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Transcript for 10-01-2015, 879 lines:

00:05:26 mircea_popescu: it prolly is mutual at that.

00:15:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00065754 = 2.0713 BTC [+]

00:17:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12034 @ 0.00065754 = 7.9128 BTC [+]

00:18:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2599 @ 0.00066027 = 1.716 BTC [+]

00:22:33 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

00:22:58 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/

00:23:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15334 @ 0.00066036 = 10.126 BTC [+] {2}

00:25:44 PeterL: you know, you could pm him -fetch

00:25:52 BingoBoingo: Really?

00:25:58 PeterL: yeah

00:26:16 mircea_popescu: i recall reading that yeah

00:26:40 BingoBoingo: Cool

00:26:50 PeterL: if you pm him, you don't need to include scoopbot, just -fetch

00:28:16 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/rleY22W.png

00:28:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMswc1 )

00:28:42 kakobrekla: !s fetch from:kakobrekla

00:28:43 assbot: 8 results for 'fetch from:kakobrekla' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fetch+from%3Akakobrekla

00:28:53 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2015#966068

00:28:53 assbot: Logged on 05-01-2015 17:57:08; kakobrekla: i dont get this scoopbot 30 min delay + fetch command. when i setup rss feed for herr vulpes jenkins (which is now offline for some reason) i hit it once a minute cause i give no fucks. no need for this -fetch nonsense if you change the interval to something saner.

00:29:04 kakobrekla: and few lines more.

00:29:59 cazalla: i don't know if anyone saw that ipad game that pays out 0.0001.. i fucked around with it for an hour or so and earned 0.0003, i'm sure some indian is setting up a sweatshop to farm it 24/7 as we speak

00:30:20 BingoBoingo: lol

00:30:34 asciilifeform: cazalla: this kind of thing has been done in the past; e.g., amazon corp's 'mechanical turk'

00:31:10 PeterL: what do you do in this game to earn it?

00:31:53 cazalla: asciilifeform, but this app pays out the moment it awards you, i'm trying to think of a homer simpson drinking bird means of doing it but no go

00:32:29 asciilifeform: cazalla: instrumented emulator.

00:33:18 cazalla: PeterL, you throw a monkey as far as you can plus the dev alleges he will use the in-game adsense type revenue to purchase more bitcoin and increase the bitcoin payouts for users https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bxTbByVkQ

00:33:20 assbot: SaruTobi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMtDIN )

00:34:11 davout: PeterL: could you add http://fr.anco.is to scoopbot?

00:34:13 assbot: fr.anco.is | bitcoin et al. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMtMvO )

00:34:29 cazalla: you wouldn't bother playing it for the payouts but i'm sure someone for who $2 a day is a lot would find it worthwhile

00:37:46 PeterL: davout sure

00:38:08 davout: ty!

00:44:05 mircea_popescu: cazalla $2 a day can't be a lot if you're stuck with a $500 piece of machinery + the bills for its maintenance.

00:44:28 asciilifeform: unless the $500 machine emulates 100,000 click-idiots

00:44:35 cazalla: steal one from whitey

00:44:43 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02KJQCR.txt )

00:44:43 BingoBoingo: !b 3

00:45:58 PeterL: davout: let me know if your posts don't show up

00:47:30 kakobrekla: actually i can just make assbot pm scoopbot 'fetch' every 30 seconds and noone will ever know i fixed it.

00:47:42 mircea_popescu: lmao

00:48:01 mircea_popescu: PeterL how often does it scan feeds anyway ?

00:48:19 mircea_popescu: can it be set so it scans every minute, on a diff second by the blog list ?

00:48:28 PeterL: kakobrekla: scoopbot is set to check blogs every 5 minutes, some people are impatient

00:48:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is 5 minutes too slo ?!

00:49:01 mircea_popescu: i thought it was like a half hour

00:50:24 kakobrekla: i just find the whole fetch command thing silly.

00:50:48 PeterL: I think it might have been 15 minutes when I first made it?

00:50:57 kakobrekla: possibru

00:51:09 PeterL: well, cazalla asked for it, and it seemed easy enough to include

00:51:17 kakobrekla: 5 is better i guess idk rss sucks scam

00:51:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla srsly polling much more frequently than that's just a waste.

00:52:16 kakobrekla: yes there is only 20 years of internets left to go around

00:52:22 kakobrekla: use it slowly.

00:55:58 mircea_popescu: eh the world will live for five minutes at a stretch.

00:56:20 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/

00:57:14 mircea_popescu: PeterL i even excluded your parser from teh branding programme

00:57:33 PeterL: branding program?

00:58:23 BingoBoingo: Branding Pogrom?

00:59:23 mircea_popescu: if you look at the feeds they start with a token which describes the parser for my use

00:59:36 mircea_popescu: i used it extensively in the 2010-2011 period to identify and ban content spinners

00:59:43 mircea_popescu: haven't had a problem since.

01:00:28 PeterL: Is that what that garbledy gook is at the start of the feed summary is?

01:00:32 mircea_popescu: yeah

01:00:45 PeterL: EG "NjkuMTYyLjY0Ljgy What's anon talking about ?"

01:01:03 mircea_popescu: yes

01:01:35 PeterL: so that tell you what parser accessed your site?

01:02:44 mircea_popescu: yes.

01:03:19 mircea_popescu: then if i see my stuff republished on mfa farms/whatever later on, it's trivial to ban the leech.

01:03:51 PeterL: aha, I see. please don't ban me

01:07:52 mircea_popescu: no the reverse.

01:07:58 mircea_popescu: it shouldn't pop in your feeds no more.

01:08:16 asciilifeform: http://www-library.desy.de/preparch/books/death-rays.pdf << no, not really plaintextable. but interesting.

01:08:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4ICzd )

01:09:21 PeterL: "NDkxNDIwODUyMDg4fDY5LjE2Mi42NC44Mg== What's anon talking about" I think it got longer?

01:09:24 asciilifeform: (the first work i've chanced into on this subject, in many years, that isn't a regurgitation of old, tired pablum)

01:10:20 mircea_popescu: uhm.

01:10:34 asciilifeform: it's actually about embezzlement

01:10:40 asciilifeform: of reichsmarks, naturally

01:10:48 asciilifeform: 'for science!'

01:11:03 mircea_popescu: PeterL you actually using multiple ips ?!

01:11:20 asciilifeform: decimation, ben_vulpes, undata ^ recommended reading

01:11:26 PeterL: well, there are two, one for the scoopbot and one for the blog agregator

01:11:56 mircea_popescu: well they got whitelisted both.

01:13:19 PeterL: is that going to take some time to take effect?

01:13:54 mircea_popescu: as soon as varnish catches on, i guess.

01:19:25 punkman: asciilifeform genuinely wonderf wtf happened to deedbot 2 << lack of hosting admin, mostly

01:19:37 punkman: mircea_popescu: punkman is off the deedbot project after the horrid failure of the past month << I accept that

01:20:28 PeterL: punkman: you are saying the thing works, you just need a server to run it on?

01:21:08 punkman: no it needs a sysadmin for the server, plenty of servers to be had

01:21:53 punkman: Azelphur offered to do it couple of days ago, but too late I guess

01:25:37 PeterL: asciilifeform: your linked death-ray pdf, in text: http://nopdf.btcscoop.com/data/29ye5N

01:25:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4MLmG )

01:26:07 asciilifeform: PeterL: considerably less interesting without illustrations. and mangled formatting.

01:26:23 asciilifeform: PeterL: the 'it's still a turd, not sausage, even with relish' principle applies even here.

01:26:57 asciilifeform: PeterL: and we all have 'pdf2txt' or the like on our boxes. it isn't a solution.

01:29:32 undata: asciilifeform: thank you sir; I will

01:29:41 PeterL: " bullets with enormous electric charges would be accelerated in a special valve and emmited with several times the velocity of light." <<< lol

01:30:41 asciilifeform: PeterL: at the time, various folks (including mr. t) were experimenting with electron tubes of various descriptions. t claimed to have one 'open to the air' on one end (!)

01:30:45 asciilifeform: !s valvular conduit

01:30:45 assbot: 0 results for 'valvular conduit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=valvular+conduit

01:30:51 asciilifeform: ;;google valvular conduit

01:30:51 gribble: Nikola Tesla'sValvular Conduit best video - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhJtSqLz88Q; Tesla valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve; Nikola Tesla's "Valvular Conduit" -- The Tesla Gas Turbine Patent: http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/1329559.htm

01:31:10 asciilifeform: you can build one. it sort-of works.

01:31:23 asciilifeform: about 1/3 greater velocity of flow in one direction than another.

01:31:54 decimation: asciilifeform: "Germán Armando Plett’s knowledge was scraped together from the ‘Deutsche La Plata Zeitung’ (German La Plata Newspaper) and the nightly German radio broadcasts he was devoted to." << shortwave broadcast is dying, I guess because internet

01:32:21 asciilifeform: decimation: don't be so quick to bury it. there's plenty on the air - just not in english.

01:33:37 decimation: deutsche welle, in particular, doesn't broadcast in german anymore (to my knowledge)

01:33:54 decimation: I think Russia still operates their Russian foreign broadcast service

01:34:01 decimation: So does China

01:34:25 asciilifeform: sw is 'the spare internet.'

01:34:30 asciilifeform: best to not forget it entirely.

01:35:18 decimation: the problem is that the 'image' of shortwave is AM broadcast, but nothing prevents advanced digital schemes

01:35:59 asciilifeform: aside from atrocious 'lossiness' - but this is where highly-efficient 'graceful degradation' schemes like fountain-coding come in.

01:36:49 asciilifeform: (using the latter, conceivably, you might leave your receiver running for three days and in the end a light comes on; and then you can hear an hour-long broadcast.)

01:36:54 PeterL: how high of bandwidth could you transmit over shortwave?

01:36:56 decimation: well, it's not just the high noise - it's also the terrible multipath that arises due to ionospheric propagation

01:37:11 decimation: but multipath can also be an advantage...

01:37:56 decimation: PeterL: a 'standard' shortwave channel is 4 kHz in width, through which you can push maybe a few kilobits/sec depending on what kind of scheme you are using

01:39:34 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (using the latter, conceivably, you might leave your receiver running for three days and in the end a light comes on; and then you can hear an hour-long broadcast.) << could leave it right to the rainfall collecting bucket

01:39:38 mircea_popescu: and listen to it while you bathe.

01:40:00 asciilifeform: ^ aha.

01:40:32 asciilifeform: (pessimistically)

01:40:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, it may be that the entanglement experiments come to fruition, and shortwave as well as the current telco version of internet become obsolete at the same time.

01:41:00 mircea_popescu: instead, people having in their house the quantum equiv of gossipd

01:41:05 decimation: asciilifeform: herr shannon's limit ultimately governs your ability to push bits through a channel

01:41:20 mircea_popescu: (incidentally, that's kind of what that's designed with in mind. if we get quantum boxes, gossipd will be the killer app for it)

01:41:36 asciilifeform: decimation: more prosaically, details like sunspot cycle and whether you are being jammed (deliberately or otherwise)

01:41:53 asciilifeform: entanglement << dicy, as it mostly entails ftl

01:42:00 mircea_popescu: quite dicy yes

01:42:03 decimation: indeed, as well as fine-grained details like your latitude, time of day, solar flares, etc

01:42:41 mircea_popescu: but that'll happen before "quantumcomputing" of any description, so...

01:43:09 decimation: if anyone is interested in simulation, usg publishes a free software package to simulate shortwave paths: http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html

01:43:10 assbot: VOACAP Online - professional-grade high-frequency (3-30 MHz) point-to-point propagation predictions ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4R1mm )

01:43:16 asciilifeform: entanglement diddling makes exotica like gravimetric comms, neutrino beam (!), etc. look realistic.

01:43:22 decimation: (that is a web 2.0 'front end' to the prediction program

01:45:51 PeterL: would 3-d printing help in manufacturing on of those tesla valves?

01:47:13 asciilifeform: btw entanglement to transmit rng to two ends is sop

01:47:28 mircea_popescu: kinda what quantum noise means

01:47:44 asciilifeform: (transmit synchronously)

01:57:50 BingoBoingo: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/01/lizard-stresser-runs-on-hacked-home-routers/

01:57:52 assbot: Lizard Stresser Runs on Hacked Home Routers — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZBt1L )

01:58:12 BingoBoingo: No surprises

02:00:50 mircea_popescu: heh. what's per pps cost ? or how do they price ?

02:01:39 BingoBoingo: Haven't looked.

02:02:33 mircea_popescu: "The botnet is not made entirely of home routers; some of the infected hosts appear to be commercial routers at universities and companies"

02:02:49 mircea_popescu: orly. im sure they're "commercial" in a sense other than, "moar bezzle"

02:02:56 asciilifeform: like most chumpnets.

02:05:12 mircea_popescu: "While you?re monkeying around with your router setting, consider changing the router?s default DNS servers to those maintained by OpenDNS."

02:05:30 mircea_popescu: it's funny how these write-ups never fail to include some call or other to "join the horde"

02:06:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally they invite you to use google's dns (8.8.8.8)

02:06:28 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0E4842G.txt )

02:06:28 BingoBoingo: !b 3

02:06:35 mircea_popescu: the agenda of computing security is moved towards increased pwnability in the exact same way and for the exact same reasons the agenda of political discussion is moved towards increasing socialism.

02:07:17 asciilifeform: there isn't a 'good' dns, though. the very concept is a kind of contradiction, like a pleasant jail

02:07:28 asciilifeform: one can picture a terrible, mexican jail

02:07:44 asciilifeform: and a very demented isp with malignantly spamwildcardy dns

02:07:48 asciilifeform: but not 'good'

02:08:13 mircea_popescu: but one can readily understand why a verizon for dns is worse than any alternative.

02:08:59 asciilifeform: i'm told that other major telcos in usa have something not unlike it.

02:11:47 asciilifeform: mega-lol!! :

02:11:50 asciilifeform: 'hackforums'

02:12:06 asciilifeform: anyone who wants a good laugh, should visit the site

02:12:29 asciilifeform: these folks actually -buy- malware from one another

02:12:37 asciilifeform: and 'installs' (i.e. chumps)

02:13:07 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/10K1DFP.txt )

02:13:07 BingoBoingo: !b 4

02:13:09 asciilifeform: often, even when source for xxxx is available, an idiot will pay (good money) to have 'a build'

02:13:35 mircea_popescu: why not ?

02:13:38 asciilifeform: spammers abound, offering 'installs' or soliciting to spam by the pound

02:14:13 []bot: Bet placed: 4.72760085 BTC for Yes on "Cardano to Ship in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1100/ Odds: 83(Y):17(N) by coin, 83(Y):17(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.97039888 BTC. Current weight: 99,745.

02:14:41 asciilifeform: sites like 'hackforum' are probably responsible for the 'man on the street' believing that there are vast oceans of money in crapware

02:15:14 asciilifeform: whereas many if not most of the folks involved have little intention (or ability) to pay the promised sums, or deliver, in many cases, the goods

02:16:04 asciilifeform: (some - do, sure; but adding up all of the 'puts' and 'asks', if you will, at face value, is still naive)

02:16:10 mircea_popescu: re http://bitbet.us/bet/1100/cardano-to-ship-in-2015/#b5 : after an ad-hoc consultation half hour ago, the s.nsa board authorised a 4.72760085 BTC bet on the delivery side (1% of s.nsa equity).

02:16:10 assbot: BitBet - Cardano to Ship in 2015 :: 4.93 B (83%) on Yes, 1.04 B (17%) on No | closing in 11 months 1 week| weight: 99`744 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZCXZY )

02:16:10 mircea_popescu: i

02:16:21 asciilifeform: ^

02:16:30 mircea_popescu: i'm counting it as a marketing expense, unless we win, in which case hey, free money.

02:18:01 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/ for background

02:18:02 assbot: The positive market effects of the delivery bet. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDb3j )

02:18:37 asciilifeform: 'Based on information provided by A.B., the Secret Service used facial recognition to identify Jack Farrel as Ryan Andrew Gustafson.?' (krebs)

02:18:45 decimation: lol ascii did you put your last bitcoin on 'no'?

02:18:48 asciilifeform: funny how this mostly slipped by

02:18:58 asciilifeform: decimation: lol!

02:20:44 mircea_popescu: who was jack farrell

02:20:57 asciilifeform: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/12/alleged-counterfeiter-willy-clock-arrested

02:20:59 assbot: Alleged Counterfeiter “Willy Clock” Arrested — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDoU5 )

02:21:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5407 @ 0.00066646 = 3.6035 BTC [+]

02:22:03 []bot: Bet created: "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/

02:23:06 decimation: lol "According to the government’s complaint (PDF), the email address that Gustafson provided on his U.S. passport application was the same one he allegedly used to maintain a Facebook account under the Jack Farrel alias."

02:23:18 asciilifeform: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/07/even-script-kids-have-a-right-to-be-forgotten << another lol from krebs, re: 'hackforum'

02:23:21 assbot: Even Script Kids Have a Right to Be Forgotten — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDyLa )

02:23:25 BingoBoingo: A Poetteringism http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg204236.html

02:23:26 assbot: Fedora Development -- Re: timedatex replacing systemd-timedated for NTP packages ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDB9X )

02:25:14 danielpbarron: !up beautyon

02:25:59 beautyon: So it's war then.

02:26:13 BingoBoingo: Yeah

02:27:06 BingoBoingo: This war was foretold long ago http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-tundra-artichoke-from-frozen-hell/

02:27:07 assbot: The tundra artichoke from frozen hell. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDScW )

02:28:06 mircea_popescu: lolwut

02:28:41 mircea_popescu: wtf bs "right to be forgotten". there's no such right, unless they're forgotten they're remembered.

02:29:09 beautyon: The enemy must be contacting all the miners in private to get them to switch. Or is that irrelevant?

02:29:30 decimation: the romans tried damnatio memoriae

02:29:36 decimation: didn't work very well

02:29:48 asciilifeform: the phrase is, i think, a reference to an eu-ism

02:30:17 asciilifeform: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/right-to-be-forgotten

02:30:19 assbot: Right to be forgotten | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZE8bU )

02:30:46 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo am i thick or is the answer about as related to what it quotes as gavin's "covered" is related to economy ?

02:31:03 BingoBoingo: !up Percy_Montesquie

02:31:09 mircea_popescu: beautyon even if a vast majority of miners switch it still doesn't do anything for him.

02:31:44 mircea_popescu: doubt they will. some pool ops might be clueless enough to try and hijack the network to please gavin/usg, but that's ok, they'll get shot later.

02:32:18 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm just building a metaphor based on Past fraudsters posts which is surprising easy when you write as much as you. I figure the Tundra artichokes can be worked into a sort of Tarqin/Poppy reference.

02:32:27 mircea_popescu: lol

02:32:39 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov << Yezhov was friends with Stalin

02:32:41 assbot: Nikolai Yezhov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZElM0 )

02:32:48 mircea_popescu: i had plainly forgotten that article, imagine my surprise when i see an unfamilir title called up and the server actually respond.

02:34:21 beautyon: mircea_popescu: Surely he must know in that case that he cannot possibly win and this change will be rejected. It means forsaking control of the future direction of the standard and ceding it to you.

02:34:32 BingoBoingo: Well isn't that what fraudsters's for. So you can save your memory's immediate recall juice for more pressing issues.

02:35:09 BingoBoingo: beautyon: Gavin really doesn't even seem to like Bitcoin that much anymore.

02:36:37 beautyon: BingoBoingo: Then he should walk away. Unless he _likes_ being a lightning rod.

02:37:11 BingoBoingo: beautyon: Well he can't quit without becoming a nobody so he prolly figures he might as well try to kill the thing himself.

02:38:59 mircea_popescu: beautyon i don't think you understand how the us politico mind works.

02:39:05 beautyon: BingoBoingo: I actually believe that might be true on a subconscious level. Astonishing.

02:39:18 mircea_popescu: as far as they're concerned, any stupidity they try is ok, "nobody could have foreseen it won't work" and it's putin's fault.

02:39:32 BingoBoingo: beautyon: If you want a historical thing similarly sank by mircea_popescu http://fraudsters.com/2013/soft-consensus-aka-fecal-matter/

02:39:33 assbot: Soft consensus, aka fecal matter. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZETl2 )

02:39:36 mircea_popescu: i fully expect them to try, fail, and then spend the next six months writing how mp is a scammer all over reddit/the boy's bathroom

02:39:49 BingoBoingo: ;;google stock exchange holders on welfare

02:39:50 gribble: The Implications of Limited Stock Market Participation for ...: http://166.111.7.37/Upload/file/20140110/20140110165337_8607.pdf; How Shareholders Are Hurting America - ProPublica: http://www.propublica.org/thetrade/item/how-shareholders-are-hurting-america; Real Output OF Stock Exchange.pdf - Stanford University: (1 more message)

02:40:05 BingoBoingo: ;;google site:fraudsters.com stock exchange holders on welfare

02:40:05 gribble: The stockexchange shareholders on welfare pe fraudsters - Un blog ...: http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/

02:41:38 mircea_popescu: i don't know that vessenes' happy scamfarm is or ever was involved in anything to do with standards.

02:41:58 mircea_popescu: for that matter, bitcoin does have a standards body, http://thebitcoin.foundation/

02:41:59 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykJZq5 )

02:42:48 beautyon: mircea_popescu: as long as it stays on Reddit that's fine. They had better prepare to back down quickly, or suffer losses. Sadly these feeble men run to the courts habitually which may or may not be a nuisance.

02:43:05 mircea_popescu: eh, you need money for that.

02:43:25 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 92(Y):8(N) by coin, 92(Y):8(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,962.

02:43:44 mircea_popescu: vessenes' outta dough, the rest of the scammers involved are barely solvent and burried under tons of lawsuits (karpeles, caleb, ver, kenna, you name it)

02:44:18 mircea_popescu: they recently announced "they will focus on btc core", ie, "we can't afford anything past gavin's salary". and not even that for all of 2015.

02:44:26 mircea_popescu: so... it's a wart in full process of taking care of itself.

02:44:46 decimation: I wonder why there is so much action against gold

02:45:48 beautyon: Andressen, Wilson, Brito: two multi millionaire Statists and a Washington wonk, hell bent on the law. It will be interesting to see if they are for fork / suicide.

02:46:36 mircea_popescu: what wilson ? cody ?!

02:46:52 beautyon: If only!

02:47:38 joecool: mircea_popescu: nice domain for the foundation, did you guys actually fix 0.5.3 to fetch all blocks???

02:47:57 mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 reported that this is now the case

02:48:04 mircea_popescu: in the most recent monthly address

02:48:21 mircea_popescu: beautyon who then ? that guy with a blog, whatever it was called ?

02:48:30 beautyon: https://twitter.com/fredwilson/status/552496826646278146

02:48:32 assbot: 2/ the answer is not to ignore them or fight them. the answer is to educate them, inform them, and work with them

02:49:18 mircea_popescu: o, that dood. *shrug*

02:49:27 BingoBoingo: Ah, the comedian

02:49:35 mircea_popescu: i have my doubts he's allowed to commit anything past words in this matter.

02:50:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, he's welcome to participate in bitcoin just as soon as he completes his log reading stage and persuades anyone his head's not full of straw.

02:51:32 beautyon: Their loss of control is going to harden their attitudes. I can't wait to see them squirm.

02:53:40 BingoBoingo: They never really had control of anything.

02:53:54 mircea_popescu: beautyon anyway, for a very instructive example of how the courts work for bitcoin "captn's of industry", there's that recent hashfast debacle

02:53:55 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/hashfast-or-why-the-fiat-legal-system-doesnt-actually-exist-and-doesnt-actually-matter/

02:53:56 assbot: HashFast - or why the fiat legal system doesn't actually exist and doesn't actually matter pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZFUK5 )

02:55:59 danielpbarron: !up beautyon

02:56:04 beautyon: BingoBoingo: That realization will make them even MOAR furious. They are out of time, and these silly associations are window dressing at best.

02:57:28 BingoBoingo: beautyon: I don't see how they could not know. I mean they can't even get their favorite to stop bleeding because they pay $145/CPM for TV marketing

02:58:33 mircea_popescu: yeah, a lot of ground has been lost since the hearn attack.

02:58:37 mircea_popescu: wasn't such a smart move, that.

02:59:21 mircea_popescu: and for that matter, i marked mtgox for death in april, they struggled to prop it for six months before abandoning it ignominously, i do not believe they do not know they can not stand.

02:59:37 mircea_popescu: the half or so that's left, anyway.

03:00:01 mircea_popescu: actually... quarter i guess. buncha people left last year too didn't they. is murky boy still involved ?

03:01:08 BingoBoingo: Murckckkck left the Fundnation

03:01:37 BingoBoingo: Because he just wanted to lobby

03:01:50 mircea_popescu: ah ok.

03:02:09 beautyon: That HashFast schmuck had good lawyers.

03:02:17 mircea_popescu: beautyon hardly.

03:02:23 mircea_popescu: you don't pay good lawyers out of 50k a year.

03:02:32 mircea_popescu: wait no. 50k net worth and 500 a month.

03:03:03 beautyon: But didn't he just walk away essentially?

03:03:41 BingoBoingo: Oh he got the whole farm

03:03:43 mircea_popescu: this is the rule in corp bankruptcy proceedings as administered in the us

03:04:01 mircea_popescu: you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer.

03:04:06 mod6: <+joecool> mircea_popescu: nice domain for the foundation, did you guys actually fix 0.5.3 to fetch all blocks??? << yup.

03:04:58 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer. << Personal bankruptcy differs in that you get a lawyer because it compells phone spam aggro to their number and not yours

03:05:24 mircea_popescu: sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets.

03:05:40 decimation: personal bankruptcy is basically a well-oiled chumpatron

03:05:47 joecool: mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr)

03:06:34 mircea_popescu: lol

03:06:38 mod6: :D

03:07:53 BingoBoingo: <joecool> mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr) << He prolly has a historical version of his patch set s should be fine with it.

03:08:37 BingoBoingo: !up shovel_boss_

03:08:59 beautyon: By the way, are you going to publish a low level guide to warn everyone thinking about "upgrading" to the fork? Forearmed is forearmed.

03:09:04 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets. << Nah, you get the lawyer in personal ESPECIALLY when you don't have assets

03:09:22 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i meant in terms of getting raped.

03:09:26 mircea_popescu: beautyon you could.

03:09:56 BingoBoingo: beautyon: mircea_popescu laid out basics, but more guides written differently could help more innocents get the picture http://fraudsters.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/

03:09:56 assbot: If you go on a Bitcoin fork, irrespective which scammer proposes it, you will lose your Bitcoins. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZHeMT )

03:10:14 beautyon: I'll do it.

03:10:41 joecool: mod6: are there plans to patch things like change predictability?

03:12:34 mircea_popescu: joecool CVE-2013-2273 you mean ?

03:12:42 joecool: yes

03:13:48 mircea_popescu: weren't they working on 5.9 ?

03:14:55 joecool: 0.5.3 is the version linked on thebitcoin.foundation

03:15:54 mircea_popescu: right you are.

03:16:07 mircea_popescu: i shall let teh experts comment.

03:19:25 mod6: joecool: not at this time, but that might get added to the list at some point.

03:21:09 mod6: the list is getting lengthy, but we're not going anywhere, so we've got time.

03:22:33 joecool: cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this?

03:22:42 asciilifeform: mod6: here's something i was gonna put in 'chicken' (init patch) but somehow forgot: version string.

03:23:11 asciilifeform: mod6: presently it spits out the traditional one. perhaps this should change at some point.

03:23:24 mod6: joecool: here's a guide to submitting a patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000022.html

03:23:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZIu2B )

03:24:13 mod6: if persons submitting patches do not have L2 trust with assbot they may be submitted directly to me, and I will review. and will probably have to sponsor said patch myself.

03:25:06 joecool: nah shouldn't be a problem, i have L2

03:25:20 joecool: format looks easy enough to follow, cool

03:25:23 mod6: yup, shouldn't be an issue for you. we'd love the help.

03:26:21 mod6: asciilifeform: ah ok. hmm. well, too late to go back and edit the 1st patch. but i guess you can submit another that resolves that issue.

03:26:26 []bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,885.

03:26:34 *: mod6 looks

03:26:41 asciilifeform: mod6: i'm leaving this for the folks actually involved

03:26:52 asciilifeform: one of you will have to pick the new string.

03:27:13 *: asciilifeform just wanted a fscking hardcopy of bitcoind

03:27:14 mircea_popescu: joecool> cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this? << definitely that part.

03:27:17 mircea_popescu: send to the list, signed.

03:27:55 mod6: asciilifeform: sure. ben & myself were just discussing this yesterday actually. heh. not sure what this version will be called yet.

03:28:14 mod6: might be v0.5.3.1

03:28:21 asciilifeform: change predictability << personally i'd like to see the problem solved in the civilized way. i.e. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-10-2014#890278

03:28:21 assbot: Logged on 23-10-2014 05:06:33; asciilifeform: decimation: in my (now very old) plan for rewrite, there were to be two machines

03:29:00 asciilifeform: walletron doesn't belong in the net stack. or on that box at all.

03:29:12 mircea_popescu: someone refresh me on what exactly that vuln was anyway ?

03:29:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7056 @ 0.00066962 = 4.7248 BTC [+]

03:31:27 asciilifeform: the entirely nonsensical way in which the client decides what to do with 'change'.

03:34:02 mircea_popescu: so what you can spend other people's change ?

03:34:11 mircea_popescu: iirc that was due to a bad hardware "rng"

03:34:12 asciilifeform: neh that wasn't it

03:34:17 asciilifeform: that was another one.

03:34:48 asciilifeform: (the duplicate nonce thing)

03:35:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3264 @ 0.00066802 = 2.1804 BTC [-]

03:35:41 mircea_popescu: joecool do you recall what that cvs actually did ?

03:36:27 asciilifeform: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462046

03:36:30 assbot: Bug 462046 – net-p2p/bitcoind, net-p2p/bitcoin-qt: multiple vulnerabilities (CVE-2013-{2272,2273,2292,2293}) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZJG6c )

03:37:19 mircea_popescu: 2293 i recall was a retarded dos that had about 0 practical use

03:37:20 asciilifeform: anyone else puzzled that nowhere on the net - including above 'canonical' page - tells us wtf it did, in detail ?

03:38:07 asciilifeform: my sole recollections are from a brief discussion here, i think.

03:38:24 mircea_popescu: i dunno why but drawing a blank

03:39:25 asciilifeform: the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable'

03:41:16 joecool: i guess should look and see how they patched the behavior

03:41:41 asciilifeform: the whole cve paradigm is pure nsa, incidentally

03:41:58 asciilifeform: a 'chinese encyclopaedia' of, for the most part, mystery meats

03:42:12 mircea_popescu: but since we're discussing this, CVE-2013-2292 is still not fixed ?

03:42:12 asciilifeform: with 'the full dirt' presumably stowed away somewhere far.

03:42:19 mircea_popescu: (the take forever to verify tx thing)

03:42:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yteah i am quite unhappy with an' suspicious of the current avenues for fixing "open source" software.

03:43:30 asciilifeform: this goes beyond the merely suspicious or ill-reputed, but is shitgnomery plain as daylight

03:44:18 asciilifeform: cve is the sec. research equivalent of the 1990s 'winamp playlist' (who remembers these ?)

03:44:43 mircea_popescu: i still have them

03:44:53 mircea_popescu: how do YOU listen to music ?

03:44:59 asciilifeform: 'mplayer'

03:45:14 asciilifeform: (cmd line proggy)

03:45:37 asciilifeform: but the playlists in question were a fashion where kids posted them on their 'look i have a w3bs1t311111'

03:45:54 asciilifeform: but no warez behind the names, naturally

03:46:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, a point of strategy, which i think everyone'll appreciate cuz it's lulzy. so : the scam foundation and its merry band of power rangers have very carefully constructed this situation where "nobody knows" what's what and whence it came and where it's going, because they (wrongly) perceived that ownership of an opaque codebase will guarantee them control and continued relevance.

03:47:10 mircea_popescu: the problem with this approach is that once challenged, they can not i nfact produce a list of what they did.

03:47:34 mircea_popescu: outside of handwaves and "it has been covered in previous posts", three years of "development" can readily be discarded and nobody'd know the difference.

03:48:11 mircea_popescu: how's that for irony.

03:48:34 asciilifeform: they could try to worm out of this tight spot by coughing up a 'wunderwaffen'

03:48:39 asciilifeform: but it seems doubtful

03:49:21 asciilifeform: incidentally, 'disregard x years and you'll never see the difference' is sop on usg projects.

03:52:07 joecool: !up xe4l

03:52:44 xe4l: thanks

03:53:03 xe4l: http://onerng.info/ new rng someone passed along

03:53:04 assbot: OneRNG - Hardware Random Number Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXFwJE )

03:53:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you have any idea what sort of work's involved in coughing up wunderwaffen that weren't planned for ?

03:53:20 asciilifeform: !s onerng

03:53:21 assbot: 4 results for 'onerng' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=onerng

03:53:27 asciilifeform: discussed in detail.

03:53:30 mircea_popescu: xe4l was mentioned b4

03:53:32 xe4l: rgr ty

03:53:46 asciilifeform: xe4l: do read the linked threads.

03:54:20 xe4l: already reviewing

03:54:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wunderwaffen that doesn't have to defeat the enemy, but look impressibe - is a little easier.

03:54:34 asciilifeform: *impressive

03:54:40 mircea_popescu: considering whom it has to look impressive to...

03:54:45 mircea_popescu: defeating enemy prolly easier.

03:55:25 asciilifeform: at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ?

03:55:36 asciilifeform: unless they have a replacement muppet brigade on hot spare

03:55:48 mircea_popescu: what do you think this is, some sort of wh fast tracked project ?

03:56:15 asciilifeform: by the looks of it, probably a 'they showed up' kind of affair

03:58:12 decimation: what would a 'wunderwaffen' even be like? some kind of fatal bug they secretly fixed?

03:58:33 asciilifeform: decimation: neh. something more like a 'new, shiny, xxxxx' reimplementation in $trendylang

03:58:48 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ? << Hearding 101. If the sheep don't want to move on you let them get hungry in their overgrazed pasture. Makes them more receptive to new grass.

03:59:28 asciilifeform: ^ relevant: http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/39/main/2/13982.jpg

03:59:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXGK7C )

03:59:41 asciilifeform: (re: general chumpatronics. begs to be photodiddled.)

03:59:41 decimation: asciilifeform: based on their current work 'output' that scenario seems very unlikely

04:00:14 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: pretty much

04:00:21 asciilifeform: the muppets' work? sure. handlers? could extract it (from where? don't look at me) and put in their hands

04:00:30 asciilifeform: like stone tablets to moses

04:01:14 BingoBoingo: It's systemd all over again. Work is their enemy. Enemy is merely interested in producing anti-work.

04:01:19 xe4l: in review, onerng pros: cheap, shielded cons: hobbyist level device, design flaws

04:01:32 asciilifeform: !s spreading works

04:01:33 assbot: 19 results for 'spreading works' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spreading+works

04:01:34 decimation: lol yeah that poster is hilarious. the best cattle *volunteer* for the bioreactor

04:02:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2014#802309

04:02:01 assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 06:37:37; asciilifeform: soviet scientist declares, 'we've invented a shit-to-food converter.' 'does it work?' 'sorta. spreading on bread: worlks!!11! eating - not quite yet.'

04:02:06 asciilifeform: xe4l ^

04:02:56 xe4l: hahahahaha

04:02:59 BingoBoingo: Related: We just detected that you?re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama.

04:03:33 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ?

04:04:07 asciilifeform: (appears to be a logical inference here? llama was voted up?)

04:04:19 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah. Bitcoin accepting merchant "Okcupid". Simply probing a data aggregator that happens to accept BTC.

04:06:52 xe4l: anyone using traffic creation software to mask activity? Eg: all internet connectivity from residence is routed out vpn(s), using QOS and traffic simulation software you maintain say 10mbit worth of various traffic (replaying or creating all relevant encapsulated protocols in use) with a low QOS setting such that your consumption is undetectable?

04:07:13 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Related: We just detected that you?re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama. << ahahaha wut.

04:07:25 asciilifeform: xe4l: let's imagine we were. wouldn't discussing it here defeat the purpose of the exercise ?

04:07:42 xe4l: in this context, not really actually

04:07:55 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ? << it's not a zoophile site. it's a women's site.

04:08:01 asciilifeform: xe4l: were you here for the 'buried treasure' thread ?

04:08:10 xe4l: negative

04:08:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf

04:08:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nominally they accept Bitcoin and the same founders also made the Keybase.io thing. Gotta see if the average man on it looks worse than an ungulate.

04:08:38 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://fraudsters.com/2015/heres-part-n-of-our-endless-saga-aptly-titled-the-people-know-shit-or-alternatively-nothings-dumber-than-the-voice-in-the-crowd/#comment-111340 he's right isn't he ? 1400 btc the most ever bet in a single bet on bitbet innit ?

04:08:39 assbot: Here's part n of our endless saga, aptly titled "The People Know Shit" or alternatively "Nothing's Dumber Than The Voice In The Crowd". pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUMssM )

04:09:20 xe4l: !s buried treasure

04:09:21 assbot: 10 results for 'buried treasure' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buried+treasure

04:09:21 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf << Site in question kept my dick wet through Library school.

04:10:04 mircea_popescu: xe4l there's a deeper point involved here. stealth does not work in and of itself, as a strategy. if you want safety, you deploy an army. if you want to play the stealthy, you attach yourself to something with an army.

04:10:21 xe4l: I'm quite aware of Opsec

04:10:21 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But since the founders made the Keybase abomination, I want to find out how much their original venture lies

04:10:57 xe4l: it's trivial to detect if someone is or isn't doing what I described, it's merely a layer to mask activity inside of a segment

04:11:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402 << buried treasure thread. instructive.

04:11:15 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom

04:11:15 xe4l: talking about how you deal with protocol timing attacks would go more with the buried treasure opsec concept

04:13:02 kakobrekla: yes, good to know it works with numbers over 1k.

04:13:22 mircea_popescu: well really, over 100000000000

04:13:36 kakobrekla: hehe

04:13:55 mircea_popescu: xe4l i guess i don't understand what the purpose would be

04:14:09 xe4l: it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless

04:14:19 mircea_popescu: right...

04:14:20 BingoBoingo: "Google Adwords" http://www.sjc.edu/after-sjc/

04:14:22 assbot: St. John's College | After St. John's - Careers - Alumni Outcomes ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUNYLq )

04:15:27 asciilifeform: it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless << >> 'it is trivial to steal most objects, especially rotting squirrels in parks'

04:15:29 xe4l: the size, shape, duration, timing, etc of our traffic, no matter how encrypted still provides a wealth of information

04:16:15 xe4l: if for instance, your laptop, desktop, phone, whatever; always did 10mbit of encrypted traffic with variations in timing, packet size, etc

04:16:17 mircea_popescu: i think you will soon discover if you ever get to the practical side of things that denying ALL INFORMATION to an undefined attacker is a function of infinite budgets.

04:16:38 mircea_popescu: in general, to keep 99% out of any attacker's hands you'll need to spend 100x what they spend.

04:17:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2015#965701

04:17:00 assbot: Logged on 05-01-2015 05:22:48; mircea_popescu: Fun noobs have a reputation of wishing to get involved in the most complex end of any matter first thing.

04:17:13 asciilifeform: !s invert matrix

04:17:14 assbot: 2 results for 'invert matrix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=invert+matrix

04:17:15 *: xe4l has a background in information security consulting for fortune 100's

04:17:19 mircea_popescu: http://www.benzinga.com/news/14/02/4346277/bitcoins-shocking-resilience-and-achilles-heel << one of the most idiotic articles on btc

04:17:20 assbot: Bitcoin's Shocking Resilience and Achilles' Heel | Benzinga ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUONUo )

04:17:27 mircea_popescu: "David Smith

04:17:27 mircea_popescu: David is on track to retire in two years from investing in bitcoins. David wants to help you understand the once in a lifetime opportunity this digital currency revolution provides."

04:17:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-08-2014#811154 (naggum, of course)

04:17:27 assbot: Logged on 27-08-2014 01:00:10; asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000?20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.'

04:17:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00066802 = 1.1356 BTC [-]

04:17:52 mircea_popescu: "david has a mental issue that makes him see vivid scenes from literature and also forces him to write about himself in the third person."

04:18:46 xe4l: what I'm talking about is simply providing less information, right now all of our connectivity generates a substantional amount of noise that can be intperetered, my thought is to shift that to, they are transmitting and receiving or they aren't

04:19:14 mircea_popescu: i guess something on udp then

04:19:21 asciilifeform: xe4l: let's start with the fact that 10mb/s will instantly promote you to your isp's 'hog list' in some, if not all, isp

04:19:23 decimation: who is 'they', and what are you transmitting or receiving?

04:19:38 asciilifeform: wasn't on a list the day before, and now you are.

04:19:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now that's an excellent approach to make the point.

04:20:40 xe4l: asciilifeform: it was a crude example, a proper implementation would do fancy shaping, but normalize the overall traffic pattern; I'm sure residential providers wouldn't like this, but MPLS/VPLS, metro-e, routing over peering/IX - it's irrelevant

04:20:45 decimation: asciilifeform: what is comcast's 'secret' bandwidth cap these days? a few hundred gigabytes per month

04:20:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles.

04:21:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture the fool who buys this, with his credit card, has it sent, etc.

04:21:09 mircea_popescu: decimation 60 from what i hear.

04:21:11 xe4l: over wireless you would pulse, your receiver would always transit and receive say 10mb every hour on teh hour

04:21:14 asciilifeform: 'whatamoron' - lizardhitler

04:22:01 mircea_popescu: xe4l i don't get what the attacker is supposed to think here. "oh, it's ok, that's just what that weird node does" ?

04:23:27 asciilifeform: xe4l: student exercise in traffic analysis. http://sleipnir.syari.net/pool/graphs.html?Month << litecoin miner graphs. say which ones are chumpnet-powered.

04:23:28 assbot: Syari.net - P2Pool Graphs ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUQl0H )

04:24:53 asciilifeform: answer (rot13) - boivbhfyl, gur fvahfbvqf. qnl/avtug plpyr, znpuvarf trg fjvgpurq ba, bss. gur cynarg gheaf.

04:25:04 BingoBoingo: !up xe4l

04:27:13 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles. << Obvious hypothesis, they found a Wasp cache and kept the rifles

04:27:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: neh, cheap plasticky crap

04:27:32 asciilifeform: chumpatron

04:27:35 asciilifeform: with bait component

04:27:36 BingoBoingo: Ah

04:27:56 decimation: like those magnets you stick to your gas tank to improve fuel economy

04:28:11 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967925

04:28:11 assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:40:04; *: asciilifeform rather thinks that this is a military matter, where adversary can afford to ransack and search 100 houses but not 100,000, and hence his gathering bits of info - matters

04:28:42 BingoBoingo: Cheap is prolly fine as long as you use enough cosmoline and can find solvent, but yes. Selling specifically for rifles problematic.

04:29:47 xe4l: mircea_popescu: oh the point would be that a sniffer would either see say 1mbit full duplex say ipsec traffic

04:30:20 asciilifeform: xe4l: then enemy relocates to the other end of the connection and proceeds to do - whatever he was originally to do at your end

04:30:25 xe4l: mircea_popescu: if the endpoint isn't doing anything, the software saturates the encrypted tunnel up to the same traffic volume/patter/protocol

04:30:54 xe4l: think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD

04:31:16 xe4l: no one can tell if your node is even doing anything or if it's just all white noise

04:31:33 asciilifeform: 'no one' ? lol

04:32:01 xe4l: lol valid point, few organizations other than the NSA have any idea if data is moving or not

04:33:37 BingoBoingo: xe4l: You idea seems to introduce of getting v& for DDoS as plausible reason even if attacker can not tell your actual schtick

04:35:49 xe4l: the idea is to reduce the number of data points that can be gathered from sniffing

04:46:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00066802 = 13.5274 BTC [-]

04:49:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you realise searching 100k houses just "creates jobs" right ?

04:50:09 mircea_popescu: if it were a military matter they wouldn't cut the walls offhouses.

04:51:07 mircea_popescu: <xe4l> think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD << o that's what this is, you fixing what you read about tor vulnerabilities recently ?

04:53:15 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 30 * 24 * 3600 * 10 / 8

04:53:16 gribble: 3240000

04:54:06 xe4l: mircea_popescu: haha, naw, TOR has a host of issues; this is merely a security layer if contemplated deploying

04:54:12 mircea_popescu: amazon will let you have that for ~300 a month

05:01:40 mircea_popescu: so thinking further on the project to compare ecdsa libraries from yest... i guess the best thing would be to email respectable crypto people see if they want to do it as a contracted job. anyone wish to make recommendations ?

05:02:27 mircea_popescu: aka "got a favourite cryppie ?"

05:07:14 mats: colin percival, moxie

05:08:53 TomServo: kakobrekla | i just find the whole fetch command thing silly. << If it was named scoopdog that'd be one thing...

05:09:28 mircea_popescu: mats aha

05:09:32 mircea_popescu: noted

05:13:47 mats: DJB, too

05:14:42 mircea_popescu: put links if you have em

05:16:32 mats: http://cr.yp.to/contact.html DJB contact

05:16:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0kev )

05:18:04 mats: http://www.tarsnap.com/contact.html cpercival http://www.thoughtcrime.org moxie with gpg key

05:18:05 assbot: Tarsnap - Contact ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0FxK )

05:18:06 assbot: Moxie Marlinspike >> About ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0DGa )

05:19:29 mircea_popescu: nice

05:21:28 joecool: hm i wonder if he ever pops on irc, his co has a small channel

05:22:01 mircea_popescu: experience over the past few years shows that answer is generally yes

05:26:23 mats: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/snowden-us-has-put-too-much-emphasis-on-cyber-offense-needs-defense

05:26:24 assbot: Snowden: US has put too much emphasis on cyber-offense, needs defense | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/14D22wt )

05:27:10 mircea_popescu: he's consulting now ?!

05:31:31 mats: 'defense' is kinda misleading imo

05:32:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00065591 = 5.2801 BTC [-] {2}

05:33:02 mircea_popescu: "fix the damned software" "nu-uh, we'd rather look for bugs in the chinese's" "they're using the same shit, you know"

05:33:06 mats: ...suggesting that computers as they are can be proportionally defended, rather than a contest of risk management and attack surface

05:33:32 mircea_popescu: mats if i defend my windows, i look for holes. if i attack your windows, i... look for holes ?

05:33:35 mircea_popescu: wtf is the difference.

05:34:39 mircea_popescu: obviously, on a strategic plane the difference would be "stop making broken by design software ; behead all the shitgnomes ; adopt bitcoin as us currency" etc.

05:34:44 mircea_popescu: but that's a way waiting.

05:41:24 mats: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00111.html f/oss has best community

05:41:25 assbot: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/14D4FhK )

05:42:00 mircea_popescu: obviously i read "floss"

05:42:15 mats: as intended!

05:44:37 mircea_popescu: i don't get it. so, stallman-gcc, is at odds with stallman-emacs and they don';t wanna talk inside his head because cacti ?

05:45:58 mats: ive read it several times and concluded a) i dont get it and b) f/oss is embarassing and dumb

05:46:11 mircea_popescu: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00205.html

05:46:12 assbot: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1yNAYrs )

05:46:19 mircea_popescu: apparently there's some debate about ast output in gcc.

05:49:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, the gcc-emacs merger seems slowly but surely emergent

05:51:29 mircea_popescu: mebbe they could call it gccemacsd

05:51:44 mats: id like to see gcc contribs move over to llvm, if for no other reason than to motivate both parties

05:52:17 mircea_popescu: i have not looked at the matter in at least 3 years. does llvm still own gcc much to everyone's chagrin and denial ?

05:52:24 asciilifeform: it never did, afaik

05:52:33 asciilifeform: on any parameter i know of

05:53:00 asciilifeform: but apple, etc. love it on account of no gpl

05:54:01 mircea_popescu: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=llvm_clang35_avx2&num=1

05:54:02 assbot: [Phoronix] GCC 5.0 Outruns LLVM 3.5 Compiler By A Bit On Core-AVX2 ... ( http://bit.ly/14D6OKl )

05:54:05 mircea_popescu: im still there

05:55:15 mircea_popescu: llvm compiles faster, sucks at encryption (lol) and by degrees at everything else.

05:55:22 mircea_popescu: sounds like the true c compiler!

05:56:03 asciilifeform: iirc rms is concerned about something quite valid - gcc has excellent front-end and ast-level optimizations, while at the same time, a middling-to-poor set of back-ends (depending on cpu arch)

05:56:55 mircea_popescu: take half and run, yes

05:56:57 asciilifeform: back-end optimizations, that is

05:57:05 asciilifeform: aha. plenty of folks want to take, take, run.

05:57:18 BingoBoingo: http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06685.html

05:57:19 assbot: [Bitcoin-development] OpenSSL 1.0.0p / 1.0.1k incompatible, causes blockchain rejection. ... ( http://bit.ly/14D7qiW )

05:57:26 mircea_popescu: aww

05:57:29 mats: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html RMS pisses on llvm

05:57:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D7r6v )

05:58:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo let me dig up my own words from the damned logs

05:58:48 BingoBoingo: Everyone knows you have them.

05:58:52 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

06:00:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-01-2015#969805

06:00:54 assbot: Logged on 08-01-2015 08:24:54; mircea_popescu: he's prolly aiming for putting it in by february, but won't actually have the tech resources to do it and rather than risk a total humiliatory blowout delay it to march

06:01:08 mircea_popescu: already cracking at teh seams.

06:01:17 mircea_popescu: day later.

06:02:40 asciilifeform: 'wunderwaffen' answered.

06:02:54 asciilifeform: -- 'soft' fork on some other minor point, boil frog more slowly.

06:03:52 mircea_popescu: not good enough.

06:04:41 mats: http://massprivatei.blogspot.ca/2015/01/mass-law-enforcement-agenices-claim.html

06:04:42 assbot: MassPrivateI: Mass. law enforcement agencies claim they're corporations and they're exempt from FOIA requests ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8PX1 )

06:04:49 mircea_popescu: "While I have often cautioned people before to avoid using libsecp256k1

06:04:50 mircea_popescu: for verification on the grounds that consensus trumps correctness, the

06:04:50 mircea_popescu: above incompatibility does strongly suggest that OpenSSL may not itself

06:04:50 mircea_popescu: have very good consensus-critical design. Along with Maxwell and

06:04:50 mircea_popescu: Wuille's recent findings? CVE-2014-3570 - strong evidence of the

06:04:50 mats: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11333928/Bank-of-America-warns-of-lethal-damage-to-Chinas-financial-system-as-deflation-deepens.html

06:04:52 assbot: Bank of America warns of 'lethal' damage to China's financial system as deflation deepens - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8OSM )

06:04:52 mircea_popescu: excellent testing the library has undergone - I personally am now of the

06:04:53 mircea_popescu: opinion that migrating Bitcoin Core to libsecp256k1 in the near future

06:04:55 mircea_popescu: is a good idea on the grounds that it provides us with a well-written,

06:04:55 asciilifeform: mats: old news i think

06:04:57 mircea_popescu: and well-understood library designed with consensus in mind that'll

06:04:59 mircea_popescu: probably give us fewer consensus problems than our existing OpenSSL

06:05:01 mircea_popescu: dependency. It'll also help advanced protocol implementations by giving

06:05:03 mircea_popescu: them a clear dependency to use when they need consensus-critical

06:05:05 mircea_popescu: signature evaluation."

06:05:11 mircea_popescu: unless there's some sort of major backdoor in wuille's ecdsa implementation...

06:05:35 mircea_popescu: anyway, ima get on teh comparison requests tomorrow. if anyone has more names to suggest as per above...

06:06:22 asciilifeform: mats: see also:

06:06:29 asciilifeform: !s gendarmerie

06:06:31 assbot: 7 results for 'gendarmerie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gendarmerie

06:07:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, doing the 'nix openssl' thing from therealbitcoin idea list ?

06:08:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems so.

06:08:24 mats: asciilifeform: ive only seen this specific issue get airtime in the last few months

06:08:30 mircea_popescu: not that THAT is a bad move in any sense, of course. but timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.

06:08:45 mats: but yes, i agree with the premise re: gendarmerie

06:09:04 BingoBoingo: http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/9/8/359098_v1.jpg

06:09:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D9F5P )

06:09:06 asciilifeform: i expect to be a minority of one on this, but i'd much rather see it done by one of the folks here, than by a great sage who may or may not have been suborned (or shall be as soon as enemy gets wind of intention)

06:09:12 asciilifeform: unless you'd like to hire them in pairs.

06:09:32 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 28(Y):72(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,593.

06:09:53 mircea_popescu: the asking is public, let teh enemy pluck its hairs.

06:10:20 mats: BingoBoingo: chimps are terrifying.

06:10:32 BingoBoingo: mats: Of course

06:13:09 asciilifeform: has anyone considered how preposterous the entire notion is, of bitcoin depending in the least bit on crud in external libs that can change on a whim ?

06:14:52 mircea_popescu: you mean, has anyone considered how idiotic "update now" is ?

06:15:00 mircea_popescu: yes, actuyally, they have. here even, publicly and explicitly.

06:15:13 asciilifeform: ah yes, more or less that.

06:15:26 asciilifeform: but it's especially ludicrous for safety-critical proggy

06:15:34 asciilifeform: and astonishing how long folks have been putting up with it.

06:16:48 mircea_popescu: not astonishing in the slightest.

06:17:00 mircea_popescu: first, there was one man, who couldn't code, doing idiotic things like windows and qt.

06:17:12 mircea_popescu: then there was a group of youthful men doing what seemed clumsy but well meaning stuff

06:17:24 mircea_popescu: then they were cast out and a bitcoin foundation constructed.

06:17:43 mircea_popescu: seems very reasonable really. how short would you have put up with it ?

06:18:42 *: asciilifeform recalls now the discussion of 'what do the mega-miners run, and why should they ever wish to tell us'

06:18:46 mircea_popescu: side note : i read someone (maybe joel on soft ?) in a wonderful piece "why i never upgrade" and i've never been able to find it again. ne1 know it ?

06:25:09 asciilifeform: mats: gcc... a) i dont get it... << what's the hard concept here? rms wishes to avoid gcc turning into a sweet and defenceless piece of candy for the 'embrace & extend/extinguish' folks.

06:25:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's characteristically weak in the rhetorics involved.

06:26:23 mircea_popescu: i very much doubt half his closest collaborators grok what he means on the strenght of his text. you yourself, i suspect, followed the logic of the situaiton not the logic of his words.

06:26:31 asciilifeform: situation aha

06:26:40 asciilifeform: 'the spartan - speaks with his sword.'

06:26:44 mircea_popescu: well yeah, so, i don't understand wtf he's saying either.

06:26:48 asciilifeform: weak rhetoric, but he wields the zapper.

06:27:00 mircea_popescu: i do understand what he should be saying. but...

06:27:06 asciilifeform: through the sword i listen to wtf he is actually saying.

06:27:58 asciilifeform: reportedly, rms keeps a harem. perhaps it understands his words.

06:28:30 mircea_popescu: i never heard that report.

06:28:54 mircea_popescu: i heard of parrots and a fear of bathing and cactus

06:29:06 *: asciilifeform cannot swear to it, mainly informed thirdhand re: a variety of rms women.

06:29:16 asciilifeform: cactus ?

06:31:04 mircea_popescu: myeah

06:32:02 *: asciilifeform does not know what to believe, but did at one point meet an actual live woman who spoke at length of writing to rms and wishing to make close acquaintance - no luck

06:33:10 mircea_popescu: this proves harem in the sense person offering large stores of grain to dissinterested cad thereby proves cat's a farmer.

06:33:20 asciilifeform: lol

06:34:07 asciilifeform: re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased

06:34:08 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2PCNQ24.txt )

06:34:08 BingoBoingo: !b 2

06:34:10 mircea_popescu: in my limited experience with harems and the people keeping them, you can more or less get a trial run. especially as a young, entused woman.

06:34:14 BingoBoingo: Damn, missed

06:34:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically, gaddafi was regarded as similarly odd,

06:34:32 mircea_popescu: especially as he become politically inconvenient

06:34:38 mircea_popescu: and in direct relation to that.

06:34:41 asciilifeform: aha.

06:35:16 asciilifeform: re: mr g:

06:35:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573142 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573144 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573145 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573146

06:35:34 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is

06:35:34 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos,

06:35:34 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life remains possible

06:35:34 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:41; asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.'

06:35:40 asciilifeform: (limonov)

06:35:46 mircea_popescu: http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com.ar/2009/07/emailing-richard-stallman.html << some of the lulzier (because vintage) drama.

06:35:48 assbot: Open Source to Go!: Emailing Richard Stallman ... ( http://bit.ly/14Dek7P )

06:36:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00066802 = 4.5091 BTC [+]

06:38:09 mircea_popescu: tl;dr : gnome twerp is "I?d strongly encourage you to refrain from such comments in the future.", because that's how the world works nao.

06:39:08 asciilifeform: pour la gnome-aille, il faut la mitraille.

06:39:27 asciilifeform: or sumthinglikethat

06:40:02 mircea_popescu: "315 comments", you understand.

06:41:21 mircea_popescu: still, they're funny. guy derps about how "concerns echoed again and again are ignored!!11" and is amazed. then people echo again and again the concern that "wtf loosen up" and "why are you publishing some guy's emails ?" which he... amazingly... ignores. why ?

06:41:21 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

06:41:32 mircea_popescu: "because he wqon't read me! and there's no other way to vent my little penis!"

06:41:47 mircea_popescu: it's so great to live in this day and age.

06:42:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15798 @ 0.00064422 = 10.1774 BTC [-] {2}

06:42:08 mircea_popescu: sometimes i shudder at the thought at how comparatively harder and humoruless-er my life would have been, had i chanced to live among sane people.

06:43:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu could have ended up writing monte carlo sims for implosion tampers on gigantic trinary computer. in refal.

06:44:02 mircea_popescu: but this is a lot more fun.

06:44:07 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0QF6332.txt )

06:44:07 asciilifeform: !b 2

06:51:57 mats: !s graham allison

06:51:58 assbot: 2 results for 'graham allison' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=graham+allison

06:55:26 mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2014#751856 << i missed this. is he unreliable?

06:55:26 assbot: Logged on 10-07-2014 16:05:38; asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: only worth reading if there's a source other than alexander lebed circa 1997.

06:57:17 mircea_popescu: http://www.thebaffler.com/articles/the-meme-hustler

06:57:19 assbot: The Meme Hustler - The Baffler ... ( http://bit.ly/14DhNn7 )

06:57:34 mircea_popescu: "The enduring emptiness of our technology debates has one main cause, and his name is Tim O?Reilly."

06:57:58 mircea_popescu: whodda thunk making a shitton of "x for idiots" books will result in a large bleating herd of idiots!

06:58:06 mircea_popescu: NOBODY COULD HAVE FORESEEN

07:05:18 mircea_popescu: (ethymology also interesting : stallman's favourite pressman - evgeny morozov - running down o'reilly because he's not left enough!!)

07:06:34 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the relative failure of foss is strictly due to the incongruous and often misshapen radical leftist ideas of stallman. had that thing been "the same old gospel of individualism, small government, and market fundamentalism that we associate with Randian characters" it'd not be struggling covered under a pile of open source.

07:07:08 mats: http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/138/the-nature-and-history-of-equity.aspx

07:07:11 assbot: The nature and history of equity ... ( http://bit.ly/1xO6Fz8 )

07:10:02 mats: whoops ... wrong one. i'm reading about the Earl of Oxford's case

07:11:23 mats: http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/188688/early-intervention.pdf

07:11:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14Dk4yD )

07:11:27 mircea_popescu: which one is that ?

07:16:28 mats: > concerned land in London which Henry VIII had gifted to Thomas, Lord Audley, as a reward ... By his will, Audley left the land to Magdalene College, Cambridge, but the college subsequently sold the land and some of it was acquired, indirectly, by the Earl of Oxford. Magdalene College challenged Oxford's title on the basis of a statute which prohibited the

07:16:28 mats: disposition of College lands ... as part of the original sale, Magdalene College had made an intermediate transfer to Queen Elizabeth with the deliberate intention of bypassing the statute.

07:17:22 mircea_popescu: heh

07:21:12 mircea_popescu: you know a simple summary of all the many ways english barristers tried to use the crown as a fixed point to unseat the lawe would be dazzling.

07:21:45 mats: i pity the research assistant

07:21:55 mircea_popescu: one example : original legislation to defend the living against mortmain holdings required all wills vest

07:22:11 mircea_popescu: but how ? and they came to the idea to make it vest in a definite relation to a definitely existing thing

07:22:20 mircea_popescu: on the principle that nothing that is is forever, and so...

07:22:45 mircea_popescu: the reaction ? make wills reference the throne succession. so wills would be as good as the lifetime of the dynasty.

07:23:09 mircea_popescu: that had to be excised specifically, which is how the wills practice got to be so insanely complicated, the us practitioners pretty much gave up.

07:24:21 mats: ;;dict mortmain

07:24:22 gribble: wn: mortmain n 1: real property held inalienably (as by an ecclesiastical corporation) [syn: {mortmain}, {dead hand}] 2: the oppressive influence of past events or decisions [syn: {dead hand}, {dead hand of the past}, {mortmain}]

07:24:57 mircea_popescu: the dead are at the following advantage over the living : they don't feel any pressure to change their views.

07:25:48 mircea_popescu: this may become untenable.

07:31:10 mircea_popescu: to illustrate : suppose i am me, and i happen to believe that all females should spend a decade right after puberty nude at all times. i happen to be rich, and mindful of my beliefs. while i accept that i can't oder people around, i also expect them to respect my disposition of my own property. and so my will reads, that all my stuff is to be inherited by so and so successors, provided at all times all females pubescen

07:31:10 mircea_popescu: t for a decade or less on that property are nude.

07:31:33 mircea_popescu: my neighbour, a man of different notions but similar methods, orders all black haired people to always wear square hats.

07:31:59 mircea_popescu: a few century later, "circus" means a place where everything's quiet. because a simple walk down the street makes one's head spin.

07:42:11 mats: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2013/02/right-to-google-a-lawyer/

07:42:14 assbot: One Phone Call is Not Enough: Court Rules You Have the Right to Google a Lawyer - Michael Geist ... ( http://bit.ly/1wFwT2I )

09:29:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14991 @ 0.00065972 = 9.8899 BTC [+]

09:38:19 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/timeo-danaos-or-lets-enjoy-the-romanian-language-together/

10:31:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00064355 = 7.8513 BTC [-]

13:23:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8249 @ 0.00064355 = 5.3086 BTC [-]

13:26:30 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 23(Y):77(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.8399 BTC. Current weight: 98,810.

13:30:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00064351 = 8.8804 BTC [-] {2}

15:55:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17722 @ 0.00065926 = 11.6834 BTC [+] {2}

16:02:09 scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/day-job-research-of-2014/

16:28:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00064343 = 11.7104 BTC [-]

16:30:49 assbot: xiando +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

16:31:17 kakobrekla: !up xiando

16:31:43 xiando: So I need a better WOT rating all of a sudden? :-/ oh well, life can't always be easy as pie.

16:32:56 kakobrekla: as dead as wot seems it still changes.

16:36:47 PeterL: ;;gettrust assbot xiando

16:36:48 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask xiando!xiando@irc.xiando.org. Trust relationship from user assbot to user xiando: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=xiando | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=xiando | Rated since: Mon Feb 18 08:34:39 2013

16:38:20 PeterL: Could you self voice in the past? Maybe somebody here removed their rating?

16:39:58 xiando: Perhaps. But I am just this guy, you know, I rarely have anything important to say so it is fine, really. I can just idle and not be important and not write, that is alright.

16:40:37 PeterL: anything import to say today?

16:41:32 xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core which shows how "well programmed" that piece of .. software? is. http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/33221963/

16:41:33 assbot: Bitcoin / Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1y0Onwp )

16:42:24 PeterL: is this a problem with openssl or bitcoin-core?

16:44:33 xiando: Basically a bugfix in openssl makes bitcoin-core behave differently depending on what openssl version is used

16:53:09 kakobrekla: http://shrani.si/f/2O/R5/4lIvDtR7/advertising.png

16:53:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1y0PuME )

16:53:29 kakobrekla: might as well put it here.

16:54:08 kakobrekla: !up hermeto

17:23:55 joecool: xiando: yeah it breaks it, happy to report libressl does not

17:49:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00065628 = 15.1929 BTC [+] {3}

18:41:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1916 @ 0.00089279 = 1.7106 BTC [-] {12}

18:49:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.000659 = 4.3824 BTC [+] {2}

18:49:39 decimation: asciilifeform, others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ULtNYRCbg << dude made a complete word processor in minecraft, using 'redstone logic'

18:49:40 assbot: Redstone Word Processor/Computer in Minecraft [1024 subscriber special] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/17ugR61 )

18:54:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00064343 = 6.6917 BTC [-]

18:55:50 decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/10/us/politics/prosecutors-said-to-recommend-charges-against-former-gen-david-petraeus.html?_r=1

18:55:52 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/17uhQn1 )

18:56:19 decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."

19:01:55 decimation: ;;ticker

19:01:56 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 278.72, Best ask: 278.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.15000, Last trade: 278.87, 24 hour volume: 36864.61642640, 24 hour low: 271.03, 24 hour high: 305.0, 24 hour vwap: 0

19:07:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2015#972199 << lol right, like nuland.

19:07:17 assbot: Logged on 10-01-2015 18:56:19; decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."

19:07:23 mircea_popescu: cheeky politicos you got over there.

19:08:05 decimation: yeah, there's no way they will prosecute

19:08:19 mircea_popescu: orly.

19:08:20 decimation: but the little people in usg find that 'unfair'

19:08:27 mircea_popescu: peterl btw, know who invented rsa ?

19:08:41 mircea_popescu: decimation i suspect you don't understand how that world works.

19:09:16 mircea_popescu: xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core << this, of coruse, was discussed for the past few days :)

19:10:11 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla bwahaha slander! i'll bet you 1btc straight up they don't do it this month.

19:11:18 decimation: I note someone put a hefty weight against that gold bet

19:11:59 mircea_popescu: hm enough so im almost tempted to bet.

19:12:52 decimation: to think that gold will crash is also to think that usd will gain. it's possible, with all this 'oil shock' working its way around

19:15:56 mircea_popescu: gold has a problem of demographic. the only people that think gold is functionally useful as a monetary metal are poor. they may be a numerous echelon, relatively speaking, what's left of the upper middle class proceeding on vague intuition and memories. however, they're poor.

19:16:03 mircea_popescu: and that poor speaks a lot more to power than just money.

19:16:31 mircea_popescu: to everyone else, gold is this quaint horse buggy. no dispute it worked at some point, no desire to go back to that point.

19:16:34 mircea_popescu: no chance of it, either.

19:20:26 joecool: mircea_popescu: i built core off libressl, the response was "it builds?"

19:20:46 mircea_popescu: heh

19:21:00 mircea_popescu: not much love for de radt in power rangerlandia hm ?

19:21:19 joecool: apparently not

19:24:58 decimation: http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-to-propose-cybersecurity-measures-1420912674

19:24:59 assbot: Obama to Propose Cybersecurity Measures - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/17unoOc )

19:25:12 decimation: Mr. Obama will also outline proposals to tackle identity theft and expand Internet access.The proposals are part of a White House preview of Mr. Obama’s annual State of the Union address, to be delivered Jan. 20.

19:25:21 decimation: good luck with that

19:28:17 mircea_popescu: joecool anyway, the objection generally given to change in that spot ("that the code being merely correct is not enough assurance") is logically valid.

19:29:51 joecool: it's cool though, they are ditching openssl, i'm sure whatever they replace it with will do a better job :)

19:31:41 mircea_popescu: im not.

19:32:09 mircea_popescu: the exact thing played out once before, "it's cool though, they're ditching bdb, im sure whatever they replace it iwth will do a better job"

19:32:15 mircea_popescu: it could. not in their hands it won't.

19:32:38 joecool: mircea_popescu: oh that was entirely sarcastic, i did not phrase that seriously

19:32:42 mircea_popescu: o

19:55:29 adlai: gold is the old world's litecoin

19:55:44 adlai: had our fun, moving along.

19:58:45 mircea_popescu: i was thinking that as i wrote, but then dropped. yes, an apt analogy in many ways. very inept in others tho

19:59:47 adlai: it got me wondering what the old world's bitcoin is, and the least senseless answer is 'bitcoin'

20:00:17 mircea_popescu: nah, the old world's bitcoin is an unexpressed mix of contracts and reputation.

20:00:48 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> no chance of it, either. < putin thinks otherwise.

20:01:22 mircea_popescu: yes, well, putin is running a country. if you're running a country too, by all means, cover all bets to the degree he does.

20:01:34 mircea_popescu: makes me wonder where's your nuclear subs, but anyway.

20:40:03 cazalla: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2rys7y/are_we_witnessing_the_beginning_of_a_civil/

20:40:05 assbot: Are we witnessing the beginning of a civil buttcoin war? : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHVxQn )

20:41:30 thestringpuller: "It looks like he made his goal in life to be the most detestable person in the internet. (Methinks he is still nowhere near that rank, though.) However he is a precious resource, as an expert bitcoiner who enjoys kicking some of the most sacred cows in bitcoinland."

20:44:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00065872 = 8.0034 BTC [+] {3}

20:58:40 cazalla: bit more here too https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.0

20:58:41 assbot: Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHZiVY )

21:02:41 mircea_popescu: is that about me ?

21:03:21 cazalla: mircea_popescu, nothing you have not heard before lol

21:03:46 mircea_popescu: aha

21:03:57 mircea_popescu: aite well iwas writing a lengthy piece, brb.

21:07:33 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

21:07:42 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.25, vol: 37825.31373356 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 271.597, vol: 8362.04945 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 277.71, vol: 30430.02066324 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 279.0, vol: 29.42532153 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 270.617724, vol: 119575.66800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 280.0, vol: 51.85575948 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 284.113569988, vol: 36.2511054 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

21:07:55 Apocalyptic: cazalla, even "It is a possibility that the MP argument is a virtually literal strawman, atop a bonfire, to fuel a flame war that drives up his LTC holdings." ?

21:08:29 undata: wtf is virtually literal

21:09:08 undata: is that like almost true?

21:09:17 Apocalyptic: as sensible as the whole statement

21:09:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00066802 = 4.3755 BTC [+]

21:10:48 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.msg10105479#msg10105479 << My favorite so far

21:10:49 assbot: Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wI27pS )

21:11:16 thestringpuller: reading stuff like this makes me think of the matrix

21:11:35 thestringpuller: where you get unplugged and see all this crazy shit and at some point you hack back in and see all the dumb people completely unaware of there shit

21:11:39 thestringpuller: allegory of the cave shit yo

21:12:09 thestringpuller: As Louis Armstrong said, "As I think to myself, was I ever this dumb?" LOL

21:12:39 Apocalyptic: BingoBoingo, reads like the only reasonable answer so far

21:25:01 danielpbarron: if the hard fork happens, it should be possible to cycle funds in and out of exchanges that are dumb enough to switch, splitting away real-bitcoin whenever the withdraw gives you an output that hasn't been doublespent yet -- or is this possibility too good to be true?

21:26:02 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: May be possible. I'd count double spending your coins yourself to seperate forks before using them in anger.

21:26:46 danielpbarron: yes that's what i mean; withdraw, split, send fake-coins back into exchange, repeat

21:28:11 danielpbarron: when "dust settles," exchange is now fractional reserve (if it wasn't already)

21:28:14 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron no, it works just fine. gavincoin has to accept both bitcoin and gavincoin txn. this writes free options to everyone in bitcoin that gavincoin is held to honor regardless.

21:29:26 mircea_popescu: so yes, separate your gavincoins, send to exchange, withdraw. see if it replies with a bitcoin+gavincoin pair, if so separate it again.

21:29:30 mircea_popescu: if not, it's out of bitcoin.

21:29:42 mircea_popescu: (on the theory oldest inputs are favoured)

21:30:05 mircea_popescu: cold wallets may save them to some degree, but it's pretty random.

21:30:20 thestringpuller: in theory, gavincoin will cost more to produce

21:30:27 thestringpuller: the blocks > 1mb

21:30:33 thestringpuller: the gigachain is more expensive in nature no?

21:30:42 Apocalyptic: this would work only until the input the exchange is spending for your withdrawal is on both chains

21:30:44 mircea_popescu: i guess it would.

21:30:53 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic hence "if it doesn't, it's out of bitcoins"

21:31:00 Apocalyptic: indeed

21:31:04 mircea_popescu: working on the assumption of naive exchange, of course.

21:31:16 mircea_popescu: in practice i';d expect them to separate their funds immediately, and only pay out gavincoins.

21:31:27 mircea_popescu: so they scam the userbase more than the userbase scams them

21:32:24 thestringpuller: also, isn't it impossible to guarentee gigachain has 1:1 parity with main-chain?

21:32:38 mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?

21:32:41 thestringpuller: they would have to wait for main-chain to mint

21:32:46 thestringpuller: then include all transactions in main chain

21:32:49 thestringpuller: then add more then mint it

21:32:58 mircea_popescu: heh somehow i doubt that's how it'l lwork.

21:33:24 thestringpuller: by statistics alone, the transaction will very greatly in each chain

21:33:43 mircea_popescu: right.

21:34:32 thestringpuller: so in order to defend the attack gavin would have to include code to keep 1:1 parity with the main-chain while his blocks are minted

21:34:42 mircea_popescu: it wouldn't defend.

21:34:42 thestringpuller: how he does that, i dunno and I don't care

21:35:01 thestringpuller: not commpletely defend, just make it so doors are wide open

21:35:10 thestringpuller: aren't*

21:35:20 mircea_popescu: 1 tx is say 400 bytes. if i split 1k btc into 1k 1 btc txn that's 400kb. if i dump 400kb on the network as it is now, about half would be put into a block immediately.

21:35:26 mircea_popescu: whereas in gavincoin, all would go in.

21:35:31 mircea_popescu: thus, i split half already.

21:35:42 thestringpuller: exactly.

21:35:51 thestringpuller: even with 1:1 parity, you still get

21:35:57 mircea_popescu: so the only way to have bitcoin is 1:1 identity in all respects.

21:36:05 mircea_popescu: which is as it should be, really.

21:36:07 thestringpuller: transactions in gigachain that won't exist in main chain

21:36:35 thestringpuller: funny how even trying to dumb the article down, people still don't get that

21:36:45 thestringpuller: i even made a cute little diagram

21:37:16 mircea_popescu: i dunno what';s not to get

21:37:35 thestringpuller: i guess we just don't know how bitcoin works amirite?

21:37:41 mircea_popescu: this is likely.

21:40:40 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is exactly like that alt coin that went nowhere which was going to give everyone with bitcoin as many of the altcoin as they had bitcoin

21:40:48 mircea_popescu: i forget its name, but it doesn't matter, the principle is the same.

21:41:16 danielpbarron: CLAMs

21:41:30 danielpbarron: the justdice thing

21:41:38 mircea_popescu: the author thought he "covered" the economics involved. then it turned out the author had no fucking idea.

21:42:12 mircea_popescu: was that it ? pretty sure there was one before

21:42:22 mircea_popescu: rigth at the time keiser was pushing his aurora scam

21:54:36 BingoBoingo: !up fff

21:54:40 BingoBoingo: !up SnakePls_

21:54:44 BingoBoingo: !up jordandotdev

21:54:45 SnakePls_: !up

21:55:47 kakobrekla: dont break the thing now.

21:56:34 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla did bitstamp ever send teh documents ?

21:57:24 kakobrekla: not yet, but its weekend now, they are prolly drinking in some bar.

21:57:43 mircea_popescu: in sf ?!

21:57:53 mircea_popescu: maybe starbux

21:57:57 kakobrekla: they dont have bars there?

21:58:12 kakobrekla: brb

22:00:49 mircea_popescu: a) you can't smoke ; b) alcohol is bad for you mkay

22:01:09 adlai: "So I think the lack of a real computer science today, and the lack of real software engineering today, is partly due to this pop culture [of the personal computer]." https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1039523

22:01:10 assbot: A Conversation with Alan Kay - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZSPLe )

22:10:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18720 @ 0.00065069 = 12.1809 BTC [-] {2}

22:15:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13084 @ 0.00066898 = 8.7529 BTC [+] {2}

22:25:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6416 @ 0.0006749 = 4.3302 BTC [+]

22:27:32 thestringpuller: "That's my point. Before you kick a sleeping tiger that has no teeth make sure you can see his gums"

22:54:32 scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/technetium/

23:34:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0006749 = 13.9367 BTC [+] {2}

23:52:04 ben_vulpes: afternoon, gents

23:57:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00067109 = 4.597 BTC [-]