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Transcript for 12-11-2014, 1400 lines:

00:01:19 scoopbot: New post on The Whet by han@thewhet: http://thewhet.net/2014/thinking-you-can-infer-the-meaning-of-new-words-still-eviling-strong/

00:14:15 mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-thorny-problem-of-violence-or-the-miracle-of-the-talking-ass/ << the 8th note you will prolly find of interest.

00:14:15 assbot: The thorny problem of violence, or the miracle of the talking ass. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

00:16:41 RagnarDanneskjol: oh yes very interesting indeed - I read it before - always get more the second time around. thank

00:17:35 mircea_popescu: i just published it

00:18:25 RagnarDanneskjol: oh -the title looked familiar

00:19:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if orlov's a paid muppet, when do i get paid.

00:19:50 mircea_popescu: why would you get paid ?

00:19:57 asciilifeform: (what's sadder, paid shilling, or pro bono muppetry?)

00:20:12 mircea_popescu: i don't see you churning out an article a week about how "evil nato" and "nice putin"

00:20:21 mircea_popescu: muppetry is hard work yo.

00:20:28 asciilifeform: mostly on account of i can't be bothered to give a shit.

00:20:32 mircea_popescu: well ?

00:20:39 mircea_popescu: so then, again...why would you get paid ?

00:20:39 asciilifeform: but i give enough of a miniature shit to link mr. o

00:20:42 asciilifeform: lol

00:20:59 mircea_popescu: so wait, you COULD be a tailor ? cuz yo usorta like cut stuff now and again ?

00:21:10 mircea_popescu: this is your argument for payment ?

00:21:15 asciilifeform: 'whore, on account of the equipment' heh.

00:21:22 mircea_popescu: quite.

00:23:14 RagnarDanneskjol: this is the one i was thinking of http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-problem-of-enforcement/ - also worth rereading

00:23:14 assbot: The problem of enforcement pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

00:23:23 mircea_popescu: ah.

00:23:42 gernika: Was Orlov paid first, and then he started writing? Or the other way around?

00:23:43 asciilifeform: iirc that's the one where 'we need a new fleanode'

00:23:57 gernika: Blog until you make it?

00:24:26 mircea_popescu: gernika the kgb does not recruit nobodies for this role.

00:25:21 mircea_popescu: either he's an officer, which is weird, but weird is not new in the game ; or else he's just yet another aspiring-talking head, except not working for X company but Y, or else i'm wrong.

00:25:58 gernika: I could see him as the "social media" branch of a wider effort that includes RT.

00:26:24 mircea_popescu: me too.

00:26:32 mircea_popescu: has he ever linked to rt ?

00:26:43 asciilifeform: let's posit paid muppetry. what is the client getting for his money?

00:26:50 mircea_popescu: "buzz"

00:27:06 asciilifeform: 'demoralize decadent west.' but why take a contract out on a corpse?

00:27:08 mircea_popescu: what does any other derp paying for "online marketing" ?

00:27:20 mircea_popescu: it's not quite as simple as all that.

00:27:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember that rather accurate depiction of "typical agent" ?

00:27:45 asciilifeform: aha.

00:27:47 mircea_popescu: how the fuck do you expect to reach him ?

00:27:51 asciilifeform: the one with the junkyard, yes

00:27:55 mircea_popescu: well ?

00:28:10 asciilifeform: that one had a perfectly pedestrian military logic.

00:28:14 asciilifeform: what's the logic here?

00:28:23 mircea_popescu: if you wish to reach those guys, how do you do it ?

00:28:31 mircea_popescu: put up a craigslist ad ?

00:28:36 mircea_popescu: do it on reddit ? on twitter ?

00:28:43 mircea_popescu: your best bet is exactly what orlov is doing.

00:28:54 asciilifeform: in the classic book, you had a fella going up to the junkyard keeper, offering him a bag of benjies 'for almost nothing'

00:28:58 mircea_popescu: sorta fringe-y, sorta-angry but not really, "let's make a new alphabet"

00:30:53 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-thorny-problem-of-violence-or-the-miracle-of-the-talking-ass/

00:31:09 gernika: !s typical agent

00:31:10 assbot: 0 results for 'typical agent' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=typical+agent

00:31:33 asciilifeform: gernika: http://militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov6/08.html

00:31:40 asciilifeform: (the piece in question)

00:32:13 asciilifeform: 'A portrait of an ideal agent for spetsnaz emerges something like this: a man of between fifty-five and sixty-five years of age who has never served in the army, never had access to secret documents, does not carry or own a weapon, knows nothing about hand-to-hand fighting, does not possess any secret equipment and doesn't support the Comunists, does not read the newspapers, was never in the Soviet Union and ha

00:32:14 asciilifeform: s never met any Soviet citizens, leads a lonely, introspective life, far from other people, and is by profession a forester, fisherman, lighthouse-keeper, security guard or railwayman. In many cases such an agent will be a physical invalid...'

00:33:36 asciilifeform: the piece concerned folks who were given the job of preparing hidey-holes and providing materiel, however

00:33:40 asciilifeform: rather than 'influence agents'

00:33:46 asciilifeform: so perhaps mircea_popescu was thinking of another.

00:33:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform again, how do you FIND these guys ?

00:34:04 asciilifeform: legwork.

00:34:13 BingoBoingo: !s Hal Turner

00:34:14 assbot: 2 results for 'Hal Turner' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Hal+Turner

00:34:14 asciilifeform: same way i might find a mechanic

00:34:22 asciilifeform: or drywall master

00:34:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically, legwork. orlov's blog, is that legwork ?

00:34:50 asciilifeform: let's play this 'chess' a few moves in

00:34:55 asciilifeform: say one bites.

00:35:04 gernika: Orlov reminds me of detective who has you in the interrogation room. He somehow befriends himself to you and makes you think he wants to help you. He lays out your options. Cooperate and you get life. Otherwise death.

00:35:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha ?

00:35:36 asciilifeform: picture the letter: 'dear mr.o, where can i park my mystery crate that certainly does not contain a rocket launcher.'

00:35:42 asciilifeform: or the like.

00:36:41 asciilifeform: unless i dramatically fail to grok how this works, a public blog is very much not the correct tool in the box for this.

00:36:41 mircea_popescu: let's model it properly. you're the kgb special assets chain of command, and i'm orlov.

00:36:58 mircea_popescu: now, propose a situation, sketch a plan and give me an order.

00:37:27 asciilifeform: i thought the hypothetical was that mr. o is the commander.

00:37:39 mircea_popescu: lol get out.

00:37:39 asciilifeform: or at least a controlled muppet

00:37:43 mircea_popescu: well yes.

00:38:06 mircea_popescu: think cc server - rooted box. i'm the rooted box. say something to me!

00:38:11 asciilifeform: so, let's cast mr. o as muppet in charge of volunteer recruitment.

00:38:25 asciilifeform: moscow says 'find us some useful morons'

00:38:36 mircea_popescu: error #1 : unspecific command ; ignoring.

00:39:22 asciilifeform: moscow: 'we need to park a http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-11-2014#917246 within 10km of 'camp david.''

00:39:22 assbot: Logged on 11-11-2014 15:03:50; asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXWJrpA8FnE

00:40:02 mircea_popescu: select from blog_derps where location within 50 miles and factor 1..n in $criteria or has car etc

00:41:09 asciilifeform: except that if mr. o were so 'open' to volunteers, he'd be grunting in the oubliette with mr. nyc deathray

00:41:21 mircea_popescu: obviously.

00:41:33 mircea_popescu: but this is a technical objection.

00:41:47 mircea_popescu: if the car worked on an ideal carnot cycle it'd be pretty much fireworks show

00:42:05 asciilifeform: so one would have to posit some magic-trick in his pocket to explain why he is still around and kicking.

00:42:58 mircea_popescu: maybe he's not done anything useful yet.

00:43:02 mircea_popescu: maybe he's been lucky so far

00:43:18 mircea_popescu: who the fuck knows, it's a shitty life the junkies, whores and assets lead.

00:43:29 asciilifeform: not saying that this is an impossible picture.

00:43:52 asciilifeform: just that it fails on a few basics. for one thing, ru recruiters traditionally false-flag.

00:44:17 asciilifeform: (bugger: 'i wouldn't work for no russian scum' agent: 'aha, but we're mossad, friendlies, dontchaknow')

00:45:31 mircea_popescu: i haven't a clue if they mostly do or don't.

00:45:36 BingoBoingo: Why won't people learn to pastebin: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2L0hRICAAAAKSg.png:large

00:45:38 mircea_popescu: which year is this ?

00:46:28 mircea_popescu: "a stunted copulation between a woman who hadn?t been laid in decades and a man who interrogated mattress springs for a living"

00:46:33 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell hanbot win

00:46:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:48:51 asciilifeform: (most folks, apparently, feel less 'edgy' re: the idea of muppeting for a small-time intelligence agency, than ru or us)

00:50:01 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you happen to have a w4r3z link to 'running rings of spies' by 'paladin press', it has some (authenticated and not) case studies.

00:51:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most folk get this idea that "they're in control of their own life" and that "they won't have to do anything they don't want to do" and so...

00:51:14 asciilifeform: very elegantly described in that tome.

00:51:16 mircea_popescu: what's the worst that can happen. and nobody reads anyway, and who's going to figure anything out

00:51:18 mircea_popescu: or keep tabs.

00:51:24 asciilifeform: in a, i dare say, psychiatric style.

00:51:45 asciilifeform: (an intelligence case officer is a kind of psychiatrist, in the same sense that a sniper is a type of surgeon)

00:52:38 mircea_popescu: i like it when hirelings go "hello micrea". on a first name basis with people you don't even know the first name of ? way to fail multiple times per line!

00:52:50 asciilifeform: micrea?!

00:53:30 mircea_popescu: apparently.

00:53:37 mircea_popescu: snatislav!

00:53:45 BingoBoingo: Micrea is the cleanshaven alternate universe version

00:53:58 mircea_popescu: maybe it should be my stage name. Mic Rhea

00:54:01 *: asciilifeform has read such letters, yes

00:54:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least it didn't get all the way to snotislav or something

00:54:34 asciilifeform: 'they called him rheostat. for the knob he twisted to turn up the current when they ended up in his chair.'

00:55:49 ben_vulpes: rheostan

00:55:53 thestringpuller: !s from:asciilifeform regex

00:55:54 assbot: 0 results for 'from:asciilifeform regex' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+regex

00:56:05 asciilifeform: regex?

00:56:09 thestringpuller: ^- did i do it wrong

00:56:26 undata: thestringpuller: wrong string.

00:57:05 thestringpuller: undata: did they remove the from: tag?

00:57:11 thestringpuller: there is to:

00:57:14 undata: thestringpuller: not a clue

00:57:31 thestringpuller: ~_~

00:58:09 asciilifeform: 'ring of spies' << when does #b-a get own w4r3z ftp?

00:59:03 asciilifeform: 'instant file hosting' crud - sucks.

00:59:16 undata: asciilifeform: spend magnet links into the blockchain?

00:59:23 undata: maybe I'll write that this weekend

00:59:31 asciilifeform: magnet links << and who seeds? you?

00:59:48 undata: asciilifeform: same question as who hosts, isn't it?

00:59:57 undata: of course you could get fancier and do some darknet thing

01:00:31 asciilifeform: point is not even entirely to host w4r3z - this is not an entirely unsolved problem - but to demonstrate 'fortress.'

01:00:41 thestringpuller: torrent boxes paid for with btc

01:01:00 asciilifeform: expensive proposition if they have short life expectancy.

01:01:06 ben_vulpes: temporary storage paid for with btc

01:01:29 asciilifeform: see above

01:01:31 thestringpuller: host on #b-a satellite in space

01:02:00 asciilifeform: lol.

01:02:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not so sure there's that much validity to that demonstration.

01:02:39 mircea_popescu: the entire us carrier approach to war is expensive and unwieldy.

01:02:44 asciilifeform: not only this, but it helps to be able to link to a document in a thread.

01:03:01 asciilifeform: instead of crapping out a 'go find it, it's there somewhere on the net'

01:03:09 mircea_popescu: anything specific ?

01:03:14 asciilifeform: 'spies'

01:03:22 mircea_popescu: the thing linked above ?

01:03:25 asciilifeform: aha

01:03:32 asciilifeform: a curious little vintage monograph

01:03:43 mircea_popescu: so what's the problem ?

01:03:58 asciilifeform: iirc i posted it once, to a 'file host' thing, but of course long gone.

01:04:12 BingoBoingo: I've located a copy. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=running+rings+of+spies+kickass.to&t=canonical

01:04:13 assbot: running rings of spies kickass.to at DuckDuckGo

01:04:23 mircea_popescu: !s suvorov6

01:04:23 assbot: 0 results for 'suvorov6' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=suvorov6

01:04:33 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that's not a copy

01:04:46 mircea_popescu: dat tokenization. anyway, iirc it was on the same place last tiem

01:04:54 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the top link is to a torrent which may or may not be alive

01:05:02 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's a path that leads to a copy, that lives

01:05:07 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and may or may not be the actual scan or a questionable ocr turd

01:05:20 BingoBoingo: Pretty shitty photoscan, but scan

01:05:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i want to link to an actual document. with a known sha2.

01:05:32 asciilifeform: or it isn't a real discussion.

01:05:43 *: undata will just write said magnet link thing and report back

01:05:46 BingoBoingo: That's a harder problem.

01:06:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lemme see here.

01:06:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a different piece, not suvorov

01:06:21 undata: seems like seeding a trackerless torrent with your thing and a signature of the thing solves this

01:06:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: american 'can't say exactly who i was' vietnam vet.

01:06:40 mircea_popescu: the ideal would be to have a permanent file storage that works by incrementally adding chickens to the task

01:06:52 mircea_popescu: but taking chickens away degrades performance but not storage ?

01:06:58 asciilifeform: aha.

01:07:02 BingoBoingo: Known sha2 for scans of print text is a very hard problem unless designated agent goes to Paladin press, buys dead trees, and signs hashlists

01:07:14 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: easy problem if canonical scan.

01:07:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the other way.

01:07:18 asciilifeform: as in, the one you and i read.

01:07:20 mircea_popescu: just make a scan.

01:08:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, there is a lot of overlap between the problem of packing bits and the problems of blockchain and crypto isn;'t there.

01:08:12 asciilifeform: packing bits?

01:08:18 mircea_popescu: lzw or w/e

01:08:47 asciilifeform: the spittoon is all in one strand, yes

01:09:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but perhaps you had something more specific in mind

01:09:12 mircea_popescu: well, the problem ehre is this : immutable datastore comes with the problem of, who may add to it.

01:09:20 mircea_popescu: if not, straight to spam pile.

01:09:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i assume you studied some of the known bitcoin predecessors.

01:09:39 BingoBoingo: Fuck, whoever made this scan isn't very good at the whole scanning books business

01:09:46 asciilifeform: there was one called 'eternity'

01:09:49 mircea_popescu: myeah.

01:10:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in short, your complaint is legitimate but the solution unobvious.

01:10:18 asciilifeform: in fact, many folks arrived at 'proof of work' and something akin to our current concept of 'blockchain' by attempting to answer the 'who gets to add bits' question.

01:10:49 asciilifeform: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/eternity/eternity.html

01:10:51 asciilifeform: ^ that one.

01:11:05 asciilifeform: and a few others

01:11:19 asciilifeform: ('eternity' was one of the more braindamaged ones, so perhaps that wasn't it)

01:11:51 mircea_popescu: problem goes deeper : if "who can add is finite" then you have a point of failure baked in quite nastily.

01:12:06 asciilifeform: aha.

01:12:39 mircea_popescu: for that matter, the current state of the web, 50% or more linkrotted away

01:12:45 mircea_popescu: is clear testament to this being a major problem.

01:12:51 mircea_popescu: i know i've ranted about it on occasion.

01:13:21 asciilifeform: it's a serious problem, and folks who don't routinely discuss 20+ year old, moderately-obscure documents don't even know the beginning of it.

01:13:45 asciilifeform: it goes beyond 'where do i put l337 w4r3z'

01:14:17 mircea_popescu: how about this canonical formulation of it : most of what i know i know alone, because the "internet" is made out of knowledge in the sense the earth is made out of grass.

01:14:18 asciilifeform: warez censor is not the only mouse in the warehouse. there's moth and dust, father time.

01:14:20 undata: asciilifeform: what about torrent sites with seed ratio requirements? They seem to have done well as archives, even of the obscure.

01:14:50 mircea_popescu: and the body out of hair

01:15:26 asciilifeform: undata: 'obscure' here is almost by definition - that which is not found on 'pirate bay' and the like

01:15:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how's the russian thing work ? mostly as undata's idea, right ? loosely affiliated, % enforcing warez sites

01:15:56 asciilifeform: aha.

01:16:08 asciilifeform: it also works by having some specificity - as in, 'only books that were actual books once'

01:16:24 asciilifeform: and the language barrier mostly (not always!) keeps enemy at bay

01:16:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll tell you something about obscure. perhaps the best franchise in the history of western pornography is kink.com. best in purely aesthetic terms. now, their various brands, things such as i dunno, publichumiliation exist on the piratebay in the sense of maybe a dozen items out of what, 500 ? 1k total ?

01:16:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: none of the major 'libraries' have '% ratios' though

01:17:13 mircea_popescu: yes, it serves someone wanting to jack off just fine, because nobody needs three hours of video to rub one out

01:17:34 mircea_popescu: suppose i wanted to do something of the substance of actual reason, knowledge, science. da fuck do i do ? pray ?

01:18:09 mircea_popescu: imagine if libraries of the paper variety were organised on the principle that "well if you want something to read we prolly have a coupla books"

01:18:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: another example. want w4r3z copy of 'winblows' ? easy as fart. want the leaked microshit source? (why!?!? but that's another question) - harder.

01:18:16 mircea_popescu: rather than "we have every book ever made"

01:18:18 asciilifeform: though it's out there.

01:18:40 asciilifeform: well if you want something to read we prolly have a coupla books << prison library.

01:18:47 undata: the sites I'm thinking of solve this by making upload credits capital you spend on download, effectively

01:18:55 mircea_popescu: in fact, the way digital stuff is handled, it reminds me of how books would be handled in the house a functionally illiterate peasant from the 1900s.

01:19:04 undata: it seems that kind of incentive structure could be tweaked to reward preserving the obscure

01:19:05 mircea_popescu: "and here is where we keep the books" . "what's in them ? " " letter"

01:19:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's precisely it.

01:19:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of a tale from the pet. she was once given a bag of 'books' by a 'friend' who vaguely recalled that she 'likes reading books.'

01:19:47 asciilifeform: (it was all crud long-overdue for the recycling vats from the moment of printing, naturally)

01:19:52 mircea_popescu: careful what she says, next she gets a bag of fucks.

01:21:05 mircea_popescu: but the problem is not merely storage. retrieval is up there too. consider the simple task "let us watc ha movie". the girls now have to find one. i've distributed more lashes for failure to find good films than for all other reasons combined, in 2014.

01:21:07 asciilifeform: undata: you need 'wot' baked in or you get idiots gaming the ratio system, the way they did on 1990s bbs.

01:21:13 asciilifeform: zip-o-crud generators.

01:21:18 mircea_popescu: while the exercise is instructive, i don't really believe it's the girls' fault exactly.

01:21:20 undata: asciilifeform: certainly

01:21:22 mircea_popescu: how do you find a good film ?

01:21:31 mircea_popescu: as in, "only films that were actually films once"

01:22:14 asciilifeform: this, as often is, - is one of the 'insufficient wot in extant system' cases.

01:22:41 undata: given a BTC transaction which represents an "item" in the catalog, there could as well be transactions which refer to that one and rate it

01:22:43 undata: and so on.

01:22:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is why the "unspecified" website i asked for someone to make a month ago and punkman volunteered is EXACTLY a wot-driven film database.

01:22:54 asciilifeform: (for reading fiction, some folks actually use primitive 'wot' systems like 'goodreads')

01:22:57 mircea_popescu: "see the films that people you trust liked"

01:23:29 asciilifeform: http://bookriot.com/2012/07/31/goodreads-v-librarything-part-one

01:23:29 assbot: Goodreads v. LibraryThing- Part One - BOOK RIOT

01:23:43 asciilifeform: (a review of the very primitive state of the art)

01:23:55 asciilifeform: for film - no idea, if exists

01:24:19 asciilifeform: !s kyristor

01:24:20 assbot: 7 results for 'kyristor' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kyristor

01:24:20 mircea_popescu: ure it exists. "metacritic rating"

01:24:30 mircea_popescu: hear what five hundred internet imbeciles thought about racism in THIS film

01:24:54 asciilifeform: ^ my ancient failed attempt at 'wot.' was to be used with another (never happened) apparatus, 'sollipse,' for running a 'multiverse' of wots.

01:25:31 asciilifeform: (an individual could be a 'node' on any number of orthogonal wots, such as film tastes, mathematics, etc)

01:25:46 mircea_popescu: this is where it's headed.

01:26:00 asciilifeform: in the sense that it is the only solution - yes.

01:26:46 asciilifeform: in fact, 'reddit' gizmos can be seen as a specially broken case of wot - having the same relationship to wot as baited rat poison has to food

01:27:01 mircea_popescu: as per http://fraudsters.com/2014/spamming-reddit-an-experiment/ :)

01:27:02 assbot: Spamming reddit, an “experiment”. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:27:04 asciilifeform: which is, that to the victim's nose it distantly resembles the real thing - but has an ulterior motive baked in.

01:27:22 mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu The idea being that any current ?social media? website is a defective implementation of the WoT, what I intend to do is prove this point. Because the sort of idiots involved won?t figure it on their own, and the assholes a la zuck and conde nast have about as much interest in the matter as your random bank cares about getting off shitty buggy ms software.

01:27:33 asciilifeform: aha.

01:27:45 asciilifeform: except that it goes beyond active disinterest.

01:27:51 mircea_popescu: mebbe.

01:28:00 asciilifeform: they're certainly interested - in something quite else.

01:28:11 mircea_popescu: unsovereignty ?

01:28:25 asciilifeform: vox sheepuli.

01:28:26 mircea_popescu: "god help us if people are in charge of their own lives, anything b ut that" ?

01:28:47 asciilifeform: 'god help us if the thinking folks find one another'

01:28:51 mircea_popescu: right.

01:28:59 mircea_popescu: now see, THAT is a fortress worth making

01:29:04 mircea_popescu: which is why it's here.

01:29:13 asciilifeform: well, the pieces are here.

01:29:31 mircea_popescu: a fortress is first and foremost an embodied fuck you.

01:29:35 asciilifeform: aha.

01:29:44 mircea_popescu: just how well fortified it actually is =- that's a technical discussion'

01:29:59 mircea_popescu: but the unbreached fortress is exactly as fortified as any other unbreached fortress : infinitely so.

01:30:43 mircea_popescu: (and by "it's here" i means specifically, b-a)

01:30:48 asciilifeform: well, yes

01:31:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, i lifted 'kyristor' name not from the obvious place, but from a zoological exploration of a peculiarly malignant femiderp re: 'kyriarchy'

01:32:30 asciilifeform: decided that it would be a particularly apt name for the ideal 'crucifix' against the vampires in question.

01:32:40 asciilifeform: but that's ancient history.

01:33:41 asciilifeform: interestingly, mr mold invented almost precisely the same scheme, afaik independently, neither of us lifted from the other

01:33:56 asciilifeform: imho it is an inevitable discovery, like semiconductor.

01:34:52 asciilifeform: (a rusty nail semiconducts, if you know where on it to stick a probe. this is how 'coherer' - first radio receiver - worked, though its inventor did not know this)

01:35:45 mircea_popescu: nothing as indomitable as an idea whose time has come eh

01:36:11 asciilifeform: ;;google railroading time

01:36:12 gribble: Quote by Robert A. Heinlein: “When railroading time comes you can ...: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/557199-when-railroading-time-comes-you-can-railroad-but-not-before; Q&N: The Door into Summer (Heinlein) - Hjkeen.net: http://www.hjkeen.net/halqn/dor2sumr.htm; Railroad Time - Home Page - TimeZone: (1 more message)

01:36:19 mircea_popescu: "hard to keep people from observing water is wet once their wanderings take them to an ocean"

01:36:26 asciilifeform: ^

01:50:37 asciilifeform: no one will even think to mention 'wot-based' gizmo in the future, just as when you buy a pc now - the crate does not bother to say 'semiconductor-based'

01:50:54 asciilifeform: it's merely obvious.

01:51:46 asciilifeform: it's not even a 'technology' in the sense semiconductor is - but more as arithmetic is.

01:52:04 asciilifeform: namely - if you're operating using some other, incompatible abstraction - the result will be demonstrable nonsense.

02:07:47 decimation: re: spies << Stierlitz is a psychologist

02:08:15 decimation: I was amused the reference to the lady morse operator's "hand"

02:08:44 asciilifeform: morse 'hand' is a thing, ask anyone who still deals with it

02:08:57 undata: asciilifeform: how does it compare to emacs claw?

02:09:07 asciilifeform: not to be confused with 'telegrapher's glass arm' disease

02:09:14 asciilifeform: 'hand' here is in the sense of 'handwriting'

02:09:19 undata: ah

02:09:36 decimation: asciilifeform: when I visited Bletchley park, they told a story about this. Apparently the germans initially sent the 'headers' in enigma traffic in plaintext before the message

02:09:57 decimation: the uk operators at the "Y" stations became familiar with the 'hand' of each german operator

02:10:14 asciilifeform: hand >> incidentally, this was part of the reason why shortly after the war, most intelligence orgs moved to mechanical (punched tape) operation

02:10:36 decimation: later, when the germans started to encrypt the 'headers', they were able to sort out each crypto link by the intercept operator's ability to recognize his opponent's hand

02:10:44 decimation: as nearly all enigma traffic was sent by hand morse

02:10:45 asciilifeform: the ru version was a very simple stapler-shaped gizmo that punched holes in old 35mm film

02:10:53 asciilifeform: it was then fed into the telegraph.

02:11:05 asciilifeform: i have no idea what usa used, probably same.

02:11:25 decimation: actually morse was initially 'machine' sent

02:11:37 asciilifeform: it was mainly to shorten total 'on air' time, to make triangulation harder

02:12:02 decimation: the original idea was to mark a strip of paper with the morse characters, but very soon after the telegraph was introduced it was realized that operators could send by ear much more quickly

02:12:12 asciilifeform: and reduce mistakes (professional 'morse man' and skilled 'illegal' is like asking to hire a pro racing driver who is also an expert cocksucker)

02:12:50 decimation: yeah I also found it interesting in 'stierlitz' that he didn't send his own morse/radio traffic

02:13:09 asciilifeform: after the war, it was almost unheard of to have 2way traffic at all

02:13:18 asciilifeform: most return comms from illegals were via 'dead drop'

02:13:22 asciilifeform: simple, 'cheap and angry'

02:13:32 asciilifeform: grunt under diplomatic cover - fetches it.

02:13:38 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> it's not even a 'technology' in the sense semiconductor is - but more as arithmetic is. << quite agreed,

02:13:48 mircea_popescu: and to think the derps are going o nbout "blockchain technology". as if.

02:14:06 asciilifeform: decimation: 2way traffic is a forced wartime thing. when you have no one in diplomatic cover behind the lines.

02:14:50 decimation: asciilifeform: in Stierlitz, the poor English translation for the word that refers to when a spy is killed 'doing his duty' seems to be 'failed'

02:15:06 asciilifeform: провал?

02:15:10 decimation: "Stierlitz knew he would 'fail' if he did x"

02:15:14 asciilifeform: literally, 'fell through'

02:15:21 asciilifeform: as in, through a hole in the street

02:15:21 decimation: I get the feeling that's the wrong translation at times

02:15:32 asciilifeform: the closest translation would probably be 'blown'

02:15:33 decimation: so it's kind of idiomaitc

02:15:35 asciilifeform: (as in 'cover')

02:15:37 decimation: yeah

02:16:36 asciilifeform: (for folks reading this who have no idea - there was not a film called 'stierlitz', but it is the cover name of the hero in iconic ru multiparter '17 moments of spring.')

02:17:09 mircea_popescu: english has the funcitonal equivalent, "the deal fell through"

02:17:13 BingoBoingo: From the lulzmines: "Batman is a rich white psychopath who beats up poor people for fun. He is not now and never has been a hero."

02:17:16 asciilifeform: aha.

02:17:35 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo also, blackface.

02:17:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-03-2014#582399

02:17:39 assbot: Logged on 26-03-2014 03:30:35; asciilifeform: nitpick with pediwikia - the 'batman' in the epic is not wearing a 'batman' costume. he's a bloke who smashes heads with a baseball bat.

02:18:12 mircea_popescu: "By their nature as vigilantes, acting outside or above the law, most superheroes have a troubling undercurrent of aristocratic, undemocratic, authoritarian values."

02:18:19 mircea_popescu: how dare they be better than the scumcrowd!11

02:18:32 decimation: yeah sorry for the shorthand. You can view the whole series here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIzOma9Pyv8&list=PLA6274B0CEF58CEB0 (or download with youtube-dl)

02:18:33 assbot: 17 Moments of Spring - 1/12 - 1/7 - YouTube

02:18:43 asciilifeform: re: scumcrowd:

02:18:46 asciilifeform: ;;google harrison bergeron

02:18:47 gribble: Harrison Bergeron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron; Harrison Bergeron - Tnellen.com: http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html; Full text of "Harrison Bergeron (& Activity)" - Internet Archive: https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron_djvu.txt

02:18:56 asciilifeform: (if there remains alive even one who has not read it)

02:19:24 mircea_popescu: i have no idea what h b is.

02:19:33 mircea_popescu: oh, vonnegut. kay

02:19:34 asciilifeform: short story by k. vonnegut.

02:19:53 asciilifeform: about a 'glorious future of ikvaliti.'

02:20:17 asciilifeform: [insert w4r3z]

02:20:22 *: mircea_popescu is reading it.

02:22:47 undata: asciilifeform: social media is the shriek of the headphones

02:23:00 undata: what were we talking about?

02:23:02 asciilifeform: undata: except - for now - optional.

02:23:19 mircea_popescu: And she had to apologize at once for her voice, which was a very unfair voice for a woman to use. Her voice was a warm, luminous, timeless melody. "Excuse me-" she said, and she began again, making her voice absolutely uncompetitive.

02:23:21 mircea_popescu: lol.

02:24:09 assbot: RetroUpriser +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

02:24:15 xanthyos: !up RetroUpriser

02:24:43 RetroUpriser: Care to play a game of chess, mircea_popescu?

02:24:48 BingoBoingo: A doomed by the bong case heats up http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/highway-seizure-in-iowa-fuels-debate-about-asset-forfeiture-laws/2014/11/10/10f725fc-5ec3-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html

02:24:49 assbot: Highway seizure in Iowa fuels debate about asset-forfeiture laws - The Washington Post

02:25:02 mircea_popescu: ugh, ive not played chess in like a decade or two

02:25:53 RetroUpriser: Well the offer stands should you change your mind

02:27:10 mircea_popescu: why thank you.

02:27:16 mircea_popescu: heck, why the hell not.

02:27:35 mircea_popescu: what do you want, heads or tails ?

02:27:47 RetroUpriser: You can choose first

02:27:57 decimation: asciilifeform: "fiat 'was down'" << sometimes this happens because a geomagnetic storm knocks down a satellite - for example most gas stations in the us clear credit cards through satellite

02:27:58 RetroUpriser: And i was thinking of using chess.com

02:28:28 mircea_popescu: i dun have a login

02:28:29 asciilifeform: 'Minutes later, Trooper Vanderwiel arrived with the dog, which alerted on the back area of the car. That gave Simmons and Vanderwiel probable cause to search the vehicle without a warrant or the driver?s consent.' << lol re: the obvious implication, the beasts are trained to 'signal' on command rather than search

02:28:43 asciilifeform: !s clever hans

02:28:44 assbot: 0 results for 'clever hans' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=clever+hans

02:28:56 RetroUpriser: How would you like to play?

02:29:07 asciilifeform: http://www.kbrhorse.net/tra/hans.html

02:29:12 xanthyos: http://en.lichess.org/ << no login needed

02:29:12 assbot: lichess.org • Free Online Chess

02:29:27 decimation: yeah my understanding is that the results of the 'search dogs' are always an objective basis upon which one can search

02:29:41 asciilifeform: search dog != confiscation dog

02:29:51 mircea_popescu: bah all these people and their javascript already

02:29:54 asciilifeform: (if the latter are not yet standard - they are being grown.)

02:29:59 decimation: the dog smells money on you

02:30:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dig out that 'ipad'

02:30:17 asciilifeform: chess is more or less what it's for.

02:30:24 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'Minutes later, Trooper Vanderwiel arrived with the dog, which alerted on the back area of the car. That gave Simmons and Vanderwiel probable cause to search the vehicle without a warrant or the driver?s consent.' << lol re: the obvious implication, the beasts are trained to 'signal' on command rather than search << Pretty much an open secret by now

02:30:29 mircea_popescu: i dun have an ipad here ;/

02:30:49 asciilifeform: no civilian computer at all?

02:31:27 mircea_popescu: fuck it ima play ascii art chess.

02:31:29 decimation: http://oglaf.com/heel/

02:31:30 assbot: Heel

02:31:46 xanthyos: you don't need to physically see the same board

02:31:52 xanthyos: just announce moves

02:31:57 RetroUpriser: this is true, we could play through text

02:32:01 BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--O-wxNBJR--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/omamfciqg1uiper3pdrj.jpg << Murican ingenuity

02:32:05 BingoBoingo: !s d6

02:32:06 assbot: 12 results for 'd6' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=d6

02:32:11 mircea_popescu: RetroUpriser ima do algebraic notation in about 5 minutes lemme type out some letters

02:33:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: likely hand-loaded shells with almost no powder

02:33:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or would have ruptured

02:33:53 mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/gqUgekiU <if anyone's curious.

02:33:54 assbot: abcdefgh 1 TCNRXNCT 1 2 PPPPPPPP 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 - Pastebin.com

02:34:11 BingoBoingo: That, but then again non-nagant revolver so there was an exit point for the pressure between the chamber and barrel

02:34:17 mircea_popescu: so now, is X the queen or the king in that arrangement ? or is white caps or no caps ?

02:34:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: normally folks play ascii chess using ordinary coordinates and physical boards

02:35:08 mircea_popescu: RetroUpriser e2e4

02:36:18 mircea_popescu: now where did he go

02:36:24 BingoBoingo: r is the queen, x is the king, white is on top (king's starts on e, queen on d)

02:36:43 mircea_popescu: so i got it right ? go me.

02:37:17 RetroUpriser: hold on finding an online board to use

02:37:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i was always curious why nagant forward-cam did not catch on

02:37:32 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it seems like pure win

02:38:07 thestringpuller: Just play with the text board with pasties

02:38:42 RetroUpriser: d7 ~ d5

02:38:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: probably the cost of making of forward cam vs. retard resistant gas can escape two places design

02:39:24 mircea_popescu: e4e5

02:39:58 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is sidearm srsly a cost-sensitive application?

02:40:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: (aside from pathological cases like 'liberator')

02:40:47 decimation: re: semi quad-copter << I don't get how that's more effective than a semi-truck full of small guided ballistic missiles

02:40:48 RetroUpriser: Ke6

02:40:57 RetroUpriser: c6*

02:41:10 asciilifeform: decimation: range

02:41:19 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is for the manufacterer and the purchasing agency negotiating on the specs. Maybe Police wants to spring for better than liberator, but forward cam... too much

02:41:49 BingoBoingo: RetroUpriser: How does king move two spaces?

02:41:58 xanthyos: heh

02:42:04 mircea_popescu: f2f4

02:42:16 BingoBoingo: Wait, king is x

02:42:43 BingoBoingo: Nevermind

02:42:57 BingoBoingo: non-standard lettering...

02:43:23 Apocalyptic: you guys are using weird notations

02:43:40 RetroUpriser: pe6

02:45:25 mircea_popescu: c3

02:45:34 mircea_popescu: knight c3

02:45:41 asciilifeform: decimation: re: morse tape: http://cryptomuseum.com/burst/index.htm

02:45:42 assbot: Burst Encoders

02:45:59 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is this even anything btw ?

02:46:40 RetroUpriser: Pb6

02:46:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Game seems to be a thing, just the non-standard letters are messing with my ingrained encoding

02:47:16 mircea_popescu: d2d4

02:48:16 RetroUpriser: Bc7

02:48:26 decimation: asciilifeform: seems to me it would be easier just to send a pcm signal like bpsk or something, but I guess this was before that kind of stuff was well known

02:48:31 BingoBoingo: looks like RetroUpriser is playing some sort of French defense and mircea_popescu is just grabbing space

02:48:41 asciilifeform: decimation: mechanical.

02:48:52 decimation: radio teletype was mechanical too

02:49:00 decimation: mostly

02:49:04 asciilifeform: decimation: mechanical and man-portable here.

02:49:35 asciilifeform: decimation: and, potentially, received by another operator equipped with nothing more than consumer radio set.

02:49:38 mircea_popescu: c3b5

02:49:40 asciilifeform: and pencil.

02:49:51 decimation: yeah those are tough specs

02:51:16 RetroUpriser: b7a6

02:53:54 mircea_popescu: b5x3

02:53:59 mircea_popescu: b5c3

02:54:32 RetroUpriser: a6f1

02:55:19 mircea_popescu: wut ?!

02:55:19 BingoBoingo: !up RetroUpriser

02:55:41 RetroUpriser: Thanks

02:56:08 mircea_popescu: aw shgit i had the pawn moved not the bishiop. my bad.

02:56:41 mircea_popescu: h1f1

02:57:05 RetroUpriser: ahem

02:57:10 RetroUpriser: that cant be done

02:57:21 RetroUpriser: you knight is still on g1

02:57:48 mircea_popescu: igh.

02:57:55 mircea_popescu: somehow i was missing a knight o.o

02:58:00 mircea_popescu: dude this is nuts, ascii chess

02:58:21 RetroUpriser: im looking at a board and putting the moves in

02:58:31 asciilifeform: most folks use boards with tele-chess

02:58:39 asciilifeform: except when in jail

02:58:40 mircea_popescu: e1f1

02:59:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah well, if the WEB DIDNT SUCK

02:59:04 mircea_popescu: then perhaps i could.

02:59:15 asciilifeform: actual as in physical board

02:59:18 asciilifeform: on each end

02:59:23 mircea_popescu: im poor and destitute

02:59:28 asciilifeform: l0l

03:01:02 RetroUpriser: d8h4

03:01:31 mircea_popescu: wasn';t x the king /

03:02:01 RetroUpriser: huh?

03:02:01 Apocalyptic: why not using the standard algebraic notation ?

03:02:19 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic because... i don't know it ? so ended up making some shit up on the spot ?

03:02:34 RetroUpriser: heh, i have my kings on e

03:02:51 mircea_popescu: RetroUpriser sorry man, i'll have to take a bow here. my table is too fubar for a 3rd debug attempt

03:02:57 mircea_popescu: you'll have to play with someone who actulaly knows how.

03:02:59 RetroUpriser: no worries

03:03:11 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, easier to learn than to ask your opponent to adapt, especially if he plays quite a lot

03:03:20 RetroUpriser: ill count it as a win in my books

03:03:25 RetroUpriser: so im satisfied

03:03:28 RetroUpriser: adios!

03:03:36 Apocalyptic: it's quite intuitive

03:03:37 asciilifeform: ♜ ♞ ♝ ♛ ♚ ♝ ♞ ♜

03:03:44 asciilifeform: ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟

03:03:47 decimation: lol

03:03:51 asciilifeform: yes.

03:03:54 decimation: ascii with the unicode

03:03:56 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic no argument there, but i just don't happen to give a shit about chess, what can i tell you

03:04:08 Apocalyptic: then no argument there indeed

03:05:42 nubbins`: ♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙

03:05:45 nubbins`: ♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖

03:05:50 nubbins`: i guess i'll go first?

03:07:20 nubbins`: altho given the results of the tourney, maybe i should abstain

03:07:41 thestringpuller: ;;kitten lasers

03:07:42 gribble: Error: "kitten" is not a valid command.

03:07:49 thestringpuller: ;;kittenlasers

03:07:49 gribble: Error: "kittenlasers" is not a valid command.

03:08:17 thestringpuller: ;;laserkittens

03:08:18 gribble: ุ ₍˄.͡˳̫.˄₎ ุ ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew*

03:18:03 asciilifeform: https://www.daniweb.com/software-development/python/code/423640/unicode-chessboard-in-a-terminal

03:18:04 assbot: Unicode chessboard in a terminal | DaniWeb

03:26:45 mike_c: sliding backgrounds!

03:26:46 mike_c: http://www.coinpip.com/

03:26:48 assbot: Bitcoin Payment Gateway | Bitcoin Merchant Services

03:28:24 mircea_popescu: is anyone even keepiung count of all these braindamaged "services" the bezzle keeps pumping out ?

03:28:47 mircea_popescu: i mean, they all depend on being the only one as a business model, by now the only firm guarantee that can be made is that nobody will EVER make a dime in that market

03:29:23 thestringpuller: like bitpay?

03:30:26 mike_c: but this one is purty

03:30:41 mircea_popescu: like all of 'em.

03:31:06 dignork: mike_c: this one is more annoying: https://cryptocapital.co/

03:31:07 assbot: Crypto Capital | Merging the Fiat & Crypto World | Exchanges, Investors, Traders

03:31:28 dignork: it scrolls sideways!

03:31:35 mike_c: it is moving around a lot

03:31:47 mircea_popescu: im waiting for the one that scrolls crazy shitstick on all sides

03:32:29 mircea_popescu: so the paleo fad diet experts among us : what the fuck do you do about sushi ?

03:32:37 mike_c: omg, that one does. it scrolls down then sideways then down

03:32:47 mircea_popescu: don't tell me the thing's intended for kansasites who are barbaric enough to never heard of and so never miss sushi

03:32:57 ben_vulpes: "rice doesn't count!!!1"

03:33:08 mircea_popescu: what about bechamel ?

03:33:12 mircea_popescu: am i to starve in france ?

03:33:44 mircea_popescu: also, wheat is verboten but what about beans ? pretty sure no paleoman ate lentil soup.

03:37:19 ben_vulpes: shit hangs together like camo netting

03:38:24 PeterL: http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/blogroll.py thoughts?

03:38:25 assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts

03:39:47 PeterL: mircea_popescu: paleo says fish is fine, can you make sushi without rice?

03:40:09 PeterL: there are other ways to prepare fish

03:40:13 fluffypony: it's called sashimi

03:40:14 fluffypony: :-P

03:43:06 PeterL: mircea_popescu: paleo says no beans

03:43:25 mircea_popescu: PeterL well it'd be sashimi then

03:43:30 mircea_popescu: which is ok... but i like sushi.

03:43:55 mircea_popescu: eh fluffypony beats m to it!

03:44:02 fluffypony: lol

03:44:02 PeterL: I've had sushi, didn;t like it much, probably not high quality though

03:44:12 fluffypony: yeah you need to try quality sushi

03:44:23 fluffypony: stuff from a takeaway joint on the corner is reserved for sushimergencies

03:44:26 mircea_popescu: there's no point in having meh sushi.

03:44:37 mircea_popescu: and incidentally, that's another thing this town shines in. they got sushi.

03:45:23 mircea_popescu: PeterL anway, i was just illustrating a point. one of my fave meals is, pork wellington. my own invention.

03:45:38 mircea_popescu: you need crust to hold all that liver and mushroom

03:45:40 PeterL: simmilar to beef wellington?

03:45:52 mircea_popescu: exactly the sam, but using a whole pork tenderloin.

03:46:16 PeterL: yes, there are many dishes which just don't happen on paleo

03:46:49 PeterL: I tried it, like the way I felt physically, but was too bored with eating the same things over and over

03:47:04 mircea_popescu: yeah well, i'm not giving up on my culture for the sake of you know... preserving some bizarre prehistorical concerns

03:47:35 PeterL: sure

03:48:02 mircea_popescu: come to think about it... i would think deviled eggs is the pinnacle of paleo culinary achievement huh

03:48:17 mircea_popescu: as a craft i mean. obviously hard to fight a proper steak

03:48:43 PeterL: my wife managed to make some interesting dishes trying to keep things interesting

03:49:17 mircea_popescu: did you do the actual no beans no milk no nothing version ?

03:49:24 PeterL: yup

03:49:29 mircea_popescu: or more like "whatever, we just won't eat too many sugar frosted dumplings" version

03:49:35 PeterL: lasted a couple months

03:50:02 *: mircea_popescu is a firm champion of "eat whatever thoust will until you burst" diet, going on 40 years now

03:50:07 decimation: wait how is milk not paleo?

03:50:12 mircea_popescu: im not even that fat.

03:50:13 PeterL: then she decided she couldn't stand to see another sweet potato and we started adding lots of stuff back in

03:50:29 mircea_popescu: decimation well it's not manly enough, sucking on titties.

03:50:38 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, do paleo guys also fuck paleo ?

03:50:43 decimation: lol

03:50:46 mircea_popescu: hair pulling and surprise insertions all the way ?

03:50:49 PeterL: milk digestion as an adult was one of the most recent enzymes added to the human genome

03:51:06 PeterL: some populations get it more than others

03:51:08 mircea_popescu: PeterL how does that make sense ? if you have it as a kid then it's there

03:51:24 PeterL: most animals don't eat milk as adult

03:51:31 mircea_popescu: but the enzyme, it gotta be there.

03:51:39 PeterL: yeah, but the body stops making it

03:51:45 mircea_popescu: the genome doesn't change over the lifetime of the individual

03:52:32 ben_vulpes: upregulation and downregulation is a thing

03:52:38 mircea_popescu: sure.

03:52:50 ben_vulpes: stop drinking milk long enough and it will hurt the next time

03:52:52 decimation: http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/centum-and-satem-2/ << "It all started pretty far to the East. There, some crazy locals first tamed the horse. I’m thinking that they were something like the Botai culture, riding and hunting horses, but not farmers. They may well have milked those horses – by the way, horse milk is much richer in lactose than human or cow milk."

03:52:54 assbot: Centum and Satem | West Hunter

03:53:11 *: asciilifeform actually knows a fellow who lost lactose digestion as adult

03:53:13 mircea_popescu: you ever had mare milk ?

03:53:13 asciilifeform: go figure.

03:53:32 asciilifeform: iirc not digestible by man unless fermented

03:53:39 mircea_popescu: i am pretty convinced the way milk became a part of the diet is because of animal husbandry.

03:53:49 mircea_popescu: mares literally love being suckled, and will love you if you suckle them

03:53:51 asciilifeform: кумыс.

03:54:03 mircea_popescu: this given, how long would it have taken some bored kids in central asia ?

03:54:15 joecool: <ben_vulpes> upregulation and downregulation is a thing < it's funny how many people forget this

03:54:30 thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2lzmji/i_am_a_student_at_mit_who_recently_received_100/

03:54:49 mircea_popescu: joecool i was just keeping his hands to the coals on the technicality of it. "retaining milk digestion past childood is a recent adaptation" etc.

03:55:57 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so basically, "mit sucks" ?

03:56:06 mircea_popescu: maybe they should start small, give the bright kids there lightbulbs

03:56:11 asciilifeform: !s mit battery

03:56:12 assbot: 11 results for 'mit battery' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mit+battery

03:56:16 asciilifeform: ^ obligatory

03:57:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik, the fermentation makes it accessible to wussies

03:58:11 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/JXEDCf3

03:58:12 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

03:58:27 PeterL: by the way, I added code to scoopbot, now if he disconnects he should reconnect, hopefully this will keep him running

03:58:40 mircea_popescu: splendid.

03:58:47 nubbins`: anyone know if you can carry money in a regular wheelbarrow or do they make ones w/ nets to keep the cash from blowing away?

03:58:59 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03RPEVV.txt )

03:58:59 asciilifeform: !b 1

03:59:12 mircea_popescu: i am still frozen from having read that.

03:59:24 PeterL: nubbins`: use a paperweight?

03:59:50 nubbins`: currently using a couple of cookie sheets, but they slide around

03:59:59 asciilifeform: easy answer to riddle: money is typically heavy and does not blow away.

04:00:02 asciilifeform: benjies - might

04:00:02 nubbins`: asciilifeform actually knows a fellow who lost lactose digestion as adult <<< this happened to my wife

04:00:16 joecool: happened to my ex

04:00:19 joecool: must be a canadian problem

04:00:49 nubbins`: lactose-free dairy stuff is more common these days

04:01:03 nubbins`: you can get president's choice lactose-free cheddar AND marble now :0

04:01:04 asciilifeform: given that gene expression is a thing, this is actually a very easy way to give yourself food allergies

04:01:14 asciilifeform: simply abstain from something for a spell

04:01:24 joecool: nubbins`: it is, can buy regular milk without lactose and even ice cream

04:01:28 asciilifeform: (works for a number of things)

04:01:30 nubbins`: yup

04:01:32 joecool: or eat lots of lactase

04:01:45 nubbins`: the lactase pills even stopped working

04:02:11 nubbins`: i mean, old cheddar doesn't have much lactose to begin with.

04:02:33 joecool: i told her this too, she never had an issue with aged cheeses

04:03:13 dignork: nubbins`: they just make them from money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWhI4gi9nNk

04:03:14 assbot: Extreme wheelbarrowing - YouTube

04:03:15 assbot: you know they put lactose in lactase pills

04:04:25 nubbins`: you got it all wrong buddy

04:04:39 nubbins`: stick to what ya know

04:17:31 PeterL: assbot: you know they put lactose in lactase pills <<< wth assbot?

04:18:07 assbot: what, its true

04:18:09 BingoBoingo: assbot is the bot with the hero butt

04:18:43 PeterL: is somebody playing with assbot?

04:19:47 BingoBoingo: I doubt it. Prolly a new feature.

04:26:29 ben_vulpes: things about ios 8 that drive me insane

04:26:38 ben_vulpes: app store search results are sorted above my installed apps

04:28:04 assbot: PeterL, have you seen the movie 'being john malkovich'?

04:35:18 cazalla: woot, cherries in season

04:40:09 ben_vulpes: on an entirely different topic, i'd like to derp in public about bisection in hunt of the commits that unwedged 0.5.3

04:41:11 ben_vulpes: my plan at the moment is to wait for my 0.5.3 binary to wedge itself, and then write a script that hooks into the git 'bisect' tool.

04:42:54 ben_vulpes: this script will take the wedged blockchain on disk; copy it into the testing dir; compile bitcoind from a different point in the source tree; and boot it pointed at the wedged blockchain; and check to see if the output of 'bitcoind getblockcount' has gone up

04:43:17 ben_vulpes: if yes, mark as good with git bisect and proceed with binary search, repeating the above process until the unwedging commit is discovered.

04:43:38 decimation: ben_vulpes: won't you need much disk space per 'try'?

04:43:58 ben_vulpes: 2x the size of the wedged blockchain

04:44:05 ben_vulpes: one for copying into the dir, one for launching from.

04:44:26 ben_vulpes: if i'm not being clear, i plan to clobber the data dir on each run.

04:47:32 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: doubtful plan

04:47:48 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: illuminate me

04:47:48 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wedging almost certainly involves what ends up being saved as blockchain

04:47:53 asciilifeform: rather than how it is decoded

04:48:08 ben_vulpes: ah ha

04:48:27 ben_vulpes: well then shit i should copy this datadir while its yet unwedged

04:48:53 asciilifeform: but - assuming you've the time/energy - there is no reason not to try it

04:49:09 asciilifeform: (specifically - to see what, if anything, a >0.5.3 client will do with a wedged 0.5.3 chain)

04:51:16 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: were i to use a chain slightly downstream of the wedging to start the process, would that be less unlikely to work?

04:51:43 asciilifeform: how could i know.

04:51:50 asciilifeform: try.

04:52:03 decimation: ben_vulpes: what if the 'wedging' were caused by some dependency (memory leak, etc)?

04:52:16 asciilifeform: the catastrophic memory leak is also a fact.

04:52:28 asciilifeform: not directly a cause of the wedge though

04:52:44 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> how could i know.

04:52:48 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> not directly a cause of the wedge though

04:53:01 ben_vulpes: there is much contrast in the implications of these statements.

04:53:09 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: well, i was able to determine that wedging takes place prior to memory exhaustion

04:53:25 asciilifeform: no data on whether common bug behind both, however.

04:53:56 asciilifeform: here's another tidbit from 'valgrind' runs - leak is very slow prior to wedge, then appears to speed up

04:54:17 decimation: I guess my point is that if something external to the turd participates in the 'wedging' then the bisect plan won't really work

04:54:25 decimation: or at least, will have misleading results

04:57:53 ben_vulpes: what would be considered "external"?

04:58:09 decimation: bdb for instance

04:58:19 asciilifeform: 'boost'

04:58:31 decimation: if something is stomping on something in those libraries it could be quite subtle

04:58:50 ben_vulpes: would the libraries not be held constant between bisections?

04:59:15 ben_vulpes: provided i'm not doing something retarded like also updating packages

04:59:46 decimation: sure, but it is at least possible that is stomping on the code in such a way that it doesn't work in one version, but then works in another

05:00:05 decimation: not because the issue has been solved but merely because of a new arrangement in memory

05:00:16 asciilifeform: external << worth pointing out that i did not build with 'period' libs.

05:01:13 decimation: nevertheless, there is at least some chance that your experiment will reveal something interesting

05:05:48 BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/11/potentially-catastrophic-bug-bites-all-versions-of-windows-patch-now/ << WinBleed

05:05:48 assbot: Potentially catastrophic bug bites all versions of Windows. Patch now | Ars Technica

05:06:08 asciilifeform: s/patch/exploit

05:07:01 BingoBoingo: Refresh, someone found the old door, time for a new door

05:11:37 asciilifeform: someone << ru

05:18:55 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> if yes, mark as good with git bisect <<< interesting approach.

05:19:48 mircea_popescu: <decimation> ben_vulpes: what if the 'wedging' were caused by some dependency (memory leak, etc)? << this is undoubtedly the case for at least some wedgings

05:20:24 mircea_popescu: but anyway, the plan is promising because it engenders familiarity with the damned thing.

05:20:42 *: asciilifeform far more familiar than wanted to be

05:21:46 mircea_popescu: "A failure to properly filter specially formed packets makes it possible for attackers to execute attack code of their choosing by sending malicious traffic to a Windows-based server." << sounds like windows had a replica of heartbleed.

05:22:24 asciilifeform: arbitrary remote code exec

05:22:28 mircea_popescu: either they stole openssh code (unlikely) or the thing was actually usg-mandated (which in some interpretations is one step above what we already knew, ie sponsored)

05:22:29 asciilifeform: not necessarily 'replica' of anything

05:22:54 ben_vulpes: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-November/000008.html

05:22:55 asciilifeform: microshit is the ultimate execution of 'plausibly deniable' usg mandate.

05:23:16 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: neato.

05:23:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to my eyes it reads like, "this is what they wanted", "openssh is the best implementation of it they managed to get before the whole thing got shot in the head"

05:23:28 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: congratulate the author

05:23:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you may find that my patches rely on one another

05:24:04 asciilifeform: ('patch' util is dumb as a rock)

05:24:20 mircea_popescu: "Microsoft's advisory said there are no mitigating factors and no workarounds for the bug."

05:24:20 asciilifeform: (re: 'compile with posted patches individually' idea)

05:24:27 mircea_popescu: the exact definition of "notabug"

05:25:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they almost always print 'no mitigating factors' (as in, must install update or die)

05:25:22 mircea_popescu: good for 'em.

05:25:54 asciilifeform: incidentally, some folks may wonder why microshit even bothers to announce pwnholes

05:26:09 asciilifeform: answer is, in many cases, they don't (often people reverse engineer them from recent patches)

05:26:23 asciilifeform: and when they do, part of the reason is to goad lusers to force-update

05:26:36 asciilifeform: so they can develop new orifices.

05:26:58 decimation: 'the (upgrade) bell tolls for thee'

05:51:13 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/chris-popple-of-rbs-in-regards-to-bitcoin-were-definitely-interested-in-it/

05:57:11 mircea_popescu: lol bankers saying things

06:04:32 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

06:04:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 381.0, vol: 11750.93845470 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 379.454, vol: 9041.59829 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.32, vol: 21072.94259007 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 379.7664, vol: 126158.41850000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.99, vol: 3.08140637 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 373.1221, vol: 76.77593578 | Volume-weighted last average: 380.152910076

06:04:42 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

06:04:44 gribble: Current Blocks: 329647 | Current Difficulty: 3.960366625241841E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 330623 | Next Difficulty In: 976 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 58 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 40021602789.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.0553

06:04:48 BingoBoingo: ;;nethash

06:04:49 gribble: 277659570.962

06:25:19 ben_vulpes: is there any interest in sharing a pre-wedge blockchain built by 0.5.3 around?

06:26:19 ben_vulpes: interest, value...

07:35:41 cazalla: mircea_popescu: yes, it serves someone wanting to jack off just fine, because nobody needs three hours of video to rub one out <<< tell that to the people that take 3 hours to find the ideal clip for that session

07:42:44 jurov: lol cazalla

08:47:54 jurov: <mircea_popescu> [20141112 05:22] either they stole openssh code (unlikely) << not openssh but openssL. as it is under BSD, they're free to do whatever wit it.

08:49:24 jurov: ben_vulpes asciilifeform, others: when are you going to send your patches in expected format?

08:49:41 jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html should spring into life when they are received

11:45:11 BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0065.mediawiki

11:45:12 assbot: bips/bip-0065.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub

11:51:50 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/internet-service-providers-stripping-starttls-flag/

11:51:50 assbot: Internet Service Providers Stripping STARTTLS Flag | Qntra.net

11:58:45 cazalla: gee, you're up early/late BingoBoingo

11:59:05 BingoBoingo: Learly.

12:10:36 cazalla: scoopbot once again will not get the scoop

12:10:39 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/peter-vessenes-half-a-billion-dollars-to-be-spent-on-asics-over-18-months/

12:10:39 assbot: Peter Vessenes: Half A Billion Dollars To Be Spent On ASICs Over 18 Months | Qntra.net

12:11:14 jurov: "defunct Bitcoin Foundation" hah

12:12:29 jurov: cazalla i had to rerad it several times

12:12:33 jurov: reread

12:12:55 cazalla: i've had a few drinks but what is wrong with it

12:12:56 jurov: first i was wtf, vessesnes is speaking in the nme of samsung?

12:13:21 cazalla: well why not? he speaks in the name of bitcoin

12:13:42 jurov: then wtf, no, ne is representing $1B investors?

12:14:02 jurov: and then "oh he's just yapping alone"

12:14:04 cazalla: it's what he said

12:14:24 jurov: what she said.

12:14:26 cazalla: "Much of the money will go directly to foundries with the highest technology in the world, including Samsung, Intel and TSMC"

12:16:05 cazalla: maybe i need another beer for clarity

12:16:10 cazalla: i'm sure it will make sense then

12:16:50 jurov: whatever

12:17:33 jurov: i read the source, too and this chuckleworthy info was snuck in the end:

12:17:43 jurov: The Bitcoin Foundation is in discussions with Korean firms and financial authorities about setting up a Bitcoin foundation in Korea.

12:19:21 cazalla: jurov, do you think the qntra article is bad?

12:21:16 jurov: it's just copied from source

12:21:41 cazalla: well, not much else one can add with something like that, his talk isn't online so difficult to know what else he said

12:21:43 jurov: the source continues "Samsung is one of a few chipmakers capable of producing 10-nonometer(sic!)-class chips."

12:21:52 jurov: which clarifies things

12:22:07 jurov: why he singled out samsung

12:23:12 jurov: i don't think it's bad, just..idk, maybe someone else can pinpoint it better

12:23:32 cazalla: i'll re-read tmw when sober

12:25:27 jurov: dunno what is with all the drinking in this chan

12:25:59 jurov: at home i'm okay with just a glass of beer or wine

12:26:12 jurov: and when not at home, i dont publish stuff :)

12:27:05 cazalla: well i suffer from this problem that i have 1, which is good, so 2 must be great, 3 is awesome and that's that

12:27:23 cazalla: it's my pain medicine as well

12:27:56 cazalla: medicinal alcohol

12:28:21 jurov: lol "medicinal alcohol" is 90% stuff :DDD

12:28:34 jurov: but yea i see what you mean

12:29:01 BingoBoingo: It's better than getting arrested in Silk Road scam

12:31:29 BingoBoingo: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nixon-tries-to-reassure-public-as-people-prepare-for-the/article_0208b781-ee94-5a1e-8c62-af5e894acf6a.html

12:31:30 assbot: Nixon tries to reassure public, as people prepare for the worst : News

12:34:04 cazalla: BingoBoingo, think it'll be bad? they only smashed a few things after zimmerman was found not guilty

12:34:46 BingoBoingo: Zimmerman was also a Hispanic Jew so also kind of on the minority spectrum, also not a police officer.

12:46:31 BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/29/professors-robots-protest-u-iowas-pink-locker-room

12:46:33 assbot: Professors, robots protest U. of Iowa's pink locker room @insidehighered

13:30:56 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850128.0 << Forum Drama

13:30:57 assbot: Apologies to anyone who read my posts last night!

14:03:54 BingoBoingo: Oh, systemd documented ruining people's days in the wild http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592

14:03:54 assbot: oss-sec: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning

14:44:34 chetty: hahahaha I just saw what has to be the funniest traffic snarl ever. The train barrier on one side is stuck and cars/busses/trucks backed up as far as the eye can see. But its a one way street and the other side is wide open, nothing stoppping people just drive to the left ...

14:44:57 BingoBoingo: Nice

14:46:27 chetty: people really are sheeps

14:59:39 TomServo: ;;isitdown qntra.net

14:59:41 gribble: qntra.net is up

15:00:44 mike_c: down for me

15:01:36 TomServo: same here

15:03:16 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: interest, value... << the problem with using op's blockchain is that you're basically trusting the op

15:03:29 mircea_popescu: not so unlike sharing privkeys from a purely bitcoin perspective

15:04:35 mircea_popescu: cazalla: mircea_popescu: nobody needs three hours of video to rub one out <<< tell that to the people that take 3 hours to find the ideal clip for that session << well yeah, i kinda fucked up there didn't i.

15:04:59 mircea_popescu: the idea isn't that jacking off is less of an intellectual activity than learning chemistry or reading nabokov, so we pile on it.

15:05:19 mircea_popescu: the idea was that the young and stupid are readily satisfied by the current model, on account of their vast ignorance. but nobody else is.

15:09:28 mircea_popescu: jurov: not openssh but openssL. as it is under BSD, they're free to do whatever wit it. << yeah openssl. not a question of under bsd or not, idea was more like : the proof that USG.HB was a thing, that was then implemented as openssl.HB is the fact that looky, a Win.HB apparently exists(ed). like, if you find a goat on a field you may think you've both discovered and invented the goat. but if you then later find anothe

15:09:29 mircea_popescu: r goat, you may now believe you discovered 'em, but they are being produced somewhere else and were invented by someone else.

15:10:04 mircea_popescu: this distinction is exactly the distinction between a bug with security implications and a deliberate security hole : they are both security holes. the finder of the bug both discovers and invents that security hole.

15:10:14 mircea_popescu: the finder of the deliberate thing however merely discovers it. someone else invented it.

15:54:23 nubbins`: <+chetty> people really are sheeps <<< occasionally when i'm in an elevator alone and it stops to let more people on, i face the back of the car to see if others will follow suit

15:54:29 nubbins`: works about 20% of the time

15:55:40 asciilifeform: my favourite 'sheep experiment' is at a place not far from where i live, where one can rent 'sea bicycles' - little boats that one can pedal around. usually folks cluster together, for no good reason. pedal to an empty part of the water, and dozens follow...

15:56:10 mircea_popescu: lol

15:56:19 mircea_popescu: i hear that's how serial killers get started

15:56:38 asciilifeform: it had no practical consequence, but blew my mind when i discovered it many years ago.

15:56:42 mircea_popescu: !up saifedean

15:57:00 mircea_popescu: no scoopbot, no peterl... wha happened here!

15:57:09 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl seems teh code didn't werk.

15:57:09 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:58:27 saifedean: "so the paleo fad diet experts among us" Fad? Humans have been eating paleo from before they were humans. Grains, seeds, and sugars are the passing fad, it's only been 10,000 years or so, and it won't be much longer...

15:59:28 mircea_popescu: now listen here. the fact that the turks have worn salvari for x centuries does not mean a suburban kid showing up for some school function in silken longpants isn't following a fad.

15:59:37 mircea_popescu: you are not a prehistoric man. you will never be one.

16:00:28 saifedean: But you will become healthier, stronger, smarter and happier eating like one, rather than grinding your brain to find excuses for why you shouldn't!

16:00:34 *: asciilifeform can't wait to see folks follow the 'logical' paleo conclusion, and climb back into the trees

16:01:00 mike_c: which part of the paleo religion demands proselytization?

16:01:14 saifedean: "what the fuck do you do about sushi ?" You Sashimi. Really, sushi is just poor people sashimi, to get bloated with cheap grain. Sashimi is the real deal.

16:01:22 asciilifeform: mike_c: the part when you're high out of your mind on placebocin

16:01:51 mike_c: placebocin is the best drugz

16:02:15 mircea_popescu: saifedean you'll generally find poor people foods are better than "rich people" foods.

16:02:24 mircea_popescu: pork an' beans ftw.

16:02:32 saifedean: also, beans, lentils, and grains are frowned upon in the Paleo Cult. Our lord and saviour Art De Vany would smite you.

16:02:38 mike_c: pork & rice & beans even better

16:02:47 mircea_popescu: srsly, that's your idea, instead of a nice pot of beans cooked with a smoked leg over a day and a night

16:02:51 mircea_popescu: you want to just eat the leg ?

16:03:07 mircea_popescu: mike_c i dun care for rice in that one, but hey, matter of ethnocentric taste.

16:03:16 mircea_popescu: ;;ud art de vany

16:03:17 gribble: http://ro.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Vany%20Vicious | Tattoo Artist and Model from Miami,FL. ... Vany Vicious is a hardcore bitch. ... de TatooLoverYEah 10 Ianuarie 2012 adaugă un clip video adaugă o imagine.

16:03:17 asciilifeform: dietary cargo cults are mega-lulz.

16:03:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's the most humorous use of "cargo cult" i ever saw,

16:04:06 mircea_popescu: and way the fuck beyond what i imagined posible.

16:04:47 punkman: check out the leaderboard http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/trusted

16:04:48 assbot: Trusted keys | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

16:04:56 mircea_popescu: technically, yes, immitating the trapings of paleopeople to get chimp muscular arrangements ? that's an evolutionary choice already made for us, 500k years ago or so.

16:05:21 mircea_popescu: punkman how's teh rating work ?

16:05:29 punkman: l1+l2 of assbot

16:05:40 mircea_popescu: lol mk.

16:05:42 *: asciilifeform wonders how often taleb-like figures wander into 'paleo' cult strange, after they really felt stronger - but not from eating raw antelope, but from the real win of being set free from workschwitz - that being, sleeping ad libitum.

16:06:00 mircea_popescu: scalar sums of graphs still broken.

16:06:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, i just did that ?

16:06:23 mircea_popescu: it feels fine.

16:08:22 nubbins`: fad diets are a pretty good lel

16:08:59 mircea_popescu: as far as that goes, there's way worse ones than "stop eating all that refined sugar and chill it with the starch too"

16:09:12 nubbins`: p just started keeping track of calories in/out and balancing carbs/protein/fat

16:09:50 nubbins`: it's been less than a year, she can deadlift her own body weight and has dropped ~30lbs :0

16:10:16 nubbins`: i keep saying i won't be impressed til she can deadlift me, but secretly... ;p

16:11:02 mircea_popescu: who the fuck can't lift their own body weight

16:11:10 mircea_popescu: isn't that esentially what a chinup is ?

16:12:02 *: nubbins` thinks

16:12:14 nubbins`: there's like 6 different types of chinups, all work different muscle sets

16:12:24 mircea_popescu: but the point still remains, you are lifting your own weight

16:12:41 nubbins`: you're pulling the ceiling down, vs lifting something heavy up

16:13:11 mircea_popescu: i guess, but you're left picking for straws here.

16:13:27 mircea_popescu: !up saifedean

16:13:37 nubbins`: i'd wager maybe three people in here can do a single chin-up

16:13:38 mircea_popescu: i thought you got all buthurt and pankake'd out on us, mr paleo man.

16:13:50 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i can do ten.

16:14:01 saifedean: heh... my butt is hurtproof, my internet connection, though

16:14:02 nubbins`: well i guess you can loan out a few to the rest of us

16:14:08 nubbins`: :P

16:14:19 nubbins`: anyway, try deadlifting your own weight on a barbell some time

16:14:20 saifedean: I was saying... pork is the shittiest of meats, as pigs eat shit. Beans are crap. fish is the food of kings... as for land food, lamb is the best, followed by beef, goat, chicken, everything else, then pork.

16:14:24 nubbins`: and LMK how it goes.

16:14:40 nubbins`: saifedean pork is delicious and cheap

16:14:46 nubbins`: beef is the bottom of my list

16:14:52 mircea_popescu: incidentally, is saifedean like the first noob ever that gets away with the sort of nutty forced ideas veterans usually display here ?

16:15:05 nubbins`: i think vex earned that crown

16:15:12 saifedean: though a swedish friend tells me reindeer meat is the best of all

16:15:30 nubbins`: i'd love to try reindeer

16:15:33 mircea_popescu: human is the best of all!

16:15:46 nubbins`: i'd try grass-fed human

16:15:56 nubbins`: avg sack of shit would prolly poison you

16:16:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i wouldn't do that because i dun have the techniques and am tall. prolly spring my back / give myself a hernia.

16:16:17 nubbins`: well i guess it's not the same thing at all then, is it :D

16:16:22 *: ben_vulpes gasps

16:16:23 mircea_popescu: but technique is not what i thought we were discussing here.

16:16:23 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'd never suggest sharing a blockchain for use anger!

16:16:29 ben_vulpes: *in

16:16:56 nubbins`: if we're trying to equate chinups with deadlifts, technique is precisely what we're discussing

16:17:10 mircea_popescu: i thought you were all in awe of the woman's sheer muscular power

16:17:26 mircea_popescu: i didn't realise you were implying that by counting calories she has gained the magical wisdowm of lifting shit

16:17:58 saifedean: The Art de Vany I mentioned is not the one that Urban dictionary turned up, it is this man: http://www.artdevanyonline.com/

16:17:59 assbot: Art De Vany on Line - Results

16:18:09 mircea_popescu: can it be art vandalay ?

16:18:12 saifedean: 77 years old and could kick the collective ass of everyone on this forum

16:18:22 mircea_popescu: uh.

16:18:27 nubbins`: (a) in awe, yep (b) not even close

16:18:39 nubbins`: by lifting shit she gained the magical wisdom

16:18:58 nubbins`: by eating like a normal person and not "paleo" (wtf!) she lost weight

16:19:02 mircea_popescu: saifedean if i add mah assassin cult to nubbins`'s here powerlifter chick, art vandalay guy is in a world of trouble.

16:19:11 nubbins`: but since we all know exercise and diet are linked, things sorta got jumbled together

16:19:38 ben_vulpes: i weary of this paleo proselytism

16:19:49 mircea_popescu: that's because you're not eating right

16:19:54 mircea_popescu: them wheats talking outta ya.

16:19:54 nubbins`: yeah dude

16:20:07 nubbins`: if god wanted you to eat cooked meat, he woulda installed a furnace in your throat

16:20:24 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/14KC96M.txt )

16:20:24 mircea_popescu: !b 1

16:20:29 nubbins`: er wait did paleo man have fire?

16:20:37 mircea_popescu: sources disagree.

16:20:38 ben_vulpes: reminds me of someone else who spoke endlessly on the topic of wifi

16:20:43 nubbins`: did he have beef, pork, and chicken?

16:20:45 saifedean: hmmm.. de vany is a friend of taleb, we should invite the two of them here and have them chill with your assassin cult

16:20:51 mircea_popescu: nubbins` mostly squirrel.

16:20:54 nubbins`: ah

16:20:54 ben_vulpes: new meaning to "spamgun"

16:21:19 nubbins`: so really, a paleo diet is raw squirrel meat, berries, occasional leaves for roughage

16:21:29 nubbins`: sounds totally healthy and easy for modern man to adapt to

16:21:39 nubbins`: i can see why it's popular

16:21:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, re pork eats shit etc : the evidence is quite clear that humans and hyenas were mostly commensal.

16:21:50 mircea_popescu: humans ate principally carcass.

16:22:15 mircea_popescu: they also lived in the same caves, alternating each other, depending on which group had stronger pups that decade.

16:22:53 nubbins`: paleo timeshares

16:23:10 saifedean: nubbins, you have no idea how many times i have heard these non-sequiturs of arguments. briefly, no, you do NOT need to emulate a caveman's life to down to its little details. The idea is to eliminate from your diet as much as possibel all the things that are relatively recent additions to our diet, to which our bodies have not adjusted very well, and which are proven to cause most of our modern illnesses. it fucking works

16:23:20 nubbins`: "cmon broud, my kid has diarrhea from eating beef, let us take the cave tonight"

16:23:56 mircea_popescu: nubbins` nah, more like, mary jane and anne were good sluts this year, had 7 kids, 5 years later the hyenas are fucked 3 to 1.

16:24:03 nubbins`: saifedean see the thing is, you're treating "our bodies" as a homogenous group, when nothing could be further form the truth

16:24:06 nubbins`: *from

16:24:29 mircea_popescu: saifedean but you understand why when one proposes action on the basis of a theory, critical examination involves reviewing what would happen if that theory were applied by someone else than the proponent.

16:24:32 nubbins`: "our" bodies adjust to shit all the time

16:24:36 nubbins`: case in point: lactose

16:24:40 mircea_popescu: otherwise you ACTUALLY get a cult. "thios is the law and only i may know what it says"

16:25:10 nubbins`: you know there was a time when cheese would make any human who consumed it ill?

16:25:20 saifedean: nubbins no, i'm not. you're the one who is setting up charicatures of arguments for you to tear them down. i don't give two shits what you eat, you don't have to convince me. You should be trying to challenge yourself to understand what I'm saying it, or ignoring it. That you dismiss it like that is silly

16:25:24 nubbins`: and thye kept doing it and now i can eat pizza with impunity?

16:26:08 nubbins`: saifedean i literally do not have enough spare eyes to roll the appropriate amount in your direction

16:26:11 mircea_popescu: saifedean most of the negative reaction comes from the very marketing heavy approach. "you should challenge yourself" ? dude, this is the lordship here. you think anyone gives a shit about such puny attempts ?

16:26:39 *: nubbins` challenges himself to eliminate sourdough from diet

16:26:44 nubbins`: wait, that's retarded. no i don't.

16:26:57 mircea_popescu: but it'd be a challenge! and you're like, a 15 yo male.

16:27:01 nubbins`: haha

16:27:05 nubbins`: once upon a time

16:27:14 saifedean: mp, yes, sure, hence, asking questions about things makes sense. dismissing them with half-baked arguments is time-wasting.

16:27:19 mircea_popescu: see, THAT's why you're fat nubbins.

16:27:33 nubbins`: i think i'm fat because i lead a sedentary lifestyle

16:27:57 nubbins`: but hey, tall skinny guys get pushed around

16:27:59 mircea_popescu: saifedean what's being dismissed anyway ? far as i can see, the part where "eat less sugar and starch, it'll be good for you" is univerally accepted. the rest, nobody has any use for.

16:28:07 nubbins`: ^

16:28:11 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no they don't.

16:29:04 saifedean: that's a good start, but you need to also eat lots of animal fat, which is absolutely very good for you.. and you need to view doing carbs like an addiction, not a healthy food.

16:29:30 ben_vulpes: o.O

16:29:38 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSjiDDtlIE

16:29:39 assbot: Trailer Park Boys - Smokes, Let's Go - YouTube

16:30:00 mircea_popescu: i bought i dunno, 100 or so pairs of underwear about a decade ago. got the same things i always got ever since i was a kid. eventually they run out and holy shit has the underwear business gone nuts in the meanwhile. what the fuck are all these things even!

16:30:16 *: nubbins` gazes at meat grinder, fridge full of shoulder, lack of potatoes in cupboard

16:30:52 nubbins`: tell me more about how to be healthy

16:30:54 saifedean: finally, "speaking of which, do paleo guys also fuck paleo ?" < Absolutely, once you've tried a carbs-free girl, you'll never go back!

16:31:06 nubbins`: carbs-free :0

16:31:18 mircea_popescu: lmao

16:31:27 mircea_popescu: that is quite not what i meant.

16:31:43 mircea_popescu: your analogy is broken, you don't eat 150k year old meat, so you don't eat paleo in THAT sense.

16:31:51 ben_vulpes: dafuq is trailer park boys

16:31:53 mircea_popescu: what i meant is, do you fuck like a paleo guy, if you try to eat like one.

16:32:03 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sounds like a band of twinks.

16:32:05 saifedean: you should never fuck vegetarians. your should eat vegetarians.

16:32:12 nubbins`: mircea_popescu acetone-breath from ketogenic diet? i'd say he does.

16:32:24 nubbins`: ben_vulpes canadian television, it's uh, a thing

16:32:31 mircea_popescu: lol knock em out, fuck 'em raw

16:33:05 mircea_popescu: for maximum trollage points, that pua "executive executant" derp should rebrand his nonsense as paleo dating

16:33:35 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQc-ldoX3yI

16:33:36 assbot: My 10 Favorite Trailer Park Boys Moments - YouTube

16:33:42 mircea_popescu: now THAT'd be true scandal. hollyday derp has nfi how to "strategize", you don't attack large submissive groups like women. you attack small but desperate groups.

16:34:20 mircea_popescu: jurov: ben_vulpes asciilifeform, others: when are you going to send your patches in expected format? <<< for shame, you lot.

16:34:22 saifedean: well, my personal experience is that it does make a big difference to one's sex life... it raises testosterone levels beyond what is considered 'normal' levels today

16:34:30 mircea_popescu: what sort of a standardisation group is this!

16:34:43 mircea_popescu: saifedean so you get to work harder for the same cunt ?

16:35:27 saifedean: no, you get to do more for your cock

16:36:07 mircea_popescu: so at what point in the paleo diet do you start keeping two chicks around the house ?

16:36:34 saifedean: that's a prerequisite for going paleo

16:37:10 ben_vulpes: blue dollar's been dropping?

16:37:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes oh it was a riot, the government raped the (apparently very flimsy) black market ops.

16:37:46 mircea_popescu: it cut the printing short for like a week, and then launched some gossip that "it paid the debt"

16:38:00 mircea_popescu: dollar took a nosedive to like 11s, almost what it was in spring.

16:38:03 mircea_popescu: back to 13 now tho.

16:38:50 ben_vulpes: more momentum traders in the pese than btc huh

16:39:10 mircea_popescu: well, i think they just try to work on very short reserves

16:39:14 mircea_popescu: and even shorter experience.

16:39:33 mircea_popescu: most of the people i saw involved are either kids or else native spanish speakers. neither of these makes for very good basis in thought.

16:40:05 nubbins`: pero... pero...

16:40:14 mircea_popescu: pero perro.

16:41:07 nubbins`: :D

16:41:20 nubbins`: perro por favor!

16:43:01 mircea_popescu: and in today's funny spanish por gringos : one way to say butt in spanish is... tonel. literally, tun.

16:43:39 ben_vulpes: "tu tonel pesa un tonel"?

16:43:45 ben_vulpes: uno

16:44:11 mircea_popescu: i think it's a volume measure.

16:44:33 BingoBoingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQx1Urpcyfw

16:44:34 assbot: Ultimate Sex Underwear Ballbra and UnderwearPockets on CBC Dragons Den s4 e.10 - YouTube

16:44:36 ben_vulpes: as in mash tun?

16:45:07 mircea_popescu: as in 8 barrels.

16:45:22 mircea_popescu: (to be fair, in english the butt is a half tun anyway)

16:45:30 ben_vulpes: ha

16:45:54 nubbins`: dem weights & measures

16:46:13 nubbins`: my old man wrote a book once

16:47:02 nubbins`: i suppose the tun and the butt are in it

17:00:35 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell vexual http://fraudsters.com/2014/venetian-republic-and-find-spiritual-music/ there, just for you.

17:00:36 assbot: Venetian Republic and Find spiritual music. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

17:00:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:14:36 mircea_popescu: http://www.artdevanyonline.com/uploads/3/1/1/9/3119807/header_images/1392752910.jpg << what the shit is going on in the 4th image ?!

17:18:16 mircea_popescu: http://arthurdevany.com/case-experience.html "Estimated the delay to the production of ?Once Upon A Wedding? caused by food poisoning of the cast and crew."

17:18:17 assbot: Case Experience - Arthur De Vany Consulting

17:19:06 mircea_popescu: "On behalf of Universal Studios, The project was to examine and estimate the impact of piracy on box-office revenues for Universal?s 2003 release of the motion picture The Hulk. Modeled the dynamics of box office revenue and its relation to the number of sites and downloads of a pirated copy."

17:19:20 mircea_popescu: this guy's made a career out of numberology.

17:20:19 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/04/lets-cut-to-the-chase-is-la-serenissima-a-cult/

17:20:20 assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski

17:20:32 mircea_popescu: wd. what gave it away ?

17:20:40 BingoBoingo: First blockquote

17:20:47 mircea_popescu: more power to ya. addy ?

17:22:01 BingoBoingo: 1EJdNnzH9TaryxhS9Wg2VnSUqKHZgiJgx4

17:22:40 mircea_popescu: http://www.artdevanyonline.com/1/post/2013/09/statins-and-exercise.html << incidentally, this is an excellent point.

17:22:41 assbot: Statins and Exercise - Art De Vany on Line

17:23:27 mircea_popescu: more generally : the pharma industry, which works essentially on the "let's make random molecules and then see what happens" coupled with the fda pseudoverification theatre has managed to produce a lengthy list of very slow acting poisons.

17:23:48 mircea_popescu: basically stuff is selected for that "does no harm" in a particularly short sighted definition of "no".

17:24:46 mircea_popescu: i would wager myself to say that this very ill effect of the entire "intellectual property" charade actually outweights all the historical benefit predicated to have been accrued through its existence.

17:25:03 BingoBoingo: Well, that's why a family of drugs gets popular all at once and then it falls out of fashion when the long term side effects get noticed only to be replace with something that trades out the last generation's deteriment for another.

17:25:13 mircea_popescu: much like the mismanaged airlines of the early xxist century managed to lose AL THE MONEY ever made through flying since the invention of flight,

17:25:45 mircea_popescu: the idiotic us/eu pharma conglomerates have managed to outweigh all the benefit of opening trade sectrets (discussed coupla weeks ago here)

17:26:04 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in particular statins are an excellent example of this insanity.

17:26:25 mircea_popescu: "want to destroy your kidneys over 3 or so decades while curing yourself from something that's allegedly bad ? pay us 1k a year!"

17:26:39 BingoBoingo: Well cholesterol controlling medication has gone through this for a few generations already.

17:26:46 mircea_popescu: exactly.

17:27:21 mircea_popescu: i mean, it's just a replay of the "we have all this fluoridated sludge from aluminum processing and other industrial processes, getting rid of it is expensive, how about getting the city to pay us to add it to the water ?"

17:27:32 mircea_popescu: except, on a more subtle, thus more pernicious level.

17:28:31 mircea_popescu: people that derp about "bitcoin changing the world" have very little idea of the changes incumbent. it's things like these. mp will never permit the pharma "economic growth engine", as a for instance.

17:28:52 mircea_popescu: that's a third of the us economy, and about 30% of the eu.

17:30:59 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> i would wager myself to say that this very ill effect of the entire "intellectual property" charade actually outweights all the historical benefit predicated to have been accrued through its existence. << stealing this

17:31:39 mircea_popescu: go right ahead.

17:32:39 BingoBoingo: I mean there's the rare, almost unambiguously good drug introductions. Penicillin, Cisplatin, methotraxate, Viagra, thorazine, monoclonal antibodies

17:33:16 mircea_popescu: tadalafil etc may be too soon to know.

17:34:01 mircea_popescu: im pretty sure methotrexate is not on that list.

17:34:35 BingoBoingo: tadalafil one of the copycats. I'm talking Sildenafil, the original, which important because the the previous option is caverject.

17:34:53 mircea_popescu: even so.

17:35:39 BingoBoingo: The thing about the listed drugs is non of them except maybe thorazine is intended to be taken until "natural death"

17:35:51 mircea_popescu: this is a good objection

17:35:58 mircea_popescu: i mean, sulpha drugs are great

17:36:12 mircea_popescu: the notion of taking a pill a day for the rest of your life however ...

17:36:26 mircea_popescu: but perhaps that may be divorced from the ensemble, it's just dumb marketing.

17:38:14 BingoBoingo: Cisplatin and Methotrexate make the list because maybe they clear a cancer, maybe they don't. Those are the two biggish oncology discoveries though...

17:38:18 mircea_popescu: anyway, off to eat. later all!

17:49:39 TomServo: ;;bc,stats

17:49:40 gribble: Current Blocks: 329716 | Current Difficulty: 3.960366625241841E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 330623 | Next Difficulty In: 907 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 11 hours, 29 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 39944661549.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.86102

17:50:05 TomServo: ;;ticker

17:50:06 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 420.1, Best ask: 420.78, Bid-ask spread: 0.68000, Last trade: 420.1, 24 hour volume: 28154.26058302, 24 hour low: 364.18, 24 hour high: 421.13, 24 hour vwap: 392.399632228

17:50:45 TomServo: Quite the ramp today. Surprised ThickAsTheives isn't around for all this action.

17:53:22 BingoBoingo: Yeah

17:55:11 BingoBoingo: Prices swing usually bring TaT out. I think this is the dark market bust bump

18:01:00 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

18:01:01 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 434.13, Best ask: 434.41, Bid-ask spread: 0.28000, Last trade: 434.13, 24 hour volume: 29965.14739803, 24 hour low: 364.18, 24 hour high: 434.8, 24 hour vwap: 394.803918681

18:01:04 ben_vulpes: dang lookit her go

18:02:58 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

18:03:00 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 431.35, Best ask: 432.06, Bid-ask spread: 0.71000, Last trade: 432.05, 24 hour volume: 30185.42680255, 24 hour low: 364.18, 24 hour high: 434.8, 24 hour vwap: 394.803918681

18:04:10 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/bitcoin-prices-cross-430/

18:04:12 assbot: Bitcoin Prices Cross $430 | Qntra.net

18:04:56 punkman: no more cheap coins

18:07:05 BingoBoingo: Wat, I just earned 0.1 BTC for reading fraudsters, Vexual edition.

18:07:20 gernika: !s TaT

18:07:21 assbot: 1220 results for 'TaT' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=TaT

18:20:46 thestringpuller: where is scoopbot

18:20:51 thestringpuller: scoopbot don't got the scoop?

18:21:22 BingoBoingo: The scoopbot always on patch seems to need work

18:22:32 punkman: maybe I should setup RSS plugin for notarybot

18:27:45 thestringpuller: notarybot is merging with scoopbot?

18:29:06 punkman: probably not

18:29:11 punkman: notary, status

18:29:11 notary: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle 1 day, 12 hours, and 28 minutes ago

18:29:20 punkman: I like typing that

18:32:50 thestringpuller: notary, make sandwich

18:36:04 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2CDPKSX.txt )

18:36:04 danielpbarron: !b 4

18:39:48 BingoBoingo: notary, echo ;;ticker

18:45:10 BingoBoingo: Debian lulz https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/11/msg00144.html

18:45:11 assbot: Re: "done with consensus decisionmaking", "war", "rearguard battles" [was: Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling]

18:46:32 BingoBoingo: !up saifedean

18:48:45 saifedean: thanks for the voice bingoboingo

18:49:04 BingoBoingo: You're welcome

18:50:05 thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2i6pz0/peter_todds_checklocktimeverify_means_bitcoin/ckzdetm << reddit isn't fully retarded

18:58:45 saifedean: What do you good folk make of the Winkelvoss twins' foray into bitcoin?

19:00:31 thestringpuller: they were late to facebook and are now late to bitcoin (even thought they bought a ton early on)

19:00:42 thestringpuller: they seem to be late to parties a lot too

19:01:16 nubbins`: winkdex is best dex

19:01:24 nubbins`: can't trust them jaws tho

19:04:23 nubbins`: two days ago i realized i'd been waiting a month and a half for 18 unfiltered uv tubes from acklands-grainger

19:04:34 nubbins`: "fuck those assholes, i'm buying from somewhere else"

19:04:45 nubbins`: today i get an email saying my bulbs have arrived :0

19:06:14 asciilifeform: jurov: patches << http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html >> 404

19:09:29 thestringpuller: good 'ol hanbot

19:10:09 nubbins`: neither that good nor that old

19:11:28 thestringpuller: she is the evil twin

19:11:31 hanbot: howdy

19:11:51 hanbot: nubbins wanna see my complaint dept? :D

19:14:52 thestringpuller: i would assume that is just a box that leads to a shredder

19:17:57 nubbins`: ;;google teeth (2007)

19:17:58 gribble: Teeth (2007) - IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780622/; Teeth (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth_(film); Teeth (2007) - Movie Trailer - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-qd-k0Vg7s

19:18:05 hanbot: nah, gotta have souring agents to make good pickles

19:18:21 *: nubbins` guffaws

19:19:29 nubbins`: was it you who wrote that short story about the pgp murder-suicide?

19:20:27 hanbot: http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered/ << that? yeah.

19:20:28 assbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet

19:21:04 asciilifeform: 'shall be delivered' << imho the single most educational piece of crypto-related fiction ever written.

19:21:58 asciilifeform: belongs on the mandatory reading list for cultured people of the future, right next to 'the cold equations'

19:23:32 hanbot: ha! color me flattered

19:24:49 hanbot: mp oughta be goaded into making moar writing contests, they're fun

19:25:12 thestringpuller: It is national novel writing month

19:26:06 asciilifeform: that tale carries much of the blame for luring me into this den of vice.

19:27:41 hanbot: a far worthier prize then than that 5 btc!

19:28:03 asciilifeform: l0l

19:29:12 thestringpuller: the end of the story reminds me of scene from rashomon

19:35:05 nubbins`: nanowrimo

19:36:00 thestringpuller: ^- yup.

19:59:00 asciilifeform: http://www.cs.umd.edu/class/fall2013/cmsc417/public/assignments/project_bitCoin.pdf << lol. 'yesterday's nobel prize is tomorrow's homework assignment.'

20:02:05 mircea_popescu: lol

20:10:10 mircea_popescu: assbot:

20:10:11 mircea_popescu: Re: "done with consensus decisionmaking", "war", "rearguard battles" [was: Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling] << bwhahaha

20:15:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, news at 11. it's not just bitcoin the shitgnomes are after, but the entire stack of software guaranteeing a free world.

20:16:06 mircea_popescu: therein included, stuff that merely promises the possibility of it, such as debian.

20:16:23 asciilifeform: news at 11 is exactly right. this has been going on for a long, long time, have to be blind not to see

20:16:42 mircea_popescu: leaving aside that nobody i ever knew was seriously using the newer debian releases anyway for any purpose, you';d have to be fucking insane to think the way this goes is, we kill their heartbleed and they sit and wait.

20:17:03 mircea_popescu: what happened here is exactly the equivalent of, "sniper got obama between the eyes with a shitbullet, while on conference with the security staff"

20:17:12 mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, the world trade center bombing.

20:17:29 mircea_popescu: the only thing the bureaucracy knows how to do, and can in fact do, is in the words of V,

20:17:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also must understand the 'good cop / bad cop' dynamic here. the buggers lure folks to their sugary 'imponade' (see naggum) by, among other things, sabotaging the rest of the universe

20:18:11 mircea_popescu: how did that go exactly,

20:18:40 mircea_popescu: Sutler: My fellow Englishmen: tonight our country, that which we stand for, and all we hold dear, faces a grave and terrible threat. This violent and unparalleled assault on our security will not go undefended... or unpunished. Our enemy is an insidious one, seeking to divide us and destroy the very foundation of our great nation. Tonight, we must remain steadfast. We must remain determined. But most of all, we must re

20:18:40 mircea_popescu: main united. Those caught tonight in violation of curfew will be considered in league with our enemy and prosecuted as a terrorist without leniency or exception. Tonight, I give you my most solemn vow: that justice will be swift, it will be righteous, and it will be without mercy.

20:18:43 mircea_popescu: there we go.

20:18:58 mircea_popescu: now, if it actually also worked, it may count for something. it doesn't work, so i guess it's good for lulz.

20:19:09 asciilifeform: lol! i actually saw that film for the first time a few days ago.

20:19:18 mircea_popescu: it's a pretty good filn.

20:19:59 mircea_popescu: so yeah, whatever, im so thoroughly impressed with the oh-so-almighty hb headshot response bitcoin went all the way up to 420

20:20:30 asciilifeform: waterfall's being recharged as we speak.

20:20:42 thestringpuller: well waterfall no longer has use

20:20:48 mircea_popescu: nobody ever won a war by being stupid.

20:21:04 asciilifeform: all the 'sr2' et. al. schmucks are grunting in the cellars, confessing keys.

20:21:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it wasn't all that big.

20:21:35 mircea_popescu: it sounds impressive, but once the dust settled it became obvious what they got was something that everyone thought a scam and a cvouple of tiny ops

20:21:41 mircea_popescu: the two major marketplaces were unaffected

20:21:46 mircea_popescu: at least so teh intel tells me.

20:22:06 mircea_popescu: actual total loot, <2k.

20:22:10 thestringpuller: lol you have a spy ring now nao?

20:22:24 asciilifeform: 2k << enough for small planetoid.

20:22:27 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i have had a spyring from before satoshi had a clue on c

20:23:15 thestringpuller: tinker tailor soldier spy!

20:25:12 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller:

20:25:12 mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2i6pz0/peter_todds_checklocktimeverify_means_bitcoin/ckzdetm << reddit isn't fully retarded << basically, they know they won't get away witrh a hard fork, trying to dissolve the "gavin is making a hardfork" issue into a seemingly better "everyone wants a hardfork, gavin's is just the one that emerged from the democratic hardforking process"

20:25:15 assbot: optimists comments on Peter Todd's CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY Means Bitcoin Escrow, Refunds and a Fork

20:25:36 mircea_popescu: which i suppose is long enough an intricacy that the retards won't be able to follow it.

20:25:49 mircea_popescu: the problem with this entire usg strat is that bitcoin never was and likely never will be for the retards.

20:26:10 asciilifeform: everyone wants... gavin's is just the one that emerged << precisely same verbiage as the pro-poettering useful idiots. vox derpuli, vox dei!

20:26:20 mircea_popescu: what they get or don't get is not material here. i understand that it's hard for politicos to look past pretty much their only asset, skill and ability, the herd.

20:26:22 mircea_popescu: nevertheless...

20:26:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right./

20:26:58 thestringpuller: so this is all plan to get away with hard fork in future?

20:27:19 mircea_popescu: it's "political groundwork" or w/e you call it.

20:27:27 mircea_popescu: basically, feminism for code.

20:28:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, they want a hardfork or five hundred, they can get it any time they feel ready.

20:28:29 mircea_popescu: but let it be clear that if we get that far i will paying for abducted and gangraped usg politico daughters, and putting the videos online.

20:29:04 thestringpuller: i would assume no less. it would seem though that in the future commandment 1 of bitcoin would be:

20:29:07 mircea_popescu: ex-powerful, now irrelevant duke derping around the corners of the new order, whining pathetic is one thing. raising actual banners to, that's beheading.

20:29:10 thestringpuller: "Thou shalt not hardfork"

20:31:03 mircea_popescu: in case this wasn't entirely clear : the foregoing has little to do with todd personally.

20:31:25 mircea_popescu: at issue is the gavinesque/redditarded interpretation of what's being proposed, especially in the "how to implement" side.

20:31:30 thestringpuller: he does seem too "dull" to have his own agenda.

20:33:19 thestringpuller: i just find it fascinating that the percent of redditards against any hard fork is going up by a lot.

20:33:23 mircea_popescu: -/** Threshold for nLockTime: below this value it is interpreted as block number, otherwise as UNIX timestamp. */

20:33:23 mircea_popescu: 67 -static const unsigned int LOCKTIME_THRESHOLD = 500000000; // Tue Nov 5 00:53:20 1985 UTC

20:33:26 mircea_popescu: random lulz.

20:33:36 mircea_popescu: because magic numbers and stuff.

20:34:07 thestringpuller: too many to count

20:34:12 mircea_popescu: nobody knows why not make it 1bn lol.

20:34:35 thestringpuller: why ask for billions when you can get millions?

20:34:35 mircea_popescu: it passed in 2001, it would allow sane biteshifts etc.

20:37:05 mircea_popescu: sheeeit, i paid ppl 5 btc to write stories ?

20:37:16 mircea_popescu: truely i am a broken hand in the chest of bitcoins.

20:38:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of nobel prizes, god help us if satoshi ends up awarded the nobel for chemistry and gavin dressed up as princess leila

20:38:23 mircea_popescu: shows up to receive it.

20:40:37 mircea_popescu: by the way, since BingoBoingo brought up methotrexate earlier :

20:41:01 thestringpuller: princess leia* (sorry)

20:42:07 mircea_popescu: this thing works as a highly afine for folate that locks out dfhr, impeding tetrahydrofolic acid synthesis, without which you can't have a nucleus, or many proteins.

20:42:46 mircea_popescu: back in the 50s, aminopterin was discovered, which does exactly that, and was used to treat leukemia

20:42:53 mircea_popescu: (and other things offlabel, like psoriasis)

20:43:18 mircea_popescu: the company that marketed it also marketed amethopterin, which is in many ways similar.

20:44:00 mircea_popescu: soon enough the production of the former was judged too expensive, the latter was rebranded as methotrexate, and a history of "bad side effects" and other fud was created retroactively for aminopterin.

20:44:39 mircea_popescu: as the patents are starting to expire now, the secret everyone know "is being investigated" : aminopterin is actually more effectual in the role of folate synthesis blocker, perhaps not just in the case of leukemia.

20:45:29 asciilifeform: folks who are n00bs re: pharma racket - the above is SOP.

20:45:31 mircea_popescu: and this is all okay, because well... science.

20:45:51 mircea_popescu: so then you know, your average thinking person gets really upset once they hear about the entire "global warming" scam,

20:46:08 mircea_popescu: and the people in the game are really amazed by the reaction. "what's the big deal ? we've been doing this forever nobody complained ?"

20:46:10 mircea_popescu: well...

20:46:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, which is why i'm writing it out. easily verified, completely unfamiliar to the general public.

20:50:22 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, methotrexate is used as an abortifacent, notwithstanding that ethacridine lactate is cheaper, can be used without needing a hospital visit and much safer.

20:50:41 mircea_popescu: the parts "cheap" "can be self administered" somehow override "safer" in this construction.

20:52:07 mircea_popescu: who could pass up on some liver damage for the holy cause of keeping the insides of one's body away from themselves.

21:05:39 jurov: $proxies

21:05:40 empyex: jurov: Proxies: mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91

21:05:41 empyex: jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.biz (107 milliseconds), mpex.ws (107 milliseconds), mpex.bz (107 milliseconds), mpex.co (114 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (474 milliseconds)

21:05:42 empyex: jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √

21:10:17 jurov: mircea_popescu: http://mpex.ws/db_dump.php and commands don't work

21:11:13 mircea_popescu: jurov looking into it.

21:11:49 mircea_popescu: jurov http://mpex.co/db_dump.php you see that ?

21:12:14 mircea_popescu: .ws seems to have divorced itself from the mothership

21:12:17 jurov: yes, it's limited to mpex.ws

21:12:45 jurov: will also mail you anoother problem ina minute

21:21:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230104 @ 0.00064071 = 147.4299 BTC [+] {9}

21:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101800 @ 0.00063753 = 64.9006 BTC [-] {7}

21:23:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137208 @ 0.00064302 = 88.2275 BTC [+] {10}

21:24:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167487 @ 0.00064265 = 107.6355 BTC [-] {7}

21:25:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124972 @ 0.00064056 = 80.0521 BTC [-] {8}

21:26:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39807 @ 0.00064749 = 25.7746 BTC [+] {2}

21:30:40 punkman: !up Flyer9933

21:32:20 punkman: !up menahem

21:39:38 jurov: <asciilifeform> jurov: patches << http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html >> 404 << because you haven't sent any. it will get generated when you send them

21:40:19 assbot: jborkl_ +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

21:40:30 mircea_popescu: !up jborkl_

21:40:37 jborkl_: thank you

21:40:45 asciilifeform: you send them << wai me?

21:43:41 nubbins`: why do i have to send the letter, i wrote the damn thing

21:46:29 jurov: i can send the patches myself but did not looked into them yet

21:46:45 jurov: so just posting them with my sig would be rather bad precedent

21:46:54 mircea_popescu: omg it sends the letter or it gets the hose again

21:47:14 asciilifeform: jurov: i signed my patches. so if sent, from whatever addr, they should be displayed. (with note that one user signed.)

21:47:27 ben_vulpes: rather bad form.

21:47:29 jurov: and where are they?

21:47:46 asciilifeform: jurov: once someone (you, ben_vulpes, whoever) reads them - can also sign, and display will read 'two people signed...'

21:48:01 mircea_popescu: he has a point here. asciilifeform so where are they again ?

21:48:05 jurov: yes this is how i fucking did it

21:48:16 jurov: it jsut needs to be fed the fuking emails

21:48:19 jurov: okay?

21:48:37 asciilifeform: where are they << http://therealbitcoin.org

21:49:18 mircea_popescu: ok, dun get jurov angry, email the stuff lol

21:52:42 nubbins`: do you have any idea how much stamps cost these days

21:52:54 jborkl_: I was looking for any practical advice on monetizing my site, did not know if any of you had some (advice) on this matter?

21:54:07 mike_c: jborkl_: throw up a bitbet ad with your referral address.

21:54:27 nubbins`: ooo i just found 100 sheets of paper i didn't know i had

21:55:00 nubbins`: scoopbot what's the scoop

21:55:50 jborkl_: i tries adsense for a week, did not like that. So the idea ben vulpes had was right on target but I am not sure if that is ongoing? ok, thankd mike_c

21:56:00 jborkl_: thanks

21:56:43 asciilifeform: sent a patch to turdatron. no worky.

21:56:58 mike_c: referral money is simply CPA instead of CPM (actions instead of clicks). it should do as well as traditional ads, and likely better given you don't have an ad sales team.

21:57:14 asciilifeform: this is getting rather tiresome.

21:57:56 mircea_popescu: nubbins` 55c ?

21:58:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what did it say if anything ?

21:58:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as far as i can see - it merely disappeared into the aether.

21:58:51 jborkl_: yeah, I have the chicken and the egg problem. Now I have traffic, but not know what to do with it. I concentrated so much on making it all and writing the code, I never thought what was next

22:08:00 jurov: asciilifeform: thanks, i need something to chew on. apparently mailman mangled the patch before saving to archive

22:08:16 jurov: but if you received it by email, signature is okay

22:09:19 asciilifeform: jurov: i received nothing, i thought that was clear.

22:09:34 asciilifeform: jurov: sent message, correctly formatted, patch and patch sig attached, nothing happened.

22:09:45 jurov: are you registered?

22:09:58 jurov: without registration it's send only

22:10:54 asciilifeform: jurov: ok, registered now.

22:12:04 jurov: ok. you can send other ones

22:12:36 jurov: that damned stuff just decided to snip newline in the end of file before archiving

22:12:49 jurov: and then declared signature invalid

22:13:09 jurov: *end of patch

22:13:30 cazalla: jborkl_, have you considered writing for qntra?

22:13:54 asciilifeform: jurov: sent again - no dice?

22:13:56 cazalla: !up jborkl_

22:14:41 jurov: no i did not fix it yet. but at least it's here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-November/000010.html

22:15:04 asciilifeform: jurov: and why not here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-November/thread.html ?

22:15:05 assbot: The BTC-dev November 2014 Archive by thread

22:15:31 jurov: overly eager caching

22:15:50 asciilifeform: jurov: caching?

22:15:53 jurov: looking into it

22:16:25 jurov: i have put amazon TurdFront (r) (tm) in front of it

22:16:55 jurov: it already helped the site to survive aone ddos without anyone noticing

22:17:26 jurov: but i'll thry to configure the timeouts shorter

22:17:54 asciilifeform: jurov: nothing in my email either.

22:18:21 jurov: mhm i got both... looked into spam?

22:18:30 asciilifeform: jurov: yes looked.

22:21:05 jurov: postfix/smtp[9200]: 5DA58147C: to=<stas@loper-os.org>, relay=mx-fwd-1.nearlyfreespeech.net[]:25, delay=2.1, delays=0.21/0/0.46/1.4, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 from MTA(smtp:[]:10027): 250 Queued on server)

22:21:15 jurov: ...

22:21:31 jurov: nsa intercepted it

22:21:39 asciilifeform: jurov: my mailbox is not at fault, it works for everyone else.

22:22:45 jurov: i don't parse this

22:22:55 jurov: you mean it works for everything else?

22:22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: problem is 100% on your end.

22:23:29 jurov: that's incredibly helpful, thanks

22:23:41 asciilifeform: jurov: that, or we don't have a working internet yet.

22:25:26 jurov: i'm out of ideas. maybe it got greylisted but then the log would say sth else

22:27:19 mircea_popescu: jurov it shows your own emails but not his ?

22:28:00 asciilifeform: jurov: i don't have any fancy filtration on my end

22:28:23 asciilifeform: jurov: but so far the results are not encouraging. email doesn't really work!

22:28:27 jurov: mx-fwd-1.nearlyfreespeech.net isn't your machine?

22:28:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in its defense, email hasn't really worked for ~40 years now.

22:28:44 asciilifeform: jurov: it's a relayer, but it has never failed. not once.

22:31:24 mircea_popescu: vaguely related, how long you been using these guys ? do you know em ?

22:32:16 mircea_popescu: !up novusordo

22:32:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been using that hoster since starting my site, >7yrs. ago. they're absolutely super. the cost is virtually unbeatable for low-traffic, simple sites. and, on top of this, almost wholly ddos-proof.

22:32:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik they only eat usd however.

22:33:04 mircea_popescu: a) do you know them ? and b) can they be lured or strongarmed into taking bitcoin ?

22:33:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't know them alive, no. but it is entirely possible that they could be lured. it's a small family op, afaik.

22:34:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform write to the owner/admin/whatever ticket system you use, tell him that i am offering $100 in bitcoin if they as much as show up here, to claim it.

22:34:11 mircea_popescu: that can't possibly take em an hour.

22:34:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i learned of them when looked for a hoster that specializes in censor resistance (through traditional legal-wrangling, rather than fancy tech. it was another age.)

22:35:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i shall write.

22:35:07 novusordo: asciilifeform: what hoster are you discussing? been looking for one myself.

22:35:18 mircea_popescu: novusordo https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/

22:35:18 assbot: About NearlyFreeSpeech.NET

22:35:23 asciilifeform: novusordo: 'nearly free speech'

22:35:29 novusordo: thanks

22:35:42 mircea_popescu: anyway, i must say i am thankful to the "experts". they've got the rot so advanced by now it's sufficient to look at a site and know you're dealing with actual experts.

22:35:56 mircea_popescu: greatly simplifies the process and saves me a bundle of moneyz this.

22:42:51 novusordo: after reading some of the FAQ it sounds like they follow much of the same philosophy as tarsnap.

22:44:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wrote letter.

22:44:23 mircea_popescu: danke.

22:44:35 mircea_popescu: novusordo i thought that was a backup solution

22:44:57 mircea_popescu: but speaking of which... it does sort-of tie into yest discussion asciilifeform

22:45:03 mircea_popescu: how about something like tarsnap ?

22:45:29 novusordo: yeah it is a backup solution

22:45:36 novusordo: not hosting

22:45:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tarsnap isn't really a public access gizmo

22:45:44 novusordo: but by same philosophy I meant in pricing

22:45:50 novusordo: pay-for-what-you-use

22:45:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but neither is bitcoin.

22:46:03 mircea_popescu: as long as it's an anon expert access gizmo, it should qualify neh ?

22:46:29 mircea_popescu: "public access" is a myth, of the same substance as the man-month.

22:47:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what i meant was, that it offers no useful mechanisms for anything other than, well, making ordinary backups for own use.

22:47:17 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/bnp-paribas-five-ways-bitcoin-could-shake-up-finance/

22:47:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you have some notion of how to transmute that into a solution to yesterday's conundrum - i'm all ears.

22:49:51 mircea_popescu: i guess my idea reduces to "paint a brick black and pray to it" huh.

22:49:52 mircea_popescu: a well.

22:51:26 The20YearIRCloud: Looks like we (RentalStarter) are in contract for two more homes, putting our total to 12 properties / 17 units

22:52:35 Apocalyptic: cazalla, re your article, "once regulators and politicians control and enable the continued development of Bitcoin", they can't be that clueless, how the hell do they hope to "control the continued development" ? by sending a gavin-bis ?

22:52:38 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/11/ethereums-contract-language-implemented-on-the-bitcoin-blockchain-with-counterparty/

22:53:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/belief2002

22:53:22 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic lulz gotta lulz.

22:54:46 mircea_popescu: cazalla did you mean to say "the article is trying to push the humorous theory" instead of "concludes" ?

22:55:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice blast from teh past huh.

22:56:08 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, that's a much better formulation

22:57:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XwwiZPPa

22:59:32 mircea_popescu: you must be logged in to access this area....

23:00:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/bQyAKJqY << here.

23:00:05 assbot: NearlyFreeSpeech.NET Forum Index Member Support Forums SearchSearch Regi - Pastebin.com

23:00:54 mircea_popescu: lol 10k ?

23:01:04 mircea_popescu: a well.

23:01:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad part is, they have a point. they can't eat it.

23:01:40 mircea_popescu: they can't eat it, they can't leave.

23:01:43 mircea_popescu: i also have a point.

23:01:50 mircea_popescu: live*

23:02:18 mircea_popescu: but i'll make sure to charge a mango my digestion fees next i run into one.

23:02:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mango happily pays. that's what digestion is all about.

23:02:56 mircea_popescu: so did i. well, up until 5 minutes ago.

23:03:15 mircea_popescu: as a matter of policy, it will now cost these guys 10k to get any of my business, and if they ever get into the wot i'll negrate them right off.

23:04:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol. why the emotion. the article told the sad truth: 'We have nothing to spend bitcoins on...'

23:04:32 mircea_popescu: no emotion. i am telling the sad truth just as much : adapt or die.

23:05:03 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is not here asking random derp some favours. no matter who the derp thinks he is.

23:05:11 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is his lifeline. pass on it, well... death.

23:06:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this death is a collective one. or, go try to tell the nearly free speech folks how to get their upstream isp to take btc, and where to get spare disks and pizza for it, and in such a way that it doesn't immediately end up in the waterfall, etc.

23:06:37 mircea_popescu: color me a color that connotes caring.

23:07:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31228 @ 0.00056414 = 17.617 BTC [-] {2}

23:07:04 mircea_popescu: im sure the mango is going to want to talk to the upstream enzymes about matters too ?

23:07:14 undata: asciilifeform: so sell out when you receive them via derpbase?

23:07:19 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how do you buy things with btc that don't end up in the waterfall?

23:07:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no one was asked to care, but trying to explain here that folks are sizzling in an electric chair not necessarily of their own making, rather than simple death through individual folly

23:07:47 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller actually, here's a fun notion : outside of fraudsters credits, pretty much everything is really just facelifted paypal.

23:07:55 mircea_popescu: so in a sense, i'm the one thing supporting this here bitcoin economy.

23:07:58 cazalla: Apocalyptic, mircea_popescu, i will go cry in the corner and rethink my approach

23:08:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, it's their folly.

23:08:24 mircea_popescu: many smart people suffer from the what's his face mental issues

23:08:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to draw a simple picture of what you'd do in their place ?

23:08:43 mircea_popescu: jesus, who was the electrician turned expert in physics again ?

23:09:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tesla?

23:09:05 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: seems the only option is the swap coins with someone who isn't going to put them in the waterfall :P

23:09:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either take the hundred offer or go to war.

23:09:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah nah brb digging archives

23:09:40 mircea_popescu: ;;google site:fraudsters.com how to fail

23:09:40 gribble: How to fail - the Scott Locklin method. pe fraudsters - Un blog de ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/how-to-fail-the-scott-locklin-method/; It's been an epic few days: What happened? pe fraudsters - Un blog de ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/its-been-an-epic-few-days-what-happened/; In defense of the troll pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/in-defense-of-the- (1 more message)

23:09:44 mircea_popescu: there we go.

23:10:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: physics student turned electrician (experimental physics) turned 'quant' aha.

23:10:02 mircea_popescu: "oh i am great and speshul and what is this thing"

23:10:27 mircea_popescu: should be in the dsm-6, this,.

23:10:44 mircea_popescu: "thought bitcoin is some sort of optional thing like widescreen tvs or some shit"

23:11:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that is still not how i read that one. it was more of a 'what is this martian trinary computer, where can i plug it in? with what sauce can i eat it'. and iirc that was your own initial reaction in '11.

23:11:24 mircea_popescu: my reaction was subtly but essentialy different. it was "how do you expect this to work ?"

23:12:05 mircea_popescu: cue me in 2011 going "sorry, but unless you folks do my homework for me bitcoin sucks. i got math and rom lit."

23:12:33 mircea_popescu: and in any effect, i most motherfucking DEFINITELY did what told, by the people who knew

23:12:49 mircea_popescu: rather than try to conjure up imaginary molehils of secure superiority to take refuge upon.

23:15:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my reaction just now was 'why won't they show up and at least talk' but then realized that this may be the flip side of the medal, so to speak, of the same conservative thinking that ultimately made n.f.s. co. even interesting in the first place (they've resisted every known variety of crud)

23:15:13 mircea_popescu: no argument.

23:15:37 mircea_popescu: this is a major blindspot of the conservative mindset : rigidity.

23:15:58 mircea_popescu: the fact that the spots go on the cheetah as part of what it is saved no cheetah to date.

23:16:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but brings back to the fact that usaschwitz is a thing. if i presently had to rely on btc for anything life-sustaining, i'd be quite dead.

23:16:33 mircea_popescu: yet here you are.

23:16:43 mircea_popescu: somehow you're of worse human quality than jeff is the argument here ?

23:16:52 mircea_popescu: it's ok for you but too much to ask of him ?

23:16:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: death is a hard boundary for experiments. once dead, no 'let's try this differently'

23:17:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48555 @ 0.00056475 = 27.4214 BTC [+] {2}

23:17:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i weigh less than an isp/hoster/restaurant/etc. yes.

23:17:58 mircea_popescu: plenty of people manage to juggle a wife and a job and an insane government and still be here. i'm not one of them, as it happens, but that's neither here nor there : to condone jeffidiocy would be more of an insult to their otherwise unguilty face than i can stomach.

23:19:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fact is, i and the other jugglers - find ways to hoover up enough usd to pay the usd-eaters in.

23:20:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0005676 = 3.4056 BTC [+]

23:22:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: moving a functioning usd-fueled business to btc - other matter. especially if you're sensitive about not wishing to fatten vultures.

23:23:33 mircea_popescu: you can still take a quarter.

23:24:11 mircea_popescu: fuck, maybe the people throwing away quarters know all about n answers you can't find on your own.

23:24:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can't really argue that 'no we won't even talk' was a correct answer. but i do understand how a n00b might associate bitcoin as-a-concept with the derps and sp4mz0rs.

23:25:03 mircea_popescu: but no, because conservative mindset depends on random derp being the king of all creation. which works about as well as you'd expect, boring in the bedroom, offensive in the forum, etc.

23:26:02 mircea_popescu: i can also understand how half the heads populating pikes around the stronghold used to be attached to people who didn't mean to.

23:26:08 mircea_popescu: what's that do for us ?

23:27:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if there's a psychiatric lesson here, it is that resisting crud is not necessarily from cleverness, but could also be on account of being a goat herder in afghanistan and what even is all this recycled food.

23:27:51 mircea_popescu: surely.

23:28:14 mircea_popescu: which is why distinction is so important and processes that enact it so useful.

23:28:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one could also hypothesize again about 'married men' and who can or cannot afford to take what risk, etc.

23:29:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, my takeaway is that firmness is a quality, but rigidity a sin. the boob rule : good if made out of young woman, bad if made out of bone.

23:29:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and the remaining lesson, possibly, is that we are still without a general-purpose btc-powered hoster.

23:30:19 mircea_popescu: maybe PinkPosixPXE chick gets her dusts in a row.

23:34:03 mircea_popescu: !up hank_

23:37:12 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i picked out an XMas present for you early.

23:41:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33941 @ 0.0005676 = 19.2649 BTC [+]

23:46:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53817 @ 0.00056186 = 30.2376 BTC [-]

23:48:27 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course all of those agents were found because after seeing folate's role in cell synthesis, feeding a bunch of leukemias high dose folate was assumed to be the way. It helped the cancer so much!