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Transcript for 15-02-2014, 1865 lines:

00:00:15 ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDXuPQ9ML9E

00:00:15 ozbot: Get Konnected with The Kronies Action Figures - YouTube

00:01:21 davout: wow

00:10:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17498 @ 0.00087494 = 15.3097 BTC [+]

00:13:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00087465 = 5.073 BTC [-]

00:23:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1600 @ 0.00038239 = 0.6118 BTC [-] {5}

00:25:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06899997 = 0.414 BTC [+]

00:25:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3276 @ 0.00087494 = 2.8663 BTC [+]

00:30:57 mod6: lol TAT, that was awesome

00:33:52 mod6: "oh no! I'm underwater, I need a bail out!" lmao

00:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8987 @ 0.0008749 = 7.8627 BTC [-] {2}

00:35:20 pankkake: http://thekronies.com/ (but you can't buy them… yet)

00:35:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.07399999 = 0.148 BTC [+] {2}

00:35:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.12210004 BTC [-]

00:36:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.07399999 = 0.222 BTC [+]

00:36:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12210003 = 0.3663 BTC [-]

00:36:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+]

00:38:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

00:40:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.12210003 BTC [-]

00:40:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

00:43:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00087526 = 20.2185 BTC [+] {2}

00:49:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.00297571 = 0.2083 BTC [+]

00:51:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06899997 = 0.414 BTC [+]

01:14:19 mod6: http://youtu.be/ob9Ak1t09Ao

01:14:19 ozbot: Protest at Mt Gox, Tokyo, 14th February 2014 - YouTube

01:14:26 mod6: lmao

01:17:51 pankkake: from the looks of it, the guy ate all the bitcoins

01:18:08 pankkake: does it work like a piñata?

01:19:27 asciilifeform: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jAVGHwajDek/Rug-h4p-SAI/AAAAAAAAABY/vFJNNHVb9I4/s1600-h/bus.jpeg

01:19:27 ozbot: bus.jpeg (image)

01:20:55 mod6: haha, magicaltux came on the lamers bus

01:21:49 kakobrekla: i think he runs that company too

01:21:51 kakobrekla: free pass!

01:27:36 benkay: afternoon

01:28:30 kakobrekla: heya

01:44:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06899999 = 0.69 BTC [+] {2}

01:58:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00087465 = 5.4228 BTC [-]

02:17:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00087537 = 13.4807 BTC [+] {2}

02:26:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.19376446 = 0.3875 BTC [+]

02:28:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

02:30:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00087465 = 4.2421 BTC [-]

03:02:04 moiety: meh

03:02:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 145 @ 0.00297927 = 0.432 BTC [+] {4}

03:10:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06099999 = 0.366 BTC [-]

03:13:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00515 = 0.1288 BTC [-]

03:15:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51800001 BTC [-]

03:18:14 ThickAsThieves: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/can-bitcoin-come-back-from-multiple-hacks-~XPcnslQRTu4drafGngWdw.html

03:18:17 ozbot: Can Bitcoin Come Back from Multiple Hacks?: Video - Bloomberg

03:21:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00087559 = 9.1061 BTC [+]

03:23:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2207 @ 0.00087559 = 1.9324 BTC [+]

03:24:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4993 @ 0.00087563 = 4.372 BTC [+]

03:26:07 MisterE: ThickAsThieves: you read about the dude who flew to Tokyo to confront Gox CEO?

03:27:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00022499 = 0.225 BTC [+]

03:33:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00087465 = 9.3588 BTC [-]

03:38:53 pankkake: http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?type=&nick=&thing=GOXBTC&otherthing=&eitherthing=¬es=

03:38:54 ozbot: #bitcoin-otc order book

03:43:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10224 @ 0.00087563 = 8.9524 BTC [+]

03:45:26 chetty: haha goxbtc, is that a new alt coin?

03:46:03 joecool: it's a fractional reserve currency based on bitcoin

03:56:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00087465 = 9.4462 BTC [-]

04:06:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00087463 = 5.5976 BTC [-] {2}

04:15:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06899999 = 0.69 BTC [+] {2}

04:28:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 13051 @ 0.00021537 = 2.8108 BTC [-] {10}

04:38:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9525 @ 0.00087463 = 8.3309 BTC [-]

04:47:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00087564 = 8.4937 BTC [+] {2}

04:53:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 94 @ 0.00522854 = 0.4915 BTC [+] {10}

04:54:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 136 @ 0.00525205 = 0.7143 BTC [+] {5}

05:03:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.08179999 = 0.818 BTC [-] {4}

05:05:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 73 @ 0.00539358 = 0.3937 BTC [+] {4}

05:06:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 128 @ 0.00539574 = 0.6907 BTC [+] {5}

05:07:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 77 @ 0.00539999 = 0.4158 BTC [+]

05:10:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15655 @ 0.00087423 = 13.6861 BTC [-] {3}

05:22:58 mircea_popescu: lmao @bash

05:23:46 KRS-One: .bait

05:23:50 KRS-One: .bait

05:23:51 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/ee677c6897b25e3cced894c5b5ecd7fd/tumblr_mej4zorNTX1qg7sdjo1_r1_1280.jpg

05:25:07 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgfZiDJIMAA-_yT.png

05:28:02 Duffer1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Md1Ms6EEbQ

05:28:03 ozbot: Darkplace - One Track Lover - YouTube

05:28:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06745001 = 0.3373 BTC [-]

05:36:09 moiety: merry 15th all! can get on with the rest of the year now.

05:36:55 moiety: wtf lol how to walk on ice? i've seen it all.. no, wait, re-enact that poster with gold crackhead...then i will have seen everything

05:37:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.0008738 = 6.903 BTC [-] {2}

05:37:58 Duffer1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu51vkm0SuQ

05:37:58 ozbot: Fenslerfilm GI Joe PSA 05 - ice - YouTube

05:38:26 moiety: http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/14/gallery-you-wont-believe-what-the-authorities-found-in-this-mexican-drug-lords-villa-4304530/

05:38:35 ozbot: Mexican drug lord's house: You won't believe what the authorities found in this Mexican drug Lord's

05:52:33 cazalla: mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi

05:53:00 cazalla: that's for you Duffer1

05:53:13 Duffer1: hehe

05:55:03 asciilifeform: moiety: probably a counterfeiter's shop, as well as whatever else they did.

05:55:04 mircea_popescu: anything good ?

05:55:30 Duffer1: http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/22-more-gold-machine-guns-and-pistols-most-were-never-fired-just-held-for-collection-value.jpg lol

05:55:58 moiety: i actually think gold guns end up looking cheap

05:56:00 mircea_popescu: what's with people and gold guns

05:56:03 mircea_popescu: gold makes shitty gun

05:56:05 mircea_popescu: s

05:56:11 asciilifeform: plated.

05:56:27 asciilifeform: no one in his right mind would make an actual gold ak

05:56:53 mircea_popescu: or would they

05:57:14 moiety: i would like a rainbow sig

05:57:29 moiety: i bet they would if they could

05:57:39 moiety: rainbow sig: http://www.kygunco.com/prodimages/30277-DEFAULT-L.jpg very pretty

05:57:40 asciilifeform: i say plated. the rivets are in the right places, and if it were solid gold, it'd be welded.

05:57:49 asciilifeform: unless it is a perversely slavish imitation.

05:58:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00087371 = 12.5814 BTC [-] {2}

05:58:08 BingoBoingo: I dunno if a gold barrel could do anything other than explode.

05:58:19 moiety: no one swept me off my feet yesterday, yous will have to put up with me a bit longer,sorry

05:58:35 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: depends whether one insisted on firing it...

05:59:18 moiety: would gold not just melt or buckle on firing?

05:59:50 asciilifeform: certainly.

06:01:19 asciilifeform: the most interesting thing in the picture is, well... not actually in the picture.

06:01:36 asciilifeform: that is: 'why now'

06:05:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5866 @ 0.00087454 = 5.1301 BTC [+]

06:12:02 B007: I made a bash script to txt me hourly google trends; should be interesting

06:15:39 asciilifeform: anyone else find it curious that these 'bust' photos never seem to feature gold bars?

06:15:43 asciilifeform: or even simulacra thereof

06:16:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.55498489 = 3.3299 BTC [+] {5}

06:16:42 moiety: i hadn't thought of that but it's a really good point, i would rather bars than all those notes

06:17:19 asciilifeform: likewise, quite a few of these shots look rather familiar.

06:17:31 asciilifeform: hence, probably a stage set.

06:17:57 asciilifeform: unless all the mexican barons share the same lion.

06:19:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00087454 = 7.9583 BTC [+]

06:19:47 moiety: lololol

06:20:10 moiety: nice house though

06:21:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 36 @ 0.08977719 = 3.232 BTC [+] {7}

06:22:10 moiety: i thought that was wrong

06:22:20 moiety: they say black leopards... they are jaguars

06:23:17 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I imagine the gold bars are better concealed than the plated firearms.

06:23:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 8 @ 0.10999999 = 0.88 BTC [+]

06:25:52 moiety: bars are aninvestment, guns are a collection though

06:26:16 asciilifeform: what, then, are the benjamins?

06:28:13 moiety: ijust mean you dont get bars to look at and put in cabinets

06:33:52 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The Benjamins are probably toilet paper

06:35:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4050 @ 0.00087454 = 3.5419 BTC [+]

06:36:48 Vexual: Hey BingoBoingo, did your openex withdrewing work?

06:40:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i always imagined they're non-functioning

06:40:16 mircea_popescu: not even holes drilled in the barrel

06:40:38 BingoBoingo: Vexual: It did indeed

06:41:10 Vexual: Thre cool, thanks

06:44:03 mircea_popescu: anyone here rebelmouse.com ?

06:46:23 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Any reason to try it. Homepage only seems to have buzzwords

06:46:49 mircea_popescu: no but it linked to fraudsters lots

06:46:59 mircea_popescu: so i figured 50-50 it's sopmeone here.

06:47:22 Vexual: only 360 readers?

06:48:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, since im in there some gems :

06:48:39 mircea_popescu: - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com 122 138

06:48:39 mircea_popescu: [...]

06:48:39 mircea_popescu: - http://www.loper-os.org 73 73

06:48:39 mircea_popescu: - http://qz.com/174757/bitcoin-company-offers-stock-denominated-in... 68 68

06:48:55 mircea_popescu: seems stan beats atlantic media.

06:49:06 BingoBoingo: lol

06:49:31 mircea_popescu: considering how much that adventure cost...

06:49:38 BingoBoingo: I've been finding odd content aggregators linking me from the start.

06:50:21 mircea_popescu: yeah there's a slew of those

06:50:47 mircea_popescu: semalt.com seosatnight.com etcetc

06:52:53 B007: mircea_popescu: what would you pay 1000 btc for?

06:55:21 mircea_popescu: the new york times

06:56:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I hope you mean the whole operation.

06:56:32 mircea_popescu: well yes.

06:58:35 Vexual: Imagine the page 3 girls

06:58:44 B007: I wonder if bitcoin is going to go up

06:58:49 B007: maybe I should buy

06:59:20 asciilifeform: afaik mouse is a lameraggregator.

06:59:32 asciilifeform: slurps crap from reddit et al.

06:59:47 mircea_popescu: o via reddit huhg

07:00:17 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/New_York_Times_Frontpage_1914-07-29.png

07:02:00 Vexual: manifesto from emporer

07:03:20 BingoBoingo: Vexual: And NYT doesn't have page 3 girls, yet...

07:03:51 Vexual: no i might have been confusing it with the sun

07:06:05 Vexual: what stock prices would you print for exchanges that don't close?

07:07:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00087391 = 12.6717 BTC [-] {3}

07:19:04 mircea_popescu: 24hrw

07:24:36 mircea_popescu: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ellen-page-comes-as-gay-680563

07:24:36 ozbot: Ellen Page Comes Out As Gay: 'I Am Tired of Lying by Omission' (Exclusive) - The Hollywood Reporter

07:24:43 mircea_popescu: i guess she;s kind-of hot now

07:24:52 moiety: i was just reading that too

07:24:57 mircea_popescu: provided she doesn't start dating elen degeneratis or some shit

07:26:18 moiety: also got this http://i.imgur.com/sy2sQci.png people are dicks

07:26:35 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00194567 = 0.8756 BTC [-]

07:28:01 mircea_popescu: ew

07:29:15 Vexual: juno the one about the hot lesbian?

07:31:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00087481 = 16.7089 BTC [+] {2}

07:35:06 moiety: what's .co.za again? south africa?

07:35:16 mircea_popescu: zaire ?

07:35:23 Vexual: south africa

07:35:46 moiety: so SA people send me a funeral notice (in scotland) for american funeral home. very good asshats

07:35:58 Vexual: zef as

07:36:13 mircea_popescu: wow it is sa

07:37:01 moiety: true arseholes are a special breed of people aren't they

07:37:23 Vexual: interesting place

07:37:54 Vexual: its a bit like australia if the dutch knocked it up first

07:37:57 moiety: i wouldn't like to go

07:38:24 moiety: i knew a girl here thatleft age 8 to live there, came back in her 20s

07:38:46 moiety: she hated it

07:39:16 mircea_popescu: i knew a girl that loved it, then got raped for being white, aged about 15,

07:39:29 mircea_popescu: then couldn't get anyone prosecuted for it out of the entire gang, so she left once she was 18

07:39:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 700 @ 0.000155 = 0.1085 BTC [+]

07:40:09 B007: wow

07:41:46 MisterE: moiety: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/fake-funeral-notice-scam-low-fraudsters-ftc/story?id=22498185&google_editors_picks=true

07:41:53 MisterE: looks like you got phished

07:41:55 moiety: wow raped because she was white?

07:42:41 mircea_popescu: kinda how it works in south africa.

07:42:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00087543 = 4.3772 BTC [+]

07:43:00 MisterE: security for whites is crazy there

07:43:07 MisterE: armed guards with AKs and shit

07:43:11 MisterE: place is a mess yo

07:43:17 moiety: wow MisterE good to see. it did try to get me to d/l something but i cancelled it. will i be ok?

07:43:18 Vexual: isn't there 10+ spoken languages right in cape town?

07:43:50 mircea_popescu: moiety possibly.

07:43:54 MisterE: hope so moiety but your computer can download stuff without you knowing, especially if there any known vunerabilities in your browser

07:44:23 moiety: better run a malwarebytes scan then?

07:44:25 Vexual: are you in the market for a funeral?

07:44:40 MisterE: personally, if it's a win box I'd take it offline and boot up with a scanner boot disk

07:44:48 moiety: no i got all mine booked up last month Vexual

07:44:53 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00212562 = 0.9565 BTC [+]

07:45:03 moiety: kk MisterE just scared me brb

07:45:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 4300 @ 0.000155 = 0.6665 BTC [+]

07:46:55 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00195346 = 0.8791 BTC [-]

07:49:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 1469 @ 0.00060598 = 0.8902 BTC [+]

07:49:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00087565 = 13.2223 BTC [+]

07:55:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5061 @ 0.00087565 = 4.4317 BTC [+]

07:58:06 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00195346 = 0.8791 BTC [-]

08:06:21 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2UdJhqVsc8

08:06:22 ozbot: Jack Parow - Afrikaans is Dood - YouTube

08:10:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.0008758 = 5.9554 BTC [+] {2}

08:14:43 moiety: \o/

08:20:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00087464 = 16.3558 BTC [-] {3}

08:20:58 Vexual: disease free?

08:22:45 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/on-july-29-1914/

08:22:46 ozbot: On July 29, 1914 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

08:24:52 moiety: i hope so

08:24:58 moiety: 40 things!

08:25:29 moiety: yay i can read again

08:26:11 Vexual: i thought how in all probability noone alive on earth today bought that newspaper

08:26:59 Vexual: new yorkers dont live to 120 do they? all that smog

08:28:28 BingoBoingo: moiety: Do you want a loan you can apply to the purchase of fraudsters credits since you are in the WOT nao?

08:30:38 moiety: that's very kind and i would normally, but I'm not in a position to give myself deadlines at the moment BingoBoingo

08:31:25 benkay: i dunno moiety, you might be able to talk your way into a zero interest loan

08:31:33 benkay: spring bubble hasn't kicked in terribly hard yet

08:32:06 moiety: i just looked it up, i don;t actually need a loan, i just need to know how to buy now

08:33:11 moiety: it was last april it was low wasn't it? i remember

08:33:23 moiety: april/may time i think

08:33:30 mircea_popescu: benkay you mean asset boobl ?

08:33:47 BingoBoingo: moiety: Last february though there wasn't a prolongued dip like this.

08:34:04 moiety: but then china hadn't banned it last year

08:34:06 Vexual: get out in may and stay away

08:34:43 BingoBoingo: moiety: At this time last year the only serious Chinese involvement was ASICMiner.

08:36:12 BingoBoingo: ASICMIner was building to that really sharp bubble.

08:36:36 moiety: what's the current with bfl thesedays?

08:36:54 moiety: they had grovellers out in force in london in november

08:37:18 BingoBoingo: moiety: BFL still isn't shipping Monarchs

08:37:35 mircea_popescu: well they're only what, 5 months late ?

08:37:49 moiety: lol still? hhaha the guy at the london expo simply said: sorry

08:38:07 Duffer1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmOLtTGvsbM&feature=kp

08:38:07 ozbot: Toto - Rosanna - YouTube

08:38:37 BingoBoingo: moiety: First rule of Bitcoin is anything happening in London is at best Lols.

08:38:48 Vexual: hehe

08:38:58 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/DwxCBIizQYU

08:38:59 ozbot: Hohenfriedberger march + Prussian army - YouTube

08:40:23 BingoBoingo: So... I made about a 200% gain selling the bulk of my Altcoin today.

08:40:42 Vexual: i made 10% yesterday, who are we taking it from?

08:40:52 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo would you like to be my openex broker ? :D

08:40:56 Vexual: mike_c?

08:41:07 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe?

08:41:21 mircea_popescu: pankkake pls to pay to BingoBoingo 100k atc, let's see what he can do.

08:41:22 Vexual: fuck a man with a plan is the last thing i need

08:41:25 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you get a month.

08:41:33 mircea_popescu: have fun.

08:42:02 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: How much did you buy the ATC at?

08:42:12 Vexual: 125

08:42:22 Vexual: my guess

08:42:23 mircea_popescu: Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner! Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!

08:42:26 mircea_popescu: what diff does it make ?

08:42:43 KRS-One: .bait

08:42:44 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3g532Ex6K1qaooc8o1_500.jpg

08:42:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00087593 = 3.6789 BTC [+] {2}

08:42:55 KRS-One: damn its dark in there.

08:43:02 Vexual: lol krs-1 thats custom

08:43:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm just thinking if you have a target sort of gain I should shoot for.

08:43:10 mircea_popescu: nope.

08:43:19 Vexual: double the atc and bring back some btc

08:43:23 mircea_popescu: ^

08:44:11 BingoBoingo: I'll see what I can do.

08:44:50 mircea_popescu: don't get too wrapped up in it, it's alt after all.

08:46:11 BingoBoingo: Of course. I mean it wouldn't be worth it to copy the Doge profiteers and whore myself out in the name of Moon.

08:46:37 mircea_popescu: may its name be always cheez.

08:47:22 BingoBoingo: The z is important. No actual milk or rennet was used in the making of the cheez

08:49:12 Vexual: "we got the cheez!"

08:50:54 Vexual: scott cann:into the blue

08:51:05 BingoBoingo: This ATC trading thing would be so much easier if herbi was still in the game.

08:51:16 moiety: otc is not the place to paypal is it

08:51:56 BingoBoingo: moiety: It can be if both parties have rep appropriate to the amount being traded.

08:52:16 BingoBoingo: Paypal/Ebay have been on an anit-BTC warpath recently though.

08:52:42 moiety: i spend all my time telling others not to bother lol

08:53:09 moiety: bitcoin isn't a very easy world is it

08:53:28 BingoBoingo: moiety: Have you read Mircea's variety speak article yet?

08:53:37 moiety: yes

08:54:07 BingoBoingo: Finding things that don't work is easy. Things that work though are unknowable until after the fact.

08:56:36 BingoBoingo: My favorite part of ATC trading is it is like all of the trading I have ever done.

08:56:53 Vexual: ditto

08:58:14 moiety: i'm just entirely fed up of the hassle

08:58:50 moiety: I've never managed to buy it yet because of one problem or another

08:59:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00087319 = 5.3265 BTC [-] {2}

08:59:29 Vexual: perhaps the nigerians are a sign

08:59:51 BingoBoingo: moiety: Never bought what?

08:59:54 moiety: btc

09:00:18 moiety: someone else has always done it for me

09:02:55 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU

09:02:55 ozbot: Take The Money And Run - The Steve Miller Band (Lyrics + HQ) - YouTube

09:05:19 moiety: plus remember bingo, i was being paid it before, i had no need to buy

09:05:35 Vexual: nice

09:06:01 moiety: i only ever bought hosting with that, tipped the rest to other people

09:06:39 moiety: i have THE best email address BingoBoingo :D palindrome email address almost

09:07:06 Vexual: nigerians love palendromes

09:07:20 moiety: nigerians scare the hell out of me

09:07:58 moiety: all the compounds are armed guarded

09:09:16 Vexual: they see a palendromic email and theyre all like, this old coot is loaded!

09:09:57 Vexual: i should get lauxev.com for lolz

09:10:14 BingoBoingo: moiety: Back then you could have gotten BTC at $80 per

09:10:40 moiety: ik ik ik gah

09:11:19 moiety: will it ever dip that low again do you think?

09:12:09 BingoBoingo: moiety: Maybe on Gox?

09:12:17 moiety: lololol

09:12:31 moiety: gox will die this year surely?

09:12:33 Vexual: smells like a rouge goo dev

09:12:46 Vexual: paretheses ommitted

09:12:57 BingoBoingo: 10 K BTC sometime this year is more likely than $80 for BTC on any platform that can actually deliver BTC.

09:13:48 BingoBoingo: moiety: Gox died last summer.

09:14:29 moiety: it's just like the queen, just clining on to the throne

09:14:33 moiety: clinging

09:15:35 BingoBoingo: No, not like the Queen at all. More like Ariel Sharon, practically dead, brain dead, just kept fresh on a ventilator.

09:15:59 Vexual: with bigger arms

09:16:04 moiety: fair point, the queen doesn't breath oxygen

09:16:46 moiety: will you still be awake in half hour or so?

09:17:10 BingoBoingo: moiety: Well I mean the queen spent the last 8 years at least able to walk, and not simply on display in the produce department

09:17:54 moiety: i wouldn't be so sure. i'm convinced they have her on a trolley

09:18:33 moiety: Do you know why they are waiting for William?

09:18:58 BingoBoingo: moiety: No Idea.

09:19:00 moiety: Charles doesn't want to do it. -- according to Lord Mowbray

09:19:07 moiety: he doesn't have the balls apparently

09:19:31 moiety: they all think (including himself) he is a little soft for it, better for william to go straight in

09:19:41 moiety: random snippet for the day

09:20:24 Vexual: he does, the people don't

09:20:41 moiety: he doesnt though.

09:20:47 moiety: he cant make decisions

09:21:14 Vexual: he might have some regrets and marketing people, but he does

09:21:48 moiety: i think you misunderstood what i was saying

09:22:37 Vexual: its highly likely

09:23:27 moiety: if charles was to go and be king, he would have to give up all his Duke of Edinburgh responsibilities etc. He has balls, what I'm meaning is he couldn't do what *he* wanted specifically

09:23:51 moiety: he wanted more leaway to do all the charity and good things he does

09:24:04 moiety: i think harry wouldve been better

09:24:21 moiety: do they even have a role now?

09:24:50 moiety: apart from waving

09:25:50 Vexual: he has a range of preserves

09:25:59 Vexual: willys got an attack copter

09:26:18 moiety: he looks about 70 already

09:26:20 Vexual: im thinking you might be right

09:27:23 Vexual: what a very scottish way of convincing me

09:27:45 moiety: lol what...badly?!

09:29:04 Vexual: no very well sir

09:31:58 moiety: where are you from Vexual?

09:32:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00087594 = 12.2194 BTC [+] {2}

09:32:49 Vexual: australie

09:34:35 moiety: oh election time for you then

09:34:46 Vexual: im not enrolled

09:34:59 moiety: i got enrolled to vote for independence

09:35:59 Vexual: cool

09:38:05 Vexual: i eamil secretarys when i need something done; infinitely fore effective

09:39:11 benkay: deploy capital

09:39:31 Vexual: its amazing how people will take unsolicited advice worded correctly

09:39:31 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

09:48:44 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

09:48:44 ozbot: Johnny Cash Hurt - YouTube

09:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00087599 = 2.409 BTC [+]

09:53:02 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lOb799cTxM

09:53:02 ozbot: Black Box Ride on Time [ 1989 ] HD version - YouTube

09:56:13 Vexual: how the fuck am i goona play bb with 100k?

09:57:19 BingoBoingo: Vexual: ?

09:58:12 BingoBoingo: Vexual: What's Batman's greatest weapon?

09:58:37 Vexual: i dunno

09:58:51 Vexual: the call to arms from the sky?

09:59:12 Vexual: oh

09:59:30 Vexual: time for another video

09:59:46 Vexual: don't answer that

10:00:17 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Deception.

10:00:42 Vexual: whaddya you mean, hes fucking batman

10:00:46 BingoBoingo: Huh, looks like I should have put more money on Slovenia than I did.

10:01:18 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Yeah. But he is good at deception. That is how he uses all of these high tech weapons while hiding he is almost as rich as Mircea.

10:02:02 Vexual: hmm

10:02:34 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO5rDmSY6N4

10:02:34 BingoBoingo: Vexual: I mean how many peopl in Gotham can afford Batman tools? Maybe 5-10?

10:02:34 ozbot: Dizzee Rascal - Dirtee Cash ( Offcial Video HQ.) - YouTube

10:02:56 Vexual: ny gotham or gotham gotham?

10:03:03 Vexual: gg yah?

10:06:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.000876 = 3.7668 BTC [+] {2}

10:06:25 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Imagination land version.

10:06:44 Vexual: ok

10:06:52 BingoBoingo: I actually had a neighbor named Batman once.

10:07:00 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxjdg_D5YQY

10:07:01 ozbot: Wiley - Wearing My Rolex (Official Music Video) - YouTube

10:17:22 moiety: sorry delayed response: Vexual: it's a national vote, i don't think they let you email it in

10:18:01 Vexual: lol

10:20:23 moiety: BingoBoingo: batman? please tell me there was also a Robin on your street

10:20:58 BingoBoingo: moiety: Nah. THis was grad school so we lived in the same building.

10:21:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11206 @ 0.00087603 = 9.8168 BTC [+]

10:21:35 moiety: bound to have been a Robin too then.... ok, I'm satisfied

10:23:58 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inn4juu0Cfs

10:23:58 ozbot: Iggy Azalea - My World (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube

10:25:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5584855 = 1.117 BTC [+] {2}

10:27:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.56822498 = 11.3645 BTC [+] {4}

10:29:28 BingoBoingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvcHVesIzMU

10:29:29 ozbot: Tatu - Nas Nie Dogoniat - YouTube

10:32:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.57287264 = 6.3016 BTC [+] {4}

10:32:52 BingoBoingo: Fuck Yeah, Slovenia whooped the shit out of Slovakia.

10:33:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.5755599 = 11.5112 BTC [+] {4}

10:34:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.58669728 = 11.7339 BTC [+] {8}

10:35:35 mircea_popescu: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/13/1277249/-Reporters-Without-Borders-United-States-plummets-in-Press-Freedom-Index

10:35:36 ozbot: Reporters Without Borders: United States plummets in Press Freedom Index

10:35:37 mircea_popescu: "Compared to other nations, the United States ranks just below Romania, and just above Haiti"

10:35:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.58976433 = 11.7953 BTC [+] {6}

10:35:51 mircea_popescu: you know... haiti.

10:36:15 BingoBoingo: See Mircea, your blog has been safer than mine the whole time.

10:37:07 mircea_popescu: Much of Eastern and Central Europe rates better than the United States, and from Western Europe, only Italy rates worse.

10:37:14 mircea_popescu: italy. you know... the scum of yurp

10:37:20 mircea_popescu: seems so lol

10:38:00 BingoBoingo: Well, Ever since the Etruscans, Italy has been kind of fucked

10:39:11 mircea_popescu: In January 2012, the SEC charged an Illinois-based investment adviser with offering to sell fictitious securities on LinkedIn and issued two alerts in an agency-wide effort to highlight the risks investors and advisory firms face when using social media. Anthony Fields offered more than $500 billion in fictitious securities through various social media websites. For example, he used LinkedIn discussions to promote fict

10:39:11 mircea_popescu: itious ?bank guarantees? and ?medium-term notes.?

10:39:23 mircea_popescu: sooo... anyone want to guess as to the guy's bitcointalk name ?

10:39:44 BingoBoingo: That's before my time.

10:40:20 BingoBoingo: Imma guess Augusto Croppo?

10:40:29 chetty: hmm something Trader ..

10:40:33 mircea_popescu: i have no idea whatsoever, just guessing

10:40:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00087604 = 9.0232 BTC [+] {2}

10:41:24 BingoBoingo: Phineas is the only other Illinoisian, but Anthony and Bruno are different names.

10:42:22 BingoBoingo: Dunno if Augusto is Illinoisian, but Anthony sounds like a name that might degrade to that nick.

10:42:52 mircea_popescu: nominalism seems hardly grounds to impugn anyone.

10:43:25 BingoBoingo: Of course not.

10:44:00 BingoBoingo: Which is why I made a stab in the dark thinking someone who offered the question might have had the name in mind.

10:44:14 Vexual: wheres the real estate guy?

10:44:31 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Ohio

10:45:00 BingoBoingo: Chicago's way outside of my area of operation anyways.

10:45:23 Vexual: yeah i now that, if hes buying millies he should know about the whole country

10:45:25 BingoBoingo: I mean they built their downtown around an open sewer

10:45:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.588 BTC [-]

10:46:54 BingoBoingo: Several of my favorite memories from Undergrad involve throwing up or shitting into the Chicago river.

10:47:23 Vexual: fuck id need many tributaries to manage that

10:48:56 BingoBoingo: Vexual: It worked out, because there were Sherpas in the group I traveled to Chicago with. Nobody handles sick ghostfaces better than Sherpas.

11:00:15 pankkake: BingoBoingo: ATC address?

11:01:00 BingoBoingo: pankkake: 14UCZyAxu73kF18SrsR6Ud6Xcy1ZnVWfTA

11:01:43 pankkake: sent

11:01:52 BingoBoingo: pankkake: Recieved.

11:02:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4284 @ 0.00087308 = 3.7403 BTC [-]

11:06:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm ready to see what I can do by the Ides of March

11:06:50 mircea_popescu: o hey that works out splendidly doesn't it. teh ideas of march.

11:09:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9399 @ 0.00087282 = 8.2036 BTC [-] {2}

11:09:50 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course.

11:09:53 pankkake: I wonder how many have stopped mining atc waiting for the diff to come down

11:10:09 mircea_popescu: kind of self feeding cycle that neh ?

11:10:14 pankkake: long diff periods definitely don't work for altcoins

11:10:23 BingoBoingo: pankkake: I wouldn't be surprised if kakobrekla is waiting for the drop to fire up the Buttfuries

11:10:31 Vexual: my 7770 wont cut it

11:11:02 Vexual: even p2pool

11:11:35 Vexual: when that new am shit dropping?

11:12:38 BingoBoingo: Oh, roughly 12 hours until my birthday starts.

11:21:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00087228 = 6.5421 BTC [-] {2}

11:29:47 Vexual: ukyo could point his machines at it and get red by summer

11:30:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4137 @ 0.00087552 = 3.622 BTC [+] {3}

11:31:03 Vexual: it's my cat's birthday

11:34:47 BingoBoingo: Vexual, I may or may not be your cat in disguise

11:35:14 Vexual: yar, i don't know what im doing

11:35:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00087671 = 11.7917 BTC [+] {3}

11:36:06 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Maybe lock your cat in the closet and if I keep responding on IRC, you can by empiricism demonstrate I am not your cat.

11:37:57 Vexual: actual cat?

11:38:56 BingoBoingo: Vexual: The only meanigful test is actual empiricism

11:40:17 Vexual: i thought my cat was somewhere eating things...

11:41:16 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Eating things or communicating through a mouth operated Internet device.

11:46:57 mircea_popescu: http://www.zeekrewardsreceivership.com/

11:46:58 ozbot: ZeekRewards Receivership Website

11:47:03 mircea_popescu: anyone remember those ?

11:49:44 BingoBoingo: Nope

11:50:09 mircea_popescu: at the time pirate ran his 7% a week thing, there was an irl 7% a week thing

11:50:10 mircea_popescu: that.

11:50:27 mircea_popescu: after pirate collapsed people speculated there was some relation.

11:56:34 BingoBoingo: I should have started a lot earlier

11:59:14 BingoBoingo: I missed the era of the stupid controlling an actual portion of the BTC monetary mass.

12:00:30 mircea_popescu: nutty times. everyone knew better.

12:00:34 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

12:00:36 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 653.0, Best ask: 653.17, Bid-ask spread: 0.17000, Last trade: 653.0, 24 hour volume: 37379.48623285, 24 hour low: 625.0, 24 hour high: 712.9, 24 hour vwap: 662.084329952

12:01:15 BingoBoingo: I just regret that one of the hot active threads when I started was the Usagi == Scammer thread back before Deprived did a runner.

12:01:55 BingoBoingo: Time machine would be a better investment for anyone interested in BTC than an ASIC.

12:02:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.588 BTC [-]

12:02:56 BingoBoingo: I wonder how long people could be strung along on a time machine pre-order though.

12:05:17 mircea_popescu: lol

12:05:23 mircea_popescu: make sure it has fans.

12:06:14 BingoBoingo: I'll make sure the photoshop shames Box of Fans Labs itself.

12:11:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.07200001 = 0.432 BTC [-]

12:12:07 mircea_popescu: !t m x.eur

12:12:08 assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00194567 / 0.00199455 / 0.00212562 (1800 shares, 3.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00194567 / 0.00198701 / 0.00212562 (3350 shares, 6.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0016245 / 0.00177273 / 0.00212562 (22850 shares, 40.51 BTC)

12:12:19 mircea_popescu: how the fuck has this been trading at 0.002

12:12:27 mircea_popescu: the eur is like 300 neh ?

12:12:52 BingoBoingo: Maybe davout is slacking?

12:12:55 pankkake: ThickAsThieves: I realize coinmarketcap actually wants number of coins, not number of blocks. I fixed it, replace "blocks" by "coins" in the URL I gave you

12:13:37 mircea_popescu: make a fucking killing, buy futures worth 0.003 at 0.002

12:13:41 mircea_popescu: i guess everyone was slacking

12:14:23 BingoBoingo: Well, operation dominate the ATC market may have begun?

12:15:58 FabianB: ;;calc 1/0.00212518

12:15:58 gribble: 470.548377079

12:16:06 FabianB: ;;ticker --market all --currency eur

12:16:11 gribble: MtGox BTCEUR last: 244.1, vol: 7081.41796619 | Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 473.79027, vol: 36481.52612339 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 465.0, vol: 532.78059 | CampBX BTCEUR last: 475.3602, vol: 314.60590746 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 478.829596, vol: 13103.20800000 | Volume-weighted last average: 446.584660985

12:16:11 assbot: 123!

12:16:42 FabianB: < 300 eur is only gox

12:16:53 mircea_popescu: ah i just looked at bitcoincharts basket

12:16:59 mircea_popescu: i guess they killed mtgoxusd but not eur

12:17:04 FabianB: looks like future is priced ok

12:17:08 pankkake: bitcoin-central is 485

12:17:35 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1/485

12:17:35 gribble: 0.0020618556701

12:17:40 pankkake: and still not on bitcoincharts!

12:18:26 mircea_popescu: FabianB good to see the mkt is actually healthjy, i had a moment of panic.

12:19:01 FabianB: nah, looks good

12:19:46 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00212562 / 0.0016245

12:19:46 gribble: 1.30847645429

12:19:55 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00212562 / 00.00194567

12:19:55 gribble: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)

12:19:58 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00212562 / 0.00194567

12:19:58 gribble: 1.09248742079

12:20:09 mircea_popescu: you know that is beautiful, 1.30 for 30 days, 1.09 for the week

12:21:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, im off. gl everyone.

12:21:41 kakobrekla: grenade launcher to you too.

12:37:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00087552 = 3.6772 BTC [-]

12:38:00 davout: hi all

12:38:29 BingoBoingo: Hai davout

12:41:43 davout: "how the fuck has this been trading at 0.002" <- I WTF'd

12:41:50 davout: :D

12:44:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00087552 = 5.1656 BTC [-]

12:53:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12210003 = 0.3663 BTC [-]

12:54:40 kakobrekla: what is 'this' ?

12:54:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.0055 = 0.55 BTC

12:55:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.07379895 = 0.369 BTC [+] {2}

12:56:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.12210003 = 0.4884 BTC [-]

12:56:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.19376446 = 0.7751 BTC [+]

12:56:34 kakobrekla: ;;calc 20000/356

12:56:34 gribble: 56.1797752809

12:59:11 BingoBoingo: K, everybody. Altcoin is ready for the Moon. Imma get some sleep.

12:59:24 davout: kakobrekla: X.EUR

12:59:32 kakobrekla: a a.

12:59:40 kakobrekla: BingoBoingo : grenade lancher!

12:59:48 kakobrekla: launcher

13:00:17 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Of course. It is the best sounds to go to sleep to.

13:00:29 kakobrekla: :)

13:00:50 BingoBoingo: Napalm scented candles are relaxing too.

13:01:08 kakobrekla: lel can you get those?!

13:01:27 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: You can make them.

13:01:42 kakobrekla: myea i guess so

13:01:53 kakobrekla: need some azn meat first or smth

13:10:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 200 @ 0.00087552 = 0.1751 BTC [-]

13:10:26 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Is goat azn enough?

13:11:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12569 @ 0.00087707 = 11.0239 BTC [+]

13:16:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.07379895 = 0.5166 BTC [+]

13:16:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.12210003 = 1.221 BTC [-]

13:18:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.19376446 = 1.7439 BTC [+]

13:21:02 kakobrekla: lol

13:22:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.07379895 = 0.2214 BTC [+]

13:22:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 9930 @ 0.00017 = 1.6881 BTC [+]

13:25:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8288 @ 0.00087716 = 7.2699 BTC [+] {2}

13:40:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.53580001 = 1.0716 BTC [-] {2}

13:44:51 ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yge311sFhC8

13:44:51 ozbot: Gene Burnett - Jump You F*#kers (A Song For Wall Street) - YouTube

13:50:06 ThickAsThieves: "At one point during the debate a brawl broke out in which one MP from the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) had his nose broken."

13:50:31 ThickAsThieves: (Turkish)

13:54:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1792 @ 0.00087336 = 1.5651 BTC [-] {2}

14:03:44 the20year1: what country ThickAsThieves?

14:08:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 450 @ 0.0002249 = 0.1012 BTC [-]

14:08:22 ThickAsThieves: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26205515

14:08:23 ozbot: BBC News - Turkish MPs pass judicial reforms amid brawl

14:08:37 Diablo-D3: yeah, turkey needs to figure out their shit

14:08:49 ThickAsThieves: there's a pic too

14:08:55 ThickAsThieves: of the bloody nosed guy

14:09:18 Diablo-D3: this is not how you conduct a democracy

14:09:52 kakobrekla: says some american douche

14:10:14 Diablo-D3: kakobrekla: I never said the USA was a democracy

14:10:39 punkman: I think we should have more politician brawls

14:10:43 Diablo-D3: but if this happened in congress, I'd want both the guy being hit and the guy hitting to be both expelled

14:11:36 kakobrekla: are we again playing 'i want' game?

14:11:45 Diablo-D3: no

14:11:49 Diablo-D3: because you're trolling

14:11:54 Diablo-D3: and you dont deserve to play it

14:12:08 ThickAsThieves: shit, if our politicians actually got in fistfights, americans might even pay attention to politics

14:12:38 ThickAsThieves: "hey bro, glad to see our coins have the same name 'ALTCOIN', can we work together? what's your plan on thealtcoin ATC?"

14:12:38 punkman: ThickAsThieves, not really worth the attention

14:12:44 ThickAsThieves: so many people ask me this

14:12:49 ThickAsThieves: what are my plans!>

14:12:55 punkman: but why not have opposing sides actually fight to pass legislation

14:12:57 the20year1: back in the day in the US, people would get in knife fights in congress

14:13:07 kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves world domination naturally.

14:13:26 ThickAsThieves: thanks kako, a simple enough reply

14:13:26 kakobrekla: o Diablo-D3 butthurt eh

14:13:38 kakobrekla: U CANT HAZ PLAY THIS NO!!

14:13:45 kakobrekla: BUT I WANT.

14:14:26 Diablo-D3: hahaha I just trolled kakobrekla

14:15:52 ThickAsThieves: http://animalnewyork.com/2014/sesame-street-fighter-real-game/

14:15:52 ozbot: 'Sesame Street Fighter' Is a Real Game - ANIMAL

14:15:58 kakobrekla: i dunno who did what or who did who or what did who but i have the banhammer and i dont like your style.

14:19:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.073 = 0.219 BTC [-]

14:19:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 97 @ 0.00508498 = 0.4932 BTC [+]

14:19:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12210003 = 0.3663 BTC [-]

14:37:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12341 @ 0.00087407 = 10.7869 BTC [+]

15:00:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12794 @ 0.00087314 = 11.171 BTC [-] {2}

15:09:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.12210005 BTC [+]

15:10:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

15:11:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [+]

15:27:29 monkey: !last h am1

15:27:29 assbot: Last trade for AM1 on HAVELOCK was at 0.53580001 BTC [-]

15:51:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00087407 = 5.6815 BTC [+]

15:53:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00087286 = 6.0227 BTC [-] {2}

16:14:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26982 @ 0.00087214 = 23.5321 BTC [-] {4}

16:25:38 Mats_cd03: goxbtc continues to sail into the ground

16:30:11 praeconium: Is it possible to pull out coins?

16:36:09 Mats_cd03: lolno

16:43:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 585 @ 0.00021584 = 0.1263 BTC [-] {4}

16:44:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 677 @ 0.00021523 = 0.1457 BTC [-] {2}

16:53:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00087215 = 6.6283 BTC [+]

16:58:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00087407 = 4.2829 BTC [+]

16:59:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.63932407 BTC to 1`709 shares, 95923 satoshi per share

17:01:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] [PAID] 1.02106640 BTC to 77`944 shares, 1310 satoshi per share

17:12:41 dexX7: http://www.similarweb.com/website/mpex.co#/#icbit.se,btclevels.com http://www.similarweb.com/website/bitfunder.com#/#havelockinvestments.com,cryptostocks.com

17:18:07 benkay: pretty lulzy

17:22:54 benkay: slow day, dexX7?

17:23:38 dexX7: hehe yea

17:27:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.00087224 = 38.9891 BTC [-] {4}

17:32:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00022735 = 2.2735 BTC [+] {9}

17:33:04 benkay: (format "butts %s %s" "foo" \n)

17:33:13 benkay: oh excuse me that was meant for my repl

17:33:23 benkay: not caffinated yet

17:33:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 725 @ 0.00022749 = 0.1649 BTC [+]

17:49:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06899999 = 0.207 BTC [+]

17:51:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00087182 = 9.4592 BTC [-] {2}

17:52:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.123 BTC [+]

17:56:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00087091 = 42.7617 BTC [-] {4}

18:03:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.10771993 = 2.693 BTC [-] {5}

18:04:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.11389999 = 1.139 BTC [+] {3}

18:06:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2278 @ 0.00087038 = 1.9827 BTC [-]

18:06:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.123 BTC [+]

18:07:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 690 @ 0.00043921 = 0.3031 BTC [-] {2}

18:08:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00087008 = 9.4404 BTC [-] {3}

18:11:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 72 @ 0.00492365 = 0.3545 BTC [-] {4}

18:15:41 francis_wolke: The designated occasion for clearing Babylonia's financial slate was the New Year festival, celebrated in the spring. Babylonian rulers oversaw the ritual "breaking of the tablets," that is, the debt records, restoring economic balance as part of the cyclical renewal of society along with the rest of nature. Hammurabi and his fellow rulers signaled

18:15:41 francis_wolke: these proclamations by raising a torch, probably symbolizing the sun-god of justice Shamash, whose principles where supposed to guide wise and fair rulers. Persons held as debt pledges were released to rejoin their families. Other debtors were restored cultivation rights to their customary lands, free of whatever mortgage liens had accumulated.

18:15:41 francis_wolke: Over the next several thousand years, this same list -- canceling the debts, destroying the records, reallocating the land -- was to become the standard list of demands of peasant revolutionaries everywhere. In Mesopotamia, rulers appear to have headed off the possibility of unrest by instituting such reforms themselves, as a grand gesture of cosmi

18:15:41 francis_wolke: c renewal, a recreation of the social universe -- in Babylonia, during the same ceremony in which the king reenacts his godMurduk's creation of the physical universe. The history of debt and sin was wiped out, and it was time to begin again. But it's also clear what they saw as the alternative: the world plunged into chaos, with farmers defecting t

18:15:41 francis_wolke: o swell the ranks of nomadic pastoralists, and ultimately, if the breakdown continued, returning to overrun the cities and destroy the existing economic order entirely.

18:15:42 francis_wolke: -- Debt: the First 5,000 Years, page 216

18:16:49 francis_wolke: Interesting quote. Apologies for the extra \n - I don't know how they got there between copying from emacs and pasting into the irc client.

18:17:27 Apocalyptic: next time you know just pastebin it

18:17:58 benkay: why buy debt when someone's going to come along and break your tablets shortly thereafter?

18:18:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.124 BTC [+]

18:18:48 benkay: halp i'm frying too much potato

18:22:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00087393 = 10.9241 BTC [+] {2}

18:23:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.19376446 = 1.5501 BTC [+]

18:25:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4648 @ 0.00021526 = 1.0005 BTC [-] {6}

18:26:35 francis_wolke: benkay: Fiat - you'll have more to lend out shortly thereafter?

18:30:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+]

18:32:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.124 = 0.248 BTC [+]

18:32:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 158 @ 0.00083559 = 0.132 BTC [+]

18:40:36 francis_wolke: Is this a reasonable theory? If not - why? https://gist.github.com/francis-/34ac1e35e1de283da258

18:40:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10807 @ 0.00086971 = 9.399 BTC [-]

18:41:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3587 @ 0.00086947 = 3.1188 BTC [-]

18:43:35 Apocalyptic: "Anyone intelligent enough to create Bitcoin will have aligned themselves with some sort of governmental body" lol

18:44:00 francis_wolke: Apocalyptic: Why do you lol?

18:44:36 Apocalyptic: i wonder what advantage do you seen in the creator aligning with a government

18:45:05 Apocalyptic: will let mircea comment on that, i'm sure he will have interesting things to say

18:46:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02579997 = 0.1032 BTC [+]

18:47:44 ThickAsThieves: the dude is nuts

18:48:37 francis_wolke: Apocalyptic: Personally, I'm digging life, and would like to continue it for as long as possible.

18:48:56 francis_wolke: Apocalyptic: Radical life extension is going to require some state support.

18:50:46 benkay: why?

18:50:59 benkay: more specifically, why will rle require state support?

18:51:41 benkay: also you're missing the part where the state isn't really its own agent but more accurately a tool of the ultra-capitalized who will be the main beneficiaries of RLE in any event.

18:51:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 156 @ 0.0028231 = 0.4404 BTC [-] {6}

18:51:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.07501002 = 0.3 BTC [-]

18:52:06 benkay: buuuuut it's just vastly more likely that bitcoin will shatter all fiat states than support their continued reign.

18:52:30 benkay: in that frame, why would anyone smart enough to read the implications of a non-state ultimately fungible currency align themselves with a state that's doomed?

18:52:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00277726 = 1.3886 BTC [-] {13}

18:52:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 20 @ 0.00638999 = 0.1278 BTC [+] {2}

18:53:44 benkay: and RLE is a symptom of the too much money problem

18:53:45 pankkake: that thing is geopolitics for toddlers or something

18:54:03 benkay: "if the nsa cannot" oh my lols

18:54:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00275 = 0.6875 BTC [-] {3}

18:55:30 francis_wolke: benkay: Please, crucify me. I'm not going to get pissy or anything.

18:55:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 835 @ 0.00038327 = 0.32 BTC [-] {13}

18:56:12 benkay: mebbe later

18:56:15 benkay: dog ams need romp

18:56:35 benkay: also your feelings don't really factor into whether or not i take you to the woodshed

18:56:46 francis_wolke: Glad to hear it.

18:56:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 83 @ 0.003394 = 0.2817 BTC [-]

18:56:58 pankkake: it must be some sort of troll, where every sentence is wrong, or impossible, etc.

18:57:14 benkay: but hey you're a lisper so i likely won't get downright mean

18:57:25 benkay: ;)

18:57:32 pankkake: "It may be within the realm of possibility that Israel controls Bitcoin" heavy sentence with no substance, "control" bitcoin what does it mean…

18:57:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3101 @ 0.00022579 = 0.7002 BTC [+] {6}

18:58:00 francis_wolke: pankkake: See the links on the word 'control' and 'bitcoin'

18:58:00 pankkake: "too fragmented to act as a cohesive whole" it doesn't have to

18:58:23 pankkake: "the center for cryptography / mathematics" there's no new crypto in bitcoin

18:58:38 francis_wolke: benkay: Also, I fail to see how bitcoin will 'shatter' any state. Millitary power is meaningful, no matter how clever the Bitcoin protocol.

18:58:47 pankkake: "the USG would kill it with fire" it can't

18:59:25 pankkake: inflation and war go hand in hand

19:02:38 francis_wolke: benkay: As for why RLE requires state support, if anyone gets *anywhere* with RLE, spooks are going to show up on their doorstep. The only question is - where do you want them to hail from?

19:02:38 francis_wolke: benkay: As for why RLE requires state support, if anyone gets *anywhere* with RLE, spooks are going to show up on their doorstep. They may not be required for the actual innovation. The only question is - where do you want them to hail from?

19:04:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 8 @ 0.0257 = 0.2056 BTC [-]

19:05:59 francis_wolke: [Note: I appear to be unable to use this irc client. I held down backspace for 30 sec, couldn't navigate to any other text and revised my message. I post, and viola - my previous message is also posted! Apologies to anyone reading this diarrhea.]

19:06:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00023978 = 1.1989 BTC [+] {9}

19:07:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1625 @ 0.00023988 = 0.3898 BTC [+] {2}

19:07:14 jurov: spooks are going to show up on their doorstep... sry if i came late and don't understand but why?

19:07:46 ThickAsThieves: http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-users-awaiting-funds-survey-reveals/

19:09:06 francis_wolke: jurov: Government is the formalization of power. Anyone doing anything interesting with radical life extension will have spooks on their doorstep momentarily. There are a number of powerful / rich people who don't want to die.

19:09:59 jurov: and you think they are dying (pun intended) to get registered with govt in any way?

19:11:02 francis_wolke: jurov: Who? The creators of btc?

19:12:19 jurov: no the billionaires who will undergo life extension

19:13:04 jurov: for example i can't imagine our resident billionaire, mircea_popescu to rely upon government protection

19:13:12 jurov: in any way or shape

19:13:23 francis_wolke: jurov: ... MP is a billionaire?

19:14:15 jurov: they called him one, cuz $20k for openbsd

19:14:20 jurov: totally logical.

19:15:09 francis_wolke: jurov: I mean, yeah - but do we have actual numbers?

19:15:39 jurov: what was the market valuation of s.mpoe, is any mpex expert around?

19:16:46 jurov: !t m s.mpoe

19:16:47 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00086657 / 0.00087355 / 0.00087717 (956594 shares, 835.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00084891 / 0.00086471 / 0.00087781 (7711255 shares, 6,668.04 BTC), 30D: 0.00082189 / 0.00090381 / 0.00101414 (28027503 shares, 25,331.72 BTC)

19:17:53 jurov: ;;calc 0.00087355*1e9

19:17:54 gribble: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)

19:18:34 jurov: it is 873550 bitcoins atm

19:19:08 jurov: vhich is not very far from beelion $ . but that's besiedes the poi

19:19:12 jurov: *point

19:19:30 francis_wolke: jurov: RLE is still a while off, and millitary power dosn't cease to exist b/c Bitcoin. I'm sure that neither Peter Theil, or MP have any particular love for their respective governments. But they're not stupid and recognize that if some elite is going to extend their lifespans, they may need protection.

19:20:07 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: (author of first link in your piece speaking) you're half right. the flaw is that you are only including 'documented' ('flag, anthem, navy') powers.

19:20:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00087103 = 13.5445 BTC [+] {2}

19:20:18 jurov: they don't need the protection. they just pwn the governemnt

19:20:33 francis_wolke: jurov: pwn the gov? Explain please.

19:21:10 asciilifeform: http://villageundertaker.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/att000022.jpg

19:21:31 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: I'm not aware of any others, but if you've got a reading list...

19:21:41 jurov: for example, general secretaries of politburo

19:21:53 jurov: were most ofted neposed only by death

19:21:57 jurov: *deposed

19:22:08 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: Also, thanks for keeping up the blog. I would have not learned about the LispM otherwise.

19:22:09 asciilifeform: we live in the great age of muppeteering.

19:22:24 jurov: and if they won't die for 100 years?

19:23:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1300 @ 0.00023989 = 0.3119 BTC [+] {3}

19:23:38 jurov: many of people with extended lifespans will seek such a position, official or unofficial

19:23:58 francis_wolke: jurov: Well, yeah. And if you can't beat em...

19:24:40 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: if you ruled over a 'center of cryptography and mathematics,' would you wish this to be known to your enemies?

19:25:51 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: No.

19:26:37 Duffer1: where did https://gist.github.com/francis-/34ac1e35e1de283da258 come from?

19:27:32 francis_wolke: Duffer1: I transcribed it from a piece of paper I found lying on the ground.

19:27:44 Duffer1: fascinating

19:30:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.119799 = 0.2396 BTC [+]

19:30:55 jurov: davout, did you forget the X.EUR again?

19:31:08 Duffer1: i can't speak about the historical finance part, but pretty much everything written about bitcoin itself is flat out wrong

19:31:37 francis_wolke: Duffer1: Please elaborate.

19:31:49 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: and so, when a government pumps out propaganda by the truckload re: how it maintains a stable of uniquely-capable cryptologic janissaries, what can you conclude?

19:32:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 482 @ 0.0002399 = 0.1156 BTC [+]

19:32:42 jurov: that mp is the governemnt?

19:32:59 jurov: he maintains some such stables

19:33:16 Duffer1: start with the first assertion "..a handful of parties control bitcoin.." miners control bitcoin, anyone can edit/audit the code, but it's miners that vote with their hashpower to run updated versions or not

19:33:49 asciilifeform: Duffer1: the assumption that we know anything whatsoever regarding the distribution of the bulk of mining power is mistaken.

19:34:10 MisterE: handful is misleading

19:34:11 asciilifeform: i can make 1TH look like 1,000 1GH lamers. and so can you, and so can any spammer.

19:34:22 MisterE: hmm

19:34:25 Duffer1: a fair point

19:34:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.074 = 0.148 BTC [+]

19:35:04 MisterE: but why? I assume most miners no reason to deceive?

19:35:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00083559 = 0.2507 BTC [+]

19:35:50 asciilifeform: MisterE: if you were the hypothetical king of the miners, you have every incentive to engineer a ruse like this.

19:36:13 MisterE: hmm yea if I had the most hashpower

19:37:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 32 @ 0.0055 = 0.176 BTC

19:38:27 Duffer1: the article attributes control of bitcoin to those hoarding the most, i was pointing out the power is in the hash

19:38:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1360 @ 0.00086947 = 1.1825 BTC [-]

19:39:23 asciilifeform: describing 'power' as a scalar is naive. there is power to destroy, for example, which is arguably held by whoever controls the satoshi mega-hoard

19:39:34 asciilifeform: and then there's the power to silently '51%'

19:39:39 asciilifeform: which may or may not be held by anyone

19:40:03 asciilifeform: and then there's the power to crunch the blockchain and squeeze out whatever truth is contained therein

19:40:11 asciilifeform: all three of these are quite distinct things.

19:40:25 Duffer1: but what controls bitcoin?

19:40:52 asciilifeform: once again 'controls' is a meaningless question

19:41:05 asciilifeform: what controls your index finger?

19:41:36 Apocalyptic: the associated muscles

19:43:14 Duffer1: there are innumerable external factors, but for purposes dissecting the statement: "Given that a handful of parties control Bitcoin..." is the answer not miners? (or the mining network)

19:43:15 asciilifeform: i.e. the six or so global telecoms with de-facto control over the net could switch it off like a lamp. (provisions against this scenario are quite feasible, but no one has cared to consider much less make them.)

19:43:52 asciilifeform: everyone seems intent on inventing the parachute after being thrown, rather than before.

19:45:00 asciilifeform: a more interesting question for 'political' aficionados could be 'who has the power to kill while making the death look like bad luck?' and 'who can silently bend the system towards some desired end'

19:45:32 asciilifeform: 'who controls', on the other hand, is uselessly vague.

19:46:08 asciilifeform: that is, do the fellows with the 'nuclear briefcases' - 'control bitcoin'? arguably they do...

19:46:46 asciilifeform: in the same sense that they 'control' the weather.

19:47:12 asciilifeform: you 'control' your car. but it will never fly, or sail.

19:49:35 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: I have not drawn my conclusions r.e. the janissaries based on propaganda. At least, I'm not aware of doing so.

19:50:02 mircea_popescu: o look, new names.

19:51:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06899999 = 0.345 BTC [+] {2}

19:52:24 mircea_popescu: dexX7 not sure how accurate that sort of stuff is.

19:53:07 mircea_popescu: 2.47% of total Mpex.co traffic in last 3 months is social < that part was lulzy.

19:54:29 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: possibly the only organized undertaking modern rulers are any good at is: presenting elaborately misleading pictures of their capabilities.

19:54:36 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke you realise the entire breaking tablets thing is strictly a function of man's early monkey-like state and has no practical importance today. do you ?

19:55:15 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: I don't.

19:55:46 mircea_popescu: yes well. back in those days a one year interval was far outside the mental abilities of even "specialist" "bankers" to plan.

19:55:53 mircea_popescu: society today relies on much more intelligent people.

19:56:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the basic point that stands, supposing there is one, is that caging monkeys has a certain cost

19:56:05 mircea_popescu: the fact that the bulk of the live humans are about as stupid today as in 3000 bc has little bearing

19:56:16 asciilifeform: so the ROI on containing them isn't always positive.

19:56:17 mircea_popescu: they still wish and expect tvs running water and generally to be able to play around on the intenret.

19:56:25 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: If the USD went to 0 btc - it would be a 'breaking of the tablets', regardless.

19:56:28 mircea_popescu: this requires an economy built by people who see more than a year into the future.

19:56:38 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke it would be the breaking of SOME tablets

19:56:41 mircea_popescu: ie, the stupid ones.

19:56:57 mircea_popescu: this happens all the time. there are 1000s of bankruptcy courts all over the world hearing millions of cases as we speak.

19:56:59 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Exactly. The point is that the middle and lower class keep working.

19:57:04 mircea_popescu: sure.

19:57:22 mircea_popescu: but this is in no way time based, and in no way a festival.

19:57:52 francis_wolke: Time-based? Festival?

19:58:18 mircea_popescu: yes. our discussion started with me asking if you realise the thing you quote has more to do with the mokeys involved than with anything of import today.

19:59:26 asciilifeform: modern monkey-handlers have not entirely abandoned the idea of 'populistic' gifts to their charges via mass expropriation (whether via debt forgiveness, abruptly nationalized industry, or whichever other tricks)

19:59:39 francis_wolke: exactly.

20:00:02 francis_wolke: And how do you get rid of $18 trillion in debt? And school loans. And housing loans. etc.

20:00:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the problem is more like this : if i give you a debt package, there will be a cost to evaluate its value. if that cost likely exceeds its value, you may opt to just throw the whole thing away.

20:00:28 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke you don't. ideally, you DONT MAKE THEM

20:01:02 mircea_popescu: not everybody needs a college degree, even if they're white, and even if their parents have "expectations".

20:01:18 asciilifeform: modern 'debt politics' is simply a maintenance of the historic norm (most humans being formally enslaved to someone or other) by other means.

20:01:26 francis_wolke: Agreed.

20:01:34 asciilifeform: 'kinder/gentler/paper' but otherwise effective.

20:01:47 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: have you read this: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

20:01:57 mircea_popescu: or moreover it's simply THE maintenance of the historic norm, independent of human agency, which is being mentally digested in ways consecvent with the current social text.

20:02:02 asciilifeform: and there is never any question of turning them loose (that'd be the end of organized civilization as a concept) but change of masters.

20:02:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's never any question of turning them loose because they just won't leave.

20:02:49 mircea_popescu: turning "them" lose is like turning the cockroaches in your kitchen "loose", admitting you live in ny.

20:02:49 asciilifeform: correct. it's rather like the 'animal activist' folks turning the mice loose.

20:02:52 mircea_popescu: they're loose already.

20:05:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53838261 BTC [+]

20:05:41 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: A while back you mentioned that the rulers of today are only good at misleading the public. I agree that the *visible* rulers are good at this - but can't imagine someone like Ben Bernanke caring so little about his future that the stupid are allowed to rule.

20:06:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 179 @ 0.00293297 = 0.525 BTC [+]

20:06:12 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: the visible muppets aren't good at much of anything

20:06:15 mircea_popescu: so why does what you can and can't imagine matter ?

20:07:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 20 @ 0.19376446 = 3.8753 BTC [+]

20:07:33 Duffer1: I'd say given the state of affairs worldwide the non-visible muppets aren't good at much either

20:08:05 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 you know you'll have to first define some criteria.

20:08:05 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Because my imagination has some bearing on reality - however tenuous.

20:08:15 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke can you show this to me ?

20:08:23 asciilifeform: Duffer1: this conclusion does not necessarily follow.

20:09:03 Duffer1: well what does it matter visible or nonvisible if the net result is crap all around for everyone?

20:09:12 mircea_popescu: again, crap by which stick ?

20:09:55 asciilifeform: re: imagination: gedankenexperiment time. let's imagine that i imagine there's a cleaner way to solve sha(Y)=X than brute force. i pursue this line of inquiry, and the imagined turns into the actual.

20:10:08 asciilifeform: in this scenario, imagination can indeed have an impact on reality...

20:10:32 Duffer1: worldwide asinine political regimes, religions, violence, ignorance

20:10:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on your circumstance, yes. on the reality of the matter, none.

20:11:12 francis_wolke: MP: I have met some people in so-called 1%. I know what they're like, and what their parents are like. Many of them don't think - but some do. Some actually care that civilization will be around for their decedents to enjoy.

20:11:26 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke you know this hardly is showing, do you ?

20:11:31 Duffer1: my experience is obviously subject (as was my initial statement) but i don't see anyone trying to reverse these trends

20:11:46 francis_wolke: Though I have no experience with these matters, I can 'imagine' that they make certain sorts of donations etc.

20:11:58 francis_wolke: Or say that I didn't actually know any of these people.

20:12:07 asciilifeform: Duffer1: one can easily picture a set of aims that these things, which you aren't particularly fond of, help to advance.

20:12:17 asciilifeform: 'it's not a bug, it's a feature' (TM)

20:12:24 Duffer1: hehe

20:12:31 mircea_popescu: listen, while i agree with the reverse (ie, indeed reality iwll have some bearing, no matter how tenuous, on your imagination), the reverse is completely baseless.

20:12:41 Namworld: The requirements to be included in the 1% are low...

20:12:47 francis_wolke: Okay, cool.

20:13:11 asciilifeform: in what magic book is it written that '1%' (of what...) is a useful proxy for 'those who rule'

20:13:17 mircea_popescu: and this is so for very good reasons long explored in the history of thought.

20:13:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fun anecdote : romania's ruler for the 90s decade owner... a house.

20:13:49 asciilifeform: stalin. owned: a coat.

20:13:49 mircea_popescu: "sarac dar cinstit" = poor but honest, ion iliescu, the ex dictator-s golden boy.

20:14:12 mircea_popescu: indeed, same model.

20:14:58 asciilifeform: this goes back to the 'what is control' question from earlier, as well as MP's recent discussion of 'owning a cow'

20:15:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally : http://fraudsters.com/2014/democracy-and-finance-dont-mix-the-math-involved/#comment-98112 we're having a little dispute there.

20:15:48 Duffer1: i missed that one

20:15:50 asciilifeform: if the only things you can 'own' are those that fit in your coffin, then: stalin owned only an overcoat. and a few coin in his pocket.

20:15:54 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: Control, with respect to bitcoin, would be whoever has their hand on the 'kill switch'. Assuming that the guy with a nuke is stable.

20:16:08 mircea_popescu: there is no nor can there ever be such a "kill switch".

20:16:20 mircea_popescu: *that* is a figment of your imagination, like the tits on the goddesses.

20:16:37 asciilifeform: there is a 'fuck things up quite a bit' switch, possibly. (as described in my old piece)

20:16:44 mircea_popescu: surely.

20:16:46 asciilifeform: whether this amounts to 'kill' is debatable.

20:16:53 mircea_popescu: i do that to women occasionally. they generally love it.

20:16:56 asciilifeform: and depends as much on herd psychology as anything else.

20:17:49 asciilifeform: it's rather like, say you were permitted to squeeze off one shot from a small arm at your enemy. does this amount to 'kill switch'? what if you miss? what if he's got a tough hide.

20:18:21 francis_wolke: Agreed.

20:18:44 francis_wolke: Control, with respect to society, is an emergent phenomenon. That being said, the Manhattan Project happened.

20:19:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.077 = 0.231 BTC [+]

20:19:17 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke http://t.co/pwAThtM4MP << you know that's broken right ?

20:19:19 francis_wolke: In secret no less.

20:19:20 asciilifeform: i tend to agree with MP and others who conclude that we no longer live in a world where manhattan projects happen.

20:20:11 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: It's not broken for me. http://francis-.github.io/

20:20:33 asciilifeform: the necessary human material is no longer readily available. just as the metals with which the SR-71 was built no longer are.

20:20:34 mircea_popescu: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://francis-.github.io/

20:20:47 mircea_popescu: stubborn cat is he.

20:20:48 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: If you have a reading list to support this claim, I'd be happy to read it.

20:20:55 asciilifeform: it loads from here

20:21:07 asciilifeform: mebbe it's cached at ft. meade.

20:21:21 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Must have been cached. (Though you already knew that) my bad.

20:21:21 mircea_popescu: lol interesting

20:21:36 pankkake: francis-.github.io resolves, but firefox does not like the name

20:21:55 mircea_popescu: im pretty sure -. is nonrfc

20:21:56 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: which claim ?

20:21:59 francis_wolke: There is nothing interesting there anyway. Just an 'about' with one sentence.

20:22:01 pankkake: nor does lynx

20:22:12 pankkake: but chrome does

20:22:21 mircea_popescu: see, this is why we need standards.

20:22:25 mircea_popescu: so we can all agree on things.

20:22:32 mircea_popescu: like for instance now, we can agree that wtf.

20:22:39 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: That we're living in a world without Manhattan projects.

20:23:01 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: Actually, I'd be interested in a reading list irrespective of that.

20:23:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now you're screwed, it looks like you'll have to write that article

20:23:12 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Same goes for you.

20:23:24 mircea_popescu: o no, i'm eight million words ahead in this game.

20:23:43 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: i doubt that i, personally, could prove this claim to your satisfaction.

20:23:51 asciilifeform: it is merely a strong conjecture.

20:24:18 asciilifeform: proving non-existence is generally non-trivial.

20:24:36 asciilifeform: except in the purely mathematical scenarios.

20:24:47 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke let's consider a simpler alternative. obama fdr and lincoln all broke the law, grossly. in all cases the courts duly signed off on this.

20:24:54 mircea_popescu: in the first case, the guy was able to cause civil war.

20:25:06 mircea_popescu: in the second case, the guy was able to cause massive resource redistribution

20:25:18 mircea_popescu: in the third case, the guy was able to not cause anything outside of measurement error.

20:25:24 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: you want a good read: "The Art of Not Being Governed." (James C. Scott)

20:26:17 asciilifeform: (book-length, high-quality treatise on the exact recipes whereby humans are corralled and milked)

20:26:23 mircea_popescu: the reason of course being ideological convergence, which happens because of the law of large numbers :

20:26:42 mircea_popescu: when you have simple ideologies, you have much easier coherence. thus activity with greatly leveraged effect.

20:27:04 mircea_popescu: as things progress the complexity of ideology grows and so grows the number of boxes in which we put balls. soon enough you have no box with over X balls.

20:27:32 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: Thanks.

20:28:14 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: as for the absence of 'modern manhattan project', let's attack that one head-on

20:28:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.124 BTC [+]

20:28:31 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: I fail to see how this leads to a USG without Manhattan projects.

20:28:45 asciilifeform: for instance, you appear to consider seriously the possibility of 'radical life extension tech' being presently in covert use.

20:28:50 asciilifeform: do i understand correctly?

20:28:55 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: No

20:29:00 mircea_popescu: maybe we don't mean the same thing by manhattan projects. what's your definition ?

20:29:00 francis_wolke: err. sorry

20:29:06 francis_wolke: asciilifeform:no

20:29:34 francis_wolke: A large scale, important project, developed in secret by USG.

20:29:41 mircea_popescu: right.

20:29:58 mircea_popescu: the limits on the largeness of scale and importance are placed by said law of large numbers.

20:30:07 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: further reading. GRU report based on U.S. silver purchases in 1941-43.

20:30:15 mircea_popescu: when the options are a1, a2, you will out of a population of 100mn find 50 people able to keep secret X

20:30:17 asciilifeform: (manhattan project was no secret to GRU.)

20:30:41 mircea_popescu: when the options are a1, an you will not find out of a population of k, k <n, a single person capable of keeping secret X.

20:31:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.12489 BTC [+]

20:31:28 mircea_popescu: which is why the fsb does not have documents leaked, in spite of it sucking,

20:31:37 mircea_popescu: whereas the nsa is leaked yearly, in spite of supposedly being better.

20:31:58 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Okay?

20:31:59 mircea_popescu: russia is less "civilised" which means more convergent ideologically.

20:32:00 asciilifeform: it is very easy to draw mistaken conclusions from the fact that the 'man on the street' was entirely unaware of manhattan p. (or 'operation gladio', for a more recent example)

20:32:08 asciilifeform: but it does not follow that either was a 'perfect secret'

20:32:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought we were strictly discussing secrets as "man in the street" affairs.

20:32:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]

20:33:10 asciilifeform: keeping a secret from the man on the street is trivial. often, you could run his nose in it and it will stay 'secret.'

20:33:46 mircea_popescu: well not THAT man in the street. not the mobile vulgus, the beasts of the field, strictly interesting for their flesh, the cockroaches in your fabled ny apartment.

20:33:49 asciilifeform: betcha if you plucked the quasi-mythical Pill Against RSA from its Indiana Jones subterranean vault, perhaps six people alive would understand what they are looking at were it shown to them.

20:33:53 mircea_popescu: the actual man, ie, the middle class man.

20:34:29 mircea_popescu: a "reasonably intelligent observer"

20:34:38 asciilifeform: phun phact: many of the still-officially-secret docs from manhattan proj. are available in dead-tree print - in russian, naturally.

20:34:58 asciilifeform: any moron can waltz into a russian academic bookstore and buy all he can eat.

20:35:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and legal to import into the us in your luggage, but then again illegal to export

20:35:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of which, are PGP tattoos still in fashion, i wonder.

20:35:44 asciilifeform: 'i am a controlled munition.'

20:36:21 mircea_popescu: lol

20:36:47 mircea_popescu: they never got far, i imagine cause they're so hard to make and unwieldy to weart

20:36:59 asciilifeform: if i recall it was the perl version

20:37:06 asciilifeform: <100 chars. or so.

20:37:45 mircea_popescu: your average tattoo "artist" doesn't do so well with letters.

20:37:48 asciilifeform: haha that'd be hilarious in the pgp case

20:37:59 asciilifeform: idiot hipster asks for pgp tattoo, gets rot-13.

20:38:04 mircea_popescu: lol

20:38:31 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: To clarify, I'd imagine that anyone with enough money / power would be interested in the possiblity of radical life extension (Peter Theil, MP, Satoshi) if / when the tech is there. As such, if I were smart enough to create btc, I'd certainly team up with the most powerful country, so that if the tech does get 'there', I'll be ready.

20:39:32 mircea_popescu: why do you think so ? i wouldn't personally be interested in such.

20:39:49 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: phun phact. my first paying job was 'activate somatic telomerase.' project croaked from utter lack of the necessary depth of understanding.

20:40:11 francis_wolke: Phun phact indeed.

20:40:12 asciilifeform: (and, not simply mine)

20:40:16 mircea_popescu: i mean marginally, like i'm interested in whatever new chick takes her top off, but otherwise...

20:40:47 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: You wouldn't opt for another 400 years?

20:40:54 mircea_popescu: that aside, i do believe we'll probably be the first immortal generation,

20:40:56 mircea_popescu: and probably rue the day.

20:41:05 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke doing what ?

20:41:24 pankkake: doing girls 300 years younger

20:41:29 mircea_popescu: srsly now.

20:41:33 francis_wolke: ha.

20:41:44 mircea_popescu: i first retired aged 24. i came back because i got bored out of my mind.

20:41:58 mircea_popescu: i got lucky, cause btc came around, but how many cycles do you think i can take ?

20:42:16 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: I don't know you well enough to say.

20:42:26 mircea_popescu: well nobody does, but still.

20:42:28 asciilifeform: immortality is a tricky beast - biology aside! the life expectancy of a daily wash. d.c. beltway driver is maybe 200 years.

20:42:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how'd you figure that ?!

20:43:09 asciilifeform: accident stats. a debatable figure, could be off by as much as 10x.

20:43:16 mircea_popescu: lmao ok

20:43:50 asciilifeform: (naturally, gedankenexperiment assumes an eternal and unchanging beltway, etc.)

20:43:55 mircea_popescu: right.

20:44:05 benkay: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=26001ed

20:44:06 mircea_popescu: beltway, bellyway, errything.

20:44:06 ozbot: dishes

20:44:13 asciilifeform: could just as well calculate the life of a somali pirate, or oil driller.

20:44:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the lifespan of a redditard ?

20:44:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1275 BTC [+]

20:44:43 benkay: mircea_popescu: on the subject of the feed you've been yammering at me about

20:44:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: depends! is he in an oubliette where he belongs?

20:45:01 asciilifeform: in Butugichag?

20:45:06 mircea_popescu: benkay tiikoni and tis. you tease you. what happened to cunny and tits ?

20:45:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in his mom's basementichag

20:45:30 francis_wolke: Still not sure why you both think we live in a world devoid of Manhattan projects btw.

20:45:35 asciilifeform: (lifespan of a strong man in B. was reportedly six months.)

20:45:41 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke but you never engaged my argument at all.

20:46:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, the romans used the salt mines (in transylvania) to much the same effect.

20:46:26 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: You simply don't have to tell all that many people when you're creating a new currency - and even if you do, who is going to listen?

20:46:36 mircea_popescu: "go fight in the arena for glory or rot in turda salt mine boi"

20:46:38 asciilifeform: 'glorious secret undertakings like Manhattan p. carry on' is quite similar of a hypothesis to 'god exists'

20:46:50 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke but a new currency isn't a manhattan project.

20:47:09 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: Ah - but that's what I'm getting at - I think it was.

20:47:19 mircea_popescu: creating a new currency is like fucking an altar boy. nobody needs to know anything.

20:47:25 benkay: francis_wolke: have you read the source?

20:47:27 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: you believe that it was? or believe that it must have been.

20:47:29 mircea_popescu: a manhattan project is like escavating a tunnel under the nunnery.

20:47:31 asciilifeform: which is it

20:47:34 mircea_popescu: plenty of people need to know

20:47:41 francis_wolke: benkay: I have not.

20:47:48 benkay: sophisticated engineering project it ain't

20:47:52 mircea_popescu: ^

20:47:58 asciilifeform: i'm perfectly willing to listen to evidence that 'was'. but 'must have been' is absurd.

20:48:02 benkay: not broken, for sure

20:48:09 benkay: crypto minds deployed against it, for sure

20:48:13 benkay: rigorous engineering?

20:48:15 benkay: notrly.

20:48:18 mircea_popescu: if every great painting in history is a manhattan project then venice and the low countries own the us in manhattanness, srsly.

20:48:19 mircea_popescu: who knew.

20:48:34 benkay: venice et al pwn the us anyways

20:48:35 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: I don't believe anything. I'm asking here because you all know more than I.

20:48:43 mircea_popescu: benkay diff discussion :)

20:48:52 pankkake: bitcoin, the first released version, was certainly written by one lone guy

20:49:05 mircea_popescu: <francis_wolke> A large scale, important project, developed in secret by USG. << how does bitcoin meet any of your criteria ?

20:49:09 asciilifeform: francis_wolke: suggested exercise: invent something fundamental.

20:49:17 mircea_popescu: it's neither large scale nor important in that context.

20:49:24 asciilifeform: then you will know what it feels like to be a perfect 'conspiracy' of one man.

20:49:52 mircea_popescu: pankkake with a tenuous grasp of c practice.

20:49:52 asciilifeform: you'll have thoughts like 'wtf. how is it that only one man can know something'

20:49:57 dexX7: mircea_popesu: yea, i guess it's not very accurate, but interesting to see an estimate

20:50:20 francis_wolke: asciilifeform: Fair enough.

20:51:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53838261 BTC [+]

20:51:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i loved dame dench. "Be careful with my name, or you may wear it out!"

20:52:46 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: See my gist. However, I think that it's clear I need to read the Bitcoin sources and more history. The 'reasoning' in said gist may not correspond to reality.

20:53:00 mircea_popescu: in a world where every "idea" is in fact chewed and spit and chewed so many times by so many generations by now all that's left is the spit itself, in which vaguely one can recognise the marks left by the spit of whoever long ago, in the manner new spits mix today because of the presence of that old saliva of yore,

20:53:12 mircea_popescu: the notion of fresh produce is indeed imponderable.

20:53:26 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke actual link ?

20:53:48 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: https://gist.github.com/francis-/34ac1e35e1de283da258

20:53:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.002941 = 0.5441 BTC [+]

20:54:08 mircea_popescu: fucking teleomeres.

20:54:13 mjr_: whats up all

20:54:15 mircea_popescu: half the time when i select something a final char is omitted

20:54:51 benkay: yo mjr_ what's up

20:54:53 mircea_popescu: " Anyone intelligent enough to create Bitcoin will have aligned themselves with some sort of governmental body." << this is a weak assumption.

20:55:00 mjr_: very weak mircea_popescu

20:55:02 benkay: mircea_popescu: i pointed this out already.

20:55:05 mjr_: benkay: whats up

20:55:08 mircea_popescu: ello mjr_

20:55:12 mjr_: i just got the coolest new domain

20:55:19 mjr_: i'm quite proud of it

20:55:23 mircea_popescu: benkay so that makes 2 :)

20:55:25 benkay: hackin migration scripts, watching the babe do dishes in heels

20:55:45 mjr_: longtermcryptomanagement.com, longtermcryptomgmt.com and ltcmgmt.com

20:55:45 mircea_popescu: "A group of people associated with multiple world powers." << no. actual internationalisation happened in 2013, was announced on fraudsters.

20:55:47 benkay: well, sweeping now but general domesticity. what's the domain?

20:55:59 mjr_: restarting a brand new LTCM

20:56:04 benkay: litecoin management lol mjr_

20:56:09 mjr_: no no

20:56:15 mjr_: long term crypto

20:56:15 benkay: that's what i read

20:56:17 benkay: nope

20:56:20 benkay: you're in the litecoin biz nao

20:56:25 mircea_popescu: mjr_ they're not that great.

20:56:25 mjr_: hahaha

20:56:34 mjr_: its mostly a joke mircea_popescu

20:56:37 mircea_popescu: o o

20:56:44 benkay: i think the ltcmgmt is great!

20:56:46 mjr_: anyone who knows LTCM will find it prety funny

20:56:53 mircea_popescu: "and Israel" << wtf ?! how do you reason francis_wolke ?

20:57:09 mircea_popescu: "and the remaining states are all allies of the US" < ahaha what!

20:57:15 mjr_: but i plan on using it as a private consulting company for btcshares.com

20:57:29 mjr_: did you guys see that guy from btc shop?

20:57:40 mircea_popescu: i guess required reading http://fraudsters.com/2014/most-wrong-and-absolutely-wrongest/

20:57:48 benkay: if you'd read the gist it woulda saved so much time mircea_popescu

20:57:48 benkay: you could've jumped straight to the mockery!

20:57:48 mjr_: went public on the pink sheets...as i was recommending bitcoin companies do a year ago

20:57:54 mjr_: ^^

20:58:20 mircea_popescu: "it's disposal" that's not how you spell the possesive.

20:58:36 mircea_popescu: "neigh-impossible" << what is this, cockney ?!

20:58:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who's this guy ?

20:58:48 mjr_: hahaha

20:59:11 mjr_: i've missed chatting with you guys

20:59:19 mircea_popescu: "Even if the initial miners in the "Satoshi Gang" were not initially part of the USG - they would be hunted down and forced to turn over their Bitcoin at gunpoint." oh for the love of christ.

20:59:20 mjr_: do you have the link handy for the romania trip?

20:59:32 mircea_popescu: mjr_ the conference you mea n?

20:59:35 mjr_: yes

20:59:41 benkay: mjr_: pm

20:59:42 mjr_: i am starting to try and make plans

20:59:52 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-conference-second-edition/

20:59:53 ozbot: The conference, second edition pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

21:00:04 mjr_: thanks so much

21:00:48 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke your git is nonsense.

21:00:51 mircea_popescu: and somewhat related :

21:00:53 mircea_popescu: Dolchsto?legende is the notion, widely believed in right-wing circles in Germany after 1918, that the German Army did not lose World War I but was instead betrayed by the civilians on the home front, especially the republicans who overthrew the monarchy. Advocates denounced the German government leaders who signed the Armistice on November 11, 1918, as the "November Criminals" (German: Novemberverbrecher).

21:01:10 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: I read the logs. My wifi died.

21:01:25 mircea_popescu: now, can we transpose the manhattan argument in terms of novemberverbrecher argument ?

21:01:46 mircea_popescu: ie, could we say the same things we say of our current fashion (ie, large scale tech project) about yesteryear's fashion ?

21:01:56 mircea_popescu: (ie, large scale political project)

21:02:39 francis_wolke: I'm not following.

21:02:56 mircea_popescu: the only difference being that in the 2000s humanity is fed by technology, whereas in 1900 it was fed by politics, which meant, of course, deploying the force of arms to acquire wealth.

21:03:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who's this guy << no idea. seems to read my site at least occasionally.

21:03:07 mircea_popescu: francis_wolke you'll ahve to put that in the form of a question.

21:03:39 francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: One sec, reading your blogpost.

21:03:53 mircea_popescu: no rush really, #bitcoin-assets is eternal

21:04:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keeps giving us these immortality pills, we'll be here forever.

21:06:00 ThickAsThieves: someone likes the BitBet layout: https://fairlay.com/

21:06:12 mircea_popescu: ahahaha fair lay!

21:06:41 mircea_popescu: speaking of lays : benkay take the girls pic, post it, have her come by i'll give her a bitcoin so she can build her independent wealth.

21:06:59 mircea_popescu: (in heels, doing housework, obviously)

21:07:06 benkay: that was her!

21:07:34 benkay: she's already on payroll over here.

21:08:22 benkay: although if you foot the bill for travel to romania you can have a go at talking her into your dungeon.

21:08:27 pankkake: https://fairlay.com/bet/registered/new/ethereum-talk-10-000-views-on-youtube/ how can this be approved :/

21:08:29 ozbot: Bet on: Ethereum talk > 10.000 views on YouTube

21:08:37 pankkake: fake views are so cheap

21:09:20 mircea_popescu: benkay i normally talk girls out of it not into it.

21:09:27 mircea_popescu: and what "that" ?

21:09:44 mircea_popescu: pankkake it's a fair lay lmao

21:09:58 benkay: the tikooni

21:10:05 mjr_: mircea_popescu:

21:10:15 mjr_: it is prevailing market rates of 1760?

21:10:21 mircea_popescu: o srsly ? /me actually clicks the link then

21:10:43 mjr_: has that been edited? i seem to remember 10 bitcoin price, not sure if i am remembering wrong

21:10:54 benkay: psh

21:11:20 mircea_popescu: mjr_ sorry ?

21:11:55 mircea_popescu: benkay you know i have the exact bowl ?

21:11:57 mircea_popescu: fucking chinese.

21:12:16 benkay: mircea_popescu: that's a strainer.

21:12:47 mircea_popescu: i see no holes ?!

21:12:50 mjr_: mircea_popescu: i thought the fee was 10 bitcoins for VIP, not that I am complaining, I just haven't looked in a while

21:12:58 mjr_: and i was under that impression

21:13:01 mircea_popescu: nah it always was X at time of payment,

21:13:02 benkay: it's a low-rez jpeg and they're small!

21:13:05 mjr_: ah cool

21:13:05 mircea_popescu: happened to be 10 btc at that time

21:13:12 mircea_popescu: wow. ok nm then!

21:13:19 mjr_: i am planning on going, and will get the payment in b4 the ides of march

21:13:34 mjr_: have to check my schedule real quick but it should be fine

21:14:12 mircea_popescu: i was going to go "oh, the blessings of romanian living, i just drained a bottle of tuica out of my barrel in the cellar now i have nicely cold tuica", but i guess i should pass.

21:16:30 benkay: not moving to argentina, i gather.

21:16:56 mircea_popescu: who knows these things.

21:17:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me ask you this : are you gathering lots of information about the early days of bitcoin by extensively watching the altcoin chain, tracking txns etc ?

21:17:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on and off.

21:17:44 mircea_popescu: gedankenexperiment : you are the usg.

21:17:48 asciilifeform: not terribly actively in recent times, got, well, other things on me plate.

21:17:53 mircea_popescu: exactly.

21:19:17 mircea_popescu: could you have been a one man conspiracy to take it all over ? certainly. did you ? no. why not ? well...because of soft constraints.

21:19:23 mircea_popescu: this is what they are, this is how they work.

21:20:06 asciilifeform: everyone likes to imagine that there lives a hero.

21:20:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25888 @ 0.00087307 = 22.602 BTC [+] {5}

21:20:33 mircea_popescu: sure. and i see no problem with that, as you know, conversation.

21:20:37 mircea_popescu: reality however...

21:21:13 mircea_popescu: you gotta actually do it for it to be done. coulding have done it ain't military grade.

21:21:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21612 @ 0.00087425 = 18.8943 BTC [+] {4}

21:22:26 mircea_popescu: epic shit this, i've already derived more value from it than doge ever was worth.

21:24:29 mircea_popescu: benkay anyway, nice girl, happy times!

21:25:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.12999999 BTC [+]

21:26:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 111 @ 0.002941 = 0.3265 BTC [-]

21:27:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1275 BTC [-]

21:28:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.07366666 = 0.221 BTC [-] {2}

21:28:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.124 = 0.372 BTC [-] {2}

21:28:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

21:29:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+]

21:30:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06899999 = 0.276 BTC [+]

21:31:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00294498 = 0.106 BTC [+]

21:33:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.124 BTC [-]

21:34:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

21:39:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8228 @ 0.0008746 = 7.1962 BTC [+] {2}

21:42:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.124 BTC [-]

21:43:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]

21:48:01 benkay: mmm yes.

21:48:03 benkay: happy times.

21:54:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4677 @ 0.00087501 = 4.0924 BTC [+]

21:56:11 deanclkclk: anyone around?

21:56:24 deanclkclk: are there any alternatives to okpay which accepts fiat on behalf of exchanges?

21:56:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8064 @ 0.00087015 = 7.0169 BTC [-]

21:57:42 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk not really.

21:57:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2886 @ 0.00086943 = 2.5092 BTC [-]

21:58:00 mircea_popescu: exchanges currently seem to have a lot of problems, but if you trust any one you are best served by asking them what they can process

21:59:58 deanclkclk: thing is..I'm creating an exchange i'm kinda limited to okpay to do this

22:00:54 Duffer1: ;;gpg info deanclkclk

22:00:55 gribble: No such user registered.

22:01:06 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk perhaps you've not thought this though that much.

22:01:13 deanclkclk: what do you mean?

22:01:22 deanclkclk: especially when you get an account..you also get a bank account

22:01:43 deanclkclk: well someone else on my team is looking into it but, it something that's been nagging my conscious

22:02:00 deanclkclk: conscience *

22:02:27 Duffer1: btc/usd exchange?

22:03:24 deanclkclk: yes Duffer1

22:03:34 deanclkclk: and btc/eur

22:03:45 deanclkclk: ltc also alsong with btc/ltc

22:04:21 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk i guess as mpoe-pr would say, see here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0

22:04:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12936 @ 0.00086847 = 11.2345 BTC [-] {3}

22:10:32 deanclkclk: thx for that mircea_popescu

22:10:52 mircea_popescu: people with millions of dollars in backing failed at what you propose.

22:10:57 deanclkclk: but, what's WOT by the way?

22:11:05 mircea_popescu: it's not something to be started to fill an idle hour in the afternoon, like wittling.

22:11:18 deanclkclk: I know mircea_popescu

22:11:24 mircea_popescu: http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php this thing

22:11:35 Duffer1: Web Of Trust

22:11:45 deanclkclk: I have a value added propition mircea_popescu nad what I'm bring is like high frequency trading

22:12:07 deanclkclk: buyer wants more ..seller wants less...the trading will be automated where we try to get the best price for both buyer and seller

22:12:09 deanclkclk: understand?

22:12:42 deanclkclk: and in some cases..they can get more dollars ..as in the case of the trader and more btc in the case of the buyer

22:13:01 benkay: nope. do not understand. i must be idiots.

22:13:17 mircea_popescu: do you by any chance misrepresent "hft" to mean "a simulacra of amazon's autobid function" ?

22:13:32 Duffer1: you propose to allow buy/sell a price different than quoted?

22:14:04 deanclkclk: the buyer puts his max bid and the seller puts there minium ask price

22:14:27 deanclkclk: the algorithm goes through the list and find the best price for both buyer and seller Duffer1

22:14:34 benkay: YOU GUYS


22:14:41 Duffer1: how is that different than a regular order book

22:14:51 deanclkclk: so the seller might get more fiat and the buyer might get more btc

22:15:00 mircea_popescu: it presumably doesn't display actual values.

22:15:05 deanclkclk: it does

22:15:17 deanclkclk: it will show what actually traded

22:15:20 Duffer1: dark pool, but not dark

22:15:28 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk you may not like to hear this, but nevertheless it's a fact : you're really not able to do this. for your own sake do it for something light, like a play crypto.

22:15:34 mircea_popescu: do doge/alt/ltc/we.

22:15:44 deanclkclk: why?

22:15:48 mircea_popescu: because you're too stupid.

22:15:50 deanclkclk: why do you suggest that?

22:15:56 deanclkclk: why am I stupid?

22:16:11 mircea_popescu: well there are many fundamental points you're unable to consider.

22:16:17 deanclkclk: like what?

22:16:19 Duffer1: when you lose everyone's money for them it will hurt more than when you lose everyone's memecoin

22:16:21 deanclkclk: what's the main one?

22:16:23 mircea_popescu: i would imagine it's a combination of youth and whatever else.

22:16:46 deanclkclk: how am I loosing people's money when I said ..the objective is for folks to get more

22:17:00 benkay: well it's a zero sum game, homie

22:17:04 deanclkclk: a trade...we find the lease expensive ask and the highest bid and trade

22:17:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06899999 = 0.345 BTC [+]

22:17:14 deanclkclk: are u that fucking stupid?

22:17:14 benkay: so this is not an open problem

22:17:18 Duffer1: you clearly don't understand enough of what's involved to be put yourself in a position of responsibility for other's money

22:17:18 benkay: https://openex.pw/

22:17:21 Duffer1: other's fortunes

22:18:02 deanclkclk: as oppose just stating random things..state in what instance I'm a "too fucking stupid"

22:18:09 deanclkclk: what area?

22:18:24 Duffer1: ok what's your area of expertise?

22:18:25 benkay: deanclkclk: matching the lowest ask and highest bid is the baseline for an exchange.

22:18:26 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk don't take it personally. i have no particular interest in the matter.

22:18:26 deanclkclk: I made 2 or 3 statements and all of a sudden...I'm too fucking stupid

22:18:30 benkay: it is completely unspecial.

22:18:46 mircea_popescu: well yes. we can see what statements you make and compare.

22:19:03 deanclkclk: benkay: have u traded on BTC-e?

22:19:16 benkay: deanclkclk: why does this matter?

22:19:18 deanclkclk: basically I just get the quantity I ask for

22:19:27 deanclkclk: well I bid

22:19:29 deanclkclk: I don't get more

22:19:33 mircea_popescu: ><

22:19:47 mircea_popescu: why would you want to get more ?

22:19:57 benkay: deanclkclk: you're unfortunately trading on exchanges run by derpy web developers that don't match orders like professionals, and so you come to the conclusion that order matching is a) a hard problem and b) something you're qualified to handle.

22:19:57 Duffer1: how could you get more?

22:20:13 deanclkclk: why wouldn't anyone want to get more BTC if the purpose of the site is to find the least ask trade

22:20:20 pankkake: as far as I know btc-e does things properly

22:20:22 benkay: furthermore, the problem you're trying to solve is not actually a problem. it's a flaw in your perceptions of trading.

22:20:26 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk because people generally want to get what they want to get.

22:20:34 deanclkclk: lol

22:20:36 deanclkclk: ok

22:20:45 Duffer1: noooo not ok

22:20:47 deanclkclk: u people must be programmers

22:20:52 mircea_popescu: actually, no.

22:21:01 Duffer1: now you're going to walk off and do it anyways, stay and talk

22:21:04 mircea_popescu: the only programmer here is benkay and we only keep him around cause his gf.

22:21:13 benkay: oi

22:21:16 mircea_popescu: lol

22:21:38 deanclkclk: people want to get what they ask for? that doesn't make any business sense

22:21:51 deanclkclk: people generally likes to leverage

22:21:52 mircea_popescu: so when i order a wire of X dollars,

22:21:59 deanclkclk: so I don't know what planet u people are from

22:22:00 mircea_popescu: the recipient should get X+k dollars ?

22:22:04 deanclkclk: yes

22:22:08 deanclkclk: that ask

22:22:14 mircea_popescu: well, i suppose it must be a different planet.

22:22:17 deanclkclk: the bid...might get more say BTC

22:22:21 Duffer1: dat variety speak

22:22:34 Duffer1: much learning for you young padawan

22:22:51 pankkake: but if you want more, just ask for more. your ask might not get fully filled, so? that was the price you wanted

22:22:54 deanclkclk: it's not guaranteed but, hte bare minimum they get what the actually bid and ask were

22:22:57 mircea_popescu: maybe there could be a coin dedicated to this concept.

22:23:07 mircea_popescu: each transfer yields more coins i nthe recipient address than were sent

22:23:12 mircea_popescu: this defo beats bernankoin

22:23:12 pankkake: I mean bid, lol

22:23:30 deanclkclk: guy..do you know how market works...prices change on the fly

22:23:39 mircea_popescu: pankkake he just outsmarted your BNK!

22:23:41 deanclkclk: and trades can happen ever second

22:23:45 pankkake: *BEK

22:23:49 mircea_popescu: o my bad

22:23:56 deanclkclk: so if I put this bid and the price sinks...I'm would be a happy camper

22:24:13 Duffer1: a futures exchange?

22:24:25 pankkake: you'd have to know the future indeed

22:24:29 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk so you want to specify orders by the other part of the pair, basically ?

22:24:43 mircea_popescu: sells specified in dollars, buys in bitcoin for the btc/usd pair ?

22:24:47 deanclkclk: mircea_popescu: again..attention

22:25:10 deanclkclk: by the bare minimum...the traders would get what they ask for....X dollars for the seller and X BTC for the buyer

22:25:37 deanclkclk: but, there could be a case where Seller and Buyer gets more depending on the trade

22:25:57 deanclkclk: the purpose is to find the highest bid and the lowest ask

22:25:59 pankkake: you should write a proof of concept (without any actual monies involved)

22:26:12 deanclkclk: I'm already doing that

22:26:37 mircea_popescu: hence my advice to use play coins.

22:26:43 pankkake: well then perhaps I'll understand your proposal

22:26:45 deanclkclk: so for instance...I put 100 for 1 BTC and I find a ask for 95

22:26:46 mircea_popescu: if your idea blows up you won't be hung out to dry.

22:26:57 benkay: no, you will.

22:27:04 deanclkclk: I save $5 dollars and I can use that 5 dollars to get an additional satososhi

22:27:07 mircea_popescu: ok, but not with a spiked stake in your anus

22:27:14 deanclkclk: it's small but it's incremental :)

22:27:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.07000003 = 0.63 BTC [-] {4}

22:27:26 mircea_popescu: o look, btctalk is down

22:27:45 pankkake: it's not. they banned you?

22:27:54 deanclkclk: now tell me...am I stupid?

22:28:09 Namworld: How do you find such lower ask/higher bid so buyer/seller gets more? All bids/asks are all already there when someone place an order.

22:28:16 deanclkclk: I'm already using testnet folks

22:28:29 pankkake: if I put 100 for 1 BTC and there is an ask at 95, I'm already getting that bitcoin at 95

22:28:31 mircea_popescu: http://nypost.com/2013/10/11/teen-who-faced-sex-offenders-list-for-streaking-commits-suicide/

22:28:33 ozbot: Teen kills self after streaking backlash | New York Post

22:28:35 mircea_popescu: key words " alabama law"

22:28:38 pankkake: almost everywhere

22:28:45 Jere_Jones: You plan on doing this *on* the blockchain?

22:28:52 deanclkclk: all exchanges? pankkake ?

22:29:02 Namworld: Yes

22:29:02 deanclkclk: so what happens with the $5 dollars

22:29:09 mircea_popescu: pankkake nm back up

22:29:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.13199988 = 0.66 BTC [+] {3}

22:29:40 Namworld: You don't spend that $5 because there is a ask lower than 100 per BTC at 95.

22:29:46 pankkake: you end up with $5 and 1 BTC

22:29:55 Namworld: That's what happen. You get 5 dollar + a BTC

22:30:06 deanclkclk: so why not find another satoshi for the 5 bucks?

22:30:12 Duffer1: or if you do a market buy, the 5$ buys from the next order inline

22:30:37 deanclkclk: well that's not my experience with other exchanges folks...sorry

22:30:40 deanclkclk: maybe I was missing something

22:30:43 Namworld: You CAN select to buy 100 dollar of BTC. The exchange already finds the lowest asks and gets as much BTC as possible.

22:30:59 Namworld: You can select amount to buy/sell in dollar or in BTC already.

22:31:07 Namworld: You already get the best ask/bid.

22:31:07 Jere_Jones: market order vs limit order

22:31:15 Namworld: That's how all exchanges already work.

22:31:21 ThickAsThieves: time to ditch OpenEx: https://www.x-bt.com/markets/atcbtc

22:31:37 ThickAsThieves: courtesy of Apocalyptic

22:31:38 pankkake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_(exchange) basically

22:31:38 ozbot: Order (exchange) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

22:31:44 pankkake: omgizz! thanks Apocalyptic

22:31:45 mircea_popescu: curious if BingoBoingo will support it

22:32:09 Apocalyptic: hope you guys like this order matching better heh

22:32:14 pankkake: the current slowness of ATC blocks will make arbitrage annoying

22:32:22 BingoBoingo: Sure, will take a few hours to move out. That's usually the lag on withdrawals.

22:32:30 Apocalyptic: I heard a diff retarget is in 33 blocks

22:32:46 mircea_popescu: funny thing is, the r3wt guy will never know what exactly he missed by not being part of things.

22:32:58 pankkake: try 1000 more blocks

22:33:05 ThickAsThieves: really?

22:33:10 ThickAsThieves: fuuu

22:33:12 mircea_popescu: pankkake how long are blocks atm, 10 mns ?

22:33:19 ThickAsThieves: like 50m

22:33:22 pankkake: yeah I think it's 2016 blocks, of 512 sec blocks

22:33:38 deanclkclk: can you cancel a trade that's partially filled on these exchanges?

22:33:43 Namworld: Yes

22:33:56 Duffer1: every exchange i've used ya

22:34:01 deanclkclk: which ones?

22:34:07 pankkake: all of them

22:34:11 deanclkclk: lie

22:34:12 Namworld: MtGox, Bitstamp, BTC-E, you name it.

22:34:18 ThickAsThieves: dean we dont need more exchanges

22:34:21 Namworld: I don't know of one that doesn't.

22:34:25 Duffer1: campbx/gox/btce/mcxnow

22:34:43 pankkake: look, if you don't allow cancelling, you're going to end up with nonsense very quickly

22:34:54 Duffer1: note that half of those are dead, and the others are questionably/likely scams

22:35:08 deanclkclk: I've used btc-e and no way in hell I could cancel a trade that was partially filled

22:35:41 Apocalyptic: deanclkclk, i could

22:35:52 Duffer1: it's highlighted in yellow in the order book and all open positions are visible below the order book, scroll down

22:35:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves at the rate we're going we soon might. you know the joke with the cadet and his horse?

22:36:18 Duffer1: yellow or grey i forget, it's been a while, when you mouse over it you can cancel

22:36:26 deanclkclk: so must of u guys are traders?

22:36:41 BingoBoingo: deanclkclk: Not at all

22:36:52 Duffer1: hell no lol

22:36:54 mircea_popescu: we are the secret iluminati club of bitcoin.

22:36:59 mircea_popescu: nice to meet you.

22:37:18 deanclkclk: so if you are not traders or programmers...what the fuck is that profession?

22:37:30 pankkake: I'm an eternal curious finance noob

22:37:49 Duffer1: I'm a clinger that lost it all and hangs around for I don't know why

22:37:53 Namworld: Some in here are traders I suppose. Other are business owners.

22:38:05 Namworld: Others are just watching for info/news.

22:38:11 Duffer1: the Haters Club, now with Bitcoin

22:38:14 ThickAsThieves: i'm a serial journeyman

22:38:27 mircea_popescu: you're all jews.

22:38:37 pankkake: if only being a hater was a job

22:38:45 Duffer1: seriously

22:38:57 Duffer1: well mpoe-pr, so jealous :(

22:39:01 mircea_popescu: i think most people go into the press trying to make a job out of it.

22:39:06 mircea_popescu: ahahaha right-o!

22:40:07 deanclkclk: so for traders here..what do you guys would want out of an exchange that your currently not getting?

22:40:27 Duffer1: theft insurance

22:41:13 deadweasel: liquidity

22:41:19 Namworld: Which I don't think is feasible to begin with.

22:41:29 deanclkclk: anything is possible

22:41:31 Namworld: (insurance)

22:41:49 Namworld: Anything?

22:41:54 deanclkclk: meaning if you loose 100% of your BTC..u get back say full or partial?

22:42:04 benkay: i want bad trade insurance

22:42:07 benkay: like

22:42:10 benkay: i bought atc at 150

22:42:11 kakobrekla: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26210053

22:42:12 benkay: it's now 100

22:42:17 benkay: i want that 50 sat back plz

22:42:18 mircea_popescu: actual credibility.

22:42:22 mircea_popescu: would be nice but it's too onerous to hope for.

22:42:22 Duffer1: nono if (when) the exchange is compromised and the hot/cold wallets stolen it's insured

22:42:23 deanclkclk: lol

22:42:24 mircea_popescu: how come every day there's some doofus who does nothing but parts and joins ;/

22:42:26 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk so make a perpetuum mobile then, why you wasting your time with this crap.

22:42:41 deanclkclk: the only ones credible I know are the ones registered with finrar

22:42:48 deanclkclk: but, most traders don't want to be tracked

22:43:32 Namworld: There's already BTC-e to not be tracked. They don't require any verification as far as I know.

22:43:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28818 @ 0.0008757 = 25.2359 BTC [+] {4}

22:43:52 Namworld: The registered ones are not typically insured.

22:43:57 deanclkclk: yes i know but, coinmkt requires social security

22:44:16 Duffer1: i don't know of any one that is insured

22:45:04 deanclkclk: how must of you guys get your money to exchanges? bank transfer?

22:45:20 Namworld: Yes. Bank transfer.

22:45:44 deanclkclk: that's the preferred way I guess

22:45:59 deanclkclk: and the fees doesn't matter to you guys right?

22:46:20 pankkake: there are fees for bank transfers?

22:46:21 mircea_popescu: ...

22:46:56 Namworld: I don't know of any fiat transfer mechanism without fees.

22:47:12 deanclkclk: no...apologies. I was talking about trading fees

22:47:33 mircea_popescu: or i could bitch.

22:47:47 Namworld: What about them? What do you want to do?

22:48:10 davout: pankkake: oui?

22:48:15 deanclkclk: offering less trading fees

22:48:33 ThickAsThieves: i dont quite understand the OpenEx withdrawal process, but we'll see...

22:48:41 Namworld: Well that wouldn't get me at all.

22:48:44 ThickAsThieves: it doesnt even ask for a wallet

22:48:55 Namworld: I don't care about lower fees.

22:49:23 pankkake: davout: about insured deposits on exchanges

22:49:25 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves maybe it's psychic ?

22:49:28 deanclkclk: what would get you then?

22:49:41 pankkake: or it's a "donate all to exchange owner" feature


22:49:50 benkay: sorry.

22:49:53 deanclkclk: Again, I just started out in trading about 4 months ago but, I'm a programmer

22:49:56 benkay: sorry for capslock :(

22:49:58 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk dude srsly, nobody is using the thing of an unknown. you were here in channel when this happened, openx just lost all its business because Apocalyptic.

22:50:17 Namworld: You've just proposed x then y then z upon seeing the first things were already there so wouldn't work. If you couldn't figure it out, you're not fit to handle customer Bitcoins. Because when first thing will work, there won't be other things to try.

22:50:18 deanclkclk: huh?

22:50:22 Namworld: Bitcoins will be gone.

22:50:33 pankkake: well Apocalyptic doesn't know how to configure a mail server so I'm still waiting for the activation mail

22:50:35 Namworld: I'm basically not going to touch anything you'd do.

22:50:49 deanclkclk: those were all my value proposition ..I couldn't just come and spill everything

22:51:07 deanclkclk: I asked one at a time to get a feel of what people want

22:51:09 mircea_popescu: and Namworld comes to the same conclusion everyone else did, but after putting more effort and time into it.

22:51:18 ThickAsThieves: pankkake mine went to spam

22:51:45 Namworld: I just wanted to go through all the details of why no one here is interested.

22:51:47 deanclkclk: who is

22:51:49 pankkake: my server greylists things that do not have SPF or proper SPF

22:51:55 deanclkclk: who is Apocalyptic?

22:52:00 Duffer1: people want trust (web of trust), people want competence (any experience in finance or handling other's significant amounts of money?)

22:52:00 benkay: who are you?

22:52:05 Namworld: I like explaining why.

22:52:08 mircea_popescu: Namworld yeah, i didn't mean it negatively.

22:52:18 ThickAsThieves: ;;gettrust Apocalyptic

22:52:19 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=Apocalyptic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Apocalyptic | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013

22:52:34 deanclkclk: finance is good but, also tech expertise

22:52:36 benkay: ;;gettrust deanclkclk

22:52:37 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=deanclkclk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=deanclkclk | Rated since: never

22:52:47 benkay: if you want to btc

22:52:48 deanclkclk: most of the problem with exchanges are tech experience

22:52:50 benkay: first you must wot

22:52:53 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk get over that. techs are monkeys. nobody cares.

22:52:58 pankkake: Apocalyptic: 1) add a SPF record to x-bt.com 2) if possible set your reverse dns in something x-bt.com - that will reduce your amount of spaminess greatly

22:52:58 deanclkclk: ok

22:53:01 benkay: deanclkclk: incorrect.

22:53:10 benkay: deanclkclk: tech is a trivial thing.

22:53:10 Namworld: I know you didn't mircea, just a random fact I wanted to add to it.

22:53:26 deanclkclk: benkay: run that command again

22:53:47 Namworld: With that, I'm gone. Got to meet with the family.

22:53:51 mircea_popescu: have fun

22:54:02 deanclkclk: ;;gettrust deanclkclk

22:54:03 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user deanclkclk to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=deanclkclk&dest=deanclkclk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=deanclkclk | Rated since: never

22:54:25 deanclkclk: so I need to signup to WOT. I haven't done so

22:54:36 benkay: you also need to read the thing you were linked way back up miles above

22:54:47 deanclkclk: yes

22:54:48 ThickAsThieves: great snapshot http://imgur.com/1guYfy2

22:54:50 benkay: "so you want to start a bitcoin business"

22:54:51 mircea_popescu: i tohught he read that

22:55:02 deanclkclk: again who is apocalyptic?

22:55:03 mircea_popescu: but it didn't apply to him, because that was for all the OTHER kids.

22:55:22 Duffer1: MP you should have PR add 'dat variety speak' article to her start a business thread

22:55:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ahaha seriously ?!

22:55:32 pankkake: I don't know who Apocalyptic is but people I trust seem to trust him

22:55:39 pankkake: ;;gettrust Apocalyptic

22:55:39 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user pankkake to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=pankkake&dest=Apocalyptic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Apocalyptic | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013

22:55:46 mircea_popescu: the news at 5, a string of mistakes that eventually annul each other if long enough.

22:55:47 Apocalyptic: pankkake, good point @SPF record

22:56:15 benkay: Duffer1: people who need to read Variety Speak won't get it.

22:56:22 deanclkclk: means that mircea_popescu recommended apocalyptic?

22:56:38 mircea_popescu: what im the only 1 ?

22:56:40 benkay: Duffer1: just like people who need to read "so you want to start a bitcoin business" can't get over their egos and get it.

22:56:41 ThickAsThieves: dean

22:56:43 deanclkclk: so let me get this straight. He created openex and people are loosing money?

22:56:48 ThickAsThieves: lear about the WoT

22:56:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.13199989 = 0.924 BTC [+]

22:56:59 ThickAsThieves: then youll understand why it matters at all

22:57:00 deanclkclk: I hear you ThickAsThieves

22:57:09 ThickAsThieves: and how the hell we can trust anyone across the webz

22:57:17 benkay: Duffer1: just like people who'd benefit from BingoBoingo's advice on how not to fail in bitcoin are too wrapped up in their silicon valley bullshit to listen to him.

22:57:29 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1624278/plain/)

22:57:29 BingoBoingo: !b 1

22:57:30 deanclkclk: ok so once I sign up..how does one become trusted?

22:57:33 Duffer1: hehe

22:57:46 deadweasel: 'ycombinated minds' as mircea_popescu aptly put it

22:57:49 mircea_popescu: deanclkclk well it first and foremost takes time

22:57:49 ThickAsThieves: you do trustworthy things

22:57:56 benkay: deanclkclk: do something useful, don't screw people over.

22:57:59 mircea_popescu: which is why you want to do that early and then lurk here

22:58:03 mircea_popescu: you'll figure it out soon enough

22:58:04 Duffer1: you're not wrong benkay, call me a hopeless optimist though, some may learn before they lose it all instead of after

22:58:06 BingoBoingo: deanclkclk: You do trustful things first, eventually you get to do trustworthy things

22:58:16 benkay: losing it all is a part of the learning process

22:58:43 deanclkclk: well..I started the project from December but, I've been mostly on #bitcoin, #bitcoin-dev and #litcoin

22:58:46 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 benkay it was illustrated recently by herbi. the only restraint is that people's ability to be all imperial and handwave reality be overrun

22:58:46 benkay: whether 'all' is 9 bucks like in herbi's case, or everything everything in yours...

22:58:48 pankkake: what about learning by losing it half?

22:58:54 mircea_popescu: they don't actually have to lose anytihng per se, other than their own vanity

22:59:02 mircea_popescu: (or, as a progre would put it, "self-respect")

22:59:04 deanclkclk: I know I guy here called twitz from here..I can't remember his irc name

22:59:05 benkay: pankkake i gotcha buddy

22:59:35 Duffer1: twizt

22:59:37 pankkake: I learned to do backups by losing only 1/3. but I still miss it :(

22:59:45 ThickAsThieves: some sleepytime audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yYrYCE4i1c

22:59:48 benkay: one can always earn more bitcoins.

23:00:00 benkay: one can never fix a reputation for incompetence.

23:00:05 ThickAsThieves: ozbot where are you?

23:00:12 benkay: much less a reputation for outright scammery.

23:00:24 pankkake: (backups in the general sense, not losing bitcoins due to lack of backups)

23:00:29 Duffer1: benkay one can always earn more bitcoins. >>> i wish

23:00:50 benkay: Duffer1: only thing holding you back is you, cousine.

23:01:14 ThickAsThieves: yep, ive seen like 3 jobs posted in here this week

23:01:45 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb

23:01:46 gribble: Time since last block: 13 minutes and 49 seconds

23:01:54 benkay: ThickAsThieves: what jobs?

23:02:05 ThickAsThieves: ATC Manager to the Stars

23:02:10 ThickAsThieves: ATC Trader to the Stars

23:02:12 ThickAsThieves: hehe

23:02:18 benkay: well that second one was actually a noob trap

23:02:30 ThickAsThieves: also i'll pay bounties for needed ATC services

23:02:41 BingoBoingo: benkay: Actually I'm handling that second on nao.

23:02:59 BingoBoingo: I am the n00btrap.

23:03:02 benkay: o yea

23:03:10 benkay: for teh lolz

23:03:35 ThickAsThieves: random thought, there;s no way in hell that wall st guy put 8 nails in himself

23:03:39 ThickAsThieves: he was killed

23:03:55 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Why not. people survive more nails than that.

23:03:59 ThickAsThieves: it's like 5 dead now?

23:04:13 benkay: five who and what?

23:04:15 ThickAsThieves: it makes no sense

23:04:37 Duffer1: oh shi there's more?

23:04:52 BingoBoingo: Anyways. I thought he was Colorado Title company guy. Not Wallstreet.

23:04:54 mircea_popescu: <benkay> << one could, perhaps, but defo not by persevering in the manner that got them the original reputation in the first place.

23:05:08 ThickAsThieves: if youre gonna kill yourself and you are intelligent, wtf would you nailgub yourself, and when did go for it, how the hell do you make it to 7 or 8 in the body and head?

23:05:21 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know this was discussed :D

23:05:22 ThickAsThieves: nailgun*

23:05:31 ThickAsThieves: oh you think he was killed too?

23:05:40 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Well, the nails themselves slow bleeding. And there was no evidence he was intelligent at all.

23:05:55 mircea_popescu: well it's a well known joke this, "suicide, 3 shots to the head"

23:05:58 Duffer1: depends on nail placement really

23:06:01 pankkake: probably lacked the street smarts

23:06:14 Duffer1: and basic knowledge of anatomy

23:06:15 mircea_popescu: <benkay> well that second one was actually a noob trap <<< all jobs are de facto noob traps

23:06:28 benkay: huh that's an interesting take

23:06:32 benkay: how so?

23:06:32 mircea_popescu: doh.

23:06:42 mircea_popescu: the thing that qualifies a good lay is exactly the thing that disqualifies a rotten one

23:06:43 benkay: oh enlighten my derpy ass

23:06:57 mircea_popescu: there's not this convenient cleavage of school from life irl.

23:07:18 Jere_Jones: Catching up on the last hour of conversation is depressing.

23:07:31 mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones

23:07:33 mircea_popescu: oops

23:07:40 mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones_wife : please hide any nailguns ty.

23:07:47 Jere_Jones: Before that. lol

23:07:50 davout: pankkake: what about the insured deposits ?

23:08:00 davout: pankkake: which deposits ? :-)

23:08:02 mircea_popescu: davout yes yes, we know, you have it.

23:08:11 davout: mircea_popescu: no i actually don't

23:08:28 mircea_popescu: for eur ? i thought it was eu banking w/e

23:08:48 mircea_popescu: "we promise you can get your money back unless germany needs it to bail out russian oligarchs in fucktardistan

23:08:56 mircea_popescu: "

23:08:58 davout: it seemed obvious to me when i first talked about it,

23:09:51 davout: which was a mistake, i double checked with the "fonds de garantie des dépôts" and they only cover accounts called "comptes de dépôt", and not "comptes de paiement"

23:10:06 mircea_popescu: o you sneak.

23:10:12 mircea_popescu: what are you, french ?

23:10:42 davout: anyway, the main point is that the money is on accounts in the name of the holders, in a financial insitution, not on our corporate accounts, and therefore legally not ours

23:10:57 mircea_popescu: nevertheless do go back and add addendums wherever feasible

23:11:09 mircea_popescu: otherwise that's grossly misrepresentative.

23:11:19 pankkake: the original question was "insurance from theft" though

23:11:22 pankkake: so that answers it

23:11:35 mircea_popescu: yeah but novel stuff thus unearthed

23:13:19 davout: pankkake: oic the question was about btc deposits

23:13:38 pankkake: I'm not sure

23:14:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00087607 = 24.7052 BTC [+] {5}

23:14:15 BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: You orderbook looks weird

23:14:16 mircea_popescu: here on -assets we specialise in animated conversations with multiple participants all of which have no certain idea wtf the topic is, what's being said, what it means and so on.

23:14:21 mircea_popescu: works well enough so far.

23:14:31 davout: haha

23:15:00 mircea_popescu: the english language being employed is more an artefact of the observer than a reality of the conversation.

23:15:12 davout: i doubt any exchange found an insurance company to cover the btc deposits

23:15:59 Duffer1: have any tried?

23:16:19 benkay: heh i'd be surprised

23:16:27 davout: if any did try ?

23:16:34 mircea_popescu: davout sure they had.

23:16:38 davout: we did

23:16:52 mircea_popescu: CPA.

23:17:01 benkay: nah if any'd obtained the necessary ins

23:17:12 Duffer1: davout who'd you approach?

23:17:12 mircea_popescu: ;;google usagi CPA

23:17:13 gribble: Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading ...: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.0; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 007 | Weather Philippines: http://weather.com.ph/announcements/typhoon-usagi-odette-update-number-007; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 008 | Weather Philippines: http://weather.com.ph/announcements/typhoon-usagi- (1 more message)

23:17:22 deanclkclk: pankkake: are you around?

23:17:31 ThickAsThieves: if anyone like's gingery drinks, this stuff is great: http://www.fever-tree.co.uk/drinks.php

23:17:42 davout: Duffer1: dunno, i didn't take care of that myself

23:17:46 Duffer1: ah

23:17:49 ThickAsThieves: good as mixer or a zippy refresher

23:18:07 ThickAsThieves: (the ginger beer)

23:18:13 deanclkclk: folks...attention. I bid for 1 BTC for $100 USD but, instead get 1.04 BTC

23:18:18 deanclkclk: does most exchange work like this?

23:18:19 Duffer1: how long ago? lloyds is covering some bitcoin based noob vault, they may be receptive

23:18:57 Duffer1: multiple tangents and generally talking past eachother? ya

23:19:09 mircea_popescu: i like the folks attention bit. who do you take yourself for dood.

23:19:33 mircea_popescu: shut up and spend the next year reading, you're not part of the speaking crowd here.

23:19:44 pankkake: deanclkclk: yes why?

23:20:29 deanclkclk: I just reread what you type and I think there's a misunderstanding

23:20:36 deanclkclk: see what I typed above pankkake &

23:20:40 deanclkclk: ^

23:20:53 Apocalyptic: BingoBoingo, what's weird about it ?

23:21:02 ThickAsThieves: dean you are making shit up in your head

23:21:13 ThickAsThieves: of course that happens

23:21:17 ThickAsThieves: when you overbid

23:21:44 ThickAsThieves: except you spend less $ instead

23:22:08 ThickAsThieves: you are trying to make some kind of reverse auction bidbook?

23:22:10 deanclkclk: overbid is relative

23:22:19 deanclkclk: how do you know you overbid

23:22:21 deanclkclk: ?

23:22:42 ThickAsThieves: if you knew you wouldnt overbid

23:22:55 deanclkclk: ThickAsThieves: that's not an exact science

23:23:24 deanclkclk: all I'm saying...with the site..there's no over bid

23:23:24 pankkake: I blame today's headache on you guys

23:23:24 ThickAsThieves: well the orders are always changing

23:23:35 deanclkclk: if you "overbid" ..u get more btc

23:23:38 deanclkclk: that's all

23:23:53 ThickAsThieves: i suggest you make your thing

23:23:54 deanclkclk: but, orders change a second

23:23:58 ThickAsThieves: sounds wonderful

23:24:31 deanclkclk: you sound sarcastic

23:24:36 ThickAsThieves: i do?

23:25:00 deanclkclk: well...seeing that no one here have said "wonderfule" since I've been here

23:25:11 ThickAsThieves: well its what you wanna hear right?

23:25:18 deanclkclk: well no

23:25:23 ThickAsThieves: oh?

23:25:33 deanclkclk: I want to get objective opinion

23:25:48 deanclkclk: rather calling me stupid

23:25:53 ThickAsThieves: does that opinion have to think you have a good idea?

23:26:01 deanclkclk: I don't know anymore

23:26:04 ThickAsThieves: they explained it to you

23:26:13 ThickAsThieves: you are scratching the surface

23:26:24 pankkake: the "doing it" phase usually helps you know if the idea was good or not

23:26:40 pankkake: and no need for real coins

23:26:57 deanclkclk: would testnet help?

23:27:06 ThickAsThieves: you dont need any coins

23:27:11 ThickAsThieves: its just a db

23:27:18 deanclkclk: ok

23:27:21 benkay: yeah simulate it

23:27:26 benkay: set it up

23:27:31 benkay: set up the simulations

23:27:38 benkay: and i'll go through the trouble of auditing your code.

23:27:42 deanclkclk: but, all I'm asking....do people ever work with exchanges that give you more for what you asked for?

23:27:43 benkay: deal?

23:27:46 deanclkclk: sure

23:27:49 mircea_popescu: benkay i thought you were busy

23:27:50 deanclkclk: that's a deal

23:27:57 benkay: he's never going to deliver.

23:28:03 benkay: i'm shorting his delivery.

23:28:06 mircea_popescu: if he is you owe me an atc.

23:28:06 deanclkclk: why you say that?

23:28:07 ThickAsThieves: a good exchange always gives you what you ask for, no?

23:28:19 deanclkclk: yes..that's the minimum ThickAsThieves

23:28:22 benkay: outta mah FACE mircea_popescu

23:28:31 deanclkclk: but, a better exchange gives you more

23:28:35 mircea_popescu: if he doesn't before you do you get 1.

23:28:36 Duffer1: i don't see how you could get more for what you asked for, someone has to get less in that scenario

23:28:58 deanclkclk: it doesn't Duffer1

23:29:02 benkay: i'm not taking this bet, mp.

23:29:06 mircea_popescu: lmao

23:29:14 BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: I'm trying to put in a Bid for 12000 and instead getting bids for 12

23:29:19 mircea_popescu: i thought you already had. guess not huh.

23:29:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00087145 = 7.6688 BTC [-]

23:29:31 benkay: how had i?

23:29:37 mircea_popescu: "i'm shorting his delivery."

23:29:39 ThickAsThieves: if i understand your idea, all it does is market buy with the rest of any money you bid, if you happened to overbid

23:29:48 benkay: yeah if he delivers i gotta deploy some time on a code audit

23:29:51 deanclkclk: if I bid $100 BTC but, I got it with 99 Duffer1 ..either the user gets back $5 dollars or they trade it for some additional BTC/Satoshis

23:30:00 deanclkclk: sorry I got it for 95

23:30:07 mircea_popescu: so if he doesn't deliver before you do you get a free atc.

23:30:18 benkay: before i do what now?

23:30:24 mircea_popescu: deliver.

23:30:27 ThickAsThieves: wow ATC only doled out in singles now

23:30:33 benkay: oh mimisbrunnr?

23:30:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves expensive shit.

23:30:40 mircea_popescu: benkay whatever it is you're busy with

23:30:52 benkay: nigga i got an endless list of shit to process

23:31:02 ThickAsThieves: is he busy making coingenularity.io yet?

23:31:03 mircea_popescu: yes yes, tits brulee.

23:31:15 benkay: gotta keep the brain in tip top condition

23:31:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves apparently he's busy watching womenz in negligees wash dishes and programmers do mysql exchanges.

23:31:44 deanclkclk: whatever I'm explaining is making sense?

23:31:54 davout: Duffer1: do you remember the name of the "vault" that says its insured?

23:32:07 Duffer1: let me look

23:32:12 ThickAsThieves: satoshisvault?

23:32:25 ThickAsThieves: this ? https://www.vaultofsatoshi.com/

23:32:34 ThickAsThieves: fukn doge..

23:32:42 Duffer1: davout http://www.coindesk.com/worlds-first-insured-bitcoin-storage-service-launches-uk/

23:32:45 deanclkclk: so I'm saying rather than get back $5 dollars and create another trade; which time is money and during that creation you might miss a chance on a great trade

23:32:50 deanclkclk: the site does it for you

23:33:01 davout: ThickAsThieves Duffer1 thanks i'll have a look

23:33:03 deanclkclk: well it's an option. Get back fiat or get more crypto

23:33:08 benkay: ThickAsThieves: he's convinced me to hack an allchain watcher together

23:33:25 ThickAsThieves: a what?

23:33:40 benkay: precisely.

23:33:45 mircea_popescu: omg sikrits

23:34:01 benkay: shh

23:34:04 deanclkclk: hello? anyone can let me know if this idea makes any sense?

23:34:04 ThickAsThieves: lol

23:34:09 benkay: yes

23:34:12 benkay: now go do it

23:34:23 benkay: less talk, more do.

23:34:29 deanclkclk: benkay: u are not bullshitting me right?

23:34:32 deanclkclk: lol

23:34:34 ThickAsThieves: it sounds more like a feature than an exhange dean

23:34:34 benkay: not at all

23:34:46 ThickAsThieves: like a tickbox by my order fields

23:34:55 deanclkclk: yes

23:34:58 ThickAsThieves: X Full Spend if Overbid?

23:35:03 deanclkclk: yes

23:35:04 Duffer1: i don't see why you would want to dean, a person can just set their price to buy until their 100 is spent

23:35:18 benkay: you make an exchange, i'll audit it for you.

23:35:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.0008713 = 9.5843 BTC [-]

23:35:40 benkay: all the audits going to say is probably something like "kinda full of holes, operationally bogus, liable to lose your coins"

23:35:40 ThickAsThieves: why market buy when you can pseudo market buy?

23:35:48 deanclkclk: if you say so benkay

23:36:02 deanclkclk: but, it will be in beta

23:36:15 benkay: deal? you stop bothering us about this until it's done, when it's done i audit your codebase.

23:36:21 deanclkclk: what do you mean Duffer1 ?

23:36:38 ThickAsThieves: i like how beta means "dont look at me if your money disappears"

23:36:51 Duffer1: well what happens right now if you place a 100$ bid for btc on btc-e?

23:36:56 deanclkclk: no..it's fake coins

23:37:00 deanclkclk: well play coins

23:37:02 deanclkclk: just for testing

23:37:21 deanclkclk: then when launch..the site will provide 3 months of trading free

23:37:31 Duffer1: if your bid matches a sell, the exchange executes the trade for however much the seller sold

23:37:48 Duffer1: your position is still open if you have any money left and no sellers willing to meat your price

23:37:57 deanclkclk: hopefully ...after about 10 months. We could insure folks coins but not like 100%

23:37:58 Duffer1: meet

23:38:08 ThickAsThieves: lol

23:38:15 mircea_popescu: the decision of how many months of free trade to have is a resolution of the greater issue of how to market a product, which is in turn decided and framed by greater issues.

23:38:39 mircea_popescu: to have fixed answers for such low level questions at this juncture merely indicates you do not have the intellectual resources to correctly model the problem you declare./

23:38:58 Apocalyptic: <deanclkclk> hopefully ...after about 10 months. We could insure folks coins but not like 100% // good luck with that

23:39:12 deanclkclk: why Apocalyptic ?

23:39:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 377 @ 0.05626923 = 21.2135 BTC [-] {12}

23:39:35 ThickAsThieves: lol

23:40:08 deanclkclk: I wasn't asking question mircea_popescu I was pitching an idea

23:40:17 deanclkclk: go fuck yourself

23:40:22 mircea_popescu: derp.

23:40:27 pankkake: :(

23:40:42 ThickAsThieves: ;;roulette

23:40:42 gribble: *click*

23:41:03 ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats

23:41:06 gribble: Current Blocks: 286068 | Current Difficulty: 2.6214044530646152E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 286271 | Next Difficulty In: 203 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3092710570.63 | Estimated Percent Change: 17.97915

23:41:37 deanclkclk: from my first sentence..you've been making me out to be a mentally retarded idiot

23:41:48 Duffer1: don't take that personally hehe

23:41:52 deanclkclk: rather than complain..offer suggestions

23:41:54 Duffer1: have you read fraudsters?

23:41:56 mircea_popescu: i wasn't making you out.

23:42:13 deanclkclk: I don't know everything...that's why I asked for answers...suggestions

23:42:13 mircea_popescu: and you are neither at liberty to judge me nor are you at liberty to make recommendation.

23:42:29 mircea_popescu: more importantly, you aren't at liberty to ignore the recommendations i make. re-read the log, they're there.

23:42:45 mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of you "not knowing everything", implying we are somehow equal.

23:43:00 mircea_popescu: it is a matter of you not knowing anything, not even sufficiently something to allow you to understand how little you know.

23:43:23 deanclkclk: man

23:44:04 mircea_popescu: ayup.

23:44:25 mircea_popescu: so now that we understand ourselves, get in the wot, stfu and read the log for a while, then we can talk again.

23:45:35 ThickAsThieves: deanclkclk log.bitcoin-assets.com, http://assass.headfucking.net/

23:45:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06950005 = 0.139 BTC [-]

23:46:23 ThickAsThieves: and http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Main_Page

23:46:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00087689 = 2.6307 BTC [+]

23:46:42 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, pankkake you may wanna take out the OTQuMjMuMjE1LjE3NA== part.

23:46:49 mircea_popescu: it's there so i can ip-ban spammy rss stealers.

23:48:10 benkay: deanclkclk: you agreed to bugger off 'till you delivered something i can audit. now do so.

23:48:12 davout: Duffer1: looks interesting, i see nothing obviously sketchy for the service

23:48:28 pankkake: I don't know if I can apply filters to this thing

23:48:58 davout: ThickAsThieves: vaultofsatoshi has like a 11-people team, that sounds big for an exchange that does 400 weekly volume

23:49:12 mircea_popescu: davout who are the 11 people ?

23:49:17 Duffer1: davout ya it's just insured cold storage, but maybe lloyds would be approachable about insuring an exchange

23:49:19 ThickAsThieves: i know nothing of it

23:49:28 ThickAsThieves: just recalled the name for some reason

23:49:33 davout: the insured guys are elliptic.co btw

23:49:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [-]

23:49:51 davout: mircea_popescu: https://www.vaultofsatoshi.com/about

23:50:04 mircea_popescu: davout so there's 11 stock pics or w/e.

23:50:06 benkay: and maybe in retrospect it's not so much a shorting as entering into an option to spend some time if the guy leaves us alone, delivery of which he'll take when/if he delivers

23:50:09 deanclkclk: I'll try another irc. You guys are too playful to be taken seriously

23:50:19 benkay: deanclkclk does that mean our deal's off?

23:50:44 ThickAsThieves: your loss

23:50:55 benkay: play is an important part of thinking

23:50:56 Duffer1: i doubt very much you'll receive competent advice elsewhere

23:50:57 ThickAsThieves: go check out bitcoin-dev or something i guess

23:51:04 mircea_popescu: benkay Yeah, I?m getting rid of all my furniture. All of it. And I?m going to build these different levels, with steps, and it?ll all be carpeted with a lot of pillows. You know, like ancient Egypt.

23:51:12 davout: mircea_popescu: exactly, which looks sketchy

23:51:46 davout: deanclkclk: you want advice to create your exchange?

23:52:12 benkay: deanclkclk: you might listen to davout he does what you're dreaming of doing.

23:52:19 deanclkclk: I don't want on how to create an exchange. I'm just pitching my idea to get a feel of what people think

23:52:21 mircea_popescu: davout is too playful to be taken srsly.

23:52:40 deanclkclk: want a how to*

23:52:55 davout: deanclkclk: so you want a howto about how to create an exchange?

23:53:07 deanclkclk: lol

23:53:09 deanclkclk: oh boy

23:53:25 mircea_popescu: i could use a how to on how to.

23:53:35 ThickAsThieves: OpenEx is opensource, use that

23:53:37 benkay: yeah your howotos suck, mircea_popescu

23:53:41 Apocalyptic: (don't)

23:53:54 mircea_popescu: WHAT!

23:53:58 benkay: it's like you write 'em yourself or something ;)

23:54:03 mircea_popescu: i am so misunderstood. nobody understands me

23:54:10 mircea_popescu: im going to shoot myself with the stapler gun nao

23:54:12 benkay: well you write for yourself, is it any surprise?

23:54:31 davout: deanclkclk: oh sorry, I misread, what's your idea?

23:54:31 benkay: jurov had to pay me to write a manual for your "exchange"

23:55:10 Duffer1: ha i told stringpuller there was money there like months ago

23:55:14 deanclkclk: davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for

23:55:19 ThickAsThieves: what i hate about mpex is, whenever i overbid, i have btc left unspent, fukn noobs

23:55:46 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i was in talks with some people to recharge your phone after bids if there's like stuff left over

23:56:04 mircea_popescu: however i think they od'd or something because i haven't heard from them in a while

23:56:15 deanclkclk: do you folks trade on sites or mobile apps?

23:56:48 pankkake: idea: when you overpay for shares, it is distributer to the seller; we would call this tipping

23:56:50 ThickAsThieves: mostly via SMS

23:56:58 mircea_popescu: whoa a TIPPING EXCHANGE

23:57:08 Apocalyptic: <deanclkclk> davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for // so what about it ?

23:57:10 mircea_popescu: it could be all coded in doge-os

23:57:37 BingoBoingo: doge.js

23:57:38 pankkake: well, http://lolcode.org/

23:57:49 deanclkclk: dajavu but, anyways

23:57:52 pankkake: omg "now with doge"

23:57:54 Apocalyptic: BTC China already has these rebates, where the fee for the liquidity taker goes to the one who put up the bid/ask

23:58:03 mircea_popescu: i wonder if praeconium has an evil sock meconium

23:58:12 davout: deanclkclk: that's your idea for an exchange?

23:58:39 deanclkclk: I bid a $100 for 1 BTC and I find a ask for $95.

23:58:45 benkay: doge-vu

23:58:55 davout: i spend all the 100$ and get more btc

23:58:59 davout: yeah i got that

23:59:07 deanclkclk: and use the $5 dollars to find an additional ask

23:59:22 BingoBoingo: "I'm fucking sick of hearing people say use your brian, etc." https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467059.msg5167848#msg5167848

23:59:47 davout: deanclkclk: this is not a very interesting idea, and certainly not an idea worth building an exchange around

23:59:59 deanclkclk: so basically you could have a case where for the original $100 for 1 BTC..I get 1.02 btc