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Transcript for 10-10-2014, 1341 lines:

00:01:58 mircea_popescu: !up hagbardgroup

00:02:43 hagbardgroup: (Still reading through tutorial material)

00:03:42 mircea_popescu: good for you.

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: "The biggest thing you can write in C++ is... also an operating system. Well, maybe a little bigger. Let's say three times bigger. Or even ten times. But operating system kernels are at most, what, maybe a million lines of code? So I'd argue the biggest system you can reasonably write in C++ is maybe 10 million lines, and then it starts to break down and become this emergent thing that you have no hope of controlling,

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: like the plant in Little Shop of Horrors. Feeeeeed meeeeeee...

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: If you can get it to compile by then, that is.

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: We have 50 million lines of C++ code. No, it's more than that now. I don't know what it is anymore. It was 50 million last Christmas, nine months ago, and was expanding at 8 million lines a quarter. The expansion rate was increasing as well. Ouch."

00:04:05 mircea_popescu: guy who work[ed?] at amazon.

00:04:18 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: steve yegge?

00:04:20 mircea_popescu: seriously, 50mn lines of code ? there's no need to write 50 mn lines of code. for anything.

00:04:27 mircea_popescu: god himself uses fewer than 50mn lines of code

00:04:29 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel exactly.

00:07:28 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Funny little bit of history. Steve Y. goes on and on and on about how C++, java, etc. (algol derivatives) predictably create massively bloated codebases, gives lip service how Lisp solves these problems (which is does) and then goes back to... writing in ~ALGOL. (I asked a Googler who was recently on the same team as Steve what language they worked in - Java.)

00:07:48 mircea_popescu: https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/tour-de-babel << the origin.

00:07:48 assbot: tour-de-babel - steveyegge2

00:08:38 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel why do you think that is ?

00:09:40 gabriel_laddel: He got old and fat, making a change was too much for him. He says that there are 'problems' with (common) lisp. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/04/lisp-is-not-acceptable-lisp.html

00:09:40 assbot: Stevey's Blog Rants: Lisp is Not an Acceptable Lisp

00:09:41 kakobrekla: cause they code for living

00:10:07 gabriel_laddel: Silicon valley is basically just a slightly more white version of (¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.-> [ Luxor Centre For Businessmen ] <-.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯)

00:10:19 mircea_popescu: o.o you got that saved ?

00:10:28 gabriel_laddel: yeah.

00:10:49 mircea_popescu: now is this kinda like c or kinda like lisp, you'd say ?

00:11:08 gabriel_laddel: Anything ~ALGOL derived.

00:11:24 mircea_popescu: no. i mean the fact that you have a string stored, and an apparatus to retrieve and use it in place.

00:12:00 gabriel_laddel: Lisp thing. Emacs gave it to me in.... less than 3 seconds.

00:12:24 mircea_popescu: through a string of perl ?

00:12:33 gabriel_laddel: C-b ".notes" C-r "luxor"

00:12:50 gabriel_laddel: (C-<whatever> meaning 'control' + whatever)

00:13:03 mircea_popescu: ah but this is only half the story. you also saved it there, and saved the "notes" string somewhere etc.

00:13:13 mircea_popescu: admire the pile of crap that the whole software involved is.

00:14:10 gabriel_laddel: I don't understand what you're getting at. (emacs) Lisp still has to store things in files.

00:14:13 mircea_popescu: in other words, back to the topic : i think the people arguing that c is just the way to talk to the c-machine, aka von neumann machine have it wrong - c is just the way average people abstract. fortunately that fit into an already existing machine, but if it hadn't it'd have been forcibly fit anyway.

00:14:29 danielpbarron: ;;gettrust gabriel_laddel

00:14:29 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask gabriel_laddel!~user@c-67-161-28-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=danielpbarron&dest=gabriel_laddel | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gabriel_laddel | Rated since: Sun Aug 3 11:48:26 2014

00:16:04 danielpbarron: oh, new guy :D

00:18:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00074253 = 17.7093 BTC [+] {2}

00:19:17 thestringpuller: !s MPEX PAID

00:19:18 assbot: 83 results for 'MPEX PAID' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=MPEX+PAID

00:21:10 mod6: lol 8m additional lines per q!? that's just nuts

00:21:29 mircea_popescu: mod6 no, it's "an economy". imagine, that's the bread of what, 500 derps ?

00:21:47 mircea_popescu: at least. fifty idiots get to go around telling young women about their imminent promotion to higher-middle manager because of it

00:22:04 mod6: haha, staggers the imagination

00:22:27 mod6: and you're right, 50m lines of code? that does what!!?

00:22:32 mircea_popescu: the only conceivable purpose i can see for government would be to allocate limits. you want to write a facebook ? register with govt, get a 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot.

00:22:55 mircea_popescu: after they're done with congress. "all laws fit in 500 pages. you want new ones ? delete old ones."

00:23:06 mircea_popescu: enforced brevity ftw.

00:23:16 mod6: some kinda hard-limit ya

00:26:16 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust nanotube

00:26:16 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nanotube!~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user nanotube: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 14 via 10 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=nanotube | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nanotube | Rated since: Mon Nov 8 13:14:09 2010

00:26:37 mircea_popescu: how the hell did he get under 1

00:26:40 thestringpuller: /window 42

00:27:10 mircea_popescu: a nm

00:28:34 pete_dushenski: howdy.

00:28:41 pete_dushenski: TheNewDeal: surprised they didn't make a pitch to increase the blocksize limit << lol

00:30:11 mod6: saw a lot of action on your blog about that topic btcpete

00:31:52 mircea_popescu: "Perl has the best marketing in the world. You could write a book about how brilliant their marketing is. Sun has marketed Java with money, and Perl is almost keeping up, popularity-wise, purely on the on sheer marketing brilliance of Larry Wall and his buddies. Folks at Harvard Business School should study Perl's marketing. It's astonishing."

00:31:57 mircea_popescu: shit i wasn't aware anyone realised this

00:32:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: ya, it was a fun last 48 hours :)

00:33:03 pete_dushenski: 3000+ words of comments

00:33:14 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski anything good ?

00:33:39 pete_dushenski: hmm. let me see if i can dig up a quote or two worth repeating...

00:34:12 asciilifeform: there's no need to write 50 mn lines of code. for anything. <<<<<

00:34:59 pete_dushenski: this one by "zeke" was decidedly luzly from a few angles:

00:35:03 pete_dushenski: "Gavin has done quite a lot for the bitcoin project, and is one of the few people who can credibly represent it to lay people. Still, I agree with the Romanian school inasmuch as the blockchain increase seems unnecessary and potentially disastrous to me. It’s inviting a fork that will not be honored by a large portion of the current hash power, and the current wallet balance. Thus it is a Bad Idea. What about side

00:35:04 pete_dushenski: chains, and all the other ways that BTC can grow in real transaction volume?"

00:35:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: shit i wasn't aware anyone realised this << naggum did.

00:35:26 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu you are now the bearer of "the romanian school" torch!

00:35:51 pete_dushenski: also, what fuckin sidechainz amirite

00:35:52 mircea_popescu: o the romanian school is it ?

00:36:02 mircea_popescu: fucking hell romania is going to end up accidentally famous by mistake.

00:36:05 mircea_popescu: typical for that place.

00:36:11 pete_dushenski: lol

00:36:22 pete_dushenski: who says mistake?

00:36:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did anyone write a full analysis of it, or just mention it in passing ?

00:36:39 pete_dushenski: let's work from causes, neh?

00:36:53 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski by mistake as in, gavin fucked up.

00:37:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naggum never wrote a full anything, afaik, apart from 'a long and painful history of time'

00:37:23 pete_dushenski: aic ya that's way funnier :D

00:37:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but three or four of his posts add up to a sort of treatise on perl

00:37:48 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski wouldja consider adding a recent comments list ?

00:37:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean specifically the marketing of.

00:38:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: c is just the way average people abstract << if only. invited to reread the infamous 'the camel has two humps.'

00:38:44 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol funny you should mention that… i was toying around with that this morning, trying to add a second sidebar column a la fraudsters and… i fucking borkt the whole thing.

00:39:30 pete_dushenski: thankfully, i had made a back-up but i was pretty choked for a minute cuz the auto-save didn't include that last article about gavin's retardation

00:39:43 pete_dushenski: but all is well now!

00:39:53 asciilifeform: (short version of 'the camel' - prospective 'comp sci' students were given tests on basic things, e.g., 'a = 1, b = 2, a + b = ?' - and they separated into 2 groups, ones who had correct answrs. or at least consistent misconceptions - and ones who did not. the latter - turned out, unsurprisingly, to be unteachable.)

00:41:19 pete_dushenski: ok. 5 recent comments added below the recent articles.

00:41:31 pete_dushenski: still single sidebar

00:41:58 asciilifeform: 'thing you can write in C++ is... also an operating system...' << winblows.

00:44:58 pete_dushenski: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amid-buyback-backlash--what-else-can-slow-growing-ibm-or-bed-bath-do-163617528.html << those stilts.

00:45:40 mircea_popescu: "It doesn?t matter what the minors feel like ?honoring.? The miners will follow the full nodes; they won?t waste energy mining the fork when its coins aren?t worth the time it takes to send them to an exchange." danielpbarron << all the miners run (multiple) full nodes.

00:46:10 mircea_popescu: this is the ad-hoc, market driven fix to the problem of node disenfranchisement as ordained by his satoshiness.

00:46:49 mircea_popescu: (there's an extra bit in there, where people with a lot of exposure, financial, intellectual, emotional, w/e also run full nodes - but generally they also won't be following patently insane notions a la "let's make the blocks infinite")

00:47:21 asciilifeform: (obligatory: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3068978379837591@naggum.no.html << re c++)

00:47:22 assbot: Re: Prolog vs. Lisp - Naggum cll archive

00:49:24 mircea_popescu: "To soften my comment, I would not want to replace Gavin with some loony that thinks the USG is competent enough to undermine bitcoin in any organized way. All this talk about Mike and Gavin being stooges is absurd, and undermines my respect for much of the other (very insightful) stuff you guys write on the Internet. They can be wrong, without being corrupt."

00:49:27 mircea_popescu: o.O

00:49:40 asciilifeform: how can one even make, with any serious logical certainty, a statement like 'i have one bitcoin' without running a full node?

00:49:54 asciilifeform: (or at least, having a very good friend who does)

00:50:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does one say "i have a wife" ?

00:50:38 pete_dushenski: ha!

00:50:48 mircea_popescu: "these are my children" ? "this is my house". most property owners don't own their own torens title bureaus

00:50:58 pete_dushenski: not, i suppose, as opposed to saying "a wife has me"

00:51:39 pete_dushenski: "i have a car" (on lease for 48 months)

00:51:54 pete_dushenski: at least most people have their clothes and the groceries in their fridges

00:52:11 pete_dushenski: not that they're wise enough to brag about it

00:52:32 asciilifeform: slightly different situation here. btc user without full node is just as likely to be walking around in a barrel, deluded by dope into thinking he's driving a car (like the characters in s. lem's 'futurological congress')

00:53:12 asciilifeform: then again, world is full of bastard children and questionable wives, so perhaps similar.

00:53:25 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ty for another comment! that post deserves a plaque for the names it's attracted.

00:56:41 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski there, enjoy one more then. http://contravex.com/2014/10/07/how-a-bigger-blockchain-is-less-secure-and-why-block-size-aint-gonna-increase-any-time-soon/#comment-29734

00:56:42 assbot: How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain't Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski

00:57:18 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol. nice.

00:58:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider. measurably.)

00:58:07 pete_dushenski: also the gap between brk-a and btc narrowed by, what, 5% today?

00:58:22 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

00:58:24 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 365.81, Best ask: 366.4, Bid-ask spread: 0.59000, Last trade: 366.4, 24 hour volume: 47259.77924389, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.139461234

00:58:40 mircea_popescu: lol i stand to make a pretty penny there, don't i.

00:59:09 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: off like a bandit.

00:59:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd rather sit in a hazmat suit and read good prose than live in a meadow of paper.

01:00:27 asciilifeform: ^

01:00:52 mircea_popescu: !up Sweeters

01:01:15 pete_dushenski: man the recent comments on this theme are fugly. all title and no text. wtf.

01:03:16 mircea_popescu: "Every 15 years or so, languages are replaced with better ones. C was replaced by C++, at least for large-scale application development by people who needed performance but desperately wanted data types too. C++ is being replaced by Java, and Java will doubtless be replaced with something better in seven years ? well, seven years after it finishes replacing C++, which evidently hasn't fully happened yet, mostly becau

01:03:16 mircea_popescu: se Microsoft was able to stall it before it became ubiquitous on the desktop. But for server-side applications, C++ is basically on its way out."

01:03:19 mircea_popescu: way to be wrong.

01:03:39 asciilifeform: 'better ones' << mega-lol

01:03:40 mircea_popescu: turns out that C/C++ are sorta like me. keep being "in the process of" being superseeded periodically, then the would-be revolutionizer dies.

01:03:55 mircea_popescu: "Perl will be gone soon, too. That's because a new language called Ruby has finally been translated into English."

01:04:11 mircea_popescu: irl, ruby got raped with an insecurity stick almost as big as my schlong, and perl still reigns

01:04:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then the would-be revolutionizer dies << notice, no new machines.

01:04:38 asciilifeform: (because those cost actual money to build, among other reasons)

01:04:40 mircea_popescu: myeah.

01:04:57 mircea_popescu: well, luckily you're not a codger, so who knows what the future brings.

01:05:39 asciilifeform: 'don't wait for bus, you might be the driver' etc

01:17:47 mod6: ;;bc,stats

01:17:49 gribble: Current Blocks: 324627 | Current Difficulty: 3.500248202613323E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 326591 | Next Difficulty In: 1964 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 43040927023.6 | Estimated Percent Change: 22.96536

01:20:49 mod6: %v

01:20:50 atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 180 Ask: 225 Last Price: 255 30d-Vol: 174k 30d-High: 266 30d-Low: 180 30d-VWAP: 199

01:21:06 mircea_popescu: like the world's most stable altcoin

01:21:30 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/internet-watch-foundation-claims-bitcoin-increasingly-used-to-purchase-cp/

01:21:34 asciilifeform: quite a few are stable at 0...

01:22:21 kakobrekla: hehe

01:24:03 mircea_popescu: now this is true

01:26:00 mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie

01:26:01 gribble: I have not seen bluemeanie.

01:26:02 mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie1

01:26:03 gribble: I have not seen bluemeanie1.

01:26:07 mircea_popescu: hm

01:26:52 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2014/10/cryptocoinsnews-is-anything-but/#comment-58 check out the dramas.

01:26:54 assbot: CryptoCoinsNews Is Anything But News

01:30:38 cazalla: i'm lovin' it

01:31:28 mircea_popescu: i thought that guy was in here but apparently gribble never saw it

01:33:28 asciilifeform: !s BlueMeanie4

01:33:28 assbot: 817 results for 'BlueMeanie4' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=BlueMeanie4

01:33:51 asciilifeform: (same or not? devil knows)

01:34:26 mircea_popescu: ah ok

01:40:17 pete_dushenski: ;;seen pankkake

01:40:17 gribble: pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 days, 11 hours, 59 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <pankkake> here is 0.000195.

01:40:40 RagnarDanneskjol: I met caleb chen from ccn last weekend - seems like a nice kid and is fully cognizant of his site's derpidity - people are still eating it up, so he's all 'fuck it' - no incentive to do otherwise (besides lost dignity). apparently they have like 40 part-time writers 'on-staff'

01:41:10 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell pankkake i'm getting the following error running your node.sh script: "The following packages have unmet dependencies: udev : Breaks: plymouth (< 0.9.0-7) but 0.8.5.1-5 is to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages." << please to help!

01:41:10 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:43:10 pete_dushenski: and ima a be off to the racquet club!

01:53:06 cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, that's interesting

02:01:50 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol so maybe have him drop by

02:01:53 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

02:02:11 mircea_popescu: ;;seen BlueMeanie4

02:02:12 gribble: BlueMeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <BlueMeanie4> hello from Murica

02:02:12 RagnarDanneskjol: will do

02:02:31 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell BlueMeanie4 so what about that nxt/devwork story ?

02:02:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:08:36 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#866880 << never thought i'd see the day mircea_popescu suggested government intervention on anything

02:08:37 assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 00:22:32; mircea_popescu: the only conceivable purpose i can see for government would be to allocate limits. you want to write a facebook ? register with govt, get a 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot.

02:09:27 mircea_popescu: saying that the only thing this apple's good for is the pigs doesn't amount to a suggesting feeding the pigs.

02:09:55 gabriel_laddel: ;; google 3 generations of imbeciles was is enough

02:09:55 gribble: Buck v. Bell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell; “Three Generations of Imbeciles Are Enough” - Genomics Law Report: http://www.genomicslawreport.com/index.php/2009/06/25/three-generations-of-imbeciles-are-enough/; Eugenics: Three Generations, No Imbeciles: Virginia, Eugenics ...: http://exhibits.hsl.virginia.edu/eugenics/

02:10:07 mircea_popescu: "(yeah, there are a bunch) are going to have to realize that if Lisp is ever going to be massively successful, it needs an overhaul. Or maybe a revolution. Contrary to what some might tell you, it doesn't need a committee, and it doesn't need a bunch of money. Linux proved exactly the opposite. Lisp needs a benevolent dictator. Lisp needs to ditch the name "Lisp", since it scares people. And Lisp needs to learn from th

02:10:08 mircea_popescu: e lessons of the 45 years of languages that have followed it."

02:10:17 mircea_popescu: this is an interesitng theory. i suspect it's actually true.

02:11:13 asciilifeform: one problem - there is not actually a programming language called 'lisp'.

02:11:18 asciilifeform: not since 1962 or so.

02:11:26 thestringpuller: common lisp

02:11:27 thestringpuller: lol

02:11:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he makes this point yes.

02:11:43 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I doubt this very much. 'Lisp' simply needs managers to understand why they should order those not good enough to sling dope to write it.

02:11:47 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "other than being uncommon, common lisp is also not lisp"

02:12:03 thestringpuller: yea, which is funny.

02:12:15 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel in practice that sort of manager is a dictator.

02:12:15 thestringpuller: or at least to me.

02:12:57 thestringpuller: those not good enough to sling dope...that sounds familiar...

02:13:17 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: not necessarily. middle management worldwide likes java... why?

02:13:29 gabriel_laddel: one argument,

02:13:39 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69

02:13:40 assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs.

02:13:42 gabriel_laddel: ;; google site: loper-os.org where lisp fails

02:13:43 gribble: Loper OS: http://www.loper-os.org/; Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs.: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69; Loper OS » Lisp: http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=33

02:13:49 asciilifeform: lol!

02:13:52 mircea_popescu: because marginal hires won't ruin your codebase quite as badly ?

02:14:21 ben_vulpes: marginal hires have a hard time hacking it in lisp shops.

02:14:26 gabriel_laddel: does anyone really think that an extra 8mm LoC per quarter is ''not ruining things quite as badly?'

02:14:37 ben_vulpes: imposes this floor on hire quality, reduces need to hire as rapidly.

02:14:59 ben_vulpes: 'course to leverage that, you gotta use the thing everywhere. makes it hard for the polyglot shop.

02:15:02 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you kidding ? i doubt anyone even keeps track of mn granulairty.

02:16:04 asciilifeform: the whole concept of vast galley of slaves, fungible, working on a massive codebase, is fundamentally braindamaged.

02:16:13 ben_vulpes: ^^

02:16:18 decimation: I was cursing python's inability to easily rewrite itself today

02:16:23 ben_vulpes: "9 women, 1 month"

02:16:32 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: people not keeping track of this is the problem.

02:16:44 asciilifeform: once grasp this, the only thing left is instrument for maximizing - at the cost of burned orphanages of any and all kinds, dead puppies, kittens - abilities of individual man.

02:16:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it'd better be because im betting on it getting blown out of the water.

02:16:53 mircea_popescu: and it's the one bet i'm least confident about.

02:17:15 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: exactly.

02:17:42 mircea_popescu: well boys, this approach of yours has only the minor disadvantage that it goes exactly against the constitution of the city you live in.

02:17:55 gabriel_laddel: time for towns then, no?

02:18:01 mircea_popescu: it's not even a felony, it's outright treason.

02:18:02 mircea_popescu: sure.

02:18:34 gabriel_laddel: !s terry a davis

02:18:35 assbot: 0 results for 'terry a davis' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=terry+a+davis

02:19:09 mircea_popescu: i like how the b-a search function is self healing. not found anything ? try again!

02:20:32 asciilifeform: !s templeos

02:20:32 assbot: 3 results for 'templeos' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=templeos

02:20:34 asciilifeform: there we go.

02:20:48 decimation: the problem with lisp is that it is alient to the modern c-machine, especially the multi-core variety

02:20:50 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846772

02:20:51 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:28:42; asciilifeform: decimation: 'crazy' is the reason he actually got to work!

02:20:59 gabriel_laddel: It's a pity Terry doesn't frequent #b-a

02:21:15 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel can always drop him an invite.

02:21:23 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: nah. he mostly posts output from his biblical shannonizer.

02:21:29 asciilifeform: literally.

02:21:39 asciilifeform: (his gizmo comes with a 'talk with god' proggy)

02:21:41 mircea_popescu: decimation i don't get this. all machines are multi-core

02:21:48 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitcoinezy-claims-ezy-bit-is-a-one-stop-shop-for-new-users/

02:22:11 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: have you spoken with him privately / had to filter his comments on loper?

02:22:28 mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo for the record, i like the slightly skeptical tone of qntra reporting. tech reporting has been awash in gushing for too damned long. some classical skepticism is in dire need.

02:22:34 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he commented once, saying i must have stolen his name

02:22:36 decimation: http://xahlee.info/comp/Guy_Steele_parallel_computing.html

02:22:37 assbot: Guy Steele on Parallel Programing: Get rid of cons!

02:22:37 cazalla: btw, dude that runs that ezybit ran a now defunct seo company lol

02:23:01 asciilifeform: (which was nonsense, i stole it long, long ago from clifford simak's 'city.')

02:23:23 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Ah. In any case, imo he'

02:23:39 gabriel_laddel: s more entertaining than say ninjashotgun

02:23:39 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot gabriel_laddel

02:23:39 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask gabriel_laddel!4441a914@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.20. Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=gabriel_laddel | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gabriel_laddel | Rated since: Sun Aug 3 11:48:26 2014

02:23:54 gabriel_laddel: certainly more talented.

02:24:10 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you know how to use this thing to self voice ?

02:24:14 gabriel_laddel: yes

02:24:15 decimation: mircea_popescu: The Register is the only non-pure-pr tech news source that I know of

02:24:18 asciilifeform: i still have no idea if he's an actual nutter or merely playing the part so he gets to eat.

02:24:32 asciilifeform: hell knows, people do odder things, to eat without having to slave.

02:24:46 mircea_popescu: decimation and, note, they also display the mild, 1700s skepticism.

02:25:09 decimation: yeah that's true, need more of that around

02:25:40 decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/10/amazon_retail_store/

02:25:40 assbot: Sh** just got real: Amazon to open actual shop in New York City The Register

02:25:46 decimation: amazon has jumped the shark

02:26:46 gabriel_laddel: decimation: re, the problem with lisp... this isn't CL's problem, and not a real problem anyway. Compare to writing ~ALGOL on c-machine.

02:28:25 decimation: ?? what part isn't the problem? 'automatic parallel-ization?

02:29:46 gabriel_laddel: you're claim is that the problem with lisp is that it's not built for the c-machine. my point is that even on c-machines it's still better than anything else out there.

02:30:15 decimation: that might be true, I'm not sure I can contain the set of all possible languages in my brain

02:30:28 gabriel_laddel: elaborate..?

02:30:29 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: tricky bit here. until rather recently (2009-ish) this was debatable (sparse ecosystems of publicly-available libraries in cl to deal with unfortunately ubiquitous crud like www)

02:31:06 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I see. What I don't understand is why CLers haven't just ditched the web.

02:31:08 asciilifeform: problem (or not problem, depending on who you are) is that most cl work was and is done by 'naggum-like' figures - that is, behind closed doors, no public derping, no 'foss'

02:31:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00074114 = 16.0086 BTC [-] {2}

02:31:58 decimation: indeed, for instance from the yegge article: "We retired Mailman. That's because we have the Quality With a Name — namely, Suckiness. We suck. We couldn't find anyone who was good enough at Emacs-Lisp to make it work. "

02:32:20 asciilifeform: again with the lisp lumping.

02:32:32 asciilifeform: as if emacs lisp had anything whatsoever to do with common lisp other than using s-expressios.

02:32:36 asciilifeform: *expressions

02:32:42 decimation: python is lisp too!

02:32:45 decimation: :)

02:32:56 asciilifeform: let's call 'c', 'pascal', 'python', 'fortran' --> ALGOL.

02:33:07 gabriel_laddel: done.

02:33:33 decimation: I'm game.

02:34:13 asciilifeform: except one problem

02:34:25 asciilifeform: this dignified the crud with name of a mostly honourable ancestor.

02:34:33 decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/06/sammy_splurging_on_semiconductor_fab/

02:34:34 assbot: Hot DRAM! Samsung splurges $15 BILLION on Korean chip fab The Register

02:34:43 asciilifeform: like calling modern euroderps 'romans' (or even 'gauls', etc)

02:34:52 asciilifeform: the ducks may have come from the trucks, but how now.

02:35:08 decimation: the obvious problem with derping on better hardware is the extremely high cost hurdle

02:35:19 mircea_popescu: !up gubatron

02:35:21 decimation: derping on c-machine is essentially free

02:36:21 asciilifeform: i just love it when some clinical idiot decides to make inferences from his derpitudinous youth involving elisp on x86 to actual lisp on actual iron built for it

02:36:31 asciilifeform: esp. if ignorant of the latter

02:36:32 mircea_popescu: unfortunately ubiquitous crud like www <<< there's a major paradigm shift underplayed here. for approximately 1980 (kiler micro) to 2009, the ONLY utility of computing was www. with bitcoin, the www is a minor point, other things are major points now.

02:36:41 mircea_popescu: and ill bbs.

02:38:09 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I'm at a loss for a better name. ALGOL, ~algol or algol is fine with me. Even their honorable ancestor was part of a fruitless evolutionary tree.

02:39:21 decimation: in case folks haven't seen the latest amusement with x86: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/

02:39:21 assbot: Intel Underestimates Error Bounds by 1.3 quintillion | Random ASCII

02:44:02 asciilifeform: decimation: anyone who ever tries to actually use intel's trig functions - discovers this, yes.

02:44:36 asciilifeform: aaand,

02:44:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853034

02:44:38 assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 03:13:19; asciilifeform: phun phact. traditionally, the folks who write cpu manuals (how many people here have seen them alive? dead tree manuals) don't have access to original design specs.

02:44:44 asciilifeform: don't say i didn't warn.

02:44:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853040

02:45:02 assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 03:14:52; asciilifeform: so there is a mostly unwritten 'talmud' of differences between intel's manuals and the reality.

02:45:03 decimation: asciilifeform: in this case the error was so well-publicized intel promised to... update the docs

02:45:04 asciilifeform: etc

02:45:23 asciilifeform: afaik they don't even sell printed docs now.

02:45:29 asciilifeform: so, they'll update a pdf turd.

02:45:32 asciilifeform: big fat deal.

02:46:07 decimation: I wish I could just connect a pipe from the sse register to my own fpga machine

02:46:28 asciilifeform: decimation: what you may not know is that intel sells this. and amd as well. for $maxint.

02:46:48 asciilifeform: golden toilet for u.s. 'intelligence komyoonity'

02:46:54 decimation: yeah I've heard of the 'hybrid fpga cpu' design

02:47:28 asciilifeform: i've been trying, and failing, for some years, to get a hold of one (just one!) on the junk markets

02:47:28 thestringpuller: ;;later tell nubbins` let me know when a good time to discuss a second order with you. i think we may have sold all 6 shirts.

02:47:28 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:48:15 decimation: similar animal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2014#795151

02:48:16 assbot: Logged on 13-08-2014 23:40:47; decimation: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/212001/Catapult_ISCA_2014.pdf << microserf implemented fpga co-processors for bing search, paper is mildly interesting

02:49:26 asciilifeform: not all that similar. cpu in fpga fabric. you can do this right now

02:49:35 asciilifeform: a few hundy of 'ebay' parts.

02:49:59 asciilifeform: i'm assuming you want a specifically x86 variant for something.

02:50:19 asciilifeform: because 'xilinx' sells, by the tonne, a large fpga with built in 'ppc' cores.

02:50:23 asciilifeform: (i own several.)

02:51:06 asciilifeform: (x86 is rather too complex to actually implement in any extant fpga and still leave room for something useful on top)

02:51:19 decimation: I guess I was thinking of "connecting the pipes"

02:51:33 asciilifeform: no real way of doing this at full clock

02:51:37 asciilifeform: other than to host them on one die

02:51:47 asciilifeform: hence the rarity.

02:52:12 decimation: today I was using the xilinix ise - it's a piece of shit

02:52:17 asciilifeform: aye, yes it is.

02:52:40 asciilifeform: and there is literally no alternative (other than 'altera' - who have a considerably fouler turd)

02:53:05 decimation: I've heard that the 'synplify' synthesizer is much better, but costs golden toilet cash

02:53:16 asciilifeform: the serious fpga market (vs. 'lattice' & friends, who largely get used for minor glue logic) is a duopoly.

02:53:44 asciilifeform: decimation: understand why the actual internals are secret.

02:54:12 asciilifeform: decimation: both 'xilinx' and 'altera' make the bulk of their profit by renting out the right to use 'cores' (as they call them) - libraries, to a normal person

02:54:18 asciilifeform: e.g., ethernet card

02:54:21 asciilifeform: dram controller

02:54:25 decimation: right, or softcpu with bus turd

02:54:25 asciilifeform: mips cpu

02:54:26 asciilifeform: etc.

02:54:47 asciilifeform: they have literally no way of enforcing their copyright other than obfuscation

02:55:05 asciilifeform: hence, some of the gnarliest, moving-target obfuscation in the known world.

02:55:40 asciilifeform: (each new series of 'xilinx' chip has considerably altered internals, to make past reverser's efforts less useful)

02:56:31 asciilifeform: basically, fpga works, but all existing high-density examples are sold by scammers of a kind - who absolutely could not abide the buyer using these items as the schoolbook promised - 'reconfigurable computer'

02:56:34 decimation: the problem is that one must compile a secret 'talmud' of RTL that can be written which will actually work, as opposed to being valid

02:56:56 asciilifeform: and an even gnarlier talmud of combinations that will result in anything like usable performance

02:57:09 asciilifeform: example.

02:57:25 asciilifeform: you can read an sdram spec by, e.g., 'micron' (i did) and implement a ddr2 sdram controller.

02:57:29 asciilifeform: but it won't work

02:57:52 asciilifeform: unless you can somehow learn where the chip's fabric puts various i/o in relation to other circuitry

02:58:12 asciilifeform: so everybody ends up using the vendor's.

02:58:17 decimation: depressingly, this results in large-scale projects being soft-cpu sequential turds, rather than asynchronous combinatorial nets where possible

02:58:31 asciilifeform: because fpga in the schoolbook sense is not actually available.

02:58:33 asciilifeform: at any price.

02:58:42 decimation: yeah ask any fpga design who have attempted to write 'ddr' interface if you want to hear sadness & tears

02:58:50 asciilifeform: you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it.

02:58:51 gabriel_laddel: am I correct in assuming that documenting efforts in reverse engineering a particular xlinx model is illegal / will land one in trouble with usg?

02:59:01 asciilifeform: one fellow got pretty far

02:59:08 asciilifeform: but problem is, such efforts are quickly obsoleted.

02:59:15 decimation: eh, I doubt usg will care much

02:59:23 asciilifeform: as in, by the time you're done, the chip is no longer commercially available in quantity.

02:59:36 decimation: it's more the issue ascii points out, if you want the latest shit you are out of luck

02:59:52 gabriel_laddel: I see.

03:00:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25722 @ 0.00074334 = 19.1202 BTC [+] {4}

03:00:06 asciilifeform: thing you must appreciate, if never having worked with fpga, is that they just barely work.

03:00:19 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: do you have a link handy for the fellow who got pretty far?

03:00:36 asciilifeform: e.g., you can lay out the equivalent of a '486' and get around that performance, but only if you have some idea of the actual physical topology of the circuit.

03:02:16 asciilifeform: http://code.google.com/p/debit

03:02:17 assbot: debit - reverse-engineering tools for FPGA bitstreams - Google Project Hosting

03:02:22 asciilifeform: and elsewhere, i forget where

03:02:43 asciilifeform: http://www.fpgarelated.com/comp.arch.fpga/thread/62565/debit-xilinx-bitstream-decompiler-project-has-been-vanished-or-does-someone-know-the-url.php << censored now and again

03:02:44 assbot: debit- xilinx bitstream decompiler project has been vanished? or does someone know the URL | Comp.Arch.FPGA | FPGARelated.com

03:03:00 decimation: fyi http://www.parallax.com/microcontrollers/propeller-1-open-source

03:03:00 assbot: Propeller 1 Open Source | Parallax Inc

03:03:23 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it. << it will happen.

03:03:40 asciilifeform: decimation: there is no shortage whatsoever of open 'verilog' code for 10000+ things

03:03:51 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: decimation: thank you.

03:03:55 decimation: yeah, some of them are useful

03:04:02 asciilifeform: decimation: problem is lack of fpga with documented layout, so you aren't chained to a vendor's turdware.

03:04:29 decimation: I can't imagine that this business model of making enemies of your customers will survive

03:04:58 mircea_popescu: not with internet-connected customers. it just can;t.

03:05:12 asciilifeform: shame fpga was invented too late for soviet version

03:05:32 decimation: yeah that's a good point, why doesn't samsung or some chinese vendor bust this stuff up?

03:05:56 asciilifeform: decimation: bad fit for chinese business model

03:05:56 decimation: it's not like there's a mystery about how to design an fpga

03:06:02 asciilifeform: decimation: have to understand what fpga is used for

03:06:13 asciilifeform: it has very little role to play in the kind of items chicoms make

03:06:38 asciilifeform: mostly used in miniscule runs, prototypes - where american units generally suffice

03:06:49 asciilifeform: because it doesn't really matter what they cost

03:07:07 asciilifeform: the kind of machine that absolutely requires an fpga - simply has not been designed yet.

03:07:17 asciilifeform: and when designed - won't be chinese.

03:07:50 mircea_popescu: hm.

03:09:05 The20YearIRCloud: What kind of outlook do you guys have on silver & gold?

03:09:15 asciilifeform: i've been working on 'genuinely' reconfigurable cpu for some years now. but, understand, most of the reading i do - is material as old as i am.

03:09:19 asciilifeform: in ancient, dusty library.

03:09:29 mircea_popescu: but since losethos has been mentioned : i do suspect ninjashogun is of a similar brand, without of course the technical ability.

03:09:40 asciilifeform: because the subject 'is dead dontchaknow, study something modern like blubbazilla'

03:10:01 decimation: asciilifeform: the related topic of asynchronous design seems to be in the same state

03:10:08 asciilifeform: decimation: yes.

03:10:19 decimation: 'we don't do it because no chips and tools' 'no chips and tools because no demand'

03:10:29 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhRYGm_b9A

03:10:30 assbot: TempleOS: AfterEgypt - YouTube

03:10:37 asciilifeform: decimation: someone did build a clockless 'arm' a few years ago, an israeli firm quietly sells it for military clients, it's a footnote mostly.

03:11:24 asciilifeform: yes it is neat

03:11:27 mircea_popescu: !up devthedev

03:11:31 asciilifeform: but virtually impossible, last i tried, to actually run

03:11:37 The20YearIRCloud: clockless?

03:11:37 decimation: these folks http://apt.cs.manchester.ac.uk/projects/processors/amulet/

03:11:37 assbot: The Advanced Processor Technologies Group

03:11:43 devthedev: Good evening

03:11:44 asciilifeform: (won't go under 'vmware' or any machine i could dig up)

03:11:47 asciilifeform: losethos ^

03:12:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1 or so min. mark - the infamous 'talk to god' proggy.

03:12:37 mircea_popescu: the whole thing looks like open transactions.

03:12:45 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: my opinion - silver is an industrial metal, gold is going to be replaced by bitcoin in the long run but is still a reasonable altcoin - but note that it is not independent of gov'ts with big vaults of the stuff

03:13:20 The20YearIRCloud: You think govts are honest about their gold and metal reserves? decimation

03:13:23 mircea_popescu: it's improbable they'll move significantly either direction.

03:13:32 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: clockless - ie no clock - a cpu which executes instructions at whatever speed its logic circuits can cycle their state

03:13:45 The20YearIRCloud: I'm debating whether I want to get more BTC, PMs, or guns, or if I should balance what I have now a different way

03:14:07 The20YearIRCloud: I didn't realize that it was possible to do that, are the speeds typically much higher than what their clocked counterparts are?

03:14:12 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: they are about as honest with gold as they are with their btc holdings

03:14:43 mircea_popescu: decimation well, no. reversedly. for instance, germany claims to hold some gold it doesn't, and doesn't claim to hold any bitcoin, tho i think they do hold some.

03:14:55 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: they can be, but the problem is that they are 'difficult' to design because the soccer-ball-chasing-6-year-olds of academia & industry have declared the tech 'dead'

03:15:19 The20YearIRCloud: Germany is trying to get their gold back as it was all held in Paris, london and NYC. Out of all the countries I think they have a pretty transparent gold program, and it's showing how dishonest the US is

03:15:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00074082 = 27.6326 BTC [-] {4}

03:15:46 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:15:51 The20YearIRCloud: Isn't it the same way with large paralell programming (High multi-core stuff) as they've lagged behind on development so much that some consider it aobsolete?

03:16:34 decimation: mircea_popescu: good point. The ongoing drama with the fed & its german gold holdings is quite amusing

03:17:27 decimation: The20YearIRCloud: it's safe to say that writing software that makes efficient use of 'modern' multicore chip designs is not a simple undertaking

03:17:47 The20YearIRCloud: I wish it was easier to do, that way I could run dwarf fortress in all its glory

03:17:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guess what you and mr davis have in common.

03:18:20 decimation: lol I tried to play dwarf fortress once, it seemed like a colassal waste of time, but amusing

03:18:37 mircea_popescu: "I designed a 3 axis stepper-motor-driven milling machine 1996-1997 with a CAD/CAM package for a company I started called Home Automation and Robotic Equipment."

03:19:11 kakobrekla: its a popular thing.

03:19:27 The20YearIRCloud: It's fantastic, i'm told it has one of the worst learning curves even surpassing star control. But once you understand it, it's immensely fun

03:27:27 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

03:27:29 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 367.55, Best ask: 369.05, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 369.1, 24 hour volume: 47516.56487113, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.384866292

03:29:37 decimation: pete's link about companies on the 'buyback treadmill' is hilarious

03:30:11 The20YearIRCloud: buyback treadmill?

03:31:53 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#866926

03:31:54 assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 00:44:58; pete_dushenski: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amid-buyback-backlash--what-else-can-slow-growing-ibm-or-bed-bath-do-163617528.html << those stilts.

03:33:20 decimation: large holders of bezzlars have no idea how to profitably invest them, so they just publically embezzle them

03:33:47 The20YearIRCloud: kind of throw the entire premise out when they start talking about wealth inequality

03:33:52 mircea_popescu: i don't get how cash distribution can be held against the management.

03:34:05 mircea_popescu: they're overcapitalized and downsizing. what's wrong with that ?

03:34:26 The20YearIRCloud: "It puts less money in the hands of the people that know what they're doing - the menial laborers'

03:34:43 decimation: mircea_popescu: normally it wouldn't, unless it is supiciously coupled with said management excercising their generous options

03:34:44 mircea_popescu: the traditional route is to pursue "sexy" mergers and go bankrupt a decade later. this is better for everyone.

03:35:03 mircea_popescu: decimation a well that's a diff story. but the problem are the generous options then.

03:35:27 decimation: mircea_popescu: agreed.

03:56:00 asciilifeform: cnc << i distinctly recall kakobrekla also has one.

03:56:05 asciilifeform: (built)

03:58:29 asciilifeform: http://ultrastudio.org/en/C_gate << intro to clockless for n00bs

03:58:29 assbot: C gate - Ultrastudio.org

03:59:09 asciilifeform: incidentally, goes great with trinary logic (how? exercise for alert reader.)

04:00:46 mircea_popescu: sooo... ipad has a memory leak

04:01:04 mircea_popescu: if you search for a generic term in their package manager and keep scrolling... eventually iot crashes

04:01:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: almost every vendor proggy on that thing has leaks

04:02:08 asciilifeform: (crash on ios can, of course, result from conditions other than out-of-ram-kill)

04:02:46 mircea_popescu: apparently stevieboy's idea of apt-get is a sort of mozilla

04:03:29 mircea_popescu: and you bitch about the pile of turd that's c++/python software built on top of a c os ?

04:03:35 mircea_popescu: what's the ipad stack then.

04:03:39 gabriel_laddel: following up 20 post care package from #b-a blog roll http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758453 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EVPPZSYd

04:03:41 assbot: Logged on 16-07-2014 20:32:30; mike_c: ok - compile a list of 20 blog posts from blogs.b-a that are appropriate to target. tweet one a day @ target.

04:04:06 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel who's your target ?

04:05:16 thestringpuller: good evening hanbot or I guess morning?

04:05:53 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: The list of targets, irc is Nick Szabo, Nicholas Taleb.

04:06:04 asciilifeform: lol!

04:06:25 hanbot: good timeperiod thestringpuller! :)

04:06:32 asciilifeform: i can't picture what taleb (or for that matter herr sz) would get out of my turds

04:06:33 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I sent it to Terry A Davis, perhaps he can be convinced to write Lisp...

04:06:55 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: davis reads my site, i think; grudgingly

04:07:17 mircea_popescu: is the guy actually nuts or just being an internet person ?

04:07:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his bread and rent are paid for by usg as 'disability pension'

04:07:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so he has to be either 1) genuine nutter 2) play the part until he goes to his grave

04:08:18 mircea_popescu: o yea ? because if he stops what happens ?

04:08:27 asciilifeform: then he ends up like me, possibly

04:08:31 xanthyos: it's not difficult for an actor to get lost in that part

04:08:45 mircea_popescu: it is a pretty big part.

04:08:59 asciilifeform: 'we are what we pretend to be, so must be careful what we pretend to be'

04:09:52 asciilifeform: http://www.terna.org/enewsletter/Apr-Jun%202010/VLSI.pdf << trinary vlsi cells, for the really serious nutters

04:10:23 asciilifeform: http://dxdy.ru/topic1670-150.html << ru thread re: above.

04:10:23 assbot: : Computer Science - 11

04:11:30 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: re, what they could get out of your posts. You've rather clearly articulated the problem with the current computing stack. I'm unaware of any other person documenting the incumbent's desire to cater to the stupid. As thinking men, they must find it irritating to interface with today's machines.

04:12:47 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the crux of the matter, though, is that the only possible proof is experimental. and so what i really should've worked on, instead of essays, would've been some scam like davis has

04:13:02 asciilifeform: because it is quite impossible to carry out the proof while day job.

04:14:22 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I suppose. In any case, your essays exist.

04:14:51 asciilifeform: i've concinced perhaps... 3, 4, 5 people who actually understood what the hell the entire picture is about.

04:14:56 asciilifeform: i suppose that's more than some people can say.

04:15:05 asciilifeform: *convinced

04:16:19 mircea_popescu: there's probably thousands.

04:16:25 mircea_popescu: the trouble is, monkeys be lazy.

04:16:43 mircea_popescu: and laziness in monkeys is perhaps the most complex self-writing piece of software ever

04:16:59 asciilifeform: there's perhaps 2, 3 other monkeys who can do it also. but they're likely also stuck working for living.

04:18:11 asciilifeform: 1 of the 3 other monkeys, perhaps, knows russian (which imho is an absolute hard requirement for this particular stunt)

04:25:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7897 @ 0.00074074 = 5.8496 BTC [-]

04:27:29 cazalla: ;;later tell devthedev i changed a few things so that article is not overly promotional for altcoins or snapcard/wix

04:27:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:27:55 thestringpuller: and cazalla tellin' me he ain't an editor

04:28:03 thestringpuller: ;)

04:28:13 cazalla: thestringpuller, i said writer, not editor :P

04:28:31 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/wix-com-integration-with-snapcard-allows-sites-to-accept-bitcoin/

04:29:08 thestringpuller: how does day 8 look?

04:29:12 thestringpuller: in terms of traffic?

04:29:12 asciilifeform: https://www.bitcoinezy.com << linked from 'qntra'. mis-shapen usb drive with winblows exes, mega-lol!

04:29:13 assbot: The Easiest Way To Buy Bitcoin | BitcoinEzy

04:29:33 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what happens when one of these "secure" wallets gets exploited?

04:29:40 thestringpuller: hardware wallets*

04:29:44 asciilifeform: afaik that isn't even a 'hardware wallet'

04:29:53 asciilifeform: at least, nothing on the vendor site seems to claim it outright

04:30:19 thestringpuller: oh i was thinking of bitstash

04:30:32 *: asciilifeform not familiar with above

04:30:35 thestringpuller: http://www.bitstash.com

04:30:36 assbot: BitStash

04:30:39 cazalla: thestringpuller, 924 views for 11 articles, my only concern with this plug in is it might be tracking BingoBoingo and my own use of the site

04:31:02 asciilifeform: 'Accessed via hardened bluetooth wireless using your mobile devices....' << ahahaha that one.

04:31:28 thestringpuller: yea so when one of these things gets hacked is it an immediate game over?

04:31:39 asciilifeform: the one that picks up 'radio havana' to generate keys, yes

04:31:48 asciilifeform: game over for whom ?

04:31:52 thestringpuller: the consumer

04:31:53 mircea_popescu: the construction "isn't limited to simply Bitcoin, but also Litecoin, Ripple and Dogecoin" is broken in that it expands to "isn't limited to X, it's limited to X Y Z and K"

04:32:25 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller prolly.

04:32:55 asciilifeform: depends also if pwned by theorist in a garret somewhere, or by vendor, by design, for mass vacuuming

04:33:23 asciilifeform: although if remote pwnhole, can lead to same end.

04:33:53 asciilifeform: keys generated 'with atomospheric noise and prng' suggest latter scenario

04:34:33 thestringpuller: lol. sounds like a mole. "trust our wallet". vendor uses backdoor to steal all the consumer funds.

04:34:50 asciilifeform: not vendor per se. vendor's vendor.

04:34:57 asciilifeform: (his owner)

04:35:05 asciilifeform: but i digress.

04:36:19 thestringpuller: looks like nothing is as secure as a good 'ol paper wallet buried like old school treasure.

04:37:58 cazalla: mircea_popescu, fixed

05:05:55 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: old school treasure << 'the!' treasure thread >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402

05:05:56 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom

05:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00074068 = 15.7765 BTC [-] {2}

05:15:53 thestringpuller: thanks asciilifeform, i missed that thread.

05:17:48 thestringpuller: modern treasure hiding. i guess in international waters you have to worry about pirates?

05:18:38 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: hardest part, aside from constructing the hypothetical apparatus, is finding the site again without recourse to satellite.

05:20:20 thestringpuller: well i guess then treasure hunters shall find it in future if you bite the bullet before retrieval.

05:20:26 thestringpuller: not the first time that's happened I suppose...

05:21:00 thestringpuller: or perhaps it remains unclaimed for many lifetimes...

05:21:17 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: go fetch treasure from 5km+ down.

05:21:35 asciilifeform: in particular, while not knowing where.

05:21:39 thestringpuller: the titanic hid all but lost treasures for nearly a century...

05:22:13 asciilifeform: titanic is at ~4km, afaik - and, still there...

05:22:34 thestringpuller: this also intrigued me about dropping a message in a bottle down the marianas trench...

05:22:59 thestringpuller: but i don't think many devices could withstand the entire trip

05:24:12 decimation: thestringpuller: I think the engineering is feasible, but it certainly wouldn't be cheap. As ascii emphasized in that thread, this is for items worth >$100k 'hiding'

05:25:19 thestringpuller: i understand. my imagination likes to run wild. I was thinking of trusting a >$100k fortune in BTC to a paper wallet via treasure hiding, vs. the so-called "secure" hardware wallets

05:25:21 asciilifeform: 100k being a very conservative figure.

05:26:13 thestringpuller: but the problem asciilifeform has described makes for more effort of retrieval in the former scenario.

05:26:30 thestringpuller: if retrieval is at all possible in ones lifetime after stashing.

05:27:04 asciilifeform: trivial retrieval with hydrophone scheme (other than how to find location. learn stellar navigation.)

05:27:38 thestringpuller: does burying device on remote island (possibly uncharted) not work anymore?

05:27:42 thestringpuller: or is this method outdated.

05:27:56 asciilifeform: island is cheap to search.

05:27:58 decimation: stellar navigation is generally only as good as your time source

05:28:13 asciilifeform: decimation: dollar store quartz watch.

05:28:42 decimation: loses seconds per month, and how are you gonna set it if you can't count on 'infrastructure'?

05:28:58 thestringpuller: decimation: this is why it was so difficult to tell time in the sea during the old days.

05:29:20 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's funny how a quartz watch does what a very expensive device did during the 1700's.

05:29:28 asciilifeform: building machines today that can be counted on 50 years from now - is a solvable problem.

05:29:32 thestringpuller: in regards to sea travel

05:29:36 asciilifeform: military engineers consider it every day.

05:29:48 decimation: even in those old days they could reconstruct 'time' from solar observations & so forth, just took awhile to do so

05:30:12 asciilifeform: not the same machines as sold to consumers/chumps, yes

05:30:15 asciilifeform: but buildable.

05:30:23 thestringpuller: well you didn't have a "torch" of time when you left the mainland...at some point watches didn't exist.

05:30:42 thestringpuller: you know time in relation to your current position but not in relation to the mainland.

05:30:43 decimation: asciilifeform: indeed, the first step for someone considering 'off-the-grid' navigation would be to find a way to keep the 'fire' of accurate time burning without external aid

05:30:49 thestringpuller: longitude is hard.

05:31:42 asciilifeform: not actually hard if you've discovered electromagnetism (electric tuning fork clock, considerably simpler than harrison's chronometer, is quite easy to construct)

05:32:22 thestringpuller: was electomagnetism widely discovered at the point the chronometer came about?

05:32:41 thestringpuller: i remember there was a large bounty for the chronometer during it's inception

05:32:43 asciilifeform: nope.

05:32:52 asciilifeform: and yes, bounty.

05:33:00 decimation: nope, it would take a few $1,000 in ovenized crystal oscillators and/or rubidium (rubidium clocks have a finite lifetime though)

05:33:01 asciilifeform: (there is an - american? - film about it.)

05:33:21 asciilifeform: decimation: to locate what? an ant in the sea ?)

05:34:52 decimation: asciilifeform: hehe well certainly one would have to calculate 'how close' one must be in order to effectively trigger release

05:35:37 decimation: presumably the closer one can get, the more alternative retrieval methods become feasible

05:35:50 thestringpuller: diving 5km is pretty bad.

05:35:50 asciilifeform: if capsule floats a microphone near the thermocline (naturally, by a wire too thin to be lifted by) can 'pop' from 1000+km.

05:36:01 asciilifeform: owner - doesn't need to dive.

05:36:03 asciilifeform: at all.

05:36:06 decimation: I saw the "H1" clock at the Greenwich observatory, it was a fancy machine

05:36:08 asciilifeform: enemy - yes, has to dive.

05:36:21 decimation: owner must dive if release fails

05:36:27 thestringpuller: ^

05:36:32 decimation: or swab the bottom somehow

05:36:33 asciilifeform: if release fails - he's not an owner, any more.

05:36:39 asciilifeform: like bitcoin.

05:36:42 thestringpuller: point taken.

05:36:43 decimation: hehe a gift to neptune

05:36:45 asciilifeform: what do you own if lose key.

05:36:50 asciilifeform: your tears.

05:36:54 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2DD4ZYC.txt )

05:36:54 thestringpuller: !b 3

05:37:00 thestringpuller: grr I'll rebash that

05:37:02 assbot: Need a number of lines.

05:37:02 thestringpuller: !b

05:37:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00074049 = 1.444 BTC [-]

05:40:17 decimation: ;;ticker

05:40:19 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 376.06, Best ask: 378.68, Bid-ask spread: 2.62000, Last trade: 378.68, 24 hour volume: 48239.04792239, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.705424437

05:40:38 decimation: it will be interesting to see if this bottom holds

05:41:59 asciilifeform: http://teledynebenthos.com/product/acoustic_modems/960-series-atm-966 << off the shelf.

05:42:01 assbot: Teledyne Benthos Acoustic Modems - 960 Series ATM-966

05:42:18 asciilifeform: 2-6 km range. max depth 6km.

05:42:39 thestringpuller: 6km is pretty deep...

05:46:22 decimation: asciilifeform: re: 50 year lifetime << http://globalsp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/ru_webinar_BX_advantage_30_%20nov_12.pdf 'enterprise' servers have hilarious claimed 'mtbf' (1.7 million hours!)

05:46:56 asciilifeform: wandering decimal place? lulz

05:47:28 decimation: ;;calc 1700000/(24*364.25)

05:47:28 gribble: 194.463509494

05:48:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 30000 @ 0.00003502 = 1.0506 BTC [-] {2}

05:58:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40650 @ 0.00074045 = 30.0993 BTC [-] {2}

06:07:47 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/the-rise-and-rise-of-piracy/

06:09:18 mircea_popescu: this'd be a decent idea for an oglaf strip : a retarded indian that doesn't quite grok the entire scalping business so he's going around with a string of pubic hair patches

06:10:35 mircea_popescu: "As he packs up his BFL units to sell, he explains to his son that he threw away his bitcoins and their future because he is stupid and ignored MPOE-PR's posts on Bitcoin Talk. Despite all of this, Dan continues to wear his Butterfly Labs t-shirt till the end of the film, as if it is a remnant, a small piece of a future he will not enjoy."

06:10:38 mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!

06:11:12 cazalla: that's my interpretation

06:11:42 cazalla: he shows his kid a bitcoin difficulty chart and says look at all the people mining, these bfls are shit so im selling em

06:12:21 thickasthieves: is that like right befror it hits $1000?

06:13:19 mircea_popescu: hilarious article.

06:13:21 cazalla: dunno, i only skipped through looking for good parts

06:13:42 thickasthieves: i havent even taken the time to read 1 reddit post on the movie

06:13:55 thickasthieves: it's repelled me from the start

06:15:23 cazalla: it's not good, the only thing that stood out was the guy turned from enthusiastic to gutted, you can't miss it

06:17:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00074342 = 13.1585 BTC [+] {2}

06:27:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30072 @ 0.00074371 = 22.3648 BTC [+]

06:27:50 pete_dushenski: ;;isitup fullnode.co

06:27:51 gribble: Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.

06:27:59 pete_dushenski: ;;isitdown fullnode.co

06:28:03 gribble: fullnode.co is down

06:28:09 pete_dushenski: such lulz

06:28:48 pete_dushenski: praise be to pankkake for calling their ass out back in june http://pankkake.headfucking.net/2014/06/27/fullnode-co-is-a-scam/

06:28:49 assbot: Fullnode.co is a scam | pankkake

06:30:19 punkman: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/

06:30:19 assbot: Intel Underestimates Error Bounds by 1.3 quintillion | Random ASCII

06:31:23 decimation: punkman: already beat you to it: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#867122

06:31:25 assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 02:39:21; decimation: in case folks haven't seen the latest amusement with x86: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/

06:31:34 punkman: oh

06:32:19 punkman: more lulz from twatter https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzjxrFYCMAAw-Kh.jpg

06:33:21 pete_dushenski: punkman: ha! nice.

06:33:25 mircea_popescu: has a point.

06:33:27 decimation: lol mormon as a branch of methodist

06:34:01 mircea_popescu: seems reasonable.

06:34:03 mircea_popescu: where'd you put it ?

06:34:21 mircea_popescu: it's definitely "colorful neoprotestant"

06:34:24 decimation: I guess one could make an argument, given the *

06:35:28 pete_dushenski: decimation: they both had found the teachings of one particular man to be worth branching off for

06:35:42 pete_dushenski: i think i just mentioned that in a footnote recently...

06:36:05 pete_dushenski: http://contravex.com/2014/10/02/thank-your-lucky-trolls/#footnote_3_1436

06:36:06 assbot: Thank Your Lucky Trolls | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski

06:36:20 pete_dushenski: "Methodism is like Mormonism in that it follows the life and teachings of a recently living man. Methodism follows Britain John Wesley (1703–1791) and Mormonism follows American Joseph Smith (1805–1844). Maybe you can start a branch of Christianity too!"

06:36:41 pete_dushenski: one right after the other.

06:37:09 pete_dushenski: i guess i shoulda written "maybe you can start a branch of judaism too!"

06:38:33 mircea_popescu: brit ?

06:41:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if capsule floats a microphone near the thermocline (naturally, by a wire too thin to be lifted by) can 'pop' from 1000+km. << unless someone/thing tried to lift it prior

06:42:57 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BziOkTiCQAAUYdl.png

06:43:20 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: king of the britains?

06:43:42 mircea_popescu: "follows Britain John Wesley " is broken

06:44:13 decimation: modern Methodism has degenerated into becoming fairly indistinct from the "liberal religion"

06:46:31 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ya… it is.

06:46:38 mircea_popescu: generally, the proposition that you'll "go to heaven" through a certain recipe is doomed to create monsters

06:48:12 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/#comment-108628

06:48:16 assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

06:48:16 mircea_popescu: they're back

06:48:25 punkman: dat title

06:49:26 pete_dushenski: ;;google itulip

06:49:27 gribble: iTulip.com - The Contrary Market View - For Independent Financial ...: http://www.itulip.com/; Forum Actions - iTulip.com: http://www.itulip.com/forums/; 2013 Review and 2014 Forecast - Part I: The Last Bubble - Eric ...: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php/26677-2013-Review-and-2014-Forecast-Part-I-The-Last-Bubble-Eric-Janszen

06:51:28 mircea_popescu: "iTulip.com Ad Policy As of March 31, 2006, you well see Goggle AdSense ads on iTulip.com."

06:52:16 decimation: lol dogecoin volume has suddenly doubled on cryptsy the past few weeks

06:57:25 mircea_popescu: shit assets don't simply die

06:58:01 mircea_popescu: they go to the pink sheets, to live as one of a few well specified chumpatron models

07:05:17 punkman: hah https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By_p21oCcAARuyp.jpg

07:06:10 mircea_popescu: can you translate ?

07:07:03 punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_didn%27t_you_invest_in_Eastern_Poland%3F

07:07:03 assbot: Why didn't you invest in Eastern Poland? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

07:08:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00074523 = 12.5199 BTC [+]

07:10:52 punkman: ah somethingawful already did it http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2013/phriday/poland/zombieswithblenders_01.png http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2013/phriday/poland/Entenzahn_01.png

07:26:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28828 @ 0.00074523 = 21.4835 BTC [+]

07:54:37 thickasthieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/cl5hng3

07:54:38 assbot: naspo comments on WARNING: Bitcoin Address Blacklists have been forced into the Gentoo Linux bitcoind distribution by Luke-jr against the will of other core devs. Gentoo maintainers are clueless and not reversing the change. Boycott Gentoo now.

07:55:43 thickasthieves: i know bingo mentioned it used luke's patches, but i didnt know the patches has blacklists

07:55:48 thickasthieves: bliacklists...

08:05:43 bounce: uh. yay, let's make bitcoin more like paypal and visa/mastercard, and arbitrarily shut out parties you don't like

08:07:06 RagnarDanneskjol: speaking of: 01:00 <#bitcoin-dev> petertoddgwillen: haha, yeah they do - mircea popescu had me buy him SomethingAwful passes with my credit card a few times so he could troll there

08:17:11 mircea_popescu: not like it actually does anything. bout as retarded as bayesian spam filtering.

08:17:33 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol it's in the logs.

08:18:13 RagnarDanneskjol: ahh

08:25:46 thickasthieves: i can appreciate luke-jr excercising his own voting/filtering rights though

08:25:56 thickasthieves: patching it into defaults is pretty lame

08:27:30 bounce: it's a curious discussion. he gets to patch the gentoo bitcoind because he's a core dev? why isn't that patch in mainline then?

08:30:18 assbot: luke-jr +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

08:30:44 thickasthieves: !up luke-jr

08:30:50 Luke-Jr: it's not appropriate for mainline; I'd reject it myself

08:31:22 thickasthieves: this turned into a whole fud in the trader chat, theyre all FINCEN WANTZ BLACKLISTSZ!

08:31:28 mircea_popescu: gentoo decided they'll let bitcoin in there as a luke thing.

08:31:33 mircea_popescu: hardly a reason to "boycott gentoo"

08:31:46 bounce: so what makes it appropriate for gentoo?

08:31:55 mircea_popescu: in fact, anyone with the werewithal to boycott as much as a donut stand can just as well patch out whatever.

08:31:56 thickasthieves: i'm like dude, look at the list

08:32:05 Luke-Jr: bounce: it's better than nothing, until we have a better spam filter implementation

08:32:12 bounce: uhm. no.

08:32:14 Luke-Jr: also, in Gentoo, it's optional

08:32:25 Luke-Jr: because we can just apply the patch or not

08:32:51 bounce: turns out it ended up as the default option, so that's one argument down the drain.

08:33:02 mircea_popescu: as per usual, reddit makes a mess of things. they're like ten year olds, those people. "o did you hear sugar kills ? sure, it killed sam's dog!"

08:33:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00074256 = 33.7865 BTC [-] {2}

08:33:48 mircea_popescu: cue memes of an antropomorphic sugar cube with chainsaw

08:33:53 Luke-Jr: bounce: still an option

08:34:02 Luke-Jr: it *should* be default, since it's better

08:34:05 thickasthieves: ok how many people using the bitcoin wallet in gentoo would blindly use this default

08:34:07 thickasthieves: 7?

08:34:15 Luke-Jr: I don't have that exact number.

08:34:32 thickasthieves: we'll say 7 then

08:34:39 bounce: then that's still no argument. also you're not answering the question.

08:34:43 mircea_popescu: it looks eerily accurate

08:35:43 Luke-Jr: bounce: it's appropriate for everyone, just not every*thing*

08:35:54 thickasthieves: uhh

08:35:58 thickasthieves: which people are things?

08:35:58 Luke-Jr: bounce: and we wouldn't want to *force* it on anyone

08:36:05 Luke-Jr: thickasthieves: the reference code is a thing

08:36:17 bounce: this makes no sense

08:36:24 thickasthieves: the default in gentoo is a thing

08:38:15 mircea_popescu: look, it's really simple. gentoo doesn't give a shit about bitcoin, it's yet another crackpot app as far as they're concerned. at some internal review it was determined it's much too buggy to be in main, and so it got put wherever they put retarded shit, and put someone in charge of it, in this case luke. the someone in charge is doing weird shit to it, as you'd expect of someone in charge of a buggy piece of shit not

08:38:15 mircea_popescu: in main, whether it be luke or not.

08:38:25 mircea_popescu: none of this is remarkable, but in fact functioning as intended.

08:39:09 Luke-Jr: thickasthieves: the default in gentoo is for highly technical users to judge; the reference code is for developers to read

08:39:19 thickasthieves: basically, it's his domain until it isnt

08:39:21 bounce: well, at least someone thought up a nice logo for bitcoind-ljr.

08:39:24 mircea_popescu: if you're the sort of gentoo/linux/foss user that downloads and runs buggy pieces of shit, you're expected to either a) be conversant in code and fix em or else b) not run production.

08:56:33 thickasthieves: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/did-todays-satan-signal-sp-futures-give-all-clear-selling-begin

08:59:21 mircea_popescu: orly ?

09:01:18 mircea_popescu: lmao. dude... anyone can do that. including the derp writing the report.

09:02:39 thickasthieves: ;;estimate

09:02:40 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 32873538172.4 based on data since last change | 34777196895.2 based on data for last three days

09:06:33 mircea_popescu: btw BingoBoingo http://www.majesticseo.com/charts/backlinks-discovery-chart/qntra.com?w=677&h=200&IndexDataSource=F

09:07:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/bd5b619c6a586ec6d7078a5480ab241f73d58310f672d53d573aa45bb850c818-1G3pUAfJhsdZU8MYYnHxD1gW1bYpoRaDL3.txt

09:07:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28697 @ 0.0007432 = 21.3276 BTC [+] {2}

09:07:09 mircea_popescu: so it turns out deedbot got haxed.

09:07:26 mircea_popescu: ;;rated molokodesk

09:07:26 gribble: You rated user molokodesk on Tue Sep 30 07:54:20 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: b-a deedsbot dev. AAA would hire again..

09:07:32 mircea_popescu: ;;rate molokodesk -1 meh.

09:07:33 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user molokodesk has changed from 2 to -1.

09:08:25 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's the .com, the parking lot control company

09:09:02 mircea_popescu: a right you are. http://www.majesticseo.com/charts/backlinks-discovery-chart/qntra.net?w=677&h=200&IndexDataSource=F << looks much better

09:10:24 mircea_popescu: !up gud

09:10:26 mircea_popescu: !up gustaf

09:11:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00074421 = 17.6378 BTC [+]

09:15:17 mircea_popescu: !up disident

09:15:31 disident: hi huys

09:15:57 RagnarDanneskjol: hiya dis

09:16:48 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell thestringpuller New high, 924 views over 459 persons per Wordpress stats

09:16:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:18:26 Apocalyptic: %d

09:18:28 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 315045.65 in 353 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -83.23

09:37:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56214 @ 0.0007468 = 41.9806 BTC [+] {4}

09:42:54 mircea_popescu: wp stats are junk rly

09:45:31 BingoBoingo: Yeah, but until the quantcast is fed...

09:49:14 BingoBoingo: I'll be back in a few hours

10:07:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15671 @ 0.00074875 = 11.7337 BTC [+]

11:11:48 thickasthieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2iuf4s/lukejrs_public_apology_for_poor_gentoo_packaging/

11:11:49 assbot: Luke-Jr's public apology for poor Gentoo packaging default : Bitcoin

11:11:52 thickasthieves: ta-da!

11:42:47 bounce: well, that's something. IMO a blacklist on actors in the system is still entirely the wrong thing to even have. if you want to filter "abusive" txes you'd have to have some objective measure and preferrably a deterministic detection algorithm of abusiveness.

11:43:47 thickasthieves: http://www.coindesk.com/digital-asset-liquidity-exchange-melotic-closes-1-175-million-seed-round/ "curated digital assets"

11:43:47 assbot: Digital Asset Liquidity Provider Melotic Closes $1.175 Million Seed Round

11:44:29 RagnarDanneskjol: oh lord

11:45:08 bounce: why does one need a million to start an exchange?

11:45:55 thickasthieves: cuz you want your devs to stay for more than 10min?

11:46:33 thickasthieves: $1m aint much for an exchange

11:46:54 thickasthieves: it's a lot for a Bitfunder, sure

11:47:34 RagnarDanneskjol: but its Curated!

11:56:42 thickasthieves: curated is like saying they take responsibility for 3rd part listings, but not

11:56:47 thickasthieves: party*

11:56:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13479 @ 0.00074436 = 10.0332 BTC [-]

11:57:22 RagnarDanneskjol: ha

12:03:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35324 @ 0.00074432 = 26.2924 BTC [-] {2}

12:40:56 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. < O_o

12:42:37 RagnarDanneskjol: yea good times. punkman says he's making progress on a pyth version

12:42:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5640 @ 0.00074116 = 4.1801 BTC [-]

13:24:13 *: xanthyos

13:39:56 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/ Odds: 76(Y):24(N) by coin, 74(Y):26(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.05 BTC. Current weight: 66,414.

13:40:53 asciilifeform: re: gentoo & ljr: i'd like to suggest a new patch to the latest bitcoind. if the day of the month is odd, format hdd.

13:41:18 asciilifeform: when read the news, had the idea that ljr was trying to accomplish something like the above.

13:41:38 asciilifeform: (put a bullet through a long-overdue zombie)

14:09:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40614 @ 0.00074025 = 30.0645 BTC [-] {5}

14:31:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00074172 = 28.2224 BTC [+]

14:49:29 wywialm: hi all

15:03:45 mike_c: I feel a little dirty. I'm getting more traffic from google now because I have a page for every bitbet. oops.

15:28:55 kakobrekla: gah mike same here!

15:35:56 thickasthieves: you can always be together at least

15:41:51 mike_c: if we were cool enough it would just be one infintiely scrolling page.

15:44:55 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << deets?

15:56:46 thickasthieves: market's bleedin

15:56:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00074442 = 19.1316 BTC [+]

15:59:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 2.71397168 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 236 satoshi per share

16:00:13 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker

16:00:14 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 354.97, Best ask: 355.76, Bid-ask spread: 0.79000, Last trade: 354.97, 24 hour volume: 35089.03268405, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 390.0, 24 hour vwap: 369.022564073

16:00:57 mike_c: he meant the play exchanges (nasdaq)

16:01:02 thickasthieves: meant wall st, btc will probly rebound soon

16:02:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.11149742 BTC to 15`474 shares, 7183 satoshi per share

16:08:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 130 @ 0.01391002 = 1.8083 BTC [-]

16:11:14 ben_vulpes: i'm trying the taleb approach to noise reduction

16:11:17 thickasthieves: ;;estimate

16:11:18 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 38036136893.6 based on data since last change | 34836558052.4 based on data for last three days

16:11:51 thickasthieves: youre gonna tweet out of phase noise all day?

16:12:10 ben_vulpes: haw

16:12:16 ben_vulpes: no, i'm just trying to not watch the markets.

16:12:23 ben_vulpes: "don't denominate the btc in usd, and vice versa"

16:12:40 thickasthieves: pretty thick nerdy joke though, tyvm

16:13:02 ben_vulpes: ya i was surprised ;)

16:13:23 thickasthieves: insultplement

16:14:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24495 @ 0.00074172 = 18.1684 BTC [-]

16:15:03 *: ben_vulpes rolls eyes

16:16:16 thickasthieves: ;;8ball will btc ever see $350 again?

16:16:17 gribble: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.

16:16:38 thickasthieves: pro ta

16:19:52 asciilifeform: afaik nobody actually cares how many pictures of ben franklin one can get for 1 btc. but if 1 btc buys, say, computer, or tractor, or half a year of food, etc.

16:22:00 thickasthieves: the curve would drop off at a point, right?

16:23:16 thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world

16:25:52 thestringpuller: what is this luke-jr thing going on?

16:26:53 thickasthieves: the logs sum it up

16:31:01 thestringpuller: flipping back

16:32:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00074122 = 10.6736 BTC [-] {2}

16:39:58 thestringpuller: ah not so bad.

16:40:06 thestringpuller: glad it was caught tho

16:42:26 penguirker: New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/10/10/guide-to-setting-up-a-remote-bitcoin-node-for-20-per-year/

16:43:40 pete_dushenski: so i riffed off pankkake's node tutorial and inserted a few more instructions

16:44:05 pete_dushenski: i also managed to sort out the errors i was encountering in debian.

16:44:08 pete_dushenski: such skillz!

16:44:16 thestringpuller: https://i.imgur.com/ZnxT1kG.jpg

16:44:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32872 @ 0.00073946 = 24.3075 BTC [-] {2}

16:44:54 pete_dushenski: there are now less than 7000 active nodes :(

16:45:20 The20YearIRCloud: What's luke-jr do?

16:45:25 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << preventing this was only $1200/mo indefinitely ;)

16:45:40 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not even, different pentester.

16:45:55 pete_dushenski: o hm.

16:45:59 Apocalyptic: <pete_dushenski> there are now less than 7000 active nodes :( // I don't know where you're getting your data from, but if it's solely based on https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ it's wrong

16:45:59 assbot: Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes

16:46:03 asciilifeform: so back to telegraph ?

16:46:10 Apocalyptic: as these only publish publicly reachable nodes

16:46:12 asciilifeform: go hax telegraph.

16:46:22 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you really should know better than taking bitcoin "foundation" shit at face value yo.

16:46:52 pete_dushenski: Apocalyptic: aic

16:47:01 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: how did i do that?

16:47:25 *: asciilifeform read the published script, sees nothing to verify installation of particular known-hygienic classical ver. of bitcoind

16:47:58 mircea_popescu: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/static/img/bitcoin-foundation.png

16:48:18 mircea_popescu: right under "this project is powered by"

16:48:26 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: this i know! any suggestions for how to remedy this??

16:48:45 mircea_popescu: nothing good short of running some decent nodes

16:49:08 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: and where might i find the scripts for this?

16:49:25 mircea_popescu: for running a node you mean ?

16:49:26 pete_dushenski: 0.9.3 is obviously dirt but how would one go about installing 0.6.x on a vps?

16:49:34 pete_dushenski: ya

16:50:07 mircea_popescu: well you get the code off the repository and compile it

16:50:13 mircea_popescu: or if you trust anyone, you get a binary from them

16:50:15 pete_dushenski: the instructions in my "guide" definitely need improvement. currently point people towards latest bitcoind

16:50:22 pete_dushenski: as per pankkake's script

16:50:55 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: right.

16:51:13 mircea_popescu: generally the people involved in bitcoin to this level kinda have the history, and a complete file of historical versions and so on.

16:51:32 mircea_popescu: i guess it's an interesting question, "what's the new guy to do". bunch of playing catchup it seems

16:51:51 thestringpuller: how did deedbot get hacked?

16:51:58 asciilifeform: n00b, as in any serious business, must apprentice to another.

16:52:09 *: pete_dushenski now accepting offers for binary of bitcoind 0.6.x for contravex guide.

16:52:12 asciilifeform: or make good friends with the nuts and bolts alone, for ages.

16:53:06 mircea_popescu: but actually his is a legitimate request. i guess im adding this to the "wanted maintainer for eulora binaries" thing : wanted maintainer for bitcoin binaries.

16:53:18 mircea_popescu: anyone want to do a bunch of compiling and sign stuff ?

16:53:21 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ketchup is fine. just have to have a little direction :)

16:54:01 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron or maybe bingoboingo?

16:54:19 asciilifeform: did somebody once put up a bounty for ms-dos build of bitcoind ('slip/ppp' over rs232 for netpipe, presumably) ? or did i dream this

16:55:03 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pankkake hey listen, how much would you want to compile and sign a bunch of code ? specifically eulora codebase and proper bitcoind (.6-.7 versions) ? gentoo and whatever else you can stomach.

16:55:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:55:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they did i don't recall it

16:55:35 asciilifeform: must have been dream.

16:56:42 mircea_popescu: tbh the msdos stack bug carnival + bitcoin bug carnival would be one sad hell.

16:59:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] [PAID] 1.75950926 BTC to 29`438 shares, 5977 satoshi per share

16:59:55 pete_dushenski: following footnote added to "the node guide": Disclaimer! This Guide sets up the latest version of bitcoind, which is obviously a piece of fucking Bitcoin Fundation shit on a stick. This Guide will be updated with instructions on setting up bitcoind 0.6-0.7 asap.

17:02:06 bounce: dos can talk ethernet, see "crynwr" packet drivers for one.

17:02:40 mircea_popescu: bounce does it talk internet well tho ?

17:04:52 thestringpuller: ;;seen nubbins`

17:04:52 gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 0 hours, 12 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <nubbins`> ;o

17:05:22 bounce: noooo, not really. it's dos.

17:07:05 mircea_popescu: kinda my point. bitcoind makes a bunch of assumptions about what it can do to the internet

17:07:16 asciilifeform: dos can talk ethernet << you want something as hardware nonspecific as possible.

17:07:18 asciilifeform: hence rs232.

17:07:19 mircea_popescu: wasn't exactly "designed from the ground up with portability in mind"

17:07:39 thestringpuller: bitcoin is rather portable tho

17:07:56 thestringpuller: as opposed to say a video game...

17:08:08 mircea_popescu: a qt based video game ? no.

17:08:21 asciilifeform: if seriously considering this, note that you will need a number of nontrivial bolt-ons - ability to mount >2gb file system, for one thing

17:08:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what sonny, you're too good for volume swaps ?

17:08:54 mircea_popescu: INSERT NEXT DISK AND PRESS OK

17:08:55 asciilifeform: (easiest solution: forget file system in the 1st place, just use raw block device. and then you don't even need msdos for anything.)

17:10:16 mircea_popescu: you do, yes, inasmuch as afaik it's compiled on 16 bit with a bunch of strange as what's maxint. won't even be able to reference half the arrays becayse they smash various stacks

17:10:31 asciilifeform: communicate with net through slip, via one serial line; accept commands & return output through another; deal with key material through a third.

17:10:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who said anything about 16bit. dos4gw!

17:11:18 mircea_popescu: well if that's how you're going to go about it, how about running deathtrack in an emulator while linux handles bitcoin and call it a msdos bitcoind ?

17:11:28 mircea_popescu: but dos4gw is NOT ms-dos is it.

17:11:28 asciilifeform: lol

17:11:37 asciilifeform: hence idea, just dispense with the msdos

17:11:44 asciilifeform: and run on metal.

17:11:51 mircea_popescu: "my solution for fixing this guy's liver is to dispense with the guy"

17:12:09 asciilifeform: they shoot horses don't they (tm)

17:12:12 mircea_popescu: "the liver is fine, it's all that other shit sround it"

17:13:29 bounce: "something as hardware nonspecific as possible" meaning the shittiest and slowest option you can think of is a bit of a non-argument really.

17:13:35 asciilifeform: obligatory:

17:13:36 asciilifeform: http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html

17:13:36 assbot: Return Infinity - Pure64

17:13:53 mircea_popescu: bounce i think stan's a bit of a masochist rly.

17:14:00 asciilifeform: (i have my own very similar widget, that i've used for 'number crunching' tasks where an os just wastes cycles)

17:14:21 bounce: you'd need a tcp/ip stack linked to your program meaning that as soon as it quits the box is off the 'net, but whatever it's configured to use it'll use.

17:15:00 asciilifeform: people act as if tcp/ip were a moon rocket

17:15:09 asciilifeform: that no one man could ever hope to repeat with own hands.

17:15:33 mircea_popescu: but it is. and you can repeat with own hands, as a model

17:15:36 mircea_popescu: not as an actual moon rocket.

17:16:10 bounce: oh, you can implement a tcp/ip stack, apparently not too much work. making it work well, especially tcp, is going to be a bit more work though.

17:16:28 mircea_popescu: making it take off and become what EVERYONE uses is going to be a lot more work than that.

17:16:31 bounce: no idea how many man-hours or how it compares to, say, implementing a new compiler for some nicely convoluted language.

17:16:39 mircea_popescu: lisp never managed, for instance. neither did python. etc.

17:16:45 Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, a shame the website thought it would be a good idea to use javascript popups as links

17:16:59 asciilifeform: lol i never see popups

17:17:04 Apocalyptic: neither do I

17:17:28 Apocalyptic: I just see links like "javascript:popCentered('pure64-manual.html',%20'900',%20'450',%20'manual');" and makes me sad

17:17:29 mircea_popescu: bounce not nearly as hard as a compiler, if you mean a tight optimizing compiler. otherwise, rms has been writing compilers in a day and a half on emacs.

17:17:31 asciilifeform: for all i know, it formats your hdd if you're running win98

17:17:32 mircea_popescu: they suck, but hey.

17:17:32 asciilifeform: or the like.

17:18:15 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic the notion of javascript:pop makes me sad.

17:18:34 mircea_popescu: did they implement javascript:sendushatemail(); ?

17:19:22 asciilifeform: anyway the link is because that fellow's site is the only place where you find everything you need to initialize an x86-64 all in one place.

17:19:43 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol i read "send-dush-hate-mail"

17:20:01 mircea_popescu: ate mail lol

17:20:24 asciilifeform: last version i read, disk i/o was implemented via 'pio' vs dma, so not optimal. but ought to suffice for just about any practical use.

17:20:25 pete_dushenski: with cheez.

17:20:53 asciilifeform: 'send u shate mail'

17:21:21 asciilifeform: ('shate' - past tense of 'shit' in world where shitting and eating are closely linked semantically more so than for us? as in 'ate')

17:22:26 mircea_popescu: in english it's actually shit shat shat

17:22:34 asciilifeform: aye

17:22:47 asciilifeform: english loses.

17:22:49 mircea_popescu: eat ate ate is reasonably related.

17:24:37 pete_dushenski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/09/we_have_more_to_learn_says_scientist_antarctic_sea_ice_at_all_time_record/

17:24:38 assbot: Antarctic ice at ALL TIME RECORD HIGH: We have more to learn, says boffin The Register

17:24:54 pete_dushenski: those poor, cute penguins!

17:26:14 The20YearIRCloud: RentalStarter dividend announced - 0.00003100 per share

17:27:08 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski oh, that's how you say "we fucked up royally and lost any possible shred of crediblity" in government-scientistalese now ? "we have more to learn" ?

17:27:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally it's 'more studies needed'

17:27:23 mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why it's unwise for people aspiring to science to get involved in politics.

17:27:24 asciilifeform: (in usa)

17:27:41 mircea_popescu: if you support policy with your "findings" you ruin your career once those findings turn out to be not truth, but mere science.

17:28:39 mircea_popescu: because no, no study produced by ANY PERSON who ever produced a "global warming" piece of "research" can ever be used for any scientific purpose whatsoever.

17:28:43 mircea_popescu: they're dead, for that profession.

17:28:47 bounce: more of a problem with politics' unhealthy relationship with science-as-convenient-truth than a problem in science. though science has its share of problems.

17:29:05 mircea_popescu: bounce not a problem of science, of course, but a problem of scientists, actual and aspiring.

17:29:24 asciilifeform: if only it were just that one field, that was lysenkoized.

17:29:34 mircea_popescu: for instance, about 98% of english speaking people involved in earth studies just rendered themselves

17:29:47 asciilifeform: !up devthedev

17:29:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform matters not. the lord doesn't aim to kill sin, merely as many sinners as can get hands on.

17:30:22 devthedev: You're right mircea_popescu

17:30:27 mircea_popescu: why ty.

17:31:25 mircea_popescu: !up disident

17:31:29 mircea_popescu: get in the wot will you.

17:32:20 asciilifeform: http://www.vaikan.com/man-vs-machine << mega-lol. chicom lifted the ancient turd.

17:32:25 assbot: | IT

17:34:12 pete_dushenski: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2014/10/09/we_have_more_to_learn_says_scientist_antarctic_sea_ice_at_all_time_record/#c_2323490

17:34:13 assbot: Antarctic ice at ALL TIME RECORD HIGH: We have more to learn, says boffin The Register Forums

17:34:53 pete_dushenski: "The Earth hasn't warmed for > 18 years and counting. CO2 meanwhile continues to increase. Ergo. No connection between CO2 and global temperature. CAGW is false."

17:35:13 devthedev: Yeah, I'm not pro climate change

17:35:25 mircea_popescu: am i the only one who is amused by the strict similarity between the "o we know how climate works ; listen to us to fix what's broken with earth's industry" of these muppets and the "o, we know how hardware will work in the future ; listen ot us to fix what's broken with bitcoin" of the BF sponsored muppets ?

17:35:27 thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/2ismvu/a_moment_of_silence_please/cl5cedf

17:35:28 assbot: truthermn2 comments on A moment of silence please...

17:35:48 mircea_popescu: it seems the exact same sort of entirely broken, pseudoscientific, narcissistic gung-ho idiocy

17:36:08 bounce: the google translation contains a typical english grammar error (it's instead of its). how chinesely interesting.

17:37:26 mike_c: ;;seen diana_coman

17:37:26 gribble: diana_coman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <diana_coman> I'm to blame for Sweete__ being here, since he pm-ed me about trading and I asked him why wasn't he in here if he was a trader

17:37:37 devthedev: Bitcoin.org - Website contains prohibited File Sharing content.

17:37:48 mircea_popescu: lolwut ?!

17:38:06 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's exactly that parallel: both teams of tards belong to a religion sans eglise

17:38:24 mircea_popescu: then zeke is all "o, not possible to be stooges". duh. what else are they ?

17:38:36 devthedev: mircea_popescu: It's on the school's blacklist.

17:38:48 mircea_popescu: convenient idiots ? tyvm, it's exactly anderpopolous' line. "i'm not really shilling, i'm just stupid. buy my shit!"

17:39:22 thestringpuller: I can't write software so I wrote a book!

17:39:31 asciilifeform: as i understand, a genuine 'useful idiot' by definition has to act unwittingly

17:39:35 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, like Karpeles and the like

17:39:57 asciilifeform: otherwise he's just 'useful' (while possibly also, 'idiot')

17:40:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's such bs. you know how the soviets worked, right ? all the scum reporting to the nkvd "had to", right ?

17:40:15 mircea_popescu: they weren't really aware what it is they're doing, right ?

17:40:20 asciilifeform: lol

17:40:26 asciilifeform: those aren't 'useful idiots' thought

17:40:29 mircea_popescu: half of leningrad died in one night because a bunch of people "weren't really doing" what they were doing.

17:40:30 asciilifeform: those are 'useful'

17:40:32 mircea_popescu: laissez svp.

17:41:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581041

17:41:15 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver

17:41:33 mircea_popescu: the female ability to reclassify rape as consensual and consensual as rape and to negotiate her own presence in the circumstances of her being does exactly jack shit for any discussion of reality.

17:42:05 mircea_popescu: which is why business has the concept of "knew or should have known". cuz it makes exactly no difference whether he "actually" knew.

17:42:29 asciilifeform: for purposes of chumpatronic engineering, it does indeed matter whether the chump needs a leash, coaxing, or mere suggestion to jump into the hopper.

17:42:50 mircea_popescu: these aren't distinguishable in the field. the nominal distinction follows mood or at best tradition.

17:42:57 mircea_popescu: objective difference there isn't.

17:43:32 asciilifeform: makes a difference what part of his hindbrain you pwned to get him to walk the plank

17:43:39 asciilifeform: e.g., lust, sloth, avarice

17:44:02 pete_dushenski: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/releases << 0.6-0.7 zip and tar files are here, just unsure how to modify pankkake's node.sh script with them…

17:44:03 assbot: Releases bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

17:44:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these are also not pure categories in nature. their distinction follows tradition

17:44:41 asciilifeform: sure.

17:44:57 asciilifeform: but engineer must live with brute abstractions at times.

17:45:07 mircea_popescu: no argument, but let's not forget they aren't in the world.

17:45:25 asciilifeform: 'map is not territory, but the territory does not fit in your glove compartment.'

17:45:33 mircea_popescu: quite.

17:47:09 thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2iud0a/bitcoin_history_the_bearwhale_of_2012/

17:47:10 assbot: Bitcoin history: The BearWhale of 2012 : Bitcoin

17:48:30 asciilifeform: !s bot rape

17:48:30 assbot: 7 results for 'bot rape' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bot+rape

17:48:32 asciilifeform: ^ obligatory

17:50:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00074021 = 5.5886 BTC [+]

17:52:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15914 @ 0.00073941 = 11.767 BTC [-] {2}

17:53:55 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/10/ebola-and-five-stages-of-collapse.html << phun

17:53:55 assbot: ClubOrlov: Ebola and the Five Stages of Collapse

17:54:55 mircea_popescu: the problem with drinking the coolaid and starting to perceive yourself as "of a field" is that you end up with this obligatory slag.

17:55:03 mircea_popescu: "o, x is in the news , i gotta write about it then1"

17:55:15 mircea_popescu: soon enough all the forced writing kills your spark and then you're dead.

17:56:47 thestringpuller: ;;calc 2000000 / 11

17:56:48 gribble: 181818.181818

17:56:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00073931 = 18.4828 BTC [-] {4}

17:57:43 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: yup, no spark, no life.

17:58:09 pete_dushenski: and with that, ima check y'all later!

17:58:32 mircea_popescu: it's one thing doing news pieces because that's the news. but people writing blogs aren't doing newspieces, they're doing editorial, and the news burnout is a century old, well known and documented mode of failure for editors.

17:59:19 bounce: feeding random bits to that vaikan thingy makes me lose 2:1. seems that giving the thing a pass option gives it an unfair advantage.

17:59:24 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

17:59:25 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.03, Best ask: 357.19, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 356.03, 24 hour volume: 31630.34152670, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 380.94, 24 hour vwap: 364.911597788

18:00:30 *: asciilifeform never met an apocalyptic hypothetical megadeath that herr orlov doesn't love.

18:03:58 thickasthieves: https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/520555627715002368

18:03:59 assbot: Important step towards separating our bitcoin biz from /SecondMarket. The name. Introducing...Digital Currency Group http://t.co/s4Hld235bP

18:04:18 thickasthieves: "Invest. Build. Grow."

18:04:36 thickasthieves: Digital Currency Group

18:05:09 mike_c: the name is hardly enough barry. where's the logo?

18:07:03 bounce: anthropomorphic sugarcubes! with chainsaws!

18:07:12 bounce: oh wait, that's for something else. n'mind.

18:10:17 thickasthieves: http://www.trademarkia.com/digital-currency-group-86316071.html he went with mpex style logo

18:10:18 assbot: DIGITAL CURRENCY GROUP - Reviews & Brand Information - SECONDMARKET HOLDINGS, INC. New York, NY - Serial Number: 86316071

18:12:39 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:16:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (put a bullet through a long-overdue zombie) << zombie being what, people running gentoo through an emulator on windows ?

18:16:42 mircea_popescu: !up princessnell

18:16:47 mircea_popescu: heh wrong one

18:16:50 mircea_popescu: !up princessnell_

18:17:05 princessnell_: ty

18:17:16 princessnell_: i have a transcript of the andreas testimony

18:17:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << deets? << someone put a random deed up there, i linked it above the comment.

18:17:39 mircea_popescu: princessnell_ the one he published or the one he acutally gave ?

18:18:00 princessnell_: the whole thing: his opening statements and Q&A

18:18:26 mircea_popescu: cool. summarize, comment and submit.

18:18:45 mircea_popescu: add the full minutes as an add-on file to be linked from your article for the perennially curious

18:18:53 mike_c: i linked it above the comment. << that link 404'd for me.

18:20:14 mircea_popescu: mike_c well i guess it got deleted meanwhile. it just said "owned like a pony" or something

18:21:00 mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world <<< this is actually one of the largest, most interesting questions in bitcoin finance.

18:21:18 mircea_popescu: it doesn't have a good answer. on one hand, fiat currency can never meet the total asset value, for very well understood reasons.

18:21:49 mircea_popescu: superficially, if one thinks btc is a drop-in replacement for fiat (which it isn't, just like car isn't exactly a drop in replacement for tricycle) one'd expect the same to hold

18:22:10 mircea_popescu: however, because bitcoin will be hoarded in general and transacted rarely, it is quite possible for there to appear a new macroeconomics equation :

18:22:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60598 @ 0.00073906 = 44.7856 BTC [-] {2}

18:22:24 mircea_popescu: (hoarded btc) + traded btc = traded property + (hoarded property)

18:22:41 mircea_popescu: this is perhaps going to be the one thing economists of the future will be trying to keep in balance.

18:23:38 BingoBoingo: http://deadspin.com/mma-fighter-live-tweets-police-standoff-while-holed-up-1644489745

18:23:38 assbot: MMA Fighter Live-Tweets Police Standoff While Holed Up In House

18:24:57 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell wywialm there's one for you : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#867881

18:24:58 assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 18:21:00; mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world <<< this is actually one of the largest, most interesting questions in bitcoin finance.

18:24:58 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:26:10 bounce: ``Patrick Murck of the Bitcoin Foundation stated that "the people that do this stuff should burn in hell" and they are working to stop Bitcoin from being used for illicit activity.'' -- clowns be clownin'

18:26:36 mircea_popescu: lol what's he going to say.

18:26:59 mircea_popescu: "fuck you and get used to making the laws you can enforce as opposed to making the laws your delusions require" ?

18:27:02 mircea_popescu: not his line.

18:27:18 bounce: "not condone" yadda yadda would've been plenty

18:27:47 mircea_popescu: amusingly, bitcoin is working fro mstopping murck &co's illicit activities.

18:28:05 mircea_popescu: not particularly curious as to how that confrontation's gonna end out. seen too many tards try to spit up.

18:29:20 bounce: oh it's not really a surprise, but his is supposedly a PR club, not a policing club. not smart to get mired in that swamp.

18:29:48 mircea_popescu: since when did the us agents do the smart thing ?

18:30:03 mircea_popescu: they've already won the war on drugs, the war on poverty and the war on terrorism.

18:30:07 mircea_popescu: fourth's a charm.

18:30:19 bounce: oh yes ticker tape parades any day now

18:30:43 mircea_popescu: o which reminds me, did the doom zerohedge announced as a given manifest in the fx markets yet ?

18:31:26 mircea_popescu: that site's so funny, it's been declaring the world ends tomorrow so convincingly and for so long by now its only audience are people who actually factually believe the world ends tomorrow, each and every day. so there's this palpable atmosphere of

18:31:33 mircea_popescu: "nigga please, the world ? it's so ended already!"

18:34:20 mats_cd03: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17490282/why-is-this-commit-that-sets-the-rsa-public-exponent-to-1-problematic

18:34:21 assbot: security - Why is this commit that sets the RSA public exponent to 1 problematic? - Stack Overflow

18:35:06 mats_cd03: interesting to me, since i know about zero things re: rsa.

18:39:46 bounce: it's been ages but an exponent of one isn't a great idea, no. they shipped with that? oops. (could see it as another reason why you don't implement crypto yourself; you use a well-vetted library, as in written by cryptographers and then read by other cryptographers)

18:40:11 mircea_popescu: bounce except this would meet the definition of "well vetted" as commonly deployed.

18:40:52 mircea_popescu: you are in fact better off using homebrew than "well vetted", inasmuch as the western world is in denial about exactly what "well vetted" means as well as what "working towards stopping use for illicit activity" means

18:41:24 thestringpuller: remember that point you brought up about someone reading a newspaper article about a field they are well versed in. That person says, "Wow holes everywhere" etc. Then he moves to article from field he is less familiar with and just agrees with it?

18:41:31 thestringpuller: I think this was you mircea_popescu no?

18:41:32 mircea_popescu: so no, i'd trust anything nist/ieee/etc certified a lot less than i'd trust random shit.

18:41:49 mats_cd03: its all relative, i suppose.

18:41:55 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller possibly i brought it up here, but otherwise it's old scool.

18:42:10 thestringpuller: so if this is the case how is the n00b to even decide?

18:42:22 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 you know how if you install wordpress you're supposed to change the pre-generated salt to something ?

18:42:28 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/second-market-spins-off-digital-currency-group/

18:42:36 mircea_popescu: in cryptography, every constant's a salt. you're well advised to change ALL constants

18:42:37 mats_cd03: i don't know anything about the web

18:42:45 mircea_popescu: if the code stops working you shouldn't have been using it in the first place

18:42:53 mircea_popescu: mp best practices of crypto, volume I (r)

18:44:04 mats_cd03: i think i might see schneier again sometime in the near future

18:44:09 mats_cd03: have any questions you want answered?

18:44:24 mircea_popescu: what/how much they paid him, but he won't answer that one.

18:44:27 mats_cd03: besides, you know, 'whats your handler's name'

18:44:31 mats_cd03: oh, you beat me to it.

18:44:36 rithm: what's the meaning of life other than 42?

18:44:55 mircea_popescu: his handler's name is not as hard to infer.

18:45:09 mircea_popescu: there's not that many handlers, they drive cars, they have wives, it's a solved problem.

18:45:12 thestringpuller: in the future we will have nanomachines that prevent us from physically disclosing our handler. that will be a scary time.

18:47:28 bounce: uhm. looks like I forgot to take notes last time I had beef with some of what he was saying and forgot to keep up in the meantime. oh well.

18:47:51 chetty: <thestringpuller> in the future we will have nanomachines that prevent us from physically disclosing our handler. that will be a scary time.//pls tell me at least a day ahead of this

18:48:07 mircea_popescu: bounce this is why keeping a blog is so important

18:48:14 mircea_popescu: i'd lose 90% of my shit if i didn't write it down

18:48:33 bounce: oh I have my notes, just didn't jot that one down

18:52:15 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: like that time the eulora gameplay post was almsot lost forever?

18:52:20 thestringpuller: ;)

18:52:57 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.

18:56:28 mats_cd03: https://soundcloud.com/matoma-official/eminem-business-matoma-remix

18:56:28 assbot: SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds

19:04:43 mats_cd03: from an old issue, titled 'once upon a free()' http://phrack.org/issues/57/9.html

19:04:44 assbot: .:: Phrack Magazine ::.

19:18:19 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski You know there's another guide. Paid for rather than wrote this one. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/05/02/building-bitcoin-0-7-2-on-openbsd/

19:18:19 assbot: Building Bitcoin 0.7.2 on OpenBSD | Bingo Blog

19:18:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:20:36 BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/10/poor-punctuation-leads-to-windows-shell-vulnerability/

19:20:37 assbot: Poor punctuation leads to Windows shell vulnerability | Ars Technica

19:29:10 bounce: those wily belgians trying to make a name for themselves in time-honoured fashion: "sound scary? read on!"

19:32:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.0007402 = 9.2525 BTC [+]

19:33:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17064 @ 0.00074021 = 12.6309 BTC [+]

19:34:45 rithm: oh yeah i read about ^ earlier

19:47:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.0007402 = 12.5094 BTC [-]

19:51:42 BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/10/hospitalist-2/

19:51:43 assbot: Hospitalist Abusing Copy and Paste...In Paper Charts - Medical Satire - GomerBlog

19:53:30 BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/10/pet-therapy/ << ?Adults are bigger and furrier than kids, so it was simple,? explained Westchester Medical Center CEO James Piccadilly. ?Bears are bigger and furrier than dogs.?

19:53:31 assbot: Hospital Pilots Pet Therapy with Black Bears, Grizzlies - Medical Satire - GomerBlog

19:58:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.0007402 = 4.9964 BTC [-]

19:59:27 devthedev: Digital Currency Group, interesting.

20:00:25 mike_c: it's like secondmarket, but different.

20:00:48 mats_cd03: https://casetext.com/case/kennar-v-kelly-2 << heh. sued the IRS for RICO violations

20:01:28 mats_cd03: quite clever IMO, but no dice. sovereign immunity.

20:32:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30820 @ 0.00074209 = 22.8712 BTC [+] {2}

20:35:36 The20YearIRCloud: Well, we closed on property #10 today

20:36:21 The20YearIRCloud: Once we're at 100% occupancy we'll be almost right at $10k/mo in revenues

20:36:47 mike_c: decent profit margins?

20:37:05 kakobrekla: great dividend roi

20:37:13 kakobrekla: !t h rent

20:37:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00458100 / 0.00472061 / 0.00489499 (9 shares, 0.04248546 BTC), 7D: 0.00400000 / 0.00424006 / 0.00529752 (1978 shares, 8.38684071 BTC), 30D: 0.00383331 / 0.00644294 / 0.00750000 (13985 shares, 90.10447998 BTC)

20:37:51 kakobrekla: seems to be stuck to 0.45 no matter what btc or you do or is it just me

20:38:07 kakobrekla: 0.0045 even

20:38:34 The20YearIRCloud: 70% mike_c

20:39:00 The20YearIRCloud: Although that's gonna go down as we lever, but as of property #10, our costs are a little under 30% of revenues

20:39:08 kakobrekla: (im just thinking re your idea of being a hedge)

20:39:11 mike_c: kakobrekla: yeah for last 5 months.

20:39:11 The20YearIRCloud: kakobrekla: you're right, and i've been buying about as much as I can

20:39:52 The20YearIRCloud: The property I just got is a smoking deal. $30k purchase, about $2k in rehab if that, will bring in $1050/mo rented with about $300/mo in costs (Taxes, insurance, repairs)

20:40:05 kakobrekla: id call fire department on smoking property

20:40:09 kakobrekla: quick

20:41:26 The20YearIRCloud: lol

20:48:56 cazalla: ;;later tell princessnell just missed you, was sleeping

20:48:56 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:50:53 devthedev: Good evening everyone

20:51:25 cazalla: morning

20:52:12 devthedev: Hey cazalla

21:01:36 *: danielpbarron used BingoBoingo's instructions to compile bitcoind 0.7.2 on OpenBSD 5.5

21:02:19 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Well the ones I asked some Indian kid to do for money and then diginork beat him to the prize when he no-show'd

21:05:07 danielpbarron: i have instructions on compiling ssss-0.5 on OpenBSD 5.5 if anyone is interested

21:08:10 bounce: submit it as a port?

21:09:10 danielpbarron: ;;rated gilgameshugga

21:09:11 gribble: You rated user gilgameshugga on Sat Jul 19 13:35:03 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: figured out how to compile ssss-0.5 on openBSD5.5 for a 0.1 BTC bounty http://danielpbarron.com/ssss/openBSD5.5.asc.txt.

21:12:09 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell princessnell cazalla !

21:12:09 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:12:31 cazalla: she sent an email so it's all good

21:12:46 mircea_popescu: a cool

21:15:05 mircea_popescu: <mats_cd03> quite clever IMO, but no dice. sovereign immunity. << exactly.

21:17:04 mircea_popescu: now if only someone made a site that wasn';t a retarded ball of javascript

21:17:12 mircea_popescu: what is with these people, seriously.

21:17:57 kakobrekla: who?

21:18:27 mircea_popescu: google has this "document" format that's basically just a bunch of spurious javascript

21:18:44 mircea_popescu: then everyone copied it. casetext.com in this exampole

21:19:10 mircea_popescu: but there's a bunch of them. the retarded crowd that does videos instead of articles tends to send links to them instead of plain text.

21:21:04 bounce: "REST" is all the rage these days, and is obviously a fine and good excuse to push off all the processing into the client (and thereby reinventing just about everything, badly), instead of, oh, having the server process all that or just serving up the content right away.

21:21:29 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/liberty-reserve-founder-arthur-budovsk-extradited/

21:22:09 mircea_popescu: fuck them with a used toilet brush

21:23:18 mircea_popescu: and fuck whoever came up with the soap-rest false dichotomy, too.

21:23:28 bounce: ah, of course it's extra-doubly-criminal if you are a /former/ american doing all that outside of the US

21:24:48 mircea_popescu: huh ?

21:25:25 bounce: ``The founder of Liberty Reserve, a virtual currency used by cybercriminals around the world to launder proceeds of their illegal activity, was extradited from Spain and arrived in the United States this afternoon.'' -- so, uhm, why aren't they even investigating the current owners and propagators of that much more widely currency used by criminals, "cyber" and otherwise, world-wide?

21:25:54 mircea_popescu: because this guy passed his things off as dollars

21:26:09 mircea_popescu: something anyone with any sense could have told him will never float unless he also has an army.

21:26:21 bounce: did he? oh dear.

21:26:27 mircea_popescu: yeah, he did

21:26:50 mircea_popescu: and it was pretty derpy/insane to boot. i mean literally, going by shops, telling random people that hey, this is as much a dollar as that.

21:27:46 BingoBoingo: As far as I understand it Liberty Reserve was basically just Dollar Hawala, except derpier

21:28:21 mircea_popescu: well no, it was Bollar, like Bucci

21:28:32 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/andreas-antonopolous-testifies-before-canadian-senate-committee/

21:29:19 mircea_popescu: cazalla dude this chick can write. let it not be said all qntra articles are short ever again lol

21:29:47 cazalla: i know eh

21:29:51 bounce: though even if he'd shouted high and low it was something else entirely that just happened to carry the exact same unit value as a us dollar they'd still hang him on the nearest tree of accusations. they're like that. any old excuse will do.

21:29:53 mircea_popescu: "SENATOR GERSTEIN (1:50:40) Mr. Antonopolous, your reputation preceded you prior to your arrival. You may recall that in my introductory remarks, I did not introduce you as a Bitcoin guru, but as THE Bitcoin guru. I think that I could speak on behalf of all of the members of the committee in saying that you have more than lived up to that reputation. We greatly appreciate your presentation today. Thank you very much, t

21:29:53 mircea_popescu: his meeting is concluded."

21:29:57 mircea_popescu: this should be in the record.

21:30:14 mircea_popescu: gerstein addressing known shill, scammer and general clueless derp : "you're just like us! we love you here!"

21:30:27 bounce: birds of a feather

21:30:34 mircea_popescu: bounce looky, counterfactuals aren't factuals.

21:30:59 mircea_popescu: or in romanian, "daca si cu parca se plimbau cu-o barca. daca daca nu era, parca parca se-neca".

21:31:23 mircea_popescu: if and seems like were rowing in a boat. if if weren't there, seems like seems like'd have drowned.

21:32:36 cazalla: some quantcast stats are up https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net

21:32:36 assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast

21:34:04 mircea_popescu: not bad.

21:34:16 BingoBoingo: Oh Quantcast and WP stats are pretty similar in the numbers

21:35:39 mircea_popescu: 940,806 US rank < straight in the top 1m hehe

21:36:23 mircea_popescu: ftr, coindesk is estimated around 20k ish daily.

21:36:29 mircea_popescu: ie, you're already 2-3%

21:38:07 BingoBoingo: https://www.quantcast.com/top-sites << Who could #7 be?

21:38:08 assbot: Quantcast - Top Ranking International Websites

21:51:36 BingoBoingo: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/

21:51:36 assbot: Judge Rejects Defense That FBI Illegally Hacked Silk RoadOn a Technicality | WIRED

21:51:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00073978 = 39.0234 BTC [-] {3}

21:55:56 thickasthieves: "Ulbricht hadn’t sufficiently demonstrated that the server belonged to him, and thus can’t claim that his privacy rights were violated by its search. "

21:56:06 thickasthieves: he hasnt admitted guilt, so he cant be innocent

21:56:09 thickasthieves: fuck me...

21:56:12 midnightmagic: 14:30 <+mircea_popescu> gerstein addressing known shill, scammer and general clueless derp : "you're just like us! we love you here!" << thank you

22:00:15 kanzure: did he claim that his property rights were violated, or that the owner's property rights were violated?

22:01:48 thickasthieves: he'd need to admit the server was his first

22:02:42 thickasthieves: it's a fucking joke

22:03:59 midnightmagic: it's an absurdity

22:04:51 midnightmagic: must the neighbour give testimoney that the police were trespassing to invalidate an apprehension? trespass is presumed, not proven.

22:04:58 BingoBoingo: The judge alledges he could have claimed ownership in a way that wouldn't be a confession, but which would have effectively made his taking the stand either have to end in a confession or perjury

22:05:35 thickasthieves: it's absurd

22:05:39 thickasthieves: i'm mad

22:06:03 midnightmagic: the form of an investigation is almost the entirety of whether justice is served

22:19:48 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the technicality known as "technically, i gotta eat, and these people are paying for it."

22:19:58 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3B3GWQV.txt )

22:19:58 BingoBoingo: !b 1

22:20:22 mircea_popescu: !up maximian

22:21:38 mats_cd03: ;;nethash

22:21:39 gribble: 261049969.639

22:21:55 []bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 21(Y):79(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.28503498 BTC. Current weight: 59,896.

22:24:25 BingoBoingo: mega lolz https://twitter.com/CoinFireBlog/status/520699230156226560

22:24:26 assbot: ./koinify announced the addition of ./VinnyLingham to the advisory board and ./ofnumbers as a mentor: http://t.co/K4vpqjgrHX

22:25:35 mircea_popescu: ?The government posits two standards of behavior: one for private citizens, who must adhere to a strict standard of conduct construed by the government,? read a final filing Tuesday. ?The other for the government, which, with its elastic ability to effect electronic intrusion, can deliberately, cavalierly, and unrepentantly transgress those same standards.?

22:25:43 mircea_popescu: that part at least is worth taking away.

22:26:00 mircea_popescu: the very definition of a rogue state is "one which construes itself more powerful than the private citizen"

22:31:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you going to make that court document scan a text btw ?

22:31:29 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah

22:31:57 BingoBoingo: 38 pages so I'll txt it a bit different. .txt file to download

22:32:00 mircea_popescu: textifying all the pdfs/scans idiots dump online, as well as textifying audio/video are very legitimates avenues for qntra to add value

22:32:12 mircea_popescu: automate as much of it as possible and then automate the remainder. twice.

22:32:23 mircea_popescu: got any good ocr and sound to text software atm ?

22:32:54 mircea_popescu: and prolly best to make it a page rather than a txt file. people want what they want when they click.

22:33:09 mircea_popescu: not after a dld and a notepad or w/e they use.

22:33:32 mircea_popescu: besides, html.

22:34:45 mircea_popescu: !up Takeshi

22:34:47 mircea_popescu: okay.

22:35:15 mircea_popescu: what is wcn anyway ?

22:35:41 penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/judge-forrest-rejects-illegal-search-defense-in-ulbricht-case/

22:38:27 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> and prolly best to make it a page rather than a txt file. people want what they want when they click. << Updated this one now to have both

22:38:37 mircea_popescu: worx

22:38:46 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> got any good ocr and sound to text software atm ? << Dunno of any yet

22:38:51 mircea_popescu: but im serious about the ocr and the text to speech. it can do the bulk of the work.

22:39:00 mircea_popescu: gives you a significant advantage.

22:39:09 mircea_popescu: iirc asciilifeform mentioned some pdf textualizer in the logs ?

22:39:47 BingoBoingo: Oh, I found a pdf textualizer, but I dunno if it handles pdfs that are just photographs of text yet

22:40:21 mircea_popescu: you seriously should spend a week or w/e it takes trying out ocrs and voice recognition tools and whatnot, because going forward this will remain an issue

22:40:48 BingoBoingo: It's going on the agenda.

22:40:49 mircea_popescu: being able to take a turd and turn it into readable content within an hour or a day, and being able to so process gigabytes of crud a month is, by itself, more barrier to entry than all the collective "press" has

22:40:56 mircea_popescu: and i don't mean coindeks. i mean wired

22:41:48 mircea_popescu: and if you get it to where you have to fix a letter per ten words you're way way ahead of someone who has to press pause every five seconds

22:42:30 mircea_popescu: not that anyone actually even exists in the cloud of vaporized shit comprising the kids-of-www that even has the drive or the intellectual werewithal to take down an hour of speech or an acre of blackboard anyway.

22:42:47 mircea_popescu: you'd think everyone's got a college degree means they are god damned good at exactly that. but...

22:50:23 BingoBoingo: Yeah, so far most of the deturdified text has been low hanging fruit, but automating the hard stuff is going to be nice sauce

22:52:37 mircea_popescu: definitely.

22:53:05 mircea_popescu: and i mean, i can tell anjie didn't sleep to do that one, which is exactly what she should have done, but once.

22:53:09 cazalla: have not finished reading logs but the thing i do not like about the txt version is that it's difficult to read unless it's formatted correctly

22:53:11 mircea_popescu: you can't have people do this by hand forever.

22:53:24 cazalla: i don't see the value in just copying to a post without making it readable

22:53:35 mircea_popescu: cazalla the point being that it's easier to format/spellcheck a predeturdified turd than to write from scratch

22:54:56 cazalla: better to link to a txt than include it in post than imo

22:54:59 bounce: formatting html or actual text? latter case, "fmt" or "par" (not par2, entirely different beast) might help

22:55:33 mircea_popescu: fmt is a good idea yeah

22:55:37 mircea_popescu: cazalla why ?

22:57:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00073834 = 4.2085 BTC [-]

22:58:18 Takeshi: https://www.youtube.com/user/WorldCryptoNetwork WCN is a youtube channel .

22:58:18 assbot: World Crypto Network - YouTube

22:58:38 mircea_popescu: aha cool.

22:58:47 mircea_popescu: ok, so go ahead.

23:02:01 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu your dead man is live on that chan

23:02:08 kakobrekla: hehe

23:02:26 mircea_popescu: wait, wut ?

23:03:26 kakobrekla: AA

23:03:36 kakobrekla: currently live on WCN

23:03:40 mircea_popescu: lol cool

23:03:42 BingoBoingo: OMG Zombies!

23:04:12 mthreat: mircea_popescu: $200 and $500 peso notes coming? http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=762332

23:04:15 assbot: Esbozos de billetes de $ 200 y $ 500 - Ambito.com

23:04:25 mthreat: it's about time, I guess. $100 pesos is worth 7 dollars

23:04:29 mircea_popescu: they're behind the times, should be 1k 2k and 5k

23:04:37 mircea_popescu: more like 6.

23:04:47 mthreat: i'm a week behind then ;)

23:05:15 mircea_popescu: ;;rated cazalla

23:05:15 gribble: You rated user cazalla on Wed Apr 16 22:29:03 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..

23:05:32 mircea_popescu: ;;rate cazalla 2 qntra.net chief editor.

23:05:33 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user cazalla has changed from 1 to 2.

23:07:46 mthreat: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 Lunch & drinks in Buenos Aires

23:07:47 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

23:07:51 mthreat: bah

23:07:57 mircea_popescu: ;;rated mthreat

23:07:57 gribble: You rated user mthreat on Sat Jun 21 05:42:17 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Awesome search ; coffee.

23:08:47 mthreat: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 Lunch & drinks in Buenos Aires

23:08:48 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.

23:08:55 mthreat: finally I rated someone

23:09:07 mircea_popescu: lol wd.

23:09:22 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^

23:09:36 kakobrekla: +2 boohoo

23:10:44 mircea_popescu: what are you at yet anyway, 90something ?

23:10:57 kakobrekla: dunno

23:15:02 BingoBoingo: ;;getratings kakobrekla

23:15:02 gribble: Error: "getratings" is not a valid command.

23:17:43 bounce: it's the obvious and easily typed "ratingsystem getrating"

23:17:57 *: bounce would demonstrate but gribble has been forgetful again

23:20:16 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust nanotube mtgox

23:20:17 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nanotube to user mtgox: Level 1: 6, Level 2: 38 via 9 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nanotube&dest=mtgox | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mtgox | Rated since: Mon Nov 8 13:35:39 2010

23:23:19 BingoBoingo: ;;ratingsystem getrating kakobrekla

23:23:19 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. User kakobrekla, rated since Fri May 13 18:50:53 2011. Cumulative rating 148, from 77 total ratings. Received ratings: 77 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 78 positive, 6 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=kakobrekla

23:24:05 BingoBoingo: Oic

23:24:08 thestringpuller: nice find

23:24:18 kakobrekla: ;;getrating kakobrekla

23:24:19 gribble: Use the gettrust command instead. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Relying_on_the_rating

23:24:25 kakobrekla: heh

23:28:53 mike_c: <+mircea_popescu> you can't have people do this by hand forever. << that might be the easiest solution actually. set up some amazon mechanical turk automation.

23:29:03 thestringpuller: !ticker h am1

23:29:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.13500000 / 0.13812501 / 0.14000001 (8 shares, 1.10500004 BTC), 7D: 0.10010000 / 0.13283625 / 0.19210002 (1410 shares, 187.29910975 BTC), 30D: 0.10000001 / 0.15529865 / 0.26900000 (5423 shares, 842.18456297 BTC)

23:29:33 mircea_popescu: mike_c i wouldn't trust random fiverr derp not to mess up the words

23:29:54 mircea_popescu: and seeing how the very purpose of this stuff is for people to be able to do deep searches for impredictable later interests, it'd be less than useful.

23:30:00 mike_c: but you've got steady work, can find reliable people

23:30:44 mircea_popescu: people are not for steady work. machines are for steady work.

23:30:48 mircea_popescu: people are for unsteady work.

23:31:09 mike_c: yes, but machines do a crappy job of voice/pdf -> text. maybe the turks are the ones who clean it up.

23:31:26 mircea_popescu: (it won't scale. if one day i want to do 1tb i can just throw more chickens at it, provided it runs on chickens)

23:31:37 mircea_popescu: do they still ?

23:31:43 mircea_popescu: i was hoping 20 years later it's fixed mostly.

23:32:00 mircea_popescu: how does ziri work or w/e was apple calling its paperclip ?

23:32:15 mike_c: see the textification qntra did of the defense filing. all chopped up and stuff.

23:32:52 mike_c: siri doesn't have to produce a readable text though, just understand the gist.

23:33:28 mike_c: depends how important quality is i guess. but a rough text is painful to read to me.

23:34:54 mircea_popescu: quality is actulaly pretty important yeah,.

23:48:04 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCfzph5dHs0 << check out the bitcoin evanghelist.

23:48:05 assbot: Bitcoin Poem #1 - Bitcoin is not - YouTube

23:54:23 ben_vulpes: http://emojilisp.com/

23:54:23 assbot: Emojilisp!

23:54:52 ben_vulpes: the only language adequate to replace c++ for btc dev