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Transcript for 12-04-2015, 1050 lines:

00:49:29 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo?

00:49:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 449 @ 0.00251001 = 1.127 BTC [-]

00:50:33 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, mod6 (others tracking the DNS seed thread as well): i'd like to hear from you all as well

01:06:32 mircea_popescu: that js at google "leaked email" thing is retarded.

01:07:12 mircea_popescu: first off, the ios bs is no thread to the web. second off, the web's reach was never a major factor. third off, the web is failing, on its dismerits, but those have exactly nothing to do with javascript.

01:07:35 mircea_popescu: fourth, js was never a significant or worthy of mention part of the web, at no stage in its lifecycle and certainly not during "infancy".

01:07:56 mircea_popescu: fifth, the "web designer community" is ~= vc bezzle. it has exactly nothing to do with the web, relevancy, the future or anything else.

01:08:11 mircea_popescu: and i could go on but whatevs. not like we're writing the encyclopedia of stupid.

01:10:23 mircea_popescu: !up williamdunne

01:10:32 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot williamdunne

01:10:33 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/williamdunne | http://w.b-a.link/user/williamdunne

01:10:37 williamdunne: Thank you

01:10:39 mircea_popescu: !rate williamdunne 1 new blood

01:10:39 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a22aaa1730ad9108

01:11:01 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.williamdunne.1:6f842a3ee562affa0e377e4854d8c2a068b5464a0bb241fec1ff5a28c232aa96

01:11:01 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: new blood

01:11:44 williamdunne: So the b-a WoT is separate to the b-otc WoT

01:11:59 mircea_popescu: yes.

01:12:16 williamdunne: And yeah, JS has always been about sacrificing security/performance for UX

01:13:14 mircea_popescu: "ux".

01:13:43 williamdunne: Well yes, most of the time they take it overboard and it ends up being a suicidal ordeal

01:13:55 mircea_popescu: dux, more properly said. "interface with the stupid users". while i see a clear reason why all women should twerk, whether they like to or not, i see no reason any computer should ever twerk, whether women want them to or not.

01:14:01 mircea_popescu: currently this situation is ass-backwards.

01:14:42 williamdunne: "how do i use mpex - i think the css is broken1"

01:15:24 mircea_popescu: i should probably put a "if you don't see the css, please get the latest version of your browser"

01:15:26 mircea_popescu: drive people nuts.

01:15:53 williamdunne: "please install internet explorer 6"

01:16:23 mircea_popescu: "mpex is from the future. you need internet exploder 28 to view its css v 9 1/3"

01:16:56 williamdunne: However that sort of tomfoolery might lose you your "slightly smoky dragon" award

01:17:10 mircea_popescu: " The ability to incrementally develop programs (featured in the first video) has been a cornerstone feature of Lisp since the 80s (or earlier). " << you know this is the only way i like to program in the rare cases i actually do ?

01:17:21 mircea_popescu: lol

01:20:06 williamdunne: Yes I can remember reading something by you about the stupidity of beautiful code

01:20:30 williamdunne: Or at least of having beautiful code being prioritized over functional code

01:21:27 mircea_popescu: mebbe

01:26:06 assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.000206 = 2.06 BTC [-]

01:27:02 williamdunne: Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?

01:28:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 157550 @ 0.00029285 = 46.1385 BTC [-] {2}

01:35:44 mircea_popescu: once the blog's back remind me an' i'll link you.

01:36:37 williamdunne: Thank you

01:48:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 301100 @ 0.00029719 = 89.4839 BTC [+] {2}

02:04:05 williamdunne: Is the source for the WoT available? If I have some free time I'd like to take a crack at making it more readable

02:07:06 felipelalli: !rate mircea_popescu 2 "his articles are great and fully of truth"

02:07:06 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a198584104efc51a

02:09:29 felipelalli: williamdunne: "Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?" << I wonder the same.

02:10:04 felipelalli: williamdunne: this was for me the icing on the cake.

02:10:29 williamdunne: Gotta love some hedging

02:22:02 asciilifeform: re: the mit thing:

02:22:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846759 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846760

02:22:08 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:43; asciilifeform: sussman, surrendering to decay:

02:22:08 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:44; asciilifeform: 'You have to do basic science on your libraries to see how they work, trying out different inputs and seeing how the code reacts.'

02:22:14 williamdunne: If anyone is looking for a keybase.io invite hit me up

02:22:28 asciilifeform: ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe.

02:22:53 asciilifeform: williamdunne: we don't want invite to coprophagic restaurant either...

02:23:35 williamdunne: To each his own, while its certainly not a WoT it seems useful to me

02:24:03 williamdunne: (It is not meant to be WoT)

02:24:05 asciilifeform: williamdunne: keybase and friends (usg in the broadest possible sense) can read your mail and sign as you.

02:24:17 asciilifeform: if this satisfies you, why are you even bothering with crypto

02:24:29 williamdunne: I don't store by GPG keys on Keybase...

02:25:21 asciilifeform: to continue with mit thread: and to answer whaack's question: yes being associated with modern mit (vs 1980s and prior) is a serious strike against you. especially if you 'succeed' there. or, heaven help you, employed therein

02:25:49 asciilifeform: to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so.

02:26:15 asciilifeform: virtually 100% envirowhinerism, 'solutions' for the turd world, or 'accomplishments' of the Officially Sad

02:26:36 asciilifeform: nothing even remotely SICP like.

02:26:45 asciilifeform: since 1990 or so.

02:28:30 asciilifeform: and yes i wanted to probe ben_vulpes before saying all of this.

02:28:38 asciilifeform: see how much his picture overlapped with mine.

02:29:20 asciilifeform: but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.

02:29:37 asciilifeform: and wish to see it demolished, the earth - salted, the inhabitants - lowered into pederasty

02:30:30 asciilifeform: folks who went there - either of these or any other top academies of usg - by all rights ought to pretend to have spent their youth in jail or army.

02:31:10 williamdunne: Both of which cost less

02:31:24 asciilifeform: suppose you meet a chemist who enthusiastically studied and 'succeeded' - top marks! - under elena ceausescu.

02:31:30 asciilifeform: or a biologist - under lysenko.

02:31:41 asciilifeform: what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?

02:35:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 << gabriel_laddel has good summaries of things, but i must confess that i am not particularly interested in 'lispy unix' as i consider it coprophagic pizza.

02:35:40 assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an

02:36:16 asciilifeform: trimming down a unixlike to run therealbitcoin and other traditional proggies that we're stuck with - is one thing

02:36:29 asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.

02:38:29 mats: 22:22:28 <+asciilifeform> ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe. << link?

02:38:50 asciilifeform: mats: linked shortly below in one of the linked log threads

02:40:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry. << a more or less complete description of most american 'education' on most-any subject today.

02:40:12 asciilifeform: not just at university level, either.

02:40:56 asciilifeform: mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir. << i imagine you know what takes place there.

02:41:09 mats: its not linked, but i did find it by querying the fragment http://wingolog.org/archives/2009/03/24/international-lisp-conference-day-two

02:41:09 assbot: international lisp conference -- day two -- wingolog ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXDJsm )

02:41:44 asciilifeform: (palantir holds the title for best nameable candidate for meta-nsa. in that they are known to produce the tools which actually work, and - not being part of civil service hierarchy - are free to actually pay programmers something like real money)

02:43:19 asciilifeform: when i say 'meta-nsa' - again it does not meant that every bipedal amoebal 'success organism' drawing pay there is a brilliant master

02:43:30 asciilifeform: most folks in any large organization whatsoever are chaff.

02:43:33 mats: yes, thats why i mentioned it. as a word of caution about respecting the enemy.

02:44:42 mats: sometimes i wonder if folks in here have spent too much time battling midgets and have forgotten what its like to fight a man.

02:45:10 whaack: to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so. << as was expressed in my conversation with mp, mit's press facade is different than its internals. Much like bitcoin

02:45:21 asciilifeform: mats: man appears to fight mainly by swinging midgets like hammer

02:45:29 asciilifeform: (why - ask him, not me)

02:45:32 mats: lol.

02:45:56 asciilifeform: whaack: ultimately 'you are what you pretend to be, so choose carefully what to pretend to be'

02:46:05 asciilifeform: this applies to mit, usg, rome, whoever.

02:46:23 decimation: mats: http://madsciencedefense.com/2014-hand-to-hand-study/ < turns out us military has used hand-to-hand more often than one might think

02:46:26 assbot: The 2014 Hand-to-Hand StudyMad Science Defense ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXEpy1 )

02:46:35 decimation: "216 out of 1,226 Soldiers (19.0%) reported using hand-to-hand combat skills in at least one encounter. The Soldiers’ descriptions indicated that hand-to-hand combat occurred in a variety of tactical situations "

02:46:55 mats: of course. USG spent the last decade in iraq fighting in hovels.

02:47:09 asciilifeform: how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?

02:47:11 mats: 'combatives' are an essential part of training. especially in MOUT.

02:47:14 decimation: “The second lesson incorporated from the PAIs was that Soldiers in OEF and OIF reported that their hand-to-hand combat encounters revolved around a contest over the Soldier’s weapon (e.g., rifle). It appears that a Soldier’s opponent regularly attempted to wrest control of the Soldier’s weapon during hand-to-hand combat encounters.”

02:47:22 mats: (military operations in urban terrain)

02:48:20 asciilifeform: mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT << i find it peculiar that anyone would expect to encounter any concentration of such folks in the flesh, for the most part anywhere

02:48:46 mats: i didn't expect it, i sought them out

02:48:46 asciilifeform: what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen

02:49:10 asciilifeform: prestige farms draw narcissists, 'news at 11.'

02:49:45 mats: if not to learn from them, then to identify useful assets

02:50:12 decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/03/campbell_harvey.html < a wider indictment of academia

02:50:13 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBi8Wn )

02:50:33 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker

02:50:35 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.73, Best ask: 237.89, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 237.82, 24 hour volume: 18095.46381514, 24 hour low: 233.72, 24 hour high: 240.58, 24 hour vwap: None

02:50:43 decimation: "So the sort of papers that are published in psychology, over 92% of them are, 'Oh, here's a hypothesis; I did an experiment; and I get support.' So that is a problem. Because it leads to people essentially data mining to find a result to find a result and then getting it published. "

02:51:11 asciilifeform: decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety.

02:51:17 asciilifeform: because 'our pheeeelingz matter'

02:51:35 asciilifeform: damnatio memoriae.

02:51:50 asciilifeform: everyone responsible - straight to butugychag.

02:51:54 decimation: "What worries me is that some of these findings that are found with the big data and the data miners, that people look at the findings and then only after the finding, they concoct a story or a theory, develop ex post some intuition, as to why this should work. And I think that's dangerous. I prefer to work on the basis of first principles: what is reasonable."

02:52:11 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.

02:52:51 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is merely the top concern among such meat processing plants, just as mcdonalds is a leader but sole player in the recycled-food field.

02:53:10 whaack: what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen << my point is the showmen are simply the loudest

02:53:42 asciilifeform: i choose to place the fall of mit as the moment when sicp fell

02:53:59 asciilifeform: just as the fall of rome is pinned to the particular overthrow where it is traditionally pinned

02:54:12 asciilifeform: though both edifices were rotten quite thoroughly to the core long prior.

02:54:19 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i labored a bottom-tier version of same. if that place was as it was, MIT must be even more so.

02:54:23 ben_vulpes: at* a

02:55:30 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my first gig out of school was at an abominable usg-contracting salt mine where little gurlz straight out of mit, for that fact alone, were promoted, repeatedly, over everyone else's head

02:56:07 asciilifeform: revoltingly studious think-in-the box bitches, just as you might imagine

02:56:32 *: ben_vulpes can readily see it

02:57:00 ben_vulpes: i studied with many of the like. getting them to think outside of the box was not worth the time as there was no prerequisite dicksucking going along with it.

02:57:09 asciilifeform: it was even more of a circus:

02:58:16 asciilifeform: as you may know, i live nowhere near mit. there were two offices. one, in cambridge, contained these masturbators, where they played with (largely nonfunctional) robots all day. whereas ours did the - predominantly deadly boring - work which actually paid the bills.

02:59:02 asciilifeform: but enough of salt mines. i mention it because it was my first wake-up call that something happened to the mythical 'mecca' which i respected for 'having produced lisp machine and sicp'

02:59:20 asciilifeform: before this, i only knew of mit at all from books.

02:59:39 asciilifeform: it was a quasi-mythological animal in my mind, like library of alexandria

03:01:08 asciilifeform: *not sole player in recycled food

03:01:31 decimation: asciilifeform: example of such an mit gurl > http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/863.08/people/nadya/

03:01:32 assbot: how to make almost anything ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBj5Ot )

03:01:47 asciilifeform: decimation: no shortage of these

03:02:14 decimation: she apparently spends her time coming up with python code to control motors

03:02:19 decimation: as a 'graduate student'

03:02:30 asciilifeform: decimation: have you -met- a modern graduate student ?

03:02:43 asciilifeform: if the code is not plagiarized wholesale, this puts her above 99% of'em.

03:03:00 decimation: heh good point

03:05:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase. mircea_popescu: and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" << a large part of the purpose of current mit is to produce the folks who will produce these patches.

03:06:12 asciilifeform: they are not, as someone might suppose, dead weight;

03:06:16 asciilifeform: rather, they are politruks.

03:06:58 asciilifeform: and there is to be one in every office, lab, bus, train, - elevator.

03:07:06 asciilifeform: never out of earshot of a Party member.

03:07:18 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I love this article: http://fraudsters.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/ do you keep this opinion?

03:07:18 assbot: Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca77d8 )

03:07:38 asciilifeform: ;;isup fraudsters.com

03:07:42 gribble: fraudsters.com is down

03:08:19 felipelalli: it's not just you! http://fraudsters.com looks down from here.

03:08:20 assbot: fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8nPcr )

03:08:43 asciilifeform: felipelalli: it was unplugged (see mircea_popescu's explanation last night) and evidently not yet rehosted.

03:11:08 felipelalli: asciilifeform: thanks.

03:11:31 felipelalli: !gettrust asciilifeform

03:11:32 assbot: Trust relationship from user felipelalli to user asciilifeform: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 7 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/felipelalli/asciilifeform | http://w.b-a.link/user/asciilifeform

03:11:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr. << i have never once found work through an 'hr'. this is not uncommon among my meatwot. (not a magical feat by any means at any rate.)

03:14:07 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo? << the initial nodes must be us.

03:14:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: can't speak for others, but i refuse to consider the leaking turd usable in any sense whatsoever.

03:16:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160000 @ 0.00029166 = 46.6656 BTC [-] {2}

03:18:27 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/blob/master/browser/conkeror.lisp << why?!>!!?

03:18:28 assbot: masamune/conkeror.lisp at master · gabriel-laddel/masamune · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBkHrs )

03:20:01 mircea_popescu: <williamdunne> Is the source for the WoT available? << if you mean, how to interact with assbot ? it's in wiki.

03:20:02 mircea_popescu: !h

03:20:02 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

03:21:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097925 << not that bad if you're black, tho.

03:21:59 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:29:20; asciilifeform: but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.

03:23:03 decimation: ben_vulpes: looks like they rolled ERC into the new emacs (24.5)

03:23:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853306 ?

03:23:29 assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 11:58:20; mircea_popescu: if i were black in the us i would be fucking worried for my children. being ~10% of the population and >50% of the public discourse is how the hasidim suddenly disappeared from history.

03:23:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097931 << one of the brightest minds in an XX body i ever met had finished her thesis under romania's most inept "logician", cca 1988. the woman was not significantly harmed by a half decade's internship with that bootmaker in disguise.

03:23:53 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:31:41; asciilifeform: what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?

03:24:12 mircea_popescu: the thing is, romania at the time had a very specific atmosphere, one that protected such people in such situaitons like al oxides protect the al.

03:24:13 asciilifeform: happens!

03:24:41 asciilifeform: i, for instance, happen to believe that soviet mathematics will not be equalled for the next 500 years.

03:24:50 asciilifeform: (yes, pulled number from my prophetic sphincter.)

03:25:02 asciilifeform: and it worked on precisely this 'oxide' principle.

03:25:10 mircea_popescu: which is why despising mit as a group is so important : people who despise their inept professors may survive them even when forced by events to work there.

03:25:38 *: asciilifeform can only with great difficulty picture anyone 'forced' to partake of mit, but allows for the sake of argument.

03:25:39 mircea_popescu: similarly, but in the other direction, abject slaves that nevertheless unwholesomely despise their superior masters remain abject irrespective of time spent in slavery thereof.

03:26:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so don't have children. problem solved.

03:26:33 *: asciilifeform thinks it will be a hilarious cosmic joke if the sharashka he is worked to death in happens to be built at mit.

03:26:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which problem

03:27:09 mircea_popescu: seems only fare. i mean fire. i mean pharoh.

03:27:13 mircea_popescu: fair, whatever.

03:27:21 mircea_popescu: the children problem. ten lines up.

03:27:33 asciilifeform: aha that one.

03:28:48 asciilifeform: i would observe that everyone presently in good favour of usg by virtue of their 'passport data' - skin, gonads, etc. - runs the risk of ending up weimar-jewed

03:28:56 asciilifeform: if events take a sudden turn.

03:29:06 mircea_popescu: ironically, the jewish situation... oh gawd. at the time of the holocaust, the hasidim were arguably the most advanced troop in the world. certainly > 90% of jewry by cultural and intellectual weight, if 50% or so by mass. for all the squalor of the old manhattan, which is what eastern europe was, the place rocked.

03:29:21 mircea_popescu: then the nazis wiped them, modern jewry is in this situation where someone cut the flower, kept the stalk in a vase.

03:29:33 mircea_popescu: not only very very sad as it decays... but also mindboggling.

03:30:01 asciilifeform: is the last yidish newspaper in brooklyn out of print yet?

03:30:16 mircea_popescu: either a decade ago or a decade hence, but yeah.

03:30:24 *: asciilifeform was last there in '01, shortly pre-bigboom, and it was in business

03:30:56 asciilifeform: mainly shipped to old folks' homes though

03:31:13 mircea_popescu: yeah, but in 2001 you could not find a better newspaper in new york.

03:32:07 mircea_popescu: and that was 2001. long, long before the greenwaldization, long long before the pr-intern and dumb-blonde-chick-from-minessota that eventually yielded its own bastardized meta-story eventually apotheosized in that horseface dumbass...

03:32:23 mircea_popescu: pretty decayed, yes, but nowhere near today's.

03:32:36 asciilifeform: the seeds of all of it were not only in the ground, but long sprouted and budding leaves.

03:32:49 mircea_popescu: sure, no argument. nevertheless, there was still ground.

03:32:49 asciilifeform: al schwartz observed the signs in '94 up

03:32:56 mircea_popescu: and on that ground that there was, nyt could not compete.

03:34:12 mircea_popescu: funny that newspapers survived mad koontz but did not survive vint cerf.

03:34:32 mircea_popescu: btw, was http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389 here ? i forget.

03:34:33 assbot: Google's Vint Cerf warns of 'digital Dark Age' - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV78o6 )

03:35:07 asciilifeform: iirc

03:35:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116387 @ 0.00028979 = 33.7278 BTC [-] {2}

03:35:52 asciilifeform: insulting to the intelligence of anyone who watched google usenet archive decay

03:35:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << it's a draft, eh.

03:35:53 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.

03:36:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, you think usenet was salvageable ?!

03:36:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hybrid of oxcart and airplane, where we progressively remove pieces of the ox yoke - uninteresting to me.

03:36:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: salvageable in the preserve-in-ice sense

03:36:40 mircea_popescu: ok, one at a time.

03:36:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am at this point convinced that google killed it deliberately.

03:36:47 whaack: to end the discussion of mit O, "MIT Technology Review" http://www.technologyreview.com/view/524666/bitcoin-lacks-the-properties-of-a-real-currency/

03:36:48 assbot: Bitcoin Lacks the Properties of a Real Currency | MIT Technology Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV7kDG )

03:36:51 mircea_popescu: the guy's draft : nothing has been construted. let him draw.

03:37:02 asciilifeform: the folks who were making fools of themselves on usenet now want to be usg brass

03:37:12 asciilifeform: so it was time to desaparecer the spew.

03:37:30 mircea_popescu: the usenet : you can not "preserve in ice". this requires two naive presupositions : one that the text is self contained, the other that the text is fixed. neither is true.

03:37:56 mircea_popescu: much like any living organism, the text can only be interpreted in its environment (here - the people who wrote it), and only as a functional, living thing.

03:37:59 mircea_popescu: otherwise...

03:38:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fact is, there was a pretty useful and fairly complete snapshot in the ice. and now i look in the cryostat and find rotting gibblets and alive with flies.

03:38:16 asciilifeform: there were no flies before.

03:38:20 mircea_popescu: this is true of the lenin mausoleum as well.

03:38:20 asciilifeform: and -considerably- more flesh

03:38:28 mircea_popescu: it is a property of the ice.

03:38:32 asciilifeform: and the process was -not- continuous, as in lenin's case.

03:38:42 mircea_popescu: the perceptible part was not.

03:38:42 asciilifeform: the thing stopped being searchable roughly two years ago.

03:38:52 mircea_popescu: again - the supposition that the entire text is given in itself is naive.

03:39:01 mircea_popescu: just as much a part of it is invisible, and that invisibly decayed.

03:39:08 asciilifeform: i have copies of several groups day-by-day of own making.

03:39:17 asciilifeform: google's snapshot was 99+%, for them.

03:39:20 mircea_popescu: they only exist because you saved the unsaveable as well,

03:39:22 mircea_popescu: if unintentionally.

03:39:31 asciilifeform: unsaveable lol

03:39:35 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:39:55 mircea_popescu: think in variety speak terms. for it's what it is.

03:40:09 asciilifeform: if what mircea_popescu is alluding to is that the design of usenet allowed for the possibility of 'parallel universes' where folks carry on a conversation that never reached my server - then yes.

03:40:11 asciilifeform: it is true.

03:40:17 mircea_popescu: not in the slightest.

03:40:39 mircea_popescu: what i am saying is that preconceived notions must be shared, for the text to be readable. these preconceptions melted.

03:41:06 asciilifeform: 'xxxx is not yet dead, while we still live' (TM)

03:41:14 mircea_popescu: careful with that "we".

03:41:18 mircea_popescu: it does not mean what it appears to mean.

03:41:19 asciilifeform: well, just me.

03:41:24 mircea_popescu: well, so there you have it.

03:41:32 mircea_popescu: everyone that can read it may keep a copy, and no one else.

03:41:35 mircea_popescu: however they may try.

03:41:46 mircea_popescu: and by "can read it" i mean, of course, "could have written it"

03:42:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's suppose. then, when precisely did the flame go out ?

03:42:51 mircea_popescu: probably dotcom bust rattled enough of the people that they wanted to forget.

03:43:00 asciilifeform: i mean, i grasp that mircea_popescu is referring to cultural death.

03:43:05 mircea_popescu: it may be that they wanted to forget for the reason you suspect, but i do not think so.

03:43:15 mircea_popescu: rarely do people wish to forget for a purpose. it's almost always for a cause

03:43:26 mircea_popescu: and that cause almost always is, "i can not believe how stupid i've been"

03:43:44 asciilifeform: the 'digital vellum' think is maddening precisely because of the idiot scholasticism implied

03:43:50 mircea_popescu: myeah.

03:44:01 mircea_popescu: he's going to freeze the text AND THE OS dontcha know.

03:44:04 asciilifeform: sorta like the monks who copied geometric tracts without any comprehension at all, or any regard for the actual content

03:44:10 asciilifeform: but only the pretty pictures, perverted to taste

03:44:20 mircea_popescu: tyvm. meanwhile, i can't fucking remember where the tread on X is. so what do i do ? i ask here. and someone remembers and links.

03:44:22 mircea_popescu: freeze that.

03:44:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180400 @ 0.00028431 = 51.2895 BTC [-] {3}

03:45:32 asciilifeform: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32270655

03:45:33 assbot: Capitol Hill locked down as gunman shoots himself - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBn6Cu )

03:45:34 asciilifeform: mega-l0l

03:45:42 mircea_popescu: the problem with ascii being like naughty bits is merely a reflection of the much larger problem : everything about a text is like that. by itself.

03:46:04 asciilifeform: i walked right by, saw no more than the usual amount of stormtroopers.

03:46:06 mircea_popescu: introducing the gossipd style of comms changes nothing at all, merely makes this divide palpable, like that famous japanese butcher's following of the lines already there.

03:46:20 mircea_popescu: otherwise, the same string from different hands is different, irreducibly.

03:46:28 mircea_popescu: links right into why one can't have "ideas" and all that.

03:47:20 mircea_popescu: incidentally, why do they not say "gunmanorwoman" ?

03:47:46 asciilifeform: l0l guess.

03:47:56 mircea_popescu: "Confirmed: self-inflicted gunshot by neutralized subject," Capital Police spokeswoman Kimberly Schneider said in a statement.

03:47:58 mircea_popescu: uh...

03:48:03 mircea_popescu: this language...

03:48:50 asciilifeform: my mental image was inevitably a hog-tied fella, extracting a little pistol from his arse houdini-style, to end it all and avoid the torture chambers.

03:49:31 mircea_popescu: i thought houdini couldn't get it up.

03:50:44 *: asciilifeform not familiar with this detail.

03:50:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097958 << arbalest.

03:50:49 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:47:09; asciilifeform: how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?

03:51:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or these well-known items, http://world.guns.ru/ammunition/russian-special-cartridges-r.html

03:51:59 assbot: Современное стрелковое оружие мира - Специальные Российские патроны ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBnHEg )

03:52:05 asciilifeform: ^ produced even today.

03:52:21 mircea_popescu: for the obvious reason. bette than a knife

03:52:36 mircea_popescu: in fact, most sentires do not even realise they've been shot at if you miss before you reload.

03:53:03 asciilifeform: subsonic, aha.

03:53:34 mircea_popescu: and anyone (tm) should be able to sever a cervical spine at twenty paces.

03:53:58 asciilifeform: http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=815 << original, afaik, example of the principle.

03:53:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV8Cij )

03:55:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097977 << stanford is the patriotic one.

03:55:56 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:52:11; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.

03:55:58 asciilifeform: in gurevich's system, there was no iron piston, as in the later 'СП'. instead, there was a small quantity of... water.

03:56:04 mircea_popescu: mit is the "for the economy" one.

03:56:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually mit subdivision 'lincoln labs' - and several smaller orgs - serve top tier .mil and intelligence contractors.

03:56:52 mircea_popescu: also for the economy.

03:57:06 asciilifeform: what then happens in the 'patriotic' zoo ?

03:57:22 mircea_popescu: mmm... obama.

03:58:07 mircea_popescu: see, they're all selling the same snake oil, but! harvard is "for humanity', stanford is "patriotism", mit is "for the economy", the chicks one whatever it's called is "for the arts" etc.

04:01:35 mircea_popescu: and speaking of the muppet in chief : anyone ever recall that embarassment when he was calling himself a "professor of constitution" while having been a lecturer, so eventually chicago came out with "he was REGARDED as a professor" ?

04:01:43 mircea_popescu: uniquely kim-il-nigger moment.

04:02:31 asciilifeform: 9 of 10 street schmucks will say he was professor.

04:02:37 asciilifeform: because 'grey lady' said.

04:02:44 asciilifeform: and this kind of thing is not retractable.

04:02:53 mircea_popescu: yes, sure. fuck them, who cares what the cattle "thinks".

04:02:57 mircea_popescu: but the point is... lemme find it.

04:03:31 mircea_popescu: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media

04:03:34 assbot: Media Inquiries | University of Chicago Law School ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBoKUI )

04:03:37 mircea_popescu: "From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is d

04:03:37 mircea_popescu: istinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined."

04:03:40 asciilifeform: mr mold found (and then retracted, somehow) some fairly convincing evidence that mr o never actually attended classes, as student

04:03:41 asciilifeform: no one cares.

04:03:52 mircea_popescu: see... that random schmuck doesn't know which side his nose is blown is one thing.

04:04:11 mircea_popescu: when the necks are [self]squeezed to the point a supposed "law school" publishes that tripe it is ANOTHER thing.

04:04:28 mircea_popescu: i prefer to refer to that other thing as kim-il-nigger. seems adequate.

04:05:23 mircea_popescu: "he is what he might have been had he been it". how about that ? insanity rampant.

04:05:26 asciilifeform: aha. the question of whether elena actually thought that being a chemist is being what she was, and mr o - professor of law, i will leave to the shrinks

04:05:54 mircea_popescu: i suspect the old woman was the sane of the two.

04:05:58 asciilifeform: (al schwartz, incidentally, was quite fascinated with elena c. and her 'chemistry' in much the same way i am)

04:06:08 mircea_popescu: i can't imagine why ?

04:06:12 asciilifeform: i imagine he found it uniquely galling

04:06:16 mircea_popescu: i suppose neither of you ever kept whores ?

04:06:23 asciilifeform: no idea what he kept

04:06:27 asciilifeform: i've none

04:06:56 mircea_popescu: it's a very simple thing : whores are, in point of fact, for the fact of having been whores, superior to "mere women", ie, the usual vanilla nitwit. this is a fact, incontrovertible as the fact that the sun is glowier than the moon.

04:07:07 mircea_popescu: however, the nitwits are a) abundant and b) firmly convinced of the contrary.

04:07:28 mircea_popescu: thus whore always finds herself in the position where the cheapest avenue is to ask master for a hammer to shut the dumbasses up.

04:07:32 mircea_popescu: she always receives.

04:07:35 mircea_popescu: as she always should.

04:07:47 mircea_popescu: elena is in no way different from evita, on this score.

04:07:54 *: asciilifeform wonders if 'whore' means the customary thing, to mircea_popescu, or if it is a mistranslation of something

04:08:13 mircea_popescu: whore is a woman who has sex like a man.

04:08:29 asciilifeform: i am told that there are men who have sex for pay

04:08:34 asciilifeform: but never met alive.

04:08:51 mircea_popescu: eh, that's a corner case. most men don't need to be paid to fuck.

04:09:07 mircea_popescu: heck, you can just throw some printed sheets out of a car going "gangbang at X address" and you'll get a queue

04:09:16 mircea_popescu: or at least could a while back. mebbe world's changed, who knows.

04:10:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, it is at best naive to imagine whore is whore "because the money". not so. whore does not give a shit, at which point might as well be paid. because - queue. has to be sorted somehow.

04:10:50 asciilifeform: so, much as 'software' to naggum et al means something quite other than what it means to the schmuck who goes to the 'computer shop' to buy antivirus etc.;

04:11:01 asciilifeform: 'whore' means very other thing to mircea_popescu than to the folks back on planet 3

04:11:09 mircea_popescu: what'd be the difference ?

04:11:11 asciilifeform: when i land on mars i would like to meet these !

04:12:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where i live, at least to the 'street computer shop' level of apprehension, a whore is an abject and usually physically revolting creature who fellates what may well be gorillas for a hit of 'crack'

04:12:22 mircea_popescu: well... that'd be a crack whore.

04:12:38 decimation: re: obaama < he has an actual history, some one knows it

04:12:39 mircea_popescu: yeah, i suppose if by "programmer" you meant "web programmer"...

04:12:45 asciilifeform: the other whore, is a college gurl who occasionally 'dates' old man in exchange for tuition money.

04:12:57 mircea_popescu: that's usually the amateur.

04:13:07 mircea_popescu: in this sense, i'm a coder because i ocasionally edit html o.O

04:13:25 asciilifeform: everything else re: whores may as well be at nsa in the vaults, as far as my incomplete education is concerned.

04:13:26 mircea_popescu: and you will notice that even as an amateur - she ALSO charges for queing, ie, after the fact.

04:13:31 mircea_popescu: she fucks old men because she fucks old men.

04:13:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the normal rationale is 'we rob banks because that's where the money is'

04:13:48 mircea_popescu: once she does that, might as well pick a good one.

04:13:55 asciilifeform: when she runs into young man with money - goes there.

04:14:07 mircea_popescu: not so.

04:14:14 mircea_popescu: generally can not stand young man, irrespective of money.

04:14:29 asciilifeform: 'young' being 10 yrs. her senior, rather than 35.

04:14:30 mircea_popescu: "fucking idiots - the lot of them". exact quote. heard xn

04:14:42 mircea_popescu: ah. no young being her age. anyway.

04:14:50 asciilifeform: ^ this - yes.

04:15:04 asciilifeform: even i knew this.

04:15:26 mircea_popescu: one thing i don't think anyone can blame the whorish co-ed for, not getting involved with the bros.

04:15:27 decimation: bill ayers knows but is not talking

04:15:46 asciilifeform: decimation: i saw ayers alive once - public talk. it was quite an experience.

04:15:51 mircea_popescu: or with the - horror of horrors - sensitive, lonely, loving geek.

04:16:04 asciilifeform: or with goats, sheep

04:16:55 mircea_popescu: "Calling Bill Ayers a school reformer is a bit like calling Joseph Stalin an agricultural reformer." << that ayers ?

04:17:05 asciilifeform: that one.

04:17:27 mircea_popescu: you know he was at ows ?

04:17:29 decimation: aye

04:17:40 asciilifeform: he was in quite a few places.

04:17:41 mircea_popescu: most nobody knew who he was. so fucking funny this shit, whenever something happened, the us "public intellectual" has to show up

04:17:52 mircea_popescu: it's funnier (to me) than the old soviet confusion.

04:18:02 decimation: he supposedly wrote obamas book

04:18:18 mircea_popescu: the one on polymers ?

04:18:22 *: asciilifeform always feels temptation to snip a letter, 'pubic intellectual'

04:18:22 mircea_popescu: wait, wrong whore.

04:18:25 mircea_popescu: what was it on ?

04:18:32 asciilifeform: l0l

04:18:36 decimation: 'dreams of my father'

04:18:45 mircea_popescu: obama didn't know his father ?

04:19:15 asciilifeform: overwhelming evidence that he did not.

04:19:47 mircea_popescu: color me a shade of surprised.

04:20:03 mircea_popescu: hm... i guess in the context "color me" is a faux pas ?

04:24:02 asciilifeform: http://one-evil.org/content/symbols_gold.html << entirely unrelated but mega-l0l for connoisseurs of crackpottery (psychoceramics!)

04:24:02 assbot: One Evil: Gold ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoYbSz )

04:26:43 decimation: as I recall moldbug once linked to some pretty convincing evidence re:ayers wrote obama's autobiography

04:27:49 asciilifeform: decimation: aha. shortly after this i wondered wtf even to care.

04:28:49 decimation: "In To Teach, Ayers recounts the story of an ambitious teacher who takes her students out to the streets of New York to learn about its culture and history. These students ask to see the nearby Hudson River. When they get to the river's edge, one student says, " Look, the river is flowing up." A second student says, "No, it has to flow south-down." Upon further research, the teacher discovers "that the Hudson River is a tidal river,

04:28:51 decimation: that it flows both north and south, and they had visited the exact spot where the tide stops its northward push." "

04:28:59 decimation: "In Dreams, written two years later, Obama takes an unlikely detour to the exact spot on the parallel East River where the north-flowing tide meets the south-flowing river. There, improbably, a young black boy approaches this strange man and asks, "You know why sometimes the river runs that way and then sometimes it goes this way?" Obama tells the boy it "had to do with the tides." "

04:29:04 decimation: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2009/05/who_wrote_dreams_and_why_it_ma_1.html

04:29:05 assbot: Articles: Who Wrote Dreams and Why It Matters ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBryBb )

04:29:54 asciilifeform: when the idea of ghostwriting is even thinkable, we know we're dealing with a class of muppets.

04:30:23 asciilifeform: which muppet wrote what - is approximately as interesting, imho, as which nigerian spammer penned which particular spam template.

04:30:25 decimation: asciilifeform: it seems the idea of 'not ghostwriting' is unthinkable with modern political types

04:30:44 asciilifeform: these people do not even -have- identities

04:31:10 decimation: I find it fascinating that a human can be invented from whole cloth, and then inserted into the political ladder

04:31:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imagine reading a book ghostwritten for me.

04:31:51 asciilifeform: l0l

04:31:54 mircea_popescu: "wrote for mp by xxx"

04:32:05 mircea_popescu: i think i'd read it lol.

04:32:31 asciilifeform: decimation: pelevin had an sf story about a team of folks who create politicians, 'public intellectuals', 'most wanted terrorists', etc. from whole cloth for mankind.

04:32:38 asciilifeform: complete with 3d films

04:32:44 mircea_popescu: the latter is the fbi neh

04:32:55 asciilifeform: it was turned into a very passable film, 'generation p'

04:33:04 asciilifeform: ('поколение п')

04:33:10 asciilifeform: mega-recommended, lulzy.

04:33:18 asciilifeform: there is a set of english subs floating about.

04:34:09 asciilifeform: i do not think there is a better film version of the ru 1990s that 'p'.

04:34:11 asciilifeform: *than

04:34:42 decimation: asciilifeform: did you ever watch 'the president's analyst''?

04:34:49 asciilifeform: nope

04:34:54 asciilifeform: but it is on list

04:34:58 asciilifeform: i recall it was mentioned.

04:35:38 decimation: it's amusing as well

04:38:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100550 @ 0.00029818 = 29.982 BTC [+]

04:40:08 asciilifeform: also unrelated, the ESP8266 mentioned last night is a very interesting item.

04:40:14 asciilifeform: $1 or so in quantity.

04:40:40 mircea_popescu: it is isn't it

04:40:49 asciilifeform: ~50MHz 32-bit (oddball architecture) cpu, tcp/ip implemented in hardware, can address via spi (as in sd card) external eeprom.

04:41:27 asciilifeform: if i had any reason to believe that these did not have magic-packet anal hole circuits, i'd be buying by the kilogram.

04:41:55 mircea_popescu: so fuzz them!

04:41:59 mircea_popescu: all scripted, yeah ?

04:42:04 mircea_popescu: i recall someone telling me...

04:42:10 asciilifeform: 'testing can prove existence but not absence...'

04:42:14 mircea_popescu: lol

04:42:40 mircea_popescu: i9t's still not a bad thing to drop a paycheck into.

04:43:58 asciilifeform: very much leads into the ancient dream of 'p2p relay you can superglue to undersides of parked cars and other vandalisms'

04:44:16 asciilifeform: - run on thermal gradient

04:44:17 mircea_popescu: yup.

04:44:28 asciilifeform: for open air applications - solar+supercap

04:44:29 mircea_popescu: it WOULD run on the gradient of exhaust

04:44:29 asciilifeform: etc.

04:44:36 asciilifeform: certainly would

04:44:37 mircea_popescu: because 70mW and fast wake

04:44:50 asciilifeform: when vehicle is parked, on gradient b/w ground and cooling engine.

04:45:06 mircea_popescu: moreover, put a cap in it anyway.

04:45:07 asciilifeform: (the wild cats in my neighbourhood run on this energy)

04:45:11 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:46:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally : best way to find out of magic packeted or not - actually deploy it as p2p relay as described. once wash dc is full of them you'll find out alright.

04:46:22 asciilifeform: futher in the 'vandal' theme, i will point out that it is not difficult to build a very cheap apparatus for climbing up walls with a few dozen grams' payload, quickly.

04:46:33 asciilifeform: climb up, then break tube of cyanoacrylate glue.

04:47:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can more easily imagine a 'jobs program' where monkeys with triangulolocators climb walls and scrape by hand.

04:47:23 decimation: asciilifeform: one trouble is that open wifi is not easy to find these days

04:47:40 asciilifeform: i will also add that we have an even odder curiosity here. an ancient, possibly first-of-its-kind wireless net called 'ricochet'

04:47:50 asciilifeform: consists of small gadgets attached to light poles

04:48:04 asciilifeform: the firm went thoroughly broke, through - iirc - embezzlement - long, long ago

04:48:06 asciilifeform: in late '90s

04:48:10 asciilifeform: but the boxes still work!

04:48:14 decimation: asciilifeform: I've seen something similar to old 'ricochet' network: wireless meter reading nodes

04:48:20 asciilifeform: there are a dozen just within range of where i sit now

04:48:23 asciilifeform: they answer pings

04:48:33 asciilifeform: decimation: where i live meters have gsm modems.

04:48:59 decimation: asciilifeform: that's one form, but some use 'mesh networking'

04:49:35 asciilifeform: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~anrew/250b/ricochet.jpg << ricochet modem

04:49:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBtTfx )

04:50:43 asciilifeform: http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8053/8446817062_dfc4392577_o.png << the repeaters.

04:50:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBu1M8 )

04:51:03 decimation: asciilifeform: what would be useful wrt this ESP8266 would be if one could modify the waveforms it used

04:51:08 asciilifeform: the backhaul nodes which connected these things to the ordinary net, naturally died years and years ago.

04:51:30 asciilifeform: decimation: aha. as it is, it is very much pegged into the traditional 2.4G band.

04:52:03 asciilifeform: http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/ricochet << historical.

04:52:20 decimation: it would be amusing to toy with 'ricochet'

04:52:25 *: asciilifeform was, for a while anyway, the owner of a ricochet repeater which 'fell off a pole'

04:52:54 asciilifeform: it had a xilinx spartan 1st ed. fpga inside. and was built like a tank.

04:53:02 asciilifeform: you could easily drop it from airplane and would survive.

04:53:14 asciilifeform: virtually all of the boxes in my city - still work.

04:54:13 asciilifeform: and, interestingly, no one hurries to remove them.

04:54:34 asciilifeform: (for one thing, it is unclear who, precisely owns them, and the contract for their emplacement - iirc - was perpetual, somehow)

04:55:08 decimation: I wonder if some entity gobbled up those 'assets' and is preventing their removal

04:55:19 asciilifeform: -someone- knows.

04:55:30 asciilifeform: just like -someone- knows who owns that house down the street from where i sit

04:55:47 decimation: asciilifeform: can't you look it up in public records?

04:55:48 asciilifeform: but not the city, not the (long-gone) last inhabitant, nor.,,,

04:56:02 asciilifeform: decimation: apparently not. special sticker of 'no one knows who owns'

04:56:24 asciilifeform: though the last time i walked by, sticker was - gone

04:56:30 asciilifeform: evidently the crown made a gift, to someone.

04:56:42 asciilifeform: of this broken-title 'ownership' of pirate treasure.

04:58:44 asciilifeform: phun phact: ricochet was non-exportable on account of fairly respectable crypto.

04:59:00 asciilifeform: and considerably cheaper than virtually all other net access available at the time.

04:59:11 asciilifeform: so it of course had to die 'because reasons.'

05:01:27 decimation: as I recall, it was 'first to market' - well before mobile phone data plans were reasonably available (for non-bezzle price)

05:02:33 mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of the little toy : i wouldn't mind putting a few coins behind a project dedicating to actually creating an array of p2p relays operated "alegally" in the manner described (glued to peoplke's cars without their knowledge).

05:02:38 mircea_popescu: if anyone wishes to undertake it...

05:02:44 mircea_popescu: ima put it on fraudsters too, once it's back up.

05:03:14 mircea_popescu: this is phase 1. phase 2 is when we target all the cars ever seen parked by a nsa building. give meta-nsa something to fret about.

05:03:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have a largely complete design for this and 5 other similar items, will confess.

05:03:31 asciilifeform: for some time.

05:03:58 asciilifeform: mega-issue with all publicly-accessible p2p (and inescapably low-capacity) nets is ddos.

05:04:05 mircea_popescu: let them ddos.

05:04:26 mircea_popescu: and feel free to publish your design on the unfairly neglected blog eh ?

05:04:31 asciilifeform: not even by bureaucrats, but by the first fool who loads 'youtube'

05:04:35 mircea_popescu: thermal power unit, + cap ?

05:04:51 mircea_popescu: it does not HAVE TO work with http.

05:04:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: first concept was solar, cap, and wall climber / glue.

05:05:07 mircea_popescu: no. thermal, cap and glue.

05:05:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: second was thermal

05:05:37 mircea_popescu: the parasithic nature and the strict contempt of "law" it displays are essential for its success.

05:05:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: drew this up, in some detail, in '03-04.

05:06:17 asciilifeform: at one point even wrote a grant proposal (laugh) suggesting use in savage lands, etc

05:06:26 mircea_popescu: well... it's what's happening.

05:06:33 mircea_popescu: la serenissima is deploying it in savage lands.

05:06:53 asciilifeform: spoke with al s. once re: oceanic variant

05:06:54 decimation: I've thought about a small mechanical generator that could be attached to a swaying tree

05:06:58 asciilifeform: (bottles, thermoclines)

05:07:18 mircea_popescu: decimation a;lso interesting, for different situation

05:08:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097986 << mit has little credit to claim there. all socialist states produce this variety exactly.

05:08:05 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:56:07; asciilifeform: revoltingly studious think-in-the box bitches, just as you might imagine

05:08:15 *: asciilifeform knows

05:08:55 asciilifeform: organism inescapable for the niche

05:09:00 asciilifeform: like the mold that grows in public toilets

05:09:07 asciilifeform: somehow - same.

05:10:20 decimation: 'speaking power to truth'

05:11:04 mircea_popescu: http://wiki.infosyncratic.nl/ << lawl this is for you decimation

05:11:05 assbot: Infosyncratic Wiki - InfosyncraticWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymWjZQ )

05:11:29 mircea_popescu: http://infosyncratic.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/david-sengeh-xmas-2.jpg << you only hate her because miscegenation, i bet.

05:11:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymWnZJ )

05:11:44 asciilifeform: http://www.gotenna.com/pages/how-it-works << commercial product, claimed. but begs question, why the pNohe is needed.

05:11:45 assbot: How goTenna works ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymWmVD )

05:12:16 decimation: is that related to that nadya peek chick

05:12:27 asciilifeform: to ricochet

05:12:52 asciilifeform: (ricochet modems could connect with one another without repeater, and i briefly searched if classical 'radiomodem' is still sold by anyone)

05:13:03 mircea_popescu: decimation yes.

05:13:07 asciilifeform: as in, gadget that directly links two machines over simple radio

05:14:16 mircea_popescu: http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/863.08/people/nadya/week1.html < good for a chuckle.

05:14:17 assbot: how to make almost anything ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymWAvG )

05:14:52 mircea_popescu: "It needs to be portable, therefore battery powered." << box.

05:14:54 decimation: you can listen to her being interviewed by the annoying australian here: http://www.theamphour.com/208-an-interview-with-nadya-peek-gallant-gcode-gerontology/

05:14:55 assbot: An Interview With Nadya Peek - Gallant Gcode Gerontology | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymWDrt )

05:15:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and this creature is rich, while good men die in butugychag.

05:15:15 mircea_popescu: so ?

05:15:20 mircea_popescu: fairness is not on the agenda.

05:15:30 asciilifeform: so.

05:15:45 mircea_popescu: let good men take an axe to heir head, what.

05:16:00 asciilifeform: 'axe-time, sword time, ...' (tm)

05:16:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098006 << you mean el/es/itevator.

05:16:56 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 03:06:58; asciilifeform: and there is to be one in every office, lab, bus, train, - elevator.

05:16:58 decimation: yes, this seems like perfectly satisfactory course work for a phd student in engineering/'fabbing'

05:17:04 mircea_popescu: also tr/br/hrain.

05:18:00 mircea_popescu: decimation in the endless words of george, "you will note that i am in the smaller office!"

05:18:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098008 << yes.

05:18:53 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 03:07:18; felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I love this article: http://fraudsters.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/ do you keep this opinion?

05:19:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098014 << well, i hired (and paid, upfront) two different hosts. neither has managed to provisdion server yet.

05:19:23 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 03:08:43; asciilifeform: felipelalli: it was unplugged (see mircea_popescu's explanation last night) and evidently not yet rehosted.

05:19:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, im sure htey'll get around to it eventually.

05:20:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098020 << you read the bit about why lisp company failed btw ?

05:20:44 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 03:14:45; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: can't speak for others, but i refuse to consider the leaking turd usable in any sense whatsoever.

05:21:16 asciilifeform: which bit

05:22:14 decimation: re: smaller office < note that one disadvantage that mit has is that because they are taken superficially as 'the hotness', they probably encounter very little negative feedback on obviously fucktarded behavior

05:22:23 mircea_popescu: linked here today

05:23:43 *: asciilifeform up to date with log, but is not certain what is being spoken of

05:23:53 decimation: asciilifeform: re: gotenna < yeah I don't get why phone is needed either. why not simple 4 line lcd with 'thumb keyboard'?

05:24:10 mircea_popescu: 1 sec lemme dig it out

05:24:10 asciilifeform: did someone link to the ancient 'symbolics, death of heterogeneous engineering' essay ? and i didn't notice

05:24:30 asciilifeform: decimation: because 'reasons.'

05:24:35 decimation: also, it appears to be vaporware

05:25:09 asciilifeform: decimation: can't say, i did not try to buy it

05:25:25 decimation: also I'm not sure that the rf band they are using is actually legal for that purpose

05:26:04 asciilifeform: wasn't even able to find immediately what they claimed to use.

05:26:12 asciilifeform: lost interest quickly after seeing the pNohe

05:26:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes that one. http://www.web.mit.edu/6.933/www/Symbolics.pdf

05:26:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymXNmK )

05:26:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ancient paper

05:26:38 asciilifeform: not entirely wrong, either

05:26:39 mircea_popescu: so is the ancient failure it discusses.

05:26:46 asciilifeform: but incomplete picture.

05:26:56 mircea_popescu: "(4) When I was on the front line, trying to sell Lispms, we had a major problem. I'd try to sell Lispms to friends and former associates that cost a minimum of $90K, and generally $105K out-the-door. They were typically given $120K to buy computers. This left them with a choice of purchasing 1 Symbolics machine or 3 Xerox Dolphins. They generally selected the 3 Dolphins. Our cost for the keyboard was $3,200 and our co

05:26:57 mircea_popescu: st for the monitor screen was $8K (at least that was what I was told). My recollection was that the manufacturing cost of a Symbolics machine was over $40K. Hence, about one-third of the cost of a machine was the keyboard, mouse, and display. I told people within Symbolics to consider using a dumb display as the front-end (something like a Datapoint terminal). I can remember one employee telling me something like "if p

05:26:57 mircea_popescu: eople can't appreciate why the machine is the way it is then they're stupid." Unfortunately, the potential buyers desired (drooled) to have them but few could afford them."

05:27:01 mircea_popescu: compare and contrast with

05:27:01 decimation: in order to sell such a thing legally in the us, you must explictly gain usg's permission, after suitably demonstrating that it works as claimed

05:27:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098020

05:27:16 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 03:14:45; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: can't speak for others, but i refuse to consider the leaking turd usable in any sense whatsoever.

05:27:47 mircea_popescu: decimation and if you don't care to "sell it legally" what happens ?

05:28:09 mircea_popescu: they gonna send some agents to confiscate imaginary bitcoin which then doesn't exist because "the agents stole it" ?

05:28:10 asciilifeform: depends on whether anyone buys.

05:28:24 mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone directly realises what epic self decapitation the dpr was for the usg.

05:28:26 decimation: mircea_popescu: fcc can and has send agents to seize your supply of device

05:28:45 asciilifeform: or more elementarily, they confiscate the usd with which you are to buy rent and food.

05:28:50 mircea_popescu: what agent is EVER going to wish to go work on a case where the emperor has dclared "huge value", wioth the full knowlerdge that if the value is somehoiw missing he will be imputed it anyway ?

05:28:51 asciilifeform: and then go and enjoy.

05:29:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've not actyually used a bank since i'm here.

05:29:23 mircea_popescu: enjoying it fine.

05:29:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not need bank aboard atomic dirigible

05:29:28 asciilifeform: why would he.

05:29:55 mircea_popescu: you know, that dirigible is mostly an urban legend ?

05:29:58 decimation: we little folk need usd to survive

05:30:06 mircea_popescu: notably, i once picked up a us chick who at the time was engaged to be married.

05:30:17 mircea_popescu: guy declared "golden helicopter"

05:30:32 mircea_popescu: decimation cash comes in all denominations.

05:31:02 decimation: http://www.mediageek.net/2006/01/micro-transmitter-manufacturer-fined-by-fcc/

05:31:05 assbot: Micro-Transmitter Manufacturer Fined by FCC - mediageek ... ( http://bit.ly/1aFeoqF )

05:31:16 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> guy declared "golden helicopter" << i bet savages do believe that an airplane flies on account of some compact talisman contained therein

05:31:18 decimation: http://www.eham.net/articles/243

05:31:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1aFesqo )

05:31:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ikr ?

05:31:35 mircea_popescu: i was pretty amused at the notion, on multiple fronts.

05:31:41 asciilifeform: it isn't even strictly false - go pull out a wire

05:31:46 decimation: mircea_popescu: I suspect that many usians go their whole life without touching non-usd currency

05:31:52 asciilifeform: but not in the way the pygmy imagines

05:32:04 mircea_popescu: decimation cmon, some euros, something.

05:32:11 decimation: nope

05:32:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu probably does not entirely apprehend the degree to which various folks in usa, myself included, are already in a sharashka. we work for scrip, every penny of which is centrally accounted for, incoming and out

05:33:01 *: mircea_popescu remembers old day, after a two week "if it's tuesday, it's belgium" thing, at 4am in train station guy pouring ~kig and half of coins into a beggar's lap.

05:33:07 mircea_popescu: "shit, im not sorting all these"

05:33:09 decimation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-d-chalmers/the-great-american-passpo_b_1920287.html < "The real story is that when broken down, those 25.8 million trips overseas were taken by approximately just 13.3 million American residents. And that means that in total, the real number of Americans that actually traveled (took trips) overseas in 2009 for either business or leisure, was about 15.5 million --o r just five percent of our

05:33:11 assbot: The Great American Passport Myth: Why Just 3.5% Of Us Travel Overseas! | William D. Chalmers ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymYsVh )

05:33:11 decimation: nation's 311 million residents!"

05:33:13 mircea_popescu: > 10 different types of pennies etc

05:33:45 asciilifeform: half the folks i work with, iirc, don't have - ever had - passports.

05:33:55 mircea_popescu: decimation 5% each year, 100% in 4 five year plans, comrade!

05:34:00 decimation: heh

05:35:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00029818 = 10.1679 BTC [+]

05:36:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you create unaccounted revenue, what.

05:36:55 asciilifeform: and spend on 100kg instead of 10kg of potato at the market ?

05:37:52 asciilifeform: (leaving deliberately aside the question of how a full-time slave is to create 'unaccounted revenue' worth mentioning)

05:37:56 mircea_popescu: well... trade, whatever.

05:38:07 *: decimation imagines what would happen if he tried to pay for groceries with euros

05:40:15 mircea_popescu: im kinda curious in a scholarly way exactly what sort of outrage would incentize teh usg to go back on its "principal home can not be seized" approach to things.

05:40:23 mircea_popescu: "but he owes 547869857694579459 in FCC fines" "tough"

05:40:32 mircea_popescu: "but he made a blog post laughing at us for it" "oh... ok then!"

05:40:56 decimation: asciilifeform: ah, the 'gotenna' uses MURS http://www.radioworld.com/TabId/64/Default.aspx?ArticleId=271827

05:40:58 assbot: Radio World: Examining the “goTenna” Communications Device ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymZaC9 )

05:41:40 mircea_popescu: "Now we can address the contention that children are innately curious. They are not in the sense used here - they are tinkerers. The commonplace observation that children have short attention spans is direct refutation of the notion that they are creative and curious in any deep sense. The tragedy of our society is not that so many people outgrow their childlike curiosity, but that so few do. The adult equivalent of ch

05:41:40 mircea_popescu: ildlike curiosity is channel surfing and the ten-second sound bite."

05:41:42 mircea_popescu: ahh oldies...

05:42:09 asciilifeform: its "principal home can not be seized" approach to things << wut?!

05:42:17 decimation: yeah I don't get it

05:42:18 asciilifeform: this is, afaik, a curiosity confined to certain states

05:42:25 asciilifeform: (fl, a few others)

05:42:28 asciilifeform: not usa at large

05:42:44 mircea_popescu: ah, is it ?

05:42:46 asciilifeform: iirc.

05:42:50 asciilifeform: (ianal!)

05:43:17 mircea_popescu: www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/0947036.pdf afaik

05:44:00 asciilifeform: even if this, if chump cashes in his house, usg can seize

05:44:07 asciilifeform: so he cannot eat his house.

05:44:09 decimation: in practice, if usg wants to move you out of your house, they just freeze your accounts and bleed you with fines

05:44:23 mircea_popescu: wel lsure.

05:44:29 mircea_popescu: he could let someone live there, obviously.

05:44:49 decimation: in some states, local inspectors must approve rental properties

05:44:54 asciilifeform: the basic principle of a jail is that it is absurd to reason about 'jailer can do xxx but not yyy to the inmates.' he can always find a way to yyy.

05:45:03 asciilifeform: might take a bit of finesse, but you will be yyyd.

05:45:41 decimation: just like it's absurd to claim that 'in a democracy, government can do xxx but not yyy'

05:45:47 asciilifeform: same idea.

05:46:47 mircea_popescu: apparently it just needs to ask for permission (from a usg magistrate - improperly called a judge for the obvious reasons)

05:47:49 mircea_popescu: "Article X, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution exempts homestead property from levy and execution by judgment creditors."

05:47:54 mircea_popescu: seems you're right eh.

05:47:59 mircea_popescu: in the constitution no less. interesting.

05:48:01 mircea_popescu: !up PFate

05:48:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i only remembered the fl tidbit because paul graham blamed it for 'lack of startup culture in fl'

05:48:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232650 @ 0.00029833 = 69.4065 BTC [+] {2}

05:48:39 decimation: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vU6cSmWP1UAJ:www.ci.azusa.ca.us/index.aspx < example "Why does the City have a Rental Inspection Program?For years the City responded to complaints from tenants, other nearby rental property owners,

05:48:40 assbot: Rental Property Ordinances and Inspections What is the Rental Housing Inspection Program? The program is based on an ordinance w ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymZX5X )

05:48:41 decimation: and residents about the lack of property maintenance on many rental properties...blah blah"

05:48:47 decimation: "consumers have come to expect"

05:48:50 asciilifeform: (how is chump supposed to borrow $xxxxxx to fund chumpup if not by pawning house)

05:49:14 mircea_popescu: heh.

05:49:29 asciilifeform: this is a quaint anachronism, even

05:49:35 asciilifeform: chumps had something to pawn, imagine!

05:49:37 mircea_popescu: this is the libertard verbiage as to why king abolished proper title. "the drunkard nobles wanted to be able to sell!!1"

05:49:41 mircea_popescu: !up dooglus_

05:49:45 decimation: "rental homes should be safe for women at night in slut wear"

05:49:54 mircea_popescu: shouldn't they ?!

05:50:08 decimation: gov't inspectors will find out!

05:50:48 mircea_popescu: "Florida Constitution does not protect homestead property against tax liens, homeowner association mechanic?s liens associated with labor or materials to repair or improve the homestead property, and voluntary liens including mortgages and homeowner association liens. "

05:50:49 mircea_popescu: ahem.

05:51:16 decimation: lol well then what does it protect against?

05:51:19 asciilifeform: what's left, l0l

05:51:20 decimation: claims by local ants?

05:51:53 asciilifeform: more or less, strictly bans voluntary pawning.

05:51:58 asciilifeform: and nothing else.

05:52:20 decimation: let freedome ring

05:52:57 mircea_popescu: "and voluntary liens including mortgages"

05:53:15 asciilifeform: must've been added post-pg ?

05:53:21 mircea_popescu: basically it means that if old bitty runs down your new car with her beater,

05:53:32 mircea_popescu: you can't get your money back by selling her house.

05:53:36 asciilifeform: aha.

05:53:40 asciilifeform: hard to picture what else.

05:54:13 decimation: actually I heard another interesting podcast today that is related > http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2006/09/legislators_vs.html

05:54:14 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1yn0BjL )

05:55:04 decimation: unfortunately no transcript. the relevant point was about how the constitution was 'reinterpreted' during the new deal years to mean that the 'equal protection under law' clause doesn't apply to actual laws

05:55:24 decimation: as long as there is a 'reasonable basis' for the law (as in, usg can provide any reason whatsoever"

05:56:04 mircea_popescu: all constitutions are constantly reinterpreted. see discussion about the bbs above.

05:56:27 mircea_popescu: this is why a constitution is fundamentally a joke. if you have the men that you need for it to work, you don't need it. if you don't have them, it's useless anyway.

05:56:32 mircea_popescu: like a marriage contract, exactly.

05:56:38 decimation: yes, indeed

05:56:40 asciilifeform: during and after 'new deal', american constitution and derived 'law' became approximately as interesting as the soviet constitution.

05:56:54 mircea_popescu: soviet constitution was notbad.jpg

05:57:00 asciilifeform: precisely

05:57:01 mircea_popescu: from the pov of the hostile preditor, of course.

05:57:06 asciilifeform: but for some odd reason no one reads it now.

05:57:20 mircea_popescu: whether outside or in. the scribblings of the mental patient - informative.

05:57:31 mircea_popescu: because nothing left to eat.

05:57:36 mircea_popescu: preditors don't care about dirt.

05:58:03 decimation: actually the soviet constitution is exactly an excercise in 'process determines outcomes'

05:58:30 decimation: on paper, democracy blooms. in practice, party secretary is the tzar

05:58:30 mircea_popescu: you read the thing ?

05:58:35 decimation: I've read summaries

05:58:41 mircea_popescu: hm

05:58:42 *: asciilifeform recommends.

05:59:00 asciilifeform: but only to serious 'psychoceramicists.'

05:59:12 mircea_popescu: http://constitution.garant.ru/history/ussr-rsfsr/1977/ ?

05:59:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yn17yo )

06:00:05 asciilifeform: that'd be brezhnev's

06:00:05 decimation: the detail I recall is the vast pyramids of committees and soviets that each 'advise' the next layer

06:00:10 mircea_popescu: the soviets, of course, were a federation

06:00:14 asciilifeform: the mega-classic is stalin's

06:00:20 asciilifeform: '36.

06:00:25 mircea_popescu: much like the us. except the soviets making up the soyouz actually had more autonomy than wisconsin

06:00:40 asciilifeform: considerably more, in practice.

06:00:44 mircea_popescu: mhm

06:00:46 *: decimation took a class on soviet politics in undergrad, but it wasn't terribly informative

06:01:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes brejnev's. which one, the pre war ?!

06:01:31 asciilifeform: aha

06:01:33 mircea_popescu: there wasn't anything in between was there ? stalin didn't dare.

06:01:49 asciilifeform: '36 was 'stalin's' but notably not

06:02:13 asciilifeform: the muppet who penned the bulk of it (buharin) went to the meat grinder

06:02:13 mircea_popescu: eh ?

06:02:44 asciilifeform: whole thing was a production of the 'chrome' sov. gov. that had little relation to actual decision-making

06:02:53 decimation: surely even stalin had to pretend that he was operating the structure installed by lenin and his friends on kronstadt

06:03:31 asciilifeform: by and large the pretence was an elaborate and - to the amateur, scarcely-comprehensible - mega-kabuki

06:04:07 asciilifeform: not entirely unlike usg.

06:04:14 decimation: asciilifeform: surely the average peasant couldn't be much bothered to distinguish between comrade joe and tzar nikolai?

06:04:45 asciilifeform: (where, for instance, 'laws' tens of thousands of pages long will 'pass' without any one living creature having read so much as a tenth of the text, etc)

06:05:26 asciilifeform: decimation: there is a popular anecdote where stalin is said to have visited his elderly mother, who tried to comprehend what he does 'for a living'

06:05:45 decimation: rob banks?

06:05:49 asciilifeform: and ended up having to mumble 'something like tzar's old job'

06:06:00 decimation: heh

06:07:34 decimation: so who gave a fuck about whatever the local soviet declared? folks who wanted to climb the power structure?

06:09:02 asciilifeform: even phrasing the question in this way - is to miss the point

06:09:18 asciilifeform: what is declared, is at most masking smoke for the actual decision.

06:09:26 asciilifeform: or could coincide entirely

06:09:50 asciilifeform: like the blinkers of one car, standing in a long jam, can appear to synchronize with another's

06:09:59 asciilifeform: but uncoupled, is the fundamental part.

06:10:27 asciilifeform: the apparatus-of-state-as-distraction thing is not even specifically soviet

06:10:39 asciilifeform: ru empire was governed this way, since at least peter 1

06:10:52 decimation: usg is tending in that direction too

06:11:11 asciilifeform: usg was pure, refined 'this' since day 1.

06:11:37 asciilifeform: since gang of plantation keepers formed 'democratic' chrome on their actual decision mechanisms

06:12:13 decimation: yes, but usg has been very successful at brainwashing the masses into believing its bullshit

06:15:01 decimation: but I think this is failing too. how many us folk believe that throwing their sons into the us military 'intervention' wood chipper is actually helping anyone other than the power-mad staffers in washington?

06:18:40 chetty: most of the founding fathers were from the north, not many plantation keepers around Boston

06:20:03 decimation: chetty: the ones from virginia certainly kept plantations

06:28:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139800 @ 0.00029815 = 41.6814 BTC [-]

06:28:45 chetty: decimation certainly, even as far north as Maryland but I don't think it was the majority

06:58:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26387 @ 0.00029864 = 7.8802 BTC [+]

07:28:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 332100 @ 0.00029903 = 99.3079 BTC [+] {2}

08:25:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67800 @ 0.0002958 = 20.0552 BTC [-] {3}

08:36:38 mircea_popescu: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/ o.O

08:36:40 assbot: 503 File is Temporarily Unavailable ... ( http://bit.ly/1aFCL7R )

08:37:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.0002998 = 16.1892 BTC [+] {2}

08:40:13 mircea_popescu: <chetty> most of the founding fathers were from the north, not many plantation keepers around Boston << at what time, this ?

08:47:55 mircea_popescu: "Harriette Halepis is a journalist by trade. Her work can be seen in Vegetarian Times, Seacoast Living, Success Magazine, Alive Magazine, and various other online and offline publications."

08:48:40 mircea_popescu: journalist as opposed to indian battery chicken, i guess. "i cluck at the keyboard just like the wetbacks, but in not being a wetback i get to call myself a journalist. by trade!"

09:17:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226300 @ 0.00030005 = 67.9013 BTC [+]

09:30:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220600 @ 0.00028934 = 63.8284 BTC [-] {2}

09:47:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 276900 @ 0.00029404 = 81.4197 BTC [+]

09:47:23 chetty: <mircea_popescu> <chetty> most of the founding fathers were from the north, not many plantation keepers around Boston << at what time, this ?//founding fathers = circa 1770

09:47:38 mircea_popescu: they had plantations back then

09:48:18 chetty: not so much in the north, northern farms were small

09:48:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167400 @ 0.00028871 = 48.3301 BTC [-] {2}

09:59:20 mircea_popescu: plimoth plantation ?

10:02:49 chetty: way a village

10:19:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 306453 @ 0.00028805 = 88.2738 BTC [-] {3}

11:03:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71345 @ 0.00029279 = 20.8891 BTC [+]

11:07:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 270 @ 0.01499255 = 4.048 BTC [+] {3}

11:49:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103600 @ 0.00029279 = 30.333 BTC [+]

12:48:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 353700 @ 0.00029927 = 105.8518 BTC [+] {4}

12:50:50 mats: Fun fact: Media companies (or contractors thereof) are doing vuln research on media players in order to plant bug-triggering media files on warez sites.

12:51:29 mats: e.g. they have a VLC bug that causes it to use terabytes of memory

12:53:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 228653 @ 0.00028797 = 65.8452 BTC [-] {2}

12:58:51 mats: on Windows the common codecs formats means that 99% of users would be running a 32-bit version of both the video player and the codecs

12:59:23 mats: ofc, on x64 Linux the oom killer catches it

13:16:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80147 @ 0.00028721 = 23.019 BTC [-]

13:17:36 mats: and on the subject of media, four episodes of this season's Game of Thrones have been leaked

13:50:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164953 @ 0.00028623 = 47.2145 BTC [-]

14:17:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 157500 @ 0.00030023 = 47.2862 BTC [+]

15:08:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80600 @ 0.00028829 = 23.2362 BTC [-] {2}

16:14:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00029653 = 16.7836 BTC [+]

16:48:40 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla for you qntsideration : http://dpaste.com/24H8HKN.txt

16:48:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PAOHIh )

16:48:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:49:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173000 @ 0.00029663 = 51.317 BTC [+] {2}

16:49:59 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo and yours! : http://dpaste.com/2YK4CMA.txt

16:50:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PAOODO )

16:50:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:56:16 pete_dushenski: "Toyota Venza volume peaked in the model’s first full year at 54,410 units. Two years later, in 2011, Venza sales slid 28%. Last year, U.S. Venza volume was barely more than half what it was in 2009." << oh hey look pete killed the venza with his cartoon drawings in 2011

16:56:24 pete_dushenski: reference : http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/25/a-retrospective-on-six-years-in-the-car-blogosphere/#footnote_10_2563

16:56:26 assbot: A retrospective on six years in the car blogosphere | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1PAPpFo )

16:56:38 pete_dushenski: should add this to ma cv or something

16:56:59 asciilifeform: <chetty> not so much in the north, northern farms were small << most of the powerful northern figures were, in some way or another, connected with the slave trade or the cotton business in general

16:57:38 asciilifeform: it having been the only really serious business in that part of the world, at the time.

17:01:19 asciilifeform: http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module << has photograph of die

17:01:22 assbot: How to Directly Program an Inexpensive ESP8266 WiFi Module | Hackaday ... ( http://bit.ly/1PAQ1Lh )

17:24:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103800 @ 0.00029582 = 30.7061 BTC [-]

17:54:38 mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/x0pSHS2.gif

17:54:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1aGPZRP )

17:54:57 mircea_popescu: and in other news, jesus CHRIST has the world decayed since I last looked for a host.

17:55:24 mircea_popescu: apparently nobody actually still does anything anymore. just watch tv all day or something.

18:12:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65500 @ 0.00028731 = 18.8188 BTC [-]

18:24:51 jurov: kinda souds right

18:24:54 jurov: *sounds

18:24:58 mircea_popescu: nuts.

18:25:36 jurov: i have serious doubts myself, why bother messing around at all?

18:25:42 mircea_popescu: I just... never looked for a webhost since at least 2002, been using pretty much the same outfit since.

18:26:10 mircea_popescu: this entire "we've been sitting on an order for 36 hours" thing is entirely novel. no idea when it came in, but it strikes me as outlandish.

18:27:04 mircea_popescu: jurov i dunno dood, for money, cause it's what you do... the world was built by men who enjoyed working.

18:28:00 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, some wikipedia top keks : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka?xuma_N?pika

18:28:01 assbot: Kaúxuma Núpika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nv8Jp2 )

18:28:12 mircea_popescu: GREAT WOMEN IN HISTOREE. a confused squaw we now deem important!

18:28:23 jurov: they had to neva some other cause, perhaps believed their children appreciate it or such

18:28:31 jurov: *to have

18:30:05 trinque: the world's too comfortable; goes back to the thread yesterday about whether being self-taught is a thing

18:30:16 trinque: subset of "being self-directed at all is a thing"

18:30:37 mircea_popescu: one can only be self-directed if one's ego can stfu for long intervals.

18:30:54 jurov: i kinda ran out of problem i feel the need of solving

18:31:02 jurov: *problems

18:31:17 jurov: not sure how it is possible

18:31:24 mircea_popescu: yea ? how about webhosting ?

18:31:35 jurov: not my problem

18:32:01 mircea_popescu: trinque this pointedly excludes "creative people", obv. the sad story of WBs animation studio post quimby vs pre is a fine illustration there.

18:32:08 mircea_popescu: jurov how do you define a problem ? just curious.

18:32:16 jurov: something that bothers me

18:33:00 mircea_popescu: kinda how i go about it too.

18:33:07 mircea_popescu: inexplicably, i end up with unmanageably lengthy lists.

18:33:08 trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah, creative people, entrepreneurs. In my case I've been self-directed for the larger part of the last 5 years, but I wouldn't credit myself with having provided all the motivation to go down that route.

18:33:37 trinque: other men in my family did things that still tower above my own achievements, so I have something to compare myself with

18:34:24 jurov: i have noticed both mircea and alf show irreconcilable hate for certain things, maybe it's a prereq?

18:35:56 jurov: i can't persist and doubt everything

18:36:09 mircea_popescu: it's not even hate, to be technical. it's more like "this may not even exist".

18:42:19 mircea_popescu: lol "qntsideration". nb.

18:43:10 mircea_popescu: jurov meanwhile, while we've been having this conversation, there's been one of those open air concerts going on right under my window. the women can not sing. i mean... the tune is not even close, it's like zappa's "the beat goes on, and you're so wrong..." stuff.

18:43:43 mircea_popescu: they're doing covers of shitty elevator music, all of it in english (or should i say their lords and masters over the faulklands ?), and they don't get the words right or even rightly apprehend what anything means.

18:44:14 mircea_popescu: and people are like, squaling in delight, there's thunderous applause... "forever young" hasn't got this bad a mangling since the last tiem a drunk dude in wichita sung it at a karaoke

18:44:44 mircea_popescu: very strange world.

18:45:40 mircea_popescu: o wait, they're doing "we will rock you" now.

18:46:04 mircea_popescu: amps should be a restricted fucking export. buncha native retards and their cargo cultishness bejeezuz.

18:50:58 trinque: this morning I got a bunch of 2fa texts from circle; I wonder if they have an undiagnosed bug leaking customer info

18:51:37 mircea_popescu: you being a customer ?

18:51:45 trinque: one with an empty account, yeah

18:52:32 mircea_popescu: maybe it's their idea of a retention strategy.

18:52:40 trinque: heh, reminds me I have the account?

18:52:52 trinque: it worked! reminded me to close the account

18:54:44 mike_c: trinque: it's even viral. now I am reminded to close my account too.

18:54:48 trinque: heh!

18:55:07 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:55:38 mircea_popescu: what is this "close account" stuff you folks are talking about ?

18:56:02 trinque: mircea_popescu: we tell circle to mark a bit to 0 in their db, and they keep our info for all time

18:56:07 mircea_popescu: it says right here in paragraph obama subsection nobody could have foreseen : fuck you, if you have an account you didn't make that account.

18:56:14 trinque: lol

18:56:30 trinque: speaking of him, this chatter is something I'm seeing on more accounts than just circle

18:57:25 mircea_popescu: i wonder if mr "if you have a stanford you didn't go to that stanford" / "if you have a presidency your parents didn't make you in that country" / "if you had an insurance you can no longer have an insurance" even realises what his memory is going to look like

18:58:13 mircea_popescu: "hi, i am obama and for a while there I was a bad meme."

18:58:17 trinque: mircea_popescu: they probably give him pills to help with that

18:58:44 mircea_popescu: teh old cocaine eyedrops ? perhaps.

19:00:05 mircea_popescu: amusingly, after bitching above, just got email from one of the folks involved apologizing profusely. so which one of you dudes runs godmodehost ?

19:00:16 mircea_popescu: admit, there's no shame to it.

19:01:52 decimation: mircea_popescu: why do the 'natives' there sing low quality us pop music instead of performing their own stuff?

19:01:59 decimation: for instance, latin jazz

19:02:19 mircea_popescu: because aspirational idiots.

19:02:24 mircea_popescu: it's a generational problem.

19:02:49 mircea_popescu: the stupid have no country.

19:03:20 decimation: my understanding is that latin jazz was inspired by shortwave broadcasts of us jazz

19:03:22 trinque: probably as simple as "because they gorge on our shitty entertainment, like the morons everywhere"

19:03:22 mircea_popescu: hence why "globalisation" is the necessary end game of a "the many matter"

19:04:05 mircea_popescu: decimation i have no idea, maybe it has. if that's the case then your answer is "because THIS stupid generation is different from THAT one."

19:04:24 decimation: well, at least the last generation took what they heard and remixed it to something somewhat unique

19:04:35 mircea_popescu: yes. they could also spell their own name.

19:04:38 decimation: heh

19:04:50 jurov: decimation, imported is flashier

19:05:09 mircea_popescu: in fairness, as far as pop music is concerned, not understanding what the lyrics say is a net plus.

19:05:14 jurov: was happening for a very loong time in ostblok

19:05:35 mircea_popescu: jurov only after the economic race was lost, mind.

19:05:42 mircea_popescu: was not really happening that much in the 60s.

19:05:49 decimation: jurov: many have noted that western liberalism is much more concerned with 'the other' than with themselves

19:06:01 jurov: at least in czechoslovakia, it *was*

19:06:25 jurov: in 1960s

19:06:31 mircea_popescu: was that not just natural "look to vienna" for the kingdom of bohemia ?

19:06:34 trinque: decimation: how does that square with the rampant narcissism?

19:06:58 jurov: more like general setup if things, you prolly did not get radio luxembourg in ro

19:07:24 decimation: trinque: easy. 'the distant other' always happens to agree with your own liberalizing views

19:07:35 mircea_popescu: ^

19:07:39 trinque: makes sense

19:07:48 mircea_popescu: "the other" is a puny excuse for the ego to escape the superego.

19:08:03 trinque: american buddhists come to mind

19:08:06 mircea_popescu: hence the automatic "we" every idiot drops to the moment i get my club.

19:08:24 mircea_popescu: jurov i guess that could also be it.

19:08:45 decimation: jurov: surely they received it on shortwave

19:09:07 decimation: but I'm not sure how many people in eastern eu countries had shortwave receivers

19:09:19 mircea_popescu: lots lol.

19:09:38 mircea_popescu: man's most prized possession. like kalash in pashtunland.

19:09:54 jurov: yes, everyone had. and first mass available magnetophones appeared

19:13:28 decimation: magnetophones? tape players?

19:13:48 jurov: yes, tape reel players

19:14:03 jurov: and recorders

19:14:26 jurov: (same machine, you couldn't get one that could not record)

19:15:15 jurov: interesting that govt did not regulate them at all, unlike photocopiers

19:15:40 jurov: tape was seemingly never used for political purposes

19:16:01 jurov: it bit them to ass when videotapes came, tho

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: isn't this odd, think about it ?

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: you had to "register" your typewriter. kids didn't have to register their magnetophone.

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: does this not suggest that the ACTUAL REASON adults "had to" register their typewriters was because they wanted to have to ?

19:18:57 felipelalli: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098408 << mircea_popescu nice!! Thanks! Great article, congrats.

19:18:57 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 05:18:53; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098008 << yes.

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: like a retarded native american would have taken it to the shaman to be exorcised ?

19:18:57 decimation: mircea_popescu: yes that seems reasonable

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: like the retarded native americans go through the tsa anal gefingerpoken so as to be clarified of their sins ?

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: i said this before, but perhaps not as clearly : no totalitarian state oppressed the people. ever.

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: the people seek certain forms, and the bureaucracy follows.

19:18:57 mircea_popescu: no bureaucracy EVER did anything. it has as much agency as rain.

19:20:28 trinque: mircea_popescu: always a very small number of whichever govt officials compared to the total populatio

19:20:31 trinque: *n

19:20:45 decimation: mircea_popescu: you see this in the us with the ambiguity usg shows toward spying in general

19:20:47 mircea_popescu: no dude. hitler didn't "force germans". buncha bored women wanted it. all of it.

19:20:55 mircea_popescu: they were treying to get the russians to rape them and found a way.

19:21:18 decimation: 'the people' desperately want to believe that there is a secretly competent branch of usg saving them from themselves

19:21:45 mircea_popescu: the us population fundamentally wishes to be deeply humiliated by the entire world. it's what they're doing over there.

19:21:54 mircea_popescu: why us army hasn't been allowed to win a war since the 60s at least.

19:22:10 mircea_popescu: just... abjection. it's a lot more psychologically attractive than most people dare to admit.

19:22:48 decimation: yes, and it's seen as noble because it embiggens 'the other' in the third whom they idolize

19:23:08 trinque: perhaps that, also guilt

19:23:33 mircea_popescu: guilt schmuilt.

19:23:37 trinque: we are taught (though this is of course delusional) that we're supposed to be this force of GOOD (TM) in the world

19:23:38 mircea_popescu: nobody feels any guilt.

19:24:15 trinque: then why the drive towards abjection?

19:25:13 mircea_popescu: abjection is its own reward.

19:25:40 trinque: because then they're at least important enough to bother humiliating?

19:26:24 mircea_popescu: not even.

19:26:28 mircea_popescu: no because.

19:29:01 mircea_popescu: "That Lakota men did not like to be called "heart of a woman" in council meetings is less likely to mean that women were regarded as inferior than that the warrior's role was sharply set off from the woman's role". Check it out, both the Lakota and Hassrick managed to figure it out!

19:29:01 *: trinque puzzles

19:31:16 trinque: so this abjection drive is a matter of female psychology?

19:36:37 []bot: Bet placed: 4 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 31.29172615 BTC. Current weight: 82,496.

19:37:47 decimation: !up ascii_modem

19:38:11 ascii_modem: magnetophone apolitical?! l0l no

19:39:39 ascii_modem: and

19:39:56 ascii_modem: not registered only because tech did not allow

19:40:12 decimation: but the tech allowed registration of copiers?

19:40:14 ascii_modem: them to be told apart easily, as typewrtrs

19:40:21 ascii_modem: trivial

19:43:51 mircea_popescu: !up beetcoin

19:45:27 decimation: "Even though history does not have laws, the course of a revolution is easily foreseen, because stupidity and madness do have laws. (#2,222)" http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/11/2222.html

19:45:29 assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #2,222 ... ( http://bit.ly/1FCyLm3 )

19:45:42 mircea_popescu: aha.

19:47:03 *: decimation suspects that the longer one resides in south america, the more one would come to appreciate herr colacho

19:47:50 mircea_popescu: "Aun cuando la historia no tenga leyes el curso de una revoluci?n se prev? f?cilmente, porque la estupidez y la demencia s? las tienen."

19:47:54 mircea_popescu: dementia != madness, ftr.

19:48:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11712 @ 0.00028731 = 3.365 BTC [-]

19:48:16 decimation: not in the 'crazy old men sense, no'

19:48:50 decimation: ;;dict demented

19:48:54 gribble: wn: demented adj 1: affected with madness or insanity; "a man who had gone mad" [syn: {brainsick}, {crazy}, {demented}, {disturbed}, {mad}, {sick}, {unbalanced}, {unhinged}]

19:49:01 mircea_popescu: sure, the dysfunctional us "dictionaries", really properly wikitionaries have everything equal. (demencia passion locura furia) = (insanity crazyness madness

19:49:07 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, this is not how languages work.

19:49:38 mircea_popescu: decimation no. demented is different from mad in that one lacks the intellect whereas the other has a malfunctioning intellect. the alzhimer patient is demented but not mad.

19:49:50 mircea_popescu: the active schizophrenic is mad but not demented.

19:50:03 mircea_popescu: lack of intellect is in fact predictable.

19:50:13 decimation: 'mens rea'?

19:50:52 mircea_popescu: that's teleological in usage. but perhaps there's something long forgotten to the etymology.

19:55:27 jurov: btw, is there a fraudsters piece about how to maintain endless lists of "things that are not to exist" without becoming mad in the process?

19:59:08 mircea_popescu: well we don't know i'm not nuts, for one thing.

19:59:33 mircea_popescu: but for the other, how do you maintain the list of endless things that are not letters ?

20:01:15 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098693 not sure if "unmanageably lengthy" is distnct from endless

20:01:15 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 18:33:07; mircea_popescu: inexplicably, i end up with unmanageably lengthy lists.

20:01:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098658 << send a copy to ben_vulpes

20:01:17 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 16:56:38; pete_dushenski: should add this to ma cv or something

20:01:22 mircea_popescu: he's keeping THAT endless list :D

20:01:51 mircea_popescu: jurov it is, being still (blessfully) finite.

20:03:19 jurov: i did not mean to split hairs there :) so it goes like, you get upset, add it to the list while maybe breaking the keyboard or two and life goes on?

20:03:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 294360 @ 0.00028563 = 84.078 BTC [-] {3}

20:03:52 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

20:03:59 mircea_popescu: but look at the way i read, it's illustrative.

20:04:22 mircea_popescu: i couldn't finish hayek because he was stupid. think about that, hayek of all people. if hayek is stupid what chance do we have ?

20:04:40 mircea_popescu: but the fact remains, i keep reading through, stupid accumulates, eventually overrurns my (short) buffer and i drop it.

20:04:50 mircea_popescu: plenty of web content makes it one phrase in.

20:05:08 mircea_popescu: seeing how stupidity is not self-healing, i don't even need to keep the list per se. just read another sentence later.

20:06:13 jurov: i just shrug it and try to forget.. guess i need to unlearn that

20:06:38 mircea_popescu: either that or perfect the skill, shrug and try to be a rock or something.

20:06:51 mircea_popescu: halfway i imagine it's frustrating and ineffectual.

20:08:19 jurov: it is

20:08:50 mircea_popescu: "welcome, driving class. today, we learn how to accelerate the car. next week, we'll learn steering and braking."

20:14:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 320150 @ 0.00028451 = 91.0859 BTC [-] {2}

20:17:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1098660 << actually, tobacco first.

20:17:09 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 16:57:38; asciilifeform: it having been the only really serious business in that part of the world, at the time.

20:17:11 mircea_popescu: then sugar cane

20:17:14 mircea_popescu: THEN cotton.

20:17:43 mircea_popescu: but the original northern colonists (south didn't exist, like oregon didn't exist during civil war) ran exactly the equivalent of the southern plantation,

20:17:52 mircea_popescu: except for tobacco, and with white slaves.

20:18:33 mircea_popescu: it was common practice to pick up children off the street / take the children of people living on the dole and send them over.

20:18:51 mircea_popescu: regularly children as old as 12 are listed as "servants". girls, mostly.

20:19:26 mircea_popescu: in fact, even the puritans, even on the mayflower, for all the pretense to contrary, shipped a total of four children that had been stolen from a gentry woman in england, against hte mother's wishes. three died the first winter there.

20:20:28 mircea_popescu: the woman's husband wanted to end the fee tail on the woman's dowry estate, and did not wish to entertain her children (which she had with a guy she actually liked, about her age), and so ... had his friend teh lord of the cinque ports declare them slaves, and they got sent where slaves went in 1500.

20:23:07 decimation: not to mention indentured servitude

20:23:42 decimation: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3664862/The-forgotten-history-of-Britains-white-slaves.html

20:23:45 assbot: The forgotten history of Britain's white slaves - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1FCFs7A )

20:23:59 mircea_popescu: i suppose the us owes reparations to britain.

20:24:04 decimation: "Two were "Negro slaves", but the other eight were white servants, including Thomas Pearce, a 20-year-old Bristol joiner, and William Webster, a middle-aged Scottish brick-maker. Whether they were ever found remains a mystery; almost nothing is known about them but their names. But their irate master was to become very famous indeed, for the man pursuing his absconding servants was called George Washington."

20:24:10 mircea_popescu: then again... they did give them a buncha shit.

20:24:49 decimation: well, the colonies were a nice place to 'disappear' all kinds of crazies

20:24:54 mircea_popescu: decimation the fact remains that slavery is generally productive, and in some circumstances the only practicable alternative.

20:25:23 mircea_popescu: that it's badmouthed by the lazy, and that the encyclopedists pushed this angle where the late failure is presented as pars pro toto reporesentative... well.

20:25:39 mircea_popescu: what if i started an encyclopedia presenting the current state of "web development" as indicative of what computing science is ?

20:25:55 mircea_popescu: "even the slave masters themselves agreed slavery is a bad idea".

20:26:00 decimation: heh

20:26:01 mircea_popescu: duh. badly done, yes. it is. of course it is.

20:26:04 mircea_popescu: so is badly done coffee.

20:26:48 decimation: note that the above mentioned indentured servants volunteered, probably because of bankruptcy

20:26:55 mircea_popescu: "volunteered".

20:27:01 mircea_popescu: women voluntarily married at the time, too.

20:27:10 decimation: hehe good point

20:27:27 mircea_popescu: heck, the french conscripts of the french republicalso volunteered

20:27:40 decimation: at any rate, I'm off for awhile

20:27:53 mircea_popescu: the fact that the medical science of detecting imaginary maladies never got such a boost before or since notwithstanding.

20:28:11 mircea_popescu: one should still wonder why would record numbers of malingerers seen in a thorouhgly voluntary force.

21:17:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53170 @ 0.00028433 = 15.1178 BTC [-]

21:24:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.00028312 = 20.0166 BTC [-]

21:39:50 mats: the popular retelling of american history is terribly freedomwashed

21:40:19 mats: see: Daniel Day Lewis' role in Lincoln (2012)

21:41:43 mats: like lincoln ever gave a shit about emancipating the negros ... rather than driving them into revolt, resistance, and generally disrupting the southern economy

21:48:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147238 @ 0.00028312 = 41.686 BTC [-]

22:01:03 mircea_popescu: so it is.

22:01:39 mircea_popescu: pious fraud. no history was ever told any other way, because the principal driver behind history as a human behaviour is exactly what Chillum was describing re his involvement in wikipedia.

22:01:45 mircea_popescu: people by and large aspire to matter.

22:02:05 mircea_popescu: what happened in an incidental

22:28:21 mats: but i want to hear more about what the wikipedia admins are talking about in their private channel

22:30:23 mircea_popescu: so join.

22:38:58 mats: /s

22:57:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159127 @ 0.00028275 = 44.9932 BTC [-]

23:17:54 jurov: !t m s.mpoe

23:17:54 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00028275 / 0.00029231 / 0.00030023 (5983782 shares, 1,749.15 BTC), 7D: 0.00023945 / 0.00027914 / 0.00031364 (27602244 shares, 7,705.08 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00027661 / 0.00036126 (118782551 shares, 32,857.45 BTC)

23:17:59 jurov: !t m s.qntr

23:17:59 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00029451 / 0.00029451 / 0.00029451 (3228 shares, 0.95 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00031994 / 0.00037719 (61690 shares, 19.74 BTC)

23:18:12 jurov: !t m f.mpif

23:18:13 assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000206 / 0.000206 / 0.000206 (10000 shares, 2.06 BTC), 7D: 0.000206 / 0.00020605 / 0.000207 (10600 shares, 2.18 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020605 / 0.000207 (10600 shares, 2.18 BTC)

23:19:10 ben_vulpes: http://www.wsj.com/articles/can-they-be-accepted-as-a-singular-pronoun-1428686651

23:19:11 assbot: Can ‘They’ Be Accepted as a Singular Pronoun? - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1FNijN1 )

23:21:18 jurov: nice, it includes not just trannies, but split/absent personalities, too

23:22:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00028603 = 7.5655 BTC [+] {2}

23:24:18 *: Adlai discussed just this very issue over dinner with a university professor

23:24:30 Adlai: and he was all... "ultimately, it's all bullshit"

23:49:11 ben_vulpes: i'm just going to use it as a filter, the same way i filter against men who button the top button of their shirt when not wearing a tie.

23:58:53 []bot: Bet placed: 2.1 BTC for No on "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.055139 BTC. Current weight: 88,379.