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Transcript for 10-12-2016, 778 lines:

00:01:22 punkman: starting in Jan 2017

00:15:05 kakobrekla: hide yo kids, hide yo wife

01:06:04 kakobrekla: !up deadweasel

01:06:10 kakobrekla: sup

01:06:14 deadweasel: Many thanks!

01:06:21 kakobrekla: sure

01:06:27 kakobrekla: !gettrust deadweasel

01:06:28 assbot: Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user deadweasel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=kakobrekla&to=deadweasel | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/deadweasel/

01:06:43 deadweasel: Fucking wot

01:06:50 deadweasel: It's somewhere.

01:07:08 deadweasel: MP used to give me bitcoins for gift access to forums he was banned from

01:07:12 deadweasel: Is he living?

01:07:31 deadweasel: Are you all,rich quite yet? Mi hope so.

01:08:07 deadweasel: But, I won't dally. I'm curious if anyone here is as paranoid about current events and weatHer as I may

01:08:13 deadweasel: As I am*

01:08:35 kakobrekla: which current events?

01:08:38 asciilifeform: deadweasel: he lives in #fraudsters now

01:08:47 deadweasel: For all your fuckery and schemes, you're honest folk, taught me a bit. I'm back for opinions.

01:08:52 kakobrekla: ah yeah, if you are looking for delusionists, they move to another chan

01:09:00 deadweasel: Which one ;)

01:09:10 deadweasel: This is like a sanity check for me..

01:09:18 deadweasel: Is weather weird right now?

01:09:22 deadweasel: The sun?

01:09:34 kakobrekla: O_o

01:09:35 deadweasel: Or am I nukkin futs?

01:09:42 jurov: drunk?

01:09:58 kakobrekla: its night time here now so sun seems ok from this end

01:10:01 deadweasel: I can't drink anymore. Weed tho. Good weed

01:10:36 deadweasel: Probably just an effect of that.

01:10:50 deadweasel: Did you notice giant US snow gyre?

01:11:21 kakobrekla: yeah, i think you would be a better fit in the delusionist chan

01:11:22 deadweasel: Also two asthma storms?

01:11:49 deadweasel: Kuwait, Australia.

01:12:04 deadweasel: Never seen this shit in my life.

01:12:24 kakobrekla: i have nfi what you are on about

01:12:33 deadweasel: I'm definite with you on the me probably being nuts thing.

01:12:56 deadweasel: Fucking two secs I'll link

01:12:56 kakobrekla: aha well thats the first step towards getting better

01:13:19 deadweasel: http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/33432/20161205/another-bizarre-asthma-rain-kills-5-people-kuwait.htm

01:13:22 assbot: Another Bizarre ‘Asthma Rain’ Kills 5 People in Kuwait : News : Nature World News ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvI3GM )

01:13:40 deadweasel: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/world/australia/melbourne-australia-thunderstorm-asthma-attacks.html?_r=0

01:13:41 assbot: Log In - New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvJ69F )

01:13:47 deadweasel: Fucking times

01:14:17 deadweasel: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/11/28/australian-asthma-storm-claims-sixth-victim.html

01:14:18 assbot: Australian asthma storm claims sixth victim | Fox News ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvBrbh )

01:14:26 deadweasel: Asthma storm

01:14:32 deadweasel: Any doctors here?

01:14:33 deadweasel: No

01:14:38 deadweasel: K

01:16:16 deadweasel: Saudis Arabia snows. feet of hail in South Africa.

01:16:24 jurov: need to squirt something up your ..er.. nose?

01:16:40 deadweasel: Coffee enema might do me

01:17:57 punkman: is that like the new chemtrails

01:18:10 punkman: "asthma storm"

01:18:29 kakobrekla: hehe, maybe chemtrails stopped working

01:18:45 punkman: or it's the first time they worked

01:19:55 jurov: if so, they are used at weird places

01:22:50 punkman: I wouldn't worry about the weather in australia unless I was there

01:22:59 deadweasel: You guys love to bet. Mathis guy has been predicting earthquakes using solar data, plate tectonics, and basic physics. Predicted largest of the year, and largest in the US in the last 3 days. People

01:23:11 deadweasel: We're not warned

01:23:17 jurov: you mean trump election?

01:23:19 deadweasel: https://youtu.be/uwCIPRvmgj8

01:23:20 assbot: 12/08/2016 -- Global Unrest = New warning areas in Midwest USA, Japan, Asia, and Europe - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvN1Di )

01:23:30 kakobrekla: lol jurov

01:23:48 deadweasel: You could bet on his predictions. And win.

01:23:56 deadweasel: Just a random idea

01:24:09 deadweasel: Bit bet

01:24:11 deadweasel: Lol

01:24:54 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/185DBF5D4298D675A8FC76103F0C8BCD4245E87E1E1FB0238D2D2D24378B73B9 ; Phuctored: 23988884501415406874831316374827654511901393952086885591613175168028087121110684814689443919193954781527416772790821667894579151632230189938550067828903773138025092083389048955484693372921807711315875123797074745916489914953751708003650474329266328268408452762007842574264781785222095695476077982848565762355081368823789718220355741715

01:24:56 deadweasel: Anyhow, I Hope I'm a toon. I'm open to that. Sincerely.

01:25:26 jurov: and what will have happened on the 12th? not in mood to to watch some vid

01:25:44 kakobrekla: endoftheworld.swf

01:25:45 deadweasel: The large earth facing sunspot returns to face us.

01:25:53 kakobrekla: see, i wasnt far off

01:26:22 jurov: and tmsr will prevail at last.

01:26:47 kakobrekla: l0l

01:27:00 deadweasel: Look, take one war

01:27:05 deadweasel: Waarning spot

01:27:17 deadweasel: And check in three days.

01:27:35 deadweasel: He has predicted earthquakes very well for some time now.

01:28:07 kakobrekla: i can do it too, there will be at least one in japan today

01:29:23 deadweasel: Magnitudes to within .5

01:29:40 deadweasel: But if you can why doesn't an agency do,it?

01:29:47 jurov: deadweasel: there was this solar protuberance in 18xx that zapped telegraph lines, but afaik no quakes

01:30:20 deadweasel: Lots of records across the world for seismographs?

01:30:27 deadweasel: I don't know!

01:30:30 deadweasel: I don't

01:30:49 jurov: you should not combine weed with doomsday vids

01:31:20 deadweasel: This is, yes, most correct. Shit.

01:31:39 deadweasel: Anyhow. I'll stop. Thank you.

01:34:40 punkman: deadweasel: you'd probably like this guy http://halfpasthuman.com/

01:34:41 assbot: HalfPastHuman.com ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvJZPF )

01:36:42 jurov: "This is the first real American Civil War. There are two parts of USAPop who are fighting it out in the midst of the great mass of the unaware, sleeping population. Both warring groups are small, and are fighting through, with, and over the larger mass of the population."

01:36:49 jurov: reads more like alf material

01:39:42 punkman: his prediction stuff is where the timecubing happens http://halfpasthuman.com/ALTA)_how.html

01:39:43 assbot: HalfPastHuman.com ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvF1lJ )

01:40:22 kakobrekla: konspirasists are hard to handle. when one in a million turns out to be true go to "SEEEEEE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!11". this reaffirms their nonsense idiocies.

01:49:05 punkman: http://cdn.cretalive.gr/_750xAUTO_fit_center-center_86/271963.jpg

01:49:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvHnBj )

01:49:46 punkman: http://cdn.cretalive.gr/_750xAUTO_fit_center-center_86/272000.jpg artsy

01:49:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvEobY )

01:50:03 asciilifeform: punkman: still the sailor strike ?!

01:52:21 punkman: yeah but seems like they are losing

01:52:36 kakobrekla: their temper? :)

01:58:08 punkman: was driving near the port around noon, someone arsoned a sailboat

01:58:21 punkman: I'm guessing owned by someone in seamen union

03:51:18 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/473DC6186FD220FF04A5F88556AA616EDB94018B7B8CB8642A3B6974BDBC1900 ; Phuctored: 154669715771340976409507845243732614327053533914341453157163070006913013176946726300635227140014278611721560692085171918506365941611114930528265226333534832536702682378376867924134539840273941687216921752429150557554066031190204269329397846909039340181216001985056585792910347102768439272781206001053814820109 divides RSA Moduli belong

03:51:20 assbot: ipinfo:, No Hostname, Ejido Distrito Federal, Estado de Baja California, MX, 32.4914,-115.0369, AS8151 Uninet S.A. de C.V., 21830

04:08:35 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/185DBF5D4298D675A8FC76103F0C8BCD4245E87E1E1FB0238D2D2D24378B73B9 ; Phuctored: 152503753209091011579362852779352498439149059575234816863924110440479948613338375381060010945240361588442146916422362747282082813924358865998931200862155662801672994342251781471806715932148236306767050450740358733929087321122192331599502681928564117067447215344602286607380875919997056925588869651234535818219 divides RSA Moduli belong

04:08:37 assbot: ipinfo:, 70-100-42-43.br1.sho.az.frontiernet.net, Portland, Oregon, US, 45.4470,-122.7668, AS5650 Frontier Communications of America, Inc., 97223

04:09:46 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461515 <-- interesting, but seems really hard to get by the garbage-in-garbage-out thing

04:09:46 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 01:34:40; punkman: deadweasel: you'd probably like this guy http://halfpasthuman.com/

04:10:36 funkenstein_: er, I refer to the predictive linguistics and web spidering thing

04:12:58 funkenstein_: lol on that chip design, nice work asciilifeform!

04:13:20 funkenstein_: sharing

04:13:32 funkenstein_: i hadn't been on extreme derping dot com in a while

04:13:39 funkenstein_: check this one out http://fraudsters.com/2016/modernism-and-traditionalism/

04:13:40 assbot: Modernism ; and traditionalism on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/2hvZuHk )

04:13:57 funkenstein_: 10k words on the proposition that "how are you" and "how are you doing" represent fundamentally different philosophies

04:14:40 funkenstein_: that there could be a "being" without a "doing"... that we aren't exactly and completely defined by what we do... lolk

04:16:25 funkenstein_: there's a reason it's the *verb* to be

04:17:06 funkenstein_: well the thing provides a nice insight into delusionism i suppose - there is only the label that i provide!

04:19:15 funkenstein_: the moon is not a thing producing a gravity field and orbiting the earth, that would mean that anything producing a large gravity field and orbiting the earth would be a moon!

04:21:17 funkenstein_: lucas etter is not a great cuber because he studies and practices, and solves fast, it is because he's who he is!

04:21:24 funkenstein_: and then we have this gem

04:21:27 funkenstein_: I am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. Nobody's "good at x". The "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality. Either your brain works or doesn't. "

04:21:53 funkenstein_: uh, yeah

04:24:39 funkenstein_: for the record, mine doesn't.

04:24:44 funkenstein_: not that well thankfully

04:24:56 funkenstein_: :)

04:35:03 funkenstein_: in far more interesting news, a great interview with Florinda Donner http://www.nagualism.com/florinda-donner-interview-magical-blend.html

04:35:05 assbot: An Interview with Florinda Donner ... ( http://bit.ly/2hw6zHV )

08:12:26 punkman: and the seamen yield before the farmers arson more boats

08:13:39 punkman: massive backlog of trucks in Italian ports too

08:22:41 punkman: https://www.gobid.it/en/auctions/ italian bankruptcy auctions

08:22:42 assbot: Gobid.it | Auctions ... ( http://bit.ly/2h8ExVV )

08:27:53 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461550 << inclined to agree, either works or doesn't. still gotta study/practice/train of course.

08:27:53 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 04:21:27; funkenstein_: I am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. Nobody's "good at x". The "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality. Either your brain works or doesn't. "

08:32:36 punkman: but also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2016#1417288

08:32:36 assbot: Logged on 28-02-2016 08:46:40; punkman: http://www.brainsturbator.com/posts/409/the-human-brain-is-a-piece-of-shit

08:34:10 punkman: and also "Past Performance is Not Necessarily Indicative of Future Results"

08:35:51 punkman: there is no reason you couldn't train to be a plumber, baker or even pilot, tomorrow if the fancy strikes you

08:38:27 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461555 << which part is great

08:38:27 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 04:35:03; funkenstein_: in far more interesting news, a great interview with Florinda Donner http://www.nagualism.com/florinda-donner-interview-magical-blend.html

11:19:35 punkman: http://lyndonlarouche.org/newamericanfascism.htm

11:19:36 assbot: HTML version of Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism (author Dennis King) ... ( http://bit.ly/2hwNXaJ )

11:57:34 kakobrekla: l0l https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1948179-share-ransomware-get-free-decryption-key

11:57:36 assbot: Share Ransomware, Get Free Decryption Key? - Spiceworks ... ( http://bit.ly/2hwXX3G )

13:46:03 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/473DC6186FD220FF04A5F88556AA616EDB94018B7B8CB8642A3B6974BDBC1900 ; Phuctored: 159278140097764746025082282611269260077018641980311601268034348175881668150322087912102697035420041382603431942418120561111961005164907316427372010487998373268378757010970936185031780419140606845977375958826591737888871881671488893275025917000686652900371351972291933827445274905351534460024040929082942444533 divides RSA Moduli belong

13:46:05 assbot: ipinfo:, No Hostname, Ejido Distrito Federal, Estado de Baja California, MX, 32.4914,-115.0369, AS8151 Uninet S.A. de C.V., 21830

13:46:06 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04241AA1CB3A7D54599DF787D276651AD4A96531F3372360B21971E9279EBFC4 ; Phuctored: 27908602881156674449551173059324714062071302626129395918622373320448418722130708920755438654812758200889249199282132011542277956738588211852744104798423536785026026427647484751867512758359637517952952792108773082001573514333372962537460511344644303164412787570236719529473717975502211845801597043109579285089532245571780046420947746446

15:21:14 funkenstein_: wait, punkman agrees that "nobody's good at x" ?

15:21:32 funkenstein_: rodney mullin, not good at skateboarding?

15:21:38 funkenstein_: heifitz, not good at violin?

15:21:49 funkenstein_: euler, not really much of a mathematician?

15:21:59 funkenstein_: art tatum, not good at piano?

15:22:31 funkenstein_: adam ondra, not good at climbing?

15:22:42 funkenstein_: oh yeah 8c+ onsight, not really so impressive eh

15:24:20 funkenstein_: notice the word "blind" prominently placed in the statement :D

15:25:40 funkenstein_: the only translation I can come up with is "I've never tried to pursue any skill, therefore nobody has"

15:26:45 funkenstein_: as for Florinda, the power that comes from escaping cultural influence on our perception is well worth pursuing

15:28:43 funkenstein_: she speaks well about how this means mastering current perceptions and moving past them.. not dismissing them out of hand

15:29:42 funkenstein_: "shabono" stands on its own as a great read

15:31:51 funkenstein_: !up Atomicat_

15:35:02 funkenstein_: "Did you know you have more connections in your brain then there are stars in the Universe?" <-- he meant to say "galaxy"

15:39:00 funkenstein_: brainsturbator guy seems generally correct though :)

15:41:14 funkenstein_: back to the "doing" vs. "being" thread.. things which stick around are those that move from the present into the future

15:41:23 funkenstein_: they are "doing".

15:41:28 funkenstein_: otherwise they are a space-like trajectory

15:41:40 funkenstein_: this is loosely speaking a description of how matter is energy

15:42:23 kakobrekla: funkenstein_ is having fun i see :)

15:42:46 funkenstein_: hehe indeed how are you "doing" kakobrekla?

15:42:57 kakobrekla: im being fine funkenstein_ !

15:43:28 kakobrekla: having a hard time de-gluing from screens

15:43:28 funkenstein_: hehe, keep up the good work

15:43:52 funkenstein_: eh, i hear you there. we need to make conscious effort

15:44:02 kakobrekla: hehe

15:44:17 funkenstein_: my eyes have been bugging me lately

15:44:27 funkenstein_: too much screen time

15:44:59 kakobrekla: hm possibly

15:45:10 funkenstein_: i can barely image the freaking 汉字 on 百度地图 app

15:45:55 funkenstein_: get biking yo

15:46:01 assbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/04241AA1CB3A7D54599DF787D276651AD4A96531F3372360B21971E9279EBFC4 ; Phuctored: 164570903995876618317373087744340455088684276643614917998250571935170359255887350801663104767528328065057244074801704652489902271467668342402971452887226429461978453473183098450840006442599377774392822764026506453171061942753888164640706978899772321278438483046913938151613096870945650236801402432166940411129 divides RSA Moduli belong

15:46:03 assbot: ipinfo:, radium.openminds.be, Brussels, Brussels Capital, BE, 50.8333,4.3333, AS30961 BE, 1012

15:46:04 kakobrekla: altrough for some unknown reason i seem to be seeing better now than a couple of years ago

15:46:09 kakobrekla: but it could be just my imagination

15:46:17 funkenstein_: well if you figure out the secret do tell

15:47:01 kakobrekla: well, i dont see how going out more could hurt, where the focus point is much further than lcd

15:50:09 funkenstein_: i'll keep that in mind

15:50:38 funkenstein_: while i'm complaining, there's a tradition of bare fluorescent bulbs out here that I have trouble with

15:51:11 funkenstein_: my spoiled cultural conditioning perhaps

15:55:46 kakobrekla: i found that im least bothered by a combination of led+incandescent altrough led doesnt have much point if you run a signle inc

15:57:03 funkenstein_: hmm i'll try to set something like that up

15:57:27 funkenstein_: sleep might be my best bet at the moment. until next time -

15:57:36 kakobrekla: good luck

18:24:15 kakobrekla: https://scontent.flju1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15327325_10209643301172517_7277268123333810783_n.jpg?oh=bc2680f62b15cc6f25b7e8f1fcfeb890&oe=58F16493

18:24:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2hxXwWC )

18:24:31 kakobrekla: legit

18:51:28 punkman: funkenstein_: wait, punkman agrees that "nobody's good at x" ? << context is alf saying "isn't playing Eulora and cannot say, so far looks to me as if it mostly attracts folk who are good at playing eulora, rather than generalists spilling over into the kinds of projects in motion here"

18:56:08 punkman: and I agree that if Eulora makes people join WoT, the brains can be used for more than Eulora

18:56:57 punkman: now if any of the Eulora players will ever produce theorem that alf would enjoy reading, is another discussion

18:59:00 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461624 < eh, merely doing something does not mean you understood what you did

18:59:00 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 18:56:08; punkman: and I agree that if Eulora makes people join WoT, the brains can be used for more than Eulora

19:00:21 kakobrekla: besides, folk with usable brain usually have better things to do than playing some game to win a few satoshis

19:01:12 kakobrekla: the game was advertised on buttcointalk as 'use this instead of faucets'

19:01:16 punkman: it was a challenge even paying people to play it, documented in a couple other fraudsters posts

19:01:18 kakobrekla: now, who uses faucets ?

19:02:21 kakobrekla: poorfags -- not only in the financial sense

19:02:32 asciilifeform: context, in case anyone gave a shit, is that eulora accounts are free, but players have to register in #t wot;

19:03:03 asciilifeform: they walk in , and register, but on a few occasions made various stupid-folx noises and imho dropped the snr

19:03:16 kakobrekla: l0l

19:03:20 asciilifeform: until shepherded into their correct pen

19:04:21 *: asciilifeform is not burning with the desire to play eulora

19:04:44 kakobrekla: i was asked to join on several occasions

19:04:55 punkman: I played, didn't do it for me

19:04:57 kakobrekla: managed to come up with an excuse every time

19:05:59 kakobrekla: i guess that his latest 'loss leader' now

19:06:08 kakobrekla: thats*

19:06:12 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: d00d likes muds, is that a sin

19:06:27 punkman: not a mud

19:06:28 kakobrekla: muds?

19:06:34 asciilifeform: whatever they're called now

19:06:42 asciilifeform: 'multiuser dungeon'

19:06:46 punkman: would work a whole lot better with actual mud interface

19:06:47 kakobrekla: oh

19:07:02 asciilifeform: punkman: somebody iirc is writing a plain text mud interface for it

19:07:11 *: kakobrekla never heard that abbreviation before

19:07:12 punkman: yeah gl with that

19:07:17 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 1980s

19:07:18 punkman: on top of planescape

19:07:47 kakobrekla: yeah was busy wearing diapers back then

19:08:02 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: so was i

19:08:43 kakobrekla: meh, i bet you were also writing lisp on the walls your poop

19:08:54 punkman: /me has a stack of napkins with interactive text game ideas

19:09:14 kakobrekla: with* your poop i meant

19:09:26 kakobrekla: dunt worry, its a compliment

19:10:10 punkman: although text adventure is really hard to get right, mud a whole lot easier

19:16:11 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461571 << hah almost missed this

19:16:11 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 11:57:34; kakobrekla: l0l https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1948179-share-ransomware-get-free-decryption-key

19:16:48 punkman: only surprised at how long the ransomware authors figured out they should offer affiliate links

19:16:56 kakobrekla: hehe

19:18:02 kakobrekla: im afraid the only correct game by these lockers is to attack police&politics as hard as possible

19:18:13 kakobrekla: otherwise they will get ideas about 'banning btc' in their heads

19:19:11 kakobrekla: when random citizen is locked they go 'bitcoin is used for illegal stuff, we must shut it down'

19:19:23 kakobrekla: when they get attacked themselfs, they pay.

19:19:32 punkman: I've heard of 7-8 people hit with ransomware in extended meatwot, nobody paid

19:19:48 kakobrekla: i only have info about the ones that paid

19:19:53 punkman: mostly business machines too

19:20:59 kakobrekla: afaik there was some research done by bc analysis and according to that the lockers were making a bank

19:21:22 kakobrekla: some millions of fiat currency units

19:21:38 kakobrekla: no, i dont have the link

19:25:28 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: situation resembled spam. i.e. a few folx made bank, the bulk of btc addrs found in samples from the wild -- empty

19:25:53 asciilifeform: now caveat is that newer ransomtronic trojans generate btc addrs on c&c end, and pipe'em over via tor or similar.

19:26:04 asciilifeform: so now it is impossible to say anything whatsoever about these.

19:27:10 asciilifeform: imho mircea_popescu is onto something in his hypothesis that ransomware where operator 'makes bank' is really a tool used by employees to embezzle from employer

19:27:39 asciilifeform: (i.e. 1) install ransomware on 'important' winblowz box 2) complain to sysop 3) corp pays 4) profit)

19:28:09 asciilifeform: for so long as it is possible to infect a box 'by accident', a sc4mz0r who is paid to operate the box can just as easily feign the accident

19:29:31 kakobrekla: how many employers do you have?

19:30:24 asciilifeform: me?

19:30:27 kakobrekla: yes

19:30:54 asciilifeform: difficult question, several, but varies depending on how to count.

19:31:42 asciilifeform: i am not a rich d00d like kakobrekla or mircea_popescu, i write, reverse, proggies for money.

19:31:45 kakobrekla: and what is your estimation of btc amount that could be harvested by infecting all of them?

19:31:49 asciilifeform: 0

19:31:56 kakobrekla: mega bank.

19:32:15 asciilifeform: there is also 0, e.g., plutonium, to steal at any of'em

19:32:24 asciilifeform: does not mean that there exists no such place as where it is stolen.

19:32:36 asciilifeform: not everybody runs winblowz boxes, pays monkeys to operate'em

19:32:42 kakobrekla: also does not mean this is something that happens often

19:32:53 asciilifeform: i have nfi how often it happened.

19:33:21 asciilifeform: but it is one possible hypothesis re why 'some made bank, most 0' which is a fact that i observed empirically with own eyes when gathering shitware samples.

19:33:46 kakobrekla: mp is way off - folk who have jobs today dont wanna lose them with potentially making fake money

19:33:55 asciilifeform: depends on who, what job.

19:34:24 asciilifeform: for so long as the odds of being caught are perceived as 0, the idea will appeal to some people.

19:34:29 asciilifeform: and some of'em will pull it off.

19:34:36 asciilifeform: just as insurance fraud continues to exist.

19:34:37 kakobrekla: you dont make bank with a single hit on a company

19:34:52 asciilifeform: well naturally it is not a single hit,

19:35:05 asciilifeform: but a cooperation between a turdware author and a legion of unscrupulous windows monkeys

19:35:10 asciilifeform: the former - makes bank

19:35:17 asciilifeform: the latter - some small cut, on a particular occasion.

19:35:34 kakobrekla: not worth the risk

19:35:48 asciilifeform: the fella making the bank, is not taking the risk.

19:35:57 kakobrekla: for the employee

19:36:11 asciilifeform: the monkeys - take the risk. and -- unlike stealing petrol, or even paperclips -- the odds of being caught are ~0.

19:36:20 asciilifeform: 'my box got virus!!11 help'

19:37:50 kakobrekla: the ones that are making bank are doing it en masse and not giving out cuts

19:38:13 kakobrekla: that would make them vulnerable

19:38:19 asciilifeform: what's kakobrekla's alternative hypothesis re why only a handful of operators seem to make any yield

19:38:58 kakobrekla: they are better scammers

19:40:54 asciilifeform: there are only a few scammers who are any good at all ?

19:44:13 kakobrekla: why is this impossible?

19:44:41 asciilifeform: i would not say that it is impossible.

19:45:14 asciilifeform: just that it is not clear to me what would be the mechanism behind it.

19:45:38 asciilifeform: (why 10,001 folx try but 1-2 succeed ~repeatedly~, and the rest - never)

19:46:09 asciilifeform: the 'unsuccessful' infectors are not any less prevalent in the wild (e.g., collected from spam feeds)

19:46:12 asciilifeform: so that is not the reason.

19:47:13 kakobrekla: plus your assertion of 'ransomtronic trojans generate btc addrs on c&c end, and pipe'em over via tor or similar' makes it hard to establish whats the rate of success

19:48:05 asciilifeform: in these -- yes

19:48:21 asciilifeform: was speaking of the remainder.

19:48:48 jurov: waitwhat, there's some ransomware that generates the addy on *users end*?

19:48:53 asciilifeform: nooo

19:48:55 asciilifeform: that'd be silly.

19:48:58 asciilifeform: on c&c end.

19:49:20 asciilifeform: y'know, in same place it sends the rsa'd symmetric key to.

19:49:47 punkman: they could do "HD" wallet and generate on user end

19:50:22 asciilifeform: punkman: reverser could enumerate the possible pubkeys then

19:50:33 asciilifeform: so it'd defeat the purpose of per-user addr generation

19:50:49 asciilifeform: (presumably -- to obscure total yield)

19:51:25 kakobrekla: or just to identify the victim

19:51:27 punkman: not saying it'd make sense, but they'll do it anyway

19:51:36 asciilifeform: punkman: it'd have 0 actual effect.

19:52:04 kakobrekla: how else are you gonna know who paid? by using a speicific amount to identify depsoits? cmon, they are no as retarded as mp is.

19:53:34 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: pray tell what, specifically, is wrong with using decimal noise to identify deposits ?

19:53:41 jurov: if people are told that "nope your amount was mismatched, pay again" and they obey, that is not retarded :D

19:54:06 kakobrekla: jurov crypto lockers are more friendly with a good tech support

19:54:34 jurov: i know. just poking some fun

19:54:46 kakobrekla: hard to tell sometimes!

19:55:45 kakobrekla: asciilifeform yeah, given the severely limited supply of bitcoin deposit addresses you might be right.

19:57:13 kakobrekla: i dont even know why do we have uniqe deposit accounts with sepa banking

19:57:22 kakobrekla: makes no sense!

19:57:45 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: in the case of ransomware, the communication is never solely over bitcoin

19:58:15 kakobrekla: the ware goes 'pay at least x to y'

19:58:29 jurov: you know about a week ago this was discussed in #t and i was literally told that accounts are evil and real bitcoin business must do without

19:58:31 kakobrekla: victim goes to buttstamp enteres x and perhaps not x comes out

19:58:38 kakobrekla: maybe they take fee

19:58:44 kakobrekla: maybe the minimum withdrawal is rounded

19:58:48 kakobrekla: maybe who the fuck knows what

19:59:08 asciilifeform: yes but 'y' can vary based on day of week / NIC mac addr / etc. picked from a list of addrs carried in the payload, and sent also over some backchannel

19:59:09 jurov: trinque was like "only losers do mistakes", etc. etc. quite a trip.

19:59:17 kakobrekla: l0l jurov

19:59:34 kakobrekla: idiots will be idiots, what can you do

20:03:44 jurov: Kinda sign of times. Ransomware ought to have user support, legit business like NSA not.

20:03:59 kakobrekla: :D

20:04:03 kakobrekla: !b 2

20:04:04 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/30ZDVMK.txt )

20:04:31 asciilifeform: 'battery in my bug died, where do i call'

20:15:53 kakobrekla: dunno, we get 24mo of guarantee on those here

20:22:01 kakobrekla: btw jurov recall when my was outed to fake new account registrations, he quickly came up with uniqe deposit addresses for folks. megal0l

20:22:17 kakobrekla: s/my/mp

20:22:33 kakobrekla: ps2 converter glitching :\

20:22:44 kakobrekla: or maybe keyboard

20:23:25 asciilifeform: when did he introduce unique addrs ?

20:23:32 asciilifeform: iirc he uses same ones eternally

20:23:42 kakobrekla: i just told you when

20:24:18 punkman: what was mpex main address?

20:24:25 asciilifeform: better q, how did kakobrekla determine that this had happened ?

20:24:34 kakobrekla: its in the fucking logs

20:24:50 asciilifeform: link plox?

20:25:13 kakobrekla: recall when we discussed how arheologist will dig through tonnes of shit to find the golden nugget?

20:25:28 asciilifeform: not immediately

20:25:29 kakobrekla: i aint no archaeologist

20:25:31 asciilifeform: can haz link?

20:26:09 kakobrekla: maybe jurov recalls something speicifc that would make it easier to find ?

20:26:30 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-03-2015#1067431

20:26:30 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 10:42:04; punkman: maybe the shareholders didn't like that all new accounts are depositing to private addresses?

20:26:53 punkman: not the link, but should be near

20:26:53 kakobrekla: lol

20:26:57 kakobrekla: we are replying this over and over

20:26:58 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-05-2016#1448599

20:26:58 assbot: Logged on 24-05-2016 15:30:53; kakobrekla: jurov got a link handy where we ask mp about mpex new account fees & the lack of those in bc ?

20:27:02 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-05-2016#1448600

20:27:02 assbot: Logged on 24-05-2016 15:31:59; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-03-2015#1058371

20:27:12 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-03-2015#1058371

20:27:12 assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 22:02:03; kakobrekla: thats so unlike mp.

20:27:19 kakobrekla: i think its there

20:27:45 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058382

20:27:45 assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 22:08:31; mircea_popescu: not how that works. generally if they get one they get one for all their stuff.

20:28:19 kakobrekla: ofcourse the fact was noone was depositing to 1fx anything.

20:28:22 asciilifeform: sounds like he gives each user own addr

20:28:25 asciilifeform: rather than each tx

20:28:27 kakobrekla: or to any other non existing address

20:29:09 kakobrekla: what happened to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2016#1461738

20:29:09 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2016 19:53:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: pray tell what, specifically, is wrong with using decimal noise to identify deposits ?

20:29:42 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: let's take example of a program that i wrote, rather than mp

20:29:48 asciilifeform: the FUCKGOATS shop proggy.

20:30:36 asciilifeform: when you enter a catalogue item and qty, it gives you the addr (there's only one, pgpsigned by mp) and an amount. the latter is specific to your order.

20:30:48 kakobrekla: eh for all i care you can accept your buttcoins to dogecoin address

20:31:12 asciilifeform: i'd like to hear kakobrekla's 'this is bad idea because...'

20:31:34 punkman: asciilifeform: might work fine for s.nsa, but do you think it'd work for bitbet?

20:31:35 kakobrekla: i wont be repeating myself

20:34:19 punkman: https://blockchain.info/address/1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx is this it?

20:34:20 assbot: Bitcoin Address 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx ... ( http://bit.ly/2hyiCo8 )

20:34:42 kakobrekla: most likely

20:36:00 asciilifeform: punkman: which it

20:36:08 punkman: main address

20:36:14 asciilifeform: the one i was describing lives at http://shop.nosuchlabs.com/static/signed_address.txt

20:36:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2hyixjY )

20:37:30 punkman: asciilifeform: ah no I was saying if you think decimal protocol would work for bitbet

20:37:47 asciilifeform: punkman: it isn't clear that a bbet is a thing that can work at all.

20:38:08 kakobrekla: what a neat fallback l0l

20:38:17 punkman: eh it worked

20:39:21 kakobrekla: yeah it worked until both parties running it were honest

20:39:23 asciilifeform: it worked while it worked. by which token a well-thrown brick is quite the same as airplane.

20:39:27 kakobrekla: once discrepancy in honesty happened it didnt

20:39:42 punkman: anyway, whoever wants can take mpex address and http://fraudsters.com/category/mpex/ and see how well the statements match

20:39:43 assbot: MPEx on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/2hyj4lY )

20:39:59 kakobrekla: punkman it was already established they dont

20:40:28 asciilifeform: punkman: describe briefly how one might go about doing this

20:40:35 kakobrekla: at that point mp had to make up the shit about giving out unique and private bitcoin addresses for the creation of new accounts

20:41:04 kakobrekla: which was just another slip in the losing the mask process

20:41:46 punkman: asciilifeform: you should be able to find txes matching mpex account fee of the time, plus decimals

20:42:37 asciilifeform: punkman: if you do this exercise, please consider posting the result

20:42:54 asciilifeform: sounds simple enough, i am left to wonder why kakobrekla hadn't bothered

20:43:05 asciilifeform: if the verdict is as obvious as he suggests

20:43:15 kakobrekla: the log links above link to the time when jurov noticed this and i pressed mp

20:43:56 kakobrekla: but feel free to reinvent the wheel

20:44:55 asciilifeform: hey if kakobrekla posts ~algorithmic~ process whereby 'nobody ever actually paid mpex, QED' at the end -- i'll follow along.

20:45:17 punkman: why nobody ever

20:45:19 asciilifeform: let's have, e.g., perl script, that takes a current blockchain and outputs.

20:45:43 asciilifeform: outputs a 'mpex was paid X'

20:46:03 asciilifeform: and defend that x is the correct number, and that it was impossible for it to have been some other, y.

20:46:05 jurov: we know how much the 1Fx addy was paid and when

20:46:21 asciilifeform: jurov: do you also know that it was the only addr ?

20:46:26 asciilifeform: ( if so, how ? )

20:46:42 jurov: it was claimed to be

20:47:29 asciilifeform: was there a corresponding oath that there are no others ?

20:47:43 kakobrekla: am i the only one smelling strong concentration of bias?

20:49:04 asciilifeform: i could readily believe that mp bought accts on mpex with own coin when business was slow. (imho this is not per se damning, if rockefeller had bought petrol with own money from standard oil, to sell later, this was also scam ??)

20:49:13 asciilifeform: but i have no way to know that this was so, or not.

20:49:22 jurov: asciilifeform: just it appears some 50 mpex accounts made an oath NOT to use it

20:49:36 asciilifeform: mpex accts could make public oaths ?!

20:49:43 asciilifeform: where can i read the signed documents ?

20:50:09 kakobrekla: [21:49:05] i could readily believe that mp bought accts on mpex with own coin when business was slow < however lying about it would be lying.

20:50:13 jurov: it's missing transaction

20:50:24 asciilifeform: there's 2 separate q's here -- did he buy mpex accts ? and -- did he somehow promise kakobrekla and jurov that he would never ?

20:51:05 jurov: no no, get back to the facts

20:51:10 kakobrekla: my take is that he was always doing it, but then became lazy and did not bother to do bc transactions any longer

20:51:16 jurov: the claim was, someone bough 50 mpex accounts

20:51:22 kakobrekla: so he made a cover up story about unique accounts

20:51:35 kakobrekla: but yes, as jurov says.

20:51:41 jurov: but there were no transactions, nobody said in channel he did, no nothing

20:51:59 jurov: that's all.

20:52:07 asciilifeform: let's suppose that he bought, with own coin, every mpex acct other than jurov's and kakobrekla's

20:52:14 asciilifeform: (i cannot disprove this hypothesis, fwiw)

20:52:28 asciilifeform: somehow jurov and kakobrekla did not object to this, while it added up to free payola into their own pockets.

20:52:31 kakobrekla: i believe one was sold to wences

20:52:34 punkman: asciilifeform: imho this is not per se damning << I don't really care about it. but after it follows claims of first best biggest etc

20:52:34 asciilifeform: why object now.

20:52:42 kakobrekla: because it became apparent later

20:52:57 kakobrekla: everything is apprent after the fact

20:52:58 jurov: why not? he just bombastically announced how he moved 100BTC from one pocket to another (eulora)

20:53:17 jurov: it's completely usual practice for mp

20:53:21 asciilifeform: it was ~lucrative~ then. so none of you gave half a shit.

20:53:34 kakobrekla: i did not make any money from fake mp desposits

20:53:50 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: ahahaha and your ipo just 'happened'

20:53:57 asciilifeform: and would have happened just the same sans mpex ?!

20:54:09 asciilifeform: and the money came from provably-folks-other-than-mp..?

20:54:14 kakobrekla: how is this related to fake new account deposits?

20:54:55 kakobrekla: there exist a number of mpex accounts which were given out for free

20:55:02 asciilifeform: it is related in that kakobrekla did not give half a shit whether mpex has actual customers, or simply a way in which mp slowly gave away an ancient and massive stash of coin

20:55:04 punkman: also, if I am to agree that since rentalstarter anons never took up offer for free btc, therefore they do not exist. Shouldn't I also think that if almost nobody ever showed up to request mpex tech support in the forum, their existence is dubious?

20:55:05 kakobrekla: mine was such and everyone who was on irc at the begining got one

20:55:12 asciilifeform: kakobrekla only began to care when he stopped profiting.

20:55:12 kakobrekla: you just had to say 'yes'

20:55:29 kakobrekla: slowly give away ?

20:55:30 kakobrekla: what

20:55:38 asciilifeform: well yes, mpoe payed dividends

20:55:45 kakobrekla: i got 0.5k btc off ipo which was 5k fiat monies back then

20:55:48 asciilifeform: and kakobrekla's ipo coin came from somewhere.

20:55:55 asciilifeform: (where ? if 'no one uses mpex')

20:56:11 asciilifeform: or for that matter, where's s.nsa's from.

20:56:11 kakobrekla: there were users back then

20:56:16 kakobrekla: especially in the s.dice time

20:56:41 kakobrekla: how can you even talk about times you were not around for?

20:56:51 asciilifeform: i cannot, and so resort to asking kakobrekla

20:56:53 jurov: asciilifeform: s.nsa was mostly me and TAT

20:57:00 asciilifeform: how did kakobrekla learn that the users went away ?

20:57:25 asciilifeform: jurov: as i understand, you and whoever-else -- sold it. who bought ? martians ?

20:57:44 jurov: yes i know who the new owher is and he's very remorseful

20:57:53 kakobrekla: :D

20:57:58 kakobrekla: ah the naive alf

20:58:03 kakobrekla: so smart but so naive

20:58:05 asciilifeform: jurov: and i should believe you because ...?

20:58:09 jurov: dunno why he's not raising hell, but wuold not help him, i guess

20:58:22 jurov: asciilifeform: because the transaction took place on coinbr?

20:58:59 kakobrekla: i dont think he is asking 'how do you know'

20:59:09 kakobrekla: but 'how do i know you are not lying to me'

20:59:23 asciilifeform: i am asking why i ought to believe jurov's rumour and innuendo vs the other d00d's.

20:59:53 kakobrekla: i guess wot is useless.

20:59:57 kakobrekla: hehe

21:00:12 asciilifeform: btw i'd happily buy mr.remorseful's shares if i had a container for them.

21:00:15 asciilifeform: which i do not.

21:00:22 *: kakobrekla is having mega fun

21:00:50 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aren't you supposed to be on a boat? or was that later

21:00:58 kakobrekla: plane

21:01:33 kakobrekla: havent bought the ticket yet

21:01:40 kakobrekla: but this does not prevent me from laughing out loud

21:03:15 punkman: from better times http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whats-the-plan-with-mpoempex/

21:03:16 assbot: So what's the plan with MPOE/MPEx ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/2haKwcK )

21:04:24 asciilifeform: incidentally jurov :

21:04:50 asciilifeform: if jurov believes that mpex was an elaborate sham from day1, or even that it became on on day_t, how does he in good conscience continue to operate coinbr ?

21:05:22 punkman: I don't think there's a day_t

21:05:43 asciilifeform: or, unrelatedly, if jurov believes that trb is a futile and useless thing, and that asciilifeform et al are morons, what the fuck is he doing as treasurer of trb?

21:05:45 punkman: but mpex was, and now isn't

21:06:10 punkman: I think everybody thinks trb is futile, hence nobody working much on it

21:06:30 asciilifeform: punkman: what, in your view, would it look like if 'people were working on it' ?

21:06:34 asciilifeform: would resemble prb ?

21:06:50 asciilifeform: for instance, at this moment folks are testing 'importprivkey' and 'rawtx' patches

21:06:58 asciilifeform: this takes months, because trb is not prb.

21:07:23 asciilifeform: there is no usg paying for mit lab monkeys, it is a few people in their spare hours.

21:07:28 punkman: well what was it, "don't change the air filters"?

21:07:45 punkman: trb doesn't wallet very good

21:08:00 asciilifeform: punkman: care to be more specific ?

21:08:28 asciilifeform: prb, i will add, does not verify the chain, and therefore it literally does not matter how well 'it wallets'.

21:08:33 asciilifeform: you ain't using bitcoin.

21:08:40 jurov: asciilifeform: it was not a sham. just there was some "augmentation"

21:09:11 punkman: trb doesn't significant part of the chain, had a recent thread

21:09:13 jurov: and same "augmentation" is applied to inflate trb bigger than it is

21:09:15 asciilifeform: jurov: kakobrekla implied that it'd have been a sinful thing to do.

21:09:16 punkman: *doesn't verify

21:09:29 asciilifeform: punkman: it verifies blocks 0 ... current.

21:09:31 jurov: maybe it will work out, maybe not. but for mpex, it did not work out.

21:09:40 asciilifeform: punkman: instead of 'headers sync' idiocy.

21:09:41 kakobrekla: well mp is a great salesman

21:09:43 punkman: yes except verifying p2sh txes

21:09:48 kakobrekla: too bad he is selling liquid manure.

21:09:54 jurov: kakobrekla has own definition of sin, you do another

21:10:26 punkman: and the problem before my verifyall patch, was that it skipped verification of regular tx signatures

21:10:39 punkman: shame on me for half fix

21:11:22 asciilifeform: punkman: i beg pardon, yours??

21:11:23 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000120.html

21:11:24 assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Add '-verifyall' option. ... ( http://bit.ly/1COZ3BA )

21:11:28 jurov: i'm just trying to learn something without getting burned. that's the reality that things need to get inflated by hot air, otherwise no fly

21:11:59 jurov: but i slowly lean to opinion that mp does not know how to do it right

21:12:04 punkman: asciilifeform: I remember doing the experiment first, maybe I'm getting senile?

21:12:20 asciilifeform: punkman: for all i know, some d00d who never even spoke to me did it first.

21:12:32 punkman: I posted in log

21:12:47 asciilifeform: link?

21:12:56 asciilifeform: (i'll believe punkman if he indeed had same thing first.)

21:13:07 asciilifeform: must not have signed, or posted to ml ?

21:13:28 asciilifeform: mine appears to be the only version in the ml, or in http://btcbase.org/patches

21:13:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SP5343 )

21:14:20 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149518

21:14:20 assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 09:11:43; punkman: and when I tried to verify all of them, it blew up before block 150k

21:14:51 punkman: there was trb channel, possibly some more of it might be there

21:15:10 asciilifeform: punkman: understand, there are 2 separate subjects here. there is what various folks, incl. asciilifeform, punkman, whoever, did as private experiments; and there is trb. the latter consists of signed patches.

21:15:17 asciilifeform: (after august 2015 -- vpatches.)

21:15:26 punkman: pretty sure I posted code

21:15:41 asciilifeform: if it wasn't in a signed patch, it may have been interesting, meritorious, whatever, but it was not happening on trb planet.

21:15:50 asciilifeform: understand this ?

21:17:06 asciilifeform: punkman: the only 'trb channel' i know of is #fraudsters-mod6, where he posts miscellaneous pastes, but that one is recent

21:17:17 asciilifeform: the canonical record is jurov's ml

21:18:57 punkman: http://dpaste.com/2FKF676

21:18:59 assbot: dpaste: 2FKF676 ... ( http://bit.ly/2haMFoS )

21:19:27 asciilifeform: lulzy, nobody invited asciilifeform .

21:20:38 asciilifeform: it is mentioned in the l0gz, though. i slept through it.

21:21:04 asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-04#1041352 )

21:21:06 assbot: tmsr ... ( http://bit.ly/2haHyoL )

21:21:47 asciilifeform: punkman: how come you never signed and uploaded the very useful patch to the ml ?

21:21:56 asciilifeform: why didja leave the chore for asciilifeform .

21:22:22 punkman: I thought you copy pasted it

21:22:34 asciilifeform: fwiw i did not

21:22:46 punkman: it's a one-liner anyway

21:22:51 asciilifeform: (but may as well have!)

21:22:51 asciilifeform: aha

21:23:12 asciilifeform: it is difficult to copy-paste a thing you never get shown.

21:23:55 punkman: I remember I had to bring verification issue a few times before it became a vpatch

21:24:02 punkman: v didn't exist yet

21:24:14 punkman: *bring up

21:24:37 asciilifeform: punkman: i introduced v in aug of '15, but signed patches on ml were the norm from day1.

21:24:53 asciilifeform: (they simply were not vtronic, and one had to apply them manually in the correct order)

21:24:54 punkman: anyway, I thought verification was important then, I still think it is. I can't really pretend "p2sh didn't happen"

21:25:06 asciilifeform: punkman: submit patches! whatchawaitingfor.

21:25:22 punkman: patch what first?

21:25:43 asciilifeform: if you see it as useful to, e.g., verify weirdo tx, write a patch...

21:26:03 asciilifeform: post it in the ml

21:26:29 punkman: well sure I could maintain trb branch with p2sh verification for my own enjoyment, but what's the point if noone uses

21:26:48 asciilifeform: understand, trb is two things, there is mod6 and ben_vulpes's canonical releases, and then there is the vtree

21:27:22 asciilifeform: if mod6 et al do not like punkman's patches, it simply means they will not be in the canonical build; but punkmanists can still press ~his~ vtree

21:27:34 punkman: yeah but if I wanna add my miner-snip or logging-sanity things, it's a whole lot of regrinding

21:27:39 asciilifeform: why ?

21:28:01 punkman: because lots of patches after them

21:28:26 asciilifeform: incidentally afaik those are uncontroversial and if punkman were to propose them today, they would probably get adopted by ~everyone

21:28:27 punkman: and then you make a new experimental vpatch on your own tree

21:28:33 punkman: and yet more regrind

21:28:59 asciilifeform: punkman: you structure the controversial items in such a way that they clash minimally with the things you may want to press into your own tree later.

21:30:06 asciilifeform: regrinding etc. is a chore, but the chore buys you something. just like working your garden buys you something you cannot get any other way. and if you don't want -- nobody is forcing you...

21:34:14 punkman: chore is ok. but you add up chores, gnarly codebase, c++, and I can write p2p node from scratch in say python, and instrument the thing properly

21:34:23 punkman: in about the same time

21:34:24 asciilifeform: go -- write.

21:34:38 punkman: I'm seriously considering it past few weeks

21:34:51 asciilifeform: there's a dozen of these. go -- write.

21:35:04 punkman: p2p node first, just shit in mouth of node, eat from ass. then work from there

21:35:27 asciilifeform: it isn't an impossible thing to do.

21:35:37 asciilifeform: but it won't be ~reference~ bitcoin, which was what trb is for.

21:36:07 asciilifeform: if its function diverges from that of trb, including the scenario where it can only happen once in 20 years under yet-unknown conditions -- you have failed

21:36:18 punkman: motivation is to have sellable parachute for segwit fork

21:36:19 asciilifeform: and everyone who used your proggy - was idiot.

21:37:18 asciilifeform: python's pretty heavy

21:37:26 asciilifeform: can i fit it in 4MB like i fit linux kernel + trb ?

21:37:29 kakobrekla: speaking of idiots, sadly the reference is what the majority of network will eat.

21:37:43 kakobrekla: i have no wish to use trb when there are 5 nodes and 0 use for it.

21:37:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: nobody's making you..

21:37:58 punkman: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ver9-2k.png not super-worrying yet

21:37:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2fS4UhH )

21:38:24 asciilifeform: punkman: other interesting aspect, what happens when i flood your node with rubbish from 10,000,001 ips ? how does the garbage collector behave ?

21:38:28 kakobrekla: its how this consensus sw was designed

21:38:44 kakobrekla: fighting it is banging your head to the wall

21:38:49 punkman: asciilifeform: better than trb for sure

21:38:56 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: you can stuff the usg 'consensus' you know very well where.

21:39:17 kakobrekla: and you can stuff your 5 nodes coin with 0 practical use you know very well where.

21:39:22 asciilifeform: punkman: the trb nodes have public, static ips, you are invited to demonstrate experimentally.

21:39:36 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: for all you know i operate mine directly in arse.

21:39:41 punkman: asciilifeform: if its function diverges from that of trb ... << I dispute that the foundation has produced a reference client

21:39:52 asciilifeform: punkman: elaborate.

21:40:22 punkman: does it mine?

21:40:26 punkman: does it wallet?

21:40:29 punkman: does it node?

21:40:33 asciilifeform: it does all 3

21:40:47 asciilifeform: (you can hook your particular miner to it, if you wish)

21:40:58 punkman: not as is

21:41:03 punkman: the miner part

21:41:21 asciilifeform: nobody's bothered to implement a fast miner for it, to date, afaik.

21:41:36 asciilifeform: but it will cpumine (only really useful for testing on own lan, pretend that it is 2009, etc)

21:41:39 punkman: you can't unless you rewrite

21:42:01 asciilifeform: rewrite what ?

21:42:26 punkman: fast miner needs rewrite of mining code in trb

21:42:49 asciilifeform: the mining code in trb is semantically valid.

21:43:04 asciilifeform: it's only purpose is to represent what mining ~is~. that's what makes the thing a 'reference'

21:43:23 kakobrekla: meaning its not usable

21:43:49 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: are you in particular involved in mining ?

21:44:14 punkman: what mining is today, trb doesn't do

21:44:19 kakobrekla: but i am irrelevant

21:44:22 asciilifeform: nobody mines on cpu, at any rate, so i am hard pressed to see what 'fast miner in trb' would look like .

21:44:47 asciilifeform: in the view of punkman , kakobrekla , trb ought to include routine for speaking with every known (and unknown...) asic ?

21:45:10 asciilifeform: in order to say that 'mining works in trb'

21:45:40 punkman: just one routine would be good

21:45:43 kakobrekla: there is a protocol that real world asics use

21:45:58 kakobrekla: whats it called again

21:46:02 kakobrekla: i forgot

21:46:08 kakobrekla: GBT?

21:46:25 asciilifeform: see, imho skeptical folx like punkman , kakobrekla , would do wonders on trb planet. they could do much good. but as i can see here, none of you are interested in approaching it from productive angle. instead you are only interested in throwing shit, like monkey, in any direction that smells vaguely like mircea_popescu.

21:46:39 asciilifeform: which is why you 'trb suxxxxx!!111' ~here~ , instead of on the trb ml

21:46:54 kakobrekla: you dont have to listen to it

21:46:54 asciilifeform: ( i don't recall jurov banning kakobrekla or punkman from the ml )

21:47:07 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i come here specifically to listen to it.

21:47:17 asciilifeform: it is theoretically useful.

21:47:27 kakobrekla: yeah was afraid so

21:47:55 asciilifeform: you folx can always kibbitz over pm if you feel like.

21:48:06 asciilifeform: or use the mega-seekrit meta-#ba etc.

21:48:29 punkman: I'm not trying to throw shit, but I can't pretend we have a reference client sorry

21:48:36 kakobrekla: metaba was needed only when mp was still derping here

21:48:51 asciilifeform: punkman: if you post a 'you sukkkk, this is not reference client' to the ml, i promise to read.

21:49:24 kakobrekla: i think there are easier ways to talk to bricks than posting there

21:49:52 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it is very easy to 'win' argument when you can't be arsed to engage with opponent at all.

21:49:56 asciilifeform: but it is wankery.

21:50:04 asciilifeform: even if you are correct about all of it.

21:50:16 kakobrekla: i do not seek to prove to be correct

21:51:17 *: asciilifeform brb

21:54:07 jurov: i did not update the ml key list yet, except for some expirations

21:54:11 punkman: asciilifeform: I think I've brought many arguments in teh logs and you've already read. not all of them good, I admit.

21:55:29 jurov: i have popcorn ready, someday there will be fireworks over who does (not) belong there :)

21:58:37 jurov: BUT! if noone from #b-a ever writes, there will be no case to uphold assbot's L2

21:59:52 kakobrekla: > instead you are only interested in throwing shit, like monkey, in any direction that smells vaguely like mircea_popescu. < the better civilizations have figured out that its best to collect shit in one place instead of having it spread out all around

22:00:52 punkman: I still like MP but apparently my brain broke and point deer no longer make horse

22:02:10 punkman: and if it doesn't make horse, you are crediting the empire

22:14:23 punkman: does it node? << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424698

22:14:23 assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 15:33:49; dooglus: core doesn't like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages

22:14:34 punkman: was there a vpatch?

22:16:53 punkman: does it wallet? << I remember at least a couple threads about stuck wallets because of malleated txes. iirc it doesn't do compressed pubkeys, so you gotta pay for more bytes.

22:17:23 punkman: yes theoretically it does everything, but you gotta move to mars first

22:23:47 punkman: the foundation produced many interesting things, no dispute: finding out that we couldn't compile any fucking thing statically, coming up with the buildroot rituals, the making of V, and more

22:54:12 asciilifeform: the stuck-wallets thing was fixed.

22:54:33 asciilifeform: i personally do not send tx very often, but the last dozen or so went in without incident.

22:54:42 asciilifeform: (since mod6's high-S patch)

23:02:42 asciilifeform: and, while we're at it, trb is 100% static and has been for a year+.

23:03:23 asciilifeform: (90% of everything i, in particular, did in it, was to make this happen)

23:06:14 asciilifeform: and incidentally kakobrekla can blather on about mircea_popescu's missile battery being a fiction, but every day that the prb folk don't dare to fork the chain, is a trb victory.

23:06:49 asciilifeform: they would, yes, like to steal the various value (usd, etc) that has been pumped into the 'old potato'

23:07:41 asciilifeform: and kakobrekla , punkman , et al can go on thinking that it has not yet happened solely because 'they haven't got around to it', or 'can't be arsed'

23:07:54 asciilifeform: rather than because the miners understand that they ~will~ be thermonuked.

23:08:08 asciilifeform: and the prb tools understand that the miners -- understand.

23:15:20 kakobrekla: if you think miners are even aware of trb you are delusional -- but who am i to stop you!

23:15:51 kakobrekla: proclaim all the victories you want!

23:24:42 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the funniest bit is, if 'potato' went to 0 tonight, asciilifeform would not even sneeze. whereas kakobrekla might have to do honest work for a living...

23:26:28 kakobrekla: might. i surely do stand to lose more than you, thats why this is important to me.

23:26:43 kakobrekla: and not important to you.

23:26:46 asciilifeform: that d00d is what stands between kakobrekla and honest work.

23:26:58 kakobrekla: you mean santa? yeah.

23:28:39 kakobrekla: i wonder what would take for alf to see thermonukes are firecrackers.

23:28:53 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: very simple experiment, chain fork, and gavincoin wins.

23:29:10 asciilifeform: then we see that the rocket tube -- was empty.

23:29:17 asciilifeform: and not before.

23:29:25 kakobrekla: i think you and mp will come up with some new exuse why reality does not apply to your delusions.

23:29:31 kakobrekla: you always do.

23:30:16 asciilifeform: it isn't even about mircea in particular -- if none of the large btc holders stand up for their holdings, the thing was not long for this world.

23:30:32 kakobrekla: theoretical q: if we have a hardfork that increases blocksize for 1 byte, what does trb do?

23:30:42 asciilifeform: reject the shitblocks.

23:30:45 asciilifeform: this is mystery ?

23:30:59 kakobrekla: cool, i hope we have a hardfork that increases blocksize for 1 byte :)

23:31:17 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 1 byte, misformat, whichever you like.

23:31:39 asciilifeform: can start war with any caliber you like.

23:31:57 kakobrekla: you can imagine to have a war yes

23:32:01 kakobrekla: kids do it ~every day

23:32:11 kakobrekla: with invisible swords and wooden guns etc

23:32:22 kakobrekla: also lazerz *pew*pew*

23:32:23 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: until there is actual fork , there is only the imaginary one.

23:32:45 asciilifeform: which kakobrekla is quite certain of sitting on winning side of, because he prays to usg, yes.

23:33:11 kakobrekla: yeah i heard a lot of nonsene about me from your end, another bs does not surprise me at all.

23:33:16 *: kakobrekla does not pray

23:33:44 asciilifeform: out of curiosity, is kakobrekla of the view that 'mp won't' or 'he hasn't with what'

23:34:29 kakobrekla: he can sell all his btc but it wont have any considerable effect

23:34:42 asciilifeform: then it's 'hasn't with what' ?

23:34:57 kakobrekla: he may as well change his mind and go with 'wont'

23:35:03 kakobrekla: you know how he turns, like the wind

23:35:07 kakobrekla: one day is this, the other that

23:35:14 asciilifeform: because it is a little difficult to picture how, say, 1mil btc, either sold on open market, or given as subsidy strictly to compliant miners, would have 0 effect.

23:35:14 jurov: asciilifeform: out of curiosity how do you reconcile "chinese miners scammed bitbet out of 18btc" and "trb will inevitably win"

23:35:23 asciilifeform: jurov: the man wasn't using trb iirc.

23:35:31 asciilifeform: was using his own broken crackpot client.

23:35:43 jurov: but trb behaved the same way at the time

23:36:11 jurov: and the question was not abut the client, but how do you imagine winning when miners just piss on you from high above?

23:36:12 kakobrekla: what 1mil btc, are you stupid or what?

23:36:24 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: then say, straight, 'he hasn't with what.'

23:36:29 asciilifeform: is the answer i was looking for.

23:36:32 asciilifeform: why the weaseling.

23:36:53 kakobrekla: why not say 22 mil then

23:36:57 kakobrekla: if we are making shit up

23:37:07 asciilifeform: jurov: all we learned is that 18 btc was not provocation enough to launch the thermonuke over (would you ?)

23:37:26 kakobrekla: l0l

23:37:42 jurov: do you have an oath what it was meant as?

23:37:52 jurov: every time i ask mp about it, i get different answer

23:37:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if mp was buying at $1 whereever he could, it is theoretically plausible that he ended up with a tall pile. how tall, i have nfi

23:38:08 kakobrekla: i suspect that if i go to us to visit alf i wont find him, will need a space ship to another planet

23:38:28 asciilifeform: jurov: of what

23:38:43 asciilifeform: (and about which does jurov get 'different answer' ? )

23:38:57 jurov: wtf he sent 0fee tx

23:39:26 asciilifeform: jurov: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem << mp's story, for your refresh

23:39:28 assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TrZ7yS )

23:39:50 kakobrekla: the genre is 'fantasy'

23:40:13 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: which statement in there did you dispute the factuality of ?

23:40:19 asciilifeform: i still have yet to hear answer to this

23:41:00 kakobrekla: do you ask these questions trying to waste maxint of my time?

23:41:27 jurov: asciilifeform: so you say the sequence of transactions was premeditated? that is a plain lie

23:41:57 asciilifeform: jurov: from my reading, everything from item 1 was attempt to fix the mistake of item 0

23:41:59 asciilifeform: (the 0fee tx)

23:42:26 jurov: so make up your mind. either it wa mistake or provocation?

23:42:44 asciilifeform: i say - mistake

23:44:07 asciilifeform: ( if he had done it deliberately, probably would have by now explained wtf )

23:44:16 jurov: and, to backtrack to the topic, if there is any implication from this incident to "in case of fork trb will win" claim, then it is very negative

23:44:53 asciilifeform: jurov: if btc as a whole is being sunk , from his pov, by a successful chain fork, then it makes logical sense to launch the nuke

23:44:59 asciilifeform: and not for pocket change

23:45:05 asciilifeform: or is jurov playing stupid.

23:45:21 asciilifeform: 'oh he didn't for 18, so he hasn't with what'

23:46:03 jurov: another option: you just don't have ny nukes

23:46:22 jurov: *any

23:46:34 asciilifeform: whole reason why 'nuke' is the model here, is that there is no way to know who has what, until it goes off.

23:48:47 jurov: It was basically known that it is possible and that it will be eventually used.

23:49:48 jurov: I don't see what's the "possible" here. MP so far hasn't pulled anything like it.

23:50:22 jurov: mpex has not took the world by storm. eulora ditto.

23:50:23 asciilifeform: the 'use' requires a chain split

23:50:34 kakobrekla: bascially you should trust a hot air blowing liar that something that wont happen will happen

23:50:38 kakobrekla: good luck with that :)

23:50:51 jurov: virtual nuke!!!

23:51:40 asciilifeform: i haven't, again, any reason to think that mp-has-with-what, other than indirect clues (d00d was buying at $1, and was by any reasonable measure pretty loaded) aaaaaand no-fork-yet.

23:52:17 kakobrekla: yeah well moon also has not crashed into the earth yet so therfore he must have the money

23:52:43 asciilifeform: if fork-but-no-nuke -- then we learn that kakobrekla was right, and mp was hruschev, who -- at this point i think is well-known -- had a total of 2 rockets at the time of cuban crisis (and neither, likely, worked)

23:53:02 asciilifeform: hruschev, incidentally, won that one.

23:53:13 asciilifeform: despite ~0 working nuke.

23:53:17 asciilifeform: and opponent with ~infinite money.

23:53:21 kakobrekla: yeah, very trump like.

23:53:39 kakobrekla: "I HAVE THE BEST WORDS!!!"

23:54:00 *: jurov just remembered how mp repeatedly lectured alf how nukes are useless. such irony.

23:54:24 asciilifeform: same gambit failed, however, for germany, whose inflatable tank park ended up 'flattened' famously by single wooden bomb from britain. because the tank park was implausible.

23:54:28 jurov: and he aven used an example of bombing chinese!

23:54:38 kakobrekla: fork will come, nukes wont fire, mp will lecture how he still has them, saving them for later :)

23:54:56 asciilifeform: jurov: whether d00d is a crackpot, or knows his arse from his elbow, are entirely separate questions.

23:55:08 asciilifeform: i, fwiw, also crackpot, etc.

23:55:47 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: your prediction has been noted! i'd offer to bbet even!111 but haven't bbet.

23:56:01 kakobrekla: ok

23:56:14 asciilifeform: (nor will kakobrekla have anything to pay with if he loses...)

23:56:40 kakobrekla: i can leave a pile of btc sitting

23:56:53 kakobrekla: for as long as you dont make tx you are in all camps

23:57:13 asciilifeform: iirc bbet did not even take bets on btccalypses

23:57:19 asciilifeform: (the semantics are difficult)

23:57:29 asciilifeform: did it?

23:57:50 kakobrekla: i dun recall