Transcript for 10-04-2014, 2054 lines:
00:00:12 dignork: wrong window :)
00:01:58 mod6: one thing that i seem to remember that I didn't like (many many moons ago) about xchat is that if you derp-paste a bunch of stuff into the wrong window, it doens't ask you if you're sure you'd like to do spammy paste.
00:02:19 mod6: irssi does ask, on the other hand.
00:02:29 mod6: CTRL+K to paste spam
00:03:05 dignork: mod6, weechat blocks it too
00:03:13 mod6: ahh coo
00:03:50 thestringpuller: oh look who finally decides to show up
00:03:55 *: thestringpuller looks at mod6
00:03:58 thestringpuller: lol
00:04:05 mod6: ahh looks reasonable, dignork
00:04:12 mod6: lol thestringpuller
00:04:19 mod6: got my teef drilled. ugh.
00:04:31 mod6: my entire face is numb.
00:04:38 mod6: they loaded me up.
00:05:42 *: mod6 drools
00:07:30 *: jurov uses Konversation. tried irssi but it was a pain
00:07:59 mod6: couldn't get it configured?
00:08:09 mod6: (the way you wanted it)
00:10:12 jurov: not sure if the window management can be configured to get at least halfway to my mental model
00:10:32 mod6: ah
00:10:34 jurov: and i was also "lucky" to run into 6yr old bugs with otr
00:11:23 dignork: jurov, try weechat, no stick/unstick madness, and otr works too
00:11:31 pankkake: irssi otr known to be buggy
00:11:43 dignork: done shilling for today
00:11:51 jurov: i just funded development of spiffy znc-otr plugin
00:11:53 Duffer1: stick/unstick?
00:12:20 dignork: Duffer1, irssi has a weird idea about split-window functionality
00:12:22 jurov: so i don't have to stick to one client
00:12:38 Duffer1: isee
00:12:47 *: mod6 has never used split
00:13:14 *: dignork has a hude monitor, one window is too depressing
00:13:19 dignork: *huge
00:13:48 mod6: ah.
00:16:20 jurov: oh and original znc-otr succeeded to crash weechat's otr
00:16:38 jurov: so i'm not going to trust that one, too :)
00:19:49 dignork: jurov, i have otr in weechat, want to try crushing it? just curious.
00:29:39 dignork: Sammey, printf("We're all going to die\n");
00:30:00 dignork: dammit, multi-window has it problems
00:30:15 thestringpuller: lol otr
00:30:51 dignork: thestringpuller, but why?
00:31:44 thestringpuller: no i was saying it's good stuff
00:32:11 thestringpuller: i was just lol'ing cause i've talked about otr unrelated to this channel today; so lol'ing at the coincidence
00:49:58 decimation: mircea_popescu: "kalophilos, exists as such in german" << I see what you did there
01:01:19 SatoshiJack: ;;ident
01:09:28 TestingUnoDosTre: .d
01:09:28 ozbot: 6.120 billion | Next Diff in 1327 blocks | Estimated Change: 3.8349% in 8d 20h 31m 57s
01:11:40 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ticker
01:15:56 benkay: thestringpuller: ping
01:18:30 mod6: whats up benkay, thestringpuller is in transit or something
01:18:42 benkay: cool
01:18:54 mod6: so he pushed us back a bit, which works fine for me.
01:19:12 benkay: ah neat
01:32:03 Mats_cd03: ;;commands
01:32:10 Mats_cd03: ;;seen cads
01:32:29 Mats_cd03: hes dead
01:37:05 mikaeldice: ;;aol
01:37:50 nubbins`: ;;aol i wonder what this will do to my text
01:37:57 mikaeldice: ;;aol I want to invest in bitcoin securities
01:38:05 nubbins`: ;;aol heh
01:38:17 mikaeldice: It's just like bitcointalk
01:41:17 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;halfreward
01:41:43 TestingUnoDosTre: Y3K
01:42:53 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;nethash
01:44:46 mike_c: i butthurt gribble. <gribble> You've given me 12 commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 5 minutes.
01:47:19 TestingUnoDosTre: what are your thoughts on the price spike of btc so close to the block reward halving?
01:49:07 Mats_cd03: good news
01:49:46 TestingUnoDosTre: but were they entirely related?
01:50:05 benkay: when was the last halvening?
01:50:10 TestingUnoDosTre: November 28, 2013
01:50:40 TestingUnoDosTre: bitstamp high happened November 30, 2013
01:52:12 TestingUnoDosTre: Bueller?
01:54:27 mike_c: unrelated. plus, who cares. next one isn't for 2 years.
01:54:45 benkay: supply and demand curves always hold, mike_c
01:55:18 mike_c: yes.. but supply != block reward
01:55:23 TestingUnoDosTre: I cares
01:55:39 benkay: you're entirely wrong.
01:56:01 mike_c: oh yeah? well, YOU'RE entirely wrong.
01:56:10 benkay: supply is that which is constant!
01:56:32 TestingUnoDosTre: if you're talking about mined BTC, that supply definitely dropped
01:56:44 TestingUnoDosTre: say like, 50 percent
01:56:50 benkay: the only constant input in the system is the mining reward
01:56:54 benkay: sorry that was rude of me, mike_c
01:57:40 mike_c: (not butthurt). but the system being discussed is supply on the exchanges. which is not equal to freshly mined coins. many other factors.
01:58:21 benkay: input into system
01:58:50 TestingUnoDosTre: ooo I like that... like a thermodynamics equation
02:02:17 benkay: only valid frame of reference, TestingUnoDosTre
02:02:26 jborkl: Benkay is right supply is static, it is demand we don't know about
02:02:43 TestingUnoDosTre: how is supply static?
02:02:48 TestingUnoDosTre: *during a diff change
02:02:48 jborkl: We know how many btc there will be next year
02:02:54 TestingUnoDosTre: approximately
02:02:58 benkay: we know how many btc there will be per block
02:03:03 mike_c: it's not static. supply is not how many btc there are, it's how many are for sale.
02:03:20 jborkl: That is demand
02:03:28 mike_c: no, buyers are demand. sellers are supply
02:03:38 benkay: supply is input into the system
02:03:48 jborkl: ^
02:03:51 benkay: its the only way you can make the thing conserve
02:03:56 benkay: which is the whole damn point
02:03:57 mike_c: for instance, mp has a bunch of coins. they are not supply because they are not for sale.
02:04:10 jborkl: That is not more coons
02:04:13 jborkl: Coins
02:04:14 benkay: yeah
02:04:18 benkay: heh
02:04:27 jborkl: Heh badbtypo
02:04:31 benkay: a hoard is in no sense supply
02:04:38 TestingUnoDosTre: they will be if Bitcoin does worse than BRK-A this year
02:04:45 mike_c: right. and if miners are hoarding coins, block reward is not supply
02:05:37 benkay: mike_c: have you ever done the physics thing where you draw a circle around a system and label ins and outs?
02:06:01 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;google physics mass balance
02:07:06 ozbot: Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
02:09:18 mike_c: benkay: it is fine to say it is an input. but i am saying it is a miniscule part of the equation.
02:09:20 TestingUnoDosTre: His example is slightly hogwash, as mtcox falsely increased the supply of bitcoins, and the price still increased.
02:10:37 jborkl: Bugpowder was a excellent trader
02:10:49 jborkl: That is to what he is referring
02:11:00 jborkl: Short term sentiment
02:11:57 thestringpuller: Bugpowder was a compulsive gambler too.
02:12:14 jborkl: And if mtgox inflated the supply of coins so the price should have been depressed
02:12:33 jborkl: I did not say he was a good gambler
02:12:41 jborkl: He was not good at that
02:22:30 TestingUnoDosTre: jborkl, what was your point. I didn't understand - what was bugpowder talking about?
02:30:35 Mats_cd03: i wonder what the benefits are like
02:31:18 Shakespeare: "This episode of CSI is so (adjective I forgot), the only way to experience it is to watch!"
02:31:21 Shakespeare: sigh...
02:33:14 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;nextretarget
02:34:30 TestingUnoDosTre: wait a tick. The last block reward halving was November 28, 2012. DOH
02:37:47 mike_c: see, i told you it wasn't an input ;)
02:38:17 benkay: there were serious distortions in the market over the past year
02:39:27 TestingUnoDosTre: no disagreement there
02:44:27 Shakespeare: facebook lols: I made a post briefing normals on heartbleed and the general concept that internet privacy doesnt really exist. Here's the best response so far: "Is Lifelock an answer?"
02:45:31 TestingUnoDosTre: if you want to get Lifefucked
02:47:13 artifexd: .bait
02:50:29 Shakespeare: missing snorkels!
03:14:05 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ticker
03:23:38 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ticker
03:27:17 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ticker
03:36:32 benkay: 450 -> 425
03:36:36 benkay: tell me that ain't a slide
03:36:48 *: nubbins` raises hands, shouts with glee
03:39:13 benkay: ;;later tell mike_c sometimes i think supply is constrained on the fiat -> btc pipe. if cash and reputation and connections are all you have, that's not a terribly wide pipe. perhaps there was something to gox' occasional ability to turn fiat wires into btc
03:39:40 nubbins`: sometimes you think? :D
03:40:03 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ticker
03:40:12 benkay: ;;later tell mike_c i guess the appropriate local metaphor would be "for those who prayed, dove through, and magically weren't sliced to bits by the chumpatron"
03:40:19 nubbins`: TestingUnoDosTre: do you need to do that so often? :(
03:40:20 TestingUnoDosTre: spread is opening
03:40:26 TestingUnoDosTre: sorry
03:40:39 TestingUnoDosTre: no one was chatting before, thought I had the room to myself :D
03:40:42 nubbins`: protip: /msg gribble ticker :)
03:41:06 nubbins`: OT: we finally got ourselves an American Apparel wholesale account
03:41:40 nubbins`: turns out having a factory in downtown los angeles makes for expensive bulk tees
03:44:18 TestingUnoDosTre: t-shirts are expensive?
03:46:12 Mats_cd03: colin firth on daily show tonight
03:46:14 Mats_cd03: not bad
03:46:15 nubbins`: it's a relative measure
03:47:45 Mats_cd03: how hard was it to get the account
03:48:17 MisterE: oops :/
03:48:20 nubbins`: way to paste
03:48:22 nubbins`: ;(
03:48:28 MisterE: sorry didnt know that was in the buffer, guess I pased out last night :/
03:48:34 *: Mats_cd03 slaps MisterE
03:48:49 joecool: whole lotta nothin there
03:49:06 MisterE: I'm surprised I didnt get flood kicked
03:49:06 nubbins`: Mats_cd03: three-page application form. we didn't have to fill out the whole thing because we pay up-front with credit cards, but if you want to do net 30 etc, you have to provide business references and a ton of extra info
03:49:31 nubbins`: also had to sign a contract stating that we won't, among other things, reveal prices nor will we resell undecorated garments
03:49:57 MisterE: bit of a selloff on the BOA news
03:49:57 Mats_cd03: i see
03:50:05 nubbins`: that said, same-day turnaround once we submitted the application
03:51:38 nubbins`: for reference, a plain AA unisex tee is about 40% more expensive than our go-to shirt (organic cotton) and 150% more expensive than our "discount quality" shirt
03:51:50 ozbot: Agricultural Bank of China FREEZES BITCOIN accounts on 4/15 : Bitcoin
03:52:18 Mats_cd03: lol
03:52:50 nubbins`: good bulk discounts, but they only kick in when you buy a dozen of the same style, color, and size
03:53:10 nubbins`: mot much use for a company that doesn't stock blanks :D
03:53:35 benkay: there's a certain symmetry to this one: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22ny8h/agricultural_bank_of_china_freezes_bitcoin/cgoohv9
03:53:59 MisterE: heh
03:59:23 TestingUnoDosTre: bid depth on bistamp: 405 - 4000 , 400 - 10000
03:59:27 TestingUnoDosTre: what is that
04:01:12 TestingUnoDosTre: and by "What" I mean, Why are there more bids between 405 to 400 than there are compared with 400 to 395
04:02:29 Duffer1: i think chatzilla knows it's about to be replaced
04:02:33 Duffer1: it's stopped wrapping text >.<
04:04:13 cazalla: MisterE: you know who runs CoinJar right?
04:04:49 cazalla: MisterE: https://blog.coinjar.com/2014/04/10/nab-bitcoin-and-you/
04:05:25 cazalla: We have 4 major banks in Australia, CJ has been kicked from 2 now, other being CommBank
04:06:19 nubbins`: i gotta say, i liked australia a lot more as a kid
04:06:50 MisterE: I gotta agree with that sentiment
04:11:43 cazalla: yeah, seems there is a disproportionate amount of bitcoin scammers from here
04:13:51 cazalla: one of the latest being some real estate hustler who was in the papers saying he was bringing 100 robocoins to australia
04:14:31 cazalla: he also ran a conference where last year he said the winklevoss twins were book, months pass and it was the winklevoss twins are a maybe, then it's deleted from the website and the headliner was jeffrey tucker instead lol
04:14:47 cazalla: were booked*
04:15:28 MisterE: at least you don't have her: http://gawker.com/this-is-the-florida-woman-behind-the-topless-mcdonalds-1561300866
04:16:15 nubbins`: crazy/10 would not do business with
04:17:55 ozbot: LiveLeak.com - Topless chick goes crazy in Mcdonalds
04:21:12 nubbins`: leel
04:21:23 nubbins`: actually crazy/10 would do business with
04:30:40 nubbins`: ;;later tell mike_c lel, eulorum.org is overrun with bot spam ;(
04:30:49 Duffer1: blah is there no weechat for windows?
04:33:10 Duffer1: nm cygwin brb buying linux laptop >.<
04:33:37 nubbins`: you can buy linux laptops? ;D
04:34:08 Duffer1: i can buy a laptop and install linux over whatever it comes with
04:34:28 TestingUnoDosTre: chrometop?
04:34:41 nubbins`: that's not the same as buying a linux laptop
04:34:43 Duffer1: i looked at those but they max at 16gb
04:34:52 nubbins`: mostly because you're paying microsoft $25
04:35:35 Duffer1: if i bought it new sure, but i'm looking at used, something i5 i can throw an ssd in
04:36:04 nubbins`: ah, then you get a pass
04:36:06 nubbins`: :D
04:36:16 Duffer1: :)
04:36:38 Duffer1: so my only experience with linux was probably 15 years ago, and was redhat4dummies
04:36:44 nubbins`: dell will uninstall windows and refund you the $25, as long as you don't turn on your new laptop and pay shipping both ways
04:36:45 Duffer1: what do i want these days?
04:37:02 nubbins`: try ubuntu or mint
04:38:08 Duffer1: thanks
04:41:03 nubbins`: 2:10am, time for sleep
04:41:04 mikaeldice: I can't wait for high resolution display support to become more common on desktop distros
04:42:33 mikaeldice: My lenovo yoga has a 3200x1800 display on 13", which most Linux distros look ridiculous on currently.. Good news is that a lot of the work is already done, just waiting to be included in distro repositories
04:43:52 mikaeldice: I think Ubuntu 14.04 will be the first if you don't want to pull a bleeding edge build for it
04:44:12 mikaeldice: Though I kind of dislike the more recent releases of ubuntu
04:45:16 Duffer1: downloading 13.1 atm from website
04:47:20 Duffer1: oo looks like i should wait for 14.04
04:47:29 cazalla: yeah, 15th i believe
04:49:57 TestingUnoDosTre: damn
04:51:50 benkay: been talking a lot lately about bsd
04:52:03 benkay: don' want no mo ssl holes like that one
05:18:47 ozbot: Rice Hadley Gates LLC | International Strategic Consulting Firm
05:18:56 benkay: i want an international strategic consulting firm!
05:26:20 mike_c: nubbins`: ok.. now you have to pick out cat photos to create an account.
05:40:35 mike_c: 2,750 spam accounts created on eulorum. and mediawiki has no way to mass-delete users..
05:40:57 benkay: hahaha
05:41:08 benkay: sucker
05:41:28 benkay: uh so i'm no expert at these things
05:41:40 benkay: being barely capable at my chosen trade in "lisp etc etc
05:41:44 benkay: ("lisp")
05:41:53 benkay: i've just started hacking on c and man is this shit miserable
05:42:16 mike_c: i'll have to figure out how to add blocks in sql. the admin interface is useless.
05:42:33 benkay: tee hee abstractions
05:42:36 MisterE: c is suck
05:42:44 benkay: i dunno man
05:42:47 benkay: mebbe i'm retarded
05:43:38 benkay: i dig the types for sure
05:43:58 benkay: but voof. buffers? in my face? all the time? surely this is not a good use of my brain.
05:57:22 fluffypony: benkay: that's the problem with being that low level
05:58:28 ThickAsThieves: how come china bans bitcoin every week?
05:58:33 ThickAsThieves: yet market always reacts
05:58:50 benkay: market consists of a few people trading over tin can telephones
05:59:00 benkay: ;;ticker
05:59:06 benkay: ;;ticker --market all
05:59:15 benkay: 411 you say.
05:59:41 fluffypony: and that's why I don't price watch
05:59:57 MisterE: not price watching is no fun
06:00:05 ThickAsThieves: buying is fun
06:00:06 MisterE: then you can't make moves and coin up
06:00:58 fluffypony: MisterE: I suck at trading
06:01:04 fluffypony: day trading doubly so
06:01:16 MisterE: I dont usually trade multiple times in a day
06:01:21 MisterE: maybe once a day
06:01:31 MisterE: trends I look for are ~24 hr
06:01:45 fluffypony: true
06:02:02 MisterE: just for play fun, I have other investments that are in cold storage
06:02:59 MisterE: troll the btce trollbox for a while :)
06:03:03 fluffypony: lol
06:03:12 fluffypony: the btc-e trollbox is an awful bunch of human beings
06:05:33 MisterE: truly
06:06:06 fluffypony: arrived yesterday
06:06:16 fluffypony: it arrives unfunded and you email them to "activate" it, then they fund ut
06:06:23 MisterE: I once made a retarded comment about "double inverted helix head & shoulders formation at the 3rd Fibonacci band formed" in trollbox
06:06:24 fluffypony: (to prevent it being lost in transit, presumably)
06:06:36 MisterE: I promptly got a PM asking me what this high tech investment analysis was
06:06:40 fluffypony: MisterE: LOL!
06:15:12 cazalla: fluffypony: why would you trust them?
06:15:37 fluffypony: cazalla: didn't see any negative reviews
06:15:51 fluffypony: and we wanted something presentation-y
06:16:00 cazalla: but how do you know they don't keep a copy of the private key?
06:16:11 fluffypony: we don't
06:16:42 fluffypony: there's a 2 factor authentication thing
06:18:12 fluffypony: I mean check
06:18:26 fluffypony: it's just a gift to them for fun that they may or may not be able to use one day
06:18:35 fluffypony: it's not to put someone's life savings into
06:26:42 [\]: where's mircea?
06:28:50 fluffypony: [\\\]: sleeping?
06:29:53 [\]: I wanted to introduce him to a bunch of new friends
06:30:06 [\]: I name dropped the channel in #bitcoin-pricetalk
06:30:20 fluffypony: heh
06:31:26 akstunt600: oh hey fluffypony
06:31:33 fluffypony: hey akstunt600
06:31:48 akstunt600: thanks for the invite [\\\]
06:38:47 [\]: it wasn't a fucking invite
06:39:09 [\]: fluffypony, people don't know about /list *bitcoin*
06:39:30 fluffypony: people don't know about /list
06:39:36 [\]: sadly
06:40:50 keonne_: people don't know about irc in general
06:40:54 fluffypony: yeah
06:41:15 fluffypony: a lot of people think that mIRC *is* IRC
06:41:20 dub: sadly they now know about this channel
06:41:35 fluffypony: they have nfi about the underlying architecture or what services are available and what they do
06:41:56 keonne: dub: one insult from mirecea will probably change that
06:42:59 keonne: hows its going mr pony?
06:43:11 keonne: how is South Africa on this fine Thursday
06:43:13 fluffypony: keonne: not too bad
06:43:16 fluffypony: it's REALLY foggy today
06:43:21 fluffypony: I took a picture, will upload it in a bit
06:43:29 keonne: cool, i like pictures
06:43:33 keonne: especially of your wife
06:43:36 keonne: :p
06:43:39 fluffypony: we're like 1.2kms from shore, and the fog is right up at the house
06:43:40 fluffypony: lol
06:44:00 keonne: wow thats pretty crazy
06:44:15 keonne: Paris is bright and lovely
06:44:20 fluffypony: ah nice
06:44:28 keonne: I'm leaving today, back to soggy wet England
06:44:31 fluffypony: Paris is beautiful in the spring
06:44:37 keonne: it really is
06:44:37 fluffypony: lol
06:44:47 fluffypony: I could never live in England
06:45:03 keonne: i love England, but it is damp
06:45:06 fluffypony: I love the people and the culture, but the weather would make me sad
06:45:25 keonne: I'm from south Florida, and I hate the heat, so the mild weather is pretty nice
06:45:29 fluffypony: ah ok
06:46:06 keonne: ok now to catch up on the logs
06:46:17 keonne: #bitcoin-assets is like a second job
06:46:37 ozbot: Whitehat hacker goes too far, gets raided by FBI, tells all | Ars Technica
06:47:17 MisterE: keonne: I went to HS in Miami also lived in Tampa and the keys for a while
06:49:35 fluffypony: MisterE: that guy is an idiot
06:49:36 fluffypony: 'I basically "confessed" everything to the FBI already.'
06:49:40 fluffypony: you never talk to the cops!
06:49:51 MisterE: yea
06:49:58 keonne: MisterE: I went to Beach High
06:50:06 keonne: for 2 years anyway, before driopping out
06:50:11 MisterE: S. Miami Beach?
06:50:18 keonne: yep
06:50:37 keonne: c/o 2005
06:50:48 MisterE: I dropped after 2-years too
06:50:52 MisterE: got a GED
06:50:55 keonne: same
06:51:05 keonne: mircea_popescu: <mike_c> yes, it's not like france where they just take your whole paycheck and give you a few dollars a week for coffee and cigarettes. << zing lmao. what you say nao pankkake ? huh ? huh ?
06:51:11 keonne: i lol'd because so true
06:51:26 MisterE: heh, probably in NL too heh
06:52:26 keonne: MisterE: So you grew up in Miami?
06:53:47 MisterE: yea in my teens
06:54:02 MisterE: I was all around the grove and Kendall area
06:54:06 keonne: You seem like a smart guy, so i am assuming you left asap
06:54:18 keonne: that place is a pit
06:54:25 MisterE: yea just before andrew we got out lucky
06:54:41 MisterE: indeed I went back after and asked my friend why they were staying
06:55:13 keonne: oh wow, that is lucky. My dad was emergency services so we stayed during Andrew, was scary/fun
06:55:57 MisterE: oh, I was young then just lucky timing. But later I worked as a paramedic in the west for 3-years
06:56:35 keonne: Yeah I was young too, but I remember it pretty well... I remember the national guard closing streets down and what not
06:57:12 MisterE: Homestead, man never seen anything like that
06:57:18 keonne: yep
06:57:24 MisterE: I'd ben there before I knew it was trailer city
06:58:03 keonne: most of Florida is trailer city, bad move really considering there is a yearly fucking hurricane season, geniuses
06:58:15 MisterE: You know the joke about What do tornadoes and divorces in Kentucky have in common?
06:58:20 keonne: the sun does funny things to people
06:58:22 MisterE: could be FL
06:58:36 keonne: i dont know the joke
06:58:39 MisterE: indeed and back when I was a kid there was so much coke
06:58:52 MisterE: oh, either way someone loses a trailer...
06:58:56 keonne: there still is lol
06:58:57 keonne: haha
06:59:00 MisterE: lel
06:59:38 fluffypony: lol
07:00:59 keonne: 18:44:21 asciilifeform: there was a great soviet cartoon about a kid who hates history class and then gets a time machine
07:01:02 keonne: 18:44:35 asciilifeform: he goes back and kills... just about everyone he failed exams on
07:01:07 keonne: asciilifeform: i need to see this
07:03:22 taub: one panic exhaustion to 350 please and strong reversal
07:03:43 keonne: ugh this robwhiz22 is making my head hurt
07:06:59 MisterE: taub: it's going to be like this until the 15th passes
07:07:23 keonne: ^ agreed
07:08:12 keonne: mircea_popescu: most of the fraudsters that's not written in vi is written in nano
07:08:24 keonne: i also like nano, keeps it simple, and i don't need extra fucking thumbs
07:09:43 MisterE: nano and pico ++
07:10:28 MisterE: I dont really know the difference like wget and curl
07:11:15 keonne: wget is recursive
07:11:18 keonne: curl isnt
07:11:50 keonne: among other things
07:12:13 MisterE: i read wget was designed for really crappy connections
07:12:47 MisterE: maybe that means longer timeouts
07:13:42 keonne: God i am regretting all the whisky last night
07:13:55 keonne: i can smell it in my sweat and it is grossing me out
07:52:56 ozbot: Schneier on Security: Heartbleed
07:55:09 dub: herp de derp
08:11:39 keonne: i hate that i have to sell bitcoin today :(
08:15:02 jurov: ;;later tell mikaeldice i resorted to running startx -- -dpi 200 with kde, it works quite nicely.
08:16:54 fluffypony: keonne: yeah that's the worst
08:17:00 fluffypony: when it's low and you have to sell to cover expenses
08:17:01 fluffypony: :/
08:22:58 Apocalyptic: could be worse
08:23:18 keonne: yeah
08:23:27 keonne: its mildly annoying
08:27:09 ozbot: coinjedi / betsofbitco.in SCAMMERS: Declares "Push" on obvious win for BFL bet | Page 18 | Bitcoint
08:32:48 keonne: i hope china bans bitcoin again at the end of the month payday
08:33:46 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
08:33:56 BingoBoingo: ;;more
08:44:59 jurov: ;;bc,convert eur
08:45:59 MisterE: If you didn't already need a reason to DROP Dropbox: http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/09/condoleezza-rice-joins-dropboxs-board/
08:46:18 fluffypony: :(
08:46:25 fluffypony: I like DropBox
08:46:30 Apocalyptic: ...
08:46:44 Apocalyptic: cloud storage is overrated
08:46:47 fluffypony: I mean, it's great for quick collaboration
08:47:08 fluffypony: Apocalyptic: yeah but I tried running ownCloud
08:47:10 fluffypony: and it was shit
09:19:27 dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325431.msg6153395#msg6153395 alberto is on the run as it seems
09:19:28 ozbot: labcoin lawsuit
09:23:19 fluffypony: meh
09:23:27 fluffypony: the only problem with keeping the details all out in the open is that he can see it
09:23:31 fluffypony: and stay ahead of them
09:24:03 dexX7: i assume what is posted there is the bare minimum
09:24:09 fluffypony: hopefullly
09:29:18 dub: i assume that IS alberto
09:29:33 fluffypony: dub: clever
09:29:40 fluffypony: very meta if it is
09:29:48 dub: its not 'meta' at all
09:30:30 dexX7: it's not
09:30:36 dexX7: his id was confirmed
09:31:04 fluffypony: dub: it would be - its a scammer scamming the scamhunters :-P
09:31:22 dub: just like you confirmed who labcoin was before investin
09:31:33 dexX7: :D
09:31:47 fluffypony: lol
09:31:55 fluffypony: "due diligence" much
09:40:36 dub: !t h am1
09:51:10 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
09:53:00 dexX7: ^ i guess china banned bitcoin again
10:32:32 Mats_cd03: geez, the price keeps correcting each time i pick up more btc ;(
10:32:44 dexX7: before or after you bought? ;)
10:32:56 Mats_cd03: after hence the tear
10:32:59 dexX7: meh
10:33:13 Mats_cd03: im being punished for not using -otc
10:33:47 dexX7: how would -otc help in this case?
10:34:32 truffles: cheaper
10:34:38 Mats_cd03: it wouldn't, it would just be mildly cheaper
10:34:46 dexX7: ah
10:35:32 Apocalyptic: cheaper ?
10:35:50 Apocalyptic: otc usual rates are quite above the market price
10:36:07 truffles: u sure?
10:36:13 Apocalyptic: heh
10:36:23 Apocalyptic: i'm an op there and frequent trader, so yeah pretty muc
10:36:24 Apocalyptic: *much
10:36:40 truffles: so u know that coin guy pfff
10:36:46 Apocalyptic: I do
10:36:48 truffles: let me quote u what happened
10:37:11 truffles: we were talking about pool, and how he can get 1k per game easy etc
10:37:26 truffles: so obv he's some kinda pool shark/baller
10:37:45 Mats_cd03: ;;tell benkay having adventures in C? me too we're bros
10:38:06 Apocalyptic: ;;later tell
10:38:13 Mats_cd03: senkq
10:38:49 truffles: tell?
10:38:58 truffles: oh he failed nm
10:39:21 Mats_cd03: Apocalyptic: oh... i was under the impression it was
10:40:05 truffles: truffles> why is coingenuity on the phone with banks?
10:40:05 truffles: <coingenuity> truffles: because banks are banning bitcoin
10:40:05 truffles: <coingenuity> try sending money to an exchange right now ;)
10:40:05 truffles: <truffles> if ure into btc why do u still hold onto bank accounts..
10:40:05 truffles: <coingenuity> truffles: i run one of the biggest bitcoin companies
10:40:06 truffles: <truffles> well i hope ure on there all day
10:40:06 truffles: * ChanServ sets mode: +o coingenuity
10:40:07 truffles: * You were kicked by coingenuity (you're)
10:40:07 truffles: <truffles> cry about it more plz
10:40:08 truffles: <@coingenuity> truffles: i'm trying to warn you to behave
10:40:08 truffles: <truffles> u mean to stroke ur ego?
10:40:09 truffles: <@coingenuity> really, dude
10:40:09 truffles: <truffles> oh look at u, u have "power"
10:40:10 truffles: * You were kicked by coingenuity (come back when you can behave)
10:40:15 truffles: chat spame
10:40:53 truffles: so then i in #bitcoin i was like "why are u such a bitch" i think im banned there too
10:41:04 Apocalyptic: maybe if you would write properly it wouldn't have escalated that far
10:41:10 truffles: haha
10:41:21 Apocalyptic: cause as far as I can see that's what the first kick was for
10:41:35 truffles: if spelling gets u kicks heh
10:41:40 Duffer1: truffles <coingenuity> truffles: i run one of the biggest bitcoin companies >> wtf is coingenuity?
10:41:47 truffles: some baller
10:41:53 truffles: mod on otc
10:42:07 Apocalyptic: Duffer1, he's running coinabul
10:42:47 truffles: i think he's on some kinda power trip ya know
10:42:50 Duffer1: isee
10:44:51 truffles: "Coinabul has been ripping people off for a while." shit no wonder he can drop 1k a game
10:47:24 kakobrekla: power trip? more like acid trip
10:47:57 Apocalyptic: kako, you have some history with coingenuity ?
10:47:58 BingoBoingo: Power Acid!
10:48:10 kakobrekla: i dont think i do
10:48:59 truffles: not surprised he's not a reputable guy
10:49:23 ozbot: SCAM - Coinabul owe me 81btc
10:50:33 Diablo-D3: so Im signing up with bitpay
10:50:40 Diablo-D3: so I can accept bitcoin
10:51:06 Diablo-D3: I dunno, after all the years Ive been in the Bitcoin community, I just can't turn my back on everyone
10:51:21 truffles: bitcoin for?
10:52:12 truffles: thought u cashed out and now rolling in money piles
10:55:00 ozbot: MPEx.RFC.1 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
10:55:08 mircea_popescu: so please to read and comment
10:56:01 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 so you're averaging your cost down :D
10:56:42 mircea_popescu: <truffles> if spelling gets u kicks heh << dude i thought you were the english expert.
10:56:58 truffles: not on the internet
10:57:22 truffles: pretty sure id best u in something written in english for sure
10:57:34 mircea_popescu: on what, vellum ?
10:57:47 truffles: non pc topic
10:58:03 truffles: bring all ur minions too
10:58:53 truffles: prob not if one is english prof
10:59:07 mircea_popescu: mon minions font minette
11:03:35 pigeons: retro link of the day http://ripper234.com/p/why-i-trust-patrick-harnett/
11:05:02 mircea_popescu: lol
11:05:33 mircea_popescu: poor mr gross.
11:05:46 mircea_popescu: http://ripper234.com/p/mt-gox-is-probably-insolvent/
11:05:52 mircea_popescu: has learned so little over so long.
11:06:54 mircea_popescu: http://ripper234.com/p/why-i-trust-patrick-harnett/comment-page-1/#comment-33568 < with #assets link too.
11:08:10 ozbot: Why I used to trust Patrick Harnett
11:08:27 mircea_popescu: oh i c.
11:08:45 mircea_popescu: the failed business of having lied through your teeth accidentally for great justice.
11:09:25 dexX7: last edit nov 17 2012 though
11:09:29 taub: MisterE> taub: it's going to be like this until the 15th passes
11:09:33 taub: whats on the 15th?
11:09:41 dexX7: china finally bans btc
11:09:43 mircea_popescu: mod6 dignork only noobs want windows ok cancel boxes! i want my client to damn well do what i tell it to.
11:09:46 mircea_popescu: keeps me on my toes.
11:09:59 pigeons: if you dont want pirate risk, i can tell you its not with pirate and pay you less
11:11:13 mircea_popescu: pigeons in a meta-sense, everyone that fucked up so far has been fucked by the same thing : failure to take btc seriously enough. be it the derps that still don't have any, harping about how it's just a fad and quoting tired beanie babies examples,
11:11:42 mircea_popescu: or on the other extreme patrick harnetts and other herps figuring "oh, it's jsut a small little thing, i'm much bigger than it so should be ok"
11:11:54 mircea_popescu: the whole spectrum seems to reduce to "didn't take it seriously enough"
11:16:59 bounce: no definite answer, but a few possibilities: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/10/pgp_email_leak_mystery_snowden_greenwald/
11:17:08 mircea_popescu: jborkl: We know how many btc there will be next year << he has it, btc supply is extremely well know. the function that stabilises the dishing out of btc over time has been EXTREMELY efficient so far, in spite of massive hashpower changes. i would say btc supply side is the best known of any material in history. including gold, which used to hold that distinction (which was a key to its monetization)
11:22:04 mircea_popescu: bounce i myself am happy with the "clueless woman, learned to use gpg last week, does not quite grok what keys are or how they work"
11:22:31 mircea_popescu: i have no idea how come they still give diplomas to lawyers and journalists that aren't fluent with gpg since their sophomore year, but hey.
11:23:04 bounce: because formalities and actual achievements are quite disconnected
11:23:23 mircea_popescu: mike_c: for instance, mp has a bunch of coins. they are not supply because they are not for sale. << they are supply even if they are not for sale. review Wickard v. Filburn :D
11:25:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2014#612648 << still empty log lines ?! kakobrekla omg
11:25:41 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
11:26:03 truffles: maybe he's busy
11:26:14 Apocalyptic: he's editing the shit out of it
11:26:22 truffles: lol
11:27:22 mircea_popescu: lol
11:27:38 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wrt not taking it seriously - not sure about other countries, but we have a new (2009) act here that says that a director will be liable for losses suffered by the company as a result of the director having taken or failed to act against certain unauthorised or unlawful actions and situations
11:27:41 mircea_popescu: cazalla the life of the p t barnum promoter of roadside attractions is a precarious one.
11:28:14 mircea_popescu: fluffypony pretty sure that was the case before 2009, both in common and civil law jurisdictions.
11:28:20 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: not in South Africa
11:28:31 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla o wow he just pasted teh empty ? nm then
11:28:32 fluffypony: was pretty much the wild west here
11:28:36 mircea_popescu: fluffypony ah ah, ok.
11:30:39 mircea_popescu: actually eulorum.org doesn't even load.
11:31:04 mircea_popescu: mikaeldice: Though I kind of dislike the more recent releases of ubuntu << word.
11:32:17 wywialm: hello all
11:32:49 mircea_popescu: [\\\] i am here.
11:32:53 mircea_popescu: hi wy
11:34:26 mircea_popescu: aww dub why so sour ? noobs taste good.
11:39:23 Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu is in high spirits today
11:39:32 Mats_cd03: did you get an afternoon bj
11:41:12 mircea_popescu: i just woke up.
11:41:55 mircea_popescu: keonne: #bitcoin-assets is like a second job << first job for most people here.
11:42:22 truffles: so ure a morning person eh
11:43:50 mircea_popescu: for some definitions of morning.
11:44:57 mircea_popescu: MisterE guy is definitely lying. had he made that reddit post BEFORE having tried to steal the data rather than as a coverup afterthought, all'd hgave been well.
11:45:32 truffles: some ppl r like zombies in the morning
11:46:37 mircea_popescu: yes, but those aren't the people that never woke up with a timer in their life.
11:47:22 truffles: orly
12:42:35 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you still around?
12:43:30 mircea_popescu: ya
12:44:24 thestringpuller: from fraudsters: MPEx webservers will have to keep a copy of the database. This is practically unavoidable (I think) because of two things : you.d like to be able to issue account statements for customers when they want, rather than when you get around to itviii and you.d like to pipe trade data into other services (like twitter, assbot on #bitcoin-assets etc).
12:45:11 thestringpuller: does this mean that each webserver holds trade data?
12:46:10 mircea_popescu: pretty much
12:48:12 thestringpuller: oh for STAT
12:48:18 thestringpuller: i see...
12:53:56 nubbins`: truffles, speeling = improtant
12:54:17 nubbins`: ;;later tell mike_c cats? now I'M signing up for multiple accounts :D
12:54:42 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: inexplainably is, inexplicably, not a word
12:56:15 fluffypony: that's unexplendifirous
12:58:34 nubbins`: i think the word you're looking for is cromulent
12:58:50 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: +1 for lost-key safeguard process, that's clever
13:11:16 kakobrekla: ok lel
13:11:19 ozbot: Invest Bitcoins due to launch shortly!
13:12:31 fluffypony: shut up and take my money!
13:12:43 Mats_cd03: does gpg timestamping continue to be an issue?
13:13:10 Apocalyptic: seriously...
13:13:23 Apocalyptic: "i don't have any idea about wtf i'm doing"
13:13:45 kakobrekla: me neither
13:13:52 pankkake: GPG puts timestamps in signatures?
13:14:38 nubbins`: "The investment is more for people who want to safeguard BTC at the current prices"
13:15:08 nubbins`: so it's just like cashing out, but instead of cashing out into your local currency, you cash out into indian government bonds
13:15:17 nubbins`: sounds like a win-win-win
13:16:09 Mats_cd03: > Because of inherited weakness from pgp’s own timestamping, there is currently no reliable way to resolve time disputes : the client can very well present his own version (as included in the signed material), MPEx will present its own version (as reflected by when it has seen the order) and no further progress can be made (for which reason MPEx’
13:16:09 Mats_cd03: determination is final).
13:17:35 nubbins`: wait a minute, i know why i'm so bleary
13:17:39 *: nubbins` makes coffee
13:18:51 Mats_cd03: only pakistani govt bonds are more safe
13:19:13 pankkake: and don't confuse them with pankkistani bonds
13:19:22 Mats_cd03: weak
13:20:24 ozbot: France Government Bond 10Y | Actual Data | Forecasts | Calendar
13:20:24 nubbins`: yup
13:20:28 nubbins`: ;D
13:26:36 danielpbarron: "please learn to read. this coin is about raising awareness for rap music and rap victims. it's not about promoting rap. why would anyone do this? you're a sick person."
13:27:01 pankkake: what
13:27:36 truffles: tupac?
13:27:51 danielpbarron: a stupid altcoin, but i think the OP is trolling
13:27:55 danielpbarron: "yes. a launch. we have a coin, a website, a twitter, facebook, g+ profile, a windows wallet, no real concept and of course no innovation. everything you need for a great coin. this coin has muy potentialones."
13:28:12 pankkake: to the hood!
13:28:29 danielpbarron: made me laugh out loud when I read "rap victims"
13:28:48 MisterE: maybe it was typo
13:29:28 fluffypony: "muy potentialones"
13:30:05 truffles: pantalones
13:30:20 fluffypony: danielpbarron: definitely trolling
13:30:23 fluffypony: I mean, it's called RAPe
13:30:37 fluffypony: "Rap(e)Coin: the rap coin that's not about rape because rape is bad and rap isn't"
13:30:43 kakobrekla: lol
13:30:44 danielpbarron: lolol
13:31:05 kakobrekla: is this one of the Rap-e-ghosts thingy
13:31:37 nubbins`: better get ultimate scammer rg on the line to find out
13:31:42 fluffypony: LOL kakobrekla
13:31:49 nubbins`: ;;rated rg
13:32:52 danielpbarron: what's the deal with trezor? I'm gonna assume it's not as good as cardano will be?
13:33:03 danielpbarron: or should I not even be comparing these things?
13:33:09 kakobrekla: its good to asume its not even close to being the same thing
13:33:13 kakobrekla: assume
13:33:43 fluffypony: if you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME
13:33:49 fluffypony: *du-du-dish*
13:34:58 danielpbarron: i guess what I mean is, ... ultimately this is about securing BTC right? is trezor any good at that?
13:35:40 kakobrekla: cardano does not hold bitcoin private keys
13:35:42 danielpbarron: from what I understand, a lot of the cardano research is getting the right hardware RNG; is trezor up to the same standard?
13:36:34 kakobrekla: as to rng on trezor
13:36:40 kakobrekla: they use deterministic wallets afaik
13:37:04 danielpbarron: does that mean the user programs it?
13:37:59 kakobrekla: you supply the 12 or whatever words to make the seed from which all the future bitcoin key pairs are generated
13:38:44 danielpbarron: if I can type in the 12 words somehow, that's pretty cool
13:39:05 danielpbarron: otherwise, I don't think I can trust that little thing to make a secure enough seed
13:39:07 kakobrekla: its cool until it isnt.
13:39:58 danielpbarron: yeah it makes me suspicious when everyone is hyping it up and it's still on pre-order; sounds a lot like BFL
13:40:18 danielpbarron: "give us BTC today and maybe we'll ship you a product next year"
13:40:37 kakobrekla: thats trezor
13:40:43 danielpbarron: right, that's what I mean
13:40:44 kakobrekla: bfl is "give us btc and fuck you."
13:40:49 danielpbarron: lol
13:41:16 pLambert: has BitVPS buyout been discussed here yet? A big FU to all the shareholders
13:41:35 kakobrekla: what buyout?
13:41:58 pLambert: they are buying back shares based on the past couple dividends
13:42:09 Mats_cd03: 3btc is just a ridiculous cost imo
13:42:25 kakobrekla: dunno havent been following that story
13:42:31 ozbot: [BTC-TC] BitVPS
13:42:32 Mats_cd03: im not stingy, but its unnecessary
13:42:32 danielpbarron: 2 BTC is ridic for an aluminium upgrade, Mats_cd03
13:43:01 danielpbarron: Mats_cd03: I don't mind it costing a lot, but it's insulting to say that using aliminum costs 2 BTC more than using plastic
13:43:12 kakobrekla: >>I invested 700 dollars, and you think I can be content with your forced 20 dollars buy-back?
13:43:12 kakobrekla: I would have been less offended if you had just said "Fuck you, I'm keeping your money."
13:43:13 kakobrekla: --
13:43:14 kakobrekla: lel
13:44:16 fluffypony: what have the dividends been like over the period? I take it not enough to cover the original investment?
13:48:03 danielpbarron: I am the issuer of the #5 ranked asset in counterparty :D
13:49:09 fluffypony: wd danielpbarron
13:49:18 pLambert: They keep saying "we are investing in more hardware, so dividends are low this month", then for the buyback they ignore all the hardware they just bought
13:50:02 danielpbarron: ty, fluffypony; I've got the market cap up to a record breaking 0.52 XCP
13:50:05 pLambert: arij: want to comment on this?
13:50:26 danielpbarron: pLambert: is this a mining company?
13:50:45 pLambert: BitVPS is a hosting company
13:50:50 danielpbarron: oh
13:51:15 pankkake: danielpbarron: is it something real?
13:51:24 pLambert: imagine if Warren Buffet wanted to buy shares of his company back based onthe dividends: $0.00 to you, shareholders
13:51:39 danielpbarron: pankkake: sorta, I backed my asset with a currency from a video game
13:52:11 pankkake: bitvps was profit shares though
13:53:26 danielpbarron: I'm doing it just for fun; trying out the protocol
13:54:49 benkay: thestringpuller: ping
14:17:32 benkay: last bitvps statement was december?
14:34:18 danielpbarron: what's the most influential group of bitcoiners? the devs, the miners, or whatever you call the individuals who own a lot of BTC
14:35:12 benkay: some in this channel would hold it to be this channel
14:35:35 benkay: miners are influential in that txns that adhere to 0.6 rules will probably always get relayed
14:35:44 pankkake: define influential
14:36:04 benkay: devs, unles you're talking about conformal, don't really do much other than implement dirty code into bitcoin-qt
14:36:36 pankkake: transaction/network wise, both miners *and* public nodes. devs, nothing really, as it is with all open source software
14:37:18 danielpbarron: i've been tempted into thinking it was the devs and then the miners that had all the power
14:37:37 danielpbarron: but now I'm leaning to that other group, the group i'm not sure what to call
14:38:06 benkay: "powerful"'s a good start.
14:38:17 danielpbarron: "holders" ?
14:38:26 danielpbarron: venture capitalists? or just capitalists?
14:38:30 benkay: *shrug*
14:38:36 benkay: power comes in many forms.
14:38:47 benkay: sometimes it looks like btc, sometimes it looks like hashes...
14:39:03 danielpbarron: pankkake is right about devs, it's open source stuff
14:39:34 danielpbarron: so then why not the miners? and keep in mind I mean the pool operators, not the guy in his basement
14:39:56 pankkake: pool operators are highly dependent on their users, as it is very easy to migrate
14:40:14 danielpbarron: yep
14:40:29 benkay: everyone forced to more or less play the same way
14:40:32 pankkake: but, at least for now, miners don't really care about pool transaction policies
14:40:47 danielpbarron: they sorta do, or at least, they do when they are also a dev
14:40:53 danielpbarron: i can think of 1 example
14:45:54 benkay: care to share, danielpbarron ?
14:46:14 danielpbarron: what? which dev is also a miner?
14:46:20 danielpbarron: is that not common knowledge?
14:47:18 benkay: oh, i thought you had an example of someone who cares about txn rules
14:47:29 benkay: and like maybe why and some other context
14:47:33 benkay: high hopes :(
14:47:36 danielpbarron: i do
14:48:20 danielpbarron: at the risk of starting the whole argument over again, the context is counterparty / mastercoin and the OP_RETURN controversy
14:48:36 benkay: oh sounds popcorny
14:48:40 danielpbarron: very
14:48:43 benkay: what is this controversy?
14:49:07 danielpbarron: counterparty stores its data in the Blockchain and the devs don't like this
14:49:16 danielpbarron: that's the tl;dr
14:49:24 benkay: what's the controversy over op_return?
14:49:52 pankkake: storage is a cost, and no one's rewarded for storing
14:49:55 danielpbarron: OP_RETURN is a place to store extra data in a transaction
14:50:04 pankkake: that's why transactions should be as small as possible
14:50:11 danielpbarron: ya, what pankkake said
14:50:34 pankkake: I wonder if I can easily make my public nodes stop relaying OP_RETURN :)
14:50:36 danielpbarron: full nodes should get most of the transaction fees, but they get nothing
14:51:01 danielpbarron: anyway my point is, there is controversy over transaction rules, so miners have so influence in that regard
14:51:05 benkay: whoa you can store data in the blockchain without paying?
14:51:14 danielpbarron: benkay: sorta
14:51:26 benkay: do elaborate i'd be much obliged
14:51:33 pankkake: miners get paid, not "storers"
14:51:39 danielpbarron: benkay: you pay, but the payment doesn't go to those actually doing the heavy lifting
14:51:48 benkay: oh
14:51:53 benkay: eh fuck 'em
14:51:57 benkay: blockchain's a nightmare anyways
14:52:07 benkay: miners get paid right?
14:52:10 benkay: that's all i care about.
14:52:13 pankkake: for me, bitcoin is terabytes of bandwith per month - I don't mind as it's almost free, but don't make the madness worse
14:52:17 ozbot: Morgentaler abortion clinic in Fredericton to close - New Brunswick - CBC News
14:52:19 danielpbarron: yeah but they don't need the payment; they don't mine for profit anyway
14:52:33 danielpbarron: hey some good news!
14:52:40 benkay: miners don't mine for profit?
14:52:42 benkay: news to me.
14:52:49 danielpbarron: i believe miners mine for network control
14:53:00 jurov: pankkake meant nonminer nodes
14:53:01 benkay: the state sponsored ones definitely
14:53:28 jurov: i don't mind a terabyte per month,too but 10TB or more... um
14:53:30 danielpbarron: some individuals profit i guess, if they get really cheap electricity and make their own boards
14:53:42 benkay: this is one of those things about bitcoin. staging on the blockchain is just going to get more and more painfully expensive.
14:53:44 benkay: staying*
14:53:51 pankkake: yeah I think I'm capped at 6TB
14:54:04 benkay: either you'll pay for the privilege or you won't.
14:54:06 benkay: end of story.
14:54:08 danielpbarron: benkay: what do you mean "staying on the blockchain?"
14:54:12 Apocalyptic: how so benkay ?
14:54:14 benkay: staying up to date
14:54:27 Apocalyptic: the maximum potential blockchain growth rate is well known
14:54:34 danielpbarron: storage space is trivial
14:54:35 Apocalyptic: thanks for the block size limit
14:54:45 danielpbarron: the issue isn't hard drive space
14:54:47 Apocalyptic: it's just some gigs/year
14:55:07 benkay: we're talking about the mem pool, though, right?
14:55:25 danielpbarron: hard drive space is only an issue to those trying to take a principled stand on not storing content to which they personally object
14:55:53 benkay: txns in flight is the topic, though, correct?
14:55:57 Apocalyptic: <benkay> we're talking about the mem pool, though, right? // you can choose not to query peers for tx data
14:56:05 Apocalyptic: and only get blocks I think
14:56:10 benkay: so do that
14:56:13 danielpbarron: benkay: because OP_RETURN is too small to store counterparty data, they use multi-sig addresses instead, and that uses up memory
14:56:38 benkay: memory where for whom in what part of the process
14:56:45 danielpbarron: full nodes
14:57:04 danielpbarron: full nodes have to keep those addresses in memory as outputs that might get spent in future transactions
14:58:01 benkay: when do they need that? when validating a new block?
14:58:11 danielpbarron: when validating transactions
14:58:17 danielpbarron: full nodes are not miners and miners are not full nodes
14:58:26 Apocalyptic: he knows that
14:58:26 danielpbarron: there might be some overlap
14:58:42 Apocalyptic: but full nodes don't need mempool data for validating blocks
14:58:44 benkay: so take a counterparty transaction
14:58:59 danielpbarron: i might be explaining some technical details incorrectly; i'm not a dev
14:58:59 benkay: has it been confirmed yet?
14:59:14 benkay: let's tell a little story and try to work through this
14:59:26 benkay: start with a counterparty txn. is this thing in flight or has it confirmed?
15:01:25 danielpbarron: i'm on the side of counterparty if I had to choose, i think the decentralized exchange is a great idea
15:02:06 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: oh boo another glbse investor
15:02:17 danielpbarron: i never used that site
15:02:18 benkay: he's underwriting, thestringpuller
15:02:25 thestringpuller: exchanges will always be centralized things, there can be multiple exchanges
15:02:33 benkay: thestringpuller: ping ping ping ping ping
15:02:43 danielpbarron: i think there is room for both centralized and decentralized
15:02:44 thestringpuller: but each excahnge is centralized as you will always trust the issuer
15:02:46 dexX7: benkay: think of "let's create new transaction types and coins, encode the transaction information and store it on the blockchain as pubkeys in multisig transaction outputs"
15:02:52 thestringpuller: you will always have to trust the issuer*
15:03:01 danielpbarron: i get that, thestringpuller
15:03:43 Apocalyptic: oh "decentralized exchange" idea again ?
15:03:48 *: Apocalyptic grabs some popcorn
15:04:11 danielpbarron: s/idea/reality/g
15:05:03 thestringpuller: i feel a decentralized exchange would be littered with scams
15:05:08 danielpbarron: so?
15:05:17 danielpbarron: just like everywhere else
15:05:19 thestringpuller: so you want an exchange for scams?
15:05:30 danielpbarron: you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
15:05:36 benkay: hang on this topic is stupid and boring and you're all stupid and boring for engaging in it
15:05:37 fluffypony: that's actually quite clever
15:05:37 danielpbarron: Bitcoin has enabled scams, so what?
15:05:45 thestringpuller: s.dice was teh closest thing to a scam no mpex...
15:05:55 thestringpuller: every other play exchange has had multiple scams...
15:06:05 danielpbarron: s.dice was a scam?
15:06:08 benkay: i want to know more about these memory requirements imposed by mastercoin
15:06:14 thestringpuller: like the ratio of scam to actual businesses was too damn high
15:06:17 danielpbarron: from what I read, S.DICE was managed very well
15:06:41 danielpbarron: benkay: why mastercoin? counterparty is live and working
15:06:55 benkay: counterparty whatever pedant
15:07:08 benkay: i lose track of all the colored coin implementations
15:08:03 danielpbarron: well, I'm not 100% behind the DEX; I understand the arguments against it, and it's not the end of my world if the devs figure out a way to stop it
15:08:14 kanzure: to be even more pedantic, counterparty isn't a colored coin implementation
15:08:17 kanzure: (don't kill me)
15:08:53 benkay: so you can't possibly be telling me that a full node needs to hold the whole bc in memory to do its job
15:08:53 benkay: is that so?
15:08:58 benkay: <-- does not run nodes
15:08:59 dexX7: the complaint was the amount of unspent outputs/utxo bloat created by those transactions - the argument fails because those unspent outputs are actually spendable and spent frequently
15:09:23 kanzure: the counterparty reference implementation requires a full bitcoin node with -txindex enabled
15:09:36 kanzure: so often this means reindexing the blockchain for nodes that haven't been using -txindex
15:09:50 kanzure: uh i wonder if -txindex is the right parameter. hrm. it's the one about indexing.
15:10:24 kanzure: anywho then the counterparty server sends getrawtransaction messages over rpc to the bitcoin node for every transaction since the burn period began
15:10:32 dexX7: you don't need to hold everything in memory, but there is a database with all unspent outputs. more outputs = delayed lookup
15:10:46 fluffypony: lol
15:11:21 fluffypony: my wife is talking about going to the US at some stage
15:11:22 fluffypony: "we must go to all 50 states. Except Alaska. Alaska isn't going to be nice."
15:11:44 danielpbarron: well i've seen plenty of individuals storing data in other ways, like using the last 4 or 5 decimal places of a balance to encode data
15:12:03 danielpbarron: the US kinda sucks; if you aren't here already, don't come
15:12:17 danielpbarron: not worth the risk of possibly not being allowed to leave
15:12:32 truffles: get items stolen at tsa
15:13:24 danielpbarron: get poisoned with crappy food, drugged water, groped by the "authorities," wealth confiscated because you probably sold drugs to get it
15:13:35 danielpbarron: or you're a terrorist
15:13:49 danielpbarron: honest individuals don't need money; Big Brother feeds them
15:14:08 kakobrekla: ;;ticker
15:14:08 fluffypony: danielpbarron: she meant for holiday, we would never move there
15:14:18 danielpbarron: fluffypony: i know what you meant; don't do it
15:14:28 danielpbarron: for all of the above reasons
15:14:34 truffles: he'll have a great time let him go
15:14:45 danielpbarron: heh ok; just speaking from my own experience
15:14:59 fluffypony: lol
15:14:59 fluffypony: the food is crappy
15:15:02 fluffypony: when I said that on Reddit ages ago I got attacked by apologists
15:15:16 Apocalyptic: dat dive
15:15:18 danielpbarron: there are ways to get non-crappy food but you have to know what you're doing
15:15:49 danielpbarron: and you probably have to avoid some taxes to afford it
15:16:43 fluffypony: danielpbarron: yeah that's what I figured
15:16:43 fluffypony: oh look, welcome to the magical 400.00
15:16:51 danielpbarron: :O
15:17:05 danielpbarron: bitcoinaverage says 389
15:17:07 danielpbarron: damn
15:17:09 taub: its on
15:17:10 fluffypony: ouch
15:17:17 fluffypony: yeah just took a nose dive down
15:17:33 danielpbarron: i guess those peeps who were bugging me to buy the other day are happy now
15:17:34 benkay: no demand :)
15:17:38 benkay: bitcoin's a scam
15:18:56 fluffypony: benkay: I thought it was a ponzi scheme?
15:19:39 kanzure: i'm making a collection of overly-enthusiastic claims about bitcoin
15:19:46 kanzure: i'm open to suggestions for what content to include
15:20:02 fluffypony: kanzure: this is GOOD news!
15:20:08 kanzure: i want the stuff that will still found funny even if bitcoin does eat up the world
15:20:14 kanzure: like this one: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/fanaticism/if-i-was-chairman-of-the-fed.yaml
15:20:49 danielpbarron: lol
15:21:09 danielpbarron: "If I was Chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve, the most powerful central bank in the world, I would be buying bitcoin like mad."
15:21:18 danielpbarron: LIKE MAD, YO
15:21:50 ozbot: Patrick Brazeau, suspended senator, arrested in Gatineau - Ottawa - CBC News
15:21:52 kanzure: personally i think all bitcointalk.org posts should start with "Yo,"
15:21:59 danielpbarron: haha i've probably been on that train, looks like MTA
15:22:15 nubbins`: from law-school dropout to canadian senator to strip club manager
15:22:22 nubbins`: GREAT SENATE PICK, HARPER
15:22:32 kanzure: what's wrong with running a strip club?
15:22:41 nubbins`: nothing
15:23:02 kanzure: oh i see, i should have asked what's wrong with the senate =)
15:23:07 nubbins`: EVERYTHING
15:23:47 nubbins`: seriously. the senate. highest judicial body in the country. guy gets fired for being a shitbag, and the best job he can scrounge together after that is putting together the weekly schedule at the fuckin Bare Fax
15:24:06 nubbins`: almost makes you think he shouldn't have been appointed to the senate in the first place
15:24:13 danielpbarron: "The banks would be saved because people would be borrowing as much money as possible in order to buy bitcoin." <-- ...
15:24:15 thestringpuller: bet closed
15:24:27 thestringpuller: ;;ticker
15:24:29 kanzure: danielpbarron: this is the sort of hyper-fanatacism that i am seeking
15:24:59 danielpbarron: one-of-a-kind stupidity there
15:29:58 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
16:00:13 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 10000
16:00:35 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 25000
16:00:43 ThickAsThieves: lol
16:00:53 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 15000
16:01:01 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 20000
16:01:21 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 22500
16:01:35 ThickAsThieves: ;;market buy 23500
16:03:02 ThickAsThieves: so about 24k coins on the market
16:03:34 ozbot: Weak Chinese Trade Data Cloud Growth Hopes - WSJ.com
16:04:36 dvsdude: Stephen Colbert will succeed David Letterman as host of 'The Late Show'
16:05:10 ThickAsThieves: that works
16:05:16 ThickAsThieves: letterman is boring as shit
16:05:39 ThickAsThieves: too bad theyll suck the sould out of colbert
16:06:31 benkay: colbert and stewart's shows are utterly inane
16:10:11 MisterE: ;;ticker --market all
16:39:05 BingoBoingo: !t h neobeeq
16:44:12 benkay: !t h rent
16:44:25 benkay: how long does this one go for?
16:45:02 pLambert: until the end of the month, I think
16:51:23 benkay: ;;cal 17.00250000/2267
16:51:29 benkay: ;;calc 17.00250000/2267
17:13:48 keonne: keonne: #bitcoin-assets is like a second job << first job for most people here. i see that, at least im honest, maybe one day i will be able to afford the trading platform fee and have my mind warped enough to warrant a spot in the full time club
17:14:22 keonne: er meant to tab mircea
17:15:26 nubbins`: what in the fuck is a job
17:16:17 keonne: honestly my job doesnt feel like a job, so i guess im lucky there
17:16:24 keonne: also h8 at nubbins`
17:16:40 nubbins`: don't h8, m8
17:16:54 keonne: since in my mind hes lounging in a pool flush with btc and pussy in the virgin islands
17:17:04 keonne: dont ruin the image, i want to be you
17:17:09 truffles: haha
17:17:24 truffles: cept he lives in frozen canada :D
17:17:39 keonne: oh dear
17:17:53 keonne: but aye on the pools of btc and pussy
17:19:23 truffles: pussy is so overrated anus is where its at
17:20:27 dignork: mircea_popescu, it's just a sensible default, which can be changed via weechat.look.paste_max_lines, same idea is implemented in some unixes by aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i', just a default
17:21:06 nubbins`: it's too cold for backyard pools here
17:22:25 keonne: does anyone use the blockchain android wallet
17:22:42 nubbins`: android is for poor people
17:23:02 keonne: lol
17:23:05 truffles: dam i missed that memo
17:23:24 benkay: phones are for wage slaves
17:23:31 fluffypony: nubbins`: so you're a Windows Phone user, then?
17:23:36 ozbot: 'Android is for poor people'
17:23:54 keonne: lol such helpful
17:23:56 ozbot: Android Is Popular Because It's Cheap, Not Because It's Good
17:24:22 keonne: gizmodo is popular because it's cheap, not because it's good
17:24:34 ozbot: Android handsets a poor man's iPhone, research claims | News | PC Pro
17:24:38 ozbot: Rich People Like iPhones, Poor People Like Android – The Interrobang
17:24:41 fluffypony: gizmodo is popular? I stopped reading there a long time ago
17:24:45 truffles: so Iphones are popular cuz theyre shiny?
17:24:50 keonne: how do you have all these on hand nubbins`
17:24:53 benkay: such science
17:24:55 nubbins`: i don't
17:25:03 nubbins`: i just googled "android is for poor people"
17:25:06 keonne: lol
17:25:18 keonne: this is why you get all the pussy and btc
17:25:23 keonne: and im a simple wage slave
17:25:29 nubbins`: not really
17:26:10 nubbins`: smartphones are for fucking losers in general
17:26:16 keonne: asciilifeform: what was the name of that soviet cartoon you mentioned earlier
17:26:25 nubbins`: REAL MEN CHECK THEIR TELEPHONES SEVERAL TIMES AN HOUR
17:26:32 truffles: nubbins` what do u use?
17:26:42 nubbins`: IPHONE
17:26:46 nubbins`: i mean, iphone
17:26:48 nubbins`: heh
17:26:51 keonne: iPhone
17:26:52 truffles: oh ok
17:27:12 truffles: im surprised cuz i read they dont withstand cold temps
17:27:31 fluffypony: nubbins`: want a wooden case for it? we have a bunch as gifts, but most of our customers are Android users, and the guy that makes them doesn't make Android cases
17:27:32 nubbins`: shrug. i keep my phone in my pocket, not my mailbox
17:27:59 nubbins`: fluffypony, i don't use cases, but tyvm
17:28:05 fluffypony: np
17:28:38 keonne: cases are for poor people according to nubbins`
17:28:42 fluffypony: lol
17:28:48 nubbins`: now you're putting words in my mouth
17:28:55 nubbins`: cases are for clumsy people
17:28:56 keonne: guilty
17:29:19 keonne: but i also did make up a life story for you
17:29:23 nubbins`: if you drop your $500 phone so often that you need to put it in a case, maybe you shouldn't have one
17:29:53 truffles: im pretty rough i need a case
17:30:05 keonne: my phone was $200
17:30:13 jurov: orly? mahogany smartphone box?
17:30:18 nubbins`: consider the statement suitably modified
17:30:26 keonne: still stands
17:30:36 truffles: 200 sounds so modest dam!
17:30:48 nubbins`: keonne: but was it subsidized?
17:30:50 keonne: nexus 5
17:30:52 keonne: no
17:30:56 *: nubbins` claps
17:30:59 keonne: unlocked off contract
17:32:12 keonne: no, subsidized phones are for poor people
17:32:28 keonne: and for people who will probably be perpetually poor
17:32:36 jurov: http://www.magazinehive.com/2013/08/iphone-4-and-iphone-4s-cases/ grep for bamboo or mahogany
17:32:36 ozbot: 40+ Beautiful iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S Cases for Your Smartphone
17:32:37 keonne: because it's a really bad deal
17:32:54 nubbins`: no doubt you've got some math to back that up
17:33:24 fluffypony: those are the cases we have
17:33:30 fluffypony: wood is pretty
17:33:35 nubbins`: it is indeed
17:33:36 keonne: thats nice fluffypony
17:33:38 nubbins`: engraving kinda ruins it
17:33:41 truffles: ppl actually back things up with scientific data itc? pfff
17:33:42 fluffypony: nubbins`: hush
17:33:50 fluffypony: :-P
17:33:50 nubbins`: might as well put a coca-cola logo on there
17:34:09 nubbins`: truffles: who said anything about scientific? napkin scribbles would do
17:34:21 truffles: might as well not
17:34:22 truffles: imo
17:34:52 nubbins`: suppose you save $500 by getting a subsidy. at the end of your two-year contract, you own your phone
17:34:57 truffles: that baseball case looks cute
17:35:05 keonne: well lets see, $500 phone you get for $250 because you sign a 2 year contract paying ~60-80 a month.
17:35:07 nubbins`: or you spend the extra $500, and two years later, you own your phone
17:35:15 nubbins`: what's the difference?
17:35:50 keonne: the difference is poor people shouldnt eb buying 500 dollar phones
17:36:01 truffles: yep
17:36:09 nubbins`: well, that certainly answers a different question
17:36:13 nubbins`: how about the one i asked :D
17:36:14 truffles: im gonna aim for that 200 next phone!
17:36:14 keonne: sorry i keep going in and out of cell signal
17:36:25 nubbins`: shoulda bought an iphone i guess
17:36:33 keonne: or not be on a train going into tunnels
17:36:43 nubbins`: sure
17:36:45 nubbins`: either way.
17:36:58 nubbins`: explain to me how buying the phone outright is a better deal in the long run
17:37:11 keonne: depends on the price of the phone
17:37:24 nubbins`: let's say a new iphone
17:37:33 jurov: nubbins`: depends on if you're poor :DDDDD
17:37:33 nubbins`: $700 straight-up or $200 on a two-year contract
17:37:36 keonne: how much are those?
17:37:42 keonne: ah ok
17:37:53 keonne: thats insane..... first of all
17:38:09 daybyter: got my new smartphone today.
17:38:10 keonne: how much is the contract per month?
17:38:26 daybyter: pomp w88 Euro 105,- plus shipping.
17:38:33 TomServo: nubbins`: I think it depends on how much you value being able to switch carriers on a whim.
17:38:42 nubbins`: TomServo: $0
17:38:47 keonne: i mean i havent had a contract in 3 years
17:38:55 nubbins`: keonne: well, that depends heavily on how good you are at bargaining
17:39:10 keonne: and i have unlimited 4g data in both the US and Europe
17:39:11 TomServo: nubbins`: I'm just saying, that is what makes it a "better deal" to some people.
17:39:11 nubbins`: which (sorry to ruin the surprise) was the crux of my argument
17:39:18 keonne: for £15 pay as you go a month
17:39:51 nubbins`: canada is relatively expensive for cell service
17:39:57 nubbins`: i pay, i think, $50/mo
17:40:32 keonne: its all highly situational
17:40:35 nubbins`: yep
17:40:39 keonne: i remmeber not even being able to get a sim card in canada
17:40:52 keonne: without a canadian ID
17:40:54 nubbins`: all different now, LTE nationwide
17:40:58 nubbins`: ah, without an id
17:41:03 nubbins`: not sure about that
17:41:08 keonne: in UK i go to the corner shop
17:41:20 keonne: and i can buyt as many sim cards as I want for£1 each
17:41:39 nubbins`: neat
17:41:58 nubbins`: TomServo: fair enough, but worth an extra $500?
17:42:05 daybyter: any android coders here, who also do java?
17:42:10 nubbins`: ostensibly you're changing providers to get a better rate
17:42:38 nubbins`: to make it worth $500, you'd need to save ~$21/mo by switching providers
17:43:00 nubbins`: it could be argued that you just picked the wrong provider to start with
17:43:09 keonne: daybyter: not being snarky but dont all android devs have to know java? i thought that was part of the deal.
17:43:24 fluffypony: keonne: I was about to say the same thing
17:43:25 daybyter: I mean android and desktop-java.
17:43:26 fluffypony: say/ask
17:43:29 fluffypony: ah ok
17:43:46 daybyter: I have a lib that should run on desktop and android.
17:44:04 daybyter: no I wonder how to compile it best.
17:44:16 daybyter: add android.jar to the required libs?
17:44:25 daybyter: use conditional compiling?
17:44:28 nubbins`: ^
17:45:00 bounce: write it for z-machine
17:45:51 daybyter: I used antenna back in the days of j2me projects.
17:46:44 nubbins`: i googled everything back in the days of writing code ;D
17:46:53 nubbins`: why reinvent the wheel!
17:47:21 daybyter: google had no good solution available?
17:47:41 daybyter: maybe I'm just the first one who had this idea? :-)
17:47:44 nubbins`: if we were fencing, i'd say touche
17:49:06 keonne: bloody tunnels
17:49:31 truffles: is that code for sex?
17:49:36 nubbins`: HEH.
17:49:45 keonne: haha
17:49:48 fluffypony: yay! sex!
17:49:51 nubbins`: i want to enter your bloody tunnel
17:50:05 nubbins`: i should try this on my wife when she gets home
17:50:19 truffles: she likes red so go for it
17:50:22 keonne: let us know how that goes
17:50:52 nubbins`: my money is on a chuckle
17:52:15 keonne: gents i am off
17:52:25 keonne: as always its been a pleasure
17:52:32 daybyter: cul!
17:55:50 nubbins`: ;;ticker
17:56:07 nubbins`: oddly, no suicide hotline phone number on reddit
17:56:48 ozbot: Filantropica pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
17:59:52 fluffypony: keonne: you said you were off!
18:00:13 keonne: i know
18:00:17 keonne: train is a bit delayed
18:00:20 fluffypony: ah ok
18:00:43 daybyter: keonne: you're an android coder?
18:00:51 keonne: not at all daybyter
18:01:08 daybyter: you're an android designer?
18:01:19 keonne: The only coding I do is a very hobbyist hack job at python
18:01:38 keonne: im a designer in general, focusing on UI, and I do a lot of android apps
18:01:38 daybyter: oh...ok...
18:01:51 nubbins`: it'll be 14 months on sunday since i gave up programming
18:01:55 daybyter: hmmh...that sounds interesting!
18:02:12 daybyter: I want to create an android app and look for help with the UI.
18:02:20 keonne: current i am redoing the blockchain android wallet, which is why i as asking earlier if anyone used it
18:02:38 daybyter: interested in a trading app?
18:02:41 fluffypony: nubbins`: how are you handling it?
18:02:48 keonne: and if they wanted to bitch at me their least favourite things
18:03:09 keonne: nubbins`: congrats :)
18:03:17 nubbins`: fluffypony, never been happier
18:03:27 mike_c: eulorum is dead. long live eulorum.
18:03:33 nubbins`: woo
18:03:36 mike_c: new server, new install
18:03:39 mike_c: copied shit over
18:03:41 *: nubbins` high fives mike
18:03:47 daybyter: I write java trading code.
18:03:52 mike_c: nubbins, i copied over your password hash so you should be able to login
18:03:57 daybyter: and currently port some stuff to android.
18:04:03 nubbins`: i was briefly excited when i saw the "recent changes" page until i took a closer look :D
18:04:04 nubbins`: tyvm
18:04:17 nubbins`: keonne: thanks :D
18:04:21 daybyter: looking for someone to make a pretty app.
18:05:05 benkay`: what's your budget?
18:05:13 benkay`: daybyter: what's your budget?
18:05:32 daybyter: I thought about a collab.
18:05:53 daybyter: maybe share the profit, if the app could be sold.
18:06:16 keonne: daybyter: sorry man, i really dont have the time
18:06:23 benkay`: what's the app?
18:06:28 keonne: plus you would hate working with me
18:06:38 daybyter: tradebot
18:06:54 daybyter: maybe manual trading, but I wanted to start as simple as possible.
18:07:13 benkay`: and you don't have the budget to pay for its production?
18:07:14 daybyter: I already got most of the stuff running on desktop.
18:07:20 keonne: i'm incredibly anal when it comes to design, and more engineers go crazy working with me
18:07:24 keonne: plus im expensive
18:08:07 mircea_popescu: dignork i know i know, jus' being an hardass spuriously.
18:08:24 daybyter: but I want to use a strategy that is a lot more simple.
18:09:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves dvsdude benkay` what the shit, letterman was supposed to be a comic neh ? colbert is now funny ?
18:09:35 benkay`: colbert's never been funny.
18:10:22 daybyter: benkay`: mail me, if you are interested.
18:11:46 thestringpuller: ;;ticker
18:13:51 keonne: ok now im leaving for real
18:14:05 daybyter: cu!
18:15:13 nubbins`: heh
18:15:23 nubbins`: educating -otc on the perils of referring to cash-in-mail as CIM
18:15:27 benkay`: daybyter: not really interested.
18:15:49 daybyter: ok.
18:15:55 daybyter: thanks for your answer.
18:16:06 truff1es: awww
18:16:23 nubbins`: "willing to do CIM" etc
18:16:24 nubbins`: my sides
18:17:00 mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah it wasn't working b4 was it ?
18:17:39 mike_c: it was basically under assault from spam bots
18:18:02 mike_c: i didn't realize what a honeypot mediawiki is.
18:18:05 nubbins`: lots of pages about buying discount shoes
18:18:24 mircea_popescu: nubbins` what perils be those ?
18:18:33 mike_c: but the new cat photos captcha should prevent that.
18:18:42 nubbins`: mircea_popescu basically just drawing snickers from dirtbags like me
18:18:44 nubbins`: ;;ud cim
18:18:45 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: cim
18:18:54 mircea_popescu: oh oh
18:19:10 nubbins`: oddly, nobody looking for just COF
18:19:22 mircea_popescu: cash on forehead ?
18:19:28 nubbins`: ;;ud cof
18:19:29 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: C.O.F.
18:19:31 nubbins`: close enough ;D
18:19:51 benkay`: coin on, fellow.
18:19:55 nubbins`: heh
18:22:34 mircea_popescu: is bbbj like a blowjob with three girls ?
18:23:52 mircea_popescu: http://media.realitatea.ro/multimedia/image/201310/w728/taranul_83111800.jpg << cash on forehead. fo reals.
18:23:55 truff1es: why wouldnt u think doods
18:28:10 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
18:28:27 benkay`: 450 -> 398
18:28:31 mircea_popescu: srsly
18:28:44 benkay`: "why is it crashing?"
18:28:56 mircea_popescu: "because the exchanges are less and less relevant" ?
18:29:22 asciilifeform: we might be witnessing a bifurcation a la 'bezzle dollar'
18:29:42 asciilifeform: (or this happened ages ago, and i'm just the last one to notice)
18:29:56 mircea_popescu: they've painted themselves in a corner, basically. if all you wanna do is buy 20 bucks wortha btc to "have some", no way in fuck do you go through all the caudine forkland of "send us a pic with you holding a seal". odds are you don't even have a phone.
18:29:56 benkay`: there is a bit of a discount for magical bitcoins
18:30:15 mircea_popescu: if you want 20k worth of btc, no fucking way you'll take that level of service. just find an escort that does COF CIM and BTC
18:30:25 fluffypony: CIM
18:30:30 mircea_popescu: so i guess the scammers get a whole new market now.
18:30:30 fluffypony: :-P
18:30:31 asciilifeform: at this point, even the most threadbare engineer is probably just buying coin from his coworkers
18:30:52 fluffypony: I have a lot of people I know that prefer to buy from me instead of buying on the local exchange
18:30:58 fluffypony: even though I keep telling them to
18:31:04 fluffypony: because it's annoying
18:31:05 mircea_popescu: fuck the local exchange.
18:31:12 mircea_popescu: the future belongs to otc trades of btc.
18:31:33 mircea_popescu: the various fiat jurisdictions had ~5 years to get their shit together and suck our cock enough to acquire this revenue stream.
18:31:34 mircea_popescu: they have failed.
18:31:35 asciilifeform: wonder at what point exchanges will survive primarily on payola from whoever they are stoolies for, rather than commissions
18:31:41 mircea_popescu: no btc/fiat exchangesd for them. herp.
18:31:50 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: we have a community here of < 500 people actively interested in Bitcoin, not just peripherally
18:31:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the point of 2014.
18:31:55 mircea_popescu: fluffypony cool.
18:32:04 fluffypony: it's tiny
18:32:12 mircea_popescu: depends who they are.
18:32:20 fluffypony: true
18:32:21 mircea_popescu: 500 is too many for spartans.
18:32:31 taub: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z73tt8mgr6tndzy/FooledByRandomness.pdf cool book i'm reading right now
18:32:49 fluffypony: unfortunately the majority of them are kinda-nerdy-oh-look-here-I-can-get-rich
18:33:07 dignork: mircea_popescu, you said before that bitcoin-otc is irrelevant
18:33:16 truff1es: $$$$
18:33:27 fluffypony: dollah dollah billz, ya'll
18:33:42 bounce: otc is fun and fluffy and lovable and full of scammers
18:33:44 truff1es: ppl can change their minds
18:34:55 mircea_popescu: dignork otc as a concept. "over the counter"
18:35:06 mircea_popescu: as opposed to "in an 'organised' ie regulated market"
18:35:50 dignork: mircea_popescu, sure, but so far bitcoin-otc based on WOT is the closest to OTC that I've seen so far
18:35:52 mircea_popescu: bitcoin-otc was last i checked run mostly by dorks, and so consequently populated mostly by dorks
18:36:49 mircea_popescu: dignork i dunno, imo all of irc and a lot more is otc in this sense.
18:37:42 mircea_popescu: fluffypony sure, except we've seen it three times already : the people who are butthurt during upswings because they were left out still don't buy during downswings because now it's more like "Haha! it's dead!"
18:38:00 mircea_popescu: mental issuez
18:38:03 fluffypony: that is VERY true
18:38:16 fluffypony: every time it's tanked I've bought on the downswing
18:38:53 ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June
18:38:54 mircea_popescu: this is a sad puppy
18:39:14 fluffypony: what is annoying is when the media talks about Bitcoin's "surprising resiliance despite being declared dead"
18:39:15 fluffypony: like wtf
18:39:26 fluffypony: just because someone says its dead doesn't automagically make it so
18:39:44 ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June
18:39:59 benkay: they imagine their imagination matters, fluffypony .
18:40:01 mjr_: what up everyone
18:40:06 benkay: oh look who it is
18:40:09 mjr_: hahaha
18:40:11 benkay: mr constantly dropping connections
18:40:16 mjr_: i know :(
18:40:24 benkay: still going to burning man with the shreminal?
18:40:29 mjr_: not sure...
18:40:37 benkay: 2 things i'm bummed about missing this year
18:40:38 mircea_popescu: fluffypony well yeah, it's sort-of like putin's surprising resilience in spite of being declared crazy.
18:40:41 mjr_: i was supposed to go hang out with him while i was in nyc
18:40:42 benkay: bm and mp
18:40:53 mircea_popescu: teh media has serious issues coming to some sort of representation of its own irrelevance.
18:41:02 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: or Robert Mugabe's surprising resilience despite him probably being dead
18:41:06 mjr_: am I safe in assuming that everyone here thinks trying to change the bitcoin symbol is stupid and a waste of time?
18:41:07 mircea_popescu: mjr_ dude wtf was with all those parts.
18:41:27 mjr_: when was that? I'm not sure if my laptop was even open...
18:41:28 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu ocd
18:41:37 benkay: i advocate we abandon the btc symbol all together and just use a capital b
18:41:40 benkay: 200B
18:41:42 mjr_: what up kakobrekla
18:41:47 kakobrekla: heya
18:41:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-04-2014#609470
18:42:03 mjr_: basically i think i slam dunked the argument against symbol change
18:42:03 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
18:42:03 mircea_popescu: mjr_ ^
18:42:31 mjr_: phones can currently type the bitcoin symbol...i don't even know how you would convince apple or motorola to add a keyboard
18:42:40 mjr_: or what keyboard it should be under
18:42:58 mircea_popescu: benkay i never used no dumbass symbol.
18:42:58 kakobrekla: you comming to ro or what?
18:43:01 benkay: bitcoin advocacy, mjr_ ?
18:43:12 mjr_: but the amount of changes that using the proposed symbol would cost dwarf any benefit
18:43:21 benkay: no symbol.
18:43:27 fluffypony: benkay: what about a backwards Euro symbol, then it looks kinda like a monkey butt
18:43:29 mjr_: i have to try and get people to shut the fuck up and open their eyes and see how the world works
18:43:38 benkay: no man it's a waste of time
18:43:42 benkay: fuck retards get paper
18:43:45 mjr_: good point
18:44:02 mircea_popescu: how about we just use $
18:44:08 mircea_popescu: not like the usd will survive anyway.
18:44:20 bounce: and let people think it's the new USD?
18:44:23 mircea_popescu: and afair they stole it off the mexicans on the same grounds.
18:44:42 bounce: USB, the new USD
18:44:45 benkay: too early
18:44:46 mjr_: well...there are 30 other countries using $
18:44:51 mjr_: many more using "dollar"
18:44:53 mircea_popescu: bounce no moar like BD, the new USD
18:45:10 mircea_popescu: mjr_ exactly. argentina prices everything in "dollars", there's 3 of them
18:45:12 mircea_popescu: at least.
18:45:33 mjr_: which was my point...zeroblock told me on twitter "amateur hour is over"...i was like so canada, australia, mexico, etc are still in amateur hour...
18:45:48 mjr_: in the real world, symbols are mapped onto many currencies
18:45:54 mircea_popescu: who is zeroblock and what makes him think he can talk about amateur hour lol
18:45:58 mjr_: hahahaha
18:46:17 mircea_popescu: mp, lord of the fundamental questions.
18:46:21 mjr_: just part of the group of people who think that they understand the standards committees and how the real world works
18:46:26 mjr_: similar to the whole "XBT" thing
18:46:42 mjr_: which is the same issue...you don't pick a name and then ISO standardizes
18:46:51 mircea_popescu: we should have a drama department
18:46:52 mjr_: ISO will tell you what the official name is, and then you adopt it
18:46:54 mircea_popescu: like every highschool.
18:46:56 mjr_: yep
18:47:06 mircea_popescu: then the fat chicks can go and pretend like they're acting there after school
18:47:11 mjr_: its good to be chatting, and btw, it is very fun seeing people talk about you when you are not htere
18:47:18 mjr_: its nice
18:47:24 mjr_: to see yourself in the mirror
18:47:27 mircea_popescu: well they were talking about how much you piss them off
18:47:29 mjr_: and I think I will start blogging more
18:47:31 mjr_: hehehe
18:47:41 mjr_: maybe i didn't read that far down
18:47:52 mjr_: why not just ignore me?
18:48:07 benkay: ey lookit what princessnell's been up to: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2423461
18:48:12 mjr_: as in the IRC command, not attention wise
18:48:24 mircea_popescu: not sure.
18:48:40 mircea_popescu: benkay chick writing a paper about us ?!
18:49:19 benkay: oh indeed.
18:49:36 benkay: oh it's great
18:49:47 mircea_popescu: pastebin that shit
18:49:48 mircea_popescu: ssrn bs
18:49:51 bounce: "why not just ignore all the spam in your inbox?" "why not just ignore that DDoS coming in?" -- such sensible questions.
18:50:00 mircea_popescu: bounce he's new.
18:50:11 benkay: it has footnotes and stuff that won't survive so well
18:50:17 bounce: shh. lemme admire the sensibility a bit more.
18:50:31 mircea_popescu: kk
18:50:32 ozbot: Bitcoin Financial Regulation: Securities, Derivatives, Prediction Markets, & Gambling by Jerry Brit
18:51:13 fluffypony: also known as BFR:SDPMG
18:51:19 fluffypony: bJB
18:51:29 bounce: SSRN, wasn't that a class of antidepressants?
18:52:11 akstunt600: Maybe bitcoin really needs to get cracked down on for it to thrive the way we want
18:52:31 akstunt600: the gen y kids the ones that need the most arent even using it yet really
18:52:46 akstunt600: bounce, tHAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT
18:52:50 akstunt600: oops caps
18:53:24 danielpbarron: bitcoin doesn't get "cracked down on;" it does the cracking
18:53:27 mircea_popescu: bounce nah a social studies bs
18:53:33 akstunt600: hhahaha
18:53:44 mircea_popescu: akstunt600 an' who might you be ?
18:54:06 bounce: "wordy stuff that makes you need antidepressants", right ho.
18:54:15 akstunt600: Just a fellow bitcoin persons
18:57:10 benkay: Accordingly, to the extent a contract delivers bitcoins at a date after the sale
18:57:10 benkay: (and not their cash equivalent), and is being used by a party to manage price
18:57:10 benkay: risk, it would likely be considered a forward and be excluded from the
18:57:13 benkay: CEA.
18:57:22 benkay: bold claim.
18:57:47 fluffypony: I don't see any <em> tags?
18:57:50 benkay: i'd like to meet the person who's willing to test that 'likely' in the states, or finance the establishment of caselaw.
18:59:35 benkay: options on pg 20
19:00:29 mircea_popescu: ;;google pg 20
19:02:50 benkay: "bitcoinica valued expediency and experimentation over postponement and risk-aversion"
19:03:05 benkay: gotta read more of this later
19:03:08 benkay: vms need hacking
19:03:20 mircea_popescu: oh really ? and i thought it simply valued pretense and pretending over competence or obeying your betters.
19:03:36 mircea_popescu: poor phantomcircuit still imagines his brain works, i wager.
19:06:00 mircea_popescu: pretty cool.
19:07:42 fluffypony: lol
19:08:21 goonsamchi: best to have diverse opinions, instead of a nation of sheep all taking the scientists' word for it, never considering the possibility that someone could be wrong
19:09:23 chetty: most people are wrong,most of the time
19:09:29 mircea_popescu: goonsamchi it's not a good idea to have "opinions" on matters you have not the authority to have opinions on.
19:10:01 *: bounce mentions david nutt
19:10:04 mircea_popescu: last thing we need is every fuckwit social sciences major having opinions about how silicon valley start-ups should be run and so forth
19:10:26 ozbot: Why medical studies often go wrong | CTV News
19:11:08 ozbot: Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science - David H. Freedman - The Atlantic
19:11:27 mircea_popescu: sooo ?
19:11:51 fluffypony: goonsamchi: so you'd prefer they take their medical advice from a TV personality?
19:12:36 goonsamchi: no, i think people should be allowed to control their own lives
19:12:47 goonsamchi: i believe in individual liberty and the right for people to be wrong
19:13:32 mircea_popescu: goonsamchi there's a difference between controlling your own life and having opinions tho.
19:13:44 goonsamchi: yes, and people should have both
19:13:49 mircea_popescu: nobody is disputing the woman's right to be as fucking wrong as she possibly can get away with.
19:13:55 truff1es: prob diff in murrca than rest of world
19:14:09 mircea_popescu: but i am outright denying her the right to air dumbassery under the guise that "she's entitled to an opinion"
19:14:10 mircea_popescu: she is not.
19:14:21 goonsamchi: not allowing people to be incorrect just leads to a monoculture of sheep who all think the same. even if they're right, there's still a lack of diversity
19:14:33 mircea_popescu: now how do you know that ?
19:14:42 truff1es: thats what this room would become haha
19:14:51 mircea_popescu: seems to me allowing fuckwits to have "opinions" has turned the us of a into a monoculture of sheep who all think the same.
19:15:05 mircea_popescu: had these same fuckwits been beaten to shit for daring to open their mouths when their teachers were speaking,
19:15:16 mircea_popescu: we'd perhaps have had something like 58 goethes coming out of there, this year alone.
19:15:17 truff1es: 0.0
19:15:44 mircea_popescu: at least if historical data is anything to go by.
19:15:55 fluffypony: goonsamchi: where do you draw the line? if a wildly popular personality says that everyone should kill themselves, and then a bunch of people do, should the person who expressed their "opinion" be entitled to it?
19:16:01 truff1es: beat some sense into them, thats it!
19:16:05 mircea_popescu: fluffypony definitely.
19:16:26 mircea_popescu: whoa this is going to be a good argument, i disagree with everyone.
19:16:26 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: population control?
19:16:29 fluffypony: :-P
19:16:35 fluffypony: meh
19:16:37 goonsamchi: you should be allowed to do anything you want unless it directly infringes on the rights of others.
19:16:40 mircea_popescu: no, but the discussion is metaphisics, and being listened to qualifies him to speak./
19:16:56 mircea_popescu: goonsamchi so your eating infringes on the rights of others, stop eating.
19:17:01 chetty: well there is a difference between having an opinon, and expressing it
19:17:02 goonsamchi: it does not.
19:17:07 mircea_popescu: how convenient.
19:17:34 mircea_popescu: of course it does. fucking world is constructed so your existence is built out of the death of your siblings.
19:17:38 mircea_popescu: thats how things work.
19:17:48 fluffypony: goonsamchi: there are starving people in Africa that would disagree
19:18:08 mircea_popescu: this is nothing less than the point of existence : for you to drive lesser versions out of existence, or for them to drive oyu.
19:18:54 goonsamchi: lol. my not eating would not affect the people in africa
19:19:02 mircea_popescu: how convenient #2.
19:19:10 benkay: mircea_popescu: the teachers'd need to be worth attending to.
19:19:17 mircea_popescu: benkay sure.
19:19:29 mircea_popescu: benkay im sure all of goethe's teachers were all supercool and worthy dudes.
19:19:43 mircea_popescu: not according to him, but what the fuck does he know.
19:19:52 chetty: you would listen to a 'teacher' that wasn't worth it?
19:20:10 mircea_popescu: problem is how the fuck would you distinguish.
19:20:23 mircea_popescu: idiots on the forum also think they know better. the reason they think so is because they don't know what they don't know
19:20:29 mircea_popescu: and on the basis of what they know, aka 0, they're right.
19:20:43 chetty: the best ones are the scariest!
19:21:22 fluffypony: but you can't even quantify "stuff you don't know"
19:21:25 truff1es: goonsamchi u make good points, id like to read more ur views on this
19:21:27 mircea_popescu: exactly.
19:21:37 chetty: if it hurts, you are learning something
19:21:40 truff1es: just wait til the sillyness washes away
19:22:03 thestringpuller: chetty if you start doing things right and realize you were once wrong you are also learning things :)
19:22:36 chetty: thestringpuller, and that hurts too
19:22:42 thestringpuller: most people seem to do things wrong, get told so, ignor as MP points out, then they run head first into concrete and complain about how they have brain damage
19:23:10 truff1es: told by whom?
19:23:26 fluffypony: although making mistakes *and learning from them* should be encouraged, no?
19:23:37 thestringpuller: you shouldn't make mistakes with other peoples money
19:23:40 thestringpuller: fucking use testnet
19:24:11 fluffypony: oh I agree with that
19:24:15 fluffypony: I was talking in generalisations
19:24:17 thestringpuller: no experimenting wiht production services, fucking get managers and shit. perhaps it's about time for another tally of the BTC losses due to scams and icompetence
19:24:17 chetty: fluffypony, that is I think, the definition of learning
19:25:18 mircea_popescu: fluffypony making mistakes should be encouraged in a narrow field : that where we don't know what the mistakes are. in the fields where we already know, they should not be.
19:25:19 chetty: bitcoins don't get lost (mostly) just transfered
19:25:33 mircea_popescu: such as, putting your hand in the flame may in principle do all sorts of cool things, like charge your phone battery
19:25:40 fluffypony: lol
19:25:41 mircea_popescu: but it won't. so don't learn from fucking experience.
19:25:47 fluffypony: yeah I use the "stove is hot" analogy often
19:25:55 fluffypony: but you end up with a burnt hand afterwards
19:26:29 truff1es: if u were tough enough it wouldnt matter!
19:26:51 mircea_popescu: <truff1es> just wait til the sillyness washes away << funny how on the spot this guy is. since forever the strategy of the mentally defective has been, just wait until the cool people get exhausted, and try to rebuild socialism then!
19:27:25 truff1es: says the person who wants to beat people to submission
19:27:27 mircea_popescu: the epic resilience of stupidity.
19:34:35 fluffypony: I think testnet is an under-utilised feature
19:34:46 robwhiz22: Good evening.
19:35:12 mircea_popescu: the usg moving into cattle rustling
19:35:36 robwhiz22: Hi, mircea_popescu
19:35:47 chetty: shades of Waco??
19:37:13 robwhiz22: You kind of disappeared the other day. I'm hoping you had a chance to read what I'd written you earlier. If so could you tell me a decision please?
19:38:03 robwhiz22: If you need any more information, feel free to ask.
19:41:00 fluffypony: robwhiz22: you never emailed me:(
19:41:04 *: fluffypony feels left out
19:42:25 TomServo: robwhiz22: You're the "I can fix the Cardano" guy right?
19:42:59 fluffypony: TomServo: yes
19:43:03 asciilifeform: 'fix' in the 'veterinary' sense of the word.
19:43:17 fluffypony: for the low, low price of 10 BTC
19:43:17 fluffypony: monthly
19:43:19 fluffypony: with interest
19:43:20 TomServo: Sorry, I should've also put fix in quotes.
19:49:15 ozbot: Anonymous derpage pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
19:52:04 *: bounce spots a developing tvtropes addiction
19:52:17 mircea_popescu: bounce no cause i was addicted muchly afore.
19:52:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gum chewing definition of ?acultural? << term 'nekulturny' actually pops up in english texts on occasion. because it applies.
19:52:54 mircea_popescu: wow it does huh
19:53:02 jurov: really?
19:53:02 mircea_popescu: ty, adding to my bag.
19:53:10 mircea_popescu: i'd never have guessed.
19:53:35 jurov: ;;ud nekulturny
19:53:36 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: nekulturny
19:53:46 Apocalyptic: sounds like a slovak word
19:54:05 asciilifeform: probably exists in all slavic languages
19:54:26 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
19:54:39 fluffypony: holy shit
19:54:40 jurov: from my cursory research it looks it's much more insulting in russian
19:54:41 ozbot: Americas overtake Africa as region with most murders | World news | theguardian.com
19:54:49 asciilifeform: basic soviet meaning, a fellow who's had no truck with human cultural achievements - literature, physics, philosophy, whatever
19:54:55 fluffypony: we're not so bad here!
19:54:57 fluffypony: yay
19:55:03 asciilifeform: but also for folks with no manners
19:55:19 Apocalyptic: ^ that's the meaning that comes to mind first to me
19:55:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "a particular flavour of inhumanity"
19:55:26 asciilifeform: read 'savage brute'
19:55:49 mircea_popescu: fluffypony is that raw total or per capita ?
19:56:00 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: looks like it's per capita
19:56:23 fluffypony: they do it on a "murders per 100k people" basis
19:56:25 asciilifeform: in some places, savage brute is someone who picks his nose - in others, one who never heard of differential equations.
19:56:28 asciilifeform: all depends on context.
19:58:15 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu ...
19:58:38 mircea_popescu: fluffypony wow.
19:59:05 bounce: the student club had a rule that you couldn't actually lie. ie answers must be truthful. but you could refuse to answer on grounds of the question being too direct. add in some rules that made buying the entire bar population beers both very easy to do and hard to figure out for the barman... well, it's a student club, whaddaya expect?
19:59:30 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah, I was quite surprised, the ex-pats have beaten the "murder rate in South Africa is the highest in the world" speech into everyone's heads we're starting to believe it ourselves
20:01:40 mircea_popescu: fluffypony but wait, you meant all of africa vs north, south and central america ?
20:01:58 bounce: compared to the conspiring, deceit, backstabbing, betrayal, "white" lieing, bald faced lieing, and all that, happening among the most cultured of any population, traditionally the aristocrats and like court dwellers, that's outright friendly and truthful.
20:02:18 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I'm talking specifically about South Africa - our murder rate is mentioned in the article, ~30 per 100k vs Honduras at ~90 per 100k
20:02:29 mircea_popescu: bounce aristocrats and courtiers don't map.
20:02:34 fluffypony: s/30/31
20:02:40 mircea_popescu: it's like saying smart people and web developers.
20:02:53 mircea_popescu: fluffypony what if you only count white people ?
20:03:01 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: significantly lower
20:03:12 mircea_popescu: well then okay.
20:03:13 twizt: lol
20:03:22 mircea_popescu: i had bought the same arguments, omg sa is terrible.
20:03:32 fluffypony: we're a small part of the population (relatively), and a lot of the murders are gang related
20:03:40 fluffypony: for eg. Cape Town now has a higher murder rate than Johannesburg
20:03:54 fluffypony: but something ridiculous like 80% of the murders occur in Lavender Hill
20:04:04 fluffypony: which is gang warfare territory in the Cape Flats
20:04:08 fluffypony: that even policeman don't go into
20:04:10 fluffypony: much less white people
20:04:16 mircea_popescu: aha
20:04:29 bounce: not true. any high concentration of power without proper management tends to bring lots of little kingdoms, warring each other. I'm told the pettiest squabbles can be found in academia.
20:04:48 mircea_popescu: bounce wait, what specifically isn't true ?
20:05:13 fluffypony: bounce: are we still talking about murder rates?
20:05:13 bounce: well, what did you mean with "don't map"?
20:05:25 mircea_popescu: lots of little kingdoms don't necessarily war each other, and moreover the wars of little kingdoms are not at all like the wars of national-socialist statal machines,
20:05:38 mircea_popescu: the sort that opposed the french and the germans, or the germans and the russians, or the french and the russians
20:05:59 mircea_popescu: bounce i meant aristocrats and courtiers are two mostly distinct things.
20:06:33 mircea_popescu: in general one can't be both. whenever aristocrats were forced to be courtiers historically, they lost their aristocracy, and the state collapsed
20:06:42 mircea_popescu: (seen both in china and in france, quite identical)
20:06:43 bounce: both are at the top of the societal pile, if in slightly different senses.
20:06:53 mircea_popescu: this does not make much of a similarity.
20:07:04 mircea_popescu: the top of a cake and the top of an oil tank aren't similar on grounds of topness.
20:07:16 bounce: but the cake is a lie.
20:07:49 bounce: anyhow, I'll gladly concede this since my interest is in a different point.
20:08:06 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I am not available for chatting much longer tonight.
20:08:32 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, did you 1) find my proposal among your emails now? 2) do you have an answer? I submitted it with the request that you review and answer within three business days, which I thought was reasonable.
20:08:55 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust robwhiz22
20:08:55 asciilifeform: robwhiz22 is 'elusive joe'
20:08:58 mircea_popescu: well... which point ?
20:09:10 asciilifeform: 'The "Elusive Joe" (Russian: Неуловимый Джо) has become an ironic nickname in Russia for various difficult-to-find persons (not necessarily unimportant ones). It is suggested that the nickname and the joke originated from a 1923 satirical novel An Elusive Enemy. American Novel by Mikhail Kozyrev (ru:Козырев, Михаил Яковлевич) which contained a funny song about a Joe who was e
20:09:10 asciilifeform: lusive because no one needed him.'
20:09:27 thestringpuller: lolololololololol
20:09:42 mircea_popescu: course it's more like elusive djo in russian
20:09:46 bounce: dose roossians
20:09:48 asciilifeform: naturally
20:10:02 asciilifeform: i used to think that 'elusive joe' is an american expression
20:10:13 mircea_popescu: haha
20:10:24 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, the whole proposal - I can email again if you have trouble fining the previous emails. There 2 I think, of which you answered the second one inviting me here, and one follow-up one.
20:10:32 mircea_popescu: i do't think american expressions are allowed to contain words such as elusive
20:10:33 asciilifeform: basic idea, desperado who isn't wanted for anything but thinks he's 'hot on the run'
20:11:07 bounce: robwhiz22: the best way for you to stop running around in circles is stop running around in circles. drop the text in a pastebin and share. you have permission to do this already.
20:11:10 fluffypony: robwhiz22: I think you're on /ignore, he was talking to bounce
20:11:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform romanian canonical equivalent is "tu crezi ca te cauta militia pe messenger". ie, you think the militsya is pursuing you through im.
20:11:58 mircea_popescu: (joke beingthat the militsya was an obsolete institution, and famously the people it employed could not write)
20:12:30 robwhiz22: fluffypony, I doubt I am on ignore. He began to answer me but had to go. The other day, I had to leave earlier.
20:12:48 mircea_popescu: coined by a blogger, in this post : http://www.jeg.ro/dupa-monitoru-gri-stam-noi-anonimitatea/
20:12:50 bounce: .oO( certainly argumentative )
20:15:23 bounce: re reinventing the wheel, wasn't there a medico recently that got a paper published essentially reinventing calculus (and naming it after himself, naturally)?
20:16:32 asciilifeform: bounce: well there was (still is...) a wealthy american crackpot who claimed cellular automata as his invention, suing anyone who publicly disagreed
20:16:43 asciilifeform: ;;google wolfram batshit insanity
20:17:04 asciilifeform: but that was a while ago.
20:18:12 asciilifeform: to my great shame, i (well, my research group, at my request) bought his software once.
20:19:22 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I've just clicked 'forward all' and reforwarded you my proposal and follow-up email. Please check the mail and I would very much appreciate a response. I feel I've given adequate time for your consideration.
20:24:08 mircea_popescu: the whole thing sounds like tom sawyer's aunt.
20:24:43 mircea_popescu: also http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/915.html doesn't exist
20:24:55 ozbot: Stephen Wolfram, A New Kind of Science
20:25:22 mircea_popescu: also, google does not return the wayback machine for a "web history" query.
20:25:30 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, they return all the wikipedia pages possible.
20:25:42 mircea_popescu: must be cool to run a search engine that consists of promoting your friends.
20:26:12 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu - ?
20:27:08 bounce: could (also) be self-selecting, of course. archive.org might wlel be.
20:27:14 bounce: s/wlel/well/
20:27:17 mircea_popescu: perhaps.
20:32:23 bounce: 9th paragraph, unkindly said, "applying the new jersey approach to the universe"
20:33:40 mircea_popescu: "My teacher, more patient than I would be with adolescent arrogance, gently informed me that it was a standard technique, in any book on linear algebra, called "reduction to Jordan normal form", after the man who discovered it in the 1800s. "
20:34:02 mircea_popescu: i want this entered into the record of proof for the importance of beating schoolchildren.
20:34:18 mircea_popescu: kids that have no experience with beatings have no conceivable incentive to abandon the notion they invented jordan normal form.
20:35:04 jurov: bah, even these who do
20:35:04 fluffypony: robwhiz22: why don't you just put the docs online for all to see/download? Or PasteBin it? You've been given permission to do so, after all.
20:35:26 bounce: nothing said the writer got beaten nor he didn't abandon the notion he wasn't the first when told
20:36:04 bounce: pretty cool he found it out himself, even if it turned out later he wasn't the first.
20:36:11 mircea_popescu: bounce sure, pretty cool.
20:38:19 ozbot: vid.ly/7h6w6m
20:38:35 robwhiz22: fluffypony, I wouldn't need permission.
20:39:24 fluffypony: dun dun dun DUN
20:39:53 robwhiz22: fluffypony, more importantly, it's not like I did the entire project on spec (Google 'on spec' or 'spec work').
20:39:54 mircea_popescu: "Martin-L?f showed, again roughly speaking, that complex objects will pass many high-reliability tests for randomness, and conversely objects which pass randomness tests must have high algorithmic complexity."
20:39:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what nonsense is this ;/
20:40:30 asciilifeform: not familiar with the 'complex objects' in question.
20:40:33 jurov: s/complex/shiny/
20:40:38 jurov: :D
20:41:02 bounce: go on, polish xkcd's "4" some more, why don't you? :)
20:41:51 mircea_popescu: me either, but as described it's scandalous.
20:42:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was probably speaking of greg chaitin's entropy.
20:42:31 mircea_popescu: the guy does declare he's trained as a phys, so i guess rank cluelessness about math may be excused
20:42:40 mircea_popescu: no he's talking of Kolmogorov
20:42:48 robwhiz22: :)
20:42:52 robwhiz22: I wrote "mircea_popescu, for what you're discussing now you should look at kolmogorov complexity."
20:43:00 BingoBoingo: robwhiz22: If you thing your solicitation reveals flaws, public disclosure is the responsible thing to do
20:43:03 robwhiz22: but I didn't submit as I didn't want to become your consultant on here for free. :)
20:44:07 robwhiz22: And more to the point I don't really know the application. It's, quote-unquote "out of scope"
20:44:37 fluffypony: quote-unquie
20:44:41 fluffypony: *unquite
20:44:45 *: fluffypony needs more wine
20:45:49 asciilifeform: ok, for everyone who didn't catch it the first time i posted it,
20:45:50 ozbot: derp_more.txt - Pastebin.com
20:46:21 asciilifeform: no one can say i wasn't patient.
20:46:39 BingoBoingo: robwhiz22: If you dunno they application how can you be competent to critique it?
20:47:17 asciilifeform: i'd also like to add, for the edification of future spammers, that blatant sockmuppetry (switching handles every week) does not add credibility.
20:48:35 robwhiz22: BingoBoingo, I didn't critique it. I don't know anything about any RNG project. I was just answering mircea_popescu's question, in which he quoted "and conversely objects which pass randomness tests must have high algorithmic complexity" and hten said "not familiar with the 'complex objects' in question.".
20:50:46 bounce: 966 lines. looks like a bit of a waste.
20:53:05 Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> no one can say i wasn't patient. << and that's an understatement
20:53:06 jurov: tl;dr:<ninjashogun> cardano can suddenly change into usb keyboard hence its insecure
20:53:15 jurov: i did not read further
20:53:27 asciilifeform: see mp's essay about 'your wife changes into dog'
20:53:40 mircea_popescu: wait i wrote that ?!
20:53:46 asciilifeform: somewhere.
20:53:53 jurov: or a pig... there's actually a book about that
20:53:56 bounce: no, he is a dog. this is the internets.
20:53:59 mike_c: 3 hours! that take some serious zen power.
20:54:07 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, are you working on an RNG project? Do you have a link?
20:54:17 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, or announcement?
20:54:20 mircea_popescu: mike_c next time you want to ask me why the cardano isn't done by xmas...
20:54:31 asciilifeform: how many pictures of the damn thing have to be posted
20:54:32 mike_c: hehe
20:54:56 jurov: robwhiz22: it's often discussed here, if you'd actually read the logs
20:55:07 asciilifeform: as if an rng were a nuke, or any other rarity
20:55:12 jurov: but you seem to be write-only dude
20:55:25 bounce: maybe it should be. backdoored and all.
20:55:36 mircea_popescu: ;;google wilbur glenn voliva
20:55:40 bounce: bogon-triggered tacnuke
20:56:01 mircea_popescu: he's like Julia A. Moore but forscience.
20:56:58 robwhiz22: jurov, why is it often discussed here? Could you summarize?
20:57:08 fluffypony: robwhiz22: the rng project is basically based on buttcoin:sharpie density
20:57:16 robwhiz22: jurov, is there a write-up somewhere?
20:57:40 thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
20:57:49 asciilifeform: i can't wait for this fellow's Amazing RNG Improvement ideas.
20:57:54 jurov: robwhiz22: google the logs for hookers+microphone
20:58:42 fluffypony: asciilifeform: the seed is a digital breathalyser...works best when you're drunk;)
20:58:49 asciilifeform: etc
20:58:50 ozbot: Unsorted collection of various Cardano related updates + spurious pics pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mirce
21:01:40 mircea_popescu: "This brings me to the core of what I dislike about Wolfram's book. It is going to set the field back by years. On the one hand, scientists in other fields are going to think we're all crackpots like him. On the other hand, we're going to be deluged, again, with people who fall for this kind of nonsense. I expect to have to waste a lot of time in the next few years de-programming students who'll have read A New Kind of
21:01:40 mircea_popescu: Science before knowing any better."
21:01:44 mircea_popescu: fuycking problem of bitcoin.
21:02:04 mircea_popescu: we do not want "more adoption", especially if that "more adoption" is sandmans brought in by aspirin bitcoin "jesuses"
21:04:26 asciilifeform: it is worth noting that herr w. created his flagship product by 'pulling a bitcoinica'
21:05:31 asciilifeform: (ran off with taxpayer-funded 'macsyma' and hired some people to write a gui)
21:05:45 thestringpuller: the problem of bitcoin is the problem of the internet...eternal september
21:06:10 asciilifeform: there's a unique species of crackpot - the kind with actual power
21:06:12 asciilifeform: e.g. lysenko
21:06:19 jurov: all that rubbish. why i had to do my first programming steps in qbasic?
21:06:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not pulling a bitcoinica, that's pulling a washingtonica.
21:06:30 turbo_ac100: no block found for 45 min. Is that true?
21:06:33 jurov: because nobody could be bothered to make free list for msdos
21:06:37 mircea_popescu: ;;tslb
21:06:39 jurov: *lisp
21:06:46 joecool: lawdy
21:06:55 [\]: balls
21:06:58 jurov: all these high horses
21:07:05 mircea_popescu: jurov if you stole msdos to the degree you thought it was free
21:07:10 mircea_popescu: why didn't you steal lisp too
21:07:19 jurov: cuz nobody around had it
21:07:22 fluffypony: jurov: you think that's bad, I started on GWBASIC and then progressed to Pascal
21:07:29 fluffypony: took me years to unlearn bad habits
21:07:33 asciilifeform: there were many lisps of various descriptions for msdos
21:07:33 jurov: i progressed to pascal, too
21:07:35 *: bounce liked pascal
21:07:39 mircea_popescu: i actually liked qbasic. dunno why all the hate.
21:07:42 asciilifeform: but, afaik, no 'adult' ansi common lisp
21:07:55 thestringpuller: who didn't like basic
21:07:58 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: qbasic or quickbasic?
21:08:00 thestringpuller: it's classic
21:08:00 mircea_popescu: nono, qbasic.
21:08:01 [\]: urmom
21:08:06 mircea_popescu: it had this auto eval window
21:08:10 *: daybyter throws in some java...
21:08:11 fluffypony: yeah that was cool
21:08:16 bounce: back when, no ubiquitous 'net, not even a modem, and no connections to extoll the virtues of lisp
21:08:18 mircea_popescu: you'd go ? 12*32 and it was really like ;;calc
21:08:20 [\]: I still remember seeing a=a+1 for the first time
21:08:23 fluffypony: I vastly preferred PowerBasic to Turbo PAscal
21:08:25 fluffypony: *Pascal
21:08:27 [\]: and thinking that that statement was impossible
21:08:33 bounce: did get a forth from somebody, but without a good book it was hard to get started with it
21:08:35 asciilifeform: phun phact. msdos 'edit' is actually 'qbasic', with the basic ineptly commented out - in such a way that the code is still buried in the binary.
21:08:35 [\]: since algebra says things must be balanced
21:08:43 fluffypony: asciilifeform: I remember
21:08:56 mircea_popescu: and besides. qbasic came with monkeys.bas
21:09:04 mircea_popescu: i kept editing the code to do weird shit. was loads of fun
21:09:05 fluffypony: omg that and the tank game
21:09:10 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I learned something today I never knew...mind blown.
21:09:31 daybyter: fluffypony: combat?
21:09:34 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it was [pretty obvious even at the time. they looked alike.
21:09:47 Diablo-D3: and you know whats really fun?
21:09:57 Diablo-D3: quickbasic uses a more powerful version of that editor
21:10:13 fluffypony: daybyter: can't remember
21:10:31 bounce: some things are best forgotten
21:10:32 fluffypony: I remember when I got my Nokia 6110 and it had Snake on it
21:10:34 fluffypony: I was like
21:10:37 fluffypony: "Nibbles?"
21:10:42 mircea_popescu: hahaha yeah
21:10:46 fluffypony: and nobody understood wtf I was talking about
21:10:47 Diablo-D3: fuck yeah nibbles
21:11:11 daybyter: that game?
21:11:13 fluffypony: *clicks*
21:11:31 Diablo-D3: no not that game
21:11:47 ozbot: QBASIC Gorillas - YouTube
21:11:49 Diablo-D3: gorillas
21:11:50 Diablo-D3: lulz
21:11:55 fluffypony: daybyter: yes!
21:11:55 jurov: anyway. what i want to say, despite it was quite decent environment, it naturally led everyone to use turbopascal&co.
21:12:08 Diablo-D3: but yeah, qbasic had a scortched earth clone
21:12:12 jurov: if there was a cool DOS game built on lisp
21:12:22 jurov: we could have been years ahead
21:12:45 asciilifeform: problem being, all 'small' lisps are interpreters (what nearly everyone thinks of all lisps as being)
21:13:00 asciilifeform: because optimizing compilers are bulky - and require serious thought to write
21:13:08 joecool: finally a new block
21:13:09 fluffypony: jurov: I will say this much, Turbo Pascal forced me to learn asm because some functions were orders of magnitude faster when offloaded to inline asm
21:13:09 mircea_popescu: ^
21:13:22 mircea_popescu: actually it was a while until they had the first optimizing compiler working
21:13:35 jurov: what problem? 386 can run a nifty logic game with interpreter
21:13:45 fluffypony: who remembers Swag, the Turbo Pascal code snippets collection?
21:13:55 robwhiz22: sorry, I received a phone call and was disconnected without noticing.
21:14:01 mircea_popescu: i remember dlh, the useful game info collection.
21:14:03 asciilifeform: fluffypony: me. i still consult 'swag' for algos, once in a blue moon.
21:14:04 mircea_popescu: good enough ?
21:14:26 dignork: ew, I remember writing TSR programs in TP+asm, it was a horrible junk
21:14:27 asciilifeform: anyone remember the 'magical decompiler' somebody planted in 'swag'? (actually the 'gold bug' virus)
21:15:02 fluffypony: asciilifeform: I remember trading copies on stiffy disk because the Internet wasn't as common, and then eventually in like 1998/1999 downloading my first "current" release
21:15:20 fluffypony: dignork: it was the gold standard at the time :-P
21:16:11 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, you said earlier you did not see my two emails to you. I forwarded both to you now - did you get them?
21:16:47 daybyter: any android devs here?
21:16:53 daybyter: interested in tradebots?
21:17:03 robwhiz22: I used the address from the cryptome announcement, which you responded to once suggesting I talk to you here.
21:17:21 dignork: fluffypony, and Ralph Brown's INT list, although there was some nice interactive help system as well
21:17:24 robwhiz22: The forward includes both emails.
21:18:04 fluffypony: heh
21:18:16 fluffypony: dignork: before that list I used a Peter Norton programming guide that had an interrupt table
21:19:24 bounce: borland turbo pascal was a great step-up to asm because it was easy to get going with --also nicely light-weight compared to C!-- and made inline asm ridiculously easy.
21:19:36 fluffypony: bounce: agreed
21:19:50 fluffypony: borland really screwed things up over the years
21:20:33 bounce: smallest TSR I did was... 32 bytes total memory cost. 16 bytes code, 16 bytes allocated memory given to DOS before exiting.
21:20:54 jurov: ^ and 20 years later, lispers still accusatorily point fingers in vain
21:21:06 jurov: Meh.
21:21:22 mircea_popescu: bounce inline asm is not easy in c ?
21:21:31 mircea_popescu: you can just put it in a pointer and... execute it.
21:21:49 fluffypony: dat asm
21:21:49 bounce: the tp compiler does its thing much quicker than the tc compiler
21:23:58 bounce: and can relatively simply be put on a 360k floppy; just drop the bgi stuff from the std lib collection. compiler, stdlib, 3rd party editor. off you go. that just doesn't work so well with C.
21:24:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you want the compiler to asm for you, vs. having to drop in a hex string and function ptr to it, compiler has to understand inline asm.
21:24:44 dignork: bounce, there was a debug.exe just to write .COM, i think it was still supplied in winXP
21:24:49 mircea_popescu: but the difference is purely acaemic.
21:24:55 Naphex: people here should stop talking about turbo pascal
21:24:58 mircea_popescu: wtf is it going to do with it, give you asm error messages ?
21:25:01 Naphex: in order too keep this channel cool
21:25:20 Naphex: hehe
21:25:34 mircea_popescu: CD 21
21:25:38 mircea_popescu: there i've asm'd.
21:25:44 asciilifeform: lol!
21:26:14 mircea_popescu: :D
21:26:43 asciilifeform: i'm one of the lucky (unlucky?) folks who uses x86 asm at day job.
21:26:59 mircea_popescu: i haven't since the days i was looking through files to spot stoned.b
21:27:05 mircea_popescu: before "antivirus" was a thing
21:27:21 asciilifeform: a fun diversion, for those innocent of such matters:
21:27:24 asciilifeform: ;;google ascii shellcode
21:27:32 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I will have to go soon.
21:27:40 fluffypony: asciilifeform: on embedded devices or generally?
21:27:40 bounce: borland turbo C also had a similar "basm" thingy, so no need to fsck around with hexstrings. tp was just the thing we used because it was easy to use. indeed, easier than tc.
21:28:06 asciilifeform: fluffypony: generally. reading, rather than writing.
21:28:56 bounce: back in the days of 'zines over modem and even the odd book with virus listings from the library. forbidden knowledge!
21:29:41 MGK: Anyone interested in a graded MS65 1BTC casasius coin? Asking 1.5btc.
21:31:57 benkay: graded?
21:32:57 benkay: MGK: graded?
21:33:25 MGK: yes
21:33:30 MGK: MS65
21:34:14 jurov: as in, .999 fine brass?
21:34:26 benkay: as in .99 pure btc
21:36:02 fluffypony: bounce: fk was the shiznat
21:36:05 benkay: ;;lasers
21:36:14 jurov: ;;railgun
21:36:18 mike_c: ;;kittenlasers
21:36:28 asciilifeform: ;;nailgun
21:36:29 jurov: ;;monorailcat
21:36:45 fluffypony: bounce: or wait, I'm talking about the old South African zine called forbidden knowledge, not sure if you were just saying that in general
21:36:47 mike_c: ;;laserkittens
21:36:58 jurov: wuuut
21:37:13 benkay: wow.
21:37:20 mike_c: what? it's a kitten with a laser. no biggie.
21:37:35 bounce: that didn't quite reach faraway europe, I don't think, no.
21:37:51 bounce: or maybe it did and I just don't remember.
21:38:23 MGK: yes the brass 2013
21:38:31 MGK: sorry Im doing a few things
21:39:02 fluffypony: terrible
21:39:51 bounce: .txt file, starts with <html>. huh.
21:39:51 BingoBoingo: ;;manul
21:40:24 mircea_popescu: ;;derpage
21:40:27 mircea_popescu: ;/
21:40:30 fluffypony: reading some of the stuff I contributed is painful
21:40:41 fluffypony: 14 years is a long time ago
21:40:43 bounce: ;;canned derpage
21:41:55 benkay: hey mircea_popescu i think i'm misreading your mpex tech stuff article - web servers have a copy of the db to fulfill stat requests?
21:42:22 mircea_popescu: pretty much
21:42:44 mircea_popescu: it's anonimized to some degree, mostly by replacing keys, but that shouldn't be relied on.
21:43:18 benkay: do they then have a copy of the mpex keys as well? for the signing of stats etc?
21:45:09 benkay: mircea_popescu ^^
21:45:28 mircea_popescu: no
21:46:15 benkay: how does a stat get signed then?
21:46:23 mircea_popescu: that's complicated.
21:48:29 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I'll try to reach you tomorrow. What is the best time to talk in here?
21:49:04 benkay: complicated i can handle
21:50:08 mircea_popescu: well no, what i mean is "that's complicated" in the sense of i'm not about to spill it.
21:50:11 ozbot: An Error Has Occurred
21:50:24 benkay: oh i got that loud and clear
21:52:01 robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, that is a good policy.
21:52:14 robwhiz22: I'll be on tomorrow.
21:53:53 fluffypony: I look forward to robwhiz22 joining us tomorrow
21:54:05 fluffypony: maybe he'll show us the sekrit dokumints
21:54:14 benkay: ;;gettrust fluffypony
21:54:26 fluffypony: ;;ident fluffypony
21:54:35 fluffypony: ;;voiceme
21:54:40 *: fluffypony hugs gribble
21:54:42 rithm: /nickserv identify rithm sekritpa55word
21:54:43 *: bounce proposes an ignore-o-meter that'll show who gets ignored by how many others in nice convenient bargraphs
21:54:59 rithm: DOH!
21:55:06 fluffypony: rithm: PRIVKEY NEXT PLZ
21:55:18 mircea_popescu: !b 4
21:56:11 dignork: rithm, /msg NickServ SET PASSWORD sekritpa55word2
21:56:17 rithm: -----BEGIN RSA PRIVATE KEY-----
21:56:18 rithm: MIIEpQIBAAKCAQEA1lEXqr+TZ70mhIr+Ju92krlUiEO8MlXXXeZVAvZqlkI2AC2V
21:56:18 rithm: Qb+jTmfu/LwZXAYpsmgsi17zU0RytRO0/jYJ2P9HoY6x3qVvwm/Uoog1iVjaDrBd
21:56:18 rithm: F
21:56:37 rithm: omg hax
21:56:54 *: rithm knew he shouldn't have used ssl on his bouncer
21:57:06 *: fluffypony heartbleedz rithm dry
21:57:15 *: bounce next develops a calculus of (whatever the term is for the state of being ignored)
21:57:17 rithm: i tested my shit
21:57:23 dignork: rithm, pastebin your privkey, it got truncated :(
21:57:26 rithm: none of the affected are exposed
21:57:33 rithm: i'm taking my time
21:57:42 rithm: drinking beer and shit watching the internet burn
21:58:28 rithm: ya'll didn't even try to login to nickserv gah
21:58:31 rithm: boring
21:59:00 rithm: thanks fluffypony
21:59:04 fluffypony: :)
21:59:04 *: rithm feels better
21:59:10 fluffypony: I try to make you happy
21:59:30 dignork: rithm, i just checked that i have this password in list of human generated passwords (i did)
21:59:41 rithm: nice
21:59:53 rithm: it's my passphrase to my wallet too
22:00:03 rithm: that i generated in stock ubuntu
22:00:18 rithm: it's still online with billions of bitcoins if you want 'em come get em bro
22:00:46 los_pantalones: so what's goin on right now? gox coins flooding mkt ?
22:00:58 fluffypony: rithm: I think I'm going to try random sha256 hash collision instead
22:01:00 mircea_popescu: los_pantalones what gox coins ?
22:01:50 akstunt600: lol gox coins
22:02:09 los_pantalones: karpeles selling usbs on the street?
22:02:23 akstunt600: hahhahahah yeah right
22:02:33 akstunt600: he is too much of a pussy for all that
22:02:38 los_pantalones: why not? he's dumb enough
22:02:45 los_pantalones: well, not that i'd know personally
22:02:50 los_pantalones: he seems dumb enough, excuse me
22:02:50 akstunt600: because hes scared
22:02:56 akstunt600: nooooo terrified
22:03:06 akstunt600: he thinks btc has been around 10yrs
22:03:08 akstunt600: lol
22:03:15 fluffypony: ohaaaai Mark
22:03:24 akstunt600: hahha
22:03:24 los_pantalones: ever seen that study about how really dumb people don't realize they are dumb
22:03:28 los_pantalones: defense mechanism
22:03:30 fluffypony: akstunt600: I'm sure he meant 10 years experience in netsec and not btc, though
22:03:38 akstunt600: i know :p
22:03:42 akstunt600: im toying
22:03:49 jurov: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-core-developers-bitcoin-side-chains/ i herd you like blockchains, so...
22:04:01 akstunt600: hhahahahah jurov
22:04:12 akstunt600: this sidechain stuff is cool
22:04:33 akstunt600: like especially if they did like zerocoin styl on 2nd chain
22:04:34 los_pantalones: so, no theories on px move in here ?
22:04:44 los_pantalones: or no cares ?
22:04:58 fluffypony: what boggles my mind is that they (mtgox) were liquid enough to pay someone to rewrite everything in a less-crap way, and to permanently employ a bunch of CISSPs (at the very least)
22:05:13 benkay: ;;later tell princessnell it's actually gpg keys which are tied to mpex accounts
22:05:16 fluffypony: to have such an Ivory Tower complex that you don't is...well...
22:05:20 mircea_popescu: los_pantalones no one cares.
22:05:26 jurov: fluffypony look no further than thermos
22:05:29 los_pantalones: figured
22:05:30 los_pantalones: ty
22:05:41 fluffypony: jurov: don't get me started
22:05:52 fluffypony: makes me seriously irritated
22:05:55 akstunt600: lol
22:06:00 akstunt600: thermos?
22:06:04 akstunt600: wut?
22:06:08 fluffypony: akstunt600: yes, he doesn't keep the coffee hot!
22:06:09 mircea_popescu: fluffypony they never were liquid enough. not ever.
22:06:13 akstunt600: hahhahahhahahah
22:06:24 jurov: fluffypony no problem, lay here on the couch and let's latalk
22:06:29 jurov: *talk
22:06:39 kakobrekla: also put your pants down.
22:06:43 fluffypony: yes
22:06:46 benkay: davout mircea_popescu x.eur has delivery performed by delivery of cash to a bitcoin-central account, right?
22:06:50 fluffypony: and if someone can give me a scalp massage
22:06:56 mircea_popescu: benkay yes.
22:07:08 mircea_popescu: people don't quite grasp how bad a business mtgox was on a cashflow basis.
22:07:25 benkay: ;;later tell princessnell http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2014&bots=true#614499
22:07:26 mircea_popescu: 1. it was created by jeb mccaleb, the douche that recently fucked up kraken, and some other derps, on a shoestring.
22:07:39 dignork: mircea_popescu, but nobody knows really, have they ever published any reports?
22:07:39 mircea_popescu: it went nowhere so 2. karpeles took it over, with aid from some angel investors.
22:07:56 akstunt600: what did you expect they were a magic the gathering trading site
22:07:58 mircea_popescu: he proceeded to buy some failed polish exchange, which was over its history a loss,
22:08:10 akstunt600: well not officialy but i dont believeit
22:08:12 mircea_popescu: and then 3. got raped by jeb mccaleb (the "auditor") taking btc to 1 cent.
22:08:29 mircea_popescu: then they ran at a loss for all of 2012, piling more and more angel round money into a hole.
22:08:36 fluffypony: eish
22:08:44 akstunt600: yeah such sad shit
22:08:51 mircea_popescu: then just as 2013 brought increased prices and revenues, they lost 5mn dollars to the us fed, because karpeles is retarded and doesn't understand when to say no.
22:08:55 akstunt600: at least they didnt try to sell goxshares
22:09:00 fluffypony: hah
22:09:05 akstunt600: like cryptorush fiasco
22:09:07 mircea_popescu: all through this they were trying to daytrade, and doing it as well as bitcoinica
22:09:08 fluffypony: or IPO it
22:09:10 mircea_popescu: (horribly badly)
22:09:10 akstunt600: but thats small potatoes
22:09:21 akstunt600: omg IPO would have been epic
22:09:40 fluffypony: akstunt600: I know
22:09:42 fluffypony: in fact
22:09:46 mircea_popescu: this is something you can maybe carry on for a while, but if you're trying to it's a damned good idea not to annoy me as a side dish.
22:09:46 fluffypony: they should have done it as a coin
22:09:47 jurov: akstunt600: they will inevitably try it as "Gox"
22:09:49 fluffypony: GoxCoin IPO
22:10:06 akstunt600: Oh yeah that
22:10:10 mircea_popescu: and so this brings us to the spring of 2013, ever increasing pressures and eventually their collapse.
22:10:11 akstunt600: gox builder
22:10:13 akstunt600: lol
22:10:21 mircea_popescu: they never actually had a lump of money they didn't owe someone.
22:10:34 jurov: i want to see a bank that'll dare to manage New Gox's acct
22:10:58 akstunt600: hahahha i dont even want to see that attempted
22:11:00 mircea_popescu: dignork yes.
22:11:03 mircea_popescu: pdf, of course.
22:11:19 akstunt600: mircea_popescu, that makes perfect sense to me
22:11:29 akstunt600: I never touched them
22:12:21 dignork: mircea_popescu if i read the history correctly, their report was published once, and long time ago
22:12:47 mircea_popescu: three reports they published afaik
22:13:07 mircea_popescu: 2010, 2011, 2012
22:15:32 ozbot: Investor Group Seeks Court OK to Buy, Revive Bankrupt Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox - WSJ.com
22:15:48 jurov: need to find non paywalled article
22:16:02 los_pantalones: google the headline
22:16:11 mircea_popescu: jurov that's ok, that's the last anyone'll ever heard of that.
22:16:24 jurov: The investor group, which includes Brock Pierce, a former child actor-turned technology entrepreneur,
22:16:32 jurov: i think that's all i need to know
22:16:57 fluffypony: LOL
22:17:38 fluffypony: from now on I'm going to tell people I"m a former child actor-turned technology entrepreneur
22:18:09 jurov: .. and investor with hollywood ties
22:18:11 dignork: well, for 1btc I'd buy it just for lulz
22:18:26 akstunt600: hahhah jurov
22:18:33 mircea_popescu: dignork you familiar with court supervised acquisitions ?
22:19:35 bounce: not me, explain away. why do they need an "investor group" to pony up one full bitcoin, given that they're not paying the debts outright but planning to pay'em back by running the thing anew?
22:20:21 dignork: mircea_popescu, yes, not too deeply though. But I'd buy it only as "dignork", pgp key 8334BB7B5BDFA126
22:20:56 samson_: I can't get over the fact that 'Chicago-based SilkRoad Equity' are involved in this...
22:21:14 mircea_popescu: bounce you need to either pay upfront more than the judge evaluates the assets could conceivably fetch, or else execute a credible plan to deliver. and since this is examined by jurists rather than business people (and let alone forum fucktards) the estimates tend to be quite conservative.
22:21:22 akstunt600: samson_, I know right
22:21:24 fluffypony: samson_: I thought you were joking
22:21:30 samson_: no joke
22:21:30 mircea_popescu: there's a reason why noobs never succeed with these.
22:21:35 akstunt600: I dug that up to a while a go and was liek WTF
22:21:37 fluffypony: I know
22:22:58 bounce: oh to start a company and requiring all titles to have "derp" in them somewhere.
22:23:12 fluffypony: Chief Derper
22:23:19 fluffypony: or Herpiest Derper
22:23:28 bounce: conservative as in generous?
22:24:06 cazalla: not surprising to see someone like Brock Pierce involved given his history with RMT, he's the 2nd person I've come across in bitcoin that I knew of before Bitcoin, first being voorhees from wickedfire heh
22:24:08 mircea_popescu: no, conservative as in "where did you go to school ?" and other anathema mp-esque questions the child actors of this world abhor.
22:24:10 dignork: bounce, not for the buyer
22:24:24 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: do they use a jury for financial stuff as well??? geeze...:/
22:24:33 mircea_popescu: fluffypony no, but that makes it worse.
22:24:41 bounce: "higher than a bargaining businessman would-be buyer would bid", then.
22:24:51 fluffypony: oh
22:24:54 fluffypony: I misread your sentence
22:25:01 fluffypony: I thought you said examined by jurors
22:25:10 fluffypony: too much wine and it's 12:30am
22:25:15 mircea_popescu: jurists, ie, people of teh legal profession
22:25:29 fluffypony: yeah re-read it now :)
22:25:55 bounce: ah. need to have an impressive name and such. so that's why this "child actor" got roped in.
22:26:16 jurov: i suspect hollywood wants to tap the drama
22:26:31 bounce: spendy drama quality drama
22:26:52 akstunt600: hahhahha fluffypony I would like to annouce new chief operating derp
22:27:01 ozbot: WebPagetest Test Result - Dulles : www.bcoinnews.com - 04/10/14 22:25:40
22:27:12 cazalla: I think he did much more in RMT than h is child acting days tbh
22:27:19 fluffypony: akstunt600: also we need a Derp Scientist
22:27:21 mircea_popescu: cazalla what's rmt ?
22:27:26 akstunt600: yup yup
22:27:30 cazalla: real money trade
22:27:31 bounce: a Science Derpist
22:27:31 mircea_popescu: jborkl indeed
22:27:38 mircea_popescu: cazalla uh what is that ?
22:28:01 cazalla: chinese gold farming
22:28:05 mircea_popescu: oh oh.
22:28:08 mircea_popescu: mkay.
22:28:16 cazalla: he was THE guy back in the EQ days
22:28:29 mircea_popescu: and voorhees you say ?
22:28:56 cazalla: yeah wickedfire which is interesting because I read an article where you said it would attrack the internet marketing crowd and I say there thinking oh top kek that's me
22:29:02 ozbot: Mr. Derp - Video Clips - South Park Studios
22:29:14 cazalla: sat there, fuck i need a coffee
22:29:33 mircea_popescu: lol
22:31:34 fluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287653.msg6159630#msg6159630 <- they're *still* Heartbleed vulnerable
22:31:36 ozbot: FairProof.com - the simplest provably fair bitcoin multi-lottery (instant)
22:31:47 fluffypony: I even pm'd them to tell them
22:31:52 fluffypony: and then they announce a new SSL cert, wtf
22:32:54 bounce: now the race is on to see who can post their secret key here the first
22:33:16 bounce: s/here the/here/
22:34:09 mircea_popescu: cazalla so what do you do, marketing wise ?
22:34:30 cazalla: nothing now, i just use to run spam blogs fill with adsense
22:34:36 mircea_popescu: fluffypony my wicked heart smiled when the thing was announced and schneier had to write an article about how he is affected. i on the other side, did not.
22:34:47 mircea_popescu: cazalla that's been dead for a while.
22:35:03 cazalla: panda/pengion killed it for me
22:35:25 fluffypony: cazalla: yeah, Google started loving content
22:35:28 cazalla: penguin even
22:36:18 cazalla: fluffypony: i wouldn't go that far, more like loving adwords and their pushing their own products into every profitable vertical
22:36:27 asciilifeform: what's the excuse for a blog using ssl anyway?
22:36:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "security"
22:36:45 asciilifeform: seekoority.
22:36:47 fluffypony: asciilifeform: aren't we moving towards SSL on everything forever?
22:36:54 mircea_popescu: no.
22:37:06 mircea_popescu: we are moving away from ssl and generally pki, and generally usg-crap. forever.
22:37:09 cazalla: still, never though indians writing 250 word articles for $3 would scale like it did
22:37:11 asciilifeform: as if ssl were useful if it worked as printed on the box.
22:37:28 cazalla: thought*.. going back to bed, damn baby crying all night and can't even focus on spelling
22:37:43 asciilifeform: all the noise people made about key escrow in the '90s - they swallowed it in the end regardless.
22:38:05 asciilifeform: all the buggers had to do was rename it 'pki'
22:38:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's the thing : bitcoin finally creates the possibility for natural selection.
22:38:20 asciilifeform: a turd 'by any other name would smell as...'
22:38:31 mircea_popescu: it matters not that ther world is full of mastodons as long as two mice are fucking somewhere.
22:50:13 akstunt600: WOW mu bro just refunded 3 neptunes
22:50:16 akstunt600: WTF
22:51:10 akstunt600: Thats 30k in btc wow
22:51:21 akstunt600: he shorted from 1k btc rpice wow
22:52:05 thestringpuller: ;;ticker
22:54:06 MGK: Im selling a graded MS65 1bitcoin casacious coin, asking 1.5BTC.
22:56:06 SatoshiJack: mp,tat -- you guys need to get some people building around atc! I've tried contacting the Brainwallet.org devs -- but no luck getting them to show atc some love...
22:57:16 jurov: SatoshiJack: brainwallet should work with atc out of the box, no?
22:59:08 SatoshiJack: nope -- I don't think so -- no way to have it autogenerate based on the rules for atc... they will have to add support which would mean tweaking code for determinsitc wallets etc...
22:59:23 jurov: but atc has same rules as btc
22:59:39 benkay: different addresses, tho
22:59:56 jurov: how different?
23:00:15 benkay: what does your altcoin addr start with?
23:00:19 jurov: 1
23:00:51 SatoshiJack: I will give you full details in a day or so -- we are going through the code now -- and figuring out what we have tobuild for it --- our big thing is -- how we generate address etc... I need to be able to generate like 1000 or so at a time -- and also to be able to submit transactions similar to how brainwallet.org works with blockchain.info for transaction submits...
23:00:52 benkay: huh
23:01:10 ozbot: Badger Badger Badger.com The Original Dancing Badgers!
23:01:10 benkay: coulda sworn they were different
23:01:27 akstunt600: thought you could use some cheering up
23:07:34 ozbot: Mystery of Prince Rupert's Drop at 130,000 fps - Smarter Every Day 86 - YouTube
23:08:12 benkay: once upon a time i took 2nd place in physics for attempting to quantify polarization of light coming through a prd as a proxy for embedded stress
23:08:27 benkay: just look how fucking fast that thing tears itself apart
23:09:12 benkay: ha!
23:09:17 ozbot: Mystery of Prince Rupert's Drop at 130,000 fps - Smarter Every Day 86 - YouTube
23:11:21 benkay: fractures move at like 1 mile/sec
23:11:26 benkay: wild stuff.
23:25:10 Mats_cd03: cute
23:32:19 blackwhite: so whats going on with btc? was it the australian bank that caused the drop?
23:33:49 midnightmagic: lol australian bank?
23:34:51 midnightmagic: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/10/bitcoin-dumped-by-national-australia-bank-as-too-risky ah you mean that. Lame.
23:34:51 ozbot: Bitcoin firms dumped by National Australia Bank as 'too risky' | World news | theguardian.com