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Transcript for 10-04-2015, 1747 lines:

00:21:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogos.jpg

00:21:49 BingoBoingo: Beautiful

00:24:04 asciilifeform: in other news, #glibc is one of the quietest channels one could imagine short of an entirely dead one.

00:25:02 asciilifeform: in past 24 hrs, only some spew from a diffbot, and a query from a n00b re: 'ghost' vuln.

00:26:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77800 @ 0.00025562 = 19.8872 BTC [+] {2}

00:29:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00024942 = 13.1694 BTC [-] {2}

00:33:42 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'archive' link in newest qntra post appears to be dead.

00:35:49 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Fixed, was missing the f in pdf

00:37:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151922 @ 0.00027672 = 42.0399 BTC [+] {4}

00:43:16 mats: TIL AMD now contracts out their fabs

00:44:35 asciilifeform: mats: -all- of'em ?

00:46:40 mats: i believe so. http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/71016/amd-goes-fabless

00:46:43 assbot: AMD Goes Fabless - March 8, 2012 - Zacks.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1CvY028 )

00:47:46 asciilifeform: takehome message appears to be 'buy your last x86 cpu while you can.'

00:50:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64335 @ 0.0002472 = 15.9036 BTC [-] {2}

00:52:44 BingoBoingo: I'm looking for Investment advice. Any thoughts on Mayweather vs. Pacquiao?

00:54:39 decimation: asciilifeform: have you ever tried 'picolisp'?

00:54:44 asciilifeform: decimation: aha

00:54:53 asciilifeform: decimation: i found that it is only any good as a 'textbook example'

00:55:00 asciilifeform: 'throwback' lisp similar to elisp

00:55:04 asciilifeform: i.e. having dynamics scope

00:55:15 asciilifeform: which brings the infamous 'funarg problem' back from the dead

00:55:19 decimation: the guy claims to have built a small hardware processor that 'runs' picolisp

00:55:23 asciilifeform: *dynamic

00:55:28 asciilifeform: decimation: this is not hard

00:55:39 decimation: no, it sounds like a very simple mechanism

00:55:39 asciilifeform: see also 'scheme-79'

00:56:27 asciilifeform: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6334 - or my article on the subject, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46

00:56:28 assbot: DSpace@MIT: The SCHEME-79 Chip ... ( http://bit.ly/1CvZSZ0 )

00:56:30 assbot: Loper OS » Shards of Lost Technology, and the Need for High-Level Architectures. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CvZTft )

00:56:37 decimation: ah so the 'funarg problem' appears when you only use a stack

00:56:56 asciilifeform: but in general 'simple lisps' are not hard to implement

00:57:13 asciilifeform: there are approximately as many of them as there are folks with comp sci. degrees.

00:57:27 asciilifeform: what is difficult is to implement one that is worth -using-

00:58:05 asciilifeform: esp. since the 'jewel of simplicity' aspect tends to dissipate very, very quickly in unskilled hands trying to implement a modicum of actual optimization

00:58:42 decimation: yeah for example I have been trying to 'optimize' a std::vector<std::complex<float >> turd

00:58:46 decimation: in C++

00:58:50 asciilifeform: ew

00:59:27 decimation: C++ does 'just work' but if you want to use the standard functions in any way other than designed it becomes a massive hairball

00:59:42 decimation: because you are immediately faced with re-writing the whole thing from scratch

01:00:04 decimation: kinda like bitcoin & boost libraries

01:00:10 asciilifeform: even the standard aspects have questionable solidity of specification.

01:00:38 asciilifeform: (not even speaking of cross-platform portability, but the fact of any two compilers on same platform eating up the same input and producing comparable, valid output)

01:00:45 decimation: from what I gather from naggum, stroustrup basically spent most of his time marketing C++

01:00:58 decimation: and his marketing consisted of 'yeah we can include your crazy shit in the language'

01:01:05 asciilifeform: like PL/I before.

01:01:50 asciilifeform: but there can be no great charlatan without the great - in its own way - gaggle of imbecilic chumps to go with him.

01:01:59 decimation: it seems that any sane implementer carefully sticks to a subset of the language - or a particular compiler/library

01:02:08 asciilifeform: aha.

01:02:14 asciilifeform: just as no one actually 'programs in c.'

01:02:22 decimation: right

01:02:34 asciilifeform: (it is quite impossible to do, outside of a classroom)

01:03:08 asciilifeform: this is -one- of the reasons why ada (and to a slightly-lesser extent - common lisp) is interesting

01:03:15 asciilifeform: one can -actually program in the specified language-

01:03:23 asciilifeform: and no deviation from the spec is tolerated.

01:03:31 decimation: well, it appears to come with a very well specified standard library

01:04:20 decimation: actually I kinda wonder why ada hasn't gotten more traction, given that it is far more 'portable' than C is

01:04:50 asciilifeform: because it declares war on microshit and unix, 'a pox on both their houses'

01:05:20 *: BingoBoingo debates whether to seed Mayweather/Pacquiao on BitBet

01:05:53 *: asciilifeform has never heard of either until now

01:05:58 decimation: asciilifeform: that's a good point. in many ways, controlling the 'standard library' on a platform is way more important than the kernel

01:06:35 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't help but wonder - who is playing the sport bets other than BingoBoingo ? somebody must be...

01:06:49 decimation: after all, when Linus promises not to 'break userland', he's promising to be a good slave

01:06:56 BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform has never heard of either until now << Both fighters 5 years past their prime. One Black, one Island folk. Both old enough hard to see this happening without a loss of life.

01:07:14 asciilifeform: decimation: if he 'broke' it, he will simply be left holding the short end of a fork

01:07:17 asciilifeform: trademark or not.

01:07:26 asciilifeform: orhpanned chain, if you will.

01:07:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm not comtemplating betting, but marketmaking insurance

01:09:20 decimation: http://faxtoy.net/

01:09:21 assbot: Fax Toy - Random Stuff You Fax To Us ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gvkqb9 )

01:11:30 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seems the predominant name for this match is "Debate 5 years too late"

01:12:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58900 @ 0.00026885 = 15.8353 BTC [+]

01:16:03 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: You got any thoughts on the fight?

01:19:18 BingoBoingo: !up stunna

01:19:39 BingoBoingo: stunna: You ever do any prop betting?

01:19:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72100 @ 0.00024678 = 17.7928 BTC [-] {2}

01:20:27 stunna: BingoBoingo: With friends for fun sure but nothing too serious

01:20:56 stunna: BingoBoingo: I agreed to some guy's terms a year ago for the warren buffet bet thing and he pulled out, I got lucky he got cold feet

01:21:07 stunna: BingoBoingo: Would have been out quite a few coins

01:21:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice.

01:21:41 BingoBoingo: stunna: Ah. I'm debating whether to throw down to 2BTC necessary to open up the Mayweather Pacquiao thing on BitBet, leaning towards dumping my stake on the Azn even though Vegas is against him.

01:22:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when weighing the lot, i discovered, to a bit of surprise, that there is ~50g of variance between the individual units.

01:22:23 mircea_popescu: prolly power units

01:22:30 asciilifeform: the infamous tea kettles inevitably came to mind

01:22:37 stunna: BingoBoingo: It's really all the same EV + fees, would make the fight more exciting to watch though if you put money down

01:22:52 asciilifeform: but yes, probably a fairly boring chinese variation in this or that.

01:23:08 stunna: BingoBoingo: tickets to get into that fight are ridiculously expensive, $5-6,000 for the worst possible seat all the way in the back

01:23:33 BingoBoingo: stunna: Well, Bitbet would be lower fee than a sportsbook (1%), just wondering if other money would come in to correct the odds.

01:25:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo marywether still boxes ?!

01:25:26 stunna: BingoBoingo: I know extremely little about sports betting, but there's probably enough people betting on there to keep the odds at whatever the official payouts are

01:25:58 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah. Him and Pacquiao have just been doing old people set up fights these past few years, because boxing is uncompetitive as hell

01:26:13 mircea_popescu: it cant be competitive.

01:26:20 mircea_popescu: that worked with a LE of 35.

01:26:58 *: BingoBoingo going to see how baseball/hockey do tonight and maybe submit the funded bet

01:27:12 mircea_popescu: what odds do you see on it ?

01:27:55 BingoBoingo: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cause-for-concern--mayweather-and-pacquiao-camps-trade-barbs-over-tickets--contract-014542951-boxing.html

01:27:57 assbot: Cause for concern? Mayweather and Pacquiao camps trade barbs over tickets, rooms, contract - Yahoo Sports ... ( http://bit.ly/1JufG49 )

01:28:37 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm seeing decimal odds pay 2.69 x stake for betting on Pacquiao

01:28:55 mircea_popescu: i thought you wanted the other one ?

01:29:03 BingoBoingo: But the fight isn't until May 2nd (3rd in GMT land)

01:32:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/04/coinbase-outgoing-email-hacked/#comment-17363 << CoinBase's outgoing mailserver, localbitcoins members list

01:32:06 assbot: Coinbase Outgoing Email Hacked | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1GvnBQg )

01:32:24 mircea_popescu: is it ?

01:32:48 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's what it appears to be.

01:33:34 mircea_popescu: anyway, bitbet sports are iffy - the one time i put money on an obscure event i recall it being covered reasonably, like 9 to 1 or somesuch

01:33:37 mircea_popescu: but you never know

01:33:58 BingoBoingo: I'm going to think about it. There's still time

01:35:56 BingoBoingo: World cup managed to get bets, but seemed to have a broader appeal

01:38:51 BingoBoingo: Next Saturday seems to be the time to pull the trigger on the bet

01:41:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00025278 = 3.4125 BTC [+]

01:54:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56300 @ 0.00024498 = 13.7924 BTC [-] {2}

01:54:50 *: BingoBoingo will probably make the decision Saturday on whether or not to stake the Bitcoin of 688 people on The last great boxing match ever.

02:03:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-owning-things/#comment-113503

02:03:40 assbot: On owning things on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z09KcW )

02:04:43 mats: 688?

02:05:33 mircea_popescu: ;;google 688 attack sub ms-dos

02:05:34 gribble: 688 Attack Sub | Old MS-DOS Games | Download for Free or play in ...: http://www.freegameempire.com/games/688-Attack-Sub; 688 Attack Sub (DOS) - Game Play - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzMUumFGt8; 688 Attack Sub - Sega Retro: http://segaretro.org/688_Attack_Sub

02:05:39 mircea_popescu: shit i loved that game.

02:09:58 mats: oic

02:17:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32587 @ 0.0002517 = 8.2021 BTC [+]

02:23:39 mats: https://github.com/linuxmint/xchat/blob/master/src/common/dcc.c#L571-573 exercise for the bored: spot the bug

02:23:41 assbot: xchat/dcc.c at master · linuxmint/xchat · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1GvvG7w )

02:36:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37517 @ 0.0002517 = 9.443 BTC [+]

02:41:22 mats: relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibF36Yyeehw&t=30m29s

02:41:23 assbot: DEFCON 17: More Tricks For Defeating SSL - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cwp4hQ )

02:42:04 mats: "just looking at the shape of this code, you know there's got to be a bug in here somewhere"

02:44:44 BingoBoingo: mats: DCC is perfect occasion for fixing code with delete key

02:45:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23900 @ 0.00025278 = 6.0414 BTC [+]

02:45:45 mats: i remember the days when you could pwn entire channels with dcc bugs

02:46:15 decimation: re: TeX discussion < at least TeX is vastly superior to microsoft word, especially when it comes to collaboration on revision

02:49:04 mats: BitchX used to go down with %s%s%s%s

02:49:24 *: BingoBoingo made his weirdix weirdcoind with the delete key and .h substitutions

02:58:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106000 @ 0.00024403 = 25.8672 BTC [-] {4}

03:07:38 []bot: Bet placed: 3.1 BTC for No on "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 22(Y):78(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.955139 BTC. Current weight: 90,058.

03:07:39 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Obama Approval Rating over 50% before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1090/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.13121127 BTC. Current weight: 42,499.

03:07:41 []bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 6(Y):94(N) by coin, 7(Y):93(N) by weight. Total bet: 24.21280975 BTC. Current weight: 62,947.

03:07:44 []bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 25.79172615 BTC. Current weight: 85,740.

03:09:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.0002407 = 7.0284 BTC [-] {2}

03:18:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00023945 = 4.5855 BTC [-]

03:21:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60500 @ 0.00025278 = 15.2932 BTC [+]

04:06:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91340 @ 0.00025387 = 23.1885 BTC [+] {2}

04:29:23 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell cazalla halp

04:29:23 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:30:08 BingoBoingo: So if Cardinals beat the reda tomorrow I will make the bet Saturday

04:31:35 BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/pepper-spraying-drones-will-be-used-on-indian-protesters/ << Chemical weapins drones for whoever wants

04:31:36 assbot: Pepper-spraying drones will be used on Indian protesters | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1acRXc5 )

04:34:06 BingoBoingo: !up IHB

04:34:10 BingoBoingo: Hello IHB

04:35:19 BingoBoingo: IHB: How goes your newsing?

04:37:44 *: BingoBoingo concedes IhB.io looks better for javascript users

04:39:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127300 @ 0.00024417 = 31.0828 BTC [-]

04:41:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99940 @ 0.00025888 = 25.8725 BTC [+] {2}

04:42:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146510 @ 0.00026566 = 38.9218 BTC [+] {2}

04:46:58 IHB: it was DDos attacked

04:47:00 IHB: last night

04:47:06 IHB: that's why i came on here

04:47:08 IHB: to tell you guys

04:47:14 IHB: BTC GAW fucking scm

04:47:15 IHB: scam

04:47:21 IHB: did qntra call it out?

04:47:42 IHB: sorry in india now

04:47:46 IHB: my internet is shoddy sometimes

04:47:53 BingoBoingo: IHB: Yeah, qntra didn't have anything on them in particular because BTCgaw followed the exact same for as a scam previously called out.

04:48:06 BingoBoingo: No worries about your connectivity

04:48:24 BingoBoingo: Qntra was born in a multi gbp/s DDoS

04:48:35 IHB: Brief due diligence

04:48:49 IHB: There is no Privacy Policy

04:48:56 IHB: There is no Terms of Services Statement

04:49:02 IHB: There is no Team Page

04:49:10 IHB: Laila Risan is listed as the domain contact, She is located in Norway.

04:49:17 IHB: Tony Gaw is quoted as being the founder, no LinkedIn profile or any other presence on the internet.

04:49:32 IHB: There are a lot of red flags, not limited to the “supposed” $1.6 million investment

04:49:39 BingoBoingo: IHB: Would you like to diversify your newsing equity? Qntra is always hungry for posts... If you can offer a BTCgaw post for the qntra you can get a share per word

04:49:49 BingoBoingo: Yeah Tony Gaw likely never was a person

04:50:51 IHB: dude. i would totally get invovled

04:51:00 IHB: but i have never done a key siging

04:51:11 IHB: and my pgp has zero points on WoT

04:52:01 BingoBoingo: IHB: I will just need a fingerprint for your key and a nick to associate it to.

04:52:30 BingoBoingo: IHB: You do good work. I see you have included qntra in your aggregator. I am grateful.

04:52:54 IHB: so how does this work? IHB is shutting down anyway and i am concentrating on an iPhone app and API we have been building.

04:53:27 BingoBoingo: IHB: Is it shutting down entirely or are you keeping the domain>

04:53:35 BingoBoingo: ?

04:53:37 IHB: yeah, that aggregator is feedly. will send you the .opml file. i think i have a lot of the good sites to follow. would love it if you see any missing

04:54:18 BingoBoingo: IHB: So what exactly is the catalyst for shutting down? Did DDoS get expensive?

04:54:25 IHB: keeping the domain. not making any rash decsions now. we have some good backlinks. may redirect to new domain

04:54:27 BingoBoingo: Or something else?

04:55:16 IHB: no. IHB costs were minimal. i have been bootstrappping since end of 2013. in the behind been working on an API and now we are finally in the last phase of development. my efforts need to be there

04:55:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 200 @ 0.0089406 = 1.7881 BTC [-] {3}

04:56:47 BingoBoingo: IHB: So if you want to submit email in plaintext to myself and cazalla your piece. Make sure you include a GPG fingerprint and have the GPG key registered to a nick in the assbot wot

04:57:59 BingoBoingo: I will offer the standard disclaimer that s.qntr shares are as volatile as fuck and we have no revenue yet

05:06:56 BingoBoingo: !up IHB

05:29:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132350 @ 0.00026741 = 35.3917 BTC [+]

05:40:14 []bot: Bet created: "Yandex drop under Google before 2016" http://bitbet.us/bet/1134/

05:44:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123990 @ 0.00026791 = 33.2182 BTC [+] {3}

05:50:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51710 @ 0.00027089 = 14.0077 BTC [+]

06:00:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130919 @ 0.00026919 = 35.2421 BTC [-] {2}

06:07:10 mircea_popescu: !gettrust ihb

06:07:10 assbot: ihb is not registered in WoT.

06:07:19 mircea_popescu: get inb the wot eh.

06:20:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 222750 @ 0.00027875 = 62.0916 BTC [+] {2}

06:43:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167900 @ 0.00027313 = 45.8585 BTC [-]

06:48:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153200 @ 0.00028002 = 42.8991 BTC [+] {3}

06:52:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67650 @ 0.00027707 = 18.7438 BTC [-]

06:59:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00027752 = 3.7049 BTC [+]

07:20:03 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 8(Y):92(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 26.79172615 BTC. Current weight: 85,528.

07:20:05 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 145.16184834 BTC. Current weight: 65,659.

07:22:48 mircea_popescu: dude if that 700 bet comes out yes...

07:37:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158700 @ 0.00027707 = 43.971 BTC [-]

07:38:57 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntra sub for your consideration : http://dpaste.com/098PGV3.txt

07:38:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FqrDcp )

07:38:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 209300 @ 0.00027255 = 57.0447 BTC [-] {3}

07:38:58 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:40:02 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla same but for your key : http://dpaste.com/18Y9W7Z.txt

07:40:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FqrQwf )

07:40:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:40:19 mircea_popescu: haha this gpg shit is hot.

07:40:39 pete_dushenski: it's trendy shit for sure

07:41:07 pete_dushenski: soon there'll be smartphone apps and errything

07:41:38 pete_dushenski: and smartwatch apps that use your heartbeat to sign

07:41:52 cazalla: trendy lol, i gotta lug your shit to the other room to decrypt it! nothing trendy about that

07:42:05 Chillum: smartwatches are nice but I prefer my mechanical Omega

07:42:22 pete_dushenski: cazalla: wat do you mean ? walking is the trendiest shit going

07:42:34 pete_dushenski: it's all healthy and progressive and carbon neutral

07:42:39 Chillum: I walk, but only ironically

07:42:48 pete_dushenski: lol

07:42:58 pete_dushenski: so... backwards down the sidewalk ?

07:43:15 *: pete_dushenski does this on occasion

07:43:25 Chillum: backwards up the sidewalk

07:44:15 Chillum: need sleep, must leave computer

07:44:16 pete_dushenski: speaking of up the sidewalk, looks like our little town here is getting its very own funicular in the next couple years

07:44:47 pete_dushenski: Chillum: bon soir, man

07:46:53 pete_dushenski: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2015/04/09/fun-with-funiculars-sliding-into-edmontons-past/ << oh, turns out edmonton already had a funicalar... 100 years ago

07:46:55 assbot: Fun with Funiculars: Sliding into Edmonton’s Past | Edmonton Journal ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fqt8Y7 )

07:47:36 pete_dushenski: and the old one moved draught horses up and down the river valley

07:47:39 pete_dushenski: fuck me that's cool

07:48:51 mircea_popescu: funicular funiculaaah

07:49:05 mircea_popescu: largo'al factotum de la citta de la citta deeee laaaa ciiiiiittaa!

07:49:11 pete_dushenski: i feel a seinfeld joke coming on

07:49:29 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTSAZAHiOa8

07:49:30 assbot: Luciano Pavarotti - Funiculì Funiculà - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHrkar )

07:50:01 pete_dushenski: hah or that!

07:50:41 pete_dushenski: so today was ram upgrade day at the dushenski residence !

07:51:09 pete_dushenski: my numero uno is now rocking 32 gb of ecc ram

07:51:31 pete_dushenski: which is easily the most i've ever had in a desktop, so i'm quite looking forward to seeing how it performs

07:52:23 mircea_popescu: nb.

07:55:14 pete_dushenski: i was pleasantly surprised at how inexpensive memory is for these older machine.

07:55:25 pete_dushenski: about 1/4 of the newer ones

07:57:10 mircea_popescu: http://rs1img.memecdn.com/i-hate-it-when-i-sit-down-and-i-suddenly-turn-in-to-a-dog_o_703132.jpg

07:57:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHrXRe )

08:00:13 cazalla: pete_dushenski, http://qntra.net/2015/04/battle-for-the-right-to-play-old-multiplayer-games-take-shape/

08:00:14 assbot: Battle for the right to play old multiplayer games take shape. | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHsfYz )

08:00:44 mircea_popescu: an' this one's for fluffypony : http://rs1img.memecdn.com/Dont-Sit-On-The-Keybord-Ok_o_119368.jpg

08:00:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHskeR )

08:00:55 fluffypony: LOL

08:02:02 pete_dushenski: cazalla: nice!

08:07:53 pete_dushenski: http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/ << can't quite see the sense in a $500 laptop differentiated from its $100 donor by two pieces of *free* software

08:07:54 assbot: Libreboot X200 | The Gluglug ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHsUcp )

08:08:12 pete_dushenski: but hey, freedom isn't free, right ?

08:08:58 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski " Januseque " ?

08:09:26 pete_dushenski: two-faced roman god ?

08:09:30 pete_dushenski: janus ?

08:09:31 mircea_popescu: how about "Janus-esque god of Plasticated Profits" ?

08:09:54 mircea_popescu: you need that s in any case.

08:10:02 pete_dushenski: i have no objection to that improvement

08:12:56 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: speaking of tweaks, you have "gullbile" in your last article in footnote v

08:13:32 mircea_popescu: gull ahahaha

08:13:34 mircea_popescu: epic.

08:15:06 cazalla: janus in goldeneye too from memory

08:15:55 pete_dushenski: speaking of which, some buddies and i are convening next weekend to play goldeneye for n64

08:16:01 pete_dushenski: and mario kart

08:16:54 cazalla: ya know ya never could, never will fps on a console regardless of how nostalgic goldeneye may seem

08:17:00 cazalla: mario kart on the other hand..

08:18:22 pete_dushenski: 007 was the only fps i ever even tried to learn

08:18:28 pete_dushenski: the newer ones are too... fast

08:18:48 cazalla: pc master race for fps

08:19:15 pete_dushenski: that an f1 game ?

08:20:02 cazalla: no i mean pc is the master race with quake, n64 fps is the nigger with goldeneye

08:20:14 pete_dushenski: lolk

08:20:17 cazalla: or that halo shit with 640x320 res, aim assist, auto aim etc etc

08:20:43 pete_dushenski: i honestly don't give a shit about any of them

08:21:15 pete_dushenski: but it'll be a fun time with the boys

08:21:52 pete_dushenski: allow us to show a little of that competitive spirit we otherwise aim only at jobs and girls

08:22:14 pete_dushenski: and speaking of janus, for any car buffs reading the logs, there was a very limited production car built by german firm zundapp in the mid-1950's by this name

08:22:45 pete_dushenski: i saw it at a motormuseum in berlin 2-3 years ago, just trying to dig up the picture now

08:23:55 mircea_popescu: !up wyrdmantis

08:29:58 cazalla: but you can't be competitive on a console

08:30:19 cazalla: anyway, don't pay too close attention, stuck into 3rd beer already

08:31:16 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/1957-Zundapp-Janus-placard.jpg

08:31:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHuURP )

08:31:24 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/1957-Zundapp-Janus.jpg

08:31:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHuV8t )

08:31:46 pete_dushenski: had mp not written that little article today, i might've posted these on imgur lol

08:32:20 pete_dushenski: cazalla: tis all good, i see what you mean and i don't disagree

08:32:48 pete_dushenski: my pc gaming was just limited to starcraft and age of empires

08:33:27 pete_dushenski: why be the foot soldier when you can be the general in teh sky ?

08:36:19 mircea_popescu: !up The_Shrander

08:37:38 The_Shrander: thanks MP :)

08:37:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104900 @ 0.00027752 = 29.1118 BTC [+]

08:38:13 The_Shrander: hi to all, have you seen this? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3213nc/all_trezor_users_should_update_their_firmware_for/

08:38:16 assbot: All TREZOR users should update their firmware for protection against a physical attack - Extracting the Private Key from a TREZOR with a $70 Oscilloscope : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1FqDPty )

08:38:56 pete_dushenski: heh. i dun think anyone here really trusted trezors to begin with

08:39:18 pete_dushenski: though i think it was kako who bought a couple of them ? mebbe some others too.

08:40:21 pete_dushenski: they're sort of in the 'yubikey' camp of 'blackbox toy crypto that plugs into usb'

08:41:38 mircea_popescu: The_Shrander no, but it is kinda lulzy. in any case trezor had mixed reviews at best here.

08:41:39 mircea_popescu: !s trezor

08:41:40 assbot: 135 results for 'trezor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trezor

08:45:05 The_Shrander: very very lulz

08:48:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96162 @ 0.00027781 = 26.7148 BTC [+] {2}

08:48:28 wyrdmantis: mmm, i've made a mess with nicknames

08:51:37 mircea_popescu: !gettrust wyrdmantis

08:51:40 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user wyrdmantis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mircea_popescu/wyrdmantis | http://w.b-a.link/user/wyrdmantis

08:51:49 mircea_popescu: should be able to self up anyway

08:52:57 mircea_popescu: in other news, jailbait is jailbait-y. http://41.media.tumblr.com/82e27f84a791f636193e7fca23c634c5/tumblr_nepx0rpWAr1qm6pfzo1_1280.jpg

08:52:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FqGzY1 )

09:04:18 wyrdmantis: lol ethereum is almost scamready https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/milestones

09:04:19 assbot: Milestones - ethereum/go-ethereum · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQ5sde )

09:26:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44122 @ 0.0002814 = 12.4159 BTC [+] {2}

09:56:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50900 @ 0.00028123 = 14.3146 BTC [-]

10:07:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106450 @ 0.00028123 = 29.9369 BTC [-]

10:58:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 462000 @ 0.00028424 = 131.3189 BTC [+] {4}

11:14:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96400 @ 0.00028547 = 27.5193 BTC [+]

11:31:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172050 @ 0.00028439 = 48.9293 BTC [-] {2}

11:49:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129298 @ 0.00027633 = 35.7289 BTC [-] {4}

11:53:08 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 350 @ 0.00441308 = 1.5446 BTC [+] {2}

12:00:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 259500 @ 0.00027932 = 72.4835 BTC [+] {2}

12:02:54 mats: it moves

12:08:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220450 @ 0.00027529 = 60.6877 BTC [-] {2}

12:12:30 mats: http://www.usherald.com/maine-welfare-recipients-must-work-for-their-benefits/

12:12:32 assbot: This Is What Happened When Maine Forced Welfare Recipients To Work For Their Benefits  ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ps05pZ )

12:17:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.00028249 = 30.4948 BTC [+] {2}

12:25:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94706 @ 0.00028731 = 27.21 BTC [+] {2}

12:26:07 BingoBoingo: !up wyrdmantis

12:27:36 BingoBoingo: !gettrust assbot wyrdmantis

12:27:37 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user wyrdmantis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/wyrdmantis | http://w.b-a.link/user/wyrdmantis

12:27:50 BingoBoingo: !h

12:27:50 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

12:37:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134311 @ 0.00027088 = 36.3822 BTC [-]

12:43:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 253050 @ 0.00028784 = 72.8379 BTC [+] {4}

12:48:27 mike_c: I hate this: "I don't know that my pull request is the best way to handle it, but I thought it might poke the bear enough to move the conversation along" translation - my code is shit, but maybe it will annoy someone else enough that they will do it correctly.

12:49:45 mike_c: this is from the ethereum github repo. and have no fear buddy, they took your code.

13:05:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164900 @ 0.00028662 = 47.2636 BTC [-]

13:10:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 186350 @ 0.00028952 = 53.9521 BTC [+] {2}

13:11:11 BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/10/reports-troubles-webster-u%E2%80%99s-branch-campus-thailand << ?W.U.T. is an American university in name only,? Erickson wrote, adding that the top administrators there ?do not know what a real American university education consists of, and have no interest in finding out." He questioned whether any of them went to a "real American university in the first place."

13:11:14 assbot: Reports of troubles at Webster U.’s branch campus in Thailand | InsideHigherEd.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GwMSte )

13:18:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00028662 = 10.9202 BTC [-]

13:34:35 mats: http://www.illmatics.com/Understanding_the_LFH.pdf << windoze heap

13:34:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GwPXtj )

13:35:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.00028662 = 8.7562 BTC [-]

14:17:18 mats: http://blog.llvm.org/2015/04/fuzz-all-clangs.html

14:17:19 assbot: LLVM Project Blog: Simple guided fuzzing for libraries using LLVM's new libFuzzer ... ( http://bit.ly/1FuhyWE )

14:28:41 mircea_popescu: heh watching that s.mpoe is like daytime drama i swear.

14:35:11 mats: http://www.azimuthsecurity.com/resources/bh2009_mcdonald_valasek.pdf << this and the other link are the best windows heap exploitation papers ive read so far

14:36:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35761 @ 0.00028322 = 10.1282 BTC [-]

14:40:20 mats: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/05/24/a-data-driven-exploration-of-the-evolution-of-chess-match-lengths-and-outcomes/ via HN

14:40:22 assbot: Evolution of chess: Game lengths and outcomes | Randal S. Olson ... ( http://bit.ly/1FulpDd )

14:42:23 mircea_popescu: mats how much have you slept past week ?

14:42:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 85 @ 0.01455797 = 1.2374 BTC [+] {5}

14:44:15 mats: probs 3-4 hours a night

14:45:35 mircea_popescu: why is that ?

14:52:27 mats: work has been hectic

14:53:59 mircea_popescu: you know it's a major sign of early onset schizophrenia among other unsavory things ?

14:54:03 mircea_popescu: go get some sleep.

14:54:55 mats: maybe ill take a nap during lunch

14:55:42 mircea_popescu: how about a nice 12 hour undisturbed window ?

14:58:23 mats: ill give it a go. a couple family members have schizophrenia... no idea if its heritable but i should definitely be more careful

14:58:42 mike_c: <+mircea_popescu> you know it's a major sign of early onset schizophrenia among other unsavory things ? << unsavory things like parenthood..

14:59:05 mircea_popescu: it's not heritable but a weak indicator. and one of the prevailing theories is that it's kindled, ie, you could be fine but then you had to go stress it to all shit. 99% get ptsd, 1% actually gets schizo.

14:59:16 mircea_popescu: just a theory. nobody knows shit about their own head, let alone other peoples' anyway.

14:59:29 mircea_popescu: mike_c no see, it's not a sign of that, it's an effect of that. but yes :p

15:07:24 PeterL: mircea_popescu: you were looking for me?

15:07:58 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's not heritable but a weak indicator. and one of the prevailing theories is that it's kindled, ie, you could be fine but then you had to go stress it to all shit. 99% get ptsd, 1% actually gets schizo. << Kindling is the dominant theory among the credible people.

15:08:03 mircea_popescu: PeterL well scoopbot's dead ?

15:08:22 PeterL: I just restarted it, should show up any second now...

15:08:32 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo im not terribru persuaded myself. but srsly, "get some sleep" is probably the best medical advice ever invented.

15:08:39 mircea_popescu: above even "have a glass of water would you."

15:08:44 mircea_popescu: PeterL kk.

15:09:01 BingoBoingo: Get some sleep, drink some water, is all solid advice

15:09:21 mike_c: and get a less stressful job.

15:09:46 mircea_popescu: up to about 30something, a job no matter how stressful is no big deal as long as you actually sleep and eat.

15:10:03 mircea_popescu: and even skipping a day or two. but when it becomes week-chronic...

15:11:03 BingoBoingo: Cigarettes are my mental health plan.

15:11:24 mircea_popescu: this is the boon of late adolescence/early adulthood : that you can do any stressful job and you'll be fine. what you can't really do is slef-manage tho. which is kind of why i'm indignant over all the wastage sv/the us generally is doing to these eager kids making them "ceos" of "start-ups".

15:11:29 mircea_popescu: worst hr wastage conceivable.

15:11:34 mircea_popescu: but hey, not my country.

15:11:38 PeterL: I just started a new job this week, I am not sure how much time I will be able to spend here

15:11:55 mircea_popescu: PeterL have a preferred wakeup mechanism ?

15:12:33 PeterL: to wake me up?

15:12:50 mircea_popescu: say if scoopbot dies again or w/e.

15:13:00 mircea_popescu: some hot camho shows up wanting your babies.

15:13:18 BingoBoingo: !b 4

15:13:19 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2241Z8S.txt )

15:13:30 PeterL: she can have them, they are obnoxious and climb on me all the time

15:13:41 mircea_popescu: she can't have them till you stick it in her yo.

15:13:59 PeterL: oh, you mean unborn babies

15:14:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72450 @ 0.0002765 = 20.0324 BTC [-]

15:14:41 mircea_popescu: lol

15:14:45 mircea_popescu: Lieutenant Gary Mandich, who was one of the many attendees and alleged participants in the lewd activities, told media, "Everyone needs to seriously lighten up. What do they expect? This is Vegas baby! They call this symposium 'Tail' hook for a reason!"

15:14:45 mircea_popescu: His statement led to a wave of public outcry which sparked numerous protests and demonstrations at the gates of naval bases across the U.S.

15:14:48 mircea_popescu: these people are nuts.

15:15:14 mircea_popescu: someone seriously had the time to crash gate bases "across the us" because some people hooked up at the hookup convention in vegas ?

15:15:18 mircea_popescu: us needs more jobs stat.

15:16:29 PeterL: maybe they are all retired people living off investment income?

15:17:24 mircea_popescu: protesting soldiers fucking ?

15:17:34 BingoBoingo: The US cattle control system has become too advanced to for any new jobs to exist that make sense.

15:17:39 mircea_popescu: what, from like florida ?

15:19:38 BingoBoingo: Well, between walmart and reddit, what can USian people do to create any value without letting the cows loose?

15:19:56 mircea_popescu: you know, free ranging is a thing.

15:20:25 mircea_popescu: "After his return to the USS Midway, in port in Seattle for Seafair, then Tailhook president Captain Rick Ludwig pulled all air wing commanding officers, staff, and flag staff officers and debriefed them on initial reports of misbehavior and incidents of fisticuffs in the hallways and on the patio by the pool."

15:20:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44056 @ 0.0002765 = 12.1815 BTC [-]

15:20:39 mircea_popescu: ok, nm, it doesn't seem like what i had in mind after all.

15:20:41 PeterL: so I started this week at Perrigo, the company stock jumped up 25%, therefore investors must like me, right?

15:20:49 mircea_popescu: PeterL was your name in a pr ?

15:21:00 PeterL: ummm, no, I guess not

15:21:03 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Once you set the cows free they stop going to Walmart

15:21:20 mircea_popescu: notheywon't. and fuck walmart anyway, let it come up with its own business.

15:21:24 mircea_popescu: PeterL :p

15:21:30 PeterL: darn correlation / causation

15:21:31 mircea_popescu: had you said yes i'd have said "put it in your cv"

15:21:58 mircea_popescu: PeterL do they pay you in fourleaf clovers ?

15:22:08 PeterL: what?

15:22:27 mircea_popescu: isn't it an irish outfit ?

15:22:28 BingoBoingo: PeterL: You work for leprechauns

15:22:36 PeterL: no, but a perk is access to the company store to get cheap drugs

15:22:47 mircea_popescu: so when's the rave ?

15:22:59 PeterL: you rave with ibuprofen?

15:23:13 mircea_popescu: i actually knew a 15yo set that did.

15:23:39 PeterL: well, the company is "Irish", the CEO is here in michigan

15:24:06 BingoBoingo: PeterL: So he's a muslim leprechaun?

15:24:38 PeterL: muslims are all on the other side of the state, western MI is about as white as they come

15:25:23 mircea_popescu: women have no race either, that's a male thing.

15:25:49 PeterL: why don't women have race?

15:26:06 mircea_popescu: cuz men will fuck anything ?

15:28:15 PeterL: that makes no sense to me

15:28:45 mircea_popescu: it makes no sense to me either!

15:29:59 mircea_popescu: so check it out, Barbara Spyridon Pope, some woman briefly in a desk job at pentagon, refused Duvall McClellan Williams, Jr's whitewashing report on the tailhook thing. because this is a thing now, derpy bureaucrats can tell read admirals no. hey, "civil control of military".

15:30:07 mircea_popescu: after which her career abruptly ended and the guy resigned.

15:30:29 mircea_popescu: seems an extremely illuminating case to trace gender wars in us politics, this.

15:32:07 mircea_popescu: "Upon leaving government service, Pope joined Sunrise Senior Living as Director of Special Needs Assisted Living " << i wonder if they make her change adult diapers for the rest of her life now because of that incident.

15:36:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108389 @ 0.00028322 = 30.6979 BTC [+]

15:39:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69455 @ 0.00028426 = 19.7433 BTC [+] {2}

15:39:57 Adlai: fluffypony: your turd is even fatter than satoshi's

15:40:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48186 @ 0.00027226 = 13.1191 BTC [-]

15:41:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1094644 << ah that they seriously intend to "release"...

15:41:23 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 12:49:45; mike_c: this is from the ethereum github repo. and have no fear buddy, they took your code.

15:51:57 mod6: !t m s.mpoe

15:51:57 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00023945 / 0.00027016 / 0.00029109 (7922185 shares, 2,140.28 BTC), 7D: 0.00023945 / 0.00027154 / 0.00031364 (18190603 shares, 4,939.59 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00027992 / 0.00040484 (113178735 shares, 31,681.21 BTC)

15:52:03 mod6: ;;bc,stats

15:52:08 gribble: Current Blocks: 351544 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 1255 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48128497535.2 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.6653

15:52:30 mod6: ;;ticker

15:52:32 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 233.49, Best ask: 233.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 233.5, 24 hour volume: 31840.36691804, 24 hour low: 231.0, 24 hour high: 245.44, 24 hour vwap: None

16:03:41 mircea_popescu: nuts.

16:05:50 mod6: ya

16:16:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.01468924 = 2.9378 BTC [+] {6}

16:16:31 kakobrekla: nuts > bitcoin

16:16:43 mod6: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogos.jpg << cool! bringing these with you?

16:16:52 mircea_popescu: lol

16:32:25 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

16:32:45 ben_vulpes: <mike_c> yeah? you claiming to be gandhi now :) << mike_c gets it

16:33:41 ascii_field: now who wants to tell me why it took so long to do to 'trezor' what i suggested doing to it immediately upon learning of the circuit ?

16:33:48 ascii_field: 'for the love of god, montrezor!' (TM)

16:35:18 mike_c: um. obvious retort is obvious?

16:35:47 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1094362 << how so?

16:35:47 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 01:04:50; asciilifeform: because it declares war on microshit and unix, 'a pox on both their houses'

16:35:58 mike_c: (as i patiently wait for cardano)

16:36:01 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: it carries own stdlib

16:36:47 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: and even has own threading mechanism, scheduler.

16:36:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100300 @ 0.00028657 = 28.743 BTC [+]

16:37:22 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: as a result, it is actually much easier to - usably - plant ada on 'bare metal' (sans os) than nearly anything else

16:37:26 mircea_popescu: ascii_field because idiots are empowered now.

16:37:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: wai wat

16:37:36 mircea_popescu: they don't have to do anything! they're dragons!

16:38:36 mircea_popescu: i guess re-reading this is ambiguous. did you mean "do to trezor" as in, fixing ? or as in, exploiting ?

16:38:51 ascii_field: the latter

16:39:06 mircea_popescu: my bad then

16:39:11 ascii_field: (it is braindamaged in several fundamental ways, and it is foolish to speak of 'fixing')

16:39:19 mike_c: oh, me too. I retract my retort.

16:39:42 mircea_popescu: (of course, but then again...)

16:39:53 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/sooo-fetlife-is-butthurt/#comment-113588 << there.

16:39:53 assbot: Sooo... FetLife is butthurt. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwji5H )

16:42:11 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is the boon of late adolescence/early adulthood : that you can do any stressful job and you'll be fine. what you can't really do is slef-manage tho. which is kind of why i'm indignant over all the wastage sv/the us generally is doing to these eager kids making them "ceos" of "start-ups". << hence, >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094083

16:42:11 assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 20:13:46; ascii_field: can't speak for mats, but basic idea is that once you leave your meatwot, you are a fungible machine. this is a situation that, as mats put it, 'resets you to entry level' - and overwhelmingly favours the very young

16:47:36 ben_vulpes: apropos only of teakettles, trinque told me about some POS hardware returning a 418 TEAPOT in production

16:48:00 ascii_field: point of shit ?

16:48:01 ascii_field: piece of sale ?

16:48:19 ben_vulpes: piece of shit point of sale

16:48:43 mircea_popescu: lol

16:51:19 mircea_popescu: ascii_field expound on the linkage ?

16:53:23 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that it is not unreasonable to say 'i will not compete with 16 y.o. if i have any choice in the matter'

16:53:37 mircea_popescu: certainly.

16:53:42 ascii_field: microscope does not want to be a hammer

16:53:54 ascii_field: and isn't much good as one

16:53:54 mircea_popescu: depends, really. i readily compete with 16yo boys over 16yo girls.

16:53:59 mircea_popescu: doesnt go over that badly, either.

16:54:23 mircea_popescu: https://blog.qwant.com/loi-sur-le-renseignement/ << apparently the frenchies have their own search engine, and stuff.

16:54:24 assbot: Blog Qwant | Notre décryptage de la loi sur le renseignement ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwlGJq )

16:56:23 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the boys are biologically equipped only to be cannon fodder, really

16:57:37 mircea_popescu: hence, depends.

16:59:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32850 @ 0.00028657 = 9.4138 BTC [+]

17:06:42 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

17:07:44 ascii_field: !s breathe vacuum

17:07:45 assbot: 4 results for 'breathe vacuum' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=breathe+vacuum

17:09:50 mircea_popescu: omg wai so cryptic!

17:12:16 wyrdmantis: lol, Wence Cesares called “Patient Zero” of Bitcoin in Silicon Valley

17:12:18 wyrdmantis: http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/244859

17:12:19 assbot: Why Billionaire Investor Reid Hoffman Is Betting Big on Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwoFli )

17:14:18 mircea_popescu: is this for a new thing or still zappo ?

17:14:36 ascii_field: which, iirc, doesn't even work in usa...

17:15:04 mircea_popescu: ascii_field guy is very talented at basically anna nicole smith's job.

17:15:22 ascii_field: pr0n ?

17:15:47 mircea_popescu: more like entertaining lonely rich gentlemen.

17:15:54 ascii_field: l0l

17:16:06 mircea_popescu: i thought reid hoffman is the original model for that forever alone figurine no ?

17:16:14 ascii_field: he oughta do something more stimulating with the money. like have a golden toilet cast.

17:16:47 mircea_popescu: http://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/550af91ee4b096f94fa577cf/620x434.jpg <> http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/meme/images/9/91/4char-forever-alone-guy-high-resolution.png/revision/latest?cb=20110905121935

17:16:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwpkTR )

17:16:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwpkTV )

17:17:16 mircea_popescu: a) it's not really as much money as you imagine and b) i forget.

17:17:30 ascii_field: i mean, wtf. i actually tried to put some chumpatronium in the hopper and all i got was 'eggog'

17:17:48 mircea_popescu: wait wut ?

17:18:01 ascii_field: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg/400px-Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg

17:18:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwpxGq )

17:18:46 mircea_popescu: lol

17:18:50 mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?

17:18:57 mircea_popescu: oh, tried to use the site ?

17:19:02 ascii_field: aha

17:19:07 ascii_field: (a while ago)

17:20:04 ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14185641139150.jpg

17:20:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwpQB3 )

17:20:45 ben_vulpes: what. is. that.

17:21:05 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: elektronika mk-61

17:21:17 ascii_field: legendary programmable pocket calculator

17:21:18 ben_vulpes: but the dick and spear?

17:21:29 ascii_field: like i knew.

17:22:06 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: icon from forum, https://2ch.hk/pr/res/416689.html

17:22:09 assbot: Программирование - Решил на досуге заебенить ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwq2Ak )

17:22:13 ben_vulpes: every photo in b-a is like this. "here's this sort of illustrative image relevant to our conversation." "what lead to that photo being taken?" "like i could fucking know..."

17:22:18 mircea_popescu: <title>Attention Required! | CloudFlare</title>

17:22:21 mircea_popescu: herp. what is it ?

17:23:13 mircea_popescu: <h2 data-translate="why_captcha_headline">Why do I have to complete a CAPTCHA?</h2>

17:23:14 mircea_popescu: <p data-translate="why_captcha_detail">Completing the CAPTCHA proves you are a human and gives you temporary access to the web property.</p>

17:23:28 mircea_popescu: motherfucker corpspeak. they ask the questions, they fail to fucking answer.

17:23:35 mircea_popescu: that's not "why", motherfuckers.

17:24:05 mircea_popescu: that's "what do i get for". why is something entirely the fuck else, mentally stunted bunch of business school rejects.

17:25:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes here's one for you : http://38.media.tumblr.com/43f59756875c7c25d3f5eb69d51486ad/tumblr_nfi5h5II0v1t6aip4o1_500.gif

17:25:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IzTfwM )

17:25:34 mircea_popescu: subplot : why the fuck is the dude wearing pink panties.

17:25:47 ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14186615103850.jpg (cpu) ; https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14185751153750.png (sram close-up)

17:25:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IzTjfY )

17:26:07 ascii_field: all photos taken by enthusiasts

17:26:14 ascii_field: original design was lost in the collapse of su

17:26:27 ascii_field: and had to be laboriously restored, by folks who loved the machine to death

17:26:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93200 @ 0.00028657 = 26.7083 BTC [+]

17:26:38 ascii_field: the purpose of this was to create a bug-compatible emulator

17:26:51 ascii_field: (many beloved proggies, passed around on grid paper, used the cpu bugs)

17:26:51 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah, sure. 'zactly.

17:27:09 mircea_popescu: wait, there's more. http://40.media.tumblr.com/70c01db6e1107493d666d370769b6552/tumblr_n9yjs0ADuM1rhnc6uo1_1280.jpg

17:27:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IzTvMa )

17:27:29 ben_vulpes: amusingly, both of these can be pretty readily reasoned about

17:27:40 ben_vulpes: much more so than the calculator with dick and spear

17:28:04 ben_vulpes: people shooting pr0n, girl likes attention

17:28:12 ben_vulpes: panties are a great touch tho lol

17:28:14 ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14188936319390.jpg

17:28:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwqPkZ )

17:28:26 mircea_popescu: i thought the dickspear idea is pretty pervasive.

17:28:37 ascii_field: left hand: 'most popular prog. langs.' bottom left: 'but how about mk-61?'

17:28:40 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/31696eea7ab39fcbb93e43d3acda9be6/tumblr_nevt3bs2mS1tejsb9o1_1280.jpg ?

17:28:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwqX3J )

17:29:19 ascii_field: the font face is roughly cyrillic's equivalent of german 'blackletter'

17:29:24 mircea_popescu: (yes, yes, pr0n. but why the derpy teens in polo shirts!)

17:29:49 ben_vulpes: mis en scene?

17:30:10 ben_vulpes: *mise-en-scéne, i mean to say

17:30:27 mircea_popescu: one of those derpy "dating seminars" gone awry

17:31:18 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: https://2ch.hk/pr/res/416689.html#454485 << translation exercise

17:31:22 assbot: Программирование - Решил на досуге заебенить ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwrjYn )

17:31:31 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i can't get that site.

17:31:31 ascii_field: but it could almost have been written by mircea_popescu ...

17:31:36 ascii_field: l0l wut

17:31:44 mircea_popescu: cloudfail.

17:31:45 mircea_popescu: see above.

17:31:59 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/19C1P7K.txt << here ya go

17:32:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwrrHe )

17:32:26 mircea_popescu: heh it couldn't be written by mp. i never signed anon in my lyf.

17:32:33 ascii_field: other than it.

17:32:48 mircea_popescu: lol subhuman larvae!

17:33:05 mircea_popescu: ahahaha wretched parodies!

17:33:51 mircea_popescu: ah no. i don't despise prostitutes.

17:34:22 mircea_popescu: moreover, i hold actual whores in higher regard than most other professions. certainly i give social precedence to a whore over a us college professor.

17:34:41 mircea_popescu: i guess hating on hos kinda comes with russian culture huh.

17:35:50 mircea_popescu: быдлокодинга < ? bydlo-kodinga!

17:35:51 mircea_popescu: ajhahaha

17:36:30 mircea_popescu: perfect word this. "dude, stop with the bydlokodinga!" "did someone bydlokodinga libnss ?"

17:36:51 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

17:38:09 mircea_popescu: and btw ascii_field, is быдло ukr or ru ?

17:38:13 ascii_field: ru

17:38:29 mircea_popescu: also polish bydlo, same usage.

17:38:31 ascii_field: originally, roughly 'cattle' but archaicism and means something like what 'redneck' in usa

17:39:27 mircea_popescu: it means more like what redneck should mean.

17:39:45 mircea_popescu: nowadays redneck simply means "someone who doesn't think transexuals have a special gender and gay marriage is a thing"

17:40:50 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/cecc3c213c49633eba86ba638a56c311/tumblr_my65023EFp1s5egydo1_400.gif << this is like, THE picture of fucking societal decay. chick's having a lulzfit at guy who's too absorbed in gadget to do anything.

17:40:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwsNl9 )

17:41:08 Chillum: I think that law should not consider "gender" at all, leave it as a social construct

17:41:39 mircea_popescu: Chillum why would society consider law at all ?

17:42:01 mircea_popescu: i mean your proposal sounds sensible, but only if one (mistakenly) imagines law can exist sorta out of itself. it can't.

17:42:25 mircea_popescu: once law ceases to be an instrument of convenient social oppression, it ceases to matter.

17:42:47 mircea_popescu: yes, it shouldn't inconveniently oppress. but that does NOT mean it should not oppress at all. tho i see how that mistake is easy to make.

17:42:53 Chillum: What I mean is that just as the religion of two people is irrelevant for marriage in the eyes of the law, so should be gender

17:43:03 mircea_popescu: i know what you mean .do you know what i mean ?

17:43:09 Chillum: without some form of oppression humans will descend into violent anarchy

17:43:13 Chillum: not really

17:43:16 mircea_popescu: aha.

17:43:53 mircea_popescu: see, law is in and of itself meaningless and powerless. if it reflects deeply held societal beliefs, it is powerful. which is why it was powerful in the old christian days, pre 1000 ad.

17:44:09 mircea_popescu: it lost that pillar of support. but it reconstructed some sort of balance around the remainder.

17:44:21 mircea_popescu: then it lost gender. it's teetering, and i don't think it's any longer sustainable at all.

17:44:52 mircea_popescu: why would anyone obey the law ? it says nothing about their beliefs, it fails to make the world meaningful.

17:45:11 mircea_popescu: could as well obey this law as any other, and in the end none at all.

17:47:04 mircea_popescu: the entire "we're obeying the law because the law produces foodstamps" and "keeps the terrorists at bay" doesn't really look too functional at any rate.

17:47:17 mircea_popescu: certainly wasn't the last time this was tried.

17:47:42 ascii_field: --- translation. mega-paste warning ----

17:47:51 ascii_field: 3, 2, 1...

17:47:55 ascii_field: 'But what, specifically, remains for the poor students and wankers, who took up the notion that there is such a profession - "programmer" ? Yes, there is, but not in the sense that these larval untermenschen conceive of it. Some see in this role something just short of the demiurge, crafting the future; others see a good way to set up their life, secure their future, a stable income and career growth.

17:47:55 ascii_field: But the pathetic parody of a human does not grasp that it is not enough to have a cock's crest bachelor degree or to spoodge out a few pages of code at an olympiad, to become a programmer. In the course of this revelation, the lame abortus, reject of evolution, slowly begins to comprehend that the world is very much not as he imagined it.

17:47:56 ascii_field: The apprehension of one's inadequacy begins, of the futility of one's existence, the principal impossibility of fulfilling one's idiotic desires. But there is always a choice. If the first variant prevails, he will press on with self-improvement, the study of genuinely worthy technologies, on which there can be foundations for the creation of something better. And he will understand that no one needs him as a smart-arse.

17:48:03 ascii_field: Or what remains - the other variant - to dive into the common flow of the sewers, and take hold of a passing piece of shit and feed upon it for the rest of one's pathetic life. Some are satisfied with this, just as many are satisfied with the profession of the prostitute, the cleaner of latrines, a waiter in MacDuck, etc. But a more or less normal person begins to experience breakage in his value system, worldview;

17:48:08 ascii_field: thoughts concerning the futility of his existence begin to intrude upon him, of futility; old complexes sharpen, and flower into a full-blown psychological crisis...

17:48:11 ascii_field: Yes, once upon a time, the "programmer" was a serious engineering profession with a shade of elite status. In those years, genuine mastery of certain technologies was demanded from him, and this was not attainable by all. Whereas today any Downs-syntrome-autist can call himself a programmer, because he has mastered the basics of redneck-coding and will work for food. As for genuine professionals - like in many other

17:48:16 ascii_field: related fields - they are no longer in demand today. Therefore there is not much choice: sign for your supper by the latrine [ru prison parlance - transl. note] or silently rot in full consciousness of your total bankruptcy and futility of existence.'

17:49:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know you really should blog/link these things. srsly.

17:49:22 ascii_field: it's just a fscking translation

17:49:29 mircea_popescu: so ?

17:49:36 ascii_field: and i blogged about more or less same thing for 7+ yrs, to no effect

17:50:01 mircea_popescu: dude, let's burn the library of alexandria because nobody ever read it. i bet that's how it actually went down.

17:50:05 ascii_field: (in case this was not clear, the ru original was not mine, and was found by accident)

17:50:10 mircea_popescu: whjat the fuck difference does it make to the book how many read it?

17:50:24 mircea_popescu: just put it there so it can be found conveniently and forget about it.

17:50:31 mircea_popescu: there's no "higher purpose" or anything

17:51:13 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: don't get me wrong, i shall write again. and yes - for the archaeologists, as before. but presently cut among 1) dayjob 2) s.nsa 3) sleep,eat,...,write

17:51:43 mircea_popescu: my point is softer than that. specifically, it is that simply having put this there would not have tarnished your blog, but been smart an' convenient.

17:51:53 mircea_popescu: it's an article just fine.

17:52:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250300 @ 0.00028501 = 71.338 BTC [-] {2}

17:52:53 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to recycle it into your next mega-article if you feel like

17:53:23 mircea_popescu: "here's some shit i stole off a guy i know".

17:53:28 mircea_popescu: what am i, a sf writer ?

17:53:34 ascii_field: which he stole from some anon...

17:53:35 ascii_field: l0l

17:54:10 mircea_popescu: is this true btw ? i am sensing this trendwhere people go "real professionals are not in demand"

17:54:17 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, this seems untrue ?

17:54:21 ascii_field: i cited that thing merely because it is a compact statement of essentials of naggumism.

17:54:29 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is not untrue, unfortunately

17:54:36 ascii_field: for the reason which i tried to explain last night

17:54:38 ascii_field: about meat-wots

17:54:55 mircea_popescu: i am unconvinced. there must be more to it.

17:55:03 ascii_field: don't take my word for it.

17:55:59 ascii_field: !s deskilling

17:56:00 assbot: 4 results for 'deskilling' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=deskilling

17:56:24 ascii_field: (not sure if the phenomenon is presently discussed under than name, or discussed at all for that matter. but it does have a name.)

17:57:31 mircea_popescu: i suppose to the degree this phenomenon exists, it is driven by the feminization of the internet (the sort of retarded behaviour illustrated by that comment i quoted earlier).

17:57:52 ascii_field: nope. it is driven by perfectly legit economics

17:57:56 mircea_popescu: if this is true, which i still doubt but perhaps just as an artefact of my limied circle, then the pill is simply destruction of the legal protections.

17:58:01 ascii_field: same as the 'wriggleys gum' and plastification of industry

17:58:09 mircea_popescu: if a company can either secure its network or lose its ass... then the professional will be in demand.

17:58:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not if 'arse covering' works as well as 'secure'

17:58:35 mircea_popescu: if women have it, and "do what i mean" and "i should be safe whether im naked drunk or not", then yes, semiskilled shanonizers in microsoft garb everywhere.

17:58:45 mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, because evolutionary pressure.

17:58:56 mircea_popescu: makes no difference for a bankrupt corp why it's bankrupt. still out of sight.

17:59:23 ascii_field: evolutionary pressure knows how to lead to two places

17:59:26 ascii_field: adaptation

17:59:29 mircea_popescu: in any case, this would present excellent cause to disallow acces of women trying to appear *as women* in this field. either they learn how to be men or learn to live without participating in technology.

17:59:30 ascii_field: or extinction.

17:59:48 mircea_popescu: i must say im still broadly unconvinced by the entire thing.

18:00:09 mircea_popescu: chetty ^ give the foregoing a read would you.

18:00:11 ascii_field: let's narrow down -which- particular thing mircea_popescu is unconvinced by, before i answer

18:00:26 mircea_popescu: ascii_field that there is no serious demand for highly skilled computerizers

18:00:53 ascii_field: there -is- demand, but it is -extremely- meat-wot-gated

18:00:59 mircea_popescu: so it should be.

18:01:09 ascii_field: because of the sheer pressure of orcs at the gate and the paucity of the positions

18:01:19 mircea_popescu: this simply reflects stuff discussed all over fraudsters. why would it not be.

18:01:26 mircea_popescu: no, not because of that at all.

18:01:29 mike_c: i don't understand. maybe you are saying there is no demand for exactly what you want to do? there is plenty of demand for smart programmers.

18:01:34 ascii_field: but so narrowly tight to the extent that the practitioners have lost all negotiating leverage.

18:01:38 mircea_popescu: mike_c i thought so too.

18:01:43 mircea_popescu: wut ?!

18:01:44 mike_c: you could walk into google tomorrow and command an absurd salary

18:02:05 mike_c: or a dozen other companies. very limited wot necessary.

18:02:08 ascii_field: mike_c: entirely not the profession i was speaking of.

18:02:20 mircea_popescu: mike_c it's very dissonant for me because he seems to come from this place where exactly the opposite of what i see is true. backwards world of alf.

18:02:27 ascii_field: as different as 'wife' and 'prostitute'

18:02:30 ascii_field: even more so, arguably.

18:02:31 mircea_popescu: can't quite pin down wtf this is.

18:02:37 mircea_popescu: ascii_field specifically ?

18:02:47 mike_c: so be clear about the position you are looking for that doesn't exist?

18:03:28 ascii_field: mike_c: roughly, 'problem solver'

18:03:57 mike_c: what's an example of a problem you would be asked to solve in this position.

18:04:01 ascii_field: i can say quite securely that no one at 'google' is employed in this capacity.

18:04:20 ascii_field: mike_c: 'we have xxxxx and have not the slightest idea what to do about it'

18:04:22 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: doesn't want to "work". he wants to "think".

18:04:32 mircea_popescu: "problem solver" is either a) cocky bs major from minessotta (we had examples ridiculed in here) or else b) collin powell.

18:04:41 mike_c: that's not an example :) what's a xxxxx.

18:04:41 mircea_popescu: which did you mean ? and neither of these are programmers.

18:04:44 ascii_field: or, more related to my current gig, 'we have yyyyyy and wish to know why it was made, by whom, what it does, it fell out of flying saucer'

18:04:58 mike_c: ok, so this is.. a circuit board?

18:05:06 ascii_field: mike_c: occasionally

18:05:09 mircea_popescu: ascii_field "here's this binary, find out what it does" ?

18:05:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144250 @ 0.00028731 = 41.4445 BTC [+] {3}

18:05:27 ascii_field: ^ most of it, in my particular case

18:05:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_field so this would be in demand either a) by the nsa or else b) independent work a la s.nsa

18:05:47 mircea_popescu: why is this counterintuitive ?

18:06:05 mike_c: seems also flavors of this job would be present at security firms.

18:06:18 mircea_popescu: except he doesn't want tyo compete with the 16yos those guys hire.

18:06:29 mircea_popescu: and i understand WHY they hire the way they do, with contests etc.

18:06:31 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it will make more sense if i reveal that

18:06:35 mircea_popescu: whole security profession is done on a shoestring

18:06:39 ascii_field: the fact that most of what i do is not brute labour

18:06:43 mircea_popescu: recall trhe $100 top prize.

18:06:46 mike_c: not whole, just most. like any other field.

18:06:49 ascii_field: but invention of tools to speed up the process

18:07:05 mircea_popescu: ascii_field your problem is that you're premarket in that.

18:07:07 ascii_field: and enable particular flavours of reverse engineering which are otherwise impossible

18:07:15 mircea_popescu: like invention of tools to make aeroplanes safer in 1915

18:07:22 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

18:07:31 ascii_field: i'm afraid that i cannot say more without breaking oath to the personal friends for whom i carry out this work.

18:07:41 mircea_popescu: ...

18:07:50 mircea_popescu: did he just bitch about meatbased wots FROM INSIDE ?

18:07:51 mike_c: it sounds like you've got the job you want. so what's the problem? you need more jobs?

18:08:00 mircea_popescu: alf needs a beating.

18:08:01 ascii_field: mike_c: say you have a boat

18:08:06 ascii_field: nice, aye ?

18:08:11 ascii_field: but what if it goes down

18:08:11 mike_c: money pit, but ok.

18:08:19 mike_c: see, i told you it was a money pit.

18:08:22 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:08:30 mircea_popescu: you considered it, eh mikey!

18:08:36 ascii_field: and if mast breaks off in the storm

18:08:39 ascii_field: it is a small boat.

18:09:09 mircea_popescu: for your peace of mind : the last time a mast broke off in a storm the year was 1715.

18:09:30 mike_c: idk.. you are looking for a very specialized type of job. I don't think you'll get far complaining there aren't a lot of them.

18:10:00 ascii_field: mike_c: what i did before, was entirely else - high-performance computing for chemical modelling

18:10:06 mircea_popescu: ascii_field btw, how about you get them personal friends in the wot and start a something.

18:10:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: diametric is in wot

18:10:15 mircea_popescu: the sluts are not gonna fuck themselves.

18:10:19 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the other fella lost his key

18:10:21 mike_c: yeah, build your next boat.

18:10:21 ascii_field: i think

18:10:58 ascii_field: but they're the kind of folks with offspring, mortgages, etc.

18:11:14 mircea_popescu: incidentally : if your boat breask "by itself" nudge nudge grin grin, you can go back to biochem.

18:11:20 mircea_popescu: you have any fucking idea how desperate those guys are ?

18:11:24 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: actually

18:11:26 mircea_popescu: sheeet, they even took bugpowder in.

18:11:30 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: why do you suppose i'm not there

18:11:35 ascii_field: the field died.

18:11:43 mircea_popescu: no it didn't. it's back.

18:11:45 ascii_field: most of the pharma folks closed down r&d entirely.

18:11:51 ascii_field: it is 'obama-back' not back.

18:12:00 mircea_popescu: it's back, baby.

18:12:04 mike_c: but the safety net is still there. regardless of that, you could get a high paying job in software. just not one you want.

18:12:19 mike_c: so work on your own goddamn boat with the confidence you won't end up on the street.

18:12:34 mircea_popescu: tbh i suspect he uses this as a motivator,

18:12:40 mircea_popescu: so...

18:12:55 ascii_field: high-paying job that kills the mind is a suicide.

18:13:08 mike_c: right, which is why you should build your own boat...

18:13:10 mircea_popescu: hey, lemme tell you something.

18:13:22 mircea_popescu: list of things slavegirls think aforehand "kill the mind" ? 559876985975 items.

18:13:28 mircea_popescu: list of things actually killing the mind ? 0, so far.

18:13:31 mircea_popescu: i haven't found any.

18:14:00 mike_c: i think you are unqualified in that field. the wrong job is pretty mind numbing, especially if you don't see the path away from it.

18:14:10 mircea_popescu: intelligent person can not stay unqualified.

18:14:12 ascii_field: i spent ~3 yrs, fresh from school, actually honest-programming-for-money

18:14:14 mircea_popescu: ever. no matter the field.

18:14:16 ascii_field: will never get the iq points back.

18:14:19 ascii_field: it is palpable.

18:14:23 mircea_popescu: no it's not.

18:14:27 mike_c: s/unqualified/inexperienced/

18:14:31 ben_vulpes: that's just aging, asci

18:14:43 mircea_popescu: and as nubbins would point out, not doing enough whippets.

18:14:48 mircea_popescu: or doing too many. i forget which.

18:14:52 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: how much did you age from 22-25 ?

18:14:56 ben_vulpes: about 3 years

18:15:31 ben_vulpes: did applied thermofluids during that time. could feel the slowdown hit.

18:15:55 mircea_popescu: im i the only guy too absorbed in self-love to notice this phenomenon ?

18:16:02 ascii_field: mircea_popescu sleeps ad libitum

18:16:06 mircea_popescu: i was fucking dumb at 22, and less dumb but still fucking dumb at 25.

18:16:14 ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings.

18:16:14 mircea_popescu: not by "normal" terms, but retrospectively it grates.

18:17:01 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is there a difference between how smart/dumb one is and how quickly or slowly one learns?

18:17:35 mircea_popescu: depends ben_vulpes. the problem chiefly is that as the mental models get much better, learning speed collapses.

18:18:06 ben_vulpes: "this notion is strongly similar to these other notions i'm already familiar with, so i'll integrate it more quickly"?

18:18:09 mircea_popescu: of course this could be backed in my case by a solid wall of "i don't have to do anything i don' want to do"

18:18:35 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes much deeper than that. like "i readily see THE REAL REASON this is so, so i can skip eighteen paragraphs worth of confused "explicatory" nonsense

18:18:42 mircea_popescu: that a lesser brain would have fucked with for eight weeks"

18:19:21 mircea_popescu: and yes, probably the 22 me would have gotten through the fucking with phase in seven weeks and it'd take me 9 now if i tried it.

18:19:42 mircea_popescu: but im not going to because i see wtf that is freom a mile away, including the gender of the author and her parenting errors in her own kids.

18:24:10 mircea_popescu: anyway. i wouldn't want to go back to being 20 anymore than i'd want to re-take kindergarten.

18:28:11 ascii_field: 'knowing what parts to skip' is -the- wunderwaffen.

18:29:34 ascii_field: but this is a rather separate component of effective intelligence

18:29:37 mircea_popescu: for sure.

18:29:38 ascii_field: like the tires of a car

18:29:48 ascii_field: the spiffiest tires will not turn 'trabant' into 'mazerati'

18:29:53 ascii_field: though opposite - sure.

18:30:02 mircea_popescu: that's a good approach to explain it : imagine you can disqualify bad teachers earlier. well... that's definitely saving time.

18:30:23 ascii_field: 'the eagle never lost so much as when studied from the crow' or what was it

18:30:28 mircea_popescu: exactly.

18:30:43 mircea_popescu: another approach to it is to point out that human brains leak like a fucking sieve.

18:30:50 mircea_popescu: as you tighen things up, you crash less often

18:31:01 mircea_popescu: if you crash less often, you need less computer time to do the same work.

18:31:27 mircea_popescu: so : better mental models, less domain lossage - > mega shrinkage of time and effort required.

18:31:43 mircea_popescu: perhaps the cpu also gets tired, but the rate of loss due to that has not yet been apparent, at least to me.

18:31:47 ascii_field: 'notation is worth 80 iq point' (TM)

18:31:53 mircea_popescu: quite.

18:32:11 ascii_field: and to this well-known maxim i will add mine, 'giving a fuck about the problem is worth 100 iq points'

18:32:20 mircea_popescu: hence the earlier "solid wall"

18:32:53 mircea_popescu: see, and this is a FINE example of what i mean by "leak like a sieve". your observation was in fact accounted for in my model. because i hadn't leaked it. because it doesn't leak there.

18:32:59 ascii_field: the real reason i will not compete with the 16 y.o. is not stamina per se, but that i cannot trick my brain into actually caring

18:33:29 mircea_popescu: ascii_field that gets extremely easier once you fuck his gf. you notice the subtle difference between the same object as he perceives it, and as it is.

18:33:40 ascii_field: this is why i often say that in buenos aires i would have to learn shoemaking or the like

18:33:41 mircea_popescu: then it suddenly becomes fascinating, like a puzzle of sorts.

18:33:49 ascii_field: some sort of work that does not demand too much mental presence

18:34:02 mircea_popescu: get a bike sharpen knives.

18:34:11 ascii_field: aha that was what i was thinking of

18:34:14 ascii_field: as in that photo.

18:34:52 ascii_field: i'm not yet sold on the fact of that boy's existence being more fun than american jail.

18:34:58 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

18:35:02 mircea_popescu: wha happened to your key yo

18:35:03 gabriel_laddel: thank you

18:35:15 gabriel_laddel: it isn't handy atm

18:35:21 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: it is palpable. << Yep. Let's say, for example that you learn perl. Nothing you learn has any use outside of... writing perl. If you learn javascript, java, C++, scala etc. idem. The web and these related "technologies" are going away. All of the effort poured into learning them is wasted.

18:35:38 mircea_popescu: but he never learned any of them in THAT sense.

18:35:51 mircea_popescu: there's a guy who learns and his learning is wasted effort. there's a different guy who learns for sport.

18:35:51 gabriel_laddel: Urbit is probably a good example for what I think stas is discussing. You can get paid very well so long as you are very active doing nothing.

18:35:55 mircea_popescu: da fuck do i care latin's dead ?

18:35:56 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: there is also such a thing as the mental equivalent of stretched arse-rape sphincter

18:36:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field doubt it

18:36:30 mircea_popescu: for one thing, contrary to common belief, well used holes get better, not worse. woman is not made out of soap.

18:36:35 mircea_popescu: for the other thing, the brain truely is plastic.

18:36:38 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: learning latin is very different from learning $random-african-grunt-lang

18:36:42 ascii_field: what i am speaking of is the effect i observed where folks learn to like fundamentally uninteresting concepts.

18:36:46 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how do you know this ?

18:36:49 ascii_field: because they get off on the flourishes.

18:36:55 ascii_field: e.g., c++.

18:36:59 mircea_popescu: but these might have been broken before

18:37:12 gabriel_laddel: because some of the $random-african-gruntlangs don't have any means to describe the future or past.

18:37:27 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: ^

18:37:47 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you're on very slippery ice sheet there. i'll save you the egg and point out that you can't form an apriori representation of why X model is no good.

18:37:54 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

18:38:18 *: ascii_field is a believer in sapir-whorf to the extent that he very much observed the braindamage caused by imprinting on certain programming concepts, in a great many people.

18:38:30 mircea_popescu: "imprinting" is pre-speech learning.

18:38:36 mircea_popescu: one really should take control of that stuff.

18:39:01 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: nonsene. We know any programming language that doesn't allow the operator to manipulate its own ast programmatically is going to waste the operator's time.

18:39:13 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: ascii is discussing knowns.

18:39:19 ascii_field: 'imprinting' not in the strict zoological sense, but in that of having encountered a concept during 'formative years' when a fella is figuring out wtf 'a computer is'

18:39:56 gabriel_laddel: ^ I never would have thought of presentation systems unless I happened upon ascii_field's blog.

18:40:12 gabriel_laddel: HTML/CSS/SWING/AWT ruined me.

18:40:38 ascii_field: i've been fighting a largely losing battle for many years, attempting to convince folks to imagine - in their spare time - that a computer is not necessarily von neumann and the 50 yrs of shit soup

18:41:49 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: actually, re-reading your last message - isn't that really an argument against abstraction period?

18:41:50 gabriel_laddel: which...

18:42:02 ascii_field: i will confess that it took me retardedly long time to understand that my hypothetical rebellion against the soup cannot be funded or organized for some very fundamental reasons

18:42:21 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: nonsense.

18:42:23 ascii_field: (short version - it is too much like the proverbial 'mars voyage' - counter-economic leap.)

18:43:39 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: Sometime in the next 48 hours I'm going to drop some information in here regarding the #b-a distro, and when finished with that move on to finding funding again.

18:43:55 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: the type of funding necessary cannot be 'found'

18:44:08 ascii_field: it isn't hiding somewhere in the jungle

18:44:40 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: we've already discussed this. I'm for doing it piecemeal because there are no other options.

18:44:51 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: don't delude yourself that you are doing 'it'

18:45:00 ascii_field: you are doing another thing, spray-painted to resemble 'it'.

18:45:04 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: yep.

18:45:10 ascii_field: because 'it' does not come into pieces.

18:45:40 ascii_field: and it cannot be done under the thumb of vc sc4mz0rz

18:45:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144647 @ 0.00028761 = 41.6019 BTC [+]

18:46:09 gabriel_laddel: I can't remember your exact words, but I think you said in here once "my time would have been better spent putting together a demo than blogging"

18:46:53 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: to avoid rehashing ancient thread for a fifth time, stuck at the realization that reversing xilinx is futile.

18:47:20 ascii_field: interested readers can find the threads.

18:47:52 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel for one thing, natural languages can not be modelled in terms of computer langs.

18:47:55 mircea_popescu: the latter are computable.

18:48:29 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: iirc your argument was "it isn't worthwhile because if you succeed you'll not have enough of them to do anything interesting with"

18:48:47 mircea_popescu: and no, it's not an argument against abstraction period. it's an argument against using abstractive methods outside of their domain of definition

18:48:55 mircea_popescu: which is what "not leaking" is, in mathematical terms.

18:49:28 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: not exactly. even if you could secure an infinite supply of the particular fpga, it turns out that they are not actually very general. in that you cannot efficiently implement muller c-gates in them.

18:49:57 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: o. I thought that you could if they have an entirely known design?

18:49:58 ascii_field: (before anyone spits back the old paper re: the fact of c-gates implemented on xilinx fabric - go and see how many of them you can fit. and how much room left for interconnects.)

18:50:10 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: could do -something- but not -something worth doing-

18:51:28 ascii_field: nor am i especially interested in building yet another computer with passive memory.

18:51:47 ascii_field: memory as a device that just sits there, is a 20th c. idiocy.

18:52:28 mircea_popescu: what'd you have it do ?

18:52:36 ascii_field: bits expensively stored as charge on si ought to be available for computing asynchronously.

18:53:56 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what'd you have it do << a number of things, which resolve to 'the contents ending up where needed by dependency-graph without being asked every time'

18:53:59 mircea_popescu: if you do that the current addressing schemes would never work

18:54:11 ascii_field: the current addressing schemes are retarded

18:54:15 mircea_popescu: ie, you'd end up with half the space or more taken up by indexes

18:54:27 mircea_popescu: but i have no doubt this is correct, chiefly because that';s how the brain works.

18:54:37 mircea_popescu: incidnetally - would you also have the selective inhibition design ?

18:54:43 ascii_field: certainly

18:54:50 ascii_field: most of it does not need to be addressible at all

18:55:15 mircea_popescu: aha.

18:55:57 mircea_popescu: yeah, for none of this is any of the current toolchain useful, from plant to emacs.

18:56:01 mircea_popescu: maybe the emacs.

18:56:13 mircea_popescu: but this is good news : new stuff is cheaper to build than retooling old stuff.

18:56:29 ascii_field: only 'useful' to the extent a lathe from newton's time was useful to creating today's.

18:57:56 ascii_field: and i could have easily built all of this by 25 y.o. if martians had landed and given me the means.

18:58:14 ascii_field: but that's not how it works

18:59:00 mircea_popescu: i have my doubts.

18:59:18 ascii_field: sure, could have tripped and fell to death in the bath.

18:59:48 mircea_popescu: your first estimates are horrid, historically :D

19:00:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: largely because i am not mircea_popescu and not in control of the variables.

19:01:02 mircea_popescu: im just saying, alt-universes aren't much of a guide for anything.

19:01:17 mircea_popescu: be happy if you manage to ever actually make it, or at least nudge towards it. 25 or 55.

19:01:28 ascii_field: did not say that it is a definite guide (to what? l0l)

19:01:43 ascii_field: but that i knew precisely what must be done to make a computer a tolerable thing, most of a decade ago.

19:01:45 mircea_popescu: ascii_field> and i could have easily built all of this by 25 y.o. <<

19:02:04 mircea_popescu: well... maybe. practice has a theory all of its own

19:02:16 mircea_popescu: in other news, here's a ben_vulpes scene. http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_letr2hFxlq1qe3i9to1_1280.jpg

19:02:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IAak9P )

19:02:37 mircea_popescu: my question is, where did the guy find condoms that small.

19:03:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94300 @ 0.00028789 = 27.148 BTC [+]

19:03:54 Chillum: I predict that in 25 years computer software will be full of bugs and vulnerabilities

19:04:05 Chillum: and for all eternity until computers cease to exist

19:04:22 ascii_field: ^ which could be sooner than expected

19:04:55 ascii_field: the gurl's expression !!!

19:04:59 Chillum: well I have a stash of low wattage computers and some solar panels

19:05:00 ascii_field: she is thinking, so intently

19:05:09 Chillum: so unless they are taken away or destroyed I will have something

19:05:09 ascii_field: 'is goldbach's conjecture true ???'

19:05:19 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/350a2def4fc98d6a2ac1c3e2ddb2aa86/tumblr_nb9gz1n6B21rnlorio1_500.gif << have another one then alf. sorry about the one you had to return.

19:05:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ax3YcE )

19:05:25 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

19:05:32 mircea_popescu: Chillum is a prepper !?

19:05:34 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: I'll note that without comprehensive design documents others have to retrace your steps entirely and anyone who is a fan of your work is running on grey goo pipe dreams.

19:05:44 Chillum: mircea_popescu: gold, silver, equipment

19:05:57 mircea_popescu: seriously ?

19:05:59 Chillum: not prepared to live in the forest or anything

19:06:18 Chillum: I expect currency failure

19:06:23 mircea_popescu: wouldn't just keeping a bunch of drug dealers (actual kind, not the derps) on your rolodex work better for the purpoise ?

19:06:23 ascii_field: i call ^ this style of prep 'tomb goods'

19:06:27 Chillum: which will result in a desperation for any trade unit

19:06:30 ascii_field: as what egyptians did.

19:06:36 mircea_popescu: ascii_field same idea.

19:06:39 ascii_field: leaving goodies for one's killers to pick up.

19:07:06 Chillum: the only drugs I am stocking are antibiotics

19:07:12 mircea_popescu: not items. people.

19:07:36 Chillum: I prefer to deal with other types of people

19:07:37 mircea_popescu: i am perhaps the only one here that has actually gone through a collapse, and if that's worth for anything - goods aren't helpful.

19:07:42 Chillum: or none at all if it is an option

19:08:04 mircea_popescu: they CAN be, but they can also not be, and it's hard to know aforehand.

19:08:17 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-04-2015#1090204

19:08:17 assbot: Logged on 07-04-2015 00:10:01; mircea_popescu: just like having a car doesn't alow having gasoline. it's true that often people who have cars also independently have gasoline, but the two are fundamentally unrelated, and there is such a thing as the fool's breakdown, ie, car's outta gas on the side of hte road.

19:08:19 mircea_popescu: wots on the other hand... can only be helpful.

19:08:30 Chillum: I know during the collapse in Zimbabwe people went to the rivers to collect gold dust and pooled it to have food flown in from out of country

19:08:48 Chillum: though a global collapse would be a different story

19:08:52 mircea_popescu: Chillum did you read about it on wikipedia ?

19:09:05 Chillum: it was a documentary

19:09:09 mircea_popescu: but you see what i mean ?

19:09:29 Chillum: I have not personally experienced such a situation

19:09:47 mircea_popescu: nor have you read stuff written by people outside of this particular cultural space.

19:10:00 Chillum: I read a journal from a woman in Germany when they had their hyperinflation. She was selling the links from her gold chain one at a time

19:10:05 mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as group delusion. that's how the french ended up with the urinals.

19:10:07 Chillum: trading that is

19:10:28 mircea_popescu: oh, the weimar stuff ? yeah that was incredibly disciplined.

19:10:39 mircea_popescu: no "snipers in street" type of situation.

19:10:53 Chillum: I read that the banks stopped serving accounts but still operated safe deposit boxes

19:11:03 Chillum: not that I trust SDBs for more than a backup stash

19:11:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, ima bbl.

19:12:10 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:12:40 ascii_field: Chillum: consider the question of what kind of social structure has to be in place for the gold chain, etc. to remain yours to trade

19:12:49 ascii_field: rather than ripped from your fresh corpse by whoever.

19:13:36 ascii_field: or the absurdity you were asked to believe, that villagers could have 'food flown in' in exchange for collectively 'picking up gold flakes'

19:14:12 Chillum: the idea behind broken bits of jewellery is that instead of coins that make you look rich it seems like you are selling petty amounts of scrap

19:14:34 Chillum: I have a bag of damaged rings, half a pair of earrings, links that sort of stuff

19:14:55 Chillum: the fact is that anyone with enough resources to survive will be a target

19:15:01 Chillum: regardless of how they can afford those resources

19:15:42 ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit'

19:16:16 ascii_field: there was once an engineer who occupied himself with the design of a kind of bathyscaph, a sort of 'mecha' suit in which one could survive being beaten and bitten by bears.

19:16:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163100 @ 0.00028789 = 46.9549 BTC [+]

19:16:26 Chillum: I don't know why you think it is absurd for a large number of people to be able to pull enough gold out of the ground to get an air drop

19:16:40 Chillum: you can make decent bank panning by hand if you work all day long for a week

19:16:48 ascii_field: Chillum: it is quite plausible to a large group of people to pull gold out of the ground

19:16:52 ascii_field: except that it is done in gulag

19:17:06 ascii_field: and not for airdrop, but for a little gruel and another day of not being shot and thrown to the dogs.

19:17:39 Chillum: I am not sure that happened during the Zimbabwe collapse

19:17:52 Chillum: it was for wheat mostly

19:18:04 Chillum: I suppose you can make gruel from wheat

19:18:17 Chillum: though traditionally it is hemp seeds, and is actually really good food

19:18:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133930 @ 0.00028993 = 38.8303 BTC [+] {2}

19:19:20 ascii_field: Chillum: point being that collapse leads to a trade in slaves without necessarily pausing for long at gold chains.

19:19:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 379270 @ 0.00029122 = 110.451 BTC [+] {5}

19:19:42 ascii_field: slaves after much preliminary culling via natural processes

19:20:04 Chillum: my point is the historically having gold has helped people in bad times

19:20:24 ascii_field: Chillum: familiar with the fact that jars of roman gold, silver are often found even now ?

19:20:30 ascii_field: they did not help their owners.

19:20:32 Chillum: unless people find out you have it... I really shgould not be telling you guys about my gold!

19:20:40 ascii_field: this is the universal explanation for buried treasure, incidentally

19:20:53 Chillum: even today people bury treasure and die without recovering it

19:21:10 ascii_field: Chillum: mandatory 'buried treasure' thread on #b-a >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402

19:21:10 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom

19:21:12 Chillum: people get rich enough that they don't need to delve into their stash then they die without telling anyone

19:21:18 *: trinque reaches the top of the logs

19:21:19 ascii_field: ^ reqd. reading

19:21:41 Chillum: I wish I had a satoshi for everything in the channel that was required reading

19:22:02 trinque: ascii_field: re: earlier thread, seems like it calls for a lab attached to a (perhaps unrelated) other business

19:22:03 ascii_field: Chillum: read it. and understand that the amount of gold that is -yours- is the amount that fits in your body cavities - and, with modern techonology, not even this.

19:22:16 trinque: google is an ad company, gets to work on self driving cars and whatever else

19:22:44 ascii_field: trinque: this fails because the subject of the thread is - as i firmly believe - necessarily the work of -one mind.-

19:22:47 ascii_field: it does not corporatize.

19:23:18 Chillum: well as far as compact wealth that is fungible goes it cannot be beat. Bitcoins are great if there is still an internety

19:23:30 trinque: ascii_field: so corporatize the "chumpatron", not the lab, and own both

19:23:37 Chillum: it traverses changes in currencies

19:23:45 Chillum: you can go from nation to nation and it have value

19:24:00 Chillum: you can only carry so much survival supplies with you

19:24:58 Chillum: pure gold can be tested by a blowtorch, if you make it glow red any alloys will result in bluing, pure gold will not change color

19:25:45 Chillum: (bluing is the discoloration metals show when heated)

19:26:22 trinque: ascii_field: my observation is that very intelligent people often overlook lower hanging fruit because it's uninteresting

19:26:54 trinque: to pull an example out of my ass, there are loads of these "managed firewalls" in american businesses

19:26:58 trinque: restaurants, shops etc

19:27:11 trinque: they're all rubbish, and all certainly horribly insecure

19:27:44 trinque: you could build a product that's an order of magnitude better than what they offer in your sleep

19:28:14 Chillum: I love low hanging fruit

19:28:48 ascii_field: trinque: so corporatize the "chumpatron", not the lab, and own both >> see my comment to mircea_popescu >> http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-owning-things/#comment-113503

19:28:48 assbot: On owning things on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1axaWOZ )

19:29:01 ascii_field: the last paragraph.

19:29:51 ascii_field: trinque: i can't speak for you, but i cannot build anything whatsoever in my sleep.

19:30:18 trinque: only so many hours in a day

19:30:40 ascii_field: trinque: i presently do something very vaguely similar to what you suggested, working for something that could be described as an antivirus firm. and it eats most of my stamina.

19:30:41 trinque: still going after weak enemies first seems a good way to start anything

19:31:06 trinque: ascii_field: yeah, plus maybe signing away certain rights to what you produce? (I'd hope not, but it's common)

19:32:11 ascii_field: trinque: not like i need any of it for anything elsewhere

19:33:25 Chillum: anti-virus: https://xkcd.com/463/

19:33:26 assbot: xkcd: Voting Machines ... ( http://bit.ly/1axcbxu )

19:33:50 ascii_field: aha.

19:34:31 ascii_field: the basic idea of the thread is that no one is willing to pay - as in, -really- pay - for non-retarded things

19:34:53 ascii_field: it's rather like being a doctor who caters specifically to alcoholics

19:34:57 Chillum: retarded sells, just look at the state of movies

19:35:01 ascii_field: but he is not permitted to tell them to stop drinking.

19:35:01 funkenstein_: and the payee decides what that means i suppose?

19:35:52 ascii_field: and now imagine that this is the only kind of doctor there is.

19:35:55 funkenstein_: good evening *tips hat*

19:37:46 trinque: ascii_field: sounds like the kind of thing you'd need an arms race and a benefactor on one side to produce

19:38:41 trinque: if you can't create the product yet maybe the task is to create the customer?

19:38:49 ascii_field: trinque: arms races don't necessarily create long-term thinking.

19:38:59 ascii_field: benefactor would need a time horizon of 500 years at least.

19:39:27 ascii_field: trinque: again can't speak for you, but i can't create the customer any more than can create the weather.

19:41:51 trinque: ascii_field: dunno the answer, but the question would be how you increase the visibility of the problem to those that have resources to fund the thing, but don't currently care

19:42:35 trinque: say I'm the firewall company, I'd not only make my thing, I'd spend money punching holes in everyone else's products all day

19:42:57 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:43:08 ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here

19:43:33 ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead.

19:43:59 ascii_field: the only extant analogue of this is the multigenerational starship concept

19:44:41 funkenstein_: seven generations is said to be goal for those who would claim to think long term

19:44:59 ascii_field: the actual number is uninteresting

19:45:02 ascii_field: and unknowable.

19:45:17 trinque: eh, how do you make anyone care about what happens in 7 generations?

19:45:25 funkenstein_: we all care

19:45:27 ascii_field: you need, essentially, fanatics.

19:45:31 trinque: ^

19:45:34 Chillum: yup

19:46:18 Chillum: It would be nice to be born into a society that had spent the last 20 generations engaging in long term planning to make life easy

19:46:18 funkenstein_: you might as well ask how you make anyone care about what happens to themselves

19:46:22 Chillum: then just leach off of it

19:46:40 ascii_field: Chillum: where do i leech 50 yrs of free time and a semiconductor plant ?

19:46:42 mats: buying gold for a crisis is a bet that civilization will collapse this far -- and no further.

19:46:49 ascii_field: mats has it.

19:46:52 ascii_field: !s lead standard

19:46:53 assbot: 10 results for 'lead standard' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lead+standard

19:46:54 mats: a ridiculous idea, really.

19:47:17 funkenstein_: try seeds mats

19:47:23 Chillum: mats: historically civilizations do collapse so far, and no further. Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value

19:47:34 ascii_field: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/04/financial-totalitarianism.html << obligatory orlov

19:47:36 assbot: ClubOrlov: Financial Totalitarianism ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nm3asW )

19:47:39 trinque: funkenstein_ | you might as well ask how you make anyone care about what happens to themselves << no, this is automatic for me

19:47:46 trinque: I give ample shits about what happens to my own hide

19:47:48 Chillum: I agree it does not prepare for some unprecedented level of collapse

19:47:50 ascii_field: 'And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”'

19:48:11 funkenstein_: trinque, so it is automatic to care about all times then

19:48:15 mats: the only thing i'd ever bother to stockpile are bullets and natural gas

19:48:15 trinque: funkenstein_: no

19:48:22 ascii_field: Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value << aha, very valuable, but nothing in particular attaches it to your earthly carcass.

19:48:24 trinque: funkenstein_: you're making giant leaps

19:48:49 trinque: if I care about anything at all how could I not care about being able to continue to care?

19:48:54 Chillum: ascii_field: same goes for food and other supplies

19:48:57 mats: i've got some food here in case of emergency but realistically i'll be eaten before i get to that store... too many humans per sq ft in boston.

19:49:04 trinque: in 7 generations my "caring" will have long since extinguished

19:49:04 Chillum: they may just grab you for your sweet ass

19:49:18 Chillum: at least with gold you could buy a gun

19:49:41 funkenstein_: that depends on what you mean by "my" doesn't it

19:49:44 mats: what makes you think anybody would sell you a gun for some shiny?

19:49:47 ascii_field: ^

19:49:54 mats: they'll just put a knife in your chest and take it.

19:50:08 ascii_field: srsly this is not a secret, there is ample literature on what actually happens to idiot schmucks who think that money is magical

19:50:13 ascii_field: and somehow can turn into goodies by itself

19:50:18 trinque: funkenstein_: sure if we substitute my tangible feeling of "being" for some abstract soul which the society may chain to popular groupthink, we can make people do all kinds of things

19:50:19 Chillum: not magical, a tool

19:50:28 Chillum: if you don't act like a tool then you can use the tool

19:50:44 Chillum: idiot schmucks will always go the way of idiot schmucks

19:50:57 Chillum: an idiot can screw up any opportunity, means nothing

19:51:15 ascii_field: Chillum: markets do not disappear in a collapse, but become 'seller's markets' very quickly. the cost of a ticket on schindler's train was a bag of diamonds. the cost of a ticket on same train after it left - $infinite.

19:51:57 Chillum: well if I am in a nazi camp I would probably not benefit much from gold

19:51:59 mats: this kind of thinking is indicative of soft living

19:52:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43500 @ 0.00029153 = 12.6816 BTC [+]

19:52:08 trinque: funkenstein_: I'm not saying long term projects can't exist; however, I think they're doomed if they do not benefit the participants all along the way

19:52:21 funkenstein_: very true

19:52:25 Chillum: don't think poverty will protect you from the violent marauders

19:52:41 Chillum: being poor does not bring protection

19:52:50 ascii_field: trinque: which is why i said 'fanatics'. folks who understand that they are human rocket stages and accept this.

19:52:56 funkenstein_: one has to inherently weight the present as more important, it's an endless problem

19:52:58 Chillum: and any protection it does bring could be gained by someone able to pretend they are poor

19:53:40 ascii_field: Chillum: 'pretend you are poor' works until 'poor' means 'ribs showing'

19:53:45 ascii_field: or dead

19:54:15 Chillum: constant travel would be your best bet

19:54:37 Chillum: gladly I live in an area where you could live off the land if you wanted to

19:54:38 trinque: ascii_field: slaves, sure

19:54:46 ascii_field: actually farting sarin gas and spitting bullets at your enemies would be your best bet.

19:54:46 Chillum: though it may get crowded

19:54:49 trinque: but their masters are going to want something from having allocated them

19:54:52 ascii_field: but constant travel is a close second.

19:55:03 ascii_field: the amount of useful information contained in either advice is nil.

19:55:20 trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel?

19:55:32 Chillum: ascii_field: I honestly think keeping a low profile would offer a higher chance of survival than using a lot of force. I would carry a weapon but try my hardest not to reveal it, and use it if I do

19:56:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179250 @ 0.00029153 = 52.2568 BTC [+]

19:56:40 ascii_field: Chillum: the only further comment i have for this is that you will be well-served to read up on actual scenarios resembling your hypothetical. rather then using 'zombie apocalypse' 3d shooters as a mental model.

19:57:02 ascii_field: trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel? << in so long as this is phrased this way in his head - never.

19:57:03 trinque: ascii_field: also how do you get someone who's sufficiently fanatical to do the project yet rational enough to do it correctly?

19:57:03 Chillum: I have read of Zimbabwe, Germany, Argentina

19:57:09 ascii_field: it would have to be 'will of allah' or whatnot.

19:57:55 trinque: I have my doubts that a mind which believes in the will of allah produces anything of long term value

19:58:08 trinque: fuck it; god will solve the problems.

19:58:24 Chillum: a lot of great discoverers and inventors believed in god

19:58:33 ascii_field: trinque: are you able to see value in the truth as an abstract ?

19:58:35 Chillum: they could not wait for god to do it for them

19:59:02 Chillum: people believe all kinds of stupid shit, even the brilliant ones

20:01:10 funkenstein_: something i found for alf

20:01:13 funkenstein_: http://dpaste.com/3EVMY9K.txt

20:01:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nm5sZi )

20:02:11 ascii_field: 'that the protection stuff like checking array boundaries and pointer validity can be handled by the compiler just as effectively as it can in hardware, with the running product a lot faster and a lot simpler to build.' << imbecilic garbage

20:02:23 ascii_field: when 'in software' - can and -will- be stripped out.

20:02:26 ascii_field: for 'speed'

20:02:41 ascii_field: as described, e.g., here: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html

20:02:42 assbot: Re: Lisp advocacy misadventures - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nm5Kzl )

20:03:32 ascii_field: stockholm syndrome sufferer, justifying status quo so he can avoid fellating his pistol

20:03:56 ascii_field: citing the failures that he and his ilk were responsible for, as proof that problems cannot be solved.

20:04:16 ascii_field: i assume that the discussion concerned my www site, but my points stand even if not.

20:04:44 funkenstein_: el oh fucking el

20:04:58 Chillum: I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v

20:05:18 ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you know the organism in question, link him to my answer.

20:05:21 Chillum: it can create an access point and run a web server all by itself

20:05:44 ascii_field: Chillum: what some folks will do, just to get nsa into an automatic plant waterer.

20:05:53 funkenstein_: will do

20:06:01 ascii_field: or whatever you were going to do originally with 555 timer, that you are now using 'web server' for

20:06:05 ascii_field: merely because 'it is cheap'

20:06:48 funkenstein_: what do you mean 'in software' will be stripped out?

20:07:00 ascii_field: read the link.

20:07:22 Chillum: one of these and a small battery could record wifi SSIDs and signal strength and time for days

20:07:36 Chillum: later it could be used against googles SSID database to triangulate movement

20:07:44 Chillum: it can fit in almost anything

20:07:46 Chillum: very sacry

20:07:54 Chillum: at least little brother has it too

20:08:05 Chillum: I am sure big brother has something better though

20:10:10 ascii_field: funkenstein_: i am always entertained by folks commenting 'he does not know history of computing', when themselves they do not even know most of it, because it happened on the wrong side of the atlantic

20:10:20 ascii_field: and doesn't exist in english

20:11:02 ascii_field: see, idiot derps who do not know the state of the art and say that they do not need to, because taiwan isn't making it and their corner computer store isn't selling it - belong in africa.

20:12:13 funkenstein_: can't we build up from simple small parts?

20:12:34 ascii_field: funkenstein_: depends

20:13:12 ascii_field: funkenstein_: go and see how much physical space 1kb of memory takes up in a way you can -personally- construct from discrete transistors.

20:13:15 trinque: ascii_field | trinque: are you able to see value in the truth as an abstract ? << I had the opportunity to work for a guy that thought the relational database should be central to operating system design

20:13:26 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:13:33 funkenstein_: a lot of the "failures" .. are pretty fucking impressive

20:13:55 trinque: had me wiring up process tables, things in /etc via parsers, everything up into postgresql

20:14:03 ascii_field: bullet molded from shit.

20:14:15 ascii_field: 'fly to the moon by stacking chairs'

20:14:23 funkenstein_: can i use photolithography?

20:14:34 ascii_field: funkenstein_: whatcha waiting for

20:14:35 ascii_field: go, use.

20:14:37 trinque: it was "true" that the system he wanted is far more robust than sed/awk-ing /etc

20:15:02 trinque: all these "puppets" and "chefs" exist because that which holds state on unix is flimsy shit

20:15:02 ascii_field: funkenstein_: wake us up when you get something like intel 4004.

20:15:13 funkenstein_: lol

20:15:32 funkenstein_: so what's wrong with the 801 tell it straight up

20:15:39 mats: 16:04:57 <+Chillum> I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v

20:16:00 mats: you're not seriously going to run wifi or a webserver on it are you?

20:16:09 ascii_field: funkenstein_: expecting an answer to this question in a sentence is the height of folly

20:16:20 ascii_field: but, fundamentally, it is this:

20:16:21 funkenstein_: good point

20:16:35 ascii_field: the tech level to allow -one individual who can hold the design in his mind- to attempt it - wasn't there yet.

20:16:42 Chillum: mats: I am going to hook it to a serial gps chip and make a tiny super low power war walker

20:16:48 trinque: ascii_field: the company of course folded because he let a mundane consulting business die because this relational userland he was after was "obviously where computing should go"

20:16:59 Chillum: but if you ever wanted to add a webserver to your lamp, this is the device

20:17:07 mats: no. its not.

20:17:12 ascii_field: trinque: and where is the man? also dead ?

20:17:21 trinque: ascii_field: drunk at least, mostly dead

20:17:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75119 @ 0.00029157 = 21.9024 BTC [+] {2}

20:17:27 ascii_field: at least consistent.

20:17:30 trinque: lol

20:17:35 mats: can't securely access the thing

20:18:22 trinque: ascii_field: I bring this up because this was a far more incremental change to the stack than you propose, and it still failed miserably

20:18:30 trinque: and failed imo because of refusal to do the mundane

20:18:35 ascii_field: -because- incremental.

20:18:41 trinque: perhaps

20:18:59 ascii_field: there is no incremental path from -committee of crud- to -individual fits-in-head-

20:19:05 Chillum: not all applications call for security. I am making a device that uses a laser to detect a falling drop of water and triggers my camera just as it is impacting in a pool

20:19:17 mats: er s/access/use

20:19:17 Chillum: adding a webserver interface is actually cheaper than a display and buttons

20:19:28 ascii_field: Chillum: not all applications call for security << ?!?!!!!

20:19:31 trinque: ascii_field: the idea was you get everything modeled relationally, and then user can reason about schema rather than myriad other representations of structure

20:19:33 ascii_field: what else do 'not all applications' call for

20:19:44 ascii_field: is it all right if device spontaneously catches fire ?

20:19:57 Chillum: mats: through the serial port you can completely rewrite the firmware... though I suppose on the wire it may be running some spyware, but then so could anything

20:19:58 mats: feature.

20:20:04 Chillum: it runs C code on the processor

20:20:11 Chillum: no OS even

20:20:22 mats: its not the firmware that's the problem

20:20:38 mats: same reason why pogo is only accessible over serial

20:20:57 mats: or whatever the physical arrangements therein

20:21:01 Chillum: well if you want the same thing without wifi just use an arduino

20:21:09 mats: loled

20:21:13 *: ascii_field head-desks

20:21:51 trinque: ascii_field: doesn't seem that nature takes these massive leaps

20:21:54 Chillum: ascii_field: my point was if someone hacks my camera trigger device they can take pictures and then I will unplug it

20:22:00 ascii_field: nature doesn't build cpu.

20:22:04 trinque: yeah it does

20:22:05 ascii_field: or even the shirt on your back.

20:22:08 *: trinque knocks on noggin

20:22:13 Chillum: nature builds CPUs that build CPUS

20:22:18 trinque: ^

20:22:26 ascii_field: Chillum will get his next cpu from a tree.

20:22:29 trinque: lol

20:22:37 ascii_field: mankind - makes leaps.

20:22:51 ascii_field: everything worth talking about a generation up - is a leap.

20:23:09 Chillum: we are leaping more often

20:23:24 ascii_field: no cow that lived so much as 50 years ago is worth discussing

20:23:30 ascii_field: unless it was used in a medical experiment

20:23:46 trinque: not a good representative of the solutions nature comes up with

20:23:49 trinque: cows are more our fault

20:23:53 ascii_field: even in so much as it was necessary so that paul erdos could have a glass of milk.

20:24:11 ascii_field: the blade of grass the cow ate is not 'our fault' at all

20:24:22 ascii_field: and even less worthy of discussion, as an individual.

20:24:25 Chillum: Babe the Blue Ox?

20:24:28 trinque: having bred together the most docile, drooling morons of the cow-ancestor is

20:24:31 Chillum: not really a cow

20:25:01 trinque: ascii_field: say you burn a trillion dollars on this thing and it simply never works

20:25:12 ascii_field: trinque: that is virtually guaranteed

20:25:25 trinque: so then this sounds like soviet economics at best :D

20:25:29 ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with

20:25:32 ascii_field: than otherwise.

20:26:27 ascii_field: trinque: 'soviet economics' was the kind of fool who is the only kind who can make sufficiently long bets.

20:26:38 trinque: didn't seem to work out for them

20:26:40 ascii_field: excepting perhaps ancient egyptians, or medieval christendom

20:26:43 funkenstein_: i'm not sure i get this "hold it all in your mind" fascination

20:26:49 trinque: funkenstein_: that I get 100%

20:26:54 ascii_field: funkenstein_: until you grasp it, we have nothing to discuss

20:27:09 ascii_field: read the logs.

20:27:11 Chillum: no society works out on a big enough scale

20:27:21 funkenstein_: protons

20:27:35 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-02-2015#1033665

20:27:35 assbot: Logged on 25-02-2015 21:13:46; mircea_popescu: the entire "act from cause not towards purpose" thing on fraudsters is exactly a vaccine against that.

20:27:38 ascii_field: ^ mandatory

20:28:24 funkenstein_: the car is a common example

20:28:44 trinque: ascii_field: are there not smaller discoveries which would be useful independently which would build towards the final product?

20:29:02 ascii_field: trinque: certainly

20:29:10 trinque: well that'd be the thing to do then

20:29:20 trinque: chart a course towards the smallest of them, and towards selling it as well

20:29:37 trinque: not "burn a kingdom"

20:29:45 trinque: if it's right you should be able to get rich doing each bit of it

20:29:56 ascii_field: trinque: the only unsolved problem that would make a palpable difference is the home ic fab. which makes home satellite launch look trivial.

20:30:02 ascii_field: trinque: wake me up when you solve this

20:30:06 ascii_field: without being killed by usg

20:30:28 ascii_field: but -don't wake me up- if you want to be 'the delusionist'

20:30:33 funkenstein_: fpga not good enough for you?

20:30:35 ascii_field: http://oglaf.com/delusionist

20:30:35 assbot: Delusionist ... ( http://bit.ly/1FBB3jX )

20:30:36 ascii_field: NO

20:30:43 ascii_field: fuck, none of you read logs, do you

20:30:43 trinque: funkenstein_: he's already talked at length about FPGA

20:30:46 ascii_field: !s xilinx

20:30:46 assbot: 62 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx

20:30:53 trinque: ascii_field: I do indeed read the logs

20:31:08 mats: poor ascii, beset on all sides

20:31:17 trinque: I'm stating obvious facts about business which will still be true in 2198

20:31:40 funkenstein_: seeing as the same shit keeps coming up.. a certain amount of accepting what we have might be in order

20:31:49 ascii_field: trinque: nothing about electricity made 'business sense' in 1810.

20:31:53 funkenstein_: and using it to fix shit

20:31:55 mats: there is not always commercial value in incremental science

20:32:20 trinque: mats: I think scientists might just tend to think themselves above commerce

20:32:22 ascii_field: the only reason you are reading this by electric light, instead of mumbling to yourself in a field, is that someone had the freedom to counter-economically pull his mental dick by experimenting with strange.

20:32:36 ascii_field: the economic actors came second.

20:32:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70100 @ 0.00029162 = 20.4426 BTC [+]

20:32:59 trinque: sure

20:33:00 funkenstein_: if you are in it for the money you are an amateur

20:33:05 trinque: funkenstein_: oh come on

20:33:16 trinque: iirc the house that invented the light bulb made a great deal of money selling them

20:33:17 funkenstein_: quoting

20:33:25 trinque: this is anticapitalist nonsense

20:33:31 funkenstein_: no it is common sense

20:34:15 ascii_field: trinque: lodygin didn't make terribly much from light bulb.

20:34:18 mats: there is such a thing as frictional force business you know

20:34:39 mats: er, in business.

20:35:30 trinque: ascii_field: was he permitted to benefit from the fruits of his own labor, or did this belong to some all-owning state? I am not familiar enough with Russian history to say.

20:35:32 ascii_field: thing is, you don't get to make herr lodygin not exist, just so your ideology can make sense.

20:35:41 ascii_field: or lilienfeld's transistor.

20:35:43 ascii_field: or, or, or

20:36:13 ascii_field: or farnsworth's television

20:36:21 funkenstein_: the interesting bit is what you guys actually do with your lives, not who says they have what in which accounts

20:36:22 trinque: I am not questioning whether people solve problems simply because of the satisfaction of doing so

20:36:23 ascii_field: ^ lived in usa

20:36:39 ascii_field: funkenstein_: aha let's change subject, sure

20:36:40 ascii_field: no.

20:36:45 ascii_field: it is germane.

20:37:21 trinque: I think it's fine to say the capitalist and the scientist are different men

20:37:38 funkenstein_: here's a possibly unrelated query for you

20:37:39 Chillum: batman was both

20:37:43 trinque: but also that if you're talking about projects that span any considerable length of time, you're gonna need a capitalist

20:38:00 ascii_field: trinque: who was korolev's capitalist ?

20:38:05 trinque: armies run on food

20:38:07 trinque: and boots

20:38:11 trinque: and so on

20:38:18 trinque: oil, metal, w/e

20:38:24 funkenstein_: oh never mind :P i'm off for a drink

20:38:31 trinque: the guy that discovers a thing is not the only part of the process

20:38:42 trinque: how bout producing more than one of the thing

20:39:32 trinque: ascii_field: looks like his capitalist was the soviet state

20:39:43 ascii_field: trinque: interestingly, there are quite a few technologies which, in the popular mind, 'don't exist' because you cannot get them at the corner store.

20:39:50 ascii_field: e.g., doped diamond semiconductor

20:39:58 ascii_field: but they exist nevertheless.

20:40:34 trinque: ascii_field: ah, I am not also saying that because something's not at walmart it doesn't really exist. the market being skewed towards morons is a separate problem which needs to be solved

20:41:22 ascii_field: trinque: consider an example:

20:41:26 ascii_field: P. Ya. Ufimtsev, Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, Soviet Radio, Moscow, 1962.

20:41:29 ascii_field: does this ring a bell?

20:41:32 ascii_field: it should.

20:42:17 ascii_field: the (meanwhile obsolete today but that is another conversation) 'stealth' airplane - lives and dies by this paper

20:42:22 ascii_field: a fact not disputed by its makers

20:43:02 ascii_field: note that herr ufimtsev did not go to a venture capitalist and ask for money to live on so he could study mathematics and live a long life of possibly not amounting to anything that could be cashed in to pay it back.

20:43:21 trinque: well the soviet state was the patron of these scientists, yes?

20:43:29 ascii_field: aha

20:43:39 ascii_field: like a demented old woman who invests in pyramid scams ten times a day

20:43:42 trinque: ultimately consumed by the rot of central economic planning?

20:43:57 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:44:01 trinque: how does that thing run long enough for your zealots to produce the computer?

20:44:14 ascii_field: trinque: same question will be asked of usa

20:44:17 ascii_field: and every other mega-empire

20:44:28 ascii_field: how did aztecs stay in business long enough to build their pyramid temples?

20:44:29 ascii_field: egypt?

20:45:01 trinque: bizarre obsession with a single topic coupled with sort of living in an undisturbed bubble for long enough

20:45:01 ascii_field: empires - age. and die. like people.

20:45:01 chetty: same answer for all of the above, believers

20:45:20 trinque: chetty: yeah but "believers in bubble" I think

20:45:48 chetty: well a bubble holds the belief together for longer

20:46:09 ascii_field: in what bubble did mr newton live ?

20:46:28 trinque: wasn't it wealth?

20:46:29 ascii_field: arguably in christendom, but he did write 'i do not need that hypothesis' when asked where the place of the creator was in 'principia'

20:46:35 ascii_field: ditto ussr

20:47:04 chetty: even in bubbles you get a few ...

20:47:06 ascii_field: what particular state religion is in use, is unimportant so long as ufimtsev et al can do their thing.

20:47:15 Chillum: trinque: he was born to a farming family

20:47:16 *: chetty points at ascii_field

20:47:45 trinque: right so what arrangement produces the longest-term supply of wealthy, educated, cultured patrons?

20:47:50 ascii_field: in bubbles, you sometimes get visitors from older, long-popped bubbles

20:47:50 Chillum: his mom wanted him to stop school to go back to farming when he was a teenager

20:48:23 chetty: <trinque> right so what arrangement produces the longest-term supply of wealthy, educated, cultured patrons?// afaik feudalism

20:48:51 ascii_field: trinque: this is not a question that anyone has any use for the answer of, even if i could convincingly answer it. but otherwise - chetty has it.

20:48:54 Chillum: it was a good system, if you were in charge

20:49:19 trinque: Chillum: or could demonstrate value to someone who was

20:49:27 ascii_field: Chillum: and if not. i spend a vastly larger fraction of my waking hours working to pay tax than any medieval peasant in europe did.

20:50:11 Chillum: I try not to work too hard

20:50:12 chetty: second that ascii_field

20:52:44 ascii_field: to wrap up the thread, when i spoke of 'fanatic' i was referring precisely to mircea_popescu's 'act from cause not towards purpose' maxim.

20:53:13 trinque: I don't see the connection to fanaticism there

20:53:18 trinque: a fanatic has a purpose

20:53:26 trinque: "I will bring about the glorious *it*"

20:53:38 ascii_field: trinque: that is a formulation for the simple

20:54:21 ascii_field: in actuality, there are two kinds of human activity. 'i will do this because my cock will be sucked, or to avoid whipping', and the other being 'i will do this because it is right'

20:54:32 ascii_field: 1 is 'purpose'; 2 - 'cause'.

20:54:42 trinque: I am skeptical of the "right" used there, but that's an entirely other thread

20:55:06 ascii_field: virtually anyone worth speaking to, is, upon examination, motivated by some (2) and not merely (1).

20:56:34 ascii_field: think of the partizan who dies under torture rather than rat out comrades

20:56:57 ascii_field: or whatever equivalent exists in your particular culture (and if your culture doesn't have such heroes, it is moribund and time to gtfo)

20:57:39 trinque: person in question doesn't want to live in a world where comrades are ratted, or at least not his

20:57:48 trinque: that can be entirely rational

20:57:57 trinque: doesn't require a zealot in service to something imaginary

20:58:14 ascii_field: the world that exists after your death is imaginary.

20:58:34 trinque: yeah but there are perhaps circumstances less appealing than death

20:58:37 ascii_field: if you don't see this, you are playing mental gymnastics, but whatever rocks your boat.

20:58:47 trinque: ascii_field: no that was precisely my point earlier

20:58:57 trinque: considering 7 generation projects

21:00:04 asciilifeform: !up diametric

21:00:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114433 @ 0.00028772 = 32.9247 BTC [-]

21:00:17 diametric: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/04/10/1541258/florida-teen-charged-with-felony-hacking-for-changing-desktop-wallpaper

21:00:19 assbot: Florida Teen Charged With Felony Hacking For Changing Desktop Wallpaper - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CD6wwh )

21:00:23 trinque: infrequently I experience extreme headaches

21:00:30 funkenstein_: ascii_field wut?

21:00:37 trinque: the dehumanizing, laughing at nothing, vomiting kind

21:00:45 funkenstein_: you trollin bro

21:01:04 trinque: since they are infrequent I do not feel this way, but if they were daily I'd gladly end my life rather than continue in those conditions

21:01:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187471 @ 0.00028093 = 52.6662 BTC [-] {2}

21:01:12 trinque: has nothing to do with the situation after death

21:01:25 trinque: ratting comrades might make a person feel the same way about himself, so he choses death

21:02:08 funkenstein_: the world that exists after your birth is imaginary <-- makes more sense

21:02:12 ascii_field: 'A 14-year-old middle school student in Holiday, Florida, was arrested this week and charged with "an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access," which is a felony. The student reportedly used an administrator password to log into a teacher's computer and change the background image to a photo of two men kissing. The student also revealed his secrets after he was caught – the password was the teacher'

21:02:12 ascii_field: s last name, and the teacher had typed it in in full view of the students. The student said many other students used these administrators' passwords (their teachers' last names) so they can screen-share and video chat with other students. The student was briefly held in a nearby detention center, and the county Sheriff warned that other teenagers caught doing the same thing will "face the same consequences."'

21:03:08 *: trinque has to run, will pick up the thread upon return

21:03:25 ascii_field: 'Kids need to learn the consequences of embarrassing powerful people. That is one of the golden rules of modern society; thou shalt not embarrass thy superiors. Snowden forgot that, and this little punk forgot that. You respect your betters, or you get tossed in a cage. That's the law. Ingrain that into your kid's brains before puberty hits, or they will wind up in a cage too.' << from commentz

21:10:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61158 @ 0.00027974 = 17.1083 BTC [-]

21:14:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140300 @ 0.00027864 = 39.0932 BTC [-]

21:15:32 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:17:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 215200 @ 0.00028284 = 60.8672 BTC [+] {3}

21:35:49 funkenstein_: no public key - can't apply revocation certificate <--- gpg --import spits this out. what does it mean?

21:36:17 ascii_field: funkenstein_: likely means that there is a revocator packet in there for some key you don't have in your collection

21:36:30 ascii_field: should not be a fatal error

21:36:51 funkenstein_: thanks.. but it seems it is not taking the public key which was given to me

21:37:29 funkenstein_: it's a new public key someone sent me

21:39:38 funkenstein_: a shady character as it happens

21:40:25 funkenstein_: no matter i'll ask for a new one, thanks again

21:44:37 mircea_popescu: prolly key was revoked already

21:46:01 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:47:39 mircea_popescu: hm did qntra hit a truly major spike or something ?

21:48:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i had to guess, it'd be http://qntra.net/2015/04/battle-for-the-right-to-play-old-multiplayer-games-take-shape

21:48:49 assbot: Battle for the right to play old multiplayer games take shape. | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1O0cEoK )

21:59:42 mircea_popescu: hm

22:14:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29637 @ 0.00028698 = 8.5052 BTC [+]

22:21:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92813 @ 0.00028698 = 26.6355 BTC [+]

22:32:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216393 @ 0.00028333 = 61.3106 BTC [-] {2}

22:34:56 mircea_popescu: !up shinohai

22:35:19 Chillum: ultima online, good times

22:37:39 Chillum: heck Ultima IV good times

22:44:35 shinohai: o/ mircea_popescu

22:44:53 mircea_popescu: which one is ultima ? the one with vi domina etc ?

22:45:08 mircea_popescu: ello shinohai

22:45:53 shinohai: are we going to defeat the bitcoin foundation and build a real btc wallet?

22:46:31 mircea_popescu: who's we. for that matter, who are you.

22:46:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095266 << you know, people have direct contact with this : beggars in every major town are run by organized crime.

22:46:47 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:13:36; ascii_field: or the absurdity you were asked to believe, that villagers could have 'food flown in' in exchange for collectively 'picking up gold flakes'

22:47:06 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, same people actually believe the equivalent of beggars in a river somewhere are... a communal co-op!

22:47:11 mircea_popescu: talk about a memory hole.

22:47:50 mircea_popescu: what exactly would prevent me from beating the shit out of the 'villagers' each day, having them digging out gold nuggets till they drop so i can have more guns flown in ?

22:47:57 mircea_popescu: it's how fucking africa runs since... oh i dunno, 1500 ?

22:48:01 shinohai: I am no one. Just a person that wants to secure the future of this tech

22:49:35 shinohai: not interested in picking up gold flakes. If i was i'd still get my bitcoin from faucets

22:49:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095282 << gruel is actually made out of oats, traditionally. rye, in some places. it also expanded to mean figuratively "any cheap unpretentious bland boiled stuff"

22:49:57 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:18:17; Chillum: though traditionally it is hemp seeds, and is actually really good food

22:50:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095298 << yeah that's a good goal.

22:50:58 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:21:41; Chillum: I wish I had a satoshi for everything in the channel that was required reading

22:51:42 shinohai: Wish in one and shit in the other. See which fills up quicker.

22:51:57 shinohai: I have actually quoted you before mircea_popescu

22:52:15 shinohai: How if we wish to have nice things, we need to pay for them

22:52:38 shinohai: ad naseum

22:53:14 mircea_popescu: aha.

22:53:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095315 << and run into the 17th standard problem ? the reason they're horribru is because they're stuck working for dwim users who are very diverse.

22:53:41 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:27:44; trinque: you could build a product that's an order of magnitude better than what they offer in your sleep

22:54:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93165 @ 0.00028866 = 26.893 BTC [+]

22:54:26 shinohai: I work for no one at this point.

22:54:30 shinohai: So lol

22:54:48 shinohai: I just like stirring pots

22:55:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 381900 @ 0.00027835 = 106.3019 BTC [-] {4}

22:55:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095326 << people certainly understand problems stated in terms of sex a fuckload better than they understand the same problems stated in "abstract" terms huh.

22:55:35 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:33:25; Chillum: anti-virus: https://xkcd.com/463/

22:56:34 shinohai: touche

22:56:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095340 << so eat more beans :D

22:56:52 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:39:27; ascii_field: trinque: again can't speak for you, but i can't create the customer any more than can create the weather.

22:57:06 trinque: heh!

22:57:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095342 << yeah. or in simpler terms : suppose you're the foreign kid in class that not only throws everyone's curve to the point where most of them flunk

22:57:36 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:42:35; trinque: say I'm the firewall company, I'd not only make my thing, I'd spend money punching holes in everyone else's products all day

22:57:42 mircea_popescu: but also makes fun of them all day for it.

22:57:49 mircea_popescu: how'd that conceivably go ?

22:58:23 shinohai: meh I've been made fun of before

22:58:43 shinohai: ask TradeFortress how that wen

22:58:48 shinohai: *went

22:59:09 Chillum: I had this job and we had to get our site certified for some credit card standard. They required anti-virus software, but we run linux. So we installed an anti-virus scanner designed to find windows viruses in attachments for e-mail servers

22:59:20 mircea_popescu: shinohai dawg you're trying too hard. how about you get in the wot, settle down to some reading ?

22:59:22 Chillum: it passed

22:59:33 mircea_popescu: lol

22:59:38 shinohai: idc

22:59:39 mircea_popescu: im sure someone somewhere had a chuckle.

22:59:41 trinque: Chillum: PCI is a joke

22:59:47 Chillum: indeed it is

22:59:49 shinohai: if i make wot so be it

22:59:57 shinohai: if not im doing my thing

23:00:07 Chillum: wow you are so independent!

23:00:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095355 << ironically, you are.

23:00:55 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:46:18; Chillum: It would be nice to be born into a society that had spent the last 20 generations engaging in long term planning to make life easy

23:00:57 mircea_popescu: do you love it ?

23:01:08 Chillum: that is only part of what I said

23:01:13 Chillum: I then said "Then I can leach off of it"

23:01:15 Chillum: yes I do

23:01:21 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:01:33 trinque: central planning eh?

23:01:38 shinohai: may iask mircea_popescu what u think i try so hard at ?

23:01:38 mircea_popescu: imo it's kinda dweeby, but hey. one doesn't get to choose the times

23:01:42 trinque: that was the thread with alf earlier

23:01:56 mircea_popescu: shinohai that part is unclear.

23:02:05 shinohai: naturally

23:02:19 Chillum: The danger of planning tasks beyond your lifetime is instead of grand stabilizing projects they turn into welfare

23:02:31 Chillum: like social security

23:02:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095365 << gold had value in the sense prostitutes are pleasant. sure, in general.

23:02:38 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:47:23; Chillum: mats: historically civilizations do collapse so far, and no further. Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value

23:02:39 trinque: Chillum: or it falls apart because the narrative keeping people doing it is bullshit

23:02:40 mircea_popescu: not to you.

23:03:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146500 @ 0.00029023 = 42.5187 BTC [+] {2}

23:03:23 mircea_popescu: books also had meaning. all through the dark ages.

23:03:26 mircea_popescu: the arabs collected them.

23:03:39 Chillum: that worked out well

23:03:47 mircea_popescu: sure, in general it did.

23:04:34 mircea_popescu: for that matter, politicians are pliable, policemen respectful and judges amenable. in all times and places. that's what these do.

23:04:38 mircea_popescu: doctors cure diseases.

23:04:43 mircea_popescu: you however... you got cancer. what now ?

23:05:03 shinohai: books haz moar value than gold

23:05:16 Chillum: I used to sell books for a living, they really don't

23:05:32 mircea_popescu: so did orwell.

23:05:37 trinque: assbot has it

23:05:39 mircea_popescu: came to the same conclusion, apparently.

23:05:40 Chillum: by that I mean I wrote repricing scripts that set the prices on millions of books

23:05:48 mircea_popescu: oh that bit.

23:06:18 Chillum: some people are so dumb they insist on pricing their book at 1 cent below the lowest price every hour when we have told them that other people are doing that

23:06:24 Chillum: then they complain that their books cost 1 penny

23:06:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095371 << or to put it in actual cannonical form, "how do i ensure my personal relevance transcends gaps which specifically annull the relevance of things existing prior ???". get in line, every old guy since afanti wanted to figure this one out.

23:06:58 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:47:50; ascii_field: 'And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”'

23:07:00 Chillum: a lot of people priced their books by weight because they bought them by the ton

23:07:11 Chillum: buy @ 5 cents per kilo sell at 10 cents per kilo

23:07:22 Chillum: except they used pounds because they were american sigh

23:07:31 mircea_popescu: Chillum this is how it worked in belle epoque paris rly.

23:07:56 Chillum: naturally the books that sell by weight tend to be the ones that don't sell

23:08:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68544 @ 0.00029162 = 19.9888 BTC [+]

23:08:17 mircea_popescu: books as a product kinda died a decade or two prior.

23:08:26 mircea_popescu: i used to have a huge library, i wouldnt buy a book today.

23:08:35 Chillum: yes, online sales is essentially liquidation for a lot of sellers

23:09:05 mircea_popescu: better ways to grow fungi and afids on your walls if you're really into that.

23:09:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60556 @ 0.00029249 = 17.712 BTC [+] {2}

23:09:22 Chillum: people would arbitrage book auctions compared to known prices and then ship it all to Amazon for them to handle the shipping. Pencil pushers buying us dying companies and selling with least effort possible

23:09:37 Chillum: s/us/up/

23:10:06 Chillum: a lot of online book sellers never handle a book

23:10:55 Chillum: we call them "widgets"

23:11:40 mircea_popescu: his is pretty common.

23:11:51 mircea_popescu: whitelabelling and dropshipping and all that is how the "service economy" operates.

23:12:15 Chillum: very very stupid people

23:12:24 Chillum: introverted, antisocial, stupid bookseller

23:12:27 Chillum: s

23:13:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095388 << about the same that happens to people who thing their feelings are important.

23:13:06 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:50:13; ascii_field: and somehow can turn into goodies by itself

23:13:10 mircea_popescu: they get pregnant and then used to it.

23:14:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095398 << "goal-oriented" has appeared in literature recently. there is a reason for this.

23:14:00 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:52:08; trinque: funkenstein_: I'm not saying long term projects can't exist; however, I think they're doomed if they do not benefit the participants all along the way

23:14:26 mircea_popescu: most of human history, and the vast majority of everything nice and good, came out of cause-oriented. so common in fact it didn't even have a name.

23:15:01 mircea_popescu: what motivates the monkey to pick up the rock isn't some sort of contorted dream about becoming a rockthrowing revolutionary ceo.

23:15:06 Chillum: any long term project will be cannibalized the moment it become inconvenient not too

23:15:07 mircea_popescu: it is a much simpler "here is a rock."

23:15:12 Chillum: the pyramids used to have a lovely limestone cover

23:15:24 mircea_popescu: Chillum and kept it, until napoleon showed up.

23:15:28 mircea_popescu: the locals didn't. you know ?

23:15:29 trinque: mircea_popescu: right, this seems directly at odds with the multigenerational, self-sacrificial quest for truth

23:15:57 Chillum: actually there are very old towns build from the pyramids limestone

23:16:03 Chillum: in ruins

23:16:17 mircea_popescu: you're thinking the modern villages in england built out of their various ancient druid stuff.

23:16:17 Chillum: not all of it

23:16:26 Chillum: nope that is not what I am thinking of

23:16:36 mircea_popescu: i been to egypt, never seen these towns.

23:16:39 trinque: mircea_popescu: is this idea of the colossal project a russian thing?

23:16:39 Chillum: I don't see how I could confuse such different things

23:16:49 Chillum: I have been to Kenya, I did not see a giraffe

23:16:52 Chillum: they still exist

23:16:55 mircea_popescu: point.

23:17:06 Chillum: I saw an elephant though

23:17:17 mircea_popescu: i saw a giraffe but it wasn't kenya.

23:17:21 mircea_popescu: trinque um, why russian ?

23:17:30 Chillum: the elephant was very far away, but I saw it

23:17:40 trinque: mircea_popescu: stan likes to bring up russian scientists

23:18:00 mircea_popescu: im kinda sorrty we don't have an ukr alf here, it'd be fun to watch the two.

23:18:08 Chillum: At this forest like park I was drinking(they have bars in parks there!) and there were these little monkeys everywhere

23:18:13 mircea_popescu: "you no say ukraine is weak!"

23:18:24 Chillum: some fool at another table fed them and suddenly they had like 20 monkeys

23:18:30 mircea_popescu: heh

23:18:37 mircea_popescu: practically street urchins, huh.

23:18:48 Chillum: then a freaking baboon walked by our table and gave us a nod as it went by

23:19:01 mircea_popescu: lol!

23:19:05 Chillum: the people I was with said they don't normally live in that area but that one lives in the park

23:19:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095407 << this has historically not been the case.

23:19:37 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:54:15; Chillum: constant travel would be your best bet

23:20:31 Chillum: this guy: http://kenya-2011.highinbc.com/images/e7c2268a5c8227eb4a7d4f973f500b9f-600.jpg

23:20:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IS5Ub3 )

23:21:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095416 << actually being a woman, especially if young, and very very easy is what offers the best chance of survival.

23:21:14 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:55:32; Chillum: ascii_field: I honestly think keeping a low profile would offer a higher chance of survival than using a lot of force. I would carry a weapon but try my hardest not to reveal it, and use it if I do

23:21:30 mircea_popescu: being a man is already such a bad deal very little you'll do can possibly compensate.

23:21:51 mircea_popescu: pretty cool.

23:22:32 Chillum: just imagine being a baboon living in a people park

23:22:52 mircea_popescu: what's the big deal ? animals are versatile. pigeons do it, why wouldn't monkeys.

23:22:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095419 << quite exactly.

23:22:58 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:57:02; ascii_field: trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel? << in so long as this is phrased this way in his head - never.

23:23:08 mircea_popescu: dude i missed a buncha good lines!

23:23:12 Chillum: All I remember thinking is that this animal has super human strength and speed

23:23:16 trinque: I enjoyed that thread

23:23:25 trinque: mircea_popescu: what is the alternate phrasing?

23:23:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095423 << nonsense, this. the arabs produced the fucking algorithm.

23:23:43 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:57:55; trinque: I have my doubts that a mind which believes in the will of allah produces anything of long term value

23:23:49 *: Adlai shares another one of his ideas that require more rocket fuel than he has to offer - something which inputs log.b-a, and outputs actual threads

23:23:50 mircea_popescu: and chemistry.

23:24:01 Chillum: they invented zero

23:24:03 Chillum: that is like half of computer

23:24:04 mircea_popescu: Adlai heh. so make a forum out of it?

23:24:06 trinque: been a while since eh?

23:24:07 Chillum: one being the other half

23:24:21 Chillum: s/computer/computing/

23:24:23 mircea_popescu: trinque "a man that does what he can and takes pleasure in it will do what he can and take pleasure in it".

23:24:25 trinque: looks like they got as much as they could out of allah a while ago

23:24:27 Adlai: mircea_popescu: no! envision a secretary, lurking in-channel, tagging each message with the 'thread' to which it belongs

23:24:45 Adlai: now lock the secretary in a room with no internet and logs

23:24:50 mircea_popescu: think in terms of impregnating women, trinque. why don't you do it ? because what it... means, what it implies. but imagine it implied exactly nothing. well then ? why not ?

23:25:00 trinque: sure, all over the place

23:25:02 Chillum: trinque: religion isn't about getting something, it is about people taking from you

23:25:07 mircea_popescu: Chillum argument was "enduring"

23:25:16 Adlai: "war isn't about who's right, it's about who's left"

23:25:18 trinque: mircea_popescu: alf says the guy needs to burn all his women to make the computer

23:25:24 trinque: or that's my understanding

23:25:35 mircea_popescu: i doubt the guy cares what alf says.

23:25:43 mircea_popescu: Adlai ahaha excellent.

23:26:12 Adlai: mircea_popescu: excellent the quote, or the thread-annotator concept?

23:26:17 mircea_popescu: the quote.

23:26:34 mircea_popescu: yes, war is about how the women will be left, and they'll reform society into an imbecillic construction that'll require the next war.

23:26:43 mircea_popescu: seems improbable for anyone to manage to ever break this cycle.

23:26:55 Adlai: the disadvantage of having a threader is that it saves newbies the valuable educational work of thinking while they read

23:26:59 Chillum: we could send women to war and the guys stay home

23:27:05 Chillum: it is their turn anyways

23:27:15 mircea_popescu: why not tax the rich and help the poor, while at it.

23:27:19 mircea_popescu: or piss upstream or w/e.

23:27:33 Chillum: we could hold the war in a really inconvenient location so that nobody shows up

23:27:39 Chillum: on a tuesday

23:27:42 mircea_popescu: all fine ideas that never work. and in any case : i was discussing gender not sex.

23:27:58 mircea_popescu: whoever you send to war is gonna be the male.

23:28:04 mircea_popescu: 'cuz they went.

23:29:50 Chillum: lol guess which one I am: http://kenya-2011.highinbc.com/images/f46e7a7dc6d8f3b10a0877aa1a3bb4b2-600.jpg

23:29:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IS6ANE )

23:30:02 Chillum: "one of these guys is not like the others..."

23:30:08 trinque: Chillum: kid in the pink jumpsuit, clearly

23:30:13 Chillum: yup

23:30:42 Chillum: hint, I am not from Kenya

23:31:00 Adlai: the child was clearly adopted from inner-city parents who couldn't afford to raise it

23:31:09 Adlai: eg detroit

23:31:21 Chillum: while it may look like detroit is it in fact not

23:31:30 Chillum: notice the trees

23:31:48 mircea_popescu: is Chillum hotter than nubbins` ?

23:31:53 trinque: that building's too sturdy for detroit

23:32:03 Chillum: not sure, I am pretty hot

23:32:05 mircea_popescu: lol

23:32:15 mircea_popescu: Chillum what do they call the djalabeya in kenya ?

23:32:32 Chillum: I don't know that word

23:32:43 mircea_popescu: the jumpsuit as the fellow put it

23:33:02 Chillum: I don't know

23:33:04 mircea_popescu: everyone wears the same thing and calls it sopmething else.

23:33:19 Chillum: but I will say even in the poor areas people were pretty well dressed

23:33:26 Chillum: it must be a cultural thing

23:33:26 mircea_popescu: apparently the english canonical form is jalabiya

23:33:39 Chillum: particularly when they were in town

23:35:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095441 << this is pretty interesting.

23:35:52 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:04:58; Chillum: I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v

23:35:56 mircea_popescu: are they available in qty ?

23:36:13 Chillum: yes

23:36:17 Chillum: they are mass produced

23:36:22 Chillum: got mine on ebay

23:36:27 mircea_popescu: what's it power the wifi from ?

23:37:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095442 << dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write, "warm smile and handshake" smarm, why would you despise people you also don't know on the basis of six lines ? what are you, mazarin ?

23:37:05 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:05:18; ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you know the organism in question, link him to my answer.

23:37:07 Chillum: It says +25dBm on it

23:37:31 Chillum: there are several models, a few have external antenna ports

23:37:45 mircea_popescu: whats that like 1/3 W ?

23:38:04 Chillum: not sure

23:38:23 mircea_popescu: pretty decent iirc 15ish is the norm. mebbe 20.

23:38:32 Chillum: the esp-07 version is the small one with more memory and gpios and external antenna port

23:38:39 Chillum: $3.88 each

23:38:50 Chillum: and that is to buy one, I am sure there are bulk discounts

23:39:17 Chillum: This guy: www.ebay.ca/itm/291335888282

23:39:21 mircea_popescu: Chillum something's amiss, actually. the +25dBm needs to output >320 mW. your thing can't eat 300mW peak and also output 320. but anyway, usual commercial puffery.

23:39:41 Chillum: ya, just reading what the website says

23:39:50 Chillum: I may have misread too

23:40:29 Chillum: These guys field test them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYdZ_24yg0

23:40:31 assbot: ESP8266 Wifi Range/Distance Tests (Wi07C) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IS7CJx )

23:40:42 Chillum: they get over a kilometer without an ext ant, more with

23:41:24 mircea_popescu: yah pretty impressive.

23:41:31 mircea_popescu: esp for how tiny it is.

23:41:59 Chillum: indeed. Its impressive features include its tiny price, tiny size, and tiny power usage(even if it is over 300ma)

23:42:34 Chillum: the old version was C only and that was great, now they have a lua interpreter which makes handling network connections so much easier

23:42:53 Chillum: the lua interpreter is of course just C

23:43:02 mircea_popescu: i'd imagine.

23:43:04 Chillum: about 140k of C, very efficient

23:43:50 Chillum: If you ever want to include a scripting language in an embedded device but don't have a lot of resources to spare, that is what lua was made for

23:44:04 Chillum: it has very good sandboxing

23:44:10 mircea_popescu: i gather. used extensively in gaming for this reason.

23:44:15 whaack: Is there a way to prevent NickServ from dropping my account? It says I'm not registered now

23:44:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095470 << lol. so russian :D

23:44:16 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:14:35; ascii_field: go, use.

23:44:31 mircea_popescu: whaack why would nickserv drop an account ? i never heard of this.

23:44:39 mircea_popescu: but should prolly ask in #freenode.

23:44:43 whaack: well I try to identify and it says I'm not registered

23:44:48 Chillum: did you perhaps have 1 or 3 "a"s in your last username?

23:44:49 mircea_popescu: wrong name ?

23:45:18 Chillum: wrong irc network?

23:46:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095482 << wait, that's legal where you live ? Terroristia ?

23:46:16 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:16:42; Chillum: mats: I am going to hook it to a serial gps chip and make a tiny super low power war walker

23:46:45 whaack: nope definitely 2 a's, I'll pop in freenode

23:46:47 Chillum: all it does is listen

23:47:03 Chillum: there is nothing illegal about listening to radio transmission on public bands

23:47:22 Chillum: in fact it sends nothing so it is very hard to detect

23:47:32 Chillum: (anything electical can technically be detected)

23:48:00 mats: you know there are war driving communities that have likely already mapped your entire region, right

23:48:08 Chillum: mats: what fun is that?

23:48:21 Chillum: I walk anyways

23:48:58 Chillum: my raspberry pi gets 9 hours from a small battery, the ESP8266 with a low power gps receiver will run off a small battery for days

23:49:21 Chillum: it has a 2ms wake-up time so it can be in low power sleep mode and just check every 10 seconds

23:49:28 Chillum: or 5 seconds

23:49:56 mats: whatever gets you hard i guess

23:50:02 Chillum: it does, really hard

23:50:55 Chillum: I once made a "boss detector" with a raspberry pi. The bosses cell phone sent out wifi pings constantly, this told me if he was in wifi range by turning on a red light

23:50:57 mircea_popescu: Chillum you blogging this ?

23:51:07 Chillum: If I get it working I will

23:51:16 mircea_popescu: plz blog this. pics, schematics, how tos, the works.

23:51:23 Chillum: for sure

23:51:28 Chillum: source code even

23:51:33 mircea_popescu: and none of those "public blog service" shits either,

23:51:39 Chillum: I use S3 for anything I host

23:51:55 Chillum: and I use vim to make my pages

23:51:58 Chillum: that is why they are so ugly

23:52:22 Chillum: one day I will learn style sheets

23:53:35 mircea_popescu: i use vi half the time.

23:53:37 mircea_popescu: "The core problem is that C programmers think they can get away with doing much less than the Common Lisp programmer causes the computer to do. But this is actually wrong. Getting C programmers to understand that they cause the computer to do less than minimum is intractable. They would not /use/ C if they understood this point, so if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will o

23:53:37 mircea_popescu: nly make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences. Most people are not willing even to /listen/ to arguments or information that could threaten their comfortable view of their own existence, much less think about it, so when you cannot answer a C programmer's "arg

23:53:40 mircea_popescu: uments" that his way of life is just great the way it is, it is a pretty good sign that you let him set the agenda once he realized that his way of life was under threat. Since you have nothing to defend, your self-preservation instinct will not activate hitherto unused parts of your brain to come up with reasons and rationalizations for what you have done, you will not be aware that you have been taken for a ride befo

23:53:45 mircea_popescu: re it is over and you "lost"."

23:53:47 mircea_popescu: this is actually some prime rib right there.

23:53:54 mircea_popescu: i wonder if it's also actually correct.

23:54:34 Chillum: I know I am not thorough enough to use C

23:54:37 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: actually farting sarin gas and spitting bullets at your enemies would be your best bet. << Greatest challenge is storing it in the colon without absorbing it.

23:54:40 Chillum: I wish others did

23:55:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80996 @ 0.00029272 = 23.7091 BTC [+]

23:56:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095484 << this actually sounds like you could make a company.

23:56:25 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:16:59; Chillum: but if you ever wanted to add a webserver to your lamp, this is the device

23:56:36 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> what exactly would prevent me from beating the shit out of the 'villagers' << i did try to point this out, l0l

23:56:43 mircea_popescu: create a corp to market interruptors with a standard apache.

23:56:52 Chillum: mircea_popescu: there is a youtube video of a guy making a wifi controllable lamp

23:57:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you did. i parse rather than compile, admittedly.

23:57:12 Chillum: now someone can find a Lua code injection attack on your lamps webserver and use it to sniff your home network

23:57:25 Chillum: because the chip can do runtime interpreting of code

23:57:29 mircea_popescu: Chillum so make them secure.

23:57:35 Chillum: and rewrite itself while running

23:57:39 Chillum: good advice

23:57:49 mircea_popescu: i seriously think you have a marketable product here.

23:57:57 Chillum: Though embedded products are not well known for security

23:58:02 mircea_popescu: exactly.

23:58:25 Chillum: wifi lamps? Its been done

23:58:34 mircea_popescu: no. aftermarket web-accessible switches.

23:58:41 mircea_popescu: dyi type of item

23:58:49 Chillum: I am working on a 8 channel wifi relay board

23:58:52 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i used to have a huge library, i wouldnt buy a book today. << i still do, but it is shrinking, shrinking...

23:58:52 Chillum: for general purpose

23:58:55 Chillum: xmass lights and such

23:59:09 Chillum: home automation etc

23:59:30 Chillum: 8x mechanical relays that can each handle 30 amps 220v

23:59:35 mircea_popescu: only vaguely related, i wonder how well a "bid for this space in bitcoin" display advertising thing would work.

23:59:41 Chillum: with an API, at least that is my goal

23:59:55 mircea_popescu: completely decentralize media buying.