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Transcript for 15-10-2015, 938 lines:

00:10:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22762 @ 0.00047786 = 10.877 BTC [+] {2}

00:11:02 mircea_popescu: first!

00:26:36 mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/07/academics_hide_drug_company_pa.html << this shit is so on point...

00:26:37 assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Academics Hide Drug Company Payments ... ( http://bit.ly/1NI78Mn )

00:26:51 mircea_popescu: "If Biederman never existed, nothing would be different. You read his resume, you think, wow, he's a big player. You don't realize that if he didn't exist there would be some other person in his exact position, who would also have become a Distinguished Professor, won awards, written 450 publications, etc. The machine was already in place, his slot was going to get filled; his mind didn't discover anything, those re

00:26:52 mircea_popescu: sults were coming no matter what, those publications were already going to be written.

00:26:52 mircea_popescu: The money isn't corrupting him into thinking childhood bipolar is underdiagnosed-- he truly believes it. The reason he believes it is his entire professional existence-- his whole identity-- is predicated on believing it. He's not a scientist, he's a priest.

00:26:53 mircea_popescu: He starts out as a young academic. He lands a spot in a research group that studies X, so he studies X, later he branches out into X+Y, or goes to Z, etc, eventually he finds himself a niche. And he believes in that niche, he believes in his data, no matter what it says. You can't convince him he's wrong because it isn't science and it isn't even a bias-- it's identity.

00:26:58 mircea_popescu: That's how an entire nation of psychiatrists could have been deluded into prescribing Depakote for maintenance when the data itself says not to do it. It's belief, not money, "we believe bipolar is a kindled disorder..." Hell, if Harvard believes it, what chance do the rest of us have?"

00:27:25 asciilifeform: and this is not even remotely limited to pharma.

00:27:50 mircea_popescu: has 0 to do with pharma. where usg goes, the usg.problems go.

00:28:06 mircea_popescu: wherever there's two ustards, there's ustardation, aka this sort of narcisiac neurosis.

00:28:15 asciilifeform: btw 'bipolar as kindled [as per 1950s theory of epileptic fit origins] disease' comes entirely from one thing:

00:28:18 mircea_popescu: heck, the fucking "expat" group in costa rica had it./

00:28:40 asciilifeform: antiepileptics tend to be 1) infinitely polymorphable into patentability 2) lobotomize patient into quiescence

00:29:20 mircea_popescu: yes, obviously, "antiepileptics for everything" aka "everything to do with the brain will be fixed by fucking with these neurotransmitters" comes from exactly this fertile field.

00:29:58 mircea_popescu: and the entire "everything wrong is really wrong with the brain" ie "not criminality but imbalance" so on and so forth are only superficially an ideology matter, ie "humanism" run amok us style.

00:30:07 asciilifeform: but i will note the overall ~direction~ of usg psychiatry.

00:30:08 BingoBoingo: antiepileptics tend to work on ion channels, antipsychotics/antidepressants fuck with neurotransmitters

00:30:10 mircea_popescu: fundamentally, they're exactly driven by this tecxh

00:30:14 mircea_popescu: technological happenstance.\

00:30:23 asciilifeform: much the same as that of sov психушка

00:30:24 mircea_popescu: this discussion exactly mirrors yesterdauy's discussion about diesels.

00:30:35 asciilifeform: there ~were~ dopaminergics.

00:30:42 mircea_popescu: the "regulators" had 0 to do with it. while the refinery process poured out diesel fuel, you were gonna run diesels.

00:30:58 mircea_popescu: while petrochem pours out depakote, you're gonna fucking feed people depakote and stfu.

00:31:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not really the case here. petrochem had equally easy time pouring out dopaminergics as it does neuroleptics

00:31:43 mircea_popescu: notrly.

00:32:24 mircea_popescu: see, the uppers risk cascading.

00:32:32 mircea_popescu: the downers just make people stfu and sit down.

00:32:37 asciilifeform: naturally

00:32:38 BingoBoingo: Depakote was popular because drug companies made conditions for the insurance companies to pay for it.

00:32:47 asciilifeform: usg would rather have a herd of depressives than manics, yes

00:32:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but they only did that because it was accessible.

00:33:04 BingoBoingo: Before Depakote, it was seroquel, after depakote it was Zyprexa

00:33:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even usg related. it is CHEAPER.

00:33:10 mircea_popescu: \that's the considerationb here.

00:33:29 asciilifeform: cheaper to manage the depressives ? certainly

00:33:32 asciilifeform: to make the pill? nope.

00:33:43 mircea_popescu: no. cheaper to make these than those. cheaper to prescribe them. cheaper to take them.

00:33:51 mircea_popescu: in the very lowest sense of it all. cheaper in adp terms.

00:34:05 BingoBoingo: Psychiatry swings in an antipsychotic-antiepileptic-antipsychotic-antiepileptic pattern for bipolar

00:34:21 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo these aren't different.

00:34:32 mircea_popescu: psychiatry is being a slut while pretending she's having amorous complications.

00:34:37 mircea_popescu: it still fucks the same dude every night.

00:34:44 asciilifeform: is PeterL around ? let's look at the synthesis for either.

00:34:51 BingoBoingo: Sure, but they switch around condom brands

00:35:02 asciilifeform: i don't see anything in the structures that would suggest a substantial difference in cost per kg.

00:35:15 asciilifeform: of, e.g., 'depakote' vs dextraamphetamine

00:35:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your argument will reduce to something like "making 1950s bachelite and fuel oil is '''cheaper''' than making diesel and wd40". this is equivalent to saying "z80 is cheaper to make than pentium 3". both are incorrect.

00:35:31 mircea_popescu: pentium 3 is ACTUALLY cheaper to make than z80 ever was.

00:35:36 asciilifeform: z80 is absolutely cheaper.

00:35:39 mircea_popescu: not so.

00:35:56 mircea_popescu: "absolutely" is a meaningless term. yes, you think it exists. good for you.

00:36:00 asciilifeform: unless one goes 'but no one is tooled for it'

00:36:06 mircea_popescu: but outside of your pinning it down, it does not exist.

00:36:07 mircea_popescu: aha.

00:36:33 mircea_popescu: it's not that "no one is tooled for it". it's that theyre not TOOLABLE for it. and if they WERE, it'd be expensive.

00:36:43 mircea_popescu: consider home cooking. it is ABSOLUTELY the cheapest way to feed a fambly.

00:36:46 mircea_popescu: except, not.

00:36:51 mircea_popescu: there isn't this "absolutely" .

00:37:31 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Chez Cocus, or the Argentinian Chorus - http://fraudsters.com/2015/chez-cocus-or-the-argentinian-chorus/

00:37:32 mircea_popescu: in the world where women cook as a matter of course, cooking is MORE EXPENSIVE than in the world where cooking would be "absolutely" less expensive but women would kill themselves if you allowed them in a kitchen

00:38:26 mircea_popescu: does this coallesce into sense on your side ?

00:59:09 mircea_popescu: speaking of nothing related, anyone recall the original patrick naughton trial ? compuserve exec, flew to La to meet a 40yo FBI agent that had been posing as a 13 yo girl in a dads&daughers sex chatroom. hung jury : all women voted to convict ; all men voted he;s innocent.

01:00:43 asciilifeform: hung != acquit

01:00:49 mircea_popescu: somehow THAT gender gap doesn't figure too prominently in "feminist" discourse today

01:01:01 mircea_popescu: but i think it informs, subconsciously, ALL of it.

01:01:36 asciilifeform: re: previous thread: i get the hypothesis, but it falls apart re: z80 specifically. as it is... still made. and is about $5 in qty.

01:01:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc he went to work as an exeprty in fucking teens for the fbi afterwards.

01:01:40 mircea_popescu: so yes, it did.

01:02:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform $5 does not describe the price.

01:02:21 mircea_popescu: see my bottles of wine. also $5. or, less.

01:02:35 mircea_popescu: pentium costs $0.

01:02:40 asciilifeform: wai wut

01:02:49 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/chez-cocus-or-the-argentinian-chorus/ <\

01:02:49 assbot: Chez Cocus, or the Argentinian Chorus on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PhCREx )

01:02:51 asciilifeform: in the sense of go-dig-up-from-the-skip ?

01:02:54 asciilifeform: yes, $0

01:03:09 mircea_popescu: in the sense of, "put on provision slip, sign, costs nothing"

01:03:13 mircea_popescu: go, put z80 on the list.

01:03:25 asciilifeform: how does it 'cost nothing' ?

01:03:32 asciilifeform: pray to god, he drops a pallet down ?

01:03:37 mircea_popescu: suppose you're in soviet russia.

01:03:43 mircea_popescu: if you want a Tatra truck, ask for it.

01:03:47 mircea_popescu: if you want a general motors truck ?

01:04:05 mircea_popescu: your wife's cunt costs 0. teen poon costs... how much does it cost ? as alf says "might as well me from mars."

01:04:27 mircea_popescu: what company you ever heard of had a debate over "windows licensing costs" ?

01:04:40 asciilifeform: this is handy for the present day but does not explain how the pieces on the board got to where they are

01:04:47 mircea_popescu: "hey, maybe we should use linux, it's cheaper". sure, as a red herring for "red hat", which is not linux.

01:05:05 mircea_popescu: well, they got to where they are through a succession of present days.

01:05:22 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the mathematical sleigh of hand called "induction" rite.

01:05:29 asciilifeform: incidentally, for the two kinds of dope picked for this comparison, the packaging and distribution costs dwarf the actual cost of producing the pill

01:05:30 mircea_popescu: i show today and tomorrow and i won.

01:05:38 mircea_popescu: aha.

01:05:46 mircea_popescu: which is why we strictly ignore it.

01:05:54 asciilifeform: so what was cheaper on day 0 ?

01:06:01 mircea_popescu: a club.

01:06:20 mircea_popescu: you familiar with this, yes ? the romans kept going "why would someone farm when he could heroicly steal women and shit ?!?!?!"

01:06:29 asciilifeform: aha

01:06:33 mircea_popescu: so then.

01:07:40 mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem of reality is that for things to work, things don't actually have to work.

01:07:51 asciilifeform: except where they do.

01:08:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3326 @ 0.00047798 = 1.5898 BTC [+]

01:08:40 mircea_popescu: which is just another restatement of "people are insane" which is pretty much the oldest observation in the book that everyone keeps restating self-importantly and lo, it's voltaire! it's nietsche! it's existentialism! it's your grandmother vigin! etgc

01:09:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they never do. that's the problem. by the time the war is lost, the people who lost it are dead. that's the thing.

01:09:28 mircea_popescu: yes the people that won won. but this means nothing in context.

01:09:41 mircea_popescu: ofcourse they were gonna win etc.

01:09:54 *: asciilifeform is palpably confused

01:10:16 mircea_popescu: look, let's go at it this way. in your own private experience, as a witness, how many times did a horde of idiots on some idiot forum know better than me ?

01:10:28 mircea_popescu: i'm still here, they as individuals are not. but they as group are still here. perhaps to outlast me.

01:10:42 asciilifeform: as per the 'infinite hitpoints' article from mircea_popescu's www, aha

01:10:44 mircea_popescu: the idiot can not lose, because by the time he's lost he's gone. where's the neobee schmuck ?

01:10:47 mircea_popescu: not around, that;s where.

01:11:00 asciilifeform: or my personal favourite 'cockroaches will inherit the earth'

01:11:04 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, there is no "unless it does". yes, they'll die.

01:11:06 mircea_popescu: they'll die anyway.

01:11:20 mircea_popescu: things are only meaningful to those capable to perceive meaning, and this ALREADY means not-them.

01:11:46 mircea_popescu: in aother formulation.

01:12:36 mircea_popescu: if multiverse, and if in ALL possible verses picking a on X quesdtion results in annihilation, this means exactly nothing. the a pickers aren't in any way different from the non-a pickers.

01:12:59 mircea_popescu: "oh, the end of their world is visible from our world". a) no, it isn't ; b) so ?

01:16:29 mircea_popescu: in a very amusing (to me) twist, this is actually in the fucking patristics (the wanna-be mishnah of xtianity). "your reward be not of this world" etc.

01:16:45 asciilifeform: i thought that was a standard 'jam tomorrow'

01:16:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00047798 = 11.5193 BTC [+]

01:17:14 mircea_popescu: so you did.

01:17:26 mircea_popescu: but if there's one criticism that can not be put at the feet of the scholasticis, it is superficiality.

01:18:21 mircea_popescu: it's a very plain statement that dunning-kruger, and consequently, the reward for being not an idiot is not accessible in idiot terms.

01:18:31 asciilifeform: this - yes.

01:18:36 mircea_popescu: this for some reason has to be stated.

01:19:34 asciilifeform: hell, this was even in (pre-braindamage) paul graham

01:19:37 asciilifeform: in his 'blub' article.

01:19:50 mircea_popescu: generally it is a common mark of middling sanity.

01:20:01 asciilifeform: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html << it.

01:20:08 assbot: Beating the Averages ... ( http://bit.ly/1LbsH4p )

01:20:12 mircea_popescu: but back to our point of interest : your expectation that "z80" and "pentium" costs can be meaningfully compared breaks down.

01:20:29 mircea_popescu: when they can be compared, z80 loses. where they be meaningfully compared, common ground breaks down.

01:21:03 mircea_popescu: so - efficient markets, yes. but only if markets. and there's no guarantee everything you imagine can be a market.

01:21:31 mircea_popescu: this is trivially understood either through geometry or high physics. there are fewer things than you can write equations for.

01:22:05 asciilifeform: recall the crashing flashlight ?

01:22:12 mircea_popescu: aha.

01:23:35 asciilifeform: and yes, cost is not a scalar. but as someone who actually buys things i am led to partially differentiate. i.e. if i personally need max cpu ~quantity~ for my personal bag of money, i will be buying z80.

01:23:54 mircea_popescu: and if you want maximum sploodge for your penis you buy brunettes.

01:23:56 mircea_popescu: what of it ?

01:24:08 mircea_popescu: art is art.

01:25:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17138 @ 0.00047617 = 8.1606 BTC [-]

01:31:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00047526 = 23.763 BTC [-] {3}

01:37:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20698 @ 0.00047798 = 9.8932 BTC [+]

01:40:35 nubbins`: sez u

01:43:29 mircea_popescu: LOL

01:52:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00047329 = 6.4367 BTC [-] {3}

01:52:31 BingoBoingo: Oh, nubbins` the celebrity is back

01:58:09 nubbins`: 8)

01:58:27 nubbins`: autographs for only 5 tx fees

02:03:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6418 @ 0.00047262 = 3.0333 BTC [-] {2}

02:15:28 BingoBoingo: lol

02:29:22 mircea_popescu: haha

02:29:30 mircea_popescu: how much for autogripes ?

02:30:26 BingoBoingo: !t m s.butts

02:30:26 assbot: I haven't understood a single word you've said since I met you, not one single word.

02:30:30 BingoBoingo: ^Free

02:51:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20450 @ 0.00047259 = 9.6645 BTC [-]

02:54:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00047556 = 6.7292 BTC [+]

02:57:18 BingoBoingo: shinohai: You around?

02:57:59 BingoBoingo: Or anyone else who wants to cut their teeth on a qntra story?

03:03:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21778 @ 0.00047742 = 10.3973 BTC [+] {2}

03:05:58 mircea_popescu: "If you ever do find yourself working for a startup, here's a handy tip for evaluating competitors. Read their job listings. Everything else on their site may be stock photos or the prose equivalent, but the job listings have to be specific about what they want, or they'll get the wrong candidates." << this is actually very much correct.

03:06:09 mircea_popescu: "we don't care what the unknown animal sounds like. what does it eat ?"

03:06:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this misses a fairly big chunk of reality, where hiring is not done publicly but through meatwot

03:06:59 asciilifeform: esp. in small firms

03:07:04 mircea_popescu: aha.

03:07:10 mircea_popescu: but you know WHO they hired.

03:07:14 asciilifeform: how?

03:07:19 mircea_popescu: ok.

03:07:22 mircea_popescu: but I know who they hired.

03:07:37 asciilifeform: only if you have a mole

03:08:36 mircea_popescu: i've seen many skins, i've yet to meet one without a single mole on it.

03:08:40 mircea_popescu: investigation continues.

03:18:26 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299118 << would be entertaining to hear more of this

03:18:26 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 00:28:18; mircea_popescu: heck, the fucking "expat" group in costa rica had it./

03:18:30 BingoBoingo: Seriously if anyone wants a ready packed "My First Qntra Piece" http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12538849.html

03:18:30 assbot: Investment in Factom - London Stock Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1k63f7o )

03:19:19 mircea_popescu: not really too much to tell. buncha old dudes who couldn't really afford to live in the states [to their expectations], hitting the casinos and the 5 foot nothing whores of san jose.

03:19:47 asciilifeform: aka 'brass pole in bangkok'

03:19:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6942 @ 0.00047797 = 3.3181 BTC [+] {2}

03:19:59 mircea_popescu: except cheaper.

03:20:40 asciilifeform: but where's the 'ustardation' ? all i see thus far is poverty

03:21:08 mircea_popescu: in the pretense.

03:21:35 mircea_popescu: seriously, if all yhou have are "not enough money to be a retired midwestern mobster" what you do is go south and try to pretend ?

03:22:05 asciilifeform: pretense how? is the refrigerator box a hobo lives in a pretense of a house ? or merely the only house he can afford

03:22:10 mircea_popescu: here's the thing : cargo cult is what savages / pacific islanders / subhuman monkeys do as a reaction to exposure to actual hjuman beings and their civilisation.

03:22:38 asciilifeform: but how is this a cargo cult? what i'm seeing is a very small but functioning airplane

03:22:46 asciilifeform: vs one of sticks and mud

03:24:36 asciilifeform: 'Factom's software allows companies to maintain a permanent, time-stamped record of their data tied to blockchains, reducing the cost and complexity of conducting audits, managing records, and complying with government regulations. n the financial services industry, Factom tools let customers build transparent accountability systems for the financial industry, helping clients build immutable records that can be synced and shar

03:24:36 asciilifeform: ed among multiple parties. The validation and verification tools let the client audit these transactions in real time or run more sophisticated business process analysis of systems in the future.'

03:25:01 asciilifeform: 'blockchains'

03:26:31 *: asciilifeform is mildly curious re: whether this flavour of nonsense even pretends to physically exist, as product, or is straight bezzle laundry

03:27:00 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Story is in Crowdfunders are now recast as "software licensees"

03:27:30 asciilifeform: lulzy

03:27:48 asciilifeform: advertise 'we sold ten tonnes of meat', but no reason to mention what % is maggot

03:28:10 BingoBoingo: Low hanging, yet not particularly urgent fruit for anyone who wants to try their hand at a qntra

03:32:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16879 @ 0.00047798 = 8.0678 BTC [+]

03:39:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00047259 = 11.7911 BTC [-]

03:43:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9332 @ 0.00047259 = 4.4102 BTC [-]

03:55:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27650 @ 0.00047512 = 13.1371 BTC [+]

04:09:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00047259 = 11.9329 BTC [-] {2}

04:29:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0004769 = 4.4352 BTC [+] {3}

04:34:09 BingoBoingo: Oh, look what third world shithole will be the beneficiary of Twitter-Payments Edition's IPO http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ferguson-could-be-beneficiary-of-square-public-offering/article_353be58d-0e55-58b1-881d-94da6ad52e07.html

04:34:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RJiyOD )

04:34:39 BingoBoingo: "The first beneficiary of the foundation, Dorsey said via Twitter, would be Ferguson, a city that he visited during the unrest that followed the August 2014 fatal shooting of Michael Brown, 18, by police Officer Darren Wilson."

04:56:43 BingoBoingo: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2015/10/13/something-has-happened-to-zafgen-but-what

04:56:45 assbot: Something Has Happened to Zafgen, But What? | In the Pipeline ... ( http://bit.ly/1G6QfIF )

04:58:12 BingoBoingo: Their chem http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2012/10/17/zafgens_epoxide_adventure

04:58:13 assbot: Zafgen’s Epoxide Adventure | In the Pipeline ... ( http://bit.ly/1G6QlA0 )

05:04:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15047 @ 0.00047798 = 7.1922 BTC [+]

05:46:58 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/HqgnT << BMI... actually seems pretty reliable

05:46:59 assbot: This Is What Women With The Same BMI Look Like Side By Side ... ( http://bit.ly/1jpLMqD )

05:51:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15717 @ 0.00047783 = 7.5101 BTC [-]

05:59:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.00047388 = 15.8039 BTC [-] {5}

06:58:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00047789 = 7.0728 BTC [+] {3}

07:17:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16308 @ 0.00047798 = 7.7949 BTC [+]

07:18:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7592 @ 0.00047804 = 3.6293 BTC [+]

07:20:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00047625 = 11.2871 BTC [-]

07:45:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13089 @ 0.00047804 = 6.2571 BTC [+]

08:01:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23900 @ 0.00047785 = 11.4206 BTC [-] {3}

08:03:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5834 @ 0.00047811 = 2.7893 BTC [+]

08:06:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19879 @ 0.00048274 = 9.5964 BTC [+] {3}

08:10:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58600 @ 0.00048297 = 28.302 BTC [+] {2}

08:11:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4197 @ 0.0004813 = 2.02 BTC [-]

08:27:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22250 @ 0.00047829 = 10.642 BTC [-] {3}

08:50:46 davout: ohai all

08:51:15 BingoBoingo: hai

08:52:08 punkman: bon dia

08:52:28 davout: tlp article "Academics Hide Drug Company Payments" pretty interesting, and definitely not limited to pharma

08:53:04 davout: kept relating it to other flavors of stupidity while reading it

09:02:37 punkman: http://www.hebaamin.com/arabian-street-artists-bomb-homeland-why-we-hacked-an-award-winning-series/

09:05:53 punkman: might as well be "viral marketing" from the studio that runs that

09:08:21 punkman: https://citizenlab.org/2015/10/mapping-finfishers-continuing-proliferation/

09:08:23 assbot: Pay No Attention to the Server Behind the Proxy: Mapping FinFisher’s Continuing Proliferation - The Citizen Lab ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDdmMh )

09:11:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30750 @ 0.00047407 = 14.5777 BTC [-] {4}

09:21:55 davout: punkman: aka "the dangers of getting asian stuff inked"

09:22:42 funkenstein_: http://dpaste.com/0MJK5WR <-- this noob (/me) can't figure out how that was made

09:22:43 assbot: dpaste: 0MJK5WR ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDfpjk )

09:23:42 davout: funkenstein_: what was?

09:23:56 funkenstein_: gpg encrypted message for "everyone"

09:24:42 funkenstein_: just ascii armor i guess but how to make it?

09:25:46 davout: looks signed and armored

09:25:49 davout: not encrypted

09:26:19 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_ punkman davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299284 will stay open for at least a few more hours if anyone wants to give it a try

09:26:19 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 03:18:30; BingoBoingo: Seriously if anyone wants a ready packed "My First Qntra Piece" http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12538849.html

09:26:33 davout: http://dpaste.com/10DHB52

09:26:39 assbot: dpaste: 10DHB52 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDfROq )

09:27:25 davout: $11mn pre-money. lol.

09:28:34 davout: "when it completes its anticipated Series A funding in the first half of 2016." <<< sure.

09:28:48 funkenstein_: aha thanks davout, so "gpg --sign -a mytext.txt" is how it was made

09:35:08 funkenstein_: "For the 9 months ended 30 September 2015 Factom had gross sales of US$628,337 (resulting in a trading loss of US$358,142 for the period). "

09:35:31 funkenstein_: sorry Bingo I can't figure out whats going on here :P

09:35:46 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Story is what happened to the crowdfunders...

09:35:55 BingoBoingo: Already in log

09:36:39 davout: !s factom

09:36:40 assbot: 2 results for 'factom' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=factom

09:36:42 funkenstein_: well then those are some gross sales

09:37:38 davout: BingoBoingo: pls to point

09:38:47 BingoBoingo: davout: Crowdfunders got converted to vaporware "software licensees" not really urgent or important. Just opportunity for anyone who wants to try sharpening their vitriol.

09:39:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00047213 = 4.9574 BTC [-] {2}

09:42:48 davout: aha, so crowdfunders supposed to get stock, but end up with worthless factom tokens

09:43:46 davout: so basically the first crowdsale scam is used to pimp the financial reports of the company, in order to pull off the second scam, the the seed round

09:43:49 davout: fucking brilliant

09:48:18 BingoBoingo: <davout> aha, so crowdfunders supposed to get stock, but end up with worthless factom tokens << NOt even tokens, licenses

09:48:48 BingoBoingo: But yeah. Easy way for someone who wants to test their outrage organ to try a qntra.

09:52:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00047183 = 9.7197 BTC [-] {4}

09:52:46 HeySteve: https://beyondbitcoin.org/charles-hoskinson-critiques-bitshares-technology-adoption-management-and-respect/

09:52:46 assbot: Charles Hoskinson Critiques BitShares Technology, Adoption, Management and Respect - Beyondbitcoin.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1GIbuLP )

09:54:40 punkman: BingoBoingo: I think "software license" was there because they didn't want to say "coin"

09:55:19 BingoBoingo: punkman: That is a poor way to be a charitable reader.

09:59:25 HeySteve: I'm interested in BTS for a project to secure rental deposits using cryptocurrency

10:00:34 HeySteve: alternatives methods involve centralised services

10:00:56 punkman: BingoBoingo: the "1500 software purchasers" refers to buyers of their token sale, not the equity sale

10:01:23 BingoBoingo: Are you sure?

10:01:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.0004711 = 5.8181 BTC [-]

10:01:30 punkman: https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2087/_factom-inc-bringing-the-blockchain-to-business.html

10:01:32 assbot: Factom Inc. - Bringing the Blockchain to Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiCUjq )

10:01:57 punkman: they also sold 7.8% of their shares to a 3rd party which then sold to 406 crowdfunders

10:02:43 BingoBoingo: There's subtleties to this mess

10:03:11 punkman: whoever wrote the londonstockexchange announcement just looked at the coindesk article

10:04:15 BingoBoingo: Or did they write the coindesk article?

10:04:24 BingoBoingo: Or some other sort of inbreeding

10:04:25 BingoBoingo: ?

10:07:46 punkman: also Factom Foundation and Factom Inc are supposedly separate entities

10:08:48 punkman: so I guess first token sale was done by the "Foundation", then "Inc" sold some more tokens and equity

10:09:51 BingoBoingo: There's a lotta scamception here, yes

10:10:41 BingoBoingo: But if any actual person is losing their shirt to Factom it is too late to save them.

10:14:47 shinohai: I still want to do a Qntra piece BingoBoingo, dunno if I can do a factom story. Wow though.

10:15:14 BingoBoingo: Give it a try. I'll be sleeping soon. No hurry.

10:20:02 punkman: shinohai: well if you go for it, here's a starting point http://blog.factom.org/post/113836562744/announcing-the-factom-software-sale

10:20:08 assbot: Factom — Announcing the Factom Software Sale ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiFohy )

10:26:18 davout: punkman: wow, the foundation vs. inc thing does sound scammy as fuck. in addition to the business model itself that is :D

10:27:18 punkman: this proliferation of "javascript required" blank pages is getting annoying

10:27:44 punkman: I think I should make a little script that does the reverse, if you have js turned on, it deletes all the page contents

10:31:48 punkman: meanwhiles google no longer gives a fuck http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2015/10/deprecating-our-ajax-crawling-scheme.html

10:31:49 assbot: Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Deprecating our AJAX crawling scheme ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiGRoe )

10:37:42 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3oqmzc/malleability_stresstests_and_other_bitcoin/

10:37:43 assbot: Malleability, stress-tests and other Bitcoin problems. AMA : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiHE8H )

10:46:16 davout: guy rings on doorbells before running away laughing, "i can nuke your mansion"?

10:47:10 davout: either extremely stupid, or subtly trolling /r/buttcoin

10:55:53 shinohai: Trolling everyone that will listen, wasn't that the motherboard attention whore ?

10:59:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.0004782 = 11.9072 BTC [+] {3}

11:08:04 davout: shinohai: looks like it

11:10:12 jurov: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/haldermanheninger/how-is-nsa-breaking-so-much-crypto/

11:10:13 assbot: How is NSA breaking so much crypto? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lm3G4h )

11:10:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00047737 = 8.1153 BTC [-] {3}

11:10:37 jurov: "For the most common strength of Diffie-Hellman (1024 bits), it would cost a few hundred million dollars to build a machine, based on special purpose hardware, that would be able to crack one Diffie-Hellman prime every year."

11:20:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00047989 = 2.5914 BTC [+]

11:25:50 jurov: ;;isup qntra.net

11:25:56 gribble: qntra.net is up

11:46:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21450 @ 0.00047676 = 10.2265 BTC [-]

11:52:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23775 @ 0.00048029 = 11.4189 BTC [+] {3}

12:25:38 davout: jurov: pretty interdasting

12:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20528 @ 0.00047529 = 9.7568 BTC [-] {3}

12:57:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7484 @ 0.0004729 = 3.5392 BTC [-] {2}

13:06:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00047191 = 9.6034 BTC [-] {2}

13:45:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00048121 = 12.8724 BTC [+] {3}

14:18:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17790 @ 0.00047524 = 8.4545 BTC [-]

14:23:57 shinohai: LAWL >>> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/10/14/illinois_lottery_short_on_cash_starts_paying_ious.html

14:24:03 assbot: Illinois lottery short on cash starts paying IOUs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k7dw3h )

14:25:02 davout: "paying"

14:31:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.00047262 = 14.604 BTC [-]

14:34:21 shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COUfYy8UsAA8TWF.png

14:34:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1k7eMn6 )

14:39:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6031 @ 0.00047262 = 2.8504 BTC [-]

14:51:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114300 @ 0.00047871 = 54.7166 BTC [+] {8}

15:09:12 mircea_popescu: o look at that, time for the monthly ddos fraudsters exercise in futility ?

15:12:24 jurov: dig qntra.net @ gets SERVFAIL

15:12:30 jurov: from here

15:12:57 jurov: fraudsters.com same

15:13:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299295 << except we weren't discussing iceboxes, we were discussing iphones ; and "casinos" and business organizers bought on time.

15:13:25 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 03:22:38; asciilifeform: but how is this a cargo cult? what i'm seeing is a very small but functioning airplane

15:13:29 mircea_popescu: or at least i was at any rate.

15:13:49 mircea_popescu: jurov aha.

15:16:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299303 << all soviets forever produce record productions of products.

15:16:38 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 03:27:48; asciilifeform: advertise 'we sold ten tonnes of meat', but no reason to mention what % is maggot

15:16:41 mircea_popescu: it's the thing.

15:18:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299334 << hola. will be sending your thing later today!

15:18:11 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 08:50:46; davout: ohai all

15:19:26 davout: a happiness is me

15:19:32 mircea_popescu: lol

15:19:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00048433 = 10.2678 BTC [+] {4}

15:36:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00048608 = 13.1242 BTC [+] {3}

15:42:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299369 << reddit did this exact thing.

15:42:53 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 09:42:48; davout: aha, so crowdfunders supposed to get stock, but end up with worthless factom tokens

15:42:59 mircea_popescu: sec had nothing to say on the topic.

15:45:20 mircea_popescu: assbot: Malleability, stress-tests and other Bitcoin problems. << "me being fat, stupid, and other problems of reality"

15:45:48 mircea_popescu: yeah, im totally ultra-sure bitcoin cares about all the particular way people who got their egos wounded by it misunderstand or misrepresent it.

15:47:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299428 <<< bwhahaha.

15:47:02 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 14:24:03; assbot: Illinois lottery short on cash starts paying IOUs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k7dw3h )

15:47:19 mircea_popescu: this isn't a scam however.

15:47:27 mircea_popescu: it's only a scam if not-government does it.

15:47:33 mircea_popescu: if government does it, it's governance.

15:53:05 phf: but no reason to mention what % is maggot << no reason because su had maggot % written into GOSTs. any more or less, and you're vreditel and counterrevolutionary. in america all meat has maggots because customers come to expect, unless you buy at gourmet store in which case ask specifically for "maggot free"

15:53:59 mircea_popescu: lol insufficient maggot in meat wrecking natl economy!

15:54:26 mircea_popescu: tru to life too. "he tried to make the trains wear out the rail!"

15:55:25 mircea_popescu: "For the nerds in the audience, here?s what?s wrong: If a client and server are speaking Diffie-Hellman, they first need to agree on a large prime number with a particular form. There seemed to be no reason why everyone couldn?t just use the same prime, and, in fact, many applications tend to use standardized or hard-coded primes. But there was a very important detail that got lost in translation between the math

15:55:25 mircea_popescu: ematicians and the practitioners: an adversary can perform a single enormous computation to ?crack? a particular prime, then easily break any individual connection that uses that prime."

15:55:26 mircea_popescu: derp.

15:56:13 *: mircea_popescu vaguely remembers an obscure discussion about exponents and whatnot, which consisted of a guy asking on some derp social media sites about one of my articles, and getting an "expert" answer within hours.

15:56:40 mircea_popescu: much to everyone's feigned surprise, ITS THE STANDARDS, STUPID.

16:13:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00048301 = 1.7388 BTC [-]

16:16:27 shinohai: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/10/14/d-c-church-says-a-bike-lane-would-infringe-upon-its-constitutional-rights-of-religious-freedom/

16:16:28 assbot: D.C. church says a bike lane would infringe upon its constitutional ‘rights of religious freedom’ - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Msc4PA )

16:17:11 punkman: is it the Church of Hamplanets?

16:19:26 shinohai: xD

16:20:20 mircea_popescu: win

16:20:26 mircea_popescu: fucking bike lanes.

16:21:26 davout: "The parking loss would place an unconstitutionally undue burden on people who want to pray, the church argues"

16:21:37 shinohai: I suppose it never occurred to them to pray about it, leave it in God's hands and all.

16:21:43 shinohai: ./s

16:21:49 davout: nutjobs

16:22:28 mircea_popescu: lol

16:23:03 mircea_popescu: argentina is pretty much the only place i've seen that has the sanity to cut bike lanes out of the street. everyone seems to always cut them out of fucking sidewalks.

16:23:35 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/images/me.JPG

16:23:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MscCFl )

16:23:38 davout: dutch bike lanes, best bike lanes

16:23:44 davout: fietspads yo

16:24:52 davout: the netherlands, the place where they cut roads from bike lanes

16:25:28 mircea_popescu: i see a road and a sidewalk

16:25:30 davout: "Là, tout n'est qu'ordre et beauté, Luxe, calme et volupté."

16:25:38 mircea_popescu: and if a bunch of biking fucktards move on that sidewalk ima start carrying a billy club

16:26:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3232 @ 0.00047495 = 1.535 BTC [-]

16:27:08 shinohai: There was a guy lived a few streets over that got locked up for throwing water-filled condoms at any Mexican that rode by his house on a bike.

16:27:47 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

16:28:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: caltrops!

16:28:32 davout: such haet

16:28:59 mircea_popescu: no but i fucking hate that shit. "you know what we'll do to fix the problem of dumbass cars encroaching on pedestrian everything ? we'll make cheaper cvasi-cars so all the dumbass hipsters who can't afford a car can still get in your way"

16:29:39 mircea_popescu: i occasionally ~used to~ have altercation with dumbass bike derps who not only were on the sidewalk but had the unmitigated audacity to ring their dumbass bell.

16:29:57 davout: lol

16:30:03 mircea_popescu: i suppose i looked enough like i was gonna fucking kill them on the spot that they bitched and ran off each time, but hot damned i regret not having fed one his wheel.

16:30:27 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i always found it peculiar that bicycles are permitted on normal roads where i live - but not horses

16:30:31 mircea_popescu: "oh, the town house painted a line on the sidewalk so it's half bycicle route now"

16:30:32 mircea_popescu: "ima paint a line on your ass so it's half train depot"

16:30:33 ascii_field: horse is faster

16:30:43 shinohai: I have a bike, but around here you just ride in the damned street. I only use mine downtown to *avoid* traffic

16:30:48 ascii_field: bicyclist causes column of cars behind him to waste far more fuel than he ever could hope to save

16:31:28 mircea_popescu: fuck the whole lot of them, but if im running into bikers on the sidewalk ima get hteir heads.

16:32:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, i must confess in this respect ba is very mp-conformant.

16:33:06 mircea_popescu: nice wide sidewalks, and the biking nonsense is mostly in palermo (fucktard/ustard/libtard ghetto, where the diners have no service and the girls no sense of the cock.)

16:33:48 davout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iudb0amH0sY <<< bike lanes look sane

16:33:49 assbot: Attempted robbery at gunpoint caught on GoPro!!! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Msdt8V )

16:34:07 phf: i like alleycat races..

16:34:48 davout: anyway, best bike, is motor bike

16:36:07 davout: highway's left lane, best bike lane

16:36:26 mircea_popescu: eh get an unicycle.

16:37:14 mike_c: ascii_field: bicycles don't crap in the street.

16:37:17 shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lijLYuw-o <<< mircea_popescu if the were bicyclists

16:37:18 assbot: A Bronx Tale "now youse cant leave" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MsdKbO )

16:37:22 shinohai: *they

16:37:43 mircea_popescu: lol

16:38:06 mircea_popescu: mike_c it's kinda good if you think about it. ma-nure. ma, which is good...

16:38:47 mike_c: polyglot jokes go straight over my head :)

16:39:04 ascii_field: mike_c: cars (at least as seen in usa) ~do~ shit on the street

16:39:19 mike_c: they do, and the oil is annoying, but it doesn't smell as bad.

16:39:22 ascii_field: not oil

16:39:28 ascii_field: rubbish thrown from window

16:40:27 mike_c: yes, but shit metaphorically is not as bad as shit actually.

16:41:11 mircea_popescu: "The force for this change isn't coming from safety or ethics. Neither is it activism. If you see any group advocating influentially for change in a media they don't own or control, you can double down and split the 10s, the dealer is holding status and quo. No change is possible on someone else's dime, and if what looks like a supermodel approaches you with a microphone and a camera crew, you should run like she's Joh

16:41:11 mircea_popescu: nny Carcosa. On occasion what the activists think they want may happen coincidentally to align with what the system wants, and from that moment on they will be lead to believe they are making a difference, which means they're making money for someone else.

16:41:11 mircea_popescu: [...]

16:41:13 mircea_popescu: Keeping in mind that actual stalking has never been dealt with in any significant way ever, the desire of a few female writers to curb online anonymity wouldn't be enough to get an @ mention, except that this happens to coincide with what the media wants, and now we have the two vectors summing to form a public health crisis. "Cyberbullying is a huge problem!" Yes, but not because it is hurtful, HA! no one cares about

16:41:18 mircea_popescu: your feelings-- but because criticism makes women want to be more private-- and the privacy of the women is bad. The women have to be online, they do most of the clicking and receive most of the clicks. Anonymous cyberbullying is a barrier to increasing consumption, it's gotta go."

16:41:22 mircea_popescu: ha!

16:41:24 mircea_popescu: i was looking for this, yesterday.

16:42:24 davout: shinohai: pretty cool

16:42:26 mircea_popescu: the funny thing about "groups advocating influentially in media they don't own or control" is that the famelic good for nothing hipsters propose that THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY. ie, being someone's cockpuppet is somehow worthy, whereas if trump writes "fuck you" in his own fucking magazine, that's somehow "not fair" and you know, of "lesser value".

16:43:00 mircea_popescu: and THEN they wanna be all "successful", or perceived as such, because hey, of the 5000 of them, one's necessarily gonna dribble in the general direction of future events by sheer happenstance - that's your successful dude!11

16:43:02 mircea_popescu: nuts.

16:43:42 shinohai: davout One of teh best movies evah

16:44:39 mircea_popescu: If Hess has made you wonder, hmm, maybe unrestricted anonymity is bad because it gives trolls too much power, then the system has successfully used her for its true purpose: brand it as bad, to you. She is unwittingly teaching the demo of this article, e.g. women in their 20s with no actual power looking to establish themselves, who are the very people who should embrace anonymity, not to want this: only rapists and to

16:44:39 mircea_popescu: o-weak-to-try rapists want to be anonymous. Smart women write clickable articles about their sexuality for nothing, because what good are you if you can't make someone else money? Interesting to observe that the article's single suggested solution to cyberharassment is to reframe a criminal problem into a civil rights issue using a logic so preposterously adolescent that if you laid this on your Dad when you were 16 he

16:44:40 mircea_popescu: 'd backhand slap you right out of the glee club: "it discourages women from writing and earning a living online." Earning a living? From who, Gawker? Most of the women writing on the internet are writing for someone else who pays them next to nothing.

16:45:05 mircea_popescu: anyway. im done with spamming ballas before i end up with his entire collected works in the log.

16:45:40 ascii_field: we might already have them all in the log

16:45:50 ascii_field: (as with naggum)

16:46:39 mircea_popescu: in triplicate!

16:49:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25113 @ 0.00047186 = 11.8498 BTC [-] {3}

16:50:41 davout: this kinda sounded familiar

16:51:16 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998598 <<< that's why heh

16:51:16 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 17:27:51; mircea_popescu: oo-weak-to-try rapists want to be anonymous. Smart women write clickable articles about their sexuality for nothing, because what good are you if you can't make someone else money? Interesting to observe that the article's single suggested solution to cyberharassment is to reframe a criminal problem into a civil rights issue using a logic so preposterously adolescent that if you laid this on your Dad

16:52:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5778 @ 0.00047301 = 2.7331 BTC [+]

16:52:33 davout: http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2015/10/15/20005-20151015ARTFIG00087-volkswagen-l-allemagne-ordonne-le-rappel-de-24-millions-de-voitures.php <<< and so it begins

16:52:35 assbot: L'Allemagne se fâche, Volkswagen rappelle 8,5 millions de véhicules

16:53:58 ascii_field: and what, idiots will eagerly bring'em in for crippleware reflash ?

16:54:09 davout: apparently that's the plan

16:54:33 ascii_field: or does fr refuse citizens the sacred freedom to pollute ?

16:54:43 mircea_popescu: i guess we get to find out how american europeans are these days

16:55:55 davout: we do have occasional pollution checks

16:56:19 shinohai: http://www.vice.com/read/the-philippines-is-still-pissed-off-that-vancouver-is-using-it-as-a-giant-garbage-bin-vgtrn <<< Canada likes pollution

16:56:25 assbot: The Philippines Is Still Pissed Off That Canada Is Using It as a Giant Garbage Bin | VICE | United States ... ( http://bit.ly/1OFrrcb )

17:02:58 davout: http://www.lemonde.fr/education/article/2015/10/15/en-moselle-des-enfants-testent-des-fusils-d-assaut-dans-leur-ecole_4790463_1473685.html <<< win

17:02:59 assbot: En Moselle, des enfants testent des fusils d’assaut dans leur école ... ( http://bit.ly/1OFsSas )

17:15:55 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:16:00 ascii_field: ;;isup qntra.net

17:16:06 gribble: qntra.net is up

17:16:09 ascii_field: mno

17:18:48 mircea_popescu: haha what, you got a host to suggest ?

17:19:56 ascii_field: not presently

17:20:22 mircea_popescu: in other b-a news : world infrastructure is shit. in all respects, at every turn, everything.

17:20:31 ascii_field: ny000z at 11!

17:20:36 mircea_popescu: and bike is the new car.

17:20:49 ascii_field: mno, grinding wheel is the new car

17:21:32 mircea_popescu: iirc they had flying cars in the 20s, but then the socialists wanted to supress them and pretend like the street going car is the thing to get because that was all you can afford.

17:21:44 mircea_popescu: hitler didn't want to go for this so they invaded germany to saddam hussein him.

17:22:03 mircea_popescu: and now even cars are too much for the socialist derp to afford. so make way for the much "better" bike!

17:25:19 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299466 << dh is an atavistic barbarism

17:25:19 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 15:55:25; mircea_popescu: ematicians and the practitioners: an adversary can perform a single enormous computation to ?crack? a particular prime, then easily break any individual connection that uses that prime."

17:26:05 mircea_popescu: this is also why we use 4096.

17:26:09 mircea_popescu: not so clear how much longer.

17:26:15 ascii_field: and, to the extent it is used as popularly imagined ('two parties with no prior relation') easily mitmable and impossible to use as intended even in principle.

17:26:36 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: we don't use dh!

17:26:38 ascii_field: at least ~i~ don't

17:27:42 ascii_field: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Diffie-HellmanProtocol.html << for n00bz

17:27:44 assbot: Diffie-Hellman Protocol -- from Wolfram MathWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1OFyl0R )

17:28:00 mircea_popescu: its in ssh innit ?

17:28:44 ascii_field: it is traditionally in it, yes

17:28:50 ascii_field: but ssh is a very configurable animal.

17:29:30 mircea_popescu: but you're still going to use what the server can use.

17:29:38 ascii_field: (a civilized setup will have rsa backing on both sides)

17:29:48 mircea_popescu: my browser is also a very configurable animal, and the configuration mostly results in blank pages and "your site can't be used" emails.

17:30:25 ascii_field: i can't recall the last time i ssh'd to something which i did not either set up personally or know the keeper of in meatspace.

17:30:49 ascii_field: well, come to think of it, i can...

17:31:23 ascii_field: RIP dulap

17:35:25 mircea_popescu: how do you personally set up servers other than in physical proximity ?

17:35:43 mircea_popescu: (i'm asking to learn!)

17:35:49 ascii_field: one traditional method is the spot-welder school of thought.

17:36:24 ascii_field: (configure the box, weld, deliver to pedestal)

17:37:04 mircea_popescu: but you gotta be physically there.

17:37:39 ascii_field: why?

17:38:18 mircea_popescu: how do you weld at a distance ?

17:38:31 ascii_field: you configure and weld at home.

17:38:34 ascii_field: then post the box.

17:38:48 ascii_field: (with courier, naturally)

17:38:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00048231 = 12.2507 BTC [+]

17:39:36 ascii_field: ideally, you carry it to its resting place and arm the motion sensor personally.

17:40:03 ascii_field: (lose keys if dislodged, etc)

17:40:20 mircea_popescu: is this pretty much an exercise in runaway complexity ?

17:40:25 ascii_field: no

17:40:48 ascii_field: it is an exercise in approximating a solution where no clean solution exists.

17:40:52 mircea_popescu: where do you buy the motion sensors ?

17:41:03 mircea_popescu: this happens to be THE definition of runaway complexity.

17:42:19 mircea_popescu: let's go at it the other way. first, historical recount :

17:42:54 ascii_field: i see nothing 'runaway' about it. i can personally name five vendors for piezoelectric gyro, magnetometric, etc. sensors just from my head

17:42:55 mircea_popescu: so we decided more or less on a lark to phuctor/s.nsa server. on the general expectation that hey, "commodified market" means you get stuff and it works and forget about it.

17:43:00 ascii_field: and none cost more than 20bux

17:43:37 mircea_popescu: it turns out that this is not true : "commodified market" actually means that there is no market - you can either not have a server and think you don't have a server ; or else not have a server and think you have a server. those two, no third and sure as fuck no having servers.

17:44:01 mircea_popescu: seems a little twisting the screw is in order. fine. how do we go about it ?

17:44:06 mircea_popescu: but reasonably, mind.

17:44:09 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: and to think, we could have carried on 'thinking we have a server' if phuctor had found nothing.

17:44:18 mircea_popescu: indeed.

17:44:48 mircea_popescu: so the correct approach here would be for coloing boxes you personaly doctor and fedex to location ?

17:44:59 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what would it cost to house it in physical plant you actually own ?

17:45:16 mircea_popescu: i don't want to connect these, so infinity.

17:45:48 mircea_popescu: but this is implementation, i was discussing design

17:45:49 ascii_field: know anyone who might ?

17:46:22 mircea_popescu: who might ? dozens of people.

17:46:31 mircea_popescu: might is the mind killer.

17:46:40 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:47:12 ascii_field: ... design ?

17:47:23 ascii_field: as in, what to place in the crate ?

17:47:42 mircea_popescu: no, of the process.

17:48:25 ascii_field: process, much as i am loathe to admit it, would have to involve an airplane and a trip to some godforsaken pesthole.

17:48:44 ascii_field: because fedex is an invitation to hitler's can opener

17:49:11 mircea_popescu: basically, trying rto sound out a sort of "b-a best practices hardware server upbringing"

17:49:27 ascii_field: but iirc mircea_popescu asked for 'reasonable'

17:49:38 mircea_popescu: as a last ditch before going "fuck this shit, all our things are to be held on zombie computers"

17:53:04 ascii_field: at any rate, the procedure i suggested is only half a solution. because it merely helps to establish the fact of the betrayal ('caught man-sized figure moving near cabinet, power lost in 3 seconds'; 'chassis lost power for 10 minutes, moves three metres' etc)

17:53:12 ascii_field: but can do nothing else.

17:53:26 ascii_field: still stuck with the misery of moving from host to host.

17:53:41 mircea_popescu: more importantly, how about some basic skuldulgery on the boards ?

17:53:54 mircea_popescu: like, physically cut the races for impi or w/e bullshit.\

17:54:08 ascii_field: trivial

17:54:30 ascii_field: but there is no reason anyone should be able to get inside the box without triggering the scram.

17:54:32 mircea_popescu: this sort of thing. costs nothing to do, completely blows minds on the other side.

17:54:43 mircea_popescu: whart do you care, scram.

17:54:54 mircea_popescu: the point is not to protect who knows what secrets that shouldn't be there anyway.

17:55:01 mircea_popescu: the point is to entice the enemy into spending his shirt.

17:55:08 ascii_field: then my cameraball.

17:55:13 mircea_popescu: (something he's more than willing to do - hey, needs more budget)

17:55:16 ascii_field: (see ancient thread)

17:55:28 mircea_popescu: you want a saltwater datacenter ?

17:55:37 ascii_field: wouldn't that be spiffy

17:55:42 mircea_popescu: notrly.

17:56:35 ascii_field: cameraball is a hypothetical device consisting of sealed pyrex sphere with two fish-eye cameras inside. charged and addressed via induction coil. contains a certain amount of eeprom, signs each frame with rsa key, which is zeroed if the glass is penetrated.

17:56:50 mircea_popescu: dude srsly.

17:56:56 ascii_field: srsly.

17:56:57 mircea_popescu: who's gonna watch the cameras, moiety ?

17:57:03 ascii_field: not real time

17:57:08 ascii_field: you drop a few in the crate.

17:57:10 mircea_popescu: stop solving the sexy problems.

17:57:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00047301 = 2.6252 BTC [-]

17:57:22 mircea_popescu: there's actual problems ripe for solving.

17:57:22 ascii_field: if they are molested or missing - you know the crate was.

17:57:27 mircea_popescu: was what ?

17:57:33 ascii_field: molested.

17:57:35 mircea_popescu: so ?

17:57:44 mircea_popescu: file a complaint with fedex ?

17:57:58 mircea_popescu: im not spending 50k in fisheye to be able to make a ten cent report.

17:58:37 ascii_field: camera is expensive, compared to doing nothing. cheap compared to sending men on airplanes.

17:58:50 mircea_popescu: is there such a thing as thermo-conducive epoxy ?

17:59:02 ascii_field: sure

17:59:05 ascii_field: got a tube right here.

17:59:11 mircea_popescu: how much is it ?

17:59:13 ascii_field: (silver flakes)

17:59:23 ascii_field: costs about what silver costs, per g.

17:59:52 mircea_popescu: so if i do something like, "cut raqces, submerge board in 1U epoxy" its gonna cost me > 200 each

18:00:13 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: board will not function. thermoconductive epoxy is electroconductive.

18:00:28 ascii_field: and at any rate will add parasitic capacitance to mb traces.

18:01:06 ascii_field: epoxy 'potting' went out of fashion in '70s for this reason.

18:01:58 *: ascii_field pictures 'kakobreklaa' in finland

18:03:14 ascii_field: 'Korsuissa kamina, / siellä pelataan nakkia, raminaa, / on meillä Fritzit ja Maxit / ja Petropamaxit, juu!' (tm) (r) (1941)

18:03:27 kakobrekla: hehe

18:04:27 kakobrekla: speaking of fish eye, i have a 183 degrees lens buried somewhere

18:05:29 kakobrekla: much better results are obtained with taking more less wide shots + stitching

18:05:58 ascii_field: kakobrekla: hypothetical device in question is a small sphere, the size of golf ball

18:06:03 ascii_field: needs to see in all directions.

18:06:12 ascii_field: has no moving parts

18:06:31 phf: is this another one of those technical solutions for counterparty problem?

18:06:37 kakobrekla: sorta like http://www6.pcmag.com/media/images/413251-hands-on-panono-panoramic-ball-camera.jpg?thumb=y

18:06:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LQBETY )

18:07:04 ascii_field: kakobrekla: something like.

18:07:22 ascii_field: preferably smaller, cheaper, doesn't even need to see in all directions if you have 50 of them in the box.

18:07:29 ascii_field: (use instead of packing peanuts!)

18:09:38 shinohai: When ascii_field gets arrested: "We got his hard drive!" https://i.imgur.com/qSPQ0RR.jpg

18:09:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LQBXhE )

18:10:36 kakobrekla: Does ti have a countdown timer?

18:10:41 shinohai: I don't doubt that a real FBI agent might say the same.

18:10:47 ascii_field: recipe: own a crate with 10,000 eproms.

18:10:57 ascii_field: after your hanging, ~somebody~ will have to read'em...

18:28:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31700 @ 0.00047293 = 14.9919 BTC [-] {2}

18:40:39 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:40:43 ascii_field: http://cr.yp.to/nfscircuit/lsttgap.html << lulzy

18:40:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvAjBU )

18:40:47 mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> much better results are obtained with taking more less wide shots + stitching << i wouild expect.

18:41:26 mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> Does ti have a countdown timer? << and wires sticking out.

18:41:41 mircea_popescu: !up brbsoup

18:41:50 shinohai: People try to hack anything on github: http://postopcare.github.io/

18:41:50 assbot: Postop (SRS) Care 101 ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvAs8i )

18:42:18 ascii_field: ugh

18:42:29 mircea_popescu: anyway if anyone had a qntra emergency...

18:46:46 mircea_popescu: davout http://dpaste.com/1YWYXG6

18:46:48 assbot: dpaste: 1YWYXG6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvAYmB )

18:49:07 shinohai: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/haldermanheninger/how-is-nsa-breaking-so-much-crypto/

18:49:10 assbot: How is NSA breaking so much crypto? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lm3G4h )

18:49:31 ascii_field: shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299412

18:49:31 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 11:10:12; jurov: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/haldermanheninger/how-is-nsa-breaking-so-much-crypto/

18:50:51 shinohai: missed

19:09:32 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299703 < would you also expect this was not the case even 10 years ago

19:09:32 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 18:40:47; mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> much better results are obtained with taking more less wide shots + stitching << i wouild expect.

19:09:55 mircea_popescu: nope

19:14:42 jurov: 1. how do you detect glass is penetrated? 2. they can open the package in darkness

19:15:13 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:15:27 ascii_field: jurov: both are solvable problems.

19:16:33 mircea_popescu: !b 1

19:16:34 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X9YER9.txt )

19:16:40 mircea_popescu: no, it's good, seriously.

19:17:25 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299401 ... case in point: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296386

19:17:25 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 10:27:18; punkman: this proliferation of "javascript required" blank pages is getting annoying

19:17:25 assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 19:28:30; jurov: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13812 today another chapter of "world goes to shit"

19:17:48 jurov: it started as wiki based on plain .txt files

19:18:06 jurov: started to use it for personal stuff

19:18:11 mircea_popescu: they improved it ?

19:18:16 jurov: after some 10 years.. you don't want to know

19:18:18 ascii_field: luserz 'have come to expect' js !!11

19:18:48 mircea_popescu: "But, yes, Foswiki is becoming more dependent on JavaScript. I doubt that this is going to change."

19:18:51 mircea_popescu: da fuck is wrong with them.

19:19:00 mircea_popescu: why, so it can compete with... 500 other implementations ?

19:19:10 mircea_popescu: us gotta switch to teaching strategy in school.

19:19:33 mircea_popescu: "Browsers without javascript aren't supported by Foswiki out of the box. We once decided to assume that nowadays everybody should have access to a sufficiantly standard browser that implements javascript. Of course this was different 15 years ago when we still had to deal with IE6 and the like. But as almost all vendors constantly move forward in web standards. So we then decided to strip off the burden of having to su

19:19:33 mircea_popescu: pport browsers without javascript and rapidly moved forward. "

19:19:43 mircea_popescu: i can't even.

19:22:42 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://wpressutexas.net/cs378h/images/4/49/How_to_even_for_dummies.jpg << have some help!

19:22:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QxWbe3 )

19:24:06 mircea_popescu: my computer is not that shape or color.

19:24:13 mircea_popescu: and the girl's got less clothes more tits.

19:24:14 ascii_field: then will not work.

19:24:18 mircea_popescu: i need a better jewscript book

19:24:29 jurov: From the author of "How to accidentally" bestseller!!1

19:24:36 mircea_popescu: lol

19:25:01 mircea_popescu: yesterday i accidentallied a router. it only took on the third stomp tho.

19:25:25 mike_c: sometimes javascript is useful.

19:25:27 *: mike_c ducks

19:25:45 mircea_popescu: did he just use javascript.duck() ?

19:26:00 mike_c: $(this).duck()

19:26:02 mircea_popescu: sorry mike, your pubic hair's now on fire. seek er.

19:26:28 mike_c: gotta have some jquery with your javascript

19:27:45 mike_c: i don't even think it'll matter much longer. html5 will present all the necessary security holes you need in plain old html

19:28:42 punkman: it would be nice if we could at least have a video library without remote code execution holes

19:28:52 mike_c: <canvas><audio><video></video></audio></canvas>

19:29:03 punkman: err not remote I mean

19:29:33 punkman: but you know, how about I can open mp4 file without getting pwned

19:31:02 jurov: punkman: play it on dedicated device

19:34:43 thestringpuller: like an ipod

19:45:30 ascii_field: https://secrom.com << l0l!!! this still exists?!

19:45:32 assbot: Portal Home - SECROM ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxIcHJ )

19:45:39 ascii_field: ^ classical 1990s-style cryptosnakeoil

19:52:30 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:52:35 ascii_field: https://publicintelligence.net/its-dangerous-fighting-isis << lulzy

19:52:36 assbot: The Dangers of Traveling Overseas to Fight Against the Islamic State | Public Intelligence ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxIzSw )

19:53:56 ascii_field: 'the US Government does not support US persons traveling overseas to combat ISIL.'

19:55:06 shinohai: Guess they would rather I stay home and support them.

20:00:38 ascii_field: support, oppose, usg's golems work either way.

20:00:53 mircea_popescu: ^

20:02:07 *: shinohai is *goyim*, not golem

20:04:57 mircea_popescu: da fuck does that even mean, "usg does not support"

20:04:59 mircea_popescu: who asked them ?

20:06:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00047224 = 19.9758 BTC [-] {2}

20:06:29 ascii_field: ianal, but the implication is 'no jail if you come home, but don't expect supplies or rescue if you're in a bind, or good pr'

20:12:16 ascii_field: https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-AssessingLegitimacyISIL.pdf >> http://dpaste.com/0D7G0Q3 << lulzy

20:12:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxJzWX )

20:12:19 assbot: dpaste: 0D7G0Q3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxJBxQ )

20:12:45 ascii_field: ' ISIL stickers have been identified on memorials, highway signs, and other public

20:12:45 ascii_field: venues in Arizona, Nevada, and Texas, according to open source analysis.'

20:12:50 ascii_field: oh noez.

20:17:19 mircea_popescu: oh there is that.

20:17:36 mircea_popescu: they understandably don't wanna be on the hook for every fucktard with a plane ticket.

20:17:43 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The lulz in "dating" - http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-lulz-in-dating/

20:28:11 gabrielradio: http://pastebin.com/AKUpLNvx

20:28:12 assbot: I never - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GIWL38 )

20:30:38 mircea_popescu: "nor have I ever did" ?

20:30:45 mod6: bitcoin-0.5.4beta-libressl.log.asc gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz qemu-2.0.0.tgz

20:35:08 mircea_popescu: "Eu nu am fost angajat niciodata, nicaieri." i can appreciate why you went "I've never been an employee, not to anybody, not anywhere." but really english is hemingwayan. "I've never been employed." is the way to go. less is more for the saxons.

20:35:50 gabrielradio: indeed. got it

20:36:21 mircea_popescu: holy shit, "employment record book" is a thing!

20:36:23 mircea_popescu: i had no idea.

20:38:14 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:38:26 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: afaik it was a su-only thing ?

20:38:30 ascii_field: or, no??!!!?

20:38:32 mircea_popescu: seems not.

20:38:42 ascii_field: where, then, else ?

20:39:49 ascii_field: http://www.na.rkomi.ru/IZYUROV/KOP_DOK/6/5.jpg << example

20:39:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxKV3M )

20:41:04 mircea_popescu: "I've never signed payroll, I never held a paycheck, I've never seen the various small item salesmen visit the office on pay day nor have I ever asked for a payday loan. Wider, and more importantly, I never worked against my will. Not even as a kid, doing homework."

20:41:07 mircea_popescu: sumthing like that.

20:41:36 mircea_popescu: ascii_field believe it or not... http://images-01.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/205/848/927_001.jpg

20:41:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxL1sc )

20:42:04 ascii_field: l0l!

20:42:13 ascii_field: arbeit macht frei.

20:42:32 mircea_popescu: those guys srsly don't get enough credit, everyone stole all their shit.

20:43:04 gabrielradio: mircea_popescu i see. pretty straightforward, no meddling with the words

20:43:20 mircea_popescu: it's a fine line.

20:43:21 ascii_field: 'iz zis nazi lande soo goood?! we would leave it, if we could!!' (tm) (r) (donald duck)

20:47:31 ben_vulpes: d'aww, a newish client just sent us 3 boxes of fresh cookies

20:49:36 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2015#1299791 << who the hell ever heard of an employed ammonia-atmosphere-breathing dragon

20:49:36 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 20:35:08; mircea_popescu: "Eu nu am fost angajat niciodata, nicaieri." i can appreciate why you went "I've never been an employee, not to anybody, not anywhere." but really english is hemingwayan. "I've never been employed." is the way to go. less is more for the saxons.

20:50:47 mircea_popescu: fraudsters mostly deals with the banal.

20:52:25 gabrielradio: !rate mircea_popescu 2 I get high on fraudsters

20:52:25 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/50a106d5d903481a

20:52:41 mircea_popescu: haha thatg's a new one.

20:53:25 gabrielradio: !v assbot:gabrielradio.rate.mircea_popescu.2:365fa6980f36389ab2e054244529e5e2d01d51ee1d306d607d79ab8b74be435d

20:53:25 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for mircea_popescu with note: I get high on fraudsters

20:53:49 mircea_popescu: and speaking of "addiction", and pathways and whatnot :

20:53:51 mircea_popescu: "Ask a 20 year crack addict when was the last time they used powder cocaine. Do they miss it? Are they in withdrawal? "But crack is cocaine." No, it isn't, or else they would be using both, wouldn't they? "But crack is more potent and addictive." Then why don't cocaine adicts move over to crack? "

20:54:01 mircea_popescu: apparently tlp agrees, it's all bs.

20:54:49 ascii_field: No, it isn't, or else they would be using both, wouldn't they? << i don't follow the logic

20:55:06 mircea_popescu: suppose your car can run on either water or gasoline.

20:55:11 mircea_popescu: you never run it on water.

20:55:15 mircea_popescu: even if you don't have gasoline.

20:55:16 mircea_popescu: because ?

20:55:26 ascii_field: ...?

20:55:56 mircea_popescu: "there's one so-called identified pathway and 500 non miscible so-called addictions. because this is Fantasia."

20:58:50 shinohai: @ gabrielradio Are you the Romanian interpreter ?

20:59:29 punkman: cocaine addicts do move from insufflation to smoking freebase or crack

20:59:46 ascii_field: what's the upside of the latter vs the former ?

20:59:53 punkman: at least the dedicated ones

21:00:17 punkman: insufflation is not efficient, costs more

21:01:42 gabrielradio: shinohai yea

21:02:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14394 @ 0.00047436 = 6.8279 BTC [+]

21:02:34 gabrielradio: i spend a lot reading fraudsters, why not translate the ro articles while at it

21:03:56 mircea_popescu: punkman they do ?

21:05:09 punkman: mircea_popescu: same with heroin, you start with a sniff, then move on to smoking and finally iv

21:06:56 punkman: naturally everyone has his preferences

21:07:04 shinohai: gabrielradio: I appreciate anyone willing to tackle translations.

21:07:48 gabrielradio: shinohai any article in particular you want to see translated?

21:08:15 mircea_popescu: is this something you know from some sort of direct experience ?

21:08:47 gabrielradio: i wanted to do http://fraudsters.com/2009/ce-ma-intereseaza-pe-mine-intr-un-proiect/ next

21:08:48 assbot: Ce ma intereseaza pe mine intr-un proiect. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxMmiE )

21:08:58 punkman: mircea_popescu: I've seen it

21:09:13 punkman: dunno, I suppose in some places go straight to iv

21:09:16 punkman: *kids go

21:09:24 mircea_popescu: ok, you've seen it, but chipping heroin is one thing ; cocaine as powder and as crack is a rather different thing.

21:09:24 shinohai: gabrielradio: I do not speak Romanian unfortunately so I dunno :(

21:10:01 jurov: gabrielradio: there's supposedly very popular guide to oral sex, maybe that one?

21:10:07 punkman: well I couldn't tell you the difference between powder, crack and freebase

21:10:11 mircea_popescu: at some point the argument was that pot is a "gateway drug" for that matter. a sort of kindled theory of chem addiction i guess.

21:10:21 gabrielradio: lmao, why not

21:10:44 punkman: it can be a social gateway

21:10:44 mircea_popescu: punkman i can tell you the difference. it's about $1k for half-and-half.

21:11:05 mircea_popescu: most whores do cocaine. just, the 20somethings that do lines go for about 5x the money of the 30somethings that do crack.

21:11:22 mircea_popescu: which is why the derrogatory is crack whore, not snortwhore

21:11:28 mircea_popescu: even tho snortwhore sounds pretty fucking epic

21:11:37 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:11:45 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the difference in cost is well-known. but what of effect ?

21:11:59 punkman: well surely smoking packs a harder punch

21:12:15 mircea_popescu: until the septum ruptures you can't really spot the snorter. you really can't miss the crackhead.

21:12:40 ascii_field: that'd be the side-effect. but what of the effect ?

21:12:59 ascii_field: subjectively, to the taker

21:13:11 mircea_popescu: i have nfi, i never tried crack.

21:13:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00047186 = 6.4645 BTC [-]

21:13:28 ascii_field: i had a professor who confessed to having once been a crack smoker

21:13:37 mircea_popescu: so wha was his story ?

21:13:51 ascii_field: she described it in a very peculiar and scarcely believable:

21:14:11 ascii_field: 'it was not even enjoyable, as i smoked the pipe the only thing it was possible to think about is the next pipe'

21:14:30 mircea_popescu: sounds about right.

21:14:55 mircea_popescu: i dun think it's much of a leisured passtime.

21:15:15 ascii_field: ended up (iirc) quitting when she divorced the fella who brought the crack.

21:15:50 mircea_popescu: that part's improbable as all shit, but hey.

21:16:08 ascii_field: actually it is this part that i readily believe

21:16:18 ascii_field: the 'did not enjoy' feels more of a stretch.

21:16:40 ascii_field: mircea_popescu does not appear to apprehend that it is in fact possible to have ZERO contact with 'the street'

21:17:00 mircea_popescu: you're being ridiculous.

21:17:08 mircea_popescu: stand up, strip nakled,. go downstairs.

21:17:13 mircea_popescu: you'll be in contact with the street.

21:17:20 ascii_field: i meant productive contact

21:17:25 ascii_field: as in, ability to 'score' contraband

21:17:26 mircea_popescu: nobody asks the crack whore.

21:17:44 ascii_field: but can any (female) become a 'crack whore' at will ?

21:17:49 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:17:53 mircea_popescu: and even not at will.

21:18:26 mircea_popescu: that;'s the thing with the street : it takes all.

21:18:37 mircea_popescu: that's why it's so deeply beloved, like no other thing. ultimate mother.

21:18:46 ascii_field: not so sure of this.

21:19:15 mircea_popescu: easy for you to say :)

21:19:24 mircea_popescu: ah man i've been waiting to hit someone with that for like two weeks.

21:19:55 ascii_field: i suppose this is some variant on the ru traditional 'prison is like the grave, can find room for everyone'

21:21:06 mircea_popescu: quite.

21:23:15 mircea_popescu: the executive difference being that you get sent to prison, but go to teh street.

21:24:03 mircea_popescu: incidentally : given that ~30 million americans are homeless AT ANY GIVEN POINT, and given that the life expectancy of the homeless is not terribly good, say 5-10 years, do compute the odds of your child being homeless during his lifetime kthx.

21:24:25 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is as interesting as computing the odds of being chinese.

21:24:28 mircea_popescu: social mobility has its unexpected drawbacks.

21:24:28 ascii_field: (high!!11)

21:24:31 mircea_popescu: nope.

21:24:45 mircea_popescu: you entertain the delusion that your child is like you, which is true in unmobile societies.

21:24:56 mircea_popescu: in the us, predicately, he is not like you.

21:25:10 mircea_popescu: people love to assume that means "for the better", because it briefly did and people are idiots.

21:25:16 ascii_field: think obama's progeny will ever hobo ?

21:25:19 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:25:59 ascii_field: perhaps. but my mind boggles at the picture of a hobo bush.

21:26:02 ascii_field: hobo trump.

21:26:16 mircea_popescu: trump IS an ex-hobo himself lol

21:26:25 ascii_field: ex.

21:26:42 mircea_popescu: the question wasn't about dying there.

21:27:27 ascii_field: anyway in usa it is a very simple matter, as described by herr orlov: near-everybody there is 2 or 3 missed paycheques away from hobo-dom.

21:28:08 mircea_popescu: to their great benefit.

21:28:19 ascii_field: but the present day crop of hobo is not evenly distributed, no.

21:28:20 mircea_popescu: because near-everybody there, like everywhere, is also an imbecile.

21:28:34 mircea_popescu: now, if only they had sane people in charge, doling out those missed paycheques.

21:31:13 BingoBoingo: In other news St Louis passed their 2014 homicide total today, with 2.5 months to go

21:31:55 ascii_field: https://theintercept.com/drone-papers << lulzy

21:31:57 assbot: The Drone Papers ... ( http://bit.ly/1hHrLKa )

21:37:54 gabrielradio: jurov, i think this is the one http://fraudsters.com/2012/cum-se-suge-pula-ghid-pentru-juma-de-sex-oral/ . next in line after the "what interests me in a project" one

21:37:55 assbot: Cum se suge pula - ghid pentru juma' de sex oral on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxNKSp )

21:41:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22063 @ 0.00047186 = 10.4106 BTC [-] {2}

21:42:17 mircea_popescu: that article is lulzy - it was the 2nd most read article each month since pretty much its publishing

21:42:21 mircea_popescu: 3 years ago.

21:42:23 mircea_popescu: still is today.

21:42:27 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:42:31 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 2nd ?!

21:42:35 mircea_popescu: yea

21:42:43 ascii_field: and the 1st ?

21:42:50 mircea_popescu: well it varies each month\

21:42:57 mircea_popescu: but this - no. month by month, 2nd.

21:43:41 ascii_field: 'how cock is sucked'. but engl. lacks reflexive, how to ~really~ translate ?

21:43:45 mircea_popescu: it probably served half the teens in romania by now, if numbers have any meaning.

21:43:51 mircea_popescu: i wonder if they're satisfied.

21:44:04 mircea_popescu: "how to suck the cock" i would say.

21:44:12 ascii_field: but not same meaning..

21:44:14 mircea_popescu: se is conjunctive not reflexive

21:44:28 ascii_field: hm

21:44:54 mircea_popescu: se suge = on succionne

21:45:11 ascii_field: ah.

21:45:56 jurov: http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/poll-29-of-americans-believe-armed-revolt-may-be-necessary-in-next-few-years

21:45:57 assbot: Poll: 29% of Americans Believe Armed Revolt May Be Necessary in Next Few Years... | RedFlag News ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxOhUn )

21:46:16 mircea_popescu: did they ask more than 10 people (in texas) ?

21:46:33 ascii_field: and what if answer is 'it was necessary in 1934' ?

21:47:30 ascii_field: from same publication: 'How To Destroy Any Attacker In Seconds Using Only Your Bare Hands.'

21:47:42 ascii_field: 'This 1 Simple Trick "Fixes" Your Erectile Dysfunction.'

21:47:44 ascii_field: etc.

21:47:53 mircea_popescu: same in wapo.

21:48:05 ascii_field: it is, isn't it.

21:48:10 ascii_field: 'outbrain' et al.

21:49:30 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:49:45 mircea_popescu: they make like 500bux for the journalistic integritits.

21:52:33 mircea_popescu: "I'm putting myself on the record (not that I haven't a dozen other times on this site):

21:52:34 mircea_popescu: there is no inflation, if there it is two, maybe three years out at the earliest. This is massive deflation before your eyes, not even including the outstanding credit card balances and other personal loans which will never get paid, especially when the jobs start evaporating."

21:52:36 mircea_popescu: tlp on finance

21:53:17 mircea_popescu: here's a puzzling fact. in some cases, expert A in field a saying something stupid in field b not only turns me off on A, but sometimes even makes me reevaluate his expertise of field a.

21:54:09 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/8ecWN << Turdlicious upgrade forcing attempt

21:54:10 assbot: Bitcoin Core version 0.11.1 released ... ( http://bit.ly/1hHu6or )

21:54:20 mircea_popescu: meanwhile righyt here, expert C in field p says something so outrageously stupid (and it's not just one thing - all his forays into finance and investing read like he's a vocational school most likely to succeed from kharkov) in e that it's actually...endearing.

21:54:26 BingoBoingo: "

21:54:26 BingoBoingo: If widely deployed this change would eliminate the last remaining known vector for nuisance malleability on SIGHASH_ALL P2PKH transactions. On the down-side it will block most transactions made by sufficiently out of date software."

21:54:28 mircea_popescu: i think this is how it works with women and ass grabbing too.

21:56:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5354 @ 0.00047182 = 2.5261 BTC [-] {4}

21:56:34 mircea_popescu: i doubt enforcing low-s encoding of ecdsa is avoidable.

21:57:24 BingoBoingo: The thing is does 0.5.X produce low-s transactions?

21:57:50 BingoBoingo: Power rangers are claiming this wasn't introduced until 0.9

21:58:28 mircea_popescu: it shouldn't but it's nutty.

21:58:58 mircea_popescu: the idea is, at no point should it have made anything else anyway, at least as far as anyone knew.

21:59:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10388 @ 0.00047149 = 4.8978 BTC [-]

21:59:11 mircea_popescu: but yes, will need to be looked into moar.

21:59:48 BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/a28fb70e45d764e558966ba3b02bd16e02b11c14 << What they point to as the introduction of low-s encoding

21:59:49 assbot: Merge pull request #3016 from sipa/lows · bitcoin/bitcoin@a28fb70 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1hHuMKF )

22:00:49 mircea_popescu: mmm

22:01:05 mircea_popescu: you see, it's a probabilistic thing.

22:01:25 mircea_popescu: i have nfi what negating if odd does anyway.

22:02:37 mircea_popescu: but you're right, it was even S before.

22:05:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00047257 = 10.0185 BTC [+]

22:06:27 ascii_field: nobody asked me, but letting the enemy spray his relevance-piss-pheromone on the thing is far more of a nuisance than the existing malleability.

22:06:47 ascii_field: which afaik is harmless to anyone who isn't a moron

22:07:07 BingoBoingo: Relay looks like it could become problematic

22:07:25 ascii_field: how?

22:07:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_field it has this pr stink to it.

22:09:12 ascii_field: the way i see it, usg continues in the effort to force folks off classical clients

22:09:19 ascii_field: and into the holding pen.

22:10:09 mircea_popescu: you know it's a trivial fix for trb also.

22:10:39 ascii_field: yes but imposed.

22:10:50 ascii_field: and 'what if pogos had been poured into cement already'

22:11:15 ascii_field: there is no known end to the supply of these.

22:11:27 mircea_popescu: but the reaosn they weren't is specifically that we knew that it's early.

22:12:19 mircea_popescu: i dun see it's imposed by anything but the dubious quality of code writing employed throughout this project.

22:12:29 ascii_field: for so long as openssl, bdb, are in the mix, the bug mine is bottomless.

22:12:33 mircea_popescu: in any case : the actual significance of this switch in crypto terms could benefit from a review.

22:13:32 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:13:35 ascii_field: for perhaps the first time, i remind mircea_popescu to think of the political, and not vice-versa

22:14:13 ascii_field: if this is an actual flaw, it ought to be fixed in a way which marginalizes and lowers into pederasty the phoundation, rather than legitimizes it.

22:14:26 mircea_popescu: specifically ?

22:14:35 ascii_field: if i had 'specifically' i would be submitting the patch now.

22:14:50 ascii_field: will have to (shudder) ~think~.

22:14:56 mircea_popescu: more importantly : the entire malleability / bip 62 / sipa chjanges (such as linked) are 2013 material.

22:16:23 jurov: ascii_field: can i read that like you will reject any patch that resembles anything from members or people affiliated to phoundation or "dev team"

22:16:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7703 @ 0.0004714 = 3.6312 BTC [-] {3}

22:16:28 jurov: ?

22:16:33 ascii_field: jurov: not precisely

22:16:40 mircea_popescu: seems a bit excessive.

22:16:47 ascii_field: jurov: if you recall, i began with a backport of the orphan fix

22:17:00 ascii_field: jurov: do you play go ?

22:17:17 ascii_field: familiar with jp terms 'sente' and 'gote' ?

22:17:28 jurov: no

22:17:52 ascii_field: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Gote

22:17:54 assbot: Gote at Sensei's Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1hHx5gE )

22:18:00 ascii_field: dunno how much sense this will make to a nonplayer

22:18:36 ascii_field: my point was that we do not want to be in the position of answering the enemy in real time.

22:18:50 ascii_field: and on his terms.

22:19:33 jurov: well, then we can end with turdball like gcc (due to rms' political reasons discussed here recently)

22:19:51 ascii_field: we already have the turdball

22:20:04 ascii_field: ftr, i do not believe that it has a long-term future.

22:20:17 ascii_field: recall why i asked nubbins` for the book!

22:20:46 *: ascii_field bbl

22:21:52 jurov: !s relish impossible

22:21:53 assbot: 1 results for 'relish impossible' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=relish+impossible

22:27:30 mircea_popescu: the real time thing fails, ftr.

22:27:50 mircea_popescu: we had a discussion about how bip 62 is not particularly controversial last spring iirc.

22:32:07 deedbot-: [Qntra] Carl Mark Force IV To Be Sentenced Monday, Prosecutors Request 87 Months Imprisonment - http://qntra.net/2015/10/carl-mark-force-iv-to-be-sentenced-monday-prosecutors-request-87-months-imprisonment/

22:34:37 mircea_popescu: o hey not bad, guy gets to go to costa rica hang out with the other lamers on "what's left after divorce" budget

22:35:45 BingoBoingo: Seriously

22:39:17 mircea_popescu: in any case, i see little value in the political thinking proposed. im not even sure it's all that political.

22:41:04 mircea_popescu: but the way which, whether it delegitimizes anything or not, nevertheless serves bitcoin, to do the switch, is by making sure that the proposed solution actually is a good solution for the proposed problem. there's a lengthy history of narrow, poorly tho9ught out, unreviewed and borderline nonsensical "solutions" that had to be reforged and then re-reforged, even 3-4-5 passes.

22:41:36 mircea_popescu: so in that sense... if there's a superclass fix, and we find it, good. if not, entrenching around this seems a waste of time.

22:41:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45666 @ 0.00047285 = 21.5932 BTC [+] {3}

22:41:58 mircea_popescu: heck, the guy's pull request got, rather symptomatically, 0 comments.

22:42:15 mircea_popescu: on github. the thing is social media for derps. they comment because their food is late, there.

22:47:27 BingoBoingo: Oh, of course Gavin had to refactor key.cpp so changes we might want to play with now are in a practically different language.

22:47:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12206 @ 0.00047436 = 5.79 BTC [+]

22:48:03 mircea_popescu: this is actually a good thing

22:48:08 mircea_popescu: it will readily expose dumbassery.

22:54:36 BingoBoingo: All sorts of changes appeared to happed to key.cpp between 0.7 and 0.9

23:00:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14959 @ 0.00047425 = 7.0943 BTC [-]

23:02:09 *: BingoBoingo am dissapoing in dooglus https://archive.is/dsVVv

23:02:10 assbot: dooglus comments on Bitcoin Core version 0.11.1 released. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MsFP2R )

23:04:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00047737 = 5.8 BTC [+] {2}

23:24:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00047806 = 10.8998 BTC [+] {4}

23:38:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7496 @ 0.00048003 = 3.5983 BTC [+] {2}