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Transcript for 17-01-2016, 1234 lines:

00:00:02 jurov: to go back to original issue, how can multiple centers of power exist in bitcoin?

00:00:06 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

00:00:08 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 388.4, Best ask: 388.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 388.4, 24 hour volume: 74062.16019306, 24 hour low: 352.5, 24 hour high: 392.5, 24 hour vwap: None

00:00:14 pete_dushenski: ^broomsticky

00:01:02 pete_dushenski: jurov: i guess i don't see that all the world's power ~has~ to be "in" bitcoin.

00:01:52 pete_dushenski: so while bitcoin might be more politically centralised, there's a whole lot else out there in the wild

00:02:13 pete_dushenski: how many "bitcoin devs teams" are there ? a dozen ?

00:02:35 jurov: you call them "centers of power"? fo srs

00:03:56 pete_dushenski: relatively speaking, sure. within the minds of the many, many "people" who bestow it upon them. the scrillion branches of xtianity are no different in this regard. and they all have some measure of power.

00:05:08 pete_dushenski: this minor power might not move mountains or build space rockets, but it can provide health care, "education," "a sense of community" etc

00:05:28 jurov: when did you start considering headcount as a measure?

00:06:12 pete_dushenski: it's always been a measure, just depends on what for.

00:06:29 pete_dushenski: isis measures in headcounts (on stakes)

00:08:23 jurov: so, if bitcoin becomes world's reserve currency but people will still "bestow" upon usd

00:08:29 jurov: where is the power center?

00:09:52 jurov: i'm lost in this, you foresee feudal society, then what people bestow, dunno

00:10:16 jurov: gotta sleep, bye

00:10:28 pete_dushenski: i think the issue here might be with the conception that power is binary and that its centres must contain all or none. it isn't. there are gradations. so even if bitcoin is very, very valuable, it won't be sufficient to constitute the entirety of the world. you can't eat bits.

00:10:33 pete_dushenski: jurov: cheers

00:12:50 jurov: irc you and mircea_popescu expect power to hang or stake certain people.. that's pretty close to "all" end

00:12:59 jurov: *iirc

00:13:11 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373142 << i'm sure alfie will loooove ^^^ ;/

00:13:11 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:31:38; ascii_shmoocon: and holyfuq are these talks snorefest

00:14:01 punkman: jurov, don't you wish a stake for certain people?

00:14:02 BingoBoingo: !up bad-dragon

00:14:20 jurov: not really

00:14:21 pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.

00:14:55 pete_dushenski: it's actually the minority of the world that thinks you can "talk it through" and "share fee-fees"

00:15:13 pete_dushenski: and the minority of history, for that matter

00:15:23 jurov: if civilised world ends and proves it was only an illusion, then perhaps i reconsider

00:16:15 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/2Y8ZQTk.jpg

00:16:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qe6net )

00:16:16 pete_dushenski: i'm content with that conclusion. now go get some sleep !

00:17:18 punkman: well you can put them in a jail cell if you prefer, but I ain't paying for it

00:18:12 pete_dushenski: there are fighters and there are lovers. jurov's the latter.

00:19:47 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373173 << you ever get past 40% finished on the re-write ?

00:19:47 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:41:15; mircea_popescu: sez so right in the merchant of venice!

00:23:38 punkman: http://www.startupbizhub.com/starting-steel-mini-mill.htm check out the 488 comments

00:23:40 assbot: Starting Steel Mini Mill ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpdVIR )

00:28:32 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373344 << haha omg that'd be epic. i bet "sharpie" would even donate a 10' long pen just for the occasion. tell them "it's for art" and you're golden.

00:28:32 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:50:08; mod6: to get the level of detail required for that, it'd probably need to be 50' high. all the better. :D

00:31:13 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQl0RhEPBJw

00:31:14 assbot: Dead Kennedys - Buzzbomb from Pasadena - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpeGBD )

00:38:08 punkman: http://i.imgur.com/Y2aaSdX.png unicodez

00:38:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpfaYx )

00:39:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052045 = 1.0149 BTC [+]

00:56:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6499 @ 0.00052212 = 3.3933 BTC [+] {3}

00:59:45 pete_dushenski: punkman: heh

01:03:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00052218 = 1.3577 BTC [+]

01:11:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373342 >> bwahahaha

01:11:32 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:49:24; mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski pretty neat ice scuptures. i'd like to see an ice sculpture of a guy with a sharpie in pooper.

01:12:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052218 = 1.9843 BTC [+]

01:17:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373410 << totally look into v. it's great.

01:17:24 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:23:44; guruvan: mod6: yah - I don't know anything about V - but I'll figur ethat out and get this in there

01:19:36 mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.

01:19:36 mircea_popescu: This is literally no harder to get consensus for than a hardforked block size increase. This is probably easier, in fact, since it impacts fewer people negatively."

01:20:08 mircea_popescu: actually i wouldn't go to war over keccak.

01:20:50 mircea_popescu: letting bitfury & friends eat 100mn in unrecoupable engineering costs would provide exactly the correct lesson as to what it's a good idea to say and when it's a good idea to shut the fuck up and toe the line.

01:22:03 mircea_popescu: "jcliff commented Jan 16, 2016

01:22:03 mircea_popescu: NACK. This renders hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment useless. It will leave a bad taste in the miners' mouth. I also think this is an unnecessary fix to a problem that won't exist in the long term. ASIC mining hardware will sooner or later hit fundamental physical limits and become commoditized. Decentralization of mining will naturally follow."

01:22:06 mircea_popescu: who is this imbecile again ?

01:23:41 BingoBoingo: I've been asking myself that a lot lately

01:26:04 BingoBoingo: All of the nobodies

01:26:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373499 >> yes it should.

01:26:33 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it

01:26:50 mircea_popescu: provided, of course, same sigils.

01:31:43 mircea_popescu: !up epscy

01:34:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373568 << it does, just, between monaco and paris, not between fucking mobile and las vegas.

01:34:17 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:10:05; jurov: yes, it does. but it does not come out of tap every 20km

01:35:25 BingoBoingo: Also the blue pogoplug is the worthless one for our cause, right?

01:35:50 BingoBoingo: Was just at walmart and saw a few for $10 a pop.

01:36:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373594 << dude you're on this whole "before i was around people never fucked" angle.

01:36:06 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:21:55; jurov: imagine in addition of unique components, having to orchestrate dedicated supplies of material

01:36:19 mircea_popescu: fucking roman empire got dates across the sea in time to start a war. wtf already,

01:36:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373604 << no. the mass market drives them to shittify their offerings.

01:36:46 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:23:54; jurov: they do use majority of stuff off the shelf from reliable suppliers, and these suppliers rely on stable overall volume in mass market

01:37:01 mircea_popescu: they're as unreliable as they fucking get.

01:37:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373606 << ironically enough stell mill has strange anti-economies of scale. romania had one of the largest in the world, at galati. it was bought by arcelor and downsized. they also bought and downsized the krivoy rog ones.

01:37:44 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:24:50; punkman: /me wonders how much a small steel mill costs

01:39:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373607 << it's the same money, but in fewer hands. think of it this way : currently, there's 10`000 "family units" in town X making "the decision" to buy cable. as a result... there's two shitty companies and a de facto monopoly. transform those families into slaves and servants. they no longer get their own house, but live in the house oftheir masters, at their disposals

01:39:07 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:25:19; jurov: well, say titanium mine used for specialized stuff runs out and new one has to be developed. who pays for this?

01:39:08 mircea_popescu: . now there's 200 masters, and 12 cable companies, and no fucking monopoly.

01:39:19 mircea_popescu: because the 200 are stronger than the 12 ; whereas the 10k are weaker than fucking cox cable.

01:39:47 mircea_popescu: and yes this means that julie slaveface doesn't get to elect who's gonna take her maidenhood. fuck her.

01:40:11 mircea_popescu: and yes this means some inept derp doesn't get to sit around and "save the world" with "his foundation". fuck gates, too.

01:41:33 mircea_popescu: but the ONLY difference is that instead of cox writing 10k 50 dollar bills for cable each month, a coupla hundred people sign off on cable bills worth 10k dollars each once a year. and the internet is twice as good.

01:42:12 mircea_popescu: so you got a 4x improvement in qualityt of life for the slaves&servants in question out of the very simple measure of halving the costs and doubling the quality ; and at the expense that julie nobody doesn't get to pretend on reddit and gates doesn't get to pretend in washpo anymore.

01:42:15 mircea_popescu: these are light costs to bear.

01:44:37 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but the ONLY difference is that instead of cox writing 10k 50 dollar bills for cable each month, a coupla hundred people sign off on cable bills worth 10k dollars each once a year. and the internet is twice as good. << Kinda why US municipalities with good internet have a maximum size.

01:44:52 mircea_popescu: quite.

01:45:14 mircea_popescu: and note that there wasn't any sort of run amok "medical profession", or "legal profession", or anything else back then. doctor fucking paid house calls.

01:45:25 mircea_popescu: except if you were poor and unconnected, but in that case - YOU BELONG IN THE SEWER.

01:45:41 BingoBoingo: If there aren't jsut a handful of families in town with the relative wallets to tell the cable co FU, can't have get fiber

01:45:44 mircea_popescu: otherwise, doctor came to your fucking house. like they still did when i was a child, and ironicallyt - for the exact same reason.

01:45:52 mircea_popescu: ro soviet socialism was very much a medieval arrangement.

01:45:57 mircea_popescu: jsut different nobility.

01:47:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373651 << size per se is irrelevant. the point is that the 10bn can't have franchise.

01:47:10 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:43:17; punkman: also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2015#1014808 and yes I'd rather live in 10billion than 10million world

01:47:24 mircea_popescu: for as long as they make as much difference as rats, they can also multiply as rats.

01:47:33 mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe they manage to spawn a hot chick.

01:48:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373655 << the thing here is that the age of unreliability is today, not 1700. as alf pointed out at some point - you couldn't sell ANY of your consumer junk you buy today to people living then. not your shitty shoes, not your shitty anything.

01:48:28 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:45:44; pete_dushenski: jurov: i can see it. and while i agree there would be trade-offs (less reliability, more difficulty find parts perhaps), i think that the benefits would more than compensate and that product designers would adapt themselves accordingly (eg. making repairs possible without specialised equipment and using more readily available parts)

01:48:39 mircea_popescu: heck, even in 1950 stuff was a lot more reliable than the shit that passes today.

01:49:20 BingoBoingo: Occassionally 2016 stuff is better than 2006 stuff.

01:49:53 mircea_popescu: sure.

01:50:36 BingoBoingo: Example: mass market walmart brand clock radio purchased today. Beats the hell out of finicky big name 2006 clock radio. Beautiful AM reception only 22 inches from UPS transformer

01:51:42 BingoBoingo: But neither would be capable of crushing as many skulls as 1950's equivalent

01:52:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373670 << this is deeply untrue. for instance : feudalism in germany was decentralized ; in france centralized. same exact fucking country.

01:52:34 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:51:43; jurov: feudalism in the past was decentralised only because of distances and communication problems

01:52:53 mircea_popescu: ideology matters a lot more than these things. the germans wanted to be free and the french wanted to party.

01:53:11 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373499 >> yes it should. << yup. the topological flow might be ever so slightly different when listed, but the resulting pressed tree must be exactly the same.

01:53:11 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it

01:53:19 mod6: mathematically even.

01:53:35 mircea_popescu: quite.

01:54:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373690 << i dun see the impediment.

01:54:21 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:00:02; jurov: to go back to original issue, how can multiple centers of power exist in bitcoin?

01:55:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373709 << wait, wut ?

01:55:12 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:12:50; jurov: irc you and mircea_popescu expect power to hang or stake certain people.. that's pretty close to "all" end

01:55:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373725 << a little.

01:55:59 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:19:47; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373173 << you ever get past 40% finished on the re-write ?

02:05:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373631 << possibly tank for 'buran' shuttle

02:05:19 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:32:21; pete_dushenski: in other nyooz, http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y2z3R_xAyz4/Vpm37QlC7EI/AAAAAAAAkNY/ZdErfw38yvs/s640/ra7MzGf.jpg

02:07:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373494 << i've actually thought about writing, for lulz, a vtron in... gnumake

02:07:05 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:50:57; ben_vulpes: mod6: eh it probably doesn't work anyways

02:07:07 mircea_popescu: insectworld.

02:07:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2414 @ 0.00052045 = 1.2564 BTC [-] {2}

02:07:25 asciilifeform: and my original (unpublished) attempt was in ... awk & sed

02:07:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373499 << very direly, importantly, yes

02:07:48 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it

02:08:18 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373505 << l0lwut

02:08:18 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:53:27; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372610 << now you sound like stan from the 21/comcast thread ;/ "hashing is hard and we'll never see xx% difficulty resets again. who would want go to the bother ?!"

02:08:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373510 << this, if true, is a serious condition and you ought post how/what

02:08:44 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:13; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it << mine was ever so slightly varient from alfs

02:09:10 asciilifeform: if 2 vtrons give variant output on same input, ~someone~ has catastrophically-broken system

02:09:17 asciilifeform: possibly both.

02:09:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373514 << i have a box right here

02:09:32 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:45; *: pete_dushenski assumes osx 10.6 discs would be hard to come by

02:09:39 asciilifeform: it's yours for the cost of postage.

02:09:55 asciilifeform: original box, too

02:10:21 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373510 << this, if true, is a serious condition and you ought post how/what << sure we can talk about this. we've actually discussed it a few times at least.

02:10:21 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:13; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it << mine was ever so slightly varient from alfs

02:10:32 asciilifeform: did we? i forget

02:10:36 asciilifeform: was it the lexical order thing?

02:10:59 mod6: from those discussions, I'm under the impression that the ordering of the flow doesn't exactly have to be the exact same, as long as the pressing is the exact same.

02:11:09 asciilifeform: aha the hashes either match, or they do not

02:11:14 asciilifeform: (in the latter case, the whole thing melts down)

02:11:19 mod6: right.

02:11:52 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373550 << mno, they were cardboard and in many cases cost less than the cars of the time

02:11:52 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:06:50; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372972 << in this world (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372966), driving a car would be more akin to flying on a plane in the 1920s. eg. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2699/4411312464_e0e3489c45_o.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/11356192895_6961403e9f_b.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2636/4131214531_e8206d265d_b.jpg

02:11:57 mod6: i'm not really talkinga bout the pressing. as i was saying to ben, i checked all of my pressings by final output hash & have automated tests that check & ensure this outcome is correct.

02:12:05 asciilifeform: this was, of course, ~before~ the usgization of flight

02:12:24 asciilifeform: today one is not permitted to fly so much as a mile without filling out forms in triplicate

02:12:29 asciilifeform: or at least the radio equivalent

02:12:35 mod6: the new, yet unreleased v99996 will check the resultant hashes of the files touched by a vpatch -- to add another layer to this.

02:12:36 asciilifeform: and $100k of schooling and licensing, etc

02:12:46 asciilifeform: mod6: very spiffy, looking forward to this

02:13:11 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373549 << snobol, the language of snobs !!11 (tm) (r) (my brother's aphorisms)

02:13:11 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:06:42; BingoBoingo: cobol, the language of bzns

02:13:59 BingoBoingo: bzns is to bsns as azn is to Nisshin Maru

02:14:02 guruvan: mod6: bitcoin docker image is up - just testing now - patch wasn't working for me, so it's manually applied

02:14:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373557 << disingenuous comparison, airplane needs no infrastructure other than 2 runways (and, if seaplane or heli, not them either)

02:14:04 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:07:49; pete_dushenski: ^berlin airport completed in 1927, when commercial air travel was far from accessible. and still, infrastructure was built ! whaddyaknow !

02:14:09 mod6: yup, me too -- code is done, pretty much tested thus far. but the changes to having .wot in the pwd instead of ~/ by default; i want to ensure that it works ok with trinque' makefiles before i publish.

02:14:47 mod6: <+guruvan> mod6: bitcoin docker image is up - just testing now - patch wasn't working for me, so it's manually applied << ah, you had it build from V?

02:15:15 guruvan: no - I'm not there yet - I'm just sitting down to figure out how to use V

02:15:23 mod6: ahh. ok, gotcha.

02:15:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373573 << this is lunacy. each of those machines exists because there IS a mass market for machine tools, the requisite raw materials, the skill set of the readily available assemblers, and in fact a large number of the parts per se

02:15:25 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:14:09; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372994 << this is readily disproven by the markets for tourbillons, cessnas, and ferraris. none of which "need" the mass market. so even if these manufacturers might sell some swag to the plebes and make a dime doing it, they arguably innovated more before they reduced themselves to part-time sheep herding..

02:15:31 asciilifeform: there was no ferrari in 1850.

02:15:34 guruvan: any prereqs i need to know - just latest perl?

02:15:35 asciilifeform: nor could have been.

02:16:16 mod6: yeah perl 5, and that should be it. if you want it to be able to utilize the graphing utility, you need to install Graph::Easy, but that is not a requirement or prereq to it running.

02:16:24 mod6: some pro-tips:

02:17:08 mod6: 1]: with version 99997 create (by hand) a ~/.wot directory and populate it with keys named as their irc-nick and .asc, like: mod6.asc or asciilifeform.asc

02:17:40 mod6: well, that's pretty much it. the 'init' command should take care of the rest.

02:17:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373590 << the led in that turn signal is same as in a toyota.

02:17:49 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:21:10; pete_dushenski: you better have a unique turn signal stalk in your 599 gtb. or else.

02:18:01 mod6: when you get there, if you hit any snags, just let me know.

02:18:02 asciilifeform: as is the cpu in engine comp.

02:18:10 guruvan: I will - thanks mod6

02:18:17 mod6: thank /you/!

02:19:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373617 << it is ~possible~ to nanofabricate pentium atom by atom, by hand. will you ever have one ? no. will sultan of brunei have one? also no - he could buy MAXINT whores instead

02:19:08 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:27:13; pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: hard to make a small steel mill ? yes. impossible ? no.

02:19:11 asciilifeform: and will.

02:19:21 guruvan: no trouble - I'm gonna play a little with V tonight

02:19:29 asciilifeform: not even queen victoria was willing to pay for what a ~completed~ difference engine cost.

02:19:51 asciilifeform: and it was much more of a realistic proposition than hand-made vlsi.

02:20:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373619 << aha. not even in motherfucking ussr. where 'zil' made not only limo for brezhnev, no expense spared, but... trucks

02:20:37 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:28:07; jurov: you can't have custom "special" "high performance" whole supply line from mine up to the product

02:20:43 asciilifeform: BECAUSE INDUSTRY

02:20:44 asciilifeform: srsly.

02:21:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373639 << jurov gets it.

02:21:49 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:36:07; jurov: and would be the computer even feasible when only anough vacuum tubes/xsistors will be developed only for top 15k to have radio receiver?

02:23:00 mircea_popescu: jurov "gets it" in that he flatters your favourite worldview, is all.

02:23:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd much like to be proven wrong... go, bring back symbolics co.

02:23:26 asciilifeform: the ultimate 'computer for k00l d00dz'

02:23:29 mircea_popescu: a) you don';t get to say what's the criteria for you being proven wrong

02:23:34 asciilifeform: were 15k even built?

02:23:41 mircea_popescu: b) symbolics was a nefarious piece of shit i'd burn with my own hands if it was still aroundm.

02:24:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and the other computer vendors at the time were angels ?

02:24:23 mircea_popescu: this makes no difference.

02:24:24 asciilifeform: but it is true, it was widely hated, even when small

02:24:29 asciilifeform: see for instance rms

02:24:32 mircea_popescu: hated also makes no difference.

02:24:36 mircea_popescu: it was outright evil. more so than microsoft.

02:24:43 asciilifeform: quite arguably so

02:24:50 mircea_popescu: that it fucking died a sad death almost excuses the fact microsoft didn't.

02:25:17 *: asciilifeform would like to read a mircea_popescu mega-piece on the death of smbx one day

02:25:36 asciilifeform: right now best we have was 'symbolics, the failure of heterogeneous engineering' (by some chick?)

02:25:39 mircea_popescu: because if the personification of justice sits there and says "only had one bullet, and ms were idiots - so i killed the dangerous morons", i can't protest.

02:26:19 asciilifeform: btw i'm not even sure it makes sense to compare the two - smbx was in an industry almost unrelated as, e.g., j. d. rockefeller's

02:26:28 asciilifeform: (they did not make personal comp, nor ever threaten to)

02:27:08 mircea_popescu: pfff.

02:27:11 mircea_popescu: they invented the apple store.

02:27:24 asciilifeform: wai wut ?!

02:28:04 mircea_popescu: the whole thing that company was - a giant apple store.

02:28:08 asciilifeform: wat?!

02:28:12 asciilifeform: how?

02:28:17 mircea_popescu: closed surce bs.

02:28:20 asciilifeform: mno

02:28:25 asciilifeform: whole motherfucking thing SHIPPED WITH SOURCE

02:28:30 asciilifeform: what on earth are you on about.

02:28:36 *: mircea_popescu goes back to the notes.

02:28:52 asciilifeform: i actually have the smbx source right here.

02:29:05 asciilifeform: on a legit, pressed cd

02:29:08 asciilifeform: circa early '90s.

02:29:12 mircea_popescu: "The largest criticisms of Symbolics in the article are that Symbolics believed AI would take off and that Symbolics mistakenly pushed its view that proprietary hardware was the way to go for AI."

02:29:16 BingoBoingo: But seriously. The blue pogos were the worthless ones right, or do I gotta go back to Walmart tonight?

02:29:37 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo iirc we wanted the red ones.

02:29:43 BingoBoingo: k

02:29:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they, along with lmi, texas instruments, racal norsk, and possibly a few others, sold dedicated lisp cpu. which made engineering sense at the time

02:29:49 asciilifeform: and actually still does

02:30:02 asciilifeform: if cat-picture-watchers were not the dominant market segment

02:30:04 mircea_popescu: yaya.

02:30:10 mircea_popescu: and the appstore makes "engineering sense"

02:30:31 asciilifeform: nothing to do with any of it

02:30:35 asciilifeform: go review the lit.

02:31:00 asciilifeform: smbx corp also did not burn rome or invade stalingrad.

02:31:19 asciilifeform: the true pioneers of 'apple store' model were... ibm

02:31:39 asciilifeform: who did not sell (yes) their machines, but ~rented~ time on EACH CPU to the 'owner', along with the soft

02:31:44 asciilifeform: from 1960s on.

02:32:00 mircea_popescu: i fail to see how symbolics was any better.

02:32:02 asciilifeform: thing came with N cpu, X mb of ram, etc. and you would RENT them by the hour.

02:32:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, for one thing, you could actually BUY the machine

02:32:44 asciilifeform: it was just a costly piece of industrial equipment, no trickery involved

02:32:47 mircea_popescu: right.

02:33:05 mircea_popescu: and if i wanted to upgrade it i had to buy from them, right ?

02:33:21 asciilifeform: and came with the soft, the source, and with the important detail that you could point at ANYTHING running and get its source IN REAL TIME

02:33:25 asciilifeform: and modify that bit

02:33:32 mircea_popescu: i dunno why you think this is an exculpatory bit.

02:33:36 mircea_popescu: it's the very damnable part.

02:33:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you wanted to upgrade a pdp you had to buy from dec, etc

02:33:45 asciilifeform: standardization of components at that time had touched only disks

02:33:47 mircea_popescu: yes but all those idiots never stood a chance

02:33:49 mircea_popescu: these guys - did.

02:33:56 mircea_popescu: which is what makes them the absolute worst scum.

02:34:06 asciilifeform: (smbx boxen used fujitsu 'eagle' drive like every other mini of the period)

02:34:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wut

02:34:22 asciilifeform: !s heroes hang while traitors triumph

02:34:23 assbot: 0 results for 'heroes hang while traitors triumph' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=heroes+hang+while+traitors+triumph

02:34:30 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu thought ~i~ was the sinner in re: ^

02:34:31 mircea_popescu: mno. these are no sort of heroes.

02:34:38 mircea_popescu: they're cockroaches. mice are extinct, because large.

02:34:44 mircea_popescu: cockroaches survive because just low profile enough.

02:34:57 asciilifeform: that is what survived, yes

02:34:59 asciilifeform: cockroaches.

02:35:04 asciilifeform: the idiot 1980s minis.

02:35:10 asciilifeform: *micros

02:35:17 mircea_popescu: that this particular brand of "just low profile enough" actually died for once is nothing short of miraculous.

02:35:26 mircea_popescu: god fucking help us with a symbolics entrenched in success.

02:35:57 asciilifeform: how would it meaningfully differ from your 'computers for the 15k, mud for the 15m' scenario ?

02:36:09 asciilifeform: just because smbx was an american firm and thereby satanic ?

02:36:13 mircea_popescu: you missed the number 12. go re-read that dicussion.

02:36:30 mircea_popescu: i want a single, competent it corp like i want an elk horn up my ass.

02:36:50 asciilifeform: there were not even 12 makers of rich folk cars in 1890.

02:37:03 mircea_popescu: yes, actually, there were. you don't recall their names, but there were.

02:37:13 mircea_popescu: and the important part here is exactly that.

02:37:20 asciilifeform: so why died ?

02:37:32 mircea_popescu: who, symbolix ? nothing short of good fortune.

02:37:36 asciilifeform: no, no, the cars

02:37:41 mircea_popescu: there's no reason they should have, statistically. that they did is a miracle.

02:37:54 mircea_popescu: oh. because taxes.

02:38:19 asciilifeform: tax was scarcely a thing at the time/place ?

02:39:26 mircea_popescu: the way most of the early industry was rolled up, was that the "chosen" schelling point got tax breaks.

02:39:58 asciilifeform: ah now this i recall.

02:40:00 asciilifeform: as in rail.

02:40:15 mircea_popescu: worked pretty much universally from the mid 1800s on

02:40:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373783 << aha, we had this in '80 su

02:40:48 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:45:44; mircea_popescu: otherwise, doctor came to your fucking house. like they still did when i was a child, and ironicallyt - for the exact same reason.

02:40:55 asciilifeform: it blew my mind that 'civilized' usa does not

02:42:02 mircea_popescu: "streamlining" and bla bla, "corporatization" etc.

02:42:18 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373790 << phun phakt: i bought a new (fiddybuck) pair of shoes a week before blasting off to conf3 in b-a. these shoes began to show visible 'asking for porridge' the week i came back. mostly in tatters now.

02:42:18 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373655 << the thing here is that the age of unreliability is today, not 1700. as alf pointed out at some point - you couldn't sell ANY of your consumer junk you buy today to people living then. not your shitty shoes, not your shitty anything.

02:42:31 mircea_popescu: also known as "fuck everything up, nobody'll figure it out anyway"

02:43:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was referencing that "i can throw them out for you" thing

02:43:07 asciilifeform: incidentally, one interesting fact perhaps unknown outside of usaschwitz is that one assumption baked into these 'shoes' is that owner DOES NOT WALK

02:43:13 asciilifeform: he drives. even to coffee across the street.

02:43:17 asciilifeform: like my colleagues

02:43:21 asciilifeform: (and the set before them)

02:43:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, it

02:44:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373792 << helped that plastic (esp. of the fine-detailed injection mold variety) was not yet a thing

02:44:02 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:39; mircea_popescu: heck, even in 1950 stuff was a lot more reliable than the shit that passes today.

02:44:17 asciilifeform: it absolutely ANNIHILATED longevity. witness, e.g., plastic bicycle derailleurs

02:44:23 asciilifeform: (caps the life of the machine at about 2y)

02:50:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373744 << hey, false.

02:50:42 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:19:36; mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.

02:50:45 asciilifeform: !s lifecoin

02:50:46 assbot: 6 results for 'lifecoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lifecoin

02:51:06 asciilifeform: for all the good it does.

02:52:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373716 << actually, living in a perplexing (to non-orcs) symbiotic vendetta balance with enemies is the common thing.

02:52:22 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:14:21; pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.

02:53:30 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373746 << did anybody ever suggest keccak ?!!! did i sleep through this?!

02:53:30 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:20:08; mircea_popescu: actually i wouldn't go to war over keccak.

02:54:13 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Luke suggested it to the ClassicCoin forkers

02:54:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373759 << aaaaactually you can solder the sata plug on !

02:54:20 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:35:25; BingoBoingo: Also the blue pogoplug is the worthless one for our cause, right?

02:54:22 asciilifeform: it has the holes.

02:54:28 asciilifeform: if you have the patience.

02:54:53 BingoBoingo: I don't have the patience for those savings

02:55:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00052045 = 2.9926 BTC [-] {2}

02:58:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373771 << how many gas companies were there in 1820 london ?

02:58:22 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:39:08; mircea_popescu: . now there's 200 masters, and 12 cable companies, and no fucking monopoly.

03:00:18 mircea_popescu: !up raedah

03:01:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one for a year, then fifty ?

03:01:58 mircea_popescu: "Likewise, there were only two gasworks in London in 1814, and by 1822, there were seven and by 1829, there were 200 companies."

03:02:51 asciilifeform: i'd like to find out how they handled digging, rights-of-way, and whether they shared what today folks call 'last mile'

03:03:01 asciilifeform: (prolly will have to hit the library at some point...)

03:03:03 mircea_popescu: for which purpose a library awaits.

03:03:06 asciilifeform: aha!

03:04:17 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373716 << actually, living in a perplexing (to non-orcs) symbiotic vendetta balance with enemies is the common thing. << no because jurov knows shit about the noncivilised world having taken wives out of their ranks and such.

03:04:17 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:14:21; pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.

03:05:08 asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_gas#/media/File:Drawing_the_retorts_at_the_Great_Gas_Establishment_Brick_Lane.png << spiffy pic

03:05:09 assbot: History of manufactured gas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1SVqFdg )

03:06:09 raedah: met someone yesterday who's family migrated from the Montana mountains back in the day because the neighboring families had a habbit of solving disputes by killing eachothers children.

03:10:47 mircea_popescu: could we start with a "who are you" thing ?

03:11:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2571 @ 0.00052088 = 1.3392 BTC [+]

03:13:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00052088 = 1.1459 BTC [+]

03:21:17 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373279 << incidentally THERE WAS NO THERMITE!!111 at the motherfucking talk. suit was 'symbolic!11'. i shit thee not.

03:21:17 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:07:47; mircea_popescu: no thermite present ?

03:21:20 asciilifeform: only films.

03:22:06 asciilifeform: but aside from this, it was ok, fella determined, through laborious trial & error, a recipe for a very reasonable ~thermate~ which cremated usb stick to ashes with 7g of powder.

03:22:12 asciilifeform: and a novel crucible design for this purpose.

03:22:33 asciilifeform: (man-portable)

03:23:08 BingoBoingo: Interesting. Would throw in for that kickstarter if scaled up to 3.5" drive

03:23:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: like any ~really good~ tech, it needs no kickstarter

03:23:33 asciilifeform: it just needs you and a local construction equipment shop.

03:23:39 BingoBoingo: Of course

03:23:50 BingoBoingo: Hence the irony

03:25:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373287 << i'd quite enjoy learning what part of that piece mircea_popescu disagreed with

03:25:29 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:11:59; mircea_popescu: http://yosefk.com/blog/do-you-really-want-to-be-making-this-much-money-when-youre-50.html << somewhat bizarre take on things.

03:25:29 raedah: hello. here i am known as raedah. ive been a dev for joinmarket for the past few months. i like sexual relations with women, resisting invalid authority, educating ignorance, and being in nature.

03:25:47 asciilifeform: raedah: where in nature ?

03:27:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the part where he's saying exactly " The power is traded for the fetish of power. That's not capitalism, it is madness, and apparently Davos and Randi think women especially will heart it." except he sounds like he means it.

03:27:28 mircea_popescu: so wait, i shouldn't fucking own things because "they canb bestolen" and instead be a good slave and own my two arms ?

03:27:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373346 << if you have a box with gcc5, just format the hdd and start over, sanely

03:27:38 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:50:51; mod6: checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: in `/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gdb-7.10.1/work/gdb-7.10.1':

03:27:42 mircea_popescu: imbecile with rotating lights.

03:28:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not ~you~, but ~normal person~

03:28:03 asciilifeform: without dirigible.

03:28:06 mircea_popescu: bullshit.

03:28:17 asciilifeform: i fully expect to be robbed of everything

03:28:19 raedah: asciilifeform, backpacking in US northwest forests is nice. refreshing, lots of streams for water, beautiful changing landscapes to show you different facets of what is possible.

03:28:24 asciilifeform: and to not be able to do a lick to stop it

03:30:16 mircea_popescu: did you just ignorantly substitute an ought for an is or was it actually deliberate ?

03:30:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372769 >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-10-2014#855658

03:30:22 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 18:20:12; mircea_popescu: http://www.secureworks.com/cyber-threat-intelligence/threats/bgp-hijacking-for-cryptocurrency-profit/ << somewhat old but i dun recall it being in the log.

03:30:22 assbot: Logged on 02-10-2014 20:53:10; assbot: BGP Hijacking for Cryptocurrency Profit | Dell SecureWorks

03:30:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wut

03:30:44 mircea_popescu: he is saying that you OUGHT NOT own capital.

03:31:08 mircea_popescu: this is a substantially different statement from your "i expect it won't work".

03:31:09 asciilifeform: he is saying, or so i read, 'if you are a typical small person you are defenseless and will be raped, so have a very small cunt with spikes'

03:31:17 mircea_popescu: not for one second.

03:31:26 asciilifeform: then i must be thick.

03:31:49 mircea_popescu: he is saying what orlov is saying, and what yarvin is saying, and what generally the castrated son of a stupid anglo whore is always fucking saying

03:31:55 mircea_popescu: and im geting well sick of hearing it.

03:32:47 mircea_popescu: whether you personally will or will not be able to defend your capital has no bearing on whether you OUGHT to accumulate capital.

03:32:56 mircea_popescu: zero. nada. zilch.

03:33:14 mircea_popescu: the pretense to the contrary is what fucking created, and what fucking maintains, the miserable situation under which you belabour.

03:33:24 asciilifeform: but is the choice between 'accumulate capital' and 'smoke dope' ? or is it about ~what kind~ of capital

03:33:25 mircea_popescu: or, perhaps more accurately, what feeds the swam in which you wallow.

03:33:34 mircea_popescu: there is NO KINDS OF CAPITAL!!1

03:33:59 mircea_popescu: "is the choice between being a priss or getting laid, or is the choice between what ~kind~ of getting laid ? maybe i'm getting laid with jesus!"

03:34:11 asciilifeform: gonna tell me that a sawmill is the same as knowing-how-to-remove-appendix ?

03:34:15 mircea_popescu: yeah, im sure you're alt-getting laid and christian rock rules.

03:34:43 mircea_popescu: "knowing how to" fill the fucking paperwork and ask for permission.

03:34:47 mircea_popescu: get the fuck outta here.

03:35:15 asciilifeform: but actually kreinin is getting one thing catastrophically wrong, it is entirely possible to get dekulakized ~out of one's profession~

03:35:19 asciilifeform: e.g., both of my parents were.

03:35:27 mircea_popescu: doh.

03:35:57 mircea_popescu: but see... he has the capital of knowing how to... uhhh... oh i know, misrepresent his vices as virtues!

03:36:02 asciilifeform: so with this dawning on me, i can't defend the rest of the piece, it sorta blows in pieces in the wind.

03:36:02 mircea_popescu: such capitool.

03:36:27 asciilifeform: sorta like that skinless chick

03:36:34 asciilifeform: from the cartoon mircea_popescu linked earlier this week

03:37:01 asciilifeform: the one in the skinning machine

03:42:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373434 << while this is a correct description, i would also like to add that a ~correct~ vtron is also defined as being SPECIFICALLY NOT THIS : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-01-2016#1370325

03:42:22 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:31:04; mod6: the idea of V is a versioning system based upon patches that include SHA512 hashes of the file before and after the given patch is applied -- and checks the given signatures of the wot entities who have signed off on the patch.

03:42:22 assbot: Logged on 14-01-2016 21:23:18; ascii_butugychag: https://mikegerwitz.com/papers/git-horror-story

03:42:55 asciilifeform: if i can't read it in (max) half hour and say WHAT EACH MOTHERFUCKING LINE DOES it is not a correct implementation !!

03:43:17 asciilifeform: and if i include ALL DEPENDENCIES it should take no more than a day to read.

03:43:33 asciilifeform: (which, of course, would mean that a correct vtron does not presently exist...)

03:46:06 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373654 << anybody ever read kornbluth's short story 'marching morons' ?

03:46:06 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:45:41; jurov: *shrug* i can understand, the world is overcrowded, it's tempting to dream of putting stupid people "to their place". whether that comes to pass, i doubt.

03:47:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373684 << iirc putin is giving out phreeeee land there (encumbered with must-build-house and no-sale-for-xx-years conditions, but still)

03:47:27 assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:56:52; pete_dushenski: i honestly have no idea how much autonomy vladivostok has.

03:49:33 BingoBoingo: !s keccak

03:49:34 assbot: 3 results for 'keccak' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=keccak

03:49:45 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1373746

03:49:45 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:20:08; mircea_popescu: actually i wouldn't go to war over keccak.

03:53:07 BingoBoingo: From mines: https://archive.is/CkspO "On the one hand he has done some good work with BitcoinJ, Lighthouse etc. Certainly his choice of bloom filter has had a net negative effect on the privacy of SPV users"

03:53:08 assbot: The Mike Hearn Show: Season Finale (and Bitcoin Classic: Series Premiere) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1SVuq2t )

03:54:33 thestringpuller: Isn't BitcoinJ the thing that lame android client used? That thing was buggy as hell and like 15 different distros of android caused the wallet to leak keys.

03:55:24 BingoBoingo: yeah

03:55:32 BingoBoingo: Created by Hearnia

03:56:05 thestringpuller: Hearnia's site is gettin ddosed it looks like.

03:56:11 thestringpuller: Can't even get to home page

03:56:26 thestringpuller: either that or he took it down as part of ragequit

03:59:31 BingoBoingo: !up jixei

03:59:51 BingoBoingo: Hello jixei what bring you around these parts?

04:01:03 jixei: Searching for intelligent life. My immediately surrounding company has been disappointing.

04:02:32 ben_vulpes: more new faces?

04:03:13 *: ben_vulpes at office, fixing fancy couch $bzprtnr bought a year ago

04:03:40 ben_vulpes: one of those interesting $50 now or $2500 in three week problems i can solve due to hilariously checkered background

04:05:21 BingoBoingo: jixei: I see, care to give us a little bit of your history?

04:07:42 mircea_popescu: !up jixei

04:08:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i thought you were at orifice, at first.

04:08:21 jixei: Not to be rude, but I think I'm just going to lurk. Thank you for your inspiration.

04:08:32 mircea_popescu: lurking's always the higher road.

04:11:47 jixei: I thought being prepared at any moment to stand up for what you believe in was the higher road. But the impasses have been many.

04:12:01 BingoBoingo: jixei: Rude is often welcome here. But lurking is fine too.

04:13:42 mod6: <+asciilifeform> if i can't read it in (max) half hour and say WHAT EACH MOTHERFUCKING LINE DOES it is not a correct implementation !! << any ideas on a correct implementation?

04:13:53 mod6: or suggested lang?

04:14:42 mircea_popescu: jixei well no, that's the narrower road.

04:14:49 mircea_popescu: many roads!

04:19:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2067 @ 0.0005235 = 1.0821 BTC [+]

04:24:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00052391 = 3.9031 BTC [+] {2}

04:26:39 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb

04:26:46 gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2547.2, vol: 98294.14320000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2547.2

04:26:52 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

04:27:01 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 382.54, vol: 23634.15493557 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.851, vol: 21044.74759 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 385.58, vol: 55879.97188189 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 6.30632189 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 387.879163, vol: 98285.26020000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 385.06, vol: 496.21416148 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 401.692543989, vol: 185.97494102 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

04:29:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2008 @ 0.00052493 = 1.0541 BTC [+] {3}

04:30:50 BingoBoingo: ;;more

04:30:50 gribble: average: 386.077839035

04:37:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00052605 = 2.3672 BTC [+] {4}

04:38:55 BingoBoingo: !up jixei

04:43:54 pete_dushenski: this peanut butter chocolate cheesecake is a bit disappointing. icing is too sweet and it's not "cheezy" enough. more like an ultra-rich, ultra-dense, slightly creamier cake than you'd otherwise expect. the most impressive thing about this cake was the sheer mass. the box must've been 20 lbs for a 10"er.

04:45:18 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373766 << unreliable and then tbtf. no fucking components supplier should be that goddam big

04:45:18 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:37:01; mircea_popescu: they're as unreliable as they fucking get.

04:45:28 pete_dushenski: and yet, here we are.

04:45:56 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373776 << sounds perfectly reasonable.

04:45:56 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:42:12; mircea_popescu: so you got a 4x improvement in qualityt of life for the slaves&servants in question out of the very simple measure of halving the costs and doubling the quality ; and at the expense that julie nobody doesn't get to pretend on reddit and gates doesn't get to pretend in washpo anymore.

04:47:01 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373790 << that's a point. i'm not actually sure wtf i was thinking

04:47:01 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373655 << the thing here is that the age of unreliability is today, not 1700. as alf pointed out at some point - you couldn't sell ANY of your consumer junk you buy today to people living then. not your shitty shoes, not your shitty anything.

04:47:03 pete_dushenski: !s nothing works

04:47:04 assbot: 60 results for 'nothing works' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nothing+works

04:47:55 danielpbarron: yes

04:48:08 danielpbarron: yes

04:48:35 danielpbarron: whoops, macro gone awry there heh

04:50:15 BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/wuPNsW.png

04:50:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRPbtN )

04:50:21 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373819 <---> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1131044

04:50:21 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:08:18; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373505 << l0lwut

04:50:21 assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:13:18; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: and what other player will catch up with this, do you suppose, and how ?

04:52:25 pete_dushenski: perhaps i read too much into that question, but the idea that one would need to specifically name future miners and their means and methods seemed (and seems) a bit silly to me. they, whoever they are, will find a way, because how not ?

04:53:14 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373825 << aha. so do i. one of the few pieces of useful relic software i have kicking about.

04:53:14 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:09:32; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373514 << i have a box right here

04:53:27 mod6: asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.

04:53:48 mod6: thanks in advance

04:54:44 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373837 << i guess i'm thinking more into the 30s then, and along the lines of the Sikorsky S-42, eg. http://cruiselinehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/PanAm_S40B_Sikorsky.jpeg

04:54:44 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:11:52; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373550 << mno, they were cardboard and in many cases cost less than the cars of the time

04:54:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRPnt9 )

04:55:54 pete_dushenski: these were evidently a first-class mode of transport, substantially more expensive to own and operate than a car, and not, to my eye, made of cardboard (though planes a decade earlier were, by and large)

04:59:57 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373841 << indeed. and we're imagining a world where cars ~at present~ function as airplanes ~once did~, merely to demonstrate the existence and advantages of specific types of economic organisation.

04:59:57 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:12:24; asciilifeform: today one is not permitted to fly so much as a mile without filling out forms in triplicate

05:00:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00052633 = 1.3421 BTC [+]

05:00:28 pete_dushenski: no one's claiming that flying and driving and living and breathing under usg don't blow dead bears.

05:01:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00052837 = 1.3209 BTC [+] {2}

05:01:47 BingoBoingo: Speaking of Ferrari from the mines: "For once, Christian Bale exits a body-changing role because it?d be too hard on his health/body http://bit.ly/1J7BKWA "

05:01:48 assbot: Christian Bale Exits Michael Mann’s ‘Enzo Ferrari,’ Balks At Weight Gain | Deadline ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRPEMJ )

05:02:34 ben_vulpes: > plum role

05:03:03 BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/mlH8jj.jpg

05:03:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRPIfo )

05:03:12 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373850 << ha. the only disingenuous comparison is between your experience with cars and roads and what's actually required for '15k' world. so 15k people drive international cxt's across the broken remnants of the americas. what of it ? YOU DON'T NEED INTERSTATES. wanna travel farther ? fly. or move.

05:03:12 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:14:04; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373557 << disingenuous comparison, airplane needs no infrastructure other than 2 runways (and, if seaplane or heli, not them either)

05:04:54 pete_dushenski: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2Lin1PyZ4jU/hqdefault.jpg << what part of this picture is begging for "infrastructure" ?

05:04:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRPRiX )

05:05:03 BingoBoingo: Not International cxt. International harvester scout.

05:05:16 pete_dushenski: ^or that

05:05:38 BingoBoingo: harvester scout for surfaces more hostile than the roads they were

05:07:56 ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here

05:07:57 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/c146a772e789a4bb

05:08:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2984 @ 0.00052865 = 1.5775 BTC [+] {2}

05:08:27 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.punindented.-1:fdd8264a25a95bfb8946055ada53326a3a54a99c6cf8594b6f5effcaae04d145

05:08:28 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for punindented with note: unwelcome here

05:09:05 ben_vulpes: punindented: you may continue this conversation here

05:09:14 ben_vulpes: !up punindented

05:09:42 punindented: !down punindented

05:10:14 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373858 << high-end coach then. no difference. and neither ferrari building nor coach building requires or required "the skills" of "the people". such nonsense.

05:10:14 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:15:31; asciilifeform: there was no ferrari in 1850.

05:10:14 ben_vulpes: so that's one of the four new faces

05:10:43 ben_vulpes: how quickly do the rest of you feel like burning your identities?

05:10:45 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373865 << also garbage. ferrari "needs" led lights like it needs a hybrid engine. wtf.

05:10:45 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:17:49; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373590 << the led in that turn signal is same as in a toyota.

05:10:51 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: RE: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2015#1325573 << Employer matches 401k up to ~6% of annual income pre-tax. The 401k program allows you to tke a 401k loan and pay yourself back. Best case scenario you pay the fiat back over X period (as long as you don't leave the job), or somehow there is some huge collapse and you just never pay it back.

05:11:13 thestringpuller: Worst case scenario*

05:11:19 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: So what was so irritating it had to happen in a pm conversation?

05:13:04 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: 'twas so banal as to be entirely unremarkable

05:13:14 ben_vulpes: should punindented come back, it must be on his knees.

05:13:30 BingoBoingo: I see

05:14:01 ben_vulpes: i don't extend the robert viragh s of the world nearly so much rope as i did before

05:14:17 ben_vulpes: once i was a child, i extended them as much rope as i thought they'd need to hang themselves

05:14:32 ben_vulpes: but now i am a man and i hang fools by my own hand

05:14:49 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373868 << cars were better pre-cpu for a reason you've already pointed out in the (lost) logs, viz. constant firmware crashes and general electrical gremlins living in cars of the last two decades. no cpu in the car anymore ? good riddance. maybe then i'd actually buy a newer model.

05:14:49 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:18:02; asciilifeform: as is the cpu in engine comp.

05:15:18 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: He linked me a dpaste. Solid decision.

05:18:18 ben_vulpes: where'd it cut off?

05:18:42 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373871 << except the sultan of brunei (as everyone knows?) has a thing for cars, not computers, and so has had dozens if not hundreds of custom-built automobiles, many of which he never drove and later left to rot in the sun, but that's his prerogative. but no, it didn't all go to glitzy whores.

05:18:42 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:19:08; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373617 << it is ~possible~ to nanofabricate pentium atom by atom, by hand. will you ever have one ? no. will sultan of brunei have one? also no - he could buy MAXINT whores instead

05:19:01 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: they /are/ barbarians.

05:19:40 *: pete_dushenski doesn't know. hasn't been to brunei.

05:19:42 ben_vulpes: adherence to the modernist forms notwithstanding.

05:19:57 ben_vulpes: buy cars and not computers. have no representation in the wot.

05:20:37 pete_dushenski: i'm tempted to call that more 'traditionalist'

05:21:03 pete_dushenski: which would've worked fine in any of the last 20 centuries, unfortunately just not this one

05:21:50 pete_dushenski: even then, it'll work to a perfectly adequate extent. i'm not sure anyone will be worse off for brunei's adherence to last century's mores.

05:24:42 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373877 << these were entirely unrelated parts of the zil factory afaik. only reason "zil" was chosen was that b wanted to shine a positive light on the company, like bahamas does with cadillac. not like it matters whether 'beast' shares parts with gmc trucks. hell it probably wouldn't break down in the middle of diplomatic missions if it were a custom job !

05:24:42 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:20:37; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373619 << aha. not even in motherfucking ussr. where 'zil' made not only limo for brezhnev, no expense spared, but... trucks

05:26:42 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> where'd it cut off? << before I anticipate he got really verbose

05:33:36 thestringpuller: jstolfi's response to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1373746 << https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41agss/calling_on_the_core_devs_to_change_their_pow/

05:55:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00052343 = 1.3086 BTC [-] {3}

05:58:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4070 @ 0.00052109 = 2.1208 BTC [-]

05:59:27 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373964 << there were dozens of ~electric~ carmakers at the turn of the 20th century, nevermind the hundreds of gas-powered ones.

05:59:27 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:36:50; asciilifeform: there were not even 12 makers of rich folk cars in 1890.

05:59:42 pete_dushenski: in related travell nyooz, http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/fowl-therapy-airline-lets-passenger-bring-turkey-on-flight-as-emotional-support-animal&pubdate=2016-01-16

05:59:43 assbot: Fowl therapy: Airline lets passenger bring turkey on flight as ‘emotional support animal’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1SVG4um )

06:01:16 pete_dushenski: http://imgur.com/TeE8qfz http://i.imgur.com/7hMsbW1.jpg << because in the race to the bottom, it's zero one infinity. next you'll have down syndromers flying transatlantic routes.

06:01:16 assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1SVGd0J )

06:01:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SVGelc )

06:08:05 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374083 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-01-2016#1363788

06:08:05 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 03:36:34; asciilifeform: from the cartoon mircea_popescu linked earlier this week

06:08:05 assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 01:59:10; mircea_popescu: here's a dulap for asciilifeform too : http://45.media.tumblr.com/c52368caad131df408f02dd051955a7a/tumblr_nwkayuimwU1uqlzh6o1_1280.gif

06:21:00 phf: so running linux on macbook pro is all kinds of fun. there's about 50 files exposed in /sys and /proc that control intimate details of the laptop's operation.

06:21:16 phf: like for example controls over the ability to not overheat like crazy and drain battery in half hour.

06:23:09 phf: but you're not supposed to touch those files directly, oh no, they are undocumented and what are you some kind of terrorist. instead there's 20 incompatible power/suspend/battery/sensor/fans/specialkeys control daemons in various states of disarray. "oh, if your fans don't kick in you want termald, or try batterd, which works with new lzmi acpi functions."

06:26:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8661 @ 0.00052053 = 4.5083 BTC [-] {3}

06:27:20 phf: who would've thought that linux ecosystem could've gotten worse since last time i checked..

06:27:43 BingoBoingo: seriously

06:36:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00052045 = 1.3532 BTC [-]

06:50:59 BingoBoingo: Oh deedbot down: http://qntra.net/2016/01/fiat-feeling-pain-below-the-corn-belt/

06:50:59 assbot: Fiat Feeling Pain Below The Corn Belt | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RtkMEG )

07:00:53 ben_vulpes: phf: funny you should mention this

07:01:07 ben_vulpes: what kind of linux, what kind of mbp?

07:02:37 ben_vulpes: i'm playing openbsd quest most recently, as openbsd didn't do drivers or reference implementation compilation

07:02:40 ben_vulpes: er

07:02:51 ben_vulpes: i'm playing *gentoo quest* most recently...

07:03:05 ben_vulpes: sorry, $client left many bottles of homemade kahlua at the office

07:03:57 BingoBoingo: lol

07:04:44 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: the fiat involvement is not clear

07:04:54 ben_vulpes: oh wait this is fiat currency not fiat cars

07:04:58 BingoBoingo: Yeah

07:05:08 ben_vulpes: sorry, the relentless carblogger threads have me twisted

07:05:12 BingoBoingo: lol

07:05:16 ben_vulpes: srsly not the kahlua

07:05:55 BingoBoingo: These things happen

07:09:24 phf: ben_vulpes: macbookpro early 2011 (i believe it's 8,2)

07:10:23 phf: my standard machine, basically

07:11:42 phf: i tried openbsd on it, but it wouldn't even boot. i'm pretty sure it's an issue with integrated/discrete video cards

07:13:39 phf: i'm running slackware on it :>

07:14:16 ben_vulpes: great vintage

07:14:38 ben_vulpes: mine did obsd just fine, didn't want to accelerate videocards though

07:15:28 phf: accelerate? what you trying to watch cat videos? i've only gotten as far as having emacs running on console

07:15:45 ben_vulpes: i had emacs in x11

07:15:57 BingoBoingo: A lol re:Classicstroturfing https://twitter.com/AaronvanW/status/688510968050102272 "Email from F2Pool (24% of hash power): "We did not say we 'support' Bitcoin Classic. We used the word 'welcome' to be exact." (More to come)"

07:16:13 ben_vulpes: exwm and the reference implementation are ~90% of my current compute goals

07:17:16 BingoBoingo: f2pool's bitcointalk post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700411.msg13571787#msg13571787

07:17:18 assbot: 「魚池」BTC:180 Phash/s - LTC:550 Ghash/s - New Server in U.S. stratum-us.f2pool.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1RtmnKV )

07:17:59 BingoBoingo: "We do not believe the concept of fee market"

07:18:20 phf: i'm planning on staying in console until i figure out how to make base hardware behave

07:19:37 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?

07:20:56 BingoBoingo: !up snuffy

07:22:07 BingoBoingo: Hello snuffy, care to introduce yourself?

07:22:44 snuffy: just lurking...

07:23:11 BingoBoingo: k

07:23:49 BingoBoingo: What brings you around to these parts?

07:30:07 ben_vulpes: > fee market

07:44:41 BingoBoingo: feet market

07:45:18 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/01/lightning-network-code-finally-public/

07:45:19 assbot: Lightning Network Code Finally Public | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1n42rRQ )

07:56:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00052068 = 5.4151 BTC [-] {2}

08:11:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052045 = 2.3941 BTC [-]

08:28:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052572 = 1.7874 BTC [+] {2}

08:46:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00052213 = 1.7491 BTC [-]

09:04:20 BingoBoingo: !up punindented

09:05:22 ben_vulpes: meet farket

09:08:35 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3663

09:08:36 assbot: JL: ‘Be An Asshole’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q6L5xi )

09:14:51 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657

09:14:52 assbot: JL: ‘On The War Path’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q6LFep )

09:16:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.0005205 = 1.4834 BTC [-]

09:25:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00052468 = 3.0956 BTC [+] {2}

09:32:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2559 @ 0.00052062 = 1.3323 BTC [-] {3}

09:55:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00052045 = 2.7324 BTC [-]

10:15:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052577 = 1.9979 BTC [+] {5}

10:20:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00052058 = 3.2016 BTC [-] {4}

10:36:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052487 = 1.0235 BTC [+]

10:40:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3197 @ 0.00052599 = 1.6816 BTC [+] {2}

10:48:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3547 @ 0.00052852 = 1.8747 BTC [+]

10:53:03 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373724 << you forgot creators

10:53:03 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:18:12; pete_dushenski: there are fighters and there are lovers. jurov's the latter.

11:08:22 thestringpuller: Bitcoin Classic doesn't even beat around the bush about it being socialist: "Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort."

11:10:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6455 @ 0.00052881 = 3.4135 BTC [+] {3}

11:15:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052931 = 2.4348 BTC [+] {6}

11:23:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00053037 = 1.485 BTC [+]

11:29:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053037 = 2.4927 BTC [+]

11:33:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00052645 = 2.7902 BTC [-] {2}

11:41:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2779 @ 0.00052645 = 1.463 BTC [-]

11:43:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5976 @ 0.00052894 = 3.1609 BTC [+] {2}

11:45:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00052645 = 1.6583 BTC [-] {2}

11:58:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2883 @ 0.00052497 = 1.5135 BTC [-] {4}

11:59:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2078 @ 0.00052045 = 1.0815 BTC [-]

12:54:00 mircea_popescu: !up unkster

12:59:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.0005208 = 2.9165 BTC [+]

13:02:50 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374268 <<< for interview purposes?

13:02:50 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?

13:07:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052797 = 2.5343 BTC [+] {2}

13:23:32 mircea_popescu: !up p15x

13:27:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00052045 = 1.7956 BTC [-]

13:35:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00052124 = 1.9286 BTC [+]

13:53:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00052045 = 2.8104 BTC [-]

14:18:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00052124 = 1.3292 BTC [+]

14:24:10 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373744 isn't scrypt memory-hard?

14:24:10 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:19:36; mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.

14:24:44 mircea_popescu: technically. there isn't really a good solution to the problem in my estimation either.

14:24:56 mircea_popescu: i'm not particularly convinced this would solve anything, also.

14:28:36 punkman: memory-hard or not, if you change the PoW you obsolete existing hardware. Problem is TSMC will still have more hardware than you, whatever you decide to use next.

14:48:00 adlai: fwiw bramc (of bittorrent fame) is working on space-hard PoW which he hasn't yet decided whether to nameclash with PoC (concept vs capacity) or PoS (shit vs space)

14:48:59 adlai: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/search/?q=proof+of+storage

14:49:00 assbot: IRC Logs for #bitcoin-wizards | BotBot.me [o__o] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pzs57Q )

14:49:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00052248 = 3.0304 BTC [+] {5}

14:55:19 mircea_popescu: ;;ud TSMC

14:55:19 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TSMC | ... Serbian · Spanish · Swedish · Thai · Turkish · Ukrainian · Vietnamese · Help translate! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. There aren't any definitions for TSMC yet. Can you define it?

14:55:28 mircea_popescu: remind me, what was this ?

15:04:57 punkman: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited

15:06:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3356 @ 0.00052045 = 1.7466 BTC [-] {2}

15:13:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4416 @ 0.00052045 = 2.2983 BTC [-]

15:17:20 mircea_popescu: ah.

15:17:29 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, stranding the miners is an important reserve power.

15:17:44 mircea_popescu: schmucks better ponder it well before they go running their mouth about "supporting" this or that.

15:51:53 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: so Luke-Jr isn't all bad?

15:52:08 mircea_popescu: nobody is ALL bad.

15:52:29 thestringpuller: i never took you for an optimist

15:54:42 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_shmoocon

15:54:43 thestringpuller: punkman: direct access to chips (wholesale and PCB fab) cheapens mining by 400%

15:54:48 mircea_popescu: you still shmooing ?

15:55:00 thestringpuller: or at least the initial investment

15:55:08 ascii_shmoocon: reporting live from snorefest!!!1111

15:55:18 thestringpuller: did you got the big data hacking panel?

15:55:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon you know the b,tmsr~ emissary makes a report that sounds a lot like the nsa emissary's.

15:55:55 mircea_popescu: "these people'd be a lot more interested if they tried cooking naked."

15:56:27 ascii_shmoocon: aha it was surprisingly nonlame. turns out that opencv is a piece-of-shitte, you can evolve bitmaps that crash it.

15:56:34 ascii_shmoocon: dragonfly.

15:56:47 mircea_popescu: heh.

15:57:35 ascii_shmoocon: lol i think every third bloke in the chairs is nsa emissary

15:57:48 ascii_shmoocon: poor bastards

15:59:14 ascii_shmoocon: and just now there was 'state malware' talk given by a... political 'scientist'

15:59:34 ascii_shmoocon: managed to say absolutely nothing.

16:00:02 mircea_popescu: you're enjoying yourself aren't you.

16:00:52 ascii_shmoocon: the crackpot group theory cipher thing yesterday was lulzy

16:01:34 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: LOL so you can spoof facial recognition based on OpenCV. (Begins to wonder how much facial spookware in airports is based on OpenCV stack).

16:01:47 ascii_shmoocon: and i now have what is quite likely a lifetime supply of keychain

16:02:25 ascii_shmoocon: thestringpull: not spoof - crash

16:02:37 thestringpuller: HAHA! That's even better.

16:04:11 ascii_shmoocon: next up, some woman re: mesh nets

16:04:22 mircea_popescu: as in stockings ?

16:04:44 ascii_shmoocon: the other sort

16:05:00 mircea_popescu: for hair ?!

16:05:07 mircea_popescu: i thought those went out of fashion.

16:05:58 ascii_shmoocon: nm, 'software defined networks ', buzzword hell

16:06:25 thestringpuller: Peter Todd on why soft forks are awesome! >> https://petertodd.org/2016/soft-forks-are-safer-than-hard-forks

16:06:47 thestringpuller: "An interesting non-technical objection is that because nodes and miners who haven’t adopted the soft fork end up in the main chain anyway, this is a case of a majority undemocratically forcing a minority to adopt new policies. Of course, it’s your choice to use a protocol with this feature! Satoshi could have just as easily written Bitcoin to treat unknown block versions as invalid, but choose not too." << Uh huh.

16:06:54 mircea_popescu: "fucking a ten dollar hooker in the cunt is safer than fucking her in the ass".

16:07:14 thestringpuller: Seems like that PoW-change nuke is a good nuke to have.

16:08:13 ascii_shmoocon: who has it though??

16:08:59 ascii_shmoocon: say mp or other decides to nuke. makes own alt? opens fiat exchanges???

16:09:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5823 @ 0.00052769 = 3.0727 BTC [+] {3}

16:09:25 ascii_shmoocon: am i thick?

16:11:53 thestringpuller: nuclear war always has fallout. the flexing of muscles is sometimes enough to get enemy to see reason.

16:12:45 ascii_shmoocon: that's not the issue, but the ~how??~

16:13:55 thestringpuller: i thought ideally it would only fork the miners off the network. thus in ideal world "nothing really changes"

16:14:19 thestringpuller: except for fact all water is irradiated at that point.

16:15:12 ascii_shmoocon: the other thing is that alt with novel pov is a giftwrapped offering to the fella with the largest stash of ready fpga fabric. which is...

16:15:19 ascii_shmoocon: ft meade

16:16:21 ascii_shmoocon: in other nyoooz, somebody is already... snoring

16:17:57 mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon> say mp or other decides to nuke. makes own alt? opens fiat exchanges??? << "we da people"

16:18:35 ascii_shmoocon: I'm genuinely curious, how this'd work

16:19:03 mircea_popescu: so's everyone in the "we wanna capture bitcoin" camp.,

16:19:09 ascii_shmoocon: ftr I despise miners

16:19:53 ascii_shmoocon: their existence is a bug.

16:20:06 ascii_shmoocon: esp. pools.

16:20:11 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:21:25 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: this wouldn't have been a problem if friedcat hadn't spit in MPEx's face.

16:21:46 mircea_popescu: yes it would have been. whatever the fuck happens, problems are permanent part of phenomenology.

16:21:53 ascii_shmoocon: which this

16:22:19 mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon that broasca despises racul. si o stiuca.

16:22:38 ascii_shmoocon: that ain't going anywhere anytime

16:22:48 mircea_popescu: quite.

16:24:44 thestringpuller: a lot of the problem seems to be due to blatant cartelization

16:25:31 thestringpuller: and the cartel is run as a shady Triad-wannabe type of operation. Insane markups on retail, shitty products, extremely late delivery.

16:25:34 thestringpuller: !up ascii_shmoocon

16:26:02 thestringpuller: only those in the cartel are "somewhat profitable".

16:26:15 ascii_shmoocon: i said from day 1, it makes no sense to ~sell- miners.

16:26:28 mircea_popescu: depends to whom,.

16:26:39 mircea_popescu: it makes no sense to sell anything useful to the horde of reddidiots.

16:26:50 ascii_shmoocon: certainly not ones that work.

16:27:05 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: i think the problem stretches to issue with building F-15 on own. re: thread on USG cartel of fabrication.

16:27:14 ascii_shmoocon: duds, to avaricious idiots? yes

16:27:37 thestringpuller: instead of USG this time, it's d00ds who weren't good enough to be in the triads.

16:28:22 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: and this is why KNC miner has huge classaction suit outstanding.

16:28:52 ascii_shmoocon: fat lotta good it will do

16:29:20 thestringpuller: none at all, but does serve as proof of the existence of said matter.

16:31:01 ascii_shmoocon: also making jets is trivial compared to ic fab.

16:32:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00052168 = 2.9736 BTC [-] {2}

16:32:38 ascii_shmoocon: aaaand mining does not forgive 2nd-best 'z80 is enough for soviet motherland'-ism.

16:33:23 thestringpuller: so lets annex taiwan?

16:33:44 ascii_shmoocon: for so long as somebody can cream you in production chain, he owns you

16:34:23 mircea_popescu: you drastically overvalue the liberty and importance of miners.

16:35:10 ascii_shmoocon: didja invent a means of dispensing with miners? I'm all ears

16:44:07 ascii_shmoocon: i can think of exactly one: an 'mp-hawala', where mo transacts with the other 17 or so olympians, indeed requires no minerz...

16:44:22 ascii_shmoocon: *mp transacts

16:45:19 mircea_popescu: eh it's all there, no invention needed.

16:45:23 jurov: imo if mining can't be avoided, ideal mining algorithm would be one that changes often, unpredictably and substantially

16:45:38 ascii_shmoocon: and I admit that I wondered since showing up, for what does he need btc, can hawala all day

16:46:23 mircea_popescu: jurov think about it : IF that were the case, then alf's fears about "whoever owns the production owns you" would be grounded.

16:47:19 jurov: if what were the case?

16:47:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon you know it's a common wonderment on the part of the okcupid sluts, too, "why would one such of you need for okcupid". what need.

16:47:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3990 @ 0.00052894 = 2.1105 BTC [+] {2}

16:48:01 mircea_popescu: jurov what you just described, my punishment algorithm implemented to mining

16:48:11 ascii_shmoocon: also random difficulty has a strong chance of putting you on pluto with no return ticket

16:49:37 jurov: yes, depends on mathematic discovery of class of functions that fulfills criteria, obv can't just decide workfunction willy nilly

16:50:19 ascii_shmoocon: no it is inherently 'fried ice'

16:50:45 ascii_shmoocon: 'varies but not enough to perma-hose diff'

16:50:50 mircea_popescu: haha wait, wait, there's a "class of functions" in the sky that'll come and deliver you ?

16:51:29 ascii_shmoocon: and that. go, invent...

16:52:30 mircea_popescu: there's this ancient romanian rhyme, "caligula imperator si-a facut calul senator. petru groza, mai sinistru, si-a facut boul ministru". i can't help but think of it when would-be pygmalions are not content to merely cut themselves a fucktoy/mate out of stone

16:52:42 mircea_popescu: they go for the whole nine years, they're gonna make a clay divinity!

16:53:05 jurov: well, at least i can name the problem to ask perelman "want to generate infinite count asymetric functions, and they will each have distinct algorithm"

16:53:13 jurov: *count of

16:53:35 mircea_popescu: why waste the asking.

16:53:42 mircea_popescu: ask him to absolve you of von neumann sin.

16:53:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00052932 = 9.369 BTC [+] {7}

16:54:15 jurov: yeaaa...and symbolics sin and ...

16:54:29 jurov: babbage and turing and...

16:54:36 mircea_popescu: i meant something specific.

16:55:38 mircea_popescu: !s "living, of course, in a state of sin"

16:55:39 assbot: 0 results for '"living, of course, in a state of sin"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22living%2C+of+course%2C+in+a+state+of+sin%22

16:55:48 ascii_shmoocon: perelman does not absolve. only - damns.

16:55:48 mircea_popescu: heh. WHAT USE ARE YOU, O LOGS!

16:56:03 mircea_popescu: lol.

16:56:05 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_shmoocon

16:56:07 thestringpuller: asc

16:56:19 ascii_shmoocon: !s state of sin

16:56:20 assbot: 13 results for 'state of sin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=state+of+sin

16:56:29 jurov: von neumann or not, we're still bound to turing-like machines that need to be fed algorithms. and maybe the algorithms can be mutated enough.

16:56:48 jurov: and maybe not

16:57:12 mircea_popescu: we also only hold hammers, and maybe the hits can be modulated enough! shall we try or shall we not.

16:57:17 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: is it still problem is "sane" person owns production?

16:57:20 ascii_shmoocon: you know this reminds me of amateur crypto

16:57:56 ascii_shmoocon: 'hey, this Algorithm confyoozd -me-, it is good...'

16:58:04 jurov: kek

16:59:24 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: cause right now it seems production is held by incompetent cartel, which is why I said it'd be less of problem if friedcat hadn't spit in MPEx's face.

16:59:46 jurov: for me the mining problem stems from clinging to precious few cryptohash functions, which are all amateur (not proven) anyway

17:00:10 jurov: i want infinite count of proven assymetric functions!!!!

17:00:12 ascii_shmoocon: pray to satan against -competent- one

17:00:24 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller true incompetence has a major advantage - it disperses.

17:00:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon oh, ~here~ you see the danger do you ? :D

17:00:47 thestringpuller: jurov: all crypto functions will inevitably become obsolete no? thus at some point it will necesarily change.

17:00:53 mircea_popescu: jurov that's not necessarily a bad thing to want, on its own.

17:01:10 thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: competent one does not have === anti-christ

17:01:24 mircea_popescu: very valid place to invest a life in quite respectable research.

17:01:55 ascii_shmoocon: sorta what i do

17:03:11 jurov: !up DerpUnion

17:05:27 DerpUnion: are there any plans on attking any xchgs/processors who switch to classic

17:06:06 DerpUnion: and by attking, i dun mean ddos, i mean wiping them clean off their bitcoins

17:07:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2334 @ 0.00052168 = 1.2176 BTC [-] {2}

17:08:14 mircea_popescu: !down DerpUnion

17:10:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3142 @ 0.00053038 = 1.6665 BTC [+] {2}

17:12:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374174 << the part where they're all siliconed.

17:12:12 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 05:04:54; pete_dushenski: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2Lin1PyZ4jU/hqdefault.jpg << what part of this picture is begging for "infrastructure" ?

17:16:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2479 @ 0.00052168 = 1.2932 BTC [-] {2}

17:17:51 mircea_popescu: "Well BitcoinClassic -- that, according to the Core devs, is a hostile fork -- already has the support of 70% of the miners.

17:17:51 mircea_popescu: The price did drop a little, but almost certainly because of Mike's pessimistic statements, not because of that "attack". So the first line of defense failed: it looks like the miners will not be "punished" financially for lifting the size limit -- quite the opposite."

17:17:53 mircea_popescu: lmao.

17:18:03 mircea_popescu: yeah, TOTALLY that's what happened.

17:18:58 mircea_popescu: did this guy ever do anything other than drive around looking for overturned garbage bins to sit in front of and selfie himself while explaining his theories about how moonrays cause littering and how the owls are to blame for moonrays ?

17:26:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374262 <<< the link to "we just read some words mp said" being lost to "everyone", of course.

17:26:26 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:15:57; BingoBoingo: A lol re:Classicstroturfing https://twitter.com/AaronvanW/status/688510968050102272 "Email from F2Pool (24% of hash power): "We did not say we 'support' Bitcoin Classic. We used the word 'welcome' to be exact." (More to come)"

17:26:32 mircea_popescu: just more things that never occurred.

17:30:45 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374268 << done

17:30:45 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?

17:33:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374299 << there's nothing wrong with that, let them have it, and enjoy its fruits. there's a reason the correct stance is to cater to the comfort of the priviledged and [not incidentally, but deliberatelty and by design] step on the faces of the worthless. but nobody's reequired to accept this as some sort of gospel - let them walk the desert of eating rocks and shitting

17:33:30 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 11:08:22; thestringpuller: Bitcoin Classic doesn't even beat around the bush about it being socialist: "Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort."

17:33:30 mircea_popescu: prunes until their gullet's deeply satisfied.

17:35:18 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, in their case it's empty blathering. the words they say are the result of what they think would work best as a thing to say, not anything deeper than that. they'd say they believe in cinderella fucking papa bear while riding on a golden broomstick if that's what the focus groups preferred ot hear.

17:43:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role here is strictly t

17:43:02 assbot: JL: ‘On The War Path’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q6LFep )

17:43:02 mircea_popescu: o protect MY old uncle and cuff the fucking street scum. that's how you may also, and to a lesser degree, take care of yours. that and that only.

17:43:21 mircea_popescu: but once you start with "Democratic" and bla bla - guess what. your crazy old uncle is first to be burned at the stake. because you are the servant, and that's how it goes.

17:44:23 mircea_popescu: "cross the imaginary, retrospectively hallucinated '''line'''" bs is worth about as much as the piss it carries.

17:46:40 thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/0219CV4.txt

17:46:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:01:34 shinohai: ;;blocks

18:01:34 gribble: 393721

18:01:46 shinohai: < 1k to go \o/

18:01:47 mircea_popescu: trinque o look de bot is gone ?

18:08:58 jurov: !up ascii_rear

18:10:48 ascii_rear: sooo the talk re: power grid in usa using unciphered rf for control was mildly amusing

18:11:11 mircea_popescu: !up wangchun

18:11:11 ascii_rear: but on the whole, mega-snorecon

18:11:27 mircea_popescu: ascii_rear isn't that straight out of the tinfoilhat annals ?

18:11:29 ascii_rear: c---, unrecommend

18:11:36 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374268 << To get a gpg key registered, and hopefully an interview. Dunno how it would go over because all of his writing I've seen in English seems a bit combative.

18:11:36 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?

18:11:55 ascii_rear: it is 30 yr sop

18:12:29 ascii_rear: ancient modemz, electromechanical switch, etc

18:12:55 ascii_rear: mega-unsurpise.

18:13:13 ascii_rear: unsurprise

18:16:32 ascii_rear: but... but.. i got a.. can opener.

18:16:42 trinque: mircea_popescu: thanks. his escape from AWS is in the works.

18:16:59 mircea_popescu: ascii_rear wait wut ?

18:17:05 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374510 <<< btctalk message sent, awaiting reply.

18:17:05 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 18:11:36; BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374268 << To get a gpg key registered, and hopefully an interview. Dunno how it would go over because all of his writing I've seen in English seems a bit combative.

18:17:05 trinque: I've also rewritten the IRC bot portion, and the new thing knows how to reclaim nick, and generally speaking doesn't suck.

18:17:09 trinque: just gotta get the services rewritten

18:17:10 ascii_rear: the company, however, i'd pass on

18:17:42 ascii_rear: mircea_popescu: keychain

18:17:57 mircea_popescu: lol. k.

18:18:08 mircea_popescu: trinque cool beans.

18:25:55 jurov: lol i read alf got a car opener

18:26:41 jurov: which would be shocking given his strict-whitehat proclivities

18:27:00 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Actually if you just want to interview and so a qntra piece that would be swell

18:27:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2950 @ 0.00052731 = 1.5556 BTC [-]

18:28:32 BingoBoingo: or you too danielpbarron

18:28:37 mircea_popescu: for the record fooplot.com actually spits out svg's! pretty cool.

18:28:42 BingoBoingo: WHo ever he responds to

18:34:03 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374493 << In Lafondtology 'betters' are a known quantity as well. They attack down so avoid or appease.

18:34:03 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 17:43:00; mircea_popescu: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role

18:34:50 shinohai: BingoBoingo: if he writes back sure

18:35:19 shinohai: wait

18:35:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00052573 = 3.0755 BTC [-] {4}

18:35:40 shinohai: "Please send your questions to admin at f2pool dot com. Thanks." macbook-air

18:38:48 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Cool. It looks like you have a lead for that F2pool interview you're going to submit to Qntra.

18:39:08 shinohai: > . <

18:39:26 danielpbarron: heh, I got no reply

18:39:32 shinohai: They seem to be going Classic no?

18:41:43 BingoBoingo: shinohai: No, they 'welcomed' classic which is being classtroturfed into support

18:41:46 BingoBoingo: !up wangchun

18:48:38 BingoBoingo: IN other news Selkis is going over to Coindesk since Silbert owns them both.

18:51:01 jurov: no idea about either derp

18:51:14 jurov: should i know them?

18:51:24 BingoBoingo: Not really.

18:58:45 deedbot-: [Qntra] Bitstamp Bans Russia - http://qntra.net/2016/01/bitstamp-bans-russia/

18:59:47 BingoBoingo: Doomed by politeness https://archive.is/ORTGQ

18:59:48 assbot: Bitcoin Classic - Code of conduct ... ( http://bit.ly/1RZ6MBl )

19:00:25 BingoBoingo: Offensive comments related to ... body size << It's because Gavin's bulking isn't it?

19:09:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2706 @ 0.00052369 = 1.4171 BTC [+] {2}

19:12:41 mod6: just needed to build gdb inside of the rotor, that i think was my problemo.

19:13:13 mod6: was able to build v7.10

19:17:17 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb

19:17:25 gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2571.21, vol: 79290.02680000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2571.21

19:17:38 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

19:17:44 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 386.28, vol: 13408.56292557 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 386.443, vol: 9315.19385 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.64, vol: 34099.66123462 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 6.40632189 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 391.732353, vol: 79280.31390000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 388.3002, vol: 284.25406211 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 386.8158, vol: 79.12573361 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

19:20:20 BingoBoingo: ;;more

19:20:20 gribble: 389.802079088

19:21:43 jurov: mod6 why gdb? systemwide gdb works fine

19:27:22 punkman: does trb relay txs with op_return outputs?

19:34:06 jurov: no

19:38:15 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374493 << In Lafondtology 'betters' are a known quantity as well. They attack down so avoid or appease. << oh, lafond himself gets the thing pretty close. it is a class thing. the problem is the speaker, who, like a bunch of his brethren, ended up in this weirdo alt-reality where THEY are the upper class.

19:38:15 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 17:43:00; mircea_popescu: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role

19:38:39 mircea_popescu: you know there;'s a bloodletting coming by the time the fucking footpad imagines himself the baron outright.

19:40:03 BingoBoingo: lol

19:40:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00053068 = 1.592 BTC [+] {4}

19:42:11 *: BingoBoingo thought Lafond made it clear he exists on bottom. Only spared fatal predation so far because prickly.

19:42:45 BingoBoingo: Same reason porcupine is decidedly NOT king of the forest

19:45:41 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/vuQ9G << lulzy

19:45:42 assbot: In an almost totally un-talked about change to the protocol bitcoin now has the innovative feature of just totally throwing away transactions. : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZEZBnO )

19:46:46 jurov: would be hilarious if they reused my hack

19:47:23 BingoBoingo: for srs

19:50:51 BingoBoingo: !Up wang

19:50:56 BingoBoingo: !up wangchun

19:53:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeh. he was quoting some policeman dude tho

19:54:03 mircea_popescu: lol bitcoin core's implementing teh b-a mempool limit stuff ? ha-ha.

19:55:47 mircea_popescu: !up mynameisv

19:58:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.0005307 = 1.3268 BTC [+]

19:59:45 mircea_popescu: here she is asciilifeform : https://www.okcupid.com/profile/myrathe

19:59:46 assbot: myrathe / 38 / Shih-k’eng-tzu, Taiwan | OkCupid ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zu8kUv )

19:59:52 mircea_popescu: first step to our own tsmc!

20:00:31 thestringpuller: "What I'm doing with my life...Working in electronics company.."

20:02:10 mircea_popescu: very polite, submissive girl too.

20:06:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6294 @ 0.00053089 = 3.3414 BTC [+] {3}

20:09:23 ben_vulpes: mornin

20:11:19 mircea_popescu: hola

20:16:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00052771 = 3.8523 BTC [-] {3}

20:54:14 mod6: <+jurov> mod6 why gdb? systemwide gdb works fine << my gentoo didn't have gdb built via portage, so when I went to build that, it blew up (re: yesterday).

20:54:44 mod6: instead, just pulled the source and built inside the rotor so it would be built with the gcc/musl that comes with buildroot

20:55:01 mod6: that way i can actually debug my bitcoind with musl symbols etc.

20:57:00 shinohai: I bought a bottle of muscadine wine to pop open the minute mine finally syncs

20:57:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00053151 = 1.1693 BTC [-] {2}

20:58:51 *: BingoBoingo amazed that with his new lifestyle he can get a can of decent coffee that last a week and has the same cost as a cheap 5th of vodka

21:00:21 pete_dushenski: wouldja look at that... mpex sinks 'bitcoinclassic' and mpoe bust through 53. what a coincidence :P

21:04:17 BingoBoingo: power rangering on https://archive.is/t78mR

21:04:18 assbot: bitcoin/release-notes.md at 0.12 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1RZmLiN )

21:05:39 ben_vulpes: very causation

21:06:21 mats: totes

21:06:36 BingoBoingo: lol, they are also bumping protocol version bit: "Support for the NODE_BLOOM service bit, as described in BIP 111, has been added to the P2P protocol code.

21:06:36 BingoBoingo: BIP 111 defines a service bit to allow peers to advertise that they support bloom filters (such as used by SPV clients) explicitly. It also bumps the protocol version to allow peers to identify old nodes which allow bloom filtering of the connection despite lacking the new service bit.

21:06:37 BingoBoingo: In this version, it is only enforced for peers that send protocol versions >=70011 . For the next major version it is planned that this restriction will be removed. It is recommended to update SPV clients to check for the NODE_BLOOM service bit for nodes that report versions newer than 70011." end powerspam

21:07:21 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform i'm suffering from a failure of imagination--care to link me to the thread where you explain how a cc would work without miners?

21:07:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:10:11 ben_vulpes: hawala, then?

21:12:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00053152 = 1.9135 BTC [+]

21:13:02 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374417

21:13:02 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 16:44:07; ascii_shmoocon: i can think of exactly one: an 'mp-hawala', where mo transacts with the other 17 or so olympians, indeed requires no minerz...

21:13:29 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other.

21:14:09 BingoBoingo: My how things have changed from 2014. TMSR has a fallback plan nao: Become Olympus!

21:14:10 asciilifeform: and if this doesn't look like 'cryptocurrency', don't complain, it is THE logical 'car for the k00l d00dz and not the 15m maggots'

21:14:51 phf: this is where it's all going, pgpgrams over gossip of v-ified ledgers

21:15:44 mod6: neat

21:15:44 pete_dushenski: https://github.com/bitcoin-solutions/multibit/issues/23 << itsa davout from 2012 !

21:15:45 assbot: Mandatory tx fee · Issue #23 · bitcoin-solutions/multibit · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zug2xY )

21:16:20 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i've been wondering, you ever set foot in a factory of whatever type ?

21:16:31 asciilifeform: even as tourist

21:16:41 pete_dushenski: boeing comes to mind

21:16:45 pete_dushenski: yes

21:17:03 asciilifeform: aha! good. do you recall the tooling ?

21:17:23 asciilifeform: the materials ?

21:17:35 pete_dushenski: sure...

21:18:03 asciilifeform: what do you suppose a tungsten carbide endmill would cost if created by hand in quantity of three ?

21:18:20 phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")

21:18:32 asciilifeform: phf: you know very well what happened

21:18:44 phf: :(

21:19:03 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i suppose they'd be more expensive, perhaps even too expensive to cost-effectively use.

21:19:15 asciilifeform: 'perhaps' l0l

21:20:50 pete_dushenski: you speak as if it's a certainty, or at least as if it were a certainty, that it'd matter.

21:21:18 pete_dushenski: have you no faith in human ingenuity ?

21:21:26 asciilifeform: to even contemplate the notion that it doesn't matter, or to suggest that it is anything short of certain, betrays a deep ignorance of the actual making-things business as it stands for the last 200 yr.

21:22:29 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: myes, i can see this

21:22:31 asciilifeform: i would like to watch pete_dushenski make a piston for his mercedes without carbide tooling

21:22:38 asciilifeform: or to drive same mercedes on ru mud road

21:22:38 ben_vulpes: aha carbides

21:23:02 asciilifeform: (where german tanks sank into the earth)

21:23:06 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: if faced with ru roads, i'd drive g-wagon, as ru'ians do.

21:23:24 pete_dushenski: i live in paved arctic, so drive s-class

21:23:30 ben_vulpes: anyways an entirely viable future is one wherein the various lords with computing gear remaining in the closet operate their own bitcoind variants as local banks, holding chits for the peasants and reconciling over shortwave gpggram

21:23:45 ben_vulpes: ofc one could also do entirely away with the 'cc' part.

21:24:02 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but that's perfectly pedestrian 'mad max' remnants-of-the-old, rather than ab initio 'for the 15k!1111'

21:24:04 ben_vulpes: gotta kill the megastates first though.

21:24:21 BingoBoingo: Moar on NODE_BLOOM service bit https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0111.mediawiki

21:24:22 assbot: bips/bip-0111.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZugOLr )

21:24:45 ben_vulpes: yeah well who knows how the trajectory actually draws through the possibility space

21:24:58 BingoBoingo: "In initial implementations, old nodes which are not yet aware of NODE_BLOOM and use a protocol version < 70011 may still send filter messages to a node without NODE_BLOOM. This feature may be removed after there are sufficient NODE_BLOOM nodes available and SPV clients have upgraded, allowing node operators to fully close the bloom-related DoS vectors."

21:24:59 asciilifeform: we can say a few meaningful things about where it WON'T go

21:25:05 asciilifeform: because those are the lands of magical pixies

21:25:22 asciilifeform: like the one where semiconductors are made out of horse shit in medieval castles

21:25:38 oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/weathercock/

21:25:39 assbot: "Weathercock" ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZugUmk )

21:25:53 asciilifeform: or where handmade mercedes drives 100 miles WITHOUT needing new piston rings

21:26:04 asciilifeform: and without shaking the oh-precious princess therein, to death

21:26:11 *: ben_vulpes once attempted to fab a piston

21:26:34 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha! and it ran ? for how long ?

21:26:44 ben_vulpes: didn't! at all!

21:26:48 ben_vulpes: like everything else i do.

21:26:54 pete_dushenski: lol

21:27:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didja lap it ?

21:27:16 *: ben_vulpes regards the vast pile of oddities that sorta-worked

21:27:23 ben_vulpes: actually the waste oil furnace was pretty good

21:27:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what was it, stirling engine ?

21:27:58 ben_vulpes: piston or furnace?

21:28:29 asciilifeform: either

21:28:49 ben_vulpes: piston was for lulzy undergraduate water cooled lfr engine design with reciprocating pistons to pressurize fuel lines

21:29:08 ben_vulpes: learned that turbo machinery is clearly the correct solution

21:29:19 ben_vulpes: furnace was for heating warehouse where i was working

21:29:36 asciilifeform: and why waste oil

21:29:42 asciilifeform: neighbours had it ?

21:29:47 ben_vulpes: there was a chinese restaurant giving it away up the street!

21:29:52 asciilifeform: neato

21:29:56 asciilifeform: must've smelled delicious

21:30:02 *: ben_vulpes maggot, proud to find free energy around

21:30:11 ben_vulpes: 'twas outside

21:30:15 ben_vulpes: horrendously noisy

21:30:18 ben_vulpes: BUT SO AWESOME

21:30:37 ben_vulpes: pumped water through the furnace, up to our shop, and through an old car radiator with a fan behind it.

21:30:55 ben_vulpes: did not work as well as the radiant attachments atop the propane tank

21:31:10 ben_vulpes: also blew crap all over the shop while i was finishing tables and whatnot, so eventually decommissioned.

21:31:19 asciilifeform: but slower co poisoning than with tank ?

21:31:54 ben_vulpes: co poisoning not really an issue, it's a slow flow over some steel mesh, more or less everything burns off on the mesh going to co2

21:31:58 ben_vulpes: plus very tall ceilings

21:31:58 asciilifeform: i have what is supposed to be a spiffy propane heater in the workshop, it is not endurable for more than half hour or so

21:32:05 BingoBoingo: kinda lulzy discussion re: NODE_BLOOM bit https://archive.is/Jb1jN

21:32:06 assbot: Add NODE_BLOOM service bit and bump protocol version by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #6579 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZuhGj2 )

21:32:08 asciilifeform: and nonsense, it does not all burn off.

21:32:09 ben_vulpes: which one? and why unendurable?

21:32:14 asciilifeform: gasenwagen.

21:32:34 ben_vulpes: well, "most" relative to volume of shop.

21:32:49 asciilifeform: 'Mr. Heater' F232000.

21:33:06 ben_vulpes: oh jeez

21:33:13 ben_vulpes: is that /plastic/?

21:33:31 asciilifeform: the handle was thermoplastic iirc (as on frying pan)

21:33:38 ben_vulpes: you want the eye of sauron: mr heater mh15t

21:34:03 asciilifeform: on wooden floor ?!

21:34:16 asciilifeform: also same problem

21:34:20 asciilifeform: unvented combustion sucks.

21:34:22 asciilifeform: no way around it.

21:34:33 ben_vulpes: "science doesn't suck -- it blows!"

21:34:34 asciilifeform: unless you burn motherfuckin hydrogen

21:34:44 ben_vulpes: yeah well get a bigger shop

21:35:01 ben_vulpes: only time i ever came close to death by co2 was operating the concrete cutter in someone's basement

21:35:03 ben_vulpes: that was a fun day

21:35:06 asciilifeform: by co2 ?!!

21:35:08 ben_vulpes: c0*

21:35:09 BingoBoingo: Really the solution is electric heat

21:35:11 ben_vulpes: co co

21:35:31 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried electric heat. blows out the breakers, the place is powered via extension cord

21:35:36 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: electric is the *worst*

21:35:41 ben_vulpes: takes mega current

21:35:54 asciilifeform: i entirely would if could.

21:36:03 *: BingoBoingo appologizes for poor attempt at miner joak

21:36:09 ben_vulpes: oh lol

21:36:19 punkman: wood stove that vents outside mebbe

21:36:22 ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.

21:36:27 asciilifeform: punkman: on wooden floor?!!

21:36:55 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what is with you and unsanitary working conditions

21:37:06 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: money ?

21:37:07 BingoBoingo: alf lives in hovel in jungle

21:37:08 asciilifeform: elementarily ?

21:37:17 BingoBoingo: been discussed before

21:37:30 asciilifeform: the key thing is that the one non-negotiable thing i use, is VERY expensive

21:37:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00053152 = 3.7738 BTC [+]

21:37:33 asciilifeform: anywhere in the world

21:37:36 asciilifeform: :

21:37:43 asciilifeform: vermin-free area

21:37:43 ben_vulpes: sleep?

21:37:53 punkman: asciilifeform: why not on wooden floor

21:38:05 asciilifeform: as in, no extraneous bodies within ~50 metre in any direction

21:38:35 asciilifeform: wooden floor, in this context, is actually a great deal

21:38:54 asciilifeform: it beats, say, bare permafrost

21:39:31 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sleep is actually far too expensive for me to afford

21:39:47 asciilifeform: because the no-vermin thing comes FIRST

21:41:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374583 << what am i looking at, mircea_popescu ?

21:41:33 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 19:59:45; mircea_popescu: here she is asciilifeform : https://www.okcupid.com/profile/myrathe

21:41:45 phf: warehouses are expensive in dc area. it's some sort of idiot bubble, because you can rent warehouse space by acres in baltimore and whereabouts, only an hour away

21:41:59 asciilifeform: phf: not cheap there either

21:42:10 asciilifeform: at least not in human-sized pieces

21:42:28 asciilifeform: 10,000 sq. ft. for a dollar/mo. each? sure. 1000 ? go away. etc

21:42:50 asciilifeform: and anything you leave there is liable to be carted away or smashed.

21:43:02 asciilifeform: (unless you also station a platoon of orc-hunters therein)

21:44:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374593 << mega-recommended approach. guaranteed to work unless something is SERIOUSLY broken with the WHOLE rotor.

21:44:04 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 20:54:44; mod6: instead, just pulled the source and built inside the rotor so it would be built with the gcc/musl that comes with buildroot

21:44:33 ben_vulpes: did i hear that someone managed to get rotor to clobber their whole homedir?

21:44:38 asciilifeform: the whole reason i did rotor was to thermonuke whatever dependencies there were on the crud on various people's boxes

21:44:58 BingoBoingo: lol

21:45:01 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you try hard, and violate instructions sufficiently liberally, you can probably rm -rf your ENTIRE HOUSE

21:45:09 asciilifeform: and street.

21:45:15 BingoBoingo: !b 5

21:45:17 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2GEEEGT.txt )

21:45:17 ben_vulpes: "FOOF"

21:46:43 asciilifeform: ;;later tell punindented what was the point of your http://dpaste.com/0CRQ2PJ ?

21:46:44 assbot: dpaste: 0CRQ2PJ: by punindented ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZujrwG )

21:46:44 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:47:24 asciilifeform: who the everliving fuck uses mawk, and for what ??

21:49:26 phf: fwiw, i've ran it on large data before and it was constant faster then bsd awk that comes with os x

21:49:33 ben_vulpes: > i adopted it in 2009

21:49:53 ben_vulpes: guy writes javascript, uses mawk...

22:05:27 BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz

22:07:33 BingoBoingo: !up B0g4r7_

22:12:09 BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13

22:16:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052927 = 2.5405 BTC [-] {3}

22:20:31 mod6: asciilifeform: punindented was trying to help out a bit -- he hit that weird bug with vdiff on ubuntu or debian or something, when then reminded me that I lost your fix for that. I've searched through logs many times, can't seem to find it. I did actually ask yesterday too:

22:20:36 mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.

22:21:01 mod6: so if you have yours somewhere it'd be awesome to get that and place it somewhere so I don't lose it again.

22:21:49 mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if you try hard, and violate instructions sufficiently liberally, you can probably rm -rf your ENTIRE HOUSE << yes someone did do this.

22:22:02 mod6: and blew away their pgp keys too.

22:22:10 mod6: so make sure you have your keys backed up!

22:22:17 mod6: and don't nuke your entire world.

22:27:05 mircea_popescu: !up raedah

22:28:20 raedah: buona sera

22:31:24 mircea_popescu: hola.

22:35:11 mod6: !up hanbot

22:35:39 hanbot: danke

22:36:03 mod6: bitte

22:37:01 mircea_popescu: lol check it out it's manners day over at old b-a.

22:37:15 ben_vulpes: rude

22:38:25 *: hanbot takes out an extra pinky finger to hold aloft

22:38:32 mod6: :D

23:04:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00052854 = 2.9598 BTC [-] {3}

23:09:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374627 << same thing that happens to "fridge ecosystem" once the engineer dies.

23:09:12 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:18:20; phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")

23:09:17 mircea_popescu: ah wellcome back!

23:09:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374634 << you've created yourself a convenient strawman and are having sex with it.

23:09:43 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:21:26; asciilifeform: to even contemplate the notion that it doesn't matter, or to suggest that it is anything short of certain, betrays a deep ignorance of the actual making-things business as it stands for the last 200 yr.

23:10:01 mircea_popescu: again : the volume of production and the relationships between people are unrelated.

23:10:18 mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.

23:11:00 mircea_popescu: there's nothing but fartware and wishful thinking backing this notion that "every idiot getting 10 dollars to spend is the best possible world", pangloss.

23:11:23 mircea_popescu: for all you know the world where every derp and his ten dollars causes britney spears is the world where quality musical instruments do not exist.

23:11:51 mircea_popescu: for all you know the world of manufacturing was lots and lots more powerful back when trhey were supplying bach's needs than sepultura's.

23:12:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374632 << it's what they call "a psychological necessity".

23:12:38 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:20:50; pete_dushenski: you speak as if it's a certainty, or at least as if it were a certainty, that it'd matter.

23:22:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374700 << why the fuck would you even do unvented combustion.

23:22:46 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:34:20; asciilifeform: unvented combustion sucks.

23:23:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052727 = 1.0282 BTC [-] {2}

23:24:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374718 << i hate radiative heating. my skin feels like i'm sunbathing, and i also hate sunbathing.

23:24:42 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:36:22; ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.

23:24:54 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374796 << because wooden shed with no provisions for proper stove.

23:24:54 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 23:22:46; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374700 << why the fuck would you even do unvented combustion.

23:25:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh tell me more about how sane people don't get carbide this or that, please.

23:25:27 mircea_popescu: clearly this shit's working so well.

23:25:43 asciilifeform: hey i have a full set of carbide cutters and lathe in there, l0l

23:25:47 mircea_popescu: i never lived in a fucking hovel where the heating wasn't vented, either outside the wall or in specially made vents ffs.

23:25:54 mircea_popescu: but then again i guess i never lived in civilisation.

23:25:59 asciilifeform: it's a shed

23:26:03 asciilifeform: wasn't meant for life

23:26:10 mircea_popescu: ...

23:26:15 asciilifeform: was built for keeping shovels, etc.

23:26:16 mircea_popescu: so what do you do there then. die first.

23:26:32 asciilifeform: i drill/mill/lathe things etc. there.

23:26:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, so if it's a wooden shed, cut a hole, add a pipe and some insulation, done.

23:26:54 asciilifeform: did this eventually, for the laser.

23:27:43 asciilifeform: but admittedly the subject is of very little interest to people who aren't me.

23:28:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374742 << this is pretty insane, i had something like high 30's for ~700 euro total.

23:28:32 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:42:28; asciilifeform: 10,000 sq. ft. for a dollar/mo. each? sure. 1000 ? go away. etc

23:28:46 asciilifeform: take me to your planet.

23:28:47 mircea_popescu: 37k i think it was.

23:28:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did! you wouldn't even fuck the eager gypsy girls!

23:29:14 asciilifeform: it was mouthwateringly glorious, aha.

23:29:26 asciilifeform: remember how i wanted to buy the dump ?

23:29:27 mircea_popescu: now granted, it was just a concrete slab with corrugated sheet walls and roof.

23:29:29 asciilifeform: the one with the broken bottles

23:29:34 mircea_popescu: lol

23:29:44 mircea_popescu: but apparently this is standard these days.

23:30:02 asciilifeform: corrugated steel walls is a palace to me.

23:30:54 mircea_popescu: ironically, the locals were kinda jealous of the guy, because it comes out that doing a 40 x 100 metre concrete slab and surrounding it in basically an elaborate, roofed fence costs less than building an actual house, and brought in rent slightly more.

23:31:22 asciilifeform: oh l0l! was this the thing by the graveyard ?!

23:31:26 asciilifeform: with the blue roof ?

23:31:27 mircea_popescu: aha

23:31:39 mircea_popescu: middle of nowhere, but hey, it had natl road access right by the door.

23:31:52 asciilifeform: i drooled over it on 'google earth'

23:32:45 mircea_popescu: anyway. back in the day "warehouse" meant brick wall, etc.

23:33:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374790 << ok 1 in 10 - is sane. the thing that melted my brain was the contention that five barons could have handmade silicon etc.

23:33:19 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 23:10:18; mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.

23:34:05 mircea_popescu: look at my most recent article, the curve is there and intuitively obvious what's meant.

23:34:11 asciilifeform: aha, just did

23:34:14 mircea_popescu: hm... it never made it to the chan this, did it ?

23:34:21 asciilifeform: in light of it it makes sense.

23:34:32 asciilifeform: http://fraudsters.com/2016/this-is-how-you-fail-and-why-and-wherefore << it

23:34:33 assbot: This is how you fail ; and why ; and wherefore. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/238XvvM )

23:37:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374767 << i do not recall this.

23:37:49 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:20:36; mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.

23:37:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374742 << sharing one makes eminently little sense. you can't rent except by the gate.

23:37:51 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:42:28; asciilifeform: 10,000 sq. ft. for a dollar/mo. each? sure. 1000 ? go away. etc

23:38:20 asciilifeform: mod6: was it the the LC_ALL=C thing?

23:38:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha. though it is not unheard-of to subdivide a warehouse

23:38:49 mircea_popescu: not among unknowns.

23:39:15 mod6: asciilifeform: no i don't think so.

23:39:17 mircea_popescu: heck, i guess in practice every insanity's heard of, including to subdivide a woman unawares.

23:39:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once knew two fellas who unknowingly shared a toothbrush for most of a year.

23:40:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374762 << nah. and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374764 << this is sensible and a welcome idea, in general. tho i still dunno how much the proposed replacement's worth.

23:40:21 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:05:27; BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz

23:40:21 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:12:09; BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13

23:40:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00052404 = 2.7774 BTC [-] {2}

23:40:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform confucius say, better share toothbrush than buttplug.

23:40:46 asciilifeform: i went over the crud

23:40:53 asciilifeform: it very much is moar of the same.

23:40:57 mircea_popescu: so did a few other people.

23:41:04 mircea_popescu: would you swear to anything ?

23:42:03 mod6: here's what it is asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/3QGYPPK.txt

23:42:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ozu8cr )

23:42:09 asciilifeform: my tentative conclusion is that the phoundation folk are making things explicit

23:42:16 asciilifeform: (in re: the corralling of the cattle)

23:42:39 mod6: i should also point out this: http://dpaste.com/01R3NFN.txt

23:42:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OzubVF )

23:43:06 asciilifeform: mod6: i have no idea what is happening here

23:43:14 asciilifeform: but it suggests that your sed is broken

23:43:19 asciilifeform: awk, rather

23:43:51 punkman: I think I had that error, just changed around the quoting of the vdiff command

23:44:03 mod6: yeah, this seems to be the case on ubuntu & deb (iirc), only works on gentoo for me. you fixed this once iirc. but i've since lost the changes :/

23:45:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00052999 = 2.7559 BTC [+] {3}

23:45:44 punkman: mod6, here's my version: diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }'

23:45:53 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Bitstamp has emailed users stating it has banned access from all IP addresses originating from the Russian Federation access to the Bitcoin exchange."

23:45:59 mircea_popescu: and what is this "continue reading" thing ?

23:46:56 asciilifeform: 'Starting with Tor version 0.2.7.1 it is possible, through Tor's control socket API, to create and destroy 'ephemeral' hidden services programmatically. Bitcoin Core has been updated to make use of this. This means that if Tor is running (and proper authorization is available), Bitcoin Core automatically creates a hidden service to listen on, without manual configuration. Bitcoin Core will also use Tor automatically to connect

23:46:56 asciilifeform: to other .onion nodes if the control socket can be successfully opened. This will positively affect the number of available .onion nodes and their usage. This new feature is enabled by default if Bitcoin Core is listening, and a connection to Tor can be made.' << l0l!!

23:47:51 mircea_popescu: o.O

23:48:02 asciilifeform: 'Previously, every wallet transaction stored a Merkle branch to prove its presence in blocks. This wasn't being used for more than an expensive sanity check. Since 0.12, these are no longer stored.'

23:48:10 guruvan: mod6: that image I made last night isn't working - there's a fork at block 168000 that it's not liking

23:48:27 mircea_popescu: isn't that the bdb issue ?

23:48:29 asciilifeform: guruvan: what was this ?

23:48:32 guruvan: can I just build as per instrux here http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin and

23:48:34 assbot: the_real_bitcoin [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/238YcVW )

23:48:34 punkman: guruvan: possibly because of openssl version

23:48:51 mircea_popescu: gah, is half our documentation unmaintained / out of date by now ?

23:48:55 asciilifeform: holy shit, year-old instructions ?!!1

23:48:58 guruvan: asciilifeform: working on a trb docker image - looks like was 168000 p2sh ?

23:48:58 mircea_popescu: jesus.

23:49:22 mircea_popescu: listen, ben_vulpes mod6 you gotta have a process to prevent this situation. no documentation is bad. wrong or obsolete documentation is way way worse.

23:49:24 asciilifeform: but iirc even therealbitcoin.org doesn't mention 'v'

23:49:24 guruvan: I'm not using that - I'm building straight from a tarball

23:49:31 asciilifeform: or the modern v-tronic build

23:49:56 guruvan: mircea_popescu: docker image Dockerfile helps document buld process -that part of why I do these

23:50:05 mircea_popescu: lotta people suddenly got interested, caught us with the pants down in a very wrong spot to have pants down.

23:50:09 mircea_popescu: guruvan did you make sense of v so far ?

23:50:55 guruvan: sorta - I think I have everything in the current mirror set all figured out - haven't tried to build anything outta that yet

23:51:03 mircea_popescu: aite.

23:51:17 asciilifeform: #5677 9aa9099 libevent-based http server << let's add mega-dependency crud !1111

23:51:27 guruvan: I got V working, synced and all, just not tried to do a build with it yet

23:51:53 guruvan: more or less tried all the pertinent commands - made sure it seemed set up right

23:52:36 mircea_popescu: alright.

23:53:06 asciilifeform: #6650 4fac576 Obfuscate chainstate << wut.

23:53:20 guruvan: seriously asciilifeform what's up there

23:53:45 guruvan: I was wondering about this when I saw this in the logs today (on classic?)

23:53:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> holy shit, year-old instructions ?!!1 << the link he gave references a log line by me from just before xmas.

23:53:53 mircea_popescu: so a month old.

23:53:59 asciilifeform: hm

23:54:07 asciilifeform: i saw a .sh, assumed pre-v

23:55:12 *: mircea_popescu dials down panic two notches.

23:55:28 asciilifeform: #6351 2a1090d CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (BIP65) IsSuperMajority() soft-fork << lulz

23:55:48 asciilifeform: #6954 e54ebbf Switch to libsecp256k1-based ECDSA validation << as mentioned earlier by BingoBoingo ?

23:56:11 asciilifeform: #6508 61457c2 Switch to a constant-space Merkle root/branch algorithm. << anybody have the time/energy to look? i don't...

23:56:14 guruvan: there some more docs on the rotor script? this looks like the mojo I'm looking for for the simple docker "whip up a node for testing" builds

23:56:42 asciilifeform: #6210 0e4f2a0 build: disable optional use of gmp in internal secp256k1 build << what's it use instead of gmp ?!!??

23:56:59 asciilifeform: own crackpot bignum ?

23:57:20 asciilifeform: #6619 4862708 depends: bump miniupnpc and ccache << apparently upnp is still in the mix

23:58:12 guruvan: why this is even in the code in the first place is a mystery

23:59:28 mircea_popescu: standard explanation, "it has some pores dept x needs"

23:59:41 mircea_popescu: most of the time it's junk anyway, but hey, bureaucracy prevails!

23:59:58 guruvan: LOL :) some pores compay ABC needs ;)