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Transcript for 10-02-2016, 1169 lines:

00:02:16 mircea_popescu: "1998-10-18 dscott@networkusa.net: "Part of the NSA job is to keep the world in the dark about real ctypto. Think about it. What better way to do it than by creating crypto preists for people to whorship."" and apparently this was well understood 18 years ago, also.

00:07:47 mircea_popescu: "1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "We *never* know that a cipher is strong. Ever." "Now, we might 'consider' a cipher strong when all *our* guys have looked at it and found no break. But, quite frankly, the *other* guys have more training, more experience, more resources, more time, and they may even be smarter than our guys." "I claim it is more important to have many different ciphers than to have a few which are 'considered

00:07:47 mircea_popescu: strong.' Why? Because we *can't* know how strong our ciphers *really* are to the other guy. But we *can* -- guaranteed -- make The Opponent pay dearly to keep up.""

00:07:54 mircea_popescu: terry ritter actually understands quite al ot.

00:08:05 mircea_popescu: meanwhile notice that EVERYONE is on aes to the degree people are treating it like windows.

00:08:07 mircea_popescu: ditto ecc.

00:08:11 mircea_popescu: fuck this stupid shit already omfg.

00:15:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84450 @ 0.00056296 = 47.542 BTC [+] {4}

00:17:32 mod6: <+jurov> mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days" << yeah, we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' until like 2020 iirc. we're good.

00:23:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whole thing is a riot, worth reading on rainy day.

00:25:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64267 @ 0.00056222 = 36.1322 BTC [-] {2}

00:26:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00056698 = 3.9972 BTC [+] {2}

00:26:57 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1401405 << solved in the same way travelling salesman is 'solved'

00:26:57 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 23:53:09; mircea_popescu: uh. i had no idea sat is solved now ?

00:27:04 asciilifeform: by brute force, when very very small.

00:27:45 asciilifeform: and by cheating in your wolf form, when larger (e.g., simulated annealing, eldritch magic such as evolutionary compute, genetic algo, etc)

00:36:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11173 @ 0.00056222 = 6.2817 BTC [-] {2}

00:37:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108635 @ 0.00056073 = 60.9149 BTC [-] {4}

00:48:34 asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out

00:48:42 pete_d_out: cheers alf!

00:48:49 asciilifeform: hola pete_d_out

00:49:05 pete_d_out: hola!

00:49:21 mircea_popescu: lol i see you like the wolf form idea!

00:49:44 asciilifeform: very.

00:49:56 asciilifeform: i'ma quite definitely be spending moar time in wolf form.

00:51:02 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399063 << also (in the last few weeks) first time the market cap of qntra has breached 100 btc. to both of which, bravo bravo bravo

00:51:02 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 17:35:13; BingoBoingo: In other news, Qntra just passed 1000 posts. http://qntra.net/2016/02/dprk-launches-satellite-into-space/ was number 1000

00:52:08 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398875 << and further felicitations are due to ben v !

00:52:08 assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker

00:53:01 pete_d_out: contravex turns two years old on february 22nd :)

01:00:50 pete_d_out: in other gendarmerie news, https://www.rt.com/usa/331793-texas-town-leaders-arrested/

01:00:51 assbot: Den of corruption: FBI arrests all but one local official in Texas town — RT USA ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnHopq )

01:01:15 pete_d_out: start with the small towns, then the mid-size towns, then the bigger towns ?

01:06:56 mircea_popescu: howly shit, a 7500 town worth 2mn, and the bribes going to mayor ~ part of a used car ?

01:08:09 mircea_popescu: in "what's in store for america" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnasqguj3m1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

01:08:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnIotY )

01:08:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote to blaze.

01:08:13 asciilifeform: fwiw.

01:08:21 mircea_popescu: cool.

01:08:40 asciilifeform: will admit that i'll be a little surprised if he answers.

01:08:59 asciilifeform: now who wants to try bernstein!

01:09:14 mircea_popescu: "1998-10-29 dscott@networkusa.net: "It is obvious that mixinf three different types of ciphers would be better than Triple DES...." << well, it's CERTAINLY obvious that mixing TWO types is better than double-des

01:09:23 asciilifeform: l0l! double des!

01:09:30 mircea_popescu: and there DOES exist such a technique as mathematical induction

01:10:09 asciilifeform: surely

01:10:47 mircea_popescu: in case any noobs be wondering why it even is triple-DES : doubleDES(plaintext)=plaintext.

01:11:07 asciilifeform: well, if same key

01:11:14 asciilifeform: which is the case for virtually all symmetric ciphers

01:12:20 mircea_popescu: right

01:14:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's point re: orcs is well-illustrated in the mega-compendium. observe how the crackpots who can barely string coherent words together, actually sit closer to the dirty truth than the 'educated' folk

01:14:43 mircea_popescu: quite so.

01:15:02 mircea_popescu: apparently all the stuff i proposed as common sense was in point of fact common sense plainly said on public list 20 years ago.

01:15:10 asciilifeform: and earlier.

01:15:19 mircea_popescu: yet somehow the decades passed for no benefit and idiots still pretend like it's never happened. outrageous.

01:15:34 asciilifeform: 'never happened' (tm) (r)

01:15:49 mircea_popescu: anyway. aes and des should be excommunicated out of everything asap, there's no two ways about it.

01:15:52 asciilifeform: it helped a little that google 'lost' the dejanews archive

01:15:56 asciilifeform: (at least large portions thereof)

01:16:31 mircea_popescu: also i should like to propose a lemma : that chaining should always proceed TOWARDS SMALLER BLOCKS

01:16:36 mircea_popescu: and never the other way around.

01:16:43 asciilifeform: explain?

01:16:57 asciilifeform: (and there is still des somewhere?!! where?)

01:17:16 mircea_popescu: if you have ciphers A B C with block lengths lA lB lC, then the chaining should be applied in such order that l1 > l2 > l3.

01:18:25 asciilifeform: this 'feels right in my gut' but how to justify this?

01:18:32 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-30 Douglas A. Gwyn: "...I can exhibit the design for a block cipher that is demonstrably secure according to the rules of the game, although it wouldn't be *practical*." << you should write to him, too.

01:18:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't. it is intuition.

01:19:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now that i think about it, it is elementary

01:19:39 asciilifeform: a break in the larger-blocked cipher is likely to rely on known structure

01:19:42 asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out

01:19:43 shinohai: !up pete_d_out

01:19:47 shinohai: kek

01:19:52 pete_d_out: cheers :D

01:19:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: deny the enemy the known structure, when possible.

01:20:01 asciilifeform: by using the smaller-unit meatgrinders.

01:20:11 mircea_popescu: i suspect it goes deeper than that. something something entropy/and/bandwidth

01:21:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally ... what about the set of ultra np ?

01:21:56 mircea_popescu: bobs@rsa.com mentions it.

01:24:05 mircea_popescu: man fucking schneier is intolerable. i can pick out his lines even without looking at attribution. his entire output comes out of a tiny fucking word grinder.

01:24:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he says right there, garey & johnson

01:24:26 *: shinohai L'chaim pete_d_out ! [~]D

01:24:29 asciilifeform: !s garey johnson

01:24:30 assbot: 1 results for 'garey johnson' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=garey+johnson

01:24:32 asciilifeform: ^

01:24:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-02-2016#1397622

01:24:44 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 02:49:24; asciilifeform: i actually hit garey & johnson's mega-encyclopaedia 'intractability' and dug

01:24:58 mircea_popescu: aha.

01:25:09 pete_d_out: shinohai even a few weeks early, i'll take it. cheers ;)

01:25:37 pete_d_out: actually working a "news" piece that i'd give to qntra but i... don't have my keys. so to contravex it goes.

01:26:04 asciilifeform: see also: https://complexityzoo.uwaterloo.ca/Complexity_Zoo

01:26:06 assbot: Complexity Zoo ... ( http://bit.ly/1RnKMkd )

01:26:07 asciilifeform: ^ megaclassic

01:26:31 mircea_popescu: expspace for instance. everyone's fixated on exponential run time

01:26:32 mircea_popescu: well...

01:26:42 mircea_popescu: expspace doesn't parallelize as well.

01:27:39 mircea_popescu: take for instance the berman real numbers thing

01:28:44 mircea_popescu: iirc all exp- are proven not in P. which is better than what is known for np.

01:29:00 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400919 << heh. ok so now i see that this 'news' was already in the logs. but does 'motherboard' actually publish the contact lists ? nah. do i ? you bet.

01:29:00 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:16:54; ben_vulpes: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/hacker-publishes-personal-info-of-20000-fbi-agents

01:29:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also schneier used to be mostly sane

01:29:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform come to think of it : take a matrix, set it to go pieces, calculate the value of the position.

01:29:35 asciilifeform: till about 2000

01:30:03 mircea_popescu: (note that "beating a human" is not equivalent to solving this. if it were...)

01:30:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually a bitch, but by no means np-hard

01:30:23 asciilifeform: somewhere below O(N^3) iirc.

01:30:43 mircea_popescu: it's not NP, it's EXPTIME

01:30:49 asciilifeform: supposing 'value' means 'what it means to go player', as in score if the game were declared to end

01:30:53 asciilifeform: rather than the minimax value !

01:31:01 asciilifeform: which is, now that i think about it, what mircea_popescu prolly meant

01:31:18 asciilifeform: you did, didntcha.

01:31:21 mircea_popescu: myeah

01:31:26 asciilifeform: l0lz

01:31:59 asciilifeform: forget go, nobody ever full-depth minimax even for, e.g., checkers.

01:32:04 mircea_popescu: and take Stearns-Hartmanis, you know for a fact that all EXPs are actually NOT in P

01:32:05 asciilifeform: just not done on this planet.

01:32:09 mircea_popescu: something you don't know about NP itself.

01:32:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go is convenient tho because so close to a matrix.

01:32:32 mircea_popescu: it is, in point of fact, a TERNARY NUMERIC SYSTEM MATRIX

01:32:38 asciilifeform: aha.

01:34:41 mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.

01:34:49 mircea_popescu: by which i mean, known to be harder than p. this is proven.

01:35:14 mircea_popescu: and know to be harder than p is a more valuable proof for our interest than known to be in np.

01:35:32 asciilifeform: hey i don't even own an instrument that deals in the reals !11111

01:35:36 asciilifeform: (and nobody else does either)

01:36:20 mircea_popescu: again and again we come to the "will need nre hardware" thing

01:36:34 mircea_popescu: !up PaulCapestany

01:36:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you can design hardware that deals in ~reals~ i will take off my hat.

01:37:13 mircea_popescu: you got one in your fucking car.

01:37:16 asciilifeform: mno.

01:37:23 asciilifeform: contrary to popular notion, analogue comp does ~not~

01:37:28 mircea_popescu: it's not programmable quite to your taste, but it does deal in reals.

01:37:38 asciilifeform: made of what, pfff, quantized matter.

01:37:43 mircea_popescu: lol

01:37:48 asciilifeform: piss-poor reals.

01:38:01 mircea_popescu: note that position is not quantized.

01:38:12 asciilifeform: planck length!111

01:38:12 mircea_popescu: just unknowable.

01:38:15 mircea_popescu: haha

01:38:32 mircea_popescu: but anyway, we digress.

01:38:34 asciilifeform: anyway contrary to the other popular notion, this is not why we don't have analogue pc

01:38:41 asciilifeform: (really because noise floor)

01:38:53 mircea_popescu: aha. it's exactly the same thing. "unknowable"

01:39:04 asciilifeform: noise in analogue machine is multiplicative.

01:39:12 asciilifeform: which is kiss of death.

01:39:22 asciilifeform: and actually how my rng worx.

01:39:38 mircea_popescu: but getting back to it, the point i want made is that EXP-* inclusion beats NP inclusion.

01:40:04 asciilifeform: yes, but to what planet should i go to, to get one ?

01:40:36 mircea_popescu: hm.

01:40:59 mircea_popescu: what don't you like about the go above ?

01:41:12 asciilifeform: just like mircea_popescu, to help folks working on a historic and unsolved mathematical problem by replacing with unfathomly harder one, l0l

01:41:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that it isn't a cryptoscheme ?

01:41:38 asciilifeform: (please wake me up if you can convert it into one)

01:43:13 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Pro-palestinian hackers leak FBI and DHS database. Here it is. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/09/pro-palestinian-hackers-leak-fbi-and-dhs-database-here-it-is/

01:44:17 pete_d_out: speaking of 'sensitive material', what ever came of that little dispute with your hosting co. over the sipa hit, mircea_popescu ?

01:45:20 shinohai: "Nigerian prince schemes" <<< lol pete_d_out

01:47:10 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: you do know that the lowliest monkey in each usg ministry has access to the microshit 'outlook' phonebook seen in the link, aha ?

01:47:37 asciilifeform: even contractors

01:47:47 asciilifeform: (all the way down to visiting chinese grad students)

01:49:38 pete_d_out: but you didn't and neither did i

01:49:57 pete_d_out: 'more just' now

01:50:42 shinohai: !up pete_d_out

01:51:04 pete_d_out: or to quote dr. zhivago, 'it's more just this way'

01:51:13 pete_d_out: cheers shinohai :)

01:51:45 pete_d_out: asciilifeform and chinese grad student mighta had a few hundred contacts even, but tens of thousands ??

01:51:59 pete_d_out: what kind of silos are these ?

01:54:51 asciilifeform: all of them

01:55:52 asciilifeform: this is a mega-unsurprise.

01:57:01 pete_d_out: weird.

01:57:48 asciilifeform: iirc the list of folks who work for fbi and dhs is not even classified 'sensitive' (usg legal term, the thing below 'secret')

01:58:01 asciilifeform: wake me up when nsa list, sorted by directorate, leaks.

01:59:03 asciilifeform: (phun phakt: even they are permitted to openly admit to working for nsa)

01:59:17 asciilifeform: i once turned up at a party full of'em

02:00:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35417 @ 0.00056468 = 19.9993 BTC [+] {2}

02:01:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48898 @ 0.00056506 = 27.6303 BTC [+]

02:02:19 pete_d_out: asciilifeform was schutzstaffel any different ?

02:03:26 asciilifeform: idk, never went to ~their~ party

02:04:51 pete_d_out: just another example of you being born too late !

02:05:16 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400204 << i lollered at 'attended butterbeast community college'

02:05:16 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 09:19:11; BingoBoingo: https://sli.mg/2Y1UQe

02:06:59 mod6:

02:07:17 mod6: haha wat

02:07:53 TomServo: Is there a better way to do this: http://dpaste.com/0V93852 ?

02:07:55 assbot: dpaste: 0V93852 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tbztgq )

02:07:55 *: mod6 has rather enjoyed the crypto discussion in the last number of days.

02:08:00 *: mod6 looks

02:08:22 TomServo: Like trimming the last entry, or checking for consecutive hours?

02:09:13 mod6: whacha tryin to do?

02:09:46 TomServo: Just looking at avg blocks per hour on a syncing node

02:09:51 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400224 <--> "My body is not something that can be sold. I can sell my time, attention, etc but my body always belongs to me. And I think shame is more your area than mine, otherwise why would you respond to such a non-threatening post with such violence?"

02:09:51 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:39:22; BingoBoingo: Brave camho ventures into the bitcointalk cesspool https://archive.is/64HCm

02:09:54 mod6: ah

02:12:56 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400271 << /me always wondered what alf used for 'smartphone'

02:12:56 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:16:19; asciilifeform: nah thats what ipnohe is for

02:14:21 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400275 << haha best 538 yet

02:14:21 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:20:50; ben_vulpes: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/cam-newton-never-had-a-chance/ << great charts

02:15:31 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: for what did you think.

02:16:00 asciilifeform: also for 'радио звезда' when commuting, what else.

02:16:02 pete_d_out: i toyed with the idea of dumbphone mebbe

02:16:23 asciilifeform: didja also toy with idea of chewing rusty nails ?

02:16:33 pete_d_out: i did !

02:16:44 *: phf uses dumbphone

02:17:01 pete_d_out: asciilifeform you're a bit of a masochist of nothing else.

02:17:06 pete_d_out: if*

02:17:28 pete_d_out: phf same here

02:17:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10798 @ 0.00056505 = 6.1014 BTC [-] {2}

02:17:51 asciilifeform: fwiw, the 'dumb'/'smart' distinction is a sham

02:18:07 asciilifeform: or rather, from user's pov, it exists;

02:18:19 asciilifeform: while it makes not a lick of difference to usg deathsquad

02:19:22 asciilifeform: worth remembering that the ~original~ (in as far as publicly known) case of pwned phone with always-on mic was a 'dumb'

02:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116450 @ 0.00056725 = 66.0563 BTC [+] {2}

02:19:33 phf: well, that's not a reason i use mine. i spend so much time on technology, i require explicit and often prolonged periods of disconnect to stay healthy

02:19:42 pete_d_out: ^^^^

02:20:02 pete_d_out: and, hell, ergonomics

02:20:14 asciilifeform: l0l, wut?!

02:20:19 asciilifeform: pete_d_out actually talks ~into~ the thing ?

02:20:28 pete_d_out: huh ?

02:20:32 pete_d_out: nonono

02:20:33 asciilifeform: headset exists

02:20:44 pete_d_out: but using as 'internet device'

02:21:39 asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out

02:22:03 pete_d_out: standing there or sitting there, hunched over with the stupid i-thing 12" in front of your face because it's 'convenient' instead of walking over to desktop or laptop or god forbid waiting until you get home. ~that's~ the killer.

02:23:06 asciilifeform: pete_d_out clearly does not spend much time stuck in cars

02:23:08 asciilifeform: or trains

02:23:14 kakobrekla: pete_d_out how about some prehistoric nokia

02:23:38 kakobrekla: also works as hammer

02:24:01 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: pretty sure these won't even work, where i live, today

02:24:02 *: kakobrekla likes phones that work as hammers

02:24:07 nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.

02:24:10 asciilifeform: american telcos phased out analogue band

02:24:12 shinohai: "Damn, we're 1 brick short of finishing this house" "I have a Nokia!"

02:24:16 nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your treason now, that all may witness it.

02:24:28 kakobrekla: im sure something like nokia 3210 still works here just fine

02:24:30 asciilifeform: fwiw i agree with nubbins`

02:24:42 nubbins`: lords care not whether their presence "confuses the noobs"; such reasoning is unfit for discourse

02:24:43 pete_d_out: asciilifeform i walk or cycle 4/7 days per week. 'saddam' sits in heated parkade. blessedly for both and neither of our constitutions could bear more roadtime.

02:25:41 phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory

02:26:06 pete_d_out: kakobrekla razr isn't a great hammer, admittedly

02:26:18 asciilifeform: phf: i actually ran out (!) of book tape warez of tolerable quality

02:26:24 asciilifeform: from many years of this.

02:26:44 phf: pimsleur? :)

02:26:50 kakobrekla: pete_d_out yeah that phone is garbage

02:26:59 phf: could be speaking french and iranian by now

02:27:04 asciilifeform: phf: nah, that sort of thing needs attention span not available in car

02:27:10 *: pete_d_out isn't caught up on logs, isn't sure what nubbins` is referring to.

02:27:20 pete_d_out: kakobrekla i quite like it.

02:27:25 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year

02:27:26 assbot: The Lordship list, third year. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mc7w )

02:27:42 nubbins`: don't worry pete, just keep linking fraudsters on your blog

02:28:12 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: funnily, my brother uses 'razor' for decade+ now, it looks entirely pristine

02:28:20 phf: that's the phone that i use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007F9XJDY i guess it's discontinued, since the only available option is same for $250 :o

02:28:22 assbot: Amazon.com: Samsung GT-E1182L E1182 DUOS Unlocked Quad-Band Dual SIM GSM Phone with Dual SIM Standby Support, FM Radio and Organizer - US Warranty - Silver: Cell Phones & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mj36 )

02:28:38 pete_d_out: nubbins` ok ?

02:28:47 kakobrekla: we are talking about this 'razr' ? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/RAZR_V3i_opened.JPG

02:28:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mlId )

02:29:00 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes, it!

02:29:00 pete_d_out: ^^

02:29:23 kakobrekla: odd.

02:29:29 asciilifeform: why?

02:29:41 phf: biggest issue with razr, screen guaranteed to crack if you sit down with it in back pocket

02:29:49 asciilifeform: so never put it in back pocket.

02:29:56 asciilifeform: i've never in my whole life used a back pocket.

02:30:13 nubbins`: my back pockets are empty

02:30:20 nubbins`: why sit on a thing?

02:30:22 asciilifeform: anything therein will either be destroyed or worm its way up your arse

02:30:25 asciilifeform: aha!

02:30:39 kakobrekla: i havent heard nothing but 'it stopped working' from the owners if memory serves

02:30:42 nubbins`: even a wallet -- your cards will all crack in half

02:31:10 phf: i like to freeclimb abandoned buildings when i'm drunk, i have very specific requirements for my cellphones. i've destroyed 4 iphones so far, unfixable mechanical damage

02:31:22 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: perhaps these were the dropping, drowning, back-pocketing kind of folk

02:31:36 asciilifeform: against whom nothing, not even cast iron crowbar, is safe

02:31:50 kakobrekla: i dont know but if i cant hammer nails with it its not a phone for me

02:32:12 kakobrekla: i mean wtf now i have to take care of it!?

02:32:16 kakobrekla: fuck that.

02:32:18 phf: ^^

02:32:41 asciilifeform: 'leave the microscope at home??' 'no!!!111'

02:33:18 kakobrekla: but its not a precision device.

02:33:30 kakobrekla: its like youd need to 'take care' of a tank.

02:33:38 kakobrekla: puhlease.

02:34:06 asciilifeform: https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/d981bbfb-6f7e-4db7-9429-8d5df211f63c-large.jpeg << here we go.

02:34:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2mVpo )

02:34:46 kakobrekla: first day i got my last phone it fell about 5 meters to concrete floor

02:34:55 kakobrekla: put the battery back in still works to this very day

02:34:56 asciilifeform: http://images-p18-7.cdn.mywed.ru/users_new/2895/2895/forum/0018/18/1469907.jpg << moar!

02:34:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2n0JF )

02:35:00 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400324 << pretty much this. /me sold aapl in 2013, mostly uses 06-08 hardware now. no steve, no apple.

02:35:00 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:52:37; mircea_popescu: anyway, the winds have pointedly turned against apple. the time when they did that "we'll brick your device if you used other parts in it" thing i'd arbitrarily pick as the jumping the shark moment. but in any case : apple is for the next decade a company to sell, not to hold and CERTAINLY not to buy.

02:35:32 kakobrekla: if it was an 'iphone' it be broken to 100 pieces

02:35:36 asciilifeform: btw what was mircea_popescu speaking of there

02:35:48 asciilifeform: what did apple brick 'if you used other parts in it'

02:36:45 nubbins`: nothing

02:36:48 kakobrekla: tank should be able to take a beating. so should phones.

02:36:58 asciilifeform: nubbins`: aha! afaik

02:37:02 kakobrekla: there is no good reason not to.

02:37:14 nubbins`: you can use 100% "other parts" if you like.

02:37:36 phf: asciilifeform: perhaps this http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/06/apple-says-iphone-error-53-is-to-protect-customers-security

02:37:37 assbot: Apple says iPhone 'Error 53' is to protect customers' security | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2nj7o )

02:37:53 kakobrekla: relatedly kindle wont boot with unofficial battery afaik

02:38:16 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this is SOP on most new laptops

02:38:24 asciilifeform: ditto for power bricks, for perhaps a decade now

02:38:31 asciilifeform: (won't brick, but machine won't charge)

02:38:43 asciilifeform: this is called 'revenue leakage prevention' believe or not.

02:38:51 kakobrekla: my tp charges just fine as long as the voltage is right

02:38:57 asciilifeform: '90s ?

02:39:01 kakobrekla: recent

02:39:25 kakobrekla: must be an apple thing.

02:39:29 kakobrekla: what you are describing

02:39:30 asciilifeform: anyway chinese don't do it yet.

02:40:47 asciilifeform: l0ltr0n from phf's link : http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/09/internet-of-things-smart-home-devices-government-surveillance-james-clapper

02:40:48 assbot: US intelligence chief: we might use the internet of things to spy on you | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1V2nIGX )

02:41:11 asciilifeform: '“In the future, intelligence services might use the [internet of things] for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials,” Clapper said.'

02:41:46 pete_d_out: recruitment !!!1

02:41:55 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: aka blackmail

02:42:25 pete_d_out: i'm sure that'll work a solid 2/3 times.

02:43:07 pete_d_out: unfortunately, 1/3 'recruits' looking for every possible way to bring down their 'employer' is a lot of angry worker bees stinging anywhere and everywhere

02:43:34 asciilifeform: most 'angry' bees don't know anything interesting.

02:43:49 asciilifeform: or we would be sitting here and discussing how aes leaks key bits.

02:44:28 asciilifeform: and how magic packet enables intel remote admin via nic.

02:44:29 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400369 << no one got the 'pete(r)ed out' angle eh. hm. maybe bb's right, my jokes do need work :(

02:44:29 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:09:06; ben_vulpes: doesn't that get you on some kind of vile criminal list in canada?

02:44:29 asciilifeform: etc

02:44:50 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400376 << no one could've predicted !

02:44:50 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:10:08; mircea_popescu: i never expected him to not show up under his PROFESSIONAL names...

02:48:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78650 @ 0.00056769 = 44.6488 BTC [+]

02:52:27 shinohai: !up pete_d_out

02:52:34 pete_d_out: thx

02:53:34 shinohai: And with that I am off to the loving arms of my Mistress for the night. Ciao!

02:57:28 pete_d_out: gnite !

03:03:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00056769 = 9.0263 BTC [+]

03:09:53 mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.

03:17:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76200 @ 0.00056778 = 43.2648 BTC [+] {2}

03:18:13 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400809 << how about that conpherence you were at recently ? shnoopdog or what was it. no gurl programmers there ?

03:18:13 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:34:59; asciilifeform: where? antarctica ?

03:21:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27352 @ 0.00056571 = 15.4733 BTC [-]

03:22:26 pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400869 << i thought 'spruce goose' was funny in junior high or thereabouts. not that this reference was any more readily grasped than 'cscl'..

03:22:26 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 16:48:44; ben_vulpes: i am now renaming my cock to CSCL Indian Ocean

03:28:28 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401740 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-01-2016#1372916

03:28:28 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 03:18:13; pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400809 << how about that conpherence you were at recently ? shnoopdog or what was it. no gurl programmers there ?

03:28:28 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 18:52:19; ascii_shmoocon: mircea_popescu: 2 'trans' for every biochik

03:28:51 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000210.html

03:28:51 assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 2 - Call For Testers! ... ( http://bit.ly/1oqqg7a )

03:29:07 asciilifeform: and i have nfi what they did for a living

03:29:23 mod6: barring any sort of major problems, as long as this one tests well, will bundle it up in a week or so. have at it!

03:29:27 mod6: thanks in advance.

03:29:47 asciilifeform: mod6: neato!

03:30:20 asciilifeform: !up pete_d_out

03:30:30 pete_d_out: thx!

03:30:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32323 @ 0.00056427 = 18.2389 BTC [-] {2}

03:30:51 pete_d_out: asciilifeform y'know, you could've, like, asked the 'transies'

03:31:10 asciilifeform: ...why??

03:31:15 pete_d_out: "excuse me, miss, er, sir, er... anyways, so what do you do for work ?"

03:31:39 asciilifeform: again wtf why

03:31:39 pete_d_out: asciilifeform because people talk to each other !!!1

03:31:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94878 @ 0.00057111 = 54.1858 BTC [+] {4}

03:31:51 pete_d_out: to find out things (tm) (r)

03:31:51 asciilifeform: mmeh

03:32:21 pete_d_out: eg. whether your theory of "no gurl programmers except chetty" has any basis in reality

03:32:36 asciilifeform: i have strictly rationed Giving A Fuck Pointz

03:33:02 pete_d_out: and not so strictly rationed Theories About Reality Pointz, apparently

03:33:24 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: it was not a theory ! merely observation

03:33:32 asciilifeform: about concretes

03:34:08 asciilifeform: plenty of things that i have not seen with own eyes, live happily somewhere.

03:34:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno man, i'm just thinking.

03:34:39 mircea_popescu: pete_d_out nothing that i put in public.

03:35:11 pete_d_out: asciilifeform mno. "where are they ? antartica ?" is a theory. if a tongue-in-cheek one

03:35:46 pete_d_out: mircea_popescu aha

03:39:32 pete_d_out: mod6 nice work on v99995 ! quite a few changes in there. my v99996 test has had a few bumps in the road (mostly hosting issues afaict) but is still syncing. i'll let you know if there are any snags in that, but holleee you guys are pumping out these trb releases !!

03:40:37 asciilifeform: iirc no release2 yet?

03:42:47 pete_d_out: right you are. i misspoke then, should be 'trb iterations'

03:48:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: pete_d_out: for what did you think. << facebook games !!!

03:48:28 asciilifeform: l0l

03:49:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401608 << i never had anything else. da fuck i want anything else for.

03:49:13 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:16:23; asciilifeform: didja also toy with idea of chewing rusty nails ?

03:49:19 asciilifeform: angry turdz!11

03:49:48 asciilifeform: why does mircea_popescu even need a phone.

03:50:28 mircea_popescu: well, need.

03:50:58 asciilifeform: being that he is never in any place but where he wanted to be

03:52:39 asciilifeform: for some reason i have difficulty picturing him with a phone.

03:53:15 asciilifeform: even an analogue one

03:55:24 mircea_popescu: i have a samsung thingee

03:56:28 asciilifeform: i believe it

03:58:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401637 < o.O

03:58:39 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:07; nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship.

03:59:58 mod6: pete_d_out: salud!

04:01:55 mircea_popescu: i guess if the man wants it... that oughta count for something huh.

04:02:55 mircea_popescu: lol hardcore nubbins`

04:03:18 nubbins`: just call me the shadow lord

04:03:45 mircea_popescu: fine fine. sold me.

04:09:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401645 <<< ican't fucking stand people talking at me at thge speed THEY think

04:09:09 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:25:41; phf: i thought cars are typically books-on-tape territory

04:10:39 mircea_popescu: !up guest7187

04:11:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401670 << condoms go there

04:11:21 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:29:56; asciilifeform: i've never in my whole life used a back pocket.

04:11:29 mircea_popescu: in all the people who can't understand why they keep getting women pregnant

04:11:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401673 << ahahaha or that.

04:11:46 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:30:22; asciilifeform: anything therein will either be destroyed or worm its way up your arse

04:12:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401686 << you have NO FUCKING IDEA how much care you have to take of a tank

04:12:55 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:33:30; kakobrekla: its like youd need to 'take care' of a tank.

04:13:00 mircea_popescu: 6 horses better deal.

04:13:52 mircea_popescu: !up pete_d_out

04:13:58 pete_d_out: cheers !

04:14:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401698 << teh iphone.

04:14:57 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 02:35:48; asciilifeform: what did apple brick 'if you used other parts in it'

04:15:06 mircea_popescu: or ipad or something. i dunno, one of their shits.

04:15:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119797 @ 0.00056733 = 67.9644 BTC [-] {3}

04:15:37 pete_d_out: phf found it, tis in the logs

04:15:45 pete_d_out: more recent than i woulda thunk

04:15:54 pete_d_out: but yes, it's definitely a thing

04:18:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401738 << cool!

04:18:27 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 03:09:53; mod6: mircea_popescu: thebitcoin.foundation/src redirect has been put into place.

04:21:13 asciilifeform: btw whatever one thinks of crapple, the bind they're in re: greymarket parts is very real.

04:21:35 asciilifeform: when morons go to chop shop and have grey chinese sensor installed, and it craps out or works 1 time in 8, they will blame - apple.

04:22:16 asciilifeform: approx. same deal with the magic power cord

04:22:26 asciilifeform: i saw a chinese one melt, with my own eyes

04:22:28 asciilifeform: smelled, too

04:23:15 asciilifeform: (and yes, i am aware that the 'official' items are also made in cn. but they are NOT chinese in the usual sense, there are taskmasters ruthlessly driving the slaves and testing conformance to spec)

04:23:21 asciilifeform: ^ or at least ~were~

04:24:27 pete_d_out: on the topic of the lordship list, can someone please tell me what 'fief' mats is fighting for ? pogo distribution ? pgp server thing he started then quit ? other things ? i'm genuinely curious. he doesn't contribute ~that~ much to the debates here that i can see, though he's certainly not invisible, but most of what i glean from his commentary is along the lines of "windows isn't so bad u guise", which, i guess, is what it is. anyways,

04:24:27 pete_d_out: i'd like to sumbit that mats be removed from the lordship list on the upcoming go-around. tis but a humble proposal to my fellow lords.

04:24:31 mircea_popescu: right. WERE. back in the day when nobody had to be told to use original parts.

04:24:32 mircea_popescu: you know ?

04:24:44 mircea_popescu: the way dead corps go, fences go up after the horses leave.

04:26:20 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: iirc he was doing the judges thing

04:27:06 pete_d_out: he did do some solid homework there, i concede.

04:28:00 hanbot: pete_d_out you sumbitting proposals from an alt?

04:28:07 asciilifeform: ^l0l!

04:28:22 asciilifeform: pete_d_out: i mainly associate him with american army and related matters

04:28:23 pete_d_out: hahahah omg party foul

04:28:36 asciilifeform: (boot camp, boots, grunting, shitting oneself, sapping, other arts)

04:28:49 pete_d_out: hanbot you can tell i don't do this often eh

04:29:27 pete_d_out: in light of the obvious circumstances, i hereby retract my non-existent proposal. signed, nobody.

04:29:51 pete_d_out: asciilifeform and pants pooping iirc

04:29:58 pete_d_out: lol nm..

04:30:00 asciilifeform: i included!

04:30:30 pete_d_out: i'm more tired that i realised. i'm sending this alt to bed as the 4am crying-feeding is coming all too soon. ciao amigos !

04:30:44 asciilifeform: goodnight pete_d_out.

04:30:53 hanbot: happy sleep

04:31:06 mats: whoa there

04:31:14 mats: that's not how that story went

04:31:35 asciilifeform: mats: i well recall that it was a proper, orderly, military pant-shitting, don't worry

04:31:42 mats: good.

04:32:44 nubbins`: what's pete doing on the list anyway

04:33:18 asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc he wanted to be propaganda minister or the like

04:33:33 nubbins`: lel.

04:33:58 nubbins`: yoosful

04:34:04 asciilifeform: and possibly he handled one of mircea_popescu's synthetic assetrons, but i genuinely don't recall, this is far from my home planet

04:34:25 mircea_popescu: yeah how is that pr thing coming ?

04:34:27 nubbins`: afaik pete only wrote a blog where he regurgitated mp themes

04:34:35 nubbins`: and... hangs out here

04:34:45 asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc he does it deliberately, it was supposed to be a summary thing

04:34:50 asciilifeform: for heathens to read

04:34:58 nubbins`: oh, really?

04:35:02 asciilifeform: ask'im when he wakes up.

04:35:08 asciilifeform: because i have nfi

04:35:09 nubbins`: yipes

04:35:14 asciilifeform: i confess, i do not usually read his thing

04:35:23 nubbins`: that's sorta worse

04:35:43 nubbins`: yeah, bitcoin pete is not on my reading list

04:39:42 nubbins`: s.nsa january statement is on my reading list, but...

04:39:58 asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-02-2016#1398202

04:39:58 assbot: Logged on 06-02-2016 17:51:57; mircea_popescu: so for everyone watching : s.nsa will be doing double month report next month ; s.mpoe will be filing later today.

04:40:10 nubbins`: ah, ty

04:41:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00056584 = 20.9927 BTC [-]

04:42:48 nubbins`: is this implying an absence of operational activity?

04:46:28 asciilifeform: nubbins`: nope

04:48:22 mats: fwiw, most of my free time is consumed by work towards being useful for the most recent s.nsa proposal re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348500

04:48:22 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:05:28; asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .

04:48:41 mats: and in fact this has been my primary interest in being in this wot in the first place. since the beginning.

04:49:09 asciilifeform: mats: neato. how's that coming along?

04:49:39 mats: slaving over an idapython plugin for windbg because existing ones are shit

04:50:13 mircea_popescu: mats well that's great to hear, actually.

04:52:41 mats: overall progress is pretty slow. i would benefit from a mentor, but none of the greybeards i know, have time for me

04:53:13 asciilifeform: mats: idapython specifically?? in windbg? Why?

04:54:25 asciilifeform: lulzily, i actually liked the built-in debugger in ida.

04:55:17 mats: its what i learned

04:56:34 mats: and the public idapython plugins seemed more feature complete, so i went from there

04:56:48 mats: also, i was encouraged to do that.

05:12:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12767 @ 0.00056584 = 7.2241 BTC [-]

05:28:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61608 @ 0.00056452 = 34.7789 BTC [-] {4}

05:35:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21088 @ 0.00056498 = 11.9143 BTC [+]

05:42:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41325 @ 0.00056498 = 23.3478 BTC [+]

05:56:39 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1401125 << Appears to be missing

05:56:39 assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 18:54:06; mircea_popescu: hmm looks like qntra ate my comment

05:57:04 punkman: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/BART-admits-77-percent-of-train-cameras-are-fake-6818459.php

05:57:05 assbot: BART admits 77 percent of train cameras are fake or don’t work - SFGate ... ( http://bit.ly/1QUIXZY )

05:59:46 punkman: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/china-fear-bureaucratic-paralysis-by-minxin-pei-2016-02

05:59:47 assbot: China’s Rule of Fear by Minxin Pei - Project Syndicate ... ( http://bit.ly/1QUJ5J0 )

06:10:23 punkman: http://i2.wp.com/www.exposingtruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/bank-chart.jpg "If you were wondering how banks got “too big to fail,” here’s a good place to start. This chart shows us how, over the last couple of decades, 37 banks have became just 4 mega-banks"

06:10:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QUJR8N )

06:13:19 mircea_popescu: there is no reason to have multiple banks in soviet russia.

06:13:27 mircea_popescu: which is what happened : the fed owns all of them anyway.

06:15:34 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://static.adclickxpress.is/avx/images/b/DHM160X600.jpg

06:15:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QUKj79 )

06:15:58 mircea_popescu: %, best moneys ever.

06:16:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95922 @ 0.00056723 = 54.4098 BTC [+] {2}

06:30:47 BingoBoingo: In other news, Cruz/Trump/Rubio's odds are all levelling out on BitBet after fucking Kasich won 2nd to Trump in NH. I blame that disloyal hamplanet Chris Christie.

06:33:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00055973 = 48.1088 BTC [-] {4}

06:35:53 BingoBoingo: On the other side Sanders beat Clitler 13 delegates to 9

06:47:09 mircea_popescu: vaguely related, http://41.media.tumblr.com/8ef68c41bdf08d2706812737b323f547/tumblr_mhg0b3hl3n1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

06:47:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RondI3 )

06:58:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00056099 = 32.6496 BTC [+] {4}

07:06:10 BingoBoingo: In further developments, Cruz has now jumped Rubio as the new BitBet favorite.

07:24:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34875 @ 0.00056928 = 19.8536 BTC [+] {3}

07:29:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00056141 = 32.3934 BTC [-]

07:59:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00056379 = 8.8233 BTC [+] {2}

08:08:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00056379 = 10.4865 BTC [+]

08:16:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19106 @ 0.00056379 = 10.7718 BTC [+]

08:27:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68500 @ 0.00056379 = 38.6196 BTC [+]

08:28:12 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

08:28:19 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 377.5, vol: 5705.40195699 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 381.88, vol: 5740.47168 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 378.14, vol: 13050.93419762 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 378.0, vol: 0.27294365 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 389.45205, vol: 18178.66740000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 378.0, vol: 1167.00217383 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 381.63624, vol: 80.41276963 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

08:28:20 BingoBoingo: ;;more

08:28:21 gribble: 383.230107573

08:28:31 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy

08:28:38 gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 43270.9375, vol: 5705.40195699 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 43774.255875, vol: 5740.47168 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 43328.25, vol: 0.27294365 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 44652.5716, vol: 18185.49820000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 43427.931, vol: 173.34285269 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 43725.7692, vol: 80.41276963 | Volume-weighted last average: 44210.4863285

08:34:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59150 @ 0.00056535 = 33.4405 BTC [+] {3}

08:48:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00056639 = 11.4694 BTC [+]

08:53:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61822 @ 0.00056639 = 35.0154 BTC [+]

08:54:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22078 @ 0.00057024 = 12.5898 BTC [+]

08:55:59 punkman: http://irdajp.info/images/irdastack.PNG nice pile of crap

08:56:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PkoM7e )

09:09:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.00057203 = 44.4467 BTC [+] {5}

09:33:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73675 @ 0.00056471 = 41.605 BTC [-]

09:40:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19479 @ 0.00056471 = 11 BTC [-]

09:59:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00056379 = 17.703 BTC [-] {2}

10:14:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90081 @ 0.00056358 = 50.7678 BTC [-] {3}

10:22:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86839 @ 0.00056315 = 48.9034 BTC [-] {2}

10:31:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36858 @ 0.00056033 = 20.6526 BTC [-] {3}

10:41:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106691 @ 0.00055973 = 59.7182 BTC [-] {3}

10:45:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169756 @ 0.00057096 = 96.9239 BTC [+] {7}

10:54:20 deedbot-: [Qntra] Intel Removes Skylake Feature Retroactively With Microcode Update - http://qntra.net/2016/02/intel-removes-skylake-feature-retroactively-with-microcode-update/

11:06:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86150 @ 0.00056053 = 48.2897 BTC [-]

12:26:10 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401805 < 'take care' as in 'dont drive over this puddle of kittens or it will break!!!!'

12:26:10 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 04:12:55; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401686 << you have NO FUCKING IDEA how much care you have to take of a tank

12:28:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00056053 = 5.3531 BTC [-]

12:30:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71023 @ 0.00057252 = 40.6621 BTC [+] {3}

12:31:24 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-01-2016#1386711 >>> raise your hand if you've ever replaced AFV treads

12:31:24 assbot: Logged on 27-01-2016 00:06:01; ascii_butugychag: i thought adlai ~had~ a trade - tank mechanic

12:32:13 adlai: kakobrekla: you'd be surprised how easily the entire thing pops right off, like those rubber treads on toys

12:33:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42312 @ 0.00056225 = 23.7899 BTC [-] {2}

12:35:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14588 @ 0.00055888 = 8.1529 BTC [-]

12:46:25 BingoBoingo: adlai: How else does General Dynamics get the parts contracts?

12:47:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104800 @ 0.00057465 = 60.2233 BTC [+] {4}

12:48:04 adlai: heh that'd be good for some hand-wringing: planned obsolescence in military equipment. expiration date reached? cardano broadcasts private key!

12:52:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107800 @ 0.00057632 = 62.1273 BTC [+] {3}

12:54:53 BingoBoingo: Seriously It's a thing

12:55:53 BingoBoingo: Compare and contrase Humvee and Toyota/Nissan truck maintenance

13:17:04 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no, like take off the fucking threads and grease the stupid small wheel bs

13:18:24 kakobrekla: adlai, mircea_popescu , can you sit on it ?

13:18:25 mircea_popescu: a tank does 10 gallons to the mile as opposed to a truck's 10 miles to the gallon. the maintenance involved is comensurate.

13:18:43 mircea_popescu: adlai i haven't, but i had people do it, and felt sorry for them.

13:19:08 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sit on what, the tank ? sort-of. the modern shits are obnoxious. historically yes

13:19:12 adlai: mircea_popescu: i hope you didn't let that feeling show!

13:19:25 mircea_popescu: later, with the womenz.

13:19:30 mircea_popescu: that's what womenz are for amirite.

13:19:33 kakobrekla: yes, sit on the tank. great, i can sit on my phone also.

13:19:41 mircea_popescu: lol ok.

13:19:44 mircea_popescu: qed.

13:20:57 *: mircea_popescu reads the log, sees the people have basically said what he was going to say anyway, realises that he is rapidly becoming superfluous

13:21:00 mircea_popescu: PARTAY!

13:21:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73500 @ 0.00057102 = 41.97 BTC [-] {2}

13:21:42 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, http://41.media.tumblr.com/349d419fa0c0de096bca20136675a677/tumblr_nxd0kzYROr1uu92gho1_1280.jpg

13:21:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V3nNtI )

13:24:28 BingoBoingo: Why is the mobility impaired in this ad? https://i.sli.mg/nyYJ2T.png

13:24:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V3o6VB )

13:24:58 asciilifeform: !s tigerfibel

13:24:59 assbot: 1 results for 'tigerfibel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tigerfibel

13:25:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21130 @ 0.00057758 = 12.2043 BTC [+] {3}

13:25:36 asciilifeform: ;;google tigerfibel

13:25:36 gribble: Tiger I Information Center - The Tigerfibel: http://www.alanhamby.com/tigerfibel.shtml; Tigerfibel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigerfibel; Die "Tiger Fibel": http://www.gunfun.de/tigerfibel.pdf

13:25:56 asciilifeform: ^ re: tank, megaclassic

13:26:00 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://i.imgur.com/eb0cphL.webm

13:26:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V3ofs0 )

13:26:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6070 @ 0.00057819 = 3.5096 BTC [+]

13:28:10 adlai: BingoBoingo: passive-aggressive fat shaming

13:28:33 BingoBoingo: adlai: Sad thing. Actually Ad composed in the same way jokes are.

13:29:27 BingoBoingo: Apparently Colorado Technical is Butterbeast Community College IRL https://media.licdn.com/media-proxy/ext?w=480&h=360&f=&hash=SVXh%2Fx2nSIwBC9J9NkbXHL67CMg%3D&ora=1%2CaFBCTXdkRmpGL2lvQUFBPQ%2CxAVta9Er0Vj73QIOyxEmrq2OoACm7QgQc4XjLVrnIVf9j8rYISO8L5aaJfa__h1B

13:29:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFdb3W )

13:30:29 mircea_popescu: http://www.alanhamby.com/Tigerfibel/supplements.jpg << lol KWI, best doorstop tank

13:30:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFdhIF )

13:31:12 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 successfully patched V per ML instructions, now v99995

13:31:12 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:32:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111600 @ 0.00057825 = 64.5327 BTC [+] {4}

13:35:42 mircea_popescu: selbst moralisten und moral sind unmoralisch manches mal!

13:35:45 mircea_popescu: such a gem this thing

13:37:19 asciilifeform: i was quite certain we had a tigerfibel thread

13:37:27 mircea_popescu: multiple. still a fucking gem.

13:37:38 asciilifeform: aha!!

13:38:01 asciilifeform: best manual for a product in history, srsly

13:38:10 mircea_popescu: could well be, yeah. was just contemplating that.

13:38:34 mircea_popescu: fucking EXACT opposite of contemporary anglo retardation, incidentally.

13:38:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15336 @ 0.00057102 = 8.7572 BTC [-] {2}

13:38:41 asciilifeform: aha

13:39:04 asciilifeform: much this

13:39:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.0005695 = 30.6961 BTC [-]

13:41:39 mircea_popescu: fucking thing had virtually no suspensions, manual inertial starter, fucking wooden seats if memory serves...

13:41:53 mircea_popescu: no living wage fucktard loved his honda civic like this tank was loved.

13:42:17 mircea_popescu: you wanna complain about being stguck in traffic, how about being stuck in fucking rasputitza.

13:42:27 asciilifeform: 34 was loved, idk re tiger

13:43:13 *: adlai offers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon_(2009_film) for any movie bloggers who are curious about how much tanks are loved

13:43:14 assbot: Lebanon (2009 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1V3qjjL )

13:44:58 asciilifeform: adlai: sounds like a terrestrial version of 'das boot' !! will watch.

13:45:08 adlai: aha! yes!

13:45:24 adlai: significantly less traumatic.

13:46:01 mircea_popescu: did the t34 even have seats ?\

13:46:12 asciilifeform: did

13:46:16 mircea_popescu: iirc they just suspended the crewman on anal hooks

13:46:36 asciilifeform: nah thats american cars

13:46:44 mircea_popescu: lol

13:48:11 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> nah thats american cars << Only after 2005 model year. Previously there was a scrotum loop to take some weight off of anal hook.

13:48:13 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEel8zOyTgc << indicated soundtrack for said fibel.

13:48:14 assbot: Mit Bomben und Granaten Marsch - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFfiVo )

14:03:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49079 @ 0.0005695 = 27.9505 BTC [-]

14:08:09 mircea_popescu: lol frau elvira gab. tiger.

14:10:42 mircea_popescu: "OK: consider a city full of Chinese people, rigorously following written

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: instructions on the handling of small (8-byte, to be concrete) amounts of

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: information in particular systematic ways. (Yes, a group of individuals

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: running round with an internal monologue which if dragged first from

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: mentalese to Cantonese and thus to English might be rendered as "I'm an

14:10:43 mircea_popescu: S-box! I'm an S-box!", "I'm an transposer! I'm a transposer!", and the like.)

14:10:45 mircea_popescu: They pass the outputs of their rule-following to designated, possibly

14:10:47 mircea_popescu: conditionally-different, individuals. Such a small city can compute DES

14:10:51 mircea_popescu: encryptions/decryptions without a semiconductor in sight.

14:10:53 mircea_popescu: And that estimable Mr Searle will explain why each of them must be shot

14:10:55 mircea_popescu: after performing their role more than a few times, as they now understand

14:10:57 mircea_popescu: not only block cipher design but the content of the encrypted message :-)

14:10:59 mircea_popescu: Cheerski, Stefek "I Was A Chinese Sex Slave" Z"

14:11:01 mircea_popescu: ahaha such a gem #2.

14:11:03 mircea_popescu: i proclaim this the morning of gems!

14:12:30 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "I would hope that anyone reading Schneier's article would recognize that it is seriously flawed in many ways."

14:12:30 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Kery Minola: "You are really grasping at straws...."

14:12:30 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Xcott Craver: "!!! It's obvious that the memo did not mean 'prove' in the strict mathematical sense, but in the empirical sense."

14:12:30 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Douglas A. Gwyn: "The 'empirical proof' means very little since it can't allow for the eavesdropper's cryptanalytic abilities."

14:12:32 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 Xcott Craver: "Are you suggesting that we should use something other than the scientific method?"

14:12:35 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-27 W T Shaw: "To demand a single route to the truth is to prejudice against truths that may not be so conform to that path. This is the essence of what is wrong with what Bruce advocates, which is the same old tired argument we have heard for ages."

14:12:52 mircea_popescu: basicallty, the debate between accountants and scholars, started long ago, will continue forever.

14:13:36 mircea_popescu: 1998-10-28 dscott@networkusa.net: "ACtually if you come up with a good cipher you will not get it tested since they try to keep the rank of phony experts quite small." lol.

14:14:13 mircea_popescu: !up Sheepola

14:21:13 mircea_popescu: 1998-11-23 Stefan Axelsson: "What is needed, is some other, resilient, long lasting, redundant third party storage of references, such as a library is for printed material today."

14:21:31 mircea_popescu: funny how this entire fucking discussion is about how everyone there would really need want and desperately aspires to be in #b-a.

14:22:08 mircea_popescu: #b-a so schneier and the rest of the usg-powered nobodies get the swanson treatment ; #b-a so there's deedbot ; #b-a so everything in there comes back to it.

14:27:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, shot ritter an email, curious what comes of this.

14:36:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7984 @ 0.00057853 = 4.619 BTC [+]

14:45:43 deedbot-: [Qntra] Clapper: "Internet Of Things" Offers Tempting Surveillance Opportunities - http://qntra.net/2016/02/clapper-internet-of-things-offers-tempting-surveillance-opportunities/

14:50:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12907 @ 0.00057119 = 7.3723 BTC [-]

14:52:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4794 @ 0.0005773 = 2.7676 BTC [+]

14:54:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-10.log.html#t14:28:00 << teh esteemed entomologists may be interested in that discussion.

14:54:50 assbot: #Eulora log for Wednesday, 2016-02-10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QrkkRX )

14:55:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.0005773 = 21.7065 BTC [+]

15:18:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17797 @ 0.00057066 = 10.156 BTC [-] {3}

15:44:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402047 << recall the 'eternity' service

15:44:29 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 14:21:31; mircea_popescu: funny how this entire fucking discussion is about how everyone there would really need want and desperately aspires to be in #b-a.

15:44:36 asciilifeform: and related experiments, in the old days

15:44:50 mircea_popescu: aha

15:45:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402049 << so far no answer from blaze

15:45:05 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 14:27:29; mircea_popescu: anyway, shot ritter an email, curious what comes of this.

15:45:38 *: mircea_popescu feels more and more each day roughly in the position of the guy in that one tribe that successfully unearthed pre-war tech.

15:46:00 mircea_popescu: oh, there are other tribes out there, you say ? and they have quick horses and long-lashed women, you say ? BWAHAHAHAHAA

15:46:02 mircea_popescu: glhf.

15:51:42 asciilifeform: what tech? rsa ?

15:55:04 mod6: mornin'

15:55:24 mod6: <shinohai> successfully patched V per ML instructions, now v99995 << cool! beat up on it, let me know if you find any probs.

15:56:35 shinohai: Because if I am useful for nothing else around here it is breaking things.

15:56:44 mod6: break it!

15:58:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402054 << what part of this ?

15:58:15 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 14:54:48; mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-10.log.html#t14:28:00 << teh esteemed entomologists may be interested in that discussion.

15:59:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @ 0.0005773 = 20.7539 BTC [+]

16:02:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform naw. the whole shebang.

16:03:07 mircea_popescu: let's be explicit here lol.

16:03:13 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> what tech? rsa ? << naw. the whole shebang.

16:03:23 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> what part of this ? << all of it.

16:04:05 mircea_popescu: and omfg cherries here are good.

16:04:37 mircea_popescu: Islamists opposed the law because "neither elected MPs nor the government has the authority to change the law because these institutions could misinterpret the word of God". <<< check it out alf, the orcs get it.

16:04:42 mircea_popescu: "no legitimacy in democracy".

16:05:36 asciilifeform: eh they just have a different pope

16:05:48 asciilifeform: naturally no other pope is welcome

16:06:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35150 @ 0.00057842 = 20.3315 BTC [+] {3}

16:07:11 mircea_popescu: besides the point. the principle is still sound : there is no font of legitimacy in democracy. elected derps have no authority to change the law.

16:07:15 mircea_popescu: and interpretation is included in there.

16:09:14 asciilifeform: they also burn heretics for idolatry, all the while pilgrimaging to 'dome of the rock', etc.

16:09:17 asciilifeform: snore.

16:09:45 mircea_popescu: so ?

16:09:51 mircea_popescu: this is like saying rms also doesn't wash.

16:09:54 mircea_popescu: da fuck do i care if he does.

16:10:19 asciilifeform: well if the whole appeal of orcs is 'not yet radiation damaged'

16:10:32 mircea_popescu: i had no intention of fucking him anyway. unless he were to hire my as his hygienist, which is not something i do anyway, it;s really not my concern.

16:10:48 mircea_popescu: what appeal ? there's no appeal. they just happen to have a point.

16:10:56 mircea_popescu: kalash fires as well if triggered pulled by monkey as by man.

16:11:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.0005786 = 27.0206 BTC [+]

16:11:25 asciilifeform: sure does.

16:11:37 asciilifeform: what the monkey cannot do, however, is aim. much less make a kalash.

16:11:45 mircea_popescu: well, they did make the point.

16:13:34 asciilifeform: speaking of collapse, the lulfest in michigan is interesting in light of how it is presented by volkischer beobachter

16:14:00 asciilifeform: all in terms of 'tragedy', 'oh noez, city folks are getting bottles of clean water when showing id, but illegal mexicans have no id, what sad'

16:14:11 asciilifeform: no mention, of course, of the dekulakized property owners

16:14:20 mircea_popescu: which one is this one ?

16:14:23 asciilifeform: (who are forced to keep paying for the unusable water, and may not legally sell the house)

16:14:29 asciilifeform: flint, mi.

16:14:31 mircea_popescu: oh oh

16:14:31 asciilifeform: usa.

16:14:50 mod6: any one have any strong feelings on googletest & googlemock as a comprehensive testing framework for trb ?

16:15:10 asciilifeform: mod6: nfi. what even is this

16:15:21 asciilifeform: i thought we had 313337 perl scriptz or somesuch, for test

16:15:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't understand this, so flint been using lead pipes like... all places ever. what is the issue ?

16:16:02 mod6: well, i built some automated tests in cucumber/perl for V. but i'm saying for bitcoind itself.

16:16:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc it wasn't only lead, but various bacteria, obvious stink, every possible 'don't even wash your hands with this, much less drink' indicator imaginable

16:16:30 mod6: and it has a mock framework that can be utilized as well, and this could be really powerful.

16:16:37 mircea_popescu: ah

16:16:42 asciilifeform: so what i was thinking is,

16:16:52 mircea_popescu: mod6 im unfamiliar. is it a cloud service thing ?

16:17:02 asciilifeform: usg and local microusglets have no intention of collecting any less tax as infrastructure vanishes

16:17:03 mircea_popescu: or anyway, try and explain as best as possible the externalities here ?

16:17:07 mod6: i might have to go on a wild goose chase with this some time, post release when I have more time.

16:17:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doh. tax is set by the cattle ability to pay, nothing else. same tax is collected in new york and bahrein or w/e.

16:17:32 asciilifeform: aha

16:17:59 asciilifeform: whereas there is a widespread delusion in usa, that tax is somehow payment for services rendered

16:18:19 mod6: mircea_popescu: https://github.com/google/googletest

16:18:20 assbot: GitHub - google/googletest: Google Test ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sgg51s )

16:18:31 asciilifeform: the flint thing is an elegant illustration of reality, re: this.

16:19:01 asciilifeform: they are degenerating literally to the level of inca palace economy

16:19:09 asciilifeform: show up at city hall, get drinkable water. if not, not.

16:19:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform part of the democratic lie. that "tax is payment" , that "law is agreement", that "authority is legitimate" etc.

16:19:31 mod6: anyway, boost has its own unit testing abilities, which is what the current test are built with -- the allure of a mock framework here though, could be helpful.

16:19:32 mircea_popescu: they all flow in the same manner.

16:19:32 asciilifeform: aha

16:20:11 mircea_popescu: mod6 i will confes i am prejudiced against it just for having google in its name.

16:20:16 asciilifeform: ^

16:20:19 mircea_popescu: which is probably the contrary result to what they intended.

16:20:33 mod6: ok.

16:20:45 mircea_popescu: so basically it's a c++ test framework.

16:20:47 mircea_popescu: could be useful.

16:20:48 mod6: what if there was a different mock framework that wasn't

16:21:04 mircea_popescu: mod6 understand, i'm not going to necessarily act on my prejudices. just being upfront.

16:21:09 mod6: sure.

16:21:34 mod6: anyway, this is all food for thought; planting a seed. we'll have to revisit this later.

16:21:38 mircea_popescu: In addition to many internal projects at Google, Google Test is also used by the following notable projects: The Chromium projects (behind the Chrome browser and Chrome OS). The LLVM compiler. Protocol Buffers, Google's data interchange format. The OpenCV computer vision library.

16:21:48 mircea_popescu: so basically, it IS definitionally better than the boost suite.

16:22:10 mircea_popescu: "Linux Requirements These are the base requirements to build and use Google Test from a source package (as described below):

16:22:10 mircea_popescu: GNU-compatible Make or gmake POSIX-standard shell POSIX(-2) Regular Expressions (regex.h) A C++98-standard-compliant compiler"

16:22:13 mircea_popescu: i dun see a problem there.

16:22:41 mircea_popescu: diana_coman you have any idea re this thing ?

16:22:49 asciilifeform: why is this needed, again ?

16:22:55 mod6: we were just discussing it re eulora.

16:23:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tests are the best thing there is.

16:23:39 mod6: i wasn't too clued on C++ testing frameworks. but mockito is pretty helpful with stuff, so something similar in C++ space would be nice.

16:23:40 mircea_popescu: tests are actually better than code.

16:24:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mno. not-making-bugs is the best thing there is.

16:24:31 asciilifeform: with corrections 2nd best

16:24:35 mircea_popescu: thats a thing that isn't.

16:24:36 asciilifeform: testing - 100th place.

16:24:37 asciilifeform: aha.

16:24:38 mircea_popescu: let's not mix categories.

16:24:50 mod6: so to that point, it is nice to run a regression suite when any changes are made.

16:25:06 mircea_popescu: mod6 the principle is sound. i have nfi as to the choice, but the principle is sound.

16:25:53 mod6: ok, thanks to you both. sorry for the diversion here, we can discuss in the future.

16:26:08 asciilifeform: one tricky bit is that trb is a ~system~

16:26:18 asciilifeform: and much of the undesired behaviour we've seen so far occurs only as part of the system

16:26:28 asciilifeform: rather than malfunction/misdesign of any particular component

16:26:28 mircea_popescu: quite, yes.

16:26:39 asciilifeform: and moreover, it cannot be tested meaningfully except in live fire

16:26:55 mircea_popescu: you can not know what can be tested meaningfully until after you have done so.

16:27:16 asciilifeform: i've experimented with tcp replay for testing

16:27:21 asciilifeform: this might be a productive approach for trb

16:27:39 mircea_popescu: the problem is "meaningfully" is a very slippery term. shit can be quite meaningful to humans.

16:27:40 asciilifeform: (you simulate, approximately, a few hours of planet)

16:29:02 punkman: some smaller test libs perhaps https://github.com/evolutional/utest https://github.com/mity/cutest

16:29:03 assbot: GitHub - evolutional/utest: An ultra-lightweight, micro unit test framework for C99 presented as a single-header ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sgi6eb )

16:29:04 assbot: GitHub - mity/cutest: Simple (single header) C/C++ unit testing facility. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sgi8mj )

16:29:23 mircea_popescu: i suspect it's actually better to pick a one thing and get everyone to use that.

16:29:33 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I asked mod6 if he knew of some good testing tools for cpp as I am not up to date with the landscape on that for cpp

16:29:40 mircea_popescu: ah k

16:29:46 mircea_popescu: i thought you suggested it maybe.

16:30:54 mod6: diana_coman had one in mind that was super lightweight, looked ok for doing assertions.

16:31:13 mod6: just started diving into what's out there for C++ that has a bit more meat to it.

16:32:18 mod6: i think i'll have to drive out a poc of one of these frameworks at some point. not now though, too much other stuff to get done first.

16:32:32 mircea_popescu: it's a reasonable thing for the short to mid term.

16:33:03 mircea_popescu: having a trb-test suite is a good move, because even if dissidence is a b-a tradition, nevertheless it allows a common basis to make communication useful.

16:33:35 diana_coman: fwiw the google thing looked all right to me re features, but I wasn't too sure re who made it, lol

16:33:40 diana_coman: need to look into it more

16:33:44 mircea_popescu: i suspect the llvm crew.

16:33:49 mircea_popescu: prolly grew out of their buffers thing.

16:33:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other little boojum is that we don't actually know a known-good output for most of the thing.

16:34:01 asciilifeform: nor what failures to test for.

16:34:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but this is not a counterarghumnet, on the contrary. testing suite may help there too.

16:34:27 mod6: the adventure must begin somewhere :]

16:35:12 asciilifeform: incidentally, here is a very painful test i've contemplated

16:35:32 asciilifeform: on an isolated lan, place trb nodes, and break all known blocks into tx,

16:35:38 asciilifeform: then let them get re-mined

16:36:13 mircea_popescu: ahahaha these fuctards. moved water intake from lake to river with no further precautions, on old lead lines! HOLY SHIT. there is extant roman text as to the idiocy of this move.

16:37:03 mircea_popescu: this is utterly what the dawn of civilisaiton looks like. next, nobody could have predicted pissing on the electric fence.

16:37:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is actually not something that can be done anymore i fear. mining criteria changed ~3 times

16:37:52 asciilifeform: phun phakt - coastal usaschwitz inmates regard the inlands as 'flyover', a sort of built-in zimbabwe, and give very little fuck re: what happens there

16:38:15 mircea_popescu: "A class-action lawsuit alleges the state Department of Environmental Quality didn't treat the water for corrosion, in accordance with federal law, and because so many service lines to Flint are made of lead, the noxious element leached into the water of the city's homes."

16:38:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah and precisely the point, i would like to learn ~what~ cannot be done any more

16:38:16 mircea_popescu: bejesus.

16:38:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform everything can still be done. the poiint is that a hole large enough to fit the earlier blocks will result in a hole too large today, that'd admit things that won't get mined.

16:39:01 mircea_popescu: the thread narrowed.

16:39:44 asciilifeform: how would it admit anything other than the test tx pool made from smashed real-world blocks ?

16:39:50 asciilifeform: which are known to have been mined in reality

16:41:15 mircea_popescu: der, s-high, there's a list.

16:41:30 mircea_popescu: the fact that they were mined in the past is no guarantee they would be mined today

16:44:49 asciilifeform: now this is true

16:45:10 asciilifeform: but in point of fact, miners being retarded does not mean the protocol has changed.

16:45:27 mircea_popescu: sure. but tests are tests.

16:47:52 mircea_popescu: in lighter news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0virzKZzY1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

16:47:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20VHUO9 )

16:51:38 mircea_popescu: "It isn't easy to build a large general-purpose quantum computer, but many people publicly working on it seem to think that they'll be successful next decade. Maybe there will be serious obstacles that slow down or stop this success, but there's clearly a serious risk to RSA and ECC, and it isn't sensible risk management to pretend that the problem doesn't exist."

16:51:51 mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit omfg. i am not PRETENDING the problem doesn't exist. the problem does factually not exist.

16:51:57 mircea_popescu: what fucking problem ?

16:52:35 mircea_popescu: MIT idiots were going to be successful next decade every decade since 1950. then "winter" "happened" because totally.

16:53:21 mircea_popescu: and they'll have the unmitigated audacity to call it "the quantum winter" as opposed to "the just desserts after a decade of fraudulent pseudoscientific claims" and/or "what happens when ponzi schemes deflate"

16:53:56 mircea_popescu: i expect there's going to be a "climatology winter" too starting next year, as opposed to "we lied for pay and after that the employer had no further use of lying pseudoscientists".

16:54:21 asciilifeform: already started, no ?

16:54:27 asciilifeform: (per yesterday's log)

16:54:35 mircea_popescu: "Lattice-based cryptography is another important candidate for post-quantum public-key cryptography, and is the main topic of this blog post. The main practical reason to consider lattice-based encryption rather than code-based encryption is that lattice-based systems advertise much smaller public keys." << WRONG.

16:54:52 mircea_popescu: small public key = you lose. small block = you lose. quickly computable = you lose.

16:55:02 mircea_popescu: get with the motherfucking program, bunch of snake oil salesmen.

16:55:13 asciilifeform: plus the whole climatology thing was a misguided excercise - the reich for some reason thought people would happily deindustrialize and starve out of religious fervor, but then understood that bayonet is good enough

16:55:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite yes

16:55:55 mircea_popescu: neither fervor nor bayonet. "people", if you can call english speakers that, will industrialize as they do : out of pompous laziness. that's how it always goes.

16:56:10 mircea_popescu: what color lipstick you put on that pig - vanitas vanitatum.

16:56:27 asciilifeform: deindustrialize.

16:56:37 mircea_popescu: industrialization is driven on the backs of starving slave/iobagi, and deindustrialization is driven by lazy, entitled idiots.

16:56:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's what i meant.

16:57:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67144 @ 0.0005707 = 38.3191 BTC [-] {3}

16:58:09 mircea_popescu: exact equivalent of the anabolic/catabolic processes in the human body. if there aren't people falling over in the street out of sheer hunger as an unremarkable phenomenon, there's no industrialization afoot. if there aren't any "self-betterment" dudes moving about, there's no dezindustrialization occurring.

16:59:21 mircea_popescu: re other thread : the only point of interest in lattice stuff would be homomorphisms. which don't work yet.

16:59:49 asciilifeform: actually mega-nonsecret, it sorta does work

16:59:55 asciilifeform: i have it right here at rupture farms

17:00:00 asciilifeform: not ~UNIVERSAL~, and provably

17:00:08 asciilifeform: but for 'certain values of works' - worx.

17:01:10 mircea_popescu: well kinda what i mean by doesn't work : "works for some values of work"

17:01:18 mircea_popescu: if i meant does not work at all i would make no mention whatever.

17:04:51 asciilifeform: it is provably not doable for arbitrary turing tape.

17:05:59 asciilifeform: back to earlier's thread, i am willing to pascal's wager on shor's algo SO LONG AS it costs me nothing.

17:06:04 asciilifeform: possibly unlike mircea_popescu

17:06:05 mircea_popescu: even going under that : afaik not yet usable in crypto

17:06:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform things may cost you nothing, that is your privilege. things always cost me something, because of my peculiar relationship with the fucking future.

17:07:47 asciilifeform: what does using multiple SANELY INDEPENDENT cipherators cost mircea_popescu ?

17:08:22 mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them.

17:08:26 asciilifeform: srsly, if there is one mega-lesson mircea_popescu taught me, it is that by DEMANDING sanity, you will get it

17:08:38 mircea_popescu: works for pussy, also.

17:09:03 mircea_popescu: the two are much closelier related than people generally wish to accept.

17:09:06 asciilifeform: incidentally, to pick up a thread from last night, one useful lemma re: chaining is,

17:09:17 asciilifeform: have multiple branches of possible inner cipher at every level

17:09:25 asciilifeform: enemy does not know which follows.

17:09:53 mircea_popescu: yes. always large block to small ; always few to many options.

17:09:57 mircea_popescu: branch it out like a tree.

17:10:08 asciilifeform: aha!

17:10:10 mircea_popescu: (this reduces to what the idiots do with their s boxes incidentally)

17:10:15 mircea_popescu: if a very ugly degenerate form.

17:10:28 asciilifeform: this is really a specificity-of-diddling theorem application.

17:10:33 mircea_popescu: aha

17:10:38 asciilifeform: eliminate things enemy may rely on.

17:11:34 mircea_popescu: so as you can no doubt follow, asciilifeform from the political considerations discussed it follows that while i don't allow for the possibility of "quantum computer", i don't disallow your implementing a scheme which would be deemed (by idiots) as "quantum resistant".

17:12:11 mircea_popescu: check out how complicated things get.

17:13:39 asciilifeform: aha!

17:13:51 asciilifeform: i can even see the dirigle algebra involved here !

17:13:55 asciilifeform: *dirigible

17:14:22 asciilifeform: see wat happens when earth bloke hangs out with martians long enough.

17:16:56 mircea_popescu: lol

17:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39000 @ 0.00057286 = 22.3415 BTC [+]

17:41:32 mircea_popescu: in other dirigible news, http://36.media.tumblr.com/ef5d53d5243383f25be482de122f3ffd/tumblr_nrg247qho71uu92gho1_1280.jpg

17:41:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1msMFiC )

18:11:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72250 @ 0.00057646 = 41.6492 BTC [+] {2}

18:25:38 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell danielpbarron improving

18:25:39 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:45:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212006 @ 0.00057137 = 121.1339 BTC [-] {5}

18:52:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80816 @ 0.00056964 = 46.036 BTC [-] {4}

18:54:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00056964 = 8.8864 BTC [-]

19:02:59 mircea_popescu: and in random lulz, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/want-your-own-version-of-bitcoin-hire-this-guy

19:03:00 assbot: Want Your Own Version of Bitcoin? Hire This Guy - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1WeCNp9 )

19:03:05 mircea_popescu: apparently it's "one of about 20" nao.

19:05:06 mircea_popescu: whereas in "tardstalk produces mp-wannabe #5476576985" news, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1358960

19:05:08 assbot: Reddit Censors Bitcoin 2.0 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WeD23w )

19:06:32 asciilifeform: is his name Sed ?

19:06:45 asciilifeform: 'hire this guy'

19:06:55 mircea_popescu: sed the hirethisguy.

19:09:19 asciilifeform: 3-5k per chump per mo. for doing jack shit?

19:09:21 asciilifeform: not bad

19:10:27 mircea_popescu: fiat money tho, not terribly useful.

19:11:07 asciilifeform: just 1 of these is enough to stay in roquefort and orc-free street

19:11:18 asciilifeform: useful enough.

19:11:32 asciilifeform: it won't buy a dirigible, no

19:11:43 BingoBoingo: from mp 2.0 link http://aeonisuniverse.tumblr.com/post/80638840931/rachael-chapter-1

19:11:45 assbot: Alpha Aeonis — Rachael - Chapter 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WeDA9r )

19:13:19 asciilifeform: 'I have been involved in Bitcoin since before the "Mt. Gox Fast Pay" thread that produced Bitinstant. My law cases make me the bearer of Bitcoin 2.0 no matter what. Bitcoin 2.0 is simply my daemon forked from a sued Ripple Labs qualified as an invention with features added and the Bitcoin upgrade address 1J7CAm6bavGcG52xgobn8n9ScnAzH8JZUm - I have pledged to drain the exchanges until exchange

19:13:25 asciilifeform: rate is zero across currencies and issue Bitcoin 2.0 based on incoming bitcoin and signatures made by participating addresses. This means the issuance honors mining until the end of bitcoin and can be more than total bitcoin present. I suspect 1 BTC 2.0 will have the spending power of 1 USD current by issuance. My pedigree.'

19:13:30 asciilifeform: ^ gold

19:16:27 mircea_popescu: pretty good yea

19:16:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/GLOSSARY.HTM#MultipleEncryption << re multi-cipher

19:16:42 assbot: Ritter's Crypto Glossary and Dictionary of Technical Cryptography ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q9fzCq )

19:16:45 asciilifeform: scroll to 'deceptive article'

19:17:16 mircea_popescu: "Since most conventional block ciphers are in fact product ciphers, they testify to the worth of multiple encryption, even with weak internal ciphering functions."

19:17:24 mircea_popescu: exactly what we were saying above re s boxes

19:17:28 asciilifeform: aha.

19:17:45 asciilifeform: but i'm blown away by the maurer & massey thing

19:18:16 asciilifeform: ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/crypto/publications/MauMas93a.pdf << found it.

19:18:33 mircea_popescu: i dunno that that particular item informs anything.

19:18:50 mircea_popescu: i for instance had never read it / wouldn't care to now.

19:18:50 asciilifeform: psychiatric, not mathematical.

19:18:57 asciilifeform: strictly for entomologists !

19:19:00 mircea_popescu: yeah but dunno.

19:26:04 asciilifeform: the paper is pretty tame, actually

19:26:11 asciilifeform: not sure why he picked it up as disinfo

19:26:43 mircea_popescu: no idea.

19:26:45 asciilifeform: arrives at howlingly obvious conclusion.

19:29:29 asciilifeform: (incidentally, the problem of an inner cipher introducing known-plaintextisms is solved routinely by splitting the payload into xor-able halves, using rng, and enciphering each ~half~ with different cipher, rather than box-in-box composition)

19:30:11 asciilifeform: ^ in this case, enemy actually must break both ciphers ~independently~

19:30:22 asciilifeform: he cannot use knownplaintextisms created by one, to help in the other

19:31:20 mircea_popescu: there are some schemes which, if the result is split, lose strength

19:31:27 asciilifeform: not by xor

19:31:31 asciilifeform: again the motherfucking xor lemma

19:31:33 asciilifeform: so hard to grasp ?

19:31:46 mircea_popescu: haha

19:31:48 asciilifeform: if i give you one half of a xor pair, it tells you ~nothing~ about the plaintext...

19:31:55 asciilifeform: and you can use shamir's split algo for n>2

19:32:01 asciilifeform: if you want >2 pieces.

19:32:17 mircea_popescu: i misread the split.

19:32:24 asciilifeform: ah

19:32:32 asciilifeform: what this gambit ~does~ cost, is weight

19:32:38 asciilifeform: you get 2x the ciphertext bitz.

19:32:52 mircea_popescu: look at the usual case : we exchange 1kb messages.

19:32:54 asciilifeform: plus whatever overhead from the individual cipherators.

19:32:59 mircea_popescu: if the increase is 100x this impacts nothing

19:33:13 mircea_popescu: similarly with the key. so large key can't be sent over the wire. bwahahahaha mkay.

19:33:47 mircea_popescu: (for the future, the ~ONLY way to get a key would be to ask trusted third party for it. such as hey x you know y ? send me his key!)

19:33:53 mircea_popescu: just like with chicks and their phone numbers.

19:36:00 asciilifeform: this is harmless, but to rely on the enemy having difficulty getting your pubkey is lunacy

19:36:07 mircea_popescu: not at all.

19:36:19 mircea_popescu: merely, that the "key over the wire in the jungle" aspect need not be accounted for.

19:36:41 asciilifeform: ah this - yes

19:36:45 mircea_popescu: getting rid of one of the most idiotic constraints people-who-are-not-me put on cipher design

19:36:58 asciilifeform: even with ip-over-dead-goat, 1MB key is what, a few min.

19:37:22 mircea_popescu: quite. now 1mb IS probably too large to be useful (unless actual mathematical need/benefit for it is shown)

19:37:37 mircea_popescu: but kbytes, puhleaze./

19:38:11 mircea_popescu: so i have to leave pc overnight / rng on for ten minutes to make a key ? big whoop, i make a key a year if that, and i'm an intensive user.

19:38:35 asciilifeform: one demonstrable benefit is that it multiplies the cost of brute force.

19:38:40 asciilifeform: pretty much for free.

19:41:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 48900 @ 0.00039598 = 19.3634 BTC [+]

19:45:07 asciilifeform: incidentally, imho mircea_popescu could write a splendid article about the xor lemma.

19:45:18 asciilifeform: and in the process, grasp it fully...

19:45:37 mircea_popescu: eh there is no grasping fully.

19:46:25 asciilifeform: how's that

19:48:04 mircea_popescu: just like that, of the crooked timber and all that.

19:50:35 asciilifeform: for whatever timber - arithmetic is the straightest saw we've got.

19:52:11 mircea_popescu: yes but i'm not in the business of carpentry.

19:52:45 asciilifeform: xor lemma is probably the closest thing we have to a fundamental theorem in crypto

19:52:56 asciilifeform: and i admit, i would greatly enjoy reading a mircea_popescu piece on same.

19:53:04 mircea_popescu: that's actually true huh

19:53:07 asciilifeform: aha.

19:54:26 *: mircea_popescu looks forward to a time when say berman's is a fundamental theorem in crypto

19:56:36 jurov: not sure it's even a crypto invention. noisy channel theory says basically the same (think channel with 50% bit flip noise)

19:57:30 asciilifeform: phun phakt, kotelnikov proved a good chunk of shannon, ~before~ shannon.

19:57:40 asciilifeform: during ww2 in fact.

20:01:04 mircea_popescu: jurov doesn't have to be invented in crypto to be fundamental for crypto

20:03:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'if a unary language

20:03:59 asciilifeform: is NP-complete then P = NP'

20:04:00 asciilifeform: ?

20:04:26 mircea_popescu: mno ?

20:05:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207792 @ 0.00057335 = 119.1375 BTC [+] {5}

20:05:02 mircea_popescu: did i say that somewhere ?

20:05:05 asciilifeform: berman's theorem

20:05:09 mircea_popescu: nono

20:06:08 mircea_popescu: !s real first order

20:06:09 assbot: 1 results for 'real first order' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=real+first+order

20:06:17 mircea_popescu: there.

20:07:12 asciilifeform: expand on this ?

20:09:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717188800038 << as per.

20:09:24 assbot: The complexity of linear problems in fields ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIPQBh )

20:10:04 mircea_popescu: basically showing that a+b < c is true or false for a, b, c in R is a harder-than-NP problem.

20:11:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 351600 @ 0.00058022 = 204.0054 BTC [+] {5}

20:12:03 asciilifeform: 'Sorry, your request could not be processed because the format of the URL was incorrect. Contact the Help Desk if the problem persists. [SD-001]' << l0l

20:12:17 mircea_popescu: sigh.

20:12:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, get his guy stuff from library, if can't be web'd (i spent a little trying to dig that one up).

20:13:05 mircea_popescu: did a lot of work on an interesting if oft neglected part of hardness / pressburger arithmetic etc.

20:13:08 asciilifeform: found it

20:13:22 asciilifeform: mega-backbreaker

20:14:13 mircea_popescu: (unlike peano, presburger is actually decidable. but it has no multiplication.

20:14:15 asciilifeform: i wil eat six airplanes before i go through this proof.

20:14:57 mircea_popescu: however - that decidability has a cost, and the cost is > exponential.

20:15:18 mircea_popescu: as a curio - this was a very promising field just about the time of mit ai being a very promising field

20:15:24 mircea_popescu: just like it - ALSO disappeared with virtually no trace.

20:15:56 mircea_popescu: the why and wherefore be left for students from the future.

20:16:10 asciilifeform: ww2 killed it.

20:16:13 asciilifeform: approximately.

20:16:19 mircea_popescu: this is 60s-70s and a little 80s.

20:16:41 asciilifeform: ah, i was thinking of Schönfinkel et al

20:16:53 mircea_popescu: no different bloom, this.

20:17:45 mircea_popescu: actually : the cost is shown to be double-exponential. fischer & rabin 1974.

20:17:46 asciilifeform: if this, it rose and fell with the career of s. cook.

20:17:46 mircea_popescu: http://www.lcs.mit.edu/publications/pubs/ps/MIT-LCS-TM-043.ps

20:19:32 asciilifeform: but yes, it is all now buried beneath many layers of sediment.

20:19:58 asciilifeform: we can dig up a little, but it is a bit like digging pompei

20:20:04 mircea_popescu: i originally gave it as an example to stand pro toto for a larger set. specifically - that hunting the p = np thing is a waste of time, when there are in point of fact items known to be harder than np.

20:20:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57208 @ 0.00057703 = 33.0107 BTC [-]

20:20:30 mircea_popescu: but yes, expect all such items to be buried in well - curated burial pits.

20:20:33 mircea_popescu: for the obvious reasons.

20:21:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 286459 @ 0.0005665 = 162.279 BTC [-] {7}

20:22:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166891 @ 0.00056339 = 94.0247 BTC [-] {3}

20:22:43 asciilifeform: (most elementarily - tricks involving time travel)

20:28:37 mircea_popescu: hm ?

20:28:39 asciilifeform: or everett's solution !

20:28:47 asciilifeform: (by some accounts - he USED it! )

20:29:16 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:29:30 asciilifeform: l0l mircea_popescu knows what it was.

20:29:49 asciilifeform: or hm, was it his daughter who did.

20:30:25 asciilifeform: (for n00bz: pistol is connected to a recognizer box, shoots you in the head in all universes where rng did not shit out the solution)

20:30:35 mircea_popescu: i suppose h. everett is the foundational lemma of sf.

20:30:56 mircea_popescu: "multiverses" and all that.

20:31:08 asciilifeform: in a way, we all use everett's device every day.

20:31:32 mircea_popescu: in the same way, we also go to bed with the empress-consort of china every night.

20:31:46 asciilifeform: the retarded, careless, or otherwise incapacitated versions of mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are not here.

20:32:06 mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea "i don't care"

20:32:07 assbot: 69 results for 'from:mircea "i don't care"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea+%22i+don%27t+care%22

20:32:12 mircea_popescu: 69 begs to differ.

20:33:17 mircea_popescu: http://www.philipp.ruemmer.org/princess.shtml << perhaps interesting re presburger

20:33:18 assbot: Princess ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qs17Q3 )

20:34:09 asciilifeform: spiffy, now if only it weren't javatronic

20:34:31 mircea_popescu: source provided.

20:34:43 asciilifeform: yeah let's somebody translate from the cuneiform.

20:35:00 mircea_popescu: iirc, eu was spending some decent money on a derivative to evaluate safety of embedded systems

20:35:11 asciilifeform: the mega-champ is acl2.

20:35:12 asciilifeform: !s acl2

20:35:12 assbot: 3 results for 'acl2' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=acl2

20:35:29 *: asciilifeform has the b00k, and the worked-examples one

20:35:50 asciilifeform: used at, e.g., amd, to prove the correctness of their alu.

20:35:56 asciilifeform: (after the intel debacle)

20:36:01 mircea_popescu: http://www.cesarproject.eu/ there we go. "To maintain the European leading edge position in the transportation as well as automation market, CESAR aims to boost cost efficiency of embedded systems development and safety and certification processes by an order of magnitude."

20:36:02 assbot: Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qs1udB )

20:36:45 asciilifeform: cute. the same folks as did the block cipher contest

20:36:50 asciilifeform: (how did that end?)

20:36:55 mircea_popescu: mmm.

20:37:15 mircea_popescu: "a contest of which nothing is known but the name", i guess.

20:37:42 asciilifeform: mno?

20:37:43 asciilifeform: https://competitions.cr.yp.to/caesar.html

20:37:45 assbot: Crypto competitions: CAESAR: Competition for Authenticated Encryption: Security, Applicability, and Robustness ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qs1LNv )

20:37:56 asciilifeform: e.g., https://competitions.cr.yp.to/caesar-submissions.html

20:37:56 assbot: Crypto competitions: CAESAR submissions ... ( http://bit.ly/1VQIJ7l )

20:38:24 mircea_popescu: M18, 2015.09.28?29: DIAC 2015: Directions in Authenticated Ciphers 2015. Singapore.

20:38:25 mircea_popescu: TBA: Deadline for Verilog/VHDL.

20:38:25 mircea_popescu: TBA: Announcement of third-round candidates.

20:38:26 mircea_popescu: mmkay ?

20:38:58 asciilifeform: not over yet?

20:38:59 mircea_popescu: i guess the correct answe is "not ended yet"

20:39:01 mircea_popescu: right.

20:39:56 asciilifeform: https://competitions.cr.yp.to/disasters.html << lulzy

20:39:57 assbot: Crypto competitions: Disasters ... ( http://bit.ly/1Td7fBR )

20:40:08 mircea_popescu: getting back to the yurpean news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/9ceab92925686acf64f20918a67aa6d8/tumblr_npr78ccRwA1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

20:40:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Td7gpv )

20:42:51 mircea_popescu: There is an extensive, and apparently never-ending, literature on "lightweight identification protocols" such as HB, HB+, HB++, HB-MP, HB*, Trusted-HB, and HBsharp. Each of these protocols was broken within one year of being proposed. Note that any authenticated cipher can trivially be used for identification: the challenger sends a random message; the prover sends back the same message, authenticated.

20:42:53 mircea_popescu: loller.

20:44:02 asciilifeform: !up Conflict

20:44:15 shinohai: https://medium.com/@ItsJoshProbably/why-8chan-will-not-be-getting-infinity-next-d8116d162c7#.16hdhdhnv

20:44:16 assbot: Why 8chan will not be getting Infinity Next. — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Td7CMQ )

20:45:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the crapple power cable thread? device makers want 'authenticator' in every candy wrapper. and so are drawn to crackpot 'ten transistors!1111' auth schemes like moths to flames

20:46:02 mircea_popescu: aha.

20:46:09 mircea_popescu: it's lulzy how shitthy these are.

20:46:41 mircea_popescu: i guess someone should make a three-mosfet hash function. just spit out the 1/f pink.

20:46:42 asciilifeform: the schmuck peddling group-theoretical crypto firm at 'shmoocon' wanted auth chips in pills

20:47:09 mircea_popescu: "hashing - works ; reproducibility - not yet. BUT IT IS UNBREAKABLE!"

20:47:13 asciilifeform: l0l!

20:47:21 asciilifeform: spreadingworks!

20:49:03 mircea_popescu: copypaste ^

20:49:25 mircea_popescu: ah by now two days old. i guess stale huh.

20:49:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31000 @ 0.00057166 = 17.7215 BTC [+] {2}

20:50:10 mircea_popescu: chanz dramas.

20:50:44 asciilifeform: the other mega-nonsecret,

20:50:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00057424 = 2.7276 BTC [+]

20:50:54 asciilifeform: usg ~really~ wants non-clonable, non-spoofable cheap rfid

20:50:57 asciilifeform: to spread everywhere

20:51:19 mircea_popescu: gotta track 'em goats.

20:51:20 asciilifeform: 'smart dust' etc.

20:51:29 asciilifeform: track every used napkin.

20:51:30 mircea_popescu: but yes. however, unfortunately for them, this is a very hard problem.

20:51:41 copypaste: mircea_popescu: yes already stale

20:51:56 mircea_popescu: anything good in there ?

20:54:12 asciilifeform: phun phakt, many (most?) auto tyres already infested with (ordinary) rfid

20:54:24 asciilifeform: plain old serial # transponder.

20:55:47 mircea_popescu: that's actually a very close solution. about as good as it gets in terms of your dream "sunken bubbles in the ocean"

20:56:03 mircea_popescu: costs more to cut the tyre and replace or make a replacement than it costs to let it be.

20:57:03 shinohai: copypaste: was very much a tl;dr

20:57:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can burn them remotely

20:57:40 asciilifeform: elementary.

20:57:45 mircea_popescu: !up PierreDe

20:57:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes but then won't have one.

20:58:27 asciilifeform: will - once you inject new one

20:58:36 asciilifeform: hence why they want micro-authenticator.

20:58:53 asciilifeform: right now you can trivially make replacement chip with arbitrary #

20:59:04 mircea_popescu: i suppose once people get serious about it, it could be made to cost less than the tyre.

20:59:28 asciilifeform: also the things cost about a dime now

20:59:33 asciilifeform: which means only a handful per tyre

20:59:41 asciilifeform: if they were smaller...

21:05:54 mircea_popescu: "I understand a business has to make money. 8chan needs to make money to survive, but making money and being open source is not mutually exclusive. Lots of sites do it, including reddit, one of the biggest sites on the Internet today."

21:06:00 mircea_popescu: ajhaha what the fuck is wrong with these retards.

21:06:16 mircea_popescu: "emperor palpatine" and "reddit, one of the blabla". 1) reddit is shit ; 2) reddit never made any fucking money.

21:06:45 asciilifeform: is open source ? wut?

21:06:59 mircea_popescu: i dunno that i'd eat salami made out of kids today.

21:06:59 asciilifeform: where do i read the vote fudge algo ?

21:08:29 mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they're drinking, but there's this cloud of pointedly useless 20somethings floating around in this lalaland of delusional thinking the likes of which has not been seen ever since the turks wore the byzantine "aristocratic" kids as cock decorations five centuries ago.

21:09:05 asciilifeform: and there wasn't, in '93 ?

21:09:16 mircea_popescu: reddit makes money and is important, star wars is an acceptable font of comparisons, "exaggeration" in the sense of cracked.com retardation is an acceptable stylistic maneuver, and the list just goes on and on.

21:09:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no dude. 20yo in '93 was fucking afraid of getting a beatdown.

21:10:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5393 @ 0.00057148 = 3.082 BTC [-] {2}

21:10:11 mircea_popescu: these delusioanl urchins are so used to seeing themselves as a sort of neo-in-matrix that it just doesn't compute.

21:10:22 asciilifeform: eternal september looks much the same now as then

21:10:47 asciilifeform: what really changed is the lack of reference.

21:10:55 mircea_popescu: to my eyes, sept 93 looks like the flu as compared to this bubonic leprosy varicella.

21:11:02 asciilifeform: in '93 there ~were~ functioning industries that set a standard for wrangling physical reality.

21:11:07 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:11:16 asciilifeform: whereas today 'vc billionaire'

21:11:19 mircea_popescu: but this is important! these shitheads are ENTIRELY self referential now.

21:11:39 asciilifeform: aha.

21:11:42 asciilifeform: arse-mouth.

21:12:03 asciilifeform: best restaurant is a hose!111

21:12:19 mircea_popescu: i think as the collapse advances, i will be very hard pressed to resist the temptation to take a trip over to sf and just serb the fucking place.

21:12:47 mircea_popescu: go door to door, beat all males to death, rape all females, load them up in trucks and ship them to fucking bahrein. what the everliving fuck, these people should not live.

21:13:45 mircea_popescu: i had no idea genocide could be so intellectually appealing.

21:15:32 mircea_popescu: but hey, "i guess now you know how the ''syrian refugees'' feel".

21:15:49 asciilifeform: i thought they felt 'hey, free shit'

21:16:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11833 @ 0.00056705 = 6.7099 BTC [-] {2}

21:16:21 mircea_popescu: mno.

21:16:34 mircea_popescu: i think it's a lot more like "look, befouled real estate"

21:16:52 mircea_popescu: "copper sulphate and planks with nails, clean this shit out"

21:17:57 asciilifeform: the 'cleaners' are 100% catabolic.

21:18:05 asciilifeform: left alone, they could not make even a goat.

21:18:31 mircea_popescu: the cleaners are how you even have the word algorithm.

21:18:41 asciilifeform: ahaha l0l no.

21:18:48 asciilifeform: no more than modern egypt built the pyramids.

21:19:00 mircea_popescu: well i guess this point shall be verified in practice huh.

21:19:16 mircea_popescu: there's no stopping the cleansing, i dun think.

21:19:35 asciilifeform: limonov understood in '92

21:19:51 asciilifeform: the western mental asylum can do many things to many people, but cannot make them ~want to live~

21:20:45 asciilifeform: even orwell in '43 essay understood why, e.g., hitler is appealing vs the insipid fossil civilization orwell inhabited

21:21:31 asciilifeform: and germany was an only slightly better-looking horse at that glue factory, even.

21:22:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey what's all the rumour of a euro resistance movement ? disinfo ?

21:23:02 asciilifeform: wishful thinking ?

21:30:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 278116 @ 0.00057474 = 159.8444 BTC [+] {6}

21:33:50 danielpbarron: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CapAL87WIAA6k9M.jpg:large << cargocult othernews

21:33:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20McD3q )

21:38:20 mircea_popescu: no idea.

21:39:04 mircea_popescu: but as best i can discern, any sort of "resistance movement" would be in the sense of "we'll do the raping and pillaging ourselves, who are these foreign derps" rather than "we'll defend the shithole".

21:39:25 mircea_popescu: so only very technically a "resistance", more like a first-to-kick-the-loser competition.

21:39:50 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron wassat ?

21:44:07 danielpbarron: idk i found it on twatter

21:44:30 mircea_popescu: looks like some sort of "happening" or w/e.

21:48:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74587 @ 0.00055972 = 41.7478 BTC [-] {4}

21:57:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74450 @ 0.00056044 = 41.7248 BTC [+] {3}

22:14:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128289 @ 0.00055761 = 71.5352 BTC [-] {5}

22:21:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00055441 = 11.1436 BTC [-]

22:27:14 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump to win South Carolina Republican Primary - http://bitbet.us/bet/1244/donald-trump-to-win-south-carolina-republican-primary/#b20

22:34:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103518 @ 0.00056368 = 58.351 BTC [+] {4}

22:37:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24282 @ 0.00057174 = 13.883 BTC [+]

22:51:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00057159 = 13.4895 BTC [-] {2}

22:55:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16952 @ 0.0005716 = 9.6898 BTC [+]

23:12:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00057586 = 43.6502 BTC [+]

23:16:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16216 @ 0.00057586 = 9.3381 BTC [+]

23:17:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38620 @ 0.00057771 = 22.3112 BTC [+]

23:20:34 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bernie Sanders will be Democrats' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1242/bernie-sanders-will-be-democrats-2016-presidential-nominee/#b19

23:20:35 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump to win South Carolina Republican Primary - http://bitbet.us/bet/1244/donald-trump-to-win-south-carolina-republican-primary/#b21

23:41:04 mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/us0sd#selection-1883.0-1885.0 << hearnia lolz.

23:41:05 assbot: What Roger Ver thinks about Theymos? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KGmQHo )

23:45:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00057332 = 22.3021 BTC [-] {2}

23:48:04 shinohai: keks

23:48:51 shinohai: What's Roger Ver doing on bitcointalk anyway since he built his own forum to be a beacon of free speech?

23:49:38 mircea_popescu: nobody cared and he's a drama queen ?

23:50:03 *: mircea_popescu recalls the lulzier years in 2011-2012 back when roger ver was actually pretending to be like, a business man, and stuff.

23:51:13 mircea_popescu: in trotally not related news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/c17818ea6e6cd57d36f47b8f84b0acff/tumblr_nwmlm4UySD1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg

23:51:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KGo1qf )

23:52:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58750 @ 0.00057606 = 33.8435 BTC [+]

23:57:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11175 @ 0.0005696 = 6.3653 BTC [-] {2}

23:58:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 286608 @ 0.00055835 = 160.0276 BTC [-] {5}