home | log | search | bash |


   

Transcript for 11-07-2015, 608 lines:

00:05:03 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: shiva indeed

00:06:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00052894 = 23.9081 BTC [+]

00:18:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36550 @ 0.0005302 = 19.3788 BTC [+] {2}

00:27:49 hanbot: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/technology/ellen-pao-reddit-chief-executive-resignation.html

00:27:52 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSTHXM )

00:35:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00053278 = 24.1349 BTC [+] {2}

00:37:04 gernika: "Ellen Pao, the interim chief executive officer of Reddit, will be succeeded by Steve Huffman." << Met this guy (Steve Huffman) years ago at a YC startup school event. Had a brief discussion with him about lisp (don't recall the dialect he used).

00:48:05 mod6: asciilifeform: thakns for the latest submissions!

00:48:40 mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: so far, no one has signed any of my patches... am i to conclude that nobody reads these things? << I've read them all (except the 2 you just posted, about to read here in a moment) but I don't sign patches until release is prepared.

00:53:50 mod6: i like -verifyall as a cmdline option!

00:54:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00052592 = 11.0443 BTC [-]

00:54:54 cazalla: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/despite-hacking-teams-poor-opsec-ceo-came-from-early-days-of-pgp/

00:54:55 assbot: Despite Hacking Team’s poor opsec, CEO came from early days of PGP | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gd8mFR )

01:02:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64250 @ 0.00053004 = 34.0551 BTC [+] {3}

01:10:17 decimation: "Sanfilippo described Vincenzetti as a very liberal person interested in protecting free speech, someone who saw cryptography as "a means to protect communications." But over time, Vincenzetti's view evidently evolved to allow the security professional to found Hacking Team. "

01:10:31 decimation: gee, I wonder if cash and the fetish of power changed his mind

01:10:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114700 @ 0.00052502 = 60.2198 BTC [-] {2}

01:11:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38730 @ 0.00052081 = 20.171 BTC [-]

01:12:54 mod6: asciilifeform: testnet patch looks good at first read-through. i'll apply these to my sources bases (on top of stator + patches { dump/eat block }) and continue testing. i'll also add these to my build-with-patches guide.

01:19:06 decimation: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2533 < "These employees will bring their families to the area. There will also be an influx of welfare families fleeing the city ahead of the drug gangs and predatory police along the bus lines set up at tax payer expense so that you can save 25 cents on a dozen eggs, which requires some schlep to stock them in that upright cooler on a wage that cannot support an automobile."

01:19:08 assbot: JL: The Hoodrat Hatchery ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdanlg )

01:19:14 decimation: "These families—by law—may not have a father. Therefore, 15 years from that Wal-Mart going up, you will have a full generation of violent, rootless, fatherless youth grown up with no sense of community, responsibility, or decency, who will instead be infused with a sense of entitlement, righteous oppression, and slave class envy for you, the guy buying the house down the street as its value plummets. "

01:19:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00053341 = 8.6412 BTC [+]

01:21:01 decimation: He's describing the classic 'baptists and bootleggers' economy

01:22:29 decimation: !up Luke-Jr

01:22:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25528 @ 0.00053341 = 13.6169 BTC [+]

01:25:30 Luke-Jr:

01:25:35 trinque: it's somewhat interesting to note that wikipedia has a german page on hunchentoot, but the english one was deleted.

01:26:51 decimation: Luke did you read the logs in here about the 2hr block time window?

01:30:24 decimation: trinque: that is a bit odd

01:31:47 trinque: deleted by some guy that edits a lot of movie/tv pages, south park in particular.

01:31:50 Luke-Jr: decimation: no.

01:31:50 trinque: it's just as well.

01:32:02 trinque: happened upon that pulling up docs elsewhere

01:32:54 decimation: Luke-Jr: what is your opinion on the recent soft-fork/mining fiasco? Do you think that 950/1000 blocks constitutes any kind of 'consensus'?

01:33:11 Luke-Jr: decimation: softforks require only a majority of miners, not a consensus.

01:33:54 decimation: okay maybe I'm using the term 'soft-fork' to mean something different. What do you call 'block revision increment'?

01:34:39 Luke-Jr: 'block revision increment' has no meaning to me

01:35:46 trinque: Luke-Jr: blocks have a version, do they not?

01:36:07 decimation: err yeah 'version' not 'revision'

01:36:09 Luke-Jr: trinque: sure, but they have no particular meaning until defined

01:38:16 decimation: yes, and the meaning is used in the concensus code, which 'activates' after 950/1000 blocks with the new version are seen

01:38:28 decimation: do you think this mechanism is sound?

01:52:34 gabriel_laddel: The elephant trunk (well, close)! http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/01/today-in-robotentacle-news-4/

01:52:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjJUo9 )

01:56:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49500 @ 0.0005302 = 26.2449 BTC [-]

01:59:19 decimation: Qui tacet consentit

02:00:50 decimation: !up Luke-Jr

02:00:56 Luke-Jr: decimation: the 950/1000 block definition is specific to BIP66/v3; it's fairly sound, and the recent fiasco is basically unrelated to it

02:01:11 decimation: other than it being the very mechanism which activated it

02:01:50 Luke-Jr: except it wasn't; it just meant there were suddenly people mining invalid blocks

02:01:54 Luke-Jr: (the remaining 5%)

02:02:12 Luke-Jr: had anyone else mined an invalid block for any reason, the SPV miners would have continued those chains too

02:02:36 decimation: 'suddenly invalid'? as if nature itself rejected it?

02:02:55 decimation: 1000 blocks (1 week) seems like a fairly small period to change things

02:03:08 Luke-Jr: I didn't say "suddenly invalid"

02:03:23 Luke-Jr: 95% for 1000 blocks, while only 51% is needed

02:03:38 Luke-Jr: also, it was an ongoing migration that took months

02:04:30 decimation: I get that, but it still seems like a short period

02:04:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42750 @ 0.00052698 = 22.5284 BTC [-] {2}

02:04:48 decimation: 'is needed'? who judges that?

02:05:10 Luke-Jr: that's just the nature of softforks

02:05:25 decimation: oh, I see. handed down from the ancients who wrote 0.7?

02:06:15 decimation: the point I am driving at is that someone can mine blocks without consenting to anything w.r.t. the codebase

02:06:20 decimation: as has been quite aptly demonstrated

02:06:40 Luke-Jr: it's not a human-made decision at all, it's just how things are

02:06:58 Luke-Jr: I don't see your point. Someone can mine invalid blocks. so what?

02:07:17 decimation: because the meaning of 'invalid' was changed

02:08:02 decimation: before 0.7 there was no code that 'gathered consensus'

02:08:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29863 @ 0.00052433 = 15.6581 BTC [-] {2}

02:09:10 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2015#1197137 << And how did this turn out?

02:09:10 assbot: Logged on 10-07-2015 20:46:57; trinque: not bad, hunchentootin' today

02:09:24 Luke-Jr: decimation: it was still possible

02:09:57 Luke-Jr: also there was technically the P2SH code before 0.7 IIRC

02:10:18 trinque: gabriel_laddel: oh, lovely. write a handler, c-x c-k, try it out, repeat

02:10:58 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I heard you just got hyperspec.el setup - do you have SLIME presentations enabled?

02:11:11 trinque: hm, maybe not

02:11:26 trinque: what would that do?

02:11:38 gabriel_laddel: you can "inspect" objects returned at the repl by clicking on them

02:11:45 gabriel_laddel: modify their state etc

02:11:51 gabriel_laddel: via the slime-inspector

02:11:55 gabriel_laddel: which you've used?

02:12:00 trinque: #<HUNCHENSOCKET:WEBSOCKET-ACCEPTOR (host *, port 8081)>

02:12:03 trinque: yep

02:12:47 gabriel_laddel: o nice, then you've pretty much the best of what emacs has to offer for CL development.

02:13:08 trinque: I am still new enough to this to be having a fantastic time.

02:13:23 trinque: though, as it stays out of the goddamn way of the task of programming, I could see never tiring of it

02:13:25 gabriel_laddel: me too

02:13:52 gabriel_laddel: I got serial ports comms working in a *single line* of cl today.

02:13:55 gabriel_laddel: yay

02:14:09 gabriel_laddel: (well, a single line setup + other crud)

02:16:19 trinque: people who prefer more complicated and disorderly systems seem to think there's some virtue in being able to cram it all into the head (C++...)

02:16:37 trinque: doesn't seem like they then consider whether they have any cranial space left for their problem

02:16:43 gabriel_laddel: yep

02:17:14 trinque: saw you found work writing cl, pretty cool

02:17:21 gabriel_laddel: This is my experience. The C++/.NET code for the device I was communicating with today - 250 lines of code to do what my single line does.

02:17:45 Luke-Jr: k, highlight me if there's more

02:17:46 gabriel_laddel: ^^ I seem to be good at making business people feel confident / happy with me.

02:17:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00052873 = 12.8746 BTC [+] {2}

02:18:07 gabriel_laddel: I'm noodling around with the idea of my hunting down contracts for CL people

02:18:12 gabriel_laddel: sort of like a recruiter

02:18:36 decimation: Luke-Jr: I need to do more research, thank you for your candor.

02:18:36 gabriel_laddel: But perhaps handling some of the business side of things + gnarly technical tasks.

02:19:09 trinque: depending on the type of consulting, it may be more or less up to you how to actually implement whatever's called for

02:19:10 Luke-Jr: decimation: this may be of interested to you; it is a WIP https://gist.github.com/sipa/bf69659f43e763540550

02:19:11 assbot: Version bits BIP ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjMqKU )

02:19:40 gabriel_laddel: trinque: in this particular they wanted something that *actually works*

02:19:56 trinque: heh!

02:20:01 gabriel_laddel: a surprising amount of people simply want subordinates to order around

02:20:28 gabriel_laddel: at least, this is what I've seen so far

02:20:38 Luke-Jr: decimation: there is also https://github.com/jtimon/bips/blob/bip-forks/bip-forks.org , but IIRC it had some problems

02:20:39 assbot: bips/bip-forks.org at bip-forks · jtimon/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjMzhF )

02:21:38 gabriel_laddel: trinque: are you just playing around with hunchentoot, or writing a production system?

02:21:43 trinque: production system

02:21:47 trinque: api thing that pokes a db

02:22:23 gabriel_laddel: And you talk to the thing in CL?

02:22:51 trinque: got something out in the world that runs cl, talks to a web api

02:22:56 trinque: this will be the first server side component

02:23:22 trinque: to replace: https://github.com/begriffs/postgrest which I do not like

02:23:23 assbot: begriffs/postgrest · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjMQRv )

02:23:51 trinque: haven't used the latter with anything mission critical; it was a matter of evaluating it

02:23:58 trinque: but that's the thing I'm rewriting... "pgtoot"

02:24:07 decimation: Luke-Jr: this whole line of action strikes me as backwards. why not produce a spec before forcing changes from the de-facto standard?

02:24:37 gabriel_laddel: so you have a few function calls that diddle the db and you're tying those to routes?

02:24:43 trinque: yep

02:24:47 Luke-Jr: decimation: what? BIP 66 has been a spec since January

02:25:14 decimation: I mean a spec that desribes the behaviour of the entire codebase

02:25:38 gabriel_laddel: I wish someone would automate this already. I write the functions, then pass them into `export-functions' which walks the program, generates POST routes for all of them.

02:25:39 Luke-Jr: decimation: because people might interpret it as a spec

02:25:48 trinque: gabriel_laddel: that is precisely what I'm doing

02:25:49 decimation: ???

02:25:53 gabriel_laddel: trinque: !

02:25:56 trinque: I've written this in python already

02:26:13 trinque: postgrest looked like it might have a clue early on

02:26:18 trinque: becoming a features katamari shitshow

02:26:24 Luke-Jr: decimation: Bitcoin's rules by nature are defined by the actual software people are using. If a "spec" disagrees with those de facto rules, the "spec" is wrong.

02:26:47 trinque: gabriel_laddel: every web-app ever is just a matter of bolting some table or view to a ui component

02:26:57 trinque: and then letting that component know when the data in question changes

02:26:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26560 @ 0.00052016 = 13.8154 BTC [-] {2}

02:27:00 gabriel_laddel: yeah

02:27:05 gabriel_laddel: dancing around presentations

02:27:07 gabriel_laddel: forever

02:27:14 Luke-Jr: decimation: this is why Bitcoin Core 0.8.0's bug was a bug in 0.8.0 and not the (commonly used) older versions

02:28:03 decimation: Luke-Jr: you see how this has the convinent side-effect of ceding complete authority over 'bitcoin' to the 'bitcoin core' committers?

02:28:29 Luke-Jr: decimation: no, it is to the users - Bitcoin Core 0.8.0 changed the rules, but was not adopted as the new protocol, so it was wrong

02:29:06 Luke-Jr: (it's ironic but true that Mike Hearn has written two changes in Bitcoin Core, and both of them introduced serious bugs..)

02:29:57 mod6: !b 1

02:29:58 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0E6JFXW.txt )

02:30:20 Luke-Jr: :<

02:30:29 Luke-Jr: I didn't really want to be quoted on that

02:30:35 gabriel_laddel: http://wcp.sdf-eu.org/software/

02:30:36 assbot: Software bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjNuOZ )

02:30:53 gabriel_laddel: BINGE is a FFI generator for Common Lisp. It parses C source files (header or code, it doesn't mind) and spits out a FFI for your Lisp system of choice. Functions, global variables, types and symbolic constants can be extracted just naming them. Its design is modular so that adding a new FFI API is a matter of few hours. Back-ends for SBCL, CMUCL, LispWorks, UFFI and CLISP are provided.

02:30:54 gabriel_laddel: ...

02:30:56 gabriel_laddel: please work

02:31:11 trinque: "binge" << lol

02:31:14 trinque: that's pretty good

02:36:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23649 @ 0.00051962 = 12.2885 BTC [-]

02:36:22 mats: !rate moneycat 1 new guy

02:36:22 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7843dc19ee725420

02:39:34 mats: !v assbot:mats.rate.moneycat.1:801ec5c77ea271e6dad662052dfc4363a1843c6cc5bc53dc6609361c20777a5

02:39:34 assbot: Invalid verfication string.

02:39:37 mats: gah

02:40:47 mats: !v assbot:mats.rate.moneycat.1:801ec5c77ea271e6dad662052dfc4363a1843c6cc5bc53dcd6609361c20777a5

02:40:47 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for moneycat with note: new guy

02:47:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6659 @ 0.00053341 = 3.552 BTC [+]

02:48:43 mats: ;;bc,24hprc

02:48:44 gribble: 284.73

02:53:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61700 @ 0.00052739 = 32.54 BTC [-]

02:55:13 williamdunne: !up Luke-Jr

02:55:33 williamdunne: Luke-Jr: In fairness, the fact that this is a public logged channel is made quite clear

02:55:42 Luke-Jr: sure

03:07:14 mats: https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2015-July/000040.html

03:07:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mlz98e )

03:08:08 mats: yet another mitm bug

03:08:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10980 @ 0.00052216 = 5.7333 BTC [-] {2}

03:09:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9405 @ 0.00051075 = 4.8036 BTC [-]

03:13:39 mats: "Every person given a government background check for the last 15 years was probably affected, the Office of Personnel Management said in announcing the results of a forensic investigation of the episode, whose existence was known but not its sweeping toll." << lol, fuck. i'm in this db.

03:13:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00053341 = 2.3737 BTC [+]

03:14:11 ag3nt_zer0: Wonder if anyone can help ... Am I missing a step when trying to rate somebody? do I have to do something beyond "!rate" command? I ask because I do not see my rating as having appeared to the recipients via BTC Alpha... should I see it or is my rating just not appearing amongst the others because I am not a trusted relationship at this point?

03:14:30 mats: btcalpha updates once a day, ag3nt_zer0

03:16:13 ag3nt_zer0: mats: it's been a couple days

03:17:08 ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-07-2015#1193125 is that all I was supposed to do?

03:17:08 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 06:22:31; ag3nt_zer0: !rate shinohai 1 great help to noob

03:17:19 mats: did you decrypt the otp and send it to assbot?

03:17:33 ag3nt_zer0: nope haha

03:18:15 mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197460 << !v <decrypted otp string>

03:18:15 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 02:40:47; mats: !v assbot:mats.rate.moneycat.1:801ec5c77ea271e6dad662052dfc4363a1843c6cc5bc53dcd6609361c20777a5

03:21:50 ag3nt_zer0: how long before an otp expires?

03:23:18 gabriel_laddel: trinque: fyi `trace' doesn't trace across threads in mcclim unless you use M-x slime-trace-dialog

03:23:36 ag3nt_zer0: i mean how long before otp link expires... those arent working from the other day

03:23:51 mats: no idea

03:24:00 ag3nt_zer0: cool thx

03:24:27 ag3nt_zer0: try this again

03:24:31 ag3nt_zer0: !rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob

03:26:00 mats: extraneous space prepended there

03:27:39 ag3nt_zer0: !rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob

03:27:39 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/70fced5bf301b100

03:27:49 ag3nt_zer0: haha

03:30:09 ag3nt_zer0: !v assbot:ag3nt_zer0.rate.trinque.1:6cfc2b3e5683499ec7116014e0dccbd14c25d77d8ed9adc92f6df57d4ea8f7f8

03:30:09 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for trinque with note: very helpful to noob

03:31:54 ag3nt_zer0: ;;rate shinohai 1 great assist to newb

03:31:54 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

03:32:18 ag3nt_zer0: !rate shinohai 1 great assist to newb

03:32:18 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7c23d2b18b359e01

03:33:25 ag3nt_zer0: !v assbot:ag3nt_zer0.rate.shinohai.1:eecbbcd8e1da919dc77a78e03fc9ef6eb780d132a98b002b39c375244bf75a83

03:33:25 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for shinohai with note: great assist to newb

03:33:59 ag3nt_zer0: mats: thanks

03:34:39 mats: np. fwiw, you can talk to assbot in PM

03:34:53 ag3nt_zer0: oh ok thx

03:35:08 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178327 << What is the 'lisp' of mathematics?

03:35:08 assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 21:39:21; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178148 << will add to this. in every single field i dive into, i find these 'lisps' - i.e., the ~actual~ state-of-the-art buried under piles of shit strategically crapped out by one, two, more generations of mediocrities

03:36:15 gabriel_laddel: I'd love to have a list of lisps all fields you've dived into if possible.

03:37:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31621 @ 0.00051075 = 16.1504 BTC [-]

03:42:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35130 @ 0.00052178 = 18.3301 BTC [+]

03:44:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5770 @ 0.00052178 = 3.0107 BTC [+]

03:44:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, apparently no one signs them.

03:45:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34930 @ 0.00053341 = 18.632 BTC [+]

03:49:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197311 << all this meta comentatory bs. "what has luigi's wive said about giovanni's girlfriend ? what has the mother of the coach's sister said about what the wife said about the girlfriend ? what are people saying about what people said about what was said about some talks some said they had at some point regarding what was said earlier ?"

03:49:19 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 01:10:17; decimation: "Sanfilippo described Vincenzetti as a very liberal person interested in protecting free speech, someone who saw cryptography as "a means to protect communications." But over time, Vincenzetti's view evidently evolved to allow the security professional to found Hacking Team. "

03:49:31 mircea_popescu: italian daytime tv conquered the fucking world.

03:49:48 decimation: heh yeah pretty much

03:50:19 decimation: I think most 'adults' in the west would prefer to live in a tv program

03:50:30 decimation: and/or imagine that they would be 'good' in one

03:50:31 mircea_popescu: i don't even give a shit who this vincenzetti derp is. why the fuck would i now care about a sanfilippo derp

03:51:29 cazalla: meh i just saw pgp in the headline, read it and thought perhaps might appeal to others here

03:51:48 mircea_popescu: equires some schlep << why do people insist to use words in languages they don't speak.

03:51:56 mircea_popescu: it's almost as bad as sleeping with women you don't own.

03:52:17 decimation: mircea_popescu: 90% of modern 'journalism' is 'the story behind the story behind the story', most of which is bullshit

03:52:31 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:55:12 *: mircea_popescu skips the Luke-Jr, vexual etc lines in the logs. not sure why people keep feeding the weird, but anway.

03:56:51 decimation: I was curious about the particular census mechanism, and the degree of support amoung 'bitcoin core' 'devs'

03:57:39 mircea_popescu: might as well ask whats his face "bitcoin godfather" about gaming or keiser's ho whatever her name was about "telejournalism"

03:58:40 decimation: it would make great foddler for journalism, his answers

03:59:15 mircea_popescu: just... you know, go ask reddit what it thinks on reddit, and the power rangers on #power-rangers or wherever the fuck they hang out these days.

03:59:42 mircea_popescu: i especially do not appreciate the b-a equivalent of a convicted felon being treated as he may have an opinion on matters.

03:59:49 mircea_popescu: the man lied. publicly. for profit.

03:59:53 mircea_popescu: why entertain such scum ?

04:00:00 decimation: luke-jr?

04:00:03 mircea_popescu: yes luke-jr

04:02:16 mircea_popescu: an entire den of fraudsters and con men they got going there, not like phantomcircuit's anyone else than the bitcoinica thief etc.

04:06:35 mircea_popescu: " As Wal-Mart gets the lion?s share of food stamp transfers [EBT cash and food] than this operation amounts to a 19th century Appalachian coal mine with its own company store, with over half of the employees spending most?or even more than?their salary at the Wal-Mart register, literally a captive market and labor force in one."

04:06:48 mircea_popescu: this is actually an excellent point - walmart is not a shop, it's a shit circuit.

04:07:58 decimation: it's been well covered in the us media that walmart 'arbitrages' usg benefits/slaves into profit

04:09:33 decimation: mr. lafound makes a novel point (to me) that the rich folk (think jwz) are equally complict, thinking that saving $0.25 on eggs at walmart is purely neutral

04:11:08 mircea_popescu: i dun think this is much of a novel point. fundamental point. "be the change you wish to see" etc.

04:14:11 hanbot: people are going to be sucked into convenience > quality (sanity) so long as they can't appreciate what quality is. i had a visitor in romania who had never seen good egg yolks, thought they were "suspicious"

04:14:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00053341 = 27.8973 BTC [+]

04:15:40 decimation: in the us, to be against 'walmart profits' is to be labeled a socialist. it's rarely the case that someone points out the degree to which walmart profits are dependent on socialism themselves

04:17:33 hanbot: right, because why proclaim something that might lead to having to do more work

04:22:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64423 @ 0.00051817 = 33.3821 BTC [-] {2}

04:44:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51409 @ 0.00052203 = 26.837 BTC [+] {2}

05:14:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9647 @ 0.00052634 = 5.0776 BTC [+]

05:36:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00051761 = 24.3277 BTC [-]

05:51:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00051072 = 32.5329 BTC [-] {3}

06:03:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43819 @ 0.00051202 = 22.4362 BTC [+]

06:06:44 Naphex: 04:14 <+hanbot> people are going to be sucked into convenience > quality (sanity) so long as they can't appreciate what quality is. i had a visitor in romania who had never seen good egg yolks, thought they were "suspicious <- Happens pretty often

06:07:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00051063 = 35.0037 BTC [-]

06:11:20 punkman: how do you decide a good egg yolk?

06:14:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27092 @ 0.00051063 = 13.834 BTC [-]

06:22:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31350 @ 0.00050955 = 15.9744 BTC [-] {2}

06:23:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56194 @ 0.00051202 = 28.7725 BTC [+]

06:38:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00051159 = 26.1422 BTC [-]

07:03:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36402 @ 0.00051292 = 18.6713 BTC [+] {3}

07:20:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00051618 = 16.3113 BTC [+]

07:28:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37214 @ 0.00050521 = 18.8009 BTC [-]

07:44:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00050406 = 28.4794 BTC [-] {2}

07:48:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00051621 = 19.2546 BTC [+] {2}

07:56:06 jurov: punkman: it has vivid yellow color

07:56:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00052065 = 22.3359 BTC [+] {2}

07:56:30 jurov: and when used as ingredients, it colors the dough or whatever, too

08:00:10 punkman: jurov, people like the darker orange yolks here

08:00:41 punkman: yellow yolk means it's probably eating corn

08:00:54 jurov: they can be orange, too, no prob... just the color is weak

08:01:23 cazalla: whites not runny either!

08:01:49 jurov: yolk racism?

08:03:03 punkman: I mostly care about whether the owner of the chickens is in wot rather than colour

08:04:46 jurov: oh, if you scarcely have eggs from supermarket, then it's hard to explain, either :)

08:06:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37850 @ 0.00052629 = 19.9201 BTC [+] {2}

08:06:56 cazalla: miss my chickens, rip in peace http://i.imgur.com/5UdH5PC.png gonna get some new ones in the spring

08:06:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1pJBM )

08:07:02 punkman: http://aspajournal.it/index.php/ijas/article/viewFile/1745/html_9/8434

08:07:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1pKFI )

08:07:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00050847 = 8.6694 BTC [-]

08:13:11 jurov: cazalla what happened to them?

08:13:16 cazalla: fox

08:13:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70550 @ 0.00050847 = 35.8726 BTC [-]

08:13:46 cazalla: or inattentive chicken shepherd

08:17:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212391 @ 0.0005306 = 112.6947 BTC [+] {3}

08:24:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22280 @ 0.00050398 = 11.2287 BTC [-] {2}

09:05:13 jurov: http://www.boredpanda.com/dead-raccoon-memorial-shrine-mourning-deadraccoonto-toronto/ canada :)

09:05:15 assbot: People In Toronto Made Memorial For Dead Raccoon After City Forgot To Pick It Up For 12 Hrs | Bored Panda ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVJ5Wh )

09:09:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87400 @ 0.00050268 = 43.9342 BTC [-] {5}

09:13:52 shinohai: lol

09:31:46 jurov: https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150710-genetic-alphabet/ heh, "shoulda switch DNA to ternary"

09:31:48 assbot: New Letters Added to the Genetic Alphabet | Quanta Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVLmks )

09:39:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00051275 = 16.5875 BTC [+]

09:47:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19289 @ 0.00051275 = 9.8904 BTC [+]

10:02:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29320 @ 0.00051536 = 15.1104 BTC [+] {2}

10:09:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00053341 = 1.3069 BTC [+]

10:15:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00053341 = 30.7778 BTC [+]

10:26:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43650 @ 0.00053303 = 23.2668 BTC [-] {2}

10:32:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46032 @ 0.00053391 = 24.5769 BTC [+] {2}

10:33:15 shinohai: censorship >>>> https://coincafe.com/special_message.php

10:33:16 assbot: Backpage.com policy | CoinCafe.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HkyFvD )

10:43:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60900 @ 0.00053489 = 32.5748 BTC [+] {2}

11:02:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101148 @ 0.00052037 = 52.6344 BTC [-] {3}

11:09:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9835 @ 0.00049302 = 4.8489 BTC [-]

11:24:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00053665 = 12.1283 BTC [+]

11:31:19 lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Andreas Heimann ; ) http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C62FFD2679BE0909B2C7D7FB2356995AF9650D3E280600D31534FDB9A7F170A3#A325D14C8F2FC51D65A4157508CD1E626380D8E9F340A33F11BD25BF1936DCCF

11:31:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GZYxN9 )

11:32:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64550 @ 0.00053665 = 34.6408 BTC [+]

11:39:51 kakobrekla: Andreas Heimann

11:39:51 kakobrekla: @ACHeimann

11:39:51 kakobrekla: ist Journalist in Berlin, leitet den dpa-Themendienst und twittert hier privat vor allem zu Medienthemen.

11:41:25 kakobrekla: imma guess

11:45:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97850 @ 0.00053673 = 52.519 BTC [+] {4}

11:49:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00050946 = 20.1237 BTC [-] {2}

12:13:16 mats: heh, former US AG Holder went back to Covington & Burling

12:13:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71700 @ 0.00053741 = 38.5323 BTC [+] {2}

12:17:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00053765 = 9.0863 BTC [+]

12:22:29 shinohai: https://np.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/3cuvhz/its_ok_folks_lets_regroup/

12:22:31 assbot: It's ok folks, let's regroup : litecoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1gtV4QB )

12:22:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35008 @ 0.00053765 = 18.8221 BTC [+]

12:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37000 @ 0.00053765 = 19.8931 BTC [+]

12:45:57 funkenstein_: "Benner has lofty goals for his synthetic molecules. He wants to create an alternative genetic system in which proteins [] are unnecessary" <-- ??

12:48:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00052014 = 19.9994 BTC [-] {2}

12:55:39 *: funkenstein_ ponders total silence surrounding continued phuctoring

13:09:08 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197401 <-- this is a good start but version numbers should also include P and Z

13:09:08 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 02:19:10; Luke-Jr: decimation: this may be of interested to you; it is a WIP https://gist.github.com/sipa/bf69659f43e763540550

13:10:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00051235 = 15.9597 BTC [-] {3}

13:10:41 funkenstein_: !up SuchWow

13:18:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51500 @ 0.00052153 = 26.8588 BTC [+]

13:21:27 shinohai: wow

13:35:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40510 @ 0.00053765 = 21.7802 BTC [+]

13:41:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00053765 = 18.9253 BTC [+]

13:45:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00053788 = 25.3879 BTC [+] {2}

14:23:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116600 @ 0.00054029 = 62.9978 BTC [+] {2}

14:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00054156 = 17.2216 BTC [+]

14:37:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13358 @ 0.00054156 = 7.2342 BTC [+]

14:52:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00053443 = 17.369 BTC [-] {2}

15:04:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00054156 = 15.0012 BTC [+]

15:09:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51750 @ 0.00054225 = 28.0614 BTC [+] {2}

15:17:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26132 @ 0.00054229 = 14.1711 BTC [+]

15:20:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34968 @ 0.00054229 = 18.9628 BTC [+]

15:23:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28151 @ 0.00052827 = 14.8713 BTC [-] {2}

15:44:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123000 @ 0.00050419 = 62.0154 BTC [-] {5}

15:56:12 mircea_popescu: ;;seen diametric

15:56:14 gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 49 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <diametric> possible to get a sample capture?

15:57:05 mircea_popescu: diametric you're getting ddos'd again, and apparently it's ever more impressive. you want a filter in front of this thing or what.

15:58:12 mircea_popescu: which reminds me, shinohai you ever got email ?

16:00:00 shinohai: nope never got another email :/

16:00:39 shinohai: plus i only have one good wallet and it broke, so i am 34 weeks behind xD

16:01:36 mircea_popescu: lol k

16:02:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197303 << is he a bit of an autist ?

16:02:30 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 00:37:04; gernika: "Ellen Pao, the interim chief executive officer of Reddit, will be succeeded by Steve Huffman." << Met this guy (Steve Huffman) years ago at a YC startup school event. Had a brief discussion with him about lisp (don't recall the dialect he used).

16:04:54 mircea_popescu: in any case reddit's a chapter right out of the lolbook of failmanagement, you get an interim ceo to ease the transition to... one of the old founders ? that board is so stupid it can sit with the worst of 'em, http://fraudsters.com/2010/cel-mai-prost-board-din-istorie/ and so on.

16:04:55 assbot: Cel mai prost Board din istorie on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0QyCY )

16:14:14 gernika: mircea_popescu no he seemed to make eye-contact, connect, etc. Aaron Schwartz, who I met at a similar such party (possibly even the same one) struck me as being much more of an autist.

16:15:12 mircea_popescu: aha

16:17:45 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo for your qind qntsideration : http://dpaste.com/3FCEZ41.txt

16:17:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0R83o )

16:17:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:19:29 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla and yours ! http://dpaste.com/2W2J79K.txt

16:19:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0RdnG )

16:19:30 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:19:56 mircea_popescu: lol you got one for each ?

16:20:08 pete_dushenski: lol no ?

16:20:21 mircea_popescu: ah k

16:20:21 pete_dushenski: same article, encrypted to each of their keys

16:20:24 pete_dushenski: usual protocol

16:20:40 mircea_popescu: you knoiw you can just do gpg --encrypt --armor -r one -r theother righjt ?

16:21:01 pete_dushenski: this is true.

16:21:20 pete_dushenski: dunno why i'm in the habit of giving them each one.

16:21:42 pete_dushenski: presents are moar speshul when they're just for you !

16:22:36 mircea_popescu: and in other news : eulora is currently being practically re-written, because fucking idiots and their fucktarded assumptions. "oh, nobody could POSSIBLY ever want an int other than ~16!!!!~ bit". as a result, the skill display in game behaves eratically. as a result, all places that use ints and were apparently not upgraded to 32 bit because too much fucking work are now getting redefined as 64 bits.

16:22:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42200 @ 0.00050081 = 21.1342 BTC [-]

16:22:48 mircea_popescu: because it's apparently still 1959 and nobody came up with a "machine length" int yet.

16:23:46 pete_dushenski: lame.

16:24:22 pete_dushenski: eulora thrills > mpoe thrills eh

16:24:31 pete_dushenski: no one rewriting mpoe anytime soon

16:25:18 mircea_popescu: myeah.

16:27:12 pete_dushenski: so eta on new eulora ?

16:27:45 mircea_popescu: it's sitll going as it is, just the experience filling bar of skills is fucked up

16:27:53 mircea_popescu: minor visual glitch

16:28:41 pete_dushenski: ah cool beans

16:31:39 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

16:31:40 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 293.45, Best ask: 293.49, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 293.49, 24 hour volume: 55886.98510595, 24 hour low: 282.7, 24 hour high: 299.56, 24 hour vwap: None

16:32:07 pete_dushenski: *that* close to 300

16:37:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00051186 = 15.3558 BTC [+]

16:47:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14049 @ 0.00051186 = 7.1911 BTC [+]

16:48:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2175 @ 0.00052321 = 1.138 BTC [+]

17:05:57 pete_dushenski: !up ascii_modem

17:06:16 ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197674 << int

17:06:16 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 16:22:48; mircea_popescu: because it's apparently still 1959 and nobody came up with a "machine length" int yet.

17:07:18 ascii_modem: long int

17:09:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69550 @ 0.00051124 = 35.5567 BTC [-] {2}

17:36:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14527 @ 0.00050133 = 7.2828 BTC [-] {2}

17:37:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23541 @ 0.00049944 = 11.7573 BTC [-] {3}

18:09:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52650 @ 0.00051577 = 27.1553 BTC [+]

18:14:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31925 @ 0.00051614 = 16.4778 BTC [+] {2}

18:23:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52845 @ 0.00051204 = 27.0588 BTC [-] {2}

18:49:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11924 @ 0.00051141 = 6.0981 BTC [-]

18:59:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67850 @ 0.00050823 = 34.4834 BTC [-] {3}

19:02:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51750 @ 0.00050435 = 26.1001 BTC [-] {2}

19:20:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38461 @ 0.00051887 = 19.9563 BTC [+] {3}

19:27:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110500 @ 0.0005224 = 57.7252 BTC [+] {2}

19:32:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00051176 = 10.4911 BTC [-]

19:38:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00051176 = 12.7172 BTC [-]

19:49:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64606 @ 0.0005236 = 33.8277 BTC [+] {2}

19:50:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2394 @ 0.0005365 = 1.2844 BTC [+] {2}

20:07:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50264 @ 0.00053656 = 26.9697 BTC [+] {2}

20:10:47 punkman: heh "Finnish media reports that Germany, Holland, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia want "temporary" #Grexit"

20:16:25 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2015#1196949 << 1 Corinthians 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

20:16:25 assbot: Logged on 10-07-2015 19:33:32; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i still have no idea why anyone'd get married, but then again i'm weird like that.

20:17:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00053657 = 11.6972 BTC [+]

20:19:34 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2015#1196970 << leg is different from boobs because child born of the former can still be expected to look similar to parents while child of latter may not

20:19:34 assbot: Logged on 10-07-2015 19:37:48; mircea_popescu: and especially nonsensical given that there's an exactly just as silly, but opposite direction social convention : people going around with a prosthetic leg are apparently GREAT!11

20:21:37 danielpbarron: ;;isitup search.bitcoin-assets.com

20:21:37 gribble: Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.

20:21:44 danielpbarron: ;;isdown search.bitcoin-assets.com

20:21:44 gribble: Error: "isdown" is not a valid command.

20:21:53 danielpbarron: ;;isup search.bitcoin-assets.com

20:21:57 gribble: search.bitcoin-assets.com is down

20:22:03 jurov: danielpbarron: did jesus set a limit for # of wives?

20:22:27 danielpbarron: no, but we know from Solomon that there is an upward bound that isn't specified

20:23:11 danielpbarron: !s Jian Feng

20:24:12 assbot: : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Jian+Feng

20:24:20 jurov: solomon, the first C programmer

20:25:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00053657 = 4.6413 BTC [+]

20:25:27 danielpbarron: Deuteronomy 17:16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' 17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

20:25:50 danielpbarron: http://www.atruechurch.info/polygamy.html >> As for a king who breached Deuteronomy 17:17, Solomon is the classic example. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3). Yet, even though Solomon obviously multiplied wives to himself, the Lord condemns Solomon, in particular, for his marriage of foreign women (1 Kings 11:1-2; Deuteronomy 7:1-4) and the resultant idolatry (1 Kings 11:4).

20:25:51 assbot: A True Church - Polygamy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hv0PTP )

20:37:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8523 @ 0.00052006 = 4.4325 BTC [-]

20:41:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00053657 = 6.8681 BTC [+]

20:57:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00053657 = 20.0141 BTC [+]

21:02:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16659 @ 0.000536 = 8.9292 BTC [-]

21:07:24 scoopbot_revived: Pirate Bay Four Acquitted Of Charges http://qntra.net/2015/07/pirate-bay-four-acquitted-of-charges/

21:18:27 trinque: am I noticing that the price of mpex trends upward before the price of bitcoin does?

21:18:27 scoopbot_revived: Mining Difficulty Reaches New High http://qntra.net/2015/07/mining-difficulty-reaches-new-high/

21:18:31 trinque: I'd like to see that graph

21:18:36 *: trinque goes to check out btcalpha

21:19:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13341 @ 0.00052006 = 6.9381 BTC [-]

21:20:07 mats: dun think there's any correlation

21:22:25 trinque: maybe not

21:29:09 trinque: gabriel_laddel: got a recommendation on something that'll bust out docs for *any* symbol?

21:29:20 trinque: I want hyperspec.el for errethang

21:30:12 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197651 <<< does not appear he will ban /r/coontown https://archive.is/UE0n9 meanwhile coontown banned me from their irc channel

21:30:12 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 16:02:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197303 << is he a bit of an autist ?

21:30:13 assbot: airwx comments on I am Steve Huffman, the new CEO of reddit. AMA. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYrH4T )

21:31:53 trinque: maybe just getting eldoc to barf out the docstring for the thing at point would suffice

21:36:51 gabriel_laddel: trinque: M-x slime-describe-symbol

21:37:41 trinque: yeah, I basically want that guy jammed into eldoc

21:37:51 gabriel_laddel: trinque: do you know elisp?

21:37:57 trinque: I can fart around in it

21:38:09 gabriel_laddel: trinque: alright, gimme a minute and I'll write it for ya

21:38:20 trinque: cool!

21:38:54 gabriel_laddel: ftr, no one should have to learn elisp. it is a shit language.

21:47:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00052345 = 15.2324 BTC [+]

21:51:26 gabriel_laddel: trinque: wait, is this for CL or elisp

21:51:30 gabriel_laddel: or both

21:51:45 trinque: CL

21:51:47 trinque: but both sure

21:52:03 gabriel_laddel: well, doing both is sorta a PITA, so I'll prolly decline that

21:52:08 trinque: heh, np

21:52:16 trinque: don't even have to do the former unless you want to

21:52:18 gabriel_laddel: but there already exists a printer for the value of the symbol at point

21:52:28 gabriel_laddel: so I just have to find that, modify the format string

21:52:29 gabriel_laddel: the end

21:52:33 trinque: I'll take all the CL prosthetics I can get

21:53:10 gabriel_laddel: trinque: have you been using the CLIM listener in your CL hacking?

21:53:39 trinque: I haven't really, other than with the intent to learn about CLIM

21:53:55 trinque: current thing I'm hacking on is that api server guy

21:54:02 trinque: I'm open to hearing how I'd use CLIM there

21:54:26 gabriel_laddel: I can't speak to that, but using the class browser is a great boon to CL development.

21:54:41 gabriel_laddel: I ended up binding it to f8, as was tired of pulling it up all the time.

21:55:05 trinque: ah ok; yeah, paging through the hyperspec is my current method of discovering new functions to use

21:55:27 trinque: I'll try your suggestion there

21:56:03 gabriel_laddel: trinque: try `apropos' and note that you can display all generic functions for a class using the left click.

21:58:00 phf: gabriel_laddel: have you been using mcclim for day to day hacking? last time i tried it, it was very slow. but then it was on a ppc machine, so maybe moore's law took care of that

21:59:06 gabriel_laddel: phf: My dashboard (which I use every day) is CLIM. I edit text in CLIMACS from time to time, use the listener to browse classes.

21:59:23 gabriel_laddel: earlier I started to modify the address book to handle my rolodex

21:59:32 gabriel_laddel: also, I'm using it at work

21:59:34 gabriel_laddel: :/

21:59:35 gabriel_laddel: so yet?

21:59:38 gabriel_laddel: *yes?

22:01:16 phf: hmm, might be worth giving it a try then. i wrote some code with clim a while back, but that was using lispworks

22:01:42 gabriel_laddel: phf: the whole "backends" thing (which lispworks uses) is retarded.

22:01:49 gabriel_laddel: the only way to go is all lisp

22:01:57 gabriel_laddel: CLX+stumpwm+CLIM

22:02:12 gabriel_laddel: perhaps someone will take the time to hack the "zen" X server into this stack

22:04:18 trinque: I'll be fine seeing someone stick a chisel in the ear of emacs, breaking it into the several pieces it should've been

22:04:32 phf: lispworks clim is a life support for legacy systems, and as such their technical decisions have merit

22:04:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31586 @ 0.00051847 = 16.3764 BTC [-] {2}

22:05:28 trinque: gabriel_laddel: seems the further down the stack lisp might reach, the more the argument that it should be coming from the bottom up applies

22:05:54 gabriel_laddel: trinque: sure.

22:06:06 gabriel_laddel: phf: yeah, sure. but being a hospice cog isn't fun

22:06:47 gabriel_laddel: trinque: fundamentally the only way I see this happening is by getting a great prince to "see" why it is one would like such a thing.

22:06:57 gabriel_laddel: hence, I'm pushing for lispy demos everywhere

22:07:08 gabriel_laddel: so they go back to windows and rage

22:07:12 trinque: gabriel_laddel: indeed, I "see what you did there" so to speak

22:07:39 gabriel_laddel: I'd never phrase it like that, but sure.

22:07:49 gabriel_laddel: MP is on the verge of understanding.

22:08:00 trinque: well more specifically

22:08:14 trinque: I wouldn't even be bothering now if I hadn't used emacs for years prior

22:08:28 trinque: I compared masamune to emacs somewhere in teh logz

22:08:45 gabriel_laddel: I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

22:08:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.0005033 = 18.6976 BTC [-]

22:08:56 gabriel_laddel: I saw that.

22:09:10 trinque: emacs is what a guy whose seen a lisp machine builds on unix

22:09:19 trinque: with the pragmatism dial set somewhere middling

22:09:53 gabriel_laddel: Emacs is Stallman hating the lisp machine. Pragmatic my arse.

22:10:43 trinque: gabriel_laddel: dunno if my point is coming across.

22:10:48 gabriel_laddel: not at all

22:10:52 gabriel_laddel: Spending a year learning elisp, and then a year unlearning it because it's a dead end isn't pragmatic at all.

22:10:59 gabriel_laddel: fucking stallman

22:11:03 trinque: I use pragmatic as a dirty word

22:11:04 gabriel_laddel: should have just used CL

22:12:01 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm still not sure what you're getting at...

22:12:19 trinque: emacs is the closest thing I as a derp coming into the industry in 2006 would ever find which somewhat resembled the experience that was possible *before I was goddamn born*

22:12:43 trinque: *dev experience

22:15:11 gabriel_laddel: hrm.. I'll drop something in the logs about forwards compatibility sometime.

22:16:05 trinque: I'm trying to say something about acts of desperation around preserving a dying (better) culture in the midst of an insane one.

22:16:14 trinque: coming up short atm, and gotta run

22:16:55 trinque: obviously I want stan's fucking c-gate flowputer if it would mean I can actually reason about the machine's behavior

22:17:07 trinque: barring that... sbcl on unix? or some other compromise?

22:18:31 trinque: if you'd cracked warp drives, yet were surrounded by imbeciles that couldn't use the knowledge if they tried, maybe you might try to stash the knowledge in some corner of the world where it may re-emerge later

22:19:06 trinque: *from which it

22:19:12 trinque: bbl

22:28:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.0005033 = 20.887 BTC [-]

22:32:25 gabriel_laddel: !rated mjr_

22:32:25 assbot: mjr_ is not registered in WoT.

22:34:22 phf: gabriel_laddel: have you seen, nyef is making a new clim version, i think i read something about framebuffer backend

22:34:46 phf: https://github.com/abridgewater/nq-clim

22:34:48 assbot: abridgewater/nq-clim · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1O2m4Sr )

22:35:22 gabriel_laddel: phf: I had not seen this, thanks.

22:36:11 gabriel_laddel: Though I wish everyone would *stop it* with making new CLIM, CLIMACS etc. and just make what we have work.

22:38:10 *: gabriel_laddel mumbles "forwards compatibility!"

22:40:29 phf: yeah yeah, but it's cockroaches all the way down. anyone sane who's attempted ends up like asciilifeform, rejecting von neumann architecture, and ultimately giving up

22:41:01 gabriel_laddel: I was going to put this off until later - but whatever.

22:41:21 gabriel_laddel: Look, there is no reason we can't take SBCL and incrementally modify it to work on a loper device

22:41:57 gabriel_laddel: People keep bitching about "all the things wrong with common lisp" while completely ignoring that you can meaningfully upgrade the language without throwing away all the work that has been done over the years.

22:42:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63638 @ 0.00051164 = 32.5597 BTC [+] {2}

22:43:42 gabriel_laddel: For example, say that you find the existence of both elt & nth to be stupid. write a (meta)program that walks an arbitrary CL program and fixes all elt's to nths. Let everyone know that it's deprecated, and that they can run this program on their code to update it to CL 1.2 or whatever.

22:44:08 gabriel_laddel: the compiler can then be modified to take this into account.

22:44:25 gabriel_laddel: I, for example, dislike having both defstruct and defclass in the language.

22:44:33 gabriel_laddel: Am currently waiting for an intern to fix this.

22:45:09 gabriel_laddel: Over the course of a few years we can work the language down to something much smaller without at any point making it unsuitable for production work.

22:45:51 gabriel_laddel: Even with a Loper device you'll still have programs composed of the same primitives: draw-circle*, draw-sphere*

22:46:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 108852 @ 0.00002602 = 2.8323 BTC [-] {14}

22:46:48 gabriel_laddel: Work CL down to the core language and then when you get something new to play with you can build up that core and run (some) 'CL' programs on it.

22:47:33 gabriel_laddel: These metaprograms are great tasks for interns, especially those who don't "get lisp" yet.

22:47:51 phf: i'm not one of those people you're arguing against, i like cl standard just fine. i did paid common lisp consulting on and off for the past 10 years.

22:48:54 gabriel_laddel: phf: o cool

22:49:16 gabriel_laddel: phf: also, I think the loper device will end up being designed on top of CLIM.

22:49:20 gabriel_laddel: there are not really any other options

22:49:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00051604 = 14.4749 BTC [+]

22:50:06 gabriel_laddel: !up ascii_modem

22:50:30 ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197840 << that'd be 'scheme'

22:50:30 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 22:43:42; gabriel_laddel: For example, say that you find the existence of both elt & nth to be stupid. write a (meta)program that walks an arbitrary CL program and fixes all elt's to nths. Let everyone know that it's deprecated, and that they can run this program on their code to update it to CL 1.2 or whatever.

22:51:05 gabriel_laddel: ascii_modem: there is a scheme which didn't throw away the CL compiler and start from scratch?

22:51:31 ascii_modem: which compiler

22:51:58 gabriel_laddel: If *any* of them did this, for any compiler, I'd be rather surprised.

22:52:08 ascii_modem: sbcl, ccl, allegro, lispworks - each had own

22:52:51 ascii_modem: basic boojum with ~all~ lisps on x86 - is same

22:53:17 gabriel_laddel: sbcl, ccl, allegro, lispworks - each had own << You can still take portable CL programs and run the upgrade program on them without forcing compiler changes.

22:53:25 ascii_modem: the retarded os, in turn forced into being by retarded hw

22:53:33 gabriel_laddel: I know, I know.

22:54:24 phf: i think "minimal set of common lisp primitives" is a common theme on #lisp, not surprisingly with different answers every time

22:55:02 gabriel_laddel: phf: no one has done so much as even drafting a document specifying what is to be removed.

22:55:05 ascii_modem: you won't appreciate the full weight of this until you try to do something with, e.g., graphics, or signal process

22:55:09 gabriel_laddel: I read the relevent cliki page.

22:55:37 *: gabriel_laddel has a document collecting these links, ideas

22:55:54 gabriel_laddel: ascii_modem: like what with graphics?

22:56:04 gabriel_laddel: ascii_modem: I am currently using CLIM, opengl

22:56:19 ascii_modem: rearranging 'elt' and 'nth' ~~ 'deck chairs on titanic'

22:56:29 gabriel_laddel: heh

22:56:36 gabriel_laddel: defstruct and defclass?

22:56:47 ascii_modem: fuck opengl. i want peter henderson's sexpr graphics

22:57:11 ascii_modem: fuck wrapping abstractions around gpu ops

22:58:05 ascii_modem: fuck 2 machines showing 2 different bitmaps from same graphics op

22:58:22 ascii_modem: pc - retarded.

22:59:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.00052345 = 14.5257 BTC [+]

23:01:02 ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197814 << cl on pc only really became tolerably livable with in late '90s

23:01:02 assbot: Logged on 11-07-2015 22:11:04; gabriel_laddel: should have just used CL

23:01:57 phf: gabriel_laddel: that's because "removing" is not a particularly worthwhile activity in this case

23:02:39 gabriel_laddel: phf: then wtf is everyone discussing on #lisp?

23:02:50 phf: gabriel_laddel: intellectual exercise :)

23:03:20 ascii_modem: all of these turd polishings are 20+ years of wank by now,

23:03:22 phf: in practical terms, common lisp quirks are direct result of underlying machine level architecture

23:03:31 gabriel_laddel: I suppose masturbation counts as exercise.

23:04:00 ascii_modem: and distract from the fact that the ~machine~ is terminally retarded

23:04:40 gabriel_laddel: ascii_modem: dija read the part where I specified the reason for this is to impress a prince?

23:05:00 ascii_modem: if i were prince - i'd spit

23:05:07 phf: at some point i assume it wasn't retarded, more like "what can i do with these resistors and a soldering iron", became retarded later

23:05:24 phf: because technology change, but thinking basically remained the same

23:06:14 gabriel_laddel: ascii_modem: notice that you're not a prince.

23:06:23 ascii_modem: notice - princes - they spit

23:06:35 ascii_modem: and i know why.

23:06:45 ascii_modem: go ask'em

23:06:56 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: explain please.

23:07:26 gabriel_laddel: trinque: yeah, so fyi there is no obvious way to add the docstring to eldoc

23:07:35 gabriel_laddel: trinque: takes too much work. I give up.

23:07:55 ascii_modem: bbl.

23:28:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89858 @ 0.00051034 = 45.8581 BTC [-] {4}

23:29:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00051684 = 6.538 BTC [+]

23:38:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.0005033 = 2.0635 BTC [-]

23:56:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15098 @ 0.00050439 = 7.6153 BTC [+]