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Transcript for 15-07-2014, 1467 lines:

00:00:09 Azelphur: kakobrekla: breakup a few months ago now :P

00:00:22 kakobrekla: so she was after the money ?

00:00:29 Azelphur: nah, never asked and never got

00:01:32 mircea_popescu: ok so, mpex report : the servers are built and racked. they have power. os installed. networking isn't working properly, clustering software being hammered into shape.

00:03:20 mircea_popescu: Azelphur you know nubbins can make you that shirt.

00:03:27 Azelphur: fun :)

00:03:36 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla she was after the big ding dongs.

00:03:57 kakobrekla: possibly.

00:06:34 mircea_popescu: skinny is deprecating ?!

00:10:53 mircea_popescu: ahahahaah okcupid blog links their competitor as sausageparty.com

00:12:27 benkay: the joys of private ownership.

00:14:15 mircea_popescu: ikr?

00:14:39 benkay: when does it make sense to do a public offering? as in - why would i ever do that?

00:16:04 mircea_popescu: would you fuck a stranger ?

00:20:52 mthreat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ht9VZ9RB_w

00:20:52 assbot: When you fuck a stranger in the ass - YouTube

00:24:08 mircea_popescu: lol

00:24:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.18699994 = 0.935 BTC [+] {2}

00:31:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 247 @ 0.00282 = 0.6965 BTC [-]

01:15:44 benkay: but if i make a profitable thing, why list it on mpex?

01:21:35 peterl: benkay: if you need more capital to grow, then you IPO to get an influx of cash

01:23:03 peterl: or if you want hookers and blow now instead of waiting patiently for your money?

01:24:28 benkay: but mike doesn't need capital

01:24:32 benkay: nor kakobrekla

01:24:45 benkay: (mike_c, that is)

01:25:15 benkay: is it a generous donation to the ecosystem? "here i made this thing and by my grace you can partake of its profits"?

01:25:21 mike_c: WoL does need capital. hence the loan from mpif

01:25:49 benkay: i clearly don't understand WoL in dpeth.

01:26:00 mike_c: join the club. i'm working on that.

01:27:03 peterl: you are saying there is nothing you could do with more money?

01:28:01 benkay: what does WoL need more capital for? seeding pots?

01:28:13 mike_c: minigames are bets against the house

01:28:31 benkay: rgr

01:28:37 peterl: so it is acting as a casino?

01:28:56 ThickAsThieves: of course not!

01:29:00 mike_c: don't be silly

01:29:07 mike_c: more like a cryptocurrency playground

01:29:22 ThickAsThieves: like a chuck e cheese

01:29:23 peterl: cryptocurrency casino?

01:29:51 mike_c: ^ like TaT said. put your tokens in, get little tickets.

01:30:01 mike_c: redeem tickets for stuffed animals.

01:30:04 peterl: ah, no chance of getting money back?

01:30:13 mike_c: "money". you can get bitcoin back.

01:30:54 ThickAsThieves: blowstamps

01:31:08 mike_c: the irs explicitly said bitcoin isn't money

01:31:25 ThickAsThieves: well...

01:31:28 ThickAsThieves: irs doesnt get to decide

01:31:32 peterl: but bitcoin is what you put in

01:31:41 mike_c: bitcoin is what you put in. bitcoin is what you get out.

01:31:45 mike_c: or Altcoin!

01:31:54 peterl: so it looks like a casino

01:31:56 *: ThickAsThieves watches planes fly over peterl's head

01:32:04 mike_c: i think of it more as a playground.

01:32:39 peterl: and what are the buildings in vegas if not playgrounds too?

01:33:39 mike_c: WoL doesn't have any magicians

01:34:25 peterl: why not? that would make it more fun!

01:34:35 mike_c: it's true. i'll put it on the list

01:40:26 benkay: <peterl> you are saying there is nothing you could do with more money? // riddle me this - what does bitbet do with the money?

01:41:36 peterl: I dunno exactly? Seed bets, buy advertising, maintain servers?

01:45:50 benkay: i wonder what kind of load bitbet supports.

01:45:59 benkay: hey kakobrekla can you clue us into the traffic bitbet's pushing?

01:46:09 mike_c: bitbet does nothing with the money. it's a zac

01:49:04 decimation: asciilifeform: re: 8-cat brigade: http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/howard/news/ph-ll-cats-stray-20110706,0,6849157.story

01:49:05 assbot: Number of stray cats on the rise in Laurel and Prince George's County - baltimoresun.com

01:49:06 benkay: so then we come back to my question - why would an an0 company list publically?

01:49:27 mike_c: liquidity for the owners is a big reason

01:49:35 decimation: "According to Volack, most of the stray and wild cats in the city are usually spotted in backyards, and she sometimes gets resistance when she tries to trap the cats. "I've been trying my hardest to capture the strays and feral cats and kittens, but I have just as many people who don't want me to trap them as those who do.""

01:49:37 mike_c: and you mean zac

01:49:44 benkay: right, yes i do

01:49:45 mike_c: an0 = asset non-zero

01:51:33 benkay: so there's the answer i'm looking for - liquidity for the owners.

01:51:53 mike_c: that is one answer. another might have to do with mp's desire to build an ecosystem. but i'll leave that answer to him.

01:52:49 benkay: <benkay> is it a generous donation to the ecosystem? "here i made this thing and by my grace you can partake of its profits"?

01:53:06 benkay: hey i'm learning

01:53:10 benkay: slowly, but...

01:53:39 mike_c: you are making me answer for him, which i am not qualified to do. but I would guess two things. 1) yes 2) mayhaps some people benefit from advancing the ecosystem.

01:54:02 benkay: the old "adoption" thing.

01:54:34 benkay: apologies, i didnt mean to imply that i was re-asking the question, more that i'd already guessed that was a reason.

01:55:43 peterl: benkay: so there's the answer i'm looking for - liquidity for the owners. << as I said, they want their hookers and blow now

01:56:12 decimation: I think there's a pent-up demand for bitcoin income

01:56:31 mike_c: why does bitcoin price go up? "adoption" seems a poor answer to me. to me it is because the value of the whole system actually increases. perhaps part of that value increase is due to having a more vibrant financial ecosystem.

01:56:33 decimation: seems to me that if you think you can grow your company with more investment, you find investors to grow it

02:00:53 decimation: lol http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/121121.html "Ear-tipped cats are feral cats that have been trapped, neutered, and then re-released. "

02:00:55 assbot: Prince Georges County Council Ignores Slaughter of Wildlife – Chooses Protection of Feral Cats

02:01:22 decimation: don't forget about the cats! they need equality too!

02:01:59 mike_c: ok testers, WoL just shipped websockets for the minigames.

02:02:18 mike_c: so plz find the bugs.

02:02:36 mike_c: ;;later tell punkman you can lose your money faster now. minigames have websockets.

02:02:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:03:52 mike_c: and direct opera bugs to /dev/null (just kidding kako)

02:14:37 mircea_popescu: !up chairforce1

02:15:10 mircea_popescu: <benkay> but if i make a profitable thing, why list it on mpex? << nobody's holding a gun to your head no ?

02:15:18 chairforce1: cool thanks

02:17:49 mircea_popescu: yw. who are you ?

02:18:19 benkay: <mircea_popescu> <benkay> but if i make a profitable thing, why list it on mpex? << nobody's holding a gun to your head no ? // clearly. but why did bitbet list?

02:18:24 chairforce1: just a guy who likes bitcoin

02:18:31 benkay: !s chairforce1

02:18:32 assbot: 102 results for 'chairforce1' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=chairforce1

02:18:44 mircea_popescu: what srsly

02:18:48 chairforce1: there thats me

02:18:49 benkay: old man

02:18:52 benkay: memory going ;)

02:19:22 mircea_popescu: seems so.

02:19:33 benkay: those three days up in a row

02:21:20 mircea_popescu: why the existential q's anyway ?

02:21:40 mircea_popescu: it's like "why get married", "why make friends", "why eat a steak" or w/e.

02:22:09 benkay: what, listing on mpex tastes good?

02:22:22 benkay: it does, no q, but is that the sole roi?

02:22:38 benkay: mostly 'cause i'm a derpy young thing trying to not. lose. money.

02:22:54 mircea_popescu: existential questions are fundamentally broken because things that exist exist in an infinity of ways, whereas things that are represented are represented in a finite manner.

02:23:14 mircea_popescu: the existential question either exploits or bumbles into this fundamental problem. it can never have an actual answer,

02:23:27 mircea_popescu: much like you can't be delivered the notion of pear or the sadness of joseph.

02:24:58 benkay: well, you'll note the particular questions sprinkled in there.

02:25:19 mircea_popescu: i thought those were answered.

02:25:20 benkay: like - why did bitbet?

02:26:07 mircea_popescu: but in general : a listed company has some advantages, and some disadvantages. let's look into it.

02:26:14 mthreat: one reason to take investment, even if you could fund it out of your own pocket, is to offset risk from yourself to investors.

02:26:30 mircea_popescu: Capital : a listed company has more capital, and more ready access to capital.

02:26:48 mircea_popescu: Networking : for one thing, your investors are your best pr.

02:27:00 mircea_popescu: Scoring : you get to know how good you're doing, as a manger.

02:27:28 mircea_popescu: these also work together, like n+s : more people are paying attention, so it works like open source for your accounting, for instance.

02:27:54 mircea_popescu: it also has some disadvantages, such as a loss of control, or association with another party or whatever.

02:28:13 mircea_popescu: supposedly mpex manages to mitigate the drawbacks while supercharging the advnatages,

02:28:32 mircea_popescu: but this is really like the discussion of whether bitcoin or network difficulty are too high or too low or w/e.

02:29:59 mircea_popescu: a more practical approach is to look at "why do people get into the wot ?" and go from there. why do people finish highschool ? why do people go on to college ? should everyone with a hs diploma strive to go to college ? etc.

02:30:59 mike_c: mp also has a theory that listing prevents competition because they can just invest in you instead of building a copy.

02:31:35 benkay: very educational. thank you all.

02:32:03 mircea_popescu: this is in fact correct. if someone wants exposure to x market, with a company in x market listed his options are "invest or roll your own"

02:32:16 mircea_popescu: but without, his options are "roll your own". which is in fact often inefficient.

02:32:41 mircea_popescu: so yes, it IS a gift to the community. just, not in the sense you'd think. it's the sort of gift you're not at a loss for giving, like sharing music.

02:33:27 benkay: one'd only roll their own if the existing solution were such crap that it could easily be beat in the market.

02:33:35 mircea_popescu: or if they need it.

02:34:12 mircea_popescu: you know ? if you want to make whatsapp and there's no phone carrier, now what ?

02:34:13 decimation: it seems to me that there's a pent-up demand for income for those who are holders of bitcoin

02:35:33 mircea_popescu: decimation experience shows that approach is not only theoretically naive, but also actually leads to failure.

02:37:37 mircea_popescu: this okcupid stuff is a goldmine. "Another inquiry that had unexpected results: we asked 252,900 straight people have you ever had a sexual encounter with someone of the same sex?". men : 7% did and enjoyed it ; 6% did and didn't enjoy it ; 5% didn't but would like to try. women : 26% did and enjoy it ; 7% didn't enjoy it ; 18% would like to try it.

02:38:24 mircea_popescu: no mention of age, but I am ready to take a bet that your average highschool today is half-bi, half bi-curious gals.

02:39:16 mircea_popescu: http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/gaystraight/HeatMap.png << also canada has been renamed gaynada nao.

02:41:14 decimation: I guess I was thinking of reasons why "the public" would bother to invest in a publically available stock.

02:41:39 mircea_popescu: you mean what, fiat ? or small btc holders ?

02:42:45 thestringpuller: what's that a heat map of?

02:42:51 mircea_popescu: gayness.

02:42:57 mircea_popescu: red is most gay.

02:43:11 mircea_popescu: ( http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/gay-sex-vs-straight-sex/ sauce)

02:43:12 assbot: Gay Sex vs. Straight Sex « OkTrends

02:43:29 danielpbarron: there are no gays in mexico apparently

02:43:32 decimation: small btc holders, looking for income

02:43:35 danielpbarron: they must have the same policy as iran

02:43:59 mircea_popescu: http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/gaystraight/WhichIsBiggerCredit.png << womenz are smarts.

02:44:18 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron this is false, i personally had drinks with a bunch of openly gay people there.

02:44:31 mircea_popescu: o lol you went by map. i think they just didn't fill it in

02:44:37 danielpbarron: hehe

02:45:29 decimation: !up chairforce1

02:47:37 mircea_popescu: wtf is "the l word"

02:48:17 danielpbarron: the show or the word? either way it's about lesbians

02:48:21 decimation: probably this http://www.sho.com/sho/the-l-word/home

02:48:23 assbot: Showtime : The L Word : Home

02:48:39 danielpbarron: it's basically porn but with much more dialog

02:49:07 mircea_popescu: oh i c

02:49:23 chairforce1: thanks decimation

02:50:18 asciilifeform: from the lolfarms: http://cryptome.org/2014/07/nsa-jtrigall-intercept-14-0714.pdf

02:50:56 mircea_popescu: We selected 526,000 OkCupid users at random and divided them into groups by their (self-stated) race. We then took all these people's profile essays (280 million words in total!) << ok this makes me fucking curious.

02:53:11 asciilifeform: ^ tldr: massive catalogue of usg... spam tools.

02:54:17 decimation: ultimately the usg depends on "likes" in the polling booth, right?

02:54:40 asciilifeform: the 'ddos mpex' script is probably in there.

02:55:38 asciilifeform: 'swamp donkey' << lol! apparently a usg version of 'cryptolocker'

02:56:04 mircea_popescu: decimation how ?

02:56:35 decimation: well, I'm thinking of "likes" of its foreign policy

02:57:24 asciilifeform: 'quincy... exploitation of seized media' << another mega-lol

02:58:30 asciilifeform: 'nevis... is a tool developed by NTAC to search disk images for possible Encryption products. CMA have further developed this tool to look for signs of Steganography'

02:58:59 asciilifeform: this reminds me of a story

02:59:57 mircea_popescu: is it good ?

03:00:07 decimation: I wonder why usg & hmg bother to pay "spies" to ... secretly watch ebay auctions

03:00:27 asciilifeform: one of my first job interviews out of uni. telephone. a fellow from one of the giant gov. contractors was really intrigued that i know x86 asm., have reversed crud for money. i ask him 'what's the job'. he: automated reversing. me: of what. he: ever hear of karatsuba's algo? me: sure. bignum mult. him: well, we wanna find encryption softs on terrorist drives!

03:00:53 asciilifeform: me: why would terrorist run ms-win. he: they will always, trust me.

03:02:11 asciilifeform: so now we see that these (likely same, but usg never commissions just one turd of a particular variety) idiots did indeed crap out something like a $1B version of 'ida hexray.'

03:04:56 mircea_popescu: lol

03:05:08 asciilifeform: this is the most riotously funny nsa turd yet.

03:05:10 asciilifeform: bar none.

03:05:30 mircea_popescu: enjoyment is the mind killer.

03:05:41 chairforce1: im out, thanks for the ups

03:08:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 660 @ 0.00275057 = 1.8154 BTC [-] {7}

03:12:10 decimation: asciilifeform: http://norvig.com/python-lisp.html < educational for a python programmer like me

03:16:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 15 @ 0.03507553 = 0.5261 BTC [-] {8}

03:33:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 238 @ 0.00281994 = 0.6711 BTC [-] {3}

03:36:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 95 @ 0.18023998 = 17.1228 BTC [-] {13}

04:48:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.1774593 = 0.7098 BTC [-] {4}

05:44:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00270404 = 2.4336 BTC [-] {13}

06:49:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.17085641 = 2.9046 BTC [-] {6}

06:50:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.16583334 = 0.995 BTC [-] {2}

07:14:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00170604 = 0.853 BTC [-] {4}

09:03:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01630197 = 0.6521 BTC [+] {5}

10:57:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 575 @ 0.003 = 1.725 BTC [-] {10}

13:52:57 danielpbarron: yay!!

13:52:59 mircea_popescu: lmao

13:54:25 mircea_popescu: !up fluffypony

13:54:29 mircea_popescu: lol

13:54:35 pankkake: !up fluffypony

13:54:37 fluffypony: tks

13:54:42 fluffypony: still need to eauth

13:55:00 mircea_popescu: fluffypony so not that terribly interesting, the sort of "i've done google research from the us" article.

13:55:58 fluffypony: I can't even remember which article it was

13:56:02 fluffypony: slow brain day

13:56:26 mircea_popescu: http://www.singularityisnear.co/bitcoins/bitcoin-industry-thrives-in-argentina

13:56:27 assbot: Bitcoin industry thrives in Argentina. "A new safe haven". - Singularityisnear

13:56:32 fluffypony: ah yes

13:56:48 mircea_popescu: dumb shit like "counting sites" and doing site per million inhabitants comparisons

13:56:53 mircea_popescu: as if that fucking makes any difference.

13:57:01 fluffypony: heh heh

13:57:07 fluffypony: Internet marketing types :-P

13:59:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcclicks.com/ads << look at these fuckwits jesus god.

13:59:28 assbot: Surf Advertisements | BTC Clicks | Earn Bitcoins - Bitcoin Advertising - Bitcoin PTC

13:59:37 mircea_popescu: so a) they advertise in google, paying top dollar (1st result)

13:59:47 mircea_popescu: b) they run the dumbass iframe model

14:00:03 mircea_popescu: c) their publishers include luminaries such as "fair ponzi"

14:00:15 mircea_popescu: d) they... actually... run A DIFFERENT AD NETWORK in their dash.

14:58:35 bitcoinpete: https://twitter.com/alansilbert/status/489059224349978624

14:58:51 bitcoinpete: "@jgarzik Jeff, is there a dumbed-down explanation somewhere of how to set up a node?"

15:00:19 danielpbarron: dummies shouldn't run nodes

15:01:26 bitcoinpete: just linked him pankkake's article on running a remote one

15:01:46 pankkake: I should test it before :p

15:02:09 pankkake: I'm not sure debian runs it by default

15:02:29 bitcoinpete: lol

15:02:50 bitcoinpete: hurry! before the veecees break something!

15:03:15 bitcoinpete: dood already fav'd my tweet!

15:04:44 bitcoinpete: lol bitstein told alan silbert to download the core client and… run it.

15:05:07 bitcoinpete: alan's all: "Thanks Michael. Now I feel really dumb to have not found that easier. Thx!"

15:06:41 fluffypony: yeah

15:09:03 bitcoinpete: so mr fluffypony when can we look forward to reading your tales of baltic adventures?

15:09:12 pankkake: is that the guy who bought all the coins?

15:09:24 pankkake: quick, send him some forum IPOs

15:09:45 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: this week, hopefully, been insanely busy

15:10:56 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: what's keeping you occupied?

15:11:16 bitcoinpete: pankkake: the silberts tried to buy the sr coins and… failed

15:11:23 bitcoinpete: tim draper took 'em all down

15:11:31 bitcoinpete: heya bitstein

15:11:53 bitcoinpete: we were just mentioning you vis-a-vis silbert's node

15:12:11 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: had lots of catch-up work to do, missed a group exco meeting whilst I was away

15:12:43 fluffypony: and then we're tendering for a sales office on an estate on the Garden Route that has tons of holiday homes for rent

15:12:50 bitstein: hey bitcoinpete

15:13:01 fluffypony: so there's a ton of work on that to finalise before the 25th

15:14:36 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: a i c

15:14:58 bitcoinpete: bitstein: what's good?

15:15:39 bitcoinpete: "With apologies to both F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway, it seems the rich are not only different than you and me; they also have even more money than we previously thought." << que bueno!

15:15:49 bitstein: started the homestretch of school yesterday

15:16:03 bitcoinpete: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-15/the-rich-are-even-richer

15:16:04 assbot: The Rich Are Even Richer - Bloomberg View

15:16:14 bitcoinpete: bitstein: atta boy

15:17:10 bitstein: yourself?

15:18:16 bitcoinpete: can't complain really

15:20:46 bitcoinpete: "BRICS -- are due to approve the creation of a new currency reserve fund and development bank at their summit in Brazil, which starts today."

15:21:12 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: get them to use bitcoin ;)

15:21:20 fluffypony: that's the idea ;)

15:22:46 bitcoinpete: brazil is having all the funz this summer

15:25:51 nubbins`: got this email from our t-shirt supplier today

15:25:57 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/WO0zFLb

15:25:57 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

15:26:15 nubbins`: HEY GUYS HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON A GIRL

15:26:22 nubbins`: SO YOU CAN SHOW YOUR CUSTOMERS

15:29:14 fluffypony: hah hah

15:29:34 fluffypony: "skunk and her gay best friend"

15:29:37 fluffypony: skank

15:29:49 fluffypony: or maybe skunk

15:30:25 mircea_popescu: !up non2

15:30:29 mircea_popescu: !up bitstein

15:30:31 nubbins`: seriously, what am i supposed to do with that image

15:31:40 mircea_popescu: !up non2

15:31:46 bitcoinpete: nubbins`: add them to the20year's posters?

15:32:20 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that girl doesn't eat does she.

15:32:46 bitstein: mircea_popescu: I found you extending the highest praise to me and my crew just days before I joined #b-a: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-04-2014#644307

15:32:47 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log

15:33:12 nubbins`: maybe she eats t-shirts

15:33:38 nubbins`: same style shirt, different company:

15:33:41 nubbins`: http://i.americanapparel.net/storefront/photos/zoom/serve.asp?media=bb453w_White_KellyGreen.jpg&r=us1

15:34:00 mircea_popescu: bitstein reading the log pays huh

15:34:14 ThickAsThieves: tshirt companies are all about teh sex now huh

15:34:45 mircea_popescu: what exactly is the point of tshirts aside from easy access to tits ?

15:34:46 nubbins`: gildan is still pretty corny

15:34:55 nubbins`: mp, they're so comfy ;(

15:35:57 mircea_popescu: wifebeaters are comfier no ?

15:36:24 nubbins`: nah, ribbed plus seams are bigger

15:36:48 nubbins`: a nice soft t-shirt is like being draped in jersey-knit bedsheets

15:37:26 mircea_popescu: uh

15:37:26 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: but womenz *hate* wifebeaters

15:37:36 mircea_popescu: they do ?!

15:37:46 *: nubbins` nods

15:37:47 mircea_popescu: maybe if they have small boobs and ugly tattoos

15:37:49 bitcoinpete: the clothing more than the type of dood

15:37:50 nubbins`: they're pretty greasy

15:38:04 bitcoinpete: men love the airy pits

15:38:13 bitcoinpete: women just… don't grok

15:38:51 nubbins`: well, the problem is that men who wear them are generally slobs

15:39:03 nubbins`: and nobody wants to see a slob's gross yellow armpits

15:39:46 bitcoinpete: the slob angle is a point

15:39:53 bitcoinpete: it's no 3-piece

15:40:05 *: mircea_popescu actually wears a button down shirt.

15:40:16 nubbins`: take a well-kempt person in one, and sure. looks fine. but then, most things do

15:40:35 nubbins`: (well-kempt!)

15:40:46 mircea_popescu: mein kempt!

15:40:47 nubbins`: lel

15:43:17 nubbins`: ah, google has added btc to their currency converter

15:43:22 nubbins`: ;;google 1btc in cad

15:43:22 gribble: Convert Bitcoins (BTC) and Canadian Dollars (CAD): Currency ...: http://coinmill.com/BTC_CAD.html; CAD - Preev: http://preev.com/btc/cad; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - $670.15 CAD - bitcoinexchangerate.org: http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/c/CAD

15:43:30 nubbins`: wait, right, doesn't work like that

15:44:04 bitcoinpete: they're saying 673

15:44:05 bitcoinpete: neat

15:44:05 nubbins`: anyway. wonder where they're getting their prices from

15:44:09 fluffypony: ;;google convert 1 btc to zar

15:44:10 gribble: Bitcoin to South African Rand Rate — Bitcoin Live Converter — Preev: http://preev.com/btc/zar; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - 6663.292 ZAR - bitcoinexchangerate.org: http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/c/ZAR; 1 Bitcoin to South African Rand, 1 BTC to ZAR Currency Converter: http://www.likeforex.com/currency-converter/bitcoin-btc_zar-south-african-rand.htm/1

15:44:28 nubbins`: you gotta actually type it into google.com ;(

15:44:35 fluffypony: yeah

15:44:35 fluffypony: sucks

15:44:54 mircea_popescu: 1 Bitcoin equals 666 Canadian Dollar

15:44:58 mircea_popescu: omg end of daez

15:45:26 nubbins`: https://www.google.ca/#q=1btc+in+zar

15:45:26 assbot: Google

15:46:32 bitcoinpete: heh google doesn't even do that for gold

15:46:38 bitcoinpete: what is bitcoin, money nao?

15:47:08 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is cool.

15:48:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 300 @ 0.00272161 = 0.8165 BTC [-] {10}

15:48:48 mircea_popescu: so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ?

15:51:34 mircea_popescu: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/15/portugal-bes-rioforte-idUKL6N0PQ41920140715

15:51:35 assbot: Rioforte prepares to file for creditor protection| Reuters

15:51:57 mircea_popescu: portugal is so gutted...

15:53:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.0026513 = 2.6513 BTC [-] {9}

15:55:11 nubbins`: http://youtu.be/0gKWfvd-chA?t=2m39s

15:55:12 assbot: EHX Reggie Watts explores the new 45000 multi-track looping recorder - YouTube

15:55:20 nubbins`: amazing

15:55:20 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

15:58:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01659994 = 0.664 BTC [-] {4}

15:59:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.79080888 BTC to 12`347 shares, 14504 satoshi per share

16:00:13 ThickAsThieves: <@mircea_popescu> so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ? /// I've notable experience, if not somewhat dated

16:01:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] [PAID] 2.99981269 BTC to 152`507 shares, 1967 satoshi per share

16:03:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 19.36579792 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1684 satoshi per share

16:03:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 46 @ 0.01679889 = 0.7727 BTC [+] {2}

16:04:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/10965887/People-who-claim-to-worry-about-climate-change-use-more-electricity.html

16:04:00 assbot: People who claim to worry about climate change use more electricity - Telegraph

16:06:22 kakobrekla: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/vagina-selfie-for-3d-printers-lands-japanese-artist-in-trouble

16:06:22 assbot: Vagina selfie for 3D printers lands Japanese artist in trouble | World news | theguardian.com

16:06:44 danielpbarron: obviously they use more electricity! they can't use coal or gas!

16:07:06 danielpbarron: how do i make a tounge-in-cheek emoticon?

16:07:25 nubbins`: try using a lower-case p

16:07:42 ThickAsThieves: japanese poon is upside down

16:07:43 ThickAsThieves: ?

16:07:51 mircea_popescu: depends

16:08:01 mircea_popescu: if she;s being fingertrapped, not usually.

16:08:53 pankkake: this matches the people I know - and not only electricity

16:09:03 danielpbarron: lol she's got her "i'm making art" hat on

16:10:00 mircea_popescu: "Last month it took more than 20 firefighters to free a US student who had become trapped inside a giant sculpture of a vagina in Germany."

16:10:07 mircea_popescu: now we know how many muricans it takes to fill a cunt.

16:16:21 mircea_popescu: http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-04/enhanced/webdr06/7/5/enhanced-buzz-wide-2242-1396863916-10.jpg

16:27:21 BigBitz: mircea_popescu I thought you'd have a beard/shorter hair.

16:27:50 mircea_popescu: actually i do have a beard.

16:30:14 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u11gyD9cf5o check out these derps

16:30:14 assbot: PAX East 2011 Triple Threat: The Origin of Dudebro - YouTube

16:41:22 ThickAsThieves: network broke 1 yottahash

16:41:26 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

16:41:27 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days

16:41:31 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

16:41:32 gribble: 125644233.459

16:41:48 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

16:41:49 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days

16:41:50 ThickAsThieves: oops

16:41:53 ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats

16:41:56 gribble: Current Blocks: 310863 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1616 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17567924696.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.33597

16:42:21 penguirker: New blog post: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/07/15/why-list-on-mpex/

16:42:29 ThickAsThieves: it's actually leveling off huh

16:42:39 bitcoinpete: seems to be

16:42:42 ThickAsThieves: bitcoins bout to get spensive

16:43:03 mircea_popescu: prolly.

16:43:33 bitcoinpete: how's that logic figure?

16:43:53 ThickAsThieves: well miners already paid for their shit

16:44:00 ThickAsThieves: they dont turn it off, they sell higher

16:44:20 bitcoinpete: a ok

16:44:27 ThickAsThieves: mining adds like what 3500 coins each day?

16:44:52 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 3600*24/512*25

16:44:52 gribble: 4218.75

16:49:04 Xplosionist: ;;calc 6*24*25

16:49:04 gribble: 3600

16:49:36 Xplosionist: mircea_popescu: Where did you get your numbers? I just did "6 per hour", which is of course only the theory, not the reality.

16:49:49 mircea_popescu: Xplosionist it's a joke. atc has 512 second blocks.

16:50:34 Xplosionist: mircea_popescu: Okay. I just "didn't get it". ;-)

16:52:18 mircea_popescu: !up Rassah

16:52:32 Rassah: Heard you guys were talking about us in here :)

16:52:42 mircea_popescu: so i am listening to this limp bizkit thing. is it like some sort of wannabe offspring, 20 years later ?

16:52:48 mircea_popescu: Rassah who's us ?

16:53:00 Rassah: Mycelium

16:53:08 mircea_popescu: !s mycelium

16:53:09 assbot: 23 results for 'mycelium' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mycelium

16:53:15 Rassah: specifically kickstarter projects, Entropy, etc.

16:53:41 mircea_popescu: kickstarter projects are common lulz fuel here ya

16:53:46 Rassah: !s Entropy

16:53:47 assbot: 168 results for 'Entropy' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Entropy

16:53:55 bitcoinpete: so are "entropy generators"

16:53:59 mircea_popescu: that's prolly mostly the physical concept.

16:54:01 bitcoinpete: hey Rassah

16:54:08 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot Rassah

16:54:08 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Rassah: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Rassah | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Rassah | Rated since: Fri Jun 3 23:49:22 2011

16:54:15 Rassah: Hey bitcoinpete

16:54:16 ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg

16:54:19 mircea_popescu: ;;rate Rassah 1 Old timer.

16:54:21 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Rassah has been recorded.

16:54:41 mircea_popescu: Rassah you can self voice, pm assbot !up if id'd with gribble

16:54:55 bitcoinpete: Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."

16:55:30 Rassah: yes. I'm one of the 7 or so treasurers...

16:56:35 ThickAsThieves: Leprechauns exist!

16:57:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.grimoireassemblyforge.com/dudebro2/site/ << apparently this is going to be a scroller.

16:57:24 assbot: Dudebro II

16:57:54 ThickAsThieves: http://imgur.com/a/Yhgvm

16:57:54 assbot: Bitcoin Graphics - Imgur

16:58:47 rithm: 7 treasurers!

16:59:44 Rassah: Woah. I haven't authenticated in over a year. Shows how often I visit IRC :p

17:01:19 ThickAsThieves: "Realcoin, therefore, represents an opportunity to speculate with fiat currency for the first time. If you have reason to believe its price will move for or against a digital currency on the market, now you can take advantage of that. "

17:01:53 fluffypony: ugh gross

17:02:44 ThickAsThieves: guys it will be so awesome to be able to speculate on digital currency!

17:02:47 Rassah: Although I support Realcoin, that statement is a bit... reduntant? Useless? Price moves for or against relative to something else, so instead of using Realcoin, you can just as easily use that something else...

17:03:06 ThickAsThieves: why do you support it?

17:03:17 ThickAsThieves: what does it really bring to the table?

17:03:22 mircea_popescu: Rassah the statement is typical of a desperate play for relevancy coming out of the sort of idiots that imagine claims matter.

17:03:22 ThickAsThieves: a ripple alternative?

17:03:26 fluffypony: nothing

17:04:03 Rassah: A dollar that trades directly on the bitcoin blockchain, allowing for atomic exchanges between bicoin and dollar-value asset

17:04:28 Rassah: I have doubts that banks and US reglators will allow it to happen though... but Brock does have some influence

17:04:34 ThickAsThieves: you mean exchange like already happen on Bitstamp etc?

17:04:37 ThickAsThieves: happens

17:04:54 Rassah: No, I mean exchage that happens on #bitcoin-otc, but without need for escrow

17:04:58 ThickAsThieves: i put dollars in, i get bitstampdollars

17:05:17 ThickAsThieves: oh so you mean launderable dollars?

17:05:21 mircea_popescu: Rassah what do you mean "without the need for escrow" lol.

17:06:25 Rassah: #bitcoin-otc: you send a promise of dollars, the seller escrows bitcoins. Dollars take time to get to the seller. Once they do, escrow releases coins to the buyer.

17:06:49 ThickAsThieves: so with escrow

17:07:08 Rassah: Realcoin: you agree to a trade with a bicoin sellet. You create a ransaction that trades one of the other. The trade is signed and happens at the same time

17:07:09 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

17:07:21 mircea_popescu: it's nonsense on a fucking stick, bitcoin and fiat still have different hardness.

17:07:23 Rassah: sorry about missing keys and typos.

17:07:29 mircea_popescu: i can clawback any usd anywhere by simply sueing.

17:07:40 mircea_popescu: this is why people don't btc to paypal directly, and haven't, since 2011.

17:07:51 Rassah: How can you clawback digital currency?

17:08:10 mircea_popescu: the fact that B. Fucktard P. wasn't here in 2011, because he was too busy blowing 13year olds in back alleys

17:08:18 mircea_popescu: doesn't mean he's excused from reading the 2011 logs.

17:08:23 mircea_popescu: on the contrary : he has to read them twice.

17:08:47 mircea_popescu: Rassah fiat does not become "digital currency" just because you'd like it to.

17:08:50 ThickAsThieves: the logs are like chapters of the book they get punished to read in Anathem

17:09:01 Rassah: I'm assuming that cryptocurrency that exists on Mastercin is transfered with private key signatures, and is permanent and complete upon transfer, same as every other cryptocurrency. No chargebacks

17:09:05 ThickAsThieves: they gave you 6 chapters!?

17:09:12 mircea_popescu: Rassah how do i get my actual dollars ?

17:09:13 ThickAsThieves: :)

17:10:22 Rassah: According to Brock, initially trough his own bank/exchange, and hopefully eventually through whatever banks support his system. So maybe yours. Since banks make money by charging fees to transfer money around, it may be difficult to convince them to add a system that lets them transfer their own dollars for little to no fee though

17:10:32 ThickAsThieves: the only difference between realcoin and bitstampdollar is you dont have to use bitstamp to trade it, but you still need realcoin to render those dollars eventually

17:10:59 mircea_popescu: Rassah so i sue his "bank/exchange", have its accounts locked.

17:11:02 Rassah: There's is another difference. Bitstant desn't have the resources, or even interest, in getting their Bitstamp dollars used by other banks

17:11:04 mircea_popescu: what happened to the "escrow" now ?

17:11:35 Rassah: *Bitstamp... >.<

17:11:56 ThickAsThieves: but what bank would ever want bitstampdollars?

17:11:57 Rassah: So, has it been long settled that we don't need a distributed exchange? I missed that memo...

17:12:11 mircea_popescu: Rassah you've missed a lot of things.

17:12:12 nubbins`: i like it when i tell people their artwork isn't big enough, and they just scale it up in photoshop

17:12:13 Rassah: ThickAsThieves: That's kind of my point too

17:12:23 danielpbarron: realcoin is not relevant in a post-fiat world; why even waste time on such a notion that only solves the "problem" of mass adoption

17:13:05 Rassah: From the way he described it, I think he only wants it to be a temporary stepping stone to make USD to BTC transition easer, and doesn't expect it to last very long

17:13:14 danielpbarron: if I think BTC is about to go down, I have local associates who would probably buy it off me today

17:13:29 ThickAsThieves: nubbins` http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/resize8/ I remember back in like 2001 using this to battle such idiocy

17:13:30 assbot: Perfect Resize 8 - onOne Software

17:13:38 ThickAsThieves: it took forever to process!

17:13:47 ThickAsThieves: uses fractals

17:13:53 Rassah: Mircea, care to fill me in on other thins I've missed? The "we don't need distributed xchanges ay more" is surprising considering MtGox died just 6 months ago, and BTC-e is questionable

17:13:57 danielpbarron: Rassah, right; my point exactly.. you can't force Bitcoin addoption; the common man will use Bitcoin when he is FORCED TO by the new economic reality

17:14:33 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla can bitbet search also have order by weight added ?

17:14:33 ThickAsThieves: rassah, you can't remove trust from the sytem, you can only move it to where you prefer

17:15:16 mircea_popescu: Rassah well, i linked you to the log. thing is, this right here is the hot core of btc. you will have to simply read the logs.

17:15:25 Rassah: ThickAsThieves: Trust in large regulated and audited body, supported by and in partnership with numerous banks > trust in some anonymous stranger on the internet

17:15:34 mircea_popescu: that'd be wrong, actually.

17:15:47 mircea_popescu: trust in government < any alternative < people < otc people.

17:16:08 Rassah: that's true too

17:16:20 mircea_popescu: there can't be a too in there.

17:16:25 mircea_popescu: they're contradictory.

17:16:46 mircea_popescu: the large audited regulated body === government.

17:17:16 Rassah: otc with 50+ ratings V.S. bank with licenses and audits? (http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=pirateat40)

17:17:30 princessnell: Rassah, this might help: http://theumlaut.com/2014/06/10/bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains/

17:17:30 assbot: Bitcoin Is Great, But It Won’t Fix Our Monkey Brains | The mlaut

17:18:01 Rassah: I would trust an established banking institution more than an OTC trader with 2 or 3 ratings. I would trust an established OTC trader more than a bank

17:18:18 Rassah: it's not black and wite

17:19:12 mircea_popescu: this simply shows you're not well connected, and so mcdonalds level services (ie, bare minimum) are the best you see yourself aspiring to.

17:19:35 mircea_popescu: had you spend the past year or w/e cultivating irc, instead of wasting time on forums/skype/etc, you'd be in the position of lolling at the notion of a fiat bank.

17:20:09 Rassah: I'm pretty well connected. Just not on IRC :)

17:20:20 mircea_popescu: then you're not well connected.

17:20:23 Rassah: Most of the people I'm connected with don't have time for it.

17:20:36 mircea_popescu: this is just another way of saying they don't matter, you're aware.

17:20:40 Rassah: princessnell: love your nick btw

17:20:44 danielpbarron: Rassah, i think this is relevant http://fraudsters.com/2012/fact-of-the-matter-is-the-infrastructure-was-not-ready/

17:20:46 assbot: Fact of the matter is, the infrastructure was not ready pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

17:20:47 ThickAsThieves: or that they are poor

17:21:22 Rassah: Oh. You're all millionaires here?...

17:21:27 mircea_popescu: nope.

17:21:30 mircea_popescu: some are billionaires.

17:21:36 mircea_popescu: and we also got some camhos.

17:22:00 *: danielpbarron is one of the elite few with > 1 BTC

17:23:30 ThickAsThieves: mycelium is doing well though, right?

17:23:44 mircea_popescu: i can't recall what that does.

17:23:52 ThickAsThieves: altwallet

17:23:54 ThickAsThieves: well

17:23:57 ThickAsThieves: bitcoin wallet

17:23:57 mircea_popescu: o.

17:23:59 ThickAsThieves: but yknow

17:24:21 ThickAsThieves: they did a trippy promo vid too

17:24:31 mircea_popescu: Rassah so whats the uvp there, convenience or something ?

17:24:39 mircea_popescu: !up chetty

17:24:45 ThickAsThieves: "We help people and companies

17:24:45 ThickAsThieves: to store, transfer and exchange value.

17:24:45 ThickAsThieves: Seamlessly, without numerous middlemen cutting off a big chunk

17:24:45 ThickAsThieves: of our profits and savings. It's our money, let's keep it simple."

17:24:45 Rassah: uvp?

17:24:49 ThickAsThieves: says mycelium

17:24:54 chetty: hey, ty MP

17:25:16 ThickAsThieves: Bitcoincard, wasnt that a Gox thing?

17:25:20 ThickAsThieves: https://mycelium.com/

17:25:20 assbot: Home :: Mycelium

17:25:23 Rassah: Not at all

17:25:42 chetty: <Rassah> Oh. You're all millionaires here?... whats a millionaire? why is stuff being measured in dollars?

17:25:42 mircea_popescu: Rassah unique value proposition.

17:25:47 ThickAsThieves: i recall them having a credit card gizmo with buttons on it

17:25:52 ThickAsThieves: maybe it was justa 2fa

17:26:11 Rassah: Bitcoincard started as a mesh network based idea for a text messaging device. Then the gy who was developing it found out that it's perfect for a bitcoin wallet, ad switched directions, forming Mycelium

17:26:11 ThickAsThieves: chetty indeed!

17:26:13 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves o you actually tested this ?

17:26:31 ThickAsThieves: tested mycelium? i think i installed it somewhere

17:26:37 ThickAsThieves: havent really used it tho

17:26:44 Rassah: What's the UVP of what? Mycelium wallet?

17:26:59 mircea_popescu: Rassah so it's a half-implementation of bitcoin-qt, doing only the wallet part ?

17:27:21 ThickAsThieves: is bitcoincard shipped?

17:27:38 Rassah: Bitcoincard is credit card sized device, cheap, flexible, and uses 300meter range radio for communication

17:27:47 ThickAsThieves: https://mycelium.com/assets/img/bitcoincard.jpg

17:27:49 Rassah: No, we just got the prototypes in the office a few weeks ago

17:28:09 ThickAsThieves: asciilifeform will hack it for you

17:28:46 Rassah: First version of Bitcincard will just be a hardware wallet. Later version, once we get newer battery technology implemented (I think carbon?) it will do full mesh networking, meaning you'll be able to use Bitcoin without need for inernet, and if charged with solar, infrastructue of any kind

17:28:52 ThickAsThieves: though he may be bogged down shipping cardano

17:29:33 ThickAsThieves: mesh over what network?

17:29:35 mircea_popescu: well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.

17:29:46 Rassah: mesh over it's own radio

17:29:51 mircea_popescu: uh.

17:29:58 mircea_popescu: no bluetooth with other devices around ?

17:30:17 Rassah: No. Possibly RFID to send signed transactions out of the device

17:30:31 mircea_popescu: that'll need a lot of saturation to be usable.

17:30:56 Rassah: Keep in mind, this thing, before it's laminated, is as thin as a piece of paper. Battery included. (and all flexible, including the display). Not much room or power for bluetoth

17:31:02 Rassah: yes, it will

17:31:03 ThickAsThieves: well considering we cant even mesh wifi

17:31:07 ThickAsThieves: ...

17:32:02 Rassah: I beieve the idea is to get merchants to use a "terminal" or sorts to use our cards with, which will provide some of the mesh. Once the cards are done, we'll probably also sell solar powered radio repeaters, with no screens or walet, which should make those dirt cheap too. Then you just glue them to tops of things

17:32:41 Rassah: For now the main product is the Android Wallet though. And that Entropy thing we're finishing up

17:33:27 ThickAsThieves: are you one of the angel-invested startups?

17:34:16 Rassah: What? How so?

17:34:24 Rassah: Oh

17:34:44 ThickAsThieves: i just mean how lots of bitcoin biz are getting early investors and making coindesk about it

17:34:57 Rassah: No, the owner who came up with the Bitcoincard idea, and started Mycelium for bitcoin stuff, is some super-rich Russian dude

17:35:09 ThickAsThieves: cool, that war tanks guys?

17:35:21 Rassah: He's part investor in http://www.neftvodka.com/neftvodka/en/

17:35:21 assbot: This website is exclusively for people over 18 years of age. | NEFT Vodka

17:35:38 ThickAsThieves: this is what i was thinking of http://na.wargaming.net/

17:35:38 assbot: Wargaming.net

17:36:05 Rassah: No, I'm prettu syre not

17:36:12 ThickAsThieves: vodka in a barrel is acceptable

17:36:22 Rassah: Steel oil drum

17:36:45 ThickAsThieves: neat

17:37:16 Rassah: We are raising money for Entropy through Indiegogo because this was an idea that our devs came up with, and wanted to get it done regardless of our owner's financial input.

17:37:35 Rassah: He thinks if it won't make him a million ad get him a fancy sports car, it's not worth bothering with

17:37:35 ThickAsThieves: so he liked the idea, but not enough to fund it?

17:37:53 ThickAsThieves: heh

17:37:56 Rassah: but we think the idea is neat, chea, and worthwhile

17:38:01 Rassah: *cheap

17:38:28 ThickAsThieves: itll at least make reddit happy

17:38:29 mircea_popescu: <Rassah> yes, it will << to understand each other, we're talking millions of units in users hands before the 1st unit shipped becomes usable.

17:38:36 mircea_popescu: this means millions of units shipped the same day, launch day.

17:38:45 mircea_popescu: this is the sort of thing a megacorp a la sony can still botch.

17:39:42 Rassah: <Rassah> yes, it will is reply to <mircea_popescu> well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.

17:40:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves rassah is chiefly famous for having been an early adopter, then having bought bitcoin out of some sort of a retirement fund w/o the so's permission, right before the climb to 8 or something like that. then sold out and well, one of the first people to pay their mortgage "because bitcoin".

17:40:23 Rassah: Mesh network wallet, whether it is made my us or someone else, will be very useful, especally in places where electricity and internet/cell phone is spotty or unreliable (most of the world?)

17:40:50 Rassah: Mircea, absolutely not. That's not me

17:40:58 ThickAsThieves: mp thx for background

17:41:04 ThickAsThieves: oh

17:41:04 ThickAsThieves: hehe

17:41:35 ThickAsThieves: Rassah you can be like Tesla and make a big deal, say you are open-sourcing your mesh network tech

17:42:04 ThickAsThieves: let any device on the standard

17:42:17 ThickAsThieves: then you get your mesh

17:42:23 mircea_popescu: Rassah what, srsly ?

17:42:45 ThickAsThieves: make it talk to phones and such

17:42:49 ThickAsThieves: like mp said

17:44:02 Rassah: I was an early adopter, I bought bicoin usin my OWN retirement funds (i.e. money slated to go to IRA and savings every week ended up going into Bitcoin). Then I borrowed some more money from our HELOC to buy a $30k BLF miner, I never preordered, waiting for them to ship, by February 2013 they still didn't ship, so I sold those bitcins, paid off the HELOC, and bought this http://imgur.com/ZGjrh4e instead. I bought at $8, and sold

17:44:02 assbot: Bitcoin Prius - Imgur

17:44:02 Rassah: at $22, thinking "bubble." I was wrong on that, but my car had 250,000+ miles on it and was almost dead, so *shrug*. I have never sold out any of my other coins. As far as anyone knows, I have lost them all in a boating accident, or when I accidentally dropped my USB stick into an airplane toilet and flushed it out over the Atlantic

17:44:22 rithm: so mpex had a raid controller failure

17:44:24 Rassah: Paying my mortgage off with bitcoin would be very stupid, because mortgage rate is 4%, and bitcoin rate is ThroughTheMoon%

17:44:43 rithm: someone linked me to the blog and i read paranoia and/or a failed raid controller

17:45:03 rithm: maybe i skimmed

17:45:13 mircea_popescu: Rassah ah ok.

17:45:17 Rassah: And, btw, I was buying when it was $6, then $16, then $22, and then continued bying all the wa from $30 to $2.50, because I understood and believed in the syste

17:45:33 rithm: hi rassah

17:45:39 jcpham: i hide

17:45:45 Rassah: hi rithm

17:45:54 mircea_popescu: so how much btc was the prius ?

17:45:58 Rassah: hi jcpham

17:46:20 Rassah: Conveniently, the Prius was *exactly* 1,000BTC. Makes it easy to calculate it's present BTC value

17:46:24 mircea_popescu: rithm both, really.

17:46:41 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla see ? he got a 1k btc prius. beats your golf cart.

17:46:43 pankkake: eheh, twice kakobrekla's car!

17:46:54 Rassah: btw, the only people here I know are Mircea...

17:46:54 rithm: so clandestine three-letter agencies dumping the firewire, supermagnets, and a failed raid controller

17:46:55 danielpbarron: damn that's an expensive way to look like you care about the environment

17:47:14 mircea_popescu: lol

17:47:22 Rassah: I don't give a shit about the environment. I bought it to save money

17:47:27 kakobrekla: yes im a cheap bastard.

17:47:30 Rassah: which it does wonderfully

17:47:31 mircea_popescu: coulda bought 3 teslas, duct tape them together and just go everywhere and snub people

17:47:37 ThickAsThieves: i just got a prius as a hand-me-down

17:47:38 mircea_popescu: "see i r care about environment 3x more than you do"

17:47:58 rithm: oh are we having the conversation about "how x could be different if only i"

17:48:23 mircea_popescu: rithm less than a house still.

17:48:27 danielpbarron: i don't think a 1`000 BTC prius can ever get a ROI

17:48:39 rithm: that's time. anything you think you might have lost in currency conversion, it's really just time

17:48:51 rithm: if the 1000 btc were free?

17:48:54 ThickAsThieves: maybe he uses the money he saves on gas to buy more bitcoins

17:48:56 mircea_popescu: (for the newfags, this "less than a house" thing is a reference to a 2012 discussion re jcpham's investment in pirate. he had less thna a house, more than a car there)

17:49:19 Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too

17:49:32 rithm: $7500 principal plus whatever zny interest pirate math was owed

17:49:39 rithm: mp speaks the truth

17:49:43 rithm: *zany

17:49:45 mircea_popescu: rithm so like... 498574389759347 btc ?

17:49:52 rithm: go away

17:50:06 mircea_popescu: i go away next week 7% more ?

17:50:12 kakobrekla: Rassah should have got a golf.

17:50:12 rithm: i'd have to dig up screenshots

17:50:21 rithm: 1600btc and change

17:50:25 rithm: give or take

17:50:31 mircea_popescu: rithm right. plus interest.... 45096450968045 btc

17:50:32 Rassah: Plus I like driving a cell phone on wheels :D

17:50:44 rithm: it was a row in some mysql databse

17:50:48 rithm: it could be anything

17:50:55 rithm: it was not mine though

17:51:11 mircea_popescu: Rassah i just did the math, i spent more on camhos this month than your ho nda took every 5-6.

17:51:14 kakobrekla: is thats why you hide these days?

17:51:32 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i think he just wants to sing these days.,

17:51:33 rithm: i like rithm more

17:51:35 Rassah: Oh, also got a 1,500 Watt inverter for it that can power quite a bit of my house. I can power that thing for about a week on a 10 gallon tank of gas. Conveient for camping, power outages, or GTOFing

17:51:52 rithm: i delightfully detached from that now

17:51:57 rithm: that was years ago

17:52:02 rithm: why are we bringing up old shit

17:52:11 rithm: Trendon stole my time from me

17:52:11 mircea_popescu: Rassah 1.5 watt inverter is kinda low neh ? cause of inductive capacity, you can't really run a fridge ron it

17:52:12 Rassah: Mircea, you are screwing up one of my bitcoin defences

17:52:18 rithm: and he's broke and he can't pay it back

17:52:41 kakobrekla: i got 3kw for 500bux a couple of months ago

17:52:52 Rassah: Trolls claim bitcoin is used for childporn, I point out that that's not true because no one pays for porn any more. Yet you do

17:53:08 mircea_popescu: Rassah it's moar complex than that.

17:53:12 mircea_popescu: i just buy souls.

17:53:17 ThickAsThieves: theyre in love

17:53:20 pankkake: of course people pay for porn

17:53:24 rithm: well childporn is secret and hides

17:53:28 rithm: from what i hear

17:53:30 Rassah: Not really

17:53:34 Rassah: from what I hear

17:53:48 mircea_popescu: princessnell http://fraudsters.com/2014/i-wasnt-going-to-actually-post-this-but/

17:53:49 assbot: I wasn’t going to actually post this, but… pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

17:53:51 rithm: xvideos and pornhub have a terrible selection based on the search i just did for childporn

17:53:57 Rassah: Being on a tor site doesn't eally mea hiding, does it?

17:54:01 danielpbarron: there is some creep in -otc that pays for a subscription to beastiality porn or something

17:54:02 mircea_popescu: rithm what is it, mostly brazil team ?

17:54:08 rithm: lololol

17:54:09 Rassah: *realy

17:54:23 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron is that the one with feminists ?

17:54:41 chetty: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10968316/Germanys-plan-to-take-on-NSA-Block-eavesdroppers-with-classical-music-and-use-typewriters.html

17:54:41 assbot: Germany's plan to take on NSA: Block eavesdroppers with classical music, and use typewriters - Telegraph

17:54:48 Rassah: hmm... I wonder what it would take for LocalTrader to compete with bitcoin-otc?...

17:54:59 pankkake: danielpbarron: well custom or niche porn is definitely something people will always pay for

17:55:02 danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, idk; who is that? I'm talking about Wolf`

17:55:13 pankkake: but still, it's not like pro porn production is slowing down, is it?

17:55:14 mircea_popescu: the people backing otc to move there. which won't happen really, because people don't move unless the platform fucks up majorily.

17:55:15 rithm: yeah that dude is fubar

17:55:18 rithm: `Wolf

17:55:23 Rassah: chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal

17:55:32 mircea_popescu: pankkake it's not, mostly because the girls like to do it, the photogs like to do it, everyone likes to do it.

17:55:40 mircea_popescu: but it's not really making money anymore.

17:55:51 mircea_popescu: <Rassah> chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal << WORD.

17:56:19 rithm: the nicer your camera is, the quicker the clothes come off, but ymmv

17:56:24 penguirker: New blog post: http://fraudsters.com/2014/i-wasnt-going-to-actually-post-this-but/

17:56:32 pankkake: it makes enough

17:56:39 pankkake: and of course they like to do it

17:56:44 mircea_popescu: yeah well, shoe shining makes enough.

17:57:26 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/my-2-000-btc-is-all-gone.84054/ << o look, intel found it.

17:57:27 assbot: My 2,000 BTC is all gone :( | Bitcointa.lk

17:59:52 ThickAsThieves: nice

18:00:25 pankkake: there was (still is?) a porn kickstarter, but most of the things there were boring. the only one I voted for didn't go to funding stage

18:00:33 ThickAsThieves: mp doesnt think cats can love now, when was the last time you were hugged?

18:00:58 mircea_popescu: ironically i just peeled out of a hug to read this.

18:01:18 ThickAsThieves: excellent

18:01:35 mircea_popescu: this internet psychology thing may have some limitations.

18:02:03 mircea_popescu: but anyway. ever seen a cat sitting on its master's grave ?

18:03:20 ThickAsThieves: not sure thats the measure of ability to love

18:03:26 pankkake: cats are psychopats

18:03:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what measure you'd propose ?

18:04:56 ThickAsThieves: kinda loaded question i think

18:05:25 mircea_popescu: o.O

18:05:27 ThickAsThieves: i suppose you could chemically test it

18:05:41 mircea_popescu: it can't be a loaded question. it gets immunity, because it's the strict followup to your protest.

18:06:08 ThickAsThieves: my protest is that you require notable mourning

18:06:17 ThickAsThieves: which i'm not sure is always required for love

18:06:39 ThickAsThieves: and i'm also pretty sure cats will mourn for their own

18:09:19 Rassah: <mircea_popescu> Ah, forgot about that one. Sorry, I was trolling the bitcoin trolls, and explaining things to any alphabet soup agencies that may be listening.

18:10:17 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves does your position reduce to "cats love you too but you'll never know ?" cause i could argue the same of dildos.

18:10:44 Rassah: Oh, no wait. The 2,000 btc that was all gone was the BTC that went to pay for my Prius and pay off the HELOC. Sorry, got confused

18:11:03 Rassah: but I purposefully worded it in the OP as if I had lost it all

18:11:31 kakobrekla: to throw off the FBI.

18:11:36 Rassah: Still reading "bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains". Long ass article with lots of sie-links...

18:11:56 ThickAsThieves: no, more that cats express love in more limited way than humans do

18:12:32 ThickAsThieves: loved as a provider or protector or alpha etc

18:12:42 princessnell: mircea_popescu re: blog. US rebellion day was especially bleak this year. so many patriots in love with a system that despises and exploits them. defending the ghouls that have consumed and spit out their culture.

18:12:48 mircea_popescu: Rassah the author is this smart cookie.

18:12:59 princessnell: how do you do

18:13:15 Rassah: Not Andrea Castillo?

18:13:20 mircea_popescu: yeah.

18:13:24 pankkake: so gold diggers are in love?

18:13:35 mircea_popescu: pankkake in a more limited way than sluts.

18:13:41 ThickAsThieves: lol

18:14:03 pankkake: sluts love the/your dick, at least

18:14:38 ThickAsThieves: i think calling a cat a goldigger might be a tad off the mark

18:14:52 mircea_popescu: yeah, they don't really like to have to dig.

18:14:58 pankkake: mind you, I really like cats, and I wish I could have one

18:15:06 danielpbarron: http://i.imgur.com/q0ELQit.png

18:18:43 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, crazy software. probably not as slow these days with the abundance of cheap ram

18:19:00 nubbins`: danielpbarron, it only takes 1btc to be elite these days? what the fuck does that make the rest of us?

18:20:29 nubbins`: also, i may have a lead on a poster job for a music festival ghostface killah is playing at

18:20:31 Rassah: So what kind of important, well connected, people who matter hang out on here?

18:20:37 nubbins`: trying not to get too excited ;0

18:20:42 danielpbarron: there can only ever be 21 million of such individuals; that's pretty elite vs 7 billion total population

18:21:17 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron nubbins` is canadian, he has no representation of people density.

18:21:29 Rassah: whom, if I had met, I'd be laughing at the notion of a fiat bank? (mind you, I hang out wth the likes of Kody Wilson and Amir Taki, too)

18:21:42 danielpbarron: ew

18:22:04 Rassah: I'm just wondering what the difference is between this IRC, and the Reddit/Skype/etc that's supposedly worse

18:22:26 mircea_popescu: Rassah well, here's a point : reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing.

18:22:40 mircea_popescu: while everyone's tried to make altcoins and failed ever since forever.

18:22:41 Rassah: otc?

18:22:45 mircea_popescu: atc.

18:22:57 Rassah: I'm wondering what thing atc is

18:23:00 pankkake: why would you consider Altcoin a success?

18:23:33 mircea_popescu: pankkake because its price graph looks exactly opposite of doge&the rest of the scamfarm ?

18:23:40 Rassah: atc? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Touch_of_Class_(band)

18:23:40 assbot: A Touch of Class (band) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

18:23:59 pankkake: Anus Then Cunt

18:24:07 mircea_popescu: Rassah https://bitcointa.lk/threads/sha256-altcoin.250774/page-22

18:24:07 assbot: [SHA256] Altcoin | Page 22 | Bitcointa.lk

18:24:38 pankkake: atc's market cap is pretty small, there's no real over-valuation I suppose

18:25:08 mircea_popescu: you say this as if it were a bad thing.

18:25:21 pankkake: no, it's a good thing, but I wondered if you thought so too

18:25:24 kakobrekla: being dead is better than pretending of being alive :)

18:25:35 mircea_popescu: pankkake course i do.

18:25:42 pankkake: I don't think any altcoin should have a market cap >$10,000 or so

18:25:48 pankkake: well that clears something up

18:25:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla btw, i saw coffee and ciggarettes coupla days back. pretty good actually.

18:25:59 kakobrekla: is not bad.

18:26:17 mircea_popescu: pankkake twas clear tho, i had said so before, and dropped buncha other hints around it.

18:26:41 Rassah: I'm not sure if Altcoin is a joke or serious, reading is description...

18:26:46 Rassah: It sounds sarcastic

18:26:49 kakobrekla: serious joke.

18:27:15 ThickAsThieves: serious as a moustache

18:27:54 pankkake: Rassah: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-bernankoin-the-coin-not-evil-according-to-paul-krugman-dl-winqt-v1-3-now.213856/

18:27:55 assbot: [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW | Bitcointa.lk

18:27:59 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lulz of all time : chick put a magic marker winking eye next to her nipple and moustaches on both tits. not said a word.

18:28:03 Rassah: So I think "reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing" should have been " reddit/skype/etc don't even know atc is a thing."

18:28:32 nubbins`: mircea_popescu did you see the Iggy Pop / Tom Waits bit in c&c?

18:28:37 mircea_popescu: Rassah there's a lot teh soft cloud of derps circling btc don't know about.

18:28:42 mircea_popescu: nubbins` yup

18:28:45 nubbins`: rich stuff

18:29:02 nubbins`: "...actually, just call me iggy" "so Jim..."

18:29:14 mircea_popescu: !up jdoubleu

18:29:17 mircea_popescu: they suck at acting, too.

18:29:22 Rassah: So, I'm still confused I guess

18:29:32 nubbins`: waits is actually a pretty good actor. they were both hamming it up in that scene

18:29:54 nubbins`: he played the devil in that Dr Parnassus movie

18:29:59 Rassah: By the way, anyone going to be in Chicago this weekend?

18:30:00 ThickAsThieves: rassah wants to know why any of us really matter

18:30:15 nubbins`: i really matter because i'm moderately well-connected in the wot

18:30:19 Rassah: <ThickAsThieves> No I DOn't

18:30:31 ThickAsThieves: sry

18:30:38 nubbins`: now, tbh, this only matters for some definitions of "matter"

18:30:39 ThickAsThieves: i'm confused about what you are confused about then

18:30:51 mircea_popescu: Rassah you got autocomplete in your client right ?

18:30:54 Rassah: I want to know why Mircea claimed that people here are important, and people outside of here are not

18:31:06 Rassah: Mircea: I don't know

18:31:20 mircea_popescu: a, that's easy. because mircea is a rich bastard, and that means he can claim anything he fucking feels like, then make it so.

18:31:28 mircea_popescu: try it : type mir hit tab, see what happens.

18:31:42 Rassah: Specifically, what types of connections that you can make here, and why are they better than connection on Reddit/Skype/etc

18:31:43 ThickAsThieves: miragine war

18:31:55 Rassah: mir

18:32:03 mircea_popescu: well that didn't work.

18:32:08 Rassah: n s

18:32:10 nubbins`: he said tab, not enter

18:32:14 ThickAsThieves: i did!

18:32:15 Rassah: mircea_popescu: oh

18:32:24 *: nubbins` golf claps

18:32:25 mircea_popescu: tab is like enter...

18:32:28 Rassah: I was looking for any key

18:32:31 ThickAsThieves: there are connections on reddit?

18:32:49 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves taleb is on reddit.

18:32:49 Rassah: I have made a few, yes

18:32:53 nubbins`: it's not dissimilar to enter

18:32:55 princessnell: Rassah you'll get it when you keep coming back

18:33:03 mircea_popescu: btw, anyone got that saffron chick's youtube at the ready ?

18:33:17 nubbins`: wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for?

18:33:22 ThickAsThieves: lol

18:33:27 Rassah: But will I ever see any of you in real life? Like, speaking of which, is anyone here going to Chicago?

18:33:32 mircea_popescu: nubbins` nope :( he revenge-joined reddit instead.

18:33:35 nubbins`: bastard

18:33:41 mircea_popescu: hm whatr was it

18:33:43 mircea_popescu: $conference

18:33:45 nubbins`: gotta admit, i had to stop watching it

18:33:46 empyex: mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 9 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 2.11806614 BTC (Details: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )

18:33:48 assbot: The conference, third edition pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

18:33:49 ThickAsThieves: rassah, i go to the amsterdam conferences, otherwise we go to mp's conference

18:34:10 nubbins`: hey, i'll be in amsterdam soon

18:34:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the funny thing is... you promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled. then fluffypony went to some derpference, promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled.

18:34:19 Rassah: I was at the Amsterdam one on September

18:34:26 mircea_popescu: im starting to think like there's no content to be had or something

18:34:41 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I did Twitter instead of liveblog because of lack of stuff to talk about live

18:34:43 ThickAsThieves: i have like 20 draft articles

18:34:49 ThickAsThieves: just hooked on trading lately

18:35:08 mircea_popescu: fluffypony well yeah but sadly i killed andreas, so... i got nuttin'.

18:35:14 fluffypony: lol

18:35:22 Rassah: ThickAsThieves: If Amsterdam, do you know Moe Levin?

18:36:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` srsly, why are they so cringe-y ?

18:36:01 ThickAsThieves: i do not know him personally

18:36:09 ThickAsThieves: i know who you mena though

18:36:46 nubbins`: mp i'm not sure, i guess generally people with a lack of social skills both end up cringey and spending a lot of time at the computer

18:36:54 nubbins`: add tits, and voila

18:36:59 nubbins`: cringey camgirls

18:37:17 nubbins`: seriously, the fifth word out of her mouth was "fantastical"

18:37:25 nubbins`: and she was talking about an intelligent person's brain

18:37:37 Rassah: ThickAsThieves: Damn. I'm wondering if the tightly woven net of connections here is in any way linked with the tightly woven net of connections I am involved with outside of here...

18:37:38 pankkake: shorter vids would have been better I think

18:37:44 mircea_popescu: Rassah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yrlh3E_qu4 << there. how does htis look to you ?

18:37:44 assbot: Mission: #bitcoin-assets - YouTube

18:37:47 pankkake: as there wasn't much to say, so it ends up being weird

18:37:49 ThickAsThieves: Rassah, not by me

18:38:13 mircea_popescu: pankkake i did take it from 5 to 3. how short!

18:38:19 ThickAsThieves: i probly annoyed people you know at one time or another, but im not connected to em

18:38:22 mircea_popescu: but maybe we should actually write scripts for the girls.

18:38:25 Rassah: mircea_popescu: finally finished your article. Nothing I disagree with. Much of that is discussed in private by some of the attendees, who otherwise put on a faux public face

18:38:49 mircea_popescu: Rassah faux public faces eh ? myeah.

18:39:19 Rassah: you don't tak about assassination market based disincentives in public, no

18:39:40 mircea_popescu: i talk about whatever the fuck i happen to feel like talking, why the hell not.

18:39:59 ThickAsThieves: thats why reddit doesnt adore you

18:40:13 Rassah: Some people are public company representatives that still rely on sales and not making politicians freak the fuck out :)

18:40:26 mircea_popescu: yes. and their companies added together are pretty much almost equal mpex.

18:40:41 mircea_popescu: which apparently doesn't even need to be online.

18:40:46 pankkake: I think being right when they are wrong is what's annoys them

18:40:50 Rassah: Which is fun to do if you aleady don' give a fuck about things, but is something o keep in check if public work is still to be done

18:41:13 pankkake: reddit made it ok to hide things that hurt your feelings

18:41:38 mircea_popescu: pankkake the theory i was happy with held that they worship the holders of trappings of power. ie, only the powerless.

18:41:43 Rassah: By he way, wat does mpex do/make? I just realized I never really looked into that... I guess I should

18:41:45 mircea_popescu: everyone else is scarydangerous.

18:42:06 mircea_popescu: Rassah makes a few hundred to a few ks a month, valued a few 100ks to a mil.

18:42:08 fluffypony: well at the moment mpex is the king of being offline :-P

18:42:24 pankkake: when it's online, it trades itself

18:42:35 fluffypony: and the owner keeps getting extradited from country to country

18:42:40 fluffypony: when he's not threatening to kill religious leaders

18:42:45 Rassah: Oh, yeah, an exchange. Sorry, forgot

18:43:11 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i wonder when the first president rape occurs. now that women can be presidents.

18:43:11 Rassah: The longest running exchange that has not collapsed like every single other asset exchange has

18:44:40 Rassah: It's been a while since I have been in the anals of bitcointalk, so I forgot. Please fogive me Mircea

18:44:53 mircea_popescu: lol wait, what'd you do ?

18:45:26 ThickAsThieves: sounds like he got rich buying bitcoins and now makes bitcoin products for reddit

18:45:29 Rassah: I forgot what MPEx was

18:45:42 mircea_popescu: lol not like it's a crime

18:46:17 Rassah: mircea_popescu: btw, ironically, I thinkyou and Brock Pierce of Realcoin would get along well together...

18:46:38 fluffypony: Rassah: mircea_popescu isn't into little boys

18:46:42 fluffypony: so I don't think that's a good match

18:46:55 ThickAsThieves: what was the quote?

18:46:55 Rassah: neither is Brock, so that's not what I meant

18:47:00 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i'm very tolerant tho.

18:47:09 ThickAsThieves: theyre like children, you wanna love them all

18:47:26 mircea_popescu: Rassah well so what did you mean ?

18:48:20 pankkake: isn't realcoin the stupidest thing ever?

18:48:25 benkay: <nubbins`> wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for? // 30 second doses were all i could handle

18:48:48 Rassah: Brock is not as insultingly direct as you, but the best way to describe him is chaos. He has a shitton of money, and his goal in life is to create as much chaos and clusterfuck as possible using that money. Including investing in things that compete directly against his own companies and prior investments.

18:49:18 ThickAsThieves: so he also needs a hug

18:49:36 Rassah: That's partially why Realcoin, too. Get the pot stirring, maybe someone will get upset and make something better, maybe not, likely it won't go anywhere (he doesn't think it will last may years), but as long as he had fun, he does't give a shit

18:49:43 mircea_popescu: benkay why was it cringe-y ?

18:49:59 pankkake: if you want to transfer USDs tied to a counterparty, at least use Ripple where you can have more than one central counterparty

18:50:01 benkay: poor improvisation.

18:50:04 Rassah: He's basically another stpid-rich guy who likes to fuck with things

18:50:04 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you and your hugs. next time i see you ima make everyone hug you.

18:50:21 ThickAsThieves: no i'll melt!

18:50:22 benkay: and if scripted, godawful scripting.

18:50:25 Rassah: pankkake: I'd rather use OpenTransaction instead of Ripple

18:50:40 mircea_popescu: benkay but i had believed in the power of the crowd source!

18:50:49 mircea_popescu: ot actually works now ?

18:50:53 benkay: 2's a crowd?

18:50:58 pankkake: oh, I suppose you could use it that way too

18:51:12 pankkake: in any case, you don't need a "coin"

18:51:27 Rassah: mircea_popescu: And Brock also privately has a ton of high level connections, probably to almost every bitcoin mining company, bitcoin business, and ons of cuntry politicians, from Russia to China to Sout America...

18:51:54 pankkake: and Thailand

18:52:12 benkay: i long for my home cuntry

18:52:39 ThickAsThieves: cuntry road take me hoem

18:52:39 mircea_popescu: Rassah and if instead he were just a washed up child actor with a charged past, looking to come to terms with his depression, wouldn't he be claiming basically the exact same things ?

18:52:47 Rassah: pankkake: I agree with you that you don't need a coin for anything backed. Backing is by definition centralized, so the only thing you can decentralize is the servers handling it. Which, I guess using a distributed ledger instead of a centralized one running on your own server saves you a bit of money, but...

18:53:00 *: benkay tunes out

18:53:32 mircea_popescu: now seriously dear assets, we need a script for the next girl doing a nude attack vid.

18:53:40 mircea_popescu: who's got ideas!

18:53:44 Rassah: mircea_popescu: I don't think washed out child actors have millions privately invested in tons of companies, and tak about this shit over 20 rounds of beer that they pay with an AmEx Centurion card

18:53:54 mthreat: 1. bitcoin for script writer

18:53:57 mthreat: 2. bitcoin for tits

18:54:05 mthreat: 3. profit

18:54:24 mircea_popescu: well, if noit profit, at least scriptits.

18:54:32 princessnell: i can write a script. no tits from me tho.

18:54:42 mircea_popescu: princessnell but can you make it good ?

18:54:51 princessnell: i think so! what are you going for?

18:54:58 mircea_popescu: you watched the prev ones ?

18:55:19 princessnell: only that one with dear saffron

18:55:30 Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort...

18:55:42 mircea_popescu: princessnell good enough.

18:55:44 Rassah: Anywa, back to reading fraudsters links...

18:55:58 mircea_popescu: princessnell so then why ask me what we're going for ?

18:56:22 princessnell: so i can give you exactly what you want

18:56:23 mircea_popescu: Rassah the bf board is easy. i could have a dead hamster elected, if i wanted to waste btc supporting cancer.

18:56:57 mircea_popescu: i like how this is going, but! what i want is basically the words for a camho to coldhit an older, accomplished male.

18:57:08 mircea_popescu: exactly the reverse of pickup artistrsy

18:57:10 Rassah: Hah! So you got connections to people on the bf board! Finally some real world ties :D

18:57:25 mircea_popescu: this is getting lulzy.

18:57:44 mircea_popescu: Rassah http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-stuff-all-good-conspiracy-theories-start-with/ << identify faces will you.

18:57:45 assbot: The stuff all good conspiracy theories start with pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

18:58:54 princessnell: coquettishness then. how long? who are the marks?

18:59:25 princessnell: #bitcoin-assets is the realest world

18:59:49 mircea_popescu: princessnell how... long ? well so far i took it down from 5 to 3 minutes. if you can deliver in less im sure the girls will love it.

18:59:55 Rassah: I recognize Mircea... I guess that's all that matters?

19:00:00 mircea_popescu: srsly ?

19:00:09 benkay: mircea_popescu: it's going to have to be an actual nude video this time too

19:00:16 mircea_popescu: benkay yeah.

19:00:33 mircea_popescu: the hard part is that well... too much going on for the girl to manage. you'll see.

19:00:43 benkay: hm?

19:00:52 Rassah: mircea_popescu: yeah. Seems there are two completely different power groups in Bitcoin

19:01:16 Rassah: Which is awesome, because I have TWO social ladders to climb now :D

19:01:17 mircea_popescu: Rassah notrly. the people you've not identified include wences, voorhees, momchil, bunches of others.

19:01:31 Rassah: That IS Voorhees?

19:01:39 mircea_popescu: welcome to 2012.

19:01:50 Rassah: I tought it was him, but didn't want to risk insulting you, because I didn't know what your opinion of him is

19:02:32 mthreat: mircea_popescu: have you tried running a google adword on taleb's own name? people often google themselves. I remember reading a blog post from a guy who used that approach to reach someone.

19:02:33 mircea_popescu: perhaps because you also don't know who laid down the ruleset for the sec, and really for the whole us

19:02:45 mircea_popescu: because you think there's somehow two power groups, because i guess... a lot of talking ? or something.

19:02:47 mthreat: mircea_popescu: (assuming you're trying to get taleb here)

19:02:59 mircea_popescu: mthreat yeah but that someone was a vapid marketeering bitch.

19:03:18 mthreat: this was a guy, but i'm sure it's happened more than once

19:03:24 mircea_popescu: imo it'd be a shit move, seeing how plenty of people google taleb to, you know, find taleb.

19:03:33 mthreat: geolocate it to his city

19:03:34 mircea_popescu: (bitch is not gender bound)

19:03:55 mthreat: "bitch is in the heart"

19:04:00 mircea_popescu: are you setting me up for a restraining order ?

19:14:45 mircea_popescu: princessnell if it helps, i think the next victim is nick szabo

19:14:55 mircea_popescu: which reminds me, dear chan, we also need a victim list!

19:16:01 princessnell: ooo <3nick szabo<3 will do my best. bitstein has been chatting him up, maybe he can help with that one.

19:16:42 mircea_popescu: bitcoin-assets. where you do what you love. also puns.

19:18:43 Rassah: mircea_popescu: I noticed you rely a lot on PHP... I've been treating my PHP keys like disposable tissues, and relyig on bitcoin message signing instead...

19:19:01 Rassah: Is that in any way something you accomodate?

19:19:05 mircea_popescu: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/08/26/to-the-dudebro-who-thinks-hes-insulting-me-by-calling-me-a-feminist/ << in which self centered douche imagines someone poking fun at him necessarily gives a shit about him personally.

19:19:29 mircea_popescu: Rassah i have no idea what you just asked. what php keys, and where would i accomodate them ?

19:19:46 Rassah: For instance, at the conference

19:19:58 Rassah: Doh! PGP, not PHP

19:21:16 mircea_popescu: no, i'm not going to support a braindamaged half baked re-implementation of pgp in bitcoind.

19:21:59 mircea_popescu: leaving aside all the 500 other problems with the idea, why would you want to centralise things ?

19:22:25 Rassah: Centralize?

19:22:58 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:24:28 Rassah: It's supported by bitcoind, blockchain.info, Armory, Mycelium, and probably many others. I figured bitcoin message signing is a step in the right direction, because not many are working on making PGP keys secure as hell, but tons of people are woking on making Bitcoin keys secure as hell, and easy to use from wallets. Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing

19:25:42 pankkake: pgp offers more than signing, and has an entirely different paradigm. identity has multiple signing and encryption keys; you trust the identity

19:26:07 Rassah: oh yeah

19:26:22 pankkake: using bitcoin forces you to a lower level that is quite inconvenient

19:26:30 mircea_popescu: Rassah you figured wrong. tieing your ability to sign to bitcoin is a step in the wrong direction.

19:27:18 benkay: apropos of nothing: http://valleywag.gawker.com/police-investigating-star-tech-ceo-over-multiple-rape-a-1601697781

19:27:19 assbot: Police Investigating Star Tech CEO Over Multiple Rape Allegations

19:27:38 mircea_popescu: wait srsly ?!

19:28:54 pankkake: Scott Kveton is the CEO of Urban Airship, a mobile services platform provider in Portland, Oregon <= CEO, "urban", "mobile services", "portland"

19:28:58 benkay: no contracts, no negotiation. just...

19:29:05 pankkake: that wsan't rape, that was ironic sex!

19:29:19 benkay: no safewords even apparently. lots of intoxication.

19:29:39 mircea_popescu: i don't do safewords either.

19:36:22 ThickAsThieves: <+Rassah> Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... /// but how to apply this logic to Ploshay?

19:43:26 mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ao8kz/people_us_dollars_are_not_worth_a_fifth_of_a/

19:43:26 assbot: People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! : Bitcoin

19:43:31 mircea_popescu: reddit discovers things.

19:48:40 Rassah: ThickAsThieves: but how to apply this logic to Ploshay? Ploshay was well liked, and was like the "popular girl" or whatever, elected during a very public election when the BF was still something the general public was interested in, and when BF was still interested in a public image

19:48:59 Rassah: Ploshay won a popularity contest basicaly (I ran against her, so I may be biased)

19:49:42 mircea_popescu: lol wait, the bf is not interested in a public image anymore ?

19:49:57 mircea_popescu: was this 5 minutes before or 5 minutes after their public image got wrecked ?

19:50:28 fluffypony: lol

19:50:34 fluffypony: so Petamine made a BIG fuss about moving to p2pool

19:50:38 fluffypony: https://twitter.com/CoinpricesIO/status/489105070852558848

19:51:20 mircea_popescu: p2pool sadly has some lingering tech issues. for years now.

19:51:28 Rassah: It was not 5 minutes, it was more like a long slog into the dumps

19:51:32 mircea_popescu: i'd love nothing more than to push a p2pool.

19:51:40 Rassah: I love p2pool

19:51:59 Rassah: A lot of the whole "How can we fix 51% attacks" suggestions are really horrible...

19:52:13 ThickAsThieves: indeed

19:54:37 Rassah: I am especially concerned about the one where mining in a pool is made difficult to impossible by making sharing a secret key that lets the miner steal all coins a requirement. The way I see it is, we either have pools that concentrate mining power, but don't actually own or control that power, or we create incentives for individuals to amass tons of mining power, since being a smal miner or as part of a pool is impossible, and

19:54:37 Rassah: then we have individuals that actually do control that mining power. Badly alligned incentives...

19:55:58 Rassah: Basically, pools with 50% mining power are better than individuals with 50% mining power, and some ideas seem to make us trend to 50% owned by individuals

19:56:15 mircea_popescu: Rassah the key sharing thing is braindamaged.

19:56:26 mircea_popescu: there will be a wrapper around it on day 1.01

19:57:07 Rassah: Hey, can you guys tell me who BitcoinPete is?

19:57:37 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust bitcoinpete

19:57:38 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user bitcoinpete: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 7 via 8 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=bitcoinpete | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bitcoinpete | Rated since: Fri Mar 28 09:14:47 2014

19:57:54 mircea_popescu: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/304046_Startup_CEO_Dudebro_Wishes_Deg << someone needs to explain to me how homeless people can be residents of san francisco.

19:57:55 assbot: Startup CEO Dudebro Wishes 'Degenerates' Would Stop Ruining 'The Civilized Part' of San Francisco - LGF Pages

19:58:03 mircea_popescu: am i a resident of sf ?

20:00:04 ThickAsThieves: Rassah, bitcoinpete is a b-a disciple going back roughly 6mos, he blogs and has a neat jewfro

20:00:38 ThickAsThieves: not sure his profession

20:01:14 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

20:01:25 Rassah: Huh. He's actually the reason I'm in here in the first place. I followed his blog here, after he tweeted that Mycelium Entropy < dice, and agreed once I asked him if he would be interested in auditing out device.

20:01:33 gabriel_laddel: they spend a lot on the homeless every year in SF. I imagine that when they hand it out they sort out the papers for these 'people'.

20:01:46 Rassah: Peter Todd will be doing an audit too, ad I was hping Bitcoin Pete was someone with some technical knowledge or something

20:01:55 mircea_popescu: but still. to reside somewhere must mean you own some real estate.

20:02:08 mircea_popescu: Rassah tech knowledge in what field ?

20:02:19 Rassah: software, hardware, anything.

20:02:28 mircea_popescu: that's a little confused.

20:02:48 mircea_popescu: whoa look, bitcoinpete's only been rated since march huh. how time flies.

20:03:08 Rassah: Basically, we have people with reservations about the randomness and security of our entropy devices, despite not actually knowing how it works, and we are hoping to get some of tose people to back up their claims

20:03:46 mircea_popescu: i guess asciilifeform is the guy who's done most re entropy.

20:04:15 Rassah: so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic

20:04:36 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is your express purpose for the cam video to get people like Nick Szabo and Taleb to join #-assets?

20:04:40 Rassah: mircea_popescu: I haven't heard a peep from asciilifeform, actually. Most complaints ave been from slush

20:05:31 asciilifeform: !s asciilifeform mycelium

20:05:31 assbot: 5 results for 'asciilifeform mycelium' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+mycelium

20:05:57 mircea_popescu: wait. were you looking for people with tech expertise or with complaint expertise ?

20:06:28 mircea_popescu: anyway, http://fraudsters.com/2013/cardano-xmas-blown-other-statements/

20:06:30 assbot: Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

20:06:33 mircea_popescu: footnote 5 prolly of most interest to you

20:06:40 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel yes.

20:07:17 Rassah: mircea_popescu: Typicall they are one and the same. It's rare that people who dn't know whit about a topic shit all over it. Unless they're politicians

20:07:26 Rassah: whit = shit

20:07:26 mircea_popescu: or on reddit.

20:07:48 mircea_popescu: or on the internet. or 20. or having a bad day. or w/e.

20:09:34 FabianB: $mpexstatus

20:09:36 empyex: FabianB: Proxies: http://mpex.coinbr.com/ http://mpex.co/ MPEx-Status: Error reaching trade engine (change: $proxies <newlist>)

20:09:37 assbot: 401 Authorization Required

20:11:01 Rassah: The only ones on Reddit who brought up issues were the ones I know to have technical backgrounds (sluch, peter todd, a few others who backed up their concerns with actual technical questions). Most everyone else just went gaga over it. I kinda assumed BitcoinPete knew something about cryptography and security, considering his statement, followed by me asking if he'd be interested in doing an audit for us, and him agreeing.

20:11:14 Rassah: Though if he just bloggs, I'm not sure if that will be worth our time or money

20:11:47 mircea_popescu: ;;seen bitcoinpete

20:11:47 gribble: bitcoinpete was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 hours, 16 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <bitcoinpete> Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."

20:12:02 mircea_popescu: guy shows up here about once a day, you can ask him in person and get an idea.

20:12:08 mircea_popescu: !up CheckDavid

20:12:12 mircea_popescu: !up chetty

20:12:13 Rassah: Will do.

20:12:47 mircea_popescu: anyway, i still don't know what it is or what's to go gaga over.

20:13:13 chetty: http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Thomaston-Man-Arrested-After-Stabbing-Watermelon-Cops-267183461.html

20:13:14 assbot: Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut

20:14:05 mircea_popescu: gotta find more humane ways to cut the gourd ?

20:14:05 Rassah: It's a USB stick that you stick into your priner's USB port, it detects a photo, and you hit print, making your printer print a bicoin paper wallet that's never been exposed to the web. Soon as you pull the stick out, the keys are gone for ever

20:14:06 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: hi baby

20:14:49 CheckDavid: Can't I up myself anymore? :p

20:14:49 Rassah: Basically an extremely high level entropy generator that uses that entropy to make secure paper walets

20:14:52 asciilifeform: Rassah: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2014#744143

20:14:52 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log

20:15:22 mircea_popescu: Rassah is this thing atmel based ?

20:16:00 asciilifeform: Rassah: what must one do to verify - without a shade of doubt, in personal laboratory - that your device works as described?

20:17:10 Rassah: asciilifeform: Atmel SAM4L series running the software, with random number being generated only from SRAM, in combinaton with other things we're considering, like a salt you can add in a TXT file

20:17:30 Rassah: You can check what the software calls for

20:17:47 asciilifeform: Rassah: generated only from SRAM << your code reads a standalone sram? or atmel claims to produce rng output this way inside a black box micro ?

20:18:23 Rassah: I think standalone sram

20:18:48 asciilifeform: Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ?

20:19:51 Rassah: asciilifeform: No, that would be a few of the Mycelium devs. They described a lot of it to me, since I'm working with them (I'm the one doing the public interraction thing, and running Indiegogo and such)

20:20:24 Rassah: I asked and can relay the Atmel/sram question. I think they are al asleep right now, since they're in Austria

20:20:24 asciilifeform: Rassah: other question. in my own experiments, i found that sram powerup 'static' depends heavily on the die's temperature.

20:20:57 asciilifeform: Rassah: what, if anything, does your product do to verify that rng is actually functioning 'as rated' before bits are used in anger?

20:21:50 mircea_popescu: Rassah probably the better avenue would be for the graybeard in charge to show up here

20:22:12 mircea_popescu: people have tried this "i'm the pr, i'll pass q's along" thing before, it never works well, not necessarily through anyone's specific fault,

20:22:18 mircea_popescu: but things get escalated and magnified.

20:23:09 Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)

20:23:14 asciilifeform: Rassah, mircea_popescu: then one last question, for if/when he does. value of adjacent sram cells is correlated. what, if anything, was done about this? (my guess - nothing but the usual 'whitening'.)

20:24:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i personally doubt anyone with hardware understanding touched the design, but then again how would i know.

20:24:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somebody had to crap out the physical unit.

20:24:38 Rassah: We can store part of the raw entropy into non-volatile memory and

20:24:38 Rassah: compare it on the next run. Since we have about 30 times more entropy

20:24:38 Rassah: than we need, we can afford it. This memory effect is already very

20:24:38 Rassah: unlikely; the probability that 1/20th of the SRAM behaves fine and the

20:24:38 Rassah: other 19/20th are stuck is much lower. Especially if the stored part

20:24:39 Rassah: is taken from a different SRAM area every time.

20:24:41 Rassah: We can also add secondary sources to the mix:

20:24:43 Rassah: - the built-in TRNG; nobody trusts these things anymore as primary

20:24:45 Rassah: sources, and we did not even consider its availability when choosing

20:24:47 Rassah: the processor, but it's there and is probably perfectly fine and

20:24:50 Rassah: random;

20:24:51 mircea_popescu: Rassah try a pastebin srsly.

20:24:52 Rassah: - floating ADC inputs, as Peter suggested;

20:24:54 Rassah: - five independent RC oscillators.

20:24:58 Rassah: Sorry for the line spam

20:25:03 Rassah: copy/pasted from reply

20:25:18 asciilifeform: floating adc inputs << you mean local radio station receiver !

20:25:30 Rassah: asciilifeform: this device was designed and assembled by the people workin on the bitcoincard. They all know hardware extremely wel

20:25:35 kakobrekla: Rassah why dont you get people who are actually doing this thing here before you do more damage?

20:25:41 asciilifeform: rc oscillators << you meant - 'thermometers'

20:25:44 mircea_popescu: so it's using an atmel micro but not for the trng ?

20:25:50 Rassah: kakobrekla: Damage?

20:26:54 Rassah: Ah, got a eply. Seems we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM after all. And "We will be doing our own analysis of data from several chips, and provide a raw entropy file for those who want to do their own for their specific device." combined with "option to enter a user-supllied salt"

20:28:00 asciilifeform: /me 'we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM' << has probably read enough.

20:28:02 Rassah: So, we won't be relying on Atmel's RNG, and will be reading their SRAM directly

20:28:03 mircea_popescu: this doesn't sound terribly mature somehow.

20:28:28 Rassah: mature in what way? Completed and researched? Or discussed at present?

20:28:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, this is your punishment for xmas.

20:28:54 asciilifeform: ehehe

20:29:25 Rassah: Is Atmel really that untrustworthy? Is there a better option?

20:29:26 mircea_popescu: Rassah as in i get the impression things may change or w/e. anyway.

20:29:41 mircea_popescu: atmel is a us producer of black box transistor boxes.

20:29:48 asciilifeform: Rassah: ever encounter the concept of 'auditability' ?

20:29:54 mircea_popescu: this is a poor fit for the application.

20:30:10 Rassah: mircea_popescu: No, the hardware design is finished. Changes are only in software. Initial method of creating keys is done, we are just adding software patches to add more and more entropy sources to this thing.

20:30:24 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0AQNY2Q.txt )

20:30:24 kakobrekla: !b 1

20:30:46 mircea_popescu: software does not add entropy.

20:31:01 asciilifeform: floating adc inputs! am i roasting in some sort of F-student hell now?

20:32:03 Rassah: I mean the chip and the hardware has a lot of stuff in there. The entropy is altready there, but initially we figured the SRAM chip was overkill. The "software adding entropy" meaning we just add more code to grab entropy from more hardware and user sources

20:32:17 mircea_popescu: i see.

20:32:27 asciilifeform: Rassah: user sources ???

20:33:54 Rassah: Yes. If you plug tis device into your PC while holding down the button, it shows up in "flash mode", where instead of just a USB stick with a JPG on it, you get to see all the system and settings files. One of those files is a user provded sald (like diceware) that will be combined with the rest of the entropy sources to produce the final key

20:34:24 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'combined' in what sense?

20:35:31 mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aq7w0/psa_bitbet_holding_funds_past_bet_resolution_date/cixxunv kinda lulzy shit.

20:35:32 assbot: DownvCuzIHurtUrFeels comments on PSA: BitBet holding funds past bet resolution date.

20:35:37 asciilifeform: Rassah: let me guess. a hash.

20:36:49 Rassah: key = H(salt||H(entropy)) with H(entropy) on a second sheet of paper so the user can verify it... or something

20:37:47 Rassah: Initially the idea was: Write a salt onto the stick. Then generate key = H(H(entropy_1) + salt) + H(H(entropy_2) + salt), and print all of [key, salt, H(e1), H(H(e1) + salt), H(e2), H(H(e2) + salt)]. (+ could be arithmetic addition or XOR; either should be fine.) The user can then verify exactly one of the outer hashes on an insecure computer, and can verify the additions by hand (literally, pen and paper, no computer)

20:38:05 asciilifeform: Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.

20:38:47 asciilifeform: Rassah: because now your bits are... correlated.

20:39:02 Rassah: Oh, one other answer (one of the techs is awake): We know we're getting sram because we are physically reading it.

20:39:23 asciilifeform: Rassah: do you actually believe that hashing can add (instead of subtracting) entropy?

20:40:46 Rassah: It may reduce entropy, but it inreases he number of attack vectors, doesn't it? Attacker would need both the hardware based RNG and the salt to compromise it

20:41:11 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'we are physically reading it' << how do you know this? that is to say, if both the reader and the sram are on one ic die, how can you substitute, e.g. a fake sram that never flips bits, to test ?

20:41:37 asciilifeform: Rassah: picture a thoroughly, obscenely broken hash.

20:41:56 Rassah: Due to bits not always flipping because of temperature and outside environment, we will be testing for these issues already.

20:42:14 asciilifeform: Rassah: then it doesn't matter what you did to plug in the random bits - they are smeared across the 'ciphertext' (if you will, the hash output) and can be inferred.

20:42:51 mircea_popescu: !up chetty

20:43:12 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'we will be testing' >> how ?

20:44:33 asciilifeform: Rassah: my purpose isn't pedantry. try to apprehend: i buy your product, get a keychain-sized gizmo with a single chip. how do i verify that the package functions exactly as described?

20:45:05 Rassah: I understand. I'm glad you are asking these questions

20:45:13 Rassah: THERE'S someone I finally know!

20:45:34 asciilifeform: Rassah: consider that you are now married to the physical characteristics of a particular model from particular vendor. e.g. next year atmel ships sram that's non-entropic down to -40. without bothering to tell you. or it is 'entropic', but actually picks up Voice of America.

20:45:37 Rassah: The Davi Barket convention standin

20:45:41 Rassah: *Barker

20:46:13 Rassah: asciilifeform: He's writing. Give me a sec

20:46:17 BingoBoingo: Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too << Transaxel is just a sideways transmission

20:46:50 mircea_popescu: Rassah seriously, this guy can't irc or something ?

20:46:57 kakobrekla: Pirus story rehashed with the new gizmo

20:47:11 Rassah: BingoBoingo: It's three motors in a constantly moving planetary gear setup. The "transmitting" is done by varying input, generation, and torque of he electric motors

20:47:32 mircea_popescu: yah i think that's how they do all the hybrids.

20:47:52 Rassah: Just Prius. Others use plain engine, plain motor, ad connect them with a CVT

20:48:06 kakobrekla: o wait i take that back.

20:49:07 Rassah: Basicaly, normally to get more power, a car (or other hybrids) switch to a lower gear ratio and spin the electric and/or gas harder. In a prius, the gas engine spins faster than the smaler inner engine can keep up, whic cases it to spin backwards, generate electricity, and then that electric is pumped into the big electric engine

20:50:24 Rassah: Here's an interractive animation of it http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

20:50:25 assbot: Toyota Prius - Power Split Device

20:52:37 Rassah: mircea_popescu: Not realy. The reason I was hired is because they don't have time or patience for that

20:52:42 BingoBoingo: Right, but this arrangement of gears and fluids to drive power to wheels is still a transmission. Even if oddly arranged. Nearly any front wheel drive, front engine car uses the term transaxle for this.

20:53:13 BingoBoingo: Because it is transmission+axle

20:53:23 Rassah: BingoBoingo: I think Prius calls it a transaxle too. But I don't see it as any sort of normal "transmission"

20:53:41 Rassah: After working on cars, this thing is too weird and different (and less problem-prone) to me

20:54:07 mircea_popescu: Rassah well then i guess they don't get to talk about it at all, to no-one's particular detriment.

20:54:35 BingoBoingo: Oh it is abnormal as hell, but because of its role it is still a transmission

20:55:15 Rassah: asciilifeform: from Nikita: Firstly, we'll publish our analysis of data from chips and argue that it should apply to all chips, and whoever wants can get data from his chip and run our tools or make his own. (our device will be fully open source, so anyone can make one if they wish). Secondly, we zero out a word in memory and make sure it's got enough 1s next time. If there was not enough power-off time, sram would retain its

20:55:15 Rassah: state and we'd read 0 and refuse to generate a key. We will check if the amount of 0 > x% and < y% (to check for deep-freeze temperatures) the Closer they are to 50% the better

20:55:24 Rassah: but since the sample amount is very large even a 10% value is technically enough

20:55:52 asciilifeform: Rassah: ask him if whitening is used anywhere.

20:56:43 Rassah: I asked. Can you tell me what whitening is? I'm not that techie :(

20:57:13 Rassah: hashing?

20:57:35 asciilifeform: Rassah: hashing as an attempt to 'distill' entropy.

20:59:34 mircea_popescu: whitening is the process of turning the banal 11111 string into b0baee9d279d34fa1dfd71aadb908c3f

20:59:52 mircea_popescu: which is supposedly "entropic", up until someone tries to put your source through md5

20:59:53 Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita says we use standard cryptographic hashes. Just for salt, for private and public keys, and other bitcoin specific things

20:59:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes. some people, somehow, think this adds 'entropy'

21:00:12 asciilifeform: Rassah: i drew you a picture: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jjqY9eTW

21:00:30 Rassah: We don't use hashing as a source of entropy, no. Only to combine ours with a salt

21:00:44 asciilifeform: Rassah: this is approximately the kind of pattern you end up with using sram on powerup

21:01:09 asciilifeform: Rassah: as you can see - if you turn this into a bitstring by pure 'raster' scan, it will contain mostly zero.

21:01:27 asciilifeform: Rassah: by what means do you 'collect the entropy' ?

21:01:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no matter. von neuman :D

21:01:53 Rassah: asciilifeform: We read the ram data directly

21:02:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: von neumann of predictable bitstream is still predictable.

21:02:10 mircea_popescu: but debiased!

21:02:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: comput von neumann of '0101010101'.

21:03:35 mircea_popescu: i suspect a trick.

21:04:05 mircea_popescu: !up ducky_

21:04:31 mike_c: 00000

21:04:33 mike_c: what do i win

21:04:56 Rassah: asciilifeform: It's a bit white (with 0's), but it's considerably more populated than that. This is the paper that we used to base this one, and it has some examples of the results http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.164.6432&rep=rep1&type=pdf

21:05:11 Rassah: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.164.6432

21:05:12 assbot: CiteSeerX — Power-up SRAM State as an Identifying Fingerprint and Source of True Random Numbers

21:05:22 asciilifeform: Rassah: we read the paper. (or at least, i did)

21:05:31 Rassah: ok

21:05:47 asciilifeform: Rassah: consider the title of the paper. do you see any apparent contradiction?

21:06:52 Rassah: Hah, Nikita just ran the output from our device as an actual example http://pastebin.com/yz2GnsKd

21:06:52 assbot: 0000200: 00001011 00101101 11010100 11101010 .-.. 0000204: 11111101 01111100 1 - Pastebin.com

21:07:01 BingoBoingo: Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... << 90's nostalgia

21:07:38 Rassah: BingoBoingo: Name one movie (besides Mighty Ducks, where he had a sall cameo) that we was in? I've never even heard of him before bitcoin

21:08:30 mike_c: it's not a cameo if you're not famous

21:08:45 BingoBoingo: Rassah: Some thing where he went in time with knights or some shit. At first I confused him with Thomas Ian Nicholas. I think his popularity stems from this confusion.

21:09:10 asciilifeform: Rassah: not very interesting, i'm afraid. let's see the actual grid values - unprocessed.

21:09:16 Rassah: His movies are shit from what he told me

21:09:33 asciilifeform: Rassah: note that you would need to know the actual physical layout of atmel's die, to draw this picture. do you?

21:09:35 Rassah: asciilifeform: We'll publish those

21:10:25 asciilifeform: Rassah: it would have to be an electron micrograph. taken by somebody other than atmel.

21:11:24 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=569043.0;all << check that shit out

21:11:24 assbot: Auction of AdBit.co - Advertising network

21:11:35 Rassah: Will Atmel know what your seed and other entropy sources are? If not, why does it matter?

21:12:14 Rassah: LOL! Um...

21:12:22 asciilifeform: Rassah: atmel can replace your sram with whatever it likes.

21:12:35 Rassah: won't that cost them way more?

21:12:55 asciilifeform: Rassah: including, e.g. one that functions as an sram on all days but every 5th christmas.

21:13:18 Rassah: and won't that make an excelent opportunity for someone to sell a device just like ours, using their own trusted sram chips? Maybe for more money, but more secure?

21:13:28 asciilifeform: Rassah: but all of this pales in comparison to another little observation. recall pg. 10 of the paper.

21:13:30 BingoBoingo: Rassah: ... Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing << Other big difference is PGP signing has a nice container for inline signatures attached to signed human readable text of arbitrary length

21:14:08 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will Fig. 11: This contour shows the probability distribution at 273 K and 323

21:14:29 asciilifeform: Rassah: K, of all cells that are neutral at 293 K. Note that the probability exceeds 0.04 at the highest points; these peaks are omitted to show the rest of the distribution with greater detail. See Section VI-B1 for discussion typically

21:14:34 Rassah: BingoBoingo: -----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

21:14:35 Rassah: Comment: Signed by Bitcoin Armory v0.91.99

21:14:35 Rassah: You mean like this?

21:14:35 Rassah: -----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----

21:14:35 Rassah: HOmDGwDHYEtFRXWurHW7km9QCKWJMRVyqfPbsBOEQmvFVLTRQVOTAtB/OZHkTuxG

21:14:35 Rassah: UfcLmLUyQoCbsHWrWqApocg=

21:14:37 Rassah: =/98y

21:14:39 Rassah: -----END BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----

21:15:12 BingoBoingo: Rassah: And different clients produce diffent signoturds and expect different signaturds.

21:15:24 asciilifeform: Rassah: ergo: if i have a sufficiently precise graph of the temperature of your unit over time, i can infer something about the sram and which cells are responsible for the bulk of the input to rng.

21:15:27 mircea_popescu: o look at that, they DO listen.

21:15:44 Rassah: asciilifeform: We've dealt with skew stuff too. I don't remember what it was, but it was addressed (I think we have more than enough enropy to work with or something)

21:15:46 BingoBoingo: !up nanotube

21:16:49 Rassah: BingoBoingo: Blockchain.info is weird abou it, but bitcoin-qt, Armory, and Mycelium are all compatible

21:16:49 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will make that same cell 0-skewed.' << fixed bad paste

21:16:55 BingoBoingo: !up MarcSummers

21:17:47 asciilifeform: Rassah: the skew we're talking about isn't rng output skew - the kind that can be addressed with von neuman's algo, etc. it's the actual physical effect you're using.

21:19:00 Rassah: asciilifeform: From Nikita again: Most cells have too much skew to be useful. We suck entropy out of those whose skew is low. That's why there is ~21:1 cell-to-entropy ratio at room temperature on most devices. They had one device from Microchip IIRC, whose entropy was much lower, but the others were very close to the 20–21 ballpark. We analysed data from MRD SoC, which is in the bitcoincard, and got the same 21:1 ratio. Then I

21:19:00 Rassah: put it in the freezer in the kitchen and collected data while it was cooling down. There was still plenty at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. The cells with high skew are those which effectively constitute device signature.

21:19:00 Rassah: We can say that the skews are randomly distributed among cells during manufacture, and then remain fixed; temperature shifts all skews.

21:19:45 BingoBoingo: Rassah: And the last tolerable version of Multibit does something else as well. When PGP/GPG has the ascii armored text block already it just isn't worth trying to replace it with bitcoin signing just to save a few bytes.

21:20:24 asciilifeform: Rassah: your friend has cemented my conclusion. i can figure out which cells are responsible for the device's output, merely by knowing your room temperature over time. and then all we have to do is run brute force over the narrowed set. (a few bits)

21:20:24 Rassah: BingoBoingo: You could just say "Bitcoin address doesn't support encryption, or storing identity inside the key"

21:21:09 mircea_popescu: he could also say "i don't want my signature to be dependent on the code written last year by a bunch of dudebros"

21:21:10 BingoBoingo: Rassah: That too, but I just want to point out that even for signing cleartext, it isn't workable.

21:21:21 mircea_popescu: understandable, especially as pgp has been around for three decades.

21:22:37 Rassah: asciilifeform: So, if I use an entropy device to generate paper walets, you can bruteforce it by recording the temperature in my room???

21:23:04 asciilifeform: Rassah: evidently.

21:23:17 Rassah: I plug it into my printer, and make a paper walet. I put it away, and send money to the paper wallet. Then you......

21:23:46 mircea_popescu: takes the stick, puts it in the freezer, melts it slowly, identifies the flip bits, counts them

21:23:58 mircea_popescu: tries all values of a few bits and finds your key.

21:24:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was hoping he'd figure it out, without you or i drawing the picture.

21:24:40 mircea_popescu: he's not tech, is he.

21:25:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha the tech won't read any of this.

21:25:18 Rassah: I am not tech, no. I wasn't aware that these things actually retained any bits when you yank them out

21:25:34 Rassah: asciilifeform: On the contrary, they are reading all of this

21:25:43 mircea_popescu: Rassah it's not that they retain bits. it's that they retain their behaviour.

21:25:56 asciilifeform: Rassah: if you read the paper, you will see that a small minority of sram cells is responsible for most of the 'random' behaviour.

21:26:10 mircea_popescu: all it takes is to find which, and/or count them

21:26:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, it may not eve be necessary to capture a particular unit. just one of her 'sisters.'

21:27:22 mircea_popescu: same batch, yea, obv. with a little luck they are exactly identical.

21:27:26 Rassah: So it's a good thing we're not relying on just SRAM fo the entropy then

21:27:43 mircea_popescu: with a little less luck they're identical but physically translated in the plane.

21:27:49 asciilifeform: Rassah: also on voice of america picked up by loose adc inputs?

21:28:04 mircea_popescu: Rassah do you know what the cook said when the people in the restaurant didn't like his shit soup ?

21:28:06 Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita: Well, yeah, you can narrow the range down to about 8000 bits.

21:29:02 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu leave the bits you dont like? :)

21:29:20 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lmao good one. but no, it was "thanks god i put some piss in there too, so it's not all shit"

21:29:34 kakobrekla: lol

21:29:34 asciilifeform: lol!!

21:29:42 Rassah: :D

21:30:38 Rassah: asciilifeform: Work on this device was started in early September. So we have had a lot of tests on the chips by people who have been working on bitcoin cryptography for years now. So it seems as if they are aware of most of these concerns...

21:31:19 asciilifeform: Rassah: 'they are aware of most of these concerns' << and still did nothing. this, you realize, is an accusation of willful scammitude. not mere ignorance.

21:31:36 kakobrekla: do you go to church Rassah ?

21:32:13 Rassah: kakobrekla: What kind of a question is that?

21:32:14 fluffypony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

21:32:14 assbot: "Weird Al" Yankovic - Word Crimes - YouTube

21:32:25 Rassah: Me: You're basically saying that, even if they stole the device and examined it, or stole one that was made right after it with similar chip characteristics, they'd still have 8000 bits of entropy to dea with, making their brutefocing impossible?

21:32:25 Rassah: Nikita: Yes.

21:33:03 asciilifeform: Rassah: what size sram ?

21:34:09 Rassah: From another ech working on this: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits

21:34:16 Rassah: Nikita: Total size 32 kBytes, we use about 21 kB as entropy source.

21:34:30 asciilifeform: Rassah: there are not 8000 uncorrelated bits in there.

21:34:46 mircea_popescu: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits << wtf nonsense is this ?

21:35:14 Rassah: Different guy who does the software commenting about the software side of it? I have no idea

21:35:49 mircea_popescu: https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/006.pdf etc

21:35:51 asciilifeform: there is some typical 'confusion between the warm and the soft' here. the only bits that matter are entirely independent (in the statistical sense) ones.

21:36:09 Rassah: asciilifeform: You will be informed when our sources are released and you are invited to give his opiniion then <<-- Apparently my official statement

21:36:22 Rassah: asciilifeform: "He's wasting your time, that's obvious now." <<- not official statement

21:36:36 kakobrekla: lol

21:36:41 asciilifeform: Rassah: so! product sold first. sources published - sometime, maybe - later. interesting.

21:36:51 mircea_popescu: you know, i had told you this won't work about an hour ago.

21:37:00 Rassah: no, sources wll be published before product is out

21:37:16 mircea_popescu: at least the fact that it's been worked on since sept makes me feel a lot better.

21:37:30 Rassah: We have sources, we just don't want cheap chinese knockoffs undercutting us before we even ship

21:37:57 mircea_popescu: how much is it gonna cost ?

21:38:03 asciilifeform: Rassah: wait. you expect that your target market consists of people who would even contemplate buying a knockoff ?!!

21:39:04 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2BPFDFM.txt )

21:39:04 BingoBoingo: !b 3

21:39:52 Rassah: asciilifeform: Have you seen the chinese bitcoin mining market?

21:40:13 asciilifeform: Rassah: what do miners have to do with it ?

21:40:42 Rassah: And yes, if the software and hardware is completely open source and public, why wouldn't someone want to sell cheaper knockoffs? We hope we can still sell outs at a premium, due to our reputaton and such, but...

21:40:42 dub: http://www.wankcoin.com/

21:40:43 assbot: WANKCOIN | Bank While You Wank!

21:40:49 dub: how did assets miss this?

21:40:58 Rassah: generic hardware is easy to reproduce

21:40:58 mircea_popescu: dub global cooling.

21:41:16 dub: 1.21 jiggafaps

21:41:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got your pm s off or something?

21:41:45 mircea_popescu: dub check it out, #wankcoin

21:42:51 asciilifeform: actually i must admit that i am looking forward to these machines being produced, shipping, selling widely. because apparently there is only one way to educate people - let them piss on electric fence in person.

21:42:58 dub: https://www.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-WKC

21:42:58 assbot: Bittrex.com - BTC-WKC Market

21:44:17 dub: Sex! Money! Power!. WANKCOIN!!!

21:44:24 BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/07/clinic/

21:44:25 assbot: In Bid to Cut Costs, Hospital Creates New Multi-Organ System Failure Clinic | Medical Satire - GomerBlog

21:44:37 Rassah: asciilifeform: I take it you're one of those who thinks the only way to create a paper wallet is to buy a used $100 laptop, use diceware with at least 20 words, use the laptop to hash that into your private key and address, write it down by hand on paper using a hard glass surface, and then burn the laptop?

21:45:06 asciilifeform: Rassah: hash!?

21:45:41 mircea_popescu: dub is the page empty or just too jscripty for me ?

21:45:46 Rassah: asciilifeform: I use "hash" interchangeably with "compute with one of the inputs for the formula being your source of entropy, and the output being your private key

21:45:52 dub: mircea_popescu: works here

21:46:12 Rassah: Or do you think that Bitcoin is not secure, because the bitcoin address is hashed from the private key?

21:46:14 asciilifeform: Rassah: i have a perfectly adequate source of physical entropy. actually a small crate of them at this point.

21:46:19 dub: tl;dr bid is 0.00009875

21:46:37 Rassah: asciilifeform: beer bottles and writin sourcecode while drunk?

21:46:37 BingoBoingo: Rassah: Address is hashed from public key...

21:47:06 mircea_popescu: details.

21:47:07 Rassah: BingoBoingo: I know. Priv > pub > address. I as shortening

21:47:16 Rassah: as = am

21:47:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.0119 = 0.8211 BTC [-]

21:49:06 BingoBoingo: If fucking is just about sticking your dick in a hole that accomodates it, I'm just going to get some pipe from the hardware store, saw it into dick length pieces, and sell them pocket pussies. What could go wrong???

21:49:30 mircea_popescu: isn't this fleshlight in nucet ?

21:50:11 kakobrekla: and it does sell.

21:50:24 Rassah: This ting is made for people who are not techy (most of not bitcoiners) who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer. I think this device, where you plug t into your printer and hit print, will make bitcoin a hell of a lot easier to secure for the masses. And it costs a fracton of what the other

21:50:24 Rassah: options are. So, yeah, it's not perfect (with RNG nothing ever is). But it'll help

21:50:50 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, I'm just cutting the pipe and selling it. A dick fits, what is this thing where a dick needs to do more than fit in something to fuck it. I'm just taking a shortcut.

21:51:25 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo actually, here's an idea : silicone recipients filled with vodka.

21:51:28 Rassah: BingoBoingo: IF it's an uncut dick, that should work fine, but you'll have stiff competition from already existing holes, like couch cussons for instance

21:51:31 mircea_popescu: you drink the booze and then fuck the "bottle"

21:51:35 mircea_popescu: "A date in one!"

21:51:45 Rassah: *stiff* competition

21:52:28 asciilifeform: bbl

21:53:06 Rassah: I seriously hate this keyboard btw... It's a very old microsoft touch-type wireless ergonomic, and it misses the keys around the G and H constantly. But I'm too cheap of a bastard to get a better one. So, please ignore my typos, and don't let them reflect on my grammar skills (I took Latin, damnit!)

21:53:14 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's a shortcut for the consumer. It's the opposite of a shortcut to produce. Doing the minimum is the right way to produce. Never mind we won't polish the burrs off the edges either.

21:54:08 Rassah: bbl as well

21:55:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what, you kidding ? just pour the caulk in a shape. cheapest shit ever.

21:55:44 BingoBoingo: Nah, we'll just let people hash their privates...

21:56:54 dub: just sale instructibles for digging dick sized hole in ground

21:57:47 FabianB: Rassah: so it's mainly for the masses who want to store 0.01 btc on a paperwallet

21:58:21 mircea_popescu: FabianB hopefilly more than that, since it'll cost more than 6 bux i imagine

22:00:39 FabianB: probably

22:01:16 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC to top $800 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/994/ Odds: 24(Y):76(N) by coin, 24(Y):76(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.40823557 BTC. Current weight: 83,014.

22:01:17 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "LTC to $15USD or above before August 3rd" http://bitbet.us/bet/855/ Odds: 6(Y):94(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.59913185 BTC. Current weight: 18,143.

22:01:18 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "DJI to drop below 16000 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/818/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 34(Y):66(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.620212 BTC. Current weight: 12,319.

22:01:20 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Crude Oil to reach $120 before August" http://bitbet.us/bet/941/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 22(Y):78(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.90944413 BTC. Current weight: 25,884.

22:11:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] 309 @ 0.00778049 = 2.4042 BTC [-] {34}

22:26:15 benkay: <ThickAsThieves> not sure his profession // housewife

22:30:40 benkay: <Rassah> so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic // well if its chips and an rng, asciilifeform's likely to tell you that unless you can inspect the chips (which you can't), you can't make claims about the RNG.

22:30:45 benkay: but i'm just a dog

22:34:22 benkay: <asciilifeform> Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ? // hee hee hee hee i'll just pop this corn

22:38:59 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

22:39:02 gribble: Current Blocks: 310907 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1572 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17899784284.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.25021

22:39:10 benkay: wow what a logwall

22:40:00 BingoBoingo: Amazing logwall

22:40:32 benkay: amazon assbit

22:41:53 BingoBoingo: Maybe there needs to be a backup instance of assbot named buttsett

22:46:06 benkay: <Rassah> who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer // this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. as a person nominally involved in "public relations" you should never commit such derpitude in public.

22:46:08 benkay: !up Rassah

22:48:02 pankkake: Bitaddress, trusting some random js prng?

22:48:15 pankkake: also, trusting your printer

22:48:47 BingoBoingo: Printers are the worst.

22:50:03 benkay: !up Mats_cd03

22:50:13 Mats_cd03: my nigga

22:50:21 benkay: sup baby

22:50:25 Mats_cd03: laptop with gpg died :<

22:50:30 benkay: baw haw haw

22:50:37 benkay: y u no backup, Mats_cd03

22:50:51 Mats_cd03: i can ddrescue the drive if i cant fix the machine

22:50:59 benkay: do that immediately!

22:51:05 Mats_cd03: i think i can though, just gonna put it through an alcohol bath (i spilled water on it)

22:51:09 benkay: oh for fucks sake

22:51:24 Mats_cd03: http://www.mpi-sws.org/~stevens/pubs/imc11.pdf real gud paper bout skype

22:51:29 mike_c: didn't you lose the one because you were stoned?

22:51:32 mike_c: *last

22:51:38 Mats_cd03: well yes

22:51:39 benkay: moi?

22:51:49 benkay: don't crypto and drugs

22:52:14 benkay: (do (or crypto drugs))

22:52:23 Mats_cd03: gay

22:52:37 benkay: don't hate the player

22:52:50 Mats_cd03: no but seriously read the paper

22:53:05 Mats_cd03: skype enables tracking by entities other than nsa

22:53:09 Mats_cd03: cause lol

22:54:27 BingoBoingo: So over a sample size of 2, drunk is less memory bad than stoned

22:55:16 dub: narcocryptoterrorists up in here

22:59:08 Mats_cd03: https://soundcloud.com/samfeldt/sander-van-doorn-firebeatz-guitar-track-sam-feldt-remix-free-download tropical house and sax

22:59:09 assbot: Sander Van Doorn & Firebeatz - Guitar Track (Sam Feldt Remix) [FREE DOWNLOAD] by Sam Feldt on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds

23:01:44 Mats_cd03: oh man that conversation about the usb stick is hilarious

23:02:02 Mats_cd03: alf bout to die

23:07:25 asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: not quite dead. just had to drive home.

23:07:30 Mats_cd03: suffering from 'close enough' syndrome

23:08:00 Mats_cd03: (the usb stick team, anyway)

23:08:10 Mats_cd03: perfection is intellectually difficult, you know

23:10:05 Mats_cd03: i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with patented ASLR

23:10:08 BingoBoingo: Mats_cd03: Not even perfection, merely "good enough" is a challenge in any endeavor

23:10:10 Mats_cd03: what a world huh

23:10:14 BingoBoingo: Huh

23:10:21 Mats_cd03: (Skywing, Ken Johnson)

23:11:00 Mats_cd03: http://www.google.com/patents/US20090254726

23:11:00 assbot: Patent US20090254726 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents

23:12:56 asciilifeform: starcraft with patented ASLR << wtf ?

23:13:32 Mats_cd03: borked english. i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with, patented ASLR

23:14:02 benkay: 1. WoT

23:14:02 benkay: 2. Start business

23:14:02 benkay: 3. List

23:14:06 benkay: hue

23:14:48 asciilifeform: 'a method of address space layout randomization for a Windows operating system.' << lol!

23:20:07 Mats_cd03: i learned today you can sabotage EMET

23:21:12 asciilifeform: !up Mats_cd03

23:21:19 Mats_cd03: SetThreadContext is non-deterministically broken from XP x64 SP0 to Server 2008 R1 x64 SP2

23:22:21 BingoBoingo: !up DoctorBTC

23:22:30 Mats_cd03: cant protect any x64 browsers...qa didnt even test it

23:22:35 BingoBoingo: !up kyuupichan

23:23:32 dub: the real question, is it bongwater in Mats_cd03's laptop

23:25:47 BingoBoingo: ;;seen Cosmos

23:25:48 gribble: Cosmos was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Cosmos> I brought entertainment & then I faded down to a speck of nothing

23:29:32 BingoBoingo: %t

23:29:33 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 210 Ask: 242 Last Price: 210 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A

23:30:51 Mats_cd03: sorry... i meant to say it is deterministically broken. the subterfuge is non-deterministic

23:38:50 Mats_cd03: also read this today http://www.hexeffect.com/virtual_deob.html discusses VM-based packers

23:38:51 assbot: HexEffect, LLC

23:41:06 BigBitz: interesting link, Mats_cd03.

23:41:10 asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: crapware authors went lazy ages ago. most use none - or standard - packers. standard packer -> standard unpacker.

23:41:34 Mats_cd03: as i understand it, vm-based packers are really hard to use properly

23:42:27 asciilifeform: many people write, e.g. a 'mips' (or other small instruction set) emulator and cross-compile for it. when you get hold of one of these, you can just extract the turd and disassemble using toolset for that cpu.

23:42:44 Mats_cd03: most crapware authors simply fuck it up when they try to implement the obfuscation

23:42:55 Mats_cd03: and the use-case for that sort of thing is limited anyway

23:43:45 Mats_cd03: you can do things like look for the VM license. lol.

23:43:55 Mats_cd03: 'in the most amateur sense of 'fucking it up''

23:44:37 BingoBoingo: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2559#comic

23:44:37 assbot: Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal

23:44:43 *: asciilifeform deals with this crud for a living

23:45:18 Mats_cd03: when my carpal tunnel gets better id like to do it full time

23:45:35 Mats_cd03: although im going to avoid dc at all costs

23:46:03 BingoBoingo: Mats_cd03: How is that going? Find anything that offers more relief yet?

23:48:44 Mats_cd03: its been milder recently, ive been typing a lot less (which means no coding unfortunately for benkay)

23:49:14 BingoBoingo: Rest works in mysterious ways

23:51:24 Mats_cd03: i tried to teach dragon programming in c

23:51:43 BingoBoingo: !up Mats_cd03

23:51:47 Mats_cd03: ended up smashing a keyboard out of a fit of childish rage

23:52:02 Mats_cd03: computers, y u so stupid

23:52:28 BingoBoingo: Maybe you should give up and start keyboarding with your toes

23:53:00 mike_c: keyboards should be able to take a good beating. otherwise they are by (my) definition not fit for professionals.

23:53:30 asciilifeform: mike_c: 'ibm model m' is indestructible, short of power tools

23:53:43 mike_c: one of its charms for sure

23:54:12 *: BingoBoingo offers a bastard file and patience

23:54:40 kakobrekla: btw mike there is a mod where you can make the model m office safe in terms of noise and the feedback is only slightly affected

23:55:28 Mats_cd03: BigBitz: which one?

23:56:13 BigBitz: the HexEffect link.

23:56:19 BigBitz: relating to VM obfuscating :)

23:56:31 kakobrekla: the way to do is - insert the very thick dental floss (oral b super floss) inside the springs, between 50 and 100% of the height

23:56:53 kakobrekla: worth giving a shot if you own one.

23:57:14 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: cheaper to buy the neighbours their own 'model m' each

23:57:25 kakobrekla: defo not cheapers.

23:57:38 asciilifeform: well - cheaper if your time has value.

23:58:19 kakobrekla: well if you count that, depends on the neighbor count

23:58:40 kakobrekla: these boards arent exactly cheap anymore.

23:59:01 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they're still dirt cheap on 'ebay', etc. if you're willing to clean an ancient one.

23:59:13 kakobrekla: nevertheless people will resist using these.

23:59:24 kakobrekla: so you will spend time arguing.

23:59:35 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: my recipe: a bucker, dishwasher detergent, soak overnight. wash in cold water. dry overnight.

23:59:39 asciilifeform: *bucket

23:59:42 kakobrekla: and cleaning is time is money again.

23:59:44 asciilifeform: keys & caps off.

23:59:54 asciilifeform: takes ~1/2 hr. total.