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Transcript for 10-03-2016, 1376 lines:

00:33:16 mircea_popescu: in other news, arstechnica "mathematically proves" holocaust never happened : http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/02/large-scale-conspiracies-are-mathematically-impossible-to-keep-quiet/

00:33:17 assbot: Large-scale conspiracies are mathematically impossible to keep quiet | Ars Technica UK ... ( http://bit.ly/220WMyP )

00:33:36 mircea_popescu: thanks god we got rid of algebra ii in time for the education of arstechnica staff.

00:34:13 asciilifeform: well they had manhattan project but then ran out of conspiratronium so dun work no moar

00:34:14 asciilifeform: or sumthing.

00:34:27 mircea_popescu: no dude it is mathematically impossibru!

00:34:47 mircea_popescu: large scale conspiracy such as telling idiots they're not idiots could never happen. why would an idiot ever believe he's not an idiot ?!

00:36:03 mircea_popescu: what, next you're going to say we have actual proof the usg had been running a string of massive conspiracies, such as you know, inserting backdoors in software, such as "parallel construction", such as iran contra, such as whatever the hell.

00:36:47 mircea_popescu: but anyway - now that ars technica has proven that black slavery never happened, we can go back to separate but equal, i guess.

00:39:19 fluffypony: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484447/Romanian-wife-rips-husband-s-testicles-International-Women-s-Day-refused-housework.html

00:39:19 assbot: Romanian wife rips off husband's testicles on International Women's Day after he refused to do housework | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/220XyM2 )

00:41:19 mircea_popescu: http://www.evz.ro/o-femeie-i-a-taiat-testiculele-sotului-sau-pentru-ca-nu-i-a-luat-flori-de-8-martie.html << holy shit it's real.

00:41:21 assbot: ATAC BIZAR de 8 Martie: O femeie i-a TĂIAT TESTICULELE soţului său pentru că nu i-a luat FLORI ... ( http://bit.ly/220XLih )

00:41:46 mircea_popescu: (the issue seems to be over not getting flowers for 8th march, "mother's day" in commie lands)

00:43:39 mircea_popescu: http://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MRImage/2016/03/08/56df0b335ab6550cb8a30785/646x404.jpg

00:43:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1R81ZJC )

00:43:56 mircea_popescu: rural northwestern ro, sorta redneck land.

00:45:08 asciilifeform: dulap!

00:46:05 nubbins`: wow lel, this is old but

00:46:06 nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703956.msg7982877#msg7982877

00:46:09 assbot: [Havelock] HASH - Mining Equipment Sales, Contracts, More ... ( http://bit.ly/220YqR1 )

00:46:14 mircea_popescu: anyway. apparnetly, not married, living together for 15 years, he owns the house, she's basically a tramp, dude drinks and nonconsensually humiliates the woman, had been driving her nuts the whole night, she lost it, is now sorry, tried to fix on teh spot, visits at hospital etc.

00:46:14 nubbins`: ^ re: the20yearplan / rentalstarter

00:46:16 mircea_popescu: a real life drama.

00:54:14 mircea_popescu: in happier news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdeqz8YFva1rq3gc6o1_1280.jpg

00:54:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1R831FF )

01:14:44 BingoBoingo: ;;nethash

01:14:46 gribble: 1206873564.77

01:33:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052323 = 1.779 BTC [-] {4}

01:45:15 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

01:45:19 gribble: Current Blocks: 401953 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1246 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

01:56:44 mircea_popescu: !up jidan

01:58:36 jidan: thanks

02:03:47 mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?

02:04:35 jidan: just a pleb.. hoping to see some chat

02:07:00 mircea_popescu: enjoy.

02:10:53 deedbot-: [Qntra] Mainstream Media Hyping US Legacy In Iraq: Iraqi Made Chemical Weapons - http://qntra.net/2016/03/mainstream-media-hyping-us-legacy-in-iraq-iraqi-made-chemical-weapons/

02:26:07 BingoBoingo: In other lulz http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Anonymous-tip-claims-raw-milk-caused-illnesses-at-Capitol-371487251.html

02:26:09 assbot: Anonymous tip claims raw milk caused illnesses at Capitol ... ( http://bit.ly/1RS6fjH )

02:44:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428363 << ahahahaha ad if there were connected people here !

02:44:10 assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 23:44:28; mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way he could have made economic sense was by marketing the spare cycles of well connected people here - outside.

02:44:50 asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu , who doesn't hire anyone but plumbers, does not for this purpose count )

02:45:06 asciilifeform: *as if

02:45:36 asciilifeform: or did i read that backwards ?

02:46:22 asciilifeform: and does anyone here actually have spare cycles.

02:47:05 BingoBoingo: for some definitions of spare

02:49:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428365 << i do unspeakable things to pay billz (not in a literal cube, but this is the ~one~ saving grace)

02:49:22 assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 23:44:52; mircea_popescu: just ask alf.

02:50:45 asciilifeform: but yes, the ONLY possible thing i would ever consider a job upgrade is ... not having to leave the house, or talk

02:52:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428367 << pigs will not only fly, but to mars.

02:52:07 assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 23:49:08; mircea_popescu: i suppose to be cracked the same way all of them get cracked - guy with immense downlist and very well connected gets off his lazy, stupid fiat-ass and goes through the wot selection process. then has enough spots specific and high level enough to interest the locals. seems a tall order.

02:59:51 asciilifeform: ;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com

02:59:55 gribble: log.bitcoin-assets.com is down

03:00:07 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: ?

03:04:46 asciilifeform: hm, nm?

03:06:30 kakobrekla: it seems it was down for 3 minutes

03:10:40 asciilifeform: interesting.

03:16:37 kakobrekla: and again apparently

04:14:36 gernika: asciilifeform: do you operate the EE Tools EeRom-8U (I think you referenced it in the logs recently) with windows? If so, with which 10 foot pole?

04:14:51 asciilifeform: gernika: working on reversed driver.

04:15:03 gernika: of course

04:15:43 gernika: for personal use only?

04:15:50 asciilifeform: eventually will post.

04:15:54 gernika: sweet

04:15:59 asciilifeform: for the 5 people or so worldwide who give a fuck.

04:16:22 asciilifeform: kinda like what i did here, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=668

04:16:24 assbot: Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )

04:16:34 gernika: It looked like there was a dos util for it -- then I realized that was from 1999.

04:16:45 asciilifeform: that was for prev version

04:16:48 asciilifeform: with, iirc, parallel port.

04:16:55 asciilifeform: unobtainable today.

04:17:17 asciilifeform: lulzily, eerom uses ~same chipset as the linked ^ above !!

04:17:31 asciilifeform: (inside is also a xilinx fpga and some sram.)

04:19:48 asciilifeform: but to go back to original question, yes, winblowz crapolade runs on boxes designated for the purpose

04:19:55 asciilifeform: (normally used to run malware)

04:21:27 gernika: ok. bleh. one more laptop laying around the house couldn't hurt I guess.

04:21:52 asciilifeform: gernika: what's your use case for eerom ?

04:22:46 gernika: I'm just going to try out some z80 stuff. seems easier to use this than flashing eeproms.

04:22:51 asciilifeform: sure is.

04:23:18 asciilifeform: comes with two snakes, can stuff right in the place of a 1980s rom.

04:23:43 gernika: oh yeah - wasn't clear to me how to plug the thing in

04:23:47 asciilifeform: the thing also can, apparently, emulate an sram, and even generically master an 8-bit bus

04:23:52 asciilifeform: but i have not tried this yet.

07:58:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052437 = 2.3072 BTC [+] {3}

08:26:14 punkman: http://searchengineland.com/rip-google-pagerank-retrospective-244286

08:26:16 assbot: RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web ... ( http://bit.ly/1TvcDRh )

08:57:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> or did i read that backwards ? <<< seems so ?

09:52:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> for the 5 people or so worldwide << oif which apparently two here ?

10:19:53 mircea_popescu: assbot> RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web << this is not an idle comment. google, like every other usg item, like usg collectively, was entrusted with great responsibility in many fields after the war.

10:20:07 mircea_popescu: without exception it fucked up ALL of these. and not lightly fuck them up, either.

10:43:06 mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence available outside the w

10:43:06 mircea_popescu: alls, and more likely than not we'll be stuck picking between a warty rat and a sickly mole.

10:43:46 mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.

10:47:04 davout: i'm really not convinced we'll see a HF this year

10:47:35 mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced either. but there's the possibility.

10:48:41 davout: !s segwit

10:48:42 assbot: 26 results for 'segwit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=segwit

10:49:38 mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.

10:51:47 jurov: extract alf from mordor?

10:52:21 mircea_popescu: but hwat if the princess is in another castle!

10:52:32 jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?

10:53:14 mircea_popescu: well ideally a sane pow ; better ciphers ; etc.

10:53:20 davout: pogo's still high on my personal what-do-if-spare-cycles list

10:53:20 mircea_popescu: but by and large, a working miner people can deploy.

10:53:34 mircea_popescu: davout how's that coming along ?

10:54:29 davout: not much happening on my side

11:52:17 danielpbarron: !up kodemurani

11:57:22 *: shinohai will take notes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463

11:57:22 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.

12:00:59 kodemurani: wondering if there is any discussion here on ether

12:01:41 kodemurani: Thank you danielpbarron for the voice

12:02:16 shinohai: Plenty of discussion here. When there isn't, there is a plethora of information in the logs.

12:04:01 kodemurani: Thanks shinohai. Going through the logs

12:04:32 shinohai: !h

12:04:32 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

12:04:37 shinohai: also that

12:05:19 davout: kodemurani: https://medium.com/@bedeho/why-your-ethereum-project-will-most-likely-fail-d14b6d8f1c7c#.oqv393xrf <<< interesting, re ether

12:05:20 assbot: Why your Ethereum project will most likely fail — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wbtsyp )

12:05:35 davout: "The lesson of the very well built lighthouse Bitcoin project, which has resulted in no more than a few thousand dollars of funding over the past years, has to be that there is extremely little value to be gained by introducing trustless escrow in crowdfunding. Even if you wanted to crowdfund something very controversial, where traditional web platforms will ban you, its not at all clear that disintermediating holding funds before cap is re

12:05:35 davout: ached is a big part of making this type of crowdfunding effective. Even worse, the project organizer could always fund the remainder of the contract privately, hence it is not at all clear that there is any actual gain of security. While it was a nice use of SIGHASH_ALL, it really solved a non-problem"

12:05:43 davout: ^guy has it

12:07:20 shinohai: Ether is simply a Rube Goldbergesque way of making money for it's founder to buy a lifetime supply of Retin-A. When he has it *poof*

12:08:08 davout: "The best case scenario for most of these projects is that there are end user benefits for other reasons, and that Ethereum is not required to deliver them. The complexity, and cost, of doing blockchain based products will in such cases eventually drive such products off chain, the same way changetip eventually went off-chain, and now recently into fiat mode."

12:14:52 fluffypony: davout: I made that exact argument at a meetup in Berlin last year where someone presented some junk they're building on Ethereum

12:15:06 shinohai: "This is the Ethereum app directory with all non-working, gambling and meta apps removed." https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png <<< I kek'd at this.

12:15:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )

12:15:14 fluffypony: and I asked them why they were building on Ethereum, and despite much hand-waving they couldn't give me an actual reason

12:17:07 fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so

12:17:49 davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain

12:17:55 davout: 1. decentralized timestamping

12:18:01 davout: 2. making taxes optional

12:18:29 davout: bbl

12:27:46 shinohai: !up kodemurani

12:29:35 punkman: https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png << we have pretty much all of those here :D

12:29:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )

12:29:46 kodemurani: That report on ethereum is rather discouraging. (why ehtereum project will most likely fail) :-(

12:30:06 kodemurani: May be true

12:31:49 shinohai: heh punkman you are right! xD

12:33:48 fluffypony: kodemurani: this is not new information

12:34:04 fluffypony: all rational, thinking people have known this to be the expected outcome from the very beginning

12:35:32 danielpbarron: welp, AlphaGo is 2-0

12:35:48 asciilifeform: moar of the same.

12:35:52 asciilifeform: as last night.

12:36:22 danielpbarron: glad i didn't bet

12:36:35 danielpbarron: sfyl

12:36:39 asciilifeform: l0l

12:37:05 asciilifeform: losing at bbet is pretty much the only place i can blow btc !

12:37:24 asciilifeform: (it is certainly where most of the ones i ever had, went.)

12:37:28 danielpbarron: i'm pretty good at doing that too

12:38:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 << guess what ~i personally won't ever be caught dead doing~ ???

12:38:09 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai

12:38:38 asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~

12:39:14 asciilifeform: because not separable from usg in any meaningful way except - DEFINITIONALLY - by entering the wot and doing a LONG tour of duty as a Real Person

12:40:41 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428468 << again, anyone who wants to follow a usg fork, can do it without me. and who wants to use a prb fork of whatever variety or rationale, can do it without me. ditto halfcocked crud conceived to enrich chinese scum.

12:40:41 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:49:38; mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.

12:41:33 asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'

12:42:27 shinohai: I will use trb as long as it works on the overall network, failing that I will have to find something else to occupy my time.

12:42:30 asciilifeform: this pointedly does not mean that i am interested in attempting to wash the smell of shit off a rando sickly rat from rando sewer.

12:42:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428471 << ada.

12:42:51 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:52:32; jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?

12:43:11 asciilifeform: i am sick and tired of there being usg c/cpp code in the loop ANYWHERE.

12:43:27 asciilifeform: ENOUGH wotless nonboundschecked language.

12:44:53 asciilifeform: (i loathe ada, but this needs a BOUNDS-CHECKED language where i can AUDIT THE BINARY and NO RUNTIME COMPONENT / GC - which leaves exactly ONE)

12:45:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428469 << l0l you and with what crane, will extract.

12:45:29 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:51:47; jurov: extract alf from mordor?

12:47:32 asciilifeform: it would, i suspect, take me 1/2 y to 1y of UNINTERRUPTED full time to come up with the goods. which pointedly isn't in any danger of happening.

12:48:50 asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.

12:50:47 asciilifeform: i will repeat, i have NO interest in any 'bitcoin replacement' originating from outside of the wot.

12:50:49 shinohai: As I told mod6 I do not advocate surrender myself :/

12:51:02 asciilifeform: anybody who wants to surrender, can go and do it without me.

12:52:51 jurov: so whole shiva stuff is ded alley for you?

12:53:01 asciilifeform: jurov: it is for working on trb !

12:53:18 jurov: oh i misunderstood

12:53:28 danielpbarron: who suggested using a non-wot fork??

12:53:52 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.

12:54:06 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 <<< this?

12:54:06 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai

12:54:20 asciilifeform: aha.

12:54:35 asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.

12:54:48 danielpbarron: oh, ew

12:55:11 shinohai: mircea_popescu is under stress lately perhaps and needs a nice lsd trip to put things in perspective :D

12:56:07 asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?

12:56:28 *: danielpbarron once had a 'vial' of the stuff; used it to put drops on sugar cubes, eat and go for bike ride in the summer

12:57:10 *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible

12:57:16 shinohai: lsd usually inspires clarity of thought and creativity tho.

12:57:29 danielpbarron: still had a little left for my great purge when i burned the contents of my drug box as well as some eastern philosophy texts and my karate uniform

12:58:53 shinohai: Heh I forgot I have mebbe 1/2 gram of 25C-nBOMe left xD

12:59:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'

12:59:27 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:49; davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain

13:00:18 danielpbarron: yeah that's the question.. what to 'divest' into.. old computer parts?

13:00:49 shinohai: That's mainly what I use BTC for - equipment. (When I can actually acquire it!)

13:00:57 danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already

13:01:05 asciilifeform: i have NO use for btc other than escape glider from my auschwitz

13:01:25 asciilifeform: and this means absolutely NO use for sub-orbital quantity.

13:01:37 asciilifeform: except to 'hodl'.

13:02:36 danielpbarron: although without a bitcoin i don't have much interest in computer parts anyway, so that's a catch-22

13:03:02 danielpbarron: i had all but given up on computers entirely until i found bitcoin

13:03:35 danielpbarron: for several years even

13:04:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428562 << it is set up right here.

13:04:13 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:00:57; danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already

13:04:31 danielpbarron: i got that hp workstation you recommened

13:04:38 asciilifeform: i recommended it ?!

13:04:40 asciilifeform: l0l

13:04:57 danielpbarron: you linked some thing on ebay, has amd processer and ecc ram or whatever

13:05:05 asciilifeform: aha but i didn't buy it!

13:05:20 asciilifeform: i don't buy whole computer (other than portables, for restricted uses)

13:05:27 asciilifeform: and don't recommend to others to do it!

13:05:45 asciilifeform: notice how mircea_popescu pointedly also doesn't ?

13:06:15 asciilifeform: but re: the sommelier thing, i would happily supply folks with sane hardware, but this would 1) take serious time & effort while 2) wouldn't pay my billz

13:06:18 asciilifeform: so it ain't happening.

13:06:26 asciilifeform: just liek many other things, won't be happening.

13:06:59 asciilifeform: i am having to work 14-18 hrs/day (including slavemine) just to make some of these not-happenings possibly happen.

13:08:18 danielpbarron: how much do you need for this year off to build sane trb ? maybe we can crowdfund it

13:08:32 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i'd have to spend half of that year looking for next work.

13:08:43 asciilifeform: and half of what remains, as usg tax

13:08:47 danielpbarron: next work is maintaining said trb

13:09:01 asciilifeform: also on loose change from folks' sofa cushions ?!

13:09:02 asciilifeform: l0l

13:09:22 danielpbarron: well i got nothing else to spend my stupid btc on

13:11:00 asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade

13:11:05 asciilifeform: but that is pointedly not what we have here.

13:11:28 asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing

13:11:45 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428526 <<< have to disagree here, bitcoin had value to me sometime in 2010, the minute i finished the white-paper

13:11:45 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:41:33; asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'

13:11:54 asciilifeform: davout: value to me also.

13:12:05 asciilifeform: but i was speaking of value to usg looters.

13:12:21 asciilifeform: who have a five-minute attention span and atrocious tunnel vision, and need ~immediates~

13:17:48 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428558 <<< true, all these points neatly coalesce into "actually being money" anyway

13:17:48 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:59:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'

13:18:20 danielpbarron: asciilifeform> the 'reddit appeal' of what we do << i didn't mean reaching out any further than in this very channel

13:20:18 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu believes (and i'm not convinced that he's wrong) that hiring people lowers them into pederasty. and he's the ~only fella with money here. so then.

13:20:31 danielpbarron: i have some

13:21:22 asciilifeform: we're talking about ~= 1/2m u.s. here.

13:21:47 danielpbarron: 20 people with 25k

13:22:44 asciilifeform: danielpbarron must have eaten that last vial of lsd! i sincerely wish him a good trip. but now i gotta go and start the engine and ride to the place where i sit on a stake for most every day.

13:22:45 *: asciilifeform bbl.

13:30:05 shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.

13:30:13 punkman: you need $500k a year ?!

13:36:51 punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.

13:39:18 davout: punkman: unless these particular inputs are blacklisted by the Chinese Cartel(TM)

13:39:48 danielpbarron: is it funny?

13:50:50 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: "Pederasty is an ancient Greek form of interaction in which members of the same sex would partake in the pleasures of an intellectual and/or sexual relationship as part of a socially acceptable ancient custom " << uh ok...

13:51:41 thestringpuller: "a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male. "

13:55:25 jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired

13:56:24 nubbins`: never too late

13:56:48 nubbins`: still no signed financials from s.bbet

13:56:57 nubbins`: s.mpoe still tanking

13:57:07 nubbins`: still business as usual

13:57:15 *: danielpbarron stabs nubbins`

13:57:34 nubbins`: * danielpbarron hugs nubbins`

13:57:37 nubbins`: wai what?

13:57:50 nubbins`: i thought you didn't like me anymore

13:57:53 danielpbarron: that's a violation of the rules you like to cite so much

13:58:10 nubbins`: o.O

13:59:02 danielpbarron: >> On the other hand professional also implies that you understand how context works, and will never ever under any circumstances omit relevant context when quoting, especially when such omission changes the meaning of your quote and the quoted then has to point this out to you like you were some sort of politician or assimilated retard.

13:59:03 nubbins`: which rule now?

13:59:33 *: nubbins` searches for something he quoted, comes up blank

14:00:10 nubbins`: danielpbarron your logic doesn't follow, again

14:00:15 jurov: nubbins`: i take it you're stabbing/hugging each other in the pederasty context

14:00:23 danielpbarron: l0l

14:00:28 nubbins`: jurov danielpbarron has a lot to learn, he's come to me for guidance

14:00:33 nubbins`: he's a tough pupil

14:00:43 danielpbarron: at least i'm not the catamite in that case

14:00:52 nubbins`: o o o i see.

14:01:01 nubbins`: sorry, i have a script that changes words of violence to words of kindness

14:01:15 nubbins`: once i checked the log, i understood that you actually "stabbed" me

14:01:49 nubbins`: besides, i didn't quote you without context, i *misquoted* you in the *midst* of context. jeez.

14:02:05 nubbins`: am i literally the ONLY person who understands the rules around here?

14:02:33 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428614 <<< kek

14:02:33 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:55:25; jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired

14:03:30 nubbins`: BRUSHSTRIKE: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. DKSensoryOverload: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Eminent: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Freshman: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. JerseyM54: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted.

14:03:45 nubbins`: thanks, third-party graphic designer who obviously knows what they're doing

14:04:10 danielpbarron: what work did you do for the Ministry of Games?

14:05:04 nubbins`: danielpbarron i did several parcels of work for the ministry of games, in paid official capacity as well as volunteer/unofficial capacity.

14:05:20 danielpbarron: be specific? was it artwork or something?

14:05:51 punkman: is "lower someone into pederasty" a russian thing? the phrase never made much sense to me

14:06:05 nubbins`: we created all of the heraldics for the family lines (yet to be implemented), i also produced the first round of OS X compilation instructions and helped get eulorum set up / own the domain

14:06:28 danielpbarron: ah, so i've yet to see your work

14:06:32 nubbins`: correct

14:06:42 danielpbarron: i thought maybe you designed the item images or something

14:06:50 nubbins`: noooo, nothing so basic

14:06:57 nubbins`: we deal with "real art"

14:07:07 danielpbarron: wasn't implying advanced vs basic

14:07:12 nubbins`: of course not

14:09:02 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2013#301976

14:09:02 assbot: Logged on 11-09-2013 13:46:32; nubbins`: sneak peek of a concept sketch for the Eulora heraldics: http://imgur.com/Rx0KQDZ

14:09:45 thestringpuller: did those ever get used in game?

14:10:08 danielpbarron: not yet

14:10:25 danielpbarron: no death yet, so no marriage

14:10:41 thestringpuller: placing art in that game is a PITA. the planeshift engine (on top of cs) comes with 0 middleware.

14:11:36 nubbins`: relevant log from heraldic delivery: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2013#352304

14:11:36 assbot: Logged on 17-10-2013 13:29:36; nubbins`: heraldry look OK?

14:15:25 nubbins`: thestringpuller sounds like a job for.... whomever

14:15:31 nubbins`: the only developer, i guess

14:16:16 danielpbarron: who is Pascale Horan ?

14:19:02 thestringpuller: Turning Planeshift + Crystalspace into Unity is like turning Bitcoin into Visa, so I don't think it should be a job for anyone.

14:20:01 nubbins`: danielpbarron mai waifu

14:20:21 danielpbarron: oh, in the context from which I found it, she was called 'he'

14:20:52 danielpbarron: or rather, 'his'

14:23:04 nubbins`: danielpbarron from "paschal", of or relating to easter. in various spellings, it's a male or female name

14:23:16 nubbins`: pasquale, pascal, paschal, pascale, etc

14:23:55 nubbins`: fr. aramaic "pasha" / hebrew "pesah"

14:27:47 jurov: thestringpuller what do you mean, turning them into unity?

14:28:06 jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them

14:29:41 jurov: i have not looked to doing art, only to network (de)serialization in order for lisp to be able to send and receive messages

14:31:17 jurov: ended up with horrible hack whereby in the process of deserialization the values are clandestinely pushed into lisp list...

14:32:03 jurov: serialization was not possible this way, fortunately client needs to send only dozen types of messages

14:33:43 jurov: i was thinking about it as potential learning practice for trb... but such things would make alf shit girder beams

14:41:19 thestringpuller: jurov: not that I'm a huge fan of unity, but after playing Kerbal Space Program you have to give it a little credit. What it does have is a large layer of middleware which allows for much better asset management. Whereas in Planeshift + Crystalspace it's all handled in essentially a textfile...

14:47:37 diana_coman: what's wrong with a textfile per se thestringpuller ?

14:49:39 danielpbarron: aha! example of wife and husband sharing same key! one flesh, one key! >> http://fraudsters.com/2013/15th-blown-other-statements/#comment-93968

14:49:41 assbot: 15th blown, other statements. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QJIACU )

15:01:05 diana_coman: re asciilifeform's meaning of pederasty in this context, I use his previous explanation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-02-2016#1416802

15:01:05 assbot: Logged on 27-02-2016 19:14:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other end of pederasty

15:02:46 punkman: diana_coman: ah I missed that somehow

15:03:34 punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?

15:04:48 diana_coman: depends on what you mean by "ideas" (i.e. desires in that direction plenty) and by getting rid of planeshift (code is already quite far - in a good sense - from original planeshift and yes, I absolutely want to take it further away)

15:05:31 punkman: right

15:08:51 thestringpuller: diana_coman: it's a textfile that has no middleware for artist to import assets into the engine. you have to either write it yourself or place the geometry in their yourself. It's 2016 not 1993.

15:09:45 thestringpuller: Take Source for instance. You open up hammer, import your geometry (as a map), press play and Half Life loads with your assets.

15:10:43 punkman: the whole game interface was a pain for me. I'd give it another go when that changes.

15:11:22 diana_coman: uhm, thestringpuller I'll certainly have to study that, so I'll possibly get back to you on this then

15:11:31 diana_coman: punkman, what do you mean exactly?

15:15:09 mircea_popescu: punkman well, maybe wehen jurov releases the slime client :D

15:18:25 nubbins`: thestringpuller / diana_coman it's worth noting that for a game like eulora, which should conceivably have massive amounts of art assets down the road, easier tools for getting those assets in place will drastically increase the volume and quality of em

15:20:44 punkman: diana_coman: i just hated everything about it. moving/finding things in inventory, trying to equip things and and ending up with phantom copies if I didn't click just right. Trying to walk and floating at a 45 degree angle, falling to death off smooth hills. The claim sticks that are "points" in space and keys and... I dunno. I suppose some of that might have changed already.

15:24:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428491 << guy does have it. "bitcoin" as seen by the prb/social media crowd is 99% solutions looking for a problem by weight.

15:24:19 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:05:43; davout: ^guy has it

15:24:32 mircea_popescu: and half of those are built in spaces where provably no problem existsw.

15:25:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428498 << they do, but don't wish to say.

15:25:28 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:07; fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so

15:26:10 mircea_popescu: why do you suppose wanna-be singer/waitress sends demos with britney spears' stuff rather than actual music ? "this is fashionable, maybe some rubs off on me!"

15:29:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 << don't make me guess, supposed to be a strategy discussion!

15:29:01 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~

15:29:24 mircea_popescu: and note that i include (continue with current bitcoin) in the same (intelligence outside the wot) pile. which it is.

15:31:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.

15:31:37 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:48:50; asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.

15:32:05 asciilifeform: pointedly not the same.

15:32:15 asciilifeform: like bones pre- vs post- h-bomb strontium.

15:32:39 mircea_popescu: 1 is, the perfect bitcoin. which, logically, would NOT conserve coinbases. as such, it has no meaningful humantime continuity with the present Bitcoin, and so it can be done at any point etc.

15:32:40 mircea_popescu: 2. is the usable interim continuation of the bitcoin prototype. which, obviously, doesn't HAVE TO exist at all points to 1, but it may help if it does. we're here mostly discussing 2, i think.

15:33:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no proof you can produce for this strontium assertion.

15:33:12 mircea_popescu: note that hearn and gavin were "there" since year 2.

15:33:20 asciilifeform: it is axiomatic.

15:33:41 mircea_popescu: it was axiomatic.

15:33:43 asciilifeform: they were ~there~ but not effectual.

15:34:05 mircea_popescu: yeahwell..

15:34:12 mircea_popescu: the code looks pretty shitty...

15:35:16 mircea_popescu: in any case : while a hierarchy could perhaps be constructed in the "not in wot" pile, as you propose or otherwise,

15:35:21 mircea_popescu: this doesn't put satoshi in your wot, still.

15:35:51 asciilifeform: right

15:36:02 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, your objections as stated don't cut anything.

15:36:14 asciilifeform: but there were reasons why i was willing to operate on his crud.

15:36:35 asciilifeform: which will NEVER apply to gavin & co.

15:36:59 mircea_popescu: most of the crud you operate on was written by gavin & co.

15:37:17 asciilifeform: and i strip it away.

15:37:21 mircea_popescu: right.

15:37:21 asciilifeform: and intend to strip ALL of it.

15:37:31 mircea_popescu: you ever seen what bitcoin 0.2 was like ?

15:37:35 asciilifeform: yes.

15:37:43 mircea_popescu: right.

15:37:56 asciilifeform: but this discussion is NOT only about code.

15:38:04 mircea_popescu: go on

15:38:17 asciilifeform: a usg fork exists to enrich usg. and i will have NO part in it.

15:38:42 asciilifeform: and give NO quarter to satan.

15:39:14 mircea_popescu: looky here, maybe i'm not communicating well.

15:39:52 mircea_popescu: currently, there exists bitcoin. while this is soupier than we'd like and perhaps the collapsed eigenstate is slowly vibrating away into an undecided cloud, nevertheless, for the sake of discussion, let's say.

15:40:37 mircea_popescu: tomorrow, there will be : 1) mit-hardfork, run by gavin and whatever anand prakashen they can find.

15:40:50 mircea_popescu: 2) a vc-hardfork, run by whatever's left of prb

15:41:05 mircea_popescu: 3) a miner-fork, run by whatever that fat dumb fuck can hire on freelancer.com

15:41:16 asciilifeform: and where did trb go ?

15:41:20 asciilifeform: martians stole it ?

15:41:20 mircea_popescu: 4) to perhaps 12 or whatever, hardforks run by various nuts.

15:41:42 mircea_popescu: at this juncture, tmsr must make the decision if it will continue strictly with trb, or ALSO offer a tmsr fork of trb.

15:41:53 mircea_popescu: in any case trb isn't going anywhere, nor need it go anywhere.

15:42:01 asciilifeform: i'm fine with 'also'

15:42:17 mircea_popescu: but you should note, that there is no good reason to consider current trb so much different from cases 1-3.

15:42:29 asciilifeform: but i did say what i WON'T, under any circumstance whatsoever, be part of.

15:42:38 asciilifeform: and it is NOT the same.

15:42:56 mircea_popescu: you gotta be specific. what it, same with what ?

15:43:08 mircea_popescu: eliding the complements makes this discussion dangerous, both to us and to the future.

15:43:49 asciilifeform: l0l i'm getting ~50 baud here

15:44:54 asciilifeform: i will NOT be complicit in a reallocation of chainvalue to the enemy.

15:45:18 mircea_popescu: there is a very specific danger which you perhaps are not seeing. if indeed we continu with trb as is, and if indeed 3) happens, as these two share pow and we don't control .7 or so exahash we become extremelty vulnerable. recall the fate of altcoin ?

15:45:19 asciilifeform: NOR permit his dirty hands to further rape bitcoin src.

15:45:28 asciilifeform: yes.

15:45:46 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, "trb as is only" opens us up to being forced, later on, to pick among the idiots.

15:45:50 mircea_popescu: which is the meaning ofwhat i said.

15:46:12 asciilifeform: but it will mean that bitcoin died, perhaps to be reborn in~our~ planet

15:46:25 mircea_popescu: perhaps or perhaps. looky, strategy discussions are about strategy.

15:46:28 asciilifeform: but i will not spread legs for the nazis.

15:46:39 mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ?

15:46:42 mircea_popescu: chick's hawt.

15:46:47 asciilifeform: would rather eat nagan.

15:47:10 asciilifeform: surrender is not a strategy.

15:47:30 mircea_popescu: lol tell that to stalin!

15:47:51 mircea_popescu: anyway - what isn't a strategy is "if the bad thing happens i'll get really butthurt".

15:48:04 mircea_popescu: strategy gotta be about action not feeling.

15:48:17 asciilifeform: stalin - understood.

15:49:04 asciilifeform: the set of available actions is small, and, i think, well-enumerated at this point.

15:50:06 asciilifeform: if trb gets chainclobbered - it is 2009 again for us.

15:50:41 asciilifeform: but i will not fellate the invader.

15:53:35 mircea_popescu: so you propose to basically wait and see ?

15:53:49 asciilifeform: no.

15:54:23 asciilifeform: i will maintain trb, while 1,001 things incl. writing mine.

15:54:37 asciilifeform: but at my pace it will take 20y.

15:54:54 mircea_popescu: so basically you propose - wait and see on trb, meanwhile i'll also develop a fork variant which i won't either share or have ready in time ?

15:55:01 asciilifeform: archaeologists will, possibly, find it.

15:55:25 asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu expect me to suggest?

15:55:33 mircea_popescu: i do not expect anything, this is why this is a discussion.

15:55:45 mircea_popescu: whatever your position is, it may be, but it gotta be explicit so everyone can build on it.

15:55:47 asciilifeform: so here it is.

15:55:51 mircea_popescu: alright.

15:57:32 asciilifeform: and i will not spread arse for invader, and am not open to persuasion re same, hopefully this needs no further elucidation

15:58:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428545 << i'm not suggesting anything. i'm saying, plainly, that AT LEAST ONCE in the past, you sucked a cock, which is how you are on THIS blockchain. so the argument "i'm no whore" holds no water. you WILL suck others in the future - best make sure they're ours.

15:58:06 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:53:52; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.

15:58:45 asciilifeform: well, old cock was gnat-sized.

15:58:54 asciilifeform: new - t. rex

15:59:30 mircea_popescu: hey. i have no artgument there.

15:59:36 asciilifeform: see the schelling point thread.

15:59:51 mircea_popescu: understand that if there's a summer of crazy, a NEW schelling will emerge.

16:00:13 mircea_popescu: i don't see the future well enough to judge what chances we have, but i do see the future well enough to see that if you have no horse in a race, you can't win it.

16:00:21 asciilifeform: it is like saying 'you conceded in a game of chess when you were 5, why not concede your father's house'

16:01:49 asciilifeform: but yes, i would like to have the horse.

16:01:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428549 << could we for maybe 5 minutes stop with this "panic at everything mp says" i'm starting to feel like a fucking divinity or something.

16:01:50 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:54:35; asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.

16:02:06 asciilifeform: i never panic.

16:02:24 asciilifeform: had that muscle removed (tm)

16:02:35 mircea_popescu: yeah well, it reads like it. anyway.

16:03:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428554 << ahahaha natural lifespam, im bashing this.

16:03:20 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:57:10; *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible

16:05:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428552 << aw dude wtf. link!

16:05:23 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:56:07; asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?

16:07:31 asciilifeform: the 1,2,3,might have to choose thing

16:08:07 mircea_popescu: and you don't see how jumping from that to this is exactly panic ?

16:08:21 asciilifeform: nope?

16:08:38 mircea_popescu: what can i say!

16:08:48 asciilifeform: anyway i did not jump, assumed lsd.

16:09:05 mircea_popescu: things are happening with or without permission, as a general rule. either you're prepared for the possible outcomes, or not.

16:09:43 mircea_popescu: i'd rather we be prepared, if possible, and i pointedly not care how unpleasant a discussion may be to anyone's/everyone's favourite assumptions. so here we are.

16:10:28 asciilifeform: i prepare for many things. but i also use everett's device. so i do not prepare for surrender and cocksucking ignominy.

16:10:49 mircea_popescu: specifically : if miners come up with fork, what are you going to do ? so far all i hear is "blame de gods".

16:10:54 shinohai: Discussion boosts morale.

16:10:57 mircea_popescu: "de gods" are not there for you to blame.

16:11:15 asciilifeform: work for 20 y or until dead to kill them all.

16:11:27 mircea_popescu: too many chuck norris movies or something, srsly now.

16:11:57 asciilifeform: no, that's more or less my whole adult life to date.

16:11:58 mircea_popescu: did the separation discussed in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428706 connect, at all ?

16:11:58 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:31:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.

16:12:12 mircea_popescu: yes, sure, we'll be sooner or later coming out with the perfect bitcoin, or die trying.

16:12:18 mircea_popescu: what of this prototype one!

16:12:49 asciilifeform: it, as i said before, is our shipwreck plank.

16:13:39 mircea_popescu: not in statements of fact, we're not painting a still life here. what do!

16:14:15 asciilifeform: i think i explained what i personally intend to do.

16:14:43 asciilifeform: how ~much~ of it i get to do before dead, i cannot now say.

16:15:53 mircea_popescu: you realise what you're saying is basically, that ~you~ are taking off.

16:16:36 asciilifeform: if the alternative ever consists wholly of surrender- then yes.

16:16:48 mircea_popescu: sigh.

16:17:00 mircea_popescu: wouldja try and engage what's actually on the table rather than what's in the noggin ?

16:17:20 asciilifeform: не шагу назад (tm) (r)

16:17:31 mircea_popescu: jesus shit's hard.

16:18:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428592 << quite.

16:18:09 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:28; asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing

16:18:30 mircea_popescu: in general, when your preteen's sister's friends start taking an interest in your party, you're lame.

16:18:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428590 << i know of no case where "crowdfunding" worked, in any sensible definition.

16:18:58 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:00; asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade

16:19:28 mircea_popescu: yes there are some cases where it has redistributed some dollars. in this sense, the numbers racket as practiced between the same poor black marginals 50 years ago also "worked".

16:20:01 asciilifeform: as i said to the lsd folks, if i were free man, there would be a solid weapon in 1/2y - 1y. BUT this is a flight to alpha centauri, because i am NOT a free man.

16:20:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ideas of a not free man about what freedom'd do to him are null and void.

16:20:59 mircea_popescu: how would you know ?

16:21:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu , who IS free man, can sit down & write mpcoin.

16:21:35 mircea_popescu: if there could be solid weapon in 1/2-1y, you would have long ago been free man. that you aren't makes the proposition rather dubious.

16:21:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well i know what a cage is, and that i live in one.

16:21:56 asciilifeform: am posting from it now.

16:22:01 mircea_popescu: ok, now know the other part of this.

16:22:06 mircea_popescu: it's a whole not a half.

16:22:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1/2 y of FULL time.

16:23:28 mircea_popescu: the discussion is a whole not a half. yes we both understand one half of it. now you understand the other half of it.

16:23:41 asciilifeform: but i don't have enough lsd to do that thread again.

16:23:48 mircea_popescu: mkay.

16:24:31 asciilifeform: but as it stands i have about 1/10th of my strength to give.

16:24:46 shinohai: Here you go asciilifeform - arrange a stupid conference and charge a coupla grand to get a foldup chair in the nearest Best Western. http://www.coindesk.com/events/consensus-2016/register/

16:24:47 assbot: Consensus 2016 - Register Your Ticket Today ... ( http://bit.ly/1U58F1N )

16:24:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428609 << doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag in the ~same sense it didn't hurt to come up with a specific named rotschild, which then didn't count.

16:24:51 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:36:51; punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.

16:25:05 asciilifeform: i gave pricetag!

16:25:15 asciilifeform: but what diff does it make.

16:25:32 mircea_popescu: i do not trust it at all. i'm not sure you understand this, but AT ALL.

16:25:45 asciilifeform: it is accurate.

16:26:15 asciilifeform: price of not having to look for work for a year, hypothetically.

16:26:25 mircea_popescu: it goes, for me, in the same pile as xmas cardano, phuctor two weeks ago, and wahtever the fuck her name was,

16:26:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-08-2015#1244694

16:26:26 assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 00:01:57; asciilifeform: '?lisabeth de Rothschild (n?e de Chambure; a.k.a. Lili; March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family.'

16:26:30 asciilifeform: someone asked for this number? i gave.

16:26:43 mircea_popescu: they are the things you say to protect from change, or w/e.

16:26:49 mircea_popescu: sure, you gave.

16:26:55 mircea_popescu: moving on.

16:28:54 *: asciilifeform does not like to waste bandwidth but generally answers folks when they ask things.

16:28:59 danielpbarron: what is a free man in asciilifeform terms? do I qualify by being someone who only needs to work full time for one season out of the year?

16:29:40 kakobrekla: "needs to" is key here.

16:30:52 mircea_popescu: i can readily see a definition of freedom as "one has enough resources to protect himself from the outside world". this definition is impractical, however, belonging to the sphere chicken world.

16:31:02 mircea_popescu: but hey, as a heuristic, works fine.

16:31:52 mircea_popescu: by this logic, the gardener who is free needs a garden, but the movie director who is free needs his own studio. the cost of their respective freedoms, many degrees of magnitude apart.

16:32:06 asciilifeform: i dun need a studio.

16:32:16 mircea_popescu: i was talking in the general!

16:32:21 asciilifeform: but do need a fair bit of floor space

16:32:26 asciilifeform: and quiet.

16:32:36 asciilifeform: and nonrecycled food

16:32:43 asciilifeform: and my library.

16:32:52 asciilifeform: i think this sums it all.

16:32:52 danielpbarron: what kind of floor space?

16:33:10 kakobrekla: with a roof i imagine

16:33:14 asciilifeform: climate-controlled.

16:33:14 mircea_popescu: lol

16:36:52 PeterL: asciilifeform around here you could fill you list for about 20k usd per year

16:37:07 asciilifeform: no.

16:37:21 PeterL: no?

16:37:45 danielpbarron: and all the lead you could want!

16:37:49 asciilifeform: where PeterL lives? mongolia?

16:37:55 PeterL: michigan

16:38:23 PeterL: only flint has lead in water, the rest of the state has great water

16:38:58 asciilifeform: ick

16:39:03 PeterL: rent a 1600 sqft single family home for about 1000 usd/mo

16:39:16 PeterL: just saying

16:39:22 asciilifeform: and eat roomtemp-stable cheese? fuck that

16:39:32 PeterL: we have cheese here too

16:39:59 asciilifeform: roquefort is not any cheaper in mi than md.

16:41:36 PeterL: how much money do you spend on cheese a month?

16:42:05 asciilifeform: discussion involving 'downshifting' is waste of my time and of everybody else's.

16:42:30 PeterL: I'm not saying downshift, just get out of the land of outrageous rents!

16:42:54 asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo.

16:45:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ick << what, this is an argument now ?

16:45:46 mircea_popescu: uhaul will take half a btc to haul your library.

16:46:02 asciilifeform: but this is not a very interesting discussion. would you have it with, e.g., your lawyer?! ask him what pieces of furniture he could do without, so as to charge less?!!

16:46:21 mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.

16:46:26 PeterL: <asciilifeform> health is still ~1k/mo. << you just added another thing to the list, now we are up to 32k, still nowhere near 500k

16:46:28 mircea_popescu: he is a very good lawyer, and a hardworking fellow too.

16:46:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~.

16:47:01 mircea_popescu: also, health at 1k a month is RIDICULOUS. pretty much all over the world, cancer treatment runs you 1k/mo.

16:47:43 asciilifeform: WORLD

16:47:55 asciilifeform: i'm a subject of hitler.

16:48:19 PeterL: That is about what my in-laws pay, and they are on daily medications and recovering from extensive surgery/cancer treatment

16:48:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's an interesting datapoint, because 100 gallons of gas provide enough energy to haul 100 * 1.2 * 10^8 / 3000 = 4 tons of stuff

16:48:49 mircea_popescu: 3 km VERTICALLY.

16:49:00 mircea_popescu: so you're on the space station now, with your 4ton, ie, 200k volume library ?

16:49:10 danielpbarron: asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~. << gas was twice as expensive then as it is now

16:49:35 asciilifeform: aha but i hauled 4 ton through city traffic. about same joules...

16:50:01 asciilifeform: and yes, it was pre-iran

16:51:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428905 << why not try & persuade him to move to botswana and eat some of his children so he can charge 1k.

16:51:59 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.

16:53:35 mircea_popescu: he is actually in one of those god forsaken places, doesn't matter which.

16:53:38 mircea_popescu: where he lives, that's middle class.

16:54:12 asciilifeform: so clearly mircea_popescu is paying him too much !11

16:54:15 asciilifeform: if middle-class.

16:54:34 mircea_popescu: not the line contemplated here.

16:54:56 asciilifeform: next take your diesel generator and persuade it to run on water.

16:55:05 asciilifeform: or at least see how much water it can eat..

16:55:25 mircea_popescu: looky, lashing at me is not liable to do much. the point remains that this "i could do except alas" line is a total waste of time and utterly broken in so many parts it's not worth fixing.

16:55:31 mircea_popescu: so can we lay it to rest and move on ?

16:56:03 asciilifeform: thread was not answer to mircea_popescu, who i think gets it, but earlier folks.

16:57:53 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu is entirely welcome to answer 'you SAY you could do X if you were free, but i know that you're a tard! so you could not POSSIBLY do X!11 haha' and i will be powerless to prove him wrong.

16:59:04 mircea_popescu: i'm not even saying that, nor is it even needed. even if you ~could~ actually, provavly, known from my personal discussion with the all-knowing god, do it, what the fuck sort of arrangement is this, "so b-a exists so that alf can fix it" ? how is it better than you know, hiring microsoft to do it.

16:59:11 mircea_popescu: if you die one day what then ? etc.

16:59:20 mircea_popescu: so no, broken in too many places to be worth contemplating.

16:59:38 asciilifeform: ok then birth five spare alfs if you need them for all time.

16:59:56 mircea_popescu: this is what we're trying for here : a) birth alfs ; b) continuously.

17:00:00 asciilifeform: or write the motherfucking code yourself, why not

17:00:01 mircea_popescu: ideally they'd all be different

17:00:06 asciilifeform: i'll read and test it , i promise.

17:00:34 danielpbarron: how to start writing ADA on sane gentoo?

17:00:44 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: if you have to ask...

17:00:52 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron iirc he published a gentoo mask few days back

17:00:54 asciilifeform: this is why i say that presently we have 1.

17:01:00 mircea_popescu: course... meanwhile things happened, might not work anymopre.

17:01:04 asciilifeform: and at some point my health will give out and we will have 0.

17:01:11 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu will ahve to write code himself.

17:01:21 danielpbarron: yeah the sane gentoo part i can figure out no problem. just never coded in ADA before

17:01:33 mircea_popescu: there was a manual floating about, lesseee

17:01:34 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i never did either, before we began.

17:01:36 mircea_popescu: !search ada manual

17:01:36 assbot: 6 results for 'ada manual' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manual

17:01:38 danielpbarron: i have the manual even

17:01:42 mircea_popescu: !s ada manul

17:01:43 assbot: 0 results for 'ada manul' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manul

17:01:45 danielpbarron: on dead tree

17:01:47 mircea_popescu: darn.

17:01:52 asciilifeform: Pet The Manul. (tm) (r)

17:01:54 mircea_popescu: ok so then start with the examples i guess ?

17:03:13 asciilifeform: i wish this were not so, but so far afaik the set of folks who understand everything from galois theory to O(..) runtimes to sdram bus timings includes 1) mircea_popescu 2) asciilifeform .

17:03:47 mircea_popescu: the world is not a picture, alf. the world is a moving thing. let people be wouldja!

17:03:54 *: asciilifeform lets.

17:04:12 asciilifeform: and so far we have... what we have.

17:04:30 mircea_popescu: all the things that there are can in principle be understood, or as the old jew said (in fiddler on the roof) - there is a blessing for everything.

17:04:55 asciilifeform: in principle.

17:05:09 asciilifeform: in practice i'm stuck doing pretty much 100% of the ab-initio b-a stuff.

17:05:30 asciilifeform: (YES i appreciate folks testing, cleaning up, etc. ! don't feel sad !)

17:05:36 mircea_popescu: well, either that or screaming at all teh folk who try things.

17:05:43 asciilifeform: and i appreciate mircea_popescu firing death rays at the enemy !

17:06:00 asciilifeform: from his dirigible fleet.

17:06:24 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ? << Brittany Murphy is hot? ~_~

17:06:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i did not scream, we'd prolly be struggling with some 'golang' prb horror now.

17:06:44 asciilifeform: or java.

17:07:10 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://fraudsters.com/2016/black-book/#selection-63.45-63.87

17:07:12 assbot: Black Book on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UilLYd )

17:07:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform orly ?

17:07:34 asciilifeform: i've spend my counterfactual-juice for the day

17:07:38 asciilifeform: *spent

17:07:42 asciilifeform: so nfi.

17:07:50 asciilifeform: gotta go get moar.

17:07:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, why are you so hurt by all this stuff ?

17:08:28 asciilifeform: well, aside from the motherland burning and my being powerless to do anything about it on account of sitting on a sharpened telephone pole, i'm having a marvelous day !11

17:08:51 thestringpuller: ah I was thinking of little black book. was thoroughly confoosed.

17:09:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see that angle :)

17:10:37 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the incredible insanity of naming a girl carice. carici being one of the numerous ways you can say cunt in romanian.

17:10:50 mircea_popescu: so Cunts van Houten!

17:11:02 asciilifeform: hey, englishers call gurlz 'kitty'

17:11:05 asciilifeform: which is not too far off.

17:11:29 mircea_popescu: i guess so

17:12:16 mircea_popescu: anyway, she's great in that film, warmly recommended - not just to watch, but also to get one of your own.

17:14:04 asciilifeform: holy shit

17:14:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428674 < yeah, "turning into unity" or anything alike is not happening. contrary to what alf may think, i'm not about to java-ify things.

17:14:05 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 14:28:06; jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them

17:14:20 asciilifeform: eerom has an an2135sc by cypress

17:14:33 asciilifeform: which... is COMPATIBLE with ezusb !?!?! >>. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428437

17:14:33 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 04:16:24; assbot: Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )

17:14:50 mircea_popescu: nb.

17:14:50 asciilifeform: that i reversed in 2012 ?!

17:16:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428686 << pretty much all engineering since 2014 consisted of washing that crud off.

17:16:02 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:03:34; punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?

17:29:26 *: asciilifeform could easily sanitize the thing, if .... etc.

17:29:44 asciilifeform: hell, rotorize.

17:29:51 asciilifeform: in fact, you don't need me for this any moar, can do yourself.

17:29:56 asciilifeform: i demonstrated how.

17:29:56 mircea_popescu: lol

17:30:06 mircea_popescu: in other news, phuctor server paid for yet another month.

17:30:18 asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu . and my offer to cover it with own blood - stands.

17:31:45 mircea_popescu: yaya. i'm all about to encourage ~that~ sort of insanity.

17:32:01 asciilifeform: (re: earlier, i case anyone thinks that winblowz is 'too hard', i have win8 kernel drivers built with GCC and ~zero microshit code~)

17:32:17 mircea_popescu: static linked ?

17:32:36 asciilifeform: in the sense of not invoking dll loader at any point - YES.

17:32:43 mircea_popescu: nb.

17:33:52 asciilifeform: fwiw.

17:34:02 asciilifeform: ditto userland.

17:45:57 mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3i8a1coqd1r7us0jo1_1280.jpg

17:45:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5f6Su )

17:49:04 asciilifeform: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << mega-commentz lulz.

17:49:05 assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )

17:51:04 *: asciilifeform would be quite stimulated to learn who was responsible for the ~30 btc flurry of 'yes' bets in the 12 hrs or so before the game

17:51:16 mircea_popescu: "No kidding. What a scam this site is. I suppose they're planning on people not really reading the FAQ. I mean it calculates the odds for you and says 1 pays 1 but that's a LIE."

17:51:20 mircea_popescu: what the fuck are these idiots on about ?!

17:51:41 mircea_popescu: "The fee should also probably be taken out of profit only, not the total bet."

17:51:43 mircea_popescu: herp.

17:51:57 asciilifeform: covered in shit from walking through heathen world, and they never wash, so still smell it

17:51:58 mircea_popescu: how about the fee gets taken out of mps fortune, and losers are refunded for good measure.

17:52:03 mircea_popescu: motherfucker....

17:53:19 asciilifeform: much as i would like to prove some variety of shenanigans re: this bet, i cannot.

17:55:22 mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5794 << this ia actually a pretty intelligent comment

17:55:23 assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5fPD4 )

17:56:10 asciilifeform: aha, linked strictly for it

17:56:18 mircea_popescu: anyway, thanks god for kakobrekla's idea of implementing that calculator on site, otherwise with bets like these that draw loads of noobs (i don't mean to bitrcoin, or to betting, i mean to thinking) we'd have had degrees of magnitude more idiotic spew.

17:58:52 asciilifeform: but at any rate i would not be surprised if one day i learn that lee sedol was told by a little bird that if he wins he will have an accident like go seigen in '61

17:59:17 mircea_popescu: money is a better play.

17:59:24 asciilifeform: (well, no, i will be surprised ~if i learn~, but not ~that it happened~)

17:59:25 mircea_popescu: "win, either way, 1mn or 10, your call"

17:59:32 asciilifeform: or that.

17:59:59 asciilifeform: thing is, money is not much of a motivator to pro go players

18:00:11 asciilifeform: they want ~to play~

18:01:39 mircea_popescu: or maybe have other theorems to prove.

18:01:42 asciilifeform: (and to exist in the conditions where playing is a thing, for which the money is. but the money is strictly secondary.)

18:01:57 asciilifeform: very few pro go folks have other theorems, they start at 5 y.o.

18:02:02 asciilifeform: think ballet.

18:02:08 mircea_popescu: this is not much of a criteria.

18:02:32 *: mircea_popescu spent years hunting @ballet school. they do have other theorems.

18:02:57 asciilifeform: they'd better, given that they burn out at, what, 19

18:06:19 mircea_popescu: anyway. konspiraci isn't, on reflection and review, much of a persuasive explanation here.

18:06:31 mircea_popescu: computer plays like a shoe - true, but not just any shoe.

18:06:45 mircea_popescu: the same thing exists in bridge, the stickler old lady.

18:07:22 asciilifeform: bulldozer, in the end, always wins

18:07:27 mircea_popescu: usually makes a 3rd to 5th in singles tourneys or else somewhere 4-10th in teams. because her quarter tricks on minor points still buy a lot.

18:07:41 asciilifeform: it will still be a few yrs. before it becomes impossible to play on the net.

18:08:14 asciilifeform: or so thinks my brother, who for ~20yrs has cared for very little other than go.

18:08:54 asciilifeform: ( he went, so to speak, perelman, some time ago. )

18:09:23 mircea_popescu: tsk.

18:09:27 mircea_popescu: sorry for his loss.\

18:09:47 asciilifeform: eh he knew it would not live forever.

18:09:50 asciilifeform: is not a fool.

18:10:07 mircea_popescu: hey, is this the fellow that used to game program ?

18:10:12 asciilifeform: aha

18:10:16 asciilifeform: i only got 1 brother.

18:10:27 mircea_popescu: well if he wqants to go perelman all over eulora... something could perhaps be arranged.

18:10:33 asciilifeform: ~ mircea_popescu's age.

18:10:54 asciilifeform: l0l mircea_popescu thinks he could afford my brother , ahaha.

18:11:12 mircea_popescu: oh, perelman takes money now ? darn, i should headhunt the original

18:11:24 asciilifeform: perhaps !

18:11:34 asciilifeform: maybe p even takes payment in the tree bark he eats

18:12:03 asciilifeform: perhaps he'll cough up a cipher for us.

18:12:10 asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)

18:12:18 PeterL: did mircea_popescu mean program eulora or play eulora?

18:12:35 asciilifeform: PeterL: prolly program ? i don't recall folks having to be paid to ~play~ it?

18:13:38 PeterL: well, S.MG is sitting on how many thousands of btc? surely that would entice anybody if spent

18:14:19 asciilifeform: PeterL: i dun think mircea_popescu believes in spending

18:14:24 asciilifeform: can't blame'im either

18:14:28 asciilifeform: spending suxxx.

18:15:59 asciilifeform: those thousands will buy some very spiffy tshirts when btc goes to penny.

18:16:43 asciilifeform: (though spending will still suck donkey balls then)

18:24:34 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428607 << Been raining. Have tree down to straight 5'3" section in ground suitable for art

18:24:34 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:30:05; shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.

18:24:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was 'old-school' '90s games man, hand-optimized asm for consoles, 3d engines from scratch, that kinda thing.

18:24:54 asciilifeform: now works on dour industrial control crud.

18:24:59 asciilifeform: but at least doesn't ever have to leave house.

18:27:37 asciilifeform: (the games industry mostly left this part of the world.)

18:33:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i will have you know that yours is a very thin tree.

18:33:14 asciilifeform: tepes would never sit a man down on such a stake.

18:33:19 asciilifeform: it'd be over in minutes.

18:34:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, very thin weedy thing. But it's height had become a concern given it's proximity to the power line.

18:34:22 asciilifeform: (typically, tree was chosen to be ~telephone pole wide. so that victim would have to wait 2-3 days for the bones to spread, or to die of thirst)

18:35:38 asciilifeform: the stake was in ru penal code through the 18th c. so we happen to know a good bit of craft concerning how & what.

18:36:18 asciilifeform: for instance, you don't want splinters on the pole, the condemned bleeds faster.

18:37:28 asciilifeform: the last instance i recall of a formal sentence of impalement was, iirc, in 1740s, and it was commuted at the last minute to beheading

18:37:36 asciilifeform: but historians in the audience are welcome to correct me.

18:37:59 shinohai: How merciful.

18:38:06 BingoBoingo: Aha! I have three trees several times too big then and none the right size. I like the big ones though. Will have to look up primary sources.

18:40:21 asciilifeform: there is an excellent scene of 16 c. horse-drawn impalement in the pl film 'Ogniem i mieczem' ('with fire and sword').

18:41:17 asciilifeform: four-parter, took, iirc, ~40 years to make !

18:41:22 asciilifeform: longer than 'star wars.'

18:41:32 asciilifeform: mega-film.

18:51:31 BingoBoingo: there is also locust tree I am not candidate because it likely no longer has a solid core and will likely require its removal to be outsourced.

19:07:18 jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes i have got bitcoin-foundation.info domain, should i toss it too?

19:20:32 funkenstein_: <trinque> hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it <-- thanks trinque :) trouble is I'm not sure what base to regrind from

19:22:37 funkenstein_: this seems an unsolved problem in how to use V and/or my broken understanding of how to use V

19:26:07 danielpbarron: http://thesixthirty.com/news/chicago-cell-phone-jammer/ >> Although, if I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, how much fun would it be just to ride the L for hours on end with a case of Old Style and a cell phone jammer solely for the purpose of messing with people?

19:26:09 assbot: Wanted: The Chicago Cell Phone Jammer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RC8LrJ )

19:26:45 asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !

19:26:52 danielpbarron: ^^ is now caught, 10k USD bail

19:27:53 danielpbarron: isn't that another "if you have to ask" sorta things?

19:28:22 asciilifeform: re: jammer: idiocy

19:28:54 trinque: publish list of mega-b00ks, or go raid whichever university is still teaching math/eng re: alfs

19:29:11 asciilifeform: if yer gonna jam, have 100 of'em, with solar panels, dropped by quadcopter on rooftops.

19:29:22 asciilifeform: take out gsm citywide for a month.

19:29:35 asciilifeform: this is kindergarten-basic.

19:30:01 asciilifeform: trinque: go, raid.

19:30:30 trinque: I was hoping for the reading list!

19:30:56 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/ascii_book_list.txt

19:30:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/223ti3i )

19:31:35 asciilifeform: this is mebbe half a shelf.

19:31:42 trinque: here's the thing

19:32:04 trinque: I've heard plenty of reasonable criticism of autodidactism

19:32:14 asciilifeform: i hate to disappoint folks, but i'm .. not made of book

19:32:16 trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own

19:32:46 asciilifeform: armies is what the other side has.

19:32:53 trinque: for this very reason

19:33:10 asciilifeform: all i can offer is this other kind of force.

19:33:19 asciilifeform: while i have some to give.

19:33:44 asciilifeform: call it what you like.

19:35:15 mod6: jurov: why would you toss it?

19:35:50 jurov: i forgot i registerd it and now it is expiring, asking if you want to add it

19:37:06 asciilifeform: i actually understand very well why mircea_popescu does not want any of this to EVER become about armies of trainable fungible folks.

19:37:27 mod6: jurov: are you using it for anything at all?

19:37:39 jurov: also, just for lulz, got targeted spam - invite to bid on foundationcoin.com

19:37:57 mod6: heh

19:38:02 asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf

19:38:11 jurov: mod6 no, there was promo for .info. so i regged it and forgot

19:38:23 asciilifeform: l0l autogenned spamola

19:38:58 mod6: ah. i think you can let it go. we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' for at least the next 4 years iirc. (good until 2020), and im not sure about therealbitcoin.com -- i didn't register that one.

19:40:08 jurov: ok

19:40:18 mod6: i guess therealbitcoin.com expires on 22-10-2016

19:40:24 mod6: so whomever may want to renew that one.

19:40:35 jurov: it's me too, i'll keep it for ml

19:40:43 mod6: sweet thank jurov

19:40:54 trinque: asciilifeform: what does asking for a list of books have to do with fungible cogs

19:41:06 trinque: I can see very well that you're not engaging me on the turf I proposed

19:41:08 trinque: :p

19:41:52 trinque: *they* made this world, and what is the proposal for the other? I suppose engineers and mathematicians will burst from the womb having spent 9 months proving theorems

19:43:37 asciilifeform: trinque: i think i lost the head of the thread?

19:43:41 asciilifeform: list of books for ~what~ ?

19:47:13 trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.

19:47:46 asciilifeform: the OLD world.

19:48:15 asciilifeform: i fully expect that it will take 100+ yrs of AGGRESSIVE sanity to create the peoplecaliber of 1980 again.

19:48:19 asciilifeform: and 1000 years - 1880.

19:50:53 trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?

19:50:57 trinque: *essence

19:51:57 asciilifeform: do you recall the thread re: how people born in '90s cannot think worth half a damn ?

19:52:06 asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??

19:52:19 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 <-- one thing i've learned reading here is that this attitude leads to thermodynamic death / intellectual wasteland more quickly than i had expected

19:52:19 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~

19:52:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has several useful articles re: how various unrealities will have to collapse in order for real people to be built again

19:53:12 asciilifeform: but it is not clear to me that those who pick up the pieces will choose to do anything resembling civilization.

19:53:23 asciilifeform: and i could not necessarily persuade them that it is a good idea.

19:53:31 asciilifeform: even if i could speak to them.

19:55:57 funkenstein_: asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo. <-- I LOLed

20:00:05 *: trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand

20:00:17 asciilifeform: who said 'wait' ?

20:00:18 asciilifeform: go, do !

20:00:22 trinque: I suppose spartans just sorta emerged

20:00:34 asciilifeform: conquer !

20:00:36 trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans

20:00:58 asciilifeform: fix shiva so lispimage persists !

20:01:05 asciilifeform: or are you stuck in womb.

20:02:34 trinque: I have trb dev time today. it does not address the point made about education and its function in a culture

20:04:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has the canonical advice, i cannot beat it, have 1000 children, beat'em within a mm of their life, kill the dumbest 9/10th

20:04:16 asciilifeform: what else to say.

20:04:23 trinque: oh I don't know, learning math?

20:04:27 trinque: wtf is this

20:05:03 asciilifeform: teach the survivers, maths.

20:05:20 asciilifeform: hell, they will learn it by themselves

20:05:22 trinque: there are more books on mathematics than could ever possibly be read by one person in one lifetime

20:05:23 asciilifeform: by counting yer bonez

20:05:42 asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.

20:05:49 trinque: no shit huh?

20:05:51 trinque: l0l

20:05:53 asciilifeform: aha.

20:06:08 asciilifeform: this is sad but true.

20:06:15 trinque: this is exactly, entirely my point

20:06:21 trinque: make the room!!!!111!!11!1

20:06:31 funkenstein_: ^

20:06:32 asciilifeform: i have about 1/2 of it.

20:08:17 asciilifeform: oh there is a trick

20:08:28 asciilifeform: one of the items in the room is an hdd with half a TB of ru text.

20:09:20 trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable

20:09:29 trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls

20:09:52 asciilifeform: what's the failure rate for making mircea_popescus ?

20:10:03 asciilifeform: and i'm not even a mircea_popescu !

20:10:31 asciilifeform: there's at least two full platoons of asciilifeforms for every mircea_popescu .

20:16:20 nubbins`: good thing

20:16:27 funkenstein_: how is blustering idiocy canonical?

20:17:29 nubbins`: by fiat decree

20:17:59 funkenstein_: aha

20:18:09 funkenstein_: i guess if it is repeated enough, it is indeed in the canon

20:18:17 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i dunno about your planet, but on mine it is state of the art.

20:18:47 asciilifeform: nubbins` !

20:18:51 asciilifeform: did that tx confirm yet ?!

20:18:56 nubbins`: yes sir

20:19:03 nubbins`: prepping the crate for airdrop today

20:19:06 asciilifeform: yay!

20:20:02 asciilifeform: only took 3 days for somebody to malleat it, huh.

20:21:31 nubbins`: block 401820 for your records! i'd only re-checked this morning

20:22:51 asciilifeform: it was still in limbo when i woke up.

20:23:20 asciilifeform: i even was starting to think that i'd have to write my own malleatron.

20:24:18 asciilifeform: ftr i still see the high-S thing as a deplorable compromise

20:24:25 asciilifeform: it set a precedent for miner censorship.

20:24:40 asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.

20:24:43 asciilifeform: that are VALID BITCOIN.

20:25:03 PeterL: counts as a soft fork?

20:25:16 asciilifeform: it emboldened the fuckers for... what we see now.

20:28:23 funkenstein_: what's that?

20:28:36 asciilifeform: !s a miner problem

20:28:37 assbot: 21 results for 'a miner problem' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+miner+problem

20:28:38 funkenstein_: can you exclude me from your dinner even though I have a valid mouth?

20:29:03 funkenstein_: not that again lol

20:29:10 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: if miners can pick and choose who gets to use bitcoin, like you pick dinner guests, bitcoin is broken.

20:29:36 funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always

20:30:01 asciilifeform: ants are welcome to choose which crumb on the floor to eat. BUT it had better be INCONSPICUOUS and they had BETTER stay out of the refrigerator.

20:30:18 funkenstein_: unless they pay the fee ;)

20:30:55 asciilifeform: the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant.

20:31:38 funkenstein_: heh :) well having to pay miners for their service hardly implies something broken to me

20:32:07 asciilifeform: pay, pay.

20:32:13 asciilifeform: i have nfi btw why mircea_popescu sent a 0fee.

20:32:18 asciilifeform: srsly i have nfi, ask him.

20:32:36 funkenstein_: whole thing is none of my business

20:32:37 asciilifeform: maybe he hit the button with his elbow, what.

20:32:43 asciilifeform: none of MY either.

20:32:50 asciilifeform: but for some reason folks keep asking about it.

20:33:02 asciilifeform: and i will say, for last time hopefully, i have nfi !11

20:33:35 funkenstein_: lol anyway asciilifeform, got any comments about how you see patch order established for V users?

20:34:23 asciilifeform: maybe he did it SO FOLKS WOULD ASK!111

20:36:06 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i suggested 'longest chain with sigs S1, S2, ... Sn' earlier.

20:36:16 PeterL: <asciilifeform> the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant. << I dun get it, how does miners not including your txn equate to raiding the kitchen?

20:36:29 asciilifeform: because the ants are not the purpose of the kitchen.

20:36:34 asciilifeform: they are parasites.

20:36:49 asciilifeform: and it anyone knew how to build an antproof kitchen, he ~would~.

20:38:03 funkenstein_: asciilifeform, so if I would like to make/rebase a patch.. i should take the longest chain I have seen as the base of the diff?

20:38:36 asciilifeform: (maybe ants are not the best example, but ~the mold on the cheese~ is. mold is necessary and useful in the RIGHT PLACES)

20:38:49 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: longest chain SIGNED BY FOLKS YOU APPROVE OF

20:39:46 PeterL: so if your patch is not included, you have to keep rebasing it every time a new patch is added until it does get included?

20:39:58 asciilifeform: unfortunately yes.

20:40:03 funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order

20:40:31 asciilifeform: we had a brutal but iirc conclusive thread about this

20:40:50 funkenstein_: also if people don't like a patch SN which you have in the base, they will not get to use your patch

20:42:58 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411334 << thread.

20:42:58 assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:42:04; mircea_popescu: you don't "release" a patch.

20:43:34 asciilifeform: where mircea_popescu argues that there being ~any such thing~ as a shared-by-all checkpoint is a Bad Thing

20:43:39 asciilifeform: and leads to prb.

20:45:15 funkenstein_: this implies there is also no "included"

20:45:28 asciilifeform: yes.

20:45:34 asciilifeform: theer is only 'included by YOU'

20:45:40 asciilifeform: in YOUR tree

20:45:46 asciilifeform: which others can CHOOSE to pollinate from.

20:45:58 asciilifeform: this is key.

20:46:00 funkenstein_: aha

20:46:17 funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree

20:46:31 asciilifeform: it took me a week of ??? and radiating high-energy frustratrons at mircea_popescu to fully grasp this point.

20:47:28 asciilifeform: also 'regrind' is familiar in the heathen world under the name 'merge'

20:47:35 asciilifeform: we have NO auto-merge for a REASON.

20:47:35 PeterL: funkenstein_ or do you just have to ask which keys are in his wot, and you can generate a tree from there?

20:47:49 trinque: funkenstein_: it makes more sense for you to make your own decisions about which patches you like, and if I don't like it I'm free to alter your patch to suit me

20:47:50 asciilifeform: ideally you would never have to transmit whole tree, right

20:47:58 asciilifeform: trinque has it.

20:48:37 funkenstein_: ok thanks for walking me through it

20:53:02 thestringpuller: PeterL: being a chemist what was the formative era when alchemy became chemistry?

20:55:30 funkenstein_: R. Boyle's name comes up often in this context

20:56:12 asciilifeform: http://www.wptz.com/politics/first-on-cnn-us-plans-to-publicly-blame-iran-for-dam-cyber-breach/38444226 << in other lulz.

20:56:14 assbot: First on CNN: U.S. plans to publicly blame Iran for dam cyber breach | Politics - WPTZ Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uj1jqm )

20:56:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?

20:56:47 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Was looking at that actually, may make the cut.

20:56:51 *: asciilifeform bbl

20:58:16 funkenstein_: thestringpuller, imho as long as grant-writers pull the wool over the eyes of the grantors, alchemy continues

21:00:55 shinohai: Funny I was looking at that same article before gf came over.

21:01:33 thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry

21:02:25 thestringpuller: I agree we should stop playing fast and loose with the scientific method tho...

21:03:54 funkenstein_: well if you can get a grant from the king to do real chemistry by suggesting there might be immortality in it, why not?

21:06:12 thestringpuller: i don't think there are any grants for turning led into gold

21:06:26 thestringpuller: and we're well aware the atomic difference in the two...

21:07:24 funkenstein_: aha but micro-black holes, big bang cosmology, "the singularity", etc.

21:07:55 thestringpuller: "there will always be mysticism, just in another form"

21:08:03 funkenstein_: there you go :)

21:08:10 thestringpuller: but that's just congealing knowledge from alchemy to chemistry :P

21:08:47 thestringpuller: i'm more specifically pointing out formative moments like in 2001 when the monkeys encounter the monolith

21:09:49 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: my billz are 100% paid by 'alchemy'.

21:09:59 asciilifeform: like, e.g., kepler's.

21:10:09 asciilifeform: (well, he had astrology, same diff.)

21:10:41 thestringpuller: what is computer alchemy?

21:10:48 thestringpuller: trying to discover how to break sha-2?

21:11:05 funkenstein_: windows security?

21:11:33 asciilifeform: more prosaic

21:11:41 shinohai: I wasn't aware you could use "Windows" and "Security" in same expression?

21:11:43 asciilifeform: modern alchemists are 'clever' and try to claim small things.

21:12:05 asciilifeform: not gold, copper.

21:12:12 thestringpuller: I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years.

21:12:14 asciilifeform: not immortality - live extra day.

21:12:19 asciilifeform: etc.

21:12:24 asciilifeform: same rubbish, but 'modest'.

21:12:30 thestringpuller: I dunno how all these people get malware in windows.

21:13:04 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: typically browser 'driveby'.

21:13:12 asciilifeform: secondarily - via warez.

21:13:50 thestringpuller: I guess using my machine for single purpose- Netflix and Steam, has limited risk.

21:14:04 thestringpuller: would never use windows machine for exploring the jungle

21:14:10 funkenstein_: http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-believe-i-shall-destroy-the-stock-market-again-16327

21:14:12 assbot: I Believe I Shall Destroy The Stock Market Again - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xg36LW )

21:14:19 thestringpuller: you'll come home with ticks leeches and tapeworms

21:14:52 asciilifeform: i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade.

21:15:31 thestringpuller: impressive

21:19:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429067 << nope.

21:19:03 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 18:12:10; asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)

21:23:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429103 << well, that's why people are saving, learning romanian, reading up on old theory of law and commercial practice arcana and so on, neh ?

21:23:58 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:26:45; asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !

21:24:14 mircea_popescu: jic.

21:25:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai".

21:25:25 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own

21:25:28 mircea_popescu: !s momotaro

21:25:29 assbot: 1 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro

21:29:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429131 << more complicated than that (for instance - i engage enemy on his strong turf all the time, i just don't engage it on its ~chosen~ turf except for final battle), but in principle sure.

21:29:03 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:38:02; asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf

21:30:24 asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.

21:30:29 asciilifeform: (per momotaro.)

21:30:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429146 << this is not necessarily unworkable - for a long time humans kept domesticated animals but didn't breed them in captivity - merely captured more. yet otherwise, sure.

21:30:42 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:47:13; trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.

21:30:49 PeterL: thestringpuller I am not really strong on history, I would say 1800s, peer reviewed journals became a thing

21:31:15 mircea_popescu: PeterL "peer reviewed journals" became a thing in 1950s, together with state-funded science.

21:31:18 asciilifeform: and monasteries certainly did not ~breed~ thinkers

21:31:29 mircea_popescu: they were trying to emulate the previous functioning of actual science, which was very much b-a.

21:31:45 asciilifeform: aha, royal society, etc.

21:32:12 asciilifeform: everyone knows the story of harrison, the watchmaker ?

21:32:22 BingoBoingo: aha

21:32:23 asciilifeform: the one who eventually - in his 80s - awarded longitude prize

21:32:36 asciilifeform: was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.

21:32:39 mircea_popescu: !s story of harrison, the watchmaker

21:32:40 assbot: 0 results for 'story of harrison, the watchmaker' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=story+of+harrison%2C+the+watchmaker

21:32:40 asciilifeform: it cuts both ways.

21:32:48 mircea_popescu: log can take one of everything.

21:33:00 asciilifeform: !s longitude

21:33:00 assbot: 7 results for 'longitude' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=longitude

21:33:31 asciilifeform: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/08/article-2034658-0DC6E85C00000578-158_634x628.jpg

21:33:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6iMq )

21:33:38 PeterL: <thestringpuller> I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years << I havn't had to reinstall the OS on my mac in 9 years, it mostly sorta still works

21:33:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429150 << not giving a shit, for instance, in incredible short supply.

21:33:44 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:50:53; trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?

21:33:46 asciilifeform: ^ his prototype

21:33:47 asciilifeform: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Harrison's_Chronometer_H5.JPG

21:33:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6jQq )

21:33:50 asciilifeform: ^ his final one.

21:34:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429153 << amusingly enough, it's historically how it works.

21:34:55 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:52:06; asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??

21:35:00 PeterL: <asciilifeform> i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade. << my previous job we had a windows 98 box dedicated to a piece of equipment

21:35:19 asciilifeform: PeterL: was it a mass spec ?

21:35:27 mircea_popescu: lol! how did you know.

21:35:28 PeterL: no, NIR

21:35:31 asciilifeform: ah!

21:35:35 mircea_popescu: oh.

21:35:37 asciilifeform: we had both, and yes win98

21:36:08 PeterL: If it still works, why upgrade?

21:36:32 asciilifeform: mass spec is the worst, came with isa card

21:36:36 asciilifeform: no upgrade, ever.

21:37:27 asciilifeform: incidentally, ~no lab ever hires a reverser to build a new interface.

21:37:32 asciilifeform: because how do you budget for that.

21:37:45 asciilifeform: $MAXINT for rusty iron, but not a penny for hiring folks

21:37:58 PeterL: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage

21:37:58 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own

21:38:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429161 << this is actually a very juvenal-ish image. yet i don't recall it as a thing.

21:38:01 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:05; *: trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand

21:38:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> because how do you budget for that. << i have no idea wqhat the because would be, other than idiots. if i ran the lab i would, simply on grounds of independence.

21:38:55 mircea_popescu: and of course i'd prolly have a wailing chorus of stakeholder idiots, whom i'd tell the usual get fucked.

21:39:15 mircea_popescu: PeterL i only do what with women of a certain age.

21:40:24 deedbot-: [Qntra] US May Accuse Iran Of Office Computer Infection - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-may-accuse-iran-of-office-computer-infection/

21:41:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429166 << the spartans "emerged" out of a well understood, well documented process modern man prefers to think never existed. specifically : the woman's job to push them out ; the man's job to decide which may live. and runts - off to the apothetae.

21:41:02 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:36; trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans

21:41:32 PeterL: asciilifeform my current lab goes the direction of paying for "service contract" with equipment manufacturers to keep our software up-to-date

21:41:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i only ever worked in godforsaken usg labs.

21:42:09 mircea_popescu: PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ?

21:42:17 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429366 << Actually leads to pederasty. Anyways the Jedi thing was invented by the George Lucas hamplanet.

21:42:17 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 21:37:58; PeterL: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage

21:42:45 mircea_popescu: let me guess, "nobody could have foreseen - no one got fired for following the herd".

21:43:10 asciilifeform: and anyway there's ~6 people you can hire to do the isa card.

21:43:13 PeterL: the equipment does what we want it to, what more do we need?

21:43:15 asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is one... )

21:43:41 mircea_popescu: PeterL i tohuhgt you were scientists ? "this experiment came out right - what more ?"

21:43:52 mircea_popescu: uh i dunno...

21:43:57 mircea_popescu: !s negative vs positive functioning

21:43:58 assbot: 0 results for 'negative vs positive functioning' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=negative+vs+positive+functioning

21:44:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1425915 < that.

21:44:17 assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:26:24; assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.

21:45:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429178 << he's asking you for the index list of that room ; you're not providing it because ?

21:45:24 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:05:42; asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.

21:46:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429189 << cunt runs on perl, it is what it is, it does what it does. 90% failue rate may well be very self-flattering if the criteria discussed are contemplated seriously.

21:46:20 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:20; trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable

21:46:58 mircea_popescu: 10% failure rate is based on the concept that a)most will be artisans, ie, gardeners and b) periodic war and disease anyway.

21:48:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429190 << this is sadly not much more than a restatement of the independent vertical credo, "where do i get just the facts". bear in mind that this vertical is a creation of the usg agitprop machine and nothing more.

21:48:33 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:29; trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls

21:49:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the books are the EASY PART

21:49:55 asciilifeform: and i listed many of them here.

21:49:59 asciilifeform: over past years.

21:50:11 asciilifeform: go and make a set of ~eyes~ for the books to be read by.

21:50:22 mircea_popescu: being an us style "independent" has about as much to do with independence as being a us style "liberal" has to do with liberalism ; or as much as the 6th grader's idea of "a lothario" has to do with fucking, partying and generally the dyonyssian world.

21:50:25 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/queers/#selection-55.0-55.24 < reference there.

21:50:26 assbot: Queers on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj7Ype )

21:50:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "many of them" != "here's list"

21:51:57 PeterL: <mircea_popescu> PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ? << If the equipment does not work the way it is supposed to, we speak to our contact and he fixes it, I don't see any abdication of job by manager here?

21:52:17 mircea_popescu: really ?

21:52:22 asciilifeform: my list is not complete until i'm dead...

21:52:25 asciilifeform: take naggum's list.

21:52:28 asciilifeform: it is in the logz even.

21:52:28 mircea_popescu: suppose you get married, and if you or wife need anty money, you go ask your dad.

21:52:39 mircea_popescu: this doesn't abdicate your role, and she would be wise to mary you in this arrangement, yes ?

21:54:13 PeterL: well, the company can pay me to figure out how to program it or pay the guy who built it to program it, it is just cheaper/faster for them to do it

21:54:30 mircea_popescu: (note that this is quite how it worked, for poor people in rural, feudal settings. recommended reading : http://fraudsters.com/2012/la-terra-trema/ )

21:54:31 assbot: La Terra Trema on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8pjm )

21:54:50 mircea_popescu: PeterL and it'd be cheaper/faster (== easier) for your dad to pay.

21:55:20 mircea_popescu: a discussion of whether x is an abdication or not can not be decided on the basis of "is it cheaper or faster". because of fucking course it would be, that's what abdication means.

21:55:22 mircea_popescu: you give up.

21:55:39 PeterL: do you fix your pipes yourself or do you hire a plumber?

21:56:11 PeterL: is hiring a plumber an abdication of duty?

21:56:16 mircea_popescu: and let's relate here the immorality of capital, as per http://fraudsters.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/#footnote_7_65336

21:56:17 assbot: Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8ALv )

21:56:28 mircea_popescu: PeterL i only hire plumbers because i know how to fix my pipes.

21:56:36 mircea_popescu: i would not hire, eg, "apple laptop fixer".

21:57:09 mircea_popescu: and i have not to date hired anyone to do anything whatsoever i don't know how to do myself. how would i pay them ?

21:57:29 mircea_popescu: (and yes that means i can read my own fucking x rays, and say to the doctor what he says back to me.)

21:58:11 PeterL: and you program your own OS from scratch?

21:58:23 mircea_popescu: no, which is why i don't hire osen.

21:58:30 mircea_popescu: i... don't know how to pay.

21:58:41 PeterL: but you use an OS written by somebody

21:58:50 mircea_popescu: so i do.

21:59:09 PeterL: so wtf is even your point?

21:59:19 mircea_popescu: you think that was a counterargument somehow ?!

21:59:41 mircea_popescu: i also use women i didn't make myself...

21:59:44 PeterL: I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here?

22:00:05 mircea_popescu: well, i dun know how it'd be otherwise said, so i guess we let it lay ?

22:01:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429211 << it is very difficult to get around this in bitcoin as-is.

22:01:09 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:24:40; asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.

22:01:37 asciilifeform: quite impossible, actually, afaik.

22:01:51 PeterL: other than running your own mining pool

22:01:58 asciilifeform: PeterL: they can collude to kill you

22:02:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429221 << the "all data used to eval a tx is found in that tx" point is paramount and controlling here as there. no, they don't "pick and choose".

22:02:06 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:29:36; funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always

22:02:15 PeterL: with >50% if nobody else likes you

22:02:31 mircea_popescu: PeterL yes, i'm aware that if we felt like it, we could just buy visa hurr durr.

22:02:37 mircea_popescu: what's any of that to do with bitcoin.

22:02:52 asciilifeform: ^

22:03:00 PeterL: as mircea_popescu always says, "don't be poor"

22:03:04 asciilifeform: there must not BE a 'blackhole tx' button.

22:03:05 asciilifeform: anywhere.

22:03:11 mircea_popescu: that doesn't relate here.

22:04:36 mircea_popescu: "how to fly!" "don't be poor" < works. "how to cold fusion" "Don't be poor" < fails. what'd money do ?

22:06:21 mircea_popescu: incidentally, maybe i have a better approach re the other thread. do you suppose PeterL that if you had to take a job with one of two labs, absolutely the same offer in every respect, you'd take the job with the lab that rents space in random buildings or with the lab that owns its own building ?

22:06:52 PeterL: I guess I would say the one that owns a building

22:07:12 mircea_popescu: by the same measure, i'd prefer the lab that owns its machinery rather than borrow it from unknown people in unspecifiable conditions.

22:07:25 mircea_popescu: just moreso, because machinery > real estate ever since the industrial revolution.

22:07:58 PeterL: Okay .... I don't know where you got the idea any equipment borrowing is going on here?

22:08:04 mircea_popescu: hahaha. what ?

22:08:50 mircea_popescu: a girl i own, i can order to plug into whatever cock i choose. a girl you borrow from her parents - only with prior written permission from owner.

22:09:30 mircea_popescu: which i suppose is as good an explanation as any as to why i don't marry : i own my equipment.

22:09:47 PeterL: we get the equipment, we have the manufacturers give us software to run it, then we get to do whatever we want with it

22:09:58 mircea_popescu: except not use win98 station ?

22:10:36 asciilifeform: btw i once spent year+ reversing (successfully) an instrument.

22:10:40 asciilifeform: de-winblowzated it.

22:10:45 asciilifeform: story is in the logz.

22:10:46 asciilifeform: !s tecan

22:10:46 assbot: 10 results for 'tecan' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tecan

22:10:55 PeterL: ah, if we want to run on win98 station we would have to make driver ourself, but why would we want that?

22:11:01 asciilifeform: but i was not ~hired to do this~, but for something else, i did it as an extra thing

22:11:18 mircea_popescu: PeterL i thought you did run it on windows.

22:11:24 mircea_popescu: could you have run it on an actual os ?

22:11:29 asciilifeform: and, INTERESTINGLY, i owned the copyright, and then spun off the thing as product, and NO ONE BOUGHT

22:11:44 PeterL: well, sure, but newer winblowz than 98

22:11:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how many of those things in production ? 100s ?

22:11:51 asciilifeform: because 'eh it runs anyway, so what if a postdoc has to babysit it'

22:11:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 20,000+

22:12:01 mircea_popescu: sad huh.

22:12:04 asciilifeform: aha.

22:12:11 mircea_popescu: this sort of thing readily informs me as to your views re, say, 0day mkt.

22:12:16 asciilifeform: yes.

22:12:24 PeterL: some equipment is non-widows, like the NMR

22:12:27 asciilifeform: http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html << mandatory spam

22:12:29 assbot: MolBox LLC ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjarQC )

22:12:38 asciilifeform: ~still~ for sale...

22:13:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sad truth of the matter dept, this is kinda why the closed box crud even exists, that's the vp : "by the time someone undoes the shit, it'll be too late for the world to care"

22:13:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, when this was new, i even blew a few hundy on... google ads

22:13:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i believe it. "advertising" works as well as make-up.

22:13:22 asciilifeform: we even got a call with the hw vendor

22:13:30 asciilifeform: no shit, the swiss

22:13:35 mircea_popescu: and ?

22:13:49 asciilifeform: they hungy up once i explained that 'no this is not a winblows app, it is not a plugin for yours, it replaces 'evoware' '

22:14:03 mircea_popescu: PeterL it's just miserable management, whether you see it or not.

22:14:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: story is in the logz iirc.

22:14:33 PeterL: I guess I don't see what you would do instead?

22:15:36 mircea_popescu: only buy open hardware. if hardware is considered for buying, add the cost of reversing and opening it to the bill, to make a proper comparison.

22:15:59 mircea_popescu: ie, the win98 item is 100k in cash + 4,5mn in fixing it to spec ; this is 340k in cash + 0 etc.

22:16:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is NO open lab automation sys.

22:16:09 asciilifeform: NO open spectrophotometer.

22:16:12 asciilifeform: NO open mass spec.

22:16:14 asciilifeform: NO open gc.

22:16:15 asciilifeform: etc.

22:16:15 asciilifeform: etc.

22:16:17 mircea_popescu: mostly because of abdication discussed above.

22:16:24 asciilifeform: well no shit!

22:16:26 mircea_popescu: there is also no us research worth the mention.

22:16:34 PeterL: asciilifeform has it, there is no open lab equipment or software

22:16:36 asciilifeform: NO open chinese or russian either

22:16:39 asciilifeform: or brazilian or wtf

22:16:41 asciilifeform: NONE

22:16:44 mircea_popescu: because closed is always a competition of empires, and the chinese got 10x more cash.

22:16:58 asciilifeform: aha and their idiot crud runs for winblowz.

22:17:09 mircea_popescu: what do they care.

22:17:20 PeterL: except NMR

22:17:26 asciilifeform: and, notably, my phone does NOT ring with folks asking for reversed hw.

22:18:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429246 << epic :D

22:18:05 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:40:03; funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order

22:18:18 mircea_popescu: "this decentralized paradigm is great, now can we make it centralized again plox"

22:18:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notably, my tecan proggy allows user to use non-branded furniture in the machine.

22:18:59 asciilifeform: one would THINK this would make a diff to someone !>?

22:19:00 asciilifeform: but no.

22:19:05 mircea_popescu: heh.

22:19:27 mircea_popescu: wgat is this tecan ting anyway ?

22:19:42 asciilifeform: robot.

22:19:44 asciilifeform: see my film.

22:19:49 asciilifeform: (linked)

22:20:00 asciilifeform: narrated, even, by yers truly

22:20:08 asciilifeform: long ago.

22:20:24 mircea_popescu: molbox labminion hehe cute

22:20:38 asciilifeform: 0 sales.

22:21:04 asciilifeform: so what if the thing let me use a 5k usd spectrophotometre instead of 50k golden toilet that has FEWER wavelengths ?!

22:21:07 asciilifeform: no one gave a shit.

22:21:09 asciilifeform: or half a shit.

22:21:25 mircea_popescu: quite problematic huh.

22:21:35 asciilifeform: not china, not north kr, not fuucking antarktica

22:21:44 asciilifeform: crickets.

22:21:46 mircea_popescu: i mean, this would be the exact textbook example of "work really hard, do something useful, be rich"

22:22:01 mircea_popescu: except by now the shitworld is so thick with shit, it "only works" for approved lottery winner.

22:22:05 asciilifeform: 100% lisp btw.

22:22:13 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu has it.

22:22:50 mircea_popescu: "be less poor" suddenly a lot bitter than previously contemplated, huh ?

22:22:56 asciilifeform: i busted arse to make that thing. and afaik nothing like it exists to this day.

22:23:01 *: trinque takes off his hat

22:23:02 asciilifeform: aha.

22:23:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it makes you feel better, i'd buy it for the putative chemistry lab i don't run.

22:23:23 asciilifeform: l0lk

22:23:32 BingoBoingo: !b 2

22:23:33 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0S4NDZ2.txt )

22:23:51 mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm sorry.

22:24:11 asciilifeform: applicable to other industrial uses incidentally

22:24:14 asciilifeform: e.g., production line

22:24:24 asciilifeform: anywhere there is moving gizmos.

22:24:44 asciilifeform: anywy this was long ago and now mircea_popescu knows some of the perspective it gave.

22:25:19 mircea_popescu: well guaranteedly you can't make any mircea_popescu 's thus, they'd simply burn down your world.

22:25:32 mircea_popescu: cheap way to make high iq arsonists i guess.

22:25:35 asciilifeform: aha.

22:25:37 asciilifeform: which is what i am.

22:26:10 mircea_popescu: my experience, on the contrary - whenever mp as much as vaguely disliked a world, that world caught on fire by itself and cut off its own head.

22:26:30 asciilifeform: what can i say , mircea_popescu is better arsonist than i

22:26:48 asciilifeform: i came here to learn from him !

22:26:58 mircea_popescu: how;s that coming along ?

22:27:01 deedbot-: [Qntra] Microsoft Bundles Adware With Security Update - http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-bundles-adware-with-security-update/

22:27:13 asciilifeform: methinks i am learning.

22:27:20 mircea_popescu: well then i'm glad to hear.

22:28:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429260 << this is actually quite reasonable. trinque : please rebase ? funenstein_ sure, which tree is yours ?

22:28:51 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:46:17; funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree

22:28:56 mircea_popescu: quite how this'd work in sanity.

22:29:15 mircea_popescu: (well really, it'd be more like "i'd like your x rebased for my tree, here it is, you see problem ?", but w/e)

22:29:17 PeterL: asciilifeform this robot thing looks much like what I saw at Dow, I never used it but I had coworkers who used these things for high-throughput research, I dunno what software they used

22:29:32 asciilifeform: now iam remembering things about lm, i had many nice things, had motion planning, could run the thing 10-20x faster thaan 'evoware' (we called it 'evilware') because mine was ~guaranteed~ not to crash, etc.

22:29:45 asciilifeform: PeterL: everyone uses the thing that comes with the instrument.

22:29:50 asciilifeform: because the alternative is the one discussed.

22:29:58 mircea_popescu: you know, you two could perhaps help each other ?

22:30:09 PeterL: yeah, prolly something winblows

22:30:27 mircea_popescu: PeterL get him in room to pitch his thing, make 15% or w/e ? asciilifeform you should prolly hire someone to make the pitch tho.

22:30:55 asciilifeform: sad thing is that i can't easily demo. my outfit never afforded own tecan.

22:31:05 asciilifeform: when the lab closed, we lost access to the thing.

22:31:21 mircea_popescu: a problem, perhaps not insurmountable.

22:31:24 PeterL: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is going to reverse engineer an LC-MS? and what, we get better performance out of it or something?

22:31:27 asciilifeform: tried 4, 5 times to buy a used one.

22:31:32 asciilifeform: fell through each time.

22:31:32 mircea_popescu: can you cleanly hook it up to an existing unit ?

22:31:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: every unit is slightly different.

22:31:47 mircea_popescu: PeterL well he did make the 10-20x faster claim ?

22:32:02 mircea_popescu: seems to me a 50% speed gain in high thoroughput research would be worth money.

22:32:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is specifically for robot arms

22:32:11 asciilifeform: could not, naturally, make this claim for an ms !

22:32:33 asciilifeform: see, mircea_popescu, simply NOT USING WINBLOWZ is a guaranteed gain in ANY conveyor!

22:32:37 asciilifeform: but do you see folks doing it ?

22:32:42 asciilifeform: skip the ransomware, the usgola, etc.

22:32:44 PeterL: that was at *previous* job

22:32:45 asciilifeform: but anyone does ?

22:32:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see folks PITCHED it either.

22:32:52 asciilifeform: fwiw i pitched.

22:33:00 mircea_popescu: to whom ? how did it go ?

22:33:06 asciilifeform: to 5-6 labs

22:33:15 asciilifeform: it all ended with crickets chirping

22:33:26 mircea_popescu: did you try to close yourself ?

22:33:32 asciilifeform: what's that mean

22:33:50 mircea_popescu: when you say "we did pitch" do you mean, you went into the room, or did you hire someone who does this professionally ?

22:34:05 asciilifeform: we hired nobody, had no money.

22:34:19 asciilifeform: tried to get vc even, also silence

22:34:22 mircea_popescu: while i am not actually saying "well that's why", do bear in mind you're a miserable closer.

22:34:45 asciilifeform: my partner is not nearly as inept as i

22:34:58 mircea_popescu: ah so partner pitched ?

22:34:59 asciilifeform: (ph.d. in his 60s)

22:35:12 asciilifeform: together, we pitched.

22:35:17 mircea_popescu: you have to understand, this is an actual job, exactly as respectable as whore.

22:35:25 asciilifeform: yes.

22:35:32 mircea_popescu: you wouldn't expect to come out of your bosses' cake, on a day's notice, would you.

22:35:32 asciilifeform: fwiw he was well placed in biochem wot

22:35:37 mircea_popescu: at least not to any positive response.

22:35:42 asciilifeform: and many many folks begged management to buy our thing

22:35:47 asciilifeform: but always same reply.

22:35:48 mircea_popescu: hm.

22:36:43 mircea_popescu: same reply being ?

22:37:07 asciilifeform: 'fuckoff'

22:37:12 mircea_popescu: wow they say that ?!

22:37:17 asciilifeform: it is also possible that folks were afraid of voided warranties

22:37:30 asciilifeform: the instruments typically come with service contract, $xx,xxx/y

22:37:54 asciilifeform: the vendor cannot in most jurisdictions entirely forbid the use of 3rd party soft, but can make life harder for the user.

22:38:02 mircea_popescu: funny that you didn't even have to be sued by tecan.

22:38:05 asciilifeform: aha!

22:38:10 asciilifeform: i was half-convinced they would!

22:38:14 mircea_popescu: my previous idea of "normally this is how this sort of thing gets killed"

22:38:23 asciilifeform: but tecan - cleverly - understood that they do not NEED to buy OR sue

22:38:28 asciilifeform: that we would wither away naturally.

22:38:38 mircea_popescu: and that understanding is necessarily not deductive.

22:39:02 asciilifeform: aha, possibly they made some calls somewhere.

22:39:06 asciilifeform: i had and still have nfi.

22:39:57 asciilifeform: note that we were never able to get capital to even get a demo machine.

22:40:04 asciilifeform: much less sell the whole orchestra in kit.

22:40:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429278 << what's your idea of that lens ?

22:40:10 assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 21:01:33; thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry

22:40:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for my own curiosity, was this ever on, say, slashdot ?

22:41:16 asciilifeform: nope.

22:41:24 asciilifeform: why would it.

22:41:39 mircea_popescu: it's a good story.

22:41:39 asciilifeform: iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw

22:41:49 mircea_popescu: "here's how we tried - and failed - to do somerthing useful"

22:42:50 *: BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem

22:44:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not want to put a final gravestone on it.

22:44:37 asciilifeform: i do ~not~ think the matter was of insufficient propaganda.

22:44:48 asciilifeform: the matter is that the buyers for this thing simply do not exist !

22:44:59 mircea_popescu: "putting final gravestone" and writing the above story are not the same.

22:45:03 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw << FWIW, after sporatic success it has taken about "3 ani experienta" before I got rather reliable results infultrating the various web traffic concentrators to gather eyes.

22:46:08 asciilifeform: the other sad thing is that we do not have the capital.

22:46:19 asciilifeform: for one thing, deployment would require ~month+ of my full time at the site.

22:46:27 mircea_popescu: that bad ?

22:46:28 asciilifeform: to fit the thing to the instruments in question.

22:46:29 asciilifeform: aha.

22:46:40 asciilifeform: this is not a mcdonalds deep fryer.

22:46:49 asciilifeform: this is a every-$500K-box-is-unique thing.

22:46:49 mircea_popescu: maybe the economics are just not there, let's try and quantify this.

22:46:57 mircea_popescu: so, what's the list value of the item in question ?

22:47:14 asciilifeform: 'evo' sold, in those days at least, for 250-500k depending on dealer options.

22:47:27 asciilifeform: support - again somewhere north of, iirc, 50k/y

22:47:42 mircea_popescu: ok. say 300k, +50k/y contract.

22:47:53 asciilifeform: this was for the naked instrument.

22:47:57 asciilifeform: straight from the swiss.

22:48:04 mircea_popescu: now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?

22:48:22 asciilifeform: case by case.

22:48:29 mircea_popescu: i need a number.

22:48:58 asciilifeform: very difficult to quantify. depends on what they paid their babysitter for the cruddy winblowz thing, how much money they lost to destroyed work on account of microshit.

22:49:01 asciilifeform: how do i quantify this?!

22:49:19 mircea_popescu: i have no idea, but that doesn't mean it's not your job to.

22:49:37 mircea_popescu: did you ever run a typical case ?

22:49:49 asciilifeform: there isa typical case??!!!

22:50:03 mircea_popescu: looky : a "typical case" is a convention, allowing management to make judgements.

22:50:25 asciilifeform: this is a every-lab-is-entirely-different sort of thing, afaik.

22:50:31 mircea_popescu: it is, much like the "average voter", "median consumer" etc, a fiction, made by some methods.

22:50:32 asciilifeform: we had 3 just in the building where i worked !

22:50:37 asciilifeform: and all were entirely diff

22:50:44 asciilifeform: in terms of workflow

22:50:44 mircea_popescu: i don't care how fucking different they are. typical case will be had or the sky falls.

22:51:06 asciilifeform: i went out and did intelligence

22:51:14 mircea_popescu: anyway, if you don't have the experience to discuss typical, discuss case study. the one time you tried this.

22:51:17 asciilifeform: found, later, that MOST evo were bought by forensic (police) labs

22:51:20 asciilifeform: which are bound to usgola

22:51:22 asciilifeform: by statute.

22:51:33 asciilifeform: this handily explained maybe half of my problem.

22:51:34 mircea_popescu: explain this.

22:51:38 asciilifeform: aha

22:51:51 mircea_popescu: no i mean, explain "which are bound to usgola".

22:53:27 asciilifeform: they have to use ~certified~ crud

22:54:39 asciilifeform: this means 1) winblowz 2) massive bag of payola to 'cerfifiers'

22:54:42 asciilifeform: think fda.

22:55:07 mircea_popescu: afaik they still buy whatever donuts they want.

22:55:19 asciilifeform: yeah but this is not doughnut

22:55:24 asciilifeform: this would actually touch the evidence.

22:55:37 asciilifeform: anyway ianal

22:55:41 asciilifeform: but this is what i found out.

22:56:11 mircea_popescu: seeing all the recent scandals with falsifications etc, i'd be much surprised if they even run the equipment anymore, so yeah.

22:56:17 asciilifeform: maaaaaaaybe we could have 'fought city hall' IF WE HAD MONEY

22:56:19 mircea_popescu: and in other news, omfg this provolone is magnificent.

22:56:19 asciilifeform: WE DID NOT

22:56:30 asciilifeform: and still don;t.

22:56:37 asciilifeform: because how.

22:56:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is it like 10% ?

22:57:08 asciilifeform: which

22:57:43 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?

22:57:56 asciilifeform: can be 10, could be 1000

22:58:12 asciilifeform: my lab tested custom compounds in vitro, some worth $50k/gram

22:58:17 asciilifeform: ruined sample is a loss.

22:58:41 asciilifeform: the competition to the machine was asian gurlz for $15/h

22:58:51 asciilifeform: they were accurate, mostly, but could not match the speed.

22:58:57 asciilifeform: but wtf woudl a usg lab care about speed.

23:00:01 asciilifeform: again if it helps to understand this, it is not a plug-and-go thing, i would have to show up in PERSON and work out the process flow

23:00:02 mircea_popescu: ok, so what i'll say is, "this machine, once deployed, would improve your workflow by about 15%, which is worth about 50k or so. it could also be had hiring techs, at a cost of about 60k a year for the machine's lifespan"

23:00:12 asciilifeform: and reverse any proprietary hardware they have that i did not have when i wrote it.

23:00:31 mircea_popescu: "the cost for its deployment includes me spending a month fucking up yoru shit, which is about 10k or so, and our fee, which is 2500 a year"

23:00:33 mircea_popescu: this about it ?

23:01:02 asciilifeform: approx.

23:01:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you forget that in a previous lifetime i made a lot of money out of insepcting and changing production workflow.

23:01:11 asciilifeform: though this is mega-lowball

23:01:18 asciilifeform: and assumes no surgical, if you will, complications.

23:01:26 asciilifeform: and yeah i recall

23:01:28 mircea_popescu: mega lowball ie, re cost ?

23:01:37 asciilifeform: aha

23:01:47 mircea_popescu: i can see why it didn't sell.

23:02:00 mircea_popescu: not to say it is your fault, tho. but i can see why it didn't sell, needn't any conspiracy to explain it.

23:02:08 asciilifeform: didn't say there was !

23:02:29 asciilifeform: and also recall that i'm a nobody with nothing. i dont;' even have the money to make 10k one month and then nothing for 3.

23:03:22 mircea_popescu: this is a large part of the problem. there's a hidden barrier to entry here, that is the "cost to enter wot". ie, as a manager of x item, i MAY consider dealing wioth nobody. but not over anything.

23:03:41 asciilifeform: aha.

23:03:47 asciilifeform: certainly not a half mil machine!

23:03:49 mircea_popescu: much like the cost to send bitcoin txn, that random derps imagine to be "=fee" is in fact something like 0.5 to 5 btc PER TX, if you include EVERYTHING ytou need to run bitcoin payments,

23:03:51 asciilifeform: handling 50k/gram samples !!

23:03:57 mircea_popescu: just so the cost of dealing with some dude is not 0 in any sense.

23:03:59 asciilifeform: agha!!

23:04:06 mircea_popescu: just the fact that i have toi make an entry in my phonebook is $$$.

23:04:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is SMARRT and GETS IT!

23:04:24 mircea_popescu: experience carries a long way.

23:04:53 asciilifeform: that thing was, if you will, my 'formative' naggum experience.

23:04:54 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't take this failure to be more informative than it is. the technology never entered into discussion, it failed on economic grounds.

23:05:04 asciilifeform: certainly did!

23:05:26 asciilifeform: and the solution was 'stop being you, be somebody else'

23:05:31 asciilifeform: but all i had was being me.

23:05:33 mircea_popescu: not exactly.

23:05:41 mircea_popescu: ima finish eating and come back to this.

23:09:57 mircea_popescu: so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.

23:10:07 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.

23:10:24 mircea_popescu: incidentally, this trap is what informs the vc circus' derpage about "big" bla bla.

23:10:57 mircea_popescu: yeah, it metastasized into idiocy, but originally it's the very logical observation that the draw needed to make sales in b2b is much larger than consumer.

23:13:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-10.log.html#t19:57:29 << "true quality ~as seen before~". ie, let's just call it that for the sake of calling it something.

23:13:27 assbot: #Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-03-10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ra55mS )

23:13:38 mircea_popescu: damn.