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Transcript for 16-08-2014, 1179 lines:

00:00:12 mircea_popescu: the reasons it's not well implemented are in no sense scientifical, but purely political, and so the solution isn't going to come from writing it up, but from a willingness to work with others already doing it.

00:00:29 justusranvier: Of course.

00:00:37 mircea_popescu: so in this sense "stop being stupid and use the b-a model" is about a billion times more effectual than "here's how you could do it theoretically"

00:00:43 mircea_popescu: or at least, that's what i think on the matter.

00:01:21 justusranvier: Mostly I just want people to start thinking along the lines of how to harden existing systems specifically different threat models than those they are accustomed to combating.

00:01:33 justusranvier: I gave an example implementation, but it's purpose is mostly a thought exercise.

00:02:11 justusranvier: I do think that invitation-only networks have a role in the future, and creating incentives for proper vetting will be important, however those are accomplshed.

00:04:01 justusranvier: Here's the scenerio:

00:04:25 justusranvier: In the near future, Uber and Lyft are going to win their battle with the established taxi mafias.

00:04:47 justusranvier: They'll get in bed with the lawmakers and regulators and get the rules changed so they can participate.

00:05:13 justusranvier: However, the process of doing so is going to be very expensive and consume the profits they should rightfully have made.

00:05:51 justusranvier: Right about the time they win this battle, pure P2P versions of what they do will start cutting them out of the loop entirely.

00:06:21 justusranvier: What will they do? Of course, they'll do exactly what the taxi drivers are doing to them - demand the government "do something"

00:06:46 justusranvier: By this point, however, the only attack vector will be sting operations against individual drivers.

00:07:18 justusranvier: So by the time this all happens we should have tools ready that are specifically designed to allow people to conduct in-person commerce with some assurance they are about to do business with a cop

00:07:37 justusranvier: that they are *not* about to do business with a cop

00:07:40 justusranvier: .

00:07:55 kakobrekla: !help

00:07:55 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots

00:16:51 mircea_popescu: ty kako

00:17:15 mircea_popescu: !up dpb_reddit

00:17:30 mircea_popescu: justusranvier none of that is controversial.

00:19:14 ben_vulpes: $depth s.mpoe

00:19:15 empyex: ben_vulpes: [S.MPOE] Bids: 52758 @ 0.00073978 16250 @ 0.00073885 14518 @ 0.00073828 3035 @ 0.00073788

00:19:17 empyex: ben_vulpes: [S.MPOE] Asks: 9603 @ 0.00074093 4200 @ 0.00074164 3100 @ 0.00074318 6350 @ 0.00074370

00:24:24 mircea_popescu: anyway, small, worthless transactions like say a cab ride aren't too adequate for this sort of application because people can't be arsed to bother.

00:25:10 mircea_popescu: there's a reason the traditional "taxi mafia" is prevalent all over the world. that technology may force the government to release its extractive grip of said mafia tho... this is dubious. works for as long as people have the upper tech side, but this pendulum swings.

00:25:19 BingoBoingo: !rules

00:26:13 mircea_popescu: for easy comparison, argentina legally allows prostitution, but not pimping. this is roughly equivalent to allowing lyft/uber but not the traditional style.

00:26:23 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, there's plenty of prosperous pimps.

00:26:56 BingoBoingo: %tslb

00:26:59 atcbot: 0 minutes and 0 seconds ago (right now!)

00:31:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103473 @ 0.00073914 = 76.481 BTC [-] {6}

00:32:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153530 @ 0.00073689 = 113.1347 BTC [-] {12}

00:33:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107709 @ 0.00073588 = 79.2609 BTC [-] {8}

00:34:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1087 @ 0.00073866 = 0.8029 BTC [+]

00:34:45 copumpkin: wow MPOE crash!

00:35:12 mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe

00:35:12 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00073342 / 0.00073748 / 0.0007468 (398319 shares, 293.76 BTC), 7D: 0.0007262 / 0.00077463 / 0.00088145 (3427764 shares, 2,655.25 BTC), 30D: 0.0007262 / 0.00081606 / 0.00094217 (13319985 shares, 10,870.04 BTC)

00:35:42 mircea_popescu: funny that it goes the same way as btc this thing.

00:35:51 copumpkin: yeah

00:38:03 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

00:38:05 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 497.62, Best ask: 497.79, Bid-ask spread: 0.17000, Last trade: 497.62, 24 hour volume: 16561.50479641, 24 hour low: 481.55, 24 hour high: 521.79, 24 hour vwap: 500.762394477

00:38:11 mircea_popescu: heh.

00:39:53 kakobrekla: its over, we can pack and go home put ba to +m.

00:40:27 kakobrekla: throw in another comma inthere.

00:41:08 mircea_popescu: but i am home!

00:44:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.298 = 0.894 BTC [+]

00:44:46 mircea_popescu: from the lulz dept http://www.ofnumbers.com/2014/08/15/psa-got-hacked-yesterday/

00:44:48 assbot: PSA: got hacked yesterday | Great Wall of Numbers

00:47:37 mircea_popescu: https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html << and the usg press machine is making serious efforts at creating a bunch of interlinked blogs to cover the discussion in astroturf.

00:47:37 assbot: On the Sovereignty of CryptoCurrencies -- What Bitcoin can Learn from Somaliland

00:48:15 mircea_popescu: it's not just preston byrne or this or that derp. it's about a hundred of them by now, and as the old saying goes : the problem with this world is that while smart people are hesitant, government shills are full of words.

00:51:02 mircea_popescu: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/14/tory-2/ << read that to get a pretty much exact blow by blow of the hostile aggenda.

00:51:03 assbot: I guess that makes me a Tory | Preston Byrne

00:51:09 mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin is far from perfect.

00:51:09 mircea_popescu: ECDSA is imperfect. The hunt for the perfect mining algo is ongoing; Bitcoin?s in particular has proven to be a tremendous waste of electricity, the process little more than an environmentally harmful race to the bottom. The protocol supports a mere 7 transactions per second. Protocol development has been difficult to implement on account of the centralisation of mining power and community inertia. "

00:51:48 mircea_popescu: that's what teh boys got. how well bitcoin integrates (ie, how well some usg twerps nobody takles seriously have pretended to integrate with their puppet masters. herp.) and how unsovereign it is.

00:52:27 mircea_popescu: meanwhile the guy's "business partner" drones all about how "you gotta live in real anarchy". because totally nobody ever did it outside of his dumb american ass, being leeched by some somalis for a few years.

00:52:41 mircea_popescu: such valuable voices much point of view.

00:59:59 mircea_popescu: !s tory

00:59:59 assbot: 1 results for 'tory' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=tory

01:12:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33846 @ 0.00073432 = 24.8538 BTC [-] {2}

01:20:28 ben_vulpes: how many txns per second does atc do?

01:25:04 decimation: somalia would exist if not for the us decolonizing everything

01:25:34 decimation: his example destroys his argument

01:27:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] 100 @ 0.00642887 = 0.6429 BTC [+] {6}

01:27:01 ben_vulpes: come now that's not in his worldview

01:29:10 decimation: mircea_popescu: surely you do not mean these guys receive paychecks from usg. plenty of people shill in the hope that they can get scraps from the master's table

01:29:28 mircea_popescu: that's a paycheck.

01:29:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is resulting in an article, so. gimme an hour here.

01:29:47 decimation: okay that's what I thought

01:30:29 mircea_popescu: !s large early holdings

01:30:29 assbot: 5 results for 'large early holdings' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=large+early+holdings

01:31:52 mircea_popescu: !up usg_press_machin

01:32:15 usg_press_machin: Howdy, Bitcoin-assets.

01:32:18 mircea_popescu: usg_press_machin i don't like you enough to pm. and no, not really. you can comment on it once it's done.

01:32:59 usg_press_machin: Charming. Looking forward to it.

01:33:14 ben_vulpes: who are you, usg_press_machin?

01:34:15 usg_press_machin: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/14/tory-2/

01:34:16 assbot: I guess that makes me a Tory | Preston Byrne

01:34:36 usg_press_machin: I saw a number of hits from argentina; my heart sank

01:34:37 ben_vulpes: mr bryne? goodness.

01:34:57 usg_press_machin: I've been following the logs for a couple of months and figured it was a good opportunity to pop in.

01:36:38 ben_vulpes: welcome. into the wot with ye.

01:38:38 usg_press_machin: Surely it can't be that easy.

01:39:04 ben_vulpes: do you have a gpg key? a bitcoin address?

01:39:13 decimation: asciilifeform: re: tax-farming :: in Maryland there is such a thing as 'ground rent' - 'landlord' can sell land from under your house if you don't pay

01:39:16 ben_vulpes: surely if you're derping about bitcoin you've access to a privkey.

01:39:20 usg_press_machin: Both

01:39:32 ben_vulpes: you want ;;eregister and ;;everify

01:39:35 decimation: he did not require an up, note

01:39:38 ben_vulpes: oh wat

01:39:42 ben_vulpes: ;;ident usg_press_machin

01:39:42 gribble: Nick 'usg_press_machin', with hostmask 'usg_press_machin!6b033f2c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.', is not identified.

01:39:49 ben_vulpes: how is that now?

01:40:02 ben_vulpes: decimation: mircea_popescu upped him

01:40:05 ben_vulpes: troll

01:40:11 ben_vulpes: ;;eregister

01:40:12 gribble: (eregister <nick> <keyid>) -- Register your GPG identity, associating GPG key <keyid> with <nick>. <keyid> is a 16 digit key id, with or without the '0x' prefix. We look on servers listed in 'plugins.GPG.keyservers' config. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. Your passphrase will (1 more message)

01:40:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00073057 = 8.4016 BTC [-]

01:40:23 decimation: oh sorry I missed that

01:40:27 ben_vulpes: i'm sure you follow, usg_press_machin

01:40:37 ben_vulpes: i recommend a better handle tho, lest you get stuck with that one.

01:40:41 mircea_popescu: usg_press_machin just how often do you check them hits ?

01:41:07 decimation: usg_press_machin: I assume you are dying to give us pro usg propaganda?

01:41:09 usg_press_machin: Roughly every thirty seconds or so, I spend my life glued to the computer.

01:41:14 usg_press_machin: (Just by chance)

01:41:22 usg_press_machin: Not really - we're not actually paid shills

01:43:09 usg_press_machin: But I suspect we're not that far off - did you all watch that "Declaration of Independence" video?

01:45:22 decimation: I did not.

01:45:38 usg_press_machin: I recommend you take a look - then re-read the blogposts.

01:45:50 decimation: What exactly do you mean by "ECDSA is not perfect. "

01:46:52 usg_press_machin: https://www.ipa.go.jp/security/enc/CRYPTREC/fy15/doc/1004_R3_ECDSA.pdf

01:47:42 usg_press_machin: But from a more practical perspective, some of the tools people use to interact with the blockchain e.g. brain wallets or faulty random number generators are weak points.

01:55:47 decimation: you seem to confuse "widespread adoption" with "powerful"

01:56:34 usg_press_machin: In what sense?

02:07:13 mircea_popescu: <usg_press_machin> Surely it can't be that easy. << why not ?!

02:08:12 mircea_popescu: <usg_press_machin> But from a more practical perspective, some of the tools people use to interact with the blockchain e.g. brain wallets or faulty random number generators are weak points. << how do you figure this has anything to do with ecdsa ?

02:08:31 mircea_popescu: you can kill yourself with paracetamol too, doesn't make paracetamol faulty.

02:09:29 mircea_popescu: !up usg_press_machin

02:09:46 mircea_popescu: i keep forgetting about that and then talking at meanwhile devoiced ppls.

02:10:28 usg_press_machin: Thanks mircea. Re WoT was just joshing around. Re: brain wallets etc., the point is that Bitcoin is as much a product of its users as it is the blockchain.

02:10:46 mircea_popescu: not all its users.

02:10:54 usg_press_machin: Not all of them, of course.

02:11:17 mircea_popescu: so then it dun matter that the derps misuse it.

02:11:39 usg_press_machin: Maybe. But the question is, do you want the derps to use it at all

02:11:40 usg_press_machin: ?

02:11:49 mircea_popescu: i don't care if they do.

02:12:08 mircea_popescu: bycicling isn;t a functon of people who can't ride bikes either. do you want more people to ride bykes ?

02:12:19 usg_press_machin: What do you want Bitcoin to achieve?

02:12:20 mircea_popescu: maybe, i guess, on like the 3rd or so meta level.

02:12:24 mircea_popescu: nothing lol.

02:12:41 usg_press_machin: What're you in it for?

02:13:42 mircea_popescu: to quote an old timer, "i have no idea, [you] just wandered in here one day and started talking"

02:14:20 BingoBoingo: %tslb

02:14:22 atcbot: 0 minutes and 0 seconds ago (right now!)

02:14:26 BingoBoingo: %d

02:14:27 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 129090.06 in 1979 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.13

02:14:40 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is a normal function of the adult mind, like writing, or like fucking. you're not into these for anything other than you know, being an adult, being alive, doing the things that there are.

02:16:03 BingoBoingo: 44389, Almost 7 hours ago... I'm not sure ATC bot' %tslb... quite works...

02:16:06 BingoBoingo: %p

02:16:08 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.03 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

02:16:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wlel if hash went away ?

02:16:53 BingoBoingo: I guess it's time to trade paper ATC IOU's (maybe joking?)

02:16:56 usg_press_machin: So what's wrong with doing bitcoin while... say, obeying the law and paying taxes?

02:17:19 mircea_popescu: what's wrong with having sex while not getting an erection ?

02:17:22 mircea_popescu: nothing, i guess.

02:17:34 mircea_popescu: there is definitely something wrong if trying to present that as anything but fucking weird.

02:18:00 mircea_popescu: i mean i get it, some people can't. which is fine. but don't go around claiming impotence as a virtue.

02:18:03 usg_press_machin: But this is the thing with my question about asking why you're into bitcoin.

02:18:18 usg_press_machin: If you're into it to go to the moon - mass adoption (hence legal frameworks) are key

02:18:33 usg_press_machin: if you're into it to fight the state, then go for it, I can respect that viewpoint.

02:18:41 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c here's a good one for you : http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/08/venture-capitalists-get-paid-well-to-lose-money/ (Yet 2013 annual industry performance data from Cambridge Associates shows that venture capital continues to underperform the S&P 500, NASDAQ and Russell 2000.)

02:18:42 assbot: Venture Capitalists Get Paid Well to Lose Money - Diane Mulcahy - Harvard Business Review

02:18:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:18:59 mircea_popescu: usg_press_machin if you read the logs, you've seen how well this entire "try and force mp into our preconceived headboxes" worked before.

02:19:03 mircea_popescu: i don't fit.

02:19:25 usg_press_machin: What's your view on it then? I'm openminded.

02:19:52 decimation: bitcoin doesn't need anyone to have an opinion or thought about it in order to exist

02:20:22 mircea_popescu: myeah. it's not a collective dream.

02:20:27 BingoBoingo: usg_press_machin: There's at least 800 different alternatives to your two presented options and there are 796 of those alternatives are compatible with at least one other option. GO! Math!

02:20:31 mircea_popescu: and no, people don't "shape it" in that sense.

02:20:46 decimation: bitcoin has already gone to the moon, some of the world hasn't figured that out yet

02:21:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and here's one for you : http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/08/whats-matter-with-pgp.html jeez im on a roll today.

02:21:13 assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: What's the matter with PGP?

02:21:32 mircea_popescu: "It's time for PGP to die. " sez author.

02:24:37 BingoBoingo: And a follow up talking around problems https://zyan.scripts.mit.edu/blog/certificate-transparency-for-pgp/

02:24:39 assbot: certificate transparency for PGP? | discrete blogarithm

02:24:46 ben_vulpes: !s with PGP

02:24:47 assbot: 40 results for 'with PGP' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=with+PGP

02:24:47 decimation: the fact that he says that the cryptography is old (and therefore bad) pretty much explains his cryptographic chops

02:25:05 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's so lulzy, the crap these people publish. "o i hate pgp, it's too secure, pls to use centrally distributed keys, so much lightyears better"

02:25:05 ben_vulpes: y'r late, boss

02:25:19 mircea_popescu: worst time to be stupid in the history of the world.

02:25:22 decimation: but mircea_popescu, you are leaving out the masses

02:25:26 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2014#796144

02:25:27 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log

02:25:44 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes omfg check that out

02:25:46 mircea_popescu: im way late.

02:26:10 mircea_popescu: sorry asciilifeform sorry chan. behind on my reading it seems

02:26:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: And they completely forget that if you NEED end to end encryption... A key exchange is happening privately nomatter what yahoo or Gmaul's shit insists on

02:26:40 mircea_popescu: heh.

02:26:51 mircea_popescu: as if you know, plaintext mail isn't end to end encrypted. why not ? i do it all the time.

02:27:08 BingoBoingo: <decimation> but mircea_popescu, you are leaving out the masses << Is that what you want the oncologist to do?

02:27:37 mircea_popescu: by now i can sorta distinguish the noobs from the veterans because the noobs send me gpg blobs with "Content-Type: multipart/mixed;" mixed in, whereas the veterans just neatly paste the pgp in the email body.

02:27:38 ben_vulpes: gmanul

02:28:00 BingoBoingo: gmanul gmauls gmail

02:28:05 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: tell me about it i had a dev send me an ssh key in a fancy attachment the other day

02:28:10 ben_vulpes: "plz for to plaintext"

02:28:23 penguirker: New blog post: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-great-post-of-rebuttals/

02:28:38 mircea_popescu: "The lack of transparent key management in PGP isn't unfixable. For those who don't trust Google or Yahoo, there are experimental systems like Keybase.io that attempt to tie keys to user identities."

02:28:39 decimation: I would agree with his point that the pgp protocol is complex, but I suspect that anything that tries to solve the same problems will have similar complexity

02:28:45 mircea_popescu: yeah, THAT is the solution. keybase.

02:28:56 mircea_popescu: please get me some anti-eyeroll tape i might strain something.

02:29:08 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: dunno if you're into this sort of thing but if you grabbed the logline in question with the same js that does the highlighting and slammed it into <title></title> would it show up for assbot to read directly into the chan?

02:29:09 mircea_popescu: decimation what part is complex anwyay ?

02:29:17 ben_vulpes: mind you i have no idea how assbot renders pages internally

02:29:44 ben_vulpes: or if there are less retarded ways to accomplish same

02:29:50 mircea_popescu: "(Let's not get into the NSA's collect-it-all policy for encrypted messages. If the NSA is your adversary just forget about PGP.)" << best part :D

02:30:07 ben_vulpes: now if !s stuff defaulted to ignoring bots as well...

02:31:58 mircea_popescu: "A proper approach to key management. This could be anything from centralized key management as in Apple's iMessage -- which would still be better than nothing -- to a decentralized (but still usable) approach like the one offered by Signal or OTR. Whatever the solution, in order to achieve mass deployment, keys need to be made much more manageable or else submerged from the user altogether."

02:32:04 mircea_popescu: ahahaah that';s right. submerged altogether!

02:32:11 mircea_popescu: how the fuck am i going to make gilded business cards then ?

02:32:51 kakobrekla: ben_vulpes url hash tags dont get sent to the server.

02:33:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12717 @ 0.00072297 = 9.194 BTC [-]

02:33:32 ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: if the js that highlights the line also alters the title node would assbot be able to read that title?

02:33:56 mircea_popescu: usg_press_machin but anyway, a secondary point to your " obeying the law and paying taxes?" is that if you happen to be obeying the "laws" of a terrorist organisation and giving it money, you may end up in hot water with a lot of people.

02:33:59 kakobrekla: there are ways to execute js w/o a browser but that is kinda silly.

02:34:27 mircea_popescu: there's no rule of nature that says the us can never be so identified. for those people who do make that identification, you're a criminal.

02:34:39 ben_vulpes: ah well

02:34:53 usg_press_machin: mircea_popescu yes but I don't think paying taxes to the USG - no matter what the USG does - is Nuremberg material.

02:34:56 ben_vulpes: another good idea dies on the spikes of pressed shitboard

02:34:59 mircea_popescu: so you don't think.

02:35:04 mircea_popescu: do you know who else didn't think ?

02:35:07 mircea_popescu: everyone at nurnberg.

02:35:25 usg_press_machin: Reductio ad, not going to take the bait there.

02:35:34 mircea_popescu: how would you know ?

02:35:53 mircea_popescu: the future is eminently unknowable. i for one am definitely going to push for hangings.

02:36:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00072316 = 18.9468 BTC [+] {2}

02:36:17 usg_press_machin: It's a question of legal convention. Paying legal taxes to a legally installed government has never, ever been considered a war crime. I'll take my chances

02:36:40 kakobrekla: it would be prolly better to detect log url, parse it and just go after the line directly in db

02:36:43 mircea_popescu: here's the legal convention : anyone who worked for the tsar in any capacity, 20 years diging ice in siberia.

02:36:56 mircea_popescu: it's what the tradition points to, at any rate.

02:37:54 mircea_popescu: and as to "never ever" : pre nurenberg, this trying of a foreign power's officers and ministers had also never ever happened.

02:37:58 mircea_popescu: precedent happens.

02:38:56 mircea_popescu: in short : your notion that sitting with the usg is safe and joining the rebels is dangerous is fundamentally broken. sitting with the usg is safe except if the rebels get the upper hand.

02:39:04 usg_press_machin: Is there a rebellion?

02:39:13 mircea_popescu: the situation is in fact quite symmetrical, whichever side you're on the other will prolly not like it.

02:39:27 mircea_popescu: well, inasmuch as someone';s breaking the law and not paying taxes, yes. that'd be the definition of a rebellion.

02:39:50 usg_press_machin: I'd disagree - that'd be protest. Rebellion implies something a bit more organised, serious, and threatening.

02:39:59 usg_press_machin: And generally involving force of arms.

02:40:22 mircea_popescu: how's this formal approach to things worked for you so far ?

02:41:04 mircea_popescu: to me it sounds kinda like "a movie can't be good if it doesn't have car chases and those anti-physical sparks bullets make in hollywood"

02:41:49 justusranvier: http://www.libertyroundtable.com/2010/03/30/bonds-what-bonds/

02:41:50 assbot: Bonds? What Bonds? | Liberty RoundTable

02:41:58 mircea_popescu: (but it rests me at ease to hear from the usg_press_machine itself that crypto is no longer armament)

02:42:49 mircea_popescu: !up usg_press_machin

02:42:56 justusranvier: I like Tom Baugh's tendency to corrupt the youth

02:43:21 mircea_popescu: that's more sexual perversion than rebellion neh ?

02:43:39 justusranvier: Read the last paragraph of that article

02:43:58 usg_press_machin: Thanks Mircea. I think crypto has a place to carve out individual privacy, but I don't think it necessarily follows that the only option is to view the relationship in terms of conflict. Reading now

02:44:13 mircea_popescu: all relationship is conflict.

02:44:41 usg_press_machin: Maybe. Depends on the definitions we use.

02:44:55 mircea_popescu: and privacy is not at stake. sovereignty is at stake.

02:45:07 usg_press_machin: Again, maybe. It depends on where you draw that line.

02:45:12 usg_press_machin: And what definitions you use.

02:45:33 ben_vulpes: pity those of us fighting for sovereignty

02:46:10 mircea_popescu: not like it's exactly a mystery what definitions i use :D

02:46:26 usg_press_machin: If "sovereign" means "monopoly on the use of force" or determining how force should be used, I'm in the camp that the state makes that call. There should be exceptions and limitations, and it's the task of politically active people to make sure those lines reflect their views.

02:47:02 mircea_popescu: you can be in any camp you want, because with bitcoin what camp you're in dun matter anymore.

02:47:04 usg_press_machin: mircea_popescu definitely not!

02:47:05 mircea_popescu: the state can't exist.

02:47:44 justusranvier: Point of order: "the state" doesn't exist. People exist, buildings exist, guns exist, drones exist.

02:48:01 mircea_popescu: love ?

02:48:03 usg_press_machin: I mean, it's not a reified critter, definitely. But it qua legal fiction certainly exists - it's an abstraction.

02:48:16 justusranvier: "the state" is an excuse one group of people make up to explain why their crimes are actually virtuous

02:48:20 mircea_popescu: not an effectual one anymore.

02:48:22 usg_press_machin: I think it was Hannah Arendt who pointed it out - "bureaucracy is rule by nobody"

02:48:40 mircea_popescu: well bureaucracy needs to control the money, and so that's the end of that.

02:49:07 mircea_popescu: the state as a voluntary association, all they who choose and wish to pay taxe sand obeys the law is what we have here already.

02:49:20 mircea_popescu: and it dun look all that "normal".

02:49:23 justusranvier: Murder is murder, no matter what kind of costume somebody wears. "The state" is the lie that a magic costume can turn murder into "public policy" or some other such nonsense.

02:50:16 mircea_popescu: justusranvier you'll never get out of killing people.

02:50:33 mircea_popescu: as distasteful as that reality may be.

02:51:12 justusranvier: True, there will always be murders. What can be ended is the myth that murder isn't evil just because somebody drapes a fancy title on themselves and cloaks their actions in euphamisms

02:51:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18821 @ 0.00072497 = 13.6447 BTC [+]

02:51:23 ben_vulpes: a wild!

02:51:40 mircea_popescu: that's also never going away. if i thought the victim was kinda cool i'd not have killed them. once i killed them, obviously i will go on thinking they sucked.

02:52:17 justusranvier: The myth has nothing to do with the mindset of the murder - it's about everbody else.

02:52:28 mircea_popescu: maybe the murderer is persuasive ?

02:52:35 mircea_popescu: statistically, some will be.

02:53:41 mircea_popescu: the salem trials is the convenient case study here. you can decry them as "incipient government establishing itself the way government establiushes itself all time, all places : through murder". but just as well... people kill, and some killers are persuasive.

02:54:38 justusranvier: Psychopaths gonna psycho in any situation. The current situation is that when certain psychopaths put on the right costume, all of a sudden something flips in everybody else's brains wherein they regard the actions of the psychopath in completely oppostie moral terms.

02:55:02 mircea_popescu: well ok, so now we can agree, the problem is the red tape.

02:55:17 mircea_popescu: "this isn't a good apple because its not fda approved" "have you tasted it ?" "i don't need to"

02:55:31 mircea_popescu: has nothing to do with murder. everything to do with college degrees, global warming and so on.

02:58:54 usg_press_machin: I think the problem is that governments can do nasty things. We each have our own way of dealing with it. I do so within the rules the system sets out; MP does it his own way. Different approaches.

02:59:26 mircea_popescu: that ~used~ to be the problem, before we met, for many years.

02:59:36 mircea_popescu: the reason we met is because for a few years that is no longer the problem.

02:59:47 usg_press_machin: What, playing ball?

02:59:47 mircea_popescu: the problem now is that government has no further reason to exist and no means of supporting itself.

03:00:36 usg_press_machin: Agree to disagree on the last point.

03:00:42 mircea_popescu: no biggy.

03:00:46 usg_press_machin: Word.

03:03:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3557 @ 0.00072752 = 2.5878 BTC [+]

03:04:22 BingoBoingo: ;;google malpidity

03:04:22 gribble: Malpidity | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/04/malpidity/; The Idiocrats | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/05/the-idiocrats/; BingoBoingo | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/author/bingoboingo/

03:06:46 usg_press_machin: mircea_popescu if you're ever in London drop a line. Would be happy to thrash this out over a beer sometime.

03:07:56 mircea_popescu: i hate london, and why do you think a pub somewhere'd be a better venue ?!

03:08:21 BingoBoingo: USG likes roofies?

03:08:26 mircea_popescu: people think best with a written record, i find.

03:08:50 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol yeah, ~that's~ totally happening.

03:09:06 BingoBoingo: !up dpb_twitter

03:09:24 dpb_twitter: KEOW KEOW OOI

03:09:38 dpb_twitter: it's me, everyone's favorite xanthyos

03:09:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Doping your drink in London though might be the USG's one chance to try to rape you for a change

03:09:57 dpb_twitter: dpb is pwning the forums with his #derpreport

03:10:07 usg_press_machin: Ha! Not necessarily a better one. But as BingoBoingo pointed out, USG shillery always better in person

03:10:48 BingoBoingo: In mean those drones with their extradition bombs and all that jazz

03:11:30 BingoBoingo: The slavegirls mounting a rescue op to reverse-extradite

03:12:39 mircea_popescu: anyone read teh derpreport in question ?

03:13:04 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I've been following his forum trolling a bit, some decent reads

03:13:31 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/hashtag/derpreport?f=realtime&src=hash

03:13:32 assbot: Twitter / Suche - #derpreport

03:14:03 *: BingoBoingo swears the only thing worse than netsplits is netreunions

03:14:07 BingoBoingo: !up usg_press_machin

03:14:15 usg_press_machin: thx BingoBoingo

03:20:29 ben_vulpes: ;;isitdown danielpbarron.com

03:20:29 gribble: danielpbarron.com is up

03:22:10 ben_vulpes: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/837801-anyone-using-bitcoin-yet.html#post9419497 << such patience

03:22:11 assbot: Is Anyone Using Bitcoin Yet?

03:24:16 mircea_popescu: speaking of specialised hardware, anyone got a box somewhere they want to rent me ?

03:24:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what kind ?

03:26:03 mircea_popescu: the mining kind

03:26:04 mircea_popescu: %p

03:26:05 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.03 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

03:26:11 mircea_popescu: this thing needs some support.

03:26:30 mod6: yea

03:27:55 *: BingoBoingo wonders how much a Petahash is to rent...

03:28:30 *: asciilifeform wonders how much atomic dirigible is to rent

03:28:38 *: ben_vulpes has estimated the roi on renting hashes for atc

03:28:48 *: ben_vulpes has also forgotten the results

03:29:55 *: asciilifeform catches up on log

03:30:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: veterans just neatly paste the pgp in the email body << wait, vs. what ?

03:31:45 asciilifeform: anyone who worked for the tsar in any capacity, 20 years diging ice << nah. most of them (including herr dzugashvili...) just got a new krysha.

03:32:18 asciilifeform: and not a few of the best gestapo folks ended up in stasi, etc.

03:33:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform firefox extensions and whatnot

03:33:30 asciilifeform: lol!

03:33:59 mircea_popescu: yeah, most of them had enough sense to get in the wot. kinda my point there.

03:35:07 usg_press_machin: Right chaps, I'm out. Night all.

03:38:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00072509 = 12.8341 BTC [-]

03:43:59 decimation: "what part is complex [of pgp]" << when I do a gpg --list-packets --verbose < pubkey I find much that I desire to be documented

03:44:20 decimation: asciilifeform: do you know of a document that gives a detailed description of the innards of gpg file formats etc?

03:44:45 asciilifeform: decimation: rfc-4880.

03:45:43 *: asciilifeform has a well-thumbed hardbound copy of this thing next to keyboard

03:46:10 decimation: ah yeah that's what I want thanks

03:46:15 asciilifeform: (no, it isn't sold in dead tree, make your own if you must)

03:46:38 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739638

03:46:38 assbot: Bitcoin sites leaked :( - Big bitcoin members emails database

03:46:43 decimation: asciilifeform: do you think that this protocol could be made to be more simple?

03:47:05 asciilifeform: decimation: it's pretty simple, at least with regard to the basics

03:47:30 asciilifeform: decimation: one can - and i do - disregard the useless crud

03:48:14 mircea_popescu: no argument there's a lot of useless crud in there.

03:48:57 mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/KaWsDgdq << lulzy. what's with all the colors ?

03:48:57 assbot: [MySQL] Bitcoin Database Hacked - more than 4500 emails/pass free - Pastebin.com

03:48:58 asciilifeform: decimation: 'cardano, design and operation' will include a nicely whittled version of 4880.

03:50:03 mircea_popescu: !up diatonic

03:50:30 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "syntax: MYSQL"

03:53:00 decimation: asciilifeform: I presume you are going to dump support for useless cryptos and compressions, etc?

03:53:11 asciilifeform: decimation: how'd you guess.

03:53:30 decimation: obvious is obvious I guess :)

03:54:13 mircea_popescu: %p

03:54:14 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.03 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

03:54:22 decimation: it seems to me that the cli for signing subkeys is less straightforward than it could be as well

03:54:36 asciilifeform: decimation: that's nothing to do with 4880

03:55:02 decimation: asciilifeform: no, that's a complaint about the gpg user interface

03:56:50 ben_vulpes: "code works fine, user is broken"

03:57:11 ben_vulpes: somewhere between "its possible but a nightmare" and "all defaults configured for you" is zen ui

03:58:00 Blazedout419: mircea_popescu --> https://www.miningrigrentals.com/rigs/sha256

03:58:01 assbot: Mining Rig Rentals | Rigs

03:58:36 Blazedout419: never seen any rentals at the 1 PH rate though lol

03:59:36 mircea_popescu: Blazedout419 do they do custom jobs tho ?

04:02:44 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

04:02:46 gribble: Current Blocks: 315850 | Current Difficulty: 1.9729645940577133E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 316511 | Next Difficulty In: 661 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 22 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23348390265.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.34166

04:03:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00072323 = 12.8373 BTC [-]

04:04:15 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,diff

04:04:15 gribble: Error: "bc,diff" is not a valid command.

04:04:26 Blazedout419: mircea_popescu you just rent and point them where you want

04:04:36 mircea_popescu: ;;nethash

04:04:36 gribble: 167538378.251

04:04:46 Blazedout419: they have a web interface to add pools etc..

04:05:22 mircea_popescu: %d

04:05:24 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 129090.06 in 1979 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.13

04:05:30 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133E10 * 1878190.93

04:05:30 gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)

04:05:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35801 @ 0.00072733 = 26.0391 BTC [+] {2}

04:05:38 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133 * 10 **10 * 1878190.93

04:05:39 gribble: 1594904761117739088609280

04:05:45 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133 / 10 **10 * 1878190.93

04:05:45 gribble: 15949.0476112

04:06:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 73 @ 0.01284889 = 0.938 BTC [+] {6}

04:06:56 mircea_popescu: so like 16th for atc ? srsly ?!

04:07:17 *: Blazedout419 51%s it

04:08:21 Blazedout419: Can ATC be merge mined?

04:08:42 mircea_popescu: nope.

04:09:18 Blazedout419: that is probably the best route for it

04:09:32 decimation: wow almost 20% diff change

04:09:48 mircea_popescu: it got raped.

04:10:14 decimation: some environmental concern troll should write a blog about how asic mining will make the blockchain green, because it will be more thermally efficient

04:10:56 mircea_popescu: i look forward to the day random derps all over the us can't afford internet derpage anymore because bitcoin competition has made electricity too expensive.

04:11:36 decimation: heh. what they don't 'fairly' compare is the cost of transacting business in usd

04:11:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, why would anyone mine in usa

04:12:16 decimation: in some states the electric rates might be competitive, but then you pays your taxes...

04:12:50 decimation: I know a guy who was mining in hawaii with $0.3 kWh rates

04:14:31 asciilifeform: why build what will later be confiscated, nationalized.

04:14:52 decimation: maybe you think you can 'time' the arrival of the NKVD

04:16:04 asciilifeform: if 'wisdom is getting on the train one day before everybody else' (TM) - folly is 'trying to get on the train exactly one day before everybody else.'

04:19:10 asciilifeform: re: user interface << a 'clean ui' doesn't mean what people often think it means. e.g. a lathe has three knobs. what could be simpler. and yet.

04:19:32 decimation: hopefully we can be on the same gasenwagen to the sharashka then ascii :)

04:22:13 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think of moldbug's post on hubristic user interfaces when I think of bad UI

04:22:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19897 @ 0.00072951 = 14.5151 BTC [+]

04:22:58 asciilifeform: there are at least as many ways for bad ui as for bad food

04:24:24 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb

04:24:27 gribble: Time since last block: 14 minutes and 24 seconds

04:28:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9507 @ 0.00073062 = 6.946 BTC [+] {2}

04:30:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22591 @ 0.00073141 = 16.5233 BTC [+] {2}

04:35:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1873 @ 0.00073169 = 1.3705 BTC [+]

04:42:10 BingoBoingo: %p

04:42:11 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.18 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

04:45:36 BingoBoingo: %p

04:45:37 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.36 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

04:51:15 BingoBoingo: %tslb

04:51:16 atcbot: 1 minutes and 25 seconds

04:51:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.00073331 = 39.2321 BTC [+] {2}

04:52:18 BingoBoingo: %d

04:52:19 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 117934.75 in 1978 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.72

04:53:51 BingoBoingo: %p

04:53:52 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.83 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

04:54:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00073341 = 6.8941 BTC [+]

04:56:52 BingoBoingo: Blazedout419: I guess this rent a rig can work

04:57:03 Blazedout419: Indeed it works well

04:57:16 Blazedout419: %p

04:57:18 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

04:57:34 Blazedout419: wow all the 50TH are rented now

04:57:52 Blazedout419: we about to see 200TH?!?!

04:58:10 BingoBoingo: I dunno, I only rented 1.4

04:58:14 Blazedout419: ah

04:58:18 BingoBoingo: And only for 8.5 hours

04:58:21 Blazedout419: someone rented a lot

04:58:42 BingoBoingo: But where is it pointed?

04:58:47 Blazedout419: I need to move my miners and rent them out...pays a lot more

04:59:03 Blazedout419: BingoBoingo no idea..people love to speculate

05:09:47 BingoBoingo: WHY is this pool paying me change when my hash is finding blocks!!! Mining is a scam!!!

05:12:07 BingoBoingo: Am I paying off ancient debts this pool owes to its loyal miners and all of their 0.03 Terahash?

05:15:38 decimation: yeah all of those miners except one would lose the tenant money (mining bitcoin) ... one wonders if there are 'other motivations' to mine...

05:15:43 BingoBoingo: Mining already has me feeling dirty

05:16:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20809 @ 0.00073218 = 15.2359 BTC [-] {3}

05:20:37 decimation: mining returns about 25 satoshis per megahash per day, prices start at 28.5 satoshi per megahash per day for daily terms...

05:21:18 Blazedout419: Every new miner sold will not likely ROI or turn a profit...yet they sell out over and over

05:21:23 Blazedout419: Makes you wonder

05:24:08 BingoBoingo: Well, this is ATC if that makes any difference

05:25:29 decimation: yeah I guess if you can mine altcoin it might make more sense

05:25:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18070 @ 0.00072978 = 13.1871 BTC [-]

05:26:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6423 @ 0.00072951 = 4.6856 BTC [-]

05:27:27 BingoBoingo: decimation: I just did rent X hash for Y time and pointed it at a pool. Have no idea how the pool figures payouts

05:29:29 RagnarDanneskjol: 1,077,310,518 DOGE have been burned for XDP = $147,063.66

05:29:41 ben_vulpes: xdp?

05:30:13 RagnarDanneskjol: dogeparty

05:30:20 RagnarDanneskjol: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/dogecoin-community-burning-currency-dogeparty/2014/08/14

05:30:20 assbot: Dogecoin Community Burning Currency for Dogeparty » CryptoCoinsNews

05:31:08 ben_vulpes: hey that's enough to keep a guy afloat in bsas for a few months at least

05:31:27 RagnarDanneskjol: mhmm

05:31:33 ben_vulpes: urge

05:31:34 ben_vulpes: to scam

05:31:35 ben_vulpes: rising

05:31:39 ben_vulpes: must

05:31:40 ben_vulpes: retain

05:31:45 ben_vulpes: integrity

05:33:43 nubbins`: hmm

05:35:24 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39zKhsT5naI&list=RDCwrIXCItNgs#t=63

05:35:24 assbot: Lazerhawk - So Far Away - YouTube

05:35:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:35:30 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39zKhsT5naI&list=RDCwrIXCItNgs#t=63

05:35:31 assbot: Lazerhawk - So Far Away - YouTube

05:35:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:37:23 nubbins`: ;;notes

05:37:23 gribble: I currently have notes waiting for aldur1, benkay, birdman, bitcodernoob, coinfire, D-Dimer, davetherave, dotcoin, eggbot, everyone, jcpham, Kingdom, mariogrip, mexual, mike_c, netsplit, nubbins, pete_dushenki, randywaterhouse, Retro, RetroUpriser, Rozal, the, ThickasTheives, thickasthieves, TimSwanson, trustedcoinhu, tysat, vexual, and yotagada.

05:37:29 nubbins`: ;;notes nubbins

05:37:30 gribble: Sent 2 days, 2 hours, and 53 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> fap to this http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2014/08/12/the_sec_s_antimodern_logo_evokes_southern_tradition_authenticity.html

05:37:34 nubbins`: heh

05:38:15 benkay: ;;ping

05:38:16 gribble: pong

05:38:41 ben_vulpes: well that was anticlimactic

05:38:48 ben_vulpes: hm

05:38:53 dotcoin: ;;ping

05:38:53 gribble: pong

05:39:03 dotcoin: ho ho ho

05:39:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00072486 = 14.3885 BTC [-]

05:39:11 everyone: ;;ping

05:39:11 gribble: pong

05:39:23 benkay: well there's a neat little hole in gribble

05:40:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00072442 = 9.0915 BTC [-]

05:40:12 benkay: ;;ident davetherave

05:40:12 gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.

05:40:19 benkay: ;;gpg info davetherave

05:40:20 gribble: No such user registered.

05:40:26 benkay: ;;gpg info randywaterhouse

05:40:27 gribble: No such user registered.

05:40:35 benkay: ;;bcinfo randywaterhouse

05:40:36 gribble: Error: "bcinfo" is not a valid command.

05:40:42 benkay: hm

05:41:08 thickasthieves: ;;ping

05:41:09 gribble: pong

05:42:17 ben_vulpes: nanotube: ^^ you probably know about this one but have a bit of disclosure anyways

05:48:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 225 @ 0.00273289 = 0.6149 BTC [-] {5}

05:52:29 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> decimation: I just did rent X hash for Y time and pointed it at a pool. Have no idea how the pool figures payouts << you mining atc or btc ?

05:52:44 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ATC

05:52:56 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> hey that's enough to keep a guy afloat in bsas for a few months at least << the theory that doge is worth dollars, as in over 1, is still lulzy.

05:53:32 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anyway the idea of a pool is that you share your stuff

05:53:39 BingoBoingo: So far for contributing 99%+ of the hash that solved 2 blocks I recieved... 24 ATC... P2Pool powered pools are weird

05:53:41 mircea_popescu: so you don't get any credit for what you find, merely for the hashes.

05:53:54 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't bother with a pool for atc tbh

05:54:12 mircea_popescu: %p

05:54:13 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.65 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

05:55:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'd rather not have some shady rented hash pointed directly at my altcoind

05:55:51 dignork: BingoBoingo: it's normal, you get payouts delayed, protection mechanism to avoid pool hopping or w/e

05:56:03 mircea_popescu: ah dignork has a point, you'll get more later prolly.

05:56:10 BingoBoingo: Ah

05:56:32 mircea_popescu: anyway, since you're using friendly ppl i wouldn't much expect actual scam

05:56:42 mircea_popescu: tho thinking about it i dun recall who's running coinminer

05:57:06 mircea_popescu: %d

05:57:07 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 120772.86 in 1977 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.57

05:57:14 BingoBoingo: I think just whatever altcoin person running pools that found Altcoin on the forum first

05:57:27 mircea_popescu: you know you only could have found 1 block

05:57:32 mircea_popescu: it was 78 earlier

05:58:10 dignork: BingoBoingo: for 8 hours run i'm not sure it's worth it, but it's actually pretty easy to set a temp stratum server, and point miners there.

05:58:27 BingoBoingo: Both happened after I fired this thing up and the pool's previous hash was 0.03 Th/s

05:58:30 dignork: basically mine solo

05:58:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo how much didja pay for the 8 hours ?

05:59:01 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 0.015 BTC, It's a loss, but an educational one.

05:59:11 mircea_popescu: quite educational.

05:59:38 mircea_popescu: 8 hours 1.6th ?

06:00:13 BingoBoingo: The rig advertises 1.4, but it's been reporting ~1.32-1.55, not very stable this beast

06:00:21 mircea_popescu: %p]

06:00:24 mircea_popescu: %p

06:00:25 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.55 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

06:00:30 mircea_popescu: aha.

06:00:39 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.015 * 3 * 90

06:00:39 gribble: 4.05

06:00:44 mircea_popescu: it's really not so bad.

06:01:39 mircea_popescu: ;;seen thickasthieves

06:01:39 gribble: thickasthieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 minutes and 30 seconds ago: <thickasthieves> ;;ping

06:02:12 mircea_popescu: how the fuck is that possible, i dun see him

06:02:17 decimation: BingoBoingo: what was the hashrate?

06:02:35 BingoBoingo: decimation: Before or after I rented this?

06:02:56 mircea_popescu: was ~0 lol

06:03:00 decimation: I mean of the rig you rented

06:03:20 BingoBoingo: decimation: 1.4 TH/s

06:04:33 decimation: ;;calc (0.015*3)/1.4e6

06:04:33 gribble: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)

06:06:43 decimation: so 32 satoshis per day per megahash, not a bad price

06:07:45 mircea_popescu: bout what Blazedout419 list was showing

06:08:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's where I rented it

06:08:09 mircea_popescu: ah k

06:13:32 decimation: the lesson is that if you have access to mining hardware your best move is to rent it out, not use it for your own hashing

06:21:38 nubbins`: [03:11:08] benkay is now known as thickasthieves

06:21:38 nubbins`: [03:11:09] <+thickasthieves> ;;ping

06:32:24 pete_dushenski: well howdy

06:32:29 mircea_popescu: heyu

06:34:55 pete_dushenski: had a fun evening out with another couple

06:35:46 pete_dushenski: apparently i was on such a roll, putting other canadian boy in his place, that i've earned the title "sassbot"

06:35:58 pete_dushenski: we already have assbot, so why not?

06:36:20 pete_dushenski: nao i just need to sort out what sassbot, the real bot that is, can do for b-a...

06:37:39 mircea_popescu: !up lordbunson

06:38:22 pete_dushenski: As an outsider, it is (anthropologically) interesting to watch a bunch of (predominantly) white (predominantly) Americans (and Canadians) purport to claim that an interesting payment protocol will solve world peace, governmental overreach, and all the other ills of modernity. << as an insider, i find his use of brackets (fucktarded)

06:39:12 mircea_popescu: how the fuck are bitcoiners predominantly north us ?

06:39:13 mircea_popescu: lol.

06:39:43 mircea_popescu: "as a derp bathing in the lake, i find it interesting to pretend like the lake fauna is pretending to be the whole world. anthropologically!"

06:40:44 mircea_popescu: "i don't speak anything but english and english is mostly spoken in north america. i find this statistically interesting!"

06:41:42 pete_dushenski: "as a man stewed in the secular religion of science, let me share with you its inner workings"

06:42:25 pete_dushenski: "having completed an undergrad degree in north americanism, i'm uniquely qualified"

06:43:13 mircea_popescu: "let me tell you what i think of all the things i know nothing about. it's the reddinternet!"

06:44:45 pete_dushenski: "as long as i have my keyboard, i have my freedom and justice will prevail"

06:48:28 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/500404503980806144

06:48:29 assbot: Meet Gavin Andresen, the Most Powerful Person in the World of Bitcoin http://t.co/vIOaxSoN3x >/techreview

06:48:44 pete_dushenski: it really doesn't get much lulzier

06:50:36 pete_dushenski: other than, perhaps, another derp knocking pgp… moments before stepping down from eff

06:50:38 pete_dushenski: https://zyan.scripts.mit.edu/blog/certificate-transparency-for-pgp/

06:50:39 assbot: certificate transparency for PGP? | discrete blogarithm

06:52:33 pete_dushenski: also http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/08/whats-matter-with-pgp.html?m=1

06:52:34 assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: What's the matter with PGP?

06:52:49 pete_dushenski: usg guns ablazin' !

06:53:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00072448 = 7.5708 BTC [+] {2}

06:55:58 pete_dushenski: "If the NSA is your adversary just forget about PGP." << fucking golden

06:57:19 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you know the cryptoderpengineering thing was linked 2x

06:57:37 mircea_popescu: including that quote :D

06:57:38 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell jgarzik you gotta be fucking kidding me with this shit (https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/500224384536412160). who the fuck are you fooling with this malicious derpage?

06:57:38 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:57:52 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well now i do lol

06:58:32 pete_dushenski: still only at 0:51 on today's logs!

06:58:35 pete_dushenski: my apologies

07:15:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18091 @ 0.00072398 = 13.0975 BTC [-]

07:22:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20826 @ 0.00072495 = 15.0978 BTC [+] {2}

07:23:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18707 @ 0.0007257 = 13.5757 BTC [+] {2}

07:24:13 pete_dushenski: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/?mod=rss_Technology << uhuh

07:24:13 assbot: German Startup Says Its New Chip Halves Bitcoin Mining Energy - Digits - WSJ

07:26:18 pete_dushenski: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-china-tibet-idUSKBN0GF13V20140815

07:26:18 assbot: China opens $2-billion extension of controversial Tibet railway| Reuters

07:36:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 341 @ 0.001585 = 0.5405 BTC [-] {2}

07:42:40 mircea_popescu: %d

07:42:42 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 126204.18 in 1974 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.28

07:42:47 mircea_popescu: %p

07:42:48 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

07:50:03 []bot: Bet placed: 2.40099999 BTC for Yes on "Difficulty over 21Bn by Summer's end 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/877/ Odds: 89(Y):11(N) by coin, 89(Y):11(N) by weight. Total bet: 21.71088674 BTC. Current weight: 10,679.

07:55:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13034 @ 0.00072584 = 9.4606 BTC [+]

08:00:38 penguirker: New blog post: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

08:05:37 mircea_popescu: http://www.libertyroundtable.com/2010/03/30/bonds-what-bonds/ << the problem with this nonsense is that while the bonds do in fact in some very torturous sense make the kids "slaves", nevertheless the kids also get all the shit that the bonds bought.

08:05:38 assbot: Bonds? What Bonds? | Liberty RoundTable

08:06:01 mircea_popescu: like, kid doesn't have to go to the forest, cut logs and make a schoolhouse before he can have a basic math class.

08:06:13 mircea_popescu: same kid doesn't have to lay optic cable before he reads silly derpage on the internet.

08:06:32 mircea_popescu: so yeah, it's a give and take sort of deal. it only becomes problematic when fuckwits get a hold of the reins.

08:07:46 mircea_popescu: now if all these noob bloggers would learn to stop using disqus, the world would be such a much better place.

08:09:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16089 @ 0.00072382 = 11.6455 BTC [-] {2}

08:15:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00072349 = 21.1259 BTC [-]

08:34:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4648 @ 0.00072349 = 3.3628 BTC [-]

08:45:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00072349 = 8.2116 BTC [-]

08:57:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00072349 = 7.1987 BTC [-]

09:51:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00072568 = 14.9127 BTC [+] {2}

10:11:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00072587 = 12.0857 BTC [+] {2}

10:39:17 sgornick: Who is cascadianhacker.com ? http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/11_bitcoin-assets-new-wot-and-voice-model.html <-- Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

10:40:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14508 @ 0.00072341 = 10.4952 BTC [-] {2}

10:48:06 fluffypony: sgornick: it's ben_vulpes' blog

11:06:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00072577 = 9.0721 BTC [+]

11:31:33 mircea_popescu: sgornick ben_vulpes

11:44:59 RagnarDanneskjol: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2479145

11:45:00 assbot: Is the 52-Week High Momentum Strategy Profitable in the Foreign Exchange Market? by Ahmad Raza, Ben R. Marshall, Nuttawat Visaltanachoti :: SSRN

11:56:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00072492 = 20.2978 BTC [-] {2}

12:03:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00072386 = 9.9169 BTC [-] {2}

12:17:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4668 @ 0.00072371 = 3.3783 BTC [-]

12:33:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 325 @ 0.00159982 = 0.5199 BTC [-]

12:49:16 nanotube: ben_vulpes: yea, later tell is for casual messaging only.

13:03:02 kakobrekla: ;;google blaze foley oval room

13:03:03 gribble: Blaze Foley, Oval Room - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRLc2O1xtYk; Blaze Foley-Oval Room 1984 - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuWmIpL2GLA; Oval Room - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uahasx5h-qw

13:11:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 1000 @ 0.0005085 = 0.5085 BTC [+]

13:12:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00072438 = 13.9805 BTC [+]

13:19:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00072311 = 13.8837 BTC [-] {4}

13:24:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5376 @ 0.00072247 = 3.884 BTC [-]

14:04:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00072438 = 18.329 BTC [+]

14:15:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00072398 = 12.8868 BTC [-]

14:45:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9041 @ 0.00072435 = 6.5488 BTC [+] {2}

15:09:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20385 @ 0.00072398 = 14.7583 BTC [-]

15:19:57 asciilifeform: http://www.libertyroundtable.com/2014/01/29/tsa-harasses-police-chief-entire-police-department-fired

15:20:00 assbot: TSA Harasses Police Chief Entire Police Department Fired | Liberty RoundTable

15:23:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 700 @ 0.00152516 = 1.0676 BTC [-] {11}

15:34:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7356 @ 0.00072453 = 5.3296 BTC [+] {2}

15:36:11 pankkake: Apocalyptic: I fear your email server still doesn't handle greylisting properly :( also, setting up a SPF record would help you not getting greylisted

15:36:46 pankkake: thankfully I can cancel and retry after adding an exception

15:46:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00072474 = 13.2627 BTC [+]

16:00:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.76580864 BTC to 13`856 shares, 12744 satoshi per share

16:01:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 16.64032636 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1447 satoshi per share

16:01:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14474 @ 0.00072551 = 10.501 BTC [+] {2}

16:06:05 pankkake: Apocalyptic: nevermind, I finally got the mail

16:10:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00072577 = 5.9513 BTC [+]

16:48:12 diana_coman: ;;later tell mircea_popescu eulora crafting http://www.dianacoman.com/2014/08/16/boxy-and-his-leaky-bottle/

16:48:13 assbot: Boxy and His Leaky Bottle in Ossasepia

16:48:13 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:53:15 jurov: <asciilifeform> [03:48:59] decimation: 'cardano, design and operation' will include a nicely whittled version of 4880. << done by nubbins` ?

16:54:02 asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps

17:06:12 asciilifeform: to the folks ddosing my site last night - nice work, but no cigar.

17:06:30 copumpkin: damn, I'll have to get a better botnet

17:10:20 wyrdmantis: asciilifeform, which is your site?

17:10:32 asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: loper-os.org

17:12:04 kakobrekla: why would they ddos you?

17:12:11 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: as if i knew.

17:12:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26828 @ 0.00072588 = 19.4739 BTC [+] {2}

17:15:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42380 @ 0.0007242 = 30.6916 BTC [-] {2}

17:22:34 wyrdmantis: http://www.amazon.com/The-Bitcoin-Bible-Benjamin-Guttmann/dp/3732284328 <<<--- is this useful in your opinion? a beginner asked me, i will not buy it.

17:22:35 assbot: The Bitcoin Bible: Benjamin Guttmann: 9783732284320: Amazon.com: Books

17:24:46 punkman: wyrdmantis: no

17:25:27 wyrdmantis: punkman ok, but why?

17:25:50 wyrdmantis: if you can tell me... :)

17:26:36 punkman: wyrdmantis: a simple heuristic is "does $author even WOT?"

17:27:39 punkman: !up darlidada

17:28:04 wyrdmantis: ahahhah, i already had the answer! thanks man

17:28:21 wyrdmantis: i'm learning bit a bits

17:30:05 ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> ;;later tell jgarzik you gotta be fucking kidding me with this shit (https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/500224384536412160). who the fuck are you fooling with this malicious derpage? << this "usable lib" shit is hysterical. look - if you need to use GPG programatically, shell the fuck out to it from whatever you're doing. specify a sane homedir or even better run your application as its own user so it gets its own

17:30:05 ben_vulpes: properly perm'd homedir. if none of the above makes sense, you don't know enough about how computers work to be fucking with gpg. luckily, you'll learn it over the course of a week writing your own wrapper.

17:30:24 ben_vulpes: if over the course of that week you haven't figured it out...

17:31:01 ben_vulpes: you a) can't read documentation and b) don't know how to ask questions.

17:32:49 punkman: ben_vulpes: what's ben-ads written in?

17:38:40 ben_vulpes: clojure

17:39:18 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell sgornick you've found my "who's paying attention to me honeypot"! you get a foxcoin

17:39:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:44:52 ben_vulpes: punkman: 1377 lines of code, 2103 lines of tests

17:47:35 kakobrekla: yet its down 10% of the time? :D

17:48:12 kakobrekla: need moar tests!

17:48:57 punkman: need another 10kloc

17:50:20 wyrdmantis: bye bye guys

17:53:25 BingoBoingo: http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/6/3/8/306638_v1.jpg

17:56:25 ben_vulpes: u funny kakobrekla

17:57:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16172 @ 0.0007222 = 11.6794 BTC [-] {2}

18:11:51 pankkake: ;;ticker --market bcent --currency eur

18:11:54 gribble: Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR ticker | Best bid: 387.0, Best ask: 394.99999999, Bid-ask spread: 8.00000, Last trade: 399.0, 24 hour volume: 71.63193613, 24 hour low: 370.0, 24 hour high: 400.0, 24 hour vwap: 380.18933299

18:12:57 BingoBoingo: %p

18:12:58 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.08 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

18:16:15 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

18:16:17 gribble: Current Blocks: 315956 | Current Difficulty: 1.9729645940577133E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 316511 | Next Difficulty In: 555 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 7 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23410296459.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.65543

18:17:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13463 @ 0.00072255 = 9.7277 BTC [+]

18:26:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14730 @ 0.00072209 = 10.6364 BTC [-]

18:29:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00072209 = 11.6618 BTC [-]

19:05:57 BingoBoingo: %p

19:05:58 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.28 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

19:06:43 mircea_popescu: ahahaha mod6 you've been beat BY A GIRL ?!?!?!

19:06:57 mircea_popescu: wd diana_coman, the first eulora crafter.

19:09:07 mthreat: http://i.imgur.com/BwL1ofW.jpg

19:09:15 mthreat: (in Argentina)

19:10:09 mircea_popescu: alfajores! :D

19:10:40 mircea_popescu: they're nuts with those things, i've seen them advertised with lanky adolescent legs, with cars i think,

19:10:50 mircea_popescu: it's almost as if argentines think alfajores are mana.

19:13:56 mircea_popescu: %d

19:13:57 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 135991.25 in 1968 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -92.76

19:16:26 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so your 1.5 bitcents bought like 10 blocks ?

19:16:40 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 11

19:16:51 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 150000 / 11 / 512

19:16:52 gribble: 26.6335227273

19:17:03 mircea_popescu: you actually got 5k atc to show for it ?!

19:18:13 BingoBoingo: Well, 1900 and more coming if this pools ever solves moar blocks. Apparently I get paid later

19:18:45 BingoBoingo: Should have just set up to solo

19:19:01 mircea_popescu: i'm game. you're authorised to spend 1 btc mpif funds to rent atc hashpower, which includes cover for the prev 1.5 btc.

19:19:20 mircea_popescu: try an' get a good deal.

19:20:49 BingoBoingo: I'll shop around

19:21:00 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-105428 << why are people so mean to me ;/

19:21:02 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as “cryptocurrencies” pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:21:11 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo get something going meanwhile.

19:21:43 mircea_popescu: another few bitcents to keep that thing going won't be anyone's concern. maybe see if you can contact the rig owner or w/e. wriggle it in.

19:22:20 mircea_popescu: and in any case have stuff ready to go once diff drops, keep it sort-of level.

19:22:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00072321 = 15.2236 BTC [+]

19:24:14 mircea_popescu: "It looked like a pile of numbered cubes as it bobbed gently and flew over the landscape and under the sea. It was Boxy and it had not a worry in the world nor in his head, for his head had holes shaped like one, two, three? But it had no purpose either and so it was in search of a purpose that he explored the whole land of Eulora ? a land that was just learning to be."

19:24:18 mircea_popescu: ahah that is just great.

19:24:20 mircea_popescu: !up AndChat|679296

19:24:33 BingoBoingo: dignork: How does this setting up a stratum server work?

19:25:39 mircea_popescu: and who's running coinminer again ? hey! you here ?

19:27:05 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197906.0

19:27:05 assbot: [Pool] _-=* CoinMiner Pool *=-_ 42 http://coinminer.net:19991/

19:28:24 mircea_popescu: !up CS1980

19:28:32 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sent him a PM on the forum

19:28:47 BingoBoingo: Hello CS1980

19:28:50 CS1980: hello everyone

19:28:52 mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought someone in the wot was running an atc pool.

19:28:58 mircea_popescu: i guess i got confused.

19:29:04 mircea_popescu: CS1980 who're you ?

19:29:28 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197906.msg5870328#msg5870328 lol

19:29:28 assbot: [Pool] _-=* CoinMiner Pool *=-_ 42 http://coinminer.net:19991/

19:30:05 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There's also Pity the Pool, but they... are reporting 0 hash

19:30:13 mircea_popescu: so ?

19:30:18 mircea_popescu: o, you mean even when you mine ?

19:31:44 BingoBoingo: Haven't mined it yet but I'll point a trickle there to see if they report anything... Once I make an account as I am nao

19:34:31 diana_coman: hello all

19:34:35 diana_coman: thanks mircea_popescu

19:34:47 diana_coman: any pointers to figure out atc? I have no idea on it, lol

19:35:00 Chris_Sabian: which part of ATC?

19:35:16 diana_coman: any part, I know nothing more about it than that I won 500 of it lol

19:35:27 mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's just a direct btc clone, really. you can even use btc addresses for it.

19:35:51 mircea_popescu: %t

19:35:55 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 188 Ask: 221 Last Price: 188 24h-Vol: 5k High: 188 Low: 188 VWAP: 188

19:36:05 mircea_popescu: %d

19:36:06 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 135991.25 in 1968 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -92.76

19:36:08 mircea_popescu: that'd be it ^

19:36:12 diana_coman: uh oh, then...why ? I'm fine with btc, lol

19:36:19 Chris_Sabian: ThickAsThieves started it as a CoinGen bitcoin clone in late january 2014. people have been mining since then. they are worth about 200 satoshi

19:36:28 mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's mostly a b-a insider joke.

19:37:19 diana_coman: mircea_popescu ahh, now I remember something from the logs, I had rather skipped it though so far as not-on-my-list

19:37:24 diana_coman: will go back and have a look, thanks

19:38:20 Chris_Sabian: not sure if there has been any development on atc or if there will ever be

19:38:52 mircea_popescu: well for instance you can play wol.

19:38:58 mircea_popescu: or you mean ON THE PROTOCOL ?

19:39:37 Chris_Sabian: either.

19:39:57 Chris_Sabian: i've heard of wol but never looked into it.

19:39:58 mircea_popescu: only altchain you can play wol on.

19:40:13 mircea_popescu: https://btc.waroflife.com/

19:40:14 assbot: War of Life - Cellular automata to the death!

19:40:55 mircea_popescu: https://btc.waroflife.com/gow/24/ this actually looks kinda pretty.

19:40:56 assbot: Game 24 - Death 4336 Life 5664 Year 1000 - War of Life

19:49:43 BingoBoingo: %p

19:49:44 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.08 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

19:49:53 mod6: not the predicted 93% of the broken bitcoin-asset bot. << dick. this number comes from atc.blockr.io

19:51:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00072189 = 9.3846 BTC [-] {2}

19:54:18 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has a point, it doesn't move more than 4x either way on a recalibration

19:54:24 BingoBoingo: Ah, PitythePool just doesn't work

19:54:28 mircea_popescu: however, it's purely academic. so it takes more blocks. same deal.

19:54:41 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a fine mess! where is tat! :D

19:55:31 mod6: mircea_popescu: maybe so. the bot just reports what it's handed. just trying to defend my code's honor so to speak. lol

19:58:00 BingoBoingo: Yes, where is Tat!

20:04:41 BingoBoingo: %p

20:04:42 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.19 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

20:05:53 BingoBoingo: Emailed the PitythePool guy

20:08:56 mircea_popescu: !up railzand

20:09:46 railzand: Thank you Mr P. I'm the idiot who broke altcoin. I beg your forgiveness

20:10:06 BingoBoingo: railzand: What did you do?

20:10:31 railzand: I pointed 12.5 T at it on a stratum server

20:13:13 mircea_popescu: railzand lol hey, it's supposed to be tried out.

20:13:20 mircea_popescu: so point 12.5t at it again.

20:13:33 ben_vulpes: (and leave it there?)

20:13:54 mircea_popescu: well not rly, just, get diff more in line with mkt value

20:13:56 railzand: Is that my punishment? I am but a poor peon...

20:14:18 mircea_popescu: lol what, you rented it ?

20:14:23 BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust railzand

20:14:24 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user railzand: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=BingoBoingo&dest=railzand | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=railzand | Rated since: never

20:14:42 BingoBoingo: railzand: Which stratum server was this?

20:15:05 railzand: Yes rented from a guy who knows how to do all that

20:15:28 mircea_popescu: well so did you actually make a profit ?

20:16:02 railzand: I made .2x real coin and 43000 alt

20:16:17 mircea_popescu: sounds a little under my earlier estimate :o

20:16:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, so get the guy in question to come here. we were looking for someone to rent from anyway

20:16:42 railzand: ok

20:19:19 mircea_popescu: !up X-Rob

20:19:28 X-Rob: Morning 8)

20:19:36 mircea_popescu: heya. who're you ?

20:19:44 X-Rob: Just a guy

20:19:49 mircea_popescu: cool.

20:19:54 railzand: X-Rob saw me through the raping of altcoin

20:20:28 mircea_popescu: X-Rob so you're this guy http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-08-2014#798617 ?

20:20:29 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log

20:20:52 X-Rob: Yeah

20:21:29 mircea_popescu: aite, so you got some hash to rent out ?

20:22:19 X-Rob: Yeah, I do!

20:22:20 X-Rob: https://leaserig.net/index.jsp?fprovider=xrobau&t=1

20:22:21 assbot: LeaseRig.net - Mining Rigs   - Rent and Lease Mining Rigs for Bitcoin, Litecoin and Altcoin Mining.

20:22:34 kakobrekla: laser rig!

20:22:43 X-Rob: However, full disclosure, etc, I'm the guy who caused all that shitstorm with that new unattainum scamcoin

20:22:43 mircea_popescu: lol totally.

20:22:51 mircea_popescu: what shitstorm was that ?

20:22:55 X-Rob: Excellent

20:23:02 X-Rob: Let's just leave it like that then

20:23:17 X-Rob: (that was the correct answer)

20:23:49 mircea_popescu: !s unattanium

20:23:49 assbot: 0 results for 'unattanium' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=unattanium

20:24:20 mircea_popescu: https://www.google.com/search?q=unattanium+scamcoin&complete=0&gws_rd=ssl << i like it when .lk outranks tardstalk

20:24:20 assbot: unattanium scamcoin - Google Search

20:24:27 X-Rob: IT's actually Unattainium

20:24:30 X-Rob: an extra i

20:25:22 X-Rob: however, you can look through my bct ('xrobau') profile for me trying to argue with idiots. I gave up, however.

20:25:33 railzand: ;;ident

20:25:33 gribble: Nick 'railzand', with hostmask 'railzand!sid39942@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjuerwktzpwyvmkj', is identified as user 'railzand', with GPG key id 449DCE0C3F3952EA, key fingerprint 1CFAF95FA34862FCD62A33A3449DCE0C3F3952EA, and bitcoin address None

20:26:18 mircea_popescu: X-Rob so just like mpoe-pr, two years later.

20:26:35 mircea_popescu: anyway, so it's either the 1.2 or the 12.7 rig ?

20:26:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00072216 = 3.2497 BTC [+] {2}

20:26:50 X-Rob: That's meant to be 13, but a couple of S2s are running slow

20:27:04 X-Rob: so I downspecced it.

20:27:23 X-Rob: and yes

20:27:30 X-Rob: I can organise larger hashrates if you want

20:27:39 mircea_popescu: what i actually want is like 2.x ish

20:27:51 X-Rob: 2th?

20:27:56 mircea_popescu: something like that.

20:28:16 X-Rob: for how long?

20:28:21 mircea_popescu: but i guess the lower one would work. how'd you feel about a longer term deal ? willing to move on the price a little ?

20:28:53 X-Rob: Depends on how long you want it for

20:29:00 X-Rob: 8)

20:29:18 mircea_popescu: something like 3 months

20:29:25 X-Rob: 2th for 3 months.

20:29:29 *: X-Rob grabs a calculator

20:30:27 kakobrekla: if there isnt a significant discount you are better off to rehire every diff change hehe

20:30:32 kakobrekla: i mean btc diff change.

20:30:48 mircea_popescu: precisely.

20:31:13 X-Rob: OK

20:31:16 X-Rob: http://www.evolyn.net/bitcoin/mining_calc.php?version_major=2&version_minor=4&presents=none&h=1700&MinerPowerDrain=0&MinerCosts=0&MinerDeliveryTime=0&NetworkBlockHeight=315968&Difficulty=19729645940.577&DifChange0P=%2B10&DifChange0A=0&MiscUSDBTC=400&MiscUSDBTCChange0P=%2B10&MiscElectricityCosts=0.32&MiscCalculationLength=360&MiscShownIntervalLength=30&btn_st

20:31:16 assbot: Bitcoin Mining Calculator

20:31:16 X-Rob: artcalculate=true

20:31:19 X-Rob: Crap

20:31:23 X-Rob: Link's too long

20:31:30 mircea_popescu: we welcome your sausage donation.

20:31:36 X-Rob: that says 2 months = 2btc for 1.7

20:32:24 X-Rob: I'm happy to lease for that

20:32:38 X-Rob: We can do it all through leaserig so you can control where it points

20:32:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu and all other 'trinitron' aficionados: when you get the inevitable tube fade, do you boost the electron gun voltage? or bite the bullet and somehow conjure up a new (!) tube ?

20:32:49 X-Rob: 3 months is.. unwise.

20:32:50 mircea_popescu: is laserig your thing ?

20:32:59 X-Rob: nah, I just rent my gear through there

20:33:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i use my displays incredibly low.

20:33:22 mircea_popescu: X-Rob well, i dun know em, i dun trust em, and we have a similar problem : you're not in the wot.

20:33:26 asciilifeform: darkroom ?

20:33:32 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: uh I am?

20:33:38 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust X-Rob

20:33:38 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user X-Rob: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=X-Rob | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=X-Rob | Rated since: Mon May 16 20:47:55 2011

20:33:39 X-Rob: you mean gribble?

20:33:43 mircea_popescu: ^

20:33:48 X-Rob: ;;gettrust xrobau

20:33:48 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask X-Rob!sid14615@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofnkmqlfshhqtblr. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user xrobau to user xrobau: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xrobau&dest=xrobau | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=xrobau | Rated since: Thu Apr 4 18:48:30 2013

20:33:59 mircea_popescu: yes but that's not how this thing works.

20:34:12 mircea_popescu: i guess i should have said you're not in mine.

20:34:23 X-Rob: fair enough

20:34:23 X-Rob: well

20:34:27 X-Rob: I'm not anonymous.

20:34:31 X-Rob: I have a reputation thread

20:34:48 X-Rob: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=513500.0

20:34:48 assbot: xrobau Reputation thread.

20:34:57 kakobrekla: i have a reputation dildo

20:35:00 mircea_popescu: lol

20:35:05 mircea_popescu: now what was that,

20:35:32 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 200000000 / 1.7 / 60 / 24 / 3600

20:35:32 gribble: 22.6942628903

20:35:55 X-Rob: I'm actually away at my inlaws this weekend

20:36:01 mircea_popescu: so like 2.269 satoshi/day or did i just broke the maths ?

20:36:10 X-Rob: and the kids are now up and want to play minecraft on the laptop

20:36:21 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: use the link I pasted

20:36:21 mircea_popescu: aite, so return later!

20:36:33 X-Rob: which is based on http://bit.ly/roi-s2

20:36:33 assbot: Bitcoin Mining Calculator

20:36:34 X-Rob: jsut doubled

20:36:35 X-Rob: 8)

20:37:04 X-Rob: anyway, toodles 8-)

20:37:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00072159 = 12.3392 BTC [-] {2}

20:39:02 mircea_popescu: yeah well that link doesn't have avalon 3 blades

20:39:36 mod6: I guess I could just put a line in there to set the % est. diff change to -75% of less than that number is received from the source.

20:40:03 mircea_popescu: mod6 dun worry about it, it doesn't need fixing.

20:40:39 mod6: ok thx.

20:42:04 mircea_popescu: and of course the spec is a gnarly pos. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon3 anywhere from 310 to 410 w per o.o

20:42:05 assbot: Avalon3 - Bitcoin

20:42:26 asciilifeform: still boggling mind at the newest pgp hatchet job. why the idiocy? or rather, why was it not cushioned in perfectly logical criticism of the spec (crufty; mandates support for hideously weak algos; etc) ?

20:43:14 asciilifeform: almost enough to believe that the author is secretly on the side of the forces of good - i.e. he isn't genuinely trying to fool anyone

20:43:48 asciilifeform: like the mythical einsatzgruppen kommando loading blank shells.

20:45:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because they can't afford to pay smart people enough.

20:45:41 asciilifeform: can't afford - or won't prioritize ?

20:45:45 mircea_popescu: can.not.afford.

20:45:52 mod6: that seems like a shitton of power for one chip mp O.o

20:46:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23921 @ 0.00072431 = 17.3262 BTC [+] {2}

20:46:08 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has 6 of em. they're rated 280ish to 310ish ea

20:46:08 asciilifeform: i bet that eth dump could've bought some talent.

20:46:23 asciilifeform: (or, hell, $bignum printed bezzlars)

20:46:29 mod6: huh

20:48:34 *: asciilifeform favours crackpot theory: the seekrit skvirels prefer to enlist 'pure blood aryans' and this is a painful constraint for them

20:48:45 BingoBoingo: lol

20:50:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's provably false : if they did, you'd know what the definition of aryan is.

20:50:59 asciilifeform: definition of aryan << something like herr snowden

20:51:27 mircea_popescu: "something like" is not much of a definition.

20:51:31 asciilifeform: american military tradition borrows heavily from the brits

20:51:44 mircea_popescu: orly. how did they manage to enlist a tranny then ?

20:52:21 asciilifeform: enlist a tranny << slightly different dynamic there. any street scum can enlist as a private

20:52:43 asciilifeform: i think they even removed the age limits recently

20:53:22 mircea_popescu: but... they gave him the keys.

20:53:24 asciilifeform: 'diplomatic' (intelligence) corps are still largely 'aryan' afaik

20:54:00 mircea_popescu: you're trying to sell this conceptual model where in alt-nazi germany one can be hung for being a jew ONLY IF working as a clerk.

20:54:10 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, all gravy.

20:54:22 asciilifeform: they gave him the keys << the anglos have a historic problem, in that they never invented политрукs

20:54:32 mircea_popescu: by its very nature aryan-ism has to be universal.

20:54:38 mircea_popescu: too painful cognitive dissonance otherwise.

20:54:48 asciilifeform: thus they have issues with quis custodiet ipsos custodes

20:55:25 asciilifeform: ^ re: the conundrum of why a private has 'the keys'

20:55:45 mircea_popescu: For those that are unaware, Unattanium is a newish limited-number-of-coins SHA coin. They've recently had to fork the chain, because the difficulty calculations were broken, and it went far too high. Sadly, they've now broken it in the other direction, and the dev seems intent on ignoring this, and abusing or hand-waving the problems away. It's now running at an 8 second block time. For everyone who is NOT facepalming

20:55:45 mircea_popescu: right now, this is faster than blockchain propagation. Basically, it will be amazingly difficulty for the coin to agree on a valid chain, because there will be any number of chains that are almost the same length.

20:55:45 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

20:55:46 mircea_popescu: what a gem.

20:57:10 *: asciilifeform returns, every time he thinks about any of this, to the Great Mystery of why our beloved phriends never, ever leak anything interestingly cryptological

20:58:01 *: asciilifeform wants to know wtf is in 'suite A' (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323), how AES drips key bits, etc.

20:58:24 mircea_popescu: stan's wishlist :D

20:59:20 asciilifeform: if wishes were atomic dirigibles, beggars would rain thermonuclear hell upon their enemies.

21:00:43 asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a leak history that favours tedious operational garbage and entirely omits the good stuff suggests 'hangout'

21:01:03 diana_coman: mircea_popescu how do I get my crafting prize and is there a time limit for that (to know how much time I have to figure out the basics of altcoin)?

21:01:05 *: asciilifeform regards hypothesis 'there is no good stuff' as unproven

21:01:57 mircea_popescu: diana_coman no time limit. you post an address.

21:02:12 diana_coman: mircea_popescu great, thanks

21:02:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the stuff that was leaked so far mostly follows the "brain percentage" criterion.

21:02:37 mircea_popescu: the stuff you want to know about, three people know. unless one of them is the source, it's not leaking.

21:03:17 mod6: ;;rate diana_coman 1 Won Eulora Crafting Prize

21:03:18 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diana_coman has been recorded.

21:04:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not necessarily. the inventor, of, say, 'joseki' is probably long dead - but a small army of monkeys (engineers, sw/hw production staff, auditors, etc) have access to 'the goods' - and they aren't leaking either.

21:04:38 mircea_popescu: small.

21:04:41 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb

21:04:49 mircea_popescu: it's purely statistical, like say a biopsy.

21:04:55 gribble: Time since last block: 50 minutes and 36 seconds

21:05:02 mircea_popescu: you'll find much less pituitary cells in a random biopsy than muscle tissue

21:05:02 BingoBoingo: ^ Oh no, not BTC too!!!

21:06:39 diana_coman: ;;rate mod6 1 graceful competitor for Eulora Crafting Prize

21:06:40 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.

21:06:47 diana_coman: mod6 thank you!

21:08:09 asciilifeform: at the risk of sounding like anatoliy golitsyn (infamous fellow who insists, even today, that ussr faked its own death) - the available, afaik, evidence suggests either terrible - or incredibly good - cryptology

21:08:10 mircea_popescu: this is pretty cool.

21:08:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me put it some other way. wouldn't you expect that if mp is conversant in pgp, so would be obama ?

21:09:04 mircea_popescu: so that people couldn't like, you knoiw, steal his selfies from his plaintext gmail acct ?

21:09:16 asciilifeform: obama - no. private cocksucker - also no. shadowfuhrer? sure.

21:09:31 mod6: diana_coman: np! good work :)

21:09:36 mircea_popescu: oh shadowfuhrer is it.

21:09:46 mircea_popescu: that's a contradiction in terms don't you know.

21:10:27 *: asciilifeform searches for a better term, involving puppets and strings

21:10:39 mircea_popescu: dr who ?

21:10:56 asciilifeform: let's say 'reptilian king' or the like.

21:11:30 mircea_popescu: so who was d. f. augustus' ?

21:12:03 mircea_popescu: the spirit of gaius ?

21:12:10 asciilifeform: lol

21:13:43 mircea_popescu: you're possibly the most mystically inclined engineer i know.

21:14:07 mircea_popescu: i foresee that when you;ll be old you'll write a great kids book.

21:14:12 asciilifeform: ahaha

21:14:19 mircea_popescu: for srs.

21:14:35 asciilifeform: nothing mystical about thinking like a proper armchair general and pondering the strength of the hidden column of enemy

21:14:55 asciilifeform: when the apparent column is so suggestive of 'ablative' cannon fodder tactic.

21:16:13 mircea_popescu: the notion that there exists an unseen reality behind the seen reality, whether right or wrong, is the very substance of mysticism.

21:16:43 asciilifeform: for proper mysticism, the hidden side must be deemed 'unknowable'

21:16:46 asciilifeform: here is is merely unknown.

21:17:12 asciilifeform: it will make itself known, presumably, if it advances to the front line and 'fires' - but wouldn't it be great to know -before- ?

21:17:21 mircea_popescu: no, that's hermetism.

21:17:31 mircea_popescu: mysticism is an erryday activity.

21:18:04 mircea_popescu: it somewhat shares the fate of "frustration" in the hands of popidiocy. but outside of what the reddit horde thinks, frustration is a major psychological process, the fundament of all volitive activity.

21:18:12 asciilifeform: mysticism: 'the gods shall strike us down' pragmatic armchair generalship: 'that fellow might have a pen gun up his arse'

21:18:34 mircea_popescu: the gods shall strike us down thing is mere eschatology.

21:18:40 jurov: is there a historical example of such a mastermind?

21:18:44 mircea_popescu: lives on a different plane.

21:19:20 asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps i implied that a literal 'lizard king' lives. this is not a necessary hypothesis for a cryptologically-strong usa

21:19:39 asciilifeform: 'lizard king' perhaps should be understood as 'set of remaining competent commanders'

21:20:00 jurov: that falls into mastermind definition too, you know

21:20:06 asciilifeform: i.e. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772890

21:20:07 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log

21:20:22 mircea_popescu: the sadest fate in the world would be for such a set to exist, ina bunker somewhere.

21:20:39 mircea_popescu: imagine if you went to hibernate like a bear, and when you came through all your shit was broken and unresponsive.

21:20:51 asciilifeform: aye. sorta like the japanese version of 'manhattan project'

21:21:02 asciilifeform: (they, if i recall, were actually on the right track, unlike germany)

21:21:35 jurov: how would the graybearded dude be able even remotely comprehend all the intelligence?

21:21:55 jurov: even mircea with all his minions says it's unlikely

21:22:25 asciilifeform: jurov: the hypothetical master doesn't need to. he just sorta sits there quietly and bakes pills against rsa; creates diddled but internationally-appealing block ciphers; etc

21:23:09 jurov: but you imply he needs to pull strings in addition to that

21:23:13 asciilifeform: he sits and plays 'tetris' on his handmade optical cpu

21:24:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a brain devoid of spinal chord can not work.

21:24:05 asciilifeform: the strings, in this hypothetical narrative, are pulled by another master - one of disinfo, whose purpose would then consist of shielding the former greybeard.

21:24:08 mircea_popescu: your "mastermind", provided he exists, is drunk and insane.

21:24:13 jurov: so now we know what stan's fapping to

21:24:16 mircea_popescu: lol

21:24:21 asciilifeform: lelz

21:24:57 jurov: handmade optical cpus

21:25:03 assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/13NWTKZ.txt )

21:25:03 BingoBoingo: !b 6

21:25:11 asciilifeform: this is, admittedly, merely a plausible - if fantastic - hypothesis. but one admitted by the known facts. -- like the nonphysical solution to a quadratic.

21:25:30 mircea_popescu: it's not plausible. it is entertaining, but it lacks a fundamental point for plausibility :

21:25:32 mircea_popescu: it's unbalanced.

21:26:46 asciilifeform: unbalanced ?

21:26:51 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:27:00 asciilifeform: how's that

21:27:38 mircea_popescu: well let's see. suppose you have a wol game table.

21:28:10 mircea_popescu: while in principle any configuration is as possible as any other, the configuration you propose is mod2. ie, if the cell index is odd, cell is dead, if not, alive.

21:28:22 mircea_popescu: this is not actually a possible outcome.

21:28:30 asciilifeform: this is known as a 'garden of eden state'

21:28:35 asciilifeform: (in cellular automata jargon)

21:28:41 mircea_popescu: it's what i mean by unbalanced.

21:29:03 mircea_popescu: if you take "meaning" as a rough equivalent for entalpy, your thing is too meaningful to exist.

21:29:13 asciilifeform: but how does this apply? my hypothetical is a historically-humdrum 'skunk works' scenario

21:29:18 mircea_popescu: no, it's not.

21:29:34 mircea_popescu: your hypotethical is a brain in a jar separated from a pile of muscle in a barrel.

21:29:48 mircea_popescu: which both, independently, work, for the greater glory of theoretical abstraction

21:30:20 mircea_popescu: this is directly contradictory to how the world works, and specifically because your abstract objects tend to be contextless, which requires too large an expenditure of "meaning" for them to exist.

21:30:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00072126 = 12.4417 BTC [-]

21:31:33 mircea_popescu: which makes jurov's fap observation quite on point : you're not describing a real, live human female here, you're describing a mythological beast abstracted out of miles of pr0nz reel.

21:31:47 asciilifeform: let's give them some context, then. picture scenario where the $maxint in u.s. cryptologic work actually resulted in something useful. but, so useful that, like a thermonuke, it isn't fit to trot out on just any everyday occasion.

21:32:00 asciilifeform: how would this world's observables differ from the known observables?

21:32:40 mircea_popescu: well counterfactuals are problematic, but let's see if you can get painted into a corner.

21:32:46 asciilifeform: please do

21:32:47 mircea_popescu: does this SU exist ?

21:33:03 mircea_popescu: (something useful)

21:33:15 asciilifeform: that's the hypothesis. what if yes ?

21:33:31 mircea_popescu: we are already accepting your hypothesis, im asking you q's as if your h was reality.

21:34:23 mircea_popescu: so admitting it exists. has it ever been used ?

21:35:21 asciilifeform: well then. suppose, bush sr., or whoever, circa '92, whenever, was informed of the discovery, in his fuhrerbunker. then he proclaims: 'let's get the people with valuable secrets to use rsa. how to do this?'

21:35:32 mircea_popescu: ah won';t you just play my oracle here ?

21:35:48 mircea_popescu: jus answer what i ask, see where we end up.

21:35:52 asciilifeform: i'd say it has not been used. waiting to the pig to get fatter, before slaughter.

21:36:02 mircea_popescu: so it's never been used. is it physically located ?

21:36:17 asciilifeform: sure. 'indiana jones vault' or the like.

21:36:28 mircea_popescu: does everybody know about it ?

21:36:34 asciilifeform: naturally not.

21:37:01 mircea_popescu: what keeps central government from investigating this vault as a possible alien landing site ?

21:37:06 asciilifeform: some small circle of people would be privy to it.

21:37:16 mircea_popescu: are they in power ?

21:37:22 asciilifeform: like the proverbial 'bomb codes'.

21:38:01 asciilifeform: 'in power' in as much as anyone guarding something of value can be thought of as 'in power.'

21:38:16 mircea_popescu: but if they are not in power absolutely, what keeps central government from investigating this vault as a possible alien landing site ?

21:38:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: familiar with the story of jimmy carter and 'area 51' known to the alien aficionados?

21:38:40 mircea_popescu: vaguely.

21:38:43 asciilifeform: it went entirely like the tale of gorbachev and andropov

21:38:46 asciilifeform: and the soviet gdp.

21:38:56 mircea_popescu: tales tend to all go alike for the reason that they're tales.

21:39:02 asciilifeform: 'mr carter, you aren't cleared for this, and if you ask again there will be problems.'

21:39:06 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, my q needs an answer :D

21:40:34 *: asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't personally boot carter - or gorbached - from the goodies vault. but tale is plausible. compartmentalization of 'fun secrets' is generally easy because of the miniscule number of qualified thieves - that is, folks who apprehend the true value of the goods.

21:41:00 mircea_popescu: but the people doing it have to be in power.

21:41:08 mircea_popescu: without the "will be problems" rider this fizzles.

21:41:37 asciilifeform: more traditional question - who, if anyone, can pilfer a working nuke?

21:41:59 asciilifeform: and correctly put it to its intended use

21:42:05 mircea_popescu: you're doing the psychic thing now, where you try to flee the experiment.

21:42:51 asciilifeform: just trying to argue against 'nothing so valuable can exist, it would've been lifted by now'

21:43:04 mircea_popescu: that's not what i said at any point

21:43:11 asciilifeform: help me along then

21:43:14 asciilifeform: what's the experiment here

21:43:33 mircea_popescu: well, either the SU keepers are in (absolute) power, or else they are not.

21:43:51 mircea_popescu: if they are not, the number of problems that appear is overwhelming.

21:44:03 mircea_popescu: if they are, then they have had to have kept it historically. this is also overwhelming.

21:44:16 mircea_popescu: it neatly reduces to an argument pro deus.

21:44:17 asciilifeform: why this dichotomy. is it not possible for them to have absolute power to guard 'the goods' but not, say, to control other aspects of the world ? like any ordinary guard

21:44:25 mircea_popescu: no. power does not divide.

21:44:41 mircea_popescu: this is why the government needs both the power to kill people and the power to inflate the currency,

21:44:49 mircea_popescu: and this is why wrestling any away is enough to kill the thing.

21:46:29 asciilifeform: so, continuing with this lemma, the 'guard' is an impossibility because, were he to exist, he could trivially order his supposed superiors to disappear forever up their own arses, should he wish this?

21:48:09 mircea_popescu: basically.

21:48:28 mircea_popescu: now, in usual high fiction this is resolved as a bizarre order of sworn monks and so on

21:48:43 mircea_popescu: but mind ye that all through the middle ages about half the bastards were sons of monks.

21:49:14 asciilifeform: this is almost convincing re: the impossibility argument. but suppose the goods isn't a generic rsa pill, but something more akin to nuke. that is, oppenheimer & friends didn't run off to an island and form own kingdom, because their 'jewel' required astonishing resources to put into action (industrial empire) and not very useful on their own, on paper

21:49:18 asciilifeform: to make more concrete:

21:49:35 asciilifeform: say, a factoring algo that runs in polynomial time but with a stupidly large constant factor.

21:50:54 asciilifeform: i wouldn't imagine the 'sworn monks' can keep the lid on indefinitely - only thus far. as we've seen, they succeed in keeping the lid on 'suite a' & co. is the argument, then, that the pressure under the lid cannot be too high then ?

21:51:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, but then <mircea_popescu> does everybody know about it ?

21:51:59 asciilifeform: let's give example from outside of cryptology

21:52:19 asciilifeform: it is generally known that the 20th c. 'holy grail' of nuke engineering was the so-called 'pure fusion' device.

21:52:26 asciilifeform: that is, requiring no fissile initiator

21:52:49 asciilifeform: official story is that both east and west expended astonishing resources on the problem - and, generally believed, that nothing came of this.

21:53:25 asciilifeform: if either side had tested a working pure fusion device, in the customary 'drilled well' method, the public would not necessarily have learned of the fact.

21:53:46 mircea_popescu: but <mircea_popescu> does this SU exist ?

21:54:03 asciilifeform: someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.

21:54:35 asciilifeform: i do not know whether it exists.

21:54:53 asciilifeform: but posit that it could, given observables.

21:58:05 mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDeck

22:04:49 MolokoDeck: wondering what method(s) you had in mind for placing arbitrary hashes into the blockchain.

22:06:35 MolokoDeck: i'm not sure a wallet API is adequate to sculpt transaction scripts to insert data. they're usually constrained to sending payments. bitcoind RPC calls would be needed for anything exotic.

22:06:37 asciilifeform: MolokoDeck: probably simplest solution: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490 -- but can be trivially improved on.

22:06:38 assbot: Loper OS » Practical Blockchain Telegraphy.

22:06:53 MolokoDeck: I'll look into it.

22:06:56 MolokoDeck: clue.

22:10:48 mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck if the worst comes to worst, hash it into a bitcoin address and send there.

22:11:09 MolokoDeck: burn the minimum transaction fee/size sure.

22:11:20 mircea_popescu: you burn that anyway.

22:11:57 MolokoDeck: was considering something that popped an invalid address then dismissed it before doing the actual spend. sort of a address=hashdata, oops, address=actualwalletaddress

22:12:43 MolokoDeck: I'd have to look more into how the stack language handles that or whether that's even doable with the restricted opcode set.

22:13:26 MolokoDeck: ok. I'll keep looking into it. solutions exist.

22:17:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1800 @ 0.00159967 = 2.8794 BTC [+] {3}

22:17:52 mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck actually i like the model whereby the actual string to certify is hashed as a privkey then made into a bitcoin address then have a little something sent there

22:18:05 mircea_popescu: because anyone can spend the something, and in so doing super-prove the whole charade.

22:18:25 mircea_popescu: basically we get a btc faucet built in.

22:20:34 ben_vulpes: bitcoin scavenger hunts!

22:20:40 ben_vulpes: find the correct string, spend the btc!

22:20:54 ben_vulpes: has this been done?

22:21:46 mircea_popescu: not rly.

22:21:59 ben_vulpes: could be a neat implementation for your next cryptogram, mircea_popescu

22:22:00 punkman: there's been a few

22:22:06 mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck and also there's no cruft, perfectly standard tx, can use any webwallet, it's perfect. look no further, this is what i want.

22:22:23 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i considered it but it'd kinda make it only 1 guy.

22:22:49 punkman: MolokoDeck: in case you didn't see this in the logs: https://github.com/maraoz/proofofexistence

22:22:50 assbot: maraoz/proofofexistence GitHub

22:26:10 chetty: <ben_vulpes> find the correct string, spend the btc!//souds better than rolling dice games :))

22:32:09 nubbins`: ^ XD

22:32:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00072069 = 12.4679 BTC [-]

22:49:48 mircea_popescu: ;;rate X-Rob 1 splendid work on that derpcoin. https://bitcointa.lk/threads/unattanium-broken-by-design.351020/ so much lol.

22:49:49 assbot: Unattanium: Broken by design. | Bitcointa.lk

22:49:50 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user X-Rob has been recorded.

22:52:12 mircea_popescu: !s cryptmarketcap.com

22:52:12 assbot: 0 results for 'cryptmarketcap.com' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=cryptmarketcap.com

22:54:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20567 @ 0.00072098 = 14.8284 BTC [+]

22:56:29 mircea_popescu: pankkake what's the pool situation on atc ?

22:59:50 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell X-Rob say when you're back.

22:59:50 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:00:46 mircea_popescu: !up X-Rob

23:00:52 X-Rob: I've been here

23:00:55 mircea_popescu: ah hey.

23:00:58 X-Rob: Thanks 8)

23:01:30 mircea_popescu: so since i like you now, you can have 2 btc for the 2 month aus3 miner contract.

23:01:50 mircea_popescu: you happy with weekly payments ?

23:01:54 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I'll be home in about 4 hours or so

23:01:59 mircea_popescu: (weekly advance payments)

23:02:04 X-Rob: I'll set it up with you them

23:02:17 mircea_popescu: cool.

23:02:27 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: sign up with a lease rig account

23:02:36 X-Rob: They do all that stuff for me

23:02:42 mircea_popescu: but i dun wanna ;/

23:02:59 X-Rob: You pay them, however often you want

23:03:42 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: hrm. How are you planning on controlling the rig then?

23:05:37 mircea_popescu: i was thinking of gving you a pool to point at and forgetting about it.

23:06:18 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: well, if that's all you want, no problems

23:06:24 mircea_popescu: cool.

23:06:28 mircea_popescu: and also, you can self-voice now.

23:06:37 mircea_popescu: all you need is to pm assbot !up while idented.

23:06:47 X-Rob: Thanks

23:08:07 mircea_popescu: a btw. dignork where are you hashing ?

23:09:07 dignork: last few hours it was offline, but in general it's solo

23:09:18 mircea_popescu: ah k

23:10:53 dignork: BingoBoingo was askin about stratum: i have a simple setup with local altcoind and https://github.com/pocesar/node-stratum

23:10:54 assbot: pocesar/node-stratum GitHub

23:20:59 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust Mortimer452

23:21:00 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Mortimer452: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=Mortimer452 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mortimer452 | Rated since: never

23:23:09 []bot: Bet created: "BTC 100 times bigger than LTC Feb 1st" http://bitbet.us/bet/1024/

23:24:02 mircea_popescu: %p

23:24:04 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.87 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s

23:24:16 mircea_popescu: mod6 http://ispace.co.uk/ << any way to add these ppls ?

23:24:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.0007205 = 2.9541 BTC [-] {2}

23:27:16 []bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin over $600 before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1025/

23:30:53 dignork: ;;later tell BingoBoingo atc stratum server -> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3f743a63dbf257b11641

23:30:53 assbot: sample ATC stratum server - uses https://github.com/pocesar/node-stratum

23:30:53 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:31:13 mircea_popescu: !up guest3476

23:31:46 mircea_popescu: dignork honestly i think i'd rather use a pool. get some of that reaganomics trickle down effect going.

23:38:11 RagnarDanneskjol: i know these guys host/build stratum pools as described: http://www.livechains.net/

23:38:12 assbot: LiveChains UK

23:40:25 dignork: mircea_popescu: I ran it this way to play with the technology, economical/game theory considerations are not so important for me on alt.

23:40:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6259 @ 0.00072098 = 4.5126 BTC [+]

23:42:45 mircea_popescu: yeah.