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Transcript for 13-11-2014, 1537 lines:

00:05:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 17183 @ 0.0012 = 20.6196 BTC

00:19:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00056001 = 6.9441 BTC [-]

00:22:37 mike_c: just in case it's helpful, i was seeing some wonkiness with mpex.ws last night too but didn't have time to debug. so the problem may be 24+ hours old.

00:25:42 mircea_popescu: just about.

00:30:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00056001 = 18.9843 BTC [-]

00:36:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13378 @ 0.00055966 = 7.4871 BTC [-] {2}

00:38:07 mircea_popescu: notary deed http://pastebin.com/CXcwTz7S

00:38:10 assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Your dividend payment for S. - Pastebin.com

00:38:10 notary: mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

00:47:41 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo heh myeah.

00:47:49 mircea_popescu: medicine is a... strongly experimental science.

01:22:04 cazalla: BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0065.mediawiki <<< anyone care to provide thoughts on whether this is a good or bad thing?

01:22:05 assbot: bips/bip-0065.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub

01:23:38 BingoBoingo: On it's own it's a naive thing, but the conversation around it will lead to bad things as it will probably lead to hard fork talk to set the stage for the blocksize increase discussion.

01:24:21 cazalla: there you go thestringpuller, i was almost right

01:24:26 cazalla: well, on target

01:34:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13607 @ 0.00056017 = 7.6222 BTC [+]

01:34:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/Bn88rOZ

01:34:30 assbot: asciilifeform's mail - Imgur

01:40:21 dub: 1% losses for shareholders on s.wol is one interpretation

01:41:21 dub: i think its worth noting that for eveyone other than mp and mike it was a 50-80% loss

01:46:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: bip-0065 << classic 'relevance farming.' the phoundation will take any excuse to add cruft to the gizmo. in their fantasy, folks will use it, and those who have resisted their turds will be forced to merge in.

01:47:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. but what is on the other? the miners' mystery forks? our gadget, that doesn't even load the blockchain?

01:49:38 BingoBoingo: The Manul's greatest asset in combat is that through the fur, an adversary can not tell from where on the moving limbs the claws will emerge

01:50:28 asciilifeform: !s in the game of chess you must never

01:50:28 assbot: 1 results for 'in the game of chess you must never' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=in+the+game+of+chess+you+must+never

01:53:19 BingoBoingo: Well, that's why I prefer playing as black and starting with small pawn moves. Harder for the opponent to see in the dark.

01:54:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ahahaha wow.

01:54:40 mircea_popescu: was it read ?

01:54:49 asciilifeform: i only just now opened it!

01:55:00 asciilifeform: and more mysteries:

01:55:01 asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/KunZAwf

01:55:01 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

01:55:01 mircea_popescu: i mean b4

01:55:02 mircea_popescu: is it used ?

01:55:05 asciilifeform: why isbn is shit...

01:55:14 asciilifeform: and why is 'zenofeller.com' now a linkpharm?

01:55:45 asciilifeform: book was clearly thumbed

01:55:55 asciilifeform: and has a most peculiar smell, like old turkish bubble-gum

01:56:02 asciilifeform: faint but detectable.

01:57:08 mircea_popescu: ha!

01:57:52 mircea_popescu: lol you can read leetspeak nao ?

01:58:19 asciilifeform: n3v3r

01:58:40 *: asciilifeform admits he parsed 'b4' as half a chess tuple

01:58:44 asciilifeform: but that's BingoBoingo's fault

01:59:03 mircea_popescu: lol

01:59:16 asciilifeform: at any rate, chukcha is a writer not reader.

01:59:53 mircea_popescu: !t m s.wol

01:59:53 assbot: [MPEX:S.WOL] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000086 / 0.000086 / 0.000086 (2 shares, 0.00 BTC)

02:00:00 mircea_popescu: hm lessee here.

02:01:37 mircea_popescu: dub total satoshsi : 2129446090 total shares 525903

02:01:58 mircea_popescu: that means an average lifetime price of 4k, it closed at ~3k.

02:02:40 mircea_popescu: that aside, mp and mike sold what was it, 5 btc worth at 3k.

02:03:22 mircea_popescu: that leaves a 16 btc worth of volume, which was exactly half making a gain while exactly the other half made a loss.

02:04:32 mircea_popescu: kinda how this entire trading thing goes.

02:08:00 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. << do tell ?

02:08:16 mircea_popescu: what was on "their" side of the line keeping skirts below the knee ?

02:08:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on their side - presumably, the turd.

02:08:24 asciilifeform: their turd.

02:08:30 mircea_popescu: the jeff of 1950 knew all about how computers "won't catch on"

02:08:42 mircea_popescu: there's never anything on their side of the line is the thing.

02:10:00 *: mircea_popescu remembers a time "the line" was, you gotta raise a woman's kids to get laid and you gotta pay a hooker to get your cock sucked.

02:10:09 mircea_popescu: worked so admirably well, teh line.

02:11:13 asciilifeform: did not say 'they' win. said - there shall be war.

02:11:27 mircea_popescu: after a fashion.

02:11:41 mircea_popescu: but yes. definitely.

02:12:08 *: asciilifeform armchair admiral, and cannot presume to know what sort of war, fought with what

02:12:13 mircea_popescu: would be a sore loss to win without a war. instead of a solid enjoyment of rape and plunder, do not pass go, directly to the trudge of administration ?

02:12:14 mircea_popescu: fuck that.

02:12:32 mircea_popescu: war is generally the best part.

02:12:57 asciilifeform: at any rate, 'jeff of 1950' was not entirely wrong; computers have yet to really catch on...

02:13:11 mircea_popescu: ofcourse.

02:13:35 mircea_popescu: which is why either he has one or his kids want one for xmas.

02:14:15 mircea_popescu: !up Vexual

02:15:17 Vexual: thanks for the link to your blogpost mp, not I know what I sound like 3 force drunk

02:15:24 mircea_popescu: lol

02:17:17 Vexual: what happened with wol?

02:18:40 Vexual: all the players died from seizures or something?

02:18:43 mircea_popescu: it got no love

02:19:07 BingoBoingo: It's parimutuel model was prolly too fair in pricing

02:22:50 undata: asciilifeform | at any rate, 'jeff of 1950' was not entirely wrong; computers have yet to really catch on... << this printing thing hasn't really caught on yet; all they're printing are more bibles

02:31:41 BingoBoingo: http://theweek.com/article/index/271644/its-time-to-abolish-the-interstate-highway-system

02:31:42 assbot: It's time to abolish the Interstate Highway System - The Week

02:34:16 nubbins`: <The20YearIRCloud> Looks like we (RentalStarter) are in contract for two more homes, putting our total to 12 properties / 17 units

02:34:25 BingoBoingo: ^ The TLDR, shift some bezzel around and make it easier for the US to partition further

02:34:26 nubbins`: at this rate you'll have the first poster given away in no time 8)

02:34:42 The20YearIRCloud: already given away a few of em nubbins`

02:35:03 nubbins`: i eagerly await pictures

02:35:18 The20YearIRCloud: i gave em instructions

02:35:28 nubbins`: fwiw i think they'd have been better served given to people who we'd like to see in here, but hey, i'm just the printer 8)

02:35:46 nubbins`: and i guess taleb's mailing address is hard to find.

02:36:19 Vexual: send it to his publisher

02:36:21 The20YearIRCloud: I wanted to run a contest and give a few away to non-tenants, as they'd likely have much more of a desire for em

02:36:33 The20YearIRCloud: most of our tenants don't have PCs

02:37:08 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

02:37:09 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 431.29, Best ask: 431.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.65000, Last trade: 431.94, 24 hour volume: 45124.17445036, 24 hour low: 375.97, 24 hour high: 434.8, 24 hour vwap: 408.121751826

02:37:42 BingoBoingo: What about lacquering them onto the doors?

02:37:53 The20YearIRCloud: lol, that could be interesting

02:43:51 asciilifeform: most of our tenants don't have PCs << wai wat

02:43:59 Vexual: yeah, that got me too

02:44:00 asciilifeform: they are paying in btc without computer ?

02:44:16 Vexual: paper moeny

02:46:43 The20YearIRCloud: Money, cash, cashier's checks, checks, ect, no one so far has ever heard of BTC, along with most not having access to a computer

02:47:32 asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: where does the btc come in then

02:47:39 *: asciilifeform thought 'rentalstarter' was a btc thing

02:47:57 The20YearIRCloud: tenants pay in USD

02:48:01 The20YearIRCloud: otherwise we'd be broke

02:48:05 mircea_popescu: "T

02:48:06 mircea_popescu: he 114th Congress may seem like an unlikely source of major reform. With the Republicans in control of both houses and a second-term Democratic president wielding the veto pen"

02:48:14 mircea_popescu: ahem. yeah it's a likely source of major fucking reform.

02:48:32 mircea_popescu: consisting principally of throwing out 80 years of accumulated gunk masquerading as "reform"

02:48:42 mircea_popescu: from delano to obama, a bridge of shit.

02:49:05 decimation: asciilifeform: I finished 17 moments of spring, thanks for the recommendation. It was an interesting show

02:49:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from delano to obama << 'от ильича до ильича'

02:49:32 asciilifeform: decimation: aha

02:49:52 decimation: mircea_popescu: in the us it is customary to label any policy whatsoever as 'reform'

02:51:05 mircea_popescu: my point exactly.

02:51:58 decimation: like the national assembly in revolutionary france, congress feels that they can make policy about anything whatsoever

02:52:26 *: asciilifeform would love to read a collection of all the u.s. federal laws that claim extraterritoriality.

02:52:34 mircea_popescu: ^

02:52:58 asciilifeform: i can remember a few - the one with the flag-less submarines, and the one forbidding any biped on planet 3 from working on nukes without u.s. blessing

02:52:59 mircea_popescu: that us libtards gave themselves and in their own mind some sort of major role in the world is novel.

02:53:05 decimation: the first one that comes to mind are the 'foreign banking' laws w.r.t. us citizens

02:53:18 asciilifeform: citizens - yes. i was thinking of other

02:53:18 mircea_popescu: for most of its history, the us knew better, an saw itself as a minor player.

02:53:39 asciilifeform: that is, there are actually laws on the books which specifically say 'anyone, anywhere, whether he even knows we exist'

02:54:22 decimation: another famous one is the law that bans illegal wood harvest anywhere in the world

02:54:44 decimation: the 'lacey act'

02:55:38 The20YearIRCloud: poor gibson guitars :(

02:55:48 decimation: yep

02:56:18 decimation: in the early constitution era it was thought that congress was limited to passing laws about things that were actually mentioned in their charter in the constitution

02:56:29 decimation: lincoln and then fdr removed that restriction

02:56:38 mircea_popescu: " If we could even get ourselves down to a Western European level of car dependence, we would cut road fatalities to a third of their present value and improve our quality of life in innumerable ways."

02:56:49 mircea_popescu: yah lol. how to become europe ? "insert toll roads"

02:56:52 asciilifeform: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2285

02:56:52 assbot: 18 U.S. Code § 2285 - Operation of submersible vessel or semi-submersible vessel without nationality | LII / Legal Information Institute

02:56:54 mircea_popescu: totally. i like thios reasoning.

02:56:55 asciilifeform: ^ submarines

02:57:11 mircea_popescu: maybe the author could be come a girl by selling lipstick.

02:57:27 decimation: mircea_popescu: usians hate the idea of paying for roads

02:57:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's hardly noteworthy. for as long as navigation was a thing, navigating without a banner meant being an outlaw.

02:58:03 asciilifeform: u.s. navy sub - also outlaw?

02:58:07 mircea_popescu: decimation point being, europe is europe because it's europe, not because some kansas kids decided to wear bedsheets once and poof.

02:58:13 decimation: yeah actually I agree with that law

02:58:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it goes without a banner, yes.

02:58:31 asciilifeform: banner underwater?

02:58:38 decimation: hehe

02:59:20 BingoBoingo: !Up cascadian_derper

02:59:23 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, but there's something lacking in the us - they can't seem to believe that they have their own culture and avoid trying to make one

02:59:27 mircea_popescu: well, "banner"

02:59:39 cascadian_derper: ah lovely someone's watching

02:59:41 mircea_popescu: decimation who has his own culture you mean ?

02:59:52 decimation: well, kansas for instance

03:00:00 mircea_popescu: i dun see it.

03:00:13 cascadian_derper: thanks for participating in my live fire, bb

03:00:24 mircea_popescu: kansas culture = "move to ny, for a better life" + "check out the corn!!1"

03:00:25 decimation: they actually do have a culture, it is just roundly rejected by every elite with a printing press

03:00:32 mircea_popescu: well ?

03:00:36 mircea_popescu: what is this then, folklore ?

03:00:45 mircea_popescu: !up Derp

03:01:02 mircea_popescu: the us may only have a folklore after 2276.

03:01:09 mircea_popescu: check back in 1/4 millenium.

03:01:45 decimation: yeah, it'll be viva la reconquista

03:02:11 asciilifeform: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/47a << mega-lol

03:02:11 assbot: 50 U.S. Code § 47a - Information concerning illegal introduction, manufacture, acquisition or export of special nuclear material or atomic weapons or conspiracies relating thereto; reward | LII / Legal Information Institute

03:03:01 decimation: I think that the low country "jante law" culture is one of the things that provides an impetus to the lack of us folklore/home culture

03:03:55 cascadian_derper: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=f8nwfQx1

03:03:56 notary: cascadian_derper: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

03:04:02 mircea_popescu: it's just too damned young.

03:04:25 decimation: yeah that's true

03:05:05 decimation: plus, the radical egalitarianism is like an acid that dissolves the nascent culture before it begins

03:05:21 ben_vulpes: nah just polishing off a bottle of champagne in the office

03:05:24 ben_vulpes: whoop

03:05:31 ben_vulpes: wrong channel, perdon

03:06:47 hanbot: wrong channel, perignon << ftfy

03:07:08 decimation: heh

03:07:14 mircea_popescu: decimation this is not true.

03:07:25 mircea_popescu: the russians had the mir for as long as the memory goes, and yet.

03:07:48 ben_vulpes: clever you, hanbot. it's cremant du jura though.

03:08:20 decimation: you mean the space station :)

03:09:16 mircea_popescu: nah, the mir, the village "corporation" of sorts.

03:10:17 ben_vulpes: what is scoopbot's actual uptime?

03:10:40 ben_vulpes: PeterL: do you need a hand with stabilizing that thing?

03:11:20 mircea_popescu: decimation it owned all the land, and allocated it. it owned the peasants, and regulated their life. basically think beehive with the queen unembodied.

03:11:21 PeterL: sorry, trying to fix it right now

03:13:04 decimation: so your point is that the lack of egalitarianism did not foster a culture?

03:13:06 ben_vulpes: PeterL: i'm not trying to make you cry, but mebbe offer suggestions how to keep the thing up

03:13:19 ben_vulpes: are you still running it in a screen session or whatever?

03:13:21 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

03:14:26 decimation: PeterL: does it reconnect?

03:15:04 PeterL: no, not yet, I'm gonna swith it to a different chan for a minute while I derp with it a bit

03:15:36 asciilifeform: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/2122

03:15:37 assbot: 42 U.S. Code § 2122 - Prohibitions governing atomic weapons | LII / Legal Information Institute

03:15:39 asciilifeform: ^ the nuke thing.

03:15:42 asciilifeform: finally found it.

03:15:53 asciilifeform: 'It shall be unlawful, except as provided in section 2121 of this title, for any person, inside or outside of the United States, to knowingly participate in the development of, manufacture, produce, transfer, acquire, receive, possess, import, export, or use, or possess and threaten to use, any atomic weapon.'

03:16:18 asciilifeform: just think, kurchatov or sakharov, could have sat in an american jail

03:16:23 asciilifeform: if somehow caught.

03:16:25 decimation: presumably 'person' means 'person to which us law applies'

03:16:29 asciilifeform: nope.

03:16:35 asciilifeform: person.

03:16:52 asciilifeform: normally they state 'u.s. subject' or similar.

03:16:58 decimation: asciilifeform: 'person' is an overloaded word in us law

03:17:02 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/Bn88rOZ << ahaha i remember fucking with solenoids

03:17:03 assbot: asciilifeform's mail - Imgur

03:17:43 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: damn did you hoover up the only copy?

03:17:55 asciilifeform: idk how many copies.

03:18:00 asciilifeform: ask mircea_popescu

03:18:14 ben_vulpes: well on 'amazon "book" services'

03:18:46 ben_vulpes: *** assbot (~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot) has changed mode for #bitcoin-assets to +v JorgePasada << where's my node, bitch

03:18:51 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.amazon.com//gp/offer-listing/B000MOLJGI/sr=/qid=/?condition=used&tag=bkfndr76-20

03:18:59 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell JorgePasada see above

03:18:59 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:20:10 ben_vulpes: mm gratzi asciilifeform

03:20:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12232 @ 0.00056379 = 6.8963 BTC [+]

03:20:27 ben_vulpes: holy shit mpoe clearing at 56k

03:20:37 ben_vulpes: market hates you mircea_popescu

03:20:48 ben_vulpes: clearly wagering on usg winning this round

03:21:19 decimation: I guess 'person' means whatever some court finds that it means, when they are presented with the question

03:21:54 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. but what is on the other? the miners' mystery forks? our gadget, that doesn't even load the blockchain? << consider the gadget a piece of art. as always, the miners determine everything.

03:24:03 Vexual: decimation: Personne physique

03:31:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 5821 @ 0.0012 = 6.9852 BTC

03:32:13 Vexual: ;;ticker

03:32:15 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 438.18, Best ask: 438.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 438.18, 24 hour volume: 45394.86406201, 24 hour low: 377.6, 24 hour high: 438.3, 24 hour vwap: 408.920744472

03:39:09 mircea_popescu: decimation> so your point is that the lack of egalitarianism did not foster a culture? << my point being that culture is strictly a matter of time. how people organise is irrelevant. which also means there's no shortcuts.

03:41:23 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 330/420 * 66

03:41:24 gribble: 51.8571428571

03:41:33 mircea_popescu: maybe it's scaling with the usg *gasp*

03:41:39 decimation: yet, us folk come from somewhere, where did that culture go?

03:42:01 mircea_popescu: iroquis also came from somewhere, but once they came, it was all new.

03:42:11 mircea_popescu: for that matter, the germans come from fucking central asia. so what of it.

03:42:46 mircea_popescu: the zulus managed to start over each century moving 100 miles.

03:42:59 Vexual: and then some

03:43:25 Vexual: those guys don't fuck around

03:43:41 decimation: "Zulu" was a good movie

03:43:43 decimation: !up Vexual

03:45:16 Vexual: Might give it a look, The tourist was watchable

03:45:22 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah that formula 'fits' - culture is derived in a convergence of circumstances + time

03:49:36 BingoBoingo: The geographic area occupied by present day Collinsville, Illinois had a population of ~35,000 600 years ago, and has a similar population today.

03:49:54 decimation: BingoBoingo: the 'mound culture'?

03:50:36 BingoBoingo: decimation: Yes "Mississippians" Seems smallpox probably got to them before the pale faces did.

03:53:15 BingoBoingo: The view from the big pile of dirt into Missouri is pretty sweet.

03:56:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23994 @ 0.00056201 = 13.4849 BTC [-] {2}

03:57:21 BingoBoingo: They even seemed to have had their own skunkworks program where they might have been trying to get to bronze a few millenia too late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_34

03:57:23 assbot: Mound 34 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

03:58:52 decimation: I guess kansas was kansas before kansas

03:59:49 BingoBoingo: Well, no. Kansas had those fucking barbarian nomads with their dogs

04:01:49 BingoBoingo: Meanwhile the Mississippians had suburbs and shit, some suburbs more populated than they are presently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Mound_and_Village_Site

04:01:51 assbot: Emerald Mound and Village Site - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

04:05:43 BingoBoingo: !up Mrstickball

04:05:48 BingoBoingo: !up railzand

04:05:56 BingoBoingo: !up phish

04:06:23 Vexual: people on the river are happy to give

04:10:07 BingoBoingo: !up rdekley

04:32:34 mircea_popescu: !up u00

04:34:32 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/ron-maimon-lubos-motl-and-other-internet-things-i-hear-of-today-for-the-very-first-time/#comment-109841 << a competitor emerges!

04:34:33 assbot: Ron Maimon, Luboš Motl and other Internet things I hear of today for the very first time pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

04:36:44 mircea_popescu: actually midden is pretty much the best approximation of culture in physical terms.

04:37:24 asciilifeform: even the laziest student of archaeology knows this.

04:38:40 mircea_popescu: well so that's what, 300 people ?

04:38:49 asciilifeform: lol

04:39:05 asciilifeform: 300 mil sovblok.

04:40:18 decimation: speaking of obvous to everybody, here's some tardation for amusement: http://www.isegoria.net/2014/11/alternative-scientific-history/

04:40:19 assbot: Alternative Scientific History « Isegoria

04:43:28 mircea_popescu: the feminist one is pretty good.

04:44:09 decimation: yeah surely these people are trolling

04:44:14 mircea_popescu: basically, dude imagines that a) he currently lives in a world where people actually give a shit what usians thing and b) this will survive time travel.

04:44:58 decimation: most of what is accepted as common knowledge in the us would have been rank retardation to the ancients

04:45:10 decimation: the romans would use lenses though

04:45:37 mircea_popescu: wait, caesar saves the republic ?!

04:45:40 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:45:44 decimation: lol yeah that too

04:46:59 mircea_popescu: "since the early 20th century, Earth?s mean surface temperature has increased by about 0.8?C." lmap

04:47:16 mircea_popescu: The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change indicated!!!!

04:47:19 decimation: as if anyone could state that with authority

04:47:28 mircea_popescu: srsly, this faux chosenpeopleism is hard to get out of huh

04:48:29 decimation: the us is soaked in it, and it is getting worse

04:48:34 mircea_popescu: basically "i am a worthless sack of dung. the proof of this is that if i got sent to any other circumstance i'd make a total fool of myself"

04:50:19 mircea_popescu: all these people whose survival strictly depends on a extreheheeemely unlikely arrangement imagine themselves like... you know, representatives of HUMANITY outright

04:50:35 dub: they represent the body of human science tho

04:50:46 mircea_popescu: hardly.

04:51:00 decimation: do they lack the ability to perceive the obvious or are they acting out despite themselves?

04:51:05 mircea_popescu: the body of human science isn't derp derping about "relativity" by name anymore than the body of bitcoin is derp derping about "bitcoin" by name.

04:51:09 mircea_popescu: there's nothing in a name.

04:51:27 dub: teh body of human science says global warming is a thing

04:51:34 mircea_popescu: decimation coelenterata. they just float around in the sea. not their fault some happened upon a vent, not their fault the vent will go out.

04:51:45 mircea_popescu: you can't possibly be still on that kicks ?!

04:52:25 dub: its fact, idk what you deniers are smoking

04:52:28 mircea_popescu: the "body of human science" understood as "the government employees paid to derp on a topic" enacted "slow moving schizophrenia" as a thing.

04:52:35 dub: its hilarious listening to it

04:52:52 mircea_popescu: and then they died by falling out of the strawberry tree.

04:53:28 decimation: I found a chocolate bush one day but it turned out to be rabbit turds

04:53:55 undata: decimation: how many bites in were you?

04:54:04 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2A4P8SA.txt )

04:54:04 mircea_popescu: !b 2

04:54:33 mircea_popescu: get a load of this... the qin envoy guy is using the example of a chinese table tennis player as highly achievementful women.

04:54:47 mircea_popescu: because the ancient chinese didn't know women can you know, tablestuffs.

04:55:09 nubbins`: do you even table

04:55:17 decimation: http://acrossdifficultcountry.blogspot.com/2014/11/no-word-back-yet.html

04:55:18 assbot: Across Difficult Country: No Word Back Yet

04:55:59 mircea_popescu: kinda unfair that he mentions oprah winfrey but not martha stewart lol.

04:58:06 decimation: when I was in Maui I found Oprah's Maui mansion

04:58:20 decimation: it overlooks the statue erected to the memory of sun yet san

04:58:45 mircea_popescu: "Robin Williams' suicide was triggered by a horrible disease called Lewy Body Dementia ... sources connected with his family tell TMZ."

04:58:47 mircea_popescu: i fucking knew it.

05:00:53 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/gILlv24

05:00:54 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

05:00:55 nubbins`: one color left

05:01:32 mircea_popescu: http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/kim-kardashian-paper-cover.jpg << did this happen ?

05:05:59 undata: mircea_popescu: http://www.papermag.com/2014/11/kim_kardashian.php seems like a thing

05:06:59 mircea_popescu: just my type o gal.

05:07:33 asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early

05:09:05 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah he discusses that in the other post: http://www.isegoria.net/2010/12/ideas-behind-their-time/

05:10:06 decimation: "By contrast, in Poul Anderson’s The Man Who Came Early, an American MP with an engineering degree finds that he can’t apply any of his high-tech knowledge in low-tech Viking Iceland. He destroys the blacksmith’s shop when he tries to use modern high-temperature methods, he suggests impractical ideas, like deep-keeled sailing ships, which you can’t pull ashore, and so on."

05:10:34 mircea_popescu: takes a whole of a lot more than "i cursorily looked through my textbook on sciences" to meaningfully impact the past.

05:10:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or present.

05:10:50 mircea_popescu: for one thing, you need to be conversant in their ideas.

05:10:53 mircea_popescu: right.

05:11:08 mircea_popescu: not different in any sense, but the past does offer the dubious benefit of unverifiability

05:11:23 mircea_popescu: which is exactly what all of dub's idiots masquerading as "human science" always pined for.

05:11:44 mircea_popescu: oh if only they could be spared the humiliation of failing in an irc chatroom, how great life'd be.

05:12:27 asciilifeform: the real psychiatric root here is that the idiots actually buy into the notion of the past being a 'kingdom of simpletons'

05:12:37 mircea_popescu: why wouldn't they ?

05:12:56 asciilifeform: a land of the blind, where the derp, with his magical enlightenment juice, is automagically one-eyed king.

05:12:58 mircea_popescu: they also buy into the theory of women, black people and so forth being a bunch of simpletons in need of special olympics

05:13:04 mircea_popescu: why not past people ?

05:13:10 mircea_popescu: and ukrainians ?

05:13:16 mircea_popescu: everyone's in dire need of democracy!

05:13:20 asciilifeform: the lie is implicit in the 'progress' idea

05:13:32 mircea_popescu: myeah.

05:13:51 mircea_popescu: how great it is tho, just think! to be the best person that ever was merely for having been born later !

05:14:23 mircea_popescu: no wonder the conservative "you're not in the wot, noob" approach conflicts.

05:14:47 decimation: reminds one of "Candide"

05:16:52 decimation: Voltaire attacks Leibniz for thinking too optimistically about human possibility, and then supports the elevation of the unwashed masses

05:17:39 asciilifeform: mr v did for liberasty what leibniz did for mathematics.

05:20:02 mircea_popescu: i dun see it.

05:21:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.000566 = 11.9143 BTC [+]

05:22:58 decimation: mircea_popescu: as a student of french history, how do you think the revolution could have been reversed?

05:23:25 decimation: my limited understanding is that much blame falls on Louis for being a dufus

05:23:27 mircea_popescu: uh. i dunno, but i suspect the revolution was a historical necessity.

05:23:40 mircea_popescu: well yeah. and his successor a worse one.

05:25:08 decimation: I suppose it was the ultimate outworking of enlightenment philosophy

05:25:44 mircea_popescu: here's a reduced version of the problem : england had a shitty king, that led to the empowering of a a bizarre sect. this is what happens when monarchy falters - secret societies.

05:26:02 mircea_popescu: the weakness of the crown allowed the personal union of the dutch and england, which created a shipping superpower

05:26:21 mircea_popescu: this ensured the failure of france as a going concern, because it couldn't keep up with the new megastate.

05:26:46 mircea_popescu: once france was going to fail, louis settled into a comfortable "apres moi, le deluge" and the people felt right about the same way germans felt around hitler's bunker.

05:26:52 mircea_popescu: they WERE going to try something.

05:27:05 mircea_popescu: the thing they tried was in all ways french : lots of fun, and it nearly got to moscow.

05:27:08 mircea_popescu: what more do you want ?

05:27:14 assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/16N8SSA.txt )

05:27:14 asciilifeform: !b 8

05:28:16 decimation: I suppose that's the result of the mob seizing power: awesome party, terrible hangover

05:28:26 mircea_popescu: d'oh.

05:28:40 asciilifeform: http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_2_urbanities-how_to_read.html << oldie

05:29:40 mircea_popescu: ;;google caragiale republica de la ploiesti

05:29:40 gribble: Republic of Ploiești - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ploie%C8%99ti; Boborul - Wikisource: http://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Boborul; Please take your pills. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2014/please-take-your-pills/

05:29:40 cazalla: ;;isitdown qntra.net

05:29:40 gribble: qntra.net is up

05:29:40 mircea_popescu: the guy that wrote the os romania still runs on, for almost two centuries now ? had a working model

05:29:40 cazalla: anyone else unable to access?

05:29:45 decimation: I cannot access

05:30:01 decimation: ;;isitdown fraudsters.com

05:30:03 gribble: fraudsters.com is up

05:30:25 mircea_popescu: odd.

05:30:44 mircea_popescu: i wonder how the heck this works.

05:31:01 decimation: is our ddosing friend at it again?

05:31:14 mircea_popescu: i dun see him

05:31:28 asciilifeform: 'Astolphe de Custine was brought up for a time by a faithful servant, living in penury with her in the only room of the Custine home that had not been looted and sealed off by Jacobin zealots and thieves.'

05:32:01 asciilifeform: quoted for just this. someone asked 'how could they undo french revolution.' how do you undo a catabolic collapse?

05:32:05 asciilifeform: can you unburn a sofa?

05:32:26 asciilifeform: where do we get unlooters, to unplunder a palace?

05:33:09 mircea_popescu: http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-09-27/when-ephemeralization-is-hard-to-tell-from-catabolic-collapse << about the same topic

05:34:09 mircea_popescu: "Thanks to technological change, over the past few decades the capital-intensiveness of emerging successor infrastructures has been collapsing faster than the existing infrastructure itself. The classic example, from Buckminster Fuller, is replacing a transoceanic cable system emdodying God only knows how many thousand tons of metal with a few dozen communications satellites weighing a few tons each."

05:34:09 mircea_popescu: conveniently forgetting to mention that the cable is resilient, whereas the satellites not so much, and moreover,

05:34:09 mircea_popescu: even more conveniently forgetting to mention the 100x more tons of metal, fuel and whatnot needed to make satellites.

05:34:09 decimation: asciilifeform: I guess if the king isn't a derp, he turns grapeshot upon the mob

05:34:09 mircea_popescu: not like you can use any old mine dredger.,

05:34:16 mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ?

05:34:29 decimation: right, the problem is that it's hopeless

05:34:32 mircea_popescu: so you get to still be king, people will refer to you as Roi Acier

05:34:33 mircea_popescu: and now ?

05:34:56 asciilifeform: king, as it was, sorta got off lightly - settled for mere beheading, no impalement, no boiling oil

05:35:03 decimation: I guess the simpler alternative is to take the mob and invade moscow with it

05:35:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform king died in his bed

05:35:09 mircea_popescu: among the tits of his concubine.

05:35:23 *: asciilifeform thinking of other one

05:35:24 decimation: his wife on the other hand..

05:35:40 mircea_popescu: oh, the blacksmith ?

05:35:42 mircea_popescu: what king.

05:35:44 asciilifeform: lol

05:37:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, unplunders there are. called craftsmen and artisans.

05:37:12 mircea_popescu: palaces can and have been unplundered.

05:37:30 asciilifeform: takes a while.

05:38:32 decimation: re: satellites << plus they occupy electromagnetic spectrum that could be put to otherwise productive use

05:38:51 asciilifeform: decimation: occupy spectrum << mostly line-of-sight, what occupy

05:39:52 decimation: lol line of sight: http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Galaxy-19-C.html

05:40:52 decimation: true, not the entire earth all at once

05:40:52 asciilifeform: decimation: line of sight. what don't you like about the picture ?

05:41:11 decimation: well, the point isn't really the interfering signal from the satellite as much as the fact that no one on the ground can use the same frequencies without potentially interfering with satellite receivers

05:41:57 asciilifeform: decimation: if this were true, anyone could take a 'predator' bomber home.

05:42:38 asciilifeform: pocket 'gps' receivers - yes, easily fooled

05:43:12 decimation: asciilifeform: who knows how the us military hardens their links against interference

05:43:28 asciilifeform: generally, by using a very directional horn.

05:43:36 asciilifeform: and by flying.

05:44:05 decimation: but I am assuming a world where e-m spectrum could be otherwise be allocated to other-than-friends-of-the-bezzle

05:44:32 asciilifeform: in post-bezzle radio, 'adaptive frequency hopping' or bust.

05:45:58 decimation: asciilifeform: I think you might be unimpressed with the reality of usg rpvs: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/May/Pages/PentagonEyesDealsWithSatelliteIndustryToFillDemandforDroneCommunications.aspx

05:50:12 asciilifeform: (one of the things which they did not - until, apparently, very recently - do - is use signed commands. hence one could in fact take the machine home, if using an appropriate antenna.)

05:53:33 decimation: asciilifeform: here's another one: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/uavs-drive-satcom-modernization/ "The reality, however, is the role of the lion’s share of UAVs is to provide data to soldiers within 50 miles of the aircraft using line-of-sight air-to-ground links,” Gardner wrote. “Today these links are predominantly analog FM links for standard definition video, but a change to sophisticated digital links is under

05:54:33 decimation: way, driven by a range of factors.""

05:54:43 asciilifeform: way to lump the bulldog and the rhinoceros into one animal.

05:54:58 asciilifeform: flying camera - one thing. remotely-flown bomber - another.

05:55:31 asciilifeform: incidentally, people misunderstand why the bomber is costly

05:55:38 asciilifeform: it is precisely because of the control apparatus.

05:55:40 asciilifeform: rather than the bombs

05:56:02 asciilifeform: hence also its weight, and the resulting expense of the airframe, engines, fuel.

05:56:09 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was confusing the two, I admit

05:56:29 decimation: the article is fairly silent w.r.t. the details of control links

05:56:47 asciilifeform: if a usefully-directional satellite receiver and associated gizmos could fit in pocket, camel convoys would be attacked using winged grenades on toy airplanes

05:57:15 asciilifeform: and even the simultaneously dumbest and wealthiest military bureaucracy in the world, would see this as an obvious thing.

05:57:37 decimation: this article was published in 2010 also

05:57:37 mircea_popescu: dude look at that, you can't find a pic of John McCain online that's not from like 1979

05:57:51 asciilifeform: !s gyro mcquack

05:57:52 assbot: 0 results for 'gyro mcquack' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=gyro+mcquack

05:58:09 asciilifeform: !s launchpad mcquack

05:58:10 assbot: 1 results for 'launchpad mcquack' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=launchpad+mcquack

05:58:12 asciilifeform: there.

05:59:20 decimation: ;;google uss forrestal mccain

05:59:20 gribble: 1967 USS Forrestal fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire; Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea - Truthdig: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081007_investigating_john_mccains_tragedy_at_sea; Rocket causes deadly fire on aircraft carrier — History.com This Day ...: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history (1 more message)

05:59:50 BingoBoingo: Ah, the references to Disney

06:00:13 BingoBoingo: 's Duck Period date Herr asciilifeform's arrival in Usia

06:00:22 asciilifeform: pre-date

06:00:28 asciilifeform: saw it in translation.

06:02:48 BingoBoingo: Ah

06:02:51 asciilifeform: http://i1.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/321.jpg << from linked article. the answer to 'how directional.'

06:03:51 BingoBoingo: So marginally more directional than a satellite TV reciever.

06:04:27 decimation: asciilifeform: sure, the plane's dish is directional - my original point is that the satellite's might not be

06:04:40 decimation: especially if it is a 'commercial' satellite

06:10:02 BingoBoingo: http://amblesideanimalhospital.com/blog/moose-by-products-dr-google-january/ << "The People"

06:10:03 assbot: Dr. Google & Moose by-products | Ambleside Animal Hospital

06:12:37 mats_cd03: good log today mates

06:14:18 asciilifeform: !up Vexual

06:15:34 Vexual: i forgot, everythings on lyngsat

06:17:02 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

06:17:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8737 @ 0.00056765 = 4.9596 BTC [+]

06:17:10 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 450.0, vol: 46736.22148626 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 447.14, vol: 28104.18399 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 457.29, vol: 132122.08627802 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 476.579904, vol: 454541.40410000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 435.18045, vol: 230.55639073 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 435.575, vol: 362.97455385 | Volume-weighted last average: 469.567824543

06:17:44 BingoBoingo: The Chinese... enthusiastic

06:18:37 mircea_popescu: o noes, such wow, what now.

06:22:15 BingoBoingo: Well, new meme clogging Derpistan seems to be "Forget the moon, we caught a comet"

06:23:22 Vexual: also gentlemen, which seens to be some olf cat picture from bitcointalk by way of reddit

06:25:59 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/askfm-laid-bare-or-whats-half-a-million-uniques-to-you/

06:25:59 assbot: Ask.fm laid bare, or what’s half a million uniques to you ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

06:26:02 mircea_popescu: since no scoopsybot.

06:27:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 10000 @ 0.0012 = 12 BTC

06:29:08 Vexual: orb reports it's stright outta london

06:30:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48130 @ 0.00056205 = 27.0515 BTC [-]

06:30:18 Vexual: dat meme, not ask fm

06:30:50 BingoBoingo: ;;google straight out of compton

06:30:50 gribble: Straight Outta Compton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_Outta_Compton; Straight Outta Compton (2015) - IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1398426/; NWA - Straight Outta Compton (1988) on Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/68396301

06:31:17 Vexual: ;;google straight outta locash

06:31:18 gribble: CB4-Straight outta Locash - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbzQRft7zGA; CB4 (1993) Straight Outta Locash - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69JBRcDOt-k; CB4 Straight Outta Locash (Video Edit) by Bob Garcia - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDlXLXmX2M

06:31:53 BingoBoingo: Vexual: When are you starting a blog that blogs other blogs rinsed through MP's Google Translate Vexualator?

06:32:06 Vexual: tsin da werks

06:33:35 mircea_popescu: lol

06:33:43 mircea_popescu: not a bnad idea, that.

06:34:20 Vexual: lol

06:36:14 BingoBoingo: FU FEDS!!!!! http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/how-prepaid-cards-work-and-why-feds-are-watching/article_fec9064d-25d2-5642-87d1-0a133ca3b629.html

06:36:15 assbot: How prepaid cards work and why Feds are watching : News

06:41:06 mircea_popescu: !up bitcoin-market09

06:41:22 mircea_popescu: http://cdn.papermag.com/uploaded_images/KKface(rgb)watermark.jpg << yeah srsly, thanks undata

06:41:31 mircea_popescu: easily the best looking chick alive.

06:43:49 mircea_popescu: http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Thomaston-Man-Arrested-After-Stabbing-Watermelon-Cops-267183461.html

06:43:50 assbot: Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut

06:44:16 Vexual: theres a song about who fucker her first

06:44:24 mircea_popescu: to think, not even 200 years ago the same woman could be put in stocks if the husband told police she stabbed the same watermelon in a slothful or wanton manner.

06:48:05 punkman: "Glee actress Naya Rivera allegedly commented on Kardashian’s Instagram, “I normally don’t… but you’re someone’s mother.”"

06:48:37 punkman: I think she looks better now than before she had a kid

06:49:03 mircea_popescu: she looks her best for sure.

06:49:21 mircea_popescu: armenian chicks. no fucking wonder the turks had an in for 'em.

06:49:44 BingoBoingo: Sabines 2.0

06:49:49 punkman: did you see the original champagne photo, https://31.media.tumblr.com/decad7a5fb9715c1508942f7e12209f8/tumblr_newq2vmrOB1r106o0o1_500.jpg

06:49:54 punkman: same photographer

06:50:24 mircea_popescu: anyway, she's doing all the stuff jolie thought herself too good for.

06:50:39 mircea_popescu: in a decade, kim will be remembered and who was brangelina again ?

06:51:08 mircea_popescu: i hadn't. but the original sucks by comparison.

06:51:49 mircea_popescu: how does he get the bubbly flow btw ? what's the hydrodynamics experts think ?

06:52:20 punkman: trying to imagine how many bottles of champagne he's wasted trying

06:53:04 mircea_popescu: no way that's a chance event.

06:53:31 punkman: yeah photographer guy probably has it figured out by now

06:53:32 mircea_popescu: besides, im sure you can sell "champagne that was spilled on kim kardashian as part of trying to get the booty shot" fgor more trhan it cost originally.

06:55:15 mircea_popescu: As of May 2014, Kardashian is estimated to be worth $45 million.

06:55:29 mircea_popescu: dude that sucks. the watsapp faggots are worth 20bn and this chick 40mn ? get outta town.

06:55:54 punkman: does she have a clothing label yet?

06:56:07 punkman: though ass champagne might be a good business

06:56:16 mircea_popescu: she has 500 shitty perfumes, diets, underwears the works

06:56:35 mircea_popescu: they should prolly get her to front paleo

06:57:05 mircea_popescu: i think she's exactly the sort of woman the paleo guy jacks off to.

07:00:43 punkman: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/11/12/china_us_climate_deal_enthusiasm_gap

07:00:44 assbot: Why Is Beijing Downplaying the Supposedly Huge Climate Change Deal?

07:02:28 mircea_popescu: chinese bureaucrats got dumped a spoiled western brat.

07:02:35 mircea_popescu: they were polite, and thankfully now he left.

07:02:53 punkman: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/11/10/putin_hits_on_china__first_lady_apec_censors_go_wild

07:02:54 assbot: Putin Hits on China's First Lady, Censors Go Wild

07:03:26 mircea_popescu: lol nowai

07:03:53 mircea_popescu: well she looks like she's enjoying it...

08:20:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14017 @ 0.00056029 = 7.8536 BTC [-] {2}

08:40:57 notary: Confirmed bundle 1MroFdni with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1MroFdniyCaRWZm2TLDZDWGzrYZ6NnC9rr

09:13:12 thestringpuller: ;;isup qntra.net

09:13:14 gribble: qntra.net is up

09:13:46 thestringpuller: lies

09:41:06 davout: ;;seen pankkake

09:41:06 gribble: pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, and 11 seconds ago: <pankkake> here is 0.000195.

09:42:23 thestringpuller: wassup davout

09:42:54 davout: right now, mostly being hungry

09:43:00 davout: :-)

09:43:25 davout: wishing i wasn't in paris' blind spot, where the closest boulangerie is 15 minutes walk

09:44:42 thestringpuller: lol. the chick fil a on campus is the slowest one in the state. about 15 minutes being in line ;)

09:45:52 davout: my feels -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9EBhaULToU&noredirect=1

09:45:53 assbot: You could flash-fry a buffalo in 40 seconds - YouTube

09:53:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00055772 = 13.9988 BTC [-]

10:02:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00055 = 5.5 BTC [-]

11:12:25 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2UPVevCAAEWxJD.jpg

11:13:14 punkman: http://qz.com/295370/how-alibaba-is-using-bra-sizes-to-predict-online-shopping-habits/

11:13:15 assbot: How Alibaba is using bra sizes to predict online shopping habits – Quartz

11:13:34 punkman: "Earlier this summer, a group of data crunchers looking at underwear sales at Alibaba came across a curious trend: women who bought larger bra sizes also tended to spend more"

11:13:46 punkman: big tits, more money

11:59:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00036402 = 1.3833 BTC [-]

12:33:29 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/9N8ajak

12:34:29 nubbins`: this ad

12:34:29 nubbins`: elelel

12:55:49 thestringpuller: nubbins`: i like the one where the baby is buying encyclopedias on the ipad and it triggers all these events.

12:56:28 nubbins`: i like the one where i ordered light bulbs ten weeks ago and they're finally in

12:56:34 nubbins`: bbl driving to industrial zone

13:09:16 Adlai: i don't know whether to be pumped at the rally while i was gone or fucking pissed that scalpl crashed right before it began

13:09:23 Adlai: mostly FUCKING PISSED

13:09:34 thestringpuller: nubbins`: ten weeeks for light bulbs?

13:09:49 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

13:09:49 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00061882 / 0.00064749 (1568022 shares, 970.33 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00062305 / 0.0007299 (5073500 shares, 3,161.05 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00072108 / 0.00081111 (22420918 shares, 16,167.33 BTC)

13:11:42 nubbins`: what's scalpl

13:11:45 nubbins`: thestringpuller RIGHT?!

13:12:57 Adlai: nubbins`: my thingy

13:13:04 Adlai: !s scalpl

13:13:05 assbot: 24 results for 'scalpl' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=scalpl

13:13:39 nubbins`: o

13:17:00 Adlai: crashed in between a sell and a buy, so i sat through this rally in fiat >_<

13:17:04 nubbins`: asciilifeform as i do not wish to hold your book funds indefinitely, plz to provide return address

13:21:56 jurov: hi Adlai, you wanted to post a patch to btc-dev?

13:22:03 Adlai: yes

13:22:04 jurov: can you resend?

13:22:58 Adlai: sent

13:24:45 Adlai: ugh and the fucking post office closes at ungodly early hours

13:24:45 jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "Adlai Chandrasekhar <adlai.chandrasekhar@gmail.com>"..iirc i sent you some instructions what to fix, did you get anything form gribble?

13:25:11 Adlai: let me check my logs

13:25:25 Adlai: (nothing from gribble though, but i did have a highlight that overflowed scrollback)

13:26:55 jurov: can't find it, seems my memory fails me, sry

13:27:03 Adlai: oh, it's failing because of newline failness

13:27:11 Adlai: you'd think that in the twenty first century...

13:28:12 jurov: yes, pls resend the text as attachment and leave the body empty

13:28:41 Adlai: please explain this as though i am a retarted monkey

13:28:52 Adlai: plain text attachment? any specific filename/extension/encoding/etc?

13:29:04 jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev << specified in second bullet

13:29:42 jurov: i guess everyone will utterly hate this :(

13:30:08 Adlai: "will"

13:30:27 jurov: o, already does ? D:

13:32:15 Adlai: !up devthedev

13:32:25 jurov: you're welcome to send the patch itself, as described there, too

13:32:34 Adlai: there's no patch, just an announcement about the github repo

13:32:54 Adlai: sending patches by mail is so 90s

13:33:03 jurov: but that's buggy, too. yest it ate newline in the patch file and then proclaimed "sig invalid, wont publish"

13:33:17 Adlai: anyways i must shower immediately before i die of stench

13:33:31 jurov: and made our key contributor, asciilifeform, utterl annoyed :(

13:34:07 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-11-2014#915632

13:34:07 assbot: Logged on 09-11-2014 09:54:46; Adlai: ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW

13:34:54 jurov: your key is there, gpgp knows your name, but message was damamged in transit

13:35:06 jurov: kbd fail

13:36:16 jurov: hmmm, i can maybe provide web submission form that will have better chance to pass gpg stuff undamaged and can provide instant feedback

13:36:36 mircea_popescu: jurov web form is a good idea i'd say.

13:36:44 jurov: but when i come around to do it.. dunno :(

13:37:05 mircea_popescu: all it takes is five lines of html

13:38:18 jurov: lol

13:39:01 jurov: if you meant a form with action="mailto:btc-dev@..." that wouldn't help anything

13:39:54 mircea_popescu: lol well no

13:40:02 mircea_popescu: but presumably the email goes into a script somewhere no ?

13:40:19 jurov: yes, it needs to be wired yo that script

13:40:47 mircea_popescu: whoa look at that, under 50!

13:40:59 mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe

13:40:59 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00061882 / 0.00064749 (1568022 shares, 970.33 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00062249 / 0.0007299 (5046550 shares, 3,141.44 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00072098 / 0.00081111 (22294004 shares, 16,073.74 BTC)

13:41:01 jurov: and mailman expects some headers to be present such as date, message id and whatnot

13:41:51 mircea_popescu: $SERVER or w/e php used

13:42:57 jurov: lol it's in py

13:43:13 jurov: and if it would be 5 lines, someone'd already done it

13:43:21 nubbins`: punkman let's put a section on the deeds website for deed verification utils

13:43:38 nubbins`: get a standard figured out and implement it in a few different languages

13:44:03 mircea_popescu: this is also not a bad idea

13:44:34 *: punkman is furiously trying to undelete output of 12hour processing job

13:45:13 Adlai: mircea_popescu: under 50 what?

13:45:22 nubbins`: !s deed utils

13:45:23 assbot: 3 results for 'deed utils' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=deed+utils

13:45:31 mircea_popescu: Adlai mpoe.

13:45:39 mircea_popescu: 50k satoshi.

13:45:42 Adlai: oh

13:45:45 nubbins`: mine's in node.js, could use some cleaning up. punkman's is in... py?

13:46:09 mircea_popescu: punkman they dun have backups where you live ?

13:47:06 punkman: mircea_popescu: was first run, fat-fingered some sql

13:47:20 mircea_popescu: now that sucks.

13:47:42 nubbins`: ^

13:48:03 mircea_popescu: the other response of course is, "yeah, i have self-replicating backups, i just watched the deletion propagate across the whole cluster."

13:48:11 punkman: heh

13:48:13 mircea_popescu: "it works fine"

13:49:07 mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe the soution to jurov's problems is merging with the deed system ?

13:49:13 mircea_popescu: just process updates that are deedified ?

13:49:37 punkman: I can implement detached sigs and binary deeds

13:49:49 mircea_popescu: no, you can't. that's the fucking idea.

13:49:57 mircea_popescu: no binary patches, no detached patches.

13:50:01 mircea_popescu: can a project live liek that ?

13:50:03 jurov: punkman or, since you have the form put, once verified you can just send email in

13:50:39 jurov: lol but he doesn't have the form either..just uses pastebin, no?

13:50:45 mircea_popescu: jurov yup.

13:51:04 mircea_popescu: cuz of the bot.

13:51:59 jurov: punkman, you can send the deeds anyway, we can have dedicated mailing list for them

13:52:18 punkman: max deed size is 32kb now

13:52:36 thestringpuller: ;;google site:fraudsters.com markov chains conversation

13:52:36 gribble: Come see me clutching at straws pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea ...: http://fraudsters.com/2014/come-see-me-clutching-at-straws/

13:53:21 jurov: no i'll have to actually do it, i am not in such a pit as stan and can push jobs around

13:53:23 mircea_popescu: jurov get the deeds firehose, process them into a mailing list by criteria ? this is interesting.

13:53:50 mircea_popescu: ianac, but can a project survive on 32kb text only patches ?

13:53:58 jurov: dunno . guess anyone who wants will subscribe and filter themselves

13:54:13 jurov: nooo, i dont' want to shove it through deedbot

13:54:22 mircea_popescu: aok

13:54:24 punkman: yeah you can send them compressed too, so I suppose you could send quite big patches as it is

13:54:50 jurov: that means sumbitting zipfiles ad seeds?

13:54:53 mircea_popescu: punkman this dovetails with asciilifeform's "fit in head" ideas.

13:54:56 jurov: *as deeds

13:55:24 jurov: do you really wants to mess aith such? doing html form is easier

13:55:28 mircea_popescu: ^

13:55:30 mircea_popescu: agreed.

13:55:43 mircea_popescu: jurov mostly exploring teh possibilities i think. some of which make one recoil in horror.

13:56:35 jurov: on that note, if asciilifeform still did not get the emails, i'm gonna send him the diests by snail mail

13:56:42 jurov: *digests

13:57:18 mircea_popescu: lol

13:58:21 jurov: * punkman is furiously trying to undelete << lol and i have multi-day multi-machine job that invokes OOM killer every coupla hours. i can live with it.

13:58:42 Adlai: ... why are we still talking about how to manage a project through patches-by-mail?

13:59:01 mircea_popescu: Adlai because we're upset with the system.

13:59:10 Adlai: if you're married to patches, at least use darcs

13:59:27 jurov: Adlai because the goal is transparent verification of all contributions

13:59:42 jurov: if you can explain ti asciilifeform how to use dracs tho achieve this

14:00:18 punkman: maybe a gpg plugin for gitorious or gitlab

14:00:50 jurov: so? punkman, make that plugin. just some 5 lines, no?

14:00:57 punkman: probably

14:01:02 mircea_popescu: punkman one that isn't retarded pretty much reduces to "reimplement pgp" task we're loath to start.

14:01:31 mircea_popescu: jurov you snarky boy!

14:01:47 jurov: in short a system where it can be proven beyond doubt and without third-party service "X posted it, Y,Z signed it, A made a release"

14:01:57 Adlai: btw, this is quite relevant and maybe even a better starting point than 0.5.3: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/tree/master/include/ccoin

14:01:58 assbot: picocoin/include/ccoin at master · jgarzik/picocoin · GitHub

14:02:11 Adlai: libccoin is a valgrind clean bitcoin node, written in C

14:02:13 mircea_popescu: Adlai how do you figure ?

14:02:29 mircea_popescu: i think you might be confused as to what's happening here.

14:02:51 Adlai: mircea_popescu: how do i figure using darcs superior to patches-by-mail, or working off libccoin superior to working off 0.5.3?

14:02:54 punkman: speaking of reimplementing things: https://github.com/singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python << a python port of a php implementation of openpgp standard

14:02:54 assbot: singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python · GitHub

14:02:55 mircea_popescu: the idea is not an alternative, non braindamaged bitcoin reimplementation. the idea is confiscating the canonical bitcoin implementation from the current set of monkeys.

14:03:01 mircea_popescu: quite distinct, these.

14:03:27 Adlai: either goal can be accomplished from either starting point

14:03:36 mircea_popescu: you're not in a position to make that judgement.

14:03:38 jurov: Adlai how do you do with darcs the "beyond doubt" stuff ?

14:03:46 jurov: ls explain

14:03:48 jurov: pls

14:04:05 Adlai: mircea_popescu: i make no judgements, just throwing out ideas

14:04:14 mircea_popescu: <Adlai> either goal can be accomplished from either starting point << that is a judgement.

14:04:21 Adlai: lolok

14:04:40 jurov: throwin out is easy. im asking you to throw in how darcs fullfills it

14:04:59 mircea_popescu: anyway, i have nfi about coding workflow from the pov of the workflower, however, darcs seems that much math grad wankathon.

14:05:11 Adlai: i'll shut up and shower because evidently i've been too far outside the loop to have meaningful input to these high and mighty goingons

14:05:33 mircea_popescu: no, rather, YOU are too high and mighty to have meaningful input.

14:05:35 jurov: you don't have meaningfuil answer to my qs?

14:05:57 mircea_popescu: i get it, "patches by mail" = bad because that's how they did it before women were liberated or some shit. nevertheless. how is the spiffy work for our purpose ?

14:05:58 Adlai: darcs is more organized than patches-over-mail, i've not used it enough to know whether it has any builtin support for patch signing

14:06:12 mircea_popescu: well this exposes the problem eh.

14:06:18 Adlai: however darcs is just a slight layer over patches

14:06:36 mircea_popescu: no but look at the process! you heard about something, thought it was cool and now want to use it on that basis ?

14:06:44 mircea_popescu: this is not how anything is supposed to fucking work.

14:06:57 Adlai: i'll just drop a nice photo here and go shower

14:07:08 mats_cd03: lol.

14:07:27 jurov: look, when we'll have 100 patches then we can talk how to get "better organized"

14:07:40 mircea_popescu: if this turns into another "you're mean and a cult because systemd" thing i swear...

14:09:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80900 @ 0.00046419 = 37.553 BTC [+] {2}

14:09:24 *: Adlai said no such thing

14:09:28 thestringpuller: MPOE being shorted has increased volume 2 fold.

14:09:32 *: mircea_popescu only now sees punkman link. jesus. does that even hash ?

14:09:39 Adlai: just, that i'm not in a mental state to conduct any sort of serious discussion right now

14:09:46 mircea_popescu: Adlai dun sweat it.

14:10:15 Adlai: if only this imgur thingy would get its shit together

14:10:37 Adlai: https://i.imgur.com/hzTWHwt.jpg

14:10:38 mircea_popescu: use instagram, it's what the best butt online uses!

14:11:02 thestringpuller: kim kardashian's but isn't real

14:11:06 thestringpuller: butt*

14:11:08 punkman: Adlai: are you coding in the trenches now?

14:11:16 mircea_popescu: lol is that a tank being decomissioned ?

14:11:25 Adlai: no, i spent my time in the trenches edumacatin the trenchgoers about bitcoin

14:11:28 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller how do you mean it's not real yo.

14:11:40 Adlai: they were actually quite fascinated by it, and a surprising number had never ever heard of it

14:12:03 mircea_popescu: i mean pretty fucking unreal, i grant. yet...

14:12:08 mircea_popescu: Adlai wait what trenches ?

14:12:50 Adlai: metaphorical ones

14:13:15 Adlai: but the metaphor isn't too far from reality

14:13:40 *: Adlai just got back from a week in reserve dooty as a signals technician in an artillery thingy

14:13:49 Adlai: whence the photo

14:14:17 Adlai: shower time!

14:14:58 jurov: ha, military. now i see where the "musta organize" comes from ;)

14:15:18 mircea_popescu: militarize all teh thangs!

14:16:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25327 @ 0.00046234 = 11.7097 BTC [-]

14:16:28 Adlai: well there's a big difference between military hierarchy and structured decentralization, but have your laffs while i have my baffs

14:17:36 Adlai: and for the record, i got kicked out of officer school for being "unfit for military command", so i'm not exactly the most militarized person...

14:17:44 mircea_popescu: actually afaik the us army has been trying to do away with 1800s french military style hierarchy in favour of something more akin to the latter.

14:18:14 Adlai: maybe they can start with not having mercenaries salute 20yo shitstains fresh out of west poopt

14:18:38 mircea_popescu: if they do that, they'll have to actually pay idiots to go to west point

14:18:41 mircea_popescu: rather than charge them.

14:28:38 assbot: Bagels7 +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

14:29:19 Adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

14:29:20 assbot: Mars Attacks Why Can't We All Just Get Along YouTube - YouTube

14:30:21 mircea_popescu: !up bagels7

14:31:19 bagels7: Oh hey, I was just wondering how it would be nice to not hear about kim's ass once in a while, perhaps a whole day even

14:31:57 Adlai: last time i heard irl about kim was actually back in my mandatory service

14:32:11 Adlai: (now i have to differentiate between stories from mandatory and reserve... wonderful)

14:32:14 mircea_popescu: bagels7 you'd be wondering how it'd be nice ?

14:32:27 mircea_popescu: Adlai you don't actually have to...

14:32:50 Adlai: some guy was talking about her instagram account and he said that she uploads pictures of her dog, and her furniture, and whatnot

14:32:53 bagels7: yeah to not see a huge ass first thing in the morning

14:33:01 Adlai: and he was genuinely trying to convince people that he doesn't follow her just because of dat ass

14:33:22 mircea_popescu: bagels7 don't take this the wrong way, because it's not actually going where it may seem, butt : are you a girl ?

14:33:23 Adlai: mircea_popescu: this is true

14:33:44 bagels7: oh you saw dpb's comment or twitter I'll guess

14:34:00 mircea_popescu: actually no, i dun read twitter. but i just added you know, two an' two together.

14:34:03 Adlai: ugh this week resurrected my mysoginism

14:34:17 bagels7: oh yes im so girly im ashamed

14:34:29 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2EGRBYF.txt )

14:34:29 thestringpuller: !b 1

14:34:43 mircea_popescu: anyway : boys like highly sexed girls. it's a thing. it doesn't actually say anything about you.

14:34:56 bagels7: do you like highly sexed

14:34:58 Adlai: there is nothing girly about not liking ass, girls are allowed to like manass

14:35:03 mircea_popescu: yes.

14:35:22 mircea_popescu: Adlai girls don't tend to like highly sexed girls because they're disruptive.

14:35:44 Adlai: what's disruptive about the "oldest profession"?

14:35:50 bagels7: Oh well I am an escort so I kind of have to shave my legs and do make up and all that

14:36:00 Adlai: (this is a false cliche btw... the oldest profession, imo, is "boss")

14:36:03 mircea_popescu: Adlai exactly that.

14:36:12 mircea_popescu: bagels7 oh you are ? where do you work ?

14:36:30 mircea_popescu: Adlai and boss is not a profession.

14:36:32 bagels7: Montreal, quebec, canada

14:36:51 mircea_popescu: ;;rate bagels7 1 says she's an escort in montreal. if you ever visit, lemme know how it went.

14:36:53 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user bagels7 has been recorded.

14:37:30 Adlai: on that note, i'm gonna wash the smell of diesel sweat and boot polish out of my hair

14:37:44 mircea_popescu: you're just going to jack off

14:37:59 Adlai: "just"

14:39:29 danielpbarron: ;;rated bagels7

14:39:30 gribble: You rated user bagels7 on Tue Nov 11 06:40:19 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: boy who pretends to be a girl; http://twitter.com/SakuraSoph.

14:40:12 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron dja see teh weewee in question ?

14:40:23 bagels7: nope ^

14:41:30 mircea_popescu: bagels7 you got a page up somewhere or how does the escort business even work these days ? dja advertise ?

14:41:44 bagels7: someone does it for me

14:42:09 xanthyos: danielpbarron: is it your job to out people?

14:42:25 *: danielpbarron shrugs

14:42:42 bagels7: They do newspapers which are getting more and more expensive since all the cheap advertising ones get bought, and there is a website somewhere

14:43:21 mircea_popescu: yeah i heard this is the latest business model, "make cheap advertising paper to drive up numbers, wait for buyout offers". apparently it can be cycled in 2-3 years.

14:43:49 mircea_popescu: some people that used to do "refurbishing" places back in the bubble moved on to this.

14:44:13 mircea_popescu: xanthyos everyone's job is to out people!

14:47:54 xanthyos: it's unrelated to trust though, and the insinuation of "boy pretends to be girl" is that bagels7 is dishonest

14:48:23 xanthyos: also historically once the transgender cat is out of the bag that's all everyone wants to talk about

14:48:24 danielpbarron: dishonest with himself

14:48:47 xanthyos: i'm still so jittery from last night

14:48:55 mircea_popescu: well, at least we moved on from kim's butt.

14:50:21 xanthyos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kWaKhrpa28

14:50:21 assbot: Real Time with Bill Maher: Generation Ass (HBO) - YouTube

14:51:00 bagels7: What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern

14:54:11 xanthyos: ooh btc fell back slightly. brb gonna call bank see if those coinbase deposits went in

14:54:34 xanthyos: i really really really hope that some sort of bad thing doesn't happen now that my checking account is tied to this...

14:54:53 *: xanthyos words not have smooth talk

14:55:06 xanthyos: brain damage need christ

14:55:28 xanthyos: i need danielpbarron to talk for me like aaron spoke for moses

14:55:55 thestringpuller: coinbase is already reporting you.

14:56:09 thestringpuller: just link to account you don't care gets seized.

14:56:46 xanthyos: so if i buy off coinbase should i not send to my existing wallet which right now is totally anon

14:58:38 thestringpuller: Intermediary addresses is good practice for plausible deniability.

14:59:04 xanthyos: is it a crime to buy bitcoin?

14:59:08 xanthyos: or sell

14:59:27 thestringpuller: !s from:asciilifeform benjies otc

14:59:28 assbot: 1 results for 'from:asciilifeform benjies otc' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+benjies+otc

14:59:55 xanthyos: i don't feel i should hvae to deny anything

15:00:11 xanthyos: if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer!

15:00:23 xanthyos: i'm allowed to fluctuate my balance as much as i want

15:00:43 thestringpuller: all while they are being raped with USG cock in their mouth

15:00:48 xanthyos: the fact that it's taking 2+ days for me to even see these mcirodeposits speaks to the obsolescence of banks

15:00:51 xanthyos: btc went up 60/ea since

15:01:02 xanthyos: !up bagels7

15:02:00 thestringpuller: i'm probably going to revert to cash only OTC. at least I know there is some resistance to my coincs going into Buterin's Waterfall.

15:02:45 danielpbarron: i made that switch a while ago

15:02:45 thestringpuller: regulators gonna regulate like warren g and nate d to the double g

15:02:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 900 @ 0.0012 = 1.08 BTC

15:03:29 TomServo: What do you guys figure is a reasonable markup for cash trades?

15:03:32 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: how difficult is it to set up "deals"?

15:04:03 danielpbarron: kinda hard to find them; not so hard to do them

15:04:11 mircea_popescu: <bagels7> What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern << that didn't parse. say wut ?

15:04:17 danielpbarron: more work than coinbase obviously

15:04:51 thestringpuller: coinbase is a lot of work. I have to keep my accounts separate and can't have money fluctuate too high or low without suspcicious phone calls.

15:05:00 danielpbarron: usually have to pay higher fees too

15:05:07 mircea_popescu: <xanthyos> if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer! << lmao this works, yeah.

15:05:13 mircea_popescu: figure it out, the only customer of the bank is the govt.

15:05:20 mircea_popescu: you're just getting in the way.

15:06:26 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell scoopbot http://fraudsters.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/

15:06:26 assbot: Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

15:06:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:14:17 xanthyos: woop 24 cents and 10 cents microdeposits went thru, activating coinbase

15:14:27 xanthyos: no more buying btc through stander

15:14:55 xanthyos: stander is the guy that danielpbarron and RetroUpriser and i have bought btc through for a while

15:17:39 mircea_popescu: !up eightyeight

15:18:36 xanthyos: Amount Received

15:18:37 xanthyos: 0.002637 BTC

15:18:37 xanthyos: From Avatar Coinbase

15:18:56 mircea_popescu: what's even the point of buying fractions of bitcents ?

15:20:20 xanthyos: it was free for signing up

15:20:25 xanthyos: now i see it takes 4 days for them to send btc

15:20:36 xanthyos: twice as long as a bank

15:20:51 mircea_popescu: ah

15:23:05 bagels7: <+mircea_popescu>I'm so poor I can't afford your articles yet

15:23:21 mircea_popescu: lol gotta work more.

15:23:57 xanthyos: mircea_popescu: is 440 a good buy price now?

15:24:39 bagels7: Well where could I work without a degree?

15:25:19 xanthyos: here!

15:25:22 mircea_popescu: xanthyos the only thing i've said bout price is http://fraudsters.com/2014/people-us-dollars-are-not-worth-a-fifth-of-a-bitcent-stop-selling/

15:25:22 assbot: People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

15:26:24 bagels7: I've been abused in every single job I had except my latest

15:27:21 xanthyos: use the wot to set up your own network of unabusive clientele

15:34:01 xanthyos: wow coinbase is WAY cheaper than stander

15:34:08 xanthyos: i bought .2!

15:34:10 xanthyos: i'm a real man now

15:35:05 xanthyos: bagels7: did you bust out on seals yet?

15:36:35 TomServo: bagels7: /msg assbot !up

15:36:56 xanthyos: ;;gettrust bagels7

15:36:57 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user bagels7: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xanthyos&dest=bagels7 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bagels7 | Rated since: Tue Nov 11 00:46:41 2014

15:37:00 mircea_popescu: punkman: big tits, more money << i can see it.

15:37:06 mircea_popescu: !up cryptomaniac

15:37:17 xanthyos: why is bagels7 being devoiced with l2 assbot?

15:37:26 mircea_popescu: she never voiced herself.

15:37:38 mircea_popescu: ;;ident bagels7

15:37:39 gribble: Nick 'bagels7', with hostmask 'bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca', is identified as user 'Bagels7', with GPG key id 82C85EDC160BB29F, key fingerprint ACE4936BDD6EBB8338F5282E82C85EDC160BB29F, and bitcoin address 16SvyfnNumVGr8qp1xRgupKpdEjWtAC5rN

15:37:47 mircea_popescu: just pm assbot !up yo.

15:37:47 xanthyos: nice pronoun mp

15:37:58 mircea_popescu: hm ?

15:38:03 xanthyos: she

15:38:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44963 @ 0.00046111 = 20.7329 BTC [-] {2}

15:39:07 xanthyos: ooh

15:39:47 mircea_popescu: "Besides the possible reasons for the trend? namely that younger women with less purchasing power may be the ones buying smaller-sized bras"

15:39:51 mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha

15:40:00 mircea_popescu: yeah, totally, young women have less purchasing power than older women.

15:40:04 mircea_popescu: because this is imaginaryworld.

15:40:36 mircea_popescu: Singles Day?the annual Nov 11 online shopping frenzy in which Alibaba saw as many as 2.85 million transactions a minute at its peak, and a total of $9.3 billion in sales

15:40:39 xanthyos: so children with underdeveloped breasts now shop for themselves?

15:40:56 xanthyos: their big-titted mothers still provide their adolescents bras right?

15:40:59 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 9300 / (60 * 24 * 2.85 / 2)

15:40:59 gribble: 4.53216374269

15:41:08 mircea_popescu: o look, average sale five bux.

15:41:10 bagels7: no, women with large breasts make more money causing poor women to mainly be small tit owners

15:42:00 mircea_popescu: xanthyos monkeys don't have any tits to speak of. the female breast is clearly the result of selection. the only way that works is for women with tits to have money while women without not to.

15:43:15 xanthyos: is it selection by males or did women with larger breasts simply have more milk to feed their young?

15:43:36 xanthyos: and provided more viable offspring

15:43:48 mike_c: or is it a broad generalization with little practical application?

15:43:53 mircea_popescu: nfi. i imagine it's purely aesthetic.

15:44:02 mircea_popescu: mike_c you mean like math, right ?

15:44:07 mike_c: absolutely

15:44:07 xanthyos: it's a counterweight to the ass

15:44:11 xanthyos: so women don't fall back

15:44:42 bagels7: yes broad generalizations with very little practical use

15:44:45 mike_c: you know what i like about math? i recently had a difficult math problem to solve, and didn't feel like dealing with it. so i had a math TA do it for total cost of 0.

15:45:04 mircea_popescu: mike_c same is true of women with big tits!

15:45:13 mircea_popescu: if you don't feel like doing it, you can always ask a ta.

15:45:40 mircea_popescu: turns out there's a lot of predictive power in this tits like math thing.

15:45:53 xanthyos: i sent to my bc.i from coinbase. i am no longer anonymous.

15:45:54 mike_c: hm, this deserves more study. with pictures.

15:46:07 mircea_popescu: mike_c i predict golf club patterns!

15:47:06 mircea_popescu: jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "Adlai Chandrasekhar <<< wait his real name is actually adlai ?!

15:47:18 mircea_popescu: that's a pretty rad name.

15:47:40 xanthyos: adlai atkins

15:51:51 mircea_popescu: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/Live_updates_Rosetta_mission_comet_landing << it did it!

15:51:51 assbot: Live updates: Rosetta mission comet landing / Operations / Our Activities / ESA

16:17:17 chetty: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/12/Father-Asks-Obama-To-Bring-Son-Slain-By-Illegal-Alien-Back-To-Life-With-Executive-Order

16:17:17 assbot: Father Asks Obama to Use Executive Order to Bring Son Slain by Illegal Alien Back to Life

16:17:55 TomServo: o_O

16:25:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00045949 = 6.8464 BTC [-]

16:38:23 asciilifeform: Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls

16:41:43 asciilifeform: Adlai: manual patching is a deliberate choice here. each patch is a document that those who sign it are expected to actually read -and- understand.

16:42:32 Adlai: in my experience, all systems can be automated, and it's only a matter of deciding at what level you're willing to lose a human's judgement/"moral compass", but gain the benefits of automation

16:42:42 asciilifeform: Adlai: once you understand why i suggested it, and why those who agreed - agreed - you will learn something interesting.

16:43:25 asciilifeform: Adlai: i like 'git', 'darcs', etc. automata just as much as the next lazy fellow. but they are wholly inappropriate for this application. try to see why.

16:45:23 punkman: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/11/11/cloud_heat_is_putting_servers_in_homes_and_offices_and_the_heat_from_them.html

16:45:24 assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free.

16:46:44 Adlai: i'll admit that my feeling that darcs could be appropriate for this purpose is based more on speculation from darcs's theoretic background than on familiarity with the actual working software

16:47:40 asciilifeform: punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines ?

16:47:49 asciilifeform: punkman: seems unlikely

16:48:44 punkman: no idea

16:49:02 punkman: might be better with mining rigs

16:49:56 asciilifeform: Adlai: elaborate please re: theoretical.

16:50:25 Adlai: would you automate the following system: a car that self-destructs (killing the intruder) when it detects that it's being accessed without the owner's permission? where ownership is determined in an arbitrarily advanced way, ie, physical token, password, biometric, whatever you fancy.

16:50:51 asciilifeform: ah, the ancient mines vs sentries debate.

16:51:35 asciilifeform: but this here is more of a sword vs pistol debate.

16:51:48 asciilifeform: battlefield: an elevator.

16:56:55 asciilifeform: Adlai: let's backtrack. the purpose of the effort spoken of earlier is to go from a 'bitcoind' of known pedigree to something worth using as a reference for, possibly in the future, reimplementation (how and by whom, deliberately not said)

16:57:28 joecool: your effort or gavin's?

16:57:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes and mod6

16:57:46 asciilifeform: i'm only involved briefly and by accident.

16:57:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42879 @ 0.00045831 = 19.6519 BTC [-] {2}

16:58:05 asciilifeform: gavin is a fellow on the enemy side.

16:58:33 asciilifeform: the deltas between the original and the end product are to be studied and judged by the participants (currently ben_vulpes, mod6, and occasionally yours truly)

16:59:16 asciilifeform: in order to be studied in such a way as to be signable with good conscience, a given delta must exist as a purely human-readable document, of minimal length and formatting complexity.

16:59:24 asciilifeform: this means - ordinary unix patch.

16:59:37 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what do you think about BIP-65?

17:00:09 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919065

17:00:09 assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 01:46:06; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: bip-0065 << classic 'relevance farming.' the phoundation will take any excuse to add cruft to the gizmo. in their fantasy, folks will use it, and those who have resisted their turds will be forced to merge in.

17:00:39 asciilifeform: but more generally, any and all 'improvements' from the enemy ought to be thought of as 'fruits of poison tree'

17:02:02 thestringpuller: hmm. what do you think of the nlocktime problem?

17:02:10 asciilifeform: problem?

17:02:32 asciilifeform: no gavin, no gavinisms - no problem.

17:02:48 thestringpuller: nlocktime gives spender power to double spend before nlocktime occurs

17:03:11 nubbins`: surely the coar devs have spoken on this point

17:03:38 thestringpuller: but yes I do see the new opcode as sorta crufty on "cruft"

17:03:43 asciilifeform: 'doctor, it hurts when i do it.' 'don't do it.'

17:04:27 thestringpuller: so how would you use nlocktime asciilifeform ?

17:04:33 asciilifeform: i wouldn't.

17:05:20 thestringpuller: its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date

17:05:37 asciilifeform: we've a dire case of featuritis.

17:06:09 nubbins`: ;;google feature creep

17:06:10 gribble: Feature creep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep; What is feature creep - SearchCIO - TechTarget: http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/feature-creep; Urban Dictionary: feature creep: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feature%20creep

17:06:19 nubbins`: hm i've got a specific creep in mind

17:06:24 asciilifeform: one of the facts re: the phoundation is - even if gavin et. al. add something that is unambiguously, probably, angelically, positive to their turd - it is still an act of evil.

17:06:26 nubbins`: ;;google feature creep site:dilbert.com

17:06:27 gribble: Feature Creep on Dilbert.com: http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Feature%20Creep; February 5 2001 - Dilbert: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2001-02-05/; Dilbert comic strip for 02/25/2013 from the official Dilbert comic strips ...: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-02-25/

17:06:35 thestringpuller: yes yes. but if this is case should we not remove nlocktime altogether?

17:06:36 asciilifeform: how? because it then serves as bait, sugar so that you will swallow the shit.

17:06:54 nubbins`: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2001-02-05/

17:06:56 assbot: Dilbert comic strip for 02/05/2001 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

17:07:28 asciilifeform: at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is.

17:07:38 asciilifeform: this is a phrase transition of sorts.

17:07:39 nubbins`: ;;google know your enemy

17:07:39 gribble: Rage Against The Machine: Know Your Enemy - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smim2MNvF8; Green Day: "Know Your Enemy" - [Official Video] - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IclmVdWNbI; Know Your Enemy (Green Day song) - Wikipedia, the free ...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Your_Enemy_(Green_Day_song)

17:07:43 asciilifeform: *phase transition

17:07:56 thestringpuller: the one by rage is pretty good

17:08:02 thestringpuller: "all of which are american dreams"

17:08:23 nubbins`: soooo, the fluorescent tubes that took TEN WEEKS to get here? turns out "F20T12/BL 6PK" is the item number not of a 6-pack, but of a single bulb

17:08:39 nubbins`: so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three.

17:08:55 nubbins`: each of which is 6x more expensive than i'd previously thought.

17:09:06 asciilifeform: if what i just said seems like nuttery, consider this. the 'bug fixes', so obviously bright and good, by phoundation since 0.5.3 - somehow add up to us not being able to load a full blockchain.

17:09:45 asciilifeform: hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed.

17:09:52 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: know thy enemy << enemies are only relative. yesterday's allies easily become tomorrow's enemies. (perhaps maybe a one way street).

17:10:17 asciilifeform: there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles.

17:10:28 nubbins`: anyone besides alf actually tried and failed loading blockchain on 0.5.3?

17:10:29 thestringpuller: cthulu-like?

17:10:32 asciilifeform: there are also idiots. some of whom are of the 'useful idiot' variety

17:10:39 asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc ben_vulpes did

17:10:46 nubbins`: i was getting there but my virtual disk was too small, ran outta space, weird disk error ;/

17:10:47 asciilifeform: nubbins`: ask him where it wedged in his case

17:10:48 thestringpuller: nubbins`: i'll give it a try today on a VPS

17:10:49 nubbins`: trying again

17:11:03 nubbins`: ;;later tell ben_vulpes ^^ tell us what you know

17:11:04 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:11:19 thestringpuller: nubbins`: so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three. << so now you have to wait another 10 weeks to get the next 15 you need?

17:11:43 los_pantalones: !up mrjr

17:11:52 los_pantalones: mrjr is working w/ ntimelock

17:11:55 los_pantalones: for those of you with questions

17:12:41 nubbins`: thestringpuller so now i say fuck that company and order the gd bulbs online

17:12:41 los_pantalones: hmm

17:12:46 mike_c: !up mrjr

17:12:49 nubbins`: you know this is the second time i've gotten dicked around over bulbs?

17:13:04 thestringpuller: you would think it wouldn't be so difficult

17:13:18 thestringpuller: !up mrjr

17:13:21 nubbins`: guy made me wait 15 minutes while he struggled to determine if they actually sold 6-packs

17:13:24 nubbins`: 15 actual minutes

17:13:26 thestringpuller: lol lag

17:13:30 nubbins`: while he mutters OH MY SOME SLOW

17:13:41 nubbins`: and a passing woman says SLOW WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT

17:13:46 mrjr: hi guys what did i miss :)

17:13:47 nubbins`: how in the fuck is this a functioning business

17:14:37 los_pantalones: mrjr why don't you tell them a bit of what you are doing w/ ntimelock

17:14:39 thestringpuller: annoying the customer out of their money.

17:14:42 los_pantalones: see if that's compelling to the ppl in here

17:14:55 thestringpuller: los_pantalones: is this in regard to BIP-65?

17:17:27 mrjr: los_pantalones: i run LedgerLock, we're working on a product called time-vault, to secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key

17:18:34 mrjr: one of the first services we're providing (closed beta now) is keeping your nlock'ed transactions for you, until they're ripe for confirmations on the blockchain

17:18:42 thestringpuller: mrjr: aren't you in wot? what's your id?

17:20:01 mrjr: thestringpuller: never had the need for it :)

17:21:17 nubbins`: until now :D

17:21:22 nubbins`: pull up a chair

17:21:49 nubbins`: tell us more!

17:23:19 punkman: mrjr, guessing multisig

17:24:26 thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo nvm; disregard

17:24:27 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:26:16 mrjr: multisig is useful to protect access to privkey, by splitting the power of moving funds to 2+ entities. we pre-sign transactions, nlocked in time, and discard the private key.

17:26:41 mrjr: (or keys)

17:27:54 mrjr: there's edge cases with malleability etc, but the benefits are that bitcoin operations can have their coins kept in a tx form, not as the information of the privkey

17:28:57 mrjr: we're working on a whitepaper to have some feedback on our design :)

17:30:48 xanthyos: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Vp2l_IUAEFkd1.jpg

17:31:20 mrjr: the tech is useful e.g. for an exchange/bank that keeps large amounts of BTC, but has a daily use for BTC as clients withdraw funds.

17:31:27 thestringpuller: conclusion: our service holds burden of trust for time delay transactions

17:32:03 thestringpuller: but you already know that.

17:32:12 mats_cd03: i don't see how thats useful

17:32:40 mrjr: thestringpuller: our first service is just what you wrote, giving the network a means to trust that a tx will be valid on time (unless ofcourse it was double spent, in which case you get notified)

17:32:52 mrjr: thestringpuller: the greater product is larger in scope

17:33:13 thestringpuller: then you should def be in WoT "there is no need" more like "there is no greater need"

17:33:35 thestringpuller: cause you are the trustee

17:34:40 mrjr: thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper.

17:35:21 mrjr: i'm also the founder of Bits of Gold, the largest exchange in Israel

17:35:39 mrjr: gotta go, be back soon

17:55:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28419 @ 0.00044989 = 12.7854 BTC [-] {2}

18:07:04 Pierre_Rochard: “i'll work on getting my creds in order :)” <- translation: “I won’t work on that, and here’s an insincere smile to really reinforce what I think of it”

18:08:46 thestringpuller: ^- pretty much

18:37:11 asciilifeform: mrjr: secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key << wai wat.

18:37:29 asciilifeform: mrjr: delayed transaction, per that scheme, still eventually lands in an addr. secured with what if not priv key ?

18:44:09 asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov nothing in my mailbox from turdatron.

18:44:10 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:46:25 asciilifeform: !up mrjr

18:47:10 mrjr: asciilifeform: you're right, but by pre-signing you ensure that the amounts available at that address, per unit time, are limited. our first partners are ATM machine operators

18:47:35 mrjr: think of the daily needs of those machines, vs the amount stored "in cold storage" using traditional systems

18:47:43 asciilifeform: per unit time. but what can you do if someone walks with the privkey to the landing address?

18:47:59 asciilifeform: if you already broadcast the delayed tx, all the thief has to do is wait.

18:48:25 mrjr: you can't and don

18:48:36 mrjr: 't broadcast the txs to that address

18:48:52 mrjr: you broadcast daily, as it's needed.

18:49:01 asciilifeform: what's the actual purpose of the delay ?

18:49:53 asciilifeform: let's work example

18:50:27 asciilifeform: take ordinary, delay-less coin. you fill up the atm's addr nightly, say. if you are told that someone walked away with the machine, you no longer send to that one.

18:50:34 asciilifeform: install new machine, with new address, more guards.

18:50:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00044315 = 6.0268 BTC [-]

18:50:46 mrjr: there's an alternative pre-signed transaction chain that sends the coins to alternative addresses, possibly more protected, and a pre-signed "lockdown" transaction that just sends the coins to a non-practical (from an operation standpoint) multisig

18:50:59 asciilifeform: in the case of delay mechanism: you've broadcast a set of delayed transactions that will keep landing in the now-stolen addr. nightly.

18:51:23 mrjr: i'll take your example and explain

18:52:07 mrjr: say you presign 50 BTC / day to a given ATM, coming from your stash of 1000 BTC.

18:52:53 mrjr: you do not broadcast those tx, you just keep the txs, signed, and discard the privkey to your 1000 BTC (!)

18:53:55 asciilifeform: i understand the 'what.' but not the 'why.'

18:54:09 mrjr: you pre-sign the txs that move the remaining 1000 BTC - x days to a non-practical multisig

18:54:37 mrjr: the why is: the operators of the ATM no longer have a need to reach out for the cold-stored 1000 BTC

18:54:47 asciilifeform: they didn't before

18:54:54 asciilifeform: when you sent to them manually each day.

18:55:06 mrjr: "when you sent them manually"

18:55:11 mrjr: *manually*

18:55:42 asciilifeform: if you like to keep the privkey to the 1000 buried in concrete at the bottom of the sea - you can sign X tx'es of B btc each, and transmit those each day with cron job

18:55:43 mrjr: I operate a 1000 ATMs, and I have a stash of 10,000 BTC (les pretend i do :) )

18:55:53 asciilifeform: you want the btc network to be your 'cron' ?

18:55:55 asciilifeform: why?

18:56:41 joecool: more robust i guess if an attack wipes him out?

18:56:44 mrjr: you still need a cron, to send the nlocked txs every day

18:56:52 joecool: then what's the point -_-

18:57:04 mrjr: however you could publish those txs on your blog for all you care

18:57:08 asciilifeform: what does the 'lock' prevent the enemy from doing, that he could have done otherwise ?

18:57:32 mrjr: if the attacker has access to all your txs in unlocked version, they can indeed run away with everything

18:58:18 mrjr: discarding the privkey is a measure against internal theft, which is key to this scheme

18:58:22 asciilifeform: the other, unrelated point about the timelock business, is that it introduces an incentive to monkey with timekeeping

18:58:31 asciilifeform: which is not something that currently afflicts node operators

18:58:51 jurov: <asciilifeform> punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines << they do have lower wholesale prices where you have to obey the grid management regime, dunno about details

18:59:18 asciilifeform: if a critical mass of ntp servers (e.g. the u.s. hierarchy) is pwned, there go your timelocks.

18:59:26 mrjr: did i explain sufficiently the motivation part?

18:59:34 punkman: asciilifeform: nlocktime is block height I think

18:59:48 *: asciilifeform reads the thing

18:59:56 punkman: oh both apparently?

19:00:08 joecool: punkman: it has to be both

19:01:39 mrjr: we ran the scenario on the withdraw data from gox

19:02:16 mrjr: (put asside their entire fiasco, just the data)

19:02:56 mrjr: we saw that with just 1,000 BTC accessible to the operators, they could cover 96% of their Bitcoin withdrawal needs

19:03:51 mrjr: the remaining 200k+ BTC can be stored in a form that is in-accessible to the operator, and unavailable for "rogue txs" that steal everything

19:04:26 mrjr: inaccessible = nobody can sign, because the key no longer exists.

19:04:33 mrjr: that includes internal theft.

19:04:36 *: asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'

19:04:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^^^^

19:04:53 asciilifeform: *revocable

19:06:03 asciilifeform: alice in the looking-glass, famously is offered 'jam tomorrow and jam yesterday -- but never jam today.'

19:06:33 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element

19:06:43 asciilifeform: so sorely missing from bitcoin from the point of view of the enemy.

19:07:42 mrjr: i wasnt aware there was politics behind nlock. always considered it as potentially very useful.

19:08:02 asciilifeform: but now you're aware.

19:08:30 mrjr: got a blog / post on the issue you're describing? sounds interesting

19:08:43 asciilifeform: afaik this here is the only place you'll hear the argument.

19:08:47 asciilifeform: i just deduced it now.

19:08:57 asciilifeform: can't imagine i'm the only one, though.

19:09:14 mrjr: ill go get my wot in order

19:09:15 mrjr: ttyl

19:10:21 assbot: Last 15 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02NHQYM.txt )

19:10:21 asciilifeform: !b 15

19:28:12 mats_cd03: ;;ticker

19:28:14 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 399.08, Best ask: 399.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.89000, Last trade: 399.98, 24 hour volume: 49575.14498042, 24 hour low: 381.55, 24 hour high: 453.92, 24 hour vwap: 429.779216449

19:34:47 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: can't imagine i'm the only one, though. << you aren't

19:52:07 xanthyos: come mr towel man towel my banana

20:00:40 xanthyos: why does btc always crash the second i buy it

20:00:50 xanthyos: ^^ proof positive that jesus hates me

20:01:32 xanthyos: that's it, i'm gonna blow it all on 1 hand of internet roulette

20:05:15 undata: xanthyos: that should've been expected with such a sharp rise.

20:05:46 xanthyos: if it crashes, my purchase goes through, if it goes to the moon, coinbase will cancel the transaction

20:06:01 xanthyos: i hope not^

20:06:18 undata: you've angered bitjesus I guess

20:06:31 xanthyos: mammon?

20:17:28 asciilifeform: mammon << sterculius.

20:20:34 The20YearIRCloud: hmm

20:23:01 xanthyos: 4 business days is so obscene, no wonder banking is dead

20:32:13 jurov: can't you just buy off stan?

20:32:46 jurov: what would happen, gasenwagen?

20:33:56 asciilifeform: jurov: buy what?

20:34:19 jurov: xanthyos wants to buy coins, you need some $$$

20:34:22 jurov: no?

20:34:35 asciilifeform: jurov: except that i can't use paper usd for anything

20:34:43 asciilifeform: well, almost anything

20:35:05 jurov: and if he gave you some bezzle usd?

20:35:09 asciilifeform: last farmer's market of the year on my street is tonight, and i shall be buying a few tomatoes possibly with it

20:35:19 asciilifeform: jurov: if bezzle usd, then it's on the radar.

20:35:41 xanthyos: ?

20:35:44 jurov: you'd have to register as std..er..money transmitter?

20:35:53 asciilifeform: jurov: i'd be charged tax, most likely

20:35:57 asciilifeform: for no particularly good reason

20:36:02 xanthyos: i only use paper money for poker games and cannabis

20:36:27 dub: your dealer doesnt take btc?

20:36:53 jurov: maybe you can even charge tax to the desperate people

20:37:00 jurov: let them ask it back from irs

20:38:28 asciilifeform: other thing is, i don't have enough to sell, and present exchange rates being, to really notice the resulting pile of usd, even if it could magically land in my usd piggy without official attention.

20:44:05 asciilifeform: let's put it this way. a pile of usd without at least seven or eight decimally-significant zeros trailing after it, would make absolutely no difference to how i live.

20:47:37 asciilifeform: apologies if i've given someone, somewhere, the strange notion that i'm interested in parting with my microscopic collection of btc.

20:50:10 asciilifeform: it's of more use to me as a scientific toy than as a few new tires for car or a dozen spare disks.

20:50:56 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/dickson-county-tennessee-sheriff-hit-with-ransomware-pays/

20:50:56 assbot: Dickson County Tennessee Sheriff Hit with Ransomware, Pays | Qntra.net

20:51:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: missing link in there?

20:51:44 rithm: yeah i was gonna say where is the citation

20:51:56 rithm: you guys _do_ cite your sources

20:52:00 BingoBoingo: fixed

20:52:18 BingoBoingo: citation is now there.

20:53:18 asciilifeform: run moar winblows.

20:53:58 asciilifeform: gotta love these idiots. when'll somebody edit, rather than simply wiping, the case files ?

20:54:40 notary: [trust-update] added: bagels7

20:54:53 rithm: i shared that with my team

20:55:13 rithm: documented sources where the FBI actually makes the recommendation to pay the ransom is useful to me

20:55:33 BingoBoingo: I imagine eventually the ransomware people will start browsing what they've seized

20:55:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: traditionally 'ransomware' doesn't exfiltrate

20:56:00 asciilifeform: just pubkey-crypts

20:56:03 TomServo: It's extracted? I thought it was just locked inplace.

20:56:05 rithm: well it's my understanding the data is not exfiltrated

20:56:12 rithm: not immediately although that could be a later payload

20:56:49 asciilifeform: virtually nobody dredges through a chumpnet's entire accessible data set, on account of this being very much like actual work.

20:56:52 rithm: the only data exfiltrated to my knowledge is the decryption key and an identifier for the machine

20:56:53 BingoBoingo: Well yes, normally seems to stay on victim's computer, but if they can lock the files, they can include other shitware

20:57:16 rithm: but it's be trivial to exfiltrate compressed text, sure

20:57:32 asciilifeform: rithm: most of it is probably msword

20:57:40 rithm: it only hits plain text

20:57:50 rithm: so like a .sql db is plaintext unless encrypted

20:58:06 rithm: it hits plain text viewable docs, even weird proprietary ones

20:58:28 rithm: proprietary .idx files and stuff. always plaintext though

20:58:29 asciilifeform: speaking of the general case here.

20:58:49 asciilifeform: 'civilians' often seriously misunderstand the motivation behind botnetsmanship.

20:59:02 rithm: i had an engineer reinstall windows on a cryptowall pc this week and return it to the client

20:59:04 asciilifeform: the objective, virtually always, is to make some fast money

20:59:08 asciilifeform: with minimal effort

20:59:15 rithm: we never tested the docs, the client brought it to us and tried to hide or cleasn it up

20:59:29 rithm: we returned it "fixed" never check ed the client's docs

21:00:01 rithm: i think i've dealt with 5 of those this week

21:00:03 asciilifeform: crapware written for intelligence-gathering purposes ( BingoBoingo's picture above ) rarely takes the shape of a 'botnet', usually there is some effort to target a narrow set of chumpers.

21:00:18 joecool: poweliks is a really interesting infection that often pulls in the cyperlocker ransomware, that hit the wild a couple months ago

21:00:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00044251 = 17.0809 BTC [-]

21:01:01 rithm: it's cryptowall now and from what i can tell it's infected sites like mom & pop's ruinning old WP/drupal/some CMS

21:01:23 rithm: the story i hear is Nancy was checking vendor's site and the next thing she knows bam cryptowall

21:02:09 rithm: remote code execution is code execution is execution

21:02:20 rithm: the problem is cryptolocker runs entirely in the user context

21:02:33 rithm: so anything the user has access to, specifically filesystem permissions

21:02:36 rithm: they can modify

21:03:37 rithm: so the payload is a real basic thing, modifying files. i hate it

21:05:14 joecool: rithm: ever play with TDL4?

21:05:50 rithm: i don't see a lot of those infections

21:06:04 rithm: used to see a good bit tdss

21:06:07 rithm: etc

21:06:36 rithm: i myself have not deployed my own nefarious variant of that either, no

21:06:38 joecool: it's been a long time for me, but that was the most sophisticated and difficult infection i've seen, XP was hit really easy with it

21:07:24 rithm: in general i have run subscription based-packet filtering firewalls to stop things

21:07:33 rithm: because users are stupid

21:07:42 joecool: poweliks is much more simple, usually creates a binary in registry hides it with a null character and puts it in with something that gets called up a lot (like thumbnail cache)

21:08:00 rithm: poweliks I'm not familiar with

21:08:03 joecool: it's new

21:08:11 joecool: past 2 months or so it's been in the wild

21:08:14 rithm: i review a lot of the desktop stuff, not actually interface with it on the frontlines

21:08:30 rithm: so i need to study

21:08:56 joecool: i got called in to look at an infection that no tool but combofix would pick up, combofix itself would not successfully remove it

21:08:56 rithm: oic there's now PE or even a filesystem object

21:09:03 asciilifeform: crapware artists, generally, aren't focused on 'maximally pwning' a chump in the abstract sense, but in extracting whatever it is that he is worth - e.g., cc #s

21:09:04 rithm: *no PE

21:09:19 asciilifeform: if userland turd suffices for this, then so be it, they use one

21:10:28 joecool: asciilifeform: poweliks by default runs a keylogger and is pretty candid about storing the output in plaintext in a tmp file

21:11:06 joecool: it's simple but effective tool to pull in all sorts of junk, the case i was called in to look at was actually a POS system :-\

21:11:37 rithm: i can see how something like this plus a ram scraper would be effective

21:11:40 rithm: on POS

21:21:10 BingoBoingo: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/11/13/199242/no-you-cant-seize-country-tlds-us-court-rules

21:21:11 assbot: No, You Can't Seize Country TLDs, US Court Rules - Slashdot

21:21:51 mircea_popescu: flimsy as fyck pretext

21:22:09 mircea_popescu: they should have found that tlds are of the nature of national sovereignty and that cannot be impinged upon by an us court.

21:22:42 asciilifeform: usa recognizes only own sovereignty.

21:23:12 mircea_popescu: the very definition of a terrorist organisation.

21:23:14 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-11-2014#914983

21:23:14 assbot: Logged on 08-11-2014 18:24:33; mircea_popescu: "those people's laws aren't really laws, our laws are really laws".

21:23:20 mircea_popescu: if that's the case, the us can not be part of the un.

21:24:10 mircea_popescu: as unintuitive as this may seem, these two are actually different.

21:24:29 asciilifeform: http://media.boreme.com/post_media/2005/kermit-visits-doctor.jpg

21:24:35 mircea_popescu: it's roughly the difference between me not recognising X's thinking as valid and me not recognising X's property as his.

21:24:54 mircea_popescu: lol

21:27:07 mircea_popescu: assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free. << o look, one step closer to the bitcoin miner heating tile element.

21:27:17 BingoBoingo: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-stops-responding-to-most-prolific-foia-filer-because-he-might-actually-learn-something.shtml?utm_content=buffer6164d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

21:27:19 assbot: FBI Stops Responding To The Most Prolific FOIA Filer, Because He Might Actually Learn Something | Techdirt

21:28:28 asciilifeform: next thing you know, they start asking 'proof of work'.

21:28:35 asciilifeform: foiacoin.

21:29:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i wouldn't. << heh. exactly.

21:30:32 cazalla: wru scoopbot http://qntra.net/2014/11/bank-of-canada-bitcoin-poses-no-risk-but-well-watch-it-closely-anyway/

21:30:32 assbot: Bank of Canada: Bitcoin Poses No Risk But We'll Watch It Closely Anyway | Qntra.net

21:31:16 mircea_popescu: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/foia-ryan-shapiro-fbi-files-lawsuit << pretty lulzy

21:31:17 assbot: Meet the Punk Rocker Who Can Liberate Your FBI File | Mother Jones

21:32:00 mircea_popescu: The FBI claims that it cannot discuss the case in open court "without damaging the very national security law enforcement interests it is seeking to protect." Instead, it has filed a secret declaration outlining its case. "This is an especially circular and Kafkaesque line of argument," Shapiro counters. "The FBI considers it a national security threat to make public its reasoning for considering it a national security

21:32:01 mircea_popescu: threat to use federal law to request information about the FBI's deeply problematic understanding of national security threats."

21:35:43 mircea_popescu: shot the guy an email, curious what comes of this.

21:38:29 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date << there are better solutions to this problem.

21:39:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is. <<< well, at the previous point the enemy was not an enemy at all, just a bunch of derps. it's ony recently that fraudsters went from "power rangers" to "gavin has turned", and for a while there prior to the 2013 debacle he was not even being treated in concordance with the idiocy

21:39:53 mircea_popescu: he, in retrospect, universally displays.

21:40:49 asciilifeform: enemy is built out of useful idiots, in the same way that a tree is made of atmospheric co2 and soil nutrients

21:40:56 mircea_popescu: the naivity of contemporaneity, as it's called. hitler also seemed pretty reasonable to plenty of people as far up as perhaps 1940, but that's not preventing a current understanding of the guy to see him as pretty fucking broken as early as 1930

21:41:43 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04CVCC6.txt )

21:41:43 BingoBoingo: !b 3

21:41:53 mircea_popescu: kafka is actually famous for exactly the ability to render this real situation in works of fiction. as you read through the castle or whatever, at some point you realise this is all pretty nutty, but if you look back to spot when the nuttiness started...well... it didn't seem so at the time.

21:42:36 asciilifeform: this goes straight back to galbraith's original discussion where he coined 'the bezzle.'

21:42:42 jurov: ;;later tell Adlai your msg finally went throught. it choked on not mime structure intricacies

21:42:43 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:42:57 asciilifeform: a bezzle is there, whether or not the 'wave function collapsed yet'.

21:43:04 mircea_popescu: for a zoologiocal metaphor, the man once bit by a scorpion will readily recognise the "scorpion biting" as an activity that to the naive may well look rather cute.

21:43:23 mircea_popescu: and certainly not threatening.

21:43:44 mircea_popescu: i mean... look at it's tail lol. what's it going to do with that improbable appendage ? how ridoinculous etc.

21:43:53 mircea_popescu: yeah, sure. give it a minute.

21:44:58 mircea_popescu: !up m4rCsi

21:47:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed. << i dun think so, fwiw

21:48:28 asciilifeform: i'm still waiting to be proven mistaken on this one.

21:50:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles. <<< one you see now. once china's idiotic mr Xi shows up you'll be of a differing opinion. that fuckwit came up with a "war on corruption" that includes the theory that conjugal infidelity is both a sign and a symptom of graft. this is what they do over there now, prosecute cocksuckers & sluts.

21:50:39 mircea_popescu: he's definitely just as much an enemy as the wily putin, who clearly understands what bitcoin is all about, and is fighting it more efficiently than the us.

21:50:50 mircea_popescu: so, no. not the same. tentacles tho, i guess.

21:51:18 asciilifeform: same from the perspective that french rev. saw 'kings' as a thing.

21:51:24 mircea_popescu: i guess.

21:51:26 asciilifeform: even though it was rather clear that there were many kings.

21:51:54 mircea_popescu: in any case, the plurality is beneficial. serenissima foreign policy is to continue helping along the numerous and growing breeches among the three

21:52:05 mircea_popescu: just like the original did, among the french germans and latins.

21:53:53 mircea_popescu: ironically, they today as they back then were "the enemy" strictly because they do not wish to understand or submit to trade, and instead seek to insulate against it. as if.

21:56:08 asciilifeform: the philosophical 'win' from setting 'bozo bit' on gavin et. al. and seeing the shitgang as 'enemy' is tangible.

21:56:27 mircea_popescu: i guess so.

21:56:29 mircea_popescu: !up saifedean

21:56:46 asciilifeform: now all of their works are 'guilty until proven innocent' and this is actually a useful heuristic that saves valuable brain cycles when ferreting out the actual logic behind their actions (when there is a logic.)

21:56:57 saifedean: good evening everyone

21:57:11 mircea_popescu: isn't it like midnight where you live ?

21:57:16 mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: who are the three this time?

21:57:32 mircea_popescu: !up reredacted

21:57:43 mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 two lines up ?!

21:58:05 saifedean: so the arab bitcoin space is growing up so fast... we are getting our own scamcoin

21:58:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture a zoologist encountering an alien equivalent of the scorpion for the first time. what will his most important, though scientifically 'fuzziest' observations be? that the animal is - venomous.

21:58:25 mircea_popescu: ayup.

21:58:27 saifedean: this guy i know who works on atm's is launching his own cryptocurrency! And it's backed by real assets! REAL

21:58:35 mircea_popescu: saifedean more of that huh.

21:58:41 saifedean: http://www.ucicoin.com/faq

21:58:42 assbot: UCICOIN Crowdsale

21:58:54 saifedean: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/universal-crowd-funding-investments-l-225646854.html

21:58:56 assbot: Universal Crowd-Funding Investments S.A.L (U.C.I S.A.L) Recently Launched Its Crowd Sale and a Crypto Currency Backed by Real Assets and Now is Looking to Establish a Branch in Switzerland - Yahoo Finance

21:59:12 mircea_popescu: how do you say neobee in lebanese

21:59:39 saifedean: UCICOIN, i guess

22:00:34 mircea_popescu: saifedean so do your countrymen a favour, write a local language lenghty piece on exactly how neobee worked, what it was etc.

22:04:39 chetty: !up saifedean

22:05:09 saifedean: i'm not too bothered, i don't think he'll muster more than $100 in "investment"

22:05:44 mircea_popescu: mrjr: multisig is useful to protect access to privkey, by splitting the power of moving funds to 2+ entities. we pre-sign transactions, nlocked in time, and discard the private key. <<< and i know that you do because... you say so ?

22:05:57 mircea_popescu: saifedean that's not the point tho.

22:06:06 saifedean: he keeps trying to recruit me to work with him, and i keep trying my best to bluntly explain to him that his whole thing is going to a giant fat zero, and that the best outcome possible for him is to lose only all his money

22:06:25 mircea_popescu: mrjr: there's edge cases with malleability etc, but the benefits are that bitcoin operations can have their coins kept in a tx form, not as the information of the privkey << this is so braindamaged i can'teven be bothered.

22:07:39 mircea_popescu: motherfucker someone made a clear "here's the water, here's the flour" thing so it's simple and obvious, all sorts of derps come up with all sorts of "improvements" consisting of various doughs. "it stores better as canned frozen dough with our magical chemicals than as simple flour! and you can make things!"

22:07:50 mircea_popescu: this "innovation" is the fucking thing bitcoin was made to kill.

22:09:17 mircea_popescu: mrjr: thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper. <<< myewah, the surprises keep right on coming

22:09:24 mircea_popescu: don't bother with the wot, i'll neg you anyway.

22:10:53 mircea_popescu: fucking ignorant derps. "here's a shitpie i made. my investors are ken lay and i'll be making a whipetatter"

22:12:02 chetty: <mircea_popescu> this "innovation" is the fucking thing bitcoin was made to kill.//so they make a lot of messes, thats how kiddies learn and once in a while something useful actually gets invented

22:12:22 mircea_popescu: fuck him. he has a known fraud as an "investor" ? he's fucked.

22:12:28 mircea_popescu: that's what due dilligence fucking means.

22:16:17 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/141QFK2.txt )

22:16:17 BingoBoingo: !b 2

22:16:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^^^^ < at this level it is difficult to distinguish simple idiocy riding on featuritis (because nobodies wish to get a place in the sun, and absent actual skils what better avenue trhan the pretense of adding value ?) and actual malice as oyu describe.

22:17:05 mircea_popescu: in any case, nlocktime is ulterior on the flow of entalpy to that kafkian point where shit went weird, identified retrospectively.

22:19:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: except that i can't use paper usd for anything << do what the soon-to-be-"protected" folk do, use a rechargeable prepaid card lol

22:19:57 BingoBoingo: The good reloadable prepaid cards even allow you to write "checks"

22:20:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: let's put it this way. a pile of usd without at least seven or eight decimally-significant zeros trailing after it, would make absolutely no difference to how i live. <<< this is like... the definition of poverty!

22:20:40 mircea_popescu: so basically, until he marries kim kardashian, stan will be pretty much going on with whatever it is he's doing today.

22:21:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: gotta love these idiots. when'll somebody edit, rather than simply wiping, the case files ? << the one time you'll never hear about it, because how would you.

22:24:04 mircea_popescu: joecool: poweliks is a really interesting infection that often pulls in the cyperlocker ransomware, that hit the wild a couple months ago << look at that, someone took the trouble to make a trojan that works on all windowses to date ?

22:24:11 mircea_popescu: "Windows 2000, Windows 7, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, Windows XP", we should probably hire this man.

22:25:37 mircea_popescu: rithm: it's cryptowall now and from what i can tell it's infected sites like mom & pop's ruinning old WP/drupal/some CMS <<< yeah, stuff the shitheads in question don't maintain, then i have to answer biweekly questions of "is qntra down". off with their heads i say!

22:30:37 jurov: str = 'line1\nline2 \\\n'

22:30:38 jurov: fp = open('out.txt', 'w')

22:30:40 jurov: fp.write(str)

22:30:41 jurov: fp.close()

22:30:46 jurov: guess what python does with this?


22:31:05 jurov: SOMEONE PLS KILL ME

22:32:09 jurov: why must this always happen to me?

22:32:24 mircea_popescu: lol poor j

22:33:17 Azelphur: jurov: http://pastebin.com/z2BSyU1V nope

22:33:18 assbot: azelphur@darth-vader:~$ cat test.py str = 'line1\nline2 \\\n' fp = open('out.t - Pastebin.com

22:33:59 mircea_popescu: the plot, it thickens ?

22:34:31 jurov: Azelphur: hexdump out.txt?

22:34:44 jurov: here: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c

22:34:48 mircea_popescu: if this results in a patch to the kernel of w/e jurov's server is using...

22:34:57 Azelphur: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c

22:34:57 Azelphur: 000000e

22:35:01 Azelphur: jurov: nope xD

22:35:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: use a rechargeable prepaid card << the day of 'thumbprint please sir' or at least 'show id' is not far.

22:36:08 asciilifeform: case files ... the one time you'll never hear about it << once it becomes a plausible thing to claim for a side in a case -> phase transition.

22:36:33 xanthyos: i don't understand free markets

22:36:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the definition of poverty! << say moar

22:37:14 jurov: Azelphur: it exchanged the \ and \n

22:37:38 jurov: or my brain misfired

22:37:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the argument i was trying to make is that, when grunting on a prison asteroid, a liter of rocket fuel makes very little difference. only L liters - sufficient for liftoff - will.

22:37:47 *: Azelphur shrugs

22:37:52 Azelphur: jurov: I wonder if it's a Windows line ending thing.

22:38:06 jurov: it's leeeeeenux here !!!1

22:38:19 Azelphur: that's just weird then

22:38:33 asciilifeform: jurov: in my very informal experiments, all extant browsers - without exception - mutilate line endings. so no point in 'paste box' apparatus, unless operated via something like mpex script.

22:38:59 asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901052

22:38:59 assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:19; asciilifeform: because plain ascii is like naked people

22:39:01 jurov: fp = open('out.txt', 'wb') did not help

22:39:22 jurov: but i am not putting the code in browser

22:39:29 jurov: oh you mean the paste box

22:39:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: someone took the trouble to make a trojan that works on all windowses to date ? << this is very easy given a purely-userland turd.

22:40:19 asciilifeform: (which the turd in question was. in fact, quite likely it is even mostly posix-compliant.)

22:40:32 jurov: this looks like a trojan in python..using \\\n to trigger

22:41:16 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: the definition of poverty! << say moar <<< sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

22:42:42 mircea_popescu: o look! there's a parade down my street

22:42:45 mircea_popescu: only the 5th this month.

22:43:37 jurov: damn hexdump switched the endianness, file is actually correct

22:44:36 mircea_popescu: <jurov> here: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c << seems correct endian ?

22:44:48 jurov: do hexdump -C

22:45:22 jurov: then it ends in 5c 0a as it should

22:46:54 jurov: but when you open out.txt in less or vim it pretends there is no newline in the end

22:47:02 mircea_popescu: 00000000 6c 69 6e 65 31 5c 6e 6c 69 6e 65 32 20 0a

22:47:03 mircea_popescu: o.o

22:47:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00045279 = 5.2524 BTC [-] {3}

22:48:04 jurov: there are total 4 backslashes in 'line1\nline2 \\\n' , maybe irc ate them?

22:48:09 mircea_popescu: but anyway.

22:50:11 mircea_popescu: !up JuliaTourianski

22:50:29 mircea_popescu: how's biz ?

22:53:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neh, i actually was hoping to hear moar.

22:53:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i can't dispute the poverty bit.

22:53:22 *: asciilifeform ragged dervish.

22:53:48 mircea_popescu: you gotta understand for most people $100 in disposable income would actually make a significant difference.

22:53:57 asciilifeform: gotta be shitting me

22:53:59 mircea_popescu: this is definitely most of africa, but i suspect most of the us by now, too.

22:54:03 asciilifeform: aha africa.

22:54:05 mircea_popescu: i am not shitting you.

22:54:34 mircea_popescu: i have yet to meet a female argentinian that's both a) fuckable and b) owner in her own right of $100 worth of monthly income free and clear of any burden.

22:54:35 asciilifeform: where i live, that buys slightly less than two full 'standard' tanks of petrol.

22:54:41 mircea_popescu: indeed.

22:54:48 asciilifeform: that is, a week of my commute, not counting toll gates or machine wear.

22:54:51 mircea_popescu: it buys even less than a lolipop on a comet, so what of it ?

22:54:55 mircea_popescu: don't try to live on comets.

22:54:56 asciilifeform: l0l.

22:56:05 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In this part of USia, $100 could buy 2 tanks with $20 left over

22:56:26 mircea_popescu: in romania it's just about ONE tank.

22:56:43 mircea_popescu: little over i guess.

22:56:44 *: asciilifeform picked a uniquely bad example, and realized

22:57:18 mircea_popescu: blowjobs better example.

22:57:23 mircea_popescu: $15 going rate here.

22:58:49 mircea_popescu: http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/kimkgif.gif << next we're gonna learn kim came to the us on a hb1 visa.

22:59:04 *: asciilifeform not an expert on the economics of this, but wonders how the cost relates to the 'unit cost' - that is, what it costs to house and feed a typical vendor.

22:59:06 JuliaTourianski: so change direction from blowjobs, I wanted to ask your thought on this "freedom" we're all obsessed with. i like this critique: "To coerce a man is to deprive him of freedom - freedom from what? Almost every moralist in human history has praised freedom. Like happiness and goodness, like nature and reality, it is a term whose meaning is so porous that there is little interpretation that it seems able to resist"

23:00:06 JuliaTourianski: the entire thing feels like a feel-good distraction from actual attainable action.

23:00:16 asciilifeform: which 'thing' ?

23:00:30 JuliaTourianski: the goal of freedom

23:00:35 asciilifeform: !s freedom

23:00:36 assbot: 296 results for 'freedom' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=freedom

23:00:40 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski let's take an oblique tack. forget coercing a man. what is coercing a woman ?

23:00:43 asciilifeform: not much of obsession around here.

23:01:02 JuliaTourianski: excatly. which is why i bother ask it here

23:01:11 mircea_popescu: well so answer lol

23:01:52 JuliaTourianski: don't be fecisious

23:02:16 *: asciilifeform screams, runs away

23:02:32 mircea_popescu: whadda ya mean ?

23:02:53 JuliaTourianski: "The doctrine that maintains that what I cannot have I must teach myself not to desire, that a desire eliminated, or successfully resisted, is as good as a desire satisfied, is a sublime, but, it seems to me, unmistakable, form of the doctrine of sour grapes: what I cannot be sure of, I cannot truly want. This makes it clear why the definition of negative liberty as the ability to do what one wishes - which is, in e

23:03:08 JuliaTourianski: will not do. If I find that I am able to do little or nothing of what I wish, I need only contract or extinguish my wishes, and I am made free. If the tyrant (or 'hidden persuader') manages to condition his subjects (or customers) into losing their original wishes and embracing ('internalising')

23:03:09 asciilifeform: facetious?

23:03:19 JuliaTourianski: the form of life he has invented for them, he will, on this definition, have succeeded in liberating them. He will, no doubt, have made them feel free - as Epictetus feels freer than his master (and the proverbial good man is said to feel happy on the rack). But what he has created is the very antithesis of political freedom

23:03:29 mircea_popescu: mebbe use a pastebin next time.

23:04:20 JuliaTourianski: meh i dunno. i'm trying to gage some thought that will surprise me maybe

23:04:31 JuliaTourianski: high hopes for mircea

23:04:43 asciilifeform: JuliaTourianski: try this on for size:

23:04:46 mircea_popescu: well so far we're at the point where we try to find out what you mean by words.

23:04:47 asciilifeform: !s sleep ad libitum

23:04:47 assbot: 3 results for 'sleep ad libitum' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sleep+ad+libitum

23:04:59 JuliaTourianski: ahaha

23:05:44 *: BingoBoingo finds it more useful to consider freedom a conditional

23:05:46 JuliaTourianski: alright I'll be super direct: is freedom possible? and if so, what is it?

23:06:10 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski for "it" to "be" something you're making some presumptions. is the color pink possible ? if so, what is it ?

23:06:27 mircea_popescu: if you define it as em with wavelength so and so, then yes.

23:06:34 mircea_popescu: otherwise... depends, pls to explain what you mean.

23:06:50 JuliaTourianski: actually i am not making presumptions at all. I am admitting to be color blind here

23:06:52 *: BingoBoingo also thinks the F-word is too tainted by abuse to be useful on its own.

23:07:16 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski lol you ever read how sussman was englightened ?

23:07:30 JuliaTourianski: no

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: "What are you doing?", asked Minsky.

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied.

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky.

23:07:38 mircea_popescu: "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play", Sussman said.

23:07:39 mircea_popescu: Minsky then shut his eyes.

23:07:41 mircea_popescu: "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked his teacher.

23:07:41 asciilifeform: inevitably modern discussions of 'freedom' reveal themselves as having the purpose of convincing a chump that the entire concept, but specifically his wishes to not be a zoo animal, is delusional and he 'is bad and should feel bad'

23:07:43 mircea_popescu: "So that the room will be empty."

23:07:45 mircea_popescu: At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

23:07:52 BingoBoingo: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html

23:07:52 assbot: Some AI Koans

23:08:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo by exception from the general rule, i actually wanted this one in teh record.

23:08:37 asciilifeform: this must be at least the 7th time sussman and his neural net pop up here.

23:08:40 BingoBoingo: Sure, figured I'd like the source for the sake of the rest of the stories

23:08:47 mircea_popescu: im a sucker for it, what can i say.

23:08:54 BingoBoingo: !s sussman

23:08:55 assbot: 5 results for 'sussman' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sussman

23:09:08 asciilifeform: !s minsky

23:09:09 assbot: 0 results for 'minsky' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=minsky

23:09:16 mircea_popescu: !s minski

23:09:16 assbot: 0 results for 'minski' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=minski

23:09:19 mircea_popescu: a well.

23:09:22 asciilifeform: eh.

23:09:24 JuliaTourianski: asciilifeform now that's presumptuous...even though I agree

23:09:48 JuliaTourianski: better questions

23:10:03 JuliaTourianski: is the discussion of freedom even important or relevant anymore

23:10:26 mircea_popescu: no discussion is either important or ever relevant if the discussers don't know what they mean by words.

23:10:48 asciilifeform: very important and relevant - to the zookeper - he is quite interested in making sure that it stays as it traditionally tends to be, useless and irrelevant.

23:10:49 JuliaTourianski: what do i need to clairfy for you mircea

23:11:16 mircea_popescu: you can start with coercion.,

23:11:39 JuliaTourianski: I quoted something, so I'd have to ask mr. berlin what he means

23:12:09 mircea_popescu: well yes, i guess you should. much like we can't use unsigned patches for any reason, you can't use undefined jumbles for any thinking.

23:12:34 mircea_popescu: generally writers do readers the courtesy of defining stuff tho.

23:12:38 JuliaTourianski: i think he means interference from governing bodies

23:13:06 asciilifeform: then goes the other question, is 'king hunger' a governing body?

23:13:09 JuliaTourianski: "One is that all coercion is, in so far as it frustrates human desires, bad as such, although it may have to be applied to prevent other, greater evils; while non-interference, which is the opposite of coercion, is good as such, although it is not the only good."

23:13:24 mircea_popescu: so how would education work in this paradigm ?

23:13:35 JuliaTourianski: +asciilifeform yeah, i've been thinking about that.

23:13:36 asciilifeform: http://work-way.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/59532394.jpg

23:13:43 asciilifeform: ^ 'king hunger'

23:13:44 mircea_popescu: because that happens to be both the source and the point of coercion in practice.

23:13:52 asciilifeform: see also king gravity, king thermodynamics, etc.

23:14:11 asciilifeform: (king hunger is actually just an affiliate duke under king thermo)

23:14:23 JuliaTourianski: Dostoyevsky said: "boots are superior to Pushkin" so what is freedom? freedom to starve of freeze in the cold? or freedom to be warm and fed under rule

23:14:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's come full circle, by now the unruly stupid children of yesteryear are forming pseudophylosophyc systems to justify their sillyness.

23:14:37 JuliaTourianski: and*

23:15:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'В мире есть царь: этот царь беспощаден, Голод названье ему.' ( http://www.stihi-rus.ru/1/Nekrasov/30.htm )

23:16:21 JuliaTourianski: both positive and negative liberty is used very well by every side of power

23:16:26 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski let's look through all this by using a model of yourself as a little girl.

23:16:40 mircea_popescu: you are a little girl growing up in the house of your parents, which is all nice and good.

23:16:43 JuliaTourianski: pleasant thoughts from you as always

23:17:21 mircea_popescu: you get to be 16. at this point you figure - miuch like that chick in wuthering heights or whichever had the 7 sisters - you have about as much need of fucking as you have of someone sticking his finger up your nose.

23:17:39 mircea_popescu: this notwithstanding, a strange man comes, takes you away, puts you in a new place and makes you pregnant.

23:17:55 mircea_popescu: this is obviously coercitive, on the part of said man.

23:18:21 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, you get over it, and the wound heals like any wound, and now you have children, which of course you love, being so wired to do.

23:18:35 mircea_popescu: but now they are 16, and a man comes and takes them to war, where they get shot and die.

23:18:46 mircea_popescu: this, obviously, also coercitive.

23:19:06 mircea_popescu: the alternative being, of course, that you could be an old maid, in which case the same children would be... just as equally dead.

23:19:35 mircea_popescu: or else, that you'd have unbearable brats the sort that grow up to be isaiah berlin and fill the world with the idiocy of their parareasonings as to why nobody ever needs to grow the fuck up already.

23:20:11 mircea_popescu: then the whole ecosystem collapses under their weight ; rocks fall, everyone dies ; the mongols come to rape the lot.

23:20:24 mircea_popescu: coercion, wtf do you mean coercion ? you're sitting on a chair right now, your but's coerced.

23:20:33 JuliaTourianski: hahah

23:20:52 JuliaTourianski: i think him and you agree on more than you think

23:21:06 mircea_popescu: of course we do.

23:21:23 JuliaTourianski: "If I save myself from an adversary by retreating indoors and locking every entrance and exit, I may remain freer than if I had been captured by him, but am I freer than if I had defeated or captured him? If I go too far, contract myself into too small a space, I shall suffocate and die. The logical culmination of the process of destroying everything through which I can possibly be wounded is suicide. While I exist

23:21:34 mircea_popescu: !up berndj

23:21:37 JuliaTourianski: I can never be wholly secure. Total liberation in this sense (as Schopenhauer correctly perceived) is conferred only by death.28

23:22:32 berndj: JuliaTourianski, do you know the book _48 laws of power_? your "sour grapes" comment reminded me, there's rule 36: Disdain things you cannot have: ignoring them is the best revenge

23:23:04 JuliaTourianski: berndj i have lately...been a master of this.

23:23:23 JuliaTourianski: i do know the book but i have yet to tread it

23:23:27 JuliaTourianski: read*

23:23:35 undata: I'm skeptical anyone who ever read a book called "48 Laws of Power" ever had any

23:23:35 JuliaTourianski: worth it?

23:23:39 berndj: totally!

23:24:04 undata: or if they did, it must've been the only thing on the toilet

23:24:19 berndj: lol undata many of its pages were indeed read on the toilet

23:24:29 JuliaTourianski: the who question on non-agression is interesting too

23:25:15 JuliaTourianski: i said it was flawed in a mailing list and i got some very insulted ancaps on my case

23:25:26 mircea_popescu: !up Mobuis

23:25:45 Mobuis: Thank you.

23:26:11 JuliaTourianski: Woman and man at a bar. They may or may not be flirting...each may interpret their interaction differently. Man grabs woman's ass. Woman punches man in face. Has there been a violation of the non-aggression principle? What if the woman liked it or wanted it, but felt embarrassed of her urges due to the public setting and retaliated in a way she felt redeemable. Or maybe she was abused as a child and the act de

23:26:20 JuliaTourianski: We can't know. So who aggressed against who? Should the man have asked to grab her ass first...well, that would contradict the entire concept of the mutual thrill of ass grabbing.

23:26:49 mircea_popescu: o wait, english speakers actually know that exists ?

23:26:58 mircea_popescu: jesus it must suck.

23:32:50 danielpbarron: try asking an "ancap" if you have the right to beat your own kids/wives/slaves on your own property

23:33:29 mircea_popescu: what's the location got to do with it !?

23:34:23 jurov: http://bugs.python.org/issue7143 at last!

23:34:24 assbot: Issue 7143: get_payload(decode=True) eats last newline in base64 encoded payload - Python tracker

23:34:44 JuliaTourianski: mircea_popescu did you run a porn site

23:35:13 berndj: mircea_popescu, presumably on a road, the owner of the road might require you to sign a contract that forbids beating your kids

23:35:27 mircea_popescu: jurov ahahaha o god help us. that is like a canonical example of evil.

23:35:43 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski dja mea nthe 4chan clone ?

23:36:00 mircea_popescu: berndj can he now ?

23:36:46 berndj: can who now what?

23:37:23 mircea_popescu: can some dude owning a road require me anything.

23:39:07 JuliaTourianski: danielpbarron most would sa no because NAP

23:39:27 mircea_popescu: ;;ud nap

23:39:28 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nap | nap. 3 hours of sleep or less. Zerostar took a nap from 2pm to 5pm. by GheTTo January 08, ... My roommate just left for class, so I think I'm going to take a nap.

23:39:36 JuliaTourianski: mircea_popescu so did u

23:39:52 mircea_popescu: so what's this nap ?

23:40:09 RagnarDanneskjol: she asks about pron likely b/c forum muppets derping about your random erotic art posts on 'lema

23:40:39 JuliaTourianski: what kind of porn was it

23:40:45 BingoBoingo: Oh no, RagnarDanneskjol MP once ran a chan site. Full of people posting n00dz

23:41:16 JuliaTourianski: i may break my abstinence tonight if this website still exists

23:41:31 RagnarDanneskjol: ah

23:41:51 BingoBoingo: Site was polimedia.us/dtng

23:42:05 undata: mircea_popescu: a religious notion that anarchists suppose would bring about peace on earth and good will towards men

23:42:22 undata: the non-aggression principle

23:42:27 mircea_popescu: oh, that.

23:42:29 mircea_popescu: eh, bs.

23:42:54 mircea_popescu: what, the "i have no balls" tag was taken ?

23:42:59 BingoBoingo: Yeah, the *archists would reintroduce aggression

23:43:37 BingoBoingo: There's always going to be a *archy

23:43:50 undata: BingoBoingo: but... read this blog post about how mean it is

23:44:00 mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski which webiste ? dtng was basically... a chan. you know, random people posting whatever.

23:44:11 mircea_popescu: if i recall there was a lengthy thread of naked women in star wars paraphenalia

23:44:19 mircea_popescu: weird shit like that.

23:44:52 BingoBoingo: undata: Of course *archy is mean. Just avoid the robokleptarchy

23:45:15 JuliaTourianski: dissapointing

23:50:08 undata: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mp6C4g23uYo/hqdefault.jpg

23:50:11 undata: LOOOL

23:50:18 RagnarDanneskjol: did we just miss a golden opportunity to have miss T. break this abstinence streak?

23:50:28 undata: https://www.google.com/search?q=julia+tourianski

23:50:28 assbot: julia tourianski - Google Search

23:52:23 *: BingoBoingo wonders what shitgnome introduced "non-aggression" into ananrchy. With the persistence of the *archy it would seem that aggression would be necessary in one's own defense.

23:55:40 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i;ll tell you how that went. dudes for some reason perceive the need to "sell" it, and since it's obvious that you can't sell something to someone that the someone;d perceive as a "worse" alternative, then necessarily it must be made so that anarchy is not more painful to the average derp than you know, the 1980s in the us.

23:56:19 mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that the only possible point to even having anarchy in the first place is to render the sorts of idiots that'd fall for it.

23:57:21 undata: "Those guys over there are organizing! Someone should stop them! But how?"

23:57:48 BingoBoingo: To think that 100 years ago anarchist aggression started a conflict among the euroarchists

23:57:56 mircea_popescu: twice.

23:58:10 mircea_popescu: before being coopted by the socialists, the russian revolution was pure anarchism.

23:58:30 mircea_popescu: for that matter, the us was quite a different beast before being coopted by the socialists to.

23:58:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mahno's or more generally?

23:58:54 mircea_popescu: it's funny, this particular bromilliad, sometimes catches root on a tree, then proceds to derp all about how you know, the purpose of the tree is it!

23:59:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more generally.

23:59:11 mircea_popescu: even stalin was (and roughly stayed) an anarchist.