home | log | search | bash |


   

Transcript for 18-01-2014, 728 lines:

00:09:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13308 @ 0.00085035 = 11.3165 BTC [+]

00:11:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00084798 = 25.1002 BTC [-]

00:21:38 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 2250 @ 0.00195527 = 4.3994 BTC [+] {2}

00:22:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00084798 = 13.6525 BTC [-]

00:22:39 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 200 @ 0.0019975 = 0.3995 BTC [+]

00:31:56 jurov: ;;calc 1/0.0019975

00:31:57 gribble: 500.625782228

00:32:40 jurov: ;;calc 1/0.00175

00:32:40 gribble: 571.428571429

00:32:58 jurov: so bearish

00:34:46 KRS1: why are markets this way? because it rose up so quick?

00:35:00 KRS1: seems there has been good news lately..idk

00:35:24 kakobrekla: ;;bc,convert eur

00:35:25 gribble: 1 BTC = 906.625 USD = 669.7238875 eur

00:36:37 jurov: ;;ticker --last --currency eur --market all

00:36:46 gribble: MtGox BTCEUR last: 658.33, vol: 1386.72019629 | Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 592.444787, vol: 16631.24159665 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 597.99996, vol: 398.29529 | CampBX BTCEUR last: 590.96, vol: 163.33309995 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 599.238717, vol: 4465.72000000 | Volume-weighted last average: 597.811355208

00:37:35 KRS1: i dont think there is anything to blame for the bearish markets..perhaps people are just wanting to sell after the recent run up.

00:39:32 jurov: it's going for a week already

00:40:14 mircea_popescu: maybe btc is actually pricing the eur/usd pair better than the fiat markets ?

00:40:34 mircea_popescu: ie, not bearish on btc, bullish on eur ?

00:41:06 KRS1: interesting..hmm.

00:41:11 kakobrekla: the differences there are nothing compared to btc

00:41:59 kakobrekla: volatility to be exact

00:42:11 mircea_popescu: sure, but the thing is... a triangle is a triangle. you never know which si the wrong side.

00:43:03 kakobrekla: if you have a big exposure to btc you can not possibly whine about a tiny eur usd difference

00:43:50 KRS1: nov btc was around $500 this is probably just a correction

00:44:08 kakobrekla: it would make sense to make btc of eurusd like panacea does

00:44:15 kakobrekla: but i do not think this is the case here

00:51:08 pankkake: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/01/16/the-feds-are-ready-to-sell-the-silk-road-bitcoin-kind-of/ maybe?

00:51:08 ozbot: The Feds Are Ready To Sell $25 Million of Bitcoin Seized From The Silk Road - Forbes

00:52:37 kakobrekla: those will be auctioned off

00:52:42 kakobrekla: i bet there are buyers waiting.

00:53:23 pankkake: buyers that might buy less from the usual exchanges, then

00:53:43 pizzaman1337: it seems to be scaring people at least

00:53:45 kakobrekla: i doubt it

00:53:55 kakobrekla: this is not for regular folks

00:57:59 Apocalyptic: <kakobrekla> this is not for regular folks // +1

00:58:03 jurov: no i think it will be buyers who don't like these play exchanges

00:58:49 jurov: banksters must be pretty scared of how gox and their ilk handles stuff

00:59:10 pankkake: that's understandable, but I would be surprised if it had no influence

00:59:49 Apocalyptic: may be a good way for institutional players to get some coins without wreaking the exchange price

01:00:14 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you can participate in a public auction, sure, why not

01:00:21 pankkake: doing it outside of exchanges is pretty much the only way

01:00:57 pankkake: but they might be buying already; maybe they buy from bitpay or stuff?

01:02:30 KRS1: oh wow ebay allowing virt currency sales/trading by feb.

01:02:39 pankkake: reliable source?

01:02:51 KRS1: is coindesk reliable?

01:02:53 kakobrekla: even if its public, regular folks dont buy such quantities of coin at once

01:02:55 KRS1: idk

01:02:55 KRS1: http://www.coindesk.com/ebay-uk-virtual-currency-february/

01:03:10 pankkake: lol, so they are adding a category

01:03:21 KRS1: its certainly not bad news

01:03:25 mircea_popescu: coindesk is not very reliable, but then again ebay is in fact going to bow to virtuals.

01:03:28 pankkake: nothing really changing from what is already there really

01:03:35 pankkake: at least it means they won't ban it

01:04:16 KRS1: perhaps more people will at least be exposed to it if they havent already.

01:05:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 352 @ 0.0008899 = 0.3132 BTC [-] {3}

01:08:59 mircea_popescu: i think by now pretty much anyone alive has been so exposed.

01:09:20 mircea_popescu: the btc rift guild is like 500 people strong, maybe half actually came from fraudsters, the rest just, randomly, from in game

01:09:26 mircea_popescu: but anyone i ever talked to knows what btc is

01:09:36 pankkake: gamers know what is bitcoin

01:09:42 pankkake: no real surprise

01:10:00 pankkake: ebay is a slow, bulky, money hungry monster. don't think they'll have bitcoin as a payment anytime soon

01:11:00 mircea_popescu: thge funny think is that we did have the opportunity to crush ebay

01:11:06 mircea_popescu: except we didn't have the talent to do it

01:11:08 mircea_popescu: and so... it survives.

01:11:12 pankkake: did?

01:12:30 mircea_popescu: well, the window is closing.

01:12:41 pankkake: why? :(

01:13:45 mircea_popescu: well that's what windows do lol

01:14:02 pankkake: so it's closing because it's closing

01:14:13 pankkake: ebay is good because you are pretty sure you can sell fast at a good price

01:14:19 kakobrekla: not, its closing because its a window.

01:14:31 pankkake: why is it a window?

01:14:40 pankkake: but what if it was painless to list on both?

01:15:14 mircea_popescu: pankkake well, because time is going by

01:19:06 pankkake: that's not very helpful

01:19:19 pankkake: "Havelock is where the future of bitcoin is being made"

01:19:23 jurov: bitmit was something, but was relentlessly driven to ground

01:19:50 jurov: and no significant contender appeared

01:19:56 pankkake: yet!

01:21:39 kakobrekla: bitmit wasnt something.

01:22:23 pankkake: it was mostly left to rot

01:23:03 pankkake: http://divergentdave.github.io/nsa-o-matic/

01:23:29 ozbot: NSA-O-Matic

01:24:24 mircea_popescu: jurov actually the dread pirate guy was a worse threat.

01:24:33 mircea_popescu: pankkake you gotta be kidding me ? what's that ?

01:25:03 kakobrekla: lol

01:25:14 kakobrekla: mp's first time on the internet.

01:27:09 mircea_popescu: wut wut

01:28:18 kakobrekla: refresh taht page a couple of times.

01:28:48 kakobrekla: randomized bullshit-

01:28:52 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i meant the havelock quote.

01:28:58 kakobrekla: h.

01:28:59 kakobrekla: ah

01:29:11 kakobrekla: nvm then

01:29:45 pankkake: ooh

01:29:49 mircea_popescu: which sounded to me like an incredibly lame mp-wannabe moment.

01:30:16 pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=419654.0 another thread made of lols

01:30:18 ozbot: Cryptostocks Turnaround

01:30:36 mircea_popescu: lol

01:30:58 mircea_popescu: most airplanes crashing into the ground spin all the way there.

01:31:43 kakobrekla: gosh i dont remember last time i played sturmikov

01:31:47 kakobrekla: must be years.

01:32:27 mircea_popescu: f-19 ftw!

01:32:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55988799 BTC [-]

01:35:08 kakobrekla: its so long i spelled it wrong.

01:35:35 mircea_popescu: ;;google f-19 micropose

01:35:37 gribble: F-19 Stealth Fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter; F 19 Stealth Fighter MICROPROSE - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mErEdWCSZtY; Microprose F19 Stealth Fighter, DOS - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kCvSyJaYbc

01:36:32 kakobrekla: ;;google il2 sturmovik

01:36:33 gribble: IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad: http://il2sturmovik.com/; IL-2 Sturmovik (video game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-2_Sturmovik_(video_game); Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2

01:36:52 kakobrekla: the shit.

01:39:54 KRS1: ah the good ole days

01:42:41 asciilifeform: f-19!

01:42:46 asciilifeform: played that as a boy

01:42:53 asciilifeform: someone remembers!

01:44:45 mircea_popescu: :D

01:45:26 mircea_popescu: the day my colonel died...

01:45:31 mircea_popescu: was such a sad, sad day.

02:20:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00081495 = 0.815 BTC [-] {3}

02:24:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00084699 = 23.1652 BTC [-] {3}

02:44:33 mircea_popescu: .d

02:44:33 ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1174 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.5075% in 6d 17h 23m 59s

02:45:16 the20year2: cost to issue a stock on mpex if eligible is 25-30btc, right mircea?

02:46:31 mircea_popescu: you need an account in the first place. other than that, the listing fees are negotiated as part of the listing process.

02:51:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00084642 = 18.8752 BTC [-] {3}

03:08:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00534976 = 0.2407 BTC [-]

03:09:19 the20year2: k

03:28:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48363 @ 0.00085 = 41.1086 BTC [+] {3}

03:29:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30637 @ 0.00085157 = 26.0896 BTC [+] {3}

03:48:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5595 BTC [-]

04:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00085172 = 26.8292 BTC [+]

04:21:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62236 @ 0.0008528 = 53.0749 BTC [+] {3}

04:26:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.00084952 = 16.5232 BTC [-]

04:29:12 Apocalyptic: .d

04:29:12 ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1162 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.5418% in 6d 15h 36m 20s

04:35:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28839 @ 0.0008488 = 24.4785 BTC [-] {2}

04:46:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00085338 = 4.8216 BTC [+] {3}

05:00:52 KRS1: .bait

05:00:54 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m245dtSBTE1qe8lnho1_500.jpg

05:01:08 KRS1: .bait

05:01:09 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m175ex3r6F1qc3ldvo1_500.jpg

05:01:18 KRS1: .bait

05:01:19 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxn9tqL8M61qjx9n8o1_500.jpg

05:01:26 KRS1: YESS MOAR

05:01:26 KRS1: .bait

05:01:27 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1k5g9reG11qc3ldvo1_500.jpg

05:01:37 KRS1: o ya soo good

05:01:37 KRS1: .bait

05:01:38 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1pg3994kx1qd908uo1_1280.jpg

05:01:46 KRS1: ahhh

05:07:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 400 @ 0.0009 = 0.36 BTC [-]

05:27:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25575 @ 0.00085141 = 21.7748 BTC [-]

05:57:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5691 @ 0.00084874 = 4.8302 BTC [-]

06:24:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47983 @ 0.00085465 = 41.0087 BTC [+] {5}

06:31:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00085491 = 19.8339 BTC [+]

06:40:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21496 @ 0.00085539 = 18.3875 BTC [+] {2}

06:41:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10804 @ 0.00085567 = 9.2447 BTC [+]

06:47:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00084754 = 9.662 BTC [-] {3}

07:29:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.02649998 = 0.2385 BTC [-]

07:35:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.569 BTC [+]

07:36:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 55 @ 0.00534997 = 0.2942 BTC [+]

07:46:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23646 @ 0.00085486 = 20.214 BTC [+] {2}

07:47:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25671 @ 0.00085604 = 21.9754 BTC [+] {3}

07:58:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36700 @ 0.00085427 = 31.3517 BTC [-]

08:13:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.00085427 = 36.7336 BTC [-]

08:19:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50213 @ 0.00085493 = 42.9286 BTC [+]

08:31:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.0008517 = 39.2634 BTC [-] {3}

08:38:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 90 @ 0.02649998 = 2.385 BTC [-]

08:40:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28714 @ 0.00084941 = 24.39 BTC [-] {2}

08:41:44 KRS1: http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/300x300/30808637.jpg

08:48:42 BingoBoingo: This is some real hunger games sorta shit http://www.hulu.com/watch/583286

09:12:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00084779 = 32.0465 BTC [-] {2}

09:28:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00084751 = 31.146 BTC [-] {2}

09:42:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42963 @ 0.00084557 = 36.3282 BTC [-] {5}

09:48:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00084441 = 13.8905 BTC [-]

10:08:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7849 @ 0.00084441 = 6.6278 BTC [-]

10:16:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11779 @ 0.00084441 = 9.9463 BTC [-]

10:28:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 35 @ 0.00479941 = 0.168 BTC [+] {3}

10:30:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 50 @ 0.005 = 0.25 BTC [+]

10:30:55 KRS1: wooo somebody do something crazy

10:31:03 KRS1: 0530 am here in the states

10:31:19 KRS1: blasting buck cherry-lit up

10:31:24 KRS1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJO1klSB9Q

10:31:24 ozbot: Lit Up- Buckcherry - YouTube

10:41:57 mircea_popescu: .d

10:41:57 ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1109 blocks | Estimated Change: 18.7157% in 6d 6h 10m 59s

10:52:01 KRS1: hi

10:52:17 KRS1: When it comes to bitcoin irc is dead these hours.

10:52:25 KRS1: .bait

10:52:26 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/9a3af502dd4e547911fd1c6067716764/tumblr_mpz0g4laRh1swgttco1_400.gif

10:52:37 KRS1: .bait

10:52:38 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/f063571cc0aceb76d29e7f127f1f9dca/tumblr_mj3mp8HKAC1qhs5wyo1_500.jpg

10:52:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00084588 = 17.0445 BTC [+]

10:56:08 KRS1: .bait

10:56:10 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/315cb475f57c7fde3299e54e3e917b55/tumblr_mr731f3blT1rck5gjo1_500.jpg

10:56:23 KRS1: .bait

10:56:24 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/e6b28e7ac2f2c89e85c587a2f4acf58a/tumblr_mquj6iEP8R1rlftbao1_1280.jpg

10:56:35 KRS1: ah my dream girl

10:56:45 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/bf22cd5ceefcf8e754e24466e8cc129f/tumblr_muzwn0wo3D1ru15g3o1_500.jpg

10:56:49 KRS1: THAT folks is perfection.

10:57:40 KRS1: thats what i want for a wife..i thought thats the polish type of looks in a female..german maybe

10:57:48 KRS1: bring her to meh

10:59:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02649999 = 0.106 BTC [+]

11:00:17 KRS1: .bait

11:00:18 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/233dce634ddb36f51c8bd486a0f9f486/tumblr_mr86bu8RXr1suaakko1_500.jpg

11:03:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19115 @ 0.00084898 = 16.2283 BTC [+]

11:07:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6635 @ 0.00084898 = 5.633 BTC [+]

11:09:52 KRS1: .bait

11:09:53 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/dd23ba0c6ee23a1ceb6a5656ffbf6190/tumblr_mp9oxbde501r21xm5o1_500.jpg

11:10:04 KRS1: aw yeah

11:10:23 ArsKisS: err

11:10:27 ArsKisS: is it a must to spam the bot

11:14:38 mircea_popescu: no, he's just lonely

11:24:01 KRS1: yea..been up all night.

11:24:36 KRS1: didnt think it was a problem since nobody was here

11:27:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33892 @ 0.00085245 = 28.8912 BTC [+] {2}

11:33:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37954 @ 0.00084683 = 32.1406 BTC [-] {3}

11:34:44 KRS1: the bots spam me

11:41:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00084319 = 15.8941 BTC [-]

11:51:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00084318 = 10.7927 BTC [-] {2}

12:00:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 477 @ 0.0008201 = 0.3912 BTC [-] {2}

12:09:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9572 @ 0.00084753 = 8.1126 BTC [+] {2}

12:17:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25059 @ 0.00085151 = 21.338 BTC [+] {2}

12:18:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00290319 = 0.1045 BTC [+] {3}

12:19:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 282 @ 0.00293251 = 0.827 BTC [+] {3}

12:20:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 336 @ 0.0029388 = 0.9874 BTC [+] {2}

12:21:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00085266 = 5.5423 BTC [+]

12:24:38 ArsKisS: KRS1, silly flood is always a problem

12:38:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32878 @ 0.00085186 = 28.0075 BTC [-] {2}

12:41:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3903 @ 0.00084969 = 3.3163 BTC [-]

12:51:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18447 @ 0.00085174 = 15.712 BTC [+]

13:13:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.0008482 = 9.415 BTC [-]

13:20:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17241 @ 0.00085125 = 14.6764 BTC [+]

13:22:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00085196 = 21.4694 BTC [+] {3}

13:43:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.569 = 1.138 BTC [+]

13:48:58 mircea_popescu: fhttp://bitbet.us/bet/727/block-315k-mined-on-or-before-july-28th/

13:49:03 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/727/block-315k-mined-on-or-before-july-28th/ even

13:49:06 ozbot: BitBet - Block 315k mined on or before July 28th

14:07:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00084829 = 40.6331 BTC [-] {3}

14:27:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32100 @ 0.00084578 = 27.1495 BTC [-] {2}

14:33:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 358 @ 0.0004 = 0.1432 BTC [-] {2}

14:47:42 kakobrekla: http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/guns-in-the-home-lots-of-risk-ambiguity/

14:47:42 ozbot: Guns at home more likely to be used stupidly than in self-defense | Ars Technica

14:48:14 kakobrekla: hehe

15:05:38 mircea_popescu: well doh.

15:08:28 mircea_popescu: ;;tslb

15:08:33 gribble: Time since last block: 45 minutes and 36 seconds

15:08:48 mircea_popescu: that's like the only block past... hour and a half or some shit

15:15:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 97 @ 0.00534997 = 0.5189 BTC [-] {2}

15:22:49 Apocalyptic: .d

15:22:58 ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1080 blocks | Estimated Change: 19.0158% in 6d 0h 46m 13s

15:29:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00085285 = 18.0804 BTC [+]

15:31:03 nubbins`: hi

15:32:19 mircea_popescu: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7441/11996535306_41d4085bed_k.jpg

15:32:48 nubbins`: KRS1: there's been a "Virtual Currency" category on ebay.ca for a while. They wait til you've typed out your item description to tell you that you can't list things in there yet.

15:34:04 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: many had the opportunity to crush ebay, few put in more than a cursory effort

15:34:36 mircea_popescu: kinda why being big is a defense.

15:35:01 nubbins`: nod, look at windows 8. everyone reviles it, then goes out and buys a new computer with it preinstalled

15:35:49 mircea_popescu: i never bought a computer with software preinstalled wtf.

15:40:05 nubbins`: shrug, most common way to buy em over here

15:40:15 nubbins`: big box stores etc

15:40:37 mircea_popescu: but it's cheaper to buy the parts.

15:40:48 nubbins`: beyond the average person's ability

15:40:58 nubbins`: its cheaper to change the oil filter in your car on your own

15:41:06 nubbins`: few do it

15:41:15 mircea_popescu: well that's arguably bad for teh environment

15:41:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, i can see why you wouldn't, to allow the used oil to be collected

15:41:36 nubbins`: you can bring the collected oil to a garage

15:41:55 mircea_popescu: this is true

15:41:56 nubbins`: anyway, countless examples. home-baked bread is maybe 15-20% the cost of store-bought

15:42:15 nubbins`: given a choice between convenience and thrift, people choose the former

15:42:22 mircea_popescu: yup. but the reason baking is a required skill is that well... store bought bread is awful

15:42:40 nubbins`: nod, i can't eat it anymore

15:42:50 mircea_popescu: i dunno how parents allow women out of the house if they can't bake

15:42:53 nubbins`: the old-timers here would call it "baker's fluff"

15:42:58 mircea_popescu: it's a recent perversion this, and quite atrociously antisocial.

15:43:50 nubbins`: the average set of parents handed off most of their responsibility long ago

15:44:14 mircea_popescu: also quite atrociously antisocial.

15:44:23 mircea_popescu: and then these people have the gall to discuss sociopaths.

15:44:26 nubbins`: nod, such are the times we live in

15:44:28 mircea_popescu: THEY'RE the sociopaths.

15:45:54 nubbins`: speaking of pathos, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-S862p69B0

15:46:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9406 @ 0.00085219 = 8.0157 BTC [-]

15:48:59 nubbins`: on an unrelated note, i had a couple questions about stock warrants

15:52:27 nubbins`: well. at least one question, which will likely lead to some follow-up questions

15:54:58 Apocalyptic: go ahead nubbins`

15:55:52 nubbins`: don't think you have the answers i'm looking for, but sure: what's the process for redeeming one?

15:56:03 nubbins`: not looking to do so at the moment, just curious

15:58:38 Apocalyptic: you would in general inform the issuer of your intention to do so

15:59:09 Apocalyptic: if you're asking about MPex warrants then yeah mircea will probably be in a better pos to answer that

15:59:27 nubbins`: i am indeed, and i'm looking for specifics :)

15:59:44 Apocalyptic: then i can't help you :)

16:11:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30450 @ 0.00085326 = 25.9818 BTC [+] {2}

16:13:40 mircea_popescu: nubbins` mm ?

16:14:52 nubbins`: ah yes. not looking to redeem my stock warrant, just wondering what the process is

16:15:25 mircea_popescu: you state you want it redeemed, and which account it goes to, you're given an address to pay w/e it is to, you pay and have the shares pushed

16:15:44 nubbins`: well i don't have an account, hence my wondering

16:16:33 asciilifeform: i suppose i should listen here as well

16:17:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26261 @ 0.00085218 = 22.3791 BTC [-] {2}

16:17:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` then you'll have to talk to a broker to take them for you

16:17:33 nubbins`: i'm admittedly not an expert in the language of fiance, but as far as i can tell, having an mpex account is not a requirement for redeeming a stock warrant

16:17:54 nubbins`: *finance

16:18:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i recall you mentioned that the user fee will be debited from dividends, when those appear

16:19:21 mircea_popescu: nubbins` well you'll have to hold the shares somewhere.

16:19:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform um which user fee is that ?

16:19:50 asciilifeform: the 30.

16:19:51 nubbins`: ostensibly, sure

16:20:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00085427 = 24.7311 BTC [+] {2}

16:20:43 nubbins`: one could in theory "hold" them as a pgp-signed doc stating ownership of said shares, although i'm not sure what sort of mess that would create

16:21:24 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's exactly how one's holding them now innit.

16:21:49 nubbins`: holding cum != holding a baby, but yes

16:22:41 rattaTATpowpow: nubbins, i can help facilitate at some point if you want them ob Havelock (this is TAT on the road), though CoinBr might be better

16:22:45 nubbins`: anyway, there isn't much written regarding redemption, here are the few snippets i could find:

16:22:51 nubbins`: "Special Stock Warrants (abbreviated SSW) are numbered and GPG signed instruments which create the right for a beneficiary specified by GPG fingerprint to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame for a specified price, no earlier than a specified date."

16:24:34 nubbins`: nothing like a client that crashes when pasting

16:24:47 nubbins`: section 3.2 (b) of the IPO

16:25:37 nubbins`: and the stock warrant itself

16:25:44 mircea_popescu: the only difference between the ssw and the share is that the ssw receives no dividends until it becomes a share.

16:25:54 nubbins`: sure, yeah

16:26:02 rattaTATpowpow: it seems that storing them as warrants makes the most sense no?

16:26:09 mircea_popescu: but other than that, teh cum is in all respects a baby.

16:26:29 nubbins`: well realistically i'm going to hold the warrant for a very long time

16:26:31 mircea_popescu: ssws are like, cold wallets for shares i guess ha

16:26:53 nubbins`: but it would seem that the requirement to purchase an account on mpex or a broker is an ex post facto condition

16:27:48 mircea_popescu: not more than the requirement to have some sort of container is an ex post facto condition on buying milk.

16:27:53 rattaTATpowpow: can you sell warrants?

16:28:08 Apocalyptic: I thought all issued warrants were tied to a GPG fingerprint of a registered MPex key

16:28:17 nubbins`: they are indeed tied to fingerprints

16:28:22 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic to a gpg fingerprint yes, but it doesn't have to be a key.

16:28:31 Apocalyptic: ok, I see

16:28:46 nubbins`: nah, you can buy milk without a container. the farmer will happily squirt it into your mouth or on the ground

16:29:11 rattaTATpowpow: lol

16:29:26 nubbins`: to perfect the analogy, consider the case where a gallon if milk is $4 and containers from the farmer cost $6

16:29:59 asciilifeform: liquid nitrogen actually. this situation is abundantly true there.

16:30:15 mircea_popescu: well you can squirt it on he ground if you want, sure.

16:30:18 asciilifeform: contents cost a few $, container, a few hundy

16:30:48 asciilifeform: (visit local welding shop if you don't believe)

16:30:54 mircea_popescu: i doubt farmers will hook your head to the machinery because of the risk of being sued afterwards :D

16:31:18 asciilifeform: gas shop won't pour the LN2 in your clasped hands either.

16:31:19 nubbins`: haha. too true. luckily there's no such recourse in btc land

16:32:01 nubbins`: anyway, the text of the stock warrant and the ipo could be interpreted a few ways

16:33:00 mircea_popescu: all text can be interpreted an infinite number of ways

16:33:03 mircea_popescu: kinda what xor is there for

16:33:19 nubbins`: coffee or tea, sure

16:33:55 nubbins`: anyway, not trying to be a pest, but there's a few points here that i think a dissection of would be interesting

16:34:07 mircea_popescu: so go ahead

16:34:51 nubbins`: ipo, section 1

16:35:40 nubbins`: [SSWs] are numbered and GPG signed instruments which create the right for a beneficiary specified by GPG fingerprint to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame"

16:36:15 nubbins`: SSW #3: "S.MG will not process or administed any assignments of this Warrant by or among third parties"

16:36:28 nubbins`: on the surface, these two statements appear to cut MPEx out of the picture altogether

16:37:37 nubbins`: IPO section 3.2(b) offers 3 conditions for future share issuance; the first two conditions explicitly list MPEx as the venue, whereas the third, dealing with stock warrants, makes no mention of MPEx

16:38:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15442 @ 0.00085438 = 13.1933 BTC [+] {2}

16:39:01 mircea_popescu: yes, but these being contracts made by smg they're ancillary to its ipo agreement which is also its incorporation charter.

16:39:13 mircea_popescu: as s.mg can not issue shares on another venue, that's what it is.

16:39:52 nubbins`: another venue, sure. i couldn't ask you to issue my shares on, say, uh... wait, are there even any play exchanges left?

16:40:04 nubbins`: but that doesn't preclude a direct issuance of shares

16:41:17 mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "direct issuance of shares"

16:41:34 mircea_popescu: shares are what they are, not what some noobs thought they were, in the glbse days.

16:41:38 nubbins`: back to SSW #3: "[PGP fingerprint] shall be issued [x] new S.MG shares upon payment of [y] BTC to S.MG"

16:42:15 nubbins`: suppose a warrant holder pays [y] BTC to S.MG, and then announces they don't have an mpex account

16:42:37 nubbins`: one side of the contract has been fulfilled

16:42:40 mircea_popescu: they can't, cause tey have to say what their acct is before they can pay.

16:43:08 nubbins`: ah, sure

16:43:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20168 @ 0.00085107 = 17.1644 BTC [-]

16:43:59 nubbins`: suppose at some point down the road, S.MG happens to publish a BTC address that they control

16:44:57 mircea_popescu: but it did already

16:45:02 nubbins`: oh?

16:45:26 mircea_popescu: o s.mg you mean nm

16:45:32 nubbins`: yah

16:46:03 nubbins`: even something as inocuous as "feel free to donate btc to S.MG for feature improvement at 1SmgFeaturesblah1234"

16:46:15 nubbins`: a warrant holder sends [y] BTC to said address

16:46:25 nubbins`: they've fulfilled the conditions of the SSW

16:47:40 mircea_popescu: no, they merely sent some donation btc.

16:48:50 nubbins`: you say donation, they say payment.

16:49:00 mircea_popescu: they don't get to say.

16:49:24 mircea_popescu: because bitcoin payments can not be refused by the receiver, it logically follows that any published address will be treated exactly as the owner describes.

16:49:28 mircea_popescu: the sender gets no say.

16:49:39 mircea_popescu: just like the receiver gets no say on whether he receives or not.

16:49:57 mircea_popescu: this separation is actually one of the best things bitcoin is doing, even if few people had so far teh mental penetration to realise it.

16:50:41 nubbins`: we're back to ex post facto. payment has a specific definition

16:50:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.04999997 = 0.45 BTC [+] {2}

16:51:13 nubbins`: i eat a meal at a restaurant, head to the cash register, "oh sorry we don't take cash"

16:51:32 Diablo-D3: nubbins`: thats when you walk out and tell them to fuck off

16:51:49 nubbins`: sure, yes, unfortunately the analogy fails at this point

16:52:22 rattaTATpowpow: thats why you dont get the shares first

16:52:26 nubbins`: lel

16:52:33 nubbins`: one of the reasons why, yes

16:52:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.00534986 = 0.1872 BTC [-]

16:53:03 nubbins`: "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant by or among third parties"

16:53:11 nubbins`: ^ is MPEx considered a third party

16:53:12 nubbins`: ?

16:55:30 mircea_popescu: payment does have a specific definition, sure.

16:56:12 lippoper: they only take bitcoins

16:58:43 mircea_popescu: and i suppose mpex would be a 3rd party except it seems moot ? what's the case, mpex wants to buy your warrant outside of itself ?

16:59:27 nubbins`: what's mpex? all i've got is a warrant that mentions S.MG

17:00:32 mircea_popescu: this strikes me sort-of like the girl going to the gynecologist who says "don't let anyone stick his thing in there for two weeks", at which point she replies "are you anyone ?!"

17:00:40 nubbins`: heh!

17:00:41 mircea_popescu: well... he's not about to take her on a date, so it's moot.

17:01:01 nubbins`: this entire discussion is moot, but worth having nonetheless

17:01:30 mircea_popescu: so yeah, s.mg would at no point be processing assignments of the warrant between its holder and mpex.

17:01:43 mircea_popescu: quote the contrary, mpex processes assignments between the holder and s.mg

17:01:54 nubbins`: ah, yes, i see

17:02:28 nubbins`: more accurate would be "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant", full stop

17:02:42 nubbins`: that would make for a strange document indeed

17:03:03 mircea_popescu: and my fucking champagne froze

17:03:06 mircea_popescu: bloody hell...

17:03:26 nubbins`: we're in full spring here, 15C yesterday

17:03:34 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the idea is that if you decide to trade it to x, and x to y, and y to zee,

17:03:43 mircea_popescu: it's your damned business to sort it out, and s.mg isn't getting involved.

17:04:24 nubbins`: but if "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant"... the IPO contradicts that, when it defines an SSW

17:04:38 mircea_popescu: among third parties yo.

17:04:42 nubbins`: "...to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame"

17:05:02 nubbins`: directly!

17:05:34 mircea_popescu: so on paper 1 it says "we don't handle third party assignments" and on paper 2 it says "this is for buying directly"

17:05:40 mircea_popescu: seems oddly coherent to me

17:05:46 mircea_popescu: almost as if the same hand had written both.

17:06:16 nubbins`: sure, so what's the process for me buying my shares directly from S.MG?

17:07:06 mircea_popescu: you notify s.mg that X mpex account will be taking Y share delivery on this here warrant of yours.

17:07:12 mircea_popescu: s.mg tells you where to send the btc,

17:07:20 mircea_popescu: after which X account has the shares.

17:08:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 60 @ 0.005 = 0.3 BTC

17:09:25 nubbins`: so there's an implied, but not stated, 30BTC charge for redeeming an SSW

17:09:33 mircea_popescu: how do you figure ?

17:10:03 nubbins`: no account, no redemption

17:10:12 nubbins`: no mention in the SSW

17:10:18 mircea_popescu: that's not the case tho.

17:10:27 mircea_popescu: you can redeem just fine, you just can't redeem to your own account if you don't have one

17:10:30 mircea_popescu: which seems logical.

17:10:56 mircea_popescu: o. you're reading the "no third party assignments" to mean you can't have someone else's X ?

17:11:01 mircea_popescu: that's not at all what it says.

17:11:09 nubbins`: well, it's an ambiguous statement.

17:11:24 mircea_popescu: it merely says X can't come and say here, i have an assigment by nubbins, on his warrant, so please accept MY pgp as a valid signature to redeem shares.

17:11:59 nubbins`: i took it to mean that S.MG would only issue the shares to an account with the same fingerprint as the SSW

17:12:08 mircea_popescu: not at all, no.

17:12:16 mircea_popescu: it will issue shares to any arbitrary fingerprint,

17:12:27 mircea_popescu: just as long as the original fingerprint quoted in the warrant signs for it.

17:12:32 nubbins`: sure, okay

17:12:51 mircea_popescu: yeah, i see why that'd irk, that other way.

17:12:57 nubbins`: (this was my original intention anyway)

17:13:04 nubbins`: have had a few nibbles

17:13:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 90 @ 0.00315 = 0.2835 BTC [+]

17:13:25 nubbins`: it may be worth clarifying some of these points

17:13:32 nubbins`: in further issuances

17:13:45 mircea_popescu: i don't believe in long contracts.

17:13:51 mircea_popescu: let people ask. caselaw ftw.

17:14:04 nubbins`: i live in a commonwealth country, caselaw is all we have ;p

17:14:13 mircea_popescu: that's how the jooz did it too.

17:14:27 mircea_popescu: and the italians, fwiw.

17:15:02 nubbins`: (not much)

17:16:50 nubbins`: anyway, interesting instruments, SSWs, and this should be illuminating text for current and future holders of such instruments

17:17:22 mircea_popescu: yeah.

17:17:55 nubbins`: you mentioned earlier about the inability to refuse payments to a published address

17:18:13 nubbins`: this was the classic "cover your ass" tactic of those who bought illegal items on SR and other websites

17:18:30 mircea_popescu: you mean sold ?

17:18:46 nubbins`: nah, bought. purchaser slightly misspells their name when placing an order

17:18:57 nubbins`: package arrives, is brought indoors and left on a table, unopened

17:19:04 nubbins`: cops burst in, guns drawn

17:19:20 mircea_popescu: hahaha i never heard of it, but hey, whatever floats teh boat.

17:19:23 nubbins`: purchaser shrugs, says "how can i control who sends me packages?"

17:19:33 nubbins`: "they didn't even get my name right!"

17:19:46 mircea_popescu: did this actually ever happen ?

17:19:50 mircea_popescu: outside of reddit i mean

17:20:05 nubbins`: heh. just a thought experiment, but all the elements of plausible deniability are there

17:20:18 mircea_popescu: all the elements of plausible deniability as reddit imagines them.

17:20:26 nubbins`: consider that one could send a kilo of cocaine to a reviled politician

17:20:39 mircea_popescu: but you AREN'T a reviled politician.

17:20:45 nubbins`: no, but i know several of them

17:21:02 nubbins`: what's stopping me from mailing a key to one of them and then tipping off the cops?

17:21:05 mircea_popescu: good for you, but still, anon dork wants judge to believe someone hates him enough to blow 10k on it ?

17:21:29 mircea_popescu: or w/e a kilo of coke goes for these days

17:21:40 nubbins`: replace politician with neighbour, key of coke with handful of LSD

17:21:55 mircea_popescu: except the package wasn't sent by the neighbour.

17:22:06 mircea_popescu: someone with no prior contact sends you some lsd, you probably bought it.

17:22:21 mircea_popescu: you know, plausible is in there for a reason.

17:22:23 nubbins`: let's suppose i hate my pill-head neighbours

17:22:32 mircea_popescu: why do you hate them ?

17:22:42 nubbins`: because they smash bottles in the road all the time.

17:22:54 mircea_popescu: did you ever make a formal complaint ?

17:23:06 nubbins`: cops are there more frequently than houseguests

17:23:18 mircea_popescu: but that aside, you actually did ?

17:23:25 nubbins`: oh yeah, several times

17:23:29 mircea_popescu: okay, gowon

17:23:53 nubbins`: so i throw some pills into a box, write their address on the front, stick it in the mail

17:24:11 mircea_popescu: except they can track packages you know

17:24:12 nubbins`: call the cops again and say "i heard them talking about receiving a shipment of pills in the mail"

17:24:17 mircea_popescu: that pakcage came from w/e, chicago.

17:24:26 nubbins`: it came from the same city, even.

17:24:27 mircea_popescu: not from across the hall.

17:24:31 nubbins`: doesnt matter the origin

17:24:37 mircea_popescu: says who lol

17:24:48 nubbins`: what, people don't send mail inter-city?

17:24:58 mircea_popescu: they do, but people don't hate their neighbours inter-city.

17:25:09 mircea_popescu: in that those aren't neighbours.

17:25:40 nubbins`: so i drive 20 minutes to a post office in the next community

17:25:52 nubbins`: small inconvenience if i want my pillhead neighbours out of my hair

17:25:53 mircea_popescu: do you sign for the package when you send it ?

17:25:59 nubbins`: no, of course not

17:26:08 mircea_popescu: can you send anon packages nao ?

17:26:13 nubbins`: it's only a few pills. a padded envelope and a stamp will do.

17:26:15 nubbins`: you always could

17:26:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 22 @ 0.0051224 = 0.1127 BTC [-]

17:26:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54601011 BTC [-]

17:26:36 nubbins`: you could fit 1000 hits of LSD in an envelope

17:26:38 mircea_popescu: so your defense hinges on the jury buying the theory someone is stalking you.

17:26:51 nubbins`: i don't have a defense, i'm not in the picture

17:26:55 mircea_popescu: if you're a dweeby teenaged male with no social circle this won't stick,

17:27:01 mircea_popescu: say all trial attorneys ever.

17:27:02 nubbins`: the pill-heads defense is that someone is framing them

17:27:09 mircea_popescu: yes is what i meant.

17:27:21 nubbins`: the prosecutor's argument is that a frame job is ludicrous

17:27:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54600011 BTC [-]

17:27:29 nubbins`: and the pillheads go off to jail

17:27:31 nubbins`: or do they!

17:27:38 mircea_popescu: likely.

17:27:48 mircea_popescu: it's not much of a plausible denial, so far.

17:28:04 nubbins`: so for the cost of a stamp and a couple of pills, you can send someone to trial

17:28:11 mircea_popescu: sure.

17:28:13 nubbins`: possibly to jail

17:28:18 mircea_popescu: and for the cost of a drink you can send someon to bed.

17:28:25 mircea_popescu: possibly to the maternity ward

17:28:28 mircea_popescu: it's just how life works.

17:28:32 nubbins`: heh

17:29:26 nubbins`: anyway, judges here are generally practical people who realize that they live in the real world

17:29:34 mircea_popescu: kinda what i mean.

17:29:52 mircea_popescu: the judge will warn you and let you off if its your first time

17:29:55 nubbins`: if anything, the fact that i've complained about my pill-head neighbours so many times would lend much credence to my story, should i be caught with a package full of drugs in my mailbox

17:29:57 mircea_popescu: likely it isn't your first time.

17:30:21 nubbins`: "must have been those pill heads, they hate me and they're into drugs"

17:31:26 mircea_popescu: yeah, except until the cops ransack your place and find 5 sets of opened similar packages cause your gf can't be bothered to take out the trash

17:31:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.000094 = 0.1598 BTC [-]

17:31:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8877 @ 0.00085446 = 7.585 BTC [+] {2}

17:31:47 mircea_popescu: leave aside if they actually had been stealing your trash for the past 5 months.

17:32:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23723 @ 0.0008558 = 20.3021 BTC [+]

17:32:49 nubbins`: well that's just being sloppy

17:33:17 mircea_popescu: like all junkies ever.

17:33:46 nubbins`: what's the story on casual drug use in romania, anyway?

17:34:02 nubbins`: something like 50-60% of canadians admit to smoking marijuana

17:34:21 mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if a teenager in 10 actually ever had actual drugs of any kind.

17:34:22 nubbins`: although i always had the impression that eastern europeans didn't bother too much with the softer drugs

17:34:34 nubbins`: HEH. you should visit a high school here.

17:35:02 nubbins`: it's practically canadian culture at this point

17:35:09 mircea_popescu: sucks.

17:35:29 nubbins`: pros and cons. the uninspired continue to be uninspired

17:35:59 mircea_popescu: mno. normally the population is more or less balanced, ever the marginally worthless can pull their own weight. get a job, pay the rent.

17:36:22 mircea_popescu: with drugs, 90% of the population ends up costing more than it's worth, and half of what by such a wide margin even salami is a poor use.

17:36:59 nubbins`: marginally worthless pulling their own weight -- is this before welfare became a thing?

17:37:22 mircea_popescu: welfare is not yet a thing in romania.

17:37:28 nubbins`: o wow

17:37:49 nubbins`: so you can't get paid to sit on your ass your entire life?

17:37:52 mircea_popescu: minimum wage is like 150 bucks

17:37:54 mircea_popescu: a month.

17:38:04 mircea_popescu: and for that you do 8 hours 5 days a week.

17:38:26 pankkake: minimum wage isn't really welfare. well, it encourages other kinds of welfares

17:38:29 nubbins`: to calibrate, what's a loaf of bread cost?

17:38:38 nubbins`: (store-bought, natch)

17:38:38 mircea_popescu: about a dollar.

17:38:49 nubbins`: ah, so let's see

17:39:02 mircea_popescu: rents are about 3-500 for anything you'd live in.

17:39:31 nubbins`: going by a loaf of bread, that 150 bucks would be about $525/mo here

17:39:49 mircea_popescu: well... what's a gallon of milk there ? it's about 7 bucks here by now.

17:40:00 mircea_popescu: gas is ~2 dollars a liter so like 8 a gallon

17:40:25 nubbins`: ~$4.50 for two liters, although being on an island with few cows, it's understandably more costly than mainland canada

17:40:36 mircea_popescu: in short : breat is a poor comparison point (partly because most women being able to bake bread keeps bakeries honest)

17:40:39 nubbins`: hop on a ferry and it's maybe $5/gallon for milk

17:40:50 nubbins`: gas is $1.30-$1.50 a liter

17:40:58 mircea_popescu: so life is actually cheaper in canada.

17:41:25 pankkake: bread is poison anaway

17:41:30 mircea_popescu: noitsnot.

17:41:37 nubbins`: rents for a 1br apartment start around 7-800

17:41:58 mircea_popescu: yeah, rents in america are a racket.

17:42:01 mircea_popescu: i'll give you that.

17:42:03 nubbins`: nod

17:42:12 nubbins`: 5 years ago you could rent the same place for 450-500

17:42:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't think it's significantly different, tbh.

17:42:16 nubbins`: nah

17:42:41 nubbins`: cost of living is generally calibrated towards min wage, more or less

17:43:03 nubbins`: with some hardship, sure, but what do you expect

17:43:35 mircea_popescu: well i tell you, in general a student chick is either living in a four to the room dorm or else five-six chicks in an apartment, here. giving her her own place is a larger step up than her education would afford.

17:43:43 nubbins`: how about electricity, $/kWh?

17:44:01 nubbins`: to be fair, that's maybe the most vulnerable to regional variation

17:44:24 nubbins`: yeah, you don't find many single young people living on their own here

17:44:43 nubbins`: either still with folks or in a house with 3-6 others

17:45:10 mircea_popescu: it varies a lot but about 10 cents

17:45:23 mircea_popescu: then again romania has excellent infrastructure, lot of hidro, lot of nuclear.

17:45:32 nubbins`: 11 cents here, all coal-fired

17:45:42 nubbins`: well, mostly coal-fired

17:45:46 nubbins`: some hydro

17:46:17 mircea_popescu: they do this thing where they give it @2 cents/kwh to old geezers etc. so some very passible welfare sort of hting

17:46:20 nubbins`: massive hydro project coming online in "2017", will increase rates dramatically for us while providing cheaper electricity to other provinces and american markets

17:46:27 mircea_popescu: lol

17:46:39 nubbins`: yeah, real boondoggle

17:47:06 nubbins`: largest coal plant on the island is ~10 years beyond expiry date

17:47:32 nubbins`: the rolling outages started this winter and are expected to continue for the next four winters

17:48:12 nubbins`: hydro megaproject is actually located in mainland canada, connected to the island by undersea cables and then above-ground cables passing through a mountain range

17:48:20 nubbins`: repair time for a downed line? 1 month

17:48:41 nubbins`: needless to say, you can't buy a generator or a bottle of kerosene here at the moment

17:48:51 nubbins`: propane shortages since early december

17:49:26 mircea_popescu: i don't get this bs. how can a market economy experience shortages, at all.

17:49:50 nubbins`: companies blame weather conditions, citizens blame complacency and lack of planning/foresight

17:50:00 mircea_popescu: planning is not part of market erconomy.

17:50:09 the20year2: Who's economy?

17:50:10 mircea_popescu: everyone's moved on to a planned/command economy and refuse to admit it.

17:50:13 nubbins`: tell the citizens that

17:50:25 nubbins`: in fact, the lack of planning was on the part of the citizens

17:50:39 nubbins`: but few will admit their complete failure to plan for the unexpected

17:50:59 the20year2: Futures contracts are a part of a market economy

17:51:17 the20year2: which should smooth winter costs for fuel

17:51:18 nubbins`: much easier to complain about shortages than to address the fact that they caused said shortages by rushing to stock up on fuel when the outages begin

17:51:48 nubbins`: the20year: costs remain constant, availability doesn't :)

17:52:27 the20year2: Depends on how contracts were written, they can be written to deal with availability. A market economy could also see the need for fuel/goods and transport them

17:52:27 nubbins`: generally "scalping" doesn't happen here, so there's that, at least

17:53:02 nubbins`: well, the need for fuel wasn't visible for many until substations started exploding

17:53:03 the20year2: Sort of like when hurricane sandy hit NY/NJ this year, instead of letting gas go up 50c a gallon they just let the stations run out. Fuel companies could have brought in fuel for an extra 25c-50c a gallon, but the states ruled it illegal

17:53:33 nubbins`: yeah

17:53:49 nubbins`: TBF the weather did play a small role in the availability. all supplies are brought here by boat

17:54:08 nubbins`: we received i think 140cm of snow in december, without any melt

17:54:14 nubbins`: average is ~60

17:54:31 the20year2: you'd think with average snowfall that high you'd have people prepare

17:54:35 the20year2: but who wants to do that? it takes effort

17:54:36 nubbins`: YOU'D THINK

17:55:04 nubbins`: compounded by the fact that there are a lot of "McMansions" being built by those who made their fortunes in the oil and gas industry

17:55:14 nubbins`: and 90% of new builds use electric for the primary heat source

17:55:21 the20year2: I told everyone I knwo for the past 2-3 years they need to be buying backup propane hosue heaters and fuel, hardly anyone did it. And now we've had this freeze that's really caused problems

17:55:34 nubbins`: and the same 35-40yo coal generating plant pumping out the kWs

17:55:38 the20year2: Yeah

17:55:53 nubbins`: a generation ago, nobody gave a fuck when the lights went out

17:55:53 the20year2: here in the US the coal plant would be producing less and less due to more regulations

17:55:58 nubbins`: throw another log in the wood stove

17:56:17 nubbins`: today, you have communities setting up "warming centres" when the lights go out

17:56:59 nubbins`: oh, i was mistaken, that plant burns oil

17:57:05 nubbins`: #6 fuel oil

17:57:15 nubbins`: that's what, one step away from crude?

17:57:43 nubbins`: anyway, capacity was last upgraded in 1989

17:58:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32950 @ 0.00085425 = 28.1475 BTC [-]

18:01:07 nubbins`: relevant quote from "survivorman" les stroud:

18:01:16 nubbins`: "You won't see me crying when the power goes out. It's your own responsibility to keep warm, that's yourself and the vulnerable, so just deal with it. It's not the government's fault."

18:12:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.0828 = 0.1656 BTC [+] {2}

18:21:49 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> and 90% of new builds use electric for the primary heat source << in canada ?!

18:22:02 mircea_popescu: in a coal fired county ?! by people who made their fortune in energy ?!

18:22:06 mircea_popescu: end of the fucking world.

18:22:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.546 = 1.092 BTC [-]

18:26:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6649 @ 0.00085425 = 5.6799 BTC [-]

18:35:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5455 = 1.091 BTC [-] {2}

18:41:22 nubbins`: well, a generation ago, 90% of new builds had oil furnaces

18:41:40 nubbins`: today, an oil furnace will bleed your wallet dry over the course of a winter

18:42:35 nubbins`: when selling a house, oil heat is a huge negative these days

18:45:21 mircea_popescu: i don't get this. how is electricity cheaper ?

18:45:47 nubbins`: oil furnaces in homes burn #1 or #2 fuel oil

18:45:53 nubbins`: power plant burns #6

18:46:07 nubbins`: lower grade + bulk purchasing

18:48:10 mircea_popescu: nothing but rackets that place.

18:52:18 nubbins`: what's one to do, tho

18:52:59 Duffer1: we could vote!

18:53:08 Duffer1: lol :(

18:53:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 59 @ 0.00270918 = 0.1598 BTC [-] {3}

18:55:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12431 @ 0.00085443 = 10.6214 BTC [+]

19:00:31 nubbins`: Duffer1: perhaps the biggest lel of modern history

19:00:40 Duffer1: indeed

19:00:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00294 = 0.197 BTC [+]

19:01:27 nubbins`: democracy came about as a way for power-hungry low-borns to claw their way to the top

19:01:50 nubbins`: turns out the power-hungry aren't necessarily the best people to be placed in positions of power

19:02:09 pankkake: isn't it the modern panem et circenses?

19:02:34 nubbins`: one form of it, yes

19:04:09 nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot#Etymology

19:04:10 ozbot: Idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

19:04:54 nubbins`: at one time, an idiot was one who was unconcerned with public affairs

19:05:00 nubbins`: to a point, this original definition still fits

19:06:17 pankkake: I'd like to be an idiot then

19:06:38 nubbins`: it's not that hard to pull off.

19:09:17 nubbins`: side note, "nub" is a synonym of "pith"

19:20:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00085221 = 6.6472 BTC [-] {2}

19:21:14 nubbins`: t-shirts with public keys printed on them, think there's a market?

19:24:10 nubbins`: probably the nerdiest t-shirt i can think of

19:24:33 nubbins`: but surprisingly economical if you order even just two

19:25:59 benkay: hey asses

19:29:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54166 @ 0.00085008 = 46.0454 BTC [-] {3}

19:30:45 nubbins`: OH HI

19:36:15 nubbins`: what's new

19:36:38 benkay: q4->q1 drought looks to end soon

19:37:02 nubbins`: nice

19:37:19 nubbins`: i was just floating the idea of bespoke t-shirts with one's public pgp key printed on the front

19:38:04 benkay: i want my pubkey embossed on my business card now that i think about it

19:38:21 benkay: subtle neckbeardery

19:39:28 benkay: or on a dog tag

19:43:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.00512033 = 0.1997 BTC [-] {5}

19:43:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00084927 = 14.4376 BTC [-]

19:52:07 nubbins`: heh

19:52:11 nubbins`: black ink on a black shirt, even

19:52:19 nubbins`: need to catch the light to see the pubkey

19:52:26 nubbins`: imagine the nightmare of transcribing that

19:52:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.548 = 1.096 BTC [+]

20:06:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0264999 = 0.265 BTC [-]

20:07:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26881 @ 0.00085299 = 22.9292 BTC [+] {3}

20:10:44 kakobrekla: benkay: doge coin for doge

20:12:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 49 @ 0.00534107 = 0.2617 BTC [+] {2}

20:16:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21166 @ 0.00085005 = 17.9922 BTC [-]

20:35:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00084808 = 45.7115 BTC [-] {3}

20:44:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11611 @ 0.00084686 = 9.8329 BTC [-]

21:15:37 deadweasel: where's my "Got land? Thank Whitey!" tshirt, nubbins` ?

21:32:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00084571 = 10.9097 BTC [-]

21:39:04 nubbins`: deadweasel: 0.06 btc and it's yours

21:39:22 nubbins`: that's with both lines on the front tho, extra cost if you want it split back & front ;(

22:13:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32464 @ 0.00084567 = 27.4538 BTC [-]

22:13:24 benkay: http://homakov.blogspot.com/2014/01/account-hijacking-on-mtgox.html?#

22:13:24 ozbot: Egor Homakov: Account hijacking on MtGox

22:15:37 nubbins`: i reported a gaping CSRF vuln on havelock last year

22:19:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00084533 = 5.4946 BTC [-]

22:26:55 benkay: did it get fixed?

22:27:42 nubbins`: yeah, i submitted a fix and they applied it almost immediately

22:46:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 175 @ 0.005 = 0.875 BTC

22:46:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00084537 = 5.3258 BTC [+]

23:01:22 nubbins`: any osx users here?

23:02:07 mircea_popescu: website "accounts".

23:03:20 nubbins`: ^ a square peg, if small enough, will fit into a round hole

23:13:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00084533 = 10.3976 BTC [-]

23:13:59 mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the bar, http://noescapepublicnudity.tumblr.com/image/57247915606

23:15:01 Duffer1: i'm not a fan of the V

23:20:36 pankkake: ok, that one is nice

23:20:53 pankkake: nude in public isn't fun when it's on a deserted street at 6 am

23:21:53 mircea_popescu: what's the v ?

23:22:09 mircea_popescu: o her hairdo. yeah i guess it's kinda silly

23:40:44 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/71cda16a2f5d0c117c30ee36d832f203/tumblr_mpl1doQpvd1sqenddo1_500.jpg

23:46:20 nubbins`: heh

23:46:35 nubbins`: might as well be a stack of $100 bills

23:46:58 mircea_popescu: lol

23:46:58 mircea_popescu: .d

23:46:59 ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1018 blocks | Estimated Change: 18.4961% in 5d 18h 10m 42s