home | log | search | bash |


   

Transcript for 12-09-2015, 1064 lines:

00:12:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00074209 = 12.1703 BTC [+]

00:19:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37543 @ 0.00074758 = 28.0664 BTC [+] {5}

00:28:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00074209 = 16.5486 BTC [-] {3}

00:52:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25405 @ 0.00073722 = 18.7291 BTC [-] {3}

00:53:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00073264 = 10.3669 BTC [-]

00:57:46 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you've got mailz

00:57:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:07:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00074432 = 11.3881 BTC [+] {4}

01:12:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00074916 = 17.6053 BTC [+]

01:17:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00074959 = 25.1487 BTC [+] {4}

01:42:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00073264 = 8.2056 BTC [-]

01:51:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.0007323 = 22.3718 BTC [-] {3}

01:56:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75450 @ 0.00075006 = 56.592 BTC [+] {6}

02:01:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89300 @ 0.00075122 = 67.0839 BTC [+] {6}

02:33:25 pete_dushenski: @realDonaldTrump: "I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th."

02:38:28 *: asciilifeform l0lz re: the only #b-a fella who gives a flying fuck re: u.s. election being a canadian

02:38:54 pete_dushenski: hehe 'impartial observer'

02:39:02 pete_dushenski: no 'skin in the game'

02:58:08 pete_dushenski: http://rmsothebys.com/lf15/london/lots/1995-bugatti-eb110-super-sport/1076871 <--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3An1XcXWoeA

02:58:10 assbot: 1995 Bugatti EB110 Super Sport | London 2015 | RM Sotheby's ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lp1M2g )

02:58:11 assbot: Bugatti EB110 SS - Chris Harris on Cars - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lp1Kav )

02:58:25 pete_dushenski: ^ what a cool million buys in the used car market these days.

03:04:25 pete_dushenski: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-great-nedeflorena-show/#comment-115315

03:04:26 assbot: The great Nedeflorena show on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lp21dw )

03:04:47 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy article btw

03:12:10 pete_dushenski: "There is widespread belief that violence in poorly governed countries is triggered by international demand for their natural resources. We study the consequences of U.S. legislation grounded in this belief, the “conflict minerals” section of the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act. Targeting the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo, it cuts funding to warlords by discouraging manufacturers from sourcing tin, tungsten,

03:12:11 pete_dushenski: and tantalum from the region."

03:12:23 pete_dushenski: "Using geo-referenced data, we find the legislation increased looting of civilians, and shifted militia battles towards unregulated gold mining territories. These findings are a cautionary tale about the possible unintended consequences of boycotting natural resources from war-torn regions, and the use of international resource governance interventions."

03:12:54 pete_dushenski: bwahaha "possible unintended consequences." only POSSIBLE !!1

03:16:23 pete_dushenski: "The evidence suggests the legislation significantly increased the incidence of looting and the incidence of violence against civilians by at least 291 and 143 percent respectively."

03:18:03 pete_dushenski: granting that epidemiology is hard to follow (obligatory http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/19/epidemiology-is-hard-to-follow/), the 'let's blockchain the proud nation of africa'-ists can stuff this in their pipes and smoke it.

03:18:05 assbot: Page not found | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lp36SQ )

03:20:35 pete_dushenski: page not found eh.

03:24:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40221 @ 0.00074195 = 29.842 BTC [-]

03:24:57 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you around ? can you educate me on what the nytimes is referring to here : "The schematics, prosecutors said, revealed the design of a device known as a pocket heater. The equipment is used in semiconductor research, and Dr. Xi had signed an agreement promising to keep its design a secret."

03:25:14 pete_dushenski: trying to make sense of this. seems like good qntra material.

03:25:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00074011 = 20.6491 BTC [-]

03:30:00 pete_dushenski: ;;nethash

03:30:01 gribble: 460177092.439

03:31:22 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: niche thing.

03:31:59 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the overall moral of the story is more interesting - expect a generalized 'spymania' in usa; accusations of 'wrecking' will become a regular thing.

03:32:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-04-2015#1117127 << as in this

03:32:19 assbot: Logged on 30-04-2015 22:04:14; mircea_popescu: you know, the "wrecker" who was "trying to make the train tracks run down faster"

03:33:20 pete_dushenski: "using too much concrete and trying to bankrupt the great state" vs. "using too little concrete and jeopardising the security of the great state"

03:33:20 pete_dushenski: aha

03:33:59 pete_dushenski: ok ima write this up for qntra then

03:34:00 pete_dushenski: thx

03:35:03 asciilifeform: http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/09/11/temple-professor-charges-dropped << has the document

03:35:04 assbot: Government Drops Charges Against Chinese-Born Temple Prof | News | Philadelphia Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oktcvo )

03:35:32 pete_dushenski: nice :)

03:35:33 asciilifeform: http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/05/22/temple-physics-chair-charged-with-passing-tech-to-china << has the indictment.

03:35:34 assbot: Temple Physics Chair Charged With Passing Tech to China | News | Philadelphia Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Okti6i )

03:36:26 asciilifeform: oh and,

03:36:31 asciilifeform: ianal, but breach of nda is a civil matter in usa.

03:37:05 pete_dushenski: makes sense

03:37:06 asciilifeform: i can see how they might have tried to nail him for misappropriation of pentagon money

03:37:12 asciilifeform: but that is not what he was accused of

03:38:08 asciilifeform: the indictment is for fraud

03:39:31 asciilifeform: note the attached 'civil forfeiture' action on last page.

04:09:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37698 @ 0.00073152 = 27.5768 BTC [-] {3}

04:10:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15502 @ 0.00073081 = 11.329 BTC [-] {2}

04:27:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14162 @ 0.00073885 = 10.4636 BTC [+]

04:42:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00074214 = 16.6239 BTC [+] {2}

05:03:45 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla qntra for ya :) http://dpaste.com/3A6Y046.txt

05:03:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6DfoL )

05:03:46 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:05:16 pete_dushenski: Bingo_VACAY: i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you're away atm and that there's no point in sending you the same piece

05:05:26 pete_dushenski: !up Bingo_VACAY

05:24:16 mircea_popescu: "4. You think it?s pretty unfair that women effectively work from 4 November until the end of the year for free because of the gender pay gap; and that female managers ?work for free? for nearly two hours a day; and that the pay gap is even wider for women of colour and disabled women."

05:24:18 mircea_popescu: eh the fucking bullshit.

05:24:26 mircea_popescu: women ACTUALLY TAKE NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER OFF!

05:24:34 mircea_popescu: it's not that they show up to work and still take home less money.

05:24:42 pete_dushenski: more bater eh.

05:25:14 mircea_popescu: it's that they do not show up for work, they get the same per hour pay (which on the strength of that alone they should not, for the record, as i'm not paying the same an hour the guy who works 16 hours and the gal that works 6.5) and so logically at the end of the year they get less.

05:25:25 mircea_popescu: holy shit this fatass notion of equality for some things only.

05:30:16 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddtw6uMNoo << more equalitarianism : fatknee'd naomi klein

05:30:17 assbot: Classic Ali G Show compilation - Best bits - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6E54X )

05:32:42 mircea_popescu: "i used to be an entrepreneur but then i took a fatter to the knee"

05:36:07 mircea_popescu: http://phys.org/news/2015-09-israeli-mini-scanner-food-pills.html on the vaguely interesting fishwrapper front.

05:36:08 assbot: Israeli mini-scanner tells what's in food, drink or pills ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6EdRV )

05:40:41 punkman: "does not need physical contact with the substance being tested because it uses a beam of light in what is known as Near Infrared Spectroscopy."

05:40:50 punkman: they did this scam on kickstarter already

05:41:57 pete_dushenski: http://phys.org/news/2015-09-snapshot-americans-knowledge-science.html << lulz found while browsing same site

05:41:58 assbot: A snapshot of Americans' knowledge about science ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6Eog1 )

05:43:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14050 @ 0.00073081 = 10.2679 BTC [-]

05:43:13 punkman: oh the israelis are also on kickstarter

05:45:04 mircea_popescu: myeah

05:45:34 cazalla: pete_dushenski, done

05:46:00 deedbot-: [Qntra] Xiaoxing Xi isn't a Chinese spy after all - http://qntra.net/2015/09/xiaoxing-xi-isnt-a-chinese-spy-after-all/

05:46:17 pete_dushenski: huzzah

05:48:35 mircea_popescu: I think that the real situation in American mathematical education is even worse than TIMSS shows

05:48:35 mircea_popescu: because TIMSS followed the anti-theoretical bias of American educators. By ?theory? I don?t mean

05:48:35 mircea_popescu: anything too advanced. Let me give an example. When I was in high school, we studied the quadratic

05:48:35 mircea_popescu: function in a rather complete manner. In particular it was obligatory for all Russian schools to teach

05:48:37 mircea_popescu: children to derive the formula for roots of a quadratic equation ax2 + bx + c = 0 , to prove that the

05:48:40 mircea_popescu: sum of roots equals −b/a and that their product equals c/a and to use these facts to factorize the

05:48:43 mircea_popescu: trinomial. Most American students whom I ever met were not even aware of most of these facts.

05:48:45 mircea_popescu: lord have mercy... what DO they do ?

05:48:53 mircea_popescu: nothing says 9th grade quite like b/2a

05:50:44 mircea_popescu: " E.g., my graduate students in differential geometry could calculate quite hard integrals to know the area or the length of a curve but were not able to answer the question what the geometric sense of the roots of the quadratic equation x^2 − 2Hx + K = 0 is, where H and K are the average and the Gaussian curvature of a surface."

05:50:54 mircea_popescu: i mean for fucks sake, what's even the point of knowing math like that

05:50:58 mircea_popescu: what's the fun in this ?

05:52:53 pete_dushenski: http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/science-knowledge/ << "The median was eight correct answers out of 12 (mean 7.9). The data show that adults with higher education levels are more likely to answer questions about science correctly. Men score an average of 8.6 out of 12 correct answers, compared with women's 7.3 correct answers.Whites score a mean of 8.4 items out of 12 correct, compared with 7.1 among Hispanics an

05:52:54 assbot: Science Knowledge Quiz | Pew Research Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6ELqP )

05:52:54 pete_dushenski: d 5.9 among blacks.

05:54:17 mircea_popescu: blacks are doing worse in 2015 than they did in 1965.

05:54:31 mircea_popescu: thank you mustachjioed nigger what's his name, you totally helped those people

05:54:48 pete_dushenski: only 6% of 'representative sample' correctly answered all 12 questions

05:54:59 pete_dushenski: mlk jr.

05:55:05 mircea_popescu: more million man marches plox, clearly they fix problems.

05:57:57 mircea_popescu: https://secure.img-cdn.mediaplex.com/0/3484/177243/300x250_paypal_core_safer_faster_en_acq_v2.jpg << holy shit paypal is actually buying advertising now!

05:57:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6EW5r )

05:58:25 mircea_popescu: fuckers are gonna die.

05:59:12 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3grpEuAamfA << misses first bit of clip, but gist remains

05:59:13 assbot: Family Guy - (S2xE8) Million Man March - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6EZ14 )

06:01:38 mircea_popescu: heh

06:08:07 mircea_popescu: "When I came to America, I taught several classes of problem solving and started to appreciate much more the basic education, because my new students dramatically lacked it. They understood advanced ideas but floundered in algebraic transformations, which turned solution of interesting problems into painful struggle with basics."

06:08:07 mircea_popescu: Oh, god. Such pain and suffering. When I took usian slavegirls, attempts to discuss art and philosophy and so forth quickly floundered over a basic inability to remember sentences and build logic trees, which resulted in beatings and many tearful hours spent over grammatical analysis of sentences. Something they should have spend their 12th and 13th year of life on, back before anyone could possibly want to fuck them,

06:08:07 mircea_popescu: under the guard of some old prune too dessicated to fuck them in the first place. Not waste MY fucking time with it.

06:14:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1270990 << this is fucking ridiculous.

06:14:00 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 03:24:57; pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you around ? can you educate me on what the nytimes is referring to here : "The schematics, prosecutors said, revealed the design of a device known as a pocket heater. The equipment is used in semiconductor research, and Dr. Xi had signed an agreement promising to keep its design a secret."

06:14:17 mircea_popescu: so : some chemical reactions are strongly exothermic (they give out heat). aluminum salts chief among them.

06:14:46 mircea_popescu: the idea to use this as a heat source is older than the aeroplane. i had perfectly functional schematics in books published in the fucking 60s.

06:15:24 mircea_popescu: the utility of the process in various industrial lines is due to the relative high heat, readily controllable total energy and relatively low latency.

06:15:43 mircea_popescu: it is, however, very inefficient (ie, costs a lot more per joule than pretty much any alternative)

06:17:58 mircea_popescu: "The idea to teach fractals in school has already found many supporters. (Everything is possible for those who are not competent enough to understand how difficult it is.)" << heh. "But fractals are cool man, like the universe's all connected and everything"

06:18:36 pete_dushenski: "it's the game ~within~ the game, bro"

06:18:46 mircea_popescu: "I asked several school teachers who were enthusiastic about teaching fractals to define a fractal and none of them mentioned the idea of dimension, least defined it. Usually they emphasized ?repeating patterns?. When I asked why they were not satisfied with wall-paper, they took offence." << yes, because who needs to take a breather and think when they could take offence instead and flail!

06:19:03 mircea_popescu: but yes, the man has a point. fractals aren't for everyone. just like bitcoin isn't for everyone.

06:19:39 mircea_popescu: if you want fractals, first go away and get rich i mean, figure out what a number is, then come back

06:20:39 mircea_popescu: (i am not even all that keen on toom's obviously very geometric take on fractals. they're an analytic construct, which yes can be graphed, like any other function. you don't need "dimensions", you need numeric theory.)

06:24:01 mircea_popescu: "The authors of ?standards? want to reform American mathematical education, but actually only aggravate its main shortcoming: vain ambitions and contempt for consistent, systematic and thorough study." << this is a societal problem. Obama is not an accident, but an archetype.

06:24:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37217 @ 0.0007426 = 27.6373 BTC [+]

06:26:05 mircea_popescu: but since toom mentioned the fractal problem, let us consult the web. because the web knows shit, right ? all human knowledge, accessible to everyone etc, right ?

06:26:20 mircea_popescu: "fractal Definiciones web Un fractal es un objeto geom?trico cuya estructura b?sica, fragmentada o irregular, se repite a diferentes escalas. El t?rmino fue propuesto por el matem?tico Beno?t Mandelbrot en 1975 y deriva del Lat?n fractus," blablabla.

06:27:09 mircea_popescu: "as? ?por qu? no papel pintado ?"

06:27:13 mircea_popescu: crickets.

06:27:26 mircea_popescu: deafening crickets. or should i say grillos.

06:27:37 mircea_popescu: but perhaps the spanish speakers are retarded, right ?

06:27:51 mircea_popescu: "Fractal -- from Wolfram MathWorld mathworld.wolfram.com/Fractal.html‎ A fractal is an object or quantity that displays self-similarity, in a somewhat technical sense, on all scales. The object need not exhibit exactly the same structure ..."

06:27:54 mircea_popescu: fucking spare me already.

06:28:45 mircea_popescu: the geometric notion of the point, and the geometric notion of a line, and the geometric notion of a plane, and the geometric notion of wolfram's mother impaled on a triple cheeseburger ALL SATISFY THIS DEFINITION

06:29:38 mircea_popescu: not to mention that the number 1, as well as the number 0 and the number 78 are "self-similar" on all scales, in a technical sense or not.

06:30:06 mircea_popescu: and so is f(x) = x/this guy's IQ. for crying out loud.

06:35:25 mircea_popescu: "A fractal is a natural phenomenon or a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale." via en.wikipedia. or in fucking definitions, THIS IS ALLOWED NOW!

06:35:35 mircea_popescu: in what fucking alternate universe may a definition include the word "or"

06:36:07 mircea_popescu: "natural phenomena" ? "pattern" ? bejesus.

06:36:47 mircea_popescu: "A fractal is a figure with repeating patterns containing shapes that are like the whole but of different sizes throughout."

06:37:25 mircea_popescu: "An object whose parts, at infinitely many levels of magnification, appear geometrically similar to the whole. Fractals are used in the design of compact antennas and for computer modeling of natural-looking structures like clouds and trees."

06:37:28 mircea_popescu: the internet is fucking useless.

06:37:58 mircea_popescu: From: Boris Subject: Fractals What is the definition of a fractal?

06:38:16 mircea_popescu: From: Doctor Douglas Subject: Re: Fractals Hi Boris. The key idea in the definition of fractal is "self-similarity". What this means is that the object looks the same no matter what power magnifying glass you use to view it.

06:38:25 mircea_popescu: doctor in eating roadkill, this douglas.

06:38:50 mircea_popescu: "A fractal is a never-ending pattern" quoth "fractalfoundation.org".

06:38:51 mircea_popescu: scammers.

06:39:02 mircea_popescu: jesus fucking christ no english speaker can produce a definition of this concept.

06:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17851 @ 0.00074525 = 13.3035 BTC [+]

06:41:58 mircea_popescu: see, this is the problem. we go around like we're all people and shit. but then some of us go home to where we know what fractals are, and some of us go to whatever that is, where they don't.

06:42:11 mircea_popescu: and with this observation, the world as observed suddenly makes significantly more sense.

06:47:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00074607 = 7.8337 BTC [+]

06:51:28 mircea_popescu: (ironically, the concept can be correctly introduced - if one's willing to take the geometric route, and in so doing miss out on most understanding available in the topic - by first explaining what a tangent is and then demaning a closed continuous curve be drawn that allows no tangents. good enough for a bright 12yo, plus minus. but otherwise, fractals are of analytical rather than geometrical interest.)

06:53:22 mircea_popescu: (and if you're doing that, pretty much every bright 12 yo kid has been playing mentally with the peano curve while taking a shit and following the tiling, but didn't know it's called that. so you could of course tell him.)

06:54:24 mircea_popescu: (and once you've done that you're right over on cantor's doorstep and so forth. this might even be the best way to even introduce numbers altogether.)

06:57:48 mod6: not even close to done yet, but these ascii graphs look kinda neat: http://dpaste.com/3DBXKQX.txt

06:57:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VT455b )

07:02:19 mircea_popescu: o hey mod6 !

07:02:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23919 @ 0.00074859 = 17.9055 BTC [+] {2}

07:02:25 mircea_popescu: cool stuff

07:02:42 mod6: thx, havin some fun :]

07:03:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17766 @ 0.0007521 = 13.3618 BTC [+]

07:05:58 mod6: I created this basic svg graph map of all vpatches to modified files. lol, thing is huge. ridiculous looking.

07:07:47 trinque: ^ restart test

07:08:49 mod6: nice

07:09:27 trinque: gonna fiddle with it a bit, but yeah, I'm getting a little observer going that'll go kick him in the ass when appropriate

07:09:42 mircea_popescu: but ipso custodes!

07:10:15 trinque: weechat seems to do better about knowing when to reconnect

07:10:38 trinque: so this will keep the guy going until I find time to write a better IRC handling core

07:13:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00073959 = 29.1029 BTC [-] {3}

07:14:32 *: mod6 to bed, have a nice evening all.

07:14:42 trinque: gnite

07:14:43 mircea_popescu: In fact, even the term ?word problem? is not used in Russia, because the word ?problem? usually means a word problem, while non-word problems are called ?exercises?. << exactly correct ftr. the difference was even enshrined as such, in the ro equiv of "standards" cca 60s.

07:19:17 mircea_popescu: and so all the books were called "exercitii si probleme" or "probleme si exercitii"

07:19:38 mircea_popescu: ;;google "exercitii si probleme"

07:19:39 gribble: Exercitii matematica clasa 3: http://www.123edu.ro/exercitii-matematica-clasa-3; Teste de Matematica | Teste la Limba Romana pentru clasele primare: http://www.123edu.ro/; 1000 exercitii si probleme. Culegere de matematica pentru clasa I: http://www.librarie.net/p/197283/1000-exercitii-probleme-Culegere-matematica-pentru-clasa-Adina-Grigore

07:20:40 mircea_popescu: and of course the lactating mother of all secundary mathematical education in romanian : https://www.scribd.com/doc/178423619/G-Gheba-Exercitii-Si-Probleme-de-Matematica-Pentru-Clasele-v-IX

07:20:42 assbot: G. Gheba - Exercitii Si Probleme de Matematica Pentru Clasele v-IX ... ( http://bit.ly/1VT6AEy )

07:21:10 mircea_popescu: i don't think as many people lived the bible as a whetstone in their life during the whole history of christianity

07:21:25 mircea_popescu: as the headcount of romanian kids toiling with gheba during five decades.

07:27:02 trinque: it does seem that the english speaking world's ability to define anything meaningfully is deteriorating, fractals included.

07:27:27 trinque: I believe you've made the point many times in your work that language creation/alteration is *not* for everyone.

07:27:41 trinque: and that's exactly what we've done, more ways than matter to list

07:34:36 mircea_popescu: im not even sure it's any sort of alteration above and beyond simple decay through disuse.

07:35:23 mircea_popescu: byzantium when it fell to the turks was 4-5 villages lost among pastures surrounded by ancient walls, and american english is similarly a huge complex architecture maitnained by the remnants of a leper colony

07:36:43 *: mircea_popescu is naming his heroes in this game, and he decided all the thieves get stripper names (for obvious reasons) that start with the letter c.

07:36:52 *: mircea_popescu got through ~4 before going to the internet.

07:37:07 *: mircea_popescu discovered he had got candi and candice on his very own!

07:37:12 trinque: haha

07:37:21 trinque: brandi

07:37:22 mircea_popescu: i also have cherysse which apparently is my own invention

07:37:26 mircea_popescu: b is the new c ?

07:37:35 trinque: whoops, lol

07:37:41 mircea_popescu: shit chastity i shoulda thoiught oif that!

07:38:02 mircea_popescu: ty internets. you might not know wtf fractals are, but you certainly spring the goods when it comes to naming strippers.

07:38:09 mircea_popescu: mon etrange oncle l'internet.

07:39:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00075241 = 8.9537 BTC [+] {2}

07:50:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33710 @ 0.00075276 = 25.3755 BTC [+]

07:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9058 @ 0.00075283 = 6.8191 BTC [+]

08:18:01 punkman: ;;later tell asciilifeform my ugly solution to patch conflicts http://dpaste.com/03TADM8

08:18:03 assbot: dpaste: 03TADM8 ... ( http://bit.ly/1L7I4w7 )

08:18:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

08:19:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33600 @ 0.00074423 = 25.0061 BTC [-]

08:35:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00074325 = 17.1691 BTC [-] {2}

08:38:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00074087 = 4.8527 BTC [-]

09:10:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4008 @ 0.00075283 = 3.0173 BTC [+]

09:11:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6992 @ 0.00075346 = 5.2682 BTC [+]

09:27:02 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Nude Nuns With Big Guns - http://fraudsters.com/2015/nude-nuns-with-big-guns/

09:34:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00074815 = 7.3319 BTC [-]

10:03:35 phf: mircea_popescu: iirc that was before ukraine. << that was indeed before ukraine. i saw a few of my well trained, but otherwise bummy friends with "business" go oh well party is over and switch to sberbank financial analyst positions or somesuch.

10:05:57 phf: last time i was there, friends lamented that you can't get real parmesan for real pasta and have to make do with inferior russian knockoffs. if i make it to moscow in the next few weeks, will be curious to see where the whole party is at now.

10:08:03 phf: but splurging on the latest iphone is definitely the last thing on their minds

10:09:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.00075387 = 36.7512 BTC [+] {4}

10:16:50 punkman: http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9628942/if-you-want-a-genuinely-humane-approach-to-refugees-follow-tony-abbotts-australia/

10:16:53 assbot: Turning back refugee boats saves lives - as Australia found out » The Spectator ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpDTrq )

10:17:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35582 @ 0.00075288 = 26.789 BTC [-]

10:18:46 phf: ascii_field: mircea_popescu: go give ben_vulpes a unix and laptop co-designed with it, then he can throw away the crapple << there's three apples in my mind, 90s one, the early 2000s one when programmers migrated from linux to a unix that Just Works, and the post iphone explosion apple. the first two are dead (10.10 is the final reason i froze my setup and migrating my entire stack away). but my point is that maybe you guys are just arguin

10:18:46 phf: g second vs. third

10:23:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7918 @ 0.00075288 = 5.9613 BTC [-]

10:31:34 mircea_popescu: well on the other front, i just got taken to the only actual pizzeria in buenos aires

10:32:05 mircea_popescu: there's >10k dubious establishments that pretend all sorts of things, up to and including HAVING INVENTED THE DAMNED THING, but otherwise never saw one.

10:40:43 cazalla: what is your position on pepperoni on pizza mircea_popescu ?

10:40:55 mircea_popescu: depends on the pizza.

10:40:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10227 @ 0.00074643 = 7.6337 BTC [-]

10:41:41 cazalla: for those who never read (and now watch) maddox on pizza https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=13&v=u5AZhjhbxf8

10:41:42 assbot: Pepperoni is for assholes and idiots. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpF9ut )

10:42:35 phf: you mean like a bell pepper pizza?

10:43:16 punkman: I'd rather have bacon than pepperoni

10:45:37 mircea_popescu: i somehow doubt people who call salami "pepperoni" ever had proper salami anyway.

10:46:36 phf: mircea_popescu: "Fractal -- from Wolfram MathWorld mathworld.wolfram.com/Fractal.html‎ A fractal is an object or quantity that displays " << wolfram's "new kind of science" is all about "this one thing i generated kind of looks like this complicated process, maybe they are related? i feel like they are!"

10:47:03 mircea_popescu: but no, you're not supposed to eat american processed meats, if that's actually what you had in mind. if what you had in mind was actual salami, say with peppercorns or something... sure.

10:47:35 mircea_popescu: phf they can go discover the moscow school of psychology for all i fucking care. idiots.

10:48:45 cazalla: tbh was more trying to bait you into a maddox is the best/worst discussion

10:49:06 mircea_popescu: aok then. F.

10:50:45 mircea_popescu: <phf> you mean like a bell pepper pizza? << absurdly the us figure spicy salami can be propperly called "pepperoni", which is normally a veggie.

10:50:58 punkman: mircea_popescu: so what's your favorite pizza?

10:51:29 mircea_popescu: mmm. i dun think so.

10:52:20 mircea_popescu: most recently i've had white pizza with fried chicken and artichoke and margherita with extra anchovies

10:52:40 cazalla: i'm not even sure if you can buy proper meats like prosciutto down under

10:52:46 mircea_popescu: the former home made because srsly i have never seen a restaurant that made edible white pizza

10:53:14 punkman: white pizza, cream instead of tomato sauce?

10:53:19 mircea_popescu: bechamel

10:53:53 punkman: never seen that in a shop indeed, sounds like a good idea

10:54:17 mircea_popescu: ;)

10:54:38 punkman: I have some kilos of artichoke hearts in the freezer

10:55:28 mircea_popescu: cut the chicken in very long thin strips and butter fry them lightly, can also add sautee'd eggplant

10:55:38 mircea_popescu: (if you sautee the eggplant first, then you use the butter to sauce...)

10:56:14 punkman: kitchen oven usually doesn't cut it for pizza

10:56:31 mircea_popescu: stick a slab of somerock or other in the oven

10:56:51 mircea_popescu: in spite of pretense to the contrary, nobody can tell teh difference.

10:57:16 mircea_popescu: you just can't do it on a metal surface is all.

10:58:48 punkman: not too hard to find a proper stone oven around here, though I don't have one at home

11:07:10 punkman: http://www.sbs.com.au/food/recipes/stuffed-eggplants-bechamel-papoutsakia

11:07:14 assbot: Stuffed eggplants with béchamel | Greek recipes | SBS Food ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ol1O0e )

11:08:50 punkman: and some spanish lulz http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/10/barcelona-fines-banks-60000-for-empty-homes

11:08:51 assbot: Barcelona fines banks €60,000 for empty homes | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ol1WwV )

11:10:05 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIrCnruWEAE8_Dx.jpg:large

11:10:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpGxxo )

11:14:59 mircea_popescu: a classic.

11:15:35 mircea_popescu: (also, the proposed device does not actually work. the female ass is exactly antithetical to the steel ball. negative ricochet factor. fortunately.)

11:43:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8334 @ 0.00074786 = 6.2327 BTC [+]

12:07:13 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271131 <<< <3 weechat

12:07:13 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 07:10:15; trinque: weechat seems to do better about knowing when to reconnect

12:13:54 shinohai: https://twitter.com/CallMePutin/status/642671659619622912

12:46:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32270 @ 0.0007463 = 24.0831 BTC [-] {2}

12:47:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11972 @ 0.00074421 = 8.9097 BTC [-]

12:55:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28958 @ 0.00075536 = 21.8737 BTC [+] {2}

12:56:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10799 @ 0.00075625 = 8.1667 BTC [+] {2}

13:29:09 kakobrekla: ;;later tell trinque this helps ? https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbets/

13:29:10 assbot: BitBet Bets Bets ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpQb31 )

13:29:10 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:35:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24150 @ 0.00075523 = 18.2388 BTC [-]

13:37:14 kakobrekla: ;;later tell trinque to make it easier for you https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/

13:37:14 assbot: BitBet Bets Bets ... ( http://bit.ly/1EU9C7j )

13:37:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:47:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271077 << nono! not THAT pocket heater! this one has nothing to do with the common household object (they are sold for about a dollar in public kiosks in usa)

13:47:45 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 06:14:17; mircea_popescu: so : some chemical reactions are strongly exothermic (they give out heat). aluminum salts chief among them.

13:48:45 asciilifeform: the 'pocket heater' in that thread was a gnarly and proprietary (does not exist in public record at all outside of that courtroom) item.

13:50:55 shinohai: Think of the terror they possibly averted asciilifeform

13:54:16 shinohai: I feel better knowing the Federal Bumbling Idiots kept me safe from a college professor.

13:58:37 asciilifeform: shinohai: trial was for scamming

13:59:29 asciilifeform: shinohai: supposedly 'foreign devil's shill worked for american corp under false pretences, stealing everything and laughing all the way to the bank'

14:00:28 shinohai: ah ha

14:00:49 nubbins`: any of you nerds own a nintendo 3ds?

14:01:03 asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc diametric does

14:01:12 nubbins`: ;;seen diametric

14:01:12 gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 39 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <diametric> punkman: the people paying his employer for their ad services were not getting return on those ads.

14:01:17 nubbins`: hrmph

14:01:44 nubbins`: there's a Lemmings-esque game out for Wii U and 3DS; purchase one version and get a free download code for the other version

14:01:51 nubbins`: i have a wii u, but not a 3ds

14:02:19 nubbins`: http://mariovsdk.nintendo.com/

14:02:20 assbot: Mario vs. Donkey Kong™: Tipping Stars ... ( http://bit.ly/1EUazwn )

14:03:24 shinohai: I kind liked the wii, used to play drunken golf and bowling with an ex gf.

14:04:15 nubbins`: frisbee golf > golf

14:04:32 nubbins`: idgaf about "gaming" "CoD" "achievements" etc

14:04:40 nubbins`: but wii u is pretty fun.

14:04:45 nubbins`: good for filthy casuals

14:05:22 nubbins`: plus, mario kart 8. just saying.

14:10:42 shinohai: I still love playing Mario Kart for 64. Had it on an emulator but my current lappy doesn't support the graphics

14:20:03 funkenstein_: mornin' yo

14:20:34 funkenstein_: nice to see you nubbins, coffee is better today :)

14:21:00 funkenstein_: bravo re: fractals are everywhere continuous nowhere differentiable

14:21:37 funkenstein_: i too had cantor's diagonal proof "taught" in jr. high

14:21:46 funkenstein_: but the trouble is it is also taught wrong in a similar way

14:22:29 funkenstein_: "a number like 2 is a rank zero tensor, now you know tensors"

14:22:40 funkenstein_: "a line is self-similar, now you know fractals"

14:22:55 funkenstein_: "sqrt 2 is irrational, now you know uncountable numbers"

14:23:29 funkenstein_: NO! So I was confused for a decade or two

14:24:09 funkenstein_: numbers like sqrt2, pi, e, are members of the set of computable numbers.. which is countable

14:28:05 funkenstein_: seeing how every computer program is an integer

14:55:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39250 @ 0.0007556 = 29.6573 BTC [+] {2}

14:56:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105200 @ 0.00075648 = 79.5817 BTC [+] {3}

15:03:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8927 @ 0.00075523 = 6.7419 BTC [-]

15:39:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.0007574 = 6.0592 BTC [+] {2}

15:46:39 ben_vulpes: regarding the macintoshes

15:47:16 ben_vulpes: mobility is important to me, basically, and these are the only usable even remotely nixy portables being made.

15:47:31 asciilifeform: aha

15:47:45 asciilifeform: i did try to explain this to mircea_popescu

15:48:07 asciilifeform: response was, approximately, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-08-2015#1243116

15:48:07 assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'

15:49:03 ben_vulpes: but in the same way that java (wrapped in the fucked up functional language clojure) and javascript (wrapped in the fucked up functional language clojurescript) are acceptable tools with which to cut wwwtronic code, the mac is an acceptable tool to drag around an office.

15:49:14 ben_vulpes: i do dream of having a workstation though, and the lifestyle to support it.

15:49:27 ben_vulpes: along with not carrying a mobile phone.

15:49:53 asciilifeform: said the rich and skilled independent craftsman to the threadbare slave.

15:50:50 ben_vulpes: paugh rich

15:50:57 ben_vulpes: paugh skilled

15:51:00 ben_vulpes: paugh independent

15:52:46 asciilifeform: 'can't be fired' ~= 'independent'.

15:52:47 ben_vulpes: "Throughout this whole thing, I keep thinking "perl does that, perl does that, perl does that."

15:52:48 ben_vulpes: Using 'if' or the ternary operator as a function is quite common in perl. Using data structures to control flow is common in perl. Trying to learn C# after learning perl was like running head first into a brick wall. I'm really glad this guy is trying to make programming a bit more perl-like."

15:53:04 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: oh i could be fired.

15:53:05 ben_vulpes: trivially.

15:53:17 ben_vulpes: all i have to do is make one misstep with the SJW mob.

15:53:37 asciilifeform: l0l srsly ? i thought ben_vulpes was a travelling www consultant

15:53:48 asciilifeform: walks in, fixes bug, collects bag of benjies, leaves

15:55:32 ben_vulpes: i have a whole company that does this.

16:00:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you have a ware of "the dream machine"?

16:00:55 asciilifeform: ?

16:01:27 ben_vulpes: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dream-Machine-Licklider-Revolution/dp/014200135X

16:01:29 assbot: The Dream Machine: J.C.R. Licklider and the Revolution That Made Computing Personal: M. Mitchell Waldrop: 9780142001356: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1XWXNDn )

16:01:48 asciilifeform: i think i have the dead tree somewhere.

16:02:04 asciilifeform: a great many of licklider's papers are on www.

16:02:36 ben_vulpes: well, 'tis a book about licklider iiuc

16:03:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7053 @ 0.00075791 = 5.3455 BTC [+]

16:05:33 williamdunne: Can someone please give me a signed message to test something with? It can be filled with any old garbage, but has to be a key not on my machine, and saves me the hassle of creating, deleting, importing pubkey to test one message

16:06:59 funkenstein_: https://proxy.sh/canary <-- here's one

16:07:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lq1PuK )

16:07:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18905 @ 0.00075523 = 14.2776 BTC [-]

16:08:02 williamdunne: Cheers

16:11:16 williamdunne: Yeah that did the job perfectly

16:26:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4122 @ 0.00075791 = 3.1241 BTC [+]

16:29:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00075523 = 6.0418 BTC [-]

16:36:50 ben_vulpes: http://imgur.com/hAj0gCT

16:36:51 assbot: German tries to donate food but bag gets stolen - GIF on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX2jBV )

16:46:56 punkman: ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbDT3VE85vg

16:46:57 assbot: Healthy male refugees in Hungary refusing food and water for women and children on train - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX3Gk2 )

16:50:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271163 << did you test this ?

16:50:49 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 08:18:01; punkman: ;;later tell asciilifeform my ugly solution to patch conflicts http://dpaste.com/03TADM8

16:52:03 punkman: asciilifeform: not yet

16:53:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271218 << eventually they will cut their losses and demolish. but not yet, because the empties are a kind of bezzle of their own. ftr a good fraction of the town where i live consists of recently built and almost wholly empty dwellings.

16:53:33 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 11:08:50; punkman: and some spanish lulz http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/10/barcelona-fines-banks-60000-for-empty-homes

16:53:45 asciilifeform: they exist to maintain an asset fiction.

16:53:50 asciilifeform: and to keep prices up.

16:54:08 asciilifeform: apparently this works just the same in spain as in usa.

16:59:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271318 << plenty of folks are about go get their introductory course 'orcs 101'

16:59:09 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 16:46:56; punkman: ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbDT3VE85vg

17:02:53 asciilifeform: https://cryptome.org/dodi/2015/DTM-08-052.pdf >> http://dpaste.com/03NTX3T << bureaucracy l0lz

17:02:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX5Dgr )

17:02:57 assbot: dpaste: 03NTX3T ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX5DwL )

17:03:29 asciilifeform: '(2) Significant or Highly Sensitive Matters. A development or circumstance involving an intelligence activity or intelligence personnel that could impugn the reputation or integrity of the DoD Intelligence Community or otherwise call into question the propriety of an intelligence activity. Such matters might be manifested in or by an activity...'

17:04:21 asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski https://cryptome.org/2015/09/xiaoxing-xi-files.pdf << the 'chinese spy' case.

17:04:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:05:50 trinque: kakobrekla: cool, ty!

17:05:56 trinque: deedbot-: feeds add https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/

17:05:57 assbot: BitBet Bets Bets ... ( http://bit.ly/1EU9C7j )

17:05:57 deedbot-: https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/ added.

17:06:49 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.99995065 BTC on 'Yes' - Rand Paul will get less than 7 minutes in Sept. 16th Republican debate - http://bitbet.us/bet/1197/rand-paul-will-get-less-than-7-minutes/#b3

17:06:50 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - http://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#b3

17:06:50 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 8.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b14

17:06:51 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.50000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b15

17:06:51 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.33000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b16

17:06:52 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b19

17:07:01 trinque: ;;later tell pete_dushenski bitbet added to rss feeds

17:07:02 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:07:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00075523 = 28.7365 BTC [-]

17:09:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00075807 = 19.9372 BTC [+] {2}

17:11:15 asciilifeform: in other news, http://taler.net << the usg-approved, built-in-tax-collector-and-stoolie altcoin is finally rolled out.

17:11:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX6H3Q )

17:11:35 asciilifeform: and, disgracefully,

17:11:36 asciilifeform: http://taler.net/news

17:11:36 assbot: GNU Taler - Taxable Anonymous Libre Electronic Reserves: News ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX6HRp )

17:11:42 asciilifeform: ^ it is now an 'official gnu project'

17:11:52 asciilifeform: this means, presumably, that fsf/rms signed off on it.

17:11:53 asciilifeform: RIP rms.

17:12:14 asciilifeform: 'This page was created using Free Software only.'

17:12:15 asciilifeform: aha.

17:12:44 asciilifeform: 'This arse rape was performed using Free Cock only.'

17:13:26 asciilifeform: 'Unlike BitCoin or cash payments, Taler ensures that governments can easily track their citizen's income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes. Taler is thus a currency for the mainstream economy, and not the black market.'

17:16:14 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271360 <<< Rather succinct and accurate.

17:16:14 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 17:12:44; asciilifeform: 'This arse rape was performed using Free Cock only.'

17:25:35 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271180 << this is one of those 'dead' things to which the only serious alternative, for most users, is... its own reanimated, frankensteinian corpse. and little else.

17:25:35 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 10:18:46; phf: ascii_field: mircea_popescu: go give ben_vulpes a unix and laptop co-designed with it, then he can throw away the crapple << there's three apples in my mind, 90s one, the early 2000s one when programmers migrated from linux to a unix that Just Works, and the post iphone explosion apple. the first two are dead (10.10 is the final reason i froze my setup and migrating my entire stack away). but my point is that

17:28:17 asciilifeform: last year, i was given several $k by the fella i work for, to buy whatever machine i wanted, so long as it was portable. ended up with top-of-the-line (at the time) 'lenovo', and WHEN USING ONLY FREE SOFT despite MONTHS of effort, neither battery, nor 'suspend mode', nor EXTERNDAL DISPAY OF ANY KIND work.

17:28:21 asciilifeform: *external

17:29:45 asciilifeform: and the hardware itself, despite being widely praised, is shit - firm ended up with three of these machines, and one has developed mysterious cancers (runs win7, but if using anything else, hangs - sometimes during GRUB (!!!) or shortly after boot) while another - mine - has flaky wireless

17:30:49 asciilifeform: i shit thee not, a machine that suddenly decided that it won't even get through 'grub' 9 out of 10 times, but runs winblowz just fine. a year into its life.

17:31:41 kakobrekla: thinkpads died years ago.

17:31:45 asciilifeform: yes

17:31:46 asciilifeform: they did.

17:31:50 asciilifeform: TO BE REPLACED BY NOTHING

17:31:57 asciilifeform: except worse thinkpad.

17:32:01 phf: there are two lenovos, which are entirely different products

17:32:11 asciilifeform: phf: this was the 'heavy industrial' one.

17:32:35 trinque: asciilifeform: I've got the x1 carbon and the fucking hinge broke

17:32:47 phf: i meant to say there are two thinkpads

17:32:54 trinque: I'm about to epoxy the thing

17:33:13 asciilifeform: w540.

17:33:14 kakobrekla: i have a few x220 (which seem better than x230 which the girl uses)

17:33:20 phf: i actually think apple killed thinkpad

17:33:48 trinque: murder-suicide?

17:33:52 phf: aye

17:34:00 asciilifeform: how did apple kill it

17:34:03 asciilifeform: i dun get it

17:34:20 trinque: macbook pro did seem to step into the "professional computer" role

17:34:37 kakobrekla: and ips seems to be quite scarce among non apple. sux0r. i cant see a tn anymore.

17:34:39 trinque: I recall before that it was IBM thinkpads

17:34:43 asciilifeform: thing is, i can entirely predict, i think, what mircea_popescu will say: 'your life choices are wrong, you should not need a laptop'

17:34:52 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes, FUCK tn.

17:34:56 phf: what trinque said

17:35:19 kakobrekla: yeah, got ips on mine.

17:35:28 kakobrekla: you can actually upgrade some old tps to ips.

17:35:44 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: funny thing is, a number of the other folks where i work got top-of-the-line 'macbooks' - one had spontaneous lcd crack a few weeks later, the other - reboots by itself...

17:35:45 kakobrekla: minimal amount of sawing required.

17:36:11 kakobrekla: heh toys.

17:36:20 funkenstein_: as I see it the reason to have a crapple is you can pretend to know nothing about computers

17:36:33 kakobrekla: i havent had any bad luck with mine.

17:36:44 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: since you apparently missed the whole thread, the reason is TO HAVE A PORTABLE UNIX BOX THAT EVEN SORT-OF WORKS

17:36:50 funkenstein_: once i moved to only open source software I have to install linux on a few laptops every month

17:37:00 funkenstein_: 12 year old girl installed debian on a dell box the other day

17:37:08 funkenstein_: i put xubuntu on an asus box last week

17:37:10 funkenstein_: all work

17:37:24 funkenstein_: qubes on a lenovo box here at the moment

17:37:25 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: what res display ?

17:37:36 kakobrekla: well just once. i was trying to see how sturdy it is. and i broke it. was an easy change of part tho.

17:37:44 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: and did you PERSONALLY build the kernel, without closed blobs ?

17:37:59 funkenstein_: no, live-signed-iso

17:38:09 asciilifeform: then you may as well have a crapple.

17:38:12 trinque: my gentoo install on the x1 is entirely adequate, can suspend

17:38:17 trinque: don't ask me what I did to make it work, though

17:38:17 funkenstein_: lol wut?

17:38:20 asciilifeform: trinque: what res lcd

17:38:29 kakobrekla: crappy

17:38:30 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: you are running a closed turd

17:38:34 trinque: asciilifeform: 2560x1440

17:38:54 kakobrekla: thats tn ?

17:39:10 trinque: what's "tn" ?

17:39:25 kakobrekla: tn matrix of the lcd screen

17:39:48 asciilifeform: trinque: there are two major chemistries, 'tn' ('twist-nematic') and the superior 'ips'

17:39:49 phf: funkenstein_: when gentoo came out it had a reputation of being a "ricer" os, like how people put spoilers on cheap cars to make them "racing cars". all you need to know is how to tweak a few flags, and then spend a night watching a compilation log. of course these days ~even that~ is an arcane skill

17:39:52 asciilifeform: (in-plane switch)

17:40:08 trinque: ah, it's IPS

17:40:25 asciilifeform: phf: the point of gentoo, in my view (i've been on it for more than a decade, freebsd before that) is to BANISH CRAP from machine

17:40:38 asciilifeform: i don't want anything on my box I DIDN'T PUT THERE.

17:40:39 trinque: ^ package.mask and -useflag

17:40:55 asciilifeform: aha. plus judicious package selection in the first place.

17:41:10 phf: asciilifeform: these days it is, yes. back then the little amount of crap you had could be manually removed by patching your deb package or whatever

17:41:24 asciilifeform: fuck 'remove'

17:41:31 asciilifeform: i don't want the cockroaches in the kitchen to begin with

17:41:38 asciilifeform: even if could, theoretically, 'remove' with tweezers.

17:42:20 phf: asciilifeform: it's not theoretical. base set of debian packages was fairly clean in 2005, and the few that you wanted to behave your way, you could ~trivially~ modify

17:42:39 kakobrekla: trinque whats the buttery time on that thing

17:42:40 phf: in ~2015~ it's a different story, and i'm not arguing the value of gentoo here

17:43:28 trinque: kakobrekla: claims 9hrs; I would expect with heavy use it's more like half that.

17:43:34 punkman: phf: and in 2006 it had that nice rng bug

17:43:44 kakobrekla: fuck claims, thats rand()+2

17:44:14 trinque: yep, so I would say I've gotten 3-4hrs while coding out

17:44:29 phf: punkman: debian is older, so would show signs of cancer earlier

17:46:32 phf: this is also roughly the period when people running various unixes on their thinkpads imho decided that as long as you have to deal with shitty code, might as well use a mac, which let you run same userspace, at the time still had an opensource kernel, etc.

17:47:00 phf: but would play videos, do projectors and connect to wifi, or whatever was the pet peeve. battery life

17:47:28 trinque: well "desktop linux" was an utter fail

17:47:55 trinque: so you either spend the inordinate amount of time I have writing your own tools for the "desktop" or pay someone who already handled that for you

17:47:56 asciilifeform: trinque: laptop linux - yes, fail.

17:48:46 asciilifeform: cannot be made to work ~decently~ (that means thinkpad w540 or AT LEAST that level of hardware) for ANY AMOUNT of money

17:48:59 trinque: and this tape-job holding emacs and stumpwm (and now conkeror) together is hideous

17:49:07 phf: desktop linux destroyed linux as a system for professional workstations. poetering (or whatever) made his name on desktop-ification of subsystems that were supposedly "hard for common user"

17:49:27 trinque: if gabriel_laddel's is masamune, I guess mine can be "sting"

17:49:32 asciilifeform: phf: the thing is, it is still possible to run linux as if it were 2005.

17:49:44 asciilifeform: it just requires having-been-doing-it-since-2000

17:50:19 trinque: when I say desktop, I mean place where I tape together system functionality into functions I use in daily work

17:50:39 asciilifeform: this is why i'm fundamentally in agreement with mircea_popescu's traditional retort 'go back in time and make better life choices'. but it applies just the same to my own sins, just different ones, not involving linux

17:51:27 trinque: asciilifeform: yep, don't need pulseaudio for sound (even with mixing!), don't need networkmanager for internet connection (even wifi!), don't need systemd... dont need...

17:51:35 asciilifeform: aha

17:51:59 asciilifeform: but go an find a ~portable~ box with high-res ips lcd, with RECENT cpu, that runs without blobs.

17:52:01 trinque: "container support" in kernel, don't need it.

17:52:12 asciilifeform: hell, increasingly difficult to get a stationary box that runs blobless.

17:52:34 punkman: it starts with "recent" cpu

17:52:58 asciilifeform: punkman: it is so wrong to asl for at least the performance of my 2007 desktop in the portable?

17:53:04 asciilifeform: *ask for

17:53:26 trinque: this is why that packet-parsing networking device interests me so much.

17:53:40 asciilifeform: what's that to do with it

17:53:47 trinque: could consider your computers "bubble-boy", unfit to interact directly with the outside world

17:53:57 trinque: the "blobs" for example, the concern is attack vector, right?

17:53:57 asciilifeform: trinque: anyone who wants to abandon the net can do it right now.

17:54:01 asciilifeform: trinque: NO

17:54:08 trinque: then what?

17:54:09 asciilifeform: trinque: this is a common misconception. has nothing to do with attacks.

17:54:17 asciilifeform: recall 'act from cause not purpose' ?

17:54:21 trinque: I do.

17:54:25 asciilifeform: it has fuck-all to do with 'attacks'

17:54:31 asciilifeform: and more to do with 'my machine is mentally mine'

17:55:02 trinque: a businessman might begin with creating the network device, then later try to build a boy that needs no bubble

17:55:08 asciilifeform: it has to do with 'i will not deliberately introduce undebuggable faults into my life'

17:55:14 asciilifeform: enough of them as it is.

17:55:27 asciilifeform: trinque: the businessman will go broke.

17:55:47 asciilifeform: because 'the market' demands web2.0 anal rogering simulators

17:55:51 asciilifeform: not sanity.

17:56:31 asciilifeform: the market value of sanity, if you haven't yet noticed, is $0.

17:58:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1220518 << see also.

17:58:05 assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 05:46:04; mircea_popescu: taci si suge.

17:58:09 trinque: people buy derpy firewall devices all the time

17:58:19 asciilifeform: 'people' also buy horoscopes.

17:58:20 asciilifeform: what of it.

17:58:26 asciilifeform: go, sell horoscopes.

17:58:50 phf: asciilifeform: i don't think "having-been-doing-it-since-2000" is true, naggum ran into the main issue when he tried to run his own fork of 19 without the mule braindamage, gave up since merging changesets becomes unproductive. i think somewhere around those emails he talks about how he no longer has stamina to review new changes that are introduced into his system, and that's 2001 or so

17:59:10 asciilifeform: notice he retired and shortly died (of preventable diseases)

17:59:22 asciilifeform: he more or less gave up on life, after failing to find the answer to this.

18:03:24 asciilifeform: earlier, he gave up on publishing his work openly, at all, as described in http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html

18:03:25 assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1OKBnPu )

18:04:11 asciilifeform: 'All of this "code sharing" is an economic surplus phenomenon. It works only when none of the people involved in it are in any form of need. As soon as the need arises, a lot of people discover that it has cost them real money to work for the community and they reap very little benefit from it, because they are sharing value-less services and getting value out of something that people take for granted is hard to impossible.'

18:04:17 phf: well, i have a 2.4 box that runs "if your dodgy stack fails, this must remain" operations, like email, sms, incidentally that is also last version i can find my way around (pretty sure massive amd/intel commit blogs came later), but it's impractical to use it as main system, unless you go to extreme measures of "my gimp 1.2 is as good as your photoshop" rms style

18:04:35 trinque: right, it's an economic problem..

18:04:56 trinque: which is why I keep bringing up incremental products along the way to rebuilding computing

18:05:00 asciilifeform: 'Grow up, graduate, marry, start a family, buy a house, have an accident, get seriously ill for a while, or a number of other very expensive things people actually do all the time, and the value of your work starts to get very real and concrete to you, at which point giving away things to be "nice" to some "community" which turns out not to be "nice" _enough_ in return that you will actually stay alive, is no longer an option.'

18:05:18 trinque: I've seen men before that fixated on a desired end result so much that they didn't bother with the intermediate steps at all.

18:05:24 asciilifeform: trinque: aha, get to the moon by stacking chairs. i'll watch.

18:05:26 trinque: they (economically, at least) died

18:05:34 trinque: that's just a metaphor

18:05:42 trinque: all businesses that grow operate like this

18:05:43 asciilifeform: it is an almost exact analogy

18:05:55 asciilifeform: trinque: and THAT is why no one has rebuilt computing.

18:06:22 asciilifeform: because it is a fundamentally countereconomic act.

18:06:34 asciilifeform: because no one pays for sunlight.

18:06:45 asciilifeform: and sunlight that can be charged for is not sunlight.

18:06:48 trinque: that cartels sell crack and heroin does not preclude them from whatever other activities they might undertake

18:07:06 asciilifeform: trinque: in practice, it does.

18:07:41 asciilifeform: what great cultural products ought i look for from the sellers of crack ?

18:07:53 trinque: owning the southern united states someday.

18:08:03 asciilifeform: and when the cockroaches own it?

18:08:10 asciilifeform: i should look for great cultural product from them ?

18:08:24 asciilifeform: 'owning' is easy, it merely requires the other contenders to die.

18:08:31 trinque: ever read Egan's thing about Colombian biotech-lords?

18:08:38 asciilifeform: aha

18:08:43 asciilifeform: notice that they exist only in fiction.

18:08:52 asciilifeform: 'nido de ladrones', yes

18:09:56 asciilifeform: fact is, dealing dope is rather like, e.g., smelting aluminum, but much more so: attracts eminently practical types with zero imagination. by necessity.

18:11:01 trinque: I don't underestimate anyone who can handle that level of organizational complexity

18:11:32 trinque: but the analogy was that one could sell technological dope to fund research on the other thing

18:11:39 trinque: the competition is nonexistent

18:11:41 asciilifeform: a gigantic stone on which you can build a skyscraper also 'handles great organizational complexity'

18:11:53 asciilifeform: trinque: competition for what?

18:12:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36199 @ 0.00075849 = 27.4566 BTC [+] {2}

18:12:33 asciilifeform: the dope lord who funds groundbreaking research is an imaginary animal.

18:12:44 asciilifeform: not the least reason for this is that research PER SE is now a lemon market.

18:12:53 trinque: just means we need another war

18:12:58 trinque: humans are getting lazy

18:13:19 asciilifeform: trinque: too lazy even for proper war.

18:13:43 asciilifeform: and if it were to be fought, it will be fought with museum pieces from 1950s (all modern aircraft, for instance, are) and the next war will be fought with bow and arrow.

18:14:12 trinque: I think the problem with the idiocracy idea is precisely "here is everywhere"

18:14:19 asciilifeform: but it is.

18:14:31 trinque: every time one group weakens and falls inward, someone else is there to skullfuck them

18:15:27 asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is asleep, i will have to fill in for him and point out that cockroaches COULD develop civilization after ten million years of inhabiting the burned-out husks of the skyscrapers.

18:15:35 asciilifeform: but this is not interesting to me personally.

18:15:48 phf: i guess ascii's point is that skullfuckers are not particularly good at ic design, etc.

18:15:56 trinque: heh, there are those social spiders in the Congo

18:16:04 asciilifeform: they are no good even at basic literacy and opsec.

18:16:11 asciilifeform: to the point of being cattle for washington.

18:16:22 asciilifeform: yes, every last 'phreedom fighter' in the desert.

18:16:22 trinque: phf: the germans weren't that great once upon a time, then they came around

18:17:58 asciilifeform: then they lost a war and got culturally annihilated and enslaved by the anglos.

18:18:22 phf: trinque: it took an awfully long time, i want my utopia tomorrow!

18:18:25 asciilifeform: there are no germans today, as surely as there are no romans.

18:18:26 trinque: then the anglos fall and maybe the muslims shape up

18:18:40 asciilifeform: trinque: they had ~1500 years to 'shape up'

18:18:52 asciilifeform: some equilibria are very stable. egypt carried on for well over 5,000 yrs

18:19:31 trinque: phf: haven't found starfleet yet, nor even a used Firefly in a junkyard

18:20:23 asciilifeform: trinque: familiar with 'what do you expect me to do? -- no mr bond, we expect you to die!' ?

18:20:34 trinque: haha, yes

18:20:42 asciilifeform: trinque: there is not a handy answer to 'what should culture man stuck in a dying civilization do'

18:20:50 asciilifeform: *cultured

18:21:37 phf: asciilifeform: they are no good even at basic literacy and opsec. << those andrei toom's articles...

18:21:38 trinque: you're talking to a guy who dropped out of university when he realized he'd fallen for a cardboard movie set of a university

18:22:20 asciilifeform: phf: didja miss the part where he lives in brazil and has to fight off complains from little gurlz who NEED their straight-A marks ?

18:22:24 asciilifeform: *compaints

18:22:48 asciilifeform: trinque: and now you get to enjoy the cardboard set of a software industry, aha

18:22:49 phf: asciilifeform: oh i'm bringing them up in support to what you just said, so no

18:23:00 asciilifeform: ah

18:28:08 phf: reminds me of michael brin stoping and erasing a proof midway explanation while loudly proclaiming "you idiots wouldn't understand this anyway", but then his son, sergey brin, presumably outfitted umd data centers, etc.

18:28:42 asciilifeform: the former, i saw alive

18:28:51 asciilifeform: the latter, can go and pound sand.

18:29:15 asciilifeform: (the old man, incidentally, no longer teaches here. if he is alive still, he is far away and retired.)

18:31:21 phf: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=761872 << michael brin "rating"

18:31:22 assbot: Michael Brin at University of Maryland - RateMyProfessors.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1OKGv6e )

18:33:01 phf: i remember having many lulz finding it last time, not sure if same website, but idea is the same "omg!!!worst prof eva!11"

18:37:14 asciilifeform: best class i ever flunked.

18:38:31 asciilifeform: it would not be an exaggeration to say that if it were not for this man, i would be a 'respectable' dunning-krugerized waste of space somewhere, with delusions of 'knowing maths'

18:39:33 asciilifeform: he was a true master of teaching a kid exactly how worthless of a worm he is.

18:39:38 asciilifeform: the kid, that is

18:39:56 asciilifeform: this is generally not taught in american schools.

18:41:27 asciilifeform: oliver heaviside wrote cryptically of the important life-cycle step of 'earning one's worm'

18:41:34 asciilifeform: i think i know just what he meant.

18:45:19 phf: hehe, i too had to take it twice. i skipped a semester to take it with brin again, and "applied myself" that time

18:48:42 asciilifeform: http://drvitelli.typepad.com/providentia/2012/09/the-problem-with-oliver-heaviside.html << fairly good summary of mr h, for n00bz

18:48:44 assbot: The Problem with Oliver Heaviside - Providentia ... ( http://bit.ly/1OKJI5N )

18:49:08 asciilifeform: (from my familiarity with the - very few - primary sources, it is accurate.)

19:05:25 asciilifeform: phf: interestingly, around the time dr. b retired, i fished a full ru set of knuth's aop from the library's garbage bin, along with a few dozen other (some, crumbling from age) maths texts, also ru

19:05:34 asciilifeform: can't help but wonder if they belonged to him.

19:07:49 phf: re heaviside i don't grok how he could work in a hot room

19:07:58 asciilifeform: me neither.

19:08:13 asciilifeform: but i suspect that we all have requirements that seem equally nonsensical to other people.

19:09:30 asciilifeform: i, for instance, can't think about any deep problem when in a place where human speech is happening, or bodies are in motion.

19:12:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22156 @ 0.00075632 = 16.757 BTC [-]

19:12:27 phf: me neither, but i thought that was norm. also makes me think that bullpen programming offices are a conspiracy

19:12:45 phf: actually wait i see your point

19:13:59 phf: i was once laughed out of interview for suggesting that i want an office with a door that i can close on demand

19:19:16 asciilifeform: phf: that is because employment in usa is a 'dominance game' first and useful work second.

19:20:34 asciilifeform: if you ask for a closing door, or to work remotely, it is usually seen as a demand to play tetris instead of work.

19:20:36 asciilifeform: hence the laughter.

19:24:34 asciilifeform: only mba gets to play tetris behind a closing door.

19:36:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00075691 = 25.7349 BTC [+]

20:13:37 mircea_popescu: !up i-dont-know2

20:26:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271245 <<< you misspelled thrice cursed dog.

20:26:59 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 13:59:29; asciilifeform: shinohai: supposedly 'foreign devil's shill worked for american corp under false pretences, stealing everything and laughing all the way to the bank'

20:28:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271265 << aha.

20:28:08 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 14:21:00; funkenstein_: bravo re: fractals are everywhere continuous nowhere differentiable

20:28:34 mircea_popescu: which... you know, i slept on this, and it occurs to me that ACTUAL MATHEMATICS might be the perfect thing to implement over V.

20:28:45 mircea_popescu: now if only i was in prison and i had the fucking undisturbed time to actually do this.

20:29:47 mircea_popescu: but V is the best simulation of how actual math learning happens (in those brains actually capable to learn math) that we ever had as a fucking species.

20:29:52 asciilifeform: l0lwut

20:29:57 mircea_popescu: yes!

20:30:05 asciilifeform: it's just a bloody graph walker

20:30:12 asciilifeform: where is this magic mircea_popescu sees.

20:30:14 mircea_popescu: with verified antecedents.

20:30:24 mircea_popescu: that you can follow as far as you wish

20:30:47 asciilifeform: there are no guarantees of correctness, only provenance.

20:30:52 mircea_popescu: a half-baked implementation of V is what i had been maintaining in my head throughout my schooling years.

20:30:55 mircea_popescu: that's all that's needed.

20:31:02 asciilifeform: pretty much what everyone does, aha.

20:31:10 mircea_popescu: so then there's the magic.

20:31:24 mircea_popescu: the magic of fully inclusive simplicity.

20:31:27 asciilifeform: then yes.

20:31:46 asciilifeform: but nobody had to wait for the proggy to do this, all thinking people have done it always.

20:31:57 mircea_popescu: dude, nobody had to wait for glass to do chemistry either

20:32:03 asciilifeform: l0l

20:32:06 mircea_popescu: thinking people had meta-glass throughout!

20:32:37 asciilifeform: pottery is almost glass for almost any purpose not involving optics...

20:32:45 mircea_popescu: or reuse.

20:32:49 asciilifeform: aha

20:32:56 mircea_popescu: more like d'oh.

20:33:11 mircea_popescu: corpses are almost pregnant women for almost any purposes

20:33:17 mircea_popescu: everyone eventually dies anyway rite.

20:33:22 *: asciilifeform falls down

20:33:49 asciilifeform: and perhaps now mircea_popescu figured out how i got on my 'computer algebra' kick in recent months.

20:33:59 mircea_popescu: problem is the people giving the latter peripueral fever didn't really realise

20:34:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i fucking mentioned derive okay!

20:34:11 asciilifeform: aha

20:34:14 mircea_popescu: I AM AHEAD OF YOU HA-HA!

20:34:39 asciilifeform: not only mentioned, but got to derive slightly before i did !

20:34:42 mircea_popescu: this is starting to feel like fucking highschool all over again. shit, i missed that.

20:34:46 mircea_popescu: b-a philosopher's stone.

20:34:59 mircea_popescu: i am now young again.

20:37:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point re peripueral fever is important. see, the people DIDNT KNOW pottery is no good for reuse. so couldn't get to chemistry. guess why ?

20:38:00 mircea_popescu: for the reason discussed! no access to verifiable, predictable small parts

20:38:09 mircea_popescu: which in chemistry happen to be pure reagents.

20:38:29 mircea_popescu: so they ended up with an exact equivalent of "idiosyncratic medium, creative artistry"

20:38:38 mircea_popescu: which is to say, fucking divination and assorted theatrical bullshit.

20:40:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271268 <<< fuicking americans. "i name this land This Land it is therefore my own now".

20:40:29 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 14:22:29; funkenstein_: "a number like 2 is a rank zero tensor, now you know tensors"

20:41:26 mircea_popescu: ontogenesis repeats all the accidents of phylogenesis in a distorted, cursed form.

20:44:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00075691 = 34.2123 BTC [+]

20:45:57 shinohai: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34229439 <<< Obame declares attacks "unacceptable", continues to use Windows.

20:45:59 assbot: Obama: China cyber attacks 'unacceptable' - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1KiluAk )

20:46:13 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271247 <<< ya, i do

20:46:13 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 14:00:49; nubbins`: any of you nerds own a nintendo 3ds?

20:47:21 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271252 <<< sky3ds is even better version!

20:47:21 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 14:01:44; nubbins`: there's a Lemmings-esque game out for Wii U and 3DS; purchase one version and get a free download code for the other version

20:48:18 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271635 << almost exact restatement of my 'yc news' comment turd from decade ago, aha

20:48:18 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 20:38:00; mircea_popescu: for the reason discussed! no access to verifiable, predictable small parts

20:48:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform intended reference to it.

20:50:49 asciilifeform: 'But he said that China should fear confrontation online: "I guarantee you we will win if we have to."' << l0l!!

20:51:21 asciilifeform: mein fuhrer, revoke the untermenschen scum's winblowz licenses !

20:51:47 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

20:51:54 mircea_popescu: who the fuck is this guy again ?

20:51:59 shinohai: xD

20:52:13 mircea_popescu: i have a dead sand nigger on file, but his name was spelled differently.

20:52:24 asciilifeform: muppet in chief.

20:52:38 mircea_popescu: so was the reported death exaggerated or the name misspelled or what gives.

20:54:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271281 << you can try all you want, i've seen mod6 's portable openbsd. so has ben_vulpes

20:54:59 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:47:45; asciilifeform: i did try to explain this to mircea_popescu

20:55:07 asciilifeform: on ancient shitbook

20:55:09 mircea_popescu: there is nothing magical about "portable"

20:55:13 asciilifeform: ah but there is.

20:55:23 mircea_popescu: what, you needed to render the film of fucking stoya in your hotel room ?

20:55:26 asciilifeform: if you need 4K lcd

20:55:50 mircea_popescu: i must have missed this, when did she gatecrash.

20:55:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla also explained, non-ips lcd is agony to look at.

20:56:14 *: mircea_popescu won't have it.

20:57:27 *: asciilifeform works with items such as logic analyzer, pc emulators, etc. and ~needs~ 16-32 GB of ram, for instance, and the fastest cpu available. and yes, it has to be portable.

20:57:35 asciilifeform: and no, i don't crypto on it.

20:57:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271285 << i hear emplacing a workstation is the first step to building a Dark Spire of Darnkess, from which as we all know all atomic dirigibles must proceed.

20:57:45 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:49:14; ben_vulpes: i do dream of having a workstation though, and the lifestyle to support it.

20:58:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i actualy had to do that i'd hire a mexican to drag a desktop and use special cabling before i'd use a fucking proprietary laptop.

20:58:33 mircea_popescu: i want to own my own mexicans.

20:58:54 asciilifeform: this a contradiction in terms because a mircea_popescu, with his slave army, would never be in such a position to begin with.

20:59:07 mircea_popescu: why not ? i might have to logic analyze

20:59:17 mircea_popescu: it's really vice-versa.

20:59:40 mircea_popescu: it's not "this is moot to mp, with army of slaves". it's "he who refuses to buy into, can't help but end up with army of slaves".

20:59:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu presumably wouldn't do it unless it were sufficiently profitable to justify flying a 'spruice goose' with mobile lab.

21:00:17 asciilifeform: whereas my economic output is barely enough to justify 'own weight in pork.'

21:00:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271293 << ironically these are all the reasons i never moved from bash to perl.

21:00:25 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:52:48; ben_vulpes: Using 'if' or the ternary operator as a function is quite common in perl. Using data structures to control flow is common in perl. Trying to learn C# after learning perl was like running head first into a brick wall. I'm really glad this guy is trying to make programming a bit more perl-like."

21:00:33 mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck the undeclared function of if.

21:00:47 asciilifeform: gotta love all the other undeclared idiocy in perl

21:00:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's another way to say im inefficient :)

21:00:52 asciilifeform: like the 'implicit variable'

21:01:07 mircea_popescu: what's that ?

21:01:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://perlmaven.com/the-default-variable-of-perl << it

21:01:43 assbot: $_ the default variable of Perl ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4lOSn )

21:02:06 mircea_popescu: o hey check it out, a magic letter.

21:02:29 asciilifeform: aha, just like dear old fortran

21:02:31 asciilifeform: but messier

21:03:08 mircea_popescu: why is this there, convenience ?

21:03:34 mircea_popescu: is support mandated throughout the whole namespace ? can i assume randomfunction knows of $_ ?

21:03:51 asciilifeform: larry wall is a very interesting fella. he's a linguist by trade (actually by avocation, he's a crackpot missionary for some church or other)

21:04:00 asciilifeform: he wanted an item that would 'be like human language'

21:04:07 asciilifeform: in particular, with regard to extreme context-sensitivity.

21:04:33 asciilifeform: and yes, it is mandated (though one may be able to pull some odd trick with the evaluator and snip it, i would be the last to know)

21:04:43 *: asciilifeform 'hurled' many years ago, no longer perls.

21:05:16 mircea_popescu: you can actually use this to obtain code that compiles to different results can't you ?

21:05:27 asciilifeform: perl is (approximately) interpreted.

21:05:38 asciilifeform: (or i suppose 'jit'-compiled in recent versions)

21:05:53 asciilifeform: but yes, it is the ultimate in obfuscation and nobody-knows-what-the-fuck-the-machine-does

21:05:56 mircea_popescu: but nevertheless $_ can take the value of being a function

21:06:12 asciilifeform: could, yes.

21:06:22 mircea_popescu: so then the result of compiling perl is undecidable ?

21:07:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00075548 = 21.3045 BTC [-] {3}

21:07:38 mircea_popescu: i guess it would have to be interpreted.

21:07:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'just in time' compilator is something like a memoized interpreter, yes.

21:08:01 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:08:18 mircea_popescu: compilator lol

21:08:26 mircea_popescu: for asciilifeform won't deign to call that thing a compiler

21:09:39 mircea_popescu: gavrea, whom i've recently mentioned, had a very similar saying to distinguish between the "mathematical understanding" as described by funkenstein and the genuine article, by using the difference between the romanian words muzician (musician) and muzicant (roughly speaking, illiterate gypsy that can play by ear)

21:10:15 phf: afair perl uses multiple namespaces, so $ is explicitly a storage space, i.e. a variable

21:10:16 mircea_popescu: the idea being exactly reproducibility.

21:10:51 mircea_popescu: phf you mean a number not a pointer, and using it to be a function is abuse ?

21:12:35 phf: it's a pointer alright, but if you were to store a function in there, you have to use special syntax to execute it

21:12:37 mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/hAj0gCT << very illustrative in the vein of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-09-2015#1262882

21:12:38 assbot: German tries to donate food but bag gets stolen - GIF on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1XX2jBV )

21:12:38 assbot: Logged on 04-09-2015 22:33:02; assbot: Logged on 02-09-2015 14:16:12; assbot: Logged on 10-12-2014 00:51:50; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head

21:12:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271714 << sorta like 'programmer' vs 'coder' in english-speaking lands...

21:12:46 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 21:09:39; mircea_popescu: gavrea, whom i've recently mentioned, had a very similar saying to distinguish between the "mathematical understanding" as described by funkenstein and the genuine article, by using the difference between the romanian words muzician (musician) and muzicant (roughly speaking, illiterate gypsy that can play by ear)

21:13:01 mircea_popescu: no, the local boys don't need zee german. they are perfecty of age, and perfectly capable to split the goods themselves, which includes the women, which includes his wife.

21:13:04 mircea_popescu: ty for dropping by tho

21:14:17 mircea_popescu: should be fun to see merkel try and tax them.

21:14:33 asciilifeform: tax them ?! l0l! they are the reason ~others~ are to be taxed.

21:14:45 phf: $_=sub() {print 'hello';} but then $_->() to call

21:15:13 phf: it is sad that i have this information stored somewhere in my brain, and that it eventually can be recalled with some prodding

21:16:44 mircea_popescu: phf ok so it is actually separated linguistically.

21:17:35 mircea_popescu: what if i make the program branch, and then load itself as $_ ?

21:17:44 phf: right, there are different namespaces for different kinds of data, like $ is a scalar, @ is a collection, & is a callable, i'm sure other things i forget

21:18:01 mircea_popescu: o hey even better, i use &

21:18:52 mircea_popescu: &=sub(if microsecond time is prime, output [this program but with microsecond+1 tested] ; else if microsecond time si not prime, output [this program])

21:18:52 gribble: Error: "this" is not a valid command.

21:19:00 phf: hehe

21:19:02 mircea_popescu: then execute it with itself as parameter

21:20:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00075494 = 2.8688 BTC [-]

21:21:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would probably enjoy abelson & sussman's classic 'sicp', which contained, in very succinct notation, exercises such as this.

21:21:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but at least that thing compiles to a fixed form.

21:21:40 asciilifeform: depends on what.

21:21:46 phf: or the little lisper for that matter

21:22:17 asciilifeform: scheme with continuations (call-with-current-continuation aka call/cc) doesn't cleanly compile to the c-machine.

21:22:18 phf: which was particularly oriented towards computation is data is computation

21:23:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the usg-approved, built-in-tax-collector-and-stoolie altcoin is finally rolled out. << lmao "taler", who the fuck came up with that one. but anyway, no. they are weak and know they're weak. throwing shit at wall to see if maybe sticks but in no case admitting ownership. so... no.

21:23:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was nyoozworthy because fsf/rms

21:23:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is kinda why i was mocking the "lisp as its own thing" thing days back

21:23:30 asciilifeform: have capitulated. (or this is implied, i have not asked them why it is 'part of gnu project)

21:24:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i said 'does not cleanly compile', that is, requires a runtime component, rather than 'does not compile'

21:24:26 mircea_popescu: im not bothering with rms anymoar. prolly like the libc improvements, he doesn't understand what it is and whatever, more words to put on website

21:25:38 mircea_popescu: "Taler is thus a currency for the mainstream economy, and not the black market." lmao ok. here's a news tidbit : so called "black market" IS the mainstream economy.

21:25:48 mircea_popescu: the govt sponsored ponzis are not economies to begin with.

21:26:11 mircea_popescu: but whatever, this point needn't be decided theoretically now, seeing how it'll be decided practically in just a few years anyway.

21:26:52 asciilifeform: nobody ever actually learns from 'decided practically.'

21:27:23 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b21

21:27:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not wish to teach.

21:27:43 mircea_popescu: i am satisfied with hurting and selecting.

21:27:59 asciilifeform: how did that go in ro? are there no plankton today ? no ponzi ?

21:28:11 asciilifeform: or did the spores left behind suffice to re-create 90% of it.

21:28:33 mircea_popescu: i'll tell you what it did. allow me to bring the illustration, one second.

21:30:41 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/67b07a8bf5e1a23077a918caada9f192/tumblr_mzv6n6R30a1s3xdydo1_1280.jpg

21:30:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4nbAx )

21:30:59 mircea_popescu: romanians, to this day, WILL NOT QUEUE.

21:31:17 mircea_popescu: the girl, being too young, thinks this is a bad thing, because romanians are thus so observably different from the "more civilised" assorted cattles of europe.

21:31:40 asciilifeform: strikes me as the classic orc/human divide

21:31:43 mircea_popescu: i know better than that. i expect so do you.

21:31:49 mircea_popescu: mno. it is not.

21:31:50 asciilifeform: witness the orderly queues of tokyo

21:32:02 asciilifeform: what do they lose, from it

21:32:10 asciilifeform: the freedom to brownian-motion ?

21:32:16 mircea_popescu: yeah.

21:32:27 asciilifeform: where was that mircea_popescu article about the old jail

21:32:37 asciilifeform: the one with 'height of tallest structure that can be built'

21:32:38 mircea_popescu: the notion that a queue is an acceptable situation is more enmitous to humanity than any other mental device.

21:33:15 mircea_popescu: for instance, the argentinians : they are definitely orcs. they queue perfectly well.

21:33:27 mircea_popescu: there's strictly no reaction between the bovine quality and the feline quality.

21:33:29 asciilifeform: there are different grades of orc, no?

21:33:32 mircea_popescu: orthogonal, not opposites.

21:33:49 asciilifeform: hm

21:33:51 mircea_popescu: no, they aren't. theyt're exactly the grade of orc ukrainians are. except here they have good steak and there they have good whore.

21:34:48 *: asciilifeform predicts that all orcs happily form queues when they are issued 'ipNohe'

21:34:52 asciilifeform: to play tetris on.

21:35:04 asciilifeform: one of the reasons they are popular in usa.

21:35:17 shinohai: Don't be hatin on Tetris asciilifeform

21:35:26 asciilifeform: a train station or even traffic jam is a kaleidoscope of little glowing screens !

21:35:32 mircea_popescu: and you propose to defend this behaviour or what am i missing ?

21:35:39 asciilifeform: merely predicting

21:36:16 mircea_popescu: well, the romanians have ipods like any other marginal civilised place : well in excessd of need.

21:36:22 mircea_popescu: still won't queue.

21:36:26 mircea_popescu: so yes, that's what it did.

21:37:01 asciilifeform: interesting. when i went to c2, i did not see any crowd dense enough to even think about queues, so can't say i saw it alive.

21:37:03 mircea_popescu: and it goes directly to the previously hinted thing re sicily, ie http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-09-2015#1270273

21:37:03 assbot: Logged on 11-09-2015 10:00:26; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2015#1269929 << that's rank nonsense, but the exact discussion of why and how "studies" about sicily aren't worth the paper they're printed on is too long for me now

21:37:05 asciilifeform: but will believe.

21:37:17 mircea_popescu: you can obviously either have independence or the fake growth of govt sponsored ponzi participation.

21:37:20 mircea_popescu: you can't have both.

21:37:32 mircea_popescu: look that sicily hasn't fallen into the ocean, like syria hasn't, like etc.

21:37:38 mircea_popescu: look that iraq is still there.

21:38:02 asciilifeform: 'the art of not being governed' was half about this and specifically this.

21:38:15 asciilifeform: scholars from 'civilization' think in terms of bizarre chimeras like 'failed state'

21:38:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well i didn't take you to the subway and i guess you didn't have the curiosity to go on own hm.

21:38:26 asciilifeform: which is a euphemism for freedom.

21:38:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: everybody was in the fscking church

21:38:36 mircea_popescu: aha. what state has failed ? austro hungary failed. soviet russia failed. soon the us will have failed.

21:38:43 mircea_popescu: leaving behind... the things that were always there.

21:40:02 mircea_popescu: meanwhile california is just about to fall into the fucking ocean. oddly enough. problems it didn't have as a "failed state", it has in abundance as a whatever it is.

21:40:15 mircea_popescu: successful nonstate i guess.

21:41:01 asciilifeform: if ca were to drown overnight, it could extend the empire's lease on life by many years...

21:41:23 mircea_popescu: you're thinking the people.

21:41:31 asciilifeform: aha

21:41:32 mircea_popescu: whereas sicily is not the people, it is "the land".

21:42:05 mircea_popescu: in a very peculiar sense that includes the sea, which is a large part of why i think la tera trema such a major point in art.

21:42:28 asciilifeform: very sharp emphasis on this in jp

21:46:20 mircea_popescu: https://gnunet.org/ev << relatively little relation to rms/fsf. our friends the diddled in diddly-germany.

21:46:20 assbot: Verein zur Förderung von GNUnet e.V. | GNUnet ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4nOdy )

21:46:35 *: asciilifeform recalls gnunet

21:46:50 mircea_popescu: this is unrelated.

21:47:11 mircea_popescu: just some derpy project manager at some derpy french state taxburner feeling uppity.

21:47:19 asciilifeform: ah hm.

21:47:25 mircea_popescu: (Institut National de Recherche en Informatique et en Automatique)

21:47:45 mircea_popescu: http://grothoff.org/christian/grothoff.jpg << this fellow specifically.

21:47:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4nPxZ )

21:47:56 asciilifeform: inria is a kind of burned out husk of something great, sorta like mit

21:48:13 mircea_popescu: well the comparison is u of maryland

21:48:20 asciilifeform: one of the few and abortive lisp strongholds in eu

21:51:58 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271119 << perl, 'graph-easy' ??

21:51:58 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 06:57:48; mod6: not even close to done yet, but these ascii graphs look kinda neat: http://dpaste.com/3DBXKQX.txt

21:54:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271097 << maths are not for the 'agricultural faces.'

21:54:39 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 06:28:45; mircea_popescu: the geometric notion of the point, and the geometric notion of a line, and the geometric notion of a plane, and the geometric notion of wolfram's mother impaled on a triple cheeseburger ALL SATISFY THIS DEFINITION

21:54:56 asciilifeform: any more than music, or bitcoin, or particle physic, or, or.

21:55:12 mircea_popescu: romanian being, "fata de impins vagoane".

21:55:24 asciilifeform: 'train propulsion face' ?

21:55:25 asciilifeform: l0l

21:55:34 mircea_popescu: railcar pushing face.

21:56:35 mircea_popescu: somehow this doesn't carry in translation, but in the original the very strong implicit bias is that the pushing is to be done with the very face in question.

21:56:41 asciilifeform: how else ??!!!

21:56:49 asciilifeform: i can't picture it any other way

21:57:15 mircea_popescu: in english the bias is more towards gunnery sgt hartmann's "gimme your war face".

21:57:52 mircea_popescu: which would be "the face you make while being engaged in war" not "the very face you shoot at people"

21:58:01 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va56WrfyKkE << ftr.

21:58:01 assbot: Gunnery Sgt. Hartman German/Deutsch - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kiql4z )

21:58:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271113 << this. with the added step that some of us go to little outpost of 'where we do', surrounded by a gigantic soul-sucking vacuum of where nobody ever could remotely wish to. and hope that the airlock doesn't fail.

21:58:07 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 06:41:58; mircea_popescu: see, this is the problem. we go around like we're all people and shit. but then some of us go home to where we know what fractals are, and some of us go to whatever that is, where they don't.

21:58:42 asciilifeform: but yes, i too would like to 'go home to where we know what fractal is.'

21:59:05 mircea_popescu: so teach the girl.

21:59:08 asciilifeform: i suppose this could be on the planet in poul anderson's 'brainwave.' but not on earth.

21:59:12 mircea_popescu: what the fuck are men for even, if not to teach the woman!

21:59:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: girl is well taught.

21:59:16 mircea_popescu: so then.

22:16:55 mircea_popescu: phf: well, i have a 2.4 box that runs "if your dodgy stack fails, this must remain" operations, like email << this design hasn't been recently reviewed i would guess.

22:17:00 *: mircea_popescu wiped email from his list.

22:18:14 mircea_popescu: "my gimp 1.2 is as good as your photoshop" rms style << i still maintain pretty much any version of gimp is better than photohsop.

22:19:24 mircea_popescu: it doesn't work for "filthy casual" that wishes to pretend like he's doing serious work while really not doing much of anything. but otherwise, if you are actually goin gto do serious work, it is by far a better use of your time to work the parenscripts of gimp into the shape you need them to be with the guarantee you will be agle to get there,

22:20:04 mircea_popescu: than to derp around in a labirinth of ps "features" that aren't even exposed properly (you want me to... click ? seriously ?) and with a cvasi-guarantee you will not be able to do it, but have to settle on "this is how we do it in ps".

22:20:13 mircea_popescu: which settlement is the exact antithesis of art, for the record.

22:21:24 mircea_popescu: in other words, the only people who benefit from the "easier to use" iconographic interface of mcdonalds cash register are both illiterate and noit actually involved in the restaurant business.

22:21:54 mircea_popescu: yes, it's true that for a majority of people out there, the existence of the sandwich would stay a mystery lest they saw it drawn on a key on their cash register.

22:22:10 mircea_popescu: but those people are "lest concern" as they say about overrepresented, nuisance species.

22:22:42 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shTHYYg5050 << if you're not up for gimp, there's always 'ipad pro' with 'pencil' ;/

22:22:43 assbot: Hands on: iPad Pro and Apple Pencil with Adobe Sketch, iOS 9 Markup - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwkqK7 )

22:22:52 mircea_popescu: or guitar hero.

22:23:54 mircea_popescu: people find it uncontroversial that lamp amp is better than cpu amp. i've seen people gush over 1990s state of the art computerized algebraic systems.

22:24:11 mircea_popescu: yet somehow the point that there is no possibility of value even outside of gimp stays elusive. yet it's the same damned thing.

22:24:35 pete_dushenski: hey now, at least you save your scribblings on 'ipad pro'. guitar hero only gives high scores

22:25:16 pete_dushenski: !s lamp amp

22:25:17 assbot: 0 results for 'lamp amp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lamp+amp

22:25:41 cazalla: gimp is pimp in otherwords and no fucking around with adobe activation and t3h cloud ver of photoshop

22:26:22 pete_dushenski: is there a cloud photoshop now ?

22:26:38 phf: i've realized that a lot of my systems anxiety comes from trying to be "filthy casual" with a lot of technology i have no business in. in my case comes from 90s tradition of buying all manner of pirated software on the way home from school. "today i'll learn 3ds max and tomorrow autocad"

22:26:41 mircea_popescu: and to settle this once and for all : http://minigame.bz/download_button.png << say i want this. here's the gimp script that does it : http://dpaste.com/22S0MW2 it's 20 years old by now. show me the ps equivalent.

22:26:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwkMQO )

22:26:44 assbot: dpaste: 22S0MW2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwkKZ3 )

22:26:44 pete_dushenski: for what, ipods with 8gb hds ?

22:26:47 cazalla: pete_dushenski, with added monthly subscription!

22:27:57 cazalla: http://www.adobe.com/au/creativecloud.html $49.99/month (AUD pricing, no doubt will be $5USD)

22:27:58 assbot: Software and services for creative professionals | Adobe Creative Cloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwkRUB )

22:27:59 pete_dushenski: hey, if it works for iphn0e 6s..

22:28:09 pete_dushenski: not cheap either eh

22:28:22 pete_dushenski: fuck stupid americans and their monthly everything payments

22:28:30 mircea_popescu: phf and there's nothing wrong with the process per se, as a distraction. but you have to admit the only way it was an acceptable behaviour when you were 16 was because YOU ALSO WENT OT SCHOOL.

22:28:44 pete_dushenski: "why own x when you can make payments for the rest of your life!" (tm)

22:28:49 mircea_popescu: had you just quit school to focus on your learning 3dmax full time like the retarded us kids, your dad'd have had your hide.

22:29:17 phf: quitting school? that's a paddling

22:29:29 pete_dushenski: what happened to old grandmas and grandpas who saved up and bought houses, cars, etc. ALL CASH

22:29:48 mircea_popescu: progress

22:29:58 mircea_popescu: phf i don't mean cutting class. i mean quitting. permanently.

22:30:21 pete_dushenski: right, finance your own future and that of your children = progress

22:30:24 mircea_popescu: principal calls parents over, ifnorms them that you told him you intend to quit school and he agrees, and you're henceforth expelled from all schools forever.

22:30:41 mircea_popescu: so they don't get in the way of autocad learnings!

22:30:46 mircea_popescu: and creativitits

22:32:02 cazalla: gotta go through bezzlar wringer of naughty boy schools, career counselling and other make work positions before principal gets the parents in the office mircea_popescu ,least that was my experience

22:32:11 pete_dushenski: this failing to compute really is through and through with usians, right from basic algebra up to software, hardware, the whole gammut, etfc.

22:32:50 mircea_popescu: cazalla specialised timewasters these people huh.

22:33:51 phf: i've cut classes plenty, but i don't think i've ever even contemplated quitting school, what am i going to do, sell lavash? it was kind of understood that people who were pushed out (never nobody quit because they wanted to) were losers

22:34:15 cazalla: mircea_popescu, yeah pretty much, could've left in 1997 but they managed to stretch it out to 1999

22:34:23 mircea_popescu: well yeah. so that fixed formal pillar is WHAT ALLOWED benefit in the pursuit of "learning 3dmax"

22:35:22 mircea_popescu: cazalla note tho, that the school he went to, and the school you went to, were very different beasts. i suspect you'd have loved his.

22:37:54 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell trinque cheers !

22:37:55 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:37:59 *: trinque tips hat

22:38:32 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell kakobrekla grazie !

22:38:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:38:42 kakobrekla: prego

22:38:55 pete_dushenski: you guys are the best :)

22:39:12 cazalla: mircea_popescu, perhaps, mine was a shitty public school, missus was exclusive private and seems to be that is just another type of bezzle (all students must go to uni to get loaded up on debt type thing)

22:39:44 *: shinohai drinks a toast to pete_dushenski

22:40:09 mircea_popescu: cazalla from what i gather he went to russian public school in the 80s, which im sure is very close to romanian public school in the 80s, which has absolutely zero to do with anything you might call school in any perspective.

22:41:04 mircea_popescu: academically, it would be ivy league college. sexually, it would be u of arizona during spring break. socially it would be prison, except with regards to the adults it would be the 1960s paris uprising.

22:41:37 trinque: I went to a "magnet school" in TX, was bored out of my mind except for various acts of resistance through adolescence

22:41:44 mircea_popescu: out of these much too disparate elements i scarcely see how one who no fue ya could construct something whole in his head.

22:41:45 trinque: public university, same

22:42:31 phf: there's no equivalent in u.s., i've not seen anything remotely similar yet anyway. particularly those dedicated "nerd schools"

22:42:32 mircea_popescu: trinque throughout my hs i was what you'd call a honors student with ~1/3 attendance.

22:42:48 mircea_popescu: (which means i averaged ~10 hours a week)

22:43:09 pete_dushenski: shinohai: bottoms up :D

22:43:10 trinque: I was barely mentally present, near-perfect marks and a free ride into college

22:43:15 trinque: which was worth precisely zilch

22:43:20 mircea_popescu: nonono, i was mentally present

22:43:24 mircea_popescu: just wasn't physically there.

22:43:41 trinque: I was only permitted this in senior year, and unofficially

22:43:49 trinque: and only in the mornings

22:43:53 mircea_popescu: well i didn't ask anybody for permission.

22:44:57 phf: i had fake medical scripts..

22:45:04 trinque: ^

22:45:07 trinque: we got into some fun of that nature in the last two years. one can learn a lot about computers bored as hell in TX public school, if he's awake

22:45:30 mircea_popescu: but the real difficulty, is explaining the actual reality to people who already have been suplied a falsificating convention to misinterpret it with. like the case above discussed with the purpose of the railcar pushing face.

22:45:53 mircea_popescu: for instance : a guy i've recently talked to again after many years, who is now a reasonably respected thinker in his field,

22:46:07 mircea_popescu: brought an airgun to school, and shot a nutsized hole in the blackboard.

22:46:36 mircea_popescu: a) nobody cared and b) this really was more in line with "chemistry experiment" than whatever orc derpage goes on in us ghetto.

22:46:44 trinque: not a terrorist charge eh?

22:46:49 cazalla: i brought a screwdriver in the early 90s.. confiscated, parents called

22:46:59 mircea_popescu: understand. it was a rifle.

22:47:06 mircea_popescu: with scope and all.

22:47:12 trinque: my friend was busted for precisely that, some kind of "cyber terrorism" for sending a joke threat email with the headers changed to look like it came from faculty

22:47:25 cazalla: flogged.. took a while for me to figure out my father did that not for anything related to taking the screwdriver to school

22:48:09 mircea_popescu: i suppose the only people in a similar position are the ex terrorist israelis.

22:48:16 phf: we brought these all through highschool, http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Osxvvm0Yu74/hqdefault.jpg i actually do have a note in my "personal file" for throwing those into teachers from the top of a entrance

22:48:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwmUYI )

22:49:01 mircea_popescu: yeah, cause the teacher was this "placeholder enemy" of sorts. like cats play with the nail sharpening pole.

22:49:22 mircea_popescu: fine and quite healthy for adolescent boys to have planned out how to massacre the lot of them.

22:49:42 cazalla: trinque, i threatened to shoot a bunch of kids at my school via icq.. made front page of local rag and blurred out face on local tv, no name though :\ probably get 10 years like that isis kid these days

22:49:46 mircea_popescu: just as long as they don't get carried away.

22:49:49 trinque: mircea_popescu: that was the thing criminalized at my public school, certainly

22:49:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00075691 = 8.7045 BTC [+]

22:50:33 mircea_popescu: trinque well yeah, because the usg has figured that hey, we don't keep males for the herds of goats, sheep, cattle etc except maybe 1:100. with modern insemination techniques more like 1:500. why should we keep so many males in human herd ?

22:50:43 mircea_popescu: they can either transsexualize or perish, whatevs. how's the soy crops ?

22:50:58 kakobrekla: >throwing those into teachers from the top of a entrance < o yeah i did that too. only in elementary.

22:51:10 kakobrekla: bomb the fuckers you know?

22:51:14 mircea_popescu: lol

22:51:28 trinque: "schools... out... forever"

22:51:31 mircea_popescu: yugoslovaks, fucking violent i tell you.

22:52:25 phf: kakobrekla: i did that grade 9 i think, which was apparently not age appropriate

22:52:28 mircea_popescu: ah such great country names for a book these'd be. checkoslavia. yugoslovakia. austrogermany.

22:52:48 phf: but the whole punishment lasted maybe half hour! "the incident has been noted in your personal file", not even parents called

22:53:06 mircea_popescu: phf regarding it with adult eyes... it is kinda not age appropriate neh ?

22:53:31 trinque: I once found a trivial flaw in a java applet some idiot put together for a "mock 2004 presidential election"

22:53:40 cazalla: i regret that high school was not similar to this place.. come each day because i want to as do other students as do other teachers, actually learn something type of thing

22:53:44 trinque: thing supposedly prevented double voting in the UI but just posted http integers somewhere

22:54:20 trinque: so I showed people how to do that, ended up kerry was some absurdly high number, bush was negative same

22:54:28 trinque: they wanted to expel me for that one

22:54:30 cazalla: some students earn A's while others can only earn C's type of thing we have here, whereas in public high school - all must strive to earn A's while none actually can

22:54:55 trinque: *posted integers over http

22:55:14 mircea_popescu: trinque because why ?

22:55:31 trinque: mircea_popescu: because hacker. and spreading hacking!

22:55:57 trinque: the "tech head of whatever" emailed the angry bureaucrat and explained that it was not even hacking

22:56:21 mircea_popescu: cazalla the irony being that once that's on the ground, the actual ideal the progres derp about is readily realised.

22:56:36 mircea_popescu: o, hacking is bad now ?!

22:56:44 trinque: being curious at all

22:56:48 trinque: and especially jokes

22:56:59 mircea_popescu: sounds pretty boring.

22:58:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271509 << you know how deepthroat was made right ?

22:58:12 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 18:07:41; asciilifeform: what great cultural products ought i look for from the sellers of crack ?

22:59:50 phf: i remember that we were actually taught how to properly treat teachers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcZgoOyalaI amusingly i'd never seen that short on tv, it would always play during "entertainment break" when they would send us to a school movie hall to watch random stuff

22:59:51 assbot: Ералаш. 40 чертей и одна зеленая муха (1984 год Выпуск № 46 Сюжет № 2) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QwnW74 )

23:01:56 phf: the title is "40 devils and one green fly"

23:02:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.0007546 = 25.0905 BTC [-] {3}

23:02:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271542 << so far the anglos seem to have come out defeated from that war.

23:02:34 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 18:17:58; asciilifeform: then they lost a war and got culturally annihilated and enslaved by the anglos.

23:02:49 mircea_popescu: suffice it to say your interpretation of history is far from uncontroversial.

23:03:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271551 << there is, actually. harem. the romans you mentioned did this deliberately, it was called "veteran settlement".

23:03:50 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 18:20:42; asciilifeform: trinque: there is not a handy answer to 'what should culture man stuck in a dying civilization do'

23:06:27 mircea_popescu: http://www.personal.psu.edu/axk29/audience.jpg << let's play "guess who/what"

23:08:48 trinque: I'm going with PSU professors receiving LGBBQT sensitivity training.

23:09:00 mircea_popescu: audience at 2013 brin prize.

23:11:06 phf: that's actually mikhail brin in checkered shirt on the left of the large woman in questionable outfit

23:12:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271583 << this is common.

23:12:11 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 19:09:30; asciilifeform: i, for instance, can't think about any deep problem when in a place where human speech is happening, or bodies are in motion.

23:12:24 mircea_popescu: i've dealt out reprimands for moving at the wrong time etc.

23:13:05 mircea_popescu: phf so it is. i find it an excellent picture because it so drastically sets him apart.

23:13:08 mircea_popescu: thought alf'd like it./

23:13:15 cazalla: check out asian beaker in the middle

23:14:41 mircea_popescu: (the other thing is that while the audience is struggly to follow [some appear to merely struggle to appear to be struggling to follow], or to even see, brin has this very clearly cut disapproving disappointment on his face, like a major stupidity was just uttered and well... they'll never know.

23:14:45 mircea_popescu: indeed we do not.)

23:16:56 mircea_popescu: but anyway, a better question, who's the hottie in the gray shirt.

23:23:51 mircea_popescu: "To get Heaviside away from Newton Abbot, his brother Charles arranged for him to live with his sister-in-law, Mary Way, at her home in Devon. Since Mary lived alone, having the eccentric Heaviside live upstairs from her seemed like a good idea. Unfortunately, things got even more bizarre at that point. Heaviside insisted on treating Mary as a slave despite her being the owner of the house. Not only did he order

23:23:51 mircea_popescu: her to write to her friends and family and insist that they not visit her, he also demanded that she never leave the house without permission. The exact reason for his possessiveness is not really clear considering that he was largely asexual throughout his lifetime. Still, his brutal treatment of Mary Way or why she allowed the abuse to continue seems impossible to understand even today."

23:23:52 mircea_popescu: o.O

23:23:54 mircea_popescu: i had nfi ?!

23:24:46 mircea_popescu: "Friends were astonished that Mary allowed her house guest to control her. They were even more astonished when she showed them the contract that Heaviside had insisted she sign which, among other clauses stipulated that:

23:24:46 mircea_popescu: Mary Way agrees to wear warm woolen underclothing and keep herself warm in winter. Mary Way agrees never to go out without Oliver Heaviside's permission. Mary Way agrees never to give anything away without Oliver Heaviside's permission.

23:24:46 mircea_popescu: He did whatever he could to enforce the clauses of the contract, including taking away Mary's shoes to keep her from leaving the house without permission."

23:25:19 mircea_popescu: see, cause originalyl you'd think autism. but...

23:29:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30777 @ 0.00075898 = 23.3591 BTC [+] {3}

23:40:13 pete_dushenski: cazalla: any idea why the footnote brackets after "wrecking" show up on the preview of that last qntra article but not on the full page ?

23:42:14 cazalla: lemme check, might need a space or something

23:44:23 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Never thought I'd see my hometown mentioned on #b-a..

23:45:57 pete_dushenski: "“Black Twitter” may be infamous for scorning white women like Rachel Dolezal who think they are black, but it has also pioneered the idea of hashtag activism, such as #SayHerName, which highlighted the invisibility of black women in discussions of police violence in black communities, or #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen, with its allusion to tensions between black and white feminists, to offer but two examples."

23:45:57 pete_dushenski: << way to blaze dem trails

23:47:15 cazalla: pete_dushenski, is that right now?

23:47:55 pete_dushenski: is the word 'pioneer' really so ambigious that michael eric dyson honestly beleebs it applies to 'black twitter's hashtag activism' ?

23:48:04 williamdunne: Newton Abbot has 12 people, and I'm one of them

23:48:28 pete_dushenski: cazalla: it's timeless, like being endarkened.

23:48:41 pete_dushenski: as it always is and must always be.

23:49:09 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271589 < actually i know of a few slovenians remoting to work for mericans pulling north of 10k/mo (which is 5 times what they would get here)

23:49:09 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 19:20:34; asciilifeform: if you ask for a closing door, or to work remotely, it is usually seen as a demand to play tetris instead of work.

23:49:57 pete_dushenski: "a cohort of what I would like to call the “black digital intelligentsia” has emerged. They wrestle with ideas, stake out political territory, and lead, very much in the same way that my generation did, only without needing, or necessarily wanting, a home in the Ivy League—and by making their name online."

23:50:16 cazalla: pete_dushenski, your article i mean

23:50:52 pete_dushenski: cazalla: aha. that. yes, looks to be fixed from my end. thx!

23:51:55 pete_dushenski: next time : specify 'that' and s/right/correct and i won't be so cofuzed