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Transcript for 14-04-2015, 1418 lines:

00:02:08 mike_c: email checked. thx.

00:06:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.00028813 = 3.7889 BTC [-]

00:30:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00029449 = 4.7266 BTC [+]

00:45:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00029388 = 2.4392 BTC [-] {2}

00:48:55 williamdunne: natmonitor.com/2015/04/12/man-kills-himself-in-front-of-u-s-capitol-building-holding-tax-the-one-percent-sign/

00:49:19 williamdunne: Probably a good use of the bullet

00:50:10 williamdunne: Didn't even do it on the right day

00:50:12 williamdunne: " Lawmakers were not around at the time, as Congress was out of session on spring break. They are expected to reconvene on Monday. "

00:52:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00029449 = 2.3265 BTC [+]

00:56:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00028813 = 3.6881 BTC [-]

01:11:04 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

01:11:31 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/judge-preet-bhararas-brinkmanship-endangers-fair-trials/

01:12:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00028813 = 3.2415 BTC [-]

01:31:06 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... i thought you didn't like perl. << i dislike many things. but ripping out the perl won't put me any closer to victory, so it is $maxint down on the list of things-to-do...

01:36:57 asciilifeform: 'A man holding a sign protesting "social injustice" shot himself in front of the U.S. Capitol Building, causing a brief terrorism scare and a lockdown that has since been lifted. An unidentified man had a sign taped to his hand as well as a backpack and a rolling suitcase, the latter of which caused a bomb investigation, according to a New York Daily News report. The words that were on the sign were not revealed, although thos

01:36:57 asciilifeform: e who saw the sign said it had something to do with taxation. One report indicated that the sign said "tax the one percent," which he appeared to raise shortly before he shot himself. The bomb squad went through his bags as they investigated. They had clothes inside. Bridget Maley was with a friend on a tour of the Capitol when the lockdown happened, she told the NY Daily News, describing the atmosphere as "calm." The tour con

01:36:58 asciilifeform: tinued as usual, and her guide even went so far as to say that a lockdown wasn't an unusual occurrence.'

01:37:01 asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l

01:37:19 asciilifeform: 'Hundreds of people were escorted out through an underground passageway to the Library of Congress. They waited near gift shops and inside a restaurant and were told to walk opposite of the Capitol.'

01:37:38 *: asciilifeform was about two blocks away but an hour or so too late to see these festivities

01:39:46 BingoBoingo: !up DigitalDayTrader

01:43:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00029019 = 4.0917 BTC [+]

01:43:59 asciilifeform: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/avmalgin/6046593/1717911/1717911_original.jpg << puzzle. who is this ?

01:44:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCvG3j )

01:45:22 danielpbarron: clinton?

01:45:26 asciilifeform: aha.

01:52:40 BingoBoingo: Clinton has looked old for a long time

01:53:01 asciilifeform: heil clitler.

01:53:51 BingoBoingo: !b 1

01:53:52 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2F5AP0W.txt )

01:55:10 ben_vulpes: not clintler?

01:55:13 ben_vulpes: or clitter?

01:55:21 asciilifeform: clitler

01:55:29 asciilifeform: (r) al schwartz 199somethingorother

01:55:50 ben_vulpes: ahaa

01:56:38 felipelalli: hi! I have an idea. could you guys please tell me if this is a bad, more or less or good idea?

01:56:44 ben_vulpes: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=392073

01:56:48 assbot: 392073 – Firefox limited to 1 CPU on multi-cpu machine; multi-threading appears broken ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCx6uA )

01:56:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00029336 = 3.0803 BTC [+] {2}

01:56:52 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: i'll gladly shoot you down for the pleasure of it

01:57:13 ben_vulpes: jokes aside, "don't ask to ask, just ask"

01:57:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00029449 = 3.1658 BTC [+]

01:58:40 felipelalli: ahahah thanks ben_vulpes ok, but I think it could be a "book", so I'll write on pastebin and then paste here.

01:58:57 ben_vulpes: brevity is the soul of whatever etc

01:59:14 trinque: wit

02:00:37 asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099925 << do i need to explain what the resurrection of 'key escrow' idiocy from '90s (clinton's! to go right along with the new clinton!) means from the meta-nsa school of thought? or is it already obvious to aficionados

02:00:37 assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 18:47:55; trinque: https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/12/8392769/nsa-front-door-access-encryption-key << "Front door" not "back door"! very comforting

02:01:46 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: generally you'll want to have the thing queued up to fire *before* talking about it

02:01:54 ben_vulpes: i don't edge with strangers

02:02:11 trinque: asciilifeform: at the very least passing something like that legitimizes surveillance as a means to verify compliance with the escrow system

02:02:16 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: sorry ben, my bad. :(

02:02:26 trinque: "well of course we have to watch the wire for terrorists using gpg!"

02:02:32 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I was too excited.

02:02:41 asciilifeform: trinque: nope.

02:02:48 trinque: do tell

02:02:50 ben_vulpes: that's why *you're* supposed to be the one gasping on the brink

02:03:58 asciilifeform: think, why would usg make loud, public farts against 'iPnohe' and other products from usgtronics vendors which remain as porous as ever ?

02:04:37 trinque: asciilifeform: some kind of implication that they're secure *now*?

02:04:53 asciilifeform: algo went as follows: 1) snowden releases (whether one believes they were controlled or spontaneous does not matter for this recipe)

02:05:17 asciilifeform: 2) usg reaction. loud farts, but on psyop front, barrage of faux seeek000r1ty products

02:05:43 asciilifeform: e.g., iPnohe disk crypto, multi-coloured '$colourphones', etc

02:06:16 asciilifeform: 3) was to be the massive uptake by miscreant chumps, 4 - ???, and 5 - the proverbial 'profit!!11!!'

02:06:27 asciilifeform: but for some odd reason (3) did not happen.

02:06:55 felipelalli: ok, I'll try: I'd like to use OTC as a global "blacklist". But it is bad for that because a scammer won't create an account on OTC, or if his reputation is bad, he'll erase it. So we could create a "standard" like for example: br-8d255152 where "br" is the country code ISO and 8d255152 is the first 8 chars of SHA256 of user country document (in Brazil we call CPF and in Australia ID)

02:07:02 asciilifeform: so 4 is now 3, and 3 is now 3) 'ban' crypto

02:07:31 asciilifeform: felipelalli: your idea requires cooperation of known mortal enemies of all things good and bright

02:07:33 asciilifeform: ergo fail.

02:07:49 felipelalli: in this way, anyone could rate scammers and it would be useful for all services like exchanges and everything.

02:08:08 mats: bad. the friction exists in developing the identity, not burning it.

02:08:09 felipelalli: asciilifeform: why this requires cooperation? could you give an example?

02:08:40 asciilifeform: felipelalli: say i'm a scammer. i buy your passport scan from whoever owned 'mtgox' and use your code.

02:08:55 asciilifeform: you complain to $official. he says 'fuck you'

02:09:21 asciilifeform: (if you're lucky. if you're not, he has you shot for the things i did while 'i were you')

02:09:54 trinque: asciilifeform | 3) was to be the massive uptake by miscreant chumps << of the bunk crypto?

02:10:02 asciilifeform: trinque: yes.

02:10:49 asciilifeform: the 'redphone', etc. idiocy was not -planned- as a boondoggle requiring eternal injections of qe-tronium to function.

02:11:15 asciilifeform: it only turned into this because the folks on the subway (yes, it was advertised in d.c. subway!) really did not give half a rat's arse about crypto of -whatever- kind

02:11:38 asciilifeform: (do you know what it costs to advertise in every single car of the d.c. subway?)

02:11:40 trinque: this makes some sense

02:12:04 trinque: how would they pull off "crypto == terrorists" if no one understands the first term

02:12:24 ben_vulpes: provincia pagos sent my reciprocity fee system password in plaintext again

02:12:27 asciilifeform: my hypothesis has the appeal of being... testable.

02:12:34 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: of course plaintext, l0l

02:12:45 ben_vulpes: and i can only be male or female?!

02:12:48 ben_vulpes: what kind of repression is this

02:13:26 trinque: not even multiple choice I wager... the barbarians!

02:13:36 williamdunne: felipelalli: I don't think your idea is that bad, but it would need to be more decentralized and based on WoT. For example asciilifeform might meet you in person and vouch that you are whom you say you are, and that your identity number is: 31231610

02:13:39 ben_vulpes: there was a select field

02:13:59 williamdunne: felipelalli: Its not all that new though, some other people working on something similarish

02:14:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00029449 = 2.8566 BTC [+]

02:14:13 asciilifeform: williamdunne: why rely on objects created by the enemy to use against us ?

02:14:31 asciilifeform: williamdunne: agents of usg can get a passport as legit as yours or mine, ten times every morning before breakfast.

02:14:39 decimation: asciilifeform: snowden could have been 'legitimate' and all of what you listed would also follow

02:14:56 asciilifeform: decimation: i specifically said that it does not matter where snowden came from, for this hypothesis

02:15:25 asciilifeform: decimation: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100279

02:15:25 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:04:53; asciilifeform: algo went as follows: 1) snowden releases (whether one believes they were controlled or spontaneous does not matter for this recipe)

02:15:38 felipelalli: asciilifeform: thank you, good point, but it could be offset with the WoT where the ability to analyze a real document would be taken into account. williamdunne thank you! Nice to hear that! I was thinking about it for days! Do you know who are working on similar standard?

02:15:45 williamdunne: decimation: his point was that they're creating the illusion of security through colourful iphones

02:16:01 decimation: 'they'

02:16:15 asciilifeform: felipelalli: someone who is not a usg agent has no ability whatsoever to verify the legitimacy of any document but that of the most laughable fake

02:16:16 williamdunne: felipelalli: https://github.com/MrChrisJ/World-Citizenship by working on it I mean "thinking about it"

02:16:17 assbot: MrChrisJ/World-Citizenship · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCzGRf )

02:16:51 trinque: asciilifeform: they're going to need a big false flag

02:16:58 williamdunne: felipelalli: read the issue section about making sure each person has but one identity

02:17:06 asciilifeform: so here's what's next per the hypothesis..

02:17:36 williamdunne: felipelalli: Not sure if its a good idea or not at this point, but interesting to think about. Very hard to prove we are the sole instance of ourselves

02:17:44 decimation: in the case of apple, I think it's quite likely they are honestly trying to make things secure, but are about as successful as all other 'tech' firms have been

02:18:03 decimation: compromised as they are by conflicting interests to sell their customers

02:18:16 asciilifeform: as the 'ban' thing unfolds, honeypots like zimmerman's which specifically sell on the point of 'l337 d00dz against nsa' will either a) quietly fade away b) somehow continue in what they presently are, in spite of supposed 'bans'

02:18:22 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what about crypto-signed documents?

02:18:24 trinque: decimation: I doubt US intelligence has zero assets inside apple

02:18:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: signed with what

02:18:35 felipelalli: williamdunne: very nice! thank you.

02:18:49 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: key newed up on airgapped legacy machine

02:19:01 williamdunne: felipelalli: welcome

02:19:15 felipelalli: I know it is not perfect, but it could be useful in some situations. The point is just create that standard.

02:20:06 decimation: asciilifeform: note that zimmerman is largely trading on his rep 'earned' during the 'crypto wars'

02:20:24 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> felipelalli: someone who is not a usg agent has no ability whatsoever to verify the legitimacy of any document but that of the most laughable fake << asciilifeform re

02:20:38 felipelalli: and then "follow the WoT". If MtGox for example rates my "mirror user" br-8d255152 or "U.S. gov" rates that, no one trust them anyway.

02:21:11 trinque: asciilifeform: force ISPs to drop traffic not using a sanctioned key?

02:21:11 trinque: skip hte devices entirely

02:21:23 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: whose key ?

02:21:24 asciilifeform: any connection between the name claimed in the key and the piece of dead tree signed with it, is putative and unverifiable

02:21:25 asciilifeform: and the entire exercise is a mold-a-bullet-from-shit

02:21:46 ben_vulpes: i speak of an ascii blob i receive over whatever channel - is this not a document?

02:22:13 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the original thread concerned traditional identity papers issued by, e.g., usg

02:22:31 ben_vulpes: ah

02:22:34 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: so, supose you are a usg agent and everybody knows your ability, you rate 10 the user br-8d255152, even if that user had 20x -10, I'd trust in your rate. The point is just the standard. The WoT serves as a natural filter.

02:22:35 ben_vulpes: well color me unlogged

02:22:43 asciilifeform: and some bizarre notion of putting them to use in somehow creating trust out of the aether

02:22:58 asciilifeform: felipelalli: problem is that your oracle is a liar

02:23:33 asciilifeform: felipelalli: a usg agent is not a machine for verifying that this piece of paper contains the name my mother gave me. he is a machine for furthering the will of lizard hitler.

02:23:56 asciilifeform: if his reptilian majesty decrees that he should tell you 'no, this fella is a fraud, his real name is mark karpeles' he will do so.

02:23:58 felipelalli: i did not mean "usg agent", replace that by "specialist in documents"

02:24:11 asciilifeform: felipelalli: it isn't 1943

02:24:17 asciilifeform: there is no 'specialist in documents'.

02:24:21 trinque: felipelalli: what's wrong with gpg key as identity?

02:24:26 asciilifeform: there are folks with access to u.s. state dept. db, and folks without.

02:24:36 asciilifeform: and the former divide into folks with write-access, and folks without.

02:25:21 asciilifeform: trinque: this is a valuable thread - to illustrate the absurdity of even considering anything other than key as a reliable identity

02:25:49 asciilifeform: sadly, i suspect that even a thousand threads like this one will not suffice in hammering the point home to the thickest

02:26:21 asciilifeform: just as modern 'fire codes' did not exist until $bigint folks burned in fires inside barricaded garrets, etc

02:28:18 trinque: asciilifeform: hard to grasp how incorrectly one's been taught

02:28:35 asciilifeform: hm?

02:29:29 trinque: say a fool staggers in and he wants to learn; where to even begin?

02:30:02 trinque: meaning no offense to felipelalli, he seems to not realize that his reverence for said govt official who names and numbers the people is a mystical belief

02:30:09 asciilifeform: reading the logs; reading sites such as mircea_popescu's; same as you and i did

02:31:20 *: trinque nods

02:31:58 felipelalli: trinque: I do not believe in any gov official. I am voluntaryist.

02:32:19 felipelalli: trinque: the "doc number" is just a way to identify a user globally, but could be another thing.

02:32:20 asciilifeform: felipelalli: so who issues the passports you were suggesting making use of ? god ?

02:32:24 danielpbarron: !s voluntaryism

02:32:25 assbot: 0 results for 'voluntaryism' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=voluntaryism

02:32:31 trinque: felipelalli: an observation about myself: cleaning out a headfull of shit takes time.

02:32:50 asciilifeform: !s martian bank

02:32:51 assbot: 4 results for 'martian bank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=martian+bank

02:33:03 felipelalli: trinque: a "mirror derivated user" like br-8d255152 (deriveted from my doc) would be useful only as "INPUT". There is no output from br-8d255152. This is useful for make a blacklist of scammers that don't use OTC. It could be derivated from my full name, for example: "Felipe Micaroni Lalli"= br-89402f8d

02:33:44 asciilifeform: felipelalli: one not-inaccurate way to think about 'cipherpunkian' systems such as bitcoin or wot is as attempts to emulate a kind of incorruptible god

02:35:20 trinque: felipelalli: so then I lie about my name when I deal with you

02:35:23 asciilifeform: felipelalli: is it unclear to you why i have no reason whatsoever to add or subtract to my belief that this is your name, from hearing this ?

02:35:36 trinque: or whatever inputs create that identity hash thing

02:35:48 felipelalli: trinque: yes, this is the fail asciilifeformci rises with reason.

02:36:06 asciilifeform: felipelalli is still labouring under the burden of his old religion.

02:36:20 trinque: ^ what I put as the headful of shit

02:36:33 trinque: not easy to clean; going to need the powerful stuff

02:36:46 asciilifeform: if it were 1415, i say 'my name is xxxx' and 'name' in your head -means- 'what my new friend calls himself'

02:37:07 felipelalli: asciilifeform: ahaha no, that is not the point. Maybe you didn't understand my initial motivation for that.

02:37:09 asciilifeform: whereas today it means, to many, 'what he is called by usg'

02:37:15 felipelalli: asciilifeform: you didn't understand because I didn't say.

02:38:04 asciilifeform: felipelalli: you are labouring under the presumption that the ultimate arbiter of truth is that piece of paper

02:38:17 asciilifeform: if only it could somehow be gotten to in a 'fair' way, etc

02:38:18 asciilifeform: no?

02:38:57 williamdunne: asciilifeform: I think he is really just looking for a way to make sure that each person only carries one identity, and the best way he can think of is a passport

02:39:52 felipelalli: williamdunne: yes!

02:39:56 felipelalli: the only flaw in this idea is that there is no reliable way to identify someone only. I understand that. But if there were, could be very useful to create blacklists. Especially in Brazil where there are many scammers that exposes all of your personal life, and we know their real names, their documents etc.

02:39:58 trinque: impossible

02:40:36 trinque: felipelalli: the tool to apply is a WoT, but you can't force people to identify only once

02:40:47 williamdunne: It should be possible to make it more expensive to do so

02:41:04 felipelalli: can be impossible, indeed. I didn't mature the idea. Maybe it is true: it could be impossible.

02:41:12 trinque: it's akin to hoping no one ever lies again

02:41:54 trinque: the incentive to use one identity is that your cred builds upon that name

02:42:18 trinque: also should people find you using many alternate IDs, they can negrate all of them knowing this

02:42:29 trinque: it's social behavior that shouldn't be policed centrally.

02:42:35 asciilifeform: felipelalli, williamdunne: fella who stole, e.g., 'mtgox' db can do anything the 'legit' passport owners could do.

02:42:38 asciilifeform: ergo - checkmate.

02:42:48 asciilifeform: the idea is a crock of shit at the most fundamental possible level.

02:42:58 asciilifeform: it is, to use the ancient term of art, 'fractally wrong'

02:43:04 williamdunne: asciilifeform: hence my idea of doing in person verifications with people vouching for who you are

02:43:32 asciilifeform: williamdunne: no one can verify a u.s. passport (the folks who can - won't. because they are our enemies.)

02:43:42 trinque: williamdunne: who verifies?

02:43:45 trinque: who stores this data

02:43:46 asciilifeform: ditto any other passport or traditional document of identity.

02:44:06 decimation: note that historically passports were used to keep people from leaving

02:44:08 williamdunne: Who verifies the WoT? You just ignore those you don't trust

02:44:22 trinque: what's the point of the ID verification aside from gpg and the wot?

02:44:39 trinque: your connections on the wot and your ratings, and your pubkey *are* you

02:44:53 williamdunne: trinque: The idea is that people can do reputation exit-scams because they can just move on to new idents

02:45:01 williamdunne: I'm not saying its a good idea, I just think its interesting as an idea

02:45:14 trinque: and as they are found out they are buried in negrate

02:45:25 williamdunne: Indeed, but they move on

02:45:30 williamdunne: This is about stopping them from moving on

02:45:36 trinque: maybe someday you must maintain over a certain rating to deal in certain spheres of influence

02:45:43 asciilifeform: williamdunne: Who verifies the WoT? << no one but -you-, the user. and your experiences.

02:45:55 williamdunne: asciilifeform: That was the point I made;)

02:46:01 asciilifeform: this entire thread concerns something as ill-conceived as perpetuum mobile

02:46:04 trinque: there are societal benefits to maintaining good rating

02:46:08 asciilifeform: which attempts to extract energy from nothing

02:46:17 trinque: I mean... this is no different than life

02:46:21 asciilifeform: in much the same way, you cannot extract trustworthiness from the aether

02:46:22 trinque: *life without a WoT

02:46:28 felipelalli: asciilifeform: I am convinced the idea is broken at the point where you can not identify someone accurately. This could easily lead to injustice. But I will try more mature the idea. williamdunne raises a good point: if you follow the WoT, maybe someone is "good" or "trustful" to identify others.

02:46:30 trinque: the wot just makes it quantified

02:46:55 trinque: if I take a big shit in every business deal I'm ever a part of, I'll either outsmart everyone and win, or the shit's going to catch up to me

02:47:20 trinque: neither wots, cops or gods can prevent the former, and the latter's easier to do with a WoT

02:48:12 decimation: felipelalli: who spoke of justice?

02:48:26 decimation: what's a jury trial other than having your wot judge your actions?

02:48:57 decimation: or at least, the facts

02:48:59 williamdunne: A group of people you don't know without the full information deciding whether or not to lock you in a cage?

02:49:15 decimation: who else?

02:49:23 decimation: some distant bureaucrat?

02:49:28 williamdunne: The judge, the jury, and the exucutioner

02:50:01 felipelalli: decimation: I said injustice in the meaning of someone uses a fake ID to blacklist someone unduly, just that.

02:50:20 decimation: felipelalli: that's a fact for a jury to decide upon

02:50:38 felipelalli: well, thanks asciilifeform trinque decimation and williamdunne - I have to go take my wife, bye!

02:50:44 decimation: good evening

02:50:55 williamdunne: felipelalli: enjoy

02:51:00 trinque: felipelalli: have a nice eve

02:51:05 felipelalli: :)

02:51:30 decimation: williamdunne: exactly, presumably the point of the jury was that they were able to judge the credibility of the witnesses because they knew them

02:57:00 decimation: as 'la wik' says: "Medieval juries were self-informing, in that individuals were chosen as jurors because they either knew the parties and the facts, or they had the duty to discover them. This spared the government the cost of fact-finding" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_trial#cite_ref-14

02:57:01 assbot: Jury trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1O8DKdp )

02:57:55 asciilifeform: medieval juries also did not concern themselves with day-to-day idiocies.

02:58:53 decimation: nope. as the magna carta says: "For a trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood. In the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a husbandman the implements of his husbandry, if they fall upon the mercy of a royal court. None of these fines shall be imposed except by the

02:58:55 decimation: assessment on oath of reputable men of the neighbourhood."

02:59:00 decimation: ^wot

02:59:02 trinque: makes me think of assembling someone's L1 to judge him someday

02:59:29 trinque: decimation: now they deprive you of your livelihood before you ever reach the courthouse

02:59:35 trinque: progress!

03:02:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00029457 = 4.7426 BTC [+] {3}

03:09:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15942 @ 0.00029732 = 4.7399 BTC [+] {2}

03:10:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9908 @ 0.00030098 = 2.9821 BTC [+]

03:11:17 williamdunne: But they don't just deprive you of your livelihood, they also strip you of your reputation and in many cases remove your ability to defend it.

03:12:55 decimation: and then they steal your "you were stole from"

03:24:30 felipelalli: asciilifeform: in the car I was thinking about a solution and I think I found it: what if the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation:

03:25:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00028949 = 7.5846 BTC [-] {2}

03:26:01 mats: plz don't

03:26:21 felipelalli: ok, forget it.

03:28:45 mats: http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-tale-of-two-exploits.html

03:28:47 assbot: Project Zero: A Tale of Two Exploits ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYQOR3 )

03:29:09 trinque: felipelalli: the WoT *is* the social network

03:29:14 trinque: think about it.

03:29:48 felipelalli: trinque: I know that. I am trying to convince the Brazilian community move to here, but it is being hard. The main community is still on Facebook.

03:30:00 mats: interfacing the real WoT with some federated, poorly implemented imitation is a recipe for disaster

03:30:28 mats: the br community doesn't deserve or want to be here, so don't bother

03:32:46 asciilifeform: what if the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation: << what if the 'derivated mirror food' was just a turd from the local public toilet, with spices such as mustard or ketchup? Before strike me, let me explain...

03:33:22 felipelalli: asciilifeform: ok :)

03:36:02 felipelalli: but it would be at least funny. I'd rate the president of Brazil, the "mirror" user "twitter-dilmabr" as -10 as "scammer!" for example.

03:36:24 decimation: felipelalli: understand that the 'us community' doesn't 'move to here' either

03:36:31 mats: http://news.osu.edu/news/2015/04/13/emotion-reliever/ via /.

03:36:32 assbot: Your pain reliever may also be diminishing your joy | News Room - The Ohio State University ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYRPbU )

03:37:34 felipelalli: decimation: you're right. But would be so cool and useful if I really could use WoT to things in day to day and not only in dreams.

03:37:58 trinque: that world may never have everyone in the WoT

03:38:13 trinque: and who cares?

03:38:18 felipelalli: trinque: not everyone, but at least the important people to me.

03:38:33 decimation: felipelalli: you have a wot not

03:38:35 decimation: now

03:38:43 decimation: you just haven't formalized it with crypto

03:38:54 felipelalli: decimation: yes, but no ones really knows me personally.

03:39:04 felipelalli: ah!

03:39:06 decimation: I mean, your friends in the flesh

03:39:13 felipelalli: yes, you say "WoT of real life" :)

03:39:19 trinque: felipelalli: if you want to say something about your president, put it in the deedbot

03:39:49 trinque: the point when saying something about a person of obvious identity is identifying the *author*, not him

03:39:56 asciilifeform: methinks felipelalli is expressing the traditional frustration of the 3 to 6 month n00b to #b-a:

03:39:58 trinque: everybody can easily find out who you mean

03:40:11 trinque: asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for the majority of the time I first spent here

03:40:15 asciilifeform: that is: not being able to move to the flying sand castle quite yet.

03:40:56 felipelalli: trinque: it's true! deedbot solves the blacklist problem, I think.

03:41:15 asciilifeform: hydrogen can lift around 1 g / 1 L.

03:41:18 williamdunne: trinque: I was mindfucked for the past 12 months or so, but I didn't dive in and read blogs etc first

03:41:27 trinque: felipelalli: "this guy that uses these handles scammed me; here's the transaction on the blockchain, blah blah"

03:41:32 asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu's atomic dirigible has not very much room for friends

03:41:36 trinque: here's correspondance

03:41:48 asciilifeform: (if you want to be considered, my understanding is - be young and female)

03:41:50 asciilifeform: (TM)

03:41:57 trinque: I'll take a bunker

03:42:06 trinque: with some old laptops and cans of beans

03:42:21 asciilifeform: i'll take a tomb

03:42:30 asciilifeform: (counts as bunker? doesn't need laptop, l0l)

03:42:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00028813 = 7.3185 BTC [-]

03:42:56 trinque: asciilifeform: sure to be unpestered there, until the graveyard is paved

03:45:19 asciilifeform: in other, unrelated news,

03:45:27 asciilifeform: the house across from mine, was emptied by burglars last night.

03:46:03 decimation: were the criminals unknown to the victims?

03:46:20 asciilifeform: idk

03:46:54 trinque: guns, get 'em, love 'em

03:47:04 trinque: I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone here that

03:47:04 asciilifeform: burgle'em ?

03:47:16 trinque: nah bungle the burgle

03:47:21 decimation: eh, I'm not sure guns are the answer

03:47:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00028733 = 5.488 BTC [-] {2}

03:47:47 decimation: ultimately the answer is: don't live where the democratic police are in power

03:48:03 decimation: and I mean small 'd'

03:48:11 trinque: I think it's essential to know how to operate weapons no matter who is in power

03:48:19 *: trinque is off for a bit

03:50:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00030098 = 1.1588 BTC [+]

03:52:10 asciilifeform: http://i.imgur.com/EP3wwzA.jpg << policeman who told about this.

03:52:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYTTR1 )

03:53:01 asciilifeform: mentioned that 'computers were stolen, no sign of break-in, perhaps insider'

03:54:56 asciilifeform: trinque: we have (for the most part) burglars here, rather than robbers. they wait until owner is out.

03:55:04 williamdunne: asciilifeform: I saw you tear the Entropy apart a-while-back, did they fix your main concerns?

03:55:10 asciilifeform: ?

03:55:23 williamdunne: !s mycelium

03:55:24 assbot: 62 results for 'mycelium' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mycelium

03:55:34 asciilifeform: i neither expect a 'fix', nor give a damn

03:56:04 asciilifeform: when using serious crypto, i employ only rng constructed personally

03:56:34 asciilifeform: (it will be made available to others, in due time.)

03:56:36 asciilifeform: !s s.nsa

03:56:37 assbot: 388 results for 's.nsa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=s.nsa

03:56:55 asciilifeform: several other folks here also use rng of own design and/or construction.

03:57:30 williamdunne: Oh sure, I'm definitely looking forward to your product - but also like paper wallets

03:57:46 asciilifeform: williamdunne: in case this was not clear - i do not design or build bitcoin wallets.

03:57:59 williamdunne: Yes I know

03:58:11 williamdunne: s.nsa is doing the USB GPG tool, correct?

03:58:16 asciilifeform: among other items

03:59:59 ben_vulpes: <trinque> asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for the majority of the time I first spent here << heh i remember this

04:00:03 asciilifeform: incidentally, now is the time when i say, to interested readers, that i do not presently consider myself qualified to build a bitcoin 'wallet.' not because i do not understand how they must work at least as well as anyone else - but because of the 'skin in the game' problem.

04:00:18 asciilifeform: i cannot personally jump with that particular parachute from any kind of meaningful height

04:00:28 asciilifeform: if had serious coin - a different matter.

04:01:23 asciilifeform: just as i will not undertake to build a space suit.

04:01:35 asciilifeform: (who will take my space suit seriously, and why)

04:01:45 ben_vulpes: who takes satoshi's?

04:01:57 asciilifeform: satoshi got to drop his from ufo

04:02:02 asciilifeform: no one else gets to do this.

04:02:12 decimation: asciilifeform: well I would give the cop credit, at least he knocked on door and said something

04:02:21 asciilifeform: decimation: it is traditional in these parts

04:02:28 asciilifeform: for a burglary to be proclaimed in this way.

04:04:10 decimation: asciilifeform: one problem with renting is that it is difficult to modify the house for security systems

04:04:23 ben_vulpes: chetty: can i get a favor from you in exchange?

04:04:42 asciilifeform: decimation: very easy, actually, but most contracts around here demand that you give 'improvements' to the landlord for free

04:05:06 asciilifeform: which is to say, if you build a $widget into the house and then tear it out, and leave holes, he can charge you a nominal cost of cement for the holes.

04:05:54 asciilifeform: the fella i'm renting from now, lives on opposite end of continent, and never comes here. he will only bill for holes etc. if next tenant complains about them

04:06:18 decimation: heh sounds reasonable

04:06:20 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty i'd be much obliged if you could procure me a phone and a sim - the cheapest that makes and receives calls will be more than adequate

04:06:20 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:06:36 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty no obligation though, i'm still bringing your seaweed

04:06:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:07:05 asciilifeform: l0l, why ben_vulpes even needs a phone

04:07:20 ben_vulpes: have you no imagination, man?

04:07:43 *: asciilifeform brought phone last time, did not use for anything useful

04:07:57 asciilifeform: friends were right in the airport, waving

04:08:26 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: confirmed for imaginationless except in regards to his own means of death

04:08:35 asciilifeform: eh can imagine.

04:08:42 asciilifeform: but l0lz

04:09:41 *: asciilifeform to pet: 'if i go to the bottom of the sea, push this button...'

04:11:11 ben_vulpes: surely not the self destruct under the boulder trap...

04:12:45 decimation: no, it's behind the fake rock

04:13:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00030098 = 1.0233 BTC [+]

04:13:07 williamdunne: Mine is behind a hard place

04:28:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14496 @ 0.00029528 = 4.2804 BTC [-]

04:52:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00029405 = 1.6761 BTC [-]

05:05:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14460 @ 0.00030068 = 4.3478 BTC [+] {2}

05:19:14 pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2015/04/olivier-janssens-bitcoin-floundation-out-of-money-hates-transparency/#comment-18066 << for those interested in following the latest victim of my and mp's vitriol.

05:19:14 assbot: Olivier Janssens: Bitcoin Floundation Out Of Money, Hates Transparency | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1CIWbii )

05:19:55 pete_dushenski: http://www.timesofisrael.com/is-supporters-post-cartoon-depicting-obama-beheading/ << and it looks like isis beat la serenissima to the punch!

05:19:56 assbot: IS supporters post cartoon depicting Obama beheading | The Times of Israel ... ( http://bit.ly/1CIWhXg )

05:20:37 pete_dushenski: though isis calls him 'the mule of the jooz'

05:21:52 pete_dushenski: which, if he's the mule of socialism, and of the braindamaged jewry extant after that most abysmal intellectual 'cleansing', i can sorta see it

05:23:37 pete_dushenski: 'jooz' having lost its former lustre in this case, however, and now being a synonym for idiotic equalitarians.

05:24:05 pete_dushenski: no more does the term mean 'cultured' or 'worldly' it seems

05:25:47 pete_dushenski: or mebbe it never did, at least not for the less refined desert tribes.

05:45:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00029405 = 3.8962 BTC [-]

05:57:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00028693 = 3.3858 BTC [-]

06:02:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20594 @ 0.00028765 = 5.9239 BTC [+] {2}

06:16:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00028693 = 7.0872 BTC [-]

06:38:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00028696 = 3.0475 BTC [+] {2}

07:05:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00028693 = 6.7285 BTC [-]

07:32:21 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

07:33:34 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

07:35:26 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/fenton-replaces-murck-as-vessenes-foundation-pivots-again/

07:35:27 assbot: Fenton Replaces Murck as Vessenes Foundation Pivots Again | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FEjpIA )

07:35:27 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/fenton-replaces-murck-as-vessenes-foundation-pivots-again/

07:39:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9938 @ 0.00029283 = 2.9101 BTC [+]

08:10:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00029283 = 2.3134 BTC [+]

08:24:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00029386 = 3.6733 BTC [+] {2}

08:32:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9537 @ 0.00028693 = 2.7365 BTC [-]

08:46:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8841 @ 0.00028693 = 2.5367 BTC [-]

08:57:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24420 @ 0.00029502 = 7.2044 BTC [+] {2}

09:19:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9112 @ 0.00028693 = 2.6145 BTC [-]

09:22:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00028693 = 4.347 BTC [-]

09:26:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100257 << threading is apparently hard.

09:26:17 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 01:56:44; ben_vulpes: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=392073

09:26:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100266 << no, it's obvious. it's also obvious that they're not getting it.

09:26:52 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:00:37; asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099925 << do i need to explain what the resurrection of 'key escrow' idiocy from '90s (clinton's! to go right along with the new clinton!) means from the meta-nsa school of thought? or is it already obvious to aficionados

09:27:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/04/judge-preet-bhararas-brinkmanship-endangers-fair-trials/ << i lold.

09:27:17 assbot: Judge: Preet Bharara's Brinkmanship Endangers Fair Trials | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1CTrirY )

09:28:06 mircea_popescu: "In this case, the U.S. Attorney, while castigating politicians in Albany for playing fast and loose with the ethical rules that govern their conduct, strayed so close to the edge of the rules governing his own conduct that Defendant Sheldon Silver has a non-frivolous argument that he fell over the edge to the Defendant?s prejudice."

09:31:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100283 << the odd reason being that the whole fucking plan was stupid to begin with ? it relied on the insane theory that everyone's the intellectual captive of the usg dreamsilk.

09:31:37 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:06:27; asciilifeform: but for some odd reason (3) did not happen.

09:31:55 mircea_popescu: meanwhile : the people who are competent never cared what the usg was putting out, and have and use functional solutions that don't involve it.

09:32:16 mircea_popescu: the people who are incompetent also never cared what the usg was putting out, and have and use convenient solutions that mostly also don't involve it

09:32:20 mircea_popescu: (generally - doing nothing).

09:33:11 mircea_popescu: usg went in the middle and lost, there being no middle. but this is funny, psychologically, because : all socialisms always live by fleecing the middle class. for all the verbiage, it's the "kulak" that supported the soviets, not the filthy rich capitalist dudes.

09:33:38 mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that as the socialism progresses, the middle class dies out. because socialism is societal cancer, it just burns the fat and dies.

09:33:58 mircea_popescu: but, amusingly, no socialism to date, no matter it's (always on, anyway) claims to sophistication EVER realised that hte middle is finite.

09:34:00 mircea_popescu: and so...

09:35:47 mircea_popescu: "nobody on easter island realised that if we cut down all the trees on easter island there won't be anyting left, on easter island".

09:36:15 mircea_popescu: and yes, sucks for the remnant of teh middle class, obviously. which, i suppose, is a good summary of a large chunk of "what to do" discussions here.

09:39:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100288 << you completely misunderstand what this wot thing is.

09:39:00 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:07:49; felipelalli: in this way, anyone could rate scammers and it would be useful for all services like exchanges and everything.

09:40:06 mircea_popescu: blockexplorer.com : ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.)

09:40:15 mircea_popescu: and blockchain.info is also not coming up for me

09:40:25 mircea_popescu: ;;isup blockchain.info

09:40:28 gribble: blockchain.info is up

09:40:30 mircea_popescu: hm.

09:41:08 mircea_popescu: "Maximum concurrent requests for this endpoint reached. Please try again shortly."

09:41:12 mircea_popescu: does not really count as up

09:43:14 williamdunne: ;;isup blockr.io

09:43:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100298 << you mean, what'd they defraud you out of ? or what it actually costs ?

09:43:15 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:11:38; asciilifeform: (do you know what it costs to advertise in every single car of the d.c. subway?)

09:43:15 gribble: blockr.io is up

09:43:20 williamdunne: That one is pretty good

09:43:23 mircea_popescu: it actually costs like 50 bux

09:44:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100301 << duh.

09:44:53 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:12:24; ben_vulpes: provincia pagos sent my reciprocity fee system password in plaintext again

09:46:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100317 << there is no such thing as a "real" document. the reason it's a document in the first palce is BECAUSE ITS NOT REAL. it's a convention!

09:46:05 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:15:38; felipelalli: asciilifeform: thank you, good point, but it could be offset with the WoT where the ability to analyze a real document would be taken into account. williamdunne thank you! Nice to hear that! I was thinking about it for days! Do you know who are working on similar standard?

09:46:20 mircea_popescu: conventions between you and X may matter, to you, to X, to people who know you, or X, or both.

09:46:37 mircea_popescu: declarations of pretenders to sovereignity like the brazilian government matter... to it. not to me.

09:47:06 mircea_popescu: it can make all the passports it wants, ima credit someone on the basis of that as much as i'd credit someone presenting a reader's digest letter.

09:48:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100326 << actually trivial.

09:48:32 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:17:36; williamdunne: felipelalli: Not sure if its a good idea or not at this point, but interesting to think about. Very hard to prove we are the sole instance of ourselves

09:48:54 williamdunne: How would you go about it?

09:49:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100329 << yeah, because mysteriously o'brien is where you go for the supersikrit goldstein biography. logic.

09:49:10 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:18:16; asciilifeform: as the 'ban' thing unfolds, honeypots like zimmerman's which specifically sell on the point of 'l337 d00dz against nsa' will either a) quietly fade away b) somehow continue in what they presently are, in spite of supposed 'bans'

09:49:15 mircea_popescu: williamdunne make a gpg signature.

09:49:44 williamdunne: While I understand the point you're trying to make, I don't think that was the answer he was looking for

09:50:12 williamdunne: He meant one set of hands, not one identity

09:50:20 mircea_popescu: he wasn't looking for any answer. he was trying to shoehorn disorganised remains of broken history into the future. as he keeps trying to do this he'll figure it out.

09:50:46 williamdunne: Sure, and I think he discovered that from the conversation

09:50:59 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's easy to maintain sole access over an identity, and pointless to discuss whether that is your only identity.

09:51:21 mircea_popescu: obviously it wouldn't be. if you're a waiter and you get married now you're a waiter and a husband. big whoop.

09:52:35 mircea_popescu: the idea that you even care about "alt identities" is pure totalitarianism, about on the level of a "forum mod" trying to "enforce forum rules" with "bans". rank nonsense. the way it goes is the other way : only let people in that have a business in.

09:52:46 mircea_popescu: the insanity of the aol internet turned all sense on its head.

09:54:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100337 << my face dropped when i read some piece of his (a year or two before becoming a speaking head for the govt) when he was going "oh, i lost my original pgp key long ago, it's too hard to use hurr durr"

09:54:08 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:20:06; decimation: asciilifeform: note that zimmerman is largely trading on his rep 'earned' during the 'crypto wars'

09:56:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100361 << i would be really scared if one day i woke up in a world where "everyone" understood anything. even the most minute, basic point.

09:56:33 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:25:49; asciilifeform: sadly, i suspect that even a thousand threads like this one will not suffice in hammering the point home to the thickest

09:57:02 mircea_popescu: then i'd throw up, likely, because fucking hell now i have to reconsider the "no universal human quality" pillar of thought.

09:57:21 mircea_popescu: i want to reconsider that about as much as windows user wants to compile from source.

10:00:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100378 << morally neutral god of all knowledge ? interesting, incidentally, that the price the various jewish groups (including xtians) had to pay for the "church-state" frankenstein was overloading the correct notion of god with the notion of a "correct" god. only once god knew all AND GAVE A SHIT ABOUT THE KING'S WILL was there to be mandatory churchgoing and burning of

10:00:54 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:33:44; asciilifeform: felipelalli: one not-inaccurate way to think about 'cipherpunkian' systems such as bitcoin or wot is as attempts to emulate a kind of incorruptible god

10:00:54 mircea_popescu: native huts.

10:03:10 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

10:03:14 gribble: Current Blocks: 352078 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 721 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48453653786.5 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.0077

10:03:45 mircea_popescu: oook there's some massive forkage going on

10:04:03 mircea_popescu: i see 352078 on some systems

10:04:50 mats: o.O

10:04:59 mircea_popescu: ah nm. i misread "next diff" block lol

10:06:16 mircea_popescu: still, the mempool is split or something.

10:07:42 mircea_popescu: i see subsets of dozens of otherwise well connected nodes not knowing of txn back and forth

10:08:31 mircea_popescu: actually, it seems to be resolving. that was a very spooky 5 minutes up there.

10:16:42 mircea_popescu: " Especially in Brazil where there are many scammers that exposes all of your personal life, and we know their real names, their documents etc." << aaaand this isn't indication that it really doesn't work ?

10:17:05 mircea_popescu: i mean i get it, this has become the surogate closure for the internet horde, "o no, here is his real name". mmmkay...

10:18:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100418 << if this works, the reputation was incorrectly trusted.

10:18:55 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:45:01; williamdunne: I'm not saying its a good idea, I just think its interesting as an idea

10:19:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100422 << yeah. that day being 2013 or w/e b-a went to +m eh.

10:19:30 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:45:36; trinque: maybe someday you must maintain over a certain rating to deal in certain spheres of influence

10:21:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100429 << quite. i suppose the trust <=> energy analogy is pretty good. trust is also in a very similar relation to sound money, ie, sure "people" (subhumans, really) can "create trust out of nothing". this is about as relevant to actual trust as freshly printed usd are to money.

10:21:24 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:46:21; asciilifeform: in much the same way, you cannot extract trustworthiness from the aether

10:22:11 mircea_popescu: in fact, the ability of a user to create pseudo-trust out of nothing, just like the "ability" of a perpetuum mobile to extract energy out of the void, just like the "ability" of a government to print money are the same thing, really : the degrading macula of subhumanity.

10:23:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100436 "jury of peers" eh. myeah.

10:23:36 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:48:26; decimation: what's a jury trial other than having your wot judge your actions?

10:24:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100440 << amusingly enough in japan jury trials were (and perhaps still to some degree are) very dimly regarded. people thought that someone willing to cast his fortune on the disinterested call of a dozen uninformed people rather than have a specialist handle it could not possibly have any sort of case.

10:24:48 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:49:23; decimation: some distant bureaucrat?

10:25:03 mircea_popescu: "the only reason you want the jury is because you hope to trick it with things a judge wouldn't fall for."

10:29:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100452 << they were also how salem witch trials happened. actually, their reliable idiocy is why no noble would have EVER considered either submitting to such a jury, or condemning another noble.

10:29:47 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:57:55; asciilifeform: medieval juries also did not concern themselves with day-to-day idiocies.

10:30:33 chetty: one of the good reasons for jury hasn't really been used ...nullification of bad law

10:30:49 mircea_popescu: actually the only useful function of a jury these days.

10:31:05 mircea_popescu: but see, the same people who can't be bothered to crypto anything... can't be bothered to nullify anything either. too much work.

10:31:46 mircea_popescu: and for that matter, imagine how the place looked after ows was done with it ? all the discarded packaging etc ? this was supposedly a group of civically-minded folks.

10:32:00 mircea_popescu: "tax the rich so you can clean up the mess we made! of this sidewalk and of our lives!"

10:32:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00030098 = 3.0399 BTC [+]

10:33:12 williamdunne: not to mention that the jury almost always considers law over morality

10:34:12 mircea_popescu: sadly.

10:34:19 mircea_popescu: but hey, it's emotionally cheaper for them.

10:34:37 williamdunne: It would be tragic if they had to do some thinking

10:34:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100467 << your motivations do not matter. not in this case, not in any other case.

10:34:39 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:26:21; felipelalli: ok, forget it.

10:35:21 mircea_popescu: williamdunne yes, it would be. it'd make it possible to be wrong, and then guilty. which is the main reason the law as a construct even exists : save people that.

10:36:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100472 << well when you're done with that would you please move on to convincing ugly women to be beautiful instead ?

10:36:08 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:29:48; felipelalli: trinque: I know that. I am trying to convince the Brazilian community move to here, but it is being hard. The main community is still on Facebook.

10:36:25 mircea_popescu: i like the way this guy selects tasks for himself.

10:39:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100481 << the solution is probably to move your day-to-day.

10:39:57 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:37:34; felipelalli: decimation: you're right. But would be so cool and useful if I really could use WoT to things in day to day and not only in dreams.

10:40:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100488 << well, come to the conference next year, some people will know you.

10:40:28 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:38:54; felipelalli: decimation: yes, but no ones really knows me personally.

10:41:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100494 << hehe yep totally.

10:41:17 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:39:56; asciilifeform: methinks felipelalli is expressing the traditional frustration of the 3 to 6 month n00b to #b-a:

10:41:28 mircea_popescu: but i must say he's like the cutest one to date.

10:44:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100504 << looky here, I have no doubt i could probably pass some "new bitcoin country" real estate scam or other. i do not wish to. this, deliberately, and upon consideration, and against what random idiot may interpret as my patrimonial interest.

10:44:00 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:41:48; asciilifeform: (if you want to be considered, my understanding is - be young and female)

10:44:27 mircea_popescu: i am simply not interested in that sort of centralisation. i also think it's stupid, and self-defeating, and in no way different from you know, making gossipd on windows vista.

10:44:58 mircea_popescu: yes, i may consider young females for education, but that is neither here nor there. i did that before bitcoin, for that matter.

10:50:29 mircea_popescu: since mats brought it up : yeah, currently people can't audit bitbet's reserves. this is unfortunate, but i'm not going to do anything about it.

10:50:52 mircea_popescu: auditing in bitcoin works like it works - sorta halfway.

10:52:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00029027 = 3.3526 BTC [-]

10:54:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100530 << on which line, trinque you'd seriously shoot a burglar ? and i don't mean shoot them in the head, just, one to the kneecap for good measure. seems to me woefully excessive. the... only time i was in a situation of that nature the dudes beat the shit out of the guy and i thought it was excessive even for the time and place.

10:54:05 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:54:56; asciilifeform: trinque: we have (for the most part) burglars here, rather than robbers. they wait until owner is out.

10:57:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100564 << you want it, you got it. vip treatment beotch!!1

10:57:38 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 04:06:20; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty i'd be much obliged if you could procure me a phone and a sim - the cheapest that makes and receives calls will be more than adequate

10:58:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100572 << bwhahaha.

10:58:45 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 04:08:26; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: confirmed for imaginationless except in regards to his own means of death

10:59:03 mircea_popescu: alf : he just wants to hook up with local whores from the convenience of his own home. internets ftw!

11:00:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100585 << but obama's main selling point is that he's tall and hansome. why ruin a beautiful thing ?

11:00:07 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 05:19:55; pete_dushenski: http://www.timesofisrael.com/is-supporters-post-cartoon-depicting-obama-beheading/ << and it looks like isis beat la serenissima to the punch!

11:01:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100590 << im not aware at any point the term meant cultured or wordly for anyone. perhaps as an insider thing, like people in daytime tv drama for young women seem to think this about themselves ?

11:01:55 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 05:24:05; pete_dushenski: no more does the term mean 'cultured' or 'worldly' it seems

11:11:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.0002912 = 6.7122 BTC [+] {2}

11:19:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00029426 = 2.5601 BTC [+] {2}

11:32:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7698 @ 0.00030098 = 2.3169 BTC [+]

11:59:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00030098 = 1.6704 BTC [+]

12:26:05 mats: 6:50:29 <+mircea_popescu> since mats brought it up : yeah, currently people can't audit bitbet's reserves. this is unfortunate, but i'm not going to do anything about it. << i was going a bit crazy auditing the code, thought id bungled it somehow

12:26:44 mircea_popescu: nah you're fine, kako verified it. from what can be seen publicly bitbet is short like 400 btc.

12:26:51 mircea_popescu: this is not actually true, but hey.

12:27:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9164 @ 0.00028733 = 2.6331 BTC [-]

12:30:43 nubbins`: asciilifeform:mentioned that 'computers were stolen, no sign of break-in, perhaps insider' <<< alf, the lizards struck the wrong house! did you replace your locks?

12:32:31 nubbins`: mircea_popescu:i want to reconsider that about as much as windows user wants to compile from source. <<< i recall hearty lels when whatever chunk of windows source code came out

12:32:45 mircea_popescu: mhm

12:32:57 nubbins`: there was one comment in the code for notepad.exe: /* is this even supposed to be here? */

12:33:06 nubbins`: my sides

12:33:47 nubbins`: 30 years in the wild and the source code says "should this bit be here?"

12:34:24 nubbins`: mircea_popescu:he wasn't looking for any answer. he was trying to shoehorn disorganised remains of broken history into the future. as he keeps trying to do this he'll figure it out. <<< "you can't bribe the future with nostalgia"

12:35:02 mircea_popescu: hehe

12:35:04 nubbins`: <felipelalli> (general lels) <<< it's okay, you're still new

12:38:23 nubbins`: http://www.womenscryptoassociation.com/leadership/

12:38:24 assbot: Founding Members | Women's Crypto Association ... ( http://bit.ly/1aqRItP )

12:38:37 nubbins`: my goodness, another gallippi

12:39:57 nubbins`: http://www.womenscryptoassociation.com/staff-member/tatiana-moroz/

12:39:59 assbot: Tatiana Moroz | Women's Crypto Association ... ( http://bit.ly/1aqS0RE )

12:40:11 nubbins`: i clicked on that one so i could chuckle about why she's randomly holding a guitar

12:40:19 nubbins`: turns out i guess she can play it, but dat bio

12:41:02 nubbins`: i had to make sure i wasn't on womensguitarassociation.com

12:41:29 nubbins`: "Her latest projects consist of the creation of Tatiana Coin, the first ever artist cryptocurrency" WHAT ABOUT COINYE WEST?!

12:41:32 mircea_popescu: well as long as it's an association

12:41:33 mircea_popescu: right ?

12:42:10 mircea_popescu: low level scamming, "i'ma call this empty jar MONEY and wait for idiots to deposit".

12:42:29 nubbins`: "i always carry an empty cup, just in case"

12:43:02 nubbins`: i came across this website while trying to figure out why Ploshay's appearance is somewhat unsettling to me

12:46:34 nubbins`: still not sure i can pinpoint it... but have you ever met someone for whom photographs exist outside of time and space?

12:47:14 nubbins`: like, they just got their knee kicked out by an angry horse, but if a lens swivelled their way, they'd muster up a winning smile?

12:52:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... looky here, I have no doubt i could probably pass some "new bitcoin country" real estate scam or other. i do not wish to. this, deliberately, and upon consideration, and against what random idiot may interpret as my patrimonial interest. << leads into the mega-question - what is the opposite of a real estate scam? or is this like the maxwellian hypothetical 'monopole magnet', where you have a mystery alien

12:52:08 asciilifeform: meat with no opposite ?

12:52:34 mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?

12:53:23 mats: fwiw the MIT undergrad exhibit was horrible

12:53:35 mats: soo many flying machines reliant on arduinos and other garbage

12:54:11 mats: how did people make flying machines before hobbyist boards?! nobody knows.

12:54:14 mircea_popescu: mats but i thought you said ?

12:54:38 mats: i didn't deny that there are showmen, or even hordes of them, there

12:54:44 mircea_popescu: o no wait it wasn't you, some other guy was making dire warnings about how teligent mit is

12:55:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: meant something like a 'mircea_popescu as stalin' scenario

12:56:09 asciilifeform: with actual nuclear sovereignty over some geography or other

12:56:15 mircea_popescu: but why would you want this ?

12:56:20 asciilifeform: (meant as 'opposite of real estate scam')

12:56:21 mircea_popescu: haven't we gone through enough of that ?

12:56:36 mircea_popescu: no wait, make a full sentence, i have no idea what you're saying.

12:59:46 *: asciilifeform wonders what mircea_popescu would do if put in command of the red army. imagines that he would order it to disperse, with no more than one man per square km, and operate only as saboteur groups.

13:00:51 asciilifeform: there is such a thing as physical resources that are 1) concentrated spatially and 2) too unique to hijack like a vine hijacks tree.

13:00:57 asciilifeform: example - semiconductor plant

13:01:15 asciilifeform: (yes, aware that we had the 'semiconductor cuckoldry' discussion. it is nonsense if you are contemplating making something genuinely unique)

13:01:16 adlai: !s beam

13:01:17 assbot: 49 results for 'beam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=beam

13:01:42 adlai: not quite. mats, familiar with "BEAM" robotics?

13:01:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well in the abstract it is dificult to evaluate. what exactly would be the task fo this red army ?

13:02:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whichever. let's say defeat germany3.

13:02:21 adlai: "uses simple analogue circuits, such as comparators, instead of a microprocessor in order to produce an unusually simple design"

13:02:30 mats: vaguely so, yes

13:02:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you appreciate how the task to defeat germany3 is quite different from what we're doing here ?

13:02:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sold on this being so

13:02:56 adlai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flier_(BEAM)

13:02:57 assbot: Flier (BEAM) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1yqzNzo )

13:02:58 mircea_popescu: aha.

13:03:40 mircea_popescu: i personally can't quite see how i'd manage to motivate myself to participate in yet another "we good they bad fight for great justic!!1" conflict.

13:03:47 mircea_popescu: just how stupid am i supposed to be ?

13:04:20 mircea_popescu: what's next, passport-based uniwot ?

13:04:24 asciilifeform: l0l

13:04:25 adlai: as stupid as possible, but no stupider

13:05:19 mircea_popescu: no but srsly, 4chan and the internets have blown what looks like a permanent hole in the sort of deffective mental processes that are required for "patriotism" or whatever the pink-bellied shit involved in wwX was.

13:05:32 mircea_popescu: wouldn't you feel altogether silly doing it ?

13:05:59 adlai: oh, i'm pretty sure that trench chatter was blowing gaping holes in patriotism for longer than trenches have been cool

13:06:09 mircea_popescu: right.

13:06:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fact is, not everyone has the biography, talents, and education of a self-funding deep-cover operative; and physical sovereignty has its uses. it would not take very many 'don dunphy'ings to make #b-a very empty other than for mircea_popescu..

13:06:16 adlai: the trouble there is that you need to first have & enter trenches, for such chatter to happen

13:06:43 adlai: leading to boom-and-bust cycles of patriotism... clearly, we need to regulate statism.

13:07:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im quite unconvinced of the latter. and the former reduces to... what exactly, "not everyone has the biography and talents of a computer user, windows plox" ?

13:07:15 asciilifeform: adlai, mircea_popescu: 'patriotism' etc is a human plankton concept

13:07:19 mircea_popescu: adlai your humour amused us.

13:07:27 *: adlai will be here all week

13:07:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.

13:07:49 asciilifeform: pointing out that nothing we could do, foolish or clever, could ever resolve to it.

13:08:01 mircea_popescu: except we don't really participate in plankton whatever.

13:08:10 asciilifeform: well yes

13:08:15 mircea_popescu: be it computering or politicing or what may it be

13:08:32 mircea_popescu: i mean i guess, if one feels so entertained.

13:09:17 asciilifeform: i must disagree with the notion that defending a spot of geography, small and purposeful, is inescapably retarded.

13:09:59 asciilifeform: i can see the perspective that 'two or more #b-a folks in a room is a target' but by that logic we ought not have conferences, no ?

13:10:35 adlai: yet you'd disperse the red army? sure, disperse the offense, but how do you defend geography with individual saboteurs everywhere?

13:10:55 asciilifeform: adlai: mircea_popescu does not appear to be interested in defending anything (other than own house)

13:11:32 mircea_popescu: what exactly is the point of defending anything ?

13:11:35 asciilifeform: but even from the standpoint of 'i only wish to destroy the lizards' it does not make sense to disperse into atomized diversantes

13:11:49 nubbins`: wait, so now you don't need cruise missiles or w/e?

13:12:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's that azn fighting style where you don't particularly give a shit ?

13:12:24 asciilifeform: nubbins`: in mircea_popescu's world, as i understand, every soldier is naked but for his parachute, and ought to take what he needs from the locals

13:12:26 adlai: well, there's defending the self, and there's defending increasingly expanded notions of "self", until it morphes into yet another "sovereign"

13:12:27 mircea_popescu: just wait patiently while oponent kicks himself against everything in sight ?

13:12:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'ju-jitsu' ?

13:12:40 mircea_popescu: w/e it may be.

13:12:50 mircea_popescu: i think they're all essentially that in the end.

13:12:56 adlai: jiu-jitsu is actually quite interesting

13:13:03 adlai: it's focused on working against your opponent's anatomy

13:13:04 asciilifeform: but real armies - even asian armies - do not fight this way.

13:13:05 asciilifeform: why?

13:13:10 adlai: bullets?

13:13:24 nubbins`: no active conflict?

13:13:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform REAL PROGRAMMERS DO NOT LISP LAWL YOUR ARGUMENTES INVLEAD!

13:13:45 nubbins`: (s.korean soldiers -- all of them -- have blackbelt in taekwondo. to what end?)

13:13:53 asciilifeform: iraq, afghan have very seriously perverted military thinking

13:13:55 adlai: "These techniques were developed around the principle of using an attacker's energy against him, rather than directly opposing it."

13:14:13 asciilifeform: yes, mujahedeen don't hold territory, etc. BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO BUILD FACTORIES

13:14:22 asciilifeform: they are supplied externally by mega-empire(s)

13:14:26 nubbins`: not yet, anyway.

13:14:27 mircea_popescu: i recall this point where some derpy agent swore before the court he used excel spreadsheets to rape a db

13:14:30 mircea_popescu: heck, he probably did.

13:14:35 asciilifeform: it is not a closed system, to use thermodynamic parlance

13:14:48 asciilifeform: and cannot be compared to closed system

13:14:52 nubbins`: asciilifeform this is like saying kittens don't need to learn how to kill

13:14:59 nubbins`: because they're supplied externally by teat

13:15:19 asciilifeform: nubbins`: the partizan armies of iraq, afghan, etc. are like zoo cats

13:15:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can build all your factories you want once the idiot in the room (made out of a bunch of idiots glued to each other) is dead.

13:15:37 mircea_popescu: okay ?

13:16:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't even envisioned solution to the problem of escaping the event horizon of the black hole resulting from the idiot's implosion

13:16:37 asciilifeform: much less really contemplated factories

13:17:05 asciilifeform: nor am i entirely certain that i'm not one of the folks glued together

13:17:53 mircea_popescu: ok so then.

13:18:25 nubbins`: you don't always realize who you're glued to until the water gets above a certain level

13:19:08 asciilifeform: nubbins`: share the lsd ?

13:19:24 nubbins`: asciilifeform if i can navigate the dark markets, so can you!

13:19:25 asciilifeform: we salt mine folk know who we're glued to.

13:19:30 asciilifeform: nubbins`: no.

13:19:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform moreovber, you know, resolving problems that are clearly past what you probably correctly call an event horizon is an exercise in derpitude.

13:19:48 adlai: water dissolves glue (at least, the cheap icky "white glue" stuff); ie, say asciilifeform is part of the glued idiot mass... as it begins to implode/dissolve/etc, folks find themselves increasingly less glued

13:19:49 nubbins`: twist: your across-the-street-neighbour did same

13:20:32 nubbins`: the cheap icky you're referring to is PVA

13:20:43 nubbins`: and i'd advance that water does not dissolve it

13:20:56 asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095008 << thread re: same

13:20:56 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:05:27; ascii_field: ^ most of it, in my particular case

13:23:11 nubbins`: hmm

13:23:27 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i'd like to hear honest take from you, on this matter. would you say that the 20 years i spent learning to do what i do, since was a boy, a waste, like career of a bureaucrat? or does serenissima world have some use for the type of thing that i do.

13:23:33 nubbins`: the prize for "most interesting line of work about which we know almost nothing" goes to...

13:23:42 asciilifeform: or should i requalify as printing press mechanic, or what

13:24:00 nubbins`: asciilifeform an honest take will require a bit of time, but if you've got the ears...

13:24:02 adlai: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095009 << answer re: same

13:24:02 assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:05:42; mircea_popescu: ascii_field so this would be in demand either a) by the nsa or else b) independent work a la s.nsa

13:24:29 mircea_popescu: lol what're you asking him for!

13:24:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because nubbins` has this incomplete thread with me, re: 'you too can learn to be me'

13:24:58 asciilifeform: i'd like to see the logical end for it

13:24:59 mircea_popescu: there's a very simple heuristic to evaluate whether you're currently developing or whether you historically developped skills teh most serene republic has a need of.

13:25:00 nubbins`: \o/

13:25:11 mircea_popescu: this does not involve finding the officer of serenissima hr.

13:25:22 nubbins`: asciilifeform you won't get me to admit that learning things is a waste. so the facile reply is a flat-out no

13:25:23 mircea_popescu: it involves an answer to the very simple q : "can you do something with it ?"

13:25:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was a philosophical question

13:25:36 mircea_popescu: if the answer's no, then you've got yourself a social study. if the answer's yes, more power to ya.

13:25:47 nubbins`: the slightly less saucy reply is that you didn't learn "to do x", you learned "how to learn"

13:26:09 nubbins`: which puts you (a) far ahead of most of the pack and (b) in a position to, y'know... walk away and start over whenever you like

13:26:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the long-term question is 'can i do something with it and continue to eat.' if fiat world turns sufficiently hostile, the answer, simply based on my pre-existing work here, may be a 'no.'

13:26:30 adlai: the highest bidder's exit from the auction, for reasons ranging from death to bankruptcy, doesn't mean that others aren't waiting to take his place

13:26:34 mircea_popescu: yes, but the fictitious game of "may be" is by definition going to provide any anwer you seek.

13:26:38 mircea_popescu: without that, there'd be no literature.

13:27:22 adlai: if you're worried about getting killed because you know too much... that's your problem, for agreeing to hear too much

13:27:37 asciilifeform: adlai: everyone who reads the log, 'knows too much'

13:27:43 asciilifeform: including the ninjasp4mz0rz

13:27:52 nubbins`: i'd also advance the opinion that one does not know quite how much one can change until one is forced to do so. while this may seem incredibly foolhardy (so much so that most people never try it), walking away with a zippo tossed over shoulder is the only way to find out.

13:27:56 asciilifeform: it is not why anyone gets the gasenwagen

13:28:12 asciilifeform: nubbins`: again the lsd

13:28:46 *: nubbins` sighs

13:28:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sadly he has a point.

13:29:03 nubbins`: salary time

13:29:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his point, so far as i can surmise, is 'be theoretical physicist'

13:29:43 nubbins`: wat.

13:30:05 asciilifeform: welcome to being the greeks, who had spiffy thought but no engineering to speak of.

13:30:18 nubbins`: my point is if you don't like riding in the clown car, get out and walk (again the lsd!)

13:30:21 asciilifeform: nubbins`: walking away with a zippo tossed over shoulder is the only way to find out.

13:30:30 asciilifeform: did i misunderstand the implication

13:30:37 asciilifeform: nubbins`: walk where?

13:30:47 nubbins`: into your new life

13:30:56 asciilifeform: not enough lsd here

13:31:02 asciilifeform: to comprehend what nubbins` meant.

13:31:07 nubbins`: so in august 2012, i was promoted from "programmer/analyst" to "senior programmer/analyst"

13:31:14 mircea_popescu: im starting to understand why religion is such a big deal. it's not that it makes any sense, it's that it provides answers to "fundamental questions of life"

13:31:21 mircea_popescu: nonsense such as "walk where"

13:31:37 adlai: "opiate of the masses" is not a diss

13:31:41 nubbins`: great stuff, top kek. 25% discount on my home and car insurance. $500/year "wellness benefit" for new running shoes. full health and dental.

13:31:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wasn't expecting an answer. hence answer 'not enough lsd'

13:31:59 nubbins`: this came with the "huge" salary of $61,000 per annum

13:32:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the exhortation to walk is the l0l here

13:32:22 nubbins`: precisely six months after this promotion, i tendered my resignation

13:32:22 mircea_popescu: im not sure i see why.

13:32:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the ancient discussion with TaT re women. "do you like her ? if not, get rid of her"

13:32:49 nubbins`: and opted for a job with an annual salary of (checking records...) about $6,000

13:32:54 mircea_popescu: the answer in his head, prolly, was "to be replaced with what"

13:32:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: implies a woman-generator that will produce replacement

13:33:06 mircea_popescu: that's how women think, srsly.

13:33:44 mircea_popescu: cuz 598986907 years ago, hunter went into the forest, whereas woman only moved fat butt from current bush she plucked once someone found a new bush

13:33:45 adlai: nubbins` seems content to swim, or clutch driftwood, after taking the hatchet to his yacht

13:33:51 nubbins`: now, at this point, i'd like to take the opportunity to inquire as to what the general consensus is, among those present, regarding my intelligence, wisdom, and overall sensibility

13:33:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is more like exhortation, to downed pilot in desert, 'throw out that stale water in your flask'

13:33:54 nubbins`: as it's presented

13:34:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so it is.

13:34:08 asciilifeform: adlai has it

13:34:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` discussions on teh side of the pool.

13:34:24 nubbins`: adlai what can you do that i can't?

13:34:36 asciilifeform: nubbins`: you did mention a paid-up house. so whatever the intelligence and wisdom, nubbins` is rich

13:34:39 adlai: see your name highlighted when you type mine

13:34:44 asciilifeform: and gets to think rich man thoughts

13:34:49 nubbins`: paid-up? the bank owns this house, buddy

13:35:00 nubbins`: $190k outstanding

13:35:06 asciilifeform: hm

13:35:15 adlai: so your driftwood is tied to the megasteamer

13:35:25 *: asciilifeform recalls a thread where nubbins` spoke of having some sort of actual assets to his name

13:35:28 adlai: watch out for icebergs and malfunctioning gps!

13:35:43 nubbins`: $190 death-pledge and i chose $6k/yr over $61k/yr

13:35:48 nubbins`: <+nubbins`> now, at this point, i'd like to take the opportunity to inquire as to what the general consensus is, among those present, regarding my intelligence, wisdom, and overall sensibility

13:35:56 nubbins`: ^ srsly, don't hold back

13:36:08 *: asciilifeform would love to continue, but has to go mine some salt now.

13:36:13 *: adlai also holds Bias in high esteem

13:36:16 nubbins`: asciilifeform my greatest asset is my willingness to toss zippos over shoulders

13:36:17 nubbins`: :D

13:36:43 nubbins`: certainly more valuable than w/e stacks of btc, w/e piles of printing equipment, w/e meatwot

13:37:12 adlai: http://latindiscussion.com/forum/latin/omnia-mea-mecum-porto.9697/#post-69125

13:37:14 assbot: Omnia mea mecum porto | Latin D ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnRH7j )

13:37:14 mircea_popescu: nubbins` honestly i thought you were kinda dumb for the entire interval, but in a reserved sort of way.

13:37:16 nubbins`: you may be thinking of the time where i went on about how little money i need to make in order to get by

13:37:23 nubbins`: mircea_popescu aw shucks

13:37:30 mircea_popescu: which then paid off when you went and fucked with installing pogoshits

13:37:57 mircea_popescu: which should explain why people don't particularly wanna say anything on the topic. how the hell does one even know ?

13:38:06 nubbins`: how indeed

13:38:19 mircea_popescu: so stop asking the esteemed channel trick questionz.

13:38:35 nubbins`: man.

13:38:48 nubbins`: question was "how do i stop giving rimjob to the man"

13:38:58 nubbins`: i reply "take your tongue out of his ass" and people think i'm being all flippant.

13:39:30 mircea_popescu: so listen, i was once with like half a dozen teensy chicks by the side of a pool, and some were in the water and some were on the chairs.

13:39:38 mircea_popescu: and they had this conversation which went on for a while.

13:39:46 *: nubbins` pulls up a chair

13:39:50 adlai: damnit, http://latindiscussion.com/forum/latin/omnia-mea-mecum-porto.9697/#post-107434 is a better source

13:39:52 assbot: Omnia mea mecum porto | Latin D ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnSlBW )

13:40:21 mircea_popescu: nubbins` all about how and why would one go in the water, whether there's breathing, ample considerations.

13:40:51 mircea_popescu: (yes this has been a teasy metaphore)

13:41:03 nubbins`: so far

13:41:35 nubbins`: let me guess, all the ones who jumped in the pool drowned?

13:41:46 mircea_popescu: hey, i used to write great novels, but then i got promoted and now im doing 6 teasy metaphores an hour!

13:42:00 mircea_popescu: no dude. they kept talking indefinitely. it's a way to pass the time.

13:42:11 nubbins`: alf ^ imagine.

13:42:15 mircea_popescu: how is discussion supposed to spur action ?

13:42:30 nubbins`: actually unable to tell if that's a srs question.

13:43:07 adlai: actually unable to tell if anybody here understands latin anymore

13:43:31 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: by being persuasive ?

13:43:33 mircea_popescu: adlai no, i'm aware of teh quote.

13:43:47 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski being persuasive is like being tasteful. not a property of the painting.

13:44:01 nubbins`: "The need to assemble is as constant among humans as the necessity of making decisions is rare. Assembling corresponds to the joy of feeling a common power. Decisions are vital only in emergency situations, where the exercise of democracy is already compromised. The rest of the time, “the democratic character of decision making” is only a problem for the fanatics of process. It’s not a matter of critiquing assemblies or abandoning them,

13:44:01 nubbins`: but of liberating the speech, gestures, and interplay of beings that take place within them. We just have to see that each person comes to an assembly not only with a point of view or a motion, but with desires, attachments, capacities, forces, sadnesses and a certain disposition toward others, an openness. If we manage to set aside the fantasy of the General Assembly and replace it with an assembly of presences, if we manage to foil the

13:44:01 nubbins`: constantly renewed temptation of hegemony, if we stop making the decision our final aim, then there is a chance for a kind of massification, one of those moments of collective crystallization where a decision suddenly takes hold of beings, completely or only in part."

13:44:04 nubbins`: woops, sry

13:44:07 adlai: well it's more towards nubbins` who seems to have trouble getting across what was said quite aptly millenia ago

13:44:23 mircea_popescu: mebbe he doesn't like it.

13:44:24 nubbins`: adlai break it down into one-syllable words for dumb ol' me.

13:44:34 adlai: "all my shit be in my head"

13:45:09 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: aha. more a property of the observer

13:45:10 adlai: but srsly, read the links. it's a one paragraph story

13:45:36 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski if someone's ready to i dunno, buy a new car, then he has specific questions which a forum might answer, and he's buying cart with our without forum. so forum didn't DO anything.

13:45:55 mircea_popescu: if dude's not ready to buy nw car, he may talk of whatever with whoever, still no car. so forum didn';t DO anything.

13:45:59 mircea_popescu: forums are not venues of action.

13:46:14 mircea_popescu: which is just another way of saying that "talking about bitcoin doesn't make you part of bitcoin"

13:46:18 pete_dushenski: but nor are forums the only, well, forum for discussion

13:46:23 nubbins`: adlai if all your goods that matter aren't with you, when you stand naked and alone, then you're in a pretty bad way.

13:46:25 mircea_popescu: which is important because "being in bitcoin country" does not anymore "make you bitcoiner

13:46:34 mircea_popescu: which is what i was talking about throughout.

13:47:06 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this channel could be considered a forum

13:47:21 pete_dushenski: and it most certainly stimulates action, no ?

13:47:34 adlai: sure, and log.b-a can be considered a tapestry of threads

13:47:39 nubbins`: pete_dushenski again:

13:47:42 nubbins`: "If we manage to set aside the fantasy of the General Assembly and replace it with an assembly of presences, if we manage to foil the constantly renewed temptation of hegemony, if we stop making the decision our final aim, then there is a chance for a kind of massification, one of those moments of collective crystallization where a decision suddenly takes hold of beings, completely or only in part."

13:48:11 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski no.

13:48:18 nubbins`: one day, in the distant future, i'll say something to alf and it'll make all what i have previously said fall into place

13:48:21 nubbins`: or not. who knows.

13:49:15 nubbins`: "discussion" doesn't lead to action, it leads to puzzle pieces being shuffled around in your head

13:49:18 *: adlai thinks the issue at hand relates more to basic axioms arising from one's own life, rather than words

13:49:32 nubbins`: this can be useful or useless, depending on the situation, the person...

13:49:37 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: how not ? how many pogo purchases and gnupg downloads have resulted from time spent here ?

13:49:43 mircea_popescu: nubbins` to the degree that one's action is prevented by organised debris in his head, then this process may clear a path he can finally act upon

13:49:53 mircea_popescu: but i still think it's at best wrong to imagine "the discussion did it"

13:50:02 adlai: nubbins`: well you can have all the right puzzle pieces on the table, yet not see the picture

13:50:09 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i just don't credit that "resulted".

13:50:11 nubbins`: mircea_popescu sure, agreed.

13:50:36 nubbins`: put another way, nothing i say will make alf walk away

13:50:47 nubbins`: but perhaps things i say will clear his mental path a bit more

13:51:03 nubbins`: the only thing that'll make alf walk away is alf

13:51:04 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: perhaps i'm ascribing too much causation to correlations

13:51:33 nubbins`: but again

13:51:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00028902 = 2.3411 BTC [-]

13:51:45 nubbins`: i owe the bank $190,000 and i made $6,000 in 2013

13:51:56 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i mean they also happened in daytime, you know, cause the shops are closed at night. so daytime causes it ? meh.

13:52:04 nubbins`: and i spend my days not holding my nose to the grindstone, but dicking around on irc and puttering in my basement

13:52:04 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: ya how does that actually work financially ?

13:52:08 nubbins`: and i sleep the sleep of the just.

13:52:19 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski he sells used chicken fingers to make up the diff.

13:52:24 nubbins`: oh ho

13:52:28 pete_dushenski: best plum sauce

13:52:41 nubbins`: pete_dushenski how it works is that you realize what you need and don't need to get by

13:53:01 adlai: not all of us need mercedeses!

13:53:06 nubbins`: if you have 25 pairs of red shoes and nowhere to put them, maybe a shoe rack isn't the right answer?

13:53:11 mircea_popescu: nubbins` how much is teh interest on that 200k ?

13:53:30 pete_dushenski: adlai: says you !

13:53:38 nubbins`: mircea_popescu i pay off about $5k principal and $9k interest per annum

13:54:00 nubbins`: 5-year term's up next summer so i'll prolly pop a couple tens of k down on the principal then

13:54:21 mircea_popescu: what if wife takes a lover ?

13:54:46 nubbins`: so be it

13:55:07 mircea_popescu: no but i mean in terms of teh payoff.

13:55:09 nubbins`: (as if there's a better man than me out there)

13:55:17 nubbins`: mircea_popescu same.

13:55:26 mircea_popescu: alf will be pissed.

13:55:28 nubbins`: monthly mortgage payment is ~$1200

13:55:49 mircea_popescu: "oh i just pay 20k out of my 6k a year. problem ?!?!?!"

13:55:57 nubbins`: !s roomie

13:55:58 assbot: 8 results for 'roomie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=roomie

13:56:18 nubbins`: p and i, combined, contribute about $500/mo to keep this place going

13:56:24 mircea_popescu: i dun think he wants that.

13:56:31 nubbins`: he 100% does not

13:56:47 nubbins`: but i'll note that this is a problem with alf, not with walking away

13:56:59 mircea_popescu: anyway, fwiw i suppose your situation is exactly typical of "the civilised world".

13:57:14 nubbins`: what, floating along without a care for tomorrow? :D

13:57:40 mircea_popescu: on average, if you average them, per capita debt about 1k, per capita income about 5k, hopefully there isn't a fire.

13:57:48 mircea_popescu: s/1k/100k/

13:58:06 nubbins`: you guys don't have fire insurance in b-a?

13:58:19 *: adlai also wonders wo what degree nubbins` has "gone galt", perhaps without being consciously aware of the concept

13:58:44 mircea_popescu: not everything's insurable nubbins`. specifically : insurance works for individuals. i was discussing the country/western world.

13:58:48 nubbins`: adlai i gave up on atlas shrugged after several hundred pages because it was a piece of shit, indulge me will ya?

13:58:53 mircea_popescu: if there IS a fire, nobody can insure the whole shebang.

13:59:12 nubbins`: if there's a fire that big, house insurance will be the least of your worries

13:59:12 mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's when you stop contributing to an idiotic community and just keep for yourself.

13:59:37 nubbins`: a

14:00:16 adlai: and includes reducing your quality of life, since you reach diminishing returns as you try to increase it

14:00:21 mircea_popescu: kinda how the soviets failed, people went "eh why bother, they gotta pay me anyway, and i don't make anything out of iteither way"

14:00:31 nubbins`: \o/

14:00:38 nubbins`: my quality of life has steadily increased since walking away

14:00:48 mircea_popescu: using the same metrics ?

14:00:55 nubbins`: the only ones that matter, yep

14:01:05 mircea_popescu: "my own evaluation of variable x has changed as my measurement standards changed"

14:01:10 nubbins`: heh.

14:01:12 adlai: dropping meaningless metrics is the easiest way to increase quality of life

14:01:26 *: adlai is not using "meaningless" ironically, but... subjectively

14:01:29 pete_dushenski: "my penis has never been bigger!"

14:01:30 nubbins`: mircea_popescu guess how much money i saved per year while making $61k

14:01:35 mircea_popescu: well in that manner, becoming a slave is the easiest way to increase quality of life.

14:01:39 mircea_popescu: you've never seen people that happy.

14:01:43 adlai: cf dogs

14:01:57 adlai: or all animals being cared for by humans, outside of labs

14:02:12 adlai: (or zoos)

14:02:21 nubbins`: what do i need money for? buy a volkswagen?

14:02:23 mircea_popescu: because humans aren't animals.

14:02:31 mircea_popescu: nubbins` alf likes gadgets.

14:02:34 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: guessing that 61k is pre-tax, i'll guess 20k savings. i'm guessing you've got skill in this saving domain.

14:02:58 nubbins`: mircea_popescu so do i, but i also like not wanting to fucking kill myself every day

14:03:10 mircea_popescu: yes, but that's what he means by "theoretical physicist"

14:03:17 nubbins`: pete_dushenski closer to $0k per year

14:03:25 adlai: tangentially related: though increasing the font size of my console has reduced the number of characters on my screen, it has greatly increased my quality-of-reading

14:03:33 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: lolk

14:03:38 mircea_popescu: adlai did b-a spur you to this action ? :D

14:03:42 pete_dushenski: so much for that theory

14:03:47 nubbins`: pete_dushenski implication being that all that extra money *almost* bought happiness

14:04:08 nubbins`: you know when i was an office-man, i'd struggle whether to get out of bed every. single. morning.

14:04:12 adlai: mircea_popescu: actually a control-typo triggered it, and i decided to learn from the happy accident :)

14:04:20 mircea_popescu: lol

14:04:27 mircea_popescu: see pete_dushenski ? we got nothing.

14:04:28 nubbins`: i once took a week's vacation because i couldn't be fucked to show up on a monday... or a tuesday

14:04:40 nubbins`: this is not sustainable

14:04:45 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know, just because your job sucked doesn't mean work sucks.

14:04:53 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's all those sunrises that caused it !

14:04:59 nubbins`: mircea_popescu agreed. i still work (from time to time), and it doesn't suck at all

14:05:11 nubbins`: i wake up with a smile every day and go to bed w/ same

14:05:15 adlai: don't worry, the typo was only due to furious typing trying to keep up with the wordcount

14:05:35 mircea_popescu: doesn't it get boring ?

14:05:43 nubbins`: not at all. the world's my oyster.

14:05:47 pete_dushenski: heya funkenstein_ your comment has been replied to :)

14:05:47 nubbins`: boring people get bored.

14:06:09 mircea_popescu: lolk

14:06:21 funkenstein_: cool i go to check it

14:06:21 nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it

14:06:25 funkenstein_: you guys are on fire today :)

14:06:31 nubbins`: i'd be too busy drinking

14:06:42 lobbes: nubbins', your example leaving your 61k job is validating my similar decision to eventually leave my new job for something less lucrative but more sane

14:06:54 lobbes: I thought I was crazy (maybe still am)

14:07:06 nubbins`: lobbes truly foolhardy is the man to whom i serve as an example

14:07:24 lobbes: ha

14:07:37 mircea_popescu: "this could not possibly be a dumb idea - look! others are doing it too!"

14:07:39 lobbes: well I don't plan to cling to driftwood

14:07:42 nubbins`: heh.

14:07:47 lobbes: just downshift a bit ;)

14:07:52 nubbins`: mircea_popescu are you talking about working in an office? 8)

14:08:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` or body mods or w/e.

14:08:10 nubbins`: slow clap

14:08:18 mircea_popescu: but no, i was talking about his line above.

14:08:35 nubbins`: lobbes even the stupidest ideas will find support on the interwebs

14:08:43 nubbins`: i'm serious: <+nubbins`> lobbes truly foolhardy is the man to whom i serve as an example

14:08:47 mircea_popescu: kinda why the interwebs are so popular with "the people"

14:09:34 lobbes: again, I'm not talking $61 to $6 here, rather 85 to maybe 58

14:09:47 lobbes: so perhaps not the same at all

14:09:51 mircea_popescu: lobbes you're not being personally criticized yo. you don't like it, get rid of it.

14:10:20 lobbes: well, I wouldn't be offended if I was being criticized. Rather, that's why I like it here

14:10:23 nubbins`: trappings of happiness vs happiness

14:10:25 lobbes: but yes

14:10:36 nubbins`: "but with 61k/yr i can buy all these trappings!"

14:10:36 *: mircea_popescu realised he has nfi what his income is.

14:10:46 nubbins`: mircea_popescu join the club

14:10:56 nubbins`: maybe at conference XIII you, me and alf can compare grey hairs

14:11:07 mircea_popescu: my beard's got some kickass white going

14:11:22 nubbins`: my body is a patchwork, beard happens to be reddish

14:11:37 mircea_popescu: "my body is my patchwork ~nubbins"

14:11:40 nubbins`: heh

14:11:51 nubbins`: who needs $61k with a body like this?

14:12:14 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well there's some fiat aspect to your income that's reported, no ?

14:12:16 mircea_popescu: you should see these retards btw.

14:12:28 mircea_popescu: according to argentinian head, 200k barely buys you a cramped 500sqft apt.

14:12:44 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski in like 5 jurisdictions by various people who know their job.

14:12:53 nubbins`: i got four floors of house for not much more than that

14:13:01 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: aha. naturally

14:13:06 nubbins`: but hey, apples to oranges

14:13:19 mircea_popescu: nubbins` how so ? house is house.

14:13:22 nubbins`: in the20yearslumland, i could prolly buy a city block for that

14:13:38 mircea_popescu: i srsly do not see ANY merit to this "location" bs.

14:14:06 mats: hmm... Egyptian state planners have a grandiose infrastructure plan to spend $43bn on power generation, $21bn on upstream oil and gas, and $45bn on a new capital

14:14:14 nubbins`: someone does, otherwise this house'd cost $30k and the slum in ohio'd cost $220

14:14:31 nubbins`: mats those are some big imaginary numbers

14:15:28 nubbins`: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Going_Galt

14:15:29 assbot: Going Galt - RationalWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIm1eF )

14:15:33 nubbins`: adlai FWIW i pay taxes

14:15:37 nubbins`: dirty, filthy taxes

14:16:28 adlai: well the point of "going galt" is tax optimization through productivity reduction rather than fund-shuffling

14:16:47 nubbins`: i'm much more productive than i was while working an office job.

14:17:00 adlai: productivity as measured by the collector

14:17:04 nubbins`: ("but nubs, you sit around on irc all day" ...think about that)

14:17:19 nubbins`: adlai so salary is the word, then?

14:17:37 nubbins`: 'cause you don't get taxed based on how hard you work up here in canada.

14:18:32 adlai: aiui, which is only from the internet as i don't physically live in libertardia, this meme was mainly coined by/for business owners reducing their business's "salary"

14:18:45 nubbins`: sounds like a fucking wank fest

14:19:01 adlai: ie, "my company could sell $300k on the open market, but then it would be in a higher corporate tax bracket, so we'll only sell $200k of widgets"

14:19:13 nubbins`: i didn't quit 9-5 because i wanted to stick it to the tax man. i quit it because it sucked and it was killing me.

14:19:23 adlai: then the market price for widgets rises due to lack of supply, and company finds itself with sales totalling $251k

14:20:08 adlai: mentsh trakht, market lakht

14:20:28 nubbins`: but hey, the thing that sucks and kills you *does* give you the money to buy toys

14:20:29 nubbins`: so there's that

14:21:09 nubbins`: maybe once you get enough toys it'll be a fair trade.

14:21:47 mircea_popescu: adlai i always understood it as the much more subtle "well im on the football team now, why hassle to score goals. hassle to prevent anyone from scoring more than me".

14:21:53 mircea_popescu: going galt = what happens to a bureaucracy.

14:22:04 adlai: mircea_popescu: no, that's the goal-withholding attack!

14:22:24 nubbins`: didn't the galt idiots blow up some train tracks or smth?

14:22:35 *: nubbins` blocked most of what he read from memory

14:22:41 nubbins`: on account of it being such a piece of shit

14:22:55 *: adlai hasn't actually read the book, didn't even crack the cover

14:23:10 *: funkenstein_ also

14:23:32 nubbins`: adlai don't

14:23:49 adlai: anthem is precisely the correct dose of ayn rand for a healthy brain

14:24:01 adlai: finishable in one shitting

14:24:17 adlai: !s anthem

14:24:18 assbot: 33 results for 'anthem' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=anthem

14:24:41 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2014#905513

14:24:41 assbot: Logged on 31-10-2014 18:13:19; adlai: http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Ayn_Rand/Anthem/

14:25:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20953 @ 0.00029681 = 6.2191 BTC [+] {3}

14:25:41 nubbins`: almost certainly will not read

14:25:59 *: funkenstein_ almost certainly will

14:26:51 *: mats is busy working through "The Misbehavior of Markets"

14:27:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00030211 = 3.58 BTC [+]

14:27:15 adlai: "A Fractal View of Financial Turbulence"?

14:28:35 adlai: blessed art thou, ocr operator; though you skimped on the index, grep is also nice and will suffice: https://is.muni.cz/el/1456/podzim2013/MPM_FIM2/The_Misbehavior_of_Markets.pdf

14:28:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IInUrB )

14:28:58 mats: "A Fractal View of Risk, Ruin, and Reward"

14:29:20 adlai: yeah dunno why amazon choose to reword that

14:32:26 adlai: mats: thank you for the link, the author may be one of the only people (other than personified Failure) able to dissuade me

14:32:57 adlai: "Thus, reading this volume will not make you rich. But it will make you wiser—and may thereby save you from getting poorer.

14:33:39 mats: its nice to be thanked for stuff i didn't do

14:34:28 fluffypony: so I'm going to the Bitcoin Africa conference on Thursday

14:34:31 fluffypony: https://twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/587985510364270592

14:34:33 assbot: Door tix @ Bitcoin Africa conference: "only cash will be accepted". Bitcoin...you're doing it wrong! /hashtag/BitcoinAfrica15?src=hash http://t.co/G66vzo8Etz

14:36:07 mats: why would you soil yourself by association with the likely demographic of con-goers?

14:37:07 fluffypony: mats: because it's the first one in ZA, I'm going to be in Cape Town anyway, and Micah Winkelspecht is talking

14:37:14 fluffypony: (wink on Github)

14:37:28 fluffypony: who I hope will at least be a little interesting

14:39:16 mats: not sure how i feel about hardware security modules and wallets

14:39:30 mats: especially FIPS* anything

14:39:39 mircea_popescu: fluffypony wanna qntra ?

14:40:07 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: definitely afterwards, don't have enough to say about it now

14:40:16 fluffypony: except that it looks like they're retarded

14:40:25 mircea_popescu: well that's kinda par for the course.

14:40:32 fluffypony: quite

14:45:18 nubbins`: hrm.

14:45:33 nubbins`: i'm always suspicious when Canada Post sends me an "item delivered" email and the mailbox is empty

14:47:54 nubbins`: nevermind: http://imgur.com/ITHUgPB

14:47:55 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIqPR3 )

14:48:13 nubbins`: AND TWINS MAKE FIVE

14:48:34 nubbins`: too bad it's the kinda dumb guy buying all these, huh ;/

14:50:27 pete_dushenski: those torn boxes!

14:51:05 *: pete_dushenski now wondering from whence mircea_popescu derives fiat profit in 5 jurisdictions to keep tax lawyers and accountants busy

14:51:52 pete_dushenski: mats: ah yes, mandelbrot. classic book, that.

14:52:40 nubbins`: mandelbrot et al did much to form my perceptions of the world

14:53:12 nubbins`: pete_dushenski inorite? sold as "used", guessing they're either (a) returns or (b) just damaged packaging and unsuitable for shelf

14:53:57 pete_dushenski: benoit's definitely in the taleb vein, or perhaps vice versa

14:54:27 nubbins`: shame i don't have time to play with these pogos til next week

14:54:39 nubbins`: itching to throw that static bitcoind build onto one w/ an ssd

14:54:57 pete_dushenski: in taleb's books, he often refers to his long, slow walks with mandelbrot, and how the old man is the only one who will walk slowly enough to properly meditate with

14:55:32 nubbins`: rozal that was the most inept display of cloaking i've ever seen

14:56:02 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: oh you're busy nao ? what happened to mr. man of leisure of twodogslandia ?

14:56:53 nubbins`: he's taking a four-day vacation out of the country.

14:57:05 nubbins`: imagine?

14:57:20 nubbins`: nice try tho ;/

14:58:37 pete_dushenski: ah, you're also going to c3 ?

15:00:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00030213 = 1.2085 BTC [+] {2}

15:06:28 nubbins`: naw.

15:06:43 nubbins`: taking in a couple shows

15:07:07 nubbins`: three-day vacation really

15:07:24 nubbins`: longer trips don't suffice for the man of leisure

15:10:03 nubbins`: (protip: get yourself a flight rewards credit card /before/ you quit your office job. they only check your annual salary when you first sign up)

15:10:22 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: how is it that longer trips don't suffice ? suffice for what ?

15:10:35 nubbins`: pete_dushenski you traveled much?

15:10:43 pete_dushenski: sure.

15:10:55 nubbins`: what sorta travel, mostly resorts or "real"?

15:11:25 pete_dushenski: "real" man

15:11:35 nubbins`: ever get... tired?

15:11:59 pete_dushenski: quite often after the first week or so.

15:12:06 nubbins`: this is precisely the reason

15:12:49 nubbins`: everyone who travels has a point at which they become tired. for some, this is 6mos. for others, 1mo.

15:12:50 pete_dushenski: but if you can make it past "tired" there's always more to explore and experience

15:12:55 nubbins`: 100% agreed

15:13:14 nubbins`: i made it several months into "tired" before i abandoned s.k.

15:13:26 pete_dushenski: so sure, i get tired, but it doesn't send me home, just makes me want to be productive while i'm away

15:13:30 pete_dushenski: so i bring a laptop

15:13:36 funkenstein_: ;;later tell mod6 some 0.5.3.1 info http://dpaste.com/0EK6PYX

15:13:37 assbot: dpaste: 0EK6PYX ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIvdzA )

15:13:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:13:49 nubbins`: you do not!

15:13:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00029421 = 6.4579 BTC [-] {2}

15:13:58 nubbins`: :(

15:14:37 nubbins`: anyway, this trip is more of an indulgence than most

15:14:42 nubbins`: i usually aim for at least a week or two

15:14:52 pete_dushenski: lol of course i bring a laptop, what is this 1994 ?

15:14:55 funkenstein_: we are always travelling on spaceship earth

15:15:29 funkenstein_: but yeah bases are useful

15:15:46 pete_dushenski: there are always logs to read, travel stories to share on contravex, emails to send.

15:15:46 nubbins`: but... print shops are busy in the summer, so if i wanna go somewhere, it's best to go in the spring... and it turns out three of my favourite musical acts were playing back-to-back nights in cleveland

15:16:18 nubbins`: pete_dushenski i bring a smartphone instead of a laptop precisely to limit my tech usage

15:16:44 nubbins`: which btw i pronounce "usagi" in my head occasionally, thanks bitcoin!

15:16:48 pete_dushenski: i'm pretty sure smartphones increase 'tech usage' while decreasing productivity

15:17:00 pete_dushenski: this is precisely contra my aim in bringing a laptop

15:17:02 nubbins`: pete_dushenski not if you keep it on silent and in your pocket, instead of obsessively "checking" it.

15:17:16 nubbins`: pete_dushenski sounds like we use different methods to achieve same result

15:17:45 pete_dushenski: mas o menos, ya

15:17:54 pete_dushenski: so you're seeing usagi in cleveland or what ?

15:18:00 nubbins`: https://puellaludens.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/photo2.jpg

15:18:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1aONA7u )

15:18:03 nubbins`: haha nah

15:18:50 nubbins`: i am, however, seeing Lightning Bolt, Sufjan Stevens, and METZ

15:19:02 nubbins`: which... o/

15:19:05 nubbins`: \o

15:19:13 nubbins`: self-highfive

15:20:26 pete_dushenski: lol can't say i've ever heard of any of them

15:20:58 pete_dushenski: but i'm not as cultured and worldly as i think i am. just a soap opera star!

15:24:02 mircea_popescu: lol

15:25:18 mircea_popescu: puella ludens is notbad a name.

15:26:46 mircea_popescu: and here i thought twtelecom went under.

15:27:03 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

15:28:41 ascii_field: nubbins`: but i'll note that this is a problem with alf, not with walking away << i've noticed that even you have exhausted your patience with the bipedal rabid dog in your home...

15:28:54 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i guess ascii_field has telecom reviving AND self-upping magical powers

15:28:59 ascii_field: whereas i have zero patience with the very concept of having the very smell of a rabid dog in my home.

15:30:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_field ok, but you know... kinda hard to herd a herd if you're so olfactorily intolerant

15:30:50 mircea_popescu: teh ancient egyptians slept in the barn eh ?

15:30:52 ascii_field: why do i want to herd anything

15:31:03 ascii_field: tajikistan also sleeps in the barn

15:31:06 mircea_popescu: well what do you want to, spherical chicken in vacuum ?

15:31:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8601 @ 0.0002875 = 2.4728 BTC [-]

15:31:13 ascii_field: as does every goatfuckistan still extant on planet 3

15:31:21 ascii_field: i am not a creature of goatfuckistan

15:31:26 ascii_field: you gotta grow up with it.

15:31:41 mircea_popescu: myeah.

15:32:06 mircea_popescu: still, "hard to herd a herd"... you heard it here first

15:33:10 ascii_field: nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it << what did you buy and play with instead? a nagant, testing how it feels in the mouth, as in mircea_popescu's 'dulap' story ?

15:33:24 adlai: fwiw, according to diamod, sleeping in barns (or herding in the home) is the only reason we're not all dead of smallpox

15:33:42 mircea_popescu: adlai among other things.

15:33:59 ascii_field: adlai: by this logic, eating raw bear meat is the only reason 'we' aren't all dead of starvation, etc.

15:34:00 adlai: smallpox faded to obscurity long before we learned how to wage proper interkingdom war

15:34:27 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you ever had bear btw ?

15:34:37 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i am told that i did, but methinks it was a fraud

15:34:43 mircea_popescu: hah

15:35:00 mircea_popescu: kinda gamey, like a pig that grew up thinking it's pheasant ?

15:35:09 ascii_field: that's precisely what it tasted like

15:35:12 ascii_field: so perhaps yes, bear.

15:35:13 mircea_popescu: no fraud there.

15:35:29 *: ascii_field was convinced that his 'bear' had a snout, ate from a trough

15:35:30 adlai: in the idf, if bread sits on the shelf next to canned spam for long enough...

15:35:39 mircea_popescu: kinda same metabolism.

15:35:42 mircea_popescu: we, bears, pigs...

15:35:46 mircea_popescu: hedgehogs

15:35:54 ascii_field: omnivores 'are what they eat' newsateleven

15:36:07 adlai: long pig, short pig, red pig, blue pig?

15:36:16 ascii_field: 'the longest pig'

15:36:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00028733 = 1.6809 BTC [-] {2}

15:36:21 pete_dushenski: adlai: now why would spam be in the idf in the first place ?

15:36:27 mircea_popescu: ^

15:36:30 pete_dushenski: pork, neh ?

15:36:40 mircea_popescu: maybe they have special hoover-pigs

15:36:41 mircea_popescu: no hooves.

15:36:50 adlai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(food)#Israel

15:36:52 assbot: Spam (food) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIybnH )

15:36:54 pete_dushenski: "tails and assholes" as my dad used to call spam

15:37:00 ascii_field: hey, if prismoidal watermelons...

15:37:02 ascii_field: why not pig.

15:37:03 adlai: "Also, a kosher variant of Spam, known as Loof (Hebrew: לוף‎, a Hebrew linguistic play on meatloaf), was produced by Richard Levi, and mostly used as part of field rations by the Israel Defense Forces."

15:37:13 adlai: "and was finally removed from rations when production ceased in 2009." LOL

15:37:16 adlai: these things keep forever

15:37:29 adlai: removed from rations... now that's my laugh for the day

15:37:43 mircea_popescu: dude, it's the wikipedia. it's right!

15:37:53 adlai: oh but it officially is removed from rations

15:37:59 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's the lack of cud chewing, not the hooves that makes pigs unkosher

15:38:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i srsly do not see ANY merit to this "location" bs << one of us is carrying suitcase of $gadgets to the other. that's -location-, l0l.

15:38:24 mod6: funkenstein_: thanks for the info.

15:38:38 pete_dushenski: i recently learned that ostrich and 'hares' (presumably rabbits too?) are also not kosher

15:38:43 pete_dushenski: this was news to me.

15:38:51 ascii_field: 'Going Galt' << somehow everybody forgets that the character in the book had a fucking -invisibility machine- hiding his fort

15:38:52 adlai: in basic training, when random MREs had loof, the sergeant gave us this big lecture about how it'd been "removed from the war-waging bible" (literal translation), and we'd probably never see it again

15:39:08 ascii_field: 'galt' without the cloaking device is like superman without the cape

15:39:17 ascii_field: (or whatever the flying widget is)

15:39:21 adlai: the cape gave superman his power!?

15:39:26 adlai: maybe samson without the dreads

15:39:29 mircea_popescu: i thouhgt it was his butt

15:39:29 ascii_field: ^

15:39:41 ascii_field: samson, sure.

15:40:07 pete_dushenski: buttless superman... is but a man

15:40:10 mircea_popescu: incidentally... i find it kinda lulzy that arabs etc don't go all bear. but...

15:40:27 ascii_field: wut

15:40:31 ascii_field: bear?

15:40:33 ascii_field: wrong geography

15:40:34 adlai: kosher laws are such a messy patchwork of whitelists and blacklists

15:40:40 Chillum: It would be like aquaman without... wait what does he have?

15:40:57 Chillum: soggyness.

15:41:09 adlai: like satoshi without MSVC

15:41:13 mircea_popescu: hence "dry vagina"

15:41:18 mircea_popescu: ahahaha OUCH. zing.

15:41:21 pete_dushenski: adlai: "must refrain from random things to hone your discipline" isn't the worst approach in the world

15:41:29 adlai: pete_dushenski: what?

15:41:34 ascii_field: nubbins`: maybe once you get enough toys it'll be a fair trade << all the toys i buy put together are dwarfed by the cost of living like a human being (e.g., not having rabid hyenas in my home, nor within 100 metres, etc.)

15:41:47 *: adlai is being told to stop dicking around on IRC?

15:41:49 ascii_field: and this ^ is not a toy, it is as essential as clothes to me.

15:41:51 pete_dushenski: adlai: uh kashrut ?

15:41:57 adlai: ah

15:41:58 mircea_popescu: ascii_field 100 metres is tough. within 100 metres of me there's like 3 different theatres.

15:42:06 mircea_popescu: you should hear the rabid hyenas lol.

15:42:06 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: flexible figure

15:42:42 Chillum: nice to hear metric

15:42:51 ascii_field: and enduring hyenas by choice, because you're into keeping zoo, or culturing fleas, etc. is rather different from financially forcible tour of duty in hyena cage

15:43:34 mircea_popescu: they get together and squeal, it's fucking incredible. that particular 16 yo "pls fuck me" unconscious thing.

15:43:46 ascii_field: adlai:anthem is precisely the correct dose of ayn rand for a healthy brain << i will admit to having read pretty much all of rand

15:43:50 ascii_field: (big whoop)

15:44:21 adlai: and how accurate is my perscription?

15:44:32 mircea_popescu: you read pretty much all of apparently every idiot available

15:44:34 ascii_field: adlai: i'm with naggum on this one

15:44:42 mircea_popescu: and YET you protest the hyena

15:44:44 adlai: !s naggum rand

15:44:45 assbot: 0 results for 'naggum rand' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=naggum+rand

15:44:49 ascii_field: (short version: dedicated zoologist? yes, read. no? don't)

15:46:15 ascii_field: adlai: https://web.archive.org/web/20150209100751/http://open.salon.com/blog/kent_pitman/2010/01/08/erik_naggum_on_atlas_shrugged

15:46:18 assbot: Erik Naggum on Atlas Shrugged - Kent Pitman - Open Salon ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIzcwc )

15:46:22 ascii_field: ^ somebody cache this before censored entirely?

15:46:40 ascii_field: (naggum's is the part on the annoying black background colour)

15:46:42 adlai: it's not in xach's thingy?

15:46:46 ascii_field: it is not

15:46:49 ascii_field: because not on usenet

15:46:51 mircea_popescu: archive.today

15:46:51 adlai: ahright

15:46:56 ascii_field: posthumously published private letter

15:47:26 adlai: how about http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Writing/OS/Naggum-on-Atlas-Shrugged.html

15:47:27 assbot: Kent Pitman's Blogging: Erik Naggum on Atlas Shrugged ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIzl2C )

15:48:04 ascii_field: <mircea_popescu> and YET you protest the hyena << so i had a quiet and physically clean upbringing. this is who i am. i get that it gives me a short life expectancy, yes. but jumping from cliffs doesn't grow wings, no.

15:48:36 mircea_popescu: just observing that the writing it produces doesn't seem to bother as much ? how come ?

15:48:55 ascii_field: because can be zoologist to text on a screen

15:49:05 mircea_popescu: why this not that ?

15:49:28 ascii_field: e.g., why did hanbot work well as a forum demolitions expert, but isn't (afaik!) a soldier in meatspace ?

15:49:41 mircea_popescu: now howdja know that ?

15:49:45 ascii_field: i do not.

15:49:51 ascii_field: only conjecture.

15:50:18 mircea_popescu: imo more competent as soldier than forum diogenes

15:50:24 mats: http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-interest-benchmarks-go-negative-banks-may-have-to-pay-borrowers-1428939338

15:50:26 assbot: Tumbling Interest Rates in Europe Leaves Some Banks Owing Money on Loans to Borrowers - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1CFq83W )

15:53:22 pete_dushenski: ascii_field: http://contravex.com/Erik_Naggum_on_Atlas_Shrugged.txt << done just last month :)

15:53:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CFqMP1 )

15:53:30 ascii_field: pete_dushenski: neato

15:55:12 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but to answer question, my meatspace idiocy filter is simply not as strong as the conceptual one. to ask 'why' is like asking why my legs are not as long as mircea_popescu's

15:55:20 adlai: pete_dushenski: why does the http response never terminate? it's a .txt...

15:55:30 ascii_field: i.e., the question may well have a biological answer, but knowing it does me little good.

15:55:32 mats: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102584586

15:55:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIAdUS )

15:55:42 mircea_popescu: but do you know it is in fact a biological answer.

15:55:43 mats: ^ "US business inventories rise; sales flat"

15:56:20 ascii_field: mats: 'the chocolate ratio went up to 25 grams from the old 50'

15:56:20 pete_dushenski: adlai: good question ? anyone else seeing this ?

15:57:06 adlai: (are you?)

15:57:42 pete_dushenski: mats: ascii_field this is the city of edmonton's "we improved our asphalt technologee in the 1990s but it turned out to last 1/4 as long as the stuff from the 1960s"

15:57:42 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

16:01:03 pete_dushenski: adlai: i am actually, and now i have no idea if this is something to be addressed, and if so, how.

16:01:52 adlai: the common cold of the information age

16:02:40 *: adlai has seen this often on many sites, only now commented about it

16:04:02 adlai: oh, it's sporadic: reloading the page now has "fixed" it

16:04:24 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but do you know it is in fact a biological answer << after a certain amount of exposure, and getting weaker rather than stronger, one leans that - if there was an age where having one's legs pulled on, would have lengthened them - that age is past

16:04:33 ascii_field: *learns that

16:10:38 adlai: mircea_popescu: so are the average price diamonds in mpex thumbnails intentionally so dark as to cause the bewildered visitor to question his eyesight or sanity, until he confirms that they are in fact of different hue?

16:16:23 ascii_field: nubbins`: the only thing that'll make alf walk away is alf << nubbins` would probably be rather surprised to learn that - other than the physical separation from wildlife (e.g., nubbins`'s roommate) - i have very few luxuries

16:16:54 ascii_field: (i do not consider eating genuine, vs. recycled food, a luxury. just as air on a space capsule is not a luxury, even if it costs what gold costs down on earth)

16:19:50 mats: warehouse of computer antiques sounds like a lot of luxuries to me.

16:20:15 ascii_field: mats: 'warehouse' is a bit of exaggeration. the whole lot would (and did, when i moved) fit in a small van.

16:21:10 mats: in any event -- i'm envious. my living space is too small to accommodate much more than what i could fit in a hatchback

16:22:20 mats: rent is not nearly as usurious, as, say, DC, but a space like mine (own room, roommates adjacent) costs... $1k/mo

16:22:46 ascii_field: mats: i lived in a flat quite like (from what i can tell) yours, for most of a decade.

16:23:17 ascii_field: and my new digs aren't quite big enough to make any difference space-wise. i moved to a free-standing building mainly to get further away from other human beings

16:24:06 ascii_field: admittedly i no longer have the 'nazi submarine' atmosphere of the old flat (bulkheads in every conceivable space, objects hanging to fill every gap, etc.)

16:24:28 mats: i prefer to live with other humans. that way, they can find my corpse before the smell of decay sets in. hopefully.

16:24:43 adlai: why would the smell bother you?

16:26:02 adlai: "live fast, die young, leave a good-looking corpse" says nothing about the absence of respirators for the autopsy team

16:26:04 mats: so some folks have time to hunt the man that did the deed

16:27:56 ascii_field: mats: i don't live alone, but with pet

16:28:14 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

16:28:31 mats: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/prosecutors-suspect-man-hacked-lottery-computers-to-score-winning-ticket hue.

16:28:32 assbot: Prosecutors suspect man hacked lottery computers to score winning ticket | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CKtf9D )

16:30:03 ascii_field: run moar winblows (tm)

16:31:08 ascii_field: 'The former security director "was 'obsessed' with root kits, a type of computer program that can be installed quickly, set to do just about anything, and then self-destruct without a trace," prosecutors wrote. They went on to say a witness would testify at trial that Tipton told him before December 2010 that he had a self-destructing rootkit.' << 'hands off the specialist toolz, plebe'

16:31:34 Chillum: why did he not get an accomplice to buy the ticket

16:32:39 lobbes: maybe he didn't have a wot

16:32:51 Chillum: How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes

16:33:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00029823 = 4.4735 BTC [+]

16:33:17 Chillum: his hostile code should have sat dormant for 6 months, then someone with no obvious connection to him should have got the ticket

16:33:18 ascii_field: when corrupt orc from gaggle of equally-corrupt similar orcs is charged with 'corruption' - what is the reason, always and invariably ?

16:34:07 williamdunne: Got caught?

16:34:15 mats: defection.

16:34:21 williamdunne: To make the goblins think they care

16:34:41 ascii_field: mats, williamdunne: didn't share with superiors. or pissed'em off in some other way.

16:36:02 mircea_popescu: adlai nop

16:36:52 mircea_popescu: <mats> warehouse of computer antiques sounds like a lot of luxuries to me. << anything sounds like a luxury to someone somewhere!

16:38:22 mircea_popescu: <Chillum> How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes << whole thing reads to me more like a case of baxies than anything legitimately prosecutable.

16:39:06 mircea_popescu: "man that didn't shoot the cop had a gun! neighbours saw it!"

16:53:02 ascii_field: <Chillum> his hostile code should have sat dormant for 6 months, then someone with no obvious connection to him should have got the ticket << i suppose this is when nubbins` says 'learn the dark marketz, anyone can!' and mircea_popescu tells us about the superiority of human dark org vs relying on machines

16:55:30 *: ascii_field wonders how many years of jail are given for predicting the output of a legit, un-pwned winblows rng in lottery

16:58:43 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:07:17 Pierre_Rochard: !up zooko

17:08:13 ascii_field: Chillum: How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes << autists like ulbricht/dpr get nailed by trusting in meat. 'eusocial' folks like mr lottery -also- get nailed by trusting in meat. just like when an airplane falls, pilots and passengers get same fate

17:08:36 ascii_field: does not so much matter that one 'knew how to fly' and other - did not

17:09:25 ascii_field: the mistake of each, to the extent the stories publicly known are even factual, is 'dunning-kruger'-ing their reach far past their grasp.

17:11:58 ascii_field: the 'up-side' - perhaps the only one - of being a hermit monster is that the tools built for nailing the 'eusocial' don't work on you. i.e. you negrate a usg shill in your mind at most forty seconds after initial contact

17:12:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00029786 = 1.5042 BTC [-]

17:14:36 *: ascii_field grants that somewhere on the far outskirts of the retardation spectrum, there lies the land of 'there are no shills! finally someone is willing to be my -phriend!- 111!!111 stop insulting my -phriendz-!!!11' but has not, fortunately, gone there.

17:24:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00030217 = 5.0613 BTC [+]

17:26:25 lobbes: even hermits must put some trust in meat? Is not the hermit, himself, meat?

17:26:51 ascii_field: lobbes: the context is important here

17:27:04 ascii_field: 'trust in meat' in the thread was 'what nailed lottery-man'

17:27:16 ascii_field: that is, the fact that he did not stick 100% to diddling the machines under cover of dark

17:27:21 ascii_field: but involved -people- in the scheme

17:27:25 ascii_field: ditto dpr

17:27:43 ascii_field: 'what three know, the sow knows' (TM)

17:29:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00029741 = 4.1043 BTC [-] {3}

17:29:13 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:31:33 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it << what did you buy and play with instead? a nagant, testing how it feels in the mouth, as in mircea_popescu's 'dulap' story ? <<< not in so many words :P

17:33:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00029339 = 3.55 BTC [-] {2}

17:33:30 nubbins`: <+adlai> like satoshi without MSVC <<< my kingdom for some more sides

17:39:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00030217 = 6.6024 BTC [+]

17:39:19 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> <mircea_popescu> and YET you protest the hyena << so i had a quiet and physically clean upbringing. this is who i am. i get that it gives me a short life expectancy, yes. but jumping from cliffs doesn't grow wings, no. <<< the sets of {co-inhabitants} and {dirtbags} don't have as complete an overlap as you'd think

17:40:22 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> (i do not consider eating genuine, vs. recycled food, a luxury. just as air on a space capsule is not a luxury, even if it costs what gold costs down on earth) <<< i don't fully buy into the "it's cheaper to eat shitty" mentality, but it's my understanding that the dynamics involved therein are vastly different in your country

17:43:52 nubbins`: that said, i'm pretty sure a 15kg bag of rice doesn't cost much more than a few shit sandwiches from mcd's anywhere in north america

17:49:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00029196 = 3.4451 BTC [-] {2}

17:51:13 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you for your considerations, you're right. nubbins` thank you for comprehend.

17:51:45 nubbins`: wait, i understood smth?

17:51:50 ascii_field: nubbins`: not even chinese live on rice alone

17:52:06 ascii_field: nubbins`: go try eating, e.g., plankton for the rest of your life

17:52:08 nubbins`: nor do people live on big macs alone

17:52:09 nubbins`: 8)

17:52:52 ascii_field: nubbins`: academic, though. food is scarcely a tenth of it

17:53:10 nubbins`: but i'm of the opinion that very few adult north americans have even the faintest idea of how to feed themselves properly, let alone on a sensible budget

17:53:41 nubbins`: ascii_field your average bezzle cubicle dweller prob spends 25% of gross income on food

17:54:24 felipelalli: nubbins`: you said "don't worry, you're new" something like that.

17:54:31 nubbins`: oh right, yeah

17:55:17 felipelalli: nubbins`: don't worry, selective memory.

18:08:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14059 @ 0.00029274 = 4.1156 BTC [+]

18:28:43 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:32:07 ascii_field: nubbins`: you are quite right, that the situation is very different in usa.

18:32:33 ascii_field: nubbins`: if i did not have a full-time pet to handle the food problem, i would probably have to survive on something like military rations.

18:43:37 BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> nubbins`: if i did not have a full-time pet to handle the food problem, i would probably have to survive on something like military rations. << Sprats come in can, RATIONS!!!

18:44:29 ascii_field: laugh BingoBoingo, but i did this.

18:46:04 ascii_field: does not make for effective 'mens sana in corpore sano', this.

18:59:43 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:13:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00030217 = 2.1303 BTC [+]

19:26:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00030217 = 11.4825 BTC [+]

19:49:44 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

19:49:53 mircea_popescu: military rations are good ?!

19:49:53 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:49:53 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:50:01 ben_vulpes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/32ik14/dear_portland_weekly_rantrage_thread_41315/ << in case anyone wants a taste of braindamaged portlanders

19:50:04 assbot: DEAR PORTLAND: WEEKLY RANT/RAGE THREAD 4/13/15 : Portland ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfIRWk )

19:50:04 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla assbot died ?

19:50:04 asciilifeform: eggog! (tm)

19:50:04 ascii_field: go figure.

19:50:04 mircea_popescu: lok just clogged.

19:50:34 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: military rations are good ?! << nope - very bad, but with minimal effort. like the 'hiring shaman - hire cheapest' theorem.

20:03:57 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100731 << ty!

20:03:57 assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 10:57:38; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100564 << you want it, you got it. vip treatment beotch!!1

20:13:20 chetty: so standing in a line I was noticing all the people doing whatever on cellphones, all I could think was "For this we evolved opposable thumbs?"

20:18:47 lobbes: to be fair, I am quite guilty of this. Either that or stare frantically around the room while trying not to make eye contact with anyone

20:19:33 lobbes: good time to catch up on the logs, eh

20:20:02 mats: i can't even imagine the vast number of neck, back, and general injuries from poor posture the world will see in a decade

20:20:24 hanbot: ascii_field cooking *is* minimal effort, just gotta learn.

20:20:54 hanbot: why not make eye contact?

20:21:55 asciilifeform: eggog! (tm)

20:21:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00030217 = 6.2096 BTC [+]

20:22:06 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:22:17 ascii_field: l0l wrong button fail

20:22:23 ascii_field: eye contact << because when you make eye contact, folks shoot lasers from their eyes into yours

20:22:33 lobbes: ^

20:22:48 adlai: actually there's this game a friend of mine "invented", where you must maintain eye contact whenever it is accidentally (or not) made with a stranger

20:23:04 adlai: this was all fun and games until he met somebody else who appeared to be playing the same game

20:23:26 adlai: (you lose if you're the first to break eye contact)

20:23:56 adlai: there was glass between them, the other guy was sitting in the outside patio of a cafe... and they just stared at eachother until my friend gave up

20:25:54 hanbot: no prize?

20:26:17 adlai: had the glass not been there, i guess tehy'd have been required to either fight or mate

20:26:25 adlai: they would be eachother's prize

20:28:01 hanbot: pretty good safety glass then.

20:31:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13378 @ 0.0003009 = 4.0254 BTC [-]

20:33:27 ben_vulpes: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/588076749562318849

20:33:29 assbot: Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.

20:35:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8374 @ 0.0003009 = 2.5197 BTC [-]

20:35:45 adlai: bird landed on safety glass, but too hard for survival

20:36:04 adlai: this elon, he's a clever guy. oughtta do marketing.

20:36:29 mircea_popescu: ahh that sweet sweet 50mbps pipe

20:36:47 ascii_field: wut

20:36:49 mircea_popescu: 3gb ? 1 minute!

20:36:54 ascii_field: 50 is sweet ?

20:37:01 mircea_popescu: im old.

20:39:23 mircea_popescu: when restorepkg takes longer to process than wget takes to download one can't complain.

20:39:29 mircea_popescu: and btw, that's one spiffy script!

20:41:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i had no idea there was restorepkg for a «Сетунь» !

20:41:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18386 @ 0.00030217 = 5.5557 BTC [+]

20:41:33 mircea_popescu: for a who ?

20:41:52 ascii_field: http://www.computer-museum.ru/histussr/12-6.htm

20:41:53 assbot: МЦВМ Сетунь. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GHPu7K )

20:41:56 ascii_field: ^ the ternary one

20:41:57 mircea_popescu: lol

20:42:08 ascii_field: you know, the computer mircea_popescu uses

20:42:28 ascii_field: or was that just for signing btc tx.

20:42:39 mircea_popescu: im hosting fraudsters on cpanel

20:42:45 mircea_popescu: what did you think!

20:43:07 *: ascii_field did not think. was mostly occupied with mining one last bucket of salt before blasting off

20:43:58 mircea_popescu: lol. gl.

20:57:58 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

21:04:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7848 @ 0.0003009 = 2.3615 BTC [-]

21:13:59 TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats

21:14:03 gribble: Current Blocks: 352154 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 645 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 4 hours, 31 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48730678236.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -1.44745

21:14:12 TheNewDeal: ;;bids 200

21:14:15 gribble: Bitfinex | There are currently 9989.9373 bitcoins demanded at or over 200.0 USD, worth 2101912.00544 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0095 seconds

21:14:54 TheNewDeal: ;;bids bitstamp 200

21:14:54 gribble: Error: 'bitstamp' is not a valid non-negative floating point number.

21:15:25 BingoBoingo: ;;bids --market buttstamp 200

21:15:25 gribble: Bitstamp | There are currently 2349.8963 bitcoins demanded at or over 200.0 USD, worth 483208.939584 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0509 seconds

21:15:34 BingoBoingo: ^ TheNewDeal

21:15:52 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker

21:15:53 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 218.05, Best ask: 218.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 218.1, 24 hour volume: 52461.868259, 24 hour low: 216.37, 24 hour high: 227.89, 24 hour vwap: None

21:16:00 ben_vulpes: cheep coins! getcher cheep coins!

21:16:04 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttstamp

21:16:06 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 215.24, Best ask: 215.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.26000, Last trade: 215.22, 24 hour volume: 18648.16191006, 24 hour low: 210.0, 24 hour high: 224.8, 24 hour vwap: 218.672310487

21:18:45 mats: whoa

21:18:57 mats: it moves

21:19:24 BingoBoingo: Also responds to buttstamp +1

21:20:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00030217 = 1.7979 BTC [+]

21:28:39 adlai: wtf

21:28:59 adlai: i swear, you stop looking at a market for a few days, and it goes crazy

21:29:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00030035 = 2.9434 BTC [-]

21:29:13 *: adlai brb selling dog for bitcoin

21:29:20 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

21:29:50 adlai: pawning may be a better term

21:50:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21547 @ 0.0002997 = 6.4576 BTC [-] {2}

21:54:39 TheNewDeal: thanks BB

21:58:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11315 @ 0.00030217 = 3.4191 BTC [+]

22:02:43 TheNewDeal: !down

22:02:50 TheNewDeal: !down TheNewDeal

22:04:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00030217 = 5.016 BTC [+]

22:06:13 jurov: lol TheNewDeal. what a statement.

22:12:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00030231 = 4.3835 BTC [+] {2}

22:34:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00030235 = 4.6562 BTC [+]

23:00:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00029738 = 4.1931 BTC [-] {2}

23:05:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00030235 = 6.2133 BTC [+]

23:12:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5710 @ 0.00030235 = 1.7264 BTC [+]

23:14:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27950 @ 0.000302 = 8.4409 BTC [-] {2}

23:28:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform jurov lobbes TheNewDeal menahem and everyone else who inquired : http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-how-i-ended-up-sueing-phoenix-nap-llc-on-how-ira-r-cadwells-mom-stephanies-going-to-lose-her-chula-vista-home-on-how-marcus-bohn-is-going-to-catch-a-lot-of-shit-for-that-on-assorted-oth/#footnote_0_60930

23:28:10 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ctY7WN )

23:28:15 mircea_popescu: orly.

23:51:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13532 @ 0.00030068 = 4.0688 BTC [-] {2}

23:52:05 BingoBoingo: Mega lol http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-how-i-ended-up-suing-phoenix-nap-llc-on-how-ira-r-cadwells-mom-stephanies-going-to-lose-her-chula-vista-home-on-how-marcus-bohn-is-going-to-catch-a-lot-of-shit-for-that-on-assorted-othe/#footnote_3_60930

23:52:06 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1cu24Li )

23:53:44 mircea_popescu: innit.

23:54:16 mircea_popescu: amusingly enough the derps should even know who i am, but of course nobody keeps any sort of track of their customers these days.

23:54:21 mircea_popescu: what was that casino quote,

23:54:42 mircea_popescu: "Today, it's all gone. You get a whale show up with four million in a suitcase, and some twenty-five-year-old hotel school kid is gonna want his Social Security Number."

23:55:27 BingoBoingo: Seriously

23:56:20 BingoBoingo: But I don't think Meatspace Vegas managed to elude the USG's money tracking slime mold

23:59:42 mircea_popescu: tbh i think people by and large just gave up

23:59:50 mircea_popescu: like, on life. not even seriously trying anymore.