression, this is it. unambiguously directed yet so far from lethal it's laughable.

13:30:18 asciilifeform: anyone got a mirror ?

13:30:49 asciilifeform: 'youtube' is more or less a censor's wet dream. just about NOBODY ever mirrors these.

13:31:14 asciilifeform: only thing that ever gets mirrored is the beheadings, and even those not every time.

13:32:46 funkenstein_: ^

13:33:50 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267185 <-- I'm told the phrase is antiquated and mostly used in jest today. Perhaps interesting that the translation of "revolution" is more akin to "molting" than "spinning".

13:33:50 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:55:51; mircea_popescu: ;;google 镇压反革命

13:35:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267180 >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-02-2015#1024948

13:35:00 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:51:24; mircea_popescu: mats that's nice to have. i always puzzled over the incredibly poor security of mobile as a design decision

13:35:00 assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.

13:39:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6009 @ 0.00074734 = 4.4908 BTC [-]

13:43:04 shinohai: http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/lets-talk-about-imessage-again.html

13:43:05 assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: Let's talk about iMessage (again) ... ( http://bit.ly/1K9aipB )

13:43:29 punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much

13:45:07 punkman: asciilifeform: anyone got a mirror ? << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25a5RRh6nXs

13:46:22 asciilifeform: ty punkman

13:47:32 kakobrekla: lolvid

13:47:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267990 >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1266953

13:47:36 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:43:29; punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much

13:47:36 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:34:19; mircea_popescu: there is no enemy but the enemy.

13:47:36 kakobrekla: retarded

13:50:56 kakobrekla: it almost reminds me of monthy python, the vid.

13:52:51 asciilifeform: in usa, if you trip a thief or murderer who is running from police, he can sue and win

13:53:37 asciilifeform: (not only this, but the famous 'circular saw' case, recall)

13:54:59 kakobrekla: if a burglar breaks in my home, he can stay until years later judge decides he really shouldn't.

13:55:28 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: in britain likewise. (famous gypsy case)

13:55:40 asciilifeform: but there, he can also evict you immediately

13:56:25 punkman: kakobrekla: are there lots of squatters in your parts?

13:57:31 kakobrekla: wouldnt say lots but i know of one such case happening at this very moment. only its even worse than described.

13:57:48 asciilifeform: what does 'worse' look like ?!

13:58:18 asciilifeform: burglar anally expands you daily, until years later possibly judge adjudicates that he shouldn't ?

13:59:15 funkenstein_: the problem appears to be that you asked the judge

13:59:55 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: in urban setting it is difficult to keep a sty of pigs to feed corpse to

14:01:09 kakobrekla: the thing is, the exploiter a supposed victim of the 1990 yugo breaking up and in has been given 'priority processing' & 'priority lawyer support' from state for free. Exploitee is a poor old woman with nothing.

14:01:39 asciilifeform: victim ?!

14:02:00 kakobrekla: yes, they call them selfs 'the deleted'

14:02:21 kakobrekla: a bunch of nogoodfornothings exploiting state.

14:02:35 asciilifeform: i mean, how does this work? they were in comparty and now have nothing to do ?

14:02:52 asciilifeform: in what consisted the victimization ?

14:03:39 kakobrekla: the story is they did not get their papers straitened out at the time slovenia parted yugo

14:03:53 kakobrekla: and they were 'deleted' for many years.

14:04:02 asciilifeform: ahahahahahahaha

14:04:16 kakobrekla: but its mostly croats living here

14:04:16 *: asciilifeform never had a ru passport, nor is entitled to one, for EXACTLY same reason. where does he sign up to be 'victim'

14:04:24 kakobrekla: that thought "fuck ill just go back to croatia later"

14:04:38 kakobrekla: only to figure out "i dont want to go back to croatia" later on.

14:05:09 kakobrekla: asciilifeform come here, sit in someones house, you are good for years.

14:05:51 asciilifeform: l0l

14:07:30 kakobrekla: they literally call them selfs 'izbrisani'. you will prolly understand the word.

14:08:50 shinohai: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/downtown-austin-vault-of-precious-metals-turns-up-/nnYS2/#st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/2X7WjLwJ7M

14:08:52 assbot: Downtown Austin vault of precious metals turns up mostly empty | www.mystatesman.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q0YS7t )

14:09:08 shinohai: Kinda like BTC, if you don't own private keys you don't own anything.

14:10:07 funkenstein_: shinohai, it begins

14:10:16 asciilifeform: except that gold requires a fortress. if you 'have' gold it isn't yours unless you also have nukes.

14:10:53 funkenstein_: asciilifeform, gold is best kept -away- from fortresses

14:11:22 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: see the canonical buried treasure thread.

14:11:42 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402

14:11:42 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom

14:12:07 asciilifeform: not really a solution.

14:12:38 funkenstein_: related story, guy sees neighbor has dug many holes in his yard. what is going on?

14:13:09 funkenstein_: guy says: "can't find gold, i dig it up every year to check".

14:13:32 funkenstein_: "well then, why not just put some tinfoil in there?"

14:16:20 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816523 <-- and i am back here yet again lol

14:16:20 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 21:36:01; asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time.

14:16:45 shinohai: http://blog.lifars.com/2015/09/08/the-internets-most-malicious-domains/

14:16:47 assbot: The Internet’s Most Malicious Domains | LIFARS ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpJKmy )

14:16:55 shinohai: The top 10 clean or ‘least-shady’ TLDs are: .gov and .mil LMAO

14:17:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00073928 = 2.4396 BTC [-]

14:18:29 funkenstein_: well if we work for the benefit of archaeologists, might as well throw them a bone once in a while :)

14:20:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268026 << am i the only one getting a surreal usg flavour from eating this? it has a distinct feel of 'see, this is what you get for using something usg can't magic into existence to make you whole'

14:20:44 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 14:08:50; shinohai: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/downtown-austin-vault-of-precious-metals-turns-up-/nnYS2/#st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/2X7WjLwJ7M

14:21:26 asciilifeform: the conflation of 'owning gold' and 'using xyz vault' is also reminiscent of the mtgox mediatronic idiocies

14:22:42 shinohai: Surely usg wants you to buy their minted gold.

14:23:58 asciilifeform: shinohai: aha. so long as you store it in a properly-search-and-confiscation-enabled container

14:24:02 asciilifeform: such as a u.s. bank box

14:24:05 asciilifeform: or your flat

14:24:53 shinohai: But God forbid you "destroy" it, i.e. melt to make your own bullion.

14:25:04 asciilifeform: you would have to be an idiot

14:25:07 asciilifeform: considering the markup

14:25:29 asciilifeform: (ask a circuit board house, where they get their au. is it the mint? l0l)

14:25:37 shinohai: Remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

14:25:38 assbot: Executive Order 6102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpKGaw )

14:25:44 asciilifeform: aha

14:27:13 asciilifeform: incidentally, gold was never entirely re-legalized in usa

14:27:24 asciilifeform: in the sense that contracts which specify payment in it, are still officially void

14:28:54 shinohai: Not like they can't or won't just make it legal/illegal on a whim at the stroke of a pen.

14:29:47 asciilifeform: shinohai: aha. though 'usg 2.0' thus far gets considerably better mileage with paper diddling rather than classical confiscation

14:29:57 asciilifeform: (the latter works best when there is ~something to take~)

14:31:31 asciilifeform: ~nobody but crackpots~ actually takes delivery, as per http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-08-2015#1240741

14:31:31 assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 19:35:54; mircea_popescu: irl, settlement's a paperwoirk affair and actual delivery is much disconsidered. as a token of the fact that everyone involved would muchly want reality to match their representation to the degree of absolute identity. so they desconsider the later.

14:32:10 asciilifeform: ergo paper gold is not market-separable, as it is, from actual gold; and usg silently prints it

14:32:23 asciilifeform: cheaper, cleaner than hanging people upside-down and beating coins out of'em

14:34:08 shinohai: Paper just gives me the illusion of owning something I actually do not.

14:38:15 *: shinohai prefers assets I can really hold: https://i.imgur.com/nNedV3f.jpg

14:38:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpMd0f )

14:46:45 shinohai: https://redd.it/3k0sxc <<< too stupid to use bitcoin?

14:46:47 assbot: 20 BTC reward for bitaddress.org issue : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1UH8KVb )

14:55:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46091 @ 0.0007469 = 34.4254 BTC [+]

15:05:32 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COXJfBSU8AAhcP1.png:large

15:05:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpPtc5 )

15:11:20 shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?

15:40:05 punkman: http://pqcrypto.eu.org/press.html

15:40:06 assbot: PQCRYPTO ICT-645622 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oz7aTI )

15:59:03 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Botlove, botlulz, and playing wannabes like a flute. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/09/09/botlove-botlulz-and-playing-wannabes-like-a-flute/

16:27:45 shinohai: !up ascii_field

16:28:19 ben_vulpes: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/09/in-consideration-for-my-appointment-to-secretary-of-labor/

16:28:20 assbot: In Consideration of My Appointment to Secretary of Labor | The Big Picture ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkjwvI )

16:32:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36163 @ 0.00074109 = 26.8 BTC [-] {4}

16:46:48 shinohai: !up analmaster

16:47:05 ascii_field: welcome analmaster !

16:47:09 analmaster: oh

16:47:11 analmaster: i have returned

16:47:25 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268075 << pure gold. Run Moar Kloud !

16:47:25 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 15:05:32; punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COXJfBSU8AAhcP1.png:large

16:47:49 ben_vulpes: !up VariaVarietatis

16:48:03 ben_vulpes: what's the deal, VariaVarietatis?

16:48:24 ben_vulpes: did you successfully run your rotor?

16:48:51 shinohai: What is hilarious ascii_field is *their whole lives are just shattered* because they cannot monitor their snowflakes from a screen.

16:49:20 ascii_field: wai wut ?

16:49:56 VariaVarietatis: point me to how to test my rotor is working? It seems to be able to getblockinfo but not getbalance using bitcoin-cli can't seem to find anything in the logs, mostly due to not knowing that to search for.

16:50:44 shinohai: Are you prefixing with LC_ALL=C ?

16:52:05 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: yea and I put my local ip 127.0.0.1 and node 195.211.154.159

16:52:40 shinohai: and afaik rotor doesn't use bitcoin-cli

16:52:55 VariaVarietatis: so how do I use it?

16:53:14 shinohai: Same as the old days bitcoind getbalance, etc

16:53:28 jurov: http://gizmodo.com/how-ashley-madison-hid-its-fembot-con-from-users-and-in-1728410265 kek

16:53:29 assbot: How Ashley Madison Hid Its Fembot Con From Users and Investigators ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkm8JT )

16:55:38 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: like LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 ?

16:56:41 jurov: getinfo works?

16:56:56 shinohai: Just LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance is sufficient

16:57:13 VariaVarietatis: jurov: in the bitcoin-cli it does

16:57:13 shinohai: Unless you specified a different datadir

16:58:24 shinohai: I added an alias so I don't have to type all that every time but it works for me

16:58:29 shinohai: !up ascii_field

17:01:32 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268102 >> obligatory >> http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/07/dead-souls.html

17:01:32 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 16:53:28; jurov: http://gizmodo.com/how-ashley-madison-hid-its-fembot-con-from-users-and-in-1728410265 kek

17:01:33 assbot: ClubOrlov: Dead Souls ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsEaR6 )

17:01:35 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: datadir? i'm running one copy connected then used another copy to run LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C gives me 0.0 but checking on blockchain it shows me this account has 27 btc

17:02:13 shinohai: Is this an address you control ?

17:02:30 VariaVarietatis: no I found this one just to check to see if it works

17:02:31 VariaVarietatis: tried a few

17:03:38 VariaVarietatis: I should be using my real ip also right? not 127.0.0.1?

17:04:33 shinohai: Shouldn't you use "validateaddress" instead?

17:04:49 jurov: sooo...an scam-cheap "KingDian" SSD came today from shenzhen, i have proceeded to test it with "badblocks -b 4096 -w -t random"

17:04:52 shinohai: wait, that doesnt return balance info ...hrm

17:05:03 jurov: had an uneasy feeling, went to check its source code

17:05:30 jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block

17:06:20 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: http://dpaste.com/09WZ24Y

17:06:21 assbot: dpaste: 09WZ24Y ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkntQX )

17:06:49 VariaVarietatis: last line is how im running it

17:07:19 shinohai: It is running fine, at least I see no issues.

17:08:17 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: what other commands can be used?

17:08:52 VariaVarietatis: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_calls_list#Full_list < list on the wiki

17:08:53 assbot: Original Bitcoin client/API calls list - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1LknGDM )

17:08:54 shinohai: Try https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_calls_list

17:08:55 assbot: Original Bitcoin client/API calls list - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1LknGUi )

17:09:01 shinohai: xD

17:09:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25793 @ 0.00074462 = 19.206 BTC [+]

17:11:44 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: http://dpaste.com/2E3V2J7 doesn't get transactions?

17:11:45 assbot: dpaste: 2E3V2J7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UBGCrO )

17:12:51 VariaVarietatis: also getmineinfo gives me method not found.

17:12:52 shinohai: Are you fully synced yet?

17:13:07 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: how would I know?

17:13:15 shinohai: Oh lawd

17:13:56 thestringpuller: 21days 2hours for blockheight 318709 on this current node.

17:14:22 VariaVarietatis: shinohai: I looked in the logs for this info found nothing sorry also stuff on maillist is only about building not using.

17:14:45 shinohai: VariaVarietatis: use getinfo and look at your block height

17:15:38 VariaVarietatis: "blocks" : 165381 ?

17:15:44 punkman: jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block << it says this in the manual

17:15:56 VariaVarietatis: so gotta wait for it to get to 318709+?

17:16:22 shinohai: Yes you must wait for it to sync

17:16:38 shinohai: Make some tea, roll a doob, go bang a prostitute.

17:16:46 shinohai: Might take a while.

17:17:56 thestringpuller: lol roll a doob...white people...

17:17:58 VariaVarietatis: ok thanks for all the help.

17:18:09 *: punkman bought a bag of chinese usb flash sticks with write-protect switch for "one-time use" and such

17:18:10 VariaVarietatis: gonna watch my number go up

17:18:22 VariaVarietatis: punkman: where?

17:18:51 shinohai: !up VariaVarietatis

17:18:57 jurov: punkman: here teh manul only says "the word "random", which specifies that the block should be filled with a random bit pattern."

17:18:59 punkman: VariaVarietatis: you should be able to find them on your favourite chinese gadget website

17:20:28 VariaVarietatis: Never been to a chinese gadget site, where do you look for such a thing?

17:21:39 punkman: !s chinese gadget site

17:21:40 assbot: 0 results for 'chinese gadget site' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chinese+gadget+site

17:21:49 punkman: ;;google chinese gadget site

17:21:50 gribble: DealeXtreme - Cool Gadgets at the Right Price - DX Free Shipping ...: ; China Wholesale Supplier - Online shopping for cheap electronics ...: ; Electronics Gadgets - High Tech Gadgets - New Technology Gadgets:

17:22:47 VariaVarietatis: http://www.dx.com/p/medisk-password-protected-security-usb-2-0-flash-drive-black-silver-8gb-189181#.VfBqy5TLdqI lol

17:22:48 assbot: MeDisk Password Protected Security USB 2.0 Flash Drive - Black + Silver (8GB) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkp8WP )

17:25:05 jurov: okay but i wanted something cheap and still performant enough to use with pogo

17:25:40 punkman: jurov: so does the cheap ssd work?

17:25:48 jurov: http://www.dx.com/p/kingdian-s400xt-2-5-sata3-smi2246xt-solid-state-drive-ssd-black-60gb-396431#.VfBrkqN9zmE

17:25:49 assbot: KingDian S400XT 2.5" SATA3 SMI2246XT Solid State Drive SSD - Black (60GB) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkpoVR )

17:25:51 jurov: so far yes

17:26:00 ascii_field: jurov: my experiments led me to the conclusion that usb (at least usb2) won't cut it, period.

17:26:10 ascii_field: on account of the high cpu overhead

17:26:21 jurov: going to rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero, will report

17:26:53 jurov: (urandom gives paltry 18MB/s, another annoyance of today)

17:27:41 ascii_field: these measurements can be deceptive re: pogo in particular, on account of the latter's sensitivity to cpu and especially bus starvation

17:27:43 punkman: jurov: what's the purpose of these tests?

17:28:27 jurov: punkman i got a crate of pogos, doing some research about matchin'them with cheap ssd's

17:28:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.0007443 = 11.4622 BTC [-] {3}

17:29:17 punkman: jurov, well yes, but what is "rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero" gonna tell you?

17:29:58 jurov: that it isn't such a scam as the price indicates and can probably bear the blockchain

17:30:33 jurov: after rewrite, there will be read and comapre the sum

17:30:50 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:31:02 jurov: badblocks test was inconsequential, cuz the drive could easily optimize it away

17:31:12 ascii_field: punkman: how else would you propose to verify that the drive can hold the X MB that vendor claimed it holds ?

17:44:48 punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away

17:51:02 mircea_popescu: davout done meanwhiole but thx.

17:51:08 mircea_popescu: !up lifesfun

17:53:44 shinohai: http://www.2600.com/content/2600-accused-using-unauthorized-ink-splotches

17:53:46 assbot: 2600 ACCUSED OF USING UNAUTHORIZED INK SPLOTCHES | 2600 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkt4Xy )

17:59:15 punkman: "It's indeed impressive that Trunk Archive managed to match these little ink splotches." << makes one wonder how much computing power is being wasted on this

18:00:14 punkman: ah of course http://www.picscout.com/pr/getty-images-acquires-picscout/

18:00:16 assbot: Getty Images Acquires PicScout | PicScoutPicScout ... ( http://bit.ly/1LktUn7 )

18:03:15 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:03:33 ascii_field: 'You see, not only are they trying to get us to pay them for using a few ink splotches, but as it turns out, the ink splotches don't belong to them in the first place! Our cover artist happened to keep meticulous records (probably not something they anticipated) and traced the source of the ink splotches to a Finnish artist...'

18:04:02 ascii_field: intellektooal propertyh!!!1111

18:04:47 mircea_popescu: it IS copied, however.

18:05:05 punkman: funny how http://www.lcs.global/ http://www.trunkarchive.com/ http://www.picscout.com/ are all related but don't mention each other

18:05:06 assbot: LCS - License Compliance Services ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkutNO )

18:05:08 assbot: Trunk Archive - Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkuu4c )

18:05:09 assbot: Home - PicScoutPicScout ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkur8E )

18:05:27 ascii_field: 'I did some ink backgrounds for my upcoming artworks, and I thought I'd share the textures with the rest of the world. Free for non-commercial/commercial use. Feel free to post on your blogs etc. Crediting is not required, but would be nice.'

18:05:34 ascii_field: (from linked source)

18:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58650 @ 0.000741 = 43.4597 BTC [-] {5}

18:07:26 mircea_popescu: such a great find shinohai

18:07:29 mircea_popescu: !rated shinohai

18:07:29 assbot: You rated user shinohai on 03-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..

18:08:00 shinohai: Thx. 2600 was like the first irc server I ever used.

18:13:30 shinohai: In other copyright news, the author of the song "Eye of the Tiger" is considering suing Kim Davis for using the song at her release from jail rally yesterday.

18:13:50 shinohai: https://www.yahoo.com/music/survivor-did-not-grant-kentucky-county-clerk-kim-128671777736.html

18:13:54 mircea_popescu: maybe puts her right back in jail

18:14:01 mircea_popescu: "improper celebration of release - 5 years"

18:19:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00073723 = 30.8899 BTC [-] {5}

18:23:10 shinohai: Don't hate me cuz it's github: https://github.com/Xyl2k/TSA-Travel-Sentry-master-keys

18:23:11 assbot: Xyl2k/TSA-Travel-Sentry-master-keys · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkwQA2 )

18:23:36 mircea_popescu: well at least it doesn't have the word retard on it.

18:24:31 ascii_field: shinohai: as if it were difficult to make master keys based on disassembled lock.

18:24:39 ascii_field: (when said lock is designed for master)

18:25:45 mircea_popescu: so wait. carrying water not being difficult (when one is not obese) is somehow a detraction from plumbing ?

18:26:14 ascii_field: !s have to chew

18:26:15 assbot: 10 results for 'have to chew' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=have+to+chew

18:26:25 ascii_field: !s have to dip

18:26:26 assbot: 9 results for 'have to dip' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=have+to+dip

18:26:28 ascii_field: ^

18:26:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00073709 = 14.9629 BTC [-]

18:28:19 *: mircea_popescu doesn't get it.

18:34:16 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

18:34:23 mircea_popescu: ahh grep * how i love you.

18:35:52 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Ars gratia artis sau cum era, or The function and the functioning of art part deux - http://fraudsters.com/2015/ars-gratia-artis-sau-cum-era-or-the-function-and-the-functioning-of-art-part-deux/

18:37:22 shinohai: Whatever you paid for that was worth every satoshi.

18:37:51 mircea_popescu: win huh

18:38:39 ascii_field: mega-pic

18:39:18 mircea_popescu: chick's talented.

18:40:23 shinohai: Luke-Jr. on a unicycle lolz

18:42:37 ascii_field: which one is szabo ?

18:43:14 ascii_field: fella in the robe ?

18:44:14 trinque: ah that's really good

18:45:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6915 @ 0.0007447 = 5.1496 BTC [+]

18:46:48 mircea_popescu: lol szabo in robe

18:48:51 punkman: http://archillect.com/

18:48:52 assbot: Archillect ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lkzo14 )

18:57:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267818 << for the record, a "modern military base" IS a horrible castle.

18:57:08 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:41:49; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'

18:57:16 mircea_popescu: and it has proven this point in medieval places, such as iraq.

18:57:46 mircea_popescu: modern military still suffers of the problem of the panzer 80 years ago : can take any position and hold absolutely none.

18:58:02 ascii_field: and rifle is an absolutely terrible longbow, also

18:58:20 mircea_popescu: not so. there is no contest where people armed with rifles lose to people armed with bows.

18:58:30 mircea_popescu: there are NUMEROUS contests where people in modern bases lose to partisans.

18:58:35 mircea_popescu: in fact, the majority these days.

18:58:51 ascii_field: not clear that castle would have changed the outcome there

18:58:58 mircea_popescu: that is not an argument.

18:59:05 mircea_popescu: we're not discussing the merits of the castl.e here.

19:00:37 mircea_popescu: also note that medieval commander answered for permanence. whereas modern commander answers for "accomplishment". very different end goals drive very different behaviours.

19:01:36 mircea_popescu: for austin, "taking baghdad" once a week for three years straight would have been an excellent outcome : over one hundred allied victories!!11

19:01:59 ascii_field: american commander answers for... hell knows what? boots properly polished ?

19:02:23 jurov: so.. the ssd passed and the rotor will have something to rotate

19:02:25 mircea_popescu: try telling that to as-saffah tho, "i've lost baghdad once a week"

19:03:01 ascii_field: jurov: very spiffy. consider posting what part you used, how tested, where to buy...

19:03:16 jurov: posted above

19:03:18 *: mircea_popescu doesn't remember what it passed ?

19:03:30 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it was in today's log

19:03:34 jurov: !s kingdian

19:03:35 assbot: 2 results for 'kingdian' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=kingdian

19:03:43 mircea_popescu: im working on it kk

19:04:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267823 << as a factual matter, this is not true.

19:04:14 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:43:38; asciilifeform: just as properly made furniture does not contain glue.

19:04:21 mircea_popescu: but i don't think it detracts from the actual point.

19:04:37 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:04:48 ascii_field: perhaps i ought to have said, 'contains very little glue'

19:04:58 shinohai: Thx jurov. On my list of items to purchase when I actually get a working pogo binary.

19:05:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267836 << server crapped out or something.

19:05:50 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:50:01; kakobrekla: btw iirc today is tx spam day ?

19:05:51 jurov: shinohai: i'd recommend to use 120G version instead, 60G will be obsolete soon

19:05:54 mircea_popescu: you know how it goes.

19:06:32 trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-mideast-crisis-syria-exclusive-idUSKCN0R91H720150909 << I continue to see the future demise of the US empire in this.

19:06:33 assbot: Exclusive: Russian troops join combat in Syria - sources | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkAZEc )

19:06:35 BingoBoingo: But as a point, properly made furniture does in fact not include nails

19:06:35 trinque: and not far future

19:06:35 mircea_popescu: speaking of "will be obsolete soon" : we need that aribtrary checkpoint thing. if provided, node owner could store old chain apart.

19:06:50 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has it.

19:07:04 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: remind me what this was

19:07:12 mircea_popescu: there are some fine examples from chinese era of overabundance when they used supertiny nails.

19:07:19 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, nails ruin the wood.

19:07:23 BingoBoingo: Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture

19:07:35 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know how the code nos supports "developer mandated" checkpoints ?

19:07:42 mircea_popescu: the idea was to make them user-enacted.

19:07:49 shinohai: K jurov. mats sent me sufficient btc to purchase a pogo, but I only got an inferior drive with it. Planned on getting something a little more robust

19:08:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267846 <<< end of story.

19:08:52 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:56:36; asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.

19:08:59 mircea_popescu: you want to bury them in the ocean for 1k years.

19:09:16 jurov: even after checkpoints, it's nice to have for querying the history

19:09:39 shinohai: Better to have room for growth

19:10:11 mircea_popescu: jurov yeah but the idea being that you run many nodes with smaller disks for day to day ops

19:10:23 mircea_popescu: and have a airgapped system with the full history etc that's not exposed to the internet.

19:10:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'checkpoint' thing is actually useless as implemented now, it merely skips verification for the listed blocks

19:10:37 ascii_field: -verifyall disables it entirely

19:10:43 ascii_field: and verifies ~all~

19:10:49 mircea_popescu: different tools for different jobs as it were. the corrosive substance of usg-ness makes anyth9ng on the public net vulnerable, and zerging the only possible approach to survival.

19:10:58 mircea_popescu: ascii_field yeah.

19:11:13 ascii_field: what we considered wanting was an entirely different kind of checkpoint

19:12:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267858 << who speaks chinese here ? fluently ? because as your point re google : chinese speaker in fucking china is about as useful or important as dung beetle.

19:12:12 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:04:44; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267551 << for what, exactly ? and did the asteroid hit, or what, is there a shortage of cn speakers now?

19:13:11 mircea_popescu: ascii_field btw, i started a measuring, my node pulls ~600 blocks/hour

19:13:20 mircea_popescu: (you were complaining about delay)

19:13:54 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 600 of which blocks

19:14:05 ascii_field: skinny early blox or fat modern ones

19:14:21 mircea_popescu: 320k

19:14:30 ascii_field: neato

19:14:46 mircea_popescu: i didn't boither measuring early, who the fuck cares, but i would guess it did 10k an hour or some shit

19:14:52 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc mats spoke cn

19:14:53 mircea_popescu: it'd have done(

19:15:40 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: incidentally, dulap is all backed up.

19:15:48 mircea_popescu: alrighty ima pull the plug then

19:15:55 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267816 << to continue this thread, my contention is that while many things I write with special notation could just as well be s-exprs, making me read and write these things as s-exprs is catastrophic

19:15:55 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:39:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267236 << the path to fits-in-head STRICTLY depends on every particular thing on the machine being implemented ONCE. this includes lexer, parser, related items.

19:16:05 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not waiting for replacement ?

19:16:29 mircea_popescu: why ? you said useless neh ?

19:16:37 ascii_field: well it displays old results

19:16:49 ascii_field: but this is prolly not worth whatever mircea_popescu is paying for it

19:19:04 ascii_field: the demise of this box is unfortunate. i was gonna put an experimental version of www-ized 'v' explorer there, also

19:19:16 mircea_popescu: yeah well. unfortunate is what the world's made of.

19:19:22 ascii_field: and it was where 'bleeding edge' therealbitcoin lived.

19:19:37 mircea_popescu: obviously if people weren't schmucks we could have nice things.

19:19:42 mircea_popescu: but they are, and so we can't.

19:20:04 mircea_popescu: and we'll kill them, and they'll want to know why, "Que tes ennemis expirants"

19:20:18 mircea_popescu: and we probably won't bother to answer, and they'll derp more, in their children, and so it goes.

19:20:24 mircea_popescu: and has gone. for a long, long time now.

19:21:48 ascii_field: https://archive.is/eS8RO https://archive.is/muu01 << fresh snapshots

19:21:49 assbot: So far: | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCEK7 )

19:21:50 assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCF0n )

19:22:37 trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-exclusive-idUSKCN0R924G20150909 << "The plan includes a site for studying the tactics of the U.S. Army, which was called a "likely enemy" in the document."

19:22:39 assbot: Exclusive: Russia building major military base near Ukrainian border | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCKRV )

19:22:41 mircea_popescu: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/09/no-blacks-is-not-a-sexual-preference-it-s-racism.html <<<->>> http://whitebecky00.tumblr.com/

19:22:42 assbot: ‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCMcx )

19:22:43 assbot: Slave for Blacks ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCO3U )

19:22:51 mircea_popescu: it's always great when two kinds of maculature meet.

19:22:58 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to log in & zero the disk whenever.

19:23:17 *: mircea_popescu is not gonna bother

19:23:44 ascii_field: there is literally nothing secret on this box.

19:23:53 mircea_popescu: but anyway : "racism" is exactly the derp word for sexual preference. the reason some people don't like other people is purely sexual.

19:24:26 ascii_field: trinque: who else could be 'likely enemy' ?! martians ?!??

19:24:38 trinque: obviously I'm not surprised at that.

19:24:47 ascii_field: 'вероятный противник' (tm)

19:25:07 trinque: I eagerly await the overturning of the world, as it has been chewing the back of my mind a long while.

19:25:40 ascii_field: 'sergeant: private! why were you walking the street wearing the pants of the Likely Enemy ?!' ('80s ru army joke)

19:25:56 mircea_popescu: hahaha veroyatnij

19:26:01 mircea_popescu: "vraisemblable"

19:26:06 mircea_popescu: such french

19:26:22 ascii_field: ~= probable

19:26:29 mircea_popescu: yup

19:26:53 mircea_popescu: with a sprinkle of credible / persuasiable.

19:27:12 mircea_popescu: "an undismissable argument may be brought that this will be so"

19:27:20 ascii_field: aha.

19:27:45 mircea_popescu: pointedly no judgement as to likeliness or future course of events is made

19:27:53 mircea_popescu: what the word describes is a purely intellectual situation, today.

19:28:07 mircea_popescu: sad that the anglos have no languages, or linguistics whatsoever.

19:28:28 trinque: but we made a new iPhone

19:28:34 mircea_popescu: aokthen

19:30:19 mircea_popescu: ascii_field incidentally isn't it potrivnik ?

19:30:23 mircea_popescu: it's protivnik ?!

19:30:38 ascii_field: противник.

19:30:43 ascii_field: == opponent

19:30:53 mircea_popescu: nuts. romanian has the word, same meaning, but the r migrated.

19:31:04 mircea_popescu: is this a latin influence in russian, is тивник anything ?

19:31:09 jurov: slovak has exactly same word

19:31:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: consonants wander as you go west

19:31:13 ascii_field: look at the czechs

19:31:17 mircea_popescu: lol

19:31:25 jurov: czechs too incidentally

19:31:31 mircea_popescu: the czechs consonants wandered because they munch too much cunmt

19:32:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: против == against

19:32:17 ascii_field: opposed.

19:32:24 mircea_popescu: anyway in ro it has an entire migrated family : deopotriva (of the same ilk), impotriva (against) etc

19:33:01 mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.

19:33:24 thestringpuller: wind 27

19:33:41 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller your article ever end up onb twitter ?

19:34:15 thestringpuller: yea https://twitter.com/search?q=qntra&src=typd

19:34:22 mircea_popescu: bah. i meant reddit lol

19:34:30 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268372 << betcha jp has 7 variants of this...

19:34:30 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 19:33:01; mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.

19:34:42 mircea_popescu: or none.

19:34:54 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:35:13 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they have many more than 2 ты/вы addresses

19:35:26 mircea_popescu: i thought they just had san

19:35:30 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea. that too. actually got submitted by 3 separate people @_@

19:35:35 mircea_popescu: i saw it on my ipad from jobs-san

19:35:44 ascii_field: e.g., male-superior, female-superior, male-divine, female-divine, male-subordinate, female-subordinate, male-child, female-child, ..., prolly more

19:35:46 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ahaha win. downvoted erry time ?

19:36:50 punkman: ascii_field: way more than those https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics

19:36:51 assbot: Japanese honorifics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkEoCT )

19:37:23 thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/domain/qntra.net/ << the first one was submitted during low traffic time. the other three have different titles.

19:38:41 ben_vulpes: Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture << aye aye

19:38:47 ben_vulpes: "joinery"

19:39:01 ben_vulpes: but when i want to build builtins in my rental, i use compressed air and nails.

19:39:31 trinque: http://www.rt.com/news/314787-russia-air-bases-csto/ << damn, USistan is weaker by the day.

19:39:31 assbot: Russia is ready to establish airbases in neighboring countries – Russian PM — RT News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkEKtg )

19:39:43 trinque: I recall recently Putin calling for an international something against terrorism.

19:40:00 trinque: I wonder if that will develop into something specific against US-supported terrorism.

19:40:05 mircea_popescu: lmao if the romanians manage the performance of leasing some land to the russians right next to the land their leased the americans to make their military bases

19:40:11 mircea_popescu: it'd only be like the nth time historically lol.

19:40:19 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cuba, l0l

19:40:29 mircea_popescu: lightweights

19:40:37 mircea_popescu: ro's been doing it for like 1800 years

19:41:02 ascii_field: (iirc the ru lease in cuba lapsed when they couldn't make rent in '90s)

19:41:21 mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, the su's got that superb su, they gotta use it before the window closes in 5 -10years.

19:41:52 trinque: the plane?

19:42:18 mircea_popescu: (/me vaguely suspects that much like the french get the trophy for "last and therefore best supersonic air transport", the ru may get the trophy for "last and therefore best" fighter jet. i somehow doubt a better one's ever getting made, by anyone)

19:42:22 mircea_popescu: yes the plane.

19:43:00 ascii_field: not many folks remember today who made the best bombard, either.

19:43:34 mircea_popescu: not many folks remember today where their asshole is located. wut of it.

19:43:56 trinque: gonna be a sad thing when we try to field whichever f35s can fly

19:44:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00074359 = 21.7128 BTC [-] {3}

19:45:06 ascii_field: trinque: why not simply throw trunks of benjies at the enemy, aha

19:45:23 ascii_field: (before window closes ! while they're worth something !)

19:45:43 mircea_popescu: hehehe ayup.

19:45:50 *: mircea_popescu wonders if bullet sized missiles will ever happen.

19:46:03 mircea_popescu: "why learn how to shoot ? fire our ICBM Pea at your enemies!"

19:46:04 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc lockheed was advertising this

19:46:09 mircea_popescu: yeah well.

19:46:14 ascii_field: doesn't mean quite same thing as 'happened' aha

19:46:17 trinque: there was some DoD wank about self-steering bullets

19:46:25 mircea_popescu: and MIT was adverttiosing "learn how to light lightbulbs and other wonders of 1800 science! TODAY!"

19:47:10 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-02-2015#1026842 << see also.

19:47:10 assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 04:28:52; asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built

19:48:45 *: trinque thought the caspian sea monster and other ground-effect planes were this, but recently considered the value of massive transport across the caspian and black seas

19:49:08 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: self-steering projectile ~really~ wants to be a rocket, not only because guidance apparatus costs and so may as well include large warhead, but also because changing direction kills velocity if all you got is the acceleration in the barrel (classical bullet)

19:49:34 mircea_popescu: uayup

19:49:48 ascii_field: trinque: 'экраноплан' - but think of it as a very fast gunboat, rather than a plane

19:50:21 trinque: the largest one seemed capable of moving more than a few tanks

19:50:40 mircea_popescu: the hercules moves like a dozen planes, and actually flies.

19:50:51 mircea_popescu: if you just have it hover on water, you should be able to move a fucking tank plant.

19:51:08 trinque: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--C4euWJ8m--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_north,h_358,q_80,w_636/195msu6s5gizsjpg.jpg

19:51:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkGuTv )

19:51:22 trinque: bleh, gawker. but anyhow, there's the beast

19:51:46 mircea_popescu: that'd kick ass btw. "our fleet consists of this flagship that is a tank factory. it outputs tanks in continuous motion (60mph) 4 thick."

19:52:14 ascii_field: l0l 'warcraft' & co

19:54:34 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 60 * 1.6 * 4 * 200

19:54:34 gribble: 76800

19:54:40 mircea_popescu: 77k tanks an hour, not so bad.

19:55:28 mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, i dunno if you ever played this, but there was a GREAT, an absoluterly fucking fantastic game in the pre-windows days

19:55:42 mircea_popescu: 3dmax or something. initialism like that. ace. something.

19:56:05 mircea_popescu: in a distopian future with a very gritty burnished steel look and feel about it, you built all sorts of tanks, helicopters etc,

19:56:15 mircea_popescu: to get the enemy base. did research for them too, gathered resources,

19:56:23 mircea_popescu: a sort of much better starwars before starwars

19:56:31 ascii_field: 'command & conquer' ?

19:56:46 mircea_popescu: M.A.X.: Mechanized Assault & Exploration

19:56:47 mircea_popescu: ha!

19:57:00 mircea_popescu: that game was so fucking great...

19:57:36 mircea_popescu: imo still unsurpassed.

19:57:49 ascii_field: imho even 1980s 'ranger' is unsurpassed still

19:58:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.juegomania.org/M.A.X.%3A+Mechanized+Assault+%26+Exploration/foto/pc/0/270/270.jpg/Foto+M.A.X.%3A+Mechanized+Assault+%26+Exploration.jpg

19:58:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkHVRD )

19:58:25 mircea_popescu: those fucking pipes. you had to defend the pipes.

19:58:27 ascii_field: the one where you were a lone diversant sent behind enemy lines, and had to choose whether the weight of, e.g., extra demo charge is worth losing three frags or five pistol clips, etc

19:58:57 mats: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34188569

19:58:58 assbot: Who are these Russian fighters posting pics of themselves in Syria? - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkI1Je )

19:59:24 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i suppose this is what the obese have ruined in the world. scarcity.

19:59:37 ascii_field: http://thehouseofgames.org/index.php?t=10&id=138

19:59:37 assbot: Airborne ranger (1987) review for MS-DOS, Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkI8Ep )

19:59:52 ascii_field: i fucking loved this little thing

20:00:51 mircea_popescu: and com,mand and conquer fucking sucked.

20:00:57 ascii_field: aha

20:01:08 mircea_popescu: generally speaking, real time anything is for idiots.

20:01:10 ascii_field: which is why i was a little surprised when thought it was mentioned

20:01:15 ascii_field: ^^ yes!

20:01:24 mircea_popescu: go twitch in a fucking jar on a shelf already.

20:01:30 ascii_field: 'real time' generally == 'arm wrestle'

20:01:49 mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, if we make all messages 140 characters your advantages over us won't be so obvious"

20:02:08 ascii_field: procrustes called, wants sofa back

20:02:26 lobbes: generally speaking, real time anything is for idiots << heh, Eulora is real-time ;/

20:02:36 lobbes: but hence, the 'generally'

20:02:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267901 << it's an epic fucking win. they can still READ.

20:02:42 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:26:49; asciilifeform: this is not a win.

20:02:49 mircea_popescu: they do not need to talk back just because they walk.

20:03:02 mircea_popescu: lobbes how is it real time ?

20:03:55 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i suppose it is a win then that i cannot ask stoutemyer anything. after all, my only qualification is 'can walk', aha.

20:04:13 mircea_popescu: hey, if you like the stick like the lube too.

20:04:36 lobbes: mircea_popescu: if you are not playing you 'fall behind' the economy? though, that is the beauty of the 'encouraged bots' system

20:04:57 mircea_popescu: but i'd note that if there was a #derive-assets where i could get a half hour's window, this would be a non problem.

20:05:15 mircea_popescu: lobbes people assume this is the case but i have not observed it to be true.

20:05:28 lobbes: !up ascii_field

20:05:33 jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex

20:05:38 mircea_popescu: jurov will do.

20:05:39 trinque: BingoBoingo: you approve of fastmail?

20:06:14 BingoBoingo: trinque: All email providers suck. I don't endorse fastmail, but I condemn it less than other options.

20:06:16 jurov: lobbes: just your skills rust. but low skills are useful,too

20:06:26 ascii_field: l0l derive-assets

20:06:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267916 << you must think very little of me then!

20:06:41 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:35:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'

20:07:06 lobbes: jurov: yeah, it seems n00bs are valuable due to fact. very interesting indeed

20:07:18 trinque: BingoBoingo: certainly; e-mail itself sucks, and I'm ready to accept that it's as bad as using facebook messenger, and let someone else run spamassassin day and night

20:07:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267920 << this is where it's headed.

20:07:19 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:36:35; asciilifeform: b) want graphics. WE DON'T HAVE A SANE GRAPHICS STACK

20:07:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you - or anybody else - can write something recognizable as this item, i promise to take off my hat

20:07:33 trinque: want to send me a real message? gpg-gram me

20:07:44 ascii_field: but the foundations aren't there.

20:08:10 trinque: I would use a text-only computer all day provided it had something of a net connection

20:08:34 *: trinque checks his workspaces for graphics, finds only text

20:08:35 mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, that's not the point. the point is that what, seriously, ima sit here and go "hey, this shit's pretty good" ?

20:08:39 mircea_popescu: when did that happen.

20:09:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: imho you were falling into this very bear trap with the 'nano' thread

20:09:01 ascii_field: see log.

20:09:14 mircea_popescu: trinque i woke up last night to the fact that email only persists because we havewn't fully groked the importance and effects of b-a yet.

20:09:15 ascii_field: it is very easy to become convinced that the only available item doesn't suck

20:09:25 mircea_popescu: ascii_field a) i didn't make it!

20:09:30 mircea_popescu: wtf. i also use gpg.

20:09:55 mircea_popescu: what happened when deedbot didn't have a faq ?

20:10:52 ascii_field: alternatively

20:10:54 BingoBoingo: lol, the Hearnia mempool solution is randomly drop tx so that all spam has a home somewhere https://archive.is/NgRdK

20:10:55 assbot: Mempool size limiting — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkKcMP )

20:11:01 ascii_field: what happened when tmsr didn't have a foundry?

20:11:25 shinohai: LOL @ Hearnia

20:11:26 trinque: mircea_popescu: yes I think using "the logs" has a lot of fruit left to give

20:11:57 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: a) enemy reads the logs, mega-surprise aha b) this is roughly isomorphic to the old behaviour, 'crash when full'

20:12:16 mircea_popescu: trinque indeed!

20:12:29 shinohai: He never responded to my queries as to why he is too good to sign binaries he barfs out to the wider internet.

20:12:43 mircea_popescu: ascii_field their inability to observe isomorphism is one of their lulziest features.

20:12:45 ascii_field: c) it is necessary so hearn can bolt on tx blacklisting later

20:12:55 jurov: i remember we discussed when the patch went in

20:13:00 jurov: but can;t find it

20:13:10 mircea_popescu: (and a forced mistake, too. in odrder to avoid noticing the isomorphism between yourself and turd in the sun, you're stuck breaking the isomorphism recognizer)

20:13:44 mircea_popescu: shinohai the key to success is to not answer to negative people. he knows because altman said so.

20:14:43 mircea_popescu: "the xt is not a huge privacy hole because you can recompile it not to be. we're banking on thefact the fucktards in usg-zoo won'tanyway. we don't sign binaries but it could be done if needed except we're banking on idem"

20:14:48 mircea_popescu: very well oiled, the cattle machine.

20:15:14 *: mircea_popescu is looking forward to thew v-tron being misrepresented as "drm".

20:15:34 shinohai: Cattle machine indeed.

20:15:38 mircea_popescu: (it will be. and to THEIR detriment, because it's very much a poison pill for that entire industree)

20:15:41 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: neh it'll be 'embraced' and extended

20:15:59 mircea_popescu: github already trying this but it won't work for very good reasons.

20:16:03 ascii_field: rewritten in ruby, claimed to have been in steady use at stanford since 1995, the whole orchestra.

20:16:20 ascii_field: like phuctor.

20:16:22 mircea_popescu: nah

20:16:28 mircea_popescu: that dun work.

20:16:33 ascii_field: why not ?

20:16:39 mircea_popescu: ima tell you why.

20:16:52 *: shinohai pops popcorn

20:17:09 mircea_popescu: for the same rason disinfo agent is stuck discussing "quiantum hjardening" and "cpu arch based attacks". ie, he is NOT ALLOWED to give even a single inch. which terribly boxes him in.

20:17:15 *: ascii_field struggles to think of even one useful tool that doesn't have a retarded usgized variant - e.g., gpg

20:17:33 mircea_popescu: all the important bits we have are radioactive to them

20:17:41 mircea_popescu: which precludes effectual approach

20:17:49 ascii_field: could have supposed same thing about public key crypto

20:17:55 ascii_field: but it was absorbed quite readily

20:17:59 mircea_popescu: and yes this must stay so. which is why my comment re you must think little of me above.

20:18:04 mircea_popescu: not so.

20:18:14 mircea_popescu: it was not absorbed readily at all, for one thing.

20:18:54 ascii_field: surely mircea_popescu knows that usg (esp. .mil) makes heavy use of an internal tard pgp by microshit

20:19:01 ascii_field: yes, this exists

20:19:08 ascii_field: complete with magical cards

20:19:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, incorporated here by reference, the discussion where i showed you how holding bitcoin destroys nsa.

20:19:22 ascii_field: now this i recall

20:19:32 mircea_popescu: the same exact principle is to be employed throughout : either they ignore the bits which makes them uncompetitivew

20:19:37 mircea_popescu: or they use the bits which makes them us.

20:19:41 mircea_popescu: no third way.

20:19:48 ascii_field: iirc this was a theme in 'lord of the rings' aha

20:19:52 mircea_popescu: and so yes, b-a browser

20:20:13 ascii_field: my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine

20:20:21 ascii_field: because spittoon ~is~ in one strand

20:20:40 ascii_field: because libjpeg, x11, et al, must die

20:20:44 mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm firmly in the camp of "let people try things"

20:20:44 BingoBoingo: my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine << TI-92

20:20:51 trinque: I have a question regarding this. Would a device operating at the network boundary, parsing packets and only permitting some signed wad in, only signed wads out be valuable in any way?

20:21:05 ascii_field: trinque: i described this device in agonizing detail

20:21:14 mircea_popescu: trinque maybe.

20:21:15 ascii_field: some time during the original gossipd thread

20:21:23 mike_c: ben_vulpes: I'm used to doctests. how do i run your v unittests?

20:21:23 jurov: trinque: problem is it can be easily dosed

20:21:23 trinque: aha, and I discussed it with you before as well

20:21:43 ascii_field: trinque: imho it is the only correct way to make a network at all.

20:21:54 jurov: only recourse is for the enemy to not know exact endpoint

20:22:02 ascii_field: what we have today is roughly analogous to early spark gap radio

20:22:05 mircea_popescu: ascii_field and that's also what the msr license is all about, too.

20:22:11 mircea_popescu: jurov recourse is to have many of them.

20:22:12 ascii_field: where there was room for exactly one transmitter/receiver per continent

20:22:22 mircea_popescu: ddos only works a) briefly and b) on large targets.

20:22:25 mircea_popescu: it's a sort of laser.

20:22:25 ben_vulpes: mike_c: python -m unittest test_v

20:22:33 trinque: seems that if everything coming/going is parsed, verified, it drastically reduces the amount of remote exploitation possible

20:22:41 trinque: and that seems a far smaller target to build than a whole new arch

20:22:48 mike_c: kthx. maybe test_v.py should have if __init__==main unittest.main()? is that not standard?

20:23:02 ascii_field: mike_c: if you like

20:23:18 mike_c: i haven't used this module much. not sure what sop is.

20:23:24 mike_c: this module = unittest

20:23:30 ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me

20:23:35 jurov: mircea_popescu: i don't see any big obstacle against ddosing 1000 targets with slow connections vs. targeting one

20:23:40 mircea_popescu: ascii_field dude let people do what they do.

20:23:44 mike_c: i'm just trying to run the tests for now :)

20:23:48 *: ascii_field lets

20:23:56 mircea_popescu: jurov is this an argument to ignorance ?

20:24:14 jurov: why ignorance?

20:24:18 mircea_popescu: "i don't see"

20:24:18 ben_vulpes: mike_c: nominally unittest does test discovery, i focused on making tests though.

20:24:23 mike_c: ah

20:24:43 ben_vulpes: it should run with python -m unittest from the same directory as v, but...

20:25:01 jurov: i'm trying to imagine this thing. if we are going to have 1000 nodes , they will necessarily be on misc home connections

20:25:07 ben_vulpes: this is a thing i do once per project and always forget how it's supposed to go.

20:25:07 ascii_field: trinque, jurov: if device which silently drops unsigned (or signed by unblessed) packets straight on the floor were mass-produced and inexpensive, ddos as a thing ends.

20:25:27 mircea_popescu: jurov it's unsound to proceed from that point by makin assumptions.

20:25:29 ben_vulpes: and then on top of that, every project i pick up has some arcane setup for running its tests, because...legacy.

20:25:31 ascii_field: or rather, doesn't end, but becomes a voluntary idiocy like running winblowz

20:25:46 mircea_popescu: ascii_field and so as alf would point out, "nothing hapepened"

20:25:52 mike_c: it's running now, and failing.

20:26:11 ben_vulpes: ya, one out of 16?

20:26:15 ben_vulpes: "always leave a failing test"

20:26:16 ascii_field: mike_c: what is

20:26:21 trinque: seems I could have whatever shitty computers I like behind such a device, and could be relatively certain that no command and control messages are making it in

20:26:21 mike_c: yeah, 1

20:26:28 trinque: provided the device *works* obviously

20:26:31 mircea_popescu: jurov consider the experimentally verified, and publicly at that, fact that ddos couldn't do any appreciabvle harm to qntra, or fraudsters.

20:27:00 ben_vulpes: mike_c: that is the test i left off at. feel free to replace the "gotcha" assertion with an actual test, or just eliminate the assertion completely.

20:27:00 mircea_popescu: and this without any sort of imperial investments, either. also quite deliberately, and at least in part for the reason of this discussion.

20:27:02 jurov: and they examine each packet signature?

20:27:07 mike_c: got it

20:27:10 *: jurov is confused

20:27:29 mircea_popescu: wait, you wanted cpu-based ddos ?

20:28:04 mircea_popescu: because cpus are so much better than pipes these days, a dirty little secret the us telcos have managed to hide from their market like they managed to hide the fact that NOBODY CHARGES FOR INCOMING CALLS!!11,

20:28:13 mircea_popescu: most ddos is pipe exhaustion not cpu exhaustion.

20:28:23 ascii_field: ^ someone did not know this ?!

20:28:29 mircea_popescu: everyone all the time.

20:28:36 *: jurov is now more confused

20:29:16 jurov: the discussion is about per-packet signature verification

20:29:23 jurov: which none named does

20:29:35 jurov: and thus can shrug any ddos

20:29:40 jurov: amiright?

20:29:44 mircea_popescu: when you say ddos people are going to assume you mean, you know, as it is.

20:29:44 ascii_field: jurov: aha. see the old gossipd thread.

20:29:45 mike_c: and if i alter one of the public keys more tests fail, so that's good.

20:30:22 mircea_popescu: ie, you put the filter node up, yet it can't be accessed because syn flood. irrespective of its function.

20:30:27 ascii_field: jurov: basic principle, at least in my variant of its statement, was that an unknown endpoint is to be listened to STRICTLY for as long as it takes to establish that it can sign with a key that you wot.

20:30:43 ascii_field: AND that this can take place at line speed.

20:31:00 mircea_popescu: iirc that was left as a maybe.

20:31:15 mircea_popescu: (the 2nd clause)

20:31:31 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i can show rigorously that it can be. but requires custom si.

20:32:15 ascii_field: also it will of course depend on the line. but you can mux/demux the bits, recall.

20:32:18 trinque: what if it didn't verify the sig; it just verified that it looks like a sig, and hands off to something that can

20:32:24 ascii_field: trinque: mno

20:32:28 ascii_field: trinque: that does nothing.

20:32:49 ascii_field: simply means that the enemy needs to spend three minutes adjusting his shit cannon

20:33:49 *: trinque doesn't expect fabs on the battlefield, trying to consider what the simplest useful piece of hardware might be

20:34:15 ascii_field: the thing to understand is that 'hardware gosspid' nodes would form an impenetrable skin around a p2p sane internet.

20:34:24 trinque: I understand that very well.

20:34:59 trinque: was imagining a network device connected in three directions, outside world, sig checker, and inside world

20:35:00 deedbot-: [Qntra] MIT Sacrifices Rag in XTCoin Push - http://qntra.net/2015/09/mit-sacrifices-rag-in-xtcoin-push/

20:35:28 trinque: but perhaps yes, sig checker without dedicated sig-checking hardware is too slow?

20:35:29 ascii_field: trinque: sig checker ~must~ operate at line speed, and in practice this means it is integral to the die which actually throws the packets around.

20:35:30 mike_c: hm, v.py is leaking file descriptors all over the place. muy messy :)

20:35:57 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:36:32 jurov: yes that's what i had in mind. nothing stops anyone from producing arbitrary number of "almost signed" packets

20:36:42 ascii_field: almost pregnant.

20:37:02 trinque: *garbage arranged to look like a sig to a dumb parser

20:38:01 ascii_field: a valid packet is necessarily 1) rsa'd to the node's ephem-key 2) signed by originator's ephem-key

20:38:05 ascii_field: all else - insta-shitcan.

20:38:26 mike_c: ascii_field: what's the plan here? you want updates signed/posted on the mailing list? we going to use v to manage changes to v?

20:38:52 ascii_field: mike_c: i confess that my intent was to have folks rewrite it

20:39:07 ascii_field: mainly to demonstrate that everyone groks

20:39:48 ascii_field: and that there would exist several incarnations, which do not ever disagree on answers

20:40:02 mike_c: hmm.

20:40:05 ascii_field: just as modern pocket calculators generally agree on arithmetic.

20:40:16 *: ben_vulpes is struck by a lightningbolt of understanding

20:40:34 mike_c: whelp, the foundation might as well have an implementation

20:40:39 ascii_field: 'v' is far too necessary to remain a me-thing (much less a python-thing or pc-thing)

20:40:44 ascii_field: it has to EXIST

20:40:45 ben_vulpes: okay, i get it now stan.

20:40:48 ascii_field: the way calculator does.

20:41:11 mike_c: ben_vulpes: you want me to post a full tarball or diffs to mailing list?

20:41:17 trinque: every soldier may assemble his rifle

20:41:28 trinque: I dunno about the tactical sense in every soldier creating his own

20:41:43 trinque: network edge device same, so on

20:41:47 ben_vulpes: mike_c: i posted a tarball, as i did some messy surgery and expected brutal diffs. if you can get cleaner diffs, that'd be great.

20:42:01 *: trinque expects he has 5 years of semi-stable country at best

20:42:07 mike_c: ok. i'm working from your tarball. I'll see what the diffs end up looking like

20:42:39 ascii_field: my initial 'v' presses rel1 and the bleeding-edge rel2, yes, but it ought to be regarded as a proof-of-concept

20:42:47 ascii_field: rather than foundation for eternal thing

20:42:53 ben_vulpes: mike_c: asciilifeform objected to the "which method, which args" approach to routing around argparse's braindamage, so if you have good ideas down there throw 'em out

20:43:10 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: in principle i object to repetition in a proggy

20:43:16 ben_vulpes: (as in to #b-a)

20:43:24 ascii_field: as in, why the fuck do i have to change something in 3 separate places when adding a knob

20:43:32 ascii_field: ought to be ONE

20:43:36 ascii_field: (currently, notice, two)

20:43:46 ben_vulpes: because the way that argparse suggests you set up function calls is stupid as hell!

20:44:06 trinque: so make a lisp data structure and then derive your argparsing code from... oh wait

20:44:09 trinque: ehehe

20:44:11 ascii_field: i will borrow a page from mircea_popescu and say 'i don't give a fuck HOW' it is done

20:44:14 ben_vulpes: shaddup trinque

20:44:15 ascii_field: so long as it is not RETARDED

20:44:28 ben_vulpes: you're not wrong, i just hate the straightjacket of argparse's function call behavior.

20:44:49 ascii_field: i despise the whole language

20:44:59 ascii_field: but all the unix scripting langs are quite alike

20:46:32 mike_c: the two places being the argparse and the switch statement at the end?

20:46:48 ascii_field: mike_c: that's ben_vulpes's version, not mine

20:46:53 mike_c: got it

20:47:07 ascii_field: i am also counting the function itself

20:47:18 ascii_field: so he has 3 places.

20:50:15 mike_c: so many globals :) ok, I'll definitely take a swing at reorganizing a bit

20:50:52 mike_c: and it will be very nice to have a test suite while doing so. so thanks ben_vulpes.

20:51:47 ben_vulpes: mike_c: and that's after i burned out like 70% of them!

20:51:54 ascii_field: imho this is misguided.

20:52:06 ascii_field: this is not a proggy to be 'libraryized' and dijkstraized

20:52:06 mike_c: so don't do it in your implementation

20:52:32 ascii_field: aha, i didn't. specifically in the interest of keeping it short and destroying redundancy

20:52:55 mike_c: I love how small it is.

20:52:56 ben_vulpes: dijkstraized?

20:53:34 mike_c: of course, that is partially because of the hairball that is gnupg..

20:54:55 mike_c: why not make it libraryized? if gpg was libraryized shit like this wouldn't be so hard

20:55:32 punkman: ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me << what would this walker do?

20:56:33 mike_c: toposort a pile of patches with antescedants and descedants

20:56:40 punkman: we have that

20:56:57 ascii_field: punkman: handle broken and orphaned chains

20:57:22 ascii_field: to see what i mean, try adding a patch that depends on a rel1 terminus but is not built on by anything else.

20:57:36 ascii_field: it will destroy the entire thing

20:57:54 ascii_field: because 'press' assumes that ~all~ patches are part of longest chain somewhere.

21:00:30 ascii_field: the other much needed bit, imho,

21:00:41 ascii_field: is a graphatron that doesn't suck

21:00:52 ascii_field: which is to say, it needs to produce 1) ascii art, wit

21:00:55 ascii_field: h

21:01:07 ascii_field: 2) clickable boxes

21:01:22 ascii_field: (simple html)

21:01:45 ascii_field: these would expand to actual (colourized) diffs which the patch in question concerned.

21:03:27 ascii_field: the ONLY lib i found so far that does something like what is needed is a perl turd, http://bloodgate.com/perl/graph/manual/overview.html

21:03:29 assbot: Graph::Easy - Manual - Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1ixLqgQ )

21:03:32 ascii_field: i do not regard it as usable

21:03:43 ascii_field: but the basic principle is illustrated.

21:08:44 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field

21:16:55 trinque: ascii_field: just to wrap up the thought, this network device is simply (and exactly) a packet filter that accepts packets through one orifice, checks signatures (presumably has a slot somewhere in its head for pubkeys) and farts them inward via second orifice or drops on the floor

21:17:12 ascii_field: trinque: at its bare essence - yes.

21:17:18 ascii_field: hardware gossipd, if you like.

21:17:29 mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/3c1pry/all_of_the_nopes_there_is_no_such_thing_as_the/

21:17:30 assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )

21:17:30 mircea_popescu: aww.

21:17:54 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ka7ic/bitcoin_is_not_visa/ << it's on front page nao.

21:18:02 mircea_popescu: o hey.

21:18:04 ascii_field: trinque: the 'adult' version would also emit packets. but this is far less essential to 'hardwareize'

21:18:28 ascii_field: given as the overwhelming brunt of the load is on crud rejection

21:18:57 trinque: yep, makes sense

21:19:07 ascii_field: but no, it does not make any sense to consider any of this without si fab

21:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00073983 = 6.3625 BTC [-]

21:19:49 trinque: well I'll consider it, but for my education

21:20:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00073757 = 32.3793 BTC [-] {4}

21:21:46 trinque: I see two separate problems

21:21:58 trinque: parsing packets in/out according to some grammar

21:22:04 trinque: and then the sig checking

21:22:15 ascii_field: the sig check is what needs the custom si

21:22:20 mircea_popescu: https://s.zkcdn.net/Advertisers/a2d4e53fd3cf46ceb02ef9b7289225e6.jpg << kinda funny how the cheap catholic doodaad image of jesus from the 1915s is still kicking around

21:22:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYF5ue )

21:22:25 trinque: I can think of many applications on the net I'd like to demand only ever say things according to grammar G

21:22:34 ascii_field: trinque: that part is trivial.

21:22:41 trinque: is not, computer isn't trustworthy

21:22:46 ascii_field: but then again the whole thing is trivial.

21:22:59 ascii_field: but i do not have a fab. wake me up when you have one.

21:23:04 jurov: how was the tx issue resolved? aa956edc2dd94722b5794eaf4e987ebdc8189d2e4c6334c433d7514a28d6b3ab

21:23:13 mircea_popescu: or a dirigible. so much stuff hanging...

21:23:40 mircea_popescu: jurov foced mining.

21:23:50 jurov: alf gotta switch to "unfreeze me when..."

21:24:04 jurov: as in, you have a deal with miner?

21:24:13 ascii_field: 'resurrect me when'

21:24:39 mircea_popescu: suffice it to say, 4kb txn SHOULD NOT have any fucking problems.

21:24:49 ben_vulpes: 'can also have problems'

21:24:52 mircea_popescu: the relay network is gettng ever shittier.

21:25:09 ascii_field: jurov: it ended with me scouring several GB of packet dump for the tx and not finding it

21:25:18 ascii_field: despite mircea_popescu transmitting nonstop

21:25:28 ascii_field: directly to my node.

21:25:34 mircea_popescu: well. "directly"

21:25:37 ascii_field: aha.

21:25:39 ascii_field: 'directly.'

21:25:46 ascii_field: the only kind we presently have.

21:26:06 mircea_popescu: ascii_field at least i didn't need a si fab for it eh.

21:26:32 trinque: "If you wish to eat a nagant, you must first invent the universe."

21:26:32 *: mircea_popescu intends to mine 1mb txn at some point, just for the fu factor.

21:26:35 trinque: - Carl Sagan

21:28:17 mircea_popescu: (the summary of the txn for the curious : 4223 bytes, 250000 fee, 28 inputs of which 17 = 1 satoshi, 2 outputs. none of this should be controversial. fix your implementations of bitcoin relay)

21:29:22 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it never landed.

21:32:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267938 << apparently he never discovered porn.

21:32:16 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:47:25; punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period. << eh, geddoutofhere.

21:32:21 *: ben_vulpes expects slurptxn at some indefinite point

21:33:51 jurov: there's porn worth preserving?

21:33:58 ascii_field: ^

21:34:27 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:34:40 mircea_popescu: i have more than a coupla gb of porn i shot myself of my own women. and im keeping it.

21:34:44 mircea_popescu: so there goes that theory.

21:35:10 ascii_field: preserve, preserve.

21:35:29 mircea_popescu: also ftr, the size of the cd was set that way because a certain bigwig wanted to listen to a certain symphony without interruption.

21:35:38 mircea_popescu: there's easily plurious gb of music i also similarly want.

21:36:01 mircea_popescu: there's at least 1k movies that must be kept, and even at the modest 700mb a pop that's 700gb consequently.

21:36:03 mircea_popescu: etc

21:37:06 ascii_field: what would mircea_popescu hypothetically ~personally~ pay per byte to preserve them ?

21:37:20 ascii_field: in the sense of where they would otherwise disappear.

21:37:20 mircea_popescu: an ounce of usian blood, for starters.

21:37:31 ascii_field: easy to pay with someone else's !

21:37:34 mircea_popescu: exactly.

21:38:10 mircea_popescu: the first and foremost function of government : pointing at whose blood must pay for which bytes.

21:38:22 ascii_field: how else.

21:38:58 mircea_popescu: assbot approves.

21:39:01 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

21:39:38 *: ascii_field was distracted by fist-sized butterfly trying to get through window glass. a very rare sight in this part of the world.

21:40:00 mircea_popescu: butterfly landed on my icecream once.

21:40:18 mircea_popescu: i srsly think it wanted a taste.

21:40:24 thestringpuller: moar comedy gold from #bitcoinxt:

21:40:24 thestringpuller: 16:55 < Aquentin> if we're ever so lucky as to make use of 8gb blocks

21:40:24 thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> you'd think miners would love all these new potential users...

21:40:28 thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> instead they want price fixing lol - how dum

21:40:46 mircea_popescu: potential users can go grab the mains

21:40:54 mircea_popescu: help reduce carbon footprint with their potential.

21:41:08 ascii_field: 'whaddayamean the butcher wants to sell the meat, think how many flies he could get'

21:41:14 mircea_popescu: the mark of true potential is when the grid doesn't shake you, but you shake it.

21:42:00 mircea_popescu: this is what mit does, incidentally. "potential engineers". so are you engineers ? no, but we could be.

21:42:02 cazalla: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3jgsqs/a_reminder_that_this_guy_is_a_fine_citizen_and/

21:42:03 assbot: A reminder that this guy is a fine citizen and staunch defender of small-blockistan. : bitcoinxt ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYJeOP )

21:42:07 mircea_popescu: my horse also, could be.

21:42:47 mircea_popescu: staunch defender ? and here i thought i fucking started the whole thing.

21:42:54 mircea_popescu: must read reddit more, they know from history.

21:43:43 mircea_popescu: "We saw this kind of thing a quarter-century ago, when debates raged over whether commercial activity should be tolerated on the Internet. To those, for whom the World Wide Web and WiFi have always existed, such a question might seem unthinkably naive, but back then the idea of Suits playing in Propellerheads' sandbox was the stuff of epic flame wars."

21:43:44 mircea_popescu: herp.

21:43:55 mircea_popescu: the difference between now and then is you didn'tr have a nigger president, derps.

21:44:37 mircea_popescu: "Anyone who has arrived early at a general admission event will recognize the feeling. You lay out your blanket, thus marking off a small piece of territory for yourself. The other early arrivals do the same. After a while, you start to feel as though that patch of land is yours by right.

21:44:37 mircea_popescu: With time, new arrivals stand around you, generally trying not to step onto your blanket. As the beginning of the event approaches, you find yourself staring into the rather private areas of those who arrived after you, and might even feel a bit of resentment at their impertinence.

21:44:37 mircea_popescu: Eventually, it is utterly hopeless. You stand and try not to lose any of your possessions as the crowd crushes in around you."

21:44:43 mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha. jesus it must suck to live in the us.

21:44:50 mircea_popescu: anyway. bitcoin is not a "general admission event".

21:46:08 cazalla: i always find these threads amusing tbh

21:46:24 cazalla: utter waste of time, but amusing

21:47:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267975 "energy". it's getting to where the use of a term without actual equations in the text is a macula of idiocy.

21:47:13 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:29:24; funkenstein_: -- celestine prophecy

21:48:28 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of my secret pleasures is to track historical patterns of linguistic theft by pseudoscience from the genuine article

21:48:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267982 << from what i gather it's "antiquated" and "only used in jest" the same sig heil is.

21:48:41 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:33:50; funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267185 <-- I'm told the phrase is antiquated and mostly used in jest today. Perhaps interesting that the translation of "revolution" is more akin to "molting" than "spinning".

21:48:58 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this is not even pseudoscience. direct equivalent to "respeto"

21:49:12 mircea_popescu: it probably was "gratia" 1k years ago.

21:49:18 ascii_field: aha

21:49:22 ascii_field: but today it is 'energy'

21:49:27 ascii_field: and it is no particular mystery why

21:49:38 mircea_popescu: because science was cool 50 years ago ?

21:50:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00074659 = 20.6059 BTC [+] {3}

21:50:33 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha. jesus it must suck to live in the us. << we usians are pretty much living in idiocracy. soon we'll see mass famine due to watering crops with electrolytes.

21:50:49 mircea_popescu: i don't think the mexicans will allow that.

21:50:53 mircea_popescu: blessfully.

21:51:02 thestringpuller: one can only hope.

21:51:34 mircea_popescu: [Mirrored from: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/philg/research/shame-and-war.html ]

21:51:43 mircea_popescu: check it out, mit is making potential potentials!

21:51:44 ascii_field: dead

21:52:58 mircea_popescu: so what is the point of mit ?

21:53:09 mircea_popescu: someone please explains. "mit exists so that...". fill in.

21:53:13 ascii_field: who said there was a point ?

21:53:18 mircea_popescu: can't even fucking keep an article made by its own employees.

21:53:19 ascii_field: it is ~there~, like washington

21:53:33 mircea_popescu: and then funkenstein wants to talk about "the library of alexandria". because branding.

21:53:47 mircea_popescu: how many libraries of alexandria has each derpy us university destroyed each year since 1965 ?

21:53:55 mircea_popescu: oh, there isn't a word for that so it isn't a thing ? or what ?

21:53:57 ascii_field: everything about mit worth preserving even theoretically costs about 100 usd and is on my bookshelf.

21:54:05 ascii_field: everything else - straight to the fermenter vats.

21:54:06 mircea_popescu: ascii_field besides the point.

21:55:27 mircea_popescu: (and since we're doing historical recovery here : the "shame and war" quote comes from churchill, but specifically - it was in a letter to walter guiness. who was assassinated in 1944. by lehi, which was a sort of jdf of the time)

21:55:38 ascii_field: of course churchill

21:55:39 ascii_field: who else

21:55:51 *: ascii_field thought this was well-known in english world

21:56:31 ascii_field: re: mit, obligatory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=531294

21:56:32 assbot: It it just me who is seeing a cowardly surrender to cultural decay here? From th... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYMrxJ )

21:59:35 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvJcPToXb0 sc13nc3!!!

21:59:36 assbot: Что будет если в Колу добавить ПРОПАН ? Coca Cola + propane = Mega ROCKET - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1hYNaPw )

22:00:42 *: BingoBoingo pulled the trigger and ordered the TI-92

22:01:04 ascii_field: happy mc68k-ing BingoBoingo

22:01:07 jurov: BingoBoingo: will you fellate it?

22:01:29 BingoBoingo: jurov: Unfortunately my jaw does not unhinge like a python so unlikely

22:01:32 ascii_field: should've gotten the 89 if that were the plan

22:01:36 ascii_field: 92 is a bit wide

22:01:49 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Thank you for pointing out that market opportunity.

22:02:13 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: you could probably get'em even cheaper if you figured out where they are and why

22:02:39 ascii_field: but unless you need 1,001 of them - no reason to

22:02:41 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: I saw some lots for sale at a far sheaper per unit price. I may have to investigate

22:03:45 mircea_popescu: "What creativity can there be when your medium is shit mixed with sawdust?"

22:03:45 mircea_popescu: The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic.

22:03:51 mircea_popescu: omfg ycombinator is worse than reddit

22:04:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i wrote this

22:04:01 mircea_popescu: they should just buy it and run it togeoops nevermind.

22:04:17 ascii_field: and i still insist, shit is not paint

22:04:19 mircea_popescu: you wrote the quote, im discussing the response.

22:04:24 ascii_field: ah

22:04:25 ascii_field: lol

22:04:49 mircea_popescu: "The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic. It's a different mindset. I see the reddit-gen programmers talk about things on a completely meta-level. To them, MySql is the hardware. Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily. Some of them hopefully will dig down the stack and be the low-level heroes. But that should (and probably can) only be a small percentage.

22:04:49 mircea_popescu: Now I guess one could argue that those sorts of heroes are what MIT is supposed to produce, but as has been mentioned, this course is not just for CS students. So the real question is, can the CS heroes of tomorrow survive an introductory course in Python? Well, consider that they have probably been modding games since 10, hacking PhP at 12, realizing at 14 they need to learn a 'real' language (C#, Ruby, Python), by 15

22:04:50 mircea_popescu: I bet they've abstracted out the fact that languages are not all that important; they're just the tip of the iceberg of complexity.

22:04:53 mircea_popescu: So yes, I think they will survive."

22:05:12 mircea_popescu: "we have no answers and are too fat and lazy to move, so let's just agree they will be supplied for free from the ethers as we need them"

22:05:23 ascii_field: lol did i even dignify that with an answer ?!

22:06:27 mircea_popescu: anyway, lol at cute young alf trying so hard.

22:06:32 mircea_popescu: yes lol, and it's funny.

22:07:05 mircea_popescu: (btw, the lehi/jdf thing above ? nazi ally, originally. yes, that's right.)

22:07:12 ascii_field: aha

22:07:18 mircea_popescu: nazis lesser enemies than britain.

22:07:18 trinque: "sql is the hardware" << ow, right in the youth.

22:08:50 mircea_popescu: (they also blew up bernadotte. who, amusingly, is very much the character schindler's list is based on, except not named.

22:08:52 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 'hagana' et al set the gold standard for blowing up brits, aha

22:09:13 mircea_popescu: because rather than paying dues where they are due, how about we just steal their history and pretend it's this guy's instead. he's cheaper)

22:10:30 thestringpuller: !up ascii_field

22:11:18 thestringpuller: trinque: this is how CS students are taught tho sadly. Oracle doesn't with this either.

22:11:32 thestringpuller: oracle doesn't help with this*

22:13:32 thestringpuller: the spam has begun!

22:14:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268026 << to no-one's surprise.

22:14:16 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 14:08:50; shinohai: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/downtown-austin-vault-of-precious-metals-turns-up-/nnYS2/#st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/2X7WjLwJ7M

22:16:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268048 << that much, yes.

22:16:36 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 14:21:26; asciilifeform: the conflation of 'owning gold' and 'using xyz vault' is also reminiscent of the mtgox mediatronic idiocies

22:19:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268077 << nature. for the same reason smart people have idiot kids, idiots usually have smart[er] offspring.

22:19:23 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 15:11:20; shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?

22:20:50 *: shinohai was flabbergasted these ppl are so upset over such a trivial thing.

22:21:01 jurov: ;;isup blockchain.com

22:21:02 gribble: blockchain.com is up

22:21:49 jurov: it says maxed requests

22:22:08 jurov: first spam victim, as usual :)

22:22:21 ascii_field: l0l, qntra linked from bci !

22:22:59 kakobrekla: where?

22:23:08 ascii_field: kakobrekla: the streamer box

22:23:21 ascii_field: titled 'Turns out the current crisis was predicted back in early 2013. Goess by whom.'

22:23:38 ascii_field: which is a reddit page, which is a link to qntra

22:23:39 kakobrekla: ah. sez reddit.

22:23:59 mircea_popescu: "Is it saved in RAM anywhere or perhaps in the java?" << ironically it prolly is lol

22:24:06 kakobrekla: weird, that 'news box' is usually full of _OLD_ spam

22:24:39 mircea_popescu: yeah blockchain's aobut as useful as a suntime umbrella.

22:25:48 kakobrekla: Invest BTC in peer-to-peer loans and get 19% APR with BTCJam.com

22:25:49 kakobrekla: BTCJam < 1 minute ago

22:25:56 kakobrekla: this has been on it for months

22:26:26 kakobrekla: or maybe they lower the apr and make it news

22:26:30 kakobrekla: dunno.

22:32:48 shinohai: Now the dogecoin derps are experts in what bitcoin should be doing: http://digiconomist.net/interview-ross-nicoll

22:32:48 assbot: Bitcoin Needs To Stop Talking & Start Doing - Digiconomist ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYVTqx )

22:34:10 trinque: "huge lack" << stops reading

22:34:36 trinque: signs of a miswired brain

22:47:35 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

22:50:34 BingoBoingo: TLDR; Most of Autism is caused by shitty parents http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/09/is_autism_permanent_some_children_diagnosed_with_autism_seem_to_grow_out.html

22:50:35 assbot: Is autism permanent? Some children diagnosed with autism seem to grow out of the core symptoms. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYWHvJ )

22:54:23 trinque: BingoBoingo: "My son screams when anyone touches his toys." ... "So, kick his ass when he does that?"

22:54:51 trinque: would not surprise me at all that a lot of this is normal misbehavior left festering like an untreated wound

22:55:09 shinohai: Maybe their nest monitor went down and the kids got autism when they weren't being watched.

22:55:15 BingoBoingo: trinque: Basically that and "My kid was autistic but got better when socialized 40 hours a week with people who give a fuck."

22:55:33 trinque: no app for that

23:03:21 BingoBoingo: TrueFax: Apps cause Autism

23:03:22 cazalla: an anecdote, but parents want to label their kids autistic as adhd has been done to death

23:05:18 cazalla: because, you know, earning the label requires taking your kid to the gp, to a specialist, to an expert, a support group, filling out paperwork for gov autism assistance bezzlars.. wow look at all this attention my kid is getting, must be special and therefore, so am i as a parent, please Like and subscribe

23:05:38 mircea_popescu: shinohai heh

23:05:54 shinohai: ?

23:06:14 mircea_popescu: "the dogecoin derps are experts in what bitcoin should be doing"

23:06:39 mircea_popescu: "we're very butthurt at how bitcoin excluded us. it should not do that. we're important. and the place we left to failed."

23:06:57 cazalla: Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: "Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious" << about 1/4 of all retarded housewife profiles.

23:07:50 mircea_popescu: "i'm 30 and my life is over now because i can't be arsed to learn any skills"

23:07:53 mircea_popescu: !up rektimus

23:10:26 shinohai: Ah yes. And naturally they must prove their superiority by some means.

23:12:03 shinohai: I have a never-ending supply of butthurt-bandaids. ( ::: [ ] ::: )

23:12:22 mircea_popescu: should be ( ::: [x] ::: )

23:12:55 mircea_popescu: if you liked the above bandaid please like and subscribe to the thread!

23:14:01 shinohai: lol

23:14:14 shinohai: have an upvote ^

23:15:29 BingoBoingo: I thought for true butthurt you needed [=========]~~~~~~ tampons instead to apply pressure to the bleeding. WTF is a bandaid going to do?

23:15:59 BingoBoingo: Wait, is that a tampon or a pipe bomb

23:18:43 shinohai: looks like jizz escaping a fleshlight to me

23:22:00 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2896 << From Baltimore

23:22:02 assbot: JL: Labor Day in Harm City ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUZ8kA )

23:29:53 mircea_popescu: !up Londe

23:30:46 mircea_popescu: "We are all now well aware that the authorities will do absolutely nothing to protect citizens or businesses and will dedicated %100 of their resources to protecting the police and government personnel and facilities."

23:30:47 mircea_popescu: doh.

23:31:19 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnfbhdELQLA

23:31:20 assbot: Seinfeld clip George fire - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JV0Q5H )

23:33:25 mircea_popescu: meh wrong clip.

23:33:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00073709 = 23.7343 BTC [-] {3}

23:33:55 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuP9YClyPRY

23:33:56 assbot: The Best of George Costanza - The Fire - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JV1m3A )

23:34:41 mircea_popescu: GEORGE (voice is hoarse from screaming): I...was trying to lead the way. We needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety.

23:34:41 mircea_popescu: ROBIN: But you yelled "get out of my way"!

23:34:41 mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Because! Because, as the leader...if I die...then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating me, you should all be thanking me. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?

23:34:41 mircea_popescu: ROBIN: But I saw you push the women and children out of the way in a mad panic! I saw you knock them down! And when you ran out, you left everyone behind!

23:34:44 mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Seemingly. Seemingly, to the untrained eye, I can fully understand how you got that impression. What looked like pushing...what looked like knocking down...was a safety precaution! In a fire, you stay close to the ground, am I right? And when I ran out that door, I was not leaving anyone behind! Oh, quite the contrary! I risked my life making sure that exit was clear. Any other questions?

23:34:49 mircea_popescu: FIREMAN: How do you live with yourself?

23:34:51 mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Its not easy.

23:37:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45150 @ 0.0007411 = 33.4607 BTC [+] {5}

23:42:27 *: shinohai didn't know mircea_popescu enjoyed Seinfeld .

23:43:33 mircea_popescu: it's about 90% of all us tv i watched, by volume.

23:44:01 shinohai: Probably the only show I ever bothered to actually purchase.

23:44:06 mircea_popescu: "On the eve of what may likely be another effort by the white liberal media to fan the flames of race war in Baltimore, I?m not seeing as much flammable human material as the media priesthood would have us believe. Surely there will be enough entitled racist foot soldiers to set another 154 fires at least, to empty another four dozen pharmacies and liquor stores, terrorizing more of their fellow blacks than anyone.

23:44:06 mircea_popescu: What I do not see are locals ready to engage in such activity."

23:44:15 mircea_popescu: lol poor lafond, he could be in rhodesia and not know the difference.

23:44:38 mircea_popescu: no locals engaging ? of course no locals. don't worry abut it, usg will ship foreign armed thugs across the border for as long as it takes you to kill it.

23:45:04 BingoBoingo: How quickly He turned from potential interesting read to anthropological case study.

23:45:48 mircea_popescu: guy's a boxer. what do you want from him. either he gets a master or flails around helplessly, not like he's going to you know, concentrate really hard and attain enlightment.

23:46:13 mircea_popescu: but anyways. he does get the point about how there's no thieves and police, but unsanctioned criminals and sanctioned criminals.

23:49:09 BingoBoingo: Yeah. One of the few tolerable US reads. One of the very few east coast ones.

23:50:44 mircea_popescu: "My commitment to the American people is both simple and straightforward: I will cook any and every number that needs to be cooked. We?ll see continued job growth, probably an unemployment rate under 2 percent. You also have my word that I?ll keep the LFPR above 66 percent. With a little help from my friends, we can probably run a surplus within a year or so, and pay down all our debt over the next decade or so. No

23:50:45 mircea_popescu: thing we can?t do with a little moxie and an Excel spreadsheet or two. (Jeb! ? that 4% growth rate you?re pining for? Call me.)

23:50:45 mircea_popescu: Let?s get serious here ? if you think the government is cooking all manner of economic releases, you need to explain the LFPR."

23:50:50 mircea_popescu: lmao check out ritholtz.

23:51:02 mircea_popescu: "we are lying through our teeth and if yo usay this you gotta explain our crankbait"

23:51:12 mircea_popescu: derp. you don't control the narrative. i control the narrative. get fucked.

23:54:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00074816 = 15.861 BTC [+]

23:54:42 shinohai: Heh: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNhFJjGcMPqpuYfxL62VVB9528NXqDNMFXiqN5bgFYiZ1/its-time-for-the-permanent-web.html

23:54:43 assbot: HTTP is obsolete. It's time for the distributed, permanent web ... ( http://bit.ly/1L30w9d )

23:55:29 asciilifeform: l0l embrace & extinguish of xanadu !

23:55:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re blackholing : did you also get a lot of socket error 113s ?

23:55:57 asciilifeform: no route to host ?

23:55:59 asciilifeform: plenty

23:56:58 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:57:23 mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to be much pattern to it tho.

23:57:30 asciilifeform: lemme guess, mircea_popescu's node drifting in space

23:57:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268123 << pretty much goes without saying, how else ?

23:57:35 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:05:30; jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block

23:57:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, not yet. still doing ~600 blocks/hr

23:57:50 asciilifeform: neato

23:57:55 mircea_popescu: tho maybe on the more 500 side of 600.

23:59:11 shinohai: I am getting some socket recv error 110

23:59:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1268184 <<< this because you never looked at it seriously ?

23:59:51 assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:44:48; punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away