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Transcript for 11-12-2014, 1356 lines:

00:05:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2500 @ 0.0012 = 3 BTC

00:07:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63538 @ 0.00064732 = 41.1294 BTC [-] {4}

00:16:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8971 @ 0.00064765 = 5.8101 BTC [+]

00:24:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.00065713 = 26.4823 BTC [+] {2}

00:31:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14651 @ 0.00068303 = 10.0071 BTC [+] {2}

00:32:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6649 @ 0.00068937 = 4.5836 BTC [+]

00:47:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13091 @ 0.00064765 = 8.4784 BTC [-]

01:05:39 mats: mircea_popescu: cool. i appreciate your patience, still working on picking up latin and romanian. and maintaining the other languages bouncing around in my head.

01:08:03 mats: ;;ident

01:08:03 gribble: Nick 'mats', with hostmask 'mats!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qffzshlqkntuoouh', is identified as user 'mats', with GPG key id B9527964891A5566, key fingerprint B37F49DC35FD838B1F8783CC59C93F63549036BD, and bitcoin address None

01:08:10 mats: mircea_popescu: 17HvePmDqPnKjZ79FrB1yicZPqyxTN4BnR

01:08:54 *: asciilifeform is ever more convinced that systemd, with its default setting of vomiting syslog to every ptty console (!), constantly, is really an elaborate trolling gag project

01:08:54 kakobrekla: now your bitcoin address will get ddosed :\

01:09:59 mats: :(

01:10:44 mats: asciilifeform: seen the latest on 'Ubuntu Core'? piles on piles of shit.

01:10:56 asciilifeform: why and how would i even see this.

01:11:14 ben_vulpes: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/snappy << relevant

01:11:14 assbot: Announcing Snappy Ubuntu | Cloud | Ubuntu ... ( http://bit.ly/167TuhY )

01:11:24 undata: on azure!

01:11:44 undata: I would laugh my ass off for days if MS ever bought Canonical

01:11:56 asciilifeform: only remembered 'systemd' now because happened to switch on a machine in my collection, a 'google chromebook a15', based on single-chip 'arm.' afaik, no clean (traditional init) linux distro has ever been published for said machine.

01:12:12 asciilifeform: the real insult is that the manufacturer's stock os is: a bastardized gentoo.

01:12:33 asciilifeform: but go and try to set up a normal gentoo, in such a way that all of the necessary peripherals (gpu, power controller) actually work.

01:12:45 asciilifeform: afaik, no one has achieved this.

01:14:09 undata: asciilifeform: tried doing a localyesconfig on the Chrome OS?

01:14:20 asciilifeform: i'm not interested in using 'chrome os.'

01:14:23 asciilifeform: for anything.

01:14:34 undata: asciilifeform: nah, that would give you a kernel config for gentoo proper

01:14:47 asciilifeform: except it wouldn't

01:14:47 asciilifeform: there are closed blobs in there.

01:14:52 undata: oh, terrible!

01:15:20 asciilifeform: bought that thing >1 yr ago, because could not resist an attempt at a laptop that is entirely solid state, can be carried in one hand, and runs 12+hrs on a charge

01:15:33 asciilifeform: part of eternal quest for 'write in bed' machine

01:15:54 undata: my most recent purchase was a lenovo x1 carbon

01:15:56 asciilifeform: and non-x86 modern portable having keyboard is such a rarity that could not be passed up

01:15:57 undata: the thinkpad brand is dead

01:16:24 asciilifeform: the non-thinkpad brands are even deader.

01:16:58 undata: I'm pretty sure this one has a hardware issue; / remounts read-only sporadically

01:17:06 asciilifeform: but this tale was not about a 'proper' laptop, but attempt to glue together a portable-with-keyboard that isn't x86 and therefore can actually achieve some serious runtime on battery

01:17:06 undata: yet there are no bad blocks to be found

01:17:50 asciilifeform: undata: loose mount (as in physical connector) ?

01:18:07 undata: asciilifeform: perhaps, though restarting it without jiggling anything always works

01:19:56 *: asciilifeform full of wrath re: google profiting off all of the work that folks put into linux, to create the abortion spoken of earlier; a deliberate hardware troll.

01:20:39 undata: that's their move; buy things that can be bought, snatch the free stuff

01:21:10 asciilifeform: i can easily understand now why theo de raadt zapped support for loadable kernel modules in openbsd

01:21:14 undata: shovel out shiny thing covered in ads and spyware

01:21:28 asciilifeform: the only way to prevent this kind of situation - a pure scorched earth approach

01:21:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2025 @ 0.0012 = 2.43 BTC

01:22:57 asciilifeform: not that someone could not, hypothetically, link a blob into an openbsd kernel and try to persuade folks to use it. but the result would probably be: laughter.

01:23:20 asciilifeform: somehow the loadability seems to be psychologically necessary for blob acceptance.

01:24:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00065049 = 6.8301 BTC [+]

01:26:48 decimation: asciilifeform: or fork openbsd

01:26:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 5250 @ 0.0012 = 6.3 BTC

01:27:00 decimation: but in the case it wouldn't openbsd anymore

01:27:11 decimation: and one couldn't bake a meatloaf with particles of linux and call it 'linux'

01:27:13 asciilifeform: decimation: hell knows how many entirely-closed industrial turds contain a bsd

01:28:08 asciilifeform: the chromebook thing is just like the situation i spoke of last week: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-12-2014#944963

01:28:08 assbot: Logged on 04-12-2014 04:32:47; asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/a/llwZ2

01:28:24 asciilifeform: a gizmo, ships with a linux variant

01:28:29 asciilifeform: but only runs because contains turds

01:28:46 decimation: I've been tagged with supporting a 'palo alto' vpn turd box. I'm pretty sure it's bsd

01:28:50 asciilifeform: if you try to construct own linux (or bsd, whichever) on the machine - nothing but torment

01:29:19 decimation: asciilifeform: only google knows the right bits to flip I guess

01:29:35 asciilifeform: it will either refuse to run at all, or worse - run intermittently because there nominally exist open drivers for the necessary peripherals, but the manufacturer did not used them

01:29:49 asciilifeform: *use

01:29:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.1401008 = 2.802 BTC [-] {2}

01:30:12 decimation: they probably hired some taiwanese code monkeys to write drivers with the nda'ed full docs

01:30:28 asciilifeform: and then you go and buy 25 different gizmos to see if even one does not meet this pattern

01:30:37 asciilifeform: and end up with a crate of scrap

01:30:39 asciilifeform: because 100%.

01:31:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.140001 = 3.08 BTC [-]

01:32:36 decimation: it pisses me off that one cannot buy a 100% nda free x86 system

01:32:42 decimation: yes, I know about the 'novena'

01:32:45 asciilifeform: what processor - can ?

01:33:14 asciilifeform: can i see the mask for 'arm' core - the actual production mask - without nda?

01:33:21 asciilifeform: or, for that matter, with ?

01:33:34 decimation: I just want the spec and docs (with talmud of errata)

01:34:06 asciilifeform: 'novena laptop' is a hardware troll

01:34:06 decimation: some intel peripheral chips are documented

01:34:12 decimation: well, I would give novena a hell of alot more credit if they actually shipped

01:34:14 asciilifeform: that is, something so laughably and irredeemably inadequate for its nominal purpose that its very existence is a troll.

01:34:25 decimation: it appears to me they have been 'prototyping' for about a year

01:34:39 decimation: and they are still 'fundraising' as far as I can tell

01:35:16 decimation: with a reasonable and open bus, it would be simple to plug in an fpga card if one wanted to use

01:35:25 decimation: PCI is neither reasonable nor open

01:35:26 asciilifeform: where is the open fpga?

01:35:35 decimation: no it uses xilinix

01:35:41 asciilifeform: pci is a paragon of transparency compared with any extant fpga

01:35:45 decimation: I guess 'no nda' just means drivers specs

01:35:48 decimation: yeah

01:36:08 asciilifeform: and how about the micro in the ssd ?

01:36:08 asciilifeform: whither the specs

01:36:09 decimation: hehe asciilifeform pokes

01:36:23 asciilifeform: will poke until it bursts. and it doesn't take much.

01:36:58 asciilifeform: hardware trolls - to scrapyard. authors - to biodiesel.

01:36:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.140001 = 2.8 BTC [-]

01:37:10 decimation: one wonders about the touchscreen drivers too

01:37:29 decimation: what about the keyboard uC firmware?

01:37:37 decimation: and so forth

01:38:19 asciilifeform: the most enraging thing is the idiots who think there has been -any- progress made on this front.

01:38:30 asciilifeform: because this is a situation where anything short of 100% is equivalent to 0%.

01:38:44 decimation: basically to even *start* to do anything will require someone like that russian billionare giving a shit

01:39:20 asciilifeform: would have to give enough of a shit to fund, but not enough to attempt to direct. this will happen shortly after pigs fly.

01:39:53 decimation: yeah. if herr watson wishes to poke at modernity that would be a good start

01:40:12 decimation: but his few $mil is too piddly to accomplish anything

01:44:32 asciilifeform: incidentally, there once lived upon the good earth a group of people who carried on development of entirely open computer hardware, prying open closed turds whenever they felt necessary without even breaking a sweat

01:44:38 asciilifeform: and daring anyone to try to stop them

01:44:44 asciilifeform: it was called the ussr.

01:45:40 mats: well, when the rocket leaves the pad, id be happy to join you in this prying

01:46:03 *: asciilifeform favours the 'year zero' approach, but this is not news

01:46:39 asciilifeform: a forcibly blown open 'xilinx' soft/hard stack would be a good start though.

01:47:19 asciilifeform: as i may have once explained, the chicoms have not done this and should not be expected to ever do it, because fpga is profoundly useless in a mass consumer product.

01:47:19 asciilifeform: fundamentally.

01:47:19 decimation: asciilifeform: "US Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act...' << obey or gasenwagen!" << USG generally has no problem giving commands to 'technical people' in its Vader Voice

01:47:37 asciilifeform: decimation: that line was a 'the mask fell off' moment in that article.

01:47:50 asciilifeform: decimation: after it, there could be no mistake as to the nature and motivations of the author.

01:48:02 decimation: not only is open fpga useless for consumer market, it openly antagonizes it

01:49:00 asciilifeform: it is simply wasteful for any extant mass application - does a dildo need general-purpose switching matrix logic ?

01:49:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 3000 @ 0.0012 = 3.6 BTC

01:49:22 asciilifeform: don't wait for the chinese to copy fpga. they have no reason whatsoever to.

01:49:49 asciilifeform: for prototyping (the only thing they are presently used for) they are happy to buy the american chips and use their closed turdchains.

01:50:00 decimation: yeah, it really is only useful for 'actual people' who want to research interesting digital applications

01:50:02 asciilifeform: just as china (along with the rest of the planet) happily runs winblows.

01:50:09 decimation: this is not a large market

01:50:51 asciilifeform: it's a market of, what... 10 people.

01:50:58 decimation: is this dominance of xilinix, ms, etc really a case of the 'giant' sitting on the stool?

01:51:06 asciilifeform: i will not only die of old age but probably manage to fossilize before anyone ever thinks of serving this market.

01:51:11 decimation: it seems to me that if there were any midgets, they are long gone

01:51:30 asciilifeform: decimation: the midgets were exterminated, possibly before birth, by patents

01:51:51 decimation: yeah and copyright in the case of ms

01:52:05 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model

01:52:12 decimation: it's a neat trick to time-warp into the future and murder your competitors in the womb

01:52:24 asciilifeform: licensing of circuit modules

01:52:34 asciilifeform: this is because it is quite impossible, as i understand, to really make serious money selling the chips

01:52:52 asciilifeform: they virtually never end up in consumer products except as a result of extreme haste (rushing a prototype to market)

01:53:01 decimation: yeah I've heard it referred to as the "ip cores" market

01:53:11 asciilifeform: (where!? see, e.g, the 'rio pmp' early mp3 player.)

01:53:26 asciilifeform: !s xilinx

01:53:27 assbot: 42 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx

01:53:30 asciilifeform: discussed here on several separate occasions.

01:53:34 decimation: apparently the the prices they charge for these "ip cores" are highly negotiable depending on your account with them

01:54:03 asciilifeform: and their ability to carry out this 'air merchant' trick is entirely tied to a maximally-closed chip architecture.

01:54:28 asciilifeform: otherwise it would be a simple matter to learn how the mystery meat module works and remplement.

01:54:34 asciilifeform: *reimplement

01:54:48 decimation: yeah whenever I hear "ip cores" I immediately think of all the legal bullshit that they are pimping to support their 'business'

01:55:27 decimation: maybe some snowden working for xilinix will release the dox one day

01:55:29 asciilifeform: doesn't do much good

01:55:42 decimation: they would probably just discontinue that line

01:55:43 asciilifeform: i did tell the tale, of how on one occasion someone succeeded in mostly reversing a particular chip

01:55:50 asciilifeform: it is now entirely unobtainable.

01:56:12 asciilifeform: almost as much as the first (and last, and only) xilinx part that had open docs from the vendor

01:56:36 asciilifeform: it is never enough to reverse engineer a particular item.

01:56:48 asciilifeform: the results must go into soviet-style production by the megatonne.

01:57:00 asciilifeform: at least, for a silicon chip, that cannot be made in a cellar

01:57:16 decimation: that's something the russian billionare could help with

01:57:29 asciilifeform: but why

01:57:29 decimation: unfortunately there is not much 'spare' capacity

01:57:42 asciilifeform: there will -never- be spare capacity for a counter-economic project.

01:57:55 decimation: the only credible buyers I can imagine are non-us defense

01:58:13 asciilifeform: the same folks happily running winblows and ms-office ?

01:58:16 asciilifeform: hahaha

01:58:19 decimation: yeah I know

01:58:30 asciilifeform: martian defense.

01:58:30 asciilifeform: that's who'll buy.

01:59:11 decimation: as long as usg sits on the stool it will remain that way

01:59:32 asciilifeform: i'm not convinced this is a usg-dependent phenomenon

01:59:44 decimation: no, the real driver is the expense of a chip fab

01:59:46 asciilifeform: as in, usg can and will perish, but the widgets spoken of here will not magically appear.

01:59:56 asciilifeform: there would have to be some rational mechanism to bring them into being.

02:00:08 decimation: cheap chip fabrication would do it

02:00:32 decimation: but that's almost science fiction

02:00:32 asciilifeform: if you had cheap chip fab, there would not even be much reason to build fpga !

02:00:50 decimation: I mean if we could 'kickstart' such a design for a few $K

02:00:57 asciilifeform: other than for exotic circuits that reprogram selves, etc

02:01:04 asciilifeform: even then

02:01:11 decimation: actually the design work is way more than the fabrication

02:01:21 asciilifeform: nope.

02:01:34 asciilifeform: not if you're the designer

02:01:40 decimation: well, costs lifetime then

02:02:00 asciilifeform: costs no more than we're paying now to talk.

02:02:44 decimation: including the warez for design toolchain?

02:03:16 asciilifeform: ideally, a from-scratch rational reimplementation (that ignores patents on best-known algos, yes)

02:03:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.140001 = 1.4 BTC [-]

02:04:02 asciilifeform: technically if you were to write a logic synthesis tool today, from scratch, it would still be 'warez'

02:04:37 asciilifeform: i generally tag all of the parties responsible for this state of affairs as agents of usg, whether they would think of themselves as such or not.

02:05:57 decimation: certainly most of their sales are to usg's layer 2

02:06:20 decimation: there aren't many fpgas in consumer chips in general

02:06:25 decimation: consumer boards I should say

02:06:38 asciilifeform: wasn't speaking of fpga specifically

02:07:03 asciilifeform: but anyone involved in the patent of algorithms apparatus

02:07:07 asciilifeform: in whatever capacity.

02:07:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.13995025 = 5.598 BTC [-] {3}

02:08:03 decimation: ironically the us got its start pirating machine designs from england

02:08:10 asciilifeform: this is well-known.

02:08:58 decimation: that and talented machinists would leave to 'seed' enterprises in europe & elsewhere

02:10:30 asciilifeform: the secret boojum of chip business is that anything whose production is inherently centralized to that degree, is almost divinely ordained to suck.

02:11:15 asciilifeform: if rifles could only be produced in 12 places on the planet, most fighting would still be conducted with spears and axes.

02:11:55 decimation: heh http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/MG/I/MG-2.html#16 << related

02:11:57 assbot: HyperWar: The Machine Gun (Vol. I/Part II) ... ( http://bit.ly/1wixV6N )

02:12:24 asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb

02:12:25 assbot: 10 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb

02:12:29 asciilifeform: ^ more related

02:13:34 undata: asciilifeform: how much money would you need to produce said computer and a suitable OS?

02:13:45 asciilifeform: suitable for whom ?

02:14:13 undata: a guy wanting to write some code and keep a secret or two

02:14:31 asciilifeform: very vague, this.

02:14:46 *: undata hands asciilifeform his busted laptop

02:14:51 undata: something that replaces this piece of trash

02:15:05 asciilifeform: back to chip thread, for a spell - we're roughly in the situation of ancient china, which had printing but not movable type

02:15:33 asciilifeform: the closest thing anyone has conceived off to movable type re: chip design is the fpga concept.

02:16:00 asciilifeform: which is actually more analogous to a teletype (slow, ponderous, you would not want to print a book's print run on it)

02:16:10 asciilifeform: but indispensable for certain work.

02:16:29 decimation: and it isn't 'movable type' in the sense that someone with a brain can arrange the internals to serve his needs

02:17:04 asciilifeform: the way i understand it, a 100% open fpga, produced in a thousand factories of mutually-antagonistic owners, is the one and only way to 'open computer.'

02:17:23 asciilifeform: unless some fundamental discovery enabling cellar chip fab were to be made

02:17:34 decimation: or 'chip printing'

02:17:49 decimation: both of which are fantastic science fiction today

02:17:49 asciilifeform: ^ grantsmanship, usg desinfo.

02:18:29 asciilifeform: nothing remotely resembling a 'chip printer' is conceivable with presently-known physics

02:18:59 decimation: yeah it is easier to conceive of trained bacteria who arrange parts appropriately

02:19:15 decimation: 'bio-assembly' or whatever

02:19:16 asciilifeform: bacterium is almost as much too large as you and i.

02:19:22 asciilifeform: for this work.

02:19:31 asciilifeform: even if he had hands.

02:20:05 asciilifeform: once you clear away the usg grantsmanship, what mr. mold called 'scientocracy', you realize that actual science mostly 100% stopped around 1960.

02:20:05 decimation: yeah one would need trained molecules

02:20:32 asciilifeform: at least in the english world.

02:21:00 decimation: yes, usg 'sat' on this stool too

02:22:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 875 @ 0.0012 = 1.05 BTC

02:23:01 asciilifeform: usg annihilated science to an extent no one ever, i suspect, thought of as possible.

02:23:25 asciilifeform: in contrast, e.g., trofim lysenko's victims were at least intellectually-equipped to understand what was happening to them.

02:23:56 mircea_popescu: mats but there please.

02:25:18 decimation: asciilifeform: reading about lysenko immediately conjures the 'stierlitz files' where all the nazis had a high-school education

02:25:57 decimation: usg also stole the "having stolen science"

02:26:17 asciilifeform: the ones with actual education, went off to derp in aryan physics or annenerbe etc.

02:26:31 asciilifeform: big, fat difference.

02:26:35 decimation: or fled

02:26:45 asciilifeform: note, there was a where to flee.

02:26:58 decimation: heh true this

02:27:14 asciilifeform: where do you flee from the planet-devourer -if you want to do science- ?

02:27:27 asciilifeform: no destination.

02:27:45 decimation: king neptune?

02:27:59 asciilifeform: lol

02:32:03 decimation: mircea_popescu: I like your romanian poet/french revolution quote. It could almost be used as a motto for the west today

02:32:33 mircea_popescu: hehe.

02:33:05 mircea_popescu: the irony of modernity is that there's no shortage of answers. in fact, they're written generally a century ago. just... nobody [knows how to] reads.

02:34:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40552 @ 0.0006453 = 26.1682 BTC [-] {5}

02:35:07 *: asciilifeform should like the answer to 'how do i grow single-crystal si in jungle conditions, how do i lay down dopant with ion beam sans high vacuum' etc.

02:35:16 *: asciilifeform wants to know in what roman text these answers lie.

02:35:32 *: asciilifeform can read.

02:35:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00067574 = 16.6232 BTC [+] {2}

02:36:18 mircea_popescu: ah but! we're talking of different things.

02:36:23 mircea_popescu: he was discussing politics and society.

02:36:27 asciilifeform: aha lol

02:36:40 asciilifeform: the human zoo's been around for quite some time, yes.

02:36:48 asciilifeform: well-documented.

02:38:09 mircea_popescu: quiote

02:47:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8929 @ 0.00063894 = 5.7051 BTC [-]

02:53:50 decimation: asciilifeform: I wouldn't mind a 500 micrometer fab if it were possible at home

02:54:40 asciilifeform: i wouldn't mind a car that runs on farts, if it were possible at home.

02:55:26 decimation: hehe

02:55:29 undata: I'm still interested to hear an estimate on the R&D cost of an 'actual' computer

02:56:00 asciilifeform: undata: i can't even begin to say, because the expense involved is literally astronomical.

02:56:12 asciilifeform: as in, you would have to re-create entire industries from scratch

02:56:27 asciilifeform: as if after a global thermonuking.

02:56:58 asciilifeform: and you would not stand to make any of it back. it would have to be a purely narcissistic pyramid built for the self-aggrandizement of some king.

02:57:14 ben_vulpes: fluffypony: you're in with the monetas crowd, right?

02:57:29 decimation: asciilifeform: what language would you use to model 'dataflow' processing?

02:57:58 asciilifeform: a language that i don't even care to discuss because it cannot be meaningfully executed on existing hardware.

02:58:35 asciilifeform: everyone i've ever spoken with on the subject ended up mentally mutilating it to fit his von neumman and synchronous cpu preconceptions.

02:58:56 asciilifeform: ideally, i would teach it only to those who had never programmed a computer previously.

02:59:04 asciilifeform: or are at least 'mostly virgin'

02:59:17 asciilifeform: as in, the mental equivalents of the membranes are still largely intact.

02:59:31 decimation: I can see that. I imagine it would have ben something kinda like verilog with features that help you design asynchronous circuitry

02:59:31 asciilifeform: close.

02:59:57 asciilifeform: s-expression syntax, for reasons described in the 'brick' essay.

03:00:06 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i wouldn't mind a car that runs on farts, if it were possible at home. << can you imagine hpow that'd go ? how it'd smell ? how uncomfortable the gas pipe'd get ?

03:00:08 asciilifeform: but even what i've said so far is hopelessly inaccurate.

03:00:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't imagine a home chip fab would smell much better.

03:00:38 mircea_popescu: yeah but you wouldn't try to get head in it.

03:00:40 asciilifeform: ever smell even a humble laser cutter ?

03:00:49 asciilifeform: or an indoor space where it had been in use in the past week.

03:01:01 mircea_popescu: never been near one that wasn't ventilated.

03:01:11 asciilifeform: even with powerful exhaust motor and chimney.

03:01:17 mircea_popescu: !up kdomanski

03:01:17 asciilifeform: there is always a little leak.

03:01:38 mircea_popescu: mostly virgin lol.

03:03:12 decimation: if there is anything this channel emphasizes, it seems to me that it is the downside of what appears to be 'the good'

03:03:50 mircea_popescu: as in, the downside of "the good stuff that can be had for cheap" ?

03:03:58 decimation: no one else writes about the downside of compilers as a technology (to my knowledge)

03:04:00 mircea_popescu: like... intellectually cheap "investing" ?

03:04:04 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah roughly

03:04:07 mircea_popescu: yeah, it's kinda what it is and kinda where it started.

03:04:36 decimation: I rolled over a pretty big retirement account into a fiat dollar broker

03:04:52 decimation: they gave me a 'free subscription' to 'investment training' - with seminars (not free!)

03:05:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: part of eternal quest for 'write in bed' machine << i hate writing in bed.

03:05:17 mircea_popescu: decimation upsell all the way out of the well!

03:05:46 decimation: yeah exactly

03:05:51 *: asciilifeform finds that he thinks better horizontally (in all possible orientations) but has never come across a computer that he could actually put to use in that position.

03:06:13 decimation: asciilifeform: I think you would need 'chorded handles' so you could lay your arms on the bed

03:06:24 mircea_popescu: undata that's pretty much google yeah. and also everyone else trying to copy them (fb etc)

03:06:37 asciilifeform: decimation: the display, in practice, is the hard part

03:06:45 decimation: what about mounting gizmo that extends from wall or whatever?

03:06:52 mircea_popescu: i think best walking. am not trying to get a walking computor tho

03:06:58 asciilifeform: decimation: lol, just no.

03:07:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform every single room in this country has hardware, wrought iron tv supporter. i've not seen a tv yet standed on any surface.

03:07:38 undata: mircea_popescu: I prefer standing desks; pacing and thinking go well together

03:07:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think nearly as well when walking, and spent many years trying to construct something like a 'walking computer.'

03:08:26 asciilifeform: 'standing desk' has come into fashion where i live.

03:09:05 asciilifeform: all the way to elaborate, $1k+ hydraulic lift desks with position memory.

03:10:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: would have to give enough of a shit to fund, but not enough to attempt to direct. this will happen shortly after pigs fly. << incidentally, this is why the idle rich are so important irl.

03:10:41 decimation: also 'walking desk'

03:11:06 decimation: usg has more-or-less 'sat' upon the idle rich

03:11:12 mircea_popescu: all the bad things teh french revolution hated, like you know, lord X who owns property but "doesn't give anything back to society"

03:11:19 mircea_popescu: turns out... he's giving society breathing space.

03:11:48 undata: things like son-of-son of oculus rift or magic leap might provide walk-and-compute of some sort, but will be hopelessly tied to derptech

03:11:55 undata: facebook and google respectively

03:12:16 undata: both of which could be seen as parasitic destroyers of anything that smells remotely innovative in the US economy

03:12:23 mircea_popescu: i honestly do not wish to write either walking or laying down.

03:12:29 mircea_popescu: im happy thinking there, can write sitting later.

03:13:00 undata: programming tends to piss me off; pacing is the release valve

03:13:11 undata: at a previous job we even had a sand-filled punching bag for that

03:13:29 mircea_popescu: so i guess need more women in tech ?

03:15:02 undata: definitely, so they can file suit when the male programmers curse and throw things, which is only natural when you're up to your eyes in shit

03:15:46 undata: expressing anger having become socially unacceptable is one of the signs that the US is dead

03:15:52 mircea_popescu: more like frustration

03:15:56 mircea_popescu: i've not yet seen an angry american.

03:16:30 mircea_popescu: ;;google "And I looked at him and my blood ran cold"

03:16:31 gribble: JOHNNY CASH LYRICS - A Boy Named Sue - A-Z Lyrics: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/aboynamedsue.html; A Boy Named Sue - Shel Silverstein (Lyrics and Chords): http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/aboyname.htm; A BOY NAMED SUE - Lyrics - International Lyrics Playground: http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/a/aboynamedsue.shtml

03:16:36 *: undata is used to people thinking he's too angry, is probably even-keeled by rational standards

03:16:47 mircea_popescu: it's a fabled beast.

03:17:03 undata: mircea_popescu: naw I was raised by a proper cold-warrior; they exist

03:17:16 undata: two actually, if you count step-parents

03:17:19 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHPuY88Ry4 << check out his pompadour lmao

03:17:20 assbot: Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1x48ybL )

03:18:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if rifles could only be produced in 12 places on the planet, most fighting would still be conducted with spears and axes. <<< there's a lot of depth to this observation. for instance :

03:19:27 mircea_popescu: consider that china had helicopter designs cca 500ad, it had known of gunpowder for 3k years by the time we finally heard of it and they were writing alchemy treatises before homer was even walking the earth.

03:19:37 mircea_popescu: but it ~seems~ rational to centralize such things

03:19:50 mircea_popescu: and so they went nowhere.

03:20:14 mircea_popescu: just like the ottomans ended up "the sick man of europe" through a particular choice of centralisation

03:20:21 decimation: it is hard to convince the giant that allowing space for the midgets would be good for him

03:20:26 mircea_popescu: (they put a group of men in exclusive charge of battlefield rifle use)

03:21:12 mircea_popescu: the only great fortune of europe in the industrial age was that they copied the dutch approach (as the tulip mania was coming to a close, dutch courts simply refused to intervene in any capacity and "Fuck you!")

03:21:30 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, had this been centrally planned, it'd have worked as well as that whore cixi's trains.

03:21:34 BingoBoingo: Perfect writing in bed implement exists already, pen + paper

03:21:57 mircea_popescu: why the fuck would i write on a platform that doesn't run grep o.O

03:22:38 mircea_popescu: !up user

03:23:19 decimation: https://rwcg.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/in-which-david-cote-has-decided-you-dont-care-about-how-youre-living-and-his-opinion-on-that-matters-for-some-reason/ << new kind of obamacare fascism

03:23:21 assbot: In which David Cote has decided you don’t care about how you’re living, and his opinion on that matters for some reason | RWCG ... ( http://bit.ly/1x493T8 )

03:23:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: usg annihilated science to an extent no one ever, i suspect, thought of as possible. << lol not so. again the chinese lead. they burned the books 2x.

03:23:37 mircea_popescu: and the pope did a lot better cca 7-900 ad too.

03:24:06 mircea_popescu: decimation i like that title.

03:24:38 decimation: apparently obamacare 'allows' employers to give you a 'discount' off your 'insurance' premiums if you enroll in their hitlerjunge programes

03:24:55 mircea_popescu: lol. they copied that off japan.

03:24:58 decimation: yeah I like this guy's blog, he edits the mainstream media

03:25:11 mircea_popescu: i knew the moment the japanese started with that weird, and the us libtard class started paying attention, i knew this was coming.

03:25:27 mircea_popescu: famously, ceausescu once visited kim in korea, came back with a cockfull of life and brand new ideas of how to perfect socialism.

03:25:38 mircea_popescu: i guess this is the us' great eastern visit.

03:26:36 decimation: yeah that's an interesting way to put it. asians would generally place the 'good of the company ' in front of their dignity

03:27:41 mircea_popescu: https://rwcg.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/in-which-david-cote-has-decided-you-dont-care-about-how-youre-living-and-his-opinion-on-that-matters-for-some-reason/#comment-29999 << wonder what comes of that.

03:27:42 assbot: In which David Cote has decided you don’t care about how you’re living, and his opinion on that matters for some reason | RWCG ... ( http://bit.ly/1x49pcs )

03:29:00 decimation: I think he is some kind of trader that works for a major firm

03:29:04 decimation: he had a whole thread about the london whale and associated retardation

03:30:01 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:32:15 mircea_popescu: sooo buenos aires has decided to set itself on fire because some local team won the local football cup.

03:32:25 mircea_popescu: this is about 3x the mess they made over world cup stuff.

03:35:39 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> part of eternal quest for 'write in bed' machine << macbook air?

03:38:08 ben_vulpes: sounds like portland, mircea_popescu. irrelevant on the global scale but 'omg have you tried these donuts my brother makes?!'

03:48:25 decimation: so I find these AI doomsayers highly amusing. most of them would laugh at a Christian's claim of revelation (knowledge which comes neither through induction nor deduction) but are more than happy to jump on board the eliezer yudkowsky tard train because "I know it is true"

03:49:50 undata: decimation: the "singularity" is precisely technobabble heaven

03:50:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00067889 = 2.3761 BTC [+]

03:50:54 undata: seems like the AI doom scenario is just the inverted singularity

03:51:10 mircea_popescu: !up aabtc

03:51:57 decimation: !up badon

03:51:58 mircea_popescu: decimation the magical mental needs of the feeble minded don't go away simply because they are surrounded by / live in a society based on more advanced thoughts.

03:52:28 decimation: right, but in this case the 'feeble minded' are also the supposed captains of technology/science

03:52:40 mircea_popescu: you can dress 'em whichever way you want, but in the end a monkey merely trained to recognise the letters is not a scholar, and just so these "modern" men and women are in fact quite primitive.

03:52:42 undata: heaven/hell myths are found everywhere

03:53:23 undata: probably crudely useful to imagine "best" and "worst" possible circumstances when you don't have many concepts to rub together

03:53:56 mircea_popescu: i dunno, the traditional heaven (dude, it's like a really large field, we can camp and hike! and graze!)

03:54:01 mircea_popescu: seems to me pretty dang awful.

03:54:11 undata: mircea_popescu: yeah, we'll need a better heaven! heaven 3.0

03:54:26 undata: with sex-robots and teleportation

03:55:50 decimation: the Bible is certainly unclear on the specifics. I imagine it is a place where one can ask God wtf he was thinking

03:56:26 mircea_popescu: !s secret of turbulent flow

03:56:27 assbot: 0 results for 'secret of turbulent flow' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=secret+of+turbulent+flow

03:56:30 mircea_popescu: psssh

03:57:05 mircea_popescu: !s secret of turbulence

03:57:06 assbot: 0 results for 'secret of turbulence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=secret+of+turbulence

03:57:27 *: undata wonders whether there aren't things resembling heaven, hell and the other very basic concepts rolling around in his subconscious

03:57:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2014#567906

03:57:36 assbot: Logged on 19-03-2014 19:04:08; asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von K?rm?n surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von K?rm?n spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'

03:57:45 decimation: lol

03:58:41 danielpbarron: 10:55 <+decimation> the Bible is certainly unclear on the specifics. << seems pretty specific to me https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A9-21&version=NKJV

03:58:42 assbot: Revelation 21:9-21 NKJV - The New Jerusalem - Then one of the - Bible Gateway ... ( http://bit.ly/1vRQBfd )

03:58:50 undata: I don't know how scientific the Jungian stuff is

03:58:55 undata: which is to say, not

03:59:17 undata: but maybe certain behaviors (like imagining a 'heaven' state) are instinctive

04:00:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10115 @ 0.00068937 = 6.973 BTC [+]

04:00:43 *: undata requests the changelog for the human mind

04:09:10 undata: danielpbarron: strictly speaking, that's not heaven

04:09:16 undata: that's the new earth or whatever

04:11:09 danielpbarron: it's described as "the bride, the Lamb’s wife" and "the great city, the holy Jerusalem"

04:12:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4942 @ 0.00067036 = 3.3129 BTC [-] {2}

04:13:45 undata: danielpbarron: right, god's supposed to drop that new city on jerusalem

04:13:45 undata: so not heaven, earth

04:14:59 undata: hm, actually the description is more munged together than that

04:15:02 danielpbarron: Jerusalem is God and God is the kingdom of heaven http://www.atruechurch.info/throne.html

04:15:03 assbot: A True Church - The Throne, Heaven, and the Kingdom Are God. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vRUPDB )

04:15:06 undata: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

04:15:24 undata: what does god have against the sea?

04:16:09 undata: anyhow that makes it sound like some kind of heaven on earth scenario

04:16:12 undata: gold walls and everything

04:17:21 danielpbarron: physical things exist in heaven; that is not an attribute limited to earthly things

04:19:00 undata: " Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

04:19:02 undata: "

04:19:16 undata: curse you, paste gods

04:19:49 decimation: undata: but this is exactly the 'revelation' point I was making above

04:22:53 undata: decimation: which?

04:23:04 undata: I agree that they're both the same flavor of magical thinking.

04:23:20 decimation: My point is that everyone has magical thinking

04:23:28 undata: ah yeah, then agreed doubly

04:23:59 undata: takes vigilance to do otherwise

04:24:18 decimation: I'm not sure it is humanly possibly, but I only have myself to speak for

04:24:36 undata: however, it might be adaptive to have a touch of it; would I keep working towards escaping the gravity well if I wasn't certain I can accomplish it?

04:25:12 undata: though that might not be too magical; I'm not asserting that it *will* happen, merely deciding to press on towards it

04:26:12 undata: it's hard to draw that line

04:26:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.0006661 = 5.2955 BTC [-]

04:27:09 undata: decimation: I've wondered whether our capacity for creativity is exactly what tends to rot the brain

04:27:15 cazalla: anyone with an xbox account able to find out for me if microsoft is using bitpay or coinbase for this accept bitcoin news?

04:27:57 undata: decimation: from a certain perspective, imagining things that do not exist and creating them is delusion-fueled activity

04:28:47 decimation: undata: I think there is a 'yearning for meaning' inside of each human, and that generally drives them to choose a god of some kind

04:29:08 decimation: often themselves - self-appointment to what is god and what isn't

04:29:20 undata: decimation: yeah, some kind of "truth" accumulator

04:31:35 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: macbook air << funny that you mention that machine, because i have the original model. it mostly gathers dust.

04:32:01 undata: asciilifeform: that's probably my next one after this wreck

04:32:09 undata: I had a retina macbook, total rubbish

04:32:38 asciilifeform: usg has more-or-less 'sat' upon the idle rich << the 'idle' (what does this mean? presumably, not occupied with directing a megacorp?) rich still exist. they spend on coke and orbital flights with hookers, not rebuilding of computing.

04:33:10 decimation: asciilifeform: and fearing the ai holocaust

04:33:16 thestringpuller: cazalla: it's not with a 3rd party

04:33:29 cazalla: thestringpuller, so they're taking it direct?

04:33:30 undata: decimation: veering into woo-woo territory, but in meditation I've often gotten the sense that the sense of "myself" in my head is a very small chunk of what I am

04:33:47 undata: that there are drives, goals, whole projects somewhere lower-level that I'm barely conscious of

04:34:03 thestringpuller: cazalla: lemme see. i'll try to order something after I finish this thing for work.

04:34:07 cazalla: thestringpuller, thanks, no xbox or microsoft account here

04:34:14 asciilifeform: pen + paper << i end up doing a great bit of work with pen and paper, even though ink is not executable and my hands are in agony after ten minutes - simply because it works in places and positions where no computer

04:35:04 thestringpuller: hopefully I don't by xbox live or something in the process :P

04:35:16 decimation: undata: certainly if one accepts that God is external, one would have to consider what which comes from Him and that which does not.

04:35:27 cazalla: actually, misses has a hotmail, i'll go harass her

04:35:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13401 @ 0.00065008 = 8.7117 BTC [-] {2}

04:36:39 asciilifeform: undata, ben_vulpes: aside from the titanic effort involved in using mac for serious work, that machine is far too large and heavy for the kind of bed computing contemplated earlier.

04:37:27 undata: decimation: I consider "god" a barely scrutable term

04:37:47 undata: if things bigger than skulls are conscious, I wouldn't be qualified to comment on them

04:38:07 asciilifeform: undata: the sense of "myself" in my head is a very small chunk << see the crackpot work 'society of mind' by marvin minsky.

04:38:13 asciilifeform: it was largely about this.

04:39:08 undata: asciilifeform: I'm more referring to things like, say you notice in the workplace that you have been for the last year in direct competition with another worker

04:39:36 undata: it seems the mind has plenty of processes running on autopilot which can be mindfully observed, but often aren't

04:40:09 asciilifeform: book was about this.

04:40:09 undata: asciilifeform: this sounds like the thing dennett has said about "pandemonium"

04:40:36 thestringpuller: cazalla: can I write up the scoop?

04:40:39 thestringpuller: mr. editor sir!

04:41:10 undata: asciilifeform: you've never found yourself doing things you never consciously chose to do?

04:41:25 undata: surely there are canonical examples of that happening with the opposite sex

04:43:29 cazalla: thestringpuller, sure, i was planning to do so but i checked out my missus account and there is no bitcoin option, maybe not for aus yet

04:44:13 cazalla: i'm not that familiar with it, does this let you buy credits or something thestringpuller ?

04:44:49 cazalla: seems that is for xbox credit whatever the fuck that is

04:45:14 undata: asciilifeform: pretty sure this is the experiment I'm thinking of 40hz.net/david_2011.pdf

04:48:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.13978769 = 1.8172 BTC [+] {2}

04:49:41 undata: asciilifeform: the idea is that people can be shown to have made a decision before they are capable of reporting that decision to anyone

04:50:56 undata: this mental conversation I have about "yes, pick up the cup and have a sip" happens substantially later than the action to do so is already in motion

04:53:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 22804 @ 0.0012 = 27.3648 BTC

04:53:24 mats: ;;ticker

04:53:25 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 349.5, Best ask: 351.43, Bid-ask spread: 1.93000, Last trade: 349.49, 24 hour volume: 10158.72216659, 24 hour low: 339.8, 24 hour high: 353.74, 24 hour vwap: 0

04:58:29 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> usg has more-or-less 'sat' upon the idle rich << the 'idle' (what does this mean? presumably, not occupied with directing a megacorp?) rich still exist. they spend on coke and orbital flights with hookers, not rebuilding of computing. << The conversion of cocaine from productivity aide to party favor has probably been one of the msot damaging transitions of this last hundred years

05:00:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00063894 = 9.7438 BTC [-]

05:02:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.14 = 3.5 BTC [+] {2}

05:05:17 BingoBoingo: !up MacroHard

05:05:48 MacroHard: ᕦ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕤ

05:07:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00064145 = 7.1522 BTC [+]

05:08:20 asciilifeform: undata: famous experiment.

05:09:14 asciilifeform: brings to mind whitehead's:

05:09:17 asciilifeform: 'It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and by eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate the habit of thinking of what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them. Operations of thought are like cavalry charges in a battle ? they are strictly limited

05:09:17 asciilifeform: in number, they require fresh horses, and must only be made at decisive moments.'

05:11:27 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: idle rich << point was, there are still plenty of arbitrarily rich and arbitrarily idle folks. they simply happen to be retarded. afaik - 100% of them, rather than 99 or whatever the historic norm was.

05:12:26 asciilifeform: or not 100, but the epsilon remnant are 'idle' in the economic sense but fighting guerilla war of one kind or another and can't really afford cultural largesse

05:12:41 thestringpuller: Ryan X. Charles: "I discovered bitcoin on May 13, 2011 and never recovered. After developing a reputation as the bitcoin guy at the physics department, I eventually quit my physics PhD program and went full-time bitcoin. I worked for the best bitcoin company in the world, BitPay"

05:12:53 thestringpuller: he goes on to say: " If I had written bitcoin, it would have been in javascript."

05:13:02 thestringpuller: Like what the actual fuck?

05:13:03 asciilifeform: trololol

05:13:05 thestringpuller: You can't make this shit up.

05:13:20 thestringpuller: reddit's cyrptocurrency "engineer"

05:13:24 thestringpuller: if you can even call that engineering

05:13:42 thestringpuller: from: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ox7vi/bitcoin_technology_will_ultimately_become/

05:13:42 undata: underabundance of shame these days

05:13:51 undata: where is the embarassment

05:14:20 thestringpuller: d00d and people are eating it up!!!!

05:14:43 thestringpuller: "I wish Bitcoin was written in JS, I'd be able to understand it a bit better."

05:14:56 asciilifeform: it is a profound tragedy that these 'people' ever saw a computer.

05:15:07 asciilifeform: should not have had access to any technology more complex than pitchfork.

05:15:12 undata: "Javascript is actually in demand now for good reason. Node.js is a powerful tool for specific applications and you no longer need to know 2 languages if you go the full JS stack." << I call this single-step reasoning. It's everywhere.

05:16:04 asciilifeform: !s deskilling

05:16:05 assbot: 2 results for 'deskilling' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=deskilling

05:16:08 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: should not have had access to any technology more complex than pitchfork. << but isn't this how ignorant mobs form? as much as I like a pitchfork mob....

05:16:22 asciilifeform: point is, they should be breaking their backs for their daily bread.

05:16:24 asciilifeform: literally.

05:16:48 undata: I'd accept that given some decent mechanism for outliers to escape that circumstance.

05:16:59 asciilifeform: escapees - escape.

05:17:16 asciilifeform: even from russian prison. even from modern usa.

05:17:47 thestringpuller: well at least you can bribe the guards in a russian prison

05:17:53 thestringpuller: they seem more "reasonable"

05:18:06 asciilifeform: newton did not have to bribe any guards to escape from agriculture.

05:18:24 asciilifeform: but today he would probably be inextricably imprisoned in reddit or, worse, anglo academe.

05:18:47 thestringpuller: imprisoned in reddit how?

05:18:51 thestringpuller: you make it sound like Yishan Wong would kidnap him.

05:19:06 asciilifeform: psychological prison.

05:19:17 asciilifeform: the nearly escape-proof kind.

05:19:19 undata: don't know... my mother was single raising me for part of my early childhood

05:19:30 undata: sounds like a person headed for serfdom under this scenario

05:19:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20257 @ 0.00064145 = 12.9939 BTC [+]

05:20:36 thestringpuller: well someone who is going to exclaim nonsense about JS being useful to "understand code" should be stuffed in the bowels of some buildings as a serf

05:20:54 undata: being poor is enough

05:21:11 asciilifeform: other thing is, these people only exist as merely one symptom of a long series of catastrophes

05:22:02 asciilifeform: what is to be done with them is a question not for you and i, but, in all likelihood, for the chinese ministry of biodiesel

05:22:29 thestringpuller: this is why chinese people send their children to america

05:22:51 thestringpuller: "you won't make it in china, you too dumb, we send you to american high school come back as adult, bye bye"

05:22:51 asciilifeform: why did british nobles send their children to india?

05:23:52 thestringpuller: for meritwashing I presume?

05:24:16 asciilifeform: cheap fellatio, practice at management, breathing room

05:24:29 asciilifeform: well-documented.

05:24:53 thestringpuller: interesting.

05:25:00 thestringpuller: American Schools are easier to pass through for children of stricter education systems.

05:25:09 asciilifeform: (see also orwell's essay re: how the telegraph was the ultimate doom of british empire)

05:25:24 thestringpuller: The ones that brand you a fuck-up if you don't pass "the entrance exam" of which you only have on opportunity to pass.

05:25:41 undata: this serfdom thing doesn't sound any better than what the man behind the curtain has produced in the garden-variety american derp

05:26:06 asciilifeform: difference is that the agricultural serf is not a burden upon his betters.

05:26:17 undata: ah, that's the aim

05:26:34 asciilifeform: i will add that agricultural slavery is an optimistic scenario for the folks in question.

05:26:34 thestringpuller: Also American Derp is not hardworking, or truly values hardwork. The serf likely does (imo at least).

05:27:01 thestringpuller: They glorify antics from sitcoms such as "Workaholics" finding ways to be lazy but still get by.

05:27:04 asciilifeform: the more realistic fate is butugychag.

05:27:20 thestringpuller: What is that term, "Manboy/Manchild"?

05:27:35 asciilifeform: !s butugychag

05:27:36 assbot: 8 results for 'butugychag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=butugychag

05:27:42 undata: thestringpuller: it's the experience of starting with nothing and struggling ahead that makes an adult

05:27:56 asciilifeform: soviet prison camp where uranium was mined.

05:27:56 undata: so, poverty, but not serfdom

05:27:58 asciilifeform: typical life expectancy: 3 mo.

05:28:32 thestringpuller: undata: but this isn't the only factor. unimpoverished children can still amount to hardworking individuals, just with different contexts.

05:28:57 thestringpuller: sure you don't sling crack to get lunch money, but you hustle in other scenarios

05:29:21 undata: thestringpuller: I'd think it wise to at least demo the poor life for them

05:29:42 thestringpuller: i.e. prince and the pauper?

05:29:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23250 @ 0.00064145 = 14.9137 BTC [+]

05:29:58 thestringpuller: or rather undercover billionaire?

05:30:12 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: wow bleak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butugichag#In_literature

05:30:59 thestringpuller: brutal: "Witnesses of the camp state that the camp took the life of some 380,000 people in the 10 years of its existence. Most notable about the camp is the fact that uranium mining was conducted here manually without any protective gear whatsoever. The average miner's life span lasted only months here"

05:31:17 asciilifeform: this is the correct use for the 'i dun wanna learn a second programming language' folks.

05:31:21 undata: thestringpuller: the pattern in my family (at least for the first male kid) has been to impress upon them the value and necessity of hard work, and then to drop them into the world to fend for themselves at the appropriate time

05:31:47 asciilifeform: not for the crime of being dull, but for militant stupidity and the active poisoning of all that was ever good and bright.

05:32:40 thestringpuller: ^- exactly!

05:33:01 thestringpuller: some derps actively take away from the well being of others

05:33:08 thestringpuller: almost like dropping the IQ of their peers by merely existing

05:33:15 asciilifeform: extermination is far too kind a fate for them.

05:33:17 asciilifeform: !s zoolag

05:33:18 assbot: 8 results for 'zoolag' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zoolag

05:33:41 undata: I can't think of an instance in history where blunt instruments such as these were wielded effectively.

05:34:02 asciilifeform: nothing 'in history' ever really happens 'effectively'

05:34:12 asciilifeform: or with sharp instruments.

05:34:40 ben_vulpes: what is there to explain about turbulence?!

05:34:47 thestringpuller: XD

05:34:48 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3JZB63J.txt )

05:34:48 asciilifeform: !b 1

05:34:49 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2WWX2W3.txt )

05:34:49 asciilifeform: !b 3

05:35:22 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> usg has more-or-less 'sat' upon the idle rich << the 'idle' (what does this mean? << the early modern period had ample supply of this particular type. literally, idle.

05:35:33 ben_vulpes: at some scales and without some simplifying assumptions you just need a universe to model a universe!

05:35:38 ben_vulpes: what is so damn hard to grasp about this

05:36:15 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846621

05:36:15 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'

05:36:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in that spirit, e.g., a physicist -never- gets to utter the phrase 'you need a universe to model this'

05:37:05 asciilifeform: when he utters it, we are to understand that he is ready for the biodiesel retirement pot

05:37:12 mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> You can't make this shit up. << word.

05:37:40 mircea_popescu: but at least the derp dept moved from "blockchain technology" to "bitcoin technology".

05:37:48 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: but you do, dammit

05:38:16 ben_vulpes: and what about that portland lawyer whose fingerprints appeared miraculously at the scene?!

05:38:20 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it doesn't even matter if you do. if you're bothering to think about the subject, your job is to assume that the job is doable and try - forever

05:38:23 *: mircea_popescu waves at all the idiots reading here, imagining that http://fraudsters.com/2011/romanul-si-marea/ was never written, and one can just steal the octopus' suckers to put onhis own fingers.

05:38:24 assbot: Romanul si marea pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1seSNh9 )

05:39:07 mircea_popescu: undata> "Javascript is actually in demand now for good reason. << "we are stupid but don't like to admit it" being the reason.

05:39:28 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that's one hell of an assumption, that the task is doable.

05:39:33 *: undata protests at where that quote was clipped!

05:39:37 undata: a quote of a quote I swear

05:39:41 ben_vulpes: "build me a space elevator from materials available today."

05:39:48 mircea_popescu: lol

05:40:08 mircea_popescu: im pretty sure its quoteness carries.

05:40:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: understand correctly. actual 'impossibility proofs' - are valuable. (consider laws of thermodynamics; or, more fundamentally, mathematical concepts - e.g., irrationality of sqrt(2))

05:41:10 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but anything which merely appears impossibly difficult, rather than provable waste of time, is a matter for folks who think it worth trying

05:41:30 ben_vulpes: those of us who think it not, kindly invited to pleb elsewhere i gather.

05:41:43 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, attempt above proof

05:41:48 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "we are stupid but don't like to admit it" << this is good critera for sending derps off to asciilifeform derper's retirement camp.

05:41:59 ben_vulpes: i am but a mere engineer.

05:42:10 ben_vulpes: and a poor one at that.

05:42:10 mircea_popescu: i dunno why all this geographic arrangement. a bitcoin island, a derp camp...

05:42:19 mircea_popescu: can't they just stick to reddit, wikipedia et all ?

05:42:19 asciilifeform: retirement pot.

05:43:35 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> this is the correct use for the 'i dun wanna learn a second programming language' folks. << liek the ppl that want everything to be lisp ? :D

05:43:36 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the cancer must be excised and disposed. Although it may be in remission...

05:43:48 asciilifeform: !s lisp brick

05:43:49 assbot: 1 results for 'lisp brick' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lisp+brick

05:44:42 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller eh let it excise itself. why should i do the work for people i don't even like.

05:44:53 mircea_popescu: beating the women i love is more work than i feel like as it is.

05:46:14 ben_vulpes: he loves!

05:46:14 ben_vulpes: my world is shaken

05:46:16 mircea_popescu: ...

05:46:24 mircea_popescu: srsly ?! this is somehow a surprise !?

05:46:57 ben_vulpes: you're supposed to be a moster.

05:47:04 ben_vulpes: an unfeeling, joy-crushing monster.

05:47:30 mircea_popescu: oh really ?

05:47:32 thestringpuller: MP doesn't like it when people have fun.

05:47:40 thestringpuller: He is a grumpy old man!

05:47:48 ben_vulpes: write everything in php!

05:47:51 asciilifeform: the concept of joyous, exuberant monster being too terrifying for the retirement pot candidates, naturally

05:47:57 mircea_popescu: sucks to be me i guess.

05:48:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12251 @ 0.00066399 = 8.1345 BTC [+] {2}

05:48:17 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am struck by thoughts of jabba

05:48:25 asciilifeform: mr mold's fnargl.

05:48:28 undata: ho ho ho

05:48:32 asciilifeform: and his thousand-year fnarg.

05:48:45 asciilifeform: ;;google thousand year fnarg

05:48:46 gribble: Unruled: 06/01/2008 - 07/01/2008: http://unruled.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html; Unqualified Reservations: May 2007: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html; Doctor Who (series 5) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_5)

05:49:17 mircea_popescu: this just took a turn for the weird - erryone discussing me in terms im unfamiliar with

05:49:17 mircea_popescu: STAHP

05:49:29 ben_vulpes: herr mircea cannot handle

05:49:49 ben_vulpes: bring in the social justice police, this society is out of hand

05:50:18 thestringpuller: troll level: professional

05:51:19 mircea_popescu: + i accidentally sent asciilifeform's line about 2nd code and pots to some chick i'm talking with on the side. she's new and was just probing as to what's in principle required of new chicks.

05:51:21 mircea_popescu: silence fell upon that land.

05:51:34 *: asciilifeform falls down with l0l

05:51:43 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/39W8HEC.txt )

05:51:43 BingoBoingo: !b 4

06:25:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12499 @ 0.00068937 = 8.6164 BTC [+]

06:50:34 fluffypony: ben_vulpes: monetas?

06:53:23 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Your monero thing

06:53:31 fluffypony: oh, yes

06:53:33 mats: ;;ticker

06:53:34 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Expln in deets pls.

06:53:34 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 357.59, Best ask: 357.6, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 357.6, 24 hour volume: 13375.89528924, 24 hour low: 339.8, 24 hour high: 363.99, 24 hour vwap: 0

06:54:21 fluffypony: sure, it's a cryptocurrency, not based on the Bitcoin source, no GUI at present

06:54:22 fluffypony: transactions are cryptographically untraceable and unlinkable

06:55:00 fluffypony: "mixing" is done on inputs for a tx only, based on denominations of ^10, and inputs are mixed with previously unspent inputs

06:55:22 fluffypony: via ring signatures (group signatures)

06:55:41 fluffypony: at the moment no minimum mixin level is enforced, so ostensibly an output in the utxoset can actually be spent at some point with a mixin of 0, and thus is *actually* spent

06:55:45 BingoBoingo: Eh, what's the differences. The interesting stuff? I'm fighting a generic winter illness and slowly realizing a bottle of cold medicine is supposed to contain multiple doses.

06:56:08 fluffypony: it depends on what your interest is

06:56:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4460 @ 0.0012 = 5.352 BTC {2}

06:56:24 fluffypony: if you're interested in the cryptography of it

06:56:29 fluffypony: or the software architecture we're building out

06:56:32 fluffypony: or whatever

06:56:39 BingoBoingo: What's tortilla's interest?

06:57:25 fluffypony: he's one of my fellow core team members

06:57:46 fluffypony: so his interest is intrinsic and complete :)

06:58:41 BingoBoingo: Oh that's right, you saw the castle

06:59:12 fluffypony: that was before Risto had any interest in Monero

06:59:27 BingoBoingo: I know

06:59:53 BingoBoingo: I just like the idea of castles, like mudkips

06:59:58 fluffypony: lol

07:02:00 BingoBoingo: I mean castles are basically the motorola 68k of fortifications

07:02:29 fluffypony: well anyway, the cryptography interests me most of all, and there's some cool stuff we're doing

07:02:30 fluffypony: and some nice research on that side of things: https://lab.monero.cc

07:02:31 assbot: Monero Research Lab - Protecting Your Privacy's Future ... ( http://bit.ly/1GfK5Si )

07:03:00 mircea_popescu: fluffypony so can one buy it ?

07:03:10 fluffypony: on that note, breakfast time, bbiab

07:03:16 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yes

07:03:30 fluffypony: poloniex has the highest volume

07:03:38 mircea_popescu: what % of total monetarymass does 1 btc buy one ?

07:04:11 fluffypony: of the current number of coins?

07:04:15 fluffypony: oh you said total

07:04:45 fluffypony: we have infinite tail emission, the block reward value of which hasn't been set as yet

07:04:48 fluffypony: so there isn't a total

07:04:54 mircea_popescu: ah

07:05:15 mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/9p0U3vVe << that poloniex thing looks trustworthy as all fuck o.O

07:05:16 assbot: AnnouncementsSTR deposits and withdrawals are down and will resume when maintena - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GfKww2 )

07:05:32 mircea_popescu: did they just lose their wallets 3x or something ?

07:05:56 BingoBoingo: Poloniex I always assumed was polonium

07:06:54 mircea_popescu: fluffypony so from a purely business pov, why would i give this thing a 2nd thought ? what exactly can my 1 btc buy me and how ?

07:07:34 fluffypony: well the current price is 0.00109 to the BTC, and there are just over 5 mil coins at the moment

07:08:07 fluffypony: from a business PoV it's unlikely to be a good investment unless you're happy to hold it for several years

07:08:13 mircea_popescu: yeah but it can get diluted infinitely.

07:08:35 mircea_popescu: well no, so far i gather the contrary : i'm guaranteed to not see any mid or longm term return

07:08:41 mircea_popescu: it may make sense if i won't hold it overnight sorta thing

07:08:51 fluffypony: yup it's designed to be slightly inflationary not deflationary

07:08:54 BingoBoingo: No point in it unless there's a cap

07:09:09 fluffypony: so any growth comes from utility and not from a deflationary nature

07:09:36 mircea_popescu: but basically any growth won't come to me. so i won't build on it.

07:09:36 mircea_popescu: and why would anyone else then ?

07:09:56 fluffypony: same reason people build on top of i2p or Tor

07:11:20 mircea_popescu: which we don't...

07:11:23 fluffypony: anyway breakfast for real noa, bbiab :)

07:12:01 BingoBoingo: If you are going to darknet what's wrong with old style turtle routing?

07:15:43 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Maybe It's the robitussin, but without a hard cap on supply how do we break the "new" world

07:19:05 mircea_popescu: fluffypony understand what i'm saying here. you seem cogent and together, you're working on this whatever thing i can't readily evaluate. i'd consider putting a few coins into it ; i can even ignore the involvement of whatever known derp on the theory that on the long term sterile works itself out of metal anyway so who cares.

07:19:05 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it gotta somehow make business sense. and the problem is, if it doesn't make it for me it doesn't make it in general, because what exact particular assumptions got baked in ? nothing much. if there isn't a good answer to "so what's my btc buy me" other than handwave, there's probably no better answer to "what's your time buy you" other than, whatever, "playing a mmorpg".

07:19:53 mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with that, i just spent a coupla hours derping in eulora myself. jus as long as it's not coming as a surprise later.

07:22:57 mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at crazy shit ranch : "I am a twenty-year old sub living with my dom in Sask in a 24/7 D/s relationship. For the past two years I have been training as a sub and saving money for school. In the summer I will be relocating to Toronto for college in the fall. My Sir will find a Dom for me there with the hopes of finding me someone to stay with while I study. In exchange I will serve him as his slave for

07:22:58 mircea_popescu: the years I spend in Toronto."

07:23:23 mircea_popescu: canadian govt srsly has to do some liquidity injections o.O

07:26:56 BingoBoingo: I think pete_dushenski is out lobbyist up there

07:27:05 adlai: mircea_popescu: do you seriously think that selling "a few coins" into an altcoin will buy you more than a handwave?

07:28:04 mircea_popescu: i dun think i understand what you're asking here.

07:28:06 adlai: treating it as a whalerpg where you take turns playing bull and bear is another story

07:29:13 adlai: i'm just being scoffy at the prospect that an altcoin offers tangible benefits beyond, say, speculating on the coin's value without actually holding any

07:29:44 mircea_popescu: well, if your view is correct then all altcoins are essentialy the logo.

07:29:57 mircea_popescu: i don't think he'd agree.

07:30:45 adlai: for a coin to offer more than just a speculation game, it needs to have some chance of outperforming btc

07:31:14 mircea_popescu: right.

07:31:42 adlai: for example, this monero thing... let's say the tech is remarkably successful, and as this becomes evident, the value grows TENFOLD

07:31:59 adlai: so we now have a 10mil market cap

07:32:07 adlai: and the amazing tech gets copied by btc

07:32:07 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

07:33:16 adlai: and then the guys who bagheld xmr through the great bear market of 2014 all take a group dump on the people who bought non-scarce goods

07:35:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34729 @ 0.00068972 = 23.9533 BTC [+] {2}

07:36:37 adlai: anybody trading on mpex want to try scalpl?

07:36:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7292 @ 0.00070292 = 5.1257 BTC [+]

07:37:04 *: adlai is curious how it'd fare on s.mpoe

07:37:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35320 @ 0.00070426 = 24.8745 BTC [+] {2}

07:38:34 adlai: ok that's enough. next time i bring up scalpl not in response to somebody else, please !down me

07:38:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4238 @ 0.00070793 = 3.0002 BTC [+]

07:39:41 mircea_popescu: adlai that wasn't the most organised argument i ever read :p

07:40:07 adlai: which one, the one against long-term investments in altcoins?

07:40:28 adlai: it's hard to organize an argument against nobody. kinda like planning an invasion without a map.

07:41:15 mircea_popescu: i dun think "invesing in altcoin" generally was being contemplated.

07:41:45 *: adlai must've misunderstood http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951036

07:41:45 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2014 07:19:05; mircea_popescu: fluffypony understand what i'm saying here. you seem cogent and together, you're working on this whatever thing i can't readily evaluate. i'd consider putting a few coins into it ; i can even ignore the involvement of whatever known derp on the theory that on the long term sterile works itself out of metal anyway so who cares.

07:42:55 adlai: if i were to specifically attack that, i'd start from the assumption that a cogent and together person necessarily occupies their time in an activity which lends itself to monetary investment

07:43:27 adlai: plenty of cogent and together people dedicate their time to charity, but it's not a terribly rewarding investment

07:44:24 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot fluffypony

07:44:25 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user fluffypony: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 8 via 8 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=fluffypony | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=fluffypony | Rated since: Sat Apr 6 08:20:32 2013

07:44:30 mircea_popescu: guy's been around for a while wut.

07:45:47 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: could the airgap concept of the cardano be applied to storage?

07:46:00 thestringpuller: i know that's somewhat random...

07:46:15 mircea_popescu: why not ?

07:48:21 thestringpuller: i was thinking of the scenario of having to absolutely read an encrypted memo but only have a potentially compromised/malicious system available

07:49:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9964 @ 0.00072082 = 7.1823 BTC [+]

07:49:19 BingoBoingo: If a system is compromised it's compromised

07:51:18 mircea_popescu: seems airgap means you're not touching some other system neh.

07:51:38 thestringpuller: or in the sense it is non-trivial to remove data from the device

07:51:51 thestringpuller: more in the sense*

07:52:38 mircea_popescu: how did the memo end up in there then.

07:57:07 thestringpuller: so lets say the system in use is not a secure viewer, but a device is available (some mobile thingy of some sort), that is a secure viewer, but is unable to do heavy lifting. just reads from drive and displays it. so the use case I imagine is someone is sent important "please read now" encrypted memo to some dude who is boarding a flight. he uses one of the surely compromised internet cafe computers and his hand caradno to decr

07:58:06 mircea_popescu: it'd decript somethinmg you got off a pastebin for you, but obviously it can't guarantee the computer you're on won't read your memo too

07:58:13 mircea_popescu: just that it won't be able to steal your keys

07:58:45 thestringpuller: exactly, so I was envisioning a device that can i/o securely from output of cardano

07:58:55 thestringpuller: in the way key on cardano is nontrivial to remove

07:59:09 thestringpuller: same with data on this device that stores output from decryption

07:59:46 mircea_popescu: i dun see it.

08:00:34 BingoBoingo: I think you two are talking about different devices

08:00:49 thestringpuller: well i guess I'm thinking of combining cardano with 2nd device

08:01:00 thestringpuller: place to store output

08:01:17 thestringpuller: for situations arising "in the field"

08:02:38 mircea_popescu: the storing isnot the problem. how'd you read it ?

08:02:56 punkman: thestringpuller wants a screen on the cardano

08:03:07 thestringpuller: That could be a solution!

08:03:17 thestringpuller: punkman has the right idea!

08:03:19 punkman: or a tiny laptop thingy

08:03:30 undata: there are many simple text-output LCDs

08:03:52 undata: however anything like that becomes another point to siphon data off the thing if you derp using it

08:04:32 mircea_popescu: real programmers just sense the bits.

08:04:32 mircea_popescu: screens are for weaklings!

08:04:43 thestringpuller: that's another option have little magnets implanted in finger tips

08:04:51 thestringpuller: cardano has little interface

08:05:06 thestringpuller: why not just have plug directly into skull

08:05:17 punkman: you could make a tactile morse generator

08:05:32 mircea_popescu: or a dildo.

08:05:32 mircea_popescu: feel the morse.

08:12:58 punkman: mircea_popescu: punkman no notary still ? << good night's sleep and not busy today, shall make progress

08:13:53 mircea_popescu: aite.

08:13:54 punkman: mircea_popescu: punkman: yeah and maybe indian/chinese guy watered field with sewage << actually good for it. << sewage is good for tea?

08:15:24 mircea_popescu: for the field.

08:15:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18362 @ 0.00071765 = 13.1775 BTC [-]

08:19:05 punkman: saw this recently, about making fertilizer from NY sewage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV9x79_WYbk

08:19:06 assbot: You Don't Know Shit: VICE Reports (Full Length) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1sfbfWT )

08:19:27 punkman: not sure I'd want my tomatos fed on human shit

08:21:00 mircea_popescu: what do you think the earth is if not hardpacked, ancient sewage.

08:23:02 BingoBoingo: punkman: Fine baby the tomatoes, but what about the sweet corn

08:23:19 punkman: I mean humanure is fine, if you are in the wot

08:23:28 mircea_popescu: hahaha

08:23:30 punkman: but I don't want NY sewage

08:23:33 mircea_popescu: humanure, where humint goes to die.

08:23:35 BingoBoingo: humanure isn't a thing

08:23:50 BingoBoingo: It's night soil and it grows rice.

08:24:03 BingoBoingo: Ship it to the deep south.

08:24:15 BingoBoingo: Isn't that what the civil war was over?

08:29:40 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/12/microsoft-xbox-and-mobile-marketplace-now-accepts-bitcoin/

08:38:44 BingoBoingo: !up Curious_George

08:38:50 BingoBoingo: Hello Curious_George

08:39:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6337 @ 0.00068143 = 4.3182 BTC [-]

08:42:50 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

08:42:51 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 361.04, Best ask: 362.14, Bid-ask spread: 1.10000, Last trade: 361.04, 24 hour volume: 14786.74135077, 24 hour low: 339.8, 24 hour high: 364.43, 24 hour vwap: 0

08:45:53 BingoBoingo: Is the robitussin bottle really not supposed to be a single serving?

08:46:46 mircea_popescu: lol

08:47:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1025 @ 0.00120505 = 1.2352 BTC [-] {2}

08:48:46 BingoBoingo: Fucking CYP2D6 again

08:53:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18221 @ 0.00065957 = 12.018 BTC [-]

09:03:51 fluffypony: adlai: the problem is that the "amazing tech" can't easily be copied by BTC - although I'd agree fully on that being applicable to altcoins based off of the Bitcoin codebase. the problem isn't so much the code, it's that the stealth addresses + ring signatures are such a radical departure that Bitcoin would (obviously) have to hardfork to an address format that is completely different to their current one (since it requires 2x 256-bit

09:03:51 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

09:03:51 fluffypony: pubkeys) thus breaking compatibility with every existing application, and then enforce the standard for some time before the utxoset is sufficiently large to allow for a measurable level of privacy (see MRL-0001 on lab.monero.cc as to why this is true)

09:04:44 fluffypony: to get back to the previous convo, though - it isn't an "investment", nor has it been pitched as such

09:04:55 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i dun think his idea is directly applicable (stolen by btc), but nevertheless, someone with a better business value proposition can just fork your code.

09:05:42 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that's like saying someone with a better business value proposition can just fork BTC

09:05:50 fluffypony: the network effect of BTC works against that

09:06:06 mircea_popescu: but only for btc.

09:06:10 fluffypony: maybe it's best to think of Monero as something like Freicoin - an experiment in creating something usable and useful

09:06:32 fluffypony: and if it fails it doesn't matter, we're not trying to build a business, we're advancing technology

09:06:32 mircea_popescu: so you are in the endsaying this is more of a hobby than serious.

09:06:35 mircea_popescu: right.

09:07:33 adlai: fluffypony: blockstream is a for-profit company in order to steal your lunch

09:07:48 mircea_popescu: adlai i doubt it'd be his lunch.

09:08:05 adlai: it's a metaphor :)

09:08:48 mircea_popescu: guy pretty much said hedun expect to eat off it.

09:08:52 fluffypony: yeah

09:08:53 fluffypony: lol

09:09:24 adlai: i don't mean it in that sense, i mean that their goal is to make innovations in other chains accessible to the bitcoin asset

09:09:35 fluffypony: yes

09:09:41 adlai: and the "your" referred to all these projects, not just fluffypony

09:09:42 mircea_popescu: innovation is nonblocking.

09:09:51 fluffypony: but that also means that the altcoin is indelibly linked to Bitcoin's value

09:10:03 fluffypony: the economic hinge makes sidechaining unpalatable for us

09:10:15 fluffypony: but I do applaud the effort if it'll make shit like Jackpotcoin irrelevant

09:10:20 mircea_popescu: fluffypony all future coin, of any type, and more generally all future human industry of all types is indelibly linked to bitcoin

09:10:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00067111 = 12.2478 BTC [+] {2}

09:10:36 mircea_popescu: this is a fact and it's not going away except in fiction.

09:10:50 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I agree, but what I mean is that a sidechain can't have a direct USD market, for instance, it will always have to go via Bitcoin

09:11:07 mircea_popescu: perhaps. then again this may be a rather short term concern you see.

09:12:02 fluffypony: most altcoins are scams anyway

09:12:10 fluffypony: either outrightly or through blind ignorance

09:12:38 mircea_popescu: right.

09:14:40 fluffypony: oh cute, Bryce Weenie blocked me on Twitter

09:15:12 fluffypony: I guess he didn't like being called idiotic: https://twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/542109944901009408

09:15:13 assbot: Those derps… RT /BryceWeiner: /blockchain.info published private keys. http://t.co/B6tmulgmyY

09:15:42 mircea_popescu: trying to recall who that is.

09:16:19 fluffypony: he's the guy that keeps getting "interviewed" by Seaman

09:16:42 mircea_popescu: oh i recall the derp. i think i told him off back when i was on twitter.

09:16:47 fluffypony: yeah, he keeps promoting shitcoins like Nautiluscoin

09:17:04 fluffypony: the one with the "stabilization fund"

09:17:11 fluffypony: which clearly didn't stabilise anything

09:18:44 mircea_popescu: well, neither did the various stabilisation funds irl lol.

09:19:27 fluffypony: lol

09:19:45 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: It is alright. The coinfire account on twitter blocked both myself and cazalla that one time we made a blog even though... Eventually we may want to hire their meat.

09:21:33 fluffypony: heh

09:22:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, /me waits patiently for fluffypony to be done with playing and start srs bzns.

09:23:07 fluffypony: lol

09:23:20 fluffypony: I've got stuff I'm building on the business side

09:23:31 *: BingoBoingo waits for the scorpions to shrink again, fuck you robitussin cold and flu

09:23:49 fluffypony: when I have something cool to show I will :)

09:25:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00064969 = 19.1659 BTC [-] {3}

09:25:55 mircea_popescu: now /me waits patiently for the home videos of fluffyfamily.

09:26:52 fluffypony: ooh la la

09:28:08 punkman: fluffypony: what happened to that prospectus

09:28:25 fluffypony: punkman: which one?

09:28:54 punkman: vaguely remember one when you first joined

09:29:07 fluffypony: oh yes - I decided to fund it myself

09:29:55 fluffypony: had a bit of a false start on one of the projects, shitty resources, so that's just picked up again as of a few weeks ago

09:30:10 punkman: what was it about?

09:30:27 fluffypony: that particular one is a payment processor

09:31:29 fluffypony: omg it's rithm everyone hide

09:33:12 BingoBoingo: !up rithm

09:33:24 BingoBoingo: rithm: Why does the fluffy mare fear you?

09:33:31 fluffypony: rithm: when are you changing back to jcpham?

09:34:15 mircea_popescu: lol fluffymare

09:34:29 fluffypony: lol

09:37:02 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: How can we know you aren't the blond wife? Other than if that was the OH SHIT HUGE SPIDER, case certain people would be much more attentive to your equine needs

09:38:37 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: because I'm in a bunch of videos under this nom de plume?

09:39:09 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Like I am going to totally fire up the AIDS computer to follow every lead

09:39:21 fluffypony: heh

09:39:28 mircea_popescu: lol HE'S REALLY MPOE-PR!11

09:39:34 fluffypony: lol

09:39:36 *: BingoBoingo watches the latest episode of Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen because better than Robitussin

09:39:41 fluffypony: hanbot is going to be pissed!

09:39:51 BingoBoingo: Or relieved

09:41:18 BingoBoingo: Carrying those tits can't come with zero cost

09:46:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00063865 = 7.3445 BTC [-]

09:51:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1500 @ 0.00123243 = 1.8486 BTC [+] {7}

09:57:01 mircea_popescu: !up Flyer33

10:02:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38072 @ 0.00063865 = 24.3147 BTC [-] {2}

10:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00067317 = 9.5254 BTC [+] {2}

11:05:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22674 @ 0.00067687 = 15.3474 BTC [+]

11:34:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1187 @ 0.00124299 = 1.4754 BTC [+]

11:35:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1220 @ 0.0012 = 1.464 BTC

11:54:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.0006703 = 14.6461 BTC [-] {2}

12:09:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00067687 = 16.5833 BTC [+]

12:16:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00067831 = 7.5632 BTC [+] {2}

12:23:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00065548 = 2.5891 BTC [-]

12:31:34 nubbins`: hi

12:31:38 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> but the principle remains. "small integers" are not in fact either small or integers but for our perspective. <<<< o.O

12:31:42 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> they're just numbers, like any other numbers, exactly so. <<< o.0

12:31:54 nubbins`: <+BingoBoingo> The fuckers, part of his pre-trial release conditions was a prohibition on alcohol, 21st amendment yo! <<< i have a friend prohibited from imbibing for 4 years as part of the punishment for a drug offense

12:33:02 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Do you have the same romantic attachment to 7.65 that I do. It is bond caliber

12:34:57 nubbins`: i remain wholly emotionally unaffected by rationals

12:36:30 nubbins`: 153/20 is no exception!

12:37:46 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: cold water is not in fact cold nor water but from our perspective, &c

12:38:00 nubbins`: way to argue the null case ;p

12:41:38 BingoBoingo: I am in no fair way other than tripping balls right now. How do robitussin bottles not exist as single serving containgers

12:42:20 BingoBoingo: I mean I punched a spider the size of my head ad the mess was smaller than my knuckle

12:45:07 nubbins`: better put this on

12:45:17 nubbins`: http://patrickcanning.bandcamp.com/album/lets-celebrate-with-blood

12:45:19 assbot: Let's Celebrate With Blood | Patrick Canning ... ( http://bit.ly/1GgJOyG )

12:46:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00065067 = 6.832 BTC [-]

12:50:01 *: BingoBoingo kind of regrets promising to tutor his cousin's kids in comp sci

12:52:14 nubbins`: brutal deal

12:57:55 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: They already stole a fucking car

13:00:50 nubbins`: hied your weed

13:04:26 BingoBoingo: I don't have any. Have you not read the sad saga of Normal man???

13:04:43 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/a-normal-man-sentenced-to-48-months-prison/

13:04:44 assbot: A Normal Man Sentenced To 48 Months Prison | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1IExQ3Q )

13:06:00 BingoBoingo: A followup is happening... once I start punching spider sized spiders in the garage during gicarettes and not cornish game hen sized spiders

13:06:30 BingoBoingo: Spiders always shrink on the knuckles

13:06:46 BingoBoingo: No matter what you dose your flu with

13:07:01 BingoBoingo: They always shrink there

13:07:29 mats: lol...

13:10:21 BingoBoingo: mats: How much do you know about CYP 450???

13:10:40 danielpbarron: heh, i've robotripped a few times

13:11:11 mats: 0

13:11:33 BingoBoingo: I don't get much choice in the matter thanks to my good friend CYP2d6*39*???

13:11:56 BingoBoingo: And yes, *??? is one or several allelles

13:12:45 BingoBoingo: I may need to sand my desk again after this Ill spell thanks to Mr. Fairbairn and Mr. Sykes

13:13:20 *: BingoBoingo is the boss in the worst video game level

13:23:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00063801 = 10.2401 BTC [-] {2}

13:23:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC

13:29:33 mats: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2owj55/welcome_drew_ryan_mike_daniel_joe_dave_david/cmrdn40

13:29:35 assbot: ryancarnated comments on Welcome Drew, Ryan, Mike, Daniel, Joe, Dave, & David!!! ... ( http://bit.ly/1IEEs29 )

13:29:51 mats: 'Javascript is the languge of heaven. It is the right choice for every programming task.'

13:32:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00064571 = 1.2914 BTC [+] {2}

13:33:04 fluffypony: lol

13:43:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00065309 = 7.6085 BTC [+] {2}

14:06:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 13315 @ 0.0012 = 15.978 BTC

14:07:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00063709 = 8.4096 BTC [-]

14:18:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21699 @ 0.00064564 = 14.0097 BTC [+]

14:24:28 RagnarDanneskjol: http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:HGFNh8L1sZ4J:scholar.google.com/+bitcoin&hl=en&scisbd=1&as_sdt=0,5

14:24:29 assbot: Fair Information Sharing for Treasure Hunting ... ( http://bit.ly/1wCtUNQ )

14:33:55 Naphex: mats: reading that quote just gave me eye cancer

14:34:09 fluffypony: I'm sure he's being sarcastic

14:34:14 Naphex: still

14:34:16 Naphex: very damaging

14:34:30 Naphex: my brain still hurts :))

14:36:09 Naphex: fluffypony: i mean, for real Node & co is like Compatiblity HELL

14:36:14 Naphex: run now & never again

14:36:18 fluffypony: lol

14:36:28 Naphex: - please god don't make me recompile node

14:36:29 fluffypony: my favourite is Ubuntu changing the binary name

14:36:45 fluffypony: so now you have to symlink it because half the shit expects "node" and the other half expects "nodejs"

14:36:58 nubbins`: heh

14:37:09 nubbins`: dat renaming

14:37:30 Naphex: not to talk about all the hellish packages in npm

14:37:43 Naphex: that are mixed with outdated c++ module

14:37:58 Naphex: and insane spachetty javascript

14:38:08 nubbins`: sharepoint renamed a bunch of shit between major revisions, but literally just swapped the names around and kept the api calls, function definitions, class names, etc the same

14:39:08 nubbins`: so a Site is now a Site Web and a Web is now a Site, but a Site Web is still Site mySiteWeb = new Site() and a Site is still Web mySite = new Web();

14:39:09 nubbins`: etc

14:39:36 nubbins`: imagine "using" a platform like that

14:39:47 Naphex: https://github.com/bitpay/insight-api/blob/master/lib/TransactionDb.js is this the real life?

14:39:48 assbot: insight-api/TransactionDb.js at master · bitpay/insight-api · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1wCxFD5 )

14:42:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.14 = 1.4 BTC [+]

14:59:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00063709 = 1.2742 BTC [-]

15:00:20 mats: i don't think he's kidding based on his comment history

15:00:54 mats: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2owj55/welcome_drew_ryan_mike_daniel_joe_dave_david/cmrdyb6

15:00:56 assbot: ryancarnated comments on Welcome Drew, Ryan, Mike, Daniel, Joe, Dave, & David!!! ... ( http://bit.ly/1AksCEv )

15:01:21 mats: 'A better way to do physics research is to build a lot of wealth outside of academia, and then fund myself as a scientist. That way I have complete freedom and I'm not facing the crazy competition for government funding. If I can pull it off, that's exactly what I'll do.'

15:04:03 mats: afaik the cost of serious physics research runs well into nine digits

15:09:54 Naphex: mats: "crowdfunding"

15:10:06 Naphex: thats where the plan is at

15:12:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00064564 = 3.4219 BTC [+]

15:12:32 Naphex: you need to read between the lines ^^

15:15:10 nubbins`: hey, he did say "a lot of wealth"

15:15:43 Naphex: plus its reddit

15:39:00 danielpbarron: !up ryanxcharles

15:39:17 ryanxcharles: thx!

15:39:45 danielpbarron: have you read the logs? you're name has come up quite a few times

15:39:59 ryanxcharles: i saw people talked about my love of javascript

15:40:16 ryanxcharles: i don't have time to respond at the moment but i'll come back later

15:41:00 danielpbarron: okie doke

15:45:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00064564 = 11.4924 BTC [+]

15:47:46 fluffypony: ryanxcharles: congrats on having your PR merged :)

15:47:56 ryanxcharles: ha thanks!

15:48:28 fluffypony: also this is a fun conversation, this dude is incorrigible: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2owj55/welcome_drew_ryan_mike_daniel_joe_dave_david/cmrmjiq

15:48:30 assbot: ryancarnated comments on Welcome Drew, Ryan, Mike, Daniel, Joe, Dave, & David!!! ... ( http://bit.ly/1GhmHUH )

15:51:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00063726 = 14.9119 BTC [-] {3}

15:54:57 danielpbarron: !up qntranet

16:00:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00064564 = 6.3918 BTC [+]

16:09:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17111 @ 0.00065048 = 11.1304 BTC [+] {2}

16:11:59 asciilifeform: the cost of serious physics research runs well into nine digits << it costs $maxint. and not for the reasons you may think:

16:12:01 asciilifeform: !s eotvos

16:12:02 assbot: 11 results for 'eotvos' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eotvos

16:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00063635 = 10.4361 BTC [-]

16:12:31 asciilifeform: if you want actual physics done again, you probably have to wage ww3 first

16:12:31 asciilifeform: and exterminate the buggers

16:13:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00063574 = 13.9863 BTC [-] {2}

16:15:05 asciilifeform: (if anyone is unclear on why 'i'll bring in a few $b and then do physics with it' is a nonstarter, they must read the eotvos threads.)

16:23:03 mats: int32 or int64?

16:23:27 mats: :(

16:26:48 nubbins`: mats ask mp, no difference

16:27:02 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> they're just numbers, like any other numbers, exactly so.

16:27:03 nubbins`: ;D

17:02:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41000 @ 0.00063699 = 26.1166 BTC [+] {2}

17:06:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15656 @ 0.0006332 = 9.9134 BTC [-] {2}

17:20:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1082 @ 0.0012 = 1.2984 BTC {2}

17:39:11 xanthyos: hi

17:53:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.14 = 2.1 BTC [+]

17:56:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15730 @ 0.00063894 = 10.0505 BTC [+]

17:57:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34920 @ 0.00064732 = 22.6044 BTC [+] {2}

18:00:24 mircea_popescu: !up ryanxcharles

18:02:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24806 @ 0.00065658 = 16.2871 BTC [+] {4}

18:07:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18431 @ 0.00063234 = 11.6547 BTC [-] {2}

18:09:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41150 @ 0.00063074 = 25.955 BTC [-] {3}

18:16:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78688 @ 0.00062352 = 49.0635 BTC [-] {3}

18:17:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2030 @ 0.0012 = 2.436 BTC

18:24:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 3956 @ 0.0012 = 4.7472 BTC

18:31:33 mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah, what part contradicts your tender youthful mind ? :D

18:32:34 nubbins`: what is mathematics if not perspective?

18:32:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55565 @ 0.00064007 = 35.5655 BTC [+] {2}

18:32:56 mircea_popescu: ikr ?

18:35:34 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: way to argue the null case ;p << no but it was relevant in context.

18:36:03 nubbins`: well ya know. context is not relevant but from your perspective.

18:36:04 mircea_popescu: the dispute (in typical redditesque retardom) was whether 7 is "less likely" or "more likely" to stad for a nsa-diddled ecdsa curve than 5976928769872976597967965769845 or w/e

18:36:14 mircea_popescu: as if.

18:36:16 nubbins`: oh, well in that case, sure

18:36:40 nubbins`: if we do a fast phone number transform on that second one

18:36:44 mircea_popescu: dude check out the poor entropy in kbd mashing. who knew!

18:36:46 nubbins`: it's going to be a much more number

18:37:09 nubbins`: the other one won't even get you a dialtone

18:43:54 mircea_popescu: mats: 'Javascript is the languge of heaven. It is the right choice for every programming task.' << :D

18:44:06 mircea_popescu: this is so on point i swear.

18:44:18 mircea_popescu: "my cock is the right tool for everything! it can fuck things up, mess them up, screw up and everything else i normally do!"

18:45:34 mats: hey man, he's a cryptocurrency engineer

18:46:40 mircea_popescu: right, because so much crypto work is being done in the least apt language for the purpose.

18:46:53 mircea_popescu: i know whenever i have a large numbers problem i tend to fire up basic too!

18:47:19 mats: poor guy is gonna start here with a buncha criticism

18:48:12 mircea_popescu: yeah well, fortifies the soul of the chosen

18:48:27 mircea_popescu: burns the sould of the unworthy with the fire of a thousand hells + 1 matchstick.

18:48:49 mircea_popescu: fluffypony: so now you have to symlink it because half the shit expects "node" and the other half expects "nodejs" <<< bwahahaha you guise, stahp.

18:48:55 mircea_popescu: you can't be fucken serious.

18:53:30 mircea_popescu: nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951292 that shit made my ears spin. there's actually people walking the earth that put up with this shit ?

18:53:30 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2014 14:39:08; nubbins`: so a Site is now a Site Web and a Web is now a Site, but a Site Web is still Site mySiteWeb = new Site() and a Site is still Web mySite = new Web();

18:53:31 mats: http://vim-adventures.com neat-o

18:53:33 assbot: VIM Adventures ... ( http://bit.ly/1x6wziC )

18:58:20 thestringpuller: i like how mircea_popescu is more cheerful during the holidays

18:58:30 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: for christmas I want my own harem!

18:58:34 mircea_popescu: oh it's a holiday ?

18:58:51 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller trust me, it's like wanting your own tiger.

19:00:40 thestringpuller: That sounds like a pro rather than a con.

19:01:01 nubbins`: spoken like a man who never read life of pi ;p

19:01:26 thestringpuller: oh nubbins` btw I have moar werk fer ya

19:01:39 thestringpuller: you terk mah old printers jerb

19:01:41 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller exactly my point. it sounds like a pro until the 250kg beast licks you.

19:01:44 *: nubbins` scampers

19:03:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951303 << nah not actually.

19:03:36 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2014 15:04:03; mats: afaik the cost of serious physics research runs well into nine digits

19:04:09 mircea_popescu: you can coax time on expensive machinery for very little money. what costs is the bezzle support, you know ? most of grant money goes back to university to "pay for" grad students etc.

19:04:27 mircea_popescu: it's just a fictitious money shuffle.

19:04:29 asciilifeform: except when you can't get the time even for maxint.

19:04:37 asciilifeform: (see thread earlier)

19:04:53 mircea_popescu: in most times and places you actually do, in my experience.

19:05:15 thestringpuller: "pay for" grad students? given student loans...

19:05:27 mircea_popescu: i dunno how it goes in the us, but eu folks are more thna happy to oblige, and also because humans are generally lazy most machinery mostly sits idle

19:05:27 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller nono, pay the uni for their use.

19:05:33 mircea_popescu: it's dementedly complicated.

19:05:47 thestringpuller: oic

19:06:33 thestringpuller: a lot of grad students don't use scholarships, but enrollment programs in exchange for being slaves to businesses

19:06:57 thestringpuller: give business 5 good years, and they pay tuition

19:07:01 mircea_popescu: right.

19:07:10 mircea_popescu: meanwhile business sells them out like common hos.

19:07:17 mircea_popescu: for grant money the govt pays.

19:07:36 thestringpuller: much more clear.

19:07:36 mircea_popescu: best racket ever, if princeton sold shares in itself it'd obliterate the apple.

19:08:13 thestringpuller: hah princeton has so much money

19:08:41 thestringpuller: they pamper their students tho

19:10:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00064851 = 10.2465 BTC [+]

19:11:21 mircea_popescu: i guess. define pamper ?

19:11:33 mircea_popescu: 6 pairs of perky tits chained to bedroom wall ?

19:12:35 thestringpuller: that and students who like to have mental breakdowns, they have shrinks to talk you out of your alcoholism

19:12:35 thestringpuller: or what not

19:14:36 thestringpuller: instead of pamper as the word

19:15:04 thestringpuller: maybe "babysit"? essentially treating the children as children, much babysitting

19:15:12 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

19:17:17 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nope, not kidding, it's a thing in Debian as well as Ubuntu - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/4772 https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/ubuntu-repo-nodejs-require-symlink-to-node-to-use-forever etc.

19:17:18 assbot: Support for "nodejs" executable name · Issue #4772 · joyent/node · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1x6CcNL )

19:17:21 assbot: Ubuntu repo "nodejs" require symlink to "node" to use Forever? | DigitalOcean ... ( http://bit.ly/1x6Cd4i )

19:17:39 mircea_popescu: bejesus.

19:17:42 mircea_popescu: why do people hate on php again ?

19:18:24 fluffypony: I don't disagree with their decision to call it "nodejs", I think the nodejs developers are the issue - htf do they call the binary "node" when clearly that's a word that may occur on the command-line, being common in computin' circles

19:18:24 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

19:18:26 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.44, Best ask: 357.43, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 357.43, 24 hour volume: 15867.32305096, 24 hour low: 339.8, 24 hour high: 364.43, 24 hour vwap: 353.010435555

19:18:41 thestringpuller: php is ugly

19:18:41 thestringpuller: but it works

19:18:41 mircea_popescu: anyway, my heart goes out to the poor souls stuck working knee deep in this crud because of their idiotic employer.

19:18:43 mircea_popescu: no wonder they're so dissociated they claim to love it.

19:18:46 thestringpuller: i also don't like having to sanitize strings

19:19:10 thestringpuller: how kind of you mircea_popescu

19:19:42 thestringpuller: php is the only server side web tech i've found that integrates with gpg

19:20:06 thestringpuller: except maybe python running inside a tornado container (like coinbr)

19:20:08 fluffypony: django

19:20:11 fluffypony: :-P

19:20:13 mircea_popescu: perl

19:20:17 mircea_popescu: they all do don't they

19:20:47 thestringpuller: node.js gpg implementation is broken tho

19:20:58 thestringpuller: opengpg.js or whatever

19:27:04 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: was there a S.NSA statement for November 2014?

19:27:49 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller nah, asciilifeform was late and then got sick so i gave him the benefit of the "once per year, report delayed for a month"

19:28:00 thestringpuller: so double report for December?

19:28:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't throw out your draft letters! will have to append to them!

19:28:05 mircea_popescu: yea.

19:28:15 thestringpuller: will any news be announced between now and then?

19:29:52 mircea_popescu: i dunno.

19:30:20 thestringpuller: it's cool, just on edge of seat wanting to buy cardano :P

19:30:31 thestringpuller: shut_up_and_take_my_coin.jpg

19:30:32 mircea_popescu: hey, you're not the only one.

19:30:37 mircea_popescu: lettuce poke stan!

19:30:54 Namworld: Campaign is over by the way

19:30:56 Namworld: 619 website clicks

19:31:04 Namworld: Claimed by FB

19:31:28 mircea_popescu: Namworld can you send me a ss or something ? i wanna make an article of it.

19:31:53 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: at least you are managing demand, reminds me of Tesla having a 15000 car wait list, while producing ~5000 cars a year. Won't have to worry about new customers off the blocks.

19:37:18 mats: http://america.aljazeera.com/watch.html

19:37:21 assbot: Video | Al Jazeera America ... ( http://bit.ly/1x6GEvS )

19:37:33 mats: i find myself agreeing with john brennan.

19:38:05 thestringpuller: !t m d.cbse

19:38:05 assbot: [MPEX:D.CBSE] 1D: 0.1195 / 0.1195 / 0.1195 (2 shares, 0.24 BTC), 7D: 0.1195 / 0.1195 / 0.1195 (12 shares, 1.43 BTC), 30D: 0.1195 / 0.1195 / 0.1195 (36 shares, 4.30 BTC)

19:41:12 mats: o wait, talking head is just a former station chief

19:42:32 adlai: none of the derps have been consummated yet, right?

19:42:38 kakobrekla: http://shrani.si/f/b/pl/2Rbf8Sth/link-removal.png

19:42:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlPD9U )

19:42:46 mircea_popescu: what's consummatred mean

19:42:57 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller how do you figure ?

19:43:15 adlai: contract finished, delisted, paid out if appropriate, etc

19:43:21 mircea_popescu: a no.

19:43:51 thestringpuller: mpex investors are valuing d.cbse market cap at 116k btc which is like 40mn bezzles

19:43:54 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol who is this ?

19:44:05 kakobrekla: replied with a link to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951464

19:44:05 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2014 19:42:38; kakobrekla: http://shrani.si/f/b/pl/2Rbf8Sth/link-removal.png

19:44:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31250 @ 0.00064886 = 20.2769 BTC [+] {2}

19:44:16 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you accounting for their recent dillution ?

19:44:29 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2014#569594

19:44:29 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2014 04:33:07; mircea_popescu: http://www.corporatetravelsafety.com/catalog/high-security-portable-briefcase-safe-p-959.html

19:44:32 kakobrekla: your shit.

19:44:33 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what dilution? the additional vc?

19:44:38 mircea_popescu: well yes ?

19:44:47 kakobrekla: wha?

19:44:49 fluffypony: why would you remove the link

19:44:55 kakobrekla: who said i will?

19:45:00 fluffypony: no no I know

19:45:01 fluffypony: but I mean

19:45:03 fluffypony: I don't understand the point of their email

19:45:17 fluffypony: backlinks are good

19:45:17 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i was answering thestringpuller

19:45:27 kakobrekla: ah

19:45:30 mircea_popescu: fluffypony they wish to be important.

19:46:18 kakobrekla: as far as i know merica has invaded somalia and now we have freedam of spick here so he can fuck off

19:46:46 mircea_popescu: i guess the issue is, their page is now 404 and they don't want you linkign to a 404 page

19:46:55 kakobrekla: oh it is?

19:47:00 kakobrekla: i havent bothered to click

19:47:06 mircea_popescu: fuck them for having 404 pages in the first place, they should fix both their website and the broken process which resulted in this being a problem in the first place.

19:47:47 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "Should Coinbase make dilutive issuances after July 8, 2014, D.CBSE will be diluted proportionally."

19:49:22 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yes from the contract, but what would invoke this clause?

19:55:31 mike_c: kakobrekla: someone told me recently I should hire slovenians to build a mobile app for me. do you know anyone in that industry in your neck of the woods?

19:58:14 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller didnt they recently get moar investment ?

19:58:30 thestringpuller: that acts as dilution?

19:59:03 mike_c: they haven't raised since a year ago. rumor mill says they are out raising again now.

19:59:31 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller well it means more shares which means more mkt cap right ?

19:59:31 Namworld: Ah, yeah, let me check

19:59:43 mircea_popescu: mike_c i thought they just had ? or was that bitpay.

19:59:55 mike_c: http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/coinbase << last was dec 2013

19:59:56 assbot: Coinbase | CrunchBase ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlUg3L )

20:00:00 mircea_popescu: aha.

20:01:12 kakobrekla: lol mike_c all you got is they should be slovenians and thats that?

20:01:37 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i dun see where the 1/10 comes from then ?

20:01:47 kakobrekla: you know we are actually in europe, not india

20:02:34 mircea_popescu: lies

20:02:34 mike_c: you're next to madagascar or something, right? (kidding..)

20:02:34 mircea_popescu: !up ansc

20:02:35 ansc: !up

20:02:45 mircea_popescu: ello ansc. who're you ?

20:03:13 ansc: hi. i am just a simple redditard. regular reader and fan of fraudsters though.

20:03:14 mike_c: what I heard was that there were a bunch of reliable firms in eastern europe, with ukraine and slovenia being mentioned explicitly. and ukraine seems risky choice these days.

20:03:53 ansc: i am here to ask a small favour

20:04:01 mircea_popescu: lol welcome then.

20:04:03 mircea_popescu: ask away.

20:04:44 mike_c: I thought you might know some people in your irl wot from the area.

20:05:20 ansc: mp you once wrote 'thee is only one thing that matters today: bitcoin' or something similar

20:06:41 ansc: which is, as everything you write, a very true if somewhat hyperbolic assessment of the present state of the union.

20:06:47 kakobrekla: mike_c ill ask see what comes up.

20:07:03 mircea_popescu: aha ?

20:07:05 mike_c: thx

20:07:26 Namworld: Report by age group, not sure if you wanted something else: http://i.imgur.com/fuh9f9v.png

20:07:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vVTQ5f )

20:07:50 mircea_popescu: Namworld i have no idea how their stats look, so this is as good as anything.

20:07:54 mircea_popescu: tyvm for indulging me.

20:07:55 Namworld: There's an infinite number of stats and types of reports and what not.

20:07:58 ansc: could you pls elaborate a little on that thought?

20:08:51 mircea_popescu: okay.

20:09:41 mircea_popescu: take this discussion : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951164

20:09:41 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2014 09:10:20; mircea_popescu: fluffypony all future coin, of any type, and more generally all future human industry of all types is indelibly linked to bitcoin

20:10:16 mircea_popescu: the subiacent point there, perhaps unapparent, is that every human construct fundamentally relies on truth to be recognisable as such.

20:10:43 mircea_popescu: things that are completely independent are by that very fact also completely hermetic. like the ravings of the insane.

20:10:53 mircea_popescu: now, bitcoin happens to have a priviledged relationship with truth

20:11:12 mircea_popescu: and for this reason, it will necessarily enjoy a priviledged relationship with all things of import.

20:11:28 mircea_popescu: except, of course, fiction in those parts where it's hermetic, and otherwise insanity.

20:12:19 ansc: that is all fine and such. anything that human beings not destined for freedom could relate to? (referring to one of your latest blog posts)

20:13:14 mircea_popescu: reference's lost on me lol, but hm. what do you mean relate ?

20:13:23 ansc: frankly, my fellow subhumans would not remotely be able to indulge in your previously published comments.

20:13:46 mircea_popescu: like, say, the price of oil bends your future irrespective of who you are. do you call this relating to oil ?

20:13:55 mircea_popescu: whether you know or not how exactly, gravity still works.

20:14:01 mircea_popescu: we don't really happen to know atm how the fuck.

20:22:43 ansc: mp you recently wrote about the two kinds of ppl: freedom attaining and not. on fraudsters.

20:23:07 mircea_popescu: link ?

20:23:10 ansc: struck me as a fundamental truthy

20:23:31 ansc: looked but didn't find. it was your thought anyway LOL

20:24:03 ansc: explains a lot about our 'democracy' and such

20:24:19 ansc: struck me as a genius insight

20:24:45 mircea_popescu: aha.

20:27:00 rithm: mircea_popescu such genius, super genius actually

20:27:34 mircea_popescu: super super.

20:28:00 rithm: that's gotta be mensa >9000

20:28:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13036 @ 0.00064584 = 8.4192 BTC [-] {2}

20:29:49 ansc: well flattering here and there.. that's not the point.

20:29:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23264 @ 0.00062572 = 14.5568 BTC [-] {2}

20:29:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 11665 @ 0.0012 = 13.998 BTC

20:33:37 TomServo: !up ansc

20:33:52 TomServo: ansc: What is the point?

20:35:06 fluffypony: rithm: I herd it waz eyensteyen level

20:35:49 rithm: fluffypony talk dirty black holes to me

20:36:07 ansc: in our current system, one man one vote, how can we ever escape communism, other than by a collapse of the currency?

20:36:37 fluffypony: rithm: a black labrador wipes it's bum on a dirty patch of grass

20:37:09 rithm: ahhh wormholes

20:37:24 ansc: fluffypony: its

20:37:26 mircea_popescu: ansc communism is in teh head :D

20:37:45 fluffypony: ansc: it was a dirty sentence

20:37:50 rithm: i'd agree communism is a social construct and a matter or perception, sure

20:37:51 ansc: right

20:37:56 rithm: *of

20:38:33 ansc: i am so scared bc i don't see a peaceful exit from the current communist idiotic system

20:38:45 kakobrekla: >The Pirate Bay goes offline after police raid server room

20:38:48 kakobrekla: here we go again

20:38:49 mircea_popescu: the peaceful exists are the monopoly of they willing to travel.

20:39:32 mircea_popescu: i kinda enjoyed their taunting letters up until 2010 or w/e.

20:39:46 mircea_popescu: great mine canary that. you knew that once that ended, there shall be war.

20:40:11 ansc: ok but travel where to? how is argentina in that respect e.g.?

20:41:43 mircea_popescu: argentina is amusing. it has a very socialist-populist government that is very inept, and a large population hell bent on ignoring it

20:41:50 mircea_popescu: and everything that to you might pass for business sense.

20:43:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00063823 = 18.5087 BTC [+]

20:43:14 ansc: but it shows that the common man is willing to ebdure idiocy on a vast timescale that exceeds our patience by orders of magnitude

20:43:23 rithm: i like boobies tho

20:44:15 mircea_popescu: what's "the common man" care about these things.

20:45:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, to get an idea of this crazy : every time you go into a shop of any kind, you have a 50-50 chance for the sales person to try to provide what you're asking for OR to try and convince you not to buy anything.

20:45:16 ansc: well if idiocy prevails, there is no hope for mankind. does the common man not shape history?

20:45:16 mircea_popescu: because they can't be arsed to stand up, get off the phone, think about it...

20:45:23 mircea_popescu: the common man shapes his boogers.

20:45:33 ansc: haha ok righto

20:47:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00062252 = 4.4199 BTC [-]

20:52:01 asciilifeform: ;;isup thepiratebay.cr

20:52:02 gribble: thepiratebay.cr is up

20:52:09 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: wat

20:52:43 kakobrekla: nfi

20:55:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 907 @ 0.0012 = 1.0884 BTC

20:56:55 kakobrekla: i guess im ignorant like that.

21:00:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8536 @ 0.00062252 = 5.3138 BTC [-]

21:02:33 asciilifeform: to try and convince you not to buy anything << why?!

21:11:22 mircea_popescu: !scoop

21:11:27 mircea_popescu: .scoop

21:11:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92900 @ 0.00061581 = 57.2087 BTC [-] {2}

21:11:43 mircea_popescu: .scoop fraudsters.com

21:11:43 mircea_popescu: hm how did that go.

21:11:55 TomServo: scoopbot -fetch

21:11:57 TomServo: i think?

21:12:43 mircea_popescu: scoopbot -fetch fraudsters.com

21:12:49 TomServo: sans fraudsters.com, or pm -fetch

21:13:16 mircea_popescu: scoopbot -fetch

21:13:33 *: TomServo shrugs.

21:13:44 TomServo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-12-2014#949159

21:13:44 assbot: Logged on 09-12-2014 04:47:20; PeterL: now you should be able to say: scoopbot -fetch and he will get the scoop

21:14:45 mircea_popescu: scam!

21:27:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30431988

21:27:01 assbot: BBC News - Man charged in London 'slavery' inquiry ... ( http://bit.ly/1whn66n )

21:30:33 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/hello-everyone-im-facebook-martin-and-this-is-the-racquetball-trick/

21:33:37 adlai: holy fuck. bitfinex are not just derpier than imagined, they're derpier than it is possible to imagine

21:35:11 kakobrekla: what now?

21:35:24 adlai: their API fails to verify messages 240 characters and longer

21:35:46 kakobrekla: maybe you are talking to twitter?

21:38:35 adlai: maybe i need to throw their endpoint servers through a plate glass window

21:39:12 kakobrekla: are you trying to hook up scalpl to that ?

21:40:55 adlai: scalpl already talks to bitfinex, but i hadn't tried placing hidden orders before

21:41:34 adlai: but "\"is_hidden\":true," pushes the length of SOME messages over 240 characters

21:41:52 adlai: so some orders got placed. some didn't. teeth were gnashed.

21:43:13 *: adlai thinks back to when he first connected scalpl to bitfinex, and found that "signature = HMAC-SHA384(payload, api-secret) as hexadecimal" apparently also means to zero pad it to 96 bytes

21:45:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00063885 = 10.0619 BTC [+] {2}

22:01:31 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: Amazon item Q&A that you'll enjoy - http://i.imgur.com/wTBNy5F.jpg

22:01:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x79EDL )

22:37:27 mircea_popescu: lol

22:41:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: (article) 'But this is no sort of economic activity, it's just an elaborate waste, of everything. The participants could all be dead for all it'd matter to anyone...' << obligatory >> http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/07/dead-souls.html

22:42:45 mircea_popescu: something like that yea

22:43:15 danielpbarron: !up ryanxcharles

22:43:51 mircea_popescu: !isup namecheap.com/

22:44:05 mircea_popescu: ;;isup namecheap.com

22:44:06 gribble: namecheap.com is up

22:44:12 mircea_popescu: like hell it is.

22:44:35 kakobrekla: up here

22:44:57 mircea_popescu: hm.

22:45:14 mircea_popescu: ?

22:45:33 kakobrekla: yup

22:45:48 mircea_popescu: nm finally.

22:46:17 ryanxcharles: hey friends, just a comment re: javascript... personally, i think all variables should be global, and all numbers should be floating points

22:47:03 mircea_popescu: "personally" ?

22:47:08 ryanxcharles: this is why javascript is the best programming language for any task

22:47:50 kakobrekla: asciilifeform someone is writing graffiti on ba walls

22:50:39 mircea_popescu: ;;isup https://manage.www.namecheap.com/myaccount/index.asp

22:50:41 assbot: Login Signup ... ( http://bit.ly/1yERHHY )

22:50:41 gribble: https://manage.www.namecheap.com/myaccount/index.asp is up

22:50:53 mircea_popescu: not here. and who the fuck came up with that url scheme i wish to know.

22:56:35 BingoBoingo: <ryanxcharles> hey friends, just a comment re: javascript... personally, i think all variables should be global, and all numbers should be floating points << Am I still tripping?

22:57:02 mircea_popescu: "and all coders should be tripping"

22:57:11 mats: we are all tripping

22:58:49 Naphex: is it just tasks?

22:59:01 Naphex: or software?

23:01:13 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: wai wat ?

23:01:30 mats: guy doesn't read assbot PMs apparently

23:02:21 kakobrekla: ah nvm

23:06:27 adlai: is it software or are we dancer

23:10:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22242 @ 0.00061519 = 13.6831 BTC [-]

23:23:58 mats: http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/congress-quietly-bolsters-nsa-spying-in-intelligence-bill-20141211

23:23:59 assbot: Congress Quietly Bolsters NSA Spying in Intelligence Bill - NationalJournal.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GqPLHv )

23:24:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00060267 = 20.1292 BTC [-] {3}

23:24:34 mats: nice. doesn't take a fed to own me anymore.

23:29:58 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/12/cia-torture-nyms.htm

23:29:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wEWZbw )

23:30:01 asciilifeform: ^ mega-lol

23:30:32 asciilifeform: implicit message: 'there were only a few torturers! and they've retired! go back to sleep'

23:30:48 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Mar 2015 to drop under $50 before Feb 2015 " http://bitbet.us/bet/1082/ Odds: 27(Y):73(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.775 BTC. Current weight: 95,265.

23:34:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00061498 = 20.4481 BTC [+] {2}

23:38:44 mats: http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20141208/FY%202015%20IAA.PDF >> "The Secretary of State shall ensure that ... every supervisory position at a United States diplomatic facility in the Russian Federation shall be occupied by a citizen of the United States'

23:38:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wEYXsw )

23:40:56 mats: 'Each United States diplomatic facility that [is in] ... the Russian Federation, or any country that is a former member of the Soviet Union shall be constructed to include a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.'

23:41:09 *: mats scratches head

23:41:09 asciilifeform: afaik this is ancient statute

23:41:31 mats: i'm wondering why this is even in the bill.

23:41:52 mats: these are things that should be done already.

23:43:53 asciilifeform: mega-lulz in section 312.


23:46:06 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816569

23:46:06 assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 21:57:45; mircea_popescu: "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?"

23:48:56 mats: 'the President should establish and maintain an intelligence and law enforcement cooperation scorecard with metrics designed to measure the number of instances that intelligence and law enforcement agencies in the United States require assistance from intelligence and law enforcement agencies in Ukraine'

23:50:05 mats: write summaries for us, we can't be bothered to read all these danged reports you know!

23:53:57 asciilifeform: 'describe the actions the United States is taking to support implementation of the recommendations of the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, including the eventual establishment of a tribunal to hold individuals accountable for abuses' << sovereignty, what's that

23:54:07 asciilifeform: only usa - sovereign

23:54:14 asciilifeform: derpschland uber alles!

23:58:10 asciilifeform: 'a report on the threat posed by man-made electromagnetic pulse weapons to United States interests through 2025, including threats from foreign countries...' >> easy:

23:58:13 asciilifeform: let them hire a translator:

23:58:14 asciilifeform: http://pirochem.net/index.php?id1=3&category=pirophysics&author=prishepenko-ab&book=2008

23:58:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wF3knl )

23:59:28 asciilifeform: ^ text descibes not only what is physically-possible on the subject, but the author's struggles to convince management that it is entirely infeasible to set up a nuke-style 'emp' using anything other than a nuke