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Transcript for 18-01-2016, 1190 lines:

00:00:32 mircea_popescu: no, more like SHITFACE or DERPSTORM or whatever the fuck.

00:00:46 mircea_popescu: COUNTRYBUMPKIN

00:01:03 *: ben_vulpes is doing the same thing he's been doing for the past three weekends, building a sane development environment on actual metal

00:01:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where was it before? emulated in your brain ?

00:01:37 ben_vulpes: 'twas not sane.

00:01:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform before it was mass produced because five barons couldn't possibly etc.

00:01:47 ben_vulpes: myriad layers of virtualization.

00:01:50 asciilifeform: well you said 'actual metal', so i wondered about the meaning

00:01:51 asciilifeform: aha

00:02:12 ben_vulpes: have built in docker, cloud, etc

00:02:12 asciilifeform: is this the openbsd-on-old-mac thing ?

00:02:16 ben_vulpes: with a mouse, on a house

00:02:36 ben_vulpes: chapter something in the story, yes asciilifeform

00:02:51 ben_vulpes: should have listened to you, but must piss on each and every fence myself.

00:02:52 asciilifeform: iirc BingoBoingo once had something of the sort

00:03:00 asciilifeform: or was it netbsd

00:03:12 ben_vulpes: boost ate shit, tri segfaulted

00:03:21 ben_vulpes: video drivers etc

00:03:22 asciilifeform: !s from:BingoBoingo mac bsd

00:03:23 assbot: 2 results for 'from:BingoBoingo mac bsd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3ABingoBoingo+mac+bsd

00:03:34 ben_vulpes: today it's gentoo quest.

00:03:57 ben_vulpes: againstillnowwithgusto

00:04:01 asciilifeform: neato

00:04:15 asciilifeform: oddest beast i ever had gentoo on was a hp pa-risc.

00:04:32 asciilifeform: wasn't 'officially support', no.

00:04:42 ben_vulpes: "why gentoo?" asked $bzprtner, "is that the best linux thing around for working on mega-c projects?" "no, it's simply the least-worst and has a snowflake's chance of working"

00:05:01 ben_vulpes: 2 things drove this toolchain rebuild: exwm and tri-on-the-metal.

00:05:01 asciilifeform: https://jreypo.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/d330_view.jpg << one quite like this

00:05:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/238Z64T )

00:05:13 ben_vulpes: nifty device, asciilifeform

00:05:30 *: ben_vulpes downloading stage three for the...second? third? time today

00:05:32 asciilifeform: 55 kg.

00:05:46 asciilifeform: without disks or power supply, iirc.

00:11:53 guruvan: lol - gentoo "a snowflake's chance of working" << probably not much more, but at least you know why it's broken

00:13:55 guruvan: that's on today's agenda is to see why my glibc fails out of the latest portage :P

00:18:47 ben_vulpes: guruvan: what better route forward then? ubuntu 14.04?

00:19:25 guruvan: poh - no - I'm going forward with all my own gentoos :) zomg ubuntu 14.04

00:19:48 mircea_popescu: ah finally found that fucking article!

00:19:50 guruvan: I do use some in some docker images for various purposes, but my heaviest use images are all gentoo based

00:20:03 mircea_popescu: "Marti McCuller, a legally blind Web site developer, was frustrated by her difficulty in navigating through search engines. �My text‑to‑speech software let me read the various search sites,� she said, �but they often put so many links on a page it became hard to use.�

00:20:03 mircea_popescu: That is because the blind, even with text‑reading software, cannot glance at a page. There is no way for them to get a quick visual overview of a site�s contents and make mental notes about where it would be worthwhile clicking and exploring later. Rather, the blind must laboriously click from line to line, determining by a process of elimination where they want to go.

00:20:07 mircea_popescu: As a solution, Ms. McCuller created her own search engine, an amalgam of other search sites that does not force the user to move slowly around the site and wade through advertisements to find the right place to enter a query. Search words are entered at the top of the page, and appropriate links are displayed above all other material as well. Users do not need to tab through extraneous material."

00:20:17 mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/dwSkS#selection-241.0-259.119 << anyone remember how infoseek / altavista etc looked back in the day ?

00:20:18 assbot: The Blind Lead the Sighted: ... ( http://bit.ly/238ZRLa )

00:21:29 guruvan: heh I definitely remember altavista

00:22:32 mircea_popescu: the only practical way to know google didn't fucking invent the un-shat-upon screen is to personally know the devs that had done it before. i suspect this is true of most "genius ideas".

00:23:18 guruvan: once those ideas have sufficient network effect yet

00:23:20 guruvan: yes

00:23:56 punkman: did chetty read c++ via text-to-speech?

00:24:24 mircea_popescu: depends who wrote it / on what system, etc.

00:24:28 mircea_popescu: mostly no.

00:24:40 ben_vulpes: there are excellent reasons for the 80-col law.

00:29:39 punkman: my sympathies to friends, family and eulorean tribes

00:29:54 punkman: did she ever keep a blog, memoirs?

00:32:57 mircea_popescu: she kept a blog years ago but didn't write much in it. she did write asylum with me, so there's that.

00:33:10 mircea_popescu: not aware that there'd by any memoirs. she was kinda young for that sort of thing.

00:36:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00052172 = 2.8434 BTC [-] {5}

00:47:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2020 @ 0.00053008 = 1.0708 BTC [+]

00:50:23 shinohai: !s http://shapeshit.io/

00:50:23 assbot: ShapeShift | The fastest way to swap cryptocurrencies. No account required. ... ( http://bit.ly/2391DMp )

00:50:24 assbot: 0 results for 'http://shapeshit.io/' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fshapeshit.io%2F

00:50:28 shinohai: LOL

01:05:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052107 = 2.6575 BTC [-] {4}

01:07:30 ben_vulpes: shapeshit?

01:09:07 shinohai: Someone set up a phishing site LOL via: https://redd.it/41e094

01:09:08 assbot: SCAM WARNING ShapeSHIT.io fake website : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/2392Jrj )

01:19:53 mod6: <+guruvan> mod6: that image I made last night isn't working - there's a fork at block 168000 that it's not liking << yeah this is the original v0.5.3 right?

01:35:41 mod6: mircea_popescu: hey thanks for putting up your steps in the wiki

01:36:18 mod6: or, whomever did that.

01:43:31 mircea_popescu: i didn't do it. mebbe danielpbarron ? or hanbot ? or pete

01:51:18 mod6: i appreciate it.

01:54:32 danielpbarron: t'was me

01:55:03 danielpbarron: instructions worked for me and i wanted a way to reference them

01:55:06 mod6: o7

01:57:31 phf: ben_vulpes: so i'm running slackware with homebrew for linux. base system comes with most things you need to run linux userspace, and if i want something extra i just build it with brew. old dog new tricks

01:58:16 phf: none of that "rebuilding stage 3 with -O30 -mi868a" bullshit :>

02:05:28 danielpbarron: "blocks" : 346223, btw

02:07:34 mircea_popescu: 50k to go

02:10:11 mats: http://time.com/4183442/china-taiwan-tsai-ing-wen-first-female-president

02:10:13 assbot: Taiwan: Tsai Ing-wen Elected as First Female President ... ( http://bit.ly/208MXue )

02:13:17 asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/krislc/status/687943177005838336 << related.

02:50:25 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374605 << this is actually a good move, and the logical reaction to ascii's ban. << It is, but prolly ought to make sure power ranger nodes don't drop our connecion if we're expecteded to pass some flag while running protocol version 99999

02:50:25 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:06:37; BingoBoingo: In this version, it is only enforced for peers that send protocol versions >=70011 . For the next major version it is planned that this restriction will be removed. It is recommended to update SPV clients to check for the NODE_BLOOM service bit for nodes that report versions newer than 70011." end powerspam

02:57:55 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "Bitstamp has emailed users stating it has banned access from all IP addresses originating from the Russian Federation access to the Bitcoin exchange." << SHould be fixed

02:59:46 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and what is this "continue reading" thing ? << It's always been a thing. Keeps front page from reaching maxint length. Use started in early qntra when routinely dumping 10+ kiloword silk road document text into articles

03:00:02 mircea_popescu: ok but i mean, instead of article ?

03:02:50 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/688398372521168896 << this guy is the christina applegate of married-with-vcoinks.

03:03:25 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc BingoBoingo once had something of the sort << I imagine ben_vulpes mac has color display greater than 9"

03:07:21 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ok but i mean, instead of article ? Ah. missed that it snuck in there. Need to check the front page more.

03:14:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7069 @ 0.00052698 = 3.7252 BTC [+]

03:20:27 mircea_popescu: in other news nobody cares about, https://twitter.com/alazyreader/status/683066459849895936

03:20:48 mircea_popescu: i think i'm ironically much more famous among the idiot us-democrat crowd than among the idiot us-republican crowd.

03:21:41 BingoBoingo: Probably this year

03:21:47 BingoBoingo: In 2012 prolly reversed

03:22:08 mircea_popescu: i don't think either side knew enough of the world back then

03:22:31 BingoBoingo: Well, smaller sample size

03:23:15 mircea_popescu: http://jezebel.com/i-will-eat-chipotle-until-it-fucking-kills-me-1753170975 << in even other news nobody cares about, the one thing mayo gendered retards aka web-feminists are dedicated to is eating dirt until they pop.

03:23:16 assbot: I Will Eat Chipotle Until It Fucking Kills Me ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa0wrx )

03:23:32 mircea_popescu: " I refuse to be deterred by conventional safety. I will eat Chipotle until it fucking kills me.

03:23:32 mircea_popescu: The first time I went to Chipotle was around 2004, when the then-novelty of a burrito chain opened within two minutes walking distance from my high school."

03:26:37 BingoBoingo: This really is how the US will fall. The few will be unable to keep with with the many who can not wipe their ass.

03:26:50 punkman: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/we-talked-to-a-witch-who-casts-viruses-out-of-computers-with-magic

03:26:51 assbot: We Talked to a Witch Who Casts Viruses Out of Computers With Magic | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa0JuS )

03:27:00 BingoBoingo: It will be impossible for all of these planets to get their asses wiped.

03:31:15 BingoBoingo: Anal fistulas will become the leading cause of mortality in the United States.

03:37:24 *: mircea_popescu is doing his part by extracting young hottie nurses from the system.

03:37:50 mircea_popescu: (who the fuck knew - nurses are like the one profession with the largest bdsm bent, it's HUGE.)

03:37:59 BingoBoingo: seriously

03:40:24 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

03:40:31 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 381.02, vol: 7047.73459568 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.999, vol: 6058.14456 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.7, vol: 15400.56479562 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 0.29341837 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 386.4358, vol: 61172.33880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 384.97, vol: 135.48794721 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 392.074910889, vol: 52.17730934 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

03:40:33 BingoBoingo: ;;more

03:40:33 gribble: 385.140188659

03:42:22 *: BingoBoingo appreciates the timing of this latest broomstick to happen with a US banking holiday on Monday

03:45:06 mircea_popescu: the us banks seem to be getting more holidays than argentina

03:45:28 BingoBoingo: Martin Luther King day

03:45:39 BingoBoingo: But yes, they get lots of planned holidays

04:01:34 gernika: ;ud broomstick

04:01:42 gernika: dammit assbot

04:03:43 gernika: ;;ud broomstick

04:03:44 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Broom+Stick | broomstick. v. Lie your female partner on her back, grab your nutsack and put it in her vagina while grabbing your penis with both hands, one over the other (in ...

04:47:03 mircea_popescu: "how do you spell illiterate ?" "look it up in the dictionary." "how am i going to look it up if i don't know how to spell it ?!"

04:52:06 BingoBoingo: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/17/someone-just-accused-me-of-plotting-an-assassination-attempt/

04:52:07 assbot: Lying Liar Connie St. Louis Just Accused Me Of Calling For An Assassination! - Breitbart ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqYrrA )

04:52:25 BingoBoingo: Some people just can't go all the way

05:25:41 ben_vulpes: lol breitbart

05:30:10 BingoBoingo: !up soypirate

05:55:45 punkman: "the official exchange rate is 6.3 bolivars to the dollar. n the streets, a money changer will be happy to buy your dollars for 700 bolivars a piece." nice ratio

05:59:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00052313 = 5.6498 BTC [-] {3}

07:16:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00052314 = 3.7928 BTC [+]

08:11:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00052094 = 5.5741 BTC [-] {2}

09:41:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00052257 = 4.2067 BTC [+] {2}

10:50:59 jurov: ;;bc,stats

10:51:02 gribble: Current Blocks: 393859 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 1276 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

10:51:12 jurov: ;;hashrate

10:51:13 gribble: Error: "hashrate" is not a valid command.

10:51:36 jurov: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate shows exahash already

10:51:37 assbot: Bitcoin Hash Rate ... ( http://bit.ly/239PjLL )

10:51:56 jurov: ;;nethash

10:51:57 gribble: 861582177.733

11:01:11 jurov: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate hahaha

11:01:12 assbot: Bitcoin Hash Rate ... ( http://bit.ly/239PjLL )

11:01:24 jurov: https://ejj.io/abusing-your-browser-favicon/ < i wanted to paste this

11:01:24 assbot: Crashing Your Browser ... ( http://bit.ly/239PLcZ )

11:02:05 jurov: (the site won't crash it but describes a simpel way how)

11:02:54 jurov: "It's really amazing that Chrome and Safari don't have a sanity check for the size of a favicon. When I load the root of this website on safari, the favicon automatically gets fetched...fetched..."

11:02:54 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

11:19:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00052257 = 3.7102 BTC [+]

12:14:55 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.90000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b76

12:14:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8702 @ 0.00051779 = 4.5058 BTC [-] {4}

12:15:21 shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo I emailed f2pool, asked for their key and an invite to #b-a. May the fates be with you.

12:15:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:00:02 mircea_popescu: hhhola!

13:01:04 shinohai: >.>

13:12:20 mircea_popescu: jurov lots of holes with the favicon thing.

13:12:38 mircea_popescu: there's a simple privacy breaking thing where a site feeding you a bunch of favicons can figure out where you've been by looking at which you load.

13:53:23 mircea_popescu: that very weird moment when woman you fucked long ago berates your okcupid profile for impersonating you.

14:06:58 mircea_popescu: since i'm doing the documentation for an ample piece, here's random unrelated lulz : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2013#16124

14:06:58 assbot: Logged on 05-05-2013 09:52:31; mircea_popescu: perhaps gavin, but only on the condition that he keeps quiet a lot on most issues.

14:14:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6846 @ 0.00050936 = 3.4871 BTC [-] {2}

14:15:55 thestringpuller: LOL Chaang-Noi

14:15:59 thestringpuller: ;;seen Chaang-Noi

14:16:00 gribble: Chaang-Noi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 48 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 16 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <Chaang-Noi> might have to sue em

14:16:19 thestringpuller: 1 scammer dies, 5 scammers are born.

14:55:20 jurov: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/ReadingSensitiveFilesLessons now i'm curious what gpg does here

14:55:22 assbot: Chris's Wiki :: blog/programming/ReadingSensitiveFilesLessons ... ( http://bit.ly/1S0aP0h )

14:58:33 jurov: or gossipd will

15:15:10 mod6: Attention TRB Testers: If you want to help test, please take the time to build trb via trinque's makefiles here; http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000190.html (Should be basically getting & verifing the tar ball; plus setting up a ~/.wot dir with keys for V to use) -- then a `make` in the directory. Please report your findings. Thanks.

15:15:11 assbot: [BTC-dev] Experimental makefiles for bitcoind ... ( http://bit.ly/1S0cMtv )

15:18:47 shinohai: I'm gonna give those a go today on the server, it's idle since I got latest patched.

15:25:18 jurov: oh when i see it: trinque and everyone, pls send detached signatures as <name>.sig

15:25:49 trinque: jurov: k

15:26:12 jurov: ml currently passes all attachments regardless when there is valid clearsigned text but it may not always the case

15:28:21 mod6: <+jurov> oh when i see it: trinque and everyone, pls send detached signatures as <name>.sig << for V to work properly the sigfiles (seals) need to be named the same as the vpatch filename with a .sig on the end. is that what you're saying?

15:28:38 jurov: not it is not related to v

15:28:57 jurov: it is how ml prosesses attachments

15:29:02 jurov: *processes

15:29:03 mod6: i.e.: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch && asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig

15:29:09 mod6: that's how they need to be

15:29:28 jurov: why the second .asciilifeform ?

15:29:45 jurov: one is .anything , the other one .anything.sig

15:29:59 mod6: so i was wrong above, not just .sig, but <vpatch_name>.vpatch.<wot_id>.sig

15:30:06 jurov: or V requires author's name in the suffix?

15:30:27 mod6: take a look at these: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/seals/

15:30:28 assbot: Index of /v/seals ... ( http://bit.ly/1V1TpQn )

15:30:28 jurov: oh my, who designed this?

15:30:30 mod6: that's how they need to be.

15:30:39 mod6: alf

15:31:20 mod6: which, i think is fine because then i can sign that patch and call it: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.mod6.sig

15:31:30 mod6: and then v can differentiate them easily

15:33:39 mod6: !up ascii_butugychag

15:33:51 jurov: so imma have a regex like ([^_]+)_.*?\.vpatch\.(.*?)\.sig to find out something to feed to v?

15:33:57 ascii_butugychag: jurov, mod6: i designed the naming convention this way deliberately

15:34:15 ascii_butugychag: the first name (not used by v for anything) is the ~author~

15:34:25 ascii_butugychag: the second - used by the sig checker - is WHO SIGNED

15:34:39 jurov: but it requires PARSING

15:34:50 ascii_butugychag: these, ideally, will NOT always be the same, i keep trying to encourage folks to read and sign MY patches (and that of others)

15:35:24 ascii_butugychag: jurov: theoretically you can avoid using the name prior to .sig, but then you have to check ALL seals agains ALL patches ALWAYS and this is O(N^2)

15:35:34 ascii_butugychag: so go ahead, don't parse, but then enjoy waiting

15:35:39 ascii_butugychag: during every single op.

15:35:55 jurov: is it too late to use some better delimiter to extract the parts?

15:36:02 ascii_butugychag: like what ?

15:36:05 jurov: :

15:36:21 ascii_butugychag: what os are you on that is happy with : in paths ? vms ?

15:36:49 ascii_butugychag: what the hell is wrong with . ?

15:36:53 jurov: authorname:patchname:signername.vpatch.sig

15:37:13 jurov: then use dot after authorname, too

15:37:20 ascii_butugychag: but... why??

15:37:21 jurov: it is relevant for ml

15:37:25 ascii_butugychag: why not FIX THE ML

15:37:28 ascii_butugychag: instead of breaking v.

15:37:41 jurov: also, what if someone has a nick with _ ?

15:37:51 jurov: like mircea_popescu

15:38:11 ascii_butugychag: that makes no difference

15:38:13 mircea_popescu: huh ?

15:38:14 ascii_butugychag: the author name is for human eyes only

15:38:22 ascii_butugychag: only the signer-name is machine-parsed

15:38:39 jurov: yes? how do i extract author and patchname?

15:38:49 ascii_butugychag: why do you need to ?

15:39:03 ascii_butugychag: recall how mircea_popescu argued that it makes no sense to mechanically distinguish between author and signers?

15:39:08 jurov: you say noone will ever need to?

15:39:35 ascii_butugychag: the correct way to do this is for the first seal to be deedbotted to produce the attribution of the author.

15:39:44 ascii_butugychag: rather than magicks in the filenamez.

15:39:59 ascii_butugychag: protocol vs promise (tm) (r)

15:40:20 mircea_popescu: if i want to represent alf's signature as "asciilifeform", "ascii_butugychag" or more or just a subset, it should be up to me.

15:40:36 jurov: and how does ml match signarute to vpatch?

15:40:43 mircea_popescu: same fingerprint no ?

15:40:49 ascii_butugychag: using the .name.sig convention

15:40:51 ascii_butugychag: as now.

15:40:57 mircea_popescu: uh

15:40:58 jurov: someonse sends 3 patches with 3 sigs, I either have to get the match with gnarly regext above

15:41:04 mircea_popescu: didn't you just contradict yourself ?

15:41:08 ascii_butugychag: and realize that we can set all the filenames to 'fuckyou' and v will still work

15:41:08 jurov: or try to match each vs. each

15:41:11 ascii_butugychag: correctly

15:41:13 ascii_butugychag: just, slowly

15:41:17 ascii_butugychag: O(N^2)

15:41:30 jurov: why v can't require strict naming?

15:41:36 ascii_butugychag: why must it ?

15:41:51 ascii_butugychag: why tie to filesystem oddities that may go away when we get a sane os ?

15:41:58 jurov: to not need O(N^2) sig verificaiton

15:42:09 jurov: how will sane os solve this?

15:42:22 ascii_butugychag: jurov: it doesn't need even now. what is your problem with patchname.signer.sig ?

15:42:46 ascii_butugychag: i could even see the argument that 'signer' oughta be a gpg fp

15:42:49 jurov: because i need to match it to patchname.vpatch

15:43:06 ascii_butugychag: it matches trivially!

15:43:38 jurov: no it maps to patchname.vpatch.<unknown>.sig

15:43:39 ascii_butugychag: patchname in 'patchname.vpatch' must equal patchname in patchname.signer.sig

15:43:47 ascii_butugychag: jurov: holy shit, why ??

15:44:22 jurov: how?

15:44:35 ascii_butugychag: v - works.

15:44:45 ascii_butugychag: mine works, mod6's works, possibly ben_vulpes's also works.

15:44:55 jurov: v works because it has prearranged files, wot keys

15:44:56 ascii_butugychag: and now jurov has something that does not ? so fix ~it~ plox ?

15:45:24 ascii_butugychag: prearranged, aha. what's wrong with that ?

15:45:32 jurov: i just have some random bunch of name.vpatvh and somethingother.sig someone sends by email

15:45:41 ascii_butugychag: if you want the filenames to be garbage, you will have O(N^2) evaluation.

15:45:45 ascii_butugychag: there is no way around this.

15:45:51 ascii_butugychag: and i don't see why permit garbage.

15:46:21 jurov: i want filename.vpatch that i can just take and slap .sig in the end of it to find a signature

15:46:55 ascii_butugychag: very bad

15:47:08 ascii_butugychag: because it will end up trying to overwrite every OTHER sig

15:47:15 jurov: but this is Not Possible, now I have to parse the patchname out, and use that to look for sigs

15:47:15 ascii_butugychag: more than one person signs a patch

15:47:42 ascii_butugychag: i wrote v the way i did so that ALL patches and ALL seals can coexist on my disk and it be HUMAN-obvious which belong to whom and what.

15:48:22 jurov: ok, why can't the .vpatch and author fields swap?

15:48:38 ascii_butugychag: give example of the result ?

15:48:59 ascii_butugychag: let's start with 'asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation.vpatch.mod6.sig'

15:49:00 jurov: bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.mod6.vpatch.sig

15:49:04 ascii_butugychag: what will this be under new convention ?

15:49:18 jurov: also, what the 1 left over after splitting by '.' does there?

15:49:37 jurov: it would be 'asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation.mod6.vpatch.sig'

15:49:54 ascii_butugychag: how does this help anything ?

15:50:12 ascii_butugychag: that .mod6. does not belong in the vpatch name

15:50:18 ascii_butugychag: it relates ONLY to the seal

15:50:43 jurov: so?

15:51:02 ascii_butugychag: so i don't see what the point is of this change

15:51:06 ascii_butugychag: it breaks everybody's 'v'

15:51:08 ascii_butugychag: to what end ?

15:51:14 jurov: instead of *.vpatch.*.sig you have *.vpatch.sig filenames which are a bit easier to work with

15:51:29 ascii_butugychag: HOW?

15:51:46 ascii_butugychag: the .asciilifeform.sig IMMEDIATELY tells you that asciilifeform signed the thing before the .

15:51:55 ascii_butugychag: what the fuck is the point of garbling it ?

15:52:01 ascii_butugychag: easier for WHAT ?

15:52:35 jurov: eh nm

15:52:38 PeterL: should have patch.vpatch and patch.vpatch.SIGNER1.sig and patch.vpatch.SIGNER2.sig ?

15:52:53 ascii_butugychag: PeterL: this is the EXISTING convention, yes

15:52:57 ascii_butugychag: which happens to be sane.

15:53:09 PeterL: ok, makes sense to me, why change it?

15:53:27 ascii_butugychag: PeterL: idk, but jurov had some reason, which i still don't fully grasp

15:53:38 jurov: nevermind, i said, i did not though to be som paramount

15:55:43 jurov: only the question what is the '1' in bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.mod6.vpatch.sig doing there

15:56:03 ascii_butugychag: actually in that case i've no idea, iirc mod6 put it there

15:56:09 mod6: a long time ago. we had a different convention.

15:56:20 mod6: and now its written in stone.

15:56:26 ascii_butugychag: the fortunate thing is that it is NOT

15:56:39 ascii_butugychag: v will run if you rename the patch to 'fuckyou' and the sig to 'fuckapig'

15:57:01 ascii_butugychag: (or rather, a slightly improved 'v' will run, existing one requires patch name to remain same)

15:57:46 ascii_butugychag: but then you get O(N^2), yes.

15:58:23 jurov: so if there is a RFC someday you're against specifying filename convention?

15:58:29 ascii_butugychag: yes.

15:58:32 ascii_butugychag: let me say why.

15:58:54 ascii_butugychag: the O(N^2) instrinsic runtime of unknown-patch-bag+unknown-sig-bag is something i realized from the start

15:58:59 ascii_butugychag: and i don't see it as a serious boojum

15:59:17 ascii_butugychag: because i don't believe that any project has any business cancerously growing patches until this turns into a serious boojum.

15:59:27 ascii_butugychag: after a certain point, there oughta be a new genesis.

15:59:38 mod6: any way the real sig name is currently "bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.vpatch.mod6.sig" not <+jurov> only the question what is the '1' in bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.mod6.vpatch.sig doing there

15:59:40 ascii_butugychag: nothing lives forever.

16:00:26 ascii_butugychag: the other thing i oughta mention is that imho a core principle of v-ism is that it is impermissible for trust to be implicitly delegated.

16:00:48 ascii_butugychag: this means that at no point do ~i~ get to do less verification ~because of something the mirror host does~ - e.g., verify mailed in patches

16:00:55 ascii_butugychag: i have to do THE SAME amount of verification work.

16:01:00 ascii_butugychag: or we're using shithub, not v.

16:01:27 ascii_butugychag: this means that if jurov's box has to verify my patch against every known sig every single time it presses to post to www, SO SHOULD MINE

16:01:37 ascii_butugychag: does this make sense ?

16:01:42 ascii_butugychag: no implicit delegations.

16:02:29 ascii_butugychag: in EXACTLY same way as my trb node does THE SAME amount of number crunching whether it hears a block from gavin's node or from mircea_popescu's.

16:02:44 jurov: what??? i said nothing bout delegations

16:02:54 ascii_butugychag: jurov: this is separate, mostly

16:03:15 ascii_butugychag: but you also gotta consider what your box will do if it gets an inappropriately (for whatever reason) named patch.

16:03:32 ascii_butugychag: what i say is that REGARDLESS of the names, if THE CRYPTO is valid, it is a VALID patch/seal tuple.

16:03:35 ascii_butugychag: for all time.

16:04:33 jurov: it will publish and otherwise ignore it, I will tell everyone to add it to their v repository by hand.

16:04:45 jurov: (if anyone asks)

16:05:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2554 @ 0.00050896 = 1.2999 BTC [-]

16:06:36 jurov: i don't see ml as any authoritative source, nor it can't be

16:06:54 jurov: that does not mean it can't be tidy

16:06:56 mod6: so what are we trying to achieve here?

16:07:29 mod6: its a good start to just not mangle the filenames -- thats all set now right?

16:07:54 mod6: !up ascii_butugychag

16:08:48 jurov: mod6 if it can validate a signature (by name, NOT by scanning all files), it will add to its v mirror

16:08:57 jurov: that's all

16:09:05 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://www.cabinaselquetzal.com/fotos/P1070211.JPG

16:09:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBsZkl )

16:09:51 mod6: jurov: oh ok, you were gonna have the ML dump the vpatch & seal out to a second mirror?

16:10:02 ascii_butugychag: incidentally

16:10:07 ascii_butugychag: since folks are contemplating 'ideal v'

16:10:14 jurov: what does "seal out" mean?

16:10:17 ascii_butugychag: has anyone a position on whether patches oughta be broken into atoms ?

16:10:28 ascii_butugychag: that is, individual 'patchons' ?

16:10:31 mircea_popescu: jurov dump (the vpatch & seal) out to

16:10:43 jurov: oh that, yes

16:10:51 ascii_butugychag: (the objects where ---whatever, HASH +++whatever, HASH)

16:10:54 mircea_popescu: we'll end up with bitcoin-lispassets.

16:11:11 mod6: ascii_butugychag: you mean, atoms in the sense of vpatches only for individual source files touched?

16:11:12 ascii_butugychag: well if you think about it, the way we have it now is actually more complicated

16:11:20 ascii_butugychag: in that things that have no business being glued together, ARE

16:11:25 ascii_butugychag: from sheer historical accident

16:11:33 ascii_butugychag: mod6: correct

16:12:01 mod6: we could do it that way, it /may/ make things easier in the sense of V -- we've been doing it the way we are to keep the patch count low iirc.

16:12:16 ascii_butugychag: mod6: correct. and to save wear on our trigger fingers

16:12:23 ascii_butugychag: but it may lead us to tears later.

16:12:28 jurov: and why?

16:13:04 ascii_butugychag: i will leave the 'why' as an exercise. largely because this is not a pressing issue.

16:13:31 jurov: i see it as going back to RCS , no idea otherwise

16:14:13 ascii_butugychag: rcs ?

16:14:42 jurov: iirc it tracked changes per one file only

16:14:45 mod6: https://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/

16:14:46 assbot: RCS - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBtuuC )

16:15:45 ascii_butugychag: btw i hope everybody understands that life with 'v' is always going to resemble dark age blood sports like cvs, etc. far more than modern greased poles (e.g., 'git')

16:15:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00052044 = 3.0186 BTC [+] {2}

16:16:16 mircea_popescu: should i break down and try to rfc this ?

16:16:22 ascii_butugychag: because it is not built for comfort. just as t-34 tank was not.

16:16:32 ascii_butugychag: or how kalash buttstock is not built to be a dildo.

16:17:23 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: sounds splendid

16:17:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375228 << what's your idea of that certain point ? 1k ? 10k ? 1mn ?

16:17:30 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 15:59:27; ascii_butugychag: after a certain point, there oughta be a new genesis.

16:17:41 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: 'when epoch ends'

16:17:45 ascii_butugychag: it isn't a numeric thing

16:17:52 mircea_popescu: seems on some very rudimentary testing and evaluation that the compile would still take longer than the gathering of patches with ~1mn ish of them around

16:18:29 ascii_butugychag: and it parallelizes.

16:18:31 mircea_popescu: but this is not a matter to be handwaved.

16:18:41 jurov: i did not say anything about comfort, either. how do you propose bundling the patch spanning several files where hunks don't make sense individually?

16:18:43 mircea_popescu: for the following reason : v adoption will induce a major shift in how software is treated,

16:18:58 mircea_popescu: and your guess depends on how people software as a much lower node on that tree.

16:19:07 mircea_popescu: people will NOT WANT to genesis an old and famous tree.

16:19:48 ascii_butugychag: why not ?

16:19:55 punkman: ascii_butugychag: that is, individual 'patchons' ? << darcs does some of that automatically

16:20:01 mircea_popescu: for the same reason louis xvth pretended he comes from the fucking sun

16:20:03 ascii_butugychag: one would think that an old and famous tree woudl end up perma-pressed at some point

16:20:10 mircea_popescu: by whom ?

16:20:23 ascii_butugychag: just like every kid who wants to doodle in the margins of newton's principia starts with ~the same~ edition thereof

16:20:27 mircea_popescu: need i remind you the lulz of x.org recently lost ?

16:20:33 ascii_butugychag: rather than a randomly selected one of 100 newton-era drafts

16:20:45 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: wai wut??

16:20:47 mircea_popescu: you can't get those people in a room together to sign a new genesis.

16:21:01 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag x lost its only asset because people couldn't agree to sit down and extend it.

16:21:10 ascii_butugychag: l0l!!

16:21:18 mircea_popescu: don't laugh, it's a necessary consequence.

16:21:29 deedbot-: [fraudsters] USG in BTC, a history of constant failure - http://fraudsters.com/2016/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/

16:21:29 ascii_butugychag: of what? lead in the water ?

16:22:05 mircea_popescu: consider this scenario : bitcoin in 2020. mod6 has meanwhile gone hunting seals on the artic circle. you live in a remote mining colony up on the fucking moon.

16:22:13 mircea_popescu: how the fuck do we "re-genesis" the bitcoin ?

16:22:30 ascii_butugychag: that's the job of whoever thinks it needs another million patches, no?

16:22:43 mircea_popescu: this is not reason.

16:22:58 mircea_popescu: the only saving grace i see here is that it doesn't HAVE to be n^2

16:23:04 mircea_popescu: it can also be n, if you just use the right fucking names.

16:23:12 ascii_butugychag: as i wrote it, aha.

16:23:22 mircea_popescu: but let us be considerate to the progeny.

16:23:30 ascii_butugychag: i very clearly spelled this out, when first published it.

16:23:35 mircea_popescu: i think we've seen enough of the pitfals of disconsidering progeny in satoshi's work.

16:24:21 mod6: amen

16:29:21 mircea_popescu: "The basic formatting conventions for RFCs were established in the 1970s by the original RFC Editor, Jon Postel."

16:30:12 mircea_popescu: da fuck. am i going to call it a rfc ? if not, why not, if yes am i going to follow the "guidelines" ? which ? the most recent ? who the fuck is "Internet Architecture Board (IAB)" that i should care, nevber heard of 'em. the original ? seriously, postel ?

16:30:27 mircea_popescu: fucking shit before you do anything you gotta dry some land first.

16:31:15 mircea_popescu: o look at that, importing cmos.

16:31:56 mircea_popescu: "The RFC Editor generally follows these accepted rules as defined by the Chicago Manual of Style (CMOS) [CMOS], with a few important exceptions to avoid ambiguity in complex technical prose and to handle mixtures of text and computer languages, or to preserve historical formatting rules." << kids, this is how not to code.

16:33:08 mircea_popescu: bah.

16:33:16 PeterL: we need our own RFC format?

16:33:34 mircea_popescu: tel lyou what, i'ma make it a v instead, fuck this stupid shit.

16:33:37 ascii_butugychag: this is kinda why i stopped

16:33:39 mircea_popescu: i'm not importing rfc.

16:33:50 ascii_butugychag: i tried, on the train, and nearly barfed.

16:33:58 mircea_popescu: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?difftype=--hwdiff&url2=rfc7322 << would you look at this retarded crap

16:34:01 assbot: wdiff draft-iab-styleguide rfc7322.txt ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZHmvLy )

16:34:16 mircea_popescu: the work that went into all this stupidity.

16:34:22 ascii_butugychag: (though i recently bought a strange widget that puts electric current through your wrist and keeps you from barfing, nfi how, but wurks, so we can see again!)

16:34:22 mircea_popescu: how did that quote go

16:34:53 mircea_popescu: "This devastating outcome for stakeholders indicates what can happen when much brainpower and energy are applied to a faulty premise."

16:35:15 ascii_butugychag: ^ whole history of kompoyoooting as-a-field, aha.

16:38:35 jurov: !up ascii_butugychag

16:39:12 ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375311 << so i read this, and one thing continues to perplex me,

16:39:12 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 16:21:29; deedbot-: [fraudsters] USG in BTC, a history of constant failure - http://fraudsters.com/2016/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/

16:40:09 ascii_butugychag: why does usg keep returning to idiot humint claptrap (e.g., 'consensus-building' etc) when it could leverage its only real strength, money and captive engineers ?

16:40:19 ascii_butugychag: build yottahash plant, etc.

16:40:23 mircea_popescu: that it has no money and no engineers.

16:41:00 mircea_popescu: why does it keep losing in the east when it could have "leveraged" it's "best army in the world" bahamas has in rthe books ?

16:41:04 ascii_butugychag: it has plenty of each, but they are not on 'gs' civil service ladder.

16:41:14 mircea_popescu: for that matter, why didn't soviet russia mobilize all those book-only assets ?

16:41:25 mircea_popescu: why didn't 1910 china mobilize the infinity army it had and beat the english ?

16:41:32 ascii_butugychag: because they wanted american pants.

16:41:35 mircea_popescu: you recall the story of the palace fire when that castrato ascended ?

16:41:43 ascii_butugychag: there is not a meta-america whose pants these engineers want to put on.

16:41:50 ascii_butugychag: that is sorta the whole of it.

16:42:05 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: pu yi ? aha

16:42:06 mircea_popescu: not even close. it's just what you want to believe so as not to wake screaming from your sleep.

16:42:13 ascii_butugychag: hey i already wake up screaming

16:42:25 ascii_butugychag: so i would readily believe it if i had any reason to think it true

16:42:34 ascii_butugychag: what, i'll scream twice ?

16:42:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, what i'm going to do here is : write a fraudsters article titled The V Manual Genesis or something, which will discuss but also contain a genesis for something called v-manual

16:42:54 mircea_popescu: is that a good name for it ? kinda confusing as fuck

16:43:08 mircea_popescu: i guess in time the convention that x-manual holds the manual will resolve this.

16:43:08 ascii_butugychag: i called my draft simply 'v-genesis'

16:43:17 mircea_popescu: that's already taken

16:43:21 mircea_popescu: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000151.html

16:43:22 assbot: [BTC-dev] V-genesis signed, with comment ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0DysO )

16:43:25 ascii_butugychag: ah hm then manual wurks

16:43:46 mircea_popescu: and the idea being, that one can read whatever fucking manual he wants, signed by whatever subset of sigs he likes.

16:43:47 ascii_butugychag: incidentally

16:43:56 ascii_butugychag: i see no reason why mailing lists ought not be vtronic

16:44:00 mircea_popescu: but ima put it first as an article so we don't end up needing a ton of small fixes signed

16:44:02 ascii_butugychag: the ultimate historic annals.

16:44:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this is going towards "animated programs", where instead of looking at a program as a[n ultimately] bitmap you instead look at it as a gif, with layers coming on top of each other.

16:44:59 mircea_popescu: makes your "fits on page" thing much more of an issue. "all programs must fit within so and so viewport"

16:45:20 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: machine only runs a flattened (pressed) item anyway

16:45:24 ascii_butugychag: that is the part that 'oughta fit'

16:45:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, a large part of trying to make a manual is that fuck me, we barely even understand what we're doing.

16:45:32 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag yes, but reading code is reading code.

16:45:52 ascii_butugychag: reading history - is an art

16:46:49 ascii_butugychag: at any rate, the large part of what i see as needing a manual, is the ~why~ of v

16:47:13 ascii_butugychag: rather than the 'how', which is bound up in a particular implementation and probably best learned from ~reading its src~

16:47:26 mircea_popescu: myah.

16:47:45 punkman: uppercase verbs for #b-a RFC: MUST, MUST NOT, FUCK YOU

16:48:11 ascii_butugychag: and said document, at least in my attempt, was to describe some of the cockroaches that have been running around in human mind for millenia, that it tries to chlorophos.

16:49:02 *: mircea_popescu is pacing around the room, will bbl with something.

16:51:20 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375090 <<< works flawlessly on Deb/Ubuntu had to `export PERL_MM_OPT=` again tho.

16:51:20 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 15:15:10; mod6: Attention TRB Testers: If you want to help test, please take the time to build trb via trinque's makefiles here; http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000190.html (Should be basically getting & verifing the tar ball; plus setting up a ~/.wot dir with keys for V to use) -- then a `make` in the directory. Please report your findings. Thanks.

16:51:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:40:47 BingoBoingo: ;;nethash

17:40:48 gribble: 897064840.267

17:42:29 mod6: thanks shinohai!

17:42:57 shinohai: !Up ascii_butugychag

17:42:59 shinohai: np

17:45:34 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag mk, i've got it, and it is scandalous.

17:46:53 mod6: :]

17:47:24 BingoBoingo: Oh what made what where nao https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41jzly/usg_in_btc_a_history_of_constant_failure/

17:47:25 assbot: USG in BTC, a history of constant failure : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBCpw5 )

17:50:20 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

17:50:26 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 386.11, vol: 7807.32328620 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 386.311, vol: 8222.6742 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.36, vol: 21758.83407143 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 2.753 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 388.968, vol: 51982.29760000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 387.434, vol: 276.91714162 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 389.35325, vol: 80.28751916 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

17:50:30 BingoBoingo: ;;more

17:50:30 gribble: 388.084894489

17:52:57 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: wai wut

17:53:16 BingoBoingo: Falkvinge gone USG, Comoonity Oranizing https://archive.is/fvhaZ

17:53:18 assbot: Some advice for everybody at this point in time : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/23aqbED )

17:53:33 BingoBoingo: *Orapizing

17:53:49 BingoBoingo: ;;google orap

17:53:50 gribble: Orap (Pimozide) Drug Information: Description, User Reviews, Drug ...: http://www.rxlist.com/orap-drug.htm; Orap oral : Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings ...: http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11120/orap-oral/details; PIMOZIDE - ORAL (Orap) side effects, medical uses, and drug ...: http://www.medicinenet.com/pimozide-oral/article.htm

17:53:55 PeterL: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/efd76f86-eb59-4a51-8307-723937c233c2/?raw=true << node up and running, lots of thanks to mod6 !

17:53:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/23aqeAt )

17:54:13 ascii_butugychag: congrats PeterL !

17:54:50 PeterL: surprisingly hard, but that's mostly my fault

17:57:04 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: my original attempt at v manifesto was largely about how... it is a weapon.

17:57:15 ascii_butugychag: against the people called 'adhesivists' in the 'shall be delivered' tale

17:57:21 shinohai: gg PeterL

17:57:51 mircea_popescu: bear with me, it's done, need just write it out. one hour.

17:58:16 ascii_butugychag: (that is, vermin who base their entire lives on strategic deception and multilevel chumpatronics)

17:58:31 ascii_butugychag: hm ok

18:06:37 punkman: lol Falkvinge, "If there's no profit to be made in using bitcoin as a drop-in replacement for credit card payments, bitcoin will not be deployed at scale. Deployment and outcompeting legacy systems depend entirely on merchant financial gains from rollout."

18:14:16 BingoBoingo: punkman: Falkvinge comes from a very peculair form of socialism I like to refer to Consumermunism

18:14:20 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

18:16:25 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: l0lwut ?

18:17:11 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: You know the sort of socialism that's primarily focused around what Walmart and the Record labels are doing

18:17:18 ascii_butugychag: actually no ?

18:17:38 BingoBoingo: You ever seen the anti-Walmart union protests or at least heard about them?

18:18:07 ascii_butugychag: for some reason i thought those folks were forbidden to unionize

18:18:25 BingoBoingo: They are, but the remaining unions protest against walmart because of it.

18:18:40 BingoBoingo: And there's a big long history with that.

18:19:13 BingoBoingo: I wrap that and the "piracy because poor" together with some other idiocies into the Consumermunism label.

18:19:44 ascii_butugychag: what's 'piracy because poor' ?

18:19:58 ascii_butugychag: is it mechanically distinguishable from 'piracy because fuckyou and it's my computer and fuckyou again' ?

18:20:38 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: The crowd whose taste in music sucks so they pirate that and lament getting caught. Different from piracy because Fuck You in that pircy because Fuck you gets moral agency.

18:20:56 BingoBoingo: piracy because poor is shoplifting

18:21:05 BingoBoingo: piracy because Fuck You is an actual cause

18:21:38 BingoBoingo: Mens Rae or the inability to have it is a driving force in Consumermunism

18:21:38 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: you are thinking of... purpose, rather than cause

18:21:53 mircea_popescu: ok here we go : http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/

18:21:54 assbot: The V Manual Genesis on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgC7ZS )

18:22:05 mircea_popescu: please shoot me.

18:22:13 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: Maybe Havent had my coffee yet

18:22:15 ascii_butugychag: i would argue that an illiterate kid who sees nothing wrong with copying bits is every bit as sane in this regard as RMS

18:22:16 mircea_popescu: mod6 you wanna write the [implementation] part and i bitch at you ? seems a better approach than the reverse.

18:25:27 BingoBoingo: loller "Hi Mike. ... If I was a handler for an organization that wanted to insert an asset into the bitcoin community, someone like you would be the ideal candidate. Someone that young people, new to the community, naturally respect and will listen to. Strange how you've spent so much time cultivating your standing with people like that, while your reputation plummeted among the people that understood the network (and had far more

18:25:27 BingoBoingo: skin in the game than you did, because if I remember correctly you never foresaw the spectacular growth of the bitcoin network, never thought it would work, and therefore did not really have that many coins yourself)."

18:25:32 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: notbad

18:25:33 BingoBoingo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10924626

18:25:34 assbot: Hi Mike. I met you at San Jose conference in 2013. I remember very clearly- you ... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1S0u3D8 )

18:26:07 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i'm creaming my pants at the notion that footnote 2 is actually provable, mathematically.

18:26:49 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: that comment will likely hit /dev/null shortly..

18:27:11 mircea_popescu: it can't, because https://archive.is/rra5Q

18:27:12 assbot: Hi Mike. I met you at San Jose conference in 2013. I remember very clearly- you ... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1S0ucGy )

18:27:22 ascii_butugychag: l0l

18:27:36 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/4VPIz

18:27:37 assbot: No. It took a sharp fall in the BTC price. This narrative that Gavin and I were... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgCDHi )

18:27:46 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what would such a proof look like, do you suppose ?

18:28:12 ascii_butugychag: something godel-flavoured ?

18:28:16 mircea_popescu: quite so.

18:28:33 mircea_popescu: one just has to correctly make the statement of their incorectness in a proper formed T.

18:28:41 mircea_popescu: which is a huge pile of work, sadly.

18:28:58 ascii_butugychag: and the result is virtually guaranteed to be indigestible.

18:29:02 *: mircea_popescu for the first time in lyf regrets he's not been paying much attention to the whole pile of proofola.

18:29:48 mircea_popescu: (properly formed above mostly means "minimal")

18:29:52 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: there is unlikely to be anything you ~really want~ at the bottom of that pile.

18:30:07 BingoBoingo: So I go to check my rss feed and get a link to https://archive.is/u0mZU

18:30:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgCOSZ )

18:30:23 BingoBoingo: *reader, rss reader

18:30:37 ascii_butugychag: but not entirely unrelatedly, acl2 is a pretty spiffy thing

18:30:46 mircea_popescu: thinking atm something along the lines of "enough set theory to be able to define an algebra"

18:30:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag perhaps not.

18:31:03 ascii_butugychag: my first and probably last encounter with a mechanical proofatron that isn't immediately barfalicious in any way

18:31:32 mircea_popescu: i dunno how i'd use it.

18:32:10 ascii_butugychag: i intend to use it to demonstrate that, e.g., all 'p' programs terminate.

18:32:22 ascii_butugychag: modest goal is key.

18:32:35 mircea_popescu: heh. ok.

18:32:43 mircea_popescu: 0x01 talks about fucking identity.

18:32:46 mircea_popescu: there's a gap here.

18:33:07 ascii_butugychag: http://proofpad.org << for crapple users

18:33:08 assbot: Proof Pad: Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgD3NK )

18:33:47 mircea_popescu: "all p programs correctly evaluate whether they terminate"

18:34:29 mircea_popescu: > user: darwins_pitbull created: 3 hours ago karma: 8

18:34:31 mircea_popescu: >I have a long history of having a keenly skeptical eye, I have solid critical thinking skills, and I bat away wacky theories all day long. I have NEVER, in any forum, posted any comment of any type in regards to bitcoin, this is my first one- I believe in speaking humbly, thinking deeply and acting bravely.

18:34:35 mircea_popescu: wtf is this bs lol.

18:34:36 ascii_butugychag: gotta define what means 'correctly evaluate'

18:34:46 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag that's the bitch, innit.

18:35:08 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it will have to invoke... rings, fields, yes

18:35:13 mircea_popescu: yes.

18:35:31 ascii_butugychag: incidentally, i'm on a bit of a group theory kick

18:36:06 ascii_butugychag: on account of that schmuck at shmoocon who was peddling a group-theoretical crypto algo, quasi-proprietary and patentalicious, that was more or less stolen verbatim from maslennikov's book...

18:36:16 mircea_popescu: bwhaahah

18:36:22 mircea_popescu: did you point out ?

18:36:51 ascii_butugychag: nah but some other ru kid stood up and said 'your algo was broken no fewer than 3 times, do i invest now or wait for 4th' or approx. this

18:36:58 ascii_butugychag: and everybody l0led in their pants

18:36:59 mircea_popescu: lol

18:37:20 mircea_popescu: shoulda bought the kid drinks.

18:37:45 ascii_butugychag: prolly

18:38:15 mircea_popescu: you gotta have moar sex with strangers alfie!

18:38:15 BingoBoingo: !b 5

18:38:17 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2JKW9GD.txt )

18:38:42 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The V Manual Genesis - http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/

18:39:03 ascii_butugychag: i will note that the few actual women attending were creatures straight out of mircea_popescu's okc articles

18:39:22 ascii_butugychag: apparently! they are not kept in some specially designated zoo

18:39:35 BingoBoingo: Gotta fix that

18:39:36 mircea_popescu: nicely done PeterL

18:48:03 mircea_popescu: heh

18:55:01 mircea_popescu: "When such an enormous amount of crucial data (on the need to raise the blocksize limit) is ignored, that is done at the peril of the project." dude what is with all the derps ffs.

18:55:26 mircea_popescu: what crucial data ? who who either holds any significant bitcoin, or runs any significant ~bitcoin~ business said ever anything about increasing block size ?

18:55:56 mircea_popescu: it hasn't happened yet! there's a pile of data about how people UNINVOLVED in bitcoin in ANY capacity want to "improve" it, preferabvly in such a manner that their continued uninvolvement is less to their own detriment.

18:55:58 mircea_popescu: big fucking whoop.

18:56:25 mircea_popescu: here's an idea : there's an enormous amount of crucial data coming from all arab speakers that muricans should sit on a fucking pike from now on. because satan and such reasons.

18:56:38 mircea_popescu: what's the progress on this deeply uncontroversial technical solution ? hm ?

18:57:36 BingoBoingo: Seriously. I don't get the drive to adopt solutions pushed by ventures who broke doing things like http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-bowl-recap-nc-state-wins-34-27/

18:57:36 assbot: Bitcoin Bowl Recap: NC State Wins (34-27) | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1PbIaGw )

18:58:23 mircea_popescu: is random redditard even the same guy ?

18:58:28 BingoBoingo: No idea

18:58:53 BingoBoingo: Likely though considering it harmonizes with his twatter's noise

18:59:39 mircea_popescu: https://falkvinge.net/contact/ << derp "has experience" in stuff, no pgp sig.

18:59:39 assbot: Contact - Falkvinge on Infopolicy ... ( http://bit.ly/1PbIncU )

18:59:43 mircea_popescu: psssh.

18:59:55 mircea_popescu: ah here it is.

19:00:40 mircea_popescu: !rate 8FF6B4382C3FE0C9700C7FD3DD2C5E65A090A6CE -1 less opining more reading.

19:00:40 assbot: 8FF6B4382C3FE0C9700C7FD3DD2C5E65A090A6CE is not registered in WoT.

19:02:19 punkman: might be nice if assbot let us rate arbitrary gpg keys

19:03:10 mircea_popescu: nah, enough to have the sort of crud in the logs, no need to put it in active db

19:03:47 mircea_popescu: should any tim swanson want to show up later, it's rather trivial to !s anyway\

19:04:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375237 << yes this makes sense, yes it's there fundamentally.

19:04:29 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 16:01:42; ascii_butugychag: no implicit delegations.

19:05:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375252 << technically the ml is a soft fork on v chain ? :D

19:05:39 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 16:08:48; jurov: mod6 if it can validate a signature (by name, NOT by scanning all files), it will add to its v mirror

19:05:42 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 you wanna write the [implementation] part and i bitch at you ? seems a better approach than the reverse. << haha, ok. i probably wont get a start on this until later tonight tho. hope that's alright.

19:07:13 mircea_popescu: no rush.

19:09:51 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << technically the ml is a soft fork on v chain ? :D << I think of it as more a concordance for the v chain

19:10:40 BingoBoingo: No reason to adapt PowerDerp language when there's already words for handling canon and accompanying accessories

19:11:55 mircea_popescu: :p

19:12:27 BingoBoingo: later tell danielpbarron Given your proclivities... perhaps you can do a draft manifesto for using language to describe relations between v-ified software and the things that surround it.

19:12:36 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell danielpbarron Given your proclivities... perhaps you can do a draft manifesto for using language to describe relations between v-ified software and the things that surround it.

19:12:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:14:12 danielpbarron: do what now?

19:14:32 mircea_popescu: #b-a can always be trusted to ferrer out crushingly impossible tasks for people more or less alligned with their interests.

19:14:40 mircea_popescu: i am starting to think it's part of the appeal.

19:14:41 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: If v is used to handle a canon, what sort of language accompanies things that surround a canon

19:14:49 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

19:15:18 ascii_butugychag: ty BingoBoingo. and i'm a little surprised that nobody (not even pete_dushenski) mentioned talmud yet

19:15:49 ascii_butugychag: which was really the original stone age vtron.

19:15:54 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: Going talmud instead of western church doesn't shit on luke

19:16:17 BingoBoingo: Or eastern church

19:16:21 BingoBoingo: Or whatevs

19:16:29 ascii_butugychag: i assume that everybody here has at least seen a page of talmud ?

19:16:32 ascii_butugychag: just the visuals

19:16:37 danielpbarron: i don't get it; you want me to write a bible or something?

19:17:03 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: A guide to bilical/religious terms useful for understanding software

19:17:38 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: Never seen talmud in the flesh but pulled my chumash off shelf jsut now to make sure still here

19:18:58 danielpbarron: what like "so and so patch begag such and such patch" ?

19:19:03 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: But consider v or a piece of v software like Bitcoind as a bible analogue. What language describes things that go around a bible.

19:19:04 danielpbarron: begat even

19:19:27 danielpbarron: greek hebrew aramaic?

19:19:29 BingoBoingo: Like mailing list as concordance to v chain

19:19:37 BingoBoingo: what are logs

19:19:47 danielpbarron: i don't dig concordance

19:20:04 danielpbarron: i'm kinda a scripture-onlyist

19:20:12 BingoBoingo: Useful for finding and digging, even if not itself dug

19:21:45 BingoBoingo: Scripture only is useful for the already attuned, but for people seeking attunement, accessory texts offer introduction guidance, and hopefully attunement with the canon.

19:21:54 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: danielpbarron's thing got perma-pressed and regenesised !!

19:22:08 ascii_butugychag: as in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375228

19:22:08 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 15:59:27; ascii_butugychag: after a certain point, there oughta be a new genesis.

19:22:22 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: lol

19:22:47 danielpbarron: i would say that people seeking attunement should read the source and not the notes scribbled in the margins

19:22:53 BingoBoingo: aha

19:24:10 danielpbarron: the closest thing to notes that i recommend are those atruechurch articles and his writing is mostly just comparing what false teachers say to what the Bible says, complete with many references

19:24:14 BingoBoingo: Mebbe this really is more of a jew project for pete_dushenski or another member of the tribe

19:24:31 BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> the closest thing to notes that i recommend are those atruechurch articles and his writing is mostly just comparing what false teachers say to what the Bible says, complete with many references << AHA, but what is this?

19:25:18 ascii_butugychag: the 'talmudic' view (of which my summary is by no means an expert one) is that the margin notes are like a map of a mine field

19:25:28 ascii_butugychag: yes, the only CONCLUSIVE guide to the mine field is... the ~blam~

19:25:39 ascii_butugychag: but you would ideally like to have another, 'unauthoritative' guide.

19:25:42 ascii_butugychag: before you walk in.

19:26:37 ascii_butugychag: and yes, the ultimate city fire code is your own, screaming, flaming half-corpse

19:26:42 ascii_butugychag: but most people... etc, etc.

19:28:26 BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> but you would ideally like to have another, 'unauthoritative' guide. << Model repeated mostly successfully with other texts. i.e. relationship between the Big Book and 12&12

19:28:40 ascii_butugychag: wai wut

19:28:56 ascii_butugychag: i have no idea what these are

19:29:10 danielpbarron: if you want to talk about V like you would talk about the Bible, you need hooks to point to (like chapter verse). so in V terms is this signed patch and line number or something?

19:29:39 ascii_butugychag: danielpbarron: this is a mega-point, and my original was to have a wwwtronic thing where you could point to an individual place in timespace

19:29:51 ascii_butugychag: (line l of file f of pressing p)

19:30:00 ascii_butugychag: we still do not, afaik, have this

19:30:06 BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> i have no idea what these are << Texts from my new cult teaching me sobriety.

19:30:08 ascii_butugychag: but it is not difficult to understand what it must look like

19:30:25 ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: for some reason i thought it was built on generic evangelical something-or-other

19:30:28 ascii_butugychag: at least on paper

19:30:37 danielpbarron: yes, and when you say l:f:p and I look it up, me must be looking at exactly the same code

19:30:43 ascii_butugychag: danielpbarron: aha!

19:30:52 ascii_butugychag: this is not negotiable.

19:30:58 jurov: just use three word codes. that would be defo talmudic

19:31:15 danielpbarron: heh that means V could grow to the size of planet earth

19:31:26 ascii_butugychag: l0l

19:32:15 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: It's build on a generic thing forked and genericized from evangelical group refugees. Influenced heavily by William James. WHo would have though studying "Classic American Philosophy" would have been useful for understanding anything.

19:32:56 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375260 << i do not want this

19:32:56 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 16:10:17; ascii_butugychag: has anyone a position on whether patches oughta be broken into atoms ?

19:33:43 ben_vulpes: (also 'dark age blood sports' lol)

19:34:11 BingoBoingo: "Classic American Philosophy" consists of Peirce who was cotemporaneous with James and did some interesting logic stuff. James who wrote the best American rebuttal to Hegel. Dewey who ruined everyhting with socialism.

19:34:56 ben_vulpes: http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20160113/FREE/301179999/socially-conscious-investing-gets-a-boost-from-the-dol-fiduciary-rule << gotta love how the department of labor is somehow involved in fiduciary rule-setting

19:34:57 assbot: Socially-conscious investing gets a boost from the DOL fiduciary rule ... ( http://bit.ly/1RPFWgU )

19:35:56 BingoBoingo: Then there's the black American philosophers who were largely discarded by socialists and comoonity organizers.

19:36:55 mircea_popescu: ^

19:37:16 mircea_popescu: ironically enough, nobody is such an enemy of black achievement as the political party using color as a lever on the public treasury.

19:37:34 BingoBoingo: Seriously lots of great stuff from Black American philosphers until About 1890

19:38:43 BingoBoingo: America's chance of having a philosophical tradition though died between 1910 and 1920 when James died, Dewey was lionized, and everyone treated James as fringe religious thinker and not rebuttal of the Hegelian.

19:39:06 mircea_popescu: dewey of all people.

19:39:51 BingoBoingo: Not Melvil the library Dewey, John the Original Obama Dewey

19:40:12 BingoBoingo: Also distinct from the Dewey defeated by Truman

19:41:07 mircea_popescu: yes yes.

19:41:15 PeterL: Was that the original "called the election too early", or was there one before taht?

19:41:16 BingoBoingo: me has recently started rereading school he drank and pissed out of brain with fresh eye to discarding the retarded stuff.

19:41:33 BingoBoingo: Peter_L yes, in Union Station

19:43:49 PeterL: <danielpbarron> yes, and when you say l:f:p and I look it up, me must be looking at exactly the same code << shouldn't chapter/verse be pressing:file:line ?

19:45:18 PeterL: but bible sufferes from not having v, so who knows who added which parts

19:45:31 mod6: !up ascii_butugychag

19:47:03 danielpbarron: PeterL, God said He'd preserve His word and I believe Him

19:47:11 jurov: PeterL: never late to v-ify

19:47:22 PeterL: did he pgp sign that statement?

19:47:44 danielpbarron: what good is a pgp from God? He can phuctor all keys

19:47:57 PeterL: lol

19:49:12 mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0AEEMJB.txt

19:49:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RPH2Jn )

19:49:15 deedbot-: accepted: 1

19:49:18 mircea_popescu: #b-a, where history's written.

19:50:09 BingoBoingo: For people who have time, William James on Hegel http://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/jnitrous.html

19:50:55 ben_vulpes: what is this patch to disable asics?

19:51:22 ben_vulpes: ahaha and mircea_popescu is finally dating missives with block heights

19:51:42 mircea_popescu: :)

19:52:04 ben_vulpes: imho, should really read "block height 6666666"

19:52:15 ben_vulpes: but your screeds, your dating notation boss

19:52:53 mircea_popescu: waiot wut

19:53:49 ben_vulpes: s/Bitcoin blockchain/Bitcoin blockheight/

19:53:55 ben_vulpes: or even just block

19:53:57 ben_vulpes: semantics

19:54:00 ben_vulpes: disregard

19:56:04 mircea_popescu: i suppose blockheight with no almohadilla is a better notation

19:57:00 BingoBoingo: Getting high never changes: "My conclusion is that the togetherness of things in a common world, the law of sharing, of which I have said so much, may, when perceived, engender a very powerful emotion; that Hegel was so unusually susceptible to this emotion throughout his life that its gratification became his supreme end, and made him tolerably unscrupulous as to means he employed; that indifferentism is the true outcome of every

19:57:00 BingoBoingo: view of the world which make infinity and continuity to be its sessence, and that pessimistic or optimistic attitudes pertain to the mere accidental subjectivity of the moment; finally, that the identification of contradictories, so far from being the self-developing process which Hegel supposes, is really a self-consuming process, passing from the less to the more abstract, and terminating either in a laugh at the ultimate nothi

19:57:04 BingoBoingo: ngness, or in a mood of vertiginous amazement at a meaningless infinity."

19:57:05 mod6: January the 18th 2014

19:57:06 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

19:57:07 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 387.0, Best ask: 387.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 387.24, 24 hour volume: 21043.0427483, 24 hour low: 375.01, 24 hour high: 390.0, 24 hour vwap: None

19:57:20 mircea_popescu: fun fact : # comes from a quick scribble of lb, which comes from libra pondo

19:58:03 mod6: mircea_popescu: see prev. comment

19:59:19 mircea_popescu: hm ?

20:00:11 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: oblig: http://www.lawrencesupino.com/letter.html

20:00:12 assbot: The Art of Lawrence Supino-Zaporozhian Cossacks of Ukraine Writing a Mocking Letter in Reply to the Sultan of Turkey ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBQ4Dn )

20:00:33 ascii_butugychag: or hm, that's some lamer's copy

20:00:47 mircea_popescu: heh

20:00:48 ascii_butugychag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Repin_Cossacks.jpg

20:00:49 assbot: File:Repin Cossacks.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBQ9qF )

20:00:50 ascii_butugychag: ^ the original

20:01:01 mircea_popescu: !s cossacks

20:01:02 assbot: 6 results for 'cossacks' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cossacks

20:01:08 mircea_popescu: there they be.

20:03:24 mircea_popescu: jurov you know what they mean by textuality, intertextuality and all that jazz ?

20:04:41 mircea_popescu: (not in the sense that the post-structuralist blabla is even indicative, nor that the original structuralist view dispositive. but even in a much more restrained, conservative view, the concept carries water.)

20:06:54 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hm ? <+mircea_popescu> deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0AEEMJB.txt <+mod6> January the 18th 2014

20:06:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RPH2Jn )

20:07:30 mircea_popescu: (indicative and dispositive are used here, ftr, as classical legal concepts. something's indicative if it contains or procures a means to evaluate the truth of a claim. something's dispositive if it is the means to resolve a claim.)

20:07:46 mircea_popescu: ahahaha i signed it as 2014 ?

20:07:52 mod6: :D

20:08:02 mircea_popescu: lol i guess this shows just how unreliable the non-blockchgain timestamp is

20:08:05 mod6: time doesn't matter anyway, only the block height matters

20:08:11 mircea_popescu: either that or i had the thing lying around on my hdd for two years to the day now

20:08:19 mod6: haha, ya

20:09:15 ascii_butugychag: lucky mircea_popescu isn't a sapper !

20:09:43 mircea_popescu: if i were a sapper i'd have long ago moved on to relaxing by the maker's pool.

20:09:45 jurov: mircea_popescu: no

20:10:25 mircea_popescu: jurov well if you're bored you can read up on literary theory. if not, your question can't really be answered.

20:11:10 mircea_popescu: the saussure - derrirda debate prolly a good starting point.

20:11:54 mircea_popescu: for your sins you'll have to brush almost as much crud off all that stuff as anyone trying to use linux today.

20:14:58 *: mircea_popescu just realised we're actually in danger of falling into a unified theory of everything with all this, and nobody'll even understand it.

20:15:08 jurov: "true cuz God said so"

20:15:14 mircea_popescu: hm ?

20:15:26 jurov: it will end up like ^

20:15:48 mircea_popescu: nah it'll end up like "true because there in principle can't exist a system in which you could formulate a contradiction".

20:16:01 BingoBoingo: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3NC67M7.txt

20:16:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBRJcg )

20:16:03 deedbot-: accepted: 1

20:16:04 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

20:16:08 mircea_popescu: people love to view the field of expression as unfinite. then again, they loved to see the west the same way.

20:16:35 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo fuck you, hegel would totally kick your boy's butt.

20:17:37 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Perhaps historical hegel would. Hegel as used by derps that spz popular socialist conception of hegel can eat a dick.

20:17:47 mircea_popescu: oh that. no contest.

20:17:59 mircea_popescu: poor guy would have an aneurism.

20:18:12 mircea_popescu: most likely go ask for an audience with hitler to complain.

20:18:40 BingoBoingo: For all practical purposes actual historical Hegel is irrelevant to discussions of popular hegelianism

20:18:59 mircea_popescu: "was a great man"

20:19:04 mircea_popescu: "fought the devils"

20:19:21 mircea_popescu: there's a delicious mockery of this, century+old. sadly, in romanian,

20:20:08 BingoBoingo: aha

20:21:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the United States "Hegelianism" was for time a derpy populist movement among the class that would birth Clitler. These are the people who would latch on to John Dewey.

20:21:41 mircea_popescu: aha

20:21:44 BingoBoingo: deeding was a response to https://archive.is/70Zz9

20:21:45 assbot: 2016 Could Be Bitcoin's Year If We Help It - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1JRsjL0 )

20:22:11 BingoBoingo: Hegelianism though refers to a specific Anglophone phenomenon unrelated to actual Hegel

20:23:36 *: BingoBoingo might have to fire up the not-Qntra blogotron this week to go over this

20:25:08 mircea_popescu: fancy that one!

20:25:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd read.

20:27:27 ascii_butugychag: in other nyooz, HOLY SHIT is 'flycheck' (the supposed replacement, pushed everywhere one meets shithub types, for 'flymake') a piece of shit !!

20:27:35 BingoBoingo: It's a clear candidate for not Qntra as writing it would be for my personal development rather than reporting of Bitcoin news. Because deep intellectual failings presented by other outlets is not news in itself

20:27:44 ascii_butugychag: emacs 24 on mac BREAKS flymake

20:28:07 ascii_butugychag: which is THE standard compile-and-markup-your-window-with-errors-and-warnings widget for emacs

20:28:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375566 << "read the code" huh.

20:28:33 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:22:47; danielpbarron: i would say that people seeking attunement should read the source and not the notes scribbled in the margins

20:28:42 ascii_butugychag: flymake was very simple, it just ran your makefile, which was required to have a check-syntax line in it (see, e.g., my block extractor program for example)

20:28:51 ascii_butugychag: as such it did not care what cpu you built for, etc

20:28:57 ascii_butugychag: cray, nintendo, etc

20:29:00 ascii_butugychag: so long as you had gnumake

20:29:13 ascii_butugychag: whereas 'flycheck' IGNORES makefiles

20:29:24 BingoBoingo: First notable change in the wake of Silbert/Selkis Coindesk takeover: "currently only two nascent bitcoin platforms worth watching in 2016: Coinbase and 21 Inc" https://archive.is/MWlK3

20:29:25 assbot: 5 Big Questions for Bitcoin in 2016 - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBSTVf )

20:29:30 BingoBoingo: !up drnet

20:29:31 mircea_popescu: !up drnet

20:29:36 ascii_butugychag: and so you have to set custom environment variables to set include paths, or gcc flags, etc

20:29:44 ascii_butugychag: and SATAN HELP YOU if you have clang on your machine

20:29:47 ascii_butugychag: it will INSIST on using it.

20:30:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i recall the "currently only bitcoinica and blabla" expert opinions of years past. anyone old enough to remember shtylman, the genius-boy-expert with a funny hat of 2013 ?

20:30:32 mircea_popescu: the one that was going to save us through his boyish good looks and vctron smarts ?

20:30:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think that was maye 2012

20:30:40 mircea_popescu: was it ?

20:30:44 mircea_popescu: perhaps it was huh.

20:30:49 BingoBoingo: yeah, 2013 I would have seen it

20:31:07 mircea_popescu: epic interview, i think the last one too, on the tv show of that guy with the camera in demo mode

20:31:08 ascii_butugychag: https://github.com/flycheck/flycheck/blob/master/flycheck.el#L5768 << example of what i meant

20:31:16 mircea_popescu: bruce fagwith or what was his name.

20:31:24 ascii_butugychag: i am only speaking of this here because it turns out to be a PERFECT example of poetteringization

20:31:31 ascii_butugychag: encountered by surprise in something i rely on every day

20:31:48 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag and i only don't say anything because i'm rahter unsurprised.

20:31:54 ascii_butugychag: so lo and behold i find, https://github.com/flycheck/flycheck/issues/207

20:31:55 assbot: Allow arbitrary commandline arguments for the clang checker · Issue #207 · flycheck/flycheck · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBT96p )

20:32:08 ascii_butugychag: '@sethfowler I won't allow arbitrary command lines for syntax checkers. ... Tell me, which concrete flags you need, and I'll add corresponding options.'

20:32:11 ascii_butugychag: (author)

20:32:32 ascii_butugychag: and i go to the site, and guess what i see,

20:32:33 ascii_butugychag: http://www.flycheck.org/conduct.html

20:32:34 assbot: Flycheck Code of Conduct — Flycheck ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBTbv9 )

20:33:01 ascii_butugychag: bubonic derplague in full bloom !!

20:33:32 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag guy seems willing to accomodate tho

20:33:33 BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: Interested in doing a rant for Qntra on the "code of conduct" phenomenon and poetteringization?

20:33:49 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: aha, he will put in my individual custom include paths, sure thing

20:34:04 mircea_popescu: seems there's a -std= added for instance


20:34:17 mircea_popescu: and they end up adding -include ?

20:34:20 mircea_popescu: yeah well.

20:34:22 ascii_butugychag: i develop for 5 different cpus.

20:34:24 BingoBoingo: !b 6

20:34:24 assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MC33E6.txt )

20:34:39 mircea_popescu: Adapted from the Rust Code of Conduct.

20:34:39 mircea_popescu: Copyright (c) 2015 Sebastian Wiesner and Flycheck contributors

20:34:39 mircea_popescu: Copyright (c) 2014 The Rust Project Developers

20:34:40 mircea_popescu: lol

20:34:46 mircea_popescu: what's rust again ?

20:34:49 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: you know this fella?

20:34:54 mircea_popescu: nope.

20:35:00 BingoBoingo: Rust is Mozilla's "systems programming" language

20:35:09 mircea_popescu: "And if someone takes issue with something you said or did, resist the urge to be defensive. Just stop doing what it was they complained about and apologize. Even if you feel you were misinterpreted or unfairly accused, chances are good there was something you could have communicated better ? remember that it?s your responsibility to make your fellow Flycheck people comfortable."

20:35:13 mircea_popescu: ahahahaha holy shit.

20:35:20 ascii_butugychag: what i want to know is how this became a standard

20:35:23 mircea_popescu: flycheck is hereby banned from anywhere

20:35:30 mircea_popescu: don't fucking include it, i will negrate you.

20:35:40 ascii_butugychag: and emacs was allowed to decay to the point where the tool that ACTUALLY FUCKING WORKS AND IS 100 LINES AND NEVER EVER BREAKS is now broken

20:36:08 ascii_butugychag: i spent all day trying to get this piece of not-even-qualified-to-be-shit to run

20:36:21 ascii_butugychag: then realized that it is ~intrinsically~ unusable for any serious project

20:36:36 mircea_popescu: foofoos an feefees are the responsibility of the foofoo-feefeer and his alone what the fuck already.

20:36:38 ascii_butugychag: then realized that the motherfucker prolly gets away with this because.. makefiles are 'out of fashion' !

20:36:55 ascii_butugychag: one is, i suspect, supposed to use some proprietary build system, such as crapple's

20:37:00 ascii_butugychag: unless you're a terrorist.

20:37:57 mircea_popescu: i wish to know what other definition for immaturity can be had, than a subjective expectations of others to accommodate your feelings.

20:38:04 ascii_butugychag: https://github.com/flycheck/flycheck/blob/master/flycheck.el#L5807 << BEHOLD, all of the things that are supposed to be gcc flags, ENUMERATED

20:38:09 assbot: flycheck/flycheck.el at master · flycheck/flycheck · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JdoW0R )

20:38:13 mircea_popescu: if you feel hurt in any way to any degree by anything you read - the problem is you. fix yourself.

20:38:15 ascii_butugychag: imagine if your car came with a list of all possible streets it can make left turns into

20:38:23 ascii_butugychag: and if your street is not on this list, shuddup and die.

20:38:33 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i fully expect this is where us car production is headed.

20:38:45 mircea_popescu: "you don't buy a car - you merely acquire the right to transport yourself according to the tos etc".

20:38:48 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: aha. this is only not yet achieved for purely technical reasons.

20:38:53 mircea_popescu: gotta give itinerary at dealership

20:39:15 ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell ben_vulpes any idea why 'flymake' on mac never finds makefiles ?

20:39:15 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:39:51 ascii_butugychag: oh and i suppose for completeness of this thread i oughta mention one other thing

20:40:01 ascii_butugychag: check out http://www.flycheck.org/manual/latest/Installation.html#Installation

20:40:02 assbot: Flycheck: Installation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jdpbt4 )

20:40:04 mircea_popescu: o look, script finally terminated. now here's 6gb worth of okcupid profiles including as best as i can discern all females to sift through.

20:40:07 ascii_butugychag: it wants to load from the net !!

20:40:15 ascii_butugychag: with fashionable ! dependencies !

20:40:21 mircea_popescu: lol

20:40:54 ascii_butugychag: such as:

20:40:54 ascii_butugychag: https://github.com/magnars/dash.el

20:40:56 assbot: magnars/dash.el: A modern list library for ... - GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBU1rJ )

20:41:01 mircea_popescu: :D

20:41:03 mircea_popescu: MODERN!

20:41:03 ascii_butugychag: 'A modern list library for Emacs'

20:41:19 mircea_popescu: schmucks.

20:41:22 ascii_butugychag: https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/let-alist.html

20:41:37 ascii_butugychag: and, lastly, https://github.com/NicolasPetton/seq.el

20:41:38 assbot: NicolasPetton/seq.el - Emacs Lisp - GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBU3A1 )

20:41:59 ascii_butugychag: and these all, at least if you use the recommended installer (no other instructions are provided), loaded from the net straight

20:42:03 ascii_butugychag: without anything like pgp sigs, etc

20:42:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375582 << not for any fundamental reason tho

20:42:09 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:29:51; ascii_butugychag: (line l of file f of pressing p)

20:42:36 ascii_butugychag: i was going to write an actual blog post about the flycheck thing

20:42:38 ascii_butugychag: but could not do it

20:42:46 ascii_butugychag: just made me ill.

20:43:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375591 << i lollered.

20:43:55 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:30:58; jurov: just use three word codes. that would be defo talmudic

20:44:37 mircea_popescu: can they be capitalized so we're as cool as NSA and early LISP ? MECHANICGIRAFFESORBET

20:45:11 mircea_popescu: TERTIARYMINTGLASS

20:45:34 ascii_butugychag: iirc somebody wrote a very spiffy generator for these.

20:45:44 mircea_popescu: SQUIRRELPREPUCEDELUGE

20:45:57 ascii_butugychag: urgh

20:46:12 mircea_popescu: shut up and swim like a man!

20:46:17 *: ascii_butugychag swims.

20:46:27 mircea_popescu: lol he drowned.

20:46:30 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag

20:46:37 ascii_butugychag: been swimming in precisely it, all day, even...

20:46:52 mircea_popescu: you know the "break's over, head down" joke ?

20:47:09 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375677 << and how is this different from "undecidable statement"?

20:47:09 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 20:15:48; mircea_popescu: nah it'll end up like "true because there in principle can't exist a system in which you could formulate a contradiction".

20:47:38 mircea_popescu: jurov an undecidable statement is one for which it is not known if an invalidating case exists.

20:47:47 mircea_popescu: if it is known an invalidating case can't exist this implies truth.

20:47:50 jurov: no

20:47:56 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: everybody knows it i think

20:48:01 ascii_butugychag: with the programmer in hell.

20:48:05 mircea_popescu: aha

20:48:10 jurov: undecidable statement is proven to not have discoverable answer

20:48:20 mircea_popescu: jurov this is still not the same.

20:51:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375595 << i think it's bad also. not merely the sports thing, but, it offends the will of the author.

20:51:15 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:32:56; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375260 << i do not want this

20:51:54 mircea_popescu: if he wanted to make two patches, he would have. if you wish to invalidate his call, make the two fucking patches and sign them. goes right back to the "implicit trust" machinery thing.

20:54:11 ascii_butugychag: i'm persuaded.

20:54:21 jurov: mircea_popescu: still, then it would be the first successful ever of non-axiomatic proof of nonexistence

20:54:23 ascii_butugychag: sorta why i didn't cut'em up to begin with

20:54:29 mircea_popescu: jurov yes.

20:54:58 mircea_popescu: i did say it's scandalous. this is no small part of why.

20:58:34 ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: it's haskell, who knows or cares

20:58:48 ben_vulpes: it's your gulagbox, who knows or cares

20:58:50 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: holy shit wat??!

20:58:55 ben_vulpes: flycheck?

20:59:03 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: i was asking about ~flymake~

20:59:06 ben_vulpes: oh

20:59:11 ascii_butugychag: y'know, the thing that people actually use

20:59:14 ascii_butugychag: and is built into emacs

20:59:17 ben_vulpes: ah

20:59:19 ascii_butugychag: not the heathen 'alternative'

20:59:27 ben_vulpes: no idear

20:59:33 ascii_butugychag: how the fuq do you even program

20:59:38 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag if you ask it, flymake also built into emacs 25.

20:59:45 ascii_butugychag: it is

20:59:53 mircea_popescu: right.

20:59:58 mircea_popescu: uh i mean flycheck

20:59:59 ascii_butugychag: but it appears to be broken on crapple os 10.10 and above.

21:00:01 ascii_butugychag: mno

21:00:06 ascii_butugychag: flycheck is built into nothing.

21:00:15 ascii_butugychag: rms did not accept it into emacs tree.

21:00:24 mircea_popescu: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Flycheck ?

21:00:25 assbot: EmacsWiki: Flycheck ... ( http://bit.ly/1JdrHQ1 )

21:00:30 ascii_butugychag: victim^H^H^H^H^user has to install.

21:00:54 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: http://www.flycheck.org

21:00:55 assbot: Syntax checking for GNU Emacs — Flycheck ... ( http://bit.ly/1JdrKLJ )

21:01:11 ascii_butugychag: perpetrator's site.

21:01:26 ben_vulpes: lol mircea_popescu is using a box with ready access to emacs 25?!

21:01:45 ascii_butugychag: ~flymake~ comes with emacs.

21:02:00 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> uh i mean flycheck

21:03:00 ascii_butugychag: flycheck does not come with emacs and probably will not until rms dies.

21:03:23 ascii_butugychag: (at which point it will likely be renamed poetteringmacs and ~will~ ship with flycheck.)

21:03:24 ben_vulpes: i'm not arguing that

21:04:09 mircea_popescu: "Since this library is in Emacs 25, contributors must have signed the Emacs Copyright assignment." << had remanence from seq-el.

21:04:15 mircea_popescu: a sequella so to speak

21:05:04 ascii_butugychag: MODERN lists !

21:05:06 ascii_butugychag: sequences !

21:05:08 ascii_butugychag: fuckwits

21:05:22 ascii_butugychag: when do we get MODERN!!1111111 arithmetic!?

21:05:31 mircea_popescu: from DoL soon enough.

21:05:58 ben_vulpes: department of lolz

21:06:07 ascii_butugychag: wanna know the funny part ?

21:06:15 mircea_popescu: department of lolz and your increased 50g pbj rations.

21:06:15 ben_vulpes: sure

21:06:21 ascii_butugychag: i ASKED FOR this machine.

21:06:40 ascii_butugychag: because the alternative, the only alternative, was... well, the last machine

21:07:07 mircea_popescu: alf should star in a modern married with children, "i work on computers for a living"

21:07:17 ascii_butugychag: where it took me months to sort-of set things up, and wrangle gentoo, and still ended up with not-quite-working video etc

21:07:21 ascii_butugychag: and no suspend mode

21:07:22 mircea_popescu: "and it's not as bad as you think"

21:07:43 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: unfortunately i don't get the reference

21:07:56 mircea_popescu: there's this sitcom about a guy with an idle wife.

21:08:19 ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: this is what you get for trying to do s33r1ous wurk! on a portable

21:08:37 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: there is no escape from portable.

21:08:38 ascii_butugychag: none.

21:08:46 ben_vulpes: dirigible!

21:08:52 mircea_popescu: really strong friend ?

21:08:56 ben_vulpes: and i suppose broomstick.

21:09:01 ascii_butugychag: only broomstick.

21:09:07 ascii_butugychag: or nagant, i suppose.

21:09:15 ben_vulpes: no but why must you have the computing device with you?

21:09:20 mircea_popescu: my bitchez can benchpress me! get some to carry your desktop!!1

21:09:25 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: to ever get to work remotely ?

21:09:46 ben_vulpes: is this for the /chance/ to do so or the /promise/ to do so?

21:09:57 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag can't you just mount a proper computer somehwere and...uhh... ssh into it ? or i guess telnet lol.

21:10:12 ben_vulpes: if chance, it's a poor gamble. if it's a promise, why can't they buy a box for your haus?

21:10:14 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: doesn't work so great with multiple gigantic displays

21:10:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag yes, it does. let me do some math for you.

21:10:35 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: korporate kulture

21:10:47 mircea_popescu: one hour of employee time, admitting you get paid $100, costs your employer ~250 or so.

21:11:08 mircea_popescu: the choice between whipping up ten desktops in fixed positions and having you spend a week dicking around with shittops should be obvious,

21:11:13 mircea_popescu: to the accountants if no one else.

21:11:16 ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: did not answer the question.

21:11:55 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375384 << top kek

21:11:55 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 16:47:45; punkman: uppercase verbs for #b-a RFC: MUST, MUST NOT, FUCK YOU

21:12:20 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: here on my planet, none of this has anything to do with people getting things actually done

21:12:25 ascii_butugychag: and everything to do with ceremony

21:12:34 mircea_popescu: your planet sucks.

21:12:39 ascii_butugychag: nyooz at 11!11111

21:14:11 ascii_butugychag: every slave gets ONE plough^H^H^H^H^Hcomputer.

21:15:18 ben_vulpes: i do not understand this hair shirt buying into of corporate culture

21:15:30 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: what is the alternative ?

21:15:45 ascii_butugychag: shoot yourself in the head every morning until you wake up as a mircea_popescu ?

21:15:46 ben_vulpes: not doing dumb shit!

21:15:56 ben_vulpes: actually talking to managers

21:16:04 mircea_popescu: "doc, it hurts if i do this!"

21:16:25 ben_vulpes: dude programmers in america are the most spoiled group in terms of bennies and tolerance of absurd work behavior and yet you insist that you must conf0rm!

21:16:30 mircea_popescu: ^

21:16:34 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: i'm not a programmer.

21:16:36 mircea_popescu: not even whores.

21:16:52 ben_vulpes: what pray tell are you in your bosses eyes

21:16:57 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

21:17:00 ben_vulpes: not your real true self

21:17:09 mircea_popescu: this is where we find out alf has been working as party organizer all these years.

21:17:28 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> dude programmers in america are the most spoiled group in terms of bennies and tolerance of absurd work behavior and yet you insist that you must conf0rm! << for sure.

21:17:39 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: no, i meant literally, i work as something somewhat else

21:17:51 ben_vulpes: i am asking what precisely that is in your bosses eyes

21:18:02 ben_vulpes: because if you put it to writing it is going to read as "programmer"

21:18:23 mod6: "unprogrammer"

21:18:23 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: boss thinks i'm a... mathematician

21:18:44 mircea_popescu: he works for something that requires computers but is not a computerist thing! alf is that fabulous creature from ro folklore, "half man riding half a limp rabbit"

21:18:48 ascii_butugychag: tax declaration reads 'sr research engineer' (what this means, nobody knows)

21:18:53 trinque: and "fuck you I wont work on this shit" passes for a guy moving rectangles around in a web browser.

21:18:58 mircea_popescu: only gets one half at a time of all things. depending on context, the one or the other half.

21:19:05 trinque: and he gets 700 bucks to put his ass on too

21:19:47 ascii_butugychag: and now i'm perplexed

21:20:21 mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/x8JjF#selection-175.451-175.501 << sauce. afaik this is actually original

21:20:22 assbot: Aleodor împărat - Wikisource ... ( http://bit.ly/1KnBEFq )

21:20:38 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: the funny part is that technically it does not require computer. i am free to attempt the project with a pencil.

21:20:44 ascii_butugychag: and just might, soon enough, at this rate.

21:20:48 mircea_popescu: lol

21:20:54 mircea_popescu: a sitting pencil or a writing pencil ?

21:21:04 ascii_butugychag: a breaking in frustration pencil.

21:21:05 BingoBoingo: trinque: Is http://deedbot.org/ behind or are deeds not being blockchained?

21:21:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UxGNEF )

21:21:12 trinque: it is indeed behind

21:21:25 trinque: bout 10 blox

21:21:30 mod6: deedbot running trb?

21:21:43 trinque: not yet; I have one syncing that is at roughly 350k

21:22:04 mod6: tits man

21:23:55 BingoBoingo: !s deedbot:

21:23:56 assbot: : http://s.b-a.link/?q=deedbot%3A

21:24:37 mircea_popescu: uh

21:25:01 BingoBoingo: !s deedbot

21:25:01 assbot: 2575 results for 'deedbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=deedbot

21:25:09 BingoBoingo: apparently doesn't like colon

21:25:19 trinque: he's got a dash, deedbot-

21:25:23 BingoBoingo: ah

21:25:43 trinque: though I have snagged "deedbot" too; new version will join under that before long

21:39:54 ben_vulpes: guy really insists on his particular brand of suffering

21:40:00 ben_vulpes: wb to the states, mthreat :D

21:40:33 ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: i think he always connected from a bounce box in usa

21:40:37 ascii_butugychag: (no idea why, ask him)

21:44:42 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:44:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag he couldn't afford a laptop.

21:45:05 ascii_butugychag: wai wasn't mthreat a political prisoner in usa ?

21:45:10 ascii_butugychag: why would he come back

21:46:06 mircea_popescu: huh ?

21:46:26 ascii_butugychag: possibly i have names mixed up, nm

21:46:58 mircea_popescu: i was just poking fun at your "must have laptop to remotely" thing

21:49:27 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

21:51:14 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/identity-crisis-is-me.png

21:51:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1f36Z )

21:51:24 mircea_popescu: all that's left is for me to hope that one day i might be as cool as myself.

21:52:24 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375976 <<< >.<

21:52:24 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 21:51:14; mircea_popescu: in other lulz, http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/identity-crisis-is-me.png

21:52:34 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: recall the thread (i am having trouble digging it up) where i explained why just about nobody in usaschwitz gets to be 100% remote ?

21:53:00 mircea_popescu: aha

21:53:07 ascii_butugychag: (it is, really, to keep people from 'infidelity', collecting multiple salaries)

21:53:38 ascii_butugychag: also to keep'em from taking their bezzle and turning it into turkeys in paraguay

21:53:45 ascii_butugychag: we did this thread. where is it?!

21:53:54 mircea_popescu: doesn't matter, ima keep pushing!

21:55:10 ascii_butugychag: incidentally, your local mains power company will also shit bricks if you have serious inductive loads in your house (shifts phase, interferes with their metering)

21:55:15 ascii_butugychag: sort of similar phenomenon

21:55:55 mircea_popescu: they couldn't care less / have nfi what anything is.

21:56:11 ascii_butugychag: try it.

21:56:21 mircea_popescu: i have.

21:56:56 mircea_popescu: i suppose i should take a pic of the meters for your amusement. they look like they were exported from the su, cca 1930.

21:57:02 ascii_butugychag: at any rate it will look INDISTINGUISHABLE from a bypassed meter and in most countries this leads to 'problemz'

21:57:22 ascii_butugychag: but i can't speak for mircea_popescu's orcs, aha.

21:57:23 mircea_popescu: yes, but in argentina public notary feels not one bit threatened by bypassing vat.

21:58:05 ascii_butugychag: i suspect it's a 'quod licet jovi..' situation

21:58:33 mircea_popescu: moreover, i paid 200 peso (~15 bucks) for 375 KWh burned.

21:58:42 mircea_popescu: this is less than half what it costs even in romania (major exporter)

21:58:53 mircea_popescu: at that price i doubt it's worth their time to even find out.

21:59:18 ascii_butugychag: anyway it was example.

21:59:31 mircea_popescu: yeah, just, happened to be the lulzy.

22:00:13 ascii_butugychag: and holy shit does emacs debugger suck balls.

22:02:49 mircea_popescu: shoulda gone with nano.

22:03:06 mod6: yeah, i used to be basically 100% remote. and it was awesome.

22:03:25 mircea_popescu: way of the future, imo.

22:03:48 mod6: totally. there is absolutely no reason for me to be sitting where i am right now.

22:04:20 mod6: these fuckin lollipops are bouncing up and down on exercise balls.

22:04:47 mircea_popescu: wait. wait what ?!

22:04:51 mod6: how do they expect men in three-piece suits to entertain the idea of bouncing on a fucking ball all day long.

22:05:33 mod6: instead of chairs they give you the option of sitting on a ball. i thought these balls were just for bending girls over on.

22:05:47 BingoBoingo: trinque: Are you sure deedbot- is only ~10 blocks behind? I'm not seeing any of today's deeds on the www

22:05:50 mod6: but apparently not. people sit on these things, and they bounce all day while they "work".

22:05:57 mircea_popescu: also why the fuck do people keep spelling impostor with an e. no latin where they live ?

22:06:09 BingoBoingo: ^ yes

22:06:21 mircea_popescu: mod6 oh! i thought you had a buncha lolis at your office doing ball yoga stuff.

22:06:46 mod6: yeah, these guys are lollies

22:06:51 mircea_popescu: lol

22:07:25 mod6: imagine a room full of early 20something guys on balls, and then ole mod6 in a suit with a look of disdain.

22:07:59 mod6: someday... shit is gonna be different.

22:08:06 trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm working on it; it was about 10 behind a while ago, getting worse

22:08:17 BingoBoingo: AH

22:09:03 trinque: I'm having it connect= to dulap to see if that helps the limp

22:10:53 mircea_popescu: this is pretty lol.

22:11:05 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

22:11:08 gribble: Current Blocks: 393926 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 1209 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

22:11:14 BingoBoingo: ;;nethash

22:11:14 gribble: 881949490.199

22:14:07 ascii_butugychag: the ball thing is supposed to keep you constantly writhing

22:14:14 ascii_butugychag: as in the old english torture of 'the room of little ease'

22:14:30 ascii_butugychag: we have something like that here, a few blokes sitting on what looks like upturned trash cans

22:14:40 mircea_popescu: isn't it supposed to be good for your back or something ?

22:14:49 ascii_butugychag: there's one in my office, using it as a footrest sometimes

22:15:04 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: somethinglikethat

22:15:15 BingoBoingo: It's good for developing back and core strength, but probably not so good to be used full time as chair substitute.

22:15:33 mircea_popescu: aha.

22:16:17 jurov: i have one too, good to occassionally exchange for chair. can't imagine whole day

22:17:17 jurov: lying on it with head hanging down causes exceptional relaxation useful for certain purposes

22:17:32 ascii_butugychag: soooo it turns out that "locate-dominating-file" is broken under emacs24 + recent crapple

22:17:33 mircea_popescu: girls love it for workout/yoga stuff

22:17:56 ascii_butugychag: am i LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE who noticed ??/

22:19:08 *: BingoBoingo has actually be considering getting one

22:21:18 jurov: i am currently trying emacs with evilmode and it goes in on my nerves, these layers upon layers

22:21:22 jurov: !up ascii_butugychag

22:21:30 shinohai: mod6 I need an ominous name for my node

22:22:05 jurov: ominous.b-a.link

22:22:24 mircea_popescu: scareaoshi ?

22:23:46 ascii_butugychag: kolyma.

22:23:53 BingoBoingo: shinohai: What interests do you have outside Bitcoin

22:24:18 mircea_popescu: Коще́й.b-a.link

22:25:25 shinohai: Reading. I still like old-fashioned books so I spend a lot of time in Library.

22:25:36 ascii_butugychag: l0l so easy to tell that mircea_popescu cut'n'pasted from pediwik

22:25:45 ascii_butugychag: see in ru we don't take shits on top of letterz.

22:26:33 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Most dreaded thing in library is MARC and assorted cataloguing nonsense

22:27:57 shinohai: I still like Newspapers too, so you can read NY Times without the paywall and adware nonsense.

22:28:57 mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i dun keep a non-sane kbd around so the only way to get stuff like the gullemets or kyrilix or such is to google.

22:31:31 ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i have never in my entire life touched a non-latin kbd

22:31:40 ascii_butugychag: (with possible exception of one odd jp kbd i have lying around)

22:31:49 ascii_butugychag: i use translit entry.

22:31:55 mircea_popescu: whassat ?

22:32:06 ascii_butugychag: http://translit.net << example

22:32:07 assbot: Транслит по-русски ... ( http://bit.ly/1nfZSwI )

22:32:09 ascii_butugychag: (needs js)

22:32:15 mircea_popescu: lolkthx.

22:32:30 ascii_butugychag: for those on lynx etc: it is a phonetic thing

22:32:59 ascii_butugychag: with a couple of exceptions, letters entirely missing, like ь

22:33:28 ascii_butugychag: these get mapped onto keys like q and [] etc

22:35:05 ascii_butugychag: in other nyoooz,

22:35:20 ascii_butugychag: 'flymake' (not flycheck!!11) ~will~ work if you use the copy that came with emacs 24.

22:35:27 ascii_butugychag: rather than a decade-old .el.

22:35:52 ascii_butugychag: for the possibly 3 other people on the planet who give half a fuck ^^^^

22:42:41 mircea_popescu: let's hope they're mostly womenz.

22:44:12 ascii_butugychag: well 1 i know is

22:44:17 ascii_butugychag: (i keep it as a pet)

22:46:48 mircea_popescu: good cuz otherwise what if it was a recessiv e gene!

22:48:14 ascii_butugychag: l0l

22:49:45 ascii_butugychag: sorta lulzy, how if i didn't have a decade-old turd sitting in ~/emacs/site-lisp, i would never have gone off the reservation and learned about the flycheck crud

22:50:07 ascii_butugychag: would have happily carried on not knowing about systemd also, if had not..... etc

22:51:24 mircea_popescu: aha

22:51:33 mircea_popescu: "but my son and my daughter

22:51:36 mircea_popescu: came out of the water

22:51:42 mircea_popescu: said papa, you've promised you'd play...

22:52:17 ascii_butugychag: where was this

22:52:42 mircea_popescu: and the night comes on

22:52:45 mircea_popescu: it's very cold...

22:52:56 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag

22:53:14 *: BingoBoingo waits for trinque and deedbot- to catch up so I can publish the news of the day

22:53:19 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB6qE1W5fUM

22:53:20 assbot: Leonard Cohen - Night Comes On (live 1985) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ng3LBB )

22:55:42 ascii_butugychag: ah.

22:56:07 mircea_popescu: amusingly the best american poetry is by a canadian dude.

23:23:45 pete_dushenski: so after dying overnight (logs if anyone cares: http://dpaste.com/2NNQG6Y.txt), tevye was treated to his first proper blackholing today (logs if anyone cares: http://dpaste.com/0ENVMK9.txt). a steady 20-40 blocks behind for the past 7 hours or so until i finally said fuck it and re-started. he's now happily chomping away and should be back up to full height shortly.

23:23:46 assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBZLSE )

23:23:47 assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBZM8W )

23:25:08 pete_dushenski: looked like bucephalus was stuck at one point earlier as well. and zoolag is consistently trailing too. (at least according to bitnodes)

23:25:17 pete_dushenski: tough day on the ol' relay network.

23:28:35 trinque: BingoBoingo: I shall ping ya.

23:31:04 pete_dushenski: relevant : http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-actual-state-of-the-bitcoin-network/

23:31:05 assbot: The actual state of the Bitcoin network on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OC0KC7 )

23:32:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62100 @ 0.00053099 = 32.9745 BTC [+] {2}

23:32:29 pete_dushenski: OMFGTGWKU << could anyone else not parse this ?

23:36:10 BingoBoingo: trinque: ty

23:36:29 *: BingoBoingo will have to change mentions of "today" to "yesterday"

23:37:46 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2016#1375896 << damn. can they deadlift 1.x bodyweight too ?

23:37:46 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 21:09:20; mircea_popescu: my bitchez can benchpress me! get some to carry your desktop!!1

23:39:33 *: pete_dushenski 's pb deadlift updated from 1.4x to 1.7x bw

23:39:58 pete_dushenski: because pantagruel. (what else ?)

23:43:11 mircea_popescu: so i just butchered the world's most idiotic computer case

23:43:25 mircea_popescu: you can not begin to comprehend this without pictures. the fucking power vent was actually UNDER the case.

23:44:31 pete_dushenski: lol who came up with that ? hp ?

23:44:39 mircea_popescu: kenji ro somesuch

23:45:47 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: cheers on the latest two articles. just when i was starting to think that the death of fraudsters credits had made you lazy... bam !

23:46:25 mircea_popescu: heh

23:58:14 pete_dushenski: too many logs, too little time. off to fiat bank. bbl.