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Transcript for 15-08-2015, 1101 lines:

00:01:13 funkenstein_: https://github.com/iGotSpots/Negativity5/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L846 <-- for those of you who stayed away from proof of stake because not broken enough yet

00:01:17 assbot: Negativity5/main.cpp at master · iGotSpots/Negativity5 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDdEWW )

00:07:38 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000146.html

00:07:39 assbot: [BTC-dev] The Full Orchestra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NvAJoo )

00:07:41 asciilifeform: achtung, panzerz!

00:08:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu especially, because he, iirc, wanted this very much.

00:08:12 asciilifeform: and now it is here.

00:08:20 mircea_popescu: o hey!

00:09:52 mircea_popescu: bless you asciilifeform

00:10:14 asciilifeform: pleeez test!

00:10:28 asciilifeform: before blessing or creaming pants or other expressions of joy.

00:11:42 asciilifeform: i in particular will feel more cheerful once some patient fella actually reproduces the exact thing i did here, using vdiff.sh

00:11:44 mircea_popescu: can't has joy ?

00:11:45 asciilifeform: it isn't hard.

00:11:47 asciilifeform: has.

00:12:13 asciilifeform: and i will repeat that the output of this, is not at this exact moment very useful. the antecedent hashes are eaten by 'v'

00:12:27 asciilifeform: a versioning system that is merely a few kb of script

00:12:51 asciilifeform: will be released also soon.

00:13:11 asciilifeform: (having spiffy commands like 'who-signed')

00:14:08 asciilifeform: i also did not preserve the dates in the original patches

00:14:15 asciilifeform: if someone wishes to do this, he can write a bit of awk/sed

00:14:39 asciilifeform: to edit rel1.patch and rel2-pre.patch.

00:16:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00064631 = 15.77 BTC [-] {4}

00:16:37 asciilifeform: also note that items like 'rotor', which are not mods of bitcoin proper, are not mentioned in the orchestra.

00:21:26 *: asciilifeform off to pet pet

00:22:06 mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000146.html << cool! i'll take a closer look at this tonight.

00:22:07 assbot: [BTC-dev] The Full Orchestra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NvAJoo )

00:34:00 trinque: damn cool; I'll take a crack at it too.

00:38:44 trinque: jurov: I still can't change my settings on the ML. when I save them, it kicks me back to the password screen, then back to config from there, where it has the previous values

00:38:52 trinque: cookie issue?

00:39:25 *: trinque wants each e-mail, not digests

00:54:18 pete_dushenski: since scoopbot_revived seems to have been asleep at the wheel earlier today : http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/14/of-trumpets-and-trombones/ http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/14/the-user-and-the-rotor/

00:54:19 assbot: Of trumpets and trombones. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDjA29 )

00:54:20 assbot: The user and the rotor. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDjA2d )

00:54:48 pete_dushenski: and yes, as expected, 'metro news edmonton' has failed to respond to my advertisement inquiry

00:55:18 pete_dushenski: because they're just not into that non-gay singles thing were straight men seek straigh womenz to take care of

00:55:51 pete_dushenski: because it's only twinks that wanna be taken care of now in this ever so progressive corner of the americas

00:56:53 pete_dushenski: having a masters in femtonism means that you're automagically skilled and whatnot, so being 'taken care of' is the ultimate insult to your intelligence and self-worth

00:58:03 pete_dushenski: i wanna say 'whatever. enjoy being 35 and barren. y'all get what y'all deserve.' but perhaps that's unfair

00:58:35 pete_dushenski: seeing through the muck and the mire is hard. but not impossible !

01:02:32 pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2015/08/montreal-expo-postponed-for-lack-of-sponsors/#comment-41274 << i enjoyed this. a quick googling of 'coin4x' yields a highly active localbitcoins trader, though the '650' area code would indicate california, not quebec, so perhaps a different fella

01:02:33 assbot: Montreal Expo Postponed For Lack of Sponsors | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDkcVA )

01:03:41 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/#comment-26239 --https://twitter.com/paulpaschos glhf mongotron

01:03:43 assbot: A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum’s Genesis Sale Offers | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDkhIK )

01:06:56 wilbns: ...in the process of writing a post comparing Ethereum to The Manhattan Project.

01:08:06 pete_dushenski: wilbns are you high ?

01:08:27 pete_dushenski: that's first and foremost

01:08:27 wilbns: pete_dushenski: no

01:08:40 pete_dushenski: also, wilbns do you have a blog ?

01:10:15 wilbns: https://medium.com/@wilbns

01:10:17 assbot: will binns — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDkLyE )

01:10:20 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski how's women and some local newspaper related ?

01:10:47 wilbns: ethereum vs manhattan project in a nutshell

01:11:03 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu just an avenue

01:11:13 mircea_popescu: ya but i mean... not like they voted for it.

01:11:26 pete_dushenski: what's voting have to do with it ?

01:12:37 mircea_popescu: well i mean, teh women didn't elect metro something as the avenue for de-barren-isation did they

01:13:47 pete_dushenski: it has a sufficiently broad cross-section of readership that it doesn't need electing so much

01:13:47 asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h0opx/edward_snowden_on_bitcoin << best filipino

01:13:48 assbot: Edward Snowden on Bitcoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1TDScwO )

01:13:51 pete_dushenski: young, old, poor, rich

01:14:01 pete_dushenski: they read 'metro'

01:14:20 pete_dushenski: "nobody really likes to talk about Bitcoin anymore"

01:14:26 asciilifeform: best comment: 'I respect him, but he sounds like a mumbling moron.'

01:14:30 pete_dushenski: classic.

01:14:56 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski well they read it, but they don't edit it rite.

01:15:10 mircea_popescu: "Obviously, Bitcoin by itself is flawed. "

01:15:12 mircea_popescu: obviously.

01:15:27 mircea_popescu: i heard this said emptily by a large number of derps, so it must be so.

01:15:30 pete_dushenski: clear as the giant forehead on your face

01:16:02 mircea_popescu: there's a lot of things of which i can't really name anything but hey, a lot of vague vulnerabilities are better than one specifically.

01:16:29 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu certainly so that 'teh womenz' don't edit the rag. makes it a two-stage deployment.

01:16:42 mircea_popescu: well don't blame stage 2 for the movements of stagr 1

01:16:50 mircea_popescu: especially seeing how stage 1 is precisely there to prevent stage 2.

01:16:57 pete_dushenski: aha.

01:17:15 pete_dushenski: how cruel, those stage 1ers

01:18:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00065395 = 1.3079 BTC [+]

01:18:07 pete_dushenski: "if i suck and can't have love and children and a successful husband, than neither can you !"

01:18:54 mircea_popescu: and how i wish for a successful husband.

01:19:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47789 @ 0.00063557 = 30.3733 BTC [-] {3}

01:20:32 pete_dushenski: come and get us, because the window in which we pursued you closed when you turned 20.

01:20:38 pete_dushenski: at least anectodally

01:21:13 pete_dushenski: anecdotally*

01:21:33 mircea_popescu: wait, i thought it was the beard.

01:21:52 pete_dushenski: you're the one with the beard, man.

01:22:09 pete_dushenski: and the colonel sanders suit

01:22:25 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, 56 connections each on dulap and zulag.

01:22:32 pete_dushenski: blame americana advertising for ruining 'good things'

01:22:38 asciilifeform: much user.

01:22:57 asciilifeform: incitatus also runs, but is permanently ~50 blocks behind

01:23:00 pete_dushenski: in b-a, user select you.

01:23:20 mircea_popescu: was incitatus on home box ?

01:23:25 asciilifeform: oddly, no

01:23:31 asciilifeform: it is on a commercial farm.

01:23:45 asciilifeform: the home box, thus far, beats the shit out of all the others

01:24:03 asciilifeform: despite being a fanless little thing the size of a stack of 5 inch floppies.

01:24:13 pete_dushenski: https://lexingtonhistory.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/colonel-sanders.jpg << mp needs moar cane.

01:24:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1hDlK1X )

01:24:51 mircea_popescu: ...

01:24:55 asciilifeform: on the other hand, the pipe here is not cheap.

01:25:05 trinque: ethereum and the fucking... you know what, nevermind.

01:25:08 mircea_popescu: but i mean he got hair i don't, i got beard he doesn't ?

01:25:13 mircea_popescu: lol trinque

01:25:15 trinque: manhattan project my second ass

01:25:23 mircea_popescu: bitcoin OBVIOUSLY has flaws, unlike ethereum.

01:25:29 pete_dushenski: lel

01:25:48 trinque: thank god that vaguely russian kid is here to nuke the status quo, or whatever it is

01:25:53 mircea_popescu: because the things that are get the flaw talk, and the things that aren't.... you wouldnt wanna fud some kids' imaginarium nao wouldja./

01:26:14 trinque: burn it to the ground and make 'em watch

01:26:15 trinque: imagine that

01:26:17 trinque: :D

01:26:47 *: asciilifeform does not know precisely where buterin grew up, but does know that pretty much every kid from that generation dreamed of running a successful scam or racket

01:27:05 pete_dushenski: -great success-

01:27:22 asciilifeform: hey mr b is loaded

01:27:30 pete_dushenski: orly ?

01:27:35 asciilifeform: compared to yours truly

01:27:45 asciilifeform: for one thing, i'm not aware of him working for a living

01:27:46 pete_dushenski: hard to demonstrate

01:27:58 asciilifeform: pretty easy. which one drags ass to an office every day

01:28:00 pete_dushenski: i dun see vb buying stacks of pogos

01:28:01 asciilifeform: and which one doesn't

01:28:02 asciilifeform: QED.

01:28:33 asciilifeform: i bet his cock ring is worth more than a container of pogo.

01:28:52 pete_dushenski: see, now you're just letting your imagination run away from you

01:29:19 pete_dushenski: butering has cockrings like he has nipplerings

01:29:23 asciilifeform: to me, a fella who doesn't work and will never have to, is ipso facto rich

01:29:32 trinque: and he'll do what with it

01:29:38 pete_dushenski: 'never have to' is a long ass time

01:29:45 pete_dushenski: kid's, what, 21 ?

01:29:53 trinque: yeah, he's got plenty of time for more bad decisions

01:30:10 asciilifeform: at least he has the option of not making them

01:30:44 pete_dushenski: alas, an evening of spicy food beckons. i'm outtie. laters !

01:30:56 asciilifeform: i'm not even convinced that mr b knows he's a shill

01:31:08 asciilifeform: prolly just thinks 'i crapped this out and the grownups are so dumb! they love it'

01:31:51 asciilifeform: the kind of pauper2prince described in chuck palahniuk's 'survivor'

01:32:06 trinque: either way, if you anticipate ethereum going the way of other altcoins (or worse, look at the complexity of the thing), he'll have to live with that on his name forever.

01:32:24 asciilifeform: he'll be living with the golden toilet and the palaces forever.

01:32:42 trinque: if he does, that's somebody else's failing, for sure

01:32:45 asciilifeform: (or, more accurately, until the war)

01:32:51 trinque: yeah

01:33:03 asciilifeform: but i don't expect to see the other end of the war in person, either.

01:34:21 cazalla: i am hoping ethereum over takes litecoin in fake market cap just as its first halving occurs for extra lulz and butthurts

01:34:36 mircea_popescu: nah

01:34:39 mircea_popescu: it's been done before.

01:34:48 mircea_popescu: it'll take doge over in market cap

01:34:58 mircea_popescu: or whatever the scamcoin was before that.

01:35:46 *: mircea_popescu wonders if asciilifeform has pre-made file with the woe me stuff, or generates them on the fly.

01:35:59 cazalla: it already has over taken doge, only paycoin and that icelandic? coin has done so in the past

01:36:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generates

01:36:56 trinque: ^ has a woe-coprocessor

01:37:15 asciilifeform: nah just a nonmaskable woe interrupt

01:37:21 trinque: haha

01:37:26 asciilifeform: triggered by mention of folks who sleep ad libitum

01:38:12 trinque: speaking of woe, ben_vulpes, imma probably go drink at bonfire

01:38:24 trinque: stop by if ya want

01:38:39 asciilifeform: btw, i will have mircea_popescu know that prisoners, at least in usa, do ~not~ get to sleep ad libitum.

01:38:57 trinque: nope, gotta pretend to work at least part of the day

01:39:00 asciilifeform: they get wakeup. just like i do.

01:39:04 trinque: gets them ready to rejoin the pretend workforce

01:41:25 mircea_popescu: cazalla ie all teh scamcopins ? lol

01:43:14 mircea_popescu: anyway, im vaguely contemplating hiring an indiancandy to counter woe-shannonizer with the -1 * equivalent

01:50:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00063352 = 15.9647 BTC [-] {2}

01:58:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6006 @ 0.00063681 = 3.8247 BTC [+]

02:01:58 asciilifeform: l0l!

02:06:06 mod6: well... heh. I thought i'd get the chance to dive into your new email asciilifeform. But, guess it'll have to be tomorrow.

02:07:35 cazalla: http://i.imgur.com/LxfsCfc.jpg included in the photobook my missus and other folks bought from local play centre.. because that is what i always wanted, a photo of a photo of my son.. actually surprised they included a dvd minus watermarks all over the images

02:07:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TDZq3T )

02:14:11 asciilifeform: mod6: it is very very simple, really

02:14:28 asciilifeform: mod6: just a replay of patch history, but this time with 'vdiff' in place of conventional diff

02:48:07 asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov http://fraudsters.com/2015/fefeleaga/#comment-115039

02:48:08 assbot: Fefeleaga. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1hc9l59 )

02:48:08 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:49:23 trinque: ^ I greatly enjoy encountering this... actual culture

02:50:15 trinque: any I stumbled upon in youth was entirely by accident

02:50:54 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pWlVIYYRSE << related

02:50:55 assbot: MARYČKA MAGDÓNOVA @ Jaromír Nohavica # 82 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1hc9K7C )

02:51:48 *: asciilifeform interestingly, understands the spoken cz much quicker than written

02:54:28 asciilifeform: ^ mega-song

02:54:47 trinque: will check it out upon leaving bar

02:56:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19429 @ 0.00063886 = 12.4124 BTC [+] {3}

02:59:38 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQMqOIM-_zk << harsh americanized version

02:59:39 assbot: Patrick - Maryčka Magdonova + text - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6iBO5 )

03:01:39 trinque: jesus christ my sister just quoted The Prince and called it a quote from The Office

03:02:02 trinque: if the point about culture wasn't made well enough already...

03:02:17 trinque: re: being loved and/or feared

03:02:55 cazalla: asciilifeform, in your rotor guide, can you help me understand what step 6 asks me to do?

03:03:28 cazalla: specifically "and fill distfiles with tarballs, etc. as before." is this just all the patches?

03:03:36 asciilifeform: it means: make a stator

03:03:50 asciilifeform: and place it in rotor/stator

03:05:21 *: asciilifeform on a hardcore cz kick now

03:05:26 asciilifeform: and it's all jurov's fault!

03:11:30 asciilifeform: cazalla: if you have an existing stator, clean out the guts and use that.

03:24:21 asciilifeform: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Pomn%C3%ADk_Mary%C4%8Dky_Magdonov%C3%A9.jpg << mega-winner of a statue! betcha the kidz think the chick died as a partizan in ww2

03:24:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6m2nO )

03:25:05 asciilifeform: what are the belching smokestacks doing in the background ?!!

03:28:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is there a soviet mega-statuelith of fefeleaga somewhere ?

03:29:29 asciilifeform: wtf, http://radioenigmaromania.ro/blog/celebrul-personaj-fefeleaga-a-fost-cat-se-poate-de-real-afla-povestea-fascinanta-a-eroinei_26192.html

03:29:31 assbot: Celebrul personaj “Fefeleaga” a fost cât se poate de real. Află povestea fascinantă a eroinei! | Radio Enigma Romania ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mpog7i )

03:30:25 asciilifeform: ^ claims she was somebody's grand-grandmom, and only ! only 3 of her 6 offspring died

03:31:21 asciilifeform: this is again reminiscent of 'grave of the fireflies', autobiographical animation, author's father - unlike protagonist's - came back from jp navy; author - did not starve in an underground station. but he WISHED that he had

03:31:28 asciilifeform: so extra-depressionified the story

03:44:55 trinque: a guy I respect told me that one could maybe hope to change the world in one specific way, but that intending to change the world arbitrarily was the mark of hubris

03:45:11 trinque: relates imo to the Fefeleaga story

03:45:35 trinque: look at her abjection, and yet, what could you possibly do to prevent future Fefeleagas

03:46:41 trinque: not a goddamn thing. as (*clears his throat*) MJK of Tool wrote, "The universe is hostile, so impersonal. Devour to survive; so it is, so it's always been."

03:58:13 trinque: and since such thoughts are usually associated with a sort of brutal perspective, let me ask: which is worse, the mind which accepts the harsh reality of existing or the one which struggles against it?

03:59:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00065117 = 23.3444 BTC [+] {2}

04:02:55 asciilifeform: trinque: easy one

04:03:07 asciilifeform: trinque: the mind that invents death ray and spins round, round, round with it, 'for piglet!'

04:03:50 asciilifeform: ( canonical: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-06-2015#1176872 )

04:03:50 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 21:47:45; assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 23:43:58; asciilifeform: winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!'

04:07:40 asciilifeform: trinque: the thing about fefeleaga in my mind is that the stock off-the-shelf model of existence is a guaranteed suckfest.

04:07:47 asciilifeform: see mr.o, 'The great mass of human beings are not acutely selfish. After the age of about thirty they almost abandon the sense of being individuals at all ? and live chiefly for others, or are simply smothered under drudgery. But there is also the minority of gifted, willful people who are determined to live their own lives to the end'

04:08:21 asciilifeform: and 'The impulse to cling to youth at all costs, to attempt to preserve your sexual attraction, to see even in middle age a future for yourself and not merely for your children, is a thing of recent growth and has only precariously established itself. It will probably disappear again when our standard of living drops and our birth-rate rises.'

04:08:38 asciilifeform: fefeleaga is sop

04:08:54 asciilifeform: it is the other items on the menu which are experimental, high-tech oddities, like particle accelerator.

04:09:16 asciilifeform: yes, just like it.

04:13:42 trinque: asciilifeform: first off, goddamn if I didn't just bellow laughter across the bar at "for piglet!"

04:13:54 trinque: and indeed, fefeleaga is the baseline

04:14:13 trinque: this is what we will amount to absent intelligence, luck, etc

04:14:32 trinque: but then too, my end is just like hers

04:14:55 trinque: absent "purpose" or whatever, just pain and desolation

04:15:05 trinque: there is freedom in that, but I'm not ready to articulate it

04:16:44 trinque: that freedom is why the story made me smile, horrible though it is

04:17:04 cazalla: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/8chan-hosted-content-disappears-from-google-searches/

04:17:05 assbot: 8chan-hosted content disappears from Google searches | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1NhiF3E )

04:17:18 trinque: admitting death, perhaps we are freer to do as we please in life

04:17:42 trinque: cazalla: damnatio googoliae

04:25:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7980 @ 0.00065692 = 5.2422 BTC [+] {3}

04:33:03 gernika: Saddest stories I read in school were Bridge to Terebithia, and Where the Red Fern Grows. Not comparable to Fefeleaga I don't think.

04:34:57 trinque: it's why I enjoy good metal

04:35:04 trinque: death is always there, staring at you

04:35:11 trinque: anticipating you

04:36:12 gernika: My Dad did enjoy telling me the story of the Donner Party. One of his favorites.

04:36:19 trinque: sure, you'd do it

04:36:36 trinque: no matter how high a man ascends, he is also that

04:36:51 trinque: starve him, and he will eat

04:36:55 trinque: back him into a corner, and he will kill

04:37:31 trinque: hence we are a species that inhabits every continent, and sometimes space beyond

04:37:40 trinque: and hopefully much more of the latter, in the future

04:44:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.0006469 = 19.9245 BTC [-]

04:52:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10296 @ 0.00065468 = 6.7406 BTC [+]

05:00:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00064249 = 8.9949 BTC [-] {3}

05:33:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11075 @ 0.00064125 = 7.1018 BTC [-]

05:48:54 mircea_popescu: i dunno about that theory.

05:49:03 mircea_popescu: i dun think i'd eat person unless it tasted well.

05:51:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't say jew, it's bad!

05:52:11 mircea_popescu: <trinque> re: being loved and/or feared << it's actually a quote from that de niro film :D chaz palminteri says it :D

05:54:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of making statues for imaginary entities was not really well rooted.

05:55:11 mircea_popescu: and yes it was a real character. the guy didn't write fiction. he just wrote well and so plenty of his ethnographic notations read more like blogposts.

05:58:54 mircea_popescu: <trinque> this is what we will amount to absent intelligence, luck, etc << you will have quite the hill to conquer in showing the woman was bereft intelligence.

06:00:05 mircea_popescu: <cazalla> 8chan-hosted-content-disappears-from-google-searches/ << there's an iron curtain now falling on teh internets, <me inserts rest of clinton speech>. it's us and them.

06:01:59 mircea_popescu: it is ok to seek a twitter wrapper of x, just not x. because twitter gotta eat, and all that.

06:13:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20875 @ 0.00063832 = 13.3249 BTC [-]

06:32:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00065734 = 13.3769 BTC [+]

06:46:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.00065734 = 20.3118 BTC [+] {5}

07:31:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00065759 = 17.2289 BTC [+] {4}

09:10:39 shinohai: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/08/150813-uncontacted-amazon-tribes-peru-brazil/

09:10:40 assbot: Some Isolated Tribes in the Amazon Are Initiating Contact ... ( http://bit.ly/1LbEMWN )

09:12:01 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/TWL7uf7.png

09:13:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22931 @ 0.00063286 = 14.5121 BTC [-] {2}

09:24:15 cazalla: asciilifeform, ./bitcoind -myip=*.*.*.* -connect 195.211.54.59 throws error "couldn't connect to server", any ideas why?

09:24:35 cazalla: ah dw

09:28:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8336 @ 0.00065829 = 5.4875 BTC [+]

09:38:19 shinohai: @ BingoBoingo lulzy log

09:58:11 punkman: watched the new mad max flick yesterday, not too bad

09:59:15 punkman: slightly annoying that you can't hear anyone talk over all the explosions, unless you turn the volume way up

09:59:35 punkman: then again, not a lot of talking

10:02:56 shinohai: I bought some headphones last week, I may waych it with those.

10:07:57 punkman: !up Vexual

10:11:56 Vexual: not much fucking either punkman

10:14:06 Vexual: also probably caused by all the explosions

10:18:17 punkman: I expected titties but all I got was the babes derping about not being property

10:18:50 Vexual: i also expected titties

10:19:16 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/z3butAL.jpg

10:19:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LdvLiJ )

10:19:43 punkman: is that a cucumber?

10:19:46 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 the real cumber^

10:19:46 gribble: The operation succeeded.

10:20:13 shinohai: Yes that is, in fact, a cucumber with a condom stretched over it.

10:21:28 Vexual: cucumber aids kills

10:28:15 Vexual: halve it

10:29:22 Vexual: around 365 days to reward halving now

10:30:00 Vexual: give or take

10:30:46 punkman: ;;halfreward

10:30:47 gribble: Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Jul 27 22:10:36 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 49 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds.

10:31:33 Vexual: oh, that sounds closer

10:31:51 punkman: ;;bc,bull

10:31:52 gribble: Next Price Estimate: 292.523 | Next Price In About 3 days, 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 34 seconds

10:32:36 Vexual: how long till alf stops crying poor?

10:33:55 Vexual: not until he only has more bitcoin than 5.7 billion

10:34:58 Vexual: (other peoplew)

10:35:26 Vexual: more than 6 is not enough

10:35:38 punkman: s.nsa already has that

10:35:52 Vexual: has what?

10:36:01 Vexual: oh yes more than 6

10:37:52 Vexual: nevermind

10:38:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30837 @ 0.0006618 = 20.4079 BTC [+] {6}

10:39:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00066737 = 6.8739 BTC [+]

10:39:32 punkman: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/15/your-money/airbnb-horror-story-points-to-need-for-precautions.html

10:39:35 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1LdwG2E )

10:39:35 punkman: !up Vexual

10:46:55 punkman: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/349/6249/677.full

10:46:58 assbot: Modified yeast produce opiates from sugar ... ( http://bit.ly/1LdxaWz )

10:47:34 Vexual: thats better than staying with a murderous tranny from the internet

10:51:18 punkman: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/opinion/sunday/how-california-is-winning-the-drought.html

10:51:21 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1HNx7ZV )

10:52:17 punkman: "Some California farmers have turned to drip irrigation to reduce their water use." << ah welcome to state of the art in 1970 greece

10:52:21 shinohai: Vexual: Do you have a helpful photograph of what a murderous tranny looks like ?

10:52:37 Vexual: no

10:52:51 shinohai: bummer

10:52:56 Vexual: youll need to take other precuations

10:53:12 shinohai: There goes like half of backpage

10:58:21 Vexual: big subsidies for putting in polypipe here punk

10:59:02 punkman: water reserves running out?

10:59:14 Vexual: place is one big desert

10:59:49 Vexual: of course most of the farmers who can use it effectively camere from greece in the 70s

11:01:56 Vexual: sure, more polypipe

11:12:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55700 @ 0.00067933 = 37.8387 BTC [+] {7}

11:13:17 punkman: up it goes

11:13:56 cazalla: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/407894,microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware.aspx

11:13:59 assbot: Microsoft can disable your pirated games and illegal hardware - PC & Tech Authority ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ldz4qq )

11:53:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00066951 = 10.913 BTC [-]

12:17:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6944 @ 0.00066951 = 4.6491 BTC [-]

12:37:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48572 @ 0.00069499 = 33.7571 BTC [+] {6}

12:41:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74076 @ 0.00066515 = 49.2717 BTC [-] {5}

13:07:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10865 @ 0.00069764 = 7.5799 BTC [+] {3}

13:56:11 BingoBoingo: Oh, yet another party copying MP http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150815113053&mode=expanded&count=1

13:56:13 assbot: The OpenBSD Foundation Announces New Silver Donor: Yandex ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYuRoQ )

14:03:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64907 @ 0.00069047 = 44.8163 BTC [-]

14:04:44 shinohai: lol YANDEX

14:04:52 shinohai: teh Google of Rusha

14:17:17 BingoBoingo: shinohai: I personally think this is the same process that slowly lead even Thermos to denounce Gavin, just... once enough time had passed to make MP espoused sanity seem original to the uninitiated

14:18:08 shinohai: I was rather shocked tbh. reddit has come out w/pitchferks

14:40:40 shinohai: http://redd.it/3gskm1

15:02:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73486 @ 0.00067087 = 49.2996 BTC [-]

15:21:21 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D9C5494A7B03BBA6E8699AF3EBACA1A2E3ED77906921EB829571A5AEF2623FBC

15:21:34 asciilifeform: gcd==519691042937; Andrew Orr <andrew@andreworr.ca>

15:21:44 asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes where's the bot?

15:21:44 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:22:43 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238523 << and 'unknown soldier' is what ?

15:22:43 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 05:54:33; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of making statues for imaginary entities was not really well rooted.

15:24:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238525 << he might have been thinking of something else, not intelligence, possibly this: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-07-2015#1193609

15:24:04 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 05:58:54; mircea_popescu: <trinque> this is what we will amount to absent intelligence, luck, etc << you will have quite the hill to conquer in showing the woman was bereft intelligence.

15:24:04 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:35:21; ascii_field: interestingly, old norse, even, had a very specific word for this trait

15:25:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238536 << maybe because it's actually 195.211.154.159 ?

15:25:00 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 09:24:15; cazalla: asciilifeform, ./bitcoind -myip=*.*.*.* -connect 195.211.54.59 throws error "couldn't connect to server", any ideas why?

15:28:12 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238532 << what i'd like to know is what became of the famous yanomamo tribe. last i heard, they traded a load of animal skins for a crate of shotguns, and that was the last anybody heard of'em..

15:28:12 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 09:10:39; shinohai: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/08/150813-uncontacted-amazon-tribes-peru-brazil/

15:29:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238564 << when i get to shoot the alarm clock. and never buy a new one.

15:29:09 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 10:32:36; Vexual: how long till alf stops crying poor?

15:31:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238595 << when boiling the proverbial frog, when it gets cooked enough you can just turn up the heat to whatever. srsly, they included a keylogger and admitted to it. why should they not also rape you in every other possible hole, and drill new ones as desired ?

15:31:01 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 11:13:56; cazalla: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/407894,microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware.aspx

15:36:02 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/AsK2NvC.png

15:36:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeRcxO )

15:51:30 asciilifeform: https://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/cryptography-and-quicksand << lulzies

15:51:32 assbot: Cryptography And Quicksand | Gödel's Lost Letter and P=NP ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYE28L )

15:52:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78453 @ 0.00067087 = 52.6318 BTC [-]

15:56:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^

15:56:35 asciilifeform: i just love these gloriously educated folks who carry on pretending we don't exist.

15:58:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63500 @ 0.00067038 = 42.5691 BTC [-] {3}

16:00:55 asciilifeform: https://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/area-51 << lulzy

16:00:58 assbot: Area 51 | Gödel's Lost Letter and P=NP ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYFckM )

16:07:13 asciilifeform: not a bad www though.

16:07:22 asciilifeform: it is so rare to meet with folks who aren't howlingly retarded.

16:14:40 mod6: <+shinohai> ;;later tell mod6 the real cumber^ << ahhaha

16:15:08 shinohai: cucumber.io can thank me for the marketing tip later

16:37:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00067299 = 9.1863 BTC [+]

16:48:41 mod6: heheh.

16:49:06 jurov: http://hiddenlolcdn.com/i/43526.gif :) nsfw

16:49:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ITqkj8 )

16:51:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17390 @ 0.00067073 = 11.664 BTC [-]

16:51:39 mod6: So, if anyone wants to try out these automated cucumber tests on v0.5.4-TEST2 w/rotor ; I have some recipes that work on: ubuntu 10.04, deb6/7/8 and gentoo. Just send me a PM and I'll work with you on it.

16:53:10 mod6: Meanwhile, now I'm gonna see if I can figure out this new versioning email. The hard part is going to be having to verify everything posted, and re-writing all of our documentation.

16:54:38 mod6: asciilifeform: Are you planning on posting each patch (that we've since included in rel1, rel2) in a separate email to the list with a detached sig and included sha512?

16:55:02 mod6: Sounds like from your email, that's pretty much the plan...

16:55:08 mod6: Just curious.

17:04:59 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> https://i.imgur.com/TWL7uf7.png << the reason HE can't have "his own opinions" is simply that he's hounding her. just like used car, insurance and aluminum sides salesmen can't have their own opinions.

17:05:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ITs3VQ )

17:06:10 BingoBoingo: Oh, you though people who posted caps like that to reddit/voad/twatter would be anything other than derpy siding salesmen?

17:07:26 mircea_popescu: well in this case he's some dude, speaking enligsh on a gadget. so... yeah, he's the sort that begs for sex.

17:07:53 punkman: he only begs ironically

17:10:22 mircea_popescu: oh ok then

17:10:24 BingoBoingo: Of course

17:10:25 mircea_popescu: /sarcasm

17:12:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, the dudes that women hound are just as retarded. take me for instance : there's a shitton of opinions woman can't hold. recently met a very sweet girl, smart, decent figure. she's an argentine, so her only real chance to eat is to work for the government - there's really no productive activity going on here, much like it were say detroit. so she was some derpy "social worker" and aiming to either seniorize into

17:12:23 mircea_popescu: the civil corps or maybe run for office as she ages. like you know, hillary.

17:12:54 mircea_popescu: obviously that in that context, her choices are between depression and socialist ideas. so understandably, she had a lot of notions about "the people" and "the good".

17:13:03 mircea_popescu: notions which also happen to be intolerable. such is lyf.

17:14:43 mircea_popescu: she got so heartbroken she deleted her whatever profile etc. but wtf am i to do, i won't hang out with some chick that actually thinks "the people bla bla". just like that chick won't hang out with some dude that's either short or thinks the boo boo about fatties. cuz she can.

17:22:06 mircea_popescu: punkman> "Some California farmers have turned to drip irrigation?to reduce their water use." << ah welcome to state of the art in 1970 greece << word. i was rather impressed with what "intensive agriculture" meant down there.

17:22:47 mircea_popescu: damn, 67 huh ? meat today!

17:23:51 mod6: asciilifeform: ok cool! rel1.patch and rel2-pre.patch do apply cleanly to all of the existing patches

17:24:15 mod6: now, I need to just validate these hashes.

17:24:23 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and 'unknown soldier' is what ? << there is no doubt that at least one soldier somewhere existed, right ? this is not abstract but synthetic, like a statue to an apple. "which apple".

17:25:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238649 << detached sig, absolutely yes. posted as separate email each - absolutely fucking not

17:25:22 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 16:54:38; mod6: asciilifeform: Are you planning on posting each patch (that we've since included in rel1, rel2) in a separate email to the list with a detached sig and included sha512?

17:26:46 mircea_popescu: so it's a rebase basically

17:27:26 asciilifeform: approximately.

17:28:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.000665 = 9.4098 BTC [-] {2}

17:28:08 asciilifeform: folks were demanding a thing which you can ask 'find me the longest chain signed by mod6' etc

17:28:18 asciilifeform: so that's what i'm writing.

17:28:50 mircea_popescu: nothin' wrong with that.

17:28:51 asciilifeform: the basic unit of life in 'v' (apparatus) is the vdiff (output of vdiff.sh)

17:29:02 asciilifeform: the latter is included in the latest ml post

17:29:08 mircea_popescu: V is particularly apt.

17:29:11 asciilifeform: and is also in the log somewhere.

17:29:17 mircea_popescu: name something evvie while at it >D

17:30:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238664 << wai wat, i thought mircea_popescu's hobby was to pick this wildlife up from the streets and reformat it

17:30:15 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 17:14:43; mircea_popescu: she got so heartbroken she deleted her whatever profile etc. but wtf am i to do, i won't hang out with some chick that actually thinks "the people bla bla". just like that chick won't hang out with some dude that's either short or thinks the boo boo about fatties. cuz she can.

17:30:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not at her age.

17:31:00 mircea_popescu: it works for 19yos, it is not worth the hassle with 29yos.

17:31:14 mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, one email is ok by me. just was curious what you had in mind.

17:31:15 asciilifeform: logical.

17:31:47 asciilifeform: mod6: what i have in mind is that this ends up being a box where you can drop in a sig (l1 !) and, optionally, one or more patches

17:31:56 asciilifeform: sig can be for existing patch in the list

17:32:08 asciilifeform: patch must be accompanied with sig

17:32:27 asciilifeform: (pairwise)

17:32:36 mircea_popescu: sounds about right.

17:33:04 asciilifeform: then everyone who did what mod6 did and verified that the universe of patches in 'orchestra' is actually identical to the previously published set but for the antecedent hashes,

17:33:11 asciilifeform: can submit sigs for them

17:33:24 asciilifeform: (with the proviso that he has read, grasped, each)

17:33:43 asciilifeform: ideally someone who isn't me has also verified the antecedents

17:34:01 asciilifeform: which entails doing exactly, word for word, what i did to make 'orchestra'

17:35:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, from the loltrons,

17:35:34 asciilifeform: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010235.html

17:35:35 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT 0.11A ... ( http://bit.ly/1WtlaUk )

17:35:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im pretty sure hanbot is doing exactly this

17:36:09 asciilifeform: and https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-is-bitcoin-forking-d647312d22c1

17:36:10 assbot: Why is Bitcoin forking? — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1WtloLn )

17:36:25 asciilifeform: ^ hearn unzips and begins

17:36:25 mod6: http://dpaste.com/1QNT15C.txt << vdiff.sh seems to do what I thought it did. so thats cool.

17:36:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WtlqTn )

17:36:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no idea why retards seem to have all flocked to "medium.com" but hey.

17:37:03 asciilifeform: dun think i've seen it before

17:37:30 mircea_popescu: !s medium.com

17:37:31 assbot: 71 results for 'medium.com' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=medium.com

17:37:35 asciilifeform: hm.

17:37:43 asciilifeform: 'Congratulations Gavin and Mike on completing the patch to support larger block sizes. Although we all have ideological disagreements from time to time, two fundamental values of the Bitcoin community are freedom of choice and transparency of communication. Your work represents a big step in returning the power over Bitcoin's future back to the community where it belongs.' << l0l!!

17:37:45 mircea_popescu: at least 80% of those are patently retarded.

17:37:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who is this ?

17:38:04 asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h424p/why_is_bitcoin_forking << some tard

17:38:05 assbot: Why is Bitcoin forking? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ffvPjM )

17:38:20 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: what i have in mind is that this ends up being a box where you can drop in a sig (l1 !) and, optionally, one or more patches << yeah, this is good

17:38:25 mircea_popescu: so basically some tard wanted to pretend like he's important.

17:38:40 asciilifeform: finally mustered the balls to pull the trigger

17:38:40 mircea_popescu: why am i reading some tard's pretense, no matter how he thinks he's "hooked it" into the events.

17:38:58 asciilifeform: idk, asked 'who was this'

17:39:05 asciilifeform: answer 'some tard'

17:39:08 mircea_popescu: to quote some people - this is great for bitcoin.

17:39:44 mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/user/Peter__R << some tard that economizes on copy.

17:39:46 assbot: overview for Peter__R ... ( http://bit.ly/1ffvYni )

17:40:09 asciilifeform: filipino

17:40:17 mircea_popescu: anyway. nobody cares. in the most literal sense of that word.

17:40:28 mircea_popescu: they can go fight eth for doge supremacy or w/e it is retards do.

17:40:56 mircea_popescu: "oh this failed project is so exciting - look, it even overtook last quarter's failed project on the failed projects list!!11"

17:41:06 asciilifeform: meanwhile my nodez are running hotter than ever

17:41:25 shinohai: How many nodes u running?

17:41:30 asciilifeform: same as before

17:41:33 asciilifeform: 2 and 1/2

17:41:44 mircea_popescu: time to put up some more nodes huh ?

17:42:00 asciilifeform: there's another but i gotta travel to a somewhat distant place to plug the bugger in

17:42:32 asciilifeform: but what we really need is moar nodez on serious commercial boxes

17:42:33 mircea_popescu: ima bring a few up.

17:42:44 mod6: asciilifeform: here's what i've done so far with V, http://dpaste.com/2P6A59Y.txt

17:42:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WtnjiU )

17:43:00 mircea_popescu: incidentally, jurov and anyone else who might care : i will be wiping the archive of that hacker team thing. if you want copies of anything etc get it now.

17:43:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if not urgent, leave it up till monday night

17:43:53 asciilifeform: or not. i think i got what i needed

17:44:00 mircea_popescu: wasn't gonna do it right now.

17:44:38 mircea_popescu: but it's on teh list, it'll get done eventually, an' i know people have a habit to prevaricate.

17:44:40 asciilifeform: mod6: nice script and it will do until i'm done with the actual mechanism

17:45:06 *: mircea_popescu really likes the name V

17:45:15 mircea_popescu: a better name could not be had, for what this thing is and does.

17:45:20 *: asciilifeform likes short names for frequently used machines

17:45:49 mircea_popescu: "signatures offer the means to meaning, and for they who can listen, the enunciation of truth."

17:46:05 *: asciilifeform currently racking brain over how to make the thing verify in better than O(N^2)

17:46:16 mircea_popescu: why ?

17:46:17 asciilifeform: it gets annoying, fast

17:46:32 mircea_popescu: let me rephrase.

17:46:42 asciilifeform: because every single operation involves walking EVERY sig FOR EVERY patch

17:46:48 asciilifeform: because no other state.

17:46:49 mircea_popescu: why do you think this is possible and if you have any reason to think so why aren't you fixing bitcoin then

17:47:18 mircea_popescu: wait. for every patch in the line, right ?

17:47:22 asciilifeform: it is possible if one does something jurovish and requires, e.g., sigs to include what they are sigs for in the filename or the like

17:47:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mno, for every patch and every sig ever made.

17:47:38 mircea_popescu: ah that's nonsense.

17:47:40 asciilifeform: aha

17:47:51 asciilifeform: this is a place we end up in because pgp is retarded

17:47:57 asciilifeform: and one can't get a meaningful hash out of a sig

17:47:59 asciilifeform: (file hash)

17:48:23 mircea_popescu: we sadly have been overtaken by events in this point. i'd have much preferred to start work on this after the decanter work for "new pgp" was done.

17:48:31 asciilifeform: same

17:49:23 jurov: or do the same as with diff - add hash of content into every clearsigned doc

17:49:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178517

17:49:24 assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 22:59:59; jurov: mod6 they append date and whatnot to data prior to hashing anyway

17:49:34 asciilifeform: jurov: NO

17:49:39 asciilifeform: jurov: no mutilations.

17:49:42 mircea_popescu: incidentally, re <BingoBoingo> shinohai: I personally think this is the same process that slowly lead even Thermos to denounce Gavin, just... once enough time had passed to make MP espoused sanity seem original to the uninitiated <<< do not imagine that ms, yandex et all did not know same things i know. obviously trhey do, but they also had hoped they're somehow favoured sons. because "Terrorists will never do that, tr

17:49:42 mircea_popescu: ust me".

17:49:42 asciilifeform: because FUCKTARDED

17:50:02 mircea_popescu: bitcoin changes everything, of course, and outside the heaped plate of humilation lasagna it allowed me to forcefeed bob beck,

17:50:13 mircea_popescu: you can admire all the extra bezzle it forced microsoft & all to expend.

17:50:22 mircea_popescu: which, yes, it's a great thing for teh free world.

17:50:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hash in the doc is not a bad idea, eh ?

17:50:48 asciilifeform: of the doc!!?!??!!

17:50:51 mircea_popescu: yes.

17:51:10 asciilifeform: with 'escaped dashes', the whole shit soup?

17:51:16 asciilifeform: how about a big fat No.

17:51:34 mircea_popescu: looky : when i signed a piece of paper i nulled out the empty spaces.

17:51:44 mircea_popescu: a checksum's not a bad idea, why do you think it is a bad idea ?

17:51:51 asciilifeform: because it doesn't belong in-band.

17:51:53 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ hearn unzips and begins << So begins project Scott Tenorman

17:51:57 asciilifeform: because a file is unitary.

17:52:05 asciilifeform: because motherfucking unix philosophy.

17:52:12 mircea_popescu: so i can't include a hash of the document i nthe document.

17:52:29 asciilifeform: because what you end up with is two files who are somehow trying to sit in one chair

17:52:46 asciilifeform: now you can't sha512sum on the file, have to put it through a cutter

17:52:56 mircea_popescu: so by this theory, we should have one phone network for the network and another phone network for the control codes ?

17:53:08 asciilifeform: all modern phone networks actually do this.

17:53:19 asciilifeform: (not separate fiber, mind you, but may as well.)

17:53:20 mircea_popescu: can i include checksums in packets ?

17:53:26 mircea_popescu: or must have tcp packets and udp checksums separate ?

17:53:34 asciilifeform: l0l

17:53:37 mircea_popescu: well ?

17:53:58 asciilifeform: unix utils work as depicted in, e.g., vdiff.sh, deadly-simple, BECAUSE file is a solid abstraction

17:54:09 asciilifeform: can treat as stream

17:54:16 mircea_popescu: hm.

17:54:21 asciilifeform: if you want to break this, you get 100x the code and the gnomes.

17:54:29 asciilifeform: i ain't doing it.

17:54:41 mircea_popescu: either i've been very stupid for many years or you're just being nuts over here.

17:54:44 mircea_popescu: ima have to meditate on this.

17:54:45 asciilifeform: not without a much better reason than 'pgp breathes through its mouth'

17:54:59 jurov: asciilifeform: yo want to stream pgp signed stuff_

17:55:02 jurov: ?

17:55:09 jurov: i don't get it too

17:55:27 asciilifeform: jurov: i get to checksum a patch by patch | sha512sum or basta.

17:56:02 jurov: patch | tail -n +1 | sha512sum

17:56:02 asciilifeform: the pgp signature thing is fucktarded, can't believe for how long we've put up with it

17:56:15 asciilifeform: jurov: how about line endings

17:56:24 asciilifeform: now you have to CARE ABOUT THE INSIDES

17:56:26 asciilifeform: fuck that.

17:56:30 jurov: okay i give up.. what now?

17:56:32 asciilifeform: !up cryptonaut420

17:57:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well obviouisly nobody ever used pgp for any serious purpose.

17:57:15 asciilifeform: jurov: now i have to solve the problem. like i solved others before. but this one's gonna take some time, it isn't a nice clean shot in the head, but more of a slow isis beheading

17:57:22 asciilifeform: gonna take a while, this sawing

17:57:38 mircea_popescu: i think im going to translate an ancient romanian article, i can not begin to believe how fucking apt it is. i thoight it was purely a romanian thing.

17:57:46 *: asciilifeform looks forward to reading

17:58:23 mircea_popescu: but it is apparent, from the apoplectic reactions, and glaring when you look at the shards together, that the same jerking around is both behind the openbsd story and the pgp story.

17:58:26 asciilifeform: this one's a '3-pipe case', in the words of sherlock holms

17:59:11 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/fefeleaga/#comment-115043 << see, now i can't see this in any other terms than, "ended up caring about insides"

17:59:12 assbot: Fefeleaga. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wtskbl )

17:59:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thought it was about http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916

17:59:20 assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.

17:59:38 mircea_popescu: whereas i for a very long time have held the firm "fuck you, the text i write, i write with no consideration as to what you might misunderstand of it"

18:00:10 mircea_popescu: which also happens to be the right thing, incidentally.

18:00:14 asciilifeform: no shit.

18:00:53 mircea_popescu: fear the power of the cult. the deepest errors can survive all of five minutes in the charged atmosphere.

18:01:27 *: mircea_popescu contemplates the strange notion that every time he included hashes in stream he was actually doing the wrong thing.

18:01:40 asciilifeform: speaking of czech language, has jurov ever played the most famous msdos adventure game of his country, 'edna' ?

18:01:46 asciilifeform: beautiful thing

18:01:51 jurov: no

18:02:26 asciilifeform: witch, vaguely babayaga-like, walks around collecting clues re: where to find ingredients for revenge potion against the king (who banished her). most of the dialogue is in rhyme

18:02:31 asciilifeform: entirely untranslatable

18:02:34 asciilifeform: so it was never translated.

18:02:37 asciilifeform: not even to ru.

18:03:15 jurov: http://www.amazon.de/bhv-Distribution-Edna-bricht-aus/dp/3828761631 but to german?

18:03:17 assbot: Edna bricht aus: Pc: Amazon.de: Games ... ( http://bit.ly/1ffz1vy )

18:03:24 asciilifeform: http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/edna

18:03:25 assbot: Edna :: DJ OldGames ... ( http://bit.ly/1ffz1Mn )

18:03:31 jurov: trying to find it

18:03:53 asciilifeform: jurov: the de one appears to be different item ?

18:04:21 asciilifeform: my link has the w4r3z iirc

18:05:07 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEZ2UQ3SRWM yes looks beautiful

18:05:08 assbot: Edna, PC DOS (1997) [CZ] - Gameplay + CD Audio Music - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ffztKu )

18:05:24 asciilifeform: mega-music also

18:05:32 jurov: somehow never came around

18:05:42 asciilifeform: really represents all that was lost

18:05:50 asciilifeform: in the old world of games where the authors gave a shit

18:11:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11960 @ 0.00067073 = 8.0219 BTC [+]

18:14:25 mircea_popescu: ;;calc ((100 + (203-100)/2)/100)/7.6125

18:14:26 gribble: 0.199014778325

18:15:09 asciilifeform: wat

18:15:20 mircea_popescu: eulora stuff.

18:15:22 asciilifeform: ah

18:15:44 mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-08-15.log.html#t18:10:56

18:15:46 assbot: #Eulora log for Saturday, 2015-08-15 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WtvCeu )

18:15:52 mircea_popescu: how any lisper can keep away from it is anyone's guess by this point.

18:16:02 asciilifeform: very easily

18:16:06 asciilifeform: by, say, not owning a 3d card

18:16:07 mircea_popescu: but it may be that lisp is not actually useful in practice!11111!!1

18:19:33 *: BingoBoingo though MP may have been doing math related to producing a lucite cast of Obola's recutm to place in the Hearnia's urinary bladder

18:19:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238834 << not catastrophically wrong, but more of a microscope-hammer sorta wrong

18:19:44 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 18:01:27; *: mircea_popescu contemplates the strange notion that every time he included hashes in stream he was actually doing the wrong thing.

18:20:52 asciilifeform: 'unix philosophy' had an actual meaning at one point, and was a very promising thing

18:20:54 mircea_popescu: i feel like, sensibly, palpably smarter today.

18:25:02 jurov: asciilifeform: good you haven't seen mpex statjson output

18:25:46 asciilifeform: jurov: actually i might have, back when i briefly had an acct

18:26:04 jurov: back then there wan no statjson

18:26:06 asciilifeform: then no.

18:26:07 jurov: *was no

18:35:08 asciilifeform: 56/59/27 (dulap/zulag/incitatus), all 3 fully synced

18:35:12 asciilifeform: heavy day.

18:35:31 asciilifeform: (the latter pretty much never gets more than a dozen connections at one time)

18:38:48 asciilifeform: andrew@andreworr.ca is pretty typical, apparently, '32-bit mirror slider'

18:39:56 asciilifeform: his other modulus will pop up soon, also

18:40:06 asciilifeform: it, too, is 'magical'

18:40:28 asciilifeform: (who wants, can paste it into a python repl and hex(........) to see what i mean)

18:41:07 asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaaand....

18:41:10 asciilifeform: drumroll........

18:41:11 asciilifeform: https://nmap.org/nsedoc/lib/bitcoin.html

18:41:13 assbot: bitcoin NSE Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxizmp )

18:41:24 asciilifeform: ^ Patrik Karlsson <patrik@cqure.net> Andrew Orr <andrew@andreworr.ca>

18:41:27 asciilifeform: authors.

18:42:08 asciilifeform: (all this re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238611 )

18:42:08 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 15:21:21; asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D9C5494A7B03BBA6E8699AF3EBACA1A2E3ED77906921EB829571A5AEF2623FBC

18:42:42 asciilifeform: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=andrew%40andreworr.ca&op=index

18:42:43 assbot: Search results for 'ca andreworr andrew' ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxiIX3 )

18:42:50 asciilifeform: ^ exactly typical for the 'magic 98'

18:43:27 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/UuotP

18:43:28 assbot: Search results for 'ca andreworr andrew' ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxiOxC )

18:43:42 asciilifeform: ^ mirror.

18:44:26 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/R6ln5 and https://archive.is/Jskeb

18:44:27 assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x0947bbf3e954df04 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxiTBA )

18:44:27 assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x91e594358f264832 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxiTBC )

18:44:36 asciilifeform: ^ payloads.

18:48:36 asciilifeform: http://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20110620/667febb1/attachment.html

18:48:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxjkf4 )

18:48:58 asciilifeform: and http://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20110623/4a44cbaa/attachment.htm

18:48:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxjovm )

18:49:03 asciilifeform: (re: mr orr)

18:49:49 asciilifeform: http://blog.skullspace.ca/2011/02/skullspace-winnipeg-inc_3.html

18:49:50 assbot: SkullSpace Winnipeg: Skullspace Winnipeg Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxjwev )

18:52:52 asciilifeform: unlike mircea_popescu, i do not presently believe that ~all~ of these folks have been shot with the stupid-cannon

18:53:00 asciilifeform: at some point one of them will read this log and write in

18:55:06 mircea_popescu: aha.

18:56:56 asciilifeform: somehow i suspect that most of these people would give more of a fuck if the city phonebook (which no one i'm aware of uses for anything but kindling...) were to list a nigerian spammer's phone # instead of their own

18:57:40 mircea_popescu: doubt it.

18:58:00 asciilifeform: mr orr doesn't look like the usual vegetable to me

18:59:41 mircea_popescu: the vegetable quality is a thing apart.

18:59:52 asciilifeform: how's that

18:59:54 mircea_popescu: they're all vegetal. the smart and the dumb, the tall and the short, the ones with tits and the ones without

19:00:04 mircea_popescu: being a vegetable is unrelated to any other measurable quality.

19:00:24 mircea_popescu: it's just buying into this "being civilised means inhabiting the world of dreams"

19:00:27 mircea_popescu: like an opium habit.

19:00:37 asciilifeform: is this rather about whether fella has woken up to the salient fact of his time ?

19:00:42 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:00:44 asciilifeform: (e.g., in orwell's, coming of ww2)

19:01:10 mircea_popescu: no, in orwells - that he is insufficient, and he is a representative memberf of an inssuficient generation.

19:01:13 mircea_popescu: this, he never woke up to.

19:01:22 asciilifeform: sad thing is, he kinda did

19:01:32 asciilifeform: but didn't feel like eating his pistol quite yet, so made up various stories in his head

19:01:32 mircea_popescu: i distrust kindas.

19:01:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71500 @ 0.00070022 = 50.0657 BTC [+] {11}

19:01:38 mircea_popescu: rioght ?

19:01:46 mircea_popescu: and the kids coming after that just built on the habit.

19:01:54 mircea_popescu: the daydreaming children of insufficient parents.

19:02:07 mircea_popescu: omfg 70!

19:02:10 mircea_popescu: MWOOT

19:03:14 asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats

19:03:18 gribble: Current Blocks: 370004 | Current Difficulty: 5.269984240934701E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 370943 | Next Difficulty In: 939 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 10 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

19:03:24 asciilifeform: happy odometer rollover.

19:03:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122800 @ 0.00068782 = 84.4643 BTC [-]

19:03:40 mircea_popescu: purdy cool

19:04:20 *: asciilifeform has a separate display panel for the nodez, if anyone wondered, yes

19:04:46 *: BingoBoingo actually kinda surprised Hearn didn't wait until the first weekend of September to drop his trousers for a fencing contest. Shitgnommery was starting to get a pattern.

19:05:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for some reason i thought that his 'if enough of us, let's open fire' turd was released ages ago

19:05:33 asciilifeform: a bit surprised to learn that it just now went out.

19:05:53 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Idea of it was, then he released some binaries earlier this week for turd platforms. Now declaration of forking.

19:07:05 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h424p/why_is_bitcoin_forking/cu4332k

19:07:07 assbot: PhiMinD comments on Why is Bitcoin forking? ... ( http://bit.ly/1NiUl1h )

19:07:46 asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r03i/mike_hearn_is_saying_fork_might_ignore_the << linked, lulzy

19:07:47 assbot: Mike Hearn is saying Fork might ignore the longest chain! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1NiUp0Y )

19:07:59 mircea_popescu: it would have to.

19:08:05 mircea_popescu: how else ?

19:08:13 asciilifeform: tame/retarded minerz ?

19:08:19 mircea_popescu: lol right.

19:08:30 asciilifeform: hey, no shortage of the latter

19:08:36 mircea_popescu: count the eth mining power.

19:08:39 asciilifeform: as suggested by the july 4 incident

19:08:45 mircea_popescu: no shortage of tyhe latter ON REDDIT

19:08:55 mircea_popescu: or any other place where the bar to entry is not as high as to exclude the urban poor.

19:08:59 asciilifeform: nah, in the land of the cat&dog eaters

19:09:12 mircea_popescu: the chinese do learn.

19:09:20 mircea_popescu: even if they have to be beaten with a nailed plank first

19:09:23 mircea_popescu: they do learn.

19:09:38 mircea_popescu: not so much can be said about the anglos.

19:11:16 *: asciilifeform can't wait for the first tard block

19:11:44 mircea_popescu: you are not alone.

19:12:13 mircea_popescu: it will be absolutely great if they scam any exchange into accepting their shit as bitcoin, or otherwise if any retards pay money for xtc.

19:12:21 mircea_popescu: for i have some bridges for sale.

19:14:28 *: BingoBoingo suggest shorting instrument be refered to a TexasCoin or TXCoin for the phillipino's lulz and dyslexia

19:15:42 asciilifeform: l0l xtc

19:15:46 asciilifeform: extacy

19:18:26 *: BingoBoingo going out to pick up some venom and bile. I can't even today.

19:20:45 mircea_popescu: shorting instrument my foot. it can't be shorted for the same reason you can't short random idiot's imaginary girlfriend.

19:20:51 mircea_popescu: he only buys from himself.

19:24:08 asciilifeform: zulag shall down for maintenance for most of today, starting 30 seconds ago.

19:28:10 kakobrekla: anyone running a tally on last blocks supporting increase?

19:43:32 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Third graph http://xtnodes.com/ so far 0

19:43:33 assbot: XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1U879cH )

19:44:39 kakobrekla: 0, really ?

19:45:15 BingoBoingo: Looking that way with blocks. Gotta remember Chicoms mine SPV, prolly haven't fiddled that string yet

19:46:41 BingoBoingo: http://etramping.com/rather-go-hungry-eat-filipino-food-again/

19:46:43 assbot: I Would Rather Go Hungry Than Eat Filipino Street Food Again! - eTramping.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ITJZzC )

19:49:08 BingoBoingo: "We were open to new things, we were willing to eat anything locals gave us and we were so curious about new dishes. That has changed after 4 days of stomachache, dizziness and feeling overtired and bloated." << Made for Redditing

19:56:58 mircea_popescu: more of the "lowest common denominator is representatives for groups" ideology crashing on the jagged shores of reality.

19:57:09 mircea_popescu: i was curious about dishes too, but i didn't expect to find them in the gutter.

19:58:19 BingoBoingo: After research Phils does not seem like a destination to linger long when exit comes, if it even still makes the list by the time I get out.

20:19:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58844 @ 0.00071154 = 41.8699 BTC [+]

20:24:47 BingoBoingo: !up King_Rex

20:25:05 King_Rex: ty

20:28:02 BingoBoingo: King_Rex: Thoughts on Hearn dropping his pants today?

20:29:49 King_Rex: link? does this mean he'll stop talking?

20:30:17 mircea_popescu: even max keiser is still talking.

20:30:28 BingoBoingo: scroll up, no it means he's forking.

20:32:03 King_Rex: oh noes?

20:33:11 mod6: asciilifeform: I have successfully reproduced the rel1.patch on my own now with the same matching antecedent/new hashes. I have script that reproduces this all the way up through v0.5.3.1 -- will continue on and do the same for up through v0.5.4 before let everyone see. But, so far, so good.

20:34:08 King_Rex: mircea_popescu i read Fefeleaga, thanks for posting

20:34:12 mircea_popescu: cheers.

20:39:47 BingoBoingo: Hello bitstein, been a while

20:40:08 bitstein: Yea, mostly lurkin these days.

20:40:55 bitstein: Didn't see this in the logs. Someone claiming to be Satoshi posted on the bitcoin-dev list: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010238.html

20:40:56 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT Fork ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxtigu )

20:42:21 asciilifeform: i can't wait for a 'donation of constantine' moment

20:42:29 asciilifeform: it'll be hilarious.

20:43:34 asciilifeform: on one hand, poster said nothing profoundly retarded.

20:43:39 asciilifeform: on other hand - no signature.

20:43:47 asciilifeform: so could be you, me, hitler.

20:44:41 BingoBoingo: bitstein: Well can't use the @gmx.whatever email anymore because haxxed. Curiously not signed

20:44:51 bitstein: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo: Satoshi didn't actually sign much (if anything?), so it would be hard to verify regardless.

20:45:32 BingoBoingo: He signed enough that his signature could attest he wrote it or was rectotherm'd

20:45:49 asciilifeform: could sign with his addresses, even.

20:46:06 asciilifeform: or, if all else fails, the original gavinalert key.

20:46:14 bitstein: asciilifeform: yea, he could

20:46:45 bitstein: BingoBoingo: What has he actually signed? Nothing is coming to mind immediately.

20:46:52 asciilifeform: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010239.html << l0l

20:46:53 assbot: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT Fork ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxtOex )

20:47:05 asciilifeform: esp re: the 32-bit fp

20:47:24 asciilifeform: somebody cook up a key with that fp as seen in idiot winblows pgp, and sign, for the lulz

20:49:06 *: BingoBoingo too busy loading up the gallblader

20:49:08 asciilifeform: !s 5EC948A1

20:49:09 assbot: 0 results for '5EC948A1' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=5EC948A1

20:49:12 asciilifeform: ;;google 5EC948A1

20:49:13 gribble: Proof of Satoshi with signed key : Bitcoin - Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zs564/proof_of_satoshi_with_signed_key/; Glenn Greenwald and Satoshi Nakamoto Comsec - Cryptome: http://cryptome.org/2013/12/gg-satoshi-comsec.htm; Satoshi Nakamoto's P2P foundation profile makes a reply - Bitcoin ...: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504715.0

20:49:50 asciilifeform: http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0x18C09E865EC948A1 << it ?

20:49:51 assbot: Search results for '0x18c09e865ec948a1' ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nxu3Gw )

20:50:03 bitstein: Spoiler warning: that "proof" on reddit was bs.

20:50:12 asciilifeform: l0l 'john titor'

20:50:17 shinohai: Isn't all "proof" on reddit?

20:50:20 asciilifeform: (famous hoax)

20:50:55 asciilifeform: trying to turn up something that was actually signed, ever, by 'satoshi'

20:51:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-jerking-around-a-modern-bedtime-pattern/

20:51:33 assbot: The jerking around, a modern bedtime pattern. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxugJO )

20:51:43 mircea_popescu: let me know if it actually makes any sense or i summarized to omuch

20:52:30 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> or, if all else fails, the original gavinalert key. << not acceptable, been shared.

20:52:41 asciilifeform: aye

20:52:51 asciilifeform: but who's to say what has or has not been shared.

20:53:06 asciilifeform: for all we know, original key is shared by the 1,001 nsa contractors who wrote the turd

20:53:10 mircea_popescu: in that case, in the positive, me.

20:53:14 mircea_popescu: in other cases, by the case.

20:53:45 asciilifeform: so far the only thing i can turn up as 'satoshi's pubkey' is his coin addrs' privkeys

20:53:54 asciilifeform: all else could easily be anyone.

20:55:18 bitstein: asciilifeform: that's what i suspected

20:55:54 shinohai: http://pastebin.com/Ct5M8fa2

20:55:55 assbot: Satoshi email analysis - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DVXUs1 )

20:57:48 shinohai: lel

20:58:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: spiffy

20:59:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still i find it interesting how impenetrable the usg 'never happened because we say so' shield is

20:59:50 asciilifeform: e.g., not one sane inquiry from outside of #b-a re: phuctor, to date, afaik

21:00:04 mircea_popescu: this hasd nothin to do with an yshield.

21:00:06 asciilifeform: it's as if it happened on some distant solar system

21:00:10 mircea_popescu: it has.

21:00:37 mircea_popescu: do you know how many inquiries the mongols got from hungarians ?

21:00:45 mircea_popescu: before wearing the hungarians as cock decorations ?

21:01:11 mircea_popescu: like, say, at the time they were butchering around the don. how many hungarian dudes came over to ask questions ? dja know ?

21:01:26 mircea_popescu: do you know how many us car makers were all over japan in the 50s ?

21:01:41 mircea_popescu: "teh shield of teh usg was strong in the 50s car industree"

21:06:58 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://www.krumel.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/yoyo.gif

21:07:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxvLaZ )

21:08:46 scoopbot_revived: The jerking around, a modern bedtime pattern. http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-jerking-around-a-modern-bedtime-pattern/

21:17:15 asciilifeform: 'your average Romanian fellow would readily prefer to earn 11 units, when everyone else earns 10, instead of an alternative where he earns 90, when everyone else earns 100, indifferent to the fact that 90 is still, significantly above 11. This, in the language, is called "the neighbour's goat problem".' << but this is rational !

21:17:39 asciilifeform: at least in bitcoinlandia

21:17:42 mircea_popescu: whether rational or not.

21:18:49 mircea_popescu: in any case it makes the desires of post-capitalism, the welfare state and the consumerist society, impossible.

21:19:03 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as at the time romanians declared they wish the latter, it was irrational.

21:19:40 asciilifeform: folks want 'get rich while you sleep, damn it, not bathtub of 'monopoly' money.

21:20:04 mircea_popescu: there's no way to get rich while you sleep that doens't include everyone else getting richer.

21:20:54 wyrdmantis: i'll just leave this here http://imgur.com/PzD9EVR

21:20:55 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1DW0MoT )

21:21:15 asciilifeform: lelz

21:23:48 shinohai: LOL

21:24:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have yet to fully grasp how this particular arithmetic handicap works. what is the mental process like, whereby schmuck doesn't wake up to the fact that 'get 90 while everyone gets 100' is equivalent to 'lose 1, keep 9, when everyone keeps 10' ?

21:24:35 mircea_popescu: lose 2

21:25:35 mircea_popescu: it's not hard to explain tho. there's a political and a biological approach to life. the political approach is the thought of the alpha, the thing that results in half decade of trench warfare and a ruined europe : "either you sit lower than me or we fight."

21:25:51 asciilifeform: at any rate, the fixation with units of account is odd, if speaking of sovietized folk. i'd imagine they would realize that what they really want is 'sleep ad libitum', or even 'mercedes 600', rather than 'bag of benjies' per se

21:25:59 mircea_popescu: the biological approach is, "all i need are three meals a day. half a meal a day is less than what i need, five meals a day is more. i prefer the latter"

21:26:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly wrong.

21:26:52 mircea_popescu: there's a reason argentines are worried about "insecuridad" and mexicans abotu the fucking rain. they published a study here recently - the most worried about global warming is... south fucking america. they're still in the 1850s re sun here, even have their ozone.

21:27:02 mircea_popescu: so, no. the soviets will be obsessed with units of account.

21:27:06 *: asciilifeform measured this with own skin

21:27:07 asciilifeform: the ozone.

21:27:13 asciilifeform: was floored.

21:27:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3591 @ 0.00071302 = 2.5605 BTC [+]

21:28:22 mircea_popescu: anwyay, back to the issue. buck will maintain a perimeter of forest edge and brush. with his life.

21:28:30 mircea_popescu: doe will eat enough to raise her young.

21:28:38 mircea_popescu: different approaches, for different needs.

21:28:46 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238620 <<< yeah, sorry about that

21:28:46 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 15:25:00; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238536 << maybe because it's actually 195.211.154.159 ?

21:29:04 shinohai: https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/index.shtml

21:29:05 assbot: NSA Suite B Cryptography - NSA/CSS ... ( http://bit.ly/1DW1D90 )

21:29:24 shinohai: wrong window sorry guys

21:29:56 asciilifeform: 'IAD recognizes that there will be a move, in the not distant future, to a quantum resistant algorithm suite. Based on experience in deploying Suite B, we have determined to start planning and communicating early about the upcoming transition to quantum resistant algorithms. Our ultimate goal is to provide cost effective security against a potential quantum computer. We are working with partners across the USG, vendors, and s

21:29:57 asciilifeform: tandards bodies to ensure there is a clear plan for getting a new suite of algorithms that are developed in an open and transparent manner that will form the foundation of our next Suite of cryptographic algorithms. Until this new suite is developed and products are available implementing the quantum resistant suite, we will rely on current algorithms. For those partners and vendors that have not yet made the transition to Sui

21:29:57 asciilifeform: te B algorithms, we recommend not making a significant expenditure to do so at this point but instead to prepare for the upcoming quantum resistant algorithm transition.'

21:30:00 asciilifeform: ^ l0l!

21:30:03 asciilifeform: new verbiage

21:30:12 asciilifeform: (can't recall this shit being in there earlier this year)

21:30:37 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

21:30:51 mircea_popescu: wait, "across the usg" ?

21:31:00 mircea_popescu: is this now polite terminology inside the perimeter ?

21:31:06 asciilifeform: has been for 20yrs

21:31:17 asciilifeform: what, thought mr mold & co invented it ?

21:31:33 mircea_popescu: i read relatively little of their straight output

21:31:48 mircea_popescu: too much of it, too woody.

21:31:52 wyrdmantis: http://xtnodes.com/ italian derps are HOORAYing for a 10% surge in a few hours... i don't even...

21:31:55 assbot: XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1U879cH )

21:32:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait wtf, don't move to suite b wait for suite qt ?!

21:33:31 asciilifeform: 'It is important to note that we aren?t asking vendors to stop implementing the Suite B algorithms and we aren?t asking our national security customers to stop using these algorithms. Rather, we want to give more flexibility to vendors and our customers in the present as we prepare for a quantum safe future. Where elliptic curve protocols are to be used, we prefer Suite B standards be used to the fullest extent possible a

21:33:32 asciilifeform: s they have a long history of security evaluation and time tested implementation that newer proposals do not yet have.'

21:33:59 asciilifeform: hard to say, reads like the output of five separate monkeys who did not have any kind of complete picture each, other than a checklist of 'agenda items' to address

21:34:20 mircea_popescu: this is directly contradicting the last phrase in the previous snippet.

21:34:25 asciilifeform: aha

21:34:29 asciilifeform: hence my observation.

21:34:29 mircea_popescu: we aren't recommending you do what we just recommended you do.

21:35:08 mircea_popescu: ridiculous. anyway, let teh usg keep on with the curves, wut.

21:37:36 asciilifeform: kinda curious which hardness puzzle they'll bless for 'q-resistant'

21:38:45 BingoBoingo: wyrdmantis: Majority of social media noise not italian, check their grammar

21:42:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you add two and substract two and it comes out as what it was it's quantum resistant right ?

21:42:14 mircea_popescu: at least in 99.9% of cases.

21:42:49 asciilifeform: qc is not a wholly imaginary item, but a well-defined gadget proposed by r. feynman (naturally without schematics..)

21:43:06 mircea_popescu: on what grounds do yo uassume this is that ?

21:43:09 asciilifeform: what will or will not run, is also not completely empty field (e.g., shor's algo)

21:43:17 mircea_popescu: "scientist" is also a well defined gadget.

21:43:31 asciilifeform: don't misunderstand, defined in strictly gedankenexperiment terms

21:43:47 asciilifeform: in 'lectures on computation' (r. f.)

21:43:57 mircea_popescu: there is no basis that i can perceive on which one could propose that the term "quantum" as used by usg in any context has any meaning.

21:44:02 wyrdmantis: BingoBoingo: yes, i know, but the italian community that uses Telegram chatrooms is on fire tonight

21:44:14 mircea_popescu: i didn't know you were italian wyrdmantis

21:44:27 mircea_popescu: then again i also didn't know telegram is some sort of chatroom, so.

21:44:38 asciilifeform: they are speaking of a particular machine, which no one (as publicly known has built), but, e.g., 'd-wave' fraudulently sold to a few rich schmucks, and the difficulties of construction are not mysterious

21:44:42 asciilifeform: like airplane in 1880

21:44:50 mircea_popescu: how do you know they are ?

21:44:53 BingoBoingo: wyrdmantis: Any of them with interesting business opportunities in the Middle west?

21:45:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prolly better comparison is hot fusion

21:45:22 mircea_popescu: probably even better comparison is "stealth"

21:45:31 mircea_popescu: turns out the stealth airplane is not stealth in any sense.

21:45:34 asciilifeform: in that aficionados will point to a list of fairly specific, supposedly-'we're almost there' problems, that in point of fact no one knows how to solve ~~in ensemble~~

21:45:46 mircea_popescu: and as the chief procurer pointed out "if you break the guidance at any point, we're still gonna call it stealth"

21:45:52 asciilifeform: individually - one? sure. while exacerbating the others.

21:46:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64887 @ 0.00068782 = 44.6306 BTC [-]

21:46:30 wyrdmantis: BingoBoingo: i don't know, what do you mean with Middle west? Europe?

21:46:32 mircea_popescu: now, granted, stealth is a well defined concept.

21:46:36 mircea_popescu: but not so in usg usage.

21:46:47 asciilifeform: originally well-defined, in the 'theory of edge wave' paper

21:47:00 asciilifeform: then - marketards got to it, aha.

21:47:08 asciilifeform: but they devour everything

21:47:10 mircea_popescu: i just don't see any cause to suspect this is what they;'re talking about

21:47:12 mod6: asciilifeform: ok here it is: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/orc.sh

21:47:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DW3w5F )

21:47:13 asciilifeform: like graveworms

21:47:57 asciilifeform: mod6: spiffy

21:48:00 *: asciilifeform bbl

21:48:09 mod6: So I've basically been able to reproduce both of your rel1.patch & rel2-pre.patch -- and I went through your patch with my script's created patch side by side by hand and verified the sha512s

21:48:48 mod6: Anyone who wants to please be a second pair of eyes here: run the script and then compare the scripts version to ascii's version:

21:48:49 wyrdmantis: mircea_popescu: i'm italian yes, and telegram is like Whatsapp but free, nothing that may interest you

21:49:05 mod6: orchestra/rel1.patch v. orchestra/test-v0531-patches/rel1-test.patch

21:49:07 mod6: and

21:49:24 mod6: orchestra/rel2-pre.patch v. orchestra/test-v054-patches/rel2-pre-test.patch

21:49:35 davout: mircea_popescu: x.eur plz

22:00:06 BingoBoingo: <wyrdmantis> BingoBoingo: i don't know, what do you mean with Middle west? Europe? << Missourah

22:02:00 BingoBoingo: wyrdmantis: If you know any Wops with a plan that isn't tarded I'd cross the river for that just to get out of Illinois though recent opportunities to take money Illinois would offer other people seem interesting if they pan out.

22:02:04 mircea_popescu: for free ie, like whatsap was free : yet.

22:02:12 mircea_popescu: hoping to one day find some idiots to "buy" it

22:02:12 mircea_popescu: etc.

22:02:33 mircea_popescu: dav aha in a moment.

22:03:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54950 @ 0.00068782 = 37.7957 BTC [-] {2}

22:11:23 shinohai: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/surfing-the-internet-from-my-trs-80-model-100/ <<< memories!

22:11:24 assbot: Surfing the Internet… from my TRS-80 Model 100 | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1DW6kj1 )

22:13:39 wyrdmantis: BingoBoingo i'll investigate

22:14:37 BingoBoingo: wyrdmantis: No hurry. I'm probably not going to be to interested if anything comes up anyways and introductions are important. They should have known me first.

22:22:47 trinque: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisonous_pedagogy << bwahahaha

22:22:47 assbot: Poisonous pedagogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DW7n2y )

22:22:49 trinque: aka spanking your kid

22:24:11 shinohai: trinque: werent you the gentleman that had a gentoo build script?

22:24:24 trinque: shinohai: sure do

22:24:41 trinque: in teh logs, lemme see

22:24:58 shinohai: I remember you posting it but I lost the paste ... for qemu if memory serves

22:25:13 trinque: right, easy to alter though for an arbitrary block device

22:25:21 trinque: just have to hack some things out of the lilo config

22:25:27 trinque: and change two vars at the top

22:25:45 shinohai: nah i need something for qemu tbh

22:26:15 shinohai: So I can watch it like Sesame St. until I get the hang of it

22:26:26 trinque: ah k, and cool; exactly why I targeted that first

22:26:41 trinque: lemme actually sign the thing then

22:26:55 shinohai: kk

22:31:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12309 @ 0.00069696 = 8.5789 BTC [+]

22:32:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71915 @ 0.00072048 = 51.8133 BTC [+] {4}

22:32:03 trinque: shinohai: http://deedbot.org/genbootstrap.sh.sig

22:32:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KoesG4 )

22:32:05 trinque: shinohai: http://deedbot.org/genbootstrap.sh

22:32:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KoesG8 )

22:32:31 trinque: knobs at the top, will currently squeeze out a root.img in the current directory

22:32:48 trinque: lemme know how it goes

22:33:27 trinque: and the thing's written such that you can go edit the config files easily from within, should you want to

22:33:35 trinque: pick a different stage3, change make.conf, whatever

22:34:01 trinque: it also assumes you have the gentoo releases gpg pubkey

22:36:52 trinque: oh also run as root; it needs to for example loop-mount the image

22:37:39 trinque: and finally, the current stage3 in there is actually stale. so you'll have to alter that.

22:38:25 trinque: 20150813

22:38:37 trinque: I don't like that they delete the old stage3's so quickly...

22:38:57 trinque: how the fuck am I supposed to be able to say that "this one is known to work"

22:42:38 trinque: stage3-amd64-hardened+nomultilib-20150813.tar.bz2 <<

22:42:52 trinque: or whatever ya like

22:42:59 shinohai: ty \o/

22:43:11 shinohai: i searched the logs for HOURS

22:43:33 trinque: np, bout to depart, so hopefully that gets ya through

22:45:10 trinque: the gentoo key you want is 13EB BDBE DE7A 1277 5DFD B1BA BB57 2E0E 2D18 2910

22:45:18 shinohai: I appreciate your support to my cause!

22:45:27 trinque: hey no problem

22:45:29 trinque: ttyl

22:46:55 shinohai: o7

22:49:22 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/DCnDovk.jpg

22:49:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWa0RR )

22:51:43 wyrdmantis: shinoai lolz, i was about to post the same image

22:53:35 punkman: http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/

22:53:36 assbot: Snake Oil Crypto Competition ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWaqYF )

23:01:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17447 @ 0.00072343 = 12.6217 BTC [+] {3}

23:05:30 shinohai: nice punkman, I had to channel my inner 90's

23:06:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26270 @ 0.00073944 = 19.4251 BTC [+]

23:07:55 punkman: https://underhandedcrypto.com/2015/08/08/crypto-privacy-village-contest-winners/

23:07:56 assbot: Crypto & Privacy Village Contest Winners! | Underhanded Crypto Contest ... ( http://bit.ly/1NxFvBR )

23:19:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1239163 << i read that piece not long ago, while contemplating buying one.

23:19:38 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 22:11:23; shinohai: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/surfing-the-internet-from-my-trs-80-model-100/ <<< memories!

23:19:46 asciilifeform: and searching for docs

23:20:32 shinohai: I still have an original Extended Colour Basic manual lol

23:20:44 shinohai: dem GOTO's

23:22:16 cazalla: asciilifeform, are these AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed errors a problem? also is it normal behaviour to gain so many new connections from other ips? i thought i'd only be syncing from dulap http://dpaste.com/3KHQH2A.txt

23:22:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWcQXd )

23:22:33 asciilifeform: cazalla: what are your run arguments ?

23:23:11 asciilifeform: cazalla: and you'll be seeing an ocean of 'ConnectInputs failed' if you're not at top block height

23:23:15 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

23:23:39 cazalla: just ./bitcoind -myip=*.*.*.* -connect=195.211.154.159

23:24:26 asciilifeform: cazalla: i don't see any connections from other ip ?

23:24:27 asciilifeform: in that log

23:24:28 BingoBoingo: cazalla: In your log?

23:24:46 cazalla: asciilifeform, at the bottom

23:25:19 asciilifeform: what is in the snipped part ?

23:25:41 cazalla: accepted connection 54.186.43.50:38455 these and many other ip addresses

23:25:52 asciilifeform: view process list, is it running with the args you thought you ran with ?

23:26:02 asciilifeform: and is the only instance

23:26:14 punkman: you might have addnode in config

23:26:36 asciilifeform: and this

23:28:11 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2775

23:28:12 assbot: JL: Hos in the Hood ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWd944 )

23:28:46 cazalla: not using addnode and process list shows what i ran as in "jon 23241 3.8 0.6 2106956 51844 pts/0 SLl+ 08:43 1:44 ./bitcoind -myip=*.*.*.* -connect=195.211.154.159

23:29:15 asciilifeform: netstat -a ?

23:30:05 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'their elven palaces in Rivendale' << fucking illiterate

23:30:08 asciilifeform: it's rivendell

23:30:19 asciilifeform: wtf inglisch speaker doesn't know this ?!!!$

23:30:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: To be fair I read him now because you introduced him to this chan, and seriously who respects the fantasy worlds of a Briton?

23:31:03 asciilifeform: me??

23:31:06 asciilifeform: dun think so.

23:31:45 asciilifeform: !s from:asciilifeform www.jameslafond.com

23:31:46 assbot: 0 results for 'from:asciilifeform www.jameslafond.com' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+www.jameslafond.com

23:31:52 asciilifeform: !s from:ascii_field www.jameslafond.com

23:31:53 assbot: 0 results for 'from:ascii_field www.jameslafond.com' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aascii_field+www.jameslafond.com

23:31:55 asciilifeform: QED.

23:32:09 asciilifeform: !s from:decimation www.jameslafond.com

23:32:09 assbot: 3 results for 'from:decimation www.jameslafond.com' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Adecimation+www.jameslafond.com

23:32:13 asciilifeform: ^ was him i think.

23:32:15 BingoBoingo: hmmm... I could have swore you introduced his links when Baltimore burned

23:32:20 BingoBoingo: AH

23:32:29 BingoBoingo: Twas the ghost

23:33:16 asciilifeform: the z80 article has spiffy photos

23:33:20 asciilifeform: recommended.

23:33:27 BingoBoingo: I can't remember the details of that drama, but damned if I don't confuse him for everyone else

23:33:31 cazalla: asciilifeform, what am i looking for in netstat? also, i still had 8333 port forwarding in router going on for 0.8.3, might that be the problem?

23:33:46 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you may be confusing him with diametric, like mircea_popescu did on a few occasions

23:33:53 asciilifeform: diametric is an actual person i see just about every day.

23:34:33 BingoBoingo: I've always confused him with diametric. In this case I think I confused with you because you talked about having been to the burning places in Baltimore now that I think about it.

23:34:50 asciilifeform: i have been to them. prior to their burning.

23:35:32 mircea_popescu: that wikipedia article is a rare example of extreme millitant ignorance.

23:35:36 mircea_popescu: a) the term is older than freud

23:35:56 BingoBoingo: Lafond guy seems to have some good stuff, a lot of bad stuff, and some interesting fiction. Just that accounting for getting hit in the head part takes work.

23:36:08 mircea_popescu: b) it readily describes all sorts of known-broken apprtoaches and techniques. such as the use of blackmail. it pointedly has nothing to do with either beating or set time breastfeeding

23:36:34 mircea_popescu: the two women named, miller and the other one, are unrelated to any academic field and especially unimportant for child rearing or child psychology.

23:37:00 asciilifeform: it isn't an article, it is cant, and this is detectable via five-second litmus of first paragraphs

23:37:09 *: asciilifeform doesn't typically bother to read these

23:37:25 mircea_popescu: but i am curious to see if this new trend will in some sort of timeframe bring us the black man invented cellphone of 2020

23:37:32 asciilifeform: here already

23:37:35 mircea_popescu: etc.

23:37:39 asciilifeform: soviet elephants are the biggest in the world!

23:37:41 mircea_popescu: well can't be here already, not yet 2020

23:38:11 mircea_popescu: in any case, sure, "buterin and hearn invented bitcoin in 2017" is just about the same deal.

23:38:37 asciilifeform: it'll be ethylin or somesuch

23:38:44 asciilifeform: propylin

23:38:56 asciilifeform: heptylin.

23:39:47 mircea_popescu: but hey, at least alexithymia

23:39:57 mircea_popescu: because if you say it in greek it ceases to be contemptibly stuopid.

23:40:29 mircea_popescu: The term "alexithymia" was coined by psychotherapist Peter Sifneos in 1973

23:40:43 mircea_popescu: except you can't "coin" anything if nobody ever heard about you or cared to read your stuff.

23:44:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform back to the earlier issue. how do you reconcile your concept of "a file" with your concept of notation ?

23:44:26 asciilifeform: wai wat

23:44:27 mircea_popescu: seems utf-8 is requisite.

23:44:33 mircea_popescu: you can't have ascii.

23:44:34 asciilifeform: why ?

23:44:43 asciilifeform: can have what you want in the file

23:44:55 mircea_popescu: because what is the difference between "this file is noted in ascii" and "this file includes a hash"

23:44:56 asciilifeform: because don't care what's inside

23:45:05 mircea_popescu: but ascii implies oyu must care.

23:45:06 asciilifeform: if you care what's inside, now you have to cut it

23:45:33 asciilifeform: i can (and often do) sign a tar.gz

23:45:43 asciilifeform: or, on one occasion, 10MB of rng output

23:45:52 asciilifeform: (or how much was it.)

23:46:05 mircea_popescu: but these are numbers.

23:46:10 asciilifeform: aha

23:46:21 asciilifeform: let's work this out.

23:46:43 asciilifeform: if i want to embed hashes next to their payload, i get an explosion of complexity. because,

23:46:45 mircea_popescu: on what basis does ascii notation exist ?

23:46:58 asciilifeform: 1) now i have to remove the header before hashing the payload

23:47:14 asciilifeform: 2) have to represent the header differently if payload is meant to be displayable ascii, than if it is a binary

23:47:23 asciilifeform: (that is, unconstrained to printable chars)

23:47:52 asciilifeform: btw 'binaries' are not merely 'un-ascii' but include intrinsic unprintables (control chars)

23:48:00 asciilifeform: so it isn't an ascii vs utf fight

23:48:06 mircea_popescu: but on what basis does this particular alphabet exist.

23:48:16 asciilifeform: on the basis of the fella who build the vt100

23:48:19 asciilifeform: ask him, not me.

23:48:33 asciilifeform: some codes were reserved for line feed, dinging the bell (yes), etc.

23:49:34 mircea_popescu: right.

23:49:57 asciilifeform: cat /dev/random and see what you get.

23:50:07 asciilifeform: or some other source of binaryrubbish

23:50:31 asciilifeform: you will even notice that sometimes this results in a permanently b0rk3d terminal.

23:51:00 kakobrekla: happens when i tail the wrong thing.

23:51:04 mircea_popescu: right ?

23:51:05 asciilifeform: aha.

23:51:26 mircea_popescu: so then how do you resolve this ?

23:51:37 asciilifeform: by out of band sign.

23:51:42 mircea_popescu: mno.

23:51:58 mircea_popescu: the fact that your cat /dev/random breaks things is PROOF that you are already using something like "hash" in your file.

23:51:58 asciilifeform: or with magical fairy dust.

23:52:09 asciilifeform: wai wat

23:52:10 punkman: best thing you can do with text encodings is guess

23:52:32 mircea_popescu: there is necessarily no difference, at the conceptual level we're discussing, between "don't put hash in file" and "ascii doesn't exist"

23:52:44 asciilifeform: throwing garbage into a vt100-compatible terminal breaks things for reasons that are not mysterious at all. rtfm?

23:53:13 mircea_popescu: manuals don't matter.

23:53:19 asciilifeform: terminal has state.

23:53:23 mircea_popescu: i can write a manual for how to interact with my file with hashes in it

23:53:27 asciilifeform: and various oddities not really used in modern times.

23:53:30 mircea_popescu: "explosion of complexity", ie, the need for manuals.

23:53:45 asciilifeform: ok back to the example

23:53:55 asciilifeform: say we ask that a file carry hash in a header.

23:54:04 asciilifeform: IT CANNOT BE THE SAME FORMAT FOR bins and text

23:54:22 mircea_popescu: im not really interested in the practical example, but in the theoretical objection.

23:54:22 asciilifeform: because if we deal with the insides of any text, ever, we suddenly get line-endings and escapes and crapola

23:54:28 asciilifeform: this is the objection

23:54:33 asciilifeform: cannot be oblivious of payload

23:54:46 asciilifeform: cannot rehash just by cat file | sha512sum

23:55:10 asciilifeform: now have to put in a whole paragraph of sed, tr, and other potentially drepperized utils

23:55:21 asciilifeform: (i, for instance, know of two separate exploitable bugs in 'strings'.)

23:55:27 mircea_popescu: so you're not really defending a principle, you're just saying "we already have all the complexity for X idiocy, and not for Y idiocy, thus X i won't notice and Y i'll reject"

23:55:36 asciilifeform: no.

23:55:40 mircea_popescu: then speak to it.

23:55:53 asciilifeform: the present scheme has intrinsically fewer moving parts.

23:55:59 asciilifeform: and is more oblivious of contents.

23:56:01 asciilifeform: ergo superior.

23:56:13 mircea_popescu: but by that same principle, ascii is an unacceptable convention.

23:56:13 asciilifeform: whereas the alternative is only even contemplated because pgp is retarded.

23:56:37 asciilifeform: ascii is retarded. complain to the central committee, or who was it.

23:56:42 asciilifeform: ckkpss.

23:56:51 mircea_popescu: so you agree that actually ascii is dumb and has no place in computing ?

23:57:08 asciilifeform: sure is.

23:57:10 mircea_popescu: and utf-8, or whatever other unfixed width translation scheme, is the right approach ?

23:57:18 asciilifeform: it still won't display /dev/random

23:57:20 asciilifeform: meaningfully

23:57:45 asciilifeform: btw, in-band signalling is precisely why an animal like 'backspace' is a character

23:57:48 asciilifeform: or line-end

23:57:49 asciilifeform: etc

23:58:18 asciilifeform: iirc tcp as originally proposed had a second channel for virtual 'out of band' ! but was never used.

23:58:19 asciilifeform: by anyone.

23:58:24 asciilifeform: because 'eh why'd we need that!'

23:58:46 mircea_popescu: im starting to think there's really a lot more than meets my eye.

23:58:50 asciilifeform: there sure is

23:58:51 mircea_popescu: here*

23:59:08 mircea_popescu: but ascii is eminently A REDUCTION of complexity!

23:59:22 mircea_popescu: and tcp with 2nd chan did not catch on precisely because added complexity.

23:59:28 asciilifeform: or so it appeared.

23:59:34 mircea_popescu: it still does. to this very day.

23:59:52 asciilifeform: the question of 'which road to take to ultimately get fewer moving parts' is the mega-question in all engineering

23:59:54 mircea_popescu: they got python to work with it in six weeks over pizza, and they still don't have python that works with special chars