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Transcript for 09-11-2014, 930 lines:

00:01:13 Adlai: mircea_popescu: "is to pay" is a stronger statement than "if you pay, ..."

00:01:26 mircea_popescu: besides you know, they prolly go in different bundles, and in general, it's not the signature that's subordinate to the document, but the other way around

00:01:36 mircea_popescu: Adlai exactly.

00:04:43 punkman: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/world_passport/

00:04:43 assbot: Hacker Dreams Up Crypto Passport Using the Tech Behind Bitcoin | WIRED

00:05:57 *: asciilifeform groans

00:05:58 mircea_popescu: punkman https://blockchain.info/address/1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny << seem you got the url, and also check it out, regularly spent!

00:05:58 assbot: Bitcoin Address 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny

00:06:31 punkman: mircea_popescu: oh good

00:06:45 joecool: oh cool it hooks into blockchain.info now, very nice

00:07:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916

00:07:15 assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.

00:07:27 punkman: the bundle txs are unspent, if that's what you meant

00:07:30 asciilifeform: (re: the idiot 'passport' thing)

00:07:36 mircea_popescu: punkman no, they're spent up to about yest ?

00:07:39 mircea_popescu: so someone's on it.

00:07:59 punkman: no that's the balance being spent for each next bundle

00:08:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don;'t think the wired story has anything to do with anything. for one thing... they EXPIRE ?!?!?!

00:08:38 punkman: punkbot balance

00:08:38 punkbot: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01372 BTC (0.05 unconfirmed), enough for 124 more bundles.

00:08:39 Adlai: well, people expire...

00:08:42 mircea_popescu: punkman 14r4VdZFYJnGG52B6w9Th7oKjGXU1pDzKX is spent say

00:08:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from my first impression, it looked like some savage found a piece of our microscope left in the jungle

00:09:08 mircea_popescu: nah, not even that advance.d

00:09:34 punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah just noticed, that's good

00:09:44 punkman: faucet incentivizes verification

00:10:20 asciilifeform: check out the shitgnomes in the comments. 'use keybase!'

00:10:49 mircea_popescu: punkman yuppers.

00:10:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform disqus is disabled here. no comments.

00:12:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not missing much

00:15:18 punkman: I'm guessing nubbins` will be printing the first batch of La Serenissima passports ;)

00:16:52 mircea_popescu: but i mean the passport comes as a temp freenode:#bitcoin-otc:blabla string

00:17:19 punkman: well maybe novelty item then

00:17:23 asciilifeform: 'passport', if you must, is pubkey

00:17:29 asciilifeform: the rest, is merely proving that you have it.

00:18:59 mircea_popescu: well wait. identity is pubkey. the rest is the passport.

00:19:02 mircea_popescu: ie, proving you have it.

00:19:15 asciilifeform: aha

00:19:21 asciilifeform: that's a better formulation.

00:19:32 punkman: and signature of the kingdom>

00:21:32 punkman: btw http://www.icao.int/security/mrtd/pages/ICAOPKD.aspx

00:21:34 assbot: ICAO Public Key Directory (PKD)

00:22:02 asciilifeform: ^ work of satan

00:22:56 mircea_popescu: y ?

00:23:02 asciilifeform: pki

00:23:06 asciilifeform: and guess who has master key.

00:24:02 mircea_popescu: but i mean ... they just reused the https crapolade.

00:24:06 asciilifeform: aha.

00:24:16 mircea_popescu: it's not work of satan, it;'s work of whoever was the demon of sloth

00:24:46 asciilifeform: god of shit. sterculius.

00:25:38 asciilifeform: or... 'Hie thee to hell for shame, and leave the world, Thou cacodemon! There thy kingdom is.' (richard iii)

00:25:53 asciilifeform: (cacodemon, as seen in 'doom'.)

00:27:43 Adlai: passports as private key... remind me of some gag where a bitcoiner gets some "paper wallets" for his fiat account and discovers that his keys are printed in cleartext on every page

00:28:14 mircea_popescu: you mean like bank account numbers ?

00:28:18 Adlai: https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/239wv9/so_i_went_to_open_a_checking_account_todayhow/

00:28:19 assbot: So I went to open a checking account today...How these banks have stayed in business this long is beyond reason. : Bitcoin

00:28:49 mircea_popescu: fun story : romania's dictators had nfi that they will be shot. because srsly, who would shoot obama, and why ?!?!?!

00:28:58 mircea_popescu: eventually, as things got out of control they ran off in a helicopter

00:29:17 mircea_popescu: the woman, being also a mother, took some money with her for her children.

00:29:35 mircea_popescu: these consisted of accounts drawn against the national (and only) bank

00:29:39 mircea_popescu: and the passwords were their names.

00:30:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is in no way surprising.

00:30:31 mircea_popescu: one of those things only ever surprising in retrospect.

00:31:25 mircea_popescu: punkbot balance

00:31:25 punkbot: mircea_popescu: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.06372 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 579 more bundles.

00:31:30 asciilifeform: who would have dared to monkey with the tyrant's bank account when he was on the throne.

00:31:53 asciilifeform: and who gave half a rat's arse after.

00:32:01 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, another fun story :

00:32:22 mircea_popescu: romanian defence minister got sent to russia on business, including to buy some fighter jets.

00:33:02 mircea_popescu: dictator-wife goes through dictator paperwork, wtf, why do "we" need planes.

00:33:08 mircea_popescu: guy decides not to buy planes anymoar.

00:33:19 mircea_popescu: aparatus desperately calls to moscow, pls to not sign anymore

00:33:19 asciilifeform: elena the 'chemist' ?

00:33:23 mircea_popescu: "too late". yes, her.

00:33:27 asciilifeform: l0l!

00:33:36 asciilifeform: al schwartz had many good elene c. stories

00:33:36 mircea_popescu: so it is decided that... fancy this... they'll simply not pay.

00:33:41 mircea_popescu: ie, ignor the matter altogether.

00:33:43 asciilifeform: the faux 'chemistry' really grated on him

00:34:04 mircea_popescu: at which point ppl are like wtf, this is some sort of a kindergarten act ?! who ever heard of this

00:34:07 mircea_popescu: (summer of 1989)

00:36:08 mircea_popescu: ftr, grep -v -f is atrociously ineffectual for large files.

00:36:18 mircea_popescu: is this for a good reason or just bad gnutella ?

00:36:54 asciilifeform: aside from the fundamentally bigger set ?

00:38:02 mircea_popescu: shouldn't grep -v -f (x rand(x)) y rand(y) be a function of x*y ?

00:38:16 mircea_popescu: this looks more like it's x^y or some shit.

00:38:48 Adlai: exceeding various cache sizes?

00:39:06 mircea_popescu: shouldn't it just tree the f ?

00:41:56 Adlai: pure speculation: it caches the list of -f patterns, then goes over the input lines, testing all patterns on each line. this would have a sharp performance drop as the patterns overflow caches.

00:42:18 asciilifeform: the fact that no one here is willing to answer this question by attempting to read the source, says something about the latter.

00:42:54 *: Adlai is busy worshipping sterculius

00:42:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform have you LOOKED at grep source ?

00:43:01 asciilifeform: yes.

00:43:14 mircea_popescu: im not paying for a week of graybeard to go into its guts tyvm.

00:43:19 *: asciilifeform said this for a reason.

00:46:46 mircea_popescu: anyway, stercum means shit. sterculius sounds like the god of diarrhea

00:47:03 asciilifeform: ;;google sterculius

00:47:04 gribble: Sterquilinus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterquilinus; STERCULIUS - the Roman God of Manure (Roman mythology): http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/roman-mythology.php?deity=STERCULIUS; Urban Dictionary: Sterculius: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sterculius

00:47:16 *: asciilifeform forgets where and how

00:48:11 Adlai: indeed, i'd like to deal with at most one turd at a time

01:21:15 punkman: here's a thought: .sign AQLSTVsF http://paste.com/detached_sig.txt

01:22:11 punkman: it just goes in as a regular deed, but punkbot knows how to verify sig

01:22:40 punkman: (where AQLSTVsF, any deed id)

01:24:34 punkman: and btw, you can even post binary data as deed with :gpg --sign --armor

01:24:54 punkman: could allow larger limit for teh lords

01:25:11 punkman: (32kb currently)

01:37:32 jurov: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/crypto-ipos/

01:37:32 assbot: Feds Begin Their Crackdown on Bitcoin Stocks | WIRED

01:38:06 asciilifeform: '...a crackdown that could affect promising Bitcoin 2.0 projects such as Ethereum, MaidSafe, and Counterparty.'

01:38:08 *: asciilifeform groans

01:38:27 asciilifeform: and the verbiage is straight from last week's turds

01:39:59 punkman: "Keirns was doing what came naturally. He had a business idea, and he created a fund."

01:42:17 mircea_popescu: punkman so basically what, it verifies an alt-sig for the body of a prev deed ?

01:42:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, because the scams hadn't already been cracked down upon a year ago, right here.

01:42:49 mircea_popescu: the insanity is strong with these guys.

01:43:02 punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah, I'd sign your raw deed, then send detached sig to bot

01:43:16 mircea_popescu: so how does it publish it ?

01:43:20 mircea_popescu: and where does it put it ?

01:43:39 asciilifeform: (yes, said it before, but) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916

01:43:39 assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.

01:43:40 punkman: the detached sig becomes the body of a new deed, included in bundles as usual

01:44:00 asciilifeform: not 'insanity' as such, just very arduously pretending that we don't exist.

01:44:09 mircea_popescu: ;;rate wired -1 such horribru coverage from the it kindergarten fishwrapper.

01:44:10 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user wired has been recorded.

01:44:16 mircea_popescu: ow shit.

01:44:19 asciilifeform: l0l!

01:44:38 mircea_popescu: ;;unrate

01:44:38 gribble: (unrate <nick>) -- Remove your rating for <nick> from the database.

01:44:52 mircea_popescu: jesus the wot is packed so thight you can't even throw a rock at the swamp without hitting someone

01:44:54 mircea_popescu: ;;unrate wired

01:44:55 gribble: Successfully removed your rating for wired.

01:46:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, "we're ~cracking down~ dontcha know, notwithstanding that we have no authority. this activity without effect could nevertheless which could affect scams we sponsored to try and destroy this thing but it didn't work out".

01:46:44 mircea_popescu: such false->anything->anything->anything genius.

01:48:06 mircea_popescu: punkman so how would a 3rd party verify the contentless signature is anything ?

01:49:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00058756 = 11.5749 BTC [+]

01:51:12 punkman: mircea_popescu: I guess referenced deed id is included along with detached sig

01:51:22 mircea_popescu: so then what was the benefit ?

01:51:29 mircea_popescu: srsly, it's good as it is, no need fixing.

01:51:55 mircea_popescu: the fact that thew system offers a strong guarantee that any deed can be verified in 1 step is valuable.

01:51:59 mircea_popescu: that value needn't be squandered.

02:00:43 mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately, earnings reported in corporate financial statements are no longer the dominant variable that determines whether there are any real earnings for you, the owner. For only gains in purchasing power represent real earnings on investment. If you (a) forego ten hamburgers to purchase an investment; (b) receive dividends which, after tax, buy two hamburgers; and (c) receive, upon sale of your holdings, aft

02:00:43 mircea_popescu: er-tax proceeds that will buy eight hamburgers, then (d) you have had no real income from your investment, no matter how much it appreciated in dollars. You may feel richer, but you won?t eat richer."

02:00:49 mircea_popescu: guess who.

02:08:10 decimation: taleb? you?

02:08:25 mircea_popescu: actually, buffett.

02:08:27 mircea_popescu: but in 1980.

02:10:48 decimation: heh. I wonder if he used this as a defense of his anti-dividend policy

02:12:54 decimation: lol http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/07/codecademy-reskillusa/ << recycle jobless 'workers' to skilled web developers in three months, please please usg you pay?

02:12:55 assbot: Codecademy Teams Up With Online And Offline Coding Schools To Create ReskillUSA | TechCrunch

02:14:02 mircea_popescu: well... promising 2.0 businesses such as ethereum could use more css...

02:14:11 decimation: lol

02:32:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00057487 = 7.1284 BTC [-]

03:03:51 pete_dushenski: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/b83yTQaz

03:03:51 assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com

03:03:51 punkbot: pete_dushenski: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

03:15:07 Adlai: !s urbit

03:15:08 assbot: 117 results for 'urbit' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=urbit

03:15:47 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN

03:18:56 decimation: have you used urbit Adlai?

03:19:08 Adlai: nope, just encountering this now

03:27:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00056483 = 9.6976 BTC [-]

03:39:15 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17J6NAKN9aiFNcdesz417hXZqtixLk6wpw | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN

03:56:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00056101 = 11.1641 BTC [-]

04:09:15 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/09/la-serenissima-sovereign-declares-tithe-3/

04:09:16 assbot: La Serenissima: Sovereign, Declares Tithe³ | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski

04:14:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16371 @ 0.00056331 = 9.2219 BTC [+]

04:19:57 RagnarDanneskjol: i like the declaration but fuck the tax bs for gots sake man. I refuse to sign it! not cool pete

04:29:00 cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, i don't think anyone said you had to sign it

04:29:23 RagnarDanneskjol: i didnt say they did. just passing an opinion

04:31:37 RagnarDanneskjol: in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable

04:33:34 asciilifeform: RagnarDanneskjol: ask mircea_popescu

04:33:39 asciilifeform: he wrote it.

04:34:13 RagnarDanneskjol: ahh ok, I'll take it up with the boss then - thought it originated w/ pete. thanks

04:34:31 asciilifeform: as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader.

04:35:05 asciilifeform: none of the folks here seem to have the magic combo of skill, inclination, and free time

04:35:15 RagnarDanneskjol: i get it. there is quite a bit of volunteer support about to flood this channel for this purpose

04:35:27 RagnarDanneskjol: qualified support

04:35:39 asciilifeform: about to?

04:35:43 asciilifeform: what are they waiting for?

04:35:47 decimation: to sign a deed?

04:35:47 RagnarDanneskjol: me

04:36:17 RagnarDanneskjol: I need to round up the troops and do some crash coursing in wot, etc first

04:37:00 asciilifeform: if the troops are able and willing to follow jurov's turdatron rules (as well as produce quality work) - great news.

04:37:27 RagnarDanneskjol: we'll see. making no promises

04:37:47 asciilifeform: but unless i am mistaken, mircea_popescu is proceeding from an understanding that a quality reference implementation will require paid experts.

04:37:58 asciilifeform: hence his proclamation of 'tithe'

04:38:03 RagnarDanneskjol: might be that too

04:38:16 RagnarDanneskjol: got it. tithe I can live with. tax not so much

04:38:22 RagnarDanneskjol: can you pls direct me to jurov's requirements?

04:38:32 RagnarDanneskjol: or the rules of contention

04:38:37 asciilifeform: RagnarDanneskjol: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev

04:38:46 RagnarDanneskjol: oh that ok

04:38:47 asciilifeform: described in 'submitting patches'

04:38:56 RagnarDanneskjol: right got it

04:39:13 asciilifeform: the only thing not mentioned there, is the absolute need for patches to be readable

04:39:25 RagnarDanneskjol: i see

04:39:46 asciilifeform: that is, it must address a specific thing, and patch is not really considered worthwhile until other participants are willing to sign it.

04:40:08 RagnarDanneskjol: should be interesting

04:40:34 asciilifeform: (which others must sign? this question has not been formally answered yet. on account of there not being a real maintainer.)

04:40:46 asciilifeform: i did the last merge personally, and i think a few folks here are using it

04:40:56 asciilifeform: but i'm not an 'official' anything.

04:41:28 asciilifeform: (other than being the devil who led these folks into the temptation of trying to craft a 'reference implementation.')

04:41:41 RagnarDanneskjol: heh

04:41:56 asciilifeform: i also wrote a few of the simple patches found on jurov's site right now

04:42:15 RagnarDanneskjol: cool

04:42:26 asciilifeform: entirely crud removal (of, e.g., gavin's 'emergency broadcast' crap)

04:43:02 decimation: asciilifeform: I did mange to get it working on openbsd, I think it wedged in a different spot

04:43:16 asciilifeform: decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet.

04:43:21 decimation: I had to add a few headers

04:43:26 asciilifeform: decimation: because non-deterministic - once db is corrupt, wedge.

04:43:29 decimation: yeah I was using the 'ports' db, which is 4.6 I think

04:43:30 asciilifeform: when corrups? no one knows

04:51:41 RagnarDanneskjol: speaking of support, how you been chalbersma - LA treating you ok

04:52:07 chalbersma: Ya been super busy. But it's nice out hear.

04:52:20 chalbersma: What seems to be the support problem you speak of?

04:53:33 RagnarDanneskjol: well, the folks here started a movement to roll back btc core development to a pristine, decrufted state

04:53:57 RagnarDanneskjol: and looking for guys like you with some hands on experience to contribute

04:54:06 chalbersma: Hmm sounds interesting.

04:54:14 RagnarDanneskjol: yea, should be fun

04:54:34 RagnarDanneskjol: getting some links to bring you up to speed

04:54:40 chalbersma: kk

04:56:10 RagnarDanneskjol: http://trilema.com/2014/the-bitcoin-foundation-finally-incorporated/

04:56:10 assbot: The Bitcoin Foundation finally incorporated! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

04:56:17 RagnarDanneskjol: http://f9beb4d9.org/

04:56:28 RagnarDanneskjol: http://qntra.net/2014/11/introducing-a-new-bitcoin-foundation/

04:56:28 assbot: Introducing A New Bitcoin Foundation | Qntra.net

04:57:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58120 @ 0.0005603 = 32.5646 BTC [-] {2}

05:02:36 Adlai: nice domain name byte order :D

05:03:34 chalbersma: Looks interesting.

05:06:12 chalbersma: I assume they're hosting the code somewhere?

05:07:34 RagnarDanneskjol: really only here for now: http://therealbitcoin.org no github or anything yet

05:07:40 RagnarDanneskjol: afaik

05:13:06 decimation: there's nothing like reading a slow signal on an old analog scope

05:21:51 RagnarDanneskjol: chalbersma - also worth mentioning (what's wrong w/ the 'official' ver): http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html

05:21:52 assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21

05:22:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16350 @ 0.00056317 = 9.2078 BTC [+] {2}

05:24:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20124 @ 0.00056367 = 11.3433 BTC [+]

05:28:04 mircea_popescu: <RagnarDanneskjol> in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable << why ?

05:28:22 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader. << nah, not related.

05:30:44 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet. << pretty much how this works yes.

05:31:54 mircea_popescu: <Adlai> nice domain name byte order :D << ben_vulpes idea

05:39:26 RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu i suppose the notion of taxation in any form makes my brain burn -whether it be through force, state declaration or moral requirement. I am all in favor of the foundation and will likely contribute more than .01% of my earnings to it, but pressing a moral obligation or establishing a rule/precedent for 'taxation' for anyone participating in btc commerce just doesn't make

05:39:27 RagnarDanneskjol: any sense to me -especially until the foundation proves its worth/value

05:40:11 RagnarDanneskjol: *especially without

05:49:26 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well... you familiar with the expression "i gave at the office" ?

05:50:24 RagnarDanneskjol: i dont think so. maybe

05:51:46 mircea_popescu: anyway, arguing against all tax may be a difficult tack for your average business trying to get on with its business rather than become noam chomsky.

05:52:15 mircea_popescu: manwhile, if they subscribe to this, they don't have to : "i won't pay you any tax, not for any other reason than that ~i already paid~".

05:52:17 mircea_popescu: case closed.

05:53:53 RagnarDanneskjol: ha, if only it were that easy

05:53:56 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, it's politically useful. while i can appreciate the philosophical argument of "epsilon is still fundamentally different from 0", it doesn't carry as much practical importance as all that. for one thing, everyone feels entitled to tax you .1%, including any bank moving your money, and so on and so forth. heck, the miners are taxing about 0.1%

05:54:44 mircea_popescu: making it a moral imperative rather than a legal imperative is also important, precisely because the ancient style of voluntary taxation is actually superior, on all scores, to whatever coercitive crap the socialists are doing today.

05:55:47 RagnarDanneskjol: not a tax - those are fees - paying for a service - one can opt out. point taken on moral vs legal imperative.. its the imperative part i'm still struggling with

05:56:31 mircea_popescu: ever read http://trilema.com/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-charity/ ?

05:56:32 assbot: Some basic discussion of charity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

05:56:58 RagnarDanneskjol: oohh - I believe i missed it.. reading nao

05:57:20 mircea_popescu: main point being that ever since kant, all sorts of imperatives are left around.

05:57:46 RagnarDanneskjol: hmm. i see

06:21:08 scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/nopdf-a-pdf-to-text-conversion-tool/

06:23:41 PeterL: mircea_popescu: ^this one's for you :)

06:24:46 *: Adlai tries his hand at the turd polish

06:30:44 Adlai: https://github.com/adlai/bitcoin/tree/polish asciilifeform RagnarDanneskjol chalbersma and anybody else... fork and reuse

06:30:44 assbot: adlai/bitcoin at polish · GitHub

06:31:30 chalbersma: Thanks!

06:31:46 Adlai: np, and welcome

06:34:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18254 @ 0.00056483 = 10.3104 BTC [+]

06:34:46 mircea_popescu: PeterL ah splwendid!

06:35:27 mircea_popescu: !s pdf

06:35:28 assbot: 303 results for 'pdf' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pdf

06:36:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl=https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:141620/CONTENT/Ammous_columbia_0054D_10412.pdf

06:37:27 PeterL: I wonder if I should be caching a copy of documents so that it does not have to do the conversion for everybody clicking the link you just posted?

06:38:09 mircea_popescu: the next words out of my mouth were, PeterL pls to cache documents and

06:38:50 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla feature request : when assbot parses a pdf url, can it spit it out with http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl= prefixed for convenience, while also making a http request so as to start the conversion ?

06:39:10 mircea_popescu: PeterL "HTTP gateway timed out". caching's a must.

06:39:43 mircea_popescu: also if you queue incoming requests you can make sure you don't overrun your resources. sorta like how phuctor works

06:40:04 PeterL: hmm, now thinking of best way to do this ...

06:43:00 kakobrekla: convert on first request then serve from disk

06:43:03 kakobrekla: for converter.

06:53:43 Adlai: chalbersma (and anybody else who may have looked at the repo), please make sure to pull the non-FF changes that properly attribute commit authors

06:57:02 chalbersma: When I get a chance to do some hacking I'll be sure to.

07:53:53 ben_vulpes: an interesting approach, Adlai.

07:53:56 ben_vulpes: i'll link in the AM.

07:54:25 ben_vulpes: the thing is best pursued as the outputs of *authors*, rather than any sort of "blessed" anything by any sort of "foundation".

07:55:04 ben_vulpes: in the same vein as the declaration, the only code that matters is that as published by *individuals*, and only ever those in the wot.

07:55:39 ben_vulpes: Adlai: do us all a favor, and send the mailing list an email, yeah?

07:56:16 ben_vulpes: describe the repo in question and your branching policy if you have such and the time to elaborate upon it.

08:05:32 mircea_popescu: !up phish

08:10:05 mircea_popescu: "I lost a shit load in investments. I dont have anymore BTC left."

08:10:18 mircea_popescu: random forum imbecile, november 5th 2014.

08:10:37 mircea_popescu: "investments" they're called. mpoe-pr was totally a smart way to use money huh.

08:11:08 ben_vulpes: who is this: http://futurerant.tumblr.com/

08:11:08 assbot: FutureRant

08:12:25 mircea_popescu: nobody ?

08:12:28 mircea_popescu: !up zanza

08:12:38 mircea_popescu: "In my last post, I posited a fictional world, Crypton, where no governments1 back up contracts with the threat of force2."

08:13:01 mircea_popescu: "i read some shit from last year's trilema and here's my inept respinning of it!"

08:13:23 zanza: has anyone tried Bit4x?

08:13:43 mircea_popescu: isn;'t that kakobrekla's thing ?

08:13:57 zanza: yeah, he lists this as the IRC channel :o

08:14:22 kakobrekla: yeah

08:14:24 kakobrekla: sup

08:14:36 zanza: hey :D

08:14:45 kakobrekla: hi

08:14:58 zanza: bit4x good site? i am looking to do forex in bitcoin

08:15:24 zanza: it seems to have goot OTC review

08:15:27 zanza: good*

08:15:31 kakobrekla: well the site isnt that good but the service is

08:15:46 zanza: ok :) cool ill send an email and like to setup an cct

08:15:58 kakobrekla: alright

08:16:04 zanza: support@bit4x.com

08:16:12 kakobrekla: should work

08:16:27 zanza: the people on Bitcointalk seem rude

08:16:32 zanza: bitcointalk.com

08:16:44 mircea_popescu: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ?

08:16:45 assbot: American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations

08:16:57 mircea_popescu: zanza they're dumb is the problem. rude, whatever.

08:17:02 zanza: haha

08:17:13 mircea_popescu: "Greg Matthews is an internet pioneer and early domainer. "

08:17:37 mircea_popescu: seriously ? fucking retard world out there. "little timmy dribbles is an early cerealizer and soup eater"

08:17:49 zanza: Kakobrekla, may I ask, does running the Bit4x site have a lot of risk for you? i mean if prices change

08:18:07 zanza: or is it not that risky if price changes

08:18:34 mircea_popescu: " After selling his ISP company in 2007, he began work as a researcher and advocate for digital currencies. He enjoys working as a freelance writer and is editor in chief at Altcoin Press." totally, 5 year gap in the mongoloid's cv. spent 2007-2013 staring at a brick.

08:18:49 kakobrekla: for my part there is very little risk

08:19:12 zanza: ok, so do you balance the bitcoin storage somehow like I forget the word

08:19:33 zanza: so the price change doesn't effect you

08:19:41 zanza: I assume you use your own money to do the forex

08:19:46 mircea_popescu: you looking for hedge ?

08:19:46 zanza: and keep BTC as reserve

08:19:50 zanza: hedge!!

08:19:54 zanza: *ding ding*

08:20:20 kakobrekla: everything i do is btc denomiated

08:20:40 zanza: but you can't trade currency with BTC right? like Eur/USD

08:20:55 kakobrekla: you can

08:20:59 zanza: ahh, ok

08:21:03 zanza: got it thanks!

08:21:13 kakobrekla: you cant trade btcusd or btcxxx

08:21:54 zanza: is business ok for you? something you will continue doing in the future?

08:22:03 zanza: hoping it gets bigger

08:22:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23988 @ 0.00056483 = 13.5491 BTC [+]

08:22:36 *: mircea_popescu perks ears for this one.

08:22:44 zanza: I was reading Bitcointalk, people are looking for Forex to do with Bitcoin, but the main issue is trust

08:22:56 mircea_popescu: it's rare that noobs manage to ask questions i actually want to hear the answer to.

08:23:04 zanza: LOL

08:23:39 zanza: but the main Forex companies are so regulated by government I don't want to deal with them

08:23:55 zanza: none of them allow you to keep BTC balance I believe

08:24:45 kakobrekla: yes, more things to come soon

08:24:46 kakobrekla: there will web interface, api, internal signals, maybe mobile

08:24:46 kakobrekla: will be*

08:24:47 mircea_popescu: zanza if it helps you, kakobrekla had ~100 btc investment from F.MPIF for a few months, in his panacea forex fund. he paid back.

08:24:55 mircea_popescu: the details are in the f.mpif reports.

08:25:22 zanza: cool :) I think it is a great idea

08:25:31 zanza: and has very big possibility

08:25:34 zanza: in the future

08:28:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00056397 = 3.1864 BTC [-]

08:35:48 mircea_popescu: a spoonful of dung has very big possibility, in the future.

08:37:38 kakobreklaa: blah, bnc died

08:38:03 Adlai: ;;isup www.bit4x.com

08:38:06 gribble: www.bit4x.com is down

08:38:17 kakobreklaa: ah our friend is listening

08:38:21 kakobreklaa: hi!

08:39:01 kakobreklaa: lucky i update the page once every 6 months or so you can look at internet archive for freshest news

08:39:31 mircea_popescu: kakobreklaa lol are you being persecuted ?

08:39:40 kakobreklaa: looks like

08:40:21 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m54SmVsQqgc << lmao check out them crazy candians

08:40:21 assbot: Loreena McKennitt - La Serenissima - YouTube

08:41:06 Adlai: kakobreklaa: so, this works entirely through mt4?

08:41:58 kakobreklaa: Adlai yea

08:42:22 Adlai: and scripting could be done with eg https://github.com/pczarn/metatrader-multilang ?

08:42:23 assbot: pczarn/metatrader-multilang · GitHub

08:43:23 kakobreklaa: idk if that works

08:43:44 kakobreklaa: i have a 0mq that will eat pgp

08:43:50 Adlai: upon further examination it does not seem to work

08:44:29 Adlai: or more precisely... it works, but not as expected by the optimistic plumber

08:44:52 Adlai: please tell us more about your pgpivorous steroid socket

08:45:58 kakobreklaa: not much to it, you send a signcrypted message to socket and get back an answer, just like mpex works

08:46:20 Adlai: dox?

08:46:40 kakobreklaa: not yet

08:47:05 mircea_popescu: o.O

08:47:18 Adlai: live public coaching via irc sometime next week?

08:47:28 *: Adlai will be away for a while

08:47:45 kakobreklaa: lol whats the rush

08:48:15 mircea_popescu: apparently people wanna use your things

08:48:22 Adlai: amazing feeling innit

08:48:22 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

08:48:22 mircea_popescu: much to everyone's surprise o.o

08:49:35 Adlai: to assuage that look of terminal shock in your eyes: there's no real rush, i have an endless list of other turds to polish

08:49:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00056397 = 5.4705 BTC [-]

08:49:51 kakobreklaa: see i knew it

08:50:01 kakobreklaa: ;)

08:50:39 Adlai: but running scalpl on something other than btcfiat has been on the back burner for a long time, in part due to not wanting to touch any glitzy forex gambler-traps

08:51:10 mircea_popescu: omg kako stop sabotaging yourself, you're ready darling! pop that cherry!

08:52:01 Adlai: for all i know, my current parameters could be totally overfit to the quirks of two btcfiat marketplaces, or worse, the whole algorithm could be overfit to bitcoin's crazyness and may be totally worthless elsewhere

08:52:27 Adlai: so this is a fairly important avenue to explore

08:54:51 *: Adlai has to wait at least a week though, his qntry needs him

09:05:03 cazalla: <mircea_popescu> http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ? <<< same guy who claimed his friends/family called him satoshi's drunk uncle

09:05:04 assbot: American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations

09:06:29 mircea_popescu: so he's basically a drunk ?

09:07:13 Adlai: *drunkle

09:07:17 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2014#822992

09:07:17 assbot: Logged on 08-09-2014 22:35:52; mircea_popescu: "Thank you for this clarification Mr. Nakamoto. It has been an honor to be labeled by my friends as "Satoshi's Drunk Uncle" and it's a moniker I'll wear proudly until the day I retire from Crypto. The Goldcoin (GLD) developers truly admire your work and strive to continue improving upon its design as a tribute to your unparallelled genius. Your admirer and relative in spirit, MicroGuy."

09:07:28 cazalla: that is what i refer to

09:08:19 mircea_popescu: lol drunkle

09:08:20 Adlai: (the author of the altcoinpress article)

09:08:56 mircea_popescu: wait. this dumb schmuck is talking to someone who isn't satoshi about how his fambly jesus christ

09:09:04 mircea_popescu: things just got too redditesque all of a sudden.

09:09:06 cazalla: this might be the first day since qntra started that i did not post.. nothing of interest today

09:09:25 mircea_popescu: "relative in spirit" ?

09:09:53 Adlai: *spirits

09:10:27 mircea_popescu: incomprehensible the void powering these... things, whatever they are. what was he doing before, talking to a bottle of draino about how he's bald in spirit, just like the genie guy ?

09:12:41 mircea_popescu: http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/mr-proper.jpg < whatever that's called.

09:13:32 mircea_popescu: speaking of which,

09:13:44 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` http://www.fustar.info/2010/05/04/the-9th-circle-film-club-cybertracker-1994/ << this guy wanted a tshirt, in like 2010

09:13:45 assbot: The 9th Circle Film Club: CyberTracker (1994) | Fustar

09:13:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:21:21 punkman: any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"?

09:22:40 kakobreklaa: notrly

09:22:57 Adlai: how about 'stuffy', ie 'not airy'

09:25:00 punkman: from that microguy https://www.startjoin.com/gogold

09:25:01 assbot: South African Goldcoin GLD Conference project on StartJOIN

09:25:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.0005609 = 18.678 BTC [-] {2}

09:29:56 cazalla: punkman, he drinks fosters in his youtube videos and is under the impression that makes him an honorary australia

09:30:10 cazalla: australian* even

09:32:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00056039 = 9.0503 BTC [-]

09:33:32 cazalla: http://youtu.be/Q3wxinuADjI?t=2m20s

09:33:33 assbot: South African Goldcoin (GLD) Conference - YouTube

09:34:26 Adlai: gribble | Error: Username already registered. Try a different username. << fucker

09:34:42 Adlai: help echangekey

09:34:59 punkman: my favourite australian beverage: http://www.kellysdistributors.net.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_231.jpg

09:35:57 cazalla: punkman, prefer the gingerbeer and sarsparilla

09:36:27 punkman: yeah the gingerbeer wasn't bad either

09:37:07 punkman: I can't get a decent gingerbeer around here, been considering brewing my own

09:37:20 Adlai: how do i add a gpg identity to my gribble account? i'm already registered with a bitcoin address, and gribble responds to eregister and echangekey with "Error: Username already registered. Try a different username."

09:40:27 punkman: adlai, echangekey should work I think, what error does it give you?

09:40:43 Adlai: Adlai | oh, a better question would be "in which keyserver does gribble look"

09:40:58 punkman: sks and mit

09:44:08 Adlai: punkman: ugh, it's sending me an encrypted otp, but responds to eauth with "Error: You have not registered a GPG key. Try using bcauth instead, or register a GPG key first."

09:44:31 punkman: auth with bc, then changekey?

09:44:37 Adlai: ;;ident adlai

09:44:37 gribble: Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj

09:47:31 Adlai: ;;ident adlai

09:47:31 gribble: Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id 4D88596A7CDA03F9, key fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj

09:48:06 Adlai: that took way too fucking long and is just as [in]secure as using a privkey >_<

09:49:01 punkman: how so?

09:50:09 Adlai: they're both the same overall protocol, just a serialization formats and signature algorithms

09:50:25 Adlai: s/ a /different/

09:52:10 punkman: well whaddayawant, second factor via SMS?

09:54:46 Adlai: ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW

09:55:22 punkman: Adlai, gotta wait for key to reach jurov

09:56:07 *: Adlai waits on the go

09:56:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32051 @ 0.00056006 = 17.9505 BTC [-] {3}

10:05:24 cazalla: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/QRgj8LL0

10:05:24 assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com

10:05:24 punkbot: cazalla: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

10:16:28 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3

10:26:02 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17QDikg3DHHNPnbq43ScYq17nMsN1G4XSo | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3

10:28:04 punkbot: [trust-update] added: adlai

10:36:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055845 = 8.293 BTC [-]

11:02:19 jurov: puknman what key?

11:02:41 jurov: *punkman

11:04:12 punkman: adlai tried posting to mail list, but you don't have his key yet

11:05:55 jurov: mhm

11:17:18 PinkPosixPXE: looks like he got authed

11:17:25 PinkPosixPXE: ;;gpg info adlai

11:17:25 gribble: User 'Adlai', with keyid 4D88596A7CDA03F9, fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj, registered on Sat Oct 6 00:55:28 2012, last authed on Sun Nov 9 04:47:12 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=Adlai . Currently authenticated from hostmask Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai .

11:21:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00055845 = 6.478 BTC [-]

11:22:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00056218 = 15.3475 BTC [+]

11:32:32 jurov: ;;later tell Adlai you're in

11:32:32 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:59:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38606 @ 0.00056347 = 21.7533 BTC [+]

13:00:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24568 @ 0.00056347 = 13.8433 BTC [+]

14:12:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00056629 = 6.8521 BTC [+]

14:35:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14937 @ 0.00056469 = 8.4348 BTC [-] {2}

15:30:13 mod6: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=N4G424fA

15:30:13 punkbot: mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

15:41:55 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1Kd3Fxzj

15:45:02 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1Kd3FxzjPcjGW2icEneEEZgBgX7r37jS1S | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1Kd3Fxzj

15:46:00 mod6: <+asciilifeform> gotta sign, so we 'all hang together or separately' (as, i think, were the words of the americans.) << As true today as it was for Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence in 1776

15:52:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056629 = 8.0413 BTC [+]

15:59:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00056448 = 7.3665 BTC [-]

16:26:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00056448 = 2.3144 BTC [-]

16:35:53 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/11/darknet-sweep.pdf

16:36:13 asciilifeform: ^ http://pastebin.com/AAT1ZWq5

16:36:13 assbot: Darknet Sweep Casts Doubt on Tor Tor Will Be Defeated Again, and Again, and Ag - Pastebin.com

16:40:02 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:41:03 asciilifeform: kakobrekla, mircea_popescu, others - re: 'nopdf' - i actually used to own 'nopdf.com' and planned to put a similar widget there. (2009-ish?)

16:41:22 asciilifeform: even included the caching thing

16:42:13 asciilifeform: but then realized that it would be mostly useless (in those days, almost everything i ever saw in 'pdf' belonged in that or similar format - technical documents heavy on graphics)

16:42:39 mircea_popescu: well, you gotta remember, a thing made is always a platform for further things.

16:43:28 asciilifeform: i did write a gizmo that outputs graphical render for the pages, but realized that the bandwidth and disk cache costs would break my back, and then let the domain go to the vultures.

16:45:40 asciilifeform: the interesting thing is the 'psychiatric' reason for the pestilential spread of pdf for text.

16:45:50 asciilifeform: it's essentially the same as the reason 'flash' exists.

16:46:42 mircea_popescu: the reason for it is contained in the declaration's last paragraphs.

16:46:53 mircea_popescu: governments have actual money to waste, and they do on hiring idiots.

16:46:58 asciilifeform: actually it's much simpler

16:47:03 mircea_popescu: then those idiots become a group large enough to drive fashions.

16:47:22 mircea_popescu: keeping idiots poor and powerless is the only sound purpose of government.

16:48:07 asciilifeform: plenty of people who aren't the least bit idiotic or government-affiliated want to package a document and have it appear exactly the same on the other end of the wire.

16:48:44 asciilifeform: no demented font substitutions, no dysfunctional selective execution of 'stylesheet' crud, etc.

16:48:50 asciilifeform: actual same picture.

16:49:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and why do they want this ?

16:49:17 mircea_popescu: oh, wait, because the audience is demented and can't be trusted ?

16:50:08 asciilifeform: what observables would be different if the audience were not demented, and could be trusted?

16:50:23 mircea_popescu: you pump out the text, they figure out how to display it ?

16:50:37 mircea_popescu: you know, like... usenet ?!

16:50:50 mircea_popescu: nobody perceived a need for pdf back before sept 1993 did they ?

16:50:55 asciilifeform: actually

16:51:13 asciilifeform: postscript (essentially the guts of pdf) existed.

16:51:21 mircea_popescu: yes.

16:51:29 asciilifeform: and heavily used, by academics

16:51:31 mircea_popescu: and it was used to ? wait for it!

16:51:36 mircea_popescu: to talk to motherfucking printers

16:51:39 mircea_popescu: which were demented at the time.

16:51:53 asciilifeform: it's still state of the art in driving printer.

16:51:56 mircea_popescu: i tell you. fixed-form is an instrument for talking with the braindamaged.

16:52:10 mircea_popescu: well yes, because printers are still by and large about as smart as a public servant.

16:52:17 mircea_popescu: smart isn't the world. about as sane.

16:52:26 asciilifeform: i like manuals, academic papers, etc. in dead tree.

16:52:35 mircea_popescu: sure.

16:52:36 asciilifeform: and reflowable text sent to printer, looks like piss.

16:52:45 mircea_popescu: it wouldn't have to.

16:53:00 asciilifeform: the only solution to above is to essentially do the typesetter's job and latexize it

16:53:48 mircea_popescu: you know, while this may well be a pn complete problem in the general case,

16:53:56 mircea_popescu: that general case is actually chtulhu speaking

16:53:56 asciilifeform: i question that it even makes sense to ask for smart reflow independent of page size and shape

16:54:03 mircea_popescu: otherwise, the problem is not nearly as hard as all that.

16:54:24 mircea_popescu: dude. i question it even makes sense to have a good programming language right back at ya!

16:54:25 asciilifeform: tell that to the latex folks, they would love to know the elixir.

16:54:30 mircea_popescu: it ALWAYS makes sense to be smart.

16:54:46 asciilifeform: incidentally, they have quite a bit of clever automatics re: reflow

16:54:54 asciilifeform: but notice humans are still involved in typesetting.

16:55:13 mircea_popescu: sure.

16:57:38 mircea_popescu: fucking fidonet didn't need no stinking pdf.

16:58:02 mircea_popescu: and you know what ? it allowed asciiart!

16:58:16 mircea_popescu: how the fuck can you do that w/o adobe o noes!

16:58:25 mircea_popescu: none of the fucking lines allign! save us microsoft!

16:58:40 chetty: adobe is one of the pillars of evil

16:58:50 asciilifeform: aha i'll wait for somebody to asciiart my old soviet magazine scans, yes.

16:59:49 asciilifeform: basic problem here: if there were ten million idiots swinging hammers at strangers in the city streets, it does not thereby follow that carpenters ought to get by without hammers.

17:00:08 mircea_popescu: i am not proposing to remove the carpenter's hammers.

17:00:41 chetty: adobe reps were very adept at sabatoge back in the w3c days

17:00:42 mircea_popescu: fwiw, asylum, which i typeset myself, was printed as a pdf. the house ran a large web press, did my run in like three hours.

17:23:06 asciilifeform: also must appreciate how much hand-driven 'typesetting' (e.g., using linebreaks and editing around known fixed row/column viewers such as the 80x25 term) took place in the 'golden age' of fido et al

17:24:51 mircea_popescu: a man is not required to inherit his father's warts.

17:25:07 asciilifeform: except those were vital organs, not warts

17:25:21 asciilifeform: fact is, i don't want to read code page-broken in random places.

17:25:27 mircea_popescu: fixed row/column viewers ? how.

17:26:22 asciilifeform: well, elementary case of msdos text mode.

17:26:47 asciilifeform: plenty of things were written to fit in its 'screen-full'

17:27:38 asciilifeform: but more relevant to printers. fact is, reading anything technical that wasn't formatted for a particular page shape, and suffer idiot breaks.

17:27:54 mircea_popescu: these don't sound so much like vital organs.

17:28:19 JorgePasada: Greetings

17:28:38 asciilifeform: do you even use printers.

17:28:47 ben_vulpes: lookie lookie

17:28:59 pete_dushenski: http://rt.com/news/203583-drone-boning-porn-nsfw/

17:29:04 JorgePasada: Hey Ben :-)

17:29:12 JorgePasada: Long time no see

17:29:59 *: pete_dushenski wonders why mod6 and asciilifeform signed the tithe3 with SHA1...

17:30:15 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: ancient key

17:30:33 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform so ancient that you can't setpref to SHA512?

17:30:52 *: asciilifeform probably ought to

17:32:00 asciilifeform: problem is, let's say the devil has sha1 collision finder, and decides to apply to my case

17:32:17 asciilifeform: since my key flag bits permit sha1, he can still, say, sign into gribble as me.

17:32:23 asciilifeform: until i retire this key.

17:32:26 mod6: pete_dushenski: ah, yah, overlooked the flag *grumble*

17:33:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, and suppose you see a message from me using sha1 when you know i use sha512.

17:33:05 mircea_popescu: what now ?

17:33:10 mircea_popescu: canaries are canaries yeh ?

17:33:13 asciilifeform: aha.

17:33:50 mircea_popescu: gotta understand that any big bad only exists as a work of fiction, otherwise is simply a collection of men. gotta give those men ways out, so that "mysterious" and "inexplicable" things happen

17:34:11 mircea_popescu: big bad is dumb as rocks, on its own. has nfi what all the things mean.

17:34:59 *: asciilifeform thinks back to various stories of captive soldiers getting messages out through various clever means.

17:35:04 pete_dushenski: https://www.debian-administration.org/users/dkg/weblog/48 << how to, just on the very-off-chance

17:35:05 assbot: Weblog for dkg - HOWTO prep for migration off of SHA-1 in OpenPGP

17:35:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9554 @ 0.00056563 = 5.404 BTC [+]

17:35:29 mircea_popescu: easiest thing in the world is a mistake. the fucking cold war was won not by any other means than... mistakes.

17:35:48 pete_dushenski: the cold war was won?

17:35:56 mircea_popescu: multiple times.

17:36:07 *: pete_dushenski listening

17:36:50 mod6: well, i guess there isn't anything I can do now, other than sign it again with 512 ://

17:37:13 mircea_popescu: at some point in the cold war, the united states president was a totally inept ninkompoop, principally remembered for having taken his shoes off in the un council. this guy had an oversized military and inept economic policies that stalled the country. his fellow americans didn't think much of him, kept making little mistakes.

17:37:42 mircea_popescu: these piled up, eventually the us collapsed of it, took them twenty years to regroup, but meanwhile lost alaska and california.

17:37:48 JorgePasada: Anyone going to CCC this year? I'm thinking about making the trip

17:38:11 mircea_popescu: course then russia was trying to join california in the warsaw pact, and a bunch of topless aggitator chicks kept fucking the pot,

17:38:14 mircea_popescu: so in the end it's unclear.

17:38:52 asciilifeform: l0l!

17:38:57 mircea_popescu: shush you :)

17:39:13 mircea_popescu: appreciate my "in the end it's unclear" instead. it's damned good :D

17:40:05 mircea_popescu: mod6 it's no big deal, just change your pref and forget about it.

17:40:21 mircea_popescu: JorgePasada which is ccc again ?

17:40:22 mod6: *nod* ok, thanks mp

17:40:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00056629 = 1.6989 BTC [+]

17:41:56 JorgePasada: https://twitter.com/31c3

17:41:58 assbot: CCC - 31c3 (@31c3) on Twitter

17:42:12 JorgePasada: Technically 31c3 is the confrerence I guess

17:42:40 JorgePasada: Chaos Computer Club (Conference)

17:46:10 mircea_popescu: ah, hamburg is a nice town

17:46:10 asciilifeform: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/kwr11bEU

17:46:11 assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com

17:46:11 punkbot: asciilifeform: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

17:46:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4382 @ 0.00056629 = 2.4815 BTC [+]

17:47:22 pete_dushenski: noob question about pgp keys: is there any sense in airgapping for signing only?

17:48:00 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the point of airgapping is to defend the key. which you are using when you sign, yes

17:48:23 pete_dushenski: right

17:48:27 ben_vulpes: you can also pull your master key out of the keyring and stash it safely somewhere, pete_dushenski

17:49:31 pete_dushenski: so i guess the question is whether keeping a key online for gribble authing is *that* much of a risk

17:49:50 asciilifeform: the only person who can correctly determine your favourite level of risk - is you

17:49:58 pete_dushenski: myea

17:50:52 pete_dushenski: i suppose you could use a subkey for gribble and keep the master airgapped

17:51:53 asciilifeform: does wot mechanism automatically respect superceding keys?

17:51:56 asciilifeform: i still don't know this.

17:52:28 asciilifeform: personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality.

17:52:59 asciilifeform: and wot isn't even the only gizmo here that uses keys

17:53:06 asciilifeform: jurov's turdatron, another

17:53:22 asciilifeform: and the ultimate champ in cementing ancient keys in place, or so i'm told, mircea_popescu's mpex

17:53:31 asciilifeform: where you gotta resubscribe if want to swap key.

17:55:01 PeterL: asciilifeform: re flash: my daughter's school uses some online math games, requires flash. I tried to log her in, can't because most recent flash is no longer supporting linux or pre-'08 macOS

17:55:31 asciilifeform: PeterL: it is worth thinking about why 'flash' remains a thing.

17:55:55 JorgePasada: PeterL: You running something with a PowerPC chip?

17:55:58 pete_dushenski: not like jobs didn't try to kill it

17:56:07 PeterL: just another way to introduce more dependencies

17:56:21 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality. <<

17:56:22 PeterL: JorgePasada: no, it is an intel

17:57:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: why cement?

17:57:09 JorgePasada: PeterL: Couldn't you just download a custom browser package that has a version of flash bundled with it then?

17:57:11 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek

17:57:15 PeterL: but old enough that it can't upgrade to newer versions of MacOS

17:57:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, re i do the same.

17:57:25 asciilifeform: aha

17:57:33 asciilifeform: i suspect most folks here do this.

17:57:34 PeterL: JorgePasada: do they have such things?

17:58:03 mircea_popescu: PeterL yeah, flash running browsers have been a ubuntu specialty.

17:58:10 PeterL: I don't feel like I need flash enough to get a whole new browser

17:58:12 JorgePasada: PeterL: I believe that all versions of chrome do this automatically

17:58:45 PeterL: Oh, my computer can't get chrome, in VM Ubuntu the chrome says it can't get the latest flash

17:59:05 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

17:59:11 asciilifeform: http://philip.greenspun.com/research/internet-haters << how we ended up with 'flash' and similar crap.

17:59:12 assbot: Internet Haters -- HTML Chapter

17:59:25 PeterL: I might just break down and get a newer computer sometime

17:59:57 asciilifeform: 'flash' survives precisely because it is a mostly opaque binary format, which browsers can't 'spread democracy to'

18:00:22 PeterL: sort of the complete opposite of open source?

18:00:24 mircea_popescu: that';s a good point.

18:00:37 mircea_popescu: PeterL well, yes. "a man in charge" situation.

18:00:49 asciilifeform: (see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 )

18:00:50 assbot: Loper OS » No Formats, no Format Wars.

18:01:01 mircea_popescu: as stupid as the man in charge can be, the benefits often outpace the damage. this was discussed here re stalin

18:01:07 asciilifeform: aha.

18:01:22 asciilifeform: this is why flash survives in spite of being written by - what appears to be downs-syndrome cases

18:01:33 asciilifeform: (or simply inept players of 'underhanded c contest')

18:02:10 asciilifeform: www in the html-js-and-extension-crud sense is a case of standards 'so open their brains fall out'

18:02:28 asciilifeform: a whole gang of vultures 'embraced and extended' them, including but not limited to microshit

18:02:55 asciilifeform: everything i just said re: flash, applies also to 'pdf'

18:03:16 mircea_popescu: this is, at least in my view, why personal sovereignity is not avoidable on the mid or long term.

18:03:25 mircea_popescu: the open/closed software has no stable solution otherwise.

18:03:28 asciilifeform: gotta keep democrashit out.

18:03:32 asciilifeform: or dissolve in it.

18:03:58 mircea_popescu: incidentally, living things seem a little more advanced than our computers on this exact path

18:04:20 mircea_popescu: they use exaclty a biological implementation of personal sovereignity to build open but not too open systems that survive well in the world.

18:04:43 asciilifeform: a greybeard once described the modern computer as 'apartment with plumbing but no sewer connection'

18:04:57 mircea_popescu: lol

18:05:04 asciilifeform: it did not make sense in my mind at the time.

18:05:30 asciilifeform: the above point re: flash and pdf, also applies to game machines.

18:05:47 mircea_popescu: but anyway, for the theoretically minded : would you say the b-a software paradigm is open source or closed source ?

18:05:53 mircea_popescu: because it technically satisfies both definitions.

18:06:02 asciilifeform: one reason why folks still write programs for toys such as 'super nintendo' - despite the need to DIY roms

18:06:15 asciilifeform: because the machine is standard. as in, entirely. and entirely stateless except for your rom.

18:06:37 asciilifeform: hence definable. and works, like mathematics, rather than like sand castle built in a cesspit.

18:06:43 mircea_popescu: yeah hacking the supernintendo is actually still part of training hackers afaik.

18:06:44 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1DDnMWekucn2XDeCHpfgz5MvM5Y6VYiVp2 | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek

18:06:56 PeterL: we have a software paradigm now?

18:06:59 asciilifeform: b-a software paradigm?

18:07:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform PeterL it's developing software, is it not ?

18:07:36 PeterL: could you specify our paradigm?

18:07:41 asciilifeform: from what i can personally see, it's heavy on the duct tape

18:07:56 asciilifeform: and likely to suffer the fate of the first deedbot at some point, possibly repeatedly

18:08:01 mircea_popescu: PeterL well, it should be obvious in the logs :D!!!

18:08:06 PeterL: so far, to me, it looks open source

18:08:15 mircea_popescu: PeterL if you're in the wot.

18:08:30 PeterL: but anybody can read it

18:08:38 mircea_popescu: suppose ninjashogun wants to push a patch for deedbot. or, whatever, the cardano.

18:08:43 PeterL: and anybody can get into the WoT

18:08:51 mircea_popescu: yes, anyone can read it. i went to a swinger's club yest, anyone could look at my bitches.

18:09:02 mircea_popescu: and i did happen to have the finest bitches in the place, buncha losers.

18:09:05 mircea_popescu: but what's in a look ?

18:09:32 mircea_popescu: and no, emphatically NOT anyone can get in the wot.

18:09:46 mircea_popescu: that safadean fellow can get in the wot. but otherwise, most people can try.

18:09:54 PeterL: well, with code, they could fork it and make their own version

18:10:00 mircea_popescu: sure, they could.

18:10:08 asciilifeform: and they can grow own gurlz

18:10:10 mircea_popescu: i hear gavin is planning to fork bitcoin and make his own version.

18:10:11 mircea_popescu: so ?

18:10:28 PeterL: so therefore it is open for anybody to take

18:10:44 mircea_popescu: heh.

18:10:52 asciilifeform: one possible argument here is that the complete system is not in the code.

18:10:54 JorgePasada: PeterL: Anyone can fork it, not anyone can do the backlog of proof of work to 'take' things though.

18:11:11 mircea_popescu: PeterL huns are open for anyone to take, and kill themselves with.

18:11:22 PeterL: lol

18:11:23 mircea_popescu: code works slowly, you spend a life and in the end it's all a waste.

18:11:26 JorgePasada: asciilifeform: exactly, it's in the network of people & the chain of transactions and everything that's brought us to this point.

18:11:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is necessarily so. because godel is a cult.

18:12:04 mircea_popescu: PeterL look at the discussion about al schwartz's failed measurements.

18:12:10 asciilifeform: ^^

18:12:11 mircea_popescu: he ~could~ have made his own chemistry.

18:12:20 mircea_popescu: except ars longa cocka smalla.

18:13:04 *: mircea_popescu re-reads, notices he misspelled guns as huns, wonders why the fuck has he not realised this before.

18:13:25 PeterL: would you consider chemistry literature open or closed? I guess it is similar idea, to put stuff in it has to be vetted by experts

18:13:36 scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pigfarmin/

18:13:45 asciilifeform: PeterL: what is the point of shoehorning things into these weird categories?

18:13:49 mircea_popescu: ^ that's r18 btw, don't read among small children.

18:14:07 PeterL: dunno, mircea_popescu asked about open/closed source

18:14:25 mircea_popescu: PeterL the reason i said "for the theoretically minded" was exactly this tongue in cheek point. "take your broken models and try make sense of the world whydontcha!"

18:14:54 PeterL: but I want everything to fit in the models I already have !!1!

18:15:44 mircea_popescu: you'd make a great nine year old

18:16:12 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/531243553415233536

18:16:14 assbot: Just like http://t.co/VhF3XQ1Tiq RT /nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but /hashtag/ISIS?src=hash is the product of the internet.

18:16:36 pete_dushenski: @pete_dushenski Just like http://bitcoin-assets.com RT @nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but #ISIS is the product of the internet.

18:16:36 assbot: #bitcoin-assets | You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.

18:16:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pigfarmin' << it's like my childhood favorite 'alt.tasteless' newsgroup lives again!

18:16:50 *: asciilifeform takes off hat

18:17:10 mircea_popescu: lol

18:17:32 mircea_popescu: anyway, re the entire extension and so forth : everything that works on the internet and in the world works on "our" principles.

18:17:47 mircea_popescu: who the fuck ever read whatever software the dns letters run ? who ever wrote a patch for it ?

18:18:37 asciilifeform: this is more or less same as the (very true) observation that buildings which stand up, whether in england or in best-korea, are designed on same basic principles.

18:18:54 mircea_popescu: right.

18:19:15 pete_dushenski: which is why they invented hammurabi's code

18:19:25 pete_dushenski: the architect knows more than the inspector ever could

18:19:40 pete_dushenski: building fails, dead architect

18:20:04 ben_vulpes: "they"?

18:20:20 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1GN8SYD.txt )

18:20:20 asciilifeform: !b 4

18:20:44 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes god? babylonians? what difference does it make ;)

18:21:02 pete_dushenski: the concept of skin in the game is nothing new

18:27:00 JorgePasada: pete_dushenski: Yeah, we just have a lot of half-assed implimentations of it in modern society.

18:27:40 mircea_popescu: to "foster creativity"

18:27:46 JorgePasada: Bitcoin is a whole-assed implementation of skin in the game...

18:28:04 JorgePasada: or an assholes implementation, forget which.

18:28:18 pete_dushenski: lol

18:28:29 mircea_popescu: rapist's.

18:28:38 pete_dushenski: anyways i'm off. have a great afternoon!

18:28:45 mircea_popescu: i believe the proper femsociety word for one who does not care about stupid shit is rapist.

18:29:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33054 @ 0.00056629 = 18.7181 BTC [+]

18:34:26 mircea_popescu: "The result? A formatting language too wimpy even for a novel." <<< this is pure nonsense. i had my novel on the web just fine in plain html.

18:34:36 mircea_popescu: and speaking of which! http://www.amazon.com/Asylum-The-Novel-Chet/dp/B000ODPCKQ holy shit aftermarket.

18:34:37 assbot: Asylum: The Novel: Chet, Zeno: Amazon.com: Books

18:35:34 chetty: hahahahaha

18:36:04 *: asciilifeform bought

18:36:40 mircea_popescu: chetty can you believe people still buy your stuff a decade later ?

18:36:52 mircea_popescu: i mean... that's like britney spears level.

18:37:00 chetty: weird

18:38:03 chetty: now I wonder how many copies of that are floating about

18:38:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was a fun thing to make, that. i think i still have the publisher responses somewhere, "omg you write the greatest letters and whoa so sorry i can't publish this"

18:40:49 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3239316488198320@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum on formatting

18:40:49 assbot: Re: The Next Generation of Lisp Programmers - Naggum cll archive

18:41:11 chetty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827116/Kissing-bug-disease-infected-300-000-people-don-t-know-parasite-referred-new-AIDS.html

18:41:11 assbot: 'Kissing bug' disease infected OVER 300,000 people in the US | Daily Mail Online

18:42:19 mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2009/lectia-de-humor/ speaking of mono

18:42:20 assbot: Lectia de humor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

18:43:11 chetty: this isnt mono, its a parasite from central america

18:43:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00056643 = 5.9758 BTC [+] {2}

18:44:13 mircea_popescu: o a new one ?!

18:44:38 chetty: nah, just new to the us, because of all the immigration

18:44:44 mircea_popescu: ah chagas. heh.

18:45:11 mircea_popescu: chetty ultimate disease of poverty.

18:45:28 mircea_popescu: i guess after all the tb and bedbug outbreaks in the best socialist california, twas unavoidable.

18:45:55 asciilifeform: all the weird diseases of the tropics, necrotizing fasciitis, etc., will find a welcoming home in usa.

18:46:29 asciilifeform: buruli ulcer.

18:46:39 mircea_popescu: what's that burning water worm called ?

18:46:43 asciilifeform: you name it, there's a welcoming climate here somewhere for it.

18:47:45 mircea_popescu: ;;google dracunculus medinensis.

18:47:45 gribble: Dracunculus medinensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculus_medinensis; CDC - Guinea Worm Disease - Biology: http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/biology.html; CDC - Guinea Worm: http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/

18:50:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00056641 = 20.2775 BTC [-] {2}

18:52:35 mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of leprosy, that thing is a wonder to behold.

18:52:56 mircea_popescu: it's basically a normal bacterium genome that was completely mushed to bits, barely a third of it still works.

18:53:26 mircea_popescu: yet the thing still survived to present day. makes stuff like the www look likely to live on.

19:00:06 mircea_popescu: "Professional graphic artists generally produce Web sites on Macintoshes. They slave over the images until the mid-tones look just right, mid-tones that will be mapped almost to black on a typical Sun workstation or PC. The solution to this problem is trivial: a gamma= field in the IMG HTML tag."

19:00:11 mircea_popescu: holy shit bad idea omfg.

19:00:30 mircea_popescu: giving idiot "web designers" a gamma= is like giving idiot web designers autoplay video with a volume=.

19:00:38 mircea_popescu: worst idea ever, greenspun should be shot.

19:01:58 asciilifeform: gamma-whateverthefuck on uncalibrated displays that one has never seen with own eyes...

19:02:02 asciilifeform: very special, yes.

19:02:44 *: asciilifeform was recently issued a $maxint laptop and was surprised to discover a built-in spectrometer.

19:03:27 asciilifeform: http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/5/6539_44_lenovo_thinkpad_w540_mobile_workstation_laptop_review.jpg << that one

19:03:39 asciilifeform: haven't tried it, winblows-only it seems

19:03:55 mircea_popescu: lmao

19:04:09 mircea_popescu: dude.... spend the time to put a (was it clock driven ?) spectrometer in a laptop

19:04:13 mircea_popescu: run it on windows.

19:05:19 asciilifeform: there's a reverse-engineered driver for it, somewhere. can't be bothered.

19:05:19 mircea_popescu: "If you wrote @bold{foo} instead of <bold>foo</bold>, you would not even /want/ to say @bold{foo @italic{bar} zot} if you expected to get foo in bold, zot in italic, and bar in both." <<< wait, wut ?

19:05:52 mircea_popescu: dafuck would i want to say, @b{foo}@bi

19:05:56 mircea_popescu: {bar} ?

19:07:36 asciilifeform: the verbose monstrosities of **ml-series were justified by the notion that a) no one will ever be forced to write them by hand b) no one will ever be forced to read them with naked eyes

19:07:54 asciilifeform: both turned out to be crocks of shit

19:08:32 asciilifeform: and the basic premise was also a crock of shit (if no naked eyes nor naked hands, why not a compact binary format?)

19:08:34 mircea_popescu: no but wait, my question is, if not {[()]} then what, ()[()]() etc ?

19:08:56 asciilifeform: he was arguing, in the end, for s-expressions.

19:09:47 mircea_popescu: in the end. and its a great point. but before he gets there he steps in it.

19:09:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00056563 = 5.4018 BTC [-]

19:10:29 *: asciilifeform off to see some exotic cats. raises a glass to the ghost of moiety.

19:28:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30983 @ 0.00056448 = 17.4893 BTC [-]

19:31:04 mod6: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jv7pPT8p

19:31:04 punkbot: mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

19:31:21 mod6: ^ with the 512 for good measure

19:32:18 mod6: mp also, thx for the tip about "personal-digest-preferences"

19:36:01 mod6: so has anyone else noticed that the makefile doesn't provide a way to build /without/ debug flags? lol

19:36:30 mod6: you know, incase you'd like to have a binary that isn't bloated with debug symbols?

19:37:03 mod6: anyway, there is a bunch of stuff obv. just another thing for clean up at some point.

19:40:36 punkman: re: sha1 and gpg settings, this is useful https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf

19:40:36 assbot: cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub

19:41:43 punkman: repository also has example of colliding keyids

19:42:23 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu

19:44:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2283 @ 0.00056656 = 1.2935 BTC [+]

19:59:09 mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, and i dunno why that is.

19:59:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00056662 = 9.8025 BTC [+]

20:02:02 mircea_popescu: punkman: any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"? << i like it.

20:04:02 mod6: ah, yeah +1

20:04:20 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17gPmTTuoDRYZXAAHgEu1NZHQwMYeRUoHC | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu

20:09:52 jurov: punkbot: deed https://coinbr.com/decl.txt.asc

20:09:53 punkbot: jurov: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

20:12:37 ben_vulpes: lol did we *all* overlook the typo in the last paragraph?

20:12:47 mircea_popescu: cazalla: australian* even << really seems that guy is trying superhard to belong ?

20:13:01 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i was curiously waiting for the first one to notice.

20:13:12 mircea_popescu: i guess you get the fox award.

20:13:20 ben_vulpes: 'twas mod6 actually

20:13:33 *: ben_vulpes has a feeling he'll be saying that a lot

20:13:37 mircea_popescu: lol

20:14:53 jurov: oppinion?

20:15:08 mircea_popescu: yea

20:16:04 jurov: that's there for future data archeologists, to discern fakes

20:17:08 scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/an-interesting-anthropology-question/

20:17:26 jurov: they will also consider this a confirmation that mircea rides his keyboard hard

20:18:16 mircea_popescu: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf << not bad!

20:18:17 assbot: cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub

20:20:11 mircea_popescu: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/openpgp/current/msg01077.html << who the fuck came up with thar brilliant idea.

20:20:11 assbot: Re: Suggested changes for DSA2, take 4

20:20:23 jurov: the article mentions "boundries" several times, too

20:20:29 mircea_popescu: "If the output size of the chosen hash is larger than the number of bits of q, the hash result is truncated to fit by taking the number of leftmost bits equal to the number of bits of q. This (possibly truncated) hash function result is treated as a number and used directly in the DSA signature algorithm."

20:21:56 mircea_popescu: ah ty.

20:23:08 mircea_popescu: http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ?

20:23:09 assbot: Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network

20:25:19 jurov: Both conference founder Eyal Abramovitch and speaker/sponsor Ofir Beigel are members of Meni Rosenfeld‘s Israeli bitcoiner meetup.

20:42:12 punkman: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak << "intercepts a request for a key by keyid, generates a PGPv3 key, performs the 0xdeadbeef attack, and returns a spoofed (but valid) PGPv3 key with the same long keyid."

20:42:12 assbot: cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub

20:42:27 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7

20:45:01 mircea_popescu: punkbot kinda why we use fingerprints.

20:45:34 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1N8cgoM7SEC7bStCwWEuWFTcn8pKJGgcYa | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7

20:49:21 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i think it claims to handle fingerprints as well: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak#usage

20:49:21 assbot: cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub

20:49:42 mircea_popescu: that's a bold claim.

20:50:18 ben_vulpes: it's hard to tell if it's claiming that. the doc says "try this"

20:50:21 ben_vulpes: and i've not.

20:50:26 mircea_popescu: o wait, this is pgp v3

20:50:33 mircea_popescu: forget it lol, the thing is roughly bitcoin .9

20:50:56 mircea_popescu: i think even debian dropped it 5 years ago

20:51:20 ben_vulpes: subject of .9, has anyone downloaded the full chain with a .5/.6/.7/.8/.9 client? no bootstrapping, no shared db?

20:51:27 mircea_popescu: (v3 keys were md5 hashed)

20:52:02 punkman: it also does some tricks to make it look like v4 "Create a PGPv3 public key, v4 UID, and v4 signature"

20:55:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is of relatively little consequence to us, because we use gribble rather than the pks mess.

20:56:23 punkman: worth a few words on wiki

20:56:35 punkman: don't steal my shares guys http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/5RE44ZXbZyHhDqxLaBvKiYUztfyDcJSATzE8Gy4mN2eD

20:56:36 assbot: Deed 5RE44ZXb | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

21:00:08 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly, use fingerprints. but that aside, best practice is still to extract key via gribble db

21:00:43 punkman: you can only get fingerprint from gribble

21:01:10 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:01:23 mircea_popescu: what do you mean only ? that's what it is.

21:01:52 mircea_popescu: keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452 fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452

21:02:47 mircea_popescu: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.crypt/JSSM6NbfweQ << this is good on the topic

21:02:47 assbot: Google Gruppi

21:02:56 mircea_popescu: (of deadbeef v3 gpg sigs attack)

21:12:54 cazalla: <mircea_popescu> http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ? <<< i'm reading this and think, i fucking wrote this article!

21:12:55 assbot: Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network

21:13:27 mircea_popescu: lol

21:13:32 mircea_popescu: so leave the guy a comment.

21:14:07 jurov: ben_vulpes iirc i did it with .7 or .8 then "bootstrapped" .9 by pointing it to .8 node on LAN

21:16:26 mircea_popescu: did with numerous .6 versions.

21:16:26 jurov: but a hdd died, so i don't have pre - .9 blockchain anymore

21:26:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22146 @ 0.00056662 = 12.5484 BTC [+]

21:26:20 ben_vulpes: good to know, thanks

21:27:05 *: ben_vulpes is wondering about the practicality of using 0.5.3 as a starting pin

21:28:54 jurov: we'll see if this gets anywhere... it's how much since whole thing started? a week?

21:42:25 punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xombrero

21:42:25 assbot: xombrero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

21:43:23 mircea_popescu: also webkit.

21:45:20 mircea_popescu: and im pretty sure all my blockchains are pre .5 for that matter.

22:05:11 jurov: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgzMjg , also another dude (Colin Watson) has quit

22:05:12 assbot: [Phoronix] Joey Hess Resigns From Debian, Unhappy With How It's Changed

22:06:52 jurov: http://debianfork.org/

22:06:52 assbot: Roll up your sleeves, we may need to fork Debian.

22:10:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00056664 = 2.6632 BTC [+]

22:11:14 ben_vulpes: wow mpoe on sale!

22:19:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056722 = 8.2247 BTC [+] {2}

22:25:05 jurov: ;;seen adlai

22:25:05 gribble: adlai was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 hours, 28 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: * Adlai waits on the go

22:26:35 mircea_popescu: !up saifedean

22:26:57 mircea_popescu: debian certainly went to shit since sarge.

22:28:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8271 @ 0.00056662 = 4.6865 BTC [-]

22:32:09 saifedean: good day gentlemen

22:32:39 mircea_popescu: hello!

22:33:06 saifedean: mo, i did email you the dissertation the other day, did you get it?

22:33:12 mircea_popescu: i did.

22:33:22 saifedean: great, just making sure

22:33:36 mircea_popescu: i didn;'t get around to reading it yet, but its in the pile.

22:33:54 saifedean: no worries,

22:33:55 Naphex: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/11/silk-road-other-tor-darknet-sites-may-have-been-decloaked-through-ddos/ lmao!

22:33:55 assbot: Silk Road, other Tor “darknet” sites may have been “decloaked” through DDoS | Ars Technica

22:33:57 mircea_popescu: i still think you should publish it. ever seen http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging/ ?

22:33:57 assbot: A conceit, or the importance of blogging pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

22:34:26 saifedean: so, mp, are you going to be in Buenos Aires January/Feb? I might be popping by for a week or so

22:34:36 Naphex: "es, hello, Internet supervillain here," nachash, said that his server—a virtual private server running the German hosting service Hetzner—was initially hit by what he believed was a denial of service attack in Augus'

22:34:58 mircea_popescu: Naphex maybe they were decloaked through sexism.

22:35:16 mircea_popescu: saifedean yes. for that matter, the bitcoin conference is in april.

22:35:19 mircea_popescu: $conference

22:35:20 empyex: mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 5 months and 8 days. Estimated cost today: 3.74478709 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )

22:36:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14146 @ 0.00056652 = 8.014 BTC [-]

22:36:46 saifedean: much as i'd love to be in the conference, april might be tough, especially as i'm so goddamn far, but i'll let you know if i manage to work out jan/feb

22:37:30 saifedean: but if you like buenos aires and istanbul, from what i gather from your blog, you will absolutely love beirut... who's like istanbul's little prettier sister

22:38:07 mircea_popescu: yes.

22:38:14 mircea_popescu: problem being she hangs out with all these bikers.

22:40:53 mircea_popescu: Naphex on a related note, i really don't get all these derps going "oh you know what ? i'll run a hertzner vm through this magic layer. presto, totally anon!"

22:46:25 saifedean: you lay down the law and the bikers disappear, mp... just book your ticket

23:08:28 ben_vulpes: ;;ident saifedean

23:08:28 gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.

23:08:29 mircea_popescu: lol

23:13:14 JorgePasada: Anyone have any good reading on all the stuff that's been happening with tor because of this latest raid thing?

23:16:14 dub: i think the learning is (or was since years ago) don't use tor

23:16:53 JorgePasada: Yeah, not for anything secure obviously, but you can still learn from stuff like this I feel

23:18:50 dub: you can learn not to do anything on a network that you wouldnt be happy with obama reading

23:19:41 ben_vulpes: http://www.entropykey.co.uk/ << more entropy hardware, ARM micros included!

23:19:42 assbot: Simtec Electronics Entropy Key: USB True Random Number Generator

23:21:06 dub: oh my god the new firefox ui is terrible

23:21:21 dub: they need to share that good weed around

23:26:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27206 @ 0.00056708 = 15.428 BTC [+] {2}