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Transcript for 11-09-2014, 2148 lines:

00:05:32 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/Lee_Ars/status/509728184242151424 << Looks like Lee is choosing Vox over BTC...

00:05:33 assbot: W/o getting too mushy, this is the best job Ive ever had & my coworkers are the best bunch of folks Ive ever had the privilege to work with

00:05:56 BingoBoingo: Wait, confused tech writers

00:06:11 BingoBoingo: Tim's the one with Vox

00:07:50 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> how is bitfinex an exchange at all ? < ask josh?

00:24:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.1783311 = 1.605 BTC [+] {3}

00:25:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.18481066 = 0.9241 BTC [+] {3}

00:26:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 34 @ 0.18970204 = 6.4499 BTC [+] {6}

00:28:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.19001666 = 1.1401 BTC [+] {3}

00:29:29 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: that video needs to be run through the google dewigglifier

00:29:49 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The video wiggles only because the world does

00:30:06 BingoBoingo: Not all bedrock is created equal

00:32:36 BingoBoingo: alf: people who do tall surgery http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/09/bones/

00:32:37 assbot: Bones: An Orthopedic Surgeon's Perspective - Medical Satire - GomerBlog

00:35:42 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla myeah

00:36:04 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a well.

00:36:12 BingoBoingo: http://vetsbehavingbadly.blogspot.com/2014/09/rabies-testing-quarantine.html

00:36:13 assbot: Veterinarians Behaving Badly: Rabies Testing & Quarantine

00:37:55 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was a false alarm on the reporter, confused him with a nearly indistinguishable reporter for Conde Nast

00:38:06 mircea_popescu: "She even managed to gracefully handle the incessant "point of order" type questioning from the one guy in the back, who always has to ask a stream of arcane academic questions that are irrelevant to anyone living in the real world."

00:38:14 mircea_popescu: these fucking derps and their "real world"

00:39:45 BingoBoingo: Well, I dunno that Bitcoin has made it too far into medicine yet aside from that Dr. Goss guy with the MyBitcoin fiasco

00:40:33 mircea_popescu: dude rly ? this chick is easily the most annoying shrill pest at any party.

00:40:45 mircea_popescu: she's made all that out of someone dropping the wrong shit i nthe bag ?

00:42:28 BingoBoingo: Yeah, amazing how whining about shit is a pest past time.

00:42:28 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

00:43:43 BingoBoingo: Vetrinarian is almost like the parody orthopod

00:51:40 mircea_popescu: lol

00:57:58 BingoBoingo: I prolly should have went to doctor school and been an orthopod

00:59:49 asciilifeform: re: bat and banana peel:

00:59:52 asciilifeform: obligatory:

00:59:53 asciilifeform: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33346/33346-h/33346-h.htm

00:59:54 assbot: Error 403

01:00:01 asciilifeform: yes, it's -that- robert wood.

01:00:24 asciilifeform: (woods' metal; destroyer of 'n-rays'; etc.)

01:00:56 asciilifeform: 'The Parrot and the Carrot one may easily confound / They're very much alike in looks and similar in sound, / We recognize the Parrot by his clear articulation, / For Carrots are unable to engage in conversation.'

01:01:10 asciilifeform: ( http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33346/33346-h/33346-h.htm#h2H_4_0010 )

01:01:10 assbot: Error 403

01:03:53 mircea_popescu: lol

01:10:29 asciilifeform: copper rounds << i thought almost all modern bullets have copper jackets.

01:11:00 BingoBoingo: http://atc.blockr.io/address/info/12djAcViRDNpfzkBEpN2N1RXCDocNi41BV

01:11:16 mircea_popescu: rounds as in coins

01:11:24 BingoBoingo: ATC mined > 200,000

01:11:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: exercise and regularity of schedule << exercise, easy; regularity of schedule is a dream to me, on account of my profession.

01:11:43 mircea_popescu: my schedule is utterly irregular if it helps anything.

01:11:56 kakobrekla: i dont even have one.

01:11:59 asciilifeform: 'HardwareWallet' << lol! they never get tired, do they.

01:12:43 BingoBoingo: What is a schedule and does it self lubricate?

01:12:50 asciilifeform: not possible to release HW-1 with an open firmware due to NDA << anybody got an ion beam machine? 'gentlemen, start your engines.'

01:13:19 *: kakobrekla doesnt

01:13:39 asciilifeform: irregular schedule because you don't feel like sleeping in a given week is rather different from because phone rings and you have to get in a wheeled coffin because otherwise starve.

01:14:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> irregular schedule because you don't feel like sleeping in a given week is rather different from because phone rings and you have to get in a wheeled coffin because otherwise starve. << I prefer to think of my car as an ablative Iron Man suit that protects me from exertion and damage at high speeds

01:14:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how is this different ?

01:15:23 asciilifeform: same as difference between ordinary sex and working as 'crack whore'

01:16:13 asciilifeform: or, horse in mongolian plains, far from man, and cart horse

01:16:13 asciilifeform: etc.

01:17:13 mircea_popescu: i don't see it. so in both cases you don't feel like sleeping that week

01:17:18 mircea_popescu: if you felt like it, you would.

01:17:46 asciilifeform: in case #2, just as you might feel like it, the bells might well ring.

01:18:10 mircea_popescu: right ?

01:18:35 asciilifeform: #1 - you want, you sleep.

01:19:33 mircea_popescu: i dun credit this. you kill a guy, you've killed some guy. there's no "i had to kill him", is there ? there's no "i had to eat this icecream". you eat it, you get fat, you don't, you don't.

01:20:21 asciilifeform: the observation was specifically about sleep (rather than the particular activity during the day, such as killings)

01:20:30 mircea_popescu: but even that.

01:20:47 asciilifeform: not sleeping because don't want yet is rather different from other people keeping you awake

01:20:49 mircea_popescu: if you don't feel like sleeping, does it matter what bell arrangement you use to ruin your sleep for you ?

01:20:57 BingoBoingo: Eh, some weeks I'll sleep 3 hours. Others I'll sleep 12 a day.

01:21:08 asciilifeform: bell is used by other people to ruin your sleep. in exchange for food & housing.

01:21:21 *: asciilifeform suspects he is not alone in this experience here

01:21:49 mircea_popescu: this is like "the sun is moving on the sky" "no the earth is moving really".

01:22:02 BingoBoingo: I live atm next to a fucking race track. have slept through races

01:22:14 asciilifeform: nah, more like the difference between being told 'let them eat cake' and eating cake.

01:22:52 mircea_popescu: you know the difference between antoinette and teh populace isn't that she's richer than them, it's that unlike them she dun care if she dies.

01:23:14 kakobrekla: i think mp is tying to say that everything but death is optional

01:23:38 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no but i mean... you gotta APPLY to these people's waking up service. job interview and all that.

01:23:52 mircea_popescu: at some point in there you gotta admit you pretty much went "sleep, fu."

01:24:27 mircea_popescu: now im asked to credit that whether you do this for purely aesthetic reasons or otherwise makes a difference.

01:24:35 mircea_popescu: well... what difference does it make ? you're still awake.

01:25:37 kakobrekla: your universal law of sleep undisturbness is unknown to most of the world.

01:25:53 mircea_popescu: hey, i bring light intra tenebrae :D

01:28:45 BingoBoingo: ;;tickler

01:28:45 gribble: Error: "tickler" is not a valid command.

01:28:51 BingoBoingo: ^ nanotube

01:28:59 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker dude

01:28:59 gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)

01:29:09 mircea_popescu: stop pinging the poor guy spuriously. he like teaches and shit.

01:29:09 BingoBoingo: Why can't we tickle yet?

01:29:14 BingoBoingo: Ah

01:32:41 mircea_popescu: jesus fuck

01:32:45 mircea_popescu: $depth s.mpoe

01:32:47 empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Bids: 3700 @ 0.00076773 10633 @ 0.00076594 10800 @ 0.00076507 10275 @ 0.00076418

01:32:48 empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Asks: 22250 @ 0.00076782 14306 @ 0.00076969 36377 @ 0.00076980 4395 @ 0.00076988

01:33:04 mircea_popescu: 9 satoshi apart ? what is this, some sort of joke ?

01:33:12 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/sarzitron/status/509876208251969536

01:33:13 assbot: When adopting African kids with AIDS becomes mandatory, urinate in public. As a sex offender you're not allowed near children. /hashtag/lifehacks?src=hash

01:33:39 mircea_popescu: yeah, because that law won't change o.o

01:38:02 TheNewDeal: ok kind of pissed here. submitted a good wager with 1.6 btc zeroconf, doesn't get accepted. somebody makes a shitty bet about 4chan and posts .09 btc and it gets accepted?

01:38:23 mircea_popescu: can it be with specifics ?

01:38:52 BingoBoingo: I though it was clear that 2BTC is pretty much the new zeroconf magic number

01:39:44 TheNewDeal: badgers bet

01:40:15 TheNewDeal: 1.66 is virtually 2, and if I would have known .3 btc would have made any sort of difference I would have obviously added it

01:40:35 BingoBoingo: Blame sports it seems it the issue

01:41:08 TheNewDeal: sports wasn't the issue. No bets being placed on soccer, while creating 50 bets was a issue

01:41:27 BingoBoingo: http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/7/7/2/313772_v1.jpg

01:43:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] [PAID] 166.02027623 BTC to 500`000`000 shares, 33 satoshi per share

01:43:21 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal i have no idea why i have to drag it out of you. you';re the upset party, you're supposed to be naturally verbose.

01:43:31 TheNewDeal: badgers ncaaf

01:43:44 TheNewDeal: i was betting on them winning their next 7 consecutive games

01:44:03 BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Were you betting on No?

01:44:08 TheNewDeal: I bet on yes!

01:44:20 TheNewDeal: and it could have been open for as much as 6 weeks for betting

01:44:43 mircea_popescu: 07-09-2014 Rejected Badgers (NCAAF) to finish 9 games with 2 losses (or more)

01:44:43 mircea_popescu: Rejection reason: Consider submitting with substantial paid wager.

01:44:48 mircea_popescu: that ? you put 1.6 on yes ?

01:44:57 TheNewDeal: 1.666 to be technical

01:45:10 mircea_popescu: what do you figure the odds to be on this ?

01:45:18 BingoBoingo: Wisconsin doesn't exactly have a challenging schedule

01:45:35 mircea_popescu: 2 or more losses means they need what, 2 out of 9 wins ?

01:45:49 mircea_popescu: has there even been a game with 8 losses out of 9 ?

01:45:52 TheNewDeal: they need to win all of the games up until 9, or they will have 2 losses

01:45:55 mircea_popescu: s/game/team

01:46:02 mircea_popescu: (or more)

01:46:14 BingoBoingo: http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/275/wisconsin-badgers

01:46:15 assbot: Wisconsin Football - Badgers News, Scores, Videos - College Football - ESPN

01:46:42 TheNewDeal: #9 was an away game against purdue

01:46:51 BingoBoingo: #18 Wisconsin should play the rest of their season undefeated

01:47:03 TheNewDeal: that's ridiculous

01:47:06 BingoBoingo: WTF Bullshit schedule is that

01:47:06 TheNewDeal: ill bet you on that

01:47:19 TheNewDeal: nebraska and iowa are no gimme

01:47:59 BingoBoingo: I would, but that would be Un-PC given Bo Pellini's face Chlymidia

01:48:20 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal so are you clear on wha happened there ?

01:48:34 TheNewDeal: I had to bet more, is what I understand

01:48:43 mircea_popescu: dude.

01:48:53 TheNewDeal: no?

01:49:03 BingoBoingo: But of the stretch to the Purdue game, Wisconsin should still be able to Lose to Northwestern and YEs still wins.

01:49:08 mircea_popescu: Badgers (NCAAF) to finish 9 games with 2 losses (or more) <<< ie, if they have 5 losses, it's a yes.

01:49:11 BingoBoingo: Illinois isn't beating Wisconsin

01:49:14 mircea_popescu: if they have 9 losses, it's a yes.

01:49:21 TheNewDeal: if that have 2 losses, it's a yes

01:49:24 TheNewDeal: and i wrote that it closes

01:49:56 BingoBoingo: Maryland *might* beat Wisconsin if alf can shock their team just right

01:50:09 TheNewDeal: I realize it was worded shitlity, but I needed to draw some light on the fact that they already lost one game

01:50:30 mircea_popescu: well so a) word it better ; b) obscure sports bets 2 btc as per whenever i announced this.

01:51:05 *: asciilifeform confesses he never once saw maryland play a game, despite living in 100 metres of where the (local half) of the games played out for 2 years, and within 5km for past 11 yrs.

01:51:31 mircea_popescu: what's this anyway, baseball ?

01:51:37 asciilifeform: i assumed football.

01:51:42 asciilifeform: (american football)

01:52:17 mircea_popescu: maybe you're not in the demo.

01:52:23 asciilifeform: possibly.

01:52:48 *: asciilifeform is embarrassingly ignorant of matters of modern sport

01:53:22 BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: What happened to the B1G, You don't play any of [Michigan. Michigan State, Ohio SucksCocks University}

01:53:51 TheNewDeal: they split it up

01:54:01 TheNewDeal: they play a tournament at the end of the year now

01:54:16 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why would chlamydia cripple a footballist ?

01:54:18 BingoBoingo: What, like JewGolf?

01:54:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He's the coach, needs to be able to see.

02:02:30 BingoBoingo: !up chalbersma

02:03:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00076773 = 2.8406 BTC [+]

02:03:36 RagnarDanneskjol: chalbersma is the pool dev we discussed

02:03:57 mircea_popescu: wellcome chalbersma

02:04:00 chalbersma: Hello MP

02:04:17 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol now to get me up to speed, where did we discuss this ?

02:04:34 RagnarDanneskjol: a few weeks ago in chan

02:04:43 mircea_popescu: can ye link ?

02:04:48 RagnarDanneskjol: will try

02:04:57 mircea_popescu: !s is your friend

02:04:59 assbot: 38 results for 'is your friend' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=is+your+friend

02:08:28 RagnarDanneskjol: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2014#802685

02:08:28 assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 11:38:13; mircea_popescu: <RagnarDanneskjol> I know more than a few highly competent pool hosts if this one proves unreliable << so hook something up

02:10:12 mircea_popescu: aha. well, that proved reliable so far, but anyway, let's see if we can do something for your friend here.

02:10:21 mircea_popescu: chalbersma what do you have in mind ?

02:10:44 RagnarDanneskjol: regarding p2pool setup / hosting that is

02:10:49 *: X-Rob pays attention

02:11:59 mircea_popescu: X-Rob refresh me, what's the problem with p2pool in bitcoin again ? too slow -> orphans or what was it ?

02:12:17 RagnarDanneskjol: i didn't think there was an atc p2pool avail with monitoring, etc that anyone could use

02:12:18 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: nothing's really wrong with p2pool in bitcoin, as it has a decent block time

02:12:45 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well x-rob was going to make one, but then he got high.

02:12:47 BingoBoingo: Now the COinminer ATC p2pool was configured poorly or something?

02:12:51 X-Rob: p2pool with coins that have ultra-short block times cause issues, as the p2pool share time is 1/10th of the coin block time

02:13:25 X-Rob: It kept falling over, I think was the major issue.

02:13:37 mircea_popescu: why that ?

02:13:46 mircea_popescu: !up chalbersma

02:13:49 mircea_popescu: can he even talk lol

02:14:21 X-Rob: BingoBoingo had already voiced him 8)

02:14:40 BingoBoingo: Well a problem with the Coinminer p2pool was they never fucking responded to inquiries

02:14:43 mircea_popescu: so then why exactly are there no p2p pools in bitcoin ?

02:14:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00076594 = 7.9275 BTC [-]

02:15:00 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: p2pool in bitcoin was 5% of the network, last time I looked.

02:15:02 BingoBoingo: There's a Bitcoin p2pool

02:15:04 X-Rob: that's not 'no'.

02:15:15 mircea_popescu: kay, i stand corrected

02:15:19 chalbersma: I was more wondering what exactly you were looking for.

02:15:19 mircea_popescu: why's it so anemic ?

02:15:35 X-Rob: Ah. That's a different question. BEcause people can't math.

02:15:42 mircea_popescu: chalbersma well, atc is this direct btc clone. it currenlty has not much of a usable pool.

02:15:52 BingoBoingo: %p

02:15:55 atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net

02:15:55 atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.61 TH/s

02:16:09 BingoBoingo: Oh Pity the Pool died again...

02:16:18 BingoBoingo: %p

02:16:20 atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net

02:16:20 atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.52 TH/s

02:16:25 mircea_popescu: X-Rob speaking of ppl can't math : "Basically, by specifying the price to such a huge place, it gives an advantage because it takes a smaller price change to win."

02:16:37 BingoBoingo: And iSpace is the opposite of stable

02:16:38 chalbersma: I've set it up with bitcoin and from what I understand atc is almost identical it "should work" almost out of the box.

02:16:40 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: what's that gibberish?

02:17:02 mircea_popescu: fresh offa reddit. people apparently believe that 1.4589799845796 is specified narrowerly than 2.

02:17:03 X-Rob: I'm assuming it was comprehensible in context?

02:17:10 X-Rob: Oh

02:17:10 X-Rob: No

02:17:12 X-Rob: No it wasn't.

02:17:14 mircea_popescu: oh yes.

02:17:20 mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2fzu74/bitbet_bitcoin_to_surpass_berkshire_as_an/ckeykpc

02:17:21 assbot: Mark_Karpeles_Jr comments on BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.08 B (85%) on Yes, 193.66 B (15%) on No

02:18:04 mircea_popescu: chalbersma do you run a bitcoin pool atm ?

02:18:27 chalbersma: Yes I run one for RSM an internal P2pool node for bitcoin with a few alts merge mined.

02:18:42 RagnarDanneskjol: RSM being

02:18:48 mircea_popescu: red star mining ?

02:18:51 chalbersma: Red Star Mining.

02:18:52 RagnarDanneskjol: yes

02:18:53 chalbersma: Indeed

02:20:42 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: How's your Bitcoin history?

02:21:13 chalbersma: Mid range started getting involved summer of last year.

02:21:44 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Given the first name Meni... Can you offer a last name and a list of transgressions?

02:21:45 chalbersma: Did a couple of small projects: https://github.com/chalbersma/btcaddrtocsv

02:21:46 assbot: chalbersma/btcaddrtocsv GitHub

02:22:01 RagnarDanneskjol: he's a candidate who came to me, i interviewed a few times and deemed worthy of such an undertaking

02:22:06 TheNewDeal: for a second I thought he operated a pool for richard stallman...

02:22:22 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0XF8XT8.txt )

02:22:22 BingoBoingo: !b 1

02:22:25 asciilifeform: lol!

02:23:03 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2fzu74/bitbet_bitcoin_to_surpass_berkshire_as_an/ckezgkh

02:23:04 assbot: xrobau comments on BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.08 B (85%) on Yes, 193.66 B (15%) on No

02:23:07 X-Rob: I couldn't resist

02:23:45 *: asciilifeform saw 'red star', thought 'what a soviet mining firm might've been named', went to check 'http://bitcoin.su.' lo and behold - there's one.

02:24:01 mircea_popescu: sorry bout that.

02:24:01 asciilifeform: frozen in time, links to 'mtgox'

02:24:02 chalbersma: :) Ya I didn't name the company.

02:24:16 mircea_popescu: chalbersma so what's your relation to the guy running it, w/e his name is ?

02:24:21 asciilifeform: (and glbse!)

02:25:08 chalbersma: We're friends. Are you asking me to tell you his name?

02:25:33 RagnarDanneskjol: he's a nice southern gentleman who wanted to work in crypto and just happened to live in close proximity to them

02:26:00 RagnarDanneskjol: he didnt know in advance of employment, correct me if i'm wrong chris

02:26:22 mircea_popescu: chalbersma well no, but we aren't friends is all :)

02:26:43 RagnarDanneskjol: big surprise

02:27:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, so you setup a private p2poolk for rsm. anything non private / i can verify ?

02:27:05 chalbersma: Ya he has an opinion about you but then again he's a bit hotheaded and has opinions about a lot of people. But he gave me my first break in bitcoin so...

02:27:34 mircea_popescu: chalbersma contrary to what BingoBoingo may have you believe, there's no secret initiation rite, especiually nothing involving blood.

02:27:59 mircea_popescu: or sorbothane.

02:28:15 chalbersma: Ya but I needed someone to "show me the ropes" so to speak. I'm sure I could have done it myself but this gave me a structured way to start.

02:28:18 *: asciilifeform sorbothaned for nothing!

02:28:22 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It totally involves blood, but yes it isn't secret... Totally public

02:28:23 mircea_popescu: !up KRS-1

02:28:42 mod6:

02:28:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7329 @ 0.00076418 = 5.6007 BTC [-]

02:29:02 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: What are your favorite Unixisms?

02:29:04 mike_c: RagnarDanneskjol: did you mention awhile ago that you were involved with a new ATC block explorer? or did I make that up in a dream?

02:29:23 chalbersma: ATM the RSM p2pool has a private IP in the DC but we're working on getting it a public one. When the request comes back you'd be able to log into the public stats page and check it out.

02:29:40 mircea_popescu: chalbersma what sort of load does it carry ?

02:29:41 RagnarDanneskjol: mike_c -I'm working on it - a wallet too, should be done soon

02:29:49 RagnarDanneskjol: like maybe this week

02:29:53 KRS-1: Anyone care to share your thoughts on this article? I know many of you aren't America, but perhaps you can relate afterall. http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/11/10/the-continued-pussification-of-the-american-male/

02:29:54 assbot: The Continued Pussification of the American Male

02:29:54 mike_c: ah, excellent

02:29:59 chalbersma: ATM 5 1TH/s miners from bitmine.ch

02:30:22 BingoBoingo: KRS-1: Yours?

02:30:31 KRS-1: no not at all

02:30:31 nanotube: BingoBoingo: tickler eh hehe. mircea_popescu thanks for the concern :D

02:30:36 mircea_popescu: chalbersma and what do you run it on ? vps ? amazon ?

02:30:44 KRS-1: I don't publish anything.

02:30:47 mircea_popescu: nanotube :p

02:31:09 BingoBoingo: KRS-1: Why not, you've often had insightful things.

02:31:23 mircea_popescu: kinda really shy. KRS.

02:31:41 KRS-1: I've often thought about it tbh.

02:31:52 mircea_popescu: "Gentlemen, being a man is great. You get to use your muscles to pick up heavy things, you get to use your dick to fuck things, and you get to use your brain to think and create things. It?s no wonder feminist?s hate men ? they desperately want what we have but they can never have it. But how the heck have they convinced MEN that being a man is bad or evil?" << ah come on, women can't lift things ? wtf.

02:32:38 BingoBoingo: I mean German women are the backbone of Europe

02:32:55 KRS-1: I've got to admit the author has an edge and I find a lot of his writing pretty good.

02:33:40 mircea_popescu: KRS-1 well so the guy has broadly speaking a point. otherwise he's much too blund and sorely uneducated/uninformed to make much of it.

02:33:43 mircea_popescu: not my cup.

02:33:51 BingoBoingo: Whatever happened to BTC knife guy

02:34:28 chalbersma: 1 colo'ed of these: http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/5018/SYS-5018A-TN4.cfm

02:34:30 assbot: Supermicro | Products | SuperServers | 1U | 5018A-TN4

02:35:09 mircea_popescu: for a 1th/s pool ?

02:35:09 chalbersma: Originally designed it to do scrypt p2pool with many alts but the scrypt hardware we pre-ordered was delayed.

02:35:47 KRS-1: Cool thanks for checking it out

02:36:03 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Where do you Colo?

02:36:23 chalbersma: Netsolus : http://www.netsolus.com/

02:36:25 assbot: netsolus | IT Services Kansas City

02:36:26 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: I've been looking at datacenters in the region for my blog

02:36:52 BingoBoingo: Fuck KC, I was hoping you'd have an StL solution. Or maybe CoMo

02:37:11 KRS-1: imo Texas is the best place to set up shop

02:37:20 chalbersma: :)

02:38:05 BingoBoingo: Only Texans I've met have been steers and queers

02:38:21 KRS-1: HAHA I've heard that before

02:38:50 KRS-1: At least 5 major carriers converge somewhere in Dallas. Major peering points.

02:39:17 mircea_popescu: txas is good. atlanta is also good. slc is actually decent

02:39:59 mircea_popescu: chalbersma ok so, part of the problem here is that the entire market cap of atc is about what it'd cost to get a server colo'd.

02:40:36 chalbersma: Depending on the size of the atc blockchain you may be able to host it on a VPS cheaper.

02:40:54 chalbersma: Or potentially host it off someones home connection for a smaller fee.

02:41:17 RagnarDanneskjol: its miniscule <100mb i believe

02:41:40 decimation: re: hoa << it's a scam that's also perpetrated by the 'property management' industry

02:41:49 BingoBoingo: I could move 4 times in the next year so my home connection is iffy

02:42:08 decimation: they charge several hundred $usd to provide the 'paperwork' needed to sell a house with covenants

02:42:09 mircea_popescu: you have a home now ?!

02:42:43 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, I have a domain name

02:42:47 mircea_popescu: aok

02:43:02 BingoBoingo: Otherwise I have couches

02:43:16 decimation: also many states/counties charge a high fee to reproduce the official deeds with covenants

02:43:41 mircea_popescu: who cares about a few hundred ?

02:43:50 BingoBoingo: HOA's are a scam because most of them ban unkers

02:43:53 TheNewDeal: KRS-1 not totally convinced "soy is an estrogen enhancing garbage by-product." Used to supplement it while lifting weights in the past, worked just fine for muscle buidling

02:43:54 BingoBoingo: *bunkers

02:44:02 asciilifeform: unkers ?

02:44:11 asciilifeform: aha

02:44:24 decimation: well individually nobody (it's a roundoff error in the total 'fees' required to transact us real estate) , but spread over thousands of transactions you have a 'special interest'

02:44:25 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Meant bunkers, I would love a studio apartment under the pasture

02:44:30 BingoBoingo: !up chalbersma

02:44:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you can't build a bunker in secret from aerially-observing enemy, it isn't a real bunker.

02:44:58 asciilifeform: nor are the lands sufficiently large then

02:45:12 decimation: also many of them have language banning antennas of all kinds -- this was 'encouraged' by the cable companies

02:45:22 asciilifeform: carry away the earth in buckets, if you have to, in pant pockets - as pictured in 'the great escape.'

02:45:32 mircea_popescu: chalbersma what's this datacoin thing ?

02:45:37 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Amaxing how much of the research in this field is documented on "reality tv"

02:45:44 asciilifeform: decimation: antennae << unenforceable in usa. fcc (fed gov.) has final jurisdiction over antennae.

02:45:48 mircea_popescu: !up chalbersma

02:45:51 decimation: they usually also ban things like clotheslines and pretty much anything unusual

02:46:20 decimation: asciilifeform: that only applies to regular humans using 'small' (less than 1 meter) sat dishes or tv antennas

02:46:20 chalbersma: Almost dead now. I was quite interested in it. Was permanent storage in a blockchain. Never really valuable but an interesting concept.

02:46:29 BingoBoingo: What if my dick curves ever so slightly to the left? It's conductive... antenna?

02:46:34 asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

02:46:34 assbot: Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule | FCC.gov

02:46:42 asciilifeform: right, 1m.

02:46:58 decimation: right, 30 foot tower with 15 foot HF dipole is banned

02:47:12 decimation: most us folk think antennas are 'ugly'

02:47:18 mircea_popescu: decimation well in exchange you get to not have a pole around

02:47:29 decimation: "The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. "

02:47:34 BingoBoingo: Antenna need not be pole. Saltwater lake works too.

02:47:43 decimation: you see, it's okay to receive propaganda

02:48:04 decimation: BingoBoingo: not if you want low-angle radiation for maximal ionospheric skip

02:48:25 mircea_popescu: chalbersma i see. well okay, so do you see yourself running a bunch of pools in the future ? or what ?

02:48:32 BingoBoingo: decimation: Then you dig your lake a better hole and insert pipes for "irrigation"

02:48:38 decimation: although it's true that many objects can be made to radiate if matched properly

02:48:52 decimation: although a salt marsh would make an ideal ground plane

02:49:18 BingoBoingo: decimation: or ground aspargus mound works perfectly

02:49:28 decimation: many hams use a 'flagpole'

02:49:42 decimation: or string sufficiently invisible wire in a tree

02:49:55 chalbersma: Not sure to be honest. I'm a Sys Admin by day so it seemed natural to bring those skills to bitcoin as I started to get into it.

02:50:14 mircea_popescu: trustable btc hosting is probably in more demand atm

02:50:24 mircea_popescu: if you sysadmin for a living start your own host.

02:50:34 asciilifeform: hams use a 'flagpole' << think from this angle - any scenario where a gigantic antenna is a plus, it is also quite important that it be hidden from prying eyes

02:50:40 chalbersma: If they're is enough interest in p2pool and other mining servers I might consider it.

02:50:50 decimation: usg's sub-agents are continuing a fight against anything usual: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-dc-a-12-year-old-piano-prodigy-is-treated-as-a-truant-instead-of-a-star-student/2014/09/08/58962746-3727-11e4-bdfb-de4104544a37_story.html

02:50:51 assbot: In D.C., a 13-year-old piano prodigy is treated as a truant instead of a star student - The Washington Post

02:50:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't hide an antenna. this is the definition of antennae.

02:51:06 asciilifeform: decimation: linked 2 days ago here.

02:51:09 decimation: sure you can hide antennae

02:51:09 mircea_popescu: decimation 12 or 13 ?

02:51:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can hide if receiving.

02:51:15 decimation: heh

02:51:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if receiving don't even need all that much.

02:51:35 KRS-1: lol so many sysadmins

02:51:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: (unless it's 1941 and you're pissing inadvertent heterodyne noise to a waiting wagen on street)

02:51:47 KRS-1: errywhere

02:51:56 decimation: yeah the real complication comes when you want to pump high power into something and have it not burn/explode

02:52:10 RagnarDanneskjol: chalbersma - the interest is there - I get requests for pool talent all the time.

02:52:18 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Any experience with Solaris or Free(storage)BSD? Any intent on running a hosting operation yourself?

02:52:50 mircea_popescu: after bitvps went to the dogs i dunno that there's actually any dedicated btc hoster

02:53:23 KRS-1: BingoBoingo: I work for a datacenter in Canada. I often thought of setting up something but I go blank when I think of what to do.

02:53:35 chalbersma: @Bingo would consider it in the future. Not looking into starting a hosting gig full time at this point. I haven't worked with Solaris but at my last job I did setup an internal FreeBSD webserver for them and I've been keeping up with FBSD for a while (esp. that ZFS goodness).

02:53:48 KRS-1: openstack often comes to mind lately though

02:54:14 BingoBoingo: Openstack is bollocks, mysterymeat

02:54:27 chalbersma: @Bingo I am also interested in MaidSafe it seems like if it's implemented properly it could be the decentralized Amazon EC2.

02:54:31 decimation: I was thinking to myself this evening: what if Washington DC were washed into the sea tomorrow? usg's contingency plans would probably be to move the government west, in the middle of the kulaks they have been harassing for decades. I don't think that 'contingency usg' would survive as an entity that we would recognize.

02:55:08 mircea_popescu: what sort of silly counterfactual is this.

02:55:28 decimation: re: solaris << had a proper live stack tracing system. This is what linux has: http://poormansprofiler.org/

02:55:28 assbot: poor man's profiler

02:55:33 BingoBoingo: decimation: You know StL was considered as a potential replacement DC after it was sacked by Canada

02:56:27 BingoBoingo: decimation: Dtrace has been a thing since I was a wee college freshman

02:56:39 chalbersma: I've heard rumors of Denver. Major air hub, centrally located, US mint, near AF College...

02:57:09 BingoBoingo: Only problem is legal weed

02:57:19 chalbersma: Plus the usg couldn't get any worse if it was toking up. :)

02:57:37 BingoBoingo: I dunno anymoar after Obummer

02:57:37 asciilifeform: profilers << 'valgrind.'

02:57:43 RagnarDanneskjol: !up RagnarsBitch

02:57:51 mircea_popescu: allow me to contribute a naked woman with cane marks on buttocks and buckets to the discussion. http://38.media.tumblr.com/cf703026c6e39b636e296a6e9a8a9072/tumblr_mrhlp197Gz1sum4lro4_500.jpg

02:58:07 decimation: asciilifeform: try running 'valgrind' on an application that requires high-bandwidth/speed performance

02:58:33 *: BingoBoingo wonders if there is a 68k port of Valgrind

02:58:33 asciilifeform: decimation: requires, as in, to work in any logical sense at all?

02:58:40 decimation: chalbersma: denver would be logical. my point is that I suspect that usg employees are paid $$$ to write fantasy

02:58:54 asciilifeform: profiler generally exists to eyeball what portion of the time is spent where in the program.

02:58:59 decimation: asciilifeform: no as in if it must keep up with real-time hardware

02:59:07 asciilifeform: decimation: you're stuck purchasing an ICE then.

02:59:25 decimation: can you buy such a beast for high-end intel boards?

02:59:30 asciilifeform: decimation: yes.

02:59:34 BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: no as in if it must keep up with real-time hardware << Sounds like someone needs to buy Alpha IP from Intel

03:00:05 decimation: linux actually has something called 'perf' that does this - sorta - but the problem is that it doesn't do a full backtrace

03:00:09 BingoBoingo: http://www.vice.com/read/how-to-have-a-non-monogomous-relationship-169?utm_source=vicetwitterus

03:00:10 assbot: How to Have a Non-Monogamous Relationship | VICE United States

03:00:11 chalbersma: So this p2pool server are you looking for one to run with ATC or with Bitcoin? My understanding is that ATC is not merge minable.

03:00:22 asciilifeform: decimation: intel's ice port - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1441 (empty)

03:00:23 assbot: Loper OS » Mechanics of FLUXBABBITT.

03:00:47 decimation: asciilifeform: heh yeah, but does it track frame pointers?

03:00:57 BingoBoingo: ATC is totally not mergeminable, and there are questions over whether pool hosting costs could be justified for:

03:01:02 BingoBoingo: !MPIF

03:01:03 assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00022 BTC [+]

03:01:13 BingoBoingo: %t

03:01:14 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 24h-Vol: 2k High: 221 Low: 221 VWAP: 221

03:01:15 BingoBoingo: %v

03:01:15 asciilifeform: decimation: lets you set hardware breakpoints, incl. on register access

03:01:17 atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 842k 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195

03:01:18 BingoBoingo: %d

03:01:19 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 282937.87 in 1266 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -84.94

03:01:28 asciilifeform: decimation: like any decent hardware debugger for other archs

03:01:53 BingoBoingo: Valgrind definitely has higher resolution than resedit for sure.

03:02:28 BingoBoingo: Resedit being the last great dev tool offered by apple

03:02:56 mircea_popescu: chalbersma was for atc yea

03:03:16 chalbersma: If the idea is to minimize costs then a VPS is probably your best bet for now. Especially considering that the blockchain is so small. Question can other sha-256 coins be merged ontop of atc? Like namecoin

03:03:26 mircea_popescu: not afaik

03:03:53 BingoBoingo: No merged mining is possible with ATC, by ThickasTheives design

03:04:26 BingoBoingo: ATC is a totally independent SHA-256 chain

03:04:41 decimation: BingoBoingo: actually osx has 'dtrace'

03:04:44 decimation: http://dtrace.org/blogs/brendan/2011/10/10/top-10-dtrace-scripts-for-mac-os-x/

03:04:46 assbot: Brendan's blog » Top 10 DTrace scripts for Mac OS X

03:05:14 BingoBoingo: decimation: OSX is not Mac OS and is not a thing I recognize as existing.

03:05:25 decimation: lol

03:05:25 chalbersma: I think the real issue then is how much "ummph" does the VPS in question need. I've not had a chance to experiment with the minimum requirements for ATC or p2pool ontop of ATC.

03:05:40 decimation: asciilifeform I suspect such hardware would not be cheap

03:05:56 BingoBoingo: decimation: The last version of Mac anything was 7.5.1

03:05:59 mircea_popescu: X-Rob wa the pool falling over because not enough cpu ?

03:06:13 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I have no idea. It just stopped giving me work

03:06:25 chalbersma: Does anyone have an idea of how much ram atc's daemon uses?

03:06:30 mircea_popescu: maybe it's because the work had too many decimals.

03:06:43 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3HT3AC6.txt )

03:06:43 BingoBoingo: !b 4

03:06:44 mircea_popescu: chalbersma 4mb ?

03:06:48 decimation: X-Rob: why do you think folks are willing to pay more than the expected return to rent miners?

03:07:13 BingoBoingo: !up AndChat|679296

03:07:14 X-Rob: decimation: Because they are willing. It's not a hypothesis.

03:07:22 mircea_popescu: im a case study in that neh ?

03:07:44 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: No, actually, you're not. I think I ended up charging you about 0.1btc over estimate

03:07:48 chalbersma: So not much at all. I think the p2pool node I setup for RSM was using about 400MB of RAM but I was telling that server to manually connect to a number of peers.

03:07:53 asciilifeform: decimation: not cheap << see http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233532779857997@naggum.net.html

03:07:53 assbot: Re: Upper limits of CL - Naggum cll archive

03:08:03 BingoBoingo: %v

03:08:04 atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 842k 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195

03:08:14 mircea_popescu: X-Rob so that's not overpaying ? because why, not enough decimals ? :D

03:08:29 X-Rob: Because that's well within statistical uncertanty

03:08:43 BingoBoingo: !up Guest36874

03:08:53 mircea_popescu: but admitting for the sake of admittance.

03:09:13 asciilifeform: profilers << first, try 'gcov' - bare essentials, conveniently baked into gcc.

03:09:28 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I think he's referring to me being at estimate * 1.25 on leaserig.

03:09:50 decimation: asciilifeform: I think with the new 'dwarf frames' & libunwind things have gotten better on linux

03:10:14 X-Rob: decimation: I feel that I'm always at the bottom edge of the market of rig hire. I don't want to appear to rip people off

03:10:15 mircea_popescu: 25% ?!

03:10:29 X-Rob: However, I invested 1BTC to lease a bunch of rigs when SSD was released

03:10:37 X-Rob: I ended up owning almost 10% of the coin

03:10:50 mircea_popescu: what is ssd even

03:10:52 X-Rob: which I then sold and recouped my investment with a nice margin

03:11:03 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: SSD is burn only

03:11:06 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Sonic Screw Driver. Tor-based coin. Technically interesting.

03:11:14 mircea_popescu: uh. jeez.

03:11:19 decimation: X-Rob: good move, sounds like a decent business

03:11:36 asciilifeform: decimation: http://pastebin.com/scRkxz9w << example from life

03:11:37 assbot: [C] example of gcov - Pastebin.com

03:11:39 X-Rob: decimation: It's not a business. It's a hobby.

03:12:08 mircea_popescu: tbh i imagine that's what powers the 25%. narrow base.

03:12:23 asciilifeform: decimation: here - it counted. ~5000 hrs of runtime, had to count.

03:12:29 Guest36874: I'm almost certain its not a CPU or decimal issue...pool crashing that is

03:12:34 chalbersma: I noticed someone said they didn't like bitvps but they have VPS for $20/mo that may do the trick. I assume other vps providers have similar pricing. 2 cores 2G 20GB 2TB transfer.

03:12:44 chalbersma: brb

03:12:48 asciilifeform: decimation: (on 32 cpu. cost money, at the time.)

03:13:14 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: yep. It's unusual for my main rig to be idle for more than 6 hours or so.

03:13:21 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Bitvps has history here

03:13:30 BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust rg

03:13:31 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user rg: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 13 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=BingoBoingo&dest=rg | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=rg | Rated since: Sun Jun 5 13:39:49 2011

03:13:37 thestringpuller: keep dem hashes going

03:14:05 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Namworld helped to turn bitvps around

03:14:05 decimation: asciilifeform: thanks for the example

03:14:28 asciilifeform: decimation: not so much example for output (you can see that in 'man' page) but of where you might actually bother with profilers.

03:15:00 decimation: asciilifeform: I find that they are useful for picking the 'low hanging fruit'

03:15:08 decimation: programmers today are so lazy and wasteful with memory

03:15:36 mircea_popescu: it's judicious allocation decimation. compare cost of ram chips with what programmers cost.

03:15:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.0007626 = 5.1476 BTC [-] {2}

03:15:57 decimation: I wish the hardware had garbage collection built-in like your dream, but the problem is that the von neumann world is going the other direction

03:16:03 asciilifeform: 'programmers' is a ware in the same sense as 'food'

03:16:13 mircea_popescu: this is true

03:16:29 decimation: mircea_popescu: I guess I'm talking more about 'thrashing' - allocating and deallocating memory without care

03:16:42 thestringpuller: the life and times

03:17:15 mircea_popescu: ;;rate chalbersma 1 new blood.

03:17:17 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user chalbersma has been recorded.

03:17:22 mircea_popescu: !up chalbersma

03:17:34 mircea_popescu: you can self-up if identified to gribble, just pm assbot !up

03:17:49 decimation: as memory becomes slower relative to cores*cache available the incentive is to micro-manage how data is shoveled into the cpus

03:18:25 mircea_popescu: or make the bus wider

03:18:51 chalbersma: okay

03:19:11 mircea_popescu: !up upme_boolcrap

03:19:17 upme_boolcrap: hi

03:19:19 mircea_popescu: ello

03:19:22 upme_boolcrap: how goes it

03:19:35 mircea_popescu: im on my third slice of chocolate cake

03:19:35 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: where'd you put your key.

03:19:42 upme_boolcrap: nice cake

03:19:45 upme_boolcrap: i put my key in my other wallet

03:19:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform uphim.

03:19:52 upme_boolcrap: locked it in my safe and abandoned ship

03:19:55 asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap

03:20:21 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

03:20:23 gribble: Current Blocks: 320082 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 461 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29144209996.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.2547

03:20:39 upme_boolcrap: what kind of chocolate cake

03:20:43 TheNewDeal: network caught a cold

03:20:55 decimation: keys aren't safe on the ocean floor: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb305/

03:20:55 upme_boolcrap: how many women do you have cooking for you at once Mr.P?

03:20:59 mircea_popescu: home made

03:21:06 mircea_popescu: depends on the day.

03:21:16 upme_boolcrap: i imagine they are mostly naked?

03:21:33 mircea_popescu: sometimes.

03:21:50 upme_boolcrap: you a a god amongst men Mr.P

03:21:53 upme_boolcrap: are a.

03:21:54 chalbersma: Ya I remember reading about the RG problems. I use bitvps for my blog and it seems fairly stable. But I assume that there's probably a number of people offering VPS hosting for bitcoin these days.

03:21:58 mircea_popescu: no. among women.

03:22:01 upme_boolcrap: lol

03:22:15 upme_boolcrap: how can i convince my wife to let me have more wives

03:22:18 mircea_popescu: chalbersma not that many, really.

03:22:28 mircea_popescu: upme_boolcrap bring her here.

03:22:31 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: What is your blog?

03:22:43 TheNewDeal: blag*

03:22:49 chalbersma: http://mwguy.us/

03:22:50 assbot: Mid West Guy | A blog detailing useful stuff I've learned.

03:22:50 upme_boolcrap: hrm

03:23:01 upme_boolcrap: if she let me have more wives she would have to clean less

03:23:03 upme_boolcrap: and cook less

03:23:10 upme_boolcrap: this isn't all bad for her

03:23:30 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: you need a replacement wife. a correctly specced one encourages installation of auxiliary wives.

03:23:35 mircea_popescu: depends what mess you make.

03:23:47 upme_boolcrap: lol

03:23:50 upme_boolcrap: auxiliary wives

03:24:01 upme_boolcrap: man

03:24:04 chalbersma: @upme Has to be about redundancy :)

03:24:06 upme_boolcrap: you guys got it made.

03:24:22 chalbersma: Not really a marriage until it's N+1 eh?

03:24:45 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: mind you, socket for aux wives is just a start - you still have to obtain and install.

03:25:09 TheNewDeal: chalbersma what was mwgi

03:25:14 BingoBoingo: chalbersma: I know you linked an atom server architecture earlier, but x86 can't be your fave... can it?

03:25:57 decimation: chalbersma: some good tips on your blog, thanks for writing them up

03:26:26 chalbersma: http://ark.intel.com/products/77987 x86-64 arch on this particular processor.

03:26:27 assbot: ARK | Intel® Atom Processor C2750 (4M Cache, 2.40 GHz)

03:26:27 decimation: chalbersma: lol you still maintain hp-ux?

03:26:35 chalbersma: It's the low power stuff.

03:26:37 asciilifeform: hp-ux << lol!

03:26:50 upme_boolcrap: yeah mr.S

03:27:02 upme_boolcrap: so when are we fired

03:27:04 *: asciilifeform threw out a 50kg hp-ux (pa-risc!) box when moved

03:27:05 chalbersma: Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year.

03:27:05 upme_boolcrap: i kind of feel like i have to deliver something

03:27:09 decimation: atom cpus suck but they are low power

03:27:30 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: lol, have some dignity in our honourable mass grave!

03:27:38 mircea_popescu: upme_boolcrap say, did oyu have a few drinks ?

03:27:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I might be throwing out a lot of boxen soon.

03:28:11 upme_boolcrap: lol

03:28:21 upme_boolcrap: maybe ascii

03:28:24 upme_boolcrap: maybe a few drinks

03:28:32 upme_boolcrap: maybe i have indulged in the medical marijuana

03:28:36 asciilifeform: lulz

03:28:39 BingoBoingo: <chalbersma> Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year. << Stahp or I'll have to cover you in my systemd fatwah

03:29:03 chalbersma: lols

03:29:11 chalbersma: They have AIX too!

03:29:18 BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/19/romanian-billionaire-saves-openbsd/ << chalbersma I scooped you at least once

03:29:19 assbot: Romanian Billionaire Saves OpenBSD | Bingo Blog

03:29:26 BingoBoingo: AIX isn't real though

03:29:35 decimation: chalbersma: are they selling to usg?

03:29:43 BingoBoingo: AIX is just fancier panties for S/70

03:29:44 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: find bug >> http://pastebin.com/scRkxz9w << should occupy your newly-found mental powers

03:29:45 assbot: [C] example of gcov - Pastebin.com

03:30:15 upme_boolcrap: lol

03:30:16 upme_boolcrap: one look at that

03:30:18 upme_boolcrap: makes my face bleed

03:31:21 chalbersma: @decimation yes but not all the AIX/HP-UX clients are government.

03:31:26 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: originally phriend's, not mine. i merely de-c++ed, profiled, optimized, massaged, found where to run.

03:31:27 decimation: next someone is going to come around saying they maintain IRIX

03:31:45 upme_boolcrap: what is it supposed to do?

03:31:53 *: asciilifeform keeps an irix box around.

03:32:01 decimation: asciilifeform: they were pretty to be sure

03:32:47 decimation: awhile ago I was looking for modern dumb-terminal, found here: http://geoffg.net/terminal.html

03:32:48 assbot: Geoff's Projects - ASCII Video Terminal

03:32:51 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: calculates m. petitjean's chirality index for alpha-quartz crystal lattice of growing size. just as printed on the box.

03:33:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Isn't Irix basically crotchless panties?

03:33:06 asciilifeform: (defined here, http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.skewness.html)

03:33:06 assbot: Free Pages Personnelles: Erreur 404 - Document non trouvé

03:33:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: more or less. don't plug the ethernet in.

03:34:06 asciilifeform: modern ascii terminal << ibm 5250, say.

03:34:17 asciilifeform: why does it have to be modern-as-in-right-now

03:34:52 *: asciilifeform kept an ibm 3161 in uni, right in dorm room

03:34:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Modern is A/UX and system 7, everything used nao is postmodern

03:35:32 decimation: asciilifeform: my main requirement is to ditch x-ray crt

03:35:38 asciilifeform: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3101#mediaviewer/File:Ibm3161-setup.jpg << not mine )

03:35:39 assbot: IBM 3101 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

03:35:41 *: BingoBoingo used NetBSD's GPG fork on my MacSE/30 this fucking spring

03:35:48 asciilifeform: decimation: crt is what makes it worth having.

03:35:50 TheNewDeal: asciilifeform is ceill the typo?

03:35:53 asciilifeform: nice, slow phosphours.

03:36:00 BingoBoingo: result: machine burned

03:36:09 decimation: yeah what bingo said

03:36:23 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: trick. no typo.

03:36:33 TheNewDeal: fuck that

03:36:41 decimation: I would agree that finding one that spoke rs-422 would be neat

03:37:20 asciilifeform: you can plug that 'ibm' or whatever into - anything

03:37:32 BingoBoingo: Seriously, burned rather than finish finding entropy to generate keys

03:37:37 asciilifeform: if it speaks asynchronous serial (and what doesn't)

03:38:17 BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: my main requirement is to ditch x-ray crt << How else are you going to spot USD???

03:39:06 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I see it supports RS-422, that's neat. Would be useful for a home serial-terminal server

03:39:09 *: asciilifeform misses crt, but every time he buys 'amazing!11! well-preserved111! trinitron' - it's a faded turd.

03:39:09 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:39:19 *: BingoBoingo assumes the reason for metallic ink on high denomination USD bills is X-Ray shadow at the air port

03:39:20 *: asciilifeform besides, would need 4+ of them

03:39:36 decimation: asciilifeform: makes me sad I ditched my 21 inch trinitron a few years ago, but it was a heavy bitch

03:40:33 asciilifeform: the phosphour fades, and there is nothing to be done about it (besides a dreaded heathen recipe - boost the gun voltage. result: 'radiation king (tm)')

03:41:04 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah the weight is mostly the lead in the glass to protect from x-rays

03:41:09 asciilifeform: yes.

03:41:44 *: BingoBoingo regrets not talking first realish job into the other 3 processors and GB of RAM into the Ultra 80

03:41:44 decimation: junk dealers are selling all kinds of old ibm rs-422 terminals for various crazy asks

03:42:01 asciilifeform: rs232, mostly

03:42:12 asciilifeform: not that it makes more than a few pennies' difference to anyone

03:42:38 decimation: probably the way to find those cheap is to find some library or other such institution 'upgrading' to microshit

03:42:47 BingoBoingo: Only real difference between rs-422 and rs-232 is five minutes with a knife

03:43:35 decimation: BingoBoingo: rs-422 is a differential signal

03:43:37 BingoBoingo: <decimation> probably the way to find those cheap is to find some library or other such institution 'upgrading' to microshit << Interesting you mention this nao, get back to me in 2 weeks

03:44:20 BingoBoingo: decimation: I spz. knife instead of plug for a reason...

03:44:22 *: decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason

03:44:31 *: asciilifeform also saw this

03:45:03 decimation: I actually worked in a library in my youth, I quite enjoyed the spring keyboard and the 'peripheral' laser scanner

03:46:19 BingoBoingo: FUKU... or whatever my coinbr referal code is. I'm trying to get library work nao.

03:47:02 asciilifeform: who cares what their display weighs? how often, it moves !?

03:47:48 BingoBoingo: Exactly. Mac OS 7 was the shit.

03:48:00 decimation: why not freedos?

03:48:17 BingoBoingo: It was the GUI that corresponded to what the machine offered.

03:48:21 asciilifeform: put it this way. either you're a grown man and can pick up 50kg like feather - or - you're a cripple, and someone hangs around who can pick up -you- (to put in bedpan) - and this person will carry your display.

03:48:24 BingoBoingo: !up chalbersma

03:48:55 decimation: asciilifeform: I carried that thing over many moves, finally decided lcds were good enough to replace it

03:49:06 decimation: then I became addicted to the extra square feet of space

03:49:20 asciilifeform: decimation: i decided, and then some time later came to believe that was wrong - and it was too late.

03:50:12 decimation: it's true, I miss the contrast ratio for one thing

03:50:25 asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap

03:50:25 decimation: no led/lcd has a true black

03:50:28 BingoBoingo: !up upme_boolcrap

03:50:47 BingoBoingo: decimation: Only Liberia still has true blacks

03:51:42 decimation: and New Zealand

03:52:08 BingoBoingo: No, those aren't black, those are Abbo

03:52:48 upme_boolcrap: oh thank u sir.

03:53:06 upme_boolcrap: stan did i tell u yet

03:53:08 upme_boolcrap: that watermelon

03:53:09 upme_boolcrap: was amazing

03:53:09 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:54:43 decimation: a good sweet watermelon is one of the pleasures of the end of summer

03:54:49 upme_boolcrap: it really is

03:55:01 upme_boolcrap: i hope to grow at least 60 next year

03:55:05 upme_boolcrap: one for every day of august and september

03:55:19 decimation: lol do you have acres of space?

03:55:28 upme_boolcrap: for 60 watermelons?

03:55:29 upme_boolcrap: easy

03:55:32 upme_boolcrap: just 3 acres

03:55:48 upme_boolcrap: potatoes are also a big crop

03:55:50 upme_boolcrap: of mine

03:56:29 decimation: you live within commuting range of ascii? You must be rich

03:56:48 upme_boolcrap: rofl

03:56:49 upme_boolcrap: why would i be rich

03:57:05 decimation: real estate inflation

03:57:15 BingoBoingo: Becaue you live in prime cotton country

03:57:21 upme_boolcrap: haha

03:57:23 upme_boolcrap: i live in the hills

03:57:26 upme_boolcrap: its not to far out there

03:57:29 upme_boolcrap: its kind of perfect

03:57:33 upme_boolcrap: im still in a development

03:57:35 upme_boolcrap: so if someone kills me

03:57:39 upme_boolcrap: someone else will know

03:57:44 upme_boolcrap: but i have alot of room between other houses

03:57:55 upme_boolcrap: so i can roam naked in my yard if i wish

03:58:24 decimation: I've heard of people commuting from west virginia to the dc area

03:58:28 decimation: sounds crazy to me

03:58:59 upme_boolcrap: we only go in once a week

03:59:09 upme_boolcrap: its 1.15 hours to work

03:59:09 decimation: ah well that would be okay then

03:59:15 upme_boolcrap: too far for me to drive each day

03:59:42 decimation: I was talking with a guy who worked near the Googleplex the other day - apparently he knows people that commute 3 hours each way

04:00:02 upme_boolcrap: woow

04:00:05 upme_boolcrap: yeah houses in the city

04:00:07 upme_boolcrap: are too expensive

04:01:52 decimation: !s bezzle wolf

04:01:53 assbot: 1 results for 'bezzle wolf' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bezzle+wolf

04:02:00 chalbersma: So what's next on this P2Pool server?

04:02:08 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2013#431244

04:02:09 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2013 21:26:27; asciilifeform: at some point 'the bezzle' becomes real, the cartoon wolf looks down and finally obeys gravity, goes splat off the cliff.

04:03:40 asciilifeform: decimation, BingoBoingo, others - http://imgur.com/mA3Jknc << possibly only good thing about lcd, you can do this.

04:03:40 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

04:05:13 upme_boolcrap: !nakedchicks

04:06:01 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I wish one could buy a poster-sized display

04:06:37 Duffer1: !bait

04:06:39 decimation: I see you keep a few 4:3 displays too

04:06:48 asciilifeform: decimation: they stack well.

04:06:53 Duffer1: what no bait?

04:06:55 BingoBoingo: do /msg ozbot .d

04:07:21 decimation: lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :)

04:07:38 asciilifeform: no emacs in this picture.

04:08:00 decimation: what's the quartile in the upper right? just terminals?

04:08:05 asciilifeform: 'ratpoison'

04:08:09 asciilifeform: !s ratpoison

04:08:10 assbot: 12 results for 'ratpoison' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=ratpoison

04:08:19 decimation: ah

04:08:24 asciilifeform: favourite wm

04:08:30 asciilifeform: (not only mine, many folks)

04:08:31 decimation: are all of those displays driven from one machine?

04:08:35 asciilifeform: aye

04:08:43 asciilifeform: nothing terribly peculiar

04:08:55 decimation: I bet it was a pain in the ass to setup xconf

04:09:18 asciilifeform: set up once, then live. like building house.

04:09:42 decimation: except if you use gentoo, occasion decisions by crazies wipe out your house, then rebuild...

04:10:12 asciilifeform: or forget about the crazies and run alone.

04:12:26 decimation: so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand?

04:12:34 asciilifeform: mostly.

04:12:55 BingoBoingo: !up devthedev

04:12:59 decimation: sounds legit. I second diametric in that discussion the other day, I like arch as a former gentoo user

04:13:07 *: asciilifeform not particularly enamoured of gentoo, but there is no real alternative.

04:13:15 chalbersma: It's been a fun gents. I'm going to call it a night. You guys have a good one.

04:13:29 BingoBoingo: devthedev: You ever ru a p2pool?

04:13:32 decimation: agreed, there is an unfilled space for an 'adult' source distro

04:14:40 BingoBoingo: Well ideas of adult and distro tend to run contrary to each other

04:15:43 decimation: ideally the distro should come from ascii's software-priests

04:15:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00076747 = 9.8236 BTC [+] {2}

04:17:13 BingoBoingo: Or you know... magazines and glue sticks

04:20:56 asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap

04:21:08 BingoBoingo: Oh, a Brian Goss, maybe the one from this space? >> http://www.tubeplus.me/player/2149175/Hotel_Hell/season_2/episode_8/Murphys_Hotel/?huid=hxpyursy1xh9

04:21:09 assbot: HOTEL HELL S02E08 - Murphys Hotel - Watch Online For Free on TubePlus

04:26:30 BingoBoingo: Minute 25 is best minute

04:28:03 decimation: http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ << there was a strong solare flare from an earth-facing sunspot at 1745 utc, could produce a nasty geomagnetic storm in a few days

04:28:04 assbot: NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

04:29:03 upme_boolcrap: nice

04:29:30 upme_boolcrap: i want a solar flare that will destroy every electric instrument on earth

04:29:57 asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: tough one.

04:30:01 asciilifeform: ;;google faraday cage

04:30:02 gribble: Faraday cage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage; HowStuffWorks "How Faraday Cages Work": http://science.howstuffworks.com/faraday-cage.htm; Build Your Own Faraday Cage. Here's How. - The Survivalist Blog: http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/build-your-own-faraday-cage-heres-how/

04:30:42 decimation: it's not the initial flare, it's the geomagnetic storm, which is mainly a threat to equipment attached to long conductors

04:30:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25360 @ 0.00076189 = 19.3215 BTC [-]

04:31:26 decimation: EMP from ionospheric H-bomb is a bigger threat to small electronics, but can be defended as ascii points out

04:33:09 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/36XB71V.txt )

04:33:09 BingoBoingo: !b 1

04:34:16 BingoBoingo: Who needs TEMPEST wen you window leaks screen contents

04:36:15 asciilifeform: http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/users/4296/uncle-al << apparently al schwartz is on 'stack exchange'...

04:36:16 assbot: User Uncle Al - Chemistry Stack Exchange

04:39:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re schedule: what aspect of your professional work demands irregular hours?

04:39:44 ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> ben_vulpes: The video wiggles only because the world does << yeah, but have you seen the de-wiggler in action?

04:39:46 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: multiple jobs, none of which have fixed hours as such

04:40:07 ben_vulpes: ah, i was only privy to the botnet inspector gig and NSA.

04:40:41 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "easy", but do you?

04:40:46 dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit

04:41:03 asciilifeform: which 'easy'

04:41:34 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: exercise and regularity of schedule << exercise, easy; regularity of schedule is a dream to me, on account of my profession.

04:41:40 decimation: lol http://washingtonexaminer.com/lights-out-house-plan-would-protect-nations-electricity-from-solar-flare-nuclear-bomb/article/2532038 << " Officials said that the legislation, provided in advance to Secrets, will include information from a recent EMP commission report that "contemporary U.S. society is not structured, nor does it have the means, to provide for the needs of nearly 300 million Americans without electricity.'':

04:41:41 assbot: Lights out: House plan would protect nation's electricity from solar flare, nuclear bomb | WashingtonExaminer.com

04:41:55 dub: my work week looks like ass for the rest of the year

04:42:29 asciilifeform: aha

04:42:47 dub: 22:00-03:00 4 nights a week

04:42:58 *: asciilifeform is not entirely innocent of exercise, is fond of walking around endlessly.

04:43:00 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Week I graduated college the world wiggled every other day. Maybe my life stalled out because it stopped???

04:43:08 decimation: I suspect that the fantasy-plans for "contingency usg" would be a hilarious read

04:43:30 BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform is not entirely innocent of exercise, is fond of walking around endlessly. << Walking is my escape plan

04:43:35 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: see robert sheckley's short story 'petrified world.'

04:44:01 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.american-buddha.com/sheckleycanyoufeel.3.htm

04:44:02 assbot: Can You Feel Anything When I Do This?, by Robert Sheckley

04:44:18 decimation: asciilifeform: also recommended by taleb. seems reasonable to do what humans have been doing for millennia

04:44:50 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo, asciilifeform: walking does not take one to the edge of the performance envelope.

04:44:54 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today an old colleague commented that i lost weight. Did not know the proper response to that.

04:45:05 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: It can

04:45:13 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "isn't it great?"

04:45:36 ben_vulpes: "can" is not "does"

04:45:48 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Edge is not always VO2MAX!!!

04:46:06 ben_vulpes: scusi?

04:47:34 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Consecutive days walking is a metric too, right?

04:48:21 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> bell is used by other people to ruin your sleep. in exchange for food & housing. << f/h can be had without signing that contract. contract that includes "bells" should carry a markup adequate to compensate for the interruption of critical bio processes

04:48:33 BingoBoingo: loll Torstein

04:48:56 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: many things 'can be had' in principle - e.g., mircea_popescu's kit.

04:49:02 asciilifeform: reduction to practice - another matter.

04:49:40 ben_vulpes: contract negotiation is where everything starts.

04:50:14 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't misunderstand the original gripe. the bell is annoying precisely because it rings - rarely.

04:50:21 BingoBoingo: No, sometimes contract happens before negotiation.

04:50:36 asciilifeform: the difference between 'rarely' and 'never' is often more palpable than between 'daily' and 'rarely.'

04:50:44 ben_vulpes: ah

04:50:47 ben_vulpes: i had misunderstood

04:51:29 *: asciilifeform merely dreams of living his built-in 26-hour circadian rhythm.

04:51:32 asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap

04:52:03 BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform merely dreams of living his built-in 26-hour circadian rhythm. << If I normalize I live on roughly 29 hour dyas

04:52:48 asciilifeform: 29 -> not so bad. resynches with non-mutants weekly or so.

04:52:54 BingoBoingo: Indeed

04:53:24 ben_vulpes: this natural schedule bs is bs

04:53:26 BingoBoingo: Winter though I have week long days. Summer I have day long weeks

04:53:37 ben_vulpes: sun comes up, mammals wake

04:53:42 ben_vulpes: sun goes down, mammals nap

04:53:48 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Oh, my schedule is anything but natural

04:53:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nope.

04:54:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ever meet a cat?

04:54:07 ben_vulpes: noctunrnes exluded

04:54:17 BingoBoingo: ;;google Five days with Freddie

04:54:17 gribble: Five Nights at Freddy's Windows game | Desura: http://www.desura.com/games/five-nights-at-freddys; Five Nights at Freddy's on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/319510/; Five Days At Freddy's| SCARIEST GAME EVER!| Night 1 - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSVYBdcVL0

04:55:06 BingoBoingo: I dunno that any advanced primate has a set schedule

04:55:36 asciilifeform: some folks have approximately 24h clock, think we're malingerers. what can i say.

04:56:15 ben_vulpes: hey i'm shoehorning my own cycle into the american business routine too asciilifeform

04:56:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Half the year I can make them feel lazy. Unfortunatley for me the half they aren't looking

04:56:58 ben_vulpes: although i never had the oportunity to discover what a "true" or "honest" cycle might look like, i just beat it until it submitted to what i wanted from my life

04:57:00 BingoBoingo: Back in JUly this year I had a week with 90 minutes of sleep

04:58:05 BingoBoingo: http://www.hulu.com/watch/615841#i0,p0,d0

04:58:05 assbot: Watch The Blacklist Online - Milton Bobbit | Hulu

05:00:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17541 @ 0.00076586 = 13.434 BTC [+] {3}

05:01:22 ben_vulpes: ;;ud jewgolf

05:01:23 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Westchester | mostly suburban county bordering the bronx to the south and fairfield county, ct to the north. largely perceived as a haven for wealthy investment bankers, ...

05:01:40 ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> What, like JewGolf? << dear sir please assplain yourself

05:02:12 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: What, you think the dark run the game of baskets?

05:02:22 BingoBoingo: Stern, Silver???

05:02:36 BingoBoingo: Jews run basketball.

05:03:52 BingoBoingo: Also the chance Wisconsin does not win out the rest of its schedule is so remote that people who want to bet on it need to bitc to the Big 1G

05:08:57 ben_vulpes: teh jooz run everything

05:09:04 ben_vulpes: cept bitcoin

05:09:58 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust Azelphur

05:09:59 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Azelphur!~Azelphur@azelphur.com. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Azelphur: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 6 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Azelphur | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Azelphur | Rated since: Mon Apr 9 00:11:58 2012

05:12:22 BingoBoingo: !up devthedev

05:16:54 Knot_Yeti: rar

05:17:08 decimation: hax!

05:17:25 Knot_Yeti: someone's paying attention...

05:18:06 Knot_Yeti: <KRS-1> Anyone care to share your thoughts on this article? I know many of you aren't America, but perhaps you can relate afterall. http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/11/10/the-continued-pussification-of-the-american-male/ << holy KRS-1

05:18:07 assbot: The Continued Pussification of the American Male

05:20:37 Knot_Yeti: <BingoBoingo> Fuck KC, I was hoping you'd have an StL solution. Or maybe CoMo << flat, no earthquakes, reliable oil for the gennies, it's in every american seven-niner's uptime plan

05:20:59 Knot_Yeti: lordy im having trouble putting this beer and grinder down

05:21:15 BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Also moar Niggers in the county PD

05:21:25 Knot_Yeti: dun matter for the dc

05:21:28 BingoBoingo: Ferguson could never liberate in KC

05:21:56 Knot_Yeti: !up upme_boolcrap

05:22:04 BingoBoingo: You have to remember I find Ladue Nigger central.

05:22:13 BingoBoingo: RUF is for the people

05:22:23 Knot_Yeti: you're making less sense than vexual

05:23:15 BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: No, I'm just saying STLCPD is a bunch of Niggers and the blacks in Ferguson deserve the right to lynch them\

05:24:26 Knot_Yeti: i certainly wouldn't know

05:24:45 BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Well of course you can't in Vanilla city

05:25:03 Knot_Yeti: but i'm not about to stand up for the assholes running bikers over while tapping on their wheelbox-mounted tablest

05:25:16 Knot_Yeti: Homogeneity City

05:25:25 mircea_popescu: Knot_Yeti who're you ?

05:25:41 Knot_Yeti: ;;ident

05:25:41 gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'Knot_Yeti', with hostmask 'Knot_Yeti!~user@unaffiliated/benkay', is identified as user 'ben_vulpes', with GPG key id 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA, key fingerprint 4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA, and bitcoin address None

05:25:50 mircea_popescu: lolk

05:26:30 BingoBoingo: I miss Bob Ross

05:27:18 mircea_popescu: i think im too young to know bob ross

05:27:22 Knot_Yeti: so who is this recruiter character?

05:27:36 Knot_Yeti: pahaha mircea_popescu old the notion

05:27:41 BingoBoingo: I saw bob ross and you've got a decade on me MP

05:27:43 Knot_Yeti: *young the notion

05:28:34 mircea_popescu: Knot_Yeti he's some guy working really hard at being halpful. im curious if it ends in tears, despair or great success.

05:28:56 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/38F6DB0.txt )

05:28:56 BingoBoingo: !b 1

05:29:23 mircea_popescu: o shoit, bob ross is the guy that "would you like a fresh towel" dude was trying to immitate.

05:29:32 BingoBoingo: Yeah

05:29:53 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTpttu6sqjw

05:29:53 assbot: Road Trip - ALL Rubin scenes - part 2 - YouTube

05:29:58 Knot_Yeti: <mircea_popescu> trustable btc hosting is probably in more demand atm << lotsa this

05:30:27 Knot_Yeti: but uninterruptible power, people on call 24/7, audited security procedures, remote hands...

05:31:10 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRhmNROtH44 << interesting to students of chemistry as well as noob machinists who would, had they not seen it, mounted Al shaft in PTFE bearing...

05:31:11 assbot: Teflon with aluminum reaction (flash explosion) - YouTube

05:31:35 mircea_popescu: !up frankenmint

05:31:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the worst that can happen

05:31:46 frankenmint: thanks

05:31:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the reaction pictured.

05:32:01 mircea_popescu: it's just a flesh wound

05:32:05 asciilifeform: lol

05:32:08 Knot_Yeti: flash wound

05:32:18 asciilifeform: flesh is cheap, fine machinery - costly.

05:32:29 asciilifeform: (there is always - more flesh.)

05:33:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today I had to explain my secret sauce for preserving great editions

05:34:13 mircea_popescu: decimation: 'peripheral' laser scanner << you mean the handheld shits ?

05:34:22 mircea_popescu: frankenmint sure. how goes ?

05:34:37 frankenmint: chillin whatchin chocolat

05:35:14 frankenmint: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0

05:35:14 assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?

05:35:23 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah the little 'pen' devices

05:35:23 frankenmint: found that felt like a loser for not doing a otc trade yet

05:35:36 mircea_popescu: decimation: it's true, I miss the contrast ratio for one thing << what i miss most about crts, believe it or not, is the shade.

05:35:51 mircea_popescu: a crt you can adjust to be as unluminous as you'd like. a lcd, no. has a minimum.

05:35:53 decimation: asciilifeform: would not want to breathe that smoke...

05:36:02 asciilifeform: shade >> yes!

05:36:04 mircea_popescu: frankenmint :p

05:36:21 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah a well-known defect of lcds. supposedly the new led-based displays will overcome this

05:36:37 mircea_popescu: i still have perfect vision, after decades with computors. i credit : a) low monitors and b) large fonts.

05:36:57 asciilifeform: decimation: OLED aging makes crt phosphours look indestructible.

05:37:08 mircea_popescu: well they hope they're fixing that

05:37:20 asciilifeform: lol why would 'they'.

05:37:21 mircea_popescu: prolly with some more rare earths nobody ever heard of and thatdon't really exist

05:37:55 asciilifeform: homo chumpiens isn't meant to keep his iPnohe for longer than a year, or the like.

05:38:11 mircea_popescu: lol homo chumpiens

05:38:14 mircea_popescu: that has staying powers.

05:38:33 mircea_popescu: lmao look at this, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.msg8133410#msg8133410

05:38:33 assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?

05:38:37 asciilifeform: pronounce as 'champions' for extra bite.

05:38:38 mircea_popescu: keep upo the good work, he says.

05:39:05 mircea_popescu: decimation: a good sweet watermelon is one of the pleasures of the end of summer << better if it comes with a pair of black girls.

05:39:22 mircea_popescu: or was it the girl with a pair of melons

05:39:28 mircea_popescu: hum. getting old, bad memory.

05:39:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that fellow grew a 15kg watermelon.

05:39:39 decimation: I miss the little wire shadows on my old trinitron

05:39:49 asciilifeform: i was there, we weighed it...

05:39:54 decimation: asciilifeform: that's amazing

05:39:54 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

05:40:04 mircea_popescu: alaska ?

05:40:13 asciilifeform: nah, here

05:41:43 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: that fellow grew a 15kg watermelon. << Grandpa wasted soil this year on 215 lb-is pumpkin

05:41:50 asciilifeform: neato

05:42:00 mircea_popescu: chalbersma: So what's next on this P2Pool server? << oblivion, quite likely.

05:42:07 decimation: specs on trinitron vs. lcd & plasma & dlp http://www.displaymate.com/ShootOut_Part_1.htm

05:42:09 assbot: Display Technology Shoot-Out Part I

05:42:17 BingoBoingo: A great number of groundhogs died for it though.

05:43:00 decimation: lcds have gotten better, just about 3 times worse than a trinitron crt (in its prime) in contrast

05:43:17 RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - he went to bed - was asking me how to proceed, but I was unavail. I'll invite him again tomorrow

05:43:45 decimation: I suspect that trinitrons are still in use for medical applications where resolution and contrast are critical

05:43:49 Knot_Yeti: decimation: pixel density tho

05:43:57 asciilifeform: decimation: probably all faded now.

05:44:02 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol honestly, may be overkill for this task. it's more of a small potatoes sort of thing to allow some eager kid to get his feet wet and get some ratings

05:44:12 asciilifeform: decimation: 'eizo' and 'barco' make almost usable lcds, for those applications

05:44:13 mircea_popescu: than for someone to try and senior developer all over it

05:44:18 RagnarDanneskjol: thats exactly what he is

05:44:30 RagnarDanneskjol: he's not senior - sent you his resume

05:44:32 *: asciilifeform owns a few 'eizo'

05:44:50 decimation: ben_vulpes: yeah you are right the resolution on modern lcds is 'better'

05:45:12 asciilifeform: the last trinitron knockoff, afaik, rolled off the conveyor in early '09.

05:45:27 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i guess that may explain the vague approach. alrighty, we talk more tomorro or w/e, see what he wants to do.

05:45:36 RagnarDanneskjol: k

05:45:46 asciilifeform: (somewhere in china, ntsc/pal picture tubes are still made. you don't want these.)

05:45:57 decimation: heh probably no shielding

05:46:04 asciilifeform: 600 lines.

05:46:29 frankenmint: ok irl calls laterz

05:46:54 decimation: I suppose for the paupers who just need a screen cheap crt is cheaper than lcd

05:47:05 asciilifeform: was.

05:47:08 mircea_popescu: no it's not ?

05:47:26 mircea_popescu: an extra sq ft of floor space = cost.

05:47:29 *: asciilifeform can't find a usable crt for $maxint

05:47:49 mircea_popescu: dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit << you broke it, you buy it.

05:47:55 asciilifeform: (21+ in., trinitron, virginal)

05:48:12 mircea_popescu: how the fuck are you going to find virginal trinitrons, haven't been made for two decades

05:48:31 decimation: one that was 'new in box' forgotten in some attic?

05:48:35 asciilifeform: don't be so quick to say 'never.' i went recently to a junk peddler, he has a sealed in box 'vic-20.'

05:49:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00076902 = 8.9975 BTC [+]

05:49:19 asciilifeform: same as the proverbial century-old wine bottles.

05:49:28 asciilifeform: 'how can it exist, someone'd have drunk it up'

05:49:34 dub: mircea_popescu: I saw an ad on bitcoinity and wtfd

05:49:52 dub: appears to be some goog propaganda

05:49:52 mircea_popescu: you don't understand asciilifeform. europe sits on a lake of wine the size of michigan

05:50:50 BingoBoingo: And nao you're going to tell me Agent Broachwala loves the Jewish state in the Levant....

05:50:58 KODE_YETI: <upme_boolcrap> auxiliary wives << redundancy

05:51:28 BingoBoingo: Today canned commenters called Ferguson protesters terrorists

05:51:43 KODE_YETI: asciilifeform: obtain and install << lolya and maintain

05:51:43 decimation: lol http://www.eizo.com/global/products/radiforce/gx540/index.html#tab02 << monitors need to be approved by FDA?

05:51:46 assbot: RadiForce GX540 | EIZO

05:52:02 asciilifeform: lol i have that one!

05:52:08 mircea_popescu: nom nom nom

05:52:14 decimation: contrast ratio only 1.2k

05:52:15 asciilifeform: the gov. approval thing is for use in surgeries

05:52:22 decimation: 10x worse than trinitron

05:52:42 BingoBoingo: ;;google hanley blockade terrorists

05:52:42 gribble: Military counter-intelligence unit monitored Elsipogtog anti-fracking ...: http://warriorpublications.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/military-counter-intelligence-unit-monitored-elsipogtog-anti-fracking-protests-documents/; Ferguson Highway Blockade Roundup (5:33PM CDT): http://justinspoliticalcorner.tumblr.com/post/97170352027/ferguson-highway-blockade-roundup-5-33pm-cdt; (1 more message)

05:52:48 asciilifeform: that's a bit unfair. trinitron ~= theoretically infinite contrast ratio (save the odd stray electron)

05:53:27 decimation: well, I don't deny that resolution is important too

05:53:39 asciilifeform: (actually never mind, i have an earlier 'radiforce' in other room, 1600x1200)

05:53:40 decimation: but it seems that our 'upgraded' lcd displays lack what we had in the past

05:53:52 KODE_YETI: all i know is pressed shitboard

05:54:04 asciilifeform: the 14-bit monochrome 'eizos' are quite unlike ordinary lcd

05:54:11 asciilifeform: you can use them in a sunlit room, for instance.

05:54:23 KODE_YETI: hey who is upme_boolcrap ?

05:54:27 KODE_YETI: ;;gettrust upme_boolcrap

05:54:28 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user upme_boolcrap: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=upme_boolcrap | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=upme_boolcrap | Rated since: never

05:54:53 asciilifeform: KODE_YETI: he's b00lcrap

05:55:00 asciilifeform: a fellow i know in meatspace.

05:55:05 KODE_YETI: ah yeah

05:55:08 KODE_YETI: hence keys comments


05:55:20 KODE_YETI: you're the only one so cursed

05:55:58 asciilifeform: (or drunken impostor. don't lose keys, people will wonder.)

05:56:10 BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: I have a masters degree in Library Science. This is not cursed. This is totally fucked by American Standards.

05:56:21 KODE_YETI: oh shit ozbot is totally still online

05:56:31 BingoBoingo: ozbot is.

05:56:44 KODE_YETI: DUDE

05:57:38 asciilifeform: fbi stories >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2014#804607

05:57:39 assbot: Logged on 22-08-2014 02:36:18; asciilifeform: 'The smell of diborane is known to a few experimenters, but they cannot tell us what it is.'

05:57:45 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (or drunken impostor. don't lose keys, people will wonder.) << This

05:57:57 KODE_YETI: <decimation> lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :) << i dedicate my largest screen to emacs

05:58:34 KODE_YETI: <decimation> so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand? << asciilifeform u fukn metal

05:58:46 decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah my pinky is starting to ache

05:59:08 KODE_YETI: decimation: capslock remap on os x

05:59:23 BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: OSX is blaspemy

05:59:36 KODE_YETI: the "command" key on this altop has a hole in its black coating due to meta use

05:59:43 BingoBoingo: OSX is as much blasphemy as the devil

05:59:58 KODE_YETI: BingoBoingo: i just run emacs on whatever, man

06:00:01 BingoBoingo: And by devil I mean systemd

06:00:07 KODE_YETI: "os" be damned, emacs is my os

06:00:19 decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah but my pinky wants to hit shift instead of caps-lock, need to deactivate ctrl key

06:00:23 BingoBoingo: Well, work on emacs chip

06:00:31 KODE_YETI: greenarrays

06:00:41 KODE_YETI: forth -> lisp -> life

06:00:47 BingoBoingo: Work hard.

06:00:52 BingoBoingo: In my field.

06:01:03 BingoBoingo: Bring the cotton out to be sole.

06:01:09 KODE_YETI: i only work when there are $CURRENCY_UNITS on the table

06:01:26 BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Then explain VAN

06:01:31 KODE_YETI: lessons learned.

06:01:44 BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Can be leanrt maor

06:01:59 KODE_YETI: learn maori

06:02:37 BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Sorry I'm working on being trans ethic for useful ethicities

06:02:47 decimation: maori will help you negotiate with the british

06:02:58 KODE_YETI: and i'm working on stumbling home. nite all!

06:03:10 asciilifeform: 'North, north-by-east, nor'-nor'-east, nor'-east-by-north, north-east, colony?Attention! / Come to tea, all the men, round the niu?Attention!'

06:03:35 asciilifeform: (maori, obligatory, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pai_M%C4%81rire#The_chants )

06:03:36 assbot: Pai Mrire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

06:06:01 BingoBoingo: ;;Knicker

06:06:01 gribble: Error: "Knicker" is not a valid command.

06:06:05 decimation: asciilifeform: lol

06:07:06 BingoBoingo: <decimation> maori will help you negotiate with the british << Didn't you hear??? Moiety Starved. Scottish is NOT profitab le..

06:07:48 BingoBoingo: And I just passed 4 liters of fart gas right nao.

06:09:40 BingoBoingo: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -3 confusion, correctable. In the interim What the Fuck's Sake

06:09:41 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user RagnarDanneskjol has changed from 2 to -3.

06:10:04 mircea_popescu: later gang.

06:10:06 RagnarDanneskjol: ??

06:10:47 RagnarDanneskjol: care to elaborate

06:11:58 BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Just confusion between parties you've sold pool too and people you've offered to sell pool

06:12:12 BingoBoingo: Margin for clearing this is very low

06:12:13 RagnarDanneskjol: I am not selling anyhting

06:12:22 RagnarDanneskjol: I just identify talent

06:12:33 RagnarDanneskjol: perhaps you misunderstand mu role

06:12:35 BingoBoingo: No, You don't sell things. You sell people.

06:12:41 RagnarDanneskjol: I am doing all this pro bono btw

06:12:53 BingoBoingo: I think I understand, but I may misunderstand

06:13:12 RagnarDanneskjol: yes, I'm sure you do

06:13:57 BingoBoingo: That is incredibly likely. The world is fucked. California is falling off of the world.

06:14:15 RagnarDanneskjol: please explain how I created confusion

06:14:59 RagnarDanneskjol: if you'll read the emails I copied you on I have been quite clear - and ask if any clarification is required...crickets

06:23:01 BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: I dunno that you aren't trustworthy, I apparently was lead though (prolly by bad actors) to believe though that you are much older than you are.

06:23:57 RagnarDanneskjol: I am 33. Have been a recruiter since I was 18. what the hell does that have to do with it

06:24:31 dub: A similar belief in the mystical power to avert bullets had earlier been reported among Islamic groups in Africa and Asia[7] and America, such as the Ghost Shirt Movement.

06:26:03 RagnarDanneskjol: BingoBoingo - You know for a fact I made efforts to gain better clarity between parties from our pm earlier. All the recruitment I have done for b-a has been out of the kindness of my heart (which is a lot btw in terms of time spent - well over 60 hrs)

06:26:17 dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion

06:26:21 BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Much of the present irrelevant doubt, as opposed to relevant doubt connects to harvest of this irrelevant shit\

06:26:57 RagnarDanneskjol: are you drinking?

06:27:16 BingoBoingo: Yes, are you not?

06:27:22 dub: what do we do sahib? idk boss pray shiney sky rocks don't kil us

06:27:35 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1Y3RRJX.txt )

06:27:35 BingoBoingo: !b 1

06:28:24 RagnarDanneskjol: ;;rate BingoBoingo -1 erroneous negrating under the influence

06:28:25 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user BingoBoingo has been recorded.

06:29:09 dub: RUI?

06:31:27 fluffypony: hah hah

06:31:33 fluffypony: took me a few minutes to get that

06:40:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24550 @ 0.00076417 = 18.7604 BTC [-] {2}

07:22:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.0007665 = 13.6437 BTC [+] {2}

07:49:13 KODE_YETI: ratings cannot be erroneous

07:49:43 KODE_YETI: and RagnarDanneskjol can't in2 dat variety

07:54:38 RagnarDanneskjol: erroneous in that the reasons cited have no basis in reality. but good point

08:46:57 Apocalyptic: such rating drama

08:58:11 fluffypony: ;:rate Apocalyptic -2832837297193912 just because drama

08:58:26 Apocalyptic: dat fluffypony

08:58:30 fluffypony: :-P

09:00:27 Apocalyptic: how's monero these days ?

09:03:36 fluffypony: good

09:03:40 fluffypony: got it working on FreeBSD

09:03:45 fluffypony: all compiles except gtest that explodes

09:04:42 punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao!

09:05:06 fluffypony: such trade

09:08:55 punkman: fluffypony: there was some pool site that had XMR, but it linked to some bitmonero thing

09:09:09 punkman: what's with all these clones

09:09:09 fluffypony: pool site?

09:10:02 fluffypony: bitmonero == monero, the guy that launched it wanted merged mining and other bullshit, the community voted against it, he tried to put it in anyway, so we forked it away from him into Monero

09:10:14 fluffypony: also because Monero = coin in Esperanto, so Bitmonero literally means Bitcoin

09:10:18 fluffypony: which is kinda stupid

09:10:24 punkman: oic

09:14:01 punkman: mining side looks like botnet heaven

09:25:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.0007668 = 29.3684 BTC [+] {2}

09:26:18 fluffypony: punkman: indeed - although the GPU miners are starting to ramp up a bit

09:26:59 punkman: is it even 50% faster with GPU?

09:27:31 fluffypony: faster yes, but performance-per-watt is really how you want to measure it

09:27:58 punkman: right, aren't the CPUs better in that regard?

09:27:59 fluffypony: and in that respect CryptoNight achieves its stated goal of reducing the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, and ASICs

09:28:17 fluffypony: for the moment yes

09:28:33 fluffypony: we're not at the upper bound of GPU performance, although we're reasonably close

09:28:46 xmj: fluffypony: how are you getting along with the FreeBSD port? :)

09:29:03 fluffypony: xmj: it's done, it compiles and works, the only thing I'm fighting with are some stupid oddities in the testing code

09:29:06 punkman: are you the guy that funded that kid with the miner optimizations?

09:29:13 xmj: fluffypony: nice!

09:29:26 fluffypony: xmj: http://i.imgur.com/3SvgH3a.png

09:29:32 xmj: fluffypony: did you put it in net-p2p/bitmonero?

09:29:32 fluffypony: punkman: no?

09:29:48 fluffypony: xmj: once I'm done fixing tests and I've committed the changes to master I will

09:30:18 xmj: neat

09:30:38 fluffypony: oh punkman - are you talking about dga?

09:30:39 xmj: fluffypony: here have a link: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/book.html#makefile-master_sites-github-description

09:30:42 fluffypony: he's not a kid :)

09:30:48 fluffypony: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dga/cv.pdf

09:30:58 fluffypony: xmj: cool got it

09:30:59 *: xmj goes back to fiddling with Subversion

09:31:08 xmj: ...and django, and uwsgi, and $crap

09:32:21 fluffypony: here we go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg7987642#msg7987642

09:32:21 assbot: rpietila Altcoin Observer

09:32:33 fluffypony: "Note that GPUs *do* outperform CPUs, of course -- it's just that it's only a factor of two or three. Which is pretty remarkable. And an ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge."

09:33:01 xmj: wait.. what?

09:33:12 fluffypony: xmj: Monero's PoW

09:33:14 xmj: ah

09:33:34 *: xmj goes back to fiddling with stuff... f'realz

09:34:16 punkman: fluffypony: oooh, he was all like "back to school" and I assumed <20

09:35:01 fluffypony: lol I know

09:35:16 fluffypony: oh well, even associate professors at CMU have to make money somehow :-P

09:48:07 punkman: fluffypony: was reading that blogpost again, got an idea. Someone should come up with quirky PoW, and manufacture a hardware miner before launching the coin. Then they slowly ramp up the hashrate, start selling the hardware when profits level off.

09:49:46 fluffypony: 90% of the time when there's a quirky PoW it's inevitably a scam

09:49:51 fluffypony: not all the time

09:49:52 fluffypony: but often

10:01:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.0007622 = 17.683 BTC [-] {2}

10:09:33 fluffypony: xmj: help plx

10:09:41 xmj: with?

10:09:51 fluffypony: ok so I'm trying to create the Makefile

10:10:01 fluffypony: and looking at Bitcoin's one it seems overly complex

10:10:31 fluffypony: I mean, the USE_GITHUB stuff means that I really only need 5 lines, and it builds out the box

10:10:37 xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools

10:10:59 xmj: it has port(1), which can do `port create`, and `port test`

10:11:17 xmj: it used to have port submit, but that died with GNATS and send-pr(1)

10:11:35 xmj: also, i maintain it, so if you find any bugs i can fix them on the fly...:p

10:11:41 fluffypony: lol ok cool

10:11:49 fluffypony: so once it's created how will I submit it?

10:11:51 fluffypony: manually?

10:12:00 xmj: you create a shar like so:

10:12:07 xmj: cd /usr/ports/net-p2p

10:12:28 xmj: shar `find bitmonero` > bitmonero__$version.shar

10:13:13 xmj: then you file a bug with bugzilla -- https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Ports%20Tree

10:13:15 assbot: Log in to Bugzilla

10:13:39 xmj: and give it some description like [NEW PORT] net-p2p/bitmonero: [include COMMENT= from Makefile here]

10:14:37 xmj: once you're done with that you can assign it to me and i'll take it from there

10:14:45 fluffypony: ok cool

10:16:35 xmj: yup

10:17:26 xmj: before you submit, try `make check-plist` to see if there's anything missing in pkg-plist, and `make package` to see if there's anything that is in pkg-plist that's not actually built into the package

10:17:42 xmj: that's, like, the crashcourse in FreeBSD port maintainership. :)

10:18:28 fluffypony: lol

10:18:30 fluffypony: got it

10:31:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15972 @ 0.00076522 = 12.2221 BTC [+]

10:46:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8828 @ 0.00076524 = 6.7555 BTC [+] {2}

10:52:31 danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/Beautyon_/status/509986011360030720

10:52:32 assbot: I would very much enjoy reading Mircea Popescu's reply to the letter in this post: http://t.co/MndDYtNb9w < you can imagine the SPANK!

10:55:37 xmj: fluffypony: how good will 30GHash/s butterfly labs ASICs work with bitmonero?

10:56:07 fluffypony: xmj: it won't at all, it's a different PoW

10:56:17 xmj: i see

10:56:40 xmj: friend of mine's got a spare, doesn't know what to do with it

11:00:40 xmj: hm

11:00:44 xmj: http://www.nzz.ch/mehr/digital/libertaere-visionaere-aus-crypto-valley-1.18380940

11:00:45 assbot: Zuger Internet-Unternehmer: Libertre Visionre aus Crypto Valley - Digital Nachrichten - NZZ.ch

11:01:00 xmj: that one points out johann gevers, south african digital crypto stuff entrepreneur

11:01:05 xmj: is he a name one should recognize?

11:05:50 fluffypony: never heard of him

11:06:42 fluffypony: http://monetas.net/team/

11:06:43 assbot: Monetas – Team

11:06:53 fluffypony: if it's that guy then he's in Switzerland

11:06:58 fluffypony: maybe born in ZA

11:07:25 fluffypony: the only guys in ZA that have done anything notable are the BitX guys, but meh

11:07:33 xmj: but meh

11:55:15 []bot: Bet placed: 3.00640086 BTC for Yes on "Under 15% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1032/ Odds: 97(Y):3(N) by coin, 97(Y):3(N) by weight. Total bet: 10.25130486 BTC. Current weight: 86,761.

12:08:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00076749 = 7.5214 BTC [+]

12:08:53 RagnarDanneskjol: http://dangerousprototypes.com/2014/09/11/video-jtagulator-introduction-and-demonstration/

12:08:54 assbot: Video: JTAGulator introduction and demonstration | Dangerous Prototypes

12:18:29 punkman: http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/10/wtf-is-a-u2/

12:18:29 assbot: Apple Just Uploaded A U2 Album To Your iPhone And iPad — And Seriously, WTF | TechCrunch

12:18:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00076749 = 6.9842 BTC [+]

12:25:53 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo didja just drunkrate RagnarDanneskjol or what was that

12:27:11 mircea_popescu: dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion << quite. just like the forum retards, the general response of the primitive mind to "o boy, this guy's so much better than you, better learn how to suck cock" is "lalala i can't hear anything"

12:28:28 mircea_popescu: punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao! << dare i ask what xmr is or would that spoil the whole trader thing.

12:29:16 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

12:29:18 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 471.6, Best ask: 472.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.82000, Last trade: 472.45, 24 hour volume: 9612.17705410, 24 hour low: 470.1, 24 hour high: 491.0, 24 hour vwap: 481.983602007

12:31:04 punkman: mircea_popescu: that monero thing

12:31:09 mircea_popescu: oh i c

12:31:18 mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge. << if this is per watt, wouldn't it be quite huge ?

12:31:45 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: not for CryptoNight, no

12:32:04 fluffypony: CPUs perform well if they have AES-NI

12:32:11 fluffypony: which is most of the modern ones

12:32:43 dub: mircea_popescu: there's also the problem of motivating a guy holding a stick to charge at muskets

12:32:55 mircea_popescu: what i mean is, i'm a kid with a computer, i have to pay $200 for a new video card, and each watt gives me 1 thing. this other kid pays $500 for a consumer asic, each watt gives him... 5 things. the price of a thing will reflect this, going to ~1/4 the price of a watt, making me able to buy a lot more things for my $200 directly than i'd get mining ?

12:33:12 mircea_popescu: dub that's a solved problem, as you describe

12:33:21 mircea_popescu: which explains exactly the adaptive value of idiocy in large groups.

12:33:39 mircea_popescu: that's the problem with the human species : that because we're monkeys, which means we use young men as basically building material

12:33:44 mircea_popescu: idiocy is socially valuable.

12:34:05 mircea_popescu: as individually poisonous as it may be.

12:34:33 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yes - but that's a capex cost, we're discussing the opex cost. At some point in the future when there actually are ASICs I suppose a ratio could be shown that includes the amortised cost of the hardware over time or something

12:34:54 punkman: aren't there plenty off-the-shelf hardware AES implementations?

12:35:00 mircea_popescu: fluffypony but my point here is as to market price, which really rarely reflects opex over capex

12:35:19 fluffypony: punkman: it's not the only thing it uses

12:35:58 mircea_popescu: i mean don't get me wrong, active experimental research in "o yeah, those asics are that cool ?" is quite valuable and a good use of one's time.

12:36:16 mircea_popescu: and i guess if 5x is the best so far then it's the best so far, and that's what it is

12:36:30 mircea_popescu: but i would have suspected 1.5x ish is more the range where it could be borne economically

12:38:36 fluffypony: punkman: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yoovsi0gk9n88a/cryptonight_tmp.pdf

12:38:37 assbot: Dropbox - cryptonight_tmp.pdf

12:38:40 fluffypony: if you're really interested in the inner workings

12:38:50 mircea_popescu: (this based on history of human tech, the speed of difussion of tech inovations as a function of their added efficiency. for instance the iron plow was about 7-8x more efficient than the shit it replaced, and it took over practically in the same generation. meanwhile longbows were not 2x more effectual over cataphracts, and they took about a century to take over)

12:39:38 punkman: these cryptonote guys seem dedicated to crapcoins: https://cryptonote.org/coins/

12:39:38 assbot: CryptoNote Currencies

12:40:39 punkman: heh step-by-step instructions for forking https://cryptonotestarter.org/inner.html

12:40:39 assbot: CryptoNote currency forking guide

12:41:55 jurov: xmj try altcoin?

12:42:14 mircea_popescu: "It is designed to have zero commercial value since its genesis block is replaced every 2 months." this is a pretty good way to do it, actually.

12:42:20 jurov: with the friend's miner i mean

12:43:51 mircea_popescu: "This coin's enthusiasts contribute to the applied aspects of the CryptoNote technology. It has been launched as a fork of Bytecoin in April 2014. Bitmonero/Monero was subject to a quarrel among the community members on the choice of name. Nevertheless, its contribution is valuable to CryptoNote?s popularization. Moreover, it has the fastest block generation speed of 1 minute."

12:43:58 mircea_popescu: lmao that's relevant i'm sure.

12:44:40 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you feel like reading up on all this crap and produce a summary ? but i mean a good one, like a disertation level thing.

12:46:47 mircea_popescu: " but assuming you accept its technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks, in favor of a balance between CPU, GPU, and ASICs)" << stuff like that sounds like a total ouch.

12:47:15 mircea_popescu: fluffypony is your 5x estimate arrived at through some process or just taken from dga ?

12:47:21 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: just taken from dga

12:48:22 fluffypony: the block flooding DoS attack doesn't work with Monero, at least not that we've been able to simulate

12:48:28 mircea_popescu: why is that ?

12:48:30 fluffypony: it's too aggressive in its consensus code

12:48:44 mircea_popescu: can you model this for me ?

12:48:45 fluffypony: it graylists peers that try submit a bad block

12:48:57 mircea_popescu: can i use this to graylist everyone ?

12:49:06 fluffypony: yes, but graylists expire

12:49:09 fluffypony: eventually

12:49:22 mircea_popescu: seems like moving the goalpost, it's still a dos

12:49:45 fluffypony: the point of the DoS is to burn CPU cycles and tie up the CPU of a peer

12:50:01 mircea_popescu: dos is dos, as long as you can't use a service because of a 3rd party it's a denial of service.

12:50:05 fluffypony: if you just want to DDoS them from a bandwidth perspective there are easier ways like LOIC

12:50:23 fluffypony: well that's what I'm saying - the block flooding DoS doesn't work

12:50:27 fluffypony: a LOIC attack woudl work

12:50:37 mircea_popescu: but it does work i nthe sense of, graylist dos.

12:50:39 fluffypony: or a SYN flood even

12:50:56 *: fluffypony shakes head

12:51:01 mircea_popescu: which way lol

12:51:04 mircea_popescu: i can't see you :D

12:51:05 fluffypony: you can't reconnect as a new IP fast enough

12:51:12 fluffypony: in other words

12:51:17 fluffypony: I have 12 peers connected to me

12:51:19 mircea_popescu: you can't ? (i dunno, i'm asking)

12:51:38 fluffypony: when I graylist you then you have to reconnect to me from a new peer and submit a bad block

12:51:41 fluffypony: rinse-repeat

12:51:46 mircea_popescu: this isn't what i meant earlier.

12:52:01 mircea_popescu: can i craft blocks and announce them so that the entire fucking network ends up graylisting each other

12:52:23 fluffypony: no

12:52:27 fluffypony: you'll get graylisted

12:52:34 fluffypony: nobody will rebroadcast it

12:52:38 fluffypony: so you get isolated

12:52:49 mircea_popescu: but in the interval where people stil don

12:52:53 mircea_popescu: t know yet if the block is any good ?

12:53:25 jurov: mircea_popescu: so you send bad block to everyone at once, yes?

12:53:27 fluffypony: in the 0.03 seconds it takes the peer to verify the block you won't even have completed the handshake to send another block

12:53:41 mircea_popescu: " technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks"

12:53:48 jurov: everyone is DoSed for 0.03 seconds and you're graylisted

12:53:50 mircea_popescu: fluffypony so are you basically saying he's just talking nonsense ?

12:54:02 fluffypony: no, we theorised that the attack was possible

12:54:06 mircea_popescu: jurov i dunno, i'm trying to clarify this claim.

12:54:27 jurov: fluffypony: what about ipv6? practically unlimited number of addresses

12:54:27 mircea_popescu: fluffypony ok, so if we accept this avenue exists, then a blacklisting scheme would not logically be expected to resolve it, just move the problem.

12:54:37 mircea_popescu: this is a purely logical approach, i have nfi of how it practically works

12:54:41 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: well Bitcoin's solution to the problem is to use SHA2

12:54:45 fluffypony: so that less CPU is burnt

12:54:48 fluffypony: for the same attack

12:54:56 fluffypony: both are equally "susceptible"

12:54:59 mircea_popescu: yes

12:55:10 fluffypony: so the mitigation is the same

12:55:19 mircea_popescu: so basically you're saying the technical tradeoff in question isn' treally trading anything worth the menton.

12:55:24 fluffypony: yes

12:55:27 mircea_popescu: aha okay.

12:56:01 mircea_popescu: i can arrive at a formulation of what the op thinks that i can integrate, it just takes an op that can answer questions for long enough :D

12:56:15 fluffypony: lol

12:56:26 fluffypony: welcome to b-a :-P

12:57:16 mircea_popescu: thanks i plan to spend a lot of time here

12:57:23 fluffypony: you really should

12:57:40 fluffypony: sometimes there is even pronz in the channel

12:57:50 fluffypony: and indian girls looking for free flight tickets

12:58:38 mircea_popescu: oh my

12:58:51 mircea_popescu: ;;google wolves and bears of my

12:58:52 gribble: Natural Trap Cave: prehistoric lions, dire wolves, and bears, oh my ...: http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0724/Natural-Trap-Cave-prehistoric-lions-dire-wolves-and-bears-oh-my; Lions and gray wolves and bears? Oh, my! | News-Gazette.com: http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2014-08-26/lions-and-gray-wolves-and-bears-oh-my.html; Cougars and wolves and bears...oh my - (1 more message)

12:59:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00076799 = 14.9758 BTC [+] {2}

12:59:37 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etx-nDCZzLo

12:59:37 assbot: Judy Garland: Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my! (The Wizard Of Oz, 1939) - YouTube

12:59:42 mircea_popescu: here we go, useless bumgle.

12:59:49 fluffypony: lol

13:01:23 mircea_popescu: lions in the fucking forest. huzzah for all teh lernin'.

13:01:29 thestringpuller: today mircea_popescu exhibits symptoms of amnesia

13:02:15 mircea_popescu: anyway this dga fellow should be here. someone invite him

13:04:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19301957 = 0.9651 BTC [+] {3}

13:04:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825979 << this is like the first intelligent thing i've seen xmj say, but it is impressive.

13:04:26 assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 10:10:37; xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools

13:04:51 mircea_popescu: (i mean the whole monologue, not just the one line)

13:05:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.194815 = 1.1689 BTC [+] {5}

13:05:39 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/qEfxrXP.gif

13:05:55 nubbins`: my sides

13:06:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19703837 = 0.9852 BTC [+] {5}

13:07:21 fluffypony: nubbins`: at least they're being useful and helping with cleaning

13:07:32 nubbins`: nod

13:07:43 nubbins`: Swiffer PetJet

13:08:12 nubbins`: another one here somewhere

13:08:41 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/sXZux7B

13:08:42 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

13:09:37 nubbins`: what's the word for when something is made to look like a human?

13:09:41 nubbins`: tip of my tongue

13:10:13 nubbins`: anthropomorphism

13:10:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00076749 = 9.7087 BTC [-]

13:10:39 fluffypony: I was going to go for greenpeace

13:10:45 fluffypony: O.o

13:11:14 nubbins`: orcapomorphism

13:11:23 nubbins`: wait

13:11:26 nubbins`: orcamorphism?

13:11:37 punkman: aye

13:12:08 mircea_popescu: o hay beautyon_ ! Le never fails to unintentionally entertain, but really, that's one you should prolly blog.

13:14:02 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/qEfxrXP.gif <<< bwahhah cat magnet

13:14:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11593 @ 0.00076749 = 8.8975 BTC [-]

13:15:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.199 = 0.796 BTC [+]

13:15:58 nubbins`: :D

13:21:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.22 = 0.88 BTC [+] {3}

13:22:44 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/7acf8dba23117cd363e41e8f5d25581c/tumblr_mzo97lKriP1rhup7qo1_400.gif someone said something of pronz.

13:54:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2010101 = 0.603 BTC [-] {2}

13:59:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 47 @ 0.19315992 = 9.0785 BTC [-] {5}

14:01:37 thestringpuller: when will assbot have !bait

14:01:40 thestringpuller: !bait

14:01:42 thestringpuller: :(

14:02:09 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/b56dc09335df5284be9ffc571b1b2a3e/tumblr_mn5gg0b2Ki1r28s53o1_1280.png here.

14:03:32 thestringpuller: yay!

14:11:10 assbot: kolinko +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

14:13:03 mircea_popescu: !up kolinko

14:16:04 mircea_popescu: kolinko np. what brings you here ?

14:16:53 mircea_popescu: (you the appcodes kolinko ?)

14:16:58 kolinko: yes

14:17:05 kolinko: I founded Orisi two months ago (orisi.org) - it's a framework for building smart contracts

14:17:09 mircea_popescu: if you prove that i'll rate you, then you can self voice

14:17:31 kolinko: cool, will do that in a few minutes

14:18:24 kolinko: and I'm thinking of building a bitcoin smart contract for put/call options

14:18:42 mircea_popescu: the contract ain';t the problem there.

14:19:09 kolinko: what's the problem then?

14:20:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2319997 = 0.696 BTC [-]

14:21:37 kolinko: (the idea is that a smart contract would be protected by a set of trustworthy individuals - no reliance on a single point of failure)

14:22:19 mircea_popescu: kolinko http://fraudsters.com/2014/mpoe-february-2014-statement/ read the misc section.

14:22:20 assbot: MPOE, February 2014 Statement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

14:22:39 mircea_popescu: and when you're done with that, to put things in perspective for you, mpex carried about 1mn total btc worth of options over a coupla years.

14:24:36 RagnarDanneskjol: also, 'trustworthy' is rather subjective

14:25:01 mircea_popescu: a "single point of failure" is a trustworthy individual by definition anyway.

14:25:12 kolinko: mircea_popescu - confirmation that I'm the appcodes kolinko: twitter.com/kolinko

14:25:24 RagnarDanneskjol: haha

14:25:25 mircea_popescu: ;;rate kolinko appcodes guy

14:25:26 gribble: Error: 'appcodes' is not a valid integer.

14:25:30 mircea_popescu: ;;rate kolinko 1 appcodes guy

14:25:31 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kolinko has been recorded.

14:25:45 mircea_popescu: kolinko id with gribble, pm assbot !up you get voice.

14:25:57 RagnarDanneskjol: oh i see nao

14:28:08 kolinko: mircea: I'll read the misc in a sec. as for your volume - I know it well - I'm your user since 2012 iirc

14:29:01 kolinko: the idea for the distributed contract was that if I want to build a business that relies on options, such a business shouldn't rely on a single individual/company

14:29:27 mircea_popescu: the problem with this approach is that if they're to be trusted they're sops by definition, and vice-versa.

14:30:08 kolinko: well, but if we had a panel of 15 trustworthy individuals, with a consensus of more than 50% of them required to release the fund

14:30:23 mircea_popescu: sybil attacks, and why would they be arsed to care about your needs.

14:30:41 mircea_popescu: these aren't simple problems, and they're unsimple for fundamental reasons, it's not a matter of implementation.

14:30:52 mircea_popescu: circle cvadrature is not a question of "get better draing tools"

14:31:10 mircea_popescu: drawing*

14:31:48 kolinko: well, sybil attack is really only a problem in systems that rely on anonymous parties

14:32:03 kolinko: as for why would be they arsed - for provision/payment of course

14:32:11 jurov: lol how would panel of 15 trustworthy individuals come up with bitcoin vwap to be used for option exercises?

14:32:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6683 @ 0.00076749 = 5.1291 BTC [-]

14:32:54 mircea_popescu: you are wrong in the first. sybil attacks are a problem on all systems that rely on identity to any degree.

14:32:55 kolinko: the same way it happens now with centralised systems?

14:32:58 mircea_popescu: in any form and in any way.

14:33:27 mircea_popescu: and the arsed problem is not something to brush aside. the better your sybil protection, the more expensive their pointless expense.

14:33:32 mircea_popescu: so they won't be arsed.

14:33:34 jurov: kolinko it currently does not happen, that's the problem

14:33:51 mircea_popescu: jurov well... it happened with libor :D

14:33:58 mircea_popescu: lotta trusted parties involved there. lulz.

14:34:55 kolinko: jurov: the idea is that you agree on an algorithm beforehand, and everyone uses the same one

14:34:56 mircea_popescu: anyway, sybil attacks are specifically not a problem in anon systems. if you go for a romp in a gay cinema, to be fucked by a random man, it makes no difference to you who fucks you, so you can't be sybil'd by definition.

14:35:18 kolinko: lol

14:35:25 mircea_popescu: lol all you will, tis true :)

14:35:32 kolinko: :)

14:35:56 ThickAsThieves: trust is a commodity

14:36:07 mircea_popescu: now, if you want to go back and get diddled by THE SAME GUY AS LAST TIME, you're in for it.

14:36:11 ThickAsThieves: it can be sold out anytime

14:36:49 ThickAsThieves: just sometimes the price aint what it seems

14:36:54 kolinko: what I meant is - if you have a system of 15 parties, each one of them signing messages with their own gpg keys, that can be quite secure against the sybil attack. the attacker would have to steal keys of 8 independent parties.

14:37:01 mircea_popescu: people tend to easily forget what identity means. here it is : =. every time you're using an equality sign, numerical, logical or otherwise you're relying on identity. cuz that's what it is.

14:37:02 kolinko: collution between parties is another matter of course

14:37:17 mircea_popescu: kolinko no, because how do you get the 15 parties ?

14:37:28 mircea_popescu: what if one wants to join ? were they 8 at some point ? 6 ?

14:37:36 ThickAsThieves: collusion + pollution = collution?

14:37:43 mircea_popescu: if god gave us 15 pilars then that'd be that

14:37:45 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lmao

14:38:54 mircea_popescu: kolinko if you have a process to go from 1 party to two, then you have a sybil problem. and to have 15 you necessarily must have had that process.

14:39:12 kolinko: not necessarily

14:39:24 mircea_popescu: unless you've revolutionized counting, yes.

14:39:57 mircea_popescu: this is fundamental mathematics we're discussing here.

14:40:36 kolinko: you can create the list of 15 all at once. people wouldn't trust the list because they saw it being created. they trust the list, because they can review it one by one, and see that all the individuals are indeed trustworthy

14:40:55 ThickAsThieves: :/

14:41:06 kolinko: in other words - you don't trust the list of 15 people because the list of 14 people said that you should trust it. you trust the list because you can see who's on it, and they look trustworthy.

14:41:19 ThickAsThieves: why are we making lists and giving things to 15 people? i guess i better read the logs, is this OT or something?

14:41:24 mircea_popescu: "all at once" ? what is this.

14:41:35 mircea_popescu: simultaneity in reality ? through what magic ?

14:41:45 mircea_popescu: and anyway, if "you" create it then you're just counting from 1 to 15.

14:42:27 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah, he's just trying to solve a fundamental problem through implementation and got blindsided by a theoretical exposition of it.

14:42:30 kolinko: you're nitpicking. what I meant is that it doesn't matter who created the list and how. what matters is whether the list really contains gpg keys of the people, and whether the people on the list want to participate

14:42:37 ThickAsThieves: decentralization as an ideal doesnt really exist, it's just a degree of centralization

14:42:45 mircea_popescu: but this also happens to be the definition of a sybil vulnerability.

14:43:05 ThickAsThieves: which in turn is just order against chaos

14:43:32 kolinko: well, every system is breakable. it's just a question of probability

14:43:44 mircea_popescu: hence my comment about them being arsed to put up with the cost of the defense.

14:44:10 mircea_popescu: and for that matter : the spf system is not breakable.

14:44:47 mircea_popescu: this is the main advantage of an overlord that the decentralize fanboys tend to ignore. if you have a good overlord, the system is unbreakable period.

14:44:54 mircea_popescu: not a question of any probabilities.

14:45:09 ThickAsThieves: til a nuke lands on your head at least

14:45:10 kolinko: the problem is that the overlord can disappear at any time

14:45:24 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but see, if you delete the program, you can't say you've broken the code.

14:45:33 ThickAsThieves: fair enough

14:45:37 mircea_popescu: a system that either works as intended or not at all is the holy grail of unbreakability.

14:45:41 mircea_popescu: kolinko yes.

14:45:46 ThickAsThieves: but arent we discussing sustainability of a system?

14:45:59 mircea_popescu: well it's reasonably unclear what we're actually discussing.

14:46:03 ThickAsThieves: hehe

14:46:07 kolinko: as for people being bothered into doing this - it's a valid question, but one that can only be answered by trying it in practice

14:46:48 ThickAsThieves: for me, arguing against centralization as a broad value is silly

14:46:53 mircea_popescu: nah, it can actually be answered in theory too. just, it gets esoteric quickly.

14:47:01 ThickAsThieves: these are just system design factors

14:47:04 kolinko: :)

14:47:05 ThickAsThieves: not ideals or such

14:47:26 kolinko: what I'm really trying to figure out is whether people would be willing to try such a system

14:47:41 ThickAsThieves: people will try anything if youre wearing the right clothes

14:47:42 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't.

14:47:48 mircea_popescu: but some people might, sure.

14:48:44 mircea_popescu: imo the avenue to this standardisation is, once moloko delivers the registrar of deeds, and if indeed we want to do a lot of option trade,

14:48:53 mircea_popescu: it'll just work from there relying on the wot and that.

14:49:22 penguirker: New blog post: http://fraudsters.com/2014/tango-on-avenida-corrientes-buenos-aires/

14:49:27 mircea_popescu: but really, there doesn't seem to be that much demand for options once the darkpool and bitbet respectively take the slack.

14:50:41 ThickAsThieves: so at first i was frustrated at this 1bTCXE trading challenge because basically what it is is they gave everyone a fake account with half BTC / half USD credits and people are set wild to trade the assets. However, there is no tie to the real market so it's mostly a psychological/economical experiment. In this case, is there theory on how such a market would play out?

14:51:15 mircea_popescu: read up on schelling ?

14:51:36 ThickAsThieves: only light exposure

14:51:57 ThickAsThieves: i know the concept, but how do i see the point?

14:51:58 The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: re : keynesians - they still seem to be popular in the US. Alot worship at the temple

14:52:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: tango piece: did you take the creature home as a pet ?

14:52:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did not. too old.

14:52:41 asciilifeform: aha.

14:52:45 kolinko: let's say that I wanted to build a business that relies on options... a web wallet that maintains the users' bitcoin balance stable in relation to usd (e.g. I put $100 worth of btc into the wallet, and after a year I'm almost guaranteed to be able to withdraw $100, regardless of bitcoin price)

14:52:56 mircea_popescu: experience shows girl under 30 or so has a lot of trouble reeducating.

14:53:00 mircea_popescu: over*

14:53:12 kolinko: such a business would require option trading on the backend. but how could it trade options securely, as of today?

14:53:22 mircea_popescu: kolinko either on otc or maybe make bitbet bets.

14:53:22 The20YearIRCloud: kol - it wouldn't be hard as long as you had a option to withdraw the USD

14:53:35 The20YearIRCloud: We've kind of looked at something like that, but offering USD denominated bonds sold via bitcoin

14:53:53 mircea_popescu: or i guess by trading the x.eur delivered future, if you can actually take delivery.

14:53:57 kolinko: bitbet is centralised, and the business would have to rely on bitbet not failing, right?

14:54:10 los_pantalones: the price of the vol on the puts is too high

14:54:13 mircea_popescu: all trade relies on your conterparty not running off. but yes.

14:54:14 los_pantalones: doesn't matter where you source it

14:54:14 kolinko: otc is hard to do automatically/hard to scale, or am I wrong?

14:54:21 los_pantalones: i'll sell to you on whatever platform you want

14:54:28 los_pantalones: but you'll drown in vol premium

14:54:32 mircea_popescu: los_pantalones bitbet is seriously not that expensive. 1% + time value.

14:54:51 los_pantalones: that's a good point, bitbet is your cheapest option

14:54:55 mircea_popescu: it is, yes.

14:54:58 los_pantalones: standard vanilla options much more expensive

14:55:24 kolinko: some good ideas here, thanks :)

14:55:35 jurov: kolinko we did not solve the exercise price yet (which was mpoe's undoing)

14:55:40 mircea_popescu: los_pantalones the eur future is actually even cheaper, arguably.

14:55:50 RagnarDanneskjol: if you must oracle, aristocracy is your best bet kolinko: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitcoin-assets-m/#footnote_2_53902

14:55:51 assbot: #bitcoin-assets +m pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

14:55:51 mircea_popescu: course doing a synth option on a future is fucking tricky.

14:56:04 jurov: how are these 15 people work on untrustworthy data from exchanges?

14:56:26 mircea_popescu: jurov honestly, if you actually had 15 people that were there assembled for merit, not just random derpage

14:56:26 jurov: regardless of you using bitbet or otc

14:56:32 mircea_popescu: i'd rather trust their fixing than exchanges.

14:56:39 mircea_popescu: you know how fixing works right ?

14:57:00 kolinko: well, the most expensive variant would be to rely on humans

14:57:11 mircea_popescu: yes, like with sex and food.

14:57:21 mircea_popescu: the most expensive variant is to get actual sex and actual food.

14:57:45 kolinko: i.e. each of the 15 operators provides the btc price, and the average is chosen after throwing away the extremes

14:57:54 jurov: yes, if these people can back the fixed price then it would go well

14:57:58 mircea_popescu: kolinko read up on fixing. srsly.

14:58:30 jurov: but then that's different thing than some deciding oracle

14:58:42 mircea_popescu: the thing that annoys me most about contemporaneity is that somehow it got convinced nothing pre ww2 ever happened. nfi why. so many excellent implementations of good solutions seem to just vanish in the general knowledge.

14:58:49 mircea_popescu: jurov quite different yes.

14:59:06 kolinko: it's still more secure than trusting a single party to provide the price, isn't it?

14:59:15 mircea_popescu: only if you have a good selection of 15.

14:59:19 jurov: !up mats_cd03

14:59:25 mircea_popescu: like you knolw, two girls are a better fuck than just one. provided they're not insane.

14:59:47 mats_cd03: kolinko: funny enough, thats how LIBOR was pegged. didya catch how LIBOR ended up rigged?

15:00:05 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 i maintain it's free money that did it.

15:00:10 kolinko: :) well, to really break the system you'd need 8 of 15 conspire without the other 7 discovering that

15:00:30 mircea_popescu: kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy.

15:00:31 mats_cd03: what is with you and this magic 15 number. i don't get it

15:00:40 kolinko: mats_cd03 didn't know about that. any link to the story? (or I can google)

15:00:45 mircea_popescu: three times the five talmudic pillars ?

15:01:02 mircea_popescu: one for each form of the trinity ?

15:01:41 kolinko: if you have 100 nobody will be bother to independently verify the list. 5 is too few. also, 15 is a technical limit - the max number of sigs for bitcoin multisig wallet is 15

15:01:52 mircea_popescu: ahahahaaha WHAT

15:01:57 mircea_popescu: holy shit what is wrong with these derps.

15:02:13 mats_cd03: why not 11. come on, it works for the judicial system in the US!

15:02:22 mircea_popescu: "o i know, instead of specifying this "hairball" we keep blaming on satoshi... how about we add... MORE MAGIC NUMBERS!!11"

15:02:25 mircea_popescu: fucktards.

15:02:27 jurov: kolinko again..these 15 say "the price at time T is P becuase.. some bullshit"

15:02:43 jurov: 1000s worth of option exercise based on that

15:02:49 mats_cd03: oops... not 11... anyway.

15:02:52 mircea_popescu: srsly, the "multisig" thing has an arbitrary 15 limit ?

15:02:54 jurov: now you think the price was not fair

15:02:59 jurov: what now?

15:03:17 kolinko: mircea: 15 or 16. would have to check it again. but yeah, seriously

15:03:21 *: mats_cd03 has forgotten all his American Constitutional Law, even basics

15:03:34 mircea_popescu: kolinko shame on you for seriously thinking of pushing this crap downstream, seriously now.

15:03:49 mircea_popescu: "the limit some idiots put in is 15 so now i'm going to make it part of my brain" ? what is wrong with you!

15:04:19 kolinko: I'm not saying this is the best possible solution, only that it might be the most practical one

15:04:44 mircea_popescu: code in such a way you won't be ashamed to show what you've written to your kids or the woman that may potentially carry them.

15:04:50 mats_cd03: tell me why i would trust even 8 of 15 folks in this system

15:05:08 mats_cd03: and don't fucking say its because there are 15 of them.

15:05:28 kolinko: mats: you'd check the list one by one, and you'd determine that each one of them seems reasonable

15:05:41 RagnarDanneskjol: seems legit

15:05:42 kolinko: and that all of them are quite unlikely to collude

15:05:59 punkman: if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around

15:06:30 mircea_popescu: punkman you're starting to sound like the girls :D

15:06:37 mats_cd03: unless i have a handler that knows where they live, who their friends are, where their assets are kept, trusting that many individuals seems a tricky proposition. trusting just one is hard enough

15:06:42 kolinko: no trust in the central authority / list creator. you'd see some folks with a high WoT rating, some bitcointalk hero members, some known businesspeople, and of course 8 of them would be us senators.

15:06:55 mircea_popescu: holy shit

15:07:00 mats_cd03: heh hero members

15:07:12 kolinko: :) oh come on, you know what I mean

15:07:19 punkman: 8 US senators?

15:07:19 mircea_popescu: well i guess mpoe-pr was a hero... member.

15:07:37 punkman: stepping up the troll game?

15:08:10 mircea_popescu: punkman barney frank, of "i fuck little boys" fame, comes to mind

15:08:27 mircea_popescu: after all, he recently wrote a mega-piece of us trollery didn't he.

15:08:30 mircea_popescu: well, co-author.

15:08:33 mats_cd03: i can't tell if you're trolling anymore

15:08:33 mats_cd03: 10/10 masterful execution m8

15:08:35 thestringpuller: i need about tree fiddy

15:08:40 kolinko: you wouldn't really need to trust them to handle funds, just for them to be unable to conspire with eachother

15:09:08 RagnarDanneskjol: better to go with british monarchy - at least you can find their parents if all goes to hell

15:09:20 asciilifeform: for them to be unable to conspire with eachother << what'll you do? search their rectums for radios, then build each into own oubliette ?

15:09:25 mircea_popescu: yeah, a system with charles and barney frank.

15:09:35 mircea_popescu: no this is starting to sound better and better. i hope they make a mars lander.

15:09:59 mircea_popescu: could that nut with virgin be part of it too ? he is a businessman, after a fashion.

15:10:16 mircea_popescu: he knows how to make a small fortune out of things, provided he has a large one to start with.

15:10:34 kolinko: it's not about creating a system that's impossible to cheat, it's about creating a system that's too hard to cheat

15:10:34 jurov: i'd vouch for assbot to be included

15:10:54 jurov: the most trusted bot in the WoT

15:11:10 kolinko: :)

15:11:24 mircea_popescu: kolinko you're so far making a system that's too hard not to laugh at.

15:11:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.24218749 = 1.9375 BTC [+] {2}

15:11:45 mats_cd03: https://www.iacr.org/archive/crypto2001/21390001.pdf an oldie but still good. 'on the impossibility of obfuscating programs.'

15:12:13 mircea_popescu: los_pantalones let me guess, the situation is that calls you don't really know how to price and so don't really want to sell and puts you can price perfectly well and nobody can afford ?

15:12:30 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 nu-uh, there's ioncube!

15:13:05 kolinko: did you read a piece by Gavin on bit-thereum? http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/06/bit-thereum.html - he's arguing for a similar thing

15:13:06 assbot: GavinTech: Bit-thereum

15:13:15 kolinko: (a proof by authority: yay! )

15:13:30 mircea_popescu: well gavin doesn't enjoy much of a reputation for a thinker around here, but let's see.

15:14:01 mats_cd03: b-b-but, my brain work g-g-good...

15:14:35 mod6: t-t-t-today Junior!

15:15:16 mircea_popescu: meh. guy's just jotting down random thoughts. they are pretty broken, but can't judge one on that. anyway.

15:15:36 jurov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73UdOn2VunQ

15:15:36 assbot: SNAP! - World in my Hands - YouTube

15:16:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book.

15:16:16 mircea_popescu: doubt you read it, prolly exactly what you're looking for re the btcxe thing

15:16:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00076808 = 5.5302 BTC [+]

15:17:50 mats_cd03: not to be a douchebag, or anything, kolinko, but i am reminded of this American serial Boardwalk Empire

15:18:10 RagnarDanneskjol: great book - here's pdf: http://nazbol.net/library/authors/Thomas%20Schelling/The%20Strategy%20of%20Conflict.pdf

15:18:14 mats_cd03: main character, an old fuck named Nucky, says to a useless subordinate

15:18:26 mats_cd03: 'Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element.'

15:18:52 kolinko: I totally am, that's why I came to you guys to talk and learn

15:19:26 kolinko: "Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sorta good at something" -- Jake The Dog

15:19:53 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol o hey nice, i had no idea it's floating around

15:20:13 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Drunk rating, he tripped the paranoia alarms

15:20:17 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 he has a point, look at all the great discussion he caused.

15:20:26 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well don't drunk rate eh.

15:20:40 mats_cd03: oh wait... i think i'm referencing the wrong thing actually. seppeku.

15:20:51 mircea_popescu: thing is when you rate, you force everyone to evaluate things. some people precache, and do it on the spot, some others will do it over time.

15:20:58 mircea_popescu: consider the discussion with rithm re guruvan earlier.

15:21:08 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 sepukku.

15:21:12 mircea_popescu: can't even speal.

15:21:34 mats_cd03: doh

15:22:27 mod6: discussion is good, reading ~900 days of logs is probably a pre-requisite

15:22:54 mircea_popescu: i wonder how long that takes lol.

15:23:09 mod6: lol. can't finish until you start :)

15:23:38 mircea_popescu: actually it's not even 900, only about 500 or so. logs start last year in spring.

15:23:50 mod6: ah, ok.

15:24:09 mircea_popescu: the chan is old enough to have had nefario derping et all, but im not sure that's avail on website

15:24:41 thestringpuller: nefario: "I have this great idea guys. It's called GLBSE"

15:24:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27894 @ 0.00076811 = 21.4257 BTC [+] {2}

15:24:57 thestringpuller: "If you have any assets you want to list email me!"

15:25:11 mircea_popescu: ;;seen nefario

15:25:11 gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 50 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 25 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore

15:25:19 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3EJ7Z8Y.txt )

15:25:19 mircea_popescu: !b 5

15:25:40 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller brilliantly played, sir.

15:25:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.24645726 = 2.711 BTC [+] {3}

15:26:26 mats_cd03: !s muppetlabs

15:26:26 assbot: 0 results for 'muppetlabs' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=muppetlabs

15:26:57 mats_cd03: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html and http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/rsa.html worth a read

15:26:59 assbot: A Whirlwind Tutorial on Creating Really Teensy ELF Executables for Linux

15:27:00 assbot: Prime Number Hide-and-Seek: How the RSA Cipher Works

15:27:28 mircea_popescu: not bad,

15:28:22 mircea_popescu: dude i had forgotten what a nice ass penny ford has

15:28:24 mircea_popescu: well... had.

15:30:04 BingoBoingo: k

15:30:28 RagnarDanneskjol: !up mats_cd03

15:30:49 kolinko: (what's the etiquette if I'm going afk? !down to assbot ? )

15:30:56 mircea_popescu: nah

15:31:07 mircea_popescu: there's no etuiqueety, we're assholes.

15:31:11 mats_cd03: penny ford, the negress?

15:31:20 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 snap girl, jurov linked it earlier

15:32:38 mats_cd03: good timing, now i feel like an asshole.

15:33:46 mats_cd03: for anyone interested in .mil films or trashcanistan, restrepo + korengal are excellent and worth watching

15:34:01 xmj: moin

15:34:12 xmj: fluffypony: progress is going well, i suppose?

15:35:47 mircea_popescu: !up dooglus

15:35:50 mircea_popescu: o look who's there.

15:35:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25282 @ 0.00076769 = 19.4087 BTC [-] {2}

15:36:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 976 @ 0.00076719 = 0.7488 BTC [-] {2}

15:40:29 fluffypony: xmj: had to pause it to do other stuff, will pick it up again tomorrow

15:40:35 fluffypony: but at least it compiles and runs from github

15:40:43 xmj: that's good news!

15:40:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00076812 = 21.2769 BTC [+]

15:47:56 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy. /// glad to see you say so, it's a point often missed in many circumstances. for example, some want to paint USG as a hyper conspiracy and assume all its evil/scammy actions are fully intentional. More likely, it just evolved to be a broken shit in all corners of its

15:47:57 ThickAsThieves: house, nurturing powers like overgrown weeds that now appear to make up the whole lawn.

15:48:33 mircea_popescu: i thought that was my stated perspective all through.

15:49:05 ThickAsThieves: <+punkman> if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around /// oh lord!

15:49:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves imagine if they also had tits.

15:49:58 BingoBoingo: http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/09/11/0041227/x-class-solar-flare-coming-friday << Time to practice your Em shielding

15:49:59 assbot: X-Class Solar Flare Coming Friday - Slashdot

15:50:40 *: jurov puts on his tinfoil hat

15:50:41 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book. /// will check it out

15:50:45 mircea_popescu: fun fact : living in argentina confers a lot of immunity to flares :D

15:53:41 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

15:53:44 gribble: Current Blocks: 320167 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 376 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29233824168.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.58142

15:54:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.232 = 2.32 BTC [-] {2}

15:56:46 ThickAsThieves: does AM even pay divs anymore?

15:56:59 asciilifeform: obligatory:

15:57:00 asciilifeform: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/0000/bastard06.php

15:57:01 assbot: Bastard Operator From Hell Official Archive

15:57:14 asciilifeform: 'I turn the page on the excuse sheet. "SOLAR FLARES" stares out at me. I'd better read up on that.'

15:57:18 ThickAsThieves: last div was in March, heh

15:57:42 xmj: asciilifeform: BOFH excuse calendar fortune on terminal opening.

15:57:44 xmj: great fun.

15:57:48 asciilifeform: '"MAGNETS! Wrap your disks up in a pillow case with lots of magnets - Solar Flares hate that." "Wow! Thanks."'

15:58:04 xmj: asciilifeform: fortune /usr/local/share/games/fortune/bofh

15:58:07 xmj: I dare you.

16:00:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.40997627 BTC to 15`381 shares, 9167 satoshi per share

16:01:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 7.33692344 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 638 satoshi per share

16:04:02 mircea_popescu: http://38.media.tumblr.com/b3a3dd1cbcd669da88f90b82eb61f19f/tumblr_n115a1cQcW1t9sgudo1_500.jpg grain!

16:04:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sovpr0n ?

16:05:06 asciilifeform: (not the 'genuine article,' clearly, but in the spirit of 'ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz' for germans)

16:08:18 ThickAsThieves: http://brianmatthews60.blogspot.com/2014/03/ilsa-she-wolf-of-ss.html

16:08:19 assbot: Movie Ramble: Ilsa She Wolf of the SS.

16:08:34 ThickAsThieves: looks like some gnarly stuff

16:09:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 52 @ 0.25111536 = 13.058 BTC [+] {5}

16:12:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.269 = 0.538 BTC [+]

16:15:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol i guess.

16:16:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves buncha sexploitations of the 70s, they're all pretty much the same thing.

16:16:36 mircea_popescu: ;;google Blutjunge Verfuhrerinnen fraudsters

16:16:37 gribble: Februarie 2012 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2012/02; fraudsterstograf pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/category/fraudsterstograf/; Martie 2012 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2012/03

16:24:41 mircea_popescu: http://31.media.tumblr.com/d7b1e31efb1da4ad0a1d9d0e1d467c1d/tumblr_n0dessqa1c1rs2onlo1_1280.jpg new chlamydia cure.

16:24:55 ThickAsThieves: get this: "CM was described as a "virtual company” by LTC-Global (and accordingly referred to as such in the CM Business Plan). However, as a matter of English law, CM may be considered a general partnership. If that is the case, then the 'shareholders' of CM - which includes yourself - would all be considered partners. As partners, they would all be jointly and severally liable for

16:24:55 ThickAsThieves: CM's debts, including the 'Bond'. It is therefore possible that 'bondholders' may seek to take legal action against CM's 'shareholders', including yourself, to seek to recover that debt. However, if 'bondholders' accept the restructure plan proposed below, that risk might be mitigated."

16:25:32 ThickAsThieves: it continues to say shareholders get to vote on this move, (not bondholders)

16:25:40 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286634.msg8732682#msg8732682

16:25:40 assbot: [BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE.B1 - a virtual corporate bond with a 22% fixed-fiat APR

16:25:44 mircea_popescu: lmao

16:25:58 mircea_popescu: that torturous pseudolegal interpretation has exactly no grounds to stand on.

16:26:48 mircea_popescu: isn't this the "uk busineswoman" of great repute that i "viciously attacked" for "no good reason" last year ?

16:27:10 mircea_popescu: kate/craig wood ?

16:27:43 ThickAsThieves: yes

16:27:59 ThickAsThieves: owes me 150btc

16:28:19 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:28:22 ThickAsThieves: not that i expect to see it

16:28:31 mircea_popescu: http://38.media.tumblr.com/f9532aaee443a7620f0f02ebc6a82753/tumblr_myxfk7hFOJ1t47ykxo1_250.gif

16:28:35 nubbins`: lel

16:28:38 ThickAsThieves: unsure whether legal pursuit would be worth it

16:29:01 mircea_popescu: maybe you could get his "woman of the year in buziness" trophy ?

16:29:04 fluffypony: probably more trouble than its worth

16:29:12 ThickAsThieves: she does seem to have assets

16:29:19 RagnarDanneskjol: oh yea

16:29:21 mircea_popescu: or maybe the uk could be forced to pay for having swindled the general public with pointless "women too" bullshit ?

16:30:11 ThickAsThieves: i never intended to hold the bonds long term, it was just a risky trade. btct closed while in the process of selling em off...

16:30:20 ThickAsThieves: lessons

16:30:50 mircea_popescu: that's the way these "profits" go.

16:30:59 mircea_popescu: herpy derp, make 1% ten times then lose it all on the 11th pass.

16:31:11 ThickAsThieves: something like that

16:31:35 mircea_popescu: but people generally don't want to believe asshole "single points of failure", because decentralized wisdom tells them "it works just fine"

16:31:50 mircea_popescu: lyf.

16:35:56 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if more loss was caused by gov influence to shut down btc exchsnges, than if they remainded open

16:36:11 mircea_popescu: define loss.

16:36:36 ThickAsThieves: customers getting more bitcoins out

16:37:13 ThickAsThieves: as in if bf and btct werent shut down by USG, the lie may have played out to less loss

16:38:06 ThickAsThieves: i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems

16:38:12 ThickAsThieves: with no real gain

16:38:58 ThickAsThieves: all i'm saying is if BTCT didnt close i woulda sold them shits!

16:40:04 ThickAsThieves: and then the Bitfunder thing is still a total mystery

16:40:06 punkman: passing the bad doesn't make it disappear

16:40:08 punkman: *bag

16:40:28 ThickAsThieves: indeed

16:40:36 kolinko: quick question re: trusted data feeds. is the problem generally in the api/site potentially getting hacked, or the algorithm for a computation of one being suspectible to manipulation? what's the problem with deciding that the btc/usd price is an average of btc-e, bitstamp & kraken, each adjusted for volume?

16:41:28 punkman: kolinko: the problem is all three might misplace their decimal points

16:41:42 ThickAsThieves: it happens

16:41:57 punkman: btw

16:41:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2301 = 0.6903 BTC [-] {2}

16:42:00 ThickAsThieves: you see glitched trade feeds in an exchange every few mos

16:42:00 punkman: !search orisi

16:42:00 assbot: 3 results for 'orisi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=orisi

16:42:01 asciilifeform: your isp also may succumb to temptation to nudge a decimal.

16:42:21 punkman: !search oracle

16:42:22 assbot: 86 results for 'oracle' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=oracle

16:42:31 kolinko: punkman:wow, cool, thx

16:44:31 kolinko: thick: but isn't that a matter of a better averaging algorithm construction? e.g. if one of the exchanges is far away, we're suspending the feed until situation resolves (would obviously need to be more elaborate)

16:45:38 mike_c: and what do you do when the biggest exchange goes apeshit and has a price that is 50% different than the others for weeks?

16:45:52 mike_c: oh, wait, this is what happenned

16:46:12 punkman: and the bot is still suspended

16:46:15 ThickAsThieves: it's worse now actually,

16:46:41 ThickAsThieves: any notable movement on any of the 4 or so top exchanges will cause movement on the rest

16:46:56 ThickAsThieves: so one glitch would indeed have implications

16:47:15 kolinko: a failsafe rule for removal that one exchange from the computation?

16:47:25 ThickAsThieves: what if its real?

16:47:30 ThickAsThieves: you gonna dictate the mkt now?

16:48:37 kolinko: or letting trusted humans solve the issue? or a requierement for both parties to figure out the agreement?

16:48:49 ThickAsThieves: people wanna do things like circuit-breakers, and curating the data somehow, it's all shit imo

16:49:08 punkman: kolinko, full circle back to OTC GPG contracts?

16:49:12 kolinko: arbitrage/human interventions work in the real world

16:49:25 mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems << bingo.

16:49:35 mircea_popescu: idiots losing their btc ohldings is a net plus for society.

16:50:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00076768 = 21.3415 BTC [-] {2}

16:50:11 nubbins`: depends who they lose em to

16:50:18 ThickAsThieves: well, youre welcome society, for my earlier transgressions!

16:50:24 mircea_popescu: kolinko> quick question re: trusted data feeds what's the problem with deciding that << you know what wash trading is ?

16:50:50 xmj: KODE_YETI: you around yet?

16:51:04 kolinko: mircea_popescu: will go and read about it

16:51:30 thestringpuller: mod6: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/showbiz/rapper-arrested/

16:51:36 mircea_popescu: the problem of trust is a very long and sensitive chain. creating a 99% functional chain still doesn't create a functional chain.

16:51:59 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> you know what wash trading is ? /// still happens quite obviously in btc exchanges

16:52:07 mircea_popescu: as to trusted humans, read up on fixing, as a pricing procedure. it's been explained in the logs a year ago, too

16:52:27 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves and even without the major incentive of gaming a large options operation

16:52:55 ThickAsThieves: the margin and futures scene is heating up tho

16:53:15 mircea_popescu: in all the bad ways.

16:53:19 ThickAsThieves: yep

16:53:59 ThickAsThieves: i watched these new chinese futures a lil and its basically being traded like btc, no real future sentiment at all

16:54:07 kolinko: ThickAsThieves: how is it heating up? where can I track news? (thx for answering all the basic questions)

16:54:16 ThickAsThieves: all the chinese exchanges are no-fee

16:54:22 ThickAsThieves: and now offering bonds

16:54:23 ThickAsThieves: cmon now

16:54:38 mircea_popescu: myup.

16:54:47 mircea_popescu: but hey, why should i worry about that :D

16:54:56 mircea_popescu: we have hard currency, let them fail, what's the problem.

16:55:00 nubbins`: BUT IF THEY'RE NO-FEE....

16:55:14 ThickAsThieves: i wish you offered BTCUSD trading in some capacity

16:55:25 kolinko: arent those exchanges for kids with pocket change and fools?

16:55:37 nubbins`: kolinko remove the word "those"

16:55:44 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i won't without a submissive government, and then it'd be btc/that fiat.

16:55:47 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: usd is a 'tar baby'

16:56:02 ThickAsThieves: kolinko its hard to tell real exchange volume

16:56:08 ThickAsThieves: china def fakes/washes

16:56:54 kolinko: makes sense

16:56:58 ThickAsThieves: bfx has some kinda sneaky something going on

16:57:06 ThickAsThieves: often limit orders not filling

16:57:24 mircea_popescu: they imported the icbit software lol

16:57:36 ThickAsThieves: i do like bfx otherwise tho

16:57:45 mircea_popescu: well otherwise what's not to like.

16:57:49 ThickAsThieves: miles better than any other exchange

16:57:56 mircea_popescu: i like mcdonalds otherwise too :D

16:57:59 ThickAsThieves: hehe

17:00:01 ThickAsThieves: i think part of the bfx shenanigans lie in how they display one decimal place for USD in orderbook, but allow orders to specify 2 places

17:00:03 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, if you manage to get through the hoops on davout's exchange you can practically trade the eur

17:00:59 ThickAsThieves: does it haz leverage?

17:01:33 ThickAsThieves: and liquidity

17:01:41 nubbins`: probably the wrong crowd around for this, but any interest in a 2012-funded 25btc casascius coin w/ pgp docs?

17:02:20 ThickAsThieves: interested, sure, just not interested in insane premiums it probably comes with

17:02:49 ThickAsThieves: whats that go for these days?

17:03:03 ThickAsThieves: +$5k?

17:03:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves afaik there's a liquidity bot, and im sure you can get better leverage elsewhere.

17:03:54 mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's not really over 100 btc is it ?!

17:08:18 nubbins`: ? nooo

17:08:50 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: a 25btc coin selling for 10btc? :0

17:09:16 punkman: 10btc premium

17:09:21 nubbins`: oh, heh.

17:09:48 nubbins`: nah, around 28-30 would be more realistic

17:10:35 mircea_popescu: the 14k coin ?

17:10:39 mircea_popescu: not bad.

17:11:10 nubbins`: i think it's just plated

17:12:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2014#560583

17:12:24 assbot: Logged on 14-03-2014 20:49:27; asciilifeform: turns out that the instrument i proposed for raping casascius coins is available commercially:

17:12:25 ThickAsThieves: those bars and coins are like the best btc investment ever

17:12:38 mircea_popescu: notrly, but anyway

17:12:58 ThickAsThieves: well, i think of the added force the impose to not sell your coins

17:13:15 ThickAsThieves: 100btc gold bars cost what originally?

17:13:44 mircea_popescu: s.mpoe was 2k satoshi originally.,

17:14:19 ThickAsThieves: i guess AM maybe was best rise

17:14:27 ThickAsThieves: .1 to 5.6

17:14:36 mircea_popescu: ;;google fraudsters history best investments btc

17:14:37 gribble: The best investments in the history of Bitcoin pe fraudsters - Un blog de ...: http://fraudsters.com/the-best-investments-in-the-history-of-bitcoin; MPEx : one year of dividends pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/mpex-one-year-of-dividends; Why you can't invest with Cryptostocks pe fraudsters - Un blog de ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/why-you-cant-invest- (1 more message)

17:14:51 ThickAsThieves: mah cookie is borked again

17:15:09 nubbins`: AM and casascius coins were both pretty yeasty investments

17:15:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23013333 = 0.6904 BTC [+] {3}

17:15:35 nubbins`: cas coins, still going up

17:16:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.20150114 = 7.0525 BTC [-] {4}

17:16:53 mircea_popescu: i suppose in the end one can count the poroductive btc investments on a hand

17:17:02 mircea_popescu: jd is in there too

17:17:26 mircea_popescu: i suppose satoshi dice too, in a marginal sorta sense "either you sold at a profit or held for no loss" sorta thing

17:17:39 asciilifeform: how are sd and jd more than simple chumpatronic pumps ?

17:17:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the investment side.

17:17:54 asciilifeform: aha

17:17:56 mircea_popescu: ie, you could bankroll them

17:18:24 *: asciilifeform never understood why these needed investment

17:18:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26578 @ 0.0007671 = 20.388 BTC [-] {2}

17:18:34 asciilifeform: same as the ancient question 'why does god need a starship'

17:18:34 mircea_popescu: to cover for the risk of ruin.

17:18:48 ThickAsThieves: xbond and nam's bond did ok in the end

17:18:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose you run a casino, and i come and play with a dollar.

17:19:04 mircea_popescu: i keep betting all on black and winning

17:19:10 asciilifeform: chance of this, vs. asteroid ?

17:19:15 mircea_popescu: fifty two wins into my streak... what do you do ?

17:19:34 mircea_popescu: matters not. still gotta cover for the bets you make

17:19:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4272 @ 0.00076639 = 3.274 BTC [-] {2}

17:19:52 nubbins`: ^

17:20:11 ThickAsThieves: mp is saying sell dat mpoe!

17:20:11 asciilifeform: what you do << 'what do you do when a shell lands in your trench? jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around.'

17:21:28 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/11/us-britain-boe-bitcoin-idUSKBN0H61ID20140911 funny i read the BoE thing and got a positive impression

17:21:29 assbot: Bank of England sees Bitcoin fraud risk, deflation danger| Reuters

17:21:49 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: the edge you have to walk with casascius coins is btc value vs fiat value

17:22:14 ThickAsThieves: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does

17:22:30 nubbins`: so far the market has been completely ignoring fluctuations in exchange rates

17:22:32 ThickAsThieves: says reuters

17:23:29 ThickAsThieves: "A significant risk to digital currencies' sustained use (is) that they will not be able to compete on cost without degenerating ... to a monopoly miner, thereby ... exposing them to risk of system-wide fraud," the BoE said.

17:24:26 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if they considered mapping thay logic to themselves

17:24:31 ThickAsThieves: that*

17:26:37 nubbins`: actually, i can't think of any other examples where the value of something in btc steadily increases over time

17:26:41 nubbins`: admittedly, no coffee yet

17:28:41 TomServo: I've wondered about this too - what are the arguments against guns, jewelry, land?

17:29:16 TomServo: art ;)

17:29:19 BingoBoingo: !t m s.wol

17:29:19 assbot: Some are born to endless night.

17:30:49 TomServo: Doh, I missed the 'in btc' part - for shame.

17:31:47 ThickAsThieves: any collectible is at the mercy of its popularity

17:32:02 ThickAsThieves: and scarcity

17:32:25 ThickAsThieves: when i was a kid, the elder generation thought baseball cards were good investments

17:32:29 ThickAsThieves: look at them now

17:33:09 nubbins`: beanie babies

17:33:21 nubbins`: magic cards

17:33:41 ThickAsThieves: they probly dont even keep up with inflation

17:34:05 nubbins`: lots of old coinage, too

17:34:07 ThickAsThieves: after a while, no one gives a shit about Bo jackson

17:34:13 nubbins`: bo knows!

17:34:37 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Fuck you, Bo Jackson is an exemplar.

17:35:14 ThickAsThieves: hey i was a big fan

17:35:19 ThickAsThieves: but yknow

17:35:54 ThickAsThieves: i still have all his cards somewhere i think

17:35:59 ThickAsThieves: one day!

17:36:12 nubbins`: found a box of old hockey cards a couple weeks ago

17:36:30 ThickAsThieves: i think i have a brett hull rookie

17:36:49 nubbins`: i've got bobby hull's autograph on a vuarnet t-shirt!!

17:36:53 nubbins`: ahaha, the 90s

17:37:08 ThickAsThieves: lol $9 card

17:37:19 ThickAsThieves: seems overpriced

17:37:37 TomServo: brett hull rookie is $9?!

17:38:04 ThickAsThieves: the one i have at least, i think, i forget all the opeechee topps variant stuff

17:40:23 ThickAsThieves: i just checked my mtgox account balance, 0.12504189! Score!

17:41:12 nubbins`: sweet, let's spend it on pizza!

17:41:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28947 @ 0.0007649 = 22.1416 BTC [-] {2}

17:43:16 BingoBoingo: The problem with Baseball cards was them emulated the utility of stamps too much, but without understanding why stamps got so expensive for the rarities

17:44:40 BingoBoingo: Stamps, mostly being a tool for money transmission

17:45:47 ThickAsThieves: blowstamps!

17:46:09 BingoBoingo: Seriously

17:46:10 ThickAsThieves: i started with stamps actually

17:46:14 ThickAsThieves: was in the stamp club

17:46:20 ThickAsThieves: and chess club

17:46:22 BingoBoingo: Stamps were basically pre-internet Bitcoin

17:46:26 ThickAsThieves: i was a real cool kid obv

17:47:32 ThickAsThieves: all i really remember about the scene was the famous inverted jenny

17:50:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00076401 = 46.9484 BTC [-] {3}

17:50:51 nubbins`: heh, speaking of collectibles

17:51:02 nubbins`: ;;view 21426

17:51:04 gribble: #21426 Thu Sep 11 13:50:24 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 Radiohead autographed band photo @ 0 BTC (Signed by all members. PM offers. Includes original packaging & letter from W.A.S.T.E.)

17:51:07 nubbins`: see if there's any interest

18:05:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00060608 = 0.5455 BTC [-] {11}

18:09:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.19710999 = 1.9711 BTC [-] {6}

18:09:50 punkman: http://www.coindesk.com/spain-cracks-bitcoin-gambling-loopholes/

18:09:50 assbot: Spain Cracks Down on Bitcoin Gambling Loopholes

18:10:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.197 = 1.379 BTC [-] {3}

18:14:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19702 = 0.9851 BTC [-] {2}

18:16:17 punkman: https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinffeine/wiki/Exchange-algorithm#protocol-overview

18:16:18 assbot: Exchange algorithm Coinffeine/coinffeine Wiki GitHub

18:16:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00076836 = 54.3999 BTC [+] {3}

18:17:33 asciilifeform: punkman: cribbed.

18:17:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-06-2014#738154

18:17:35 assbot: Logged on 30-06-2014 05:21:05; asciilifeform: idea was, you send, e.g. some btc to addr A, in n parcels. low bits of the parcels encode, e.g. an ltc address. to which the corresponding amount of ltc is then sent.

18:18:12 punkman: this is for fiat/btc

18:18:35 punkman: I don't see the purpose of their algorithm

18:18:37 asciilifeform: then uninteresting

18:18:50 asciilifeform: where in what blockchain can you stuff fiat.

18:20:39 asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/judge-wont-release-surveillance-video-of-courthouse-cop-killing-defendant

18:20:40 assbot: Judge wont release surveillance video of courthouse cop killing defendant | Ars Technica

18:25:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1500 @ 0.00059611 = 0.8942 BTC [-] {6}

18:28:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.197 = 0.985 BTC [-] {2}

18:29:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.197 = 2.167 BTC [-] {2}

18:34:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 93 @ 0.19413978 = 18.055 BTC [-] {2}

18:41:05 The20YearIRCloud: wonder why that is

18:44:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00058156 = 0.5816 BTC [-] {29}

18:51:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00056001 = 0.56 BTC [-] {3}

19:06:11 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:

19:06:11 mircea_popescu: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does << "we read something on a tripod homepage and now believe this is the world"

19:06:18 mircea_popescu: direct result of "i read it on wikipedia"

19:08:58 mircea_popescu: "Citing security concerns, a Utah federal judge is refusing to release courthouse surveillance footage that captured a US marshal killing a defendant during a gang-related trial.

19:08:58 mircea_popescu: The tape's existence, first reported by The Salt Lake Tribune Wednesday, came to public light five months after federal authorities who watched the tape cleared the marshal of wronging. "

19:09:19 mircea_popescu: lmao security concerns indeed. "if anyone not working for the usg found out what we do in thhis here so called "courthouse" they'd prolly set us all on fire"

19:09:28 mircea_popescu: i suppose serbia should bomb the us now.

19:09:57 asciilifeform: serbia's mouth is a little too full of nato cock

19:10:51 mircea_popescu: what, i thought this is socialism.

19:10:55 mircea_popescu: aren't they all equal over there ?

19:11:00 asciilifeform: lol.

19:11:07 mircea_popescu: have i been lied to omg

19:11:28 asciilifeform: 'some more equal than others' (tm)

19:11:51 mircea_popescu: so serbia more equal than us right ?

19:12:04 asciilifeform: equality coming out of her ears.

19:12:59 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol there's really no need for all these emails.

19:13:07 mircea_popescu: say here if anything, if not not worth saying.

19:13:38 RagnarDanneskjol: sorry - it helps me keep track of things

19:13:52 mircea_popescu: yes, the log does. it helps me too, so.

19:14:05 RagnarDanneskjol: can't attach candidate resumes to logs

19:14:12 RagnarDanneskjol: but ok

19:16:17 mircea_popescu: i do it all the time. "he's x y z looking to k". not really that big a deal.

19:16:31 mircea_popescu: coupla lines should be enough, it's what anyone ever reads anyway.

19:23:50 RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - to be clear, do you want me to dump all that unit testing data to the logs? or just leave it alone and hope it comes out right?

19:24:18 mircea_popescu: if it;s worth discussing it goes here. if it is not, it is not.

19:24:21 mircea_popescu: email is not a dump.

19:24:46 mircea_popescu: and if you use it like a dump in your general course of business, you're prolly fucking yourself over and not even realise it.

19:27:28 RagnarDanneskjol: i only communicate that which is critical as concisely as possible. sorry, dont know any other hiring managers using irc, so

19:27:54 mircea_popescu: revolutionary huh ?

19:27:57 mircea_popescu: anyway.

19:28:00 RagnarDanneskjol: it just seems the unit tests for the bot would be considered flooding the channel

19:28:05 mircea_popescu: it's not nearly as bad as scary it seems.

19:28:25 RagnarDanneskjol: i'm all for it

19:38:43 BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/11/emanuel_cleaver_molotov_cocktail_black_missouri_congressman_s_office_targeted.html

19:38:43 assbot: Emanuel Cleaver Molotov cocktail: Black Missouri congressman's office targeted.

19:39:21 mircea_popescu: !up tryphe_

20:08:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00076697 = 7.8231 BTC [-]

20:11:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4805 @ 0.00076697 = 3.6853 BTC [-]

20:22:50 FabianB: aha, mpex fixed

20:22:59 FabianB: $mpexstatus

20:23:00 empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91

20:23:12 empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (1079 milliseconds), mpex.bz (7600 milliseconds), mpex.co (976 milliseconds), mpex.biz (1001 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (982 milliseconds)

20:23:14 empyex: FabianB: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √

20:32:50 chetty: http://drudgereport.com/ohh.jpg

20:34:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00076452 = 8.295 BTC [-] {2}

20:50:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.17717499 = 0.7087 BTC [-] {3}

20:59:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00076697 = 3.9115 BTC [+]

21:02:56 BingoBoingo: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5686297&cid=47884135 << "Welcome to America, Canada's version of Mexico."

21:02:57 assbot: CBC Warns Canadians of "US Law Enforcement Money Extortion Program" - Slashdot

21:38:57 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-16766 << loltron! flamefest from '09 still going strong. they never, ever get tired.

21:38:59 assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure

21:54:24 mircea_popescu: FabianB nice tickmarks

21:55:30 mircea_popescu: !up chalbersma

21:56:39 asciilifeform: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t-charge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736 << lol

21:56:39 assbot: American shakedown: Police won't charge you, but they'll grab your money - World - CBC News

21:57:28 mircea_popescu: The CBC is warning Canadians about a U.S. program where America law enforcement officers ? from federal agents to state troopers right down to sheriffs in one-street backwaters ? are operating a vast, co-ordinated scheme to grab as much of the public's cash as they can through seizure laws.

21:57:29 mircea_popescu: heh.

21:57:37 mircea_popescu: rogue state is going to rogue state.

21:57:49 asciilifeform: 'It involves a nationwide network of enforcement agencies (except in the few states that have banned it) that operates with the help of a vast private intelligence service called ?Black Asphalt?'

21:58:13 asciilifeform: https://blackasphalt.org << they have a site, yes.

21:58:14 assbot: Black Asphalt - Logan County Sheriff's Department:

21:58:44 chalbersma: I wish that that description was overstating it.

21:59:07 asciilifeform: you can apparently buy... shirts and screw-drivers there.

22:00:07 BingoBoingo: http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/goreSSL

22:00:08 assbot: goreSSL

22:00:13 mircea_popescu: "When I go on a road trip I always carry enough cash to buy gas to get to my destination should my credit card stop working.

22:00:13 mircea_popescu: I got pulled over in Nebraska and when I was getting my license out of my wallet the officer saw a $100 bill in there and ended up confiscating the $400 I had on me as suspected drug money without ever arresting me or even charging me with a crime.

22:00:13 mircea_popescu: I got a receipt and an affidavit indicating the amount seized and why. I petitioned the court for the return of my money and the court denied me saying that possession of that much cash constituted probable cause of drug activity and that I should be happy not to be in jail for drugs."

22:00:32 mircea_popescu: 400 dollars. herp.

22:00:38 mircea_popescu: are us folk really that poor ?

22:01:03 asciilifeform: http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/09/police-seizure-black-asphalt-network << apparently, 'asphalt' sells subscription to a db of who is best to plunder and where to find them.

22:01:03 assbot: Cops using controversial database to identify search and seizure targets

22:01:51 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> are us folk really that poor ? << Cash averse. Love their plastic

22:02:04 mircea_popescu: so they're really that poor.

22:02:46 BingoBoingo: Yeah

22:03:22 asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash << original article apparently

22:03:22 assbot: Police training firms teaching helps fuel rise in cash seizures on U.S. highways | The Washington Post

22:03:33 mircea_popescu: well, being a 3rd world shithole is pretty bad, but not knowing it is arguably worse.

22:05:56 mircea_popescu: %p

22:05:59 atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net

22:05:59 atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.09 TH/s

22:06:06 mircea_popescu: %d

22:06:07 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 285796.47 in 1239 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -84.78

22:32:19 BingoBoingo: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1250751

22:32:21 assbot: ESPN.com: Page 2 : Fear & Loathing in America

22:43:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00076425 = 4.5473 BTC [-]

22:46:34 mike_c: ThickAsThieves: by the way, i did some rounds of correlation analysis. s.mpoe continues to defy explanation. there is certainly no correlation to the exchange rate.

22:47:48 mircea_popescu: rng!

22:48:19 mircea_popescu: mike_c there's always ~some~ correlation. since you did the math anyway, what is it ?

22:48:20 mircea_popescu: .2 ?

22:48:21 mike_c: i don't know about stand alone, but it is when combined with the exchange rate in any fashion.

22:48:25 mike_c: lower

22:48:28 mike_c: below .1

22:48:29 mircea_popescu: lower than .2 ?!

22:48:31 mircea_popescu: o.O

22:48:38 mircea_popescu: that's rich.

22:49:12 mike_c: looking at any reasonable timeframe it is nothing. I tried to force it. took just the last few months, removed some of the recent dip/spikes, and got it up to 0.5

22:49:25 mike_c: but it was stupid

22:49:28 mircea_popescu: congrats, you basically did ta :D

22:49:45 mike_c: tea leaves came up empty

22:50:10 mike_c: the only surprise to me was just how low the correlation was.

22:50:22 mircea_popescu: i hear you.

22:50:27 mircea_popescu: !up hyhycaptain

22:54:38 hyhycaptain: ns identify 1DmtGhb*^&!

22:55:01 asciilifeform: ^ pw!?

22:55:09 Apocalyptic: probably

22:55:11 mircea_popescu: hyhycaptain change it now, chan is logged.

22:55:13 Apocalyptic: you may want to change that asap

22:55:55 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#826852

22:55:56 assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 22:54:38; hyhycaptain: ns identify 1DmtGhb*^&!

22:55:59 mircea_popescu: also separated pws are shitty. no <numbers><letters><symbols> crap.

22:56:39 hyhycaptain: ns release

22:56:48 BingoBoingo: DMT and GHB... tripping balls?

22:56:50 jurov: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/russia-putin-revolutionizing-information-warfare/379880/?single_page=true

22:56:50 assbot: Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic

22:57:08 Apocalyptic: hyhycaptain, is your "/" key broken ?

22:57:09 hyhycaptain: gee yes, and i can't find anything

22:57:13 xmj: jurov: i've seen it before

22:57:20 xmj: jurov: Goebbels would be SO fucking proud.

22:57:25 xmj: or maybe not; they're slavs.

22:57:58 jurov: that's how asciilifeform's conquest works

22:58:00 asciilifeform: proud >> of 'the atlantic.'

22:58:20 jurov: asciilifeform but it's true

22:58:42 jurov: i see here that horrible disinfo leaking from the east

22:59:17 jurov: such as, EU supposedly enforcing a "juvenile justice"

22:59:26 asciilifeform: jurov: how is that disinfo ?

22:59:26 mircea_popescu: assbot> Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic << gotta love the english agitprop, this entire "the gauls don't really exist so clearly they couldn't be at the gates" thing.

22:59:34 jurov: that will take kids away from heteros and give them to queers

22:59:35 mircea_popescu: "putin doesn;t understand how the world works"

23:00:09 asciilifeform: jurov: nope. in russia, people have successfully resisted, for the most part, the 'civilized' western notion that the crown has business taking children.

23:00:49 jurov: but whole juvenile justice story is fabricated

23:00:52 asciilifeform: the 'queers' angle is sprayed on by western journarasts.

23:00:57 mircea_popescu: jurov it's only nonsense in the form presented. otherwise, the eu does believe it has jurisdiction over children above and beyond that of the family.

23:01:00 mircea_popescu: ^

23:01:03 asciilifeform: as does usa.

23:01:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform usa is just a colony.

23:01:22 mircea_popescu: of course it'd fly along with whatever the french, the english and so forth figure out.

23:01:40 hyhycaptain: !up

23:02:33 jurov: of course that is how RT works

23:03:08 jurov: takes a grain of EU social care taking children

23:03:27 mircea_popescu: that grain is a grain in my eye.

23:03:45 jurov: mixes it with fear from queers adpting children

23:04:23 asciilifeform: 'prior to Americans' gay rights agitation, Russian gays used to be called ?faggots?; now they are being called ?American faggots,? and gay rights in Russia have taken a giant leap back.' - orlov

23:04:37 jurov: and now the nocsense is suddenly presented as fact and i have to convince half of my facebook friends

23:04:51 jurov: that such "juvenile justice" does not exist

23:05:09 mircea_popescu: jurov you'll have a hard time wiht it.

23:05:29 mircea_popescu: but yes it does exist : the eu state will, under a multitude of pretexts, steal children.

23:05:45 asciilifeform: so perhaps enemy does not bayonet babies and eat them under white sauce. he merely strangles them humanely and reprocesses into Garboil.

23:05:56 asciilifeform: go convince.

23:06:05 jurov: i indeed have a hard time with your insistence that everything out there is an overactive imagination of western journos

23:06:22 jurov: while putin never lied and never will

23:06:29 mircea_popescu: you mean his or mine ?

23:06:37 jurov: both

23:06:47 mircea_popescu: putin is lying every chance he gets, what.

23:06:56 mircea_popescu: how did i end up giving ~that~ impression for crying out loud.

23:08:02 jurov: you dismissed is as mere agitprop

23:08:46 xmj: jurov: I'm ruthless about russian supporters

23:08:54 mircea_popescu: but it's not what i said. i merely remarked on a particular mental complex, wherein the western agitprop calls things they don't like and can't derride "inexistent" a certain way

23:10:15 mircea_popescu: lemme model this. suppose we go out for a picnic, and suppose we're there with some girls, and suppose a cow comes and shits in our cornmeal pot. and suppose one of the girls goes "oh my!"

23:10:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it mostly works for the target audience. to most folks in usa, who are literate in no foreign languages, never travel except on official orders, etc. - if not thrown in their face, fact does not exist.

23:10:30 mircea_popescu: me mocking her for the "oh my" lulz doesn't mean i am in favour of cattle shitting in cookpots.

23:10:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is why this is funny.

23:10:54 jurov: anyhow. you both be glad you're living in countries divided by distance and language (more or less) from this shit

23:11:05 xmj: :|

23:11:06 jurov: slovakia is mentioned there for a reason

23:11:07 mircea_popescu: jurov you will note in my case this is not happenstance.

23:11:28 xmj: I'm glad I'm living in a country who has a couple of german tornados stationed in it

23:11:39 mircea_popescu: xmj they're allies you know.

23:11:50 asciilifeform: living where 'this shit' is grown, packaged, and flown out for export is not particularly thrilling either.

23:11:51 mircea_popescu: katyn or auschwitz, what's the big difference.

23:12:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude imagine for the sake of science fiction, a putin that didn't lie. like, ever. he'd be spotless like warm milk foam.

23:12:46 mircea_popescu: o.o

23:13:02 *: asciilifeform likes to show americans 'the venerable ancient Ukrs' - is almost never believed, even when rubbing their nose in primary source

23:13:11 mircea_popescu: they'd prolly flay him alive just for the cognitive dissonance

23:13:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what next, a pope that doesn't lie?

23:13:35 mircea_popescu: popes don't lie, they're just infallible and impeccable.

23:13:40 mircea_popescu: next best thing.

23:16:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1014 @ 0.00054999 = 0.5577 BTC [-] {2}

23:17:11 jurov: i was just venting my worries that this piece of world might not be safe again... obv mircea's lofty assessment "nah, agitprop" or ascii's urks hair splitting is not interesting to me,sorry

23:17:32 asciilifeform: safe ?

23:17:42 asciilifeform: from what?

23:18:08 asciilifeform: waffen ss? red army ?

23:18:15 mircea_popescu: jurov hey, i don't mind, by all means, go ahead.

23:18:40 mircea_popescu: you're probably right, it's not looking all that good.

23:18:41 jurov: when public space is increasingly and inessantly inundated by conspirations

23:18:46 jurov: that won't end well

23:19:07 asciilifeform: ask the conspirators to quit conspiring. that'd have a chance of fixing.

23:19:09 mircea_popescu: time to split, unless you somehow discover some passion for one side or the other and a desire to go to shooting practice.

23:19:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's like asking girls aged 16ish to stop giggling. yeah, that's gonna happen

23:19:38 asciilifeform: lol

23:19:44 mircea_popescu: it's not their cunt asking for a tending that's driving the giggling behaviour.

23:19:53 ThickAsThieves: <+mike_c> tea leaves came up empty /// i guess i was probly only paying attention to price at the time, maybe that was the .5 zone, shortly after my comments it totally decoupled

23:19:59 mircea_popescu: it's just, you know... they'r ebored

23:22:46 asciilifeform: as the anglo empires get swept from the stage, the bantustans they created with heroic strokes of pencil will go away. arabian, soviet, wherever.

23:23:07 thestringpuller: ;;ud bantustans

23:23:08 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bantustan | Literally: The Ghetto, the Worst of Urban Decay, the hardest of the hard hood. A bantustan (also known as black African homeland or simply homeland...

23:23:32 asciilifeform: if you're czech, slovak, pole - and don't relish idea of learning russian - better learn german.

23:23:35 asciilifeform: or chinese.

23:23:42 mike_c: da fuck with that atlantic article. i tried it in 3 browsers and it crashed them all.

23:23:43 thestringpuller: german is not bad

23:23:47 thestringpuller: chinese looks hard

23:24:00 jurov: there's difference between indigenous conspirations like www.universe-people.com and stuff did by state media

23:24:15 jurov: *done

23:24:21 jurov: and i'm done for today

23:24:25 jurov: later!

23:24:44 mircea_popescu: mike_c that's online media v3.0

23:24:48 asciilifeform: one of the more 'high tech' and interesting 'state media' tricks is to spray on a coating of 'conspiratorial Teflon' to an otherwise genuine piece of dirt

23:24:55 asciilifeform: so it doesn't stick to 'right thinking' heads.

23:25:06 mike_c: the atlantic is trying to steal my bitcoin

23:25:28 asciilifeform: !s crank bait

23:25:28 assbot: 3 results for 'crank bait' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=crank+bait

23:25:54 ThickAsThieves: i like that the putin drawing is a scanned bar napkin or sumth

23:26:00 asciilifeform: today is, incidentally, favourite american holiday celebrating this gambit.

23:26:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's more to this than just that. i've had an intern puit a bunch of fraudsters articles in reddit, across dozens of different subreddits. NONE stick. they're all "wrong", then the complainants get laughed out, then the matter dies.

23:26:10 mircea_popescu: this teflon phenomenon is a lot deeper.

23:26:57 *: asciilifeform 's favourite subject in this class.

23:26:58 mircea_popescu: there's a long and growing list of things you can do to a text to make it completely inaccessibl for the "right thinking" person.

23:27:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are many applicable 'teflons.'

23:27:17 mircea_popescu: i mean, just a certain tone is enough, subtle subjective positioning is enough

23:27:41 mircea_popescu: "this thing is written as if the soviet party isn't legitimate" < o noes and enough.

23:28:01 mircea_popescu: by now right thinkingness has become an extremely intricate, delicately balanced piece of work

23:28:15 mircea_popescu: western confucianism.

23:28:24 asciilifeform: the example jurov (inadvertently) gave us - is instructive. someone succeeded in 'tefloning' the 'juvenile justice' thing before it entered his brain.

23:28:57 mircea_popescu: i'm still reeling over the realisation that someone, somewhere, thinks im pro russian.

23:28:59 asciilifeform: i doubt anyone could persuade him that phenomenon in question is not a barbaric libel by russian queer-haters.

23:32:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'logic' presumably being, you must 'go with' the humans or the orcs, tertium non datur.

23:32:35 mircea_popescu: sucks for merlin, he who was here when each was born, and will be here to see them buried.

23:33:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7195 @ 0.00076108 = 5.476 BTC [-] {2}

23:34:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, for what it's worth, in my mind the correct approach to this problem is radical, corrosive antiteflon.

23:34:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what document worth the mention could get any traction on 'reddit' (today's, not circa '07, say) ?

23:34:51 mircea_popescu: the more people saying nigger and proposing rape as a solution to minute problems, the less effectual this teflon process is.

23:35:17 mircea_popescu: it only works in the first place because of a very narrow overton window achieved over decades of lazy prosperity.

23:35:24 mircea_popescu: that needs to be broken, for general welfare.

23:35:54 mircea_popescu: giving in and being polite even to the slightest degree just feeds the nonsense.

23:36:13 mircea_popescu: in contemporary english, it is the duty of any thinking person to be as offensive as the context will carry.

23:37:04 ThickAsThieves: to what end?

23:37:16 mircea_popescu: freedom, of course.

23:37:20 asciilifeform: in the peanut gallery - they say whatever. 'new york times' - won't say 'rapigger'.

23:37:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, it's why i carry a lot of sympathy for BingoBoingo's legal troubles.

23:37:43 mircea_popescu: seems to me he instinctively applied the correct solution from perhaps an untenable position

23:38:30 asciilifeform: if correct solution could be applied from correct position - problem would be lying dead in a ditch, right along with a few thousand fellow problems, similarly perforated.

23:38:58 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves when you confront an organised enemy, your options are two. either beat him but preserve his tools, which locks you into ruling in his stead, or else beat him and destroy his tools, which locks you into rebuilding.

23:39:13 mircea_popescu: there's little worse fate than having to take over and continue using with the present tools.

23:39:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: limonov had a beautiful discussion of this.

23:39:25 ThickAsThieves: hmm

23:39:28 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if correct solution could be applied from correct position << true.

23:40:06 ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure if i believe your ideal is more than fleetingly achieved

23:40:18 mircea_popescu: nor orgasm.

23:40:24 ThickAsThieves: heh

23:40:39 ThickAsThieves: i think of it like your movie idea and my ending

23:41:08 BingoBoingo: "Why do you think you can think?"

23:43:39 ThickAsThieves: fleeting is a lifetime for some, i guess that's good enough

23:45:36 asciilifeform: 'Take a look in History, flip through her pages. The first action in revolutions of recent history -- the erection of barricades. They'll smash the cobble stones of the street, dig them out, and block off the road with them. They'll stop cars, buses, fill the street with bricks. And also they'll attack, plunder, raze, and put to the torch the city hall, administrative buildings, presidential palace, parliamen

23:45:36 asciilifeform: t, shops, warehouses. The crowd has - a correct instinct. It would like to destroy the city - the citadel of power of the political and economic kind - the root cause of its travails. The crowd is stopped in its tracks by those who have plans for the city hall, for the presidential palace. We will not stop the crowd.' (Limonov, 'The Other Russia.') - translation mine.

23:46:34 mircea_popescu: the interesting thing here is that no longer is the city hall the seat of power. the irc channel is the seat of power.

23:46:49 mircea_popescu: which means long supressed passion will finally prevail, in a razing of city halls the world has never seen

23:47:01 mircea_popescu: perhaps not since the razing of ur

23:48:30 mircea_popescu: the bloodiest massacre in human history, a million or so killed over a few weeks.

23:48:49 mircea_popescu: a million before the fiat inflation of human population, back when they still had hard people, and a limited supply worldwide