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Transcript for 17-02-2015, 1331 lines:

00:10:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39466 @ 0.00043797 = 17.2849 BTC [+] {2}

00:12:27 cazalla: anyone able to recommend wiki software?

00:14:02 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is using something on b-a wiki

00:14:45 mike_c: why not just use the b-a wiki? It already has limited editors.

00:16:06 mike_c: unless it's meant as seo fodder for qntra i guess.

00:16:54 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/netagio-to-close-bitcoin-exchange-in-favour-of-fiat/

00:17:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70900 @ 0.00043797 = 31.0521 BTC [+]

00:17:34 cazalla: mike_c, that is specific to #b-a moreso than Bitcoin in general isn't it? and anyway, if i pursue this by myself in the short-mid term, it'll reflect on me instead of b-a website

00:24:44 mike_c: it is specific to bitcoin assets, yes :) History of bitcoin companies seems appropriate. But I think it mostly depends on how much help you want.

00:25:22 mike_c: If you want a bunch of people to contribute, the wiki is there. If you basically want to do it yourself, then sure, put it wherever.

00:26:04 mike_c: It certainly would tie in with qntra.

00:28:57 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/904ca035334c9b3ddba2959a6f7bbef7/tumblr_n7xwm8eVU11sgur0go1_400.gif

00:29:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DzMcAh )

00:29:36 mircea_popescu: it could work as a wiki or as a category on qntra i ugess.

00:30:25 thestringpuller: lol furries.

00:56:58 BingoBoingo: Adlai: is it that hard to imagine that nsa doesn't need the manufacturers' text source to backdoor their drives!? << PC9000

00:59:39 *: Adlai is too busy doing the victory dance to look this up... he now has two scalpls running in the same lisp image and they're not stepping on eachother's toes

01:01:50 Adlai: last time i tried this, with a financier watching over my shoulder, his bot trod on mine, and after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, both irrevocably crashed... that was nearly 5 months ago. now it's working flawlessly :D

01:13:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55889 @ 0.00044511 = 24.8768 BTC [+] {2}

01:19:07 decimation: that netagio closing is amusing. I wonder what the real story behind it is

01:19:27 decimation: " Market share of Bitcoin trading globally continues to mirror Bitcoin adoption stages, with China leading the way with 67%, the US capturing 27% of all Bitcoin trading, the EU following with 2.5% and the UK with a stagnating 0.25%, mostly as a result of a lack of regulatory guidelines and UK banks withdrawing banking support from British Bitcoin businesses."

01:20:18 mircea_popescu: lmao!

01:20:27 decimation: if those numbers are correct, I wonder why europe is so low?

01:20:33 mircea_popescu: mostly the result of shitty regulation environment and uk people being idiots.

01:20:50 mircea_popescu: decimation europeans are by and large exactly like usians, ie, monolinguistic.

01:20:58 mircea_popescu: with the added disadvantage that they speak obscure languages

01:21:07 decimation: the goldmoney people (who invested in netagio) seem to know what they are doing

01:21:30 decimation: 'monolinguistic' in the sense that their opinion was fixed by harvard ca. 1945?

01:21:39 mircea_popescu: tbh, that 67/27/2.5/0.25 thing pretty much exactly matches the map of real gdp

01:21:56 mircea_popescu: no, in the sense that they simply do not know what happens if it wasn't written in hungarian

01:22:22 decimation: I thought that most germans and french spoke english at least

01:22:23 mircea_popescu: or w/e. danish

01:22:34 mircea_popescu: well, most americans speak french

01:22:45 decimation: heh, 'speak'

01:22:46 mircea_popescu: at least if you mean "most of the people makin > 250k and living in a big city"

01:23:23 decimation: but this very parochialism is why bitcoin ought to be attractive

01:23:39 decimation: 'maybe people outside hungary will use this new trade coin'

01:25:33 decimation: well, at any rate I give the netagio people credit - they unwound in an orderly way when the business wasn't working out

01:30:15 mircea_popescu: http://www.infobae.com/2015/02/16/1627076-puerto-madero-como-es-el-lugar-donde-encontraron-un-cadaver-incinerado

01:30:16 assbot: Puerto Madero: cómo es el lugar donde encontraron un cadáver incinerado | La muerte de Nisman - Infobae ... ( http://bit.ly/1FUN7La )

01:30:20 mircea_popescu: that's a new one

01:33:16 decimation: the plaza of the women?

01:34:08 mircea_popescu: yeh

01:34:23 mircea_popescu: i actually walked by there, in the middle of teh night maybe a month or two ago ?

01:34:34 mircea_popescu: but with naked rather than flaming woman in tow.

01:41:05 asciilifeform: hdd firmware << 1) snore. revealed definitively in doc. ~month ago, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-01-2015#981436 2) proven as concept in 'linux on hdd head controller' ~2 yrs ago 3) experimented with privately by numerous folks, incl. yours truly, for a few years before 4) mostly a snore, even the best hdd diddle falls down in a raid5 system

01:41:05 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 04:50:24; asciilifeform: http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35661.pdf << the document concerning specific doctored firmware

01:45:35 mircea_popescu: i still don't see the wisdom of allowing diddling of firmware via data bus.

01:45:43 asciilifeform: whizzdom

01:46:09 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

01:46:14 asciilifeform: and now that the multivendor diddlomatic is out, winblows users will get what they so persistently beg for

01:46:24 asciilifeform: (by remaining winblows users, that is)

01:46:45 asciilifeform: it'll be in every ring0 turd on the planet before the year's out, possibly.

01:48:37 asciilifeform: (and yes, virtually all extant hdds are trivially reflashable.)

01:49:46 asciilifeform: of the handful of vendors whose drives i have studied personally, not one used a signature scheme of any kind, for example

01:49:58 asciilifeform: anyone who has ring0 on the box and can send raw ata cmds. can flash.

01:50:30 BingoBoingo: Reflashing firmware is one of those things that should require a goat sacrifice. Fort Mead would smell better.

01:50:43 asciilifeform: if there exists, somewhere, a maker of drives which demand signatures - usg is the first to get a copy of the key, to no one's great surprise

01:51:04 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what is the reason why it should not be a mask rom ?

01:51:19 asciilifeform: i can see no legit reason to ship a drive with buggy firmware.

01:51:41 asciilifeform: it is done, like the 'anal child' in mircea_popescu's essay, 'because they can get away with it'

01:53:03 asciilifeform: (not news) usg really loves rc5 and rc6 as non-attributable stream ciphers

01:53:09 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No particular reason. Makes Data recovery stuff easier with PC9000. Also creates a market for that kind of data recovery when firmware makes drive shit the bed.

01:53:40 asciilifeform: if these produce statistical anomalies (distinguishable from white noise) as rc4 is known to, this'd be a good avenue to search for 'mouse droppings' in the wild.

01:57:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.00044645 = 15.3579 BTC [+] {2}

01:58:31 decimation: re: diddling firmware via data bus << in band signaling strikes again

01:58:59 asciilifeform: updatable via the bus for the same reason as everything else: so lusers can update from winblows

01:59:19 asciilifeform: without even having to contemplate opening the chassis, in which, as is known, daemons live

02:01:04 decimation: of course, the drive manufacturers couldn't put a switch or toggle on the front of the computer

02:01:20 asciilifeform: It Would Be Wrong (TM)

02:01:54 decimation: in a similar way that allowing the user to enter their own cryptography via a separate front panel would be wrong

02:02:16 asciilifeform: ^ specifically prohibited in the export control statute

02:02:18 asciilifeform: by name.,

02:02:27 decimation: gee I wonder why

02:02:49 asciilifeform: 'It is not clear how the NSA may have obtained the hard drives' source code.' << wtf

02:02:53 asciilifeform: who needs the source?

02:02:55 *: asciilifeform didn't

02:03:10 BingoBoingo: So Free world chip foundries are what, 5 to 20 years out?

02:03:11 decimation: asciilifeform: it's impossible to analyze the rom contents of a simple microcontroller

02:03:35 asciilifeform: granted, some of the drives had weird variations on the usual themes (say, dual mips cores with oodles of proprietary coprocessor regs)

02:03:42 asciilifeform: but nothing especially 'martian'

02:03:58 decimation: hell I bet some of them have a flash chip sitting there

02:04:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless you know something i don't, they're $maxint years out

02:04:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not even the theoretical basis for contemplating such a thing, presently exists.

02:04:28 asciilifeform: decimation: most of'em.

02:04:44 BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: it's impossible to analyze the rom contents of a simple microcontroller << Once again PC9000. Russian product that basically lets anyone who can understand the interface su all over the hdd firmware.

02:05:03 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no need for weird winblows crapware

02:05:12 decimation: yeah I was being sarcastic

02:05:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87744 @ 0.0004482 = 39.3269 BTC [+] {2}

02:05:17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: connect a ttl-to-serial voltage converter to the convenient debug pins, and have at it

02:05:42 asciilifeform: earlier today someone reposted the famous (~2yr.) link of demo where linux is installed on the head controller

02:05:43 decimation: there are many ways to map machine code to assembly to pseudo-c

02:06:05 asciilifeform: decimation: generally no one does this. folks read the asm straight

02:06:13 decimation: 'fits in head'

02:06:19 asciilifeform: http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-14437584971410/91401152-7.gif

02:06:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vQZ98c )

02:06:24 asciilifeform: ^ convenient illustration

02:06:29 asciilifeform: pulled it straight out of arse

02:07:17 asciilifeform: http://g04.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1aHXaGXXXXXbnXVXXq6xXFXXXr/201052183/HTB1aHXaGXXXXXbnXVXXq6xXFXXXr.jpg

02:07:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vQZd7T )

02:07:19 asciilifeform: and $maxint more

02:07:50 asciilifeform: read with what?

02:07:53 asciilifeform: with one of these:

02:07:53 asciilifeform: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI4OVgxNjAw/z/lDUAAOxyRhBSs3Px/$_35.JPG

02:07:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vQZjwl )

02:08:02 asciilifeform: ^ useful household tool, everyone should own

02:08:18 decimation: I would like to get a collection of 'chip clips'

02:08:43 asciilifeform: used as such - https://farm9.static.flickr.com/8483/8250761184_8a3331953d.jpg

02:08:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vQZnfr )

02:08:44 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: connect a ttl-to-serial voltage converter to the convenient debug pins, and have at it << PC9000 largely valued because drive plugs in to IDE or SATA ports in this ISA/(hopefully there's a PCI version by now) card. Boot to card. Diddle at leisure with curses interface. Most operations automated already.

02:10:46 decimation: asciilifeform: what do you think the best method would be to semi-permanently attach a lead to an smt chip pin? I tend to ruin the pad by soldering

02:11:01 decimation: I wonder if there's like a little mini-clamp that you can affix to a pin

02:14:03 asciilifeform: logic analyzers come with 'crocodiles' for single pins but no real use for high-pitched smt

02:14:15 asciilifeform: and no real use for high frequencies

02:14:24 BingoBoingo: So OpenBSD 0.7.2 qt build 17 hours without an OOM kill (returned to 512MB process limit a while back) Presently a June 15th, 2013. Seems the space for bastards to be introduced has shrank enough to make bastards moar manageable.

02:14:32 asciilifeform: gotta solder them or use a properly fitted clip like in the photo

02:14:41 asciilifeform: the soic-8 one pictures costs around $10.

02:14:42 decimation: yeah that's what I figured

02:15:58 ben_vulpes: Adlai: what's the goal of running multiple bots in the same lisp image?

02:16:01 ben_vulpes: what does it buy one?

02:16:26 Adlai: share code & data

02:16:37 ben_vulpes: ah ha

02:16:59 Adlai: remember, my "server" is a thinkpad ca 2002, so every cons counts

02:18:18 ben_vulpes: i'd no idea, actually.

02:20:08 ben_vulpes: re: bastards, has anyone experimented with the number of blocks requested?

02:20:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90850 @ 0.00043356 = 39.3889 BTC [-]

02:20:58 ben_vulpes: 'tis another knob to turn. if instead of rewriting the bastard storage mechanism, one could leverage the network protocol to reduce the number of bastards per wad sent over the wire, it might alleviate some pain.

02:21:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: regardless of what else, the unbounded data structure has to go

02:21:40 *: BingoBoingo sad Tadpole laptops still sell for effectively $maxint

02:21:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's a 'not whether death, but when' sorta thing

02:21:44 BingoBoingo: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tadpole-RDI-General-Dynamics-UltraBookIIi-UltraSPARC-Solaris-UNIX-Laptop-/161106196715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2582ad78eb

02:21:46 assbot: Tadpole RDI General Dynamics Ultrabookiii UltraSPARC Solaris Unix Laptop | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1vR0ETZ )

02:22:20 asciilifeform: 15k!

02:22:31 asciilifeform: a bit much even for most museums.

02:22:51 asciilifeform: you can get any lisp machine ever made, for example, with a crate of parts to last you a lifetime, for half of this

02:23:11 BingoBoingo: Seriously

02:23:32 asciilifeform: mega-lol in the 'faq' on that listing ^

02:23:53 asciilifeform: 'QUESTION: Are you insane? Are you stupid? No one would ever pay this much for a laptop! You should sell it to me for $10 because it is so old and worthless. / ANSWER: Contrary to your opinion, I sell several of these machines per week. These machines are used for many reasons including: / Government & Military projects ...'

02:24:44 BingoBoingo: Even Beastmode looks like it comes to under $500 with shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUN-Ultra-80-Server-Quad-450MHz-4GB-Memory-73GB-HD-/380342615233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588e2fbcc1

02:24:47 assbot: Sun Ultra 80 Server Quad 450MHz 4GB Memory 73GB HD | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1vR0X0P )

02:25:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my uni threw out pallets of these

02:25:54 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One Uni I attended at last visit earlier this year still has lab full of its wimpier contemporary

02:26:19 *: asciilifeform doesn't see the appeal of closed source unixen, no matter how he tries

02:26:29 asciilifeform: regardless of on what chip, etc.

02:27:52 BingoBoingo: That lab "engineering building Floor one at SIU Carbondale, forget which wing" still solaris lab. I like the hardware though for "lives forever" and other unixen run fine

02:29:06 BingoBoingo: WHat lab is full of http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ultra-60-Workstation-2x-450MHz-2GB-RAM-73GB-HD-/380274164694?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588a1b43d6 << Not same price as Ultra 80 which is twice the processors of this one

02:29:08 assbot: Sun Ultra 60 Workstation 2X 450MHz 2GB RAM 73GB HD | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjKGgK )

02:31:57 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the best way to get something like this is to be there when folks are throwing them out by the tonne

02:32:00 asciilifeform: e.g., when i did

02:32:34 BingoBoingo: I'm waiting for them to hit the dumpster

02:32:55 BingoBoingo: Don't know if they ever will

02:34:34 BingoBoingo: Connects on campus have yet to send the flag and since on every visit lab still intact I assume they aren't slacking

02:36:03 *: asciilifeform fucking hates slowaris

02:36:10 asciilifeform: the boxes were ok.

02:37:21 asciilifeform: the folks running ancient closed-source unixen today do so 'not from a good life'

02:37:46 asciilifeform: but because forced to on account of working for usg or having to use some likewise closed turdware (usually also because, ultimately, usg)

02:38:06 asciilifeform: or, i suppose, archaeologists

02:38:15 BingoBoingo: Thankfully other Unixen work on the boxes

02:38:24 asciilifeform: ^ vms, for instance, is an interesting os - conceptually, and i have it one one of my 'alpha'

02:39:14 asciilifeform: http://i.4cdn.org/g/1424118682210.png << l0lz

02:39:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vR2AvI )

02:39:38 asciilifeform: http://i.4cdn.org/g/1424118770173.png << m0ar

02:39:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vR2C6E )

02:40:50 BingoBoingo: Quest for "real-ish computer" which can handled contemporary amounts of RAM and HDD space is arduous search

02:40:56 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

02:41:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: realize, if you get off modern turdware (incl. graphical www), you almost certainly don't need so much as 1GB for anything

02:41:44 asciilifeform: unless you're into physics sims

02:42:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Blockchain parsing

02:42:23 asciilifeform: the entire ussr never had, quite likely, 1g of ram between it

02:42:57 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what do you need to do with the blockchain that can't be done 1G at a time ?

02:43:10 asciilifeform: (just picked this number more or less arbitrarily)

02:44:04 BingoBoingo: More RAM makes Electrum server more feasile. Not to run the server for the wallet mind you, but because of the queryable database of blockchain data.

02:44:25 decimation: "asciilifeform doesn't see the appeal of closed source unixen" << I see the appeal of actual people maintaining a unix, closed or open

02:44:40 Adlai: somehow git gets by without an in-memory index, i wonder how!

02:44:43 asciilifeform: slowaris is maintained somewhere ?

02:44:52 asciilifeform: or hpux ?

02:44:53 decimation: not anymore, but in its day it sorta was

02:44:58 BingoBoingo: Open Indiana et al

02:45:32 Adlai: ( `ls .git/objects` reveals how)

02:45:45 decimation: although the rumor I heard back then was that most of the 'smart guys' working on solaris were spending their working days trying to unravel the gordian knot of kernel locks

02:45:57 asciilifeform: while everyone knows the caveats of the 'million fly eyes', the concept of closed source os is really dead forever - as far as thinking folks are concerned

02:46:10 decimation: asciilifeform: also, the 'spiritual heir' of solaris is maintained by those 'joyent' people

02:46:16 asciilifeform: lol yes

02:46:16 BingoBoingo: Shame the solaris 10 with the SMF turd introduced was the only "open" one and likely inspired so many systemdevaintisms

02:46:43 asciilifeform: decimation: corpses don't get to decide what to be eaten by, ants, vultures, cannibals

02:46:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54942 @ 0.00043273 = 23.7751 BTC [-] {3}

02:48:07 decimation: asciilifeform: the concept of a closed design chip is dead forever too

02:48:11 decimation: doesn't stop it from being undead

02:48:54 BingoBoingo: <decimation> although the rumor I heard back then was that most of the 'smart guys' working on solaris were spending their working days trying to unravel the gordian knot of kernel locks << But as an Oracle turd they can now break whatever they want in the name of handling one database faster.

02:48:57 asciilifeform: until ic can be fabbed in a kitchen - it's alive

02:49:19 decimation: can fab a board full of 74xx logic :)

02:51:53 Vexual: Im not melting silcon in mine.

02:52:32 Vexual: Aluminum was bad enough

02:52:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So killed Dbus this weekend on my OpenBSD install. Only thing asking for DBUS when invoked is Emacs, works fine without DBUS though.

02:53:13 decimation: I'm surprised dbus comes with openbsd at all

02:53:26 BingoBoingo: decimation: Mtier and Gnome

02:54:38 decimation: ah so it's in a 'port'

02:54:40 BingoBoingo: Mtier = Golden toilet company that sells exportable installs of desktop systems for oil rigs et al makes Gnome a centerpiece of their OpenBSD desktop solution.

02:55:03 BingoBoingo: Mtier makes many of the OpenBSD port

02:55:05 BingoBoingo: s

02:55:15 BingoBoingo: so when they make ports, dbus

02:55:46 decimation: I don't get the general preference for gnome over kde

02:56:44 BingoBoingo: I don't understand either. XFCE straddles the line of minimum/maximum desktop I can tolerate given my small screen size and clumsy fingers keeping me off of leaner solution.

02:57:32 Vexual: smaller bubbles whip the cream

02:57:53 BingoBoingo: My interface requirements consist of works on 11.6" screen and useable past ETOH LD50

02:58:08 Vexual: Is that right bb nitrogen makes smaller bubbles?

02:59:09 BingoBoingo: Vexual: Nitrogen requires far stronger (more expensive) cans to contain same whipping.

02:59:16 BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`

02:59:59 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-02-2015#1021174 << how do we make it go down?

02:59:59 assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 17:43:06; mircea_popescu: i guess this drama's dried up, need to move on to something else to keep the btc price up.

03:00:40 BingoBoingo: And of all of the software I've set up on the OpenBSD install here fucking emacs is the only one that throws messages at the terminal when I invoke it because DBUS is dead.

03:03:27 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

03:05:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90639 @ 0.00044135 = 40.0035 BTC [+] {2}

03:06:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 231511 @ 0.00045892 = 106.245 BTC [+] {5}

03:07:19 mike_c: hm. is it kosher for two nicks in the wot to have the same gpg key?

03:07:22 BingoBoingo: Mega lol >> http://lukewolf.blogspot.com/2015/02/a-prediction-2020-year-of-pc-bsd-on.html

03:07:23 assbot: The Wolf's Den: A Prediction: 2020 the year of (PC-)BSD on the desktop ... ( http://bit.ly/1vR5FMb )

03:08:25 BingoBoingo: ^ For the people who have not suffered this PC-BSD is equivalent to a 90's era Winblows reskinning. Ubuntism brough to FreeBDSM.

03:09:19 Adlai: mike_c: i'd rephrase that as "is it kosher to associate a single wot node with multiple nicks" ie ratings to nicks sharing a gpg key should apply to both equally

03:12:10 nubbins`: !s pogo from:asciilifeform

03:12:11 assbot: 51 results for 'pogo from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo+from%3Aasciilifeform

03:14:08 nubbins`: asciilifeform what state's your beast in now?

03:14:18 Vexual: Does blockchain still dl from a single source?

03:14:26 nubbins`: afaik

03:15:18 mike_c: Adlai: yeah, but that's not how it's done. so it seems fishy to me.

03:16:05 Adlai: ;;google that's just the way it is

03:16:06 gribble: Bruce Hornsby & the Range - The Way It Is - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo; Tupac - Changes (That's Just The Way It Is) + Lyrics - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnwU2iMRUqA; That's Just the Way It Is - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_Just_the_Way_It_Is

03:16:44 *: Adlai has never heard of bruce hornsby before

03:17:22 mike_c: kakobrekla: any opinion?

03:17:30 Vexual: Just tupac?

03:17:50 mike_c: i thought fingerprint would/should be unique

03:18:00 nubbins`: heh

03:18:21 Vexual: Could perhaps

03:18:52 Adlai: let's take a step back. the wot should be about who trusts whom, and trust is verified on the basis of signatures. i see no reason why node identity should be based on anything other than signing keys.

03:19:43 Adlai: you can have a wot (and anything built on top, such as gossipd) without nicks entering the equation

03:19:46 mike_c: well, that's the pgp wot

03:19:47 BingoBoingo: <Adlai> let's take a step back. the wot should be about who trusts whom, and trust is verified on the basis of signatures. i see no reason why node identity should be based on anything other than signing keys. << limit in wetware when parsing single identity multiple nicks

03:20:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's an emacs-23 port, iirc

03:20:35 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: clean.

03:20:39 BingoBoingo: Ah

03:21:22 Adlai: let the user assign nicknames, let wot nodes publish a signed message of which nicks they use, let wot nodes produce signed lists of which nicks they trust as which nodes... endless possibilities can be built on top, but why make nicks part of the fundamental model? they're not first class citizens. keys are.

03:22:43 asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything

03:22:49 mike_c: because we know each other by nick?

03:22:57 mike_c: and are more likely to change keys than nicks

03:23:43 Adlai: "math is hard!"

03:26:36 Adlai: i guess the question is, what purpose does the wot serve? is it just a way of programming the congregation's robotic doormen, or is it something more?

03:26:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ^ specifically prohibited in the export control statute << except the us exports diddly squat. it imports everything

03:27:18 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: So Free world chip foundries are what, 5 to 20 years out? << about that.

03:27:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for extra lulz, the statute applies to u.s. subjects going off the reservation and working elsewhere

03:27:52 asciilifeform: just as much as to those inside the razor wire

03:27:55 mircea_popescu: yeah right.

03:27:59 asciilifeform: statutorily

03:28:03 asciilifeform: (as the tax code)

03:28:24 asciilifeform: in practice, naturally, 'not caught - not thief'

03:30:46 *: asciilifeform is asked re: chip fabs question with some regularity. is quite accustomed to explaining how it is in many ways a considerably trickier and more delicate affair than, say, a factory of atomic bombs

03:31:25 mircea_popescu: not really. it was a big deal for as long as miniaturization was going strong, 1950 - 2000

03:31:38 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, moore's dead, and the thing will suffer the exact fate of printing.

03:31:45 mircea_popescu: ubiquitous, cheap.

03:31:59 asciilifeform: refining and slicing Si boules is not getting cheaper

03:32:03 asciilifeform: nor is a sterile floor

03:32:13 asciilifeform: none of the relevant tech has changed an iota since day one

03:32:37 asciilifeform: wish it were otherwise, but 'wishes aren't horses'

03:32:59 Adlai: but there's an inflection point. the deskjet printer would have seemed equally wonderous to a (human) printer in 1700 and in 1850, despite the former being twice as far away

03:33:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same could have been said about printing, 1600 to 1800.

03:33:18 mircea_popescu: but then...

03:33:36 asciilifeform: printing was more or less the same from herr gutenberd right up to linotype

03:33:39 mircea_popescu: quite Adlai's point. for as long as there's refinement available, it goes one way

03:33:40 asciilifeform: *gutenberg

03:33:45 mircea_popescu: once the wall is hit, it goes the other way.

03:34:01 decimation: eh, I don't see how the tech is getting cheaper either

03:34:07 mircea_popescu: and electronics hit their wall, half a decade or so ago.

03:34:48 asciilifeform: the equivalent of a 'printer' for ic would be something like an ion beam gun station

03:34:57 asciilifeform: but sans the $maxint of high vacuum golden toilet

03:35:18 asciilifeform: i've some theoretical work, but it remains on paper

03:35:26 mircea_popescu: nah, say by 2030-2050 you will be able to buy one of today's ic printers in the size of a 3d printer

03:35:29 asciilifeform: there is also a titanic pile of usg grantsmanship on the subject

03:35:31 mircea_popescu: and for a comparable btc cost.

03:35:33 asciilifeform: (mostly safe to ignore)

03:35:55 decimation: how is the 'ic printer' gonna grow you a pure si substrate?

03:36:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: an fpga that isn't a usg-proprietary piece of shit would go a long way

03:36:06 asciilifeform: and is existing tech

03:36:14 mircea_popescu: how is the car gonna grow you distilled hydrocarbonds, decimation ?

03:36:26 mircea_popescu: you'll buy them at costco, like you buy smoked herring today.

03:36:38 decimation: in your porta-cleanroom?

03:36:44 mircea_popescu: yup.

03:36:46 Adlai: or like you buy PLA for your 3d printer

03:36:59 mircea_popescu: comes in a container, you hook it to the machine.

03:37:01 asciilifeform: i'll note that it is possible to use substrates other than si

03:37:06 asciilifeform: e.g., sapphire

03:37:11 asciilifeform: presently - platinum toilet

03:37:15 mircea_popescu: !up Jones4

03:37:18 asciilifeform: but in principle has advantage that you can -grow- a crystal

03:37:23 decimation: disappointingly my costco doesn't sell smoked herring

03:37:31 decimation: only shitty off-brand sardines

03:37:32 mircea_popescu: decimation what srsly ?!

03:37:41 mircea_popescu: i guess you'll prolly be left out of the future si trade too...

03:37:46 decimation: finding proper kippers is difficult in the us

03:37:55 mircea_popescu: ^ futurology right there.

03:38:09 asciilifeform: the hardest thing to score where i live is proper sprats

03:38:13 decimation: 'king oscar' for me

03:38:13 asciilifeform: but quite doable if you know where.

03:38:42 mircea_popescu: so, is the fraudsters server going to be closed down by the evil forces of "bitlove, llc" ? what's the crowd wisdom say ?

03:38:49 decimation: the median usian has a strange aversion to tinned fish of all kinds

03:39:03 mircea_popescu: by the way, i scored a major victory in the battle with culinary darkness.

03:39:13 mircea_popescu: salt pickles!

03:39:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48550 @ 0.00043969 = 21.3469 BTC [-]

03:39:50 decimation: asciilifeform: they sell sprats on amazon for $$$

03:39:56 decimation: aren't pickles already salt?

03:40:12 mircea_popescu: there's two ways to pickle : in vinegar and in salt.

03:40:26 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> decimation what srsly ?! << Pickled hering much more common is USia. We care to stock for our Joos but not eastern Europeans

03:40:29 mircea_popescu: the former's basically fast food. salt pickles are fermented.

03:40:44 decimation: interesting

03:40:48 mircea_popescu: decimation is not fro mthe us ?

03:40:51 asciilifeform: decimation: amazon !?!!

03:40:52 asciilifeform: lol!

03:41:01 decimation: I'm from the us

03:41:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: More RAM makes << there's a legitimate "keep blockchain on ramdisk" thing. sadly... it won't be feasible. it's luxury.

03:41:18 decimation: BingoBoingo: where do you find it? none of the groceries around here stock kippers

03:41:31 BingoBoingo: decimation: Of all places... Wal mart

03:41:59 BingoBoingo: decimation: Not proper mind you, but a tease.

03:42:05 decimation: asciilifeform: sure: http://www.amazon.com/Adro-Riga-Smoked-Sprats-5-6-Ounce/dp/B004H4SEZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424144408&sr=8-1&keywords=sprats

03:42:07 assbot: Amazon.com : Adro Riga Smoked Sprats, 5.6-Ounce (Pack of 12) : Packaged Meats And Seafoods : Grocery & Gourmet Food ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjR9Zc )

03:42:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: while everyone knows the caveats of the 'million fly eyes', the concept of closed source os is really dead forever << agreed.

03:42:23 asciilifeform: about 2x the cost of ordinary 'ethnic' grocers in wash.,d.c. area

03:42:46 decimation: asciilifeform: do you have a favorite brand

03:42:47 asciilifeform: incidentally you can get -proper- sprats even in d.c. city limits

03:42:56 asciilifeform: in, of all places, 'mozart' (german grocer)

03:43:09 asciilifeform: near gallery pl. metro stop.

03:43:19 asciilifeform: about four bux a tin

03:43:44 decimation: yeah I've been there

03:43:53 decimation: actually a sprat is the same thing as a 'brisling'

03:44:03 asciilifeform: decimation: brand << anything from riga. but beware fakes with 'synthetic smoke'

03:44:06 decimation: I eat those regularly, king oskar brand

03:44:14 asciilifeform: not certain if same thing

03:44:25 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_sprat << wiki thinks so

03:44:26 assbot: European sprat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjRk6T )

03:44:30 asciilifeform: i've not had all possible spart-alikes

03:44:36 asciilifeform: *sprat-

03:44:36 mircea_popescu: mike_c: hm. is it kosher for two nicks in the wot to have the same gpg key? << notrly. is this observable ?

03:44:57 decimation: the 'king oskars' have two layers of little fish packed in oil

03:45:04 decimation: but not smoked, I would like to try them smoked

03:45:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-02-2015#1000695

03:45:12 assbot: Logged on 01-02-2015 01:12:18; kakobrekla: because split personalities belong to #bitcoin-insane-asylum

03:46:26 cazalla: yall got any of dem rollmops?

03:46:39 mircea_popescu: "Consider this: In the past 10 years has the distribution you run changed significantly in what it offers over other distributions? I think you'll find the answer is largely no. I do have to give a shout out to openSUSE for the OBS, but otherwise I've used my desktop in the same exact way that I have always used it within the continuity of distribution X,Y, or Z since I started using them. Distributions simply aren't f

03:46:39 mircea_popescu: ocused on desktop features, they're leaving it up to the DEs to do so."

03:46:42 mircea_popescu: wait, this is a bad thing now ?

03:48:02 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Taged mega lol for a reason

03:48:27 *: asciilifeform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_sprat#mediaviewer/File:Sprattus_sprattus.jpg << salivating just looking at this

03:48:29 assbot: European sprat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjRFpU )

03:48:35 decimation: asciilifeform: me too

03:49:17 asciilifeform: !up Vexual

03:50:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00043969 = 4.5508 BTC [-]

03:50:20 Adlai: the more i think about it, the more it seems that nicks are a second layer on top of the wot, provided by specific wot nodes - either a centralized nick->node mapping like assbot, or individual gossipd configs

03:50:22 Adlai: maybe i should stop thinking

03:51:08 decimation: asciilifeform: http://static.squarespace.com/static/512d63fde4b0ad29483e68dd/t/52c2e34ee4b0dc7797cb11ed/1388503887705/KO2.jpg < king oskar 'brisling' sprat

03:51:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjRVW1 )

03:51:30 decimation: sometimes they sell at safeway

03:53:32 decimation: asciilifeform: did you know that the 'national archives' nearby your house contains microfiche of captured WWII nazi records?

03:53:50 asciilifeform: not surprised

03:53:52 asciilifeform: 'archives 2'

03:53:55 decimation: http://www.archives.gov/research/captured-german-records/

03:53:57 assbot: Captured German and Related Records on Microfilm ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjS9wk )

03:54:06 asciilifeform: good bit of nsa pile in there also, according to legend

03:54:16 decimation: usg has decided that it would be better to charge you $0.6 per page to copy

03:54:23 decimation: and $125 per microfiche copy

03:55:15 asciilifeform: would happily pay this for the nsa papers, but they are not (presently) listed for sale.

03:55:21 mircea_popescu: lol

03:55:33 decimation: "Records of the German Foreign Office Received by the Department of State. Microfilm Publication T120. 5,485 rolls. (Includes records of the German Foreign Office, 1867-1945, and records of the Reichs Chancellery, 1919-1945)." << $685k

03:55:38 mircea_popescu: pay, put online. total income ? 0.6 per page, 125 per film

03:55:40 decimation: Why not digitize?

03:55:50 mike_c: (1632,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1307807825,'chashew',1293858000,0),

03:55:50 mike_c: (1808,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1308068811,'bolzer',1293858000,0),

03:57:00 decimation: I guess $685k is 'note from stalin'

03:57:22 asciilifeform: a usg 700k quote magicks into $0 for the right folks, yes.

03:57:26 mircea_popescu: sooo weirdest thing you've ever seen ? http://38.media.tumblr.com/b7a8237ecb0b4d31b46cfdf254b03c5b/tumblr_mu6xwxDraP1sny350o4_400.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/e44a3d56567af39df11d0866b85d20ed/tumblr_mu6xwxDraP1sny350o2_400.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/1d70563d6f79e92a2115badd1e63d6ff/tumblr_mu6xwxDraP1sny350o5_400.gif

03:57:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjSsax )

03:57:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjSrn3 )

03:57:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjSsqW )

03:58:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what is remarkable in the above clips ?

03:58:35 mircea_popescu: who snorts cum ?!

03:58:45 asciilifeform: l0l

03:59:01 asciilifeform: assumed it was ordinary coke, and grainy photo

03:59:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50250 @ 0.00043969 = 22.0944 BTC [-]

03:59:30 mircea_popescu: looks kinda wet to me

03:59:38 *: BingoBoingo offers for people stuck in USia smelt from the great lakes as small inexpensive oilfish to play with by the pound

03:59:47 decimation: actually there's already a business where people 'resell' 'free' usg records - ancestry.com

04:00:50 decimation: mormons provide 'free' labor 'digitizing' ancient handwriting

04:01:03 decimation: so you can text-search census records

04:01:47 mike_c: mircea_popescu: two lines above are one example.

04:02:07 mike_c: dunno who chashew and bolzer are, but they have the same key.

04:02:08 mircea_popescu: da fuck is this bs.

04:02:30 mircea_popescu: well, im pretty sure assbot won't allow it for the future. i didn't know gribble did

04:02:42 mircea_popescu: nanotube ^ can two nicks have same gpg fingerprint ?

04:02:52 asciilifeform: http://www.archives.gov/research/captured-german-records/microfilm/m1106.pdf << interesting - trial of otto skorzeny

04:02:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FlfLrv )

04:02:58 BingoBoingo: http://drgrumpyinthehouse.blogspot.com/2015/02/skool-nerse-time.html

04:02:59 assbot: Doctor Grumpy in the House: Skool Nerse Time ... ( http://bit.ly/1FlfKnr )

04:03:05 asciilifeform: l33t35t german

04:03:34 decimation: asciilifeform: clearly what you need to do is fashion a tool to 'capture' the microfiche screen

04:04:28 asciilifeform: everybody who wants, is probably using pNohe as 'minox' already.

04:04:48 *: asciilifeform has never yet been to a library where patrons are arse-searched, but there's always a first

04:09:29 decimation: it's odd that google didn't see fit to send an intern or two over there to digitize what the national archives has

04:12:12 mircea_popescu: im sure that's not what's the impediment

04:14:40 mircea_popescu: ;;google fetlife butthurt

04:14:41 gribble: Butt Hurt Report Form - Scribd: https://it.scribd.com/doc/7771818/Butt-Hurt-Report-Form; Hurt Feelings Report - Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/doc/82744858/Hurt-Feelings-Report; How to make friends on FetLife for the hard of thinking - Not Just Bitchy: http://www.notjustbitchy.com/how-to-make-friends-on-fetlife-for-the-hard-of-thinking/

04:15:14 mircea_popescu: so distinct...

04:19:22 mircea_popescu: !up mmeyer

04:24:40 ben_vulpes: mmeyer, eh?

04:24:59 mmeyer: hi

04:26:03 mmeyer: quite in here

04:27:32 decimation: from whence do you hail?

04:27:50 ben_vulpes: <mmeyer> quite in here << you did make it, yes :P

04:28:42 mmeyer: I'm confused, new to irc

04:30:16 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

04:30:24 BingoBoingo: <mmeyer> I'm confused, new to irc << Many people are indeed new compared to IRC. Meat odometer just rolled over and yet IRC is still older than me

04:32:15 decimation: mmeyer: what made you want to join #bitcoin-assets? It's interesting to learn where folks come from.

04:32:41 mmeyer: I searched and it said good conversation in here, from MN/USA

04:32:49 mmeyer: also have some interest in bitcoin

04:33:57 decimation: ah, well this is the right place to learn

04:34:28 decimation: if you go to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com in your browser you can read the past logs of this channel - it is recommended reading

04:34:29 assbot: #bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1HCJTOI )

04:39:45 ben_vulpes: mmeyer: "it" << what, though?

04:40:04 ben_vulpes: these unqualified pronouns don't work too well

04:44:12 mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/05/the_wrong_lessons_of_iraq.html << this one's fucking exquisite.

04:44:13 assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Wrong Lessons Of Iraq ... ( http://bit.ly/1FlmQs8 )

04:44:17 BingoBoingo: Under 100,000 blocks left. OOM kill happened in the interim

04:46:04 mircea_popescu: "Here's an example I fear no one will understand. The Iranians took 15 British soldiers hostage. The soldiers surrendered without a fight (ironically, so as not to start an international incident), and then pretended to go along with the Iranians. They did the song and dance "we are bad, we are imperialists, Ahmadinejad is good, we're sorry, thanks for being so nice to us" and were eventually released. So I'm sure t

04:46:04 mircea_popescu: hose soldiers were thinking, "look, I know who I am, I know I'm not a coward, I'm not helping the Iranians, but I have to do whatever is necessary to get out of this mess." What they are saying is that they can declare who they are, and what they do has no impact on it. "I am a hero, regardless of how I act." That's the narcissist fallacy. Whatever they may think about themselves, the fact is that they did help the

04:46:05 mircea_popescu: Iranians, and they are not heroes. But I can see that it is ego protective, I can see why they might take this perspective."

04:46:08 mircea_popescu: so fucking on point it bleeds.

04:46:24 mircea_popescu: "Here's the part Americans can't get: why would Iran put them on TV when everyone is going to know it was forced? Unless you are saying that the Iranians, and only the Iranians, are so completely delusional that they actually believe the servicemen were thankful and apologetic, then this show had to appeal to some broader audience. Other people had to believe this was the real thing. Is it possible-- and I'm just

04:46:25 mircea_popescu: asking here-- that we are the only ones who don't believe these statements were meaningful?

04:46:25 mircea_popescu: In other words, is it possible that our enemies judge us by our actions, regardless of intent-- and if you support Ahmadenijad on TV, then that counts-- while we retreat into the narcissists' hideout of identity-as-declared, where any actions can be disavowed as "not who we are?""

04:46:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54234 @ 0.00043038 = 23.3412 BTC [-]

04:51:49 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> In other words, is it possible that our enemies judge us by our actions, regardless of intent-- and if you support Ahmadenijad on TV, then that counts-- while we retreat into the narcissists' hideout of identity-as-declared, where any actions can be disavowed as "not who we are?"" << AKA argument by "FYIAD"

04:53:48 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007159 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007161

04:53:48 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/glenn_reynolds.html << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that eve

04:53:48 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "

04:54:22 BingoBoingo: ;;ud fyiad

04:54:22 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FYIAD | Aug 26, 2007 ... Top Definition. FYIAD. Fuck You, I'm A Dragon Originated in some lame back-and -forth furry argument, but when you think about it, it's a good ...

04:54:59 mircea_popescu: do you know what this guy was saying in MAY 2007 ?

04:55:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70400 @ 0.00043969 = 30.9542 BTC [+]

04:55:10 mircea_popescu: But now things are different. Not since the 1980s, and before that never, has there been this much M&A activity, share buybacks and privatization. While this boosts share prices in the short term, as privateers bid up the price in a takeover, there's a huge downstream cost: the company is no longer public. You don't get to profit from it unless you work for it. Each privatized company, or the private equity firm

04:55:10 mircea_popescu: who owns it, becomes a little lord. You want money? They demand your service. It is the opposite of owning a stock, where you demand their service. It's more than just a concentration of wealth among the few. It is also a concentration of control, and, more importantly, risk. You may not be able to profit from it, but if something goes bad, for sure you'll be asked to pay for it.

04:55:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if metansa exists, that's why he disappeared : they hired him.

04:55:55 BingoBoingo: Didn't start reading him until fall 2008

04:56:28 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo quite exactly. "fuck you, i'm a dragon". "because i say so". you seen /search-and-destroy/ ?

04:57:02 BingoBoingo: I don't recall. I'm still deep in the libations that are getting me over the meat odometer rollover.

04:57:10 mircea_popescu: you absolutely gotta see this film.

04:57:16 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/search-and-destroy/

04:57:17 assbot: Search and Destroy pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FlpDBy )

04:57:19 mircea_popescu: and happy bday yo!

04:57:25 BingoBoingo: Ty

04:57:35 mircea_popescu: do they have cake delivery where you live ?

04:58:15 BingoBoingo: Not delivery. Aunt made a delicious monster of a chocolate on chocolate recursive cake.

04:58:48 BingoBoingo: Had beef tongue for dinner.

04:58:52 mircea_popescu: o hey! cool!

05:01:34 BingoBoingo: If there is a part of the cow that tastes more like beef than the tongue I have yet to meet it.

05:03:00 decimation: BingoBoingo: ever had beef (ox) tail soup?

05:03:57 BingoBoingo: Indeed, delicious. Oxtail is also good slow cooked on a kettle grill and finished in sauce a lot like people do with pork and brisket.

05:05:29 BingoBoingo: Brains and eggs I remember as being good, but since this continent has deer with CJD and the UK had mad cow, have to settle for making it with pork brains.

05:05:50 decimation: some folks think that there are beef cows with cjd too

05:05:55 decimation: in the us

05:06:11 BingoBoingo: I wouldn't doubt it.

05:06:41 decimation: https://www.prosper.com < lol silicon valley loan shark

05:06:43 assbot: Personal Loans and Online Investing - Peer to Peer Lending - Prosper ... ( http://bit.ly/1FlrCWu )

05:07:25 BingoBoingo: People catch Brucellosis in "Brucellosis Free" states. If I accept the meta-NSA exists its common name is most likely the United States Department of Agriculture.

05:11:41 ben_vulpes: now there's a great conspiraci(!) theory

05:12:45 BingoBoingo: Seriously

05:15:38 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

05:16:31 Adlai: "and many humans will find themselves the new horse: unemployable" - cgp grey

05:19:18 Vexual: I think if brussexels had a look at northern Australian, they would say 'don't bother'

05:20:33 Vexual: Jakarta bullocks at 2 / km2 is all youll ever do

05:21:57 Vexual: Peanuts failed and how will we get an inspector anywhere?

05:22:39 BingoBoingo: It's alright. The US peanut butter salmonella scare was traced back to birdshit in the peanut processing plant

05:25:43 Vexual: Fuck those peanuts

05:25:57 BingoBoingo: http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/liberty-justice/make-britain-safer-bring-back-handguns/

05:25:59 assbot: Make Britain safer: bring back handguns « Adam Smith Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/17k6AbY )

05:31:26 mircea_popescu: i remember the times i could safely eat oxtail soup

05:31:32 mircea_popescu: fucking idiot brits srsly.

05:35:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120300 @ 0.00043079 = 51.824 BTC [-] {3}

05:36:02 BingoBoingo: !up wolverine

05:36:06 BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski

05:36:15 pete_dushenski: why ty bb

05:37:01 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: and happy bday!

05:40:08 ben_vulpes: another amusing tidbit from apple's wholesale collapse in quality on the desktop: no longer does the right arrow in iToonz skip to the next track.

05:40:27 mircea_popescu: wht does it do ?

05:40:47 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Did Apple even release iTunes ever for Mac OS

05:40:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.0004398 = 36.2835 BTC [+] {2}

05:41:14 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: highlights the next album, displaying its tracklist.

05:41:34 ben_vulpes: oh wait

05:41:36 mircea_popescu: well i never used it, so dunno

05:41:45 ben_vulpes: if you switch to "songs" view then the right arrow does the expected thing

05:41:52 ben_vulpes: and the old ui returns, nearly unmolested

05:42:31 ben_vulpes: this is topologically identical to the "Surface" shitshow, where when the retarded windows touch ui gets in your way you can get rid of it and go back to classic windows, with which one interacts with a stylus.

05:42:35 ben_vulpes: baffling.

05:43:40 pete_dushenski: what itunes version ?

05:44:28 ben_vulpes: 12.0.1.26

05:44:31 ben_vulpes: whatever the fuck that means

05:44:37 ben_vulpes: http://www.goethe.de/ges/umw/prj/kuk/fot/roj/enindex.htm << apropos of nothing, really

05:44:38 assbot: goethe.de/climate - Gallery - Villar Rojas, Adrián - Goethe-Institut  ... ( http://bit.ly/17KAOGb )

05:44:49 pete_dushenski: doesn't mean much i suppose

05:44:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00044043 = 10.7024 BTC [+]

05:45:14 pete_dushenski: i have 11.0.1 on this machine and even it's far messier and more byzantine than the older versions i seem to recall

05:45:51 ben_vulpes: those early ipods were phenomenally well designed.

05:46:15 pete_dushenski: and they fetch a pretty penny now too

05:46:17 ben_vulpes: i used nearly every mpwhater whatever object during that time

05:46:19 ben_vulpes: aw, really?

05:46:25 ben_vulpes: i gave one away recently

05:46:29 pete_dushenski: oh ya

05:46:58 pete_dushenski: re goethe thing: "a dingo ate my baby" is the first thing that comes to mind

05:47:33 ben_vulpes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COLLECTORS-Apple-iPod-classic-2ND-Generation-MAC-10-GB-ORIGINAL-BOX-/181536114101?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a446545b5

05:47:37 assbot: RARE Collectors Apple iPod Classic 2nd Generation Mac 10 GB Original Box 718908423851 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/17k9Yna )

05:48:58 pete_dushenski: oof

05:49:08 pete_dushenski: ya, $600 for a used 1st gen 5gb

05:49:23 pete_dushenski: which i seem to recall being $500 in 2001 bucks

05:49:37 ben_vulpes: http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1353 << this page is actually omitting the best ipod that was ever released

05:49:38 assbot: Identifying iPod models - Apple Support ... ( http://bit.ly/17KBJGT )

05:49:48 pete_dushenski: so not exactly investment grade art

05:50:17 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: the best being ?

05:50:18 ben_vulpes: http://www.atpm.com/9.08/ipod.shtml << here we go

05:50:20 assbot: ATPM 9.08 - Review: iPod (30 GB) ... ( http://bit.ly/17KBNGD )

05:50:41 ben_vulpes: ah, no it's there

05:50:56 ben_vulpes: this was actually the best design they ever produced.

05:51:05 pete_dushenski: that was the first one i had too

05:51:11 ben_vulpes: the buttons were physically separated from the scroll wheel

05:51:20 ben_vulpes: glowed this beautiful neon orange.

05:51:28 ben_vulpes: and it was *fast*

05:51:31 ben_vulpes: had a great internal db.

05:51:45 mircea_popescu: The system is designed with simply one outcome in mind: keep the poor with high recidivism rates and minimal social resources in jail-- a sort of half-way house for the disenfranchised-- until you can't possibly justify it any longer, and then give them a quick trial, accept the guilty plea ("what guilty plea?") and sentence them to time served and probation-- where you can add further controls.

05:51:45 mircea_popescu: It's debatable whether keeping potential terrorists in Cuba is a good idea. But when the State starts using pyschiatry to manage their population... I know you think I am exaggerrating. I'll bet you're not poor.

05:52:20 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> those early ipods were phenomenally well designed. << yes. because they were built around exactly one core value. "what's that for ? fuck you, you're not putting that in here."

05:52:28 mircea_popescu: exactly opposite of systemd "doocracy"

05:53:11 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what, you think i don't get this?

05:53:18 ben_vulpes: apple only worked because there was one guy at the helm.

05:53:46 ben_vulpes: now ives is steering things and they're trumpeting their solar deals, working on 'watches' and spreading rumors about tesla acquisitions.

05:53:51 mircea_popescu: not just one guy. one guy who systematically hit everyone over the head with crazy ed's snippers encased in concrete

05:53:59 mircea_popescu: but yeah im sure YOU get it. still, a log's a log!

05:54:24 ben_vulpes: gotta leave something between the lines.

05:54:35 mircea_popescu: yes.

05:54:39 mircea_popescu: more lines.

05:55:01 ben_vulpes: which reminds me: http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/

05:55:01 assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/17KCIa1 )

05:55:09 cazalla: i opted for the creative jukebox.. what a piece of shit that was

05:55:25 ben_vulpes: HAH

05:55:26 pete_dushenski: lol

05:55:36 ben_vulpes: i'm in the top 12 for the past twelve months

05:55:39 ben_vulpes: twice!

05:55:51 ben_vulpes: cazalla: i had a rio riot

05:55:56 ben_vulpes: also had a creative jukebox

05:56:08 ben_vulpes: also had all the sony cd players that did mp3s before portable hdds were a thing

05:56:24 ben_vulpes: there was this hilarious embedded ram arms race

05:57:24 pete_dushenski: "Unraveling a mystery that eluded the researchers analyzing the highly advanced Equation Group the world learned about Monday, password crackers have deciphered a cryptographic hash buried in one of the hacking crew's exploits. It's Arabic for "unregistered." "

05:57:40 pete_dushenski: "Researchers for Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab spent more than two weeks trying to crack the MD5 hash using a computer that tried more than 300 billion plaintext guesses every second. After coming up empty-handed, they enlisted the help of password-cracking experts, both privately and on Twitter, in hopes they would do better. Password crackers Jens Steube and Philipp Schmidt spent only a few hours before figuring

05:57:40 pete_dushenski: out the plaintext behind the hash e6d290a03b70cfa5d4451da444bdea39 was غير مسجل, which is Arabic for "unregistered". The hex-encoded string for the same Arabic word is dbedd120e3d3cce1."

05:57:41 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell the_scourge hey ninjashogun managed to crap more lines into the log over a longer time than you. howzat feel?

05:57:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:58:06 pete_dushenski: ^somebody was watching team america re-runs while hacking

05:58:18 pete_dushenski: "dirka dirka mohamed jihad!"

05:59:16 pete_dushenski: that, or kaspersky needs to hire a few more people with brains

05:59:30 ben_vulpes: password attacks don't cross languages?

05:59:42 ben_vulpes: man security world must be even more esl than i was given to understand

05:59:45 pete_dushenski: which, given that kasp is sponsoring an f1 car is probably also true

06:00:00 ben_vulpes: dictionary* attacks i mean to say.

06:00:18 pete_dushenski: one would've hoped

06:00:33 pete_dushenski: but kasp is pretty big, and therefore one of there "rubber-stampers"

06:00:39 pete_dushenski: *these

06:00:52 pete_dushenski: they don't need to actually work

06:01:03 pete_dushenski: as alf would call it, it's "security theatre"

06:02:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77950 @ 0.00046409 = 36.1758 BTC [+] {3}

06:02:24 ben_vulpes: so the towelheads humilated kaspersky, sending him to twitter for help?

06:02:26 ben_vulpes: good job, boys.

06:05:11 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: What does 0.5.3.1 resource usage look like when synced?

06:05:12 pete_dushenski: http://www.kasperskymotorsport.com/fileadmin/content/images/slideshow/2015-scuderia-ferrari01.jpg << for motorsports fans, kasp logos can be seen on along the side and top of the front nosecone

06:05:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17kcCJO )

06:06:00 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: i'll let you know when i get there

06:06:24 ben_vulpes: !up pete_dushenski

06:06:31 ben_vulpes: do you even have your keys handy?

06:06:46 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Alright Just wondering, because my personal 0.7.2 WTF build should sync sometime next week at the latest

06:09:42 ben_vulpes: 0.7.2.W

06:10:20 ben_vulpes: i'm endeavoring to sync a portatronic build

06:10:48 ben_vulpes: and a more-or-less patched-up-to-date-with-mailing-list dynamically linked build

06:11:16 ben_vulpes: and my poor aws instance is laaaaaboring

06:11:57 ben_vulpes: qa for the foundation - what a gig

06:12:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00047349 = 14.1337 BTC [+] {2}

06:15:04 ben_vulpes: 'fyiad' << worst part about living here is the misery endured to scrape food credits together

06:16:59 BingoBoingo: Mega lol >> http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/02/st_louis_should_move_to_illinois_it_doesn_t_belong_in_missouri_anymore.html#

06:17:01 assbot: St. Louis should move to Illinois: It doesn’t belong in Missouri anymore. ... ( http://bit.ly/17kesKv )

06:30:07 ben_vulpes: split?

06:30:52 mircea_popescu: apparently.

06:32:12 mircea_popescu: "Researchers for Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab spent more than two weeks trying to crack the MD5"

06:32:26 mircea_popescu: dude srsly... ars presenting cracking of md5 as ahigh tech exploit ?

06:32:48 mircea_popescu: did they also catch some "russian sleeper agents" through the time honored spycraft of hussling random vacationers ?

06:33:28 pete_dushenski: fat hairy dude with speedo, big black sunglasses, and foreign accent must be russian spy!

06:33:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68076 @ 0.00047306 = 32.204 BTC [-]

06:33:50 mircea_popescu: ""Our idea was, if the first hash means 'unregistered' in English, would it be possible that the second hash means 'unregistered' as well, but in Arabic?" Steube said. "So we tried to download some Arabic expansion packs for [website commment app] vBulletin, which is the forum software that was attacked here.""

06:33:55 mircea_popescu: im so impressed.

06:34:22 pete_dushenski: "The Great Internet Power Grab: We’ve come a long way from Steve Jobs as ‘phone phreak’ to Tom Wheeler as ruler of the Internet." << should i know who tom wheeler is ? if he's someone, why isn't he here ?

06:34:45 mircea_popescu: by the way, as commenter points out. https://github.com/FetLife << ruby/mysql running on ubuntu.

06:34:47 assbot: FetLife · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/17khjTL )

06:34:51 mircea_popescu: that thing's epic.

06:35:07 pete_dushenski: i have no interest in paying for a wsj sub to see the rest of that article, however

06:35:35 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: He's the FCC commisioner

06:35:53 pete_dushenski: eh no wonder he's not here!

06:44:03 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

06:44:04 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 235.78, Best ask: 236.29, Bid-ask spread: 0.51000, Last trade: 236.32, 24 hour volume: 11264.62358106, 24 hour low: 231.44, 24 hour high: 241.23, 24 hour vwap: 236.465583945

07:10:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00044094 = 17.3289 BTC [-]

07:18:06 mircea_popescu: except "we" haven't come. THEY have gone

07:23:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.0004557 = 15.6761 BTC [+]

07:31:38 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 448 @ 0.00482207 = 2.1603 BTC [-]

07:35:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00044803 = 20.699 BTC [-]

07:46:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115750 @ 0.00043528 = 50.3837 BTC [-] {3}

07:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00044618 = 24.0937 BTC [+]

07:53:57 punkman: cazalla: a wiki of bitcoin companies, who was involved, when they launched/closed etc etc, edited and maintained by a select few << I pitched this idea a couple times, guess the time has come for it?

07:55:07 punkman: https://bitbucket.org/abfg/gildedtxt/src/601f1fddd338/exchanges/

07:55:09 assbot: abfg / gildedtxt / source / exchanges — Bitbucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1vB3TJk )

08:11:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59800 @ 0.00042875 = 25.6393 BTC [-]

08:48:52 punkman: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/526d498ae4b0a8c91472d7d7/t/54e0fd8ce4b05417978a5abb/1424031121397.jpg

08:48:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1v9LVmo )

08:49:54 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Avwh6CYAAl_aS.jpg

08:49:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1v9McWf )

08:50:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 406100 @ 0.00043313 = 175.8941 BTC [+] {6}

08:54:39 punkman: http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2015/02/the-research-mobile-internet-traffic.html

08:54:41 assbot: Positive Research Center: The research: Mobile Internet traffic hijacking via GTP and GRX ... ( http://bit.ly/1v9Nm4h )

09:13:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132052 @ 0.00042452 = 56.0587 BTC [-] {2}

09:27:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00042442 = 1.6552 BTC [-]

10:01:04 BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez

10:02:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32550 @ 0.00043523 = 14.1667 BTC [+]

10:04:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62546 @ 0.00042393 = 26.5151 BTC [-] {2}

10:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2404 @ 0.00042157 = 1.0135 BTC [-]

10:29:51 cazalla: punkman, oh nice, that'll be a help

10:30:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00043035 = 3.4643 BTC [+]

10:46:18 cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0xZG9XZ5w

10:46:19 assbot: Damo and Darren - 'Skatepark' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/17dx7YW )

10:55:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20013 @ 0.00042808 = 8.5672 BTC [-]

10:57:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65450 @ 0.00042071 = 27.5355 BTC [-] {2}

11:03:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23646 @ 0.00042043 = 9.9415 BTC [-]

11:04:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4245 @ 0.00042019 = 1.7837 BTC [-]

11:18:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54650 @ 0.00042018 = 22.9628 BTC [-] {2}

11:33:17 Adlai: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-02-2015#1021145 << incidentally, whippits are also sold in sex shops. surely the local systemd has monetized pleasure?

11:33:17 assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 17:35:59; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you don't say. try it while ejaculating suddenly sometime.

11:33:18 gribble: The operation succeeded.

11:38:11 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2015#1021140 < i know of a guy (elementary school classmate) who did it on a sloped road. lost a few front teeth.

11:38:11 assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 17:35:31; danielpbarron: maybe there's something to what MP is saying; I can get pretty high from holding my breath while standing up suddenly

11:40:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00042912 = 3.5188 BTC [+]

12:06:50 jurov: catching up with logs and on 'ic printer' ... perhaps fpga-like discs burnable with bluray are more feasible?

12:08:05 jurov: but I have no idea who can be motivated to develop this.. certainly not bezzle valley

12:12:08 jurov: they say bluray has pit size 150 nm, track pitch 320 nm.. allows for quite a density

12:26:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90532 @ 0.00041986 = 38.0108 BTC [-] {2}

12:42:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70250 @ 0.00042709 = 30.0031 BTC [+]

12:47:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85593 @ 0.00041967 = 35.9208 BTC [-] {2}

13:19:57 *: Adlai feels sorry for reference frames that classify sudden di[tz]zyness as "pretty high"

13:49:07 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/british-darkmarket-ricin-arrest/

13:49:07 assbot: British Darkmarket Ricin Arrest | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1vSqZRu )

14:01:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59600 @ 0.00042709 = 25.4546 BTC [+]

14:36:43 danielpbarron: height=194563 vs height=183404

14:36:59 danielpbarron: 5400 rpm drive is.. stupidly slow

14:37:16 danielpbarron: might only be useful for copying an already synced chain onto

14:37:27 danielpbarron: i'm sure once it's caught up i'll do fine

14:46:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86950 @ 0.00042361 = 36.8329 BTC [-] {2}

14:55:23 cazalla: damn susan sarandon is not a bad piece of ass in rocky horror, nothing on magenta but better than the pixelated c64 shit back in the day

15:02:56 chetty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956058/Russian-researchers-expose-breakthrough-U-S-spying-program.html

15:02:58 assbot: Russian researchers expose 'NSA's Secret Weapon' to spy on every computer on Earth | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/17lyV1I )

15:05:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00042306 = 13.2841 BTC [-]

15:06:20 lobbes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-02-2015#1021517 << Thanks! I'm starting to realize the value of it over the winshits and macshits; that being having control over your computing.

15:06:20 assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 23:48:30; mircea_popescu: lobbes wd.

15:06:36 lobbes: I have no idea what is running on my bill-gates machine, but I can find that answer in less than a second on my Debian VPS

15:09:12 lobbes: can't wait until I know what I'm doing enough to throw off the 'windows shackles' altogether

15:10:06 cazalla: lobbes, full blown aids

15:12:18 cazalla: now with linux i thought i was clean but turns out i was just hiv positive

15:12:54 jurov: lobbes it's matter of degrees, the more deeper you go, the less you think you know

15:14:06 mircea_popescu: lol i kept messaging assbit

15:14:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70100 @ 0.00042869 = 30.0512 BTC [+] {3}

15:14:28 mircea_popescu: lobbes yes. the problem with it is that it's addictive, and soon enough you'll be pretty disatisfied with the world in general.

15:16:52 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: soon enough you'll be pretty disatisfied with the world in general << i thought this was naturally a part of the aging process. i.e. "the old man".

15:17:49 cazalla: yeah, i hate everything, oh happy day i throw all these computers in the fkn bin

15:17:56 mircea_popescu: it's not part of the aging process, it's part of the society going to shit.

15:18:02 mircea_popescu: "progress" or w/e they call it.

15:18:40 jurov: this seems to be related with you avoiding stupid people around you

15:18:53 mircea_popescu: wtf was that uberridiculous site back in 2012, that people ended up signing up as other users etc ? bitdaytrade ?

15:19:14 cazalla: farmers gon' farm

15:19:20 jurov: when i chose not to avoid them, there's other kinds of frustration but not the "everything goes to shit" feeling

15:19:54 mircea_popescu: jurov right.

15:21:25 lobbes: jurov: lobbes it's matter of degrees, the more deeper you go, the less you think you know << yeah, that seems to be the theme of everything I learn. Which plays into the 'addiction' point MP made. "There's more to learn!"

15:22:11 lobbes: which seems to end with ultimate disatifaction lol

15:22:17 lobbes: such is life, eh?

15:22:37 cazalla: lobbes, that's an aussie saying ya know, ned kelly and all that

15:23:05 cazalla: bogans get it tatted across their chest or tramp stamped if woman

15:24:14 lobbes: cazalla: I'll admit I just googled that. I always thought it was of 'French origin'

15:24:30 lobbes: 'c'est la vie'

15:24:54 lobbes: I dig aussies, though, so I'll go with that origin

15:26:17 cazalla: well ya wanna be a true blue fair dinkum aussie cunt ya gotta get ya such is life tat to go with your southern cross tat

15:28:01 lobbes: cazalla, okay but tramp stamp or chest?

15:28:22 cazalla: depends if you're a bloke or sheila

15:29:11 lobbes: bloke, but if I ever get thrown in jail it would be almost poetic if I get butt-raped

15:29:41 cazalla: are you some type of shirt lifting poofter or wut

15:29:50 lobbes: ahaha

15:30:00 lobbes: naw I'm just fucked in the head

15:30:17 mircea_popescu: sheila ahaha.

15:30:34 thestringpuller: u wot m8?!?

15:31:37 cazalla: thestringpuller, u taking the piss mate? u having a go? u wanna go?

15:32:10 cazalla: tmw is such a write off after drinking this much

15:32:28 mircea_popescu: ;;ud tmw

15:32:29 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tmw | Shorthand for "Too Much Work". Used to describe situations or happenings that are just too much work to bother doing or participating. Also goes by TMW, or tee  ...

15:33:02 cazalla: tomorrow

15:33:07 cazalla: which is todaya

15:35:34 cazalla: this is one of those, i sorta know the answer to my question but im gonna ask as if im clueless anyway

15:36:18 mircea_popescu: i actually had no idea

15:37:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115450 @ 0.00042912 = 49.5419 BTC [+]

15:50:37 cazalla: 3am drunk cooking, what can i come up with!

15:51:32 cazalla: kebab be good though, remembers me about some doner discussion here at some point

15:51:53 cazalla: donair, that was it

15:51:59 cazalla: the fuck is a donair

16:01:12 *: lobbes has fuzzy memories being drunk in the DR; buying a kebab from some street vendor. Probably over-paid

16:04:53 cazalla: not sure you can over pay for a good kebab

16:19:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66105 @ 0.0004257 = 28.1409 BTC [-] {2}

16:20:49 thestringpuller: super cazalla

16:23:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96657 @ 0.00042306 = 40.8917 BTC [-]

16:42:40 asciilifeform: the sheer amount of smoke and misdirection being sprayed over the disk diddler article is epic.

16:43:41 asciilifeform: ranging from mere omission of the fact, certain as daylight, of it being a usg production (with no attempt whatsoever inside to disguise their characteristic turdware tradecraft, note)

16:43:59 asciilifeform: to misrepresentation of what the interesting part of the payload is

16:45:40 thestringpuller: what is the interesting part of the payload?

16:45:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79740 @ 0.00042306 = 33.7348 BTC [-]

16:45:46 asciilifeform: most egregiously in the english-speaking press: 'crank bait' sensationalism - 'every box on the planet is owned!' designed to chip away at the credibility of kaspersky

16:46:20 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1021563

16:46:20 assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 01:41:05; asciilifeform: hdd firmware << 1) snore. revealed definitively in doc. ~month ago, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-01-2015#981436 2) proven as concept in 'linux on hdd head controller' ~2 yrs ago 3) experimented with privately by numerous folks, incl. yours truly, for a few years before 4) mostly a snore, even the best hdd diddle falls down in a raid5 system

16:47:00 danielpbarron: i've seen such sensationalist headlines as "the only way to stop the NSA from spying on you is to smash your hard drive"

16:47:06 ben_vulpes: fukkin payroll

16:47:11 ben_vulpes: fukkin pay as you go taxes

16:47:25 ben_vulpes: fukkin cashflow

16:47:27 ben_vulpes: fukkin clients

16:47:31 ben_vulpes: fukkin fukkin fukkin

16:50:34 ben_vulpes: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-16/euro-area-finance-ministers-talks-with-greece-break-up-on-rift << grexit when

16:50:36 assbot: Greece's Talks With Euro-Area Finance Ministers Break Up - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1EK83n9 )

16:50:37 ben_vulpes: grexit nao?

16:54:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00042912 = 8.3893 BTC [+]

16:56:59 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 16.93457636 BTC. Current weight: 49,532.

16:57:00 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "LTC to fall below half a bitcent before March" http://bitbet.us/bet/1098/ Odds: 31(Y):69(N) by coin, 55(Y):45(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.50777265 BTC. Current weight: 7,697.

16:57:03 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before April 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1119/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.8001 BTC. Current weight: 93,885.

16:57:34 punkman: what, no grexit bitbet

17:03:13 punkman: oic two rejected grexit bets

17:09:00 punkman: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b9l-8zbkFmUJ:www.danielpipes.org/rr/2014-10-dabiq.228.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

17:09:01 assbot: BEFORE THE HOUR ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKema9 )

17:09:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00042912 = 9.741 BTC [+]

17:09:51 punkman: ^ from some ISIS magazine: "The revival of slavery before the hour"

17:10:50 mircea_popescu: is isis migrating towards some sort of millenarism ?

17:11:32 punkman: that's where they started isn't it

17:12:06 mircea_popescu: i thought they started more from jihadish ideas.

17:12:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.0916 = 1.0992 BTC [-] {2}

17:12:10 thestringpuller: fffff

17:12:39 thestringpuller: oops

17:12:49 punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah but the millenarian rhetoric was there from the beginning

17:14:02 punkman: "Musa Cerantonio, an Australian preacher reported to be one of the Islamic State’s most influential recruiters, believes it is foretold that the caliphate will sack Istanbul before it is beaten back by an army led by the anti-Messiah

17:14:04 punkman: , whose eventual death— when just a few thousand jihadists remain—will usher in the apocalypse."

17:14:46 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "CLAM to hit 0.015 or higher before March 3rd" http://bitbet.us/bet/1088/ Odds: 79(Y):21(N) by coin, 62(Y):38(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.53421 BTC. Current weight: 15,132.

17:16:57 ben_vulpes: punkman: links plz?

17:17:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.00042133 = 14.1988 BTC [-] {2}

17:17:29 punkman: ben_vulpes: for?

17:17:53 ben_vulpes: rejected grexit bets

17:18:03 ben_vulpes: nm nm

17:18:41 ben_vulpes: hm there's the "any exit

17:18:43 ben_vulpes: by april"

17:18:50 ben_vulpes: sorry for wacky posts, arms are jelly from pushups

17:19:07 mircea_popescu: punkman you will notice this guy is an australian preacher.

17:19:30 punkman: mircea_popescu: of course he is ;)

17:19:31 mircea_popescu: i have no wonderment for how anglos are reinterpreting arab ideas in their own framework (which, for this purpose, is strictly millenarism)

17:19:55 mircea_popescu: just, there's a difference between isis becoming so infested with westerners it starts thinking like them and isis simply being mistranslated.

17:23:08 mats: 01:41:05 asciilifeform: ... 2) proven as concept in 'linux on hdd head controller' ~2 yrs ago ... << link? a googling wasn't helpful

17:23:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, the misfortunate eu allies of the us are now getting in greece the argentine beauty come to roost.

17:23:25 mircea_popescu: should be interesting.

17:24:11 punkman: mats, this guy I think http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1

17:24:13 assbot: Sprites mods - Hard disk hacking - Intro ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKk0t4 )

17:30:32 mircea_popescu: in other news, the "toilet seat debate" has been resolved. http://38.media.tumblr.com/a3df8a95aba72f77c3dd84453d8e0201/tumblr_n4q32bciEb1st3pp0o1_400.gif

17:30:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKmasx )

17:32:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28300 @ 0.00042665 = 12.0742 BTC [+]

17:33:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51264 @ 0.00042912 = 21.9984 BTC [+]

17:37:35 punkman: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/web/4894818972.html

17:37:36 assbot: WEB DEVELOPER ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKomAg )

17:38:23 mircea_popescu: "Must multi task by helping answering phones, excel data upkeep etc.."

17:38:27 mircea_popescu: clearly.

17:39:19 mircea_popescu: "This position can be in house or freelance. Must be local to the area to discuss projects. " "we never heard of pgp, what is it, italian shoes ???"

17:39:42 mircea_popescu: holy shit wait, $12 an hour ?! in la ?

17:47:10 mircea_popescu: jurov: they say bluray has pit size 150 nm, track pitch 320 nm.. allows for quite a density << easier to do on the disk than on the ic, but you have a good point there.

17:47:30 mircea_popescu: i am certainly more interested in a "print your own chips" road to freedom than in the "print your own guns" approach.

17:47:44 mircea_popescu: for one thing, i was never short of guns when it actually came to guns to defend freedom.

17:47:55 mircea_popescu: usually one's short of gunmen.

17:48:30 mircea_popescu: !up wolverine

17:48:31 mircea_popescu: !up Xuthus

17:50:11 ben_vulpes: just the USian bias - herr presidente sez no guns, ergo it's impossible to get guns

17:50:40 ben_vulpes: this is ridiculous on the face of it, but young american men are more interested in solving simple nonexistent problems with tech than solving big complex hairy ones.

17:50:42 mircea_popescu: i guess. but this is a definite meritous future thing for s.nsa to pursue.

17:50:43 ben_vulpes: unsurprisingly.

17:50:54 mircea_popescu: hory shit you're so right im bashing you.

17:50:56 mircea_popescu: !b 5

17:50:57 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NPCGB7.txt )

17:51:32 ben_vulpes: stahp it hurts

17:51:59 ben_vulpes: from the piracy lulzmine: Patton's /Peeping Tom/ is nowhere to be found on the public trackers, yet trivially available on UToob

17:52:15 mircea_popescu: maybe iut just sucks ?

17:52:27 ben_vulpes: how would I know...

17:52:47 ben_vulpes: 'tisn't as though i ever had good taste in music beat into me.

17:53:03 mircea_popescu: it's not even worth stealing, yo.

17:53:05 mircea_popescu: gramps.

17:53:15 ben_vulpes: well and how would you know?

17:53:22 mircea_popescu: didn't you just say ?

17:53:38 ben_vulpes: no, i said i have no idea if it's any good.

17:53:45 ben_vulpes: i have no context or anything to judge music against.

17:53:47 mircea_popescu: is nowhere to be found on the public trackers <<

17:53:53 mircea_popescu: ergo, not worth stealing.

17:53:54 ben_vulpes: yet trivially available on UToob

17:54:01 mircea_popescu: that ain't stealing.

17:54:14 *: ben_vulpes cocks an eyebrow

17:54:28 ben_vulpes: nah man this goes back to why a btc torrent thinger isn't worthwhile

17:54:33 mircea_popescu: all these fucking hysterical jokes that are only funny to me

17:54:36 ben_vulpes: people copying content have no taste

17:54:41 ben_vulpes: that one was for you

17:54:51 ben_vulpes: i was hoping for a /mircea_popescu eyes a cockbrow

17:54:57 mircea_popescu: ahahaha oops

17:55:24 mircea_popescu: imagine if a dude had a thick fat unibrow

17:55:34 mircea_popescu: and his roommates kept drawing balls on one side.

17:55:53 ben_vulpes: perhaps next time i take a whack at my bush i'll sculpt it into a cockbrow

17:56:11 mircea_popescu: it's disconcerting to cocksuckers.

17:56:18 ben_vulpes: let 'em squirm

17:56:22 ben_vulpes: they do anyways

17:57:09 mircea_popescu: and now, voice rampage.

17:57:18 ben_vulpes: ratings season!

17:57:18 mircea_popescu: !v artilekt

17:57:18 assbot: Invalid verfication string.

17:57:24 mircea_popescu: !up artilekt

17:57:37 mircea_popescu: !up bertani

17:57:42 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMatt

17:57:46 mircea_popescu: !up chiral

17:57:48 mircea_popescu: !up cjc

17:57:56 mircea_popescu: !up CryptoGoon

17:57:59 mircea_popescu: !up d9b4bef9

17:58:06 PeterL: hello lurkers!

17:58:08 mircea_popescu: !up eric

17:58:14 mircea_popescu: !up evian11_____

17:58:16 mircea_popescu: !up felipelalli

17:58:22 ben_vulpes: such a cheery morning to you all!

17:58:25 mircea_popescu: !up gernika

17:58:30 mircea_popescu: !up hegemoOn

17:58:36 mircea_popescu: !up hguux__

17:58:40 mircea_popescu: !up guntha_`

17:58:46 mircea_popescu: !up hktud0

17:58:49 asciilifeform: chip fab << i've been doing some (mostly theoretical) work on the subject, for some years. it's a guilty pleasure of mine.

17:58:53 mircea_popescu: !up itkin

17:59:01 mircea_popescu: !up Jezzz

17:59:03 mircea_popescu: !up Jrum

17:59:07 mircea_popescu: !up kanzure

17:59:10 mircea_popescu: !up Keefe

17:59:13 mircea_popescu: !up knotwork

17:59:16 mircea_popescu: !up kushed

17:59:19 mircea_popescu: !up kuzetsa

17:59:20 PeterL: asciilifeform: are you setting up a clean room in your garage?

17:59:33 mircea_popescu: !up Lycerion

17:59:37 mircea_popescu: !up m4rCsi

17:59:45 Lycerion: ayyyy

17:59:47 mircea_popescu: shit im bored

18:00:05 PeterL: hello Lycerion, how are things?

18:00:09 lobbes: lol, there ought to be a '!up all' function

18:00:13 Xuthus: mircea_popescu, why don't you go and code something ?

18:00:23 ben_vulpes: yeah learn you a common lisp or something

18:00:26 ben_vulpes: BE USEFUL

18:00:27 mircea_popescu: lobbes nah. io should stop spamming. Xuthus i don't actually code worth a shit.

18:00:49 Lycerion: PeterL things are well, hooby is hoobin, life is good

18:00:57 ben_vulpes: ;;ud hooby

18:00:58 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hooby | (abstract noun or proper noun) A person, especially one not mentioned by name. Hooby doesn't have one. Who? Hooby! Hooby who? by krom23456 January ...

18:01:01 asciilifeform: PeterL: any fab process that requires clean room is ipso facto irrelevant to the question of 'home fab'

18:01:07 ben_vulpes: ^

18:01:17 ben_vulpes: "garbage fab"

18:01:17 mircea_popescu: it could be clean breadbox.

18:01:19 mircea_popescu: but not room

18:01:41 asciilifeform: clean football-sized compartment is difficult enough in jungle conditions

18:02:02 asciilifeform: ditto high vacuum

18:02:05 PeterL: how big is a chip fab clean room?

18:02:14 mircea_popescu: depends on how big the fab is

18:02:18 asciilifeform: PeterL: factory floor

18:02:19 ben_vulpes: 500 - whole buildings

18:02:51 mircea_popescu: the problem with clean is largely a matter of size. it's easier to keep a large space clean.

18:02:53 asciilifeform: the thing that absolutely must be understood by anyone with any inkling of an interest in the subject is

18:02:55 ben_vulpes: also, depends on the degree of cleanliness required.

18:02:55 mircea_popescu: proof of this being the cosmic space.

18:03:08 asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down'

18:03:11 asciilifeform: no good at all

18:03:17 asciilifeform: have to reinvent the entire stack.

18:03:20 mircea_popescu: no, im sure this is understood.

18:03:36 PeterL: need to reinvent it at a smaller, cheaper scale?

18:03:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the folks mentioning clean rooms show symptoms of not having understood

18:03:54 asciilifeform: PeterL: emphatically not. not 'smaller cheaper' what-they-do-now.

18:03:58 asciilifeform: entirely different process

18:04:18 mircea_popescu: basically this is quickly becoming a problem of logjammed. "we need a decent-er system design, to make oses on". "yes, for which we nbeed a new chip paradigm". "yes, which really needs better systems design for oses and such". "yes, which..."

18:04:26 asciilifeform: that would have considerably less in common with the existing one than 'cd-r burner' with pressed aluminum disks, or '3d printer' with injection mold press

18:05:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71500 @ 0.00042313 = 30.2538 BTC [-] {2}

18:05:06 mircea_popescu: ironically, it may actually have a lot in common with the cd-r burner.

18:05:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hypothetical chip fab experiment does not require new computer.

18:05:24 mircea_popescu: motivation to make it however, does.

18:05:25 asciilifeform: and yes, it would have some resemblance to cd-r

18:05:46 asciilifeform: but realize that cd-r 'cheats' by having existing guide marks

18:05:54 mircea_popescu: i wonder, and bear with my layered ignorance on all matters of import, but i wonder :

18:06:21 mircea_popescu: is there some way to make this actually BE junk ? like, for instance, make an item that prints logic gates on cds, old abandoned cds ?

18:06:25 PeterL: and cd-r moves basically one dimension

18:06:34 mircea_popescu: you can then make an item that looks sort-of like an 1990s "art" installation, except it does logic ?

18:06:55 mircea_popescu: as in, build it from garbage up, exactly how the current stack was built.

18:07:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's actually reminiscent of one idea i looked into - optical logic produced photographically via laser

18:07:25 mircea_popescu: aha!

18:07:53 mircea_popescu: basically, I want to play music ? i can now get a 5 x 6 sheet of polyester, glue cds on it printed with this thing, and plug it in.

18:08:05 mircea_popescu: it .. sort of... kinda plays derpy 8 bit mono something.

18:08:13 asciilifeform: but cd-r blanks ain't it.

18:08:25 asciilifeform: intrinsic spiral pattern in the whole shebang.

18:08:37 mircea_popescu: i just meant, use the items somehow.

18:08:44 asciilifeform: it isn't a universally-addressable polar coordinate laser cutter, if you were wondering.

18:08:46 mircea_popescu: it'd literally be a repurposing of garbage.

18:08:57 mircea_popescu: it isn't, but then again maybe it could be.

18:09:02 mircea_popescu: after all the disk is flat.

18:09:22 mircea_popescu: for that matter ... recall the discussions even here about the purely resisitive musicbox ?

18:09:51 asciilifeform: resistive ?

18:09:53 mircea_popescu: start it from something that's derpy but works, i say, rather than something that's clever, but doesn't.

18:10:13 asciilifeform: well no doubt

18:10:17 asciilifeform: but what was the music box ?

18:10:57 asciilifeform: and, related, historical,

18:11:00 asciilifeform: ;;google lightscribe

18:11:01 gribble: LightScribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightScribe; LightScribe direct disc labeling - Why buy HP?: http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/315116-0-0-225-121.html; Lightscribe Media - Direct Disc Labeling, Lightscribe Discs (DVDs ...: http://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/lightscribe/

18:12:03 mircea_popescu: !s resistor dac

18:12:04 assbot: 0 results for 'resistor dac' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=resistor+dac

18:12:08 asciilifeform: ^ one vendor sold cd-r drives (and disks for extra cost with specially-coated labels) that contained fw to translate raster to polar, and print stickers

18:12:08 mircea_popescu: o no fucking way

18:12:12 asciilifeform: !s covox

18:12:13 assbot: 4 results for 'covox' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=covox

18:12:13 mircea_popescu: this was discussed i swear

18:12:16 mircea_popescu: aok

18:12:17 asciilifeform: ^ there we go

18:12:20 asciilifeform: had to jog memory

18:13:20 mircea_popescu: the item in question, as kako points out, is still the shit. not because it plays the ghz&poettering game.

18:13:25 mircea_popescu: specifically because it doesn't.

18:13:41 asciilifeform: tempting example, but not a very good one - the basic idea of a dac hasn't changed

18:13:47 asciilifeform: since first one was built from resistors in the '30s

18:13:55 mircea_popescu: the basic idea of a computer ALSO hasn't changed.

18:15:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77835 @ 0.00041964 = 32.6627 BTC [-]

18:15:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: basic idea - sure

18:15:33 mircea_popescu: it's what you said.

18:16:06 mircea_popescu: in any case, strategically speaking, it will be a lot easier, cheaper and blood-economical to unseat the fiat atrocity supporting the welfare state by destroying the "industrial" paradigm.

18:16:19 mircea_popescu: but completely rather than just "progressively".

18:16:19 asciilifeform: but in practice, it has. i have a $$$$$ fpga board gathering dust because realized that it is impossible to implement ddr2 controller (and drive any available memory of reasonable density) without reversing the entire chip

18:16:32 mircea_popescu: why do you want ddr2 is the question ?

18:16:48 mircea_popescu: which is where it ties into "new os"

18:17:42 asciilifeform: i'd love to expunge -all- existing ic

18:18:04 asciilifeform: but eliminating stock ram is three or so notches of crackpottery above the rest of it, even.

18:18:07 mircea_popescu: well here's the thing : there's no way to expunge part of it.

18:18:10 mircea_popescu: if you do it, you do it all.

18:18:56 mircea_popescu: <assbot> 0 results for 'resistor dac' << you know this came to 0 because you had to ruin steming ? hm ?

18:19:07 mircea_popescu: what do you have to say for self nao alf!

18:19:11 asciilifeform: can still switch it on, iirc

18:19:17 mircea_popescu: yaya.

18:19:24 asciilifeform: and it'll return every single line ever logged, lol

18:19:32 mircea_popescu: lol

18:20:05 mircea_popescu: (i don't care either way, each works, but i was lulz'd at your militant stance)

18:20:33 asciilifeform: well literally 9 of 10 searches i ever did on that page returned garbage specifically because of stem

18:26:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: destroying the "industrial" paradigm << expand on this. recall also the thread where we discussed how pashtun blacksmiths can make kalash, yes they can, not not one of them can make a single 7.62x39 round from brass scrap

18:26:28 asciilifeform: much less refine brass

18:26:50 asciilifeform: - that - continues to happen in izhevsk

18:27:19 ben_vulpes: i recall a story from a stephenson book, about a machine that computed with chains run through computing boxes

18:27:31 ben_vulpes: as the chains moved through the boxes, the boxes flipped bits on each link

18:27:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: he had another book where computing happened by specially trained singers belting out gregorian-style chants

18:27:48 ben_vulpes: now, i beg pardon for my ignorance, but could not this model be adapted to the cd rw?

18:28:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the industrial paradigm is not any one particular thing, but the idea that the production of material artefacts is the result of a process not of a will.

18:28:07 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is called 'ladder logic' among factory automation folks

18:28:19 ben_vulpes: myes, i've been brutalized by it.

18:28:20 mircea_popescu: the traditional paradigm was artesanal - objects exists because someone willed them into existence.

18:28:25 mircea_popescu: gotta to revert to that.

18:28:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ultimately factory is an artifact of craftsmanship

18:28:46 asciilifeform: so in that sense craftsman never died.

18:28:58 mircea_popescu: in this sense your senator's also your representative.

18:29:03 asciilifeform: l0l

18:29:05 mircea_popescu: right.

18:29:58 mircea_popescu: assbot is pretty rugged isn't he.

18:29:59 mircea_popescu: cool.

18:31:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not a problem of technology asa much as ideology, you realise. currently, if you ask consumer why X item exists, it's because "that's what the factory makes". "and it has to be sold^H^H^H^H marketed to me". as opposed to, you know, because this is what I WANT.

18:31:48 asciilifeform: ah - that.

18:31:50 asciilifeform: well, yes.

18:31:55 asciilifeform: !s naggum binders

18:31:56 assbot: 2 results for 'naggum binders' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=naggum+binders

18:36:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101300 @ 0.00042921 = 43.479 BTC [+] {2}

18:37:39 felipelalli: if you will learn something, invest in Haskell or Scheme.

18:38:04 *: asciilifeform knows both quite well, does not use today

18:38:16 felipelalli: it's nice, isn't?

18:38:39 asciilifeform: what is ?

18:43:10 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/02/extinctextincterextinctest.html << orlol

18:43:11 assbot: ClubOrlov: Extinct—Extincter—Extinctest ... ( http://bit.ly/1vCC6Ix )

18:46:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118283 @ 0.00042976 = 50.8333 BTC [+]

18:51:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00042644 = 4.5842 BTC [-]

18:55:22 thestringpuller: http://nopiracy.org/ << this is a thing now

19:01:07 mircea_popescu: "1 in 5 pieces of software in the US are unlicensed. Be part of the solution." holy shit, that bad ?

19:01:32 mircea_popescu: considering another 2 in 5 exist on paper only, as some sort of scheme defrauding the public treasury,

19:01:44 punkman: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-February/054580.html

19:01:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1vCERJY )

19:01:47 mircea_popescu: what's left is essentially, "IP holders, and companies aspiring to be one day bought by ip holders"

19:01:53 punkman: "URGENT: RNG broken for last 4 months"

19:02:07 mircea_popescu: lol

19:03:18 mircea_popescu: great win for freebsd.

19:03:52 asciilifeform: the folks responsible - have names.

19:04:12 mod6: yikes

19:04:20 asciilifeform: for some reason we hardly ever hear the names

19:04:29 asciilifeform: and they tend to recurr

19:05:42 asciilifeform: but i really can't think of a good reason why anyone should be able to pull this shit twice.

19:05:47 mircea_popescu: gurney tho ?!

19:06:05 asciilifeform: exposed

19:06:06 asciilifeform: not authored

19:06:14 asciilifeform: i'm speaking of the authors.

19:06:46 punkman: where is the open source shame list

19:06:57 mircea_popescu: afaik he fucked it up.

19:07:12 mircea_popescu: punkman jurov's maintaining the pride list.

19:07:16 mircea_popescu: so, everywhere else.

19:07:55 punkman: no I mean we need a website with names and photos

19:07:57 mircea_popescu: also, apparently it's current, not stable.

19:08:14 mircea_popescu: so it's not ACTUALLY a big deal in any sense. you're not supposed to run experiments in production.

19:08:39 punkman: ah I assumed current meant stable

19:08:52 mod6: no -STABLE is stable

19:08:59 asciilifeform: a great many freebsd users, at least at one point, ran 'current'

19:09:02 mircea_popescu: yeah apparently lots of people did.

19:09:08 mod6: current = uber-crasher

19:09:15 mircea_popescu: yeah i dunno that you can do that today asciilifeform

19:09:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: freebsd's been a total loss since the llvm thing

19:09:34 asciilifeform: that was an enemy flag being hoisted

19:09:45 asciilifeform: surrounded by heads of the fort defenders

19:09:46 jurov: what pride list?

19:09:47 mod6: everytime i've ever followed -current i end up with a lot of panic!s

19:10:01 jurov: ;;ticker

19:10:02 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 243.77, Best ask: 244.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.73000, Last trade: 243.77, 24 hour volume: 12580.91158750, 24 hour low: 232.01, 24 hour high: 248.78, 24 hour vwap: 240.070244407

19:14:10 mod6: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/introduction.html << 1.8 & 1.9 outline what each -CURRENT & -STABLE are meant for. if anyone was still confused.

19:14:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A3ip1X )

19:16:11 mircea_popescu: jurov you know, the signed commits thing

19:16:14 mircea_popescu: !up rotarydialer

19:18:12 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-ii/

19:20:30 jurov: it's signed patches not commits and it's in disarray right now :(

19:21:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30761 @ 0.00042375 = 13.035 BTC [-]

19:21:34 jurov: have to make some dough first, then i can finally fix it

19:22:19 jurov: btw, anyone needs sysadmin? some deals fell through

19:35:53 mircea_popescu: jurov why not run a bitcoin host ? we kept wanting it

19:36:03 asciilifeform: ^

19:36:08 mircea_popescu: you defo have enough experience to handle it.

19:36:48 jurov: i have plenty experience with using VPSes, not with running them

19:37:01 mircea_popescu: weren't you running an open bash server at some point ?

19:38:14 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> jurov why not run a bitcoin host ? we kept wanting it << yeah!

19:39:20 jurov: okay i'll consider it

19:39:38 jurov: re: simpleshell.com everything in chroot was killed after 15 minutes, that's is quite a difference from permanent setup, and abuse reports were last blow

19:41:36 mircea_popescu: if you want, i can front you the capital to colo a few servers wherever you want, and work off that.

19:41:59 mircea_popescu: but then you gotta commit to make it a job. i think there's a pretty decent living in it, but whadda i know.

19:44:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117300 @ 0.00042759 = 50.1563 BTC [+] {2}

19:47:00 jurov: i see this is serious and there's interest. but the last obstacle is i must do this together with someone, it needs someone on duty 24hrs

19:47:24 thestringpuller: all humans must sleep

19:47:32 thestringpuller: what about Namworld?

19:48:12 jurov: namworld is not with bitvps anymore, and they're imo pretty lame

19:49:22 mike_c: you could hire a service to handle tier 1 monitoring and wake you up if there's an emergency.

19:50:30 asciilifeform: call ft meade, they'll work for phree

19:50:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00042976 = 9.2398 BTC [+]

19:50:56 mod6: lol

19:51:57 lobbes: I wouldn't add much value, but I'd work for free as an extra set of hands/eyes. You'd still need someone that knew what they were doing, of course. Plus I wouldn't be available 24/7 so maybe I'd be no use lol

19:52:17 lobbes: Sounds like a cool learning opportunity though

19:52:35 asciilifeform: ugh

19:52:48 asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, jurov isn't opening a clinic for the poor

19:52:54 asciilifeform: where medical students have 'learning opportunity'

19:53:02 asciilifeform: but rather something that has to actually work...

19:53:12 thestringpuller: asciilifeform's wrath bit flips on

19:53:36 jurov: lobbes if you want, i can give you simpleshell.com to learn it's low maintenance, but also low profit

19:54:00 jurov: (low 10's monthly from ads)

19:54:24 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i'm simply used to seeing that phrase as shorthand for 'it's ok for me to utterly fuck this up, right, because results couldn't possibly be important, aha?'

19:54:28 lobbes: asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, jurov isn't opening a clinic for the poor << Fair enough. Point taken

19:55:22 jurov: https://web.archive.org/web/20140207213824/http://simpleshell.com/ << twas this. clicking on the button gave you real shell

19:55:24 assbot: Free Linux shell access ... ( http://bit.ly/1A3opHP )

19:56:15 lobbes: jurov: thanks for the link. I got my own VPS to fuck up, though. ;)

19:57:41 jurov: and back to topic, currently i'm about reselling aws stuff, that's a start. i know some trustworthy people here that do vpses, i'll ask them for cooperation

20:00:59 asciilifeform: aws << damn

20:01:09 asciilifeform: phuctor, in particular, really wants a genuine machine

20:01:15 asciilifeform: (cpu-bound)

20:01:55 asciilifeform: afaik no one is offering - or -has ever- offered these - for btc...

20:03:20 danielpbarron: "Every word out of your and MP's mouths is disgusting. Your vision for Bitcoin is disgusting. Everything about you is disgusting. I can't wait for everyone decent to prove to you just how wrong you are about everything you've said in all the threads and blog posts about this fork." https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=941331.msg10493254#msg10493254

20:03:21 assbot: Bitcoin 20MB Fork ... ( http://bit.ly/1A3phwi )

20:04:42 asciilifeform: tilt lol

20:07:14 jurov: they do hae "dedicated" instances, but i'm not pressing the point

20:07:23 asciilifeform: ruinous cost

20:07:44 asciilifeform: and wtf, actual computers are extinct or what

20:07:47 mike_c: ruinous for 1. not ruinous for many.

20:08:15 mike_c: the cost for dedicated is amortized across all your dedicated instances

20:08:26 asciilifeform: well yes, but mine is not a high-budget operation

20:08:30 asciilifeform: i need precisely one box.

20:08:50 mike_c: well, that's why jurov resells them.

20:09:03 mike_c: (in the future)

20:09:05 asciilifeform: i would also like it to be a fucking -actual computer-

20:09:08 asciilifeform: not an aws chimera

20:10:15 mike_c: why? then when your actual hardware eats shit you're down.

20:10:32 jurov: virtual hardware can eat shit too

20:10:44 asciilifeform: ^

20:10:44 mike_c: and does all the time. and is replaced trivially

20:11:11 jurov: well, have you read what herbijudlestoids wrote?

20:11:18 jurov: it's all but trivial

20:11:25 asciilifeform: wai wat

20:11:26 mike_c: recently? don't think so.

20:11:55 jurov: or i miisunderstood what's he doing?

20:12:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65600 @ 0.00042375 = 27.798 BTC [-]

20:13:02 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-02-2015#1018043

20:13:02 assbot: Logged on 14-02-2015 04:02:23; herbijudlestoids: openstack based IaaS clouds

20:13:15 jurov: and lines below that

20:14:40 mike_c: hm, that seems different. enterprise cloud management.

20:15:00 mike_c: but the difficulty of IaaS is why reselling aws makes sense to me.

20:15:27 mike_c: if you buy a rack in a colo you'll never have the same kind of reliability

20:16:20 mike_c: look at the trouble mpex has had over the years.

20:16:29 jurov: you know, aws itself recommends "to get best reliability, have servers in multiple availabiltiy zones"

20:17:35 jurov: so, again, all but trivial stuff

20:17:50 mike_c: yes, i know. but i don't think you're disagreeing that colo will have lower reliability?

20:19:15 jurov: oh you're arguing reliability? i missed that

20:20:16 mike_c: i am arguing that the service will be more reliable and easier to run on aws than colo rack.

20:20:45 mike_c: it won't be cheaper. for the same reasons.

20:21:26 jurov: which service? if it's phuctor, i can imagine it relies on sole access to fast SSD storage.

20:21:40 jurov: this isn't something given on aws

20:21:52 mike_c: he said its cpu bound. but you can get IOPS provisioned on aws

20:22:10 mike_c: and the service is: computing power for btc

20:22:35 mike_c: or, vps for btc (dedicated instance coming soon)

20:22:45 asciilifeform: mike_c: i don't -want- aws

20:22:46 asciilifeform: of any kind

20:22:51 asciilifeform: i do not want it in the zoo,

20:22:55 asciilifeform: i do not want it with a gnu,

20:22:56 mike_c: mhm. for unspecified reasons

20:22:59 asciilifeform: i do not want it in a ham,

20:23:05 asciilifeform: i do not like it, sp4m i am

20:23:10 asciilifeform: to paraphrase the poet

20:23:23 mike_c: 1) you're lying because you are hosting nosuchlabs on it right now.

20:23:28 asciilifeform: i am!

20:23:31 asciilifeform: and don't like it

20:23:34 asciilifeform: would like to get off!

20:23:36 *: jurov facepalms

20:23:50 jurov: mike_c pls don't alienate my customers

20:23:53 mike_c: hehe

20:23:55 asciilifeform: no lie there - i told everyone it's languishing on aws.

20:24:03 jurov: if they know what they want, im not pressing it

20:24:12 asciilifeform: at no less than 30-50 usd/mo

20:24:15 asciilifeform: out of me lunch money

20:24:23 mike_c: don't listen to what they say. he is paying them, obviously it's the best option right now.

20:24:27 mike_c: customer's don't know what they want

20:24:51 jurov: l0l

20:25:02 asciilifeform: mike_c: worse than this. 1) i'm paying 2) not getting terribly much, have ~5mil keys that have not been dumped in on account of - elementarily - lack of cpu

20:25:05 mike_c: listen to what they do, not what they say. marketing 101.

20:25:46 mike_c: asciilifeform: so if you could get dedicated instance from jurovvps at non-ruinous cost this would be a good thing.

20:25:49 jurov: so you want me to sell him c3.something aws instance and lie to him it's physical?

20:25:59 asciilifeform: i've said it at least thrice, and will say a fourth time - all s.nsa expenses that are denominated in usd have been de-facto fronted by yours truly

20:26:07 asciilifeform: who has no safe way of converting so much as a bitcent to usd.

20:26:48 mike_c: jurov, no, don't lie. you could sell him exactly what he has now, but in btc, and he'd probably switch.

20:27:08 mike_c: down the road, with a bit of scale, you could sell him dedicated instance without ruinous one-time cost aws imposes

20:27:18 mike_c: and he'd buy that. he would still complain, but he'd pay.

20:28:07 jurov: at that price maybe a seat at my guerrilla home router.. but that one has only a celeron and main computer is too noisy to keep on all time

20:28:26 jurov: but i'll be asking around , we'll see

20:30:41 jurov: btw, dedi aws is not one-time cost. they ask $2/hour if *any* is running in the region

20:30:55 jurov: do your maffs.

20:31:22 mike_c: one-time not the right word. it's $2/hr if any, but not per-box.

20:31:53 mike_c: so if you resold x of them, you could charge $2 per hr / x.

20:32:10 jurov: and you're buying, like 10 of them?

20:32:19 jurov: or anyone here?

20:32:23 asciilifeform: for perspective,

20:32:24 mike_c: jurov is. and selling 1 to ascii, 1 to somebody else, etc.

20:32:35 asciilifeform: i'm renting a physical (yes) box for ~25 usd / mo

20:32:38 asciilifeform: for unrelated purpose

20:32:44 asciilifeform: no hidden costs

20:32:50 asciilifeform: no surcharges for bandwidth

20:32:51 asciilifeform: etc

20:32:55 mike_c: the hidden cost is when it eats shit.

20:33:01 jurov: was it ever ddosed?

20:33:14 mike_c: that too

20:33:24 asciilifeform: yes

20:33:26 asciilifeform: and remained standing

20:33:49 asciilifeform: the sheer audacity of the industry bamboozlement virtually everywhere - is astonishing

20:34:06 jurov: "remained standing" isn't hard. "they didn't kicked me" is.

20:34:17 asciilifeform: didn't kick, either

20:34:31 mike_c: did you get abuse reports? did they stand up to those?

20:34:38 asciilifeform: now that, didn't try

20:34:41 mike_c: (not sure if aws would either on that count..)

20:34:58 asciilifeform: for that, fix is generally easy, host in .ru

20:35:02 jurov: aws will forward them to yo

20:35:10 jurov: "explain or else"

20:35:12 asciilifeform: but this is not a problem i have had the honour of having

20:35:29 mike_c: jurov: but which way do they lean? to kick you or to tell complainer to piss off?

20:36:19 jurov: i didn't dare to find out just to keep a toy afloat

20:36:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17958 @ 0.00042976 = 7.7176 BTC [+]

20:37:33 kakobrekla: this is a classic, do it right with ev- or do it wrong

20:39:43 jurov: !s abuse from:jurov

20:39:44 assbot: 4 results for 'abuse from:jurov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=abuse+from%3Ajurov

20:40:12 jurov: nope. i'm certain i talked about it here before.

20:40:26 kakobrekla: prolly stemming issue

20:40:39 mike_c: !s abus* from:jurov

20:40:39 assbot: 7 results for 'abus* from:jurov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=abus%2A+from%3Ajurov

20:41:01 *: kakobrekla was jus trollin

20:41:08 mike_c: :)

20:41:19 mike_c: kakobrekla: did you have any thoughts/opinions on wot dupe key issue?

20:41:48 kakobrekla: you want dupe keys?

20:41:56 mike_c: i want there not to be dupe keys.

20:42:01 mike_c: but there are.

20:42:08 kakobrekla: there are?

20:42:32 mike_c: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1021889

20:42:32 assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 03:55:50; mike_c: (1632,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1307807825,'chashew',1293858000,0),

20:42:47 kakobrekla: maybe imported from gribble

20:43:30 mike_c: i'd like to have unique constraint on fingerprint. maybe boot the offending nicks from the db?

20:44:14 kakobrekla: this takes us another step further away from a potential cross sync doesnt it

20:44:27 mike_c: ugh. perhaps.

20:45:32 danielpbarron: SetBestChain: 1 of last 100 blocks above version 2 << anyone else seeing this in their .bitcoin/debug.log ? does it have to do with 0.10 coming out?

20:49:20 punkman: blocks version 3 now

20:50:14 danielpbarron: well.. 1 in 100 at least

20:51:02 punkman: oh and they are already talking about version 4

20:51:55 danielpbarron: bu-but.. the forum poll said it had 60% support!? how can this 1% be?

20:52:58 asciilifeform: axe-time, sword-time, coming closer.

20:53:08 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/sooo-fetlife-is-butthurt/

20:53:09 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/this-is-why-medicine-is-not-a-liberal-profession-but-a-servile-career/

20:53:19 punkman: well v3 brings strict signature format, not such a bad thing

20:53:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00042659 = 6.9321 BTC [-]

20:53:54 asciilifeform: punkman: not bad thing if -we- do it

20:54:01 asciilifeform: if phoundation does it - cure for cancer is bad thing.

20:54:07 asciilifeform: ipso facto.

21:01:26 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i prefer hammer time

21:31:18 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/v2.log.txt << it looks like the "version 2" thing got up to 5% of the hashrate and then dropped down to 1% over the course of the last week or so

21:31:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AiV4Iq )

21:33:01 asciilifeform: 'Blocks will be stored on disk out of order (in the order they are received, really), which makes it incompatible with some tools or other programs. Reindexing using earlier versions will also not work anymore as a result of this. The block index database will now hold headers for which no block is stored on disk, which earlier versions won?t support.'

21:33:06 asciilifeform: ^ shitgnomism without limit

21:34:56 danielpbarron: also, the links to the public log from s.b-a.link add an extra unnecessary '/' in the root directory

21:35:08 danielpbarron: link still works

21:35:19 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-ii/

21:37:11 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: holy fuck this thing completely fucks up the blockchain. (0.10)

21:37:48 thestringpuller: this box will need nuke to cleanse :(

21:39:07 asciilifeform: 'be smart - don't start'

21:40:39 thestringpuller: the power rangers have outdone themselves this time...

21:42:00 mod6: It's a shit-blizzard, Randy.

21:42:22 thestringpuller: ^-- this is great description

21:43:20 thestringpuller: Bitcoin Phoundation Client is as if Ricky wrote it.

21:50:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40700 @ 0.00042659 = 17.3622 BTC [-]

21:56:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105069 @ 0.00043021 = 45.2017 BTC [+] {3}

22:06:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156700 @ 0.00043403 = 68.0125 BTC [+] {2}

22:08:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74809 @ 0.00042659 = 31.9128 BTC [-]

22:11:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127410 @ 0.00043522 = 55.4514 BTC [+] {3}

22:13:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40590 @ 0.00043714 = 17.7435 BTC [+] {2}

22:22:26 punkman: http://longmountaingeneralstore.com/images/products/detail/03415571.jpg

22:22:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1L9N40Z )

22:25:24 lobbes: !rate jurov 1 Letting me derp about to get http://simpleshell.com/ back up and running

22:25:24 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a433a6dc63a3e33a

22:25:25 assbot: SimpleShell ... ( http://bit.ly/1L9NBjH )

22:32:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27157 @ 0.00043735 = 11.8771 BTC [+]

22:43:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63550 @ 0.0004339 = 27.5743 BTC [-]

22:46:43 asciilifeform: in other news

22:46:52 asciilifeform: i managed to order a couple of boards from that weirdo board house

22:47:23 asciilifeform: costing almost exactly their weight in gold

22:47:28 asciilifeform: and with >2wk lead time

22:47:52 asciilifeform: curious if what arrives, actually works

22:48:30 asciilifeform: (these were rng boards, which are analogue devices and for which i have means of testing conformance to spec)

22:50:11 asciilifeform: the shop is a very new one ('macrofab') and their ordering gizmo is buggy as all hell

22:50:20 asciilifeform: but finally agreed to take the money...

22:52:31 Adlai: "Snapchat seeks new funding at up to $19 billion valuation" ie, "one interchangeable centralized messaging service butthurt over inferior valuation, seeks to call and raise"

22:57:22 thestringpuller: LOL

22:57:24 danielpbarron: !up hdbuck

22:57:28 thestringpuller: They need more mone already?!?!?

22:58:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.0004339 = 2.0827 BTC [-]

23:00:06 Adlai: gotta push the $ in $napcash

23:00:47 danielpbarron: hdbuck, nice forum post :D

23:07:55 asciilifeform: in yet unrelated, yet other news,

23:08:05 asciilifeform: gnat-4.3.5 is a working gentoo ebuild

23:08:17 asciilifeform: (gnat-gcc-4.3.5)

23:09:21 mircea_popescu: cool

23:13:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00042902 = 15.4876 BTC [-]

23:17:05 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla for your qntrian consideration: https://dpaste.de/TXNN/raw

23:17:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A3TzyJ )

23:17:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:17:16 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo too ^

23:17:58 asciilifeform: (for folks following the gnat thread, http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html )

23:18:00 assbot: Who's Using Ada? ... ( http://bit.ly/1A3THyf )

23:24:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3000 @ 0.00077898 = 2.3369 BTC [-] {5}

23:26:19 pete_dushenski: shkoopaloop: http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/17/the-fable-of-willful-ignorance/

23:26:20 assbot: The fable of willful ignorance. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1yTS2Gz )

23:26:45 pete_dushenski: ^featuring the late great mike hearn

23:27:45 mircea_popescu: heh okat

23:29:35 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla i forgot a title! please to consider "CAVIRTEX, the biggest Bitcoin exchange in Canada, closes doors out of embarrassment "

23:29:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:30:29 jurov: pete_dushenski: did you mention how many bitcoins(from IPO) have they walked away with?

23:30:38 pete_dushenski: yup

23:30:40 pete_dushenski: 4k

23:32:10 pete_dushenski: though they apparently "intend" to "communicate" with "loyal shareholders"

23:32:30 pete_dushenski: as if any of those words were descriptive or actionable

23:32:38 pete_dushenski: but hey, gotta pretend!

23:32:43 thestringpuller: oh mike hearn is undead too?

23:32:59 pete_dushenski: mr. heartbleed ?

23:33:02 pete_dushenski: oh most certainly

23:33:28 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i'm renting a physical (yes) box for ~25 usd / mo << wherewherewhere

23:33:34 mircea_popescu: lmao

23:35:17 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'corenetworks'

23:35:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not the best shop in the world, but doesn't suck donkey balls in exactly the way most of'em do

23:35:47 ben_vulpes: waaaaa

23:36:25 ben_vulpes: <3

23:36:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11441 @ 0.00042659 = 4.8806 BTC [-]

23:37:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37073 @ 0.00042375 = 15.7097 BTC [-]

23:42:05 Adlai: asciilifeform: which concern is (yes) meant to answer?

23:42:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: in what interesting and special ways *does* it suck?

23:42:29 asciilifeform: Adlai: wai wat

23:43:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: generally, you get what you pay for and 'tanstaafl.' the 25 usd box (if they've any left) won't be a 64-core pleasureopteron

23:43:17 Adlai: "i'm renting a physical *(yes)* box" <- as in, "have i visited the box personally and confirmed that it occupies the same reality as me? _yes_"

23:43:40 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i did learn how to read a datasheet in the mines.

23:43:59 ben_vulpes: just 'cause this one has css doesn't change the selection process.

23:44:09 asciilifeform: Adlai: if it's a vm, it passes all known tests for physicality (incl. timing) and the hypothetical fakers should not settle for the small change of running a hosting co., but go into malware

23:44:16 ben_vulpes: ty nevertheless

23:45:07 Adlai: asciilifeform: ok, $25/mo was seeming awfully cheap for a datacenter where customers visit their inmates

23:45:27 asciilifeform: now, despite fact that 'you get what you pay,' the sc4mz0rz who try to herd common folks into 'enterprisey' golden toilet service contracts are still scum

23:46:04 asciilifeform: but they've largely succeeded in destroying the 'golden median' between goldentoilet and vm crapola

23:46:09 nanotube: <mircea_popescu> nanotube ^ can two nicks have same gpg fingerprint ? <- nope, gribble checks upon registration if the key is already in use.

23:46:40 *: Adlai theoretically should migrate scalpl to somesuch bare minimum hosting... but the current box hasn't broken yet, so there's nothing to fix!

23:46:46 asciilifeform: that being, modest 'grey haired' boxes (as old as p3) with a modest mirrored raid, mechanical disks, half a gb of ram

23:46:55 Adlai: half a gb!

23:46:59 asciilifeform: what.

23:47:18 thestringpuller: that used to be a lot back in da day

23:47:27 asciilifeform: unless you're in the physics model business, that's -still- enough for any sane application

23:47:29 Adlai: it's enough for my development bots

23:47:30 Adlai: yep

23:48:25 mircea_popescu: nanotube well somehow mike_c found a case.

23:48:30 asciilifeform: Adlai: boxes that -i personally- could visit where i live start around ~1k usd/mo

23:48:36 asciilifeform: at the lowest possible end.

23:48:38 Adlai: http://i.imgur.com/7Hl2wBb.png

23:48:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AC8gv4 )

23:48:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1021889

23:48:55 assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 03:55:50; mike_c: (1632,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1307807825,'chashew',1293858000,0),

23:49:11 asciilifeform: Adlai: how come you don't use 'save-lisp-and-die' ?

23:50:16 Adlai: some mix of: lazyness, the desire to periodically load my code into a fresh image, and ansi cl portability

23:51:15 asciilifeform: also why exactly are the separate instances running as separate unix processes

23:51:20 asciilifeform: (rather than sbcl threads)

23:51:42 asciilifeform: sbcl supports proper (native) threading for ages now, iirc

23:51:45 Adlai: "Tasks: 27, 90 thr"

23:52:14 asciilifeform: that doesn't answer why it needs >1 sbcl running

23:53:34 Adlai: it's 3 images for 4 bots, the two on the same exchange share an image; it's currently *possible* to run multiple on multiple exchanges from the same image, see 'lazyness etc'

23:53:58 Adlai: also nice to have some level of isolation if i royally screw up one image

23:56:38 Adlai: swap is there as a failsafe, it ran just fine 101 days without it, but i'd rather not take chances if things go crazy while i'm asleep