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Transcript for 11-01-2016, 1507 lines:

00:04:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.000505 = 7.5498 BTC [+]

00:05:01 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there is this comic called "The Boys" where superheroes are just a thing. Anyhow super heroes cause more trouble than what it's worth. To solve one problem the fuck up 100 other things, so "The Boys" are sent in to keep the peace. I've realized the power rangers do exactly that. Very public displays of "whatever fix", which ends up breaking 50 other things that have to eventually be fixed.

00:05:11 thestringpuller: It's unreal.

00:05:44 mircea_popescu: well that's the only fucking end result when illiterate people get involved in "fixing" shit they didn't read.

00:05:48 asciilifeform: the unfortunate thing is that merely ignoring prb has not worked. now there is ecological cleanup work to be done.

00:06:28 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jesus-fixed.jpg

00:06:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NbQft0 )

00:06:50 asciilifeform: wai wut

00:06:55 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: exactly. and they probably are saying to themselves secretly "oh tmsr will fix it"

00:07:17 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: EXACTLY!

00:08:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37456 @ 0.00050544 = 18.9318 BTC [+] {4}

00:09:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1994 @ 0.00050584 = 1.0086 BTC [+] {2}

00:15:25 mircea_popescu: !up ayn1k

00:16:40 adlai: ;;later tell copypaste fwiw, I'm fully in favor of segregated witness being implemented and available for those who see fit to use it. the main problem is one of education; users need to understand that there's bitcoin, and there's anyonecanspend-witcoin

00:16:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:17:21 *: adlai somehow doubts this alt will see more usage than pushcoin

00:17:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00050271 = 3.2173 BTC [-] {2}

00:18:10 mircea_popescu: the demand for bitcoin usage from poor people remains scant.

00:18:51 mircea_popescu: what they like it for - to save in, as per http://fraudsters.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-109.0-109.542 - is readily satisfied by trb as it is.

00:18:52 assbot: La Florida and other places on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1mOvRnf )

00:22:24 mircea_popescu: hahaha check thios dude out : "Some of you may be aware of a project called "therealbitcoin" and some of its development history. Over the last few days I forked the project, dropped in the woodcoin genesis block, genesis merkle root, the skein woodcutting algorithm, the logarithmic supply curve, the relevant difficulty adjust parameters, and the magic header code:"

00:22:27 mircea_popescu: http://frass.woodcoin.org/fo-realz-woodcoin/

00:22:28 assbot: fo-realz-woodcoin | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1QYCsIq )

00:22:55 mircea_popescu: "I stuck it on a github repo, which includes a tarball of the code with detached signature. You can also grab it as a vpatch with seal if you like. You might see some nodes reporting version 77777; that's what it will claim to be if you run it without modification."

00:24:31 adlai: mircea_popescu: this is because today, bitcoin is useless for poor people, and will remain so, without a reasonably reliable write-cache

00:24:44 mircea_popescu: not so. it is extremely useful : it allows them to save.

00:24:55 mircea_popescu: that is the only social function poor people actually need : a path out of poverty.

00:25:00 adlai: you must not have met any truly poor people, but that's to be expected i guess?

00:25:14 mircea_popescu: that bitcoin allows the poor a venue to actually accumulate capital is really all that matters, for the well being of the world generally.

00:25:38 *: adlai has friends who can't afford to save bitcoin, because they buy useless shit (incl drugs, and music, and fancy food, etc) instead of "paying themselves first"

00:25:50 mircea_popescu: adlai you're not belabouring under the misapprehension that i expect all to be saved, are you ? the point is not that. the point is for there to be a way for the scant few who don't belong there to save themselves.

00:26:20 thestringpuller: ^- this. so much this

00:26:24 mircea_popescu: the poor in all times and places belong on a conveyor belt towards a woodchipper. it is however very important to have a readily accessible door out of the tunnel, for any thinking folk who accidentally fell in.

00:26:28 *: adlai is belaboring under the apprehension that mircea_popescu may have never tried to personally convince somebody poor - incredibly so! - to hoard btc

00:26:40 mircea_popescu: i never convinced a woman to be my slave, either.

00:26:42 mircea_popescu: why would i ?

00:26:47 mircea_popescu: if it takes convincing her place's not here.

00:26:53 adlai: for their souls.

00:27:01 mircea_popescu: poor people have no souls.

00:27:32 mircea_popescu: incidentally, this seems a deeply ignored point, all sorts of okcupid chicks honestly expect they'll be entertained just because well... they exist. ridoinculous.

00:29:11 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: saw this on reddit and was surprised "Even 1000 euros feel too much to spent for a much needed new laptop instead of getting some BTC Am I mad?" to which someone replied "And this is why some economists fear Bitcoin -- as expenditures will become more sane. If that laptop made you much more productive, you would still choose to make that purchase rather than saving. But it seems you don't really need that new la

00:29:44 danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> adlai you're not belabouring under the misapprehension that i expect all to be saved << sounds like The Bible.

00:30:10 *: adlai wonders when btc lords last tried to thread needles!

00:30:18 davout: this whole chan sounds like the bible

00:30:44 thestringpuller: your nick is davout !

00:31:02 mircea_popescu: this is a very valid point. through the presence of an actual save mechanism, insane expenditure becomes less tenable. this is actually not unrelated to the discussion re how "the world" aka western cragmire ends. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2015#1325573

00:31:02 assbot: Logged on 17-11-2015 01:21:47; mircea_popescu: if you can buy bitcoin on credit in the us and ARE NOT buying bitcoin on credit in the us, you are being raped by all the people who do.

00:31:18 davout: thestringpuller: like the general!

00:31:29 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you're thinking "devout\"

00:31:56 adlai: seriously though, it's an edifying exercise to try and convince self-professed "btc people" that it's not worth their time to convince "non-self-professed btc people" (by my words, this time) to save via btc

00:32:18 *: adlai maintains that bitcoin can and should survive via increasing adoption among decreasing number of people

00:32:23 thestringpuller: adlai: as danielpbarron said you can't convince someone to be saved

00:32:30 adlai: anybody who can make useful use of btc - has heard of it already. today. 2016.,

00:32:34 davout: adlai: it's the same kind of stupidity you'll find in "oh, i'll give away some bitcoin for xmas"

00:32:44 adlai: the rest, as the new yorkers say, is theirstory.

00:33:11 danielpbarron: i went through that phase of telling everyone I see about bitcoin. It's pointless

00:33:22 adlai: thestringpuller: but therein lies the rub. everywhere you go, you'll meet the exception that proves this rule.

00:33:50 thestringpuller: adlai: but wouldn't this mean that person had it "within themselves" to be saved in the first place?

00:33:58 thestringpuller: if it wasn't you another missionary would have done the job.

00:34:07 mircea_popescu: adlai nobody's trying to convince anyone. i also don't go around watering holes in africa trying to convince the animals to drink./

00:34:11 danielpbarron: yes, God causes all things and there is no will outside of His

00:34:11 mircea_popescu: they'll drink in their own good time.

00:35:15 adlai: so? do i sit around lazy, waiting to instagram the next missionary's #btcConversionFail ?

00:35:16 mircea_popescu: <davout> adlai: it's the same kind of stupidity you'll find in "oh, i'll give away some bitcoin for xmas" << i maintain that my "give a little btc to eager young sluts" beats this "give a little more btc to people you know or are related to that don't want it" by a factor of infinity.

00:35:40 adlai: or try and help the poor idiots

00:35:42 davout: mircea_popescu: you're not giving it away

00:35:48 *: adlai is honestly troubled here :(

00:35:55 mircea_popescu: adlai if you can code, you can actually help the trb people. if you can't code, you can try an' help BingoBoingo, who's coinstantly asking. or else offend copypaste by rewriting fraudsters as best you can. or etc.

00:35:56 davout: in the sense "for nothing with the idea to infect others"

00:35:59 mircea_popescu: not like there isn't stuff to do.

00:36:17 mircea_popescu: davout really ? because why, i'm short tits and they have economic utility ?

00:36:19 danielpbarron: you can also help me in Eulora :D

00:36:27 mircea_popescu: i'm giving it away exactly like "free education" is given away.

00:36:36 danielpbarron: and i'm completely serious there's paying work in there c'mon already people get an account

00:36:41 mircea_popescu: yeah totally, you can run an eulora client, desperate need for more noobs there.

00:36:47 adlai: mircea_popescu: where's your vpatch? do i need to open a bbet which of us makes one first?

00:36:57 mircea_popescu: didn't i make the genesis ?!

00:37:11 adlai: your mom genesised, you just talked from there

00:37:26 adlai: quoting = talking

00:37:43 mircea_popescu: no dude, the v patch genesis.

00:37:47 adlai: k

00:37:59 mircea_popescu: it's signed by people including me!

00:38:03 adlai: danielpbarron: how much does it pay in btc?

00:38:16 davout: there's a difference between giving something to someone who wants it, and giving something to someone who doesn't

00:38:16 *: adlai has other btc-denominated offers, starting tomorr,w ish?

00:38:33 mircea_popescu: this sliding scale business. what to x oh nevermind.

00:38:38 mircea_popescu: people suck at market.

00:39:01 danielpbarron: i can pay like 3 million for a night's work (that means you leave it crafting overnight)

00:39:36 adlai: are there open-source bots which i can read like you pretend to read the bible, and rape like mircea_popescu pretends to rape his slaves?

00:39:42 thestringpuller: nice. Eulora labor camps begin!

00:39:55 adlai: it's not a camp if the campers don't Exist

00:40:01 mircea_popescu: i think i'ma just use adlai to denote lazy from now on.

00:40:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4521 @ 0.00050271 = 2.2728 BTC [-]

00:40:13 adlai: mircea_popescu: i'll allow it.

00:40:31 trinque: !s tlp rape

00:40:32 assbot: 2 results for 'tlp rape' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tlp+rape

00:40:37 danielpbarron: adlai, are you saying I don't read the Bible?

00:40:42 mircea_popescu: now break out of this queergender feminized state where you imagine anyone cares to seduce you and go do some work.

00:40:58 adlai: no, i'm saying that i don't really reed anything, i just type and rant and occasionally change parameters

00:41:06 adlai: !down adlai

00:41:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42471 @ 0.00050364 = 21.3901 BTC [+] {3}

00:41:08 mircea_popescu: no. he's saying that he's not getting enough attention at home.

00:41:36 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i thought that's a problem for children not adults.

00:42:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00049905 = 14.4475 BTC [-]

00:42:15 mircea_popescu: well... it's a problem of people, it appears. you are born with a tank, and until it gets filled you're stuck working on filling it. normally it's full by about 12yo in males, but abnormally...

00:42:47 thestringpuller: what about for females?

00:43:27 mircea_popescu: it's not clear, but it may be the case that the mechanism is coopted in their sexual activity and becomes part of what drives child rearing. so they got a deliberate leak and it never fills.

00:43:49 mircea_popescu: in this sense the whole thing would be reminescent of how nipples work.

00:46:53 thestringpuller: is there a thread on "generational WoT", when we are all old and gray who takes up the helm?

00:47:44 mircea_popescu: you kidding me, these doods be multiplyin' like rabbits. i think there's more b-a kids than there's b-a adults.

00:48:22 mircea_popescu: davout has two, mike has two, pete has iirc also two ? kakobrekla has like 6 or 7 or some high amount like that...

00:48:33 mats: O_O

00:48:47 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes was working on more, iirc mod6 has two too...

00:49:13 ben_vulpes: servility and submission go hand in hand, and are very important attributes for performing wifedom and motherhood well.

00:49:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34663 @ 0.00049983 = 17.3256 BTC [+] {5}

00:49:36 thestringpuller: i love it. cryptofeudalism.

00:49:50 mircea_popescu: for the first few years at any rate.

00:50:02 ben_vulpes: and what takes over after that?

00:50:26 mircea_popescu: you'll scream yourself hoarse setting limits. with any luck.

00:50:26 danielpbarron: regression to the mean

00:51:35 kakobrekla: wait what?

00:51:46 mircea_popescu: more dominant mother doesn't necessarily make worse mother (excepting for crazy outliers known in literature as schizogenic). it's true she has a tougher time for the first few years, but then once there's teenagers in the house... you'll love every cannon you got.

00:52:36 kakobrekla: #b-a are my kids

00:53:24 mircea_popescu: :)

00:57:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00050207 = 1.7572 BTC [+] {2}

01:03:49 mircea_popescu: "December 19 2014 : DBD parameters set by Shane Kinney" ahaha cool.

01:05:04 ben_vulpes: has anyone ever seen something along the lines of "Need an operator in 'STATIC' (makefile.unix:12)"

01:05:16 ben_vulpes: while compiling trb either on various linux or an openbsd?

01:07:53 asciilifeform: achtung, panzerz!!

01:08:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:

01:08:01 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000191.html

01:08:02 assbot: [BTC-dev] Malleus Mikehearnificarum. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K7GR40 )

01:08:12 asciilifeform: ^ currently in live fire on zoolag and dulap

01:08:18 asciilifeform: as of 5 min. ago.

01:08:34 ben_vulpes: ooo

01:09:02 asciilifeform: i wanted to do this ages ago, mircea_popescu finally prodded me.

01:11:51 asciilifeform: already plenty of vermin crushed

01:12:02 trinque: neat

01:12:05 asciilifeform: aaaah this is beautiful

01:13:28 ben_vulpes: nm patched wrong thinger.

01:13:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what didja think it were ?

01:13:55 asciilifeform: or is this re: earlier thread

01:14:00 ben_vulpes: my own thread.

01:14:04 asciilifeform: ah

01:15:03 ben_vulpes: rather nifty, asciilifeform.

01:15:11 asciilifeform: remains to be seen

01:15:20 asciilifeform: traffic's gone through the floor.

01:15:37 ben_vulpes: i can't actually remember how 'misbehaving' works

01:15:48 asciilifeform: drops conn

01:16:19 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0558

01:16:20 assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1JEciIm )

01:16:22 ben_vulpes: above a threshold? or for any value in that call?

01:16:39 asciilifeform: configurable, default==100

01:16:51 asciilifeform: read ze code.

01:16:53 ben_vulpes: cool, thank you.

01:17:01 ben_vulpes: yes, have reread.

01:17:26 *: ben_vulpes operating under severe cognitive load

01:17:37 asciilifeform: whatcha doing, ben_vulpes ?

01:17:46 ben_vulpes: does this happen to anyone else? get sick, brain more or less stops working?

01:17:56 asciilifeform: me.

01:18:02 asciilifeform: for mebbe past year.

01:18:13 ben_vulpes: i installed a /thirty-two/ bit operating system over the past weekend. on a 64-bit box.

01:18:20 trinque: d'oh

01:18:23 ben_vulpes: only figured this out when i went to compile trb and got assembly errors.

01:18:29 trinque: yeah, I'm useless when sick for sufficient value of $sick

01:18:45 ben_vulpes: i was hallucinating gdb-many-buffers-mode last night

01:18:51 ben_vulpes: not pleasant

01:26:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00049472 = 11.527 BTC [-] {5}

01:30:20 mircea_popescu: actually you should be able to run 32 bit on a 64 bit box, neh ?

01:30:25 mircea_popescu: or did you make the os 32 and trb 64 ?

01:30:52 asciilifeform: he said 'installed 32bit os'

01:31:37 mircea_popescu: yes ?

01:31:56 ben_vulpes: nearly all of the tooling on the ml and scattered throughout the logs assumes 64-bit compilation environments.

01:32:19 mircea_popescu: guess so huh.

01:32:34 ben_vulpes: i definitely didn't find any that didn't.

01:32:36 asciilifeform: actually rotor doesn't give a damn what you build on, so long as it is specified

01:32:38 asciilifeform: ditto target

01:32:44 mircea_popescu: i recall hav ing a 32 bit trb made to work at some point, but not the specifics

01:32:49 asciilifeform: build on nintendo, deploy on cray

01:32:52 asciilifeform: or vice-versa.

01:33:40 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf i'm still getting segfaults with your openbsd patch. care to look at bitcoind.core ?

01:33:40 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:35:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00049781 = 16.1042 BTC [+] {5}

01:35:20 thestringpuller: is linux no longer sane computing environment? when did this become an asylum >> same environment running on different machines has wildly different behavior

01:35:47 ben_vulpes: interestingly enough the output from static_bitcoin_only.sh stops at "warning: warning: sprintf() is often misused, please use snprintf()" but then never runs the subsequent 'strip bitcoind' line in static_bitcoin_only.sh

01:35:59 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there is such a thing as cpu arch. gotta build for the hardware you have.

01:36:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wai wut?! where is there sprintf

01:37:00 ben_vulpes: is ben_vulpes perhaps using a stale tree?!

01:37:02 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i meant in building up process/configuration. behaving like two different robots completely, rather than robot with different body running same brain

01:37:10 ben_vulpes: i believe that this tree came from a v pressing.

01:37:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where in the code

01:37:37 ben_vulpes: src/uint256.h:289

01:37:56 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_filestring=&_string=sprintf << hm

01:37:57 assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option general search: sprintf ... ( http://bit.ly/1kYOOlr )

01:41:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365773 << pogo is a 32-bit arm-v

01:41:09 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 01:32:44; mircea_popescu: i recall hav ing a 32 bit trb made to work at some point, but not the specifics

01:41:25 ben_vulpes: i still don't see how that error would cause the script to not run strip bitcoind

01:42:02 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: doesn't happen here

01:42:08 asciilifeform: possibly your gcc flags differ ?

01:42:23 ben_vulpes: !up adlai

01:42:36 *: adlai still doesn't understand why we're encouraging hardware uniformity

01:42:46 asciilifeform: adlai: which 'we'

01:42:57 asciilifeform: i wrote 'rotor', which lets you build for nintendo if you like.

01:42:59 adlai: !s pogo

01:43:00 assbot: 880 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo

01:43:05 adlai: we ^

01:43:26 asciilifeform: adlai: find me another comp with GB ethernet and SATA that can be bought for under $20.

01:43:28 asciilifeform: with power brick.

01:43:31 adlai: call it a nintendo! call it a crescendo! stop telling people what to run/buy

01:43:46 adlai: let them spend a little more. let them scam an ISP off a half-decent-shitware-router. idc.

01:43:53 adlai: let's not all run the same brick.

01:44:02 asciilifeform: adlai: actually nobody is running pogo today

01:44:08 adlai: ++

01:44:12 asciilifeform: at all.

01:44:23 asciilifeform: we never met the 128M target.

01:44:25 *: adlai just doesn't like monoculture, that's all.

01:44:31 thestringpuller: does pogo stay synched or does it lag behind?

01:44:37 asciilifeform: right now it's an x86 monoculture.

01:44:40 asciilifeform: which isn't any better.

01:44:41 adlai: oh we should strive to meet it, there's no reason not to. utxo-in-memory is retardation, nothing more to it.

01:45:06 asciilifeform: adlai: if you keep up with the ml - you will know that block index alone is >150M on warmup

01:45:20 asciilifeform: before a single tx lands in the pool

01:45:29 adlai: you don't need much of an index if you trust your own bloom filtration

01:45:39 asciilifeform: wai wut?!!

01:46:19 trinque: adlai just doesn't like monoculture, that's all. << it's not "monoculture"; it's mass production

01:46:30 trinque: propose a better way to get a large number of trb nodes in the wild

01:46:33 asciilifeform: adlai: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0030

01:46:35 assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1kYPR4M )

01:46:41 adlai: it's not mass production if some nonwot-shitshop craps them out by the chinafull

01:47:22 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm just using static_bitcoin_only.sh, where would i look for misconfigured gcc flags?

01:47:33 adlai: asciilifeform: do you know what a bloom filter is? you can set it arbitrarily paranoid... ie, more paranoid than ripemd160, which you're forced to use, because.. satoshi!

01:48:01 asciilifeform: adlai: not only do we not use hearn's bloom filter, but an hour ago i have banned anyone showing symptoms of doing so from connecting to my nodes.

01:48:09 adlai: k

01:48:18 *: adlai will have to implement his own, so it runs on his 'pogo'

01:48:41 asciilifeform: adlai can run whatever he likes ?

01:49:03 adlai: exactly

01:49:13 *: adlai must only write it... !down etc

01:50:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365805 << incidentally, i surveyed all known routers on the market. all have severe ram constraint (very few better than pogo, costliest have perhaps 512m) and no sata, ever

01:50:49 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 01:43:46; adlai: let them spend a little more. let them scam an ISP off a half-decent-shitware-router. idc.

01:55:04 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what does "Illegal Instruction" mean?

01:55:08 thestringpuller: it is my only clue here...

01:55:57 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://wiki.osdev.org/Exceptions#Invalid_Opcode

01:55:58 assbot: Exceptions - OSDev Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvsMp6 )

01:56:26 adlai: fwiw utxo set size grows indefinitely, whatever the block size. someday it grows larger than the largest affordable RAM, even for mircea_popescus

01:56:32 asciilifeform: generally you will see this in trb if you built for $machine but you have $othermachine.

01:56:43 *: adlai always had a thing for premature optimisation

01:57:03 trinque: why would the utxo set always have to live in ram?

01:57:26 adlai: it doesn't!but for fast yet-spam-resistent block verification, you need fast utxo invalidhation

01:57:41 adlai: fast utxo invalidation is also achievable via wotification-of-everything

01:57:52 adlai: but do we really want to go full wottard?

01:57:54 asciilifeform: adlai: the latter is the only reasonable thing

01:58:03 adlai: but... do we really want to go full wottard?

01:58:10 asciilifeform: the 'general public' deserves ONE THING: to die in the sewers.

01:58:26 asciilifeform: if you want something - BE SOMEBODY.

01:58:30 adlai: meafar banu, leafar nakzor.

01:59:12 adlai: (this is more of an efficiency question than ethics... as i said - premature optimization)

01:59:30 asciilifeform: adlai: translation?

01:59:53 adlai: "any WoT can grow large enough to accomodate two people who wish to slit each others' throats"

02:00:14 adlai: oops, i meant - "from ashes we came, to dust we'll returnz"

02:00:20 asciilifeform: l0l

02:01:06 asciilifeform: hashes to hashes, dust to dust

02:01:18 adlai: !b 7

02:01:20 assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/17QWX4T.txt )

02:01:27 adlai: !down adlai

02:03:01 mircea_popescu: sciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365773 << pogo is a 32-bit arm-v << yeah that's the why. but it ran on a desktop.

02:03:01 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 01:32:44; mircea_popescu: i recall hav ing a 32 bit trb made to work at some point, but not the specifics

02:03:21 asciilifeform: i had a 32-bit build on (unreleased) 'rotolinux'

02:03:24 asciilifeform: (iso that booted to trb)

02:03:44 asciilifeform: it is trivial to make.

02:03:48 asciilifeform: (and of questionable use)

02:04:09 mircea_popescu: was training exercise.

02:05:37 mats: pogo is mega expensive now, just about one year following project inception

02:06:29 mircea_popescu: <adlai> fwiw utxo set size grows indefinitely, whatever the block size. someday it grows larger than the largest affordable RAM, even for mircea_popescus <<< this was discussed here a number of times, actually.

02:06:29 asciilifeform: mats: http://www.amazon.com/Pogoplug-Private-Solution-Licenses-POGO-V4-A4-01/dp/B00776V3DI << $2 more

02:06:31 assbot: Amazon.com: Pogoplug Office Secure Private Cloud Solution with 5 User Licenses (POGO-V4-A4-01): Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvtP8w )

02:07:46 mircea_popescu: sooo... it pleases me to announce that private testing shows alf's patch not only removes 80% of bullshit "nodes" trying to connect, but it also improves network thoroughput by a factor of about 700

02:08:28 mats: asciilifeform: oh, didn't spot that in a search for 'pogoplug series 4'

02:08:33 mircea_popescu: i would strongly advise anyone using trb in production to at least test this patch.

02:08:52 *: asciilifeform just tested and got ~15 second tx propagation.

02:09:02 mats: asciilifeform: in fact, that doesn't look like a series 4

02:09:27 mats: (which iirc is the one with sata dock)

02:09:46 asciilifeform: mats: says 4

02:09:55 mircea_popescu: adlai> but do we really want to go full wottard? << stop with the "we", and yes we do.

02:09:56 asciilifeform: and the colour logo is not in the pic

02:11:32 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: trb compilation detects machine architecture when building right? so build on machine run on same machine. or do I have to configure some flag for the machine I'm compiling + running on?

02:11:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00050082 = 13.7726 BTC [+] {2}

02:11:46 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: absolutely not

02:11:50 asciilifeform: does not detect anything

02:11:55 asciilifeform: you gotta set it up!!

02:12:11 mircea_popescu: mats> pogo is mega expensive now, just about one year following project inception << fortunately we have a bunch stashed.

02:12:17 mircea_popescu: how much does it cost ?

02:12:27 mircea_popescu: ah n,

02:12:30 mircea_popescu: nm*

02:13:57 asciilifeform: and apparently mats is correct, http://blog.qnology.com/p/difference-between-pogoplug-mobile-and.html

02:13:58 assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Difference between Pogoplug Mobile and Pogoplug Series 4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1kYTd7T )

02:14:37 asciilifeform: the pogos i bought for conf-3 were POGO-V4-A3-01

02:14:58 asciilifeform: the amazon link earlier is a POGO-V4-A4-01.

02:15:18 asciilifeform: the classical pogo (with sata) is now a full $10 more.

02:15:33 mircea_popescu: i guess we made some money on carried stock.

02:19:35 BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> yea prb won't relay high-S due to bip-62 << Wasn't even a BIP, was a point update trivia

02:19:49 *: asciilifeform off to pet pet

02:22:14 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> this is how various novel antibacterials are 'designed'. << Designed by putting candidates in agar with potential targets and seeing if werx

02:23:23 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - BTC price to rise above PM price of 1oz of gold before Oct 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1235/btc-price-to-rise-above-pm-price-of/#b13

02:23:23 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b63

02:23:24 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1232/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jul-2016/#b15

02:23:24 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1233/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jul-2016/#b25

02:23:25 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $1,000 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1234/bitcoin-to-top-1-000-before-jul-2016/#b28

02:26:07 mircea_popescu: clearly bitbet lost a lot of confidence over the bitcoin-sucks debacle

02:26:17 *: mircea_popescu wonders if all these people were waiting on winnings to make more bets.

02:28:01 mats: degenerates

02:31:04 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365659 << I tried this February 2013 at around $20/Bitcoin with a few IRL contacts. Most gambled everything to nothing, the other one lost theirs to a pnoHe blockchain.info wallet.

02:31:04 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 00:35:16; mircea_popescu: <davout> adlai: it's the same kind of stupidity you'll find in "oh, i'll give away some bitcoin for xmas" << i maintain that my "give a little btc to eager young sluts" beats this "give a little more btc to people you know or are related to that don't want it" by a factor of infinity.

02:32:56 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

02:33:06 gribble: Current Blocks: 392749 | Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 | Next Difficulty In: 370 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

02:38:22 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> already plenty of vermin crushed << Sweet

02:39:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00050631 = 10.7338 BTC [+] {2}

02:39:36 BingoBoingo: PLS STAHP THE PM'S until I catch up on lawgs

02:50:28 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Wasn't even a BIP, was a point update trivia << makes me wonder if there are nodes out there that malleate/fellate txs from high-s to low-s and rebroadcast

02:52:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26119 @ 0.00049836 = 13.0167 BTC [-] {3}

02:56:50 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ currently in live fire on zoolag and dulap << Applied to my bastardized testbed

03:01:56 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hashes to hashes, dust to dust << Gotta keep the dust under control though. Fans and everything.

03:05:15 BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu wonders if all these people were waiting on winnings to make more bets. << Likely

03:05:53 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: YES THERE ARE, ADVERTISED EVEN, NO WONDERING REQUIRED!

03:10:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8040 @ 0.0005016 = 4.0329 BTC [+] {4}

03:11:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7535 @ 0.00049781 = 3.751 BTC [-]

03:11:41 BingoBoingo: It's even been pointed out here before. After the "mysterious" amaclin fellow malleated transactions to high-s the power rangers started operating some nodes that automalleated everything passing through to low-s

03:13:32 BingoBoingo: Even without that it is clear from the BitBet payout problem that people are running nodes that malleate to low-s

03:14:23 BingoBoingo: There's no need to wonder about things actually being seen on the network.

03:15:50 ben_vulpes: 'linker file input unused because linking not done' << anyone ever see this while compiling trb on open bsd?

03:16:08 ben_vulpes: using scripts from stator ml post.

03:17:09 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: nice find >> https://twitter.com/Disruptepreneur/status/686358988523319296 I wonder how it will play out.

03:20:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00050112 = 7.3164 BTC [+] {2}

03:21:25 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Which GCC are you using?

03:22:37 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: 4.2.1

03:22:50 BingoBoingo: Is that the right version?

03:23:26 ben_vulpes: i don't even know what the right version *would* be, beyond "not apple's"

03:23:29 *: BingoBoingo doesn't remember details of the setup he uses to compile bastard client, should prolly work on that after getting some newsing done

03:23:45 ben_vulpes: BaStarD client?

03:24:29 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The one where I apply alf patches to 0.7.2 after finding locations and they usually work

03:24:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00050112 = 12.4278 BTC [+]

03:25:14 *: BingoBoingo was drunk for most of the chopping so most details are lost to history

03:25:31 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: afaik nobody's done a proper crapple (clang) build as of yet

03:25:47 asciilifeform: (and it is not clear why this'd be a useful thing)

03:26:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that is not what i'm working on.

03:26:11 ben_vulpes: and didn't fluffypony?

03:26:12 asciilifeform: fwiw i have full bore civilized gcc toolchain on my salt mine mbp.

03:26:26 asciilifeform: with gdb, etc.

03:26:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc he used actual gcc

03:28:51 ben_vulpes: anyways, this is all a bloody mystery to me. i've never seen a sh script crap out midway through and not run its remaining bits, but thats what stator seems to do over here.

03:29:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365915 << remind me again why you have a sideshow thing and not trb

03:29:10 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 02:56:50; BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ currently in live fire on zoolag and dulap << Applied to my bastardized testbed

03:29:44 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what kind of box is 'over here' ?

03:29:59 ben_vulpes: old macbook pro running openbsd 5.8

03:30:04 asciilifeform: ah hm

03:30:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have a linux trb, but I keep sideshow because inertia and curiosity.

03:30:17 ben_vulpes: totally vanilla install from bsd.rb

03:30:28 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have an openbsd box here but it will not build trb, not enough ram (+swap even)

03:30:34 asciilifeform: so i cannot replicate.

03:30:41 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does it build /boost/?

03:30:44 asciilifeform: nope

03:30:50 ben_vulpes: hm.

03:31:03 asciilifeform: it's a toshiba libretto 100ct.

03:32:28 asciilifeform: iirc when i did netbsd i built for linux and used the compat layer.

03:32:35 asciilifeform: this is prolly the reasonable thing to do.

03:33:04 asciilifeform: esp. now that it ACTUALLY WORKS because no more idiot glibc crud

03:33:17 ben_vulpes: trb compiled just dandily on the ubuntu i had on the box previously

03:33:44 ben_vulpes: machine in question has 4G of ram, should be 'all anyone ever needed'

03:33:47 asciilifeform: my experience with openbsd for daily life has not been very satisfying

03:34:00 asciilifeform: the build system is thoroughly infested with crud

03:34:08 asciilifeform: e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus

03:34:16 asciilifeform: EVEN ON GENTOO i do not suffer this

03:34:17 asciilifeform: fuck it

03:34:37 asciilifeform: full depoetteringization with ONE MOTHERFUCKING CONFIG LINE or go home.

03:35:14 asciilifeform: i do not understand why openbsd is revered today

03:35:27 asciilifeform: the founder is willfully blind and surrounded by usg monkeys

03:35:34 asciilifeform: who 'speak for him' and insult mircea_popescu on his behalf

03:35:53 asciilifeform: and they have done their work on the miserable os, and it shows

03:36:25 ben_vulpes: if it continues to fail to compile trb i may embark on gentoo quest instead.

03:36:57 asciilifeform: and theo boils his belt and accordion while 'aggressive queergendered' eat caviar in 'hackathons'

03:37:04 trinque: there was an effort to shit portage onto openbsd

03:37:23 asciilifeform: trinque: there was also an effort to stitch monkey and dog together

03:37:24 trinque: stalled.

03:37:25 asciilifeform: in the middle ages.

03:37:32 trinque: hardly an apt comparison.

03:37:47 asciilifeform: very apt, in that neither came to anything or is ever likely to.

03:38:25 BingoBoingo: !b 4

03:38:26 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1AH6BWE.txt )

03:39:11 trinque: heh

03:39:20 asciilifeform: hm, does anybody even update bashlog any moar.

03:40:25 *: adlai recalls something about calls for moderation

03:40:39 trinque: davout was conscripted

03:40:56 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365969 << possibly the same psychological process that makes people proud of impenetrable shell scripts for munging text

03:40:56 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:35:14; asciilifeform: i do not understand why openbsd is revered today

03:41:03 kakobrekla: anyone else wanna be bash mod?

03:41:20 trinque: ben_vulpes: ahem. Makefile.

03:41:43 ben_vulpes: heh.

03:41:56 adlai: kakobrekla: what are the qualifications? L4? ability to verify deeds? these things have to be selective, to keep out idiots...

03:42:11 ben_vulpes: i'm curious to see if your makefile works on this (apprently) insane device, trinque.

03:42:17 trinque: I don't buy it

03:42:40 trinque: the *whole world* is made of shit

03:42:46 trinque: I'm quite liking the texture of this turd atm

03:43:07 ben_vulpes: don't you dare grow proud of tools that you made to wrap your hands around the shitworld's throat trinque. it's not a symbolics machine!

03:43:44 kakobrekla: adlai i dunno, not being an idiot goes a long way.

03:44:26 adlai: the problem, as our mopheaded joo 'discovered', is that even human stupidity is relative

03:45:34 adlai: ;;later tell mike_c candle charts lacking a couple weeks of recency

03:45:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:45:46 kakobrekla: theres also absolute stupidity, no?

03:46:00 adlai: how do you measure it?

03:46:10 adlai: if it's absolute, you should be able to build a stupidometer

03:46:21 adlai: composed of nothing but lead and plutonium

03:46:53 adlai: maybe a smattering of !down syndrome, but that makes in non-absoloot

03:47:50 adlai: who runs mpex.re btw? it's consistently returning empty html tables :(

03:48:02 adlai: ah there we go.

03:48:29 *: adlai swears he tried enough times to justify the spam... goodnight now, may tomorrow be soberer and less smeared with shit

03:48:39 kakobrekla: im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability

03:49:34 asciilifeform: ;;seen mike_c

03:49:35 gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already

03:49:47 adlai: !s seen mike_c

03:49:48 assbot: 103 results for 'seen mike_c' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=seen+mike_c

03:50:02 asciilifeform: anybody have a finger on him in meatspace ?

03:50:06 asciilifeform: mod6 ?

03:50:17 adlai: dude vaporized from the face of the logs, although apparently still receives ;;later tells

03:50:35 kakobrekla: how would you know that?

03:50:44 adlai: action and reaction

03:50:44 mod6: asciilifeform: naw, i dont

03:50:48 ben_vulpes: speed at which he brought btcalpha back up?

03:51:01 ben_vulpes: one could...email the man.

03:51:02 kakobrekla: this doesnt mean he actually read it.

03:51:11 *: ben_vulpes shrugs

03:51:20 ben_vulpes: re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing.

03:51:27 adlai: the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either

03:51:35 trinque: ben_vulpes: that thing gets to be called a desktop environment at best

03:51:36 adlai: lol!

03:51:45 adlai: ben_vulpes: have you followed "cl os" thread much?

03:51:48 kakobrekla: most of the time when assbots drops down i get yelled at but i almost never actually do something about it to bring it back, yet here it is.

03:51:55 adlai: in the wider-than-ba sense of 'thread'

03:52:14 adlai: even loper died

03:52:30 *: adlai takes off hat << ami doin it rite?

03:52:44 adlai: !down adlai

03:52:46 asciilifeform: adlai: dies properly when i'm dead

03:53:06 asciilifeform: until then, we zombie along, throwing maggotrous pieces at people

03:53:33 ben_vulpes: trinque: sure.

03:53:34 trinque: I just huddle inside emacs talking to myself

03:54:04 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai not particularly.

03:54:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:54:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366025 << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem

03:54:29 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:20; ben_vulpes: re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing.

03:54:33 ben_vulpes: emacs is a good example of tools with which to throttle complexity, aka intelligence augmentation

03:54:37 asciilifeform: that is quite certainly rotten to all hell

03:56:42 ben_vulpes: tangentially related, i ran across 'sorcerer' the other day. funny little corner of linux, that.

03:57:51 asciilifeform: was sorta like a micro-gentoo

03:57:57 ben_vulpes: lol "the popularity of a tool is proportionate to the amount of time it makes its users waste"

03:58:10 asciilifeform: but, iirc, didn't have USE flags and other niceties

03:59:11 asciilifeform: http://sorcerer.highsphere.net << loads but links dead

03:59:12 assbot: Sorcerer Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1mPoWcU )

03:59:15 asciilifeform: sad.

03:59:25 ben_vulpes: deathcomesforusall

03:59:57 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'

04:03:27 ben_vulpes: the odd unlucky derp attains immortality?

04:05:22 trinque: !up gabriel_laddel

04:11:53 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.82797180 BTC on 'No' - S&P 500 to close above 2000 on December 30th - http://bitbet.us/bet/1238/s-p-500-to-close-above-2000-on-december/#b4

04:13:56 BingoBoingo: connection from 186.137.7.31:54829 dropped (banned) << Win

04:14:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9050 @ 0.00050409 = 4.562 BTC [+]

04:15:37 BingoBoingo: ERROR: BANNED peer issuing heathen command. << Bigger win. Debug.log is fun.

04:16:07 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: "no, no dedicated sales people yet. why do you ask?" < Curiosity.

04:16:18 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Spiffy keyboard.

04:20:26 trinque: asciilifeform: for my curiosity, if the tubes have mouths, could your patch be used by $enemy to alter the topology of the network in ways beneficial to it?

04:21:48 trinque: hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands.

04:47:19 asciilifeform: trinque: i did say this to mircea_popescu.

04:47:41 asciilifeform: trinque: plaintext node-node link is a doomed thing.

04:50:58 BingoBoingo: !up raedah

05:04:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.0005039 = 9.0198 BTC [-] {3}

05:12:12 phf: ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd.

05:13:29 phf: the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction

05:16:39 deedbot-: [Qntra] Reference Client Patch Bans Bloom Filter Parasites - http://qntra.net/2016/01/reference-client-patch-bans-bloom-filter-parasites/

05:17:19 phf: (trying to debug via serial cable on a pentium 233 is it's own kind of fun....)

05:17:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21650 @ 0.00049831 = 10.7884 BTC [-] {3}

05:17:44 BingoBoingo: ^ No promise IP in article was IP actually seen in debug.log

05:32:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21542 @ 0.00050644 = 10.9097 BTC [+] {2}

05:37:48 ben_vulpes: programmers and their bonzai trees of complexity

05:38:27 ben_vulpes: nightmare hybrid zen rock combing garden and jenga

05:41:07 mats: i can't visualize this

05:42:13 BingoBoingo: mats: Imagine the rocks are wet and the rake is sodium

05:42:21 ben_vulpes: in freefall

05:43:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35104 @ 0.00049865 = 17.5046 BTC [-]

05:44:39 mats: but where is the jenga

05:45:29 ben_vulpes: aha it's backwards jenga

05:45:38 ben_vulpes: you add new bits and try to not knock the whole thing over

05:45:56 mats: one can't just smash japanesu words together with jenga and expect this to be comprehensible

05:45:58 ben_vulpes: all the while gently raking the rocks and snipping ornamentally at the leaves

05:46:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4468 @ 0.00049865 = 2.228 BTC [-]

05:56:48 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

05:56:51 gribble: Current Blocks: 392774 | Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 | Next Difficulty In: 345 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 0 hours, 25 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

06:06:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00050645 = 5.6976 BTC [+]

06:14:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00050645 = 2.6842 BTC [+]

06:19:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69350 @ 0.00050571 = 35.071 BTC [-]

06:22:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00049992 = 13.0479 BTC [-] {4}

06:34:49 copypaste: mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with internet.bs - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was 8chan.co

06:36:31 BingoBoingo: copypaste: I suspect the reason you dislike pete_dushenski aping fraudsters is he comes from boring Canada and his cool factor and empire potential are limited by that.

06:36:49 copypaste: i would further like to let you know that internet.bs has been sold since you and i registered our domains there, of course without notice to us

06:37:06 copypaste: (if in fact you registered fraudsters.com on the creation day of 2009-06-07)

06:37:30 copypaste: https://www.centralnic.com/company/news/2014/centralnic-buys-domain-name-registrar-internet-bs-ibs

06:37:30 assbot: CentralNic buys domain name registrar Internet.bs (IBS) | Press from 2014 | Press | About | CentralNic ... ( http://bit.ly/1RF4szm )

06:39:23 BingoBoingo: copypaste: He changed registrars from namecheap when they went derpy web 2.goatse

06:39:49 copypaste: internet.bs changed my nameservers to IBS controlled nameservers which served their own ads and intercepted all cookies to the 8chan.co domain

06:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24343 @ 0.00050648 = 12.3292 BTC [+] {4}

06:40:37 copypaste: well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works http://www.kimmoa.se/The_rotten_and_corrupt_Domain_Name_System/

06:40:38 assbot: The rotten and corrupt Domain Name System (DNS; EuroDNS = thieves) - KimmoA.se ... ( http://bit.ly/1RF4Nlu )

06:40:56 BingoBoingo: DNS works as NSA spyware

06:41:07 copypaste: people who own domains are absolutely at the mercy of the registering company, because the registering company IS the actual owner according to ICANN

06:41:14 BingoBoingo: Yes

06:41:15 copypaste: and ICANN is a corrupt organization because it's USG affiliated

06:41:45 BingoBoingo: And Glibc DNS functions force dynamic linking which is why excised from trb

06:41:59 copypaste: i really hope fraudsters.com will stay online and they won't steal it, but based on my interactions with internet.bs i'm worried

06:42:12 copypaste: i recommend you retain an attorney in the bahamas like i did

06:43:03 BingoBoingo: win https://twitter.com/guruvan/status/686432614018891776

06:43:26 copypaste: BingoBoingo: we all know that the best DNS system is a GPG based one. private key trumps all nebulous ideas of "ownership" and "terms of service".

06:43:37 BingoBoingo: "@qntra we always recommend running your own nodes for security. To run with "altruism" as one's security plan is nothing but a fool's errand"

06:44:16 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell guruvan thank you for stepping up on this issue

06:44:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:44:39 mats: whats this gpg based dns system

06:45:09 copypaste: it doesn't exist but in my own head

06:45:14 BingoBoingo: gossipd

06:45:17 copypaste: but, it would be the best system ever made.

06:45:21 copypaste: (for DNS _)

06:46:35 BingoBoingo: namecoin could have not sucked, but too late for that

06:47:07 copypaste: indeed. the problem with DNS is how entrenched it is.

06:47:47 copypaste: honestly after this happened to me i went into a deep depression that took months to recover from; all of my perceptions of the internet were shattered. and as an aside that's why i no longer own 8chan

06:48:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16786 @ 0.00050688 = 8.5085 BTC [+] {3}

06:49:09 BingoBoingo: Muh feels

06:49:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7705 @ 0.00050729 = 3.9087 BTC [+]

06:51:26 ben_vulpes: copypaste: were you the guy running mp's ads?

06:51:30 BingoBoingo: But yeah, my perceptions of the internet continually break and have to recompile

06:51:43 copypaste: yes i was ben_vulpes, for the month that they were paid for

06:52:12 copypaste: renegotiation of that contract would have to be with ads@8ch.net <Jim Watkins>, not me

06:52:54 copypaste: it's probably not worth it though, 8chan is moribund

06:54:54 ben_vulpes: eyeballs are fickle.

06:55:44 copypaste: it has a chance of bouncing back, in the same way that gavin's career has a chance of bouncing back

06:55:55 copypaste: it could happen sure; will it? it's not likely

06:57:21 copypaste: BingoBoingo: now i never make assumptions about ownership. quite the opposite. if it's not backed by a private key i just assume i don't own it, less disappointment that way.

06:57:37 BingoBoingo: ic

06:59:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90300 @ 0.00050662 = 45.7478 BTC [-] {8}

07:00:54 BingoBoingo: K, qntra's slow seems to have a touch of the DDoS. Going to sleep. Anyone who wants to write about Intel's Skylake already having a rowhammer exploit coded for its DDR4 controler feel free to sumbit a piece.

07:31:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00050899 = 6.9732 BTC [+] {2}

07:57:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00051112 = 1.7889 BTC [+]

08:40:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00050313 = 2.1886 BTC [-] {2}

08:45:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00050757 = 7.6136 BTC [+] {3}

08:46:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29836 @ 0.00050312 = 15.0111 BTC [-] {3}

08:52:54 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - http://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#b8

08:54:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24088 @ 0.0005144 = 12.3909 BTC [+] {3}

09:15:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00050099 = 15.4305 BTC [-]

09:26:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18781 @ 0.0005168 = 9.706 BTC [+] {4}

09:35:15 punkman: http://www.spamhaus.org/news/article/726/

09:35:16 assbot: Verizon Routing Millions of IP Addresses for Cybercrime Gangs ... ( http://bit.ly/1JEMJXr )

10:02:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.00051705 = 4.214 BTC [+]

10:09:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00051282 = 13.3333 BTC [-] {4}

10:24:24 punkman: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a4a9a650-b807-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164.html

10:24:25 assbot: Shenzhen closes down 6.6% as China market rout continues - FT.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1SJ9w6B )

10:26:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00051023 = 2.5001 BTC [-] {2}

10:45:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00051023 = 4.2094 BTC [-]

10:58:59 punkman: !up nikthebookie

11:01:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32968 @ 0.00051617 = 17.0171 BTC [+] {5}

11:02:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20082 @ 0.00051713 = 10.385 BTC [+]

11:06:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00051724 = 20.793 BTC [+] {2}

11:14:35 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364575 depends which yurp. the slovakistan healthcare deteriorates so quickly that all pregnant women i know did at least consider it.

11:14:35 assbot: Logged on 10-01-2016 03:54:17; mircea_popescu: but anyway. natural birth has a huge following in the states. almost unknown in yurp.

11:15:26 jurov: only few days ago heating in biggest hospital in bratislava fell out and they had to haul women in labour around

11:15:39 kakobrekla: natural = in the barn ?

11:16:03 jurov: no, home, usually in the tub

11:16:32 jurov: with some professional assistant available

11:17:06 kakobrekla: yeah, midwifes

11:18:28 jurov: lulz were when they asked PM about it while he ran his 3rd pressconference about syrian refugees in month

11:18:54 jurov: he literally said "stfu, the boiler room is not my responsibility"

11:40:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14341 @ 0.00051737 = 7.4196 BTC [+] {4}

11:47:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49243 @ 0.00051821 = 25.5182 BTC [+] {3}

11:48:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00051911 = 5.3468 BTC [+]

12:25:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00051603 = 6.5536 BTC [-] {4}

12:35:52 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYZCvIIUsAAJRPP.jpg:large

12:35:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RhQhBL )

12:37:11 shinohai: srsly? Life in the land of the free ....

12:44:25 punkman: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf

12:44:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RhQLI5 )

12:46:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00050727 = 4.9205 BTC [-]

13:01:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4441 @ 0.00050624 = 2.2482 BTC [-] {3}

13:12:42 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364932 They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar.

13:12:42 assbot: Logged on 10-01-2016 06:21:12; BingoBoingo: Could simulate these changes with benzodiazepine dependence (which is why people who do the Keto thing recreationally start to feel sick when carbs are introduced, ketosis stops and they undergo a drug withdrawal)

13:14:10 adlai: !t m s.mpoe

13:14:10 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00048327 / 0.00050429 / 0.00051911 (1339213 shares, 675.35 BTC), 7D: 0.00047125 / 0.00050131 / 0.00052085 (8567396 shares, 4,295.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00047125 / 0.00049646 / 0.00052085 (85080661 shares, 42,239.77 BTC)

13:15:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366010 << you mean measurabilititty.

13:15:40 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:48:39; kakobrekla: im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability

13:17:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366026 << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=foucault lettuce not get ahead of our selves.

13:17:05 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:27; adlai: the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either

13:17:06 assbot: 3 results for 'foucault' - #bitcoin-assets search

13:18:07 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218408 << "never keep"? what does this even

13:18:07 assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 19:17:09; shinohai: Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum

13:19:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366041 << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean.

13:19:15 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:54:29; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366025 << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem

13:20:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366053 << i had no idea lenin shat in the bidet before.

13:20:33 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:59:57; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'

13:21:09 mircea_popescu: "lenin, lived ; lenin, lives ; lenin shat in the bidet!"

13:22:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366063 <<< certainly. which is why trb nodes are not all advertised, and we're eagerly awaiting seeing this "pure coincidence".

13:22:50 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 04:21:48; trinque: hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands.

13:22:55 mircea_popescu: that "never happened"

13:22:56 mircea_popescu: and etc.

13:27:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366093 << not exactly, at least not yet. we had an exchange, they backed off. (last i heard was "We have already asked the complainant to contact the webhost as we do not provide hosting services and cannot remove any content from the website. We are awaiting their response and will forward you the details once they respond." which is exactly what one'd expect sane people

13:27:37 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 06:34:49; copypaste: mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with internet.bs - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was 8chan.co

13:27:37 mircea_popescu: would say to try and extricate themselves from the potential mess).

13:28:12 mircea_popescu: from what intel reports they had a cowboy period ~in2014 when they stole a bunch of domains, got slapped with some suits, lost a coupla worth their income for the decade and settled right the fuck down.

13:29:19 mircea_popescu: anyway, judging by the [Ticket#2015121310000406] header it'd seem they sat on this for almost a month - from dec 13 to jan 9th. but whatevers, i was just looking for a pretext to throw the whole dns bullshit away anyway.

13:29:31 mircea_popescu: i want domain names like i want a wide selection of hats.

13:34:38 adlai: "naked people have little to no influence on society" - mark twain iirc?

13:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00050485 = 11.0562 BTC [-] {4}

13:35:00 mircea_popescu: this was pre-mp.

13:35:16 mircea_popescu: these days, dressed women will have little influence on society.

13:38:18 copypaste: interesting mircea_popescu. i won't ask where you got that intel from, but it means i wasn't the only one affected

13:38:29 copypaste: and i wasn't the only one to open cases in bahamas courts

13:38:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366096 << no, i moved it a few weeks ago.

13:38:35 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 06:37:06; copypaste: (if in fact you registered fraudsters.com on the creation day of 2009-06-07)

13:39:04 mircea_popescu: copypaste tons of people were affected and the eventual sale was related.

13:39:43 mircea_popescu: originally i registered the domain with namecheap ; originally namecheap was a great registrar. meanwhile they went to utter shit, the story is both on fraudsters an' in the logs.

13:40:29 copypaste: do you have a comment on the kimmoa.se article? i think it's spot on but you definitely know all the details already

13:40:35 copypaste: DNS is ICANN and ICANN is USG

13:40:39 copypaste: therefore DNS is USG

13:40:42 copypaste: no way around it.

13:40:47 mircea_popescu: which article is this ?

13:41:01 copypaste: i linked it above in the log

13:41:07 mircea_popescu: ahj saw it

13:41:16 copypaste: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366102

13:41:16 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 06:40:37; copypaste: well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works http://www.kimmoa.se/The_rotten_and_corrupt_Domain_Name_System/

13:43:20 mircea_popescu: i can't make any sense of said article, myself.

13:43:29 mircea_popescu: so guy is pissed off and likes to call things names. fine.

13:44:09 mircea_popescu: for one thing, if half a mil is " you can just forget about that right away." to you, then on what the fuck is your expectation to participate in the workings of society based ?!

13:44:29 mircea_popescu: obviously EVERY naming system will work exactly like the dns, or like the wot works : either be at the table, or be a child looking for parents.

13:44:32 mircea_popescu: how else ?

13:44:57 copypaste: the wot works better than DNS

13:45:03 copypaste: because the WoT is keybased

13:45:06 copypaste: and DNS is fiat biased

13:45:18 copypaste: i would accept a WoT DNS

13:45:21 mircea_popescu: well, yes, because it wasn't made by idiots. but the fundamental point remains : someone excluded could re-use that article by re-writing 5 words.

13:45:47 mircea_popescu: but in point of fact you can run a dns server right now, and tell everyone to use it, and for everyone who does use it... your version of the ns will be visible.

13:46:00 mircea_popescu: heck, there was a bitcoin-based thing that kinda worked on that premise. namecoin.

13:46:07 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b28

13:46:20 copypaste: oh sure, but you don't get to create names on the real DNS

13:46:23 copypaste: the one anyone cares about

13:46:26 mircea_popescu: there is no "real" dns.

13:46:29 copypaste: it's like making an altcoin

13:47:01 copypaste: ICANN has given themselves authority to make new TLDs, ICANN has given themselves ultimate authority over names

13:47:04 mircea_popescu: well yes. your choices are : either have enough power / capiutal / value to acquire enough actual btc to matter in that world ; or else to get used to not mattering in the world ; or else to have even more power and force an alt into being.

13:47:13 mircea_popescu: no, the usg has given icann such authority.

13:47:23 adlai: someday somebody will care enough about this to cannibalize what's left of namecoin and build a proper Bitcoin DNS

13:47:34 mircea_popescu: and every derp out there in indonesia or peru or wherever saving in dollars in preference of my currency, or his president's currency, has given usg such power.

13:48:01 mircea_popescu: if they change that behaviour, the world will re-arrange and so on.

13:48:01 copypaste: "la florida and other places"

13:48:06 copypaste: :)

13:48:07 adlai: maybe naming systems shouldn't be design around "investment" and flipping ownership each month!

13:48:07 mircea_popescu: that one yeah.

13:48:18 mircea_popescu: there is no other way to design a naming system.

13:48:28 adlai: other than?

13:48:44 *: adlai wasn't aware that there was one single blessed version, DNS is just the good-enough fiat leftover that we have today

13:48:50 mircea_popescu: this goes all the way down to actual working of language. do we power the ns that calls me racist and evil ? do we power the ns that calls tess d'urberville or w/e her name is fat and obama an idiot ?

13:48:53 mircea_popescu: you can't have two.

13:49:17 adlai: they can bid it off

13:49:26 mircea_popescu: naming is by its nature this : that there will be a group in power, allocating the names, and everyone else can go suck it.

13:53:03 mircea_popescu: ha-ha. this is what i'll call the delusion of heysteve, this "they can bid it off", after http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300465

13:53:03 assbot: Logged on 16-10-2015 13:23:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300279 << so a) you'll spend your life driving between bickering nuts. this is a worse deal than what psychs get, at least there you gotta drive to his office. ; b) the blockchain and everything else is entirely superfluous here. your entire idea is "hey, make me the mp of renting in south africa". maybe they will or maybe they won't but you really don'

13:53:23 mircea_popescu: who the fuck do you think you are that they'd bother to "bid it off" ? they won't bid it off in front of you, they'll just ignore your delusion.

13:54:59 copypaste: i don't see why naming has to be this way.

13:55:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00050726 = 1.4711 BTC [+] {2}

13:55:14 copypaste: naming based on the bitcoin blockchain is best. i own this bitcoin private key, i own this domain.

13:55:20 copypaste: it's already like that on the tor network.

13:55:27 copypaste: i own this private key, i own domain derpxxxxx.onion.

13:55:36 copypaste: you can;'t take it away from me unless you get the key. that's how naming should be.

13:56:01 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the name zooko ?

13:56:09 copypaste: dns was good in the time of fiat, it's worthless for the new paradigm.

13:56:22 copypaste: i'm not unfortunately.

13:56:35 mircea_popescu: yes. well, look into the zooko triangle.

13:56:49 mircea_popescu: yes, naming can work like that, if 8chan.co and 94875984375983.jksldak are the same to you.

13:57:33 mircea_popescu: otherwise, a bitcoin vanity address with five specified letters (out of the whole set) takes a day.

13:58:21 punkman: might as well do gpg-signed /etc/hosts entries

13:58:50 mircea_popescu: quite.

14:02:19 mircea_popescu: in fact, v-powered /etc/hosts may even be a serious improvement over the current situation.

14:02:50 mircea_popescu: "i want to use the dns for back-up, whenever what ~these~ people use doesn't contain an answer". seems pretty cool.

14:03:56 mircea_popescu: and incidentally, how the dns was actually designed to be used. the current centralist windowstardian webstupidity only works the way it works because of the userbase. the design is fine, but "everyone"| and "has come to expect" and bullshit like that make people pretend like a suboptimal local maximum is relevant to the graph. well... it ain't.

14:05:41 mircea_popescu: hey panzers... we actually game to doing this ? it really dun cost much and it does resolve an actual problem, provide a serious incentive to participate, makes nice media headlines... low hanging fruit.

14:10:35 mircea_popescu: it can even run as an antispam service in parallel. if i go 127.0.0.1 doubleclick.net in my file, you won't be seeing any ads from them in your browser, no matter what they do.

14:12:41 mircea_popescu: it also introduces a kinda dubious but possibly useful ddos protector, in the sense that one can run different ips for the meatriver and for the wotdns.

14:12:43 shinohai: That would be stellar

14:13:52 mircea_popescu: lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup

14:23:18 mircea_popescu: o hey, what happened to guruvan

14:23:20 mircea_popescu: ;;seen guruvan

14:23:21 gribble: guruvan was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <guruvan> have the right key in there?

14:23:31 mircea_popescu: !up guruvan

14:23:35 *: mircea_popescu waves

14:27:10 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365829 if you insist on people telling you what you "must" or "we must do" then I'll tell you this: you must study what was done already before spamming opinions around.

14:27:10 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 01:48:18; *: adlai will have to implement his own, so it runs on his 'pogo'

14:27:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366130 << i suspect i had an incorrect idea of your involvement with that thing.

14:27:49 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 06:52:12; copypaste: renegotiation of that contract would have to be with ads@8ch.net <Jim Watkins>, not me

14:28:07 mircea_popescu: i tend to do this "X's item" because that's how the republic works. obviously, not how the fiatosphere does.

14:28:19 jurov: as you can see i've woken up, still have a half a day to go

14:28:26 jurov: or it's urgent?

14:28:45 mircea_popescu: nah not urgent, just important.

14:32:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00051069 = 12.6651 BTC [+] {3}

14:40:47 copypaste: mircea_popescu: i suspect i also had an incorrect idea of my involvement with that thing

14:40:57 mircea_popescu: hahaha

14:47:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366164 <<< if they do it right after a run of bootleg liquour, it also disinfects!

14:47:27 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 11:16:03; jurov: no, home, usually in the tub

14:48:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366176 << ahahaha what the shit.

14:48:11 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf

14:48:47 mircea_popescu: this wouldn't be http://fraudsters.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ would it ?

14:48:48 assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGaxvt )

14:49:42 mircea_popescu: in any case, http://www.deathandtaxes.com/?p=58 << shot a cop!

14:54:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13591 @ 0.00051259 = 6.9666 BTC [+] {2}

15:05:41 copypaste: i wish there were a statically compiled eulora without all these dependencies

15:05:55 thestringpuller: there's binaries copypaste

15:06:17 copypaste: i keep trying on and off to take MP's invitation to play, but i keep being dissuaded by the large effort required on my part :p

15:06:38 thestringpuller: that's understandable. it's like playing dwarf fortress for the first time I 'spose

15:07:06 copypaste: quite

15:09:53 thestringpuller: i'm waiting for combat/dungeon crawling before I start to get heavily invested.

15:10:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00050414 = 6.6042 BTC [-] {2}

15:11:03 mircea_popescu: what are you trying to run it on ?

15:14:44 copypaste: arch linux x86_64, and shitty pinoy internet to boot

15:16:28 mircea_popescu: hm, did you try teh http://www.eulorum.org/Ubuntu stuff ? i dun recall if anyone ever tried it on arch specifically but by and large should work.

15:16:31 assbot: Ubuntu - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1D6vTgQ )

15:16:38 mircea_popescu: and spit out a usable binary within half an hour.

15:17:19 copypaste: i had some compiler error, i'll have to try again to bring it back up

15:17:27 copypaste: it was getting late so i just shut down and then got busy with other things

15:17:29 copypaste: as things go

15:17:39 copypaste: i only remembered as i was sorting my inbox and saw the invitation again

15:17:43 mircea_popescu: aha. there's a buncha people that can prolly halp if you get a specific error.

15:17:45 jurov: wywialm failed on problems to find corrswtionding arch packages

15:17:56 mircea_popescu: oh ?

15:17:56 jurov: so if you get further, you can at least publish them

15:18:10 mircea_popescu: s/corrswtionding/corresponding ?

15:18:15 jurov: corrswtionding -> corresponding

15:18:20 copypaste: perhaps i could even make a PKGBUILD if i get it to work, if it pleases you guys

15:18:20 mircea_popescu: at least if we have some names we can bitch at arch ppl specifically.

15:18:25 copypaste: i have a few PKGBUILDs in the AUR

15:18:32 mircea_popescu: if you do you prolly get some game goodies at any rate.

15:19:22 jurov: copypaste: and do paste the compiler log (whole if possible).

15:20:52 mircea_popescu: one of the most encouraging things about eulora's economy that i see myself is - i keep a running total of player cash and of player assets. and the latter has been a monotonously increasing function ever since forever. the appetite for materials seems outright insatiable.

15:21:34 mircea_popescu: and in fact from the micro perspective i dun recall anything being offered for sale and not selling, yet.

15:21:54 copypaste: i very much love the concept of a 3d game with a bitcoin economy. i've played a few, but all poorly done.

15:21:58 copypaste: made by derps for derps

15:22:07 mircea_popescu: well the gfx here aren't too advanced,

15:22:25 copypaste: i mean poorly done in the community sense, in the conomy sense, in the sense of rules

15:22:28 mircea_popescu: but if you read the #eulora log.... ( http://logs.minigame.bz )

15:22:28 assbot: #Eulora Log ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGh0Gz )

15:23:01 mircea_popescu: i honestly believe it's the best done game, as far as the underlying "rules" go. owner delusion or not.

15:23:29 mircea_popescu: considering it's been played for nigh on a year and people don't even know wtf those rules even are...

15:23:56 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: this insatiable need for materials will only increase when people start killing things and going to war etc.

15:24:04 mircea_popescu: possibru

15:24:24 thestringpuller: reminds me distinctly of star wars galaxies before Sony ruined the game.

15:24:34 mircea_popescu: of course, no major player quit yet. that's usually a principal source of excess goods

15:24:50 thestringpuller: cause "consumer has come to expect" but I don't think consumers will be problem for eulora

15:25:12 thestringpuller: but in essence eulora is more than a game, and more of a living world that people virtually inhabit

15:26:01 mircea_popescu: not so far. ironically... if you go by a timeplay metric, december saw 64722 player-hours, which is seriously more than what MOST games see.

15:26:34 mircea_popescu: for that matter, usual graphics intensive "AAA" title has what, 50 hours in it ? if not 30.

15:27:50 thestringpuller: the time sinks in those games are relative unfortunately because it's more effective to leave player wanting more, thus AAA publisher forces studio to make another game

15:28:23 thestringpuller: diminishing returns can get really dull after say 80 hours into a game with only 50 hours of story

15:30:33 mircea_popescu: tru

15:30:48 deedbot-: [fraudsters] What to do when spammers spam you ? Why... offer them work, of course! Capitalism saves lives. Touch the screen now! Heal! - http://fraudsters.com/2016/what-to-do-when-spammers-spam-you-why-offer-them-work-of-course-capitalism-saves-lives-touch-the-screen-now-heal/

15:31:22 thestringpuller: as a side note, I know a player with 300 days of playtime on FFXI. Although it's been out since 2002-2003ish

15:31:38 thestringpuller: (300 24 hours intervals)

15:31:41 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 300 * 24 * 3600

15:31:41 gribble: 25920000

15:32:00 mircea_popescu: well... nobody in eulora there yet.

15:32:34 thestringpuller: Eulora will grow as it needs to. It's impressive.

15:33:03 thestringpuller: WoW killed the MMO, Eulora will rebirth it.

15:33:42 mircea_popescu: hopefully.

15:34:09 mircea_popescu: eulora record is actually a guy with 13919282 connecterd time.

15:34:15 mircea_popescu: not gonna say who, other than it's not even me!

15:34:18 mircea_popescu: fucking unfair.

15:34:51 thestringpuller: that's impressive

15:35:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, the first accounts are from early june, so "nigh on a year" ain'\t really fair. half year.

15:37:19 danielpbarron: probably me

15:37:26 jurov: what does DNS-replacement-by-v need to be done? just take your /etc/hosts, sign and publish, no?

15:37:36 mircea_popescu: but yeah, i did notice it tends to suck people in. not everyone, but some people.

15:37:39 thestringpuller: !up PeterL

15:37:56 mircea_popescu: jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ?

15:38:07 mircea_popescu: on the base of sigils etc.

15:38:26 thestringpuller: Eulora has deep gameplay, which creates emergent phenomenon which is by design. The real interesting thing is mircea_popescu has figured out how to do this without spending a million a dollars.

15:38:30 mircea_popescu: user can run it periodically.

15:38:48 thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag

15:39:02 PeterL: BingoBoingo, My current lab is not set up to handle anything as dangerous as FOOF, would need a few kBTC to get something like that set up

15:39:06 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the thing is, the meta-game is incredibly rich and very rewarding. usually the problem with making a game, as an enthusiast, is that fucking hell you know it so it's at best half as fun.

15:39:13 jurov: what's a sigil?

15:39:17 mircea_popescu: but because of the metagame this doesn't actually hold here. much to my satisfaction.

15:39:30 mircea_popescu: jurov concept from v, it keeps a sigil directory.

15:39:43 jurov: are these concepts, like, documented anywhere?

15:39:53 mircea_popescu: heh.

15:40:04 mircea_popescu: but he has a point, mod6 and ascii_butugychag : we should prolly document v.

15:40:21 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366374 << much as mircea_popescu dislikes 'must x before y!1111' affairs, this really oughta run on gossipd.

15:40:21 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 15:37:56; mircea_popescu: jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ?

15:40:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag it oughta, but it can run without it too, and it's seemingly easy enough to get started.

15:40:42 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v

15:40:56 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: can, but with a great deal of manual sweat

15:41:00 mircea_popescu: the advantage of prototyping is that most major issues you will spend time working on, you encounter AFTER you're done designing.

15:41:05 ascii_butugychag: does anyone actually need ~more~ sweat on his box ?

15:41:31 mircea_popescu: what's the great deal ?

15:41:42 mircea_popescu: either cron the updater or run it whenever you please.

15:41:56 ascii_butugychag: how does updater know where to connect ?

15:42:38 mircea_popescu: how does v currently know where to connect to build the rotor ?

15:42:59 ascii_butugychag: my v connects nowhere

15:43:11 mircea_popescu: not the question.

15:43:11 ascii_butugychag: 100% filesystem-based

15:43:54 PeterL: so point the updater using a file

15:44:30 ascii_butugychag: i'm just not personally convinced that names gotta be automatic

15:44:39 mircea_popescu: nobody said they gotta be ?

15:45:17 ascii_butugychag: well it is implicit in the reference to zooko's triangle

15:45:36 thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes mod6 : is there a way to look at what data messages/control messages are going over the wire or force their invocation in trb? or would that functionality need to be patched in to print to log/accept command from some source?

15:45:52 mircea_popescu: the reference was to explain to copypaste why he can't have both worlds / what the use of current dns arrangement is.

15:46:04 ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: 'wireshark' (read-only)

15:46:11 mircea_popescu: if i had to bruteforce sha256 to come up with the signature for "fraudsters.com" i probably wouldn't bother.

15:46:24 thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: thx. that's what I was thinking. will do.

15:47:07 mircea_popescu: and it would definitely cost more than 10 bux.

15:47:23 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i was always ok with '6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 likes to call himself mircea_popescu so why not'

15:47:46 ascii_butugychag: the whole 'memorable centralized names' thing is inherently statal.

15:47:57 mircea_popescu: sure. but i do notice he never registered 6F12EC72A82ABCA35235063A10DDC983901AA183.co

15:48:54 mircea_popescu: (incidentally - if anyone here remembers the ancient discussion re naming services, which is how qntra ended up with that name at least in part - this system would be a necessarily optimal solution to that problem. it'd guarantee you need the minimum possible stroke count to get your desired destination.

15:48:55 ascii_butugychag: he probably also never drove a cart hitched to a pack of stray dogs

15:49:01 mircea_popescu: it'd also guarantee you wouldn't recognize it, but hey.)

15:49:57 ascii_butugychag: i see names as necessarily a local (machine) matter.

15:50:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag and there's no argument considered or offered that it's not statal. the discussion is that under some circumstances it is advantageous.

15:50:37 mircea_popescu: iirc i even said - what that guy complains of, we'd also do.

15:50:39 ascii_butugychag: aha i just got off a city train, likewise inherently statal, and advantageous

15:50:45 mircea_popescu: quite.

15:50:50 ascii_butugychag: incidentally there was a ragged black fella preaching about 9/11 inside job

15:50:57 ascii_butugychag: and usg spreading aids, chemtrails, etc.

15:51:04 ascii_butugychag: enjoyed a good hour of this

15:51:09 mircea_popescu: but he wasn't the conductor.

15:51:15 ascii_butugychag: no conductor

15:52:00 ascii_butugychag: 'don't believe me?!! look what's happening to yer greenbacks!!!111'

15:52:03 ascii_butugychag: -- direct quote

15:52:08 mircea_popescu: "Million Mask March: Many younger sovereigns are fascinated with ideas of a youth revolution, anarchy, and hacktivism (a portmanteau of hack and activism,) even though the majority of them are not particularly computer savvy. They often call themselves Anonymous and wear the mask and costume of the central character in the movie V for Vendetta."

15:52:14 mircea_popescu: this is pretty lulzy.

15:52:21 ascii_butugychag: ^ old nyooz ?

15:52:27 mircea_popescu: aha.

15:53:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00050889 = 15.1705 BTC [+] {3}

15:53:08 copypaste: Anonymous are (rightfully) viewed as losers, or USG themselves, by most thinking people

15:53:13 ascii_butugychag: cult film, what canyoudo

15:53:34 shinohai: Anons lel

15:53:34 mircea_popescu: "A few take it one step further by initiating violence in hopes of acting as a catalyst for this war. Timothy McVeigh?s goals, for example, weren?t just to murder 168 people, bring down a symbolic building, and punish the government for its role in the standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He wanted to make his mark in history by providing the Patriot movement with the spark that would light the fires of revolution.

15:53:35 mircea_popescu: Ironically, the Sovereign movement is made up of highly paranoid people who tend to believe that every violent act in recent history is a ?false flag? operation set in motion by the evil government, so the odds of such an event triggering a Revolution are quite slim."

15:53:37 mircea_popescu: lulzy.

15:54:49 ascii_butugychag: where was this

15:55:36 mircea_popescu: earlier linked piece, random derpage. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366176

15:55:36 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf

15:57:13 ascii_butugychag: sovereigns ?!!

15:57:30 mircea_popescu: incidentally, i finally got to the bottom of the shocking absence of anyone but caucasians from argentina (it is, literally, the whitest place on earth, up there with romania and i guess montana)

15:58:17 mircea_popescu: older folk explained it to me. back when they had their various wars, they confronted paraguayans at some point, and managed to sell the slaves on the theory that black men make the best warrirors for which reason they must take the first lines.

15:58:33 mircea_popescu: "y los paraguashos los mataron todos!"

15:59:44 mircea_popescu: i suspect that as the century-old (and probably more grounded) view of black people as naturally cowardly and militarily worthless gives way to this purely symbolic "black is the new manhood", extermination approaches.

16:00:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26650 @ 0.00050953 = 13.579 BTC [+]

16:00:20 ascii_butugychag: aha, only black fella i saw in b-a was a pilot

16:01:15 mircea_popescu: some limited immigration was permitted of ex spanish african colonies

16:01:36 mircea_popescu: but it mostly provides street vendors, and i'd be surprised if it makes up that many ppm.

16:01:38 mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1

16:01:53 indiancandy1: HEY GANG

16:02:04 mircea_popescu: bang!

16:06:13 mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366283 << this is an interesting idea.

16:06:13 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 14:13:52; mircea_popescu: lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ?

16:07:23 mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366390 << I do have a usage guide and quick-start guide... but maybe more of whats needed is not a reference manual, but an overall concept paper.

16:07:23 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 15:40:42; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v

16:07:35 mircea_popescu: yeah.

16:07:45 mircea_popescu: so that people can correctly develop on top of a shared core

16:07:49 mircea_popescu: rather than you know... mess.

16:08:51 ascii_butugychag: a sigil is a tuple of a seal & the thing-sealed.

16:09:35 shinohai: !up ascii_butugychag

16:10:44 mircea_popescu: i thought sigil was the name of keys in v.

16:11:00 ascii_butugychag: possibly

16:11:04 ascii_butugychag: i dun think i named them

16:11:07 mircea_popescu: right.

16:11:08 ascii_butugychag: but this is a good one.

16:11:13 ascii_butugychag: let's

16:11:51 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366191 << complicated. v is deliberately unusable with 'fuzzy' flow

16:11:51 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 13:19:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366041 << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean.

16:11:59 mircea_popescu: so atm, as a working theory : the correct working of the nosuchdns script would be a) look in sigils directory and build list of sigils ; b) look in repository (where ?) for what's signed by the sigils ; c) create a sort -u list of the aformenentioned and dump it in hosts as > ratrher thjan >> ?

16:12:01 ascii_butugychag: (e.g., you don't know EXACTLY bitwise what you want at a step)

16:12:04 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ? << by definition, for me its a cryptographic signature (embossment) of a given input.

16:12:20 mircea_popescu: mod6 so then what's a seal ?

16:12:31 mircea_popescu: do sigils produce seals or do seals produce sigils.

16:12:42 ascii_butugychag: let's sigils produce seals!

16:12:48 ascii_butugychag: this is the proper meaning.

16:13:02 mircea_popescu: i thought so too.

16:13:03 mod6: ah, to me that's what i took 'sigil' to mean, 'a seal'. I may misunderstand the language.

16:13:05 ascii_butugychag: sigil =~= rsa modulus

16:13:14 ascii_butugychag: seal ~= rsa modular exponentiant.

16:13:37 ascii_butugychag: (at least for now, at some point folks might start using lattice or even, fuck, lamport signatures)

16:13:49 mircea_popescu: maybe in 2017.

16:15:13 ascii_butugychag: (for n00bz: lamport signature is to signing approx. what otp is to encipherment)

16:17:33 mircea_popescu: rather approx.

16:18:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag what about this fuzzy flow ?

16:18:25 ascii_butugychag: approx same pain

16:18:28 ascii_butugychag: but less gain.

16:18:32 mircea_popescu: huh ?

16:18:40 mircea_popescu: oh oh. yeah, re lamport.

16:18:48 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: as for 'portage', think about it

16:18:55 mircea_popescu: i am.

16:18:59 mircea_popescu: do tell ?

16:19:07 ascii_butugychag: the port tree does not specify the exact hash of executable built at each point

16:19:15 ascii_butugychag: because nobody has a deterministic builder

16:19:40 mircea_popescu: this simply means the port tree is curreently empty

16:19:43 mircea_popescu: and will have to be filled.

16:19:46 ascii_butugychag: it had, iirc, some (spotty) support for pgp

16:19:53 ascii_butugychag: but nothing that would add up to sanity

16:20:02 mircea_popescu: "smart people disagree because they do not share priors ; idiots disagree because they can't follow implications"

16:20:12 ascii_butugychag: first need deterministic buildatron.

16:20:32 ascii_butugychag: unfortunately this is not negotiable

16:20:41 ascii_butugychag: gotta have this x before you can even think about y-ing.

16:21:02 ascii_butugychag: and deterministic in the ~bitwise~ sense.

16:21:22 ascii_butugychag: as in, i build on nintendo, mircea_popescu on cray, we get same elf output so long as we asked for same target and used same src.

16:22:43 ascii_butugychag: all of the idiot indeterminate hiss on current boxes will have to go.

16:23:25 ascii_butugychag: (recall when we diffed rotor builds ??)

16:24:26 trinque: ascii_butugychag: what did you think of my simply checking the hash at the end of a build target?

16:24:34 trinque: did it for downloads; trivial to do for a produced binary as well

16:24:36 ascii_butugychag: as i said,

16:24:40 ascii_butugychag: no, not trivial.

16:24:45 ascii_butugychag: because gcc is full of shit

16:24:59 ascii_butugychag: it shits out system-specific crud into the build.

16:25:00 ascii_butugychag: try it.

16:25:00 trinque: sure, trivial to check is all

16:25:05 ascii_butugychag: CHECK is useless

16:25:06 ascii_butugychag: needs to DIE

16:25:22 trinque: mkay, how are you going to get gcc shitting consistently then?

16:25:26 ascii_butugychag: for so long as the crud gets put there, you don't have deterministic build

16:25:31 ascii_butugychag: you 1) patch gcc

16:25:34 trinque: sure, I don't disagree

16:25:40 ascii_butugychag: 2) make sure src is EXACTLY SAME on all boxes.

16:25:58 ascii_butugychag: not same binary? won't hash correctly, flow graph cannot proceed.

16:26:30 *: trinque slaps his forehead

16:26:39 trinque: yes, having a make target fail when a hash fails is a good idea

16:26:40 ascii_butugychag: you can think of this idea as a more fascist version of 'make'

16:26:51 trinque: my makefiles do that

16:26:58 trinque: moves the built target out of the way if it fails

16:27:01 trinque: was easy

16:27:02 ascii_butugychag: presently, 'make' only cares that a particular file name comes to exist

16:27:21 trinque: read teh verify.mk include, does precisely what you're saying

16:27:30 trinque: "CHECK_OR_DIE"

16:27:37 ascii_butugychag: but i was discussing a hypothetical v-tronic variant of 'portage'

16:28:12 trinque: yep, would that not be a tree of v-patches on a tree of makefiles?

16:28:22 ascii_butugychag: the thing to understand is that we are doing something quite analogous to the invention of... SANITATION.

16:28:26 trinque: could reinvent the makefile like "ebuild" or w/e, still a makefile

16:30:18 mircea_popescu: <trinque> "CHECK_OR_DIE" << word.

16:30:29 *: mircea_popescu liked that

16:32:12 mircea_popescu: "By the end of April, the couple was completely broke, unemployed, and effectively exiled from a community they had given up everything to join. Jerad reached out to some of the other local voices in the movement, but found that most such activists were big on words, minimal on action, and did little more than post anti-government pictures and rants on the Internet."

16:32:27 mircea_popescu: am i the only one who sees this eerily reminiscent of "bitcoin nodes" situation ?

16:32:36 ascii_butugychag: wai wut

16:33:05 ascii_butugychag: the pestilence of faux nodez?

16:33:20 mircea_popescu: yup

16:33:31 mircea_popescu: until and unless you ban the blooming idiots, your copshootings take forever to propagate

16:33:35 ascii_butugychag: speaking of which - anybody else try my malleus mikehearnificarum ?

16:33:38 mircea_popescu: once you do, it's simultaneous.

16:34:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00050992 = 1.8357 BTC [+] {2}

16:35:36 mircea_popescu: ?This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who truly deserve it.? Jerad Miller, M

16:35:36 mircea_popescu: ay 7, 2014

16:35:54 copypaste: where does this quote come from?

16:36:56 mircea_popescu: this 31 yo guy who together with his 22 yo wife shot a coupla cops and then got killed.

16:37:27 copypaste: ah, i meant the first one, my client was scrolled up

16:37:34 copypaste: By the end of April...

16:38:30 mircea_popescu: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/?p=58

16:38:42 mircea_popescu: some obscure usg outlet.

16:40:01 mircea_popescu: "Examples of recent activity

16:40:02 mircea_popescu: September 9, 2014 ? Eric Frein, an anti-government survivalist, is currently a fugitive wanted for shooting two Pennsylvania State troopers in an ambush, killing one and wounding the other. According to the State Police Commissioner, Frein had talked about committing mass murder in addition to killing officers. He was recently added to the FBI?s 10 Most Wanted list. General Anti-government

16:40:02 mircea_popescu: August 12, 2014 ? Armed with an AK-47, ammunition, and propane canisters, Douglas Lee Leguin set a fire, then called 911 to report it. When Texas officers and firemen responded to the call, he shot at them in order to bring attention to his political complaints. Sovereign Citizen"

16:40:14 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366180 << Oh no jurov, the people are addicted to NOT having sugar.

16:40:14 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 13:12:42; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364932 They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar.

16:40:43 mircea_popescu: ironically... i believe if one were to add up the number of usg agent deaths as evident from prosecution attempts, and then compare that figure with the number of usg agent deaths as reported by the usg for various statistical purposes, a 10:1 difference wouldn't even be surprising.

16:41:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8441 @ 0.00050414 = 4.2554 BTC [-] {2}

16:42:01 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

16:42:38 ascii_butugychag: re: earlier thread: for historian types such as pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922643 << my original source for concept in 'v'

16:42:38 assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:27:45; asciilifeform: there was a three-man system

16:43:41 mircea_popescu: will come in handy once we actually have / can afford three men working on any one thing.

16:43:45 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366550 << this could almost literally be a quote from that fella on the train this morning

16:43:45 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 16:35:36; mircea_popescu: ?This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who truly deserve it.?

16:44:04 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag or, for that matter, from me.

16:45:54 ascii_butugychag: the emphasis on local police is intensely usgtronic, however.

16:45:59 ascii_butugychag: !s gendarmerie

16:46:00 assbot: 28 results for 'gendarmerie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gendarmerie

16:46:38 mircea_popescu: not so. you're wrong in this reading, and the usg itself very clearly proves they understand this (for instance in their attempts to hide behind the tired local sheriff dioscussed on qntra)

16:46:55 mircea_popescu: it would be a forced mistake for this gendarmerie to appear. and forced it must be.

16:47:08 ascii_butugychag: local police are all that presently stand between average u.s. pgp user and a dhs torture chamber.

16:47:19 mircea_popescu: i do not believe so.

16:47:26 ascii_butugychag: (in the aggregate, rather than the particular.)

16:47:33 mircea_popescu: local police is what currently stand between random acts of violence and the us president being raped on camera.

16:47:48 ascii_butugychag: consider brazil.

16:47:56 mircea_popescu: and while i have no particular taste for violence, i do wish to see obama, or his successor, raped on camera.

16:47:59 mircea_popescu: what of brazil ?

16:48:02 ascii_butugychag: chaos in the precincts, no presidential rape on camera ?

16:48:09 mircea_popescu: orly.

16:48:14 ascii_butugychag: afaik.

16:48:21 mircea_popescu: we don't agree on this point.

16:48:49 ascii_butugychag: which? the chaos? or br still having an unraped pres

16:50:00 mircea_popescu: i don't agree that brazil works as an example for your purpose.

16:50:29 mircea_popescu: but be that as it may : as the oathkeepers article derrided here yest nevertheless correctly points out: other people's problems,. to be resolved by those self-same other people.

16:50:45 ascii_butugychag: how else.

16:50:50 BingoBoingo: PeterL: I guess it can wait. I just like how somethign so cool has such an onomatapeia

16:50:53 ascii_butugychag: not by martians, no.

16:51:40 mircea_popescu: and mexico makes for a much better example, in that direction.

16:52:06 ascii_butugychag: how's that

16:52:06 BingoBoingo: !up PeterL

16:52:25 PeterL: BingoBoingo, I don't particularly want to go FOOF myself

16:52:47 PeterL: seems like a nasty chemical to work with

16:52:49 BingoBoingo: Ah, I see

16:53:06 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag numerous examples of pretorian guard heads that thought going with the usg is safe beheaded.

16:53:26 ascii_butugychag: by the next usg stooge, aha

16:53:39 mircea_popescu: mno.

16:54:43 ascii_butugychag: re: malleus thread: did mircea_popescu ever write an article about the error of 'postel's law' ?

16:54:55 mircea_popescu: and i specifically discuss the president rather than the "mayor of the palace" because really, having dagobert cut to pieces in the public place is a worse stigma on the obnoxious pepin than actually shortening him a head more would have been.

16:55:03 ascii_butugychag: after the successful test of malleus h., i've been tempted to write one

16:55:18 ascii_butugychag: looked for old work, found only this - http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1999945

16:55:19 assbot: The Robustness Principle Reconsidered - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zgq3ig )

16:55:19 mircea_popescu: please do. if i did it'd be fragmentary and so on

16:55:49 PeterL: I have had a reactor make a foof sound as it lit fire, not a pleasant experience (and that was just a simple combustion of THF, nothing explosive)

16:56:08 ascii_butugychag: for n00bz, 'postel's law' went something like 'be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept.'

16:57:47 ascii_butugychag: it has the smell of good engineering and thereby became enshrined in the old canon

16:57:56 ascii_butugychag: but leads to tremendous ecological catastrophe

16:58:03 ascii_butugychag: (in the genuine sense of the word)

16:58:13 mircea_popescu: write the article. i'll read, and if need comment!

16:59:58 BingoBoingo: PeterL: Well, maybe this is a job for the indians or Chicoms

17:00:09 ascii_butugychag: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=37 << related

17:01:26 ascii_butugychag: specifically y. kreinin's text,

17:01:32 ascii_butugychag: 'How many problems did you have with hardware compared to OS compared to end-user apps? According to most evidence I got, JavaScript does whatever the hell it wants at each browser. Hardware is not like that. CPUs from the same breed will run the user-level instructions identically or get off the market. Memory-mapped devices following a hardware protocol for talking to the bus will actually follow it, damn it, or ge

17:02:00 ascii_butugychag: 'Low-level things are likely to work correctly since there’s tremendous pressure for them to do so. Because otherwise, all the higher-level stuff will collapse, and everybody will go “AAAAAAAAAA!!”'

17:02:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5277 @ 0.00051018 = 2.6922 BTC [+] {2}

17:02:42 ascii_butugychag: the few precious things that ACTUALLY WORK, consistently, every time - your cpu's adder, the bus, etc. SHIT on postel.

17:03:08 ascii_butugychag: by being ~extremely~ tight, and, importantly, well-specified, in what input they accept.

17:03:14 PeterL: garbag in, garbage out

17:03:16 mircea_popescu: your definition of "actually work" is different from HIS definition of "Actually work".

17:03:24 mircea_popescu: consider unpnp, it is the best example.

17:03:32 mircea_popescu: does bitcoin "actually work" with or without it ?

17:03:41 ascii_butugychag: there was a time when alu worked the way upnp 'works'

17:03:43 ascii_butugychag: know when?

17:03:51 ascii_butugychag: when 'computer' was a... job description

17:03:57 ascii_butugychag: and gurlz sat with abacus

17:04:04 ascii_butugychag: gurl hung over? wrong numbers come out

17:04:16 mircea_popescu: and an important thing to point out is also the b-a model.

17:04:19 ascii_butugychag: which is how babbage got his gig

17:04:32 mircea_popescu: #b-a is EXTREMELY liberal in what it accepts, and extremely conservative in who it accepts it from.

17:04:50 mircea_popescu: this happens to be how sexuate reproduction works, also, which makes me suspect it's a peak behaviour.

17:04:54 ascii_butugychag: this works for knights of the round table, but not so much for menial mechanics

17:05:03 mircea_popescu: and you know this how and wherefore.

17:05:09 mircea_popescu: cunt is mechanics.

17:05:12 mircea_popescu: !s cunt runs on perl

17:05:13 assbot: 0 results for 'cunt runs on perl' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cunt+runs+on+perl

17:05:14 ascii_butugychag: 'assembly line with phds'

17:05:18 mircea_popescu: he BULLSHIT

17:05:37 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag nope. there isn't a person in every cunt, yet they all work.

17:05:57 ascii_butugychag: depends what means 'work'

17:06:19 ascii_butugychag: produce shaved apes fairly reliably, sure

17:06:41 ascii_butugychag: and the abacus gurlz produced... numbers!111 reliably.

17:06:46 ascii_butugychag: just not necessarily the ones you want.

17:07:12 ascii_butugychag: that's the whole notion of a mechanism - that it does something quite specific, in a quite-specific way, that is defined in advance

17:07:17 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

17:07:45 mircea_popescu: this looks to me like a large cave, actually.

17:08:10 ascii_butugychag: hm?

17:08:34 mircea_popescu: !rate copypaste 1 HotWheels / 8chan guy

17:08:34 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a51bc4c939860f84

17:08:55 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.copypaste.1:900d82e7c59245e329102c53b146c1d58cddb571df4cc512b93fdab831b55a4a

17:08:55 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for copypaste with note: HotWheels / 8chan guy

17:09:11 copypaste: thought you guys might get a kick out of this. i'm reading a highly contested law where i live (philippines)

17:09:13 copypaste: this is part of it

17:09:15 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this thing, that we were discussing. seems to me to make the echo sounds typical of a huge cave, even if we only found a little hole.

17:09:18 copypaste: https://imgur.com/gB9G2Oz

17:09:19 assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZnAm9A )

17:09:49 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: dan mocsny had a spiffy essay on man and mechanism in this sense, but afaik it is lost to history

17:09:53 ascii_butugychag: (google nuked it)

17:09:57 mircea_popescu: copypaste dpaste al;ways better for text. and do you kno what deedbot is ?

17:10:03 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag heh.

17:10:16 copypaste: it's a PDF, and it was made by Pinoys, so of course it doesn't copy right

17:10:23 copypaste: that's what i tried first, but it got all misformatted

17:11:09 mircea_popescu: pdf must die already omfg.

17:11:19 ascii_butugychag: mocsny had examples, e.g., man takes 'viagra', turning cock into a mechanism, in the sense that you walk into a forest and are not content to sit on ~any~ old surface, if you are there long enough you start making chairs, polishing the wood, etc

17:11:20 ascii_butugychag: mechanisms.

17:11:34 ascii_butugychag: rather than natural crud as-found.

17:11:42 copypaste: mircea_popescu: here's how Okular (KDE PDF client) interpreted it: http://dpaste.com/1GY12RN

17:11:44 assbot: dpaste: 1GY12RN ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZgscKL )

17:11:47 copypaste: i have no idea how they managed that.

17:12:12 ascii_butugychag: pdf can die when i can type in integral sign and not have it EVER pagebroken.

17:12:20 ascii_butugychag: then and not before.

17:12:31 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> pdf must die already omfg. << yes.

17:14:02 mod6: !up ascii_butugychag

17:14:55 ascii_butugychag: i have yet to see a pill against pdf proposed here that doesn't reduce to mircea_popescu's broomstick.

17:16:24 ascii_butugychag: i own a printer. and i intend to keep owning a printer. i like paper. and i don't ever want to see a motherfucking pagebreak in the middle of an equation.

17:16:27 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag what "page"

17:16:32 ascii_butugychag: page.

17:16:35 ascii_butugychag: of dead wood.

17:16:42 mircea_popescu: eh quit smoking.

17:16:47 mircea_popescu: it's good for the environment and ok for you.

17:17:10 ascii_butugychag: eh make me a 1200 dpi screen then

17:17:16 ascii_butugychag: and i'll begin to think about it

17:17:23 copypaste: e-ink eschews the need for real paper

17:17:40 ascii_butugychag: copypaste: tops out at 300 dpi or so

17:17:46 ascii_butugychag: and no colour.

17:17:59 mod6: i like ascii txt

17:18:01 mircea_popescu: mkay, do what i did back before i had a dirigible :

17:18:02 *: ascii_butugychag has owned possibly every e-ink toy on the market

17:18:06 mircea_popescu: have your dad steal some fucking listing paper already!

17:18:20 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i own a gigantic crate

17:18:24 mircea_popescu: this "page" nonsense is related to written matter like excel spreadsheets are related to business

17:18:30 ascii_butugychag: but matrix printer tops out at 100 or so dpi.

17:18:33 ascii_butugychag: and looks like shit

17:18:34 mircea_popescu: keep your stuff as rolls like god & newton intended

17:19:56 ascii_butugychag: y'know, rolls still have a horizontal width.

17:20:05 ascii_butugychag: that is fixed.

17:21:09 trinque: CSS has a "don't pagebreak this when printed"

17:21:49 ascii_butugychag: and if 'this' exceeds the pixel count of the page ?

17:22:06 ascii_butugychag: ever read knuth's tex book ?

17:22:13 ascii_butugychag: or at least understand why tex is complicated ?

17:22:39 trinque: you're asking if it can scale things down to fit the page?

17:22:45 trinque: no, I have not read a book on tex

17:22:53 copypaste: CSS has many rules, what matters is how they're implemented.

17:22:59 copypaste: <BLINK> still exists - in theory.

17:23:17 trinque: page-break-inside has pretty wide support

17:23:25 ascii_butugychag: scaling down pixelwise is idiocy if it results in an equation where i cannot read the sub- and superscripts, say.

17:24:02 trinque: so we use our brains and wrap whatever you don't want broken in a box with the above CSS

17:24:12 ascii_butugychag: trinque: i have yet to see even a sane implementation of, e.g., mathml.

17:24:13 *: trinque is merely making the humble claim that HTML > PDF

17:24:19 ascii_butugychag: and i am NOT interested in equations-as-bitmaps!

17:24:23 ascii_butugychag: because that is idiocy

17:24:49 ascii_butugychag: gotta be searchable, cut&pastable, etc.

17:24:52 ascii_butugychag: first-class citizens.

17:24:55 trinque: reasonable.

17:25:02 ascii_butugychag: and presently only achieved in pdf.

17:25:12 ascii_butugychag: (or rather, postscript, pdf is merely ps rebranded)

17:25:44 ascii_butugychag: ps is a 1980s thing, and was invented for perfectly valid reasons, the malicious bugginess of crapobat etc. are not inherent in it.

17:25:59 mircea_popescu: !up Guest72952

17:26:11 Guest72952: dude

17:26:18 Guest72952: ur chatroom robbed my name

17:26:20 Guest72952: im hurt

17:26:28 mircea_popescu: what name ?

17:26:30 Guest72952: i went to eat

17:26:34 Guest72952: indiancandy1

17:26:58 mircea_popescu: <copypaste> <BLINK> still exists - in theory. << in practice. even used on fraudsters.

17:27:24 copypaste: no, just in theory. all the widely used implementations have dropped it, at least by default

17:27:25 ascii_butugychag: does anyone recall emma goldman's famous words re: dancing & the revolution?

17:27:34 copypaste: <blink> probably exists on fraudsters, but nobody notices it, more than likely

17:27:40 copypaste: except the odd reader using IE6 of course!

17:27:41 mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> and presently only achieved in pdf. << have you lost it, man ?! what of pdf is searchable, cut/paster able etc ?

17:27:44 ascii_butugychag: 'if i cannot dance, i want nothing to do with your revolution'

17:27:52 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: pdf crapped out by latex is all of these !

17:28:02 ascii_butugychag: it is ~allowed for~ by the format

17:28:03 mircea_popescu: not what we're discussing here!

17:28:14 mircea_popescu: would it please you if i said adobe must die ?

17:28:19 ascii_butugychag: yes.

17:28:22 mircea_popescu: aite.

17:28:41 ascii_butugychag: but iirc mircea_popescu is allergic to the whole notion of vector graphics for-printer

17:28:56 ascii_butugychag: which always struck me as quite broomsticky

17:29:23 mircea_popescu: i'm allergic at the notion of being fed it. i'm niot a printer.

17:29:45 mircea_popescu: just like i'm not interested in binary blob "signed" text.

17:29:48 ascii_butugychag: be fed baudot over smoke signal if you go in for that

17:30:21 ascii_butugychag: everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it

17:30:25 trinque: how bout math in ascii sexps?

17:30:35 ascii_butugychag: trinque: again, rendered how

17:30:44 trinque: plain text

17:30:46 ascii_butugychag: i'm all for latex-like animal in sexp representation

17:30:54 ascii_butugychag: but i have no interest in READING it with naked eye!!

17:30:57 trinque: no, why the insane notation at all

17:31:02 mircea_popescu: quick test : does http://fraudsters.com/2015/sa-muare-haterii-mei-doi/#selection-83.0-83.6 blink for anyone but me ?

17:31:03 assbot: Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguysY )

17:31:07 trinque: wasn't the original purpose of the sexp *this* ?

17:31:14 ascii_butugychag: trinque: absolutely motherfucking not

17:31:24 ascii_butugychag: not even mccarthy wanted to LOOK at sexps with eyes!

17:31:26 mircea_popescu: <trinque> how bout math in ascii sexps? << pretty much the only known solution to his problem

17:31:30 ascii_butugychag: they were meant as an intermediate representation

17:31:32 mircea_popescu: it's of course "counterintuitive" to she-brains

17:31:36 trinque: wat

17:31:38 ascii_butugychag: to be rendered by machine into a preferred form

17:31:39 ascii_butugychag: yes

17:31:44 ascii_butugychag: read 'lisp-1' paper.

17:31:46 mircea_popescu: !up ozymandias_

17:31:47 ascii_butugychag: by john m.

17:31:52 ozymandias_: If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

17:31:59 mircea_popescu: why can;t you dance ?

17:32:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050698 = 16.1727 BTC [-]

17:32:58 mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it << one. ONE.\

17:33:05 mircea_popescu: there shall not be any more. and sure as fuck not infinity.

17:33:08 mircea_popescu: there may be exactly one.

17:33:36 ascii_butugychag: if i can't read, say, http://www.complexity.ethz.ch/education/Lectures/ComplexityHS10/ScriptChapterTwelve WITHOUT ANY degradation in quality, searchability, without superfluous page breaks or line breaks, 'can't dance'

17:33:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguQjK )

17:33:58 mircea_popescu: you can't dance anyway. i was asking the ozy nboob

17:34:16 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: mno. you are, for instance, using irc client, which is not same as telnet, isn't showing you (or making you manually type in) the PING and PONG, say

17:34:27 mircea_popescu: hey ascii_butugychag are those graphs pngs ? hm ? HM ?

17:34:27 ascii_butugychag: so there is sure as hell more than one renderer.

17:34:29 mircea_popescu: you lose.

17:34:58 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: whatcha talking about, the text is selectable

17:35:01 ascii_butugychag: in those graphs.

17:35:05 mircea_popescu: the text is, yes.

17:35:10 mircea_popescu: BUT THE GRAPHS THEMSELVES

17:35:11 mircea_popescu: are not.

17:35:21 mircea_popescu: i see no indication as to how the arrows go.

17:35:39 mircea_popescu: suppose i want the circles filled in red. what now ?

17:35:54 mircea_popescu: how do i SEARCH for "arrow pointing like this" ? hm ?

17:36:14 mircea_popescu: learn to alphabet already, ya buncha "visual thinker" illiterate louts!

17:36:14 ascii_butugychag: i agree, whole thing oughta be a sexpr underneath

17:36:21 ascii_butugychag: where you ~could~ search for 'red arrows' etc

17:36:33 mircea_popescu: heh.

17:36:38 ascii_butugychag: but UNDERNEATH.

17:36:52 ascii_butugychag: 'i wanna hug a gurl not a set of loose guts'

17:37:07 trinque: why is sexp such a good representation for programming but not math

17:37:27 ascii_butugychag: trinque: it is a good representation for directly manipulating ast

17:37:45 ascii_butugychag: this is rather like asking why a heap of guts is the correct interface for a surgeon but not a lover !

17:38:10 trinque: that statement does not make any argument for why the seemingly arbitrary syntax of mathematics is good

17:38:13 ascii_butugychag: for ~authoring~ maths - absolutely, gimme sexpr.

17:38:19 trinque: and applies as easily to C++ or any other hell

17:38:26 ascii_butugychag: trinque: because it is compact.

17:38:33 ascii_butugychag: and i don't always like the notation.;

17:38:52 ascii_butugychag: but a 1 line equation beats two pages of ascii crud.

17:39:39 guruvan: what's going on guise?

17:40:28 trinque: ascii_butugychag: there is python (or cursed rubby) which is "more compact" like your equation, yet I prefer lisp

17:40:38 trinque: why?

17:40:46 ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111

17:41:05 ascii_butugychag: trinque: compact at a price

17:41:30 trinque: this is why urbit did those glyphs or whatever they called them

17:41:41 trinque: why write "if" when you can ?!? or w/e

17:41:48 ascii_butugychag: now that's garbage.

17:41:52 ascii_butugychag: just like perl is.

17:41:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00050414 = 20.9974 BTC [-]

17:42:04 mircea_popescu: nothing much guruvan, some tweet of yours got linked

17:42:27 ascii_butugychag: people who ~live and die~ by motherfucking compact equations, ALWAYS invent hieroglyphs

17:42:32 guruvan: saw that - can hadly believe it's been so long since I've been in here

17:42:39 ascii_butugychag: just like mechanic buys a hammer and NOT a brick.

17:43:21 mircea_popescu: just like everyone tickles the woman in random way in private. this is math porn what you're proposing.

17:43:52 guruvan: I see you guys still remember how bitcoin works :)

17:44:07 ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this.

17:44:09 mircea_popescu: possibly the only group left. there's been some sort of strange deluge or something.

17:44:15 ascii_butugychag: who wants to use motherfucking words

17:44:22 ascii_butugychag: as if it were euclid's greece

17:44:33 mircea_popescu: hey, euclid's greece did alright.

17:44:42 ascii_butugychag: mno.

17:44:53 ascii_butugychag: that tower only gets so-high.

17:44:57 mircea_popescu: find me actual working programmers that want to use static linked binaries. like it were 1970s MIT!

17:45:03 trinque: still no reason put why using words and sexps is a good thing in programming, a bad thing in mathematics

17:45:05 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

17:45:24 mircea_popescu: "that tower only gets so high!"

17:45:26 ascii_butugychag: trinque: a good and necessary thing in mathematics. but i don't want to view them with eyes!

17:45:41 trinque: give a reason! lol

17:46:06 ascii_butugychag: because 1-line equation can be 4 pages of sexp ???

17:46:38 mircea_popescu: let's make it plain : the forum language will be alphabetic, not hieroglyphic. how you paint the meaning from the letters into little icons in your own livingroom - your problem.

17:46:49 mircea_popescu: but i do not wish to see them, pray with them, and so following.

17:46:50 ascii_butugychag: then forum doesn't do maths.

17:47:00 mircea_popescu: the forum is whenever one talks to another publicly.

17:47:00 trinque: "because."

17:47:09 mircea_popescu: if you're not fucking, you're in the forum.

17:47:47 ascii_butugychag: and i notice that mircea_popescu links to bitmaps of gurlz, not homeric descriptions in 10,000 words...

17:48:01 mircea_popescu: zing.

17:48:35 mod6: hawtbutts.txt

17:48:50 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> quick test : does http://fraudsters.com/2015/sa-muare-haterii-mei-doi/#selection-83.0-83.6 blink for anyone but me ? << lemme reiterate

17:48:51 assbot: Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguysY )

17:49:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38569 @ 0.00050657 = 19.5379 BTC [+] {2}

17:49:44 trinque: if a guy were trying to understand the rationale behind using dense symbols in mathematics from this conversation, he would fail.

17:52:04 BingoBoingo: Assorted things https://archive.is/9bLoV

17:52:05 assbot: Butters now Supposed to run full nodes to use lite wallets : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1mQSQ0Y )

17:52:18 mircea_popescu: trinque yet the explanation is very simple : a certain set of brain circuitry is deeply involved in novel thought (about everything, including mathematics) and at the same time refractary to structure.

17:52:47 mircea_popescu: generally people trying to think in this particular sense try and dope it.

17:57:01 mircea_popescu: such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols".

17:57:16 mircea_popescu: this, obviously, is anathema to communication.

17:58:01 trinque: aha, seemed entirely psychological. "the mysterious symbols of the world of mathematics! greek letters even!"

17:58:22 mircea_popescu: it is also fundamentally why math "is hard". for every non-retarded young adult who believes math is hard you have a case of a child who developed his own, highly personal set of shitty symbols, and then never received a good explanation as to what the difference between his and "everyone else"'s is, so got lost.

17:58:32 mircea_popescu: because, obviously, the problem of translating between sets is untractable.

17:59:00 mircea_popescu: the problems people encounter with statistics are probably the most obvious place to study this issue.

17:59:04 BingoBoingo: Apparently social media is talking about asciilifeform's Malleum patch when they were largely afraid to discuss qntra on Oregon https://archive.is/f1p8H

17:59:07 assbot: Cyril Blanc on Twitter: "@MrChrisEllis @dnivi3 @PQMerkle https://t.co/HpD1xhTa3w" ... ( http://bit.ly/1mQUorP )

18:00:30 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo prolly a good time to link http://deedbot.org/deed-392674-1.txt

18:00:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1mQUIqG )

18:03:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00050414 = 1.6637 BTC [-] {2}

18:07:17 guruvan: BingoBoingo: classic - banning light clients is now censorship - I'll let who I like connect to my nodes tyvfm

18:10:13 BingoBoingo: Seriously, what part of "MINE!!!1111!!!" don't people understand. Fucking socialism.

18:13:34 BingoBoingo: Anyways guruvan I'm glad you stopped by. Keep coming back, it works when you work it.

18:16:55 phf: pdf is ~plaintext~ container format that lets you encode an hierarchical structure of nodes of type. there's a handful of standard node types geared towards fixed page layout. there's also a handful of types that let you embed content, i.e. inline a binary blob <</Filter/FlateDecode/Length 10>>stream....10 bytes....endstream. latex produces pdfs with intimate awareness of the format's abilities, i.e. sensible plain text nodes that

18:16:55 phf: annotate visual layout nodes with semantically meaningful components (pages, paragraphs, etc.)

18:17:48 guruvan: thanks BingoBoingo - will be around more this year :) - it's gonna be a crazy year

18:17:57 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

18:18:12 phf: but of course there's tons of companies that have some variation of "breakup my text into individual pictures of letters with precise x/y positioning, for extra points place the nodes in a random order so that tools like pdftotext barf"

18:18:34 BingoBoingo: guruvan: Seriously. Wasn't much to do in 2015 except lay groundwork for 2016

18:18:41 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366851 << abuse is no argument. mechanic can bash in skull with wrench. does not follow that wrench ought to be soft.

18:18:41 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 17:57:01; mircea_popescu: such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols".

18:19:03 mircea_popescu: and speaking of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366820 what of http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=let+me+formalize+from%3Amircea ?

18:19:03 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 17:44:07; ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this.

18:19:04 assbot: 1 results for 'let me formalize from:mircea' - #bitcoin-assets search

18:19:09 ascii_butugychag: will take my maximally-compact notations from my cold, dead hands.

18:19:10 guruvan: agreed BingoBoingo - it was a long year of much work, and much that's just been tossed by the end of it too

18:19:12 mircea_popescu: what, do i not count ? is systems theory not math ?

18:19:42 mircea_popescu: i'll tell you that i do prefer spellking out "sum x over y for i to j" than squiggling it up. heck, i have the girls read out bash commands explaining what they do.

18:19:47 mircea_popescu: and etc.

18:19:53 ascii_butugychag: philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized)

18:20:04 mircea_popescu: heh.

18:20:21 mircea_popescu: and we come back to the same "bad math" problem :

18:20:33 mircea_popescu: this "notationed" math is ALSO not math that's been mechanised.

18:20:38 mircea_popescu: it's just been shittified.

18:20:43 ascii_butugychag: and yes, e.g., maxwell's equations stated verbally might be more pleasing to a n00b

18:20:56 ascii_butugychag: but DEATH to somebody who needs to formally ~manipulate~ them.

18:21:14 ascii_butugychag: and needs to hold a MAXIMUM of thought from the page in his head

18:21:40 mircea_popescu: i never had a problem.

18:21:48 mircea_popescu: as we speak i hold all the pages i hold anyway.

18:21:56 phf: presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle

18:22:10 BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized) << Prolly hard to mechanize "Fear and Trembling"

18:22:15 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu doesn't do mathematics, this is evident. perhaps he did at one point, but not now.

18:22:33 ascii_butugychag: what other notational element, i wonder, would he have us give up? matrix ?

18:22:37 ascii_butugychag: verbalize the elements?

18:22:56 ascii_butugychag: let's have verbal quaternion ?

18:22:58 mircea_popescu: which part of what i said dja actually disagree with ?

18:23:10 ascii_butugychag: the 'notation as obscurantist claptrap'

18:23:19 mircea_popescu: is this a symbol ?

18:24:10 ascii_butugychag: which this

18:24:20 mircea_popescu: 'notation as obscurantist claptrap'

18:25:17 mircea_popescu: why not use पॢ, i wonder.

18:26:08 ascii_butugychag: because it saves no space/time.

18:26:23 ascii_butugychag: because we did not have any reason to agree on the hieroglyph.

18:26:50 BingoBoingo: https://charliehorse55.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/how-nvidia-breaks-chrome-incognito/

18:26:51 assbot: How Nvidia breaks Chrome Incognito | charliehorse55 ... ( http://bit.ly/1mR0Eji )

18:27:03 mircea_popescu: if im stuck with reading some "maximum thought" concoction i have to spell it out and read it anyway.

18:27:46 mircea_popescu: now : i do not propose that this is either better, or obligatory for anyone else. whoever can fuck whatever bottle they most like. but i also can't let stand this theory that somehow obscurantist claptrap is the only way to think.

18:27:58 mircea_popescu: one can think just fine in an alphabet, no need to play the egyptian priest.

18:28:32 ascii_butugychag: as if using longhand made text somehow magically comprehensible to all and unpriestlike.

18:28:44 ascii_butugychag: !s variety speak

18:28:44 assbot: 57 results for 'variety speak' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=variety+speak

18:28:59 mircea_popescu: alphabet has its advantages.

18:29:02 mircea_popescu: unrelated to content.

18:29:14 ascii_butugychag: also has its crippling limitations.

18:29:28 mircea_popescu: that part's still in dispute.

18:29:34 BingoBoingo: From the mines: "Page C3 of today's NYT in print: "It's a good time to be David Bowie.""

18:33:00 mircea_popescu: <phf> presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle << i do not. i do however disagree with the theory that tool is substitute sufficient.

18:33:28 mircea_popescu: yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head.

18:33:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00050697 = 2.8137 BTC [+] {2}

18:34:41 phf: ah

18:35:18 mircea_popescu: there's many things in this "thought" bag.

18:35:20 phf: that's like chinese math, transformation on formulas carried out mechanically by memorizing the book

18:35:30 mircea_popescu: it's one thing to figure something out. it's another thing to figure out what you figured out. and so on.

18:36:12 mircea_popescu: if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable.

18:36:57 mircea_popescu: i can if you wish pick a page of strings theory for you to transform into any other theoretical framweork of your choice. but might as well take a page of source from gcc and write the lisp.

18:37:09 mircea_popescu: which reminds me of our very own brave sir gabriel_laddel and his x.org thing

18:40:16 ben_vulpes: is HOSTALIASES a thing on linuxen besides ubuntu? v-dns sounds nifty, but i'd like to maintain my own entries.

18:40:54 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes technically you could only put your own pubkey in there, and still let everyone else benefit from yours

18:40:58 mircea_popescu: while you only building your own.

18:43:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, afaik hostaliases is standaerd on all linuxen, but it runs into problems with sanitation, for things that run as root

18:43:04 mircea_popescu: such as ping or w/e

18:45:40 phf: i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the boundry is though

18:46:03 mircea_popescu: importantly, the boundary must be where another begins and you end.

18:46:27 mircea_popescu: this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds.

18:46:33 mircea_popescu: i ain't building no cities to read anything, ever.

18:49:30 phf: so what do you do when not everything fits in head?

18:50:18 mircea_popescu: you restructure the abstraction tree, which is clearly broken.

18:53:24 phf: hmm

18:53:26 mircea_popescu: you'll note that variety speak or no variety speak, i can explain the whole thing or any part to anyone of any persuasion. that i may not feel like expending the effort for any random derp is true, but also not germane.

18:53:37 mircea_popescu: this, importantly, is not a feat of magic.

18:54:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27650 @ 0.00050413 = 13.9392 BTC [-] {3}

18:57:44 phf: my impression of traditional education is that when everything doesn't fit in your head, you continue cramming it, until in the flash of insight, a way of restructuring the tree comes to you. in this case notation allows for a caching mechanism. somewhere on a blackboard there's a cluster of meaning, that you no longer have in your head, because head is full, so having that cluster contain higher density of information allows for a more

18:57:44 phf: rapid load

18:57:52 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

18:57:57 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366935 << and rotor is..?

18:57:57 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 18:46:27; mircea_popescu: this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds.

18:58:29 mircea_popescu: phf to that the obvious counter is that sure, but before you've reached a point where you can actually speak of it... it's premature to speak of it ?

18:58:33 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366919 << this is uncontroversial i think

18:58:33 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 18:33:28; mircea_popescu: yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head.

18:59:10 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366925 << notation is very often a tool for pseudointellectual flimflammery, yes

18:59:10 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 18:36:12; mircea_popescu: if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable.

18:59:17 ascii_butugychag: but so is 'plain language.'

18:59:24 mircea_popescu: only to noobs.

18:59:36 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366933 << aha! DERIVE !

18:59:36 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 18:45:40; phf: i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the boundry is thoug

18:59:43 mircea_popescu: and rotor is mechanized comunion, strangely enough.

18:59:45 ascii_butugychag: and macsyma is mega-spiffy, using it as we speak even

19:00:43 phf: mircea_popescu: aaah now i see what you mean by obscurantist claptrap

19:01:05 mircea_popescu: look at lacan's "work" to truly see what i mean, and look at all the junk coming out of the usg's 3rd generation to truly know what i mean

19:01:10 mircea_popescu: actually... lemme take a screenshot here.

19:01:27 ascii_butugychag: and i notice they aren't abusing integral signs

19:01:38 ascii_butugychag: (the climatologists and 'economics' - perhaps are)

19:02:28 ascii_butugychag: but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place.

19:04:25 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0A0WRTM << there, consider that.

19:04:29 assbot: dpaste: 0A0WRTM ... ( http://bit.ly/1OXCqAm )

19:04:56 mircea_popescu: she has not actually anything to say to it. she;'s some 25 yo from nowhere who has figured out which side the butter's breaded on and is off to washington to live with alfie.

19:05:15 mircea_popescu: BUT if the symbol "activist" ran into any trouble... there's a newly minted "educator" symbol to the rescue.

19:05:17 ascii_butugychag: snorefest!

19:05:37 mircea_popescu: i don't think the postmodern symbological deluge has any sort of match or point of comparison.

19:05:38 ascii_butugychag: and yeah we have titanic dormitories full of these here

19:06:02 mircea_popescu: aha.

19:06:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00050815 = 19.3605 BTC [+] {5}

19:06:52 mircea_popescu: the only reason her bullshit sinks, however, is that i do not permit symbologistics.

19:07:25 mircea_popescu: the only reason she exists is the perhaps well intended, but also castrated inclination of educated males to go "oh, i wonder what the hyeroglypsh mean, can't be discarded out of hand"

19:07:31 ascii_butugychag: i thought it was because it was solid brick with no flotational volume ?

19:07:42 mircea_popescu: which by now is so pervasive even ged-educated nigger in the ghetto knows enough to scream "you don't know what it's like"

19:07:43 mircea_popescu: herp.

19:08:14 ascii_butugychag: nah she exists for the same reason electrical wires running to my house are warm

19:08:22 ascii_butugychag: just an unfortunate fact of thermodynamic loss

19:08:32 mircea_popescu: there's a reason unicode wars (you know, the thing with the integral ?) are mostly around "how to color figurines" now.

19:08:44 mircea_popescu: this "abstractions" thing mostly works for thine enemies.

19:09:36 mircea_popescu: you save some time, they get saved from extinction.

19:09:37 ascii_butugychag: if all of the railroads are in the hands of hitler, it does not follow that i ought to take an interest in travel by oxcart.

19:09:45 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

19:09:56 ascii_butugychag: not 'save some time.' but ABLE TO DEAL IN CONCEPTS of the level i deal in, AT ALL

19:10:00 mircea_popescu: yet all the wires being in the hand of hitler doth make you take an interest in gossipds.

19:10:29 ascii_butugychag: it isnt an oxcart

19:10:37 ascii_butugychag: but more like what i wanted out of the net to begin with.

19:10:39 mircea_popescu: well it isn't anything, so far.

19:10:44 ascii_butugychag: aha

19:10:52 mircea_popescu: i dunno who wanted "the railroads" out of reality.

19:10:54 ascii_butugychag: but since it was referred to, i assumed mircea_popescu was thinking of the idea.

19:11:29 ascii_butugychag: (on my own desk, it is more than an idea, but this is not official yet)

19:15:36 phf: as far as i understand, the point is to walk with mp to his vantage point to see something or other. for example that the railroad runs from hitlertown to the work camps. pretty sure he'll just be delighted if you invited him to your own private railroad that goes from your living quarters to your wineries.

19:16:49 ascii_butugychag: i'm entirely with iverson on this one.

19:16:59 ascii_butugychag: 'notation is worth +80 iq'

19:17:07 ascii_butugychag: in the right hands, yes

19:17:08 mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as iq.

19:17:22 mircea_popescu: in which sense, the quote is correct.

19:17:23 ascii_butugychag: tell this to the room-temp iq folks.

19:17:28 mircea_popescu: also, placebo is worth 20 hp.

19:17:56 mircea_popescu: (this has in point of fact been measured, and stands as such)

19:18:27 ascii_butugychag: when mircea_popescu calculates for own reckoning, does he use roman notation? if not, why not?

19:19:09 mircea_popescu: i have been known to

19:19:18 mircea_popescu: (in order to bother girlies.)

19:19:22 ascii_butugychag: http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/romankbd.png << oblig

19:19:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCzeNs )

19:19:43 mircea_popescu: believe it or not, latin numeral calculation IS actually possible. and they had all sorts of tricks, too

19:19:54 ascii_butugychag: many things are ~possible~

19:19:58 ascii_butugychag: !s befunge

19:19:58 assbot: 6 results for 'befunge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=befunge

19:20:21 ascii_butugychag: walking on your hands is also... possible

19:20:27 ascii_butugychag: and circus acrobats know some spiffy tricks.

19:20:34 mircea_popescu: more's the point : when you calculate for your own reckoning, do you use inches or milimeters ?

19:20:54 ascii_butugychag: usually the latter

19:20:59 mircea_popescu: aha.

19:21:04 mircea_popescu: know anyon who doesn't ? etc.

19:21:08 *: mircea_popescu will bbl.

19:21:23 ascii_butugychag: actually like most folks living in usa who do any machine work, i own two sets of everything.

19:21:26 ascii_butugychag: incl. drill bits.

19:21:36 ascii_butugychag: this is, i know, sad.

19:26:11 phf: what's wrong with a moscato anyway? :o

19:29:00 punkman: "Postel tarpit (n.) - A system that has tried so hard to accept all possible input that any change becomes backwards-incompatible"

19:32:22 punkman: wonky definition but I like the name

19:34:11 punkman: http://www.cookcomputing.com/blog/archives/000551.html

19:34:13 assbot: Cook Computing - Postel's Robustness Principle Revisited ... ( http://bit.ly/1ndJtbF )

19:34:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00051465 = 8.3373 BTC [+] {3}

19:38:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00050411 = 5.6208 BTC [-] {2}

19:46:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00051576 = 15.7307 BTC [+] {4}

19:51:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00051794 = 19.6299 BTC [+] {3}

19:57:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00051867 = 4.7199 BTC [+] {3}

20:07:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00050411 = 4.789 BTC [-] {2}

20:19:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104171 @ 0.00050296 = 52.3938 BTC [-] {6}

20:20:23 BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place. << B.. But Discriminashun, Cundishuns...

20:40:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00051198 = 1.1264 BTC [+] {2}

20:43:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29750 @ 0.00051239 = 15.2436 BTC [+] {2}

20:51:35 deedbot-: [Qntra] Zero-Conf Shenanigans Lead To Peter Todd Reddit Ban - http://qntra.net/2016/01/zero-conf-shenanigans-lead-to-peter-todd-reddit-ban/

21:00:14 thestringpuller: damn i wanted that story

21:01:53 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: You could have submitted something.

21:03:06 thestringpuller: i didn't know it was news cuz coinbase.

21:03:43 thestringpuller: next on bitcoin scammers in VC world: "Coinbase sues Peter Todd for 0.01btc"

21:06:04 shinohai: kek

21:06:15 shinohai: That sounds more like Roger Ver

21:08:31 thestringpuller: the dude who had to move to tokyo cause US wouldn't let him visit?

21:08:41 thestringpuller: "risk of becoming an illegal immigrant"

21:15:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3007 @ 0.0005135 = 1.5441 BTC [+] {2}

21:19:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66306 @ 0.00051291 = 34.009 BTC [-] {2}

21:27:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21187 @ 0.00050737 = 10.7496 BTC [-] {2}

21:49:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15263 @ 0.00050217 = 7.6646 BTC [-]

21:53:07 deedbot-: [Qntra] Earliest Possible Date For XTCoin Fork Passes - http://qntra.net/2016/01/earliest-possible-date-for-xtcoin-fork-passes/

22:08:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051011 = 3.2647 BTC [+] {2}

22:16:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17619 @ 0.00051986 = 9.1594 BTC [+] {3}

22:35:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3312 @ 0.00051763 = 1.7144 BTC [-]

22:39:58 mircea_popescu: !up raedah

23:03:39 jurov: "I need your agreement in order to republish your contributions under the MIT license. The reason for relicensing Electrum is two-fold: firstly, we want to make Electrum more attractive to developers looking to integrate lightweight Bitcoin functionality into their systems, and a more permissive license is helpful in this regard."

23:03:40 jurov: "Secondly, we want to release a new version of Electrum for mobile devices and tablets. In order to make Electrum available in various app stores (such as Microsoft's Windows Store or Apple's App Store) we cannot keep the restrictive GPL license, as publishing Electrum on some of these stores may break the terms of the GPL."

23:04:06 jurov: gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly?

23:04:07 mircea_popescu: are you going to give it ?

23:04:11 mircea_popescu: right.

23:04:24 BingoBoingo: <jurov> gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly? << Ya Rly

23:04:59 mircea_popescu: miserable move on their part, actually.

23:05:54 guruvan: you not a fan of MIT license mircea_popescu ?

23:06:20 mircea_popescu: but it seems par for the course. all the pimply faced wanna-be bill gates business majors know how to do anymore is cast out a net for suckers, wait until the rate of catch stops, and then try to spin it off and sell it.

23:06:41 mircea_popescu: so everything starts as gpl, welcomes any sucker foss head to contribute, then "progresses" to a mit license and hey, maybe apple wants to buy it!

23:06:48 jurov: probably not. but my contribution was like, 5 lines.

23:07:04 mircea_popescu: it's shameful. if you're going to prostitute yourself, at least do the world a favour and do it in istanbul, in the nude, in the dedicated quarter for ephebs

23:07:16 mircea_popescu: guruvan i like isis a lot more than i like mit.

23:07:53 mircea_popescu: and i'm one of the few guys that publicly burned the coran.

23:08:24 guruvan: well...that's just gonna mean they don't like you :-

23:09:29 mircea_popescu: they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334

23:09:30 assbot: MIT genuises with lightbulb - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zoja3F )

23:11:08 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

23:11:49 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1367071 << l0lwut?! productive??!

23:11:49 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 23:09:29; mircea_popescu: they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334

23:11:54 mircea_popescu: yes. productive.

23:12:15 ascii_butugychag: of what?

23:12:18 mircea_popescu: wake me up when your imperial/european drill bits produced a robot that routed the usg at tikrit.

23:13:23 ascii_butugychag: usg 'fought' to churn inventory and guarantee lockheed et al earmarks.

23:13:44 mircea_popescu: yaya.

23:13:46 ascii_butugychag: and to prevent ghaddafis

23:13:50 mircea_popescu: mit ain't routing anyone. ever.

23:14:21 ascii_butugychag: mit is so that smart kidz dont tmsr.

23:14:47 ascii_butugychag: they actually called me up last month..

23:16:00 jurov: "Hello, thanks for asking, but I refuse to change the license of my contribution. I cannot with clear conscience recommend a Bitcoin wallet with closed source modifications. Would you use one yourself, really?"

23:16:08 jurov: ^ mi rather mild-mannered reply

23:16:25 mircea_popescu: no but you don't understand, they're only trying to.

23:19:17 mircea_popescu: might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation.,

23:20:01 mircea_popescu: fucking emblematic of the new usa : "1. hey, we're trying to save the world, help us ; 2. hey, the rate at which new people join to help us dropped off so now we'll build an oil refinery instead, maybe shell wants to buy one!"

23:20:09 mircea_popescu: fuck you with a fucking stick, who the heck is supposed to fall for this ?

23:20:16 mircea_popescu: who. 20year olds, obviously. and... they do.

23:21:55 mircea_popescu: same fucking thing with "bitcoin dev companies", however many different groups are running this scam by now.

23:23:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00050125 = 11.5488 BTC [-] {2}

23:25:10 *: jurov scans his private #electrum log, omfg deze gems

23:25:20 jurov: <ThomasV> [20151130 17:22] Tribaal: I would not be too concerned about closed-source forks, in the case of Bitcoin software.

23:25:39 jurov: <Tribaal> [20151130 17:23] ThomasV: How so? If my fork steals your wallet, I would be pretty sure you'd mind :)

23:25:46 jurov: <ThomasV> [20151130 17:24] that's my point. I think nobody would use a closed source fork

23:26:35 jurov: i'm tired and want sleep, whoever is doing qntra, can have it

23:38:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80527 @ 0.00051023 = 41.0873 BTC [+] {2}

23:42:06 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation., << for srs jurov

23:42:32 BingoBoingo: It can wait for you to wake up

23:59:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9631 @ 0.00051024 = 4.9141 BTC [+]